Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Supima Micro-Rib Funnel-Neck Tank

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A woman wearing a gray funnel-neck sleeveless tank top and black trouser with belt

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I love the easy elegance of this funnel-neck tank from Everlane. If you’re in an office where bare arms are acceptable, this would look lovely with a midi skirt for a fun spring look. If you are in a setting that skews more formal, it would be perfect for layering under blazers and sweaters.

With a high neck like this one, necklaces can be a bit tricky, so I’d stick to earrings or a fun bracelet for accessories. 

The top is $40 at Everlane and comes in sizes XXS–XXL. It also comes in three other colors. 

Here are a couple of plus-size options: a Lands' End top for $23 on sale (1X–3X) and this Talbots shell for $79.50 with 30% off at checkout (X–3X).

Sales of note for 2/7/25:

  • Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 25% off your $175+ purchase — and $30 of full-price pants and denim
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 15% off
  • Boden – 15% off new season styles
  • Eloquii – 60% off 100s of styles
  • J.Crew – Extra 50% off all sale styles
  • J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything including new arrivals + extra 20% off $125+
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 40% off one item + free shipping on $150+

432 Comments

  1. My parents announced they’re moving to a small, rural town in the Midwest with no family nearby. They’ve only been there twice ever, both times to look at homes in the last 3 months, unbeknownst to us kids. I’ve googled the town and it’s 2 hours from an airport, appears to have a high level of poverty for that area of the country, and the house they already purchased and close on next week is within 3 blocks of both a meat packing plant and a huge rail yard.

    I have absolutely no idea where this came from. They announced it to the family via email. They’re mid-70s, my siblings and I had hoped they’d move closer to one or more of us as they aged but they were resolute in staying and dying in the family home. I guess I’m just reeling. They’re adults and can make choices but this will make any type of elder care so much harder – and I have no idea why they’re moving away from their community of 30+ years.

    1. Yikes! That’s very odd behaviour. Can you get one of them on their own to see if you can tease out where this is originating from? Can you have a frank chat about how this impacts your ability to provide family care?

      My father-in-law moved from England (30 minutes from one of his son’s) to rural British Columbia and it felt like such a wild choice but I don’t think there is any expectation we are available in any sort of medical crisis or emergency?

    2. Are you expecting to need to provide elder care for them? Are they expecting you to do so? I think if either of those are true you can state that those expectations no longer work.

      1. Yup. Ultimately where they live is there decision, but I think it’s fine to have a candid conversation that this will make elder care more complicated.

      2. +1. They’re adults and can move where they want, but tell them they will need to adjust their expectations in terms of your future support.

    3. Is this because it is all they can afford? Or do they identify socially/culturally with their newly adopted townsfolk?

      1. At this point, how would they even know that last bit? In 2 visits, they have met a real estate agent and maybe some hotel workers? Gone to no church or community organizations, broken bread with no local people. I wonder if they threw darts poorly at a map.

        1. Who knows what they actually did, but in two visits you can definitely go to church and meet some locals if you want to. I have several friends who visited our current town only once before moving her (academic jobs, this is common) and attended church on that visit.

        2. I moved for my husband’s job. Let me tell you, what I saw on the first couple of visits and what I saw after living there for a whole month were wildly different.

    4. I’m sorry. We went through something similar with my in laws – they moved cross country to a tiny town with poor healthcare that is an hour away from even a mid sized city and 9 hours from any family. They did it because they thought the area was beautiful and found my MIL’s dream house in their budget. We tried to persuade them otherwise because of concerns about eldercare, but to no avail.

      Within a few months of moving, my MIL was diagnosed with a horrific and rare degenerative neurological disease. Eldercare has been a complete nightmare. We moved to be closer to them, but we are still hours away. DH and his siblings have been traveling there and taking turns staying with them for periods of time since their dad is elderly and not a natural caregiver, but it has been harder on all of us than it would have been had they stayed put. MIL is likely in the final months of her life, just a few years after they moved.

      Hopefully your experience won’t be so awful

    5. My parents did a similar move. They enjoyed it for about 8 years and moved closer to a town that was about an hour outside of a major city and an hour from the rural place when my dad got sick. They loved their time. I’d check some of your concerns against what your own dream looks like versus theirs. One person’s “meat packing plant” is another person’s “but beautiful lakes and fields nearby.” They get to have life adventures and choices of their own, just like they allowed you. Does being near a city provide better healthcare? Yes. But also people have been living and aging everywhere. For my folks, when my dad did eventually become sick, they moved an hour closer toward civilization. This put them still about an hour from dear friends they made but into a far suburb off a major highway that was nearer to healthcare while still not feeling “too city.” They made really great friends there as well. They both have treasured life at a slower pace even though I don’t get it.

      1. +1 as someone from the rural-ish Midwest I’m slightly affronted by the tone of the post. Yes there are lots of bad things about living here, but there are lots of good things too! I think it’s highly likely your parents will move closer to their kids or at least closer to civilization when they have more serious healthcare needs. If they don’t, they can deal with the consequences.

        My husband and I both have parents in their mid-late 70s. Mine moved near us and fortunately haven’t had major health issues so far, but when they do I’ll be extremely involved. His parents live in a major city, but thousands of miles from their kids and they’re hermits who don’t have any local friends or community. Their healthcare needs have been more significant, most notably that my FIL is basically immobile after failed knee replacement. They can no longer visit us or their other kids. We visit them more frequently than before, but we haven’t been able to double our visits, so they see us less than they did before. It is what it is.

        1. You need to not take this personally about your beloved Midwest. OP is concerned about her aging parents acting impulsively and moving far away from resources they will need as they age – family and healthcare systems. It’s not an indictment of the Midwest.

        2. I’m from a small city in the Midwest and zero percent affronted by this post. I understand what OP means, and it has nothing to do with the specific location and everything to do with the idea of an elderly couple moving from an area with an established network of friends and medical providers to one with neither. They might be reasonably healthy now, but that can turn on a dime (speaking from personal experience) and having no established networks makes all of that really, really difficult to navigate, especially when they have chosen a place that is harder for family to access on short notice (2 hours from airport, etc.). My parents have two homes and I could drop everything and be at one of them in 7 hours, and my brothers could also drop everything and be at their other home in about the same time as well. They also have lots of friends in both locations that can pinch hit for minor issues or until one of us can get there for major issues.

          I’d honestly also be worried about the rationale behind this move, especially considering all the secrecy and the fact that they previously expressed a wish to leave the family home feet first. Is there any chance they’re following a cult or other spiritual leader to this new location? Or maybe some kind of missionary/service opportunity? Could there be something pushing them out of their current location (some kind of personal scandal that all their friends know about)? Or, as someone else pointed out, was there a financial reason behind this that you weren’t anticipating?

        3. I am in a small city in the Midwest, 1.5 hours from a decent-sized airport, albeit in a city with very good health care, and think the OP’s parents are out of their tree.

      2. Totally fair. For what it’s worth, they’re in a rural community now, but they’ve been there for decades, their primary healthcare is at Mayo in southern MN (which has already required a drive but now be 10+ hours away, so I assume this move will require at least some new care), and they’re within a few hours drive from us kids. I didn’t mean to denegrate rural communities, I grew up in the town they are leaving, less than 2k people with the closest Target store was a 2 hour drive (and no, we didn’t go – that was a special stop back then!). I fully accepted they would age in place there and with the community they’ve built. I think I’m just in shock they did this with zero consultation or heads up to us kids. We talk on the phone every week and see each other every 2-3 months. It feels they purposely didn’t tell us until it was final, as if we thought they had interest in moving we would have encouraged them to move closer. So they made a choice not to tell us to avoid that. Which is fine. I’m probably mostly hurt and confused. But I’m sorry if it came off as negative on rural. I chose to go larger population base as I aged but fully respect both your and my parents’ choice not to!

        1. With this additional information, it’s no wonder you’re shocked and confused. My parents are at a similar place in life (and location), and my mind would be BLOWN if they suddenly up and moved away with zero notice.

        2. Is there any clear explanation for their new spot? Like, I’ve loved skiing my whole life, but have never lived near a ski slope. I could see a world where I shock my kids and chuck it all to finally live near a ski resort after I’m doing being Responsible. Have they always wanted to live (1) on or near a lake, and this is the closest they can afford to get? or (2) in a big house? and same thing – this is as affordable as they can get? Like, think about them as people — is this what they actually want to do, outside of their relationship with you as your parents?

          My extremely frugal parents did something similar about 10 years ago – they moved from being 4 hours away from us to a flight away and bought a retirement home on a “whim” in a place they’ve always purported to hate (Florida). My mom claimed she hated the weather and politics, but turns out, my parents both really love being active and doing all the sports all the time. My husband says it best — they “wanted to want to” live near us and go to kid activities and find a dependable age in place where they can secure doctors, etc. here, which is what they had been discussing forever when they randomly bought this house on a vacation, but what they REALLY wanted to do is play golf, swim, tennis all day and go out for a reasonably priced dinner at 4:30 in a place where it is never cold. If I think about them as people, not as grandparents, parents, or aging adults, I can understand why they did what they did and now are so happy there. It was hard for me, as the solo child who is expected to take over elder care and was hoping that my kids could have grandparents regularly at school and sport events (no babysitting expected), to really internalize this. And, yeah, I did take it a little personally, but I’m really happy for them. We don’t honestly see them as often, but they are thriving right now. I also have friends whose parents moved for all the “right” reasons to the “right” places, and now the parents and adult “kids” are miserable.

          I agree with whoever else said it though – if you can’t find ANY logical reason for them to have moved, maybe dig a little deeper? But otherwise, I’m happy my parents are happy, and it seems to be keeping them healthier and happier than they likely would be if they were here.

      3. similar for my in-laws. They moved to the sticks in their late 60s. I guess they liked the place, they also were attracted to a specific neighborhood with a “community concept” that turned out to just be the worst HOA type thing that you could imagine. And maybe they were in denial about aging and needing medical care sooner or later – lot’s of people are.

      1. FFS someone doesn’t have dementia just because they want to move to the Midwest.
        People here are so infantalizing to older people. Every decision you don’t like is an “early sign of dementia.”
        And what, they’re *both* developing dementia at the exact same time? Highly improbable.

        1. I totally agree. Maybe this is the first time they’ve had the opportunity to move to the place they’ve been fantasizing about. Seniors are still grown adults with their own needs, wants, and decision making capabilities. They aren’t diseased just because they make decisions we disagree with.

        2. Wow! This is a little aggressive. I think a lot of people in this group are in the same boat caring for elder parents. And unfortunately, sporadic changes to views and impulsive decisions is a sign of dementia.

          Speaking from personal experience, sometimes when the logic focused partner in a couple is developing dementia they collectively start to make weird decisions. Whereas previously, they probably would have concluded not to make impulsive decisions. OP has a right to be concerned. And “A” has a reasonable suggestion to question if something neurological is happening to a couple in their 70’s.

          1. But inconvenient for the OP doesn’t make something “illogical.” And I’d suggest that some of you actually meet people in their 70s before jumping to dementia.

          2. Totally agree, this sounds like a personality shift and could be signs of dementia

          3. For Reasons, I am now re-prioritizing my later life. I may do a YOLO at some point in the next 10 years. What will this look like? Villa in Greece? Royal School of Needlework? Buying an RV and driving around the US? Who knows? People do the last item all the time and no one bats an eye, but what if you have a stroke in rural Idaho and your family is on the East Coast? People deal. If you go out beyond the safety net, that’s on you. They are adults and this doesn’t defeat that.

          4. OP doesn’t indicate it’s a personality shift, though! She’s upset, which is totally understandable because she’s worried about her parents and her ability to help them. But it still doesn’t mean they have dementia.

          5. They’re in their 70s, not their 90s. Dementia is still pretty rare at that age. I’m older than a lot of posters here and it just rubs me the wrong way that so many posters treat older adults like children. I wouldn’t want to move to the middle of nowhere and understand why OP is hurt and anxious about their decision but there’s absolutely nothing to suggest they aren’t of sound mind.

          6. While I understand that there are people on this list who had to care for elderly parents, people over 70 are still competent adults who get to make their own decisions. And there is definitely a tendency on this board to talk about people in their 70s (and sometimes their 60s) like they are children. Less than 10% of the population over 65 will develop dementia (and the chances that two people in their 70s will suddenly develop it simultaneously is vanishingly small). It sounds like these parents are moving from one rural community a substantial drive from health care resources and their children to another rural community a drive away from health care resources and a flight from their children.

            All OP (or any other adult child) can do is make it clear what she can and is willing to do to help if they need it. Just like parents can tell their adult children – hey if you move across the country from me I will be super limited in my ability to help you once you have kids.

            OP – My recommendation is to be honest about how you are surprised, honest about how this might impact your ability to help if they need it, and then ask them why without judgment. Because the fact that they did this without talking to their kids tells me they were expecting judgment and wanted to present the move as a fait accompli.

    6. My own view on your specific situation: tell your in-laws exactly how often you can visit, how much one-off emergency care you can provide, and then stick to that.

      I worry that this is a move to a LCOL area to cash out home equity. That can be a very smart thing to do, or can be a very problematic stopgap measure that doesn’t solve the longer term issues of getting older and having little money. It also offloads the costs to you and the other kids: time, flights, all that.

      On a personal level: I think parents, unless they are truly expecting no help in their old age, owe it to their kids to at least try to make life easier on everyone. If you raised your kids in the Boston suburbs and they all move to Phoenix or Boise, well, Logan is a real airport and they at least have the option of getting back there relatively easily. That option doesn’t exist if you move to Bangor. You are sick of the city and want the rural life? Well, maybe that should be somewhere in Idaho.

      1. So because one’s family moves somewhere else means you can’t as well some day because… it would be inconvenient to them and you should feel guilty for the cost of flights? Good grief. One side doesn’t get any more right to move where they want to live than another.

        I also think there is a time to grow up and view each other as adults with agency. The “kids” referenced aren’t kids anymore.

        1. Maybe read the disclaimer in the first sentence of that paragraph: unless they truly do not expect help in their old age. If so, you do you, but it’s unfair to live in EBF nowhere AND want your kids to help you.

          1. Right, I think that’s the point. OP’s parents made a decision that means they will see their grown children less often and have less care from their family members in their older age. They can make their own decisions of course, but there should be no demanding that the children come to visit and help care for them at the drop of a hat. Hopefully they understand that!

