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Updated: Jan 31, 2024 152 Comments · by

Coffee Break: Transport Tote

Coffee Break

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stylish brown suede tote with a zippered top from Madewell - a great work bag

Readers have loved Madewell's North/South Transport tote for years, but it's nice to see that they've got a more traditional tote in the same collection that is, at least, new to me. I love that it has a zippered top, as well as two interior pockets for smaller items like keys and phone.

It has a 4.75″ handle drop and an adjustable crossbody strap that is 15-19.75.” The bag is 11.75″ tall, 11-16″ wide, and 5.5″ deep. It's $198.

Some of the best work bags for women as of 2024 include great totes from Cuyana (with a zipper), Tumi, Tory Burch (lightweight, a laptop tote), Lo & Sons, and Madewell (north/south). Also try this highly-rated organizing insert or these clever pouches with some of the less structured bags! If you're looking for a budget tote (or one in a specific color) check this Amazon seller (22K+ good reviews) or this Amazon seller (60K+ good reviews).

black tote bag
Cuyana
a great interview bag for females (and great work bag in general): the Tory Burch Ella
Tory Burch
black leather tote bag
Tory Burch
black laptop tote
Lo & Sons
black laptop tote
Tumi
one of the best work totes for women in the north/south shape: the Transport tote from Madewell
Madewell

(Looking for a luxury work bag? Here's our latest roundup…)

Sales of note for 9.30.24

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. Anon

    I’m quitting my job on Thursday and cannot contain my excitement! So I’m telling all of you internet strangers! I’m a little nervous because I haven’t been there that long and I think they’re going to be mad, but oh well, right? My go to line is going to be “I got an offer I couldn’t refuse.” Rinse and repeat.

      • anon

        A day late here, but I resigned from a job over a decade ago from a mega koolaid drinking non profit…. like cult-ish. I resigned “out of cycle” and made them EXTRA very angry. That was my line and I didn’t blink. It was so hard in the moment but also so satisfying. They wanted more information, more explanations/justifications and I just. wouldn’t. give. it. It worked like a charm. GOOD LUCK!

    • Anonymous

      I’m kind of laughing a bit because that’s the line I use when someone has been fired but we don’t want folks in our industry to know they were fired.

  2. bellatrix

    Frivolous question … tell me your tips for succeeding at karaoke! Husband is trying to get back in with our friend group (we were more Covid-cautious than they were, so we have drifted apart a bit); they are regulars at a few karaoke places in our area, and he says we should go. Okay, fine. But this means I will probably have to sing at some point, and I am TERRIFIED.

    I have a decent voice (for church hymns, Christmas carols, that kind of thing), but I’m not a trained singer by any means and I’ve never sung solo in public. Karaoke seems to require a degree of showmanship, which I do NOT have, and I don’t like being mediocre where other people can see. (Yes, I am a former gifted kid, why do you ask?) So! Tips on choosing the right song, how to get over stage fright (besides liquid courage), how to stop feeling like I can’t do anything if I’m not amazing at it. There is clearly more to this than just figuring out how to tackle karaoke, but let’s start small.

    • Anon

      I think part of the fun of karaoke is being slightly bad at it and embracing it

    • Anon

      You don’t really need to succeed at karaoke. Just have a few drinks and have fun.

      • Anon

        This! If your crowd is like mine, then no one is going to be winning The Voice or anything, and that’s not really the point. Pick a song you know well. Bonus points if it’s a song that a lot of other people like and enjoy singing because the audience will join in too sometimes! Dance even if you’re not good at it. Just a little booty shake or waving your arms is enough.

        • Moose

          My #1 tip is to pick a song that the crowd will want to sing along with. Also, short!

    • Anon

      Succeeding at karaoke is getting drunk and belting it out. If you’re nervous sing with other people.

      • Anon

        I have a friend who chooses the Bee Gees (from the disco era) every time and is not a belter, she does sort of a squeaky comical falsetto that is not her real “singing” voice, but it doesn’t seem like she’s trying to be funny, I guess that’s just what the Bee Gees sound like to her. Anyway, she brings the house down every single time.

        To OP,
        maybe try a private karaoke room with just your friend group if you’re not comfortable going for the first time at a larger place.

        https://www.tiktok.com/@bringbackjosta/video/7115104560447819051

        • It's me.

          Ooof I’ve done one of those and they were SO much worse for me! Then it’s like you are looking your friend IN THE EYE while you sing badly!

    • Anonymous

      Find a fun duet that you can sing with your husband. “I got you, babe” comes to mind.

      • anonshmanon

        Elton John and Kiki Dee’s Don’t Go Breaking My Heart is pretty easy too.

        • Anon

          Two of my work besties sang that at a company retreat, and I still think of it as “their” song.

