Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Equestrian Blazer

241 Comments

1. Debating between 2 dresses for a black-tie optional event (where I want to shop my closet, versus buy new).

   The first is Kate Spade Black Lucy Embellished Shift Dress; the models are invariably waifs but I’m 5’4″ and a size 8-10 so it fits like a sheath dress and comes to right above the knee. https://poshmark.com/listing/kate-spade-Lucy-embellished-neckline-dress-5c587876534ef91b18ec5afa?utm_source=gdm&utm_campaign=9885398791&campaign_id=9885398791&ad_partner=google&gskid=pla-1238587050447&gcid=431634175106&ggid=101169993035&gdid=c&g_network=g&enable_guest_buy_flow=true&gclid=CjwKCAjwmeiIBhA6EiwA-uaeFZhQk6FbEAzgpjS427-erga2lRricV18cLdrMm94WV4CtFEuoE8GCRoCJl8QAvD_BwE

   The second is a Ted Baker shift dress with scallop neck line and scallop hem line, in black with white trim at the bottom. The fit on me is very similar to the first dress — like a sheath dress and to the knee. https://www.lyst.com/en-ca/clothing/ted-baker-shift-dress-with-scallop-neck-line-and-hem-black/

   Opinions? Ways to zhush them up without spending a lot of money? I’ve worn the Kate Spade twice pre-Covid and never worn the Ted Baker (I got both in perfect condition with tags still on at a consignment store).

   1. Personally like the Ted Baker more. Sparkly earrings and a great scent!

   2. I vote KS. The neck embellishments read more “evening” to me than scallops and contrast trim. (Like, I can picture wearing the Ted Baker to a morning wedding, more day-formal.)

      1. Oh, and I would wear bold, complementary earrings or cuff bracelet. Not both.

      2. +1 for the KS

      3. Agree. The Ted Baker is nice but the KS seems more evening-y.

   3. Neither one seems very black-tie to me–they both look like day dresses. I agree that the Kate Spade seems more evening-appropriate. I’d do a cocktail dress of some sort, or if you don’t have one then a very plain black sheath dress with fancy shoes and jewelry.

      1. +1

      2. I agree that neither of these seem black tie optional, but that if these are your only options the Kate Spade is better. The white on the Ted Baker makes it too casual, I think,

   4. I think either is good but the white on the hem of the second makes it look a little more daytime to me so I’d go with the first.

      I agree with others that you make it evening with sparkly statement earrings, no necklace. Maybe a wrap. And festive shoes.

      1. Thanks. I need to travel to this wedding and I want to give a generous gift so I’m trying to shop my closet first!

2. What makes the linked Ann Taylor blazer “equestrian-inspired”? I definitely see it for the featured blazer, which is GORGEOUS but out of my price range. Then I clicked on the Ann Taylor one, and it just looks like a blazer in a slightly interesting color and fabric. I see the description of it says “equestrian-inspired,” so does that mean a specific feature? I would have pictured one that’s fitted in the waist and slightly flared out at the hips, with large buttons.

   1. I just looked and am equally confused. It doesn’t have the nipped-waist then cutaway style, fabric, or other “horsey” look at all IMHO. The length and the fact that there are two buttons… maybe??

      1. I don’t think the Ann Taylor blazer is equestrian at all, and I think that’s an error in this post, but I love the color.

         1. To be fair- it’s AT themselves that claim it’s equestrian-inspired… but I don’t believe them :)

   2. It’s long, woolen and colorful. Like a hacking jacket.
      Could have had three or four buttons higher set rather than two, and a higher collar, though.

      The main post is maybe more of a riding show coat, or a costume-like one?

      1. The main post is somewhat reminiscent of a show coat for dressage.

   3. I think its the giant gold buttons

3. I’m 33, have long curly black hair, and i have a few grey hairs here and there that are noticeable but not very concentrated. Dying my hair seems like overkill for where I am, but I kind of want to start covering these up. I’ve been thinking about using black henna to color it since I don’t want to do anything that’s too damaging or drying to my hair. I’ve never done anything to my hair before (no blow drying, straightening, dying, anything. I just wash it and let it air dry) so wanted to get others thoughts on this.

   1. I don’t have personal experience using henna but I think it doesn’t last long. If it is just a few hairs, you can use dark eyeshadow to cover them. There are also kits made for this purpose that you can buy. Obviously it would wash out but I would maybe only do that if I am going out – not for everyday unless you can get used to doing it as part of your am routine.

   2. (Red) henna head here! If you decide to do out, make absolutely sure you’re only getting indigo or henna plus indigo. A lot of “black” henna is full of horrible stuff that causes all manner of skin reactions.

      Things to know: it’s pretty messy and time consuming.
      You can avoid waiting around for it to bloom by mixing it up and freezing it. Thaw it in some warm water whenever you’re ready.
      They the finest grind you can find. It’ll be so much easier to wash out.
      Not sure about indigo, but henna smells like fresh hay and your hair smells like that for a long time.

      It’s not very busy anymore, but longhaircommunity forums are a wealth of information and recommendations for reputable sellers.

   3. Dye it and go to a good salon. Henna or semi permanent is just an exercise in frustration.

   4. I think henna can be difficult/impossible to dye over if you end up not liking it.

   5. Honestly, I just pluck them. It isn’t hard to keep up with them if there are just a few. I have very dark brown hair and a few assorted grays that annoy me, but probably like 3% gray max.

      I know I won’t be able to keep this up forever, but for now it works!

   6. Do not do henna, it is the opposite of low maintenance. The process can take hours and is incredibly messy. Henna is also extremely difficult to color over so you’re stuck with it until your hair grows out or is cut off. Since you have virgin hair I’d suggest doing a semi or demi permanent color first, to see if you like the color match. You can go to a salon if you’d like but semi-permanent color is a very low-risk thing to try at home.

      I’ve used at-home black semi-permanent and it’s great but I would not do at-home black permanent hair color. At home hair color, when black, can look very flat and “inky” after many applications. If you find that you like the look and wan to move on to permanent color please have it done professionally. They’ll mix up various browns and black tones to make it more neutral looking

   7. I have medium to dark brown hair and used red henna in my twenties for an Auburn look…loved it and how it conditioned my hair, made it thicker and so shiny – got it at health food store and was not permanent- not sure what product you’re looking at but if you have dark hair and need to color grays, go get it dyed by a pro with semi permanent. Henna is a great conditioner with color but not for coloring grays.

   8. There is no such thing as black henna. You can use indigo to color hair black but you have to use it in conjunction with henna because indigo does not stain hair very well by itself. Also dyeing hair that has been colored with indigo can be problematic. Doesn’t seem worth the hassle to try to cover a few strands of gray. FWIW I probably have 60% gray and use cassia with a bit of henna to color my hair.

   9. You might try a gloss, and see if that covers up or at least darkens up the gray enough that it is less noticeable. I’m much older (61) with dark brown hair with scattered gray/silver and pronounced silver at the temples (so it’s especially noticeable when I pull my hair back). I have never wanted to dye my hair but on a whim just started using the dp Hue gloss (I believe is the name, got it at Ulta) and really like it. It covers the gray pretty well, so it just looks like highlights, and greatly reduces the gray at the temples. It’s semi-permanent color and fades after about two to three weeks, after every-other-day hair washing. I just used it for the third time yesterday and will probably use it every two weeks or so. The gloss also evened out the color in my long hair, so it looks less faded at the tips, and makes it shinier (well, glossier). It’s easy to apply, not smelly and not particularly messy to use.

4. Curious to hear some anecdotal experience with jewelry insurance. Have any of you ever submitted a claim for theft of something in the 5 figures of value and how did it go? Was the claim paid out? Was it simple?

   I’m looking at insurance for some high value pieces, and the biggest risk I have would be theft/mugging type of circumstances (not natural disasters or fires or anything like that).

   1. IDK but I have a rider for Earrings of Significance and I am also insured for loss (likely) and loss of one of the pair. Never used it. Over time, I could self-insure b/c it is pricey, but I lost one for several hours once in bad berber carpet (since removed).

      1. A few years ago, the stone fell out of my engagement ring and was lost. State Farm was wonderful to deal with; they set up appointment fir me to go to a jeweler fir comparable size stones — and then I found it, in all places, in my leggings drawer. Turns out I must have worn sweatpants over leggings on a particularly cold day, took the sweatpants off and folded them since they didn’t need washing, and the stone must have gotten caught somewhere. I would rather have the original stone anyway and SF paid to have it reset in my original settting (a prong was apparently slightly bent).

   2. Yes, I have experience with jewelry insurance/pay out.

      I am a renter, and with my State Farm rental policy I had a limit of 5K for “jewelry and furs” with my standard policy. I have a separate rider/policy for one item I own that is of high value (5 figures) that is not jewelry (a musical instrument). I own more valuables/jewelry, but never added on additional insurance. To be honest, it seemed kind of expensive to…

      A couple years ago my apartment was burglarized. They stole two pieces of Jewelry worth a little under 5K that I had kept in my medicine cabinet for convenience. Fortunately, the rest of my Jewelry is kept in a more hidden location.

