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Anonymous
Now that women can no longer travel safely in certain states due to the unavailability of emergency pregnancy-related health care, is the ABA (or other organizations) doing anything to ensure that women can equally participate in conferences? If professional conferences are held in those states, then women will have to risk their lives in order to take advantage of the same career opportunities that are accessible to men. It seems that ensuring equal access would mean avoiding those states, or at least covering the cost of emergency airlifts for any woman who needs it. Is anyone aware of any effort to do this? Any advice on how to broach this topic with my firm for work-related events?
anon
This seems very overblown for multiple reasons.
Anonymous
It doesn’t at all to me. I’m at a lawyers conference now and we are discussing breaking our two years out contract if their trigger law goes into effect.
Anon
Any attorney should be capable of reading the laws of the states that banned or restricted elective abortions. Someone very helpfully put together a list of every state and its relevant laws on exemptions for ectopic pregnancies, miscarriage, and life of the mother.
Anon
My very red state has “exceptions” for “life of the mother in an emergency” and ectopic pregnancies. Do I want to be the one testing how doctors and hospital lawyers interpret those exceptions when my life is on the line? No.
Anon
Edited to add– I don’t want ANYONE testing those laws, but I only have control over myself.
Anon
This doesn’t seem overblown at all to me. Pregnant and having a miscarriage but there is still a heartbeat? Sepsis. Ectopic pregnancy? It is now unsafe to travel to some states.
Anonymous
No, not overblown at all. If you are pregnant and experiencing a medical emergency, you may not be well enough to travel. It absolutely happens. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/23/world/europe/malta-abortion-andrea-prudente.html
Anonymous
Name one of those ‘multiple reasons’. I would 100% not feel comfortable attending a conference in a location that did not provide appropriate healthcare options for pregnant women. My sister almost died having her second baby in a university hospital because her uterine rupture was not caught immediately. Her baby did die and 2 miscarriages later, she 100% would not be able to attend a conference at any stage of a pregnancy in a location that did not provide fulsome healthcare for woman. I also avoided international conferences in Ireland before they changed their laws to enable women’s lives to be protected. I did not feel safe traveling there during my pregnancies after what happened there.
Women should not have to disclose their pregnancies or other medical issues to their employers in order to explain why they cannot attend a conference in a particular location. Conferences simply should not be offered in locations where women cannot access appropriate healthcare.
Anon
Yup – while pregnant I made sure my husband knew in case of an emergency not to take me to the local catholic hospital and to go to the other local one — in case of a horrific decision I wanted me and, if I was unconscious, my husband to be able to make the decision not have it unavailable due to the hospital we went to.
Monday
Well said. And what about the real possibility of finding out you are pregnant while in one of these states, and then needing urgent medical care? You could travel there thinking local law on this was a non-issue, and then find out you were wrong.
anon
I’m not so sure it is. In cases of miscarriage or ectopic pregnancy, time is of the essence to take care of things.
Anon
Yup another vote that this is not overblown. Read about what just happened to the American tourist on a babymoon in Malta whose placenta detached at 17 weeks. Her baby was effectively dead, but the doctors there couldn’t abort because it had a heartbeat and Malta has an abortion ban like half the US states soon will. She might have gotten an infection and died if she’d just sat around waiting for the baby’s heartbeat to cease. She was able to fly to Spain and get the abortion she needed, but not everyone is financially or medically able to travel at the last minute. Traveling to a place that bans abortion while pregnant is risking your life, full stop.
Anon
Everyone I know is canceling and changing travel plans. A friend who is pregnant (and high risk) is no longer going to a family wedding in Ohio.
I know so many women who had ectopic pregnancies or late term complications, including 2 women I know who lost very wanted pregnancies past 20 weeks and 1 woman who had a stillbirth at 37 weeks. These were all such awful awful experiences for them and their families but I am so incredibly thankful that these women did not die as a result.
A friend had a first trimester miscarriage while at a work conference in Texas a few years ago. I’m terrified to think what would have happened if this happened today.
Women will die at work conferences as a result of these laws. I don’t know how to explain to you that women dying because of lack of access to needed medical care is a bad thing.
anon
You should read the Texas law before opining on this. It clearly says treatment for miscarriage is not affected.
Anon
That would require the medical providers to believe you are having a miscarriage. Medical treatment should be medical treatment, period.
Anonymous
That’s what the law in Ireland said until they had to update it because women with wanted pregnancies kept dying from sepsis.
Girlonawireless
It says “medical emergency,” which the Act conveniently does not define. It also requires the physician to make and retain detailed records documenting the physician’s determination that the “medical emergency” exception applies. And the physician can still be subjected to a lawsuit under the Act’s bounty-hunter scheme.
Anon
Why would it be problematic to believe that someone is having a miscarriage? What am I missing here? [Not an OB/GYN.]
PolyD
Not an OB either, but I think the issue is that a miscarriage is virtually indistinguishable from a medical abortion. I don’t know why the assumption would be that a woman miscarrying tried to abort, but I’m also not a lawyer so I don’t know the legal risks in assuming miscarriage rather than abortion.
Anonymous
Because a provider could treat a miscarriage and then be prosecuted for illegally performing an abortion…or more likely, they would refuse to treat a miscarriage (or delay) because they’re afraid they’d be prosecuted. The treatment for miscarriage is often identical to an abortion procedure/pills.
Anonymous
Because they may refuse treatment if they think you are bleeding from a self-induced abortion. They will likely refuse to provide any treatment until they have verified there is no heartbeat no matter that other things may have occurred which are incompatible with life like a detached placenta. Just have to hope you don’t get sepsis or your uterus doesn’t rupture before the heartbeat stops.
Anon
But you can do an ultrasound to see if there is a heartbeat. When I was 11 weeks, the heartbeat wasn’t there and I was bleeding and hadn’t grown since the prior appointment at week 8, so that was pretty darn conclusive that baby had died and just was tissue waiting to be expelled. My cervix had opened, so that was inevitable. IDK how this differs, if it does. The lack of a heartbeat at an advanced fetal age is conclusive as to how life begins and then fails to hold on.
Anon
A woman in Louisiana went to the hospital for an ectopic pregnancy and had to wait 9 hours after diagnosis for the hospital to consult with their attorneys to determine whether the doctor would lose his license for treating her. Meanwhile, she ruptured and by the end of the ordeal required major surgery and several blood transfusions. She nearly died.
I’m not traveling to states with abortion bans. Even if it’s not a risk to me personally, they don’t get my money.
Anonymous
There can still be a heartbeat long after the miscarriage begins and infection sets in. That is what happened to the woman in Ireland who died and the American in Malta who had to be evacuated to Spain by air ambulance.
Anonymous
It’s not about whether the doctor believes you are having a miscarriage. It’s about the doctor being afraid of being accused of performing an abortion by providing proper care for the miscarriage or ectopic pregnancy.
Anon2
When I had a miscarriage five years ago and went to the hospital, there was no heartbeat. However, the hospital said I would have to see my OB/GYN to get confirmation of no heartbeat before I could be treated; they were only willing to confirm the lack of heartbeat and would not schedule me for any procedures or give me any medication unless and until my own OB/GYN signed off on it. This, by the way, was the hospital where my OB/GYN was admitted where I have been a patient multiple times, not some random hospital I’d never been too. It was Saturday night and I was sent home with aspirin and proceeded to have my miscarriage lying and sobbing on my bathroom floor. It was in Texas in February 2017. My OB/GYN confirmed my miscarriage on Monday morning, and only then did I get treatment, including pain medication, getting checked out for excessive bleeding, and imaging to make sure there was no remaining tissue or other problem. I’m in Texas and since that miscarriage have been blessed with two healthy children. My husband and I agree we will no longer try for a third. We’re older, I’ve had two miscarriages and two pregnancies that had complications (even though those ended up okay), and we aren’t risking it.
Anon2
*edit to the above – they were only willing to confirm that there was no heartbeat, but not that the fetus was no longer viable. Quite the distinction that continues to elude me.
Coach Laura
I’m late to this thread, but this is already happened. Happened at 11:30pm on Friday. Read the description in the IG of Dr. Pooja Lakshmin @poojalakshmin – doctor who relates a story of a woman with an ectopic pregnancy who had to wait while the doctor and the hospital’s lawyer reviewed – for NINE HOURS. She had 600cc of blood in her abdomen, her fallopian tube ruptured and she almost died. Ludicrous, really, but reality.
Anon
Anon at 12:37 — I am truly sorry you went through that. A miscarriage of a wanted pregnancy, especially, is a painful situation.
I hope you have some empathy and understanding that not every miscarriage presents in the same way, and not every doctor or medical experience is as compassionate as it sounds like yours was.
Actual medical professionals have said that these laws will have negative effects on patient care. Actual women have had lived experiences where their care was compromised or fatal or almost fatal. Their experiences are valid, too, and what this thread is about.
Curious
A friend had a fly home quickly from Texas because she had a wanted pregnancy but had had a recent miscarriage requiring a D&C and was concerned about the quality of reproductive care she would have access to should she lose her pregnancy again. It doesn’t matter the letter of the law when even the appearance of aiding an abortion can lead to years in court. How would you prove it’s a miscarriage?
anonshmanon
Somewhat related, the American Physical Society issued a policy a while back, to consider certain minimum standards of police training, conduct and transparency for selecting cities to hold society meetings. This was done in order to protect researchers of color.
anon
Wow this is way excessive good grief. If you broach this topic at work everyone will think you are totally insane
Anonymous
Not true at all. Moving conventions because states enact hateful laws is not new.
Anon
Contracts are generally signed years in advance. Who is going to pay the breakage costs or are you just going to sack people to make up the difference? Pretty sure the fat cats aren’t going to let themselves get less fat and it will come on the backs of those least able to bear the cost of this, as it usually does.
Curious
See above. Apparently not. And even if so: is it not a reasonable thing to ask?People are so fond of telling women they’re hysterical when we want to protect our bodies and children.
Formerly Lilly
Oh god yes. “Don’t be dramatic”. “You’re hysterical”. These and the like seem to be the go to response for minimizing if not outright denying a woman’s concerns. It’s bad enough when men do it, let’s not do it to each other. If, perchance, one does think that a woman has out-sized concerns, why not calmly explore that with her, instead of using this dehumanizing and frankly rather rude response. Also, pregnant women may develop immediate medical needs that have been swept away by Dobbs – it’s not an out-sized worry. It’s real and it’s here.
Anon
We are actively discussing this at my work. I don’t know why you think it’s “insane.”
Anne-on
At my workplace they announced on Friday that our healthcare will now be covering travel/hotel costs if you live in a state that doesn’t provide your needed medical services or need to go out of state to obtain necessary care. This kicks in for events/client work/vacation. It stinks that you need to disclose private medical information to your employer, but I’d rather do that than not be covered.
Anon
Is your health insurance administering this? If so, at least your personal info is separate from the medical info so there is no way for your employer to know it was you. That is what my F50 company is doing.
OP
This is part of my concern. A lot of people – even women – are in deep denial about the danger we’re in. One of my pro-choice(!) Facebook friends even made a long post explaining our fears of women dying are overblown because most of these laws have life of the mother exceptions. Yeah, ask Savita Halappanavar about how life of the mother exceptions work in real life. It’s shocking and discouraging that people are so willfully blind.
Anon
Nope. A pregnant woman travels to Texas for work and ends up in the hospital with an ectopic pregnancy? She could die.
anon
Read the law. It expressly does not apply to ectopic pregnancies. Any doctor who acts differently should be subject to malpractice and more.
Anon
You’re probably the same person posting over and over, but I’ll just keep responding to you by noting that actual medical professionals have opined on the chilling effect these laws have for providing essential treatment in a timely manner. It doesn’t matter what the law SAYS if women are afraid to seek treatment and doctors are afraid to give it.
roxie
find me a doctor (or more likely, a hospital lawyer) willing to risk the huge fine and jail time that the TX (and other state laws) call for in order to provide this care
Your inability to distinguish the “law” from the practice and enforcement of said laws is disingenuous at best, naive, and insulting.
Law have chilling effects and that is a huge part of their point.
SFAttorney
Not at all for the reasons given by other posters. And since 2017 California has banned state employee travel to certain states. The list of states is unfortunatlely growing.
“AB 1887 is a California law that restricts state agencies from requiring employees to travel to any state that has enacted a law that discriminates on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression. The law also prohibits approval of state-funded or state-sponsored travel to states on the list. The restrictions apply to all CSU employees, officers, or members, as well as non-employee travelers, including students.”
Anon
I remember when people canceled events in NC over the bathroom bills. When companies have a choice of venues, why should they hold events in places that have policies that are hostile to their staff?
Anon
+1000””
Anonymous
I am skeptical that companies and organizations will step up to the same degree here, as abortion bans only target women.
Anon
Every work place is discussing this! But please keep twisting yourself into a pretzel to justify this.
Trish
Look in the mirror, anon at 10:02 am.
Anon
Who do you think you’re sticking it to by doing this? Hotel and restaurant workers? Airport ramp workers?
My employer gets noisy from time to time and then it’s all “Dude, we have offices in the middle east and China.” And then the uncomfortable squirming starts.
Businesses have business principles. You have your principles. Use them to send a check, which is the most meaningful help you could give anyone.
Anon
Huh? It’s not a question of sticking it to anyone, read the original concern.
PolyD
When I worked as a contractor for a big government agency, that agency refused to have meetings in any city that did not have indoor smoking bans. Nor did a certain disease-specific association that had yearly meetings of upwards of 20K people. No indoor smoking ban, no money for meetings from this association.
Frankly, I would like to see lots of health-related entities refuse to have meetings, especially large ones, in states that neglect people’s health, whether it’s by banning abortion, or having terrible COVID policies including having leadership that spreads lies about vaccines.
Anon
yes, all the medical associations should watch where they hold their conferences.
Anonymous
No one is trying to ‘stick it’ to anyone. They are trying to make sure they can get the healthcare they need in an emergency.
Anon
That’s kind of far afield. It’s not like they are in the outback or on a sailing ship trying to go across the Pacific with no radio. They are probably in cities where hundreds of thousands of people live every day.