      • Senior Attorney

        So funny I’ve had that song stuck in my head all day because we’re singing it as part of a Groundhog Day program at Rotary this week…

    • Anonymous

      Girl chill. It’s just for fun. You don’t have to participate. You can let go of your childhood boxes instead of reinforcing them.

    • Anonymous

      Honestly, I never sing at karaoke. I have a beer and cheer on my friends.

    • Anonymous

      Spice Girls Wannabe. Get people to go up with you, more people will probably join in. If your friendgroup has a cute pet name for the group, put that down as the name that the DJ calls up.

    • Karaoke Queen McJudgyPants

      ok fine. I’m running contrary to the other commenters as a regular karaoke person and say there ARE tacit karaoke culture rules. and OP I love that you’re on your A-game!

      1) unless you’re an incredible singer, pick a song 3 minutes or less. no one wants to hear Bohemian Rhapsody or Free Bird unless they are absolutely shattered and not paying attention.
      2) pick a song where you absolutely *know* the words and more importantly, the beats and music breaks, otherwise it gets awkward to watch people fall too far behind or ahead of beat.
      3) be mindful of your available keys. yes you could be the person who everyone laughs at because they’re tone-deafly singing to Before He Cheats, but I prefer to appear competent at singing so I stick to altos or men singing.
      4) if you’re a fan of rap, which I think does very well in certain karaoke settings, you better make sure you know where all the bad words are – and that you can censor yourself in advance.

      I like to keep a list of songs I have done and want to do. It mitigates stress when you’re in the moment and staring down the big books and a potentially bossy karaoke MC

      • Anonymous

        I am an actual trained singer who often does karaoke at home with friends and family who are also actual trained singers. I strongly agree that for karaoke you need a song that you know in your sleep and on which you can keep perfect time, and that you need to choose an appropriate key. No matter how good a singer you are it’s painful to watch you floundering.

        • anon

          Before He Cheats is a big offender! Not many people can sing that well. Respect to Ms. Underwood.

    • Anon

      I never sing karaoke because I do not want to sing in front of people ever. You don’t have to either if you don’t want to.

      • Anon

        Same! But I’m extremely tone deaf (in elementary school, I wasn’t allowed to sing in class chorus concerts, because I was so bad).

    • The No Club

      1. You don’t have to sing. Really, no one cares. In fact, the people who truly love karaoke are fine with it when other people don’t sing – more stage time for them (us).
      2. If you must go up, go up in a group, and don’t hold or get close to the mic. Again, let the people who love to belt it out hog the mic, while you get participation credit just for standing up there and mouthing along vaguely.
      3. If for some reason you feel undue pressure to do a solo (really no one cares), pick a short, upbeat song that the crowd will know and urge them to sing with you. Easy fun songs under 3 minutes include: Respect, All the Small Things, Tainted Love, Wannabe, ABC.

    • Anon

      (1) choose a song you like
      (2) go at it like Ally McBeal singing into a lightbulb (season 2, in case you were wondering)

      But really, there is no succeeding at karaoke. Don’t take yourself too seriously and just go for it!

  3. Anonymous

    Best black leggings for running/working out? My old pairs (5-10 years old?) are biting the dust and my previous styles are now discontinued. I’m overwhelmed with options. I hate the feeling of “control top” type compression but don’t want leggings to fall down. I want a high waist (like belly button high), prefer a side pocket, absolutely zero show through if I bend down or squat, prefer full length or 7/8, and realistically must survive regular machine wash and drying on normal cycle. (This worked for 5 years so fingers crossed!) I’m willing to pay crazy Athleta/Lulu regular price if needed, but would love a less expensive choice if possible. I am not super sweaty but will start running soon outdoors so they will see some elements. I am a size XS in Fabletics and Athleta. Live in a rural area so have to order. Prefer not to order 20 pairs and return 19, I’d like to buy 4-5 of the same pair and toss my worn ones.

    • ollie

      I like Girlfriend Collective, particularly the Float line if you don’t want something too compressive, and Athleta Salutations.

    • Anonymous

      I like the Vuori brand Daily Legging with pockets. They have a drawstring, which is what I prefer, as no just compression leggings ever stay up for me.

    • Anon88

      I was never a leggings person until I started wearing Beyond Yoga leggings. Pricey, but my holy grail. I wear mine for everything from rock climbing to sleeping and they’ve held up for years. I can’t stand the feeling of compression clothes, and these make you look sleek and kind of pull everything in without feeling constricted. The only thing is I don’t dry them in the dryer.

    • Anonymous

      Sweaty Betty have a drawstring and a useable side pocket and hold up well

      • Laura

        Another Sweaty Betty vote! They are my absolute fave. Compressive but still comfortable and wear like iron.

