Office Beauty Hall of Fame: Orgasm Afterglow Lip Balm

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1. If you found out your husband/long-term SO had recently started calling a HS girlfriend, after no contact over the prior 25 years, would you be upset? Would it matter what the conversations are, or is that irrelevant? Would it matter if HS girlfriend is single vs. married/partnered?

   1. It would depend how I found out. If he was trying to include me in a couples’ date night, no? But pretty much any other way, yes I’d be upset.

   2. Is this you and your husband? And you’re upset and he’s giving you pushback about why you shouldn’t be upset?

      How has your marriage been? What kind of man has he been generally? Do you have any reasons other than these phone calls to doubt his fidelity? Who contacted whom…why and how?

   3. Yes, the content of the conversations obviously matter. It also matters why they got in contact – did he see her at a reunion? Or did he start calling her out of the blue? I don’t know that her marital status matters much – people cheat.

   4. Wouldn’t matter. I’d be pissed. That’s 100% not appropriate. Maybe if he asked me first, knowing that he was about to stumble into a minefield, and there was open communication about it, I could consider it. But otherwise hell no. Likewise, I would never contact an ex, ever. It would be equally disrespectful to my husband.

   5. On the single premise of them being ex’s, no, I wouldn’t be upset. In fact, I think that’s kind of childish, banning communication with a high school ‘ex’ just because they’re ex’s.

      If there’s more to the story (which I suspect there is), then I can see a lot of reasons why I’d be upset by this development. Can you provide more context?

      1. I do want to echo your sentiment that there’s nothing inherently wrong with exes being in contact with each other, I’m on friendly terms with two exes, and good terms with a few others in that we’re connected on social media but we don’t interact much. So I think it’s unfair to say that anyone who talks to an ex for any reason is clearly not over them, and they’re clearly intending to start an affair and break up a marriage, but details absolutely matter here.

         1. +1. Details matter, but I also occasionally talk to exes and I don’t usually bring it up. It’s honestly not meaningful to me. So it’d be weird to randomly say, “hey you know who i texted with today? My high school boyfriend!” In fact, I have done this and mostly it’s been met with “why are you telling me this?”
            I do think “recently started calling” sounds like there is more to this story.

   6. Multiple phone calls after 25 years of nothing, not even the occasional Facebook interaction? Have you overheard any part of them or do you just know he’s been calling her and you don’t know why? And he’s definitely initiating it? I don’t about upset being my first reaction, but it would strike me as odd and I’d certainly want to know the reason. People get blasts from the past for all sorts of random reasons – fundraising, job or business opportunities, MLM schemes, death or marriage of a mutual friend, sudden need for a kidney, are just some of the stuff that comes to mind. Now, if he tells you it’s none of your business, or he’s really vague about it (“oh . . . just catching up . . .”) that’s a reason to be concerned and yeah, a little upset. Even if she’s married or in a relationship.

   7. If this is your husband, and you are the one who feels upset, that’s how you feel and that in itself is worthy of some conversations in your marriage. Your feelings don’t have to be objectively justified by strangers on the internet to be valid and worthy of care. Good luck.

      1. +1 we might feel the same way in this situation, that doesn’t mean it’s ridiculous to feel that way. Definitely talk to your husband about it.

   8. I wouldn’t be upset about my husband chatting with an ex about neutral topics (work, kids, travel, life in general, etc.) I’d be upset if there was flirting or if he was confiding in her about problems in our relationship because to me that’s a boundary that shouldn’t be crossed. That said, I know my husband would probably tell me if he’d recently had contact with an ex and I’d be hurt if he was being secretive, because that would be so unusual for him and would suggest to me that he was hiding something.

   9. Did he find her old sweatshirt in the closet? (sorry, too soon?)

      I think this is weird too.

      1. Snort. Good one.

      2. +1

      3. Heh.

   10. More context: He says he randomly googled her and found a work email. Sent an email late at night, expecting no immediate reply. She replied. He asked to talk on the phone. There have been multiple calls now.
       The discussions are platonic – catching up after years of no contact, current events, work. They are not linked on social media or by any personal connections. They did not even go to the same school or run in the same social circles except when they were dating. It turns out they do work in related fields, but he did not know that/that was not the impetus for the contact. Old GF knows he is married and has kids. That subject was discussed from the beginning as part of the “catching up.”

       1. I think you have to ask him questions, then. What does he hope to gain by reconnecting? What made him curious? What has he learned from contacting her? All of his answers could be completely platonic, assuming good intentions and all. But I think you are very well within your rights to ask more questions.

       2. Was he hiding this from you? How did you find out?

          I do think it’s slightly weird and I would at the very least raise an eyebrow if this were my husband. I probably wouldn’t be satisfied with “I randomly googled her” as an explanation for why he reached out. If it upsets you y’all should discuss it, I think.

          1. I am not the wife. I do not know if the wife knows.

             1. Not sure it’s any of your business then.

             2. It sounds from the way you’re describing this like you’re assuming she doesn’t. Why assume that?

             3. Wait, OP, you’re the HS GF? Your ex from HS randomly emailed you – at work – out of the blue and he said right away that he’s married with kids so obvi he’s not hitting on you? And now you’re wondering if his wife knew about these conversations, would she be upset?

                If an ex emailed me at work I would be super freaked out and block and delete immediately. It’s so invasive and weird. Why not reach out through facebook/other social media? Oh that’s right his wife probably has his fb password so he had to email me at work so it looks like it’s a professional communication.

