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We got this request in over the weekend, and had to weigh in…
I'm a 2L in law school and going to a job fair next weekend, where I have a few interviews. Since getting the interviews and I have been in touch with a friend of a friend who is well connected, and who has called one of my interviewers on my behalf. She mentioned that the interviewer would like to go to lunch with me and herself around the date of my interview, so here is my question: if it is the day of my interview, I'll be in a suit obviously, but if it is before, what would I wear? the lunch would be the first impression, so my instinct would be suit, but that seems formal for a lunch. Thanks for any advice you can give!
Congratulations — this sounds like a great opportunity. We agree that a suit is probably the thing to wear, but thought we'd temper it with a few other thoughts:
- Where does this job rank on your wishlist? If it's the number one job you want, bust out your best interview suit. If it's lower on your wishlist, consider wearing your second-best suit — particularly if the lunch is the day before the job fair (that way, if you spill something on your second-best suit, you still have your power suit to wear to the job fair).
- Consider the context — how senior is your friend who set up the interview? How senior is her friend, the interviewer? Where are you meeting? The more formal the spot (and, yes, the more senior your companions), wear a suit. On the other hand, if they're recent graduates and you're meeting at a trendy or casual spot, you might want to opt in favor of a more casual suit-like outfit (i.e., blazer, trousers, button-front shirt, etc.).
We would suggest treating this luncheon like the interview — read everything on the company's web site, and any other materials you can get your hands on. Hunt online to see what people really think about working at the company — particularly if there's a swarm of bad reviews, you may want to use this lunch to tactfully ask questions of the interviewer and try to determine the truth of the situation. (Be warned that it's generally better to save the “but how would *I* like the job” questions until after you have the offer in hand — but a few well-worded questions can provide insight.) At the same time, don't be afraid to toot your own horn at lunch, and, particularly, to show the personality traits that make you a great employee / team member (or have stories ready to tell that illustrate those traits, should the opportunity arise).
Our other advice would be to try to pay particular attention to details about the interviewer, and mention them later in a friendly (not creepy!) way. For example, if she regales you with her adventures while trying to prepare for an upcoming dinner party, wish her luck with it at your interview the next day, or in your thank-you letter. (Do NOT mention it both times; that gets into the creepy territory.) Finally, you may want to check out our previous tips on the business lunch.
Readers, what are your thoughts?
Anonymous
This is just one girl’s opinion, but if the word “interview” appears anywhere in the question, the answer is – a suit. With a shirt underneath that can hold its own in the event that you remove the jacket at some point.
Goes for interviews, informational interviews, interview lunches, interviews on a Friday when everyone else will be in Friday casual, etc.
meg
one tip – even if the person you are meeting for lunch is relatively junior, don’t be lulled into being too informal or treating this as a social occasion. In our hiring decisions, a severe ding from even the most junior of our associates can turn an offer into a no-go in an instant.
B
Go with your #1 suit. You will appear appropriately professional. And who knows – maybe it will send the message that you have other interviews that day as well.
Delta Sierra
At formal lunches of any kind I try to order, um, tidy food. Ex., no sandwiches that I have to lift up with both hands and chomp into. If salads come with large lettuce leaves, cut them into bite-size pieces. No long, slippery pasta. Especially if I’m at a lunch with an interviewer: I’m under the microscope, and I want any advantage I can get.
Lincoln
Can’t agree more. When I was a 2L I had an interview where I ordered a messy sandwich, which splurted out all over when one tried to bite on it. I was mortified — and didn’t get the job.
The Image Expert
During a business lunch, it is highly advisable to order an item that isn’t messy — though I’m sure that lesson will be etched in your mind forever!
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Emily E
If we’re talking lawyers here, it seems likely the interviewer will be wearing a suit. So wearing anything less than a suit would just look bad. Going with your best suit seems like the obvious answer.
CJ in CA
I’d probably wear a pant suit with a more nice but not too dressy top underneath. IN a worst case scenario you can take your jacket off and you’re just wearing a nice blouse and black slacks. That’s not too formal for ANYTHING. Pants are “more casual” than skirts I think and you’ll seem more comfortable and less dressy, IMO. However, most people won’t think a pant suit is too casual for a business lunch or an interview.