        • MinnieBeebe

          Sweaty Betty leggings are very nice, but definitely on par price-wise with Lulu/Athleta, if not more expensive. OP, for the most part, leggings are what you pay for– the more expensive brands have better, more supportive fabrics and (on me, anyway) tend to fit better (with better placed seams which, again, for me, eliminate the “encased sausage” look.) My faves are Athleta Ultimate Stash 7/8 tights– they go on sale, often lucky sizes only. But if you’re an XS, you will likely get lucky.

    • Anonymous

      I like my Oiselle pocket jogger knickers and long shorts for warmer weather running. They have a lot of pockets and a drawstring plus compression. I’m short waisted and they hit me at or just above my belly button. They use numbered sizes so there is more size customization and they are very durable. They are a little thick for really hot weather. Oiselle has frequent sales if you get on their mailing list, but they are pricey.

      For colder weather, I like the Athleta Rainer leggings I got recently or Sugoi Midzero (except mine have no pockets), or for really cold weather, the Athleta Atltitude.

      • Anonymous

        I also have some BALEAF shorts from Amazon that I like reasonably well for the money. Haven’t tried their leggings.

      • Girlonawirless

        Love, love, love Oiselle. Comfortable, durable, practical pockets, and a brand by women and for women

    • anon

      Colorfulkoala on Amazon! They’re supposedly Lululemon dupes, but I love them and have about 5 pairs.

    • Anonymous

      Senita – the studio skin joggers are practically leggings (very close fitting, just that they have a cuff), but I think they have leggings as well. Mine have lasted for two years now with wearing 1-3x a week and show almost no sign of wear!

    • Anon MI

      if you’re really willing to pay – look at tracksmith. love their session pant. also like the turnover tights, I’ve never had any problems with them falling down.

  4. Anon

    I withdrew funds from my 401k last year (actually, I emptied it). What kind of form do I need to give to my tax preparer showing that I did that? Will I get something in the mail? Do I have to print something? I don’t think I have an account with the financial company anymore since I emptied the account. This was a 401k at a past job.

  5. Anon88

    Looking for a Miami/Fort Lauderdale area hotels. Want something on the more relaxing side–not a partier– and relatively affordable, ideally <$400/night. Near the beach is ideal, but I know that price point is limiting. Anyone have any leads?

    • Sunshine

      The Hilton Fort Lauderdale is a nice hotel – I don’t know how much it is per night.

      About 10 years ago, I stayed at Bahia Mar Double Tree Fort Lauderdale. At that time, it wasn’t as nice as the Hilton is now, but I’m guessing it was less expensive. Still on the beach with a nice pool and it had self-parking.

    • anon

      honestly, you should just risk hotel tonight. In jan we got fountainebleau for $350 a night

  6. Anonymous

    Is it legal for a job in the US to require an employee to have fluency in a specific language? (to be clear; not a translation job. Like, live and work in a diverse community) Example A: must write/speak/understand English and use software programs that are in English. Example B: must write/speak/understand both English and Spanish to provide patient outreach. Is it legal to fire someone for not being fluent?

    • Anon

      This is a good question for an employment lawyer in your specific jurisdiction.

        • Anon

          There are circumstances where it’s not as clear cut! There are situations where fluency can be a proxy for other types of discrimination such that I don’t think it’s possible to answer this question in the abstract. Source— am an employment lawyer who has worked with a lot of international employees in the US.

    • Anon

      Of course it’s perfectly legal to require it as a condition of employment. For example, if this is a nonprofit working with migrants on immigration or a health clinic that serves certain populations, it’s perfectly legal to require them to speak Spanish or another target language as a condition of employment. And if you lie about your fluency, then yep, you’ve lied to your employer and they can fire you for that.

      • Anon

        Or they can change their mind about the job and decide it’s a new requirement and still fire you for that.

    • Anonymous

      As a Canadian who has pretty good French but who has lost out on way too many jobs for not being C/C/C bilingual – I can’t imagine a scenario where this isn’t allowed. Was it a requirement prior to hiring? Did they lie? Or just fail to obtain sufficient fluency? Lots of jobs require multiple languages.

  7. Lorelai Gilmore

    Following up on the conversation about non-profit boards from the morning: if you’re staff at a non-profit, what do you want your board to do (besides fundraising)? What does the ideal board member want? What does the ideal board member say at a meeting? How does the ideal board member balance staying “strategic” with the fact that sometimes, you have to understand what’s happening in operations in order to appropriately exercise oversight (including of the CEO)?

    • Jane

      As someone in this field for last 25 years, we want board members to actively help us get funds and donations! (obv among other things)

    • Anonymous

      Respond to calls and emails promptly would be a good start. Show up to meetings and events.

