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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
In my seemingly endless quest for perfect work tops, I have a few conditions: 1) long sleeves, with a strong preference for bracelet-length, because otherwise I end up getting them in wet ink and highlighter as I’m marking up documents; 2) a print that’s interesting, but not distracting; 3) colors that coordinate with at least 50% of the blazers/sweaters in my closet; and 4) fabric that is machine-washable and not prone to wrinkles.
This flowered top from Ann Taylor fits my admittedly lengthy list of criteria! I usually wait for sales at Ann Taylor, but I’m seriously considering snapping it up before it disappears in my size.
The top is $69.50 and comes in sizes XXS–XXL.
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
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- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Anonymous
All of a sudden my personal email account is getting bombarded with spam. Has this happened to anyone before? Do I just ride it out or am I going to need to switch over to a new email address?
Anon
Most email systems now are pretty responsive/adaptive and once you move a few to the spam folder, it’ll take care of it for you. I’d just ride it out if it’s an email address you’ve had for a while.
Cc
How bombarded? Like gradual increase or like all of a sudden you have a crazy amount? If the latter this is an email attack – it happened to me. Someone is trying to hide an email. In my case it was an email from apple confirming the fraudulent purchase of an iPhone. I luckily saw it as thousands and thousands of emails starting pouring in. It was awful to deal with – but I sent them to junk mail en masse ans tried to unsubscribe to as many as I could. To be honest my email still hasn’t recovered though. It was way worse than dealing with the apple purchase! But make sure you check your credit cards for any purchases
DCJ
This is exactly what happened to my husband earlier this month. Hundreds of spam emails all of a sudden; buried in the middle was an email from Walmart (also) confirming purchase of a pre-paid iphone, set for pickup at a store about an hour away from us. Do check carefully; for my husband, the spam started flowing in 15-20 minutes before the email confirming the fraudulent purchase.
SweatyAnon
Morning Poll: What deodorant/anti-perspirant is everyone wearing these days? I recently visited that aisle and I feel like there are many new advancements that I had no idea about and became overwhelmed and just got what I have been using since I was 13. What are you currently using?
London (formerly NY) CPA
I was recently forced to switch as they don’t sell my old favorite in the UK. I’m liking my current regime of Perspirex roll-on in the evening and Dove aerosol spray in the mornings, possibly even better than my old favorite (Secret gel).
Woods-comma-Elle
I am in London and whenever I go to the US or Canada I bring back like ten packs of Secret gel which is just The Best.
PolyD
Degree Motion Sense in Shower Clean.
Something I read recently, is that a deodorant/antiperspirant can stop working because of build-up of both the product and dead skin cells in your armpits. I have a scrubbing mitt thingy for exfoliating and I use it on my pits every other day or so. It seems to help, I feel a little less stinky this summer.
I’ve also been using Certain Dri for several years. I only use it at night and only every couple of days. Don’t use on freshly shaved skin and it can itch – to help with the itching, I let it dry for a minute or two, and then I put on a swipe of regular deodorant. And I put on an old t-shirt so I have fabric on my skin instead of skin on skin.
AnonATL
This is my exact routine. Typically I only use the certain dri if I’m doing something fancy (aka not wfh in a tshirt).
Motion sense also makes one that isn’t supposed to show on dark clothes, but that’s malarkey.
Anonymous
Unlike you, I have great results with the LBD version of Degree.
Anonymous
Secret Clinical Strength Soft Solid
Anon
Last year I tried a bunch of the new ones. Good thing we were social distancing, since I was really not impressed. I’m back to men’s unscented Mitchum gel formula.
Anonymous
Interesting! How do you use this one? Night or morning? I bought it on a recommendation in a try everything mode, and it does nothing for me in terms of sweat. (And stains my blacks terribly, but that’s all of them…) I want it to work!
Anonymous
I really like the Dove aerosol – it dries so fast, I don’t think I can ever go back to gel.
Anon
Donna Karan Cashmere Mist. It’s super pricy so I only recommend it if you are super sweaty, but for some reason it works.
I also do the Pacifica charcoal scrub in between.
Anon
I use Habitat natural deodorant. It keeps me from smelling, but not from sweating, so if you’re a particularly sweaty gal I wouldn’t recommend it. I like it, though–the fragrances are lovely and subtle.
Anon
I have switched over to Lume, as has my husband. Seriously does prevent odors for days, just like they claim (not an antiperspirant though, which took getting used to). On the very sweatiest of days, I sometimes still use the Degree Motion Sense under my arms, but not often.
Anonymous
+1 Lume is amazing!
Anon
+2. I recently switched from Native and there is a world of difference.
Anon
Secret Clinical
Anon
Tom’s of Maine. I always use a deodorant without antiperspirant. Antiperspirant just makes me sweat more.
Anon
I posted yesterday for advice about my high cholesterol — thank you!
I think it’s a good idea for me to write down what I eat. I’m by nature an analog person and my inclination is a notebook, but is there any significant benefit to using an app? I’m not trying to count calories or lose weight, but I’ve never used one of these apps before so I’m not sure if there’s some benefit I don’t know about. If you recommend an app please tell me which one you like. Thank you!
Anonymous
I use the Weight Watchers app for maintenance. You can set it to loss or maintenance.
I think you said you are already slim so I would focus on exercise over diet at this stage. WW app lets you track exercise and has a lot of workout videos for various levels as well.
Anon
I don’t know any apps that let me turn off the calories stuff, which drives me crazy. But I do otherwise enjoy the layout of cronometer. I only use it for a week or two at a time every few months, but I find it fascinating to witness how consistent my intakes are from day to day without any active effort or planning. It’s also easy to view one food at a time which can help lead to easy changes to habits/grocery shopping.
Anonymous
I track for calories, but one benefit of an app over paper is that something like Fitbit will automatically suggest foods as you type and you can add favorites into the database so it saves time.
Anonymous
+1 – I have used My fitness pal in the past, and it saves everything, so it is very quick if you tend to eat the same foods a lot.
Anonymous
I use My FitnessPal when I want to track a particular nutrient, like sodium, and to calculate the nutritional value of recipes.
Anonymous
High cholesterol at a young age can be a sign of familial hyperlipidemia. Diet will not help at all with that. You need a statin. Don’t torture yourself over your diet. I have it and my doctor tells me to eat as normal. Statins are a miracle.
Anonymous
Seconding this. No man in my husband’s family had lived out of his 50s, so my husband has been on them starting in his 20s. Also, for women, after menopause, your cholesterol may really shoot up, so our risk for heart disease equals that of men for probably half of our lives.
Anon
Another here with FH – people in my family either live to 90 or to 60. My kids have it too and started on a statin at age 8 – the good news is that kids who start treatment early have a full life expectancy. So if you think this is even a remote possibility, get yourself and all your family members tested so you can be treated appropriately.
Car stuff
Make sure you don’t eat a pint of Haagen-Daas ice cream, or similar, the night before your fasting cholesterol test. Ask me how I know.
The test can be incredibly responsive to recently eaten foods, so be careful you aren’t eating outside of your norm the night before it.
Anon
Or deep dish pizza. Ask me how I know ;)
Anonymous
I also prefer writing things down on paper, it helps me process and retain information. I used the free version of my fitness pal to easily look up nutrition facts for foods (the bar code scanner is awesome), but then logged everything in a hard copy journal. Bonus that you only need to log the information that you want, so you can skip things like calories if it’s not helpful to you.
Anon
Use the notebook if that’s what feels right to you. I use a bullet journal because I’m the same way – organizational apps have never been something I will keep up with.
Anonymous
If you are a notebook person – do the notebook!
The best system is one you use, and if you enjoy notebooks and have a habit of writing in one, that’s perfect for starting a new habit of tracking. You’re building on what you already know and master, which is the best way to succed.
Cora
I was let go from my job, but it was a bad fit and I had started looking for new jobs and I have 6+ months of savings, so I’m not too cut up about it. I’ll of course be diligently looking for a new job, but I also haven’t had a break for a while. Especially since that job was getting toxic I honestly felt a little bit relieved and the having-more-free-time part has been good these past few days.
I’m single, no kids, no pets, love by myself in a large city, lots of friends and family nearby. I’ll be job searching, but also wanted to take this time to reset and recharge. I was feeling burned out anyways, and would want to get over that feeling by the time I start a new job.
Here are some things I want to do, please let me know what else to add to the list that would be restorative!
– Get enough sleep
– Exercise 5x a week
– Cook at home more often (I do like to cook, and have to be money conscious now)
– Catch up on my reading
– Complete more puzzles (quarantine hobby that I find very satisfying)
– Volunteer, in person if possible. One of the orgs I want to work with has a lot of during-the-day stuff so this will be good
– Finish cleaning up / setting up my apartment (but not spending money to do so!)
– I’d love to travel but everyone is working during the day of course. Maybe I should go on a few day trips by myself. Will have to think about this.
