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Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
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Anon
I’m withdrawing from the interview process for a job. The recruiter would like to know why even though I already provided a vague “not the right fit” explanation.
TBH, the interviews left me with the impression that the department is overworked and understaffed. The culture is also significantly more meeting-heavy than what I would prefer. Given these factors, it makes sense for me to stay at my current job.
I don’t think it’s appropriate to share my actual reasons with the recruiter, but what do I say instead? Just a reworded version of the vague “not the right fit”? My field is relatively small and I don’t want to burn any bridges. It’s likely I’ll run into some of the people I interviewed with at conferences, networking events, etc.
Anon
Just say that the work/life balance at your current company is better.
Anonymous
You don’t owe them any more than you are willing to share. It doesn’t matter if they asked nicely – you can politely decline to elaborate anytime. “It wasn’t the right fit” is more than enough.
Anon
This. I wouldn’t say anything about work life balance.
Walnut
The company wouldn’t provide you any feedback if they decided not to offer you the job. You don’t owe them anything.
Anon
In a similar situation, I’ve said that “while I enjoyed interacting with people at X company, I have decided that now’s not the right time for me to make a career move.” No further explanation.
My husband is in IT and gets recruited a lot, and has used the above, and also “I don’t think that what the employer is looking for and what I can offer are a good match.”
You don’t owe them a lengthy or complex justification. Just come up with something simple, and leave it at that.
Loaf
Are black leather loafers appropriate for business casual? I spent the last decade in jeans and sneakers in a very casual office, and now that I’m in a business casual workplace I’m having trouble calibrating. I tend to dress in a classic but boring style, think ankle pants and thin merino sweaters in solid colors. I’m tired of wearing flats all the time and thought loafers would be nice, but DH said the loafers I got looked trendy not professional. The loafers in question are an updated take on a penny loafer but have no embellishments or lug sole or anything I would consider ”in” right now. They are the Stuart Weitzman Palmer if anyone is curious.
anon
Yes, they’re perfectly appropriate. Loafers are having a moment, but they’re a classic style overall!
buffybot
When you said “trendy” I really thought they would look like the chunky loafers I loved in the late 90s/early 2000s. That’s not at all what yours look like! Those seem very sleek and classic to me. Fine for an office.
(And honestly, I wear lug-sole stuff to the office now too but that’s because I don’t give a you know what)
pugsnbourbon
Those are great loafers for business casual. Shoot, you could wear them with a suit and they’d be business formal.
Anon
Yeah I would wear these with a suit to a jury trial (in my jurisdiction – can’t speak for federal court!)
Anon
I’m just wondering, what do men wear on their feet for jury trials? I’ve been taught that loafers are casual (for men) and a cap-toe shoe is the most formal (vs wingtips, which teen me thought were very serious foot attire). They at least don’t have the trauma of heels, so I’m a vote for loafers-for-women in court (not that I go to court, but I have Serious Meetings that I often have to walk to (NYC)).
Anon
I was taught the same rule but I think loafers are now regarded as more formal. I still think they look wrong with a suit on a man, and more appropriate for a sport coat look, but I’m an Old.
No Face
I agree. I wear loafers to court with suits and with a whole range of clothing at the office. They are very versatile shoes.
Anon
Here’s my ask: what is the most formal loafer for women that has a rubber sole (need not be a lug sole)? I have problem feet and this may be what I need for a big meeting coming up.
No Face
For women, I don’t think the rules are very strict for how formal the loafer needs to be, especially for a meeting.
I wear Naturalizer loafers and the only comments I get are glowing. I’ve worn them to court dozens of times. They are very comfortable and go with everything.
Senior Attorney
Completely agree. Your husband would probably drop dead if he saw some of the footwear I wear to the office!
Anon
Agree they’re fine and adding there’s nothing wrong with the trendy version either. Business casual doesn’t mean you’re not allowed to be on trend, and veering away from all trends can make you look dated and out of touch. I’m not saying run and buy lug soles or whatever the latest thing is, just don’t eliminate it as an option.
Anon
I feel like loafers in many cases have replaced ballet flats.
OP
Thank you all. DH usually gets it right on the style advice, but I think he struggles with the more unisex items like this. I appreciate the feedback as it is what I was hoping to hear! If they’re good enough for federal court they are definitely sufficient for my purposes.
Trixie
Husbands are not usually good sources for fashion and style advice!
Nope
I know you put “usually” in there but I have to say among my husband’s many awesome talents and skills, he has excellent fashion sense and is often the only thing standing between me and frumpy. (He’s also better at laundry, loading the dishwasher, and does all of the list-making and grocery shopping.) Noting only to balance some of the man-child posts from f late.
Anon
Yeah, my husband is a rugged, masculine, car and house repairs guy, and he’s also the best at doing laundry and telling me if my outfit looks good. Let’s not reinforce dated gender stereotypes.
anon
These are about as classic as they come! Your husband may be horrified by the hot pink suede loafers I wore to my finance job last week, though.
Sloan Sabbith
Link please?!
Anonymous
I wish I could wear loafers but I’ve never found any that will accommodate my bunions.
Anonymous
I recommended these and love them! They have machine washed well.
Kate
I started dating a divorced dad last year. (Yes, I verified his divorce online – no, I’m not the poster wondering whether to leave the married guy!) A couple months after we met, he told me his 4-yr marriage ended because they both made mistakes. He’s had three years of therapy and is no longer drinking or using drugs (cocaine). He treats me well, tries to be a good dad and co-parent, and I’m overall happy with how things are going. Last week, his ex texted him while we were in the car. He handed me his phone to read it/ text his reply. She was upset because kid (age 6) didn’t bring the right bag to school. She said she still can’t trust him, years after all “the drugs and booze and cheating.” He sighed and asked me to respond with a simple “sorry about the bag, I will drop it off tonight.” Then he went back to our conversation.
The cheating allegation is totally news to me. I honestly don’t think he was fazed at all or thought to talk about it with me, but now I’m feeling… insecure, I guess. I don’t know if it happened, if there’s a why- the recent discussions on this board made me wonder whether to ask him. I sort of feel weird asking him, I don’t want t to be accusation – but it’s bugging me. What would you do?
Anon
Just me personally, I would look into it more. I’ve been cheated on in the past, and am unwilling to date someone who has a history of it.
Anonymous
I would say “hey so after your ex’s text about you cheating I figured you’d bring that up with me, but you haven’t. What’s the deal?”
Anonymous
When someone says they “made mistakes” in a marriage, that’s often code for ”I cheated.” He might think he already told OP. The fact that he handed her the phone kind of confirms that he didn’t think this would be news. It’s totally fair for her to bring it up, but in a less confrontational way – like hey I was surprised by that text can we talk about what she said?
Anon
I would talk to him about it. It’s a red flag and I would definitely want to know more.
Anon
YMMV but I would never be comfortable dating a cheater or addict.
Anon
The latter would be actually much bigger dealbreaker for me than the former. I know that some people find that offensive but the risk of a relapse that could destroy our lives together is just too high.
anon
Having seen what’s happened to the marriages of family members who have past substance abuse issues, I tend to agree. It’s not pretty.
Anon
It kind of sounds like it may have all gone together during a phase of fast living.
Anon
As the sister of an addict, who has thankfully been in recovery for over a decade now, I have to co-sign this. My brother has maintained his sobriety but it is work, every single day, for that to happen, and there are some things he and his girlfriend don’t/can’t do as a result of it being triggering for him to want to use again. The fact that the OP’s boyfriend may have cheated while he was using drugs/drinking to excess is not a surprise to me and for me, not nearly as much of an issue. I would be way more concerned about the boyfriend falling back into even casual cocaine abuse as I have seen what that looks like in IRL – when someone thinks their “casual” coke habit is way more casual than it actually is – and it’s destructive.
Anon
Yep a history of addiction is much more of a problem for me than a history of cheating. For those of you who say IT’S A DISEASE, I agree with you, and would also be reluctant to get into a relationship with someone suffering from cancer, dementia, etc. These things may happen in an existing relationship and you love for better or worse. But I wouldn’t select this person for a new relationship. That’s just reality.
Anonymous
+1 please please do no pursue this relationship. Enough red flags. A friend was in a very similar circumstance, and the horrors kept unfolding.
Pep
IDK, I wonder about an ex who would throw “trust issues” and dredge up allegation of “drugs, booze, and cheating” into a text about a school bag mix-up.
Cb
Right? That seems weird.
Cat
Same.
Anon
The ex can be irrational and overly dramatic and he can have a history of cheating. One doesn’t negate the other.
Anon
I mean, for all OP knows this could be the latest incident in a long line of incidents where the guy has fallen through on parenting.
NYCer
I agree. Extremely weird overreaction to a forgotten school bag.
Anon
It wasn’t even a forgotten school bag; it was not “the right” school bag!
Anonymous
I don’t really know what that means – I assumed he forgot the kids music stuff or sports equipment stuff or something needed for a certain activity at school vs an aesthetic preference. If you don’t send the right stuff on the right day then they miss out on whatever the music or gym activity is that day.If it isn’t the first time he has forgotten, and she has a 6 year old in tears for the third time this month or whatever, I can see why she would be annoyed.
Anon
Sounds like ex wife has been though a lot. I say we cut her a break and I suggest OP put herself in ex wife’s shoes and ask whether she herself wants to be there in 5-10 years.
Anon
This, so much this.
Anon
It’s bothering you, so ask him! For what it’s worth though it sounds within the realm of possibility. People do not great things when they’re addicts. For what it’s worth I can kind of understand her annoyance – if someone did that to me and was absent while I was pregnant or had a baby/toddler I probably wouldn’t just get over it.
Anonymous
I’d 100% be snappy if someone was messing up and impacting my child.
Anonymous
Sounds like you need more insight. People use substances and cheating as unhealthy coping mechanisms for other problems, so you would want to see a track record of turning to healthy coping mechanisms today to handle stress. So listen to his words and actions today and decide for yourself…but that can take time.
Anon
I’m team once a cheater always a cheater in general but one exception to that is recovering addicts. He’s basically a different person now than he was before he got sober. I would assume he cheated but I also wouldn’t be too concerned about it.
Anon
I will say that sometimes people just have a LOT of problems. If he has worked on the addiction problem (IMO a huge one, often a lifetime struggle), perhaps he has worked on all of them (perhaps they come and go together?). But ask — if someone has already opened up to their addiction and recovery, then you might as well as an open person about something bothering you.
