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For busy working women, the suit is often the easiest outfit to throw on in the morning. In general, this feature is not about interview suits, which should be as classic and basic as you get — instead, this feature is about the slightly different suit that is fashionable, yet professional.
Love this navy tweed suit from Lavayette 148 New York — the slight pleat in the collar is interesting without being too “too,” and the slant pockets and covered button are just right. The jacket (Lafayette 148 New York ‘Neville' Virgin Wool Blend Jacket) is $498, and the skirt (Lafayette 148 New York Tweed Pencil Skirt
) is $248, both available at Nordstrom in sizes 2-16.
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anon for this
A threadjack right away, I apologize.
With my bar application coming up next year, there is something I am really freaking out over. I was subject to disciplinary action in college over a fight with a bf. It was an emotionally abusive relationship, and I just shudder when I think about it, I am full of regret and embarrassment at how I allowed myself to be treated. However, I was not with out fault and was disciplined for an action. I of course will talk about this on my bar application, but my question is how detailed I have to be, since the issue is a very personal one. My second question is whether I will have to provide his name. He has done so many awful things to me, if they were to contact him he would try to destroy me. I’ve contacted my college to talk about it but haven’t heard back from them, and I’ve been feeling so unbelievably anxious about it I could really use some help/advice/reassurance. I’ve worked so hard to put that relationship far in the past, I hate that it is now hovering over my head.
Anonymous
I have no concrete advice other than to discuss it with your school’s career center – I highly doubt you are the first student with anxiety regarding disclosing something on a bar application and can probably answer your questions regarding how much to disclose and also ease some of your worries.
Good luck.
Me too
I have been in a similar situation, so I definitely sympathize. I ended up having my emotionally abusive bf placed under arrest for stalking, and I almost resorted to physical violence against him once in a fit of rage (but it ended up not going that far). I think most bar committees would be very understanding of your situation. The best thing is to to talk to someone who is experienced in these sorts of matters – I think an attorney is better than someone in career services, unless you know someone that you can trust. You might also talk to the Dean of Student Affairs. Ours was wonderful and a lot of people went to her for advice on bar related issues (prior drug offenses, etc.). I don’t think you have much to worry about, as long as you are candid and explain the details behind your disciplinary action. Best of luck (and congrats on having that relationship behind you).
Me too
Oh, and I definitely do not think you need to include his name. The bar committee does not need that level of detail and nothing good can come from it. I would essentially explain some details about your relationship, the ensuing abuse, what prompted the disciplinary action against you, and how you deeply regret that it happened.
nonA
Its a college disciplinary action, not a criminal offense, right? I wouldn’t worry excessively. From what I remember of the bar app process, the bar is most concerned about sancitons related to cheating, etc. and things that suggest substance abuse problems.
Be honest, but don’t go into too much detail on the application. Be prepared to answer questions from the bar about it, honestly, calmly, and not defensively or over-emotionally. If it comes to an interview, practice talking about it repeatedly (even if to yourself, a best friend, etc.) so that it doesn’t seem weird to talk about to the committee/person interviewing you.
Definitely talk to someone in your career services/student affairs, etc. who has experience with bar applications about what they think the bar committee in the state where you are applying will want to know, so you will be prepared for what is coming next.
Blonde Lawyer
If he is completely out of your life and you want to keep it that way, and he honestly does not know where you currently reside, I think you can inform the bar examiners that for your own safety you request that he not be contacted. If you put that, in lieu of his name I think you would be fine. I’m sure they would understand.
Anonymous
From a purely practical standpoint, I would advise to complete your bar application as soon as possible. Likely, the bar will do additional investigation on the incident and you want to give them lots of time to do whatever they feel they need to do. Otherwise, there may be a delay even after you’ve passed the bar exam.
Anonymous
I would suggest you look into whether your law school has an ethics counsel. For me, it was the Professor who taught Professional Responsibility. I spoke with him about something I thought might be an issue in my bar application and he definitely made me feel much better and stated that the school would stand behind me and prepare me for any interviews. Good luck – I hope this turns out to be a non-issue for you.
