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Updated: Nov 1, 2018 86 Comments · by

Coffee Break: The Collector’s Box

Coffee Break

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Comments

  1. Held Back

    Big law ladies – I need a sanity check. I’m a midlevel associate. I didn’t make my hours this year and as a result was not promoted to the next salary level. My understanding is that this loss of a year is permanent, i.e. there’s no opportunity for me to be promoted twice next year, back to my original level, no matter how good my hours & work are. So the lost salary is not just the incremental loss this year but the incremental loss for all the years I’ll work here. I feel very ashamed about being “held back” even though it’s not really public information. I lost a class year when I lateraled to the firm several years ago, so my pay year is now 2 years behind my law school graduation year and I’m so embarrassed. It’s especially frustrating because my reviews have always been excellent and I’ve been told for the last couple of years that I’m working well above my level. What are the Hive’s thoughts? Is this kind of thing typical when you don’t make your hours? Should I count myself lucky to have a job and not be fired? Or I am justified in being upset?

    • Manhattanite

      By how much did you not make your hours? This sounds like a call for you to look for another firm. If you’re a mid level, don’t wait too long to lateral again.

      You are right to be upset. You are losing not just a bonus, but a pay raise.

    • Anonymous

      All of the above. Be upset. Count yourself lucky. Find a new job because you aren’t being successful where you are.

    • MollySolverson

      I would say a little bit of both. I understand being upset, especially if you are doing work that is appropriate for the level of your “true” year rather than your salary year. At the same time, you are extremely well compensated just by being in biglaw. And yes, other biglaw firms do this.

      I would also be concerned about your future at the firm. Having great reviews is a good sign, but in my experience, positive reviews generally translate to more billable work. If this is not happening for you (especially if other associates are busy), you might consider a lateral move if making partner or counsel is a goal, or if your firm has an aggressive “up or out” policy.

    • kc esq

      Eh, I get missing the money, but if this is something your firm does without signaling layoff, then you may count yourself lucky to have a little more time before you’re up for partner. Being a senior associate can be scary because you have to make the hours and demonstrate a capacity for business development. The overachiever in us wants the validation of moving up, but consider where that gets you.

    • Sacha

      My firm does this below a certain threshold, but there is a way to get “back on track.” Check your firm rules and if you are there next year, perhaps pose the question anyway, since exceptions can always be made.

    • Held Back

      Thanks for the comments so far. Some more background:
      My group was moderately busy this year but there was a slow period that killed me and some others. I think about 25% of the associates didn’t make their hours, so most people did, but I’m definitely not alone.
      I missed my hours by a pretty big margin – more than 100 hours but less than 200.
      I don’t really want to go into detail, but there’s an explanation for the lack of relationship between my hours and my work. I believe this has been largely sorted out and I will be very busy going forward. I am insanely busy at the moment. I definitely do not believe the fact that I’m in the bottom 25% hours-wise means I’m in the bottom 25% in terms of quality of work. I’ve been told by pretty much every partner I’ve worked with here that my work is excellent and my reviews reflect that as well.
      My firm is not very up or out. Nobody has indicated to me that this will affect my partnership chances. I know of a number of people who have been similarly held back, some for years on end, but ultimately made partner.

      • Manhattanite

        150 hrs isn’t that much. You might consider discussing your concerns about advancement with more senior associates. My old firm typically kept people as 8th yrs for years. And rarely took a lateral at their actual year.

      • anon

        not much advice but this is why I HATE biglaw. # of hours does not equal quality.

      • Anonymous

        I’m not a law firm lawyer. But if you are happy there, and you truly feel that you are achieving, stop counting years and shake it off. The ability to play the long game is a hallmark of a real professional. Later, your story of beating your own worries about failure will be powerful.

    • cbackson

      To be totally frank, I think it isn’t a great sign for your long-term future at your firm. My experience is that those viewed as high performers always get a raise (in biglaw, where annual raises are standard), unless there are across-the-board salary freezes or cuts. Unless your firm has a hard-and-fast policy that you can’t get a raise unless you made hours, yes, I would be concerned about what this means in terms of the firm’s perception of you.

      That said, I’ve worked at a firm where not making hours meant no promotion, and I’m not in disagreement with it, necessarily – we’re revenue generators, when it comes down to it.

