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For busy working women, the suit is often the easiest outfit to throw on in the morning. In general, this feature is not about interview suits for women, which should be as classic and basic as you get — instead, this feature is about the slightly different suit that is fashionable, yet professional.
Ooh: Yes, this is boring black, but I love a stretch cotton twill suit, particularly for spring/summer weather (should it ever come). Love the flared pants (I knew if I waited long enough they'd come back into style!) and the collarless, buttonless blazer — very chic. Personally I usually get slash pockets on the side sewn down (you still have the back welt pockets to carry an ID card and a bit of cash, should you need it for a lunch/coffee/nails run), but you may choose differently. I'm surprised to see that it's “dry clean only” — I always thought the advantage of cotton suiting (over seasonless wool suiting) is that it's easier to wash more frequently. I wouldn't wear this on a job interview (the fabric makes it much more casual), but I'd wear it just about anywhere else. The jacket (Theory Tadean Open-Front Jacket) is $395, and the pants (Theory Tevita Cotton Flare-Leg Pants) are $275.
(Psst: Saks is having a big sale on suits — lots of previous picks are now on deep discount (lots of near-$500 blazers for under $200, particularly). Happy hunting, ladies!)
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Sales of note for 9.19.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September, and cardmembers earn 3x the points (ends 9/22)
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles — and 9/19 only, 50% off the cashmere wrap
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Anniversary event, 25% off your entire purchase — Free shipping, no minimum, 9/19 only
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- Tuckernuck – Friends & Family Sale – get 20%-30% off orders (ends 9/19).
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
SJ
Sorry for the immediate TJ, but I could use a good rec. I need to find a good psychiatrist in Manhattan who has expertise working with patients with chronic pain / chronic illnesses. I’d feel much better starting my search with a recommendation from a fellow -ette’s personal experience.
Thanks so much!
Would a therapist work?
Does it have to be a psychiatrist or just a therapist? I had a great psychologist who specialized in this: Dr. Ruth Livingston, 917-929-4742. Her office was on West 38th Street.
SJ
I was initially looking for a psychiatrist but am much more interested in the non-pharma side of therapy, so this is very helpful. Dr. Livingston looks excellent and takes my insurance. Thank you so much for taking the time to recommend – I’ll follow up!
Would a therapist work?
(if you happen to check back) I hope she works out! I have a chronic illness that has chronic pain. I found her to be great.
Sydney Bristow
I have a question that might make for an interesting discussion today. How did you decide what career path you wanted to pursue? Or if it wasn’t so much a specific decision, how did you wind up on your current career path? Are you satisfied with it? Is there anything you wish you’d done differently?
I’ll go first. I’m asking the question for selfish reasons. I decided when I was around 8 or 10 years old that I wanted to be a lawyer, but honestly I have no idea why. My dad is a doctor so I guess I wanted to be a professional like him, but the medical field was definitely not for me. I went ahead and followed this path without ever putting a ton of thought into it and now I’m not really happy with where I’ve ended up professionally and am considering the fact that I might just not want to be a lawyer. I’ve started putting serious thought into what I actually want to pursue as a career and am definitely early in the process still. I’d love to hear what others’ experiences have been.
TBK
I had a crush on a boy in college who was going to be a lawyer. He did a lot of trips to NYC to interview for paralegal jobs senior year and looked so good in his suit that I thought I’d like to work someplace with guys like him. I got a paralegal job myself (in a different city) and, lo and behold, starting dating a sharp-looking fellow paralegal who was law school-bound. So I went to law school (but not with him — we broke up 1L). Here I am married to an ex-lawyer, who also looks amazingly sharp in his suit (he has meetings on the Hill today and so was wearing his full kit this morning — damn, he looked good!). Honestly, I just fit in with lawyers. The way you need to think to practice law fits with how my brain works anyway. My practice area is one I fell into (because in big law they just stick you somewhere) but I’m happy with it.
Anon
I had thought for a long time I wanted to be a social worker. I went to undergrad all set to do that and had planned on getting a Master’s in Social Work. I did some reasearch and realized in my state I could still get the Master’s degree and get licensed with a different bachelor’s degree (not a major in social work.) So I majored in something with a different focus. In my last year, I decided I would apply to law school and see if I got in. (I only applied to one school.) I got in and so that was that. I had always had in the back of my mind that maybe I wanted to be a lawyer (have an uncle who is a lawyer.)
In law school I thought I wanted to do family law. But in clinic I had family law and criminal defense cases and HATED the family law stuff but LOVED the criminal defense cases. So now I do appellate criminal defense and love it. I am not cut out for trial work but love, love, love doing appeals. Which I didn’t really know would happen. I just saw the job application when I was a 3L and applied. It has worked out really well. Which is to say was mostly by luck. I would never advise someone to follow the same path as I did.
Sydney Bristow
Your path actually makes sense to me. You are helping people in need, just in a different niche than you would have as a social worker.
Criminal Appeals
I’m a criminal defense appellate lawyer too! Somewhat niche-y, so nice to see someone else on here:-)
Anon
Yay! Nice to see another one here.
Miz Swizz
I grew up in a college town, went to hometown college for a year (Psychology major, wanted to be a psychiatrist) and then decided college wasn’t doing it for me. I got hired on as a temp at my hometown college and a year later got hired on as full-time staff. So began my career in higher ed. I didn’t really pursue it but the college was and still is a major employer in my hometown so it seems kind of inevitable that I’d end up working there in some capacity. I’ve since moved and am now in a different area than where I started but I love what I do.
Killer Kitten Heels
I’ll play.
I had a list of like 18 things that I said I wanted to “be when I grow up” when I was 10/12/14, and for a while I very seriously wanted to be a musician (played multiple instruments, practiced two-ish hours a day, took fairly extensive private lessons/group lessons/summer camps/etc.), but got recruited into mock government and mock trial by a friend who was really into it when I hit high school. Turned out, I had a knack for the legal stuff, and was guided towards that (and away from music) by a pair of mentors (one a music teacher, one my mock trial coach) at around 16, when it became clear I didn’t really have what it took to be a concert musician, and probably did have what it takes to be a pretty solid lawyer.
I went away to college pretty set on becoming a lawyer, had a brief meltdown junior year, but went back to law. Mostly I’m okay with where I’ve ended up – I’m decent at my job, I like it (for the most part), and I get paid pretty well to do it.
The thing I wish I’d done differently is that I wish I’d thought longer-term about what I wanted my life to look like beyond law school, because had I done so, I think I would’ve chosen a different school.
Killer Kitten Heels
I’ll add that my “I’m sick of being a lawyer because I’m tired and I don’t want to bill anymore” fantasy career is librarian.
Anon
That’s so funny! I’m an academic librarian and I love it. My bachelor’s degree is in music, but I knew I didn’t want to be a performer. I went to grad school for musicology. While I was there, I got a part-time job in the library. When I was finishing, I worked in the cataloging dept as staff and I was so inspired by the librarians there – and I found what I was really good at. I left there and got my MLS. My job has changed immeasurable in the past 2 decades, but I still love my job and wouldn’t love it as much if I was still doing what I was hired to do so many years ago.
Killer Kitten Heels
My HS job was as a page in our community library, and I loved it and the librarians there (I’ve also loved books since I was old enough to hold one), so if not for my friend dragging me to mock government because he needed a partner freshman year, it’s quite possibly where I would’ve ended up. Love libraries and librarians! :-)
just Karen
Me too! I still list librarian as my dream job (currently an attorney)
zora
when I was like 8, my mom volunteered opening the local elementary school library during the summer (long story) but anyway, i happily spent entire days alphabetizing books, because I had just learned about alphabetizing and thought it was the most amazing thing ever in the whole world. #nerdchild
NOLA
My brother’s best friend’s older brother worked at our tiny little local public library branch and I used to looooove going in there to explore (I was a voracious reader) and felt so special that I was just a little kid but I knew one of the adults who worked there. It never occurred to me to work in a library back then.
ExcelNinja ,,,^..^,,,
I’m just starting piano lessons and my fantasy is that I’ll become YouTube famous and quit my job to travel around the world playing piano and staying in fancy hotels :-)
Famouscait
I grew up as a talented musical theatre nut and went through a highly competitive college audition process to win a slot at a good school. Halfway through I realized that I didn’t really want to be a starving actor on-stage (and my intellectual side wasn’t being challenged enough either), and so I moved into arts management and marketing as a way to stay involved but more traditionally employed. I began working in more general nonprofit setting when I moved to a small town post-graduation that had no arts scene. I fell into fundraising because I was good with people and event planning. I’m now fundraising for the arts and while I do enjoy it, I’d prefer that this is my last job working for someone else. Both of my parents were small business owners, so while being an entrepreneur scares me, I think its where I’m headed next. Specifically to a non-office type setting.
Wildkitten
NIATA is real?
RR
I did better on the LSAT than the GRE and thought the law was a good way to make money with a liberal arts degree. I was one of the lucky ones. I love being a lawyer. I can’t imagine anything else I could do better or enjoy more. But, I didn’t exactly come to it through deep pondering.
anon-oh-no
this is interesting. I came across the profession of law much like you did — i decided i wanted to be a lawyer at a very young age, despite having no lawyers in the family. And my parents were sales reps and worked from home, so it wasnt even like i had some sort of traditional “professional” to look up to.
However, my result has been very different. I love what i do. I loved law school and I love being a lawyer. I’ve loved every type of litigation related law that i have tried/practiced (i did some transactional work my 2L summer and did not like that) and i really cant imagine doing anything different. And if i ever decide i want to stop working, it will only be to hang out with my kids more, and even then, i will still do some pro bono work.
I know there are a lot of people who dont like being a lawyer, and there are a lot who do. I cant imagine continuing to work at something that you dont like, but many do for many reasons. I’m lucky that i like what i do, and even more, the great majority of the folks i work with feel the same way. So given all that you have presumably put in to becoming a lawyer, you might consider trying a different firm/organization or a different practice area — transactional vs. litigation — before you throw in the towel.
Sydney Bristow
I really enjoyed law school and there are things I do like about the area of law I pursued. I strongly considered going into solo practice but decided that wasn’t for me.
I really enjoy doing research and organizing a chaotic collection of information into a useful format. I like drilling down to the nitty gritty and am good at keeping track of all the details. I’m trying to figure out where those skills can fit into a career that may or may not be connected to the law so my training isn’t completely wasted.