BeenThatGuy
This. My partner has been in recovery for over 5.5 years and we have been together 6. He is not the same person he was when we met. People tend to forget that the brain with substance use disorders is significantly altered. It can take years to heal, if ever, based on the addiction. It’s not so different from the brain of a developing teenager in regards to decision making skills, etc. OP, talk to him. Be open about your concerns. You’ll know what to do from there.
Anonymous
This is my take as well. I’m less inclined to trust someone who cheated stone cold sober than a recovering addict who turned their entire life around.
anon
+1 this is where I fall.
Anon
I don’t even know how to express this in writing to strangers: 90% sure she also cheated on him, and 99% sure he is a fundamentally different person. That’s your bottom line.
Why? I’m a veteran of a seriously dysfunctional family of origin, which includes every dysfunction you’re talking about and then some (alcohol addiction, drug addiction, psychiatric problems, abuse – I was the victim, divorce, adultery). The divorces were all acrimonious and years later, no one gets along. My sympathy for adulterous drug users is remarkably low and I am sympathetic to him.
The level of sniping she’s engaging in – seriously, what does forgetting to bring the “right” bag have to do with cocaine use? There’s obviously a bag that is often used that he brought, and he, being human, messed up; she used it as an opportunity to throw his past in his face; he didn’t even gripe to you about it but calmly replied to her. It sounds like she’s getting her shots in because she knows he won’t throw her own past back in her face. I can’t explain it except to say that’s exactly how the people in my family who screwed up the worst behave.
Bring it up to him, ask him about it, and seek out therapy yourself if you see this going anywhere. His child will have a lot of scars for having parents whose lives were that dysfunctional, and co-parenting is not easy under the best of circumstances. You will also need a toolkit to handle his own past in constructive ways.
Anon
+1
I think the fact that he handed the phone to you to read the text and reply (not sure from what you wrote if he knew the text was from her) does speak well of where he is now.
My ex-H is an alcoholic, and yes there’s time I’m still angry and bitter about stuff in the past, but I would never make a comment like that to him. When I feel like that at him (at least monthly), I talk about it in therapy. Snide comments are not a healthy way to co-parent. And yes sometimes one or the other of us forgets something the kid needs, that could happen to anyone, and has nothing to do with a history of addiction and cheating.
I would personally not date someone with a history of substance issues, but that’s specific to my personal trauma with that experience. I totally get how someone who has been cheated on would not want to be with someone with that history. But even addicts in recovery and former cheaters are capable of having healthy and happy relationships when they have made the necessary changes in their lives.
Anonymous
IDK – I have empathy for the ex in this situation. After seeing my BFF hold one of her three boys crying because Dad ‘forgot’ about visitation again or didn’t send something they needed for school or bedtime routine for like the millionth time and him act like it wasn’t a big deal…. What’s a big deal to a 6 year old is pretty different vs an adult. So I have empathy for the ex venting to her ex about being let down yet again. There’s only so many times you hold a crying child before you lose your temper. Like 6 is young and consistency matters a LOT at that age. A 6 year old who has not only had to deal with a pandemic but also a divorce and a dad that was on drugs and drunk prior to the divorce deserves a Dad who will lean into being there for her now every single time vs. dismissing it when he messes up.
Sounds like he is not owning the consequences of his actions (that his family can’t depend on him) and trying to drag you into his drama. I’d be out of there pretty quick.
Anon
I’m sorry that your friend’s ex sucks but you’re completely wrong. The father sent his kid with a bag that is often used for school; he didn’t “forget” visitation.
Anonymous
My standards for parenting are higher than just attending visitation. The kid needs to be able to depend on their parents to support their education.
Anonymous
Anonymous @12:26 — I am so glad there is a child in this world with a perfect parent who never even makes a mistake as small as forgetting to give her child lunch or mixing up a school bag. Your child/children (I hope you have a huge brood) is extremely #BLESSED
Anon
Adding on to my thought at 11:09 – please re-read my commentary on being the child of a seriously dysfunctional, abusive family. I had child protective services show up at my house on multiple occasions. With all due respect, you are completely out of line to lecture me on the need for childhood stability.
Anon
I saw your post after mine. I am sorry. I didn’t mean to pile on. Equating the two didn’t align wi the my experience but I wasn’t trying to negate yours – just adding other perspectives.
Anon
My husband and I are happily married and he’s super reliable. I have held my crying child because he forgot something. He’s done the same for me. No one is perfect with sending kids stuff to school and comparing that to missing visitation is not the same at all.
I am sure it’s harder when your kid is sad due to an ex, but parenting involves comforting kids a lot when people mess up (even the kid themselves!). Nothing in the post implies that this specific problem is repeat. And it seems like he was going to resolve it same day (and not like the bag was needed during the school day).
Anon
Yeah seriously has no one here really forgotten to send something their kid needed for school?? It’s impossible to be perfect at this no matter how hard you try.
Anon
I feel like if there was a poster here complaining about her irresponsible husband sending the wrong things in to school and the mom having to deal with the fallout of getting the call and interrupting her workday to fix it, this board would crucify him. It’s really hard to know from limited info if he’s horrible or great. If I were the Op though I’d tread carefully if I wanted kids some day because of his history. If she doesn’t the situation isn’t as dire.
Anon
Yep.
Anon
Agree
anon
Also this!!
anon
You sure you want to be in this situation? It sounds like a bit of a hot mess all the way around.
Anon
And yet, once you get to the point where a person could have a 6YO kid, adults all have a record of some sort: starter marriage, substance use and abuse, parental status where many peers have no interest in that . . . I’m of the age where people are all divorced and dating again and it’s wildly different than the first time around.
Anon
Substance abuse is very different than the other “baggage” you listed. Addicts have a very high rate of relapse whereas most people are able to move on from a first marriage and leave it in the past.
Anon
I honestly didn’t see any indication from what he said that addiction was a component of his substance abuse.
Anon
I think you’re splitting hairs here. His substance problems torpedoed his marriage and apparently led him to cheat. If he’d been able to quit easily I’m sure he would have, so that sounds like addiction to me. Whether or not he considers himself an addict isn’t really the point.
Anon
To me the question is whether the “very high rate of relapse” seen with actual addicts is relevant or not. I guess I’m also not necessarily taking it at face value that the substances were in control though.
anon
Yeah, I get that. I’m smack-dab in the middle of the phase of life when marriages are breaking up. I still see substance abuse and addiction as something more intense than regular relationship baggage.
Anonymous
I’d consider dealing with substance abuse history OR cheating OR kid/ex but all 3? No way.
Senior Attorney
This is my bottom line. It’s hard enough to be in a relationship with somebody with kids. Add an ex with whom they don’t get along and it gets way harder. Add a history of substance abuse and cheating, and that’s probably where I’d cut my losses and say goodbye
Anon
Literally everything about this dude is more than I would be willing to deal with. So much mess and drama. I don’t know the first thing about you, and I still think you deserve better.
Anon
How would everyone feel if it were weed and not cocaine? I feel like weed culture is really tolerated now (not the occasional “I’m in Colorado — wee!” stuff but near daily use every evening). A friend uses DoorDash all the time (which is not a good deal for restaurants) because no one is able to drive at night b/c everyone uses as soon as they get home from work. At least they’re not driving, is the good takeaway, but I was surprised.
Anon
I’m not okay with weed, nor am I okay with more than the occasional social drink. But I’m aware that I’d probably end up permanently single if I were to divorce, due to how unusual my partner requirements are, so my substance preferences are just a drop in the bucket.
Anonymous
Weed and blow are whole different worlds and it’s intellectually dishonest to suggest otherwise.
Anon
I don’t think getting stoned and needing to Doordash dinner is the same as using coke and doing whatever he did that resulted in the end of his marriage and the comparison seems pretty disingenuous.
(I don’t use any substances and would prefer a partner who doesn’t use. But I don’t think weed normally wreaks the same havoc on your life that cocaine does.)
Anonymous
Aside from the differences in the drugs themselves – cocaine introduces the ‘buying illegal drugs’ aspect and that’s a whole scenario that I’d want to have any association with.
Anon
+1 to this. And if you have kids, buying illegal drugs risks CPS involvement and potentially losing your kids.
anon
That seems like a problematic level of usage to me. I’d say the same thing about imbibing in alcohol every night to unwind, too, so this isn’t just specific to weed.
Anon
Totally agree that alcohol abuse gets slid into “having a drink” as if it is NBD when what you do is to a degree that you also have to stay in b/c you can’t drive. But you live in a 2-story house and fell down your own steps (yes, wood is slippery) and stayed there b/c you also passed out when you hit your head and you were alone with your kid when your husband was traveling. It’s not cute when it’s to that degree, but it (and problematic weed use) just get glossed over. It’s not “not a big deal” just b/c it’s not something harder.
Anon
I’ve seen people who were high on weed.
I’ve also seen people who were high on meth, or heroin, or cocaine. The first drug is not anywhere near the same as the latter three.
No offense, but I think a lot of the people on this board who express strong opinions about illegal drugs have neither used them themselves, nor have they been around people using them. I saw someone who was high on meth jump off a 4th story balcony. I saw someone who was addicted to cocaine torpedo his marriage, his career, and his professional reputation by making a series of really terrible drug-fueled decisions. I saw someone who was high on marijuana order a pizza with both pineapple AND anchovies on it. One of these things is not like the other.
Anon
“My anecdotes and personal experiences are valid data. Yours are not.”
Anon
LOL
Trixie
I love the saying that people on cocaine or alcohol get crazy, and people on weed start a band. ’nuff said.
pugsnbourbon
“When I’m drunk I want to make the worst decisions of my life. When I’m high I want to mix all the dipping sauces and be a better friend.” (not my words; weed makes me twitchy)
Anon
Come on, Anon at 11:04. Are you really claiming that weed does no more harm to society than coke and meth and heroin? That is demonstrably not true. I don’t use weed but the reason so many people are in favor of legalization is that it can generally be used casually and responsibly like alcohol and doesn’t usually cause harm to anyone unless someone drives under the influence (which is still a crime). The same cannot be said of coke and other hard drugs.
Anon
If someone used weed as an excuse to cheat on me and shirk parenting and other responsibility, we’d definitely be getting a divorce. A single, childless person doing it for fun and ordering takeout is not the same situation.
Anon
Right, this.
Anon
I ride my bike past the pickup line at the local elementary school and smell a lot more than exhaust coming out of cars. This happens daily on my ride to work, so yeah, as nasty as that is, weed seems widely accepted where I live, despite still being heavily restricted.
