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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Leather can be difficult for the office — it can look too tough, too cheap, too sexy — but this top doesn't really have any of those problems. Instead, were this simple colorblocked peplum top made out of silk I think it would be downright boring. Leather edges it up, deepens the colors, and makes it look that much more lux. Know your office on this one, but I like. It's $231 at Nordstrom. Bailey 44 Dribble Colorblock Leather Front Top
Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.
(L-3)
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Miss Behaved
I like this a lot, too. But I just blew out my clothing budget for the month. My budget was already at its max. And then the cashmere sweater dress I’ve been eyeing at Bluefly just got marked down with free shipping so I went for it. I figure it’s my reward for enduring a terrible migraine. I’ve had it since Saturday. I wouldn’t even be in the office but I have meetings all afternoon.
Sydney Bristow
Yikes! I hope you feel better soon.
A cashmere sweater dress sounds amazing!
KC
Oh wow, I really like this a lot too. I sympathize, as my monthly clothing budget just went to cashmere as well. Hooray for post holiday sales!
Ellen
This color block is really pretty, but DAD says NO more clotheing for me until Spring! FOOEY! I will show ROSA b/c Ed does NOT bar Rosa from buyeing clotheing that she like’s and she is very svelte and would look good in this.
I am heading to court soon with the new guy. Lynn called the judges’ chamber’s and the judge said he would meet with us after calendar call. YAY!
Sam texted me and said he would like to take me out to lunch this week. I worry that he is getting the wrong Idea, but I found out dad called him to encourage him to date me. Talk about treating me like a child. I am old enough to know who I should date and who I should NOT. FOOEY!
Jim also wants for some reason to date me now. He was the guy who gave me a baseball hat that I gave to Rosa to give to the kids. I cannot think of him as a romantic partner. FOOEY!
A Nonny Moose
DC-area PSA: the Club Monaco in Pentagon City mall has the entire store at 70% off. I guess they’re closing or moving or something. There was a ton of inventory in many sizes left yesterday afternoon– and associates were adding more. Trendy things and some suits and denim too. Definitely worth stopping by.
roses
Omg. I really hope I can get out there! I love many of their pieces.
emeralds
Club Monaco makes great t-shirts, if anyone needs to stock up! I’m wearing one today, as a matter of fact :)
Miss Behaved
I ended up buying it in the sable, although I love the claret:
http://www.bluefly.com/Hadley-James-sable-cashmere-surplice-foldover-cowl-neck-sweater-dress/SEARCH/323525902/detail.fly
preg anon
Dang it, you just made me buy that. :) I got the claret. The last one! It is gorgeous.
NOLA
Wow! That’s really beautiful.
I’m trying to decide what to do about dresses. I’ve lost enough weight that some of my dresses are just too big so I’m going to put them away. I’m not sure I want to replace them at this point (replaced one so far with the exact same dress because I like it so much), but I don’t want to miss the opportunity to buy dresses with sleeves for when it gets a little warmer. Right now I can wear skirts and heavier sweaters.
Anonymous
Can you have some of them tailored? Its probably worth taking a haul to the tailor and seeing which ones they can take in.
NOLA
No, I don’t think any of them are structured enough for that. Nor really expensive enough to be worth it. They are too long, which is workable, but too big across the shoulders as well. The one that I replaced was just over all wayy too big.
Susedna
Ahhh, the temptation! But I’ve resolved to not buy anything until I return from our mini-vacation later this month. Not good to have all these packages stacked up outside our front door for days and days.
zora
Wow! i’m totally jellin… that is all. ;o)
zora
wait, that’s not all: It also totally looks like something Jessica would wear on Suits, gah! Double jellin!!
Mentee
Lovely top, though maybe better for a night out than a day at my office.
Sorry for the immediate TJ, but I need some advice. My large company has a formal mentorship program through which I (early career) have been assigned a mentor (mid-career). She works in a different office, and in a few days I’m meeting her in her neighborhood for coffee. Two issues come to mind –
1. I have no clue what this woman looks like. I can kind of guess from her name about her ethnicity, but that could be completely false. Should I ask her to meet outside of the coffee shop? Tell her what I look like/am wearing? Or should I just show up and ask everyone if they’re my mentor, blind-date style?
2. Who pays for the coffee? Should I offer?
Killer Kitten Heels
1. I’d let her know what you’ll be wearing/what you look like, and/or ask her to meet you at a very specific spot to cut down on the whole wandering around “are you my mother?” style thing.
2. Usually companies with formal mentoring programs reimburse mentors for coffee, so I don’t think you need to offer to pay.
kjoirishlastname
I would offer to pay for the coffee, if I were you. About how to identify her–just start off by saying that since you all haven’t met, could you meet outside/what you’re wearing is fine, I think. Obviously don’t say “I’ll be in the black peacoat.” Make it something unusual, but not inappropriate. Think, “I will be wearing my houndstooth coat”
Conversely, if you’re meeting her in her neighborhood, could you offer to pick her up? Even if it were her office neighborhood, (of course, assuming you would be driving), you could say that you’re going to pick her up at noon or whatever.
Brant
I’ve had blind meetings before. Look for the person looking for you :) It sounds crazy but if your mentor is there first, she’ll be looking at the door. You should say, “excuse me, do you happen to be X?” If not, you have not embarrassed yourself. Just get a table, sit down, and look at the door. If someone catches your eye and comes over, that’s probably who you’re waiting for.
Another sneaky tip would be to check out your company’s directory (if you have one), or linkedin, or just google her name with an image search.
Sydney Bristow
Does your company have any sort of intranet that might have employee pictures? I’d also search LinkedIn to see if you can find her profile with a picture.
Famouscait
I routinely meet people I’ve never met in a crowded theatre lobby. My standard line goes like this:
“I look forward to seeing you at 7:30pm in front of the backstage doors. I should be easy to spot as I will be wearing X” (a green dress, a purple blouse, etc.)
It has worked every time!
Baconpancakes
It’s an incredibly dreary day in DC. Poll: what’s everyone’s dream outfit for today? Mine is my new fair isle thermal night shirt and some fleece-lined slippers, accessorized with an ivory electric blanket and a huge glass teapot of flowering tea. :-)
TO Lawyer
I wore a ponte dress because I knew I would be drafting all day but I really wish I was in yoga/lounge pants instead
Cb
I’m working from home today and stupidly decided today would be the day to wash all our throw blankets. So now I’m wearing a sweatshirt dress, leggings and the quilt off the bed cape style.
First Year Anon
Cape style- I do this ALL the time at home!! I need my cape at all times :)
Paige
I love capes! You should take a look at Ellsworth & Ivey, they make the most incredible capes with monogramed labels! I LOVE THEM! http://www.ellsworthandivey.com
Bonnie
That sounds awesome. I’m wearing my new uber comfy stretchy suit http://www.lordandtaylor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/en/lord-and-taylor/three-quarter-sleeve-patterned-jacket
I love the colorblocking of the top but can’t see wearing that much leather to the office and the cut is something that I would not wear out.
kjoirishlastname
Today is “not jeans” day. Our office is casual, and I’ve been wearing jeans while it has been ridiculously cold. Today is Loft glen-plaid brown trousers & a wedgewood/baby blue cowl neck sweater. Oh, and my Clarks. Love my Clarks.
I need to remember to think of all my brown pants as neutrals, rather than trying to pair them with brown-ish tones all the time.
zora
good work on the combo! Blue and brown is my favorite.
emeralds
Assuming I have to go out in public, leggings, fuzzy socks, boots, and my cozy funnel-neck sweater-dress. I am actually wearing leopard-print flats, black skinny trousers, a dark purple t-shirt, and gray cardigan. Don’t know what I was thinking this morning but it obviously wan’t “It’s going to rain all day.”
Lady Tetra
I had to wear a suit for a meeting this morning, but now I’m wishing I could be in some nice ponte pants and a big, comfy sweater. If nothing important happens, that’s probably what I’ll wear tomorrow!
kjoirishlastname
Explain ponte pants to me please? My only experience with ponte is when it was initially used, like 15 years ago…is it better now?
Is it basically like business-looking yoga pants?? It’s knit, right?
Family law - SW Florida?
Can anyone recommend a good family law attorney in the south Florida area? Orlando, Ft. Meyers, Miami, etc. Thanks very much!!!
A Lawyer in NH
Ben Yormak is an excellent attorney in SW Florida but I do not know if he does family law. If he doesn’t, he will know someone who does. You can tell him a lawyer in NH referred you and he will know who I am. :)
http://www.yormaklaw.com/
Family law - SW Florida?
I just emailed him and said it was an anonymous referral from a NH attorney. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like this is his practice area, but perhaps he can pass me along to another excellent attorney. Thanks!
Anon
Florida is big. Which of these do you actually want? Those cities are many hours’ drive apart.
publishing??
I’ve got a children’s story that I would like to get published. Obviously, it needs work (it’s about 1,000 words); but I wanted to know if anyone in the hive knows how to go about getting something published?
Anon
My husband had a few of his books self published. I think he went thru AuthorHouse. You could try and google them. He still gets residual checks quarterly.
Anon Lawyer
Stupid comment of the day.