            I’m approaching retirement myself and don’t want to be treated like a doddering old fool by my children simply because I’m older. But that doesn’t mean my decisions are free from criticism, especially if they affect my family.

            In a non-aging context, one of my siblings moved across the country as an adult for a cheaper cost of living. We are all native Californians and yes, her lifestyle can be much more grand in a cheaper area on the same money (though not all jobs there are going to pay what a CA job would pay, so it’s relative) – bully on her, but her constant whining about why is she the one who has to come visit and why don’t we travel to visit her in equal proportion is really delusional. If you move away from family, you alone deal with the consequences of the decision.

        2. No, the one who needs help should be the one who moves near help. That’s typically the elderly parents who are only going to get older with increasing healthcare needs. Of course everyone is an adult who can make their own choices, but don’t pretend those choices don’t impact the lives of others. Just because my parents say they’ll live with the consequences doesn’t mean I’m so heartless that I’ll entirely abandon them when they inevitability get sick and requires care and support. Their decisions to live far away will place tremendous emotional and physical stress on their kids.

          And to anyone who says they’ll move when they need to: that’s not how it works. It is magnitudes harder to move when you’re frail and sick and you have to transfer insurance and hospital networks while in treatment. My sibling and I are on the west coast. My parents thought they were young and healthy enough to hang onto their east coast home. Well guess who are flying cross country and taking extended time away from work and their young families now thanks to a cancer diagnosis of one parent. Seniors think they’re autonomous and independent until they’re not. Don’t do that to your kids.

    7. My parents did this. They’re in their mid-60s and both in good health. They moved from a big city they’d spent 20+ years in to a small town across the country where they didn’t know anyone. I was very nervous for them but they absolutely love it. It’s a fulfillment of a dream they both had and are now able to live. They have tons of friends, packed social calendars, and are truly living their best lives.

      We are all in agreement that if and when they are not able to live independently or need a lot of care that they’ll move again to be in my city or at least less than an hours drive from me. I kind of think of this period in their lives as “retirement college”—they get to go have a blast and live it up while they can and then can move when they need more care.

    8. My sympathies. This is exactly the kind of thing my in-laws would do if they weren’t such cheapskates. Mine said they’d *think* about moving closer after the last health disaster, but then created impossible conditions (buying their exact house in a much more $$$$ part of our region) so there will be no move.

  2. Has anyone ever filed a name change outside of a marriage/divorce? Can you give me an idea of how long it took?

    My maiden name is Jane Smith. When I got married, I hyphenated and went with Jane Smith-Jones. My kids all have the last name Jones. When my oldest was born, I started going by Jane Jones socially. I’m not close to my father at ALL and actually as I get older I wonder why I kept the last name anyway – except that a lot of people called me ‘Smithy’ from college. Another bonus is that my married name is more ‘generic’ and I have a job where sometimes people try and track me down…

    Well. My passport needs to be renewed and I feel like now is the time to change my name… except I got married nearly 15 years ago. How long did it take you in a similar situation.

    I’m going to be Jane Jones socially and legally and Jane (Smith) Jones professionally for a while.

    1. I don’t have any data on how long it takes, but several of my friends changed their names after kids were born (so at least 5 years after they got married), and it didn’t seem to be much more of a hassle than changing it at the point of marriage.

    2. I’ve seen it done on this time frame. It’s still based on marriage, even if not recent.

      1. thank you both! In my state, if you don’t do it on your marriage license, you need to go before a judge. I’m wondering if it’s like a days/weeks timeline or a months timeline.

        1. Same with mine. I haven’t done it but a friend did and it took a few months as there’s also a publishing requirement in a newspaper (because it’s 1892). My advice would be renew your passport first, then change your name and get a new passport as if you’d just gotten married. That won’t mess up any travel timelines.

        2. It was two months for me to get a hearing date. After the hearing, you name is legally changed but then you have to get everything else changed, and as you already know, that can take a while.

    3. It shouldn’t be any different than changing it immediately after marriage. But you need to start with the social security administration. You can’t get a passport in your new name until you have a social security card with that name on it.

      1. +1. Just go to SSA with a certified copy of your marriage certificate. You don’t need to petition a court to change it. It’s just like changing it immediately after marriage. Once you change with SSA, you then take that certified marriage license to the DMV for your license. Then, you take the same certified marriage license and send it in with your passport. I’m simplifying it, somewhat, but that’s the gist of it. You only need to get the court involved if you are changing to a name that is not your married name or a prior last name.

        1. Caveat: this doesn’t work if OP’s marriage license or marriage certificate indicated that her legal name after marriage would remain the same. In some states, you specify on the document what name you will use after marriage and SSA will not issue an updated card in a different name than the one specified.

          1. This exactly and that’s the case in CA. I was expressly warned multiple times by the clerk when I got married that the marriage certificate was the time to make a name change and if I changed my mind later, there would be a lengthy process involved.

          2. It’s not super lengthy in terms of the actual procedure (although with the way the courts are backed up it may take a while). You just file a petition for a civil name change with the court. You can do it yourself, or a family or probate lawyer would probably be familiar with the process. There’s a filing fee but other than that it’s pretty routine.

          3. Senior Attorney, do you happen to know if the petition requires publication in the paper before you can file? That’s what I was told when I looked into and that plus the time to process meant it was anywhere from 3-6 months, which sounded lengthy! Maybe not compared to litigation though :)

        2. Not necessarily. When I was married there was a place on the marriage license application for each partner to state the name they would take at marriage. If you hyphenated or kept your maiden name then that was the new legal name that went on the marriage certificate, and you would have to go to court if you wanted to change it later. You have to look at your own paperwork and the applicable laws.

        3. This is not correct – she is changing her name from “Smith-Jones” to “Jones,” which in my state is considered changing your legal name along the same order of changing your name from Jane Smith to Julie Johnson.

        4. This is the way. I got married during COVID and waited 2 years to change my name so the various govt agencies were open for in person visits, and took this exact order. Once you have SS, DMV and passport done (in that order), it is all pretty easy paperwork.

    4. If you aren’t planning to travel, you can let your passport expire and still renew it through the normal methods, if you are worried that the name change won’t go through before the passport expires.

      1. We’re hoping to travel in late summer (August), but this is a good point! (Uh, my passport is already expired, lol…)

        1. Even if the name changes takes a few months, you can expedite the passport, which turns it around pretty reliably in 2-3 weeks.

          1. Expedited has been super fast lately, but can take longer if the passport office gets backed up, and it probably will as summer approaches and more people want to travel. I’d want to send it in by June for an August trip, which doesn’t really allow “a few months” to process the name change. But I’m one of those people who needs a valid passport at all times and gets twitchy when I have to send it away for renewal…

        2. I would renew the passport now (to ensure that you have it by August) and then do the name change when you get back. You can file for a new passport once you have the documents all in hand, but it removes the time pressure to get it all done.

    5. I changed mine under similar circumstances, except I never hyphenated, just went straight from maiden to married, 8 years after the wedding. (Got a few amusingly awkward questions from casual acquaintance who started to ask if I’d gotten married, then remembered I had already been married and trailed off.).

      It was a number of years ago, so I don’t remember the whole process, but it was surprisingly easy and quick – I don’t even think it was multiple weeks. I wanted to surprise my husband (though he had always been clear that he didn’t mind), and it was really easy to get done without telling him. BTW, I’m really glad I did -I thought it would be really strange and alien feeling, but I got used to it almost immediately, and now that we have kids, I’m glad we all have the same name.

      1. This is interesting to me! I’ve been married a long time, we have kids, and sometimes I regret changing my name when I got married. I knew keeping my name wouldn’t go over well with our families, and at age 23, I didn’t feel like fighting it. I justified it by thinking well, it’s nice for all of us (DH, me, future kids) to have the same last time. At this point, I’ve had my married name almost as long as my maiden so it seems pointless to change it.

        1. I regret changing mine too. It was never a question that our kids would have his name. He’s a “Smith” and I have a weird long Eastern European name, and we wanted our kids to have a name that was easy to say and spell and we also wanted them to be less Google-able. I thought we should all have the same name, so I changed mine. I regret it now. Even if my family name was going to die with me, I wish I had kept it. It’s my name!

          1. “It’s my name” is why I kept my name. I have a lot of issues with the idea that men’s names are their names, but women’s names are their father’s names. No, it’s my name.

          2. I took my husband’s name because it was a way to replace the last name I was born with and now it’s MY name. I would keep it even if he died and I remarried. My father was a terrible person and I couldn’t get rid of the last name he gave me quickly enough. I no longer have to see that reminder of him dozens of times a day.

          3. “I have a lot of issues with the idea that men’s names are their names, but women’s names are their father’s names. No, it’s my name.”

            THIS. This argument bothered me extra because I got my last name from my mother, not my father. And then people say, but it’s from her father! So neither I, nor my mother, count? The logic is insane.

            Also, my kid has my last name, and no one has ever questioned this at daycare, school, or when she has traveled alone with her father (multiple times!).

    6. Depends on the court’s schedule and local laws. Where I’m at, adult names changes take ~5 weeks from filing the request to getting the court order, because there’s three weeks of notice in the papers plus some response time, but once that’s done we’re able to see the judge right away. If you live in the city, I imagine you might have a longer timeframe unless they have a special calendar for this. Once you have the court order though, you still have to contact all the other govt agencies.

    7. I changed my name legally about a year after I got married – I kept my maiden name on my marriage license but decided to go to 2 last names, no hyphen.

      In the state I lived in at the time, I had to file with the court my request/pay ~$300, then get a court date, and then go to court. I had to bring 2 witnesses that knew me and confirmed that I wasn’t trying to change my name for nefarious reasons. At the time I worked downtown a few blocks from the courthouse and so did my husband, so I grabbed him and a close friend to be my witnesses. Court took about 20mins and then a short wait to get certified copies of my name change order.

    8. I hate that everyone thinks that women get their names from their fathers but somehow a man’s name is just his name. All the men I know also have the same as their dads, why the hell does it get to be “their” name but mine has to be my dad’s?

      1. YES. Nothing about being a woman means that I don’t really get a name. (Posted the same thing above.)

        My name is on my college diploma, law school diploma, law license, and published articles. It doesn’t say “Jane, daughter of Steve Smith;” it says “Jane Smith,” ‘cuz it is my name.

      2. I’ve never looked at it that way. I didn’t change my name because it’s my name. Not my dad’s. Indeed if I’d thought about that way, I would have changed it because I prefer my husband to my dad.

        1. I think I look at it this way because my dad left and my mom reverted to her previous name.

        2. I’m proud to have my dad’s name. I’d also be proud to have my mom’s name, which was her dad’s name, of course. But I didn’t see any reason to change my name to my husband’s when we got married. I was already working and identified strongly with my name, which reflects my heritage. And it’s my name, always has been, and always will be. It’s no one’s business, honestly.

    9. OP here.

      Thanks for all the discussion, it’s been great! Going to send off my passport renewal as Jane Smith-Jones and then process the name change later.

      And just as a comment – I am a bit contrarian and didn’t want to ‘lose my identity’ in marriage. Ultimately though, the family from whom the ‘Smith’ name comes is rather toxic and I am okay distancing myself from them. Firm advocate that everyone should do what works for them and that’s what I am doing here. What I want has evolved over time.

    10. I did in 2002, and it took about 3 months from filing with the Court to being granted. I also had to pay for a week of legal notices in the local paper, which was quite expensive versus the nominal filing fee.

  3. Hive mind, what do I need? I am the new-ish leader of what is effectively a 35-40 person non-profit clinic embedded in an academic medical world. I am fairly junior to be doing this work, but know that I can do it on a macro level. What I am struggling with is the day-to-day management issues: having the uncomfortable conversation about feedback, reordering folks priorities, following up on assigned tasks, etc. I need some coaching on this. There is really and truly no mentorship available within my institution. What is what I’m looking for called?

        1. Even if you can’t swing a formal chief of staff, you need to identify someone within the org who can be your confidant as you learn and navigate the rhythms and dynamics of the clinic. Someone who is going to tell you what’s up, who’s-who, undercurrents and unseen relationships, historical efforts, etc. Make the right friend, go so much farther.

        2. You’re in charge. I second getting a chief of staff and you can make that happen, again you’re the big boss. You need a bad cop and a gatekeeper. You can’t be the worker bee anymore, you’re not in middle management.

        3. Oh ignore my comment. I completely didn’t read the junior and this is embedded in a bigger org part. Follow Cat’s advice. I thought you were the exec director.

    1. Alison Green’s book “Managing to Change the World” would probably be helpful to you; it’s very practical. But I think what you are looking for is an executive coach, or management coach. You can also often find management skills classes if there are organizations in your area that offer professional development or capacity building workshops for nonprofits. In NYC, the Support Center for Nonprofit Management offers them.

    2. You need to ask around in other units of the University. Network, and FAST. Find out who the rock stars are – college/large department level budget/business managers, centralized grants people, etc and learn from them. A huge part of my success when I had this sort of role was figuring out who the experts were and who to avoid and cultivating good relationships with them.
      Academic departments tend to silo themselves unnecessarily at the staff level. Cast a wide net. For example, if the expert at sole source procurement happens to be in Fine Arts, COOL! The process is the same regardless of what is being acquired.
      The people with the cultural knowledge – where the bodies are buried – that you’ll need for some of the issues you mentioned can most likely be found in your uni’s centralized grants department. They’ve been dealing with the people in your unit for years, yet are detached from the day to day operations and will have a bit different perspective.

    3. HBR has a ton of good resources for new managers. I’d check those out if you’re lacking in-person mentors (I was, too).

    4. If you’re in an academic medical center, there is absolutely mentorship to be had, but you probably need to find it on your own. If you’re new to the role but not the organization, reach out to former bosses and ask how to approach some of your issues. If you’re new to the organization, talk to people at your level with whom you have any interaction. There are probably also courses available through HR.

      In the meantime, we’re a good sounding board. What is your most pressing problem right now? We’re rooting for you!

  4. I thinking I’m tipping for hair color wrong. Thoughts? Color (single process, covering my gray roots) costs $120. I tip the colorist $25-30. I tip the woman who washes my hair $5. But it occurs to me that she not only washes it, but also pulls the color through and applies glaze. Should I be tipping more? Different ratio?

    Geez, the cost of being a middle aged woman is a lot!

    1. I just tip 20% on the whole service to the salon, much easier. Can you do that? I assume they break it out appropriately.