             4. Wait are you the HS girlfriend?

             5. I am not assuming anything. No idea. But he makes contact at times when wife and kids are sleeping.

             6. Who ARE you in this scenario– the husband, the wife, or the ex-girlfriend?

             7. Just ask him if she knows. And if you’re uncomfortable because you think he’s calling you at weird times, don’t answer the phone.

             8. Oh wow.

                I was going to be all “not necessarily anything to worry about,” but if the other party to the conversations is concerned enough to post about it, I think the wife should be worried.

       3. Yes, but married people cheat all the time, often with other married people (I know cheaters like this who eventually got together after getting divorced from the then-spouses even though they have 9 kids between them).

          This seems very . . . IDK. Why hasn’t your husband made new friends that he is going back to an old ex all of a sudden for . . . mere chit-chat?

       4. It’s super weird. I guess googling your ex is a thing some people do, but actually reaching out? To her WORK email? Ugh.

          Obviously he’s talked to you about this, though. Has he been up front with you about this the whole time? Or did he come clean all at once? Why did he say he reached out to her? What does he hope to get out of all this contact?

       5. I’m guessing the reason you’re posting here is because you and DH talked about it and he’s telling you this is all perfectly normal nothing to see here, and now you’re questioning whether you’re being overbearing by being upset.

          You’re not being overbearing. You have every right to your feelings. You have every right to a partner who will openly listen to and consider your feelings and not try to convince you you’re in the wrong for thinking that a weird situation is weird.

   11. Honestly, I’d love to hear from my ex’s from 25 years ago! I’m in a happy/healthy long term relationship. I’m secure in myself and with my partner (if the roles were reversed). If you’re worried your SO will cheat because of a few phone calls with someone he dated as a child, there are MAJOR underlying issues at hand.

       1. I agree with you Anon, but from previous discussions here, there are few who do.

          1. It’s often contextual – reaching out through social media or asking for contact info from mutual friends or staying in contact after a reunion is pretty common but g00gling for a work email address has a weird vibe.

       2. This is how I feel. I have no social media he could easily identify. We don’t have mutual friends he could contact to just trawl for info to quell any general curiosity, or to ask for personal contact info. So I don’t find the fact of contact or the method to be alarming or invasive. (In fact it happened once before, about 20 years ago — just a few emails back and forth a couple of nights.) I am happy to be in touch and like just chatting. Plus, there is some possibility that I will move to his area and he could be helpful to me in that event, or even in making that happen, so I don’t want to make anything weird or to cut off contact. But I also do not want to be part of a conflict of any kind in his relationship. I am single, so I don’t know how people who have been married/together for a long time feel about these things. I suppose it depends on the people and the nature and strength of their relationship. I have no sense of that at this point.

          1. Definitely just ask him.

          2. I think the fact these conversations are happening late at night while his wife is sleeping gives you some pretty good insight into his intentions. I would be shocked if he doesn’t turn out to be a sketchball.

          3. Um, no. You know the answer is no.

          4. I am friends with a lot of exes. My rules are that I don’t put up with *any* funny business from them at all: they respect my relationship or they can find a different friend.

             I try to set up events where my fiance can meet them, and if my fiance gets a weird vibe, the friendship would change.

             I don’t have conversations with them that I would be uncomfortable with my fiance hearing about.

             I make every effort to get to know their wives or girlfriends. We don’t have to be besties, but it’s important that they understand why their husbands/boyfriends have me in their lives.

             It’s amazing how low-drama the whole situation is, once you all act like adults.

             If someone isn’t doing some approximation of the above, there’s no harm in investigating further.

   12. Of course I would be upset, and you are right to be upset. After all, our high school boyfriends were, in all likelihood the first men (other then our MDs), who put their hands (and maybe other things) you know where. So it is right to question why, after 25 years, he is goeing back to this woman, who is much older now and presumably MARRIED also. My guess is that he is reliving his high school year’s, now that he is at least in his mid 40’s (18+25), and wants to return to the days of innocents, where putting his hand up a girl’s skirt was considered riskee! If he does not come clean, you tell him he will NOT have access, and believe me, that will do the trick, b/c I can NOT imagine, unless your HUBBY is Brad Pit, that this woman will want much to do with him, now that he is 43, fat and balding. Having you slam the door to him s-xueally will surely cause him to rethink revisiting his youth.

       Also, what precipitated this move? Are you on good terms? Have you stopped giving him s-x? If so, maybe this is the reason. But if not, and you are still romantic with him, do NOT trust any flimsy excuses he may be giving you. It is either you or her, but be prepared to leave him if you find out he is not faithful. But before doing so, make sure you get all the bank account records to see if he has been wining and dining this woman and if so, bring this directly to your lawyer. You should also squirrel away at least $100K, if you have it, just in case he leaves you. FOOEY on men that are not trustworthy and want to put their hands on old girlfreinds’ after you have done EVERYTHING that you can for them s-xueally! DOUBEL FOOEY!

2. Inspired by this morning’s discussion on Turks & Caicos – anyone have any tips on getting deals? Are off-season trips a really bad idea?

   1. I went to the Turks & Caicos for my honeymoon the first week of June, several years ago. We definitely got an off-season deal (7 nights for the rate of 4 nights, I believe, at Le Vele). We had a great time, but (a) it was very hot, and (b) there were a lot of mosquitoes. We did a couple of snorkeling trips and rode horses once, but mostly, we spent relatively little time on the beach during the day. It was still hot when we went to dinner, and we had to douse ourselves in bug spray (and shower before bed). I would not want to go in July or August. I’d be worried about hurricanes in September or October.

