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Updated: Sep 8, 2023 240 Comments · by

Weekend Open Thread

Weekend Open Thread

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slip-on white sneaker to wear with work outfits

Something on your mind? Chat about it here.

These simple slip-ons from Vionic have been some of the most-bought items at Amazon in the past few months, ever since we included them on our list of the best sneakers for work outfits.

As we noted then, this brand is a longtime reader favorite for comfort, including a three-zone comfort system “that promotes stability and natural alignment from the ground up.” Nice!

You can find a bunch of colors for $118 at Amazon; Zappos also has a few colors if you prefer their return policy. (Vionic only has a few colors right now.)

Sales of note for 9.30.24

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. Anonymous

    I’m hosting Rosh Hashanah for 17 people next week. Should I do brisket or a few big logs of filet? im also doing salmon. ( the brisket lovers prefer brisket but one of the guests will only eat filet.). They’re both expensive, although legend has it that once brisket was cheap.

    • Senior Attorney

      I feel like brisket would be easier — filet is pretty easy to ruin. Maybe get one filet for Ms. or Mr. Fussypants.

    • Anon

      I would tell any guest who informed me that they would only eat filet mignon to bring their own. The nerve.

      Do the brisket. Much easier not to overcook, since overcooking is the point, and also delicious.

      • Op

        That was phrased wrong; she’s absolutely not a brat she just dislikes brisket. She’ll eat filet or salmon or whatever else. If anyone is the filet snob it’s me.

        I feel like brisket is a day long affair of getting the sauce perfect and the thing tender but no so tender that it shreds and filet is salt and pepper and 45 minutes start to finish but maybe I’m misremembering the effort involved. And people do love that brisket is traditional and special. Anyway thanks!

    • Anne-on

      If anyone is observent I’d go for brisket as kosher filet is hard to find (it just wasn’t sold at the kosher butchers near me at all). I swear by Smitten Kitchen’s sweet and sour brisket recipe. I prep the ingredients and set it to cook overnight (12-13 hours depending on the size) and then rest it in the fridge until 4pm or so when I heat it up. I find it always needs a bit longer to cook than you think, and gently rewarming it is the key to not having tough brisket.
      Brisket, buttered egg noodles and roasted veggies scream ‘holiday!’ to me – the brisket is also so easy that you have more time for dessert (I do these for Passover with cocoa powder instead of flour and whipped cream on the side: https://smittenkitchen.com/2016/02/belgian-brownie-cakelets/)

      • Anonymous

        No one is close to observant but thanks so much! I couldn’t remember which smitten kitchen recipe was the one I liked. The point about tradition is a good one!

        • Anne-on

          We are also not observent but it definitely makes me verklempt when my son talks about how much he loves brisket and how it’s one of his favorite holiday traditions. Ha, and at least since it’s in a cookbook he’ll be able to recreate it when he gets older – we’re still reverse engineering my great-grandma’s kugel as nobody can agree on the fruit she used and if it was pot cheese, cottage cheese, or cream cheese!

    • Anon

      Brisket and salmon. End of story. My mom used to make our brisket every year, and I never knew that the last year was going to be the last year until she was gone.

      Signed, “a traditionalist”

  3. Anne

    Chiming in on the head of state/head of gvt conversation earlier. I 100% think the US should have them be two separate positions but both elected. Let’s elect a ceremonial head of state who is charismatic, has a good back story, and we’d like to have a beer with. Then, let’s elect a head of government who is good at running things and making things happen within the mechanisms of government. Mixing the two has not gone well in the modern era IMHO.

    • Anon

      What is the point of a ceremonial person though? I don’t want to pay to maintain two first families.

      • Monday

        Yeah, I’d rather just have one person who truly sees it as a humble service job. The test is not whether you’d want to have a beer with them, but whether you’d want to be assigned a group project with them, or leave your kids with them.

        • Cornellian

          omg “whether you’d want to be assigned a group project with them” is amazing. that is the best way to summarize it.

      • Anonymous

        The ceremonial person can hold state dinners, greet athletes, visit disaster areas, do opening ceremonies, go to royal funerals, all of those things that are basically representation. Somebody else can make budgets and hold the n*clear codes.

        • bird in flight

          All of this, and also set a national tone for the country. The fact is that the way that the President projects themselves and the status of the country really matters to the public discourse and general feeling of the country. See Trump White House vs. every other President. I think the Trump administration really broke some of our communal goodwill towards each other, and part of the weakness of the Biden administration is that he hasn’t been able to rebuild this (partly because I think he’s too old and doesn’t have the energy for it; a Biden 15 years ago would have been a totally different story).

        • Anon

          But why would anyone want to meet with this ceremonial person who doesn’t do anything?

          • Anon

            I agree!

            To the poster who referenced the British Royal family— I’m glad we don’t have a family like that in the US.

          • Anonymous

            Yes – US system produces much more dignified state reps than the constitutional monarchies of Europe or Asia.

          • Anon

            Huh? I can simultaneously think that some of our reps are a shit show while also still not wanting to support a royal family or a random new figurehead person who serves no real function.

    • Anon

      I mean we kind of do. The head of government who is good at running things is the cabinet.

    • Senior Attorney

      When Ronald Reagan was president I often thought he’d have made a good king, although I despaired of him as president. (Not, I hasten to add, that I wouldn’t take him back in a red hot second in place of most of the ones we’ve had since.)

      • bird in flight

        Oh that’s an intriguing thought experiment! Just in ceremonial roles alone, I think Bush Jr and Obama would have made good kings. No to Clinton, Trump, or Biden. Those are the presidencies that I remember well enough to have feelings about.

    • Anonymous

      Problem with electing people is you just end up with white males. I like that the majority of our GGs in the last two decades have been female visible minorities.

      But it is why so many constitutional monarchies are stable democracies – it helps to have a state representative that is politically more neutral or a role that requires neutrality.

    • Anonymous

      This would really solve an issue I encounter where people insist on voting for an incompetent charismatic idiot because he is their vision of “presidential” while the other experienced, competent candidate is not. I still don’t personally see how Trump is “presidential”, but some people are susceptible to narcissistic egoism and showmanship, and the GOP and social media is doing a great job making Biden appear like a dottering fool through repeatedly spreading selective video clips.

    • Anonymous

      You have clearly never worked at a company with an executive chair (usually a semi-retired founder) and a President/CEO.

  4. Anon

    Please give me tips for selling a car privately. Is Craigslist still a good place or is that out of date now? Facebook Marketplace?
    Fwiw, not trading into a dealer or online dealer like Carvana because they’ve told us it’s worthless and will be junked. The car is old (1999) but reasonably low mileage (~150k), a very reliable brand (Toyota Camry) and has been maintained well and runs great. I’m not looking or expecting to make big bucks from this transaction, but I imagine a local teen will pay a few hundred bucks for it, and most importantly I would really like it to go to a good home and not a junkyard.

    • Anon 2.0

      Craigslist is outdated and full of nothing but scams. If you aren’t worried about making money on it what about donating it to a local charity that can get it into good hands?

      • Anon

        Maybe this is regionally different? Craigslist works pretty well in the Bay Area.

        • Anon

          Really? I’m in the Bay Area and haven’t touched CL in years because of all the scammers.

          • Anon

            Specifically for selling cars maybe? I just sold some landscaping stuff on CL, got free moving boxes and passed them on to the next person, bought furniture and also get free stuff regularly.

          • Anon

            If you were looking for a first car for your teenager, I guarantee you you’d end up looking at craigslist.

