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Splurge Monday’s TPS Report: Elbow Sleeve Dress

Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. St-John-Elbow-Sleeve-Dress A lot of St. John stuff is more of a miss than a hit for me, but I'm loving this elbow sleeve knit dress — the deep but narrow V looks perfect, and the notched insets look interesting without being fussy. All in all it looks like a flattering, flexible dress that can take you to work or beyond. It's $895 at Nordstrom. St. John Elbow Sleeve Dress Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-2)

Sales of note for 12.3.24 (lots of Cyber Monday deals extended, usually until 12/3 at midnight)

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

144 Comments

  1. Thank you for the early post!

    Can anyone recommend a moving company in the DC area? We’re moving from one downtown location to another. We don’t have much stuff, but a few items are heavy enough that I’d rather outsource (while still not paying an arm and a leg, hopefully). TIA!

  2. Pretty, but way out of my budget.

    How much do you all spend on clothes for work annually? How much of that would you say is necessary?

    1. I’d say about 1,000/year of that 700 is absolutely necessary. Necessary being things like replacing staples.

    2. Maybe $1000? But that’s for all clothes (business casual, so I don’t really have too much separation between work & casual), and not just work. I probably spend closer to $500, but would really love to be able to work my budget so that I can set aside more. I buy a lot of stuff at consignment, so I kind of treat my clothes as 1-2 year pieces. If I find a great top, I’ll buy it, but I won’t worry too much about its financial implications, given that I spend less than $10 on most, and generally am pretty picky when it comes to quality & style. Even if I buy something second-hand, I usually keep it (and wear the crap out of it) for a year or more.

    3. $3,000-$4,000 (Biglaw senior associate). Probably half of that is “necessary” – this year I needed a new suit because I gained weight, replacement of worn out shirts, etc. The rest is because I spend such a large percentage of my waking hours at work that I get bored with my wardrobe rather easily.

    4. I probably spend $2000 a year on clothing and accessories. I work in retail so it’s in front of me all the time. Also that makes $2000 more than that, ( discount) . I like St. John but always felt it was matronly, and I’m not young! I also always felt you need a whole St. John wardrobe, I don’t see it mixing and matching well with other clothes. Good thing though, the knit fabric can be blocked to accommodate weight loss or gain.

    5. I do not separate casual and work and to be honest, I am working on upgrading my casual clothing.
      I invest about 300 usd every month.
      This is a lot as it represents 10% of my income (not in US dollars) but I think it is important since I am trying to build a wardrobe of staples.
      This budget includes shoes and bags which I don’t buy often.
      I am right into that bringing joy purge and it is getting ugly. I do one section each weekend and I’m appalled at the things I find (some from high school). So a lot of purging and replacing in the next months

    6. If you google the name of this s*te and “clothing expenditure” you’ll find detailed responses on annual clothing budgets

    7. I’m in BigLaw, a senior associate. I spend about 2500 – 3500 K annually. That’s a pretty small percent of my salary so I feel comfortable with it. Most of my clothes are not necessary (i.e.: not replacements for anything), I just enjoy wearing them.

    8. $1K, probably only half of which is actually necessary. It’s fine for my income…but of course would be better off invested!

  3. My younger brother just got engaged over the weekend, which means that I’m am the last single sibling out of the 4 of us (as one of my friends helpfully pointed out when I told her about his engagement). I’m thrilled for my brother, but a small part of me feels a little sad for me because I am completely single at the moment. I’m in my early 30’s and have a great life with friends and family that I love, but I would like to have a partner to share it with. Advice on working through those feelings or commiseration welcome!

    1. Yay! Pricey Monday’s! I love pricey Monday’s and this Nordstrom’s dress, tho I am way too NOT svelte to buy this now, b/c I have been eateing Matza’s Non-Stop all weekend, and dad has been commenting all weekend on how big my tuchus has become! FOOEY!

      Also, as for the OP, yes, I am in the same boat, but do NOT feel bad. YOU are not married b/c you are DISERNING, like me, and are not about to marry just any schlub who want’s to play winkie chess with you. That is NOT why you went to school and became a profesional who read’s Corporete.

      No, you must say to yourself, I am Woman, I am strong, and I will find the RIGHT winkie to play chess with, b/c there are alot of schlub’s who will play chess, but onley a few that are worth playing chess with. Mom brought up Alan Sheketovits at the Seder, and I said that he was the dumb son, who when faced with the possiblity of marrying a sucessful lawyer, chose the bottel instead. My dad then agreed that he did NOT want a drunk for a son in law, but would only let his son-in-law drink 4 cups of wine on Passover. He looked at Ed, and I think he knows that Ed did bad by letting a stripper play with HIS winkie. Ed looked away. FOOEY!

      I have alot to do today. I have still NOT fully unboxed my stuff and Frank is not goeing to help either. FOOEY on him. The janitor on our floor is comeing into the office every day to ask question’s about if we like the place, but I think he is just comeing in to stare at me. FOOEY! I need a rich guy to do that! YAY!!!!

