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Updated: Nov 1, 2018 300 Comments · by

Thursday’s TPS Report: Sleeveless Shift Dress

The Personal Shopper (TPS)

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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. TAHARI ARTHUR S. LEVINE CLASSICS Sleeveless Shift Dress Sometimes, you just want a great basic… like this sleeveless shift dress in navy, available in sizes 2-16. Love the vertical seaming, the scoop neckline (flattering!) and the thick straps. This is $109.99 at Lord & Taylor, but code MOM brings it down to $88. TAHARI ARTHUR S. LEVINE CLASSICS Sleeveless Shift Dress Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-2)

Sales of note for 9.30.24

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Comments

  1. Anonymous

    Treadjack – I’m debating whether or not to get a glycolic acid peel done for my acne. My esthetician told me that she normally schedules them for 5-6 consecutive treatments. This seems excessive to me, not to mention could possibly harm my skin more than it’s helping it. Have you had one done? What were the results? Would you do it again? Thanks!

    • Anonsensical

      I’ve had really good luck with glycolic peels. I was able to get my hands on the glycolic products myself and did peels at home once a week for 6 weeks. Not sure, but I think I used a 10% solution. Maybe 15%. I started with a 3-minute peel, which was more than enough (my face was really red for most of the day, and a little tender, but totally normal the next day), and I upped the time in1 or 2 minute increments until I was at 8 or so for the last one. I also used a glycolic cleanser once a day for about 6 months, and was really happy with the results. That was about 3 years ago, and I still use the cleanser when I have flare-ups or my skin is just looking kinda dull.

    • momentsofabsurdity

      Have you ever done a peel yourself? If your breakouts aren’t serious (mine were just annoying, clustered on my forehead) I do the Philosophy Microdelivery Peel once a week and it really does keep my skin clear. Not sure if it would work for more severe acne though.

      • anonny

        I’ve had in-office peels by the aesthetician at my derm’s office (she would do once every4-6 weeks or so) and used the Philosophy oxygen peel when I couldn’t get in. Seemed like the Philosophy one was stronger than the professional stuff to be honest.

        I finally quit with all the peels though and made an appointment with one of the doctors. She prescribed a gel that I use every night now (epiduo) and nicotinadin (sp?), which is a supplement (Rx) that is supposed to help with reducing swelling and redness. Acne is totally gone now. Which I had seen the doc a lot sooner. I wasted a lot of money on microderms and peels along the way.

    • Leslie

      I have not tried that. Several years ago I had ClearLight treatment done. It is a laser. You pretty much just sit under a lamp (looks like a dentist lamp) for 20 min (take a nap!) twice a week for 4 weeks. It was amazing! Really cleared it up, no side affects – not red, not dry, nothing. I could tell a difference after about a week. I highly recommend it!

    • anon

      I think my esthetician schedules between 2 and 4 – but I really have no idea. Just wanted to give a shout out to my new favorite product, Kate Somerville Exfolikate. I have acne and discoloration from old breakouts and using this product once a week is almost as good as a facial (and my esthetician gives amazing facials). I bought the $20 size from Sephora to try it out and it lasts quite a while. Not the same result as a peel, but if you’re on the fence about the peel, I recommend trying this first.

  2. b23

    If I could undo any four seconds of my month, it would be yesterday when I was in a hurry, grabbed a receipt off of my kitchen island, and knocked the bright blue lit candle onto my fairly new, $500, lovely sea grass rug. Uuuugggghhhh. SO FRUSTRATING.

    Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get it out? It’s not paraffin wax that you can just peel off. It’s sort of an oily wax (homemade candle). And it got into all of the crevices of the rug. And it is Bright.Blue.

    • K in... Transition

      yes! get paper towel (plain colored) and put it over the hard wax. Then iron the paper towel. Keep the iron moving (as if you were ironing clothes) and the wax will melt and stick to the paper towel. Once you do this, remove the towel, let what’s left harden, and repeat… do this over and over and it should lift it all or close to it!

      • K in... Transition

        PS consider what your rug is made of when choosing the heat setting so you don’t melt the carpet… you can probably spray the carpet with a bit of water first to help protect it from the heat :)

      • Bluejay

        No, don’t iron a paper towel. Do it with a real towel that you don’t mind ruining. My mom got confused once and used a paper towel, and the resulting fire was way worse than the original wax spill.

        • K in... Transition

          I’ve only ever done it with a paper towel on low heat… so glad your mom’s ok!

        • anon

          You can also use a hair dryer instead of an iron – that way it is hot enough to melt the wax, but no fire danger!

    • Fiona

      This happened to me once, and I followed Martha Stewart’s advice to take a section of brown paper bag, place it over the candle mess, and press it with an iron. The bag will get waxy and you’ll have to switch it with fresh bag every few minutes. It takes forever, but it actually worked!

      • Sadie

        this is what I do, brown paper bag. Make sure there’s no writing on it. Low heat. Worked on shaggy carpet AND on my couch.

    • TCFKAG

      Consider that if you bought it with an Amex or certain other cards, they may replace it or repair it if it is within a certain time frame (I think it may cover even accidental damage…though you’d have to check).

    • TNT

      I would try cold before heat.

      Put ice in a plastic bag and set it over the wax for as long as you can then see how much of it will flake off. (I have used a plastic spoon to scrape before). Keep icing and scraping until you’ve gotten all you can off. Then use the heat methods above.

    • LR

      If for some reason none of these methods work, I took a scrub brush (like a nail brush) and very gently scrubbed my woven sisal rug after lightly spraying it with a mixture of water and dish soap. This wasn’t for candle wax but something much, much more unpleasant from my dog. It took a few attempts over the course of a week but there’s no trace of the accident now.

    • Batgirl

      I did the iron method on wood floors–using a brown paper bag. You have to keep it moving quickly and on a low setting, but it worked amazingly well on the floors. Good luck!

  3. springtime

    After reading all of the J Crew talk yesterday…I scoped the site out and found the jeans I’ve been curious about for awhile now- the J Crew high waisted skinny jeans. Does anyone know how they fit? I will need them in tall, if that changes anything. TIA!

    • Cb

      I’m curious too! I just donated my last pair of jeans because I’m sick of them falling off my hips after an hour or two.

    • Anon

      I had the black version and the cord version. I find that they are a little too tight in the crotch area, no matter the size, and I always had a camel issue. I only wore them with long tops. I love J.Crew, but the black ones went in the trash after a few months. Even with careful laundering they turned gray and lost their shape. I still love the cord version, but it’s much harder to see the issue I mentioned above in those.

  4. K in... Transition

    SO wishing I wasn’t too pear-shaped for shift dresses, they always look so effortlessly classy when worn by others!

    That said, I’m officially back in Ohio, got in on Mon night and have spent the past 2 days (and many more to come) clearing out a house I’m living in that was inherited by a relative… many original items from the house purchase in 1956, lots of cleaning/dusting/etc. oy! job interview today and one next week so far. Heaven help me to find my interview clothes in the packing! Not only that, but many of my household items were left at mom’s when I moved to Miami and I can’t retrieve them. (The attached house next door burnt down last week causing smoke damage in mom’s house and insurance says nothing can go out til they’re done with their process.) So now I’m spending $ I don’t have buying goodwill bedding/towels/dishes/etc. What a process! (or rather… FOOEY!)

    PS For those who’ve asked me to let folks know when I’m officially at the Ohio address, consider this the announcement. Much as I’m not used to being taken care of in any way, there’s something really humbling and lovely about being a bit of a pet project around here between the emotional support and the wardrobe support. You guys really are the best ever Ever EVER!

    • Lucy

      Congratulations on your emerging new life! It sounds really promising – new space, interviews, new outlook. I am really, really proud of you and as I’m facing a bunch of changes and possible move in my near-to-middle future, I am looking to you as a model. No pressure. :p

    • momentsofabsurdity

      K – Congratulations! I’m glad you’re there and starting to get settled in. Good luck at the job interview!

    • SF Bay Associate

      Good luck, K. You’re not a pet project. You’re our (virtual) friend. And keep an eye out for cool stuff in that 1956 house – there may be eBay-able or even Antiques Roadshow type stuff in there. You never know…

      And document the heck out of all communications with the insurance company. They may even hurry it up a little if you ask nicely and explain why.

    • NOLA

      Good luck on the interview! I’m sure you’ll knock ’em dead even if you can’t find that perfect interview outfit.

    • Susan

      K, Congrats on the move, and good luck with the interviews!

      You’re not a pet project, you’re our friend! :-)

  5. Always a NYer

    This dress is gorgeous, a classic wardrobe staple. How I wish I still lived near a Lord and Taylor…

  8. Godzilla

    I left my phone at home today. And one of my coworker’s said I have allergyface. *rawr* *grumble* *sulk* *sigh*

    • Susan

      I wish Ashley Judd had a batphone, so we could call her and have her school these idiots for making such comments.

      • Godzilla

        OMG I abused the apostrophe. Today is a no good, terrible, horrible, very bad day.

        Also, I love your comments. I always pay attention to what you have to say.

        • Susan

          Thanks, Godzilla! You have a unique (and very fun) voice here.

          There are times when I kinda like the greengrocer’s apostrophe. My DH used to live near an open air market and I loved seeing: “Banana’s” and “Eggplant’s”. It fed into the whole idea that the open air market wasn’t corporate, shiny, and antiseptic.

          There were also some very intellectual farmers there, and I wondered whether they purposely employed the greengrocer’s apostrophe specifically to add to the “charm.”

          Somehow, this is making me hungry for fresh produce!

          • Van Gogh

            My local grocery store always has grammatical wonders. All of last summer, they had a sign that said

            PLEASE DO NOT PEEL THE “CORN”

          • b23

            I read a case a while back that said a crazy guy poured “holy water” over “crab legs” at the grocery store. I get that they put holy water in quotes because it wasn’t really holy, but were the crab legs not really crab legs? What were they?????

          • IBL

            Ummm I feel like I wouldn’t want to buy corn from there if they put it in quotes!

          • TNT

            I’m allergic to crab and sometimes use the surimi products when I want to have something like it, and don’t feel like paying for lobster….you may think it’s “blecch” to me it’s nice to have the alternative.

          • mamabear

            Not to beat a dead horse but I thought they boiled that imitation crab with real crab shells to give it crab-like color and flavor? One of my good friends is allergic to crab and she says she can’t eat that either.

          • reply to mamabear

            My DH is SO allergic to shelfish that if something has touched shelfish and he eats that something he’s in trouble. Crab causes him immediate reaction. He can, however, eat imitation crab. Strange but true.

            As a side note, I’m not sure why the “reply” link is not appearing under 5th level posters.

      • a.

        Agreed. I want Ashley Judd on speed dial so she can school all the fools I encounter in my daily life.

        Godzilla, would it be a better day if you went and swatted down some skyscrapers? I find that always makes me feel better.

    • Bluejay

      I also have allergyface, and neglected to use my nasal spray before leaving the house. And my eyes are puffed to twice their usual size.

