Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Amesbury Top

381 Comments

1. Looking for the hives help. I have a milestone birthday approaching and will host a small but fancy dinner in Scotland or England – thinking Gleneagles or similar. I would prefer it to be in the country, within a few hours drive of a transport hub. Obviously, COVID dependent, am thinking 10 ish people, and it will be end of year. Does anyone have any recommendations?

   1. There are a few fancy hotel restaurants in Aberdeenshire, Eat on the Green is one. Alternatively, somewhere in Cumbria? Where will you be coming from?

   2. I’d have a look at Crieff Hydro. Within easy driving distance of both Glasgow and Edinburgh, and close to the Famous Grouse Distillery. I think they’ve recently refurbed but can’t personally vouch for it.

      Another option is The Elms Hotel & Spa in Abberley, Worcestershire. Within driving distance of Birmingham and also Bristol (but closer to Birmingham). We have had a couple of milestone birthday meals there on various different scales (and at different ends of the spectrum – an 18th and a 90th!) and they have always taken wonderful care of us. There are a couple of private dining rooms for different sized groups.

      1. Thanks! I’ll take a look :)

   3. Yeah unless you live in driving distance don’t do this. Absolutely no way anyone is hoping on a plane for your birthday this year.

      1. Yeah, please don’t do this, period. This is exactly the type of thing that should not be happening in a pandemic.

      2. Everyone will be in driving distance

         1. Then pick something close to them not anywhere in England or Scotland and plan on a nice dinner out not a destination.

            1. Isn’t it pretty clear that they are actually IN England and Scotland? Not everyone who reads and posts here is in the US.

            2. Yeah and Inverness isn’t near London.

            3. AIRPLANE, I’m reminded of the meme/trope that everyone on the Internet is American, haha. (My phone wanted to correct that to tripe, which is about right).

               At the risk of igniting a related debate, I had a scone (rhymes with gone) with butter and jam (in that order) this afternoon…

         2. Then why does it need to be near a transit hub?

            1. Good question – everyone will be driving from slightly different places, and presumably some folk will want to stay at hotel for night. Easier when there are options.

               Thanks for the suggestions!

         3. It’s a pandemic. No destination group indoor dining for a birthday. You’ll be fine.

      3. Would it kill you to not be a dick?

         1. +1. Seriously it is out of control today.

            1. +1000

         2. +1000

   4. The Witchery in Edinburgh is amazing and close to the train station but not in the country obviously

      1. Just next door is the Cannonball restaurant which I’ve been to for a few special meals. It’s incredible.

      2. I had a wonderful group dinner at The Honours in Edinburgh once (but, like these, definitely not in the country)

   5. Nicola Sturgeon keeps threatening that she will close the border with England if there is another spike of Covid south of the border. There is also constant talk of regional lockdowns in the UK. So I don’t think it is sensible to plan a destination dinner there (or anywhere!) this far in advance.

2. Looking for a chair that can do double duty as an arm chair / reading chair but also could be pulled up to a desk to do occasional work out of. I wfh 2-4 times a month and do a few hours of schoolwork a week so I’d rather have a good armchair that I can also pull up to a desk rather than a desk chair for my bedroom.

   1. You need a c table to pull up to the chair instead.

      1. I’ll be using a real desk. I already have one and need the storage space.

         1. You can’t pull an arm chair up to a real desk.

   2. You can’t pull an armchair up to a desk unless the arms are very short.

      1. Ok so looking for recs for chairs that fit the bill. Maybe an arm chair with short arms, maybe not an arm chair. Looking for a chair that can mostly used for reading / lounging and could also be used pulled up to a desk for a few hours a week.

         1. Not a thing

            1. Gosh you’re difficult this morning. I’ve literally seen chairs at peoples desks in photos that look like they’re fine as standalone chairs as well. Just looking for some recommendations

            2. Somebody woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

            3. I think everybody woke up on the wrong side of the bed for the last six months, with good reason!

               Fortunately most of us are resisting the temptation to take it out on random internet posters…

         2. It’ll require a lot of measuring for your desk, but yes, this can be a thing.

            Check out the Article chairs Nord, Nina, Thetis, possibly Mod depending on the width of the desk opening.

   3. I think pottery barn has some nice desk chairs that don’t scream, “I’M AN OFFICE CHAIR.”

   4. Accent chairs look like they split the difference btwn arm chair and desk chair

      1. +1 yes, you’re looking for an accent chair, most likely armless

   5. Try searching “slip chairs.” These are usually on the smaller side and don’t have arms, but are cushy and cute and could probably fit in a desk.

      1. Oops, after reading the below comment I definitely meant a slipper chair.

   6. I have the Swoop slipper chair as sold by Wayfair, Target and possibly others: https://www.target.com/p/swoop-arm-chair-homepop/-/A-50567599?preselect=53733802#lnk=sametab I use it at my desk in our guestroom/office. Slipper chairs are great since they don’t have arms but they may not work as a curl-up-in reading chair. Also, since I am WFH (for now) I find the seat height is about an inch too short for my desk. Generally, a 18″ seat height works with a 30″ tall desk. Another option may be a (contemporary) wingback chair with low arms.

   7. I think you can find an office chair that doesn’t scream office chair that is comfortable and has a design element that makes it sort of stylish for home decor but it can’t have good arms because it has to fit under a desk. But I don’t think any chair that meets the desk criteria is going to be a “curl up and read” chair. I would never pick it as areading chair if it doesn’t have full and comfortable arms. But maybe that’s just me and you don’t need arms for a reading chair, in which case Pom Pom’s recs from the Article would work.

3. The impending tropical storm has made me realize that I don’t have a good rain jacket. What’s your favorite? Something I could wear around town or hiking would be preferred. Looking for max waterproof capability.

   1. I would look at the Gore-tex offerings from LL Bean. They have some that aren’t Gore-tex that are cheaper, but they are not as waterproof.

      1. +1 to this

   2. The problem with max waterproof capability is that those jackets are not at all breathable, so in my opinion not the most comfortable for walking around town. I have a patagonia torrentshell that is my absolute favorite thing for walking, hiking, even running in light rain. It’s super light and comfortable. But for hiking in heavy/consistent rain I have one from mammut that is goretex and has a special zipper that won’t let in water (it’s older, but I think ayako tour that they currently sell is closest). You don’t have to get one that expensive, though – just something with gore-tex (REI has a house brand jacket with it).

      1. I have a REI house brand rain jacket that works well.

   3. I have a Patagonia calcite jacket at love it — it is crazy waterproof yet somehow breatheable. I haven’t had a torrentshell one but I’ve heard it’s not as good. I got mine at the outlet in SLC, but having had it for a year I would pay full price for it today.

   4. I like the Patagonia Torrentshell (especially that it doesn’t have Velcro closures) but be warned that it fits narrowly in the hips. LL Bean has some decent rain jackets.

   5. I have what I think is an earlier version of this (I don’t remember the name, but this is the most similar on the website right now) and absolutely LOVE it.

      https://www.thenorthface.com/shop/womens-jackets-vests-rainwear/w-westoak-city-trench-nf0a4aha?variationId=JK3

   6. I bought the Eddie Bauer Girl on the Go Coat at the recommendation of this board a few months ago– https://www.eddiebauer.com/p/20612683/women's-girl-on-the-go(r)-trench-coat?sp=1&color=Black&size=

      I found a lot of the Patagonia/outdoor ones too boxy (I’m pear shaped). I also had trouble finding something that wasn’t too hot as I live in the SEUS. This Eddie Bauer one was perfect.

      1. Right? I’m in the SEUS, and if I’m hiking in the rain in the summer, I just wear stuff that dries quickly once it’s not raining and accept that I’m getting soaked.

      2. I have this and I love it! Get complements on it bc the cut is nice, it has a waist. And I like that it’s long so if I’m wearing a longer top or Cardigan it doesn’t awkwardly hang out

   7. It’s pricey, but the arc’teryx beta sl is incredible. Truly waterproof, yet somehow breathable. I use it as a lightweight rain jacket Year-round and as a shell when skiing/in snow. It is my single favorite piece of outdoor gear.

4. I had a weird Bumble experience over the weekend. I went on a socially distanced walk with a guy who said he also lived in my neighborhood (one of the NYC boroughs). He was very weird, which I chalked up to him being awkward. At one point, he tried to impress me by telling me how he once worked two days without sleep to get something done at work. I said I would not have done the same thing. At that point, he started clinching his fists. We were walking on a crowded public street, so I could tell he was trying to control himself. Shortly afterward, I ended the date by saying that I needed to go pack for a trip. He again acted weird by simply walking away, without any “goodbye,” or “it was nice meeting you.“ On my way back to my apartment, I felt like someone was watching me and stopped a few times to check, but never saw anyone. I thought that was the end of it and walked home. I also unmatched him right away.

   The next morning, I had just finished loading stuff into my car from my apartment (a walk up). I was sitting in my car looking up GPS when I felt someone looking at me. I looked up from my car and saw him looking at me as he was walking past by my car. He immediately turned his head away after he saw me looking at him.

   What should I make of this? The good news is that I’ll be away for at least a month, so hopefully he’ll have lost any obsession by then. Also maybe it was a coincidence since he also lived in the neighborhood? The downside is I know he knows where I live now. So if this continues, I may have to move.

   1. Nothing? He’s a weird dude, you didn’t see him follow you, he lives in your neighborhood and obviously looked at you. Keep an eye out for sure but I think jumping to “I might have to move” is very premature.

      1. Gavin de Becker would say it’s not nothing! Trust your instincts, OP. But yes hopefully it blows over while you’re away.

   2. OP I don’t like this. Please be careful and take precautions….sounds like he may live near you. Do you have someone that can keep an eye on your apartment while you are gone? Someone that you can contact when you are coming home?…

   3. Wow that is super weird and I would be COMPLETELY freaked out by seeing him watching me the next morning. That sounds like the start of a Law and Order episode or something. Getting away for a long time seems like the best possible thing to do in the situation. If you see him in a similar situation when you get back, 100% I would move.

   4. Yikes, sorry that is really freaky. I would not chalk that up to coincidence.
      I do think being away for a month will most likely make this solve itself, luckily. Maybe he’ll start to even think you don’t actually live there anymore and move on.

      1. You are correct to be wary of this guy, who may have problems manageing his anger (the “fist” reference is telling–I knew a guy at GW that they suspended and moved out of the dorm b/c he did that but also put his fist thru a wall in my friend’s dorm room when my freind did not want to be his girfreind. So you are good to be wary of such a similar doosh bag-you are so right to keep socially distant from him, both now and in the future. Going away for a month is good; he should find hopfully focus on someone else to start ooogleing in the mean time. It may be premature to move, but if you find that he is still calling or texting / or ooogeling you when you return, you can visit your police precinct, fileing a police report, and see what they think about you getting a protective order. After all, this simp already knows your name, where you live, your car, it’s license and anything else you may have told him on your walk, so it is not to early to consider getting the law on your side.

   5. Ech. Your gut is right – this is weird and scary. I would ask a friend or neighbor to keep an eye on your apartment if you have someone who will do that, but tell them to be safe too. Otherwise, see how things are when you get back.

      1. Yes please be careful. I once had a guy go nuts after we got coffee just once – he quickly became obsessed, I shut it down, he responded with weekend stuff like if he could just see me once a month every month, etc. I called my friend who was counsel at the FBI and she said to call the police. I’m just saying people can be obsessive seemingly for no reason, and you don’t know what his deal is. It’s not worth freaking out but watch out for yourself please!

         1. Sorry, weird not weekend. If anything it was daily not weekend!

      2. All of this and more. Tell everyone in the immediate vicinity that you had such an encounter and consider putting security cameras in your home/entryway. You don’t have to jump to worst case scenario but there’s a lot of super weird and dangerous things that could happen if this very sketchy guy decides to do something even more stalker-creepy when he finds out you’re on an extended trip. Engage the people around you for support – their watchful presence may be all the deterrent you need. Also if you haven’t already had the post office hold your mail, do that.

         1. I agree that this is creepy, and think lost academic’s specific suggestions are excellent.

   6. Just out of curiosity, how long did you chat with this guy before meeting up in person? Did he want to jump quickly to meeting in person? Was he weird over messages too? I usually want to chat for a while with someone before agreeing to meet in person. Like, days, even a couple weeks. I know this makes the overall process move slower, but I accept that in exchange for feeling a little safer. I hope everything goes smoothly with this, although I don’t think you’re overreacting to be concerned. Please give us an update when you return to your apartment in a month so we know you’re safe.