Anon
I’m so confused by this comment. Are you unaware that the concern is that hospitals may be constrained by legislation from providing timely and life saving care? The concern isn’t that “hospitals don’t even exist there.”
Ribena
Did you not follow what just happened to that American tourist in Malta? She had to get airlifted to Mallorca for a life saving operation after she miscarried. Thank goodness for her travel insurance
Anon
I’m just wondering do people do this for travel generally? Like if I went Ireland or Croatia or Hong Kong or India, IDK what the rules are anywhere and I’m not sure laws are that knowable if I don’t speak / read the local language.
I’m about to rule India out after reading yet another horrific gang-rape article yesterday.
Anonymous
Pretty sure Dubin Ireland is a larger modern city. The issue is not that there are no hospitals. The issue is that they cannot provide quick, appropriate healthcare to save women’s lives. Exceptions ‘for the life of the mother’ have generally been interpreted quite restrictively. They can and have resulted in sepsis deaths during miscarriages of wanted babies in large modern university hospitals.
Anon
Girl, with love, you are in denial. The issue isn’t access to hospitals, the issue is that hospitals – even well-equipped ones with competent physicians – will be legally unable to provide life-saving care because they are under obligation to save the life of the embryo/fetus at all costs. Again, all love, but you must wake up. You are living in a new reality from the one you were living in last week. Your life is at risk if you don’t understand (or refuse to accept) what we’re talking about here.
Anon
If I was traveling internationally while pregnant, I would absolutely research local abortion laws and not travel somewhere where abortion is banned. It’s really not that hard.
Aunt Jamesina
To anon at 10:51, I absolutely thought about laws and practices around the treatment of pregnancy when traveling while pregnant. There are definitely parts of the world (like the UAE) where I would never, ever travel, expressly because of the way they treat women.
Anonymous
Just because I can’t do all the good doesn’t mean I stop trying to do anything.
Anon
I have zero problem creating economic hardships for states with abortion bans. I am no longer going to travel for recreation to any state with an abortion ban (because as others have said, I fear for my safety) and if I have the power to prevent my employer from scheduling meetings or conferences in those states, I will absolutely do it. We are already making plans, at my job, to pull out of several trade shows that are being held in trigger-ban states because our female employees don’t feel comfortable traveling there.
Actions always have consequences. It’s unfortunate that people who are not pro-ban will be impacted by people scheduling business events elsewhere. At the same time, those people can vote and have political will and maybe could do something – like elect politicians who aren’t pro-ban – to help themselves out. I realize that for many Republican voters, voting in your own self-interest is a foreign concept, but such a thing is possible.
I also just want to let the folks who are posting about “that’s overblown,” “you’re being unreasonable,” etc. – I don’t know if you’re intentionally living with your heads stuck in the sand, or you’re aware that you’re taking the patriarchy’s side here. But those attitudes – along with the comment about “don’t bring this up at work or you’ll sound crazy” – are definitely part of the problem and how we ended up where we are now. If you don’t actively want to be a tool of the patriarchy, you could absolutely make a choice not to do that. Today would be a good day to make that choice.
Curious
Agree with all of this, except I do think we should be careful saying Republican voters don’t vote in their own self-interest. At least in Washington as I’ve canvassed, I’ve found that people who don’t get raises at work feel very stressed about e.g. our new car tabs (which were very expensive) and had to make frustrating choices to make that extra $600-800 work. While I personally think that investing in transit (what that tax paid for) will long-term benefit most communities, I understand when people feel differently. When the possibility of wanting an abortion seems remote (doesn’t any emergency situation, until it happens?) and the budget is next month, it can feel like self-interest to vote R. The lack of wage growth for many years stems from Republican economic policy, yes, but that’s harder to weigh than “no new taxes.” We are never going to win if we don’t respect and understand these choices, even if we disagree.
Of course, white supremacy also benefits a lot of R voters. So there’s also that.
Curious
(I don’t mean we should bend over backwards to understand people who will never budge from the Republican party or Bernie. Done with that. But there are a lot of winnable people who vote Republican at least some of the time because of things like this.)
Seventh Sister
In my area, there is a lot of “you’re a terrible person if you don’t bike everywhere” sentiment that gets tossed around, which is not helpful because while well-off people with lots of time and flexibility can bike all over the place, it’s not feasible for many people (especially those with long commutes). The high gas prices are a real issue and there is a lot of wage stagnation, so there are plenty of people who will vote for the more conservative candidate in the next round.
Curious
Yes. And can you blame them? In a functioning multi-party system, you’re supposed to turn over power periodically! It helps keep balance! It’s just that (1) the local party and national parties are increasingly aligned, leading to options less tailored to each constituency (source: 538 2020 election coverage), (2) one party is actively trying to undermine democracy, and (3) gerrymandering, Citizens United, the reversal of the civil rights act, etc. have unfortunately made it so that there are fewer options and the system is out of whack and running toward the Handmaid’s Tale.
Anonymous
Huh x2? How better to deliver a message to elected state governors and elected state representatives than by choosing not to conduct business or attend work meetings in their state. I’m post-menopausal, but will not be attending a work conference in Texas this fall. It’s in Austin, which sucks, but the whole state can get the message when no one shows up for the conference.
Anon
I work for a M-Th travel client services job and I have the same question. Some of our “best” clients are in Texas and Georgia. I’ve asked but not gotten a response from my employer how they’ll ensure equal opportunity if our female employees are not comfortable serving clients the require spending 4 days a week in a state where they could not get safe, fast, and appropriate care if complications from a miscarriage arose while on site.
Anon
I think these people need to find a job somewhere else that is non-travel. You can’t make everyone else travel b/c you won’t. It won’t be fair to the rest of us to travel more.
Z
Its about building up the pressure on those states.
If enough people and companies decide they won’t do business in states that have certain laws, that puts pressure on the state to get rid of those laws if only for their economic interest.
Anne-on
This. Movie productions threatening to pull out of GA over bathroom bills really put a stop to some of the most egregious nonsense being put forward quickly.
If enough educated and relatively wealthy white women (because lets be honest, we often have the political capital to make a stink in ways others don’t) say ‘I’m not working in red states’ or ‘you need to put provisions in place to cover my healthcare needs’ to the Big 4/FAANG/consulting companies who need our need talent it will have an impact.
Curious
+1. The bus boycott didn’t end segregated busing out of moral outrage. It rapidly bankrupted the transit system (source: Building a Movement to End the New Jim Crow). Pressure on banks and insurance companies has also helped to end several major pipelines, including the Kinder Morgan pipeline in Canada (until Trudeau bought it. Gahhhh.). Concentrated economic pressure is an effective tool for political change.
Anonymous
The point is that the company should refuse to have any employees travel to those states.
Anon
I mean, how would you have expected them to handle it if you’d been required to travel to Finland? Or Poland? Or similarly, if a state introduces a 15-week ban, how would your country handle travel to almost all of Europe (France, for instance, bans abortion past 14 weeks).
I guess I do see this concern, but it’s the reality of the world we live in. If your country has offices in China, they’re supporting similar anti-choice policies (worse ones, I’d argue).
I get the concern, and I think it’s valid, I just sometimes get sick of the disingenuous nature of these conversations – this was a problem before Roe, just not here, and it’ll be a problem long after.
Anonymous
We can’t do everything and fix the entire world so we should do nothing? Great logic, that.
You are also (I suspect intentionally), misstating the situation in Europe. Poland is one of the more extreme examples.
I didn’t take a babymoon to the Dominican Republic because they don’t’ have an exception for the life of the mother. It’s a total ban. I also wouldn’t be traveling to China or similar locales while pregnant so not sure how that comes up. Is it easy to tell my boss I can’t travel to China in my second trimester – sure! Is it hard AF to say the same thing about Kansas or wherever? Absolutely. Domestic work travel and international work travel expectations often vary significantly. Far more people travel to attend national conferences compared to international conferences.
Anon
So now people will give women <40 and especially young unmarried women the side-eye when hiring them b/c they will be balky about work trips? This is crazy. We don't need to look this crazy when the odds are stacked against us in the corporate world already.
Anonymous
I don’t know what world you are living in where you don’t know that this already happens. In some places it happens expressly like Germany where you have to put your marital status and number of kids on your CV and other places it happens more subtly.
But women making choices about where to travel or not travel so they don’t die or suffer other bodily harm is not new and I don’t know why you are acting like it is. Try blaming the men in charge and not the women who the men are treating like collateral damage.
Aunt Jamesina
Which is EXACTLY why industries and employers should avoid states where bans are/will go into effect, so that women have no need to disclose anything!
Anonymous
Please stop calling women crazy for being scared for their lives.
Anon
Really? Do you drive a car? Or ride in one? Your sense of relative risk is . . . interesting.
Anonymous
Cars? Really? This is your great example? Whether I CHOOSE to commute by car, train, airplane or F’ing hot air balloon – the point is that the risk is a CHOICE as to what I do with my body.
Aunt Jamesina
Anon at 11:34, if you’re talking about the risk of running into healthcare trouble versus the risk of getting in a car, you of course know that risk is assessed on a risk vs. reward basis. So because most people in the US live in a car-centric world where their entire life would be severely circumscribed if they opted not to ever get in a car, people get in the car and take the precautions they can.
Conferences can easily be relocated. The entire transportation infrastructure of the US world can’t easily be changed.
Monday
Upper management at my hospital also cited the risks of driving when we (front lines) agitated for safety protections during Covid. “Well, we all take risks every day–like driving!” This is gaslighting. It’s so obviously done in bad faith that I can’t even bother to explain.
Anon
France bans elective abortions past 14 weeks. After that the decision is based on medical need, decided between the woman and her doctor. It is still available.
Anon
IDK — based on the comments here, I’d not assume that a doctor would see things my way. It seems like there is a lot of discretion.
FWIW, the OB/GYNs I know don’t even perform elective abortions. They will do a D&C for a woman where there is no fetal heartbeat at a gestational age where there should be one (or where one existed but has ceased). But not otherwise.
Just b/c you have a right, doesn’t mean that someone will help you exercise it. Or that there is a person, but in a facility 6 hours away from you.
anonymous for this
I’m as upset as anyone, but this isn’t a doctor blog. Based on comments here I would assume exactly nothing about doctors.
In fact, of the many actual doctors I know it’s usually the opposite situation — where they go out of their way and often at risk to their license to help people in whatever way’s necessary.
Actions should have consequences but let’s not act like we are all walking around pregnant at every moment. Why isn’t it enough to simply say, “I wont go there regardless of if I am pregnant because I morally disagree with —“? By this line of reasoning only people who are or suspect they may be pregnant shouldn’t travel to red states. Is that the path we want to take? To invite employers to seek out that information? To find out which of their employees went thru menopause so they can travel? This notion that we are all in equal danger in Texas and Oklahoma at all times strikes me a bit like those people who tell their waiter they are allergic to something they just want left off their order. All that does is make restaurants take allergies less seriously.
Anonymous
In terms of a doctor not seeing things your way – litigation of health care workers is not generally a thing world wide. A French doctor at a public hospital or private practice is not going to be afraid of being sued or being implicated in a legal issue.
anonshmanon
France allows abortions for any reason up to 14 weeks, and to preserve the physical or mental health of the mother beyond 14 weeks. Poland allows abortion if the mother’s life is in danger, and so do Finland and China, which also allows other reasons earlier in the pregnancy.
We are talking about traveling to a place where one would not be able to receive life-saving care in an emergency because the law ranks the life of the mother at the lowest priority.
The fact that there are other problems in the world, is never a good enough reason not to seek improvements on any given one. It’s also not accurate to imply that this is the first time we are considering stuff like this. Just as an example, the State Dept generally warns LGBT travelers that they could face harassment when traveling to Poland.
anon
But that’s the thing – the states the ban abortion here also SAY they allow exceptions for live and health of the mother, but we can all agree that it’s a bit dicey to assume that won’t affect medical care. Are we seriously saying other countries are somehow different? When THEY say they allow the exceptions, we believe them?
I just sometimes am shocked at how much Americans look at Europe without noticing any of the problems – it’s a very rose colored glasses view (as someone who lived over there for almost a decade before returning to the states).
Anonymous
No one is saying there are no problems on this issue in Europe. But, excluding Poland, the overall trend is towards more access not less (e.g. Ireland). Boris Johnson issued a statement when Dobbs came out reaffirming the availability of choice in the UK.
anon
What anonymous at 11;19 says. Coming from someone who has lived in Europe three times longer. Ireland liberalized abortion in the last years. Germany just got rid of an outdated law about distributing abortion information on the same day as the SCOTUS ruling. Britain and France reacted with affirming choice. Europe and the world are moving in the opposite direction of the US.
Anon
I am an American living in Europe and I’m the one who made the note about France. So, I think your ‘shock’ is misplaced. It is different here. We don’t have evangelicals running around trying to turn back time.
Anonymous
Can we please not paint Finland with this brush – abortions are easily and legally available there. While technically you need two doctors to provide consent, it is routinely granted and getting an abortion if you want one isn’t an issue (though I appreciate that, by simply reading the law, you would not know this to be the case). The law is widely considered to be archaic and there is a big movement to bring it up to date.
Anon
I was going to say this. Abortions are legal and financially covered in Finland. It’s not a point of controversy or debate, it is a settled right like in the rest of the Nordic countries.
anonshmanon
ugh, comment is stuck because of the t-word. Somewhat related, the American Physical Society issued a policy a while back, to consider certain minimum standards of police training, conduct and public accountability for selecting cities to hold society meetings. This was done in order to protect researchers of color. I don’t see why this can’t or shouldn’t be done here.
It’s not about sticking it to someone, just about ensuring a larger talent pool by not doing things that endanger or alienate a large share of the workforce. It’s practical.
Anon
Give people more reasons not to hire or promote women. A man would work so much better at any job if any women act like this routinely.
anonshmanon
You are such a troll. Besides this being blatantly illegal, the economy would shrink dramatically if we pushed more women out of the workforce.