Also, it sounds like you’ve got a friend on the inside- ask her! What would she wear? Even a friend of a friend is probably willing to answer this question assuming she’s female. I’ve found that “what to wear” is a great way to break the ice with someone who wants to help me, but doesn’t have actual decision making power. Don’t be too insecure but just send an e-mail. “I’m excited for our lunch later this week. Susie has told me so much about you. Because I’m very interested in this job, I want to be sure I don’t make a wardrobe faux pas. Do you think it would be inappropriate for me to wear a pantsuit?”
Cat
I have to disagree about asking the actual lunch interviewer about what to wear — but agree about also asking the friend of a friend who set it up. Unless I heard specifically otherwise from the FOAF, I would go no more casual than black pants and a non-suit jacket (black and white tweed perhaps), and would probably opt for a pantsuit with a blouse that can stand on its own, for easy jacket slip-off.
Faith
I don’t think she meant ask the interviewer but rather the friend of the friend.
CJ in CA
I meant ask the FOAF- I thought that person was going to be at the lunch too!
Sharon
Have some personal style, though. A statement necklace. A cool scarf. That type of thing. You need to be memorable, too.
Nancy P
Props to 2L for networking like mad too. You’ve got to work every connection you can.
Faith
The best advice I ever got before a lunch interview was to remember it is not about the food!! For everyone else there it is a break from the workday and a chance to get good eats. For you, it is a chance to shine. Pick the easiest to eat (and digest) food you can find on the menu that is not super expensive or super cheap. Then, watch others. If they are all super fast eaters, put your fork down and claim you are full when you sense they are done. Don’t get a doggy bag. Take small bites of food so that if someone asks you a question it won’t take long for you to be able to answer. Holding up a finger while you finish chewing does give you time to think and prevents you from speaking with your mouth open. Use your water glass to gain you a second as well if you need to think before answering. I went to quiznos after my lunch interview to get lunch! I ended up getting to talk so much that I had barely eaten when everyone else was done.
divaliscious11
I was going to suggest grabbing something quick and filling before lunch so you can social but not wasteful… I often get a small turkey sandwich or the like, and then I can order a small salad, and eat enough of it, to look like I don’t have food issues, but its a controllable meal in most cases, and you can stop, if necessary….
Clerky
Completely agree on the importance of ordering not too expensive and easy to eat food. Also, make sure that you find out if others are ordering appetizers so you don’t look odd if you’re the only one doing so. If the waiter comes to you first, I usually just ask the table if they are planning to just order an entree or both appetizer/entree. Alternatively, I order just an entree and if I see that others are ordering appetizers, I ask the waiter to come back to me and ask for an appetizer as well. My experience is that on most interview lunches, everyone has ordered an appetizer and an entree, but don’t assume that.
Also, if you have particular dietary restrictions, don’t make a big deal about it. I’m vegetarian and there is sometimes nothing on the menu that I can eat, but I get by with salad or boiled vegetables. It’s boring, but then again, you’re not there for the food. Good luck! :)
MMS
To me, interview = interview suit. Period. Consider this possiblity: even if she’s not in a position to hire you, maybe she’s also sizing you up to refer you to a friend who works at another firm ? You just never know who knows who around town and making a good impression will never harm you.
One other suggestion: because this was a friend-of-a-friend connection, be careful not to be too casual/friendly with the conversation. It’s still an interview, no matter how causual, so be on your best behavior!
Good luck!
Rachel
To me, interview = interview suit. Period. Consider this possiblity: even if she’s not in a position to hire you, maybe she’s also sizing you up to refer you to a friend who works at another firm ? You just never know who knows who around town and making a good impression will never harm you.
One other suggestion: because this was a friend-of-a-friend connection, be careful not to be too casual/friendly with the conversation. It’s still an interview, no matter how causual, so be on your best behavior!
Good luck!
SUCL 3L
Second to the comments about knowing your table etiquette. Emily Post’s classic etiquette book has a section on table manners. My parents raised me to have passable table manners, but I definitely learned a thing or two from reading it. The is book is really cheap (like less than $7), can probably be found at your local bookstore, and has ALOT of useful information relating to all sorts of different situations.
ARinFL
I was also raised to know my table manner in almost any setting. Yet emilypost.com has been a lifesaver.
RoadWarriorette
I agree–definitely wear a suit with a can-go-alone top underneath. And be careful of the food! You don’t want anything too messy or difficult to eat. Good luck!!