      1. No. Little envelopes are provided where you write down the person’s name. I’ve never seen it where there was an option to tip the salon.

          1. They do it so you have to tip in cash and they can avoid reporting the tip income. I hate the little envelopes and much prefer the option to tip at checkout.

          2. I’ve never seen the envelopes either! Have always just put the total tip amount on the card and left.

          1. I’ve always had little envelopes and I tip the stylist 20% and the shampoo person $10.

      2. The salons I go to have never had tipping envelopes. You can tip the assistant cash or just include it on the tip at the checkout desk.

        1. Also, I have had this same tipping question. My previous stylist would highlight my hair and then move on to another client while I process. The assistant then washes, glazes and dries my hair. I’d much rather have my stylist stay with me as there is always a new assistant that might not formulate the correct glaze color. I feel

  5. I’m flying in to SFO this afternoon and have 3-4 hours to kill before I take the BART or Uber to Walnut Creek to meet a friend. Any recommendations for easily accessible activities? I like nature, stretching my legs, tacos, ramen, and sunshine. I’m a small town kid, a little intimidated by the city and complicated transportation. I’m also trying to drink less alcohol so no drink recommendations please.

    1. Go to Walnut Creek early and walk around their outdoor mall. There’s nothing right by SFO and it’s not enough time to get to SF or do anything that’s any different from WC. I haven’t been to that mall in a while so no specific recommendations.

    2. I think the biggest question is, will you have a suitcase or big bag with you?

      The SF Moma is right off of the BART line in SF, you can get off on either Powell or Montgomery. The BART line you take from the airport will go right to it. I know you don’t mention art, but I’m wondering if they’d have somewhere you could check your bag while wandering around inside (double check).

      Otherwise if no bag concerns, you could get off at Embarcadero and walk up and down the Embarcadero along the water for views and whatnot. Check out the Ferry Building for food/snacks, I’m assuming there is somewhere with tacos there (at least, there used to be).

      For Ramen, in the East Bay (general direction you are headed on same BART line) there is a great Ramen place called the Ramen Shop, but it doesn’t open until 5. Get off at Rockridge, it’s right there. Maybe wouldn’t be the worst idea to make reservations. If you wanted to combine that with stretching your legs you could take a walk along College Ave towards Berkeley and back to get back on the same BART line. Not exactly nature, but a pleasant walk. You probably wouldn’t make it all the way to campus doing this – you could do that and aim to end at the Downtown Berkeley BART station, but then that would involve a BART transfer to get back to Walnut Creek (which is not a huge deal but doesn’t sound in line with what you are looking for).

        1. I live in Berkeley and think Rockridge is a nice stop too but I agree not to try to walk all the way to campus.

      1. The Powell Street station is closer to SFMOMA if you want to go there, especially if hauling luggage. The museum does have a coat check. I assume you can check a suitcase although I’ve never tried that myself, being a local. If you have heavy luggage I don’t think you’ll have any option except to carry it around with you if you go to the Embarcadero/Ferry Building. Another beautiful place walkable from BART (especially without luggage) is Salesforce Park. It’s a really lovely urban garden a couple of levels above the new transit center downtown. There’s a gondola to take you up. In theory you might be able to check your luggage at SFMOMA and then walk over. The coat check at SFMOMA is on the first floor and you don’t have to buy a ticket to the museum to access it.

  6. When is the right time seasonally to wear gauze cotton button downs? I *love* the ones from j crew factory. Not too relaxed, comes in petites. I’m in NYC area and it still feels a little early. Wait for mid to late May, similar to linen?

    1. Can anyone share whether this fabric is prone to shrinking? I love the looks of these, but I have long arms and would not love this top with shrunken arms.

      1. I have shirts from another brand and I hang on hangers to dry for this reason. With that treatment, there has been no shrinking and they don’t require steaming or anything before wearing.

    2. I’m wearing a very thin one today (Sezane) with a t-shirt underneath and a warm-ish jacket (in NYC). Feels about the same to me as a sweater and a lighter jacket.

    3. Checking in from New Orleans – 75 degrees here today and wearing a long sleeved gauzy top to French Quarter Fest (shhh don’t tell my boss)

    4. When the weather is warm enough, obviously. The calendar doesn’t have anything to do with it.

      1. What weather is warm enough? That’s really the question. 80 degrees, sure. What’s the lower limit?

        1. Whatever you’re comfortable with, as long as you’re not one of those people who wears shorts and sandals in a snowstorm.

          1. Little harsh, don’t you think? Somebody spit in your cheerios this morning? Maybe assume the person you’re commenting to is your intellectual equal?

  7. I don’t know that I know about “funnel neck”
    What is the difference between funnel neck and a mock-t or mock-turtleneck?

    For what it’s worth I live in the southeast and the other day my son wore a turtleneck he found in his drawer and I said, it’s probably too warm for that turtleneck and he asked me what a turtleneck is because we hardly ever say that because we hardly ever wear them in our family. We’re more polo and crew and v I guess but I love a nice cowl.

    1. Turtleneck and mock-t’s have a stand up collar that is a separate piece of fabric and is therefore connected with a seam. They’ll sit close to the neck. Difference btwn turtle and mock is that the turtle has enough fabric to fold down and a mock doesn’t.

      Funnel (if we’re going by this pick at least) has some sort of standing collar that is an extension of the torso part of the shirt? So it’s not a separate collar and doesn’t have a seam around the neckline? I would say this type could probably sit further out from the neck.

      Those probably aren’t hard and fast rules, but that’s what makes sense in my head, as someone who loves turtlenecks, hates mock-ts and could get on board with that funnelnecks with the above definition.

    2. A funnel neck is cut on, not sewn on. It is not a separate piece from the main bodice

      1. This. A funnel neck also tends to be wider than a mock turtleneck and does not fold over like a turtleneck.

    3. Funnel neck I usually think of as roughly same height as a mock t, but a wider circumference. Made of a fabric stiff enough to stand up mostly on its own. As pictured I agree this top is closer to a mock t than a funnel!

    4. Mock neck: sewn on, but not enough fabric to fold over.
      Turtleneck: sewn on, enough fabric to fold over, or scrunch on your neck
      Funnelneck: As the 9:37 anon said, cut on. Usually not tall enough to fold over, but could be, I guess.

  8. Is there a way to tell your boss you want to be more actively managed? My manager is a nice guy, but extremely hands off. He’s canceled our last six (at least) one-on-one meetings, telling me to send him an email if I have anything specific to discuss. This probably wouldn’t be a big deal if everyone thought I was an awesome employee, but I’ve had some issues with grandboss and great-grandboss and I feel like the one-on-one meetings are kind of important to show that I’m doing the things I should be doing.

    1. Not really, you need to just ask more questions and go to him more proactively. Also find some other trusted people to help you navigate the company.

    2. First things first get the meetings back on the calendar. You do have things to discuss. Even if he doesn’t, you can tell him that you want to meet to talk about “project XYZ” – and then get into the details during the meeting.

    3. Couple things come to mind. When you set up the 1:1s, include in the invite a list of the things you want to talk about. Hopefully then he’ll understand you’re not just coming in to shoot the sh it, you need input from him.

      He could still cancel the meetings or just not show up. If that happens, I would send weekly emails with:
      – items that need his attention at the top
      – progress updates on items that don’t need his input
      – a “what’s next” list of things on the horizon
      Do bullet points and stay as concise as possible. For whatever reason he’s prioritizing other things, so you’re going to have to steer the boat.

    4. I think you tell him you have something specific to discuss and would like to schedule a quick call. And then you discuss the issues and say you would prefer to touch base on regular one to ones and ask if you can schedule those.

    5. Make a joint agenda for your calls, add things to it throughout the week, and when he suggests cancelling say “I have some things to discuss – please see the agenda here. Can we keep that time or reschedule?”

      1. Yes, this

        Ensure You have a paper trail.

        Ensure you are being direct: literally say “I need to review priorities and challenges with you and get your input on xyz. Specifically, list out”

        This can also be a form of managing up and it is a key part of your job.

    6. It sounds like your boss doesn’t have any concerns with the results you’re getting or your relationship with grand boss/great grand boss. Rather than scheduling one on ones can you just email or call boss as issues arise, with specific questions for him?

    7. I supply my immediate manager with an agenda of items that I want to review during our weekly 1×1’s. I’ve encourage my direct reports to do this, too. Of course, there is one who resists and she is just all over the place, not focused, and forgetful when we meet.

  9. yeah I can’t handle any kind of mock / funnel / turtle neck – my neck just feels itchy & constrained regardless of the material, and I usually don’t have much sensory sensitivity.

    1. I used to love them and now that I could actually use more neck coverage, I can’t stand the feeling of something around my neck. My mom used to say the same thing as she got older – I wonder if it’s heritable.

  10. Quince feedback-I’ve found it to be a great replacement for Gap/Old Navy/J. Crew Factory. My budget isn’t high enough for Clare V., Sezane, etc. and so far have been pleased with the items I purchased (listed below.) What’s your experience been with them? I also like Everlane (especially their cashmere sweaters, wool-blend button-ups and linen jumpsuit.)

    https://www.quince.com/women/women-s-tencel-jersey-ruched-waist-dress?color=dark-olive&gender=women&tracker=collection_page__women%2Fdresses__Midi%20Dresses__28

    https://www.quince.com/women/women-s-woven-leather-camera-crossbody?color=olive&g_acctid=978-058-8398&g_adgroupid=&g_adid=&g_adtype=pla&g_campaign=&g_campaignid=20572575045&g_ifcreative=&g_ifproduct=product&g_keyword=&g_keywordid=&g_merchantid=128669708&g_network=x&g_partition=&g_productchannel=online&g_productid=44322586165418&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAC4ZeNa-P-7Dsqt7cHRLN2jaXa3Fz&gclid=CjwKCAjwt-OwBhBnEiwAgwzrUg3GyAL9HLATuJM0AMtmjFHsnBJb9P8J3XSQ2FIiXcLQCm1yC8vrXBoCk1gQAvD_BwE&utm_campaign=&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_source=google&utm_term=44322586165418

    https://www.quince.com/women/webbing-adjustable-crossbody-strap?color=natural/dark-taupe&g_network=x&g_productchannel=online&g_adid=&g_acctid=978-058-8398&g_keyword=&g_adtype=pla&g_keywordid=&g_ifcreative=&g_adgroupid=&g_productid=45229507117226&g_merchantid=128669708&g_partition=&g_campaignid=20572575045&g_ifproduct=product&g_campaign=&utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=&utm_term=45229507117226&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAC4ZeNa-P-7Dsqt7cHRLN2jaXa3Fz&gclid=CjwKCAjwt-OwBhBnEiwAgwzrUhnrKBL13IF8GoBpV3Sdi-sj45zBWLO68Sw58VbFIu7QzIli4msbHRoC2NoQAvD_BwE

    https://www.quince.com/women/14k-diamond-triangle-sol-stud-ears?color=yellow-gold&g_network=x&g_productchannel=online&g_adid=&g_acctid=978-058-8398&g_keyword=&g_adtype=pla&g_keywordid=&g_ifcreative=&g_adgroupid=&g_productid=43170627256490&g_merchantid=128669708&g_partition=&g_campaignid=20572575045&g_ifproduct=product&g_campaign=&utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=&utm_term=43170627256490&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAC4ZeNa-P-7Dsqt7cHRLN2jaXa3Fz&gclid=CjwKCAjwt-OwBhBnEiwAgwzrUugISHdIW6xHKblkIpvoqMbgitsb49C831uxcrzlybUFQaoh1c5VvRoCH84QAvD_BwE

    https://www.quince.com/women/14k-gold-bold-large-hoop?color=yellow-gold&g_network=x&g_productchannel=online&g_adid=&g_acctid=978-058-8398&g_keyword=&g_adtype=pla&g_keywordid=&g_ifcreative=&g_adgroupid=&g_productid=43555226026154&g_merchantid=128669708&g_partition=&g_campaignid=20572575045&g_ifproduct=product&g_campaign=&utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=&utm_term=43555226026154&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAC4ZeNa-P-7Dsqt7cHRLN2jaXa3Fz&gclid=CjwKCAjwt-OwBhBnEiwAgwzrUhzJodLPjXw_gGew8sxURI7ZZZIEYgzCVmjfrbsbNuvi8neodeEmnRoCWtYQAvD_BwE

    1. I just ordered a pair of their ponte pants. I need a navy pair for summer and ON and JCF have been out of my size for a while.

    2. I don’t think Quince is cheaper than any of those places FYI. There is always a sale at Gap or J crew factory or BRF.

    3. Everlane is fine quality, although certainly not the best, Quince is garbage. Buy fewer pieces of garbage clothes, save up for fewer pieces of quality clothes. We’re all buying way too much clothing anyway.

    4. I haven’t tried a lot of Quince items but have a few and don’t agree that it’s trash quality.

      I just got two of the cotton-cashmere v-neck sweaters and really like them. The fabric is soft with a nice drape and the v-neck is flattering and not too low. They run a bit large; I’m a busty 14 and the XL fits me very loosely, I probably could have gone with an L (although I am always going to err on the side of avoiding tight tops).

      I also got the washable silk skirt and it is cute and more flattering than I would have thought (as I currenlty have a sizeable pooch). I’m planning to wear it to a casual conference that is coming up, with the black v-neck and silver loafers, or maybe with a white tee, sneakers or flats and a jean jacket. Several years ago I got my SO the men’s cashmere half-zip and it has held up nicely and looks great on him.

        1. I ordered a wool-blend sweater from Banana Republic this last season for $200 and it lasted two washes (cold water on delicate cycle in a delicates bag) before looking like a total rag so who knows.

        2. The organic cotton fisherman crew sweater is an exception to this rule. I’ve had multiple Quince sweaters that have not aged well, and I’m not easy on my clothes anyway, but this fisherman sweater still looks fabulous a year later with lots of washing and drying. Plus, it actually comes in a few nice colors instead of the boring options most of their clothes have. Highly recommend. I sized down.

  11. Can I get some help understanding the true costs of private school?

    For context, my spouse and I live in Center city Philadelphia in a good but not great public school catchment. We are late 30s and both practice in moderately paying medical specialties and had 500k of school debt that we are still in the process of paying off and are behind on retirement savings due to years of training.

    We have three kids under 5 in daycare currently and are also saving for their college.

    We like our home and neighborhood and make good money but honestly do not understand how people pay for private school. We are comfortable with our local school for elementary but are already thinking about middle school and high school which is challenging in the Philadelphia public schools.