      I actually really love T&C and recommend it frequently here. But my impression is that the summer is the off season for a reason, and we were right on the edge of it being really uncomfortable.

      1. I went in mid-June about five years ago and don’t remember any bugs being a problem. I remember it being tropical and warm but not having a problem with the heat. Just a counterpoint.

   2. +1 especially any recommendations for kid friendly accommodation with kitchens but still on a resort for amentities

      1. I’m the OP from this morning. We’re staying at Windsong. The rooms have kitchens but it’s definitely a resort. Also I think all rooms are suites which will be super nice with a baby. Will report back but I’m excited about it!

   3. We used to own a place in the Turks and go a few times a year and I was married there. Off-season is off-season for a reason. But I’d also say offseason is more like late August/September/early October. Lot of things shut down then. And any major construction projects will often take advantage of times with lowest occupancy as well, so you may find a restaurant is getting it’s roof done, etc. I’ve only been once when bugs were an issue–there were like these biting sand flies. It may have been June? I can’t recall. I know I’ve been late June and July a ton though and it’s always been pleasant. August-October is hurricane season. Didn’t used to worry about that much, but given weather these days I would now. For what it’s worth, I was on the island during tropical storm Bertha. It was scary when the airport closed. But truly it rained hard very quickly and disappeared very quickly as well. Because the ground is sand, it’s not like when it floods near me where I live in the midwest. There, the streets flooded while we were at breakfast and were normal by the time dinner came around.

3. Reposting from the morning thread – Anyone knowledgeable about Roatan? We are heading to a wedding there in a few months. Wedding venue is in French Harbor, and while I usually opt to stay at the venue where a wedding is being held, my initial research suggests the West Bay might be a better option since we want to turn this into a short vacation with a couple of extra days. Is the West Bay’s main draw being party central, or is it really a better place to spend time if you’re looking for sandy beaches and nice restaurants? We’d rather stay in one place and not move hotels as we’ll only be there about 4-5 days. We’ll check on what some of our other friends going will be doing, as well, but curious for some recs. Thanks!

   1. Personally, I do not like the West Bay area. When I’ve been there (only twice and most recently in 2013), it has been quite crowded– it was where the cruise ships stopped and the large resorts were. The beach was admittedly very nice – white sand and crystal blue water, but it was not my taste as far as atmosphere goes. I haven’t spent time in French Harbor, but I loved the West End. It was more quaint, low-key and relaxing. The West End had a smaller beach area, but the water was really nice and you could swim out to some pretty good snorkeling.

      1. Thank you! I was worried about that, we definitely don’t want the cruise ship vibe. Will check out the West End.

   2. I used to live in Honduras. It depends which days of the week you will be there. If you can figure out which days the cruise ships come (it used to be Tue, Wed, Thu) and you are going to be on West Bay beach NOT on those days, its great. Roatan is small and trasnsport via taxi is pretty easy so maybe stay at the wedding venue then move hotels for the days on your own? I like the beach end better than the town end.

4. Has anyone had success with advocating for better/ more attentive nursing care for a hospitalized relative? We’ve tried talking directly to the nurses and to the “patient advocate” and received apologies, but not an actual improvement in the level of care.

   My grandfather has been in and out of the hospital with a very serious condition. He can’t go to the bathroom alone or with a visiting relative–he requires nurse assistance. On more than one occasion, nurses have left him alone and unable to use the bathroom for hours, despite repeated pages for help, and then simply said they were “busy” when they come later to clean him up. This has occurred during endoscopy/colonoscopy prep so no, he cannot hold it. It’s not a life-threatening level of neglect but it’s humiliating and distressing for him and I have to believe this can’t be the way it “should” be handled.

   1. a) ask for a specific contact or caseworker at the home and start keeping records of the interactions, b) look into whether there are advocates via social services (or maybe a group like AARP? or through the society for his condition?)

   2. Can you change hospitals?

      1. We’d rather not do that. This hospital is renowned for his condition and he’s had good results from his doctors. But they just don’t seem capable of keeping enough nurses and nursing assistants on the floor, it’s really frustrating. I’m hoping we can fix the inadequacies but keep him where he is.

         1. From experience –
            A family member needs to be there 24 hours, yes even sleep there.
            Be super nice to the nurses
            Listen and watch
            Be very clear on your expectations
            Staffing at facilities is fickle and they don’t have all the time they would like to have.

            1. This is the only answer I have. I think this is much better advice than escalating the complaint to higher and higher levels of hospital admin (which honestly strikes me as naive).

   3. Can you escalate beyond the patient advocate?

      Keep good records of dates/times when this occurred and which nursing staff (if known) were working.

      1. You should absolutely escalate this, as it is unacceptable care. The hospital’s administration will want to know how patients are being treated.

         Look on the hospital website for a patient bill of rights (or similar) to find the contact information for the patient services department. If you can’t find that, honestly, it’s worthwhile to contact the chief nursing officer, chief medical officer, or even the hospital president. If you have dates and times of the occurrences of neglect, they will have records of who was staffed at the time.

   4. Following with interest. I have a friend who has been in the hospital for the past month. He has no family, just friends. He can’t speak for himself. Every few days the nurses and doctors rotate and they over-sedate him, leaving him bedridden and completely unresponsive to therapy. His friends and I are doing our best to advocate for him, but we are running into difficulties due to the constant rotation of caregivers. We finally got some positive results after getting in touch with the hospital Chief of Staff through our social network. I wish we didn’t have to get in touch with the Chief of Staff to get results. I would love to hear other commentator’s experiences and how they handled these situations.