Anonymous
You seem to be operating under the delusion that they are looking for reasons. They don’t GAF about us or our bodies so stop coming for women who care about their own health and redirect some of that energy to the men who are causing the problem.
Aunt Jamesina
“If any women act like this”… you mean, demand that they not be sent to places that could jeopardize their life?
I said this above, but this is one of many reasons why avoiding states that have bans is important. Then employers don’t have to think about it.
Anne-on
I don’t think you understand how badly major companies need talent right now. If educated women start making a stink about this and telling FANGS/Big 4/Consulting/Multinationals this is a big deal for them they WILL make changes or vote with their feet.
anon
This may have been true six months ago, but isn’t anymore. Most of FAANG have selectively frozen hiring and/or are doing layoffs.
Anon
How do those boots taste, Anon at 11:10? Because that’s what you’re doing – licking the boots that are kicking you. Insisting that women should not speak up for their rights or advocate for themselves because oh no, some corporate mucky-muck might decide not to hire women because we’re being too loud and argumentative! Do you even realize how much of a problem that is? And that by saying this, you are absolutely making yourself part of that problem?
PolyD
That’s a really good point. I feel like I should have a word with my employer’s equity and diversity committee to see if the would consider that when planning meetings.
PolyD
I mean the comment at 10:55, ensuring that people of color will be treated fairly when traveling for a meeting.
anon
I would say, first of all, we’re talking specifically about pregnant women, not all women. And I say that for this reason – did your OBGYN not always tell you to avoid travel to certain places BEFORE this? Mine sure did.
It wasn’t about abortion at the time, but about the fact that in certain areas of the country, medical care is harder to access – rural, remote areas, for instance. Additionally, countries where food born illness was more common or medical care generally was substandard compared to US/EU care. And my OB didn’t want me traveling past 32 weeks (pretty standard from what I gather). Additionally, even before Roe, I knew there were certain countries in Europe I wouldn’t be comfortable visiting (Ireland, pre-2016, for instance).
I hate that Roe got overturned, but I think we can just add this to the list of things pregnant people will need to think about while traveling, but given that didn’t stop conferences from being hosted in Ireland pre-2016, I doubt it’ll change much now.
And honestly, I agree with the posted mentioning China – if your company does business in China and continues to, but tried to pull out of states with strict abortion laws, they’re hypocrites catering to people on this board, not actually trying to change anything.
Anonymous
That’s not what hypocrisy means. They can more care about their own employees and less about the employees of contractors in other countries. Is that awful? It’s clearly awful but it’s not inherently hypocritical.
We can’t let perfection be the enemy of action.
anon
You completely ignored my initial point.
But I’m talking about companies that operate offices in the Middle East and China, who suddenly criticize states with abortion bans and say they won’t do business there. Yes, it’s hypocritical.
I appreciated Disney’s critique of Don’t Say Gay in Florida, but then you realize that they edit out gay scenes from their movies for distribution in China, and I appreciate it a lot less.
Anon
Amen.
We do business where you can be put to death for all sorts of things but then people fuss about meeting in AZ or FLA and I’m all “do you not know where your $ comes from.” There is blood on it. Some people are so willfully blind.
I don’t go to China, although I’d love to experience it, b/c I’m pretty sure I’d be mouthing off from the moment I got off the plane and might easily find myself on the wrong side of the law with little to be done about it. Ditto Hong Kong.
OP
We’re talking about all women who may become pregnant. Generally you sign up for these conferences weeks or months in advance. You won’t know if you’ll be affected until after you’ve already committed to the cost of the trip. So then women have to choose – do I attend or cancel? What do I tell my employer about my reason for canceling? Will they reimburse my plane ticket etc even though I’m not going? Will I have to buy travel insurance or cancelable tix – which are not reimbursable – out of pocket?
WRT China etc, my OG question was about the ABA and similar professional organizations. AFAIK the AMERICAN Bar Association doesn’t hold conferences in China. My firm doesn’t have international offices and I’ve never been asked to travel internationally for work so idk what I would do or what the firm policy might be. But domestic travel is certainly common enough to warrant a firmwide policy rather than assessing on a case by case basis.
anon
I mean, I guess I don’t see this as all that different than existing travel restrictions while pregnant? When I had my first, I had to tell my employer sooner than I’d have liked since my OB didn’t want me traveling due to some complications. Not ideal, but my employer totally understood.
Anonymous
How are you planning to disclose your ectopic pregnancy that you don’t know is ectopic? Kind of hard to disclose issues you don’t know about. How are you planning to manage before you are ready to disclose to your employer? It’s not common to disclose during the first trimester which is when most miscarriages happen.
Anon
I will not travel to any states with abortion bans and would not attend a conference in such a state.
Anon
I guess you’re not going to Europe, either.
PolyD
People have explained over and over that 1) in most European countries, abortion is highly accessible for any reason until 14 weeks and 2) after 14 weeks, it is still a decision made by the woman and her doctor. There may be a few more small hoops, but to compare European abortion standards to the complete bans now in place in many US states, even for incest, even for rape, even when a woman’s life is in danger (got to make sure the fetus has no heartbeat before you save the woman) is completely disingenuous. You are either stirring up trouble or have some serious reading comprehension issues.
Anon
+1 I think this is the same person who keeps referring to this as a “15 week ban.” That’s completely wrong. Some states have e completely outlawed abortion after a heartbeat which is 5-6 weeks. The earliest you can possibly know you’re pregnant is 4 weeks and many women don’t get a positive home pregnancy test until 5 weeks. It’s effectively a complete ban and totally different than allowing abortion only in the first trimester. There’s nothing like the red state laws in Europe, with the exception of Malta.
Aunt Jamesina
Thank you for this comment, PolyD.
Anon
What states have banned abortion when the mother’s life is in danger? (Hint: ZERO. Nada. None. I have read the laws.)
Curious
I’m glad that the letter of the law makes you feel better. The rest of us find it improbable, based on historic evidence, that the interpretation of that law will be what you wish it would be.
Anon
1) Maybe not yet but the GOP is already publicly discussing it.
2) People have explained to you over and over again that even with an official exception the books, there’s a chilling effect and women will die while doctors discuss with lawyers what they can do. “Life of the mother” is vague and in red states will be interpreted to mean mother is bleeding out on the table and will die within minutes, maybe hours. It won’t apply to mother’s diagnosed with cancer who need an abortion to get chemo. It won’t apply to women who could die of an infection within a week. Pretty much every OBGYN in America is speaking out about how pregnant women (often with very wanted pregnancies) will die as a direct result of these laws. Unless you’re an OBGYN yourself, I don’t know why you think your opinion is more accurate than those of the actual medical experts who see these situations every day of their lives.
Anon
Malta is the only EU country that has fully banned abortion, and no I’m not particularly interested in going there. Certainly would not go while pregnant.
Anon
The difference is I choose when and where I vacation and can avoid places with bad abortion policy when I’m pregnant or TTC. I don’t choose when and where my work conferences are. If you’re organizing a conference, some of your attendees will surely be pregnant or trying to get pregnant at the time of the event and asking them to risk their life to attend a work event is unreasonable.
Anon
What if you work for Big 4 where you get sent all over on work assignments or serve in the military? This attitude could be career-ending in some fields.
Anonymous
The great thing is we don’t all have these jobs you hideous troll
Anon
A lot of us do though.
Anon
Then you need to accept that you’re making a choice to prioritize money and your career over your safety and your bodily autonomy. It really is that simple. Hope that works out for ya!
Anonymous
Military bases are not governed by state laws. The availability of care on a military base will not be impacted by the state in which they sit. For example, DH and I routinely buy alcohol at our NEX on Sunday morning even though alcohol cannot be sold before noon on Sunday in our state.
Anon
Not all health care is done on bases or by military doctors.
anon
So generally military bases themselves cannot provide elective abortions. This has been an issue for a long time given our presence in places like South Korea, which only decriminalized abortion last year.
Typically service members have to use their leave to travel to obtain an abortion elsewhere. I’d expect that’ll be similar for domestic stationed service members going forward.
Anonymous
It’s not an “attitude.” It is literally about self-preservation.
Aunt Jamesina
Which is why employers need to do this, so that nobody is put in this position.
Anon
yes, exactly. Individual employees don’t have power but corporations do.
Nesprin
I am privileged enough to work a job where I can make decisions about where to hold conferences and make a stink about being sent to a conference in a state hostile to women’s reproductive care. And with that power comes the responsibility to do what I can to protect people who don’t have that privilege.
So yes, I think that limiting where my conference dollars go to states which are not hostile to the healthcare of half the populous is an important thing to do.
Anon
+1 there are at least 10 conferences per year I can choose from to get my continuing ed as an actuary. I will choose those in venues that value a woman’s right to choose. Many, many women will do the same. In fact, we had a very well attended zoom on this topic yesterday. It’s the least we can do.
Anon
thank you for using your privilege for good!
Anonymous
The Secretary of Defense put out a statement after the decision that they are evaluating their policies in response, so they’re aware of the issue and at least considering options.
Lord help me....
And yet, some of you will travel – pregnant or not – to places with questionable healthcare period. What if you’re on a safari and suffer a heart attack or aneurism? Where do you think you’re going to get appropriate healthcare close by to save your life?
Seriously, some of you need to get a grip. Doctors are not going to stand around and let you die because you’re pregnant and in a state that doesn’t allow abortions.
For a site intended for supposedly smart women, it sure as hell is hard to find any around here. But hype, histrionics, and hysteria? This place has it in spades.
Curious
I think multiple people have shared both data and anecdata that disproves this opinion. The fact that you are calling it hysterical does not make them hysterical.
Anon
Do you know anything about this? I don’t even feel safe at a Catholic hospital because of the cases of care being delayed while the hospital tried to decide if the bioethicists would sign off on a life saving abortive procedure. It’s just as bad to me if people die while a hospital’s legal team talks over liabilities.
roxie
The lord does need to help you because you are wildly wrong. Literally 5 seconds of googling will show you this.
I’m sorry you’re a pawn for the antiabortion industry; I hope you don’t have children subject to your abysmal beliefs.
Anonymous
Yes – tons of pregnant women regularly go on safari without first checking to see what high level medical care is available nearby. SUPER common!
Anon
I definitely consider available healthcare while making traveling decisions! No I wouldn’t go on safari using a company that didn’t have an adequate medivac procedure.
Anonymous
Actually I don’t travel to places with questionable heath care in general, or places where you can get falsely accused of drug trafficking and executed, or …
Anon
Many OBGYNs are speaking out publicly saying women will die as a direct result of these laws. They see these situations every day and they understand what they will be able to do and not do under laws that restrict abortion to circumstances where the mother’s life is not in danger. Why do you not trust these experts?
I think it’s naive to act like no one considers healthcare standards when traveling. Tons of people do. I chose South Africa for safari because of better healthcare access and even so I would not have traveled there while pregnant. I also would not have gone to any country that heavily restricts abortion access while pregnant. Most women spend a cumulative 1.5-3 years of their life pregnant at most. It’s not that hard to temporarily refrain from traveling to places that could be dangerous to you, and many women I know did. Unfortunately half the US is now going to be on that list too.
Anon
LOL. We’re so dumb and need to “get a grip” and yet…here you are, hanging out with us? Make that make sense.
It’s so, so, so fascinating to watch you slowly come to grips with the ultimate consequences of what you likely supported and advocated for with the overturning of Roe vs. Wade. This is what many people tried to get the forced-birthers to see for years: that there would be multiple unintended consequences, some of which we couldn’t even foresee, to banning abortion. Those consequences would absolutely affect rich white women as well as poor brown and black women, despite rich white women feeling that they were insulated from the problem. People have posted multiple stories, multiple links with evidence of exactly what we are saying – that women in crisis sometimes cannot get necessary healthcare in places where abortion is banned – and here you are with your fingers in your ears, shouting “LALALALALALALA!! I can’t hear you!” The denial is REAL. But denial or no, you are affected by this too. If anyone deserves to experience the worst, most awful, most unintended consequences of Dobbs, it’s people who gleefully advocated for overturning Roe without considering how it would affect anyone but them. If that’s you…well…
PolyD
This is a really good point. I imagine there are a lot of women out there who didn’t think the loss of Roe would apply to them (I am diligent about birth control; surely there will be exceptions for me because I will have a good reason to have an abortion; I can just travel somewhere else) and are struggling mightily to justify their previous indifference.
Bonnie Kate
I’m not sure how you navigate this, but I understand and empathize with the idea to do so. I think your best bet would be to get a big company who normally participates in the conference to pull out, siting the location/ban as to why. I’m not in big-firm life, so not sure how realistic this is, but if your company is doing lip service right now to “standing with women” – asking them to opt out of conferences entirely (no men or women participates) if the conferences are being held in abortion-ban states would be something solid you could ask for. If a big company pulls out of conference, that is definitely going to get the organizers attention.
Also, just as a personal aside, I’m firmly childfree so now looking into tubal ligation and have no plans to become or remain pregnant so feel a little less at personal risk for a week in a ban state; I still don’t want to go to those states that are actively taking away my freedom to choose what I do with my body. Women have less rights in these states now than they did last Thursday. That is not okay, and enough reason for me to not want to go to them.
Coach Laura
I’m late to this thread, but this is already happened. Happened at 11:30pm on Friday. Read the description in the IG of Dr. Pooja Lakshmin @poojalakshmin – doctor who relates a story of a woman with an ectopic pregnancy who had to wait while the doctor and the hospital’s lawyer reviewed – for NINE HOURS. She had 600cc of blood in her abdomen, her fallopian tube ruptured and she almost died. Ludicrous, really, but reality. It could absolutely happen to someone at a conference who didn’t even know that she was pregnant.
Anonymous
This is what I’m worried about. Treatment for ectopic pregnancy will mean removing the fallopian tube after it ruptures and anything else will be refused because maybe the pregnancy will magically move to the uterus.
Anonymous
When I had an ectopic pregnancy, doctors in NC saved my right ovary with rapid treatment. I had 2 rounds of methotrexate, administered in the hospital because I had significant internal and external bleeding. It literally was a minute by minute hour by hour situation of whether they could save my ovary or I’d need to have it removed. My husband kept calling my mom, both terrified.
