Thursday’s TPS Report: Madison Blazer
This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

Sales of note for 2/7/25:
- Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
- Ann Taylor – Extra 25% off your $175+ purchase — and $30 of full-price pants and denim
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 15% off
- Boden – 15% off new season styles
- Eloquii – 60% off 100s of styles
- J.Crew – Extra 50% off all sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything including new arrivals + extra 20% off $125+
- Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 40% off one item + free shipping on $150+
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- My workload is vastly exceeding my capability — what should I do?
- Why is there generational resentment regarding housing? (See also)
- What colors should I wear with a deep green sweater dress?
- How do you celebrate milestone birthdays?
- How do you account for one-time expenses in your monthly budget?
- If I'm just starting to feel sick from the flu, do I want Tamilfu?
- when to toss old clothes of a different size
- a list of political actions to take right now
- ways to increase your intelligence
- what to wear when getting sworn in as a judge (congrats, reader!)
- how to break into teaching as a second career
Following up to a thread about this a week or two ago – I had a therapy appointment this morning with a psychiatrist. He said he’s not sure it’s ADD because I don’t really have the history for it, but regardless, we are going to treat the symptoms I am having. I have a prescription for short-acting adderall, 10 mg 2x a day, but to start by breaking them in half then experimenting with the dose. I’m a little nervous – does anybody who has been through this have any anecdata/stories/advice? I think it may be a lot of trial and error.
You can, if you want, request a genetic test which will measure how psychiatric medications will affect you. (It’s a cheek swab and covered by most insurances). It’s not a perfect silver bullet, but it should cut down on the guessing game of which medications will work best for you. I don’t have ADD, but thanks to the test, I know that I’d respond better to Ritalin (it does a full spectrum of different meds since a lot of them use the same receptors).
I’ll also add that the test will also tell you how you metabolize drugs, which can be helpful. So it’ll tell you if you’re a slow/average/rapid metabolizer. So if you’re a rapid metabolizer, you might go for a slow-release Rx and/or space out your dosing. Or if you’re slow, you could just be one and done, etc. (Your doctor could better interpret this as to how to do your dosing than I can)
I have ADD but I was diagnosed as a teenager. The Ritalin works wonders for my concentration. Just note that you may have a little loss of appetite when you start taking it and you’ll probably crash when the last dose wares off.
The thing about ADHD is you actually are using a stimulant, but instead of making you wired, it actually kind of helps slow your thoughts and nervous fidgets down – so if the adderall makes you feel super wired instead, it probably isn’t right for you.
How do you react to caffeine or other stimulants? For me, it’s kind of an odd curve – if I’m tired in the morning, a little bit will help me feel more alert, and if I take way way more than I’m used to quickly I get jittery – but in the evenings caffeine actually helps calm me down, and I’ve been known to have a diet soda, caffeinated tea or caffeine pill to actually help calm me down and help sleep. In college, I couldn’t drink coffee or soda at night to study – it actually made me more drowsy, and I powered through all nighters with minimal caffeine and tons of ice water.
My doctor told me that my diet Pepsi and iced tea addiction (there have been times in my life where I basically was drinking a can of diet soda every 2-3 hours throughout my waking hours, to keep myself at a steady caffeine level) was basically my form of self medicating – and by the time I graduated from college I had it dialed in for exams (1 20 oz bottle, sipped slowly, over the course of 1.5 hours was just enough caffeine to put me at optimum alertness but not need to rush out for a bathroom break mid-exam).
However, if you are prone to anxiety and don’t have it under control or good coping mechanisms, Adderall dialed up the anxiety for me. Regular, everyday anxieties were actually lower, since I was getting more work done each day and spending less time playing “paper, paper, where would I have put that paper?” – I was starting and finishing 3-5 things a day, instead of starting 10, finishing 2 and then saying “now where was I on this other thing I started a few days ago? And where is the folder again?” However, until I got used to it, when things went wrong or we had to rush, something that would have been a 5 or 6 on a 1=no anxiety, 10=full out panic attack scale were ratcheted up to a 7 or 8, sometimes even spiking up to a 9, and I would have to sit down and do breathing exercises to calm my heart rate and overall “OMG, I can’t deal with this” mental flipouts. After a few weeks, and getting past the worst part of my work year, things came back down to where they had been, but it was rough initially. Same thing with anger – things that would have made me a 5 or 6 frustration/anger level were going up to a 7, or 8, and I had to really work to keep from chewing out some of my less than competent coworkers when they made annoying but not atypical mistakes. I also decided at that point I was on too high a dosage (we had been going up 5 mg every few months), and dropping back down a level helped even things out too.
So – in a nutshell – Adderall is great if you really just need a bit of help focusing, and you aren’t otherwise regularly anxious or stressed out. I personally like the extended release better, but it’s pricier (although now there is an extended release generic, thank goodness). I also took Strattera for a while, which is a non-stimulant option, when I couldn’t deal with the Adderall anger (my coworkers weren’t going to get any more competent, my big bosses and customers were jerks, my industry was in layoff mode so I wasn’t getting a job elsewhere and I was being expected to do more and more) – it isn’t nearly as good for focus (for me) but it also didn’t amp me up into racing heartbeats or steam coming out of my ears nearly as easily.
Also, do your homework on what is covered/not covered or requires prior authorization. Now that I’m operating at a lower stress level overall, I went back on Adderall. My doctor said I could actually do both Strattera and Adderall together, but there isn’t a generic Strattera in the US, so it was going to be almost $11 per pill ($300+ per month) on my not-so-great insurance.
There’s also the issue of a stimulant basically increasing dopamine levels which are inhibitory-type of chemicals. Rx for stimulants typically are on triplicate prescriptions which have to be filled within 24 hours of being written.
There are many non-stimulant medications too.
It’s important to understand that stimulants will help anyone and everyone by increasing their levels of dopamine. There is a trend for executives to use “performance enhancing” medication regimens such as this. So you are not alone in using a medication even though you are not meeting formal diagnostic criteria … which remain so controversial that the psychiatric committee decided to table this category until their next revision of the diagnostic manual.
Your insurance company may or may not cover your rx if there is no diagnosis listed.
It is a trial and error process. Many physicians start with the type of medication they use most often. WIshing you the best!
You can find many self-development books on increasing focus, memory, organization, and self-regulation. The ADD Magazine has a great adult section of information.
Wow, that model looks great. She’s actually smiling and looking genuinely happy, plus those colors are so flattering. It makes me want to buy that whole outfit!!!
I agree! This may be the blazer unicorn I have been looking for.
Can anyone comment on the fabric and how it looks IRL? I am thinking it could be a nice heavy ponte knit (but it could drift into sweatshirt territory, perhaps a bug, perhaps a feature). Just wondering if it holds up to office-wear or pills soon. May need to get in a neutral and a happy color at this price.
There are pictures at the bottom of real people wearing it. I love when websites do that.
I love this feature from TheLimited. I’ve bought things from there many times because I’ve seen that they actually look good on real women.
I bought several colorful knit blazers from The Limited year before last, and they’ve all pilled up and look pretty slouchy now. Maybe the Madison is constructed differently, but I probably won’t buy that kind of product again. (On that note, any advice on de-pilling?)
I suggest a sweater shaver and use is carefully so you don’t snag the fabric.
Interesting. I have a ponte knit blazer from The Limited from 3 or 4 years ago and it has not pilled yet. And I don’t think I’m especially gentle on clothes, most of my sweaters (from Target, Ann Taylor, Old Navy, etc.) pill pretty quickly.
I tried this on a few weeks ago. I liked it a lot at first but on second thought I could see that it would quickly get sloppy/slouchy looking. I’m in a fairly business-formal office. I think it still might fly in a more casual atmosphere.
Is there an up-market version of this that anyone could recommend? Maybe in wool? I love the look but would pay more for more office-formal fabrics.
I have this blazer- had been looking for a long-sleeved blazer in plum literally for years, so I jumped on this one (and went ahead and got the green because it was a 50% off sale at the time). The fit is a tiny bit on the boxy side (keep in mind that I’m 5’5, around 115 lbs, and have no curves), but the colors are gorgeous, and deeply saturated. It’s a heavy ponte-type fabric, but definitely does not look sweatshirt like at all. Also, it’s lined and fairly heavy, so I’ve worn it as outerwear on cool fall days. I think in colder weather/crazy AC summers it’ll work well for an office top layer. I’ve only worn each blazer once (I’m dissertating, so not leaving the house all that often these days), but was happy with how they looked and felt. I ordered the XS, which is my usual size at The Limited, and it fit as expected. So far, I’m thrilled with the purchases, and we’ll see how they hold up.
I recently bought this blazer in Turquoise and love it. I’m 5’8″ and bought it in Tall. I like the the sleeves are long enough. I can also roll up the sleeves, which shows a nice striped pattern of the lining. I feel that it’s kept it shape well, but it’s also not too stiff. I find that it’s very comfortable.
Totally agree on the model–love her look so much!
Agreed ! She looks like a woman in my office, not a scary stick insect, on whom the clothes would look completely different than anyone in real life.
I am so glad to see love for the model! That was my first thought when I saw the picture–wow, she looks absolutely FANTASTIC and like someone I would see in real life. Way to go, lady wearing the Madison blazer and the Limited!