Help
Along these exact lines, I am a 3L (no job lined up post bar) and the head general counsel of a very large corporation invited me to “come talk” to him and then go to lunch with some of the attorneys. I met him at the company’s Christmas party (my boyfriend works there and knows him). He is a very, very nice older gentleman and I also got to meet and talk to his wife, who is an attorney. Anyhow, I am going in on Wed.
Since this isn’t necessarily an interview but will be an incredible networking opportunity, I am leery of the full suit route (I don’t want to look like I’m showing up for an interview because I don’t want to presume anything).
I am thinking black suit skirt and nice sweater with hose and 2 inch black heels and pearl earrings. Thoughts?
Also any advice on this kind of informal but not situation would be much appreciated – things to ask or talk about. I have no problem with formal interview situations because it is clear what is expected, but this is in an unknown area between casual networking events and formal interviews and I’m a tad anxious.
s-k-s
I’d still go with a suit.
Anonymous
Yep, i’d still go with a suit as well.
Anonymous
Same anonymous here – I’ll also add that I currently work in-house for a large company and we are business casual (and very casual on Fridays). I still wore a suit for my interview (which was on a Friday and I knew about the dress code).
Rachel
Suit.
Really, unless they send you something in writing, in bold and all caps, telling you NOT to wear a suit – wear a suit any time you are meeting with a lawyer regarding a potential job with said lawyer or firm. No lawyer is going to nix you for wearing a suit. They will nix you for not doing so.
MMS
Suit. I think something that many law students don’t realize (at least I didn’t) is that wearing a suit is a non-event for many attorneys. I wear one every day. So while you might feel overdressed in a suit as a law student, you’re likely going to just fit right in hanging out with other attorneys. (Besides, remember your audience: a “nice older gentleman” and his attorney wife.)
Congratulations; no go out there and make a good impression!
LA
OK, unless he said something specifically to the contrary, if he’s asking you to “come talk” AND have lunch with some of the other attorneys in the dept, I’d say that’s an interview and not just a networking lunch. Definitely suit up and be completely prepared with company info and some good questions. Many jobs (and arguably the best jobs) are not advertised.
I’m in house and although I don’t usually wear a suit, if I were meeting with a student who is job hunting, even if she was invited only for an informational interview, I’d expect her to wear a suit.
I also recommend handwritten thank you notes.
Good luck!
Anonymous
Also – bring resumes.
divaliscious11
I’d be careful with this, or at least subtle. If your bag is large enough for you to have them discreetly, then fine. If the office is close by, I’d gage the conversation, and make a determination. If asked for a resume, and you don’t think it would be “too much” provide, otherwise ask if you can drop off by the office. But, use your judgment, if you won’t look pushy etc… hand it over.
Anonymous
Re: divalicious11’s comment, yes, I should have written a longer post on this. Definitely be subtle. You don’t want to walk in flashing your resume, but you also don’t want to be stuck saying “Sorry, I didn’t bring one with me” if someone happens to ask for it. If you bag is big enough to bring one (even folded neatly in half, but no more than in half!) i’d go for it.
Ellie
I was going to comment the same. Dont think of it as suiting up for an interview, think of it as dressing like the lawyer you already are. (or in the case of a 3L, will be soon). Lawyers wear suits. Whether you have a job or not, you are still a lawyer. I like the idea of wearing a non “interview” suit – pantsuit, interesting shirt, etc, because it makes you look comfortable in the part and not like a student dressed up like a lawyer.
Help
Suit it is. Thank you everyone!
SUCL 3L
Wear a sweater or blouse that can stand on its under the suit jacket in case you decide to take off the jacket (such as, you’re sitting down at the table and everyone else starts taking off their jackets).
As a 3L who also currently has no post-bar offer (and seriously knows your pain), congrats and good luck!
divaliscious11
Help-
Dear, this IS an interview. He is interviewing you to find out if he should stick his neck out for you if the opportunity arises, whether his company, or somewhere else. The reality is, that for most job interviews, you don’t get called in if you don;t have the minimum skill set on paper, so be yourself, on display.
Rebecca
When going for a job interview, at lunchtime or otherwise, the last thing I want to be thinking about is whether I’m dressed correctly. I found this great site that has a whole bunch of great ideas. I especially like the section on Working Dinners, because that’s almost as tricky a scenario as this one.
Rebecca
When going for a job interview, at lunchtime or otherwise, the last thing I want to be thinking about is whether I’m dressed correctly. I found this great site that has a whole bunch of great ideas. I especially like the section on Working Dinners, because that’s almost as tricky a scenario as this one.
