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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
These cropped pants were a top seller on Prime Day earlier this week, but even at full price, they’re very reasonable. If the paper bag waist trend is something you want to try out without making too much of an investment, these pants would be a great option.
They come in a HUGE range of colors (at least 25 listed here), but this olive green color is really speaking to me. Olive is a great neutral, pairing well with black, white, gray, navy, tan, or even a dark purple.
The pants are $19.99–$45.99 at Amazon and come in sizes XS–3XL.
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
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Anon
I am kind of freaking out about the Miami Beach-area condo collapse. I know that eventually we will know why this happened. Today, though, I don’t. I’ve been to the area dozens of times, always somewhere beachfront, always on a high-ish floor in a similar type of building. And not just in that area, but other seaside places along the East and Gulf coasts. Tomorrow I’m supposed to drive for a week-long stay (on a high-ish floor, but not the top floor) in a different state in a similar building.
If there are any structural engineers reading this, is there a quick way to know if a building will collapse imminently? I remember when some schools collapsed in China (shoddy building by shoddy companies where government inspection standards aren’t really a thing), but like someone on CNN said last night, buildings just don’t collapse here. Absent an Oklahoma-City / 9-11 precipitating cause, how does this happen?
[I am hoping that that new infrastructure bill gets some $ diverted to this — it is really unnerving me and probably others who live/work/travel in similar structures.]
Anonymous
Not a structural engineer but I work for a geotechnical firm and have some basic knowledge about building foundations – if you start to see cracks, esp large cracks in your walls and foundations, something is being stressed beyond its bearing load capacity and could lead to building collapse. There may be a bunch of factors for this condo; it’s definitely too early to know what combination caused it, esp as it was a very localized collapse.
Anonymous
Another thought – the local soils & geology may have been a part too. A lot of work my firm does is to evaluate the soil before construction to see if it can support the types of proposed buildings, and if not, propose importing better soils for structural reasons or changing foundation type or various combinations thereof. I don’t know Florida geology at all, but near where I live, there have been building collapses because of a very rainy year (2018) and the local clay geology underlying several residences basically became very slippery and the entire slope slid off, taking the houses with it.
I also hope a structural engineer weighs in – there’s so many various things that go into designing a building for safety reasons!
Anonymous
As to your last comment, how would the infrastructure bill impact this? It’s a private building. They could have done an assessment at any time for repairs or upgrades. And the building passed all of its inspections.
Anon
+1 This has nothing to do with public infrastructure or the new bill.
Anon
If people are scared to go to S Fla hotels, that will s*ck for tourism. Ditto big buildings in the area. There is so much pork in this bill but this is real. Also, there is a bridge over the Mississippi closed right now for a giant structural crack and then there was the one in Minneapolis that collapsed over the Mississippi, so if people legit fear large hard structures killing them, that is a problem now vs the pork problems that are nice-to-haves.
Anon
Lol what ?! It South Florida tourism suffers (and I really doubt it will) that is not a federal government problem.
Anon
It is though — who do you think guarantees the mortgages on a lot of mortgages in that area that won’t be paid if that local economy suffers (or any big coastal city with large buildings built close to the water — Boston? NYC? DC? Baltimore? NOLA?). Sea rise / storms changing with global warming is a thing we will all have to deal with. Hopefully not with buildings falling on us. I suspect that this may be more of a thing (but hope this is an isolated incident for reasons that will quickly be found and can be looked for in other structures).
I heard that the sister building was evacuated and was relieved that people aren’t still inside it.
Anon
I’m sorry, but that is just a gigantic stretch to say that a potential but unlikely decline in tourism in South Florida due to a freak accident will become a federal problem because somebody might not be able to pay their mortgage. There are problems with way bigger impacts that Congress and the Executive branch don’t bother to deal with.
Anon
Had this collapse happened months ago, the bill could have addressed what could be a massive need to do structural assessments and remediations in large high-growth parts of the country. In my state, there are not many buildings near the water that are >3 stories, but one state over, high-rises are common on the same cr@ppy ground. Stuff washes away. We have severe storms. Salt water is no joke and insurance never seems to cover things. Deferred maintenance and surprise issues are common.
Anonymous
The building was in a landfill area; the global warming maps for San Francisco show what is fill.
Anon
A lot of The Netherlands is fill (and the original WTC site, I think ).
Anonymous
Gently, you are probably more likely to get hit by lightning than killed in a collapsed building in south Florida. This is a tragedy and most likely a preventable one, but building collapses are very rare all over the US.
My husband is a structural engineer. He’s never expressed concern about entering a building. We live in an apartment building in NYC. My Dad is a civil engineer and I know he didn’t buy a house because of some cracks he noticed. But that was in Fort Worth, where they have clay soil and foundation issues are extremely common. I doubt he was concerned the building would actually fall down, rather that he would need to pay a lot of $$ to fix the foundation. (And I think they did eventually need to do some foundation work in the house they did buy).
Anon
+1 do you avoid Oklahoma City because you’re scared of being in a bombing? This is tragic but rare and not something to freak out about or avoid whole area.
Anon
OTOH, an actual bomb would explain why a building that that had stood for decades collapsed. I wouldn’t worry about other buildings and we generally don’t worry about bombs in my city (or like ever here, even though it has happened). But in my high-growth city, if there are issues with a construction crane falling (happens from time to time), I think that people go look at other cranes to make sure that there are no issues and people give them a side-eye once something happens. Construction trench collapses are much more common (IMO) and are frequently lethal but no one but the workers seem to know about them much less fear them (the trench collapses on the poor worker and not on pedestrians walking by them or cars driving past).
I wouldn’t want to be in that other building and whoever went around to get people out were extremely brave people.
anon
Was coming here to second this, but also to say that if there was a “quick way to see if a building was going to collapse imminently” this wouldn’t have happened. I know buildings rarely collapse in the states, and I think you just have to keep this in mind. It’s a freak accident, not an epidemic of building collapses. Stuff happens.
Anon
Chiming in to agree — I am usually not a news-watcher (NPR listener in the car) and when I got home yesterday I watched hours of this in slack-jawed horror. The video of the middle collapse followed by the other section collapsing while the other part just says put is just terrifying, especially to the people who had this happen in their sleep.
Anon
I think that these pants are for someone with a much higher rise. They are sort of an office-look rendering of MC Hammer pants.
Anon
I have had the drop cr*tch effect to where I can get chub rub from wearing pants b/c the fabric isn’t where it should be. Pants now are either giving wedgies or sag.
Shelle
I want to buy new jeans but Gap petites have been low / out of stock for months. I’m devoted to this brand and am willing to wait, just curious if anyone else is experiencing this in your brand or size. Is this a covid-related production issue?
Anon
Have you checked ON/BR for anything similar? I do that sometimes as the items are often similar or similar-ish.
Shelle
Thanks for the suggestion! It looks like they have a similar issue but not as bad. Overall there seems to be a lot of skinny jean stock as if they didn’t stock enough straight leg styles to meet shifting demand. Who knows!
Anon
For what it’s worth, I like my Old Navy jeans at least as much as my Gap jeans and they come in a lot more petite styles. Old Navy is always cheaper in price but not always in actual construction than Gap or Banana Republic- I’ve actually had more things from Gap or Banana Republic fall apart or get holes in them after wearing them just a few times than the stuff I get from Old Navy, though that that’s partially because I buy more delicate items from those stores. My Old Navy jeans and leggings seem to hold up really well and they always have lots of petites, which is more than I can say more most stores these days.
PolyD
I have jeans from Gap Factory and BR Factory that I think are decent quality. Actually found some mid-rise ones at BR Factory earlier this year that I like very much.
Shelle
Somehow I forgot about Gap Factory thank you!
Shelle
Thanks for the info! I’ve bought their tops and dresses but never ventured into their jeans. I’ll definitely order a few pairs to try.
Anon
I just want to file my complaint about petite items always been out of stock, and that has been a more severe problem since the pandemic. I don’t feel seen or heard.
I, too, like Gap petite jeans…but they haven’t been what they used to be…esp w/the curvy fits. Still, I think they have the best fabric. Sometimes, I find something at Old Navy that is good…but you have to search around. I haven’t had luck at BR or BR Factory of late (again, not what they used to be), but that’s just me. My feeling is that Gap Factory may stretch out like BR Factory, but I have never tried.
Shelle
Solidarity!
Allie
Have you looked on poshmark, threadup or ebay for your preferred items? You might even find new with tags.
Shelle
Thanks for the suggestion :) Will look there
week off
I have a full week off work next week. It’s likely my last week before I give notice to go take a job where, unlike now, I’ll need to work hard and will be in the office at least some days. I won’t have time between the jobs.
What would you do with a week off to make yourself refreshed and ready to go and start working hard? I haven’t been working hard at all lately and have had tons of free time, but I feel burnt out/unmotivated/disengaged due to the crappiness of current job. I don’t want to have trouble focusing on work instead of refreshing the internet like a zombie as I do now…I need a fresh start.
No Face
I would focus on true self-care. Sleep 8-10 hours a night. Drink plenty of water. Yummy healthy meals. Meet with friends and/or family you haven’t seen. Spend time in nature. Exercise. Combine these things as necessary.
Congrats on the new job!
Anonymous
Maybe even stock the freezer with some of those yummy healthy meals or spend some time researching fast healthy meals that you can make after you start the new job. If you don’t already have grocery delivery or other services to save you time, look at setting those up. I also second the wardrobe refresh below.
Anon
+1 sleep is so important. I find if I don’t need to set an alarm for a morning meeting, I naturally sleep around 9 hours. 8 hours is an average, not necessarily the ideal for everyone.
Anon
Seconding this question. I’m taking next week off and spending it at a house in the country with some friends, and when I return to work I’m going to need to be focused. I am currently so burned out I can barely look at a screen.
Anon
Beach vacation! I went to an all-inclusive in Cancun for a week after leaving a really toxic job and it was the most restorative thing ever. I didn’t leave the resort all week except for an excursion to swim with whale sharks.
anon
I recommend a wardrobe refresh. Go through your closet. Get rid of anything you don’t like or won’t wear. Dry clean items that might need it. Take care of any tailoring or repairs you’ve put off. Identify gaps in your wardrobe and shop for just those items. Make your closet a place you’re happy to look through in the mornings. Oh, and make sure you have good, comfortable, supportive undergarments. (Who can work hard in uncomfortable underwear?)
