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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
If you’ve spent time working in male-dominated industries, you’ve probably been to a lot of events where the unspoken dress code for attendees is “polo shirt and khakis.” Personally, I’ve never found polo shirts to be that flattering on me, so I’m always on the lookout for something that’s roughly equivalent.
This sweater polo from Banana Republic would be perfect for those very casual business-casual events. I would wear this rust orange color with a pair of gray or navy ankle pants and a pair of loafers for an easy, comfy outfit for those conferences, trade shows, or networking happy hours.
The sweater is $95 and comes in sizes XXS–XXL. It also comes in black and white.
A plus-size option is from Reformation; it's 90% recycled cashmere and available in two colors in 1X–3X (lucky sizes) for $148.
Sales of note for 8.30.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
- Boden – 20% off
- Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
- Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
- Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
- Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
- White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale
Anonymous
My company just announced a reduction in the number of days we’re required to be in-office from 4/pay period to 2/pay period. Would it somehow look bad or be a bad idea for me to reduce my in-office schedule accordingly? Trying to think it through before I make any changes. I don’t mind going into the office, but it’s a 30 minute drive each way and it’s more convenient for me to WFH.
Anon
Why it would be bad when they’re expressly telling you that you can do this?
Anon
Exactly.
Anon
Yeah I’m not following the angst.
NYCer
Yeah, isn’t that the point of the announcement? I am confused why you’re concerned.
anonshmanon
does your organization have a habit of saying A with the unspoken expectation that people will not do A?
New Wardrobe
This is what I’m wondering. Or if her supervisor is a person who values butts in seats.
I’d personally get a feel for what the rest of my department was doing before making a decision.
pugsnbourbon
Yeah, and if they pull this kind of stuff OP needs to start looking for a new job.
Anon
I don’t necessarily agree. My office (about 500 employees) has a policy of x in person days per week. In some departments and for some positions, that’s great and no one cares at all. In other departments, there is a greater need for in-office presence. The larger office did not want to create a policy around those few departments, but it would be problematic for employees in those departments to reduce without an explicit conversation with the department head. None of this is super secret or intended to trick anyone.
Anon
?? Right, I’m so confused!
Anonymous
Of course not
Anonymous
Know your office. Lately some employers have been doing this to look more competitive to applicants. Even though the official policy has changed, the expectations of the powers that be have not.
Anonymous
I wouldn’t do it like, tomorrow, unless you are literally going to the office to sit in a room by yourself and take calls. I would definitely schedule yourself to be in the office less if that’s what you want. And you probably ought to have a quick touchpoint with your manager to see what s/he thinks in terms of which days are still important to be there.
Emma
Generally no, but personally I would try to assess what my team/manager is doing. If everyone else is always there except you, unfortunately that can be a not great look.
No Face
I would drop down immediately unless being in office specifically helped my workflow or political capital.
Cookbooks
What are some of your favorite cookbooks?
Anonymous
All of Smitten Kitchen cookbooks. I also really enjoyed Food Between Friends (from one of the guys on Modern Family and a professional chef)- some really great New Mexican inspired dishes.
Anne-on
+1 to Smitten Kitchen. I also really like Julia Turshen’s cookbooks and for very clear step by step directions you can’t beat the America’s Test Kitchen cookbooks (though I find the spice levels much too low for my taste and I usually increase the veggies in most of their recipes). Milk Street has some really interesting cookbooks too.
Anon
I find SK to be more work than I like, and not always great results.
Lizbet
I agree on the results — a number of her recipes that I was super excited to try ended up just … not working.
Anon
Anything from Ina and Skinny Taste is great and I find that just about every one of her recipes I make come out good, which is not the case with a lot of other cookbooks/blogs I use.
Senior Attorney
Yeah, Ina has never let me down.
Anon
Mark Bittman’s How to Cook Everything (specifically the first edition) and Marcella Hazan’s Essentials of Classic Italian Cooking are the two most tattered, grease and tomato stained volumes in my kitchen.
Vicky Austin
The one I use the most is One Pan & Done by Molly Gilbert. She’s not as well known, but I’ve made 80% of that cookbook at this point and never had a dud, and many of those recipes are family staples.
I also thought the latest Smitten Kitchen cookbook was Deb’s best work yet and have stickied most of it to try.
Cb
Smitten Kitchen is my go to. I don’t have her new cookbook, but her recipes never let me down.
Vicky Austin
Seriously – a lot of my favorite recipes come from her site rather than her cookbooks, but she’s a heavy hitter in my kitchen!
H13
I am a Smitten Kitchen fan–she is my go-to when I am looking for a recipe. Her most recent cookbook is great. Everything I’ve made has been exceptional and not hard!
Anon
We have a Cooks Illustrated one that is good. We laugh about the parts where it distinguishes what their all-American tasters liked from the more authentic way to prepare a dish.
Anne-on
Ha, see above about my comment on spicing. My husband and I laugh at the recipes that have measurements like ‘1 clove of garlic, and 1/4 tsp onion powder’ for an entire pot of chili.
anon
We also have and frequently use Cooks Illustrated a lot. It has a basic recipe for everything, and if you are already a proficient cook you know the substitutions that are most likely to make something better reflect your palate.
Anon
I like these books a lot, but I rarely follow the recipes all that closely, except when baking (this is true of any cookbook). I like how the descriptions make clear what matters, and I always adjust the spices to taste anyway.
Senior Attorney
I have the Cook’s Illustrated Bread book and it has a ton of really good recipes. So far everything has turned out great.
London (formerly NY) CPA
Also recommend the giant Cooks Illustrated cookbook. I’ve made a number of recipes and they all have turned out well.
Anne-on
I think what is great about Cook’s Illustrated is that it is great for a true beginner. SO many cookbooks presume a base level of cooking/baking (I find Ina Garten/Nigella Lawson do this) and the instructions are vague or sometimes skip steps. Mark Bittman also falls in the category of SUPER basic and clear instructions that were invaluable when I was 20 something and not yet great at cooking but didn’t want to ruin dinner as I couldn’t then afford takeout to replace it!
Anon
Yes, it actually discusses methods. I appreciate when they discuss alternative methods. “We compared the traditional way to a faster/easier method, and here’s what we found…” I’m completely okay with the faster, easier Bolognese sauce.
But part of what I want a cookbook for is tried and true recipes that will come out right because they’ve been tested and refined. There are plenty of free recipes online if I want inspiration (I know some people want print inspiration, but to me that’s a different genre of cookbook).
I also want recipes that I think other people will like (I generally know how to cook things that are 100% suited to my personal tastes, but my personal tastes are a little fringe!).
Anon
Dinner by Melissa Clark
Anon
I love this one.
anon
same, this is my favorite cookbook by far
buffybot
All of the Smitten Kitchen cookbooks, Well-Plated, agree on Melissa Clark’s Dinner. I have a one-dish cookbook from America’s Test Kitchen that is also fabulous.
Anon
King Arthur Whole Grain Baking, Shalane Flanagan’s Run Fast Eat Slow series (I use all three), several from America’s Test Kitchen or Cook’s Illustrated, but mostly the Plant Based and Mediterranean.
Anon
Love Real Food by Kathryne Taylor (Cookie and Kate)
Shalane Flanagan’s cookbooks
The Pioneer Woman’s holiday cookbook
The New Vegetarian by Celia Brooks Brown – more elaborate dishes but they are all amazing.
Lydia
Hummingbird High’s Weeknight Baking (by Michelle Lopez) is great for easy sweets. Soup for Syria is a bunch of soup recipes… I got it for my mom because of the mission (it benefits charity) but it’s actually amazing and we use it all the time. Just for looking at, Lauren Ko’s Pieometry.
Anonymous
Alison Roman’s.Nothing Fancy
Donna Hay’s New Food Fast
Anon
Nothing Fancy is a good one.
MJ
I love Keys to the Kitchen by Aida Mollenkamp
Full title: Aida Mollenkamp’s Keys to the Kitchen: The Essential Reference for Becoming a More Accomplished, Adventurous Cook
Anonymous
America’s Test Kitchen – Cooking for Two and their anthology of all 18 seasons. These books actually make me a better cook every time I use a recipe.
Halfbaked Harvest’s Super Simple. Always delicious and easy to incorporate into weeknight cooking
A.
I really want to try the new Smitten Kitchen cookbook and am on the wait list to get it from the library (which is my new way of seeing whether I really want to purchase a cookbook — try before you buy!). I consistently turn back to Jenny Rosenstrach’s Dinner: A Love Story — it’s my all time fave.
Anan
Rosenstrach’s newest The Weekday Vegetarian has accounted for about 75% of my dinners the past few months. I didn’t think much of it when I first flipped through it, but everything I’ve made in it has been easy and tasty and vesatile.
Anonymous
Anything with “5 ingredients or less” tends to be simple and easy; there’s an old Cooking Light one I used to love. All of the Skinnytaste cookbooks have been great, also.
anon
All of the Joy the Baker cookbooks. Never have had a dud with her recipes.
The Food Lab cookbook – such a great description of HOW to do things, plus recipes.
Senior Attorney
I got Lucky Peach 101 Asian Recipes for my husband’s birthday and we’ve been really happy with it.
Anan
For everyday cooking, I love Meera Soda’s Fresh India and East – really simple Indian and Asian recipes, mostly vegetarian. Also – America’s Test Kitchen’s Vegan for Everyone has been really useful when looking for plant based options.
I also like Mark Bittman’s Dinner for Everyone, though I don’t cook from it a lot – It features three versions of each recipe: one that can be made in 30 mins, one that is vegan, and one that is an intense labor of love version. I like seeing the different varieties.
Anon
My most used all-time favorite is the Joy of Cooking. Everyone needs an all purpose cookbook like this, and there’s almost nothing that isn’t in there.
After that, I frequently use both Roasting and Braising by Molly Stevens. I also have just about broken my copy of The Classic Italian Cookbook by Marcella Hazan.
My next most used book is The Joy of Mixology, which is a cookbook of sorts. I like a cocktail on Friday night and my husband and I are always looking at this for new ideas. It’s encyclopedic like the Joy of Cooking, hence the name I guess.