I’ve just made an appointment to try on some bridesmaid dresses (I’m the MOH, not the bride) and the shop responded saying they recommend you wear a strapless bra ‘for your comfort and to get a better idea of the dress shape’.
Now I understand if you are wearing a strapless dress, you would need a strapless bra, but if you’re not wearing one where you would see the straps, I assume it doesn’t matter. It goes without saying that I won’t be wearing a strapless bra because of my bra size, but I’m curious why they would say this is ‘for your comfort’. I imagine that even for smaller busts, strapless bras aren’t that comfortable, but please tell me if I’m wrong.
Any ideas why strapless is better?
Anonymous
They’re probably just assuming that you’ll try on a range of dresses that might include strapless, so want you to be prepared – otherwise you might just try the strapless ones on braless, and hate them.
rosie
Never been bridesmaid dress shopping, but is it because the salesperson might help you into and out of the dresses (like with wedding dresses)? In that case, “for your comfort” is code for privacy/modesty.
Cb
Yes, so you can try on dresses but not feel entirely bare. When I tried on wedding dresses, I wore nylons (was looking at some tea length dresses) and a strapless corset that I had from when I was in a wedding.
SMSS
This
mascot
Along those lines, if you are normally a thong person, you might be more comfortable in boy shorts or something with a little more coverage.
I’m pretty busty (34/36DD) and wore a strapless dress for my wedding. I found that going down a band size for my strapless bra kept it from sliding down but still allowed me to breathe. Before that, I never could keep them up.
Anon
None of my business, but you might consider that you should go down a band size for every day, too. A tighter band keeps the support coming from your torso and relieves the pressure on your shoulders.
mascot
Your advice is solid and I agree. In my case, I had recently gotten professionally fitted so my everyday band size was properly snug.
roses
Might be a wild guess, but I’m thinking that they’re suggesting wearing strapless vs. wearing no bra at all if you try on a strapless (or halter, or one-shoulder) dress. I’d say the majority of bridesmaids’ dresses have a neckline that you can’t wear a regular bra with, so the warning seems to make sense, even if the wording is a little strange.
January
I would guess that they mean “for your comfort” in the sense of “so you won’t be embarrassed by your bra straps showing.”
Anon Lawyer
Actually the point about ‘bra versus no bra’ makes this all make a lot more sense. No bra was never an option that even occurred to me… *cries quietly into keyboard*
Baconpancakes
Ha, I know the feeling. My entire freshman hall went feral one week and declared they were going to have a contest to see who could go the longest without wearing a bra. At that point in the semester, most of the girls were wearing yoga pants and sweatshirts every day any way, so they didn’t see any point in wearing a bra. I had never before realized bras might be _optional._
Anonymous
I’ve been a DD since I was about 12, so bras have basically never, ever been optional for me. I don’t even feel comfortable going to the mailbox without a bra. I would never leave the house without a bra, and if I’m hanging around in the house, I prefer to be wearing a tank top with a built in bra-like shelf thing.
Brant
Uh, I’m a small C and don’t leave the house without a bra. I will only go to the mailbox braless if I have a jacket on!
Hell, I don’t even leave my bedroom braless– tank with built in bra, ok for a quick trip to the kitchen for coffee but never braless.
Anonymous
http://www.livescience.com/28664-bras-make-breasts-sag.html
Bras definitely provide us with comfort, but they do not “prevent” sagging.
M
I just got married and went through the whole rigmarole of bridesmaid dress shopping with my 7 bridesmaids (yes, 7. And each had a different style dress). They probably suggested a strapless bra because the vast majority of dresses now come strapless — it’s much easier to add a sleeve or strap than to remove.
Anon
Anyone tried the mini pill and have a bad experience re: anxiety, depression, mood swings? I’m thinking about starting it to help with PMS symptoms, b r e a s t pain and cramps, but cannot deal with the emotional stuff that comes with the regular pill. I welcome your experience stories!
One anon
I’m currently on the mini-pill and have been for 5 years. I had spotting for about 5-6 weeks when I started it, and since then, no side effects.
Cb
I’m on the mini pill (Cerazette which sadly isn’t available in the US). I love it although I had major moodiness and cramps (my normal 1 day of PMS) but no period this month which is a bit odd.
The first 7-8 months, I didn’t have a period, now I seem to be on a 6-7 week cycle. You do need to be very consistent with your timing and careful if you have any sort of digestive issues within a few hours of taking it.
anon-oh-no
i went on it for a while after my first baby and while i was still nursing. i dont recall any emotional issues (other than the ones that were already there becuase i had just had my first baby!) but the spotting was so bad for me that it just wasnt worth it. I’ve heard that about the timing before though and for the life of me, I could not manage to take the pill at the same time every day.
kjoirishlastname
I found that it was actually better–less swing-y than traditional BCP. I was on them during my nursing stints, and then as per typical US med, went back on regular BCP once weaned. I don’t think I ever had a period while on it and nursing, but it was probably the combination of the two that kept it away.
Jessica Glitter
I was on it b/c I can’t take any pills with estrogen. I had wacko side effects with every normal bcp I have been on, and thankfully did not have them with the mini pill. The only side effect was very long/ irregular cycles but I will take that in exchange for no moodiness or weight gain.
Jenna Rink
You might consider Nuvaring if you haven’t tried it before. I have major emotional problems with the pill, but I don’t even notice PMS on the Nuvaring.
anon
+1
Anonymous
I was on it and I hated it. I got bad acne on my face, back acne, and I didn’t have a period for a full year (not complaining but it was kind of odd). Also I gained 5lbs in my stomach I could not lose. My doctor said I probably just need the estrogen in a normal hormonal birth control pill. I’m on Mircette which helps with migraines. You don’t get a dip in estrogen like other pills.
snowy
I switched to the mini-pill from combo BCP about 8 months ago. I have not gotten my period at all on it, but my migraines and acne came back (original reasons why on combo BCP).
If anything, I think my depression/anxiety has improved as compared to the estrogen-containing pills. But if you feel like it’s making it worse for you, it probably is! Everyone responds to hormones differently (some people have terrible periods and acne, some people don’t, etc), I assume they way they affect depression/anxiety is no different.
PurchaseAnxiety
We are under contract to purchase a house, and the inspection uncovered insulation in the attic that contains asbestos. The sellers agreed to remediate it, but I’m having some serious anxiety about proceeding. I keep hearing stories that remediation, if done incorrectly, can actually cause more harm by stirring up dust (the attic is open to part of the house, so we can’t leave it alone). I know that the contractor is a licensed asbestos remediator, but the reviews on the contractor (via Angie’s List, etc.) are so-so.
I am supposed to speak to the owner of contracting company in about an hour, but I’m having a difficult time figuring out what to ask to calm my nerves that they won’t take short-cuts on the job. My (very, very) little kids will be in the house. We have one final out under the contract if I can’t get over my anxiety about it (air quality tests post-remediation). Any suggestions from purchasers who were in a similar spot?
Diana Barry
Can you come back with a competing bid/contractor to do the work instead? I think the air quality tests should be fine to give you comfort afterwards. Or could you ask the guy for some testimonials?
FWIW, we had to remediate the asbestos in our house ourselves (I think we got a price adjustment). They come in with serious equipment and you can tell where it has been removed.
Also, for replacing the insulation afterwards, I would recommend icynene.
Bonnie
You should be fine with a licensed remediator and air quality tests after the work has been done.
Daughter of a safety freak
I understand your anxiety. When we purchased our current home, we found out on closing day that the finished basement had failed the radon air inspection and they had just forgot to tell us. *eye roll*. I went into straight panic mode. Even though we could get out of contract, we didn’t want to. We wanted the house without the radon.
My dad, who is a retired chemist/microbiologist/safety inspector talked me off the ledge. I think his advice applies to your situation too. I can’t restate it with his wisdom and delivery but I will try to get the gist of it.
Basically, people were around bad things for many many years before we knew they were bad. Bad things only happened to some of them, not all of them. Then after we knew they were bad we went nuts about making sure there was NONE of the bad things. A little bit of the bad things isn’t as bad as lots of the bad things. With something like asbestos, it sitting behind the walls is way less risky than if it was in a carpet you were stepping on constantly. Half the battle is knowing so that you can use proper precautions around the stuff – like don’t rip it out without a mask.
It is hard to trust the contractors and remediation companies because they make all of their money convincing you that THIS IS BAD. At the same time, know yourself. Are you going to get psych induced asthma worrying about it either way? Did the people that lived there before you live to a ripe old age? So many SCHOOLS still have asbestos in them. Many old office buildings do too. You have to access your own risk tolerance but just remember how many people are fine despite minor exposure to BAD things.
I don’t, however, have advice on leaving it versus re-mediating it. My advice is on buy or walk. Couldn’t you cover it with something where the dust could never come out? I am clearly not the scientist of the family.
Gov anon
I have a bit of experience in this area because of my job. I wouldn’t be worried if the remediator is properly licensed. IME, it’s unlicensed contractors who cause the problems. I’d suggest an air quality test after the work is complete for extra peace of mind.
