Coffee Break: Annika Pointed Toe Flat

222 Comments

1. I just wanna say I would have DIED for these shoes in 1986.

   1. I am to short to wear flats and get away with it. I wish I were 5’8″, b/c if I were, I could get alot more attention w/o wearing 4″ heels, which are very uncomfortable when I dress up. Now, b/c of the pandemic, I am just wearing my Nike Air’s, and all the men know I am short and they like women with longer legs then I have. FOOEY on that b/c they really don’t know what they are missing out on, Dad says, and I agree. My ex didn’t care that I was not 5’8″, b/c he was not that tall either, and he would be intimiadated when I got all dressed up for court and was actually taller then he was!

   2. I was 1 in 1986, but I would totally get the non-blue version of these if I anticipated a need for office shoes any time soon. I have a pair of similar “snake” wedges that I wear a lot in the summer, but I can’t imagine going back to a 3″ heel after this.

      1. Yes — If I could be bullish on anything at the moment, it would be the elegant pointy-toe executive flat for when we finally go back to work. I cannot see heels being more than a special-occasion shoe (and one worn for eating out or events when you’ll mainly be sitting).

      2. I have point toed rothys in a similar color/pattern and wore them a couple times a week in the before-times. Love them.

   3. As a mostly flat wearer, I am a super fan of the print and shape, and would get them in a flash if I had somewhere to wear them!

   4. The Rockport Adalyn flats came in snakeskin some seasons. They were the workhorses of my Before Times wardrobe.

   5. I got a pair of pointy-toe pink/black/white/grey Cole Haan snakeprint flats recently and I’ve been wearing them sem-regularly with skirts/casual dresses when I’m going to the grocery store or running errands. They make me very happy even though they’re a little bit fancy for wearing with a t-shirt dress and baseball cap…

2. Is there anything that would make you feel comfortable attending a wedding in the first half of December? My fiance and I have sent Save the Dates (to slightly more than 200 guests) but have decided to make a final decision by October 1 on whether or not we postpone to 2021. If we do postpone, we’ll elope this year so that we can still be married. Our southern state recently fell out of the “hotspot” lists and we live in a blue city that is taking the virus seriously (at least compared to other southern cities). What (if any) markers of progress would make you feel comfortable attending a large-ish wedding this winter? If a vaccine is made available this fall? If the transmission rates fall to a certain percentage? If the city in which the venue is located drops to a certain number of new cases per day? If rapid-results tests become more accessible and more reliable? 

   Just to make it abundantly clear: my fiance and I know this virus is very real (I work in healthcare in a non-caregiver, now remote, role) and we are social-distancing extensively. The only shower we have had was virtual and no bachelorette/bachelor parties are happening, as we are actually relieved to skip those haha. My groom and I would get tested in advance of the wedding and would encourage bridal party members and close relatives to do the same. We would encourage any guests who are high risk or just feel more comfortable in masks to wear them and would arrange seating by household and/or expressed guest preferences. It would be a formal, black-tie optional event, so all food and alcohol would be served by mask-wearing staff. The venue is HUGE and could even accommodate social distancing on the dance floor. There is an attached covered veranda and we could set up cocktail hour outside (with heated lamps) in case some guests want to stay for one drink and appetizers after the indoor ceremony but don’t feel comfortable lingering for a seated, indoor dinner and dance. We would separate chairs by household during the ceremony and could even provide wristbands for guests who want to express that they are being especially strict and would prefer to keep their distance. 

   More than anything, we would make it VERY clear to our guests that we will hold zero ill-will if they are uncomfortable attending and that we respect and support their choices. Realistically, I imagine no more than 60% of those invited would attend considering the circumstances. Many family members live out of state, but nearly all of them are big drivers/road trippers and are the type who prefer to rent cars over flying, anyway. We are an interracial couple and were hoping to have a traditional cultural event/welcome party to acknowledge part of my heritage the night before the wedding, but we could combine the two nights if that seems safer and if the optics are better than hosting a “weekend of partying.” 

   Thoughts? I won’t push back or be defensive if the consensus is to simply postpone. We are leaning that way, anyway, but are holding out hope until the decided-upon October 1 decision date. There are various personal reasons we want to be married this year rather than just postponing, but we realize that eloping may be wisest. I hope this message does not come across as blind to the realities of the situation; I know that our world is under lots of stress right now. I have asked many friends for their thoughts, but I suspect many of them are saying “what we want to hear” (even those who work in healthcare or haven’t left their homes in months) because they don’t want to be the bearers of the bad news that we need to postpone. Thank you all! 

   1. There is nothing you could do in terms of arranging your wedding that would make me feel safe. It would be the virus spread rate that determined it for me.

      Some people will come because their calculus is different than mine. Some people won’t. If you have a subset of guests who you feel are absolute must-haves, then ask them. Ask them to be honest.

      My cousin had a wedding the first week in August that was fairly well attended. It was in the Midwest. Though well attended, it was much smaller than she had planned. I looked at pictures of the ceremony and reception and noticed that as the day went on, masks came off and distances narrowed. I was really glad I didn’t go, but at the same time sorry to miss her day. But again, it was the virus that kept me away, not anything to do with how she organized the space.

      1. I would not go to a wedding at all now. I love you guys, but I’d pass and try to do something celebratory afterwards. I think of weddings now as emergency wartime weddings and that is how they are happening in my non-military city: private wedding ceremony, maybe just parents or siblings, but no one else. People will understand. It’s like how in Europe there is a civil wedding that is simple and then a lavish church one later (usually days apart, but here probably a year apart). It is what it is.

         If it were me, I’d have the small civil wedding and just have a big party next year. No one will hold it against you.

   2. Honestly, I wouldn’t go, if I were an invited guest, and I’m a single healthy early-30s woman. 200 people is a lot in these pandemic times, and I’m saying this as someone who has attended massive Asian weddings in the past. Assuming that the wedding is taking place in the US, I have the pessimistic feeling that the pandemic will get worse this fall into the winter. I would be happy for you to elope this year, and be happy to attend a big party next year.

      Logistically – will you (or staff) ensure that everyone will have masks on when they’re not eating or drinking? Social distancing is hard to enforce in a celebratory atmosphere, it’s just part of human nature.

      1. Plus a million to the last sentence above.

         My thoughts are that I would not only not go, but I would seriously question your judgment and would actually think less of anybody who had a big wedding in the midst of a pandemic.

   3. I would postpone. I would personally find it very stressful to get lots of rejections, which you will get (especially if you make it clear there’s no pressure to attend, which is the right thing to do), especially since 200 people is very large. I’d rather not have the decision weighing over my head for so long. I have friends who have postponed and they felt a load off as soon as they did; that is what I would do in your situation, 100%. Best of luck to you and I’m sorry you have to deal with this.

      1. Also, for me personally, I wouldn’t be able to fully enjoy a socially distanced wedding. Part of the fun is the dancing, the drinking, the hugs, etc. and losing that would be too much of a loss for me.

   4. we were scheduled to be married in july this year and postponed the “big” celebration to october 2021 (im even skeptical about if that will be reasonable…) while getting legally married in a park with just the officiant and 2 witnesses (distanced). i guess my thinking was that i would feel really awful if somehow, despite all pre-cautions, my wedding turned into a spreader event or even if a handful of people contracted COVID and all the potential consequences from traveling to/from or being at my wedding. i want it to be a joyous occasion with as little anxiety related to it as possible. so we’re willing to wait a few more years for whenever will be. we were also invited to 3 weddings this year, one of which was in chile, and 1 has already re-scheduled and we have declined the other 2 invites because i don’t want to deal with going to/being at the events.

      1. I’m so sorry that you also had to go through this! I hope October 2021 can happen for you and be the celebration you dreamed of. As this thread is making me realize that my fiance and I need to throw in the towel and postpone, I’m thinking we’ll elope and make next fall our target reception reschedule date.

         1. A wedding with 100 attendees in central WA had 5 people test positive after and now all 100 people at the wedding should be tested. So, yeah, I would postpone- there’s no way to know for sure it won’t end up badly. https://www.king5.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/person-tests-positive-for-covid-19-after-attending-wedding-in-kittitas-county/281-d8075f7f-4a28-449c-bf91-bb1d08599213

   5. Same. There’s probably nothing that would make me comfortable attending by then, barring the total collapse of the virus spreading. It’s not just your venue on paper, it’s that alcohol and food make people social, dancing makes people breathe, I likely have to get on public transport to get there, I need to stay in a hotel. . .

      1. Why don’t you do a ZOOM Wedding? No one can get sick over the computer, and for those who do not want to attend, that is a great alternative. Besides, it will cost alot less to do a Zoom wedding and you can even host an after ceremony party in your bridal suite (of course remembering to keepyour clotheing on, especially if you have any kids watching). If I had a guy willing to get married now, I would do it ASAP, b/c in my case, my eggs are nearing the end of their shelf life. Don’t pospone, or you may not be abel to have kids if your my age. FOOEY!

   6. I am less risk averse than many people on this board, and there is no chance I would attend a 200 person wedding in December.

      1. +1. And like someone else mentioned, a socially distanced wedding wouldn’t be nearly as fun. Elope now, party later!

         1. This!

      2. +2. I would send regrets and a very nice gift but it’s just not something I would do in these times.

      3. +1 – no way is that something I’d consider attending no matter what you tell me about your protocols. Also not as risk adverse as many here but that’s a big nope for me. (I mean we are unlikely to have our usual thanksgiving/holiday celebrations this year because of needing to be indoors that time of year)

      4. +1 Save the big party for when everyone can actually attend and enjoy it!

      5. +1

   7. I would attend regardless of transmission rates because I am low risk and already had COVID. The other low risk people in my family would attend but would mostly choose to wear masks. (we actually have a family wedding coming up this fall so this is how I know).

      If I hadn’t already had COVID I would probably only attend if it was outdoors.

      I also would not travel to a state where I would be violating any state or local quarantine rules by attending the wedding.

      1. “Mostly” choose to wear masks?

         1. I’m not sure what you’re asking, but the original post indicates masks would be optional, so my response is that at least in my family, the majority would choose to wear them , but not everyone.