      1. Sounds an awful like you’re trying to blame OP for this for not doing due diligence. A man stalking her is never a woman’s fault.

         1. Wow, I wasn’t trying to blame OP at all. You definitely misread that. I also didn’t want to repeat everything the other posters had already said, which I agreed with. Looks like I’m back to Anon after only one day with a name. It’s damned if you do and damned if you don’t around here.

      2. Yeah, some of us like to meet up quickly so as to not potentially waste this much time…different strokes for different folks. Regardless, it’s not the OP’s fault this guy is nuts.

      3. No worries. We had texted back and forth for a few days. I think I had been dealing with so many flaky messages from men on Bumble that I was just grateful he texted me back. He seemed normal when we texted. After we had determined a time and location though, he seemed a little gleeful.

   7. Oooh that is creepy at the very least, definitely bordering on scary. Trust your gut, OP!

   8. So he knows where you live. Do you know his real name and other identifying information?

   9. Not an internet diagnosis but he sounds asperbergers-y.

      1. Yeah, it does sound like that! Glad you are getting away for a month – hopefully he will forget about you! Do you have some type of self protection device at home like pepper spray or a taser? Might not be a bad idea to get something like that just for all around safety. Keep us posted when you get back!

5. Hello all! I am looking for a reusable mask that I can wear to court that goes with my suits/blouses that is easy to talk and breathe in. I have a mostly navy/grey color scheme. Any recommendations for retailers or material/type? I have some cotton ones with fun prints and some disposable. Any recs?

   1. Athleta Everyday Non-Medical masks are great and come in neutral colors.

      1. I found these too breathable for my comfort level – they don’t pass the light test.

         1. What is the light test? I googled but didn’t find it.

            1. I think it’s holding a lighter in front of your masked face and trying to blow it out. If you succeed, the mask isn’t protective enough.

         2. I was actually referring to a different test, which is holding it up to the light. If you can see light between the fibers, it is too loosely woven. https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-homemade-mask-material-DIY-face-mask-ppe.html

   2. Brave New Look (nose wire,adjustable ear loops, contoured fit, filter pocket) works for me right now and comes in solid neutrals.

   3. St. John has knit masks that I bought to go with my suiting. I bought camel and grey.

   4. I think the Johnny Was floral masks look nice with suits. I have the silk.

   5. Somewhat unrelated, but a hack in case you find a mask you like but ear loops are too large-you can buy little plastic tubes that slip over most ear loops (I used a paper clip to push it through) and voila, adjustable! Wish I had figured this out before trying to many different ones.

   6. Old Navy has a lot of neutral plain/menswear prints masks in your color scheme. I bought a bunch of them for my husband and he’s been happy with them.

   7. Starks Vacuums masks!

6. I just went through a break up. It was sad in some ways but overall good, there were some big character things that didn’t mesh well. A huge win, though, was this guy was the first one ever (I’m early 30s) who never made me feel guilty or tried to make me feel guilty for having a demanding career. I work hard and my job often requires emailing or drafting at night. Sometimes that means I have to cancel plans or sit and work on a couch next top someone watching tv. It as interesting realizing that this kind of guy exists – that something bad was missing, and that was one of the really good things about our relationship. So I share this to stay, if any of you high-achieving Women who are looking for your person and hope that person will understand your career and your boundaries… There’s Hope! And sometimes the absence of something bad can be really really good.

   1. You sound a little happy and sad about breaking up with him–there must have been some reasons; he might not have been a high acheiver like you. We, as professional women, often pick men who do not challenge us, but they are not challenging in other ways, so we move on b/c we are used to working hard, and being challenged. My ex was lazy and watched TV while I worked at night, but often interrupted me when he wanted s-x or even sexueal attention leading only to his pleasure, not mine, so I am NOT sad about not haveing that schlub in my life any more. I do miss the concept of haveing a boyfreind to do stuff with, but it wasn’t really worth it to have to put up with a schlub solely on his terms just to say I had a boyfreind. FOOEY on that!

   2. Hugs! Still going through one as well. I’m happy that you found that and now know that there is that same possibility elsewhere. A real power couple! The relationship that just ended for me, he was so motivating regarding my career, and I loved having his advice and insights. He truly pushed me to be the best version of myself professionally. This breakup is the first one where I really can see myself with the person if we both work on some things in ourselves (mainly over thinking, fear, etc…we both had it). We both caught feelings soon because of our circumstances, he started pulling away because the societal notions of moving too fast, and I pulled away because Cosmo told me to give him space (don’t listen to those)…so since he could feel me pulling away, he pulled away more……*sigh* we handled it poorly. I often wonder if I showed up for him like how I had been before I was scared, to show him that hey, I’m here for this, if we could have both learned from it. Whatever you feel is valid. I of course know I can find someone else who can give me what I deserve and not make me afraid to give someone what I think they deserve, but since that can only come through us working on this in ourselves (me with my therapist), I sometimes beat myself up for feeling naive or hoping that we will cross paths again once we grow. FWIW, we’re both late 20s/about to 30. All this to say, I’m having an internal battle of trying to work on a friendship with him that we both said we wanted, but accept that I DO wish it would have worked out…but still knowing I can find someone else. See? I overthink.

      1. Wow no stop all this nonsense. He doesn’t want to date you. You want to date him. Don’t waste time figuring out how you were wrong. Stop having contact with him and move on. Now is not time to be friends.

         1. Hi! OP to the comment you responded to! I disagree and know from personal experience that sometimes people who don’t want to date you can be your friends. One of my best friends is someone I dated for a couple months! But please, without knowing what happened in the relationship and what I actually do need to work on with myself for my next relationship to be better, don’t tell me what I do or don’t want. I actually don’t want to date him if he can’t work on some personal things in himself. And honestly, I wasn’t giving him my best self because of childhood trauma. A lot of what I’m working on right now with my emotions that were brought to my attention from my therapist because, actually, some of this was my responsibility too. Not all of it, but there are things I need to own up to it to make sure my next relationship is great!

            1. Ok have fun with that! Pro tip if you don’t want any input on your life choices you can always not share them with the Internet.

            2. She wasn’t asking for input. No need to discourage people from sharing their experiences.

         2. Oof, harsh but I agree. With guys, there is no “societal notions of moving too fast”. He wasn’t interested in taking that step. Someone that wants to be with you won’t have these kinds of excuses (men, use your real words!) and until then, women need to see them for what they are.

            1. +1. He pulled away because he wanted to pull away. If he wanted to be with you, he would pursue you. Don’t tell youself “I actually don’t want to date him if he can’t work on some personal things in himself” which is translated to “I want to date him if he could just change this thing about himself.” No no no, people are not improvement projects, see what he is, in front of you and say yes or no to that. He doesn’t want to date you, so that’s already a no. Move on.

            2. I’m the OP of the comment. I do agree with you to a certain extent. Without sharing a lot of details, we moved very quickly (I had heard he has a tendency to do that)…and then didn’t have to move quickly anymore but never talked about the dynamic of the relationship would look going forward. We danced around things, good or bad, because the other person was as well. My point of my post was me saying if my own actions had been different (because I did have some fault in this), I wonder what would have happened. If I had just been my normal self and not let my almost crippling fear of getting hurt kicked in. You get your answer sooner, good or bad, when you apologetically show up.

            3. Anon @ 12:03 – hello! I’m OP to the comment. I really didn’t think it would open this conversation. But actually, I do think people are improvement projects. We just have to do that improvement ourselves. I’m not holding out for some guy that doesn’t want a relationship with me. It’s more of a reflection of how my own actions could have been dramatically different and what the outcome could have been. I can’t take back anything that happened, nor do I want to necessarily, but I know I will never act in a similar way in next relationship. These are reflections I’m working on in therapy right now, and she’s doing a great job at highlighting the moments where I could have done X and the reason I didn’t is because of Y with my childhood.

            4. Hello there! I’m not anon, I use a regular handle.

               “I do think people are improvement projects. We just have to do that improvement ourselves.”

               Oh dear. Agree to disagree, I suppose.

7. To the poster who was asking recently about someone–her partner? a friend’s partner? I cant find the old post unfortunately–who was having issues with having to go to the bathroom constantly and having trouble going out because of it:
   I saw your post really late that night and have been crazy with work since so I havent been on the s*te, but I just wanted to share that I have the exact same issue you described. I was diagnosed with IBS and associated panic disorder with agoraphobia (fear of feeling trapped–this could be any situation where I feel trapped without access to a bathroom). Because of my frequent sudden, urgent need to use a bathroom, I developed a huge amount of anxiety and panic attacks to go along with it. People find things that help and develop rituals to try to deal with it (i.e. having to go to the bathroom multiple times before leaving the house, like I think you mentioned). I definitely still struggle daily with it, but it ebbs and flows. Right now, I’m at a not-too-bad place. Anxiety medication and CBT therapy have been my biggest helping tools. Doing the low FODMAP diet also helped me identify some trigger foods, but sometimes it just happens no matter how good you are with your diet. There are some Facebook groups for people with IBS and even one for IBS w/ agoraphobia that I find helpful to commiserate with other people and know that I’m not the only one in the world struggling with the same issues.
   The biggest thing I would ask is that you and the people around him to do is to try to be patient. I know it sucks for you/your friend having to wait around. Believe me, the situation sucks for the person with IBS more. Whenever I get the feeling people are waiting on me and getting frustrated, it just raises my anxiety, which makes my attacks worse. It’s a self-perpetuating cycle. My sister is by far the most patient person about my problems and always reassures me when I apologize for taking so long, and honestly, I’m the calmest around her so my symptoms are usually more mild when I’m with her.

   1. Hi, I’m OP of that post. The person in question is kind of my nephew (weird family stuff but his mom is functionally my sister) and is in his early 20s. Your description of anxiety and agoraphobia sounds spot on. I will share your recommendations with him.

      He will be very resistant to the FODMAP diet – we have all suggested that before, even the GI doc who was fairly dismissive. I think part of it is being a young guy.

      1. Yeah that’s like super basic standard of care stuff.

8. Does anyone have the Athleta masks? Ate they lightweight / breathable?

   1. Yes, the Athleta Everyday masks are great. Have the On The Move masks on order but they haven’t arrived yet.

   2. I posted above but I find them too breathable for my comfort level – they don’t pass the light test. https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-homemade-mask-material-DIY-face-mask-ppe.html

      1. PS – I’m referring to the everyday masks; haven’t tried the others.

9. My town has a a big contingent of people who don’t believe Covid is real and/or it is no big deal.I found out that there was a private 300 person party in my town on Saturday night…a lot of the people who attended are the same folks who want schools open with no restrictions. I am despondent. I want schools open too, but it will only be possible if we bring the numbers down with social distancing, masks, etc. Does anyone else feel like they are in an alternate universe from the people around them?

   1. Yeah, there is a lot of socializing going on around us, and a lot of parents letting their children mingle. I reworked our supply chain so we only go out every other week, but I don’t know what else we can do to stay safe. Suggestions welcome.

   2. Right there with you. I think our district may be the only one in our state that is still set to open in person, and it’s going 5 days a week with full class sizes and no physical distancing. There is an on-line option, but it’s a joke. We have friends who are vacationing in hot spots and family who are traveling on airplanes and eating in restaurants. The more risks everyone around us takes, the tighter my nuclear family has to lock down to protect ourselves. I am angrier than I’ve ever been in my life.

      1. This is close to my situation. These folks want no restrictions on school whatsoever. The online option is not well though through. So, I have 2 choices – my children don’t get educated, or I throw them to the wolves.

         Maybe I’m wrong for this based on comments below, but I am pretty moderate too. I don’t go to parties, but I do go on outside walks with friends. I have eaten at a restaurant 2x since March – both times outside. I do take some calculated risks/

   3. Yeah, I’ve been really surprised at the people who want schools open but who also want to do everything they would normally do in the summer. It just doesn’t work like that. In my opinion, basically everything else should be closed (with robust aid) so schools for elementary students can be opened. I don’t have kids.

      1. Oh also, I want classes to be held outside as much as humanly possible. I think it would actually be great for kids.

         1. More outdoor time would be great for kids, pandemic or no.

            1. My school is refusing to do this because of the fear of school shooters. They think outdoor classrooms of little kids are sitting ducks. So sad.

   4. Here’s how I look at it – I think the types of people who get the most attention/notice are the ones at either end of the spectrum – people who throw 300+ person parties and people who literally don’t go out ever – they’re interesting to talk about/discuss, but not all that common, at least in my observation. I think most people are doing their best – socializing in small groups outside where possible, wearing masks indoors/outdoors when distancing isn’t possible, and generally being good, but that kind of “moderate” approach doesn’t get a lot of attention or notice. I try not to focus on the people I can’t control, and just continue behaving appropriately in a way that I can continue for at least the rest of the year.