JessC
I would say give enough detail so that your state bar won’t feel like you’re leaving something out. The worst thing you can do is appear to be concealing/diminishing the truth. Tell them about the nature of your relationship, what you did and what lead up to it that required disciplinary action, what the disciplinary action was, and that you regret what happened/what you’ve done since to correct the issue. I’d suggest going to your Student Affairs office first – explain your situation and ask if there’s anyone at the school you can speak to about how to handle this or if they think you need to see an attorney.
As for including his name, it’s probably not necessary (particularly given the nature of your relationship). If the bar really wants his name, they’ll ask you.
Eponine
You really have nothing to worry about. Every state’s bar application is different, but they’re not going to ask you to disclose the name of an abusive ex and they certainly won’t contact him without your consent. You will just have to fill out the bar application accurately, and if they ask, tell them you prefer not to disclose his name and request that he not be contacted for safety reasons – honestly, I doubt they’ll ask. For something so minor that it only involved college disciplinary action, not the police, the most they are likely do is request that you allow the college to forward them the records on the incident. I know lawyers with much more significant offenses in their background, and much more recent to the time they took the bar exam, who were admitted without a problem.
This doesn’t need to hover over your head. You’re a year away from the bar application, and I promise you, it will be very straightforward and simple to deal with. By dwelling on this, you’re continuing to let your abuser control you even though he’s long gone. Just put it out of your mind until the time comes to fill out the application, and put it out of your mind again once that’s done.
Hope this helps.
anon for this
Thank you so much everyone. When it happened, he was the first person to go to the college about it. To everyone accept the administration, they knew how bad it was for me, but the college acted as if first come first serve was the best way to figure out who to punish. It was such an anxiety filled part of my life that all the anxiety came back. There is an ethics professor at my school and I talked to him, and he said he would pull what I wrote on my law school app and when the time came he will help me with it based on that. Thank you again for your reassurances .
Another Sarah
I don’t think it would be a bad idea to call your state’s bar examiners office and ask. Tell them you’re going to apply, tell them what you told us, and ask how detailed they want you to be and if they want his name. My guess is that they’ll probably say “just enough detail-no blow-by-blow” and “no we don’t want his name.” However, if they say, “We don’t want much detail, but make sure to get us the disciplinary report from your college,” then at least you know to pull your record – one less thing to realize you absolutely need at the last minute.
For the record, my state’s bar examiners office was very nice when I called them up and asked silly questions like how do I add an address after I printed the final copy, will I be notified if you’re missing a document before I show up to take the bar exam, etc. So I really doubt they would be elusive about what they want to your (phone) face.
AIMS
I agree with this! They answer all sorts of questions & you don’t even have to give them your name — just say you’re a law student & have some question about filling out your bar app.
anon for this
I know they want the report from the college, and I talked to the college today and they are just sending a form that says we have no reason to be concerned about this student.
Bonnie
The most importatant thing is that you disclose the matter. A guy at my law school failed to disclose an assault incident where he was investigated but ultimately not charged. It took him years to get admitted because he failed to disclose the case. The bar can always ask you for more details.
Caroline
As long as you are honest, I suspect you will be fine. I (and many of my friends) stressed about the disclosures we had to make in our bar applications. I was arrested for fake id in college and spent a night in jail. I, of course, had to disclose this. It was a non-issue, and I am now a rising fourth year associate.
You were not convicted of a crime. People have done far worse and become lawyers. I know this is a stressful time, but you will get through it (and move on to another stressful time–law practice).
Best of luck!
Violet
You are about to graduate from law school and you are seeking legal advice on a fashion blog? You need a lawyer who specializes in bar issues.
maine susan
I would bypass the career center and go right to counsel experience with bar admission/ethics matters. Good luck.
K
Seconding this advice. Career services tends to be helpful only to a small percentage of students (BIGLAW-bound), and not terribly useful when it comes to other issues. YMMV. Your state bar should have an ethics person — start with them. The Character & Fitness investigators are not very helpful. good luck.
F
Your state bar should have an anonymous ethics hotline. Start there
m
YES! This!
anxious interviewee
Threadjack–
I had an interview last Tuesday with Teach For America that (I think) went very well. Normally, I would send a thank-you note by the following day. However, when someone in my interview group asked for the interviewers’ contact information, he was told to email the admissions office if he had any further questions. Since the interviewers did not share their last names with us, either, I figured that there was some policy in place about not contacting our interviewers.