Anita
I have a bit of experience in this area because of my job. I wouldn’t be worried if the remediator is properly licensed. IME, it’s unlicensed contractors who cause the problems. I’d suggest an air quality test after the work is complete for extra peace of mind.
Anonymous
Maybe you have a crap husband. Thats what it sounds like.
anon
You’re not a bad partner/wife. I want to scream that a lot too. A lot of times I just want to string together expletives until I run out of combinations. But I don’t. That is what makes you a good wife.
Anonymous
I often find myself having imaginary conversations out loud in my car when I am alone where I tell my husband what an idiot he is. I don’t say these things to him, and usually they are minor things that don’t warrant an actual argument over. But saying the words out loud makes me feel better.
anon from above
Funny, when DH was an alcoholic (he still is? but he’s sober), I used to have dreams of cussing him up one side and down the other, giving him ultimatums. They were very intense dreams, but they were also very cathartic.
I find that doing the same as you –telling him off in private–is helpful too. I find that it actually decreases the amount of resentment and anger that I feel. In doing this, I’ve learned to let a lot of things go.
Same
I do this too.
emeralds
I think this is a human impulse. Never been married, YMMV.
snowy
+1 I’ve felt this way about friends, colleagues, parents, and my husband. It’s hard to be mature and calm all the time, sometimes you just want to scream!
AIMS
I like this top but I don’t know if I would wear it to work. I have another top with leather on the shoulders/top part, it’s all black, very conservatively cut, and it’s the only thing I wear to work that Mr. AIMS routinely comments is not work appropriate, which is funny because I think a lot of other things I wear are much more questionable, but something about leather. Go figure.
NancyNonymous
Regular poster going extra anon for this because I feel like it easily identifies me.
I’m 35 and some recent hormone tests show that my fertility is on a sharp decline. My doctors have encouraged me to freeze eggs/embryos and then start TTC as soon as possible. My boyfriend and I have been together for about two years and are freezing embryos together in the next 2-3 months. Due to my fertility issues, I am not very likely to get a ton of embryos, but hopefully 3-5.
We are not formally engaged, but have discussed getting married this year and then starting to TTC immediately thereafter. To complicate matters further, in terms of wedding planning, my brother is getting married in April, my sister in October, and his sister just got engaged a few weeks ago. My boyfriend has strongly suggested that he plans to propose “soon,” but I don’t know if that means a few weeks or a few months.
Here’s the problem and here are my questions: I’m (irrationally?) annoyed at my boyfriend for not proposing yet (despite months of conversations and explaining my worries about fertility/timing). He wants to marry me, but he’s extremely slow by nature. I love him so much, but I’m starting to resent the fact that he’s taking so long when time is so clearly of the essence. It’s starting to feel like it’s too late to do a more traditional wedding and now we have so many competing family weddings that I wonder if it’s just not going to happen this year after all.
I’m not entirely wed (pun intended) to the idea of getting married before TTC, but it’s surprised me how much it seems to matter to me. That said, I don’t want to rush/ruin what should be an exciting time in our lives by the time pressure. I also don’t want to waste the dwindling amount of time we have left to try for a baby.
Does anyone have any thoughts on whether it’d be too late/crazy to plan a 125 person wedding at a traditional venue for later this year? Thoughts about whether it’d be better to try for the baby first? Advice for how to strangle my boyfriend and/or ruin what may be an imminent proposal?
I know I’m going to get people saying that I seem to care more about the wedding than the marriage, but that couldn’t be further from the truth. I just already know that our relationship is rock solid. I guess it’s been hard to deal with the emotions that stem from finding out about my fertility issues when combined with the perceived loss of control over things that matter to me a lot (timing of our wedding and when to try for a baby).
Thanks in advance–I know this was a long one!
tesyaa
If the question is, is it too late to plan a traditional wedding for 2014, the answer is no. In my social/religious group, people routinely plan traditional weddings for 300-500 guests on 3 months notice. These include engraved invitations, formal, catered, sit-down dinners, live music, flowers, photographers and videographers – any services you’d expect at a formal wedding.
I can’t answer any of your questions relating to your relationship or your (very understandable) desire for a baby.
wedding planning
The wedding can be done — we planned our wedding in less than 8 months, major East Coast city, good time of year, with about 150 guests.
As far as TTC before getting married — I understand the reluctance, but it may be something that diminishes once the wedding date is set and close at hand, i.e., a month or two before.
Brant
We did a Boston wedding for 125 in ~7 months. Really, we booked the venue 7 months out and I did nothing else until 3 months before :)
Maladroite
Same here, in Chicago. We had our date/ venue set at the start, then basically sat on a ton of decisions until the last three months. We made it juuuust fine and with no stress aside from getting parents to narrow down their invites and seating arrangements. We could easily have done it in four months.
Anonymous
why can’t you propose?
NancyNonymous
I know it’s old-fashioned, but I know he’d feel like I robbed him of the chance to do it if I did it first. I’ve joked with him about it for a while and his reaction is very “don’t!!” I also want him to do it. I’m old fashioned at heart, I suppose.
SS
No real advice here, just some support. I don’t have the fertility issues but I’m five years older than you (so, pretty darn close) and otherwise this could be written by me. I’m struggling with the same balancing issues of wanting a wedding that my far-flung loved ones can plan to attend, suffering very real time pressures, and being rather shocked by uncomfortable I am with the idea of TTC before being married. So I’m looking forward to the replies!
AIMS
Some thoughts: you could start TTC and get married later. Or you could get married now in a small ceremony (courthouse?) if being married before having children matters to you, TTC, and then plan a big wedding celebration after the baby is born. You could also not wait around for BF to propose and propose to him yourself – I never understand why more women who really want to be engaged do not consider/pursue this option. Finally, whatever anyone tells you, it is totally possible to plan a wedding for 125+ people on very little notice. You just have to be flexible as to venue, date, other specifics, etc. You will not book your dream venue on a Saturday or Friday, but you can totally have a weekday wedding. A good friend was pregnant and her mother pulled off a wedding for 300 in about a month (mother was super set on the marriage happening before baby for religious reasons). It was lovely.
And last but not least, I know this isn’t what you asked for but you have 2 family weddings on your side alone this year, and one on his. I know it may not be fair, but to add a third large wedding (assuming they’re both 100+ guests) may put a financial strain on your family (assuming your parents may want to help out with paying for wedding/relatives may have to travel and want to get gifts, etc.). This isn’t something you should base your decision on, but it’s something to keep in mind as you consider your options.
Germs
I think it’s crazy to start ttc before marriage if you want to be married. Having a child together is a bigger commitment than marriage! Why guy needs time before he is ready to be married but not time before he is ready to have a child? If you don’t want to get married that’s fine obviously but if you want to it seems crazy to plan to have a child first
NancyNonymous
Well, the reason would be that you can get married at any time, but you only have a certain number of years to have children. This is especially true in my case.
For me, the preference to get married first has more to do with what I think happens to you as a couple when you’re engaged–your families come together, there’s a formality to it that I think strengthens your bond. I suppose that could happen afterward (or after I’m pregnant), but that’s where the preference comes from. I don’t doubt his commitment.
One concern I have about TTC while engaged, though, is being nauseous at our wedding–and I don’t want to be showing. I know that’s silly, but I’d prefer not to be. It just seems like too much stress during a pregnancy, too.
Anon
one thing I learned after TTC for 2 years with a miscarriage is that you cannot plan out your perfect pregnancy. Would you rather be nausous at your wedding / showing at your wedding or not have a baby? Seriously, you need to consider that. If I was in your shoes I would be trying starting yesterday. Good luck!
NancyNonymous
Well, the only reason we’re waiting now is because we’re going to freeze embryos first (in hopes of a second pregnancy down the road) and I have medical stuff I have to take care of before I can do that.
Also, my follicle count isn’t so bad that waiting another 6-12 months would matter much (if at all)–they can predict how quickly your fertility is disappearing with that information so they know that I may be fine now but it’s safe to say I won’t be in another 1.5-3 years.
But you’re right–those are the considerations I’m trying to keep in mind. It’s just hard to not think “three more months? Can I have three more months?”
Bonnie
It sounds like you and BF still have some things to figure out. You may want to reconsider fertilizing the eggs with him unless you are 100% sure that you will end up together without the pressure of the ticking clock. Keep in mind that if you were to break up, he could fight you for the embryos. You can freeze the eggs alone even though it decreases the chances of success.
NancyNonymous
I appreciate what you’re saying, but we’ve already hashed that all out. He’s 100% committed to me and to us getting married. He’s very much a man of his word and he wouldn’t make promises he didn’t intend to keep. He’s just also way more laid back about this than I am–he’d love to just get started TTC right now and worry about a wedding later. He’s also offered to go do it at the courthouse before we do any of this. There are some other external factors that have made it a less-than-ideal time to get engaged (his sister’s engagement and some health issues I’ve had to deal with) but I know that he wants to marry me. I’ve even had to tell him to stop talking about it so openly with his family until it’s official.
But all that said, if we make three more months and we’re not engaged, I may reconsider the embryo decision. It’s just too much of a difference in efficacy to take that distinction lightly.
emeralds
He’s willing to get married at a courthouse now? He refers to you as his fiancee to his family and talks about how you’re going to get married?
