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Updated: Aug 29, 2023 241 Comments · by

Thursday’s Workwear Report: Doubleweave V-Neck Sheath Dress

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I came across this Ann Taylor sheath dress when I was searching for something for the suit roundup we did last week — and I think it's a great dress. I love the “winter emerald” color, which is a little unusual, and it also comes in “grenadine punch,” a bright orange.

It's lined, has a back vent and concealed back zip, and — because it's Ann Taylor — you already know what you're getting. It's machine washable, too.

The dress comes in regular and petite sizes and is $138, but with code SOREADY you can get 40% off, which brings it down to $83. Doubleweave V-Neck Sheath Dress

Nordstrom has a plus-size option from Tahari at the same price (but unfortunately it's not currently on sale).

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Sales of note for 9.30.24

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Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. Anon

    I tried this dress on last weekend. The color is beautiful and rich, and the fabric feels substantial. However, the v-neckline was too deep for my 32D/DD chest. I was definitely showing cleavage and wouldn’t be able to wear it to work. I often wear a camisole under tops with a v-neck but felt like a camisole under this dress would look weird. It would probably be fine on smaller chested women. Too bad because it’s otherwise a very nice dress.

    • pugsnbourbon

      I was going to ask if anyone had tried it on – glad the color is as good in person as it is on screen!

    • Anonymous

      Thanks for the review, Anon- sounds like it might work for me. I love love love the color

    • Anon

      Thanks for the review. I really want this dress but at 32G I should probably pass.

    • Anonymous

      30DD with the same concern. I think I’d be okay layering with a base layer that has the same neckline? Very tempted by this one; this color is almost universally flattering.

    • Frozen Peach

      I love the color but I’m glad to know this as a DDD.

      Anyone want to do a mini shopping round up for other clothes in this color?

    • Anonymous

      You can probably have a tailor shorten the shoulder so the V-neck is tighter for $10…could also have a tailor add a strip of fabric to the dress itself so it has more of a modesty panel. (But you could do both of those things when the dress goes lower on sale, like it surely will.)

      • Anon

        I tried this on also, and it did not work for me. I’m a 34A. I am pear-shaped, so it is normal for me to get dresses to fit my hips and then have the top taken in. This, at least for me, did not seem possible here. The material is really heavy, which seemed like it would make it harder to do alterations. Also, while this is less apparent on the model, the dress isn’t really waisted or the waist is an empire waist? I really couldn’t tell where it was supposed to be on me. But anyway, there just was not enough space to take the straps in and have the waist be in a normal place if that makes sense. It just did not fit great. Not awful, but not great enough to put in all the alterations it would have needed.

    • Anonymous

      Oh weird! I’m a 34D and have this dress and wore it to work yesterday and didn’t have any cleavage whatsoever. I guess I could have had cleavage if id worn a push-up bra, but with a normal T-shirt bra it was very work appropriate and flattering.

      • Anonymous

        I bet height is a factor – the neckline would be much lower on a petite person than a tall person.

        • Anonymous

          This. I am tall and have a relatively low chest line. That leaves a lot of space for a neckline before any cleavage starts.

        • Anonymous

          34D anon here. Maybe that’s it. I’m 5’6” and have an extremely short torso. This dress was really flattering on me, and I think it would look good on a lot of other people as well so I’d hate for people to discount it based on 1 customer’s review of lots of cleavage.

          It’s nice material and lined and really good quality for the price. I’ve been impressed with the Ann Taylor dresses that I have!

  2. Anon Attorney

    I posted late yesterday, so posting again hoping to get a few more responses. I am finishing up my federal clerkship this week and beginning at a large law firm (not BigLaw, but Am200) next week. I will be starting as a midlevel associate (with credit for time served), but I have not been in private practice as a practicing attorney yet. As my start date approaches, I am realizing how anxious I am about the transition. Any advice on how to prepare/anything you wish you would have known? Thank you all!

    • Rainbow Hair

      You’re going to do awesome! You sound like a smart cookie and your clerkship experience will be really helpful. Rah rah!

    • Anonymous

      Get in good billing/timekeeping habits from day 1. Other than that, just act like your professional, competent self!

    • Anonymous

      I did this and it was an easy transition. You are treated much like a first year, but you know sooooo more (assuming you are a litigation associate). Of course, the work day probably will have a different pace than clerking because you are no longer in the driver’s seat when it comes to deadlines, etc., and there is more variety in day to day tasks, which is nice. My advice would be to find an area or two in which you can quiety become the firm’s go to “expert” like removal or diversity or injnctions. Good luck!

  3. Anonymous

    Kneeling or standing for the national anthem, can someone explain as I see the issue both ways? Sure there’s a right to protest. But I don’t see how there’s a right to protest at work. I mean you can do it but the vast majority of employers could fire you because they employ you at will. So what’s the difference here? Why are nfl guys complaining about potential fines etc? I mean people watch sports to watch a game, not for anyone else’s political opinion.

    • Anonymous

      Because it’s offensive to many people that anyone, but particularly a person of color who is making millions of dollars for old rich white people, would be forced to stand for a national anthem honoring a country that either willfully or recklessly allows people of color to be discriminated against, harassed, assaulted or even murdered because of the color of their skin.

        • anon

          And he doubled down on their fear this morning, saying that protesters maybe shouldn’t even be in this country.

          Disgusting.

          • AIMS

            Does anyone else feel like they are living through book 5 of Harry Potter and Dolores Umbridge is running Hogwarts and everything just keeps going to sh!t and nothing seems to fix it?

          • Never too many shoes...

            The Umbridge comparison is just so, so good. Well played, AIMS.

          • Rainbow Hair

            Anyone read It Can’t Happen Here? Prescient stuff (though sadly tainted by the author’s prejudices on some fronts).

          • Aunt Jamesina

            Except that this would be Supid Umbridge, à la John Oliver’s Stupid Watergate.

      • Ellen

        I agree. I do NOT think that these atheletes should be kneeling down, unless it is to thank the good Lord that they are making compeletely in$ane amount$ of money for running around on a field for 30 minutes to entertain a bunch of rich old white guys who can afford to buy tickets to watch them running around the field for 30 minutes. What is wrong with singing the national anthem. Personally I do not care if they sing or not, but at least stand there like we did in school when we pledged allegence to the Flag of the USA, and to the republic for which it STANDS, ONE Nation, Under GOD, indivisble, with liberty and justice for all.

        As an attorney, duly admitted and in good standing, I consider it to be a privilege to be an American, b/c when I went overseas, I hated it and could NOT wait to get back here. Is it perfect here? Of course not, but there is NO place that is perfect.

        Nevertheless, we are VERY fortunate to be here in the USA, irrespective of what our politics are. I feel that I would not have been as safe overseas as I am here, and I thank the US Army, and Dad for protecting our freedom over the years.

        I supose there will be nay sayers who will say that some peeople are more successful then others, but that is why we work hard. To get ahead we cannot just sit down and expect the world to support us. Life is tough and as they say, when it is tough, the tough get going. So I encourage the HIVE to stand behind the flag and implore others to respect the flag, for better or worse, its still better then anywhere else. YAY!!!!!

    • Anonymous

      I guess you could say that NFL players like other celebrities have a lot of their work bleed into their private life.
      Imo, the part of a game where the anthem is played has nothing to do with sport, and everything to do with being a citizen of this country.

      • Anonymous

        Both of these are to say that the it’s-their-job viewpoint oversimplifies the matter.

      • Linda from HR

        Just today, I learned that professional sports introduced the national anthem during WWI, because nearly everyone in the stands and on the field was either a veteran or waiting to be deployed, and the anthem was a somber acknowledgement of this. The practice was suspended after the war, and re-introduced during WWII. And for a long time, players weren’t on the field during the anthem, having them come on and stand for the song came into practice roughly 10 years ago (and I wish my memory could back this up but I wasn’t really watching sports 10 years ago). People have also pointed out that the military is a sponsor of the NFL.