    • Anon

      To my chagrin, my husband buys and sells old cars all the time. He’s still using craigslist and his last buyer was indeed a teen, who just handed him the cash and my husband had to tell him to at least try to negotiate haha.

    • Senior Attorney

      I’d just ask around to my friends and see if they know anybody who’s in the market.

      • Anon

        I would post this on my FB status and see who bites. One of my friends just sold a similar car (2003 Accord) that way.

        1999 Camry, low mileage for the age, good running order – these days, someone might pay upwards of $2k for it.

    • Anon88

      I have given up on Craigslist at this point because FB Marketplace gets so much more action in my area. Also I feel like there’s slightly more credibility on FB because you can view the person’s profile and they may have reviews if they’ve sold or bought things on marketplace before. I’ve bought a car on Marketplace and it worked well for me.

    • Anonymous

      I believe my coworker used nextdoor to sell his ’94 camry to a local high school student a few years ago. Maybe worth asking a local high school if they have a way to reach teens who might want to buy a car – the newspaper classifieds section if they have one or some sort of email or private facebook group?

    • Anon

      We tried to sell our 96 Camry in 2016 and even thought it was low mileage and ran well, it wasn’t easy to find a buyer. Most parents do not want their teen driving a car that old. Also, ours had some cosmetic issues. Since there are still a bunch on the roads, I’d try selling it to a mechanic who will use it for parts.

      • Anon

        I am not discounting your experience, but would like to note that the used car market has changed a LOT since 2016.

        • Anon

          Yeah, with the wait times for new cars today, any car that runs will have a buyer. And Toyota is known to be a very good brand.

    • Anonymous

      My town has an unofficial used car lot where people park their cars and write their phone number and the price on it. Facebook Marketplace and Craiglist also are popular in my area, but have to be careful for scams.

    • Anon

      FB Marketplace is where all of the action is now where I live (metro Atlanta). Someone out there will be more than thrilled to get their hands on your car for a reasonable price. Three of my kids drove a 2000 Camry that I acquired in 2015 when it had 35K miles. It was older than one of the kids who learned to drive in it. We passed it on to my nephew, and he is still driving it.

      • Anon

        Ha! My neighbor just bought my very well loved and very well maintained 2007 Honda Accord with 260K miles for his teen . It never occurred to me that the car was older than the driver!

    • Anon

      Insist on cash or a cashier’s (bank) check. Nothing else as a form of payment, as venmo and paypal can be reversed.

      • Paula Render

        There are cashier’s check scams too. I forget how they work, but definitely Google. It has to do with the fact that Congress in its infinite wisdom passed a law requiring banks to clear checks within 2 or 3 days even though checks can’t actually always be cleared in that time. So the bank clears it and you think you’ve got your money, but then it turns out that the cashier’s check is not good and the bank reverses it.

    • Cerulean

      We used cars dot com last year since we aren’t on Facebook. Easy and less scammy than Craigslist. My husband met up with prospective buyers in a parking spot designated for online sales at our local police station. Worked great!

      • Anonymous

        The last time we bought a car in cash from a private seller, we met at our bank, pulled out the money, and transferred money inside the lobby, which felt safe for everyone.

    • Anne

      People email our town listserv with offers to sell used cars in our town — works well and goes quickly.

    • Anon

      I’m in an area where parking any functioning car towards the road with a paper for sale sign taped in the window means it will be sold for asking price within a month.

    • Anonymous

      There are people in your own neighborhood who would be so grateful to receive a gift of a car like that if you’re willing. A local single mom spending too much time waiting on public buses, newly arrived refugees trying to get on their feet. There are just so many people in need if you’re willing.

    • Anonymous

      We just bought a car off eBay. It was great. The seller was about an hour away in the next state. We won the bid, drove over and test drove the car, and bought it. Very smooth.

    • Kelsey

      Have you looked at the Blue Book value for your car? The Blue Book value for our 2003 Honda Accord was only about $600, so we decided to donate it to a charity instead (in case you’re wondering, we gave it to the Make a Wish Foundation) and the charity has a contract with a company that towed our car off from our driveway and then auctioned off the car. Later, we learned that the car was auctioned for $4,500(!) so we were provided a donation receipt to take a tax deduction for that amount. I have no idea what happened to the car, but I’m happy we were able to help the Make a Wish Foundation.

  5. Anonymous

    i posted late on the morning thread – what’s everyone’s skin care routine for your neck? if you’re using retinol, are you using prescription or OTC and how often? (50 and just noticed that my waddle under my double chin is beginning to get that crepe-y look)

    • Anon

      I use the same products on my neck and chest that I use on my face. Gentle cleanser (J&J Basis liquid) and oil-free moisturizer with SPF (Neutrogena hydroboost gel) during the day and Topix Replenix at night (alternating retinol 5x regenerate dry serum and age restore bio-repair serum every other night). In my late 50s in the sunbelt, I routinely get compliments on my skin.

      PSA: it is never too soon to start wearing sunscreen, UPF hats and UPF high-necked clothing. Although I have been doing all since the early 1990s, the cumulative sun damage from before then ultimately showed through the skin so badly that I had to have it laser-treated. Do yourself a favor and avoid that.

    • Anon

      I use a lot of my skincare products all the way down to my decolletage, most importantly SPF (always! every single day!) but can’t quite tolerate my tretinoin there. My neck gets niacinimide, vitamin c, peptides and hyaluronic acid from all of my non-tretinoin products.

      But I have sensitive skin, and when I have a reaction to any skincare (usually SPF), it’s typically the worst on my neck.

    • Elle

      I use ROC Retinol Correxion on my neck and haven’t experienced any side effects.

  7. anon

    Fashion sneakers are great, but if I’m walking around all day, I still feel better when I wear “real” athletic shoes. I am not trying to win any fashion contests. Any thoughts on On Cloud shoes for this purpose? My favorite running shoes are the Brooks Ghost, so that would be another option, maybe in a more neutral color than bright purple (my current running pair).

    • anon

      I’m a fan of brooks ghost and recently I bought a pair of vintage-y looking new balance for walking around purposes and highly recommend. There are also tons of cute Nikes now too.

    • Anon Pls

      I was recently in London and ran into that exact problem with my fashion sneakers. I bought a pair of On Cloud shoes and they were perfect for the rest of the trip. Managed to get all white so still fashionable.

    • Anonymous

      I love the On Clouds. I’m on my feet all day, and I wear mine to work every single day (very casual workplace)

    • Anonymous

      I think this is the purpose of On Clouds. They are not comfortable enough and don’t fit well enough for actual running, but they fit better and are more comfortable for walking than fashion sneakers.

    • Anon

      Brooks Addiction is their walking shoe. It’s decidedly not fashionable, but everyone I know who wears them swears by them.

  8. Paging Euros Poster

    For the poster who was asking about buying euros last week, I have some info that may help you if your trip hasn’t already occurred. I know the traditional advice is to get the cash at an ATM when you arrive, and that is completely fine, but I didn’t want to do that. Sharing this only for info in case it helps you.

    I went into my bank branch (Capital One) and asked to order euros. You tell them how many euros you want and they tell you how much will be deducted from your account. They fill out a form and the euros come in in 2 business days or less. Today the exchange rate at the bank was 1.145 (compared to the 1.07 listed if you just search the exchange rate on g o o g l e). There were no other fees or charges. When I asked why the rate was slightly higher, they explained that it was because the rates listed online are for billions of dollars and so smaller amounts have a slightly higher rate. The difference between the online rate and the amount I paid was less than $40 and I didn’t have to worry about ATM fees or finding the ATM or whatever, so I felt like it was worth it.