I bought this a few weeks ago, and I love it. I agree – it’s not for court, but it’s just fine for my purposes on most days. It’s $59 – I’m ok if it doesn’t last 5 years. Other limited blazer purchases for me have lasted quite some time, so I’m good with it.
This blazer is great. I wish they still had it in purple. (I’m on the hunt for a purple blazer).
Me too! Rebecca Taylor has a beautiful plum blazer that I’ve been stalking but it’s so expensive so I’m hunting for something more reasonably priced.
Maybe this? http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/olivia-moon-ruched-sleeve-jacket-regular-petite/3312897?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&contextualcategoryid=2375500&fashionColor=Purple+Vintner&resultback=200
Ordered! They had another purple one at NAS that ended up being too slouchy in person so hopefully this one is perfect. Thank you.
I also have this blazer. I bought this one a while ago and love it. I have it in purple which is a great color. I had also tried it in green (which they don’t seem to sell anymore) but the color was off and the sizing was different. The Olivia Moon jacket doesn’t have any lining and the sleeves are ruched, so I suspect that I’ll wear the Limited Madison Blazer more in the winter.
DH’s parents regularly call DH and chastise him for not calling or visiting enough. We both have extremely busy jobs, but his sister and her husband have 9-5 non-taxing jobs, so we look bad in comparison. Sister also has 2 kids and DH’s parents routinely babysit, so they “see” each other more and talk more, even if the seeing and talking is kid drop off or asking for a favor. DH and I are both introverted, and after a long day at work we are lucky to get home and have time to make a meal, watch a tv show and go to bed. Weekends are spent either working or doing laundry, groceries, etc. It seems like no matter how many times we try to explain this to his parents, they don’t get it. Ironically, when we reviewed our call logs, we actually call them more than they call us. And we see them for a meal about once every 3-4 weeks. Any tips on dealing with this kind of thing? It’s a non-issue in my family, my parents always initiate a get-together with us and I don’t think they are at home stewing over the fact that I don’t invite them first.
At one point my DH’s dad called him and said “you are not a good son, you don’t call me enough”. What worked for DH was calling his dad every single Sunday for a couple of months. After that he stopped complaining. I think a similar scheduled call might work in this case if you do it frequently (2x/week?) and then drop off the frequency after a month to 1x/week, etc. What does DH say when they complain to him?
He tries to be reasonable and point out that he does in fact call them fairly often and that he actually calls them more than they call him. The we will go on a period of time where we make an extra effort to call even more than we do regularly. But it never seems to be enough. I worry that because his mom and sister speak at a minimum of once daily and see each other multiple times a week, it will always seem like our communication is less in comparison.
We have similar problems with my MIL (although my husband is an only child). Nothing is enough. She recently told my mother she couldn’t remember the last time she had spoken to my husband when it had been two days before. (This is not an early dementia issue).
We tried the scheduled weekly call. It felt too constricting for her. We have encouraged her to call more often. She complains if, when she calls during the work day, he can’t speak with her for long periods of time. She periodically has huge, dramatic fits where she says that she never wants to speak to him again because it “hurts too much” that he doesn’t speak to her as often as she wants. It has only gotten worse since we got married because she and my mom talk a lot, and MIL is angry if my mother talks to me more than MIL talks to either him or me.
Hopefully, your in-laws aren’t as nuts. But my advice is the same: stop engaging about it. If they want to complain, end the call. Make a reasonable effort to speak with them on a regular basis, but you’ll never satisfy them, so don’t try. If this is too hard on your husband, have him get a little therapy about how he’s only responsible for his own emotions, not theirs.
Agree with Diana Barry. In my family, the number of times my parents call us is zero. They just don’t ever pick up the phone. It’s 100% our responsibility to call them, so I do it once a week, while driving home. I don’t like it, I’m busier than they are (they are retired), but that’s the deal, they are not going to call us. So I call them.
I do this. My parents know that my relationship with them has to be on my terms and my terms alone. I call them a few times a week on my way home and talk to whoever is around at that point in time. I’m sure they would like it if it was more often, but that is how our relationship works best. They call me for emergencies only or if I’ve disappeared for a few weeks, usually because I’ve had to leave work super late and don’t want to be calling them at 9pm.
You aren’t that busy; you just don’t like them.
We like them. We are starting to like them less every time we get yelled at.
“we get yelled at” are you on these calls?
No matter. Parents are saying in a badly-emotive way that they love you and want to see you more. And then you put something on your calendar. Too busy and tired to cook: g-d invented restaurants for that. Pick one near you during the week or one near them on the weekend. Watch a football game together. Root for the Royals.
Whoever answers the call bears the brunt so it could be either of us. We do like the Royals. Maybe we will try that.
I feel like dinner with parents ever 3-4 weeks is fairly frequent. I live in the same metro area, have a close relationship with my parents, and probably only do that every 4-6 weeks. That doesn’t make you a bad person, it just means that different people are able and/ or more comfortable with different relationship terms than you are.
You value doing laundry more than them and they know it. That’s not introversion.
Or, they would prefer to spend time alone rather than see people, even their parents. Which is exactly introversion.
IDK — I’m introverted, but not a jerk.
Anonymous – Not wanting to spend time with your parents/in-laws doesn’t make you a jerk. Personally I think seeing my parents and in-laws at major holidays is more than enough time with them.
Laundry is a chore. Something you have to do if you want to look professional and wear clean clothes. Saying she values doing laundry more than her in-laws is pretty insulting.
Wow anonymous, you’re really rude today.
Own your values! You value time alone with your husband. Fine but you can’t expect them to like it.
Valuing time alone with your husband does not make you a jerk. And they don’t have to like it but they do need to accept it.
Did it ever occur to you that it’s possible to *value* something (the parents) but not want to express that value in one specific way, or as frequently as someone else might want you to (x number of phone calls/week)? The false dichotomy thing you have going on here is stupid. And these jerk responses “You aren’t that busy; you just don’t like them”/”You value doing laundry more than them and they know it. That’s not introversion” adds nothing productive to this conversation.
So you live pretty close, I take it? If so, once a month for a couple hours isn’t that much at all. Do you ever spend a whole day with them? I’ve never lived near my parents since college, but I still saw them for more total hours per year than you guys do.
In my family, the onus is on the kids to call the parents. The parents stew, waiting for you to call. I also get frustrated that they don’t call more. There is a bit of guilt going on for us. Parents feel guilty for bothering us, so they don’t call. But I admit…. I should call more. I was always very busy (medical school, residency etc..), but honestly…. I still should have visited more. Anyway, the parents will not change in this regard, so the challenge is learning how to deal with it.
What does your husband say? He should be managing this.
The easy answer is that he should have a few more, longer visits with them without you.
As someone who no longer has a mother and whose father is critically ill…. these sort of “problems” are ones that sooner than you think will no longer be problems. Think about this….
I take your point. Maybe we should be trying harder. We live pretty close, about a 30 minute drive. They’re in a suburban area so we have no occasion to “stop in” (whereas they come to our area to shop, so they could be stopping in). DH usually tries to reason with them and says things like “I do call you, I called you 2x last week” but they don’t listen to reason. His mother usually cuts him off repeatedly until he ends the conversation out of frustration.
Do you want them to stop in? Have you told them that? I would hate it if people showed up unexpected at my home, but if that is what would work for you maybe you should talk about it?
The unannounced visit is not ideal but if it saves us an hour of driving or some complaining we will work with it! Every time they mention how we don’t stop in, we always say “we are never in your area but you are welcome to stop in at our place” and they don’t.
As far as “we are never in your area,” if they are only 30 minutes away, it’s really not too much for them to think you might intentionally go to their area just to see them sometimes. Could you do that once a month? Make a family afternoon of it?
If I lived 30 mins from my parents or in-laws, I’d probably have sunday lunch or dinner with them every week unless I was out of town. 30 mins is really close! Then you could also probably call them less frequently. Do they text? Texting my MIL satisfies some of that constant contact need with 1/4 of the effort.
Of course you call them more! You have a busy schedule and they are retirees so you set the schedule of when you have time to talk. Is there an amount of time or frequency that would make them happy? Like if DH had a set once a week time he calls them, would that make you all feel better?
Do you call them every weekend? If not, that’s a pretty easy thing to fix. It doesn’t have to be a one hour phone call. A quick 15 minute check-in would really take hardly any of your time and might go a long way towards improving relations. If you’re already calling them once a week and seeing them every 3-4 weeks then I think they’re being pretty unreasonable.
We call for a check in once a week and maybe text a few times outside of that.
For what it’s worth, my relationship with my mom really improved when she started texting. I was able to send her a quick message that showed her I was thinking of her – sometimes a pic from the grocery store showing her a favourite thing of hers is on sale, or from the line at the bank to say hi, or whatever. She texts stuff like that too so it’s sort of one long slow never ending conversation which is weirdly really lovely.
Yes- texting!
I’m going to slightly disagree with the group here, and say that I think that upping the level of contact, by itself, isn’t the solution. The reality is, you guys *do* see his parents less/talk to them on the phone less than your in-laws do, and no matter how much time you make for them, that’s always going to be the case because of logistics, so I don’t know that more phone calls/visits is going to satisfy his parents, if they’re looking for in-laws level of contact with you guys. Also, while I’m sure your H doesn’t enjoy playing the role of “bad son” on those chastising phone calls, the level of contact you’re describing is not, per se, unreasonable. (If you were saying you only saw them twice a year and called once a month, I’d be agreeing with other posters on the “make all the efforts!” front, but that’s not what you’re describing.)