Famouscait
Your response is probably why most of our fundraising department’s research unit is made up of J.D.s. When I meet someone who seems like a good prospect for a major gift, they work their magic to pull together a comprehensive profile of the person, their assets, relationships, interests, etc. Lots of detail crammed into a report that has to have enough context for myself or a college Dean to find useful.
Sydney Bristow
Interesting. Thanks for mentioning that! It’s something I hadn’t thought of.
Similarly, I’ve considered trying to do trademark search reports because I’ve focused on intellectual property law. I haven’t delved very deep into that, but the big player seems incredibly difficult to get in with.
Killer Kitten Heels
How does one get into that line of work? (fundraising researching, I mean)
Diana Barry
I totally never picked what I wanted to do as an affirmative thing. When I was 10 I wanted to be a fashion designer, kind of vaguely, but then I had no other thoughts….I was a good singer but didn’t want to go into music because of the uncertain income stream. I went to a fancy college where we had no good career services office and we all got the impression that the only careers were doctor, lawyer, I-banking, or consulting. So I studied for the LSAT out of books and after I sent out a bunch of resumes and didn’t get any consulting jobs, I figured I should go to law school. Sigh.
I have no idea what I would do if I weren’t a lawyer. I think about being a writer or a personal shopper but I don’t feel like either is a particular ‘passion’ to follow.
Anon
We had a revolution where we used to live. In grade school here, I learned about the constitution and BOOM, I was going to be a lawyer. [There are rules here! And people have to follow them. And I can argue that the first amendment means that my parents can’t get me up early on Sunday church. And no quartering of soldiers — word!]
[Then I watched a lot of TV, where everyone seemed to be a private investigator, which also seemed to be awesome.]
I am a lawyer. I don’t do any arguing (transactional) and nothing constitutional. But given the backdrop of countries experienceing neither internal peace nor the rule of law, I am pleased to be a part of this system.
zora
this is a great story ;o)
Silvercurls
+1. I’ve lived here all my life but each time I go into the voting booth I say a prayer of thanks. Despite our many collective problems I’m glad to be a US citizen.
Anon
Like Sidney Bristow, I decided when I was young I wanted to be a lawyer, though I’m not sure why. I remember spending some time with my dad in the local law library once. He has his jd but never practiced so I have no idea why we were there, but man I was fascinated by the books.
I do transactional work as well as work in a specific tax niche and that’s mostly due to the fact that I have a family referral source in that area. I’ve grown to love it, but I get jealous of many of the litigators in my firm. There’s so much more need to network with my kind of work, and I’d prefer somedays to crank out briefs instead of hopping from awkward happy hour to happy hour. While I enjoy my work, I often wish I’d pursued my interest in science more. But the grass is always greener!
Anon
How niche-y is your area? I do REMIC work.
Woods-comma-Elle
Fun game!
I think originally I wanted to be a lawyer at like age 8 based on watching L.A. Law. I then went back to that around 13/14 and then totally changed course after I decided I wanted to be a criminal profiler, then a forensic psychiatrist, then it was cardio surgeon and I got as far as taking pre-med classes in high school (med school is undergrad here) and looking into med schools but then after doing some work experience, I realised it wasn’t for me.
My dad’s a businessman and I figured that was as good as anything, so it became investment banking. I wasn’t really sure, though, so I did Maths and a social science as a double major (though in hindsight, I wish I had done Maths and a business/econ double major). I applied for some IB summer schemes and then decided that wasn’t quite right either.
I don’t remember at which point I went back to the law thing or on what basis, but I decided to do a business Masters and it was sometime around then that the law school idea reared its head again. It took me another two years before I actually applied to law school seriously (I applied then, but didn’t have the time to commit to looking for a traineeship that would pay my tuition).
Funnily enough, when I was applying for jobs/law school, I was trying to come up with reasons why I wanted to be a commercial lawyer and, at the time, I really didn’t know, but I came up with some stuff I thought sounded good (like how I considered IB and law, but commercial law is a good ‘in-between’) and were basically made up but, in hindsight, it turns out those reasons were valid.
I’m in BigLaw now and ended up in my practice area by accident (niche finance), but I wanted to do M&A or capital markets. Ultimately, I like it now, I go up and down a bit and I’m not sure what the long term plan is (not sure I want in-house or partnership, I like ‘doing the deals’ and the drafting which in my practice area tends to be the private practice associates).
For the record, at various points I also wanted to be a horse riding instructor, an architect and a fashion designer!
The ‘I could do whatever I want’ job would probably be sports pundit.
Sydney Bristow
Haha I drive my fiancé a little crazy when we watch sports because I say something a second or two before the commentator says the same thing. I think I may have missed that calling!
Woods-comma-Elle
Ha, indeed! I feel my chances of becoming a sports pundit have significantly suffered due to the fact that I have never been a professional athlete.
Anonymous
Sydney,
Have you considered the ‘staff operations officer’ position? Your description of skills/job qualities sounds like a good fit…https://www.cia.gov/careers/opportunities/clandestine
KLG
My dad told me I would make a good lawyer and my mom told me I would make a good judge (neither is in the legal profession although my dad is an accountant and therefore works closely estate planning attorneys, tax attorneys, corporate attorneys, bankruptcy attorneys, and litigators). I studied econ/finance in undergrad because all the cool kids were doing it, but I didn’t feel like I was very good at it and didn’t get great interviews and this was right around the time of the Enron/Anderson/etc. stuff so I decided to take a year off after college and then go to law school. I had a brief meltdown the summer before law school. Dad told me not to go if I didn’t want to, mom was pushing me to go, school called to offer me a massive scholarship so I decided to go anyways. After 4 years as a litigator I decided the law is not for me. I did end up finding an attorney position that suits me well, but I make about $10K more per year than my high school educated, blue collar husband, which means we make almost the same when you take student loans into account. I’ll keep doing what I’m doing because it suits me, it’s a no-stress 40 hour a week type job, and the benefits are good, but I’m not sure I’d go to law school if I did things over again. It’s hard to choose a career at 22 though.
another one
KLG, would you mind sharing what kind of attorney position you found that suits you? I am 3 years in and ready to be out. Student loans are the biggest (very big) problem.
Higher Ed Admin
I knew in kindergarten that I wanted to be a teacher, because my teacher got to wear pink high heels (this was the late 1950s) and tell everybody what to do. What job could be better?? I majored in elementary ed, taught for a few years, then earned a PhD and moved into higher ed. I still get to tell people (faculty now) what to do, but the pink high heels weren’t nearly as much fun as they looked when I was five.
emeralds
This is a really interesting thread! I’m loving reading all of the responses :)
I’m in higher ed, too, although on the student affairs/programming side. (Or, well, I’m in grad school.) I always knew I wanted to do something with an international bent, since I love traveling and foreign languages. I went into college planning to study international relations, since I did a lot of politics-y stuff in high school, but I quickly found that I didn’t really mesh with the hyper-competitive, argumentative-for-the-sake-of-being-argumentative atmosphere in my university’s politics department. When I studied abroad as an undergrad, a lightbulb went off for me that I could actually have that as a job, and I started working in my university’s study abroad office when I got back to campus. I couldn’t find a job in that specific niche right out of college, so I worked in positions with a lot of cross-over skills for a few years, and am now in grad school for higher ed admin, with an internship in education abroad that I love. I graduate this year, and so far have had decent luck with getting interviews, so I’m really hoping that I manage to get into my specific focus area now!
My alternate career would be to go into the State Department. I passed the exam my last year of college, but dropped out of the interview process because I had a job offer. I still think that if higher ed doesn’t end up working for me long term, I’ll end up in public diplomacy.
hoola hoopa
I had a wide variety of interests and talents but never felt pulled in any one direction. I spent my first two years of undergrad trying engineering, medicine, economics… I was about to take a break from school when I randomly took a public health course to fulfill a core requirement, and I really loved it. I missed math courses, so I decided to major in both. Then I found out about epidemiology, which combined the two interests. It’s the perfect field for me.
Anon
I always liked physics and Mathematics and wanted to be a physicist and teach physics. But my parents were not happy. They would have not stopped me from learning pure science I could sense they were not very excited either. They had just two things on their mind for me. I should either become a physician or an engineer. So obvious choice for me was engineering…I am happy with the position I am in today. I found a specialization in engineering that got me excited and I am making a career out of it. But I constantly dream of teaching engineering now.. :-) I always take the responsibility of mentoring new team members to satisfy my urge to teach..
Ru
Hello fellow engineer! I have a similar-ish story. I was supposed to become a physics professor like my father. And that’s what I would tell people when I was younger (plus teachers give out stickers, which has to be the best thing ever). Only, when I started studying physics, I realized that I was not smart enough to get to the cool modern physics that I wanted to focus on. So I switched to engineering and never looked back. And it’s wonderful.
Amanda
When I went off to my small liberal arts college, I wanted to go into marketing – but I discovered my freshman year that I liked finance and economics then, so I majored in that with grand plans to be a CFA. Cue graduation and cue the dotcom crash. I went home, worked in retail for a year, and out of desperation applied for graduate school in library science.
Initially I went in wanting to be an academic librarian, but quickly found that wasn’t for me, and I ended up in the niche of librarianship they call “special libraries” – which runs the gamut from law firm libraries to NGOs to prison libraries. I was in the corporate side, for a pair of consulting firms, for the better part of a decade when I was laid off.
Moved home again. Found a temp gig at an i-bank for about six months. That ended, and my current career came along just as my unemployment was about to run out.
After all of that, I work as a technical support analyst for a library technology company.
anon
I originally wanted to be a lawyer because I wanted to be an FBI agent, and having a law degree was one way you could do that. Then I thought, as I was getting ready to enter college, that maybe I wanted a PhD in poli sci and/or to join the foreign service. Then I realized, oh, social science academia jobs are few and no one pays you to get the PhD, and I interned at a think tank and I didn’t want that path with an advanced degree either, and I didn’t think I wanted to be in the foreign service after all (because a male FSO told me I’d have to leave my husband and kids behind – true, yes, but that’s not how you encourage young women). So I came back to law because I thought it would be a good fit with things I am good at – research and writing. And it is, though of course in litigation one does much more than that.