   5. Sorry to say, this is how it has been in my experience. Nurses are staffed for visits every 1-2 hours and don’t have time to pop in and help people go to the bathroom. They don’t want you going to the bathroom yourself because of the risk of falls. The nurses use catheters, diapers, and chucks pads instead. You might ask if a urinal next to the bed is an option if he can do that himself.

      1. I think it’s gone beyond “how it is” status– we’re talking about 4+ hours while on colonoscopy prep. Not to get too graphic but I think you can imagine the situation. We aren’t talking about urine. :( He does have a urinal at least but that isn’t really the issue.

         I’ll talk to my mom about some of the tips on this thread. Beyond getting as many names/dates/times as possible I’m still at a bit of a loss.

   6. My husband was just hospitalized, and nursing supervisors came around periodically and gave me their card. Is there someone in that role you could try? This may also be something a “Patient Care Technician” or someone below the nurse level of training could deal with. Either way, it does sound like the Patient Rep ought to be helpful with. Is it possible for you or a trusted local friend to spend some days with him in his room and see what is going on? If they are just woefully short staffed, it may be hard to get anything done, and switching hospitals might be your best option. But generally speaking I think being a squeaky wheel IN PERSON will help the most, which I acknowledge is really hard to do at a distance and with a job.

   7. I think I would hire someone to handle this (your own patient advocate, a private nurse, or another professional caretaker). I say this because my grandmother was killed in an accident caused by neglect and carelessness at a badly understaffed hospital when hospitalized for something that was not life-threatening. The nurses involved asked my family to bring a lawsuit against the hospital. They said this was the only way anything would ever change. This was one of the better hospitals in an area known for good hospitals. If you’ve ever attended someone at a hospital for several days before, you’ll have some idea of how many simple mistakes you can prevent just by being there. Trust me that someone with medical knowledge about safe procedures and protocols will catch even more.

      1. This. If the family can’t be there 24/7 I think your best option is to throw money at the problem if at all possible.

   8. I am a lawyer in risk management and I handle these types of situations from a legal perspective for healthcare companies. I have worked for both hospitals and long term care facilities. This type of care is not acceptable. I would escalate your complaints to the charge nurse and if not taken seriously, then I would escalate further to the Administrative Nurse on Call.
      If you cannot get movement from the Administrative Nurse on Call, then I would recommend contacting the risk management department or legal department of the hospital (or hospital entity). I guarantee that the risk management department would be interested in knowing about this type of substandard care and will work to remedy it. (Ask me how I know- see above job description)
      If that does not work, I would recommend contacting the state department that oversees hospital licensing in your state. Leaving a person unable to move in their own waste for hours on end is considered a form of abuse by most state licensing boards.

      1. Okay, if a lawyer says this is worth escalating, then escalate. But I would also get someone to stay at the hospital if you can. Something is already wrong if this is happening in the first place, despite whatever pressure already exists from above not to neglect patients.

   9. Only be repeated yelling and involving escalating higher ups. Honestly some hospitals are just bad.

      1. Come on, isn’t this like yelling at the waitstaff, reaming them out to the manager, and then sitting back down to enjoy your meal and whatever food they bring you? If a hospital is “just bad,” I would be even more worried about potentially making an enemy among the only people there who will actually be handling my food (and my medications and my body and my patient records, etc.). I realize that 99% of staff would never retaliate against a patient even through poor service, but when you’re as vulnerable as you are when you are hospitalized, you need all the friends you can get.

         1. I’m just saying, this is the only thing that has ever worked for my family advocating for my mother.

   10. My brother got sepsis and then a complication called ARDS where his lungs shut down this spring. He was in a coma for a month.

       Someone has to be there, all the time. There is no way around this, unfortunately. My mom and dad, his girlfriend and I rotated so that someone was there at all times. He had tubes in everywhere but they would let bags of meds run out, bags of p00p and urine get full, etc. They wouldn’t change his gown, wouldn’t change his sheets. He was supposed to get turned every so often and they wouldn’t do it for 12+ hours. I came in one time and he had blood and urine and fluids leaked all over his gown, his skin underneath was raw and they hadn’t changed him. I felt really bad for the people in the unit with him who had no one to advocate for them, especially the folks who were unconscious or semiconscious. He was in a large public teaching hospital that had good reviews for care and this still happened.

       Be super, super nice and polite to the nurses but be firm about what your loved one needs. Ask again, nicely, if something doesn’t happen the first time. Don’t assume people know or are talking to each other, even though they are supposed to. There are lots of people in and out of ICU/critical care units and one person does not tell the next one what’s going on. Use the whiteboard in the room to communicate about who is there and who they are to the patient so the nurses, doctors and therapists get to know you.

       Despite our advocacy my brother ended up with a pressure sore (bedsore) that is still not healed 6 months later. We asked about it when he was in the hospital but were not vigilant enough because we basically thought he was not going to make it until the day he woke up. I can’t stress enough how important it is to be an advocate for your loved one, especially if they cannot speak for themselves.

5. This morning’s discussion on books clubs got me wondering . . .

   Do men read fiction? Or is fiction gendered (or maybe PEN/Faulker fiction is universal, but best sellers aren’t?)?

   And for women, especially book club women, do you read nonfiction? Do book clubs?