      State Farm paid out no questions asked for the value of the Jewelry. I got the value by having receipts for one item, and for having an estimate for the value of the second by finding comparables online and printing it out.

      Importantly, I had a PHOTO of the stolen items, and a police report stating they had been stolen.

      But I was pleasantly surprised that they paid out so quickly. What is true is that the value of my stolen items had certainly appreciated, as the value of gold/precious stones had gone up quite a bit since purchase.

      So if you have a valuable item -take pictures of it, save receipts and details about the weight/stones/quality etc…, and then ask your insurance for the cost of appropriate insurance. Ideally, you would have them appraised over time, as the value will likely increase for insurance purposes.

      1. Make sure you take pictures of the pieces sitting on the purchase invoices, so you have what you need if you need to make a claim. Mine stolen pieces were largely gifts, and I had to call the retailers to get copies of invoices and old price lists.

5. Questions I never thought I would be asking… For those of you have have Botox, do you just schedule on a recurring basis (every 3 -4 months) or do you want to start looking a certain way again? I’m coming up on that window after my first time and trying to determine if I just schedule when it’s convenient for me or if it’s better to wait for something to show. TIA!

   1. I’ve only done it once so far, but I scheduled mine for four months out. I figured it was better to have the appointment set up and then I could always reschedule if I felt I didn’t need to go just yet.

   2. I used to wait to book until I started seeing lines again but my derm always seems to be fully booked a month out. So I was way more wrinkly than I wanted to be by the time I got an appointment. I know that I want an appointment at 3 months so I go ahead and book it in advance. I’ve been told that over time you can go less frequently because the muscles atrophy but I have not yet had that experience.

   3. My injector is in demand, so even scheduling at the end of my appointment for the next one is difficult. I often have to wait longer than I Iike. She’s also mentioned that I chew through Botox fast, and floated the idea of trying Dysport the next time. We’ll see.

      1. I love Dysport! No reason not to try it out.

6. I love Dysport! No reason not to try it out.

   1. I can’t agree enough. I’m having trouble stopping my tears before my 11 am meeting.

      There was a quote in the NYTimes from a Democratic Congresswoman who said none of her constituents had called her office about the past week’s events, which is difficult to believe. But I wrote my senator just to say that one of his constituents does in fact care, just in case it helps.

      1. No one (among the public) cares about foreign policy. This is well understood among political insiders.

         1. honestly, I used to work at USAID and calling my congressman about this didn’t even register as an idea. Frankly – what’s my call going to do? We’ve already bungled the situation.

         2. I care about foreign policy, but I don’t see any discernable difference between how Afghanistan was handled between the two parties. The war covered four Presidential administrations, two Republican and two Democratic. I also don’t see how the withdrawal could have been done in a way that wasn’t awful.

            1. You really don’t see that it could have been better handled than having multiple desparate people die by falling from clinging onto a US military plane as it takes off?

            2. I said “not awful,” not that this was the best way.

            3. For starters, we could process special visas and evacuate Americans BEFORE withdrawing troops, not after.

            4. We could have done a competent job in evacuating people who aided the US military instead of waiting until the last minute to attempt it. The withdrawal was necessary but it was completely botched. There was no need for it to be handled this poorly.

   2. It’s awful, but also what did we expect? It was always going to be this way.

      1. Can you explain a little more about what you mean? I’ve followed the situation only at headline level over the years (plus an article here and there).

         1. My limited understanding is that we tried to prop up a government stable and strong enough to deal with the Taliban by themselves. But that wasn’t ever going to happen. It’s very clear now that the Afghan gov’t has been a house of cards all along. They’re not a cohesive country with a sense of national pride/loyalty so even the locals weren’t really putting in the efforts to fight. In the meanwhile Pakistan and Saudi Arabia were providing refuge for the Taliban, so it was a never ending conflict that we couldn’t root out.

            1. It’s kind of hard to put in the effort to fight when you don’t have food or water let alone ammunitions on the front lines. There was a lot of corruption by US allies and very little was done to root it out because we were too distracted by the Iraq war.

         2. The US was supposed to be there to create a local government and army. Which is what it did in Europe/Japan – while the US has bases there now they’re just convenient re-fueling stops, not actually supporting the local government.

            The Afghan government was never strong and cohesive, and the Afghan soldiers were, if you look into different sources not the best candidates/just looking for a job/drugs/didn’t pay attention/insubordinate with no consequences.

            So it was not that the US was building something and then could ease off and give it to the Afghan government. Now that the US left there is no overall Afghan government/army, so this is what happens.

         3. The Afghanistan Papers laid out in pretty exhaustive detail what we were up against in Afghanistan, and how poorly our efforts to “stabilize” the country were going. It was really not possible for the pullout not to go badly. We bought lots of equipment, we built things, we trained people, but we never changed hearts or minds and at the end of the day, most Afghan people would rather have the Taliban in charge than live under continued Western occupation. Add in that they really don’t have a national identity but more strongly identify with their ancestral tribe and here we are. The Taliban obviously got the drop on the Biden administration in many ways but at the same time – someone had to pull the band-aid off and it wasn’t going to be pretty, no matter who did it or when.

      2. We are still in Europe and Korea and they have the rule of law and functioning governments (vs kleptocracies). Ditto Japan. IDK who thought it would be fine if we left.

         And then . . . poor Haiti.

         So much awful news right now. Not religious but I feel like there is nothing but prayer left.

         1. +1

            I don’t think the US staying forever was the solution, but some sort of stabilization force for the foreseeable future would have helped.

            1. Isn’t that what we were supposedly doing, though? Based on how quickly this happened, it seems like the only “stabilization” option was to stay.

            2. Anon at 11:27 here – yes, I think that regardless of what a drawdown looked like, what’s happening now would have eventually happened, sadly. We had a relatively low number of troops in Afghanistan for the past several years , so it looks like a stabilization effort wouldn’t have required many people. I think the “best” option would have been a small, multilateral stabilization presence.

               I really do think there is no winning here, and that as soon as we invaded we set ourselves up for failure. If we can’t go back in time and avoid the whole war, then the next best thing we could do is to not f*ck over the civilians we left behind.

         2. I don’t know about Korea, but the US bases in Europe today don’t have anything to do with stabilizing democracy there. I am sure they did a lot of work developing the democracies of Germany and Italy, you know, 70 years ago. Now, they provide convenient landing spots for the US forces for all their wars in the Middle East, that’s all.

      3. “What did you expect” isn’t actually a response to an enormous tragedy.

         1. Changing tragedies for the moment – “What did you expect” is a perfectly fine reaction to anti-vaxers/anti-maskers dying of Covid.

            1. Now that I can agree with.

         2. It’s a perfectly fine response. Being sad and upset about a tragedy but recognizing that it’s inevitable are not mutually exclusive. Anyone who didn’t see this coming is either uninformed or in denial.

      4. I mean I didn’t expect them to be there forever but I did expect a competently planned drawdown and not the gong show that ensued over the weekend with people literally clinging to the engines of US military planes as they are taking off.

         It’s so embarrassing.

         1. The US has a history of abandoning what it started when things don’t go well or when the ruling party changes in an election. I’m not saying it’s right or excusable, but any surprise reaction to our pulling out the way we did looks to me like pikachu faces right now.

            1. Right. I feel like I’m seeing a lot of people on the Internet today (not just here) who didn’t pay attention in history class. This is EXACTLY what the U.S. does when some hamfisted, bone-headed intervention we’ve attempted doesn’t work out (see: Vietnam, Myanmar, Cambodia, many countries in Central and South America, etc.). We hightail it out of there and say, welp, it was a messed-up situation to begin with; we tried our best! At least Lockheed Martin/Raytheon/Northrop Grumman/Halliburton/etc. made a lot of money and “increased shareholder value”! Eisenhower warned us about the military-industrial complex back in the 50s and it was easier to keep doing what we were doing than put a stop to it. Every few years we have to have a good “conflict” (remember, wars are declared by Congress) so all the cool tech these people develop gets field-tested and they can recoup some of the money they expend on R&D (which, hahaha, was actually already paid for by the government). Stark Industries in the first Iron Man movie wasn’t an exaggerated caricature of an evil defense contracting company, that’s how they really are! Anyone who’s shocked by these current events in Afghanistan needs to read (or re-read) A People’s History of the United States, and also Manufacturing Consent. Absolutely nothing has changed in our foreign policy since those two books were written; same philosophies are in place and same tactics are being deployed.

   3. I’m crushed. I’ve worked in humanitarian aid/adjacent fields my entire career and I’m just heartbroken with the situation. I hate knowing what’s coming for women and girls, I hate seeing these people who had a taste of freedom lose it, and I hate thinking about all the lives that were destroyed or lost (on both sides) for us to backslide to exactly where we were for 20 years.

