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expecting
Hi, looking for some advice. We are expecting a baby and planned to announce at Thanksgiving. My older cousin (who I did not think would be in town) is now coming. I know she has been trying for a year or two and had one miscarriage this summer. She is 36 so I think they are a little nervous about having kids, although they haven’t talked a lot about this with me. We had a bit of an elaborate announcement planned that I want to abandon. I told my husband I thought it would be better to tell my parents the night before (using the same elaborate announcement) and then more casually tell people at thanksgiving rather than making it such a thing. My husband thinks we should stick with our plan because it is our joy and my cousin will be happy for us, and any discomfort she may feel she will feel regardless of how we tell her. Thoughts?
Anon
I have not been in this position myself, but a couple close friends have, tell her beforehand so she can process her feelings. Even if you chose to tell people more casually the day of, finding out around lots of family that day may bring up strong emotions for her that she would have preferred to process alone. My guess is she’ll be happy for you and would support your elaborate announcement if she can be prepared for it.
AnonZ
+1 to giving her a heads up beforehand. Whether the announcement is elaborate or casual, if she has emotions to process, it will be much easier for her to do that outside of a large family event.
Betty
100% agree with this approach. When we were struggling with infertility, I appreciated this kind of heads up so that I could process before being around a group of people. I would also suggest letting her know via email/text rather than a phone call or in person. The email/text will let her process in her own way without having to keep up appearances in a phone call or in front of you. You can also ask if she would be ok with a big announcement at Thanksgiving. When I was in her shoes, I would have given an enthusiastic “yes!!” but would have prepped/cried in private beforehand. If you have ever seen the movie Julie & Julia, there is a scene where Julia Child finds out her sister is pregnant. She holds the letter and says, “I’m just so happy” as she sobs into her husband’s shoulder. That’s pretty spot on in my experience. Let her have that moment in private so that she can support you publicly.
nutella
Tangent, but I just watched Julie & Julia for the first time this week on N3tflix and was so touched by that exact scene, I re-watched it. It was so tender and felt like an honest experience between a couple on a sensitive topic that he knew exactly how to comfort her on *this* issue. One of those moments where it was obvious why she was Oscar-nominated for the role! (And I thought he should have for just that moment, too!)
Anonymous
That scene killed me in Julie and Julia.
Worry about yourself
I agree with giving her a heads-up, and I also think you could tell her about the when/where of the announcement ahead of time and give her a chance to sneak away if she doesn’t want to be present and expected to celebrate along with everyone else.
Infertile Myrtle
+1 million
I will never, never forgive my good friend who knew what I was going through and still did an “elaborate announcement” to our group of friends without any forewarning to me or DH. It was selfish and relationship changing.
Anon
I understand being a little peeved in your situation but you hold a disproportional amount of resentment over someone else’s big moment in life. You’re not a member of your friend’s family and their childbearing has nothing to do with you. It’s understandable that you’re hurt, but to let a whole friendship change and call someone selfish for celebrating a joyous moment is incredibly selfish (narcissistic some might say). For your own mental health, you need to put it behind you. If I found out a friend of mine was so negative and jealous of one of the most happy moments of my life I’d drop her like a bag of hot rocks because she is not a friend if she doesn’t want the best for you.
Good luck in your fertility journey but you need therapy to process your emotions better because the world isn’t going to stop, and your friends won’t stop having kids, just because you don’t have a child yet.
Anonymous
She doesn’t want the world to stop turning. She just doesn’t want to be friends with people who are super self-centered and insensitive to the pain of others.
I’d totally ditch a friend who did an elaborate baby announcement in front of a friend who had a recent loss with no forewarning. It’s super insensitive.
Anon
Yeah but that is a different situation. A recent miscarriage is very different than what Infertile Myrtle said, which is just that she’s mad at the world because she’s not pregnant. She’s not grieving or suffering a loss, just insufferable.
anon
Found Myrtle’s former friend! You’re being rude for no reason and you know it. Knock it off. (“She’s not grieving or suffering a loss, just insufferable.”)
Sounds to me like forewarning from the friend would have made a big difference.
Anonymous
As some who suffered multiple miscarriages and a stillbirth – I don’t think you need to experience a loss of a pregnancy to feel grief over infertility. Because of my history of losses, many women feel ok opening up to me about the fertility issues. And many women feel a profound sense of grief and loss about not being able to get pregnant. I personally don’t feel like I get to grieve more because I was able to get pregnant, where a woman who cannot get pregnant is not allowed to grieve because society doesn’t understand that she has lost something too.
Appreciating advanced notice of a public announcement of something that could possibly cause you some pain does not make you insufferable. However, dismissing someone else’s pain because you do not understand it does make you insufferable.
Anon
+1
Anon at 10:47am
I am not mad she got pregnant. I am mad that she subjected me to an “elaborate announcement”. I, and my fellow reasonable-minded, infertile soldiers, do not expect the world to stop procreating because of my bad luck. What I do expect is for my friends – my in-my-wedding, bff friends and circle-of-trust family – to not tell me about their procreation in the most flashy, glitter-covered, take-a-picture-for-insta, look-at-me-look-at-me way. I don’t know why that’s so hard for people to understand.
And, at 33 years old, I actually had many friends get pregnant during my 27 months of infertility hell (I have a 6 month old now, fwiw). Hell, BOTH of my sisters got pregnant and birthed their first children during that 27 months. I was sad. I cried. But, I was able to compartmentalize and realize that the origin of their happiness was not the same origin of my sadness. But, if you knew about what I was going through and you still thought it was appropriate to do an “elaborate announcement” and expect me to clap and smile and be nothing but a picture perfect back drop for your memory of telling people you’re pregnant… ya, your status in my life is changed. Sorry I’m not sorry.
Infertile Myrtle
^ This is Infertile Myrtle. Not sure why Anon at 10:47 showed up…
Pretty Primadonna
A heads up to you would have been a sensitive thing to do. But, you sound like a hater.
Are you mad at the elaborate announcement in general or because your circumstances made it particularly painful for you? Because honestly, it sounds like the former and you are judging your ex-friend for having the audacity to announce her pregnancy in this way. I think you are selfish for wanting her to temper her excitement over her pregnancy just so you could feel better about your own situation.
You are saying she “subjected you” to it. She probably thought she was “celebrating the good news” and “sharing in a great moment” with you. You probably would complain about a friend having an “over the top” milestone birthday party, too.
anonymous
Okay, as a woman who does not want kids, I’ll say it: what kind of full on narcissistic puts on an elaborate pregnancy announcement for their friends. Seriously. Be excited about your pregnancy all you want, but this is a big deal for you and your life. Not your friends’ lives. Your friends will celebrate with you by talking to you about your pregnancy, listening to you talk about it, throwing you a baby shower, doing a meal train, commenting on your insta posts. But why do an elaborate announcement, which implies that it’s an important event or critical information in their lives, too? That’s what’s narcissistic. It’s different for family- people are becoming aunts, grandparents, uncles, brothers, sisters…there’s a new member of the family unit and that’s a personally exciting thing for each family member. Not the same with friends’ kids.
And no, it’s not selfish for to expect your friends to show a little courtesy for your feelings. Seems like all Myrtle wanted was a heads up. That does not require “tempering” your excitement.
Anonymous
I’m guessing you did this to a friend (or former friend) or you wouldn’t be so defensive and you’d see how insensitive you are to people in Myrtle’s circumstances
Anonymous
For whatever it’s worth, I agree with you. But I’m generally not a fan of look-at-me-look-at-me theatrics in any form, so to do so at the expense of a good friend’s comfort is just extra distasteful. I guess an equivalent would be like, if I had a good friend in the middle of a traumatic divorce, I’d still invite them to my wedding, but I wouldn’t spring a ‘surprise bridal shower’ on them with no warning. The former would be including them in my happy life event in a normal and socially sanctioned manner, the latter is rubbing salt in an open wound for purely narcissistic reasons.
Anonymous
No no. What is childish is making a big huge dramatic announcement
Anonymous
I’m completely cool with not wanting to have friends who are overly invested in leading shallow and materialistic instaworthy lives. But I’m really not cool with taking this so personally. As someone who has struggled with infertility, I understand why someone would feel this is worth celebrating. Maybe if the celebration itself felt shallow that would bother me, but I really don’t want anyone to temper their joy or its expression on my account. I feel like I personally could be more open about the difficulty of infertility if people weren’t so worked up about the infertility divas in their life.
Pompom
“You’re not a member of your friend’s family and their childbearing has nothing to do with you.”
Then stop making elaborate announcements for happy but entirely ordinary things to people who are not your family. When you make elaborate announcements, then you are making it about other people, and you own the consequences.
In sincerity: OP, I’m really sorry that I earlier did not pause before my earlier post and say congratulations. Congratulations on your growing family! You asked a great question, and there’s… a lot here to read, most of which likely doesn’t directly relate to your situation. Thanks for being the conversation starter even when you likely didn’t mean to be!
anon
Yes, this. Assuming you know your family and aren’t being total narcissists with your elaborate announcement (#assumegoodintentions), announcements of major life events like this (especially pregnancy) are great examples of things that are not wrong to do but may still hurt someone else. Your best option is to do it with compassion so that it mitigates hurt to the extent possible. When I’m in your cousin’s position, I also feel guilty that I can’t be purely happy for someone in addition to feeling sad, like I’m being a bad friend or family member by letting my issues get in the way of being supportive or enthusiastic. Advanced notice gives her time to process so she can be (or at least pretend to be) “appropriately” happy.