        Personally, I’ve never had a problem with the anthem being played, or people being asked to stand, although in high school I was absolutely “that kid” who kept her hands at her side and stayed silent during the pledge, and I have no problem with these players kneeling. Knowing the context of this practice just reinforces where I stand on the issue. Pun completely intended.

        • Linda from HR

          Ah, sorry, disregard a lot of my comment, I’ve found some conflicting information. Turns out the anthem was continued after WWI. I should have verified this before saying anything. But I encourage people to do some research on this, it’s kind of fascinating.

      • VetAnom

        ALSO – prior to the last 10 years, this wasn’t a thing in most sports. Players were not on the field for the national anthem. This is a bit of manufactured patriotism that started to boost military recruitment efforts.

        If you haven’t seen anything on it before, there is actually a not insignificant amount of federal funds paid to the sports leagues in prior years to have them do things like this. There is a history of it from WWII and it popped back up again in full force in the post 911 era.

        • Anthem

          I understand that it was reinstated after 9/11. At the same the Defense Department began paying NFL and having service members on the field. Nothing to do with football in my view except that NFL owners receive taxpayer dollars via Defense Dept. payments.

        • Anonymous

          I really think if the NFL didn’t want to have the players kneeling, then they should have solved it by not having players on the field during the anthem, like it used to be.

      • embees

        Yeah, if the NFL wants to do “feel-good” stories about players giving back to their communities (money/time – building playgrounds, working at food banks, whatever), you’ve already asked them to make sociopolitical statements and do things beyond “play the game” sooooo. This policy, and the rich white guys who approved it, can STFU.

    • AIMS

      I think that when you have a public job where your employer is profiting off of your personality/image/etc., you have a reasonable expectation that you get to express yourself beyond a silly touchdown dance and a sneaker endorsement.

      That said, I don’t know that this is a first amendment issue because the NFL is not the government. On the other hand, it’s pretty clear they are giving in to our bully in chief in the WH. I wish I watched football so I could say I’m going to stop watching in protest but oh well. I think players still can – and should – just not come out for the NA.

      • Thistledown

        I also think it’s significant that they’re opting out of a political act (standing for the anthem). If they were unfurling posters or chanting in protest during the halftime show- sure, it might not be the time or the place. But a requirement to stand to honor a country that thinks so little of you is ridiculous, and kneeling silently is an extremely respectful form of protest.

    • Lana Del Raygun

      a) If we actually wanted no political statements at NFL games, we just wouldn’t have the anthem in the first place, because singing a national anthem and saluting a flag is also a political statement.

      b) Even if they don’t have a constitutional right to protest, it’s a jerk move for anyone to forbid them, and specifically the kind of jerk move that’s bad for society/the country in general by giving even more (political!) power to rich people.

    • Anonymous

      I would be really uncomfortable if my employer required me to participate in a political ritual as part of my job in the first place. I’m also uncomfortable simply accepting “most employees can be fired at will, so how dare they think they have any choices at work” as the status quo.

      • Anonymous

        Yeah, my workplace doesn’t have a morning assembly where they play the national anthem and recite the pledge of allegiance. What if that were a thing everywhere? What about multinational corporations located in the US with employees that aren’t US citizens? There are religious denominations that don’t allow participating in the pledge of allegiance either. It’s a false analogy to the “workplace” because most workplaces are not like this.

    • Anonymous

      I can’t remember where I read this, maybe here, but I found this interesting – taking a knee is evidently a sports thing. When a player is injured on the field, everyone on both sides takes a knee until the player can be evaluated and treated. It’s a sign of respect for the injured player. By taking a knee during the anthem, they’re saying that the country is injured and needs to be cared for.

      I have a really hard time understanding why that’s a controversial statement. Black men ARE killed and imprisoned at alarmingly high rates. Regardless of what you think the cause of that problem is, it’s a problem, full stop. And it’s a problem that hasn’t seen much if any improvement. I think it’s especially powerful for very rich black men to take a knee – even though we made it, there are a lot of people who haven’t, and we see you. You are part of this country and we will continue to take a knee until you receive the help you need.

      • AIMS

        But I don’t think that everyone acknowledges the problem. It’s like global warming and everything else now – there are statistics and then there are reasoned disagreements about what they mean/why they are what they are and then a vocal 30-40% of the population that believes it’s just all made up, exaggerated by the media and/or a hoax.

    • Anonymous

      I think whoever said — shut up and dribble — had the right idea. I’m there to watch a game, you’re there to play the game, so play it and save your political activism or stance against slavery or whatever your issue of the day is for when the 3 hour game is over.

      • embees

        *blinks* so I assume you’re also against the human interest stories the NFL/networks likes to run about players personal lives before/during/after games? The charities they contribute to and talk about as part of the team/league media days? The mere presence of the anthem and related ceremonies (that are being paid for with our tax dollars, btw) before the game? The themed months like cancer awareness and military support? C’mon, the NFL has already made a choice to profit off of players personal lives and engage in social/political commentary and actions. “Sorry” (not sorry) if that sometimes means having to deal with reality, not just their carefully-crafted PR blitz campaigns.

      • nasty woman

        Oh, I didn’t realize that kneeling during the anthem was interfering with game play time.

        But now that you’ve explained it this way– that you’re simply the customer not getting what she’s bargained for and not actually a racist– it all makes sense.

        /sarc

      • Linda from HR

        “against slavery or whatever”

        Come on.

        You’re entitled to your opinion, but you seem awfully out of touch with what’s going on these days. I’d recommend reading up on what these men are protesting before you make a big stink about it. They’re kneeling for one minute before the game starts, they’re not disrupting the game, but they are succeeding in getting your attention.

      • Pretty Primadonna

        “Just shut up and play!” *rolls eyes*

        Your privilege is showing. This is a platform that they are choosing to utilize it as they see fit. I bet you also think we should all just “get over” the Holocaust and slavery, too.

    • Anonymous

      Alright so let me get this straight. You don’t like being reminded of the fact that racism and inequality are big problems in this country. You just want to kick back and have a good time. Watching black men injure each other for your amusement. When they try to tell you something about how they feel, to show their humanity, your response is to silence them and demand that they just get back to entertaining you. That about sum it up for you?

      Separately, I find it intensely disturbing to refer to a demand for equality as “political.” Equality isn’t political. It’s not controversial. You just don’t care.

      • Anonymous

        Is someone forcing them to play? If they don’t want to play a sport with injury risk or any sport, they can walk away. If they all walk away that’s fine too, we’ll watch something else. No I don’t care about their feelings because they’re there to do a job. Same way I don’t care about the movie ticket takers feelings or the CEO’s feelings.

        • nasty woman

          Yes, the job of “please me, please me, you’re here to make me happy, b*tch, don’t you dare make me *think* or make me feel the least bit of discomfort.” You’re just a terrible person. Really, there is no redeeming feature about you. People are not objects. Human rights are important. Generally, people who “do not care” about other people’s feelings are called sociopaths or psychopaths. Seek help, and maybe refrain from interacting with other people if you cannot refrain from harming them.

          On another note, quit blasting your crap all over this board. I for one am getting a little tired of the relentless sh*t -stirring you’re doing here. Why not just do your job instead of derailing every day with some hateful comment? Seriously, what do you get out of this?

        • Anonymama

          It’s not about feelings, it’s about equal treatment under the law, which is one of the founding principles of this country, even if we haven’t always lived up to it. The players are on the field to do their job, but even just from a cold-hearted capitalist perspective, it is in their own best interests to use the platform they have attained to shape their personal brand in the way that they wish to.

        • Senior Attorney

          I care about the movie ticket taker’s feelings about their peers being killed by the police for no reason. So, for example, I’d be fine with them wearing an armband or pin or whatever at work. And I’d care about the CEO’s feelings about that, too, if it happened to them.