      While I desperately wanted us to end our wars, I also don’t think a full wind down was wise. I wish that the UN was capable and willing of providing support/peacekeeping forces.

      It just sucks and breaks my heart.

      1. Looking at the demographics of Afghanistan per wikipedia, 60% of the population is 24 or under. Which means 60% of the population only remembers war and rebuilding, and has no experience with living under Taliban rule.

         1. that is heartbreaking. I can’t imagine living your entire life under some set of rules and then one day waking up and the game has totally changed. One day you can go out, go to school, etc. and then the next thing you know you must wear a full burqua and are no longer allowed to pursue an education.

            1. It’s basically the Handmaid Tale.

      2. I work with veterans, many of whom are having a hard time with this- regardless of what they thought about the war, many lost friends in Afghanistan who are now looking at this saying “What was this all for?” It’s devastating in every way- for the women and girls of Afghanistan, for the kids who will now learn what it’s like to live under Taliban rule, for the parents who know exactly what that looks like. It breaks my heart.

         1. +1. I talked to a guy just a few weeks ago who was saying exactly this about his time in Afghanistan.

   4. i follow katie couric on instagram and the video she just posted at the airport is so so so upsetting. i cannot imagine literally leaving my home behind and trying to get any spot on an airplane like that. to say we are all so lucky and spoiled is an understatement

   5. I’m not seeing any women in these videos of people trying to escape. Are the men just abandoning them?

      1. I’ve seen some women in the airport pictures. I suspect they realize the futility of running onto the tarmac. It’s vastly majority male as many of the people at the airport worked as translators, for NGOS, or on the american bases so they are fearful of Taliban reprisals. Women didn’t hold many of those jobs. That’s why they are trying to get out. Most ordinary people are just cowering at home.

      2. I thought the same thing when I saw the news coverage this morning. The Taliban rule will be awful for all Afghanis, but especially women (and children). Are the men really leaving them behind?

         1. It wouldn’t surprise me. Look at the stats of men abandoning wives who fall ill (cancer, etc.) compared to the reverse. Men eff off when the going gets tough.

            1. +1 As awful as it is, science does indeed support this.

            2. I will note from annecdata that many families with daughters GTFO very early. To the point of when I lived in Iran (American citizen), many families left there before us. Ditto some Azeris. Ditto others, but among the elite. IDK what you do if you are not from means and just want your daughters to be able to read and not have to marry when puberty hits.

            3. @Anonymous at 11:34, I will ditto this. I was living in Pakistan (as a kid) when the first Gulf War broke out and my mom GTFO with me and my sister early — and so did many, many of our friends who were planning to leave (others stayed).

            4. when you say science supports this – what are you referring to?

            5. There are Afghan women who support the Taliban and fundamentalist Islamic traditions, just like there are American Christian women who support fundamentalist Christian views. “Afghan women” are not a monolith. I remember back in 2001 when we invaded Afghanistan, with one of the reasons stated as we were going to “liberate” the Afghan women from the Taliban, many women were more afraid of American soldiers than they were of the Taliban fighters and said, point-blank, they intended to keep their daughters home and not send them to school because that was what their values said they should do. We are fooling ourselves if we think, for one second, we were able to eliminate or even significantly counter fundamentalist Muslim views in Afghanistan. There are women who are complicit in enforcing fundamentalist restrictions on other women. What the Taliban believes about women is awful but looking at this as a black-and-white, one-side-or-the-other issue where all Afghan women reject the Taliban and their views is facile.

            6. It’s not about whether some women in Afghanistan support the Taliban’s views. It’s about whether we agree as common humans that it is wrong to abduct 12-year-old girls into sex slavery and assault, oppress, and rape women with impunity. I am not a cultural relativist, but even if I were, I would still believe in fundamental human rights.

            7. @ Anon 12:58. The Taliban impose a version of Sunni Islam that was not endemic to Afghanistan. Rural Afghanistan was very traditional with narrow roles for women but it was not the level of extremist views introduced by Taliban who learned from the Saudis at madrassas in Pakistan.

               Traditional Afghanistan society did not only allow women to leave their homes with a male escort – those types of values are imported and Saudi.

   6. It is devastating and gutting. I grew up in an adjacent country (Pakistan) with a huge Afghan refugee population even in the 80’s and 90’s. I feel sick when I read the descriptions of the airport, the fear…all of it. I do not believe America needs to stay somewhere forever, but dear God this seems pre-emptive. Saigon indeed. I’m heartbroken.

7. Is anyone else really upset about the situation in Afghanistan? I feel irrationally (or maybe it’s rational?) angry at our successive governments (of both parties) over the last probably 15 years. This war is a debt I’m going to be paying off through taxes for the rest of my life, and aside from dealing with Al-Qaeda which was basically accomplished in the first few years, it feels like it was just a massive waste of both money and lives. Ugh. I don’t know what else to say. I was just so upset watching the situation unfold this weekend.

   1. I am too. I actually feel physically sick, not only for the heartwrenching scenes playing out on the news, but for the implications for women under the Taliban. No matter why we were there and how long we were there, this exit is shameful and wrong. It’s this generation’s Saigon.

   2. It’s an impossible situation. I am frustrated too but I don’t have any answers.

   3. i find the whole thing so sad and terrifying for the people, especially the women, of Afghanistan. and yes, i am still a bit confused as to what we were doing there for so long and what exactly was accomplished if the country is right back where it began

      1. One humane thing we can and should do at this point is process millions of asylum applications and help resettle Afghan women and children in the US. Some men too.

         1. Absolutely not under any circumstances.

      2. +1, this is how I feel as well. We also spent $83 BILLION dollars – and to what end??

         1. I think that the $83B provided some jobs for a lot of people and then there was the kleptocracy we supported, which was not good. Not sure how the Taliban is going to run a country in a pandemic — they can’t kill the doctors and nurses, surely? Surely?!

            1. ? Are you serious? They killed female doctors last time. Women were not allowed to leave the house.

               Female surgeons in Kandahar are already having to operate in burqas and they have banned meetings between female midwives and male OBGYNs who normally work together to provide medical care for women in labor.

            2. They apparently plan to forbid the use of vaccines there.

            3. They banned vaccines, I don’t care about the pandemic.

         2. Not sure where you get $83B from but it’s more than 10x as much, especially when you think about future costs to support veterans through the rest of their lives https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/09/12/the-annual-cost-of-the-war-in-afghanistan-since-2001-infographic/

            1. Here’s where the $83B figure comes from: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/15/world/asia/afghanistan-taliban-kabul-surrender.html

               The toll of war fell heavily on Afghan armed forces in recent years. But no amount of American training and matériel — at a cost of $83 billion — was sufficient to create a security force willing to fight and die for a besieged nation that American forces were leaving behind. Public declarations by, first, President Donald J. Trump and then President Biden calling for a quick and total troop pullout sent morale plummeting across Afghanistan.

            2. OK so 83b is just for supplies and training for the army. I see overall war costs estimated at 1.2tril

   4. I’m frustrated because I don’t think there is a good answer at this point. We can either stay there indefinitely to maintain some semblance of security or choose to leave and have something like this happen. Not invading Afghanistan would have been the place to start with this (and I personally believe that doing so was an unforced error), but our options are limited at this point.

      I served in Afghanistan and have spent the better part of the 20 years since then working on similar issues, so yeah, “upset” would cover it. It’s a sunk cost thought at this point. We shouldn’t stay because we’ve already lost too much. We should stay in order to control the risk to the homeland or not stay because we can achieve a reasonable threshold of security without occupation. Whatever it is, the whole situation is really sad but we shouldn’t make decisions based on sunk costs.

      1. “We can either stay there indefinitely to maintain some semblance of security or choose to leave and have something like this happen.”

         – These were NOT the only options. Biden/Harris was my dream ticket and I am unbelievably disappointed. The withdrawal was really really badly done. I support them getting out but HOW it was done is just such an unnecessary failure.

         No one expects indefinite, none of the other NATO partners were on board for that but the way in which the draw down was done, it was clear that it was going to be a disaster months ago. Not giving a hard deadline for withdrawal is like super basic stuff. All the third party translators etc should have been out before they announced a date. Like that will be serious long term harm for any future conflicts we are in. No one will want to work with us on the ground. Promising to protect your translators etc and get them out if things go wrong is like super basic level stuff.

         It was clear months ago that the Afghan military on the frontlines had not only insufficient ammunitions but not even enough food and water. Of course they are going to collapse in that situation. There are known strategies to deal with that when you are having issues with corruption siphoning off supplies. I don’t want to write a book here but it was so badly done. I said to DH mid last week that Kabul wouldn’t last a week and yet Biden was talking like it would hold out for months! If I can see that with my dinky International Affairs MA – that they were blind to it is unforgiveable. I can think of at least 10 different drawdown strategies that were not employed to avoid this. It’s a disaster that will burn the US for a long time. On the ground partners in many other countries are likely pulling back from their CIA operators as we speak. I don’t work in international affairs anymore but I’ve heard from so many former colleagues this week just venting their frustrations that this was not done better. Like how did they not have the airport fully secure before announcing the date? You know you need it to get people out. It HAS to be secure. This is super super basic stuff.