Sorry but basically, the only holdup I’m seeing to the two of your getting married is your desire for a big, fancy, traditional wedding in 2014. I appreciate that this is a difficult issue, with a lot of emotions tied up into it–but for me, a big part of adulthood is realizing that you don’t always get everything that you want, the way that you want it.
anon
I agree that something in OP’s story doesn’t compute. If the relationship is rock solid — there are no questions about BF’s commitment to marriage or desire for children — why would it be so difficult to just set a date? Why would BF hold out for a traditional proposal at the time of his choosing when this is obviously causing OP so much anxiety (and for good reason given the immediacy of fertility issues).
NancyNonymous
Rewording to avoid moderation!
I appreciate what you’re saying, but we’ve already talked that all out. He’s 100% committed to me and to us getting married. He’s very much a man of his word and he wouldn’t make promises he didn’t intend to keep. He’s just also way more laid back about this than I am–he’d love to just get started TTC right now and worry about a wedding later. He’s also offered to go do it at the courthouse before we do any of this. There are some other external factors that have made it a less-than-ideal time to get engaged (his sister’s engagement and some health issues I’ve had to deal with) but I know that he wants to marry me. I’ve even had to tell him to stop talking about it so openly with his family until it’s official.
But all that said, if we make three more months and we’re not engaged, I may reconsider the embryo decision. It’s just too much of a difference in efficacy to take that distinction lightly.
Anon
I don’t buy the external factors issue.
If now is the right time for you to get engaged, then it is – whether or not his sister recently got engaged should be a non-issue. It’s not like there is a limited amount of family happiness and she’s used it all up. Presumably, she is a grown-up and will be excited for her brother, as will the rest of his family.
Also, unless your health issue is that you are in a coma and therefore unable to actually accept a proposal, I don’t understand how any health issue would make it a less-than-ideal time to get engaged.
NancyNonymous
Agree to disagree, I suppose.
Cc
Agree. I think his excuses sound very odd. Also it’s weird that you are old fashioned enough that you want a surprise proposal but want to start trying for babies before getting married. You can be engaged without a ring. I think you need to see if he actually wants to set a date. It sounds like he does not
NancyNonymous
Ugh, whatever. This is what I deserve for posting in the first place. Haters gonna hate.
Sydney Bristow
Nobody is entirely consistent in their views and desires. It’s reasonable that someone wants a “traditional” proposal but is open to having children before marriage.
NOLA
Try not to take all of this personally. Some people here just automatically go to the negative or the “tough love” approach. Take the advice that makes sense to you and feel free to ignore what doesn’t. And good luck with whatever you decide.
Anon from 12:24pm
Not a hater, just someone questioning whether or not these are actual, insurmountable delays to getting engaged, or things that either (1) your BF is using as excuses or (2) you are worried will ruin your vision of the “perfect” time to be engaged.
Sometimes, people poking holes in my argument is exactly what I needed to help me get my head out of the sand and figure out what is really going on.
Blonde Lawyer
I can actually understand health issues getting in the way. I have recently been dealing with some of my own health issues and I’ve been pretty miserable, looking like crap, near tears frequently when home. Most people want their proposal to be a good time in their life. Not in between discussions about doctors, insurance and surgery.
Her boyfriend may want her to be on the upswing, able to enjoy a social function, not in sweatpants and tears when he proposes. I can understand that.
Blonde Lawyer
I have to add though – the proposal while in sweatpants and tears also would be really romantic too. It would show that he is there for the good times and the bad and thinks you are beautiful even if you think you are a mess.
NancyNonymous
@BlondeLawyer–that’s exactly it. It’s been a really rough few months for me physically (and thus emotionally) and now that the dust is starting to settle, I’m annoyed that we’re not engaged. But it’s not as if he hasn’t been with me 100% of the way through the health stuff–you can bet I appreciate his being with me at the hospital more than I’d have appreciated him being out ring shopping then.
Thanks for helping me put it back in perspective–anxiety is a b1tch!
Cc
Excuse me? Providing you with my opinion makes me a hater? You seem way overly sensitive. Nothing about my post was “hating” just tht I think you both need to talk more about what you actually want. No need to be rude
Brant
If I were in y’alls situation, given the fertility, your desire to marry before TTC, the family weddings, etc., I’d just do a courthouse wedding with close family. You miss out on the party, but you get the marriage. Spend the extra money on (1) a bada$$ ring (2) fertility treatment (3) house downpayment (if that applies to you) in a neighborhood with good schools for the kids (4) a 1-year or 5-year anniversary party
You can always do the “party” later– we have had several of these in our circle for various reasons. One was an immigration issue- marry now, plan the party for a year later. One was an american marrying a foreginer so they did the legal wedding in teh US with a small family dinner, then the big party in teh bride’s home country several months later. We also had friends that didn’t want to “deal with the wedding [party]”, and just went to the courthouse. We got an invite to their 5 year anniversary party last week, which is very weddinglike in terms of scope and formality.
NancyNonymous
Great ideas, thank you! I’ve also been thinking of just getting married when the baby is a year old–assuming we’re lucky enough to be able to have one.
Sydney Bristow
Wedding planning might depend a bit on where you are. I’m planning a similar-sized wedding in the Pacific Northwest and there are still a ton of options available for this summer and fall. Anecdata, but a friend of mine planned a slightly smaller wedding in the Bay Area in about 4 months and it turned out completely amazing.
Killer Kitten Heels
I don’t know if this is true everywhere, but in my area, people book weddings so far in advance (12-18 months or more) that you can usually score really, really good deals if you’re willing to book on 3-6 months notice, because you’re taking a date that, from the venue’s perspective, is otherwise highly likely to remain unused.
The only issue I could see is with vendors – you probably won’t have the same range of selection for photographers, videographers, etc. because many may already be booked. That said, unless you’re in a really remote area where options are extremely limited, you should be able to find *someone* for all of these tasks. Your dress selection might also be limited (0r more expensive because you’d need a rush order).
If you are going to book on short notice, make sure you start with whatever’s most important to you – you don’t want to get into a situation where you’re in contract with a catering hall, only to discover that your childhood church where you always dreamed of getting married isn’t available on that day.
Last piece: Do you *need* to get married before TTC? A friend of mine has been with someone for awhile (they just moved in together), and they decided to TTC without worrying about getting married, because they’re facing some of the issues you describe. She’s pregnant now, and while she had to field a few “was this an oops?” questions when she first announced from family and close friends, everyone who loves her is far too “yay baby!” to care much about the marriage thing.
Anne Shirley
Have you told him all this? If you’re going to make embryos with him you should be able to say “I want to get married this year. Because of x, y, and z that would mean starting to plan by February. I don’t want to rush you into this, but I do want to know what your timeline is.”
You’re not ruining an imminent proposal by having an upfront conversation, you’re building a healthy marriage.
NancyNonymous
I agree 100%. We’ve had this conversation several times–admittedly, nearly all of those “several times” have been in the past three weeks. I have a strong suspicion (based on some things he’s said) that he’s already picked out a ring and is waiting for it to come in and/or for the right time, but I worry that I’m wrong.
He’s said that he thinks we can make it work out for this year if we want to, but he’d also be fine with TTC first and getting married afterward so as not to rush the wedding itself. He also made it clear that he’s planning to do it “soon” but is worried that all of my anxiety is going to put a damper on it all.
I said this elsewhere, but I’ve had some recent health issues/surgeries that have made it less than an ideal time to propose (though he’s been a complete saint during this stuff) so that may be contributing but I’m suddenly in a panic about the timing.
Em
I feel like you both are really invested in everything being perfect, to the point where you’re making it the enemy of the good. He’s not proposing because you’re too anxious about him proposing and health issues and his sister. You’re not proposing because the man should propose. You need to do it soon so the right wedding venue is available, so you can have the right number of people, in the right time frame, before you become pregnant, so you’re not nauseous or showing at the wedding.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with any of those things, but most people don’t have all of them, and you might be in a situation where backing away from the ideal will serve you well.
Sydney Bristow
This is what I’m thinking as well. I completely understand wanting those things and even the surprise you may feel at wanting them. My sister got engaged a few months before me and I was surprised at my reaction when I was nervous that my boyfriend might propose around the same time and how it would feel to possibly be engaged at the same time. All the wedding stuff seems to bring up desires that you’d never really considered before that may be inconvenient or surprising to you. I’m experiencing a lot of that right now and finding it difficult to navigate. I’m trying to let go of some of these “perfect” things and focusing on a few things we both find truly important. It’s hard and feels weird sometimes. Don’t feel bad that your desires and reality aren’t matching up like you’d hoped. Try to take Em’s advice and back away from some of that.
NancyNonymous
Em and Sydney both hit the nail on the head–I do see that. It’s been really surprising to me that I even care about any of this. Part of it might be that I’m getting married a bit older than most of my friends and this plays into earlier fears that I would never get my “turn.” Which is dumb.
If I’m being honest with myself, I think it probably has more to do with feeling like I don’t have any control over major things right now (health issues, fertility issues, and this–the wedding part being the only thing I can *sort of* control).
Thanks, all!