    The friends schools that seem the most popular are $40-$60k a year for middle and upper grades currently. (We are not Christian and are not interested in sending our kids to Christian/catholic schools.)

    For three kids thats like $120k to $180k a year which is just shocking.

    We make very good money but I cannot fathom paying that much money for non college schooling!!

    Does everyone get scholarships even if their parents are high earners? Or does everyone have secret rich families paying for this??

    Again, we are very privileged but can’t figure out how people make the economics of private school work even for high earners.

    1. A lot of non-Catholics go to Catholic school for this reason exactly. It’s one of the shockingly most religiously diverse places to go to school.

    2. 1. Private schools do have a lot of financial aid available, generally more than college if you exclude the most elite colleges
      2. Lots of people – especially people who have 3 kids – can’t make the economics of private school work and their kids still turn out fine.
      3. Please prioritize your own retirement over your kids’ college and certainly private K-12 school. You kids can go to state schools and graduate with modest loan debt even if they don’t get any financial aid or merit scholarships. There are no scholarships or loans for retirement.

      1. This. Always prioritize retirement over kids school/college fund. They’d rather have student loans and go to a public university than struggle to pay for their parents care IMO.

      1. +1 to family money and/or scholarships.
        Our kids go to private school and we pay out of pocket (big jobs with high paychecks and we bought less house than we could afford to do so). But our school does a TON of ‘grandparent’ activities for this reason. It also helps grandparents gift money in a non-taxable way so it’s popular for that reason too.

      2. Yes, I’ve started to ask around in my social circle and I think this is WAY more common than I realized

        I had no idea that this was so frequent.

      3. Yeah. I’m in Berkeley and one of my hippiest neighbor couples sent their kids to Head Royce. She’s a SAHM and he’s a long time non profit employee. Their parents paid for it all.

    3. I don’t understand it either, but I do think grandparents must be involved sometimes. It feels like it would be cheaper to hire a governess like in the old days? Or to pay a well educated home school parent to fold some kids into their school day and home school group!

      1. This. Grandparental money. If grandparents pay the school directly, they don’t owe gift tax on the $.

        1. Yes, after getting to know them for a while we realized that our best family friends have their lifestyle completely paid for by family money. It’s wild. I expected this type of thing in NYC but did not anticipate it being so widespread in Philly??

          1. As an example, my husband’s parents saved diligently for retirement, as they were told to do.

            Well, they are mid 80s and sitting on more money than they need. They are writing checks left and right. They have decided what they need should they both live to 100 (they won’t) and have a LOT left over.

            So, we now have “family money” that could cover private school if we needed it. DH’s parents were not fancy rich; they were college educated and had manager/ director level jobs at the peak of their careers, but saved diligently.

          2. Yes – mandatory minimum distributions can definitely become a thing for frugal people who maxed out their retirement savings.

    4. Always remember that you don’t really understand someone’s financial situation from the outside.

      Here are a few thoughts:

      People whose kids are in high school and are high earners might be 10+ years older than you are. They went to school when it was cheaper, might have bought houses when it was cheaper, and have had more years to accumulate money.

      Some people have help from family. My step-grandfather paid for all of his bio grandkids to go through $50k a year private high school as well as film freight at the colleges of their choosing. Sure, parent made good money, but wasn’t making good enough money to pay for all that.

      Some people are in debt up to their eyeballs and have no retirement savings.

      1. That’s the whole point of my question. I don’t get how people make it work given what I can guess of their salary, housing costs, and current daycare, etc expenses.

        Seems like the answer is come from a wealthy family.

        1. If people are older than you are, their debt situation looks different: they paid off their smaller student loans, saved earlier, and probably bought their houses more cheaply than you did.

          That’s the answer. People who started working pre-2008 are often just in a wildly different place than those who started after.

        2. Honestly though why do you do this? It seems like such an absolute waste of time to count other people’s money. I wonder if people are counting mine. I tend to be really humble about my husband’s career success but he’s been killing it to the point where we’re spending really big money on non-essential things. We can easily afford it but if you want to pretend it’s family money or we’re in terrible debt I guess you can. Seems like a lot of wasted mental energy.

          1. Not the OP, but to me it’s sometimes a feeling of… what am I doing wrong? How are other people in my community affording some of these things? I think part of the answer is that, with rising inequality, a lot of goods, services, landlords, etc. are jacking up prices to cater to the winners (the so-called greedflation), and people who have always made a very comfortable living before but who aren’t in the group whose wages, real estate, and investments really took off are feeling this lately and in many cases for the first time. I know some private schools are trying to make this work by raising prices and then offering more scholarships (an option that other businesses don’t always have available).

          2. I’m not trying to compare or compete, I’m trying to learn.

            We have a 500k+ HHI, which seems like it should be a lot, but I can’t make the math work. It seems that a lot of my “peers” can make the math work though so I was asking to see what I’m missing.

          3. Yeah so you’re assuming we also make what you make but we make more. The cars are paid off and a bigger house feels like a burden rather than an upgrade so we probably live a similar lifestyle but my math works. It is what it is. It must be a terrible burden to be this successful and this concerned with other peoples money. You’re doing great just enjoy it.

          4. You asked, PSQ, but you don’t like the explanations. They might make more than you think. You continually discount the fact that if your kids are in elementary and theirs are in high school, they got started earlier in life and have had longer to pay down debt, accumulate assets, and grow in their careers.

            Let’s say you’re off by $200k in their salaries, their mortgage is $40k a year less than you think because they bought in 2009, and their student loans are gone (or their parents paid for their grad school); that’s where the money comes from.

    5. I have one child who goes to private school in NYC. My very wealthy parents pay the tuition directly. We could afford it (lawyer and finance jobs), but it makes more sense from an estate planning perspective for my parents to pay, and they are happy to do so / offered. I think it is fairly common for grandparents to pay tuition, but at least in NYC, there are also a lot of people who make a lot of money. I agree that it really adds up when you have more than one kid though…

      1. Often if it’s not grandparents paying it is often grandparents helping out in other areas so that the parents can pay (gifting homes, gifting significant down payments, paying for household help – the grandparents housekeeper also does 1/2 days a week at the kids house, etc.).
        The lives of the true 1% are wild – I’d never heard of anyone being given a house in their 20s/30s or of people buying apartments for their kids in college as a ‘good investment’ in my social circle growing up.

        1. It is not just the 1%. My daughter went to a her dream university – which was way outside my budget – paid for by my grandmother’s estate. Neither she nor my parents ever made anything like 1% money , but she and my grandfather bought in Los Angeles in the 50s. When my grandmother died my father inherited half of her estate and set aside part to pay for my daughter’s education. There is still money to pay for grad school if she decides to go.

          But to OP – I suspect it is a combination of multiple factors: if you did not have $500K in student loans, or had 1-2 children, or had your children further apart, the calculus would be very different, even setting aside family money.

    6. Any chance you can move out to the Philly burbs? Drive out 20 minutes or more and you have many options for great public school districts. Or look into South Jersey school districts – Eastern, Lenape, Moorestown, Cinnaminson, etc are all good options.

      1. Honestly, yes. It would be cheaper to buy a nice house in lower merino than go to private school.

    7. Some people use the money they saved/would otherwise be saved for college for private high school, and it seems they hope the “prestige” will get them scholarship money. It often doesn’t work out that way and then they have a problem.

      Also, real estate. I know a family who rented out their old houses as they bought new ones, and over 20-30 years they gained substantial equity, which they are now cashing in on.

      Lastly, a generation ago schools were not nearly this expensive in general. I think some people grew up used to private as “the thing to do” and now with their own kids they are repeating their own childhood experiences, and kick the can for college and retirement down the road.

      But I’m with you. Never in a million years would I pay that type of money for high school or MIDDLE SCHOOL. And, safety issues aside, there is plenty to learn at public schools regardless of how well ranked (beyond academics), and from life in general as an upper middle class kid with opportunities, that private schools don’t seem necessary or even ideal.

      1. I went to a very expensive private school but most of my classmates (including me) started in seventh or eighth grade, not elementary school, because those years were considered the most important. I agree that the tuition 20 years ago cost way less than it does now.

        1. I’m 10:23 and my husband went to a Catholic prep HS, but it was more money and more rigor than typical Catholic school. Among his siblings it seems like they are planning to send all their kids to prep school, since that’s “what you do”, but we had a very serious talk that although he had a great experience, the price tag is literally double these days (!!!) and we will be using that money for college instead.

      2. +1 to your first paragraph. It can even get worse. Colleges see that the kids went to Choate or whatever, aren’t first-gen (parents are lawyers or some such), and then can’t understand why the kid didn’t apply binding early decision. Not applying ED, when you are capable of it, sends a strong message that it isn’t your first choice school, and reality is, they are often almost full up on rich suburban kids at that point.

        Or, since schools are not truly need blind, even when they are, they want to use their limited aid awards to admit first gen, poor, rural, or inner city kids, not a kid whose lawyer parents sent her to Choate.

    8. You pay for a little extra test prep/tutoring to make sure your kids get into Masterman for middle school…

      1. They changed the formulas on how they admit to privilege under represented zip codes (which I don’t disagree with) so that path is way less assured than it was.

      2. And honestly I’d take my chances with one but not three. They don’t prioritize sibling admits so we’d have to win the lottery x3 which just seems too unpredictable.

    9. Specific to Philly and burbs, there are private schools more affordable than $40k-$60k, more in the $25k-$35k range, but they are mostly religious of some sort (so many Catholic schools! But also less “popular” Jewish ones.) I respect that you don’t want that for your kids but that’s where the “affordability” is.
      We are not Catholic but are comfortable sending our kids to Catholic school so that’s how we’ve made it work. For high school and middle school at a lot of these places, there are actually many merit scholarships available for bright kids who test well on the entrance exams, and the scholarships cover between 20-50% of tuition which obviously helps. For the really expensive schools, I have also heard that the threshold for qualifying for financial aid is much higher than you might otherwise assume—comfortable middle class families can still qualify for financial aid at these places.

      1. Not Catholic and also went to Catholic school. I won the religion award! This was back when we had nuns for teachers and those ladies didn’t mess around with the academics. These we women who IMO likely would be doctors, lawyers, accountants, or school superintendents / professors now. Not sure they are the same now with lay teachers, but it was the private school of choice for the middle class in my NJ town.

        1. No wonder Catholic schools were cheaper — it’s hard to be expensive when your workforce has undertaken a vow of poverty.

          1. They are also usually subsidized by the parish/diocese (more common for parish grade schools; less common for high schools run by religious orders like the Jesuits). Kind of another form of grandparent money, just not from your specific grandparents

          2. Our parish definitely gets hit up for donations to the school. Silent auction items, galas, fundraisers – the parish pays for a decent chunk.

            It’s also an unspoken assumption that if you can more than afford tuition, you will donate substantial money. Rather than make tuition expensive and then discount for most families, it’s simply discounted and they expect wealthy families to donate $$$.

          3. Also parochial schools (Catholic and Protestant alike) are often “parish” schools in the early grades, which means that the school isn’t renting a physical plant. My Episcopal church toyed with the idea of opening a parish school but it just didn’t work out in a financial sense.

        2. A lot of catholic grandparents are willing to pay for a catholic education for their grandchildren. My sister plucked those strings with our mother, who could ill afford it (I did her bookkeeping) but she insisted that her kids needed a “private” school education because her local schools were not good enough for her children. When our mom died, sister’s kids were still in school. Sister (and all of us) got a small inheritance that was from selling mom’s house, which would have paid for a couple more years of catholic school for her kids, but no, suddenly public schools were fine for her kids. Can you tell this still chaps my ass?

    10. My kids attended private school, and I someone in administration told me that half the kids had grandparents who were paying. Alas, my kids were in the other 50%. I know that a substantial portion of the kids without grandparent support received some financial aid, but the percentage of aid varied.

      Another thing that needs to be factored in is tuition and fee increases. By the time my kids finished, the annual cost was about 250% of what it was when they started.

    11. The neighouring big city has 25% of secondary students privately educated and I’m so confused by it. Our income is in the 90th percentile UK-wise, and there’s no way we could stretch to private school for our single kid and still pay our mortgage? Our local secondary school rankings just came out and they were grim, only 40% graduate with the required exams to make them eligible for university admission. My husband was panic googling private school scholarships, but I can’t imagine it would be possible financially. I have to assume that its grandparents paying the tuition in most cases.

      1. No idea about the UK but if I heard 25% “privately educated” for a US city, I’d guess the bulk are 1) homeschooling (5-10% in the US); and religious schools (in between are accredited private online schools – many but not all religious). I know lots of folks who didn’t go to public school; I don’t know anyone who went to one of the fancy $50k private schools folks here are talking about!

        1. Yeah the kind of $50k a year private schools people are talking about here represent a very very small minority of people. My decent sized city doesn’t even have secular private schools! Just Catholic, evangelical Christian (anti-science) and public. Zero question we would use public.

    12. If you have more than one child you likely will get some FA, even if you are a high earner. Won’t be huge but maybe 10% off, depending on the whole picture.

      In my circle, it’s either family money or very lucrative careers where part of the annual bonus funds the tuition.

    13. I went to a similar school in DC K-8 and about 50% of my cost of attendance was covered by a scholarship with a HHI of around $100k. My parents paid the other half, but the tradeoff was that I didn’t have any college savings whatsoever. Luckily, there were merit scholarships available for undergrad and I did fine.

    14. I went to a private girls school like this. The answer is that everyone was rich, and I believe there was a slight discount for siblings. Some girls did have scholarships, but it was treated in this very shameful hush-hush way (which was stupid) so I don’t know how much the scholarships covered. Beyond tuition there were a lot of other fees.

    15. We have 4 kids, all in private schools. Or older two are at a school where tuition is $40,000 each for middle school; the younger two are at a feeder preschool that’s about $25,000 each per year. There are no sibling discounts.

      We are wealthy (mid-seven figure income) so we’re paying out of pocket. Many of our kids’ friends’ tuition is paid by grandparents, in whole or in part. Our older kids’ school has an extremely generous financial aid program and nearly half of the students get some degree of FA. It’s not secret or shameful, probably because it’s so common – our kids even participate in FA fundraising and seem to view it as this sort of…team effort to help their friends go to school there?

      Our younger kids’ school has limited FA because it is part of a larger program that also serves special needs kids and tuition at the preschool subsidizes the special needs programs so that those can offer FA.