         1. I couldn’t agree more. This was the exact wrong way to do a withdrawal – leaving U.S. embassy staff on the ground to shred sensitive documents as the Taliban took Kabul? What the actual f*ck? They should’ve been evacuated far in advance of a withdrawal deadline with appropriate troop and air support at the ready. How many Afghans who had been promised visas are getting left behind as well, the translators and support workers and trusted contacts?

            I also view this as unforgivable. I don’t know if I can vote for Biden again.

            1. Right? And they closed all the US airbases except Kabul? Like why are you abandonning Bagram before you have a solid withdrawal plan? Leaving only one airport to evacuate everyone is like elementary school planning level.

            2. But how do you process special visas (in a WW pandemic, no less) if you’ve already evacuated all of the embassy staff far in advance? I think this weekend’s events are heartbreaking and foreseeable, but I don’t know what the better options were.

            3. You don’t evacuate the embassy staff and withdraw troops before you’ve processed the special visas!! Yes, things are always more complicated than that, but the order of operations here is literally the worst possible organization I can possibly imagine.

            4. They should have been processing visas since like February whereas the main visa program was only lauched mid-July. They should have had most of these people processed and out by now. At least out to third country locations (US army bases in 3rd countries), until processing is finished. You keep a second airbase in case you lose one. You keep enough forces to secure both airbases until you don’t need them. You don’t announce a hard withdrawal deadline.

               When you are literally taking off in US military planes with people hanging off them, you know you did a $hit job of managing the withdrawal.

            5. Do you really need to process visas at the local embassy? I understand that this is how it’s normally done, but new challenges can sometimes require new solutions. And it’s not like these visa applicants are random strangers. These are people that have worked for years with the local troops, their background is know, we probably have all their personal info already, there are people vouching for them etc. Someone here in the US could surely put their name on a list, they get a call, board a flight and get handed a visa document upon arrival. A yes-fly list. I understand that this is totally not how US immigration works today, but there are so many ways to organize it if you had the political will.

            6. “I also view this as unforgivable. I don’t know if I can vote for Biden again.”

               Okay, really? Like, really really? You’re going to be a single-issue voter on *this issue* and pave the way for the Republicans to take back the presidency in 2024? And you’re going to stick to that position even if Trump is the nominee?

               Unpopular opinion: I voted for Biden because of what he can do for America. I am sorry for what’s happening in Afghanistan but ultimately our own people are more important, and America is better off not continuing to send firehoses of money and our own sons and daughters over there to fight. The country was and would be worse off under Trump; just look how that went. I think Biden swung and missed hard on this one but I don’t think this disqualifies him to be president. I don’t think it would have gone much better if Trump (who brokered that crappy “peace agreement” with the Taliban and wanted all troops out in May of 2021, remember?) or anyone else had been president. Saying “I don’t think I can vote for Biden again” over this issue seems melodramatic to me. I also would be willing to bet hard cash money that in October of 2024 the majority of people here – like the majority of people in America – will barely remember that this whole thing happened. Especially if Biden manages to get that infrastructure bill passed and forgives at least some student debt. I hate to be like “no one cares about foreign policy” but seriously – we’re still in a pandemic; we’ve got rampant poverty and homelessness in cities; crime is up; the middle class is still eroding rapidly; our healthcare system is broken, etc. etc. etc. That trillion dollars we spent in Afghanistan sure could have helped us with a lot of problems Americans have, instead of going to line defense contractor pockets. Whether or not Biden handled the pullout in Afghanistan as well as he could have is very far down on my list of reasons to vote for him or not vote for him, and I would hazard most Americans feel the same. Maybe stop watching/reading so much news, it seems to be warping some of your perspectives.

            7. Anonymous, you’re free to not view it as unforgivable to preside over what may end up being the greatest avoidable humanitarian and foreign policy disaster in recent memory. I’m not telling you how to vote. But I’m also never going to agree that this is unimportant in the grand scheme and that issues at home matter more than the immediate risk of death to the countless citizens of Afghanistan who risked their lives to help the U.S. and then got completely shafted. Having morals and ethics means doing the right thing and saving lives, even if it’s not your own family and friends at risk of harm.

            8. Anon at 2:24: Coolzies. Just so you know, in October of 2024, if this blog is still here, I’m going to do a roll-call and ask where all my people at that said they “couldn’t vote for Biden again” because of this incident, and see who you’re voting for. (As an aside, really wish we could have done this with trackable handles for all the people who said in February of 2020 that Covid was nothing to worry about and we’d never go into lockdown.) My wild guess (which I would bet $1,000, hard cash, to back up) is that there will be many more things you will have gotten sanctimoniously morally outraged about between now and that point, and you likely won’t even remember more than one or two details of this incident. I mean, when you’re that high up on the horse, not much is going to escape your notice, right? There will be plenty more things you will have gotten temporarily terribly upset about (and then forgotten) before the 2024 election. Hope you’re still around in 3 years and 2 months, if I’m wrong you can post your Venmo and we’ll square up that way.

            9. wow, anon. Listen to yourself.

         2. Thanks for sharing this, I appreciate the insight. No particular knowledge of International Affairs and it seems to me that having a hard date is a bad idea. Wasn’t the hard date negotiated by the Trump administration though and wasn’t the Biden administration bound to that? Please correct me if I’m wrong. I am really upset that they did not protect translators/other allies/the airport prior to the withdrawal, regardless of the date.

      2. thank you for your service

      3. Former Army officer here who spent a year in Kabul. ^This.

         This was always going to be the outcome. Anyone who ever worked with the Afghan army and government knew they weren’t going to hold. You can’t franchise values. Men won’t die for values that aren’t their own.

         Our responsibility as Americans is to prevent, as best we can, future generations from fighting ideological wars.

         1. In your experience, other than not going there in the first place, is there anything that could have been done to have a substantially different outcome, and was there a point when it wasn’t yet “always going to be like this”?

            1. No.

      4. I agree with you and thank you so, so much for weighing in on this issue. I do think we should grant asylum to an awful lot of people ASAP, and get our allies to do the same.

         While Biden is the current president, so much of the blame for how this is going down can be laid squarely at the feet of the Bush administration.

         1. Yes, let’s grant asylum and maybe people can fly planes into buildings again. Do you even remember 9/11?

            1. I remember none of them were Afghani.

   5. I was a senior in college on 9/11 and protested against the war in Iraq. I remain incandescently furious about the way both wars were handled by the Bush administration. We’ve only ever made things worse and it’s unbelievably arrogant to think that we know better than the people that live there. I’m horrified about the way things have ended and think we should do everything we can to help our allies get out, but I’m not sure there was ever going to be another way. It now seems abundantly clear that as soon as we left, things were always going to fall apart rapidly and it’s not clear that there was another way to do it.

      1. It’s abundantly clear that there were better, other ways to leave on a well planned 18 month transition time line. We’ve done it before in other conflicts. Instead it’s a Trump like farce based on a silly date of Biden wanting to say we are out before the 20 year anniversary of 9/11.

         I’m very worried about the impacts of this on the 2022 midterms. There was strong agreement on leaving but Biden is going to get hammered by the GOP for ‘leaving like a loser’.

         1. I agree on the fallout. It will be deserved.

         2. See, that’s what I’m really not clear on. I’m not an Afghan expert, but I do know that it’s always easy to give theoretical takes in retrospect, while it’s always much harder to put actual policies into place in practice, especially in Afghanistan. It’s easy to say we should have done a better job and obviously it’s a huge moral failure to leave translators and other people that helped us behind. But that’s completely different than it actually being possible to implement a withdrawal that goes smoothly. That would have required the military and foreign policy establishment being willing to admit that the whole thing was a house of cards that would immediately fall apart when we started to leave, and their only answer to that was to say that we shouldn’t leave. If you refuse to see what’s in front of your eyes, you make bad plans, and I’m not sure it was ever going to be any other way. I wish it could have been, but we’ve spent half my lifetime screwing this up and it’s time to end it. I certainly think we should be doing everything we possibly can to get out translators, etc. and welcome them to the US (and if people have resources for any groups working on this, I’d like to know about them), but I’m just a lot less convinced than some people are that it was possible for this war to ever end well. That just seems like wishful thinking.

            1. +1 I agree with all of this. There are experts and military experts who have been trying to figure out how to end our involvement for ~19 years…I’m horrified by what is going on but I also don’t think we should be playing American imperialist in Afghanistan forever…this was a problem with invading the entire country to begin with. If this wasn’t the way to do it, and we weren’t cool with Obama’s way of doing it and Trump’s way of doing it (because it didn’t seem like they were real plans for getting out), then what else is left than to just leave?

               And then I think of the women and my heart hurts. I am heartbroken for the women and children, and I wish we could evacuate and give refugee status to every one of them that would leave the country if they could.