  9. Non-mom

    Thanks for those of you with camp suggestions! A lot of great options and I passed them on to my SO. I still think it’s totally unfair that as a working adult I can’t go to camp for two weeks this summer..

    Crossing my fingers that something works out — I’m trying to be helpful without being pushy and meddling — which is hard for a pro-active ‘fixer’ type like myself. Both of them want her to have friends here and something interesting to do when she visits, but he’s being amazingly passive about it.

    • KLG

      Haha, I’m a newish stepmom and have quickly become the “administrator” for stepdaughter’s stuff. Admittedly we have more custody now that I am around than he did before me but he just doesn’t think ahead about things like that. He was like “we need to find childcare for the weeks we have her during the summer.” I mentioned day camp. He did nothing. I sent links to daycamp and noted the cost in the email. He did nothing. The other night he freaked out that school is almost over and “we” don’t have a plan. I was like “Did you read my email?” Um, no. He is a fantastic dad when she is with us and never misses practices or games but his parents were super hands off and this stuff just never occurs to him until the last minute.

      • Non-mom

        Hah! That would probably be us if he/we had her with us on any regular schedule. But since any time with her has to go through her mom, it’s extra tricky.

        As it is now, I plan a good amount of the stuff they/we do when she’s here — usually she’d visit for a week or so and he’d take off work, but she (with her mom) is moving from several states away to about an hour and a half away. So her visits are going to go from ‘ a week vacation with dad’ to (hopefully) weekends with dad, where having friends would make it a lot more interesting for a 13 year old.

  10. Salit-a-gator

    TJ: Any recommendations for comfortable walking shoes? I’m going on vacation and expect to be walking or on my feet 10+ hrs a day – think big European city. The problem I’m having is picking something that will go with both shorts and with sundresses. Most of the comfortable shoes I’ve found are too clunky to be worn with sundresses. Any recommendations?

    • HM

      Check out clarksusa . com Their Privo collection will probably have some stylish yet comfortable option.

    • Godzilla

      I’m on my feet a lot and I really like Hush Puppies and Earth Origins. Bare Traps also has some cute styles.

    • Anon

      I don’t have a good answer, but I was wondering the same thing!

      I was thinking a pair of comfortable espadrille flats could do the trick

    • Bluejay

      Toms or toms-like flats? I have the gatas shoes from Lands’ End. They have memory foam and are super comfortable for long walks.

    • a passion for fashion

      Born flats. They are really comfortable and you can find pretty cute ones these days. I found a pair at the rack for about 59 bucks.

    • mamabear

      Check out barkingdogshoes. She has posts just like this, pretty frequently. Her latest Facebook post recommended Chacos sandals, a brand I haven’t tried.

      • rosie

        I love Chaco sandals, but I do not know if they will be nice enough looking for OP’s purposes. They are amazingly comfortable, and all the straps adjust. I usually have a day or two at the beginning of each Chaco season where I have to get used to how the straps wear/rub, so if you are planning to walk a lot in a pair, try to wear them around a bit beforehand to adjust.

    • Jules

      I totally love the Figi sandal from J-41. I wore them on a trip to Ireland/N. Ireland and walked most of the day in them the very first time I wore them, and no sore feet at all. (Sore feet have nearly ruined other vacations for me.) I’ve got two colors (brown and black, although it looks like zappos now has charcoal instead of brrown) and only barely resisted getting the nude also. They run a tiny bit large (think a half size down). They’ve got a nice platform and looked good with dresses and pants; I’ve also worn them with long-ish shorts (oxymoron?). I’ll post the link separately.

      You might think about taking two pairs of walking shoes, maybe one pair of flats and one with more of a heel. Even with the most comfortable shoes, you can get little trouble spots over the course of a long day, and it helps to be able to switch off to a different pair.

    • CPA to be

      I might get horribly judged for this answer… but crocs makes a cute (as far as crocs go) and very comfy slingback ballet flat called the “Kadee.” I had two pairs of these when I worked in a restaurant, and they are so incredibly comfortable for long days on your feet. They come in a million colors, and you can just wash them off when they get dirty. They are usually around $30.

      • V

        I have the black flat-with-open-work-near-the-heel (but not the slingback style) Crocs and cannot tell you how comfy they are (and I have some neuroma / other foot drama). I played tennis in them a few weeks ago (crazy, yes) and they did astonishly well (no blisters, good foot-gripping without being constrictive, did not come off feet).

      • Susan

        Out of curiosity, I googled these (Kadee ballet flats) and they’re really cute and affordable.

        I confess, I don’t understand the hatred against Crocs. I mean, there are some shoes in their line that look really bad to me, or look like they’re not really appropriate on grownups, but that’s not all they have.

    • CA Atty

      I don’t know if you’re trying to pack light which would make this recommendation not work, but I advise taking two pairs of shoes you can wear interchangeably. I backpacked in Ireland for a week and actually bought a pair of cheap light sneakers that I could trade out with my other shoes. It was worth having to carry shoes around. I was in Europe for 5 more weeks after that and was SO glad I could change my shoes out and let one pair “rest.” I ended up throwing away the cheap light sneakers when I left because by then they were so beat up I would never have worn them again anyway.

      • zora

        This. It makes a huge difference to wear a different pair of shoes each day. All shoes have different pressure points, and when you switch shoes, your feet feel much more rested. Have fun on your trip!!!!

    • Marie Curie

      I have a pair of Pedro García sandals that I love, but they are not cheap.

    • gina

      Converse. Get them in a summery cream or pink or yellow and they can work with many dresses as well as shorts.

      • IVO

        I would alternate a day of a flat (and comfortable) sandal, and a day of Converse All-Stars or Keds or similar “not-for-exercising” sneakers. Also, since you will be in Europe, it has been my experience that it is much more common there to see “stylish” peeps wearing sundresses or skirts and All-Stars.

    • cbackson

      I have cute flat maryjanes from Miz Mooz that I bought for a similar purpose.

  12. TCFKAG

    Do any of you read the Dear Prudence chat on WaPo? Yesterday a woman wrote in who is, in her own words, generally tomboyish, and that she doesn’t pay too much attention to her appearance (and that her workplace is casual and she doesn’t need to get all dressed up). While out shopping with her boyfriend, he (after some passive aggressive stuff) offered to buy her more feminine clothes and make up and make up application lessons. Prudie’s advice was, in short, “go for it” before Stacy London gets called in.

    Now — we’ve talked in fair length on this site about tomboys and professional dressing (and I’ve known some “butch” straight and lesbian women who were very snazzy dressers). But the part about that letter that really bugged me was that the boyfriend was pushing her into “feminine” clothes and make-up, not just neater clothes or more professional clothes. I don’t know, the whole thing game me a manageing partner creeper feel that really turned me off and I couldn’t believe Prudie blew right by it. I had to share it with the hive!

    Also, attn: Marebella — Ann Taylor’s spring cocktail/bridesmaid dress line has a few dresses in a chiffon type fabric in a nice lavender (though they’re a bit above your price point, they were also cute…if you’re still looking.) There’s one one-shoulder option I especially like.

    • Lyssa

      I didn’t really read it that way at all. It doesn’t bother me that a straight man would appreciate a feminine-looking appearance on a woman, and I don’t see any problem with him politely saying that. I also didn’t read his initial suggestions to be passive-agressive at all (it said that they were shopping and he was suggesting feminine clothing to her).

      There’s certainly a point where a boyfriend/girlfriend tries to “change” the other person in a way that is controlling and unhealthy, but I don’t think just saying that you would appreciate certain minor and superficial things is there. People attach too much significance to how a person dresses- she’s not changing herself as a person just because she puts on a pretty dress that she might not have initially been drawn to. I certainly point out to my husband when he dresses in a way that I find attractive (I like tight-ish shirts that show off the pecs), and he’s happy to oblige.

      • TCFKAG

        But, presumably the BF knew what his girlfriend looked like and dressed like before they started dating, right? I mean — if you want to be date a girl who wears flirty dresses and is feminine, dating a tomboy who hates clothes isn’t the way to go!

  13. TCFKAG

    Arrrgh, moderation for a stray c*cktail at the last sentence of an opus!!!

    Do any of you read the Dear Prudence chat on WaPo? Yesterday a woman wrote in who is, in her own words, generally tomboyish, and that she doesn’t pay too much attention to her appearance (and that her workplace is casual and she doesn’t need to get all dressed up). While out shopping with her boyfriend, he (after some passive aggressive stuff) offered to buy her more feminine clothes and make up and make up application lessons. Prudie’s advice was, in short, “go for it” before Stacy London gets called in.
    Now — we’ve talked in fair length on this site about tomboys and professional dressing (and I’ve known some “butch” straight and lesbian women who were very snazzy dressers). But the part about that letter that really bugged me was that the boyfriend was pushing her into “feminine” clothes and make-up, not just neater clothes or more professional clothes. I don’t know, the whole thing game me a manageing partner creeper feel that really turned me off and I couldn’t believe Prudie blew right by it. I had to share it with the hive!
    Also, attn: Marebella — Ann Taylor’s spring c*cktail/bridesmaid dress line has a few dresses in a chiffon type fabric in a nice lavender (though they’re a bit above your price point, they were also cute…if you’re still looking.) There’s one one-shoulder option I especially like.

    • cfm

      It was Monday’s chat. I def would be a little resistent, but if I flip it on its head, I have def tried to influence my SO style in a similar way. He used to dress really kind of bad, not polished, tailored or crisp. So I def did kind of that “why dont we try…” Many people, men and women, equate feminine with polished for woman. I think almost by definition, neater or more professional clothes are going to be more feminine. (Pants suits that fit well, shirts/blouses mad for women, dresses, etc)

      I guess what I’m saying is I can def see why Prudie read it that way and I did as well, because she said she was a tomboy. If she was saying I prefer pants and my bf wants me in skirts, I’d read it the way you did. But when I think tomboy, I’m thinking like men’s shirts, really bagging unfitted pants, etc.

      • TCFKAG

        Hmm…that’s true. I’ve also attempted (unsuccessfully) to impact my hubbies style. It has mostly consisted of trying to get him a casual blazer…which he refuses. lol.

        I guess maybe I was misreading feminine to mean flowers, and pink, and dresses and skirts. Its possible this letter writer views all dress clothes as feminine. Maybe I lack info. But it would definitely get my spidey senses up!

        (Also, one of my favorite work outfits is black slacks, a button down shirt and a sweater vest. Its so boyish but I love it. I hated it early in the campaign trail when Santorum was all over his sweater vest thing, bc I was like “back off buddy, that’s mine!” haha).