Beyond that, I browse cookbooks for inspiration. I receive cookbooks as gifts pretty often so I have many from Nigella Lawson, Ina Garten, Deb Perelman and the famous chefs. But my recent favorites are all by Melissa Clark, who writes for NYT cooking.
JustmeintheSouth
Milk Street, Giada’s various, Ina Garten, Marcella Hazan and Half baked Harvest.
Anonymous
My current favorite is Dinner in One by Melissa Clark. It’s fabulous, with lots of veggie options, and not a hard or time consuming set of recipes. It has rekindled my interest in cooking.
Anon
I love Rachael ray’s Express Meals. Easy and delicious and is what got me into cooking for my family. My husbands fave meal comes from it (spicy spaghetti and meatballs), there’s a chicken with leeks recipe I make at least twice a month, and so much more.
highlander
I like Vegetarian Cooking for Everyone by Deborah Madison, but my most used “cookbook” is the New York Times Cooking app, and the suggestions from its newsletters.
Birthday Dress
I’m turning 35 next month, and planning to go out to dinner with several friends (and new-ish boyfriend) to celebrate. I want to find a fun, flirty dress to wear – anyone want to do some online shopping?
I’m in DC, pear shaped, size 8. Fairly open on price. I’m finding dresses that either skew younger (I don’t mind form-fitting or low cut, but I’m also not going clubbing!), or are too conservative. Looking for that happy medium.
startup lawyer
Kika Vargas
Anon
Mara Hoffman has a great sale on right now, would be super cute for a birthday dinner.
Anon
I bought the Norma Kamali Diana One Shoulder Ruched Dress. No comment yet on fit (it hasn’t arrived yet). If you’re looking for more fun and flirty, try Anthropologie.
Anokha
I wore the Norma Kamali dress for a milestone birthday and it was a hit! (Unclear when I will get to wear it again. My life is not that glamorous.)
anon
Assuming you are open on price – Zimmerman is my sweet spot, especially if you can find it on sale. It sometimes looks a little wacky on the hanger but the dresses are all very, very well made and actually structurally sound enough for say a 30-something to wear a backless dress with no bra. Definitely a try on in store, as the sizing is Australian. Ramy Brook is also one of my go-tos, as is Ganni.
Anon
I feel like clingy knitwear is just a no for me.
Also noting: I bought new underwear and it is cut like UW from the 90s. So much stomach coverage! I thought I had ordered tummy control by mistake but it is just cut for mom jeans now / again. My older pairs feel very risqué by comparison.
Curious
I prefer mid rise pants and have been struggling with this!
Anon
Agreed! These won’t work with my mid-rise shorts come summer.
Anon
I don’t understand the complaint. One can buy high-waist briefs, hipsters, bikinis (all with regular or high cut leg), boy shorts, thongs—you name it, the cut is readily available. If you don’t want underwear cut for high-waist pants, then buy hipsters, bikinis or low-rise thongs. I mostly wear high-waist pants, and I buy high-waist briefs with high cut legs because that works under my pants. When I wore pants with a lower rise, I purchased my underwear accordingly.
Anonymous
Agree but I like the idea! I am stalking J.McLaughlin tops with collars as a polo alternative for stem/southeast (=lots of preppy dudes). Feels like a feminine upgraded version.
Anon
I hope they will continue selling high rise pants even if the trend is toward lower rises. I like my grandma panties and my grandpa pants!
I’m tall and have a very long rise. Mid rise pants on me are like low rise pants on others. I can barely keep them up.
Regular anon
Regular reader going anonymous here. I am doing a *big thing* today. Something I’ve been working towards for a long time and if today goes really well, I get to move on to the next step in this lengthy process. Would love all the good vibes. I am not nervous but I am weirdly seized with panic, if that makes sense. Send good thoughts!
pugsnbourbon
Sending you good vibes – you’re gonna crush it!
Curious
Best to you. A good friend is at a similar transition point, and everything she’s done prior set her up to rock it now. May it be the same for you :)
KS IT Chick
I bought a t-shirt with “Dear Self: You’ve got this” printed on the front in small type after I passed a major certification exam. This has become my motto.
You’ve got this. We believe in you!
Vicky Austin
VIBES!!!
Senior Attorney
VIBES!!! You got this!!!
NYNY
All the vibes! You’ve got this <3
Anon
good thoughts!!
Anon
Vibes to you!
Anon
If you’ve been able to build a habit of journaling, how did you do it? And do you journal on paper or digitally? I’d like to start but haven’t quite figured out how to build it into my routine… I like how much more quickly I can write on my laptop, but not sure I want laptop time right before bed…would appreciate any tips on what worked for others!
Liza
I keep a journal and a pen in the table next to the couch where I drink my morning coffee, and it has prompts to fill in so I don’t have to think that hard about what to write about. Also it sounds dumb, but the Uniball Signo Bold 207 pens are amazing and make it fun to write – find a pen you love.
anon
I write immediately after dinner clean-up on 750words.com – there’s something about having an unbroken chain right at the top of the page that’s really motivating.
anon
I started when I was 8 with a physical journal and a pen, and I leave it by my bed/carry it with me when I leave town. I’ve tried setting aside time to write which sometimes works- but when I am feeling big feelings or have notable thoughts I write them down. it has been enormously helpful to me.
Anon
I use a blank paper journal and pretty much take it with me everywhere I go. Anytime I am stuck (anxiety, feelings I want or need to work through, stress, etc.), I break it out to do whatever (sketch, doodle, write – whatever I need in that moment).
Anan
I have a Levenger Five Year Journal, and I write either before I go to bed, or first thing in the morning. I also have a Hobonichi Techo that I use to track things, which is different from journaling, but also I find helpful. For every day, I track: one thing I’m grateful for, how much time I spent outside, exercise, what I made for dinner, any media I consumed that day, whether I brushed my teeth (this is one thing I do need to track, or I forget!), and one thing I’m looking forward to. I also keep a time tracking log in my Techo.
My journal I use more to write down feelings and “good things” and “bad things” from the day and things I want to work on going forward.
Also – +1 to Liza’s comment about a pen. I ordered a pen sampler from JetPens and turns out I love fountain pens! I look forward to using it every day.
Davis
I have the Five Year Journal and love it! It’s very short so it feels like a tiny commitment I do before bed. I like how i can look back and see what I was doing/thinking about this same time last year.
Anon
My MacBook Air died. It won’t stay on for more than 20 minutes even when plugged in. I got it in 2015 so I think it’s time for a new personal laptop! Any suggestions? I could just get another Mac but also open to suggestions that aren’t $1,200, if that exists. I don’t need anything fancy, just relatively light and easy to work with. I have a company issued laptop so don’t need it for work. It’s strictly personal. I’d use the internet, streaming Netflix, and Microsoft office (word, Excel). TIA.
Anon
This is pretty much any sub-$1000 Windows laptop. If weight is an issue, you’ll get closer to $1000 than if it’s not.
I figure out what my priorities are – for the most recent laptop, it was weight, weight and weight, while for my last one that now lives plugged in at home, it was a 10-key keypad and an SSD, which weren’t as common in consumer laptops back when I bought it. Anyway, I am a Costco member, so I go on their website and in person, figure out what the best value is for a machine that has the couple of specific things I MUST have, and buy that computer.
Anon
Weight isn’t a huge issue because if I need to go into the office, it’s just my work laptop and I have no choice in that. I think I just get super overwhelmed with all the PC options which is why I bought a Mac 6 weeks before taking the bar exam. I really care about speed, memory, etc. Just basic computer functions and once in awhile maybe watching Netflix but it doesn’t have to be a perfect display.
Anon
That can be any Windows computer. I’d stick with Windows if you use MS Office. No need to spend a ton and anything for sale new is going to have plenty of computing power for what you will do with it.
Some people have an easier time going with a computer of the same brand as their work computer, because then you already know the rough lay of the machine. (ie, if your work is a Dell shop, you might have an easier time getting used to a Dell). I see lots of options from all brands in the $600-700 range that will suit you very, very well. Don’t stress about features, specs, speed, etc.
Anon
The HP Envy is a good PC alternative to the Macbook Air.
Anon
Maybe just get a new battery put in from the mac store? I don’t see why needing a new battery means you need a whole new laptop.
Anon
When a computer is 8-9 years old, I don’t think that’s going to fix things.
Anon
Yea I’m certainly going to try to schedule an appointment at an Apple store but obviously I’m going to be prepared to buy a new laptop and I’m doing my due diligence now.
Anon
She says it doesn’t run even when plugged in. That’s not the battery.
anon
Because the processing power is probably lower than you need to run many of today’s basic software packages (Microsoft Office, Adobe). And at some point the OS no longer updates which leaves the computer open to viruses and malware.
New Wardrobe
Sometimes you want a new laptop after 8 years, and that’s okay!
Anon
You can get a replacement battery and install it yourself. The replacements come with the tiny little screwdriver you need to remove the back. Then it is a simple matter of unplugging the old one, inserting the new one and screwing it back together. Yours is about the right age for the battery to die. Mine was $50-70 for a generic battery online.
Hypatia
I’ve been happy with apple products, especially from a cross-pollination across devices and security perspective. The last laptop I bought was certified refurbished, and I’ve had it so far for 5 years with no issues (obligatory knock on wood). Maybe that could be an avenue if you’re just looking for something straightforward and don’t want to pay retail
Anonymous
+1 to this. I stick with a Mac because I have an iphone and they work seamlessly together. I don’t buy new, I’ve bought phone and laptop refurbished and been happy with them. My local computer shop that fixes macs (not the apple store) also often has used macs for sale.
If you do stick with mac, i’d say it’s definitely time for an upgrade, simply because you need to ensure that you can keep your OS up to date, and that gets harder and harder the older your machine gets.
Lemon
I agree with the above, and I have gotten longer use out of all of my more expensive mac laptops than my husband has out of his cheaper PCs. (E.g. 8+ years vs. 2-3 for him)
Anon
I have an Asus VivoBook and I absolutely love it, but it’s a PC and might be kind of a big switch if you’re used to a Mac. I paid $700 for mine at Costco.
Curious
I would strongly recommend a Windows machine with a solid state drive and a mid-of-the-line processor (Intel i5 or higher). I got a disc drive with an i5, and the Windows background activity made the computer so slow the first 30 min after boot that I couldn’t do anything. We switched it to an SSD and no issues anymore.
