Suit of the Week: Banana Republic

90 Comments

1. I loved the thread this morning about morning routines! Can we do the same for evening routines? I’m one of the early morning people. Evening routine for me is something like this…

   4:30 – log off work and head downstairs (WFH)
   4:30 – 5: Try to entertain the kids and transition back to home time. Plus, if we eat dinner too early, then the evening gets too long
   5:15ish: Eat dinner, usually prepped the night before or during the day by my husband
   5:30ish: Clean up from dinner, prep for the next day, and clean up everything I possibly can while kids play
   6 – 7:00: Play with kids, maybe try to read a book while they play
   7 – 7:20: Snacks and a little TV time for the kids
   7:20 – 8: Bath, pajamas, and books routine for the kids
   8 – 9:00: Ideal is to do my face routine, finish any cleanup/prep, sit and read a book or listen to a podcast while cooking, go upstairs at 9 with lights out at 9:30. Actual is mindless snacking to celebrate the kids are in bed and the day is over, watch trashy reality tv, get upstairs closer to 10 and eventually collapse while skimming Instagram or otherwise wasting time

   1. A typical night:
      4:30: Leave work, retrieve kids.
      5:30: Arrive home, run to change out of work clothes as fast as possible. Husband has usually started dinner. One of us (usually husband) finishes up dinner while the other (usually me) hangs out with the kids.
      5:32: 5 y/o wants to watch TV. We want him to set the table so we don’t let him watch TV. Maybe he sets the table, maybe he hides underneath the table. 2 y/o wants to read a truck book. TRUCK BOOK MAMA!!!!
      5:40: Somebody sets the table.
      5:45: We eat dinner.
      6:05: Kids run around while husband and I finish up dinner / start clean up.
      6:15: I take the 2 y/o up to bed while husband sets 5 y/o up with an episode of PBS something. I typically put the 2 y/o to bed. 2 y/o will let my husband do potty/tooth brushing/story but wants me to be “horsey” these days.
      6:30: Hang out with 5 y/o. Whenever his TV episode is over (usually 6:40ish?) one of us starts heading him to bed. We try to start bedtime early so we have time for the protracted story/art/play/talking time he wants and can still get him actually into bed hopefully by 7:45. Husband and I try to trade off who does this bedtime because that way 5 y/o gets one-on-one time with each of us.
      7:50: I brush my teeth just in case I fall asleep from exhaustion. Husband and I watch a little TV, or maybe he plays a video game and I craft.
      9:00: Maybe garden? But maybe not, because I’m probably asleep.

      1. I’m so glad I’m not the only one with nearly an hour between leaving work and getting home with children in tow. It takes a frustratingly long time to commute and make school stops!

         1. It takes me a full hour to leave work, retrieve child, and get home too. I hate it. Audio books have really helped.

         2. It takes me 40 minutes to walk home at night, and usueally longer b/c I stop at either Citarella or Eli’s to get food for dinner if I don’t have anything good in my refridgerator, and that is why I eat to much b/c the food is so good. Once I eat, I watch TV and do case summaries for the manageing partner, and then some extra billings, and at 10 I watch Channel 5 news, then take a hot shower and am in bed by 11:15. That is my evening routine unless Myrna comes over in which case I do not do any billing, but we watch TV or stream a movie. Not the most exciting evening, but it’s better then having my ex huffeing and puffeing on top of me for 5 minutes and then rolling off and going to sleep. FOOEY on that!

   2. I don’t think we have enough of a routine to list like that. Hubby and I have personal trainer sessions after work M and W. He goes out for cycling and pizza with his friends on Tuesdays, and I usually go to the gym and make ramen for dinner while he is doing that. Other than that it’s come home, look at the mail, cook dinner and clean up, TV, maybe a dip in the spa, bed. But we often have projects or outings. Last night we installed FireSticks on all the TV’s and removed the cable boxes. Big fun!

   3. 515: leave work, head to daycare
      535-610: pick up kids, walk them home
      610-640: cook dinner
      640-655: eat
      7-720: youngest in bath, sometimes older kid will join, usually not. I get myself ready for bed (wash face, brush teeth, serums) and do some laundry in the bathroom while supervising. Spouse does the dishes and cleans up from dinner.
      720: youngest kid brush teeth, read book, goodnight kisses; older kid in bath
      730-740: youngest goes to bed
      740: older kid out of bath, sometimes a snack, brush teeth
      8: older kid is in bed, we read books, likely won’t fall asleep for another hour
      830: I’m in bed with a book (ideally) or instagram (less ideally), spouse deals with getting older kid to sleep
      9-930: I like to be lights out

   4. I want to get better at making good use of my evening time. Normally it’s work till about 5:30, get home at 6, go to the gym. Get home at 7, and either I cook, or my husband cooks and I putter around doing laundry, tidying up, checking email, etc until we eat around 7:30 or 8. Then it’s cleaning up the kitchen together, more puttering around, and getting sleepy by 9:30 – but the bad habit I want to break is that I then play or watch videos on my phone for about an hour which isn’t good for my sleep. I am trying to get back into reading an actual book or magazine in bed, instead of using the phone.