On a related note, attitudes like this are why I “quit drinking for health reason” if asked. OP- talk to him. It sounds like he’s done and continues to do a lot of work and y’all seem to have a good thing going.
doc
What a thought…. a bunch of stoned parents driving, picking up their children at school…. driving their kids…. nice. Really nice.
anon
That’s pretty horrifying, actually.
Anon
Every damn day. It’s the new “wine mom”, I suppose.
Anon
You should call CPS on these people. Same if there was like the smell of booze wafting from their cars.
Yikes!
Anon
On a bike? In traffic? Yeah, good luck with that. Law enforcement won’t enforce the rampant speeding, illegal passing, school pickup/dropoff cars obstructing the road and everything else. Why would they care about weed? CPS and the police can’t handle the volume of people who literally beat their kids. They sure as hell aren’t going to do anything about a bit of pot smoke. I hate it, I think it’s nasty, but I also live in the real world.
Anon
I’d just ask him about it. I’m team talk about everything. I’d also not jump to the dump, life is complicated and grey, and people can grow up and learn from their mistakes. I don’t take relationship advice from a cross-stitch pillow phrase.
anon
Certainly have a conversation giving him room to explain or tell you anything he hasn’t up to this point. Remember the news broke from an Ex who, while they’ve seen the worst of him, is throwing daggers at him in that text (possibly looking for a fight?). So I don’t know that this is worth going in hot and accusatorily. I think this is something that needs to be discussed and based on what you learn, how he handles it, you will have information you need to decide what to do next. Good luck! I hope this turns out to be a good conversation for you.
Anonymous
If the cheating is what’s bothering you, yes I’d just ask him. You’ve gotten good scripts for that already. But for my two cents: the drug use is way down the list of red flags. He has a kid (is it their kid together? Kid is 6 so 4 year marriage started after kid?), his ex sounds unhinged – I mean she probably has a right but I don’t want to deal with a crazy ex. He confessed drug use but didn’t feel the need to mention cheating? Maybe he’s a good guy (maybe) but this is a lot to overcome.
Anon
Sounds like the four year marriage ended three years so they were married when the kid was born.
Anon
*ended three years ago
Anonymous
What did you think “we both made mistakes” meant? If it wasn’t clear to you, why did you not ask more questions when he gave that explanation? We’re you avoiding the specifics?
Anonymous
I made a similar comment elsewhere but yeah I kind of agree. He probably thinks he told her, she apparently didn’t get the memo. BUT this does reveal a pretty big communication issue. They both seem conflict avoidant. He didn’t want to explicitly tell her and she didn’t want to dig to find out the truth. OP seems like she has rose colored glasses on. Idk where I heard this (here?) but the thing about rose colored glasses is – all the red flags just look like flags.
Anonymous
It’s ok to decline a romantic relationship with someone who is perfectly nice and who you get along with. It does not make you a bad person and it does not mean he is unworthy of love just because you personally do not want to invite these kinds of problems into your life. Putting aside the drugs and cheating, the contentious relationship with the ex is not something I would sign up for. Idk if she’s unhinged or deeply traumatized from the relationship or a combination of both, but whatever the reason, they can’t even be civil over everyday stuff. This kind of relationship will poison your life.
Elegant Giraffe
Goodness. Sounds like tendency of substance abuse and history of cheating that he did not share with you? Run. Not sure what other red flags you’d want.
Anonymous
But it sounds like he did share the cocaine use and, I suspect, thinks he told her about the cheating when he said “we both made mistakes” and OP didn’t ask any more questions, signalling that she understood the euphemism. That doesn’t mean OP can’t or shouldn’t ask more now, given this is apparently news to her, but I don’t think she should start from the position that he was hiding anything. She hasn’t asked.
Elegant Giraffe
Agree to disagree. Cheating is not something that can be covered by a euphemism.
For me, it’s also the combination of all of it: substance abuse + cheating + not fully disclosing cheating. One of those along might be OK for me but not all three.
Anonymous
I would just ask him, simply and honestly. Your ex said this in a text, what did she mean? You can add that you never thought about it until you read her text, which is fair enough.
As far as his past, I believe people can change and be redeemed. If there is no redemption, what hope is there for us all? You should still proceed thoughtfully, and I would definitely get couples therapy before I’d marry this guy. If his past is a deal breaker, leave now.
FWIW, I grew up with an alcoholic parent and there is a history of alcoholism on both sides of my family. My childhood was problematic, but my parent went to AA and didn’t touch alcohol for the last 25 years of his life.
Anonymous
Life is tough enough on its own without feeling like your foundation is being built on sand. I would have had a dealbreaker with the substance abuse history. People don’t have to be perfect, but I think a partner has to be reliable above all else.
Anon
Yup. Especially if you want to have kids. If you don’t care about kids I’d consider it, but keep the finances separate and recognize that the relationship may have a shelf life.
LadyB
Need professional winter coat recommendations for wearing in the midwest. The hitch- it can’t be wool or wool blend due to allergies. Budget ~$500.
Cb
Do you need a super formal coat if it’s for commuting / going to grab lunch? I’m in a milder climate but last year, I embraced the puffer and man is my life better.
Anon
Team puffer here too
LadyB
It will be for going to meetings with clients, work events, dinners, etc. Coming from a warm climate so have no real understanding of what to wear when the weather is anything below 50. Since puffer seems to be the answer- any specific puffer recommendations?
Anon
I think you’ll find all your clients and colleagues wear puffers too, particularly when it gets really cold.
Emma
Yeah I’m in Canada in biglaw and wear a reasonably sleek puffer (Kanuk Mount Royal) all year round. So does everyone else around me. I do have a wool jacket for elegant occasions (Artizia cocoon), but in the winter it’s only warm enough to hop out of the car and into the venue- I wouldn’t commute in it.
anon
what part of Canada are you in that a reasonably sleek puffer is worn all year long? Do you have summer?
Cat
that seems… unnecessarily picky and snarky…
Anon
Not in Canada but San Francisco and I wear a puffer all year long, we have about 5 days of summer here. I like Uniqlo’s lightweight puffers.
Anon
Also in California and wear a puffer all year round, one of the ubiquitous Patagonia nano puffs. They may be a cliché, but they’re popular for a reason!
Anon
Summer in SF is a lot colder than summer in most of Canada…
Anon
In SF I have a seen a guy on one corner in shorts and a guy on the opposite corner in a puffer. It is the only place I’ve seen like that, but friends there have confirmed, especially in the evening when the fog rolls in.
Anon
The guy in shorts was a tourist ;)
pugsnbourbon
Come to the Midwest, Anon at 10:19! There are dudes who will wear basketball shorts with snow on the ground.
Anon
11:06 yes, 100%
I used to say that if I didn’t make my fortune in finance I’d open a sweatshirt shop at Fisherman’s Wharf
Emma
Ha – sorry , I meant all winter. We do have summer and it can actually get really hot!
Anon
They probably don’t know that summer is early October
A
Yep, same
Work for big bank in Toronto but not client facing 95% of me and my colleagues wear a puffer
Anonymous
Also in the Midwest. I bought this last year and don’t hesitate to wear it professionally…but I also have no shame about keeping warm. I run cold and am done being cold in winter for the sake of fashion or feeling like people are judging me about wearing extra layers. That said, I have it in black and don’t think it looks out of place with professional clothing.
https://www.marmot.com/women/jackets-and-vests/insulated-and-down/womens-chelsea-coat/AFS_785562633582.html
As an FYI the woman who helped me pick out the coat said that insulated coats without seams (think typical puffers) are much warmer than coats with seams, because the seams let in wind. So you’re able to get by with something a bit less bulky. Also, some coats have a higher quality down which is less puffy. So you can research that.
anon
I tried on this coat 2 years ago and omg, I absolutely loved it. If I didn’t already own a serviceable parka, I would’ve purchased it so fast. It was so flattering. I wouldn’t hesitate to wear it to work.
I’m also in the Midwest and have given up on wool coats. They’re not comfortable and they’re not warm enough. Plus they pick up lint and grossness, and I just cannot.
Cat
Just buy a nice puffer!
Anonymous
I’m in NYC, and once it gets really cold, most people just wear puffers.
Anon
Nobody cares about looking professional when they’re outside in the dead of winter. Just be warm.
Curious
*in the Midwest, no one cares. In New York it was so different I got culture shock…
Anon
If you’re worried about what people are thinking, I absolutely think it’s more responsible and adult to dress appropriately for the weather than try to be stylish.
NYCer
Check out Soia and Kyo. They have nice puffer jackets. You might be able to find one on sale that fits your budget.
Anonymous
Soia and Kyo is my go-to for more polished looking puffers.
Trixie
Buy a nice puffer in a neutral color, knee length or longer, and preferable with a two way zipper so you can zip up from the hem when sitting down. Add a pretty cashmere scarf and warm gloves/mittens and you are good to go.
Anonymous
I have an earlier version of the Katie Edition long puffer by Lole (Katie L Edition) and absolutely love it. It’s nicely fitted and doesn’t make me feel like the stay-puft marshmallow man. Full retail on the new version is $499, but you may be able to find the older version on clearance somewhere.
Anon
I have the Columbia carson pass interchange jacket in black. The inner puffer is (in my opinion) one of the nicer looking puffer coats, since it’s not very puffy and looks good with a scarf. When it gets super cold I add the outer jacket. At that point in the winter, no one cares what you’re wearing anyway.
Anon
I am a pear (size 10ish but who knows due to a year in leggings?) and have a $100ish credit at JCrew. There is a store in my town (doesn’t stock suiting though). In prior years, I recall that they had really lovely holiday party dresses (which I may not need this year) but in the meantime, I could use some pants that fit. Do they have any pants on offer that work for pears? Will go in and try on, but if the consensus is that JCrew pants never work for pears, I will wait for the party dresses (too much linen on the website now for a city heading into cold weather).
Cat
I’m a pear and basically only wear JCrew work pants. The Cameron is a good fit on me.
I would call the store and ask what pants they actually have in stock before bothering to go. If they don’t have much (likely given what’s in stock at the Philly store, i.e., like a third of what they used to have), I suggest placing a large order with multiple sizes and have it shipped to the store. Then go, try on, and immediately return the rejects in person.
Anon
I love JCrew but hate their pants. I’d look at their sweaters, their cashmere crew necks are around $100. Their blouses and tops are cute too.
Katie
Second that it’s worth calling first. I stopped by the local mall last night in search for something that, in normal times, would have been easy to find, and was really surprised at the lack of stock in all the stores I stopped into.