I read TX pharmacists have already refused to dispense methotrexate (the fact phamacists can refuse to dispense a doctor’s prescription is also a problem). There’s a chilling effect…no one wants to lose their license or get sued.
I’m terrified women in my situation may lose their ovary and thus future fertility, denied access to the same care I received.
Anonymous
I had an ectopic pregnancy medical emergency for a very much wanted pregnancy shortly after I married. I was happily pregnant for about a month before it happened. I needed ER treatment to save my ovary and potentially my life.
That could have happened anywhere. I wouldn’t want to be pregnant and travel somewhere knowing I can’t access care in an emergency.
It was hard enough for my husband and I to go through the rollercoaster of emotions- yes, we’re pregnant!! To we’re not pregnant, and what’s worse, I could become sterile or die. I can’t imagine having to board a flight while bleeding and in pain to return home and access care.
I received dilaudid IV, which is a strong opioid, during my treatment. It caused a LOT of pain to receive that. I also had heavy bleeding and needed to be monitored due to internal bleeding that could have killed me.
Not a situation where you can strap on some period panties and pop tylenol for a plane flight. States with trigger laws are NOT safe if you’re pregnant and something goes wrong.
M2020
But most cities under 50,000 people haven’t had access to surgeons skilled in things like etopic pregnancies and complicated d&c’s for decades. Plus many cities only have a catholic hospital. If your travel only includes large cities that is one thing but it’s sad if you never visit any city under 50k people.
M2020
Sorry this posted under the wrong comment. But the world has been dangerous for pregnant women for a long time.
Anon
“While pregnant” =/= “never”
Anon
Right!? Pregnancy is such a short time, relatively speaking. Being cautious about where you travel while pregnant doesn’t mean you never go anywhere. Also my city is 50k people and has both a Catholic hospital and a public secular hospital. There are definitely many doctors able to perform D&Cs at the secular hospital (not sure about the Catholic one, I’ve never used it). You’re painting smaller cities with a very broad brush.
M2020
The solution is not to avoid these states. The ONLY ACTUAL solution is for people to move to these states and VOTE and organize people to VOTE. I moved back to Cleveland and we are trying our darnedest. I am so frustrated by people who left Cleveland and live on the coasts acting like they are found everything they can by protesting in NYC. We know how to make a difference and it’s not moving all the jobs and educated people to HCOL cities and acting like they still care. – RustBeltTillIDie
Bonnie Kate
This is a very late reply, but YES YES YES. I’m in a red county in Wisconsin and truly believe that this is my cause – fighting shiny kind but outspoken blue dot. If we don’t exist, it becomes an even bigger echo chamber and the moderates who may be inclined to go blue will end up red.
Anonymous
Thank you!
Anonymous
Adding a late reply. We moved conference locations to avoid Zika exposure.
Anon
+1 My old law firm moved an event out of south Florida because of Zika concerns in 2015ish.
Anon
I’m trying to channel my best EU president today.
Jacket – check
Elevated tee instead of shell — check
Black pants — check
What do we think she wears for shoes? I’m on #TeamRothysandOtherFlats, but mine are worn 2019 puppies that could stand a refresh, but with what? Or maybe she wears chunky-heel 1″-2″ pumps that are sensible and comfy and well-broken in but shined to a polish? I feel like Clarice in Silence of the Lambs with my poor shoe game.
Anonymous
Only you are obsessed with her.
pugsnbourbon
Who peed in your cheerios this morning?
Anon
+1
I would actually more discussions or features of visible successful women and how they dress (if it’s within reach/not anomalous because of their fame).
Ribena
Agree! I found Call My Agent really great for work style inspiration as well as being great tv
Anon
Yes. I brought a picture of Lael Brainerd to my hair person years ago but I never see full-length pictures of her. I just listen to NPR and read the WSJ, so I am likely missing many good people. I never see adults dressing for adult jobs any more — just athleisure and zoom-OK looks likely just above the waist. Cameras are often off. I just need a go-by and it’s nice to stumble upon one like this.
Anon
I love that Lael Brainard has long hair and wears a thumb ring.
Formerly Lilly
Oh me too! Especially visible and successful women who dress in a fairly ordinary and attainable manner.
Aunt Jamesina
Why are you critiquing somebody wanting to discuss professional fashion on a blog about that very topic?
PolyD
I doubt an EU president would wear plastic shoes.
Low, thicker heels are more stable. Leather (polished! ) is key. I would go for a slightly pointed toe (round toe shoes, including most ballet flats, look way too childish) and whatever style of shoe stays on your feet and lets you walk comfortably. Be careful with socks, too, do not wear cutesy colorful or “fun” socks. Ideally you would match your pants and shoes, or wear no-show socks, or wear knee high nylons that EXACTLY match your skin and don’t wrinkle or bag (so essentially, they are invisible).
PolyD
Oh, another key thing – whatever shoes you wear, make sure your pants are appropriately hemmed for them. I don’t really know what the style is now, but pants should not drag on the ground and trouser-style pants should probably still break across the top or middle of the foot.
Anon
You’re being kind of weird with your obsession with her. But IMO Rothys are ugly and not professional enough.
Anon
Not OP but there is nothing wrong with wanting to emulate a professional style icon, and especially nothing wrong with discussing it on a blog about how to dress professionally as a woman.
Anon
I, for one, am all about having this conversation. It’s exactly what this place is for. Anonymous definitely needs to get a life.
If you do a google image search, she definitely has a uniform! I can appreciate that. I only found one picture that shows her feet and it looks like she is wearing very sensible heels with socks. https://www.brookings.edu/techstream/an-agenda-for-us-eu-cooperation-on-big-tech-regulation/
Anon
Can the OP clarify who she’s referencing? Ursula looks a bit frumpy to me but Roberta Metsola looks like there’s more style going on.
Anon
Yesterday: woman with 7 kids
Today: woman with 4 kids who has pulled off a brunette-to-blond transition, which I feel is very varsity-level to do well
Not feeling insecure at all . . .
Anon
Ursula is 63 and Robera Metsola is 43. I suspect that (consciously or not) when you say “frumpy” here you mean “older”. I am raising this because half the time when people on this Board say “frumpy” that is exactly what they mean.
I am right in between their ages but find Madam von der Leyden to be a much more appropriate look for my age and (work) position.
Anon
I agree. Frumpy is a code word for old and/or overweight. Let’s do better.
Anon
Try again, I’m 59. I think the little blouses under jackets are frumpy. It’s not code for age, it’s a fashion description. If OP is trying to look sharp, I’d look for inspiration elsewhere.
PolyD
Yes, I personally know some thin, not real old (is 40s old?) frumpy women. Frump transcends all demographics.
Trish
Frumpy has to do with wearing clothes that don’t fit or they are out of style and matronly and hair that just hangs. There are overweight and older fashion icons.
Anon
Probably Ferragamo Vara or Varina
Anonymous
Found one picture of her shoes: low heeled pumps in a color matching her trousers.
https://indianexpress.com/article/india/ukraine-war-impact-indo-pacific-relation-eu-chief-ursula-von-der-leyen-modi-meet-7887335/
Anonymous
She would certainly not be wearing Rothys. Leather shoes (pumps) with a short heel (an inch) or maybe two-tone Chanel ballerinas. Sensible and anonymous leather.
If she had any “gimmicky» shoes, we would know, like with Theresa May’s heels.
Anonymous
My boyfriend told me he can be conflict avoidant and that his failing to bring up and address important relationship issues was a major reason his marriage failed. After getting divorced he went to therapy to work on it, but he says this has always been hard for him in friendships and relationships.
Wondering if anyone has tips from experience on making it easier to have big/potentially stressful conversations when needed. I’m sure he’d participate gamely in any conversation I initiated about something important to me, but I also want him to be comfortable telling me if he thinks something is wrong or should be discussed. Things feel great between us and we haven’t yet had so much as a disagreement, but now I’m slightly questioning if it’s because we’re such well-matched, reasonable people or because he has buried his concerns instead of bringing them up. He seems okay asking for small needs (like asking to switch our plans because he’s tired after work instead of just going to an event while exhausted).
FWIW he grew up with a family that liked to sweep problems under the rug and pretend everything was fine (as did I, really).
Anonymous
Ask him. Dear god ladies we need to be better. It is not your job to solve this for him.
Anonymous
Not implying it is my job. I have talked about it with him but am also asking about other people’s experiences.
I understand getting rude/frustrated anonymous responses is the price we pay for asking for advice here, but it sucks.
Anon
Seriously. I just counseled a friend through something similar this morning and I am exhausted for this poster, my friend, and yesterday’s poster.
Don’t guess. Don’t ask internet strangers. As your boyfriend.
But also, don’t invent problems like second guessing compatibility bc he was vulnerable and shared something meaningful with you.
Anon
Seriously. There are other men out there. A lot of other men. Why on earth would you settle for someone who’s marriage failed because of this issues and hasn’t bothered to actually make a real change to fix it. You can do better than this. It’s not on you to fix. There’s not a book to read or magic words to say. Respect yourself and your life and find someone else.
Anon
I agree with this in principle, but the boyfriend above is in therapy for the issue! I didn’t see an indication in the post that he’s continuing the behavior or if OP wi only worried that he will.
It feels like OPiw looking for a solution without a problem right now. I’d tell him I appreciate his honestly and vulnerability and that I hope he feels safe expressing disagreement with me. Then watch for signs he’s not doing that and decide what to do if that happens.
Anon
Yes to the solution for a not problem. He was vulnerable and disclosed something that was probably hard for him and now she is inventing that they may be incompatible even though nothing else has changed!
OP
Yup, I think you are both 100% right that it is not an active problem, just that I’m worried it might be a problem and I don’t know because he’s not saying it’s a problem. It sounds silly now that I am typing it out.
OP
SMH at the idea that I should dump my boyfriend for telling me he had an issue that he is working through that isn’t even causing problems in our relationship (people who have said I’m looking for a solution for something that isn’t a problem yet are probably correct).
From this point forward I am ignoring it and focusing my energy on the genuinely helpful practical comments below, but uggh.
Anon
Girl, shake that head away, but I spent way too much time justifying my ex’s issues and it kept me in bad relationships far too long. If you’re at the point of posting about him, that’s likely your instinct screaming something is wrong. Listen to it.
Anon
Also? Great relationships are easy and don’t require active management tactics. Not saying you can’t love someone or be with someone where you need to employ them, but it really doesn’t need to be that hard.
Anonymous
Since you’ve had conversations about this in general, I’m assuming you’ve expressed this concern to him and he said something reassuring? And now you’re wondering if you can really trust that? I mean, either you take him at his word or you don’t. Only time will tell. Maybe he’s the type that will bottle everything up until he explodes. Or maybe he’s truly an easygoing person who just isn’t bothered by much. I would caution you against approaching this relationship like you’re waiting for the other shoe to drop. Be aware of this potential yellow flag, sure, but keep it in the back of your mind unless it becomes an issue.
OP
Yes, thanks, all this makes sense/resonates.
Clara
I hate to bring up stressful topics but would do much better if I could text at least the setup to my boyfriend/other family members, would you be open to that? I want to get it out the right way, and want them to have their initial reaction before I see and talk to them about it (shortly after).
OP
Thanks, I’m definitely better at phrasing things in writing myself so it makes sense that this could be something to try.
Anonjd
My partner is very conflict-avoidant (and I have those tendencies as well). Some things that have worked for us (together for 14 years, happily married for 10):
– when he does bring something up, I give it my full attention, listen carefully, and clarify any points that are confusing to me. In other words, I try to be an optimal communication partner.
– when we are going through a rough patch (he really struggled when our kids were babies), we’d schedule a regular time to bring up things that were bugging us. We did it twice a month on Sunday evenings. This takes some of the emotion out of it so that we can focus on solving the problem, not nagging at each other.
– we don’t bring up past grievances. Fix the problem in the present. If it can’t be fixed, acknowledge the other person’s legitimate position, and agree to table it.
– if something seems off with him, offer a nonjudgmental observation to open a conversation: “hey, I’m sensing some tension. Is there anything you want to talk about?”
Anonymous
DH and I do a biweekly ‘status check in’ kind of meeting. It started because with 3 kids life is busy and it’s hard to find time to talk about travel, renos, whatever and we wanted to keep our ‘life maintenance’ stuff away from our date nights on Saturdays. We do every second Wednesday at 9pm for an hour. Sometimes there’s nothing to talk about and we just fool around, sometimes we each have a list of short updates and sometimes we have to hash out a bigger issue like budget/options of a new car purchase.
Anon
My husband and I can both be conflict avoidant. We have great conversations about the state of our relationship in the car (because it’s easier to talk without intense eye contact) or on date nights when we have a drink or two, which helps us loosen up enough to tackle the big stuff. Scheduling time to talk about the state of the marriage helps too. And therapy. (We’ve done both couples and individual in the past)
OP
Thanks to you and others so far, appreciate the advice. A lot of these suggestions will be useful, I think, especially around setting regular checkins or having a drink. :)
Cat
+1000 to bringing up things to talk through while you’re side by side rather than face to face. DH and I have our best conversations – whether over something that’s a complete first world problem like where to to on vacation, or big decisions like buying a house – when taking long walks together.
anon
Are you dating my ex-husband????
In all seriousness, no solutions and this was a huge issue for us. He kept very important things from me so as to “not disappoint” me – it wasn’t just about not telling me that he’d rather go to Mexico instead of Scotland for vacation. Once burned, twice shy, I could never again be with a partner that wasn’t loud and open about things, for better and worse.
Anonymous
Haha, I’m sure that coincidence has happened in the history of this s*te. If you got divorced 10 years ago, maybe!
That sucks, I’m sorry. On the unlikely chance that he is the same dude, I can say he really learned from and was affected by the process of having to get divorced over issues that could have been overcome if not for years of not addressing them…but it doesn’t mean he is a completely different person now with none of those impulses, etiher.
roxie
god 80% of this board is women asking for help making their men better.
My kingdom for a similar board that men go to to try to “fix” their partners. Jesus. Why are women still doing this.