         3. Honestly though? This withdrawal is incredibly shameful, embarrassing, and if Biden gets hammered for it, he deserves it. People are dying at the airport in Kabul right now and he hasn’t even issued a statement.

            1. Do you remember the end of Argo? I was evacuated from Teheran early, with my mother and sister (dependents got sent home first). My father was evacuated maybe a month later. This was in the 1970s. I don’t get how we didn’t get how to do a good drawdown vs a hot mess that my summer interns could have done better at. Don’t announce: we’re leaving the country in 2 weeks and expect that those two weeks will be peaceful. And I get stabby re the interpreters. Our military is f*cked from all allies going forward now and it didn’t have to happen.

   6. Frustrated would be the word I would use to describe my feelings. The only thing I’m sad about is not getting interpreters/translators/etc who worked with us for twenty years out of there. I’m angry that we waited nine and half years to finally get bin Laden. I’m angry we got lied into a stupid war in Iraq. I’m horrified that women are going to once again bear the brunt of the horror that is going to be unleashed again.

   7. We needed to leave but the withdrawal was managed very badly. It’s especially shameful how poorly the US managed evacuating people who aided the military.

   8. Sad for sure but we cannot prop them up forever. 20 years is enough. In 1 year or 5 years or 20 more years it would just be the same.

      1. There’s a difference between leaving vs. fleeing and leaving behind all your embassy local staff and army translators who risked their lives to work for you. Almost no one is saying that the US should have stayed. But living behind people who risked their lives to help US soldiers is immoral.

         1. +1. This is a huge stain on our country. I’m incredibly upset and just absolutely furious at this cowardly, embarrassing, and profoundly immoral retreat like thieves in the night.

         2. Agreed 1000%.

         3. Exactly.

   9. Admittedly, this is not my wheelhouse, but what about if there had been some sort of international and multilateral peacekeeping/support force that stayed? I agree that you can’t force others to adapt your values and that a self-supported Afghanistan will never look like what us Westerners would want (and also that we shouldn’t be forcing our culture/way of life on others who clearly dont want it (except for things like allowing the mistreatment of women, killing interpreters, etc.), but abandoning the country, allowing the Taliban to rule and imprison/torture/kill countless Afghans, allowing the subjugation of girls and women, etc. is just beyond the pale.

   10. Nobody in the military ever got promoted for saying “We can’t do this.”

       1. Unless you’re former military, kindly shut the he11 up with this kind of talk. You’re talking about me, my family, and my friends, and it’s sure as he11 not true.

          1. Today is not about your family. Today is about the people we screwed over in Afghanistan.

             1. Both of you eff off and go to m0thereffing he11. You think everyone I know who served isn’t effed up today, crying in their homes today, crying for the terps who we don’t know if they made it out, crying for the Afghans we know, crying for our g0dd@mn brothers and sisters we lost? Do NOT attack the military today. Do NOT say sh1t like we don’t care. Do NOT utter offensive bullsh1t like “nobody ever got promoted.” This whole thing is just a news story for you – in a few minutes, you’ll change the channel and go about your lives. It’s personal for us – WE.KNOW. these people. We laughed with them and broke bread with them and knew this result was inevitable, but watching it unfold still hurts – and tossing insults around about us is beyond the pale. So I’m done. I’m hopping off the Internet. You keep being upset for half an hour and believing the military is made up of bloodthirsty monsters and worrying about whatever first world problems you have, and we, the members of the military, will keep reaching out to each other to see if we’re ok and keep doing our best to uphold the good this nation represents, even when we’re given no-win missions on the other side of the world.

             2. Gently, that includes our family and friends who served in Afghanistan. This whole thing is a mockery of the sacrifices they made, and some of them did make the ultimate sacrifice.

   11. I was on the subway this morning and there was a couple in their 50s. The man was silently praying with prayer beads, the woman was crying silently. They both look devastated and I had no idea what to say or if anything, but my heart went out to them. The photos and stories out of Afghanistan, especially for women and girls, are ABSOLUTELY HORRIFYING to me. The way this has all been handled has been a terrible moral failure; the fact that Western countries including the US and UK are essentially shrugging now and saying ‘sorry, we can’t get you out after all’ to all the people who helped their efforts and who we had promised safe haven is shameful and outrageous. But we’re still sending planes for our people, just not enough for Afghans we made a commitment to. I do not think the US should necessarily stay anywhere in the world indefinitely propping up a foreign government, but the troop presence was not that significant and there were comparatively very low casualties at this point. I think we’re totally throwing caution to the wind in Afghanistan now and seeing the Taliban release AQ from prison was… alarming. What a nightmare

   12. I feel physically ill watching the scenes unfold. I think its a combo of heartbreak over the government malfeasance that lead to this situation, empathy for the innocent lives at stake, and fear that this could happen in the US. During 2020 the idea that the US govt would collapse under attack from religious extremist militias seemed entirely plausible. It still does, but it felt more imminently plausible back then, like an immediate threat. I have this fear of needing to flee and being trapped, watching that happen to the people of Afghanistan is really really painful.

       1. Perhaps this will prove to be naiveté on my part, but I really feel like equating life as a woman under the Taliban to life in the United States is a gigantic exaggeration and grossly diminishes the real experience of the woman living under the Taliban. The January 6 attack was a serious event, but in my opinion not even remotely on par with what is happening in Afghanistan.

          1. Caveat to add: I’m not trying to invalid your feelings Anon, especially if you live in DC. I live in middle America, rural purple-Red area. The Trump supporters I know where horrified with the January 6 attack and agreed it went too far. So that’s where I’m coming from, but I appreciate you may be coming from a different place.

             1. You’re not paying attention to what Republican Congressional Leadership is doing in response to January 6. The core is rotten and we are FAR closer to collapse than you think.

          2. It’s also a reminder, though, that’s women’s rights can backslide to Taliban levels. Women in Afghanistan had more rights 60 years ago than they do today.

   13. Yes on many fronts.

       We should never have invaded in the first place. Invading Afghanistan is like invading Russia in winter. It never ends well. It was always a war with no path to “victory”.

       The withdrawal was handled badly and based on faulty intelligence. We appear to have assumed that Afghan security forces would put up SOME kind of resistance. They did not. That meant we did not have time for an orderly withdrawal. And while the decision to leave was Trump’s (and I did not disagree) the logistical screw up here is on Biden and his team. (And a little, really cynical part of me things they went forward with the original timeline on the assumption that the US public is mostly going to forget about this by midterms because [see my point below].)

       And finally I am completely convinced that the country as a whole would absolutely be in the same place once we left whether that was 15 years ago and 15 years from now. It should have been less of a mad scramble at the last minute. We might have been able to get more of the people who worked with us out. But when we talk about what is going to happen to women and children in general, the end result was always going to be the same. Which does not make it less horrible.

8. Low stakes Qs – do you store your clothing in one closet or multiple? Do you separately store seasonal clothing or is everything in one closet?

   1. One smallish closet (that’s all I have) with out of season stuff stored under my bed. One day I’ll have more storage space, but I”m still in the new apartment/new roommates every year phase of life.

      1. Should add that I also have a dresser and that I store athletic clothes in a bin in my closet.

   2. NYC apartment dweller. Bedroom has 2 closets — one for me, one for partner. Clothing is all in one closet (standard 4-5′, single hanging bar and one shelf) plus a dresser. I keep a bunch of suit jackets, a dress, and shoes at work. Outerwear and all shoes live in hallway closet (I do not wear shoes in the apartment). After reading Marie Kondo’s book I realized that she’s right and switching out seasonal clothing is too much of a PITA to make it worth it. So I only own what fits in the storage space I have (TBH closet is only about 1/2 full and dresser about 2/3).

      1. Would love to hear about your process of getting rid of clothes, what kind of clothes you have, etc. My closet and bureau are bursting at the seams and I would love to downsize my wardrobe but I”m not very good at it. A half full closet is my dream!

         1. Basically KonMari. But the most important part that people tend to ignore is that you have to have a vision for your ideal life/wardrobe. For clothes that’s something akin to personal style. My clothes are not mix-and-match, but mostly in distinct outfits so there are no “orphans” or indecision about what can I wear with this skirt (e.g. these pants go best with these 2 silk tops or this sweater). I never buy something just because it’s on sale or a great item objectively — it has to be something that really suits ME, that I feel like myself in, and that fits with how I like to dress. I completely ignore any and all rules about what I’m “supposed” to own or wear. Once you separate out the clothes that you absolutely love and dress only in them for a few weeks, everything else is actually really easy to get rid of. I read the Kondo book when it first came out in the US in 2014, and it took me 2-3 runs through my wardrobe to really get it down. But since then my wardrobe has not changed much in size. I get rid of things when they are worn out or I’m really over them, and I replace with items that fit into a similar role but are not necessarily identical because styles change.