What if, the next time his parents start with the “you never call us!” chastisement, your husband tells them they’re hurting his feelings and asks them what they’d like him to do differently? Right now, it sounds like you’re chasing some nebulous “more contact” expectation that hasn’t really been quantified (which is what allows them to continue the “you never call us!” conversation whenever they want), and you’d all be better served by having clearer expectations around what they’d like to see happen, and what you and your H are actually willing and able to do. This may not relieve the friction – their “what we’d like to have happen” could very well be “we’d like you to move next door so we can share backyards,” which I’m guessing would be a giant nope for you on your end – but at least if H knows what “enough contact” would actually look like to them, he’ll have a context for their criticism that’ll help him decide how to respond.
+1 to all of this. I don’t think you’re being unreasonable, the in-laws’ expectations are unreasonable and the effort needs to be focused not on more contact but in managing the conflict.
Yup. What you’re doing now isn’t working so try doing something different. Say “What do you want us to do?” and listen to what they say, then decide whether you’re willing to do it. Or maybe some of it.
I’m going to go in a different direction than most of the previous posters and say that we have similar problems with DH’s parents (his mom in particular), but in their case, the real problem is that his mom is a narcissist. I see some hints of that in your post as well — the lack of empathy for your schedule and your needs; the fact that no matter how much you call, they claim you call less than that; the fact that you are required to call them but they never call you; the fact that they scream and yell that you don’t call them enough. All of those behaviors are textbook narcissism.
Ironically, we’ve found that visiting them more makes them behave worse. The problem with narcissism is that the person can never be satisfied. So if we visit every 8 weeks, they scream at us that it’s not every month. If DH calls once a week, they scream that it’s been 3 days and they haven’t heard from him. They are more pleasant when we keep them at arm’s length rather than when we cave to their demands.
Obviously I can’t determine this from a short post on the internet, but I wanted to weigh in with that counterpoint in case it sounds like what you’re going through. And unfortunately I don’t have any great advice, other than to do what you need to do and don’t buy into their guilt/obligation that you are doing something wrong.
Do they text? I love my in laws (they’re super nice) but I am a homebody. They’re similarly located as yours are so we don’t see them a ton, but when we do it becomes an all day/night extravaganza. It’s nice, but we definitely know we have to block out a day anytime we go there. Texting has been a life saver. It can just be random; example “the great pumpkin is on tonight it’s my childhood favorite! Did you guys watch it when DH was growing up?” quick easy and shows some interest.
I agree. My parents don’t really guilt me like the OP’s, but I know they feel like they don’t talk to me enough. (My mom used to talk to her mom once a day, then multiple times a day on the phone for decades; we talk like 2x/week.) But my dad and I text pretty frequently. He likes it and is good at it (amazingly — this is a man who doesn’t really understand what “google” is). Similarly, they know that every Sunday, they’re going to talk to my brother. He set up that boundary with them, and they respect it. On the rare occasion he’s busy on a Sunday, he lets them know ahead of time, and then calls on Monday or Tuesday.
Are you me?
I’ve been married 8 years and this has been an issue with my DH and his mother since the day we got engaged. We finally realized at some point that what’s driving the constant crying, silent treatment, yelling and randomly bursting into tears, drama, etc. around “you don’t call enough,” “ever since you got married, you changed,” “do you even remember you have a mother” etc. is two things:
1) She wants to know that she is still a priority for both ME and her son.
2) She values frequency as much as substance (i.e., a single 1-hour call every week doesn’t mean as much as three 20-min calls during the week0.
We know what the red flags are – we go for 4 days without either one of us talking to her, I don’t call her separately for 2 weeks, our kid hasn’t talked to her for a wee, etc. So we’ve come up with the following:
– She wanted to be my best friend from the very beginning and I had to have a gentle conversation with my DH (who relayed it even more gently to her) that while I love her and treasure our relationship, by no means am I as close to her as I am to my mom. She’s my MIL, not my mom, not my best friend – maybe if we were two different people, things would be different but for me, I am close to her but there are things that I will not talk to her about (e.g., problems with my family, my sister) However, I call her separately without DH so she knows that I am thinking about her and want to have a separate relationship with her. I do this candidly while I’m doing the dishes, or driving, or folding laundry so not a big deal. Frequency: once a week.
– Similarly, DH has to call her separately at least once a week. Usually by Wednesday, I’ll ask him – hey, have you called your mom? If he hasn’t, he makes it a point to do it by Thursday. Is it check the box? Yes, he wants to talk to her but for him, his optimal frequency is once a week. (With my family? Every 2-3 weeks which I’m fine with). For her, it’s every 2-3 days so we try to get to a middle ground where we individually talk to her twice a week. Again, he does this usually while driving to work, running errands, etc.
– Finally, every Saturday morning, we make it a point to do Facetime/Skype with our kid and her grandparents for at least 30 minutes. This is non-negotiable. They live far, they’re our parents, it’s the least we could do.
Apart from this, we started a WhatsApp instant messaging group with DH, his parents, and his siblings’ families and we text maybe once a day with stories, funny jokes, pic of our kid, etc. So she hears from us pretty regularly but it’s not a huge drain of our time.
Basically bottom line – if it’s a priority, you’ll make time. And figure out what’s driving the drama and manage around it.
So, I have a harsher response than most, I guess. I don’t think his parents’ behavior is acceptable, and I definitely don’t think it should be rewarded with more contact. I try to teach my toddler that yelling is not going to result in the desired outcome, and I think that the same rule should apply to adults. In your husband’s shoes, I’d send an email that says, “It’s stressful and unpleasant to be yelled at when we talk to you. Therefore, I’m going to take a break from contacting you for the next few weeks. When I get back in touch, I expect to be treated with basic respect, even when you are unhappy with the decisions that I am making. If that’s not possible, I won’t be able to spend time with you at all.”
+1
I think there is some good advice here (but perhaps it is a little over-the-top). I would absolutely directly state that you don’t appreciate being yelled at every time that you talk to them, but I don’t know that a multi-week hiatus is necessary or going to help. Figure out what you are comfortable with (calling twice a week for 20 minutes and seeing them once a month), and let them know you will do that. If they start nagging/yelling on the call, the call gets terminated immediately. Set boundaries you are comfortable with and stick to them.
I wonder though…. if there is some exaggeration about the in-laws “yelling”. If they were truly yelling at them every week, then that is totally irrational and unacceptable and should not be tolerated. But the OP’s initial post was a bit passive aggressive (on her part as well), and the harshest word was “chastise”.
Well, visiting your parents once a month for a dinner only is not great when you live so close. Yes the contrast to the sibs is striking, and not something that you should have to replicate, but it does provide a stark contrast.
I just feel that so many people don’t realize how good their lives are. It is really staggering to me….
But I guess we all are a reflection of our own abuses and insecurities.
My mum once gave me some good advice: “Don’t give people you love ultimatums”. It’s really good advice that has served me well.
Even if threatening never to see or speak to your parents again turns out to be effective, an ultimatum like that will leave a permanent scar on your relationship.
I struggle with this with my own parents. They live relatively close, about an hour away, but my brother lives just a couple miles from them and is able to visit often. I work very long hours, so it really is hard to get pumped to get down there. I don’t know if your in-laws are this way, but visits with my parents aren’t especially fulfilling–we’re not super close and they tend to be rather critical. I know I could and should visit more often, but none of my life feels like my own much of the time, so there it is. I call as much as possible, though even that can be difficult because they go to bed early, but we talk 1-2 times per week most weeks. I go see them once every 6 weeks or so.
Not that I have much of a solution, just some commiseration.
Do you have any plans scheduled with them right now (besides major holidays like Thanksgiving)? For my family and in-laws, a huge part of it is just picking a date and committing to it, so that we all know when we will next see each other. It doesn’t have to be super specific – even just saying “hey, let’s go out to dinner on the weekend of November 14th – we’ll iron out the details closer to the date” makes everyone happy to know that we have established our next outing together. When we don’t have concrete plans is when we wind up with my in-laws just stopping by on a Sunday afternoon – and then sitting in my living room for 3-4 hours, discussing subjects that make my husband and I cringe (politics – we have very different views; my FIL’s brothers and sisters – my husband refuses to spend time with them due to past incidents, etc).
I like my in-laws as people – they are nice people, who want the best for my husband and I, and they love my kids – but I don’t actually enjoy spending more than an hour with them if we aren’t actively doing something that provides a topic of conversation (i.e. going apple picking or cooking a meal – we can talk about the apples, or the food we are cooking). So having plans to do a thing is kind of annoying, when what I really want to do is chill on my couch – but it’s better than sitting on my couch wishing they would just leave already. Even better is when I can encourage them to do something with just our kids (free babysitting! and they like us, but loooove the kids), or I can send my husband off to hang out with just his dad – not every outing with them has to involve me. Is there an activity you currently do, where you could encourage your husband to spend time with his family then? For instance, you go to Tuesday night yoga, he calls his mom or goes bowling with his dad.
