This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. Light blue is one of my favorite colors for work, in part because it's such an easy color to layer, as well as an easy color to complement and contrast with other colors. Wear it with a pop of red (necklace, lipstick) for a jolt of contrasting color — or try it with a dark purple blouse for a bit of complementary color. Of course, you can also layer it with neutrals and call it a day, such as pairing it with a long gray cardigan and gray shell. The skirt is $285 at Net-a-Porter. Elizabeth and James Wheeler Pointelle-Trimmed Stretch-Ponte Pencil Skirt A few lower-priced options are here (St. John, big sale), here (scallop hem), here (high waist), and here (textured jacquard in misses, petites, woman, and woman petites). Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail [email protected]. (L-all)Sales of note for 8.30.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
- Boden – 20% off
- Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
- Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
- Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
- Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
- White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
RSS Error: A feed could not be found at `https://corporette.com/tag/posts/feed`; the status code is `403` and content-type is `text/html; charset=utf-8`
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
West Coast longing
For those of you who have lived in both small towns and cities, how did you figure out which one you liked better for the long run? I’m originally from the West Coast and have been living on the East Coast for nearly ten years now. I find myself having an almost physical longing feeling to go back west and to live in the mountains. I previously thought I liked living in an East Coast city, but in the last few years, I find myself driving almost mad by the noise, the crowds, the terrible smells, the traffic, etc. I find myself staying in a lot more than I used to just to have some peace and quiet (I’m an introvert, but typically like to spend a lot of time in the outdoors when I visit family back west). However, no town or city is the promised land – would I just be trading one set of problems for another if I moved to try to obtain a different lifestyle? If I’m dissatisfied with this part of my life, is that more an indication that I need a change of scenery or simply an attitude adjustment?
To put it another way, did any of you who moved to a location you expected to like more end up liking it as much as you thought you would?
CountC
It sounds like you might like living in a place similar to where I live. I live in the capital “city” of my state, but it is a small city (nothing like DC, NYC, etc.). Within 10- 15 minutes, I can be in on the trails in the woods (with hills!) or in the land of rollinng hills and farms. I am approximately 2 -3 hours from three major cities. The traffic here is not terrible compared to some areas where I have lived and the COL is very low. There are plenty of things to do – we have minor league sports teams, wineries, breweries, river festivals, museums, running and biking paths, etc. — but I don’t feel overwhelmed like I do in major cities. There aren’t a ton of people and I don’t feel like I am a number in a crowd. In fact, it’s rare that I venture out and don’t see someone I know.
It feels low key and not rushed, which is the opposite of how I feel in large cities. It feels like people care about getting to know their neighbors, but you can also get far enough outside the “city” in a short time if you want to be without neighbors at all.
I moved here 11 years ago thinking I would move back to the busy suburbs of DC, but I ended up loving it here. I moved back to NoVA for a short period of time, but came back to my current location after two years of a four hour commute, high COL, and tooooooo many people. I couldn’t be happier to be back.
Runner 5
I also love small cities. I’m about to move away from Bath (UK) and I’ve loved living here. I’ve also spent time I’m Konstanz (Germany) and Edinburgh. I will say that I preferred Edinburgh – after a while the smallness of Bath has got to me (though that would be different if I had a car or worked in Bristol, I guess).
I grew up in a small town half an hour from London. My parents love it but they’re constantly in and out of the city. I don’t have a reason to leave the town when I’m there and I find it suffocatingly small.
Anonymous
Interested to hear about your experience living in Konstanz. It’s a possible future location for me.
Cb
I love Edinburgh but don’t think I could manage living in London – I make it two days before I’m overwhelmed and ready to leave. In a small city in the north of Italy right now and am daydreaming about living here.
former Pennsylvanian
CountC, just wanted to say that I’m originally from Central PA and am so happy to see you post so positively about Harrisburg (I see down the thread that that’s where you are). I’m living far away now but agree with just about everything you said and am really interested in moving back some day, assuming I can make it work career-wise. Thanks for reminding me of home!
CountC
You’re welcome! I really do love it here.
Anon
I grew up in a small town but now live in a big city. Husband is the same. We thought for a long time, oh, in a few years, we’ll move to his small town. A few years kept becoming a longer period Now, I am pretty convinced I don’t want to move out of the city. I think there is a tendency to grass-is-greener these types of things, but when I create my pro-con list, city wins all the way. My pro-con list goes something like this (it’s a bit different than yours might be since the climate between our current city and potential small town is different). I’d suggest you try making one and I think it helps you understand what is important to you (surprisingly, as you see below, the ability to live without a lot of driving is a HUGE improvement to my life and one I don’t want to give up. This wouldn’t be the case for a lot of people.)
City pros: subway/transit (I hate driving), awesome stuff to do/places to eat, etc., better paying jobs, diversity (both for us and for future kiddos), ease of travel (major airport, no connections), no mosquitoes, better summer/better winter.
City cons: housing prices, less green space for pups/kiddos, less privacy.
Country pros: housing prices, green space, privacy, nice small town community feel, family close by, less of a keeping up with the Joneses vibe.
Country cons: weather, bugs, driving alllllll the time and no ability to walk, crap/crappy paying jobs, feeling isolated, being isolated, lack of diversity (worry about future kiddos growing up with only WASP friends…).
Cat
Fellow driving hater/city dweller here!
Anonymous
Hah, the mosquitoes are totally a consideration for me too!
Anonymous
this is pretty much my pro/con list except we left a big city for a small town thanks to my job. It has been almost a year and I still miss it.
pugsnbourbon
Grew up in a very small Midwestern town and moved to DC after college graduation. Loved the diversity and all the action, but it was CROWDED and the COL seemed astronomical to me. There was tons to do, but I couldn’t afford to do any of it! Moved back to the Midwest to a city that’s similar to CountC’s and I absolutely love it. It’s big enough that it doesn’t feel sleepy and it’s small enough to feel like I’m not getting lost in the shuffle.
Sarabeth
Yeah, I’ve lived in a smaller Midwestern city for the past few years, and it’s been unexpectedly awesome. We moved here for a job, no previous ties to the area, but I’ve come to really like it. Plenty to do, but slow enough pace of life and low enough COL that it’s not overwhelming. Plus, much easier to get out of town.
West Coast longing
I should add that another thing that’s bothering me is that the cost of living here is astronomical for what you get, which I just don’t think I want to deal with for my whole life. Enjoying the responses so far!
Anonymous
It’s more than just city vs country though. Life in a city of 10 000 000 is vastly different than a city of 1 000 000 which is different than a city of 100 000 which is different than a town of 10 000.
And missing the mountains is a thing. DH grew up in the mountains and we live on the coast. He LOVES the mountains in a way I will never understand.
CountC
I get this. Even though I only have East Coast mountains, I can’t imagine living somewhere flat and without easy access to hilly wooded areas. I love, love, love driving through the Shenandoah, or the Appalachians, or even just seeing the tiny mountains we have here in PA. It makes me so happy and calm.
January
Ha! I grew up in a flat, coastal state and think mountains are basically weird.
I wonder if the OP would like places in Virginia (not DC suburbs)…
Anonymous
Ha! I grew up in a flat, coastal state and think mountains are basically weird.
I wonder if the OP would like places in Virginia (not DC suburbs)…
Anonymous
I grew up in CA and now live in VA. To me the “mountains” in VA are little hills covered with the wrong kind of trees. They do not fill the longing to see tall, rugged mountains in the background everywhere you look, or to be at a high elevation with fresh, clean air and evergreen trees.
Cat
I had the oppos1te experience — grew up in suburbs/exurbs and rarely went to a major city (we did go to NYC and DC for a few days as part of family trips, but nothing routine).
I then was touring colleges and my parents fully expected me to fall in love with a lush, green, suburban campus… and I surprised them (and myself) by totally falling for an urban college and then an urban law school and then living/working in the city. In a few years I will have lived in a city for longer than my huge-lawned childhood. In a way, living in the city is easier for my introverted self, because you can be as neighborly or as quiet as you want and no one thinks of you as the weird lady on the block that’s not super chatty with the neighbors. I love being able to walk and bike everywhere, having a 10 minute walking commute, not having a yard to tend, etc. BUT, I’ve never been “outdoorsy” — I get my fill of green space by walking through the park or along the river on my way home. I think I’m much happier than I would be in the burbs.
TL;DR: Following your heart on location is worth it, assuming you can get an appropriately-compensated job in your desired location!
Anonymous
I’m not sure what part of the West Coast you’re thinking about moving to, but LA and the Bay Area have all the problems you mentioned with traffic, crowds, noise, etc., not to mention a higher cost of living than most of the East Coast. I would love to live in Tahoe or some place like that, but it’s not an option for most people, unless you have a unicorn job that you can do remotely.
I left the Bay Area for the reasons mentioned above, and moved to a Midwestern college town. There are lots of things I love about my area including:
-5 bedroom house with a mortgage that is significantly smaller than the rent I paid on my 1 bedroom apartment in California
-Everything is so GREEN (a shock after living in California during the drought years)
-Life here is just so easy in a way it wasn’t in the Bay Area. Traffic is minimal, there is plentiful free parking everywhere, going to the grocery store a mile away takes 20 minutes instead of an hour, people really are friendlier, etc.
-College towns feel more “coastie” than most of the rural Midwest. We have hip coffee shops, farmer’s markets, food trucks, farm-to-table restaurants, etc. and you wouldn’t find that stuff in the average small town in the Midwest.
-We get to enjoy many of the perks of small town life and are just a couple miles from cornfields, while still being close-ish to major cities (2 hours from one of the biggest cities in the Midwest and 1 hour from a smaller city), so I kind of feel like we have the best of both worlds in terms of city/small town.
The biggest downside for me is the politics of my new region. I identify as a left-leaning moderate, and by the time I left the Bay I was side-eyeing all the hippies, but moving to a red state has been a culture shock, especially in this election cycle with Trump and his terrible supporters. Our town itself is a liberal bubble that is quite diverse for the Midwestern (our public school district is “only” about 65% white), but as soon as you leave the city limits you see Confederate flags, which is kind of horrifying to me. I’m sure that stuff exists in California, but it is physically farther removed from the Bay Area. I also miss having Big Sur, Tahoe, Yosemite and Napa within driving distance, although our jobs in the Bay Area were so crazy we didn’t get to take advantage of our location that often.
Sydney Bristow
I left the PNW to live in NYC. I really like living here but there are definite negatives. Sometimes I get really homesick though.
What helps me is that I see living in NYC as a temporary thing. We’ll probably stay for the next 10 years but definitely plan to relocate to the PNW at some point after that. Because of our plan, I try to remember to focus on doing things here that I can’t do there. I’ve got a list going of things to do before moving back.
I miss the trees, my family, the rain (sort of), the lack of humidity, and the less crowded feel. I only miss driving sometimes and know I’ll miss the days of pretty convenient public transit when we move, despite my complete annoyance with the MTA.
anonshmanon
What was your expectation of liking the big city based on originally? Or do you mean you liked it at first, but now not so much? Cause these preferences simply might have changed over time. They do with me.