    16. I grew up going to an InterAc school in the burbs. I LOVED it and have only great things to say about my experience. Some InterAc schools are religious (one Quaker, two Catholic, one Episcopalian) and the rest are secular. Coming from Center City, Penn Charter (which is private and not charter, it is Quaker) is the most convenient InterAc school, and then there are several other Friends schools that are in the Friends League (Friends Central, Friends Select, Germantown Friends). I can’t speak to the Friends league schools, but my entire extended family went to InterAc schools so I know that league well. There are also several teachers in my family, so I’m strangely knowledgeable about Philly area private schools.

      In lower grades, there are still plenty of kids getting scholarships or financial aid, but it’s mostly people paying full freight. The older you get, the more financial aid / scholarship kids you get. For example, my cousin went to Catholic school for K-8 and then went to an InterAc school and my aunt and uncle paid the same tuition at the private school as they did at the Catholic school (so like 10k a year), even though the private school tuition was like 6x what the Catholic school tuition was.

      I had a few friends who went to state schools for college and their tuition was less in college than it was in high school. It is crazy, I admit. But, the experience, education, and community you get from the schools is very much worth it.

      If you have any questions, feel free to reply and I’ll be back on later today and can try to answer them.

    17. Seems like the answer to how people are paying for this is mostly secret family money with some families choosing to prioritize paying for k-12 education over college savings/retirment.

      Here I was naively hoping that there was actually really generous financial aid!

      Thanks all for your responses. Going to start scoping out suburban neighborhoods now ;)

      1. Come to Moorestown! We love it here. Moved from Philly two years ago. The schools are excellent, the town services are great, and it’s a 20-25 min drive to Center City.

      2. Also maybe look into charter schools. You don’t pay but the quality is often great.

    18. Well they don’t have three kids, they either don’t have kids back to back or they wait until later in life to start, don’t have $500k debt, live in the burbs rather than center city, and their parents help them.

      I don’t have family money and I graduated with $200k debt. DH didn’t go to college. We’re 40 and getting ready to have our first and only. Most of my friends are in the same boat. The ones with family money can afford to have 2 kids. None of my friends have 3 kids. I have some coworkers who do. They fall into one of two camps: grandparents pay for everything, or they live in a tiny house and the kids go to public school.

      1. I’m the commenter above with four kids in private, and starting late was definitely part of the story for us. My husband (who is 10 years older than me) was already an equity partner in big law making over a million before we started paying private school tuition, and I’d moved to a very senior in-house position managing mid-six figures. So our student debt was already paid off and we were at a high salary point.

    19. My husband went to a private school that costs $45k/year today. His parents bankrolled it. They were two white collar mid-management professionals. I would imagine they had an HHI equivalent to ~$250k today. They also paid full freight for private college which (I just looked) costs $65k/year now.

      We have 3 kids and chose to live in an expensive suburb with strong public schools to avoid private school. There are trade-offs to this approach.

      FWIW we went our kids to daycare which cost $27k/year so private school would have been doable, though not fun, for our bank account. HHI is about $350.

      1. I know higher education costs have risen WAY faster than inflation, I wonder if that’s the same for private secondary education?

        1. A college friend of mine went to an LA prep school famous for having lots of very very famous parents and more than a few child stars. The annual tuition in the 1990s was about $9,000 (she got a merit scholarship for about 80% of that cost). The tuition now is about $50,000. If tuition had gone up in keeping with inflation, it would be about $20,000.

    20. I think it’s a combination of:
      – some people make more money than you think (I’m a lawyer and many of my non-lawyer friends have thrown out their concept of what I make, and I was making double or one time triple what they thought. I’ve also had this experience with friends in engineering where they made significantly more than I personally expected).
      – some people deprioritize retirement savings
      – some grandparents contribute
      – some private schools cost less than you think, particularly when you aren’t in an expensive coastal area – my cousin went to a very good, well regarded private high school in Ohio for $12K a year
      – the Christian/catholic schools tend to be less expensive

    21. I honestly don’t know Philly, but there still are some scholarship schools left in the world (some have qualifying exams, but they’re free to attend for all students who are admitted).

    22. I have no idea how financial aid works at those schools. But the school my kids go to has an endowment and very good financial aid. Sticker price is $26k. We have HHI $200k and two kids. We pay $11-12k per kid even with what is for this area a pretty high income. We afford it through trade offs- we don’t eat out very much, our house is less $/smaller than we could otherwise afford, we don’t take fancy vacations (still more than I grew up with – generally a few driving distance Airbnb stays in a year plus a trip to visit grandparents across the country- but we are not staying in $ hotels, going to resorts etc). We are prioritizing this over saving enough for fancy colleges based on our experience at fancy colleges.

    23. I’d like to consider private school, but with our HHI being about $250k (in the Bay Area), I don’t see it being affordable or us qualifying for financial aid. We don’t own a home and have family obligations as well. If we really want to go private we may have to move to another state.

      1. Check out financial aid websites at the well-endowed schools like Castilleja. The HHI and asset levels that still get significant financial aid are quite high to me.

    24. Honestly? Most people who earn $500k don’t have three kids. Income is roughly inversely correlated with family size. Big families tend to be lower income. My aunt and uncle just finished paying full freight for Friends Select on about half your income. No family help. But they have one kid.

      1. +1
        The only people I know with 3 kids are either really poor with a stay at home mom or super rich with a stay at home mom.
        Family sizes are so small in my circle that 3 kids by late 30s gives me teen mom/Duggar vibes lol.

        1. Ha. I’m in Ohio. All my friends had 3 kids by mid-30s. I’m the outlier with only 2 (both before I was 30). We’re not really poor or super rich. I would say we all earn between $400K and $1 million. I guess technically we’re all in the 1% for Ohio but it doesn’t feel super rich. Houses in my neighborhood are selling for about a million. Private high schools are $40K. Our kids are in public school. Many of my friends work part-time though as the kids enter elementary school and need more attention.

          1. Ha I’m putting you in the rich category!! I also have 3 kids and am expecting my fourth. We have a HHI of about $180K a year, I am a SAHM, we live outside NYC so don’t have a lot of wiggle room for any extras right now, but I acknowledge that I’m upper middle class compared to most of the country. Probably for my area I’m solidly middle class, which feels insane because $180K sounds like a lot of money

          2. I don’t understand how you don’t feel super rich in Ohio on $400k let alone $1M! I’m in one of the largest Ohio cities and we earn less than $200k and feel rich.

          3. Ha, same! Our hhi is around $450 in Ohio but I live in a street with people probably making a lot more – lots of pools, pictures of private jets to see the Browns, vacation pictures, etc. I thought we’d feel rich when we moved here (and we are) but the desire to keep up with the Joneses is real. (We’re still just saving everything but every summer I seriously consider putting in a pool.)

    25. Secret rich families in all but one of the families I know. The grandparents are paying.
      The one I can’t figure out as the parents are public sector (like me).

      1. You can have a lot saved if you’re old and frugal. My parents worked for the government and never made large incomes but they’re in a position now to pay for private school + college + grad school for all four grandkids. They live a really modest lifestyle (small home, old cars, etc) so no one would ever guess how much they have in the bank.

    26. Most are just rich, either family money or high earners. There are also a lot of kids of parents who work at the school, but I don’t know if they get an employer discount.

    27. In my city, it’s often grandparents footing the bill. I’d love it if my parents offered, but to be frank, we don’t have the kind of relationship where I think it would be healthy. (My mom would complain about any humanities class or art class and why are they doing a camping retreat instead of the SATs?) Also there are plenty of people who live in their parents or grandparents’ old house, so their housing costs are basically zero (or very minimal) thanks to Prop 13. Some just spend way more on private school education than is prudent. Others have the expectation that their children will support them completely at retirement.

      I go to a church which is mostly well-off, older liberals. About half the kids attend private school and half public (mine included). To be perfectly frank, I taught Sunday School for years and years and the ones who were at private school seemed…fine? Not noticeably brighter or more articulate or more thoughtful than the ones at public school. No noticeable differences.

    28. I’m super, super late to this thread but maybe OP is still reading. I work in private school admissions and here’s how it works:

      – People with high paying jobs
      – Grandparent money or generational wealth — your debt load makes a big difference, and some folks might not have grandparents paying the bill but maybe the bill for their own education was paid in full, so they’re not worried about loans
      – Generous financial aid. For example, given how you described your family you might not qualify for one kid but for three, that puts you in a different ballpark
      – Sacrifice. It is moving to me what some people do in order to make private school work for their kids.

  12. Has anyone solved the mystery of the tiny holes that appear at the bottom center of t-shirts? Some people think it’s from rubbing against the fastener of jeans, but I almost never wear jeans, so that’s not it for me. I’ve read that it could be from repeated ontact with your kitchen counter while doing dishes, cooking, etc., but that doesn’t seem to explain it. Any theories?
    Do pricier t-shirts have this problem?

    1. Oh, and I machine wash/air dry most of my clothes, so it’s not a dryer issue.

    2. I put thinner T shirts in laundry/delicates bags when I wash them and hang dry. If you’re washing them with heavier items like jeans that could be the cause.

    3. I have the same issue. I have pricier t-shirts (e.g., from amour vert) and they generally do have this problem unless they’re thick, like the Leslie shirt from mm lafleur does not have this issue for me. No idea what causes it, altough I do wear jeans.

    4. Seatbelt friction someone guessed, or could be tension from pulling the tee down with your hands during the day and that’s a weaker part of the fabric maybe?

      1. I do not get holes like these. I live in a city with excellent public transport and almost never spend time in cars, so one more vote for seat belts as a possible culprit.

        1. Me either! Although admittedly I don’t wear tees very much at all, but I don’t drive by choice and am just putting it together that I don’t have these little holes!

    5. I think the cause of the holes is the center part of the jeans waistband and the button/snap rubbing against very thin knit fabric.

      1. That’s my theory. You know how there’s like a corner on the part of your jeans where the buttonhole is? My theory is that’s what makes the holes. I have even gone so far as to try to soften it with an emery board. Generally I just try to French tuck my tees so they don’t come in contact with it (or any of the other suspects like seatbelts or kitchen counters).

    6. I think it is the corners of the pants waistband at the center. I have not had the issue since I started front-tucking my t-shirts.

    7. Do you wear an ID badge at work that sits on that area? That has definitely caused pilling on my clothing and could conceivably lead to holes if it got bad enough. Otherwise, I would say seatbelt friction, or friction from things you might be carrying (laundry baskets, etc.) against your stomach.

      1. Yeah, I use a badge reel and it catches on the edge of shirts unless I tuck them in.

    8. It’s your pants where the waistband overlaps. The end that sticks out a little rubs on the shirt, especially when you lean against something like a counter.

      1. Or you could go full Winnie the Pooh and only wear the crop top. Bet he doesn’t get holes in his shirts.

  13. I forgot to come back and respond yesterday, but thank you to the person who recommended the greenlight card for a relative with dementia. On first glance, it looks promising, although I need to double check how you can add approved stores or things like doctor co-pays that won’t always have the same name. We definitely need a way forward though so I appreciate the lead!

    1. I’m glad it may be helpful! I just pulled up the app to take a look in case I could share anything helpful. For each card on your account, there are different buckets where money can be loaded – Spending, Saving, Investing, Giving. There is also an allowance feature that will deposit a specified amount on a chosen schedule. We don’t use much other than Spending for my mom, but the other categories and allowance work really well for kids! Within Spending, the default is Spend Anywhere but there are subcategories where you can load money – any ATM, any Gas Station, any Grocery Store, any Restaurant, any Online Gaming. We haven’t used them, but I guess you can limit how much is spend in those categories by limiting how much goes in each one. You can also add specific stores and then load money to those as well. For my mom, so far we’ve controlled it by just keeping a relatively small amount in Spend Anywhere and then loading more when she lets me know she needs it for something like a doctor’s visit. My mom is in assisted living and doesn’t drive, though, so her spending is already pretty limited and we haven’t had to come up with a more robust approach. If you know when she’ll be going to a doctor, etc. you could put the money in Spend Anywhere for that expense and then move any excess back out after.

  14. I have an employee who is about to be put on a PIP for essentially soft skills. Her work (when she does it) is good but sends rude messages to other employees, difficult to get in contact with (WFH), makes faces when given any work that isn’t exactly what she likes to do and sometimes refuses to do it, etc etc. I’ve run it by HR and they’re the ones who recommended the PIP. I’m going to do a “warning” first, but I’m struggling with how to convince her that soft skills matter too, basically. I’ve given her many concrete examples, she knows for example that she hasn’t gotten promoted in the past because of it. It was a big part of her last review. But it feels more difficult than if it was lack of technical skills.

    1. I feel that being difficult to get in contact with is more than a soft skills issue.

      I think it helps that some of the soft skills issues you’re describing don’t sound like deficits, but sound like active things she is doing that she may be able to avoid even without otherwise becoming more socially adept?

    2. I’ve never had to coach anyone on this but would it help to ask her how she’d feel if people responded to her the way she’s responding to other people?

      Also maybe remind her that it’s difficult to read intentions in emails, so she needs to be careful how she comes across?

    3. Make a list of the soft skills that need work. For each one, identify what, how, and who it is impacting, as specifically as possible. Ideally, give past examples where the soft skill was lacking, and a specific example of what you want to see in that situation from now on. Do not soft pedal or gloss over that fixing each and every one is a non-negotiable requirement for future employment. I would use hard, unequivocal words in a pleasant tone of voice.

    4. Her being difficult to get in contact with and apparently refusing to do assigned work stood out to me. These are not soft skills – these are basic job functions and will be easily measured in a PIP.

    5. I’d leave the “makes faces” out of it–that to me feels pretty minor overall especially compared to refusing work and not being reachable. Rude emails I also feel is subjective, but that’s easier to fix–explain they need a heading and greeting, and to phrase things in a request not command might help.
      If possible, I’d avoid using general vague terms like “be careful” or “be mindful”. I’m autistic and I’ve been getting “helpful” feedback about this my entire career which feels demoralizing and confusing, even though I have gotten multiple performance bonuses, awards, raises, excellent reviews, etc. I once deliberately tried to make a “concerned” face in a meeting when someone mentioned expanding rapidly to a new location–sincerely and honestly in an attempt to fit in because I was getting feedback about not being engaged enough (sigh) and my boss danced around some weird “perception is reality” nonsense before finally saying that he felt that making that face was not “positive” enough. Bleh. Some people are weird and abrasive and just don’t fit in. Unless those faces are demonstratively affecting the work or those around her, I’d leave it off.
      IMHO unless someone is pulling really over the top crappy faces, let their face react for 1-2 seconds and focus on deliverables, performance, and outcomes that are measurable.