    2. I’m 38 and getting married for the first time in 2 months after a year long engagement. I’m not sure it helps, but the experience of getting engaged was very different than I imagined it. Frankly, I spent the first month or two absolutely terrified and unable to sleep. Getting engaged put our relationship under a microscope (a good thing, really, since marriage is a huge deal and not to be done lightly, but very, very stressful). In those first few weeks I really envied the freedom of my single friends (and, hey, I was single at your age too).

    3. I do (sort of) know the feeling. I don’t know that there’s much you can do about it except to appreciate the life that you do have and acknowledge feeling a little sad/lost about the things you don’t now have but wish you did.

      I’d just choose your mantra (this too shall pass, or it is what it is, or something else) and repeat it in your head as needed.

    4. I’ve felt similarly, when it seemed like all of my friends were getting engaged/married and I was left out in the cold. It’s different when it’s your siblings though. That must be really tough.

      I think it’s ok to acknowledge what you don’t have and that you feel sad about it but also make sure you’re appreciating the good things in your life. It’s also ok to feel kinda sad about this engagement, as long as you’re still supportive of your family.

      And if you decide you really want a partner, are you taking steps in your life to make sure that happens? Dating/putting yourself out there?

      Good luck – this is a hard place to be.

    5. No advice but commiseration. I’m the oldest of 4 and all of my siblings are either engaged or married. Sometimes it’s hard but I try to remember that a) they all got married/engaged young, I’m only almost 30; and b) we all chose different paths, neither one is right or wrong, it’s just different.

      But I will tell I get especially irked when they get plus 1 to family weddings and I don’t. I know it’s not an intentional thing but I feel like my singleness gets thrown in my face.

      1. +1 to we all chose different paths, neither one is right or wrong, it’s just different.

        We realize this more and more as we age and make numerous decisions, life gets so complex that there is no way to compare the lives of two different people. So, it is best to focus on ourselves, our well being and do what is the best for us irrespective of what other people around you are doing

  4. $4000, of which about $3200 is necessary. Can’t see how I could do it on less and I’m not in biglaw, or big anything for that matter. In the NYC metro area, though.

  5. Apologies for the early TJ. I’m looking for advice on moving within NYC. The distance between the two apartments is short (about 5 blocks) but that’s far enough that it would be a struggle for me to move heavy items like a bed, dresser, desk, etc. by myself or with a friend. I’m sharing an apartment, so it’s really only one bedroom of stuff. It seems like a hassle to get a moving truck for such a short distance. Does anybody know what price range would be reasonable for movers over a short distance for one bedroom? I’m imaging that I would pack everything up in advance. I’d like to keep moving costs at $500 or lower — is that ridiculously low? TIA!

    1. I think this is dependant on whether either of the apartments is in a walk-up building. You can probably get away with under $500 if the buildings have elevators.

    2. Do you have taskrabbit there? That’s a service they offer in SF and it’s pretty cheap – I recently used them to move heavy stuff around. Alternatively there’s probably moving companies that do small intercity moves.

    3. I highly recommend checking with the company called Suburban Solutions. I’ve used them twice and cannot say enough good things about them. You can get a quote online and in my experience they’ve ended up at the low end both times. They charge a truck fee and then by the time it takes.

      Under $500 is completely reasonable in my experience. I moved 1 bedroom of stuff from a 4th floor walk up in Brooklyn to a 2nd floor walk up in Queens and I think it was under $300.

      1. I think you will also get a better rate if you are moving at an “off” time. So if you are trying to move on the last day of the month (like everyone else moving out of an apartment) or on the last Saturday of the month, it might be more expensive or you might not find anyone available, whereas if you are flexible on days (for instance, anytime during the week of the 20th) chances are it will be cheaper/easier to find someone available.

    4. This does seem good for TaskRabbit or any “man with a van” folks–I’d check out yelp, craigslist, etc. (even flyers) for such folks. It sounds like you’d need 1-2 guys for a few hours. I’ve had good luck with Rabbit Movers, too (they employ artists) but that was for much bigger, full household moving. Still, if you’re having trouble finding anything you may want to see if they have smaller vans/crews for you.

      Good luck! Moving in the city is the ban of my existence.

    5. This is totally “man with a van” territory. I did a move like this about 15 years ago, where the actual distance was a block and a half from a side street to the avenue around the corner. I had friends help move small stuff with a luggage dolly and a folding shopping cart, so the movers just did furniture and boxes of books. I was super-prepared, so the movers showed up, got everything out of the old place in about half and hour, and went around the corner with the van. Unloading took longer, because the new place was a walk-up, but still, the whole move was about 2 hours.

    6. Citymove is great because you can put in your move details, what you’re willing to pay and different companies bid on it. When you do a flat rate, it’s great because it entices them to do it faster than at an hourly rate, which becomes a win for all those involved.

    7. I used flatratemovers to do a few block move. One bedroom of stuff and narrow hallways, $300.

    8. I moved 2 years ago and used a company called “College Educated Movers’. Don’t be distracted by the funny name – it’s a legit “man with a van” type moving company. They sent 3 guys in a padded truck with flat beds and all that and my whole move was about $500. As background, I moved from a fully loaded 1-bedroom apartment in Manhattan to a suburban house (my first “home”) in Bergen County, New Jersey. Hope that helps!