      • MJ

        Yeah–this is a know-your-firm type situation, but in my experience, partners always tell associates they’re doing great, until they’re not (or the partners turn on someone). The point is, they are _showing_ you that they didn’t go to bat for you. 100 or so hours is not that many, particularly when the whole group was slow for a period. So if you like it there, stay, certainly. But don’t go around thinking that everyone loves you because they said so. Actual, true, criticism is very rare in biglaw, so be very guarded if you get any negative information at all (and not getting enough work to make your hours and then being told that someone didn’t go to bat for you–negative), unless, as CBackson said, your firm has a hard policy.

        I would interview just to see if you might be ready for a change. If you’re that awesome, another firm will want you and will keep you busy (if that’s how busy you want to be!).

  2. Anonymous

    Early threadjack –

    I will post this on the moms page too, but I’m posting here since there is more action – and pregnancy is not a prerequisite to suffering from this issue.

    Have any of you ladies ever tried the MuTu system to heal diastasis recti? My fourth kiddo is three months old and my core still feels incredibly weak. I came across the MuTu system (during a late-night BF session of course) and it looks really promising. Various blogs / online reviews are positive. Wondering if anyone has any real world experience with it? Or other suggestions to improve core weakness?

    • Anon

      Never been pregnant but I have found that just sitting on a stability ball (while working ect) kills my core and I do 2 intense core days a week at the gym. I am sure just sitting on a stability ball will do leaps and bounds for you.

      • layered bob

        You have to be careful with diastasis recti though – it’s not just “strengthen your core” – a lot of core exercises can make it worse. A friend had a bad diastasis after twins; she used and liked the Tupler Technique. I don’t know anything about MuTu.

  3. MuTu

    I will post this on the moms page too, but I’m posting here since there is more action – and pregnancy is not a prerequisite to suffering from this issue.

    Have any of you ladies ever tried the MuTu system to heal diastasis recti? My fourth kiddo is three months old and my core still feels incredibly weak (though I have improved from a four-finger wide gap to a two-finger one). I came across the MuTu system (during a late-night BF session of course) and it looks really promising. Various blogs / online reviews are positive. Wondering if anyone has any real world experience with it? Or other suggestions of ways to improve core weakness?

  4. anon for this

    Well ladies I decided I’m going to ask my husband for a separation. What should I think about / do before it happens? How should I protect myself when I do it? (I’m meeting with a lawyer before I do it.)

    • anon

      Make copies of all bank account statements, wills, tax returns, deeds, loan info, credit cards (front and back). Store this at work or at a friend’s/relative’s house. Have your employer change your direct deposit into a new, singular checking account to coincide with the day near to which you’ll announce. Also, change your beneficiary name through HR on policies.

      You should consult an attorney in your state, especially if you want to move some of your joint money to your separate account, and especially if you might have trouble making debt payments on your own without his salary. A lot of what you’ll do depends on who owns the real estate that you live in or whose name is on the lease, whether your money is comingled and if there is any chance you’ll be in danger after you ask for the separation. Good luck.

      Edited to add: saw that you added that you’re going to consult an attorney, so that’s good.

        • Meg Murry

          Then take your paperwork to your office.
          Are you asking him to leave your shared property, or are you leaving? If asking him to leave, have an appointment to have the locks changed ASAP.

        • Lyssa

          Just as an aside, unless you have a prenup, the fact that you don’t have shared finances doesn’t really change the fact that you have joint ownership of property gained since the marriage. It’s a lot more complicated than that, and you can discuss it with your attorney, but I just want you to know that just because an account has your name on it and not his, doesn’t necessarily mean that he has no ownership rights to it (and you to accounts with his name as well, of course). (It likely makes things simpler, though.)

          Good luck to you in this difficult time.

          • OP

            Thanks. I have $2k to my name, so I’m not really worried about him trying to reach it. He has a lot more to lose.

    • Anonymous

      Think about what the goal of the separation is. Are there specific things you want to do during that time to determine if you want a divorce? How long do you see this lasting? What is your plan for who lives where and how do you pay for that? Custody of pets? Counseling? Have you tried that already? Why not just go for divorce?

      You don’t need to tell him your answers, and I don’t think it’s reasonable to dictate all of the terms, but I think you should think these issues through.

      • OP

        Goal: he needs to stop treating me like scum. I don’t care where he goes, we’re living rent-free right now and the baby & I are staying put. We don’t have any pets. I have no interest in counseling; we tried that years ago and he basically got the therapist to say, “there there, you just have to put up with your crazy wife.”

        • Anonymous

          So, you just want a divorce then. Honestly a separation is just a holding step. Are you concerned for your safety? If so def call a woman’s shelter they have great advice. If not, think about where he will go. Do you need to pack a bag for him? Does he have the funds to book a hotel? Not because you care about him , but because physically he’s prob not just going to agree to leave and be homeless.