Anonymous
I agree with you. Do the elaborate announcement with your parents. They are the people who will care most.
I have a sister and a cousin who both had fertility challenges and they would find an elaborate announcement in the middle of Thanksgiving to be hard to deal with even though they would be very happy for us.
Anonymous
This. And honestly, no one wants an elaborate announcement even if heynafent trying to have kids. Not sure what you have planned, but those can come off as supremely narcissistic.
Anonymous
For sure. Nobody cares that much. Super narcissistic.
anon
+2. I find these types of announcements super obnoxious.
Anonymous
I’m having trouble even imagining what an ‘elaborate announcement’ could be or why anyone would want one. What is there to do beyond saying, “We have some important news!” and then telling everyone?
anon
Also, my parents would probably have been a bit irked if they found out I was pregnant along with the whole extended family. That’s another reason to do your announcement with them first. It doesn’t mean that my mom and her sisters didn’t all huddle together and cry happy tears when I made the full family announcement (that is, said, hey, want to let you all know I’m pregnant!) at a family gathering.
Cb
I’d do the elaborate announcement with your parents and do a casual announcement at Thanksgiving. Or send a heads up message beforehand. While I’m sure she’ll be so happy for you, she might also be sad for herself. I think it is kinder to give her time to compose herself.
Anonymous
I think that the head’s up message beforehand is thoughtful. Whatever your cousin is going through, she mentally doesn’t have reacting publicly to a pregnancy at a time where she’s had a recent loss (coupled with uncertainty).
I had a dear friend miscarry and then I had a miscarriage. Then I got pregnant again and it was so hard to talk about being pregnant again b/c I knew she wanted to have a child so desperately and I didn’t want to catch her unaware with what can bring up strong emotions. I guess it is sort of like how people are very sensitive about things that may be “triggering” — I think that can definitely qualify as a triggering topic.
At any rate, for someone who had had a loss (or is struggling to conceive), it’s always good for them to know that their friends love them and are thinking about them and their struggles even during our period of joy. The friends and families with struggles aren’t alone, need to know that, and need to know that your joy has not lessened your concern for others.
Anon
Don’t make someone struggling with infertility sit through an elaborate announcement during holiday dinner.
Yeah, she would probably be “fine” with it – that would be her official story.
The Cousin
+1. I had a miscarriage last month. I’m already dreading sitting through Thanksgiving with a bunch of nosy aunts and uncles (who don’t know/shouldn’t have to be told) asking me when I’m going to get pregnant. An “elaborate” announcement from another cousin would make things 100 times worse, but I certainly couldn’t tell her that I’m not comfortable with it.
Anonymous
What kind of Thanksgiving gathering is it — your parents, your siblings, and this one cousin…or is it a much broader group of extended family? If it’s just your close family members, I’d give your cousin a heads-up ahead of time. If it’s broader family, I don’t think I’d use Thanksgiving for an elaborate personal celebration (unless your extended family regularly focuses on one person in those kinds of ways at big family events). I’d keep the elaborate stuff for your immediate family.
Anonymous
I mean this nicely, but nobody cares about your “elaborate” announcement except maybe your parents. Please don’t hijack Thanksgiving.
Anonymous
Wow you sound lovely. Why are you spending Thanksgiving with people you don’t care enough about to be overjoyed with their announcement they’re expecting a baby?
Anonymous
Lol wut. Nobody is “overjoyed” about your pregnancy except you and DH and maaaaybe the grandparents if it’s the first grandchild. Literally no one else cares beyond a simple “I’m happy for you,” I promise. I have kids.
Anon
Umm, I don’t know what kind of friends or family you have, but if they’re not overjoyed by your good news, I’m so sorry for you.
Anonymous
I have wonderful friends and family, thanks. They’re happy for me when good things happen to me, but they’re no more overjoyed about a baby than they are about a new relationship, a newly purchased house, a promotion, an achievement like paying off debt, etc. A baby is definitely happy news that deserves to be celebrated, but it’s not the be all/end all event in someone’s life unless they’re the parent or maybe the grandparent or aunt/uncle. And expecting your friends to fall to their knees “overjoyed” about it is insanely narcissistic.
Anon
I am getting married in a few months. People are very happy for me, but my wedding isn’t the centre of their lives.
Likewise….
Anonymous
I’m with 9:25am. YOu can tell them, and of course they’re likely to be overjoyed, but a lot of people are anti-elaborate events for something like that 70% of the population does. Doesn’t make them grinches.
Cat
No one said the OP’s family wouldn’t care or be happy about the baby news … but the words “elaborate announcement” gave me a case of the eyerolls too.
Pompom
But, see, Thanksgiving belongs to everyone. OP should be able to announce their news that day, yeah, but it shouldn’t eclipse everyone else’s news, fun, or gratefulness (or sorrows, may that be the case). Elaborate announcements have a way of doing that–being the center of attention–and maybe this is not the right place or time? And by the way, I can love someone *immensely* and not be “overjoyed with their announcement they’re expecting a baby.” It’s a nice thing, yes! But don’t question my love for people based on that, thanks.
Anonymous
This.
Anonymous
there is a difference between an announcement and an “elaborate” announcement.
Anonymous
Ha! I can’t wait until the prom-posal crowd starts to marry off and have babies.
Anon
+1
Anonymous
I don’t think that Thanksgiving is hijackable — it’s like a rugby scrum feeding frenzy followed by football followed by the most awesome meal ever (which is the meal after Thanksgiving, where you can be really unballanced and just eat 5 deviled eggs if that is what you really love, followed by sweet potato casserole and green bean casserold). You may get some eye-roll across the generations (like if your nephew Ken wants to inflict a tuba recital on everyone and he’s been playing since school started this fall) and at worst you will become a Family Story that is Repeated (or a meme).
givemyregards
I totally agree. Plus, I’m the biggest grinch ever and have never been described as cutesy, whimsical, nostalgic, etc. etc. but if people want to do some elaborate, maybe cheesy, thing related to having a baby, getting married, etc. etc. then I say go for it! It’s one hour of my life – if it makes you happy, that makes me happy. For this particular scenario, yes, be sensitive to your cousin’s situation, but in general, let people have their fun? Even if you think it’s dumb?
Anonymous
+1 same here
Pretty Primadonna
Ditto. Gah! Let people celebrate!
Anonymous
Yeah this! I have children and dear nieces and nephews I adore. I do not care one bit about elaborate announcements and would have rolled my eyes at anyone who did this, even a BFF or sibling. Just please tell people you’re pregnant and don’t be cutesy about it.
Anonymous
Not everyone shares your taste though. Let’s trust that OP has the judgment to know how this would be received in her particular family.
Anonymous
Well obviously she doesn’t because she asked us to weigh in.
Anonymous
Similar to Know Your Office, this is a Know Your Family situation. My family would have liked a big announcement even on a holiday. I know them very well and we are all very, very close– they genuinely would have been thrilled with this. Unfortunately for them, I do not like this sort of thing so I disappointed them by telling them very low key (they were also super disappointed by no gender reveal celebration…)
OP– I trust you know you’re family and whether they would like your elaborate announcement. You do you.
Anonymous
Okay, I’ll bite here. Families are not one big unit that thinks alike. In my family, I am non-traditional (not married, no kids, and perfectly happy with my decisions). Because of this, I am never celebrated, at all. Maybe a big birthday here and there, but the excitement over my life choices isn’t there. Which is fine. But it starts to feel bad when things like holidays turn into yet another celebration for the family members doing traditional things. I don’t begrudge them this, but I can feel left out. I know I could choose a different life and get all the celebrations, too, but that’s not really a solution for me. So this “elaborate announcement” stuff grates on me, the single person, probably the cousin who’s trying to have a family, and others too (a lot of times we are unaware of the struggles and decisions that older family members have made themselves). To the OP, you will get your big party – I’m sure you’ll have a shower(s), maybe a s3x reveal party, etc. You will have first birthdays and second ones and other milestones to celebrate with your kids. You will have many moments in the sun. Perhaps just don’t take over things that are to be shared in a big all about you kind of way. Share your joy, share your news, but skip the elaborate stuff. It’s just too much for many people for many reasons.
Anonymous
Again– you’re projecting your experience on OP’s family. You don’t know them. You don’t know if anyone feels this way. OP is in the best place to judge this. Let her.
Anonymous
… OP did? She wanted to forego the Thanksgiving idea. Her husband is pushing back. She’s asking for backup. The person you’re responding to is giving OP support for her position.
Anon
But you’re assuming that her family has a group mind and all agrees. That is almost assuredly not the case.
In my family, there are some people who would love a big announcement, some that would think it’s stupid, and some that would be hurt by it (including me). I would be happy for my family member, but, as a not-by-choice single mid-30s person who wants all those things and really worries/thinks I will never get them, I don’t need an ever bigger reminder on Thanksgiving that I don’t have the things I want in life. Most of my family wouldn’t guess that, because I don’t share those feeling with them, and I would not be surprised to learn that my cousins think I would find a big announcement fun. But in truth, it would just be another reminder of what I’m missing on a day that is supposed to be about spending time with family.