Anne-on
Does anyone have any suggestions of organizations that help pair women with resources/advice for obtaining abortions/plan B/birth control? I’ve been a long time Planned Parenthood donor but with their clinics no longer able to offer those services in many red states I’d like to get more involved (mostly money but time as well) with organizations who help with counseling/transport/making obtaining plan B and other medications more accessible in underserved locations. I’m in MA so this would mostly be remote volunteering or money – as another poster in CA said, in our state I’m preaching to the choir and I already volunteer with local candidates and vote in mid-terms.
Anon
Yes. Note everywhere is getting a huge influx of volunteers so you may not here back for awhile but donations are needed. A few ideas:
-look for your local abortion fund or “practical support” group. They will aid people getting abortions in your state and need things like drivers, people to do childcare, etc.
-Partners in Abortion Care is opening a new clinic in Maryland that will provide abortions in any trimester and serve people coming from SE states where abortion is illegal or unavailable. Great article about them in Washington Post recently. They have a Go FundMe.
-Brigid Alliance and Apiary also coordinate practical support
-If/When/How is a marvelous legal org that has a hotline and provides technical assistance and advice on criminalization of reproductive health and pregnancy.
Texas Anon
Not sure this is what you’re looking for, but as a Texan, I donate to Fund Texas Choice. They provide financial support for Texas women traveling to seek abortions in other states.
Anon
My state has an organization like this called Arkansas Abortion Support Network. They are raising funds to help women obtain abortions in other states (it’s now illegal in all states bordering mine). Huge shout out to them!
Anon
I think people need to check their weight. Plan B works if you are 160 pounds, but I am forgetting what it is. Gotta read the fine print, always.
Sunflower
Lilith Fund in Texas.
KS IT Chick
Kansas Abortion Fund. There are about 80 different, similar groups across the US.
If the grocery store you regularly shop in has a community rewards program, many of these funds are available as potential recipients. I just added my local fund to my Kroger-owned store last night. Based upon our usual shopping habits, they will get about $5 per month from it. Last year, they estimated that they got about $20K per month from the program, and they expect that to rise.
Coach Laura
I was just coming here to ask that. I think Plan B is key, and getting it to people in Red states is important. I know there might be legal issues with a charity sending it to a person in a state where Plan B is illegal. And there might be blow-back/legal trouble for the person using Plan B in a red state. AG Garland has stated that states can’t object to Plan B on its medical merits/safety, but we know they will anyway.
I posted above about the Instagram of Dr. Pooja Lakshmin (IG is poojalakshmin). Two women doctors I follow are an OB/GYN pagingdrfran and her sister svikkimd who both have had tons of stories about, for example, how to get your tubes tied and help going “camping” in a different state, if “camping” is illegal where the woman is. My daughter posted on instagram that she has an empty but furnished apartment in Seattle where her friends can stay and she’ll help any way she can. Having worked and gone to school in the south, it’s possible someone will take her up on the offer.
My daughter is an RN and right now is working on the border of Washington and Idaho. Her Washington town has already seen a >50% increase in Idahoans seeking help. My daughter and I plan to volunteer in the future if we are in a state where women might go to seek treatment. https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2022/mar/21/idaho-could-make-getting-an-abortion-harder-and-wa/
Anon
My sister has Asperger’s. She was in a dorm at State U as a freshman last year and in a sober-living floor (she isn’t needing that personally, but they had spots and she wanted a quiet non-party atmosphere, so it was a very good fit). Her roommate situation feel through and she is now looking for housing in a studio at off campus apartments. She is a asked a few questions here and there re atmosphere in the student-focused apartments and got a lot of hostile brush-offs due to fair housing not letting them disclose. She now things everywhere will be a noisy frat house and worries about signing a lease anywhere. I get her concerns. Any advice for sussing out spots that will fit her needs? No party-hearty neighbor would want her next door (she is great, but can get very worked up, especially when she doesn’t sleep and sees a right to quiet enjoyment that is a bit at odds with many of her peers — how can she find the quiet student off-campus housing)?
Anon
She can check reviews online (social media accounts sometimes contain frank discussion of neighborhoods; apartment ratings sites may comment on the culture). She can do a drive-by or similar on a Friday or Saturday night (or Saturday or Sunday morning) to observe whether there are a lot of loud parties happening, recycling bins piles high with beer bottles, etc.
Sometimes the apartments that grad students choose are quieter (at my State U, the apartments most convenient to the med school were full of studious med school students, for one example).
Anon
I’d move slightly away from campus, and avoid any place that is specifically advertising as “student housing.” Maybe post the U or city for more specific neighborhood input. But, unfortunately, even non-student neighbors may pose a problem–that’s just the nature of renting IMO.
Anon
Yes, she will have to accept that renting an apartment in a city means occasional noise, parties, etc.
Anon
She needs to look at apartments that aren’t marketed toward students. See where everyone else is living, then avoid those places. That probably means living farther from campus and maybe paying more, though not always- I live in a college town and lots of student oriented housing is much nicer or much more than expensive than normal person apartments because the rent is split between more people and subsidized by parents.
Anoneighmys
This is good advice. I’m in a city with 2 state universities and a huge community college and all this holds true. If her university has a med school, suggest looking for a studio near the it (ie, where those students live). It’ll be next to campus, but the people who live there are grad students and don’t have time for loud parties. It seems to hold true at the uni I work at, though the med school is fairly close to the stadium, so game days are a little hectic – more traffic than parties, but still annoying.
Anon
I’m the poster at 10:20 and just wanted to add one note of caution on what I suggested. How easy it is to move into nonstudent apartments will depend a lot on the strength of the local housing market. Where I live, pretty much everyone requires a monthly income of 3x the rent, and lots of places try to keep students out by not allowing co-signers. That can actually make it pretty hard to find housing, and combined with a tight housing market, we’ve had lots of students living in their cars or commuting from more than an hour away. It can also be helpful to look for people who rent out rooms or ADUs to students – they usually post on some kind of university listserv or are found on Craigslist or by word of mouth, so it’s definitely worth talking to people and getting word out that you’re looking.
Anonymous
Does her city have any homeshare programs? At one point our local university matched seniors looking to rent a room in their homes with university students who were comfortable with non-traditional housing arrangements.
Aunt Jamesina
Are there any single rooms in her current dorm setup? I feel like finding an apartment in a college town that’s both affordable for students and doesn’t have any partying is a tall order.
Sasha
See if you can suss out where the grad students live. Those dorms and micro-neighborhoods tend to be much, much quieter than where the undergrads are concentrated.
anon
For those in blue states wondering what they can do, I have some suggestions to consider. Note I’m in Texas and not giving up on the south, so a lot of my examples are organizations or candidates based here. Please chime in and provide names of other organizations and candidates in other states that could use funds and volunteer time to drive change.
Donate to campaigns in other states: Example – Beto for Texas, Stacy Abrams for Georgia. There are others, pick a race and give the candidate a monthly donation (doesn’t have to be large). If big decisions are being pushed to the states than it’s imperative we work the long game starting now to put governors and other state leaders in place that won’t fall in line to GOP fascism, racism, sedition, theocracy, etc. If you know of other races list them in the comments.
Support organizations that are pushing for voting rights: Fair Fight Action, march to the polls, UCLA, Common Cause, and many more.
Call your rep and encourage them to do what it takes to codify ‘Roe’ into law. If Nancy Pelosi is to be believed now is the time to apply pressure on the Senate to do something. Call your rep and demand they give you a plan on how they are going to respond or enact legislation that protects women’s rights, infant and children health, drives down maternal mortality rates, etc. You can call a republican rep and ask them what they plan to do to support the upcoming surge in the domestic supply of infants (UGH) and what policies they as staunch pro lifers are going to put in place to support this vulnerable population. Yes eye roll on the pro life label.
Stop referring to the ‘pro life’ crowd as that. Do not acquiesce to their deceptive labeling as it gives them more power and something to hide behind. Anti choice, forced birthers, etc. Turn the tables and put them on their heels by refusing to accept their language and false labels.
Support Indivisible dot org, and their various targeted efforts including give no ground for the midterms, gun legislation, and other initiatives that are pushing for progress across the country.
Support Annie’s List, Women Organizing Women Democrats, which help get more women candidates running for office and educates voters on candidates.
Read ‘On Tyranny’. It’s short and impactful. Bookshop dot org has a list Reading List for a Post Roe America. Pick a book and start a book club with your friends.
Talk to your friends and family and ensure they are ready to vote in November, hopefully for sane, progressive candidates.
Support abortion, reproductive, and human rights organizations everywhere whether through shopping their sites, or donating directly.
Another ‘rette mentioned yesterday that you can petition and otherwise engage with your municipal and local elected reps accountable. Push to them to pass CPC bans or regulations on ‘crises pregnancy centers’ so these centers have to declare they aren’t licensed or able to provide actual health care.
Get educated on the state of the child protective service/foster care system in your state. Call your state officials and push for improvements and changes that will benefit the kids. Become a CASA volunteer.
There’s much more, I’m sure. What other ideas do people have?
Anon
Thanks for this! I’m in a blue state bordering a red state and am going to talk to our Planned Parenthood to see if we can provide rides / housing support for people coming from red state for services.
Anon
Try googling abortion practical support + your city/state name. That’s the term for providing rides etc to help
You find the right group
Anonymous
I’m in Texas and I would love a script for calling my Senator and representatives about this issue when so many of them are on the crazy right!
Texas Anon
I just posted this on another thread, but copy/pasting here since it’s relevant: As a Texan, I donate to Fund Texas Choice. They provide financial support for Texas women traveling to seek abortions in other states.
Anon
Same here! For those interested in helping specific state funds, the one for Arkansas is the Arkansas Abortion Support Network and they’re doing excellent work.
Anon
“Push to them to pass CPC bans”
Please do this. I live to litigate on behalf of sidewalk counselors and CPCs.
Or don’t, because the fact that they are being firebombed is bad enough.
Anon
You’ll get hate for this comment but when I had an unplanned pregnancy, a CPC was the only place that really helped me . Planned Parenthood just factually explained options and left it at that. The CPC was the first place that helped me imagine a world where I kept my baby and connected me to an org that supported me during my pregnancy and until my kid was 2. I’m sure some of them aren’t great, but I needed someone in my corner and they were there. So thank you.
Bonnie Kate
I’m pro-choice and don’t mind that the good ones exist, like the one it sounds you used. I do very much oppose the “sidewalk counselors” that stand outside of Planned Parenthoods with protestors, and CPCs that have practices such as setting up shop right next door to Planned Parenthoods, taking appointments and not disclosing all options (including termination), or postponing appointments until after abortion is no longer an option. Those are predatory practices that are not unconditionally supportive of a woman, but completely disrespectful and based on the belief that CPC’s and sidewalk counselors know better than the women themselves what is best.
pugsnbourbon
LOL you litigate on behalf of sidewalk “counselors?”
I’ve got footage of a bunch of ’em with their belt mics screaming “mommy, mommy, don’t kill me mommy” and playing crying baby sounds. And marching across the driveway holding a giant homemade cross. Fully blocking the driveway trying to hand out their “literature.” Shoving a cell phone in my face and putting me on their FB live channel, asking their followers if anyone recognizes me. Yelling at the women walking inside that “you’re still a mother, you’re just a mother to a dead baby.” Really great people you’re defending there.
Anon
I don’t know that this poster does specifically, but sometimes this kind of thing happens in First Amendment litigation. There are famous SCOTUS cases where lawyers were defending Neo Nazi’s rights to speech in order to protect everyone’s right to free speech. See also criminal defense lawyers who defend people who actually committed awful crimes in order to make sure the state stays accountable to its burden to protect other areas of the Constitution.
I’m absolutely not defending CPCs and I wish they didn’t exist (unless they’re actually helpful), but the ACLU and other very liberal organizations sometimes take cases for pretty terrible organizations/people to defend Constitutional principles.
PolyD
This is a good list. Especially give money to races in other states. I’m in a solidly blue area and my reps don’t need more money, it’s better if I throw some to close races in Texas or Georgia or wherever. And it’s not “cheating” – whoever Texas or Georgia sends to Congress is going to have a huge impact on my life, so it’s only fair that I can have some impact on who they send.
KS IT Chick
Please add Laura Kelly in Kansas to your potential places to donate. She is heading into a tough re-election fight as an incumbent Democratic governor in a red state against a protege of Sam Brownback and Donald Trump. She is a former teacher and social worker who is married to a retired physician. She has worked hard against incredible opposition to safeguard health and safety, while rebuilding our tax base, educational system and government after the Republican attempt to dismantle it.
Also, Sharice Davids. She was elected to the US House at the same time as Deb Haaland, making them the first Native American women to serve in that body. She has been gerrymandered from a competitive district to one overwhelmingly Republican. She has been a stalwart activist for workers and for women in the House.
Anonymous
Warnock for GA (US Senate) is also a good choice. We have to protect the Senate and a brainless, washed-up football star who will do whatever the GOP tells him to do is the opposition.
anon
I hate to ask this- I’m also in Texas. Can someone please post a script that I can use to call my senators/reps? It’s been on my list these last couple of days but am just so jammed. Help me take some of the friction out of the system?
Anon
I know that it’s been asked before, but any suggestions on a wedding gift for the couple who has everything? My law school BFF is getting married next month and I sadly have to miss the wedding because of a pre planned vacation. I want to get her something meaningful for her special day. Budget up to $500. She loves art, animals, doesn’t drink. Please help!
Anonymous
Can’t be bothered to look it up but I feel like there is an elephant santucary that raises money by selling paintings done by the elephants? I wouldn’t buy something large but a smallish one and a paint night date night type gift certificate might work?
Anon
Don’t get a painting done by an elephant for an animal lover. It’s gross and demeaning to train an elephant to do something like painting for human’s entertainment (yes, not as bad as the circus or something like that, but still something many elephant lovers would find off-putting). There are many ways to support animal charities that don’t involve the animals performing for humans.