Panda Bear
Also a 10-ish pear, and I do have good luck with some of their pants! I find higher waisted styles work best. I don’t think they are still available, but I have been living in a pair of wide-legged linen trousers I bought back in the early summer. I often have to wear jcrew pants with a belt, though, or get some darts tailored into the back of the waist band, since a size 10 will fit great on my hips, but too big on my waist.
Tree dispute
I have an ongoing tree-related conversation with a neighbor that I’m unsure how to resolve. Maybe there are magic words/ phrasing here I’m missing, or a perspective I’m not considering, but they just seem unreasonable to me.
Neighbor told me they want me to cut down a tall tree that is on my property, about 30 feet from their house, because they’re worried it will fall in their house. I looked at the tree, and it looks perfectly healthy.
I asked a general contractor I’m working with to look at it, he says it looks healthy and doesn’t see a reason to remove it.
I convey this to the neighbor, they repeat they are concerned it will fall on their house.
I called in an arborist to look at the tree, the arborist is confused and says the tree is perfectly healthy and has many decades left.
I am certain that when I tell the neighbor this, they will continue to insist on the tree’s removal.
Is there something I’m missing here about how this usually goes? I’m a new owner of this property and have never had trees that were near a neighbor before, so unsure if this is a common request.
Anon
Here, I only care what the arborist says. Neighbor can trim the tree bits that overgrow on neighbor’s side of the lot line. You decide the rest. If they offered to pay to take down the tree and do the stump grinding so that I could replant, I might be open to that. Taking down a tree is $$$.
I had to do some work that would damage a tree that straddled my lot line and told the neighbor that my work would likely kill the tree sooner if not later and that I was taking it down and grinding the stump and would pay 100% and put the fence back (tree had grown into the old fence). She was totally OK with that. If you make it easy to say yes, people often will. Sound like your neighbor is just making demands on you.
Anon
+1 to what the arborist says is the final word. If the educated expert says there’s no reason to take the tree out, don’t take the tree out. I would anticipate that the neighbor may continue to press the issue, but there’s no need to continue to engage. I like the suggestion of “if you want to pay to remove the tree and the stump and buy me a new sapling I can replant further into my property line, then we might have a deal.” Otherwise the discussion is over. Obviously, save all the paperwork from your conversations with the GC and the arborist in case this escalates in some way. But OP, to answer what I think you’re asking: you’re under no obligation to make any changes to your property because of a neighbor’s preference. If the situation isn’t in violation of a code, and the situation isn’t unsafe, there’s no issue to resolve. It doesn’t sound like this tree is on their property, violating some kind of code, or unsafe. So it stays, and your neighbor can deal with it.
Anon
I wouldn’t take a sapling in replacement of a healthy adult tree that I like.
Anon
Okay? Do you, then. I think it’s a reasonable suggestion if the OP isn’t that attached to the tree and wants to try to find some kind of compromise with the neighbor (which, as I stated, she’s under no obligation to do). If she doesn’t want to do that, that’s totally cool also.
Anon
There are ways to trim tall trees to encourage them to fall in a specific direction. My dad did this at his property with white oaks. You can ask an arborist for that in the future if and when the tree needs shaping.
But you owe this guy nothing more, you’ve already gone way past what I’d be willing to do.
Cat
My guess – neighbor tried for years to get the prior owner to do something about the tree, and prior owner also ignored them. Neighbor sees opportunity with you, the new owner, and is trying again. You’ve done plenty.
anon
100% This was my thought. They probably want the tree gone not for fear of falling on their home but for better light/sight lines.
Anon
Yes, this.
Sheryl
This is my exact situation. Neighbor keeps telling us they are concerned about a tree falling. it is a 250 year old oak that is carefully monitored by an arborist who keeps saying it is really healthy and has another 250 years.
One of our neighbors who is closer to them told us he wants a better view of the sunset, and has had his own arborists come out (to past owners) to say the tree is sick (but didn’t).
Recently he had ANOTHER arborist/ cutter come out to cut some limbs (on his side), but couldn’t access them without setting up on our property. The arborist asked us, then said- “I don’t recommend cutting those limbs, and I can’t cut them without your permission”
Anon
I went through this with a neighbor and I haven’t removed the tree. Sixteen years later it’s still healthy. He can ask, you don’t have to comply.
r3ddit r/treelaw if anyone is interested
Anon
I am always surprised at how heated tree disputes get and l love that subreddit
Anon
Obviously, the prior owners ignored the request and now she’s hoping to make some headway with you. This is not a reasonable request; she keeps asking in the hopes that you’ll cave, not because she’s right.
Tell her that the specialists have examined the tree, have determined that it is healthy, and that is actually the end of the discussion. My bet is she doesn’t like that it blocks the light or is mad that there are taller trees on your property than on her property.
Anonymous
I have this issue. “I have consulted professionals and the tree is healthy. I will continue to have it maintain by an arborist but I will not be removing the tree.” Repeat ad nauseum.
My tree is over 60 years old, don’t come at me that your deck isn’t sunny enough because it shades your deck – you built the deck there. The tree was there first. I bought my house because of the great trees in the backyard.
Anon
I’d let them know that an arborist said it looks OK (the arborist might create a short report for you if you ask) and that you’re going to leave it alone, unless you wouldn’t mind it coming down. Tree removal of a large tree can easily be thousands of dollars so if someone will pay and you want it down, it’s a good opportunity to save money. Some trees are more shallowly rooted than others. We have a lot of poplars which are more likely to get blown over and have taken down a couple healthy ones.
I live in a forest and have a lot of experience with tree work. One of our neighbors took down an unhealthy tree that was on my property and I was fine with it because they paid. Another neighbor who wanted a different neighbor’s tree down took a different tactic and had an arborist write a report that said that tree was likely to fall on their power line and should be removed. I think he was trying to set up some sort of legal responsibility or put some onus on that neighbor, but I don’t actually think it works like that in our state so his efforts seemed pointless to me. The tree is still standing. In any case, usually when a tree falls it’s the responsibility of whoever’s property it falls on and the person who owns the land where the tree stood is not liable for damage. Maybe there’s a case if the tree is known to be a safety risk, but because your tree is healthy and an expert said so, you are good.
Anonymous
I’m of the view that no one should cut down trees without a good reason. Trees provide shade, they improve the air quality and heat index, and they increase neighborhood property values. If your tree is truly healthy (confirmed by an arborist), you’re good to go to ignore the neighbor.
Trixie
I totally 1000% agree with this!
Anon
You have an unreasonable neighbor. I would limit contact.
Anonymous
This. This will not be the last uncomfortable interaction. Sorry.
Anonymous
Tree law! https://www.reddit.com/r/treelaw/comments/9hs7b2/tree_law/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Anon
You’re under no obligation to remove a tree that an arborist says is healthy just to relieve the irrational tree anxiety of your neighbor. Save your documentation and unequivocally shut the conversation down. I would be polite but would not worry about being perceived as “nice”.
Anon
To be clear, your opinion and your GC’s opinion mean nothing and I wouldn’t mention them. Only the arborist.
Tree dispute
Thank you all so much for this bolstering of my backbone. I was thrown by the repeated request despite all my providing them with information that should have eased their concerns… you’re probably right that they just want to clear my tree out of their view/light. They have taken down all their trees in that area.
I’ll just keep saying no.
Anon
If they want to diminish the value of their own house by removing nice, old trees, that’s on them. Don’t wreck your own property that way.
Senior Attorney
Exactly. And give them a wide berth. They sound problematic.
Anon
When we moved into our current home, we were excited about the mature trees in our relatively deep (for an urban area) backyard. Our neighbor to the rear came over and introduced herself and then said that the prior owners had neglected the backyard and it was time to “top” the trees in our yard. We didn’t even know what that was, so we consulted an arborist who just laughed and said topping a tree that was meant to be a tall tree was a terrible idea. So we didn’t do it – he gave us an estimate we couldn’t afford anyway.
We have never topped the trees, though we have since pruned them to open up the canopy a little.
The real issue the neighbor has is that our trees shade her property (she’s to our north) and she wants more sun. Honestly she was trying to pull one over on us and I’m glad we didn’t fall for it/couldn’t afford it anyway.
OP I am 100% sure that is what is happening in your situation. Smile and say “no thanks.”
Tree dispute
Just to give the satisfaction of being correct to everyone saying these are probably going to be problem neighbors… I left this out due to irrelevance, but my first interaction with them was having to tell them to move their fence because it had been built several feet over the property line.
Anon
When I gave notice at my old job, I was completely mum about where I was going, because HR was run by a vindictive b1tch and I didn’t trust her not to sabotage my offer. I’ve been gone a month and old colleagues are still popping up, trying to pump me for info. The longer this goes on, the more I feel like I made the right decision.
Those of you who left toxic jobs, how long until you felt established and “safe” in the new position? I know I will eventually have new colleagues trying to add me on LinkedIn, so it isn’t like I can stay off the map forever.
Anon
Have you started at the new place yet?
Anon
Yes, a month in.
Anon
About a month or two – long enough to get established at the new company as a reasonable, competent person.
Abby
I worked at toxic job for 1.5 years, and it took me almost 8 months before I felt back to normal. However, I was completely remote those 8 months, and I think it would’ve been less time had I gotten in person interaction, and also my year end review is what really made me relax.
New job is two blocks from my old job and I’ve seen my old team walking around while out to lunch and internally I freeze even tho I’m doing so much better now. It gets better! Congrats on leaving (:
Anonymous
It took me a full year (my probation period at the new job) before the fear of my old job trying to ruin my life went away. Even still if I see my previous employer referenced in a report or attending a meeting I will have incredible anxiety.
Anon
I bought some moto-style leggings last year when I was WFH and this year I’m wondering: what even is this garment? Not pants enough to be pants. Not gym attire. Cute dog-walking outfit (so something not fancy is needed, but it’s not full-on exercise, so gym attire is also not truly needed)? Just trying to figure out what it is now that I’m back to the office.
Anon
It’s for your give away pile.
pugsnbourbon
I would wear moto-leggings to the following:
– to a trendy restaurant with a sweater and combat boots
– to brunch or other daytime event … with a sweater and combat boots
– to a sporting event – I really only have one look, but for me moto leggings work in a lot of scenarios where skinny jeans would also work.
Anon
Maybe I need combat boots and not loafers for this fall. Do you have any to recommend?
Ribena
I think combat boots and loafers are for two different use cases. Not least because combat boots keep your feet and legs warm and loafers don’t.