      1. The moderate approach isn’t good enough, but people who practice it refuse to believe it. We should not be doing optional socializing and finagling barely-compliant dinners with other households right now as the pandemic is entering an extreme stage. It sucks, but this is what we get when we refused to shut down the first time.

         1. Well, some of us live in places where it’s reasonably under control. I also live alone – if the options are to not see anyone until there’s a vaccine (maybe never) or take the risk of seeing people – I’ll take the later. I think I’d be near suicidal with no social contact at all for the rest of the year. Maybe try some sympathy for how people are handling things? And ponder that your extreme approach likely prompts other people to say “well, screw it – I can’t do that, so I’ll just ignore all the rules”

            1. It’s not the “extreme” approach people you should be blaming for your mental health risks – it’s the people who refuse to believe it’s a pandemic. I’m sympathetic to what it must be like to live alone, but wouldn’t it have been much better to do a harsh and brief shut down instead of this prolonged hell?

            2. +1 to anon @9:58. If we had all gone on genuine lockdown for about 6 weeks this spring until caseloads had died down to a manageable level, then local authorities had been aggressive about testing and contact tracing, we would be in a much different place right now.

            3. We did the harsh shutdown in NY and NJ already so now we can go to Target and the beach. And WRT to the sanctimony about getting everything delivered, that’s hardly a shutdown since the deliverers are all out and about all day.

            4. We did in Massachusetts, and now things are trending up. If I see one more giant backyard graduation party in a backyard of my suburban town I’m going to absolutely flip my lid.

            5. @anon 10:03- well, we didn’t do that so here we are.

            6. Um, sure anon @ 9:58 – but that’s not what happened, so here we are. Some of us likely to live in reality rather than conforming our behavior around a delusion that if we just never go out, we’ll be super shut down and things will get better.

         2. The approach that my state allows is good enough. If you don’t care for it, don’t do it.

            1. So you are saying people should just do whatever they feel like? That means the pandemic will never end.

            2. @anon at 10:22- people ARE doing whatever they feel like. If they want to be responsible, they are. If they don’t, they aren’t.

            3. That’s literally not what she’s saying – she’s saying if her state allows it, you can do it.

         3. Hi from NJ where we are mostly responsible and socializing and wearing masks and staying outside and not in an extreme stage of the pandemic at all.

         4. I don’t think you know what finagling means…

            1. I know exactly what it means and used it exactly as I intended.

      2. I’m in the moderate group, but then I read here that people have gotten literally everything delivered since March and don’t go anywhere ever, and it feels like I am in the risk-taking one. Which is obviously not the case since I’m not traveling or socializing, but my family goes to a non-crowded beach and then that gets criticized.

         1. I also think the people who behave moderately don’t tend to post here… It’s all the people who are 100% locked down since March (absolutely insane/impossible for someone who lives alone and couldn’t get an amazon fresh spot to save her life). I swear we’re out there! Wearing our masks and seeing friends in parks!

            1. *raises hand* cases in my area are relatively stable. I would call us moderate. We’re not socializing with anyone apart from our parents but are comfortable with more than we were in spring.

               Things we are doing now that we didn’t in March or April-
               -don’t worry about needing an extra errand during the week vs. our once-weekly grocery run (masked)
               -seeing parents indoors for meals, but we all are taking this seriously and we (DH and I) actually recently tested negative after travel just in case
               -outdoor dining at restaurants that are behaving responsibly (like – tables are more than six feet apart, open air, staff wearing masks properly, not the type that are just paying lip service to regulations but in practice packing people in)
               -non-emergency medical care (dentist, derm), masked to the extent possible
               -having maintenance workers in our home (masked)
               -haircuts (masked)
               -responsible travel (staying at own house so able to maintain distance from others while on vacation; isolated upon return just in case, and subsequently tested negative)

               Things that we are in absolutely no hurry to resume-
               -discretionary indoor activities like bars, dining, or retail shopping
               -personal services like manicures, spa appointments, etc
               -gym
               -office work that can be done WFH (happy to say our employers are likely waiting until next year…)
               -large group activities (whether indoor or outdoor) like concerts, church, theater, weddings, parties, etc

            2. Some of these are no-brainers. Nonemergency medical care is important to avoid potential emergencies that might take place during a second wave. Same with maintenance workers – it’s not realistic not to get appliances repaired and so on. Travel and dining out are more discretionary but it depends on the precautions taken.

            3. +1 to Cat’s comment. This is basically everything we’re doing. I have to admit that I’m insanely jealous of hte people who are traveling right now, even if I don’t necessarily agree with that choice.

            4. +2 to Cat’s comment

         2. We are moderate. My husband has had to go to work the whole time and was expressly told NOT to wear a mask in March, so there’s that. We drove to our mountain house, hiked, ate in one indoor restaurant, I’ve done three outdoor happy hours, and we’ve done patio dinners at my sister’s house. I go to outdoor workout classes and we do in-person grocery shopping and have gone to several doctor’s appointments (not by choice though). We wear masks indoors and when we are within 6 feet of anyone, and I feel pretty confident that we haven’t given anyone coronavirus. Unless this virus is managing to leap several feet through mere breathing in the span of seconds from asymptomatic people, which I’m pretty sure it’s not. I know that a lot of people on this board like to feel smug that they’re doing covid better than anyone and that sanctimonious attitude is what makes a lot of us moderates just avoid posting anything about it.

            1. +100 your last sentence.

            2. Just to be clear – I’m really not talking about the moderate approach which I follow as well. I’m just overwhelmed by the people who just don’t want to take any measures whatsoever because it is all a hoax anyway.

            3. You have it completely wrong. Absolutely no one is feeling “smug.” They’re upset and terrified and yes, sometimes lashing out in anger. Smug is 100% the wrong word.

            4. Sanctimonious? We are trying to save the lives of those in our family who are at risk. And that’s everyone over 60. People like you who think going to parties and other gatherings is ok because you erroneously think not having symptoms means you are ok are literally killing the elderly.

            5. Literally killing the elderly is exactly the type of comment I find absurd.

            6. I hope no one’s terrified and angry because I choose to have a routine dental visit. Or that we grocery shop for ourselves. Unless someone is high risk, those are necessary activities that can be performed safely.

            7. Yep, smug and sanctimonious are the correct words for you.

               “Ok with literally killing the elderly”

               The death rate is around 3%.

               Going to a socially distanced outdoor happy hour does not mean automatic death for the elderly.

            8. Lol yup anonymous at 10:43 there we go. What exactly in my list of activities would be killing anyone? Is it the sitting in a backyard with two people and my husband? Is it wearing a mask at the doctor’s office? Maybe it’s the hiking, where we never came within six feet of anyone? Please, do tell me exactly which of my activities would kill an elderly person.

            9. Straw man, Anon at 10:55. Obviously people are pissed about the happy hours and the dining and the travel and the backyard parties, not the dentist. You know this.

            10. +100,000 to the last sentence. And then the commenters below started…

            11. “Literally killing the elderly,” and the elderly being anyone over 60.

                The 60-year-olds are the people running my office and requiring everyone to be at work in person because they don’t like technology. Last week, my 65-year-old boss asked me why I was wearing a mask in his office (it was because he texted me to see him at 6 pm when I was on my way out the door, and masks are required in the building, and I already had mine on and forgot to take it off to go see him).

                My parents are over 65 and just finished a road trip with friends, also over 65, through Kansas and Missouri. They stayed in hotels, ate in restaurants, and visited multiple indoor museums. Tomorrow they’re road tripping to stay with 4 sets of friends and family throughout North Carolina and South Carolina, all over 60, all aware of what my parents are doing.

                I’m worried about myself getting sick, but the elderly are making their own decisions.

            12. The death rate for the elderly is NOT 3% – that’s the average across all ages. For people at risk, it’s 10-25%, or more, depending on their comorbidities. Something that has a 1 in 10 to 1+ in 4 chance of killing someone really does feel like killing grandparents. At least get the data right if you’re going to quote it. . .

            13. Ok, but the elderly and everyone has to assess their own risk accordingly.

            14. > this virus is managing to leap several feet through mere breathing in the span of seconds from asymptomatic people

                But it is. This is how it spreads from asymptomatic people. Just wear your mask. I’m not here to tell you to stay in your house 24/7, but wear your mask and don’t be in denial about how it spreads.

            15. Anon at 11:00 – 3% is an enormous death rate. In a relatively small town of 100,000, that’s 3,000 deaths. Losing 3% of the population would devastate the economy (in case that’s all you care about.)

                Really callous of you to act like that’s nothing.

            16. What? The death rate is among those who get it. So no, it is not 3000 in a town of 100k.

   5. Yes. My 85-year-old FIL just posted a photo of himself dining indoors at a restaurant. It’s as if he is purposely trying to die.

      1. Or maybe he realizes that life is short, and he doesn’t want to spend the rest of his locked up like he’s a prisoner.

         1. No, it’s that he doesn’t care that my husband is literally going to lose his marbles when his dad dies, and the kids and I are going to be locked up at home with a person who is seriously mentally ill and no available resources. He is a selfish jerk.

            1. If your FIL is 85, this is going to happen sooner or later. He’s not going to live forever. Please figure out a plan for your family when your FIL dies now while you have time. The answer isn’t to demand that your FIL live forever.

            2. I mean your FIL probably doesn’t have much time left, pandemic or otherwise. Letting your husband’s lack of coping ability dictate what your FIL’s final years look like is striking me as far more selfish. Losing parents is a perfectly normal thing that we all have to go through at some point — I hope your husband gets some professional help when the time comes.

            3. The usual plans don’t apply during a pandemic.

            4. Your husband needs mental health help now if he can’t cope with the possibility of his 85 year old father dying. There are tons of available resources and no reason you need to be locked up at home.

         2. Anon@ 11:08, Does he want to spend the rest of it dying a painful death?

            1. There are way too many people here who think that covid is a death sentence — please get a grip.

            2. If you’re 85, it is a death sentence.

            3. It’s not necessarily a quick & painless death either, so I’m having a hard time believing that people are truly fine with catching it as long as they’ve enjoyed their last hurrahs.

            4. Even at 85, it’s not a guaranteed death sentence — heck, he might not even catch it all (y’all seem to forget that part too). But guess what… the elderly are still allowed to make their own decisions! So FIL can do as he pleases, like it or not.

            5. “If you’re 85, it is a death sentence.”
               This is just flat out wrong. The mortality rate is something around 15-20% for 80+. That is higher than any other age group, true, but the strong odds are the person will survive. Catastrophizing like this is really unhelpful. If my parents contract Covid-19, I want their healthcare providers to treat it as something they can beat. I have had explicit conversations with my parents about this, too, that this is not something they should accept as a death sentence if it happens. My mother is prone to pulling the plug on her husband (and herself). I already saw it. And I needed to be clear that this is not a situation where we all just give up and accept death. You aren’t saving anyone with this attitude. Stop thinking this taking this extreme stand is you doing for everyone what they are refusing to do for themselves. You aren’t helping in the way you thing you are.

            6. Just limiting your imagination to the death rate, as if this is a 0/1 binary thing where you either die or you’re 100% ok, is not how it actually works. If you don’t die, you’re very often extremely ill for a long, long time. If you’re 85, this would be the difference between good quality of life vs poor quality of life.

            7. If you want to catastrophize, sure. But you could also get sick and have no symptoms, or recover quickly & fully. Or you could not get sick at all.

               I know some of you desperately want this to be more horrific and deadly than it actually is, in order to help justify the 5+ months you’ve lost. But (thankfully!) that’s just not the reality that we’re working with.

      2. Wow, based on the responses to this post, the commenters here have really jumped the shark.

         1. Yeah. These nuts are going to be so disappointed when there is no humanitarian prize at the end for making the fewest threshold crossings. But these are also people who have been competing their entire lives for non-existent honors and feeling dejected for the lack of recognition of their “betterness” for decades.

            1. +1 And so much pent up anxiety with nowhere to go. It’s really sad to watch this conversation happen daily.

            2. I think it’s sad that you are so determined to minimize a global pandemic that you’ve taken to calling people more cautious than you names. Go back to Fox News I guess.

            3. It’s entirely possible to take this seriously and also recognize a lot of pent up anxiety with no where to go on this board.

