Coffee Break: Caitlin Pump

143 Comments

1. I’m younger than most of the regular posters on this board (27) and I feel like I often read people talking about wanting to find a partner, it being so hard, etc, and I feel like I’m doing something wrong.

   I live in DC (so everyone in my circle gets married solidly in their 30s, at the earliest), and I just don’t make much of an effort toward dating. I swipe on apps from time to time, I’ve dated people I’ve met in person (through work or friends), but nothing has ever stuck, and I’ve never made much effort, and I’ve been picky, assuming that I have plenty of time.

   But do I? Reading the thread this AM from people giving advice to the 29 year old who potentially wants to get divorced made me think – should I be trying harder? Going on at least a few dates a month? Doing something differently? I’ve always viewed it as, I want a partner, but I’m young, and like my life, so why rush anything (and I’ve been picky as hell).

   Is that the wrong approach?

   1. The D.C. dating market is different than many other places. We are fortunate to have thousands of highly educated, ambitious, idealistic young professionals. Kinda like that infamous Yale mom said, you’ll never find a better selection of men than you have at your fingertips right now. When I was on dating apps in D.C. in 2016 at age 34-35 and recently divorced, I didn’t have a hard time finding eligible men to go out with and I soon met my now-husband. (In the throes of it, I was very “OMG, these guys are awful,” but statistically speaking, they were all eligible bachelors.)

      When you meet the right person, you won’t screen them out because you don’t like the way they part their hair or whatever – you’ll like them in spite of how they part their hair. So when you’re dating, if you’re not feeling it, you’re not feeling it and that’s ok. But if your goal is to be married and have a family someday – and if you imagine yourself moving back someday to wherever you’re from (because hardly any of us are from here) – you’ll want to at least make an effort to check out all the men here – it’s a smorgasbord you won’t find elsewhere.

      1. This is the exact opposite of the experience of me and my friends in DC. I’ve found that there are some 20-somethings that move to DC and are looking for a long-term partner and by 30, it seems like most of the guys who want a family are already in a serious relationship. When there are some single 30-somethings, many of the guys don’t want anything serious and the men are very outnumbered by women.

         If I could, I would go back in time till I was 26 and spend more time dating. I was in biglaw during my late 20s/early 30s, and didn’t make it a priority. Now that I’m focusing on it, there are just not that many single guys that I’m interested in. Everyone I know in DC says that they know tons of amazing single women in their 30s and that all the single men they know in their 30s are single for a reason.

         1. Not in DC, but this has been my experience in my city (that has lots of millennials) and by observing law school friends in coastal cities. It was like there was a rush to get married before you were 30. We have been to sooo many weddings in the past 1-2 years. Now that we are 30, all of our friends are single or married. There is no one dating or engaged.

         2. I realize I’m cynical, but I find a lot of men aren’t ready to settle down until they hit mid-30s, and then suddenly they want to find a wife and mother. But they don’t want a woman their own age.

            1. I think this is true. I’m Anon at 3:38, and several of my friends that have gotten married in the past year or so have married guys 8-10 years older. So they were 28-30, and the guy was 38-40. All 3-4 friends were lawyers and married lawyers.

            2. Quite so. OP, I’d recommend dating a guy in his early 30s.

      2. I’m 28 and single and this thread is making me anxious…

   2. If having a partner and especially having biological children is important to you, yes, I think you should be making more effort. Lots of people have a very fulfilling life without kids and a spouse though, and if you don’t want kids or are ambivalent about them, there’s much less rush.
      I don’t live in DC but I do live in a major city and almost all my friends have a grad degree and are very career focused. Nobody got married before 25 and very few people had kids before 30, but I would be surprised if so many people in DC really wait until 30+ just to get married. Marriage in late 20s-early 30s, kids in early-mid 30s is pretty common even in the most educated, career-driven circles, from what I’ve seen.

      1. I’m not trying to argue with you, but DC literally has the oldest average age of marriage of any state in the country – 30 for women and 31 for men, and that’s the whole population, not the higher educated/professional sub-set.

         1. Ok fair enough. I don’t know specifics about DC. I do think that even if the average age of marriage is 30/31, most people who are 27 and care about getting married are probably trying to date fairly seriously. A typical couple will be engaged for a year and date for a year or two before getting engaged (not saying a faster timeline isn’t possible, but I think this is a fairly average timeline) so most women who marry around age 30 probably meet their partners around age 27.

      2. I’m slightly younger than the OP and used to live in DC. I only knew a handful of people who were married in their 20s (and even so, that was late 20s) but I knew TONS of single people in their 30s.

         I think a lot of it depends on your job though. I was at an NGO with an international focus but staff were DC based and would travel to the field. Some people there were engaged or married late 20s/early 30s. No one had kids until mid/late 30s. I then got a new job doing humanitarian work (so lots of time spent overseas in really tough postings), and the only people at work who were married in their 20s were Mormon (and even so, that was mid/late 20s which I believe is on the older side for Mormons). People who were married probably started getting married mid 30s – mid 40s. There were many, many single people mid to late 30s. It really felt like people were on a ten year time delay.

         In my personal life, the only friends I had who were dating had started dating their SO in college/before moving to DC. I had one married friend, she was 4-5 years older than me, got married late 20s and that was likely due to the fact that her husband was military.

         DC is a weird place, and it definitely showed when it came to dating.

         1. Me too. I went to school in DC, and all the men who wanted to date me (other then other law students, who only wanted to have s-x with me) were much older (when I was 25, the men were 35-40), including 2 law professors who wanted to have s-x with me also, but NOT marry me. So when I did NOT get a permanaent job in DC, I came back to NYC, where the same thing went on. Men my age just wanted me to take my clothes off for them and do stuff, but NOT marry me, and much older divorced guys (55-65) wanted me to have s-x with them and marry them and have their second set of kids even tho I had little in common with them. So here I am, 38 years old with no boyfriend or husband material to work with, as I am now a partner in a law firm and men are intimided with me b/c of my status and smarts. I am NOT as pretty as I was 15 years ago, but the wrong guys continue to want me to have s-x, but that’s it. I did date a schmo for a couple years, and thought he had potential, but he became a drunk who sponged off of my good will and stained my carpets and sheets with his vomit and urine and then just treated me like his hand-servant. That is NOT for me, so I got rid of him with Dad’s urging and assistance.