          • Lana Del Raygun

            Yes, and I care about everyone’s feelings enough that I don’t want anyone to be *compelled by their employer* to make a political statement, which is what saluting the flag is.

    • Anon

      Forcing someone to make a display of political speech is horrifying. But legal after Citizens United.

        • Anon

          You misunderstand. Under Citizens United, it’s legal for the NFL, a corporation, to force political speech by its employees. I find that horrifying.

          • Anonymous

            Sure, and my BigLaw firm strongly appealed to us many times to write checks to HRC’s campaign. Had us come to meetings. Noted who was there and who gave. Pls stop being shocked and horrified.

          • Anonymous

            What does Citizens United have to do with the anthem? I’m really struggling here.

          • Anonymous

            you have it the wrong way around. Just b/c your firm did it, doesn’t make it normal and tolerable to infringe on employee’s rights. They were wrong and so is the NFL.

          • Linda from HR

            Just because you’re used to something doesn’t mean other people aren’t allowed to be horrified by it.

    • anon

      Painting this as a simple employment-at-will item is oversimplifying it. This is a fairly limited market for a limited period of time – it’s not easy for these players to just go and find another job replacing this one. And I agree with the other commenters that the NFL somewhat manufactured this controversy – players didn’t use to be on the field during the anthem and a huge amount of funds are pumped into the NFL for their patriotism displays. I’m not crying out that it’s illegal or violates their rights, but it can still be sh!tty of an employer to require.

      • Anonymama

        Yeah, the NFL took tons of money from the US government to put on these patriotic displays. Yes, the US Army spent money to put those veterans on the field for all those flag-waving occasions. It’s so gross. And if the NFL had actually tried to address the actual issues the players were trying to call attention to, like the NBA did, they wouldn’t be having many of the problems they are having. (Personally all the CTE stuff and perception of the owners as terrible people is what turned me off the NFL)

    • Cc

      The difference here is they are actually being forced to make a political statement. For example, if right before the snap tom Brady ripped off his uniform and has a political T-shirt on, I think your point would be valid. Hey it’s the middle of the game! But here the teams are making all the players participate in a political demonstration. So they players taking a knee are less protesting and more refusing to participate in a political process that is unrelated to their job as a football player.

      Originally Colin kapernick sat during the anthem. Nate Boyer, a former green beret, asked to talk to him about and what the anthem means for veterans. They came to the idea of taking a knee, because that’s what people do at the graves of soldiers. He said Colin was very receptive to that, and asked if he would kneel with them. Nate said he couldn’t kneel – he will always stand with his hand on his heart, but that he would stand next to him and with him as he kneeled.

      The whole thing is a manufactured controversy by the right and trump. I think it’s too test just how far we have come from truly valuing the ideals of free speech. Patriotism means trite worship and maga now. (Isn’t weird how I never hear gasps of horror from the right when people wear the flag in different ways like bikinis and golf shirts?)

      • Anonymous

        I did not know this information about the conversation with the vet. Thank you for sharing and enlightening me and others. (this is not sarcastic, this is genuine. thank you.)

      • chrisonli

        This ^^^

        Although I am not a lawyer, I am quite sure that NFL players operate under a contract and are not “at will” employees.

        Last point – Per Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles Times, Jed York of the SF 49ers (who abstained from the vote) said the Niners will halt concession sales during the anthem. That’s another way to honor the anthem and the flag.

      • Anonymous

        I don’t agree with the NFL’s decision on this. I think players should be allowed to kneel. But the NFL has said that players will be allowed to stay in the locker room during the national anthem. They are not being forced to take part in a political statement.

        I would love it if ALL the players collectively decided to stay in the locker room during the anthem. (The Steelers did that as a team for one game in 2017.) As others have pointed out, that’s the way it was before the DOD paid the NFL millions of dollars anyways.

        • Anonymous

          This. They should all take the option to remain in the locker room. They can stand and sing in there if they want to.

    • Aunt Jamesina

      I’m a former high school teacher, and I would stand quietly with my hands behind my back during the Pledge of Allegiance since it’s against my personal convictions. I wouldn’t submit to what I saw as an archaic, and I think NFL players’ public and private personas are so entwined that there’s no appreciable difference between who they are on the field and who they are in their private lives. In the same way that we should expect domestic abusers to be fired from the NFL, we should allow for political dissent. And what the f*ck does the anthem have to do with a football game?

      • Aunt Jamesina

        *I wouldn’t submit to what I saw as an archaic and meaningless yet mandatory gesture of nationalism

  4. Appellate attorney chiming in

    I saw the post late yesterday from the woman who aspired to be an appellate attorney. I’m an extremely happy appellate attorney. The greatest number of such jobs are in DC — Civil Appellate at DOJ, Criminal Appellate at DOJ, as well as being an appellate lawyer in the general counsel’s office of an agency (SEC, FTC, CFPB, EEOC, FCC all have appellate counsel positions, and I’m sure there are lots of others).

    If you’re outside of DC, you would want to look at US Attorney’s offices, some of which have appeals divisions. Also look at your state AG’s office, although state jobs are generally much less compensated than federal (my friend in the Mass AG’s office doing appeals work is making $50K). In federal jobs, you can make as much as GS-15, Step 10 (so about $163 K currently). Also look at your state solicitor general’s office (California has a great one with a large appeals division).

    Downside with these jobs is that they are extremely competitive. They are a “unicorn” job in terms of great work/life balance and intellectual rigor, so people tend to stay for a long time. You’re best positioned if you graduated high in your class and have an appeals clerkship (for DOJ and other fed agency jobs, ideally a federal appeals clerkship). But if you don’t, I would network like crazy and try to showcase your writing skills in other ways (journal, publication, etc.). A call from your judge will also go a long way — don’t be shy to ask.

    That’s off the top of my head, happy to answer other questions. I truly love my job and am so thankful to have it.

    • Anonymous

      +1M to “extremely competitive”

      When I was in DC, I worked down the hall and was considered to be on the short bus, intellectually, by my BigLaw firm’s appellate attorneys. No SCOTUS clerkship, no 2d/3d/DC Circuit level clerkship, no HYS law / HYP undergrad. It was really mind-warping to have finally become the dump jock / bimbo cheerleader stereotype in this crowd.

      The weird thing is that I read things like scotusblog like a fiend now and still find it really interesting.

      • Anonymous

        Please don’t so casually throw around the term “on the short bus.” It’s offensive.

        • Anonymous

          Wow, I totally agree. I had no idea what that meant… until now.

          What an awful thing to say.

          • Anonymous

            I’ve seen this — I was housed next to my firm’s appellate section, also in DC. They all, regardless of political stripes, looked down their nose at my and my mere practicing commercial corporate-type law for actual paying clients (they compete to do a lot of high-profile pro-bono work). It was a bad feeling. Indescribably bad. They talked like I was deaf, so I know what they think of staff, community college attendees, state U graduates, etc. They are either partners or professors now or have moved to things like OLC.

      • Bimbo Cheerleader

        Also this bimbo is a nuclear engineer/patent attorney. Not nearly as offensive as the bus term, but please rethink how you are phrasing things.

    • appellate hopes

      Thank you so much for the reply! (I’m the OP). It’s nice to hear that you are enjoying your career, and I suspected that DC might be the place to be.

      Any thoughts re: appellate practices at large law firms or boutiques? I think that government is where I ultimately want to be (would love to work for a state SG), but as you’ve pointed out, those jobs can be quite challenging to land. I have some of the right stats, but I think my peers are all really gunning for the same sorts of positions, and I know that it is competitive. Also, the exposure I’ve gotten so far from my clerkship has made me realize that I’m not fit for criminal work (or at least, I don’t think I’d enjoy working exclusively on criminal appeals) which contracts my opportunities further. Any advice? Are there things I should be looking for in an appellate practice?