  6. Any recommendations for a good moving company in Boston? We are moving from a two bedroom apt in the city to a house in the ‘burbs. No idea how much money to budget or how soon in advance of the move we need to book movers. All advice is appreciated!

    1. When we lived in the Boston area several years ago we used Gentle Giant for a couple of moves and were very satisfied. I believe they were on the pricier end of things, but the service was excellent.

      1. +1. Gentle Giant is the best!!!! We used someone cheaper for another move and totally reg r e t t e d it because they broke some of our stuff.

        1. +2 for Gentle Giant. They are the best moving company I’ve ever used. They are expensive, though, so the last two moves I used cheaper movers (Progressive and Pony Express) and they were both fine, but had problems. (Progressive was several hours late and took a long lunch break, when charging by the hour, and Pony Express was so slow that a 2-BR apartment move took 10 hours).

    2. Daley and Wanzer is based on the South Shore and is great to work with. I believe they go all throughout the suburban Boston area.

  7. Love this. Wish I could afford and justify St. John. Maybe in a few promotions…

    2. This is a great work dress, mainly because it’s not too short and it has sleeves. Why can’t I find anything like this at a more reasonable price????

  8. Has anyone here transitioned from practicing law into a new career? My law career is not panning out the way I’m wanting it to, and after job searching unsuccessfully for about two years, I’m ready to throw in the towel and pursue something else that makes me happy and also has growth potential. I just wonder if a part of me will always feel like I “gave up” on law.

    1. I’m a lawyer who also had a long and fruitless search for a law job. I recently transitioned into no longer practicing and I’m feeling pretty good about it. I think what makes it work for me is that it’s a position that draws heavily on my legal experience. That is, I feel like I get full credit for being a lawyer and my achievements in that field (if that makes any sense). So it’s less that I threw in the towel, and more that I took a different branch along the same path.

    2. There’s a blogger and book author whose blog is a good place to start: Lizbrownjd[dot]com Life After Law.

      Personally, I know former lawyers/law school grads who have become bankers, coaches/career counselors, auditors, real estate developers. I’m sure there are HR managers, professors, teachers, writers…and many more. It may take a lot of work but you can find something to transition to that will make you happy.

    3. I know lots of people who have transistioned out of the law, but most are no longer in the professional sector at all. They own gyms, write blogs, are stay at home parents, own retail shops, etc. Frankly, I think it’s really hard to transition a law degree into most other professional jobs. Don’t believe the hype.

  9. What happened to the lower-priced alternative? And plus-size options?

    1. Good question, so I suggested a lower-priced alternative in a post below:-)

    2. I’m a civil rights lawyer and part of the jurisp. speaks of a “less discriminatory alternative.” i feel like the lower-priced and plus-sized options are just that for splurge monday picks!

  10. Anyone have advice for dealing with aging parents who expect you to live in the same area as them forever, even when it’s not really a great choice for you/your own family? My parents just sprung this on me this weekend. Given that we’ve never lived close to extended family (and indeed moved across the country several times growing up following my dad’s career), I really didn’t think they expected me to stay in my hometown, or even one place, forever. Staying here is going to be unmanageably expensive once we have a family, and the likelihood is my husband’s job will require a move, potentially to the other coast, in a few years. I guess I’m just dealing with my surprise that they expect this from me, given my family history. Am I a bad daughter? Am I supposed to plan my life around where my parents choose to live?

    1. Your parents are being ridiculous. You’re an adult and they get no say whatsoever in where you live (or who you marry or what you name your kids). They’ll get over it. Time to set boundaries and shut down these types of conversations.

      1. +1. You are not a bad daughter for wanting to live your own life. As an adult with your own family, your primary consideration should be what is best for you, your husband, and your kids, not your parents.

      2. That seems a little harsh. I agree that parents shouldn’t guilt-trip you for moving away, and that you’re within your rights to do so. But it might go a long way to easing the adjustment if you approach the topic with empathy. Of course parents will be sad if their adult children live far away (especially if those children have grandchildren). And of course adult children should live wherever it makes sense for them to live. But you can recognize the former without denying the latter. Maybe you can talk with them about what worries them the most — that you’ll lose touch, that no one will be there to help them physically when they’re older, that they used to have lots of friends and family in the area but now they have fewer people and are lonely, that they won’t know their grandchildren (if you have kids)? If you know what’s worrying them (and if you’re so inclined) maybe you can find ways to reassure them. Can you agree to Skype once a week? Can you help them find services if they need help around the house, or help getting to the doctors’, etc? Do they need to widen their social circle and can you help them find activities where they might meet new friends (my MIL loves her local over 55 club — they go on trips, hold classes on all different topics, go to shows, go trail walking — as a recently retired widow it’s been a great place for her to find new friends).

        1. all helpful comments, thank you. Of course I am open to skyping, helping them out etc. I even volunteered that they coudl potentially move with us if it was so important to them (as I explained, it’s not like they live near extended family now). Hopefully once they simmer down they’ll be open to that. I think I’m feeling angry because almost out of the blue they just said “if you move away we are going to be very sad,” and “I always thought we were close but I guess we’re not if you’re thinking about moving.” Ugh.