    • Bluejay

      I read that. I didn’t think it sounded like the boyfriend was really pushing her, but more like gently nudging. It’s hard to tell from a short letter what she really dresses like. I mean, I have colleagues who are tomboyish and always wear pants suits and ponytails, but they’re well-tailored suits and neat ponytails. If she’s like that, it seems inappropriate to push her to change her style. But if her idea of tomboyish dressing is loose-fitting clothes, t-shirts in the office, and sneakers every day, then perhaps what her boyfriend means by “feminine” is really just more tailored and dressy. And it’s definitely been my experience that dressing inappropriately in the workplace will harm your career progression, so I didn’t get any creeper vibe from it. Also, maybe I’m old fashioned or something, but I feel like I want to look good for my boyfriend so if he wanted me to dress a certain way (within reason), it wouldn’t bother me.

    • rosie

      Although I read “feminine” to be more professional and neat looking, the make up thing seemed a little odd to me. In my opinion, suggesting that she buy some nicer clothes and suggesting that she get makeup lessons (and presumably start wearing make up regularly) are totally different levels, and I think I would react pretty differently if my SO made those two suggestions.

    • mamabear

      Depends. I didn’t see the discussion, but don’t you find sometimes women wish they were more dressed up and/or polished, but are kind of embarrassed to make a big, sudden transition? I know several, personally. So if that’s the case and Prudie was trying to push her past that self-consciousness, then I think it was good advice.

      For anyone who might be reading that shares the same reluctance- go for it. People will only be aurprised for a couple of days, then go back to thinking about their favorite topic = themselves.

      • Jennifer

        This is great advice. I often wish I could tell me middle/school/high school/college self that!

      • CA Atty

        This was definitely me. And my mom (probably where I got it from!). Then in college my roommates “helped” with my makeup that my teammates then criticized so I gave up altogether. Finally my little sister was like “um, duh, here’s what you do.” And I have taken a makeup lesson and gotten the makeup counter makeover (which was horrible! But I don’t remember where it was, maybe JC Penney’s or Sears even!)

        BUT (the point) my SO has far far better taste than I do and an amazing eye for clothes. I love shopping with him for clothes, jewelry, anything that has to do with color for the home, etc… I have been extremely leery of some of his suggestions in the past, and at least three things that I would never have even have tried on have become wardrobe staples.

    • DC Jenny

      That question definitely got my hackles up, but then I think What Not to Wear is an awful show. I would never give someone fashion advice (not even my bf, who is far from a fashion plate) unless they asked for it. I might make an exception if someone came to me upset that their career was stalled out and I thought wardrobe was playing a factor, but that’s it.

    • Diana Barry

      I was also annoyed by this. From the LW’s tone, it seemed like the BF was trying to pressure her to dress a certain way, which I fanwank means that he’s trying to push her into dressing more like his ideal woman, which says to me that he doesn’t like her the way she is. Odd.

      I do make my husband wear more dressed-up clothes sometimes, but not because I love him any less when he’s wearing his thinkgeek t-shirts!

      • Totes McGotes

        I don’t think there’s anything wrong with trying to help someone you love be their best self – I think I’d be more concerned if it became a persistent thing.

        My BF is a thinkgeek type too (long hair, wardrobe largely consisting of ancient concert t-shirts, gamer/thinkgeek t-shirts, and cargo pants), and I know of more than one occasion where he has been negatively impacted professionally by judgments about his appearance. He couldn’t see this at all because he is one of those wonderful, rare people who honestly expects to be judged solely on his experience and intellect and is shocked – truly shocked! – if the condition of his t-shirt or whether he shaved that day becomes part of the evaluation.

        Thus, I have gradually been “nudging” his style over the past few years. I wouldn’t dream of touching his tendency to wear a wallet chain even with a suit (that’s a signature move!), but I’ve gotten him to store away anything that has even tiny holes in it (no one will care that you bought that shirt at your very first concert). I’ve also integrated items such as polo shirts in great fabrics (he is very tactile) and shoes that nod to his style but are nicer quality and more upscale in design. I’m trying to help him upgrade himself, not make him into someone he isn’t. It sounds to me that this guy is trying to do the same thing.

    • Susan

      I wish we could trail this couple with a hidden camera for a number of weeks and send them out on several shopping trips to see what’s really going on. The only way I can comfortably get a read on these things is to see the tone, the body language and the manner, which of course isn’t available in an Agony Aunt column.

    • Ruta Skadi

      I think it doesn’t bother me all that much because I could see myself wanting my fiance to dress in a more “masculine” way if, say, he went around in skater pants and baggy t-shirts like a 16 year old from 1995 all the time . It’s just my personal preference. I also wouldn’t feel out of place in gently suggesting to him that he get a haircut , etc. I can’t really think of a masculine equivalent of makeup, but frankly a lot of women have absolutely no compunction of (sometimes very rudely) asking their male partners to change their style, so it kind of seems unfair to assume the boyfriend in this scenario was pressuring her to dress a certain way because he doesn’t like who she is, especially as her letter doesn’t really state anything about him being cruel about it. At the end of the day, clothes are a great form of self expression but they’re not who you *are*. I hate beyond all reason some items of clothing my fiance has and loves. But do I hate him or have a problem with him when he’s in them? Absolutely not. And if he were to wear them 24-7, I’d probably be asking him to maybe change things up a little as well.

      • mamabear

        That’s true. If I complain about my husband’s ugly shoes and I buy him new ones and say, “here, wear these!” I get a you-go-girl from my girlfriends. (not that my husband wears ugly shoes. I have mentioned before that he’s a peacock.)

        But if my husband were to do the same to or for me, it would be him somehow repressing me? I don’t think so.

  14. S

    I got a pair of Patagonia T-strap sandals last year that are stylish, not clunky at all and comfortable for walking. Look for the Bandha sandal on their website.

  15. Tutor for MBE?

    One of my close friends has failed the NY bar twice. She is smart, hardworking, and capable, and I think the issue is that she hasn’t quite “figured out” the MBE. I am considering offering to pay for a few sessions with a real-life tutor to help her crack the code. Has anyone done this, and do you have any recommendations for people in the NYC/Long Island area? She’s done BarBri twice, and she has Kaplan MBE books to work out of, but I think a personal trainer may be helpful, especially considering that group classes and mass resources didn’t do it for her the first two times.

    • rosie

      I don’t have a tutor recommendation, but another course suggestion–I used MicroMash for both state and MBE bar prep, and their MBE prep was amazing (the state materials leave something to be desired). I scored high enough that I was able to not retake the MBE when I sat for a second bar. They have an online question bank that just worked really well for me. I think you can demo it or do a trial period if you/she wants to check it out.

    • cfm

      I would not offer to pay unless you are sure that it would go over fine. I’m guessing you are a lawyer too? I just can’t imagine being in her position and feeling good about that. I think I would find it condescending.

      • Always a NYer

        Offering to pay can put one in a sticky situation but I don’t see the OP wanting to help her friend condescending at all. She’s looking at different options that could possibly work for her friend, which I don’t think is coming from a high and mighty place. The offer to pay is nice, a gift. Obviously, she wouldn’t do it unless it were okay with her friend, but who knows, she may appreciate it. If not, she’ll know that her friend really cares for her and only wants to help any way she can.

        • cfm

          No I agree, the offer to help is really nice and thoughful. I just think the offer itself could come off wrong, especially whe the friend has failed twice and the OP has (i’m guessing) passed. Its a wonderful thought I just imagine that if I had failed twice I’d be in a defensive state, I might be more likely to be insulted than normal.

    • Bluejay

      I think it could come off as condescending. However, if she’s specifically mentioned that the MBE is a challenge for her or the reason she failed, it would probably be nice to give her the sessions as a gift. Instead of offering to pay – which most people would say no to, especially if they knew the cost – can you give her a gift certificate for it, perhaps with a card? Personally, receiving something as a gift would seem less condescending to me than being asked if I would like someone to pay for something for me.

    • Another Sarah

      I had to take the bar 3 times, and I agree with everyone above that it may come off as condescending if you offer to pay for a tutor, unless you are her parent(s). Egos are extremely fragile around barzam-results-time, especially if the news isn’t good more than once. I would know my friend’s heart was in the right place, but it wouldn’t lessen the sting if they tried to pitch in for a bar tutor.

      That said, my issue was also with the MBE (my essays were almost perfect…but not perfect enough I suppose…). I got a pretty good repeater deal from Kaplan, where I got 10hrs of tutoring free. With the tutor, and doing between 50-75 MBE questions every day for about 8 weeks, I passed.

  16. Anonsensical

    Budget fail. Swore not to buy anything but true necessities until my next check hits. Can I go 10 measly days without shopping? No! No, I have to buy shoes on a whim this morning. Granted, they were only $30 and had been previously sold out in my size but I’ve been watching the site in the hopes of a return and, lo and behold, there they were, the only pair! But still. I’m so mad at myself for my lack of willpower.

    • b23

      I know, it’s pretty ridiculous how much I shop. And every month, I’m like – this month will be different! But no, it’s always the same.

      • Bluejay

        I’m so glad it’s not just me. I have zero ability to save for any discretionary items because I love shopping for clothes and housewares so damn much. I haven’t had a proper vacation since 2007.

        • TCFKAG

          Bluejay — I have this problem (see below) but I’ve managed to save for discretionary items by literally having the money removed from my grasp before its there. So when I wanted to save for a long, expensive European vacation when I was a paralegal, I set up automatic deductions from my checking account on the day my paycheck hit that moved into a separate (not at the same bank) high yield savings account. That way it was like I never even had the money. Its the only way I ever effectively saved before my hubby came along and imposed order on my financial life. :-P

          • b23

            I’ve started doing this, but the problem is that I direct deposit into my bank account and put everything on my credit card for the points. So it takes a lot of monitoring to make sure everything has shown up on my credit card and that the amount doesn’t get over the amount in my bank account, particularly because I am paid on different days than my credit card is due. I’ve actually found it a little stressful because rather than always having a good cushion in my account, it has gotten a little close the last couple of months.

            Has anyone found a good solution to this problem, or am I just being a wimp?

          • TCFKAG

            Use your debit card and sacrifice the points for a few months? (Sorry, my plan assumed use of debit card as primary payment. :-P)

          • Bluejay

            Oh, I have separate accounts. And I am good at saving money for things that are important/not discretionary. But I am all about instant gratification. No self control at all.

          • Jem

            I really like mint.com for that. Can see bank account and all ccs lined up with current balances.

      • fresh jd

        Me too!!!! I was on a shopping diet, but of course much like with food diets, I ended up binging :/

    • TCFKAG

      Same. Today went to Target for one thing, left with 7 (or I guess 12 depending on how you count). Socks, hose, a new clutch, a new belt (in a fun blue), and Bumble and Bumble hair creme (thanks for the rec ladies, but geez is that stuff expensive). And that’s after I bought a bunch of sales stuff at Talbots this week. Its a problem!

      Oh, but my new Talbots dress came and its cute! Its this one in purple: http://www.talbotsoutlet.com/online/browse/product_details.jsp?id=prdi28016&rootCategory=cat90036&catId=cat80018&sortKey=Default&section=Sale&conceptIdUnderSale=cat90036 It fits well, though a bit snugger than I expected — and I love love love that its long sleeved. Might be a little risqué on some one with more b**bage than me though. :-)

      • Bluejay

        So my 8oz bottle of B&B Curl Conscious Creme lasts me 8-9 months. It’s actually a much better deal than cheaper styling products, which usually require me to use more product and therefore only last 2 months or so. I hope it’s the same for you!