   My husband is a non-reader (sadly) and my father is an engineer. Growing up, I read lots of VC Andrews and Ian Fleming, but also lots of biography (largely of the Henry 8, famous queens, famous people, Poor Little Rich Girl, etc.) and then nonfiction (love me some true crime, but also lots of history). I don’t read a lot of fiction, but largely b/c I always wanted to be a writer and it makes me sad to read dreck (like “I could do this” and when I read Edith Wharton I just wanted to tell Lilly to marry a sensible rich man and stop her downward descent . . .; it was unbearable knowing what would happen). I liked fiction well enough in high school. I read the book reviews in the WSJ and NY Times b/c I feel like I learn something from just reading the reviews and I don’t have time to read that many new books.

   I’m thinking that my reading tastes skew maybe not masculine but not towards what I’m guessing book clubs read (so I could totally join a book club of Old Guys who’d read and discuss a book about the Portuguese colonies and their role in the slave trade in the Americas or WW2 or something having to do with Napoleon). Or maybe there are book clubs for discussing books like Hillbilly Elegy or books on the heroin/pill epidemic.

   1. my husband reads sci fi and history. but (and I’ve had this conversation with five different girlfriends) men are just not social the way that women are, so I’ve never heard of a men’s book club or anything.

      1. I think it’s more that when men get together in book clubs, they get paid for it. I know a lot of academics.

   2. So many, many famous authors are men. Why would they write fiction but not read it? Of course men read fiction.

      1. +1

         It doesn’t sound like OP has read much fiction beyond the standard high school historical fare. No mention of British/Canadian/Nigerian authors. I mean ‘Someone Knows My Name’ by Lawrence Hill is a masterpiece. Or the Golden Man Booker Prize winner The English Patient by Michael Ondaatje. Or modern women authors. All of whom are producing fanastic work. Let alone works originally written in other languages and translated into English.

         Most of the lawyers I know primarily read fiction for non-work related reading.

   3. In my experience, it varies by book club. I’ve been in 5 different ones. 1. All female, read biographies. 2. All female, only read female authors, but on a variety of topics. 3. Mixed group, ready fiction. 4. Mixed group, read history and modern books like Hillbilly Elegy. 5. All female, mainly read light fiction and was largely an excuse to get together and drink wine.

   4. DH and I both read fiction and non-fiction and often pass book recommendations to each other, so I don’t think it’s unusual for people of any gender to read both. I’m currently reading non-fiction about the role of race in 20th-century politics and he’s tearing through a campy crime series.

      I think fiction gets unfairly characterized as feminine and therefore lesser, which is a shame because good fiction writing is high art. It’s particularly ironic given that the first female writers were considered disreputable and shameless (almost as bad as female actors! ye gads!) because fiction writing was considered part of the “public,” “masculine” sphere. Once women start being identified with a particular activity it somehow winds up looked down upon, I wonder why…

      1. Would you mind sharing the name of the book you’re reading? Would like to check it out. TIA!

   5. I’m in a book club and we’ve actually found that we get better discussion out of either nonfiction (Killers of the Flower Moon and Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks were big hits) or historical fiction. I guess being able to connect the book to something “real” makes it easier to discuss? Actually now that you mention it, we had a great discussion from Hillbilly Elegy too!

   6. So many pretentious readers today. We are all Very Impressed.

      1. What on earth about the above posts was pretentious? The responses are people who read: biographies, variety, fiction, history/modern, light fiction with a side of wine, fiction and non-fiction, race and politics, nonfiction, and historical fiction. Where do you find pretension? Do you just not read and feel embarrassed that other people do? There was not an ounce of pretension in any of the above posts, and if you read them that way, that’s a you problem.

         1. I think she was referring to the OP not the comments.

            1. I made the comment to OP, and about the poster this morning. This idea that women read stupid sh1t and the men read the Important stuff, and oh by the way, I’m more like a man! That idea can f right off, and so can the OP.

      2. I’m in an all-female bookclub. We read fiction and non-fiction. We’ve read Go Set a Watchman, All the Light We Cannot See, The Goldfinch… and also Scruples and The Thornbirds!

         No need for a bookclub to be about “worthy” books. We had a great discussion about Scruples!

   7. There are a wide variety of book clubs because people like reading different things. I’m in a human rights book club and we read a mix of fiction and nonfiction. I find it really interesting and I get exposed to books that I otherwise wouldn’t have read. (I’m ignoring the gendered reading comment because yes stereotypes exist but it’s silly and limiting to care about whether you are reading something that might be considered masculine or feminine.)

   8. I first knew my SO from a science fiction bookgroup. It had an equal balance of men and women and to this day remains one of the best ones I’ve attended. When we both attended we were married to other people, it was only whenI moved back to town after several years away that we re-connected on a dating app. I recognized him right away, he knew me as soon as we met for our date. We definitely slept together that night and 3 years later we’re still happy and together and we both love telling people that we first knew each other from the bookgroup.

      1. Ha! What a great story! Congratulations!

   9. Just google “female characters written by male authors” and you’ll find a ton of essays that will help answer your question about gendered fiction. I’d argue that bestsellers are male-gendered, and female fiction authors have trouble getting published if they’re not following the Sophie Kinsella vein.

      I’m in a book club (where we read the books, and there are no restrictions on the books we pick) because I was reading primarily Young Adult just to find nuanced and diverse female leads, and I wanted to expand my genres, maybe even find a male lead who wasn’t a pretentious a-hole. I wanted to read things that I would never pick off the library shelf. Since we all rotate picking a book, I’ve read a ton of books that I would never have picked, and I haven’t liked some of them, but I’ve enjoyed thinking critically about them and getting to hash out my thoughts with other smart women.