Curious
sorry, this is if you go Windows.
Anonymous
Based on my experience with a variety of laptops for personal and work use, I can’t see myself buying another Windows machine and am counting the days until I am eligible to replace my work computer with a Mac. I have never had a Windows machine that was as reliable or long-lasting as a Mac.
Anon
Lately I feel a mismatch between the kinds of energy some friends and I are bringing to our catch-ups. Expectations around what a reasonable amount of time to text back is, what we want out of a catch-up (quick lunch between meetings downtown or long chatty weekend brunch?), and even what we talk about.
Another issue is that some people seem so much better when my life is going well but have no clue how to be supportive when I’m having problems… but conversely, some friends almost maybe enjoy it when I’m down on my luck and don’t seem able to rejoice in happier moments.
I love these people but I’m struggling with how to meet them where they’re at while still being true to what I want. Any advice?
Anon
I think you need to branch out and find some additional friends who suit you better (and vice versa).
anon
No advice, because I’m feeling the same way right now. I’ve pulled back quite a bit because it felt like get-togethers had become … unsatisfying? And I’m not really sure why other than chalking it up to an energy issue and/or a mismatch in what people actually want to commit to. As a result, I’m feeling somewhat lonely these days, but I also don’t have the energy to try to read between the lines all the time.
helloanon
You can always ask for what you want while recognizing that your desires may not align with your friends’. Someone has to give. If I want a 2 hour brunch but my friend only has time for a 30 minute coffee during the workday, I will make that work if I want to see my friend. I don’t get offended by it; it’s just a busy season of life for them. As someone who doesn’t really enjoy texting and really does not appreciate people acting like texts must be responded to immediately, I am probably not the person to weigh in there. :)
More generally, as I have gotten older, I have seen how friendships ebb and flow based on our lives and also our connection to each other. As I age, I find it is rarer to have lots of friendships like those of my youth, with whom I discuss every piece of my life in minute detail. Instead, I have friends I connect with on career topics, friends I get deeper with on personal issues, friends I see once a year for travel but casually text otherwise, neighbor friends I invite over for a casual weeknight happy hour to chat about books or pets. And some friendships have faded away. If you have friends who aren’t worth the relationship – especially if they seem to revel in your failures and not your success, it may be time to let that friendship go.
Anne-on
This, but I also give you full permission to fade away from/drop friends who are mean to you! It took me entirely too long to set limits/drop friends who were more like frenemies. Life is not a zero sum game!
Anonymous
Friendships ebb and flow over time. Stay in touch with people you like but you don’t have to be BFFs with everyone all the time. It’s ok if sometimes you’re closer to someone and sometimes you’re not. It seems like you have a pretty good handle on everyone’s strengths and weaknesses. Lean on people who are good supporters, celebrate with people who are good cheerleaders.
Anon
I’m really interested by this question and the answers in the thread because this started happening to me with a couple of longtime friends, a few years ago (pre-pandemic) and I chose to let the friendships kind of lapse rather than work to keep them going. And I have zero regrets about it. One of my friends had turned into kind of a “society gal/lady-who-lunches” and just wanted to talk about gossip related to the charitable cause/nonprofit board scene in our city (or, alternatively, her attempts to turn her dogs into social-media celebrities, which wasn’t going very well); the other had gotten really deep into new age religious stuff and that was all she wanted to talk about. I think we still had some core things in common, but when we got together, it was like people talking past each other because no one could really connect with what the other person was saying.
People change over time and it’s totally fine for people to evolve and develop new interests – and also totally fine for those interests not to align with someone else’s, and so the friendship kind of fades out. I still love those ladies and will always consider them to be friends – I will always cheerlead their accomplishments and wish them well – but I don’t necessarily need to sit through uncomfortable lunches or brunches, where it’s clear no one has a lot in common any more, just to say I did it.
Senior Attorney
Heh I would be totally entertained by that friend. Send her over here to sit by me…
Anon
+1 This sounds like the perfect brunch date to me.
Anon
Meeting people where they are means not having expectations like this. Just know who’s good for what – Jane, great for a text chat and drink after work, Jill, will never respond to a text but will be there for brunch all day if you plan two weeks out, etc. Then make plans with people according to what you need and what they’re good at.
Anonymous
Yes this. And pay attention to their actions not words. I have a friend I really love and would like to see more and she says she’s into it but in reality she is not- she’s happy to hang out twice a year max. And that’s a bit sad for me but also life is long and I’d rather enjoy the friendship she is able to give instead of ending it entirely.
Anon
No real advice, but I know what you mean. One issue that has really bothered me is that one of my best friends is like, afraid to hang out because it will be less time on her couch. We went through an elaborate process to plan a Covid safe trip together in 2021, but then she left two days early to veg at home (and I do mean veg – all she did was get groceries). At first I thought it was me, but then I noticed that she is planning all vacations to come home early and doing the same thing with other friends. TBH, I think society has undergone some fundamental changes in recent years, partially due to lock down, but not completely – it seems to go back to the whole “self care” thing. People feel comfortable bailing or prioritizing Netflix reruns over catch-ups with even their long-term friends. I’m also pretty sure the veg time didn’t help my friend feel any better or more relaxed – she described feeling anxious the following week when we caught up again. I’m not quite sure how to navigate it, but I think the answer is probably to find friends who want to be more active together and stick to the plans I’ve made when I commit to them.
Cora
I think its made peole a bit anti social tbh. Or used to having a lot of couch time. Which is great if it actually relaxes you, but as we’ve talked about here in different contexts, rarely fully does. I totally get having a extra day between vacation and work to transition. But going home early is a little much.
Anon
Yeah, I was annoyed that she left Friday morning (4 hour drive home) instead of Sunday morning like I thought she would. If she had left on Sunday, she still could’ve had many, many hours of couch time. Even leaving Saturday night would’ve been better – then we’d have two full days at the lake and she would’ve had a full couch day.
Curious
I need a couch day after travel now. Well, as much of a couch day as a toddler gives you. Planes just mess up my body.
Mpls
I get introvert hangovers like whoa now (wherein I have been sensory overloaded and then have no emotional regulation the next day – mostly as random crying and burned out on even basic coversation and decision making). Even after social events where I really want to be there.
So, recognize that this is her now and she might be a movie night buddy and not a travel buddy anymore.
Anon
I am also an introvert, but I don’t recognize that at all. I’m not sure that that’s what’s causing your symptoms.
Anon
Yeah I think this is more than being an introvert.
Mpls
I’m not saying it happens to all introverts, but it’s a thing that *can* happen after too much socializing (other places on the internet use the term). I’ve had it happen to me once pre-pandemic after a particularly heavy holiday social calendar. Have had it happen more frequently post-pandemic after spending 2 years in isolation (essentially) because of the pandemic (I live alone, was working from home).
I presume my tolerance for social interaction dropped and so I’m more sensitive to the stimuli that would drain an introverts social battery. And that may be happening to friend.
Anon
I mean, it sounds like she doesn’t want to go for as long as you do. There’s no one right way to travel or vacation.
I’m an extrovert but I hate a trip that goes from the day after work to the day before work. I need some down time!
anon
I gotta be honest it kinda sounds like you and your friends don’t like each other very much. I personally wouldn’t want my friends setting “reasonable expectations” around my texting turnaround time- they are not my boss. Do they really have “no clue” how to be supportive or are their ways of support simply not sufficient for you? And I’m often happy for my friends but not “rejoicing.” It sounds like you have very very high expectations/requirements and are disappointed that your friends, who are mere mortals, don’t measure up.
Also, don’t you know in advance whether you’re having a quick lunch or a long brunch? I would personally assume that if I’m meeting a friend in the middle of the workday it won’t be a long chatty thing…
Anon
Eh, I think OP just sounds young. These are the kinds of expectations that you learn are unreasonable as you get older.
Anon
Thank you for so nicely summarizing what I felt reading this post. Friends are not employees. OP you sound a lot like a girl who I used to share an office with, who brought all sorts of business-speak and mindset to her maid of honor role. I listened to conference calls where bridesmaids were given “expectations” and “metrics”, and I wasn’t at all surprised when the after wedding stories all centered around an “underperforming” wedding party. Ugh. Don’t be that person! No one likes her.
pugsnbourbon
Okay, that is wild. Did she give her bridesmaids an annual review?
River bird
Oh, to be a fly on the wall for that after-action debrief…
Anon
I read it the same way, like what in the frillyheck
IL
Pretty much everyone I know is running on an empty tank right now, including multiple colleagues who are taking protected medical leave to try and get their feet underneath them again. To the extent that I have friends that are still organizing get togethers, still reaching out via text and email, still sending holiday cards (every single holiday card I received this year came *after* Christmas!), I’m happy that they care enough to try. My advice is focus on what your friends are bringing to the table instead of spending energy on what isn’t happening right now.
Anonymous
This. Gently- op, being friends with you sounds like a a corporate job complete with performance appraisals. I don’t have the capacity for that kind of friendship and maybe your friends are in the same boat?
Anon
Ouch! Where are you getting that from? Maybe I wasn’t clear in my post, but it’s not me that wants the long brunches and faster text turnaround times—it’s my friends! I’m the one that feels like my energy and what I have to give isn’t at the level they’re at.
Anonymous
Your OP read the opposite way–they weren’t performing to your standards. Given this information, I would do a slow fade.
Curious
Oh, then we are all right there with you. Gosh, maybe time to have an up front chat about it?
Curious
+1 on multiple people taking protected medical leave. We are all just muddling through right now.
Anonymous
Are you on the quick text turnaround and long chatty weekend brunch side of things? It sounds like maybe some of your friends don’t have the capacity to be the deep emotional connection you need right now, so it might be time to make some new friends- but certainly don’t break up with the old ones!
Anonymous
This is a very transactional and one-sided way to think about friendship. Why don’t you start by thinking about how *you* can be a better friend? You might be surprised by the results.
Anonymous
Zanzibar travel recs? Overwhelmed by the resort options online. In search of good food and a private plunge pool to relax for a few days after a safari.
Anone
This sounds heavenly. Following and saving all recs in my Dream Travel notebook!