Marilla
I think Em’s comment hits the nail on the head.
Baconpancakes
I don’t really have any advice, but you have my sympathy. I’m thinking about freezing eggs now, before it even becomes a problem, since I honestly have no idea whether I’m going to get married before my fertility starts to decline, and I’m not ready to raise a child by myself. I’ve considered having a donor and raising a child by myself, once I’m at a point where I can comfortably support a child and pay for the conveniences that make single motherhood seem less insane (cleaning services, reliable child care, healthy pre-cooked meals, laundry services, lots of taxis), but I understand the fear of losing fertility before you’re ready/able to have children. It’s terrifying. Hugs.
NancyNonymous
Thanks so much–happy to discuss the freezing process with you. I’ve learned SO much about it in the past few months. It’s really not as bad as it seems–and you may find that your insurance would cover the cost of the drugs. Post an email if you want and I’ll connect with you!
Baconpancakes
Oh, thank you. It’s more a casual consideration right now, but I’d love to hear about it. My email is baconr e tt e @gmail.com, sans spaces.
anon
My sister got married in DC on Saturday afternoon 5 months after she got engaged. I think there were 160 guests? Church wedding, somewhat nontraditional reception venue, but with all the normal wedding stuff (fancy linens, bartenders, nice buffet).
For an alternative, my husband and I put down a deposit on our wedding venue before we were “officially” engaged. We talked about marriage, talked about exactly when we wanted to get married, and knew the type of venue we wanted would be in short supply so we just went ahead and booked a venue we loved and my husband said he’d like to “officially” propose at a later date (which he did and it was great). For me it was wonderful because I felt like we had a calm, rational conversation in which we decided we wanted to marry each other but I also got a surprise proposal.
Anon
This reminded me of Friends where Monica books that venue and they call and Chandler answers!
TBK
Honestly? I feel like something has to give here. I really, really do get that marriage (including proposal, engagement, wedding) and baby are major life events and that it just feels so unfair to have to compromise on what should be very reasonable wishes (you’re not bummed because you want to have a 1,000 person wedding on a private island at exactly the vernal equinox, for example). But I think it’s your desire to have every single one of these things fall into place just right that’s causing the anxiety, *especially* because almost none of it is in your control. So I see the following wants and wishes on your part: (1) a baby with the option of a second down the road; (2) being married to your boyfriend; (3) having a traditional wedding; (4) getting married before TTC; (5) having a wedding date that doesn’t put too much stress on family; (6) having your boyfriend propose to you; (7) having that proposal be a surprise; (8) having the proposal and/or the early engagement follow a specific course of events (I’m not clear on what these are, but since you mention that health issues have gotten in the way, I’m guessing you want either the proposal location to be something you haven’t been able to do lately, or you want to be able to celebrate with friends and family, or something else that your health has prevented); (9) having the wedding this year but still having #s 3, 4, and 5. There are a few items on this list that, if you let go of them, make all the others much more likely to happen just as you want, without the anxiety. Obviously if you took babies off the table, everything’s fine. But my guess is that’s one of the most important items on the list. So what’s the least important? Or what are the two or three least important? If you know you can get everything else on the list if you take off the two or so least important to you, it seems like that would take away the anxiety while also giving you a better shot at the things you really, really want. Not to say it’s fair you have to do this. But that’s life. I think by the time we’re 35, most of us have given up some things we really wanted (and that were totally fair to want) to have the things that we wanted more.
Anon
In case anyone was wondering how TBK is passing the time while on bedrest – she is busy speaking the truth.
MU JD
+1
I agree wholeheartedly with TBK. As someone who battled infertility for almost 10 years, I feel your pain and I am sending you lots of well wishes.
NancyNonymous
Thanks, TBK, I agree that something’s got to give. It’s been hard because the fertility picture is an ever-changing target (i.e. at first they said I would have a few years, then they said much less, now new information is making it look a bit more flexible but I’m still concerned).
The health issues were sudden, serious, and unexpected–but look as though they’re going to be resolved in the next few weeks. My boyfriend’s basically said that he wasn’t going to propose while I was unexpectedly in the hospital and now I get the sense that he wants to wait until my surgery is over (but the date hasn’t even been set yet).
But yes, something’s got to give. Maybe this is just me coming to terms with it. But the Type A person in me wants to just take the reins and plan everything asap.
rosie
Can you agree with your boyfriend that you are engaged with a “surprise” proposal to come soon but at a time of his choosing? Then you could start wedding planning. Does he know that having a larger wedding is important to you? Does he understand how long you feel you need to plan?
zora
Yes, I also think TBK speaks the truth. It also sounds like you are in an anxiety spiral, I know how hard those are I get in them myself. It’s not fun! But you might try just forcing yourself to break from the spiral. You’ve been dealing with A LOT. It might work for me to give myself a set amount of time to just let everything go and focus on the moment and know that I will come back to the problem-solving at that point. Like 2 weeks. Or one month. (that might be too long, maybe two weeks is better) .. But set an actual Date on the calendar that you will get back to this. Then set up some fun/relaxing things with your BF that you like to do together, be cozy and pamper yourself and everytime you find yourself starting to worry, just gently remind yourself: Not till February 1st. I won’t worry about this till Feb 1st, we’ll figure it out then.
Then, maybe when you come back to it it will be easier to sort through the priorities like TBK listed above, because you won’t be so caught in that spiral.
Just a thought. Either way, TRY to calm down a bit and give yourself a break. Even if it’s just for one night. You have a lot of tough things happening, and it’s NOT fair that it is so hard, so be kind to yourself. And come back here whenever you need Internet Hugs and sympathy!!
NancyNonymous
Thanks so much–this is so sweet and you’re totally right. I’m in a complete anxiety spiral. This is such the perfect storm for that–major life priorities at risk, limited time frame to deal with them, things happening outside of my control!
Note to self: take bubble bath with glass of red wine tonight!
Noelle
As someone who struggled mightily with fertility issues (and who was initially told that my situation was not “so bad,” but after further investigation, ended up in spot where it’s almost miraculous that I’m now 36 weeks pregnant) — all I will add to the already sage advice offered by TBK and Em is that if you really want to have biological children, starting the TTC process ASAP has to be the priority.
My husband sort of, kind of dragged his feet about proposing — not because he didn’t want to marry me, but because he didn’t want our lives to be consumed by the wedding planning process (i.e., he was trying to delay what he believed to be the inevitable stress of full-on party planning). After we got married — and as we were going through our umpteenth round of fertility treatments — he admitted that he felt badly about waiting that extra 6-12 months to propose because, he had convinced himself, if we had started TTC 6-12 months earlier, my fertility situation might not have been so dire. We’ll never know if that 6-12 months really would have made a difference in my ability to get pregnant, but the TTC process is fraught with so much emotion/anxiety already, you really don’t want to pile on more regrets, feelings, guilt, etc.
And FWIW — we planned a 100-person wedding in a major metropolitan area in 6 months. We got married on a Sunday and we had to accept the fact that some out-of-towners couldn’t be there on such (relatively) short notice. But we had a lovely, traditional wedding (which actually wasn’t as stressful to plan as my husband had feared).
Good luck with your decisions!
NancyNonymous
Thanks for sharing your experience. I think I need to regroup and think a bit about what matters the most. It’s just so hard when you’re dealing in probabilities–i.e. it’s hard to let go of the idea of a traditional wedding so that you can TTC when you may have time for both. In some ways, it was easier when it seemed like I didn’t have much of a choice.
Anon
I might be too late to offer much, and much has already been said that is worth pondering, but I just wanted to say that you can totally pull off a full-on wedding in short notice even with pregnancy in the mix. I joke that we pursued a “parallel paths” approach: got engaged and then started TTC (it made sense for timing-professional reasons to have a baby in a certain window, but not outside that limited timeframe). I think my mom freaked out that we would barrel on with the kid path and forget the wedding path and just end up eloping/doing a courthouse wedding (which would have been totally awesome and fine, btw) (and her fears may also have to do with the fact I’m her only daughter)…so she convinced me to plan a (shotgun) wedding.
Started planning in mid-September, got married in early January. Of course one week after I put a nonrefundable deposit on a fitted wedding dress down, we learned I was pregnant. I was four months preggers to the day at my wedding. And everything ended up great–we had a 140+ person Saturday night formal event in an East Coast city. We got discounts and had no competition for stuff because early/mid January is such an odd time to get hitched; after securing the venue, caterer, and band, I didn’t have to worry about much beyond dress fittings. And because I had so much else going on, and frankly there wasn’t time for it, I didn’t sweat the details on the wedding (no stressing about colors, etc.). In hindsight, I think that if I’d spent a year obsessively planning the wedding I’d be super bummed if everything didn’t go off perfectly, but because I had a crazy professional year going on already, plus was pregnant, planning a wedding was comparatively fun.
I guess what I’m saying is, it felt a little bananas at the time but everything worked out. We didn’t think all that much about everything other than whether we could pull it all off logistically (I mean, we already had known for a long time that we wanted kids and we wanted to be married). Sure, it would have been nice to been a little more svelte on my big day, and I would have like to drink more than a small glass of champagne, but I had a great time at my wedding apart from those teeny, tiny things.