            In short, you get what you get, and if I had to do it over again, I guess I would start earlier, and instead of working my tuchus off to become a partner, I would have spent more time looking for a guy to marry 15 years ago, right when I was a law student. If I had found the right guy, and married him, I would not even be working now. FOOEY!

            So good luck to you and I hope you snag a decent guy, if you can find one. YAY!!!!!

      3. What region is your city in?

         I used to live in DC and co-sign the observation that being single into your 30s is common. I now live in Philly and my friends are mostly scattered through cities in the northeast corridor, and even the “no one got married by 25” statement seems shockingly young to me.

         I’m mid 20s and I have only a few friends in relationships (dating people from college), but even they aren’t planning on getting married til 28+. I’d say 85% of my friends are single.

         I’m a big fan of R29’s money diaries and I’m always shocked at how many diarists are coupled there!

         1. Boston. “No one got married at 25” is a bit of an overstatement – I got married at 26 and was the first of my close friends to get married. But pretty much everybody got married between 28 and 30 and, as someone said below, it happened SUDDENLY. Like there was a bit of a hive mind element to it.

   3. I think it really depends on how high being partnered is on the list of your priorities. Do you want to spend the end of your 20’s with your eventual partner? Do you want to be dating and meeting new men, flings, relationships in your 30’s? Do you want bio kids with your partner? Do you want to be single and have more years being single, girls trips, solo travel, etc.?

      1. I do want bio kids, and I do eventually want to be partnered. I never viewed being partnered as mutually exclusive with single things (girls trips, solo travel) – obviously much harder after kids, but being partnered, less so.

         My friends are a mix of single and partnered (no married, with the exception of one college-sweetheart type couple that got married at 22/23) so I just don’t tend to feel the urgency I think a lot of folks would if they were in a friend circle with mainly partnered people.

         1. I feel the same way about girls trips and marriage not being mutually exclusive, but most of my girlfriends feel differently. We’re all married, but I’m the only one who still has any interest in girls trips. It’s a real bummer, and honestly probably my least favorite thing about aging.

            1. That makes me sad to hear, and yet I can already picture which friends will not be interested in friends weekends, etc once they’re settled down.

               My parents did/still do have an awesome social life. I just always assumed I’d have the same but you’re right, people do lose interest in it with age. It makes me so sad when people give up hobbies and social lives…

            2. Anon – you maybe need to find some new friends for girls trips. My high school friends are all kind of lame about it but my lawyer girls are awesome for travel – your peeps are out there.

   4. Do you want a partner? If so, I’d at least put some effort in. It’s not easier then years down the road.

   5. I’m 25 and in Edinburgh, Scotland. I’d always put dating on the back burner (I’d rather spend an evening with my friends than with some guy off Bumble who might be a waster) but this summer I’m starting to put a little more energy and time into it. There was discussion on here last week about how the guys who want to settle down aren’t going to be around for ever – I don’t want to be alone by default.

   6. I wasted three years of my mid-twenties on The Wrong Guy. So when I moved away, I wasn’t really looking for anything serious. About a year later, a friend encouraged me to try a dating app. I had three OK-to-poor dates, quit, then tried again and met my now-husband. I was 29 when we met. However, I think it does help to know the dating pool in your area. I am in the South and was prepared to date someone who had been previously married or had children. It’s about what’s important to you in a spouse and how much time you want to spend looking. The rest (a very big part) is luck.

   7. I don’t know the answer to this one. I felt like you at 27 (but with a gnawing sense of anxiety that time was running out), and I didn’t get into a long-term relationship until I was 34. I don’t want to tell you to start dating because time’s a-wastin’, because that always made me feel more anxious, not less. I dated sporadically in my late 20s, but I’d usually get frustrated and decide I was satisfied with my friends, job, etc.

      As it turns out, I, personally, am much happier now (in a relationship) than I have been for the past few years. My bf says the same about himself. If you think that might describe you, too, I’d hate for you to cut yourself off from a potential source of happiness and comfort in your life by avoiding dating. And my other caution is that at your age, your friends will start settling down in the next few years, and that can happen faster than you imagine it now, so while you might currently be happy single, that could change in a few years.

   8. The first step is that you’re happy with your life, so that’s great. Seriously, so many people aren’t, at so many ages.

      All I can say is that if you want to have children with a partner you’d probably start to get serious about finding one, because you likely don’t want to be in your mid thirties with no time to just be a couple before you start trying to conceive.

      If you don’t want to have kids, don’t worry about it.

      I am also not of the belief that a person should necessarily have only one partner for life. If it happens it’s very nice, but it doesn’t work out that wha for everyone.

   9. I’m 31 and I wish I’d started getting serious about it a little sooner. It really pains me to say that, because I think we should be able to do other things, like travel or focus intensely on work, but yeah, I wish I’d been more serious about dating earlier.

      1. Agreed. It would be nice to live like a man! No rush, enjoy life, take your time.

         1. 100%! I tell my (also single) male friends that I’m jealous of their timelines!

            I’d love to settle down in my late 30s/early 40s!

            1. It would be nice to have the option. But I don’t want to be in my 60s at retirement age with kids in college. I think many guys feel that way too

   10. I am 25 and haven’t been on a date in this decade…I have never tried apps and haven’t met anyone in person that I liked. I worry the same thing, am I going to wake up at 40 and be like oh shit I wasted all those years!
       But I am hesitant to try dating/apps since I’ve never had s*x and probably won’t feel ready till I’ve dated someone for quite a while and trust them and I don’t think most people will be ok with that…

       1. Someone out there will be ok with that, but you will never know unless you meet him.

       2. I think you would be surprised how many people would be ok with that! And to be blunt, it’s only going to get more awkward as you get older, why don’t you try to meet someone now?