   5. It varies by day of the week for me a ton.

      Mondays and Thursday:
      5:30: leave work
      6:15: meet friends and go to the gym for a 6:30 class
      8:15 ish: arrive home and have dinner, then relax reading a book or sometimes watch tv
      11, but really more like midnight: go to bed

      Tuesday:
      5:30: leave work
      7 or 8 ish: go to trivia with friends. Depending on what bar we pick for that day, I’ll either go home, relaxing for 30 mins, and change first or go straight from work. Have dinner at the bar.
      Sometime between 10:30-11:30: arrive home from the bar, get ready for bed and read before going to sleep around midnight

      Wednesday:
      5:30: leave work
      6:00: arrive home, cook dinner, relax for the rest of the night OR meet up with a friend for dinner and to hang out for a few hours OR volunteer from 6:30-8.

   6. 5:00 – leave work
      5:05 – get in car in parking garage 1/4 mile away
      5:20 – arrive at Kid 1’s school and get in pickup line
      5:25 – Kid 1 gets in car
      5:35 – arrive at Kid 2’s school and go inside for pickup
      5:40 – get back in car to drive home
      5:45 – arrive at home
      6:15 – serve dinner
      7:15 – begin kids’ baths, wash and comb hair
      7:45 – put on PJs, brush teeth, lotion, wash faces
      8:00 – get kids in bed for stories
      8:30 – finish bedtime stories and lights out, go downstairs to watch TV or read phone on couch
      9:30 – head toward bed, put on PJs, brush teeth, get in bed
      10:00 (ideally, but in reality, whenever I’m too tired to keep my eyes open any longer) – lights out

   7. If not traveling:

      5:30ish Leave office and begin commute
      6:00 husband, who routinely says he doesn’t require dinner, calls to ask what is for dinner
      6:15 arrive home. Throw on apron and start some sort of dinner.
      6:30 husband reminds me that he doesn’t like to eat after 7. Son complains that he is hungry
      6:45 dinner
      7:00 force husband and son to do the dishes and drink a glass of wine
      7:30 either play piano or go upstairs and watch tv while knitting or playing puzzles on phone
      8:30 husband joins for music playing or tv watching
      9:30 face washing/teeth brushing, or a shower, depending on whether tomorrow is a gym day
      10:00 bed

      (I’m bitching about my husband here but he does at least 50%. He does all the laundry, all the grocery shopping, all the house maintenance/yard stuff, and all the bill paying.)

      1. I should add, this is only on non-travel days where I can leave work by 5:30. On days where I travel or can’t leave work by 5:30, there is no routine and lots of Uber Eats.

      2. I see you about the dinner thing. I walk in the door and straight into fixing the meal. Which is met with varying degrees of success and gratitude and little actual understanding of what making dinner entails (both spouse and child). I’ve tried to remedy this by asking for input during meal planning on the weekend and get met with such blank stares and comments that they don’t know what they want to eat for the week. Y’all, aa meal is served every night-stop acting like I just asked you to plan a state dinner in another country.

         1. Hahahaha I’m using that line next time.

   8. (We are on an early school schedule so I’m up at 5:45 and kids are up at 6:20 to be out of the door before 7am.)

      4:30 – leave work
      5:45 – arrive home with 2 kids (picked up from separate schools right now), unpack all our bags, make/assemble a meal while dealing with homework/paperwork from schools
      6:15 – serve dinner and talk with kids about their days during our meal
      6:45 – clean up table and kitchen
      7:00 – play with kids, listen to their stories, help with any remaining homework
      7:30 – begin showers/pajamas/bedtime routines
      8:00 – kids in bed reading with a flashlight, i sit on couch and stare at phone (usually shopping online for upcoming birthdays or holidays or updating lists like my meal plan or grocery list)
      8:30 – kids asleep, i start on chores like laundry or get in some extra work time
      9:45 – get in bed and either read a book or watch a show
      10:30ish – I’m asleep

   9. The time I leave depends on
      a) when my last class ends (5:00 on Tues and Thursday)
      b) what’s blowing up when I’m trying to leave or who stops me on the way out the door
      c) whether or not I can get out early on Fridays (because I’m here a lot later the other days)
      I go to the gym after work every day except Wednesday. I’m there for about an hour and a half.
      I go home, feed kitties, shower, have dinner (read while I’m eating) then do dishes, pay bills, clean up a bit, watch some TV and go to sleep by 11.
      On Wednesdays, I have rehearsal until 8:30 pm, and I go to Yogurtland on the way home.
      On Fridays, I go to Whole Foods on the way home from the gym.