      1. I didn’t expect this place to be like the AAM comment section. You can’t make faces at work when something happens that you don’t like. It’s not kindergarten. Whether you like to or not, it’s unprofessional and it will hold you back, like it obviously is for this person. If that’s your only flaw, yeah, it can be overlooked. It is obviously not this person’s only flaw and she should get feedback on it.

        1. I think the problem is that “making faces” is kind of subjective and she’ll just say she wasn’t making any faces. Better to point to objective facts like “people contacted you at 10 am and you didn’t respond until 3 pm” or whatever.

        2. You also can’t easily prove someone is “making faces.” I’ve seen this be wildly misperceived before. If there’s a general attitude problem here, maybe it’s not being misperceived, but it’s wiser to stick with the demonstrable issues (like refusing to do work).

      2. Weird or different is fine, but you still have to be polite and professional. The making faces itself is weird but alright, but the weird face comes with a negative attitude about the task.

    6. Do not put her on a PIP for her facial expressions. Put her on a PIP for something measurable, like availability or completing work. Better yet, don’t put her on a PIP at all unless you are trying to get her to quit before you fire her. Just coach her if you actually want her to improve. And don’t say “but in our organization a PIP is really about improvement.” It is a clear signal that you want her to leave and if she has any sense she will.

      1. No, you can put somebody on a PIP because for this. It’s not an acceptable way to behave at work.

        1. Then it’s time to recognize that you are not going to change her personality and behavior. Your choices are to put up with it or get rid of her. A PIP is not going to be some kind of wake-up call that makes her see the light and change her entire personality. That is why it needs to be about objective metrics that you know she won’t achieve so you can fire her easily if she doesn’t take the hint and leave on her own.

          I have witnessed PIPs used for punitive reasons, as a means of exerting power and control over others, and to try and change personalities and not once did it produce the desired effect of beating the employee into submission. They all quit as soon as they found another position. In at least half of the cases the problem was more with the manager than with the employee. Poor performance is almost always the result of bad hiring decisions and/or poor management.

    7. As an HR person, if you have already talked with her about it, provided examples, etc then it is PIP time not warning of PIP time. Especially if you have helped with tools for learning better communication etc (I have a direct report now who is taking a communications class for example).

    8. Why do you have to “convince her that soft skills matter” at all?
      If she doesn’t want to learn what most people know and isn’t open to learning from you, the PIP will teach her real quick.

      Somewhere in the past few years we’ve come to pretend that managers are also supposed to be therapists and life coaches. We are not. That’s okay.

    9. You don’t have to “convince” her. You have to be straightforward and clear: “There are several issues that are getting in the way of your success here — it can be hard to get in touch with you and you sometimes refuse work. Those are problems, and this is a warning that they can’t continue.”

      Then follow through. I’d leave off the “making faces” part, and unless you have concrete examples of how email tone is getting in the way of work, then I’d leave that off, too. But! I’d document those things, just to have a clear list of times and dates of problematic behavior.

    10. I would couch it as, it doesn’t matter if you do good technical work if no one wants to work with you.

    11. Ha! This could have totally described me at the beginning of my career. My lack of engagement was driven by sort of an academic mentality: if it’s interesting, I’ll do it now; if not, I’ll either do it later or not at all and make up for it with extra credit. I think you have to figure out if you want this person working for you, and if yes, ask her if she wants to receive coaching to be successful in working for you. If yes on both sides, I would set really clear expectations (respond to my requests within 1 hr between 8 and 5, respond to every email even with “got it”, make your to-do list public to me and report on project progress on Wed and Fri. You have to make due dates of deliverables extremely clear to her.) My first boss was kind enough to do this for me and after easily meeting these expectatations I was given more higher level, much more interesting work which I excelled at. I quickly figured out that if I wanted to do fewer uninteresting assignments I needed to be more, not less engaged. I am also autistic and still occasionally put my foot in my mouth with factual but apparently unfriendly responses to people. At one point I had coaching from an amazing coworker on this front and try to emulate her in my delivery but it never comes naturally, it’s an effort to rewrite every email after my first “rude” draft. Lately, ChatGPT has become a crutch to run nearly any email longer than a sentence through to get better tone. If the answer to the first question above is no, you don’t want to work together, then PIP is the way to go.

    12. Change your frame – you don’t have to convince her. You’re informing her what the expectation is and what the consequence is. She makes the choice.

  15. Time Magazine reports that dozens of legal and advocacy groups are rallying around the student who staged the protest at Chemerinsky’s house in Berkeley. All of this even though he could only have been targeted because he was Jewish as he has never made a statement in support of the war or Netanyahu. I deeply hate the antisemitic left of today and want Jewish readers here to know they don’t speak for me or many other progressives.

    1. Chemerinsky has been really supportive of anti-Israel groups’ rights to free speech in the past. It’s insane how it’s being turned against him.

      Also, I loved his con law outline book when I took con law 15 years ago!

      1. I was lucky enough to actually be in his con law class close to 40 years ago and he was great even then! This incident makes me sick.

        1. Senior Attorney, based on this and many other comments, I suspect we run in the same circles. I don’t know whether you are open to IRL contact, but if you are, please let me know. Thanks.

        2. He was on leave for most of the time I was in law school, but a law school friend happened to introduce me to him at a law school event and he was just the nicest man. Thoughtful, kind, so genuinely pleased to meet me, like 180* from most of the law professors I’d met. This whole event just makes me sick.

          And to be honest, I don’t think I would have passed Con Law without his outline book.

      1. It cites 5 plus viral clips (10M views) with titles like “on the last day of Ramadan, Berkeley professor assaults a hijabi.” I should have been more clear but I was just trying to make the point that a massive amount of eyes on this incident are somehow blaming the victim.

        1. Not everyone who views that video automatically agrees with it. Those videos are often linked from news websites and people of all perspectives will view them.

        2. It cites 5 groups in support of the student only if you count the student group that the student herself is leader of. There is an equal number of voices taking the side of the professor, not counting his own statement (the university chancellor, the AJC, FIRE, the law professors from UCLA and Columbia).
          The text of the tweet is completely misleading, but it has a disclaimer with additional context.
          I think the student was wrong to do this, but you are mischaracterizing this article as if it’s one-sided.

          1. Fine me one person from any of her groups who has condemned her acts or this approach. I’ll wait . . .

          2. No, I’m not saying the article is misleading – I don’t really care about the slant of Time. I’m simply shocked and horrified that there isn’t universal condemnation of blatant antisemitism. Those five groups should have responded with “whoa WTF, these actions do not represent us or our goals.”

            Of course, the problem is that they do. That’s what I’m mad about. People are deliberately, willfully, and deeply antisemitic. It’s not about what one article says or doesn’t say. It’s about the people featured and how they are in positions of prestige and influence.

    2. I really hate this incident, too, and it does feel like it was misdirected based on the dean’s religion/ethnicity. I have strong objections to the manner in which Israel has conducted this military campaign and its related propaganda campaign, but this demonstration was wrong.

      1. I think there isn’t any other explanation. Some of the students screamed at him to divest – because Jews control all the money? He has no control over the university’s investments and I can’t believe more people aren’t talking about how offensive that assumption is. Even if I give the most generous possible interpretation, which is that students might want any deans in positions of influence to speak out, they have no right to compel his speech and it still wouldn’t excuse staging this infantile protest at a private home.

        1. I mean maybe it’s because he’s the dean? Deans don’t normally have that level of decision making ability but I can see students thinking they do. It was dumb and rude but I’m not convinced it was antisemitic.
          I’m Jewish fwiw.

      2. Many of the comments here miss the point.

        Palestinian supporters (here, at Berkley, elsewhere) don’t have good faith objections to Israel’s “military campaign” or “right wing government” (which is actually a unity government). THEY HATE JEWS. They’re modern day Nazis. They quite literally watched Hamas slaughter and torture innocent men, women, children, babies, and elderly in some of the most gruesome ways imaginable, and then gloat about the carnage, all while acting from and intentionally imbedded among Gaza’s civilian population. Not to mention they kidnapped hundreds of hostages who were raped, tortured, and in many cases killed, and many of whom are still being held hostage.

        Sure there’s the occasional (and disingenuous) vague acknowledgment that Hamas is bad. But these antisemites would criticize Israel’s response no matter what form it took.

        1. This is just not true. You can acknowledge Hamas is terrible and they have committed atrocities while also acknowledging that killing and trapping civilians to this extent is also terrible and wrong.

          The specific student might be antisemitic (I have NO idea if she is), and I don’t at all agree with what the students did in this case. But your blanket statement is just not true.

          1. Yes, she is. If you target a Jew at his home, one who has never made statements supporting the war or had any involvement in the university’s investments, you are antisemitic. Why is it so hard for so many to name that?

          2. Right— that’s why I said the specific student might be. She probably is; you raise a good point.

            My post was saying that it’s possible to want a cease fire in the abstract without being a literal Nazi which is what the person I’m responding to posted.

        2. This isn’t true, and reasonable people see straight through this. Israel is committing genocide. Israel is a recognized country, with all of the privileges, rights, and US aid that come along with that status. Hamas is a terrorist group. Israel is rightly held to a higher standard. . For years, we have watched the Israeli government abuse Palestinians. THAT is what is objectionable. It has nothing to do with hating Jews.

          1. Yeah. I distinguish between the Israeli government and IDF and individual Israeli soldiers, Israeli civilians, and diaspora Jews. I also distinguish between acts of Israel and Israel’s right to exist/nationhood. I am confused (and frustrated) when diaspora Jews do not and suggest that taking issue with one is taking issue with all in order to shut down any criticism. It is also frustrating when someone volleys back and forth between conflation of all of them and warning others against that same conflation in an intellectually dishonest way.

          2. So Hamas gets to commit gnocide because they’re not a real government? Okay, cool, got it.

          3. “Israel is committing genocide.” THAT is an antisemitic blood libel and proves my point above (anon 11:03). You are a modern-day Nazi. You don’t wear a brown shirt, but your disgusting statements abet Hamas’ goal of exterminating Jews.

            Israel has 100% air superiority in Gaza. If it were “committing genocide”, Israel could easily annihilate the entire population in a matter of days. Secretary Austin literally testified to Congress under oath days ago that there’s “no evidence” that Israel is committing genocide. Instead of recognizing this indisputable fact, you’re inciting Jew hatred based on a lie about Israel.

            Israel, to the extent possible in an active warzone (which was created by Hamas’ actions), is protecting and providing food, water, and medicine to Palestinian civilians (many of whom are Gaza sympathizers or outright supporters). And it’s doing so literally at the cost of life to Israeli soldiers. It’s also going far beyond what any nation in world history has done for another population in the middle of armed hostilities.

            How dare you call that “committing genocide”?

          4. Stop it. No one gets to commit genocide. The end.

            That is actually what “an eye for an eye” means in that book supposedly at the center of all this.

          5. Anon@ 1:12 – I referred to them as a terrorist group. Nobody is giving them a pass. But if Israel wants the support of the world, and our tax dollars, they shouldn’t commit war crimes. Ok, cool, got it?!

        3. Oh come on. I disagree with a lot of Israeli governmental and military policies and you just called me a Nazi. I am appalled at what happened to the Berkeley dean. I can also disagree with right wing politics everywhere.

          1. I don’t think disagreeing with the government makes one a Nazi either (I’m OP), but picking a random Jew to vent your spleen on is antisemitism. Chemerinsky is not an Israeli official.

        4. Yikes – you realize painting all Palestinian supports as Nazis makes you sound exactly as hateful as you’re accusing them of being, right?

    3. That student was unhinged. I’m sorry, but come on. From what I’ve read about this couple, they are advocates of free speech, even when it’s ugly. But to stage a protest at someone’s private home is beyond the pale.

      1. The student seems quite unhinged. She’s claiming Fisk felt threatened by her hijab and was trying to fondle her to make her uncomfortable (according to one article, anyway).

        1. I never wanted to be the person complaining about generations younger than me m, but people like that are making it really hard . . .

          1. If it makes you feel any better, I have two Gen Z lefty liberal “pro Palestinian” college students in my household who think that protest was appalling and that the main character is an attention wh0re and “so embarrassing.” Sample of two. Also, we live in Berkeley.

          2. I’m embarrassed for her too. Come on lady, you instigated this and now you’re trying to claim assault and Islamophobia and possibly sexual harassment? Do you not realize it’s on video or something?

          3. Can we not use the slur attention wh0re? I agree with you, but is it necessary to s3xualize women as an insult?

        2. That claim is just so brazen. You stand in someone’s home and verbally abuse them, and when they try to remove you because of your behavior, you accuse them of attacking your identity? Who is going to believe that? This is a law student?

          1. We used to worry about the character and fitness part of the bar application. Is that not a thing now?

      2. That’s the new norm in our culture, though. Don’t bother to think or formulate a coherent argument or engage in a productive debate, just attack people in the most disruptive and antagonistic way possible whether or not you have cause. It’s all about the soundbites and clicks.

    4. Yeah, that story is appalling and that student was unhinged. I strongly disagree with a lot of actions from the Israeli government, but this protest was extremely misguided and inappropriate, not to mention antisemitic.

    5. Thank you. This incident has rattled me in a way others have not. Maybe because of the target, maybe because it was in his home, maybe because the “anti-Israel, but not antisemitic” left do not fully articulate what to do with that tiny problem of fully one half of world Jewry living in Israel. Deport them to…. where? Iran? Iraq? Morocco? Tunisia where my inlaws fled to Israel from? It’s all very head spinning and overwhelming.

      1. I want someone to answer this too. Unfortunately we do have an answer in the Hamas charter.

        1. Yeah what? You’re never going to win when both sides think their god gave them, and only them, the same land. It’s an impossible situation.

          1. I think a 3 state solution. Whatever the WB’s problems are, it didn’t start Gaza’s mess and should not get caught up in it. The WB and Gaza should be separate from each other. Hamas and the leaders in the WB are not sympatico with each other.

          2. No serious person is suggesting a unified Palestinian state under Hamas rule. And BTW – the lack of unity is by design – Israel/Netanyahu’s design.