            For example — for summer casual wear, I always have 3-5 dresses, ~2 pairs of shorts, and ~4 t-shirts/tanks, 2-3 sandals. Every single item is one that I wear regularly, and I always have multiple options for things I’m going to do that weekend. In 2015 I had a bunch of tighter v-neck Ts, and now I have 1 of those and 3 boxier U neck Ts. In 2015 I had a bunch of t-shirt dresses and now I have 1 t-shirt dress, 2 midi-length dresses, 1 midi-length linen skirt, and 1 linen shift with buttons. I only buy 2-4 things for summer each year, but my wardrobe always stays small but current. EG this year I bought black leather slide sandals, linen button front shift, a white loose tank top, and a midi length linen skirt. I threw out sandals with a low heel that had fallen apart, donated a t-shirt dress and a tank dress, and repurposed 2 old t-shirts to rags. Summer of 2020 I bought a pair of denim shorts (I only had 1 before) and birkenstocks (to replace 8 year old ones that wore out).

            Honestly for someone who works 5 days a week and wears work clothes, I have a hard time imagining owning much more than that for a summer wardrobe. I would then wear each item only 1-2 times the whole summer, and in 3-5 years (aka 3-10 wears) it’ll be dated and I’ll feel guilty getting rid of a perfectly good item of clothing that I barely wore. Or I would wear the same number of clothes but have them surrounded in my closet by stuff I don’t like that I have to dig through. This way by the time something feels dated or I’m bored of it, I’ve either worn it into the ground or at least got a lot of wears out of it. Some stuff (like basic tshirts) wears out in a couple of years but some stuff lasts forever (1 pair of shorts I’ve had since before my first KonMari purge in 2014).

            Oh and also I generally gain about 1-2 lbs a year since turning 30, so slowly my clothes adjust in size as I replace older stuff that I grew out of. If my weight fluctuated significantly I probably would have to approach my wardrobe in a different way.

            1. Oh and PS there’s no need to be militant about being minimalistic about everything. I swim rarely and really don’t need more than 1, maybe 2, swimsuits, but I own 3 because I enjoy each of them and like picking which one to wear. Similarly I own at least 2x more outerwear than I really need. No one other than you can tell you how many items to have in each category, as long as each item is something you honestly like and happily wear at the correct occasion.

            2. My struggle with keeping a streamlined wardrobe is the weight fluctuations. I’m currently a size 8, but 10 lbs fewer means I’m in a size 6 and a bunch of dresses and pants that don’t fit me right now will fit again. Another 7-10 lbs and I’ll be in a size 4 (yay being short and carrying all the weight in my hips and tummy). And I’m currently losing about 1 lb/month so it’s not implausible I’ll be wearing the 6s this time next year and the 4s shortly thereafter, so there’s no point in discarding all of those items now just to have to repurchase.

            3. @No Problem, yes, that’s totally different from my situation and I can’t offer real advise as I don’t have similar experience to draw on. During my pregnancy though, I did find it helpful to segregate just those clothes that fit at the moment so that I had an easier time getting to them. After, I really had no idea what to do because I didn’t know what clothes would fit day to day after having the baby and my closet was a bit of a mess for about a year and change until I got that all sorted out.

         2. Not OP, but I don’t keep anything that’s not flattering. If I don’t feel great wearing it, it’s gone.

   3. Multiple closets and bureaus, but sorted by what is hangable/foldable rather than by season. We have extreme temperatures, and my cold-weather clothes are too bulky to fit anywhere other than the master walk-in.

      1. random but is bureau a regional term? I’m the only one of my friends who say it, and it looks like everyone else on this thread besides us uses dresser? I’m from the NE

         1. I think it might be. My Massachusetts-born partner introduced it to Midwestern me (camp dresser over here).

         2. I use the two terms interchangeably; also in NE. My elderly WASP relatives also use(d) chifferobe, davenport, etc.

         3. I would also use the term ‘bureau’ but to mean what interiors places seem to call a ‘Secretary desk’ – a chest of drawers with a fold-down desk surface.

            1. my biggest pandemic desk buying regret was that I couldn’t find a secretary desk that worked with my space. I loveeeee them.

         4. I say bureau and I’m originally from the Northeast.

         5. Wait? You mean to tell me its a bureau and not a chester drawers? :)

   4. I’ve only ever had one closet and one dresser. Everything goes in those two, except winter jackets which can be stored in a hall closet, if available.

   5. I have a triple wardrobe (armoire?), a chest of drawers (dresser?), and a couple of small metal trunks, which between them hold everything. Out of season stuff is packed away into storage boxes that go at the foot of the hanging space in the wardrobe. I know I could use less space if it were laid out more efficiently.

   6. Several. Our bedroom has a small walk-in closet and 2 reach-in closets. I put most of my hanging clothes in the walk-in closet and put foldable clothes either on the shelves of the walk-in or in a dresser. The walk-in closet has minimal vertical hanging space, and that’s all the way at the back, so I put coats and bathrobes in one of the the reach-in closets. I also have some suits and sheath dresses that are currently too small in a guest bedroom closet.

   7. I have a small closet, old house, so I also use a coat closet at the end of a hall for out of season items. In addition, I have some Rubbermaid tubs that store things in the attic.

   8. 99% of our clothing is in our small walk in closet. Husband has one side and I have the other, plus on the back wall there is a lowboy dresser that I have all of.

      The other 1% is nicer wedding guest dresses/suits that are stored in our guest room closet.

   9. My life got a lot easier when I de-accessioned clothing to the point that I could keep everything in one closet. I have a large closet, which helps. The whole “let me switch clothes from one closet to another seasonally” got unmanageable and my “storage” closet wouldn’t allow me to see what I had when I was buying pre-season, so I ended up with duplicate items. Now everything I own is in one place, I can see it all year-round, and if I take a tropical vacation in December or go to a cooler location in the summer, I can access everything I need without having to move things around (or buy things because I forgot what’s in the other closet).

   10. Two closets, one Summer and one Winter. I used to swap them, but now just leave everything spread out across two bedrooms.

9. Most romantic hotels/spas in Florida?

   Hi my wife posts here regularly and said this was THE place to crowdsource recs for a romantic weekend spot here in FL (limited to FL since I just have Fri-Sun) couples weekend (21 years anniv).

   I know FL sucks (I live here, I GET IT) but need to keep it local due to time constraints.

   Excluding panhandle and keys (LONG drives), I am looking at Omni amelia isl, vinoy st pete, jw macro island, ritz palm beach?

   Thoughts?

   Thanks for your help
   A Planning Husband

   1. I haven’t been to the locations you list, but the Eau Palm Beach is wonderful.

      And can you train my husband to plan a trip like this? Swoon! Hope you guys have a fun weekend!

   2. The Ritz isn’t in Palm Beach proper I don’t think – maybe on Singer Island? (If you want easy access to the nice PB dining you probably want to stay on-island.)

      I commented over the weekend but for PB, would add the Breakers to your list as well as the Brazilian Court, and would personally pass on the Colony.

      The Ritz in Naples is lovely although I haven’t stayed there, only had sunset c-cktails.

      1. it’s been years since I’ve been, but my family used to regularly go to Singer Island for fall break vacations and it’s a great spot. Can’t speak to the spa aspect, but it’s such a great spot.

         1. True- Singer Island is very pretty – though I also haven’t been in several years – and you have easy access to the state (?) park. More as an FYI in case being in PB proper is important.

   3. The Omni Amelia Island is very much a family resort. I would not do that one.

   4. It can be anywhere from MIA in south to jax in north. No keys, no panhandle. SOme good stuff so far thanks so much y’all.

      1. I would look into the Faena in Miami. If you’re open to in-person entertainment the cabaret show is very good and the hotel itself is very adults and luxe. My other faves in the Miami area are the Mandarin (best spa IMHO) and the Aqualina. The Four Seasons Surf Club is supposed to be excellent, the one in downtown Miami is more of a high end events/conventions vibe.

10. I know I’m exhausted and recovering from burn out, but I keep making stupid work mistakes and it’s really frustrating. I can’t seem to get myself to do more than the bare minimum, which isn’t acceptable right now. Between a lacking work ethic and several dumb mistakes and taking way too long to finish things, I fear that I’m not far from a PIP.

    Any tips on how I can get my act together again?

    1. If you are truly making mistakes and worried about a PIP, be the one to bring it up to your boss.
       “Boss, I know I made a mistake on the Big Cupcake Summary. I have been struggling with some things and am [implementing a checklist/declining new work until I get caught up/whatever] to improve. I am wondering if [request from them if needed, i.e., a week of no new projects, a different start to the day, a proofreader, whatever]. I care about this job and want to get back on track.”

       If you are NOT making noticeable mistakes to others, your boss doesn’t care, or the rest of your peers are equally in this spot, then I say don’t bring it up. But as someone who writes PIPs for a living, I think it’s best to get ahead of it if the mistakes are truly noticeable and likely to draw a PIP (then you’re not just responding/on the defensive, you look like a proactive employee). One thing: no excuses unless it’s medical, even then, not an excuse.