Suburban
So :
1. Congratulations and best wishes!
2. Please don’t do anything elaborate.
3. Gently, please consider why you feel the need for something elaborate. It probably has something to do with your relationship with your parents/your family/your expectations about parenthood. Having a child is going to shift all of these things and it’s best to get to a realistic place before the baby comes. If, by chance, you’re craving positive attention because pregnancy has been tough and/or scary I highly recommend indulgent self care and connection with your partner over elaborate public stunts.
Anonymous
Ding ding ding.
Anonattorney
Celebrating a pregnancy with family members–even in an “elaborate” way–does not mean a person is inappropriately craving positive attention. This is COMPLETELY a know your family situation. All families are different. My family lives for this stuff, and absolutely embraces exciting announcements of big life milestones.
Suburban
I never used the word inappropriate. I also used both “if” and “by chance” when speculating about op’s feelings around positive attention. Regardless of your family’s particular behavior, I think its worth examining why she and her partner feel the urge to make an elaborate announcement. Were you to do the same, perhaps the answer might be that elaborate announcements are traditional and consistently well received in your family. But, to your “know one’s family” point, this may not be the case for everyone.
Regardless, I cannot see why you would object to the suggestion that she take a moment to reflect.
Anonattorney
Totally fair response, and I apologize for misconstruing your post. Overall, I guess I just disagree with the general reaction to avoid any big announcement. I wonder if it is just the uncertainty about what constitutes an “elaborate” announcement. I bet we all agree that there’s a point where a pregnancy announcement is too much.
Anonymous
I’m the one struggling with infertility in my family, and I have a really hard time with the idea that my feelings should hold anyone else hostage. Also, if you can’t break into tears among family, where can you?
But because not everyone feels the way I do, I guess the best advice you’ve received is to let the news make its way to your cousin in advance (if you can do so in a way that doesn’t single her out or project any expectation that this will crush her). I can’t tell what you mean by an elaborate announcement, but I prefer the idea of keeping that to immediate family vs. doing anything elaborate in the presence of aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. in the first place.
Suburban
If I broke into tears in front of my family at the announcement of someone else’s pregnancy it would become the stuff of family legend. Literally one of them would comfort me, my mother would try to kick me out for being selfish and making a scene, and the person who made the announcement would probably also cry and dis-inivite to all baby related events, etc. Yes, they are a particular brand of crazy and I didn’t pick them, but there may be real consequences to a person not reacting well to this.
Batgirl
I struggled with fertility for years (to the tune of one miscarriage and 10 rounds of IVF!) and also had to experience close family announcing they were pregnant while I was struggling. Personally, I was mostly happy for everyone and tried to handle my own emotions as being about me, not them. Yes, it would sting. Not because I wasn’t happy for them, but because I was sad for me. For me, I didn’t care how they announced it as along as there was SOME acknowledgment, privately or even just a look, that they were aware of what I was going through, too.
All that said, everyone deserves to experience the joy of their own pregnancies and to tell their loved ones in the way they choose. I think an elaborate announcement is fine (and frankly, I wish we’d felt comfortable enough doing that but we were so afraid of miscarriage that we didn’t get to do that) but I would definitely let your cousin know ahead of time and would consider moving the elaborate announcement to the night before or when she’s not there. No, you don’t have to, but I think it would be a nice compromise. I don’t agree with others that people will roll their eyes at you…or rather, maybe they will, but who cares? The first thing you’ll learn as parents is that everyone has an opinion and you have to do what’s right for you and your family. Just maybe avoid needlessly rubbing your cousin’s face in it (which I know you’re not planning to do!). And congrats! :)
Anonymous
Honestly I think it depends on what the elaborate thing is. If you’re going to do something that involves shooting something or explosives or dressing the turkey up in baby clothes, maybe don’t do that. If your idea of elaborate involves making a fancy dessert or other type of food, by all means, please do it. I am pro any edible elaborate announcement. Even if it’s something wacky like serving a meal consisting of baby vegetables a la Full House. I can’t envision a food related announcement that isn’t fun and lighthearted and delicious.
Anon
Following. Not sure I have advice here but I anticipate potentially being in the same position soon. My SIL, whom I am close with, has had years of trouble conceiving and she has made “jokes” that I better not get pregnant before her. These jokes have felt less like jokes as time has passed and now I find myself TTC as the youngest of five kids, none of whom have had any children themselves (the other siblings don’t want kids). Given this context, I know it will be a huge deal to my parents when I get pregnant. An elaborate announcment is not my style but she has been very dramatic in the past with things far less sensitive than this so I have a feeling that she will ruin any announcement at all. OP, I’d love to hear how this ends up turning out for you.
Anonymous
How will she ruin this? Tell your parents along. Call your siblings.
anon
Interesting, OP seems to be looking for ways to act with empathy and compassion, but you…. do not. Not sure you’re going to get lots of helpful advice. Hope your sister doesn’t ruin your precious day.
Anon
She has ruined things to the point of throwing a major tantrum and nearly getting arrested, so I think I’m justified to be concerned. Move along if you have nothing to contribute.
Anonymous
You sound incredibly bitter
anon
Do I? Not sure why… I’m just highlighting the contrast between OP’s admirable consideration of her family member’s feelings and that poster’s obvious disdain for her sister and desire to protect her special announcement. I don’t have or want kids. Don’t care who gets pregnant. I don’t really have a dog in this fight. I, like many posters above, am just offering another opinion.
Anonymous
I think the bigger issue is your husband is not trusting your instincts about your own family and that he’s pressuring you to do something that you think is unkind. You know your cousin best. You clearly think it the right thing to do is to nix the elaborate Thanksgiving announcement in favor of a more casual announcement*. Your husband should defer to you on that, not try to argue with you about it. Does he usually act like this when he doesn’t get his way?
And btw: a baby announcement is always A Big Deal! You’re not taking away from the announcement by just… telling people. I’m not sure why your husband seems to feel like he’s missing out on some great thing by not being able to communicate the news in his preferred manner? And why he thinks those feelings trump your cousin’s?
Anon
I was thinking this too and wondering if you could do the elaborate announcement with his family instead
Anonymous
Good idea. Like why is he so invested in making an elaborate announcement to OP’s family, even if it means trampling all over OP’s cousin’s feelings – which OP seems to think it will? I mean maybe his family will be at Thanksgiving too and he wants to tell everyone together? Which I can understand but still. Get the parents together the night before, do your elaborate thing then.
cbackson
In this situation, where your instinct is that this may hurt your cousin, why not err on the side of the option that reduces that risk? None of us know your family, but you do and it seems clearly to me that your feeling is that big announcement in front of the entire family isn’t a great option given these circumstances. Follow your heart on this one.
Anonymous
+1 to this. Catching up late, as another person who has suffered multiple miscarriages and a stillbirth to implore you to ax the elaborate announcement. I’m going to go a step further, though. Unless you are showing and it is super obvious that you are pregnant, wait until after Thanksgiving to tell her. Let her get through the holiday and give her space to process in her own time.
Anonymous
I think commandeering a family occasion to make some big elaborate announcement is rude. Tell people, absolutely, but some big Thing? No.
Bitterly TTC
First of all, congratulations! This is so exciting for you, your family, and your cousin, regardless of how else the news may impact her/them.
It’s late, and you’ve received a lot of advice on all sides. I read all the strong reactions on all sides as a reflection of just how emotional and complex this issue is.
For what it’s worth, if I were your cousin, experiencing an elaborate announcement, especially without warning, would ruin my Thanksgiving. I’m not proud of this reaction (quite the opposite), but I’ve been TTC for a long time, and the inability to conceive has brought up a set of emotions I never expected in a way that nothing else ever has. For me, this process has been hard and sad and frustrating in a way that is different from other arguably harder/sadder things (death of parents/friends) because it is something that should be in my control but is not. I cannot even imagine how a miscarriage after having tried so long would add to this pain.
I’m ashamed of how jealous and upset I am by others’ happy news, and writing this out, I know it sounds like I’m a terrible person. And of course this reaction is coupled by love and happiness and excitement for them, but no matter how hard I try, I cannot experience the joy purely, and the bitterness often trumps it. I’ve experienced finding out a dear friend was pg at a big event, and it ruined the night for me, no matter how happy I am for her. I had a SIL get pg on the first try and give birth in the time I’ve been TTC, and my sister is now planning to start trying, and I just brace myself for hearing she is pg because I honestly don’t know how I will handle that pain if it happens before me. Again, I hate hate hate these negative emotions, but they are out of my control, and I don’t think I’m unique. Also, to the point above that if you can’t cry with family who can you cry with, different people and families have different levels of comfort with sharing their journey/pain with their family publicly, especially when that sharing is due to something outside your control (if I were your cousin and this was sprung on me, I would burst into tears and also not want to talk about it, and that would really suck).
All that’s to say, you deserve to be happy and you shouldn’t hold back on sharing your joyful news with your family – that’s what Thanksgiving is about! But it sounds like you know this will have a significant negative impact on your cousin’s day, so I would just add to the suggestions above to consider amending your plans and/or giving her a heads up. Good luck!
Leah
Can anyone recommend boot socks that stay put? Hosiery/tights stay up, but they don’t have enough padding and give me blisters with boots. Socks fall down and bunch around my ankles, leaving my bare calves to stick to the inside of the boots.