    Hope that helps in case you’re still considering it and enjoy your trip! :)

    • Anonymous

      Yes this is great if you want a worse exchange rate and more time consuming experience than just going to the ATM

    • Anon

      “When I asked why the rate was slightly higher, they explained that it was because the rates listed online are for billions of dollars and so smaller amounts have a slightly higher rate.”

      Just FY, that’s not accurate or at least not a complete explanation. Credit cards get the online rate (or very, very close to it). Like I would believe a credit card is 1.075 instead of 1.07, but there’s no way it’s anywhere near 1.1.

    • anon

      I had no idea foreign currency from a bank was so controversial with this group. My two cents are the bank is great if either, first, you just want a bit of cash or, second, you need more cash than you can get out at the daily limits from your ATM card. And, Wells Fargo does this as well at pretty good rates but they need a day or two since the banks no longer stock foreign currency.

      • Cerulean

        I wouldn’t say it’s controversial, it’s just that it’s pretty easy to avoid using cash in many countries these days, so there’s no reason to go to all that effort.

        • Anon

          +1 The American reliance and insistence on cash is so bizarre to me. And if you do need cash, use an ATM!

          • anon

            You’d still want cash for things like tipping at the hotel, paying for a bus ride, or eating street food. The coconut cart in Mexico isn’t going to accept card payment for a 40 pesos coconut. I’ve gotten souvenirs from shops in Japan who only accept cash. I agree that you don’t need cash for everything and that the ATM is the best choice for cash, but some people feel more comfortable having cash on hand before they arrive and that’s okay.

        • Anon

          +2 I haven’t taken cash out on any of my post-pandemic foreign trips. And ATMs are still widely available in Europe, so should you find yourself needing cash, you can just go to one.
          It seems extremely dumb to me to pay $40 to avoid using an ATM, but you do you, I guess.

      • Anonymous

        WTF is going on during your vacations that you need to be able to access thousands in cash every day?

      • anon

        I feel that this group trends smart and travel savvy so their answers skew ATM/electronic payment. I’m also ATM/electronic payment/local exchange at a jewelry store/local exchange with a fellow tourist etc. because I’m comfortable operating that way. My parents who are more anxious about travel and foreign currency would prefer getting cash from the bank pre trip. They’d have to look for the ATMs, wouldn’t know which ATM to use (some are not bank owned and charge a pretty fee), wouldn’t know to decline conversion (always withdraw or pay in local currency!). Having cash on hand pre landing is valuable for people like my parents. So while my general advice is to get cash upon arrival, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with someone wanting it pre departure.

      • Anon

        It’s just that most places are not cash dependent anymore, it’s a US thing. I like taking it off the to-do list.

        • Anon

          Yup, been to Italy, Spain, Portugal and Iceland in the last couple of years and zero need for cash anywhere. There are places I’m sure you still need cash. But western Europe is not that place.

    • Anonymous

      How insane are your ATM fees? My bank charges like $5 for an international withdrawal and I can’t remember the ATM charging more than like $4 or $5. I go to Europe for 2-3 weeks each year. Never get cash out before I go, get some at and ATM once or twice and use credit card or phone app for everything else.

  9. Anonymous

    are people still wearing loafers? (with dresses?) can anyone recommend a specific shoe? i’m late to the trend.

      • bird in flight

        Same! I bought some cognac colored Sperry loafers a few years ago and they are a nice staple.

    • Anon

      I wear Gucci loafers with dresses all the time. It looks a little frumpy but they’re comfortable and professional.

    • Cerulean

      I’m wearing Madewell Frances loafers today. Super comfy and have held up very nicely since I bought them two years ago.

      • Of Counsel

        It is amazing how many people use “frumpy” to describe any style they find unattractive (or can remember people wearing in their youth).

        I don’t personally like the way loafers look with skirts and dresses but I don’t personally like a lot of trends. I don’t personally like the way bright white sneakers look with dresses, but both are current looks and are great on the right person.

    • Anonymous

      I am.
      I should say, though, that I’m probably not ‘people’ because I don’t follow trends at all…

  10. Anon

    How much does hiring a lawyer to handle the execution of a will / serve as a trustee typically cost?

    Also, pray for me. Mother died and my brother found out he is no longer the trustee, our other brother is. He has been verbally abusing him for the past 24 hours over text and in-person. Most recent update is his wife called our sister to inform her that my trustee brother is cutting sister out of the will. Absolutely baseless, but designed to fragment and destroy the relationships. Ugh. I’m sad.

    • Anonymous

      I’m so sorry you are dealing with this. Big hugs to you and your siblings (the nice ones).

    • anon as well

      I’m so sorry. I’ve dealt with family behaving badly after a death and it’s absolutely miserable to lose not just your parent, but also your living family. Take care of yourself and take care of your well-behaved family.

    • Explorette

      There are so many variables to the cost, there is no answer to your question. You and your brother should get a lawyer though. Other brother’s actions only prove he is not going to fulfill his duties to administer the will properly. Best course of action is to have him removed as a fiduciary early on, before he can really mess things up. Sorry you are going through this!

      • Anonymous

        You misread. The tirade brother is not the trustee brother. Tirade brother is the ex-trustee.

    • Anonymous

      There’s no way to estimate costs, but it will be far more than you want or expect (our family is $50k into an international estate settlement that is not acrimonious in any meaningful way except in my wanting to get it settled after 2.5 years)

    • Anon

      I’m so sorry to hear about the situation you and your brothers find yourself in. My parents in law kept a change of trustee secret from their daughter aka Old Trustee (and didn’t warn my husband aka “New Trustee” that she didn’t know). It was hard for her and my husband dealing with the revelation on top of their grief, and I frankly felt like it was a set-up. My condolences on all fronts.

    • Anon

      I don’t know how much it will cost, but you need an attorney with lots of experience litigating will/estate challenges to make decisions now that will either box your brother out of litigation or put you in a better position if there is litigation.

      I am so sorry for you that a time when fraternal/sororal solidarity would be so important is being ruined this way.

    • Anon

      The costs come out of the estate. It can range from a few thousand dollars to well into five figures.

      Usually, there is an in terrorem clause, which states that people who contest the Will shall not be a beneficiary. That helps.

      I will point out that a Trustee generally cannot just “cut someone out” for funsies. (Nor can an executor cut someone out.) The Trustee is tasked with administering the Trust by its terms, and the Trust becomes irrevocable upon the death of the grantor (person who set up the Trust). Once the grantor dies, the beneficiaries are set.

      My advice? Nip this in the bud. “Ralph and Edna, the Will and Trust will be handled in accordance with the law. I suggest you learn a lot more about probate; what you’re claiming as a fact isn’t even possible. We are all grieving and your made-up version of estate administration is causing additional pain. Knock it off NOW.”

    • Annie Nominous

      We just hired a lawyer to handle a basic will (filing, getting us assigned as personal representatives). It’s a minimum of $1,500, but I don’t think we’ll need much more help. Beneficiaries were assigned for most things. We don’t have anyone contesting the will and there is no debt. I’m so sorry about your situation. The behavior is just so awful and adds misery to tragedy.

  11. HELPPPP!

    So I know folks laughed at the Kibbe body types but I finally realized why I never feel I achieve that “sharp” enough look I work so hard towards. I am 5 feet 1 (short), busty and clearly a “romantic” ie all curves and very little straight lines. However I just got promoted to a C suite role and while I am VERY confident about my work, in most rooms I feel out of place for my looks. Most other women my level are tall, more “androgynous” “yang” than “ying” or whatever, and I have historically tried to dress myself in sharp straight cut dresses, angular jewelry and straight hair which is what looks so sharp on everyone else!! All of my kibbe advice is curves/ ruffles/ ornate etc…. Does anyone have a guide or link or other tips to how to look SUPER professional (kinda badass/ninja types) with such a body type? Every place I checked is kinda going for a marlyn monroe vibe, not what I am after!