NYNY
Agree on this. I’m going into the office a few days a week now, and still struggling with the whole getting dressed and out the door routine. It used to be second nature, but a year away from it made me lose my skills. I’m going to spend some time this weekend going through my closet to assemble outfits, cull anything I’ve stopped wearing, and figuring out what new pieces I need. Other things to prepare for in-person work: review & refresh what’s in your work bag, take shoes that need some love to the cobbler, plan some lunches if you’ll be bringing lunch to the office.
TheElms
I’ve only been in a few times and oh my goodness is it impossible to get out the door! Definitely need to do the closet declutter because I’d only been back in the office a few months after maternity leave before things shut down and was still nursing / pumping during that time. I basically have no idea what fits now. Nor do I seem to have any recollection of what outfits I used to make.
Anonymous
I say this every time one of these posts comes up, but definitely go do something active and engaging. It will be so much more refreshing than catching up on chores or Netflix. Think a mountain bike ride that takes all day, a whitewater rafting tour, a day of scuba diving, a visit to a museum, or anything that’s a little bit special, a little or a lot active, and fully engaging (no screentime). Nothing makes me feel still burnt out like not doing anything with a week off.
Anon
Spend time with your friends! That always refreshes me.
Anon
I did this recently and my advice is to actually schedule the things you want to do most. Even if its just going for a walk, going out for coffee. Think about your ideal day off, and plan it. Otherwise its very easy to get stuck on the couch watching Netflix all day (for me, at least)
Anonymous
+1. Planning is key. Spending a week off puttering because you didn’t plan is the actual worst. Do your chores some other time – get out of the house and DO SOMETHING!
Betsy
Get outside, without your phone. Give your brain some time to disconnect from screens. Give your body some time to be active outdoors and burn through some of that stress you are carrying.
Panda Bear
For project managers, what software or methods do you like? The online options are overwhelming, but I feel ready to move beyond my old standby of putting everything into a google sheet.
Anon
We use Liquid Planner and it is excellent, though a resource hog and time-consuming to set up.
Velma
I transitioned my higher ed comm team to Asana in Sept. 2019, and it saved us during WFH. You can try it free to start, but you will probably want to upgrade to one of the pro levels if you like it.
Trello is another good option.
Anon
+1 also in higher ed, we use Asana.
Anonymous
My team hates Asana even more than it hates MS Project.
Anonymous
Project is the worst of the worst and if you disagree you are wrong. :)
Vicky Austin
Oh man, what are the cons of Asana?? I really like it but I’d be interested to hear what your experience is.
pugsnbourbon
I’ve started using Clickup to manage my own tasks/projects. It’s really customizable.
Anonymous
I can’t say enough great things about Smarsheet. Works for our light users as well as heavy users–can set up to automatically email reminders to folks, can automatically adjust dates with formulas if, say, everything needs to move back three business days. Lots of great pre-built templates, too, that are easy to modify. So if you have a complex project, you don’t feel like you’re starting from scratch.
Anon
Which do you think is easier to learn–crochet or embroidery? I want to pick up a new craft/hobby, but can’t decide what to try first!
Anon
I’ve done embroidery for years and find it super easy and relaxing. I found crochet much more challenging to learn if you don’t have a person who knows what they are doing to troubleshoot.
Anon
What sort of projects do you want to do? Crochet gives you versatility, in that you can make flat things, garments or structural objects. Embroidery has the potential for more subtlety, but the project would have to be attached or otherwise incorporated into the garment or object. Both can be really excellent creative outlets.
Anon
Look at hardanger embroidery. It is graphic (not NSFW but graphic as in geometric / on a grid). It is easier IMO than counted cross-stitch and needlepoint is OMG $$$ (and I am still finishing my school crest from decades ago).
I think that crochet can be easy if you make rectangles (scarves / blankets) but picking up and putting down a complex project is frustrating / a big time s*ck to figure out where you left off. I like things to be autopilot to be relaxing and knowing where I am in a project that I maybe work on for 15 minutes a day makes it so easy to keep it going vs it gets dusty and left to its own devices.
FWIW, by limiting my knitting to rectangles (baby blankets), it has become so relaxing that 15 minutes of it and I am sleeping. So consider that a feature or a bug, your pick. But complex things in leisure projects are not where I am in life right now.
nuqotw
Not OP but so pretty!
Anonymous
I think embroidery is more satisfying and rewarding but if you haven’t heard of it look up English paper piecing!
Anon
I find embroidery really hard, cross stitching is much easier because there’s a grid to follow.
Anon
There is so much counting! And then you have something when you’re done that still need someone (usually not me) to make it into something. It’s OK, but I hate not being done when I’m done, if that makes sense.
nuqotw
If you know how to knit, crochet is almost certainly easier. Otherwise, it’s hard to say. It really depends on the end product you want/the setting you’re going to do it. I like knitting and crochet because I can do it while watching TV. Embroidery requires a patience I fundamentally lack and crocheting a basket out of Lopi or the like is very satisfying to me.
Whatever you pick, YouTube is your friend here, IMHO. I think it’s much easier to learn something like this watching someone rather than reading a book.
Anon
Hmm I think crocheting is more useful (how many embroidered things do you really need?) and since neither is actually difficult, I’d go with the more useful one.
I do all the needle crafts and I’d say home sewing and knitting are the most useful.
If you want a hobby that is going to take a lot of time and give you beautiful heirloom type keepsakes, needlepoint some throw pillow covers. Needlepoint isn’t hard either.
Anon
Yep. Totally useful heirloom right there :-)
That said, I have made many items – bedspreads, blankets, sweaters, dishcloths, hats, scarves, etc that see regular use.
Anon
Oh geez… formatting fail. I was referring to the bright red crocheted lobster that’s currently in residence on my desk.
Anon
Hahaha an heirloom is in the eyes of the beholder!
Anonymous
Embroidery, if you go for cross-stitch. I’d give guerilla or subversive cross stitch a go, get a fun kit of something you’d chuckle over.
I have had lessons in both sewing, embroidery, crochet and knitting throughout my life and and good or excellent at the other things, but still cannot crochet at all.
Anon
Should I keep trying another law firm? I seem to be quite bad at office politics and also had a particular string of bad luck. At my first biglaw firm, a family member suddenly became sick and moved in with me. After this family member died, I had to switch firm since I took some time to care for this family member and that affected my reputation. At my second biglaw firm, I struggled as a lateral and finding a mentor before the Xth came when that firm typically pushed out a lot of mid-levels. At my third firm, I arrived having found out that a few associates had just left due to working with certain partners, and again found myself staffed on matters with partners with the worst reputation. At this point, I’m a bit traumatized from this whole experience. What am I doing wrong? Is it because I’m in litigation? I’m also a first gen WOC. I’m confident I will be able to find another law firm job, but I’m not confident that I will be able to last at a firm for long. I’ve stayed about 2-3 years at each of my firm jobs. Another WOC advised me that because it’s harder to find mentors, it’s more important to have grit and keep trying. But on the other hand, if I’ve already tried this 3 times, and it’s not working, maybe it’s a sign that law firms are not a good path for me?
Anonymous
Was the third firm also big law? Maybe it’s biglaw that isn’t the right fit for you?
My Dad was a large law firm lawyer and I had the benefit of knowing even before going to law school that it was not a life I wanted. I’ve worked in a state govt legal dept since I graduated and really like it. We have a litigation section as well so it’s not like litigation would prevent you from moving to govt. It’s not amazing money but there is a pension and it’s ‘enough’.
I’d look outside biglaw for your next move.
Anon
Do you know what struck me as missing while reading this post? What YOU want to do. Do you want to be in a firm? Do you like the work? Or are you knocking on the firm door because that’s what you’ve been told to do? The post kind of reads like life is happening TO you. You’re in charge of your own life and can make your own way.
anon
+1 to this! Before you decide what to do, figure out what YOU want and then figure out how to get it.
Anon
It sounds like you’re moving around an awful lot. In my experience that makes it really hard to build up a solid reputation to allow you ride out dips in performance, and it also makes it hard to develop mentoring relationships. It’s often helpful to be aware of why a firm are recruiting laterals – is it because a practice group is growing and thriving, or because the partners are so awful no associate wants to stick around.
When you say you’re not good at office politics what does that mean? I do think the ability to build a solid network (internally and with clients) is really important to progressing. Have you considered career coaching?
Anon
“It’s often helpful to be aware of why a firm are recruiting laterals – is it because a practice group is growing and thriving, or because the partners are so awful no associate wants to stick around.”
This is so true. At this point, when a job opens up, my first question is WHY it is open.
Cat
Agree 1000%
AFT
and true outside of law firms! I just interviewed at a co that had recently lost their first [specialty] lawyer after less than a year… potentially coincidental, but hard not to wonder if they left because the business didn’t value the specialty or there was so much work to do in that area.
Anon For This
Agree with this 1000%. I’ve looked into the NYC biglaw lateral market for litigators a few times over the years, and generally found that litigation lateral market is really small, there just aren’t a lot of openings or firms that ever really need litigation laterals. There’s a small number of firms that are conspicuous because they often have lateral litigation openings, but it’s because the partners are awful, the practice is poorly run, or the work available in the group is awful.
Anon
Other than the $, is there a reason to consider another firm? Also, is anyone pushing you to leave or you’re just noticing signs? Working for jerks can be awful, but can also give you a set of good work that no one else is fighting to get, so you may just be able to work there until you figure out the rest. IDK what is going on now, but I’d not jump now if you’re not being pushed. We have people out the door all the time and it doesn’t always mean anything — and the work can be awful even if you work for a “good” partner or for a “good” client.
IMO if you have been around enough to be competent and have skills, govt service may be something to look at as they don’t like complete newbies but people who can hit the ground running. And tenure tends to be high, so even though personalities can always be tricky people generally make it work.
No Face
If you’ve never had a good experience at a firm and you’ve worked at 3 of them, you have my permission to work at a different work place! There’s no rule that says you have to work at a law firm.
I prefer law firm life, but I think most emotionally healthy people would hate working at a law firm.
No Face
BTW, I have several friends who left firm life to clerk for judges and they LOVE IT. Intellectually stimulating, mostly good work life balance. Really only one boss you have to keep happy instead of a bunch of partners who sometimes hate each other.