Jenna Rink
Oddly enough, my husband and I both made careers out of our work study jobs in college. He was a library page, and is now a librarian at a town library. I worked in a student affairs office, and went on to work in student affairs at our university. In fact, I still do committee work for the office that I worked in as a student. The specific area I work in is totally random though – I wound up there completely by chance after the job I was hired for shifted into the one I have now. I like it, but I’m very aware that I will need to make a shift relatively soon to avoid career stagnation. I work in support of a particular affinity group that I have nothing in common with, and jobs in my area frequently require candidates to be members of that group or at least have a close connection. I will probably have to move sideways in order to move up, but I think that’s very normal for people in my area of higher ed.
Anon99
I’m a software product architect. Software is where otherwise-directionless techies go, so I just kind of drifted there after a failed stint in grad school (very typical story for my field).
anonz0rz
Great thread.
I’m in finance by accident. I went to school for marketing/advertising, and during my post-college internship, discovered I kind of suck at it and can’t take the rejection of spending hours and hours on a concept I’m really excited about only to have the client poo all over it.
I then got a data entry job to pay the bills, got really good at SQL & Access, graduated to managing that company’s databases, went to manage databases at a bigger company, and then got into data extraction/summaries/reporting, then to building predictive models, and now working on being one who uses the models rather than builds them.
Through my journey I’ve discovered that I don’t really have a calling or passion, other than working on impactful projects and feeling like I’m being challenged & learning new things. I just interviewed an intern today for the summer and it made me remember how stressful everything is at that time, as you’re trying to “choose” the right major and a career for the whole rest of your life.
Senior Attorney
I was always interested in music and acting and majored in drama in college. Actually dropped out to go to acting school and become an actress, telling myself if it didn’t work out I’d go back to school and get a business degree. It didn’t work out and I did go back to school and majored in business. One of my required courses was Business Law and I was totally hooked. I still remember making an appointment to meet with the professor, who was an adjunct with his own law practice, to talk about whether he thought I’d make a good lawyer. I still remember his answer (ca. 1982): “I think you’d be great at it, but it’s a tough life for a gal.”
Heh.
I went to law school anyway, and he was right on both counts.
NancyD
I am in school district administration. I always always wanted to be a teacher and that’s exactly what I did. Moved around different grades in elementary school and found the whole thing fascinating, watching how children learn, figuring out how to help each one, etc. Because I was good at that I thought why not be a principal and help teachers help kids? Then after a while, why not be the superintendent and help principals help teachers…you get the point. I’m in a position now that is so far from where I started and requires such a different skill set that it boggles my mind when I think about it. Overall, happy with the work. Sometimes I fantasize about going back to teaching first graders how to read. I was extremely happy there.
Ellen
I LOVE the Blazer, Kat, but I can NOT wear pant’s at work–beside’s from the look of this model, my tuchus would be 6 inches bigger in the seat and that would NOT look to nice.
Frank is lookeing into an e-mail that Benjamins’ manager sent about the follow-up. I do not understand alot of it, but there is something relating to ACCRUEAL’s of expense’s that the manageing partner asked Frank to respond to. Frank is sweateing alot about this b/c he said that the manageing partner told him to ACCRUE these and they are now questioning them b/c it result’s in LOWER income. I alway’s thought that LOWER income was NOT a good thing b/c it mean’s LOWER partnership money. I will have to ask my dad about this even tho the manageing partner said NOT to discuss this with ANYONE! FOOEY–I am a partner and need to know what I am getting into. I can NOT know anything w/o talkeing to Dad about it, b/c he was the one that made me a partner.
Willem sent me a link to a websight with his picture on it. It was his gymneasium (high school) in Belgum. He look’s a littel wormlike as a high school student, but now he is older. I do NOT even think they had the INTERNET back then. FOOEY! At least I grew up with the WORLD WIDE WEB and AOL, and dad alway’s had me on the computer’s, but NOT APPLE back then.
Benjamin texted me and said he may be home soon. He want’s to go to the TOP OF THE ROCK. I wonder if that is any good. Has any one in the hive gone there? He also want’s to see if I can get ticket’s for Jamie Fallon on the Tonite Show. How in the WORLD can I get these? Are they on the Web? Do I need to know somebody? FOOEY!
Senior Associate
I’ve got a serious career question. I’m in BigLaw, and am a senior associate. My reviews are excellent and the feedback I get from the firm is positive about my potential to make partner. Are there any other junior partners/senior associates out there who can give me some advice about navigating the treacherous currents of this final push? I would estimate that I have 1-2 years to get this done. The challenge seems to be that I’m getting asked to do the work of a partner (managing cases, running investigations, etc.) but also expected to do the intensive, high-quality work of an associate who can focus lots of dedicated time on specific issues, research, etc. I also have young children, and the time crunch is just extraordinary.
Any advice?
RR
Junior partner here. The last year or two of being a senior associate is crazy, for the reasons you stated–you are suddenly the partner, the senior associate, the junior associate all rolled into one. I also had young children, and for me it was just a matter of putting my head down and doing what I needed to do for a couple years. Delegate what you can–delegation is a very important skill of being a partner (and a skill I came to later than I should have because, you know, I can do it more easily myself). Then, just tell yourself that it’s only a couple years.
A second big point that I think isn’t intuitive. Play the politics. Talk to people, lunch with people, make clear with people that you absolutely 100% want to be a partner and welcome all advice/help in getting there. Call on your mentors/champions or find them. Count votes if you need to and make sure you have contact with enough of them. So often, people overlook the political aspect. And many women fall prey to the “I’m just going to work hard and I’ll be rewarded.” It doesn’t always work like that. You need to sell yourself. (And don’t get me started on the people who pretend they “don’t really care if they make partner.” Everyone knew I wanted to be a partner, and, yes, it would have sucked if it hadn’t happened. But I wasn’t going to pretend I didn’t care in some misguided effort to cushion the blow.)
Finally, a tiny dose of unfortunate reality. Being a partner is great. You do get to have a moment of “I made it” achievement. You get to be part of the club. You get a bigger office. And then you realize that you are standing at the start line again and suddenly your points of comparison aren’t the other associates, but the partners–the brilliant lawyers, the rainmakers, the people with the long-term relationship with the important clients. You have to start all over to make equity partner (assuming you have a two-tiered system) or just to prove every year or two that you still deserve to be part of the club. It’s awesome, and it beats the alternative, but I think it’s good to anticipate it.
Best of luck!!!
RR
I feel strongly that it bears repeating:
DELEGATE!!!! Everything you can. To your secretary, paralegals, junior associates. mid-level associates.
(You’ve thrown me into memories of the last year or two of insanity before I made partner.)
Senior Associate
Thanks. This is very helpful. I don’t think there’s a magic solution to this work crunch, but I absolutely need to delegate more to my assistant. I’m going to write DELEGATE on a post-it and stick it on my computer!
There’s a surprising lack of advice out there on this topic. Kat, maybe a subject for a guest post? Maybe you could even get some other people to write about this (the commenters here, other junior partners, etc.).
anon-oh-no
this. all of this. couldnt have said any of it better myself.
Senior Attorney
When I was a senior associate, one of the younger partners sat me down and said, “You know George Bush (Sr.)? Some time towards the end of Reagan’s second term, he stopped acting like the Vice President and started acting like the President. That’s what you need to do. Stop acting like an associate and start acting like a partner.” (Yes, this was many many moons ago.)
For some reason that really resonated with me and helped me on the final push.
mascot
I need to write that down and stick it in my desk. That resonates with me as well.
cbackson
No advice, just sympathy – I have no small kids, but otherwise I totally sympathize. Trying to find the business development time when I’m billing 2300+ and trying to have a life is HARD.
Anon for this
Reposting from the quieter thread. Here’s a doozie for the hive. I am dating a man who happens to be the brother of one of my best friends as a teenager, “Carol,” whom I haven’t talked to in a decade.
When we were teens, Carol had an eating disorder that, as far as I know, only I knew about. She rarely ate and idealized her disorder as though it were a person, nick-naming it ‘Ana.’ It was more or less all she ever talked about. I never told anyone about it, and I don’t think she ever sought help.
Flash forward to now, and I am in a serious relationship with her brother. Every time Carol comes up, all my SO is talk about her exercise and habits, which are apparently all she talks about. She obsesses over her workout routine and criticizes my (super fit) boyfriend and his friends (!) for being out of shape. Recently, she and I had a very brief text conversation. What did we discuss? Her exercise and eating. she seems to take zero interest in my SO, his life, their family. She’s also recently overhauled her life plans in order to spend more time exercising.
I’m so torn as to whom my loyalty is here. Part of me feels like I am keeping a major secret from my boyfriend and that this woman needs help. The other part of me feels like what was true ten years ago may not be true today, and that none of this is my business. I also recognize that making a major claim against my boyfriend’s sister could harm our relationship. But every time this comes up, I’m left feeling sick to my stomach.
Help?
Anon
Why not talk to your bf about it? The signs aren’t exactly subtle, I would be surprised if her family has never notice anything.
Lyssa
I agree. I think that you can make the observation and suggest that he/the rest of the family talk to her about it based solely on her current behavior, without breaching any confidences from when you were younger. They’ve seen this, but may not know what to do or be in denial about it being serious. I hope that she can get some help.
Bewitched
Sincere question: what makes you think your BF doesn’t know about his sister’s eating disorder (or disordered thinking about eating/exercise)?
mascot
I’m guessing that her “secret” isn’t actually a secret. Chances are that someone else has caught on to it the intervening 10 years. If you want to see where your boyfriend’s head is, a casual and non-judgmental, “wow, your sister is really pretty caught up in her fitness and diet huh” might open a conversation.
It seems like you have a lot of guilty over this..
TBK
I feel like I’m missing something. Why can’t you say to your boyfriend “[sister] talks a lot about diet and exercise. Have you ever been worried about her? When we were younger, I sometimes worried there was something going on.” That’s not an accusation. That’s just an expression of concern. I would think your boyfriend would be glad that you were concerned about his sister. Or am I missing something that makes this more complicated than it seems?
Anon
Has anyone ever gotten to the point where they’re not sure where they want to progress in their career? I like my job, have a good salary, and have progressed fairly quickly in my career – I haven’t skyrocketed to the top, but I’m 1-2 levels higher than most of the people I started with. I’m in a field where I have a technical role, but I could also go in a business direction if I preferred (I don’t). If I start advancing any more technically or go into management or business development, I feel like I’m setting myself up to be a layoff risk. But at the same time, it’s weird to not have any immediate goals anymore. Is there a certain point in your career where you coast or is this kind of a rut I’m in? I just had a review that went well and my manager was saying that I could easily become the next level if I wanted to, but I was kind of put-off by it and I feel weird about it.