   10. My SO reads science fiction, fantasy, and general fiction. I’m in a book club with two men and three women, and we discuss mostly fiction, although we’ve also read graphic novels, short stories, long-form feature articles, and poetry. One of my best friends reads about 50/50 fiction and non-fiction, particularly biographies and science.

       I think you need to slow your roll on looking down on fiction. Yes, there is a lot of unrealistic, escapist fiction. Yes, a lot of book clubs read that. But maybe try reading some “serious” novels and you’ll change your tune. Look into Pulitzer Prize-winning novels.

       And I have to roll my eyes at your comment that “I could do this.” Have you tried? It’s harder than it looks.

   11. I’m in 2 book clubs–one coed and one that’s all women. The only rules in the clubs are that we rotate who picks the book, and the picker gets absolute discretion. It’s really fun because everyone reads books they wouldn’t otherwise read. There’s a good mix of fiction and non-fiction in the respective clubs, and the men in the coed club pick fiction vs nonfiction at about the same rate as the women. The men and women across both clubs also choose all kinds of different works of fiction.

       I hate the idea that the most revered fiction + nonfiction are “men’s” books and other books are “women’s” books. That just doesn’t line up with my experience, and it is sexist.

       It’s ok to like fiction or to not like fiction. But I also hate the notion of “dreck” or the idea that a smart person who would like to write a book “could” write certain books. I mean, maybe, but the people I hear say this are people who would like to write, not people who actually do write. It takes a lot of practice and skill to be able to tell a story over a couple hundred pages and then actually get it published. Even books that are somewhat formulaic take skill, and the vast majority of us don’t have that skill. The people who do have that skill are generally people who actually write fiction (either for a living or as a hobby). And people who write fiction (even “dreck”) read fiction.

   12. Plenty of book clubs read nonfiction. The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks was a very popular bookclub book and so was Hillbilly Elegy. Plenty of men read fiction, you probably have at least heard of a lot of dude-appeal authors like Tom Clancy, Robert Ludlum, and the like. Sounds like you’ve read James Bond novels, which were definitely (offensive) romance/wish fulfillment novels for men… maybe reading better fiction is in order if that is one of your comparisons!

       1. John Grisham, Lee Child, everything Clancy, Stephen King….there are all sorts of not-serious fiction books by men out there, and lots of men read them. None of those authors are looking to win the Booker, and the primary audience is men. The idea that men write “literary” fiction and women write low-brow fiction is just silly…and certainly not supported by what my DH reads!

6. This is my go-to lip product lately, for what it’s worth.

   1. Kat mentions it’s coral-y. Do you happen to know how it compares to the Dior Lip Glow in the original pink glow/light pink?

      1. Unfortunately, I haven’t tried the Dior Lip Glow, so I can’t compare. This is a slightly coral pink. I don’t generally think coral flatters me, but the color on this is subtle and warms up my face nicely.

         1. Thanks! I also don’t find coral too flattering on me, that’s why I asked. But this is good to know :)

   2. I love this balm! It is a warmer shade of pink and I can see how it would read coral on certain complexions. I received a small sample of this in a recent Sephora order and fell in love. I’m excited that the whole matte lip trend finally has some alternatives. I don’t care how long my lipstick lasts if my lips feel like sand paper.

      1. +! THIS

7. We are planning a kitchen remodel. So far we got a quote from one builder and one cabinet supplier/kitchen designer. Any advice for how to avoid extra unwanted surprises (I know there will be some!) or try to minimize costs? Thanks!

   1. House or apartment? In our apartment I wish I knew to do the bathroom floors at the same time we did the kitchen because we needed special equipment to gut it. In either one I’d note that knobs can be an extra $$$$ easily.

   2. We found a place for tile/flooring/countertops that was more of a wholesaler and saved a LOT that way. Also we got slightly better deals on materials paying cash. I got all our knobs at Home Depot – very inexpensive and I’m happy with them. I waited until everything was installed, got a whole bunch of different handles (one of each) to try it in the actual kitchen and then returned what didn’t work/got more of the ones I liked.

      I thought built-ins in cabinets were so worth it and I wish I had done a few more pull out drawers. Try to buy your appliances around a big sale – Columbus Day, Veteran’s, etc., the fall is a good time for this. You can usually get the sales price and have the store hold delivery until you’re ready. It may also be a good time to get a few other things done around the house that are easy enough for the contractor but would cost you a lot to do independently (e.g., you’ll be doing electrical work so if you ever wanted to switch out a light fixture or add some plugs…)

      Honestly, we didn’t have many unwanted surprises cost-wise but we also got lucky with a really good contractor who didn’t try to rip us off. The one thing I wish I did plan for was for everything to just take longer than you think.

   3. Countertops are really expensive per sq ft. Think hard about whether you need that waterfall island. Amazon Warehouse deals has a lot of open box deals on faucets, etc. Check delivery costs, especially for things like concrete tile (insane). There is a cheaper version of most things, so if you fall in love with expensive tile, lighting fixture, knobs, etc, look for a version that has a similar design but lower price tag. Consider labor costs – mosaic tile might be cheaper/easier to install than single tiles set in a herringbone pattern since each has to be cut and placed separately. Also consider how much of the original layout you can preserve – moving a sink or stove a short distance (like a foot or so) may be NBD, but relocating them a long way can be expensive if you have to move pipes, waste lines, and gas lines.

8. Reposting from morning:

   For those of you who are A-type and are in a relationship with someone who is not – what strategies do you use to get big projects, where both partners need to chip in a good deal, accomplished?