I only just found out, via a Teach For America admissions blog, that we can email people at the admissions office with our thank-you note, who would then forward it to our interviewers. Since it’s been a week, do you think it’s too late to send a thank-you note, or is it better late than never?
A few more facts, to contextualize this a bit:
-There is a chance that they have not yet decided whether to admit me: Interviews for my round took place from Monday through Friday last week, and we won’t know whether or not we’ve been accepted until November 9.
-Sending a thank-you note could make me stand out a bit: Since we were not given the direct contact information for our interviewers, I am inclined to think that most candidates did not send a thank-you note.
-The TFA admissions process is so opaque and different from other jobs for which I have applied that I don’t even know if sending a thank-you note would matter. I don’t know if my interviewers decide whether I am admitted or if someone else makes the ultimate hiring decision.
I am also wondering: If I do send a thank-you note, should I apologize or make any reference as to why I am sending it so late?
Any thoughts would be much appreciated!
Ru
Send the thank-you note, without an apology. It doesn’t matter if other people sent one or not. What matters for you is whether you send one or not.
nonA
Never apologize in a thank-you note. Just send it – it can’t hurt!
Eponine
Agree with just sending it, sans apology.
Anon
I’m a former TFA corps member and fairly actively involved as an alum. I would send a thank you note as a matter of course, but the TFA admissions process is very quantitative and driven by very set criteria that a thank you note almost certainly won’t matter one way or another. For what’s it’s worth, I’m pretty sure I did not send a thank you note when I had my final interview.
JAs
I too, just sent a somewhat late thank you note out today (it had slipped my mind). And I have to say I kind of am annoyed at the thank you letter custom…maybe I am just an anxious, burned out, debt-ridden 3L who’s had a cocktail, but honestly, why do we have to do thank you letters TOO?
With all the hoops you have to jump through to apply for jobs in the first place ( thinking of clerkships in particular), all the materials you have to send, the recommendation letters you have to request, all the distance I had to drive, then I had to be interviewed by 5 JUDGES AT ONCE, and express how excited I am about the opportunity during the interview, etc. …
On top of all that I have to think of something articulate and thoughtful to say that I didn’t already say, print it out on nice stationery (my handwriting is too horrendous to not type it), and mail it? Really?
If an employer could weigh in on how thank you letters help you in determining who to hire, other than (a) this person follows custom or (b) this person really wants it, I would sincerely love to hear.
Anon
Really? You’re complaining how hard it is to apply for jobs and that a thank you is too much work? What do you think it is when you get the job? If someone is amazing and if the job market is good, a thank you probably isn’t necessary. In this job market, with amazing people applying for jobs right and left, it is noted if you do take the time to write a thank you (and mail it, though e-mail isn’t bad), that person gets a point in the consideration column that everyone who doesn’t send a thank you doesn’t get. As someone who interviews, no matter how great you are, I guarantee I’ve seen others just as great. So the thank you does make a difference. It doesn’t need to be witty or insightful or say anything other than that you are looking forward to the opportunity. But if you don’t send one, someone else likely will and you will be at a disadvantage.
JAS
I’m sorry, I realized this came off as whiny and entitled shortly after I posted it but it was stuck in moderation so I couldn’t come back and qualify. It’s not that much work to send a note and certainly not something that’s too high a bar when the other choice is potential unemployment.
BUT- It does kind of feel like groveling sometimes, sending a thank you note, and I do think that doing it because other people will (ie, custom) is an unfortunate reason, and I think the custom is a little silly.
I would also make a sharp distinction between sending a thank you note and, say, writing a memo about preemption (ie, working). Laziness isn’t the reason I don’t like doing them, it’s the feeling that I am kind of sucking up and that everyone knows it but it’s expected so I have to do it. When I think of thank you notes more of a way to follow up on an interesting discussion about a potential job, it’s easier to write them and get my head around sending them.
Anon
You still sound like you have no idea what the world is like once you start working. The ability to write a memo on preemption is maybe 50% of the job. Most of the job is knowing the rules of engagement — rules of engagement with colleagues, with clients, with opposing counsel, with judges, with arbitrators, with vendors….and if you think what you call groveling stops when you get the job, you really don’t know anything about the real world. In my experience, most lawyers who come out of top schools with great grades do poorly as lawyers because, while obviously smart enough, they think that’s enough. The lawyers who shine are the ones that are hungry and want to learn the rules of engagement.