      These days, I am trying to juggle all of that with dates, so everything is out of routine. On Monday, I went out for drinks after dinner and last night, a guy I have been seeing came over to help me make cookies (he used to own a bakery) and another guy invited me to the Pelicans game. It’s been kind of a lot to juggle when I’m busiest, but I’m really trying to be more spontaneous.

   10. If my husband and I are both home and do not have other activities scheduled, it’s like this:
       5- I’m off work and drive to the gym while listening to an audiobook.
       5:30- I meet my husband at the gym. Usually I run or bike for half an hour and lift for fifteen minutes.
       6:45- drive home from the gym, almost certainly by way of the supermarket
       7- if it’s my night to cook, I start dinner. If it’s his, I take a quick shower and perform all attendant grooming rituals.
       8- eat dinner and load the dishwasher. We could (and sometimes do) cook in less than an hour. But we like to have a glass of wine and discuss the day while whomever is cooking, is cooking.
       8:30- The cook showers. The non-cook theoretically picks up the house. We’re messy. We have a regular housekeeper, and we don’t actually pick up all that much.
       8:50-ish- we curl up on the couch to read or finish up work tasks. One way or another, I am wearing hilarious pajamas.
       9:30- tv
       10:30 (or when the show’s over)- brushing and flossing and what have you. I do my whole complicated skincare routine.
       10:45- lights off; I usually read on my kindle for fifteen or twenty minutes to wind down before falling asleep.

       Alternatively:
       Much later than I anticipated- leave work.
       After that- run a thousand errands and go to three dumb meetings.
       Finally- drive through Taco Bell for vegan tacos I will eat on the couch with two glasses of wine while watching some truly dumb shirt on Netflix and wearing my bathrobe over my work clothes.
       Then- determine, via text exchange, husband’s schedule is worse than my own that day. Pick up my bra and shoes from inside the front entry where I dropped them and retreat to the bathroom for a bubble bath.
       12am- bed

   11. I’m currently taking a break from running – this looks different when I am in training.

       Mon/Wed/Th/Fri:
       4:30/5:00 – leave work and either do errands or go home
       4:45/5:15 – (if no errands) feed the dogs (and cat) and take them for a walk
       6:00 – 8:30 – (if errands insert the last entry here) one or more of the following, eat dinner, go on a date, meet friends, sit on my couch and do a little more work/watch TV/read or do house work
       8:30 – wind down routine/prep for the next day (put dishes in dishwasher, pack lunch/gym bags if next day is a gym day, make coffee, generally tidy up)
       9:00 – let the dogs out and get ready for bed
       9:30 – in bed

       Tuesday:
       4:30 – leave work and head to barn
       5:15 – 7:30 – barn and riding lesson
       8:00 – get home and feed dogs and cat, walk dogs, shove food in mouth
       8:30 – wind down routine/prep for the next day (put dishes in dishwasher, pack lunch/gym bags if next day is a gym day, make coffee, generally tidy up)
       9:00 – let the dogs out and get ready for bed
       9:30 – in bed

       My evenings are generally very boring, and I like it that way!

   12. Keeping it real for everyone else who has a job more like mine.

       If I work in the office through the evening (~3 nights a week):
       Sometime 9 PM – 1 AM: leave the office, walk home (~15 minutes)
       Pack my lunch, choose my clothes for the next day and pack in gym bag
       Crawl into bed (usually ~45 minutes after I leave the office) wearing tomorrow’s gym clothes so I can get out the door faster the next morning

       If I work from home in the evening (~2 nights a week):
       Leave ~6, home around 6:15, set up there and log back on
       Break for ~20 min for dinner which my husband cooks sometime between 7-9
       Work for another few hours until I go to bed around 11-midnight

       Life is thrilling, but not on weeknights.

   13. Reading these I am shocked by (1) how much routine you all actually manage to have and (2) how early you leave work. Maybe 1 is a function of 2? I feel like a complete mess reading these.

       1. I mean, I have would have to get to work at like 6am to be able to leave at 5pm most days. But I also work very little if at all on typical weekends.