        • AnotherLadyLawyer

          Absolutely true. I have a bottle at home and a bottle in my office and both have lasted forever. Tip – if you decide you love it, Sephora has a ginormous bottle that will probably last years and years and years.

    • Susan

      I’m on a self-imposed (since early April) shopping ban right now, too. Must hold out until June 1. I have nearly fallen off the wagon a few times, because it’s really, really hard to not do something that gives me so much enjoyment. So don’t beat yourself up over it.

      I really love all the stages of shopping– the clotheslust (when the object initially catches my eye), the dance (when I online-stalk the item for days, hoping for sales or coupon codes), and finally, sealing the deal when I acquire the item. And hey, let it not be said that I don’t appreciate what I already have– wearing the item I’ve just bought is also incredibly enjoyable. I don’t know if I can last until June 1, and if I don’t, I’ll try to pick myself up and continue again, but it is hard. Don’t be mad at yourself.

      If I am successful in my shopping ban, I think I’ll moderate it to setting aside a small-ish amount each month for random shopping, and trying to stick to that.

    • MissJackson

      I’m supposed to be saving this month’s shopping budget for a trip… but just this morning I caved and put in an order with both JCrew (can’t stop buying No. 2 pencil skirts) and Elie Tahari (gorgeous blazer that I’ve been sale-stalking). So I’ll take your fail and raise you an Epic Fail. I’m both excited and disappointed in myself.

    • PollyD

      Perhaps we need a Corporette Shopaholics Annoynmous group. I, too, have failed many a shopping ban.

      • PollyD

        Still in moderation! I just wanted to suggest a ThisWebsiteName Group Like People with Drinks Issues join. But it’s not even clever anymore.

    • Bonnie

      My problem is space. I keep telling myself that I won’t buy anything until I get rid of some things from my ridiculously small but crammed closet. I hae a laundry basket in my room just because I can’t fit everything in.

    • Anonsensical

      So glad to hear I’m not alone! I’ve gotten really good at walking away from stuff I want, but I still can’t resist a killer sale or the chance to get something that’s sold out. I don’t buy stuff I don’t really want just because I can get a good deal on it or because it might sell out, but I do tend to think, “Well, I really want that already, and if I don’t act now it will (a) cost me more later or (b) be gone forever,” and then I buy it when I’m totally not supposed to be buying myself things. And I *know* there will always be more sales and more stuff I want if a particular item gets away from me, but I still can’t resist. I’ve also noticed that the more broke I am and the more deprived I feel, the more my desire for totally frivolous stuff increases. I nearly bought gold eyeliner this weekend, just because I wanted something shiny.

    • Mountain Girl

      I have been on the search for the perfect white skirt for the summer and it has consumed entirely too much mental real estate for the last week or so.

      It seems like every season I go on a little spending spree and think to myself “after I find ___ that will be all I need” and, for reasons I have yet to figure out, it never works.

      I have total lack of willpower in that department. I will feel better today being with like minded souls as I daydream of flared skirts and cardigan sweaters.

    • CA Atty

      Whoa, give yourself a break!! You were looking for these shoes BEFORE your swearing off of shopping. Thus, it really counts in the pre-swearing off time. PLus, just think of how much longer you would have to wait if you didn’t jump on them now. Also, it’s only $30. Finally, this is not a whim! This was a well planned out purchase! I don’t think I have EVER had the memory/willpower to check the site on a regular basis to see if something I liked came back into stock.

      Actually, you rock!

      • Anonsensical

        Haha! Thanks, CA Atty. Now I feel like I did a good, responsible thing this morning.

        *pats self on back

      • NOLA

        What? You don’t stalk clothes or shoes online? I know I do. There was a sweater I tried on in early December on sale. Didn’t buy it (stupidly – but in my defense I was Christmas shopping and wasn’t supposed to be shopping for me). It disappeared from every store and the website, then magically it reappeared on the website one day in my size. Mine!

  17. DC Darling

    TJ: Cardigans and sweaters appropriate for the office?

    I read New Womens Dress for Success (written by John T Molloy with a lot of interviews/case studies/etc) a while ago and at first I was pretty skeptical of some of the advice. However, having thought some more about it, I think Molloy has some points about sweaters on women. Specifically he states (he has an entire section on women in law) that sweaters/cardigans are a comfortable homey material not appropriate for the office. He vehemently urges wearing blazers instead of cardigans because it looks less professional and can delegate women to the “assistant/secretary” label. Essentially, men know better than to wear a sweater in the office and so should women.

    I neither agree nor disagree with the last point re: only wearing what men do but that’s part of his argument and I was curious as to what the hive thought.

    • anon

      hmm. what am i supposed to do with my collection of 10 different colored cardigans now???

    • Midwest

      I see his point, but I think he’s a bit off the mark. Yes, some sweaters give off the homey/comfortable vibe, but that’s mainly due to fabrication, fit, thread size, etc. There is a big difference between a chunky-knit sweater and a fine-gauge cotton/silk blend. The latter is perfectly appropriate for the office, IMO. Relaxed-fit sweaters tend to skew casual but fitted sweaters generally look sharp as long as the fabrication is nice.

      • DC Darling

        I’m not strictly talking about appropriate for the office, I should have been more clear. He goes further to state that women do a disservice to themselves by wearing cardigans when that used to be and is still perceived by many as the “secretary uniform.”

        His argument is that a man in a button down and slacks will almost always be assumed to be in a suit with just his jacket off. A woman in a cardigan is perceived as being much less authoritative than one in a blazer regardless of fit or fabric because the sweater is a homey, comfortable, material that has historically not been associated with office wear.

        • Former MidLevel

          Well, in my experience men *do* wear sweaters to the office, at least in business casual environments. They may wear button-downs under them, but that seems to be the equivalent of wearing a cardigan over a blouse.

          Generally, I subscribe to a non-dissection theory of professionalism–that is, it is rare that any one general type of piece is capable of rendering an entire outfit unprofessional. Or “secretarial.” In other words, it depends what sweater you wear and how you wear it.

          Full disclosure: I personally wear cardigans and other sweaters all the time.

          • rosie

            Men wear sweaters in my (business casual) office, too. Even if a man is not wearing a sweater, I think there can be a noticeable difference between male business casual dress and a suit sans jacket.

        • TCFKAG

          Right! But why should we conform ourselves to HIS idea of what a lawyer or other professional is, rather than HIM having to wrap his head around the idea that ladies are things other than assistants now? And they can wear cardigans and kick his *ss in court too.

          • DC Darling

            I could easily have this attitude if I was partner or had “made it”. As a first year associate though? You better believe I’ll be conforming to HIS/whoevers standards bc I desperately need this job and want to do well, be taken seriously, etc etc.

          • Seattleite

            But it’s not HIS idea. He does a great deal of research, and what he publishes are his findings on how dress affects people’s perception of you, not his idea of what is professional. It’s a crucial difference.

    • TCFKAG

      I think it depends on the styling. Michelle Obama wears them all the time, and she rarely looks secretarial (sometime she intentionally looks casual/mommy-like, but that’s different). I think there is also a difference between men’s cardigans, which tend to be of a thicker “Mr. Roger’s” like fabric and women’s cardigans which are more tailored and thinner. I do agree that thick, comfy cardigans aren’t super work-appropriate.

      But I also generally am turned off by people who start saying things like “oh, that’s secretarial” because almost universally that means “feminine”. Because there aren’t any “secretarial” men’s work clothes, because men aren’t stereotyped as secretaries. So its not really about cardigans, its about the fact that cardigans are associated with women. And I have less patience with that.

      • Susan

        THIS.

        It’s also a “know your office” type thing. In my business casual office, the only people who wear blazers with any regularity are the security guards (men and women both). They wear regulation black blazers over whatever they’re wearing.

        The crisp dress shirt + nice pants + thin J.crew-style cardigan is almost a uniform for the senior women (and all those young MBAs who aspire to be senior women) here.

        • Midwest

          I think that’s why his advice surprised me. Even my highest-level female boss wears the dress shirt/nice pants/BR cardi uniform on days when she doesn’t have critical meetings.

          That said, I have been trying to step up my game and wear more blazers. For the longest time, I felt like a kid playing dress-up when I wore a jacket but I’m finally getting old enough to pull it off without looking like I’m trying too hard.

      • Gooseberry

        Yes. Yes. Yes to this. (That’s all I have to say. Other than it’s cold in here, but now I hate my sweater.)

    • momentsofabsurdity

      I think he’s off his mark. Different clothes are appropriate for different people and different situations. Just like most people don’t consider khaki pants business attire for women, but they’re find for business casual men, cardigans can be business attire for women and not for men.

      • DC Darling

        I think he has a point. In the law offices I’ve worked in, business casual means business attire sans jackets. As a result the men wear button downs, ties, and slacks but always have a blazer hanging ready in case a client comes in. The women however, almost all wear cardigans.

        So my question is this, if the men in the office aren’t wearing sweaters, would you?

        • rosie

          The women could also have a blazer or suit on their door, but wear cardigans when they don’t feel that they need the jacket. I am much more comfortable in a sweater than a blazer, but if I need to look more formal, I will put on a blazer.

          • SC

            I usually wear a blazer to work, but if I expect to be at my desk writing all day (and especially working late), I’ll wear a cardigan and place the a blazer on my door. I don’t think that’s any different than men wearing dress pants, a button down, and tie and having a jacket on the door.

        • Totes McGotes

          The men in my offices aren’t wearing dresses, but I’ve got one on.

          Also, maybe sweaters wouldn’t be an issue if the thermostats in the majority of offices were not uniformly controlled by men…

        • Em

          Yes. After all, the men in the office wear ties, but I don’t. And the men in my office don’t wear skirts or heels, but I do. The fact of the matter is, these things aren’t directly translateable.

          (Now, I will say, that I’d defend the right of any woman to wear traditionally male professional clothing in the office and vice versa, but I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about here.)

        • momentsofabsurdity

          Sure. The men in my office also aren’t wearing skirts or dresses, but I am. The men in my office may be wearing khaki pants with the blazer on the door (maybe this is too informal for your office) but that would be a notch down in professionalism for me if I wore them.

          I also allow that if you work in an environment where people wear suits every day, but take the jacket off to walk around the office, a cardigan ensemble might not be appropriate – if the men are in suits, the women should be as well. However, I don’t work in that type of environment. And for the standard business casual I see (sweaters (on men!) or button downs, slacks, loafers) a cardigan with other appropriate attire would not be inappropriate.