West Coast longing
I sort of ended up staying out here by accident (after attending college nearby) – this was where my boyfriend (now husband) found a job. At first I really liked the convenience of not having to drive a lot, having restaurants right nearby, etc., but I’ve never been one to try all the trendy new restaurants anyway and I sometimes feel like I could be happy living in a small town with just 3 good restaurants. I am also so, so tired of paying a ton of money to live in a 500-square-foot one-bedroom apartment with absolutely no green space or view, not even nearby (although the location is very convenient).
Anyone want to share any of the exact towns they live in (or states at least)?
CountC
Harrisburg, PA
Anonymous
Outside of Albany, NY (another State capitol also 2-3 hours from 3 major cities- NY, Boston and Montreal)
anon
I am solving this problem by moving back to the PNW this summer. So excited!
Gail the Goldfish
There’s a lot in between “small town” and “city.” I moved from NYC to a city of about 450,000 (the surrounding are brings it up to I think two million?)–it’s nowhere near NYC, but it’s still a decent sized city with plenty of entertainment, restaurants, etc. But I’m also not far from nature, can go horseback riding without it involving an hour on the subway and 20 minute walk to get there, my work commute is 15 minutes, I can see the sky, and my cost of living plummeted. It’s a good compromise. I grew up in a town of about 150,000, and I like where I am now more.
Anon
Sacramento, CA: Still California but not as expensive as SF or LA
Politics are here
Great outdoors stuff: biking trails, close to Tahoe
Feels like a midwestern city: people are nice, but feels like California — we have people from all over, diversity,
Anonymous
Need advice in responding (or not) to an out of character comment from a friend. My friend is a warm person and a hardworking professional. We’ve taken turns supporting each other through terrible BFs, terrible bosses, and illness, death, and drama in our families. Friend and I are both white and non-religious.
My friend texted me a picture late last night and said something like, I can’t help but feel scared by this after Orlando. The picture was of some people kneeling but I couldn’t really tell what was going on so I asked her to clarify. She said they were praying. I didn’t really respond to her because I didn’t want to go off on a rant, I just sent her a side eye emoji and tried to go back to bed. I’m still bothered about it today though. I’m not sure if I should address it at all, or if I should do it in person rather than over text, but IF I try to talk to her about it, I want to be respectful but firm. I don’t want to make her defensive but I do want to express that that comment is really not OK. Or maybe I should just start a slow fade if this is who she is. I just feel really confused and hurt right now and I’m not sure how to move forward. WWYD?
Anon
Well, for starters, I wouldn’t send a side-eye emoji to convey your feelings about it. I also wouldn’t blow off your friend who may be rightfully feeling scared by religious extremism and the epidemic of gun violence that other industrialized countries view as insane. Have an honest conversation about it, but if you find that you’re ready to “slow fade” a good friend who has been there for you through a lot of life experiences over one questionable comment, that may be on you, not her.
OP
If a mass shooting had been committed by a Christian, I don’t think she would feel fearful watching nice white people walking into church in their Sunday best. It’s the Muslim = terrorist connection that I take issue with.
wut?
I wrote a longer comment that hasn’t shown up yet, but I am scared of fundamentalist Christians.
Abortion clinic violence. Relentless attacks on LGBT and reproductive rights. Catholic hospital directives taking precedent over medical standards.
Am I afraid that the church down the street is presently plotting a massive attack? No. (But see, abortion clinic violence). But I *am* afraid of the extreme influence that other people’s religious beliefs have over my life and the lives of people I care about.
“It’s the Muslim = terrorist connection that I take issue with.”
OP, you didn’t say this in your original comment. I agree that it is *not* ok to connect all Muslims with terrorism. But you don’t know that she was doing that, at this point. For all you know, she could have just meant religious extremism in general. Pictures and emojis aren’t exactly the best methods for discussing nuanced topics.
Anonymous
What was so difficult about responding with “c’mon you know it’s not all Muslims, there are crazies in every faith.” I don’t think being firm and educating her after that fact is appropriate. You are adults and equals. She made a not great comment to a friend, that friend responded with an emoji, and now it’s done.
OP
I take your point. It was the middle of the night and I was already half asleep, so something between “tf is this racist tripe???” and “?!?!” was about all I was capable of. I should’ve not responded at all until I could do so more articulately. But now here we are.
bridget
Well, you first have to believe that it is not acceptable to mock or stereotype religious people (for any reason). Maybe you do, but it is my experience that many educated atheists look down their noses at people of faith.
So articulate that it is not acceptable on principle, but back it up with facts. One religious extremist did this, while tens of thousands of people of faith opened their homes, wallets, and even veins to help make things better. Pick ANY faith and you will find people who condemn this violence and give of themselves to help the victims. It takes all of ten minutes to find what churches, temples, mosques, and even Chick Fil A are doing there.
(And before anyone starts getting their backs up, please notice that I never said nor implied that the efforts to help are exclusively faith based.)
wut?
Uh, what? Why is it “not ok?” You appear to be confused about what she was even trying to convey and yet you’re willing to throw away your friendship, or chastise her for a comment– one that you believe is out of character? Why are YOU hurt? Did she insult YOU?
You come of as incredibly sanctimonious in your comment. You want to be respectful but firm? She’s not a child. It would torch a friendship if someone came to me in that patronizing manner to school me for sending a picture and a one line comment.
I dunno. I’m a white atheist from an Episcopalian family and I’m scared religious fundamentalists… of all stripes. Why is religious fundamentalism protected from critique?
Here’s what you should do. Drop this issue with the picture. What a tremendous opportunity for a miscommunication. The next time you get together with her, have a general conversation with her about the issues you believe were brought up by this text (“Radical Islam,” terrorism, religion, fundamentalism, LGBT rights, predator drones, whatever). If she says something bigoted or that you deem unacceptable to you, then ditch her as a friend. But you’ll probably find that she’s still the same person you thought she was.
Anonymous
Write her back and say that you don’t think more prejudice is the answer to this situation. Most major faiths have a very wide spectrum of different beliefs. There was a thread here a while ago and it seemed like I wasn’t the only pro-choice, pro-gay marriage Episcopalian.
Friends in Toronto recently got married in a church – apparently United Church of Canada (mainstream church) does marriage ceremonies for gay couples as well.
Idea
Why not write back with “What do you mean?” Ask questions first.
Anonymous
I think you’re over-reacting. As a non-religious person, I regularly talk to my fellow non-religious friends about how much we dislike organized religion. It’s 100% fine if you don’t want to hear these kind of comments, and you should let her know, but it sounds like she (not unreasonably, imo) thought you would be receptive. Even if you think it was really aimed at Muslims, which I didn’t take away from your original comment, I don’t believe the way to respond to a single prejudiced comment is by dropping the friend. How would anyone ever learn or grow in that case? Give your friend the benefit of the doubt that she can become more tolerant when you explain why those comments are wrong. If she keeps it up and it makes you uncomfortable, by all means distance yourself, but it seems harsh to drop her ASAP over what you admit is an out of character comment.
Idea
+1
Even as a religious person, I talk to my religious friends about problems with organized religion.
I didn’t get the pro-religion vibe at all from your story – a picture of someone praying does not = super pro-religion, or even super scared, like your friend actually said she feels.
Why not ask, scared of what? How do you feel?
It sounds to me like you don’t want to dig deeper into feelings of any kind, esp. her feelings about this (scary, foreboding, at least to you) topic. Which is fine. Just say so.
Wildkitten
Maybe she’s afraid of people praying because it’s the opposite of passing meaningful gun control, so the prayers are actually a direct threat to her well being as every time this nation prays, more unhinged 20 something males buy AR-15s…
Anon
Actually..I am surprised by your reaction. Fifty people are dead and people getting scared is a normal reaction. I am scared too after this attack, because I am an Indian and some crazy white guy can shoot me thinking I am a Muslim.
Cc
Where the people even Muslim? Or was she saying they were? Christians kneel to pray so I don’t know if you are saying she assumed they were Muslim. But I’m assuming the picture was of something she saw- I would 100 percent feel scared and uneasy if I went outside and saw a group of people kneeling and praying on the street no matter what the religion. I also get very uneasy when the guy with the flyers I can’t believe you’d think of ending a friendship with her without even talking about what she was trying to convey.
OfCounsel
I am just going to point out here that devout Muslims pray 5 times a day – where ever they might be. There is a taxi staging area near my office and the drivers can frequently be seen praying on the sidewalk. There is nothing to be “scared and uneasy” about. They are not dangerous and not proselytizing. They are not trying to convert you or make a political comment. They are just praying in the traditional manner of their religious tradition.
Anonymous
Can anyone recommend a free online video that is similar to CorePower’s C2 class? I’m traveling to a place that has CorePower, but not sure I can make the scheduling work.
Lkl
I agree that many light blues would work with purple, but I’m struggling to see that with this shade of robin’s egg, as it’s on the greenish/aqua side. I would pair it with coral, or perhaps red jewelry/lipstick as Kat mentioned.
sanity check
My boyfriend told me to “watch my language.” (when I swore in a car, just the two of us) Am I overreacting to think this is a little controlling/potentially abusive? He hasn’t shown other signs of this kind of behavior, but this threw me.
Anonymous
I wouldn’t use the term abusive, but yes, it sounds controlling and would be very off-putting to me. If he doesn’t like swearing, he should phrase it like “swearing bothers me, can you please not swear so much when we’re together,” not talk down to you the way you would to a kid.
Anonymous
Really? Watch your language is pretty standard. I don’t think he needs to use 47 I-centered words to convey this. If she doesn’t want to “no screw you” would be a good response.
OP
I guess it felt like a command to me, which I didn’t like.
Anonymous
Then tell him that. “Don’t tell me what to do.” It’s pretty easy.
Anonymous
What did he say when you told him that?
OP
I dropped it because it was a semi-stressful driving situation and didn’t want to make it worse.
Anonymous
I have never heard an adult say “watch your language” to another adult, except in the context of a parent/child relationship. I do’n’t think he needs to use exclusively “I-centered” words but he could say “Please stop swearing” or something like that. “Watch your language” just feels veryyyy parental/authoritative to me, because I’ve really only heard that term used by parents speaking to their kids and teachers or other authority figures speaking to their students.
anonshmanon
ditto
OP
Yeah, that encapsulates how I felt. And yeah, “abusive” is a little strong for what I meant.
AIMS
Were you swearing at him or generally? I swear like a sailor most of the time but Mr. AIMS and I never swear at each other so if I were to say something like F.U. or if he called me an a**h*le or even said STFU, it would be pretty jarring and might provoke a similar response (although I probably wouldn’t use the same words but that’s just not how I talk). I’d just say something to him like “hey I didn’t want to escalate things then but I really don’t like being talked to like that b/c x and y” Absent other red flags, I would not assume the worst here.
Anonymous
Maybe he just doesn’t like swearing? Was it particularly egregious? Out of character for how you normally speak? Does he swear? Was it a sensitive subject matter?
You may or may not be okay with it, but I don’t think it is even a little bit abusive or controlling based on what you say here.
OP
He was driving in a semi-stressful situation, I said another driver was being an a$$hole I think. Ok, thanks for the perspective.