Anon
Don’t forget about the library! When I’m trying to watch my spending but feel the urge to shop I often head to the library.
Cora
Yep, leaning on the library a lot for the books. And I’m going to see if I can borrow puzzles from there, seems like a possibility?
pugsnbourbon
Doesn’t hurt to ask. Some libraries also let you check out day passes to museums and historical sites.
Puzzles
At my local library it is! You could also look into a puzzle exchange. My town has one at our post office. I don’t know how you’d find out about one though.
No Face
My library loans out all kinds of things. Like musical instruments, puzzles, board games, etc.
A + Fed
Weather dependent, but spend some time outside everyday, preferably in a park or other setting with nature. This may not work if it’s rainy, smokey, or crazy hot where you are.
BeenThatGuy
I find the ocean to be very restorative. I’m about an hour from the closest beach and would do lots of day trips if I was in this situation. Plus, September down the shore is perfection. No crowds and it’s still warm enough to enjoy.
Cora
You inspired me to check – the beach is actually pretty accessible to where I live now, 45 mins by public transportation! Perfect weekday day trip idea, doesn’t have to be expensive, can bring a book
No Face
That sounds like heaven!
Anonymous
I just had my position eliminated and was surprised how many interviews I’ve already had (although it’s also taking longer to get through rounds than I anticipated). Now that it looks like an offer is imminent, im kind of wishing I had enjoyed the past few weeks a bit more. That said, I’m looking forward to some long walks with Audible as my partner. I’m also giddy about purging a closet—I did one already and it feels SO GOOD. And I am running out today to pick up ingredients for a mango smoothie this afternoon. I may bake this weekend. I know you didn’t ask this, but it’s been helpful to me to know—Cobra is covered through end of September due to COVID if you weren’t already aware. Unemployment takes a couple of weeks to certify once you register. And don’t free fall too long—it’s not fun explaining a gap and the lull that comes with November will be here soon enough.
Anonymous
Paint by number
Flats Only
These sound like all the dutiful things I plan to do when I’m between jobs. Honestly, I would concentrate on sleep and exercise, and then on having fun. Once you have an offer for a new job you can use the time before you start for cleaning and chores, but take time now to enjoy yourself to the extent your budget allows, even if it means zoning out with a book or puzzle all afternoon.
Anonymous
Definitely go on some day trips by yourself. I post this every single time this question comes up, but do not spend the whole time doing chores or resting or puttering. This might be the only chance you get to do weekday day trips to uncrowded places. If you were outdoorsy, I would be looking for backpacking permits. If you are not, I would be planning a Monday for a Monday trip to a popular museum. Since you have quite a bit of time off, I suggest doing 4 to 5 mini adventures every single week. You don’t need to job search 8 hours a day.
I feel more strongly about this than ever after living through the pandemic and wildfire season in California last year. When you get an opportunity to do something special, do it. Do not stay home.
Anonymous
Do something for mindfulness, to manage the stress. Catch up on guilty pleasure TV series, you can get media from the library as well.
Coach Laura
You have exercise on the list but I’d suggest outdoor time, either walking/running on trails if you like to run, hikes/walks to pretty places or just going to a large, local park and having an impromptu picnic or sitting in the sun/shade reading a book. Being outdoors in nature is key to me – it is more restorative than almost anything else. Like you said, a day trip to a lake, river, mountain overlook, might combine the two.
Anonymous
Has anyone taken the NOLS wilderness first aid course? It looks pretty intense. Is there a lot of prep work / reading that it is good to do in advance? Or just show up (2 8-hour days) and let them teach you The Things?
I don’t strictly need to know any of this, but I read a scary article and it dawned on me that the crowd I go with into the woods is as likely to have a heart attack as it is to have an accident, and I wasn’t really prepared to do more than call 911 (and my phone battery is rotten and the large charging block weighs a ton). I did add some chewable aspirin to my gear.
WFA
I haven’t done the NOLS course, but I’ve done SOLO’s five or six times now (required for my volunteer gig). It is an intense class, especially the first time you take it. SOLO doesn’t require any prep work ahead of time, but I can’t speak to NOLS. It is very hands on. In a good class, you will spend a lot of time outside practicing various scenarios. Be prepared to touch people and to be touched, which can be a little weird at first.
You will also spend a lot of time thinking about how the environment and distances affect an accident. For example: If you are immobilized due to a broken ankle five miles from the trailhead and it is 45 degrees out, how do you deal with that since it could be hours before you will be indoors.
Anon
I took a similar WFA course in college (a long time ago now) and went in with no prep, though I’d taken the basic Red Cross first aid classes before. Those were totally useless and the wilderness class was way better, even if you’re not a hard core backpacker, since it’s actually pretty common to be in a situation where you wouldn’t be able to get someone to emergency assistance within an hour. If you do any kind of outdoor activity, I highly recommend.
Anonymous
I haven’t done it through NOLS, but I have signed up for a two day wilderness first aid class with REI in December that I hope I can go forward with. I had wanted to take it before a 10 rafting day trip off the grid, but didn’t get to it in time. My focus now is on learning basic first aid skills for backpacking, skiing, and mountain biking, although I imagine I’ll need a longer course at some point. Go for it, OP!
Anonymous
I’ve heard only good things about NOLs from many friends who took it. They were all early 20s and very outdoorsy, fwiw, so you might consider how comfortable you will be with that demographic.
Anonymous
Oh, that is beyond fine. At my age, I only work with people younger (and sometimes significantly younger) than me. I think they keep me young with their energy.
Anonymous
I wouldn’t have really thought about this. Is there something particular about younger outdoorsy people? I don’t know that many REALLY outdoorsy people, but in the past 2 years have done a ton more hiking and camping and people seem generally pretty friendly. Am I missing something?
Anonymous
No, don’t overthink it. Just do the class. It’s fine.
Anon
It’s funny, when I took it in college, it was mostly students, plus a few professors and the dean of admissions and his wife. The course is VERY hands on, so it was a little weird to be putting a leg splint on the guy who determined whether you got into college, but otherwise I wouldn’t worry about this! And he was a perfectly nice guy, so it wasn’t that weird, just a funny dynamic.
anon
I did it. It was great. I didn’t retain most of the info, but you repeatedly practice how to do a basic initial exam and give a report to first responders via radio or cellphone. It is mostly intended to help you respond to front country situations where help would be there within 24 hours.
The crowd was a mixture of Boy Scouts and their parents and random hiker types.
anon
I meant to add – you repeatedly practice how to do the exam/give the report, and that part stuck with me and I’ve actually used it on a couple of occasions (e.g. when I came across an 11 year old who had crashed his bike badly trying to jump off some stairs).
Anonymous
Is this a thing that Girl Scouts would do also? Or really just Boy Scouts? Just wondering if the demographics of hiking are largely male (for years I didn’t hike b/c I had no buddy to go with me, probably decades, since I had always gone with my parents and none of my friends did things like that).
anon
So when I was a Girl Scout, there was basically no outdoor stuff at all, which was a bummer. But I know TONS of women who hike. It is one of my favorite things to do with my girlfriends, and I feel like I see as many women as men hiking (maybe more). Solo hikers are more likely to be guys in my experience, though.
At that particular class, there were a bunch of Boy Scouts because a local council was preparing to take kids to Philmont (that big reserve the Boy Scouts own in the southwest) and the older kids had to be first aid certified in order to go on this backpacking expedition.
More anon
Yes, Girl Scouts too. This NOLS course is actually one of the classes approved in the Girl Scout training hierarchy. To take our Girl Scouts backpacking or lightweight camping where first responders may take an hour or more to reach us, we have to have one adult able to provide first aid in those conditions. (Level 2 first aid if help us 30 mins away and regular first aid if closer.)
Anonymous
All of my formative hiking and wilderness camping was through Girl Scouts.
Brainstorming Career Paths
For background, I am a lawyer with experience mostly as a business advisor. Currently in-house, but have done stints in a regional “big” law firm, state government, as well as some teaching as an adjunct. Things I enjoy doing: problem solving, distilling complicated topics into digestable pieces, connecting people – you have a need, let me introduce you to this person who can help you, gap analyses and then developing and implementing policies, processes, and training to close those gaps, teaching/educating, learning. I get bored easily in jobs and while I am not at all looking for my job to be my life or my identity, I’m taking some time to think about how to shape my career path to try to find one where I don’t get as bored as quickly. I’m doing my own side work on this, Designing Your Life, etc., but would love to hear ideas from the Hive about options to think about. Not at all wedded to staying in law, although I would prefer not to take a huge pay cut (I am around $150k in a LCOL region).
Thanks in advance!
OP
I should add, I don’t hate my job. It’s perfectly fine! Just taking some time to do a fun brainstorming exercise.
Anonymous
I found the book Working Identity by Herminia Ibarra incredibly helpful. I rarely see it recommended but I felt like it really nailed the way I need to think about work.