Duchess
I could have written this myself. I have three possible career paths, and one sounds appealing, but, for various reasons, isn’t possible for me. The other two, I have very little interest in. Yet every year in my evaluation, I get asked what my long term plans are, where I want to be in five years. I can’t very well answer, “Ummm, exactly where I am plus cost of living increases?”, but I’d really, really like to.
So, no advice, just commiseration.
zora
I’m right there with you. Have no advice, sorry, just commiseration.
My tentative plan is to find a therapist to talk to about this, to help me sort out my own thoughts so I can find a way to move forward, but I haven’t done that yet. But you are not alone.
hoola hoopa
I don’t think this is very unusual, but you should make sure that it’s a you thing and not an employer issue. It sounds like you’ve been very thoughtful about it, but I’d make sure that it’s not that you don’t see yourself happy in a higher level *at your current employer*. If you can imagine a goal someplace else, then it’s probably just time to move on.
Give it time and enjoy it. I felt the same a couple of years ago. I was working at the best employer in my region and had a comfortable job making an above-market income with good raise potential. The “better” positions even within the company weren’t appealing to me for various reasons (security, marketability, duties). It felt weird when people asked me about next steps… but otherwise it just felt nice. Eventually a new opportunity was brought to my attention. I’m still happily working in the same position, but now I have two promotions in my sights. I also realized there were very successful people who had chosen to stay in our position. They are well compensated, well respected, and have secure positions but also very marketable skills – so my third option is to stay where I am.
As for annual reviews, consider mentoring, policy/procedure/contract development, special projects, specialized training, or other expansions appropriate for your workgroup or position. YMMV but I also openly discussed with my manager that I was happy in my position, which seemed to open up more of those kinds of options because my manger knew I would be staying for the foreseeable future and therefore felt more able to bring me into the inner circle and invest in me.
k-padi
I was you 12-18months ago. I started networking outside my office and regular group of colleagues. I met a ton of wonderful people who were taking risks and trying new things. I did all the discernment and goal setting activities I could find.
Then I was offered an opportunity that I really couldn’t refuse. My advice is get out there and meet new people, try new things. You will figure out what you want and, hopefully, the right opportunitywill find you!
Miz Swizz
Shopping challenge of sorts:
After a few months of culling my work wardrobe, I realize I need at least one more pair of work appropriate flats, at least one pair of not black, not grey work pants and some mid-weight jackets. I’m going to a conference at the end of March in Colorado so my timeline is a little faster than I’d hoped but the need for work clothes I can wear to a conference seems like an achievable goal.
What would you buy to round out your work wardrobe if you had a 4-day conference to attend where suit separates is probably too nice but only by a little?
RR
I’ve been working on culling my work wardrobe for awhile too. As I think about your question, I think I’m down to three things:
1. A nice, classic, but interesting gray blazer that I can wear with black or navy pants.
2. A second pair of black flats.
3. A pair of red heels with a 1-2″ heel.
I’m kind of proud of myself that I’ve done so well with culling/supplementing the wardrobe. A year ago, this would have been a very long list.
S in Chicago
My go-to conference shoes are Cole Haan air tali lace-ups–the rubber sole and slight wedge are wonderful. I can’t do most flats well becasue of lack of arch support, but the air tali style (not air talia) always work for me. I now own in black, silver, rosegold, brown, and red. That is seriously how amazing they are. Not cheap–I usually stalk 6 p.m. and Amazon and nab for around $100-$120 on sale (usually run close to $160 full price I believe). But worth the investment to not have sore toes or heels.
If it’s a non-suit situation, I usually pair a pencil skirt (suiting fabric) with a nice cardigan or blouse. If there is a chance I’ll be at cocktails or a business dinner, I’ll pack a wrap dress and statement necklace. I would also try to purchase in the same color family if possible (either beiges or grays) that can also add some versatility.
Hale
How long do you expect your shoes to last? I seem to wear through mine quickly (~6months to 2 years), especially the ones I walk home in. I don’t know whether my expectations are too high, or if I pick poor quality shoes.
Wildkitten
My commute shoes wear out pretty darn fast – like 6 months. My fancy at-work heels (Cole Haan) last years but that includes having them reheeled when the tips wear down.
Cb
4 months of consistent wear for flats? I walk a lot though (about 30-35 miles a week) and tend to wear the same pair pretty consistently during the summer months.
I am a banana.
Same, both on the time and the walking amount.
Sydney Bristow
I get about 4-6 months for flats I wear regularly at work and walking to/from the subway. I’ve wondered if buying a more expensive pair would help but it sounds like it probably wouldn’t make much difference.
Pink
I’ve discovered it doesn’t. I paid $70-85 for colehaans and geox flats in 2011 and now they’re both beaten down/trashed by Dec 2013, even the one that I wear only at the office and occasionally home in good weather.
Wildkitten
Yeah Cole Haan flats don’t have much to the sole.
Anonymous
Some will, but you have to climb the price scale quite a bit (for example, Lanvins @ ~$500)
Sydney Bristow
Good to know, thanks.
Anon
I’ve found it matters. I used to buy cheap black patent pumps & each pair lasted 6 mos or less. Switched to LK Bennets about 3 years ago & am still wearing the same pair & they look brand new.
Anon
I have a pair of Kelly & Katie flats from Zappos that cost $30 and lasted nearly two years. I used them for commuting for about a year and a half and just office wear the other six months. In fact, I still wear them but shouldn’t since the sole is finally coming off at the tip.
Anon
Whoops, DSW, not Zappos.
Fishie
I commute in Dansko clogs. The last like crazy, are super comfortable. I don’t think they’re hideous – definitely clunky, sort of euro. Once springtime comes I switch to Steve Madden flats. They’re pretty cheap so if I have to replace them each year that’s fine with me.
bhldn?
Any experience with bhldn, Anthro’s wedding brand? I’m considering buying their Ainsley dress in navy for an early March black-tie optional wedding.
If not this dress (link to come) any recs for a dress idea? Something above-the-knee and A-line and flattering but cute? My boyfriend is wearing a dark brown suit, so I thought a navy dress might be pretty.
Can I wear red patent pumps with a navy dress to a wedding? If so, what color wrap?
bhldn?
The dress: http://www.bhldn.com/product/ainsley-dress-rose
SMSS
If you haven’t already, I’d warn that you should try it on in person. We tried out several BHLDN dresses for my wedding that were so charming on hanger/model, and just dreadful on a real person’s body.
Wildkitten
PSA- There’s Boden Coupon ($35 for $50) on RueLaLa
How do I stop blushing all the time?
I’m trying to figure out how I can control blushing. I’ve worked in my current role for about three years. I’m one of the younger people on a senior team in an organization and have a fairly prominent role. I started a few years ago feeling kind of insecure, impostor syndrome and all that.
Since then I’ve dealt pretty well with those feelings and I feel pretty confident about where I am, and where I’m going. However – I turn bright red quite often and I think it makes me look insecure/nervous/etc. Even when I don’t feel that way. I used to turn red all the time talking to my boss – but after three years, I think I’m more comfortable and it doesn’t happen as much. But bigger meetings, more senior officials, etc – and there I go. My face turns bright red, my neck gets hive-y, and it makes me uncomfortable – both because other people can notice, but also because in this cold, dry weather it actually hurts a little.
I don’t know where to start! I use sensitive skin products, I try very hard to have an internal dialogue with myself that I am comfortable, confident, etc.
Anyone dealt with this and have any advice? Thanks so much.
Orangerie
No snark intended: there was a Grey’s Anatomy episode about this several years ago. Have you consulted a medical professional?
How do I stop blushing all the time?
OP here – sorry, I hit report by accident.
haven’t seen a medical professional. Was going to call a dermatologist – is that the right path? Will have to look up that Grey’s Anatomy episode . . .
Orangerie
The GA episode involved a surgery, but I imagine that was an extreme/exaggerated case for the purposes of television.
If it were me, I’d call both the derm and the general practitioner/internist.
Wildkitten
I’d go to a derm for sure.
AIMS
My mom had this problem when she was younger and she dealt with it by trying to will herself to blush. She usually had this around cute boys and cool kids, but the concept was the same. She’d just tell herself, “all right, c’mon, you’re going to blush so just go ahead, start doing it, c’mon, get all red so everyone sees you’re nervous… you can do it, you know you will, just get all red, get redder, get as red as a beet, etc….” And she swears it cured her. I’ve tried that trick with crying and it works for me too. Maybe give it a shot?
Coach Laura
I have done what AIMS suggests for years and it works for redness. Not sure how it works- perhaps it “primes the pump” so the redness is reduced.
jc
I can’t be sure – but have you seen a dermatologist? It could be rosacea. This same thing happens to me, and I’ve just gotten used to it over the years. I get really red in the face and also blotchy on my arms and chest. There are some anxiety meds that can be used to control it, especially if you know you are going into a stressful situation (like public speaking). You can also try blood pressure medication which will keep the blood from rushing to your skin. I would try to see a dermatologist if you can!
jc
I should also say that mine got progressively worse, and that doesn’t always happen, but might be a good reason just to check it out.
Talk to your doc!
I am a trial attorney. One of my colleagues had this same exact problem. There’s a drug you can take that will help quell the blushing. Good luck!
New to commuting
Yesterday a few people mentioned that they read on their daily commute. I would love to do that! I am starting a new job in two weeks, and at 40 min, it will be the longest commute I have ever done.
Unfortunately the company is in another city far from fast public transport, so I will be driving. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what to fill the time with? Radio, audio book and language courses are the first that come to mind, but I was wondering if there is anything I missing?
Where can I find good ebooks/courses/thing to do?
SMSS
Books on tape, yo. Get an Audible subscription.
AIMS
Podcasts.
Also audio books on audible dot com. They have a 30 day free trial if you google around for a promo code.
New to commuting
Thanks, will definitely try it!
Sydney Bristow
Look at your local library for audiobooks (both digital or maybe some physical format). You might also want to check out Audible. I’m not sure how it works but know its an audiobook source.
iTunes has a million podcasts on any subject imaginable. It can take awhile to find ones you like, but if you find enough that update regularly you’ll have plenty to listen to. iTunes also has free courses through iTunes university. There are other online courses but I’m not sure if its possible to listen to in a car. Khan Academy would be one to check out v
Ted talks could also be great to listen to while commuting since they are short.