Emma
I went to Zanzibar as a broke backpacker so I have no fancy resort advice. I highly recommend visiting the spice plantation (sorry I forget what it’s called, this was 10+ years ago on my gap year), taking a cruise around the islands, doing some diving/snorkeling, and visiting Stone Town. I will note that Zanzibar was a little more tense than mainland Tanzania and I would not go walking around at night, but obviously in a resort you are very safe. At least that was the case 10+ years ago.
Explorette
I stayed at the north end of the island, and the drive there was the most stressful thing I’ve ever experienced. I had plans to visit Stone Town and other things, and never did it because I wasn’t getting back in a car. I’ve been in crazy driving situations all over the world, so I don’t say this lightly. It was very intense as Emma said. I went about 5 years ago. I’m only saying this so you can reset your expectations about what relaxing in Zanzibar is like. It was not the I’m done with my Big Thing and now get to veg out and read a book on the beach and be left alone experience. It was beautiful and fun and amazing, but it was not that.
Anonymous
I have a longer comment in mod, but agree with this. Also know that at all the beach resorts, there are tons of vendors on the beaches who will try to sell you things. It’s not a quiet get away from people and chill experience.
Anon
Agree with this. Have you considered Mozambique instead? I found that to be much more of a relaxing vibe than Zanzibar.
Anonymous
Do you like all inclusive resorts generally? I ask because we went for a few days after our safari and honestly, I wouldn’t have mind skipping as we didn’t particularly like it. We stayed at La Gemma Dell’Est Nungwi because the resort we had originally booked (Zuri Zanzibar) was new and wasn’t open in time. The room was great, the resort was probably a perfectly good resort but it turns out we are just not all inclusive resort people, and being around people was not our vibe, especially after 10 days of safari (which is by itself pretty relaxing). Also, unless they’ve improved it in the last few years, the Zanzibar airport is the worst airport I’ve ever been in, and I’ve been in some third world country random airports. Stone Town tour was cool, but I wouldn’t go just for that. And agree with the poster below that Zanzibar is kind of tense. If I was doing it again, I’d either skip beach days entirely or maybe try somewhere on the mainland Tanzania coast. The beaches aren’t any nicer than you get in the Caribbean.
Anon
Look at Zawadi! It’s a gorgeous location, has private plunge pools and the food is incredible. Just stayed for 6 nights after a honeymoon safari. It’s very private and only has 12 villas for 24 total guests.
anon
I’m quite behind on getting the ball rolling, but I’m looking for an easy spring break trip for me and my 8-year-old daughter. Would prefer somewhere warm(ish), but that may be hard to come by that time of year. I was thinking either Phoenix or San Diego would be possibilities. Flights to Florida are absurdly expensive from my particular location (mid-sized Midwest city) but I’d consider it. I don’t want to travel internationally. Any other ideas?
Anon
My kids and I went to Phoenix and they had a great time. Desert Botanical Garden, big resort hotel with lazy river and movies poolside each night. Acquarium is by a large candy shop. I had no choice — had a work event to go to there but found a travel nanny and a kids club at the hotel (JW Marriott Desert Ridge) and it worked out well for all.
Anonymous
San Diego. I was in Phoenix for spring break last year and it was cold. Like highs in the low to mid 60s. Pleasant but not good for the relaxing by the pool vacation I planned. If you want warm and won’t go to Florida or out of the country San Diego is your best bet and it’s a fantastic place to go with kids.
Anon
Spring break, if it is Easter-ish, is late this year — mid April.
Anon
In the Northeast, public school spring break usually meant mid April. In the Midwest, it usually means sometime in March. (Of course, these are generalities and every district is different.) My read is that the OP wants somewhere that would be warm in March.
Anonymous
Yeah it varies so much around the country. Here is is mid March. Agreeed late April Phoenix would be good!
Anon
Phoenix in late April would already be too hot for me. Personally I find mid-upper 70s a lot more pleasant than 90 but YMMV.
Anon
Midwest spring break is normally mid March. Ours is the week of March 13 this year.
NYCer
San Diego weather can be iffy in March and April too. Warmer than the Midwest for sure, but I don’t think you can count on it being beach or pool weather in SD. Florida (south Florida in particular) is much more reliably warm at that time of year.
Senior Attorney
Yeah don’t count on San Diego (or really anywhere in So Cal other than the desert) being warm in the spring. It’s not really reliably warm until July.
Anon
The average high in March in Phoenix is 77, so if you had highs in the low 60s you got very unlucky. I was there a couple weeks ago with my 5 year old and although it was mostly in the 60s we got one day where it broke 70 and we did go swimming. It wasn’t super fun for the grown-ups but my kid was in heaven. (Worth noting that virtually every resort in Phoenix/Scottsdale area seems to heat their pools to 80+, so the water itself was very comfortable even when the air temp wasn’t).
With a kid that age, I’d also suggest the Arizona Science Center, the Hole in the Rock hike in Papago Park (short hike with a cool view) and Scoop and Joy ice cream (they ask if you want a surprise and if you say yes they decorate the ice cream like a face). There’s also In-N-Out there which was exciting for me, since I used to live in California. I think it’s a great place for kids; mine really enjoyed it.
Anonymous
I mean agreed I was unlucky but why the snarky “if”? I’m not randomly lying about a vacation.
Anonymous
Oh, come on. How else was she supposed to phrase it? If it was cold, you were unlucky. It’s an if then statement, not doubt.
Nesprin
San Diego has a ridiculous number of kid appropriate museums in Balboa park (science museum, natural history museum, anthropology museum etc. ) + Sea world+ 2 world class zoos.
It’s not going to be great beach weather in April unless you’re coming from somewhere with snow and 50’s feels warm, but the beach is very pretty.
Anonymous
This may be kind of meh for a spring break trip, but what about a city like Houston or New Orleans? Good zoos, museums, and restaurants in both, and the weather should be pretty nice.
anon
Hmm, hadn’t thought about Houston, but I should look into that.
Anon
I found Houston really boring, but NOLA is fabulous and surprisingly good for kids. There’s a fantastic children’s museum there, and an aquarium. Plus great food. I think that’s a great suggestion, although it’s not likely to be super warm in March.
anon
San Antonio might work well. The riverwalk is a lot of fun and there’s good food that is still kid-friendly.
Anon
i would not go to Houston or San Antonio. I mean I guess they are fine if you’ve been everywhere else, but there are many other places I’d prioritize visiting prior
Liza
When is your spring break and what kinds of things do you like to do? Washington, DC can be warmish in late March/early April. This also happens to be the best time to see the cherry blossoms. You could do all the free Smithsonians, see the national monuments, archives, library of congress. DC is also kind of an adventure for kids because it’s walkable, or you can get on the metro which can be exciting. Also there are tons of ice cream vendors everywhere you go, and if your 8 y/o is anything like mine, any day where we get ice cream is a total win.
anon
Spring break is mid-March. We do enjoy sightseeing and being outdoors; not sure if my kid would be super into the museums yet.
PolyD
The great thing about the Smithsonians is they are free! So go see the dinosaurs in Natural History, then duck into American history to see the First Lady gowns and maybe one other thing. Then stop in Air and Space (note: this one now requires timed entry tickets, although is still free) and see a rocket. Or run around on the Mall for a while. I think there’s a carousel, although I’m not sure if it’s working.
And there are lots and lots of trucks selling ice cream all along the Mall.
Liza
Exactly, Smithsonians are perfect for trying out museums – tons within walking distance of each other, and if you get bored, you can immediately leave without feeling like you wasted $60.
Seventh Sister
Palm Springs? Lots of nature stuff, nice warm weather, hotels with pools, etc.
Senior Attorney
And you can take the ariel tramway up to the snow! Big fun!
Senior Attorney
aerial
Anon
I just booked a March spring break to Las Vegas for the kids and me. It was very reasonably priced, and there are lots of things to do with kids. I couldn’t afford Florida either.
Anon
Surprised by all these comments about airline tickets to Florida being too pricey. Our January tickets to Phoenix cost more than double our late February tickets to Florida. Generally I think of Florida as a cheap place to fly to because there’s so much competition from the low cost carriers like Allegiant and Spirit. I guess maybe it’s more impacted by spring break than other destinations.
anon
Florida is consistently ungodly expensive for us.
Anon
Vegas is a good idea too. Valley of Fire State Park nearby is beautiful and has lots of fun rocks for kids to climb.
Anonymous
Red rock is a similar national park nearby if you have a park pass too.
potatoes are nice
Readability of Project Plans
So, we have Troublesome Project. Every time, it’s like they’ve never heard of anything, even the people who wrote the Project. I need to write an easy to read schema that has the necessary checks built in. It needs to be word or ppt or something, because it needs to live past me and possibly go to people who don’t have special software. The Project is honestly not that complex, but People are not getting it.
Any ideas for judging/testing my Plan workup that doesn’t include sending it to Team until it’s almost final? They have no object permanence in the subject and I think they’ll be confused.
Anonymous
I mean they won’t read use or understand your tool. Unless your boss directed you to do this I wouldn’t bother.
Anonymous
I used to both manage big matrixed projects and also have a team of project managers report into me when I was in a C-level role. I found a red/yellow/green shapshot view that I could throw into an email to the C suite worked best. The executive with a red or yellow status would raise hell and I would throw an excel tracking spreadsheet his/her way. Everybody has excel. Don’t make it something they have to click to open- put it right in the body of the email.
potatoes are nice
Ooh. This could be effective. I can make dates color in excel and there’s one person here (who probably isn’t leaving any time soon) who could manage updating if necessary.
Curious
This is exactly it.
Anon
They’re telling you they don’t care about the project. Time to listen and assess where to spend your time. If you’re always doing unimportant busy work, start thinking about getting a new job.
potatoes are nice
Their million dollar grant and patient care demands they care.
Exit planning is in process.
Anonymous
Favorite eye drops? I had an allergic reaction in one eye on Tuesday. I suspect I scratched my cornea by rubbing too hard. The swelling went away that day but it’s still a bit red and itchy. The redness has subsided enough that it’s probably not noticeable to anyone else but obviously I notice it. I haven’t worn my contacts this week and today is my first day back in eye makeup (I know…), but is there anything else I can do other than give it time?