OP
Thanks!
Anon
I am like this, too. Best advice I have is to consider a role in a smaller company wherein you are required to wear a lot of hats and the role grows or you move on after a few years.
OP
Thank you!
I am currently in a ~200 person law department so we get somewhat silo’d and that leads to boredom after a while. Appreciate the tip!
Lily
Can I just get a gut check – how often is is normal for a 2.5 year old in daycare to bump their head (we get an incident report usually every couple weeks, but in the last couple days she’s bumped her head three times – they send us a picture each time and give her an icepack) and to have minor bruises on their knees/shins? They spend a lot of time outside on the jungle gym so I’m guessing it’s normal but I hate seeing my baby with bruises/bumps :(
Lily
oops, meant to post this on the moms board.
Anonymous
I don’t have kids but my childhood friends and i, and my friends’ kids now, always have bruises on their knees or shins, scuffed hands, maybe a scraped elbow, skinned knees, etc. I think that’s just what being a child is all about? If anything I think it’s a point of pride for parents – see my kid really does go outside! (I kid, sort of). I’d be more concerned about head bomps 3x in one week though – what did they say when you asked them?
Anon
Two and a half is the age at which my son was basically covered in bruises, as they get enough confidence in their mobility to really get up and go, but don’t have the judgement and body-awareness to know when they might run into something. I remember the days of getting multiple reports a week about – he hit his head; he and a friend were running and they slammed into a wall; he shut his fingers in a cubby door, etc. I also had a climber, and at home and at daycare, in thirty seconds he’d somehow manage to make it to the top of a bookcase (or small tree, jungle gym, etc.) by climbing it. I would not be too concerned and also not try to tell your daughter to “be more careful,” or otherwise restrict her movements. They learn a lot about their bodies and how to move them at this stage and a few bumps/bruises are kind of the price of that. It should get better in a few weeks/couple of months.
nuqotw
+1. We tried to get our kids to be careful but there is no teacher like two self-inflicted black eyes.
nuqotw
It sounds okay to me but it depends on the kid. How often does your kid bonk at home? If it’s anything close to even I wouldn’t worry. (Ours don’t believe us about things that will hurt until they have actually injured themselves. Show them a jungle gym and they will jump off of it. There are a lot of bruises in our home.)
Anon
I think the difference between a kid who doesn’t bump their head every day at daycare and a kid who does is really whether the daycare reports every bump. Sounds like yours is really diligent about it.
Curious
Anecdata of one: I bumped into our glass porch door a lot as a baby. I was farsighted and needed glasses. Bumps are probably normal but if it sustains, a vision check can’t hurt!
Normal!
Totally normal, in my experience. There was a long period of life from 1-2ish where my kid always was getting a bump or bruise somewhere (usually his forehead). It’s just part of navigating the walking thing, the new space as a bipedal human, and a space filled with kiddos. I wouldn’t be worried. It sounds like daycare is doing everything right. If you’re overly concerned about the bruising, ask the pedi for an iron check. In our case, it was a mix of rambunctious toddler and lower iron (that increased healing times). But again, bumps and scrapes and bruises are totally normal.
lost academic
Totally normal. It’s going to happen in phases especially when kids have development spurts – coordination is a work in progress. My same aged toddler is basically made of scraped arms and legs. There were periods where it was all about head bumps and faceplants.
anon.
All: I’m teaching my first lecture course adjunct in a law school this fall (100% vaccinated faculty, students, etc. and everyone masked, just as a caveat). I’ve taught law school seminars many times before but never lecture. Relevant info: The course is two hours long, once a week, and I assume I’ll be standing the entire time. I’m planning to just wear pants/ blazer/ Rothy points every day. Any other great dressing ideas for this kind of thing? Thanks.
Anonymous
I am always on Team Scarf.
Also, I tend to sit on tables (for the height assist and for my poor feet), so skirt length is important to factor in when you get dressed for that day.
Cb
Yes to this, as a fellow table percher. I move around the room a lot when I’m teaching and comfy, stable shoes are a must, especially if you need to crouch down and talk to groups.
Cat
I mean, based on what I see students wearing around town, assume that your class will be full of people in jeans, sweats, and leggings, so… don’t worry too much about looking too casual.
Anonymous
Law school professors tend to dress up more than other professors. When I was in law school ~15 years ago they wore suits. Adjuncts wore whatever they’d worn to work that day, which was usually a suit.
Anonymous
I don’t know what it is about law school, but if I were taking on significant amounts of debt for a degree, I’d want professors who looked like they were worth it, like obviously coming from a job maybe their teaching would qualify me to get. [DAs and detectives wear suits, and like no one else it seems.] If you are a tech zillionaire teaching a VC law course, fine, wear your tech bro gear. But don’t dress like that if you aren’t that.
Anonymous
Yeah but for what adjuncts get paid…I don’t know how much I would care about what my students wanted me to wear.
Anonymous
That is really something to take up with schools — where is their students’ $ going? I always thought that adjuncts were more valuable as law school teachers vs the sort of tenured professor who never really practiced (2 years at big law running discovery projects and checking footnotes in briefs =/= really practicing law, IMO), since I was going to have to actually practice law (and would have no basis to teach from if I didn’t). So I support that you are underpaid and probably add more value. But the students don’t ever see that.
[OTOH, with my OG bag and Rothys, many students may dress better than I do.]
Cat
Interesting – I was in school 12 years ago and it was a mix of full suit, business casual, “academically quirky,” and “cool” trendy jeans looks.
PLB
Same. 18 years ago.
Anonymous
Same. I wouldn’t want to see joggers or leggings on the regular though. Or wet hair. {shudder at that memory}
Nesprin
Bring a bigger tote than you expect to need- whenever I teach in person, students hand me stuff (papers, regrades, etc) even when there’s other ways to submit.
No Face
I preferred adjunct-taught classes over classes taught by tenured professors. They were usually coming straight from the office. Pants/blazer/Rothy is perfect. The professors who wore full suits were from firms that required it.
Anonymous
I’d probably wear a shirt, too, but maybe that’s just me. ;)
anonymous
This is astonishingly irresponsible. With the DELTA surge, you should not be teaching a class in person regardless of whether the law students and law school have decided to sacrifice people’s lives on the alter of meeting “in-person”.
Anon
You’re a little out of touch. I have two college students and know all their friends at various colleges. I can’t think of a single one that is 100% remote this year. Most are doing some sort of hybrid scheduling. And most colleges have started requiring 100% of their students to be vaccinated so the risk is at least lower.
Cat
yeah this is extreme. Everyone is masked and vaxxed!!
Anon
The accreditation for law schools is pretty much forcing US law schools to be in person, also.
anon.
This. I’m the OP and the American Bar Association is literally not allowing remote for schools to be accredited so…. yeah.
Anon
Tell it to the universities? Even classes that have normally taught online asynchronous have been moved in-person since the pandemic since there’s so much pressure to teach in person.
My partner declined to adjunct in person last semester, lost all affiliation with the school, was replaced, and could not be rehired. Now they’re teaching at another university (farther away) to regain affiliation. The plan is to use extensive PPE. At the time they accepted the job, the idea was that the university probably wouldn’t actually be able to reopen, given… everything. But the university is reopening anyway.
They’re also denying individual accommodations to both faculty and students. I don’t know the details on this (I don’t know what kinds of ADA claims people made that were rejected or if any were accepted), but it seems like no one really knows and there’s not much transparency.
Anonymous
No, it isn’t. Stop it. Maybe spend your time advocating for people who aren’t vaxxed yet to get their shots or something actually useful.
Anon
This has been said ad nauseum but I’ll say it again: everyone’s risk calculation is different and it sounds like the OP’s employer has taken very good and reasonable precautions. If you don’t want to do something like this because it seems unsafe to you, don’t do it. It doesn’t mean it’s an “astonishingly irresponsible” thing in an objective sense, and posting this kind of comment frankly seems like tr0lling for outraged responses to me.
No Face
Having in-person activities where everyone is vaccinated and wearing a mask is not irresponsible.
Anonymous
I’m an administrator at a university where we not only had in-person classes last year but we had classes in which students had to touch other humans because of the student learning outcomes occupational therapy, physical therapy, dental hygiene, etc. There are limits to what you can simulate online. We had zero in-class transition because everyone was diligent about wearing masks.
pugsnbourbon
I am in higher ed admin (tho not law school) and I saw an instructor today wearing a navy blue midi-length shirtdress. I thought she looked fantastic and comfortable.
Anonymous
I’m dating a divorced dad in his 40s. I’m 30s. I recently found out that he cheated on his now-ex wife. It doesn’t sound like that was the only thing that ended their marriage, but I am only getting his side. I have never been cheated on (that I know of). I’ve heard, over and over again, lines about how people don’t change and cheaters cheat again. I honestly don’t doubt his fidelity but now it has crossed my mind, what about when times are hard, or what about when I start traveling for work again (probably next year depending on the pandemic).