Do your in-laws watch the grandkids on any kind of a set schedule? My parents get my kids after school 2 days a week, and then we have dinner at their house. My sister lives about 30 minutes away, and she and her husband probably come to these family dinners 1-2x a month. On one hand, yes, it’s annoying for her to have to drive 30 minutes each way for dinner after a long work day. But on the other hand – at least that way she doesn’t have to cook or do dishes that night, and she almost always gets send away with another 1-3 meals worth of leftovers.
Or since your in-laws are retired and may have more time to drive to you, could you do something where you place a take-out order that you pick up on your way home from work, and have them meet you at your place? Something like “first Wednesday of the month Chinese take-out night” could be fun, and again, give you a break from cooking dinner – but not take as long as going to a restaurant.
I guess I’m in the minority but the parents’ request doesn’t seem unreasonable. My DH and I are both only children and have a rule (initially imposed by our parents when we each first moved out 10-15 years ago) that we speak to our parents once a day. The unspoken rule has been that we call them (I call mine and he calls his although we text each other’s often) and that the parents never call given our unpredictable/busy schedules. Both sets of parents live within 20 minutes of us and we see both at least once a month for a planned dinner and maybe an additional once or twice a month when they drop in. I admit that this arrangement was super irritating when I was in college and trying too hard to be independent. But now I see it as they’re not going to be here forever, and if a 10 minute call as I drive home from work makes them happy, then it’s not too hard for me to prioritize making that call.
So my advice would be not to worry about competing with the sister but to encourage your DH to increase his contact with the parents to the extent he’s comfortable. They just want to see that he cares about them — and my guess is a 10 minute call a day will be enough to show them that and all the nagging will stop. You can call as you’re doing the laundry!
Random hive request but anyone have recommend for an alarm clock. I’ve been using my iphone but it’s become clear that it’s far too easy to turn off when I’m trying to snooze. Like this morning, I KNOW I set my alarm last night, but woke up at 8:30 by myself, when the alarm was set for 7:00.
http://www.amazon.com/Philips-Wake-Up-Light-Radio-White/dp/B00E91EGDS
I have a different light up alarm and also love it.
Yes times a million. Also helps me fall asleep with the gradual turning off feature.
My only fear with one of the light ones is that I suffer from Depression/Bipolar (my diagnose isn’t set in stone) and I know that excess exposure to light can effect the bipolar portion of my illness.
You should talk to your mental health provider. I have SAD and the gradual light helps me before I blast myself with my light box. Obviously two totally different animals, but worth asking if you’re interested.
I actually see him on Monday, so it’s good timing. I will ask. Thanks so much!
Me too! I’m totally trained to fall asleep to this.
I’ve broken snooze alarms before and my preferred amount of hitting the button is about 3 hours.
I’ve always wanted a clocky: http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=clocky&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=30683274401&hvpos=1t2&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11084245861159587303&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_7wx9tkfso0_b
I have one and it’s magical…but I hate it and want to kill it every day…but it does get me out of bed
This is amazing. I literally clicked your link and bought one for my husband immediately. He is a snooze-abuser.
Set your alarm for the time you actually need to get out of bed, then put it on the other side of the room so you have to get up to shut it off.
I did this in college (chronic over-sleeper), and would manage to sleepwalk across the room and still get back in bed & keep sleeping.
I have a little green plastic one that’s about three inches square from IKEA. Its most useful feature is that it also has a thermometer in. For actual waking up you can’t beat a clock radio in my opinion. It wakes me up and keeps me awake.
I have a Sony ipod/cd/digital blue display one, which I cover with a scarf every night to keep the light mild, but I want this PB Teen bunny one. It’s adorable. I have no idea if it actually functions.
http://www.pbteen.com/products/8979874/?catalogId=18&sku=8979874&bnrid=3780801&cm_ven=Google_PLA&cm_cat=Shopping&cm_pla=Feed&cm_ite=Google%20Base&kwid=productads-plaid^64052588935-sku^8979874-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^91506051448
I used to have a Neverlate Executive alarm clock. It had a ton of features, but my favorite was that you could set the snooze to cut in half until it won’t let you snooze anymore. So you can set the initial snooze for 10 minutes then it will snooze 5 minutes the next time then 3 then 2 then 1 then it won’t let you snooze anymore.
I was a major snooze button pusher until I met my husband. He has trouble falling back asleep and I get up 2 hours before he has to. So I don’t let myself hit snooze anymore. It definitely took an external reason for me to make the switch though.
For those of you who like/love your jobs, how did you know what you wanted to do, career-wise?
I’ve been an attorney for a little over five years, and while on paper I have it good (I’m an HYS grad, I work for nice people, I have a large institutional client that provides a steady stream of work, I have a good amount of autonomy and am getting plenty of experience, and my average day is only about 9-6:30, which is decent hours for a lawyer), but I am actively miserable each and every day that I have to go to work. At home, on the weekends, in the evenings at my side gig or volunteer activity, I’m a happy person and I enjoy my life, but every Monday through Friday morning I wake up feeling like I’m being slowly crushed to death. It’s gotten to the point where I occasionally have to close my door mid-day because I look sad/upset, and I don’t want people asking me what’s wrong.
I’ve tried a number of different types of lawyer jobs (Biglaw, tiny boutique, clerkship, now at a midsized firm), and, with the exception of the clerkship (which I mostly liked), they all made me feel this way. I really want to start over and try a different career path, but I’ve never really worked in any other industry (I went straight through from college to law school), and I’m afraid I’ll “choose wrong” again, and will find myself older and even more financially burdened and still unhappy at work five years down the road. So, for those of you who are happy with what you do, how did you get there? How did you find your path? How would you recommend sorting all of this out?
Have you tried anti-depressants?
1. It’s a job. It gives you $. It’s good if you like it, but rare that you love it. But HYS (etc.) feed people the whole job as transformative experience line that I think is nonsense. Did I feel like this when I worked for minimum wage? No, but I liked it.
2. A job you like, but not love, that doesn’t take all of your time, lets you do things that you do love.
3. You’ve hopped around a lot for being out only 5 years. Maybe perma-clerking is for you? I know someone who does that 1) b/c she likes (not loves) it and 2) she can spend more time with her children. I might do that if I won the lottery even if my children were grown.
4. You’re junior, but you can grow your practice in the direction you want it to go in. If you were a solo (or a partner), you’d have to grown your practice anyway. Maybe start driving more?
TL;DR: it’s just a job. It can probably be more fulfilling, but I think that transformative WOWWOWWOW jobs are just not really a thing.
I would recommend the book “So Good They Can’t Ignore You” – it’s basically about how the WOWWOWWOW jobs aren’t entirely a myth, but are typically something you arrive at after spending a lot of time building skills and becoming passionate about the work you’re doing – NOT that you magically walk into a job and say, “Yes, this is the one, this is the thing I’m meant to do.”
This is a great book. I totally second this recommendation. Also, Cal Newport’s blog is pretty interesting.
I’m interested to read this book. I am currently in my “WOWWOWWOW job” but, exactly like LAnon said, it’s something I arrived at after spending a lot of time building skills and becoming passionate about the work I’m doing.
I’d recommend a few sessions with a life coach. Or does your law school offer career services? Or have you considered therapy.
What is it about practicing law that you don’t like? Do you like learning about the subject area? Do you just not like working as a private practice attorney? Is it the set hours and expectations?
For perspective, I specialize in a certain area of law and was a litigator in that area for many years. I love the area of law, but the litigation was just exhausting and I grew to actively dislike it. I’m in-house now, specializing in the same area, and I love that I can hone my expertise, but I’m not engaged in rhetorical combat every day.
You could look for a career clerk position.
What was different about the clerkship? If courts in your area hire legal counsel maybe tgat would be a better fit. Or maybe there are certain things about clerking that you could find in other roles, whether legal or not.
I’m kind of in the same boat (although not a HYS grad). I will say, all the jobs you didn’t like (since you said you liked the clerkship pretty well) were law firms. Law firms are law firms. Big, boutique, mid-sized…there are plenty of differences but there are also plenty of similarities. Have you thought about trying to go in-house or work for the government or non-profit? I’ve heard a lot of people say life is so much better in those jobs. Even things that might seem pretty trivial, like not having to bill your time, can make a big difference in job happiness (or so I’ve heard). If you enjoyed the clerkship what about court staff attorney or career clerk positions? I know they’re hard to get but I do have friends who have landed them and it sounds like you have great credentials.
I have no personal experience with anti-depressants or therapy but it doesn’t sound to me like you’re depressed if you generally enjoy life and consider yourself happy and just hate your job. I’d probably quit before I’d start medicating myself, but I suppose that depends on your financial position.
A few clarifications:
I’m in therapy – my therapist doesn’t think antidepressants are right for me right now, but we have regular check-ins around the possibility.
I’m not looking for a magical transformative unicorn job – I’m just trying to figure out how people manage to find a career that doesn’t make them idly fantasize about getting into a car accident on the way to work so they don’t have to go.
I think the key differences with the clerkship were that it wasn’t adversarial, and the hours left me lots of time for family and friends and hobbies. I have been looking for perma-clerk opportunities, but they are unfortunately highly competitive and few and far between. In the meantime, I’m also exploring other career options, but every time I start to get excited about something, I end up worrying that I’m going to choose totally wrong and it’ll be terrible again – hence the question about how those of you who like or love your jobs made your career choices.