       2. Right? My “routine” is leave work … at 6? 7? 8:30? Depends on the day! Depends on my mood! How much work I have! Whether I’m bored! If I have an after-work commitment! If it’s raining! If I want to go to the gym! If the partners are still there … etc, etc…

          What is my “routine” for dinner, you ask? Also depends! Are there leftovers? Am I on a diet? Maybe I’m in the mood for Sweetgreen, or just eggs for dinner! Some days, I don’t have dinner, because I had a late lunch and I want to stay in the office late. Other days, it’s impromptu date with my husband. Or maybe I will go to Whole Foods, and then cook a meal from a new recipe I’m excited about. After dinner, it could be more work, tv, friends, read, gardening, cleaning… sleep between 11 and 1 am, depending on how sleepy I am.

          I CANNOT be the only person who doesn’t plan their day down to five-minute increments.

          1. This. It’s all mommies responding though. They need to be out the door at 4 to be with their sweeties by 4:10 and tuck themselves into bed by 9 pm. No wonder most of them have nothing to talk about besides their sweeties.

             1. Go away, the grownups are taking

             2. You tried this kind snotty baiting of moms last week on a completely unrelated topic and it was just as boring and tedious then. The schtick hasn’t gotten any better now. Take it someplace else, please.

          2. Be grateful your commute allows you to be flexible! If I miss my train (which, yes, is at the same time every day), my commute becomes a nightmare. I don’t miss that train.

       3. Mine is a function of being a single parent to two kids. Being forced to stay within the before/aftercare hours means my work hours shifted and I had to get super efficient with my evenings to keep everything on track. And I only have two hours to get dinner, homework, and bedtime all done with the kids, so I’m limited in how much that can shift. I work on the train and work even more on weekends to keep up.

          This all falls apart when they start to join activities with practices or games on weekday evenings, which I think is coming soon. I’m scared of how I’ll work through that, but hopefully they’ll be able to stay up a little later and I’ll continue to be able to push back on homework expectations.

       4. I was astonished by how involved their spouses are. I grew up in a house where my father would probably die if you step foot into the kitchen.

          I hope that once I am in a relationship, I’ll be able to negotiate some kind of balance similar like the replies I’ve read here. So tired of dates who don’t cook but don’t want restaurant food. I just can’t do it all forever.

          1. Don’t settle for less than what you need to make things work. My husband does the pickup every day (and has since my son was in kindergarten – before that he did the dropoff) and supervises homework. 2 weeknights a week my son has sports practice, which my husband takes him to, and dinner is “fend for yourself.” The other three weeknights my husband cooks dinner, so when I roll in from work at 6-6:30 homework is done, dinner is made, and usually my husband has done dishes and some laundry as well. (I do all the grocery shopping and I cook on the weekends – dinners and our meal-prep lunches – so it evens out, or at least he has no complaints.) I have friends who do the dropoff and the pickup, and all the shopping and all the cooking, and all the homework supervision and all the school activities, and all the laundry and all the cleaning. That is called “being a married single parent” and you’re better off just being a single mother by choice. From what I have been told, the workload is about the same but you’re not having to negotiate around a man-baby or listen to him whine about his needs.

             And those guys you’re dating that “don’t want to cook but don’t want restaurant food” and apparently expect you to cook for them? F that. Those are the guys who get married, have kids and dump everything on their wives – and then dump their wives for younger women when the wives get beaten down by years of unsupported toil and “aren’t any fun any more.” Run away. Fast.

          2. There would be one and only one date with a jerk like that. That’s the first step.

   14. Hah, just as my morning routine is vastly different to most of you, so too is my evening. I leave work around 6:30 most days and typically…
       M/T/TH:
       7:15 – Climbing gym, either to climb with friends or, if no one is around, do some auto-belays and then a yoga class
       If friends are there (most nights) – 9pm is now officially referred to as “beer o’clock” – we go to whatever bar has a special that night (there’s a rotating list), stay till about 11, then home and read/play on phone till bed time
       If no friends, I head home post yoga, sometimes via the grocery, heat up whatever is in my fridge/freezer (I’ve started trying to make batches in my instant pot on weekends) or order seamless, watch tv/read/knit/play on phone.
       Midnight – bed time, sometimes I read until I fall asleep.
       W:
       7:15 – get home, change, play on phone
       7:50 – leave for trivia
       8-10:15 – trivia night, including dinner because it’s at a restaurant/bar
       10:30 – home, read/play on phone until bed time
       Midnight – bed
       F:
       Sometimes a variation on the M/T/Th routine, sometimes I just meet people for dinner (somewhere that’s walking distance or short subway trip), sometimes I’m tired and have a busy weekend ahead so I just go home and drink wine on my couch in front of the TV.
       The above is peppered with bonus activities such as concerts, dates, book clubs, etc.