Anonymous
In this case, I’ve often given restaurant gift cards to a couple’s favorite place or a fancy restaurant in their town with a note for them to “continue the celebration.” If that’s not their scene, then maybe tickets for an experience in their area (sporting event tickets, concert tickets).
Anon
I personally love the restaurant idea, especially with a $500 budget because they could go somewhere really special and it’s not date specific. I like the idea of an event, but I don’t know how you practically do that – I’ve never seen sports or concert tickets that you can get for any old time and coordinating someone else’s calendar sounds hard.
Anokha
I love the restaurant idea too. I have done that for multiple friends who have it all :)
Anon
+1 This is a great idea that’s more personal than cash and better than buying some trinket or piece of art that they may or may not like.
Anon
+3 for a restaurant gift card. A friend with a similar budget got us a meal at a three Michelin star restaurant in SF and it was amazing. We liked fine dining but had never had that kind of meal and it was such a treat. (Although be sure the gift card covers everything except tip – we still had to pay $100 (excluding tip) as I recall, which wasn’t a big hardship for us but might be for some people.)
Anonymous
Did they register?
Anon
No registry, this was kind of last minute and it’s mostly family and a few close friends.
BB
Custom ceramics with their monogram (although make sure you ask what initials they prefer). Especially good if you have some sense of her art taste.
Anonymous
Skip their monogram, but I love the idea of some kind of hand-made ceramics if that’s their style. I have a beautiful salad bowl by a local artisan that I use like 5 times a week.
pugsnbourbon
+1. Go to your fanciest local artisan store and pick something out.
Anon
I love a monogram. Best wedding gift I got was two Leontine Linens pillow shams with my initials on one and my husband’s on the other (I didn’t change my name, so no house monogram). It’s a very specific style though, and definitely a know your friend kind of gift.
Aunt Jamesina
Yeah, monograms can be lovely but they’re totally not my style and I wouldn’t be into it (plus neither of us changed our last names).
People really need to get in the habit of checking to see what the married couples is choosing to do about names if they want to do anything personalized.
BB
Yes, hence my parenthetical above. I think when I did this many years ago, I asked and the bride chose to have just their first name initials together.
Anon
Fancy cheese board (can never have too many!) and gift certificate to a local high end cheese shop. Nice large wood salad bowl and serving utensils. Disagree with the ceramics suggestion – we were given a couple pieces and they were never used and donated a few years later. But I think all that tells you is that you’ll know better than us what they prefer! I’m sure other couples would hate a cheese board but love ceramics. Is there anything they might want an upgrade of, like a coffee machine, blender etc? Simon Pearce vase or candlesticks are also very well received in my crowd.
Anonymous
I vote no on the fancy cheese board. We get at least one of those every Christmas. So many cheese boards. Don’t buy household goods if they haven’t registered for it. Stick with consumables or experiences.
Reservation for their 6 month/1 year anniversary at a fancy restaurant that books out way in advance? Gift certificate to cover the meal.
Digby
Since they have everything, how about a donation to an animal welfare group in their name? I would love that if I were in their shoes.
Anonymous
If they sent a printed invite, you can get it professionally framed.
Shananana
I worked with an artist to have a watercolor done of a friends wedding venue they really loved with their wedding date and had it framed. It came in slightly below your budget and they absolutely loved it. I used an artist on Etsy I found (marywynnart), but have since met a local artist at a farmers market who does similar commissions.
OP
This is an amazing idea. I might go with this. Thank you! And thanks everyone for all the awesome suggestions!
Anon
I would like to holler a big huge WHYYY to anybody who believes in full on knowledge hoarding to ensure ‘job security’.
I’m talking full on hoping that the new team fails and they see that this one staffer was the only human on earth who could keep the program running. Now I am training a new manager and new team (which is incredibly time consuming but I know is worth it) and seeing that the documentation makes it so much easier and clearer for everyone and… I am actively frustrated that prior staffer flat out refused to transition or train ever. (Note: government job so very hard to fire, hence not an option to ‘just fire staffer’.)
Anon
Omg I am right there with you.
Anonymous
This is something that I think shows the quality of a workplace almost more than anything else: Are systems to document processes actively in place and updated? It shouldn’t be up to individuals or even individual managers. The reality is there will always be personalities who passively or even actively sabotage by not sharing what they know. It’s shocking how little emphasis some places put on its importance.
Anon
Boomer mentality: make yourself indispensable and you can’t get fired.
Sane mentality: anyone who is truly “indispensable” is knowledge hoarding, refusing to delegate, and lacks any sort of transition plan. If the indispensable person has a stroke tomorrow, your company is SOL and that’s bad planning.
Anon
+1 I work for the government as well, and have met a few of the knowledge hoarders. Good luck!
Anon
Any ‘rettes live in Vancouver?, BC We’re exploring relocating. Can we afford to live on ~$300K CA with two kids under 4? If so, where should we look?
Anon
Can you just relocate there or do you have citizenship or something?
Anon
Or maybe she’s already Canadian . . .
Anon
OP – opportunity to relocate there from the US through work (which has been in the works for about a year). I’ll be taking a paycut and DH would likely be unemployed for some time. I can work remotely in my current job but anticipate needing to find a new job in ~2 years (once I have permanent residency), so need to be close enough to commute to office locations if necessary.
OP
Sorry – I mean to change my name to “OP”, not put it in the comment box. And apologize for the typos in the original post – this was all pre-coffee!
Anon
She said California in her original,post. Genuinely curious how this would work in the absence of employer sponsorship or citizenship.
Anon
CA is Canadian, not California.
Anon
Oh, does California have its own currency now?
Anon
No but we should (not the commenter you’re responding to).
California doesn’t get as much back in federal spending as we Californians pay in federal taxes. (There are charts about this all over the internet. The red states are the takers, the blue states are the donor states.)
So I as a Californian would be better off if California seceded. We are the fifth largest economy in the world. We could certainly do it on our own. Set up our own banking system (underway already due to legalized marijuana issues) and social security and defense. We are best positioned of any US state to do it.
OP
CA = Canadian $, not Californian $. I would be sponsored by my employer.
Anonymous
Not OP but it’s not hard to move to Canada if you have a job offer and job offers are super easy to come by especially in healthcare.
Seafinch
Hmmmm. I don’t have direct, first hand knowledge but travel a lot to Vancouver for work and have a few friends there. I don’t know that I would want to do it on 300k. It is incredibly expensive. You will likely either sacrifice space (go way smaller like NYC) or commute, or both. Obviously, lots of people do it but I think 300k is close to the minimum. It’s really subjective and depends on what you are used to. Vancouver is gorgeous.
Anonymous
This. Vancouver is gorgeous but very pricey. How far out can you live and still have a decent commute?
Squeak
Roughly whereabouts are you relocating from? I think you can make it work on that income in Vancouver (I know lots of people who get by with much less) but your tolerance for the increased cost of living may be less if you’re coming from somewhere with a much lower COL. If you’re coming from anywhere in the PNW, most of California or the NYC area, then I think you will adjust fairly easily. I would say though that finding a single family home on that income might be quite difficult. Like many major cities, there are also several suburbs you can explore around the city as well.
Some general things about Vancouver that I, a person who lives in Western Canada but not Vancouver, have found as follows:
1. People aren’t particularly friendly. No one is holding the door open for you or saying “good morning!”
2. Public transportation is amazing, even as you get out to Richmmond/Surrey/Port Coquitlam. So living further out isn’t terrible if you have a city commute
3. The seafood! omg
4. Oddly, even with the cost of living, the salaries in BC are generally less than other parts of Canada. I’ve always found this very odd.
5. If you like hiking, biking or skiing, you will love Van
6. Depending on where you lived before, be prepared for a level of addiction and unhoused people that is quite high. The good news is, Vancouver has some of the best harm reduction and addiction services in Canada and actually the world. Depending on you/your family/your values, that may also be the worst news in the world.
OP
Thank you – super helpful. We’d be moving from a LCOL area but have previously lived in the SF Bay area, so could brace ourselves… Very interesting re: harm reduction / addiction services – sounds like something we would be excited about.
Oh so anon
I live in Canada but not in Vancouver. I don’t think you could live reasonably in the Lower Mainland on $300k, especially in regard to housing.
anon
Canadian now, but immigrated as an adult. GTA, not Vancouver.
Sure it is easy enough to immigrate to Canada, but it is stressful and certainly not to be undertaken on a whim. It’s immensely slow and bureaucratic, and if you are a worrier, there is lots to worry about along the way. NEVER AGAIN (although I did it myself and should have just paid someone…). You also have all the annoyance of living in a foreign country when it comes to US tax compliance. Blech blech blech. That said, Canada is pretty great and I love being here, just not the “getting” here, IYKWIM.
As to your actual question – obviously you can live in Vancouver on $300k and have a nice life, but you won’t feel rich by any extent of the imagination. It will be doubly hard if you aren’t coming in with a substantial nest egg from having sold a previous HCOL house. I perceive Vancouver as even more expensive than the GTA, and we have a household income of around $260k, no kids, 2 cats, and feel comfortable but not wealthy. We chose to live an hour by train away to get a very modest, 1950’s house on a slightly larger lot so I could garden (60×125 ft). Look at random restaurant menus and local grocery flyers (Flipp is good) to figure out food costs. Look up car insurance, look up everything. It was real sticker shock when I first came, although I came from a low cost of living place. Frankly, I still can’t get over our $7 for 4L (approx a gallon) milk…
How will your extended health care get covered? Will your employer have a plan that works here? Otherwise you have no prescription coverage and very basic hospital accommodation should you need it. What is the waitlist for family doctors like in Vancouver? Here it takes some serious hustle to find a doctor accepting patients, although it is doable. I know in Nova Scotia no amount of hustle will find you a doctor.
Have you recently visited Vancouver? Maybe get an airbnb and stay for a few weeks to try things out?
OP
Thanks so much for the perspective. We do have a property in a HCOL area that we’d be loath to sell (it’s currently rented), but could if we needed. I will have employer-provided healthcare until I get permanent residency. Appreciate the thoughts on the immigration process / daily costs.
We’ll be there to explore more later in the summer!
Anon
West coast Canadian but not Vancouver. Could you live on that income? Sure. But Vancouver is notoriously expensive – housing and child care. If your spouse is a stay at home partner, then the child care situation would be fine, I suppose. But the rental market is tight right now, especially for families. If you are looking for a single family home or even a 3 bed condo, well, that might be very tough unless your employer also provides housing. Like, if you are coming from a low cost of living city, anywhere in Vancouver will be sticker shock. If you are coming from a high cost of living city on that income, it should be the same. Canadian taxes are typically higher than the states, so your take home pay might be less than expected. My American friends find Canada to be quite expensive for groceries. Vancouver is also lovely, walkable, livable – mountains! ocean!
Former Vancouverite
I grew up in the Vancouver and while you won’t be rich, you can definitely live comfortably on $300K. I agree with the other posters that buying a house will be the biggest issue. You will be easily paying well over $2M for a three bedroom house in the neighborhoods nearer to downtown. Houses in the surrounding cities / suburbs are less but still expensive and come with a long commute. Vancouver has really bad traffic and only one real highway – traffic from the North Shore over the Lions Gate Bridge is terrible and if you’re coming from Burnaby/Tri Cities/further east you are looking at a 40-60+ minute commute.
I would also do some research now to make sure there are jobs available in your field for when you’re looking in a couple years. Vancouver is a beautiful city to live in but it is not a major commerce hub in Canada and the job opportunities in a lot of fields (e.g. finance) are quite limited compared to Toronto or other major US cities. It’s also true that salaries are generally lower despite the high cost of living. I have a lot of friends who would have loved to stay in the city but moved away from Vancouver for better job opportunities.
All that being said, I loved growing up in Vancouver and feel lucky to have had access to so much nature and natural beauty in backyard.
Anon
Recommendation for anyone looking for a dress to wear to a casual wedding/baby shower etc. who hasn’t been vibing with the looser/rufflepuff look (great for many, but I know impossible for me to pull off.) The dress looks better in person, and
https://www.loft.com/palm-tie-waist-midi-dress/587176?skuId=33368276&defaultColor=4899&catid=catl000013&selectedColor=4899
Anon
do you think admissions to colleges and grad schools will be impacted by the change in laws? there are some really good schools in some of those states…
Anon
Something else to put a thumb on the scale for men’s college admissions vs their female peers.
Anon
To the point yesterday, I wouldn’t let my son go to college in a state without abortion either.
Anokha
I wouldn’t let my daughters go to college in a state where abortion wasn’t legal.
Anon
My kids are now only allowed to go to college in states with abortion access. Sadly this excludes my alma mater in the deep south.
Anon
Do you not think you should let your kids make that, what’s it called? Choice?
Anon
Nope, they’re still kids and I’m still in charge of their welfare. My life experience counts for more here.
anon
Should parents be able to prevent a college-aged child from obtaining an abortion? Good grief…
Texas Anon
Exactly… why not educate your children on the implications and let them decide? I’m as pro choice as they come, but this is just a weird take to me.
Anon
Right? They are adults.
Anonymous
Not while I am paying the bills and responsible for their safety, especially since my daughter will be 17 when she enters college.
Anonymous
Yes. iWork in a university and admissions is hearing already about accesss to reproductive health as a reason why kids want to come to my school.
Anonymous
I went away to school at 16 in a state that required parental consent for abortions for minors. The school provided free transportation to a neighboring state for girls who needed it. I imagine colleges in states with abortion bans will do the same.
Anon
Elite schools are quite good at ensuring their students have abortions. Basic math should tell you that at least a handful, bare minimum, of students get pregnant every year, yet no one ever walks around with a big preggo belly, takes a semester off to give birth, and then returns with a baby in tow. Elite schools are most distinctly pregnancy- and baby-free zones, especially for undergrads.
I don’t know what they are doing now to keep it that way – Plan B by the handful, abortion referrals, whatnot – but I would hardly be surprised to see some of these places buy luxury buses for transporting coeds out of state.