    • Bluejay

      I definitely don’t wear a sweater in a context where most men will be wearing suits. Jackets are the only appropriate outer layer for formal business occasions. But for a regular workday, the vast majority of men in my office are in shirtsleeves with their jacket hung behind their door (and a lot of men in my office wear sweaters, actually, over a shirt and tie). I think a cardigan is absolutely appropriate in that context. In contexts where suits are optional, I think either a cardigan or jacket is appropriate. Women aren’t men. Does wearing a skirt diminish us because men wear pants? I don’t think so. So long as your outfit is cut in a professional style (i.e. probably not a slouchy/boyfriend cardigan, but something like the J. Crew Jackie or a sweater jacket), there’s no reason why it’s unprofessional or will result in men thinking less of you.

      Also, I literally have 18 cardigans in about 15 colors and a variety of shapes, and John T. Malloy can pry them from my cold, dead, preppy hands.

      • MissJackson

        “Also, I literally have 18 cardigans in about 15 colors and a variety of shapes, and John T. Malloy can pry them from my cold, dead, preppy hands.”

        +1

    • HippieEsq

      I think he views this as “secretarial” wear because he is stuck in a time when the only women in professional offices were secretaries. What is really going on is that cardigans are what many professional women wear these days, secretaries or not. This man needs to get his own gender prejudices out of his head!

      • momentsofabsurdity

        I agree with this. It’s secretarial wear because when most women were secretaries, this is what they wore. Now, women are things other than secretaries (not that there’s anything wrong with admin work). So either a) the secretaries of yore were too unprofessional in their cardigans to be professionals or b) business attire for men and women is different, and as women have moved into more professional level positions, attire requirements have to be adjusted to account for that.

    • Anon

      So, this will be a minor threadjack. I have a ridiculous number of cardigans (I made the mistake of counting once… it’s over 20…) which I wear almost every day, over sheath dresses or blouses/skirts. It’s pretty much my uniform. My office gets cold, and many of my dresses are sleeveless, which is not appropriate in my office. I think it’s completely acceptable to wear cardigans where men are dressed in slacks/button-down shirts. Most women in my office wear cardigans on a regular basis.

      That being said… I sort of agree with his comments, to a point. When I look at many of the female partners and more senior associates I admire, they all wear blazers on a regular basis. Not suit jackets, necessarily, but colorful or textured, interesting, fashionable blazers. I do think it looks sharper and more authoritative. For the associates, it also makes them look older (and I have always had a problem with looking very young). So, I’ve actually decided in the past few weeks that I want to wear more blazers/jackets, and have been meaning to post to ask for some advice. The problem is… where do I start? Right now, all I have are four jackets that go with my suits (two solid black, one navy pinstripe, and one solid grey). I have a ton of sheath dresses, mainly sleeveless, in various solid colors and bright patterns.

      Any advice about how to start incorporating this look into my wardrobe? Colors/styles/particular pieces that would be most versatile? I’m looking to spend no more than $150 per jacket/blazer, at most. Would prefer far less than that, and I love sales. I’m petite with an hourglass figure (petite 2 at Jcrew/AT). TIA for any suggestions :)

      • Bluejay

        It can be pretty difficult to match suiting separates. If you are wearing separates, you need to make sure either that the fabrics match perfectly (usually only accomplished if you bought the two items together as a suit), or are so different as to be obviously intentional (i.e. searsucker, tweed, etc). So you should probably forget about mixing your existing suit jackets with anything other than your existing suits, and start looking for jackets in different fabrics that complement your existing pants and sheath dresses.

        I also think you should check out the blog ExtraPetite. Jean (the blogger there) is a size 0, shops at J.Crew and AT, and wears a lot of gorgeous suiting separates.

        • Supra

          I agree with this and generally look for blazers in fabrics that can be worn with different things. I have wool (worn over silk dresses, cotton knit, etc), grey flannel (worn with anything), chambray, linen.

      • TCFKAG

        I would start by thinking about what color cardigans you like best and then getting blazers in those colors. I’d guess gray, black, brown, navy, or white would be your best bets. My most used blazers are a grey textured one from Talbots, a peach one from Talbots, and a seersucker one from AT Loft, and a purple one from H&M, so obviously its not a hard and fast rule.

        I think the best bet is something either (a) that is shrunken or (b) has a clear texture or design is going to make you feel most like you aren’t wearing a suit. And if its fun, you may not feel sad that you’re not wearing your cardigan.

        Something like this without a collar might also help, because you’d feel less like you were wearing a jacket jacket. : http://www.talbots.com/online/browse/product_details.jsp?id=prdi28827&rootCategory=cat70010&catId=cat80008&sortKey=Default&section=Regular&conceptIdUnderSale=cat70010

      • Supra

        I am a petite hourglass as well and I wear blazers every day. I find that they “hide” my large chest better than a clingy cardigan and they look more polished.

        I love J. Crew schoolboy blazers. I have several of those. I also bought 2 of the Gibson blazer from Nordstrom that was featured on here a few weeks ago. I have some from BR and Theory as well.

        I also like the blazer over a buttoned cardigan look (with a white collared shirt underneath). It may be too preppy for some, but I think its fun in an old-man academic vibe kind of way.

      • gina

        I’ve been seeing some fun blazers at Forever 21 recently. I can’t vouch for quality and longevity, given the source, but they have stylish blazers at a super low price point. May be a place to start, to see what you actually wear once you have it hanging in your closet. Then upgrade quality based on your experience with blazers.

      • Anon

        Thanks for the replies everyone. Excited to do some shopping this weekend :)

    • Mountain Girl

      I think it is a little off the mark. At the hospital those of us who are not in scrubs are already viewed as more “dressed up” than 90% of our co-workers. I actually find that a fine gauge cardigan is more professional for me because I leave it on during the day. I tend to shed my jackets pretty early in the day and those who stop by more office will usually see me in shirt sleeves. However, sweaters generally stay on all day unless the office temp gets too warm. (Being the only woman on our thermostat means I am seldom too warm.) I think its a “know your office” situation because they men don’t tend to wear jackets on a daily basis. Even the CEO doesn’t regularly wear a jacket but this would be fairly standard across all professions in our city.

      • Madeline

        Since you mentioned you’re in a hospital, I was hoping you might have advice. I’ll soon be starting in non-scrub position where I’ll be interacting with both clinicians and c-suite execs. I’m baffled as to what to wear (in my current role, I wear shift dresses and blazers or cardigans most of the time). I’m young-ish for the role and not a clinician. Should I plan on wearing suits most days?

        • Mountain Girl

          I’m sure the dress code varies between facilities. We are a smallish hospital so I’m sure we are more casual that a large university hospital. In our facility your current wardrobe would work just fine. The only problem you might have is with shoes. We have strict rules on what sort of shoes can be worn in patient care areas. Open toed shoes and heels could be prohibited if you will spend much time in patient care areas. I would make sure you understand that rule and go from there. You will probably have to wear ID so that sort of changes some of the jewelery that I wear to work because I have invested in some really nice beaded lanyards for my photo badge.

    • Ruta Skadi

      The concept of a cardigan not being appropriate for the office is a little silly to me. If someone isn’t taking you seriously, it’s not because you wore a cardigan. It could be for a host of both legitimate and illegitimate reasons – e.g., you are female, your work product is not good, you are flakey, you end every sentence as a question and project a general air of flightiness, you are not reliable, you do not take the initiative, etc. etc. I can’t even list them all. But let’s not lose sight of the fact that an ambiguous article of clothing that is (1) modest and (2) generally accepted to be business-casual office wear is not going to make or break your career. Even if you are junior.

      This is an example of absolute over-scrutiny on women’s clothing that completely demeans us and our performance in the workplace. Advice to wear a formal suit when everyone else is wearing one? Ok. Advice to never wear miniskirts? Ok. Advice to not wear tube tops to interviews? Even better. But seriously. Cardigans?

      Come on.

      • DC Darling

        As I stated before, it’s a matter of perception and not about being taken seriously. I think we can agree that while cardigans are office appropriate, blazers are more authoritative and give you a much better presence.

        • Em

          Yes, but if it makes you overdressed compared to everyone else in your office (which it would at mine), that can be a problem too.

  18. buffybot

    You guys.

    I don’t want to make this a spoilers discussion, especially since I’m sure lots of you are just watching Game of Thrones instead of reading the books. However, I’m about halfway through A Storm of Swords and just hit a pivotal development (I like to think of it as, Opposite of that David Bowie song).

    I am…devastated. Do I really even want to read the rest of the books if they’re going to be this horrid?

    • SC

      I think I know what you’re talking about, and I’d suggest sticking with it – these books definitely have their up’s and down’s, but it’s a fun roller coaster ride :)

    • cfm

      It bothered me so much. So graphic. And ok to be honest I went on wikipedia after I read it and read about Ramsay Bolton and it was so graphic and disgusting, like a million times worse than any hostel movie torture stuff, that I just don’t think I can do it. I haven’t got past storm of swords but would love updates from anybody who is currently up to date through all the books. Is it is bad as it says on wikipedia? if I am a sensitive person (I didn’t even know I was) should I just not read anymore?

      • Bluejay

        Um, I loved the books, but I basically had nightmares incessantly the entire time I was reading them. I have a vivid imagination and tend to get REALLY into books, like skip work and reread whole sections into it. I am definitely sensitive to violence, but in print it bothers me less than on a screen (where I just cannot watch it). So anyway… yes, it’s violent. Yes, the Wikipedia summaries are accurate. And I don’t think you can flip past the violent parts without missing too many plot points. So maybe this is not the series for you.

        • cfm

          I think that might be true. But its really bothering me just as much now I think. Its not violence I have a problem with but torture, mutilation, and things happening to women like that, I don’t know I just have felt disturbed for days. I just feel very torn between love for the books and the really sick sick things in them.

        • DC Darling

          I got halfway through A Feast for Crows and I have no idea what unbelievable violence you guys are talking about. I guess this means I need to reread.

          • cfm

            its the bolton b*stard story line. the op is talking about… like white funeral but different…

      • a.

        The nastiest of the Bolton stuff all happens off-screen (er, page). I can only think of one particularly twisted (not quite violent, although I suppose that’s implied) bit on-screen. But if they skeeve you out, just don’t read them–it’s not worth it. Personally, I can read just about anything, but seeing it, hostel movie torture style, I can’t handle. I still haven’t caught up on Game of Thrones the TV show because of the discussion of it last week; I know I’ll probably have issues with that. So no shame.

    • a.

      Is it the Red Thingum (trying to avoid spoilering)? That’s the most pivotal/devastating moment I can think of in that book. Yeah, it was pretty whompface, but I think with ASOIAF you have to be ready and willing to handle occasional WHY GOD WHY? [wail of despair] moments. That’s kind of their ethos–that GRR isn’t going to shy away from awfulness, or that good is going to triumph just because it’s good. If you can’t handle it–meh. A Fest for Crows was comparatively tame, as was A Dance With Dragons until the very last chapters, but ehh he’s never going to be nice to his characters.

      • DCAnon

        It’s my belief that the event your talking about in DwD ends up not being final… and is just a way to move that story thread through to it’s conclusion. (if that makes any sense, trying not to be spoilery!)