Anon
Systane ultra
Anon
I wear contacts and have gotten many eye infections throughout the years. I switched to dailies for that reason. I’d go to an eye doctor to be safe.
Vicky Austin
I like Refresh Plus for eye relief when my allergies are out of control, and drinking plenty of water doesn’t hurt!
anon
Hello from the land of pink eye. The Similasa pink eye relief drops are great for itchiness. The maximum red eye relief drops from Target are good too. but don’t help with the itching as much
MagicUnicorn
Systane Ultra drops for daytime and Refresh PM (the gel that comes in a little tube) for night.
The Refresh PM will leave your eye area greasy in the morning, but it makes a HUGE difference when my eyes get very irritated. I only use it right before I turn off the light at night because I can’t see through it for several hours. You apply a line of it on your finger, then kinda roll that into your lower eyelid, then blink until it gets distributed all over your eye.
Anonymous
Please go to the eye dr! They may put a protective contact lens in that eye for a few days to help it heal, and maybe antibiotic eye drops in case of infection.
Anon
Recommendations for a trip with my husband to Ashland, Oregon? We’ll be there in July after doing a rafting trip (close to the 4th, so may get crowded). We plan to reserve one day for mountain biking on Mt. Ashland and are considering driving to Crater Lake, but otherwise, we’ll want to relax and enjoy nature and do some swimming. I’d love recommendations for a place to get a massage, food, and things to do in the outdoors. We’re COVID cautious due to a high-risk condition and prefer outdoor dining/takeout/avoidance of large, crowded events. Recs welcome!
ArenKay
I love Ashland. The Oregon Shakespeare festival will be going on and they have outdoor performances; it’s fun. If you love cheese, Rogue Creamery is essential. Visit the wineries; Troon was my favorite. I had the best meal of my life at Mas. Lithia Park is green and great for rambling.
Anon
I would definitely see if I could catch a Shakespeare festival performance if I had an extra day in Ashland. This is the number one thing to do and anything else is a very distant second.
Anonymous
What makes a pair of loafers stylish and fresh vs out of fashion? I LOVE that women have more options for flats. I want to get all the loafers.
Here’s my problem: I’m a child of the 80s and almost all of these styles look hopelessly frumpy to my eye, like things my teachers wore in the 90s. I also suspect that clunky masculine loafers that look stylish on a thin beautiful 20-something maybe would not give me the same look. What should I look for? Avoid? I ordered two styles of Franco Sarto loafers and I can’t decide if they’re fresh or frump.
Anon
Unpopular opinion but I think they look terrible on most people. The only reason they’re “fresh” is here back in after being out for a long time. I’m into more comfortable shoes but skipping loafers in favor of fashion sneakers, which seem much cuter and easier to style.
Anon
Agree.
Anonymous
I just know them when I see them, but they are all going to look better with ankle pants than full-length pants, with the exception of platform or lug soles with long, wide-legged pants.
Liza
I’m not fashionable, but to avoid frump, I like a loafer that is more on the light/sleek side, trending toward a flat rather than a full on chunky loafer, like these:
https://www.nordstrom.com/s/tory-burch-ballet-loafer-women/6545910?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FAll%20Results&color=201
https://www.nordstrom.com/s/marc-joseph-new-york-carrol-street-penny-loafer-women/5569364?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FAll%20Results&color=101
https://www.nordstrom.com/s/michael-michael-kors-juliette-loafer-women/6691278?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FAll%20Results&color=200
pugsnbourbon
How fun are those Tory loafers in the aqua color??
PolyD
Yeah, I think avoiding beige and brown for loafers helps avoid frump.
Senior Attorney
I love the Mark Joseph penny loafers — just ordered them in white (I LOVE a bright white loafer!) and red!
Moose
To my eye, the stylishness of loafers is about the styling. Ankle-length pants vs. full length or cropped. Pairing the pants with items that are more current and not too classically preppy…basically contrasting the loafer with more edgy/fashion-forward or minimalist items. Also, loafers that are more edgy or have a more specific toe shape read more current to me. Some I like:
https://www.naturalizer.com/product/womens-desi-loafer-3028409/black-leather-ec0237815
https://www.colehaan.com/womens-viola-skimmer-flat-leopard/W27672.html
https://mavette.com/products/fiona-loafer-green
https://www.aerosoles.com/products/east-side-grey-lizard?variant=42986980245696
https://www.zappos.com/p/steve-madden-feather-loafer-flat-cognac-suede/product/8990482/color/4971?utm_source=google&utm_medium=pla_g&utm_campaign=15233555519&utm_term=pla-__iv_p_1_g_129811881099_c_560714090357_w_aud-299539597140:pla-1495180013179_n_g_d_c_v__l__t__r__x_pla_y_15872_f_online_o_43052198_z_US_i_en_j_1495180013179_s__e__h_9026839_ii__vi__&utm_content=43052198&zap_placement=&gclid=CjwKCAiA5sieBhBnEiwAR9oh2gTXcHouUpMVSneq0bm9VtdEBVGBwDLgKaQYFY-6b2q0dXvNBI-18hoCAaAQAvD_BwE&_ivgu=19ca9047-8750-4de0-9d91-96ba3cf56865
MagicUnicorn
Those Desi ones in your first link are speaking to me, loudly.
Anon
I have those cole haans (funny didn’t consider them a loafer). They’re the most comfy shoes in my rotation. love
Moose
Haha yeah, would agree they’re more loafer-ish. I think the vamp style helps it lean loafer. Definitely a good options for those who want that look in a lighter shoe.
Seventh Sister
Also child of the 80s, big clunky shoes make me feel even bigger and clunkier than I do usually as an apple-shaped, middle-aged mom. I found some driving-loafer-type ones from Cole Haan that I like, plus I have a Coach pair I bought a few years back that also seem flattering.
Anon
I felt as you do about loafers even though I’m really a child of the 80s. I’m not going to be wearing the lug soled ones, but they would be cute on my 21 year old daughter.
I bought these recently. I can’t decide if they’re grandpa shoes or cute, but I’m a sucker for blue patent leather, and they’re very comfortable.
https://www.dillards.com/p/naturalizer-adiline-slip-on-wedge-loafers/513301311
(They’re still dark blue but much bluer in person than they look in this pic)
Anonymous
Franco Sarto = frump.
A
Tods.
Anon
Checking in on the woman with the super controlling husband, and also checking in on the poster from a few days ago who works for a horror show of a boss. Thinking of you two.
KS IT Chick
Update on the Valentine Day date night dress with multiple conflicting events. I was able to find a forest green long sleeve wrap dress that will look good with low-heel boots that I feel good in! Add a a new bra and tights, and I think I have it figured out.
Anon
I saw a picture of Alex Murdaugh, the disbarred lawyer in SC who is on trial for shooting and killing his wife and one of his sons. In the picture from court on the first, maybe second, day of the trial, he is wearing a blazer, a button-up shirt with the top button undone (so no tie), and khakis. I know that dress standards are relaxed now, but that reads to me as very, very casual dress for a murder trial. Like if you are ever going to wear a suit, it is for your murder trial, yes? This isn’t a trip to the cigar lounge at a nice resort.
Liza
I’m sure he’s going for the “nice, upstanding, rich guy who would never do a thing like this” look. He wants to look like someone you would run into at the country club. Getting stuffed into a suit to show respect for the court is not the vibe.
Anon
Yes, in that part of SC the old money folks don’t wear straight ties. Bow ties if that’s your vibe, but that vibe reads I’m a quirky goofball not I’m a serious business man to me.
Anon
Right. I’m sure that dude owns some expensive suits and I am sure his lawyers told him not to wear any of them, as to not alienate the jury by giving off “look at me, I’m a rich privileged white guy!” vibes.
Vicky Austin
Perhaps he’s trying to pull a masculine Elizabeth Holmes. (Said with tongue firmly lodged in cheek.)
Anonymous
Disagree. If I was his lawyer, I’d want him to look like a clean cut suburban man; not a lawyer. (People hate lawyers) You’d be surprised how much thought goes into dressing a client for any trial. Fun story: A legendary lawyer in my area once had his personal injury client’s young children appear in court in Catholic school uniforms as school was getting out. They did not go to Catholic school but the jury was charmed nonetheless.
Anon
I had a friend wear a big giant Laura Ashley bow to court once (she was more of Ramones fan). I get it, but he does look like the sort of rich guy who’d kill his wife and son b/c 1) the wife was about to take him to the cleaners in divorce court and expose his dirty laundry and 2) the son’s drunk boating in his boat would probably would have wiped him out. It’s a very butter-wouldn’t melt in his mouth look. A bit too Thomas Ravenel, which isn’t a good look. Rich, but corrupt. Sort of like a Dominick Dunne character. A guy in Dickies or Carhartt wouldn’t look guilty; a guy in fancy casual dress would. Embezzlers are too slick like that.
anon
I actually know some of the Ravenels, and man is that dude an embarrassment to them.
Anon
Yeah, there’s a whole psychology in dressing as a defendant. I’m sure he had a consultant on this.
Anon
I feel like they erred in the finer details here. He is such a manipulator that it just makes him look slimy. Usually I could see Harrison Ford rocking a blazer and khakis, but he’s not doing it. He looks like this is taking him away from his golf game or skeet shooting and it’s annoying him.
Anon
Has anyone followed this closely enough to describe what his defense is? I thought it seemed pretty open and shut but I’ve only followed the high level news headlines.
Anon
It basically comes down to – he’s a good ol’ boy, he’d never do that! The principal claim (as I understand it) is that he couldn’t have murdered his wife and son because he’d gone to visit his mom (who has dementia, so can’t confirm or deny his account) and then was on the phone with a friend the whole drive back to the house. The defense says the timelines don’t match up but the prosecution created an alternative timeline that’s pretty compelling (speaking as an armchair true-crime detective).
This case is a gigantic onion, layer after layer. Judicial malfeasance going back generations. The juiced-in good-ol’-boy network in that area that protected the family for decades. The financial malfeasance, and the son’s boat accident, then Alex Murdaugh trying to kill himself but make it look like a robbery, on and on. The entire family is a complete trainwreck and has been for generations. The HBO series is a pretty good recap of a lot of the key points of the case; if you really want to deep-dive the Murdaugh Murders podcast is on something like 100+ episodes and she goes DEEP into every little aspect of the case. I can’t wait to see what happens in the trial. I have no idea how the jury will decide.