   Husband and I have gone through some big life events in the last 10+ years but I’ve always felt that I was leading and pushing the effort, getting all the logistics together, finding help where needed, and just making things work. I’ve felt I could not rely on husband to identify what he needs to do and get it done. He is a huge procrastinator in life, with moments of genius every so often that keep him well employed, well mannered, well read, etc. He’s also prone to bouts of mild to moderate depression (not looking for therapy recommendations yet). The life events tend to trigger depressive bouts, so I can never rely on genius to kick in when it’s needed. I don’t think he’s completely abnormal. My family is filled with similar personalities, although I mostly know a lot of people who talk about doing things and never actually do them which is basically what I think husband would be without my kicking us along.

   1. Accept that you will be leading the charge, and have meetings to discuss things where you really need his input to get him to sign off on things, and make as many minor decisions as possible solo.

   2. My husband is kind of like this, though left to his own devices he will eventually get things done. However, I am definitely the planner. We always joke that he just has to show up ready to get dirty for all of my projects and he will execute any plan I have made. It is a division of labor that works for us though. (This reminds me of the dinner discussion a few weeks ago. I do all the meal planning, but he will shop and cook what I have planned. Left to his own, he would probably order pizza. Which is fine, just not what I want all the time.)

   3. What kinds of projects? Are these essential projects, like necessary for life and health? Or are they things that you want to do that your husband is just not as motivated about? I think generally you’ll be better off accepting that your husband is like this, rather than getting him to change. Ten years is a long time of him showing you who he is.

      1. Yep. See Rule 6: People are not improvement projects.

         See also, 3 types of undesirable characteristics: 1. dealbreakers, 2. annoying but price of admission to the relationship, 3. things that are super annoying and that you can get them to change if you just explain well enough or yell loud enough or nag long enough. Spoiler: There is no number 3.

         1. To your point, I have generally accepted these features about him (price of admission). However, I feel like I’m missing some kind of tricks to help us both accomplish large tasks that we, in theory, both would like to do.

      2. Things that come to mind are:
         Taking the GREs (we graduated from college together; I had studied for literally years and had taken it 3 times before he casually joined me for that test last minute and, unsurprisingly, got 200 more points than I) – no planning whatsoever, no studying and I think his Mom scheduled his test because I was already going and it was “convenient”. OTOH he didn’t end up applying to grad schools anyway, so perhaps this was never his plan.
         Moving states 3 times. Each time I did the huge majority of the work, including everything associated with selling a home (oh, and buying to begin with). There was a memorable moment where I had scheduled to put in new carpets the next morning (clearly not something that can be moved, already made a huge deposit) and hubs still had not packed his stuff by 10PM that evening. His cousin who was just hanging out because it was our few days in the state ended up putting in an all-nighter to just help him throw everything into boxes and off the carpeted areas by 6am. My stuff had been packed and in the garage for days. I was so exhausted from painting all day (we had a very aggressive timeline because he’d quit his job and I needed the house to sell pronto), I ended up staying at a friend’s house since it was clearly going to be a lively night.
         Having a baby. I had done literally all of the research, shopping, food prep, daycare tours, and then finding daycare two more times which is insanely difficult in our HCOL area. I asked him to read one birth book and he mockingly read 3 pages out loud (to be fair, the book was terrible but he never bothered to find another). He went to hospital classes with me but I did all the scheduling and planning. He really wanted to be a dad and is a great one with regard to interaction and spending time with kid but he doesn’t: schedule any appointments unless pushed and prompted and reminded; take her to any appointments unless specifically requested, or do any of the other un-fun things unless requested and pushed and prompted, like: cut nails, bathe, buy new shoes, get rid of outgrown clothes, sort her laundry, find play dates, etc. He is entirely capable of taking care of kid while I travel for work and they are great buddies. I don’t know how long it would take before kid got a bath. She would probably remind him…

         This time around, we are thinking of moving again, to a M/LCOL area. I am just sick of the anxiety that our ever-increasing cost of living is producing. I feel like I have to work harder and harder but everything around keeps deteriorating. However, I am coming to a realization that while in theory husband is in complete agreement, I might be doing all of this on my own. I was hoping you wise ladies have tips on how to make this go better for myself.

         1. I posted below, but your husband sounds a LOT like mine. Your stories (moving, not preparing for the birth of a child, not handling any logistics) are weirdly similar to mine.

            So… to make things better for yourself, accept that your husband is who he is. You may have to lead the charge. But also make sure that he is in complete agreement, and not just in theory. And even if he’s in agreement to “move to a M/LCOL area,” he may need more time than you to figure out where that would be, or what kind of job he’d want there, or which house to buy. For me and my husband, it often works for him to handle the research, crunching numbers, making phone calls, and for me to handle logistics when he really is on board.

            If DH has to deal with logistics, and it’s at all time sensitive, I need to find another plan. I promise, the man has other strengths. But he’ll never pack a box. (When I was 6 months pregnant, and we were remodeling part of our house, a male coworker/friend came over one Saturday to help me move boxes and furniture to the garage because DH never did it and the contractor was coming on Monday. I had packed all the boxes.)

         2. Hire it out. All of it or as much as humanly possible.

            For reals. Think of it as the last payment on your higher-COL lifestyle.

   4. 1) Clearly delegate what is HIS job, with deadlines. I always assign my husband things like calling people and getting information and setting up appointments because that takes me a lot of time and energy.
      2) Praise everything he does.
      3) Use weekend/together time to run errands and otherwise do your parts of the project and solicit opinions info from him — don’t feel like it has to be done on “your” time.