Any words of wisdom from this group?
anon
It would depend on how much he’s reflected on what led to him cheating, and how remorseful he seems. Does he take ownership for the role it played in the divorce?
Anon
I don’t think everyone who cheats is automatically a future cheater, but if you have a choice of being with someone who doesn’t have a history of cheating, that would be a better option. In other words, if you are not already fully committed to this person, I would reconsider the relationship.
Anon
Adding – how did you find out about the cheating – did he tell you, or did you hear from someone else? Have you two had a heart to heart talk, or are you waiting to discuss this topic? If he hasn’t been forthcoming, that would also be a flag.
Anonymous
I would want to know if it was a one time thing, or a longer term thing and if he disclosed or if it only came out because she found out somehow. I’d be more cautious if it was a long term thing that only came out because she found out vs. a one time thing that he disclosed.
DH’s parents worked through infidelity but key factors for his mom was that (1) it was a one time thing, (2) he felt awful and came clean about it (3) he agreed right away to marriage counselling and to not see her again (involved quitting a volunteer commitment he loved).
Anon
I think it depends on why he cheated and the circumstances. Was he a serial cheater or did he cheat in the end when the marriage was seriously on the rocks anyway? Can he be faithful or is he a habitual cheater? Did he go to therapy? Was it a one time thing with a random woman, a full blown affair, or several women?
Anon
Great advice above.
How big is the age gap between you two and how old was his mistress (for lack of a better word)?
/sarcasm
(apparently the appropriate, non-emotional term is “affair partner”, according to the Esther Perel books I read after I learned about my husband…)
ok mistress.
Anonymous
Affair partner sounds tragically clinical.
Anon
The problem with mistress is that there isn’t a male equivalent. There’s no equally demonizing word for a man who has an affair with a married woman.
Anonymous
There is in Spanish! Sancho.
Anonymous
Can’t you just say lover? Does the person have to be demonized?
Anon
Sure. Lover is gender neutral like affair partner. Mistress is not, and definitely has negative connotations.
Anonymous
DTMFA
Anon
Yes, by all means, he cheated with someone not the OP, he never deserves love again. (Sarcasm since it can be hard to tell sometimes)
Anonymous
It’s not about what the dude deserves. It’s about what OP deserves, which is a partner who is not going to cheat on her.
Anon
Sorry but it’s such a leap and ridiculous to make a decision about being with someone because they cheated in a prior relationship.
Anon
There is no guarantee the OP is going to get cheated on. As other people have pointed out, there are nuances to these situations that can be important. FYI, the correct answer to any relationship question posed here is not always “dump him/her.” That knee-jerk response is getting really old.
Anon
So I’m on the other side of this. I’m divorced, and I cheated on my ex for a long time. He never found out or suspected. I went to therapy, then ended things with both ex H and affair partner (literally on the same day lol). I’m now several years out from the divorce and have had several more years of therapy. I understand what led me to cheat in the first place, the wrong paths I took, etc. I disclose this to new partners because I (now) think honesty is important, and because it’s impossible for me to avoid former affair partner in my professional circles. My current partner has no issue with this part of my past because he understands that it was a mistake I made a long time ago under very different circumstances and I’ve done a lot of work on myself since then. I don’t think I’m likely to cheat again — it wasn’t a single drunken mistake type thing (I don’t really drink anyway), but a bad situation I willingly entered for bad reasons. Should I find myself in a similar bad situation again, I think I have the skills and emotional maturity to deal with it differently.
As for your situation, I think it matters a lot how you found out about it, the specifics of the cheating situation, and what he has to say about it, with emphasis on the latter. Someone who says “it was a drunken mistake but NBD and I promise not to do it again” (or worse) may not have done enough self reflection on the topic, IMO.
Friday
Honestly OP, if your man hasn’t said basically this whole post to you, I’d move on.
No Face
Good for you for putting in the work.
I think this is a good illustration for how I think about mistakes. There are definitely choices I made before that I would never make now. I recognized my error, faced some ugly truths, and changed for the better. I don’t mind that other people made mistakes, but they need to do the work to be better.
So, if someone’s attitude was “I cheated but she was the worst / I was unhappy / I deserve love / etc”, I would not want to date or be friends. If someone’s attitude was “I cheated but I realized it was a huge mistake / I should have dealt with the problems head on / I never did anything like that again” I would consider it.
Anon
+1
Anon
I got married right out of college and we had a good 5 years and then a terrible 5 years. I felt unloved and unloveable and sought validation outside of my marriage toward the end of it.
I got divorced, got therapy, dated, remarried and have now been married to my current husband for 20 years and have never even thought about stepping out.
It can be done.
Anon @10:05
Yup, this was me but add spouse deteriorating into alcoholism, refusing to get help, trauma from childhood abuse, and guilt about “abandoning” spouse. I was 26 at the time it happened. Nevertheless, I should have made different choices, and would deal with it very differently now in my late 30s. But it’s also true that the surrounding circumstances weren’t something I would wish on others.
anonypotamus
Anon @10:05, when I read your response, I thought I was having a stroke and wrote your paragraph without knowing. This was literally my exact situation (now mid-thirties). Years of therapy later, not remarried yet, but long term committed relationship and I would absolutely not make the same choice now that I did then. Things aren’t always so black and white.
Anon
I’m in the process of divorce and never cheated on anybody, let alone my soon to be ex-husband. But I can tell you that I was so deeply unhappy in the last few years of my marriage that I could have (but didn’t!) have an affair. It’s hard to go years on end without physical intimacy. I have no idea what this guy’s marriage was like, but I have a little more compassion for people struggling in bad marriages than I did before.
Anonymous
But you *didn’t* cheat. Good people don’t cheat no matter how unhappy they are. They leave first.
Anon
I don’t think life is that black and white. I wish it was.
Anon
+1 – it really isn’t and some of the comments on this board to that effect are just ridiculous.
Anone
+1
anon
Lots of cheaters ITT showing their true colors. I think some of y’all are afraid to grapple with the fact that you’re not the best version of yourselves, so you make excuses and justifications for your crappy actions. I know it’s not easy to be self-critical but it’ll make you better in the long run.
Anon
I literally wrote that I have never cheated on anybody. Learn to read.
Anon
“Lots of cheaters ITT showing their true colors. I think some of y’all are afraid to grapple with the fact that you’re not the best version of yourselves, so you make excuses and justifications for your crappy actions. I know it’s not easy to be self-critical but it’ll make you better in the long run.”
This is an unbelievably snarky and sanctimonious response and was only shared to make yourself feel superior, anon at 2:13. I am sure if you were to post some of the less-savory things you’ve done in your life (like, hmm, maybe being super-judgemental of other people?) we would find plenty to judge and criticize. If you want to get on your high horse about how being self-critical aids self-improvement efforts, here’s a suggestion: turn that mirror around so you can see yourself in it, and take a long, hard look. If you are honest with yourself I’m sure you’ll see there’s room for improvement.
As an FYI, I have never cheated on anyone.
ANON
@2:13 is exactly right. If she touched a nerve, then you’re def telling on yourselves. Also LOL to the genius who is calling her judgmental while being the judgiest and most sanctimonious person on here. *Chef’s kiss*
Anon
“@2:13 is exactly right. If she touched a nerve, then you’re def telling on yourselves. Also LOL to the genius who is calling her judgmental while being the judgiest and most sanctimonious person on here. *Chef’s kiss*”
LOL at you, for thinking this response was some kind of eloquent or profound addition to the conversation. You also need to hold that mirror up to yourself. You’re not nearly as witty as you think you are.
Anon
No. If you have ever been in a relationship that has seriously degraded to the point that you feel lonely and isolated *when the other person is in the room with you*, maybe you don’t get it. I was in a relationship like that. I did not cheat but I thought about it a lot. What I did do was dump my partner the minute I met another guy who was kind, and whom I was interested in. I dumped and never looked back. I have now been married to that other guy for two decades. Life is messy and things happen. It is absolutely not black and white and if you think it is – that says a lot to me about you and your personality, and nothing about the OP’s situation.
Anon
Yep, in the last year of my marriage I developed an intense crush on my coworker (and *ahem* had so many intense gardening dreams about him*). I never initiated anything and nothing actually happened, but if he had initiated on one of the several business trips we were on together, I’m not sure I would have found it in me not to jump his bones. My ex-H and I weren’t intimate either physically or emotionally at that point and in hindsight I was so, so, lonely. Thankfully this was the wake up call I needed to end my marriage. I would discuss the circumstances with current partner and generally think cheating is wrong, but the way my marriage ended made me a lot less judgemental about it.
Anon
I posted below (the nesting fail). Being in a marriage without sxual satisfaction is awful in ways I never could have anticipated before marriage.