There are many judges who prefer clerks with experience practicing law, and the hiring is less about prestige credentials than the judges who hire straight out of law school.
Anon
Yes — that would be my dream semi-retirement job, but probably never going to happen. What I wouldn’t give for those federal holidays and vacations.
You might also look into being a state magistrate or hearing officer, which often go to lawyers but you don’t have to run for election like judges do (in my state, it varies).
Anon
LOL, it’s not “semi-retirement.” Most jobs are less stressful and lower paying than Big Law, it doesn’t mean they aren’t real, full-time jobs.
Anon
I know a lot of judges who have 5 employees and often have some .5 FTE employees (secretaries or perma law clerks). My judge had 2 recent grad clerks (one alternating 2-year terms), 1 .5 FTE career clerk who had clerked for him before and then “retired” from firm life when she had kids and went to work PT for him and helped train the newbies, 1 FTE secretary and one .5 FTE secretary.
anon
Right. LOL. My federal judge maintained 8 am – 7 pm hours and his reputation for being a demanding hard @ss on his clerks and litigants was well known. Legal research, writing, and analysis for 10+ hours a day, every day is HARD. Especially up to his standards. The big law environment is far worse in many ways, but the actual day to day work is not. Attending site visits and sitting in depositions of your co-defendants, drafting interrogatory responses… all of this is cake compared to clerking.
No Face
Why wouldn’t clerking happen? I have friends who went to normal, local law schools, worked at firms of varying sizes, then clerked for federal or state judges. It is a very viable career path. They are all full time though – not semi-retired.
Anon
I don’t know how you get good reads on when jobs like this open up. Would this be on USAjobs or more via word of mouth?
Senior Attorney
I was a career clerk (we were called “judicial attorneys”) for a state Court of Appeal judge for a while and it was a fabulous job. Interesting work, regular hours, decent pay and great benefits, and I loved my judge. The downside was it was quite solitary but these days what job isn’t?
Anonymous
My state district and appellate courts have what are called “staff attorneys” that are basically career clerks. We also have law clerks that are hired right out of law school and are the typical, top of the class, law review credentialed people. But the career clerks have a much broader range of experience.
Anonymous
I went to my 20th law school reunion, and was the only person from my small section who had stayed at a largish firm for their entire career. Don’t punish yourself by staying if it isn’t a good fit.
anonymous
There are lots of firms out there other than big law firms that allow you to care for sick/dying family, mentor good associates, and don’t abuse associates. You don’t need anyone’s permission to seek work outside of a firm, but you don’t need to rule out all firms all together if you really want to be in private practice. There are lots and lots of small and midsized law firms that treat people humanely. Many of those firms were started by ex-big or biggish midlaw partners who wanted a better work environment.
Anon For This
Three firms times two-three years at each means you’ve been working in law firms for well over six years by now, right? It’s a pretty long time to have stuck it out in biglaw, assuming your third firm is a biglaw firm or similar. That’s also more than enough time to know if law firms are a good fit, and it sounds like they might not be. I’m a WOC litigator and first-generation lawyer, child of immigrants, etc. etc. who is also a sixth-year associate (started in NYC biglaw, clerked, and now at a NYC boutique that hires former biglaw associates and is usually less busy than biglaw but not always).
Between my close law school friends (also WOC litigators at biglaw firms in major markets) and I, you’re probably not doing anything wrong, in our experience, law firms are just like this. None of my close friends in biglaw or I really see a viable path to staying in law firms long term and most have started actively applying to other types of jobs. ( Exit options outside of biglaw and other law firms seem to take a long time to get, so we haven’t been able to find government or in-house jobs yet.)
In my experience with the NYC biglaw and similar law firm lateral market, lateralling is just always tough. It’d be hard for anyone to really get integrated at the new firm after coming in as a lateral with no relationships with other attorneys at the firm. Don’t think any of my close friends who’ve spent the entire six years of their careers so far at their first biglaw firm and who are reasonably happy at their first biglaw firms would even really say they’ve managed to find very good, close mentors of the type that can be a serious help to either in-house exit options or to being promoted to partner… I think it’s just the nature of the job, there’s a lot of luck involved to whether you end up being able to stay in a firm long-term and potentially make partner.
Anon For This
(Same anon again.) I don’t think small boutique firms like where I am now are a perfect choice for everyone, but if you do enjoy some aspects of firm practice, smaller firms might be an option. I joined a small firm with partners who chose to leave larger firms because they wanted a different type of work culture and practice, and I’ve enjoyed it so much more than my first biglaw firm. There are downsides to it: (1) generally less, sometimes a lot less, total compensation (unless you’re at one of those super-elite litigation boutiques that markets itself as having above-market comp; I don’t usually mind this but the one year I billed 2200 it sucked to not be compensated for it like my biglaw friends); (2) depending on the firm and how they run things, there may be less of a path to promotion than in biglaw (there’s no path to promotion at all at my current firm); (3) no brand name recognition when I apply to other jobs outside of my current firm’s home city (my firm is particularly small and under the radar, so other NYC litigators in different niche practices might not even have heard of it); (4) smaller firm may mean fewer resources that could make some parts of your practice less efficient (the lack of an in-house IT person or IT team creates some… silly challenges at times); and (5) each firm has its own quirks so there may be other unique issues at each firm (mine, for instance, is not really equipped to give associates experience standing up in court, unfortunately). But depending on your interests and needs, it could be a good option for you.
anon for this
Wholeheartedly co-sign this about boutiques (all of it, including the downsides). I left a biglaw environment for a smaller firm after about 6 years, and it’s been a lot better for me, even with the downsides noted above (which are similar at my firm).
anon
+2, I’m also at a litigation boutique now, very similar to Anon For this’s post (although my hours are nothing near biglaw hours, probably about 1500 a year – if they were more, I’d leave). I agree with many of her points. One of the big things I didn’t anticipate is the lack of brand name recognition. It’s not an issue for now, but it may be at some point in the future.
Anon
Thank you. Do you think biglaw in smaller cities like Seattle or Houston might be better than major cities? Part of the reason why I decided to be in the major liberal cities is because I thought there would be less implicit bias. But I’m not so sure about that anymore. If implicit bias is everywhere, and the work life balance is better in these other cities, then maybe it’s worth a try there?
Cat
Why do you want to keep trying Biglaw? Maybe an in house litigation-adjacent position would be a better fit. HR, compliance, and privacy are areas where a ton of ex-litigators end up.
I don’t think it’s materially better work life balance in those locations FWIW. My old firm’s Houston office had exactly the same billable expectations as the NY office…
anon
What is it about biglaw that is appealing to you? What’s your long term goal? This is pretty critical to understand before we can give you good advice.
Anon
It should be a smaller city that you have some connection to and hopefully can waive into the bar there if in another city. If not, you will be really isolated there when the 4th firm doesn’t work out.
If I were you, I’d network and go to as many lunches as you can just to work on what you want and what is out there locally, If you want to move, maybe take some networking trips. You should invest a lot of time kicking the tires before you do anything.
Anon4This
Can I just say that this is a story that I have heard some variation of from nearly every midlaw/biglaw associate I know who is not a white person, preferably male and a good golfer, from an upper class background with “connections”? (Connections can be real or perceived—perceived and played up seems more common than actual connections, IME.)
I’m sorry I don’t have any answers or real advice. This remains a huge problem in the law and I hope you find a spot that values you, whether at a law firm or elsewhere!
Anonymous
I helped a friend navigate my employers challenging application process. This resulted an offer which they turned down. It didn’t reflect upon me in any way professionally because I didn’t reccomended this person, so this is an entirely personal issue not professional. My friend wants to apply again and I just….don’t want to help? I have a strong hunch my time will be wasted again. Is there a polite way to tell my friend, no I won’t be helping again this time?
Anon
“I think from last time you’ll be able to handle this on your own and it will be to your credit that you can say this if your application moves forward.”
Anon
“Gosh, George, I’m really busy with XYZ right now. After navigating it last time, I’m sure you’ve gotten the hang of it!”
Anon
“Hey Bob, what happened last time? You turned down Last Job, why do you want to apply again?”
OP
FWIW I know what happened last time, my friend’s partner vetoed the move, and the same thing will happen again this time.
Anon
Then I’d just have that heart to heart and tell your friend if he does the same thing again, the bridge will be burned. I’m a big believer in the school of helping people with jobs and dodging the issue or fake helping isn’t good karma for you. I’d consider talking it out.
Anon
I dunno – I would not go down this road again. OP should tell him that she spent a lot of time and energy helping him the last time, and he turned down the offer. She doesn’t have endless amounts of energy and time for fruitless efforts, so he’s on his own this time
Anon
You’re basically agreeing with who you replied to.
Cornellian
This is a question that has bothered me for years. All of my sunscreen says I need to reapply every 60-90 minutes. If I’m hiking or on the beach I’m reapplying every thirty.
But what about in an everyday basis? I know I need to reapply to get UV and blue light protection but smearing six layers on over the course of a workday seems disgusting. Removing previous layers seems like a good way to upset my skin, negate any makeup I applied and spend half the day in the bathroom. What do real people actually do?
FWIW I am quite fair and live in Texas.
Anon
Are you spending significant time outside? I reapply if I’ll be walking outside for lunch, but if I’m just going to be sitting inside all day I don’t reapply. I’m very fair also.
pugsnbourbon
+1. I reapply to my arms before I get in the car to drive home. I hadn’t been doing that but noticed I had a lot more freckles on my left arm than my right!
At the beach I reapply around once an hour if I’m dipping in and out of the water.
Anonymous
Hat and linen wrap/cardigan instead of sunscreen for lunch outside.
Anon
If you work inside I wouldn’t reapply that often. It is tricky though – I’ve bought tons of SPF products for my mom (who is fair and has had multiple skin cancers) and she likes a powder with SPF in it that she can apply over makeup if she needs it. There are a few brands and I forget them all, but I think one is Peter Thomas Roth.
anon
I just … don’t follow the rules for every day because they aren’t practical. I put on a layer of sunscreen under my makeup in the morning. That has to be good enough. If I’m really worried about sun exposure in my daily activities, I’ll put on a loose-fitting hat. Now, if I’m actually in a situation where I’m in the sun for extended periods of time (at the lake, or during other outdoor activities), I’m probably not wearing makeup and therefore I reapply every hour or so.