New to commuting
TED talks! Thanks, I love them, but never feel like I have enough time to watch them.
I have Android, so I’ve never used iTunes, but I’ll definably look at Audible.
CKB
My library has tons of audio ebooks you can download. I was using them while I ran on the treadmill at my gym until I got their wifi password.
zora
two words: Pod. Casts.
I love podcasts so much, and learn so much from them. We’ve had favorite podcast threads in the past you might be able to find lots of recs by searching. But i love This American Life, RadioLab, Planet Money, 99% Invisible, The Truth, Sound Opinions, Fresh Air, lots of the New Yorker podcasts, the Moth storytelling, Freakonomics, … um, i think those are my top, will repost if i can think of any others.
New to commuting
Thanks, I missed the other pod cast threads, but I’ll try to find them.
zora
be careful or you will have more podcasts that you can ever listen to in a million lifetimes! (ask me how i know)
Sydney Bristow
Seriously. Says the woman slowly but surely filling up her huge new hard drive with podcasts because she ran out of space on her phone…
zora
Danger Will Robinson Danger Danger!!
Equity's Darling
The answer is podcasts! I have a friend that lives 3 hours away, and whenever I drive, I just load up on old episodes of This American Life, RadioLab, Hardcore History, Planet Money, etc.
I also love the Economist, Audio Edition. They read it word for word, it’s like 9 hours long, every week. It only comes with a subscription though…Worth it in my opinion, but not for everyone.
Anon
I listen to NPR.
Guinness Girl
Yes to podcasts. I love Slate’s podcasts – especially their Political Gabfest and their parenting one (I think it’s called Mom and Dad are Fighting). I’ll cast another vote for This American Life and NPR’s TED RadioHour – essentially a great compilation of similarly-themed TED talks. So great. (Yes, I, too, have a long driving commute.)
Wrap dresses
Just started really looking at wrap dresses. I like the BCBGmaxazria Adele dress in the various prints it comes in. I’ve been looking on Amazon, 6PM, Ebay. What brands do you like for wrap dresses? I’d be most interested in ones that are pretty versatile for work (business casual) and weekend (for things like showers, happy hour w/ friends, dinner w/ husband, etc.)
Kathryn
Crap! I accidentally hit report. DVF dresses are great, of course. I’ve gotten two of the silk ones off Ebay for ~$120 and they’re in great shape.
Famouscait
Interested in replies too! So many dresses I find are faux-wrap and I’m searching for real wraps….
TO Lawyer
Check the outnet – I noticed yesterday they were having a sale on DVF, which included a couple wrap dresses.
Wildkitten
This is gorgeous (not wrap): http://www.theoutnet.com/product/422216
anon in tejas
I like bodens!
Duchess
I got 2 of the Gemma wrap dresses from Banana Republic, and I’ve been thrilled with them. I have the green and the black and ivory stripe, and I’ve gotten tons of compliments when I’ve worn them.
TBK
Warning — baby post. I’m trying to figure out what I need for myself for clothes after the babies are born. I get that you don’t just jump right back into your pre-pregnancy clothes, but you’re somewhat smaller, yes? I plan to bring a loose maternity dress to the hospital to wear home (c-section is likely so avoiding pants). I also have some maternity yoga pants and a top that’s a maternity/nursing top. I just ordered a few nursing tanks from Target but the body part of them is “normal”. When will I likely be able to wear them? Also, I know I probably need some nursing bras but I have absolutely no idea what size to get. I’ve only gone up in band size (not cup) since getting pregnant. I’m currently wearing one band size up with an extender in the back. Since I’m not allowed to go out shopping, I can’t really try on bras to see what my size is right now — I just know it’s about a “B cup with a 36 band plus extender on last hook,” which is kind of useless. And then my night clothes are typically knee-length stretchy nightgowns (like this http://www.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=64648&vid=1&pid=941807012). Does that work for bfing if they’re stretchy? Or do I need special clothes for sleeping (or just nursing tanks?). And do I need bfing sleep bras? Being fairly small up top, I never even heard of sleep bras until after I got pregnant (and still haven’t needed them). Any advice?
mascot
I just wore maternity clothes/lounge wear for the first month or two. Those stretchy pants hide a multitude of leftover lumps. I wore the heck out of my Target nursing tanks. It may be easier to size for a bra once your milk comes in. I wouldn’t worry to much about sleepwear (you might leak at first, so nothing fancy). Most of my leave was spent in the company of baby, dogs, DH, and close family who really didn’t care what I was wearing or if I seemed to be basically topless some days (baby growth spurts).
preg 3L
So far (almost 2 weeks after having the baby), I’ve lost 2/3 of my baby weight but I still have a bump. The biggest thing for me has been how tender my whole body is. I went up a size in everything. Pre-preg, I was a small on top, and my mom bought me some Target nursing tops and the Large feels best. Main goal is no squeezing anywhere. I sleep in a nursing tank — once your milk comes in, you’ll need to wear pads at night (and all the time). I’ve definitely gone up a cup size since my milk came in, if not more. I looked ~7 months preg when I came home from the hospital but have gotten smaller every day. The post-baby bump is SO different though — it’s big but very very soft, so anything squeezing it was very uncomfortable. I wore only a bathrobe for about 3-4 days and then transitioned to nursing tops and oversized pj pants (no C-section scar to deal with though). Does this help at all? I’m kind of just spitballing… Good luck TBK!!!
tesyaa
Soft post-baby belly… I always thought my postpartum belly was like bread dough. It does get better.
Anonykitty
Yes, you’re definitely smaller, and smooshier. I wore a maternity stretch cotton skirt and a maternity tank home from the hospital. I think I stayed in some version of maternity clothes for several days, and then moved to cotton skirts with stretchy waistbands from H&M, Gap, Old Navy and loose tank tops. (It was early June and hot.) Unless you’ve gained a ton of weight, you should be able to wear the Target nursing tanks pretty quickly — they have plenty of space for your tummy and plenty of stretch.
Re nursing bras: I went up a cup size during pregnancy, and stayed with bras that are that size after giving birth. Your b**bs will be enormous for a few days afterwards, but once your milk comes in and you get the hang of nursing they _should_ go down.
Re: sleeping clothes, I found that I wanted to wear a nursing bra / tank at night. I normally sleep in tank tops, but found I really wanted more support for my sore leaking b**bs. Plus you have somewhere to put the nursing pads in (see aforementioned “leaking”).
Hope this helps!
marketingchic
You may be surprised at what happens b**b-wise when you bf your first child. I am normally b/c – but was DD when nursing my oldest and needed a sleep bra for the first few weeks. I kept wearing maternity tanks (and even occasionally still do – shhhh.) I also wore “normal” stretchy tops and pulled them down – the gown you pictured will probably work.
As for the rest of me, my belly looked 4-5 months pregnant for the first few weeks. A bummer, but temporary. This will vary based on how fit you were pre-pregnancy (me – not so fit.) My recommendation is lots of loose non-maternity tunics.
JJ
The first few weeks after I got home with both kids, I lived in sleep bras, yoga pants, and loose-fitting (or nursing) tops. I’d wait until your milk comes in before you get any actual nursing bras because the size can change so dramatically. As for coming home from the hospital, I’ve had 2 c-sections and was able to wear yoga pants home without any issues. At least for me, the scar was so low that it was well below where my pants hit my waist.
I think you’ll probably be able to wear the stretchy nursing tanks when you get home. The Target ones aren’t bad, but the absolute best nursing tops that I found were the Glamourmom long nursing tanks. I think the best prices were diapers . com.
I think the best things that I wore while on leave were cheap deep v-neck shirts and button front henleys from Old Navy that I could throw over nursing tanks but were stretchy enough to pull to the side to nurse. You’re going to be covered in so many bodily fluids (gross, I know), that you want something that can be washed many, many times and not care if you ultimately throw it away after a few months.
I had a few nursing nightgowns, but most of my existing nightgowns were stretchy enough that I could just pull them to the side, as well.
Anon
I always left the hospital in a nursing tank with a jacket or shirt over and a pair of yoga pants. I always needed one size up in nursing tanks and just wore those for the first couple weeks. Once my bra size sort of normalized (was still bigger than normal due to breastfeeding, but not as big as the first couple weeks after birth) then I went out and bought nursing bras. Though to be honest, I preferred wearing nursing tanks because then when I nursed, my stomach and back stayed covered.
My most favorite thing to sleep in was a nursing tank, pajama pants and a soft “sleeping jacket”. I don’t know what they are really called, but are made out of soft material and are typically open, but shorter than a robe or “house coat.” This way I stayed warm but nursing was easy.
hoola hoopa
Not familiar with Target nursing tanks, but my bravado all fit immediately after birth and well past.
Realistically you’ll live in stretch pants/skirts, nursing tanks, and cardigans or zip up hoodies for the first month. First week will probably be smaller maternity clothes, then it depends on your body and could be maternity or size-up regular… or for the lucky few, regular size.
You want a couple of each (nursing tank, stretch bottom, easy-access top), because newborns are messy and they’ll get you messy. Then buy as you go as you see how your body changes. I do recommend a surgical wrap, too.
Nursing bras: Wait until your milk comes in. I sent my mom to Nordstroms with my measurements, the saleswoman helped her get a couple to try, I tried them a home, then she went back to exchange. It worked well for me, and Nordstroms is close to my home. Love Anita brand.
Sleeping: Your breasts can be quite tender when the milk comes in and will likely feel more comfortable with light support. Also, a nursing tank or bra can hold a nursing pad for the inevitable leaks. You can sleep in a nursing tank or get an actual sleep nursing bra, like bravado. If you’re not sure you’ll want something, then just start with nursing tanks.
Diana Barry
If you have a measuring tape, measure around the bust and then over, and check out the sizing guide at breakout br*s dot com, and then I would order stuff in a few different sizes. You may be a different size when your milk comes in – I went from a DD/E at late pregnancy to an HH when my milk came in.
In House Lobbyist
My hospital had a boutique where I always got my nursing bras. I love the nursing tanks and always wore them immediately. I used Target mostly but liked the Motherhood ones better because my Target ones randomly pop open when I’m moving around.
I always wore yoga pants after c-sections. Just make sure you wear “full”panties and not bikinis to make sure they don’t hit at the incision. Be prepared to chage clothes several times a day, especially with two! Good luck!