Seventh Sister
Honestly, I think the people that cheated on me are genuinely good people. Both were young and dumb and made mistakes. It was a learning experience for me (albeit a painful one) and if I’m going to stand in judgment of anyone I’ve ever been involved with, I’ll judge the ones who were unkind and cruel and selfish in the way they treated me while we were dating.
Anonymous
It’s one thing to have compassion for those who cheat. It’s another to want to be partnered with them. I’m friends with lots of people I wouldn’t marry.
The situation you describe is terrible, lack of intimacy can be crushing. Would I stay friends with someone who cheated under those circumstances? Absolutely, and I have. But I wouldn’t seriously date/marry them. They have shown that they lack the maturity, impulse control, and dedication that I find necessary in a life partner. I expect more of the person who will be by my side at my mom’s funeral, when our child is in the hospital, on my own death bed.
Anonymous
Well said.
No Face
Another good distinction. I am friends with all kinds of people with all kinds of values, but my standards for a life partner are narrow.
Anonymous
I don’t think “once a cheater always a cheater” is true, but I do think there are some personality flaws that can lead to cheating along with lots of other problematic behaviors. Often, cheating is a symptom not the root problem itself. I would want to understand the problem that led to cheating.
For example, conflict aversion is a big one. Instead of having hard conversations, they check out and force their partner to be the bad guy – the one who tries to talk about problems, who initiates counseling, who does the breaking up. Maybe they will start a new relationship before their partner finally leaves or maybe they won’t. But if the guy hasn’t dealt with his conflict aversion then he’s going to create lots of problems in future relationships even if he never cheats again.
Monday
Good point.
Anecdotally, it also seems to me that cheaters tend to be people who value attention and validation more than others. We all need these things, but the cheaters I know are often the life of the party, flirtatious, thrive on compliments etc.
I also notice that the most conventionally beautiful women seem to be cheated on constantly! My best guess so far on that is that the kinds of men who pursue arm candy are the same kinds of men who don’t really feel the need to be faithful.
Op
Maybe I should rephrase and ask – should I ask him more questions? If yes – what should I say?
– he cheated while they were married. I don’t know whether they were separated or not at the time, I assume it was before he filed.
– I don’t know whether it was once or with one person or every week for a year with a different person (different extremes).
– He repeatedly told me he made a lot of mistakes, eventually said one of them was not being faithful. I didn’t ask questions, I just listened.
– he has been to therapy for the last several years and if his family (biased) is at all truthful, he is a very different person. He used to drink and party – happy hour crowd type of thing – and now he doesn’t drink, might have one glad of wine with me.
Anon
If they were separated, it’s not cheating (unless it’s specifically a “trial separation” with the goal of getting back together — depending on what they had communicated to each other). I’m divorced and did a ton of dating between separating/moving out and my divorce being final, 2.5 years later. We did a mediated divorce, and it took about a year from separation until we had gone through the mediations and had a financial agreement in place and could file. 2 months of that was the lawyers writing it up. I do not consider any of that cheating. Given the length of time it takes a divorce to finalize, it is not a fair ask for someone to remain celibate the whole time. If divorces took 2-4 months, then maybe I would have a different opinion (personally I did not start dating until about 6 months after initiating the separation/divorce).
Anon
Yeah my mediated divorce process overlapped with my dating during separation as well. Mentally I was divorced the moment my ex moved out. In fact, we only saw each other to sign papers after that.
Anon
Yes, ask these things. As well as about his “lot of mistakes” that weren’t cheating. He doesn’t owe you gory details, but you definitely need to understand what happened to make a current decision for yourself.
Anonymous
The “happy hour crowd” thing would give me pause. I’ve seen the pattern so many times. Couple often goes to “happy hour” (which turns into dinner and then after dinner drinks and so on). Then they have a baby and wife is at home while husband is still going out. He thinks there’s no problem with it because this is what they’ve always done and she’s home with the kid anyway. She gets mad that he’s always out. Then he thinks she’s a boring harpy who’s out to ruin his fun. He checks out, maybe cheats, they get a divorce and all of a sudden he has to take care of the kids on his own and realizes what a jerk he was for all those years. I don’t have experience yet with what comes next, but I think all of these men are despicable and I have a hard time believing any of them have truly changed. Seems more likely that they’re just waiting until they sucker another woman into staying home and/or the kids are old enough to be left on their own so he can resume his old habits. Maybe your guy is different. But don’t feel like you’re a bad person if you don’t want to stick around to find out.
Anonymous
“he used to drink and party . . . and now doesn’t drink” doesn’t seem like nearly enough, to me.
Look for character. Integrity. Emotional maturity and life wisdom. The ability to be vulnerable and humble when called for. Listen for how he talks about people. Listen very very carefully to how he talks about those mistakes. listen to see if there’s any wisdom in what he says or is he parroting a lot of slogans that don’t have much meaning attached to them. Pay attention to who he is when he’s with people who aren’t “his” type of people. Does he listen to people with genuine interest and kindness, or does he use them to make himself feel better or make himself look good? What is he going to be like as an old man? What elicits compassion or kindness from him? What does he do with anger, disappointment, sadness? How does he react to not getting his way, or to actual hard times or suffering?
Texas
I think asking more questions and getting more information is important. What I’d be looking to essentially learn is whether he takes responsibility for his role in the marriage failing; they both have responsibility for the choices they made. It’s never all her or all him. If he takes responsibility for his role (infidelity and whatever else because there is more) and he has done therapy to figure out the whys and change his behavior and life outlook, then great.
Something not mention here, but I think is also important as you evaluate the relationship is how do his prior actions impact his relationship now with his ex-wife and how does that spill over into raising kids together? I’m married to a divorce dad who gets along really well with his ex-wife and there is no lingering animosity from anything that happened while they were married (at least not on his side, and I don’t see any indications that there is from her side). And the divorced parents/step-parenting thing is hard with these pretty good circumstances. If either he or his ex hold resentment about what happened in their marriage, including about the infidelity, that makes everything a lot more difficult.
Also Anon
Personally, I’d probably rethink the relationship. Not because I hate all cheaters and don’t think they “deserve” love, but because I’ve been cheated on before, by someone who’d cheated in the past and I thought things would be different with me, and they weren’t. It took me a long time to get over what had happened in that relationship, and I had trust issues for years afterwards. I do sympathize with people who cheated because they weren’t getting the intimacy they needed, but I’d also worry that if things hit a lull or get tough between us, they’d go off and cheat before even trying to communicate their needs and frustrations with me, or work through the problem.
At the very least, that’s a concern I’d bring up.
BeenThatGuy
After a visit with my parents last week, my sister and I realized it’s time for them to have a home heath aid. Parents are 90 and 80 years old and are no longer able to keep up with basic hygiene. They live in an Independent Living community and the director provided some resources for us to start looking. We are thinking 1 day a week for an hour or 2. We believe we can cover the cost without a problem but my biggest concern is my father. He’s a miserable S.O.B. and is reluctant to this. But he is the one wearing urine soaked clothing multiple days in a row, unshaven and using a brown toothbrush, so this is mostly for his benefit. I have to guess that Agencies deal with crotchety old people all the time but I worry about him running this aid out of the house. Does anyone have advice or experience with this?
Anonymous
If either of your parents is a veteran, look into veterans’ benefits to cover this.
pugsnbourbon
+1. Even in a very small town, my grandfather was able to get excellent care through his veteran benefits.
Agree with the other posters that this is going to be much more than an hour a week.
Anon
I went through something similar with my mother late last year. I don’t think his crankiness will be an issue, but you may have issues finding someone to work for so little time. Every agency I contacted required 4 hours 3-4 times a week. And honestly, it seems like this would require more than an hour a week.
Anonymous
Yes. This is a multi-hour thing – Both the shower and part and the agency minimums – and you’re probably going to want it several times a week.
aging in place.
+1
You can’t hire someone for an hour, and it will take much much longer than you think to do basic hygiene for an elderly couple. And the other poster is correct – you usually have to hire for 4 hour blocks. Remember, these poor aids are being paid terribly, have to drive themselves to the job etc…
I would also look into whether dementia or depression is contributing here, especially for your father. And would get them assessed by OT if possible to make sure their apartment is accessible, their shower is accessible and safe. They may be at the stage in life of one shower a week, with assistance, is the safest option (at least for 90 year old) and otherwise bed baths. They need to purchase the bed bath cloths themselves, but the work very well.
And most home health aids are very used to crotchety old men. And just be prepare that your parents might just refuse.
Anon
We had to get home care for one of my grandmothers at the end of her life and she was diametrically opposed to it. Agree that the home health people will want a minimum 12-16 hour commitment weekly (the one we worked with wanted 16). It takes awhile for the health-care worker to come in, assess the situation, talk with the person being cared for, and then perform duties – it’s not a one-hour thing (and I also agree that the situation sounds like it warrants more than an hour a couple of times a week; making sure people are taking their meds, engaging in hygiene, eating appropriate meals, etc. requires more contact than the OP is talking about. I speak from experience).