Anonymous
I like a sunscreen powder for my face; I have also tried sunscreen makeup setting sprays but don’t like the uneven deposit. I do reapply cream on my hands.
Anonymous
M-F I apply AM and midday. (Weekends are similair but depend on activity). Part of my weekday routine is ritual refreshment for my dry Denver skin, and part due to sitting in a sunny home office and worrying about the bad rays aging my face/neck/ décolleté! (I reapply again if I go out in the evening). I use unscented body oil as my first cleanse at night, prior to washing my face. (Sharing as this as been very helpful for my sunscreen slathered skin!)
Anon
Super fair, I don’t wear sunscreen unless I’m going to the beach or outside all day, and then I take additional steps to prevent burning (hats, shade, etc.) There’s a lot out there that challenges the conventional wisdom on it
https://www.outsideonline.com/2380751/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science
Anon
Same. I also have super sensitive skin and am allergic to a lot of sunscreen products so I never got into a habit of wearing it daily. I don’t use any products or makeup w/ SPF and only apply sunscreen if I’m going hiking, to the beach, on a boat, something where I’ll be outside more than an hour.
Anony
+1 My skin hates sunscreen/ingredients in sunscreen.
anon
I’m also in Texas. How do you avoid sweating it all off within 10 min of being outside or immediately after you reapply?
Cornellian
I find mineral better for that. I like zinc screen from supergoop or blue lizard for my kid (I use it too, but it takes more time to work in and not look like a ghost)
Anon
I apply to my face once in the morning, then protect with clothing barriers during the day. I keep a giant sun hat in my car for lunch walks, and always have long sleeves and driving gloves for my commute (2 hours a day, so exposure adds up). I do not reapply unless I’m actively in the sun, like at the beach or pool.
Anon
Do you think your hands look noticeably younger than those that don’t wear the gloves? I look young but my hands do not. I do not wear regular sunscreen but could start wearing it on the back of my hands.
AZCPA
I just started applying sunscreen daily to my hands, after realizing my daily walk (in large sun hat and SPF long sleeves) was causing my hands to be noticeably tan. For intentional outside time I’m using a physical SPF blockers, and also bought hand lotion with SPF 30 for the rest of the time.
Anon
The skin is smooth, but I have naturally bony hands with prominent veins. I’d say they’re in better shape than if I didn’t cover them, but the overall effect is older than if I had nicer hands in general.
if you have a long commute, it’s definitely worth it to apply to the backs of your hands about 20-30 minutes before leaving. Keep a tube in your desk drawer and set an Outlook alarm.
Anon
I am a sunscreen fanatic and I tend to only apply if I’ve spent 2 hours outside. That is rare for me. On a typical day where my only exposure is through windows I don’t usually reapply. If I am outside a bunch I add other types of protection- a UPF50 sunhat and giant sunglasses, for example.
Anon
I tend to only *RE-APPLY. I apply spf in the morning daily regardless of my plans.
Anon
+1 I consider myself a sunscreen fanatic but both my derm and the bottle say you only need to reapply every 2 hours if you’re outside. I don’t reapply when I’m sitting indoors all day and I only reapply before driving home if it’s a high UV index day (usually a sunny day in April-Sept qualifies). My car is tinted, which I know is not perfect but it cuts down on the UV exposure a lot.
Anon
Here are some options for those who wear makeup: https://twitter.com/LaBeautyologist/status/1388892298637832193?s=20
Anonymous
I only reapply during the workday if I am going outside at lunch. On my face, I use a spray that goes over makeup–Supergoop and Coola make them.
anon
I don’t wear sunscreen on workdays. Human beings weren’t made to be shielded from the sun at all times. The 20 minutes or so of sun exposure I get on a normal workday gets me my vitamin D. I’m very fair
Cornellian
I think this is different depending on your climate. If you look at the occurrence of Vitamin D deficiencies (and related diseases) it’s WAY more common in the northern half of the country than the south. I also think “skin health/appearance” is an important consideration, especially on face and neck. I tend to not apply anything to my bare legs on a daily basis, which are way bigger swaths of skin.
Nonny
I didn’t apply to bare legs because I am only exposed to sun when walking to work. Got skin cancer on calf.
Cat
Every 30 when outside? My first layer of sunscreen has barely soaked in by 30 minutes, and if I put on more than two layers, it balls up on itself and turns my shoulders into the human equivalent of Dippin Dots.
For day to day I just rely on my base having SPF in it, and find it far easier to add a lightweight layer (beach coverup, light linen sweater, hat, etc) as needed.
Cornellian
I sometimes wonder if I should just be applying more… but it’s partially a habit because my preschooler is a verified sweat machine who sweats everything off remarkably quickly. so I just reapply to both at once.
Anon
To this poster from yesterday:
Hi pick one out for me! I’m a tall 18W and I look best in muted cool tones.
https://www.renttherunway.com/shop/designers/farm_rio/blue_banana_midi_dress (comes in XL; seems to be sold out in a lot of places)
This is available in custom sizing, so if you like it, I’d call and make sure the dimensions work (or they can make one that will, b/c they are a small business that can do this).
https://www.suesartor.com/products/paloma-shorty-blue-white?_pos=1&_sid=aee6c1e51&_ss=r
IMO it matters in sizing if you are more pear (looser skirts are our friend) or apple / busty (OMG every dimension matters much more). Good luck!
Anon
Thank you! Just saw this.
Anonymous
Talk to me about buying a house in an area that has significant earthquake risk (Seattle, if it matters). I know some of the things to avoid, like buying property on a backfilled, low-lying marina area, but is there a good website or maps that you all have found easy to use to estimate risk? For example, I really love older homes, but I know that they are more likely to collapse in an earthquake. If I’m going to be making a forever investment, I’d like to at least have a little bit of knowledge about what to look for and what to avoid. Obviously you can’t eliminate all risk, but you can eliminate some or make sure you are in an area that is not predicted to be the very worst off of all.
Anon
I own in San Francisco and my home is close to 100 years old. Old/new isn’t actually the issue – old homes can have their foundations reinforced. Look at what the home is built on (bedrock v soil v fill, but even then it’s not all the same. I’m in an old neighborhood with lots of surviving structures from big quakes and nothing happened in 89 of grave concern). At the end of the day you’re just taking a risk. In SF the land value is high, so worst case if the place falls down and I can’t rebuild, I’ll sell the land. In the meantime, bolt the foundation to the home, put in sheerwalling to reinforce soft stories (or do whatever is recommended in Seattle).
Anon
And PS, I’m not really aware of any major quakes in Seattle – I know y’all are on a fault line but I think your risk is a lot lower than say mine is in SF….
No Problem
LOL you’ve heard of the Cascadia subduction zone, right? The impact of “the big one” in SoCal is going to be a cakewalk compared to the impact of “the big one” in the PNW.
Anon
OMG, I didn’t mean to start the suffering olympics of earthquake country. My point was just that there’s a lot more risk involved in buying in an area where pretty often there’s a “big one.” However, on reflection, it’s actually probably easier to buy in SF with some comfort because you have more history to rely on to know how your neighborhood will react and homes are constructed with earthquakes in mind.
Curious
We’ll have one eventually. Our real estate agent pointed out that older homes in our area tend to be framed with old growth wood that has give to it, so they’ve survived a century of mild earthquakes. We still ended up buying newer construction because my husband wanted something that was built to modern code from the beginning.
Anonymous
Did you use any other resources to aid decision-making? Should I start with USGS maps or something?
Curious
No, we just pay for earthquake insurance and anchor things to the wall. It’s kind of the price of admission. We don’t live right on the water tho.
Former WA/CA resident
Um, the Nisqually quake in 2001 was a 6.8, and the Cascadia quake that is predicted for the region may be a 9.0. California isn’t the only seismically active place on the West Coast.
anon
I just bought a 100+ year old house in SF, on bedrock in a neighborhood that has fared well in earthquakes historically (but of course that’s no guarantee). Do you have earthquake insurance? I wasn’t planning on having it due to the cost (and the fact that the bank owns most of the house through the mortgage). I think the house does need some seismic upgrades though.
Anon
No, it’s cost prohibitive in my view. I’m spending the money instead on seismic upgrades to our place. I’ve been here a while so have a lot of equity in the home and lot such that I feel comfortable with the risk.
Anon
I own my home in Berkeley and I own most of it vs the bank, so I do have earthquake insurance. I’ve also done what I can to retrofit my 1909 house (that exists because of the 1906 SF earthquake). It is expensive to have eq insurance for sure, but my house is my most valuable asset and I could not afford to rebuild it from scratch.
Anon
The bank owns the house but you’d still have to pay your mortgage if your house was destroyed in the earthquake. The bank hasn’t assumed that risk from you.
Anon
I don’t have a mortgage
Anonymous
Old homes are not more susceptible to collapse. Old homes were built to much higher standards than modern ones, joists and other structural elements were thicker and made with old growth wood which is significantly stronger and more resilient than modern quick-growth SPF lumber, brick homes were often 3 layers of structural brick instead of a modern single layer brick facade.
Senior Attorney
+1 If your old house has been bolted to the foundation you should be fine. I wouldn’t, however, even consider an unreinforced masonry home (which I don’t even think is a thing here in So Cal, YMV in Seattle).
I’m in So Cal and we have an older (70 years) wood frame house, single story, bolted to the foundation, we buy the (very expensive) earthquake insurance, and feel like that’s the best we can do. Fun fact: Some of the largest earthquakes in So Cal have been on fault lines that were unknown until said largest earthquakes occurred.
Anonymous
Do you have any suggested resources to learn more about that?
Anonymous
I would recommend attending events hosted by your local preservation society because that will give you local information
steel or wood on a fault only
Structural brick in an earthquake zone… is not a thing that you want.
anon
The city of Seattle has landslide risk maps. You will definitely want to look at those – there have been multiple fatal landslides in western Washington over the last few decades.
Anon
Also, if the Cascadia Subduction Zone goes, it’s gonna be the wave not the quake that you need to worry about. High ground is your friend.
anonshmanon
USGS has maps both for landslide risk and tsunami risk – check them out.
Anonymous
+1 look at landslide ArcGIS maps and avoid places on a steep slope with running stream below it. Moving water will eventually undermine that slope. Buy a wood frame house instead of brick, and get earthquake insurance. I live in Portland and was quoted $500 annually which is doable for me.