Vicky Austin
My old standbys are knee socks from H&M. Wearing them today in fact.
Lilly
Pricey, but Bombas knee highs have a padded footbed and don’t sag or roll at the top.
Anonymous
Darn tough are just the best.
Mama Llama
I just wear ankle length socks over my tights.
Anonymous
+1 socks over tights for the win!
Anonymous
Yes I always wear little socks over tights. Protects the sole of your tights too.
PolyD
Costco has really nice wool blend (but mostly wool) socks that have a bit of cushioning/compression (although honestly, consider inserts if you need more cushioning) and they stay up. They’re not knee-highs, but they are higher than ankle (maybe mid-calf). They are the only socks I buy any more. I also do socks over tights, as others here have said.
Mary Ann Singleton
I live in those Costco socks 9 months out of the year. They hold up super well too.
Anony!
What’s the brand of the socks at Costco? Is it their house-brand….Kirkland? TIA!!
Anon
I came to say Costco socks, too, but they do NOT hold up well. A pack of them typically lasts only a season for me and then they all get holes in them.
R
Compression socks from Sockwell are good if you need those!
Anon
Anyone have recommendations for shoes, warmer than flats, that I can wear with straight leg pants? I feel like booties look funny because the top of the pant hangs over the top of the bootie awkwardly but flats are too cold for the upcoming winter temps! I can do warm boots to the office, but find heels and flats still too chilly in the office.
Miss
I have the same issue and have found a few boots that are higher than most booties but not knee high or even mid shin. It’s just a few inches above the ankle but it’s enough to cover the weird zone where the bottom of straight pants get caught on the top of your boots.
Anonymous
+1. Ankle boots.
Amy H.
So do you have the pant legs go outside the top of the ankle boots?
Anonymous
I’ve been wanting to ask this question since last month, when driving through my first snow storm of the year. Ankle pants and flats/heels/loafers just plain don’t work in cold and snowy climates. I live in cold and snow for roughly half the year. Moving is not an option when you care for elderly parents.
Dressing for winter looks very different in cold and snow. I’ve been wearing fleece tights and booties for a month now, and I’m already very bored with the look. Genuinely interested in alternatives to ankle pants and booties. They just don’t work in the cold and snow, in cold airplanes, or cold offices.
Vicky Austin
+1, especially to fleece tights and booties for a month already. We should write a guest post on Dressing Professionally with a Foot of Snow on the Ground.
Anonymous
I wear snow boots for my commute and change into nice shoes at the office. I don’t try to look nice when I’m outside. There’s no point. It’s -30 and there’s three feet of snow, I’m just trying to survive.
Never too many shoes...
I feel like maybe we have just developed a greater tolerance to cold? All these posts about tights under pants inside is always confusing to me. In winter, I wear tights, sorels, a scarf, gloves and a long coat (or a parka). I keep shoes and fancy boots and work and change. I have a cashmere shawl for the coldest of days in the office. Even when I go to court I just change my boots when I get there – everyone does it and it is not a big deal.
Duckles
I realized this morning that my favorite pair of pants is ankle length which means I can’t wear them for the next six months… it’s getting increasingly hard to find full length trousers and what exists seems out of style, but showing ankle is not going to happen…
Anon
“Dressing for winter looks very different in cold and snow.” This is SO TRUE, but doesn’t mean that we’re not going to see 1,000 versions of this question before spring.
anon
I haven’t found anything that works that well, honestly. I’ve given in to the weather and will retire my ankle pants and straight-leg pants until spring. For late fall/winter/early spring, I’m wearing trouser pants with sleek booties (they are very unadorned and just look like regular dressy shoes under my pants). Maybe it’s not the most fashion-forward choice, but I run cold, hate being cold, and refuse to expose my skin when it’s cold!
Anonymous
I do boots with a very narrow shaft that ends about 3 inches above my ankle bone (like a sock bootie). It’s very frustrating though because it’s not a particularly fashion forward look, and I would rather wear a lower heel. I can’t pull off oxfords and socks with straight legs.
Anon
I just started a new job last month, but the commute is already killer (70 minutes each way on extremely crowded public transit) and for the first time in my life, I’m considering leaving at the end of the year since any accommodations to work from home are not available and I have always wanted to relocate to another state anyway. I am sure this would come as a surprise to my employer if I left, although they honestly need to stop ignoring the rumbling discontent among the many other employees who have long commutes too (not by choice – we’re in the Bay Area). Do you think it would blow the reference if I left so early? Is there a way I should be laying the groundwork now to smooth it over?
AnonZ
Yes, it would blow the reference if you left after just a few months. Unless you were unaware of the location when applying for the job (i.e. thought you’d be at Headquarters but then learned you’d be at Branch Office), they will assume you should have thought of the length of the commute prior to accepting the position.
I have sympathy – more than two hours/day commuting is long – but leaving after 3-6 months is just about the worst timing possible since they probably have invested a fair amount of time into training you and now they have to start over with someone else. Do what is right for you but know that there’s probably no way to smooth this over or get a good reference out of it.
Anonymous
Like if you are going to relocate to another state, I’d just do that already and over the holidays is a good time to move.
But what is your story to sell to your next employer? It can’t be “I took a job with a 70-minute one-way commute and it quickly became too much.”
Even though I agree — I had a 3 hr round trip NYC commute and vowed never to do it again; I live in a SEUS city now and am 2 miles from work (15 minutes with stop lights and traffic); when I first arrived, I had a 2-block commute (yes: two blocks). So if you are committing to something like that, you are likely to be happy and get the change you are seeking. But I am also not sure if you really way to stay in the area and WFH that looking for that sort of next job so soon will be easily done.
Anonymous
I would push on WFH. It’s super common in the Bay Area in general for many reasons, including commutes like yours. If you just started, this can see them wanting to be familiar with you before you can, but I would work on that if it’s the only issue. Talk to your manager once you’ve proven yourself a bit, but also get creative, talk to others and recruiting about the issue. You may also want to bring in research that shows flexibility benefits employers (here’s tons of it). If all that fails, look for something else. References after less than a year aren’t worth much, so I wouldn’t worry about that. Next time, be more strategic and consider the downsides before you take a job because you don’t get a ton of skip around opportunities before it starts to be a “thing” that’s hard to explain. It also hurts your advancement opportunities because you often have to keep starting over at the same level.
Anon
The problem is that I know for a fact they won’t budge on WFH. It’s a common gripe in the office. I also feel resentful that I was led to believe that it’s much more WFH friendly than it is. If they did budge, I’d probably stay at least two years.
Anonymous
Kindly, how can you know this for sure a month in? It is quite common for companies to want to know you first so they can trust you to work remotely.
Anonymous
I think this is kind of on you – you knew you were taking on this crazy commute and it shouldn’t be a shock that commuting 70 minutes sucks. They’ll probably be rightfully annoyed if you leave.
Anonymous
I feel like Bay Area people do this all time time.
1. Move far out b/c Bay Area = expensive
2. Take job close in b/c Bay Area.
3 Request WFH b/c Bay Area Commute.
4. Despair that one cannot remake job as one would like.
I feel like this will lead to jobs trying to screen out commuters (or jobs just moving to placed like Phoenix and Texas and Omaha and RTP and Charlotte and Denver where they can get workers who will still come into the office. [So sort of the opposite effect: jobs don’t become WFH jobs, they become Jobs In Other States.]
Would also make sense for jobs to move to whereever the far end of BART is (or like Sacramento or where Sons of Anarchy is supposed to be — somewhere where everything is less expensive; I get that you need some core people in SF/SV but a lot of functions in a business don’t need to be housed there.
Anon
I had a nanny candidate scoff at the small size of my close-in Bay Area home and then press us repeatedly to change our work schedule so one of us would go in late so she could commute at off-peak hours from her giant house across the bay.
anon a mouse
Yes, this – the only reason you should bring up the commute is if they switched locations, or they talked up WFH in the interview and it never materialized. Otherwise it’s all on you.
Anon
Sorry, to clarify, I meant I would leave AFTER a year, not at the end of the year. Can’t form words in the morning…
K
Yeah, leaving after a year is fine. As long as you don’t make a habit of leaving places after a year you’re good.
case
After a year is totally different, but I would be careful on saying “i took a job and found the commute was too much” when interviewing…. Instead, focus on positives of new job/new location and what you learned at 1 year stint.
Anon
Thank you – this is a good point.
Anonymous
Obviously. You’re ridiculous. You took the job knowing this. This is your fsult
Anon
Does telling people how ridiculous they are on this blog every day really make you feel better?
Anonymous
I’m also in the Bay Area and commute to work on bart for over an hour – my last day is this month and I am moving to a work from home job – the commute and traffic gets worse every day…
But yes leaving after only a few months won’t look good – you’ve already asked if you can work from home some days??
Bath renovations
I will be having my yucky tiny bathroom (with shower stall, no tub) refinished. I have no eye for this, but it doesn’t seem worth getting a designer for such a little space. If any design-oriented ladies can share tile, vanity, shower recommendations, I would be so grateful!
anon
You could just go to Home Depot. They have people to help with that kind of thing.
JCH
When we were doing our remodel, I was pretty much on Houzz 24/7. They have great photos and a lot of times, the tile, vanity, etc. info was included.