       1. Your life sounds really fun and interesting all those different things to do. I’m jealous!

   15. 4:30: leave work
       5:45: get home. hate my commute.
       5:45-9:00: stretching and/or core work, cook dinner, maybe watch a show, read a book in bed with husband.
       9:30: bedtime. Alarm at 5:45.

       On days I go to the barn, I leave work at 3:30 (after getting there at 7) and don’t get home until 7:45 or 8. Otherwise, I almost never go do anything special on a weekday and I prefer it that way. I prefer to store up my reserves for fun stuff on the weekends (skiing, hiking, back to the barn for more riding, etc.). Also, I very much do not “live to work.”

   16. 4:30: leave work
       5:00: pick up kids
       5:10: arrive home and usually sit and chill with kids for a bit
       6:00: start dinner
       6:30: eat dinner (my husband usually comes home around this time and so we will try and wait to eat with him. If it is the busy season and he is not home then me and the kids just eat).
       7:00: start homework (husband handles most homework) and clean up dinner (husband does dishes while monitoring homework) I make kids lunches for the next day.
       7:30: we always do something after dinner, when it is not winter we usually go for a bike ride to the park, when it is winter, we usually play a board game or a card game
       8:00: kids shower
       8:30: read books together
       9:00: kids in bed
       after the kids are asleep, I usually just sort of veg out, sometimes take a bath with a glass of wine or watch a show with my husband. I go to sleep around 10:00. He often stays up later and will do chores while watching TV like fold laundry. The kids are not in any weekday activities right now so that helps the evenings to go more smoothly.

   17. 1600: leave work
       1645: get home and launch into supper prep (usually something has been prepped the weekend before and my Au Pair has chopped some veggies or made rice etc)
       1730: family, sit down dinner
       1815-1830: wrap up dinner, husband and au pair do dishes while I hang out with the kids
       1900: head upstairs for bath and bedtime prep
       1900-1945: baths, reading
       2000: lights out for kiddies
       2000-2100/2200: very occasional errand, usually just minor lunch prep for the next day, quick look at kids backpacks, load of laundry, odd household admin, reading and sometimes TV in winter (or if I have a new baby). Occasional project like Xmas cards or Halloween costumes, potluck contribution for work.
       One night a month I have a Board Meeting and go straight from work. Maybe 4-6 times year I go out with friends or to an event such as networking or alumni. My husband is currently deployed and I am doing the above alone while on mat leave and I.Am.Tired.

   18. Wow, I guess people like me who work long hours must not be commenting or something. My routine is:

       7-8pm: leave office to catch the ferry (10min walk)
       9:45pm: arrive home (commute is 45min); sort out dishes from the morning and quickly organize pile of clothes and desk while watching a TV show or YouTube channel or listening to an audiobook.
       11pm: in bed.

       1. +1

2. I posted a while ago asking for minimalist furniture suggestions to go opposite my couch, and am posting to thank everyone for suggestions and tell you what I ended up doing.

   I ended up getting a MCM credenza/buffet that I LOVE and hanging some of my favorite art above it. The top has one table lamp and the inside is…. empty! Actually I have a candle, coaster and candle lighter thing in the top drawer and will sometimes light said candle. I really didn’t want to get a large piece of “storage furniture”when I don’t need it to store anything, but I realized that I love the way this piece completes the space and that in itself is a great function. To one side, I put my favorite reading chair, so I can use the credenza to put down my cup of tea and the lamp as a reading light.
   (FWIW, I live in a 900 sq ft condo with 1 child and 1 cat and not much stuff).

   1. Sounds lovely! And having the option of storage is always helpful – you never know when you might need a place to put some additional stuff.

   2. What’s MCM?

      1. Not op but mid century modern

   3. Looking for something similar, please link!

3. For the person yesterday worried about picking a health plan and breaking a leg while traveling…I did break a leg while traveling (in another state)! So I’d recommend picking a health plan that isn’t just local, if possible. But realistically if that happens you’d probably just end up paying to the out of pocket max. I got lucky and the hospital the ambulance took me to happened to be in network. And it was near the end of that year so I only paid a few hundred dollars to bring me to my in network out of pocket max for the year. The worst part was fighting the ambulance charges, my insurance wouldn’t pay more than they thought was fair, and the ambulance company wanted $2500 on top of that.

   1. I think a lot of insurance plans treat ER visits as in network regardless of whether the hospital is actually in their provider network. We took our baby to an ER when traveling out of state once (she didn’t need to go to the ER but we were paranoid first time parents and infants seem so fragile). It was pretty much all covered since we’d already met our deductible that year when I gave birth.

      1. Actually, my experience says the opposite. I keep the (Fed BCBS) option that pays better for out-of-network because our local ER often rotates through doctors who are not local and not in-network.