“people manage to find a career that doesn’t make them idly fantasize about getting into a car accident on the way to work so they don’t have to go.”
Not to harp, but have you said this to your therapist? Because I said something similar to mine and it was definitely the depression talking. Despite changing jobs, I would have the honeymoon period and then wake up feeling miserable about going to work. I figured it was a work issue and changed jobs again and it turned out it was a me issue.
This.
+1 The times I envisioned driving my car off a cliff/into a tree/whatever to avoid something weren’t because of the something, they were because my depression was not medicated properly.
Yup. The thing I was told is that it’s stuff like a fantasizing about a car accident where no one’s really hurt is usually the first step. I really hope that we’re all wrong and encourage you to explore this option more with either your therapist or your PCP. Particularly if you notice it escalate in the winter.
IMO many jobs can become adversarial (try working for a nightmare judge).
Can you take on transactional projects? Even probono ones (everyone needs help with their articles, bylaws, board, etc. if they are a small nonprofit –every city has tons of them).
I went into tax (which can be adversarial) b/c at the firm I summered with I worked for a nutcase but the estate planning people seemed to be happy (I don’t do estate planning though but I enjoy taking CLE hours b/c the stories are always awesome). I’ve seen people do a later LLM (especially for litigators), but I don’t think you need to do that when you can dip a toe in slowly.
Dude,
I had this same thought when working at a firm. Often. I got kind of jealous of people in workplace accidents (i had this awful period where I had work comp files on my desk). I got so jealous of people in my life who were doing things they cared about.
I realized that I was “performing,” and I DIDN’T EVEN LIKE MY AUDIENCE of old white guys who were more than willing to let me do the work, but never pull me in on a client meeting or let me take credit for things. If we were talking at a social event and someone came up to them, they wouldn’t even introduce me, they would just start talking to the other person, leaving me standing awkwardly. just rude, kind a d-baggy, arrogant, closed country club circle.
In a new job now. Working as counsel for a nonprofit operating alternative schools. I don’t bill time. I’m working on a cause I care about. I am teaching a class of delinquents. It’s not perfect, but I try to stay away from car accidents now.
If you’re fantasizing about suicude, that’s an untreated mental health issue.
Again, to clarify, that’s definitely not what’s happening here – the “car accident” thing is of the “oh hey, my car is now messed up and now I have to deal with the insurance all day and maybe also I can take tomorrow off because I have no car, and if I’m lucky I can somehow stretch this accident into an extra-long weekend where I’m free from the expectations of work” variety, not of the “I wish I was gravely injured or no longer alive” variety.
I get it. I was the same way – I didn’t want to die, I just wanted to take a break from my life expectations for a week or two. That’s still depression and can still be fixed by anti-depressants.
I completely understand because I was there, right down to pondering the “how bad would the accident have to be where they wouldn’t still expect me to make up the hours but that I wouldn’t be in lasting pain or disfigurement…” on a daily basis. I know, I know – completely ridiculous and irrational and sad thinking but no actual wish to hurt myself (see the pain aversion and ahem, vanity above). And I really thought I was the only one. I did go see a career counselor through the bar counseling service (wept through the first session and pulled it together the second). I got ready to walk away completely from law and throw away the years of school and work and all the attaboys for doing the things I was always “supposed to do” and it was only then that I actually saw that there were other opportunities related to my skills and strength but not law firm. I deeply love what I do now but had never imagined that I could find something that actually felt good to go do everyday (even when day to day annoyances crop up). It is so worth it to reassess and be willing to consider other possibilities. Life is way too short to spend that many hours unhappy!
I said the same thing to my doctor, and ended up committed to a mental hospital because she believed I was suicidal. It was a two day (and very expensive!) ordeal where I had to explain over and over that no, I wasn’t suicidal. It took a very compassionate psychiatrist making rounds to finally listen to me and let me go home. It was an extremely draining experience and I think it caused more harm than good. If you go the route of telling your therapist this, be VERY CLEAR about what you mean! They have a professional obligation to keep you from self harm.
Wow – I’m so sorry that happened! I have shared my story with so many lawyers who have talked about wanting to get out or wondering if anyone is ever happy in a job who have felt alone in their thinking. And its no wonder, I am consistently blown away by how messed up the law firm system is that the general acceptance is that if you actually took 12 whole hours to be sick — or heaven forbid, more — you just have to find those 12 hours to work sometime in that week or month absent some almost inconceivable excuse (hence pondering the fluke car accident or whatever …). Why wouldn’t any mental health professional look at that and see “ah, there’s a foundational problem here outside of this patient … ” (accepting that there very well also may be depression, etc. to be treated – understandably too!)
This is a surprisingly common thought among law firm attorneys. I think it actually says more about the expectations of law firms and the fact that the only way you can get a few days where you are not expected to check in and be on top of things is to have something terrible happen that was truly out of your control and made it impossible for you to work. So the perfect accident is one that caused no lasting or serious injuries, but required a moderate level of painkillers for a week that would have enough side effects to make it impossible for me to practice. And yes, this sounds completely messed up, which is why I went in house and am so much happier!
I had no idea how common these thoughts are until reading this thread. I regularly fantasize about getting into some minor accident or even getting some disease that doesn’t permanently injure me so that I can just take time off and not be “blamed” for resting in the middle of all these assignments. (I am in therapy but haven’t told my therapist these thoughts bc I’m a little embarrassed how bad it’s gotten.)
If you’re looking for a bit less adversarial, the state court systems hire court attorneys as well (e.g. the First Division in NYC).
I think you need to better understand what you do not like about your current job. What specifically? When I have deeply disliked jobs (ahem, investment banking), I was upset because I didn’t have enough time to have a life, I was d*cked around by bad people at all hours of the day, and I couldn’t see myself advancing to be like the senior people I worked for. So it was hard to muster the daily energy to give things my all when I didn’t like being there and didn’t want to go the extra mile to get ahead.
In my opinion, you can only find the right job for you if you identify why the job you’re in is not right. I recommend you look at The Authentic Career by Maggie Craddock. It might help you find the right thing.
It’s fine to not like being a lawyer. But I agree with what people said above regarding firm life being especially stressful and empty, especially if you’ve only worked at firms. Do you want more people contact? Is it not challenging enough? Do you not feel as though you’re getting enough recognition? Do you click with your co-workers or clients?
Also, please don’t think that you have to be in law forever. A lot of the suggestions here are on the lines of “transition to another type or place of law” but maybe the answer is that you’d rather not be a lawyer. Allow yourself to fantasize and daydream and figure out what you believe might make you fulfilled career-wise.
Good luck. It sounds like you need a little clear-your-head vacation to get more perspective on what you want to be doing, and where. Then take the steps you need to take to get there.
Finally, I cosign some of the above comments about a job being something that doesn’t fulfill every part of you. It can be a paycheck that’s good enough, especially if you’re making good money. I promise you, disliking your job when you make far less than an attorney is much worse.
Thanks for the book rec – I’m a big reader and tend to find self-help-y books to be actually helpful, so I will be checking this out.
As I’m reading more answers, I’m starting to realize that I’m actually really clear in my own mind about what I like to do and what I don’t like to do, and I have a number of ideas for careers I’d like to pursue instead of commercial litigation (some law, some non-law), and where I’m getting hung up is on the fear that whatever I choose next will still be “wrong” (because after all, I thought I’d love being a litigator and I was 100% wrong) and I’ll never find a job I don’t actively dislike. Which, when I write it out like that, seems kind of needlessly fatalistic, and like it’s in need of re-examining, probably with my therapist.
Here’s the thing though, you won’t know unless you try. I like my job, but there are a lot of times I actively dislike it too. IMO that’s how jobs are. If you aren’t already, I would work on addressing this anxiety in therapy.
Also, so what if the next one is “wrong?” As long as the salary is livable and you aren’t jumping every 6 months, what is really the worst that can happen? You learn more about yourself, that’s what.
I’d start reviewing the present and the past for data points. You don’t say what specifically you don’t like about this job. What do you like? What do you dislike? What jobs have you liked in the past and why? What do you enjoy doing outside of work and why?
I always knew that I wanted to practice a certain type of law and have been studying this area since undergrad. I did a bunch of internships in the field and took all the classes I could. I consistently felt happy, interested, and motivated when practicing it and talking about it. I was always eager to learn new things in the field, and paid attention to it in my own time. That’s how I knew it was right. Yeah, I get tired and certainly don’t want to work all the time, and my job in this field still has a lot of mundane annoying aspects that all jobs have (crappy boss, billable time, boring discovery requests), but I feel pretty satisfied. I practiced a different type of law few years, and felt mostly fine about what I did, but I was bored, unmotivated, listless, and couldn’t imagine myself caring about it for 10 years. It was *fine,* but something felt missing.
Also, seriously, does no one have a job they like? I feel like I’m getting lost of “you’re mentally ill, medicate yourself” responses, and no responses to my actual question, which is about how to find a career path that doesn’t require psychiatric medication to tolerate.
I have a job I love. It’s actually the same field of work that I was in before, the difference is me. Maybe the you’re right and being a lawyer isn’t for you, but sometimes the questions we think are the right ones aren’t.