Anon
I have Abeo verity. I think they look good with leggings. But I’m not sure if I’m on trend anymore.
pugsnbourbon
I wear either loafers or combat boots all the time – both Dr. Martens.
Anon
It’s not like combat boots and loafers are interchangeable.
Cat
+1
OP, if your normal style isn’t edgy, I’d give away, but agree with the scenarios you could wear them.
Anon
+1
Wear them as pants.
Anon
I had to look these up. Ok you know what these are for? These are for when it’s chilly and you get invited to a party or an evening gathering at a bar and you don’t know what to wear. So you pull these on with a camisole and then your fluffy slightly sheer sweater with sparkly bits, you add some pretty earrings and a red lip and you’ve got a pretty fail-safe going-out outfit for the holiday season.
Now, will anyone be doing that this year? Remains to be seen. But hold onto holiday stuff because it’s so hard to find the right outfit in the moment.
Anonymous
Goodwill. Those are not office wear.
Anonymous
In your real lives, not on the Internet, do you know anyone who has ever claimed to be “unsafe“ as a result of a regular, unexceptional political view? I’m reading the Dorian Abbott article in the NYT and am shaking my head. I am a liberal who runs in liberal circles, but I don’t think I have truly encountered anyone who would cancel a scientist’s talk with a “he’s unsafe” argument. Who are these people? Is the media hyping up the extreme reactions of an extreme minority?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/20/us/dorian-abbot-mit.html
anonshmanon
Can’t access the article. Can you summarize? It’s unclear to me whether the argument is that he poses a threat or faces a threat to/from disagreeing entities.
Anonymous
You can try this link: https://web.archive.org/web/20211021154953/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/20/us/dorian-abbot-mit.html
No one seems to be arguing that he either poses a real threat (beyond a threat to “psychological safety”) or that he is likely to be a victim of a threat. He was invited to speak about a scientific subject in his field (the talk was to be about the solar system), but was disinvited because he has previously supported scrapping the current system of affirmative action preferences in college admissions, including for legacy and athletic recruit applicants, in favor of a different merit-based framework that isn’t discussed in this article. It just seems so…boring? Regular? A common viewpoint and item of debate? Who feels unsafe here?
Anonymous
He is a science professor who has spoken out against affirmative action. The contention is that his views make the classroom “unsafe” for students.
Anon
I mean, no, but I think academia is a special kind of dysfunctional liberal – it always seems like they’re the worst sort of caricature.
Anon
I can’t access the article and don’t know who this guy is, but in general there is a lot of dog whistling in academia. There are people with truly abhorrent views who have learned to fly under the radar or at least maintain plausible deniability, while finding one another on a wink, wink, nudge, nudge basis. They make sure to convey that not every student is worthy or belongs, and these messages are designed to discourage and demoralize students. And you better believe that students pick up on this and use it to antagonize each other. I know this happens (they do sometimes drop the act and just say what they really think about whoever is “those people” to them). It creates an atmosphere where people have to be careful not to send the wrong message, since people are reading between the lines a lot… and if someone is being so uncareful as to take the stage to express controversial views on a topic that mostly affects people who don’t look like them, it’s hard to believe they aren’t just okay with the message that might be sending.
Anon
Affirmative action in the sciences gets dicey. Spoken as a woman engineer: a lot of people will assume that you “only” got in because of your race/sex, and, given that engineering/hard sciences are difficult, are not up to the task. This abates when you graduate. However, the hard sciences tend to weed people out, often ruthlessly, which means that people who come in with fewer skills or less confidence may find themselves studying psychology. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that; it’s just contrary to the goal of getting more women/minorities into STEM.) Additionally, men tend to be more resilient in the face of bad grades than women do; as engineering gives out low grades, that discourages women more than men.
Paradoxically, if you want to increase the number of URM and women in the hard sciences and engineering, you do away with affirmative action. Get them in at colleges where they can succeed. The bottom of the class at Columbia (who gives up and studies anthropology) might be a solid student at Lehigh (who graduates with the engineering degree). The advice I give to prospective engineering students is to go to a school where they can succeed, not where they’re hanging on by their nails.
That’s not a dog whistle. There are real considerations of how to get traditionally underrepresented groups through a very challenging undergraduate curriculum.
PolyD
Speaking as a former STEM student, this is a very good point. To succeed in most of the hard sciences and engineering, you really don’t need to go to Harvard or MIT or Yale. Lots of state schools and smaller liberal arts schools offer excellent science programs and might be more accessible and comfortable for some students.
Anon
I agree that it’s rarely doing somebody a favor to toss them into the deep end when they aren’t truly prepared. It’s my opinion that we should invest a lot more in K12 (and I’m pretty impressed with some pre-college programs that work on this).
I think a huge problem with dog whistling is that it becomes hard to tell who is actually talking about a difficult topic, and who is hinting that e.g., women should ideally just stay out of engineering. The atmosphere of suspicion can also hurt people who didn’t grow up learning all the shibboleths of correct political opinion (so in the end, it’s often people with more privilege who end up getting an advantage when there’s a lot of scrutiny).
But in general, is there such a dearth of people from traditionally underrepresented groups available to voice these considerations that we need white guys as spokespersons?
Anon
I am queer (but “pass”) and live in a deeply conservative state where many people remain politically opposed to gay marriage. While I don’t think that I would be physically attacked by my coworkers (although this kind of violence does still happen in other settings) I don’t feel “safe” being widely out at work because of the risk that it could unfairly affect my professional advancement. By the same token, I can imagine how students of color might not feel “safe” taking a class from a professor who openly expresses that they do not necessarily deserve to be at the institution and will be grading them through that lens — and, by extension, why a prospective student of color might not feel “safe” enrolling in an institution who has selected such a professor to be the face of its recruiting efforts.
Anonymous
I can’t agree with that characterization of his views. He has never expressed (to my knowledge) that he will treat any students who are enrolled at the college differently. He has called for an overhaul of current affirmative action practices that would affect enrollment in the future. How is it different from other changes that have been made recently, like colleges and elite high schools getting rid of SATs or entrance exams or Amherst getting rid of legacy admissions? We have to be able to debate policy changes without shutting down different viewpoints that are expressed in a professional, respectful way.
Anon B
This controversy is being hyped largely because it involves prominent, fascinating, and hard-to-access institutions, coupled with a debate at the forefront of the political and social zeitgeist. I believe the people who would make the type of argument that he doesn’t deserve the lecture spot are the ones who believe that if the Institute was run to his preferences and those of the establishments he represents, then they would never be given a seat at the table and respect for their work. We can split hairs, but it’s analogous to the situation Larry Summers created when he postulated that women lagged men in STEM due to biological differences and that gender discrimination was no longer an issue. If you were a grad student with massive loans hanging over your head and your career prospects riding on the whim of professors who posed these questions, would you want to work with these people?
It’s also not unreasonable to point out that science is never really separate from politics – where do research grants come from? Who gets the support of their peers to be in a strong position to apply, publish? Etc. There is a whole established field of study straddling the Philosophy of Science, Econ, Anthropology, Sociology, etc. focused on the issues that Dorian Abbott stumbled into (and only a charitable observer might say, unwittingly).
Anon
No, the problem with Summers is that he looked at women at the highest levels of the field – who, by definition, were born in the 1930s and 1940s – and decided that since they weren’t equal to their male peers born during the Silent Generation, were biologically inept. There is so much wrong with that no one knows where to start.
Anon
I seriously do not know how Gen Z is going to survive in the real world.
Anon
+100
Anonymous
I know one of the kids who cried and demanded action when someone chalked “Trump 2016” on their campus sidewalks.
Anon
now that we can get any booster shot we want, thoughts on mixing and matching? i am VERY pro vaccine, but this sort of feels like a science experiment to me. any scientists on the board who can weigh in?
Anon
I had the J&J and I absolutely plan to get Moderna as soon as I’m allowed to do so. I went with what was first available, and I don’t regret doing so because I had an immunocompromised parent, but now that resources are less strained I’d like to hedge my bets.
AugNon
100% same. I’m so glad mix & match is likely going to be approved, as I trusted the “get the first shot you can” advice.
Anon
Other countries have been doing it for a while now, so I don’t have any safety concerns. That said I would only mix and match if I got J&J. Otherwise you’re fine with a booster from the original brand.
Anonymous
Same here. Based on the current studies it seems like a Moderna booster is the best option. I was hesitant to get a J&J booster anyway due to the higher risk for women (I got J&J before that info was available) so I’m glad to be able to get something else that’s even more effective.
Anon
I’m in Canada where many people received AZ before we had stock of Pfizer and Moderna and before use of AZ was discontinued. Those people got an MRNA vaccine as their second dose. Apparently mixing AZ with an MRNA vaccine is even better protection. Not a scientist though.
PolyD
I think there’s data out of the UK/Europe saying the same thing: DNA-based vaccine + RNA-based vaccine = very good protection.
Anon
It’s likely the increased time interval that caused the greater immune response, than the specific type of vaccine. Am a scientist.
Anon
This is why I’m getting a Pfizer booster. I want the increased time interval. I’m kind of hoping I won’t need further boosters after that (but will cross that bridge when I come to it).
Anonymous
+1 in Canada 2nd shot in June and still healthy
Anon
I’m 50 but not otherwise at a higher risk of complications. I didn’t think that I’d get a booster (I’d take one, but didn’t think it was greenlit for vanilla adults). My last shot (Moderna) was in May, so 6 months will be in early November if time from second shot is a factor.
I keep thinking that the 5-11 group got greenlit for shots, but not yet (and even once allowed, not sure how long it will take to get shots mixed up in their lower dosage (so they can’t just substitute in adult doses I think)). We keep seeing a lot of “Here is the vax plan stuff” that seems to overlook that it’s not approved and may not be for weeks still. [So: going to get my kids their flu shots while we continue to play hurry up and wait.]
Cat
Pretty much everyone I know, us included, is interested in getting the corresponding booster 6+ months after their second shot. (I don’t know anyone who did J&J). With the recommendation that people of any age in public-facing jobs get the booster, it’s pretty obvious that the booster is safe even for people without immune issues.
So, we are getting our flu shots out of the way now – might as well let the immune system build up for one thing at a time!
Anon
OK — I guess I understood it for people at risk of getting it at work (e.g., you are an EMT or work in a hospital or prison). I’m just an office worker who was last in line among adults in my state, so I was taking that as a “no reason to rush back and it’s probably not meant for your group anyway.”
OTOH, Colin Powell got COVID and died and that’s because someone had it to give it to him, so I’d rather not be the next vector of this taking down people who truly are vulnerable.