    6. It’s infuriating to me how many of my progressive friends have gone full on antisemitic and get so defensive at even the slightest suggestion that they’re maybe wrong. I don’t understand how they can be so blind to this.

      1. People need to stop equating criticism of Israel as antisemitism. It doesn’t help your cause at all.

        1. With the self-identified progressive young people I know, that is not what is happening. They’re bringing up almost every antisemitic trope I’ve heard of. It’s a very stark contrast to the older people I know who have always supported Palestine.

          1. I agree. When random Jews are getting attacked in the streets and shouted down in classrooms, it’s not about criticism of the Israeli government anymore. Pretending it is is antisemitism.

  16. I’m a mid-level manager for a global company that has a business casual style environment and I need to update my wardrobe. I am 44, lives in central Montréal, 2 kids in elementary school and I am somewhat active. I’m 1.68m and with peri-menopause weight gains I am now a size 6-8. I exercise daily but I love bread & cheese.
    I have not shopped for work clothes since 2019 (except online shopping for pants at BR or some tops at Club Monaco). The style I like could be described as preppy with an edge. Pre-kids I used to love shopping and I spent time on my style. However, I no longer have the time plus I don’t really know how to dress for work anymore or what goes well on my body. I have been reading this site for years but I need more. Budget is flexible.
    Any suggestions for blog/people on Insta? Or if any Mtl corp*rette have a rec for a stylist, that would be great.

    1. I’m your twin. “Midsize” on insta will get you a lot of accounts to follow. Some may suit you better than others.

      I find that BR, BRF, and JCF bottoms work for me (size 8 pear, sometimes 10). Jackets I’ve gotten spendier — Boden, Frances Valentine. But it’s been a lot of order and return. And a lot of what is in the closet I’d replace if I could find something better. I did get a funeral suit (BR). I want a non-funeral suit, but it’s not a high priority at the moment.

      I had a lovely BEFORE dress from J Crew in a 6P that I found on eBay in a 10 non-petite and considered it to be a total win.

      1. I’m sorry, size 6-8 is not “midsize” when the average American woman is a 5’4” size 14-16.

        Midsize is going to get you women more around that average.

        1. Midsize is going to get you the IG content that is realistic-sized adult women in their 30s-50s. I’m not saying it’s the midpoint, but it’s you need to use.

    2. I feel you on “preppy with an edge”! I think some Rag & Bone pieces worked into your wardrobe could be great, especially if you could use some jackets/blazers. Due to fit issues I mainly buy shoes and bags from them, but have ordered clothing to try. The quality of all is very good, except the tees are thin material. Solid white R&B tees are a “no” from me, but other colors or patterns work. For less of an edge, look at Halsbrook. I like that there is a view of the piece of clothing but also an outfit view of it too.

      1. Thank you, I will go look at R&B : I have some booties and skinny jeans from them that I love.

  17. I’m fairly sure I’ve researched right & run past a CPA family member, but would love if a knowledgeable Rette could back of napkin check my math:

    MFJ live in MA, both work in MA.
    Spouse job requires a NY move, but we don’t . keep MA as domicile.
    his W2 is NY Sept 1st onward. I am full year MA.

    I will: federally MFJ, MA state MFJ, and NY state (for spouse) file MFS for his partial year residency.
    file on a hope and a prayer and wait for an IRS kick in the teeth later.

    1. One year in school I was domiciled in State A, lived in State B for > 183 days, and made most of my $ in the summer in State C. So I filed 3 state returns and 1 federal and no one batted an eye.

      Have you looked at the domicile rules for him for if he is still in-state for MA for tax? NY still takes the first bite on his NY income, but he can be in-state for MA all year and just claim a credit for NY taxes paid. In theory (and if that what he wants). Haven’t filed in either state personally. Domicile may matter if you care about things like in-state tuition for you and your kids.

      1. appreciate your anecdotal info! We did discuss the MA credit idea, will have to run all ways to confirm.

        1. If he still has a MA drivers license and voter registration, MA may still argue that he is domiciled there not withstanding that he may live in NY for work. Those are two aggressive states with asserting their primacy to tax people.

    2. Is your husband working remotely or in the office in NyC? This matters and it’s super annoying.

      Basically if he is 100% remote he pays state taxes in the state he is resident in. If he is hybrid, he needs to file in NYS as a non resident and apply the taxes paid in NYS to the taxes owed in MA as a resident.

  18. I know that there are a lot of higher ed people here. I have a kid on the autism spectrum (f/k/a Asperger’s). She was diagnosed late (before, she was just a quirky non-disruptive kid). She is smart. But she could easily grow into the employee above on the PIP for soft skills. I see that a lot of colleges now have programs for neurodiverse students. That is great — geographically, we are looking at Marshall and Furman and some schools in the SEUS (and looking at = possibly taking a long weekend this summer to check out very informally for vibes, etc.). And yet, as we start thinking about what her future path is, I am really concerned that even good programs and private OT focused on employability skills won’t be enough to launch a kid like this into getting and keeping a job. We are trying on our own with starter jobs and volunteering this summer, but as a parent, I found a lot of guidance for kids who are 0-12 months and nothing for the exact boat we’re in. If you work at a college, particularly one like Landmark or Cutty that has a large ND student body, is it realistic to think that kids will really blossom and be able to hold jobs? I know a lot of discernment is needed about which jobs will work for which kids, but I just need a light at the end of the tunnel right now. Everything lately feels like a train. [I know kiddo can live on her own. I think she would enjoy college, even if she started at a local campus of our state school first. She is learning to drive. It’s just the job part, particularly soft skills, that I so worry about with her. And worrying by me is not going to be what fixes the problem.]

    1. I don’t have any advice, but I want to cheer you on for trying hard, exposing your kid to new experiences like a summer job, encouraging her to consider going to college, etc. I am a parent of a neurodiverse kid, and my goodness, it is hard to know how to best prepare kids for the path ahead. I get worried, too. One step at a time is all that we can do.

    2. I’m in HE but not based in the US. I think this is something big employers can and will grapple with over the coming years. My husband works for government, and they’ve got specific programmes to support ND employees and a focus on helping employees find roles where they can thrive. People do often wear the sunflower lanyards which I think grant them a bit more understanding if their social cues aren’t great. He has an employee who is great at systems, not great at dealing with people, so he’s moved her when possible over to those systems.

      1. I agree with you that a reckoning on soft skills and neurodiversity in the workplace is coming. My mom is a HS teacher and she thinks the negative effects of the COVID lockdown years on her students are still coming to light.

        1. For most, I don’t think advancement to the highest levels is ever going to stop requiring good soft skills, even if there is some kind of “reckoning”.

    3. She may be aging out of some of them, but look for a social skills focused summer camp. I believe there are some that cater to 16-17 year olds.

    4. Has she ever received speech therapy focused on “speech pragmatics”? It’s common for ASD learners to need the complete rationale behind social conventions to be explained before they will “click” (often they need any convention they’re going to consider complying with to be ethically justified as well). Modeling, exposure, socialization, and other osmosis-based approaches that work for other learners are typically not helpful.

      One thing to know is that there can be developmental accelerations and delays. It’s possible that these skills will arrive, just not on the same time frame as other students.

      If she made it this long without a diagnosis, do you have a sense of how badly she’ll need it in college? My sense is that a lot of SLACs are inclusive of many kinds of neurodiversity at baseline, with or without diagnosis. Developing an area of subject matter expertise can help; soft skills matter a lot more for some jobs than others. There are studies that the hardest part of employment for many ASD workers is the job interview; they can do fine once employed.

      1. Thanks — a lot of the Dx was delayed by COVID, backlogs, etc., so it’s probably delayed from when it became apparent that kiddo didn’t just have ADHD (combined type), so it’s not like she masks well, it was just mislabeled for a long time. She has never been invited to a birthday party or really had friends for about 5 years now (she has some acquaintances, which she enjoys, but I do feel that if she could better connect with someone other than her family, she would be immensely enriched by it and it may take getting into a college environment for her to find her people).

        School won’t give her speech because she can actually communicate and her struggles don’t hinder her academically. We had some speech therapy last year after years of waiting, but the provider went out on maternity leave and her new hours don’t work for our school / driver’s ed / club schedule and the other providers have a backlog with existing clients. We did find an autism-focused OT though, so that is what we have for now.

        1. Discouraged that school won’t give speech therapy despite the friendship situation. I feel like schools sell themselves as being good for socialization until the minute someone needs support with socialization, and then they’re all about academics!

          Understand about the ADHD/ASD thing and the delayed Dx. If she has any special interests, taking classes or getting involved in a related activity can sometimes be a way to find people before college (or connect with mentors if not peers).

          1. This is sort of my fear with any program to support ND or LD kids at college — it is easy to put together a website and even charge a fee to enter a program that may make some promised. But in college, my understanding is that a kid needs to be very much a self-starter with seeking accommodations (there are no IEPs in college), contacting disability or student support services, making and going to appointments, and all of the “executive functioning” that that entails. Parents, due to the privacy rights given to all 18 year olds, will not be able to talk to school personnel about how things are really going. I see how a school may promise the world but not deliver it. A FB group that I follow for ASD parents of teens is really disheartened as people report how their admitted student tours and meetings have gone and a lot of nightmares (kids cleared medically to have a single in a dorm fail to get an on-campus housing, etc.). Schools from K-12 and beyond have a track record of not serving this community well (so anyone holler if you know of a college really doing well on this front).

          2. That is why you need a SLAC with guaranteed on-campus housing, required appointments with academic advisors for all students, etc. I have attended and worked at large public schools and small private schools. For the most part the small schools are invested in every student’s success and are going to keep kids from falling through the cracks in a way that large schools won’t bother with.

          3. Consider looking for universities that have strong “academic coaching” programs. Checking with a coach on a regular basis (e.g. weekly) can make a huge difference for accessing everything the university offers. It also creates a paper trail of engagement that can demonstrate the student’s good faith efforts if obstacles do arise. A good program will have staff trained in working with ADHD and LD students on what they sometimes call “scaffolding” and external supports. It’s also a good idea to work on independence now (I cannot tell you how many first year students arrive at college without any habits surrounding calendars or appointments — as an adult with ADHD, I would be lost without Google Calendar and its alerting features!).

          4. I should say that a school where EVERY student gets the needed accommodations by default (like a well resourced SLAC) can work better than a big school where many students will fall through the cracks, and where ADHD/ASD/LD students are only accommodated if they identify as such and jump through the necessary hoops. But career ambitions matter, since the degrees and professional programs won’t all be the same at different types of schools.

    5. Your last sentence is key. I don’t see much in your post about what your daughter wants and what steps she is taking to make her future.

      1. She says that she wants to go to college and has envisioned some jobs, which we help her learn more about. She understands educational requirements and what people do on the job (for any parents: the Exploring part of Scouts is really helpful in our city for this — kids can learn about being an EMT, a police officer, and many other fields to enter after high school or college), but will likely struggle with interviewing and competing with NT candidates and also with the soft skills needed for getting / keeping / advancing once you have a job (the above post sort of brought this concern home).

    6. It may take a few jobs before finding the right fit, but unless she is doing unambiguously offensive things or acting with malice, there are plenty of jobs where no one bats an eye at missed social cues, or emails whose “tone” is a bit off, working in a dark office, or any other number of things. Many of the folks here work in very formal or otherwise stiff environments. Maybe that’s what you need to do to make the really big bucks, I dunno. But… there are professional jobs out there where people with all kinds of differences are embraced (for me that was higher ed admin and now IT).

      1. yep, there are many places in STEM where your hard skills are valued higher than interpersonal ones (sometimes to a ridiculous degree).

      2. I have never been diagnosed with autism but my daughter has and we are exact replicas of each other. I work in a very formal environment (partner in AmLaw 100 firm) and I love it because everyone follows the script. I can read a workplace etiquette book and then just follow the directions exactly and it works. I wear a suit every day because I know it follows the rules and I don’t have to navigate exactly what is appropriate. I had good grades in law school and found OCI delightful because it was so structured – each interview followed the same pattern so I could repeat the phrases, gestures and questions I had practiced. So I have thrived in a very structured, formal environment whereas I would not have been able to navigate a workplace with more flexibility or ambiguity.

        1. +1 to this but coming from a consulting background. You learn by listening to more senior folks and mirroring them and there is absolutely a ‘uniform’ that is pretty easy to replicate. I’ve done well by simply absorbing and learning the expected jargon and working within existing template. There is also a lot of encouragement to ‘ask smart questions’ and ‘explore other viewpoints’ which works well for my ND brain.

        2. May I ask which practice area you are in? I feel that my area can seem very formal / structured but is a lot what makes it work is soft-skills — how to nicely tell someone higher up the chain on the client side that you need them to do X by Y date, etc. I am good b/c I am competent but I am successful because I make a choice to do things to move the ball down the field and think outside the box a LOT on that. And there is no structure with kids — they get sick, schools close, cars break down and it’s a crisis and not an inconvenience.

          My Ex-H used to yell at me that I was autistic when we fought and before our child was diagnosed. No one else has ever suggested that I’m on the spectrum.

        3. That’s really interesting. I’ve never been able to mimic well enough to pass in that sort of place – at best it came off as odd and at worst, as being a smart-ass. I’ve thrived in environments where I can wear my “uniform” and it’s fine because no one gives a damn what anyone wears, or where directness is an asset, and like the other poster who works as a subject matter expert, what I bring to the table outweighs the fact that I struggle with convincingly making small talk or whatnot. I’ve also been fortunate to have a few really great bosses who have helped with finessing some things in a way that makes sense.

    7. If at all possible steer your daughter into an individual contributor role for something highly specialized and unionized. I have the ’tism, and most of my colleagues are neurodiverse. We are all specialists in really weird specific stuff we love. Being unionized prevent us from being fired for being ‘direct’ and allows us to thrive with mandatory accomodation. You can ‘teach’ soft skills but it will be a mask, something your daughter has to constantly think about and actively implement. Most autistic people hate lying and aren’t very good at it but the majority of neurotypical communication is telling the socially acceptable lies, it is soul crushing to lie all the time when you aren’t wired to do so and causes burn out and health issues. Just FYI Aspergers isn’t a diagnosis anymore, it’s ASD 1.

      1. This is really interesting and I want to know more! Can you give some examples of the “individual contributor for something highly specialized and unionized”?

        1. Well personally I work for Government as an expert for a UN body on a specific convention, but my colleagues work on niche science, policy, legislation writing etc. We are all basically the world’s foremost experts on our weird specialty. It’s a very global community since most countries usually only have one or two experts per issue. My social issues aren’t really an issue in this sort of role because exactness of language and being precise matters.