I have a job I like. Honestly, I don’t know how I ended up here. Especially since despite having a job I like, I just realized that my career aspirations lie in a totally different field and I’m trying to switch into that now. It was a hard thing to accept since I had my heart set on what I’m doing now for a long time. The biggest realization for me is that there are probably a range of things I could be happy doing, and trying to find my passion or whatever is more stressful than just accepting that perhaps a lot of it is trial and error and there doesn’t need to be one thing that I love. I try to take opportunities as they present themselves and just see where things go. I haven’t really found a method to it. I would try to stop stressing about choosing wrong. I think that alone will help a lot.
+1
I have a job I like! I am about 5 years out too, I went in house about a year ago, left from a mid-sized firm (that I hated and felt the way you feel). Have never looked back. I would not say I have a unicorn job and I would certainly rather be doing something fun than going to work every day, but as far as jobs go, I like mine. It might be worth trying a legal job that’s not at a law firm and see how that suits you before you invest in re-training. I thought about the same thing, it’s so scary to think you could “pick wrong” again.
At a certain level, you build your career. Find your clients; find your issues; network the h*ck out of everything. If you want someone to hand it to you, you may wait forever. Get in the driver’s seat now.
Maybe regulatory hearings are more to your liking. Or appeals. Or client counseling. Or internal investigations. Or compliance. Keep trying until you find it, but there is not reason to think that job-hopping will do that. Start building where you are.
Government law, perhaps?
So I do document review, which most people hate, but I don’t mind it and actually sometimes enjoy. I think it is because of how I approach it. For me it is about curiosity and challenge.
I approach it from a perspective of curiosity and take it as an opportunity to learn things about fields I’d never otherwise be exposed to. I now know things about how the music and television business, computer programming, banking, and hedge funds. I learn these things through thousands of mostly boring documents, but it gives me a little additional context for the news of people I interact with.
The other aspect is challenge. Doc review is often a numbers game. I play little games with myself to see how productive I can be and whether I can average a few more documents per hour than I did yesterday. Yes, that’s totally mundane but challenging myself helps.
I am a lawyer and I like my job. I worked many different kinds of jobs while putting myself through school and I like being a lawyer the second-best of all these. (The job I liked the very best was when I worked in the infant room at a fancy daycare. But it doesn’t pay enough.) I am a public defender who does appeals. The hours are flexible when needed and predictable. Only when preparing for oral argument do I have to work late, weekends, etc. The work is necessarily adversarial, but our office has a generally good relationship with opposing counsel and while we definitely disagree on just about everything, we are respectful and kind towards each other. The clients can also be difficult, but overall I generally have good working relationships with them as well. I like the intellectual aspect of my job and the fact that I can really help someone and help shape our law. Of course, criminal defense is probably one of the least “respected” areas of law and outsiders including people in my family don’t understand how or why I would “defend those people.” But there are all the usual responses to that nonsense. Anyway, all this to say I like my job a lot. Of all the things I could be doing, this one pays decently (I could make a lot more in private practice, but I am not starving and along with my husband’s salary we can support our three kids in a comfortable life), I like the work and don’t dread coming to work everyday. However, if I won the lottery, I would quit!
I think you have unrealistic expectations about your job. I think many of us were fed the fantasy that we are special, brilliant folks who deserve to be happy and successful and all we have to do is find our passion and we will succeed at this and be happy for the rest of our lives. Oh… and well paid!
If you are lucky enough to have a stable job, that is intellectually challenging that has some meaning or purpose that is important to you, then you are more fortunate than the vast majority of the world. You chose a field that is very demanding. You entered it too young to realize that you may not want this indefinitely. That’s fine. You are still very very young and have plenty of time to try other things.
You are smart. If you don’t like it, change it. It is trial and error for most of us, with a lot of luck involved. Otherwise, do what the majority of us do…. find satisfaction in activities outside of work.
Most people do not love their jobs. You are making a lot of money for what you do to compensate for the stress and hours, and honestly, it is more money than society should grant it in my opinion. But it is what it is. You are probably in the top 1-5% already!
You can easily save like crazy and retire at a very very very early age and do ANYTHING with your life. People don’t realize this, but it is possible. You are so fortunate to have this option. But if that scares you, and you now have gold handcuffs (don’t do this!!!)……. Pull on the big girl pants and change things. But realize, you are not going to get everything you want.
Volunteer in something you might be interested in. Talk to your contacts. Talk to your counselor. Talk to a head hunter. Take a vacation.
Then GO.
+1
People have given you a lot of good job and non-job advice here. There is no magic bullet on either front.
+1 to the putting on big girl pants and changing things. You can do this!
+1
It sounds to me like you hate being a litigator. Plenty of people do. In fact, I’d venture so far as to say most people love it or hate, very few people feel “meh” about it. (And I don’t think fantasizing about getting in a *minor* car accident so you don’t have to work means you’re suicidal or mentally ill – it means you really hate your job/career and need to find a new one). Is there any possibility of getting some transactional or corporate work at your current position and seeing how you like that? Does any of your litigation work involving working closely with non-litigators? For example, I know patent litigators who have transitioned to doing patent counseling or licensing or even patent prosecution. As someone said above, you’ve really only had one job you dislike: Law firm litigator. It definitely sounds like it’s time to try something else but I don’t think this necessarily means you have to give up on the law altogether. There are plenty of lawyers who are not litigators in private practice.
I love my job. I work in publishing. In high school, like 1/3 of the college-going students, I thought I wanted to be a doctor. I took all the advanced science classes my school had to offer to make myself a better candidate. But my extracurriculars were the yearbook and debate and managing the track team. When I got to college, I enrolled in all the right classes for pre-med, but then I joined the student newspaper. I discovered I kept coming back to activities that were communication-oriented and people-oriented. So by the time I graduated (political science), I was looking for work in which I was already experienced. I’ve worked on a political campaign, as a reporter and photographer, and now I help authors shepherd their books into print.
Your job sounds really interesting to me! Publishing is one of the industries I’m interested in, but it seems like I’d need to make some sort of up-front financial investment to make the transition work (either doing some kind of masters program in NYC, or taking some kind of unpaid internship for a period of time, or some combo of the two), and while I’m not opposed to the initial investment, I’m concerned about putting time and effort into retraining without knowing whether it will be right for me – I feel like 22 year old me so thoroughly botched the law school decision, that I’m finding I’m loathe to commit to further training/education without some sort of guarantee that I’m getting it “right” this time.
Any more training and you will look like a person who is good at going to school (and at your age/stage, you need to look like a person who is going to bring some thing else to the table).
If you like publishing, maybe offer to review IP contract issues for a local nonprofit — school / museum / arts org? It could be a nice sideline of probono work.
While it might not get you into one of the big NYC publishers, the law is always a helpful skill in publishing. With electronic publishing a growing revenue stream, rights and permissions are a bigger and bigger part of the job. Rights for old books are constantly being reviewed to ensure we have rights to e-publish, to distribute globally, etc. In addition, with projects like Google Scholar and Google Books under way, old and out-of-print books are more accessible, which means going back and reviewing the publisher’s rights to books that we aren’t even actively trying to convert. (Not to mention clearing permission for use of previously printed material, images, and the like in new books.)
There may be plenty of ways to get your foot in the door in publishing with a legal background. Do consider, though, it pays much less than most legal careers.
I have a job I love, as an attorney doing union-side labor. There are moments of course when I hate it – and hate everyone I have to deal with — but that comes with every job, and also is a product of long-hours, travel, mostly adversarial work (sometimes with people who actively hate my clients and what they represent) and general stress. But overall I love it and feel grateful to have found my “fit.” I got lucky in finding this niche, so I can’t tell you how to get on the path to find yours, but I’m here to say it’s possible and no, not everyone hates their jobs.
I work in house at a university and enjoy it. There are other legal type jobs that don’t involve the adversarial struggles and stress of private practice. No need to do a full 180 if there are aspects of law (research? writing? investigations?) that you do like.
I love my job! The path to get here was winding, though, and five years out of college, I wasn’t doing what I’m doing now. There were a lot of missteps, positions that were not a good fit, forays into different fields. Then grad school, which led in an unexpected trajectory, and now I’m a professor in a field I love. It took a lot of soul searching, thinking about what I really value, what trade offs I’m willing to make (salary vs. flexibility, for example, and location vs. prestige), etc. Also, getting away from the Shoulds – whether they come from your family or your HYS instructors. I’d say the first few years of any career are likely to include some drudgery.
I recommend the book I Could Do Anything If I Knew What It Was, and Do What You Love, the Money Will Follow.
I like my job. Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t quit tomorrow if I won the lottery, but it’s fine. The reason I like it is because the people are great, the pay is fine, hours as easy, the benefits are pretty good, and it’s a short distance from my house. This is important because I realized a little while ago, my job doesn’t define me and this job allows me to do what really matters to me – volunteer, ride my horse, run, go to the gym, foster cats, etc.
I practiced law for four years, thought I hated it, took two years to bounce around (recruiting, substitute teaching, real estate), then found a job after hanging out for a couple months with no job (by choice) that blended my legal background and my interest in business. My two years of bouncing around allowed me to figure out what I liked about law (contract drafting and negotiating) and what I didn’t (being in a traditional legal role and not working on the business side). I saved up enough money so that I could be unemployed for a little while to find a role that fit those characteristics.