      • Anon

        I’m not sure. I think there is a grown up version of the phenomenon where curvier girls get hassled for the same school uniform looking less “school appropriate” on them.

        Maybe it’s more that not every body type is as easy to dress in a way that reads as professional?

      • Anon

        You might not want there to be but that is like saying you don’t see color. The fact is, humans make judgments on what we see whether that be based on race, hairstyle, body type or grooming. The best way to counteract racism is through affirmative action and diversity programs because people from different cultures and ethnic backgrounds get to know each other. But, yes, we are judged on our body types, even if that is wrong. Welcome to earth.

      • Anon

        God for bid someone wants to know how to dress for executive presence in this place is dedicated to exactly that.

      • Anonymous

        Omg +1,000,000 why are women so gullible. Do you think men waste time thinking of the body type.

        • Anon

          I’m very aware that men think all the time about their height and fitness. Perhaps less often about their clothes (unfortunately since well tailored clothes would probably alleviate other insecurities!).

        • Anonymous

          There are some that do.
          Men have a few general advantages, though, that mean they can think about it less. Their clothes tend to be more standardized sizing wise in that more of their sizing is measurment based instead of numbered. As well, their styles tend to change less often than women’s and they have higher quality options at lower price points so they aren’t replacing things as often. Men tend to view tailoring as the atandard thing as well, whereas for women it’s not.

      • Anonymous

        Curious if you also believe the conventonally attractive do not have an advantage…

      • Anonymous

        There is no one professional body type, but different clothes look professional on different people depending on body type. OP may find that a short collarless jacket looks sharper on her than a jacket with a big collar, for example.

    • anonshmanon

      Someone that comes to mind is Mrs Bartlett from the West Wing. Relatively short and curvy, but always projected strength and power.
      Another way to go would be the bland uniform popularized by Nicola Sturgeon and Angela Merkel. Not a fashion statement by any means but I feel like at this point they have made it such a part of their brand that the style itself is associated with ‘Woman in charge’.

      • Anonymous

        Janet Yellen is only 5’3″! Are you having your clothes tailored? As a fellow curvy woman I find fit makes a HUGE difference

      • bird in flight

        Another reference point – Dr Bailey in Greys Anatomy when she is chief wears a lot of great professional outfits that fit her force of nature.

    • Anon

      I agree with the poster who says there is not a professional body type. However as a short round person I truly get where you’re coming from. I’ve found that a round neck, no lapel suit jacket seems to suit my body type better than a traditional blazer. Think of a Chanel jacket form without all the extras. I like it with trousers or a matching sheath dress.

    • Anon

      I would also love to know how to look “sharper” and more professional at work. I’m short, cusp sized, very busty. I feel round and frumpy no matter what I wear. I can wear the same outfit as a taller, thinner colleague and she’ll look polished and professional and I’ll just look like a teapot (short and stout). It’s a big hit to my confidence.

      • OP

        Thanks for the solidarity. As the OP, I appreciate knowing it is not just me being “unhinged”. Of course I am not saying my body type is not professional. However, of the many battles I fight everyday as a BIPOC woman with other things I don’t want to get into here in a male dominated world, I’d love for this to be easier and not feel “out of place”. Believe me I am 40 and have been okay being frumpy but kicking ass in my career in my 20s and 30s, but it just hits differently now.

        Thanks also Anon at 4:11 thats so true!

    • Anonymous

      Isn’t the ceo of pepsico kind of short and soft? Not sure how vertical she is or whatever. Indra nooyi I think?

    • anon

      Ugh. Reposting but removing a phrase that apparently triggered the mods.

      Girl, there is nothing wrong with your body! I think you have a lot of options. Most of the women in my office are built exactly like you. Collarless jackets, shells, and tops in nice fabric with some give, and pants or skirts that fit well are your friends. Think modest v- and scoop necks versus crewnecks. You don’t need ruffles, and you don’t need sharp edges, either.

    • Anonymous

      Fellow busty lady, and I know just what you mean. If you are enjoying Kibbe as inspiration, look at the Theatrical Romantic office wear, not the true Romantic.

      You actually probably look great in classic items like peplum jackets? Pencil skirts? Pussy bow blouses? Those are softer, but really great on a very curvy body. Unless it’s very integral to a jacket, don’t wear them closed, that doesn’t work with a big bust, it better to have a jacket that drapes and separates. Oversized blazers can still work, but get a petite size, and roll or tailor sleeves and waist.

      You can have sharp suits and dresses, but maybe a silk blouse rather than a cotton shirt, to get that little bit of softness. And stay away from cleavage as much as possible, as that’s what will take an outfit from boss to “sexy secretary” for those of us who are very hourglassy. I really like a boat neck under blazers. You can have dramatic jewelry and hair even if the shapes are not angular.

    • Anonymous

      I’m 5’0” and while I’m not overly busty I have an hourglass figure and feel your pain. I’m also in a role where I need to project confidence. What has worked for me is bold colors that flatter me and collarless jackets/blazers.

      • Anon

        Same. It took me a long time to understand why Claire Underwood’s sleek outfits don’t make me look polished. I’m better off wearing fashion-y feminine clothing with interesting details. I don’t look like a stereotypical Powerful Business Woman but my outfits project a different type of confidence.

    • Anonymous

      It would be helpful to know what kinds of professional clothing you already gravitate toward, but off the top of my head here are some ideas:

      Structure in a handbag.

      Monochrome outfits in shades that flatter you. jewel tone, icey pastels and rich neutrals all look amazing in monotone.

      Graphic or abstract patterns.

      Or, girly details in micro doses. A floral print on a pump or on a scarf. A ruffle trim on a cuff or lapel. I will forever love a tie neck silk blouse.

      Bold, if not angular, Jewelry.

      A signature color, even in a lipstick.

      Fabric with weight to it: it makes an a line dress appear crisp in my opinion.

      Conversely, drapey fabric that looks luxe. A pashmina in poly just doesn’t look as boss as one in luxe wool or cashmere. Same with silk vs poly on a blouse.

      Gorgeous shoes. (both bowed ferragamos and those anglea Scott oxfords make me drool.)

      A signature “up” hairstyle. I love what Blair eadie has been doing but I also loved when a former colleague piled her natural hair in a high ponytail that she deemed a “poof,” it looked amazing.

      Tailoring. Even if your clothes aren’t “tailored” in style the perfect length drapey pant or the perfect bracelet sleeve will add polish.

    • Anonymous

      i saw an interesting youtube where someone recommended that softer, bustier types needed shoulder pads to even them out on top, and even recommended buying spares to put in all your shirts. i think i’m a soft romantic and it was an interesting idea to me.

    • Anonymous

      Mindy Kaling’s red suit from Michael Kors’ is a great look – maybe not red for the office, but a dark neutral or jewel tone. She has some good looks with more structured clothes and fab coats.

    • Anon

      My kibbe type based on the other day’s quiz was Romantic across the board! I think only my nose scored a dramatic.

      I remember Olivia Williams’ wardrobe in Dollhouse looking like a Hollywood (i.e. much too tight) version of the clothes that look best on me, and realizing that she’s essentially a madame. Well at least she’s a business woman.