      • Anonymous

        Also, don’t forget about state-level appellate practices. I have a handful of friends from law school that are solely appellate practitioners (either at big law firms or litigation boutiques) that have a mixed practice of doing state and federal appeals. So much meaningful work goes on at the state level (and obviously in all the federal circuits), you definitely do not have to be in DC to be an appellate attorney.

      • Anonymous

        All I can speak to is the appellate practice at my firm. It is filled with supreme court clerks, and some science PhDs because we do a lot of IP appeals. The people in my particular firm’s practice are incredibly nice and definitely don’t look down on the rest of us mere litigators (at least not outwardly). The group is very tight-knit, though, so I would say be extra careful that you mesh well with the others in your practice group.

      • Appellate attorney chiming in

        I’m happy to help! Prior to joining the government, I worked in Big Law for 5 years at two different firms. If you decide to go the firm route, know that you won’t get to do exclusively appellate — not even close (unless you’re a SCOTUS clerk, but even they have to do trial work once in a while). Firms don’t get the big bucks for appellate cases — some of it is pro bono and even the paying clients pay an iota of what would be paid for a complex commercial lit case.

        At my first firm, I had a very unusual experience in that I did probably 70% appellate, which was amazing. At my second firm, which is known as an appellate “powerhouse”, only the SCOTUS clerks did mostly appellate. For the rest of us minions, it was closer to 30% and that was frankly if we were lucky. And if you had a state clerkship, the road was even tougher (there is a huge bias for federal clerks in appellate practices at top firms).

        So that’s my warning about private practice. Unless you’re in exclusively an appellate boutique, appellate attorneys at larger firms will spend the majority of their time doing non-appellate work because appellate cases are not revenue generating for the firm.

        With that said, since you’re starting out, I would definitely look at firms with large appellate practices. Ask them how many associates they have, what percentage of time associates in that group do strictly appellate work, and whether there are opportunities to argue pro bono appeals. You can always do the firm thing for 2 years and then explore government opportunities.

        Finally, I agree with some others that some of the appellate folks are insufferable and full of themselves. In my experience, this was mostly the SCOTUS clerks. But don’t paint us all with the same brush! I work with a group of super smart folks (HYS, DC Circuit clerks, etc.) who are also really nice and down to earth people.

        • OP

          Thanks so much for the advice. The recurring “insufferable and full of themselves” is an interesting contrast with your point that appellate practices aren’t real moneymakers for firms. Glad to know a 2-year stint won’t disqualify me from government jobs.

          • Appellate attorney chiming in

            Most of my colleagues worked in private practice anywhere from 3-6 years before landing this job. I came to my job as a 7th year, after two fed clerkships and 5 years at law firms. 2 years is nothing, and certainly not a disqualifier.

            If you go the firm route, make sure you get as much brief writing experience as you can (since it’s doubtful you would get argument experience). Best of luck.

    • Anonymous

      I am also an appellate attorney and LOVE my job. I have worked for my state appellate public defender office for over 10 years. We do approximately 95% of the criminal appeals in our state. Within my first year here I had already filed approximately 20 briefs and completed an oral argument in our state supreme court. It is the best way to get experience in my opinion. If you don’t want to do criminal defense, our opponents represent the state in criminal appeals and work for the Attorney General’s office. Those jobs seem more political, at least in my state (our AG is elected–not sure if that is the case everywhere.)

  5. AnonForThis

    Has anyone tried the IdealProtein diet?

    I’m in serious need of dramatic weight loss relatively quickly, or my next move is gastric bypass. I’ve tried programs like Weight Watchers in the past, but the counting of points all day stressed me out. I like the idea of having ready-to-go food at hand and no counting, but it is expensive, so I’d love to hear from real people.

    • Anonymous

      My grandparents really like it, and it’s the only thing that’s worked for my poor grandfather.

    • Anonymous

      I was in the same boat of you and tried NutriSystem briefly but now I’m really happy with WW. (I did not like the good on Nutri System and would then stress about meals I had to eat out for work etc.) The weight is coming off slow, so that might not work for you. But I really do feel like I’m changing the way I think about food. And in the beginning it was a lot of counting, but now I hardly ever have to because I just know. I meal prep my food for the week and generally eat the same lunches and dinner every day (I’ve also been doing intermittent fasting so skipping breakfast). But now that I have a routine down, I don’t have to count all day. I do know some people who have been really successful with Ideal Protein but then gained some of the weight back when they stopped.

    • anon

      I have never tried it but I witnessed a friend lose a ton of weight by sticking to their strict guidelines. HOWEVER, she gained it all right back the minute she stopped it. It does not promote a lifestyle change and they just want you to pay for their expensive pre-packaged snacks forever. Their guidelines also cut out healthy, nutritious foods, which rubs me the wrong way.

    • anon a mouse

      Not familiar with IP, but WW recently changed and a number of foods that are high-protein are now “free,” like skinless chicken breast, salmon and eggs. I think you could pretty easily come up with a diet that would minimize your counting but keep you satisfied.

    • Idea

      DASH diet recommendation.
      Focused on blood pressure but people tend to lose a lot, quickly, esp. Sticking to Marla Heller’s gold book, DASH diet for weight loss.

    • Anon

      I know several people who have done the Ideal Protein diet. They lost a significant amount of weight but the diet seemed extreme and unsustainable. They really were eating very little food each day. They also all gained back some of the weight they lost.

  6. Post-Interview Anxiety

    Just finished second round of interviews via video-conference. All I can think about is what I should have done/said differently and I feel like such a dud. I nailed the first round; this round just felt off to me. So – how do you control post-interview anxiety? The great thing is that I’m leaving for one week of vacation tomorrow – I’m going to focus on that. Also, I think I’m shamelessly fishing for empathy from internet strangers.

    • Walnut

      This was me a few months ago. First round, awesome, second round I was really flat and it just wasn’t great. I got a callback for the in person, where I had the opportunity for a do over with my second round interviewer. I saved my best responses for that interviewers questions And eventually landed the job.

    • AnonZ

      Are you the new grad I interviewed via video conference yesterday who had beer bottles and solo cups on the desk/table behind her?? If not – congrats! No matter what else happened, you did better than at least one person.

    • Anon

      Interviewing is hard and stressful. There is only so much of an interview that you can control. If you did what you thought you needed to do to prepare, that’s really all you can do! Sometimes you just don’t have “chemistry” with the interviewers or are having an off day. You also never know how other people perceived the interview. I’ve had interviews that I thought went poorly but it turned out the interviewers thought it went well. So, you never know! It’s in their hands now so enjoy your vacation!

    • Aunt Jamesina

      I’ve felt like this after every single interview I’ve had in my life and I’m still standing :-)

  7. Adjunct Question

    Someone posted the other day about considering academia from a legal HR background. I’m coming at it a little different, but maybe not so differently. I have a law degree from HYS but didn’t clerk. Live in a flyover town and work in an area of law that is offered as a class at many schools but not at either local law school. I’d like to convince them to let me adjunct (knowing it’s low pay and lots of work).

    Has anyone done this? Did you put together a syllabus to present? I think the first step is that this fall I want to present at least one CLE and maybe try to publish something in a local bar journal. But my real goal is to adjunct. Am I crazy? Tips?

    • OP

      Also would it be bad to use another class’s syllabus as an example of the type of course I’d like to put together to pitch, since I’d rather not do huge amounts of work up front if I’m going to get a no?

      • S

        Again – I’d just have a less formal discussion before giving any syllabus. I don’t think another classes syllabus is that helpful.

      • anon

        Definitely don’t use someone else’s syllabus–just call and say “hey, I am qualified in this area and would love to adjunct, are you open to this.” They will ask you for further info if interested

      • Nesprin

        Syllabi are work, thus using someone else’s syllabus is plagarism. Don’t do this.

    • S

      Not crazy at all. Honestly – I’d just call and ask them. As you noted, adjunct pay is extremely low so schools can sometimes be very casual about setting up adjunct teaching.

    • Anon

      One option would be to team teach with a colleague. It would reduce the work and might make it more attractive to the law school. I had lots of adjunct classes that were taught by 2-3 practicing lawyers.