    • Bluejay

      I can’t remember exactly what you’re talking about, but I am impressed that you managed to put the book down. The Song of Ice and Fires series has caused me to pull more all-nighters than I pulled in law school.

      • Susan

        Ditto to the all-nighters. No matter the horror that was unfolding, I just had to find out what was happening next.

        I actually like that the author doesn’t whitewash the horribleness that is possible in people, and which often comes out in full force when there’s war/disruption in the social fabric.

        • DC Jenny

          That’s part of the reason I like it too. We tend to romanticize the past, but feudalism is a brutal system, and I like that GRRM doesn’t gloss over the reality of things when certain life is cheap.

      • Bluejay

        Ohhhh, I remember what you’re talking about now. I can’t keep straight which book is which. I’m excited for you now because you will get to find out all the plot twists. :)

        (KAT – I’ve tried to post this comment eight times. Is there nothing you can do about the posting too quickly error???)

        • Always a NYer

          Just keep refreshing that page. It may take a dozen times but you’re comment will eventually post =)

    • DC Darling

      I don’t know what exactly you’re referring to but I had to stop reading that series. I got so mad she kept killing off my favorite characters.

      Also, I am incapable of watching the tv series. I really want to but everytime I turn it on with the bf I have this crazy urge to yell out spoilers. I also get irritated with the story line because I already know everything. Strange though since I’ve watched plenty of book->tv movies/series without experiencing that.

    • anon in DC

      I’ve watched part of the series and read the wiki summaries for the books, and cringed for most of it. I like action movies and usually don’t mind violence but find find series like this too much. It also makes me wonder how people are able to create and write such horrific storylines. For those of you who enjoy Game of Thrones, what keeps your attention and how do you disconnect from it when you’re done?

      • Bluejay

        It’s great fiction – great plot, extremely well-developed characters, completely absorbing. The middle ages were a terribly brutal era, and fantasy fiction set in a medieval-esque world shouldn’t be any different. Real life is full of sick bastards too, and there are few heroes.

    • DC Jenny

      I read Storm of Swords a few months ago and only just picked up Feast for Crows because I needed a break from the intensity. SoS definitely gave me nightmares. I had one especially vivid one in which Varys stabbed me in the kidney, and I woke with a start, certain I had been stabbed.

      That said, Feast for Crows has been less intense so far, but I’m only 1/3 of the way through. As I have told my friends who are getting into the series, you have to go into it knowing that your favorite characters might be brutally killed at any moment. I’m not usually into ultra-violent entertainment, but for some reason this series has me hooked.

      • Bluejay

        “I had one especially vivid one in which Varys stabbed me in the kidney, and I woke with a start, certain I had been stabbed.”

        I hate to laugh at your pain, but hahahaha. This sounds like something that would happen to me.

  19. Feeling Old

    Last night I went to a women’s bar event. It was wonderful; I visited with a lot of attorneys I know, and I met and visited with several new attorneys. During the course of the evening, the speaker was recognizing some women in the room and mentioned “X.” I looked at X when she was introduced: young, impeccably dressed in a sleek but conservative black pantsuit, long blond straight hair down and in place, brand new black $2160 Louis Vuitton Alma handbag, stern poker face. When I got home, I looked X up and learned that she graduated from a top 20 law school six years ago and is on her second big firm (first one imploded last year).

    Why did X make me feel so old? That was my life (minus the perfect hair) 10 years ago: big firm, big firm salary (and accompanying wardrobe), events every night of the week. At the time, it was exciting because the work was invigorating and the financial independence was liberating. But I also know that it was excruciating: every evening event like last night meant one more night that I went home and worked instead of sleeping and X’s stern poker face probably indicates she was drafting a brief in her head instead of listening to the program (at least, that’s what I used to do). So I don’t envy her. But I am . . . wistful.

    Anyone else experience this?

    • anon

      Yes, I do. I know why I left my firm, but sometimes I miss the opportunities I left behind. Or just that time when it felt like everything was open to me. And the good parts of the lifestyle, the fabulous dinners and events and aura of being a big firm lawyer. I don’t know what else to say but I feel it too. Wistful is exactly the right word. Sometimes I wonder if I’m experiencing the infamous mid-life crisis?

  20. a passion for fashion

    I totally disagree, on all points. First, men wear sweaters to the office all the time. But regardless of what men do (ie, they dont wear skirts), cardis are fine and should be a wardrobe staple. And i dont think it matters what kind of cardigan you wear, but rather how you wear it. For example, I have a boyfriend cardigan that i will wear to the office on non-court days, belted over a fitted sheath dress or pencil skirt and blouse. I doubt anyone thinks I am a secretary.

    Moreover, most of the secretaries would look dressed up if they were wearing cardis.

    This is not to knock the blazer though, becuase i have a lot of those too and think they should also be wardrobe staples.

  21. First Year Blues

    Hi all,

    I am a first-year associate in BigLaw. Lately, I’ve been really, really struggling with self-confidence issues. I feel like every single week, I get criticized or berated for some sort of “mistake”–many of which are my fault (usually minor things, like typos, which always seem to happen no matter how many times I proofread); others of which are not .

    I accept that I make mistakes, and that I am a first year, and it is a learning experience. I want people to let me know what I am doing wrong, so that I can improve. I do wish people would phrase things a little more kindly sometimes. But basically, it’s that it happens so. damn. much. I am trying very hard to be a conscientious, thoughtful, hard worker, but every time I get an email saying something like “Please be careful to do this more carefully next time” (I was careful! I promise!) my self-confidence gets that much thinner, and I worry greatly about the reputation that I may be developing in the firm.

    Other than proofread proofread proofread, what can I do? Are some people just not cut out for this kind of work? Have I chosen the completely wrong profession for me?

    Ugh, just writing this is making me feel like crying. Must. not. cry. at. the. office. Sigh.

    • Anonformer1styear

      Right there with you. Other than proofreading, there’s not a whole lot you can do (though if you know you’re turning something important into a picky partner and have a reliable assistant, you might have them look it over for you). What especially drove me crazy is when I’d get that same thing from partners whose own work product was littered with typos and grammatical snafus. Ugh.

      Remember that one of the most important features in a big law attorney is emotional resiliency. You need to find the tricks to allow yourself to cope with the daily grind, its not an easy workplace. But, it can have its rewards, both monetary and professional if you give it time. Deep breath. Make associate friends with whom you can vent! Get manicures and pedicures. :-)

      • AnotherLadyLawyer

        This! Emotional resiliency is something they don’t teach in law school and something you may not know you have (but you do!). It’s tough – for every email you get that says “I can’t believe you didn’t catch that typo” you also likely deserve an email that says “Great job with that tricky legal issue!” or “Great job with the research!” But sadly you’re not likely to get the latter emails, which makes being resilient even tougher. Remember that anyway and congratulate yourself. Remember how much work you put into it and be proud of that and recognize that the typo will likely be forgotten in a moment. I also took some solace in the fact that partners/more senior associates were always making mistakes/typos that I would catch in my office (but clearly you can’t call them out on it). And anonformer1styear is right – vent to associate friends, vent to your non-lawyer friends, vent to your parents, etc. Don’t let the impending doom feeling of “OMG I did something wrong!” sit and fester (I did that once after a particularly bad brief-writing week and nearly had a nervous breakdown).

        As for how to deal with the typos, the other suggestions are spot on. I’d also suggest that you read something else in between reading and re-reading your draft. Not just an email or something quick, but something like a NYT article or a few gossip blog posts. I can never find typos on the second or third consecutive read (your brain reads right over them – science says so!).

    • Former MidLevel

      You have not chosen the wrong profession. It is impossible (in my opinion) to perfectly proofread your own work, so you need to find resources at your firm to help. Do you have an assigned assistant? If so, ask him or her to proofread your assignments before you turn them in. If you have an assistant who stinks at proofreading (like I did), search for creative solutions. Can you wait until after 5 p.m. and use the nighttime secretary/pool? Or wait until “your” assistant is busy and use someone better in your pool (if you have a secretary-pool system)? Find another first year who you can trade assignments with?

    • Midlevel is a little better

      First off, many hugs.

      My first year was awful. I think I did cry at least once a week, all that I noticed were the mistakes I made and it felt like that’s all everyone else noticed to.

      It gets better. As I’ve said to the first years in my group who are going through the same thing you are — It doesn’t get any easier, it just sucks less. (I can’t remember where I heard that phrase, it may have been on this blog, it may have been on a CrossFit blog).

      As for practice points, try to not make the same mistake more than once or twice (which is really hard with typos, which are still my biggest weakness). And when someone points out a mistake, accept it and don’t argue, get overly dramatic,, or dismiss it as a non-issue. Also, try not to provide excuses, unless it really is something that someone else told you to do or did incorrectly.

      Not that you’re doing that, but I’ve noticed that really annoys senior people more than the actual mistake that was made.

      I think every first year has serious doubts that this was the right profession for him or her. It’s a hard job because it does require a certain amount of perfection that is often unrealistic.

      • Midlevel is a little better

        See, I used to instead of too in my first sentence. Argh!

      • ELS

        Thank you for this. I’ve had a very hard few months during my first year as a lawyer, and I’ve been wondering if this is the right profession for me. It’s helpful to remember I’m not the only one who’s felt this way.

      • it was crossfit

        “It doesn’t get any easier, it just sucks less” is from Crossfit. I have adopted that phrase though. It really does apply to the legal profession. The more you learn the more you learn that you don’t know. You master something and the next day something brand new is thrown at your feet. But, the suckiness goes away. Same with Crossfit. I’m in month 3 and it’s just as hard but I’m not as miserable!

      • buffybot

        God, this is so true. There should be Dan Savage-style campaign for poor First Years. I’m only a Second Year and it is just so. so. different.

        I don’t know what happens — certainly I’m not THAT much better than I was 12 months ago — although the learning curve is steep. But some kind of switch kind of clicked for me, and the overwhelming panic and feeling that I couldn’t do a single thing right eventually subsided. I’m lucky in that I work with humane, pleasant people (no screamers), but I still screw up on the regular. But you grow used to it, and you start seeing how you’ve grown, and if you’re lucky, you’ll get a little positive feedback here and there. Hang in there!

    • HelperMonkey

      The problem seems to be that biglaw is populated with a bunch of people who were always too hard on themselves and who lived through others being too hard on them as new associates, who feel compelled to pass on the pain.

      It’s the same with the loathing for paralegals and secretaries I sometimes see lawyers have. Remember ladies, many of you (or your friends, mothers or aunts) were secretaries and it is an honorable profession. Don’t knock others just to make yourselves feel good!

      • qwerty

        agree with this. you need to keep all of this in mind whenever you get criticism on your work and the inevitable typos. eventually you don’t take it as personally and develop the emotional resiliency that others mentioned above. it’s part of the growth of an associate.