        • tesyaa

          Is the idea of separating to make him start treating you better? That seems unlikely to work.

          • Anon

            +1. If the separation is an attempt to call his bluff, then it isn’t going to work.

          • OP

            Honestly, I don’t expect it will work, but my heart hopes to be surprised. Regardless, it will be a step in the right direction (either he will start treating me better or he will already be out of the house so that he doesn’t hurt me more).

          • Senior Attorney

            Just a little “been there, done that” tale about him treating you better: I threatened to leave twice before I actually did it. Both times the former Mr. Senior Attorney straightened up and treated me better, just long enough for me to let my guard down and tell my lawyer I was going to try to make a go of it. Then he reverted back to his old ways as soon as he felt comfortable again.

            Just sayin’.

          • Wildkitten

            Remember – manipulative abusive dudes are really good at pretending to be nice in order to get you to let them back in to further manipulate and abuse you. Don’t be fooled into thinking that is a step in the right direction. If he has hurt you before, gtfo with yo baby and keep yourself safe. You go girl.

          • OP

            Thank you for the warnings ladies. In the event he wants to come back, I plan to tell him that he needs to work WITH (not against) a psychiatrist and therapist on a regular (weekly) basis to get his anxiety under control BEFORE he can come back.

          • Anonymous

            Ummm how about he does that work first. Before you consider taking him back. Not while he’s with you.

          • Wildkitten

            Oh hey Anonymous. This is the thread where are are supportive of AFL for taking such a brave step.

          • LawyrChk

            Anon’s advice was actually spot on. He needs to deal with the psych issues before you let him move back in. It’s awfully difficult to kick him out again after he’s moved back in and falls off the therapy wagon. He needs months of therapy and demonstrated results before you can even consider reconciling in these situations.

        • Anon

          If you are who I think you might be based on previous comments on this blog, I’m really proud of you for taking this step toward happiness. Good luck.

        • Ellen

          Fooey on men like this. HUG’s to you b/c this is a bad situeation. In time’s like this, I supose I am lucky that I never got married to Alan, b/c if I married any guy who turned out to be a doosh or a drunk or a drunk doosh who put me down, I would be in troubel b/c I would have already handed over all control over my finance’s to him. FOOEY ON THAT AND ON ME IF I DID MARRY ALAN.

          The other poster’s advice is great. I would ONLY add that you need NOT to let him control you in any way (mind control as well as physical). He will probably try to shame you into staying with him, but you should not let him. Also, tho probably needeless to say, do NOT have sex with him, no matter how much you like it with him, b/c that would be seen as giveing in to his demand’s.

          I wish you all the luck in the world, as does other’s in the HIVE. You will do better once you find a guy who appreciate’s you, not one who put’s you down. FOOEY ON MEN WHO DO THIS. FOOEY!

        • Wildkitten

          You should get therapy by yourself, for support and to talk through the situation, for you.

          • OP

            I’m on it. I’ve been to individual therapy 2x since starting my new job and I really like my therapist.

      • Must be Tuesday

        Custody and visitation arrangements – what would you ideally like, taking into account what your lawyer says are the options and common scenarios in your state.

        • My Stepkids' Mom

          Make sure your settlement has a specific custody arrangement (rather than just saying “joint custody”) or else you will spend the next 18 years fighting about what “joint custody” means. It may change as the baby ages, and I will post a link to a good guide. That includes who drives whom where and when. Exchanges on weekdays (one drops off at care/school and the other picks up) are best. If things are really bad, you can do exchanges at a police station. The more difficult the other person is, the more specific everything needs to be so there is no “wiggle room” for that person to take advantage of.

          Your agreement should also include something about:

          – kid’s healthcare (each parent share all information about insurance, health, name of MD)
          – college tuition and other expenses
          – holidays (best practice: make a list, split it equitably in two, alternate years)
          – vacations (give each other sufficient advance warning)

          • OP

            I want it to be simple: I never want him to see the baby again. (Obviously I need to figure this out with a lawyer.)

          • Anonymous

            I think this is overkill. She’s asking for a separation not negotiating a settlement.

            And, OP, unless there’s abuse, no judge is going to order sole custody with no visitation, so that’s something you need to make sure to get clarity on.

          • Blonde Lawyer

            OP, please also start mentally preparing for a Plan B on the custody piece. Unless he doesn’t want to see the baby again, this is a very hard and very expensive thing to win. I will leave the details to your lawyer but please keep an open mind if he/she tries to tell you that you have to come up with a way to co-parent.