          1. Yeah, first comment (“we’ll be sad”) is one thing, but “I thought we were close” is another. I’m sorry. Hopefully they’re just having an emotional reaction and will be more reasonable (and less emotional blackmail-y) once they collect themselves a little.

          2. Is this move actually happening, or is it all theoretical at this point? I think you need to have conversation with your parents about whether this is theoretical (it is likely that we will have to move for spouse’s job in a few years, while we enjoy living near you we can’t promise we’ll always be here) vs actually happening soon (spouse is actively interviewing/applying for jobs across the country and we are actively trying to move cross country).

            Don’t let them guilt you, but don’t let it be a surprise to them someday either (surprise! we’re moving across the county in a month!)

            Either way, you should make it clear to your parents that you aren’t moving BECAUSE of them (unless that is the case). Or is it the case that even though you and your family moved around the country, one of your parents siblings was always in the area to take care of grandparents, and parents have assumed that you will take that role if you don’t have other siblings (or if they have already moved)? My family has a bit of this dynamic where the last sibling in the area announced they were moving and the rest of the family was up in arms – “but who will take care of grandma!!” never mind that they had all moved years earlier, until the dust settled.

          3. I would be very, very careful about inviting your parents to move with you unless you are fully prepared to shoulder all the burden of caregiving, alone. It is much easier to set boundaries about what you can and can’t do for your parents when you are geographically distant.

          4. My GOSH that second comment.

            Are your parents the kind of people where, in order to be a “good daughter,” you need to put their needs first all of the time? If that’s the case, then they will treat you like you’re a bad daughter, regardless of what you do. If this is out of character for them (with a comment like #2, I would find that hard to believe), then they might have just vocalized their preference in a less than ideal way, probably due to some fear on their part about the aging process (so I would think).

            Yes, there are many ways to handle the situation of giving care to an aging parent, and I’m sure you will consider BOTH what’s best for you and what’s best for your parents in making that decision. Bottom line is that it’s still your choice. And if your parents want to be part of that conversation, which they should be since it affects them, it’s probably best that they keep their comments constructive and shy away from emotional blackmail as a means of manipulation. Maybe that’s a good starter conversation to have before things start becoming more real and before anyone has any expectations of the situation.

    2. Are you the only offspring? Or are they just guilt-tripping the daughter? With multiple siblings, the ones nearby take care of day-to-day tasks (shopping, taking to doctor, driving to/from hospital) while the ones farther away can contribute time (helping with estate plans, handling bills, dealing with Medicaid and doctor bills and logistics like hiring moving companies) and money (nursing home fees, caregivers, cleaning people, meal delivery). This is how our family is coping.

      I think it’s “normal” in the US for families to be Ping-Pong balls. My parents are from Georgia and Maryland. My grandparents were in Florida. We settled in Seattle. My brothers are in California, Utah and Idaho. My husband’s sister is in California.

      Having watched my parents go through this and now going through it with my parents and in-laws, I say that long-distance caregiving of elders just sucks. My mother moved her mother from Florida to Seattle when she had no one but it wasn’t easy for either of them.

      So short advice is don’t feel guilty about moving, be open to them joining you in the new town or being “snowbirds” or some compromise like you move where you need to be and they move somewhere closer to you but not in the same town.

  11. Does anyone have a good facial sunscreen they’d like to recommend for daily wear? I’m looking for something to wear alone or with makeup for work, not the heavy-duty sunscreen I would wear if I was working out outside.

    I want something that has a decent SPF (higher than 15, preferably higher than 30), that isn’t too heavy and doesn’t smell too much like sunscreen. I’m happy to have either regular sunscreen or a tinted moisturizer, but prefer something lighter than a BB cream.

    1. Eucerin Daily Defense (SPF 30) or Neutrogena Healthy Defense (SPF 50) are some good drugstore options.

      1. I use the Eucerin Daily Defense (SPF 30) and like it. It has a bit of a white cast that I need to watch but once I put on some face powder it goes away. My derm recommended it.

      1. I really like the LRP Anthelios mineral version that’s SPF50. It’s very thin and light, and comes in a tinted version that offsets the white cast of the titanium dioxide. It makes a nice finish under makeup, too.

    3. I’ve been using supergoop for everyday wear and really love it. I find it pretty moisturising and it doesn’t have that sunscreen smell.

      I do appreciate the irony of living in Scotland and weighing in on sunscreen but you guys, it’s sunny! We went to the beach this weekend. Granted, in coats and jeans but I’ll take what I can get.

    4. I love Coola SPF 30 Unscented Matte Tint. It has a light texture and rubs in easily and smoothly with no white cast. It also provides a light mattifying effect.

    5. I love Jack Black’s Double Duty moisturizer (SPF 20) and the Elta MD sunscreen line, but I also have very dry skin and can get away with slathering myself with the stuff (both are very lightweight and the Jack Black is so luxurious!). If you’re oily, look for something by Shiseido, La Rosche Posay (sp?) that’s formulated for your skin type. I wouldn’t rely on a BB cream alone for sun protection–you want to find something you can apply liberally under your makeup!