      When I was in school I always imagined that one day I’d be taller than 5’3″, as slim as the Kate Moss generation idolized, and pulling off a sleek, sharp androgenous wardrobe, but none of those things panned out.

    • Anon

      Fellow curvy woman here, and I’m really sorry that you had to deal with the “unhinged” comment. Fwiw, I think Nancy Pelosi looks sharp and professional and has a relatively curvy frame.

    • Anon

      Silk blouses
      Tailored pants
      A couple pairs of GOOD shoes eg ferragamo Vara or Varina
      faux wrap style dresses BUT in wovens, not knits
      Check out Hugo Boss sheath dresses. They’re sharp but cut for curves.

      I have a 9-10” difference between waist and hips and the above work for me.

      • Anon

        Thank you!! Upgrading from knit to woven faux wrap dresses does sound like a good move, so it’s encouraging you were able to find some that fit w/that waist/hip ratio. And Hugo Boss does look like an upgrade from all my Maggy London Suzi Chin, so it helps to know the cuts work.

        • Anonymous

          The woven faux wrap dress is a great idea! They have enough structure to create the executive presence that a soft knit wrap dress often lacks. Also take everything to a good tailor, who will be honest about what needs alterations and what doesn’t. You would be surprised at how a small change, like slightly tapering a straight skirt or shortening a sleeve from full-length to bracelet-length, can take an item from boring and frumpy to flattering and polished.

    • Anonymous

      Maybe some of the outfits on Julia Louis Dreyfus in VEEP? Her clothes are well-tailored, colorful, thoughtfully accessorized – she’s in charge, but it’s not an HRC pants suit. The character also does “soft” blouses that come with ties/bows well.

      And as an hourglass with curly hair, it took me a while to find my professional style. I’m not one of those masculine-vibed, gray or navy suit, sleek-haired kinda women, and I felt like I wanted to be or should be to be authoritative when I was younger. As I’ve aged and gotten more comfortable in my skin, I’ve learned the best way to project confidence is to be comfortable in who you are and wear clothes that you like. For me, it means my work wardrobe is a lot like JLD’s Selena Myers character’s.

    • Anonymous

      I took this test this morning out of curiosity and it told me exactly nothing that would be helpful to me.
      I’m still not sure what the shape of my nose has to do with anything…
      If you haven’t already, read a bit on body proportions and even on the fruit-as-body-types…see if that can help narrow down your search.

      • Anonymous

        The shape of your nose is relevant because the shape of your clothes needs to complement your face, not just the shape of your body.

        • Anonymous

          Yeah…the nose is only relevant insofar as it’s part of the face, and overall face shape is relevant.
          I’m genuinely curious whether kibbe followers actually think things like “if only my nose were wider, then this jacket would be perfect”?

    • NaoNao

      “Gerri” from Succession (TV show) comes to mind–she’s not tall, narrow, and thin, but her clothes are 100% power b***.

      She does midi skirts, fit and flare, rich colors, elegant visibly expensive jewelry, luxe fabrics, 2-3″ heels, dresses more than pants, soft classic prints (like Paisley, plaids, and oversized florals). She never wears straight up basics, or ultra-sharp edgy tailoring.

      One thing that helps is to match the scale of items to the body and the…extremeness to the body/face/overall look if that makes sense. Like a shorter person looks a bit odd in a maxi skirt or 4″ heels, just like a tall person doesn’t look their best in dainty, delicate details. Same with hair (even hair color) and makeup–someone like Tilda Swinton looks amazing in a no-eye makeup strong lip, lemon-yellow faux-hawk pixie cut, floor length draperies, and so on. Reese Witherspoon, even though she’s sharp featured and slender, would look “off”–her styles are more sedate and moderate.

      This advice gets tossed around a lot but a “third piece” is very key –a gillet, vest, blazer, scarf, topper, jacket, etc makes an outfit feel much more polished and finished. I’ve noticed that entry level staff and ‘front line’ staff often wear a top and pants, and that’s it. But executive and mid-career often add a third piece–even a statement accessory could work.

  12. Anon

    How would you handle this? I posted above about my brother being verbally abusive to my brother and I after our mother died and he is no longer the trustee. He’s been yelling at us, sending long paragraphs of texts, and his wife called our sister to lie that we are cutting her out of the will to try to get her mad at us.

    But… he and his wife are staying in my mother’s house since he is the only non-local son and doesn’t want to pay for hotels. We are going to start cleaning out the house tomorrow with our kids, and I don’t know if he’ll be there. We need to start staging it to sell once it’s cleaned out, but I have no idea how long he’s planning to stay there. I don’t know if we can move out all of her bedroom since he and his wife are sleeping there, but I also can’t talk to him about it because I don’t want to invite another tirade. I feel like moving out all the beds would be viewed by him as an act of aggression, but I also think it’s entirely inappropriate to be staying there while acting like a crazy person to all of us (and preventing us from moving it out and moving on). I’m not sure how to broach it with him though without him experiencing that as starting a fight or retaliation though either. I don’t think he wants to go back to his home state, lest we ‘screw him over’ in the will. He keeps saying he has to be a part of all the decisions and meetings to not ‘sacrifice his wife and sons’ safety’ in terms of what they get in the will, which makes me feel he won’t want to leave our city, but also I know he won’t want to get a hotel.

    What would you do?

    • Anon

      He doesn’t get to change the will. It is what it is. The trustee administers what the decedent wrote out. The rest of the decions are left to the executor. It’s not a group thing, and doesn’t have to be. However, whomever the trustee/executor is should keep an accounting, which means you keep receipts for all expenditures, and document which decisions were taken, when. This will protect you from any frivolous claims of misaproprirating the estate in any way.

      The trustee is generally the executor of the estate, so whomever that is gets to make decisions about cleaning out the home. Who was the home left to? If it’s all three of you children, then you need to sit down and make a plan about timing for moving things out, etc. If it’s not an asset that he’s entitled to, I would tell him that he and his family can stay for one week, and that they need to be gone by the end of a week, and that you will be cleaning the house out in the interim. If he’s being irrational, then you and your (good) brother should come, united and start cleaning things out for Goodwill/Salvation Army/Shelters, etc.. If anything is even questionable valuable (even sentimental) set it into a pile that you guys go through together. If he’s yelling, he’s yelling, but don’t engage. You have the law on your side.

      If he’s verbally abusive, call the police and check the state wiretapping laws, but video him, if it’s a one-way consent state. You may need that as evidence later.

    • anon

      Get an attorney. Say it to yourself on repeat.

      Also, this is a marathon not a sprint. I’m guessing based on your posts that this is a fairly recent event. Breathe. Getting the house ready to sell doesn’t need to happen immediately. In fact, it CANNOT until the will is probated. The same for dealing with personal property. So, back to my initial statement … get thy self to a lawyer.

      • Anonymous

        Right like you probably can’t do this tomorrow. Sorry. That’s reality. The executor likely needs to actually do their job by the book.

      • bird in flight

        +1 to slowing down on the house front. I would not go there tomorrow with all of this nonsense going on. That is asking for a giant confrontation.

        Also, I think the brother who was named executor needs to take the lead on getting the lawyer, talking to the non-executor brother about his plans, and overall making the plan for the house.

    • anon as well

      As to the practical details of your question, this an excellent question for a lawyer experienced in these matters in your state.

      As for the significant emotional fallout for you, this is a good thing to bring up in a therapist’s office. I say this as someone who waited too long in similar circumstances to properly care for myself. Please do better for yourself than I did for me.

    • Anon

      This kind of fight will just eat up the estate. The executor should hire a lawyer to help execute your mother’s wishes and that may include getting your wayward brother out of the home. Don’t try to rush the sale of the home. It isn’t going anyway.