            If OP cares at all about her guests wearing masks, I personally don’t think it’s enough to say they are “encouraged”.

      2. Are you saying she should expect that some of her guests will choose not to wear masks?

         1. She has already indicated that she will be communicating that masks are optional for the at-risk and extra cautious.

            1. If she has attendees who are at-risk then masks cannot be optional.

         2. Yes, if masks are optional (as the original post indicates) my opinion is that some people will choose not to wear them. I think that’s pretty obvious though?

            1. Yes and it’s also obvious that everyone is saying that’s very dumb. FYI you can get covid more than once.

            2. Please don’t spread misinformation. There is so far zero good evidence that anyone has had COVID more than once and based on what we know so far scientists think it’s very likely immunity lasts at least a year, possibly quite a bit longer. Also, if you had it once and didn’t get severely ill, it’s almost guaranteed you wouldn’t get seriously ill on a second or subsequent infection. Even if your underlying immune defenses have waned to the point that they don’t prevent you from getting ill, they’re better than nothing, so a second infection wouldn’t be worse than the first and would most likely be much less severe.

            3. Sorry, I wasn’t trying to argue with anyone about masks (i’m already personally 100% pro-mask)… I’m just offering one possibility of how this wedding would go down as far as attendance/mask compliance. OP needs to take into consideration that people are going to show up mask-less if it’s only “encouraged”.

               I know the research is evolving on immunity and there have been a few cases of suspected reinfection, but the overwhelming consensus is that you are immune at least for a few months, if not longer due to t-cells. I think after 20+ million cases it’d be clear by now if recovered patients had no degree of immunity. Regardless, I wear a mask everywhere just in case and also because I think masks should normalized…my city wouldn’t have to keep closing everything if everyone would just wear the damn mask.

            4. I don’t understand the guarantee. With some viruses (even some coronaviruses), reinfections are worse. This is one of the concerns as they develop the vaccine, since it’s entirely possible to make a vaccine that increases the risk of severe damage when it’s the body’s own response to the virus that does some of the damage.

            5. Yes, it’s called antibody dependent enhancement. It’s a remote possibility and something they have to rule out before mass vaccination but no one thinks it’s likely. It is NOT seen with any coronaviruses. The other coronaviruses that circulate all cause common cold symptoms and many people have gotten them multiple times with no negative effects. It is seen with some other viruses, most notably Dengue but Dengue is a very different virus. There are I think five identifiable strains of Dengue. Infection with one strain protects you against that strain for life, but makes infection with the other strains potentially more deadly due to ADE. The novel coronavirus doesn’t have multiple different identifiable “strains” like that.

            6. I don’t think it’s seen in other coronaviruses that humans get, but I thought it had come up w/animals.

               I don’t think it’s likely but still feel it’s too soon for guarantees. I also wouldn’t want a second infection to build on any damage caused by the first infection (blood clots, etc.). But every day that passes without evidence of reinfection is a good thing.

   8. I would definitely be comfortable going to a wedding if I could get vaccinated myself. Even if a vaccine is only 50% effective at preventing illness, it will likely reduce the odds of me getting seriously ill (which are already small) to practically zero and lots of people taking a vaccine, even a modestly effective one, will reduce overall virus transmission rates significantly. However, it’s virtually impossible that I will get vaccinated in 2020. I don’t even think we’re going to have a vaccine for frontline workers or the elderly in December, let along young, healthy adults who work remotely. I expect to get vaccinated in summer or fall 2021, assuming everything goes perfectly with the vaccine trials this fall. There was an article on CNN today that said based on how the enrollment for Moderna’s trial is going (they have less than 5,000 out of 30,000 volunteers enrolled), the earliest we can expect any efficacy data is January 2021, and the experts quoted in the article seemed to think it would be several months after that before we really know if the vaccine is working.

      Before a vaccine, it would depend on a lot of things, but I really doubt I would go unless we were family members or very close friends, I could drive to the wedding and the overall rate of virus transmission in the US has dropped a lot. The rate of local transmission isn’t that important to me with guests coming from all over.

   9. I’m pretty risk averse and also firmly believe this virus is very, very real. Short of being the immediate family of the bride or groom and it being a <~15 person outdoor-only thing, nope, nothing will get me there. Sorry. I think it paints the bride/groom as being really out of touch and tone deaf to still try to hold it, whether or not you've taken certain steps to protect your guests or not. At some point isn't it just not worth it?

      1. I was thinking about this in terms of what we’ll do for Thanksgiving this year. This year, I expect our Thanksgiving to be 8 people, all immediate family, all of whom have been taking COVID preparation seriously, working from home, etc. In past years my husband’s extended family would be up to 40 people, and no way is that happening today. This is sort of how I can envision this wedding – maybe it’s bride/groom, both sets of parents, siblings, but anything beyond that feels inappropriate.

   10. Nope, unless I was super close to you, I wouldn’t go. If I was super closet o you, I’d be frustrated that I was put in that situation.

       Also, I personally would not feel comfortable hosting a wedding and bringing a big group of people who I love together, no matter what, this year. I would feel responsible for the safety of all those attending and I don’t think you can possibly control all the factors. That would majorly stress me out, and that’s the last thing you want to do for your wedding.

       Decide to cancel sooner than later to save your sanity. I am the co-chair for a large festival in my small town and we had to decide to cancel in the spring (we legally could have held it, so it did have to be our decision). I was so relieved when we finally just canceled, because while we were contemplating it we were going through all of the scenarios and precautions and that was exhausting.

       Enjoy your elopement! Celebrate that, and celebrate with everyone in 2021.

       1. I think these kinds of weddings are held together with so much duct tape (so to speak) it’s not worth it. I would go to a wedding for my sibling, my husband’s siblings, or my children, and that’s about it. And even then I would expect it to be an outdoors setting with only immediate family, and just a quick ceremony and maybe cake and punch or other quick refreshments before everyone departs, not a full sit down meal with dancing and all the traditional accoutrements.

   11. I think you should postpone. A friend of mine is still getting married and it’s been a huge source of stress for her friends. Her wedding is similar to yours – state with minimal transmission, outdoor cocktail hour, indoor dinner, if all guests come she will be at <50% capacity, masks encouraged, etc. She and her fiance are stating that they don't mind if people decline. However, a lot of her friends are annoyed at her for making us choose and I sense that she is annoyed with her younger, healthier friends for not going (I think expected high risk folks to decline and younger folks to be fine attending). I felt a lot of pressure to tell her what she wants to hear. Even though I declined due to a serious health condition her bridesmaids pushed back a bit, trying to cite the minimal transmission in the state and other activities I engaged in (i.e., outdoor dining) as having the same level of risk.

       If it were me, I would not want to worry about my guests getting COVID on my wedding day. I also would not want to put my friends in an uncomfortable position – people feel bad declining, and people who attend will be worried about getting COVID. It feels like a lose/lose to me. Plus, from a selfish perspective, what if there is a COVID outbreak at your wedding and for the rest of your life that's what turns up when people Google your name?

       For what it's worth, my doctor friends tend to be pretty liberal on COVID things but are 100% opposed to weddings or similar gatherings. They think there is no way to hold them safely.

   12. No, sorry. This is the kind of thing where everyone means well and then one presymptomatic person manages to spread it to 40 other guests. The research is showing that sharing the same air with the same people for an extended period of time is one of the biggest dangers given people are at their most contagious just before developing symptoms.

       I’d need all attendees to be vaccinated or – at a bare minimum and even then not super comfortable attending – everything to be outdoors + masks for all guests.

       1. I’m not sure how you would ever enforce all attendees being vaccinated. I think you’ll see a lot of schools and employers requiring a COVID shot as a condition of returning to school/work (much like we’re seeing this fall with flu shots) but I don’t see how you could do that with a social gathering. You could ask people to get vaccinated, I guess, but some people definitely won’t.

          1. Oh I totally realize how hard this would be to enforce. Wanted to emphasize that I will not be comfortable going to huge events indoors like this until vaccines are widely available.

          2. Lol my fiancee and I are considering putting it as a requirement on our invitation…and we’re only half kidding!

             1. Oh, no judgment (and personally I would be much more inclined to go to a wedding if the invite said that!) but I just think it’s hard to enforce. It took hours of discussion with my in-laws to get them to agree to get flu shots and TDaP shots before meeting our new baby and that was just two people (who are liberal, educated and don’t self-identify as anti-vax).

   13. Nothing. Sorry – but nothing. My cousin who already postponed from the spring to October just canceled. They’re going to do a courthouse wedding. I don’t even think it’s reasonable to delay until 2021. There are so many sadnesses related to this – and I hate to say it but this is one. I can’t imagine attending this.

   14. I would not. I’m also pretty uncomfortable with this statement: “We would encourage any guests who are high risk or just feel more comfortable in masks to wear them” and the wrist-band idea. If you do this event, and sadly I don’t think you should, you need to do what you can to keep your guests safe. Setting up the norm as non-mask and not socially distant instead of mask feels unsafe to me.

       1. +1. Masks protect others, not you, so the idea that they should only be worn by the high-risk is kind of crazy.

       2. +1. I would never go to a large, mask-optional wedding.

   15. This plan is insanely self-centered. Elope or get married at the courthouse now. Have a big reception when it’s safe.

       1. Eloping is very likely what we will end up doing, but I just have been trying to explore all options and get a variety of opinions (including with this thread) before giving up on the dream wedding I’ve wanted since I was 5 years old. I finally found the love of my life after years of wondering if it would ever happen and now we can’t even have a wedding without it being a selfish act.

          “When it’s safe” feels like it truly may not be until 2022 or beyond, at which point I feel like no one will care to attend a “reception” for a couple who has already been married 2 years. It sucks because, after years and years of spending money and time celebrating other people’s big, fancy weddings, I’m really starting to question if we’ll ever get one of our own.

          I realize that there are MANY bigger problems in the world and that I just need to suck it up and accept it and do what’s best for others, but I am sad about it. And yes, I realize it is a small problem in comparison to the fact that people have lost their lives and livelihoods in this pandemic.

          And yes, this thread is making me realize that we certainly need to postpone. We’ll get started on that.