Anonymous
Oh yeah so for me I hate road rage when I’m driving. It’s already stressful I don’t need rage inside the car too. If the phrasing is really an issue speak up but if you aren’t otherwise concerned I don’t think this needs to be a big thing.
Anon
Is it new behavior? My ex suddenly decided that women shouldn’t curse or “drink like a man” it was part of a spiral downward into abusive control. But no one thing like telling me not to swear would have popped up to me as abusive at the time.
lifer
Driving can be stressful. Sounds like he was stressed, and by swearing it kinda ups the ante and perhaps made him more stressed.
I’m surprised that your impulse is concern that your guy is “potentially abusive” from this experience. What he said was so benign…. Even if he said it ?firmly, again…. if it was a stressful situation, you were potentially distracting him and making it worse.
Is there something else going on here?
I actually get worried about people who find the need to swear in cars. I have seen a lot of road rage, and grew up among people who did not know how to deal with stress/anger. Not pretty…
Anonymous
I don’t think making a casual comment that “oh, that driver is an a-hole” is road rage. Screaming “A-HOLE!!!!!” at another car is road rage. It sounds to me like the OP did the former, not the latter. And I really don’t think the OP’s bf’s comment was “benign.”
OP
Yeah it was not road rage on my part…if anything I was mildly anxious and sorry on his behalf that he had to deal with the driving situation.
lifer
Then don’t you see how your anxiety (which I’m sure he sensed) + swearing + his anxiety + stressful driving situation in small car space = his response?
I can’t believe we are over-analyzing this.
I still wonder… is there something else going on? What is the bigger context here?
OP
Not meaning to overanalyze. I will think if there’s a bigger context involved that I’m not seeing fully.
Shayla
Agreed. Without more, it sounds fine. I was in and out of power plants for ~5 years so I had a mouth like a sailor. My now-husband was really annoyed by it, and regularly used “watch your language.” We did talk about it though–so I understood where he was coming form and he understand that it was kind of like “business speak” for me. I still get annoyed that he’s essentially against swearing at all, but it was just words so they got phased out. And now I say things like “For fox lake!” and think it annoys him more. That’s a win in my book!
Anon
I will now be saying “for fox lake” ALLLLLLL the time.
CountC
SAAAAAAME. Love it!
Ms B
This is excellent. Right up there with “I am about to lose my schmidt!”, “What in the wide wide world of sports do you think you are doing?” and “Cr@psnacks”.
pugsnbourbon
It’s not quite as good as a well-placed f-bomb, but “aw FARTS” is still pretty satisfying.
Wildkitten
Swearing is an important key value of mine, and that would be JSFAMO. Is it a value for you? There are other things my BF points out to me – like when I am chewing my nails – that bother me a bit because hey don’t point out my flaws, but on the other hand, I don’t notice myself and I would like to stop chewing my nails. Which of these is it for you?
OP
Funny…I didn’t quite realize this, but maybe why it would seem bothersome to me is that swearing is a key value to me, too! Good to know that about myself, haha.
Julia
I think your reaction is spot on. This seems like an indication of the paternalism/controlling behavior I have decided I simply won’t tolerate in a relationship. It’s my non-negotiable/break-up trigger. I would assume there would be more to come if I stuck around and I would not be able to get past it. Others are less sensitive to this and I get it (and I don’t see it as rising to abusive, certainly not from this alone) . Good for them, their dating pool is larger for it. It just won’t work for me.
I really don’t see it from the “you were creating anxiety/rage in an anxious situation so it is fine” perspective above. That seems revisionist to me. Neither of us was there, obviously, I’m just telling you I don’t see in your comments the pieces to complete that picture.
Ally
Um yeah I would be like F#@% OFF.
Edna Mazur
I really like this skirt. WAY over my budget, but so cute.
So we got an advertisement from a landscaping company with what, I assumed, was a bag of rock candies. Nope, it was just rocks. I tried to eat a rock this morning. Hope ya’ll’s day starts off better.
Anonymous
Hahaha, this is the best Edna- I would totally make the same mistake, and I also love the skirt. I also think “go eat a bag of rocks”, might be my new insult.
lifer
Thank you so much for brightening my day.
I really really laughed with this, and needed it.
Forgive me for laughing at your expense. I hope your crowns are ok!!!
Idea
This is funny.
Anon
I cannot stop laughing at this.
Senior Attorney
*snort*
I would totally do that!
Edna Mazur
My teeth are totally fine. I really want rock candy now though…
Anon
I went to a wedding recently that had a candy buffet at the reception with rock candy. It was awesome.
Baconpancakes
Can’t stop laughing. Love that you did this, and completely baffled as to why they would send actual rocks in the mail.
lost academic
They’re decorative. At my old house too it was a way some companies would toss out fliers and make sure they wouldn’t blow away – put them in a bag with rocks in it for weight.
ace
Just snort-laughed. Thank you, Edna!
2 years in Switzerland?
My husband’s company has introduced the idea of a 2-year stint in Switzerland, not Geneva but nearby. We are open to the idea, but considering my job (I think I would go jobless for 2 years), our soon-to-be three children, and house we own… have a lot of questions about what this would look like. What are some questions we need to make sure to ask while contemplating this. I’ve started doing a bit of research, but would appreciate any tips/perspective from fellow R*ttes. Thank you!
Anonymous
Is there a COL adjustment to his salary if he were to go and does that COL adjustment REALLY cover all the added costs? Europe is more expensive than anyone ever thinks and you get a lot less for your money esp. when it comes to real estate. What do you do for a living? Could you take a 2 yr break w/o harming your career — if that’s an issue for you? Those are the 2 things I’d start with. If you get favorable answers there and want to do this, then it’s about housing, schools for the kids, are there paid visits back home to the U.S., would you rent or sell your house and would the company help in any way etc.
Anon
Yes definitely check into the the COL thing. Compared to many other parts of Europe, Switzerland is cray expensive. My sister lived in Italy for three years and traveled all over Europe during that time. She rarely went to Switzerland just because how much more expensive it tended to be. If you’re coming from NYC or the Bay Area or something it might not be much of a shock.
That said, it sounds like an awesome opportunity, and I think it would be easier to find a job again after that than after just quitting for two years because you wanted to. I think a lot of people think the opportunity to live in Europe for a few years because of your spouse’s job is an understandable reason for an employment gap.
Francophile
Depending where outside Geneva the position is based, you can look into living in France and commuting over the border. Housing is much cheaper, food and other prices in general are lower, and they are starting to have really excellent bilingual schools, including public schools, to cater to the increasing numbers of expats who are priced out of Switzerland. French salaries are also generally low by US standards (30k year is comfortably middle class…) so a COL adjustment or US or Swiss salary will go pretty far. My husband’s best friend does that (Swiss, married to a French woman, so not the same situation) and it is really a nice life.
Allie
+1
A friend of mine went on secondment to Geneva for 6 months and had to have his (well above national average for our home country) salary increased because he wasn’t actually earning the Swiss minimum wage. I went out to visit him and was shocked by the cost of everything – food, drink, transport…
Definitely make sure that you account for the COL increase!
Engie
AFAIK Switzerland doesn’t have a minimum wage.
Anonymous
This sounds like an amazing opportunity! My husband is likely going to have a similar opportunity soon and we plan to go as a family. My biggest concern would be the gap in your career. Will you be able to resume after not working for two years? Is taking an unpaid leave from your current job or working remotely an option? Will there be similarly situated ex-pat spouses you can tap into for a social network? With no job and no friends in the area, it could be lonely, although I suppose your kids would alleviate that to some degree if they’re old enough to communicate. Speaking of that, I’d also look into the details of enrolling your kids in school there. And second the comment above about COL. Switzerland is particularly expensive so I would expect a significant salary increase or company-provided housing.
Anon
My company frequently sends people abroad for a few years. A few things from observing this that I would want to know:
– taxes: do they provide assistance with your personal taxes. Mine doesn’t and it has been an absolute horror for some people.
– take a real look at the cost of living difference and see if it works. Also, if they pay for your place abroad, can you rent out your place in the US or does it have to sit vacant? Find out what the take home pay looks like and then what you will owe for US taxes. Our secondees have been shocked at what amount is actually going into their bank account after all is said and done.
– health care and schools/child care: does this look different for nationals versus foreigners? Is there additional cost associated here?
– transportation: will they pay to move your stuff? how are you going to get around over there? Do you need a car? Do they take care of that? Do you need to get a local license? How onerous is that? Are you being paid enough to come home to visit occasionally?
Thistle
The greater Geneva area is unbelievably expensive. A little of expats live just over the border in France where it’s still pricy but not anywhere near as expensive. Flats in Geneva are pretty small and the neighbourhoods can vary a lot.
Thistle
If your kids are school age then you need to think about what school they will go to and what language they will be taught in. Geneva English School is exactly what it says but does language classes. After that there are several international high schools.
Anonforthis
You are living my dream! I lived in Switzerland in my twenties and would love, love the opportunity to go back there for a few years now that I am an adult with children! There is so much outdoor stuff to do and it is so very beautiful. It is incredibly safe and the kids will have such a wonderful experience there. The Swiss do tend to keep to themselves a bit, but if you are willing to put yourself out there you will make friends!
Actuary
Personal experience – stuff that I remember mattering off the top of my head:
* Are they going to make him “whole” – tax equalization was huge (as noted above), COL adjustments, whether he gets paid in euros or usd (I had a split payroll so I wasn’t exposed to as much fx fluctuations since I still had bills and retirement to save for in usd), benefits (eg special expat healthcare or something else)
* schools – will they cover international school if you decide to do go that route?
* relocation benefits – transport of household goods, short term but if they’re not providing Corp housing, want to make sure you don’t pay for two houses, personal storage, property maintenance
* smaller stuff – vacation policies, home leave (and what’s covered), pets (if you have them), language lessons, club memberships (Not sure if this is relevant in Europe, was in Asia where I was stationed) and other assimilation support
Anonymous
Further echoing they it is crazy expensive. Another weird thing to know: Swiss grocery stores have amazingly limited opening hours by U.S. standards. When I lived there it felt like they assumed you had a stay at home partner, which I found very frustrating. Some people drive to France to do their shopping.
anon
When I was 9 we moved to Lausanne for 9 months for my father to attend a business school program. I still remember so much of the experience. We went to the Commonwealth American School and were taught in English and French, went skiing/ice-skating on Fridays in the winter, explored Switzerland, France and Italy on long weekends, and it was generally a fantastic learning opportunity as a kid. My parents made so many friends from all over the world that we would visit in later years and with whom they still correspond. I remember spending one evening with a Brazilian family and we (the kids) ended up communicating in signs and laughter. So, I’ve nothing to offer from the practical perspective, but what a gift to your family to have this opportunity if it makes sense for you.
OP
Thank you everyone. So very helpful, and anon at 1:17, what wonderful memories–how I hope I can provide the same to our kids! I’m going to share your thoughts, questions, and tips with my other half. I’ll keep you posted!
Anonymous
Not the same but I’m in the process of applying for an opportunity to spend about 1.5 years in Germany. I’ve also done the move to an entirely new country alone previously.