       3. Trying to say this compassionately, because my younger self dealt with a lot of pressure: the very idea that “most people” won’t be okay waiting is harmful to relationships. It gives the person who wants to be physical the upper hand, and the person who wants to wait is the one who has some ‘splaining to do. That’s all backwards. The norm should be to go at the slower person’s pace, and a man who loves you will not mind waiting. I speak from experience on this, both as someone who was dumped (by men who didn’t really care much) and someone who dated men who were happy to wait.

          It’s almost always going to be amazing for men. For women, it runs the gamut: sometimes great, sometimes blah, sometimes painful. The one truth is that it generally gets better with someone you have a long-term, loving, trusting relationship with. He learns your body, what you like, and takes the time to make sure it’s good for you. That’s not to say that there aren’t jerk husbands or one-night stands who really want you to enjoy it, but the general trend is not in that direction.

          You don’t need bunches of men to be okay with this; you just need to find a man who is okay with it.

   11. I feel the same way!

       I’m happy with my life as it is, but I don’t want to wake up single at 35 with no one to hang out with because all my friends are married!

       I’m very fulfilled without a partner, and many of my friends are also single so for my current stage of life I’m totally fine being single. I’m invested in my career, I’ll hopefully be starting grad school in the next year or two, I have a good social life, I have hobbies, etc. I also have zero interest in apps. If I met someone naturally I think I’d maybe be into the idea, but pursing apps/websites is not at all appealing to me.

       But, I would one day like to have kids. I would like to be married for a few years before I have kids.

       1. I went to a very small grad school program with few single guys. This is definitely a great place for you to meet a smart guy (the admissions department already screened him for you!). I hate saying you should go to grad school with the mentality that you need to snag a husband there but it really is a great opportunity to get to know men without the pressure of dating.

   12. A couple of thoughts from someone about a decade older than you:

       I wish I appreciated how much a good relationship can help one’s career. My husband’s daily love and support helps me to work hard, and my career has another meaning now: it provides more money for our household. What I do at work matters to both of us.

       I assume you want to be a two-career couple. I’m going to explain this badly, but I think there are some advantages to meeting that person when you’re both younger, because you can better structure your careers to mesh with the other person’s needs. If you meet an academic who gets a job in Oregon, life might be hard if you had already established a career in, say, oil and natural gas law at a large law firm, or if you chose to go the academic route and your only job offer is in Georgia. The only way to manage two inflexible careers is to be lucky enough that they can both be done in the same city.

       I am NOT advocating that you put your career on the back burner because you might meet some guy; I’m saying that if you meet him sooner rather than later, you can both make those decisions earlier on in your careers so that you’re better set up to be a two-career couple.

       1. +1 to this. I didn’t know that getting into a relationship would make me happier at work, and this is one of the reasons I wish I had met someone sooner. (Although, in all honesty, I’m not sure I was ready when I was younger).

          1. I’m the Anon at 4:10 above, and I got married only recently. It’s just something I wish someone had told me when I was younger.

             Bad relationships made me miserable and spilled over into school and work. If I had known this was a “bad relationship” thing and not a “relationship” thing, my life would have been easier.

   13. I haven’t read all the responses but I’ll throw my story in: I am 37 and single. I didn’t pay any attention at all to finding a life partner until I graduated law school at 25. Even then, I didn’t try very hard. I was also distracted by (meaning it was off and long and usually long-distance) someone who seemed great on paper, but in retrospect, there were some very large red flags that things probably weren’t ever going to go very far on the relationship front. I definitely regret that course of action. I started making more of an effort in my late 20s/early 30s, and did settle down for a few years with someone I thought I would marry (age 31 to 34, or so). Turns out he didn’t want children, probably doesn’t want to marry, and we had a handful of other issues–largely but not entirely centered around his fear of long-term commitment. I’ve since realized that I might not get to have children so that’s not as much of a deal breaker now as it was when I was 31 to 34. Marriage still might be, though not for sure. Otherwise we were pretty happy and I think there was room for compromise. Perhaps not. Since that break up, I’ve had one two-week relationship and one three-month relationship. Even a decent date is hard to come by. And I have been trying, mostly very actively, for the past 2 1/2 years. It is tough out there, especially as you get even a little bit older.

       I definitely won’t tell you to settle. But perhaps to evaluate things more with an eye towards–is this a fundamental mismatch? If not, maybe it’s worth continuing to see what develops. Love does not conquer all but it makes it worth trying very hard. That said, it has to be two-sided love! Don’t waste time on the guys who aren’t showing sufficient interest or aren’t compatible in serious ways. They burn a LOT of time. (I’m not talking about a real relationship, more like those “background” or long-distance type relationships that are off and on…I always swore to my friends that it wasn’t taking the place of something local and real, but it for sure was!)

       1. *off and on, not off and long ;)

       2. The way you said you don’t “get to” have children made me sad. Have you considered becoming a single mom by choice?

          1. Yes, to some extent. I grew up as the oldest of a large family and have never wanted to be a single parent. Perhaps because I saw how hard raising kids is even with a second parent in the picture? Honestly, I’ve more strongly considered being a foster parent than doing any sort of solo fertility treatments or intentional adoption of an infant, partly due to cost. I also had cancer in my early 20s and lots of surgery and have thus been pretty turned off by the medical intervention of fertility treatments. But just you asking that question made my stomach drop and I now have tears in my eyes…so maybe it’s time to reevaluate. Life is hard.

             1. Sorry I didn’t mean to make you cry! My best friend from high school was one of those girls who always had a boyfriend, but when she was ready for kids, she didn’t have a boyfriend. She went for it and had two bio kids and is one of the happiest people I know.

             2. Oh, no, no apologies needed at all. Just gave me an interesting insight into how I feel about it. Your comment was phrased very kindly and since you are an internet stranger I don’t take any judgement from it about anything else related to me!

   14. I’m almost 30 and the responses to this thread are kicking my anxiety into high gear. I’ve been trying to find a guy since literally college and it hasn’t happened. So HOW on earth am I supposed to magically find one in ~2 years…?!

       UGHHHHHH

       1. You need a lot of luck. And it might happen when you’re older! (Like 34-35 instead of 28-29). That’s okay, too. Life has seasons.