          1. When it is safe to have a large gathering, even if that’s in 2022 or beyond, all of your guests will be delighted to finally be able to celebrate with you.

             You are doubling down on the self-centeredness here. So what if you’ve been dreaming of a big wedding since you were five years old? That doesn’t give you the right to ask your guests to risk their lives to make your dream come true. A lot of people have lost a lot more than their dream weddings to COVID-19, and plenty of other people never got to have big weddings even before the pandemic. You are just not that special.

             1. I’ve already said that this thread was a wake-up call (which I asked for and sought out) and that we will now plan to elope. I simply said that I am sad about losing out on a dream. Anyway, everyone else in this thread has given me the same advice without resorting to calling me self-centered, and I am appreciative of their grace.

             2. I have to agree with you, Anonymous. Something about the follow-up responses really rubbed me the wrong way. It also seems that both she and her fiance are infinitely more excited about the wedding than actually being married to one another.

             3. Part of my family from a cultural background that puts a TON of emphasis on huge weddings. (We are not Greek or European, but think “My Big, Fat Greek Wedding.”) My background is certainly influencing my comments and my wedding-day dreams, but I can 100% assure you that I adore, love, and am extremely grateful for my fiance. I’d marry him in a basement with no one there, I just culturally have always dreamed of the special wedding, too. That does not make my commitment to marriage and life with him any less serious.

             4. You’re not being self-centered, OP– that other poster is just a grouch. And I bet everyone will be thrilled to come to your wedding celebration in 2022 or whenever it is safe. You go ahead with your lovely, intimate courthouse wedding now, spend two years planning the perfect party, and everyone will be delighted to come. I, for one, will be beyond excited to attend parties again one day, and your wedding guests will be, too!

             5. Thanks for clarifying, Anonie. Your comments about “trying to drum up excitement” and working to get your fiance excited are the specific ones I was referring to. Glad to hear I was misinterpreting a lack of enthusiasm :)

             6. @Nah, thank you! I appreciate that. @Anon, thanks for that follow-up :)

          2. I totally feel you. You have every right to feel sad – don’t let anyone tell you you’re a bad person for that. And don’t worry – there will be pent up appetite to attend large, boozy dress up parties after all this is over, so folks will definitely want to attend your later-on reception.

             1. Thank you for your kind and understanding note! (I also only wear flats if I can help it, so solidarity there haha)

             2. +1. I am gonna go so hard at the next wedding I attend, however far in the future it may be.
                Best of luck to you OP. I hope your big reception, when it happens, is as joyous as you’ve dreamed it’ll be.

             3. @Pugsnbourbon That means a lot! Thank you, truly!

          3. I’m going to be so sick of not going anywhere or seeing my friends that I would be thrilled to attend a reception in 2022, even if you’ve been married for 2 years.

          4. I think you should focus on having a beautiful small intimate wedding and then revisit the big reception thing later.

             There will definitely be people who see a 2-year-later reception as a gift grab. Some people in my family were grumpy about attending a “fake” wedding that took place several months after the elopement. Personally, I love any chance to celebrate and would attend enthusiastically even 2 years later. You are never going to please everyone so do what feels right for you and your partner.

   16. Thank you all for your feedback. I appreciate it and I suspected that most or all would encouragement postponement. My fiance will probably want to hold out until our agreed-upon date of October 1, but this feedback is confirming for me that I want to postpone whether or not we announce it immediately. We have talked loosely about our elopement plan and I will try my best to drum up excitement for it and get him excited for it, too.

       One issue I have is that I’m scared next year won’t be substantially better and that we’ll elope this year but STILL have guests who feel uncomfortable celebrating with us next year. Thoughts on how you would feel about attending a vow renewal/celebration of marriage in 2021? Still too soon to tell?

       1. Wayyyy too soon to tell.

          1. too soon to tell, and I am not as risk-averse as many.

             1. Think about how uncomfortable *you* would feel having thrown a huge party at which numerous guests contracted Covid, and you might understand why guests would feel uncomfortable attending.

          2. I see what you mean. It’s hard because we have moved forward with wedding planning because it’s felt “too soon to tell” for months already ha…now I’m worried the same thing will happen all over again in 2021. Fortunately, our venue, wedding planner, and vendors have been amazing and we should only lose the cost of the Save the Dates when we postpone. I guess that is something to be grateful for.

             1. Yes, my sister postponed her big ceremony to 2021 and already has lost thousands in postponement fees. If she has to cancel it will get worse.

       2. Way too soon to tell. I responded earlier too, and I hate to say it, but taking into consideration your family and friends’ health and postponing is just what grown-ups have to do in this situation. Having a wedding like this is selfish and I’d judge people hard for prioritizing one day of their life – albeit a celebrated one – over the lives of their loved ones.

       3. It will be difficult to tell, but I urge you to look at the mathematical models. The one I linked above is specifically for event planning – “The risk level is the estimated chance (0-100%) that at least 1 COVID-19 positive individual will be present at an event in a county, given the size of the event.” I used 100 people on a map of the country, and it’s bleak. Most if not all of the country is between 25-50% to 75-99% chance. For a 200 person wedding, pop it into your state for the exact level of bleakness. I do not think this will resolve by 2021. Your event size is too big. If I were to plan ahead for 2021, it would much, much smaller. 25-50 person wedding at the most. 2022 is the earliest I think a 200 person wedding could be done safely. https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

       4. Not an expert but my gut is no way for the first half of 2021, still too soon to tell for the second half. The optimistic side of me says that a vaccine will be shown effective this winter, and will be widely available by summer 2021. I’ll be comfortable attending large gatherings once vaccines are widely available and I’ve been vaccinated. COVID eradication isn’t happening any time soon, if ever, and isn’t a benchmark I’m waiting for before resuming travel and social gatherings. But the summer 2021 timeline requires a lot of things going right with vaccine development, manufacture, distribution. It could easily be bumped to late 2021 or into 2022 if things don’t go perfectly.
          I also don’t want to be a debbie downer, but I think whenever large gatherings are held again – especially if it’s 2022 or beyond – there are going to be too many things built up for everyone to be properly celebrated. I see so many people saying “I’m rescheduling my wedding/milestone birthday/graduation” etc., but people are not going to be able to go to three+ years worth of celebrations in one year. If you have a friend turning 40 in 2022 are you really going to prioritize all your 41 and 42 year old friends who want do-overs on their missed milestone birthdays? I don’t think people will give equal “weight” (for lack of a better term) to all the missed milestones once we can finally gather in large groups and celebrate. I also suspect that even in a post-vaccine world some people may look askance at gatherings of 200 people. We are certainly not going to refrain from socializing with friends for the rest of our lives, but I do think we’ll see a lot of people scaling back the size of gatherings, including weddings.
          If it were me, I would have a small, outdoor wedding with immediate family and close friends only this fall.

          1. Thank you. Your comment (and many, many others) is helpful. We will elope and push the big ceremony to October – December 2021 at absolute earliest, but consider will 2022 as an alternative.

             1. This is the same OP as before (I closed my browser and am not certain why the screen name repopulated). Thank you again!

       5. Also, don’t discount the thought that your elopement may well be special and magical and satisfying, and the big blowout may feel less important once you are actually married. That’s what happened to a friend of mine who eloped and planned to do a big party later — turned out the elopement was perfect and she didn’t need anything else.

          1. Thank you! That is a kind and nice thought. We would need to ultimately hold an event in 2021 or 2022 or else we will lose substantial deposits that have been put down, but it is nice to think that the elopement itself can still be special. I like your word choice of “magical.” That is comforting!

          2. This was our experience. We did a very small elopement type ceremony with just our parents, siblings who could be there, and my grandparents. My grandpa performed the ceremony. We were ruthless in who was invited (like SIL’s boyfriend (who eventually became my BIL) was not invited, my cousins who were visiting from out of state who were right down the street were not invited, my sister wasn’t even there because she was across the country and couldn’t come back for the weekend). It was perfect and yes, magical, and I would do it that way 100% again.

             We did have a big reception two months later that we definitely could have skipped without regret, even though it was fine. It was kind of fun, overwhelming, and def not magical. :D

             1. Another bit of anecdata that I just remembered: Friends of mine who eloped several years ago and had a big party a year later are happy to tell anybody who will listen that they regret the big party because it was, as Bonnie Kate says, “overwhelming.”

       6. Wait until after a vaccine is available–that is the only way most people will feel comfortable. While New Zealand has had zero cases in 100 days, that will never be the great USA. Wait until it is widely available, and has been distributed to everyone–even healthy 30 year olds, not just senior citizens and health care providers. I’m sorry how this is unfolding, but it will be part of your story. It will likely be fall 2021 before everyone has had an opportunity to get the vaccine.

       7. How can anyone possibly answer how they would feel in 2021? We don’t even know what this fall will bring. We have no idea how well the vaccine development is going to work, how widely available it will be beyond healthcare workers and the elderly, whether there will be inhabitants of the White House who take science seriously …

   17. No. It depends where your people are coming from, but December is not a great time for driving long distances — if you’re forcing them to take flights that’s a risk unto itself. I might go to an outdoor wedding next summer for a DEAR, dear, dear friend, but that is only a handful of people I know.

   18. Postpone. 100%. If you look at the COVID risk charts developed by Prof. Joshua Weitz, just about anywhere in the South right now has a risk factor of 75-99% for an event over 100. https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu/

   19. It’s not that I think there’s not a way to do this, but I think you should ask yourself if you *want to* – a socially distanced wedding doesn’t sound nearly as fun as a small intimate wedding now and a larger party at a later date.

   20. Honestly I would elope and plan a reception for next year. I would attend an outdoor ceremony but December isn’t known for great weather here.