It’s tougher with a family but easier with the support of a company, from what I’ve heard. Certainly ask all the questions posted here and get the full details. In your shoes, I’d be likely 85% to go. I know some spouses in similar circumstances who couldn’t work due to visas, but as others have said, I think you’ll find understanding employers upon your return. Depending on your field, you might be able to volunteer, do remote work (check visa and company rules), blog, etc to stay current. You’ll also have a lot of time, which I imagine will be at least somewhat filled by family and travel when the children aren’t at school – just something to think about!
As I said, I’d most likely do this in your situation but possibly negotiate if some answers aren’t to your satisfaction.
Anonymous
How frequently do you weigh yourself, and how much does your weight fluctuate before you say “okay, I need to reign it in”?
I’m trying to maintain a weight loss, and I’m trying to find a healthy balance that’s a little less restrictive/obsessive.
Anonymous
I never weigh myself. I know I need to reign it in when my pants get snug.
lifer
+1
This is the way to do it.
It was not good for my mental health to be weighing regularly.
CountC
+2 Same here.
Midwest Mama
Yep, this.
Anonymous
Daily in the morning.
Anonymous
This is me too. I weigh morning and evening. It helps me understand that my body can range over the course of the day but I also recognize if I’m on a upward trend and take a look at what I’m eating. Usually try to address any 5lb creep.
lslsls
Also daily. I am maintaining now, but this keeps me on track since I don’t notice weight gain with clothes as much. I don’t panic over a few pounds after a trip that will eventually go away, but generally the 5lbs mark is when I start to clean up my diet a little more and step it up at the gym.
Wildkitten
Doing it daily is an easier habit for me than remembering to do it weekly.
Legally Brunette
I know that the common notion is not to weigh yourself and instead see how you fit in clothes, but that doesn’t work for me. I’d rather weigh myself once a week to keep tabs — if I move too much in one direction, I can reign it in before my skirts get too tight.
Once or twice a week, tops.
Anonymous
Daily, just b/c I’m in my 40s.
Clothes don’t lie, but for things you wear infrequently (suits, seasonal clothes), that didn’t seem to be the right approach. I have some clothes that I could wear pregnant (unbuttoned jackets, some shift dresses), so I like the fallback of the scale.
Anonny
I weigh myself about once a week. I give myself 12 lbs leeway. It’s the difference between being a toned 2 and a squishy 4 for me. Once I get to the squishy point I kick it into full gear, list as heavy as I can and cut out all treats.
Anonymous
Once or twice a week, and I aim for the same day and time every week. Usually a Tuesday morning and a Friday morning. I try to keep myself accountable by showing myself how much damage my weekend eating and drinking habits do to my weight loss efforts.
Anon
I weigh myself daily. I have about a five pound range that is normal and so if I get above that amount I start paying better attention to what I am eating.
Wendy
Once a week – every Sunday. My weight seems to stay in a 5 lb window, except at Thanksgiving and Christmas when it tends to creep higher before returning to normal.
Amy H.
Daily (in the morning), and can have up to 5 lb. fluctuation just based on what I ate the day before, how late at night I ate, how long I slept, and . . . bathroom factors.
And yes, I am going to be that person. It is “rein it in,” in this context — like a horse! Not a Queen’s reign. Same rule for “free rein” — you are letting the horse go where it wants. You are giving it free rein.
Anon
I need a swift kick in the pants, ladies. About a year and a half ago, my husband said he wanted a divorce and he moved out. We had been married for almost 9 years at that point. I asked him to try counseling, which he did go to, but wouldn’t do anything at counseling – basically saying that he was done with the marriage. I actually felt relieved once the marriage was over. I felt like he had changed pretty significantly over the last few years – I felt like he cared more about money than anything, I felt like I had to walk on eggshells to not get him upset, and I had wanted to start a family, but he kept wanting to push it off (and strung me along for a couple years on that). We are both pretty reserved with our feelings, and I think our communication was pretty poor – we would both hold things in until we would explode.
Well, we have the final signing for our divorce – which had been very amicable, and the day before the signing he tells me that he doesn’t want to sign the papers. I agree to meet him for dinner, and we ended up having a very nice time together. He tells me that he has always loved me, but he had hated who he had become (which I did, too) and felt like he needed a huge change to fix that. He says that he does want kids now, but he’s scared because he feels like his life will be over…
My friends think that he realized he couldn’t do any better, and that’s why he’s come crawling back now. And my logical side very obviously sees that I should just let this go, move on with my life and close this chapter. But the other part of me really enjoyed hanging out with him and thinking about fixing our marriage. I am just at a loss for how to reconcile these opposite thoughts and feelings.
Sorry for the novel and run on sentences!
TLDR – husband left me, now wants back. My brain says no! but my heart says to try.
lifer
Oh my goodness. I am so so sorry for this.
But, please…. listen to your brain. This is not rational behavior from your husband, and is pure emotion. He has told you time, and time again what kind of person he is. That is your measuring stick. Not a dinner, the night before signing divorce papers.
This guy needs a lot of work, and I have little confidence that he is ready to do it, from what you have shared.
Idea
The last paragraph.
You can always remarry him if he does change … ? This is not the way for him to keep you, or for him to show that he’s changed. It sounds like he HASN’T changed, he’s just changed what he wants (you, what you/marriage symbolize to him)
Anonymous
nope. Sign the papers. Have you lawyer demand that he does too. He is just scared and so are you.
Anonymous
I wouldn’t get back together with him because of this “He says that he does want kids now, but he’s scared because he feels like his life will be over…”
You’ll end up doing the lion’s share of the parenting because he won’t want to change his work hours/habits or hobbies because then ‘his life will be over’. Plus, he’s already shown that he blames you when he has difficulties in his life (didn’t like who he had become), he’ll blame you when life changes after kids.
Plus, “I felt like I had to walk on eggshells to not get him upset” is not a situation you want to raise kids around.
divorce
+1000
Terrible, terrible environment for kids.
Anonymous
I’m not opposed to people trying to work things out, even after getting lawyers involved (I have a close friend that separated from her husband, had divorce papers drawn up, reconciled, and now they seem very happy). But I think there are a few telling things in your comment that point to not giving it another try:
-“I actually felt relieved once the marriage was over.” When you’re not emotional about having just seen him, you clearly feel like you’re better off without him.
-“I felt like I had to walk on eggshells to not get him upset.” NOT a situation you want to resume or bring kids into.
-“He says that he does want kids now, but he’s scared because he feels like his life will be over.” Girl, he’s still not ready for kids and he’s admitting that to you!
You know what the right answer is here. You just need support and encouragement. Hugs. You deserve so much better than this guy and you will find it some day. Don’t let the understandable emotions surrounding signing the divorce papers cloud your judgment.
Anon
How old are you, how badly do you want kids, and do you think this dude would be a good father? And is he saying that he’s made some changes? If so, what exactly has he changed and why? Has he gone to counseling? Read books? Or is he just saying “I’ve changed” to get you back?
Would you be willing to do something like say “lets do 6 months of counseling and see how it goes”? And then see how it goes? See if he opens up in counseling? On your part, really try to be better at communicating, not holding things in, not walking on eggshells, and see how it goes? And if he’s a jerk then JSFAMO with a clear conscience.
lawsuited
Sign the papers to finalize the divorce (you’ve already done all the work and paid all the money to get you both to this point), then decide if you’re interested in doing counselling and having a relationship with him once that’s no longer looming large. Personally, I have a feeling that you will no longer be interested in doing that, but even if you are, you can go to counselling and spend time together just as easily once you’re divorced. If you decide you want to be married to him again, it’ll cost you a marriage licence and a quick trip to the courthouse. It’s must quicker and cheaper to get married than to get divorced, don’t lose the momentum you’ve worked hard for.
Senior Attorney
Yes, this.
I have worked in family law, and I will tell you that it is vanishingly rare for people to reconcile and make it work after getting lawyers involved, even without getting all the way through the process as you have.
And my personal experience, from taking my husband back twice after I’d left him, bears that out. Both times I woke up a year later and thought “Man! If I’d stuck it out I’d be well into my new and better life by now, instead of right back where I started!”
Anonymous
A marriage is two things: there’s the day-to-day union of two people’s lives, and then there’s the piece of paper. Your “marriage” in the our-lives-are-united sense, has been over for quite some time. Signing the papers is just a recognition of what’s already happened.
What you have right now is not a marriage. Even if you two try to rebuild, it’s going to take a long time to get back to a real marriage. There is no need to have this marriage-on-paper in the interim. Go through with signing the papers, see if he’s for real or if he’s just having an emotional reaction to the divorce, and go from there.
Anon
Thanks, everyone, I know these are the right answers. To answer some of the follow up questions:
I’ll be 36 next month, and I really want a kid. I have been considering being a single by choice mom, so there’s no pressure on finding someone just to have kids.
I don’t know what he has done to change – I seriously doubt he’s done counseling or reading books or anything of the like.
For trying counseling – I don’t know if I want to. I feel like I should try, and when I’m with him I think I want to try. But my brain says just run! I was the one that tried before, and he wasn’t willing to even try.
Anonymous
RUN
lawsuited
If you need permission to leave this marriage behind you and move on guilt-free, you have it. He ended the relationship definitively. He is now making the most feeble, most last-minute attempt possible to maybe-kinda-sorta work on things and possibly-if-he-feels-like-it reconsider having kids which is something you want so badly you’re willing to do it as a single parent. I’m sorry if this is harsh, but that relationship is not worthy of your consideration and hard work.
If you’re thinking “run” then do it, and without guilt.
Senior Attorney
Run as fast and as far as you can!
Anon in NYC
This is a way oversimplification, but this is like the nostalgia you feel when you graduate college when suddenly you look back at everything with rose-colored glasses.
You know that he probably hasn’t put in the heavy lifting to do the sort of emotional work he needed to do to be a good partner, and you (and he) are looking back at the good times and glossing over the tough parts. Your brain is telling you what you need to do.
Wendy
Definitely listen to your brain – just so many red flags here.
Gift Genie
Need a relative gift. 60s woman, but dresses and has interests of a much younger woman, very picky, returns many gifts but would be offended by a gift card. Is very into skin care and health and stuff like that but would not want a facial/massage gift certificate. Travels a lot so maybe some travel essential? Budget of $75-100.
Anonymous
My default gift for this kind of person is a really nice candle.
Elizabeth
No candle! I’d rather get nothing than a candle. I’m in my sixties, with specific tastes, and people say I’m so hard to buy for. I say, don’t get me anything! I have everything! Although I do like restaurant gift cards. If someone gifts me with a candle, I think, no imagination at all.
Legally Brunette
+1 I hate candles and lotion as gifts.
yup...
And the SMELLS that accompany these types of gifts may be unpleasant (or even headache causing) in others.
Some people are candle people. But 95% of the public are not.
Anon
Sephora gift card.
gifts
Tickets to a concert/museum etc..
Take her out to dinner
A subscription to the Harvard Women’s Health newsletter.
A beautiful scarf (that she will return)
An orchid plant
One of those great Zojirishi coffee thermoses. And a collection of nice coffees or teas.
Packing squares
A kindle, to take while traveling, with some books loaded (aren’t there really cheap ones now?).