    • anonanon

      Definitely call them. I teach adjunct law in a smaller place and find it really incredibly rewarding. The school where I teach likes to have adjuncts – it connects the school to the community and vice versa. There is absolutely no harm in reaching out, sometimes they have problems finding who wants to do it!

      • Anonymous

        +1. I am an adjunct. I am an alumna, so the school reached out to me (a month before the semester started, woo hoo!), but they LOVE having a well rounded roster of adjuncts. Definitely call them!

    • Nesprin

      I adjunct in bio. You should get in touch with all local college’s department chairs and ask if they have any teaching openings. Expect to repeat this. Academic hiring almost always requires a CV, cover letter with courses you’re prepared to teach, and teaching philosophy and occasionally asks for a diversity statement- and the sooner you get these in your chair’s hands, the better. Syllabi, teaching evals etc only get sent in if and when asked for.

  8. Anonymous

    You guys, I have what I guess is a good problem. I’ve been struggling to lose weight for a couple months – I’ve been doing everything right but the scale moved like… 5 lbs… in 3 months of big changes. Fwiw I have to lose about 30 lbs to get to a healthy weight. I know my body takes a while to adapt so I’ve been trying to stay positive and be patient and not overeat out of disappointment. I was really hoping I’d lose a bit more before my vacation (starting tomorrow).

    Well this week I’ve lost almost a pound a day. I’ve been eating and exercising normally so I guess something finally shook itself loose? My issue is – I don’t want to stop the progress! I was definitely planning to have not-diet foods (and, ahem, drinks) on vacation. But UGH I worked so hard for so long to get a little movement, I don’t want to sabotage that now! I guess this is a good reminder that they’re called lifestyle changes for a reason?

    • Anonymous

      Maybe you could exercise daily on your vacation? And maybe you’ll be walking quite a bit on your vacation, so that helps too? And keep drinking lots of water?

      Congrats on your good work. And yes….. enjoy food on your vacation. Just pick one meal a day to be worry free, and be a bit more careful on the other “throw away” meals.

    • lea m

      Sounds like you had a whoosh. If you didn’t exercise before, your body may have held on to water weight to assist with muscle repair until it got more conditioned. Can you exercise the 80/20 rule? Eat healthy 80 percent of the time on vacation, then enjoy some drinks at night? Try to go for walks during the day or exercise (BBG is only 28 minutes but HIIT so it’s pretty effective). Also, if you eat at maintenance calories, you give yourself room to sensibly indulge, and you only stall your progress by a week which isn’t long when you consider that you’re making changes for life.

      • mascot

        The 80/20 idea is a good one. And even then, the 80 doesn’t have to be perfect for a week, it just has to be a better choice. Want to have a drink at lunch? Go for it, but maybe have a glass of bubbles instead of a pina colada. Or, tell yourself that one meal of the day needs to be predominantly vegetables/lean protein. It can be the fresh grilled catch of the day over some greens, which is probably better than that boring grilled chicken salad you eat for lunch during the work week. And enjoy your 20% and make it deliberate.

    • Hi, are you me?

      I hate to be annoying, but I had the same struggle until trying intermittent fasting. I now only eat between noon and eight pm. Disregard if it doesn’t work for you! :-)

  9. Telecommute?

    Boss is going to have us vote (anonymously, I assume) on whether we want to convert to a telecommuting office (i.e. work from home). Most of my coworkers have kids and I think they would want the flexibility to telecommute. But I am the weird one and would rather work in our office building. I get distracted too easily at home, and I like having the separation between work and home. Also, being in an office environment seems to promote more collaboration, I think. And if I work from home I would be less visible to Upper Management (who do not telecommute), which might affect my advancement opportunities. I don’t have kids, so having a flexible schedule isn’t important to me right now. But we are TTC, and being able to work from home may be helpful when I am pregnant and have a kid. Help me decide!

    • anomanom

      Are you talking 100% telecommute, or option? If 100%, and you have reservations, vote no. Knowing that it may happen anyway, possibly look into finding a co-work space and potentially raise with management if there would be any willingness to reimburse for office space?

    • Anonymous

      Omg do it. We are not officially WFH but my boss let me regularly telecommute when I was pregnant and after giving birth and it has been a lifesaver. When you are 38 weeks pregnant you will want to nap in the middle of the day which is much easier to do at home. When you have kids the time saved commuting will be nice and you may be able to get away with paying less for childcare (to be clear, you need childcare when you’re supposed to be working but if I were in the home I’d be comfortable with a teenage babysitter because I’d be there in case of emergency. If I were working outside the home, I’d want an experienced, adult nanny that costs a lot more and is harder to find, at least in my town.)
      If you want to work in an office you can always go to a coworking space.

    • Lilliet

      Does it have to be 100% telecommute? I feel like that only works well in very niche offices. Maybe there are other offices for your company that have done this, so you all know it would be fine. But if not, I would campaign for a teleworking policy. Maybe you downsize the office to have enough meeting room space for all employees when you do an all-hands type thing, but then only a few “hot desks.” Or keep the current office but allow 1-2 teleworking days a week?

    • Anonymous

      I’d vote against it, if it meant 100% — meaning, the office was going to be closed and everyone now works from home. As an option, I’d vote for it.

      I have a job where I am free to work at home or wherever, but, like you — I like going to an office. And frankly, that connection with coworkers (which is really important in the type of work I do) is real.

  10. anon

    Botox questions — sorry for the redundancy, but I couldn’t find any threads which completely addressed these.
    (1) Any horror stories about why Botox is a terrible idea? (2) Any recommendations for a derm to do Botox in the DC area? TIA.

    • Anonymous

      So many people do it, and yet I’ve heard no horror stories. My main concern is that I read a study about how having botox potentially interferes with empathy- because we ‘mirror’ other people’s emotions via microexpressions, and our microexpressions influence the emotions we feel. Kind of a random concern, but it’s the main thing that would make me hesitant. Have you looked at other solutions like lasers, fillers, etc?

    • anon

      My ditzy aunt is an RN and is certified to administer Botox and fillers. She works for a big fancy salon in Scottsdale. In one of our conversations, she was chatting away and confided to me: “I’ve had the worst week. I administered Botox to a new client and she complained to my boss. I have no idea why she was so upset. Her eyebrows were just a bit uneven. You could hardly even tell unless she smiled. It’s not like it’s permanent anyways. It will wear off in a few weeks–besides, she should have told me that she was getting married before I did the injection.”

      No Botox for me, thanks.

      • Anonymous

        In my state only doctors administer it. Have been getting it 10 years. No issues at all. Think I had a tiny bruise once.

      • Anonymous

        Generally, those that I know in the medical profession (doctors) advise to stay away from having mid-levels (like RNs) get involved in your healthcare. I have never been to an office where anyone other than a doctor administers botox. No problems.

    • MJ

      I know someone who did Botox and it migrated to their jaw and caused migraines and years of toxicity. It can happen. Read the side effects.

    • Anonymous

      If you have (or are likely to have, based on genetics) heavy eyelids, be careful. After about 6 to 7 years of semiannual Botox for my forehead, I have no lines there but look tired because my brows and lids sit lower than they did. I’ve decided to stop Botox for now.

    • Anonymous

      I get Botox as a medical treatment for migraines, administered by a neurologist, so my experience may be totally different. But I find it verrrrrrrrrrry painful. And I think, given the whole migraine thing, I have a pretty high pain tolerance. That being said, when the time comes I will totally consider getting it done for cosmetic purposes. Also, I have a family member who is really into cosmetic dermatology with a lot of money to spend on it and she swears by Dysport instead of Botox. Apparently it lasts longer.

      • Anonymous

        I also find botox adminstered for migraines to be very painful. Is it less painful when it’s administered for cosmetic reasons?