   21. We canceled our wedding, effectively. It was going to be small (<60 people), but it would have required significant travel for roughly half of the attendees, wherever we held it. It just did not feel like there was any way to do it safely, and we did not want to put the people we love most in the position of making potentially life or death decisions on our account.
       We're still getting married the same weekend we planned, but in our backyard with about a dozen people present, masked and appropriately spaced. All of those people live within our metro area, so no one has to travel. We're going to broadcast the wedding via Zoom, and some of the people speaking in the ceremony (readers, etc.) will be chiming in remotely. We're going to project the Zoom in our backyard so that we and the friends present will be able to see the folks on Zoom. Our invitation package includes the invitation (basically a direction to our website) but also celebratory activities, food and beverage suggestions, koozies, and items guests can decorate and return to us so we can use them to decorate our backyard. After the (short) ceremony, we'll have a little time for toasts, to include toasts from the friends and family who won't be there in person.
       All of this is very disappointing. We are also an interracial couple, and our original plan included a banquet the day after the ceremony consistent with my fiance's culture and tradition. I'm sad we'll miss that. I'm also sad because I think the best part of weddings is pulling together the people who mean the most from different parts of your respective lives and then seeing those people come to know and have fun with each other. But we can do all that one day, when the potential costs in real life and death terms aren't so high.
       In sum, I agree with others; I wouldn't go to a wedding like the one you're describing. But rather than having watered-down version of what you already planned, trying to make what you planned work with COVID, I'd encourage you to re-imagine the whole event. Start at square one, as if the world as always been this way. How can you work within the given confines to make this as beautiful, meaningful, and reflective of your relationship as possible?

       1. Maudie, your wedding sounds creative and fun :)

          A hearty +1 to your last paragraph. OP, I know this is awful for you. The hardest part for me is wondering “will X Y or Z go forward or not” and each time something has needed to be cancelled, I’ve actually felt better having decided as opposed to being in limbo.

          We replaced a Caribbean trip with a local precautions-taken beach vacation – just me and DH – and what I learned is that although at first it felt boring and disappointing to be planning our “big” vacation that way, while we were there I realized the thing I love most about vacation is uninterrupted time with him – the adventurous part of traveling is just icing on the cake.

       2. I’m so sorry you also are missing out on your big day (or at least the version you expected). Cheers from one 2020 bride to another! Your re-imagined ceremony sounds truly lovely. As I mentioned above, we will have to ultimately hold some kind of reception in 2021/2022 or else we will lose our deposits. However, I will apply your approach and see how we can create a really special elopement. Thank you for the encouragement!

   22. My MIL died of COVID and we had to hold her memorial service on Zoom. Suck it up and elope.

       1. I’m so sorry for your loss.

   23. The only way I’d be in a space with 200 people is if everyone was wearing masks and it was socially distant.

       1. So … maybe in a baseball field (but no gathering at entrances or exits and no public bathrooms)? And everyone wears a protective hat with a wide brim that keeps them 6′ from each other at all times?

          1. Better yet, everyone can celebrate separately in their own homes — Ron Swanson style!

       2. I posted a week or so ago about wanting to go to a wedding in late August in DC. I’m only going to the church ceremony part, where one is mostly quiet and sitting in one place so the venue can actually enforce social distancing. OP, it’s really the reception part I’m worried about, for my friend’s wedding and your original plan wedding. Between eating, drinking, and talking, people are going to forget about masking, it’s going to be pretty hard for a venue to enforce social distancing and they’re opening themselves up to being a covid outbreak hotspot.

          Reading some of your responses, I am sorry that you have to modify or postpone your dream wedding. But it is better to postpone the large reception until at least summer next year than to hold it this year and potentially become a outbreak spot.

   24. There is nothing you could do that would make me feel safe attending a wedding in December.

       A bride is a hostess, and the wedding reception thanks her guests for their role in her life so far and invites their support into her marriage. Inviting guests into necessarily unsafe conditions is poor hostessing, to say the least.

   25. I would go. People are so freaked out that I might elect to postpone if I were you (because seeing people freaked out makes me sad), but the question was whether I would go, and I would. I am very much of the opinion, as are plenty of others not on this board, that we’re all going to get it eventually anyway, if we haven’t already, and masks don’t do squat, so–party/marry on. You might well be surprised to find that many in your circle of friends and family feel the same and will come.

       1. Thanks for sharing this alternate perspective.

          1. I think you got your answer, but don’t lose hope on celebrating one day. Your best friends and family will want to celebrate with you when the time is right. I wouldn’t try to guess that now. Why not wait for a vaccine and then start planning. Maybe it will be a 5 year anniversary party. I don’t think the timing matters that much. People who love you will want to be there to celebrate with you. And it’s ok to be sad that it won’t be the wedding you wanted. But let go of that soon and plan your elopement!

       2. Masks don’t do squat? Excuse me? You are part of the problem.

          1. Nope. If you can breathe through it, virus can easily go through it, both ways in fact. Besides, the prevailing opinion that your mask protects me, but my mask protects you, makes zero sense unless your cotton hankie has acquired some sort of one-way pores. And, really, if it has–flip it inside out and problem solved, so now your mask protects you! The mask fetish is insane, and the point of my response to the OP was to remind her that the opinions expressed on this board are not universally held. There are plenty of studies pre-Covid on the efficacy of masks at stopping viruses, and, spoiler alert–the virus wins every time.

             1. If that is true, why do doctors and nurses where them, both pre and during this pandemic?

             2. I assume you won’t mind have a multi-hour surgery performed by doctors and nurses who are unmasked then?

       3. I genuinely don’t think that people are “freaked out” but are simply reasonable or cautious.

          “Plenty of others not on this board” … who, exactly? conspiracy theorists?

          “masks don’t do squat” … so, you don’t believe in science? … basic facts?

          I think she’s going to have to call her wedding a Catch Covid Party if she follows your advice.

          1. So I actually do agree that we’re all going to get it eventually anyway because our country has fucked this up beyond belief (I’m American, obviously). However, I would like to delay my COVID bout for as long as possible so that we can get a more solid handle on how to treat it and prevent any long-lasting ill effects. Diving in headfirst in the early stages seems like an idiotic approach to me.

             1. definitely. If and when I do get it… I’d rather maximize my chances of best-practices treatment. Until then, taking reasonable precautions (herd mask-wearing included) is fine with me.

       4. Even if someone were okay with catching Covid at the event I was hosting … eh, I would not be okay with that.

       5. I kind of agree in that the risk isn’t going to get to zero anytime soon, if ever. The risk will eventually get to a point where people go about their lives. That risk number may be different for everyone, but it’s already started. I see more people on the train every day, and my life is about 80% pre-Covid.

          I do wear a face covering though, because in general it seems like a good idea for people not to snot all over each other.

       6. I would also attend. Attending a nicely thought out wedding that allows for distancing is within my risk tolerance.

          1. Thank you for sharing. This is what many people in my personal life have said, but I’m scared that they are secretly afraid to attend and are just being polite. That is why I posted to this forum and why, after reading the vast majority of the responses, it looks like my fiance and I need to simply elope this year and postpone the big celebration. I really think that, unless a vaccine becomes available WAY sooner than predicted or cases miraculously drop in numbers across the US before October 1, I can’t in good conscience move forward this year.

             1. Yeah, if you’re getting a lot of responses like this, they’re being polite because they see how much you want this. Even if they RSVP yes now, most of them are probably going to hedge and you’ll have a lot of late cancellations.

             2. That definitely makes sense!

       7. Yep to (almost) everyone will get COVID eventually. Unpopular opinion, but the promised vaccine timelines are WAY too optimistic. I think this pandemic ends when enough of the population gets it that we begin to reach natural herd immunity. That threshold isn’t really known – it might be as little as 20-30% of the population, which we’re probably nearing in hard hit states like NY and Arizona – but it might be as high as 90%. My guess is somewhere around 60-70% because they think ~%30 of people have some natural underlying immunity, likely due to recent infection with other coronaviruses that cause more mild illness. Before anyone accuses me of being anti-science, I have a bachelor’s degree in the life sciences and my professional work is in this area, though I’m not a scientist myself. I do think we’ll have major advances in treatments in the next year, but those treatments will likely only be available to severely ill/hospitalized patients and will not be offered to anyone who can recover at home without needing hospitalization. If you’re 75 and have diabetes and have a 20% chance of landing in the hospital if you get COVID, it’s probably worth trying to self isolate for a year and hoping we have much better treatments developed in that time frame. Not so much for a healthy 25 year old who is extremely unlikely to be hospitalized from this. People definitely have quarantine fatigue, and I think that will amplify significantly when we get into 2021 and the promised vaccines don’t arrive and we see more and more elderly folks dying from non-COVID causes after spending the last year or more totally isolated from friends and family. I fully expect the vast majority of the population to have resumed mostly normal life by mid-2021, even without a vaccine.

          (I do think masks have some proven effectiveness, fwiw, and I would personally not go to a wedding hosted by someone as cavalier about mask wearing as the OP. I feel safe flying because masks are required by the airlines and they actually enforce it. I wouldn’t attend a 200 person indoor wedding with no mask requirement.)

          1. I agree that the vaccine timelines are too optimistic. The vaccine is also not likely to be terribly effective. That’s not a reason for OP to have a big wedding, though. Quite the opposite. It may never be safe or responsible to have unmasked gatherings of 200+ people again.

             1. If you never want to attend a 200 person gathering again, that’s your right, but you don’t get to just mandate that they can never happen again. Lots of us value quality of life over quantity, and celebrations like weddings are pretty important to quality of life. It’s also MUCH easier to say “I’m not doing X forever [ or for 5 years or whatever]” than it is to actually follow through on that. I know several people who swore they weren’t flying until there was a vaccine who ending up flying this summer to see friends and family because they missed them too much – and it hasn’t even been 6 months! I expect next summer the number of people returning to normalcy to be much higher because 1) we’re talking about a much longer time period since this began, 18 months vs 6 months and 2) people are going to furious when the promised vaccines don’t arrive and say, well, I can’t wait forever. And frankly, I sympathize with that. Right now we’re giving up a lot of what makes life worth living, and it can’t continue forever.

       8. Well, now I wouldn’t attend since people like SmallLawAtl will be there enthusiastically not wearing masks and thinking COVID is nbd, so…

          1. Yup same. This is why we can’t have nice things.

             1. Exactly. We have outdoor dining opened up here and I’m still staying home because it’s the bad people who are out and about — sloppy with their masks, getting too close to other people, and my anecdata from people in the restaurant business is that they’re bad tippers, too. The good people are still mostly home.