    • Anon

      Agree with getting a lawyer, but what’s the fight about? Why is your brother so angry? Is there something unresolved someone in the mix could resolve? Legal fights are expensive and with emotional parties, even more so. I’d strategize with your other siblings to see if you can cool things down.

      • Anon

        Cynically? The brother might be raiding the house of anything valuable (jewelry, furniture, crystal), and wants to be unimpeded as he fills his pockets.

        I would head over this weekend with the executor, unannounced, to inventory the estate.

        An attorney can advise about any issues relating to charging the live in brother rent or evicting him.

        • Anon

          My sister did this. The ironic thing was that my other sibling and I didn’t care. If she wanted that stuff she was welcome to it. But instead of being up-front about it, she just stole everything. Much of it before our remaining parent even passed away.

        • Seventh Sister

          Unfortunately, it’s pretty likely this is the case. This is also the time where people start to claim that “mom meant for me to have X valuable piece” even if that is 100% balderdash.

    • Anonymous

      I think you need to slow down. You seriously think bringing your kids to clean out the house is the right move given a situation you’ve described as abusive? Also, it wouldn’t be “viewed” as an act of aggression to remove the beds they are sleeping on with no notice or next to no notice. It would indeed be an act of aggression.

      Get the legal path in order, communicate everything as you go, and be mindful that no matter how upset you are at your mom’s death and your brother this is still her son (at the least a human being who has also lost a mom and is likely lashing out in grief). I. know, easier said than done. But the house will eventually be sold and get sorted. Losing a big piece of your family in the process or at the least creating an excessively stressful situation for your own children doesn’t have to happen. Your kids are going to remember less about the details of the house being sold than they will how you acted and how they saw their uncle act. Step back and keep the big picture in mind.

      I watched similar play out with my husband’s family. It’s disgusting that his sisters and him no longer speak and once close cousins are growing up without each other. Was one sister being completed out of line? Yes, absolutely. But it eventually all got straightened out legally. The emotional stuff never did. (A move like the bed thing is going to take you to a place you can’t step back from. And it might feel good in the moment, but it’s going to make you look like the bad guy for years to come.) His mother would have been sickened by the squabbling over what amounts to just “stuff.” Again, easier said than done. But try to keep in mind that it is just stuff and it’s stuff that can get legally sorted.

    • Anonymous

      Check into what your state’s rules are for establishing tenancy. If he stays in the house long enough it will become much harder to get him out! I know in California the time period for this is pretty short.

    • Anon

      Get an attorney. Also, don’t expect your relationship with these people to get better at any point. My own sister just sent me a snarky text today, out of the blue, about the day our mom was buried in 2017.

    • Trixie

      My brother went crazy when he learned he was no longer an executor. My only conclusion (because who really wants to be an executor?) was that he was humiliated in front of his siblings, and hurt by our mom who took him off as HE DID NOT GET ALONG WITH HIS SIBLINGS! Tell him that the will is still including him, that he does not have to do any paperwork, and that your mom loved him. Then move on, and do this by the book. It will get better.

  13. Anon

    A coworker (a man, of course) who is notorious for being unproductive during the week and spilling his routine work into weekends asked me to do a quick task on a Sunday and declined my offer to do it first thing Monday instead, despite Monday still allowing ample time before the deadline. Took so, so much pleasure in saying no. You manage your time badly and reject reasonable compromises, that is on you.

  14. Anonymous

    Had a terrible experience with a law firm interview. Several of the white male partners said and did inappropriate things that were intended to upset and humiliate me. Is there a place to report this so other women stay clear of this law firm?

    • Anonymous

      Depending on what it is, you might mention it to HR as a follow-up. “Hi Susan, I just wanted to let you know that one of the interviewers asked me about my child-bearing plans, a question you and I know is illegal. I tell you only so that you have a chance to review appropriate lines of questioning with the partners. Thanks for your time and best wishes finding a good fit for the role, Joba Plicant.” And I’m pretty sure I’d only do it if I weren’t interested in the job and didn’t care about coming across poorly.

  15. Chicago recs

    Chicago folks – what to do/see next weekend?
    I just got divorced this summer. When the divorce started, I booked a long weekend away in Chicago – and that is coming up next weekend. I have been there before but only for work so have only seen the two airports and a couple hotels. It looks like I’ll be alone, but there’s a slim chance a good friend will fly in and join me. (We’re early 40s if it matters for suggestions) I am staying at the peninsula, as a huge splurge compared to my normal Holiday Inn. Not sure what to expect but a friend’s mom recommended it. I am arriving next Friday leaving Monday AM.

    This kinda snuck up on me but I’m hoping to sleep a lot, relax, and eat good food. I live in a college town so not used to the big city. I am open to doing something touristy, food recommendations, chicago info- anything!

    • IL

      I’m sure others will chime in, but things that might not be on your radar:
      – The Art Institute: the Thorne Miniature rooms and the America windows by Marc Chagall are must-sees. To build your anticipation for the visit, watch Ferris Bueller’s Day Off before your visit, as the windows appear in the movie.
      – The Driehaus Museum. It’s similar to the Frick building in NYC
      – The Chicago Architectural boat tours are a classic for a reason. The tours run by cruisechicago.com are the official ones, I think. Wear sunscreen and sunglasses!
      – If you want shopping, the mall at 900 North Michigan is your best all-in-one destination. The Bloomingdales there is far better than the Nordstrom that is also on Michigan Avenue these days. The staff at the Space NK and SKII counters in Bloomingdales are particularly nice and will give you samples or facials without pressuring you to buy anything. There’s a bar and coffee lounge on level 6 of the mall if you want to take a book and just relax with extraordinary views of the city for a couple hours.
      – The River Walk runs on both sides of the Chicago River’s banks on the border between the River North and Loop neighborhoods. It’s well worth taking an hour or so to explore.
      – For an absolute splurge dinner, Gibsons Italia or Bavette’s Bar and Boeuf are amazing. If you can’t get a reservation, you can try just showing up to the bar before 5 to snag a seat. GT Prime, RPM Seafood or RPM Italian, and Prime & Provisions are all good options too.
      – For brunch, any of the Beatrix locations are nice. Goddess and the Baker is another good option with several locations.

      The spa at the Peninsula is supposed to be really, really nice too. Have fun!

    • Anon

      This is a beautiful time of year in Chicago. It may rain next sunday, but sat is supposed to be nice. So spend saturday outside walking, and sunday focus on going to a couple interesting museums/neighborhoods and possible to see a play, and eat very well. You could also do some shopping on Sunday if there are stores here that aren’t in your home city.

      Go to an Architectural society boat tour on Saturday. Then walk around the central part of downtown. Visit Millenium Park and walk around to look at the sculptures/instillations. Take a walk along the lake. Take quick ubers (or the “L” = elevated train) to save time if there are places you want to hit.

      Saturday night, have a drink on a rooftop bar or restaurant up high to enjoy the beautiful night lights, and eat somewhere great. Or just have a deep dish pizza at Gino’s and call it a day.

      Sunday… I would try to see a play at Steppenwolf or Goodman or 2nd City…. get a last minute ticket which will be very cheap (check their websites for last minute tix and check. I might actually try to go to a neighborhood like go to Pilsen and walk through the tiny lovely Museum of Mexican Art, then walk across the street and have a beautiful lunch at 5 Rabinatos. Then go to the play or show in the afternoon. And try to squeeze in a few hours at the Art Institute of Chicago – either Sat when you are walking around Millenium Park or Sunday.

      Chicago is really a great city.