Sorry for the novel, but what I’m saying is basically: carpe diem. Letting go of visions of perfection is great preparation for having kids, I can now fully attest. Life is messy and not perfect even under the best of circumstances, but happy weddings and wanted babies are some of the best stuff out there. Several years down the road, I look back at that whole crazy wedding/kid thing with nothing but fond memories and no regrets.
NancyNonymous
Thank you for this comment–I love it. I suspect that this is the route that we’ll ultimately take. You make it sound do-able and fun! So glad it’s worked out well for you!
Anon
More than welcome! Best of luck with everything. And I hear you–sometimes latching onto the one thing you feel in control of is its own kind of processing/coping mechanism. Deep breaths, and extra good luck for the surgery.
Anon for this
Yes you can plan a wedding for this year! I know a couple who decided to get married because they discovered they were having a baby. Discovered in April/May. Found a venue for Friday, July 13, at a really really nice venue in the NYC area, and he proposed on a trip to China sometime in May/June. Because they had 2 months notice and were okay getting married on Friday the 13th, they got the venue for super cheap. The guests were either local or elderly so it was fine. The bride wasn’t feeling well for parts of it, but they did the couples dance and otherwise went all out.
Also, while it’s “nice” to spread out weddings to relieve family of the financial burdens, I really don’t think it matters in the scope of all the other more important things you’ve identified.
Carly
Job hunt question: any suggestions for an appropriate writing sample (mid-level associate, going from one big law firm to another)? Most motions I have worked on have been collaborative efforts, so not solely my own writing, and so riddled with client info they would have to be heavily redacted. Memos? Help! Thanks!
ABC
I could use some advice on this same topic!
Pippit
I’d use a memo. If you can point to a section of a motion as being your work, you could also break out that section. You just want something that shows you can write, illustrates your thought process, and which you can represent is your own work. If you break out a section of a motion, make sure the reader has enough information for the section to make sense on its own, though.
Amelia Bedelia
I used a substantive memo to a partner, with client info redacted. It was at least ten pages, and worked well for me. Make sure you use your draft to partner, and not eventual draft delivered to client (if this was the case).
Susedna
Just zeroing in on your comment that your guy tends to move slowly on things. Are they big life-changing things or is he a slow, cautious mover on *everything*? If it’s the latter, it might be worth it to discuss and for both of you to try to make some compromise.
Marriage and raising a child/children are filled with deadlines and crap that needs to get taken care of, some quite promptly. Foot-dragging and philosophizing is great for certain things (deciding whether you want your child to be part of a religion), but not great if the washing machine’s broken and you’ve got a 1-week old newborn.
In which case, you may need to accept that on big honking lifechange decisions, he may move slower than you’d like and he needs to hurry the f up and make a decision and execute on lesser_life impact stuff.
NancyNonymous
He is slow with EVERYTHING. It’s the only thing we ever fight about. It’s not terrible enough to be a dealbreaker, but we couldn’t be more different when it comes to this. My philosophy is “figure out what you’ve got to do and then do it” so I don’t tend to take long with decisions. He’s getting better, but it’s definitely a thing for him. It takes forever to pick out furniture, restaurants, etc–but he’s very willing to do what I want him to do when I say so, I just don’t want to do that for something like getting engaged.
I will say, he’s making an effort and he’s gotten much better about it in recent months, but we’re still trying to figure out what to get his mother for Christmas so there you have it!
Susedna
Sorry my post ended up in the wrong spot. I got one of those snarky “posting too fast. Slow down” errors. (Amazing that an auto-generated error msg can be so condescending). And of course, reposting it without re-clicking the “Reply” link on your original post sent my reply to the wrong place.
I hear your frustration and I sympathize. I’m also glad it’s not a dealbreaker. I agree that because of the emotional significance of the proposal to him and to you, it’s not something that can be solved by your proposing to him. But I agree with the other posters who say to clue him in on the timeline you’re facing w.r.t. Fertility.
As for things like Xmas presents to his family; I’m a firm believer that women do ourselves no favors when we get roped into (or volunteer) to be the social secretary for your SO w.r.t. His family and friends that are morre “his.” (Have a much closer relationship to him.). I think our SOs and DHs and such need to take full responsibility for that. So if they run out of time, yup, egg on his face for not getting his mom something. We should resist the urge to scramble and kill ourselves to find him a last minute gift. People must face consequences or they have no incentive to fix their behaviour. My FIL never bothers to remember how long to bake a fricking potato bc my MIL hovers over him like a Codependent (heli)Copter. Why should he remember if she’ll constantly remind him?
NancyNonymous
I agree…and yet am totally guilty of generally stepping in to fill the gap. I’m pledging to stop.
He knows the timeline. I just think he underestimates how few venues we’ll have to choose from or how much planning is involved. He’s as chill as I am anxious when it comes to this stuff.
Diana Barry
Another thought: my mom started planning their wedding before my dad got around to proposing. It’s OK! :)
Anon
Ha! My DH must be your BF’s psychic twin. DH claims it took him 100 hours to pick out my engagement ring. It also took him a year to propose because he had it in his head that he wanted to do it while we were on an exotic vacation and I had just started a job and couldn’t take a vacation. Meanwhile, I would have been happy with a ring from a toystore. And think it’s the fact that it’s a proposal that makes it romantic, not the location it’s made in. I wasnt even convinced that a proposal wasn’t a little too old school for feminist me.
NancyNonymous
Haha, any advice for the future? :)
pickle
I had to set the following proposal criteria: 1) someplace pretty, 2) not surrounded by other people (no restaurants), 3) not in our pyjamas (must look and feel presentable). Otherwise, uncomplicated. It was still a surprise!
Amelia Pond
I’m curious how others organize their research when working on a big project. I am starting to work on my journal comment and realize that what I have done in the past to organize my research (both at my summer job and for past school assignments) has not been working. Usually I attempt to put research in a binder to keep it organized and take notes on the article itself before writing up an outline. But what inevitably happens is that I end up with a big stack of cases and am completely unable to find what I am looking for either in the notes or even the case.
So my question is: what do you do to keep things organized to make the writing process easier?
Cb
How are you about reading on screen or do you have a tablet? I annotate docs through GoodReader on my ipad and type up the notes in Evernote (I love this, use this!). When I’m at the writing stage (8,000-10,000 word articles or chapters), I move my notes to Scrivener and start writing from there.
Sydney Bristow
I’ve started using index cards similar to what authors Ryan Holiday and Robert Greene do. I do it in physical form but I think you could use Scrivner in a similar way if you want to do it digitally. I’ll link below but if it doesn’t show up you can go to the Thought Catalog website and search for Ryan Holiday. He explains his system in a post called The Notecard System. It’s pretty useful to organize and reorganize ideas as you go along and you can get as intricate as you want with categories, color coding, etc.
Sydney Bristow
Here is that post. http://thoughtcatalog.com/ryan-holiday/2013/12/the-notecard-system-the-key-for-remembering-organizing-and-using-everything-you-read/
Clementine
I tend to create a spreadsheet directory that I put specific information into and then also have links to the documents (I am a huge fan of saving PDF’s whenever possible- really good to find things quickly).
I put summaries and key notes in there so I know what I liked about each article. Not full summaries but I will say key things like ‘outlines key principle x backed up by a, b, and c- good section on y’
…This hasn’t been for law but has been for some pretty heavy duty research and projects. I started doing this after realizing that I had read the same article 3 times as it came up multiple times in searches and was also handed to me by my supervisor in paper form.
Anonymous
if you’re doing a lot of web-based research Zotero is great because it saves a screenshot of the website which you can then highlight the text of. It’s pdf compatibility is a little more wonky though and I’ve still struggled with that. Good Reads is good for highlighting/annotating, but at least on my ipad, you can’t copy and past text for quotes.
IT Chick in MN
I’ll second the Zotero recommendation. It got me through all of my master’s degree (technical writing). I mostly used Zotero to track my sources, and then used OneNote to take my notes with references to specfic sources. Most of the time, I had a top/bolded line that identified my source and all my notes underneath that.
Sarabeth
This may or may not be overkill (I’m an academic currently finishing up a book-length project), but here’s my system. I use Mendeley (equivalent to Zotero) to save/organize articles, pdfs, and citations. I use Eaglefiler for my own notes, including notes on articles and pdfs – again, there are several similar products, including Evernote (which has more features than I want or need, but many people love). Then I organize my actual writing in Scrivener, which allows me to easily move around chunks of writing within the overall document.
Sadie
I use the same method as the op. Large stacks of paper with notes all over it. I tried to change it once to be more organized and the response on that paper was “whatever you did here, don’t do it again, this wasn’t as good as your stuff usually is”
So now I just figure…it ain’t broke. Not fix in it!
Boden
TJ – I have never shopped with Boden before – how does its sizing compare to US retail sizing? For context, I’m a M/MP on the top at Banana, Loft/Ann Taylor, Limited, etc. and a 12/14 on the bottom at these stores. I’m a pear-ish shape with a leftover tummy from my pregnancy. Should I size up or down with Boden?
Thank you so much!