   6. Honestly, I hit my breaking point last weekend after seeing the massive charity concert in the Hamptons with minimal mask wearing and social distancing. All I want is for schools to safely open as soon as possible, and every large gathering like the Hamptons concert further delays it for the rest of us.

      1. Mine was the 100-person wedding in a church in SF. From a local article:

         “The couple getting married has not been identified, but as the Chronicle reports they were intent on holding the rescheduled wedding regardless of city health orders that still prohibited such indoor church services and large gatherings. Guests and family members reportedly flew in for the wedding from Tennessee, Arizona, and San Diego, and all of those travelers could potentially have brought the virus back home with them — so far, only ten of the attendees including the newlyweds have tested positive, and it sounds like most or all were symptomatic.

         On the wedding day, guests were instructed to use an underground parking garage and enter the church through there, not through the front entrance, in order not to attract attention. As the Chronicle reports, Father Gael Sullivan, the pastoral administrator of the church, had allowed the ceremony to go on, and says that the front doors were kept closed to keep the public out.”

         Shame.

         1. What the actual frack? Good lord we as a species are doomed, and rightfully so.

            People are terrible.

            1. Yeah, honestly I agree. We’re terrible for this planet and when we go extinct because of our own hubris, it’ll be no more than we deserve.

         2. I read that in the Chronicle last weekend and I was so furious. They quoted two people who said the wedding was God’s will and that He was looking out for them.

            If you have that much faith in God, don’t you think He also created public health officers who were trying to keep you safe?

         3. This reminds me of the old joke where the guy won’t leave his house in a hurricane because God will protect him:

            Neighbor comes by, asks guy if he wants a ride out of town, guy declines, “No thanks, God will protect me.” Water gets higher.

            Rescue boat comes by, asks guy if he wants a lift, guy declines, saying, “No thanks, God will protect me.”

            Water gets higher, guy winds up in his attic, helicopter comes by, guy says, “No thanks, God will protect me.” Water gets higher.

            Guy winds up on his roof, praying aloud, heavens open, God says, “I sent a neighbor, I sent a boat, I sent a helicopter! I was *trying* to protect you!”

      2. This is like that punishment in grade school where the whole class has to sit silently for 15 minutes and if one person talks, the clock resets. I’m surrounded by talkers.

         1. You win the internet today.

         2. This analogy is totally apt.

   7. This thread is a really good demonstration of why this pandemic won’t end anytime soon in the USA. People want to have a moderate responses to an extreme emergency. Nearly every other country on the planet has responded more drastically and had better results but Americans are crying about being “imprisoned” because they need to stay home in the age of the internet. These deniers and moderates take a “I should be able to do what I want” stance regarding a PLAGUE!? Jeez, this was my confirmation that I can’t continue to raise my kids here. We live in a truly disturbing, selfish, and inept culture…moderates included.

      1. Yup. It sucks.

      2. I’ve been following public health advice to the letter. If you don’t think that’s good enough, that’s a you problem not a me problem.

         1. This, 100%.

         2. It’s a problem with the public health advice.

            1. Well I’m not a public health expert so I won’t pretend to know better than someone who is. All I can do is follow the guidelines and hope for the best.

            2. I think the problem is that the public health experts have been obstructed from informing the public health guidelines.

         3. +1

10. Any vicarious shopping help anyone wants to help with?
    I’m looking for a front entry table. I’d like it to a) have some sort of small drawers for our masks and keys and stuff b) I’d like to incorporate into it some sort of solution for shoes that stay by the door (6 pairs usually or so?) to look neat or even be hidden. Doesn’t have to be actually part of the table, maybe baskets underneath, although I don’t love that either (do the bottoms of the shoes get the tops of the other shoes gross?) – but has to be simple enough to that my 4 and 6 year olds will keep up with the system on their own.

    I also wouldn’t mind something a little unique/funky looking, since it is the one piece of furniture that doesn’t have to coordinate with the rest of a room.

    Looking for a unicorn that I made up in my head that doesn’t exist?

    Thanks all!!!

    1. I don’t have anything like that, but felt like doing some internet browsing. Room and board has some different console tables that may be good options (the linear and the kenwood). You could look at sideboards as a general furniture option. They often come in cooler styles, and have lots of storage. The Geome sideboard at article I like, but doesn’t have the small drawers. I know lots of people who have done different hacks with the narrow Ikea shoe cabinets. Another option would be to combine a storage bench for shoe storage plus a wall organizer that could store keys/masks etc. Pottery barn has some good inspiration here, even if it isn’t your particular style.

       1. Thanks! I like the Geome. Shoes could go in the bottom of the cabinet. Wish it had drawers but maybe I could come up with a hack from the container store for the top shelving.

    2. What about something like this: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/hemnes-shoe-cabinet-with-2-compartments-white-20169559/

       We have this in our entry way. It has to be mounted to the wall because it doesn’t have back legs, but it has plenty of storage space for masks, keys, shoes, and bags.

       1. +1. We have had this for 3-4 years now and it has held up great to daily use.

       2. +2. We have 4 people in our family so have the ones with four compartments and it’s held up for 6+ years now. I am a little envious of the ones with a drawer on top (they didn’t have those when I bought mine) but will buy it again if/when we move.

    3. I’d separate the shoes from furniture and get deep baskets for them that fit under the console – there’s no way to make shoes look neat when you can see them

    4. For good shoe storage solutions, look at Yamazaki Home. It’s a Japanese company that makes sturdy household goods and geared towards ingenious storage for small spaces. Their furniture may not be what you’re looking for, but they have plenty of shoe racks that could work under a table.

11. This shirt is beautiful and 100% my style. Clap emoji.

    1. I wish I could imagine having a use for a formal work wardrobe anytime in the foreseeable future. My team is WFH at least until January, but probably until this time next year.

       1. Us as well, I just re-upped on casual Zoom appropriate togs for Fall, and did not buy anything dressy other than a washable skirt I can wear for our at home Anniversary dinner. So sad!

       2. +1 same here.

    2. I think it’s gorgeous but I think it would be tragic on short-waisted, big-busted, short-necked me.

12. hi everyone! After a postponement of my wedding that was supposed to be at the beginning of COVID, we rescheduled our big wedding to the end of August. Of course we postponed the big reception until later, but we’re still getting married in an intimate ceremony at the end of the month with our parents. I am so anxious about this! I’m not worried about my future husband or marriage but more just getting everything done and making sure it actually happens (it’s been fairly traumatic to cancel and postpone this big life event so many times). The wedding is not at all “done”, we’re still very much figuring out details and I’m a pit of anxiety this Monday morning . Posting I guess for commiseration form any other people who are just trying to ge tmarried now and it’s been so hard—hopefully in one month I will be reminiscing about the great small wedding I had (please covid let us have it!)

    1. Oh, I am so sorry. With so much uncertainty right now, having to reschedule your wedding must be so stressful. You’re completely normal to be sad an anxious about this. I hope you’re able to get the reception you want later.

       I know two couples who have had intimate ceremonies with immediate family in the past couple of weeks, and while it wasn’t at all like what they had initially planned, both couples said they were so happy with the day and it turned out to be really meaningful. I think of them as almost wartime weddings, what a story to tell future generations!

       I know that can’t make up for what you have lost, though. Maybe try to work in a couple of small details you had planned for your original wedding? And go easy on yourself, there’s no wrong way to do this! Nobody has (yet) make a guidebook to planning a wedding in a pandemic :-)

    2. If I were in your shoes I would pull a Princess Beatrice and spend ALL MY MONEY on a gigantic floral arch at the door of the chapel so I could have the “peeking out from among the blossoms” photo.

       Hugs to you, Anecdote about a great small wedding: A friend of mine (who was the Best Woman in my wedding) was all in a tizzy about her wedding, for a variety of reasons, so on a whim my husband offered to get ordained by the Universal Life Church and marry her and her fiance as we passed through her town on a private train car on our vacation. It all came together in six days: the bridal couple, us, and six strangers. Five minute ceremony and dinner on the train, off at the next stop for the wedding night in a nice hotel. She thought “well, we’ll do this to make it legal and worry about the real wedding later.” And then afterwards she realized that it WAS the “real wedding” and it was perfect just as it was. So my wish for you is that your small wedding is perfect just as it is and that you love it and cherish it!

       1. Whoa! How does one arrange a private train car for vacation? That sounds awesome.

          1. It was the most awesome thing in the whole world. Alas, I fear it may be dying out from a combination of the current administration trying to kill Amtrak altogether, and the pandemic. Anyway you can check it out here: https://www.luxurytrainclub.com/trains/private-rail-cars/#

             We were on the Silver Solarium, which you can see on that site but which, alas, has been sold and is out of commission.

    3. I know how you feel!! My fiance and I had hoped to have a big wedding and formal reception this winter. We are waiting about 6 more weeks to make the cancellation call out of naive hope that a viable vaccine or a “miracle” cure will present itself, but we already are emotionally and mentally prepared for postponement. We’ve decided that our backup plan is a private ceremony/elopement this year with our dream reception in either 2021 or (if the US is still a mess next year) in 2022. At that point, we’ll just call it a vow renewal. I know it’s so selfish and frivolous of me when people are literally dying during pandemic, but I have cried quite a few tears over it all.

       1. That’s not selfish! Selfish is my cousin having a wedding of 150 people *including my 95 year old grandmother* in two weeks (in Illinois, where this is illegal, and would be completely irresponsible even if it were legal). You’re allowed to feel sad about it. I’m so sorry :-(

          1. I’m in Illinois. I say call the cops on it. Beyond ridiculous.

          2. Aww thank you for the kind words!

    4. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. But I can assure you that your friends are grateful to you! My husband is supposed to be a groomsman in a 200+ person wedding next month, where many medical professionals are invited. We’re in the Midwest and cases are surging. We have a 3 month old and toddler and use our 60+ parents as part time childcare. My husband finally had to back out of the wedding this week. He kept hoping they would either cancel or the governor would ban weddings (nope, up to 300 people is still allowed!). He feels horrible as this is a friend of over 30 years.

       Don’t sweat the details. Everything will be fine and soon after the wedding, you’ll only remember the joy you felt, not the color of the flowers. Congratulations!

       1. What moron governor is this, allowing such gatherings?

    5. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. But I can assure you that your friends are grateful to you! My husband is supposed to be a groomsman in a 200+ person wedding next month, where many medical professionals are invited. We’re in the Midwest and cases are surging. We have a 3 month old and toddler and use our 60+ parents as part time childcare. My husband finally had to back out of the wedding this week. He kept hoping they would either cancel or the governor would ban weddings (nope, up to 300 people is still allowed!). He feels horrible as this is a friend of over 30 years.

       Don’t sweat the details. Everything will be fine and soon after the wedding, you’ll only remember the joy you felt, not the color of the flowers. Congratulations!

    6. We cancelled ours, had some major drama with our venue (including threatening to sue us for the entire balance), and are now planning to elope, just the two of us. We don’t want our parents to have to travel. We’re actually planning a secret elopement, and it’s the first time I’ve been excited about the wedding since the pandemic hit. You’re definitely not alone going through this stress and sadness. Whatever you end up deciding to do, it will be wonderful. Congrats!

    7. Commiseration! We planned our wedding for later this fall, and needless to say, we have no real idea what to do about it (except some variation of what you’re suggesting, which is to get married in a small ceremony now and have the big party later. But we haven’t figured out what that would look like yet). No advice, but I’m right there with you in this unusually stressful season of wedding planning.

13. People who are “extreme” tend to have “extreme” problems like cancer or other health risks, FYI.

    1. Maybe, but not all. I have cancer, and am in the moderate group. I don’t know how many more summers I’ll get, so I’m careful, but I refuse to not live my life…

       1. Don’t you live your life at home, though? I’m high-risk, I missed several trips/outings with friends I had been looking forward to for over a year, I haven’t seen my parents since February, I haven’t been able to do my outdoor hobbies, and I want to get back to normal as much as anyone else. However, I’m reading lots of books, I’m knitting something for my best friend’s baby, I’ve tried new recipes, I’ve reconnected with two relatives (one of whom lives alone) for a weekly Saturday chat, I go on walks with my husband, etc. It’s much harder for people who live alone, but I don’t feel like I’m “not living” just because I have to focus on indoor activities right now.

          1. I mean, I’m not flying on planes or traveling or eating in restaurants, but I do go to the outdoor pool, the outdoor farmer’s market, walk the local greenways, have socially-distanced outdoor dinners with friends, and yes, have seen my parents… Sitting at home for two years reading books would kill me.