    • Anon

      Do one of the architecture boat tours for sure. Get a drink on the River Walk. The Chicago Art Institute is quite good.

      For something off the beaten trail, I’d go up to Andersonville for brunch/coffee and wander the vintage stores/bookstores.

    • Anon

      The Peninsula is fabulous. +1 to the recommendations for the Art Institute, architectural boat tour and some kind of theater or Second City show. It’s out in the suburbs, but I really love the Chicago Botanical Garden.
      There’s tons of good food in the city. If you’re looking for a specific type of cuisine or a restaurant in a certain location, Yelp is normally the best place to start your search. Deep dish pizza is a must even though locals don’t really eat it that much. The original Pizzeria Uno (much better than the chain restaurants) and the local chain Lou Malnati’s are my favorite. I love Lula Cafe in Logan Square for brunch. Stan’s Donuts are a must.
      I really just love walking around Chicago, especially at this time of year. I think it’s one of the best cities in the US to just wander around on foot.

  17. Anonymous

    Have any of you had a b00b lift? I do NOT want to make them bigger, I just want them to be in line with my pecs. As of now, they’re hanging well below, not quite to my belly button but almost. I’m 38, done having kids. Am I overthinking this? Do I just need a bra at all times now? I know my correct bra size thanks to Reddit\ABTF. They’re just kind of saggy without one. Thanks for any feedback.

    • Anonymous

      Sagging is normal as we age…I wear a bra unless I’m sleeping or not planning to leave the house.

    • Anonymous

      Do you do strength training? My mom’s (67) boobs have improved a LOT because of bench press + push-ups.

      • Anonymous

        I was doing bench twice a week but have cut way back on frequency and weight due to an injury. I should honestly try doing push-ups for 6 weeks before I even go talk to a surgeon. Thanks!

    • Anonymous

      Yeah, if your breasts are hanging near your belly button, you need to be wearing a bra if you want to appear to have lifted breasts. I am not saying “you must wear a bra to be acceptable” bc choice, but I don’t think you are in the category of women who can get away with not wearing one and not have people think they have sagging breasts. If you want a lift, get one. I’ve considered it bc at my (fairly small) size and density, it would put me in the category of people who can really get away with not wearing a bra. I have heard recovery is harder than you’d expect, though.

    • Anon

      I wear a lounge bra around the house & a real bra out and about. I’m not that comfortable not wearing one except to sleep. And yeah, I also wear my correct size from abrathatfits and that has made allll the difference.

      My lounge bras are either the cosabella curvy sweetie bralette or the leading lady Meryl front close cotton knit sleep bra (which I do not sleep in.)

      I don’t think wearing lounge bras is going to help me be more lifted without a bra on, but it’s just more comfortable for me.

    • Anon

      Are you big-breasted? I don’t think any large-chested women have naturally perky breasts after mid-life, regardless of whether or not they’ve had kids.

    • Anonymous

      Did you 3eally think your big breasts would be naturally perky forever? I am just surprised by your surprise.

  18. Anon

    Anyone know of a good way to keep work gmail and personal gmail separate on an iPhone? Like is there a way to have two versions of the app, one for work and one for personal? Right now I’m constantly switching between accounts within the same app. I don’t like apples native mail app, I had a few instances of emails not sending. Anyone who uses gmail for everything have a good system?

    • Anon

      I use the native mail app on the iPhone for my personal mail, and a separate app for my work email. I used to have the good app because my workplace required that for their bring your own device program. Now I’m self employed and use g suites to manage my business email/business domain name, so my work email is on the gmail app on my iPhone.

  19. Anon

    What do y’all think about Ashton and Mila – do you think there will be any long term effects for them? His instagram has tons of negative comments!

    • Anon

      I hope so. I’ve never liked Ashton. I grew up in the same area and am roughly the same age, so heard a lot of stories about his f-boy antics, and he comes across horribly in Demi Moore’s memoir – not just the cheating, but also gaslighting her and basically doing what I could consider mental/emotional abuse. But I liked Mila and have lost a lot of respect for her.

      • Anon

        Same – lost a lot of respect for Mila. I saw their video and she did not seem apologetic.

      • Trish

        Wait. You are mad that citizens took part in our criminal justice system by doing something that happens every day in court? Judges always read letters from family, friends, and aquaintences of convicted criminals regarding sentencing. Shame on you.

        • Anon

          As always, your comments are so kind, Trish.

          It’s not the fact that they wrote letters. It’s the *content* of the letters. Have you read them in full? Many people have, and that’s why the backlash is so bad. The letters are awful, and come across as incredibly dismissive of the victims and their trauma. It’s possible to write a letter that talks about a convicted person’s good qualities without dismissing the horrific crimes they committed (and Masterson’s crimes were indeed horrific – we’re not talking about tax evasion here). These letters didn’t even attempt to do that. Basically the only reference to the victims is when Ashton dismissively says the victims “desire” justice. That phrasing is offense – they DESERVE justice. The letters boil down to “he was super nice to us, he didn’t smoke weed and he isn’t a totally negligent father, so it would be a travesty if he had to go to jail.”
          It’s….really not a great look for the authors.

          Also as someone said above, the video made things much worse. Mila looks like someone off camera is holding a gun at her head, and the only substantive thing they say is about their work with a human trafficking organization, which isn’t relevant to what they wrote in these letters.

          • Trish

            They obviously don’t believe he is guilty. And they are allowed to think that.

          • Anon

            Yes, this. Such a thoughtful reply! You have articulated what is wrong with their letters and why the backlash is so strong.

          • Anon

            They’re “allowed” to think that, and we’re allowed to be disgusted with them. Are you one of those people who thinks free speech means “free from consequences”?

        • Anon

          The fact that this is a normal and legally permitted part of the criminal justice system is irrelevant and doesn’t absolve Ashton and Mila from criticism about their CHOICE to do this. If literally any man I know was convicted of multiple counts of rape and asked me for a character letter, it would take me a milisecond to say no. And I’m including my own husband and father in that. This isn’t a decent person who made one bad decision. His actions were pre-meditated and part of a pattern that was repeated numerous times over many years. After the facts that have come to light in the course of the trial, I really don’t think it’s a huge stretch to say that anyone who chooses to maintain a friendship with DM is a terrible person.

          Please read Chanel Miller’s memoir. She’s way more eloquent on this subject than me.

        • Anon

          I’m honestly mad at a lot of those family, friends, and acquaintances too? It hasn’t been good for communities I’ve been a part of when people have rallied to support an abuser, and it happens so often, while the victim is given the cold shoulder, even when no one disputes the facts.

  20. Anonymous

    Is it possible to travel without catching COVID? Everyone I know who has traveled recently has caught it, and everyone I know who has caught it recently has caught it traveling. One couple even admitted that they had it on a cruise but didn’t seek medical attention because they didn’t want to be restricted to their cabin, so they just kept eating in the dining room and going on excursions. Is everyone a sociopath these days?

    • Anon

      Right now in the USA the estimate is that about 1 out of 50 people are currently infected. So those are the odds that people are working with in general.

      I wonder if traveling ever exposes people to different variants than the ones circulating locally, or if people just eat indoors more on vacation, or breathe more contaminated air in poorly ventilated spaces, or if it’s just easier to catch things while traveling because the disruptions of routines and sleep are hard on people?

      Many, many people think that it’s somehow “just a cold” now, so they’re not really being sociopaths. They just aren’t really aware of the risks to themselves or to others.

      • Anon

        1 in 50 is an interesting estimate that I had not heard. Where did you see/hear that (because I’d like to start following that source)? Thanks.