       9. “I am very much of the opinion, as are plenty of others not on this board, that we’re all going to get it eventually anyway, if we haven’t already, and masks don’t do squat, so–party/marry on.”

          Are you one of the partiers at the Lake of the Ozarks, per chance? Or is it the Hamptons, or the LA Mansions? It doesn’t really matter if this is your “opinion” because it’s not grounded in scientific truth. Go back to Fox News and OANN with your “masks don’t do squat.” We deal in reality here.

       10. There’s an article in the August 8 Washington Post that the novel coronavirus may actually not be that novel, and a significant portion of the population may already have some degree of immunity. So, even a liberal leaning paper is willing to have an open mind that the situations may be controllable sooner than current thinking

           1. Yup, there was a study recently that said around 35% of people have underlying immunity. Anecdotally, I know quite a few people who have lived with positive COVID cases or had extensive exposure to positive COVID cases at school/daycare and not tested positive, so it is clear that not everyone in the population is equally susceptible.
              I actually think we’re seeing the effects of herd immunity already. If you look at the numbers carefully, a lot of states and countries are hitting a clear downward trend in their curves when they have 2-3% of their population with confirmed infections, which probably translates to 20-30% of the population actually infected. That doesn’t mean that COVID is going away instantly once 30% of the population is infected. For one, the slope bending downward is just the beginning of the end and many people get infected after that point. For another, I suspect right now we have one group (essential workers, people who are being careless about precautions, etc.) that is well over 30% infected, and one group with less exposure and way less than 30% infected, and if the latter group were to resume normal life we would immediately see a huge surge as the virus spreads through all those people who don’t have immunity. But I do think herd immunity is already helping us to some degree, and that by next summer we might be approaching the 60-70% threshold needed for this to really burn out even as we return to normalcy.

   26. If your wedding was within the rules of your state, my state didn’t require a quarantine on my return, and it’s not too difficult to get to, I’d attend.

       1. Oh, yes! No matter what, we will NOT do anything that breaks state rules.

   27. I have not read the other replies. I would say that right now, with a deadline to RSVP or make some kind of decision by October 1st, I would consider attending a wedding that was outdoors and/or in a large enough venue where social distancing is possible. No traditional dance floor. I would consider a hotel stay. I would not go if i were high risk. i would not go if I had concerns about bringing my children (if invited) or having someone stay at home with them (if babysitters were needed). And likely for a very close friend only.

       You would be smart to plan a smaller, more intimate wedding for ~50. Maybe ceremony only, with an even more intimate reception outside or somewhere huge like a museum you could rent.

   28. Even though I think all of your precautions are perfectly thoughtful, I wouldn’t go.

       The only way I’d attend a wedding now and for the foreseeable future, absent some miracle cure, is if it was driving distance and tiny (like 20-25 people), preferably outdoors. (Think: an immediate-family-only ceremony is the type of thing I would attend right now. Or if a local friend invited like 5 friends to a park to watch her get married, I would go).

   29. I would consider attending a very small, socially distanced wedding (with masks) in my home city if someone very close to me was getting married. Otherwise, I can’t really see myself attending a wedding until we have a vaccine and things have pretty much gone back to normal, and I definitely wouldn’t travel for a wedding at all. I’d rather my friends and family just tie the knot in a small courthouse or backyard ceremony, and then host a big party to celebrate when it’s safe to do so.

   30. Honestly, the only thing that would make me feel comfortable going to something like that would be a vaccine. I’m not the person who loved weddings in the person who loved weddings in the before times, but now I’d be very anxious that Dear Aunt Sally or whoever wouldn’t be able to gauge six feet, being trapped chatting with Mr. Virus IsaHoax (Pop’s old friend), even if there were sensible rules and precautions from the couple getting married.

       FWIW, I think that any couple who gets married before the end of the pandemic gets to have the biggest, floofiest, most extravagant post-COVID wedding celebration they want (or not) and it counts as A Real Wedding.

   31. If you had 25 or fewer people I would happily attend. Your precautions seem completely useless and would not make me more comfortable.

   32. Coming in late with a different take. I wouldn’t go because unless you are my child, my BFF or my fiance (and we’re getting married) I don’t go to weddings any more. I don’t enjoy weddings and wouldn’t go to one out of a sense of obligation when by attending I might get a disease that might kill me, or might spread to people I love and kill them. I don’t disagree with the people who are saying everyone will get it eventually, but I’m going to save my “maximum exposure” event for something like a funeral for a dear loved one, or something really super-duper important to me. Not someone’s wedding. Most weddings we send regrets and a gift and for this it would not be different, except, as others said, I would wonder about your judgment (and your parents’ judgment if that’s how I knew you).

       If folks haven’t figured this out, let me just be the parade-rainer and say: no one cares as much about your wedding as you do, except maybe your parents. No one else has had the “since I was five” fantasies about Your Big Day and is super-emotionally-invested in how it goes off. I am married and have been for a long time and at this point my wedding is a very faded memory because enough good stuff has happened to me that the wedding seems like one blip in a long list of high points. For those who don’t know, the big activity at weddings for the non-family, non-close-friends guests is for people to sit at tables gossiping about how much things cost, telling hilarious-yet-unflattering stories about anyone they know in the wedding party or the families involved, and figuring out if there’s any way they can sneak out early. You’re paying $200 a plate for them (and if you have any manners at all, not expecting a return on that) and enduring months of torturous planning for people to do that at your blessed event, just remember. After enduring way too many weddings where it was apparent we had either been invited because more numbers were needed to create a bigger show, OR there was a gift payback anticipated, as I said, we bow out and send a reasonably-priced gift off the registry. Most of the 200 people you’re going to invite, OP, would rather be somewhere else than at your wedding – just being real. Covid gives them the perfect excuse not to go. So if you want to have your wedding somewhere in pandemic times – whether that’s December or next year before the vaccine or whatever – be prepared to be disappointed when the majority of people RSVP “no.”

       1. I expected most of the other answers I got in this thread, but yours is really surprising to me. I must be biased, as I LOVE attending other people’s weddings, come from a huge family of people who love attending weddings, and have a social circle of people who get super excited about weddings. But, from the bottom of my heart, I have never interpreted attending anyone else’s wedding as a burden and hope that anyone who feels that way about mine stays home (whenever it finally happens) and declines to send a gift.

          1. Also, I have to add: weddings are extremely expensive per guest, so I highly doubt anyone is inviting you simply to “fill spots” at $100 – $200 a chair.

       2. I love attending weddings and cannot relate to this perspective at all. I believe you, but the people you know sound awful.

       3. THIS. Unless your wedding is in an interesting location that I’ve been wanting to visit, I’m there out of obligation. They’re all so repetitive and not nearly as fun as everyone pretends they are.

   33. We cancelled our August wedding back in May. It was heartbreaking, but what ultimately made me feel better was that even if we had it (big events are allowed here), it just wouldn’t be fun. We wanted the big dance party, the hugs, the eating and drinking, the gathering. To me, there is no point in having a big wedding if everyone is going to sit 6ft apart with masks on (which our venue insisted they could do). We lost about $10k in deposits, but did not want to postpone because we did not want to keep making the same decision over and over. Many of our friends thanked us when we sent out the cancellation notices. We plan to elope this winter. Maybe we will have a party someday, maybe not. Tbh, cancelling so that our family and friends did not have to risk getting Covid at our event was worth losing our deposits (even though that was plenty painful).

       1. I am so sorry that you had to go through this situation and that you suffered a financial loss. I hope that your winter elopement is beautiful and that you eventually get your party!

3. I loved dexflex comfort flats from Payless. Anyone have suggestions for something similar now that Payless is gone? The wide sizes were so great for my wide bunioned feet. No good for walking any distance but easy to store a selection in my office file drawer.

   1. You can get good deals still on dexflex shoes on Poshmark. I actually just ordered some boots over the weekend from them. The dexflex 10W always fits me. Sometimes on Amazon too, you can still find them.

      1. Amazon still had some also last I checked.

   2. I had some amazing red pumps from them as well, I wish I knew where to find another pair.

4. Guys, my grand-boss (notoriously difficult) just sent me an email declaring that I was “kicking butt!!!”

   2020 could not get any weirder.

   1. Good job! Hard to kick butt in these times. Or hard to feel like you’re kicking butt? So external kudos is nice to get!

      1. +1. Definitely save that email to a special folder.

   2. That’s a nice way to start a Monday!

   3. Fantastic! Go, you!

5. Anyone have any real experiences with Parachute bedding? Specifically looking at the Cloud Cotton Quilt – it seems like it would really hit the perfect balance for DH and I. The abundance of sponsored reviews everywhere though makes me a little suspicious of all of the rave reviews.

   1. That’s what we use and I LoVe it – it’s light weight and still pretty, eliminated the need for a duvet set up (which irritated me w keeping it all neat), I’m a total convert to the line – I also love their sheets and pillows

   2. Following. I’ve had my eye on it. Can the person below who has it comment on the weight of it? I can’t tell if it has some loft in it or not.

      1. It’s pretty thin – more bedspread loft than say a duvet loft, but it’s lighter so it’s puffier than a bedspread is – like a fluffy modern bedspread is a good description

   3. LOVE their sheets, and I am not really a snob about sheets. That is all I’ve tried, though.

6. I haven’t been to a Target since March, and was honestly kind of excited to go today because I had a quintessential Target shopping list – Britta filters, 2 pillows for the guest room, some new kitchen canisters and a box of Kahlua Keurig pods that I can’t seem to find anywhere else. I masked up with my KN95 and reminded myself that I was not to get carried away and would stick to my list. What a weird disappointment it turned out to be. There is nothing on the shelves, and not just obvious quarantine type shortages but literally 2/3 empty shelves in all sections. I found the filters but they had no pillows, only some random boxes of off-brand Keurig pods and no canisters at all. The kitchen section had like one set of glass mixing bowls, some drip pans for burners and a couple of stand mixers. No sheets or towels. Water filters but no water pitchers. No signage indicating going out of business. The only section that looked like it might be fully stocked was the clothes, but I didn’t go over to check.