          2. I think this is really personal and depends on what’s important to you from a quality of life perspective. You are happy enough with the indoor life not to feel the sense of loss the poster above does, but not everyone would be, especially if they may not have many years left. This is why my mid-70s parents are seeing me and my new baby even though we’re not able to be fully isolated (I have stepkids and their mom is less conservative than we are so we’re indirectly exposed to more people) – they don’t know how many years they have and they prefer to take the risk in order to see their grandchild.

             1. No, of course I feel a sense of loss as well. As I mentioned, I’ve missed out on some major events and I’m particularly sad that I have to knit for my best friend’s baby instead of visiting like we had planned. I’m also under a lot of stress worrying about my health and trying to manage my boss’s expectations about WFH. I think people think that introverts or people with indoor hobbies don’t care that it’s a pandemic, but we’ve all missed out on important milestones too and are coping with it as best we can.

          3. Well, that’s good for you. A lot of people feel differently – like they are “not living” and missing out on huge things right now. Single people have posted here that they feel they are “losing time” to meet someone, extroverts are not getting in person socialization to re-charge their batteries and getting screen fatigue, and a lot of people enjoy the outdoors and don’t want to read books at home for 2 years. Celebrations, milestones, and grief are not taking place in the normal way that we all expected them to and it’s huge for a lot of us. I’m not single and don’t live alone but I hate knitting and find zero joy in cooking recipes or domestic things, my full life is not “lived” inside my house, I thrive on business and vacation international travel on planes, rooftop bars at sunset, dining out in group dinners, etc.

             1. I agree that these are tremendous losses, but there are news stories going around right now about disabled people being deprioritized for care based on “quality of life” considerations. I think there has to be a better way to describe these losses than “not living,” because there are so many people who already live this way whose lives are still valuable. And it isn’t what they wanted either; many of them thrived on more active lives before they became ill.

             2. Well, that’s just nitpicking word choice. The original comment you replied to actually said “not live MY LIFE” not “not living” and I took it “not living” from your comment anyway. I think it’s pretty clear from context of both of these comments we mean “not living my life in a meaningful way for me.”

    2. Yes, thank you for saying it. I’m really jealous right now of people who are able to socialize and go out with masks without going against their doctor’s advice. I have missed some once-in-a-lifetime family events that I would have been able to attend if the US had responded successfully to this pandemic. I don’t know when life will get back to normal for me, and I feel like most my social circles are moving on without me at this point.

       1. I was discussing this with my sisters this weekend, as we postponed our 3rd postponement of our annual sister trip. I’m high risk due to a chronic heart/lung disease. My world is growing smaller and smaller. My life is now just a tiny shadow of it’s previous self. I’m blessed and lucky that I have a dh who is an introvert, and young adult children with jobs and lives of their own, and a job that I can telework forever. But nothing is as I planned. My daughter is in health care and regularly exposed to Covid positive patients, so I haven’t seen her in person since March. My son is living with us, but will move out soon so he can live his life. My knitting groups, and book club, and yoga classes are meeting without me. And I’m home, working, reading, knitting, and doing yoga by myself. It’s a very small world.

          1. I can only hope that we can still take the steps needed to achieve the kind of pandemic suppression that other countries have achieved. Meanwhile the local universities are currently welcoming students back to campus in my state that’s already “trending poorly” with “uncontrolled spread.” It really feels like there’s no end in sight.

    3. It depends on how you define extreme, I think, but there are definitely multiple people who post here who have everything delivered, don’t go into stores (even masked) and haven’t socialized outside their household in months, and those posters at least haven’t mentioned being high risk.

       1. Yeah – but I’d also say…they post here. I really don’t think they’re representative of the majority of other posters who are behaving responsibly but are not as extreme – it’s just…if you say you went to dinner outdoors at a restaurant that’s taking precautions with friends…you get told you’re killing Grandma, so it’s just not worth talking about here. It makes me really sad, actually – I feel like I can’t ask for advice about dates that weren’t extremely socially distanced (like walking outdoors with coffee…), or post about the things I would normally because there’s a small subset of posters who will tell me I’m a murderer for following my state’s restrictions, when we’ve had very few cases and are trending downward.

          1. Yeah. There’s not really any point in talking about how I’m trying to balance my personal medical needs (I have life-threatening mental issues, diagnosed by an actual MD, which improve drastically when I get alone time and outdoors exercise) with pandemic precautions here. It’s all going to be treated like I stabbed someone’s grandmother.

             (My eventual conclusion was that the county health officer is paid to know this stuff, I’m not, and I should follow the restrictions she sets. Which I realize is a controversial take, but it’s the best I have.)

             1. I don’t know anyone who isn’t still being encouraged to get outdoors exercise alone.

    4. Not always. I know a couple in their early thirties without any risk factors who literally haven’t gone on a walk outside their apartment since March. They refuse to hang out in parks or exercise outdoors. Peleton is their only workout.

       1. No one knows my mid-30s husband’s risk factors because we haven’t told anyone. I am sure people think we are nuts, but we’re following medical advice. The reason we don’t exercise outdoors is simply allergies.

       2. Yeah, you’re not entitled to know their reasons … it’s not like they’re going to hand you their medical records so you can personally validate (or invalidate) their decisions.

          1. Well. My husband and the husband of the couple have been best friends since college, and have always discussed their personal medical issues with each other, so I think if there were a high risk factor there, we’d probably know about it. Knowing them as long as we have, it’s much more likely that they’re just very risk-adverse and also quite introverted. My point is simply that there are almost certainly people who are *not* high risk who are also taking extreme preventative measures.

             1. That doesn’t sound unreasonably “extreme,” but more like a personal preference given given the circumstances (the pandemic).

             2. I think not going on walks outside for what will probably be 18 months is unreasonably extreme.

       3. That’s beyond ridiculous. Even during lockdown here, people were encouraged to go outside and walk for their mental health.

14. This will be my first year (potentially) participating in the Nordstrom Anniversary Sale. I don’t have their credit card, so I won’t get to shop early. I’m curious – how quickly do things usually sell out? Will the majority of the things on my wish list likely be sold out before the sale opens to everyone? I have my hopes on a Barefoot Dreams cardigan in size small and a number of beauty items.

    Also, just a warning – I spent a good couple hours combing through the sale preview and putting things on my wish list. After I finished, I realized that it didn’t save ANY of them! My wish list that I had named after the sale didn’t exist in my profile anymore. I had to do the whole thing all over again. So make sure your wish list adds are actually working as you go along!

    1. Ugh, it’s so overblown at this point. There’s like 2 weeks of “influencer” only shopping now and I’m pretty sure that even though I have the N credit card, but the time I shop everything I want will be gone. I’m not saying don’t do it, but I’m also saying don’t get your heart set on actually getting half the stuff you might want.

    2. IME, if you don’t have a card you have very little chance of scoring anything good. If you keep checking as the sale goes on, sometimes you can grab an item that has been returned, but that’s usually about it.

       1. I’ve never had a card, but this is what I do. I’ve actually had pretty good success getting most things eventually, but it takes some waiting and refreshing pages.

          This year’s sale selections are disappointing to me. I feel like a lot of the items are either their usual offerings every year (where items will eventually go on sale again anyway) or just really boring.

          1. I think size factors in. Popular sizes (7/7.5/8 shoes, XS and S clothes) are less likely to be available.

    3. Based on the last 3 years the higher-profile stuff like discounted designer denim, purses, etc will likely be really picked over by the time regular access begins… but, this year with many people not having anywhere to really go, perhaps stock will last longer than in prior years. I browsed the preview and another thing that may help is that a lot of the items are the same or very similar to prior years’ offerings – so, for example, you won’t find me fighting you for the AG jeans I got 2 years ago.

       Beauty is hit or miss what goes quickly. One year the Smashbox primer sold out before I could get my hands on it… the next year it hung around the entire sale.

       I find the sale generally a bit overhyped. Some of the pieces are designed specifically for the sale (looking at you in particular, house brands like Zella) and are not as high quality as the “regular” merchandise. Others will likely be on sale for the same or better discounts later in the season. So, I prioritize relatively boring stuff, replacing my fave bra and undies, etc.

    4. the sale was great back in 2000 when I used to go in-person for back to school shopping with my mom now it is an influencer inspired shopping mania

    5. I got a Barefoot Dreams cardigan last year despite having zero status at Nordstrom and being in the last group to shop. But I wonder if there will be a greater demand for comfy loungewear this year since no one’s going anywhere. Perhaps they’ve adjusted their inventory with that in mind!

    6. It seems kind of like Prime Day to me. The prices make it seem like such a great sale! But the products themselves are mostly meh.

    7. I find the best deals are often the beauty deals, where they put a set together and the overall price is about half of what you’d pay if you bought them separately. Of course, it’s only a deal if you would otherwise have bought the items at full price, but for me, that is true.

       I usually refresh my makeup at the sale, but probably not this year as I haven’t worked in an office since March.

       I’ve been pretty meh on the clothing for the last few years. They used to put nicer stuff on sale. Now it’s a bunch of stuff they make just for the anniversary sale and artificially mark down.

15. What a STUNNING top!

16. Need some perspective on mother in law issues. My MIL was a single mom and is very needy and bad with boundaries. She lives 5 hours from us and a cross country flight from my BIL so the distance makes it easy to ignore some things but there are others that relate to my daughter that are just giving me little pits in my stomach as something that needs to be dealt with.

    DH’s relationship w his mom is a work in progress – Sometimes he feels like he has to cater to her and there’s anxiety about “not doing enough” when objectively he’s doing a lot for her and other times he’ll take a hard line that she’s an adult responsible for her own happiness. She puts a lot of weird pressure on him to prove his love: like the most recent example – she’ll bring massive quantities of his favorite homemade desserts when she visits and get visibly offended if he doesn’t have some one night even when he’s vocally making an effort to eat well.

    My daughter is 4 and I’ve noticed with some of MILs gift giving, there’s this way of creating some sort of obligation or pressure that’s starting to make me uncomfortable. Again silly small examples, but she gave her a pillow for her birthday with the commentary that she can give it a hug as “a way of saying goodnight to grandma every night even when they’re not together.” MIL treats her three dogs like children and my daughter loves dogs (we also have one) but MIL gave daughter a large framed photo of MIL’s three dogs “so she can hang it in her room.” MIL just gave her a nightlight of MIL’s favorite animal and MIL “has the same one, so you can fall asleep and not be scared because I’m looking at the same thing.” I swear I’m not making this up, and daughter isn’t afraid of the dark and goes to bed every night easily in total darkness! It goes on and on, and it isn’t just birthday/Christmas which would be easier to ignore. there’s something every time we see MIL and she’ll mail things too (we started mailing cards and art during covid). She also keeps track of things – like where’s this particular item I gave you for your birthday last year? It isn’t sitting on your dresser anymore.

    It’s just becoming so strange to me, every gift has to come with some sort of needy string attached and while part of me wants to be generous and interpret it as MIL wanting reassurance that she’s important to us (she is! We see her every 6-8 weeks and talk to her 3-4 times per week!) the other part of me feels like stop dumping your emotional baggage at my toddlers feet! Why can’t she just give a straightforward uncomplicated gift like I thought this 4 year old would love glitter pens because she loves glitter – use them up, throw them away, done. Instead it’s like keep this thing forever and THINK OF ME EVERYTIME YOU SEE IT.

    I think part of why this is rubbing me the wrong way is that I don’t want me daughter to feel like she has to cater to other people’s feelings like this! You can decorate your bedroom however you want, you don’t have to have a framed photo of someone else’s pet just because they gave it to you! DH definitely struggles with some of this stuff with his mom, like I can’t get rid of this sweater that shrunk in the wash because my mom gave it to me and I think it’s insane

    How crazy is this? How would you handle it? Am I just being a grinch?

    1. Yeah, these things don’t other me. Maybe I’m just really accommodating to my parents and in-laws, but they love my children and do give them things to remember them. I highly doubt your MIL is staring at that nightlight every night whispering things about your daughter weirdly in a dark room. She just wants your daughter to know she’s thinking about her. If you don’t want to keep whatever item it is and your daughter doesn’t care, throw it away or put it away. It’s that easy. If she asks, it broke.

       1. +1 These don’t seem like that big of a deal to me. She loves her granddaughter and wants her to know that grandma loves her.

          1. agree, not that big a deal…..I would only be concerned if your child feels uncomfortable or expresses concern…..I think this is actually better than the grandparents that couldn’t be bothered with or show little to no interest in their grandchildren

          2. Disagree, it’s pressure and unfair to the kid. It is a pattern, and it bothers her mom. if it continues, it will hit a point where the kid is feeling it, (probably a bit young now) but it’s worth figuring out how to address. shoutout to justnoMIL subreddit – check pinned posts, for how this is lowkey to others (even in this thread) but something that it’s a good idea to protect your child from.