        • Anon

          I saw that number repeated by Eric Topol, but since then it’s the estimate I’ve seen a number of different people give based on current Biobot data.

    • Anon

      Yes, definitely possible to travel without getting it. My husband and I have taken 20+ plane trips since getting vaccinated. We’ve both had Covid once, him in August 2022 and me in July 2023. We did both get it while traveling, but it took many trips (and in my case, indoor dining) to get it. We think my husband got it on the plane, although he did take his mask off briefly to eat. My takeaway from our experience the last three years is that masks and air circulation work – neither of us seems to have gotten it from outdoor contact or while wearing a mask.

      If you want to minimize your risk, travel to a warm destination and plan to eat outdoors and wear a mask indoors and on the plane. Cruises are very high risk, because you have to eat indoors and it’s such a large number of people. I would not cruise right now unless I didn’t care at all about Covid, but lots of other kinds of travel are much lower risk.

    • Anon

      Yes, my parents are uber cautious about Covid but love to travel. They wear N95 masks on the plane and only eat outdoors. They’ve never had Covid.

    • Anonymous

      Best practices:
      – n95 mask for, at the very least, boarding through takeoff and for the second you land – the airplane filtration doesn’t kick in until the plane is airborne and you’re breathing a lot of exhaled air during that time period
      – dine and exercise outside where possible, for exercise mask if indoors
      – ultimately, think about airflow – high ceilings and lots of space, like museums, are generally almost as good as being outside. The smaller and more cramped the quarters, the more likely you are to be breathing people’s unfiltered air. Also if your activity involves a lot of heavy breathing (exercise), singing (singing along at concerts), or in general unmasked people exhaling (dining) the higher your chance is of catching covid.

    • Anon

      I am not traveling because I am immunocompromised, but if I had to (to help a family member who lives too far to drive, for example), here is what I would do:
      + find the N95 or KN95 or KF95 mask that fits you best and buy enough to use a fresh one several times/day
      + mask consistently and properly whenever you are within 10 feet of other people (some corollaries: in the airport/on the airplane even when the plane is on and the HEPA filters are going because the person sitting next to you might be infectious and his exhalations will hit you before they can be sucked through the HEPA filters; outside if you cannot feel a breeze on your face, so I would mask in the stands at the US Open for example; this means no eating indoors)
      + avoid being indoors
      + try to stay at a VRBO/airbnb or motel so that you can enter your room directly from the outdoors without having to be near other people (or the air they have breathed) in the lobby or elevator
      + if you can figure out a way to have a HEPA filter going in your hotel room 24/7 (maybe FedEx it ahead of your arrival?) that would be helpful. Tip: run it on high/loudest when you are out of the room and medium or low/quieter when you are in the room
      + if you can’t get the hotel or host to promise that no one (not even a custodian) will be in your room for 24 hours before you arrive, upon arrival open all doors and windows for 20-ish minutes while you run a HEPA filter on high and use bleach wipes to wipe down hi-touch points — all while masked
      + no maid service in the hotel
      + use Enovid nasal spray
      + carry alcohol wipes and use them frequently/don’t touch your face
      + bring enough tests to test every morning so that if you are positive you can start Paxlovid ASAP (for you) and isolate (for others)
      + either find a doctor who will write you an advance provision prescription for Paxlovid and fill it before you leave and carry it with you in your purse (don’t want to risk losing it with your luggage) or have a plan to get Paxlovid quickly where ever you are (corollary: know in advance whether you can take Paxlovid – people with, e.g., kidney issues cannot).
      Extra credit: a family member caught COVID from a single 5-10 minute conversation at about 2 meters distance outdoors and unmasked with someone who was pre-symptomatic and so did not realize that he was infectious while chatting with my family member. Extensive professional contact tracing established this was the only possible source of transmission. Something to keep in mind.
      Extra extra credit: I am comfortable calling anyone who at this point still “doesn’t realize” the risk they pose to others by refusing to isolate when they know they are infected a sociopath. Let the haters hate.
      Good luck and let us know what you decide to do and how it goes.

      • Anon

        Based on the reference to contact tracing, I’m assuming this family member caught it a while ago? Pre-symptomatic transmission is quite rare now. Most people aren’t infectious until they’re symptomatic. This is due to vaccines and prior infections creating an immune response (i.e., symptoms) very early in the course of the illness, before the virus has reached contagious levels. But on the other hand, people stay infectious longer than they did in early Covid. https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/study-results-show-covid-19-becomes-infectious-when-symptoms-are-present

        Not necessarily relevant for travel (there are tons of symptomatic and probably post-symptomatic but still infectious people out there) but just an FYI in general that you don’t need to panic if you’ve had close contact with a pre-symptomatic person. In the last few months, I’ve had half a dozen indoor, unmasked meetings or hangouts with people who tested positive for Covid less than 24 hours later and haven’t caught it from any of them.

    • Anon

      Not sure why my comment is in moderation. Returning to correct a typo:

      the N95 or KN95 or KF94 mask that fits you best

    • Anon88

      Anecdotal but I just traveled to Iceland, didn’t mask anywhere (and no one was masking there), ate indoors, etc. No symptoms and tested negative three days after returning home.

      • Anon

        On the other hand I avoided Covid for 3.5 years and finally got it on a recent trip to Iceland 🤣

    • Senior Attorney

      I’ve taken two big trips and a couple of smaller ones this year and haven’t caught it.

  21. LadyoftheHounds

    Hey ladies,
    Tomorrow I have my first meeting of an important internal council I am the new leader of. I am trying to keep it vague, but in my career this is a very visible position that reports at a much higher level than I have been before.
    My direct boss in this new role won’t be present, but said that when I introduce myself to the council as the new leader, I should describe my background and qualifications that led to my appointment to this position.
    I am having trouble figuring out how to do that in a way that sounds humble and genuine and doesn’t read as arrogant/self-focused/whatever other bad things are assumed of woman who talk about their own skills.
    For what it is worth, I am a woman in a relatively high leadership position for my age, but read younger than I am, so I think she may be trying to get me to reinforce to the group that I deserve this position based on my background and skills.
    Any tips on phrasing??

    • Anon

      I am on several internal leadership councils and have not yet heard anyone introduce themselves this way. Other people will give an introduction that covers a person’s background, but it seems weird for you to have to do it for yourself. Is the prior or interim leader not there to do it as a turning over the leadership role type of thing?

      If it were me, I would not do this. I don’t need to prove to anyone why I am in my role(s). I am here for a reason and if someone doubts that, well that’s on them. I earn their trust, etc., by stepping into my role and being a good and decisive leader. It’s not like people can’t look me up on LinkedIn you know?

      • LadyoftheHounds

        Thank you, that’s helpful. I agree I feel a bit weird to do myself. The prior Chair won’t be present so there is no sort of turning over the role- there was a gap when the prior person left before they placed me. I appreciate your insight and that my gut feeling was right on this.

    • Anecdata

      this is tricky but I’ve also been trying to practice introducing myself “more”, and for me I feel like it comes across ok if I just state facts – like “here is my background” not “here are my skills” and aim for it sounding like a biographical+career sketch, not justification for your role. But I’m judicious about what I put in that sketch so that it ends up justifying the role, if that makes sense? So for me, I’m no longer in a technical role but my technical background is a big strength, so I usually include a “I’m an X engineer at heart, I majored in X at X, and now I [explain current role]. I’ve been working on (name some current company prestigious projects that are relevant to the new team) and I’m excited about (new project)” blah blah blah. Like an internal version of “tell me about yourself” at an interview :)

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