    2. YMMV but if you’re WFH I find a 10 min walk before starting my work day really helps.

    3. Every morning, I sit down and figure out what MUST be done. I do the same thing for the week on Monday. Then, my focus is making sure I get all those things done. My ideal self would do more, but my real self is the one working. I also make checklists so I don’t drop a ball.

       If I’m not focused, I find it is better to admit it and go for a walk, take a laundry break, talk to coworkers, run a quick errand, etc. Then get back to work.

    4. Can you address it proactively with your manager? Sometimes just talking about the fears and having them validated/invalidated can break the cycle of struggling or at least give you someone to help you structure your approach.

    5. No advice but I literally sat up straight in my chair when I read this because I am SO here right now. I work in PK-12 public ed administration so I have been running at full speed since March 2020. I am so, so tired. For a long time I was fine on the weekends/on vacation – would do my regular exercise and chores and social time with friends, had plenty of energy, etc. But now the exhaustion is bleeding into my personal time. I can’t get myself to do anything at work lately. So…at least there are two of us.

       1. I think there’s a LOT of us feeling this way

    6. Everyone has ups and downs in their productivity and if they say they don’t, they are lying. I read some great tips from Captain Awkward on this type of scenario: https://www.google.com/amp/s/captainawkward.com/2011/12/11/question-148-my-work-performance-suffers-when-i-dont-feel-confident-which-makes-me-feel-less-confident-how-can-i-break-this-loop/amp/

11. For those of you in industries hit hard by the pandemic: healthcare, public health, first responders, etc. what, if anything, has your employer done to thank you/make things better/give you a breather after the last year?

    I work in public health preparedness/response so obviously the past 18 months have been hellacious, and I fear that we’re gearing up for a rough fall/winter. I’ve been placed on my office’s newly morale committee (probably because I’m constantly a bug in leadership’s ear about how bad morale is, how we need to do something, etc). The hours/stress have definitely been the hardest part of the last year, but we’re also dealing with a total boys club (both internally and with partner agencies) and a lot of tension with partner agencies, anger from the public, and having partners not meet expectations and have to bail them out, so it just overall sucks. We’re an office of 60, but have had 12 people leave in the last 6 weeks because they’re at the end of their rope. I don’t blame them (I’m job searching too!) but if we have to deal with delta while being short staffed, I think everyone will up and quit.

    I work in government, so unfortunately things involving $ or extra PTO are probably off the table (sadly! A big fat bonus and a week off would do wonders for my mental health). However, if other similar organizations have been able to work in financial/time off rewards, I’d love to hear it and bring it up to my bosses.

    Over the past 1.5 years, the most we’ve gotten from our leadership is an occasional email thanking us; obviously no one is in our industry for the money or the appreciation, but SOMETHING would have been nice at some point! The staff has literally given up their personal lives for over a year and leadership hasn’t even brought in coffee and donuts or something similarly small. Obviously, coffee and donuts doesn’t help clinical burnout, exhaustion, etc.

    1. Emails and remarks during meetings saying thank you. A one-day state park entry pass. A beach towel with the hospital logo on it.

       1. Oh the state park entry pass sounds nice! Especially if we could couple it with a personal day to enjoy it.

          I’m really over empty thank yous and shallow tokens of appreciation (and little giveaways that are just clutter). I’m honestly probably too burnt out to be doing this job because the concept of a beach towel making up for the last year makes me irrationally angry!

          I’m realizing that I really just want to force them to make real change, which will never happen (hence the job searching). I’ve worked in government/NGOs my entire life and this year has really, really turned me off from public service because the employment model really is pay people poorly and work them into the ground, when they leave replace them with new people and repeat.

          1. The anger isn’t irrational. I hear you. I gave my towel to someone who mentioned they needed towels.

             I have requested that we close for a day as a thank you, but it hasn’t gone anywhere nor do I expect it to.

    2. I’m in government too and have also been overworked over the past 18 months. Leadership keeps saying thank you but honestly it’s not enough. The only thing that would help would be work-specific policies designed to improve our working lives. My agency was WFH for months, then in-person as needed, and now we are being brought back 5 days a week starting in mid-September. Unfortunately some of our function has to be in person, so 2-3 days a week in person are necessary for almost everyone almost every week, but 5 days a week is not. We also have on-call shifts that have been historically done on site (and this has always been one of the worst parts of the job), but during the pandemic we were able to adjust operations to WFH during these shifts. Leadership refuses to allow us to continue to WFH during on call shifts that fall on nights and weekends past September, even though for 18 months it’s been shown that it’s entirely possible. Working a night shift on a Sunday night from your home is a whole different animal than at the office an hour away by public transit (we’re in a major city and most of us don’t have cars). I would look for similar things specific to your job that you can do.

       1. I’m afraid that they formed this committee thinking we’d organize a few happy hours and call it a day. I really hope we can provide actual change, but I’m not optimistic (knowing my leadership).

          +100 that leadership saying thank you is not enough! We’re in a similar boat that most of our work has to be done in person, so we can wfh when we’re able to but it’s only a few times a week (max).

    3. Healthcare here and any tokens that my employer has given us just aggravate me (super cheap face masks that went in the trash, t-shirts, etc.) – food is nice except it’s so tricky to find space to actually eat in the hospital that it can be a little dicey. If you have space to do an outdoor lunch somewhere I think that’s nice. What I really wish they would do is roll back all the COVID-related HR freezes so we can actually hire enough people to do all the work.

       1. 100% agree with the HR freezes. We’re bleeding staff right now, and only 1 of the open positions has been posted. We replaced someone several months ago and that hiring process took about 5.5 months! Between hiring freezes, issues with HR, and the fact that no one in my office has time to interview/hire/onboard people we’re really struggling with staffing levels.

    4. Food provided on shift would be great. When we were working long hours for the response, I did not have time/energy to food shop and cook, but I hated wasting my OT money on meals while at work (especially since it was breakfast, lunch, dinner and multiple coffees). This also would have been one less life maintenance thing and one less decision when I had decision fatigue.

       Paid parking at work would also have been great. I either biked to work when I was exhausted, or I drove and paid to park near the office (which adds up for a 12-14 hour shift!). Likewise, Uber/Lyft vouchers.

       Whatever that can be done to make work less miserable: coffee + supplies in the office, a relaxed dress code, flexibility with wfh, flexibility with days off. If you have a uniform of sorts, extra uniform items (and masks!) to cut down on laundry.

       Basically, make life as easy as possible for people working 90+ hour weeks while making 60k a year.

       For morale: if you provide food, encourage people to take a real break and eat together. Devote time at a standing meeting to be for ceiling (provide snacks?). If you do office social activities, invite vaccinated family members to attend (and unvaccinated but masked children). Staff has given up time with their families this year, so incorporate families into staff morale boosting/building activities. I’m actually very pro optional (but well attended) social activities.

       If someone has coverage, give them a half day. Or, give them a work from home day where all they have to do is answer the phone if something goes bad and they’re needed, otherwise they can down shift a bit. When things calm down, don’t put restrictions on using leave. Let people take as much as they want. When things return to normal, don’t immediately rush into he next project. Give people some down time to recover.

       1. We only had one brief period when we were allowed to eat together indoors since Covid started. And I’m not sure how to make sure an event will be “well attended” without requiring it, which is a terrible idea. But otherwise I agree with all this.

          1. Luckily we’re currently able to eat inside together (for now…), and we have some picnic tables outside too! I really like the idea of encouraging folks to eat together – in my office every meal is a working meal which is a real downer.

       2. Paid parking! With govt jobs that’s probably not feasible, but I agree that that would have been so nice to have. Even though parking was completely opened up at the hospital where I work, we still had to pay our exorbitant parking pass price.

          1. Great idea! At my office it’s metered street parking- I paid way too much on the days I would drive in! I think this *might* be feasible, if we work for the county and the county is the one that oversees the meters?

             I used to have a great bus commute but stopped that during peak covid and there weren’t great alternatives

             1. I bet if you can make something work, people would really appreciate it! Parking is like the second most sensitive topic where I work (after desk space).

12. I need some advice. My first real career mentor and the man who gave me my first internship passed away unexpectedly last week. I’m devastated and normally I would send a card or flowers. However this is complicated by the fact that his daughter and only child was once my closest friend and we had a substantial falling out about 5 years ago. She is not someone I have any desire to remain in contact with but I feel bad not doing anything because I deeply appreciated this man. Idk. Maybe I just make an anonymous donation in his name to a cause he cared about? Or just say a extra prayer for him? I don’t know how to navigate this.

    1. Was he married? Send the card and flower or donation receipt to his wife. Otherwise, I think an anonymous donation in his name would be good. Or even just send it in your name. You don’t have to reciprocate if the ex-friend reaches out, but it might be especially meaningful to her that you remembered her father despite your falling out.