Here’s the link:http://www.what2wearwhere.com/ListItems.aspx?pt=Event&q=15
Original poster
Thank you everyone. To clarify, the lunch would be with the friend of a friend (who I do not know so can’t really ask what to wear), and the interviewer, who are both older and pretty high up, (both federal government) so I am going to go with a suit. Thanks especially for the advice on eating and the stand alone shirt!
Erin M.
Wear a suit, but be advised that most federal government lawyers do not wear suits every day unless they are going to court. I wouldn’t pull out your best, shiniest interview suit for lunch. Save that one for the actual interview, and wear something less stiff for the lunch, like a pantsuit with a pretty accessory or two.
AK
Even more important to wear a suit if its federal government. There is a formality in government that demands that interviewees, even if only on informational interviews, wear suits. Dress as if you are going to Federal Court, or going before the SEC/FCC/FTC to present a case/project. It conveys that you are taking them seriously and appreciate their willingness to meet with you.
Erin M.
Do you work for the federal government? Because I do, and your comment is not true except maybe within whatever agency you work for.
Sei
I agree with Erin M. I’m an attorney in a federal agency subsection which is predominantly made up of attorneys, and most of us don’t wear suits; that’s true even at conferences where we’re all communing with our subsection’s big-wigs. Men will wear pants and a jacket, and most women wear nice pants/skirts and blazers, though there have been plenty of days when my male supervisor has worn khakis and sneakers. I hardly ever see suits, and on days I’ve worn them people have asked, “Oh, big day today, something going on?” etc.
I agree to wear a suit to the lunch, though.
North Shore
It depends on the agency. At the Federal Aviation Administration, for example, suits are required daily wear for management and attorney-level employees. The men wear ties. If I have a case involving that agency, I am going to wear a suit when I meet with them, even if my agency is more casual.
AK
Actually, I spent 10 years in government and my husband has spent 20 + years–I agree that once you have a job in an agency your attire may change, but when you are trying to make an impression, my advice always is to make your best impression. I will note that every time I have a meeting with folks from the Federal government (I am now a partner in a firm) all the government lawyers are in suits, and in fact I became even more formal as I noticed the level of formality among the government lawyers with whom I meet. But this may be a NY/DC thing.
LizM
I work in the federal government, and agree with Erin. The only time we wear suits is if we have an important meeting or are going to court. That said, no one in my office would look out of place in a nice pants suit.
K
I agree with everyone who said suit (even though it’s a fed job) and easy to eat food. But I wanted to second the commenter who said not to get lulled into the informality of a lunch interview. Show some personality and toot your own horn but remember you’re being graded on everything you say and do. If you wouldn’t say it in a formal interview in a conference room, don’t say it at lunch!
But way to go for networking!!!
Yasmin
To second the comments given to Help, I am in-house and if our GC told us a law student was coming to lunch with us, I would expect that student to be dressed like an attorney – a “non-interview” suit, something with a little more style. In other words, a severe black suit and white blouse says “I’m here to get a job” which is a little presumptious, but a more stylish outfit (pantssuit, some color, etc.) says “I’m here to talk about a job” which is a crucial distinction.
Please let us know how it goes!
ProfAA
I love reading Corporette because I am a former big firm partner and teach at a “top” law school and talk to lots of women students with the same issues you talk about. I have also purchased several of your suggestions for myself! But I have to confess to a feeling that Corporette is a little on the formal side–NYC rather than the Southwest.
That said–PLEASE no black suit to “lunch” unless it is all you have and you are at a really formal place. I’m so tired of law students in black suits, and I’m sure interviewers are. Wear something different to show that you DO have a personality. I think you should have two interview outfits–your black suit, and something else, probably separates–a great looking not black jacket with not matching great pants, blouse and skirt. I have a pollicy NEVER to wear a black suit to show my students that you can be professional in other colors. My favorite is my new bright green designer jacket I bought at Neiman-Marcus for 1/3 of original price.
Honestly, there are lots of students with grades and black suits. If I asked you to lunch at someplace not very formal and you showed up in your black interview suit, I’d think “she’s terrified…”
Help
Thank you everyone, for the advice!