      Beyond that, it depends on the nonprofit. I work for a large organization and we primarily need our board to fundraise for us and make connections, although some strategic leadership is always helpful. We have had board members who used to work for local elected officials and still had strong government connections that were useful to us in getting in touch with people we needed to get city funding. We have used Board members to connect us to a very accomplished realtor who helped us negotiate a convoluted but very beneficial lease related to tax credits for the landlord.

  8. How can I help my brother in surprise fatherhood

    My brother lives and works in a foreign country. He works and travels often. He has had a FWB there for almost 2 years. She is a citizen of a different country in Europe, and seemed like a stable professional type.

    My brother came home from an extended trip to find that his FWB had moved into his (owned) home and given up her apartment. She told him she was expecting. The baby is due in June. She has started treating him poorly – he sleeps on the sofa at her insistence, they haven’t been intimate since before his trip, she criticizes his clothes and hobbies, and throws out his belongings at a whim. Last weekend she apparently slipped him a sleeping pill and shaved off his beard.

    My brother is being remarkably stoic about this. He plans to buy a larger home, and for them to cohabitate. He is committed to providing a proper platform for their child’s life.

    I am hopeful that the troubling behaviors above will abate…clearly this woman is going through a lot. So far she is refusing to meet any of my brother’s family – we would all be welcoming to her.

    How can I help and support my brother in this new 20 year effort, especially from afar? Despite the circumstances, I am sincerely happy at the prospect of being an aunt. But troubled at how he is being treated.

    • Anon

      Well he needs a paternity test. IME, when people start acting so differently, there’s something fishy going on

    • How can I help my brother in surprise fatherhood

      Perhaps worth mentioning that FWB told him from the start that she was infertile and also had an IUD.

      • Yikes

        (is that his rationale for having unprotected sex and being surprised by biology doing what it does?)

        I’d kick her out and change my locks because she’s gonna ruin his life for her own pleasure (putting aside the baby and whether or not its his, which he might want to figure out as well).

        Baby and new house and supporting him from abroad can come later, but he should be protecting himself first and foremost.

    • JTM

      I think the first thing your brother should be doing is confirming that he is indeed the father.

      • Anon

        This. But before then, if someone were drugging me in my own home, I’d get the FWB evicted, pregnant or not.

      • Anon

        This is so unhinged I haven’t decided whether I’m convinced she’s even really pregnant!

    • Anon

      She drugged him and shaved his face without his consent? This is all very disturbing and I’d be encouraging him to get a paternity test asap.

      • Explorette

        And moved into his house when he was out of town?! This woman sounds insane. Hope for the best (these troubling behaviors will abate) but plan for the worst (these behaviors will get worse). Paternity test and talk to a family law attorney asap.

      • Anon

        That, especially in the context of everything else, is MASSIVELY disturbing and not ok.

      • Anonymous

        Right? WTF! Why are you all supportive of this?

        And how was he not suspicious of her story from the beginning? Why would she have an IUD if she was infertile?

        • NaoNao

          Men don’t get it/care but IUDs can be inserted to control excess period bleeding and/or correct hormonal stuff.

      • Senior Attorney

        Holy moly this is abusive behavior and there is no universe in which any of it, from the moving in unnanounced to the DRUGGING and UNCONSENTED SHAVING, is okay.

    • Anon

      He should be considering a restraining order, not buying a larger house for them to live in. This woman is unstable and dangerous. Assuming that he is the father (which should be confirmed via paternity test) he doesn’t have to be in an abusive relationship in order to be a parent. He should tell the woman that he didn’t agree to cohabitate and she needs to find her own place by X date. Consult a local attorney about eviction laws as well. Did he seek medical attention after she *drugged* him? Or file a police report for battery? His goal should be financially supporting the child while minimizing interaction with this woman.

    • Anon

      If he’s not the father, he needs to get her removed.

      If he’s the father, he needs to get her removed and get full custody (legal and physical).

    • Anon

      Same answer as in America: he needs to talk to a lawyer and a good therapist. He should figure out his rights and responsibilities regarding this child, paternity testing, evicting her, how to set boundaries with her, and understanding the massive red flags that are present.

    • Anon

      This is all very bizarre and makes no sense. If due in June that mean she’s like 3-4 months pregnant – when did she say she found out? Why didn’t she immediately call him and tell him? A lot of things are very bizarre about this but he doesn’t need to be your partner to be a good dad, if this is his baby.

    • Anonymous

      Is she Eastern European? Is it too late for an abortion? This is not good.

      • How can I help my brother in surprise fatherhood

        West European. Not too late but it is her choice. My brother is such a sweetheart but he is so accommodating and trusting. He wouldn’t even say anything to influence her decision one way or another.

      • Turtlemania

        Is no one else weirded out that the brother is commenting on/complaining about lack of intimacy (especially in this context)? To me that stood out and made it clear that this probably is a pretty one sided description of events…

  9. anon

    i have over the years bought several lash curlers and have never been successful. 1) are more expensive or branded curlers better than what id get at the drug store? 2) is there a trick to getting it to work… the few times i’ve tried i couldn’t see the difference at all.