I’m a partner at a law firm by the way. And while official evaluations are usually submitted before a thank you would be received, I can always make an extra push for someone that is already great and sends a thank you. And I have given one call back interview (that subsequently lead to the candidate getting a summer associate position) to a candidate that emailed a thank you before the job fair where I was interviewing was over. He didn’t have the best grades or the best school, but he seemed “hungry” and the quick turnaround on the thank you backed that up.
Eponine
My take on it is that a thank-you note shows that the applicant has good manners. The choice of stationery sometimes also tells me about his/her personality.
Anon
I kind of understand. Given, I was job searching in the heyday when jobs were easy to come by. And no one ever told me (really!) that thank you notes were appropriate and expected. I just don’t get it. I expect them now from the interviews I’ve done, but still don’t care at all. Only makes sense to me if there was something particular about the interview that is followed up upon (like you said). If it’s just “Thanks for your time.” — Eh. No factor in my decisionmaking whatsoever.
BTW, for those in law, at least at my firm, we have to fill out our evaluations before we would ever receive even a timely (mailed the next day) thank you note.
L
It’s really just a good manners thing. They can be incredibly short. But, the truth is, almost all hiring evluations (and sometimes decisions) are long over before your thank you note even arrives. This is particularly true with big law interview. I fill out the evaluation the minute after I drop you off with the next interviewer. In the judges’ chambers in which I’ve work there was evaluation after the interview, but typically the judge would mull it over for a couple of days, so in that instance a thank you note may be a welcome sign of professionalism.
E
I ABSOLUTELY ADORE the suit!
eplawyer
I adore the suit. It would be perfect for me. Too bad I can’t afford it.
F
Agree
ER
Yes, I would get this in an instant if I could afford it.
Forestgirl
Like the jacket; to me, the skirt seems absurdly long. I don’t know exactly what it is–maybe the combo of the very high waist plus the below-the-knee length. It doesn’t even look good on the model.
Anonymous
Oh man you’d hate my work wardrobe then – all of my skirts are this just-bel0w-the-knee, high waisted style, and I wear a skirt pretty much every day :)
Forestgirl
I have confidence that it looks better on you than it does on the model! :-)
Anonymous
Aww thanks :)
Legally Brunette
I like the length of the skirt as well and most of my skirts are this length or a tad shorter. However, this length looks best if you are wearing fairly high heels, otherwise, this skirt can look a bit frumpy.
jcb
Or tall boots. Love the suit, the navy tweed is gorgeous.
Suze
Yes, exactly – the length (or minus an inch) is perfectly flattering and perfectly professional, but you do need either 2.5 inch + heels or boots to make it work. I love this suit BECAUSE there are so few in this length (either slutty or dowdy seems the order/length of the day). On shopping moratorium this week at least….maybe soon :).
Suze
I meant to say – just over or about an inch above the knee – the inch below the knee almost never works…..
Another Laura
I love this suit. I don’t like navy but this has enough interest to keep it from being boring.
I think that the skirt is high waisted to keep the wearer’s shirt from showing under the button when the jacket is buttoned. Instead of the wearer’s blouse showing, the skirt shows. I think that might help keep the line smooth.
Arachna
Love the length of the skirt. Wish there were more longer than top of knee skirts available.
spacegeek
ditto
Chicago S
Love, love, love this suit. I would hem the skirt so it hits at the top of my knee vs. just below.
J
The sleeves look super-long, but I like the skirt length as well. Brooks Brothers are this length on me.
2L NYC
I really love this suit, but it doesn’t come in my size (like almost all other suits it seems). I think we have had this conversation on here before, but are there are any companies who consistently stock true 00’s and 0’s? So far, only Elie Tahari and Theory blazers fit me, but they don’t always have the colors I like and are quite expensive. I also prefer 2-buttons and often 3-button blazers.
Any thoughts?
MelD
I don’t know what a “true” 0 is (and to be honest I hate that term) but BCBG offers XXS and the sizes as a whole tend to run a bit smaller. For less expensive options, H&M also seems to run smaller.