       2. I agree with January. It is tough, but NOT impossible. You may have to compromise a little in some ways, including s-xual to get a guy initially interested enough to stay. Then you can wow him with your mind, and he will be hooked. Grandma Leyeh did this over 50 years ago and she still tells me I can do it at age 38, even tho I used to be much prettier, so I will! YAY!!!!

   15. This post is giving me so much anxiety. I posted last week about how I caught my boyfriend cheating on me and now I’m single at 27. I’m so afraid I’ll never find anyone with all these posts. I know I’m just more sensitive to this issue right now but I’m kind of freaking out.

       1. +1 I have felt this way quite a few times on here. Maybe take some time away from the blog? Thats the only thing that helped me

       2. This board is a very small sample size. Anecdata: I am 39 and all of my friends have found either their first or second spouse (several with kids now or on their way) in their 30s. The ones who got married in their late 20s are now divorced and remarried. In my nondescript small “city” on the east coast, people are finding partners so it’s not impossible.

       3. Nobody is saying that you can’t find a partner at 27 or even (much) later. They’re saying that if you’re 27, want to get married and have kids and are generally happy and settled in life, you should be putting yourself out there and looking for a partner, because why not? Obviously your situation is different and you need to take some time to heal before you get back into dating.

       4. KP, your boyfriend is a jerk. Not all men are jerks. You will find some one that respects you and won’t cheat on you. Relax for now, read Marie Claire and you will find your man. I am in your shoes and am pulling for you, as is the rest of the HIVE!

   16. If you want to get married and have children, I think it’s smart to set that as a goal and pursue it actively, just as you would with any other goal. If you just sort of vaguely think, “Hm, I’d like to go to grad school someday” but don’t actually research schools, put together your resume, and apply, you’ll never go. If you think, “Hm, I’d like to get fit someday,” but don’t actually join a gym, lift weights, and track your progress, it won’t happen. I largely think it’s the same with dating. If you’re not out there looking to find someone, it won’t happen. And yes, your 20s will be gone much faster than you think, and, more importantly, the scores of single late 20s and early 30s guys you’re dating will quickly be getting married over the next five years. Maybe this is an offensive to some, but I’ll also say that your SMV will never be higher than it is now — leverage that into a wonderful relationship by seeking it out. Good luck!

       1. ” but I’ll also say that your SMV will never be higher than it is now — leverage that into a wonderful relationship by seeking it out.”

          There is no “wonderful relationship” to be had with a man who is only attracted to hot young things.

          A marriage is for life, which means finding a man who is fundamentally at peace with you aging, your body changing from kids, illness wrecking havoc, etc. I’m in my late 30s, newly pregnant, and it is such a joy when my husband says that I will always be sexy to him because I’m me.

          There are plenty of good reasons to find someone when younger, but it’s not so that you can have an easier time snagging a shallow guy who likes ’em young.

          1. Yes but it’s easier to find a lot of dates at that age to try to find the good ones. I’m not the person you’re responding to by the way.

          2. I mean, attraction plays a part in developing a relationship, for both parties. Looking at dating seriously when you’re at your most attractive makes sense. It doesn’t mean that any man who is attracted to you is some jerk, or that he would never find you attractive at an older age.

             Did you meet your husband when you were in your 20s? Is he a looks-obsessed, shallow bozo because he was dating a 20something woman? Obviously, partners can grow and age together. That’s wonderful that your husband finds your late 30s pregnant self attractive — as well he should! — but surely you must acknowledge that if you were in your late 30s and pregnant when you met him, the love that underlies his attraction would not have been there and things might have developed differently.

             1. I met him a month before my 36th birthday on a blind date – he wasn’t entirely sure what I looked like.

                So maaaaybe don’t get so smug about your backwards ideas, darling face.

             2. I don’t know why you’re being so defensive and rude. I don’t like talking about women like commodities but there is definitely truth to the idea that your “market value” declines as you age.
                Congrats on finding a man who doesn’t care what you look like, I guess, but 99.9% of people – men and women – think physical attraction is important in a relationship. Once you already love someone it’s much easier to maintain that attraction as they age and not be bothered by things like wrinkled and excess weight than it would be if you just met the older version of them for the first time.

             3. People are rejecting the idea of SMV (definite truth? really?) and yes, you are treating women like commodities even if you claim you don’t like doing it. Don’t do something noxious and then blame other people for “being defensive and rude.”

             4. Thank you, anon at 9:04!

                The concept of SMV is gross and deserves pushback. You can say that physical attraction is important without thinking that SMV is a way to assess people, because normal people just want someone “attractive enough.”

          3. I don’t know. I agree with you that there’s much more to marriage than sexual passion and you shouldn’t marry someone who just sees you as a hot young thing. But most people want to date and marry people they’re attracted to, and the reality is that you’re not going to get more attractive as you age, only less attractive. And I don’t mean that in the physical sense only. I know plenty of women and men who don’t want to date a divorced person who already has kids with someone else. It doesn’t mean anyone involved is a bad person or has done anything wrong, but it does reduce the options available to the divorcé, as compared to the options they would have had at a younger age before they got married and had kids. I think generally we all have declining SMV over time – although I agree it’s kind of a gross term.

             1. For reference, I said “There are plenty of good reasons to find someone when younger[….]”

                Is that a hard concept?

       2. The phrase SMV grosses me out so much. 99% of the time I’ve seen it used it’s used by people who also think that men age like wine and women like milk, and that women hit “The Wall” at 30. Just noxious. Honestly I’m sure I was hotter when I was 24 than I am now (32). But I was an absolute mess emotionally and my interpersonal skills are wayyyyyyyyyyy better now. But according to SMV “theory” I’m a less attractive partner now. Ha.

   17. So my story is a little different, I didn’t want kids so I just dated people I looked through my 20s-30s, but I wasn’t that concerned about finding a life partner. I got very lucky and met my husband in my 40s. At that point I was “over” having boyfriends who weren’t going to be there for the long haul and I was looking for something serious. Both my husband and I would probably have been called “single for a reason” by people here, but we work together. I think dating at any age is a numbers game and when you’re younger more tied to how traditional you are. If you want kids and you’re in you’re 20s, that is the best time to be actively dating. If you don’t, I’d stress less about it.