    • curly

      maybe you need to try a lash lift? are you using a waterproof mascara, that helps, maybe try heating it with your hair dryer too.

    • Sasha

      The Shisedo lash curler is the usual recommendation–I have it and like it. I curl, apply mascara, and lightly curl again. Finding a good mascara that works for you is crucial too–I use the Tarte Lights Camera Lashes.

      • Anonymous

        Putting on the mascara straight after using the curler seems to help hold the curl. I don’t recurl as the curler gets gloopy.

  10. Anonymous

    I’m going to San Miguel de Allende next week if any of you have recs of things to see, eat or do!

  11. Anonymous

    Does anyone have the name of a cheap and vetted glow in the dark nail polish? I’m looking to paint little glowing dots on my remote control and my microwave so I can use them in the dark but don’t want to waste money on something that won’t work.

  12. Anon

    Lead foot driver here with a traffic ticket like I’ve never seen before: NY state police – I have to snail mail my only copy of the ticket in to the local court, who will in turn snail mail me a notice of my fine, and I’m guessing I then get a choice to pay…by snail mail?

    Did the postal union design the ticket procedures? It’s 2024 and I want to cross this thing off my to-do list, not start a pen pal relationship 😂

    Props to whatever jurisdiction it was years ago that let me pay my speeding ticket on the side of the road. The cop had a credit card reader and gave me a receipt right there. Glorious.

    • Emma

      I’m Canadian and was once stopped by the NY state police (on the way back from writing the bar exam in Albany…). I was definitely speeding and just wanted to pay it, but the process was incredibly annoying and involved a bunch of snail mail being sent some the local county court to my local DMV, who then sent it to me, then I had to figure out how to get a cheque in US dollars, and mail it back with a form, and it was supposed to be spread over multiple payments for some reason? It wasn’t that much so I just paid off the whole thing, but I agree the process was bizarre. I’ve been stopped in other places and the process was much easier.

  13. Anonymous

    For those of you who grew up regular middle class say in the 70s, 80s, 90s, but are raising kids in a more well off situation – do you feel that those kids are not or will not be as driven academically, professionally, or financially because they have some much already?

    DH and I have been talking about this while our kids are just babies, and he thinks it’s crazy. Me IDK – I KNOW I was driven to make money having grown up in a very regular immigrant home. Don’t get me wrong we were perfectly middle class for the times, but it meant sharing a bedroom and bathroom my whole childhood rather than having my own, it meant no vacations and the only two flying trips we ever took were going back to the old country to see the grandparents, it meant no car as a teenager not even a used one.

    Fast forward to our kids who’ll have their own bedrooms and bathrooms and never have to share unless we make them. Three vacations a year mostly flying and probably going to Europe a dozen times in their childhood. I’d be willing to cut back on some of this stuff so my kids feel the need to achieve on their own but DH absolutely does not want to sacrifice because we work hard for these things for ourselves. To him it’s like look it’s not like these kids will be headed on a private jet to our second home in the Swiss Alps or something so it’s fine – it’s not spoiling.

    What do people think? Maybe this is a me thing because to me nothing drove me other than money. I didn’t pursue law or biglaw because I LOVED it, but because I knew it would be eight years of really high associate earnings that I could invest upfront and do whatever with later. Genuinely there was no profession that interested me SOOO much, but money did. DH OTOH thinks kids become doctors or Air Force pilots or whatever because they are driven to do that thing, not because of money or what vacations it’ll buy.

    • anon

      I was extremely motivated to succeed because I wanted to gtfo of my rural town and knew I needed to do well in high school, and later, college to do so. So far, my kids seem sufficiently motivated academically. It’s the other life skills stuff that I’m more concerned about and matter more in the end. Our kids have a very nice UMC life, but DH and I also make sure to be pretty clear about what it takes to have nice vacations, a nice house, etc.

    • Anon

      IDK — I have one kid who is insanely motivated by $ and one who would be content to take a vow of poverty and use her $ to save the dolphins or whatever. For a while, they shared a bedroom. They are gonna do what they are gonna do and I’m sure the vow of poverty one gets that she has to support herself and donate the change, not live on the streets, so I don’t care.

      There is a cycle, no, one generation is engineers so it’s kids can be lawyers so it’s kids can be poets. IDK what happens after poets. Or, my sister says, it takes 3 generations to go from trailers to trailers, which I do think is often true (we are rural people, so the double-wide decade is one generation ahead of my parents except for two cousins on a different side of the family, who have gone from a trailer to their own houses without wheels).

      • Senior Attorney

        Heh. My grandma lived in a double-wide for a while. She called it “my coach.”