PolyD
I find that their sizes run fairly close to Banana and Loft, maybe a bit smaller, but the general fit seems to be for people a little bustier on top and a little more narrow through the hips. On the website, you should be able to find garment measurements – so, measure the waist of a skirt that fits you and see how it matches up to the waist measurement of the skirt on the Boden site.
For reference, I’m usually a small/2/4 at Loft, for Boden I take a 4 in dresses and tops (tops tend to be on the boxy side), but a 6 in skirts, especially the more straight-cut skirts. Haven’t tried their pants.
Susedna
Pears tend to have a hard time with Boden, which seems to be more suited to Apple or very straight (noodle) shapes. I have a separate problem : long waist, short legs. Boden is about high and short waists so the waistbands of all their dresses are either at my ribs or worse: almost at the underb**b.
Anon
It’s pretty spot-on their size chart. I think they post measurements for all their stuff. Use your biggest measurement and order that size – like if your hip measurement says you’re an 8 and your waist says 6, get the 8.
Germs
Just want to thank everyone for the rec yesterday. No luck yet but I’m going to make sure I find someone
Anon
Does anyone have any recommendations for setting up a meal delivery service for a new mom? We’re specifically looking for something where people can just donate money and the company will deliver meals to the family. TIA.
kjoirishlastname
You can try takethemameal dot com. It has options for both sending meals, but also organizing folks to get on a calendar to deliver home-cooked food. We used this when my friend passed away suddenly, leaving a husband and 2 small children. We got them set up for like 6 weeks.
Sandy Bullock
Ladies, help: I’m not interested in dating right now. I’ve only been single for 6-7 months, so I’m comfortable with the idea of still needing time to myself. I do worry that taking myself off the market will make it more difficult to jump back into dating when I am ready. I’m only 27, and while I rationally know that I’m young and have plenty of time to find someone, I do worry (irrationally) that I’m running out of time. Please reassure me that I’m doing the right thing by not forcing myself to date now – or alternatively that I need to get out there!
Anon
Why would taking yourself off the market make it more difficult to date later? I don’t get it.
Anonymous
Yeah this is weird. Its not a resume… no one will even know you took a break
tesyaa
Maybe the “harder to get back into it later” comment is more from her end, not from the POV of prospective dates. Like, if you stop going to the gym for a year, you might have a hard time getting back into it, or might just not even want to bother.
Sandy Bullock
This is it! Sorry that I wasn’t clear before.
Mpls
Do you want to date? No? Then don’t.
Go out, be social, meet people – but you don’t have to do it with an eye towards dating. You can just meet people to meet people.
The benefit is you have that social circle to get the message out when you are ready to start dating again.
Ellie
Yes, I agree. I don’t think much good will come out for dating when you don’t really feel you want to do it. And I think, you should feel free to decide yourself when you want to date someone again, and when you need the time for yourself, rather than having other people or some other feelings (aka “If you don’t find someone now, you will be too old!”) decide that for you. You are never “too old” for that.
Sydney Bristow
I was single for a long time and I can honestly say that I found dating to be much better once I really knew who I was and what I wanted. I was beginning to think that I’d never want to jump back in, but I really did realize (sort of almost a sudden) that I wanted to start dating again.
Take the time for yourself! Learn about yourself! Explore things you want to do! Dating will always be there when you want to go back to it.
hoola hoopa
+1
Mpls
This – Date yourself for a while. Meet yourself and see what kind of person you are without somebody else’s needs to consider.
Batgirl
All I would add to all the great comments here is that while you should feel completely free to not date for however long you like, it might be good to try to stay open to new people you meet. Even if it’s the wrong time, you may find that it will be the right time soon enough and you’ll wish that you’d kept in touch with someone you’ve met. Good luck!
IT Chick in MN
Getting comfortable in your own skin and with your life will make you much more attractive when you’re ready. Living your life on your own terms will also increase the chances that you’ll meet someone who will fit into and complement that life.
Sandy Bullock
This is just what I needed to see. Thanks to all.
Baby DC Attorney
I love this, but what could you wear over it to make it office-appropriate? I don’t know that a blazer would look right over it…
Anon
I think this is what Angelina Jolie’s character in Hackers would consider business casual…
Susedna
LOL. For the record, I loved that movie, its soundtrack, and the kimono-shaped dress she wore when she jumped into the pool at the end. :-)
Anon
Me too :)
Vent
A co-worker who has been here since October recently screwed up a task I had shown him how to do at least three times (and I’m always available for questions) and then said “I didn’t know I was supposed to do that.” It’s okay to make mistakes – it’s not okay to imply that someone else didn’t show you how to do the task properly. I had to bite my tongue from pointing out I had shown it to him multiple times.
Ugh. Vent over.
Orangerie
Why didn’t you point it out? Sounds like he was trying to throw you under the bus – might as well beat him at his own game.
I deal with someone like this on a daily basis and make sure to CYA no matter what. Every email in which I provide him instructions gets filed away so that I have a record of showing him how to do something properly, should he ever try to say otherwise.
vented
That’s a bummer. I hate when that happens. But, you can stick it to him later when the same task comes up, and you can say, “Oh, you know how to do it–remember when I showed it to you, including this part?”
I am currently writing a report that includes something that my coworker should be giving me, but I know that she won’t do it a) well enough, or b) by my deadline. So, I’m going to do it myself.
Vent
That’s how I phrased it “oh, they’re talking about that one section. Remember when I was showing you how to do that and you always have to be careful to…” I just didn’t point out that I had shown him more than once. I have no idea if he responded (via e-mail) to the person who reprimanded him with “oh well she didn’t show me that part.”
IT Chick in MN
Good choice on that – it can be SO frustrating. On the upside, now that you know he’ll do things like this, you can start following up with written summations/instructions. It will make it easier to head him off. Additionally, some people just do better with written instructions. I had a recent team member who could not retain anything you told him verbally. Once I started following up in writing, his compliance improved markedly.
Anon
Hello ladies,
I need some suggestions about how to deal with a situation that is freaking me out completely.
I am an Indian living in US. I live with my husband. My mother will be visiting us for four months starting next week. I really wanted to get both my parents here but my father still works and he cannot come.
I am very close with my mother and she has stood by me during very difficult times of my life. If I were single, I would have never worried about her visiting me even for a second. But I don’t know how the dynamics will be because my husband is in picture now.
Specifically, I am worried because my mother is a very ambitious person and she looks down upon people who are not so ambitious and risk averse. The problem is she feels my husband is not very ambitious. Though she doesn’t say it explicitly, I have noticed it in the way she talks. She also feels that my father was not ambitious. My parents didn’t have a very good relationship partly because of this feeling she harboured. I don’t want her attitude to impact the relationship between me and my husband. She may not tell it to me on my face, but if she keeps pointing that out indirectly, I may start feeling it too and start resenting my husband. Me and my husband have a very good relationship even if we differ the way we save money and invest (this is where my mother feels he is not ambitious as he spends money on his parents and some other close family members). He is a different person than me, comes from a very different background and has his own priorities. But he never stops me from what I want to do, generally very co-operative with my career goals and very caring person (I really like the way he is towards his nephews and nieces, his friends etc). I am thinking about this from sometime and I don’t know how to deal with this.
anon
Well, if you feel your relationship with her is good, then she should be able to take some guidelines from you. She is to be living in YOUR house, with YOUR rules.
If I were you, I would tell her that no belittling, prodding, jeering, or whatever is to be tolerated. Your relationship between you and your husband is just that–between the two of you, and you won’t tolerate any nastiness from her end. She can harbor all the feelings she wants, but while she is living with you (and beyond, really), she is not to make any kind of remark about your relationship or your husband, and her perception of his “laziness” or his lack of initiative.
Tell her that it is a boon for her that she is so ambitious–not many women are like that, and in her generation, probably not many from her culture. That’s saying a lot. But, it isn’t the way that everyone is wired. Success is measured in different ways–your husband chooses to foster a relationship with his nieces and nephews instead of whatever it is that she thinks he should be doing.
She may need a reminder that while she is your mother, in this scenario, she’s not your “mom”. She’s a guest living in your house, and she should treat you, her hosts, with the equal respect that she would if she were staying with a stranger, or a friend. Just because you are her daughter does not give her any justification to meddle in every aspect of your life. You love your husband for your own reasons, and your mother’s opinion shouldn’t color that for you. If you find that she isn’t abiding by your rules and is making pokes and prods here and there, just tell her to STFU. In not so many words.
I should really be saying this to my own mother.
Good luck, as much as I love my mom, I don’t wish a 4-month visit with her on anyone.
Woods-comma-Elle
Before I get into my thoughts in any great detail, I would caveat it by saying that I am from a different culture than you and I appreciate that, culturally, there may be differences in how it would be appropriate to deal with the situation. As such, I also apologise in advance if I inadvertently cause any offence!