Honestly…. I hate getting gifts for people like this. And I hate that people like this demand gifts….
anonshmanon
My favorite solution is to talk to her directly:
“Kathy, I totally admire how you have a style that is truly your own and stick to it. I would love to spoil you a bit for your birthday, but want to make sure you really like what I get you. Can you give me some ideas?”
As an alternative, can you ask a best friend or spouse or just go shopping with her and then get her something?
kc esq
I’ve been getting a lot of gifts for my return-happy relatives at DSW. I’ll get a purse or wallet and if they want to return it, they can pick out their own shoes. Everyone can find something if they want.
lawsuited
Packing cubes (with a gift receipt)?
Anonymous
Aesop gift set
Anonymous
That is, they are very fancy and I think they have little travel kits and fancy flight spray and hand sanitizer. It is $$$$$$ but a good gift for a fancy, goopy person who has everything.
Calico
Cuyana leather toiletry bag
Jen
Send flowers?
In the Pink
How about one of those fabulous zippered makeup cases by Trish McEvoy? Even if she uses other brands, it is super for travel. Now that so many brands have separate/isolated shadows and blushes, it’s easy to put them on her magnetized “pages.” Or she can just put whatever she uses in their own “compacts” inside the zippered case. I also like her flattened one that carries brushes. So great for travel that I got the petite one for my make in my office. Color choices are often wonderful as well.
Earlier this spring, someone posted about a zippered container for jewelry which was equally amazing and expensive as well. I’m thinking of one as a xmas gift to myself, but Lord help me, I can’t remember the name of it.
Meg Murry
I was thinking that too. I think I found it, but the link will probably get caught in moderation, so search for “signature travel jewelry case”
Another gift
I learned about “packing squares” for the first time on this site. Was thinking of buying some for my brother, who travels quite a bit. Is there a size/brand/assortment that you have given a guy that has been appreciated?
I never travel, so I have difficulty judging.
Anonymous
I travel a ton, and I’ve had people buy me packing squares. They’re not for me- I have a system, and my system involves a lot of Ziploc bags, which work perfectly, and you can suck the air out of them so things take less space AND they’re spillproof for toiletries.
I would check with him on whether he needs them before you buy them.
Senior Attorney
Lovely Fiance uses Eagle Creek and has turned me on to them, too. I got the starter set with one folder and two cubes in different sizes, and loved it. Planning to buy more folders.
lucy stone
My husband and I each have a set from eBags with the Small, Medium, and Large, and then another set of Larges. This works well for us but we travel with rolling duffels.
Wildkitten
http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/travel-guide/#cubes
another gift
Thanks all!
When I used to travel, I just used…. plastic bags. I liked that they were so malleable.
Anonymous
A friend got me a beautiful piece of art and I want to hang it on the wall. The problem is that it’s pretty small (not much bigger than a standard 8.5 x 11 piece of paper) and so even with a mat and a frame on it, I feel like it’s going to look comically small alone on a wall. Solutions? I feel like this is what a gallery wall is for but I don’t really have the time or talent to do that and I don’t particularly have anything else I want to hang on the wall.
kc esq
Do you have a powder room? Weirdly, people actually have more time to look at your bathroom art and if there’s no shower, it won’t get damaged by steam and the proportions will be better than a big room. Or try the end of a hallway or right by the front door.
ITDS
Hang it on a small wall? Don’t put it by itself over the sofa. My house has small walls between doorway and closet in the bedroom, in the front hall, outside the kitchen. All are great for those little pieces of art.
anon
This. Or, place on a piece of furniture and lean against wall (dresser, short book case, chest of drawers) next to other decorative items so it doesn’t seem alone but still stands out.
anonshmanon
Can you find a smaller stretch of wall, in the kitchen, or a bit of wall between two windows? Then the frame itself is framed a little bit.
Placing a picture above a dresser gives it some visual support; also I have a single shelf which is more decorative than functional, it holds a potted plant plus one leaning picture frame plus one knick knack.
Alternatively, you could hang it on a door?
Dulcinea
My boyfriend is a professional picture framer, and for this type of thing they often use a much larger mat than you would expect, and a dark or bold colored frame, so the art can be hung by itself on a wall. Go to a real frame shop (not a chain) and they can help you pick something that will let your art shine.
kels
You could amp it up with a really large mat so the overall frame would be good-sized enough to stand alone. Apartment Therapy suggests this now and then.
Anon
I am considering making the transition from tax accounting to becoming a financial planner. The company I currently work for may lay me off soon due to the downturn in O&G (I work as an in house tax accountant). I’ve been talking with a friend of mine who has been in the financial planning business for 10+ years. His business is booming and he has more clients than he and his partner can handle on their own. I’ve always been interested in the field and am drawn to more client facing roles (corp. tax is the opposite of client facing). He said he thinks I’d be fine with my CPA license initially but that I should plan on getting my CFP after 2 years. Anyone have any insight into any of this??
Also, I’m heading to an informational interview type situation at his office next week to really get a feel for the day to day feel of the position. I’m going to spend a couple hours with him walking through exactly what he does for his client. Every time I’ve had lunch with him he’s in a full suit so I feel like at a minimum I should wear maybe a sheath dress with a coordinating (not matching) jacket. Do you all agree or am I overthinking this? I think I should present myself as “if you hire me I know how to dress for a business professional environment”.
So what color jacket should I wear with a black sheath dress? I’m terrible at these sorts of things. There’s a light purple one I like from The Limited. Does that work?
ITDS
I think black with a light purple jacket sounds really unique and sharp.
Anon
I have light purple stone with light gold Kendra Scott earrings. They aren’t the large dangling ones, but rather the very small dangling. Is the rule for professional dress no dangling earrings? Should I just wear pearl studs?
Shopaholic
No the purple earrings sound gorgeous! Wear those!
Senior Attorney
I have been wearing dangly earrings at work ever since I saw Allison Janney rocking them as CJ Cregg on “The West Wing.” Wear them!
Idea
You should really separate these 2 questions, please! I totally skipped the first paragraph and then was blindsided by the answers to the second question.
AZCPA
I’m a CPA specializing in tax, and I’ve worked in house as well as in public accounting. I have strong relationships with a number of financial planners so I’ve seen their day to day, and my guess is that if you have enjoyed much about your career thus far, you’d be miserable as a financial planner. It’s a lot of hustling for sales for a lot of them. Have you considered going to a public accounting firm – you’d get a lot of client facing opportunities yet still be able to use the knowledge and certification you already have.
Though if you think you are interested, do the informational interview – it can’t hurt. But if they wear suits to work, you really should wear one too. Financial planning is heavily male-dominated and traditional in terms of clothing. so while I agree that a black sheath with light purple jacket would look nice and be “unique and sharp” that isn’t what you are going for.
Anon
Thanks AZCPA. I was hoping you would comment! I worked in public for 5 years and while I liked the work the hours requirements just aren’t for me. I moved to corporate to get away from the hours and it’s been great in that respect but I miss the client interaction aspect. I have 15 month old twins and can’t commit to insane hours so going back to public in any kind of capacity just gives me anxiety just thinking about it. I am considering working part-time for a local boutique type firm that a friend works for. I just worry that they will pressure me to work more hours than I want to. Whatever I do, I’m planning on making my expectations clear going into a new position regarding hours and hopefully I can be paid on an hourly basis…I’ve heard too many part-time salary horror stories. Any further input/insight you have would be greatly appreciated!
What kind of hourly contract rate do you think I could realistically get in public?? I have a wide range of experience and would classify myself as a very light manager.
Another CPA
I have sort of an unusual set up, but it works well for me. I work in the estates and trusts department of a law firm. They do in-house tax prep for many of the trusts they administer. This has blossomed into a healthy side business for the firm, but since we are not the ones bringing in the clients, the requirements are a lot less steep than in public accounting. There are a handful of CPAs and a handful other other folks who’ve done taxes for years but aren’t CPAs.
We do tax prep for the trusts, the individuals who get K-1s from the trusts, their private foundations, and small family businesses. I have client contact, but am not responsible for any business development. There is no upward mobility but also no billable hour goal. I get paid $31 an hour in a LCOL area. I dont work more than 10 hours a week overtime during spring busy season, and only really needed to come in once or twice on a Saturday. I don’t know how common this setup is among law firms, but I would recommend putting out feelers, because you never know what’s out there.
Anon
$31 on contract or as an employee?? I’m currently at $75 as a contractor and I don’t think I’ll be able to find that elsewhere.
Another CPA
As a w-2 employee. I don’t have as much experience as you do though. I’m in my 4th year.
AZCPA
I think Another’s CPA’s situation is the sort of thing that might work well for you. It’s actually pretty common based on the firms I’ve worked with. Also, in my experience (15 years now) the chargeable hours expectation vary widely between firms – going to a Big 4 or other national firm I think would be rough, with the sort of hours demands and pressure to work more than you are concerned about. But at a small firm or boutique firm that can be very different.
Most accounting firms and law firms will put you on payroll even at part time (though paying hourly vs salary shouldn’t be an issue). If you have a specialty or two you can leverage (like if the firm needs an oil & gas specialist since that’s what you are coming from) you can command a higher rate. As you are part time, most firms will be unlikely to bring you in as a manager, so you’d probably be in a high end senior type role. Pay will vary tons based on firm size and your location, so can’t really comment specifically on that.
Considering pay, if you do decide to pursue the financial planning job, make sure you understand pay structure and expectations. If it is based on clients you manage it could be quite a while until you see a decent check. Pressure to cover clients can also be crazy, especially if the firm already have more than they can manage, so the hours might not be what you hope for.
Anon
Oh also, my friend has assured me that his firm does not make sales calls and they really do no marketing. That’s what turned me off of financial planning for so long – the sales aspect. He said they get so many referrals from existing clients that they’re have a really hard time servicing their existing clients plus the clients that are being referred to them….hence their need to hire another person. It definitely sounds like a unique firm.
Snick
I’m planning an August vacation in Seattle for our family of four (kids are young teens). I’m hoping to rent a 2-3 bedroom house through Airbnb or similar. I’ve never been to Seattle and could really use some help identifying neighborhoods/areas that would be fun to stay in. We will have a rental car but would like to be in a walkable neighborhood with shops and restaurants, not downtown, close to water/parks/hiking would be a plus. Thanks for suggestions!
Long ago Seattle resident
I would try for Greenlake, Ballard, or Madison Park.
Annie
Fremont, Ballard, Green Lake, Phinney Ridge, and Greenwood are all nice areas to the northwest of the ship canal. Magnolia is close to Discovery Park, and has a cute downtown with a farmers market on Saturdays. Queen Anne would be walkable to Seattle Center.
cbackson
I think Ballard would be the best for what you’re looking for (it used to be its own city, so it has a full-blown walkable downtown area – not just a block or two of shops, and it’s close to the Ballard Locks and Golden Gardens Park), but make sure the place you rent is relatively close to Market Street. Ballard is a really large neighborhood, and if you’re up on 85th, for example, you’re not going to be really walkable to downtown.
Tetra
Any opinions on foundation garments/shapewear for your wedding dress? I’m trying to decide how much to do. I don’t want to be terribly uncomfortable all night, but I do want to look my best for pictures. Thanks!