Am I cynical? Yep! But I notice that they talk a good game about choice but never, ever figure out how to help pregnant women finish their education and have their babies, if that is what a particular woman wants. We can make our bodies like men’s bodies or we can get our degrees from low ranked schools. (Yes, my mother dropped out of college when she got pregnant and no, they didn’t help her finish her degree by whatever means possible. No, nothing has changed since the ’70s and it’s pathetic.)
No Face
I had easy access to birth control at my private university, including my first IUD. I could get it like any other prescription, right on campus. Seeing an OBGYN on campus was also easy. Condoms were available all over the place. Health insurance was one of the fees. Basically it was really easy to avoid getting pregnant. I also don’t think a student getting an abortion would necessarily even deal with the college; she would just go to the local Planned Parenthood.
Anon
The issue is the local planned parenthood may not be able to do that anymore, if the state has a fetal heartbeat law or similar.
No Face
Agree for today. I was just responding to the suggestion that colleges are pregnancy free because universities are somehow actively getting abortion services to their students. My main point is that my university mainly made it easier to prevent unwanted student pregnancies, and probably was not involved in student abortion.
Anne-on
This. At 18 I suddenly had access to an on campus ObGyn who was able to insert an IUD for free under my campus medical plan without sending my parents an itemized bill or asking for their permission (both things that prevented me from BC pills or an IUD previously as I lived at home with religious family that would have freaked). There were also condoms, education, and you could get Plan B relatively easily from the doctors before it was OTC (which was a big hurdle in the late 90s/early 2000s). In our health center the running joke was the first question they asked you if you went in for care was ‘are you pregnant’ and you were able to get free pregnancy tests super easily.
Cora
Huh?
1) College students typically don’t want to become or be pregnant. Yes school health centers can help with that, but also so can any local clinic.
2) How . . . do you know . . .about your last paragraph at all? Where did that come from?
Are you trying to suggest that the colleges are forcing people to get abortions? Maybe the students just don’t want babies. It’s generally not a smart life choice to be pregnant during your undergrad degree (of course there are exceptions!)
Anon
Oh Cora baby, you aren’t very smart. You drank all that “choice” Kool-Aid and you can’t see that abortion has been chosen for college students like Andrea’s cerulean sweater was chosen for her.
Think – actually think – what resources a student would need to finish her degree at Harvard or Davidson or Stanford if she got pregnant. Do not get sidetracked by “but no one wants to.” Then ask yourself where the resources are – the dorms, the on campus daycare, the financial aid to cover diapers and formula and daycare, the shifts on class schedule to accommodate daycare.
To say that women “don’t want it” is to be exactly like those men who make work damn near impossible for mothers (early morning meetings, 5 pm meetings, butts in seats, no WFH when your kid is sick) and then smugly declare that mothers are “choosing” to “lean out” of their careers.
PolyD
Cool. I’m looking forward to all the resources universities in Texas and Mississippi will provide for their pregnant students – cheap housing, daycare, food and diaper subsidies. This should be in the works now, right? I mean, if they really want women to choose to have babies, they should support that. Or maybe there will just be a direct line from the pregnant student to the good Christian families who will adopt their (hopefully White and healthy) babies.
anon
I think you first sentence is unnecessary and rude, but agree completely that it doesn’t feel like choice when you’re 20 and your options are getting an abortion or trying to finish your degree at an elite college that has no on-campus daycare, little to no student housing that can accommodate children, and basically no experience with supporting pregnant or parenting undergrad students. It is hard enough for graduate students to have kids and finish on time, much less undergrads who are left to figure it out on their own.
And I know, personally and directly, whereof I speak.
PolyD
It’s not wrong that this country doesn’t provide enough help to people who are parents, but the way to make that better isn’t to force women to have babies when they don’t want to.
Interestingly abortion rates have tended to go down under Democratic presidential administrations, because perhaps people feel more optimistic about getting some help if they need it.
Anti-abortion people seem to forget that pro-choice means “choice” – we don’t want to force a woman to have a baby and we don’t want to force a woman to NOT have a baby.
Anonymous
And the anti-choicers do so much to provide housing and childcare for young mothers so they can finish their degree…?
Anon
What specific policies and candidates do you support who are going to devote resources to actually providing new mothers and children with housing, diapers, childcare, maternity leave, FORMULA, etc.? I’m ready to take notes…
No Face
Yes, and moving patterns as well. I think it goes beyond SCOTUS. The Dems sort of abandoned going after state legislatures, so now many states are run by a very aggressive GOP without any checks.
My state has changed very dramatically since I moved here. I would not have moved here in these conditions, and more and more people I know are moving away.
Anon
so many other things too – like attending weddings or family events etc.
Anon
I was just talking to a woman whose daughter got into but decided not to go to UT Austin when the state passed the abortion ban.
AIMS
I just read an article about this: https://www.law.com/2022/06/27/this-is-a-life-decision-will-abortion-bans-affect-law-school-applications/
Seventh Sister
I got paywalled, but since it’s so common for lawyers to practice in the state where they went to law school, I feel like this is a bigger deal for law students than it is for say, accounting students.
Seventh Sister
Honestly, I doubt it. Most people who go to college go to one that is not selective and is close to their home. Sure, you might have some falloff at the very elite schools (e.g., Duke, Vanderbilt) but the vast majority of kids who apply to that kind of place have enough financial or social class privilege to figure out how to circumvent local restrictions.
FWIW, I told my CA kids that they are free to go to college in a state without abortion access, but they’d be taking the risk that if they needed an abortion, they’d have to involve their parents. This is “cringe” enough that both are uninterested in looking very seriously at colleges in those places. If they did pick, say, University of Utah, I’d be worried, but not *that* worried. Out-of-state tuition is a huge part of revenue to those places, it seems unlikely there will be state line checkpoints.
Anonymous
Finances and social class won’t help you in a medical emergency. That is enough reason for me to forbid my daughter to attend a school in a state without access to reproductive health care. And yes, I can tell her where she can and can’t go to college because I am paying for it and she will be a minor.
Seventh Sister
I totally understand your position.
anon
Eh, honestly, probably very selectively, and specifically on the extreme ends. I went to WashU in STL and now live in VA. MO’s abortion laws are terrifying – like wildly, wildly more terrifying than other states’ bans. However, STL is right across from IL, so still pretty easy access, though I could see it being a bit of a red flag as part of a larger issue about MO getting way way too conservative to attract new people to move there.
On the other hand, in VA, Youngkin is proposing a ban after 15 weeks, and I can’t see that affecting things – that’s pretty in line with public perception/polling in the state, and generally pretty in line with the rest of the world.
Doni
I was inspired by some ideas :) Thank You
Anon
Any favorite picnic blankets/places to buy one?
Anonymous
I have an LL Bean one that folds up with a velcro closure and has a plastic side, which is nice for damp grass. Highly recommend.
Aunt Jamesina
I just use a tarp under an old quilt. I received ra special picnic blanket that had a waterproof underside years back, and it didn’t wear very well after washing. I also didn’t like that the blanket side was poly fleece, which felt gross when the weather was warm (when we were most likely to use it). Not sure where it was from.
Anon
I’d love some job advice. I worked in higher ed administration for my entire career, left to join a private company for 2 years, and was recruited back to the same college I was at before by a colleague who is now in leadership. I report administratively to the colleague but functionally to a department head. The department head has clearly never managed someone before and I am miserable. They are not interested in delegating anything. I am basically doing administrative tasks like ordering lunch catering, formatting their documents, and getting paid six figures for it – which is unheard of in higher ed, so now I feel like I’m stuck here. It’s been six months. Any suggestions on how to either gracefully go to colleague and say – my boss doesn’t know how to manage and delegate to give me substantive work – or, how to reframe this positively?
Anon
I’m not sure it’s unheard of- I’m a professor and I swear I spend half my time formatting documents and a lot of the rest doing things not much different than ordering lunch. It has to be done and there’s nobody else to do it. Are there important parts of your job description that you’re not doing because you’re doing these other things? I think that’s where you focus your complaints.
Anon
I think she meant low level staff in higher ed making six figures is unheard of and I agree. I manage people and make less than $75k. Never heard of a staff member without direct reports making six figures in higher ed.
Faculty is totally different but most people wouldn’t consider that an admin job.
Anonymous
Okay so a, stop. “KarenSteve, we need to discuss my role. I am not a secretary. I will not be ordering lunch or formatting documents. I was hired to do this job and we need to figure out a way for me to use my skills.” And absolutely tell the person you report to “this is a disaster and I need you to step in.@. No one will respect you for not speaking up.
Monday
I wouldn’t do this unless she’s prepared to be pushed out, especially in academia.
Anon
Yes, I’m the professor who posted above. We’re highly trained (though not so highly compensated- I definitely don’t make six figures) and still spend a huge amount of time on this kind of stuff. I don’t think most faculty would look kindly on staff who think they’re too good for it.
Anon
I (OP) should clarify: we are all staff.
Lydia
Also a tenured professor and strongly agree with this. Higher ed works differently from many corporate environments.
Anon
Having a prestigious and intellectually demanding faculty job that involves some admin work on your own behalf is not the same as an administrative staff position. I’m not saying OP is in a position to push back, but it seems like a real stretch to equate her job with yours. I have never met a university faculty member who fetches coffee for other people. Source: I’m higher ed staff, my spouse, parents and in-law are all faculty.
Anon
I’m pretty sure she didn’t say anything about fetching coffee (though this is actually something I’ve had to do- make sure coffee and snacks are set up for our weekly seminar series). Anyway, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to complain about how her tasks are being allocated, I just think it’s not likely to go over well if she focuses on admin work being beneath her, which is what the poster above suggested. In academia, everyone has to do some of this stuff. If she instead focuses on the important work that she’s not able to do, that’s much more likely to get the kind of changes she wants.
Anon
OP here! It’s not that the admin tasks are beneath me, it’s more that this is a terrible use of my (for higher ed) highly compensated time. I was sold on this job as doing some major strategy and instead I am functioning as an admin because dept head doesn’t want to delegate anything. I think I will request a six month check in with my colleague/admin supervisor and just go over expectation vs reality in this role.
Anon
Sorry, OP, I wasn’t trying to imply you said these things were beneath you, it was the commenter I replied to. It’s totally fair to bring it up and hope it goes well. For what it’s worth, my spouse is a staff member and has had similar conversations with some of the people that work for him. The answer is usually that they do need to keep doing the admin stuff because there’s nobody else to do it (it’s not enough to be a full time job for another employee and no budget for it anyway), but he tries to make sure that they really are doing the job their job description says they’re supposed to be doing and come up with ways to streamline the more tedious stuff.
Anon
I think you have to say something because that doesn’t sound like it’s going to be sustainable. I would pull my hair out and go crazy.
Monday
I have a friend in a similar situation. She has a PhD and works for a university institute doing basically the same tasks you describe. She told me that her boss commented how great she is at this job, and she thought “I’m not great, I’m overqualified.” She is not happy with the day to day, and even feels some guilt about how good a job this would be for someone with much less seniority and training than she has. Meanwhile, she is making decent money but very bored.
She has applied for other things, but ultimately felt that the stability, compensation and location for this job was worth its boredom. I’m not offering any advice since I haven’t been there, just someone else’s experience. I’d hope that you can nudge for more substantive tasks to be delegated to you, but at this level when it’s been 6 months I am concerned that your boss may be one of those people who insists on doing everything herself or is threatened by anyone else making a meaningful contribution.
Anon
Six months is a natural time to ask for a check-in, both to request feedback on your performance and to say “my understanding when I was hired was that I would do X but instead I have been doing Y. What can I do to get more substantive products on X?”
Cat
No higher ed experience, but given what other posters have been saying, it sounds like you need to keep doing the admin stuff to some extent!
So I wouldn’t complain about admin tasks with this context, as opposed to framing it in a positive way, like asking if you can *also* take on more in Area X.
Anon
I didn’t read this as complaining about having to do admin stuff, rather about having to do ONLY admin stuff. That’s obviously not the role she was hired for if she’s making six figures.
Anon
That’s also how I read it. And I agree with OP that a six figure staff job in higher ed where you only do admin work is unheard of.
Anon
Any chance your job was secretly to manage the difficult to handle department head?
A long time ago, a university I worked at hired somebody who functionally was in a similar position, but their real job was ‘manage brilliant but ancient and sometimes bizarre academic who would probably be diagnosed with something were he to be a child today.’ Part of their job was also to like… make sure that the job description that went out wasn’t accidentally out of touch with social conventions, ensure that professor actually goes to big important university events, comfort crying grad students and give them the ‘yes. He was harsh. Take the feedback because he is invested in you and wants to grow.’ The person described it herding cats but was well compensated. Once Professor trusted this staffer (maybe a year in?) they were able to actually fix a bunch of administrative stuff in the department and worked there for like 8 years.
anon
Get out and find a new role is my answer. Unfortunately, higher ed sometimes does a really terrible job at structuring job responsibilities, and if you report to a gatekeeper type, it’s even worse.
The blank button
I’m having a weird tech problem and am wondering if anyone else knows how to solve it. This has happened on two different websites now: on acheckout-type page, it appears there are buttons and fields I need to complete, but all are unlabeled. The buttons appear as solid colored bars. I can click on them, and sometimes this takes me to the next screen (if I guess correctly?) and sometimes the page just reloads. I have tried using different browsers (Chrome, Safari, Edge) and different computers/OS (Mac and windows), turned off all browser extensions, deleted my cache and browsing history, and am still having the same issue. Currently this is happening for me in the checkout page of riteaid.com, but I’ve also encountered it using Paypal’s return shipping refund portal. Rite Aid said they can’t solve my personal tech issues. Has this happened to anyone else?
Texas Anon
I would suggest making sure your browser is up to date, and/or trying it in a different browser.
anon
A low-stakes question for a a heavy week: I have a giant tabby cat who likes to sleep on my nightstand. Problem is, the guy knocks all my sh!t onto the floor. Glasses, airpods, phone, hair clips, books, you name it. Am I destined to never store anything on a nightstand again? I have considered putting a basket there (maybe something long and flat), but if he knocks that thing onto the floor in the middle of the night … well.
Cats, man. Any tips for protecting my stuff from The Chonk are appreciated.