            Kudos to you for taking this step and you are in my thoughts during this difficult time.

          • OP

            @ Blonde Lawyer and Anonymous, yes I am aware I will need to figure this out, and that I’m very unlikely to get what I want. (He constantly complains about having to “babysit” though!)

          • Senior Attorney

            The reality, though, is that when the child is very young at the time of separation, the non-custodial parent will often disappear from the child’s life. I have no opinion about whether that would be a good outcome in this particular case. But no matter how bad the absent parent is, it’s horribly hard on the child to be (from the child’s point of view) abandoned.

    • Pam

      Well…first of all, let me give a virtual hug and soft pat on the back to the OP. It must be difficult to deal with this no matter who does the initial ask for separation. You have a small baby to take care of as well as yourself but wishing you the best and that things clear up very soon.

      • Wildkitten

        And let us know if you need anything. I think some r3tt3s live near you – if you need a place to go for a few hours, or if you need someone to sleep over to call 9-1-1 if he shows up. A police report can be very helpful in getting a restraining order. I third whoever said you should change the locks immediately.

    • OCAssociate

      No advice, just support. I think I know who this is, and based on your past posts you’re making the right decision for you and your baby. Think of this as your first step toward future happiness, even though there will be difficult times first. Good luck!

  5. Responsibilities for Solo Parent During Holidays

    I wanted to ask the hive’s opinion on an issue related to this morning’s discussion of a MIL inviting herself to holidays.

    My mom has chosen to live a very solitary life – no partner, no close friends, no other family – in a different part of the country. I live in my home state, HS, where the rest of my mom’s extended family lives – she moved elsewhere. DH and I celebrate holidays in HS with extended family (my mom’s family). My mom knows these holiday celebrations are near and dear to me, but she refuses to come. Its not that she won’t travel here, she just won’t come for holidays. As a result of her refusal to come to HS, if I don’t go visit her for holidays, she will stay home alone.

    I am conflicted about this. I think her refusal to come to HS is childish, selfish, and manipulative. But if I don’t go to her, I feel like a bad child for leaving her alone on a holiday.

    So, what do you think – does an adult child have a responsibility to make sure a parent, who is solitary by choice, does not spend a holiday alone?

    • tesyaa

      You’re not doing anything wrong. But are you even sure that she wants you to visit? Does she hint, guilt or complain that you’re not coming? If she’s chosen this lifestyle, maybe she wants solitary holidays too.

      Also, is it possible there are relationship issues with her family members that she doesn’t want to deal with?

      • Responsibilities for Solo Parent During Holidays

        Yes she wants me to come, yes she lays the guilt trip on thick, Yes, she has family issues (seriously, who doesn’t?), but she visits during the rest of the year and sees all these family members anyway, so she’s not avoiding them by not coming for holidays.

        • (former) preg 3L

          Sounds like she wants to be reassured that you love her more than you love the rest of the family. You can play into her hand by visiting her over the holidays, or you can do things the rest of the year to try to reassure her / build her up, and then have the holiday experience YOU want (since you are an adult and all).

        • Anonymous

          So, why can’t you go see her? Not for every holiday, no, but ever? Not even Thanksgiving every other year? It does seem a bit harsh that you won’t change what you do at all to accommodate her. In general, no, I don’t think you are responsible, but I do think a holiday visit sometimes isn’t out of order.

          • Senior Attorney

            Sounds like both you and she are pretty stubborn.

            I like the idea of an occasional family visit to Mom.

          • Responsibilities for Solo Parent During Holidays

            I do see her during some holidays. Even if I go for Thanksgiving, she complains about Christmas.

          • Anonymous

            Well in that case, nope. “Mom, I like spending holidays with extended family. You’re welcome to join and I’m happy to discuss ways we can make visiting work for you. I can last Thanksgiving, and I’ll see you in March.”

            “Oh, you’re on the verge of death because I hate you and don’t come home? I’m really sorry to hear that, but you chose to move away and I am not visiting you for every single holiday. You must have realized that was a possibility when you moved.”

          • Senior Attorney

            Yeah, I say if you’re spending some holidays with her you get a pass about the one’s you’re spending elsewhere.

          • Bee

            I said earlier today that I thought poster should make sure MIL wasn’t alone for the holidays, but that was based on a number of things that aren’t present here. Importantly, MIL was willing to travel to everyone else. You’re not in the same position. Your mother is invited to join the celebration, but refuses to travel. Instead, she is demanding that you isolate yourself from the rest of your family for EVERY holiday. That’s not fair to you. If she ends up alone on a holiday, that’s her own fault.