Anon
This is excellent! Thank you so much. I know the defense is not required to put up alternative theories but honestly who else would have done this? I’ll check some of this out.
Anon
I did a google image search for him. Aside from the photograph of him in a tuxedo (which is usually not considered business attire), he appears to usually wear a sport coat and slacks, no tie. Maybe it’s a regional thing. Maybe it’s his thing. Maybe his counsel suggested something different but he’s an arrogant SOB who thinks he knows better.
Anon
There’s a docuserues on this on HBO called Low Country something. I was glued to it.
That whole family comes across as extremely f-ed up.
Anon
Has anyone been on Prozac and had trouble losing weight? My spouse takes it for depression and has noticed that his weight is way less responsive to diet and exercise than his previous norm. We were discussing whether it’s the medication or simply getting older…any thoughts? He does have some concerning weight-related health indicators now and wants to take steps.
Anon
I’ve never taken Prozac in particular, but I’ve read that trouble with weight can be an issue with it. Psychiatrists sometimes add Wellbutrin because it can make weight management easier.
Anon
+1. I lost a lot of weight on Wellbutrin.
Anon
That’s a well known side effect.
Anon
+1
Anon
Really? My (admittedly not rigorous) googling kept turning up results that Prozac is “weight neutral” or not associated with significant gain…
Anon
There’s a counter narrative, but I feel it’s a bit defensive. “Actually, you just ate more because you regained your Joie de vivre!” Well I didn’t think I gained weight without eating, but I still want to manage my weight. Same as with birth control (“it wasn’t the pill; it was all the food you ate!”).
Anon
Yes when Prozac was new, I feel like everyone I knew went on it (they called it Prozac Nation for a reason) and just about everyone gained 10+ lb.
Anon
DH gained a significant amount of weight on Prozac. I think when I researched it, 8-10 lbs is considered normal weight gain, but he had gained 20 lbs in 3-4 months. He said he was just compulsively eating, hungry all the time, and really couldn’t stop eating. He switched to another medication and pretty immediately stopped gaining weight, though he has had trouble losing the weight he gained.
Flats Only
Yup. And when I stopped the Prozac I was able to lose the weight with a normal level of effort at diet and exercise. It was extremely frustrating.
pugsnbourbon
Ages ago my psychiatrist said, verbatim, “everyone gains weight on Prozac.”
Anon
Thanks all – this is helpful. It’s shocking how much the info on Google varies. I guess it’s big Pharma trying to make money :)
Anon
FOR SURE
Anonforthis
Yes. Absolutely.
anon
What do you do when you’re just really frustrated with life and your home responsibilities? No kids, am in therapy, and no immediate path to fewer responsibilities. It’s probably normal and I just don’t like being an adult very much. sigh.
Anon
I make those things easier. Throw some money at recurring problems. Plan things to look forward to. I stop being a martyr and take control over my schedule.
Cora
This is the only thing that really makes a difference for me. Pay for laundry wash-n-fold. Order groceries (this helps a lot!).
Anon
Have more fun. Play more. Escape the grind for a full day in nature trying something new.
Anon
Realize that any high standards I have are mine and mine alone and relax the F out of them. No one cares (or dies) if my house isn’t super tidy, the dishes stay in the sink overnight, the law doesn’t get mowed today, etc., so I don’t either.
nuqotw
Can you take a vacation? When too many tasks are competing with each other, its a sign to take a break.
AnonQ
Happy to suggest recommendations if you give specifics. I have vastly simplified my home life by assigning chores to days so I spend 10-15 min cleaning a day rather than wasting a Sat morning. It means the whole house is never spotless at once but I don’t care. I also barely cook. I have a bunch of quick meal ideas at the ready (yogurt and fruit, eggs, grain bowl, etc) that are mostly just assembly required. Saves me tons of time.
Anon
Throw money at the problem, if possible. Seriously not trying to come off entitled or privileged, but if you can go a few weeks with a house cleaner or buy groceries on Instacart, do it! Also, know what rubber balls you can drop and drop them!! Keep the glass ones whole.
Anon
How’s your relationship with your parents? Can you go see them for a few days, and would they wait on you hand and foot the way I do when my college aged kids come home?
I think they based Back Home Baller on my house.
Anonymous
Oh, wow. I didn’t really know this was a thing. Whenever I have been home since moving out at 17 it’s been “We are so glad you are here to do all the projects we saved up for you to do/help us with. I’ve done the shopping and here are the recipes I’d like you to make for each meal. I will help with the cooking by sighing when you are either not doing it the way I would or not doing it on the schedule I have in my mind but won’t be sharing with you at any point.”
Anonymous
Yeah, this UMC white people thing where they live to serve their adult kids is absolutely wild to me. I know an older woman who is so excited that she has time to herself now that her grandkids are all in school because she has been providing free full-time child care for years. Absolutely inconceivable. I am from lower-class white people. When my mom comes to visit I wait on her because it is the only vacation she ever gets.
Anon
Lol!! My parents are perfectly fine people, but they don’t even offer to stock vegan food for me when I come. I havé absolutely no problem bringing my own stuff, I am a full grown adult, but the variations on families is never not wild to me.
Sarah
Help me pick date night outfits, 2nd/3rd dates with men I based on apps:
1 – Friday night, Italian restaurant. Was thinking a leather skirt and a sort of low cut top.
2 – Weekend day, casual brunch and then museum
Moose
Restaurant – Feel like you can wear whatever you feel awesome in and be fine. Leather skirt sounds dope, but for me sitting in that for long periods may be an issue.
Museum – Would focus on being comfortable on your feet, then build your outfit around that. For me, I probably do denim and a sweater I feel cute in.
DeepSouth
1. Outfit sounds spot on.
2. Most flattering jeans, fashion sneakers and a V-neck cashmere sweater.
Anne-on
I am crampy, sore, headache-y, and generally crabby and annoyed at the world. Favorite light movies/TV shows so I have something to look forward to tonight after work?
New Wardrobe
I’ve been watching Bad Sisters on AppleTV and loving it. It’s a dark comedy.
Anon
Bad Sisters is NOT the right show for this situation. If you want Irish, do Derry Girls! Or, other light options, Great British Bake Off, The Lost City, Ticket to Paradise, or The Afterparty
Anon
I loved that show so much. It would have worked for me in OP’s situation.
People always recommend light and fluffy stuff but I usually hate things like that (looking at you, Emily in Paris) because it’s so cliche and badly done.
Moose
Been in enjoying Celebrity Jeopardy and the new episodes of Antiques Roadshow. Also, Rutherford Falls is fun.
Light Bedtime Viewing
* Emily in Paris
* Kimmy Schmidt
* Never Have I Ever
* Red Oaks
* YifLife Crisis
All are on Netflix of Amazon except YidLife Crisis (which you can find online by using a search engine that starts with a G – trying to avoid moderation).
Anon
So relieved this is Yid and not Yif
Light Bedtime Viewing
Sorry about that. Auto-correct failure. The episodes are very short, but hilarious. We were sorry when they ended. There was one special (I think for Pesach) in 2020 or 2021 that was fun, too.
anon
Four More Shots Please! on Amazon Prime is delightful.
For something a little lower energy, The World’s Most Extraordinary Homes on Netflix is also delightful.
Senior Attorney
I love that Netflix show so much. There’s a similar show about hotels on Amazon Prime but you have to buy the BBC channel to get it.
Mpls
Leverage Redemption (or the original) streaming on Freevee. Heist of the week where the bad guy always gets a comeuppance.
Liza
Never Have I Ever was soooo goofy and bingeable, I absolutely loved it
pugsnbourbon
If competition shows don’t stress you out too much, we love Glow Up and Blown Away on Netflix.
pugsnbourbon
Oh and What We Do in the Shadows!
Anon
My ultimate veg out show is Chopped!
Anon
I just started S3x Lives of College Girls on HBO and am loving it.
anon
The Good Place on Netflix
Senior Attorney
Best show ever.
Scary Smart
Has anyone else read Scary Smart by Mo Gawdat? I am about halfway through and would love to hear others’ reactions.
Bootcut is Back!
Alright ladies, I wandered into Veronica Beard this weekend and came away with a few pairs of flared jeans and pants. Aside from feeling like I’m back in college, I actually think they’re pretty flattering. I’ll never give up my ankle pants, and think skinnies and boots will always have a place in my wardrobe (hello snow), but now I’m finding I might need to add a few new shoes to this updated silhouette since it requires a little heel. Any recommendations for great wedges or chunky heels that can go under a flared pant?
Anonymous
Are you asking for wedges and chunky heels because you prefer to wear those over a slimmer heel? Because trends and fashion indicate a slimmer heel but I totally get not wanting to wear those.
OP
Which would you rather marry:
A) a nice and solid rich guy
B) a guy who makes around the same as you but you have a very deep emotional/intellectual connection with
I feel like I have the deepest emotional connection I could with my BF, but we make about the same amount of money (I make $190k after bonuses, he makes $150k). Meanwhile, we have a few friends in our social circle who are on track to be super rich in their thirties. Most of them are not great guys and honestly kind of annoying, but some of them seem nice enough (granted, I don’t know them very well). I have this tiny nagging feeling that I’m making a mistake by not trying to date one of the nice-enough ones who will potentially have tens of millions later on and allow an easy/abundant life…
Pep
The saying goes “If you marry for money, you’ll earn every penny.” I would marry the deep connection guy.
Anon
Boy did that come true in my family. My sister is now divorced from him with many many emotional scars. Good news is she’s on her way to making her own riches by kicking ass at her job. It’s much better to just earn your own money.
KL
Would you rather be rich than happy? If so, there’s your answer. Also, season 1 of White Lotus might be relevant for you.
Personally, I cannot fathom being in a relationship with someone I am not deeply in love and compatible. No amount of money would change that calculus for me.
Anon
I think Season 2 is relevant too
Anonymous
With a combined income of over $300k you can already live an easy/abundant life. And if you want to make millions, what’s stopping you from doing it? My choice is B, no question.
Anon
“And if you want to make millions, what’s stopping you from doing it?”