As for the OP’s dad not wanting the worker there – my grandmother, as I said, was completely opposed to having “strangers in her house” and went into the situation with the mindset that they were all going to steal from her. We went through a couple of home-health aides she basically ran off before we found one that was the right combination of no-nonsense and caring that worked for my grandma. I won’t say that it was ever a warm and fuzzy relationship but it worked okay. The aide was able to figure out what my grandmother was willing to eat (besides cornflakes, which was what she’d been subsisting on at the point we realized she needed care) and got her eating real food on a regular schedule, which helped her overall health tremendously. My grandmother was able to stay in her home for about 8 months with just home health before she finally passed; we never did have to move her into a facility which was her absolute worst nightmare.
I will say that even with a home-health aide, in our case, there had to be involvement by the family to make sure things were going okay. We were lucky enough to have family that lived in the same town as my grandma and they’d go over and check in on her in addition to the health care aide being there 5 days a week for 3-4 hours a day. I don’t know what it would have been like if we hadn’t had local family to monitor things and provide care on days the aide didn’t (or couldn’t) come. I have already told my parents, in the event they can no longer live without assistance, they should anticipate they will need to move to my city so we can coordinate their care; I won’t have the bandwidth to try to manage everything long-distance and fly back and forth between my city and their city just to make sure all the ends are covered.
Digby
Lots of experience with this. Yes, the agencies have a lot of experience with crotchety old people. It may take several/many tries to find an aide who clicks with your parents, and whom your parents like. If an aide isn’t working out, ask the agency for another – they’re used to this, and should understand if you say it isn’t a good fit. That said, they’re limited to the people who are available to work, and who have available hours, so sometimes you have to make do. If you find an aide who gets along with your parents, do what you can to treat that aide well – maybe Visa gift cards from time to time, holiday bonus, autumnal equinox bonus, etc. Good aides are worth their weight in gold.
Do your parents have any valuables in their home? It’s very common for older people to accuse aides of theft – when often the item was just misplaced, or given away twenty years ago. Do what you can to remove or lock up valuables in a safe. It won’t prevent all problems – my dad insisted one of his aides took a travel mug from his house. We hadn’t thought to lock up the travel mugs…
Good luck – this can be hard. But if you find the right aide, things can be so much better!
Anon
I just learned at my 97 year old uncle’s funeral this week that he bought his aide a house for her family in his final years. He was of completely sound mind and affluent. He and his children had tremendous gratitude towards the woman who devotedly cared for him and his late wife and took care of him throughout Covid and kept him safe and healthy when all his own children could not visit him from out of state. Obviously this is an extreme case (and it turned out my uncle had quietly and secretly been generous throughout his life), but yes, please show your appreciation of a good aide.
Anonymous
Worth noting that you may be able to give the aide bonuses/gifts/tips, but at least where I’m at, they cannot accept anything informal from the person they are caring for. Typically instead of arguing, we let them write us a check and then voided it and turned it in to our supervisor. Although it’s lovely to think of the stories where folks build a genuine relationship and support the aide, there are many situations that would be ethically grey. A hard line against gifts protects the elderly from exploitation and also protects the aide from accusations.
BeenThatGuy
Thanks for all the advice and ideas. It’s much appreciated!
ProfP
It will depend on the location, but I suggest interviewing more than one agency if there are options. Different agencies have different policies and target audiences: for example, for my mother with dementia, we went with an agency that had a focus on clients with memory issues. That means the aides went in expecting to deal with that kind of situation. And yes, be prepared to speak up and ask for a different aide if there’s a problem with one. But if your father just doesn’t want an aide around, changing aides won’t improve the situation. My father was really suspicious at first but adapted surprisingly well to having an aide in the house. And to echo other commenters, you will almost certainly need to hire in 4-hour time blocks, but that amount of time is actually not huge, given how long it will take to get them through their morning routine. Sympathy, and good luck.
Sloan Sabbith
We found someone for my dad through Care.com, which was a gigantic pain on the front end but has ended up working out great. We were able to work with her directly to figure out a schedule. For the first couple of weeks after he got home from rehab, we were having a home health agency come and they sent someone different every day. It was miserable for everyone.
We posted a really detailed ad on Care.com, paid for the monthly membership, and then I messaged pretty much every single person who met our qualifications on the list. The woman we found gets along great with my dad, and he’s excited for when she comes even though he’s fairly unhappy about people who aren’t my mom and I caring for him.
LaurenB
I too got a caregiver vis care situation com and was very pleased. The caregiver visited my grandmother a few times a week and did light housekeeping and food. When gm fell and went into a nursing home, she was our eyes/ears on the ground (we lived in a different city).
LaurenB
Ugh care dot com! Where did situation come from??
Anon
If you haven’t already, please look into getting a power of attorney from them. Certain banks have their own forms, so you should check with their bank to see what they require. Also ask if they have a will and where do they keep their bills etc. Good luck – this is not an easy time for them or you.
Senior Attorney
Yes this is crucial. Do it ASAP if you haven’t already.
Anonymous
Some clothing thoughts:
1. I got the Zella dress. Got a M, which is otherwise right right size for me, but the arm holes are large and low and the fabric below them too wide. You don’t see with my arms down, but it’s still hot and I’d not likely add a jacket until much later this fall. Can a tailor take in? Otherwise, I really like the dress. Lightweight, barely wrinkled on arrival, POCKETS.
2. I had also gotten the pleated Athleta skirt. Love that thing. With both items: I can wear Thigh Society shorts underneath with ease, so no chub rub. I like pants, but get tired of pants every day.
Anonymous
The only way to raise the arm holes is to take the dress up at the shoulders. I don’t try to do this on anything other than simple tank tops with a straight seam at the shoulder.
Anonymous
Taking in the excess width under the arms will also make the armholes somewhat smaller. A tailor can do this easily.
Cat
Yes, a tailor can do this pretty easily. I “mock” alter armholes using a safety pin on the inside seam to gather excess fabric under the armpit… and sometimes it works well enough on an inexpensive-enough dress that I never bother doing the real alteration!
Trixie
About the dress: take it to a tailor, as taking in the side seams might help. The armholes are cut low–that is why I did not buy it–but a sports bra worn underneath the dress will help. A tank top, sports bra, or cami will cover the underarm area.
Anon
I was going to suggest a bralette that matches the dress – a meant to be seen look.
TX Science
In Texas here – and deep into the school mask mandate debates. A common discussion argument that I’m seeing and hearing is that cloth masks are useless and why have any mask if it’s not surgically-rated. Does anyone have a link where this argument is upheld by data and science? Google really only shows opinion pieces – I sure would like to understand the facts of this argument to see how it differs from my current understanding and everything I’ve held to be factual since this pandemic started (currently Team Mask My Kid here)
Anon
The problem with cloth masks is that there are no standards about what they’re made of and how they fit, which are the critical factors in determining how well they work to reduce transmission. Some cloth masks work well, others don’t, but there’s no way to scientifically test something with huge variability and no standards. I’ve seen studies that measure particle flow suggesting that cloth masks can be reasonably effective, but it mostly comes down to material and how well they fit each individual person. At this point in the pandemic, I think it’s pretty ridiculous that we’re not wearing KN95s in high risk situations, which are definitely more effective and are more comfortable than most of the cloth masks I’ve tried, YMMV.
Anonymous
This piece appears in the opinion section, but it summarizes the authors’ empirical research. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/10/opinion/covid-schools-masks.html
Anon
In studies, some cloth masks have tested well and compare favorably to real medical masks! Others did really poorly. Three layers is better than one, and fit matters so you’re not just breathing around the mask.
Anonymous
I look to see what health-care workers are doing at work. Last year, it was N-95 with mask over to keep it clean. This summer before Delta, blue exam mask generally. Now, I bet they are doing more than that. But they didn’t stop. And our city dropped masks except in health-care settings. Now they are back everywhere.
Remember the infected hair cutters in OK or nearby? They infected no one b/c their customers were wearing masks (and wearing them correctly I bet, which is not always the case).
Anonymous
Fact-check.org has an article on the evolving science on face masks.
Anonymous
You’re not going to find any articles upholding the idea that cloth masks are useless because the data all shows they work. Do they work perfectly? No – but we also continue to buckle our seatbelts even though they don’t save every single person in every single car crash.
And in ancedata from my area – masks were not mandatory at high school in certain scenarios for part of last year. There was a superspreader event at a local high school where basically all the kids in masks did not get covid and all the ones who were maskless got sick and some of them have had long covid and are not cleared for sports this year.