      • Anon

        I used to get Botox 2-3 times a year and stopped. I really liked the results for the most part. I REALLY liked the relaxed feeling that comes with not being able to frown. It was very zen like and I loved that feeling. I would say I was hooked on it (yes, hooked on a feeling)

        Unfortunately, my regular derm stopped offering it for $300, so I ended up going to a well known cosmetic derm a couple of times, and she charged $500, and I just started feeling like it was dumb so I stopped. I think if it were still $300 and easy to tie into my regular derm appointments I’d still be doing it.

        All of my injections stung, but one time it was so painful I teared up. I had to take a long pause beteeen injections. I was embarrassed and felt I needed to explain that I wasn’t usually such a baby, and asked if there was anything different about this batch of Botox. The derm said no and told me that sometimes you hit a nerve just right and it causes more pain than usual. I thought that might have been what it was, but then the other side hurt just as much. I have no idea why. It wasn’t my last time having Botox, and the next time I went it was back to just the usual stinging. Weird experience.

        But anyway, if it was related to hitting a nerve, and if that is what they aim for in using Botox for migraines, I can see it being a painful experience.

  11. Acorna

    I came across this quote in some article and was intrigued by the idea of a zucchini sauce for pasta. How would you make something like this? Cook zucchini with a little water until it turns to mush, add a little water if necessary and bouillon, and puree?

    Here is the quote: “A friend also convinced her to slow-cook zucchini for four to five hours, until it breaks down into a “filthy, sexy mush” to toss with pasta. “The sauce gets so creamy you’d swear there’s tons of butter and oil in it, but it’s just zucchini, water and a little bouillon,” Markle says.”

    • Anonymous

      That sounds awful. If you want a creamy pureed vegetable sauce, use butternut squash or eggplant.

    • Anonymous

      Four or five hours sounds like a crockpot or french oven to me. Doubt you’d even need to puree after all that, unless you’re looking for very smooth.

      • Acorna

        The hours in the slow cooker thing seemed kind of excessive to me. Surely it would turn to mush before an hour is up, right?

        • Anonymous

          It would get mushy, yes. But if you’re going for creamy then you’d need to break down the fibers in the vegetable. Otherwise you’ll have textured mush which… doesn’t sound like an appetizing “sauce.” Even tomato sauce cooks for several hours on the stove, and I’d think of tomatoes as less fibrous than zucchini.

          If I were going to try this, I’d put ~1/2 to 1 cup chicken bone broth (creamier texture plus it has protein), like 8 cloves of garlic, and a shallot in the crock pot with the zucchini. Probably don’t need to add salt depending on the bone broth. I’d try without pepper first and see how the color comes out… I’d be afraid that pepper would turn it gray like it does with eggs. Maybe peel the zucchini first?

    • anon a mouse

      That quote sounds like it was written by someone who swears that cauliflower rice is just as good as regular rice, or vegan cheese is totally the same as regular cheese.

          • Rainbow Hair

            I love cauliflower rice but yeah, it ain’t rice, it’s a way to eat cauliflower!
            Also love tofu, but it ain’t meat.
            Fake cheese can bite me.

        • Anonymous

          Cauliflower rice still tastes like cauliflower. Which I like! But calling it rice is a cruel, cruel lie.

        • Anon

          Question about therapy. I’m struggling to articulate it in a tl/dr so I’ll give you a bit of the back story. I currently think I need to see a therapist about my infertility, failed IVF, and planning what I want to do going forward. That said, I recognize that grief in such a situation is normal. My MO with prior life events is to repress everything, convince myself and everyone else I’m fine until I’m not and then have anxiety attacks and finally go to therapy to deal with it. I’m trying to avoid repeating that cycle.

          So I was super upset last week with the failed IVF result and found a therapist and made an appt for next week. In the meantime, I’m feeling a lot better. I’m going away for this holiday weekend and the goal was to put a lot of this behind me and distract myself for awhile. I feel like the weekend will be restorative and I’ll be in a better place, come back, go to therapy, and it will just rip all of those scabs off and undue the healing I have already done.

          So, how do you balance moving forward from something while still doing therapy to correctly process it?

          • Anon

            And the re-post is in mod. If you have advice, please come back later to give it. Thanks.

          • Anonymous

            Sounds like the perfect question for Day 1 with your therapist.

            Well done on scheduling an appointment now, rather than waiting for a panic attack. Working on coping strategies is better when you are not at a nadir. I think you know that a good weekend will not be enough to deal with this long term, so your direction is the right one.

            I’m sorry to hear about your struggles. Hang in there.

            I have a family member that has terrible anxiety and similar to you, he progresses into panic attacks when he plummets. But he continually cancels appointments to see a psychiatrist/therapist for the first time, because he “feels better”……. When you are feeling a bit better, and more open to making behavioral changes is actually the best time to see someone. But yet, it is the easiest time to run….

        • Shopaholic

          I also love cauliflower rice! To be honest, when it’s well-seasoned and mixed into whatever I’m eating, I don’t really notice the difference.

      • Torin

        Ha! I’m an omnivore who likes experimenting with vegan food just cause. I once made “coconut bacon” which was a thing that was extremely delicious but was in no wise bacon or bacon adjacent. SO was like, this is delicious but let’s not call it bacon. That’s just a lie. Vegan food is it’s own thing! And it can be very delicious! Trying to pretend it’s a meat substitute is what turns people off.

    • Never too many shoes...

      I picture that sauce on “zoodles though and then remember that video of the guy making vegan cucumber pizza that is just, well, cucumbers.

    • Anonymous

      I mean it’s still going to taste like zucchini, no? I kind of love it when people say silly things like – you’d swear this was the delicious full fat, animal product version! – lol no the only people who think that have been vegan so long they don’t remember the real thing.

      • Acorna

        It probably would taste like zucchini since it’s made of zucchini, but that wouldn’t be a problem for me since I like zucchini. It would be nice to have something new to do with all that zucchini I’ve grown later on in the summer.

        • Anonymous

          Hmm I wonder how this would freeze. I’d expect it to be a little watery but then again I freeze mushroom soup all the time and it’s fine.

          Ooo maybe zucchini soup? Perhaps served chilled? Cucumber soup is a thing, isn’t it?

    • Marilla

      That would NOT be delicious on its own. Cooking zucchini with lots of olive oil and garlic or other seasoning to turn into a sauce – yes, definitely. But just zucchini, water, and salt? Nope.

      • Rainbow Hair

        Yeah where’s the garlic?! Maybe roast some garlic and blend it in? And a handful of parmesan?

    • Torin

      Butternut squash puree or pumpkin as a base for pasta sauce is delicious. Zucchini though? I’m skeptical.

    • Anonymous

      I make a lot of ratatouille type dishes so yes cooking zucchini for a very long time over low heat will make it mushy and then you could puree it and make it into a sauce. It’s really not that different from tomato sauce if you think about it! I would say if you’re doing this you should skin it or use a food mill to get the skins out before mixing with pasta and I’m not sure if you mean bouillon cubes, but I wouldn’t use that, maybe just a bit of water or veggie broth to thin it out if it was too thick, but probably I’d just leave as is and then use some pasta water to make everything the right saucy consistency.

      Not sure why people think this is weird or gross. I had an ex boyfriend who hated tomatoes and I made a pasta sauce with beets and carrots that was delicious when we dated. More work than making a regular tomato sauce but not gross or weird.

      • Anona

        I didn’t think it would be so controversial here, a s!te where people talk about things like Whole 30 and make chia pudding on the reg. I might try a few variations and report back… :)

      • Anonymous

        I learned when I was studying in Italy that Italians make tomato-like sauces from other vegetables all the time. I distinctly remember a delicious beet sauce as well as a red bell pepper sauce, as well as some very bright green thick herb sauces I’ve never been able to recreate.

      • Aunt Jamesina

        I think the balance of acid and sweetness in tomatoes (and the sweetness in beets and carrots) are what make them into nice sauces. I LOVE vegetables (though I also love nearly all food with gusto), but zucchini is mild in flavor and has a lot of water, so it needs some char, salt, acid and/or fat to turn it into something more complex than watery mush.