Anonymous
Thanks everyone, some great ideas here! I will definitely check out tsunami maps as well (and the bonus of living on a hill is that you can get good views – another thing I want in real estate).
Coach Laura
One main fault runs through Bremerton, Bainbridge Island, South Seattle, West Seattle, Mercer Island and eastward. Pretty much anyone between 520/UW to South Seattle is in the zone. I think the worse risk is Cascadia, which won’t spare anyone.
I formerly worked in downtown Seattle in a high rise and did survival training sponsored by my Big Bank. The Seattle firefighters and survival experts told us to prepare to spend 72 hours there after “the big one” as the broken glass would be 2-3 feet high on the streets. I now work at home but used to worry about getting home after the earthquake on foot without being able to cross the lake on a bridge. I had my own survival stash of food and sturdy shoes and emergency blankets. But at some point I stopped worrying and just accepted the risk. https://www.king5.com/article/news/local/disaster/why-you-need-to-be-prepared-these-are-the-3-big-earthquake-threats/281-457421137
Coach Laura
Google earthquake fault lines in Seattle.
One main fault runs through Bremerton, Bainbridge Island, South Seattle, West Seattle, Mercer Island and eastward. Pretty much anyone between 520/UW to South Seattle is in the zone. I think the worse risk is Cascadia, which won’t spare anyone.
I formerly worked in downtown Seattle in a high rise and did survival training sponsored by my Big Bank. The Seattle firefighters and survival experts told us to prepare to spend 72 hours there after “the big one” as the broken glass would be 2-3 feet high on the streets. I now work at home but used to worry about getting home after the earthquake on foot without being able to cross the lake on a bridge. I had my own survival stash of food and sturdy shoes and emergency blankets. But at some point I stopped worrying and just accepted the risk.
Horse Crazy
People who live in wooded areas, what do you use on your pets for flea prevention? I put topical Cheristin on my two cats, and while it works pretty well, I hate putting all of those chemicals on them all the time – it can’t be great for their health, and it smells so bad. Does anyone know of a more natural way to prevent fleas that isn’t ad chemical-y as cheristin, Advantage, or Frontline? I know there are also pills – are those effective? Thanks in advance to my fellow cat ladies!
Anon
Bravecto (for a dog but I’m sure there is a similar thing for cats).
Elle
+1 for bravecto
Anonymous
+2. My dog spends her whole day outside and I have found a tick on her exactly once.
Bette
I don’t have a cat, but my dog reacted very poorly to topical flea/tick treatments–after we applied, he would spend a whole day sleeping and seeming otherwise out of sorts. We switched to chewable treatments, and these seem much gentler on his constitution. Obviously dogs aren’t cats, but our experience has been so much better that I would encourage you to try oral treatments and see how it goes.
Anon
Simparica trip for my small pup – fleas, ticks & heartworm, all in one chew. The chemical/topical stuff made her fur greasy and she hated it.
Anon
My cat is indoors only so nothing. For my dogs, one gets the soresto collar because she has a negative reaction to the topical and the pill. My other dog gets the pill.
Anon
I don’t live in the woods but I use Bravecto for my three cats, recommended by my vet. It seems to work and I’ve noticed no adverse effects from it
Sunshine71
Check into more natural remedies if you’re interested, like diatomaceous earth, vinegar, essential oils like eucalyptus, peppermint, etc. One of the best resources for this type of info for dogs is the Whole Dog Journal. I don’t have cats and some things that are safe for dogs aren’t safe for cats, but their articles might give you a place to start.
Anon
Highly, highly recommend – let’s stop ourselves before we wreck ourselves. And love a Solzhenitsyn reference. :)
https://mrwinstonmarshall.medium.com/why-im-leaving-mumford-sons-e6e731bbc255
Anonymous
George Orwell works here too: “The “final, most essential command” of any coercive movement is, as George Orwell once put it, “to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears.””
I have found that many members of the progressive left don’t want me to use my own intellect to examine an issue. I refuse to go along with it. Also, Andy Ngo doesn’t deserve to be beaten and nearly killed for being a journalist. If that view is wrong, I don’t want to be right.
Anonymous
Please. He’s not a journalist. He just uses that as an excuse to try and avoid responsibility for his actions. He’s such a special snowflake he can’t even own his own views.
Anonymous
Wait, I don’t understand your position. Are you arguing that it’s okay for Antifa to physically assault Ngo to the point of causing hospitalization and disability for not “owning his own views”(?) Are you saying it’s okay to hurt someone as long as they’re “not a journalist?” Help me understand.
Anonymous
Yeah, you obv don’t actually want to understand.
It’s clear AF that I said he’s not a journalist. I said zero things about attacks/injuries etc but thanks for playing.
I’d suggest you spend more time working on your reading comprehension but you are fooling no one with your faux confusion.
Anonymous
Or he could have just apologized for praising a book that all credible sources call deeply dishonest and full of lies. But nice Friday morning pot stirring.
Anon
+1. I’m so confused. Do people not know the full story here? This is not an example of far left ultra wokeness, and I say that as someone who considers myself pretty moderate and thinks the left often goes too far (e.g., the attempted canceling of Dr Seuss). Free speech means you don’t go to jail for your opinions, it doesn’t mean there aren’t consequences. The guy praised a Nazi. Sorry not sorry he lost his job.
MechanicalKeyboard
1. “The left” didn’t cancel Dr. Seuss. 2. Very few people have actually been “Cancelled” and most of them have been liberal, female, POC, or some combination.
Anon
Right that’s why I said “attempted” – I’m aware canceling doesn’t real stick to white men very well.
anon
But the left didn’t really even attempt to cancel Dr. Suess. His estate elected to stop publishing certain problematic books, which weren’t really selling anyways.
Anonymous
The Seuss thing was his own estate trying to self-manage–there literally was not even an attempt at cancelling. What you had was Fox “news” trying to make it sound like someone was attacking Dr. Seuss. Was not a thing.
Walnut
You must not run amongst left toddler parent circles. All Dr. Seuss books were canceled in my area both in homes and from the daycare bookshelves.
Anonymous
“All books” were removed from homes. Sure.
Let’s ignore the fact the whole thing was initiated by his estate then…
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/books/2021/mar/07/dr-seuss-books-product-recall-cancel-culture
anon
I wouldn’t take Walnut seriously, she’s a longtime anti-masker after all.
Anon
If forcing people to acknowledge perspectives outside their bubble is pot stirring, guess I’ll need some more wooden spoons. :)
Anon
Andy Ngo is affiliated with the Proud Boys, a white supremacist terrorist organization. He also straight up lies, manipulates video and presents it to unknowing people as the truth. I value opinions outside my bubble and certainly don’t think someone should be canceled for agreeing with a conservative point of view, but Andy Ngo is much more than just “conservative.” He’s one of the most dangerous people alive in the US today. Acting like Winston Marshall was canceled because he’s conservative is ridiculous pot-stirring.
anon
Is there more to this story? I’m not sure why posting that a book from any viewpoint is agreeing with everything a person endorses. Is there something inherently problematic about the book itself? Just agreeing with certain points in a book doesn’t equal a wholesale endorsement of the author.
Anonymous
Calling the author a ‘brave man’ and his book an ‘important book’ is a wholesome endorsement. It’s not like he said ‘ I disagree with Ngo’s ‘journalistic practices’ and a lot of his book but I think that he has a good point in xyz chapter’. There was no nuanced commentary on a book, there was a wholesale endorsement of the author and then he couldn’t handle the blowback so he took his toys and went home.
anon
Jeez – you read a lot into a tweet. He said he liked the book. Do you also say anyone who likes Harry Potter must be anti tr-ns? I’m still unclear about what is actually problematic about the book contents.
Anonymous
Anon at 12:46, a LOTTTTTT of people in my circles are doing exactly that. They’ve thrown out their copies of the books, but I can’t find anyone who can actually say (in their own words) why they’re offended.
Anonymous
Can you not read or do you just not read the articles you post?
Per the article above, in which Marshall himself quotes the entire tweet, the tweet literally called Ngo a ‘brave man’ and said it was an ‘important book’.
Anon
I can read. I’ve asked you three times to explain the issue with the book. Can you read?
Anonymous
Anon at 2:04, you’re fighting a losing battle. There’s an angry Anon on this whole thread who prefers ad hominem attacks to actual good-faith discussion. He or she does illustrate the overall point rather well, though.
Anonymous
I haven’t read the book and have zero thoughts on the book. Never said that I had.
You said “Just agreeing with certain points in a book doesn’t equal a wholesale endorsement of the author.”
I replied on that point, citing the article you provided at the beginning of this whole silly post, that Marshall had provided a wholesale endorsement. Marshall did not provide a nuanced critique of a book. He called someone a ‘brave man’ and said it was an ‘important book’. Sorry not sorry if facts are hard for you.
Apparently you can’t even read what you write.
anon
I’m not the OP but whatever. You are really reading a ton into a tweet. I don’t know what universe you live in but twitter is generally not a place for nuanced critiques. For a musician (good reminder here that this isn’t a literary critic we are talking about, it’s a musician posting about books he’s reading) to have this level of response to posting one quick tweet about a book he read is insane.
You are all over this thread insulting people without responding to any substance. You are doing exactly what the article is talking about. I hope you aren’t this way in real life because it’s people like you who make a lot of Americans hate the left and decry that both sides are just as bad so they may as well vote for trump again because they like paying lower capital gains and the left is hysterical
Anonymous
Okay. You’re not the OP. Sure, Jan. Believe that if it makes yourself better.
FWIW I’m not American and there are multiple anons commenting about how this whole post is BS.
Panda Bear
Interesting! Even though I see it every single day, part of me still cannot believe how *horrible* people are to each other online. It’s just so insane.
Anonymous
Such a powerful article and I whole heartedly agree with all of it. I am a crunchy granola hippy far more liberal than anyone I know in all regards, but the far left woke has lost their mind.
Anon
+1
anon
I follow this woman on instagram, Africa Brooke, whose work surrounds woke public shaming and internet mobs. One thing she posted that has stuck with me is “Do we actually want people to change for the better, or do we want to punish and shame them until they have no ounce of dignity or worthiness left? What will satisfy the mob?”
I’m a leftie and vote and speak that way, but mob mentality and complete destruction of anyone who steps even one foot out of line from the farthest left position is not the way. It’s just not. It’s completely devoid of humanity and compassion, and makes no room for forgiveness, reconciliation, learning, or growth.