   18. I think you’re spot on that most people in DC tend to get married in their 30s, and it’s also true that there are waaaay more great single women in DC than there are (decent) single men.

       I really don’t have anything constructive to add, just that I commiserate with you. Part of me wishes I had left the not-going anywhere relationship at 28 but I’m now 31 and really aware that I’m left with slim pickings. In retrospect, maybe it’s because I didn’t really know what I wanted at 27. But I think if you know what you want, then maybe be more mindful about it? I know this is such trite advice, but maybe set an intention to find what you want in a partner (I think being picky is a good thing here!) and maybe try dating again more mindfully and effort?

   19. The best advice I have to give you is “work backwards.” When you do you see yourself having kids, if you want them at all? How many do you want? How far apart would you like to have them? How long do you want to date someone before you get married? How long do you want to be married before you start having kids? How long do you want your engagement to be? And so on. That should help you work backwards to figure out when you should start dating seriously. Obviously some things in your timeline might not work out or might change but that’s also ok.

       For me, I knew I wanted 2 kids by 35. I also wanted to be married for a few years before having kids. So that realistically meant I would have to start trying to have kids around 30, which meant getting married by 27, which meant getting engaged by 26. So I started dating seriously in college/my early 20s and got married at 27.

       My timeline then changed – I realized I would not mind only having one kid, or having a second kid a little later on in my 30s, and I got a super intense job I loved, so I put off trying to have kids until I turned 32, and I’m trying now. Who knows what the future holds, obviously, but I’m fine with the risk/benefit trade off of making that decision

       I personally find this to be a helpful framework for these types of decisions (it’s more about what I want than what my peers are doing).

   20. I don’t date. I’m 26. I’m somewhere on the asexual spectrum but do develop feelings for people after I know them and could see myself being romantically involved with someone I fell for. Demisexual or demiromantic, probably.

       So, dating using apps is very close to my idea of hell. I’ve been on maybe six dates in my life from apps. They were miserable. I’ve kissed once and it was forced and against my will. Never slept with anyone. I do feel anxiety because I want to get married and adopt kids (because of medical issues around having kids) but right now it’s not important to me. I make friends with guys and eventually I assume someone will have shared feelings. Hasn’t happened yet, but I haven’t been focusing on making guy friends. Just, making friends and some are guys. This kind of thread makes me very anxious but….just not a thing I’m interested in.

       Anon for this to the extreme.

2. I just found out that my ex-husband’s mom died. I am shaken and wondering if the hive has advice on how to grieve.

   We have not spoken in over a decade. I left her son because I feared for my safety. There was a dramatic fight that escalated and I knew thereafter I could never feel safe sleeping under the same roof as my H. But I would bet a large sum of money that he told his family I just decided to leave, wanted to experience other men, etc. I never reached out to her because (1) I did not want my H to come after me in retaliation, and (2) it did not seem right for me to share something ugly about my H with his family, whose support he would need to get past our divorce.

   My ex-MIL was such a lovely woman. She treated me like her own daughter for over a decade. I know that part of my grief is related to my own idea of what she thought of me to her untimely end.

   Advice appreciated.

   1. Hugs, first of all. Lots of them. I’m so sorry for your loss and the tricky emotional landscape you’re in.

      I think I sort of know what you’re feeling here? I had a mentor (a professor sort of role in my life) whose wife was very much like a grandmother to me. When he made sexual advances to me, I never spoke to either of them again, and I always felt really bad for just disappearing from her life without any explanation (she didn’t do anything wrong! and she loved me very much), and sad about what he might have said to her to explain it all. Abusive people hurt so many more than what’s obvious. Anyway, more hugs and please take care of yourself as you grieve.

   2. Take your time. It’s a big hard thing. Carve out some time for a private goodbye ritual. Accept that it will be very hard. And then less hard.

   3. I’m so so sorry about this. My ex H wasn’t abusive, but we had a similarly abrupt split due to his bad behavior, and I purposely avoided reaching out to his family. His father passed away late last year, and I hadn’t even heard he was sick. It was surprisingly hard for me, because I was sad a special person was gone, but also because it brought up my feelings about a whole branch of my family being kind of taken from me (when he left me and I felt I had to abruptly cut off everything with his family, who had also been my family for over a decade).

      Don’t do this if you feel unsafe, but I sent a plant to the funeral home and then set aside time for quiet remembrance and contemplation on the day of the funeral (I didn’t attend— just did this after work by myself). It was a good ritual for me, and I was glad I at least remembered him in my own way. I looked at some old pictures and remembered some funny stories involving him. Several weeks later, I ended up writing a card to my former mother in law as well to express condolences.

      Your grief is real, and it’s really hard feeling like you have to go through it alone. I hope you have some good friends or a therapist you can share with as well. Hugs from this internet stranger.

   4. She knew you while you were together so I think it’s highly unlikely she thought badly of you when you left. Even if she did, that doesn’t mean you should have done anything differently.

      Maybe make an anonymous donation to a cause she loved to pay forward the love she gave you?

3. These also look exactly like some from 1.STATE that I own in multiple colors and love.

4. Question– I am going to a Yoga/Meditation CLE. The description says to wear “comfortable clothes.” I normally workout in leggings, and if this was strictly yoga (and I thought this skewed young) I would also wear leggings. However, the CLE is all day with like 30 minutes of yoga. I am also thinking this skews a bit older and is probably not all women. What would you wear to this? I was initially thinking some type of jogger pant, but everything I’ve tried on gives me camel toe. (I’m petite but have hips.)

   1. Have any of those old/classic wider leg yoga pants? This would seem to be perfect for the occasion. Pair with a slightly longer than normal top, if you’re concerned about the rear view.

   2. I’d maybe wear workout leggings and top under a comfortable dress, and just take the dress off for the yoga portion of the day?

   3. I’d wear leggings and a tunic.

   4. Do you have any comfy ponte knit pants? Or today I’m wearing my Eileen Fisher slim crepe ankle pants and I feel like I could sit on the ground and move around a bit pretty well in these.

      1. +1 I would wear these too.

         And in fact that’s why I wear them. I could do yoga in them at any moment. Not that I would, but I could.