Cat
Healthy people working in higher-risk environments just have more opportunities to catch it, that’s all. Not like their immune systems are any different than the average office worker’s.
Not that you need to rush, just – if the guidance changes to “anyone who wants a booster can get one,” we will be beating a path to the drugstore.
Anon
Fwiw, I do not know anyone waiting for the guidance to change. The efficacy of Pfizer wanes, there’s so much supply, just go get it if you want it.
Anon
Israel’s boosting everyone over a certain age (40, I think?) so it’s clearly safe for people who aren’t immunocompromised.
Anon
I wasn’t thinking a booster was unsafe, just that it was not seen as necessary or terribly beneficial if you weren’t at higher risk of complications. I’d rather more shots to go kids once that gets underway and the rest of the world and not clog the pipeline. But if that is what people will doing, I will do it.
Anon
Israel data suggests it reduces your odds of infection by 10-20 times, although I guess it’s not clear how long that lasts. I guess it depends what your goal is. If you just want to stay out of the hospital, you don’t need a booster unless you’re old or have serious underlying conditions. But the stuff about mild Covid and brain damage is really really scary to me and I want to avoid infection if at all possible.
It’s not an either/or with vaccinating kids. The US has plenty to vaccinate everyone. I see your point about the rest of the world, although apparently there is now pretty much enough vaccine for the entire world. The challenge with vaccinating Africa is more about the “last mile” (i.e.., how to distribute and get shots in arms), not a vaccine shortage itself.
Anon
They’re just dumping unused supply in the US, not sending it elsewhere. Go get it.
Anon
5-11 will be approved on November 3, that’s when the CDC has scheduled a meeting to sign off on it. Pfizer has the smaller dose vials ready to ship, so I think kids will be getting vaccinated within a week of CDC approval, possibly within a couple days of that. I think they may even be able to ship after FDA approval (Oct. 26) but before CDC approval, in which case vaccinations would likely start Nov. 4.
Anonymous
https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/mixing-vaccines-the-study-weve-all
Anonymous
I posted a link to an article about this that is stuck in mod, but from what I can tell, the research on this is just becoming available. Mixing has the most benefit for J&J recipients, and much less benefit for Pfizer/Moderna recipients. All mixing appears safe. The study was done with a full dose Moderna booster though, not the half dose being offered. Look at the “Your Local Epidemiologist” website for the article.
Anon
My booster appointment is Saturday and I plan to get a Pfizer booster, after getting two Pfizer shots in the spring. I have Factor V Leiden (genetic blood-clotting disorder) and my doctor told me the J&J is not appropriate for me. I might get the Moderna if it were offered to me, but the vaccine site I’m going to is only offering Pfizer and J&J. So Pfizer it is.
Anon
I got the Pfizer booster, original series was Pfizer. I read that mix and match helps with accessibility and also the J&J, but it’s not clear there’s a great benefit to mixing, more that it won’t hurt anything. My priority was getting the booster.
Anon
Same – got two shots of Pfizer and took Pfizer as a booster. In my country (Hungary), the Health Authority recommends mix&match for everyone, so they offered Astra, Janssen or Sinopharm. I respectfully disagreed and asked for Pfizer given the UK study (confirmed recipients of Astra benefit more by getting mRNA, but recipients of mRNA have same benefits of booster of Astra or mRNA) and the fact I was assessed as higher risk of developing blood clots after major surgery earlier this year. Doctor agreed and I got Pfizer.
txblue
I got my booster this morning and my doctor gave me the same one I had previously, Pfizer.
Elegant Giraffe
Look up Your Local Epidemiologist who has great posts on this all and all other covid items.
Anon
I’m not a scientist but I am an immunocompromised person. I got the “third shot” (not called a booster for my population) in August, which was Pfizer. If I’d had an option to get Moderna I would have done so based on everything I’ve read.
anon
Any recommendations for a house cleaning service in houston- in the loop if that matters. Thanks!
Anonymous
When we lived there we used Lourdes Aranda (you can find her on Facebook). We live in the Woodlands now and use More Hands and they also do a good job.
Anonymous
How do we feel about the people being terminated from employment for refusing the Covid vaccine? A big part of me thinks it serves them right to refuse a safe, 100% effective vaccine and therefore prolong our miserable pandemic. However, it seems like many of the people affected are/were essential, in-person workers and also skew less important and less intelligent than the ladies on this board (the vast majority of whom I’m certain jumped at the chance to get a shot). Is terminating these people’s ability to earn a living the right approach? What comes next for them–government dependence or just a different (likely worse) job that doesn’t mandate vaccination? Something feels off to me, though I’m not sure I have a good answer…
Anon
I think it’s great. Essential workers are putting other people’s lives in danger by showing up to work unvaccinated. Flu shots and other vaccines have been mandated for healthcare and other professions for years. The Covid vaccine has been safely given to literal billions of people, is fully approved by the FDA and there’s no reason why it shouldn’t be required just like other vaccines. The US tried positive incentives for a long time, and they didn’t work at all (studies show the vaccine lotteries that gave away millions were essentially worthless at encouraging people to get vaccinated). Mandates actually work. It’s way past time to implement them so we can have a normal 2022 and beyond. Otherwise we’ll be in this pandemic for the rest of our lives.
Anonymous
I think that termination of employment is appropriate in high-risk settings, like hospitals or prisons, but that I’d be more in favor of a strict N95+required testing every three days (at the employee’s expense) approach for other positions. I have no sympathy for anti-vax views for 99% of those people, but there are some who are truly “vaccine-hesitant” or who have a bad history with medical coercion and I’m a little sympathetic to that.
anon
I think people should be able to make their own choices. People who were on the front lines, especially in medical professions, know what covid can do and are well-positioned to take their risks. I personally don’t care if my doctor or whoever is vaccinated, because I am. Yikes at you referring to people like nurses and respiratory therapists as less important and intelligent than us though!
anonshmanon
agree with that yikes very much.
Anonymous
If my doctor isn’t vaxxed I would be concerned they are too dumb to provide competent medical care.
And your comment about it not mattering if other people are vaxxed as long as you are does not show an understanding of the science of vaccination. As long as vaccination rates are low, it circulates and creates variants. We are never going to get back to normal if vax rates don’t come up.
Anon
+1 at this point the vaccine is an IQ test for the vast majority of people. I wouldn’t trust anyone who refused to take it with any aspect of my medical care.
Anon
If a doctor had gotten COVID while treating patients during the pandemic, why do you think that you have a better understanding of acquired versus vaccinated immunity than your physician, who reads the studies and knows that the former is more effective?
PolyD
Acquired immunity to COVID is NOT more effective. There have been plenty of articles published in real science journals about this. People who get COVID have an immune response, but it’s generally not as robust. Plus there’s no way of knowing if you are one of the people who has a strong response or a weak one.
Any MD who tried to tell me otherwise would not be my doctor any longer.
Anon
There are ZERO legitimate studies that suggest natural immunity alone is better than vaccine immunity. There are studies that suggest hybrid (both natural and vaccine) is the best. My spouse is in healthcare, we know lots of doctors who had Covid pre-vax, ever single one got the vaccine the second they were eligible and no one had any hesitation getting the second dose even though it may not be necessary for people who’ve had Covid plus one dose. The vaccine is completely safe, so why not add to your immunity even if it’s not by that much?
Go back to Newsmax or wherever you’re getting this misinfo.
LaurenB
Are you serious, Anon at 2:51 pm? Vaccinated immunity is better than acquired immunity.
Anon
And that is great for you (being vaccinated and therefore not worried) but if we have learned anything from Colin Powell’s death it is that being fully vaccinated is not protection if you are also immunocompromised – a group that coincidentally spends a lot of time around health care workers.
I absolutely think that people who work with vulnerable populations should be fired for refusing to be vaccinated because they get to make their choices but they do not get to put those people at risk. For everyone else, I tend to agree that mandatory mask wearing and testing is the way to go if (and this is a big if) we can count on employers to enforce it. My fear is that there will be a wink and a nod at enforcement (which is what is going on at my office right now).
Anon
Isn’t it termination OR get weekly testing, though?
Anon
I mean vaccination OR weekly testing, not termination :)
No Problem
Depends where you work. My company is going to a vaccine mandate, no testing alternative. It’s too cumbersome to administer.
Anon
No, definitely not at all places.
Cat
Def not everywhere.
Anon
Depends on the employer, and under Executive Order 14042, it’s vaccine-only for federal contract employees. I have no issue with termination of non-vaxed employees without an approved exmption.
Anon
That was the federal government requirement, but private companies can choose to just mandate vaccines if they don’t want to bother with the testing component.
Anon
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Get your damn shot.
Anon
This.
Senior Attorney
Yup. Also: OMG it also turned out to be a pretty great way to identify the fabled “bad apples” in law enforcement!
Anon
What about hospital workers who aren’t MDs or RNs? They are often POC. It’s fine to malign white people who may also be racists but POC are the largest block in my area with lagging vax rates and who are often in vaccine mandated public facing jobs.
Anon
And they should get the vaccine. If this is what it takes, then is a public good.
Anon
I feel like this will add to burnout and resignations and skinny levels of patient care up the food chain. I get this all as a long-term plus, but I feel that the tone here suggests that many are underestimating the fallout in the short-run (if RNs or RN-Ps or CRNAs are scrubbing bedpans, then there is some higher level of care not being done).
Anon
Tough shit. At this point, access is widespread, people have been given plenty of time and made their choice. Poor decisions come in all colors.
Nesprin
If there is ever someone who should be vaccinated both for their own health and the populations that they work with, it’s healthcare workers (who are already under flu vaccine mandates etc).
Anon
Right? What’s killed more law enforcement officials since the start of the pandemic is Covid, not violence. And yet they still won’t get their shot! Obviously some of these folks were not that committed to their law enforcement career, if they won’t get vaccinated to keep their jobs. I am thinking this was actually a pretty great way to weed out some of the cops (and nurses, doctors, etc.) holding c0ckamamie, problematic, unsupported beliefs that probably, in the vast majority of cases, extended to issues well beyond vaccines. Maybe we will have an opportunity to replace the cops who are leaving with folks who actually believe people should be treated like human beings.
Anon
They also haven’t been following mask mandates. It’s really frustrating.
Anon
100% effective? Reeeeally?
Anon
Don’t be intentionally obtuse. I think real-world effectiveness has been calculated at over 95%, no? And in our state 97-99% of hospitalized Covid patients are unvaccinated. The vaccines are highly effective. The vaccines are safe. Saying anything else is intentionally misinforming people.