Anonymous
https://emilyoster.substack.com/p/welcome-to-econ-1430
Is an interesting summary. Her takeaway is that masks reduce transmission but do not eliminate it. It’s not like if we all wore masks covid would be stopped in its tracks. I’m a physical scientist and, honestly, I don’t find this data convincing. That doesn’t mean that masks don’t help, it means that it’s hard to measure. There is suggestive evidence, coupled with a reasonable physical theory about why masks should work, and given the stakes many people are willing to act on this.
HCOL Renter
Looking for advice on purchasing a “starter” apartment.
Background:
I’m a very frugal person in my mid-20s. I’ve saved about 40k for a down payment, and have been consistently contributing 15% to my 401k. I’ve also been given a sizable custodial account (~500k). I make about 70k a year at a entry level job with excellent benefits. I’m in grad school part-time, that is paid for though my employer. No debt. I currently rent a room in a shared house, the rent is likely to increase dramatically after the eviction moratorium ends. This increase would make buying more cost effective if I kept the apartment for at least 5 years.
I’m thinking about buying a small, centrally located apartment, but I’m concerned about the opportunity cost of “investing” in something that might not suit my needs in 10 years. Has anyone here bought a starter apartment in their 20s? Did you regret not buying something bigger?
Anon
I never regretted buying, made a lot of money that way and was happy I bought what I could afford. When it came time to sell, having something bigger would have been slightly easier to move but my place still sold in about a week (in a city where most things sold before hitting the market). Smaller places have less future buyers, the market is limited to singletons and couples who plan to stay child free for a while and that’s a tiny market. So, my advice is buy as big as you can afford, it gives you room to grow and more sale options. I sold my tiny place to upgrade to a 3 bedroom, while single, and was glad I did. When I eventually met my husband he moved in with me and rented out his small starter place. That’s also always an option.
aging in place.
I do NOT recommend buying the biggest you can afford, which leaves you with higher monthly expenses/utilities/furniture purchases. Buy what you need, ideally much less than you can afford. People are always looking to buy a small apartment in a bustling city. Who cares if it takes more than 1 week (!) to sell.
Anon
Because I was in the hottest market in the country when I sold and it took 10x as long to sell a small place. What you can afford doesn’t mean maxing to your last dollar, it means don’t automatically buy the smallest thing because it’s cheapest.
Anon
You can ALWAYS unload a small, centrally located apartment in a city. More people can afford it, and starter places are always in short supply.
Buy your place!
Anonymous
If you think the apartment will be a cost-saver after 5 years and will suit your needs for at least 10 years, buying sounds like a no-brainer. You can sell the apartment when it no longer meets your needs. Yes, there are transaction costs to selling, but there are also costs to continuing to rent, and you’re not planning to sell after just a couple of years.
Anonymous
I thought about this and decided to buy a small 2BR so it would grow with me a little (at the time, the difference was not 2x the cost of a 1BR) and would let me get a roommate if times ever got tight (so 2BR/2BA). It was the right choice for me and the resale market for that area was thought to be better than 2BR (whereas you could rent a 1BR to someone, but in some places it is such a PITA to be a landlord that I would have preferred to sell vs rent when it was time to go).
Cat
We bought a starter condo in our 20s and would only suggest that you don’t buy unless it’s at least a 2BR. 1 BR’s do not have the same demand, and I would guess especially not in These Times. (We were able to sell and basically break even but it took longer than 2 BR’s in our building.)
Anonymous
Buy your place. My biggest regret is waiting to buy my first place, I could have spared myself several years of rent.
anne-on
Hi, I did this in my 20’s! I bought my first studio at 22, and then a 1-bed at 24 because the studio appreciated enough that I could parlay it into a bigger down payment. I bought centrally located apartments within commuting distance of midtown NYC and never for a second regretted buying either of them. Not having to deal with roommates, being able to paint/upgrade my own apartment, having the deduction from a mortgage, all of that was a tremendous benefit. Downsides were having very little disposable income left (so I wasn’t doing the whole NYC brunches/shopping/happy hours that I felt like a lot of co-workers were doing) but I’m a bit of a homebody so that didn’t really bother me in the long term. It was also great for forcing me to understand my own finances a LOT better – I refinanced twice to secure better interest rates, and I got very comfortable talking numbers with realtors/mortgage brokers.
Ribena
I bought a ‘starter’ apartment (although a relatively large one at 600 sq ft – I have a kitchen diner and a separate living room, which is pretty rare for one-bed flats here) at 24 (moved in a few days before my 25th birthday, at the start of 2019.). I don’t feel like I’ve outgrown it – although I am sick of spending all my waking hours in my living room, as that’s where my desk is!
When I flat hunted in 2018, I prioritised fewer bigger rooms – I saw 2 bed flats with less square footage – which I might not do if I were searching now, knowing I’d be working from home more than ‘occasionally.’. I also prioritised a short walk to work over indoor space – but the nature of this city is that I’d have had to go significantly further from the city centre to get more space at a price I could afford in a neighbourhood I like (most of the ‘nicer’ areas slightly further out don’t have the small-ish flats).
The place might also feel too small if I had found a partner, but I have had no luck on the dating scene.
I am considering moving, but not because I’ve outgrown the flat. I won’t be putting it on the market until at least the middle of next year, so even if it sold immediately that would be 3.5 years here.
Emma
I bought a small condo on my own after my divorce, then met someone new shortly after and moved to a bigger house with him 18 months later. I kept the condo because I can rent it for enough to cover the costs, but could sell it at a profit now. I loved having a space of my own and overall it was a good financial move. The closing costs (including taxes, minor repairs, new furniture, etc) can be higher than you think, but it sounds as though you have a solid cushion for that.
Anonymous
Do you think it’s preferable for businesses to set a number of days per week the employees are expected to be in the office, or to say hybrid WFH arrangements should be accommodated according to business needs? I feel like the latter is a trap much like “unlimited vacation” is a trap. When firms move to unlimited vacation days, attorneys take fewer days off. This “unlimited WFH” feels like, you should be in the office unless there’s a reason not to, which is exactly what I did before the pandemic anyway. I really resent firms trying to look like they’re being so flexible by not requiring people to be in the office 3 days a week (or whatever). When you don’t set an expectation for how many days it’s ok to be home, then you’re just saying that you should be in the office. Am I being overly cynical here?
Anonymous
My office has 2 mandatory in-person days per month, so one day every two weeks. It works well in my opinion, but there are some people who think they should get full time wfh and are pretty salty about it. I personally think those people are being dramatic though since our office has never ever promised anyone full-time WFH.
Anonymous
What is the purpose of two mandatory days per month? It seems to me if business is fine 90% of the time from home, having two mandatory days is kind of silly
Anonymous
The two days per month are for swapping work products and meetings for classified information that can’t be done outside of the office.
Anonymous
I would call their bluff. Unlimited WFH? Great! I’ll be home five days a week then.
Anon
I have the opposite reaction to you but the same feelings about unlimited vacation (that’s a scam). I’d far prefer to have my employer say something general and let me figure out when to be in the office than to set a number of days.
anon
Having been the decider on some hybrid arrangements, my takeaway is that there is no single policy that’s going to please everyone.
Cat
I would prefer standard days “in” vs “out” because “use your best judgment” often tr-nslates IRL to boss-think “whenever I’m secretly planning to swing by your office to discuss something in person, I will be annoyed if you’re not there.”
Emma
Our firm sent a sudden 2 day a week requirement and it’s not going over well. There was a lot of fluff about being flexible, which mostly sounded like “if the partner wants you to come in you will need to come in five days a week, the 2 days is a minimum”. Two days a week was my preferred schedule so I’m fine with it, but I can bike to the office and don’t need to take public transportation. My assistant asked if she could stay 100% remote and I said that’s fine as far as I’m concerned, but the whole thing is confusing and my firm isn’t doing great with communicating expectations.
No Face
My firm is hybrid and we have a schedule of days to be in the office. I like knowing to expect people in the office, because I know when I can discuss something in person with a particular individual. It is also nice knowing which staff person will be able to handle an in-person concern on a certain day.
Anon
I am honestly so confused by number of days mandates. Like what is the point of being physically in the office. For me, it’s to collaborate but how do you collaborate if Susy is in MWF and Jonny is in Tuesday’s snd Thursday’s. IMHO an agreement that everyone (be that the whole firm or a department or whatever else makes sense) be in on specific agreed days so that collaboration can actually happen on those days and then let people be adults the rest of the time and decide if wfh or in office works better for themselves.
Doodles
Yep 100% agree with your Jonny/Susy different days scenario. There’s no point. My firm is doing Tuesdays and Thursdays as mandatory office days. Up to you the rest of the week. I’m very happy with that arrangement. But you’d can’t please everyone. Some want WFH all the time and others never leave the office and others wants M/W/F in office.
Anon
Totally agree. If I’m forced to come into the office I want there to be a reason, otherwise I can be trusted to decide for myself based on my projects and needs.