       1. +1
          I wouldn’t do anything anonymous, but you also don’t have to reopen communication lines with the daughter. Totally fine to send a donation/card/flowers with your name on it and be done with it

       2. Keep it anonymous. If the daughter feels anywhere similar to OP, it’s going to be salt in the wound.

    2. You send the card. It doesn’t mean you are reestablishing a relationship with his daughter.

    3. Is his spouse still living? I would address card/flowers to spouse with kind words about his involvement in your life and leave the daughter out of it.

       If not, maybe just send directly to the funeral home and don’t put any contact info on there.

    4. If there’s a funeral planned, I’d send flowers/card to the church/funeral home/whatever the venue is and address is generally (rather than to the daughter)

    5. This is one of those instances where you’ll need to carefully consider if you sharing your condolences is about comforting the family or about dealing with your own feelings. I navigated a bit of this when my ex was injured and later died. There’s no one right or wrong way for it to work out, but you do have to be careful that whatever action you take isn’t (or can’t be perceived) to be self-centered.
       I’m sorry for your loss.

       1. Definitely this.

       2. This is great advice.

    6. Condolences are for the family so you need to put aside your feelings about his daughter and just write a heartfelt but brief note. You can contribute to any causes they name in the obituary if you feel so moved. But now is not the time to nurse a grudge.

       1. +1

          I had a similar experience to your own.

          This is the one time you send a card to the family/friend directly and tell them how deeply sorry you are and write a few words and give an experience or two about their father that made an impression on you. The family/friend will remember this forever and the impact of your grace for rising above past experiences at the worst time in the lives can be transforming. I can’t emphasize this enough.

          It doesn’t mean you have to reinitiate a relationship. It just means you are human and caring.

    7. I would definitely donate to a cause anonymously. But I don’t trust most humans to act appropriately or rationally and generally skew more cautious than most.

    8. There may be an online obituary and you can post a tribute there. And of course if there is a living spouse you should direct your condolences to them.

    9. Traditions and protocols are useful at a time like this. Send a card to his wife, be sympathetic and gracious, and that is enough. If you want to make a donation, don’t be anonymous. You and the daughter can continue to keep distance and not speak.

    10. Does his obituary list an organization for donations in his memory? That is the route I’d take.

13. Does anyone here have a diagnosis of early onset rheumatoid arthritis? I’m probably grasping at straws here but I think I want to get some diagnostics done to check if I do and I’m not sure where to even start. I’m 32 and chronically fatigued, my fingers and toe joints ache and are stiff constantly and seem to have gotten worse with time. The real concern is I suffer from chronic migraines and I have long-suspected I have some underlying undiagnosed inflammatory condition, like RA or Hashimotos or fibromyalgia but have never acted upon this suspicion.

    1. My mom’s RA diagnosis began with her GP. When her bloodwork came back with the rheumatoid factor she was referred to a rheumatologist. In the US you can likely start with a standard physical and bring up your concerns there.

    2. Yup! Find a good rheumatologist, and in my experience they book up pretty early. Make sure you get the full panel of testing, and be prepared to work with ancillary providers to see results (i.e. nutrionists, physical therapists). There are a lot more treatment options than there used to be, but in my experience (I’ve been diagnosed, as was my mom and a few other folks in my maternal family) lifestyle changes also help a lot.

    3. Hello, fellow chronic migraine sufferer! I went through a period a few years ago when I also had a lot of hand pain so I had my PCP do the blood test for RA- it was very easy. In my case it came back negative and the hand pain eventually got better, though I still have considerable neck pain along with my migraine pain (which does get better as my migraine pain is treated, but doesn’t go away completely). I’d definitely start with the basic RA test and also check thyroid, but I think it’s not at all uncommon to be generally pain sensitive along with chronic migraine without having any of those other conditions- migraine is basically a neurological disorder that causes sensory sensitivity.

    4. First, I’m sorry. RA is the devil.

       Go to a good rheumatologist. A lot of RA (50% maybe?) is seronegative which means it doesn’t show up on bloodwork. Insist on an x-ray, if there is going damage it is a smoking gun. They will tell you lifestyle and diet don’t matter but they are lying, I have never met someone with an AI disease who didn’t do better with some lifestyle adjustments once they tried them. Be emotionally prepared that it could take years to find the right treatment combo.

       1. Joint damage, not going damage!

    5. In your position, I would try to find out who a really good rheumatologist is near you. Sometimes EDS patients know (not saying you have EDS, but whether a doctor can handle EDS patients says a lot). Then you can ask your PCP for a referral (or self-refer if both your insurance and the specialist’s office allow it).

       1. This – I have undiagnosed but STRONGLY suspected EDS (migraines, and multiple serious chronic underlying joint and bone issues, vein issues, etc.). Unfortunately if it IS EDS there is very little to do other than treat the issues as they arise. One thing to be aware of, via my orthopedist who treats one of my joint issues, is that you may not WANT to be officially diagnosed with EDS. If it’s in your chart it could very well make it harder for you to get health and life insurance later on (I’m just 40, at your age I wouldn’t chance it). Yay US medical system….

    6. I was diagnosed with RA in my early fifties but it had probably gone on for much longer. One of the most surprising benefits of starting medication for it was that it cleared up things I hadn’t thought of as possible signs – like all my foot problems I had been seeing a podiatrist for cleared up within 4 months of starting Humira.

       Definitely get checked out for it. For me it was just a blood draw (in response to symptoms.) My rheumatoid factor and ANA were off the charts.

14. How do Express shirts fit? I am a pear and maybe should size up — from the pics it seem that their shoppers may be younger and maybe being older I might risk a too snug bottom have of a shirt meant to be untucked.

    1. Express clothing in general fit me really well, but I’ve been told that it is because I’m tall and very thin. My friends with different body types have not had as much luck shopping at express. It also does skew younger.

    2. I don’t remember the hips being narrow, but it’s been a few years. They’re more tailored in the torso so if shirts typically fit like sacks on you they should fit better.

    3. I’m a very short pear, and Express fits me well across the board. It’s probably not a good brand for apples.

15. I know there’s been a ton of threads on this, but am looking for either good search terms or links to specific posts.

    Are there any posts on how to spend down time between jobs, especially if you’re transitioning from one very demanding job (and you’re burnt out) to another demanding job (and so you’ll need to do some preparation to hit the ground running)? I’m applying to jobs that are similar to my exhausting public health job, and am fantasizing about what a week or two off between jobs might look like.

    1. One day for chores and life catch-up (at the very most), the rest of the time for a true vacation. No Netflix, no KonMari. Go outside as much as you can.

       1. Adding to schedule some time to connect with people in your life. Whether that’s lunch with a friend or a phone call per day to someone far away. That’s a self-care box that I usually forget checking.

       2. Thanks. If it works out, I think I could only finagle one week off between jobs, so limiting errands to one day would be good (probably to restock my work wardrobe).

    2. I think the main advice given in these scenarios is:
       – plan activities so you don’t get sucked into the netflix/social media cycle
       – don’t devote the whole time to chores (organizing, deep cleaning, etc). Do a little bit of that but don’t make it the focus of the whole week.
       – if at all possible, travel.

       1. Luckily, if this works out I’d have access to the family lake cabin!

          I am getting so ahead of myself here – I applied for this job a few days ago, haven’t even been contacted for sn interview yet, but if I’m fantasizing so much about leaving my job that I’m thinking what would I do with a week off between jobs then this is probably a sign I should move on!

          1. A lake is perfect for this! Get your paddleboard ready to go, invite a friend and go for a jet ski, set a personal goal to swim a mile…active rest is the way to rejuvenate.

             1. The cabin gets rented out all summer, but is available to the family again next week. I am SO EXCITED – it’s only 90 mins from our city and I’ll be spending every weekend there until it gets closed down (sadly it’s not winterized)

    3. For a week or two, I would wake up slowly around 8am, drink coffee and mess around in my garden, do one hour of yoga around 10am, take my time making a delicious lunch or going to eat at a small cafe, garden or errands in early afternoon, read in my hammock in the late afternoon, take my time making dinner, tv with husband in the evening.

       And most importantly – not talk to anyone until 3pm for at least the first few days. Including looking at my phone, if at all possible. At the end of June I came off of a crazy four week marathon and I’m convinced my one Monday off where I did the above staved off an immediate burnout.

       1. My approach is a bit different (but neither are wrong!) – I’d get up at 6, drive to the mountains, and spend the day hiking and swimming before it gets too hot to enjoy it. I’d get something delicious to eat and tire myself out with refreshing, fun activity that I don’t get to do all the time. Then early bedtime. Rinse and repeat!

          1. You’re my husband. :D Those are good days too!

    4. I would plan for a lot more sleep than I think I need. Normally when I finally let myself stop I have a 5-10 day period when I can seriously sleep from 8 pm to 10 am and take a nap. And then the rest of the day go for a long walk or a jog, eat a good mix of pastry and salad, read books, lift weights. Socialize mainly through casual encounters while buying said pastries or walking; not a lot of prolonged conversation.

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