Right. This is some retro-regressive BS, that your only way to get money is to marry it. OP, if you want to be rich, that is within your power to try to create for yourself. Rather than figuring out whether or not you should marry a rich guy, maybe invest some of that energy into starting a side hustle or your own business that you can scale into something that will provide you with the lifestyle you want. No one else is obligated to provide you with the lifestyle you think you deserve, but you.
anonshmanon
So much this. At this income, you can afford easy. Extra money wouldn’t be where I would go looking for more contentedness. Especially not if I had a good relationship.
Sybil
This is one of the grossest things I have ever read here.
Anon
How come?
Anonymous
Agreed. The thought process that goes into deciding to post this is wild.
anon_needs_a_break
right?
god if this is the kind of person who comments here I’m gonna look for another board…
Anon
Right. For so many reasons, but I’ll just put out there that making almost $350k as a couple makes you rich anywhere.
Anon
Yup. This salary puts you in the top 1-2% of the US income wise.
Anon
Actually… the top 1% makes about double that. The income at the top has really shot up in the last decade.
Now, $350k is still very well off, especially if they are in their late 20s or early 30s.
Anon
But it drops off very fast. I think $340k is top 2%, even though top 1% makes more than double that. The very rich have gotten richer but the number of very rich people hasn’t grown very much.
Anon
$343,000 was the top 5% in 2020. It might be higher now.
Anon
Top 5% in the country is still rich by any measure. So is top 6% or 7% if the numbers have changed slightly. Maybe she doesn’t FEEL rich because there are people who have more than she does, but objectively, she is.
Anonymous
Me and my husband make 1/10th of what OP, alone, makes (in another country, politically and economically unstable). I’m so impressed that OP doesn’t think she has an abundant life.
Anon
I agree.
Moose
Yup, it would be a DREAM for me and my husband to make that kind of money. The need for perspective here is dire.
Anonymous
Agreed
Anonamoma
I immediately thought that this HAS to be a tr0ll. Like, this cannot possible by real, right? To be making ~$340K (presumably in your 20’s or 30’s since we’re talking about dating around) and to think that’s somehow the low earning potential option? It would be one thing to have a deep connection with a man who can’t hold down a job or makes minimum wage or something. But $150k? This has to be a male tr0ll who wants to make women on this board look like vapid gold diggers, right?
Anon
No there are a lot of women here who think $300k+ isn’t a liveable salary. There have been numerous discussions to that effect before. It’s wild to me because I make half that and feel rich. But a lot of women here have a different standard of living.
Anon
Yes! It’s always insane to me. Even in a HCOLA, these people are rich. Even in San Francisco, a household making $340k per year is in the 91%. If you cannot make it when you are earning more than 91% of families in your city, then I don’t know how to help you.
Anon
I threw up in my mouth a little
Monday
After reading Option A, I assumed Option B was going to be someone who makes far less than you do, or who doesn’t work at all. The choice of someone I have a connection with and makes the same amount of money as I do is a total no-brainer. In addition to the hard work of being married to someone for money, there’s the ethics of using someone you don’t like for his income, and the fact that one person holding all the financial cards can play out in a lot of ways that do not make for an “easy and abundant life” for the other spouse over a lifetime.
I’d say both existing seasons of The White Lotus speak to this!
Anonymous
+1 Y’all make plenty, and have earning potential to spare. Prioritize compatibility and connection, that is what will get you through the tough times in life!!
Anon
While I agree that astonishing wealth does change your life, I also feel that if you struggle with envy (maybe the wrong word, but you take my meaning) or joy when pulling down $350k between the two of you in your early 30s, you’re going to struggle with envy, joy, etc no matter what.
Anon
Right. The real answer here is that OP needs to work on herself, because even asking this question is an indicator that there’s some kind of deep vacancy in her soul that’s leading her to think she should choose a partner based on money, and not on love or fundamental incompatibility.
On the other hand, if she’s a shallow gold-digger and she finds a shallow rich guy, that could be a match made in heaven – until the inevitable cheating scandal and ensuing divorce. I mean, she could be one of the next Real Housewives!
ArenKay
Couldn’t agree with Anon at 1:15 and 1:22 more. Think about how your BF would react if you showed him this thread, OP.
anon
I think if you’re comparing yourself to friends who will be super wealthy, and want to marry someone just so you have a financially easy life (when you already make more than my HHI in a HCOL area) you’ll likely have a pretty unhappy life no matter who you marry.
Anon
There are studies that beyond a certain amount of money, more money doesn’t make you happier. And the threshold is lower than you might think (definitely less than you make). $340k in household income is going to give you a pretty nice lifestyle in virtually any part of the US, and if you really want a “fancier” lifestyle you can move to a city with a more modest cost of living. My husband and I combined earn less than you do alone and we feel fabulously wealthy, although we’re in a LCOL area. But I honestly don’t know what I would do with $10M, other than save it and give it away. There’s just really not anything that I want that I can’t buy.
Anon
I guess I should say that if I had $10M I could quit my job and live a life of leisure and volunteering, which would be a positive change for me. But I wouldn’t do that if it were my husband’s money, only if I were independently wealthy. I think quitting my job and relying on my husband’s money would make me feel too guilty, plus there’s the practical issue of what happens if he divorces me, although I guess the latter can be addressed by a pre-nup or post-nup. But I would view my husband’s wealth very differently than winning the lottery or inheriting millions from my parents, let’s put it that way.
pugsnbourbon
But often the people who make $10 million don’t quit their jobs. They keep working and working and working because they always want more.
It’s an N of 1, but I’m loosely acquainted with someone extremely wealthy and he’s not a happy person. He won’t stop, he won’t even slow down, even though he has an unholy amount of money. To the point where he’s screaming, throwing things, etc in meetings. He could live several luxurious lifetimes on the money he has but he’s going to work himself to death instead.
Anon
Oh I agree, just saying that if *I* had $10M I would quit my job, and that would be nice. But only if that money were really mine, not my husband’s.
Anon
I have an n>1 in my personal circle of people with eight figure net worths, and many of them feel like they won at life. They might keep working because they can give it away to causes they care about (usually, the kids get enough to keep the wolf away from the door; their colleges get millions earmarked for financial aid). Marriages until death do them part. But the money isn’t the marker of success for them.
Anon
I think those studies are BS. I agree with the idea but I once read it was $75K and you cannot live comfortably in NYC on $75K these days unless you have roommates or a lower standard of living.
Anon
I agree it needs to scale for inflation and cost of living. But there is definitely a point at which additional money adds little to no value to your life, and it’s a LOT lower than $10M. I think $75k sounds about right actually, if you’re in a household with a partner who makes similar and in a low cost of living area but if you’re single or living in a HCOL area it would be higher.
Anon
(Also this board is very coast-centric, but most Americans don’t live in NYC or SF. So a study looking at the general population wouldn’t be focused on NYC’s very high cost of living.)
Monday
As someone who made exactly $75k for several years recently, I remember thinking those studies seemed to be about right–and this was without combining incomes with any partner, and living alone. There wasn’t really anything I wanted (let alone needed) that I couldn’t afford on that salary, even in a fairly HCOLA. Maybe I had a “lower standard of living,” but I don’t think it was anything that affected my happiness.
Anon
I think also a lot of things that require more money are related to the jobs that pay more money. Like Big Law lawyers need the megabucks because they need to live close to work and buy nice clothes and outsource all their household chores. But when you get away from that lifestyle and work more reasonable hours, you can subsist on a lot less.
anon
Definitely anon for this, but I can honestly say that after a certain point, you don’t really notice the extra money as it doesn’t really go to day-to-day expenses anymore. At least for us, it was probably around 300k combined.
Anon
“Definitely anon for this, but I can honestly say that after a certain point, you don’t really notice the extra money as it doesn’t really go to day-to-day expenses anymore. At least for us, it was probably around 300k combined.”
We hit $250k last year and we’re definitely at a place where all of our material needs are more than covered; we’ve got plenty of money in the bank for whatever; and the extra money we are making is just going into the 401ks. We’re very lucky to be in this position and I never want to discount that. But we have simple tastes – hiking, cycling, cooking and reading are our primary hobbies – and while you can spend any amount of money on anything you do, there’s a point at which you kind of look around and say “this is good” and more money isn’t going to equal more happiness. If someone is not chasing the private jet/live-in help/Instagram influencer level of lifestyle, they can be pretty darn happy on much less money than they think. The thing I am most grateful for in my material life is my amazing employer-sponsored health plan, which will really help us if we have a health crisis. If I had to choose between a bigger house and a Mercedes and my health plan – I’d choose the health plan!
Anon
Yeah we’re at that point on a combined income of $170k. We have everything we want in terms of day-to-day life (nice house, nice vacations, plenty of takeout/restaurants, cleaning and yard service, cool camps and experiences for our kid) and extra money in the form of raises or bonuses just goes into the bank at this point. Having one kid and living in a LCOL area are definitely factors, but I can’t imagine not feeling comfortable on $350k.
Anon
I could see if you’re earning $350k in your late 40s or early 50s (ie don’t have decades of pulling that down), had your own grad school loans, live in a HCOL area, and have three kids, you might struggle to put them through private college.
We earn about $170k combined in a LCOL area, and the ability to pay for my one kid to go to my alma mater is the one thing I can’t afford. Otherwise, we have enough and more money would only really buy us some buffer against a layoff before we are ready to retire.
Senior Attorney
I don’t know, man. I’m under $10 million and if I had another million or two or three, I promise you it would make me a lot happier. I’m pretty danged happy now but more trips and more parties? More charitable opportunities? Yes, please.
That said, the reason I’m this happy already is because I have a wonderful husband whom I love. I wouldn’t trade him for all the money in the world and I am not even kidding.
Anon
Unless you’re retired or planning to quit your job, if you’re an upper middle class American your ability to take vacations is usually limited by vacation time, not money. Our income is lower than OP’s and PTO is the limiting factor for us, not money (and I have more PTO than most Americans). If I had only 2-3 weeks like many Americans, we wouldn’t even get close to draining our vacation budget.
Anonymous
B. Obviously clearly by miles. I can’t fathom contemplating A. Please break up with your boyfriend I will gladly take him off your hands and value him as a person. I don’t need a sugar daddy.
What?