      3. Yes. Elta MD is the only sunscreen I’ve ever been able to use successfully under makeup. It was recommended by my dermatologist.

    7. I’ve been using Aveeno Naturals with SPF 30 for years. My derm recommended it, plus it’s like $8/bottle.

      1. Me too. It just works really well with my skin. I tried more expensive options, but Aveeno was a good fit!

    8. I stock up on neutrogena ultra sheer sunscreen whenever I can. It’s very liquid (super low viscosity) and is made to be worn under makeup so no sticky shiny feeling.

    10. I use CeraVe daily moisturizer, it has 30 SPF which includes a physical as well as chemical block. And it blends very well into my skin.

    11. I have unbelievably sensitive skin, and neutrogena’s spf 50 moisturizer makes my skin tingle in a bad way (even the product labeled for sensitive skin). I recently switched to Cetaphil’s spf 50 moisturizer, and it’s gentler (and nongreasy, which is important when I’m putting it under makeup). I’m not in love with it, but I’m definitely happier.

  12. Loft is having a 50% off everything sale (online only) and free shipping for a “limited time only.” Does anyone have enough experience with Loft to know if limited time only is more likely to mean a few days or until lunchtime only? I want to order a few things, but probably can’t get to it until this evening.

    1. From the email I got it says “last day for free shipping and 50% off” so my guess is it ends tonight.

      I rarely shop at Loft anymore but I ended up ordering a pair of the “pencil” pants that I’m very excited about. I tried them on in the store yesterday and they were surprisingly flattering. I ended up ordering online because I needed a petite, but hoping they still fit well. The pants are unlined so that is one downside, and a bit itchy so there’s that too, but I’ve been looking for a pair of skinny work pants for so long and struck out everywhere from Jcrew to BR to random selections at Nordstrom and Bloomingdale’s. I figure unlined is a small con if everything else looks good, esp. at $45. Just a recommendation for anyone looking for something similar.

      (http://www.loft.com/seasonless-wool-pencil-pants-in-marisa-fit/366637?colorExplode=false&skuId=18286557&catid=catl000014&productPageType=fullPriceProducts&defaultColor=6600)

    2. In my experience the sales usually run for an entire day unless they say otherwise in the email. (I’m not sure what the cut-off is, maybe midnight EST, but it’s late evening.)

  13. I just got an op-ed placed and it ran today (yay!). I’m relatively new in my job, but getting published in my field is very important to my position although it’s not something I’ve done much of in the past. I’m not sure what, if anything, I should do to let people know about the op-ed. It’s in a publication that’s read by some but not all people in my area (like say I was an expert in wheels and got an article published in Bicycles Today — the other wheel people might or might read it, and the car and stroller and handcart people definitely wouldn’t). Anyone else who gets published semi-frequently have any thoughts or suggestions?

    1. Congratulations! If the op-ed can be accessed online, my first question is– can you provide a link to it that is free and does not require registration or any other rigmarole? Sometimes that’s hard to tell if you have been visiting a site that there are barriers for newcomers. Because it’s a great thing to send a short e-mail about, or post on your LinkedIn.

        1. Yes, I think that’s a nice way to go. Then you know it will work for everybody.

    2. I get a lot of emails where someone just forwards their Op-Ed with a little intro message or sends info about TV appearance, etc. Don’t be shy. It’s totally appropriate to send to your contacts, just make sure you BCC the recipients so anyone “replying all” accidentally isn’t replying to the whole group.

      1. Related question: if you sent a copy to your boss and she neither congratulated you nor passed it on to others in the group, how would you proceed? (Asking her about it is not an option.)

        1. Can you pass it along to others in your group yourself? Is there a precedent that your boss should do it?

      2. This happens in my field, too. People just forward it around with a “This ran today.” Toot your own horn, lady!!

        And Congrats!

    4. Perhaps share a link to it on social media? (Twitter/LinkedIn/wherever your colleagues are)

      1. Also, according to the size chart, I would take a 6 (!). I usually wear an 8 from AT and BR — does this brand really run that big??

        1. I’m 5’6″ and it hits me at the top of the knee. I don’t think it runs big. I got a 4; I typically wear a 2 in tops and a 6 in bottoms in AT and BR. The 4 is a bit tight through the hips, but the 6 was too big in the chest and I needed it for a funeral the next day, so I didn’t have time to buy bigger and get it tailored. The 4 ends up working fine with spanx. I’d probably get an 8 if that’s what you usually wear. Hope that helps!

  15. Any advice from those who have gone through a divorce (especially with young children involved)? I am now certain that’s the route I’m taking (8 years of marriage, 6 of those on-the-fence). I’m willing to give it a year to “prepare” (emotionally, financially) he knows it’s an option but does not yet know it’s a definite. Thanks.

    1. Speaking as someone who hasn’t gone through the divorce themselves, but whose parents divorced when I was 4 and then again when I was 10, just keep them out of it as much as possible, in terms of disputes over custody, support, whatever. I honestly have no memories of my parents arguing over things from the first divorce and only one from an awkward weekend family vacation from the divorce when I was older and I think it was incredibly beneficial to my brother and me.