I like my job for simply practical reasons: high pay, decent hours, and people like/respect/promote me. Am I fullfilled by the stimulating nature of my work? Not at all. but it’s a trade off to be able to work on my schedule.
I love my job. I’m an appellate attorney (litigator) in a federal agency. While it is adversarial, it is much less so than trial work. Also, most days I am at my desk researching and writing, which I love (and you say that you liked your clerkship, so you may also enjoy this aspect of appeals work). I totally get how you don’t want to be “wrong” — I would suggest identifying a career coach who can help you map out things you really like (and things about work that you don’t like). Then, have informational interviews with people doing those jobs and really drill them on what they do on a daily basis.
I also think that you should seriously consider staying in law, before just jumping ship off the law altogether. If you know you hate the law entirely that’s one thing, but it doesn’t sound like this is the case for you — you just haven’t found the kind of law job that you like yet. Having gone to HYS, you have so so many opportunities open to you than others don’t. Take advantage of that and figure out what other law jobs you might like better.
I took something I loved and that had been a meaningful experience for me, and then volunteered in it as an undergrad. So I entered my field with a clear sense of what I was getting into. Along the route to my current position, which has always been my goal title, I’ve evaluated what I have and haven’t liked about my then-jobs. For example: research-based internship in college–hated it. I was locked in a room by myself all day and needed more human contact. Job prior to my current one–was largely okay with it, but focused most of my energy on faculty, where I really love working with students. Corrected course to a more student-focused job. Etc.
I like my job. I’m a programmer but not in a bro/startup company. Mostly I work with women, actually, so that’s pretty nice. Low stress for the most part, well-compensated. I don’t mind going to work at all.
I like my gig too. I’m staff counsel at a large insurance company. I generally fight the good fight ( it’s not bi) , love ( some of ) my colleagues, leave a 5, never work weekends, have a 15 minute commute, laugh every day, try small cases ( bench trials) and never get yelled at. Someone who went to HYS would laugh at my salary and cubicle, but life’s too short to dread going to work. I hope you find a better gig soon. Fwiw, me and my non-fancy law degree bounced around for years before finding this gig and I’ll never take it for granted. I had the same fantasy about a car accident. It can be better. I promise.
What is HYS?
Harvard, Yale, Stanford, the three best law schools in the US
Ah, sounds likes that’s the problem then. Overblown expectations of what work actually is.
No definitely not – I was raised very blue collar, and I don’t have any expectations that work is going to be this amazing magical place where I find emotional fulfillment and am overjoyed to be there every single moment. While I haven’t had any other careers, I’ve worked other jobs (part-time work from the time I was 15, full-time work every summer from that point, and a mix of traditional “kid jobs” like service-industry stuff and internships/jobs on campus/etc.). Even the jobs that I look back on quite fondly certainly had their moments of being tiresome and terrible, so I know nothing’s perfect, but I can’t think of a single thing that I like about what I do right now, and I don’t think it’s unrealistic to hope to one day have a job that I don’t dislike every single aspect of. Unless everyone hates their jobs and I just need to get over it and get in line, but from the rest of this thread it doesn’t sound to me like “my job has no redeeming qualities at all” is standard.
I think there’s something to that. To fail, really FAIL, for something for the first time in your late 20s at something you’ve spent you lifetime working on (and being told you’re probably knocking it out of the park along the way), has got to be rough.
The solution: fail early! fail often! Get good at picking yourself up and moving forward.
Maybe the SV mindset helps here: if you haven’t failed, you haven’t tried very hard, either.
It sounds like you might have the same problem I did. I was top of my class in high school, and went on to a super fancy school where I got an impressive sounding degree, and my family (mostly blue collar, or associates degrees to to secretaries, etc) was very very proud of me. I really liked learning about ImpressiveSoundingField. I really like talking about ImpressiveSoundingField. I’m pretty good at ImpressiveSoundingField. But I really don’t like actually doing the tasks required for my field every day. I was having the same “I just want to get a little bit sick, like a broken leg, to require me to stay home from work for a few days/weeks, because I hate going there every day” feelings. And it was really hard to say to my parents “Remember how you went into debt for me to be a ImpressiveJobPerson? And you were so proud when I got a job at BigFancyFortune500Company? Well, I really don’t like being an ImpressiveJobPerson. I don’t like doing it in Setting A, I don’t like doing it in Setting B, or Setting C – I’ve tried all the iterations, and hate it all. In fact, I’m going to take a break and figure out what I want to do, but it’s not going to be being an ImpressiveJobPerson that you brag to your friends about anymore”
I also learned that I’m really good at making my job sound interesting in a short paragraph summary – but in reality, I hate doing the day to day stuff that is necessary for the big picture goal – and because I hate it, I do a pretty half a$$ed job at it.
It’s hard to feel like you let people down, or like you aren’t living up to your potential or teenage dreams of racing up the career ladder. But careers are long, with lots of twists and turns that you never would have anticipated at the beginning. I agree with everyone else that you should see if a different type of law is for you before you give it up altogether – but that in the end, it is ok to give it up. Remember that in the end you are more than a job title.
Can you think of the last thing you did at a job that you liked, or at least didn’t hate? I’m not talking big project “thing”. Its the tiny little details and stupid stuff – like, do you feel good when you cross something off your to-do list? Do you like making color coded to-do lists? Did you enjoy organizing the office supply cabinet as a work study student, or interacting with various people as a waitress?
Sometimes it helps to find the teeny, tiny things that you don’t hate to hold on to in order to get you through the day. For me, it’s making to-do lists and saying “DONE!” as I cross them off. Did I enjoy doing that task? Nope, not at all. But at least I got a minute of satisfaction in saying “done”, and now I’m going home at a reasonable hour to be with my family.
This is me right now. HYS and some years out. I networked as much as I could during a break (coffees or lunches at least twice a week for a couple months, met with three recruiters, sent resumes to friends…) and came up empty. I was trying to go into the nonprofit or government sector but in my city all of those jobs require specific skills. I feel like DC and NYC are more open to hiring for talent rather than specific, applicable skills. I ended up being forced to take a big law position but am now doing transactional work. Too soon to tell, but for what its worth that was an easier sell than any of the public sector jobs in my area.
It’s frustrating because you might find that these jobs really arent out there. But I am excited to have taken a step in another direction at least. And who knows where that could lead?
Other HYS former litigator again.
Also not sure if you have kids yet, but you have a lot more freedom now to explore – not because of financial responsibilities but because any minute I am not at work I want to spend with my daughter. No side projects here or other avenues to explore interests and frankly (sadly) I have dropped much of my pro bono work, at least until she gets a little older… The calculus is different now. On the plus side, work to live not live to work starts to take on a whole new meaning.
If you get out of work at 6:30 and you work at a law firm, you either have the world’s greatest law firm job or you are not performing very well. If the latter, your lack of engagement might be showing and thus you might not be getting good work. My colleague at a top law firm hated her job, I liked mine, all because I got real work and she was stuck doing more menial stuff because her performance wasn’t as good.
tough love, but you sound entitled and immature. you should force yourself to tough out this job (which does not sound all that bad) for at least 2 years before abandoning ship yet again.
+1
It’s not a Biglaw firm, it’s a midsize firm in the suburbs – most folks are out the door between 6 and 6:30, except when on a deadline (when of course hours go out the window). It really is a great law firm job, and I still don’t like the actual job – hence the thinking behind a career change, because I can 100% recognize that it is not normal to have these kinds of feelings about a job that most lawyers would be happy to have.
Get off your high horse. I know plenty, plenty of high-performing people in small, mid, and biglaw that leave work at 6:30 regularly in many cities (the acknowledged exception being NYC).
“If you get out of work at 6:30 and you work at a law firm, you either have the world’s greatest law firm job or you are not performing very well. ”
This is completely absurd. There’s a big wide world of “law firms” that are not NYC big law.
I also disagree with this – i work in DC and i regularly leave the office at 6:30 and could leave earlier, but generally don’t b/c i want to avoid traffic. obviously there are nights where i stay later and i often end up doing some work after i get home, but i don’t think this that much of an exception to be able to leave the office by 6:30 most nights (and i do hit my hours requirement).
While it may be the case that in *your* experience, any lawyer in *your* firm leaving at 6:30 *may* be under performing, it’s not sensible to apply that generally to the entire profession.
I leave work at 5:30 most days and I’m usually the last person in the office.
Another lawyer here (a litigator, even!) and I’m usually the last person when I leave at 6:30. Not every law firm is Skadden NYC.
Depending on what you liked about working in the law, one option to look into might be communications – either corporate PR or crisis communications, which is what I did before becoming a lawyer. We had a lot of ex-lawyers at my firm, and they did things like handle internal and external communications for companies in bankruptcy or help explain to reporters what it meant (and more importantly, what it didn’t mean) when a company was being investigated by a government body. It requires reading, writing, learning about clients and their industries, and talking to people, so a lot of your lawyer skills would be transferable. It was more low-key than my law job is, but still mentally stimulating.
For more than a year I have had almost the exact same thoughts that you are having, even down to the car accident fantasy. I have a HYP undergrad degree and a top-10 law degree and have been in practice 8 years. I have a very good gig for a lawyer – government work, 40-50 hours a week, no billable hour pressure, awesome co-workers, incredible benefits, and low 6-figure salary. And I hate it! It’s not depression and I don’t need therapy (BTDT).