5. Petite ladies, what maxi dresses do you like for the summer? I’m 5’1, and it hasn’t been easy to find a maxi dress that doesn’t require quite a bit of hemming. Maybe I’m just looking in the wrong place…

   1. Even petite maxidresses will be a smidge too long at 5’1 (much of petite is made based on a 5’2 to 5’4 frame model) so I’d get used to shopping petite maxidresses on sale (I’m not particular so I go to Ross, TJ Maxx, or shop Nordstrom Rack sales) and mentally add twenty bucks or so to get it hemmed to the price when I buy – if it’s a fairly simple dress even a dry cleaner can do the basic tailoring of cutting the hem.

      1. I figured as much. Thanks :)

   2. I’m almost 5’2″ and have to get any maxi dress hemmed. But I have bought a couple midi-length flowy dresses and they fit like maxi dresses on me, so I let them be maxis.

   3. I’m 5’0″ and the petite maxi dresses from Lands End fit me without alterations.

   4. Have you tried ASOS? They have a ton of maxi dresses in petite sizes

   5. I’ve found a bunch at Gap.

   6. It’s worth trying the midis at Petite Studio NYC. One of rhem was a maxi on my 5’1″ friend.

6. I’m going to be applying to an assistant general counsel position for a decent sized university. I’m connected with the person that left the position and will be asking her some questions specific to the role. For those of you in the hiring position for such a role, could you give me any feedback on what you look for in a candidate or things you would like to see mentioned in a cover letter?

7. Sorry for the ignorant question: does the phrase “single mom” encompass only those moms whose partner is out of the picture? Or could it refer to, for example, a divorced mom with joint custody? Honestly just curious because I think I’ve been saying it wrong. Thanks!

   1. My whole life I was taught that if you’re single and a parent who is actively involved in your child’s life, you’re a single parent. So all the divorced moms with 50-50 custody or whose ex-husbands have the kids every other weekend are single moms. And that’s how all my friends and the media seem to use it (just g00gle “celebrity single moms” for lots of lists of famous divorced women who are co-parenting amicably, eg Jenna Dewan). Apparently some moms without a co-parent take offense to it and think it should only apply to moms when the dad isn’t in the picture (there was a big tussle about it on the moms page a while back). I’ve always understood it to be just a reference to your parental (mom) and relationship (single) status and don’t see why it implies the other parent isn’t in the picture.

      1. Interesting — is there a link to the dust-up on the moms page?

      2. Where is the “actively involved in your child’s life” line drawn? If a guy has his kids every other weekend or for a few weeks in the summer, does that make him a single dad?

         1. I think so. I wouldn’t say someone wasn’t a single dad unless they didn’t see their kids regularly, like Tom Cruise has reportedly not seen Suri in years and presumably isn’t involved in parenting decisions so I would say he’s not actively involved. But I know a lot of every-other-weekend dads who are still active fathers.

      3. +1

   2. I’d assume it was a mom whose partner wasn’t in the picture. I would not really consider a divorced mom with joint custody “single mom” in the same sense, but wouldn’t be offended if she referred to herself that way to communicate she’s unmarried/available. In the same vein, I know that military spouses aren’t “single parents” during deployment, but I know my church does extra effort to include them in single-parent benefits and programs.

      1. I don’t know that many ex-couples who split time 50-50. But even so, I am married and have a spouse at home 99% of the time (so one of us can run to the store, take a call, go to the gym, go running, stay home if one kid is sick and one has swim practice). For the divorced parents I know, there is a lot of extra juggle b/c they often have something like 80% of the time solo with the kids and the other 20% can be unreliable / hostile.

         I think it’s a giant umbrella for people not like me. My sister is divorced with a hostile spouse and a lot of divorced friends who find that if their ex has kids with another person (and THAT kid is sick, has a stomach bug, etc.) then the schedule rockiness hits them hard. And sometimes an involved parent relocates (or even moves to the far side of a common city — Reston and Greenbelt, such that visits move to weekends and you solo parent during the week a lot.

         Parenting without an in-house partner is just much harder, even if all parties are amicable and want to be involved.

         And, sadly, I am only in my 40s but know a bunch of widows who are single parents or were until they remarried.

   3. A woman who is both single and a mother is a single mom.

   4. I’ve always taken it to mean a parent who not in a relationship. So, if you have 50-50 custody, or if your ex has primary custody and you only have ghf kids Wednesday’s and weekends, or if your ex is 100% out of the picture, or if you’re a widow, whatever you’re a single mom.

      Sure, some situations are harder than others, but they’re all hard :)

   5. Both. In my mind, it refers to a woman who is single (i.e. unpartnered) and a mother, regardless of whether dad is in the picture or how much custody mom has.

      The trickier thing for me is when friends refer to themselves as a “single mom” even when they’re in a serious relationship/living with a guy who is not the child’s father. She can of course call herself whatever she wants, but it really makes me side eye her BF if she still feels like she’s on her own.

   6. My parents divorced, and my mom had sole custody. My dad is a deadbead. Yet, my mom gets offended if you call her a “single mom”. She prefers a “divorced mom”. Ummm….ok? I always thought of her as a single mom growing up. She never dated or remarried.

      1. My mom was widowed at 40 and didn’t like the term “single mom” either when we were growing up because it was more commonly used for divorced moms or moms whose partners were never in the picture. Now she is more proud of the term I think because she feels that raised us extremely successfully and also because we are grown and she’s more grandma now and less mom, but still refers to herself as “widowed” or “I raised these kids by myself.” :)

   7. I am divorced and have my two young children 94% of the time, and I call myself a single-mother. My dad died on active duty when I was a child, and I was raised by my mom (also in the military) who never remarried. She was a single mother who has referred to me now as a single mother, so I’m good with the label.

   8. I always thought it really mean a person who was a parent alone, i.e. they were the only parent in their kid’s life. But I think it is used by the media to mean any person who is single and a parent.

      In real life, I haven’t heard it used that way. Growing up, a divorced parent who had primarily custody (e.g., dad had the kids every other weekend) would often be called a single mom. But I don’t know any people who are divorced with an equal co-parent who has 50-50 custody that call themselves a single mom, and I would think it was a little odd.