      2. Yeah, I ended up having surgery and such, so it wasn’t just an ER copay.

4. Artist types! Our town has a casual artist’s studio/guild type place, where all the artists display their work and kids can take pottery lessons, etc. I have been on the hunt for The Most Perfect Christmas House with Elves Cookie Jar Ever and simply can’t find one. Could I commission something like that from a potter (to start from scratch with clay) or painter (to start with a ceramic form and bring to life)? I’m the least artistic person ever, so I don’t know if a local artist would want to try to bring my idea to life…I’m so not artistic that I’m even embarrassed to call and see if this is a thing they’d do. Thoughts?

   1. Yes, this should be doable. But A) pay them. And either B) tell them very clearly what you want or C) accept their creative vision whole. Craft commissions are subject to scope-creep and miscommunication like any other venture, but without a cultural norm of respect.

   2. Yes but be prepared to spend a lot of money – several hundred dollars at least.

5. You’re the junior partner on a growing, well-regarded account (let’s be real: you do all the work). You just closed a deal with the account last week – a first for your firm, and they’re singing your praises. You’re also the only woman between your firm and the client. You’re headed to NYC tomorrow for a meeting, project tour, and dinner to discuss the next, 2-3x sized deal. Client gets [gifted? some sort of connection? it’s unclear] tickets for a UFC fight. Client assumes you don’t want to go, your senior partner validates that assumption, and then calls you to tell you dinner is moved up to 5pm and there is no ticket to the fight for you, but he is going along with the client. Assume there are no readily available tickets for purchase to the public. They’re also for some special VIP type seating arrangement/suite.

   On the one hand, RAGE in it’s most absolute and purest form. I was counted out because two people made an assumption that I wouldn’t be interested, and let’s be real, it’s because I’m a girl.

   On the other hand, I fight small, incremental battles and not wars. I have been for 10 years and counting. I’m a relative anomaly having gotten this far as a woman in a niche of this industry. I have 1,000% more to gain by not upsetting any ships (ie making the client feel bad for excluding me, making it ‘a thing’, etc.) and working on the next deal, adding it to my resume, making a ton of money off of it, rising to a c-suite and then banishing all of them in 10 years (I dream..). But, yea. The business world has got to do better. Sigh.

   1. That sucks and I’m here to support you in your goal of banishment. Good luck!

   2. What’s the downside to telling the senior partner off?

      1. I can see plenty of downside to that, but no downside to a slightly passive aggressive “Oh wow, next time I’d really appreciate the invite. Time like that with the client can be so valuable.” And then completely letting it go (until you banish him in 10 years).

      2. Uh unless she gets 0% of her business/referrals from him, there is a TON of downside. I’d say something about appreciating an invite next time but I wouldn’t full on tell him off.

         And it’s these particular people, not all people. In a similar situation I got invited to a rodeo — by a group of men who knew a northern woman would have no idea about it/no real interest but they weren’t going to exclude me. So don’t think that it’ll ALWAYS be like this.

   3. That really sucks, I’m sorry.

   4. Are you going to the dinner but not going to the UFC event? I would prefer that actually. If you are now excluded from both, that’s annoying, but it does sound like you have built a solid partnership with this customer so you don’t really have to be concerned about this one event.

      1. You get why it’s still frustrating though, right?

         1. I get why it is frustrating but I am also not interested in going to a UFC event…I wouldn’t insist on going to a UFC event to prove a point or to ensure that I am not excluded….that’s just me, YMMV

            1. Are you in client services? Because yeah often you do go to events you couldn’t care less about — it’s not about the event or about being “included,” it’s about biz gen and solidifying the relationship and just being there.

            2. thank you for using couldn’t care less correctly. Pet peeve.

   5. OMFG. All the rage.

   6. I would be furious and I would have hurt feelings form being excluded. It is so sexist. I am the only woman in my group (patent litigation) and the guys I work with would definitely not do this, and have not done this for vaguely analogous things – NBA and college football games. Also, I would be interested in going to a UFC fight in the first place.
      They used to preface things with “you don’t have to go if you aren’t interested” to things like sports or whiskey tasting or the other super stereotypical bro-ey things they do, but still would ask me and make me feel included when there. To be fair, it probably helps I like things like sports and alcohol tastings, but still.
      I would have a talk with these people you work with and make it clear that if there is a client event that they should not assume you are uninterested without asking you first. I’d likely avoid raising it’s sexist – that should be implied unless these guys are beyond dense.

   7. Ugh, so annoying! I would be extremely upset as well. It would be very, very difficult for me not to make some snarky comment. On the one hand, they need to know that’s not ok. On the other hand, rise higher? I’d actually be curious what ask a manager’s take would be.