   This is a major Target in SEUS. I work in logistics so I understand the supply chain issues of the last 6 months but this was just bizarre. Has anyone had a similar experience?

   1. Maybe all of the college kids back to school shopping took these items? I live in Charlotte, and I have not experienced this at our target just outside the city center.

   2. Weird! I’ve had the opposite experience at a target last week. A random target where I am was very well stocked. I found 20 and 35 lb dumbbells on the shelves which I thought were totally gone everywhere. The home foods section of target was well stocked it was grocery aisles that sometimes had only certain brands and nothing for other brands but if you just needed the item and are brand agnostic it would be fine. A marine supply store was weirdly empty shelves everywhere even though it’s prime boating season and definitely not going out of business.

      1. Same. I went to Target last weekend and they had entire shelves of hand sanitizer! The only thing that looked to be running low was some cleaning supplies.

   3. Yes. I think it’s because right now is move in for college students and back to school for kids. Our target was packed this past weekend and tons of stuff was sold out. It has not been like that the other times I’ve been in the last couple of months. I’m also in the SEUS.

   4. That’s so strange! I had a hard time finding things in mid-June, but Target was one of the places that was more or less stocked. If it was mostly grocery items missing, I would say maybe try a different time of day/week, but idk why they’d have low stock on that many different things.

   5. Lots of things are very out of stock as 1) lots of people are getting around to those little projects like decorating a guest room or replacing filters/other home maintenance work, 2) lots of people are buying several weeks or months worth of items so that they can limit trips and 3) partially blame Trump and a) his petty little trade war with China and that so much of our crap comes from there, and b) his weird war to defund the postal office – which given activities of the recent weeks (please look into recent news about this, he is purposefully destabilizing the postal office to be able to claim ineffective or delayed mail-in voting – his unqualified appointee is already causing significant mailing delays in certain areas).

   6. Our Target has been barer than usual, too, although not to the extent you describe. I’ve been doing a lot of ordering from their web site and it seems to be reasonably well stocked.

   7. Our Target seems fine. West Coast.

   8. I haven’t been shopping in person since March, but friends have commented that Mondays are the worst day to go anywhere because stores seem to be taking longer to restock after the weekend.

   9. Our Targets are sort of picked over as well. It makes sense – people who legitimately did have a need to buy bedding, or clothing/shoes for growing children, or whatever, picked over what was there and it wasn’t a priority for them to re-order bedding and clothing.

   10. That is weird, my Target is mostly fully stocked. Maybe they’re rotating seasonal items out?

   11. Target in my Midwest college town is pretty well-stocked.

   12. Everywhere we shop has gaps in supply.

       1. Are you noticing any patterns? Like one week we’ll have zero paper towels, then the yeast is gone for three weeks, and then it’s something weird like cheese or shampoo. I’m stumped. Midwest.

       2. I’ve been noticing the same thing. While I don’t love using A*azon, going to four different stores to find small propane tanks and a similar piece of camping equipment sure took the fun out of brick and mortar shopping this month.

   13. Yes- exact same experience and it was worse at TJ Maxx. Pillows, sheets, and towels were difficult to find. There was only one choice of towels- so pale blue towels it was.

   14. Any chance this past weekend was your state’s back-to-school sales tax holiday? Things are always cleared out after that, even for non-school clothes stuff.

       The TJ Maxxes in my area have been very, very lean lately, but I’ve chalked that up to the change of seasons.

       1. Is anyone actually going “back to school” though? Kidding, sorta. I know kids still like new clothes and stuff like that but I imagine school supply lists look very different for Zoom learning.

   15. If this weekend was your state’s tax-free weekend for back-to-school shopping, that could explain it. Our Target gets cleaned out that weekend every year, and it takes weeks to fully restock.

7. If you were going to open a new investment account at Vanguard, what would be your top choice, all-around index fund for growth? I’m doing my own research as well – just looking for casual advice. I want this account to be set-it-and-forget-it, but it’s been years since I did any in-depth research on the different index funds there.

   1. VTSAX

      1. +1

         i’m heavily in both vtsax and vfiax

         (not my site just a link to consider)
         https://fourpillarfreedom.com/vtsax-vs-vfiax-which-index-fund-is-better/

   2. vsgx and esgv

8. I recently accepted a new job with a significant pay raise. I would like to buy something special for myself to commemorate all my hard work to get to this point in my career. I’m the type that wears the same jewelry every day – I’ve been wearing the same diamond studs, wedding/engagement ring, and right hand ring for a decade. I’m thinking I would really like a diamond pendant necklace – classic and would go with everything. Recommendations for the size of diamond and best website to purchase it? I’d like to spend no more than $1,000.

   1. I think Blue Nile hits a sweet spot with just this sort of thing, and they have a ton of choices. I also wear the same simple jewelry nearly every day, and the pieces I wear most are from Blue Nile – I find the quality is nice and the pieces are classic and have held up well.

      1. My engagement ring is from BN – worn it nearly every day for 11 years and it’s held up nicely.

   2. Congrats on the promotion! I’m the same way about my jewelry and wore a diamond bezel pendant every day for years. (I’ve since replaced it with a mom necklace, which also layers nicely with the bezel setting. :) It’s around 0.38 carat. I’d recommend Brian Gavin Diamonds as a reputable website where you can select the stone and the setting.

   3. check out sarahojewelry – there is a three stone bezel set that is gorgeous

9. I’ve wanted a dog for years. Now that I’m WFH for probably another year at least, it seems like a great time to get one since the last reason I was holding out (that I would not be around enough to be a good pet owner) is no longer an issue. I have never had a pet, but I love animals and have spent a lot of time around friends’ dogs.

   I am single and live in a 1000 sq ft condo in a major city. I’m close to several parks. The neighborhood is very dog-friendly.

   So… I should get a shelter dog, right? People seem to be very pro-shelter and I’m always seeing #adoptdon’tshop hashtags online. But I’ve had a few people warn me that you don’t know what you are getting and many of the dogs have been abused or have behavior issues. I don’t know if I would be able to handle a dog with severe issues, much as I would want to help.

   I’m also confused about purebred dogs. I keep reading that shelter dogs are the only way to go, but I see purebred dogs everywhere, so someone is getting them! Is there no justifiable reason to get one?

   What about male or female? Does it matter? Do any of you dog owners have preferences?

   Help a dog lover out!

   1. Just FYI, it’s not an either/or thing – I adopted a 4 month old puppy from a rescue org (they pulled the mom out of a high kill shelter when she was pregnant, and then adopted out mom and puppies) about 10 years ago. My dog is definitely not purebred, but I was able to adopt her without the concerns about abuse, etc. in her past and wondering how to deal with that. I took her to dog obedience classes as a pup and she’s now a very happy senior dog who sleeps a lot of the day. For me personally, I could not/would not purchase a dog from a breeder knowing that there are many loving dogs out there who need a good home. That said, my SIL bought a chocolate lab puppy from a breeder for her family, and he’s a lovely dog, perfect with kids (which my dog isn’t – while she doesn’t bite or growl at my son, i’m pretty sure he annoys her and she frequently will retreat to another room when he starts to pester her), so I see why people do opt for the breeder route. I would just say if you do decide to go that route, please choose a very responsible breeder who really cares about their animals and isn’t in it purely for the money.

      You may want to post in the am thread, you’ll get more responses I’m sure.

   2. Personally, I think you should peruse the shelter listings and try to go that route IF you can, but don’t feel insane pressure to do it that way. I get really irritated at a friend who acts like not getting a dog from a shelter is akin to genocide, especially when the only dogs available from shelters here are Pitt mixes or Chihuahua mixes, neither of which I am interested in (and I’m not kidding – 98% of the dogs fall into those categories). Why not look into a breed-specific rescue? Greyhound rescues are active and greyhounds are great dogs that love to relax and hang out with you. I also have relatives that have used golden retriever rescues.

      1. +1 for breed rescue, provided you can meet the group’s written and unwritten requirements (yard size, fence height, SAHM, etc.) These groups can be kind of crazy, but the other side of that coin is that they want to make the best possible match and are not as likely as a shelter to try to stick you with the wrong dog. You will have to be patient. It took us nearly a year to bring home our rescue golden retriever, but the wait was worth it.

         A rescue greyhound would have the perfect energy level and habits for a single working person. They are super lazy except for the short period each day when they are in exercise mode.

         1. Greyhounds are dogs who do normal dog things. They thrive on the same level of activity as any other adult dog. Many of my fosters over the years are greyhounds who didn’t live up (down?) to this “lazy” ideal, did normal dog things and came back because they weren’t houseplants.
            We hike. We do obedience. We play with balls. I wear them out so they aren’t bored and choose their own (more destructive) adventures.

   3. Slow down. Breathe. I’ve owned several dogs my whole life and currently own three, about to get a fourth. Dogs are extra work, but not hard work, let this be a fun process.
      Start by browsing the local shelter dogs – most major cities give each dog their own little profile with information about them – including temperament, likes and dislikes, age, gender, breed, and if there is one, a backstory.
      Stop listening to your friends. A shockingly large proportion of shelter dogs are owner surrenders not street dogs, so there is often a lot of information on them – there are so many sweet pups with no issues who are in a shelter only because they got too big or the owners had to move. Also, dogs can come with a variety of issues that are all over the place on a scale of severity – many which are real issues but rather personality quirks (like stubbornness). As a new dog owner, aggression is the only thing that would be difficult to train out – other issues doing a little research or getting a trainer would help.

      As a new dog owner, you probably shouldn’t worry about breed unless you are particular about personality traits specific to X breed or looking for low to no shed dogs (water dogs and poodle mixes usually). If you are worried about breed, start at a breed specific rescue then look to an AKC registered breeder.