      1. I don’t get that. What would one who is both single and a mom refer to herself as if she has a 50/50 custody? She’s still single and still a mom…

         1. I can’t think of any questions calling for that answer unless it was about childcare/family arrangements, in which case I’ve heard the phase “I co-parent with my ex” or “divorced mom.” Like Why does anyone need to know, unless your child arrangements actually matter in which case single mom seems to be not specific enough if you have a 50-50 arrangement with your ex

            1. This is such an odd answer. And doesn’t address why it’s wrong for a woman who is single and a mom to describe herself as a single mom. As to your question I’m a single mom is a perfectly reasonable response to the very normal questions of are you married or do you have children. There are plenty of things that people don’t need to know. That doesn’t mean people aren’t allowed to talk about them.

               If moms where there’s no dad in the picture want to emphasize that they can certainly use extra words to describe that but you don’t get to redefine the English language because you want to emphasize that no one is co-parenting with you. If you say you’re a single mom I just assume that means you have kids and aren’t married. That’s how every mom I know who isn’t married refers to herself regardless of the involvement/lack thereof of a coparent.

               I’m neither single nor a mother so really do not have a dog in this fight. This whole conversation is very odd to me.

            2. Maybe this is a regional difference. I don’t know anyone who would answer the question of do you have kids with anything other than yes or a description of the number and ages of the kids.

         2. Depends on interpretation of single. Yes, she’s single bc not partnered. But she’s not the “single” parent in the child’s life, she has a co-parent. 50/50 coparenting is hard. But there’s a special difficulty to being a sole parent.

            1. Single parent and sole parent are very different terms to me. Single parent is a parent w/o a spouse, sole parent is their child’s only parent. That’s just the literal interpretation of the English words.

            2. I don’t think anyone is disagreeing with that but does an exclusive right to use the phrase single mom make it any easier?

               If unmarried moms aren’t supposed to say “single mom” and instead include a long description of their co-parenting arrangement, why can’t a mom with no dad/partner in the picture just do that to explain their situation?

               Ignoring the debate of who had it harder, why can’t women use whatever words they want to describe themselves?

8. DH’s birthday is today, I’m 8 months pregnant, and I did not execute my well-laid plans to bake a Victoria sponge cake yesterday. However, I have fresh cream to whip and tons of amazing farmer’s market strawberries we need to consume ASAP. What can I pick up on my lunch break to pair with this?

   Have access to a Safeway and a Trader Joe’s, unfortunately no Whole Foods or Costco close enough. I’m thinking dark chocolate / flourless chocolate cake or brownies and/or simple fresh sponge cake of some sort if available? Thoughts/advice? (BTW, doing this because the whole family hates frosting, so we’re looking for non-frosted cake options!).

   1. Pound cake! I believe they have it at Safeway in the bakery section, but I’d call ahead before driving.
      A family friend always brings a pre-made pound cake with local strawberries & whipped cream- its a divine combo.

   2. Angel food cake! pile whip cream and strawberries on top. Or a meringue nest.

   3. An angel food cake.

   4. The Trader Joe’s Kentucky Bourbon Cake is amazing.

   5. My daughter is 18 and will still tell you her favorite birthday cake ever was a store-bought angel food cake that my good friend topped with freshly whipped cream and pressed halved strawberries into it. If i recall correctly she also halved the cake horizontally and did a layer of whipped cream and strawberries like you would a layer cake. She put a few flowers from the garden on the plate around the cake. My daughter was probably 4-5 years old at the time and still remembers it, so I hope that is a strong enough recommendation.

9. So this falls into the category of a problem I am “lucky” to have, but can I please get some tips on how to look older? Today, our summer clerk at my firm (college student) asked me if I also go to [local university]. Last week, my boss tried to nominate me for some under-30 award for lawyers. I guess I feel flattered, but I’m 42 years old and am of counsel at my firm. I am often mistaken for an intern, etc. when I am the lead attorney present for a hearing, depo, etc. It is frustrating.

   At work, I try to dress to look older and wear classics – a lot of Boss, Theory, MaxMara. A lot of tweed blazers, silk blouses, shift dresses, and shoes like Varas. I also wear a good bit of makeup and style it to try to make me look older. I have a professional hair cut – a pixie cut much like that of Robyn Wright in House of Cards. What’s working “against” me is that I’m very petite (<5' and <100 lbs) and I've taken sunscreen, moisturizer, exercise, hydration, and sleep very seriously.

   1. Say what now? Your boss, who presumably hired you, wanted to nominate you for an “under 30” award? He or she thought you had graduated law school within the past few years? If your boss thinks your performance is on par with a really promising 29-year-old, then it’s probably not your appearance that makes you seem young.

      I don’t usually agree when people call posts here fake but this is so weird and humblebraggy that I can’t imagine it’s real.

      1. This strikes me as really harsh. Not everyone graduates from law school at 24-25. Isn’t it possibly she graduated in her mid-30s and so might be 30ish if she’d gone straight through? It sounded like the boss was like “Hey, are you under 30? I’d like to nominate you for this award.” Jumping straight from that fairy innocent question to performance problems just seems like a really huge leap to me.

         1. Apologies to OP, I was unduly harsh in my response. Thank you for your perspective.

   2. Not much advice but I just wanted to say that I don’t lean the direction of AnonZ. I think older people (not just men) have strange ideas of what “under-30” or “young lawyer” means and that, especially when it comes to women who are young compared to them (i.e., not 65) they lose track of how “young” someone is. My mom called her kids “teenagers” when they were ages 16 to 28. Yes, she had one teenager, but the rest of us (there are five total) were in our 20s.

      You might try working with a stylist and I’d also try to get a fair read on what your posture looks like, and how you come across vocally.

      1. I agree my boss didn’t sit and do the math. I have an advanced degree other than a JD and have been practicing for about 10 years (and have the title of counsel, which he decided I should have when I came in). He just didn’t think.

         I’ve worked with a stylist at both Nordstrom and Saks, and if anything I feel like I dress in old lady clothes. Any suggestions of another place to find a stylist? I feel my posture is good, and I am a strong public speaker, but where could I get a fair read on those things as you suggest?