    • Anonymous

      I think it would be nice if you visited her for some holidays. I understand you like what you do now, but spending Thanksgiving with your mom every third year doesn’t seem like a huge ask.

      But, generally, I vote nope. It’s an adults responsibility to make sure they aren’t alone if they don’t want to be. I don’t think she gets to make you come home all the time, but it also seems a bit extreme for you to refuse to ever do it.

    • Hildegarde

      I think I vote (mentally, as I don’t often comment on these threads) for accommodating family members more often than many of the commenters here, but even I think you do not have a duty to go spend holidays with your mom in this situation. Everyone needs to accommodate each other, especially in families, and it doesn’t sound like she’s making an effort to see you at all over the holidays.

      The only way my answer would change is if there’s some history of abuse from her family (or one member of her family) toward her. Then I can understand why she would refuse to come. Has she given any reason for not attending the family gatherings? And does she ask you to come visit her, or are you putting this on yourself?

      ETA: Why did this comment go into moderation? Could we please have a list of rules stating what will put us in moderation?

    • Must be Tuesday

      If she refuses to travel during the holidays while traveling other times of the year, and if she refuses to travel during the holidays (ever) but expects you to be the one to travel for the holidays (always or occasionally, doesn’t matter), I think you’re perfectly justified in saying no, and that’s that. Invite her for the holidays, let her know she’s welcome, but if you don’t want to go to her, don’t. Nothing to feel guilty about, especially if you do visit her other times of the year.

      • Wildkitten

        It’s much more expensive to fly during the holidays than to fly during other times of the year. I don’t know if that is her logic, but I’d rather visit people during not-holidays due to price.

    • Anon

      Yeah, visit her sometimes – like maybe a holiday every other year or whatever works for you. Inviting her to visit is making sure she has something to do, though. You could even offer to pay for her ticket if that’s the barrier. If she doesn’t want to come, that is her personal choice. Don’t feel bad about it. It’s not like she’s all alone because you’re telling her she’s not invited. If she really cared that much, presumably she’d come.

    • Responsibilities for Solo Parent During Holidays

      Thanks everyone. Its reassuring to know that my approach to the situation is not unreasonable.

  6. MONTREAL

    I posted this morning but without responses. Trying a second time as I recall a few posters having good recommendations for the city and a few natives amidst the hive, as well.

    I am looking for a restaurant recommendation in Montreal, somewhere delicious and romantic, though preferably not trendy or crazy expensive. If anyone has been to the Scandinave Spa in Vieux Montreal and can report back with a review, that’d be much appreciated, too. Thank you again!

  7. AIMS

    How do Vince jackets fit compared to say BR and Theory? They have a lot of stuff on sale on Saks Off Fifth, and I am eyeing a boxy jacket. I normally size up with more expensive items as in my experience they tend to run less-large than more mass-market brands, but I am not sure if that’s necessary with a boxy jacket. FWIW, the size chart isn’t that helpful…

    • anon prof

      Thanks for the tip :) I am a Vince fan. I think they typically run largish. Usually 8 on top w/small chest at BR/Theory. I have the very fitted leather scuba jacket in M and it is absolutely perfect, but have ordered other (nonfitted) outerwear in wool and required S, and sweaters also usually need S. Hope this helps!

      Edit: realized not helpful for blazers. I would order the 8 on something like the “cropped tweed jacket”, but if sometimes wore 6 in BR/Theroy, sometimes 8, would order the 6.

    • TO Lawyer

      I would size down because I’ve found their boxier items are REALLY big on me. But I’m relatively small up top so YMMV

  8. Boudoir photos - DC recommendations?

    Prompted by this weekend’s thread. I’d love to get these done…any recommendations? Like most people, I need someone to tell me what to do and make me feel comfortable, since I don’t take s*xy selfies on a regular basis :)

    • anon

      No specific recs, but a lot of wedding photographers do this & don’t always have portfolios online b/c of privacy concerns. If there’s a wedding photographer who’s style you like, I’d contact her.

    • (former) preg 3L

      No specific recs either, but i’d consider emailing people i like even if they’re outside my area just in case they know someone closer or have plans to visit! In Austin, I really like the look of jnoelboudoir dot com and in SF, I have read good things about Danielle Fletcher, at boudoironfilm dot com

  9. Jen

    I’m interested in the Collector’s Box glasses case listed in the this post. The link isn’t working for me. Any other tips on how to find it? Thanks!!!

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