    • Anon

      No…. I think what you’re thinking of makes more sense if you’re talking about families that are genuinely poor. We’re much better off than my parents, but they were solidly middle class, and the pressure to excel academically had nothing at all to do with money. DH & I both have a lot of academics on both sides of the family, and that’s not a profession people go into if they’re motivated by money. ;) We’re putting less academic pressure on our kids than our parents put on us, but it has nothing to do with money.

    • A

      In my experience upper middle class kids are more motivated by money because they are used to having it. I grew up with one bathroom in my family and am fine living that way while my friends who had their own bathrooms typically want the same as adults, e.g.

    • Anon

      Eh, I’m in the same position you are and do worry about it some. But, I’m the highest earner/most financially motivated of my 3 siblings by far. Youngest sibling has a solid middle class job but will probably be raising their kids similar to how we were raised/a little better. Middle sibling is a tour guide who’s on Medicaid because he makes so little.

    • Anony

      I was also an immigrant kid and relate very much to your thinking, but ultimately I land closer to your husband on this. First, as I’ve gotten older and gotten to know more people in a wider variety of fields, I’ve come to believe that some people are driven and some are not and it comes from within. I think the fuel for the drive is different for each person (I actually am really invested in my particular kind of work and it’s not just money for me, but absolutely, the desire to “rise above my station” has played a real role in my life). But I think ultimately, drive is something that has to come from you; I certainly know lots of immigrant kids who didn’t develop it. And to that point, I’m not sure you can artificially create a sense of insecurity (which I think is what fuels that drive for a lot of us). My insecurity as a kid came from the knowledge that my parents didn’t make a lot of money and definitely didn’t have a lot (if anything, at times) saved up. A big part of my desire to build savings for myself was because I knew that if I ever ran into trouble, they would have insisted on helping me because they’re all about family first and not themselves, and I never wanted to be the cause of financial hardships for them. But whether or not I take him on nice vacations, my 12-year old definitely knows that his dad and I are doing just fine financially, it wouldn’t be a hardship for us to help him, and he definitely doesn’t have to worry about us. And that’s foreign to me so it feels kind of weird, but it’s what I wanted. Like, the insecurity probably served me well in life, but one of the things I wanted was for my child not to feel it and I’m glad he doesn’t.
      Second, my husband is also an immigrant kid, but his family was much better off financially than mine (his parents came here earlier, and with much more lucrative skills). When I used to bring these thoughts up before we had our child, he was like “dude, I do not worry about this at all.” He is very motivated professionally, but if you were to ask him why, his reasons would be different from mine. So I really think motivation is very, very individual.

      • anon

        I would agree with this. I’m also from an immigrant family, and I grew up sharing bedroom with my brother (I’m female) until he moved out for college. We didn’t have cable tv or cell phones or gaming consoles let alone vacations and music lessons. But all of that culminated in just enough drive for me to go into a salaried job that pays above median but nothing like med or law or finance. Am I driven by money? Sure, it’s why I got a college degree and go to work, but am I soooo driven by money that I’d pursue something I have absolutely no interest in? No, that hadn’t been the case.

    • Anonymous

      You’re both right. In my experience these kids are exposed to a wider world so the opportunities for achievement are greater. So they think about what they want to do like your DH thinks but they will also realize that doing big things and having a comfortable, international life is not cheap. Like oldest kid spontaneously started doing duolingo in Italian because she wants to work for UN in Rome when she’s older. That would have been on my radar in university not upper elementary. She’s been to Italy 5 times. I hadn’t left my country until I was 12. I thought of being a lawyer, doctor, teacher, or journalist in my local city. Their perspectives are so much wider.

      We talk about money much more openly than my parents. They know we choose to drive slightly older cars and spend more on travel. They know we picked an older smaller house closer to my work vs. my BFF whose lives further away for a longer commute but each kid has their own bedroom and bathroom. There is always someone with more but they know to have a lifestyle that involves vacations, secure retirement, and a large comfortable house, they need to work hard at school and get a well paid job. They just have a lot more awareness of how many different kinds of well paid jobs are out there.

    • Senior Attorney

      I agree with your DH. My kid is grown (probably close to your age) and the main thing I learned as a parent is that kids arrive in this world with a lot of their personalities already in place, and what you do is going to have much less effect than you think. Example: I always thought my parents didn’t push me hard enough to succeed/excel, so I vowed I would encourage/push/motivate my kid so that she would get straight As if she were capable of doing so (which she was), and get into a great school and get a great job and yadda yadda yadda.

      Well. She wasn’t having any of it. She marched to the beat of her own drummer from the cradle, and all my pushing just created tension between us. (Mercifully I got smart and backed off when she was in her early teens.) She ended up doing just fine, thank you, but to this day she isn’t interested in capital-S Success and isn’t motivated by money beyond what it takes to support her modest lifestyle. What she is interested in is a flexible schedule, less than 40-hour work week, and the ability to help people through her work, and she’s made that happen (psychotherapist in private practice, working from home on Zoom).