The thing that stood out to me was this “She may not tell it to me on my face, but if she keeps pointing that out indirectly, I may start feeling it too and start resenting my husband.” It would seem to me that, if you and your husband have a good relationship, this shouldn’t matter. Assuming you selected your husband (rather than that you were introduced), then this decision was yours to make knowing what kind of man he is. If it is not appropriate for you to mention to your mother that you feel this way, then assuming you are comfortable in your relationship with your husband, why should you care? If you care, then maybe you are not as comfortable as you think and that is a different issue that you need to come to terms with. Nobody is perfect – it ultimately becomes a case of what is more important. Is it more important that your husband is ambitious, or that he is a good husband and father, for example?
If it is a case of your husband noticing/being uncomfortable, then a conversation beforehand to say ‘look, my mum says XYZ because of this reason, I love you, don’t let it get to you’ is perhaps in order, so you can present a ‘united front’ so to speak.
BB
While I agree with most of your points, I don’t think it’s okay for her to just say “Hey, when my mom says incredibly hurtful, snide things, it’s just the way she is. Don’t take it personally!” That’s very disrespectful of who her husband is, his values, and their relationship.
I am a firm believer that once you are married, you + husband (+ any kids) become your “top priority” family unit.
OP
I was introduced to my husband in US (he is an Indian too). We spoke and met often for 6 months before deciding whether to get married or not. we got married after 1.5 years of being introduced so had plenty of time to know him. I knew he had a different attitude towards money before I accepted the proposal. Though I was not 100% ok with that difference, I liked him too much to let this one difference to break us up. Even he is fully aware of the difference in attitude towards money between us. We both have worked and arrived at compromises and we have some boundaries between us around savings and we don’t cross that. When I see his family and the love they have for him and for me when I visit them, I don’t even feel that he is doing something wrong by spending money on them. Though, ideally it shouldn’t matter what she says, I am afraid that it may impact the way I think and breach the boundaries we have set. I care enough for our relationship to anticipate this problem and be proactive about finding a solution for this.
I will be talking to my husband tonight and tell him my concerns. I want to come to some kind of understanding about what not to talk in her presence, not allow any disagreements between me and my husband to surface in front of her so that she doesn’t get a chance to voice her opinions on the disagreements between me and husband etc. She will never say anything directly to my husband. She will say these things only to me. So, I will also have some positive statements ready to answer her when she has something negative to say about my husband or gently tell her how I am not liking the way she speaks about him.
BB
I just want to say that I so respect that you put aside the money concerns and saw all the good things in your husband. I also come from an Asian culture, and there’s often so much focus on how ambitious/rich/powerful/well-educated a potential husband is. It can be really difficult to feel like people are sneering at you because you somehow chose a “lesser” spouse. You made the right choice. You chose the good person over the ambitious person. Good for you for doing that, and good for you for recognizing the need to protect it.
IT Chick in MN
I think you have a good and workable plan. It’s going to be a challenge, but you have the marriage YOU want. Hang on to that. I come from a completely different culture, but ooooh I can relate to those “subtle” comments from a mother.
ChandraNH
I don’t understand why your mother knows how your husband spends his time/money. If you know that she is dismissive towards him, keep his business to yourself. Don’t share it with her.
If you feel as though you will begin taking on her attitude towards him, don’t have to stay for that length of time (I understand that may be difficult given your culture). your job is to protect your marriage from things that can damage it, including parents who have poor boundaries. Unless you would eventually like to be not married.
I agree with a poster, it’s not okay to ask your spouse to just say nothing or don’t take it personally. that is very disrespectful towards your spouse (and where does it stop) and towards you. She needs to be called out on her behavior.
Anonymous
My brother married a first generation Indian-American. Her parents live near us all and thankfully like him, but I know what you’re talking about. I’ve seen it in play with her cousins or their suitors/partners.
For the most part, I see them brace for it and let it be said and over with as soon as possible. That seems to work at family events, but I don’t know that it would work with her living with you for an extended period. Even if she just needs to get it out of her system once a week (which I doubt), it will wear on you (and him, if she says it in front of him). It may not change your opinion of him, but it will be stressful and exhausting.
Instead, I recommend that you use the same tactic to mention great things about him. I’ve seen this be successful. The wife of my SIL’s brother (not Indian/Asian, although interestingly also first-generation American) has consistently stayed on message and it really has shifted his parents’ viewpoint of his career and lifestyle from “harsh” to “usually neutral”. YMMV.
I assume your husband is already rather familiar with her push for ambition. If not, prepare him. I also highly recommend that you make sure that once a day you explicitly tell him that you love him just the way he is. It will be reassuring for both of you. If you are happy, don’t let her get inside your head.
GL!
Anon
I may be way off base here, but do you have brothers? Is your mother concerned about your husband’s level of ambition because she is nervous about who will take care of her (and at what level of material comfort) when/if she is widowed?
OP
I don’t have brothers. She is not worried about the material comfort for her at all as my parents have lots of resources to depend on in their old age. I don’t think they will ever be financially dependent on us. It is just that she is ambitious comes from a very poor family, she worked very hard, has sacrificed a lot and now is in a situation where my parents are very financially very secure . She expects every one to do the same and considers people who are not so ambitious (in her opinion) as somehow lesser and that is the problem.
Annon
I am Indian and living in the US, I can totally relate to this. This would be my mom if/when I get married to someone who is less than ideal in her eyes. I am still in the dating phase where no one is good enough for her (except the guys that she finds and who never call back). She always had massive fights with my father for not being ambitious enough and micromanaged his career. My only practical advice is if it is possible to reduce the amount of time she visits. I am ready to crawl the walls or sublet another place if my mom stays longer than 6 weeks in my tiny studio apartment controlling and critique-ing my every action as if I was still a baby. I know this is not a good Indian daughter behavior, but if it keeps peace with your husband so be it. Seriously though, you need to defend your husband 100% and tell your mom such comments are insulting, hurtful and she is not welcome to visit if this is how she feels about your husband. She needs to respect your life partner while she is living with you, that is non-negotiable.
chicago chic
Oh my goodness…. your mother stays in your studio apartment for 6 weeks? You are a saint…. and I am a bad daughter.
Just… never.
Samantha
You’ve got plenty of good advice, but just to reiterate some highlights:
1. You say you and your mom are very close. Sorry, but that sometimes comes at the expense of your relationship with your spouse. Don’t tell your mom everything about your husband, don’t relate to her every conversation you have with him, and definitely don’t mention financial situations and practices. If you have an argument with your husband, above all don’t go complain to your mom! Maybe you don’t do this, but I’ve seen it happen and it can be disastrous.If you have already, dial it back quickly so that the boundary lines are clear.
2. If your mom says anything belittling, or asks questions related to your husband’s finances/ambition, make it clear that you won’t be discussing those things with her and you don’t think she should be saying those things to you. “Don’t say bad things about my DH or his family to me, I don’t want to hear it and it’s hurtful to me.” I would even say the same for her comments about your dad.
3. Less important, but you can try emphasizing your husband’s good points occasionally to shift the focus and make her realize how great he is.
EB0220
Hair TJ – Does hair tend to get more coarse as you age? My hair used to be smooth and silky, even with plain old drugstore shampoo. In the last year or so (I’m now 32) it’s started to feel much more coarse. I was also diagnosed with hyperthyroidism (now under control), so I wonder if that has something to do with it. No matter what the cause, I think it’s time to step up my hair care regime. Any recommendations? I have thick, wavy hair.
jc
Are you taking medication for the thyroid problem? If so, that’s likely the cause. Your stylist will probably have some tips for dealing with that such as shampoos or conditioning treatments to help counteract the medicine’s effect.
EB0220
Yes, I am. Just looked up the side effects and hair whitening is one, too. Maybe that explains the new gray hairs I have started seeing!
jc
You can try taking the vitamin biotin which is for hair, skin and nails. I know this can counteract a lot of the problems with medication and hair thickness/texture. Good luck!
kjoirishlastname
Yes and no? I’ve experienced similar changes in my hair, but I attribute it to a host of things. I have hypo-thyroid (also under control), but I noticed the changes first, when I was pregnant–my hair was much curlier. It’s usually stick straight when dry, but if allowed to air dry, it definitely has a lot of wave. I had it cut like Meg Ryan, and it was definitely on the curlier/wavier side when it didn’t have all the weight that it has now (just past my shoulders).
That said, I’ve not colored it in over a year, and have been spacing trims out very far to get the most growth possible. My ends are definitely not in good order, “coarse” would be a good way to describe it, but otherwise, it’s straight, thick & fine. It does, however, hold curling-iron curl WAY better than it ever has.
So, maybe–especially with changes to hormones & age? I do know that coloring (not lightening/bleaching) can actually be good for your texture, because it coats each strand–so any fluffiness that you get from the cuticle being all frizzed up is smoothed by the deposit of color. If you don’t want to color, you could get a gloss, which, I understand would achieve the same effect.
EB0220
I am pregnant, too! It didn’t notice this in my first pregnancy, but I wasn’t on the thyroid meds then…hmm….
I have thought about coloring since I found a few gray strands, but may wait until post-baby! I’ve never colored my hair before, so I’m kind of nervous…but it looks like it’s getting to be that time.
GlobalEmily
I can’t say whether hair becomes more course with age, but I find applying a little Moroccan Argan Oil (as step 1 in my post-shower styling process) keeps my hair silky and smooth.
GlobalEmily
*coarse not course…is it 6 pm yet?