Senior Attorney
+1 for Houzz
But I would add that with teeny tiny spaces designers really can be worth it. They can make the best use of space because they do this all the time.
BB
I would find a photo of a bathroom you like (or several) then go to Home Depot and find the closest versions of everything.
anon a mouse
Spend some time on a site like Houzz (or even google image search) looking at small bathrooms to see what you like. I find it’s easiest to start with the tile (walls and floor), and then pick the other details to coordinate.
Home Depot will be fine, but in a small space you could probably upgrade your tile for very little extra cost. Find a tile showroom in your area and go look. They may even have designers who will help you for no cost (or a cost that is credited against a purchase).
FWIW, take into account how hard it is to clean certain tiles. I prefer bigger tiles with less grout because they are easier to clean (no penny tile for me, thanks!).
NYC Girl
Check out Studio Mcgee. Tons of great bathroom ideas.
Anonymous
Something I learned recently: It’s hard to go wrong with white/gray marble, except in the shower – marble does not hold up well when exposed to constant wetness and stains easily, so avoid real marble tile in the shower and choose porcelain. If you want a marble look, you can still achieve it with porcelain. Stamped concrete tiles are trendy now, but they also hold up terribly even on a floor. Also, a personal preference, but I think those accent tile bands people put in showers are kind of dated.
Cat
I agree on the accent bands of tile — good rule of thumb: if it’s something you saw Tarek and Christina do in 5 Flip or Flops, it’s already oversaturated and on the way out…
Murz
I’m doing the same thing! Want to trade emails to share ideas? Would be great to soundboard some design ideas off of someone.
Recent Reno
We just finished the exact same space (last night, in fact!) I highly recommend going to Lowe’s or Home Depot to look at tile. My aesthetic is vintage and boho, and the tile options were amazing in store. They aren’t only “builder-grade”. Ultimately we went for a classic white-and-black look because concrete tiles (which I adore!) will look dated in a few years. We chose black hex shower floor; white subway tile shower; and black-and-white basket weave floor. (Subway tile is classic in my old neighborhood and building, so it’s not too trendy for us.) I can change out fun towels, cabinet pulls, paint, etc. if black-and-white gets boring.
Our contractor had us buy the tile, shower door, faucets, and vanity ourselves since those are aesthetic-specific components. He supplied the grout, wallboard, mortar, drain cover, etc etc etc. I regret buying some tile online for in-store delivery at Home Depot, instead of buying tile that’s stocked regularly. We ended up needing extra tile halfway through, so our options were either (1) order online, wait a week for delivery with total mess in the house, and completion whenever the contractor could come back; or (2) buy all new in-stock tile and get the job done timely.
Xarcady
You might want to reconsider the designer. IMO, it’s not the size of the space, but the difficulty in dealing with it that can make a designer invaluable.
If you find someone who has done lots of bathrooms, they may have some ideas for things like adding storage that you might not have thought of. It might be worth having one consult with a designer, not so much for which exact tile to use, but on how best to use the space you have.
I also think that bathrooms which have permanent fixtures, like sinks and toilets and tile, that are difficult or expensive to change are a good reason to call in a designer. If you make a mistake, you will be stuck with it far longer than if you just painted a room an odd color.
Tash
I will have 7 days to myself in Vietnam, would you go to the northern part or the south? For the north, I would tentatively do Hanoi, Ninh Binh and Halong Bay. If I were go spend my time in the south, I would spend time in Ho Chi Minh, Mekong Delta and Phu Quoc. Hoping to eat some delicious food, do some moderate hiking/outdoors activity and see some culture. Any recommendations? I’ll be there in early December if that makes any difference.
EM84
I have done both, actually travelled from the North to South.
The North – Hanoi can be seen in 1 day, you would need 1,5 days for Halong Bay and then I would try to combine it with some hiking (can you manage Sapa as well?). I haven’t been to Ninh Binh though.
Central – I enjoyed Danang (least crowded, great food), cycled to the Marble Mountains, enjoyed Hoi An (food, culture, though a bit touristy), haven’t seen Hue but heard lots of good reviews.
South – I did not enjoy HCMC at all and we used it only as a transit pount to Phu Quoc island (some amazing food is waiting for you there! nice beaches, great for relaxing), didn’t manage Mekong delta but I would recommend after he reviews from close friends.
My favourite parts: Halong Bay, Danang, Hoi An and Phu Quoc. I loved that food was different every 200km.
If I only had 7 days, I would do Central part or North, as this would best fit your culture & outdoor preferences. I have been there in December and north was 18-20C, south was warmer 28C.
Anon
The south is a balmy 75 F in December (maybe even hotter?). It’s much colder in the north at that time of year. There’s older history in the north (but not very well preserved), the pace is less chaotic, and Halong Bay is beautiful. HCM is busier, younger, has remnants of French colonism that you can see from architecture and street names. It all depends on what you’re looking for.
Beth
The North gets surprisingly cold (or at least feels surprisingly cold, thanks to the humidity), so that is something to consider. I didn’t love Halong Bay–it felt very touristy and over-saturated even though we were there during the off-season. I LOVED our stay in the Mekong. We spent time in Can Tho, then 2 days in a fancy rural homestay about 25 minutes outside of Can Tho, then 2 days in a way-off the tourist track city about half way between Can Tho and HCMC (looking at the map maybe Vinh Long? we literally just picked a town half way between Can Tho and HCMC). Loved all of it. Not as instagram glamorous as Halong Bay or Hoi An, but the people were absolutely lovely and the food was incredible. We mostly biked anywhere and everywhere we could and ate a lot of food.
I also really loved HCMC. We spent a day doing nothing but going to various cafes, and HCMC reminds me of Barcelona with its themed and charming cafes. We found most of them by checking blogs, and it is so cool to walk up to a concrete block apartment building and then emerge into some crazy beautiful courtyard garden cafe. Between Hue and Hoi An, I liked Hue better for the history/feeling. Hoi An is disneyland Vietnam–it’s where I would take my parents to experience a lovely trip, but just going to Hoi An doesn’t really give you a good sense of the country. If you go to Hoi An, the silent cafe run by the deaf (Reaching Out Teahouse) is an absolute joy and their handicraft shop (I think also Reaching Out) had the most beautiful, handcrafted wares we saw over three weeks.
Best buys 2018
What are your best/favorite/most used buys of 2018, home, beauty, clothing, convenience item or otherwise? Mine are my cuisinart kettle (SO awesome to select the perfect water temp) and my gap funnel neck sweatshirt (I now own 3 and will be living in them til April).
BeenThatGuy
This year, I switched from ridiculously expensive skin care products to Korean skin care. I’m saving tons of money and my skin has ever looked better (not an easy task at 42!)
Best buys 2018
Would love to know the details of your new routine and any sources you found to navigate K skin care.
BeenThatGuy
I started with some recommendations from this board and the g o o g l e machine. I use Skin Food Peach Sake Toner, Seoul Ceuticals Vitamin C Hyaluronic Acid, Cosrx oil free ultra moisturizing lotion with Birch Sap (for day) and Skin & Lab red cream at night. I’ve tried some of the products with snail mucin extract and haven’t loved them. But at the price point, I don’t mind trying them and then tossing (or giving to a friend) if they don’t work for me. I haven’t found a cleanser or eye cream that is better than Cetaphil or Keihl’s avocado eye cream. If anyone has suggestions, I’m all ears!
Anon
Where do you buy these products from?
BabyAssociate
Check Soko Glam
In House Lobbyist
I love Korean Beauty too! Soko Glam’s book was a great start. I buy all mine on Amazon. My skin has never looked better and people comment on it all the time now. And it is so cheap that it is highly addictive!
Anonymous
beautysesh! us based (hawaii), i think they import from asia. lots of fakes on amazon so im iffy about buying on there. but have had a great experience w beautysesh
eertmeert
I use K Beauty as well, and have had similar results. The websites Soko Glam and Peach & Lily are great resources.
For my repeat buys, I swear by several products from the brand CosRx (check their instagram page for recommendations of products by skin type). They are inexpensive and reliable. The 96% snail mucin is awesome – it took me a few nights to get used to the texture, but now I don’t ever skip it. Also, their rice sleeping pack I’ve purchased 3 times, and will continue to do so.
I often buy off of ebay, from KBeauty sellers with 99.6 and up ratings. RosesRosesShop, iamlove-shop, dream.forecast are sellers I’ve purchased from. Shipping is free, and I stock up when ebay has 10-20% off site-wide coupon codes.
Sunshine
Check the AsianBeauty reddit forum for lots of great info, including beginner routines. I really like a few of the bloggers too: Snow White & the Asian Pear and Fifty Shades of Snail are two of my favorites.
I buy from amaz0n, Jolse, and RoseRoseShop primarily. When I stared with Korean skincare, amaz0n’s prices weren’t competitive, but they usually are now.
Snail products work extremely well for me as do sheet masks. No need to pay $8 for a sheet mask at Sephora.
all about eevee
Invisibobble ponytail holders
Naked Cherry Palette
Frye 14L Campus Boot in Banana
Fresh Sugar Spice Tinted Lip Balm
Torin
I am intrigued by these ponytail holders. Do you happen to have curly hair? They say they’re good for curly hair in the product description but all reviews I can see are from people with straight hair.
trefoil
Not the OP, but my hair is wavy and thick and i love them. They’ve also been remarkably hard to lose–i got a pack of 4 for christmas last year and there’s still one in the box.
anony
I have curly hair and I love them! They never fall out and aren’t too tight/loose.
all about eevee
My hair is wavy and thin. I love these ponytail holders because they make my ponytail look like it has more volume. My friend with curly hair also loves them.
cbackson
The Magic Bullet.