    • Anonymous

      I’ve started cooking zucchini low and slow, and it does become totally delicious and creamy, though I’ve never thought to use it as a sauce! I’d definitely start by carmelizing some onions, and I’d cook it all in olive oil, with some garlic.

  12. Linda from HR

    Oooh, gorgeous color, machine washable, and on sale for under a hundred? I am so, so tempted . . .

    By the way, I’m wearing the red top that was advertised on here maybe two weeks ago, that I rushed out to try on at lunch. I like it so far.

  13. Anon

    Question about therapy. I’m struggling to articulate it in a tl/dr so I’ll give you a bit of the back story. I currently think I need to see a therapist about my infertility, failed IVF, and planning what I want to do going forward. That said, I recognize that grief in such a situation is normal. My MO with prior life events is to repress everything, convince myself and everyone else I’m fine until I’m not and then have anxiety attacks and finally go to therapy to deal with it. I’m trying to avoid repeating that cycle.

    So I was super upset last week with the failed IVF result and found a therapist and made an appt for next week. In the meantime, I’m feeling a lot better. I’m going away for this holiday weekend and the goal was to put a lot of this behind me and distract myself for awhile. I feel like the weekend will be restorative and I’ll be in a better place, come back, go to therapy, and it will just rip all of those scabs off and undue the healing I have already done.

    So, how do you balance moving forward from something while still doing therapy to correctly process it?

    • AnonZ

      My suggestion would be to try to move away from thinking about therapy and healing as a short-term, linear process. It will be good for you to get some distance and restoration this weekend, but having a relaxing weekend isn’t going to do anything to help you avoid the “fine until I’m not” cycle that you mention. And, as an expert in repressing emotion myself, I can tell you that your thought pattern of, “If I revisit that negative emotion again, it will upset me and I’ll regress” is definitely more akin to repression than true healing. I think therapy will be super helpful in answering your exact question – helping you navigate being genuinely sad about something and not denying that feeling.

      The only other thing I would mention is that if I were you, I would focus more on processing your grief and frustration, and less on “moving forward”. It sounds like you are an excellent forward mover! Do not be afraid that taking some time to sit with your grief and sadness and frustration will result in you getting stuck or wallowing in it forever. You have shown many, many times that you can move forward in the face of adversity – you will not suddenly collapse and never recover if you take some time to process this. Good luck!!

  14. Teeth whitening

    I’m 48 and late to the teeth whitening game. I naturally had surprisingly white teeth but now feel like they look dingy. Should I commit to store-bought white strips (had them before but never used a full box) or have it professionally done? Anything I should avoid?

    thanks!

    • Housecounsel

      I’d have it professionally done. It’s not that expensive and Groupons are often available. Prepare for some serious sensitivity after!

    • whitening strips

      My dentist said that you’re better off doing the Crest whitening strips. My friend got it done at the dentist and had so much tooth pain she said it was unbearable.

      There are professional level ones you can get at CVS or Amazon.

      • MJ

        Cosign the excessive tooth pain. I did Zoom and while it didn’t hurt when it was happening, just a few hours later, even the feeling of my breath passing through my mouth was causing absolute agony. I literally curled in the fetal position, tried not to have any air go through my mouth (not even a thing I’ve ever had to even think of, my whole life) and huddled down with my labradoodle for four hours (after I took a bunch of Advil). Never, ever again. It was absolutely excruciating, and the worst pain I’ve had in my life except when my appendix ruptured.

        • Housecounsel

          I said “sensitivity.” That was like calling labor pain “discomfort.” MJ described it accurately.

        • FP

          I did Zo0m about 8 years ago for my wedding and had moderate pain that day, and I recently looked into it again. My dentist’s office no longer uses Zoom and instead offers laser whitening, which the hygenist claims is much less painful. The price I was quoted at my office is $400.

    • Anonymous

      My MIL is a dental hygenist and she recommends the whitening trays you can get from a dentist. She said it works as well as the Zoom whitening, but less sensitivity (since its not all at once). I find the crest whitestrips extremely effective.

      • Aunt Jamesina

        Yes, I use trays from the dentist and have bought the 5 Minute White brand solution since I ran out of the dentist’s stuff. Cheaper and effectively the same, only very occasional and minor sensitivity.

    • Anon

      I’m a tea drinker so I deal with staining on my otherwise fairly white teeth. I got trays made by my dentist several years ago, I think it cost $200 and included the first round of bleach. Since then, every time or every other time I go for a cleaning, I buy a $40 box of bleach syringes from them. They’re the 3 hour strength. So occasionally I watch a movie and wear the trays. I may do two days in a row but not more than that. I get some tooth sensitivity to cold after that, but it lasts about a day and is not what I would call painful. It’s more like an awareness of my teeth than any aching or pain situation.

      I am pretty pleased with the results and highly recommend this approach. My dentist’s office doesn’t do a lot of cosmetic stuff but when I asked about this, they were willing to make the trays and sell me the bleach. I think a number of their patients do this because they always have the bleach available in their little refrigerator

    • Anon

      I don’t know where my response went so if something very similar to this posts twice, I apologize.

      I drink tea so my otherwise white teeth get dingy over time. I got my dentist to make me some trays. I think it was $200 and included the first round of bleach. This was several years ago. Now I just pick up another box of bleach vials every time or every other time I get my teeth cleaned. I get the 3-hour bleach so every once in a while I stick in the trays and watch a movie. I might do it every other month for one or two days, and I maintain a level of whiteness I’m pretty happy with.

      My dentist doesn’t really advertise cosmetic procedures but they must have a number of patients who do this because they always have bleach vials available for me to buy.

      In terms of pain, it’s notjing at all like the zoom posters advise. For me it’s a slight sensitivity to cold and hot the day after I bleach and an overall “awareness” that my teeth are in my mouth, but nothing I would describe as pain

      Overall I highly recommend this approach.

      (Ps I did try whitening strips but could never keep them on my teeth and hated tasting them)

    • Anon

      This might be a hybrid, but I get Opalescence from my dentist. It does not cause as much sensitivity as Crest Whitestrips, and I am satisfied with the results.

  15. Selling Furniture?

    Has anyone used AptDeco, Furnishare, Trove, or Chairish to sell furniture? I have 2 nice chairs that no longer fit in my space and am looking for options to sell them besides Craigslist. Any other suggestions welcome!

    • Veronica Mars

      I depends on your area, but I’ve had good luck contacting local furniture flippers/resellers and selling to them directly. I.e., we have a local business that’s exclusively mid century modern, so I Facebook messaged them a photo of my piece and asking price. They won’t pay retail, however, only a price they can flip (which was fine by me. I wanted the table gone for $500 rather than waiting and trying to sell to find a customer to pay full retail of $1k or $1.2k or whatever).

    • LadyNFS

      I used AptDeco to sell a dining table and matching buffet. After fees and the moving fee (I think we split with the buyer), we didn’t net a ton, but probably more than Craigslist and we didn’t have to deal with the hassle of (a) moving the cumbersome furniture out ourselves or (b) a stranger in hour home (minus the moving company). Overall a good experience, and I viewed it as a way to get the furniture out of our house while still making a couple bucks.

    • AIMS

      I’ve used AptDeco to both buy and sell. I’ve been very happy because it basically eliminates having to deal with strangers (other than the movers who show up for 5 minutes). Everything is done by email and I found their customer service to be very responsive and friendly.

      The one downside, I guess, is they charge a commission for sales. I think it’s ~15%, which seems reasonable to me but seemed unreasonable to my friend who is used to CL and ebay.

    • Anonymous

      Have you tried the Facebook Marketplace app? So easy! I’ve bought several pieces of wood furniture there lately to paint and distress.