Anon
Nope. It craters after five months.
Anon
So does the flu vaccine, FYI, and that’s mandated for many jobs. Covid will likely become a seasonal virus soon and we’ll all need shots in the fall to get us through “Covid season” just like with flu. What’s so bad about that?
Anon
This is not a topic That you’ll group consensus on.
Looking at it from the view of the employer- it makes complete sense that employees in healthcare or other public service jobs need to be vaccinated as they interact with the public- both healthy and medically fragile individuals.
Looking at it from the perspective of the employees who are now being fired for not complying with company policy…they aren’t complying with company policy by choice. Being fired is a potentially financially unfortunate effect of their decision not to follow their employer’s policy. They may yet land On their feet; you don’t know everyone’s circumstance or ability to adapt.
No Problem
I don’t have any sympathy for them, to be very honest. There is lots of real information out there about how safe and effective the vaccines are. If people are refusing to take the shots because all they’re listening to is propaganda and conspiracy theories telling them the shots are unsafe, then what other propaganda and conspiracy theories do they believe in? I don’t want to work with someone who trusts randos on the internet over the CDC. This isn’t about intelligence. This is about doing what is needed for public health to end a deadly and extremely disruptive pandemic.
Anon
100% agree with this.
Anon
People have been required to get a number of vaccinations to attend school, work, and travel for literally decades. Pretending like this is a brand-new concept is ignorance fueled by media outrage.
Cat
+1
Anon
As an office worker (and grocery store worker before that), IDK that I ‘ve had any shot requirements as an adult. Health care here required flu shots, but I’m not aware of others. Agree on travel to some places.
Anon
But don’t a lot of the shots required for school not require boosters? (like MMR) So no need to require them because if you’ve been to school, you’ve likely had them?
Anon
No – plenty of people went to school before the mandates were in effect.
Anon
No – plenty of people went to school before the mandates were in effect.
Anonymous
What? no tetanus or tuberculosis shots?
Anon
Thisssssss. Outrage about vaccine mandates only makes sense if 1) you’re unaware that vaccines have been mandated for work, school and travel for decades or 2) you believe the Covid vaccine is significantly less safe than all the other mandated vaccines. Giving that hospitals have had flu mandates for years, I’m guessing most nurses who are quitting rather than getting the Covid vaccine are in camp #2 and I have zero sympathy.
Anonymous
Agree 100%. I think it’s intellectually dishonest to pretend this is a new/novel issue or an unsettled area of law. The only thing new or novel is that a large swath of people idiotically got their political beliefs/identity wrapped up in anti-vaccine rhetoric. I’m a firm believer in vaccine mandates because vaccination benefits society as a whole and I feel that those benefits outweigh the risk of vaccine injury to any individual. I don’t think scared but otherwise healthy folks should be permitted free ride on the individual risks the rest of us take to keep society as a whole safer.
Anon
I totally agree. In my last job I had to get a TDAP booster to start work, and a couple of other vaccinations when I traveled abroad for work. I don’t remember anyone in my new-hire group, or in my travel group, throwing a fit over “mandated vaccines” then. Some of those folks are now posting on social media that they’re going to quit my ex-employer over the Covid vaccine mandate the company has issued and I’m like, wow, really? I didn’t notice Fox News taking an interest in my former employer mandating the TDAP under some kind of “our bodies our choice” manufactured outrage, so maybe that is the connection.
LaurenB
And outrage over “vaccine passports” is code for – I’m not sophisticated enough to be familiar with international travel, where plenty of vaccinations are needed to get to various destinations.
Anon for this
I live in WA state and one of the assistants at my son’s daycare was fired Monday for not being vaccinated. The daycare is owned by a hospital system and there are so many state and local mandates here I’m not sure which one she ran afoul of, honestly. I liked her a lot personally, and I have no idea what the reasons were for her not to be vaccinated, but…her being around my kid not only put him at risk, but also put our family at risk of having to quarantine (and lose work days etc.). So it stinks but I also am not a fan of unvaxxed teachers around my kid.
My husband is involving in processing Army exemption requests and I have waaaaaaayyyyy less sympathy for those, given all the other things these soldiers have put into their bodies that could be actually harmful (anti-malaria drugs, anthrax vaccine), not to mention all the other “regular” vaccines.
anon
I’m perfectly fine with it. Private employers are free to set conditions of employment. Public employers may be more limited, but there’s nothing wrong with requiring something that keeps the rest of the workforce safe. From a cynical perspective, healthy employees are more productive, and their health insurance costs less.
A coworker told me that she attended her nephew’s funeral over the weekend. He died of Covid. He was 37, unvaccinated, and obese (actually found out he had diabetes while hospitalized). He spent 40 days in the hospital. He left behind a fiancee and 3 daughters, including an infant who was born while he was in the hospital. I feel terrible for his fiancee and their daughters. I’m sure they’ll grow up preferring to have a parent who was unemployed for a while until economic pressure convinced him to get the vaccine.
Anonymous
It’s an interesting social experiment. How many extremists live among us? The vax mandates impact people who work for large employers or the govt. In other words, the middle class located in urban/suburban settings. These aren’t farmers in the middle of nowhere who have gun ranges in their front yard (ahem, like my family). If you’re a farmer on your own land and you don’t interact with other people indoors and you don’t want to get vaxxed, you know what, you do you boo, I’ll see you when the pandemic is over. If you’re a flight attendant then you need to be vaxxed and it’s nuts that you would push back. I don’t understand these people who want freedom as if they live on 50 acres and grow their own food but want the amenities of urban society.
Anon
In my city, vax rates are highest among white people (on average here, richer and more likely to be college grads). It is counter to the white/trump/antivaxxer narrative despite much outreach and despite working jobs most likely to contract COVID (jobs that can’t be done from home, high public contact, etc.). COVID deaths here are primarily among the unvaccinated. But if you’re in the hospital, do you want the LPN not to have had the shots? Does the surgeon? Can the hospital deal with much of some positions needing to quarantine often?
Anon
My family on my mom’s side are farmers. They don’t isolate on their land even though they live in the boondocks. They regularly drive to more populated areas to stock up on supplies, to go to auctions, to grocery shop, to go to the movies, etc. They need to be vaccinated just like everyone else.
LaurenB
I’m in a rural part of Iowa right now (where apparently there is no pandemic, eye roll). Even farmers on their own land go to the grocery store and Walmart and the library and the hardware store and indoor restaurants. If they had brains, they’d be wearing masks in these places. But nope, none of them are.
Anon
Sadly, this is also the crowd more likely to get COVID and die of complications from it. In my city, since July or so, COVID has been a plague for the unvaxxed, which is pretty demographically identifiable and often largely racially identifiable in areas that aren’t the really white outlying areas. It’s not for the crowd that makes $ and has a BA (outside of some Trumpy doctors I know who are really divorced from the real world). I feel bad when groups of police and firefighters and teachers and health care professionals are standing up against vaccine mandates b/c I feel that they are really just doing what people did with Oxy: letting people make decisions on bad information and endure the significant downside risk. They are the most likely to get it and die or get it and spread it; we let them go first last spring for a reason.
Anon
I think in an ideal world, employers would do a ton of education and connecting with people before imposing the mandate. My kid’s daycare did that, including bringing in doctors and scientists to talk to the staff and non-judgmentally answer any questions and in the end, people felt comfortable and everyone was excited and voluntarily participated. So the mandate was there but not really necessary because people were convinced. But in the end, not getting vaccinated is a major public health risk and potentially huge insurance cost for an employer so mandates make sense to me.
Anon
It’s wonderful and more employers should do it.
Aunt Jamesina
Less important and less intelligent? Yikes.
Anonymous
This comment is just pot stirring.
anon
Was I the only one that took it as sarcasm?
Anonymous
In context, I read it as baiting more than as sarcasm.
Anon
I was hearing for months from patients who receive in-home care (IV medication) that they were struggling to get their care workers to mask up, and even things that were routine before the pandemic like handwashing had become politically charged. So right now, I’m hoping that the vaccine mandates will help cull from these caretaking positions the people who wouldn’t even wear a mask.
Anon
This is where the scary calculus is for me: in a world where people are short workers, would you rather your elderly parent who lives alone and far away have no daily dare attendant or an unvaxxed one? Ditto day cares and the lowest rungs in a hospital. IDK what the answer is, but there is a cost of sacking people that we may bear that is unavoidable (and there is a cost to keeping the unvaxxed).
I’m hoping that the third way is that all of us compliant people get the vaccine and get all of our 5-11 kids shots and that really tamps things down. [OTOH, I’ve read that the 12-18 group is at best 30% fully vaxxed.] We don’t have a lot of options left to beat this.
Anon
If an elderly person has a child looking into their welfare, they aren’t going to go uncared – the child will find options. Market corrections exist, they’ll offer more pay and people will come. Also, rephrasing your statement in terms of consequences – “would I rather have difficulty finding care for my parent, such that I’d probably have to pay more or relocate them, or would I rather have someone who could kill them due to lack of basic safety protocols”.
And this is going to sound awful, but elderly patients that don’t have family looking out for them are probably going to be mistreated anyway, so I think the results will be the same – except care workers that are vaccinated are less likely to shun care protocols in the same way as unvaccinated.
Anon
Got it — just let the poor old people die and we should be fine b/c our richer relatives will survive. This has brought out the Hunger Games in everyone.
Anon
Sounds like you’d rather they die because their provider gave them COVID?
Anon
No — but the risk of an unvaccinated person having COVID is not 100%; even if they have but are masked, they’d not 100% give it to another masked person; even if they gave it to another fully-vaxxed person, it’s not 100% that that person would die. I might have to take those risks for a while trying to find substitute care or while moving a person cross country.
Based on my young kid (unvaxxed still, sigh) wearing a mask in school with teachers who may or may not be vaxxed, the #s for them don’t look bad despite getting calls many times re cases at the school.
I truly don’t know what the answer is, but I am not sure we’re getting the risk right while we struggle with worker shortages (and in health care, there is a real cost to worker shortages in quality of care and no ER capacity or nurses having too many people to care for to provide meaningful care, and all that is concerning). To be clear, people should get the shot. But people should wear seatbelts and for no reaason I can think of, many people still get ejected from cars in crashes and die.
Anon
I am Facebook friends with a few former high school classmates who are nurses. I have a theory, not sure if it is true, but just extrapolating from what I have seen, that they were showing up and on the front lines every day while white collar workers worked from home, and now feel like they did their jobs when no vaccine was available and do not want to be told what to do by corporate or whoever did not have to come and do the hard work. And also a sense that if they didn’t get it then, they won’t get it now. I think it’s more reactionary than anything.