Daisy
Not a great answer, but I’d say it depends on the dress material and structure. My dress was generally forgiving and also extremely hot (things you learn at your first dress fitting…) so my initial plans to wear Spanx or something went out the window fast.
Annie
The lady I worked with at my dress shop (who was amazing and whose opinion I totally trust) advised against wearing Spanx or anything. Her point was that those garments suck you in at the waist by squeezing things and dislocating things upward. So your waist would end up smaller, but everything north of that ends up bigger. For me, I clearly didn’t want that because I was wearing a strapless gown. I just wore some panties under my gown.
So, keep in mind that wearing shapewear might not make you look your best. Regardless, if you do decide to wear something, make sure you have it on when you’re getting fitted.
Senior Attorney
My wedding dress is just a regular evening gown and fairly forgiving, and I’m skipping the foundation garments and going with a really good bra and normal panties. For my first wedding many many moons ago I did Full Corset and I don’t feel like it was worth the discomfort.
Anonymous
I wore a normal bra and underwear. My dress was poofy so I didn’t feel like i had to have my stomach sucked in and my dress had straps so a regular bra was completely covered. I loved being comfortable!
lawsuited
I didn’t wear any shapewear (and not because I’m a size 0 – I’m plus size) on my wedding day, and it was a really, really good decision. I was a lot more comfortable (wedding dresses are not exactly comfortable to begin with), had a lot more fun, and my fantastic photographer still got a lot of very flattering shots.
Maddie Ross
Agree with the others. No shapewear. I had a strapless bra built into my dress (married over 10 years ago, so strapless was still all the rage back then). Wore fun blue panties for my something blue. And was comfy as can be to eat, drink and dance.
Senior Attorney
Oh! Good idea about the blue panties!
Cat
I wore a corset style bra and was delighted with it (Wacoal was the brand). I wore a strapless floor length sheath dress, and had snaps sewn into the corset so that my dress would snap onto it. I didn’t have to do any of the dreaded “hoist the dress” all day!
lslsls
This is exactly what I want, although my wedding is two years out so I have time to shop. Do you mind posting the name of the Wacoal bra style?
Cat
Unfortunately it appears to have been discontinued (my wedding was almost 10 years ago!) — here is a link to what it looked like. You might try searching “long line bra” too, as that seems to be the more popular term as opposed to corset.
http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=10616514
Diana Barry
Ask your alterations person. My dress was structured and she built in cups so I didn’t need to wear anything (it was strapless) and then I wore control top nylons – it was cold out so I didn’t mind them for once. :)
Meg March
Definitely ask the alterations people– they are sewing cups into my dress, so my undergarments will literally just be panties.
Anon
I’m going to be the one person to disagree with everyone else. I wore a ballgown so bottoms didnt really matter, but I feel that the corset was a great addition. The store I went to did the initial fitting with a corset they sell there, and then when I came back with the great strapless bra I had bought, the dress just didn’t look as nice. Seams looked like they were puckered or something. The corset smoothed everything out (I’m plus size so there’s no pretending it made me tiny, but smoothness was what I was going for), and it definitely made me stand with my back straighter, which always looks so much nicer (especially for pictures!).
I didn’t really notice it once I had the dress on for awhile.
Sydney Bristow
I wore Spanx, mainly so my thighs don’t rub, but I wear them every day at work so it’s not uncomfortable to me.
I think comfort is important on your wedding day and presumably you’ll already be wearing something that feels different than normal. If you go with shape wear, I’d try to wear it a few times to get used to it. If you just aren’t comfortable, I’d go without.
anne-on
I wore a long-line bra with normal undies (I had a ballgown, so you weren’t going to notice panty lines or anything). One thing that I didn’t think of until after – my photographer was in the room as my bridesmaids and mom were getting me into my dress, and the long line white bra was very modest for those pictures (and I didn’t feel naked in front of her or anything).
Anon
I wore Spanx pantyhose, but it was winter so I needed the slight bit of warmth. I wear control top hose all the time, so I was happy to have them on. Bonus, I put them on during the getting ready in little white robe part and I look so smooth and bomb in the robe, as opposed to what I normally look like in a thin satin robe.
Get the shapewear with the hole for peeing though…otherwise you’ll have to pull your dress all the way up to get it down.
Bonnie
No foundation garments. Have the bra sewn in if possible and wear cotton (but cute) undies. You want to ge comfortable and the dress alone will make you hot.
Wendy
I’ve had two weddings many years apart. For both I wore my regular white bra and panties. For the first, I also wore white lace stockings and nude pantyhose for the second which was just last August.
Christina
I actually found that not wearing spanx (or other heavy shapewear) was the way to go. The thick fabric would catch on the lining of my dress, so it didn’t lay right. Plus, it smushed my body the wrong way and kinda made me a smooth rectangle instead of a slightly bumpy hourglass. So, I’m doing a pair of light control pantyhose (I figure it’ll help with chafing) and a longline ivory bra: http://www.herroom.com/carnival-206-invisible-plunge-longline-bra.shtml
Wendy
The light control pantyhose and longline bra sound perfect for you…and congratulations on your wedding!
Engie
Nothing but perfume. My dress had straps.
AnonForThis
Need a trip-gift recommendation! We’re (the board) giving a big surprise gift to a husband and wife team who’ve served our organization as staff for 25 years – they love to travel (internationally as well) and are very active people, so I’m not sure I want to go with the offhand suggestion of a spa weekend. For $4000 – $6000, what would you suggest – roughly? (I’ve sent a message to their sons for inspiration as well)
Anonymous
An airline gift card or credit. That they can use to go where ever they want.
AnonForThis
I’m thinking we might need to do that, but it seems so impersonal. Plus then they won’t have the money to use for lodging etc.
Anonymous
What’s the alternative though? You’re going to actually book them a trip? Even assuming you checked with the sons and got dates that work from them, that seems so risky. They may not like where you’ve decided to send them. They may have a preferred airline where they have status and you may send them on the wrong one. The hotels may be too fancy or not fancy enough. I don’t see how you can do anything except a gift card in this situation, unless you know these people ridiculously well.
(Hotel chains have gift cards too, so just get some combo of airline gift cards and hotel gift cards. If you want to be slightly less impersonal and if and ONLY IF you know they like cruising, get them a gift card for their favorite cruise line. Still gives them a lot of flexibility but you’ve had more say in what they’ll do.)
Anonymous
Active people probably are going to want some say in what they do. Gift cards all the way.
Cat
Yeah, half the fun of traveling is planning! I personally would hate to be surprised with a specific trip.
I would LOVE having a company say “surprise! We’d love to contribute to your love of travel… plan your next trip now and $5,000 of it is on us.” They may use it to give themselves a “free” vacation or may use it to subsidize an otherwise cost prohibitive trip like a luxe safari or Antarctic cruise or something.
Anon
Yeah, maybe just give them a Visa gift card?
Ms B
Where are you located? If in the Midwest, maybe Blackberry Farm?
Anonymous
Why don’t you see if you can make an arrangement with a local travel agent for some kind of “travel credit” — its a bit more specific than “Visa gift card” but would still give them the flexibility to work out the planning, airlines, hotels, destination choice etc.
Anon for This
Harsh Realization: I went from biglaw to clerkship to in house. I’m used to working tough, long hours and not having my own needs met, but I think it is becoming a problem.
The past four months have been some of the most difficult of my life. My husband was hospitalized twice (totaling 3+ weeks) over that period for complications resulting from underlying autoimmune conditions and he had accompanying intense outpatient appointments following his discharges. I work full time and have two little kiddos. And this has been a miserable winter for kid-borne illnesses (I have now been puked on by both children). I took almost no time off during this and negotiated a new, large client for my company. My boss was understanding and moderately accommodating, but as I look back, I realize how little I stood up for myself and my own needs during this time. I was so beaten down that I feel like I needed someone to tell me to take some time to take care of myself. No one did, so I just powered through. I know that my boss and my colleagues are not my family, but I think I expected someone, at some point, to let me know that it was ok to take some time off (instead, my boss issued me a company laptop to work from the hospital). In house is, without a doubt, more friendly and life accommodating than biglaw, but I still feel like the life has been sucked from me. Not sure what I am looking for here. Do I need a kick in the pants that it is my job to take care of myself (and not to expect others to give me that permission)?
CountC
First, let me say that I am sorry you had all of that going on and I hope that your husband (and kids) are doing well now.
Second, KICK. Yes, it is up to you and no one else to take care of yourself and ask for what you need. It’s hard, I get it. It t0ok me a long time to learn that I was doing a disservice to the people I was trying to help by attempting to take care of everything (but myself) and leaving no time for me. However, now that I have learned to say no, to ask for what I need, and to take care of myself, my overall health has improved, my mood is much better and less likely to fluctuate abruptly, and I am much happier. Please, take care of yourself!
Anonymous
While it would be nice if your boss and/or colleagues cared for you this way, reality is, most do not. In all my years of working, I have exactly ONE colleague (then my senior associate when I was a mid), who looked out for my health and well being. That shows you how rare they are.
Senior Attorney
I’m so sorry — that all sounds awful!
And yes. Your boss is going to work you as hard as you let him. It is okay to take some time off under the circumstances you describe, and you do need to stand up for yourself and take it.
Many years ago somebody told me “you have perquisites to the extent you are willing to exercise them.” You’ve shown your worth — now exercise your right to take care of yourself.
LLBMBA
Yup – I had c dificil as a junior associate and worked through it (I was on medication and not contagious). I thought that if it really warranted taking time off, someone would tell me to go home. No one did.
Anonymous
Ugh, my sympathies. I had c. diff as 3L and it was rough even then.
Idea
Yeah, the only time they’ll tell you to go home is if you might be contaigous to them.
Although I was sending emails at 1-4 am and my boss told me to go to sleep. But the client was glad I’m up.
Take a vacation. You need it. Can the kids stay with a grandparent or you go to a resort with a kids club or something? Or plan it for early fall, even after school’s started – it sounds like they’re young enough they won’t miss much and they’ll enjoy the time with mom (and dad if he’s available).
Frozen Peach
Hugs. I’m bad about this too, and learning this lesson has been the single most important one of my career. Most employers will take and take and take until you say no. But usually, when you say no, they say “ok cool.” You need a break! If it were me, and I had the vacation time to take, I’d be scheduling at least two weeks of vacation this summer. Some without kids.
Anon0321
+1. Also, coming from the management/supervisor side- I think your boss expects you to tell them when you’ve reached your limit (in terms of hours, workload, whatever) and will think everything is fine until you do, even if they are aware of extenuating circumstances. Definitely take a vacation if you can, even if it’s just some days at home to rest.
Meg Murry
Hugs to you. Yes, unfortunately, sometimes no one is going to say “stay home”. Possibly your boss or co-workers were hinting to you with questions like “are you ok?” or “do you have this?” – but most companies are stretched so thin that they aren’t going to say “please don’t come to work, we’ll all cover for you” unless you ask.
If you didn’t when your husband got sick – please go talk to you HR department about the process for taking FMLA – what paperwork they need, and where you need to turn it in, etc. After having gone through other family crises, my new motto and advice is “if you think there is any chance you’ll need to take FMLA, get the paperwork done early – because you don’t want to wait to deal with paperwork until you’re in the middle of the major crisis point”.