Anon
+1
I’m not very classically religious, but I hate that there is no possibility of personal redemption in any of this.
Anonymous
That’s because the goal isnt progress it’s punishment.
Anon
If you look at Chrissy Tiegen right now, people are just fleeing her in droves. If she is a horrid person, is the goal what in the Amish community is shunning? Because the goal of shunning isn’t that the person is an outcast, it is that the person rejoins the community and changes their problematic ways.
The Bible story of the Prodigal Son always bothered me (I am cast in the role of the other sons, constantly, in my family). But it’s not wrong. It’s just hard to hear.
Anonymous
Absolutely. I just listened to Bari Weiss’s podcast on how Majdi Wadi, a Palestinian-American business owner in the Twin Cities, was treated after people uncovered long-deleted offensive tweets his daughter had posted as a teenager. She had since changed her ways, apologized profusely, etc., but none of it mattered – the entire family and everyone connected to them had to pay the price. The sheer lack of proportionality, the unforgivability, the collective shaming and punishment – it was all INSANE to listen to. Over 60 people lost their jobs as a result of the boycott of the business and it’s not ending anytime soon.
kt
Did you also read about the treatment that local Twin Citians have long endured at Holy Land?
https://sahanjournal.com/news/as-holy-land-grocery-attempts-to-mend-relationship-with-community-former-employees-speak-out/
It’s always more complicated than fits in a podcast.
anon
+1 to this. I also follow evolvedteacher who generally has amazing content but she recently had a great post about how calling someone in rather than calling someone out that I thought was really interesting.
Anon
This.
Anonymous
Just because someone’s grandma survived the Holocaust doesn’t mean they can’t be a right wing zealot like Marshall. He’s just mad because his actions have consequences. I can’t even with Marshall’s faux outrage that people would call him out for referring to Ngo as a ‘brave man’, yeah this seems super ‘brave’:
“One of the victims of the attack was knocked unconscious with a baton and suffered a broken vertebra—Ngo later posted a video of her being attacked and identified her online.[58] Portland Mercury quoted an undercover antifascist embedded in Patriot Prayer saying that Ngo had an “understanding” with the far-right group that the group “protects him and he protects them”.[25] Five members of Patriot Prayer, including the group’s leader Joey Gibson, were indicted for felony riot for their actions on May Day.[59]” – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Ngo
Anon
+1. Also no matter how much y’all want to get your knickers in a twist over it, cancel culture isn’t real. What you seem to disagree with is bad actions having consequences — hardly a new concept.
Anonymous
Hard disagree. I see “it’s not cancel culture, it’s consequence culture” all the time on Twitter and social media, but few seem willing to engage in real-life examples of people losing their livelihoods or having to go into hiding because of social media firestorms over offensive incidents. The Majdi Wadi case I mentioned above is just one example. Plus, the issue is less “this specific person was cancelled” and more “it’s bad when people start self-censoring for fear of online mobs.”
anon
+1
Anon
Or that guy who worked for Boeing who was basically forced out because he wrote an essay over thirty years ago when he was a military pilot advocating against women in combat, a position that was not particularly controversial at the time and that he had since reversed.
I am a firm believer in consequences but am uncomfortable with people losing their livelihoods over things they said or wrote when they were teenagers or decades ago. People and times change and evolve. Asking someone to explain something they said years ago is fair game. Refusing to accept them saying their thinking has evolved is not.
I did not know who Andy Ngo was until it came up on this site and have not read any of his books but we are not talking about Andy Ngo and the consequences he deserves for his words and actions. We are talking about the guy who read a book and tweeted two sentences about it – probably also without knowing who Ngo was other than the author of the book.
If I recommend Hillbilly Elegy that does not mean I am endorsing its author. It is because he was telling a specific story that says a lot about a specific group of people and their world view that I think a lot of people outside the South could benefit from reading. If I say I loved the movie Syriana, particularly the story of the kid who became a suicide bomber, it is not because I am endorsing the worldview of terrorists. But honestly I would hesitate to express either of those opinions any way but anonymously. And if I was public person I would let my publicist handle my social media for fear of saying the wrong thing.
Anon Anon
Bad actions have consequences. The problem is that the consequences have so far outstripped the action.
A musician tweeted that he thought a book he read was important and that the author was brave (presumably for what he said in the book). It is not clear that he had any idea what other things that author had done or said. It is not clear to me that there was anything objectionable about the book itself. Turns out the guy who wrote the book is objectively pretty awful. Musician apologizes but that is not enough and he is basically forced out of the job he loves as a result.
We are holding people to a standard of perfection that is simply not obtainable, particularly in an age of social media. And in the process losing both perspective and nuance – not to mention voters.
And yes – I am posting this anonymously because we have reached the point where I am legitimately afraid to post anything even remotely controversial on social media.
anon
+1 million to this, including your last paragraph
Anon
After having a baby and going through the hassle of the pandemic, I’ve become apple shaped and I have no idea how to dress myself. I’m tall with long, skinny limbs and I feel like clothing emphasizes my bigger middle and makes me look pregnant. Can anyone suggest what types of casual clothing I can wear to de-emphasize this? I have a family event to go to and I don’t feel like having people speculate.
I’m trying to find tops that are a-line but I keep ordering online and striking out – they look very different on me than on the model. Even bottoms are giving me trouble. I keep aiming for mid-rise but either the waist is way too small or the waist fits and the hip area is comically baggy.
Anonymous
I’m a fellow long limbed Apple. I am not a fan of empire waist at all. I find something like a cami or vest top which is fitted but not skin tight, with something over the top like a shirt works for me casually but smart. (Think jeans and a white shirt in summer, checked shirt in winter.) the top underneath and having a few buttons undone to give me a neck helps. Similarly a v neck tshirt and green shirt jacket. For dresses shirt dresses work great with a real belt over them. But basically I always feel a better shape with a third piece which is either a shirt style, denim jacket, blazer etc. Kimmo style jackets also work well for me for evenings with a black top underneath. I’m probably not very fashionable but some for classic.
Jeans are hard! What fits me best is Levi’s and thinks that don’t have stretch. I find the less stretchy jeans which fit me on the waist work better over my slimmer bottom half than stretchy ones, which is probably the opposite of what you’d expect.
Anon
I’m not tall but am a long limbed apple. Shift dresses, low rise jeans, shorts with a looser v neck t shirt or top.
Anon
I’m built the same. It’s rough. Solidarity.
Anonymous
Halter tops with drop waist with low-rise skinny jeans – your shoulders will be the visual focal point.
Lots of interest on neck and shoulders in your tops, show your clavicles and shoulders, and low rise pants will also move the eye to hips rather than waist. Or a flared skirt. You can also do a monochrome top and skirt (or dress) with a contrasting belt over – and an open blazer (with waist definition – and don’t worry about being able to button it) over. The contrasting belt gives a waist illusion.
If you can’t find a top you like with a drop waist, you could try a long t-shirt top, open, maybe scoop or wide neck. Run a seam by hand-sewing at one of the sides and make a ruche at one side – place the ruche at your hip, making the open neck and your hip the focal points.
Anon
Create all the long vertical lines you can. There’s a reason a long open cardigan or jacket over a flow tank and slim pants are a classic look for older women – we get more apple shaped as we age.
In search of comfy sandals that aren't flip flops
In my last 2 months of pregnancy with due date at end of August and my sneakers are starting to feel really tight and uncomfortable. I have been wearing flip flops, but going on walks with them isn’t great either. Any advise on footwear to get me through these last couple of months?
Thanks!
Panda Bear
I like sandals with a thick and supportive sole, plus enough straps to keep my whole foot in. My current favorites are from SAS. Birkenstock-ish styles work well for me too.
Anon
Birkenstocks or any hiking sandal. You could also buy up a size in your sneakers, it might be swelling and temporary but sometimes people’s feet permanently get bigger from being pregnant.
nuqotw
I might go ahead and buy a pair of sneakers a half size or a size up if that is feasible. I wish I’d done that when I was pregnant since it would have been more comfortable and it turned out that my post-pregnancy shoe size was permanently a half size or size up, depending on the style.
Anon
Birkenstock Arizona sandals! Also a big fan of Birkenstock Bostons.
Anon
Agree with the Birkenstock suggestions. I’d probably get the medium width rather than the narrow, make sure if you’re buying online they label which it is.
fallen
will be in NYC with my 3 year old this weekend. any favorite things to do in NYC with a 3 year old?
NYCer
– Central Park has lots of fun playgrounds with sprinklers
– Take a ferry ride (Staten Island Ferry cruises by the Statue of Liberty)
– Children’s Museum and the Natural History Museum on the UWS are fun if you need some indoor time
– The Boathouse in Central Park is renting rowboats again if you’re up for it
– Lego store near Madison Square Park
Anon
Lol, can’t think of anything other than maybe central park?
Anon
The transit museum
Anon
Oh for f-s sake, tr*ns puts you in m0d now?!? The NY Tr*nsit Museum in Brooklyn is perfect for that age.
Anonymous
At that age, just riding the subway/bus, walking around looking at diggers, and going to playgrounds was enough excitement for my son. If you are willing to go inside, the Transit Museum in Brooklyn Heights is fun. The Natural History Museum is fun but a bit overwhelming and can have lines. Otherwise, parks and playgrounds! Mommypoppins.com has some good articles about destination playgrounds and activities in different areas. In Brooklyn Heights, Pier 6 in Brooklyn Bridge park is really great, especially the water lab and sandbox area. In lower Manhattan, the Seaglass carousel + Staten Island Ferry + Rockefeller Park playgrounds are a nice (long) day). There are many great playgrounds in Central Park. Central Park, Prospect Park, and Bronx Zoos are all good; I would not go out of your way to the Bronx on a short trip with a 3 year old though.
Quail
My 3yo loved the brooklyn bridge pier parks – and you can take a ferry from Manhattan which is really fun! Children’s Museum of the Arts was also pretty fun for a few hours. Bagels/donuts at a playground. I think 3 is too young to make the hassle of the Natural History museum worth hit – Transit museum was fun though!
Anonymous
Another vote for the museum that gets you into mod! My kid loved it at that age. She especially enjoyed the vintage turnstiles.
anon
It will be warm on Sat and hot on Sunday, so you might want to plan around being outdoors in the cooler hours (morning, especially before 10am, evenings), and indoors during the full heat of the day.