Anonymous
I had a c section and could not have survived without the post partum panty from motherhood. It really helped a lot to give belly support post baby.
DC Association
Honestly I wouldn’t buy nursing bras yet. You have no idea what’s going to happen. I know you’re in DC area (not sure if you actually live in DC, or in MD or VA), but in DC there is a lactation center that will not only fit you for and sell you nursing bras, but they have free nursing classes as well. The caveat is my son is now 7 so I can’t say with 100% certainty that they’re still there.
As far as clothes…well I also wouldn’t buy anything yet. What you have now will definitely suffice, and Once you get home from the hospital, you will be SO ready to have an outing, just do a Target run for an hour!!!! I had a c-section and good God was I ready to go somewhere by myself for a short time…and you will need it even more so!!
Good luck to you!!
WestCoast Lawyer
+1 I lived in my Target nursing tanks pretty much the entire time I was on maternity leave. I’m not normally very well-endowed so I didn’t need that much support (was probably an average C-cup while I was nursing), but I loved how easy they were and the fact that I was still mostly covered while nursing (mostly because I’m always cold). I thought they were much more comfortable than the nursing bras. I’d buy 1-2 in a size larger than you would normally wear for the first couple of days home from the hospital, and then once you figure out the right size you can order a bunch more online.
Elysian
I love the Pinterest page for the sales! That’s so helpful!
s-non
Is this kind of open, collarless blazer okay to wear in a business formal, coordinating suits every day environment? I love the Theory Lanai blazer, but can’t spend that much if I can’t wear it in work, so additionally, anything similar with that streamlined, open, collarless look for less?
tesyaa
Although it’s open, it looks very tailored otherwise. I don’t know your environment but I imagine only the most straitlaced offices would frown on this.
ABC
I have the Lanai blazer in multiple colors and wear it to work all the time. I even wore the black version to the interview at my current law firm.
Commuting choices
I’ve always been a transit commuter but after a recent move (to a house with lots of other advantages) I’ve discovered the current bus/train/walk combination is a huge hassle in the winter (especially while pregnant), and I’m wondering if it’s worth getting a car and driving to the subway terminus (driving all the way in isn’t attractive because of traffic and city parking costs). Baby is coming in May and it’ll probably be helpful to be a two-car family then anyway.
– what’s a good car for a first-time driver for entirely city driving/stop and go traffic?
– is it even worth doing this if the car is going to get stuck in the same traffic as the bus (stop-and-go traffic for about 3/4 mile on the last exit before the station in the morning; people tell me it takes at least 30min just to get out of the station garage between 5 and 7 pm)?
– how do I get better/more confident at driving? I’ve used zipcar maybe a half-dozen times a year over the last decade, and took some refresher driving lessons a few years ago, but I still feel like everyone else on the road is an unpredictable maniac and I can’t tell what any of them are doing.
TBK
I used to drive a Honda Fit and L O V E D it. It’s much roomier than it seems for the size and is incredibly practical. If you really want a good city car, I’d highly recommend it (I can’t tell you what a breeze it is to parallel park). However, we traded mine in when we knew we were having twins because, with two car seats, you’re suddenly really limited on what else you could put in there. But if you think you’ll be a one car seat family for awhile (or forever), I think it would work fine. Did I mention I loved my Fit? Loved it. Still miss it.
Killer Kitten Heels
Seconding the Honda Fit recommendation – it’s a great little car, and roomier than it seems.
I have the Prius C right now and am really happy with it, but I think the backseat might be a little tight with a baby seat (no kids yet, so I’m not really sure). It’s an ideal city car though.
I also have a friend who lives in a major metro who just had her first baby, and she swears by her Mini Countryman (she has the 4WD, 4 door version).
Your goal should be a car that’s on the smaller end, but with room for a baby seat, so any of the little “bubble” cars (like the Fit) would probably work.
viclawstudent
Thirded. I love my Fit, and it is really easy to parallel park. It’s not super high-powered but that’s not required for city driving anyhow.
I think your confidence will naturally go up with increased driving.
NancyD
Fourth vote for the Honda Fit. LOVE mine.
Wildkitten
I also have mostly not driven for many years, and I plan to zipcar with another driver in my passenger seat so I can recreate learning to drive, to become more confident.
Godzilla
The only way to get more confident at driving is to drive more. Train your reflexes and response times by exposing yourself more. You can do this!
Killer Kitten Heels
Oh, and this – I didn’t drive for about 5 years, then had to start again while living in Boston – it was nerve-wracking at first, but the more I did it, the easier it got. (And my car was a Honda Civic at the time – it’s a great car, but I’m not sure it’d make a good family car, based on the size.)
Anon
Love my Honda Civic! I think it is a great car to learn to drive in and I easily fit my two kids in carseats in the back. (the four-door version.)
NOLA
I have to say that I love my Kia Soul. I had driven Toyota Corollas for years and then I rented a Soul for a week and decided it would be my next car. Because it doesn’t have a long front end or back end, most of the car is the passenger space, which is very roomy for a small car. It’s very comfortable to drive. It is also the easiest car in the world to park. It sits up a little higher, which I like because we get street flooding a lot. Also, because it was inexpensive, I was able to get a lot of upgrades, like a backup camera, Bluetooth, voice commands, XM radio, etc. I never thought I would care about any of that stuff, but it does make a difference.
hoola hoopa
I was a long time bus commuter. As to whether driving is faster than the bus, it depends on the route but faster in most situations. Situations where a bus was faster or equal, IME (a) getting onto bus on second to last stop on an express line where the parking search at the destination took longer than the one bus stop, (b) extreme congestion on a single road to/from destination allowed bus riders to get off and walk faster than the cars who had no option but inch down the same road as the buses, (c) short trips where percentage of time saved by driving is negligible. Even in normal stop-and-go, driving was faster because buses have to frequently stop, are frequently cut off or can’t squeeze around, and can’t be flexible with route. The advantage of taking a car multiplies by the length of the trip.
If you have concerns, you could always drive the car for a week (or have spouse carpool).
Ditto Godzilla – you’ve just got to drive to feel more comfortable! You can do it!
Anonymous
“I still feel like everyone else on the road is an unpredictable maniac and I can’t tell what any of them are doing.”
Here’s what I do: assume every single car (including ones you can’t see) is like a you-seeking missile. Trust no one.
Also, get a car with daytime running lights. It makes a big difference in your visibility to other cars (and you get a nice insurance deduction for it as a result).
Wildkitten
I think this advice on how to think while driving is a terrible idea, especially if you are already extremely cautious/paranoid.
ExcelNinja ,,,^..^,,,
Didn’t see this before I posted my reply, but why? As long as you’re not being erratic/unpredictable, which isn’t the advice being offered, I think it’s smart to drive defensively.
Wildkitten
I guess I think if you need to be “more confident” at driving, encouraging her to be even more afraid of driving isn’t probably the way to become comfortable.
Anonymous
See, I don’t think becoming comfortable is a very good driving strategy. It’s the people who think they are great drivers and who treat it as something routine like tying their shoes who are actually awful.
Defensive driving is a pretty universally taught driving method, and I feel pretty comfortable with my strategy having driving for over 15 years, since age 14 (they let you drive young in rural states), commuting daily the last 10 years in major metro areas like Boston/NYC/Houston, and ZERO accidents.
Wildkitten
n = 1
ExcelNinja ,,,^..^,,,
+1
I got my license late in life (mid 20’s), AND my dad died in a car accident, so I just always assume everyone is out to get me. I’ve never had an accident (knock on wood).
Anon
I love my mini cooper for city driving – it’s tiny & fits in all the parking spots. It’s also substantial enough that I feel good on the highway in it. Not sure how it would be in snow. I used to drive a larger car & am not a “confident” driver, but I found having a smaller car has made me feel much better on the road – I don’t feel like I might bump into things accidentally any more.
NYC
I haven’t been posting much of late (trying to shop less, so avoid the site…), but could use some advice of the hive. Up until now, I have been on a fairly prestigious, ambitious track (good law school, clerked, now senior associate at a white shoe firm). I love being a lawyer and practicing law and don’t have any intention to stop working. I also have a hubby and kid I love, and a non-work life I really enjoy. Part of me wants to stay in NYC forever and practice law at a really high level, but part of me wants to move to a smaller, more manageable city (and take a job that would be slightly less insane/demanding). The latter is also what DH wants. I guess what I can’t sort out is how much the prestige factor of location and the job matters to me. Part of me (the vain part) would be embarrassed to say I’m going to some small city to take a job that is not nearly as fancy. Another part of me thinks this is silly, and that I should be happy moving to a nice place and having a good job and being able to afford a house and school and bla, bla. I know these are all good choices, so I hope you won’t think me ungrateful. I guess I just can’t decide if at some point I would regret dialing it back a little bit.
Killer Kitten Heels
What about a high-prestige but lower-demand job in either NYC or a smaller city? I’m thinking something like AUSA, or working for a fed agency (like, say, the SEC if you are presently a securities lawyer) – that’d preserve your option to resume fancy-pants practice at a later date if you so choose (since plenty of white shoe firms are happy to have a former AUSA/SEC person/etc.), while given you a little more freedom to enjoy your family and home life right now.
NYC
I guess I’m coming at it with the assumption that if I take, say, an AUSA gig in a smaller city, that would be my main move. I might be able to move to a firm in that small city, but never be able to trade back up to fancy firm in big city. Maybe this is splitting hairs. I really love my life right now, but how long could I keep it up? Part of me wants closet space and time to exercise (which I would have in my imaginary small city life, because presumably my commute would be shorter). I don’t know if in 15 years I would rather be in a position for really big deal work life, or if I would rather have a house and time to take a vacation. I feel the “lean in” message powerfully. But I also feel that I only have one life, and really enjoy the non-work parts of my life.
JJ
How much does your husband want to move? Are you realistically on partner track? If you’re happy for now, why not stay where you are until you make partner? That’s a big accomplishment that you can be proud of. And, you’d probably have better opportunities to move somewhere else as a partner than as a senior associate.
Killer Kitten Heels
I think you’re right that AUSA in small city = probably not going back to white-shoe-big-firm in NYC, but what about AUSA in NYC? Or a specialist agency related to your current practice area that would add to your expertise? And is it really so bad if your exit option is “partner in biggest firm in smaller-than-NYC city”?