Anonymous
The stick-on pocket on the back of my phone, for just my credit card. Makes my daily life so much easier.
anon
I have a Verus phone case with a pocket and I love it.
Vicky Austin
Paula’s Choice BHA exfoliant and a quality coffee thermos.
Vicky Austin
Oh, and a shoe rack. Quality of life +100. The shoes have a home!
Worry about yourself
We ordered a refurbished Dyson v6 off Groupon, and it’s been awesome! I actually enjoy vacuuming!
Also, wool dryer balls, they’re super inexpensive and really do help decrease dry time, I can dry all my clothes on low heat now.
Anonymous
Beauty: Hourglass Vanish Flash Highlighting Stick. I look so much more awake now!
Housecounsel
I love this question. Mine are the Perricone M.D. line of No-Makeup Makeup, especially the No-Eyeshadow Eyeshadow. I second the Invisibobble recommendation. I am loving my Revlon one-step dryer and styler. Eyelash extensions. The Enlite bra from Lululemon.
CPA Lady
Clothing: Knee length down coat from Lands End on year end clearance (sssuuuuuper warm and awesome)
Makeup: Gimme Brow eyebrow mascara — makes my whole face look more put together and polished
Household Item: Dyson pet hair vacuum. It’s magical!
In-House in Texas
The app Poshmark! I love it. I used to buy a ton online at Nordstrom, AT, etc. and returned 75%. Now, I know what fits me and I just go to Poshmark and I get the same brands for pennies. I’m also saving a ton b/c I’m not buying a ton just because it’s 50% off retail. I buy shoes, clothes, handbags, you name it. If you haven’t tried it, I highly recommend! Use my referral code: merrpg and get $5 your first order (I get $5 too, full disclosure!)
Anonymous
Me too – I haven’t bought anything not on Poshmark – except shoes bc duck feet.
Coach Laura
Roomba has changed our house for the better.
Travelpro International Carryon suitcase – great size and weight
MagicUnicorn
Kitchen cabinet organizers. Not anything fancy, just those white coated wire racks, but I spent a solid day measuring and overthinking while comparing sizes and prices online until I found the perfect combo. Took another day to set everything up and our kitchen is now so much more user friendly.
Anonymous
Feeling totally bummed about all aspects of the world and my life today. Anyone have any uplifting stories or suggestions?
Anon
My boyfriend’s team from work had a poker night last weekend. They invited the women from their team to join and ones that accepted were welcomed warmly. 20 (10? 5? 1?) years ago, this would have been a men’s-only event.
Ellen
Yes, that is how my dad remembers this. After you are MARRIED, men had their night away from their wives playing poker, and sometimes watching dirty movies, and women stayed home or had a knitting club meeting. My ex said that was what he was going to do, and I would not have been unhappy to get him out of my apartment for a night a week. As it was, he wasn’t really a homebody like me, so I am glad I am rid of him.
Anonymous
I hear that. I read an article on NPR about an emu and a donkey who are inseparable, so that brought me some joy.
Anonymous
Check out Thoughts of Dog on Twitter.
Senior Attorney
Uplifting story: On October 27 my husband and I were cycling on a bike trail we’d ridden hundreds (him)/dozens (me) of times. He was in the lead, came out of a blind curve and ran into a steel gate that had never been closed in all his 20 years of riding there. Flew up in the air, landed on his head. Ambulance to the hospital, spent the night in the ICU, next night in a regular room. Three cracked ribs, two cracked vertebrae, and OMG his poor face with all the bruising from the head bump.
What’s the uplifting part? He’s going to be fine. And he is the sweetest-tempered person on the planet and I haven’t been irked with him even once despite having stayed home with him all this time.
Lobbyist
Ack that’s terrifying. I’m a bike rider too. I hope he heals quickly and that you continue to not be irked by him.
Quiche
Coworkers and I are having a spirited discussion about quiche. Is it for breakfast or lunch? We all agree brunch is okay but some say it’s not for breakfast. Can the hive give us an answer?
Anonymous
Breakfast, Brunch, Lunch or Dinner. Totally acceptable for each of these. But I prefer crustless quiche which is less heavy.
#teamquiche
Vicky Austin
+1 to crustless! So much easier.
Anonymous
Boss’s answer: “Get back to work!”
My answer …why does it matter? I like quiche. I eat it for dinner, lunch, or breakfast.
Vicky Austin
Quiche is for EVERY meal! Protein, customizable veggie content, and all the cheese your cheese-eatin’ heart could wish for. Food is food any time of day! Signed, recent college grad who LIVED on eggs.
Anonymous
Its…for whenever you are hungry? I wouldn’t make it for breakfast, just because I want something quick/easy to make for breakfast, but I’m not going to not-eat it for breakfast if it’s already there and ready to eat (leftovers from brunch?).
Anonymous
Any time is a good time for quiche!
Anonymous
I don’t know the official rule, but I certainly eat and serve quiche for breakfast. I found this to be common in the US. No idea what they do in France.
Aunt Jamesina
It’s a lunch food in France, but this francophile thinks it’s a great option for either. How many foods are great hot or cold, and can be eaten any meal of the day?
Horse Crazy
You don’t know the official rule because there is no official rule.
Anonymous
Whenever I make quiche, I make at least two pies and eat if for breakfast, lunch, and dinner haha! If for dinner, I make a salad to go with it.
BB
I am team EVERYTHING IS FOR BREAKFAST! :) I kind of hate the idea of “breakfast foods” – if I want to wake up and eat a pint of ice cream, great! If I want to eat a whole turkey dinner, great!
Anonymous
agreed. when we were first together, it was very hard for my now husband to understand that I thought dinner leftovers were acceptable for breakfast. My thought was – if it was delicious for dinner the night before (or two nights ago), why wouldn’t it still be delicious for breakfast? I think he still finds it odd/weird, but just doesn’t say anything now when I’m eating leftovers some mornings.
BB
I used to live off of dinner leftovers for breakfast every day! (I only stopped for calorie-cutting reasons) I still do it on the weekends. I am also someone who wakes up absolutely starving every morning, whereas I think others wake up with no appetite so all they can eat is some oatmeal.
Anonymous
IDK but I want to work somewhere where there are spirited discussions re quiche (I hate it, but I believe that a slice of pound cake qualifies as pastry if eaten in the morning).
PastryWitchcraft
Pounds cake magically becomes coffee cake between 6am and 11am.
Edna Mazur
All of the above plus the evening meal.
Anon
WTH? This is America, there are no rules. As someone who often adds an egg to leftover ramen, pad thai or pizza for breakfast, I’m going to eat quiche whenever I darn well please.
I do think the French traditionally eat it for lunch or dinner, I’ve had it as a cafe entree that comes with a green salad. Personally I prefer a more robust savory breakfast, which bucks the coffee and croissant norms.
Anonymous
Both!
Anon
I regularly make quiche for dinner and eat the leftovers for lunch. I think the type of quiche matters a lot. For my dinner quiche, I put sausage, spinach, sundried tomatoes in it. If I were making a breakfast quiche, I would probably do something lighter.
Anonymous
This dress looks lovely. Has anyone tried this dress on? I’m wondering how difficult it would be to wear a regular bra with it.
Anon
I think it is a pretty dress, but it looks impossible to wear a regular bra with it (unless you are ok with your bra straps showing, which is not a work-look for me).
Anonymous
When I wear necklines like this, I put safety pins at the corners and feed my bra straps through them so that they don’t show.
Original Poster
My parents (in their 60s) have been living with and caring for my grandmother (in her 80s) for a while now, without any assistance, in their small midwestern city. My grandmother’s balance isn’t great, she has bowel/bladder control issues, and she is mostly deaf, but she is otherwise in okay health all things considered (but is and has always been a difficult personality). My parents have both had physical health setbacks recently, and my siblings and I are figuring out next steps. I thought I would consult with this wise group on two points.
#1 – I feel like they need more in-home assistance. They have a cleaning service that does the heavy-duty work 1x/wk, but everything else falls to my mom. I would like someone to come in daily to clean up after my grandmother (right now, my mom does it on her hands and knees) and just be available to help out with the random things that need to be done, driving to appts., etc. How do I find this person? Do I need to go to an elder assistance company (they all seem like big chains with mediocre reviews), or can I just look for any old housekeeper on craigs list, or should I call the local government’s elder services department and ask for a recommendation?
#2 – My siblings and I are planning a meeting with my parents to figure out how they want their lives to play out over the next few years, as their mobility is expected to decline. The big questions relate to work (and health insurance plans if they retire) and housing: whether to move to where their kids are, or if not, whether to stay in their big suburban house or move to somewhere smaller, or even assisted living — and what to do about my grandmother, who is making them miserable. I also have some smaller questions, around finances, in-home assistance, driving ability. And I have a list of information we need in case there is a medical emergency or in the event of death, taken from the SSA’s site. Are there other big topics you would recommend addressing? If you have suggestions for how to roll out this discussion, or any other advice, I would really appreciate it. Thanks.