I’ve got one very nice (Theory) black suit – I’ll wear the pants and jacket with a nice shirt and throw in a broach or something for personality. I think black with a colored blouse underneath should be fine. I think I’d rather look too “severe” than unprofessional, in response to Prof. AA. I have a charcoal suit but I’ve lost a lot of weight in law school and it looks like a tent. I’ve found it very hard to have more than one nice suit in law school when I keep dropping 10 pounds a year (I was slightly overweight when I came, so that’s just fine), and I’ve found black to be a bit more versatile than charcoal.
Thank you, C readers! I’m the first person in my family to graduate college, much less go to law school, so I’ve had to figure out a lot of this by myself and it is so, so nice to have Corporette and all of you other readers as a resource. Will report back. I hope there is something to report.
SUCL 3L
Just a small side note re: suiting on a law student budget. Consider looking at some places that a bit more on the inexpensive side since (I’m assuming) you’re on a limited budget and probably don’t want to be spending alot of money on transitional pieces as you loose weight. I like places like The Limited, Banana Republic, Ann Taylor Loft, New York & Co., and (occassionally, if you’re not afraid of on-line only shopping) Victoria’s Secret.
Good luck!
Help
Most of my stuff is from J.Crew and Banana outlets, but the Theory suit is my “investment” piece and my reward for hitting my weight goal and staying there for a year. :) I also really like Marshalls – they have some really nice names for about 1/5 of the price.
Help
Also, original poster, sorry to hijack your thread. Good luck!
Original poster
All the advice helps, good luck to you as well!
AnyAdvice?
I have a question for everyone. I bought 2 half-sleeved non-iron shirts from Brooks Brothers online.
I planned to wear them not tucked in, with formal pants, as I do with some other shirts I have. E.g. I have shirts that I’ve bought from Ann Taylor that have stretch in them, and darts, so they are a little nipped in at the waist, but are short. They cover the waistband of pants and come a little lower, but not much. I also wear these with pencil skirts, most of the time tucked in. On weekends, I occasionally wear these same half-sleeved shirts over jeans, not tucked in, for a more casual look.
(I live and work in California and the untucked shaped shirt with formal pants look is formal enough for my workplace, except on days when I meet with clients when I add a blazer or occasionally a suit.)
Once I got the BB shirts and wore them, I realized that they have ‘shirt-tails’. So the bottom of the shirt goes up at the sides, and is u-shaped at the front and back. I know that this means I cannot leave them untucked into pants. I don’t really like the look of tucking shirts into formal pants without a jacket on top, it seems to emphasize your curves a bit too much for me. I’m a pear shape, and I dont think this looks good on me. I’m very disappointed, and not sure if I should return the shirts (got a great deal and always wanted non-iron half-sleeve). If I keep them, am I bound to only wear them tucked in, with skirts?
My questions are: (1) Is there no way I can leave them untucked over pants? (2) Is it possible to get them altered so that the bottom lays straight, and I can then leave them untucked? Will that be expensive?
Anon
Re: (1) I think no, it looks messy.
Re: (2) absolutely no idea! I always tuck in my shirts at work.
Lawgirl
I’m late to the party here (grinding at work), so one may read this, BUT: I’ve gotten away from wearing matchy-matchy 2 piece suits. I wear suit separates, but I break them up — pinstriped jacket & solid pants, tweed skirt and belted wool black jacket, etc. I’ve won major clients in them, so it seems to be working for me…. The only clear cut exception I’d make for this is a jury trial or a dispositive motion in federal court… I know may be heckled and shoo’d out of Corporette with this heresy ;-D
Help - Follow-up
Glad I went with a suit. Lunch went well, the post lunch individual chat was terrifying, we’ll see how it pans out. But very, very glad I went with a suit.
Anon
Why terrifying?
Glad lunch went well!
Help - Follow-up
Difficult to explain. He was a VERY intimidating figure (how ’bout that, the GC of a Fortune 100 company). He asked me at one point if I was going to cry, then got more out of me about my personal history than most people do in a year, complimented my personality and style (thanks C and readers!) and called up the company’s recruiter to talk to me, and then told me to come see him again in a few weeks. He also told me I’ll be quite a catch for a company or firm.
I’ve never had an interaction like that. When I write it like this is sounds great, but my neck broke out in a rash during the real thing – he’d ask me a question in his top story office and then look hard at me for 15 seconds after I answered before he asked another.
The Image Expert
I always tell my clients, when in doubt, wear an un-matched suit. You’ll look sharp and competent. If the environment is more casual than you planned for, you always have the option of removing the jacket.
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