             1. I hate that subreddit and can’t believe you mentioned it. The people who post there are often making drama out of tiny little things and then calling the MIL toxic. It’s nuts.

       2. +1

          My grandmother who was very well adjusted and not needy definitely would say things like this. I saw her like 3x a week growing up, partially because they helped with childcare, partially because my family is close knit.

    2. Honestly, you sound like the one who needs therapy. I don’t want to mean but you sound like you have major control issues. I can’t imagine inserting myself like this into the relationship between my children and their grandmother. These are pretty benign.

       1. I don’t think OP needs therapy for this. Sounds like MIL might need some, but that probably is well out of OP’s control.

       2. Ok that’s helpful perspective! I’m not trying to insert myself, and it was easier to deal with when we were dealing with more stereotypical infant gifts that can be heirloom type of things. It was much more natural for it to be a treasured keepsake forever when it was a silver monogrammed cup or something like that and it was much more about our reactions to the gift than a child’s. It’s harder when it’s a 4 year old with opinions of her own and with taste that skews toward baby dolls, unicorns, and glitter and she’s opening a birthday present that’s a framed photo of someone else’s pets. Kid is somewhat disinterested and MIL seems dissatisfied with the reaction and with kid’s attachment to past stuff. Like we just dealt with “where’s the sea glass we collected on the beach?” When daughter used it on an art project that she’s long since moved on from and lost track of and MIL’s reaction is to tell her that she should be more careful with special things.

          I’ve watched my husband try to work through this dynamic in therapy himself as an adult, so I am probably oversensitive to it. Truly – the ability for him to not feel like he needs to personally eat an entire pie over the course of a 4 day visit, that it’s Ok to turn down dessert one night if you don’t want it and not cave in the face of MILs irritation / I made it just for you / I thought key lime pie was your favorite without being wracked with guilt is relatively new.

          1. Yeah, I understand. That does sound like a problem. I don’t think I grasped the extent of the issue with your original post. I’m sorry.

          2. OK, what you’re describing here would bother me, too. I have no good suggestions on what to do about it — this your MIL’s problem, not yours or your daughter’s. It does come across as very manipulative.

          3. I don’t think you’re overreacting. You are not going to change MIL’s behavior, since it sounds like she’s been acting like this for her whole life. I would focus on your daughter, and keeping her from feeling the way your husband feels. Teach her to be polite and say thank you for gifts. Then teach her it’s OK to use stuff she likes, donate/throw out what she doesn’t like, use materials for art projects, etc. Model appropriate responses to your MIL–“She made a beautiful art project with those shells! She had so much fun!” “She outgrew that, and we passed it on to another child who will love it.” “She used the frame for these photos she took in the backyard! Aren’t they cool?” Be kind, but don’t take on the responsibility of managing your MIL’s reactions to this information. If your MIL criticizes your daughter, feel free to stand up for her. (A simple, “Daughter is responsible with her belongings,” then changing the subject, should be sufficient.)

    3. My mother is kind of like this. It’s her way of dealing with the “guilt” of living far away from us/ her grandkids. She’s terrified that the kids will forget her or something. It does get overwhelming to have her keep track of every single thing and ask about it years later. “Did the kids like that plastic snow globe I made them two Christmases ago? I was going to send a new picture for you to update it.”

       The key is to figure out how to keep YOURSELF from feeling guilty, and then come to peace with that plan. Early on, I told her we have too much stuff and she shouldn’t give us (esp the kids) something she really cares about. The kids are too young, our life is too chaotic, our puppy was chewing things up, etc. So now I don’t feel guilty saying something like “Yes they liked it for a while but once they outgrew it we threw it away. Thanks for thinking of us!” I tried to do regular facetimes with the kids, to see if that would help with her fears/ guilt/ whatever but it didn’t make much of an impact in the gifts. I still try to do regular facetimes, and we mail pictures and papers fairly often, and then I don’t feel bad getting rid of all the rest.

    4. I dont have kids, but I do have a mother in law who acts similarly, with gifts for us and for my husband’s siblings and his nephews/nieces. She got me a cake stand for my birthday (from Estelle colored glass, it’s gorgeous) but keeps saying that this will be a way for her to be with us on special occasions, even after she’s gone (she’s barely 70 and will be around for a while). She also overdoes it on gifts to my young nephews, especially in front of other relatives – I think she’s trying to prove that she ‘loves them more’
       It’s exhausting and I dont have an answer for you- we’re navigating this with therapy and boundaries, but it’s really hard.

    5. My response is strongly colored by the thought that girls are too often taught how to put themselves last and that’s also a filter through which I read your question. Reading your description, grandma definitely sounded needy to me. I also get your impulse to want to equip your daughter to set healthy boundaries and not get into a pattern of obligation like you observe your husband to be in. Luckily, kids are super-selfish creatures. I’d take my cue from your daughter and see if she expresses a desire to get rid of any gift, or reject any of grandmas claims on her. You can explain to her how to set her boundaries while still being polite and letting grandma know that she is loved. If grandma is reallllly needy, you will also teach your kid how to treat the other person with kindness, even though that does not guarantee that the other person responds in a certain (rational way)

    6. My MIL did stuff like this constantly as well. She was a hoarder and used guilt to try to force hoarding on us as well. We were never allowed to throw out her stupid trinkets, and she constantly assigned desperate emotion to meaningless garbage. Any option other than living under mountains of crap meant I was a cold, unfeeling b1tch.

       I don’t have a solution. She literally only stopped because she died. She messed up the rest of her children so bad that we can’t have a yard sale, because my SIL would find out and come take everything while screaming at me for being a heartless monster.

    7. I agree that this is manipulative behavior. The sea glass example? Like is your MIL secretly Voldemort and embedding pieces of herself in her gifts??

       I have no advice but think you are right to be concerned.

       1. +1 This would drive me insane and knowing my codependent MIL, this would lead to nothing good and only resentment and probably a fight if she realized DD didn’t keep/use/want said nightlight or pillow or whatever. No advice either, but I’m very surprised others are dismissive of it.

    8. I can understand the concern. You see how much this stuff has affected DH and you don’t want your daughter to develop the same issues. Remember that your daughter sees grandma less than once a month. She’s an important person, sure, but it’s not someone DD sees daily – my advice would be different if it were. Under the circumstances, the best thing you can do is to support daughter in establishIng healthy boundaries if it looks like she needs help doing that. At this point, I highly doubt grandma’s “strings” on the gifts are even getting through to your kid. If kid starts to show anxiety – I have to hug the pillow every night or grandma will be mad! – then address it then. I don’t think you need to borrow trouble about this.

       1. +1 Address it in the moment of the gift with your daughter and it’ll be fine. “Oh, this is so nice of Grandma to give you a matching light, where would you like to put it?” Just guide your daughter, she’s more heavily influenced by you that she will be by grandma. Your husband could use some tools to help deal with his mother, maybe therapy or some books. You’re just sensitive to it because of MIL’s effects on your husband.

    9. I agree that what she is doing is a problem. I doubt this will work but can you (ideally your husband) say something to her like, “Hermione [your daughter] is old enough now that she has her own ideas about what she wants to keep in her room and what she wants to do with her possessions. It’s important to us to honor that because it is a reflection of who she is and it teaches her valuable lessons – if she looses something and regrets it, she’s going to be more careful in the future. We know that you love her so much more than can be represented in a gift, and hope you will not interpret any of her decisions as a lack of love and respect.” And then you could follow up with specific boundaries like, “it is okay for Hermione to decide she doesn’t want to keep gifts; please don’t try to make her feel guilty about that.” I’m not sure I could really do that boundary part though.

    10. My mom does this to my siblings’ children and I wish I had advice, but we don’t know how to deal with it. She’s always had strings attached to everything, and it’s gotten weird now that she has grandchildren. I have a <1 yo nephew and niece and my mom lives a plane ride away from both of them. My nephew spent some time in the hospital when he was born, so my mom was only able to hold him sparingly when she went to visit. She came to visit a few months later and was offended that nephew cried when she held him, insisting that it's because he didn't remember her. Um, no, he's 3 months old and he literally only wants to be held by his own mother. She wanted to Facetime every night at bedtime to read him a story so that he'd know her voice. My sister gave her a recordable book but mom insists that it needs to be live on Facetime. She sent him a pack of feathers for some random holiday and wanted my sister to do a photoshoot of him playing in the feathers to send to her. There's no connection to feathers or something, she just… decided this is something that needs to happen so that she and nephew are somehow connected. It's just weird. One year for Christmas, she gifted all three of us monthly "gifts" that we were supposed to take pictures and videos of doing to send to her. One of the "gifts" was a puzzle that we had to put together on our wedding anniversary date, make a video, send it to her that we were doing the puzzle to celebrate so that she could remember the joy she felt on our wedding day. It sounds benign, but it's not. Every gift is about her, with extremely detailed instructions and generally forced emotional intimacy that's just inappropriate to force on grown adults and their spouses. Our tactic is just to opt out and hope she doesn't bring it up, or say that we must have misplaced it when she mentions it. And just deal with her throwing a tantrum about it/limit contact and keep things surface-level when we talk.

        1. This is over-the-top crazy. OMG.

           1. Sometimes we wonder if we’re just mean or heartless to think these demands are ridiculous, so it’s validating to hear from an internet stranger that just a few examples sound so nuts.

              1. Here’s another round of validation. This is nuts.

        2. Demanding someone do a chore on their anniversary is NOT benign.
           I even asked my mom to stop sending us photo frame Christmas ornaments every year bc they were too much for me (finding one of the few photos from the year we are looking and smiling that makes sense in the landscape vs portrait design, figuring out how to print it to fit in this obscure oval shape without cutting someone off, realizing we are out of expensive printer ink after doing all this bc we never print other stuff and now I need to wait for the printer ink…).
           Luckily my mom was the type that understood.

    11. I think you’re just being a grinch. Trying to sabotage your husband’s healthy eating is one thing, but the gifts you’ve named are not a sign of a horrible, controlling MIL. It sounds like she wants to give sentimental gifts rather than glitter pens.

        This is not the hill to die on. Honestly, you kind of sound like the controlling one here.

    12. This doesn’t answer your question but it reminded me of something. My sister had a looney tunes MIL, who way overestimated the importance of weird things to her grandkids, kind of like you’re describing. When my niece got married 10 years ago, her grandma gave her a large (wall sized, not table top size) framed photo of herself as a wedding gift.

        This happened at a day-after brunch for the couple in front of all the family and wedding party. I burst out laughing because I honestly thought it was a joke – and a good one! – and that the real present was behind the photo or something. Unbelievable.

        Same grandma wrote that kid out of her will a couple years later over some perceived slight regarding time with great-grandchild. So yeah, it could be a pattern and if so the sooner you all are on the same team the better.

    13. My inlaws are like this and have been forever. I’ve gotten to the point where I feel like almost every gift my in-laws send or bring by is an irritating obligation. Does as 12yo girl want a secondhand hardback copy of Rudyard Kipling? An oversized, college-level art history book? Does a 9yo boy want a bag of polyester stuffing and random ribbons because he was working on a sewing project once, 18months ago? Some of the stuff is clearly regifted, unsafe, and/or stale (if you ever wonder who on earth would buy old cookies at Ross, it’s my MIL). We live in a small house with limited storage and a single bathroom. Oh, and it’s hard to throw anything away because your son lives here and will tell me there is “lots of use” in that bulky cookie tin or whatever I’m trying to toss or donate.

        I just keep what i want to keep (I do consult with the kids mostly), toss the obviously broken or stale stuff, and don’t put up anything I don’t want hanging up. I was also pretty obviously pissed when they decided to hang a mirror in my daughter’s room without asking me or my spouse (a mirror they bought). While she’s mostly stopped questioning (because I’m a heartless career b*tch and she’s basically terrified of me for standing up to her), my MIL gets the following responses if she asks where stuff is,”Hmmm, it’s around here somewhere,” or “We don’t have room to hang that up.” Just don’t feel guilty. There’s no need.

17. I really want to get better at running. Like…eventually go for long runs through Rock Creek Park that trail that goes on the back side of the National monuments along the Anacostia. However…I’m. Terrible. At. Running. It’s not a boredom thing, I love talking long walks to catch up on podcasts. Any tips to work myself up to being the runner I want to be? Does the couch to 5k program work? Thanks!