      Oh, and When she was growing up I’d say we were “regular middle class” by your definition, in that we didn’t do foreign vacations and we shared a bathroom. I have more money now and she kind of scoffs at my multiple foreign vacations every year…

      • anon

        Boy, if this isn’t the truth. I don’t know if I’d believe it if my own two kids weren’t so incredibly different in every way. They are not motivated by the same things at all.

          • Anon

            Ahh … I wondered this too, saw your reference to ‘daughter’ a while back and I was like, “wait, SA has two kids?” Ok then.

    • Anon

      I grew up very middle class and my cousins (who lived next door) were probably lower-middle class.

      Of the 6 of us, it’s about 50 / 50 who followed the money and who followed their interests. The ones who followed their interests are teachers or work for the government, so it’s not like anyone wanted to take the starving artist route.

      My oldest two cousins are twins and they learned very differently from their experiences: one said he never wanted to be poor again and he became an investment banker, his wife is a big law associate and they live in a 5,000 square foot house in Morris County, NJ. His twin brother learned that he could get by and be perfectly happy without much, so he graduated college and then chose to enlist in the military rather than going the officer route. He loves it. He’s getting out soon and hoping to transition to teaching and coaching.

      I’m a fed, so I have a nice life but nothing extravagant. My kids will have a nice life than I grew up with, but not all that much nicer. We naturally live below our means, so my kids will have more road trip or camping vacations than they will have flying to Europe vacations! In fact, we’ve discussed that we only plan on taking our kids abroad (aside from a road trip to Canada) three times, but we plan on going to a different continent each time. Partially because that’s how we prioritize money and partially because I think it’s important to be exposed to how “most people” live, which is not a high flying life. Our house was originally a 1.5 bath, we ended up adding a master bathroom because we wanted it, but our 3 kids share one. We could have added a second kid bathroom, but decided it wasn’t worth the money for us. Right now our two sons share a room, if one ever wants to move out well give him the option of finishing a room in the attic, but it would be something he and my husband do together, not professionally done. A cleaning service would be nice, but I’d rather save the money and model to my kids that we all have to pitch in and do chores.

      So, TLDR I am on your side with this!

    • Anonymous

      I’m not exactly your target audience as my family was upper middle class, but I do think that having a more comfortable upbringing makes it easier for kids to take some financial risks in their career choices. For example, I majored in art and tried to be an artist for years, probably partly because I had a sense that there was a parental $afety net available in a pinch. I have been fully self-supporting since shortly after I graduated from college with a few exceptions, but I didn’t have any loans to pay off, and I didn’t focus on things like retirement spending until I was in my 30s. My mother also encouraged me to “follow my dreams” as she felt like she could not due to sexism. I think both of my parents had middle class childhoods, maybe upper middle class in my mother’s case; my father was a first generation college graduate and his parents had blue collar jobs. But they were always fairly frugal and do it yourselfers; my father still does a lot of his own yard work in his late 70s and my mother went to SuperCuts for years. I do not recall her ever getting her nails done; they hired a house cleaner for the first time last year.

      My brothers and I inherited a lot of their frugality. 2 are software engineers, and I eventually became a fundraiser for an arts organization. My father was a civil engineer for a consulting firm, and his job, although fairly lucrative, caused a lot of stress and strain on the family, including 2 cross-country moves and a lot of travel. So I may have internalized a “money isn’t everything message” from that. I lived very frugally for a long time to support my artmaking habit and preferences for nonprofit jobs where I could work in the arts and be around other art lovers. And I married a man who, like my father, loves a project and would still rather change the oil in our car lying on the side of the road in Brooklyn rather than pay someone to do it (we park on the street).

    • Anonymous

      Wouldn’t be nice if your kids weren’t desperate and panicked about money to the exclusion of considering anything else?

      • Anon

        This. Growing up on the lower cusp of middle class did not motivate me to become a highly aggressive go-getter. Instead, it made me incredibly risk averse and frugal, to the point that as an upper middle class adult I struggle to remind myself it is okay to buy the brand name canned beans and I can fill my gas tank at the most convenient station and don’t have to slog to the one across town because it is five cents cheaper.

    • Anon

      I grew up quite rich and was absolutely motivated to succeed on my own regardless. I didn’t want people talking about me as a nepo baby or other derisive things people say about rich kids.

    • Anon

      I am in this situation. Grew up super middle class in India, worked hard, emigrated. Now in top 1% of my rich adopted country. Kids can see us working hard for the stuff and experiences we have. They’re very motivated.