   4. I think there’s a lot of good reasons people get breeder dogs, so I don’t judge that. For us, getting a shelter dog meant getting a dog that was a little older so there weren’t the potty training/overnight potty training issues that you get with a puppy. We paid attention to the breed (there’s everything at shelters – pet finder was great for searching our area) for temperament guessing. Good friends for breeder dogs that have issues, my husband had a shelter dog with issues, there’s no telling ahead of time. They’re like kids that way. My vote was a small dog – they’re so much easier (poop is smaller, you can scoop them up and out of trouble, easier to travel with, etc). Ended up w a shitzu mix who is the light of our lives (True to her breed, she’s stubborn but smart and loving). Totally go for it. Now is a great time but everyone is in on the game so you might need to aggressively go over a dog you see and want.

   5. I have a rescue and am very pro-shelter dog, but I also think it’s not the “only” way to go – especially in a situation where you don’t have a lot of room. You don’t have a huge yard to accommodate whatever dog you get, and so I personally think you need to be pickier about size and breed. And that’s definitely easier when you adopt from a breeder. Not to mention that shelters are very picked over right now because everyone is doing what you are. Which is awesome! Save all the dogs! But in your situation, as someone without a lot of dog experience, you may find dogs with more issues than what you want are the ones left. Male/female doesn’t really matter because you need to be a responsible pet owner and get them fixed as soon as practicable.

   6. My suggestion would be to work with a rescue. They take dogs from shelters, foster them and put them out for adoption. We did this because it was our first dog and we wanted some insights as to how the dog would behave in a home . The foster parent provided good notes on what the dog was like and what she needed. Some rescues also do foster to adopt so you don’t have to commit till later.

   7. “You don’t know what you’re getting” also applies to purebreds. There’s nothing about knowing the genetic lineage of an animal that improves its behaviour.

      If you’re worried about abuse, adopt a puppy. Play with the dogs before choosing which one to get; you’re better able to determine which one will be a good fit.

      1. No – but if you know the lineage and breeder and have met both of the parents, you have a better idea of what you are getting.

         I have a purebred dog that I paid real money for (from an excellent and reputable breeder who probably did not recoup all of her costs for the litter because of expensive testing she did of the parents). And I realize that a lot of people think that is horrible – but I have encountered dogs that were legitimately vicious, especially with children and have had a dog take a bite out the side of my face and am therefore probably more paranoid than others.

         Also, where I live, the adoptable dogs are overwhelmingly pit mixes or terriers and I am not bringing either of those into my house with my kids. Or they need much bigger yards than I have. And the breed rescues basically will not consider families without someone at home full time.

         Which is not to say you should not consider it! (I have an angel friend who basically has two older dogs at a time – when one dies she adopts another senior dog.) But don’t get guilted into a dog that does not fit you and your life or spend years on the never-ending list for the perfect adoptable dog.

   8. I am a dog owner and have had both purebred dogs and mutts, though I’ve never purchased a purebred dog and would never pay more than a reasonable adoption fee for a pet. If I were getting back into a dog sport, I absolutely would purchase a dog from a breeder who specialized in my sport. I have rehabbed dogs in the past who competed at high levels, so that’s absolutely do-able, too.

      As a working adult, I do not do puppies and prefer to not get a pet who is less than 2-3 years old. Maybe when I’m retired. Older dogs are great for new owners. The best advice I’ve received and given is to go to the shelter and ask the staff who their favorites are. Most often, these are slightly older, laid back dogs who aren’t as showy or conventionally cute as the ones who get snapped up quickly – and with a bath and some groceries shine up nicely!

      Male/female – doesn’t matter. I prefer medium to large dogs.
      Don’t spend your hard earned money on doodle-mutts. No matter how slick their marketing materials are, the people who crank those dogs out are nothing more than backyard breeders peddling mutts.

      Dogs are wonderfully adaptable and resilient. Get a copy of Patricia McConnell’s “The Other End of the Leash”. It’s the best primer on dog behavior and human-dog interaction I’ve read and should be required reading for all prospective dog owners. Good luck!

      1. I have a “doodle-mutt” — my first dog ever. No dogs growing up. I wanted a non-shedding dog because people in my family have allergies. I was nervous about getting a dog that I couldn’t handle re: behavioural problems and probably didn’t pay enough attention to the possibility of adopting a puppy from a shelter.
         My dog is 20 months old now — he is a sweetie pie, but spoiled and we are still working on some resource guarding — mostly with shoes he likes to steal when no one is looking.
         I was on an extended leave when my pup came home and I’m glad I had that time with him. He was a lot of work as a puppy. Not nearly as much now.
         Without a doubt, one of the best decisions I have made. Enjoy!

   9. Shelter and purebred are not mutually exclusive! All kinds of dogs end up in shelters. I know lots and lots of people who have much beloved shelter dogs with no behavior problems. They do have to put work in to train and love these dogs, of course.

      Our Lab came from a local breeder because we wanted our first family dog to be one we had worked with from the ground up and trained ourselves. (And that’s becoming really valuable right now as I see some of the mistakes I’ve made!) Next time, we’ll probably try to go for an older dog since puppies are exhausting, either from a shelter, a breed-specific rescue, or even from the same local breeder if the timing is right for some of her breeding dogs to retire.

      Male vs. female is a crapshoot. My dad chose a female Lab puppy for our family dog because he wanted her to be smaller full-grown so my mom could wrangle her if necessary (they had an 80 pound golden before that and my mom is five foot nothing). If you’re getting a larger breed that may be something to consider. Some of my relatives say female retrievers are moody, but my dog is a total drama king and the aforementioned female childhood Lab is a totally chill sweetheart. Really, it’s the luck of the draw, love, and lots of exercise.

   10. Family dogs have come from all avenues – rescue groups, shelters, and breeders. We’ve found on balance that you get the most information about the dogs from rescue groups because most of the dogs are fostered in someone’s home and their personalities come out more. Responsible breeders will mean a significant cost for the pup.

       Be prepared to be frustrated with the rescue groups asking a ton of question and even wanting to interview you. Being honest, after dealing with one last time I wanted to adopt a cat, I said $#^^ it, went to the pound and got my super amazing cat who all I knew was an owner surrender.

       I’ve never been on team puppy and prefer adult dogs. They destroy less and come with their personalities in tact. It’s kind of how kids get a lot more fun once they can go to the bathroom by themselves.

   11. I have had two “free” purebred dogs from a breeder. One was the breeder’s retired mom dog, “retired” at age four because the breeder was conservative and didn’t want to over-breed her dog. The second was a “reject” that another owner returned because they had to move. When we lost the mama dog at age 17, we paid for her great-granddaughter and she is the only dog we ever raised from a puppy and the only one that we paid money for, other than the rescue fee.

       Our first four dogs before that were all strays and we were unable to find their owners. And now our two newest dogs are rescue dogs from agencies who get dogs from kill shelters.

       Getting a puppy is a lot of work but you are able to shape the dog instead of getting one that is already set as an adult. Getting an adult shelter or rescue dog, what you see is what you get, so in that sense you know the dogs positives and negatives and aren’t surprised: That can be a positive. Usually they are housebroken but one of ours was basically feral and needed a lot of work. The other one wasn’t feral and was house-trained but had a fear of men (so sad that he may have had bad experiences with men) so we had to get him over that fear.

       So if you’ve never trained a puppy before, I’d try to get a shelter or rescue dog that is pretty well trained. If you get a rescue, some stay with foster parents for a while and they can be good sources of information about the dog. I agree not to get a dog that has been abused or neglected. You can get a young rescue or shelter dog (young as in <1 to 2 years old) which might have some of the young puppy experience. You can also get an older dog 5-8 which would give you a more stable experience.

       You may luck out and get an older dog from a breeder like I did.

       Good luck!

   12. I think there’s a lot of nuance to this issue, and a lot of it comes down to your geography and situation. I got a dog 3 years or so ago in a similar lifestyle situation – decent size condo in a major, dog friendly city, with lots of parks around. I started out hell bent on adopting from a shelter, and I wound up getting a dog from a breeder. At least at the time I was getting a dog, and in my city, the only dogs available at organizations that would adopt to a single woman without a backyard that worked more than 40 hours a week (regardless of my plan to pay for daycare 2-3 days a week and a walker the others) had Chihuahuas (too small for me) and pit bulls (which my building doesn’t allow. I contacted many of the breed specific rescues as was basically told they had more families interested than dogs, so anyone in a high rise or that doesn’t have a work at home or part time stay at home parent at least wound up at the back of the line so I was unlikely to get a dog. So I researched breeders, asked around, put myself on a wait list for 4 months and finally got my delightful golden retriever.

       I think had I been in a different city with more adoptable dogs, I would have wound up adopting, but that wasn’t feasible and I don’t feel guilty about it at all.

   13. I want to commend you for asking the questions – and being open to rescue. I have 4 rescue dogs now – two were foster failures (meaning we fostered them but fell in love and kept them). I know there were a lot of comments to your post so I’ll be brief: if you adopt a puppy from a shelter there’s very low risk that you’ll get behavioral issues b/c it’s a puppy and there hasn’t been time for it to be mistreated and/or develop bad habits. You might also contact a local rescue group and become a foster with the intent that if it works out you’d adopt. Just make sure adoption is an option. Some rescue groups use fosters for just a couple of weeks to make sure they’re healthy before they go off to another rescue group in another state. I’d hate for you to fall in love to find out you can’t keep him her. As for male/female, if I were you I’d get a male. Also, my 2 males naturally bonded with me and the two females bonded with husband – I think it’s just a male/female thing. Good luck!

   14. Echoing others that this isn’t a either/or issue. We currently have two purebred dogs we got through rescues.

       I got our first dog when I was single living in a high-rise apartment. He’s a Walker hound and was four months old when I got him. He’s actually a “foster fail” – I had been thinking about getting a dog, but I was like you and wasn’t sure if it was going to work for me and the dog, so I signed up as a foster with a local rescue group as a good way to have a trial period with a dog. If we weren’t each other’s cup of tea, I could just keep on taking him to adoption events at PetSmarts on the weekends. And if he went home with someone at the first adoption event, then he wasn’t meant to be mine. They emailed me with a picture of my guy and said he was at a rural shelter and was the last left in his litter and was about to be put down if someone didn’t take him, so I ended up with him. And naturally I ended up falling in love with him :)

       Our second dog is a purebred Chesapeake Bay Retriever – they’re uncommon, expensive dogs, so it’s a little unusual to see them up for adoption. She was 3 years old when we got her from a rescue a few states away. Someone had clearly tried to train her as a hunting dog but had no idea what they were doing and kind of “ruined” her, as in, she’s really bad at retrieving and absolutely terrified of any loud noise. Shrug. We all have our things :) She’s perfectly fine at laying around the house and being a big warm lump to cuddle with ;) Her owner had dumped her on the side of a rural road and the local animal control took her in and then a local rescue got her before her time was up at the shelter.