The hardest thing for me to learn when I was a new parent and had formerly been a healthy high acheiver and know-it-all was how to stop saying “Oh, I’m fine, I’ve got this, don’t worry about me” and learning to say “Help! Something is wrong” or “I’m in over my head” or “I’m just barely holding on by my fingernails here, so I’d appreciate any help you can give me” or even just “I’m feeling really unsure, can you just sit here and let me cry and tell me everything is going to be ok”. This was a lesson I had to learn both as a parent and as an employee – how to ask for help, and how to say “I can’t take on anything more right now” or “to take that on, I’m going to need to drop something else”.
How is your relationship with your mother, and is she still working or has she retired? Because if it wouldn’t drive you crazy, it sounds like you could really use some mothering yourself. Would it be crazy to ask her or another relative to come stay with your for a week or two and just help you get your life back in order? Or I have a friend that has started having her teenage cousin come visit for long weekends in the summer to work as a mother’s helper and play with the kids so she can have a little bit of time to breathe.
Hugs to you. When it rains, it pours, so I hope things are turned around now and the worst is behind your for a while.
anon
DH returned from a 10-day trip last night. I was really excited to see him, left work early, picked up dinner on my way home, etc. But then everything he did annoyed me. I recognize that the problem was me, not him, but I was just really cranky about being asked about childcare updates he’s missed, being asked to help with tasks I’ve been soloing for 10 days, sharing space, and compromising on what to watch and when to go to bed. Not really the reunion I wanted or expected. Usually we spend all our free time together (although we don’t have that much free time), and we get along great. 10 days is by far the longest we’ve been apart in over 10 years. Has anyone else experienced this, especially after having significant time away from their SO?
Anon
This happens to me when my husband is really busy at work during the week. When he’s suddenly “Super Dad” on Saturday mornings, it makes me crazy after I’ve just spent the last week grinding through childcare. We’ve had some major fights on Saturday afternoon. I’ve had to be pro-active with telling him that I need a break, and to ask him to take over the tasks. Being more self-aware makes me realize I need to hear “You’ve been crushing it all week! THank you for covering so much, now go take a break.” And that my relationship is such that I needed to tell my husband this. Once I did (and remind him if needed), we are back on track – no more Saturday afternoon fights.
Spirograph
This is why the military does reintegration workshops for families after a deployment. It is HARD to readjust to coupled after time apart, esp when you’ve developed routines to cope with kids on your own. Totally normal, don’t feel bad about it!
Anonymous
Even with those workshops, it is HARD.
I posted a long time ago about having a husband who traveled for months at a time and then has months at home (the responses really ran the gamut!). I actively try to stop myself from getting all huffy when he returns and makes comments about how X needs to be done, but hey- I work full time plus, have a small kid, house, and a dog and live half my life as a solo parent.
If it makes you feel better, we’ve been living the together/apart life for many years and it gets easier with time. I remember when we were dating, it would take us about 2 weeks to get back into our ‘groove’. Now, it’s probably 4 hours.
Senior Attorney
Yes. My former husband traveled a lot and it was always rocky when he came home. I’m sure you’ll be back in the groove in no time!
Anon
My husband went out of town for a wedding for one night and it was still hard (didn’t help that everything went to he!! in a handbasket the hour before he got home). I made sure the baby was napping when he got home, handed him the baby monitor when he walked in, and told him I was going to the grocery store. Getting out of the house alone (even just for an hour to do a chore) after being with the baby non-stop for 36 hours really helped me mentally re-set and I was in a much better place when I got home.
Anonymous
I travel frequently and my husband travels infrequently. When I am the one returning from a trip, I am usually exhausted from travel, but somewhat refreshed by the time alone and happy to see my family. On the other hand, on those rare occasions when my husband travels and I am left alone with the kid, I really enjoy the solo time with our kid and the chance to address my own priorities (e.g., household chores that my husband thinks I shouldn’t waste my time on), and there is always a little bit of a letdown when he comes home. When your spouse is gone, you really realize how much compromise and catering to someone else’s needs and wants is involved in daily married life. It’s okay and will pass quickly.
Anon
Not trying to be all woe is me but Trump as president will be terrible for Muslims – and I don’t even do hijab and not everyone knows I’m muslim. Granted many people can separate the crazy ones from the normal ones but I know many are also thinking – well – she seems normal but how do I REALLY know she’s normal, maybe her faith will always come first (not about me – just generally). And Trump just fuels those thoughts bc when a presidential candidate can think like that, then of course you can too.
LostInTranslation
Not a Muslim but I feel the same way.
Anon
I’m sorry, this is truly a shame. I hope you are not impacted by this and can be as open about your religion as you want, although this is already wishful thinking.
I really thought we had gotten most of the explicit racism, sexism, bigotry over with (obviously I knew it still existed, just thought it was more the unusual exception), and this election has proven me completely wrong. It is very sad.
Anon
Yes I live abroad and watching this election has been an experience. It has really exposed a dark heart of American culture. It makes me sad because our country truly has a lot of great things going for it, but this is a problem that really must be solved for our future to be good.
anon
I’m sorry this is hard for you. I’m not muslim, but I am a minority and I’ve felt similarly about some things in the past. I hope he doesn’t win, but his antics expose to well-meaning but ignorant people that racism, anti-Muslim sentiment, sexism etc are all alive and well, and we haven’t come as far as we’d like to think.
Ru
I feel you, except I *do* wear hijab. It’s a bizarre feeling. I know that people censor themselves around me. It’s just uncomfortable being in your own skin. The joys of being a visible minority, I suppose.
I’m sure 50 years from now, we’ll look back at this point in time as the Second Civil Rights Age or something. But we have to work really hard so that when a blowhard appears, everyone will shrug off bigotry and deny bigots their influence. Until then, I will have to go on my merry way making people uncomfortable with my presence until they become comfortable with people like me and you.
I’ve said this often and I’ll say it here, too, f9ck all Muslim men for being in the workplace before Muslim women and not sharing who and what they are to people so now the social activism falls on women exclusively. I shouldn’t be the “first” Muslim someone has ever come across. And also f9ck anyone who listens to bigoted comments and doesn’t say anything to address it – it doesn’t matter that you have no proverbial skin in the game. Hate breeds hate and we all have to work to take it down, just like we would with sex!st or racist comments. This situation falls on ALL of us.
Anonon
Ditto only replace Muslim with Lesbian.
anon0321
TJ- TLDR- Have any of you done LD w your spouse? How did you manage? Esp w/ a child?
My husband found out he was going to be laid off just as I gave birth to our first daughter. That was 8 months ago and although he’s been on lots of interviews, he hasn’t landed any offers. This last week, he was offered an amazing job, working for the feds in DC.
I also have a great job, but if I want to keep it, have to stay in state on the west coast- they have been incredibly supportive about my preg and offer a year of protected leave after birth and are starting to roll out generous paid leave policies as well (which I did not take this time). We plan to have at least 1 (or more) babies within the next 3 years and I would hopefully take advantage of these policies going forward. I can telecommute, but prob not from out of state (going to discuss with my boss this week).
Both of these jobs pay well & pay near to the same amount. We can support 2 households with our paychecks and we’ve got savings & no debt- but we’d be stretching ourselves to do this. Both jobs have 3 weeks vacation and the potential for telecommuting to extend long weekends here & there. We don’t have family within 300 miles of either job.
My husband wants to take the job and I also think it is probably the right move for his career. But I’m not sure it’s the right move for our family- I’m scared. I love my husband, will miss him, and I am scared of caring for our young daughter alone (she would probably stay with me, but he has said she can go with him as well). The goal is to try and do this for 2 yrs, to gain a very specific skill set, then transfer to another job.
Has anyone done something like this? Advice? Good idea, bad idea? How did you manage it?
Also- for those working for the feds, what is the possibility of transferring back to the west coast or getting a 100% work remotely job?
Senior Attorney
If you didn’t have a baby I’d say “go for it.” But as far as your daughter is concerned, this will seem very much like a divorce. How will it affect his relationship with her if he is gone for two of the first three years of her life? And if you have another baby, how on earth would you manage alone with a newborn and a toddler with him on the other side of the country?
If I were in your shoes (and not able to telecommute from DC), I think I’d be looking for a job in DC, or tell your husband to limit his search to where you live now.
Sarabeth
Yeah, I would have done this in a heartbeat before my kid was born – and, in fact, did something very similar. Now, there is zero chance. I can’t imagine not living with my own kid for that long. I know people do it, for a variety of reasons, and I’m not judging those decisions. But personally, it would be too much.
Anon0321
The idea is that having a new baby would give me a year off and then I/we could join him- that’s why I mentioned that. We wouldn’t have a baby BECAUSE of this, but it happens to align with what our plan was anyway so is something we might be able to use to our advantage.
I just don’t know many other companies that provide a benefit like that and that’s one reason why I want to hold on if I can.
Anonymous
I say your husband has to take this. He’s been unemployed for 8 months and this is his first offer/first good offer. It is sometimes easier to get a job when you have a job, so if your goal is ultimately be together and on the west coast, then 6 months into this job, he needs to start searching for his next gig on the west coast — with the story of, I took this job to gain x experience and I’m gaining it, but family-wise I need to be back to the west coast and not in a commuter marriage. Hopefully within 6-12 months of job searching something comes up that brings him back. So just ask yourselves whether you can do this for 12-18 months.
anon0321
Ya, that’s the thing- he has a STELLAR resume and hasn’t been able to land something… this would be what we would be trying to do. I’ve had a headache all week trying to figure out all of our options and all of them make me want to cry.
Anonymous
Yeah — I’ve commented several times on this thread including above — he HAS to take it. Things are tough in law right now and the longer he’s out, the harder it gets — he has to take it.
anon0321
Thanks :). There is a 90% chance he will take it.. I just was hoping I’d hear from others who have done it and made it work. I’m not feeling great about the situation.
Scarlett
Counterpoint though – you haven’t said what level your husband is, the higher you go, the longer it takes to find a comparable job. It’s not uncommon for a search to take 12-18 months at a senior level. Personally, I wouldn’t be up for a long distance marriage with or without a kid.
Anon0321
He’s the equivalent of a 6th year associate. He’s only been officially laid off since Feb, but has known about this happening since Sept- we were able to prep & he tried to get a new job, but nothing worked out. I’m not sure what the avg time length is to get a new job in this situation, but the interviews since Feb have been few and far between.
Anonymous
I’m a big proponent of couples doing long-distance for their careers. I’ve done it and most of our close couple friends (we’re in academia, where it’s almost impossible NOT to do long distance at some point) have done it too. But the baby is a huge factor. Living apart from your spouse is totally different than living apart from your spouse while effectively being a single parent. Obviously, it’s a huge burden on you, and I imagine it would be very hard on your DH as well, being apart from you guys and missing all the milestones in your daughter’s first year of life. Not sure it would really affect your daughter – you’d need to consult a doctor or psychologist about that, but I will say my husband’s father lived across the country for the first 5 years or so of his life, and they’re really close and my husband says he doesn’t even really remember his father being gone. So my guess is that she’s young enough that it wouldn’t affect her. It would be brutal on you guys though, especially with no nearby family. My gut says don’t take it because of the baby. Otherwise I would say definitely go for it.
anon0321
They have fortunately had the last 8 months to bond very closely (the 1 upside of the layoff!) and we are very tight knight and come from tight knit families… but the idea of (almost) being a single parent scares me. I had some light PPD and finally feel like I’m normal again. I don’t know how I would handle having 100% responsibility 100% of the time. Esp without family close by.