    • Midwest

      Hang in there and know that you’re not alone. Most of us have been there at one time or another. One thing that helped me, and I continue to use to this day, is to make a proofreading checklist. And forget the lists on the Internet; make one that’s specific to your workplace. Also, make a list of your most common errors. We all have our ‘things’ that are blind spots and tend to get overlooked. Include them on your checklist, too.

      And finally? Try to relax and not worry about what others are thinking of you, just a little bit. I know this is so much easier said than done, but your self-confidence is a bit bruised anyway and letting people get in your head and chip away at you is not going to help.

      • Former MidLevel

        I love the idea of a proofreading checklist. I am going to adopt this–in addition to finding another reader. :)

    • new york associate

      Go cry in the bathroom. It’s really fine.

      I have been in your shoes and what I can tell you is that this too will pass. It’s not unusual to get caught in a critique-spiral. For me, the constant critiques generally make my work product worse, because I’m so worried about it that I miss stupid things. You did not choose the wrong profession and it doesn’t mean you’re not cut out for law.

      Strategic tips:
      1) Do you have an assistant that you like? Have her read over your work product for typos, etc. Basically, get a set of fresh eyes. If you’re close to other first-years, they can also do this for you.
      2) Do you have a senior associate mentor? Talk to him or her. As a NY senior associate, I would be delighted to talk to any miserable first year, especially because I was so miserable my first few years. It may just be that the partners you are working with are particularly difficult.
      3) Remember that memories are short. You’ll get through this and by the time you’re a third year, people won’t remember that you had proof-reading issues the first time around. Also, if it’s really bad, you can always lateral, which gives you a chance to “reboot” your reputation. Hang in there for just a little longer and then start exploring options.

      Good luck.

      • new york associate

        Oh, one more proof-reading idea: print it out in a different font and read it out loud. I’m totally serious. Reading it out loud, including citations, etc., helps force your brain to see mistakes that you ordinarily will bypass. It’s also a good way to sharpen your writing. A judge in my circuit requires her clerks to read all of her draft opinions out loud, sitting around a table, before they are published — and her opinions are always perfect.

        • SF Bay Associate

          I do this. This is how I started working with Senior Partner – he caught me proofreading a draft for someone else out loud, and started giving me his, too. Glamorous? No, but I rarely miss anything. Senior Partner also gives me more substantive work now, but I still proof most of his filings. I also read silently with a ruler, back to front, bottom to top, one sentence at a time. I can’t catch typos silently reading from front to back (the normal way).

          • a passion for fashion

            A partner I used to work with would walk around the floor on a filing day and hand a portion of the brief to about 3-4 people and ask them to proof it. This worked well.

          • Equity's Darling

            Yes to the ruler.

            I was taught to do it by one of the more (probably most successful in his year) successful midlevel associates at my firm. He uses a plain white sheet of paper so he can’t see any other words on the page and reads line by line, and then paragraph by paragraph, then the whole page. It’s tedious, but I swear, my work product has improved drastically, and I catch a lot more of my own mistakes.

        • mid-senior

          I do this now after others suggested it here. I catch so much more this way.

    • fresh jd

      I’ve been in, and find myself back on, this boat many times. Just last week I was called into my boss’s office for a conf call with some vips, and I got so nervous that I stammered throughout the call and spoke way too fast and my hands were literally shaking. My boss was shocked at how nervous I came off. I thought I was a better communicator than that, but the nerves just took over. I worry that he won’t trust me to speak with higher ups and vips anymore because of my blunder.

      I had to reassure myself for the next few days that life goes on, I’m human and next time I’ll handle the pressure better. Every day is a chance to improve your work and prove yourself anew. People have short-term memories, esp with minor mistakes. With written communications, I find it best to print out the item and read it twice. Then read it again on screen – not all at once, give your eyes a break and 24 hrs if you can. And if at all possible, always have someone else put a fresh set of eyes on it for you before handing it up. And don’t beat yourself up, do some yoga and meditate (or exercise of your choice) to clear your mind and start over. It really helps me if I am consistent. It is really important to exercise if you want to keep your mind sharp and anxiety/stress at bay.

    • Eleanor

      I am right there with you, except I’m not in biglaw (small law here), and the people who point out my mistakes are pretty nice about it. Despite this, I *still* feel bad about my work all the time, because I feel like such an idiot making dumb mistakes. Or, I feel frustrated because I made a mistake because someone else didn’t give me all the information I needed to do it correctly, but I didn’t know that at the time. Or I feel dumb because someone asked me to do something I’ve never done before, and I tried, but it wasn’t right because I didn’t entirely know what I was doing and people are too busy to answer my questions.

      Rationally, I know there’s not much I can do about this except being really careful(but still everything has to be finished so quickly!) and trying to learn as much as possible. But, I still feel bad about myself. No advice here, but you’re not alone. I just keep hoping it will get better as I learn more and get more comfortable.

      • SF Bay Associate

        Your first paragraph was my April, and I’m afraid it could also be my May. It’s reassuring to hear other people are feeling this way right now.

        • Eleanor

          Yep. I’m hoping things will get better once I hit the one-year mark, though that won’t be until the Fall.

          • SF Bay Associate

            Things really did get better. Years 2 and 3 were much better than year 1. But, I’m finding that Year 4 brings a whole host of new responsibilities and much, much less junior associate-type work. Learning new skills is great, but the very steep learning curve has returned. I’m starting to feel like Year 1 all over again, except now it’s motions and higher stakes instead of doc production and discovery, and the good reputation I worked so hard to earn is now at risk again. Sigh.

    • Anonymous

      I’ve been struggling with similar issues recently – but in a nonprofit, not law. (Though everyone on my team are lawyers.) I’m dealing with both a new supervisor (she’s been here 6 weeks) and a newish ED (almost a year now).

      Under our old ED and my former boss, I was thriving. Sure, I made mistakes now and then — and got called out on them, as I should have been. But with the new bosses, the tone is totally different. A conversation that used to go along the lines of “let’s talk about what went wrong with this project, so we can figure out what to do differently in the future” is now more like “I need to hear about how and why you screwed that up.”

      You’ve captured my feelings perfectly: my self-confidence is getting thinner and thinner with each one of those conversations. I’d go even further: I feel like I’m making *more* (and siller) mistakes than I used to, because the new tone around the office has been so tough for me to adapt to that (unfortunately) I think it’s beginning to affect my work. And that’s clearly a downward spiral which isn’t doing anyone any good.

      The conclusion I’ve come to is that I’m not a good fit for these two supervisors and I’ve started to look at other opportunities. I’m really fortunate that I’d accumulated a lot of credibility in the organization before the new bosses cam in, so I don’t think my job’s at all in jeopardy.

      It’s unfortunate that so few people who get placed into management get ANY kind of training on how to be effective supervisors. I’ve been really lucky to have had a few awesome bosses along the way — although, maybe those experiences are what have made me so aware of just.how.bad. things are this time around and I shouldn’t be so grateful!

      So…no real advice, just lots of (very wordy) empathy!

      • anon

        I’m always surprised by supervisors who seem to believe that competent people never make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes! Even those supervisors make mistakes. I saw a partner in our firm threaten to fire a secretary for putting a letter addressed to the client in an envelope addressed to opposing counsel, which granted, was a pretty big mistake. But within a couple of months, he had sent an email that was privileged to opposing counsel by mistake. Sh*t happens.

    • MaggieLizer

      You’ve gotten great advice from other commenters, just adding to the “you’re not alone” chorus. You are more than your work. Your family, friends, and pets will still love you no matter how many work-related mistakes you make. Fall back on them when you need to be reminded that you’re awesome.

    • mid-senior

      In my firm, we have a saying: Thick skin, short memory. I think both are essential to practicing law long-term.

      Keep your head up, friend.

    • Bluejay

      This is normal. Being a lawyer is hard work, and it isn’t like being in law school. Everyone’s self confidence suffers in the first couple years of practice. After a few years, all the little things you can’t seem to get right will have become second nature. Don’t despair.

    • ELS

      Just reading this made me want to cry in the office.

      I have no advice – I’m right there with you, only not in BigLaw, but SmallLaw. My firm is full of lovely human beings who don’t yell, but I still mess up, I’m still terrified of messing up, I still don’t know anything, and I’m still feeling like I’m in over my head and picked the wrong career.

      I hope the comments on this thread made you feel better. They’ve lifted my depressed first-year spirits and made me feel a little less alone. But my whole point is – even though our offices don’t sound a lot alike, I bet we feel pretty much the same on a daily basis. You’re not alone.

    • First Year Blues

      Thanks, everyone. You’ve really lifted my spirts with your kind words and good advice. I really like the idea of proofreading checklists, too. I helps to know that I’m not alone–and I hope one day to be able to comfort someone the way you have all comforted me.

      • anon for this

        just chiming in – you’re definitely not alone. in small law, but also in first year, also regularly experiencing the “do i do anything right, ever?” feeling. chin up – evidently it’s normal.

  23. Help!

    HELP!

    I’m hoping this isn’t too late and you guys can help me out on a project I am working on. I’m finishing up a paper on different strategies that women to mitigate any disadvantages they may face in professional negotiation, either when there is an explicit power asymmetry or an implicit or perceived asymmetry (for e.g. women may perceive themselves to be at a disadvantage when discussing certain “traditionally male topics”. I have good data from surveys but I REALLY wanted some stories of specific examples or stories. So I’m asking here (!) and will hoping that you wonderful, successful, charming, brilliant women will weigh in.

    Can you give an example of a time in your career when you had to negotiate in a situation in which you had (or perceived yourself to have) less power? What was the power asymmetry? What was your strategy? How did you handle it? Even if it was ultimately unsuccessful. Please note, even if the answer is: I went in there and I was d*mn competent and it had nothing to do with gender, that’s still a great answer!

    Thank you so much!

    • K in... Transition

      I would say that I face that every time I am interviewing and in process of accepting a job offer. There’s a clear power issue both since the person is my future boss and because s/he is someone who has a job and knows I want a job. That said, my strategy is to come in prepared. I know what the salary range is for the position/location/etc., I have a list of “must haves” and a list of “wants” for a position, and I don’t allow myself to feel as if the world ends if the job isn’t the right job for me. So, for example, if I try to negotiate more $ and can’t get that, maybe I can negotiate the hours or the office space or a newer office chair or… get me? Also, I am never someone who names a $ number first. I let the person sit in silence until s/he speaks so I don’t ever undersell myself.

      Hope this helps :)

      • DC Darling

        Completely agree on preparedness. When I was interviewing, I knew that company inside and out, knew what people in my desired position were making, knew my selling points as well as theirs. Only thing I have to add is being prepared to walk away and telling them why you think you deserve more/better. While this might not apply to most people, it’s a strong card to play.

        Just a small thing: in a negotiation I don’t respond to someone’s offer immediately. Even if it’s something small, I pause and repeat the offer in my head and count to three to give myself time to think about it. Sometimes having a quick answer isn’t as good as having a well thought out one.