      Kids are much more resilient than I think parents give them credit for when it comes to divorce. They’re not going to be the only kids with divorced parents and they won’t be the last.

      1. I agree. I am eternally grateful to my parents for the divorce they had. I know it’s not always possible to have things proceed amicably but you have to at least try to make the decision that you will try for that and that you will not involve the kids to the fullest extent you can. I have friends with small kids going through it now and I cringe to think of what their kids are going through. Just because your spouse may not be a good husband doesn’t mean he can’t be a good father. And even if he can’t be a good father it doesn’t mean you have to highlight that for your children. My father certainly wasn’t perfect but I grew up thinking he loved me very much and that has been invaluable for me.

        As for the rest, I also haven’t gone through this, but having watched my friends I think taking time to prepare is a great idea. Line up all your financial affairs, get a lawyer, have a plan of who’s leaving, don’t assume he’ll act in one way or another, be prepared for your friends to choose sides, or for other parents at school to treat you differently, just be prepared for as many contingencies as you can… Also, look for a lawyer who will be in line with what you want from this situation. I see a lot of women make the mistake of hiring someone very aggressive because they want someone who’ll fight for them instead of someone who will try to resolve the situation in a way that works best for all parties. Another point about lawyers – make sure if you’re hiring a firm, you know who you will actually be working with. One of my friends hired a very shmancy matrimonial firm but ended up having all her work farmed out to the partner’s son who was fresh out of law school and an idiot.

    2. Lawyer up. Know your rights.
      Build your war chest, by which I mean have plenty of cash on hand to see you through the entire process including attorney fees and living expenses while waiting for a final settlement/judgment.
      Don’t move out of the house unless you are willing to let it go for good because it’s very unlikely you will get back in after you move out.
      If you do move out, take everything with you that is important to you because, again, once you leave you are leaving everything behind and it’s unlikely you will get it back.
      Get some counseling/therapy starting now. You will need professional support as you go through this process.
      Be as civil and cooperative as possible about co-parenting. Do not, under any circumstances, fight in front of the child(ren) about custody arrangements. High conflict divorces are awful for kids so don’t let yours be high conflict.
      Good luck and hang in there!

      1. I agree about cash on hand. During my parents’ divorce I was surprised at how much the attorneys fees were (and I’m a lawyer!).

      2. Re: High Conflict custody cases, here are some resources if you sense the other parent is doing a number on your kid:

        I Don’t Want to Choose: How Middle School Kids Can Avoid Choosing One Parent Over the Other
        by Katherine Andre, Ph.D. and Amy J.L. Baker, Ph.D. (workbook to be read with parent and child together).

        Amy J.L. Baker, Ph.D.: “Beyond the high road: Responding to 17 parental alienation strategies without compromising your morals or harming your child” (for the parent only).

        An Umbrella for Alex by Rachel Rashkin­-Shoot.

    3. You need to figure out whether you are better with him or without him. That includes such factors as
      1) Economic – will you have enough money to make it on your own, or do you need him for $
      2) Political – what will the family fallout entail, and are you up for the challenge in addressing same
      3) Social – what will be the impact of being a single mom — will you be socially accepted among your social circle; do you need a man at your side, and in your bed to be validated?

      Once you figure out the ESP’s, you should be able to best answer the with him/without him, as I did.

      On the Economic, I was able to say Yes, because I had a small nest egg and a BA degree that I could use to get a copyrighter’s job 3 years ago, which let me make ends meet with a 6 year old in school all day

      On the Political, I warded off comments from my family and friends that said I needed to stay married for the sake of our child, if for no other reason, even though my husband was disinterested in upbringing for our child.

      On the Social, I convinced myself, over the objections of others that I needed to stay with my husband because no other man would accept a slightly overweight 33 year old woman with a child and a menial job, and that my best chance for companionship was with the guy who signed our marriage license.

      The social was the most difficult, because once our divorce became final and we sold our house, I relocated to a small apartment in a commercial zone where there was little social interaction. But I did OK, and met a guy through work who has become a surrogate dad for Henry, and we have integrated him into our weekends, including sleepovers now. I was not the social pariah that mom and dad said I would become, as there are men who are interested in me, even tho I come with some baggage — don’t we all? And I have not become a nun sexually, as my boyfriend is very giving to me (as I am with him).

      So go through the E.S.P.’s as I did and you can soon decide whether you should stay with him or DTMFA!

      1. On the dating aspect, I started seeing someone when my son was 10, and married him when my son was 12, and it was the worst decision I ever made. If I were divorcing now with a young child I would not date until my child(ren) were at least in high school and ideally not until they were out of the house. I don’t think dating and parenting young children are a good mix.

          1. I agree- as someone whose parent remarried with four kids (ages 15, 13, 7 and 4) involved between them and new spouse. It was horrible. Parent and new spouse dated for all of 3 months before marrying. Situation never got better, and might still be getting worse.