Anonymous
I just mentioned above that I’m the poster who talked about having a husband who travels at long stretches (think 2-5 months at a time) to places where communication is sometimes not an option. I have a kid and do the solo parent life for half the year and I don’t think this scenario sounds like a good option for you.
Living a bi-coastal life with a kid where the ‘hope’ (not guarantee) is that it will be limited to two years sounds rough. I think you need to have a serious talk with your husband and figure out a way where you can both live and work in the same place.
Also, the life I live and the vague grasp on sanity that I maintain are only possible because we live near family and the GREATEST network of non-blood related aunties/uncles the world has EVER known. Seriously, I have a list of friends who have picked my kid up from daycare when I just got stuck in a meeting that I could not miss or watched the baby while I got a haircut or the occasional overnight at Gma and Gpa’s when mom just. needs. a. break. For me, that and the fact that you’re not certain it’s a two year commitment are the dealbreakers.
…Unless you’re in academia and you’re both getting offered tenure track positions at top schools. In that case, all bets are off and you should JUMP ON IT.
Anonymous
If this is universities with tenure track — jump on it — you will build a network of poor grad students who’ll be very willing to babysit and you’ll make other friends in a college town as they tend to be tight knit. Somehow I don’t think that’s it though.
Sarabeth
I don’t know, I have friends in this exact situation – tenured at different universities, with two young kids – and they are totally miserable and trying desperately to find a way to live in the same place. So even then, I wouldn’t do it.
Anonymous
Yeah, as an academic, with a spouse who is also an academic, I disagree with this. Take postdocs apart, with the goal of reuniting when you get faculty positions. Don’t take faculty positions on opposite sides of the country. For one thing, at the faculty level, you’ll have some leverage to get your spouse a position at your own institution. Most people I know have been able to get their spouse at least a lectureship, which might not be a dream job but is probably worth taking to keep a family together, especially if there are kids involved. And for another, being apart as faculty is so depressing because there’s no end date in sight.
anon0321
We are lawyers- and he has a stellar resume, but has had difficulty getting a new job. Lots of interviews when he was still @ the firm (& knew he had an end date for the layoff), but basically none since. And we have worked every network we can think of.
We went to the same school but I have a less stellar resume. I’m scared if I leave, I’ll never find a good job again.
Scarlett
What about one of you going solo? In this case, I’d say your husband since that wouldn’t involve new bar exams, moving & you could stay put. I think it’s an often overlooked option, but a really good one. It might not result in overnight income replacement, but over time it often works out and lets you stay in the same location.
Anon0321
We’ve talked about it in the past, but it would be a good idea to revisit that idea- thanks for the reminder.
Anonymous
As for feds working 100% remotely or from a west coast office — it very much depends on the agency, the group w/I the agency, and then your boss. In some agencies there is NO working from home ever and no working from other offices. In some agencies it can be allowed, but you may be in a group where your immediate boss doesn’t allowed. In your DH’s case though, they know they’re hiring someone from the west coast who will likely want to work from home some — so hopefully they’re a bit more flexible. In my agency/group, there is no remote work at all for the first yr. After that you can work remotely, but no more than 2 days a week. And you can’t work from a different office. So that scenario wouldn’t be great for you but better than nothing — if DH was working from home every Friday and Monday and then traveling Monday night to be in DC thru Thursday night. But keep in mind — this isn’t consulting — the costs of this will add up QUICK.
CPA Lady
Debbie Downer, reporting for duty! I took care of our daughter alone 5 days of the week every week of the first 15 months of her life. We dont have any family in town either. It almost broke me/our marriage/and was insanely expensive because we had to hire a babysitter any time I worked overtime. I didn’t have friends or hobbies or a life. Because to do any of those things was to hire yet more babysitters. The ONLY way I would recommend this course of action would be if you could have your mom (or whatever family member is most helpful) basically move in across the street and drop everything to help you. Otherwise, no, especially not for 2 years, and especially not when your kid is at such a labor-intensive stage. If he absolutely insists on taking the job, I agree with the idea that he needs to continue job searching/start searching again immediately.
Anonymous
+1 The only scenario under which I see this working is if you have live-in help, whether it’s a family member or someone you pay.
anon0321
We do have a very lucky situation w/ childcare. A woman across the street watches her during the day & is flexible for off hours & weekends. My parents are about 2 yrs from retirement, so they can’t move here, but have offered to help when they can. My mom’s a teacher too so summer & breaks are esp flexible for her. But yea, not ideal. I’m worried I’m going to look back at this moment and say- how could I have made the decision to do this to my family? Also conversely, if my husband can’t find a job another year from now- the same question but in reverse. It’s getting hard on him not to be employed. We are both the type of people that get a lot of personal satisfaction from working and it is very hard on us not to be working/making money.
Anonymous
He HAS to take this job. If it’s been 8 months w/o an offer, who knows how long it’ll be until the next offer? He can even take it with you and him agreeing that this job is to be as short tenured as possible so he can come back to the west coast asap — but I think it will be easier to get another offer when he’s not having to explain why he isn’t working. When would he start? If he starts this summer, isn’t that covered by your mom anyway? And the lady across the street seems like a godsent. I think you and this lady could make it work for the 6-18 months until DH is back to a regular job and living in your home again.
anon0321
But ya, scarred this will break me.
SC
I recognize that this is not what you want to hear, but… My mom worked long distance for one year when I was 6. It was only 3 hours away, and she came home every weekend. I was too young to understand, and it was really hard on me. I stopped socializing and tried to cling to my teacher at recess. My teacher suggested all sorts of tests and evaluations and therapy (my parents told me years later, in a “haha, isn’t that ridiculous?” way, not in a “maybe you had a really tough time with that” way). The issues resolved themselves when we moved and we’re all together again (I think), but I still think this will be very hard on a child. All that said, I’m not saying, don’t do it. My mom soent that year doing a prestigious fellowship that put her in an excellent place career-wise, and i believe it was 100% worth it in terms of her career advancement and satisfaction and her ability to provide for her family.
Anon0321
I think if she were 6, we probably wouldn’t do this. I think it would affect a younger child less? Maybe I’m naive in that idea? We have discussed that if she was negatively affected and started having any sort of issues, we’d pull the plug immediately. Thanks for sharing your experience, the insight is much appreciated.
Alana
As a Fed, the strongest, fastest* reason for changing locations is to be with one’s spouse and baby, according to what I’ve seen over the years. Does this agency have offices in your area, or did your husband get a HQ-only job?
*fast = weeks, rather than months or years
anon0321
It is a new-ish headquarter position. But they did make that accommodation for someone else in a nearby dept. They know I have a job here, but I think they think I am moving.
Is this something you talk about before accepting the firm offer or after you’ve gotten to know people after a couple of months? Seriously, any advice much appreciated. I want to make this work if it all possible- but I need a game plan and a time frame otherwise I think I will go crazy.
Anonymous
Meaning should your DH discuss it now or later? I would NOT discuss it now. He’s been unemployed for 8 months and doesn’t have much leverage. He needs to take the job, do well at it for a few months, and THEN when he gets to know his bosses — talk about how you’re having a hard time finding a job in DC (even if you aren’t looking) and explore ideas to transfer to an office in Cali (if one exists) or telework almost full time. Though you have to think thru what you’ll do if his bosses — who I assume are also lawyers say — oh, I heard XYZ firm is looking and I have a contact there, tell your wife to send me her resume. It doesn’t sound like you guys want to move to DC. In any event, if I were your DH I’d take this job now and negotiate re telework etc. later.
Anon0321
Thanks, this is very helpful.
Anonymous
This is not at all a popular opinion on this site, but if you have the income to support 2 households on two incomes, why don’t you go down to one income for one household & follow him to DC. Have your 2nd baby then return to the workforce in a couple of years? Will be hard in a different way (and definitely harder on your career) … but seems so much more viable than being thousands of miles apart.
Anonymous
Or why not have him take over the stay at home parent role, since he’s unemployed and OP has a good job?
Frozen Peach
What about Counsel on Call? I would personally say, move to DC and stay together. From an attachment perspective, you can’t get those early childhood years back. But there are increasingly tons of options for competent lawyers to make money without having a traditional job….
http://counseloncall.com/
Anon0321
Never heard of this- sounds like an interesting option! Thanks!
Anon0321
This has certainly an option on the table that we’ve discussed and may be what we ultimately go with. It’s not my fave option for the reasons below:
The thing is- both of us are the type of people that really like working. I’ve been unemployed in the past and nearly went crazy. He’s unemployed now and deeply unsatisfied.
Being a SAHP is a lot of work and requires a certain kind of personality, and while we love our daughter, it’s just not either of our thing.
Also, because of the uncertainness of the economy, I prefer the safety net of having 2 jobs. If one of us loses our job (like just happened), we have the other job to live off of.
It also took a lot of work to get where I’m at currently, and I don’t think it would be that easy to exit & re-enter the workplace. My goal is to manage some semblance of hanging in for the next 5-10 years and then rev up again when my kids are more independent. Also, like I said, my job allows 1 year of leave for pregnancies. We are probably planning on trying to get pregnant again at the end of 2017, so that would give us 1 year apart & 1 year together– and then hopefully at that point we’d have more experience and options on both sides.
Thanks guys for giving me a place to sound off- it’s really helping me clarify what I think we need to do.
Ally McBeal
Why not get pregnant right away, and then spend your year of leave living with DH in Washington DC?
Anonymous
Thoughts on negotiating when you’re taking a huge pay cut to move to a field that pays way less? I understand negotiation is expected by many employers and men pretty much always do it, but I’m currently making about three times what I’ve been offered in this new field and new employer seemed really shocked when I disclosed my current salary (in response to their query). So I’m really hesitant to push for more money because I don’t want to seem out of touch or like I don’t understand the fact that this new field is way, way lower-paying. Benefits are phenomenal, and the boss is very flexible on telecommuting so there’s nothing I’d want to negotiate except actual dollars.
Wildkitten
Ask for slightly more than they offer. Don’t mention your current salary during negotiations. Good luck.
Anonymous
Perhaps discuss their salary range for the position and see where you’d fall in line with that, and do some research to ensure that their salary range is commensurate with others in the industry.
APC
I did this and tried to negotiate. I was told the offer was as high as possible for the position. I’ll never know if that was 100% true, but ultimately my decision was more made on the change in industries and the acceptance that if this was what I wanted to do, this was the ‘cost’ of doing it. I don’t regret the switch or the pay cut (though I do still think about all that money I gave up), but I also (from Day 1 in new industry) have been strategizing and thinking about next steps to make more money/get ahead in this industry. FWIW my salary is still a little under industry norms because my company has the gravitas to pay under market and people still apply in droves. I took it for ‘resume value’ and for my future.