I’m going to be honest here, there is nothing in your posts so far that makes you sound like you want to scale back on your career. It sounds to me like it’s what your husband wants you to do, and what you think you “should” do, but it doesn’t really sound like you’re all that interested in it.
You’re probably getting bombarded in your everyday life with all of the “your kid is only little once, you will CHERISH THESE MOMENTS DO NOT MISS THEM,” and I have no kids of my own so I can’t speak to the truth of any of that, but if your career (and the fact that that career is in NYC) is an important part of your identity, I’m not sure how well it’s going to sit with you to give up a major piece of your identity for your family. I know enough people who were raised by mothers who did just that without thinking through the consequences first, and have seen how badly that can go, to know that it’s a decision that shouldn’t be made lightly, and you shouldn’t feel bad about thinking about it as carefully as possible, for as long as you need to, before making a decision that will (probably) permanently alter your career.
cbackson
Seconding this. It’s rare that someone will say it (because it’s about as verboten as you can get as a woman), but I know women whose move off of the intense career track is something they regret deeply, and that has ended up being a source of significant personal and marital unhappiness. If your career is an important part of your identity, it’s important to honor that in your decision-making. It doesn’t mean that you don’t love your kids or your husband.
JJ
Yes, I get the same feeling that you don’t want to move, based on the language that you’re using in your posts. I have two kids, so I understand the pressure to spend as much as time as possible with them, etc etc. But I also love being a lawyer and love what I do and I know that I’m a better mom because I enjoy my job. If things are still good now, I wouldn’t borrow problems by wondering if things will *stay* good.
NYC
I so appreciate the honest read, because I think that is right. It is hard to talk about this kind of thing with people, and I am really happy to have this community and all this helpful feedback.
I think there are really 3 options: NYC, Other Big City, Small City. In my heart, I know I am okay with the first two, but have doubts about the latter. I keep thinking that I can make it work (because that is more of what the hubs wants), but it is important for me to really think about it and the potential consequences (resentment, etc). I think I also need to respect the gut.
Killer Kitten Heels
Yes, respect the gut.
We can all share our personal stories and those of our friends and coworkers, and tell you all about women who “leaned in” who are perfectly happy/miserable, and about women who leaned out who are perfectly happy/miserable, and about women who left the workforce entirely who are perfectly happy/miserable, but at the end of the day, only you know where you’ll fall on the happy/miserable spectrum if you “lean out” or whatever.
And as for your husband, don’t be afraid to be frank with him if you do conclude that life in Small City is *not* going to work for you. He deserves to know that, so that the two of you can start working on something that’ll actually work for both of you, instead of him continuing under the potentially false assumption that you’re down for something you’re not down for, and you trying to force yourself to be down with something you just don’t see working for you.
new york associate
Just want to raise a point about the “Other Big City” option. That’s what we did – went from NYC to Other Big Expensive City. There are things that are great about it – the quality of life is definitely better, things like grocery shopping are easier, there are more preschools, the organic produce is lovely – but there are also challenges. Nannies and services are more expensive, real estate is still insanely high, and I still work a lot of hours. It’s really worth thinking about whether Other Big City will get your husband what he wants – my guess is that it won’t, and you’re really looking at deciding between NYC and Smaller Place. I like the idea of considering a NYC suburb. I know everyone in our generation moves to Brooklyn instead of the suburbs, but there are a lot of places that would be a short MetroNorth ride away that would allow you to do the work you want to do in New York, while still having closets and public schools. If we hadn’t had family in Other Big Expensive City, we would have chosen the NY suburb approach. I still have fantasies about the little town on the Hudson River we would have chosen.
One other thought: could you defer this decision until you make partner? If you do make partner, you’ll have more money to make your life work. If you don’t, you may feel differently about the work piece, and may find that you can have just as satisfying a career experience as an in-house counsel or AUSA in Small City as you can in NY.
One last thought: do you want another child? Or two? In my experience, you can do the fancy NYC job with one kid without too much trouble – but adding in more children gets more complicated.
preg 3L
I think short-term, you may regret dialing back, but long-term, you’ll have things outside NYC that you could never have in NYC (I say that lovingly; I live in NYC too!). You’ll never look at your child and think, “I wish I had worked more” but you may look at your career and think, “I wish I had spent more time with my child.” YMMV, but that’s my $0.02.
cbackson
Well…for what it’s worth, see above. I know women who very much regret dialing back on their prestigious careers. You may not say “I wish I had worked more,” but it’s possible to end up feeling like the choice to take a slower-paced job (and work less) had impacts down the road such that one might have made a different choice with the benefit of hindsight.
Without giving away too many details, I have recent experience of a conversation with a woman who spent some time [primarily as a SAHM; now she’s trying to begin practicing full-time again and she flatly told me that had she known how negative an impact staying at home would have on her career, she wouldn’t have done it.
Given that, I think it’s overly simplistic to frame this in terms of “you’ll never regret a decision that enabled you to spend more time with your children.” It’s entirely possible to regret that decision, from what I’ve seen.
Anon
Yes, but there is a big difference between dialing back (choosing to go to a firm with a lower billing requirement, choosing to work part-time, choosing to go in-house, etc), and dialing out.
I work in-house with a bunch of super successful women (and men) who are all very happy to have stepped off of the crazy billables partnership track train and enjoy being able to spend time with their families/hobbies/friends/etc. And we all still like what we do and feel successful.
So, like pretty much everything else on this site, knowing yourself is key :)
cbackson
I think that it’s rare for people to admit to dissatisfaction with “leaning out” – in part because doing so is seen as a moral failure for mothers. I don’t think I implied that the story I recounted above is a universal truth, but I do think it’s a perspective that’s not often shared. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard “you’ll never regret choosing to spend more time with your kids” offered as advice in this type of situation, and I think it’s worth recognizing the unspoken truth that you aren’t going to regret the time with the kids, but you may regret the decision that permitted you to have more time with your kids. Or you may not.
I had lunch with an associate yesterday who’s trying to switch practice groups because he’s bored with the “lifestyle” practice he chose. He said, “I love being able to go home early to my kids every night, but I’m willing to give up some of that in order to feel more fulfilled in my career.” I couldn’t help but thinking how socially unacceptable it is for a mother to say that, you know?
JJ
I say this with love (because I assume you’re honestly looking for advice), so I hope you don’t take offense but…this question is why the rest of country rolls their eyes at people in NYC.
It is possible to do very complex, high-level work at firms existing outside of New York. If your past is as prestigious as you say, it shouldn’t be as difficult to find a job with excellent firms in more manageable cities.
As for whether you should move, it all depends on how much of your identity that you derive from where you work. And weighing that with your husband’s desire. I will say that my husband recently changed jobs to a less-demanding role (basically, he went in house) and felt that his new role is not as prestigious. But he did it because 1) we now have two kids; 2) the bulk of the childcare was falling to me by default and he knew that wasn’t fair; and 3) he knew that I’m a senior associate and that it was time for me to be able to focus more on my career.
NYC
Haha, totally fair. I do tend to think NYC is the center of the universe (and realize how myopic that is).
Anon in NYC
If you or your DH is experiencing NYC “burnout,” why not spend a few weekend days doing a little house hunting in the ‘burbs (within reasonable commuting distance to NYC)? You’ll get the house, closets and the school system, but still get to stay in NY.
anon
I have practiced law in Dallas, Boston, and Chicago- all in a firm, and I did live in New York City for a time. In each city, there are law firms that have really great, sophisticated law practices.
I practiced in the two of the highest rated firms in Boston, and I would say that it is not worth leaving New York City for Boston. The hours are fairly similar to New York City. It is still an expensive city. Public transportation is not as good. Restaurants and other services are not as open as late. Good housing is difficult to find in the city.
However, I have found that both Dallas and Chicago are extremely affordable great options. (I think Chicago has closer to a New York feel than Dallas.) Both cities have a ton of really good firms. Dallas has VE, Baker Botts, Akin Gump, Jones Day. Chicago has Kirkland, Sidley, Mayer Brown. Plus, there are a lot of other slightly less “prestigous” firms that have great practices and slightly more work life balance, which in my humble opinion is worth it to see my kid.
I will admit that when I moved to a more work life balance firm- it was really hard for me at first because there is not the same level of drive and ambition. Sometimes I work a lot (over 200 hours in a month for several months in a row), and I get paid a lot less, which feels like a burn. However, because I came in with such good experience, I am somewhat of the expert in my area, and I create my own standard of excellence.
RR
This. It’s possible to have an important, prestigious career in a non-NYC law firm. People and companies outside of NYC have legal issues too. There are AmLaw 200 firms based out of other cities or with major offices in other cities with delightful COL and work/life balance. FWIW.
Boot conditioner
Also, there are a lot of big companies based in other cities that like to use “hometown” lawyers. Atlanta is a great example for that with UPS, Coca-Cola, etc using the big firms based in Atlanta.
Anonattorney
This attitude drives me insane. Eye roll to the max. I would say I’m sorry for being aggressive on thissite, but that would be insincere and I’d get called out for it. I honestly don’t understand how you can say what you said without being embarrassed for being so, as you say, myopic. I’m sure that I’m being overly sensitive, but I find this attitude insulting and disrespectful to those of us who live outside of New York and do, in fact, still practice at a “high level” (whatever that means). Please educate yourself on what kind of career you can have off of your island before you start creating fictional classes of professionals.
Anon
You could move to a slightly smaller, but not small, city, like Boston, Philly, or DC. There are still prestigious opportunities there and it could be a bit more affordable.
Deep End
I did the move out of NY last year. I loved my job (mostly) and could see myself staying in NY forever, but family issues arose that made it more attractive to move down to Texas. My first two weeks, which I had off between jobs, were tough. I felt sad about leaving NY/my friends/everything, but as soon as I started working I felt so much better. My job is still challenging and awesome (and I actually get paid more!) but I get to go home earlier without the guilt. I moved in April, got married in July and bought a house in September. The house is better than I could have ever imagined owning (3 floors!) and we never could have afforded something like it in NY. DH and I talk about one day, if we make way more money and could afford a super nice place, we would move back to NY. But for now, this just makes sense.
Some of my NYC friends def make comments about how they “could never leave the city” or “are just city people”. Two of my closest friends visited this past weekend and were shocked to see that (1) I live in a city, (2) no, there are not cows crossing in front of my car on the regular and (3) daily life and what we enjoy doing is still possible and is not all that different outside of NYC.