I still do not know what kind of “career” I want next. But I do know that it is okay to not be as conventionally ambitious as my peers. It is okay to give up my law license. It is okay to quit my job without something else lined up. My plan is to take a few months off to travel, and then get a job overseas. I have a few ideas and I am pretty confident of finding something. I no longer have student loans and I have a pretty nice net worth accumulated so I have a bit of a cushion and I can afford to take a steep pay cut for a little while.
I’m not sure if you’re still reading but I just wanted to tell you I relate so much. I have what I think most people would consider a pretty decent law firm job: I work about 45-50 hours a week, the people are nice enough, and I make high 5 figures (in a low cost of living area, where this affords a nice standard of living). But I find my job absolutely soul-crushing and I dread going to work every day in a way I never did when I was in a crazy 65-70 hour a week Big Law job working with a lot of jerks (but making a lot more money). My husband and I are hopefully going to have a child soon so I plan to quit my job when my first kid is born, take a nice long maternity leave and then figure out what I want to, whether that’s part-time legal work or going back to school or something else. We’re fortunate enough that my husband has a good job and we can survive on his income alone if necessary. I very much want to change careers completely to something like writing (travel writing, especially) but I do feel some guilt about the fact that I will have practiced law for only about 6 years if I leave now. I personally think those 6 years were pretty productive since I paid off my law school education and saved a bunch of money, giving me the financial freedom to pursue my dreams. But I feel like people will really judge me if I give up completely on a degree I got so recently. Anyway, you have my sympathies and I hope you find a job you can tolerate better. Hugs.
Anyone have suggestions for ANKLE rain boots? A little higher than ankle is ok too, but not calf-length. All of the calf-length rain boots I have tried on are floppy and huge on me and make it uncomfortable to walk (even the ones advertised for narrow calves). Now I’m wondering if I’m just better off with ankle-length. Thanks!
Hunter has some nice short boots I love
Do they need to specifically be rain boots? Get a pair of Chelsea boots with a good tread and go to town with waterproofing/ protection spray.
has some nice leather ankle all-weather boots
Cole Haan has some waterproof ankle boots/Chelsea-style boots. They aren’t rainboots, but purportedly waterproof.
+1.
IME, anything labeled “waterproof” at Cole Haan is, in fact, 100% waterproof.
LL Bean has their Bean Boots in various lengths. I have the tall shearling lined ones, and love them. FWIW, the lace up feature makes the boot shaft more adjustable over my skinny calves so there isn’t any flopping, and the shearling would be a nice fuzzy cushion even if flopping occurred.
Tretorn has some cute ones.
Loeffler Randall makes amazing ankle rain boots!
2nd try to post this re: alarm clocks. Want it so much. http://www.pbteen.com/products/emily-meritt-bunny-alarm-clock/?pkey=cclocks-phones&&cclocks-phones
I love PBTeen. Glad to see I’m not the only adult with that problem.
I love it, too. I routinely check out the duvets and quilts to see if there’s anything I can’t live without. God forbid an adult want some bed linens with a color other than blue, brown, or ivory!
As a tall girl I can’t stand shrunken Blazers. They might look adorable on someone 5’4″ but put one on me and I look like I just couldn’t find a big enough blazer (yeah, even in the tall sizes, because they’re still made to look too small as part of the whole shrunken thing)
What happened to long blazers? I thought they were coming back. That’s how I was planning to tour the facility.
I hear that the long blazer is also quite useful when you need to pick up some slack.
Y’all win the interwebs today.
<3
Yes. I don’t know what happened to long blazers, or even regular blazers with :gasp: full length sleeves, but I agree. Let’s hope the shrunken blazer trend is on its way out. No advice; just commiseration.
I think that Theory has the long blazers.
http://www.theory.com/DALINGWOOD/F1009106,default,pd.html?dwvar_F1009106_color=001&start=6&cgid=womens-jackets-coats
J Crew’s new Heritage blazer is supposed to be on the longer side. Haven’t tried it in person.
I’m wondering if these shrunken blazers would look better with dresses than pants – just like many dresses look better with shorter cardigans.
But yes, as a long waisted person who is plus sized, a lot of the short blazers just make me look like I’m playing “fat man in a little coat”
Has anyone hired an errand runner/personal assistant? I would like to outsource a lot of my personal to-do list (post office, grocery shopping, etc) and am wondering the best way to find someone to do these tasks. I’ve considered posting on Craigslist but find that a little more roulette-like than I prefer. I signed up on Care.com, but they send ONE MILLION EMAILS (even when you unsubscribe from the unnecessary ones, then they send “administrative” ones that you can’t opt out), plus there’s a monthly fee, and I think I only need this to hire the one person. Is there another service I’m missing? I’m in a smallish city that doesn’t seem to have a business specifically designed for this, so I think I’m looking for a way to find a private individual. Thanks for any advice!
All over this thread today (hello procrastination!). Is task rabbit available in your city?
Task Rabbit would be perfect– I think my city is too small, as we don’t have it. (Yet?)
Thumbtack is another option similar to Taskrabbit – you post a job and they send you five bids – and it’s used by wedding photographers, plumbers, etc. so it might be worth seeing if it’s in your city.
TaskRabbit
I was a part-time personal assistant in law school (doing exactly what you’ve described) & I found the job on Craigslist.
For grocery delivery: Google Express? Amazon Pantry? Peapod?
Yea, grocery delivery could probably be arranged separately. We have a local chain in the Midwest (HyVee) that provides grocery delivery for free, but many stores will also do this for a fee. No help on the other tasks, except maybe posting on a college job board.
In the UK most of our big grocery store chains do delivery and it’s amazing.
I did, and it changed my life. When I moved from a government job to a law firm, I was worried about spending all my free time doing errands. I posted a short job description at a nearby community center that has a lot of activities for senior citizens. I hired “Eloise” (not her real name) when she was 68 years old and retired from her job as a high-level corporate executive’s assistant. She grocery-shopped and put away the groceries, selected gifts and wrapped them, went to the post office, dry cleaner’s and did similar errands, and was overall just a bright light in my life. (I don’t know what she told restaurants when she made reservations for me, but I always had the best table in the house.) She had no children and I had no family nearby, and I think she thought of me as her special project. We were together for 13 years until she retired to Florida. She has now passed away and I miss her every day.
This is very sweet!
You have just described my dream solution. She is like a domestic angel!
Is there a local college? Look with their career services.
Of course I’m last minute, but what is everyone handing out for Halloween? For some reason I feel like I want to do something other than candy, but last year I just left a basket out so I’m not quite sure how many kids I might get. And my mom used to handle it before that.
Honest question, not snark: Why would you not hand out candy? I thought that was what trick or treating was all about. If you’re worried about having leftovers, just bring it to the office and put a bowl out in the breakroom, problem solved.
I think I should have phrased my question a little differently. Really what I was meaning to ask was what were you giving out in addition to candy, if you chose to go tat way. I’m all about the candy, and I’m sure someone would finish it.
I’m handing out candy. I got full sized candy bars because I live in an apartment building and expect to see less than a dozen kids.
I’m handing out candy. But I also have small children and in addition to candy, they also like to get fruit snacks, pretzels, popcorn, little containers of bubbles, glow sticks, temporary tattoos, stickers. Of course, the dentist in our neighborhood hands out toothbrushes!
Candy. Tons of candy.
I’m all for healthy living, but there are other days in the year for that.
I’m handing out tons and tons of candy. I get 200+ trick or treaters when Halloween is on a week night. I can’t remember how many I got last time it fell on a Saturday but I’m sure it was a lot more.
We get the big bags of mini chocolate bars – snickers, kit kats, etc.
No way can I do the team pumpkin thing with this many treaters. But you might do that if you want to change it up. I believe they recommend non-candy treats.
*teal not team
Candy. I love the idea of making homemade sweets but I fear no parents will let their kids eat them and they’ll just go to waste.
When I was a kid, a neighbor used to let kids grab change out of her change jar on Halloween. I loved that & it’s a good way to not have to run an errand . . .
Along with candy we give kids the option to take Play Do – we got a big variety pack. This is great for kids that are really too young for 95% of the candy haul they’ll get and we discovered years ago it’s a HUGE hit with all ages.
I know this is a dumb question, but just to confirm, if I max out my 401k before the year is over, will my employer automatically stop funding it and pay me the amount instead? I have mine sent to automatically deduct a % of every paycheck, and I wanted to overestimate just to make sure I would max out.
yes.
The 401K max is how much YOU can contribute. Your + employer contributions for 2015 have to be less than $53K or your salary. (For further reading: http://20somethingfinance.com/maximum-employer-401k-contribution/)
Recommendations for a cleaning service / team in Boston? Someone that can do a deep clean every month. I can handle the day to day but don’t like dusting, baseboards, cleaning out appliances. Also, how much should I expect to pay? One bedroom ~700 sq ft apartment in the South End.
Before I moved down to Tampa, I’d used Handy a few times. Here’s my referral link – you should get a discount for your first booking. 2 hours should be enough time. r.handy.com/r?u=BOBBI-SUE9418&dms=1