Anonymous
They are likely miserable because caring for your grandmother *bodily* is a 24 hour a day job. I’d focus on that, right now. You may want a CNA or home health aide to clean up after bowel accidents, etc. I’m 99% sure this is why they are miserable, not the easier clean-house type stuff (I’m a caregiver for a quadriplegic right now). This runs $23-25/hr in my MHCOL area and is not reimbursed or paid for by insurance or Medicare – only Medicaid. You can go through an agency or privately – a home health agency is probably easier to manage if you aren’t there to assist (can send replacements immediately if someone doesn’t show up, licensed/bonded, can switch out aides for better personality fits if needed).
Then I’d work on the easier-to-fix items like housekeeping.
Anonymous
Following up to add, the financial questions may be much bigger than you think. Much of the care you think Medicare or insurance will pay for, isn’t – long-term care, in-home aides,etc. 24 hour care can cost $150-250k per year if/when it’s needed.
Anonymous
Yeah I mean… this is why people put their parents in a retirement/nursing home/assisted living. It’s not because they don’t want to keep them at home. It’s because, despite the fact that residential elder care is very expensive, it doesn’t hold a candle to in-home care.
Anonymous
Home health aides are relatively inexpensive (they make just about minimum wage for doing what ends up being very important, meaningful work). The local gov’t’s elder division should be able to recommend some services or independent contractors. Many of the aides who cared for my grandfather would have loved to have had a steady job with consistent hours.
Unless very poor health and early deaths run in your family, 60 is still young! I think instead of it being a big Thing, you can simply ask, “Hey, mom, dad, we’re thinking about your future as Grandma ages. What are you envisioning for your retirement?” They’re still autonomous adults, even if they have been ill.
Anonymous
Home health aides in my MHCOL area make well north of minimum wage – usually $20-25 per hour.
Anonymous
Are you sure this isn’t the price to the payer, rather than the salary? I have intimate professional knowledge of the field and I’ve never heard of these folks making more than a few dollars over minimum wage. For reference, I live in a strong-paying healthcare market (where hospital systems pay nurses $35/hr out of school) and home health aids make ~12/hr.
anon a mouse
For #1, definitely start with the local elder services office. And ask whether there are programs that provide the type of services you are looking for – in many areas, low-income elderly qualify for light housekeeping or errand support.
Anonymous
It sounds like it’s time to put grandma in nursing home, actually. I don’t think the solution is a housekeeper.
CPA Lady
Is their estate planning up to date? Do they have medical and financial POAs? I had to manage the care of an elderly extended family member a couple years ago, and having a POA set up was crucial to make sure I could do all the things I needed to do once she was incapacitated and in her final months. She was nearly 90, so hopefully this is far off for your parents, but if there are known health issues, it’s still a good idea to have done, especially if they are moving to be close to one of you. Also, this was a LOT to manage, and I wasn’t doing any hands on stuff, as my family member had an in-home care taker. It took a solid 10-20 hours a week of my time once she took a turn for the worse and I had to handle everything for her. Part of that was that there was another family member in the mix who thought I was doing everything wrong and was trying to obstruct me every step of the way.
Through the course of my work and in this personal experience, I have seen a lot of family members at each others throats because they aren’t all on the same page. I really commend you all for getting together in meeting. But having your parents put all their wishes in writing is EXTREMELY helpful. That way once one of them is incapacitated, there’s going to be a lot less bickering because one of you thinks that mom should be put in a home while the other of you thinks she should be cared for. What does mom want? My family member had all her wishes in writing, which was immensely helpful, especially at the end when I had to decide whether to let her die in her home or be transported to a hospice facility. I had her wishes in writing that she wanted to stay in her home, so that’s what we did.
Anonymous
This is great advice. One quibble – your family member may have wishes she wants put in place, but in many cases, these will conflict with what you can or want to do yourself, whether at the outset, or down the road. For instance, being able to stay at home is great, but if the person can’t do so safely or doing so requires that caregiving stretches out for years (not uncommon), you may need to make adjustments.
CPA Lady
Yes, that’s very true and a good point. Duration of their decline is a big part of this. My relative had a very quick decline in the end, so I was able to arrange things how she wanted, and we could afford to pay for it. It would be different if it would have stretched out a lot longer.
Original Poster
Thanks. To be clear (and apologies if I come off as defensive or frantic, I am not in my best state of mind right now), both of my parents have recently been diagnosed with serious degenerative neurological conditions that cannot be reversed or cured. One of them — the one whose job offers health insurance — is almost certainly retiring at the end of the year. His condition is pretty obscure, and there are few specialists in the world, so it could make sense for him to move to our big city if he wants to aggressively treat it. They are not on the cusp of death, but their mobility has dropped precipitously in recent months and will likely continue to do so in the next few years. They are not old (part of the reason this is so hard to process), but their bodies are…not doing well. Finances are a consideration, but my parents are well off, so they are not the limiting factor. Yes, cleaning up after my grandmother is a huge cause of their unhappiness, which is why I included #1 — I know they hate it, and originally I was literally thinking of just having someone come in for an hour every evening to scrape sh!t off the floor — but there are also other things about her that they dislike (they have been unhappy with her since she moved in, before she started losing control of her excretions). And more importantly, their own declines are making them miserable, especially since they are not willing to outsource, lower their expectations or ask for help; having someone able-bodied in their house may help with those issues, as could living in a city where their children and grandchildren and other relatives live.
Anonymous
Wow, so this is a lot more complicated. I’m the one who was a caregiver above – my spouse has a degenerative neuro disease and is very advanced at this point. Please, find yourself a therapist and a caregiver support group – you’re on the cusp of this happening to you – not just your parents – and you’ll want the support. Trust me on this
Anon
I really think the best answer for grandma is a nursing home. She might not love the idea, but they are trained and equipped to help her in a way that your parents can’t as they mobility declines
anon
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anon
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long term care insurance
My parents refuse to get it because they insist the companies always find an excuse to not pay out. I’ve been at this with them for years because I am a teacher and will not have the money to be their fallback. Are they right? Any resources I can use to convince them otherwise? They’re still in good health now, but I worry about what’s going to happen a decade from now and beyond. I recently realized I’m 30 and way behind on saving for my own retirements, so I’m really starting to panic about this.
Anonymous
If they don’t have it, they will spend down all their assets until they qualify for Medicaid and then Medicaid will cover much of their costs.
Anon
You can get long term care insurance yourself that will apply to immediate family members/ dependents. You can also be blunt with them and tell them that if they need long term care, you literally don’t have the money to provide it so they’ll have to go to a state run home – you’ll visit but can’t do anything else for them. They know you don’t make a lot as a teacher and that you can’t stop working if they need care, so they are making this decision for themselves. Other than possibly getting your own long term care insurance, you should feel free to stop worrying guilt free, as they’ve played out the scenario and have accepted the consequences.
anon
They are right. There are a ton of class action lawsuits over it right now. At this point its much more expensive than it once was because everyone who bought it years ago and is using it now has expenses that have far outpaced what the insurance companies were expecting, and the companies are scrambling to not lose their shirts. Here’s an interesting article on the topic…
https://www.forbes.com/sites/investor/2018/09/21/before-you-buy-long-term-care-insurance-check-out-these-alternatives/#420b76321b39
MNF
They should speak to an elder law attorney and financial adviser about their options. It’s true that long term care premiums are very expensive in many places, so that may not be the correct answer. They may choose to do Medicaid planning to cover long term costs. Insurance is just one way to attack the issue.
Anonymous
OP – thanks all. It’s a major source of stress for me so I appreciate the responses.
anon
I have developed work-related anxiety in the past couple of years. (I am prone to anxiety anyway and am on a low dose of Zoloft.) I think the root causes are 1) my actual job — this is the first time I’ve had a mid-management job and it’s so much harder than I ever expected; 2) issues stemming from senior leadership changes and not getting much direction whatsoever, despite my best efforts; and 3) being constantly asked to do more, more, more — but no changes in resources to actually get that done.
I’m job hunting, because part of me thinks the only way to escape the anxiety is to leave the environment that’s causing it. But in the meantime, how do I cope better? I saw an EAP counselor a YEAR Ago (yikes), and his advice was basically … leave. Not so much about how not to lose my mind in the meantime.
pugsnbourbon
Hey there – going through something similar myself. I am back in therapy and hoping to start a different medication soon. As far as day-to-day coping goes – a line from a recent Ask A Manager podcast really resonated with me. She advised the letter-writer to try to create “emotional distance” from her work. I find that concept helpful when I need to corral and reframe my anxious thoughts.
Good luck and I hope you’re feeling better soon.
Vanessa
I have no advice. I am in a very similar situation as you. I’ve started looking for a new job even though it will be hard to match the pay and benefits that I have at my current one. I would love to hear from others.
Anon
Can you start seeing a therapist? I’m worried that just getting a new job isn’t going to solve your problem. The things you describe are certainly difficult, but aren’t all that uncommon. A therapist could help you work on some other strategies, too, in case the new job still causes some anxiety.
Betsy
+1! I ran away from a stressful job a few years ago and ended up in an even more stressful job. I was the common denominator in that situation! It took three tries to find a therapist I clicked with, but once I did therapy became extremely helpful for figuring out how to handle the stress better. I’m not sorry that I left the first job because it led my life down a trajectory I’m really happy with, but if I had done the work in therapy while I was still there I probably would not have left.