  14. Anon

    What would you do:
    Stay in Job A — high-stakes-high-stress work, occasional crazy periods of working nights/weekends/holidays, but a lot of flexibility most of the time (arrive late/leave early). Remote work is strongly discouraged but possible except during the busy times. Busy periods are not always predictable, and can be a week or two months. Very very rewarding at times, but sometimes also incredibly upsetting. Everyone thinks this job is super cool. I worked very hard to get to this place in my career.

    Take Job B – steady, easy hours. Less flexibility on arrival and leaving, much more oversight of time, but can telecommute 50%. Work is somewhat repetitive, and I can see it getting boring in a year or two. I can also see getting pretty good at it such that the WFH days can be partially “do laundry and bake bread” days, which is not possible at my current job. My spouse has a few WFH days a week, so we could coordinate to get rid of aftercare for our late elementary kid. Salary is a 30% pay cut.

    Both jobs have comparable benefits and vacation time. I’m massively burned out, which is why I started looking around, but I’m also worried that I would regret leaving Job A or get bored at Job B. The pay cut would sting, and cut into the vacation budget and savings, but it would be the same salary I had until 2021, so livable.

    • anon

      Apologies if you’ve done this already, but if you really don’t want to leave Job A, I would work on doing whatever is needed to abate the burnout. Take the vacation time. Set up a reasonable remote work schedule even if it ruffles a few feathers. The busy periods can really suck and make it hard to get anywhere on keeping out of burnout mode, so I greatly sympathize. Alternatively, you could see Job B is a “just for now” job and move on in a couple of years when you’re ready to try something else.

      • OP

        Thanks, I’ve been working on the burnout for a while now, and while it’s overall improved, it’s like I’m extra reactive to stress now, so stressful periods push me into burnout super fast. I think I would need like 6 months or a year off to fully recover, but unfortunately that’s not financially feasible!

        • anon

          Oh, I get you. It is hard to come back from when the conditions that caused it haven’t changed much.

    • Anon

      I have Job B. It’s very boring, but the ability to do other stuff while “working” from home has been great, I won’t lie. That said, my kids are younger than it sounds like yours are (5 & 7) and I plan to try to get a more demanding, interesting job when the youngest is 10 or so.

    • Anon

      If you are massively burnt out then how can you keep going in Job A?

      Yeah, you’ll regret leaving but you’ll also feel better for prioritising your health and family.

      • anon

        I responded above, but I’d also add to say that my DH recently left the super cool job that he’d worked toward most of his career. It’s been maybe 2 months, and it’s like a weight has been lifted from his shoulders. It was hard to leave but necessary.

    • Anon

      In the old days I would have taken Job A in a heartbeat, and in fact I had Job A. A type jobs usually pay better too, have more bonus/incentive pay potential. But now WFH is so important. Commuting can bite me. I also roll my eyes at mandatory must be in the office cultures. To me it reflects a lack of imagination on the part of management.

    • Anonymous

      What about benefits? You need to look at more than just hard salary since healthcare, 401K match, etc. are all part of compensation. But on surface description, I would do B and then eventually move on to Job C–a tad more exciting but hopefully still a lot of remote work and better pay. It’s OK to take a pay cut if it gets you to somewhere better eventually.

    • Anon

      How long have you been in Job A? Do you have the capital to WFH even if it’s “discouraged?”

    • Anon

      I vote to stay in Job A until you find a better Job C. Job B sounds both boring and possibly micro-managed from your time oversight comment. I have had Job B before and found the time-watching infuriating.

  15. Anon

    Ideas for an engagement gift? A close colleague who had been through a very rough few years has recently gotten engaged. I want to send something as a congratulations. It is a late second marriage for both and they are not registering anywhere. They live out of state so I’m not up on local restaurants or anything like that. I could send a bottle of bubbly but alcohol delivery rules are so weird and localized I don’t want to accidentally but something that’s a hassle to receive.

    Thanks for any ideas!

    • Moose

      I know not everyone loves them, but flowers would make my day! With a personal note.

    • Anon

      A gift card for a homewares place: beautiful new bedding, towels or kitchenware that they can choose would be welcomed, I think.

    • Cat

      in case your colleague is in PA (a state with a very weird reputation for liquor laws) there’s no issue receiving a bottle of wine by mail.

    • Anon

      Olive & Cocoa or Williams-Sonoma gift crate

      Burdick chocolate, signature collection, wooden box

  16. Updated Anon

    Hi – Thanks for the comments and encouragement yesterday! I’m the poster that was worried about my review and upcoming parental leave. Good news: It was the exact review and raise I was expecting (and wanted!). I’m pretty happy! The positives were all very positive and there was some actual very helpful constructive feedback too. Really appreciate it. I feel excited to work my remaining time and confident headed into partnership discussions later this year. Thanks all!

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