Pink
Personally, I’ve realized that I don’t really care about prestige (I say with my ivy degrees hanging on my office wall), but that in the end, I’d rather be able to do the things I love. Life is too short to chase what is (to me) outer badges of “something” if you’re stuck indoors and not able to do the things you love.
To each their own, and if you think you want the option of coming back to nyc biglaw, I had a mentor (and i think there are many) who have gone from smaller places to partner at major international biglaw firms.
Killer Kitten Heels
Random thought that just occurred to me – does your firm have an office you could move to in a smaller city? It might be easier to transition back to NYC under those circumstances if it turns out small city life isn’t for you, and you can always leave your firm for a small-city firm or government job or whatever if it turns out small city living is for you after all.
Anon
Agree with KKH. I work in a smaller city (Atlanta) and I know people who have transferred to the Atlanta office of BigLaw, worked here for a while, and then gone back to the Big City that they originated in.
NYC
Alas, no dice.
DC Association
I’m not a lawyer so that’ not the part I’m going to comment on. I grew up in Brooklyn and NJ, so NYC is my frame of reference for a city, what I compare all cities with, etc. My friends and I went into the city often when we were old enough to do so on our own.
I now live in DC…I went to undergrad here and never left. (When I graduated I certainly did not want to live with my parents, the job prospects in NY were no better than in DC, and DC at the tame was far, far cheaper, so it made no sense to leave). I dream of being able to live in NYC. DC is okay, it’s gotten so much better in the past 20 years, but it’s no NY and it never will be. The energy is just not the same.
SO if you love living in NYC, it’s going to be a huge adjustment living elsewhere. Just keep that in mind.
Good luck!
Lilypad
I second the comments about non-Northeast cities. I’ve had personal (pre-law school) experience in a number of cities and currently practice in Atlanta at an AmLaw 100 firm. I love it. Find a firm with its HQ outside NY, so you’re in the home office. As a litigator, I’ve been able to work on massive class actions and complex antitrust matters that keep me really engaged and billing like crazy; I’ve also had seasons of billing WAY less (I’m talking 1800 hours in a year) by taking on less complex matters or taking on a smaller role on the complex matters. I get great reviews, yet I’m home most every night to eat dinner with my family and put the kids to bed.
I think cities like Atlanta, Houston, Dallas (and probably others) offer the best of both worlds. The culture down here is largely family friendly. I probably litigate against top NY firms, in NY courts, in 75% of my cases (and I’m not a plaintiff’s attorney), so I know I’m not getting substantially different work than I would if I was at my firm’s NY office… I just work way less than they do, commute less, live in an intown house with a yard, have hobbies, see my kids, and can afford to eat at the best restaurants in town even while maxing my retirement. It’s definitely an adjustment – when I moved from one of the largest cities in the country (top 5 by population) to a “large” southern city, I hated it for close to year… but then the spring came in mid-February, and I found the right neighborhood to live in, and found my scene, and now I can’t imagine leaving.
So, don’t give up hope! You may decide that your firm in NYC is where you belong and are happy, but if you feel like you are missing out on anything in your personal life, you can try it out for a year or two and plan to go back to NYC if you aren’t actually happy. I definitely vascillate between wanting to dial it up at work and wanting to retire and spend the next 10 years hanging out with my family, so if you’re feeling torn, know that you aren’t alone.
Anonyc
I’m a day late, but wanted to chime in as someone who has faced/is facing similar issues–I have been in NYC since college and have at various points thought of leaving, especially after marrying someone who never really wanted to end up in NYC and always meant to head out to his hometown (a smaller East Coast city). Pre-marriage, I assumed I’d stay in NYC but hadn’t given all that much thought to it.
We wrestled with this issue a lot, and continue to do so. We’re both lawyers, and have flip-flopped between BigLaw and govt. For career reasons we kept staying in the city and are now probably here for the long haul, though not without regrets (much more so for my DH). That is primarily because we have two kids, and it is just plain harder to swing two working NYC lawyers with family life. You can have a good life but it is *so* expensive and the hassles are great; anyone who strikes up a conversation with me about school zones/daycare options/etc. may immediately regret that decision. Moving to the suburbs is not an option–I commuted to a close suburb for job and one year of that (after having our first kid) made me realize that spending 2+ hrs a day (on a good day) on the train would never work with our profession’s long and often unpredictable hours.
As the person in my family who was more pro-staying in the city, I feel you (because I am similarly myopic at times, though less so as we have moved into family mode). That being said: we’ve talked with friends who are at a similar life place and career place in a number of cities (Chicago, Indy, Miami, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Seattle, Portland) and their lives are easier, less stressful, and often more enjoyable. We are now far enough along in our careers that moving would come at great cost professionally, and thus is off the table for now, but nearly all of my friends from law school are leaving or have left for other places–and they sound much, much, much happier for having done so. I guess it comes down to how important the bright lights, big city prestige thing is for you–and it’s totally awesome and valid to feel that you now realize you can really make it here and want to do so (let me put in a you go girl)–but I also think that it’s awesome to know you could do it (stay here, make partner, etc.) if you wanted to, and just don’t think it’s worth it.
Finally: a gentle correction about the benefits of govt service being fewer hours–not so much in NYC. I know well that being a city AUSA (and they haven’t even been hiring for the last 3 years) usually means BigLaw-equivalent hours; other govt positions might have fewer hours than BigLaw but are definitely more than a steady 40-hr week.
Good luck. Remember, too, that you can always come back if you decide to leave.
B
We just found out that we lost out on a home we put an offer on. We’re feeling really disheartened we aren’t going to find something else we liked this much. Any advice for dealing with the disappointment of losing out on an offer/keeping going on the home buying search?
Killer Kitten Heels
Sounds counter-intuitive, but maybe take a break for awhile, so “perfect house” fades a little in your memory and makes it easier for you to start fresh?
Inventory should changeover drastically in about a month or so when all of the “want to move at the end of the school year” sellers start putting their homes on the market, so stay hopeful!
anon
The next place is always out there. Our first time out, we did not have an offer accepted until the fourth home on which we made an offer. It sucks to lose the place you think is “the one” – but in my experience, each new place was better than the last. And yes, you are about to enter the traditional home selling season, so keep your chin up!
question for the legal ladies
Hi ladies, this question came up this week and I thought this would be a good place to go for my own personal knowledge. Say Burger King and Company A are in a lawsuit. Company A says that Burger King doesn’t clean the equipment like they are supposed to. Burger King subpoena’s McDonalds and says tell us about your cleaning practices. Does McDonalds have to answer? It seems like they are totally unrelated. Can an individual or company just get a document from the court and have to give out their own information? I feel like McDonalds should be able to say its none of your business. A similar situation came up recently and I felt dumb for not really understand what the issue was. TIA!
anon
In my experience, this is when both parties would hire an expert to attest to the standard of cleaning that each thinks applies. Not sure I would win the motion to compel on that subpoena, as you would need to show there is a universal standard of cleaning first.
Anonymous
In your example, probably not. How McDonalds cleans its equipment is not relevant to whether BK followed the recommended cleaning method or whether the alleged damage would result if the recommended cleaning method was followed. But subpoenas are commonly used when their is a relationship between one of the parties and the third party. So, to continue your example, say BK hired Company X to fix its equipment. Company A could subpoena company X for the repair records (assuming that BK didn’t have a record of them).
I need to vent...
I work as a client service rep for corporate clients in a bank. There is an open position in sales for those same clients and its been open for more than a year. For the past year I have done my job and the sales rep. job. At the beginning of the year I received a call from the VP of my dept., his boss and the VP of sales all three saying that they loved my job and they wanted me to apply. Ever since then the VP of sales has thanked me for all my good work daily and promised to come and interview me personally. Last friday called my he thanked me for some reports he urgently needed regarding the clients I help. A week before that he said he was coming soon and that he was taking me to lunch so that we could talk about the sales position.
This week he came unannounced to interview other people and has barely even spoken to me…
He already has his agenda full and he doesn’t have time for me even when he promised.
I feel so bad and unappreciated, after all what he has been saying for the past month and a half.
I don’t feel like I can keep doing 2 jobs especially since in my annual review they told me there were paying me enough and that there wouldn’t be a raise this year. I earn the same amount they offered me 3 yrs ago.
Wildkitten
Assert yourself! Tell them what you need! Tell them how awesome you’re doing at work! Tell them they said they were going to interview you for the job! Tell them you earned a raise!
I need to vent...
I did in the annual review, I was told that if I wasn’t happy the door was open or that I could go downstairs and get a credit…
Its sad because I like my job but the environment and the management suck.
I think what really is upsetting me is the fact that its time for me to move on and I guess that kinda scares me.
I know I am smart, proactive and committed and a lot of companies would like to hire someone like me but because of loyalty to the company I work for I have declined some interviews hoping I could grow in this company.
I will pamper myself this weekend get a new haircut, my nails done and update my cv.
DCR
This is not a comment about you personally, but I always cringe when I hear a women say that she did not explore other opportunities because of company loyalty. Why, or why, do we do this? You were hired because the company thought you were the best person for the job. You still have your job because it is a role that needs to be filled and which you are performing well. If other of those things were not true, the company (at least the vast majority of them) would not hastate to let you go. Especially in a situation such as this when the company does not appear to be treating you well, don’t let loyalty stop you from making the best decision for yourself. This is a business decision, but a personal one – loyalty should not play a role (at least not unless the company’s loyalty is providing you good opportunities for learning and advancement).
LR
I just need to express my excitement just a little bit — I have only been practicing law for a few months and was fortunate enough to participate in trying a somewhat high stakes case to a jury. And the jury returned with a verdict in our favor!!
While I’m not one of the primary attorneys, I did a ton of legwork and research and writing, argued motions, examined my first witness, and put in the crazy hours. Am I allowed to feel proud of my contribution to this effort?
Wildkitten
Yes. Good work.
Violet
I’m a lawyer from Sydney Australia coming to USA in 6 weeks. We have visited NYC often, and will be there for my stepdaughter’ s graduation but this time we are arriving to Jacksonville Florida and driving to Washington DC , then train to NYC.
Hive can you give me your must sees on the route pls….savannah,Charleston,
on the list already plus a few others. We love history, food and water. Would really appreciate your help.
Alice
Not personally familiar with the area south of DC, but you may have more luck waiting 2-3 hours and posting on today’s thread. Sounds like a great trip, though!