Anon
I totally get that. And yet do they not see that the ERs are full and that they don’t control if they have a car accident on the way home (or their parent has a heart attack)? Full ERs scare the crap out of me and I am young and healthy. No one in the ER really chose to be there.
Anon
I know a cardiac nurse who showed up every day at work throughout the pandemic, got COVID while pregnant for her trouble, and now is on the line to be fired. She’s so furious that she’s ready to leave the profession entirely and live on a farm, and let every mandate-happy dirtbag fend for themselves when they need open-heart surgery.
Anonymous
Why doesn’t she want to get vaccinated? Serious question.
Anon
All of her anger makes sense to me except for the part where she doesn’t want the vaccine (especially given that she knows she can catch COVID at work!).
Anon
It’s better than her giving Covid to an open heart patient. Good riddance.
LaurenB
Good! Goodbye. She doesn’t belong in health care.
Anon
Bye, girl.
Anon
Yes, goodbye! This woman doesn’t belong in healthcare, let alone in heart surgery with extremely vulnerable people. Her stupid choice could lead directly to a vulnerable older person or newborn baby dying. How on earth is that “do no harm”?
Also in all this talk of staffing shortages, why does no one talk about the fact that 2% of our population has died from this virus in the last year and a half (plus all the normal deaths from cancer, etc)? It seems like that’s playing a role in labor shortages too.
LaurenB
Nurses (or other health care workers) who are refusing the vaccine don’t deserve to be health care workers. Fire them. No sympathy. If they believe anti-vax nonsense, they aren’t qualified to be health care providers.
Anon
Yup and same thing with police. Pretty sure the Venn diagram of police who refuse the vaccine and police would shoot an unarmed Black person is pretty close to a circle. Good riddance to them. I view this as weeding out people who shouldn’t have these jobs in the first place (at least as far as healthcare, teachers and law enforcement goes, anyway).
Anon
+100000000
Anon
LOL. Do math. The number of unarmed black men shot every year is approximately 20.
Anon
That’s 20 human lives you absolute ghoul
Anon
What relevance does that have? Murder is extremely rare in my city, definitely less than 20 per year, but I still think murderers should go to jail.
anon
I look at termination as an effort to keep the workplace and the people served in that workplace safe. It’s not about the people who decline to get vaccinated, it’s about everyone else’s need to not get exposed to Covid at work (or while seeking medical care, going to school, etc) and the workplace’s need to not have people out with Covid or because of exposure and not putting the people that workplace serves at risk. It’s bad business to infect your patients/customers.
Anon
I think we need to better weigh the pros and cons here. In a hospital setting, it seems like a no-brainer – get vaxxed, right? It’s obviously safer for the patients to terminate those employees, right? But I’ve also seen some hospitals who did just that now have dangerously low staffing levels for nurses on critical units (NICU, etc), and I question what is actually more dangerous.
Anon
This is sort of where I land. Which poison are we going to pick? People have gone to their corners and where 25% of the fire dept isn’t vaxxed, firing them causes different safety / responsiveness concerns. Maybe I will get that booster even though I’m not >65, not in a high-risk group, and not in a high-contact profession. If the key people won’t get it, maybe I do need to be more protected (like people lying to get their younger kids shots — if everyone else had gotten their shots and been safe/conservative, people wouldn’t feel the need to engage in self-help).
anon
Wow @ “less important and less intelligent.”
That being said, last year my employer had to temporarily shut down several critical facilities due to so many people out sick for COVID. We are requiring vaccines for those facilities and I’m supportive of terminating people who don’t get them. There was a serious negative impact to our customers as a result. Even if employers don’t care about public health, there is a real business impact to having a COVID outbreak in your employee base.
Anon4This
I’m all for it. Work at a safety net hospital in a major city/county and although 95% staff are vaxxed (and currently getting boosters), there are still holdouts. While I got my booster, at least 2 others in queue with me were getting dose #1. One did home health visits.
Our rule is mandatory vax or weekly testing (paid for by hospital/tax dollars). I wish it would just go to mandatory vax.
Anon
“less important and less intelligent”??? Really??? Who are you to judge someone’s importnace? That was a really offensive, small-minded thing to write.
Vaccinate our police
I think it is great, and especially so for our police. Our estimated immune-compromised population is 10M+. The idea of unvaccinated (and likely unmasked) police officers breathing into the faces of vulnerable populations who do not have the option to avoid contact with these officers is abhorrent. A traffic stop should not be life-threatening to an immune-compromised person, and we cannot ask immune-compromised people to just never go anywhere ever.
Anonymous
I think the answer is that despite what survey respondents say, virtually everyone who is the subject of a mandate will end up getting the vaccine.
Anon
I so hope you are right.
Anon
This is the correct answer. Less than 1% of people are getting terminated for vaccine refusal. Mandates work.
Anon
LOL. People aren’t getting the vaccine; their employers are backing down. See, Southwest.
Anon
My impression was that the Southwest pilots were pushing for better long term disability and using the vaccine mandate as leverage. I don’t really hold this against them. Is this not what happened (are they truly just trying to get out of being vaccinated)?
Anon
This is factually untrue. Virtually every large company with a mandate has had over 95% vaccinated by the deadline, usually 2-3% with exemptions and less than 1% fired. Southwest’s deadline has not passed yet. The pilots will get the vax, just watch and wait.
PLB
I do, too. Between the federal employee, federal subcontractor, and large employer mandates, a large swath of jobs will require vaccination. People may think they have options for a new job that won’t require vaccination but….the math ain’t mathin’. I wouldn’t take the chance of leaving a job to go to another that very likely will still require getting jabbed.
Seventh Sister
Honestly, I’m delighted. I realize this does not make me A Very Nice Person, but I’m going to save my sympathy for people who are not the direct cause of their own distress. If I’ve learned anything over the past 18 months, it’s that some people have no compunction about putting their own selfish attitudes and desires over the good of the collective.
LaurenB
Amen. Check out the Herman Cain Award on reddit.
Anon
On the contrary, I think it makes you a very nice person who doesn’t want vulnerable folks to be killed by their nurse when they need heart surgery.
Anonymous
In the USA, you can be fired for any reason as long as it’s not BECAUSE you are part of a protected class. This is not news. Get vaccinated or get fired, I don’t care just keep your respiration to yourself.
LaurenB
One doesn’t have to be all that intelligent to know that getting the vaccine is the right thing to do. No tears for anyone who loses / forfeits a job due to not getting vaccinated for Covid.
Not that Anne, the other Anne.
No Bones Day!
(If you have missed this latest wacky element of internet-based pop culture, Google Noodle the Pug)
Carla
Ugh I have a post in mod about covid booster side effects, so definitely feeling the no-bones today
Not that Anne, the other Anne.
Wear soft pants and take care of yourself!
Anon
It is a very gloomy and rainy day here, it definitely feels like a no bones day.
Anon
I just saw the forecast this morning. Soft pants and self-care it is!
Anonymous
Ugh, I have 2 posts about this stuck in mod. Look at Your Local Epidemiologist.
Anonymous
I give up. This was for the question about mixing boosters above.
Carla
I’m working from home and I started a new job a few weeks ago. I got the covid vaccine booster yesterday (my team knows) and the side effects are hitting me hard today. I was fine with the first two shots, so I was surprised when I woke up feeling bleh this morning. I have some meetings in the late afternoon, but nothing between now and then. I do need to go to those meetings. Can I take like 2 hrs of sick leave to take a nap? It is in hours here. I can muscle through it, but I’m also not at my best and that doesn’t seem right.
Anon
In my job, you wouldn’t even take sick leave. You would just tell people you’re not feeling well and will be offline until your afternoon meetings. But yes please nap and give your body the rest it’s asking for.
Curious
Do it. Everyone knows COVID vaccine reactions are rough. I had the worst time with the third shot, too.
Carla
That’s what I was thinking. People know that this is a thing that can happen.
Anon
Of course you can.
anon
Can you just block off a couple hours on your calendar and nap? No need to formally take the time, right?
Anonymous
Yeah, I guess ymmv but this would be my take. I refuse to ever work in a job (again) where I need permission to take off 2 hours.
Carla
My boss is even out today (preplanned vacation) so there isn’t even anyone to really tell. I usually block off my lunch anyways and today lunch will just be longer.
pugsnbourbon
Please take the nap and the rest of the day off (can you reschedule those meetings?). You don’t need to tough it out. I was wiped out by the flu shot this year – if I’d gotten it on weekday I would have needed a mid-day nap for sure.
Anon
Just take the day off.
Cat
I would just take a quick nap…
FWIW, when it comes time for us, we’re planning to get ours Friday evening. Learned our lesson with shot #2 that the worst side effects were 15-20 hours after the jab, so planning to have Saturday be a “couch potato recovery day.”
Anon
Dose #3 was a lot better than #2 for me and a lot of others I’ve talked to so it might not be as bad as you fear. Planning for a weekend to recover seems reasonable though.
Anon
Take the time you need. I was down for two days after my second vaccine, it was rough.
Anon
Girl I took THREE days off after my third shot. Everyone gets it. Do it.
Anon
Is there a way to choose which holidays G00gle Calendar shows, or do I have to just turn off that category and put in the ones I want manually? Searching isn’t fruitful.
Anonymous
If you are viewing a public calendar like Christian Holidays you can selectively duplicate the ones you want to your calendar and then hide the public calendar.
Minnie Beebe
Boringly On Topic, but the pants shown in the picture look like the pants my grandma used to buy out of the Sunday circular. Hard Pass!
Anon
Yes! They’re awful!!
Anon
What “readers” are “raving” about these pants? Subscribers to AARP Monthly?
AZCPA
I raved about them. I’m 40. My original post about them is that they don’t look at all like the image in real life, they are narrow and flattering on both me (short and curvy) and my friend (average height with narrow legs/thin calves). But way to be mean about something you know nothing about.
Anon
I will go to my grave boycotting pants with these piping seams down the front. They’re a fake trend designed to allow the company to use shoddy sub-par small bits of fabric to piece together a pair of pants, instead of using proper front and back panels.
Anonymous
Constructing garments with more seams is more labor intensive and therefore expensive, so I don’t think that is the issue here, especially when you are dealing with a cheap, man-made fabric. It would make sense if these were leather or fur or something.
Anonymous
How rude. The reader who recommended them posted above. We are not all 25.