       (You should be noticing that the rural to urban dog pipeline is alive and well…)

       I will say this – if you’re in a city that has lots of animal rescues, evaluate each of the rescues. Some of the rescues are SO insanely, aggressively vigilant about who qualifies to adopt a dog from them. You have to have an interview, references, a home inspection, provide bank statements, etc. Other rescues are chill and realize that every dog they place in a decent home is a dog that isn’t euthanized. I have no patience for the former type of rescue. But I say that just to give you a heads up when you start looking on petfinder and see a giant list of insane requirements to adopt, they’re not all like that and don’t get discouraged – you’ll find the right rescue and pup for you :)

   15. You might want to considering fostering first! You get to know a bunch of different dogs and learn what your needs/preferences are as a dog owner, it is kind of like “try before you buy”, lol. I say this as someone who adopted their foster dog, after fostering a few different dogs. I also in a major city, under 1000sq ft condo, dog friendly neighborhood… I learned I wanted an adult dog, a female (males mark), that doesn’t shed, is house trained, affectionate, and lower energy. My checks all the boxes. When the time comes to get a new dog my family will definitely go this route again.

       1. We had an amazing Bichon from a high end dog shop that sourced from breeders – we got lucky – the two other dogs we looked at there had real issues. Moving forward twenty years when we knew better (puppy mills, etc.), we adopted two dogs from a rescue, both around one year old. One has stranger danger issues but I will say their foster families were expert dog trainers so they both came to us with training, a big plus in my book. We also happen to be close with the families as they are really cool, plus they like seeing how their former fosters are doing (spoiled!). Regardless any dog you get will hopefully be such a joy to love on. They are amazing company – good luck!

   16. I strongly believe that you should get the dog that is right for you, and it doesn’t matter if it’s rescue or purebred. And no matter where you get the dog, make sure it matches your personality, home, exercise level, etc. The best way to approach this is research and really thinking through your priorities. Do you do any sports (run or bike with a dog)? Will you be able to pay for doggy daycare when you go back to the office full time? Will you want to travel with the dog? Which dog personality traits are most important to you (intelligence, loyalty, energy, friendliness, small, large, off-leash abilities)? If it’s not a good match both you and the dog could be miserable (that’s how a lot of dogs end up (back) in shelters).

       I have a Siberian husky in a 1000sf condo in a major city. She loves city life and gets bored when we visit my parents with their large house and yard. The city is dog friendly and she loves joining me on patios, shopping, and is trained to run (on leash) along with my bike. She loves the people, the noises, and big events like parades. I joke that the pandemic has been almost as hard on her now that everything is closed. She’s my first rescue husky, all my previous huskies were from a respected breeder. When I was looking for a new dog, I went to a breed-specific rescue with a long list of traits that I knew would make good city dog (friendly with both people and other dogs, stimulated and not overwhelmed by crowds, highly trainable for good behavior in city settings). She still has plenty of anxiety issues, likely from being abandoned, but we work through those.

       All this to say, find the right dog for YOU.

   17. It also can be useful to look at shelters outside of your major city. We live in DC and got our dog at the Richmond SPCA, which is an awesome place. The DC shelters mostly have pit bulls but our dog was a two year foxhound mix. She isn’t perfect but she’s very sweet and has had two accidents the entire time we’ve had her. I got fed up with the small rescue organizations, they are honestly full of crazy people who only want to adopt dogs to rich people without kids in single family homes who don’t have jobs so they can be with the dog every moment of the day. The SPCA is great. They’re really saving animals there and their goal is to find them good homes. I used to volunteer at the spca in NYC too and they’re also great.

10. I just 100% struck out from the NAS, lol. I had three things in my wish list and they all sold out during earlier access periods. Frustrating. There are a few things that would tempt me to splurge if I had anywhere to wear them during the foreseeable future… but if I bought them now, by the time I’ll be back in the office, I’d probably forget I had them and want to get something fresh anyway.

    1. My wish list is all gone too, ugh.

    2. Stuff comes back in stock constantly so there’s still a chance.

       1. something tells me the True Love br@l3tt3 is done as it’s sold out in all sizes and colors… maybe I have sale fatigue but having to stalk something that sold out before the majority of potential shoppers can even see it (and I’m even an influencer level thanks to one big purchase this year!) is not compelling me to check back daily, or making me feel excited for the thrill of the hunt… it is just offputting. I’ll find a different br@l3tt3 and life will go on.

11. This spring, we had no real virtual schooling from our large SEUS city school system. Now, it seems that they have over-corrected (but tell me if I am wrong).

    Virtual school is now 7 hours a day, with a 50 minute break for lunch and recess (combined for 1 kid; separated by an hour for other kid). The schedule has 4 blocks throughout the day, each spanning 75 minutes, with small breaks between blocks to go to the bathroom. I’m glad they will get live instruction for Reading and Math each day, but this seems . . . ambitious? Like if I had to be dialed-in on a computer screen for that long each day (my guess is that homework and reading will happen after “school”), I’d burn out and get squirmy and I have a pretty long attention span. This is for 5th and 6th graders though.

    If your kids’ schools did virtual learning “well” in the spring, what did that look like? My sense is that actual homeschooling only takes like 3-4 hours, so I was really surprised to see them tied up for 7 hours a day.

    1. My kid is not yet school age but I agree with you that this seems like way too much even for an adult, let alone a kid. There’s definitely a happy medium between sending home worksheets with no live instruction (what my school district did in the spring) and this plan. I think for a 5th/6th grader, I’d want several hours of live instruction every day with more independent, non-screen work for the other half the day. I can’t imagine staring at a screen for 7 hours straight! Ugh, poor kids.

    2. I had to take a week long training virtual as part of my job and we took 8 hours of work down to 5 and we’re still getting comments in the evaluations about how 5 hours in front of their screens is a lot.

    3. Schools have it rough. Too few hours occupying the kids and it’s a nightmare for parents to monitor when the kid does or doesn’t have to be at the screen, find the correct Zoom login, etc. Too many and it seems like too much screen time.

       To that end 7 hours does seem like a lot. Thinking back to those ages, there was a fair amount of time during the day when it wasn’t active academic instruction – like we might have gone to the school library to choose a book for a book report, or been in computer lab, or art class, or science day, or been in band or gym, had quiet reading time, heaven-of-heavens had the TV cart rolled into the room, or had time to work on a project or assignment while the teacher kind of walked around and monitored us.

       I wonder if any of the blocked time will be used similarly – like, “go pick out a book and come back and read at your seat” or whatever?

       1. Our district is planning to do things the way you suggest. A typical 100-minute high school course block is supposed to start with a Zoom meeting for attendance and lecture, then kids work independently or in small groups in a breakout room, then rejoin the class to wrap up. Elementary is supposed to be alternating short videoconferences with independent work for the length of a full school day. A parent is expected to sit with elementary kids the whole time, which is … unrealistic.

    4. I’ve heard so much complaining the other way–that virtual school is too short and that too much is self directed. Also, this would seem to give working parents a shot at actually getting some work done because their kid is in virtual school.

    5. I would push back on this. Even kids without hyperactivity problems, sitting and staring at a screen for that long would be awful. My husband has a job like that but I can get up and move every 30 minutes or so. I’d have to get up and do jumping jacks to stay awake.

       I guess it depends on the subject and teacher. Maybe they’ll have time for independent work built in.

    6. I did a meeting with a virtual event planner recently, and he was discussing all the things companies are doing to keep people engaged for an hour virtual event.

       All I could think about was the lengths we are going to go to for adults for one hour and yet we are expecting children to sit for hours on end in virtual schooling. If adults need all the bells and whistles to pay attention, imagine what it’s like for a child.

    7. My middle schooler has one live lesson per subject each week, so this amounts to one live lesson per day. Then he is expected to do 50 minutes of work on each subject per day. He has 5 subjects, plus PE. So almost five hours of school on the computer, plus the live lesson. PE is supposed to be 30 minutes of physical activity. We will use our hour long evening jog/bike-ride for now. As it cools off here, we might switch to doing something additional during the lunch hour. The 50 minutes of work per subject can be done at any time during the day, but my son is pretty self-motivated and will knock most of them out before lunch. He usually has one left after lunch and then depending on the time of his live lesson that day.

12. Late in the day but I’ll ask anyway. I’m a w2 contract employee. So I work for a company (B) who hired me out to another company (a huge multinational, we’ll call them X). Employees and contractors of X have the option to work remotely until September of this year. It is unclear what the plan is after September. My entire team, myself included, is exercising the WFH option. This afternoon, I received an email from B that I am not allowed to work, not even remotely, if my temperature is above 100.4 degrees. While I understand this completely, I do not have paid sick days. If I get a fever, I will not be allowed to work and therefore will not get paid. Is this legal? I’m sure it is. It just seems…odd. But these are odd times. What makes me even more nervous is that X is laying off half of their workforce. Contractors have been hit hardest. I just find it hard to believe that if I have a fever and am not allowed to work, I’ll be able to keep my job. Borrowing trouble, I know.

    1. My knee jerk reaction is: If you’re working from home, how would they know? That said, if you’re “sick”, which you certainly are if you have a fever that high, than telling you not to work because you’re not at your best is not unreasonable…

    2. I think it’s a CYA statement for B to make sure that their employees don’t sue them. Our company sent us an attestation form that we state that we will not come anywhere near work or another employee if we have a fever of 100.4 or greater. It’s probably advice from the HR lawyers. Even though B may have WFH employees, it’s just a blanket prohibition so no employee could say “I didn’t think it applied to me because of a, b and c.” If you’re work from home, like the other poster said, how would they know? Keep your head down, do the work and good luck!

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