         I obviously also don’t agree with AnonZ and even based on Internet standards was surprised at that response. I guess I shouldn’t be given how brutal posters can be to each other here. But I’d be let go if my performance were as bad as she implies, particularly at a firm like mine (small, all contingency) that can’t afford to just keep people on for the heck of it.

         1. I went to law school at 19 (long story) and was 22 when I graduated. With the result that I am seven years out, 4’11, and petite, and look way less experienced than I am. I’m sure you are a great performer; some people are just awful at judging age, esp. if you are petite. Here are my tips for not getting mistaken for the intern/less experienced attorney. Not saying it is a good thing that some of these work, or that these will work for you, but here is what works for me.
            1. Introduce yourself early and often (in depos, to opposing counsel before a hearing while waiting around) and be assertive enough that it is clear you are running the thing, and are not the intern. Sometimes nothing you can do if they make snap judgments based on appearance, but you can correct them fast.
            2. Heels. Pointed toe, 3 inches, higher the better, sleek. Try the sam edleman hazel. The vara is, to be blunt, going to read old (which strangely has the effect on petites of making us look younger). Not sure if it will help, but I find I am not usually mistaken for an intern when wearing them.
            3. Separates, not suits. Can you do dresses/pants and blazers? The uniform sheath dress-coordinating jacket, for whatever reason, reads older/more experienced than perfectly matching suit.
            4. Fit. Does everything fit, perfectly? Do skirts/pants fall where they should, not too long? If not, tailor. Esp. for hugo boss, where the dresses run way long even in petite, tailoring is necessary. Clothes that look too ‘old’ and are not fitted, esp. tweed, can make you look really young.
            5. Consider breaking away from Nordstrom (which sometimes isn’t so up on current trends for professional firms) and check out MM Lafleur, Of Mercer, Hobbs, or the like. To me, these brands do a good job putting out pieces that make you look competent/in charge, if that makes any sense.

10. I actually am wearing these shoes today! I can’t speak to the difference in quality as compared to the Zala pump, but I’ve been pleased with the quality of these. And they’re quite comfortable.

11. These shoes keep popping up on my feed: https://shop.nordstrom.com/s/jeffrey-campbell-hysteria-mary-jane-pump-women/5193650?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FBrands%2FJeffrey%20Campbell&color=reflective%20multi
    Awesome or crazy?

    1. I love the heel, hate the harness.

       1. The part at the back is what keeps getting to me. More like an athletic shoe?

    2. So, I love those. But, I won these, so ymmv:

       https://www.brownsshoes.com/VALENSIA-JH/244102,default,pd.html?dwvar_244102_color=015&cgid=1102#prefn1=siteAssignment-text&prefv1=brown&prefn2=siteAssignment-text&prefv2=brown&refinement=true&scrollTo=2&cgid=1&start=2

       1. Own, not won. I own these.

       2. I LOVE those!! I have these: https://www.mercari.com/us/item/m77741200978/?gclsrc=aw.ds&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=1732195855&utm_content=t0&adgroup=67548994013&network=s&device=c&merchant_id=130523956&product_id=m77741200978&product_id=297509345490&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrdjnBRDXARIsAEcE5YnevG_tUxx4LLXa0zqozASX1k_EF4jOcaFjqgYOnLReS_t80mc_454aApwTEALw_wcB
          and they are HOT.

          1. OMG – I need to buy these right now.

             1. Other than my Jason Wu t-straps, they may be the hottest shoes I own.

    3. Cray!

12. Best drugstore makeup remover (that will work with heavy eye makeup)?

    Tried Pond’s cold cream but it’s not cutting it with the eye makeup, unfortunately. I’d like to get one product I can use on eyes and rest of face. TIA!

    1. Misceller (sp?) wipes have worked well for my beloved mascara.

       1. Micellar. Garnier has micellar eye makeup wipes, but I also just like their micellar wipes or cleaner.

    2. Neutrogena makeup removing wipes.

    3. I’ve been using Marcelle micellar water and it works decently on my Benefit “They’re Real” waterproof mascara..but still desperately miss my old Garnier Fresh Oil-Free Makeup Remover. It appears a lot of brands cut some of their product lines to bring in the micellar stuff, and my favourite was one of them :(

    4. Get an oil cleanser, (drugstore – Burt’s Bees, Simple; my preference is slightly higher end – DHC, Jordan Samuel, L’Occitane). Get that all over your dry face for a minute, rinse, and follow up with gentle water-based cleanser (drugstore – CeraVe, higher end – Jordan Samuel matinee, Dr. Perricone nutritive cleanser, Kate Somerville goat milk cleanser).

       Micellar water still needs to be rinsed off (no matter how much these brands tell you it doesn’t), and wipes are a horror for the environment and also mostly water-based so won’t really break down the last bits of makeup.

       1. This. Makeup wipes don’t do a great job of removing makeup in general. Oil-based cleansers are the way to go!

13. Help wise TV lovers! I haven‘t had a TV in over 20 yrs and so much has changed.

    My dad needs a nice TV to cheer him up in his new assisted living apartment.
    Reading can be hard on his one good eye, so the TV is important for him…I don‘t want to blow it!

    I have ˋRiver Prime‘ ;) and I really don‘t have time to go to a big box as I am teaching summer semester at my uni.

    So what kind of reasonably sized TV do you all have and love?

    Thank you, this community is great!

    1. I just bought flat-screen TVs after having the older type (I know, welcome to 2007) and really – they are so cheap these days, it’s not worth worrying about. Just go to Best Buy, or order online. I was amazed how inexpensive they were – I was working off older price points in my head.

14. Help wise TV lovers! I haven‘t had a TV in over 20 yrs and so much has changed.

    My dad needs a nice TV to cheer him up in his new assisted living apartment.
    Reading can be hard on his one good eye, so the TV is important for him…I don‘t want to blow it!

    I have ˋRiver Prime‘ ;) and I really don‘t have time to go to a big box as I am teaching summer semester at my uni.

    So what kind of reasonably sized TV do you all have and love?

    Thank you, this community is great!

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