        2. I feel like it’s coming from a selfish place, but from my experience as a child of divorced parents and nearly all my other friends in the same situation, I can’t totally disagree- I’d say to be super careful that whatever romantic partners your bringing into your life accept your kids 100% and will absolutely not let any resentment show through- your kids will sense it.

          My parents divorced when I was 15, and my mom began dating her current husband shortly after the divorce went through. My parents’ divorce was amicable and frictionless, and I always felt like I dealt with it well– they’ve supportive and kind to each other, and can communicate often with one another about my now-adult brother who has a lot of mental health issues, which is great. But my mom’s now husband blew apart our relationship and went a long way to creating some emotional baggage in the lives of my brother and I. I think it started off as his low-grade resentment of my mom having kids and the constant “evidence” of her life that existed before he came along, and eventually boiled over into some inappropriate invasions into our relationship with our mom (he’d never raised his kids and had NO idea how to interact with us and I think resented the time and financial investment having kids took), and cruel words on his part. It sucked– but my parent’s divorce didn’t!

          1. As a woman who dates a lot of single dads, I feel like I see WAY too many people rush back into dating right away. I expect – in fact, I *want* a divorced father to be really careful about not introducing me to his children until it is a very serious relationship. I also think that, post-divorce, parents need to be focused on establishing a healthy new normal with their kids, and you can’t really do that if you’re also looking for a new partner (as opposed to, say, non-serious companionship/fun with someone that you won’t be a permanent part of your life and who your kids will never meet or know about, which I think is fine, although isn’t a role I am interested in playing).

            Honestly, I won’t even consider dating someone who isn’t well (like, years) past their divorce – even if they don’t have kids. It takes a LOT of time to get to a stable place, in my experience.

    4. Give some thought to what custoday arrangement you want for now, knowing that it will need to be flexible as your children get older. Be prepared for the possibility that the other parent may not agree. I have a friend who was all set to start divorce proceedings before her husband said that he would want primary physical custody of the children because his work hours were shorter and more regular (she was a lawyer; he had a job with no travel and 8-5 working hours). She was horrified and unprepared for the strong possibility that her kids would end up mostly living with their Dad and with the amount of child support she was going to end up paying. They are still married, mostly because she did not want to give up her kids at least 50% of the time.

      1. Isn’t that kind of sexist? Was there something wrong with him as a father? If the shoe were on the other foot, no question the mother with fewer hours out of the house would have gotten custody.

        1. I don’t think it’s sexist for her to decide to stay because she wants greater access to her kids more than she wants to be divorced from their father. Plenty of dads have made the same decision in similar circumstances.

    5. Make sure the order addresses college costs (tuition and other) and any other education-related expenses (ie, pre-college private school). If it’s not written down in the order, it’s not going to happen later.

      Make sure the order includes a specific parenting plan that includes: regular schedule (I like week on/week off but others have different preferences); holidays (make a list, balance it into two equal lists, you take list A in even years and list B in odd years and he takes the opposite); vacation time (how much per parent per year and how much advance notice must you give the other parent); drop off places and times (before/after school or summer camp or daycare is best because no opportunity for the other parent to yell at you in front of the kids) and who will drive (once the kids were old enough to let themselves in with a key, we went with “the parent whose house the kids are leaving drives the kids to the house of the parent to whom the kids are arriving” because it eliminated the constant problem of showing up at the other parent’s house at the scheduled time only to find that they “took an extra hour for brunch, but you can wait outside until we finish” etc.). In other words, leave no wiggle room because water flows to the lowest point and a high-conflict person will take advantage of the smallest wiggle room. A simple statement that “the parents share joint legal and joint physical custody” is so insufficient that I think it borders on malpractice.

      Make sure there is something in the order about schools (and soccer camps and Girl/Boy Scouts and doctors) being informed each year that the child lives in two homes and that both homes must get whatever mailings are sent out. Do not under any circumstances believe that the other parent will make sure you get a copy of whatever the school or doctor or coach circulates. It will never happen.

      2. I would also add to this any contingencies if one of you decides to move farther away. My parents lived two hours distance from each other when my brother and I were growing up, so it was weekend visits, but when we were late elementary/early middle school, they were consistently every other weekend, without fail. I moved in with my dad for a while in high school, and then back in with my mom, and once I hit high school and got involved with after school/weekend activities, it become more free flow (once or twice a month, as my schedule allowed, but still very consistent). In terms of drop off, very rarely did my step mom ever do them once she and my dad got married.

        Once I got my license, drop offs/schedules were less of an issue – my brother and I would simply go straight to my dad’s from school on Friday afternoon, ring my dad when we were leaving school, ring my mom when we got to my dad’s and then vice versa on Sunday afternoon when we were coming home.

        1. To add to this, in terms of holidays as well, since my dad is much more religious and tends to do rather large family gatherings than my mom and her family, we spent most of the major holidays with him and then just did small things with my mom when we got home. Not sure how my mom thought about it at the time, but there never seemed to be any arguments in front of us about.

    6. thank you so much for everyone’s advice! there is so much to think about beforehand, this will help!