          1. That is really not where my mind went when you said unionized jobs. Although now iIRC IRS employees and attorneys are unionized.

        2. I’m in state government and this describes me and basically my entire agency – nerds who are the #1 expert in their own specific thing. Internally, management respects that most of us hate small talk, and know not to ask us our opinion if they don’t want a brutally honest answer. None of us bat an eye when we talk very directly and bluntly with one another. We have a good communications department to help us make our weird knowledge consumable to a larger audience, and they review external / public material for tone.

          tl/dr – don’t get discouraged, there are lots of workplaces (especially now that there are so many options to telework) where your kid’s limitations won’t hold her back.

      2. I know a lot of people like this in the utility industry. Lots of niche technical and economic issues.

    8. I know several young adults like you describe and honestly the ones who are the most successful and independent are the ones whose parents do not assume the worst and encourage them to go to college and pursue careers they find interesting where their “quirks” are not going to be an issue. Tech careers are one place where these kids can often find a place. The ones who struggle are the ones whose parents have low expectations and don’t support and encourage their development.

    9. I do wonder: are all these programs just a way to deal with declining enrollment (from fewer kids being in the college pool due to falling birthrates) or are the kids who graduate from these programs going on to independent living with jobs on par with their non-autistic peers (or at least significantly above the ASD-1 population in general)? Do they have good leads on companies with ND hiring programs (e.g., Microsoft)? Sometimes you can send a kid to a program all you want, but once the program ends you are starting over again, just with a degree (and sometimes not even that — College of Charleston has a program that I understand is residential and you take classes, but they may not even be college credit classes or lead to a degree — still, it may be a good ramp up option for some kids and until you try something, you never truly know).

      I wonder for some kids, it is reasonable to re-think 4 years of residential college as maybe a starter year or two at community college with a structured transition into a degree at a 4-year school or something else that works but maybe in 4-6 years vs 4 years?

      1. This comment is pretty offensive. As someone with ASD 1, I have a degree from one of the most prestigious universities in the world, I make six figures, own a home, am married, and frankly am a more functional adult than most people.

        1. I think it is realistic to think that some schools will over-promise and under-deliver.

        2. I’m glad that things are going well for you. It’s a relief as a parent to see that. What always makes me concerned is how ASD-1 is grouped with all ASD and then you read things like 40% of autistic adults have any jobs at all or that the life expectancy is several decades shorter than non-autistic people (IIRC, somewhere in your 40s vs 70s; I suspect that this includes a sad but large number of autistic children who drown, but I don’t know and it seems that the stats provide more alarm than information). There seem to be no good resources and each kid with ASD is so uniquely affected and has unique needs (and no parent is really adequately given the right resources for their kids, it’s just all figuring it out a day late and a dollar short and many of us strive blindly to help or find the right resources).

          1. Caring parents are an invaluable resource! Please don’t be too scared by those statistics.

            I think some of the life expectancy (if it’s not from a congenital comorbidity) is from medical neglect, so that is something to watch out for. (Doctors often chalk up symptoms to hypervigilance or something like anxiety instead of a medical condition, partly because of poor communication across the empathy gap, partly because the medical issues can be different or present differently.)

            There’s an increased risk of being the victim of a crime (I personally believe in dropping any feminist ideas about equality and following more old fashioned ideas about risk avoidance here). And comorbid ADHD comes with a lower life expectancy from issues with attention while driving. But in general, the same resources that help anyone succeed can make a tremendous difference (opportunities, education, mentorship).

          2. I think a lot of the statistics on life outcomes for autistic people miss the late diagnosed and ASD 1 folks. I wasn’t diagnosed until 28 and if it weren’t for the tax benefits I probably wouldn’t have bothered being diagnosed at all. There’s a lot of autistic people (especially AFAB) who fly under the radar because we’re able to mask pretty well and have systems in place to make up for our deficits so society just thinks we’re “quirky”. I’ve never been unemployed, and I was actually a competitive swimmer as a kid.

        3. My roommate at Harvard is autistic, and she wasn’t the only one. She make buckets of money in tech.

      2. Community college would actually be a disaster for the ND kids I know. They do best in a residential college environment with less bureaucracy and more personal attention. Add to that the fact that community college will not have any academic courses that are useful to a smart kid who is transferring to a 4-year college and needs major prerequisites and not the intro/remedial and vocational courses offered at a community college.

    10. Mom to a ND 9yo so following along. I will say that a girlfriend of mine was diagnosed late (45) with autism – she had been a very successful student (HYS undergrad, multiple graduate degrees at T14 schools) but work has always always been a struggle for her. Now that she knows her diagnosis she’s realizing “it’s not just her…” but finding a good fit has always been really hard because of the soft skills/mix of personalities.

    11. I supervise/work with a lot of young adults in their first job out of school. I do not know whether any of them are neurodivergent, but they ALL have a learning curve when it comes to office norms, professional communication, etc. There’s probably more room to make mistakes and figure this stuff out for early-career people (without any overt accommodations) than you may realize.

      1. This. I used to hire and supervise a lot of people who had just graduated with a master’s degree or a PhD. The ones who had never had an adult full-time job before tended to need a lot of support for the first couple of years until they figured out how to navigate the professional world. What I noticed over the years was that as time went on we got more and more entry-level hires who were not open to this learning and would make ridiculous entitled demands, such as “you should pay me more because I choose to work remotely from a VHCOL area” and “you should promote me to be equal to the PI who has 15 years’ experience and an international reputation because I was put in charge of one tiny component of the project.”

    12. My kid was diagnosed with autism, ADHD, and anxiety her first year of college. Like yours, she was a quirky, introverted kid who was never a problem in class, so slipped through until she recognized that she was struggling her first year. We were worried about her going to college, but after those first-year bumps, she is doing really well, with As and Bs. She even had a job as a barista last summer, which went better than we dared hope – she left with a good recommendation from her supervisor and was friendly with her co-workers. She is working toward an animal-focused degree, will be getting a car this summer, and is excited about her courses. There are still tough patches (mostly roommate issues complicated by social anxiety), but at the same time she made a phone call about an appointment by herself yesterday! We didn’t even write a script together. It sounds silly, but it was a major milestone. Do I still worry about her living on her own and having a career? Yes, but it isn’t keeping me up at night. Long story short, there is a lot of growing up during college for everyone, including ND kids,

    13. Poster about the PIP here –

      I do suspect that this employee may be on the spectrum. But obviously I don’t know and this is not in the US so its a whole ‘nother ball game. Even with this employee, if she communicated more (aka wrote messages in Slack, not in person) and did more of her assigned tasks, the parts that may be neurodivergence wouldn’t stand out at all. Also, she’s been at the company for a while – I haven’t managed her the whole time.
      I think there are loads of jobs (tech, IT, research) which could suit your daughter.

  19. I am the anon poster who asked about death and dying yesterday and just wanted to thank everyone for their thoughtful responses. I have thought about volunteering with a hospice and started the process last year but stalled out. Yesterday’s conversation has inspired to start again. I’ve also added some books to my reading queue. Thank you!

    P.S. I love the Good Place and think I will rewatch the finale this weekend :)

    1. I have been a hospice volunteer for many years. It is a deeply moving and impactful experience.

  20. Workout wear question. I am getting back into running after a long hiatus and looking for running tights that are tight/almost compressive (but I don’t need compression technology). Just something that is designed to keep it all in. For reference I only have lululemon align leggings since I wore those through two pregnancies and the pandemic WFH era, and whatever I used to own I somehow don’t have anymore. Thanks!

    1. My favorite warmer weather running bottoms are from the Oiselle pocket jogger line – I have knickers/capris, and long shorts. I’m jiggly and they are pretty compressive. They also are sold by number size so you can customize the fit a bit more.

      1. Almost all of my workout gear is from Under Armour. They have an online outlet section for quality gear that’s very cheap compared to all the others.

    2. I like the Athleta Elation tights for a little more support than the Align. You might also try the LLL Wunder Train, although I find them too hot.

    3. I’m the original OP, thank you all – this is exactly what i needed! A lot of good options.

    4. I have some REI brand longish tight fit shorts I love. I forget what they were sold as but it was something generic like “training shorts” and they’re the REI house brand

    5. Post baby belly here…I like the old navy full length high waisted powersoft leggings.

  21. Does anyone use the online dermatologist called Dr.B? They seem to be one of the few that will prescribe soolantra for rosacea and I desperately need a new script. I’m squeezing the remains from an expired tube after having it under control for so long with my cetaphil/azelic acid routine.

    1. you can get an ivermectin mix for Rosacea from Curology. Mine is ivermectin (soolantra), metronidazole, and azelaic acid. My dermatologist approves of it. It’s $40 for a two month supply. I’ve seen great results.

      1. Oh wait, I think it might be more like $60 for two months now, which is still less than my dermatologist’s initial suggestion of a local compounding pharmacy.

        They have other products you can add on. I like their lip balm, cleanser, and rich moisturizer.

  22. Tax Q – my husband and I normally get a huge federal refund (~$10k on a ~$200k HHI) but usually end up owing a few hundred to the state. Does anyone know why? I want to adjust our witholdings so we don’t have such a huge refund, but I don’t want to end up owing thousands to the state come tax time.

    1. my taxes are similar

      Are you in a high tax State

      Do you have a lot of investment income gains

      sorry my question mark disappeared on my texting keyboard.

      my state taxes my investment income at the full rate while my fed tax rate is lower on investment income. I just pay some higher estimated tax towards the state outside of withholding.

      1. Not a high tax state I don’t think – it’s a flat 4.25 % (Indiana )

        We have some CDs and HYSAs that generate maybe $500 of interest, nothing huge.

    2. I feel like I end up owing the state tax on the federal refund because that was money they didn’t get to tax the first time around. That may not be at all accurate though, I can’t for the life of me remember why I think that.

      1. That is a thing. If you got a 10k federal refund last year, state may want to tax it this year. So if you tweak your withholding for federal, you may also see the state owing reduced, but if this is the cause it would be one year delayed.

  23. Can anyone recommend a good compounding pharmacy for tirzepatide? Henry Meds? Mochi Health? TIA…

    1. My experience with Mochi Health has been great so far! To clarify, Mochi are the medical providers, and they send the prescription to compounding pharmacies–in my case, Hallandale Pharmacy, though I believe they use others as well. I just had my first injection (semaglutide) yesterday, just a week after my first meeting with a Mochi doc, so shipping was quick and easy too. They also tried to get my insurance to give a prior authorization for name-brand meds, but they told me ahead of time that it was unlikely without additional medical concerns (beyond obesity).

      It’s $79/month for the doctor and nutritionist visits (and excellent customer support folks!), and then a flat amount for the medicine (something like $175/month for sema and $350/month for tirz). You can use my $40 off code if you’d like: ERVHAL. I used someone else’s when I started and it made the first month of membership cheap enough to feel low-risk in case I decided not to move forward.

      Good luck! I’m excited for the journey ahead. :)

    2. the recs I’ve seen are Mochi, Emerge, and I just ordered from Orderlymeds (waiting for my Rx to ship).

  24. Angry Friday vent. There are so many people in my organization that overuse the “high importance” indicator on emails that it drives me nuts. I wish I could disable it.

    1. I hate the fact that that button even exists. It gives me the knee-jerk impulse to delete the email without reading. I would say 90% of the time someone uses it, the message is not important or urgent to me as the recipient; it’s just urgent or important to the sender.

    2. You can create a rule in outlook that downgrades high priority to normal priority for a particular sender. I haven’t figured out how to disable high priority in general, unfortunately. I don’t think I’ve ever received a high priority email that was actually high priority.

      1. ugh, me either. Does anyone react to that ! with “oh I’d better read this right away” as opposed to “GFY”?

        1. I actually never look at the priority flag. Should I have been doing that? I’m 30+ years into my career, probably not going to change now.

          If something is urgent or high priority, I expect people to tell me that with their words. I may still not agree with their assessment of urgency, but at least they can try telling me. I’m not changing my behavior based on a flag.

    3. There’s a relatively lower-level employee in my org who sends terse, “following up on the below” emails if she doesn’t get a response to her truly, truly non-urgent requests to the legal department (ie me) within 6 hours. It makes me want to SCREAM. And, of course, delay my response.

    4. I work with someone who sends every email with as a high priority and also attaches a reminder for 24 hrs later so I get a pop up reminder to look at the email. When I get around to responding I put a delayed delivery to the end of the day.

  25. Cross-posting from the mom’s site since I’m generally interested in broader recommendations! Thanks all!

    Recommendations for London with kids? Will be there in early August with kids ages 9, 8, 5 and 2! Thanks!

    1. an acquaintance of mine started doing travel agent type work and she took her 11ish and 9ish year old boys last fall. Highlights are in her saved stories – things like good museums (t-nsport, natural history), kid-friendly dining (tea and otherwise) that’s also in places adults would enjoy, Wizarding World, etc. @laurabdugantravel

    2. Definitely Wizarding World of Harry Potter if your older kids are into that. Book tickets as soon as possible as they do sell out.
      Also recommend Tower of London, Natural History Museum, Diana Memorial Playground (next to Kensington Palace) and taking a Thames Cruise. Haven’t been in/on it, but the Cutty Sark in Greenwich seems to be very kid oriented. And West End shows can be kid friendly depending on what’s playing when you’re there. The Lion King is a classic. I’ve seen Matilda the Musical on the West End, which is a bit darker than the movie but there were tons of kids when I went to see it (the dark bits may have mostly gone over their heads).

    3. The 9 and 8 years olds may enjoy one of the tours of the Tower of London. My kids did.

    4. We really liked the Science Museum when we went with our then-two year old. we went chose the Science museum because the Natural History Museum had a huge line and it was raining so we just wanted to go somewhere. There was a playspace in the basement level for little kids which was great for our toddler, but also really fascinating exhibits in the rest of the place for the grown ups.

    5. Some friends really recommend Sky Garden, and it’s free! You just have to watch the advance online ticket portal closely, they sell out fast.

  26. Shopping PSA – Boden has a lot of cute patterened rash guards and ‘swim shorts’ (bike shorts). I wore one of the sets to a water park over spring break and having more bottom coverage was SO nice and I didn’t burn despite intense sun all day. Two other moms also asked where I got the set from so despite it being very ‘mom’ swimwear I think it was at least reasonably cute!

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