  16. Best option I know of

    I need reassurance, encouragement, or something.
    DH had his first appointment with a therapist yesterday, and did schedule another. But he says he’s just doing it because it seems so important to me–and I did pressure him very hard. Not to the point of threats, I’m still fully committed to the relationship. But I have repeated it many times, raised my voice, said it even in front of our parents, etc.
    He’s been suicidal, occasionally, for the last few years, including last weekend. He regularly has intense anxiety, like hyperventilating, throwing up in the bathroom at work, type. But when he’s had a few sessions with other therapists, it never helps.
    I know that it won’t make any difference if he doesn’t want to get the help. But I don’t feel like I have any other options besides shoving therapists at him. So–I’m here, asking for support.

    • Anonymous

      My stepfather had to attend court ordered alcohol treatment therapy. He treated as BS until one day something resonated with him and he quit drinking. He did have a relapse or two but then quit again and again. Not sure if he will relapse again at some point – I hope not – but therapy definitely helped get him to the point where he wanted to quit even if he didn’t think he needed to when he started treatment. So I think you can still have good results here! Just need to help your husband stick with it!

    • Anonymous

      When someone shows you who they are, believe them. He doesn’t feel therapy is a priority for his care; so you need to decide if you’re willing to continue in the relationship with either him not going, or half-assing it. This is so tough. I’m sorry.

    • Anonymous

      I’m sorry – sending hugs your way! I think you’re absolutely doing the right thing. Of course you can’t force your husband to see the value in therapy, but I think you’re correct in pushing him to go and to stick with it long enough to get some benefit from it.

      Would it be a good idea for you to go with him for a few sessions so that you/he/the therapist can focus on specific issues to address? I have no substantive experience with therapy, so I’m not sure if that’s done.

    • Commiseration

      Super non for this response: when I was growing up, I was frequently hit, punched, and kicked, and was told that I would be sent away to an asylum if I ever tried to fight back.

      It is very, very hard for me to accept the idea that a therapist will help me. My rational brain says that’s what they do; my lizard brain says that opening up will result in more abuse or me being called “crazy.” I don’t need to pay good money to be called crazy – multiple abusers throughout my life do it for free.

      If your DH has been through anything like that, he almost needs therapy to go to therapy. Bear with him.

      • OP

        So so sorry that happened to you. I know someone who has similar history and similar feelings about therapy, and has had to screen therapists very carefully. She does believe in it, and would say she’s learned good skills–from the therapists she could trust. Good luck.
        Thankfully, not the situation I’m trying to address now. But yes, I know compassion almost always makes things better.

        • Commiseration

          Thank you.

          Just wanted you to know that people can be resistant to therapy for reasons other than just being stubborn.

    • Anon

      Is he seeing an MD too? His problem sounds so severe that he likely needs some pharmaceutical help. He might be beyond therapy at this point and need something more. He can revisit therapy once the meds start doing their job.

      • Anonymous

        I agree with you, but he’s vehemently opposed to meds :(. “Never ever going to take them”, not just the foot-dragging, doesn’t see the point resistance.

        • Anonymous

          Is he equally opposed to OTC supplements or nootropics? There are often OTC alternatives that may be a bit weaker but are also lower risk (GABA instead of benzos, 5-HTP or tryptophan instead of SSRIs, tyrosine instead of Wellbutrin, etc.)

          • Anonymous

            (To be clear, “OTC” doesn’t mean, “a great idea without any medical supervision.”)

        • Anonymous

          That really worries me.

          Someone who has considered suicide multiple times almost definitely needs to be on medication.

          Sometimes when a doctor explains to them how damaging it is to your brain to be stuck in this very stressful (hormone and neurotransmitter based) depression/anxiety state and how it leads to more disability the longer you wait to treat it with building impairments of sleep/attention/memory and increased dementia long term…. sometimes that can have an impact. To flat out refuse treatment without even understanding what that means and seemingly accept suicidal thoughts is obviously irrational. But that happens with depression.

          But you have to start somewhere. Yes, you are doing good by pushing him, and ideally, to get his primary care doctor aware and on board will also be helpful regardless.

    • Anonymous

      I think it’s okay for him to do this because it’s something that you need. I think whether it helps will partly depend on the therapist (I’ve seen some unbelievably counterproductive therapists, so I have some sympathy with his reluctance to try again).

      • Anonymous

        I can’t even imagine how long you’d be waiting in triage if you went to the ER to say “I fainted while exercising this morning” or “I was suicidal last weekend.” I’m sure there are exceptions, but I don’t believe that emergency departments in general have a great reputation for psychiatric care. Since the immediate moment of crisis has passed, I think seeing a therapist, psychologist, or psychiatrist is a good next step.

        • Aunt Jamesina

          I say this because this was me a few years ago… getting into the ER while suicidal means that you see a psychiatrist NOW, not in two weeks.

  18. Tipping

    I’m going to a salon I’ve never been to next weekend for full balayage with one stylist and then a haircut with another. I usually get $15 haircuts at the Aveda Institute so I’m new at this salon thing. Do I tip both stylists? Any tips for a first time balayage? I’m warm toned (I think?) brunette, hair color similar to Kate Middleton, haven’t had hair color in a decade. For haircut probably doing a lob.

      • Anonymous

        +1

        In this scenario, I would tip 20% to each stylist, and I usually leave $5 for the person who washes my hair, if that is someone different.

        I usually leave the tip $ with the receptionist when I pay at the end, indicating who gets what.

    • Anon in NYC

      Yes, tip both stylists. Usually I ask for the price of the service and then tip 20% of that for each stylist. So 20% of the color, and 20% of the cut.

    • Anonymous

      They often don’t have a tip line on the receipt, so I tip in cash after each service, directly to the stylist.

    • Marie

      That’s what I do as well: 20% price of balayage, % price of hair cut and $3-5 for shampoo girl. My salon has envelopes that you can write each stylist/colorist’s name on to designate who gets what. Also, be aware that many salons only accept cash for tips, so you may want to call ahead to check if you don’t regularly carry cash.

      • K

        +1 I happen to be friends with my stylist so she let me Venmo her when I forgot cash last time, but you should plan to bring cash.

    • Kiki

      If you’re not ashy or blue/grey toned, you have warm undertones in your hair. Most people naturally have warm undertones, but tend to seek cool tones when coloring.

      Fortunately though, balayage is AMAZING with warm tones. You won’t need to be toned very much (if at all) and you won’t see as noticeable of brassiness.

      For your appointment, it’s probably good to see if you like high- or low-contrast balayage (like all-over brightening or more clearly highlighted sections?) and just how light you’re willing to go. Also, if you’ve seen this person’s work (via IG or wherever) and you’re okay with it, be willing to take their input. People who balayage a lot tend to have a really good sense of what your result will be.

      I hope you love it!

  19. LadyNFS

    I used AptDeco to sell a dining table and matching buffet. After fees and the moving fee (I think we split with the buyer), we didn’t net a ton, but probably more than Craigslist and we didn’t have to deal with the hassle of (a) moving the cumbersome furniture out ourselves or (b) a stranger in hour home (minus the moving company). Overall a good experience, and I viewed it as a way to get the furniture out of our house while still making a couple bucks.

  21. Anon

    Any suggestions for casual pants to wear with tops for summer weekends? (I don’t wear shorts.) I’m a pear and the bottom half is an 8 or 10. Would rather avoid patterns just to avoid having to match. TIA!

    • Anonymous

      I don’t wear shorts either

      Ankle pants from Loft (Julie cut) – size down. Maybe look at the Treasure & Bond jeans if you like a cropped or white or black jean style, as they are nice for pears and not bad price wise, at Nordstrom’s.

      And every style, cut you will need to try on in multiple sizes to see what works for you.

      Sometimes a cool maxi-dress is a nice change of pace, and still covers the legs!

      • Anon

        Thanks! I used to have a pair from Loft that I loved years ago but the fabric finally fell apart. (Due to wear, not due to bad quality.) I’ll check them out again!

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