  16. Family drama. My mother and her sister have a challenging relationship – both able to push each other’s buttons easily and with little provocation (a lifetime of accumulated hurts, defensiveness, and poor communication skills). At one point in the past, one of these discussions led to 10 years of not speaking. Fast forward to now – my cousin is having a baby shower, and invited me by text message yesterday. I don’t know if my mom is/will be invited. I’m interested in going, but my mother may be very hurt if I’m invited and she is not. This involves overnight travel. How would you handle – would you ask my cousin if my mother is invited? Ask my mom if she’s heard about it? Ask a third sibling? Do nothing until real invites might go out (which might not happen, with this family) or until it’s inevitable that my mom finds out? If I go, my mother will find out about it, because I can’t hide the travel part and have no reason to travel to this area but for my family.

    1. I’d ask the cousin (guest of honor for the baby shower) if your mother is getting an invite, so you can figure out how you want to answer. If you want to go, then go because the mom/aunt stuff shouldn’t weigh on your relationship with your cousin. Overnight travel to attend gives you an out if you’d rather stay home and just send a gift (if you want).

    2. Whose baby is it? Is the cousin who texted you the mother-to-be? I’d probably run the question through the hostess if it was not your aunt and not the mom-to-be (e.g., if it was a second cousin hosting for first cousin). Otherwise, I might call the cousin/mom-to-be with a “you know how our moms can be [eyeroll] . . . can you let me know if my mom is going to be invited?” I hate to put the guest of honor in this position, but I imagine anything else will be more dramatic.

      1. Thanks, everyone. The text was from my other cousin (sister of mom-to-be). I did text her a few minutes ago just to ask.

  17. If it was me, I would tell the cousin I was making travel plans and ask if she was planning to invite your mom, because you wouldn’t want to say anything if not.

  18. Any STLers on here? I’m running the marathon this weekend and trying to figure out places for pre-race dinner Saturday night. I have a pretty finicky running stomach so honestly I’m really just looking for a place to have a plain dinner like a chicken breast and mashed sweet potatoes. I would just have a meal bring something I could heat up in the hotel if I could, but I’ll be flying in. Not interested in a major pasta meal or somewhere that will be packed and take forever, and I’d like to stay near my or my family’s hotels (within a few blocks of Busch Stadium and Union Station, respectively) as I won’t have a car. Any suggestions? So far what I’ve seen scanning the map is a lot of pasta places and to-be-expected Cards sports bars. Thanks!

    1. Too late to edit, but I’ll add that if this isn’t really doable downtown and finding my way out to the Whole Foods in Brentwood is the best way to go, feel free to say that too :)

      2. If you wanted to go the Whole Foods route, there is a gourmet/organic/foodie grocery store called Culinaria downtown. They probably would have carry-out that meets your needs.

        1. Thanks! I will look for that. Downtown would definitely be much easier.

          And thanks houston :)

    2. Oh, me! There’s a place called Athlete Eats on Cherokee Street, which is an amalgamation of a Hispanic and up-and-coming hipster neighborhood. It’s still kind of on the fringe as far as gentrification goes, but Saturday nights are pretty busy around there. The chef/owner used to be the chef for the Rams, I think? Would probably have just what you need. And I think if you order ahead you can get it delivered to your hotel room. Athleteeats.com. Good luck at the race – and I hope you stick around enough to enjoy our great City!

  19. Odd question for all rettes. As I’ve gotten older my skin has gotten more sensitive and my body chemistry has changed. The result is that my private bits have developed sensitivities to lots of different kinds of soap -itchy rash sensitivities. I’ve tried Dove and Castile soap, which are supposed to be gentler, but they don’t work either. The last several days I’ve just been rinsing with water but feel not so fresh. Am I alone in this? If not, what have others used to fix this?

    1. Is the oil cleansing method a real thing? If it works on faces and is safe for mucous membranes, could it work there too?

    2. Haven’t used it for this, but you might try Johnson & Johnson liquid Purpose (from the drug store). Extremely gentle, no scents, feels clean.

    3. I experienced a similiar problem last year. I discovered Vagisil PH Balance Wash or Vagisil Moisturizing Wash, no irritation and both leave you feeling fresh (not heavily fragranced or perfumey).

    4. have you tried the soaps especially for that area? washcloth and water and no soap?

    5. FWIW My mother has quite sensitive skin (needs unscented deodorant, etc.) and uses Aveeno body wash.

    6. I’m sensitive too. I use my regular shower gel on whatever the loofa naturally slides over and on my thighs, and for any further cleaning on inner parts, just use direct spray with a handheld showerhead or crouching in front of the tub tap and directing the water with a hand. It takes a bit of time and water to feel clean, but it feels healthier than using soap for me, and one gardener actually commented on how clean I always smelled. As always, YMMV.

    7. Cerave hydrating cleanser was the only thing besides water-only I could find recommended online by a reputable source. Very happy with it but I had external dryness so YMMV.

  20. I’m looking for a small envelope-sized wallet/clutch to transport bills between home and office? Any ideas? My google search has not been fruitful so far.

      1. I was going to recommend these. I keep two in my purse; I put credit card, cleaners, and other receipts in them – one for home and one for work. They work like a charm, are “decorative,” easy to find in the purse, and so far are holding up very well.

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