AnonTechie
tl;dr: How do not give in and be a SAHM when your spouse makes 3x what you do and your in-laws keep bullying you.
I’m under 30, and have a 3 year old. I work as a Product Manager at a startup in Europe. My husband (also in Tech) is about 5 years older, and makes roughly 3 times what I do and is extremely supportive of my career and is avery engaged and active parent but I sometimes ask myself if it is even worth continuing to work and if being a SAHM and more fully supporting my husband’s career makes more sense long term.
I enjoy my work and never planned to be a SAHM but when i got pregnant a few years ago, I started getting aggresively pressured by my in-laws to quit working because my work was unimportant and i “didnt have much of a career anyway” vs. my much older sister-in-law (their daughter) who worked a demanding but fulfilling job in an industry where salaries run low but prestige runs high. My husband shut this down pretty quickly, but they’ve continued to make snarky remarks and I seem to have internalized the messaging and equate the value of my job with what it pays. The worst part is that I am objectively well paid and not entirely mommy-tracked (coworkers in similar roles are older and non-parents) and that at least part of the pay diff is attributable to me having moved for his work 2 times (!!) and the most recent time, we negotiated a much much higher offer for my husband than is normal for where we live by emphasizing that I’d have to quit my job in an expensive US city with high salaries so any “cost of living advantage” would vanish.
I tell myself that continuing to work is not purely a selfish choice (i enjoy work and HATED being a SAHM when we moved) when life logistics get hard (daycare holidays, work travel , 3pm events at daycare during the weekday etc) or when kiddo feels like hanging out at home rather than wearing 3 layers and going to the daycare.
Anonymous
Ignore them? In-laws have no relevance to your life. The only people involved in this decision should be you and your husband.
Anonymous
“i enjoy work and HATED being a SAHM when we moved.” This. It is perfectly ok to not want to be a SAHM. And I’m not a child therapy, but it makes common sense to me that your child would rather have a happy mom who works than an unhappy mom who’s around all the time. Just because you’re a mom doesn’t mean you’re not still YOU. You don’t want to be a SAHM, and that’s perfectly ok. Tell Grandma to keep her opinions about it to herself. “My career is not up for discussion.”
cbackson
Your working is no more a selfish choice than your husband working. You are allowed to do things that fulfill you personally, first off. Second, you didn’t actually like being a SAHM. Your in-laws are basically pressuring you to switch jobs to a job that you already tried and disliked. Think about it this way: if you were a lawyer and you’d previously been an accountant and you HATED being an accountant AND it paid less, would you go back to being an accountant just because you could survive on only your husband’s salary and your in-laws wanted you to? Of course you wouldn’t.
anon
You ignore your inlaws and realize that you and your husband are on the same team, which is great. He continues to enforce boundaries. Continuing to work is not only *not* selfish, it’s smart. I don’t know what “more fully supporting your husband’s career” would entail, but consider that your being a SAHM puts even *more* pressure on his career. And any benefit your quitting provides to his career will be far outweighed by the detriment to your career by quitting. Never forget the worst case scenario– being a SAHM to support your husband’s career does not make sense long term if you divorce.
Never too many shoes...
I do not know how to say this other than to be blunt – you are a grown adult. You do not want to be a SAHM. DO NOT BE ONE. If your in-laws bring it up, just tell them it is not a subject that it up for discussion and then move on to asking about something innocuous, like their hobbies or what is new with their friends.
Working is not only about salary. It is about accruing retirement benefits, keeping your experience and skills current, having something for yourself and fulfilling your own desires and being able to care for yourself and your children should something happen to your husband. But you do not owe them explanation or apology.
anon
This. Good grief. They need to STFU. If they are truly bullying you, your husband needs to tell them to back off.
In the mean time, ignore them completely. Practice saying “okay, that’s nice.” or “its not up for discussion.” Their opinion is irrelevant. Why do you care so much what they think, anyway? There are lots of good books about setting boundaries if that is something you struggle with.
My husband makes twice what I do, and while I have done some things to the detriment of my career in order to support his, I have never for a second thought about quitting my job altogether. No thanks.
Anon
I’ll say this based on what you put above. There is literally no reason for you to stop working. You like your job, your husband supports you working, you hated being a SAHM, and “supporting your husband’s career” and quitting your job don’t really relate or correlate unless your husband’s a multi-millionaire who requires a wife to keep up with social engagements and philanthropy to keep up community status and close deals (you don’t indicate that is the case), it’s not like you’re moving every 6 mths. There is no upside of being a SAHM for you based on what you described. Yes logistics can be a littler hard, but they are for everyone whether you have a kid or not and you can make active choices about what you can and can’t attend, and you have the resources to afford supportive care (ex. a mother’s helper, after daycare care). Also consider that in 2 years, your kid will be in school most of the day and if you hated being a SAHM when you moved you’ll start scratching at the walls with nothing to do besides clean and volunteer at the school library.
If I were you, I’d block out the in-laws and keep chugging along.
Anon
Your husband needs to shut this down. If you working is the best choice for the family – and your happiness is also a factor in that – then that’s what is being done. His family needs to butt out and be told on no uncertain terms that they do not get to badger you.
Then again, I am an epic hard@ss about this subject. You cannot have a functional marriage when everyone sticks their nasty little noses into the decision-making process.
Anon
1) You tell your husband he needs to immediately and effectively shut down this line of talk from his parents. 2) You stop caring what they think. Easier said than done, I know. But they don’t get to make this decision for you at all and they are being incredibly inappropriate by continuing to bring it up. It’s their fault; they’re making it weird and awkward.
Coach Laura
It seems easy to say but if finances aren’t a problem, wouldn’t a nanny or au pair take some of the burden off you? A lot of what you have to do to is a logistical problem. That would solve the work travel, sick kid, school holiday problem and take some stress off you and allow you to enjoy your child and husband the way you want. You could keep your child in day care with nanny doing drop-off or pick-up, nanny could do errands like dry cleaning and pharmacy pickups, light housework like load/unload dishwasher and meal prep.
thoughts
Exactly. As a 49 year old who has always worked in some capacity (even when people told me it was crazy as they speculated on my husband’s income), I have learned three things over the years:
1. My husband prefers for me to work. Although my income is lower, I have fantastic benefits and the thought of having another income to fall back on really takes pressure off him.
2. Good jobs are hard to find. Since you have one, I would be inclined to keep it, even if that means using a lot of your take home pay for a nanny or au pair. My happiest days were working 30 hours a week while having a full time nanny. She took my daughter to preschool, managed home repairs, etc. It was lovely for everyone.
3. I’m at the age where many of my peers who left careers for SAHM 10-15 years ago are finding it impossible to jump back into the workforce at the level they feel qualified. For every nurse or pharmacist who has an easy time, there is a former financial analyst working as a retail store assistant manager, former college professor opening a business to organize closets (after an exhaustive search at local colleges and universities), etc.
4. My own mother seems to resent that I work so I know how you feel about your MIL.
Overall, it sounds like you have a very good situation. I would be inclined to keep it.
Anon
Your third point is so important. I have heard it from women of about your age for at least a decade – leave for 10 years and you may never get back in.
It is one of the reasons I will probably not stay at home with kids if I have them – I can’t afford to retire early, which it really is.
Anonymous
“No” is a complete sentence.
Housecounsel
I went through this exact same thing when my oldest, now in college (and somehow thriving despite my “selfish” decision to work her whole life) was a baby. One day, my husband shut his mother down, giving the most beautiful speech about my training and my talent and why should I give it up? It was Hallmark-movie-worthy and probably the most romantic thin he has ever done. The in-laws have never once mentioned the topic of me working again. That is a long way of saying that your husband needs to deal with his parents.
Anoner
I empathize with you so much on this. I am so tired of enduring my in-laws’ (futile) attempts to control my career decisions.
My husband did a good job of shutting this down, but their opinion of my career still comes through in veiled remarks. Just as they can’t control me, I can’t control them.
It helps to remind myself that they do not understand the situation and that they are just making incorrect statements. This makes it easier for me to brush off their judgemental comments.
You can’t make everyone brilliant and well-mannered… My in-laws are generally good people, though, so I try to be patient and compassionate.
Anonymous
If anyone is looking for a great show to watch and isn’t opposed to animation… I just finished Season 5 of Bojack Horseman, on N3tflix, and it’s just as excellent and devastating as the seasons before it. Woof. (Or neigh, as the case may be). The first season takes a few episodes to get into, but it’s worth it. I’ve never seen anything, in any genre, hit home so aptly and forcefully. Any other fans here?
BB
I LOVE this show! It’s so funny and so poignant at the same time. I also like how it deals with really serious issues. Like that episode in the funeral home this season…with the ending (keeping it vague to avoid spoilers). So gut wrenching and yet had some legitimately funny gags in it too, including the end. AVClub does really good recaps of all the episodes if that’s up your alley.
Anonymous
DH loves this show, and I don’t understand the appeal at all.
Anon
I love the show because I enjoy shows about the business of showbiz and animal documentaries. It could also relate to hearing references from home, being from L.A. I could do without Todd’s hijinks that lead to a ridiculous rhyme, but this show captures what it’s like to live with depression extremely well, such as disappointing others, relapses, self-sabotage, insecurity, etc.