   8. I would definitely speak up. “I would have liked to go to that. Please include me next time”

      1. But, aside from the unsolicited advice, my sympathies. Back in the late 1990s/early 2000s, it was routine after client dinners for one of my male colleagues to say to me and the maybe one or two other women who were at the dinner “so… what are you ladies up to tonight?” Meaning they were taking the client to a strip club. Ugh!

         1. Gross. There’s some kind of club in town where a lot of the big name attorneys go for lunch/drinks; it’s The Place To Go with clients after court (the food is terrible, btw, I have no idea why these people love this place). The club allows women now. But I know several women attorneys who remember being stopped at the door and told they could not join their team for lunch or happy hour because women aren’t allowed. Imo it really shows your colleagues’ true colors – do they find another, albeit less prestigious lunch spot so their whole team can join? Or do they say, well you’re just an associate I guess we’ll see you after lunch.

   9. So this is me but I’m passive aggressive like this. I would spend every waking moment between now and the client meeting reading up on UFC. Listening to podcasts. Learning the lingo. Researching the fight. If UFC betting is a thing, I’d research odds, and if legal/easy to do, put down like $5 so I can say I have money on the game and I’ll be watching intently from [local sports bar that I called ahead to make sure they always play UFC].. Then if/when it comes up, I would excitedly tell the client it’s so cool they’re getting to go to the fight, I’ve been looking forward to this match ever since [sportsguy] won [sportsthing] and what do they think of how [so and so] is doing this year?

      1. Haha there was a time in my life when I could have done this for reals, back in the ca. UFC 1 days when I was practicing mixed martial arts myself!

      2. I love this.

      3. This is so subversive, and I deeply love it. Because you know senior partner probably won’t know half as much as OP would with this motivation to learn.

         Seriously though, so frustrating.

6. Lawyers, I’m curious how many people your support staff support. We are set up where our assistants support less attorneys than most other firms but are frequently overworked and behind and we are trying to figure out why. We are a small firm and the assistants either handle 1.5 litigators, 1 litigator and 1 corporate attorney, or 1 estate planning attorney. At other firms, the support staff seem to support 4 attorneys. I can identify two things that distinguish us from other firms. We only have one very part time paralegal so a lot of paralegal work falls to the assistants. Second, all attorneys have their own case load so it’s not like a partner and associate with one combined case load share an assistant. Each attorney is a full case load. Lastly, as a general practice firm I think we have higher volume than more specialized firms.

   How are you structured?

   1. At the firms I’ve been in, it’s either one assistant to three attorneys or an “assistant team” of 4-5 assistants that together support 10 to 12 attorneys – they operate like a little factory working together on larger projects, taking over when someone is out. I liked the latter better as this resulted in high efficiency and getting projects done quicker. In addition, it allowed more coverage as they’d stagger their start and finish hours (two were 7-4, two were 9-6).

   2. My assistant supports 4 attorneys, and others at my firm will support between 3 and 6 attorneys. But none of our assistants do any paralegal work, they are not cite checking briefs, not preparing deposition exhibits, not preparing exhibit lists. The main things my assistant does for me are mailing documents, coordinating getting copies of documents printed with our copy center, booking travel, and some times printing and preparing binders of sets of documents I send her. For the partners, she also does a lot of billing work and enters time.

   3. Yeah, sounds like you need a different parlegal setup.

      1. *paralegal

      2. I’m trying to convince the managing partner of this. No luck so far but it is my goal for next year. I’m “just” a senior attorney so I can’t force him to do anything.

7. I usually wear heels 2-3 days a week, and as I edge toward forty, I’ve started noticing myself less and less able to wear truly high high heels. Has anyone else encountered this? And had any success reversing such a trend?

   (FWIW, I fully acknowledge that wearing shoes with a four inch heel is rather far from ideal from a health perspective. But I also rather relish the option to ratchet up my height when dealing with substandard white guys.)

   1. Speaking as someone whose back started getting wonky at 20, it’s not an age thing. But yeah, tall tall heels on a regular basis is just impractical. Why not keep high heels under your desk and just wear them to meetings? I’m at the point where I do wear them regularly but they’re only from “comfort” brands and 1.5 in or less.

      Tbh four inch heels in a work place, unless you’re abnormally short, like 4’11, always read “hooker heels” to me and pretty inappropriate.

      1. I _am _ abnormally short.

      2. This is a regional thing, LA rocks stilettos. I find switching up the shoe style helps, so not everything is a classic pump. Shooties, pointed toe carved wedges, etc.

   2. Lol no that’s getting old.

   3. Your arches might be falling. Good arch support can help.

      Also, you probably know this, but the quality of the shoe matters a lot more the older you get.