    1. The thing about running is that the only way to get better at it is to do it. The couch to 5K programs work fine. Another method is the “Galloway method” (coined by runner Jeff Galloway) where you run for a set time (like 2 minutes) then walk for a set time (like 1 minute) for a prescribed amount of time and slowly up the running and down the walking until you’re running consistently.

       1. How is the Galloway method different from Cto5K? These sound like the same approach to me.

          1. My experience is that C to 5k is distinctly designed to carry somebody to the goal of a 5k, while the general “Galloway method” is even used for people running marathons. It’s a conceptual method (with associated training plans) versus a defined program.

             And yeah, they sound similar because basically the way you get better at running is… you do it! If you can’t run a mile, you run for a while then walk. Then run and then walk. Then gradually run more and walk less. I would say the fact that the two (both very popular) programs have the same core theme is support that it works.

          2. Yeah, that’s the exact same method as C25K.

          3. C25K and the Galloway approach start similarly, but Galloway keeps walk breaks in always, even during races, whereas the idea of C25K is to eventually eliminate the walking entirely.

             As an overweight out of shape person, I found most of the C25K plans way too aggressive to start out with. If you find the same, change the ratios so that you’re running less and walking more and slowly slowly work your way up.

             I like the Zombies, Run 5K app if you want audio cues; I find the little bit of story each time keeps me engaged.

    2. I have been running for about 6 years now, but years ago I did the C to 5K with a friend and I think it’s a really great way to ease in and get started without doing too much, too fast.

       I can try to be of more help if you can give more details about what you think makes you terrible at it beacuse IMO, if you are out there doing it at all, you’re a runner and you’re doing great!

       1. This. The idea is not that you have to get good at it, but you are out there doing it and that’s great! My suggestion is that you run and walk intervals…as much or as little as you want. Run for a bit, walk for a bit, repeat. Week by week you will notice that you are running more and its getting easier. PP is right….the only way to get better at it is to do it…and little by little is better than taking on too much and getting injured. Enjoy….

       2. I can’t speak for the OP, but I have always been terrible at running. I haven’t run a mile since I was required to do it in high school, and it took 13 minutes if I recall. I can run maybe 1/4 mile now (35 years later), I get winded in a way that’s probably normal, my feet hurt, etc. I would rather walk and I can walk 4 miles easily at a reasonably brisk pace, without stopping, including uphill stretches etc. I can exercise aerobically on a recumbent cycle. Running is almost impossible for me.

          1. Same. I have some very mild connective tissue disease symptoms that I even didn’t realize were symptoms at all until a doctor pointed it out. Maybe it’s more of a genetic variation. I’m great at walking though!

    3. I started and stopped a Couch to 5K app around 6-7 times before finally following through to completion, and as a former non-runner, I can comfortably run a 5k under 34 minutes which to me (not comparing more/less athletic people) feels great. Highly recommend it!

    4. Can you run a 5k today if you had to? If so, I’d look for a “moderate” 5k program that doesn’t have walking incorporated, but instead changes the pace you run at. If you could run a mile or less, I think couch to 5k would be great. When I started running, I would focus on my breathing, in through the nose out through the mouth. I also found a program that based training off of length of time running vs distance.

    5. I love the Couch to 5k program and have done it countless times over the past 8 years or so. You start slow – one minute run, run minute walk. The first time I did it I went from not being able to run at all in the beginning of the program to finishing a 5k in 32 minutes eight weeks later.

       I’m not fast by any stretch of the imagination. Yet, I’m on Week 7 right now and have my first 25 minute run scheduled for tomorrow.

       The reason I’ve done it so many times is because I’m a fair-weather runner and prefer to run outside so usually run from April – November. I’d be able to increase my distance and speed if I kept it up throughout the year.

    6. What do you mean, “Terrible at running?” You’re going to have to tell us more.
       If you’re talking about endurance, slow down! Keep your pace such that you can carry on a conversation. Add distance slowly.
       If you want to improve speed, get your base level of endurance first, then start working in some intervals. Never increase speed and distance at the same time. That is the recipe for injury.
       If you’re talking about pain, get any known orthopedic or other physical issues addressed. Get fitted for shoes by someone who knows what they’re doing.
       If you’re talking about gut issues, play around a bit with what you eat pre-run and even the night before. If all else fails, plan your runs for neighborhoods with lots of construction going on (so you always have access to a port-o-let).
       If you’re talking about looking like you’re about to die while you’re running, I got nothing. That’s just what some of us look like even if we’re having a grand old time.

    7. What exactly do you struggle with with running? Is it that you’re winded? Or that your legs burn too much? Or something else? If it’s that your cardio needs work, I would suggest building up your cardiovascular endurance with not just running, but also swimming and maybe some HIIT. That way you can increase your endurance without overdoing it with running too much too soon.

    8. I’m in a similar boat. It seems to take me forever to be able to run a mile nonstop, even at a slow pace (10-12 min miles) and if I miss a week, it’s back to square one. I’ve never run more than a 5K, even at my fittest, and running has never felt “easy.” I have a friend who was sick for more than two weeks and was able to come back running at the same pace and I’m just like HOW?

    9. I haven’t tried it myself but everyone I know who’s done couch to 5k raves about it.
       I barely run now, but at one point I’d worked up to regularly doing ~5 miles. Two things that helped were great shoes – if you haven’t been to a specialty running store, get there now – and tracking my progress.

    10. Check out Run Bet, it’s an app. You join a “game” and pay $30 or $40 to join. They have “games” for all types of runners – beginners to running 10 miles. They even have one for walking (I think it’s called walk bet). The games are usually 4 or 6 weeks and you have to run at least X times a week. If at the end of the “game” you’ve completed all of the runs you get your $30 or $40 back, plus you share in the pot of everyone who didn’t complete the “game.” Now you won’t rich off of this, but I usually earn about $5 a game (plus my original $30 or $40 fee). What I’ve found is that it keeps me motivated b/c I don’t want to lose my initial $30 or $40 fee). It’s really kept me motivated. Maybe if you’re consistent with running (by using this app) you’ll get better at it? Just a thought….

    11. “The thing about running is that the only way to get better at it is to do it.”
        I used to believe this. And yes, you do have to run (a lot) to get better. But I have discovered that the best way to get better at running is to build up your leg and core strength through resistance/weight training. I am a natural runner. I ran competitively from age 9, when a gym teacher saw that I had talent, through my early 20s. I stopped almost completely for a decade. When I tried to go back, it was super hard. Then I went to a boot camp and built up strength doing no running at all. When I then went to run again, it was night and day and I deeply regret that no one told me this when I was young and running competitively, Start doing squats today.

        1. I mean yes, but also no. “But I have discovered that the best way to get better at running is to build up your leg and core strength through resistance/weight training.”

           To a never-runner, this sounds so intimidating. I was a never runner that eventually tackled half marathons. For me, it was 100% mental. I just had this vision that running meant running fast. So I’d go out probably attempting like 8-9 min miles (which is still very fast for me!) and just give up because I thought it sucked so much. When I finally went for a jog with someone who held me to a 12:00 min pace my eyes were suddenly wide open to the fact that ‘running’ takes many forms. I’m the complete opposite of a ‘natural runner’ so I sympathize with OP from start to finish. Had someone told me to tackle core and strength exercises first, I simply wouldn’t have bothered.

           I think C25K is great for getting started. It teaches you how to work smarter and not harder. I think after tackling something like that, OP, you’ll decide if it’s something you might enjoy long term, and then consider strengthening in other ways for a better overall experience/endurance.

    12. You have to practice sucking. I’m not a great runner even with practice, so I would get impatient at my terrible running skills and quit. I had to realize that for me, running = out of breath and slow rather than floating around like a serene gazelle. I had to slow down and jog and walk and pace myself. I found the Zombies Run app to be a fun way to run.

    13. I hate running and really have only been doing it lately since the pandemic has made my main exercise options unavailable. The number one thing that has helped me is to slow WAY down. I was trying to run way too fast and so I couldn’t run very far or for very long.

        1. Not OP but another person who is bad at running. I try to go as slow as I can but that just ends up frustrating me even more. Why exert 10x the amount of effort just to go barely any faster than walking? If I can’t run fast, I don’t want to run at all! (Yes, I understand I have to build up to that point but the journey is too long for someone as impatient as me.)

    14. I’m an intermittent and consistently slow runner that’s taken to running more during this time. I’ve been really loving the peloton app outdoor running tracks – I like the guided intervals, the music, and the peppy coaching. I definitely push myself more and feel a sense of accomplishment when I’m done versus just plodding around my neighbor. YMMV of course.

    15. 1) you likely need to run much slower or do a combination of run/walk when you are starting out.
        2) I live in DC too and it feels horrible for anyone to run right now, even experienced runners, due to the heat. My husband ran 8 marathons last year and the other day struggled to get through 4 miles.
        3) You don’t need to go crazy buying stuff but a better bra and socks will likely help.

18. Experience with Loll outdoor furniture, specifically a dining set for six? I read about the brand on this site, and I’d love to hear feedback (comfort, durability, look).

19. Would you say anything?

    A childhood friend of mine, who used to be a teacher, made this long post on Facebook this morning about how every teacher dreads getting “the call” about the death of a student. It’s something they never forget, etc. Then, of course, she related it to covid and how traumatized teachers are going to be when students inevitably (her word, not mine) die because schools are open. She is throwing a ton of shade at parents who, in her words, are pressuring schools to open and restart activities.

    Why is this making me bristle so much? (I don’t even know what she’s decided to do for her kids’ education this fall, but I’m hazarding a guess that she’s homeschooling.) Parents have an impossible decision here, and nothing feels right. And now I’m supposed to worry about teachers’ feelings about death, in addition to their health and my kids’ health and everything else I’m stewing about? I am sending my kids back to school. No, I don’t feel great about it, but DH & I have looked at this from every angle and have decided that this is what we’re doing for now (key words, right there). IDK, her whole screed feels emotionally manipulative.

    This friend and I used to be close but I have put distance between us after I’d had enough of her not-very-subtle shaming of working moms, when she knew full well that’s what I am. So it’s very possible that I’m overreacting from that place, but part of me still wants to tell her to cut it out with the guilt trip. Parents have legitimate reasons to be worried about their children’s education if schools are closed.

    1. Wow stop it. You get to have feelings. So does she. Neither of you are wrong. Obviously no don’t say anything to her. You are an adult. If you don’t like someone’s Facebook posts block, unfriend, or mute and move on.

       1. “Mute for 30 days” is your friend here.

    2. I could see being annoyed by the post, but honestly, teachers do not deserve the hate they’re getting right now. They get paid a pittance for the work they do and spend their own money on pencils and now we’re asking them to teach the kids of parents who have been treating summer 2020 like travel and meet-ups are A-OK as long as they’re a few feet apart? It was utterly predictable that refusing to shut down for real was going to jeopardize the schools reopening. It sucks and I think it’s wrong, but it’s absolutely, 100% not teachers’ fault and I do not blame them at all for being incredibly worried about the risks of reopening when there are basically no plans to actually do it safely. Save the ire for our national “leadership.”

       1. State and local education leadership is where the leadership should have been and wasn’t. Leaving us just hearing the whining of select teachers who don’t want to go back until it will be 1000% percent safe (i.e., never). Which leadership seems to be caving to and going on-line at the last minute, which will be a cluster in a couple of weeks. A lot of teachers were ready to try and wanted to try but have been hamstrung. We are hearing from the extreme end. And no admins are stepping up to counter with “we were asleep at the wheel” or “our plan was that there would be no more virus in the fall / there would be a vaccine”. Y’all: hope is not a strategy.

          1. That’s offensive and absurd to say that teachers are waiting for it to be “1000% safe.” They’re hoping for like, 60% safe and no one can even make a good-faith effort for that. Just plan for no school because there will be a Georgia camp scenario in the first week or two.

             1. I agree. Would you want to do it? Teach a class of 15-30 kindergarteners and try to keep them social distanced from each other and in their masks at all time, with no idea of how their household is handling COVID precautions? Go ahead then. But I don’t blame the teachers who think that is a disaster waiting to happen.

       2. Forget pencils, I just spent time and several hundred dollars helping my mom buy and build plexiglass dividers and air purifiers for her classroom in a state where teachers basically make basically nothing and are expected to provide everything.

          1. ETA: my diabetic, 60yo mother

    3. I am just tuning out the keyboard warriors. So much noise.

       1. What? How on earth is an actual teacher with valid concerns a “keyboard warrior”?

          1. The OP said she used to be a teacher. She was not posting about her actual concerns. She is not currently a teacher so has no way of knowing what teachers are or are not actually being asked to do.