      • momentsofabsurdity

        I third the idea of preparedness – know the industry, know the position, know where you fall over and under the qualifications necessary, and know what you want, what you will take, and what you will walk away from beforehand.

        I’d also add that I have had to just honestly push myself to bite the bullet and accept that it will be uncomfortable and I will always feel as though I am asking for too much, even if I’m not. I need to have the conversation anyway and need to push myself to do that.

        I’ve also tried to frame my requests away from what I need and why I need it to what I am bringing to the table and why that is valuable and deserving of what I’m asking for.

    • anon

      I am an in-house counsel for a not physically huge but a high profile company. This results in the parties we do business with to appoint their GCs or Managing Partners of their law firms to handle the negotiations. Usually male. Usually 50-60 years old. I am female, physically small, in my 30’s but look 25 and am in my 6th year. They have crazy credentials, I have average. I used to struggle with feeling inferior during negotiations because they have kids older than me, know “industry standards” better than I and many other things that I could go on and on about. When I get nervous about it, I take a breath and imagine myself gathering my credentials, gender, age, experience and then physically gathering their credentials, gender, age and experience, placing them in a nice box and putting it aside. It’s kind of a silly game but it really does work.

  24. DC Jenny

    I would just like to say that I think I am wearing the holy grail of comfortable office outfits: Commando tights, black stretchy AT ponte pencil skirt, black tee shirt, a bright coral knit blazer from Talbots, and CH Air Talia wedge heels. Ahhhh…it’s like I’m in jammies…

    As an added bonus, I feel pretty cool rocking the Sonia Sotomayor bright blazer with black bottoms look.

    • DC Darling

      Colleague walked in this morning in a strappy black tank top, black leggings, thigh high flat boots, and a purple boyfriend cardigan. Worse is that the leggings are too big on her so they look baggy…I wish she was wearing what you’re wearing.

      • DC Jenny

        Oy.

        Personally, I don’t think I could ever work up the nerve to wear thigh-high boots anywhere, much less the office.

        • TCFKAG

          DC Darling, do you at any chance work at Runway? Thigh-high boots were totally a career advancer there!

          Btw y’all, someone gave me that Lucky with the shark shorts article last week! It made me SO SO happy!!

          • DC Darling

            I would happily work at Runway if it meant I got to breath the same air as Meryl Streep. She is fabulous.

            For anyone that cares, I decided to keep the Skirt in coral spice even though it’s more of a peach. Figure I might as well go out of my comfort zone of everything navy, grey, black, jewel toned.

        • DC Darling

          I don’t usually care what people are wearing. I’ll admire something I like on someone but if a colleague wants to show up in jeans, not my business.

          What does annoy me is when said people talk endlessly about how they are more efficient/individual/hard working because they don’t care how they dress and being comfortable somehow = better work.

          B**** please.

  25. MaggieLizer

    Does anyone else shy away from ending a letter with “Please do not hesitate to contact me” because they’re afraid they’ll accidentally say “Please do not contact me”?

    • DC Jenny

      A boss once told me that it sounds wishy-washy to couch things in the negative like “please don’t hesitate” so since then I’ve always gone with “Please contact me if you have any questions or concerns about X.”

      • DC Darling

        I don’t even like to use the word please. The end of my letters usually go “Feel free to contact me with any questions or concerns”.

        But I don’t even include that most times. Usually if someone has a question, they’ll call you without invitation. Many, many times.

    • Jules

      Never worried about this, but I usually say, “please feel free to contact me.” But maybe I should worry about accidently saying, “please feel me.”

    • January

      I rarely use that phrasing anymore. I think I read somewhere once that it’s not necessary – if the other party needs to contact you, they will, whether you invite it or not.

    • Bunkster

      I always use “Please let me know if you need additional information.” But that probably works better in my IT world

    • Bledsoe

      I stay away from it because it grates (to my ear). Why not just say, “Please contact me with any questions or concerns,” or something similarly calm. “Please do not hesitate” annoys me like a superlative would.

    • Coalea

      Ha! I almost always use this in my emails … and now I’m terrified I will make that mistake. Well, if I do, I’ll post about it and you can all enjoy a good laugh.

  26. Moma

    I recently got a new job and would like to get gifts for two women who were particularly helpful to me during my job search. Any gift suggestions? I’m open to anything except food, because at least one of the women is on a very restricted diet.

    • TCFKAG

      How about going to Papersource and getting them both a box of nice, professional note cards? Bonus points if you wanted to order them some nice professional personalized note cards. :-) Another option would be a nice business card holder (Kate Spade has nice ones, but a few days ago there was a thread of recommendations).

    • DC Darling

      No gift suggestions but if you’re going to get a card, I recently used the Hallmark online design your own card option to thank a professor. You can change the cover (on most), write your own personal message, include pictures, etc. The best part though is that they’ll print and mail the letter for you. No having to buy stamps!

    • NOLA

      I love the idea of notecards (then again, I’m a notecard fanatic). Also, scarves were mentioned recently. Just about every woman wears them these days. Something pretty in linen?

  27. Gap returns?

    Has anyone tried to return anything to Gap after wearing it? Here’s the deal: I bought a pair of their Always Skinny jeans after they looked great in the fitting room. I’m wearing them today, and I swear after twenty minutes, they completely changed their appearance — they’re saggy and not flattering at all! I want to return them… but can I? I bought them yesterday, and I still have the receipt. I want my $80 back!

    • Ms. Basil E. Frankweiler

      I’ve never tried, but if you’re open to alternative forms of reimbursement, such as store credit, they may be more open to the return.

    • Anonsensical

      I took back a tank top that had a flaw in the neckline I hadn’t noticed until after I washed and wore it. I also have taken back sweaters that have pilled after one wearing (i.e., all of my sweaters from The GAP. lol). I find that as long as I’m friendly and put on my best “I really like these but was sooooo disappointed that they didn’t hold up” face, I have no problems. Frankly, no one needs to know you wore them or for how long. Just say you took the tags off, put them on with the intention of wearing them and, by the time you were ready to leave the house, you had to change because they’d already gone saggy on you. End of story.

    • DC Darling

      Tell them what you said here. The material stretched with one wear and completely lost its shape. If you really want a refund and not store credit, keep pushing, 9 times out of 10 they’ll aquiesce. Most employees are fully aware of which items are worth buying and aren’t so they might be sympathetic since they probably bought the same item and have to wear it.

      -Former retail worker

    • Bluejay

      Yes. I returned something that didn’t fit properly after I’d taken it out of the packaging and tried it on at home. (This was an undergarment, not something I could try on at home – it may have been tights?). Anyway they took it back, no objections. I’m pretty sure at least they’ll let you do an exchange for a different style or size.

    • Salit-a-gator

      I’ve never had a problem returning worn clothing with a receipt. Am I missing something here? Shoes, are sometimes hard to return if you’ve worn them, but not clothing. Their product is defective and you’re entitled to get you money back – don’t budge.

    • mamabear

      I’ll tell you – I think Gap will take anything back. I had a bag rolling around in the back of my car for probably a month + containing a pair of shorts that turned out not to fit my daughter. When I finally made it to Gap to return them, I pulled them out at the counter and not only did I no longer have the tags or receipt (no idea where they went, I thought they were in the bag), the shorts were also quite linty and crumpled.

      I was embarrassed and ready to leave, but the SA used my credit card and the sku from the sewn-in tag in the shorts to find my original purchase price, and cheerfully credited it to my card.

      Me? Loyal to Gap from here on out.

    • rosie

      Yes, recently. After 2 wears, the hem ripped. The sales associate was sympathetic, and her manager told her to exchange it, but when they did not have the same pair in stock, they just gave me a refund. Be nice, non-confrontational/accusatory, etc. Stress that you wore them for such a short amount of time.

  28. oclg

    Does anybody have the Tippi in linen? I love my regular Tippis but haven’t been able to get myself into a store to try one on.

  29. ML

    OMG, thank you for posting the matching jacket! I have been looking for a navy shift dress with matching jacket and this is perfect. One question: Anyone know how Tahari runs? i’m a large 2, smallish 4. For reference, I usually wear a 2 in Calvin Klein shift dresses, and I wear a 2 skirt/jacket at BR, but a 4 in BR and Gap suit pants and jeans.

    Thanks so much!

    • long time lurker

      I think Tahari runs a little big based on personal experience, but I’m in the 8-10 spectrum so YMMV.

    • gina

      Tahari fits me more like BR and Gap than like Calvin Klein. I really have to size down to get Calvin Klein to fit. I’m also in the 2/4 range in most brands.

  30. Anon 42

    The Skirt threadjack– I’ve given the Skirt a 2nd chance in 3 different sizes (2 petite and one regular), to no avail. They fit my pear shape but are terrifically unflattering on me, which really bums me out b/c I love the looks of them.

    Long story short, if anyone was looking for the green amazon (which is stunning) in a size 4 before they sold out, I’d be happy to sell mine for cost plus shipping to a fellow c-rette rather than sending it back. LMK!

  31. Gap returns?

    Thanks, ladies — I feel more confident about taking it back now. I’ve never returned anything with tags off before, but I may just be overly cautious.

    Related note: Avoid the Gap Always Skinny mid-rise jeans. The fit is very deceptive!

    • Bonnie

      I love the always skinny jeans. An associate told me to size down though since they stretch. I do that with most jeans actually.

  32. Susan

    In keeping with my OCD ways, I just made an Excel spreadsheet listing every item I would like to buy right now. Included are shoes, clothes, and a few housewares-type items. The total which includes the effects of S&H as well as any coupon codes I can use, comes out to: $2953.39

    Holy mackerel, that’s quite a lot! Or, “holy crab legs!” :-)

    • NOLA

      I haven’t resorted to a spreadsheet but I have created wishlists with dollar amounts. It’s not shoes and clothes (I generally don’t have enough willpower to wait!) but rather furniture and household items. I had so much redecorating to do post-K and post-divorce that it took me awhile. But the cool thing about that kind of list is that if you have a little windfall, you know exactly what you’d spend it on!

    • Jennifer

      I do this all the time. In fact, I have Amazon both wish lists AND spreadsheets!

    • Anon 42

      I’ve got a pretty aspirational Nordstrom wishlist, even though I’m a little concerned that just by doing so and thinking about buying expensive stuff, I’m slowly eroding my natural frugality and will start thinking that $500 is a non-insane amount to spend on a pair of shoes.

  33. Ellen

    I do NOT like it when any peeple bash me, but especialy when it is LOURINE.

    Lourine is just jelous of me. I have a good job and a JD degree, and I think I am JUST as pretty as Lourine.

    Yes, she is alot lighter then me and has more boyfreind’s, but she is NOT as tall as me. Also Lourine does NOT have a job at all and not a NOT high stress job like me.

    She watches TV all day and does NOT have to go in front of judge’s and argue case’s and EBT motion’s like me.

    Most importenatly, she does NOT have to sit with the manageing partner and watch him pick at his yellow teeth like me. FOOEY!

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