      1. Thanks, this is the sort of advice I am looking for!

   5. Not quite to the point, but my husband and I recently downloaded Wunderlist (could be any similar list-sharing app), and have finally been sharing our to-dos. This has done wonders to reduce my emotional load.

   6. My husband and I are a little bit like this. But I’ll add one type of “undesirable characteristic” to Senior Attorney’s: (4) annoying but actually complementary of a Type A personality.

      Since I’m Type A, I want to make a decision and charge ahead. (Any decision is better than doing nothing, right?) DH will want to think everything through, and what seems like procrastination is often processing. When it comes to projects, I often feel like I’m pulling him along, and DH often feels like I’m trying to control everything. Like your spouse, sometimes DH has a moment of brilliance, and sometimes he doesn’t. But often, his foot-dragging gives us both time to do more research or run the numbers again or even let our excitement for the project wear off.

      If your husband, like mine, needs more time to process and make a decision, find a way to make that a positive. Let him research or create a spreadsheet or talk things through with you or other people. Meanwhile, you may have to go at his pace a little bit. Remember that Type A is not superior to Type B. (I have a hard time remembering this when I’m feeling impatient.)

      Admittedly, this does not work with all life events. It’s much more conducive to projects (remodeling a kitchen or planning a vacation or buying a house) than to yes/no decisions like whether to have kids or whether to interview for a particular job.

   7. – Choose your battles
      – slow down your timeline. Take on what absolutely needs to be done now, leave the rest to fall out as it may.
      – continue asking/telling/reminding about non-fun appointments/scheduling/etc
      -Be okay with things not being perfect. So long as the end result is good, the path isn’t so important (except for when it is – but that’s a choose your battle thing)
      -recognize when he does things for you unprompted, or when he makes you feel special. Making these deposits in your relationship bank account is important for both of you.
      – Would he be good at these high level administrative type tasks (home buying/selling, planning, resource gathering, organizing)? Because if not, you will be disappointed/frustrated with the result if he takes them on.
      – Set out clear tasks – Do this by x day, that by z week, and next summer dadada needs to happen. Remind him of the due dates, but let him get it done the way he wants to. Live with the results.
      – Put him “in charge” of certain duties. They only get done if he does them. Live with the results.
      – If the kiddo doesn’t bathe on your schedule while you are gone, it’s not so bad (unless her health suffers, of course!). If she reminds him she needs a bath, she gets practice asking for what she wants. And her asking him may be the kick in teh pants he needs to remember – oh, this should happen more often. No telling, but maybe.
      – Thank him for taking care of the things he does take care of.
      – 2nd the running errands together on weekends thing.
      – It could take some time and trial and error to get to the place where you both are comfortable. Let the time pass, and try new things. Ask his opinion – what would help him get x/y done?

      Personal anecdote: I cook, DH does dishes. Dishes pile up more often than not. It got under my skin sometimes, cause it can get gross, but if I need a certain dirty dish I ask for him to clean it, and he will take care of it. A couple times a week he does all the dishes, and that’s that. I rarely have to ask him to clean the kitchen, he does it on his schedule, and I rarely wash a dish myself. But I seriously had to let go of when the dishes get done. It was frustrating at first, but now it doesn’t bother me.

      Another: DH is terrible at filling out forms. Terrible at it. It annoyed me that I had to do all the paperwork, but then he missed filling out something that ended up with us owing a bunch of money. Guess what – it’s better if I fill out the forms. They get done right the first time.

      Last one: DH is really proud of me. He loves that I am smart and strong-willed, and we laugh a lot at and with each other. He’s supported me through hard times, and been there while I struggled with some big stuff. Letting go of my frustration with the way he does things lets me appreciate all the awesome ways he supports me. Yeah, I have to take on certain tasks, and others don’t get done the way I would do them. But, they get done, and we learned to cooperate. Or they don’t get done, and we deal with the consequences.

   8. Somewhat in the vein of what you’re looking for, I used to get really frustrated with my DH because I’d do all this work and I’d get frustrated that he wouldn’t do everything like I was doing, or make arrangements to help reach the goal. Our pre-marital counselor told me that I’m much better at thinking down the line than he is (i.e., if we decide we need to paint the living room, I’m already thinking 10 steps ahead, like, what brand of paint will we choose? What colors? And then I get annoyed he’s not already researching matte vs. satin finishing).

      I do a couple things– I do what I do well (mostly planning and researching) and then I have him execute. So I research all the paint swatches online for hours, and I give him the list and he goes to the store and picks it up. And then I decide what colors look best, and I pick the painting company and he is there working from home the days the painters are there. And that’s fair to me and I feel like he’s contributing because he executes, I plan. And I don’t really want to go to the paint store. Or be there when the painters are there, so.

      We also do 100% division of labor for certain tasks. I don’t do laundry now that I’m been married. He doesn’t do laundry on my schedule at all (he likes to stay up until 2am watching movies and flipping and folding on random nights). But that’s fine because it’s his chore, and he can do it at a time I’d never imagine doing laundry and I always have clean clothes. So he works it in the way that he prefers.

      I do 100% of the cooking/grocery shopping/meal planning. I do it in the way that works for me. And since we’re focused and out of each other’s way, it goes very well. (He also has other smaller chores and I do too, but the balance we’ve struck is really fair and works for us).

9. Ugh. I am hating my job, manager, and client and will be job searching and just ugh.

   1. hugssss

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