Others have already mentioned great indoor options like the Natural History Museum. There are also several children’s museums – there are at least two in Manhattan (the one previously mentioned, and the Sugar Hill Children’s Museum in Harlem), one in Brooklyn, the New York Historical Society’s DiMenna Children’s Museum… The ferries will get you out of the heat, too, or maybe the Tram to Roosevelt Island and back? The Met Museum is great and they used to allow strollers in the galleries, haven’t tried since 2020.
It might be fun to sit outside on a patio somewhere and people watch, or, if you choose a waterfront location — there are several waterfront options near Jane’s Carousel in Brooklyn, ditto for the beautiful Seaglass Carousel (mentioned in a previous post), South Street Seaport has a Momofuku SSam bar for the parents and lovely old ships for the kiddo!
anon
long comment in mod but realized I didn’t finish my thought – I meant to say if you choose a waterfront location for a bite, you can watch the ferries and other boats float by on the Hudson or East River, and this can be pretty entertaining for the kiddos.
Anonymous
If you want a park option that isn’t central park, I used to live by Gantry Plaza State Park in Long Island City and love it. I’m no longer in new york, so maybe someone has more recent intel, but it has a playground and splash pad for kids, plus bonus awesome views of Manhattan for adults (and the Pepsi sign). The East River Ferry also stops right there, so you can combo it with a ferry ride.
Anonymous
any long-distance relationship success stories? My boyfriend and I were separated when he got transferred to another state during early COVID. We made it work but now that the world is starting to get more comfortable with travel (we’re both vaccinated) it is starting to feel like a lot of work.
Anon
Yes. DH and I dated in person for 2.5 months and then were long distance for 9 months while I finished graduate school. Then I moved to his city and we lived together (same apartment) for 2 years, then we got married and he moved across the country for a postdoc position. It was easier for us than many people because he had an academic calendar, so he got to spend summers, winter and spring break with me, plus a couple of semesters he only taught once a week so he could come visit for 6 days at a time. My employer also had an office in his city so I would go stay with him and work from that office. One of us flew across the country every 2-3 weeks. We both had elite status on airlines and got lots of first class upgrades as a result.
Anon
Yes, but caveat that in my experience if only works if you have a plan for reunification. If it’s long-distance indefinitely…. that’s another story.
Anon
This.
Cat
+1
was long distance with my now-husband for law school, but we agreed we were settling – together – in the same city after graduation. Saw each other once a month and spent all breaks together.
anon
+2, this is why my LDRs failed, ultimately.
Anon
I met my husband through a friend; we were in different cities until shortly before our wedding. Buckle up, because I have a lot of opinions about this.
Not applicable to you: some people use long distance as a way of avoiding commitment. Make sure neither party is doing that.
Have a plan for being together, and ensure that the plan is not predicated on one person making all the sacrifices. We talked about this on our first date and both of us looked into moving to the other person’s city.
Tell your friends and his friends to keep their opinions to themselves. (This will come up more as you start interacting with people in person again – drinks with friends, parties, all that.) Something about a long-distance romance caused basically every single person we knew to run their mouths about our relationship as if they were experts on it. Having not often seen us interact, they projected onto us.
How much do you miss being around him? Is it hard because you want to be together or is it hard because it’s hard? If it’s the latter, it’s probably not the right relationship for you.
Anon
Husband and I started dating when he lived in separate cities and then about eight months later moved to my city to go to law school. We saw each other every 2-3 weekends when living in separate cities.
Around our two-year wedding anniversary husband moved to Michigan while I stayed in DC to finish grad school. We saw each other nearly every weekend and I still thought this was exceptionally tough. It helped to know that there was an end date – when we found out he really needed to move, we decided I would leave my graduate program with a masters’ instead of my PhD so I could move there sooner. I’m not sure how we would have done had this been an indefinite separation.
Anon
Should note that the second separation was for about 10 months. We just celebrated our 12th wedding anniversary and are doing great! But that separation time was not exceptionally great for our relationship.
The Only GenXer in the Office
Partner and I are separated right now (by a few states) while he is taking care of his dying parent. It’s been about a year at this point. I follow some advice I got here which is that we always have our next visit set up before he leaves. We also see each other once a month for at least 5 days, and FaceTime every night. I’m not going to lie, it has not been easy, especially during the pandemic. He is so stressed from being a caretaker that I feel that I can’t add to it with whatever I’m going through. But, for better or worse, right? It’s not going to be forever, and we’re doing the best we can to support each other. And eventually I’ll need him to be strong for me. I’m just trying to put my head down and get through it. And it helps that my BFF is totally salty about the entire situation, so when I’m over it, I call her and she lets me vent and doesn’t make me feel bad about it!
Anon
It only works if you have a definite end date. Don’t stay in a long distance relationship if there’s no plan for the long distance to end.
Senior Attorney
I don’t know whether this is encouraging or discouraging, but my former husband traveled a lot for work and was gone probably half the time. It could be rocky when he came home but I largely chalked that up to having to adjust each time. Then he got a long term job in town and it became clear that he was, in fact, too horrible to live with and we split up. The end. Or maybe the moral to the story is “long distance can certainly work but it is not the same as being actually together.”
Anon.
Now Husband and I dated for about 3 months then I moved across the country for law school. We never lived in the same city again until 6 months after we married. After LS I moved back closer to his then home/job but still a 3-hour drive. We knew when we got married that he’d be relocated for work somewhere far and planned for me to go with when that happened. So in some sense we always knew the long term plan was for us to live in the same city. And it was likely to be me giving up my job (note, not my career) because I had more career path options / am more portable than his career. We celebrated 11 years married this spring.
Anon
I have to do a serious home cleanout and want to sell and donate some things. If you give to the Salvation Army or City Mission, do you wash the clothing if it has been in your attic or basement before donating…or do they wash the clothing? I feel like I should wash the dust out, but I’m not sure if they also wash it. Also, where are the best places to sell things? With COVID, is this still not a good idea? Thanks.
Anon
Yes, please wash clothing and wipe down other items fully before donating – it makes things easier on the receiving organization. Sell on Facebook marketplace.
Anon
No, they definitely don’t wash it. Please give them clean, nice stuff otherwise you’re just making them throw it away for you.
Anon
It is clean, but just smells dusty or musty. But since everyone piles their clothing in those bins, I figured someone would wash them again. Guess not.
Anon
I thought they were washed before they were put out on the rack too!
Anonymous
I feel so discarded nøby this (yes, your is fjne. Ish.
Anna
Danish?
Anonymous
Yes, you wash the items.
Anon
Does anyone have a sense of when kids under 12 will be able to get shots? Specifically asking re school-aged kids (so 5-11) vs infants or young kids.
Trying to predict whether I might really be able to have schools reopen this fall and stay open (or if I should look for FT child care to start in August so that I can reliably work after losing so much time due to the pandemic). I should have gotten a nanny in March 2020 but kept hoping it would be short or that schools would open or stay open and it was 15 months of OMG yikes (except we had outdoor camps available last summer and this summer). I am shocked that I still have a job left to lose but worried that I am on my ninth life right now.
Anonymous
Not before school starts but probably in the fall. I do expect schools to open and stay open, but ours are open now and the Mayor has committed to no more remote learning (NYC). Of course, he likes to change his mind.
Anonymous
I’m expecting shots for kids ages 5-12 to roll out this fall and assuming we can visit family in Europe next winter.
Once the general population has a decent vaccination rate, I think almost all schools will reopen in person (possibly with masking in some situations), even if kids are not all vaccinated yet.
Don’t stress about your past decisions. You made the best decisions you could at the time given the information you had. There is no precedent for how to parent through a pandemic while WFH and virtual school.
Anon
Pfizer originally said they’d have data for kids 2-11 in September. Then they walked it back and said they’d have data for 5-11 in “September or October” with younger kids shortly after that. They’re cohorting them as 5-11, 2-4 and under 2 so I’m guessing each group will be 1-2 months after the previous group, in reverse age order. Keep in mind, it’s probably 6-8 weeks from when they get the data to when the shot is approved. I had REALLY hoped my 4 year old would be vaxxed for winter break international travel but now I’m not so sure unless the ped agrees to give her the shot when 5+ gets approved. Kids 5+ should be able to get shots by November or so unless something goes horribly wrong.
Anon
That said, I think schools will open unless you live in a really crazy place.
Anon
Thanks! I apparently live in a really crazy place. An island where our schools opened sometime in March on what was a week on-2 weeks off schedule, then 2 days on, no one goes on W, 2 days virtual schedule, then 5 days a week for a month and a half. How do you schedule for that?!
Other counties surrounding ours reopened. 30 minutes away is another state that reopened. I may be renting a small apartment nearby if we can’t get our act together re reopening (which was supposed to happen last fall but a vote failed at the 11th hour and they never got their act together when it seemed that every nearby school had figured it out without drama on the 11:00 news re COVID outbreaks).
I feel like high schools may reopen since those kids can get vaccinated but our rate is at 50% of adults having 1 shot and not really budging. Big US city, not some random place where “there’s no COVID here.”
Anon
Will the high school require vaccination? Because if not, it doesn’t make much sense to me to declare that automatically safer than elementary when only ~25% of teens nationally are vaxxed (and I’m assuming even lower in your area, given the low adult vax rate). I think the mixing of classes and the ease at which teens spread the virus compared to little kids easily counteracts the effects of having a small number of teens vaccinated.
Anon
I don’t think that the high schools will require vaccination, but they may have the thinking that since the kids here could be vaccinated, they are safer than ones where the kids can’t yet be vaccinated (not that they are outright safe, just more bodies in them could have the shot).
Anonymous
There is no way she will get the shot before it’s authorized for her age group, the CDC recommends it for her age group, and your state guidelines are updated to reflect the CDC guidance. I took my 12-year-old after the CDC director signed the recommendation and was turned away until the state guidance had caught up.
Anonymous
Yeah I don’t think it’s realistic to anticipate do tors being willing to do this.