Cat
Switch nightstand styles to one where there’s a shelf for stuff under the top of the nightstand? This one is $$$ but an example of what I’m talking about – https://www.ethanallen.com/en_US/shop-furniture-bedroom-night-tables/heston-glass-top-night-table/395336.html#start=1
Anon
Yes, these style work great. If you’re looking for a more budget option, Ikea has the Tarva nightstand, which is similar. I also have a Chonk, and he doesn’t seem to disturb the items on the shelf, but he will knock things off the nightstand top. Cats are just funny.
Anonymous
Put double-stick tape around the edges of the top of the nightstand. Or aluminum foil. Or try a scat mat.
Rox
This. Double sided tape/velcro on the objects or under a tray where you keep the objects. I also have one of those suction cup drinking cup holders that I keep for the nightstand.
Anonymous
The double-stick tape is to keep the cat away, not to adhere the objects to the nightstand. Cats don’t like stepping on it.
Anonymous
This is one of the many reasons why I don’t let pets sleep in my bedroom unless my dumb neighbors are shooting off fireworks.
Anon
Aww but you miss out on the cuddles!
Anonymous
And the crashes, sighs, licking, ear-flapping …
Anon
My cat loves to do this too. I got a little stand for my glasses (like a case that stands on end with the top open to slide my glasses in and out of, with a fuzzy liner to protect the lenses). I have it positioned next to the lamp in a way that she doesn’t really go after it. I also have a mug for things like earplugs and chapstick (deep enough that she doesn’t try to pull them out), also positioned toward the wall by the lamp and glasses stand. She still knocks my phone and kleenex box off sometimes, so if there’s not enough space on top for him, then you probably need a drawer or shelf right under the the top surface to put anything else you want nearby and safe from cat.
anon
Was hoping to avoid buying new furniture, but it may be unavoidable. The Chonk isn’t even batting stuff off the nightstand. He just displaces things when he’s settling in for a good nap, hahaha.
Anon
I like it when my cat sleeps on the nightstand, so my vote is adding a sort of cat platform shelf for him, so you can put your stuff underneath, or replacing the nightstand with one that has a lower shelf for your things so they’re still within reach.
Anon
Get a nightstand with a shelf and put your stuff on the shelf.
Anon
Cats gonna cat. Nothing is safe on a tabletop. This recently included a Tiffany style lamp in my household.
Anon
Might be a tad late to this but I use a small makeup organizer thing. One of those clear ones. There’s no room for a cat to try and fit (a basket, they might try) and it never gets knocked over.
Anon
Does anyone use a credit monitoring service? My husband may have done something unwise. I can see my credit report on my Chase card but he doesn’t have that. We also have two small business we should probably be keeping an eye on. Thoughts?
Cat
no, I just pull my free credit reports periodically. If identity theft is a concern, you can also, without too much fuss, put a credit freeze on all of them — in similar circumstances I think I had it all finished within an hour.
Anon
I use Credit Karma, which I don’t know if it’s exactly a monitoring service, but they do send you notifications when new accounts are opened, etc.
Anon
What would you do in this situation?
First job in your field was working for a very small company, working for a manager who was nuts. 75% of the time praising you like you were the best employee they’d ever had, 25% of the time berating you about things other people did or mistakes the manager themselves made, threatening to fire you. Finally, the manager made good and fired you on a whim based on some made up BS and there was nothing you could do about it. (At Will State)
You work in an industry that routinely requires references and this is the only job you’ve held in your field. What would you do?
Anon
Ask a different colleague if they’d be a reference, probably.
Anon
A few things. Don’t take references so literally as to require your boss. Find other people including colleagues to vouch for you. If your field is a narrow one, consider broadening now that you’re at the start of your career.
Anon
Unfortunately no colleagues. Two person satellite office. And the reference is “may we contact your prior employer?” And a blank for manager’s name.
Anon
Put in the name of somebody in HR who will just verify your employment.
Coach Laura
Yes, many large/larger companies will not allow managers to give references and instead require that references go through HR. This is to protect the company from being sued if a bad reference is given. This will work to your advantage. Some company HR departments will only give dates worked and title, nothing else, again to protect the company.
There’s always the old way of checking by having a friend call/email a request for a reference from HR and see what they say.
But yes, list the headquarters HR department’s contact info.
Anonymous
Weird question, but I read a story about how a lot of US tax policy is perhaps flawed/suspect because it’s common practice to have people from the huge accounting firms cycle in and out of positions. (SEC does that also, right?) Aside from federal clerkships, is there anything similar for lawyers with any other branches of government?
(Specifically – is part of the reason the GOP/statehouses/Senate republicans because lawyers from major law firms rotate in and out of positions, whereas more DNC-type positions are filled by lifers?)
Anon
I’m not sure I’m understanding the question but many people in my large law firm were on the government revolving door plan on the Democratic side.
Anonymous
I can’t follow this post. What is the question?
Anonymous
The revolving door between the industry and the regulator is a Thing in many industries.
anon
Coming from someone who works in politics – this makes literally 0 sense. I know plenty of people on the GOP side of the aisle (and am friends with them! even now!), and their industry is endlessly similar to ours – same structures generally, similar people types, etc.
I know people on this board want to see GOP folks as evil and totally unlike us, but at least in the professional political world, they’re pretty similar, and it makes for a much healthier politic when you try to understand where they’re coming from (even if you vehemently disagree with them).
BeenThatGuy
On a much lighter note, I wanted to share that I just had a great experience using Apostrophe. I’ve developed some melasma on my upper lip that’s left me extremely self conscious (it’s a side effect risk of a medication that I am tapering off of). Multiple dermatologists I’ve tried to make appointments with have 3-6 month waiting lists. Out of desperation, a G00gle search led me to Apostrophe. For a $20 fee, I filled out a questionnaire and uploaded pictures for a Dr to review. In less than 24 hours, I was prescribed Hydroquinone and Tretinoin with azelaic acid. From everything I have read, these are the 2 prescriptions that work the best for the condition. The $20 was applied to my order and I should have the products in less than a week. I’ll report back how it’s going after a few weeks of treatment.
nananon
Thank you for sharing!
Anonymous
Curious about others’ experiences selling on Tradesy or TheRealReal? I have a couple lower- to middle-range handbags I’m hoping to sell. Considered eBay but am hoping to make it as easy as possible for myself. :) Thanks!
Anon
I have not heard good things about selling on TRR. Probably really easy, but I don’t think you get much money.
Anon
For women with daughters, do you think you will get your daughters IUDs even if they are not active yet? I feel like I remember being a teen and being pressured in different contexts (not to mention the risk of SA). I’m wondering if it would make sense to preemptively protect them, but it’s also a slightly painful process that I wouldn’t want to coerce my daughter into.
Anon
I should probably assume this is another troll. But no, no you should not want to coerce your daughters into getting IUDs.
Anon
i don’t like the use of the word ‘coerce’ in your post. will i educate them and discuss with them and take them to a doctor to discuss, yes. i wasn’t active until college, but i was petrified of becoming pregnant. at the time, IUDs weren’t as common so i went on the pill, but in this day and age i’d think docs might recommend IUDs first?
Anonymous
No, never. I had one and the hormonal side effects were absolutely terrible. I would never encourage my teen to subject her body and brain to hormonal BC, let alone force her to.
What we are considering is moving to a safer country. Citizenship-wise it’s feasible, but it would be horrifically expensive and our standard of living would drop dramatically.
Anon
My daughter’s not at this age yet but I work with teens so have already thought about this a lot. I think I’m going to prioritize open and nonjudgmental access to birth control and shared decision making. In my mind that means having OCPs, condoms, plan B, on hand for her to start taking if she chooses and frank discussions about the benefits of LARCs and my willingness to make that appointment for her no questions asked if she ever wants one. If she’s ever in a situation where I think there’s a high likelihood of sexual activity (steady boyfriend, going to college, other risky behaviors) I’ll probably encourage the LARC even more. A lot of my teens prefer the idea of a nexplanon over an IUD. I love my IUD but do think having it placed prior to becoming sexually active could be traumatizing.
Anon
I can’t imagine encouraging, let alone coercing, a teenage girl to get an IUD when she may not even be sexually active. It’s a horribly invasive procedure that can be excruciatingly painful, especially if you haven’t given birth. I will talk to my daughter about birth control options and let her know I’m always happy to take her on an all-expenses paid, no questions asked vacation if she needs medical care she can’t get in our red state.
Anon
Yeah, I found my IUD insertion to be more painful than unmedicated childbirth. Plus I had terrible side effects. Would not recommend.
Anonymous
Same. More painful than unmedicated childbirth with an 8.5-lb baby, and that was after I’d had the baby. I can’t even imagine how painful it would be for someone who had not previously delivered a baby.
Seventh Sister
I’ve had three IUDs placed. While I have a fairly high pain tolerance, I didn’t find it particularly painful or invasive. Two of mine were placed without any medication beforehand, for the third (recent) the doctor had me take Cervidil. It’s not something I’d dismiss out of hand for my own kid.
FWIW, my 70-something mom freaked out when I got an IUD, because a lot of IUDs were pulled off the market in the 1980s when she had small kids. She’s team oral contraceptive all the way, even though I have explained repeatedly that technology has come a long way from Dalkon Shield.
Anon
Glad I’m not the only one who finds this post horrifying.
Anon
I’m in California so feel somewhat safer, and my daughter is a young adult now and makes her own decisions, though she does come to me for advice about everything. She has been on the pill for acne since her early teens, long before she was sexually active. She worked with her pediatrician to find the right dose that still controlled acne but didn’t make her feel bloated. The risk of course when relying on it for birth control is that teenagers are gonna teenager and the risk of missing one or more pill is high. My daughter and I worked out sort of a system where she had a reminder on her phone, but at bedtime I also routinely asked her if she’d remembered to take her pill. Yes, the occasional eyeroll, but better that than an unplanned pregnancy.
I would not “make” my daughter get an IUD, but I would make sure she knew all the options and had a very open minded progressive doctor who would take the time to work through it with her.
Anon
There are so many potentially awful side effects of the pill beyond bloating. I honestly have had it with the lazy doctors who prescribe it for every hormonal condition they don’t feel like diagnosing or treating, but am glad it was a good fit for her.
Taking the pill early or late can impact efficacy too, as can missing a lot of sleep. So yeah I wouldn’t rely on it as a primary form of birth control in adolescence (even aside from the STI concern).
Anon
There really aren’t a ton of good choices. If the pill hadn’t worked on her acne she’d be on continuous antibiotics or Accutane and those are worse.
Anon
(And oh yeah, we had and have condoms easily accessible in a bathroom cabinet, no questions asked. I also have a son)
anon
I’m not sure what I’ll do yet, but I don’t know that an IUD is what I’d choose. I personally have had many issues with hormonal birth control, but at least with a pill, you can stop taking it if it causes issues. With an IUD, you’re stuck and facing a minor medical procedure to remove it.
Seventh Sister
My IUD removal took less time than one of the incessant cervical checks they did when I was pregnant. Not a big deal to schedule or endure.
Anonymous
I might stash the morning after pill somewhere accessible in case she got assaulted, but no, I would not coerce a child into getting an IUD or taking the Pill. For girls who choose not to engage in $exual activity at a young age, the implication that they are lying is incredibly damaging. And the artificial hormones are terrible enough for adults; I can’t even imagine how much they’d mess up a kid who is still maturing.
Cat
tbh, I loved being on the pill as a teen. I was prescribed it for awful periods (I would throw up from the cramps) and it made my entire life better. Still does!
I wasn’t s3xually active just because I was on the pill, nor did I think my parents were half-expecting me to be…
Anonymous
OTOH, as an abstinent college student I was deeply when campus health center personnel insisted I must be pregnant every time I showed up with step or bronchitis.
Anon
+1
Anon
Long comment in m0d please check back
Anonymous
Get her a big drawer full of all sorts of different condoms – and easy access to morning after pills.
Anonymous
I don’t understand why this isn’t the typical recommendation for teens. Hormonal BC doesn’t prevent STIs. A barrier can.
pugsnbourbon
Keep the lines of communication open and make sure she feels safe talking to you about s ex. Keep some Plan B on hand and give her time to talk privately with her pediatrician during her annual checkups.
Anon
Absolutely not, that seems traumatizing for no good reason. Maybe just talk to your daughter?
anon
Absolutely not. We can’t fight anti-choice people by being anti-choice ourselves. It’s her body, it’s her choice. That applies to your daughters to.
Flipping it around – you’d say a parent that forced their daughter to carry a pregnancy to term was terrible, right?
Anan
Conversely- would anyone get their son a vasectomy pre-emptively?
Coach Laura
My daughter couldn’t use BC pills so I had been suggesting an IUD since she was 20. She finally got a Mirena, like I had and loved, and she is like – why didn’t you tell me how good this is not to have a period? And I bit my tongue and didn’t say “I told you so!”
So I would play up the no-periods side benefit of Mirena and similar IUDs with hormones like Sklar (sp?). I know some people say that the hormones bother them but I think that is a low percentage, given that there is so little hormone on the Mirena and it doesn’t travel far in the bloodstream, according to my GYN.
Anonymous
Your GYN has drunk the Kool-Aid. I gained 15 lbs on Mirena that magically melted off when I had it removed, and my PCP says she has seen similar effects many times.
PLB
I also gained weight when I had a Mirena inserted but unlike you I’ve never lost it. :-(
Anonymous
ymmv, I lost 5-10lbs on Mirena. But I also had little to no insertion pain, so I’m a Goldilocks story.
Anonymous
Why an IUD? The arm implant lasts a while and isn’t traumatic. Frankly I’m not even sure a, say, 12 year old girl could get an IUD; they used to not even give it to grown women who hadn’t had a child yet.
Anonymous
Ugh, the implant seems way more invasive and harder to remove.
Anonymous
Counterpoint, I wish I’d started on BC much younger, before sex, for hormonal regulation. I had miserable, heavy, painful periods that were irregular. So I had several surprise visits that stained my clothes and caused a lot of anxiety about people seeing. I started on the pill at 20 after I visited a Planned Parenthood, and those issues went away.