I mean, obviously B. How is this even a question?
anon
I’m not going to lie, my answer might be different if the answer were between your BF’s income and a solid guy vs. a fun/exciting guy with debt, bad financial habits, or making less than $50K.
But a good man you have a deep emotional connection with that makes $150K while you make even more?? Even one of those salaries are enough to have a comfortable family life, with two, I’d consider you already rich!!
Of course, there will always be wealthier friends with more glamorous lives. But if you’re asking yourself this question, is your connection with your BF as deep as you think? If I made $150K and my partner thought I wasn’t wealthy or successful enough compared to their friends’ partner and was considering whether to be someone for their money, it would make me reconsider the relationship entirely.
anon
ugh pardon the typos. I need to stop commenting from my phone.
Anon
OP, if you are so readily thinking about life with other men, are you sure you really love or have that strong of an emotional connection with your BF? I get thinking in the abstract, and maybe that is all that you are doing. But if you want to play the field and see what’s out there, maybe you are not ready to commit yet.
As for marrying for extreme $$, life still happens. He could die, become disabled, leave you for a younger woman, be terrible behind closed doors, get laid off in a recession or cut out of a top position in a corporate merger, lose your joint $$ in stupid investments ….
Liza
Right, 100%, the question she’s asking isn’t really the question she has. OP has doubts about her bf, for some reason. She should explore that. The rich guys lurking around her social circle are red herrings.
Senior Attorney
Totally agree with this. Otherwise it wouldn’t even be occurring to you.
Anon
He could be Alex Murdaugh, be embezzling from his law firm and clients, and have someone arrange to kill you and your son…..
(This is not a slam against Mrs. Murdaugh, just pointing out that your #1 goal in marriage is someone who will fly right and put you first.)
No Face
Deep connection, not even a question.
If what you want is tons and tons of money, change your life so that you earn tons and tons of money.
Anon
Omg no! I make more than my bf and always will. I’ve dated men who made double what I made at the time and went on a date with a guy who was in his 30’s and a retired tech millionaires, if not billionaire. Go for the nice guy. That doesn’t change and money can change. If you marry the rich guy, get a great prenup and be prepared to be nothing but arm candy until he trades you in for a younger model after you pop out some kids and don’t look like a hot young 20/30 something year old anymore.
Anon
In my opinion, a good relationship with someone who is emotionally and mentally on the same page is just about the most valuable thing I can imagine having. This is a no brainer for me even at radically different incomes.
anon
Are you for effing real? You and your BF are not poor. Marry the person you love.
busybee
I don’t think she loves her BF if she’s considering dumping him for a hypothetical richer guy.
Anonymous
Doesn’t sound like she knows (or cares) what love is. Definitely tuned in to what superficial success looks like though.
Anon
I’m not sure she does love him ….
Anon
I was in a relationship with a nice guy in college and his parents were really wealthy, and they gave me a lot of nice things that I couldn’t begin to afford (examples including a $1k Burberry trench coast, multiple trips abroad, use of a BMW, paying the rent on a really nice apartment, paying for a housekeeper, etc.) In the beginning it was so great but I started to feel really bad about myself, and buy the end of the relationship I even started to feel like a prost1tute even though the relationship hadn’t been transactional at the beginning and it wasn’t like I made a conscious choice to date him because his parents had money. I would love to be super wealthy, but not if I get there via dating or marrying someone.
And actually fwiw his parents weren’t “rich,” they were just big spenders who carried a lot of credit card debt. My own parents live a very modest lifestyle but have a much higher net worth. So consider whether that’s the case with your friends as well.
Anon
Please do your boyfriend a favor by leaving him now if this is how you think of him. Ick.
Vicky Austin
Kindly, you have no idea if the “nice-enough” guys are actually nice enough, and is “nice enough” how you want to live your life? You have a good connection with your BF; that’s a great thing. Ignore the tiny nagging feeling and maybe read Dear Sugar’s Ghost Ship essay.
Anonymous
So gross. Why aren’t you out there making the big bucks, OP? How would you feel if your boyfriend posted this question?
FWIW my friends that are super rich are:
1) a dual working couple where he runs a PE firm now and she’s a partner at a massive law firm. They make easily $4M a year but they work for it!
2) a couple where she has all the money- her dad founded what is now an F50 company. He has a job, she has a job, but their $5M home is from her trust fund, not her W2.
Liza
Are you sure that both A and B are both options? You forgot option C: no spouse at all. Rich men have a high SMV, even kind-of-annoying ones. Certainly I think given your question you should try dating some of the guys in Category A and see what happens.
Also, I get the feeling your BF doesn’t make “around the same as you” in your eyes. He makes less, and I think for some couples this can be very challenging. I’ve seen it rip apart my friends’ partnerships, even if the woman is cool with it. It goes like this (man makes less than partner) –> (man feels insecure) –> (man has low self esteem) –> (man begins to feel bad about his life) –> (man starts acting like a jerk/lashing out/cheating) –> (relationship ends). Does this resonate with you at all? Disclaimer: not all men, not all partnerships, blah blah blah.
Anon
Why would nice and solid rich guy want to marry you?
ChiAnon
Ok, let’s tone down the snark please
Anon
It’s kind of rude to say but I think it’s an important point for Op to consider. If a young guy has millions, there’s going to be a lot of women interested in him. The guys that I know who are this rich are well aware of that fact and don’t treat women very well even though they’re “nice” guys in other aspects of life.
Anon
A painful but important question. At least from what I have seen, the women who set out to land rich men rarely do. The demand is far in excess of their supply and they often choose accomplished women who aren’t going to take them to the cleaners.
OP
I guess just based on past experience from dating and being in social groups, I’ve had a lot of guys get infatuated with me or show a lot of positive validation. I’m pretty, super smart, very sweet and emotionally perceptive, and connect easily with people. Also I guess just funny and charismatic. I think I’ve probably internalized too much of the sense that I can have anyone, which obviously isn’t true at all, and it’s a good reframe not to be entitled into thinking anything I want is an option. Though I do feel that there are just a lot of nice-enough guys who make tons of money that it wouldn’t be impossible to find one who’d want to marry me.
All of this is entirely hypothetical though and was more interested in people’s thoughts. I love my BF and would never break up with him, but just was curious about if it’s an adaptive or practical way to think.
Anon
Listen, I’m very pretty, very smart, funny, comfortable in all situations, blah blah blah too, but I’ve never once considered trying to date for money first. So no, I don’t think it’s practical or adaptive (?), and I think it works out for far fewer women you think it does.
My boyfriend is a teacher and I make over 2x his income and he is one of the most genuine, kind, funny, smart, lovely people I know. I wouldn’t trade him for someone half as good who has $10m in the bank. I have everything I need and pretty much everything I want from a monetary/purchasing perspective.
Anon
You sound….interesting. This post sounds like a therapy session for you where you would never say any of this out loud to people who know you.
OP
Of course! I’d never say any of this aloud and don’t stand by it on an ethical or logical level. More just a neurotic / nagging thought I wanted insight into. This has been really helpful and grounding in terms of providing evidence against an irrational thought.
Anonymous
Dont worry you aren’t that great
Anon
This!!!
Senior Attorney
Seriously you sound like a sociopath. Or somebody applying for a job at a high end escort service.
anon
As someone who is 10 years into marriage (a happy one, fortunately) I can’t begin to tell you how foundational it is to have that deep emotional and intellectual connection and shared values. Nothing will make up for its absence. there are just so many ups and downs that will really try you, and not picking a total match is adding additional hardship that you don’t need to have, given that you’ve met someone who is a good match. And I might add, finding someone who’s that kind of good match doesn’t come around all the time.
Anonymously
While B is the obvious answer to me, I don’t think your question is necessarily ridiculous. There is something to be said for having a life where you don’t have to worry about money. I think that kind of a life can be really worth it. However, I can’t think of a greater blessing than having a romantic partner with whom you have a deep emotional connection that is reciprocated. That is really hard to find and much much more valuable than marrying a potential millionaire who is just nice enough. Moreover, your combined income with B will give you plenty options on lifestyles – you can be quite comfortable with that income. If it were me, B would be the easy choice.
Anon
If you are asking this question, you shouldn’t think about marrying your BF. The end.
Anon
You are rich. So is your boyfriend.
Trish
Is this real?
A
B
Anon
Yeah I don’t think she loves him.
Anonymously
In need of some career advice and would love input from you all.
I have been practicing as an attorney for many years – I started off at firms, and then moved in-house. I did very well in-house and rose to a very senior position in the legal department in my last role. My background is very broad – includes litigation, significant transactional experience marketing, and talent/influencer work. My broad experience actually made me pretty useful in my previous in-house role and I enjoyed doing a variety of work – I managed litigation, served as lead attorney on influencer marketing, second lead on marketing in general, handled various transactional and talent deals, etc.
I was presented with a career opportunity last year that I took – the opportunity has been wonderful, but it took me off my in-house track. The opportunity was to start a captive litigation law firm for a company. I was specifically recruited for the opportunity through a contact I had. I started the captive firm last year, and honestly, it really has been a positive experience and I am very grateful for it. It has been interesting getting back into the role of outside counsel.
The challenge is that my contract will come up for renewal in the next year and I don’t think I will renew, even though the experience has been positive. I am not inclined to renew for a couple of reasons (1) I miss the variety in my work. I am doing only litigation now, and in a very specific area of the law. I don’t want my previous experience to go stale and I am not ready to give up the significant transactional – particularly marketing – experience and background I have. (2) I worry that the longer I stay in my current role, the longer it will be to move back to an in-house role. I worry that if I stay away for more than a couple of years, I won’t be able to return to an in-house role without a significant pay cut.
My issue is this – the company for which I am a captive is wanting to do things to promote and further establish my captive firm. But given I likely won’t renew, I need to find a delicate way of keeping them from making further investments. They’d like to plan an event in the next few months and want to give me a starring role. I don’t feel great about that because I will likely terminate my contract months after that. I’m not sure how to handle the situation. Any thoughts, recommendations?
Senior Attorney
OMG don’t leave before you leave! What would a man do? He would take all the training and benefits and make the most of them. My recommendation is to do what a man would do and lap it all up.
Anonymous Canadian
Excellent advice, as per usual from SA