   4. I’m 54 and used to wear heels. I actually wish I hadn’t but that’s another story. Anyway, as you get older, you lose fat on the bottom of your feet. That’s why it hurts so much more to stand around in heels as you get older. I got to the point where just waiting for the bus meant the bottom of my feet were burning.

      Things had to change, and they did. I was early to mid 40s when I started buying Cole Haan low wedges, not too long after their partnership with Nike Air was introduced.

      Now I have serious feet problems and I can’t even wear those.

      This the the “another story” you didn’t ask for, but I do think my history of wearing heels has contributed to the state of my feet now – frequent bouts of plantar fasciitis, and a real problem with Morton’s Neuroma in my right foot.

      This absolutely affects my day to day life and my ability to do things other people take for granted, like being able to spend a day walking around a city like New York or Paris.

      Not the question you asked, but please give it some thought and give the very high heels a rest. (4” is very high.) Maybe once a week or for special occasions.

   5. With the caveat that I’m I’m 5’9”, I think you should embrace the trend towards flats. When I wear 2” heels in my office, I feel like I’m towering over everyone because no one wears heels anymore.

   6. Nope–no reversing it, I’m afraid. Your feet will only get worse, although it seems some women manage to soldier on into late middle age and beyond in high heels.

      I’m 51. I like heels–always have–and still run around in 2-2.5″ heels (mostly boots) probably three or more days in a typical week. That said, I have to choose my poison carefully. My feet are a lot bonier than when I was younger, and one foot has gone wonky. Relatively sturdy heels, arch support, good padding, and quality leather matter. I no longer wear anything over 3″ even for dressy evenings.

      I hear what you’re saying about the height advantage. Could you pace yourself? Wear something more comfortable and sustainable most of the time, and keep a towering pair under your desk for moments of need.

   7. I am 43 and just realized this week that I can’t even wear my 2-3 inch heeled boots every day for a week without experiencing foot and ankle pain. I regularly wore 3-4 inch heels until I was about 38 and then it just got to be too much. I can still wear 3-inch heels for limited periods if they are from Ecco or another brand that focuses on quality construction. Cheaper/”fashion” shoes – forget it. No one I know over 40 wears heels regularly any more and one woman I know in her 50s had to have surgery on her Achilles tendons from wearing too-high heels too much, for too long. Anon at 6:42 has an interesting story (I am sorry about your foot problems, Anon) that I think it’s worth heeding. I would rather forego heels now so I can cruise around Paris all day in my 60s if I want.

   8. Shoes are apparently not great for foot strength. I was able to strengthen my feet again by wearing minimalist “barefoot” sandals (the ones I used were xero) and doing barefoot foot exercises. This restored my endurance for wearing heels and also “any shoes that don’t have enormous orthotics in them,” which is what my doctor wanted me to do.

      I know heels take a lot of flack for women’s feet problems, but I’ve read that women’s feet are prone to issues whether they wear heels or not.

8. I have a guy friend who I think might have a crush on me. But I have decided a long time ago that I was not attracted to him (despite trying really hard). Not to sound superficial, but he is quite big (might be mildly obese), and his face looks like Jordan Peele. Although he has a good personality, I just am not attracted to men significantly fatter than me. I have suggested working out to him in the past, and he does work out once a week, but he is still quite big and his entire family looks obese to me.

   Every time we grab lunch/dinner, he would spend parts of the conversation just staring longingly at my lips. When we say goodbye, he would always try to hug me every chance he gets and do it for an extra long time and just grab me really close. Although I enjoy conversations, and he has given me a lot of useful career tips (we are both lawyers at law firms), it nauseates me whenever he gets to too close or stares at my lips. I also find it annoying that he is always trying to ask me out for dinner or “play tennis” when I find them basically dates. It also really annoys me jay the few times where we had dinner, he was always trying to pressure me to drink alcohol (it feels like he thinks that if I drink alcohol, I might sleep with him, which is just so gross to me as an idea). I always just tell him that I am too busy but can do a quick lunch. Then he does this thing where, I guess he doesn’t want to appear too eager, so he will take 3-5 days to get back to me on whether he can do lunch (and usually by then my plans have changed so I get to turn him down that way). This makes me think that he is not actually a “nice guy” who just happens to be fat.

   Anyway, I am just so disgusted every time he stares at my lips that I have been declining his invitations to dinner/lunch lately. However, I feel like I am missing out on a valuable source of professional information this way. What should I do?

   1. If you aren’t attracted to him, don’t like the way he treats you, and are creeped out by him, why do you still hang out with him? Presumably you’ve turned him down for dates and such, so he’s aware you’re not interested and doesn’t care.

   2. Ew you need to not hang out with him. This whole setup has a gigantic ick factor.

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