    4. Your friend is right and you are wrong. School districts are spending their time and resources drafting form letters to notify families of the deaths of teachers and classmates, instead of figuring out how to keep students and teachers safe. It is inevitable that students and teachers will die, and anyone who thinks any substantive teaching is going to happen with in-person schooling is living in a fantasy world.

       1. Hahaha — this is not happening, I can assure you. Nothing is happening. It is so frustrating. Schools’ planning was just hoping it would be over soon; they put all their eggs in that basket; and their bet didn’t pay off. There was no planning at all.

          1. OP here. In the case of our school district, I do feel like they’ve done a decent job planning, given the circumstances. I don’t think anyone was naive to hope it would all blow over. Is it 100% safe? No, of course not, but I do feel like a good-faith effort has been made.

             1. *naive enough

       2. But substantive teaching is more likely to occur in person than virtually for the majority of kids.

       3. No, Anon at 11:06 a.m., YOU are wrong. The post as described by OP grated me too. But I agree with some of the other posters that she should just mute that person or even take a FB break. Not much, if any, healthy dialogue going on there, and what OP describes is a prime example of that.

       4. Tonight my school district is having plans to discuss reopening… over Zoom.

          There is a “rally of concerned parents” who want a FULL reopening with ALL FALL ACTIVITIES happening … outside. Socially distanced.

          I don’t know, I think the board and these parents should go sit in a classroom for 8 hours and hash it out. I’m sure with groups of 12 people in a small, poorly ventilated room for 8 hours with masks on, they can get it figured out.

    5. I wouldn’t do anything. She’s not posting that AT you. A lot of people are stressed and emotional right now and handlign it in any number of ways. Just mute her or however it works on FB and move on.

       1. +1

       2. +1

    6. Yeah, it would make me bristle too. As of July 23, a total of 76 children in the US had died of covid. That’s from the American Academy of Pediatrics’ website. Keeping kids out of school will disproportionately harm disadvantaged children, and women. Don’t feel guilty about sending your kids back to school. Frankly it’s irresponsible for your friend to be telling her feed that they’re going to have loads of dead children. It’s fear mongering and really doesn’t help people make informed decisions.

       1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-covid-19-outbreak-among-children-at-a-georgia-summer-camp-is-a-warning/2020/08/02/29209ffe-d353-11ea-8d32-1ebf4e9d8e0d_story.html

          School is incredibly important, but since we prioritized bars, we can’t open them safely now that there is more evidence about kids transmitting the virus as effectively as adults. If schools reopen, it’s almost certain most will shut down again quickly, at least in the states with moderate or worse outbreaks.

       2. Isn’t is possible that the amount of kids that died is so low is because schools got cancelled in March and kids have been largely kept at home? And maybe there won’t be a lot of kids that die when schools do reopen, but that’s still terrible, and they will still be carriers and take it home and give it to their parents and grandparents who are much more likely to die. And teachers and staff are going to be extremely at risk.

          Kids need education, parents (especially moms working from home) need to get the kids out of the house. There is no good solution.

          1. Yes to your first paragraph. That is why deaths are so low among kids (given the mounting evidence of their high transmission rates).

             1. Except plenty of countries haven’t had schools closed and the numbers still hold

       3. Yeah, but these kids haven’t been in school or camp settings. Look at the rapid-fire spread in Georgia, and the issues that are showing up in kids.

    7. But she’s not wrong – there will be some dead children. It’s true that every teacher dreads getting the call, and its true they never forget it. I have seen this many times with my own mother who was a teacher for 40 years and sadly experienced many tragic situations with her students. Sure, it’s rare, and no one wants to think it will happen to their child which is why you’re upset about reading her post, but some kids are going to die. Any veteran teacher right now is worried about this and your friend isn’t wrong to express her worries.

       You have to remember the teacher’s role in any tragedy in the classroom – not only are they experiencing their own grief when a student dies, they also are likely figuring out how best to support the family, as well as how to help the dozens of other students looking to them for comfort. Most teachers hope and pray that they are only rarely in this situation, and it is because of a random thing, like a car accident or a childhood cancer, which nothing could have prevented. To look at the current situation where a deadly disease is spreading, much of this tragedy could have been prevented by a strong government response, so much is still so unknown, and statistically we know a certain percentage of people will die, it’s not unreasonable for teachers to be mentally preparing in the rare case they are unlucky enough to experience it.

       1. It’s weird, but no teachers will know my kids. They are each “at” different schools this year. Schools they have never entered, but were signed up to attend in the spring. They have never met their teachers and know only one or two other kids there, that they may or may not “have” classes with.

       2. +1 you can feel however you feel about the basically impossible scenario working parents are in regarding the opening of the school year, but her expressing her concerns is valid as well. Just like you have to figure out how you’re going to manage your workload, make sure your kids are safe and educated, and balance whatever else covid is throwing at you, she has to figure out how to deal with covid in the classroom which will involve dead students and all the related trauma.

          1. She’s not even in the classroom anymore!

    8. A person you’re not at all close with made a facebook post you don’t agree with? No, obviously you do not say anything.

    9. So she’s basically blaming parents for killing their own children, resulting in trauma to teachers like her? I mean, yeah, that’s pretty tone deaf. Nevermind the children that will be traumatized by the illness and death of their classmates. Or the parents who have no choice but to send their kids to school. The teachers’ trauma is really what’s most important here.

       I’m pretty tired of the suffering Olympics. We’re all dealing with shitty options. Let’s try to work together and lobby for our government to take care of the population. The pandemic response is not solely a personal responsibility issue.

       1. Yes, thank you, you articulated this much better than I did. I shouldn’t be surprised by the tone deafness, so I am taking others’ advice and muting her for awhile.

       2. Here’s a more charitable interpretation. There’s been a lot of chatter, including here, that teachers are selfish and lazy and are prioritizing their own interests over the interests of children (and also parents). This post by OP’s acquaintance reminds those people that teachers actually care deeply about the children they teach and are emotionally invested in their students’ health and safety. Obviously we’ve only seen OP’s characterization of the post, so who really knows.

          1. Has anyone here really been calling teachers selfish and lazy?

             1. Go back and read some threads from two or so weeks ago.

       3. The teachers are fighting to avoid inflicting that trauma on anyone. Meanwhile the parents are advocating for it.

          1. Wow this is exactly what’s wrong with these reactions. No one is advocating for trauma. Unbelievable.

             1. Wanting to fully reopen schools and resume extracurricular activities will lead to sickness and death. You can bury your head in the sand but the reality will not change. The only reason it hasn’t happened already is because of how promptly schools closed down in March. Teachers seem to get it, why don’t parents?

             2. They aren’t advocating for trauma, but trauma is 100% what will happen if schools open in-person. If it’s not kids dying, it’s teachers / paraprofessionals / support staff and the students’ parents / grandparents / community members at risk. Imagine being a teacher in a classroom where 2-3 kids lose family members to COVID-19 that they brought home from school.

             3. I don’t see anyone here arguing that we should fully reopen everything with no restrictions, including extracurricular activities.

             4. Oh well if nobody wrote about it on this site today then it must not be happening at all. /s

          2. Yep.

          3. No, no we are not advocating for that. At all.

          4. Yes, parents are definitely looking to inflict trauma on their children. We definitely don’t care about our kids as much as teachers care about our kids. Are you freaking kidding me?

             1. Teachers have to concern themselves with many more kids than the average parent. So yeah I think they care more about the greater good while parents are myopic/selfish about the whole situation.

20. Have you all seen the video posted by Judge Salas about the shooting at her home that killed her son and wounder her husband? I think it was just released today and she gives heartbreaking details. Her grief is palpable. It’s crazy that federal judges (or any judge really) addresses are available online. I work in HR and I often wonder about disgruntled employees who may be out for revenge. It’s really terrifying….
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JPlcbW5aJs

    1. OMG I got a minute in and had to stop. Heartbreaking.

    2. Yes. I watched most of it and teared up watching her manage her own grief to communicate her outrage. The toxic combination of guns and MRA misogyny in this country is pretty horrible.

21. My husband and I are thinking of renting a cabin/house for about a month somewhere in CA to work remotely. What is the best place to look for these type properties?

    1. Are you located in California? If not, I recommend finding a cabin in your own state instead. Our outbreak is getting out of control and the last thing small mountain towns and similar want is more visitors. Most of Tahoe is already pleading with people to stay away, but demand for cabins is skyrocketing.

       1. I don’t think it’s necessary to jump to negative conclusions about every poster. It’s not healthy. If you don’t have any recommendations you don’t have to reply.

          1. My recommendation is to stay away. Sue me.

          2. What? This is useful information from a California resident, and it is you who have a personal problem & should keep quiet.

          3. +1 Seriously.

          4. As opposed to your helpful post? There’s no need to police others.

          5. I think it is perfectly healthy to suggest people who may be COVID carriers stay out of my state (not California) that so far has been handling the pandemic really well. We are only going to get this under control if people stop traveling. I can make exceptions for family emergencies but for your vacation just because you are bored in your house? No. In your own state? Sure.

       2. Original Poster: I am in CA already. I live in the Bay Area. We plan to isolate for 14 days as well to make sure we minimize any impact on the local community.

          1. Also in the Bay Area and Tahoe doesn’t want us, FYI. Perhaps you can find an Airbnb in the North Bay or somewhere that isn’t as slammed with Bay Area refugees.

             1. My specific request if for services/sites that cater to longer term rentals (if they are better than Arbnb and VRBO), not locations that I should consider. In terms of location we are trying to be mindful of impact on the local community (going to find a place that is relatively close to a city so that we won’t have to rely on local hospitals) and we plan to shop for food locally by our home to avoid shopping locally. We have a high risk family member so we have been very careful already.

             2. That is not at all clear from your original post. You asked for “best place,” which could read as “best physical place.” Obviously just look at Airbnb or location-specific rental websites you’ll have to Google for.

          2. Check out Russian River Getaways. We rent a cabin for our August vacation every year – It’s where I am now. I’m sure they have monthlong options. I’ve always found the staff really helpful if you have questions about the properties.

             I’ve found it very easy to continue social distancing on our vacation here. I don’t go to the big Safeway in guerneville, but instead hit the local markets (mike’s truck garden, Duncan’s mills general store) and haven’t had any issues with non-mask-wearing fellow patrons.

             All houses have wi-fi – it’s one of the requirements. Have fun!!

             1. PS I would call myself extremely cautious, regarding the upstream thread about precautions. And I still feel perfectly fine here. It was important to me, for instance, that we go somewhere that we could drive and not have to stop to use the bathroom before we got there. It’s a 2 hour drive from my house in Berkeley.

       3. Literally…to the conversation about “extreme” posters making it difficult to talk about anything….see this lovely example.

          1. It’s always the first reply to every single question and it is getting so tiresome. I can and do scroll by the top level comments that don’t interest me, but when this person is inserting herself into every damn post it gets so annoying.

          2. So what is it you guys are looking for, that when people post on this site for recommendations they only get responses that align with what they clearly want to do? That’s not realistic. No one is under an obligation to be a yes-man to every poster here.

             1. I don’t think anyone is looking for people to align 100% with people asking for recommendations but it feels like some people are just waiting for something to pounce upon. It is as if they have this pent up energy to attack and almost everything that isn’t 100% aligned with their views is bait. To me this changes the mood/ambiance of the site.

             2. No one said to be a yes man. Just assume grown women know what they’re doing, answer the question and asked and if you cannot, keep your snarky irrelevant suggestions to yourself.

             3. OK, but it’s not snarky and irrelevant to point out that it’s best to get a cabin in your own state and that the most popular cabin destination in California is overrun right now. That’s very, very relevant. If you don’t like the advice, why don’t you just ignore it?

             4. No one is obligated to be a dick either but you wouldn’t know it from today’s replies.

             5. It’s about the way you talk to people… if you were going to speak to other people that you know in real life you probably would phrase things a little differently, right? You don’t want to accuse people of doing things they’re not even doing. The poster was in fact looking for somewhere in her home state and it seems like she is being responsible. It’s a lot of fuss to make, intentional or otherwise, over something that isn’t even an issue.

    2. Check out the Russian River and Dillon Beach areas – there’s a lot of vacay rentals up there, might be hard to find ones but worth a look

    3. Why can’t people just stay the F home?

       1. Oh but you’re just a jealous hater who wants to corona better than anyone, right? /sarcasm

          All I can say is that the people endlessly complaining about how teachers are awful for not wanting to reopen schools better not be the same people who won’t stop traveling.

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