Untrue 0 ;)
This term refers to “size inflation” or “vanity sizing”–that labels now are several notches down from what they used to be. It’s flattering for people like me, but not so great for people like 2L NYC, who are “truly” at the smallest end of the spectrum and left with nothing small enough for them.
2L, I notice that some of the major retailers (like Ann Taylor and J. Crew) have XXS and 00s more reliably online than in stores.
anon
the jcrew size 0 actually runs quite large! i am a 00p or 0p at ann taylor (i prefer to wear tops on the roomy side) and 0p at jcrew just falls off me.
Eponine
I love the blog http://www.extrapetite.com. Not my own, just a fan.
Daisys
LOVE LOVE LOVE this suit, and love the length of the skirt, but do the sleeves look too long on the model?
Forestgirl
Agreed, they look far too long.
Anonymous K
Agreed as well. I understand sleeves can be shortened, but it makes me wonder about the overall scale of the suit.
Anon
Can anyone advise me on the proper sleeve length for suits and jackets/blazers? Where on the hand should the sleeve hit?
LMo
Lone dissenter, I guess. I think the fabric is hideous – it reminds me of a toned down in color version of those 80s neon paint splatter prints. That said, I do like the one button jacket here and I usually stay away from those. I’m kind of surprised more people haven’t commented on that – the one button usually raises some comments around here. :)
KZ
I’ve got no problem with the one button, but I’m also not a fan of the fabric.
Emma
Agreed. Not loving the fabric.
Ru
Ditto.
MelD
I don’t like anything about the suit- the fabric, the cut, or the length of the sleeves/skirt. I might like the fabric better with another suit but I can’t really tell because I don’t like anything else about the suit either.
AIMS
To me this suit screams, “Matronly!”
Not a fan at all!
Liz
I actually really like this suit. Suits can often look so plain because they’re usually just solid or pinstriped, but I really like the pattern here.
AIMS
I like plain suits. My biggest pet peeve dressing for work is the embellishments on women’s suits. It wouldn’t bother me much if there were options, but it seems like 90% of women’s suits have at least one cumbersome detail. The 10% that don’t tend to be on a rather much more expensive spectrum. It’s always depressing to me to see a huge suit sail wherein all suits are 2 for $149 or whatever & I can’t find one plain simple one among the bunch. Men have it so much easier in this regard.
Miss Anon
I think there’s always a demand for the plainer/more traditional suits, so it’s a good idea to snap them up when you see them on sale, even if you don’t need one. I think Ann Taylor outlet is a good place to look for basic suits at a reasonable price since they usually have the $150 for 2 pieces, $200 for 3 going.
Parisienne
I’m not sure I understand what college discipline is, but why do you have to mention that in a bar application? Doesn’t federal law protect your privacy as to educational records? Maybe there is a way you can have those records sealed or expunged – they may hurt you in some divorce action in your future life if they remain. They can be subpoenaed, but you are required to be given prior notice by the school so you can attempt to quash the subpoena.
As to the suit du jour, I love the draped lapels, but that is a lot of money to pay for a fabric that is a blend. At that price I would be looking for pure wool or pure silk.
Another Sarah
Privacy? In a Bar Application? HA. If you don’t give them what they want, you don’t get admitted. I have never heard of anyone saying, “that’s none of your business, and I’ll stop you if you go snooping” to the bar examiners and getting away with it. :-)
Character and fitness is a big portion of the bar app, and the examiners look at everything that goes to your character and fitness to practice law. On my bar app, this included any jobs, addresses, crimes, marriages, divorces, aliases, traffic tickets, credit reports, hospitalizations (and resulting medications), commitments to mental hospitals (and resulting medications), notes from treating doctors that you’re fine now (and their credentials), scholastic fidelity and discipline problems at schools for the past 10 years. And mine was on the less-extensive end of it… :-)
kellyn
I know my bar apps required any legally-related things, regardless of whether or not they were sealed or expunged.
The bar exam is akin to a cavity search. Bend over!
AN
Gorgeous, gorgeous suit!
Selia
Also LOVE the suit. Would shorten the skirt to just at the knee (otherwise, at least on me, my calves look stumpy!) Will be watching this one to go on sale! When Nanette Lepore gets it right, it is gorgeous – fit, fabric, etc. For me, the brand is either spot on or totally NOT (sometimes can be really “out there”)! There seems to be little in between for me.