Anon
It must depend on your area. In my area, they will vaccinate kids close to the cutoff if the parent consents. I know several healthy 10 and 11 year olds who’ve already gotten vaccinated just by walking into a CVS and asking for Pfizer (with a parent there to consent). I know some teens who got it when it was still 16 + that way too. And I know a 3 year old who was vaccinated (with a smaller dose) by a ped but that’s a very high risk child (in chemo for leukemia). If you don’t believe me, there’s CDC data that shows ~200k kids under 12 have currently been vaccinated, so it’s not most kids but it’s not nothing. Fwiw, I’ve discussed with my ped and she’s indicated she’s open to off-label use once it’s approved for 5+ given how close my daughter is to the cutoff but would like to see safety data for the younger age groups, which makes sense to me.
Anonymous
I’ve seen this story here before and am skeptical that the parents are giving the kids’ actual birthdates. The only way to make an appointment at CVS, Walgreens, or Walmart is to enter a date of birth that puts you in the authorized age range. If you can”t make an appointment for a kid who is too young, how would the pharmacies’ computer systems allow the pharmacists to adminster the vaccine unless the parents fudged the birthdates?
Anonymous
Late to this but I got my 11 year old vaccinated at Walgreens after it was approved for 12 and up. We didn’t lie about his birthday. We walked in so we didn’t make an appointment online. The pharmacist commented that he was not covered by the EUA, I said I knew and we were ok with it. I had talked to our pediatrician in advance who said she had no concerns. I’m sure she would not have been cool with vaccinating a preschooler right now but biologically there is not a huge difference between 11 and 12, especially when you’re talking about an 11 year old boy who is large for his age and a vaccine that was tested in some petite 12 year old girls. You do realize the vaccine is also technically not approved for pregnant women, right? Any woman who gets it while pregnant is not covered by the FDA EUA either. Off label use of vaccines and dr*gs is a not a new thing and although pregnant women are more clearly at risk from severe Covid than preteens, a lot of doctors and pharmacists in our area seem to be fine with vaccinating kids who are close to the age limit.
TheElms
Pfizer said in late April that they expected the data for the kids 5+ trial to be available in August/ September. My general understanding is itt takes about a month from getting the data to file the EUA and then about a month for FDA to act on it so perhaps October in the best case scenario? I think everyone expects kids 5+ to be getting first doses before the end of 2020 at the latest.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/30/biontech-expects-covid-vaccine-data-on-kids-ages-5-to-11-as-early-as-end-of-summer.html
TheElms
This is the most recent I can find on timing: https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-start-large-study-test-covid-19-vaccine-children-below-12-2021-06-08/
AFT
Probably by Halloween, most certainly by Christmas. My kids are 10 and 8.
Honestly, I’m not worried about schools reopening, and my local district is planning a “nearly normal but spaced out, masks and cohorts/limited mixing” reopening in late August of full day school – we basically had that from April-June and did not see in-school transmission or significant spread. I am a bit concerned that, come October/November, we could see seasonal increases in cases and that could affect schools and potentially cause some closures (likely in specific hotspots versus entire states).
FWIW, we have had some level of sitter since last June as my husband and I have worked full time as lawyers from home, and currently have a sitter, so I’d put us as having to adjust a lot/needing a lot of childcare … We are planning to return to pre-covid normal (full time school + group aftercare program at school, and a little more flexibility as both of us will likely be working PT from home so can handle some afternoon stuff) starting at the beginning of the 21-22 school year.
Cb
My parents left their US house for the last time and just touched down in a new country. It’s all been so hectic (their Bay Area house isn’t sold as a sale inspection identified foundation issues). I don’t think I’ve quite processed that I won’t ever see the house I grew up in again? Or even the town, as my grandma is moving north, so I wouldn’t have a reason to make the 7,000 mile trip.
Anon
Aw I’m sure that’s difficult. But it will be so great to have your parents much closer!
Cb
Yes, just need to get fully vaxxed and Portugal on the UK’s green list. My son always asks when the germs will go away and he can see grandma and papa, and my mom tells me that she watches the last video of them together (my son wandering through the airport saying “we’re going on a grandma hunt, we’re going to catch a grandma) and cries.
Anon
Awww. Hugs. I hope you can all be together soon.
Anonymous
It will work out all right. I knew when I got on the plane to move across the country for my first job that I’d never see my childhood home (or elderly dog, which was much more heartbreaking) again. It was several years before I could afford to go visit my mother in the place where she’d relocated in my home state. 20+ years later I still haven’t been back to my hometown. My husband and our kids have never seen it. We’ve all survived just fine.
Parents grow and change and move on with their lives too, and they don’t owe it to their adult children to keep the family home as a museum and reunion center. You are incredibly fortunate to have your parents still alive, married, and moving closer to you! Their overseas retirement sounds like an amazing experience.
Anon
I don’t know if I’m looking for advice, commiseration, or what.
I just started talking to 2 recruiters about making an exit from public accounting (top 10 firm but not B4, 5.5 years in P.A and CPA licensed, same firm since graduating undergrad). The people I work with and the firm have genuinely been good to me, and I think they would want fight to try to keep me if/when they know I’m leaving. I thought I’d be okay making a lateral transfer within my firm and set up a rotation for the summer in due diligence. My plan was to feel out this potential lateral transfer through August and start talking to recruiters now just to see what the job market is like. No serious intent to interview until after mid July.
But now I don’t know. I have two job descriptions from the recruiters for big name, key player companies in my practice industry. Slightly different roles that my experience would be a fit for, and I could see myself in either one. Both would be door openers if I stay in this industry in the future.
I could put myself in the running for these roles now. But I don’t feel prepared for interviewing and I feel like I wouldn’t be giving a fair shake to this rotation I’m in. But am I just looking for an excuse to avoid jumping to into an unknown role? I think the answer is go for interviews on these two jobs. Maybe I’m just looking for reassurance that career moves are scary. I feel like trying to break away from public accounting is like breaking away from a cult (an exaggeration, obviously)- partners all the time talk about how other jobs don’t have the same flexibility, the same opportunities etc.
CPA Lady
Here’s the deal though. Accounting is flexible. I’ve seen people leave for industry and go back to public after a while. Plenty of people do that. So go on the interviews. Take the jobs if either seems great and it’s offered to you. And if you try it for a few years and hate it, you can always go back to public accounting. Just keep up your professional network.
And yes, big firm life is totally a cult. Those people think they have the only interesting and smart and important jobs in the field, and they have to think that or they’d be depressed about how much they’ve given up to stay at jobs that require so much. I left a firm like that after drinking the kool aid and it was a rough transition, emotionally. But all the flexibility in the world was not worth working those hours at that stress level. And industry jobs are getting more flexible all the time. If you need flexibility at your next job, emphasize that in the interview/offer phase. An interview isn’t just them feeling you out, it’s an opportunity for you to feel them out.
Anonymous
Oh my god girl take the interview!!! Go for it!
Cat
+1 — worst that happens is you stay where you are!
Anon
Anyone who had COVID early last year not gotten a vaccine yet or only one dose?
Anon
Everyone I know who had the virus got the vaccine. If you’re really worried you could get J and J so you don’t have to deal with second dose side effects.
Cat
+1, and both doses. The side effects from dose 2 can be annoying but by no means debilitating.
Anonymous
I wouldn’t count on the J&J side effects’ being milder. My husband and I both did not have COVID and got J&J, and we both had side effects much more severe than what seems typical for the mRNA vaccines. I had a 102-degree fever, nausea, and a headache comparable to a severe migraine for 48 hours. I literally felt sicker than I’ve ever been in my entire life, including the time I had pneumonia and the multiple times I’ve had severe cases of influenza.
Anonymous
No that’s stupid and I choose not to spend time with stupid people
Anon
https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/only-single-dose-needed-for-those-with-covid
anon
Right. My sister and BIL both had Covid ~ 1 year ago, but she says they’re not getting the vaccine bc “our bodies know how to fight it off.” UGH.
anon
No, everyone I know that had covid got the vaccine. Anecdotally, I know two people who had lingering symptoms (breathlessness from walking up stairs for people who used to run daily) that actually went away after they got the vaccine
Anonymous
Yes–there are anecdotal reports that the vaccine has improved symptoms in those with long COVID. If if I’d had the virus I would definitely get vaccinated whether or not I had lingering symptoms, just in case there was long-term harm brewing that I wasn’t yet aware of. (Did not have virus, did get vaccinated.)
Anon
That’s interesting. I get a lot of chest congestion I never had an issue with before.
Formerly Lilly
The vaccine didn’t help my post-Covid congestion and sinus swelling, nor did it help with the joint pain, but it did help some with the fatigue. I’d say the fatigue is less than half of what it was prior to the vaccine. The first dose of the vaccine made me very sick for about 24 hours, the second dose only barely made me sick. It took the second dose before the fatigue improved.
anon
No, I got COVID early this year and got both doses as soon as I could, as did my DH who also had it.
Anonymous
This “one dose” thing is nonsense. I know that, anecdotally, significant second dose side effects exist, but I know a lot of vaccinated people, and not a single one has had more than flu-like symptoms for more than 8 hours. Not one. Most suffered much less, as did I. And the second dose creates side effects not because it is different from the first — it is the same thing — but because it causes an immune response, which is the entire point. Don’t be silly by making up your own vaccination regimen. There is not a single reputable medical source suggesting that someone who had Covid over a year ago does not need to be vaccinated just like the rest of us.
Anon
These shots have only been in arms for 6 mos, and people in the US have only had the virus since 12/19. We really don’t know anything.
Anon
https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/only-single-dose-needed-for-those-with-covid
Anonymous
Anyone find that their friends/family are more irritable as the pandemic fades? It’s odd in my social circle (all in the NYC, NJ, DC areas). The people who were out and about more than they needed to be last year — out to get coffee all the time, outdoor dining before it was known that outdoor transmission isn’t much of an issue, coming and going as they pleased — are the ones who are the most cranky now as the world reopens and don’t want to see anyone, picking fights over little things etc. The ones who locked down and stayed indoors for weeks at a time (which the prior group mocked them for/told them it was bad for mental health) are the ones who are out and about, acting normal, being nice. What is going on here?
Anonymous
Well, people who stayed home out of concern for their safety and others’ are problem more likely to be nice people. And vice versa.
Anonymous
You’re reading way too much into a tiny sample size. That’s all that’s going on.
Anon
Yup.
Anon
Concur.
Anonymous
A lot of projection in your ‘outdoor dining’ shop. There was never evidence that the novel coronavirus spread readily outside, don’t get revisionist on this.