Anonymous
A huge thank you to the person who recommended Rago Bros. of Morristown NJ for leather repair. They are 1/3 the price of who I used to use and their work is outstanding. I bought a beat up Chanel flap bag on Fashionfile and they made it like new for $350.
Also thanks to Senior Attorney for the Balthazar rec! It’s a little gory but great acting and story.
Anonymous
Are you willing to share what you paid for the Chanel? I really want a flap bag but I’m having major sticker shock on the second hand market. Thanks!
Anonymous
Sure. I paid $2,800. Things that made it cheaper were that it was a jumbo and I think big bags are out of style, it was a grey color not black, and not in great condition although it did have the authenticity card and original box and receipt.I also favorited it and waited for a price reduction. Rago fixed the worn corners, got rid of some pen marks, and redyed it. I know probably dumb to spend so much on a bag, please don’t judge me! I love it and I will have it forever.
Chanel bag
Actually, now that you describe it, I am impressed at your smart luxury purchase and repair that sounds like you got a wonderful bag at a huge discount.
I judge you as being smart, savvy and still enjoying the finer things in life. And you likely truly appreciate them.
Senior Attorney
Haha glad you enjoyed it!
Wearing/not wearing masks at co-op board interview
My spouse and I had our offer on a co-op apartment accepted, and have an interview with the board scheduled for next Friday. We have been pretty cautious about indoor activities due to Delta’s transmissibility, and the prospect of being in a room with a number of strangers is slightly alarming to me. I want to wear a mask, but also acknowledge that interviewing in a mask could be very strange, especially if the board isn’t wearing them.
Do you think it’s alright to wear a mask even if the board isn’t, and just say something like “I hope you don’t mind if I wear a mask, it gives me peace of mind”, or should I follow the lead of the board, if they are not wearing masks? All thoughts appreciated.
Anonymous
OF COURSE you can wear a mask and you should absolutely NOT give anyone a window to say “hey, I do mind actually.” Just wear the mask. Do not mention it, do not apologize for it, and do not take it off just because others do. This isn’t the first month of the pandemic – no one is going to be surprised or alarmed by a mask.
Cat
I would wear one, hands down. I might take it off for just a second to smile and say hello, and then put it right back on.
Anonymous
I would ask for it to be by Zoom.
Wearing/not wearing masks at co-op board interview
Unfortunately they are not doing virtual interviews anymore. Apparently they were earlier in the pandemic, but have since changed their procedure (or reverted to their usual procedure, I suppose).
Anon
Does your realtor know what the board is like, and what the masking requirements in the building have been? The latter should tell you a lot about the board’s attitude.
I would wear a mask anyway, and no say anything about it. I’ve been wearing a mask even in situations where people had told me to feel free to take it off, I just say, no thank you I prefer to wear one.
Anonymous
Is this in NYC? If so I think you will be fine wearing a mask.
Blueberries
I would not want to live in a building with people who looked down on wearing masks at this stage of the pandemic. Frankly, I would be alarmed if my prospective future neighbors weren’t wearing masks at this meeting.
anon
this.
Senior Attorney
Agree.
No Face
When I want to wear one, I just wear one and say nothing.
Anonymous
In our SF building, we have to wear masks in the common areas. So showing up in a mask would be expected.
Anon
On one hand, being in a marriage wherein the gardening sucks is awful. Three years in and it just eats away at me. There is no recourse: my husband either thinks it isn’t a problem or if he does understand how bad it is, he’s so ego hurt that he avoids the whole thing. Counseling was actively counterproductive.
Cheating isn’t an option, but, as much as I live my husband, I will probably leave him over this.
Anon
Nesting fail – meant to reply to the above thread.,
No Face
That sounds hard. Your husband is being selfish by not addressing this head on. Does he realize that this issue is a big enough deal to end the marriage altogether? Maybe find a counselor who specializes in s*x issues?
Anon
He will not understand until the moving truck backs into the driveway, at which point, he will understand all too well.
We are both religious and each other’s first, and a lot of my problem is that DH is now basically a walking advertisement for not going that route.
The specialist counselor was actively counterproductive. He (counselor) really didn’t dive into issues on my husband’s end, just my end (childhood trauma). Yet H admitted to me, very recently, that he has not really been trying to get me to reach climax, just trying to, I dunno, do whatever and hope that it magically brings me pleasure. This, no matter how much I expressed that it hurts me, emotionally, to never have had that experience.
Basic things that were never covered in a year of counseling:
*Mutual pleasure isn’t an optional extra – it’s fundamental to our marriage
*DH needs to learn how my body works
*Pain isn’t okay and DH needs to understand that if something hurts me, he needs to stop doing it
But the counselor did suggest that if intercourse isn’t doing it for me, I can go down on DH! That’s when I terminated the counseling relationship.
So yeah, it rips me apart on a regular basis and… it’s really amazing how being completely passive about the physical aspect of a relationship is so toxic.
Would I cheat? No. Am I planning a divorce? Yeah.
Anon
Your counselor sounds like someone who needs to lose his license, stat.
pugsnbourbon
+1. I hope you are able to find a different therapist to see solo.
Anon
Sounds like a religious counselor, not a licensed therapist.
Anonymous
So, I am in a similar situation, not necessarily the s_x issue, but the religious issue. Can you help me understand how you came to the conclusion, based on your religious experience, that divorce it ok in this situation? I don’t mean to say in any way that your decision is wrong, I am truly interested in how to figure this out as a Christian. If you are of a different religion, I’d also be interested to find out how you have dealt with the divorce issue.
Anon
Because my marriage is starting to make me doubt God’s love for humanity. The one-sidedness of and alienation resulting from the “intimate” physical relationship is… it’s terrifying to believe that it is reflective of God’s love for us and that is what heaven will be like.
No Face
I would say your husband’s self-centeredness is not a reflection of God’s love. He is basically failing as a husband; he is not putting your interests above his own at any point.
LaurenB
Plenty of regular everyday Christians get divorced – you know, Presbyterian, Methodist, Lutheran, Episcopalian, etc. Your kind of Christian isn’t the only type.
anon
So I was always taught that Jesus’ statements about divorce were made in the context of a societal situation where men had an almost unfettered ability to divorce their wives at will, and that those women were essentially left without economic resources following a divorce – that basically he was speaking against divorce undertaken lightly for the purpose of satisfying selfish desires, and the resulting injustice for divorced women. But I don’t come from a tradition that reads the Bible literally.
LaurenB
Something hurts you and he doesn’t think he needs to stop it? Good grief, is this like the series Unorthodox? What godforsaken religion produces men who disregard a partner’s physical pain?
Anonymous
I’m not the person you’re responding to but I’ve dealt with similar issues in my marriage. Talking about it with him makes it worse. It makes him feel emasculated/embarrassed/whatever and then he withdraws even more. Then it becomes a Thing and every time I touch him he freezes up. Fortunately (?) we were long distance for a while because of work and Covid and that physical distance really helped us. He was more affectionate when we would see each other after a long separation. That meant I wasn’t the one to always have to initiate, and get turned down, and for me to feel rejected and him to withdraw – that whole cycle of hurt feelings that put so much strain on us. My advice would be to back off completely for a minimum of 30 days, maybe more like 60. Not in a cold way but treat him like you would a close friend or a first date. Give him space to work through his stuff and come back to you.
Anonymous
Never mind I see now from her follow up post that her issues are different than mine. Sorry you’re dealing with this.
Anonymous
You are doing the right thing. You deserve more.
Dumb Tailoring Question
I love getting t-shirts from events or artists (or fundraisers!) I love, but they are often boxy (fitted at chest/shoulders) and too long–there’s too much fabric to tuck into my jeans (I prefer high-rise Madewell-style jeans), so I’ve thought about taking all of my newer tees to the tailor and having them turned into longer crop tops. I assume this is a thing someone with a sewing machines and chops can do, right?
I love getting all these shirts that are so fun, but hate that they just do not fit in flattering ways (bustier human, so a smaller size doesn’t fix problem).
Anon
So you just want to hem them, meaning shorten the bottom portion? That’s quite easy and any dry cleaner can do it. Just have a plan for the length you want — either measure it out at home or just think it through before you go in.
Yes
Yep, just hemming them!
PolyD
Wardrobe Oxygen had a piece this week on her blog about how she alters tee shirts herself. It’s mostly pretty simple fixes – cutting off the collar to make a more flattering neckline, cutting sleeves – but that might be a good place to start.
PolyD
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Wardrobe Oxygen had a piece this week on her blog about how she alters tees herself. It’s mostly pretty simple fixes – cutting off the neck edge to make a more flattering neckline, cutting sleeves – but that might be a good place to start.
Testing to avoid moderation.
Anonymous
You don’t need to hem t-shirt fabric, you just need to cut it a bit longer than you want it to end up because it will roll after washing. When you cut through a seam you do need to tack it down so the seam doesn’t separate. I just sew over each seam a few times with the machine.
Curious
I was coming here to say this :). It was a fun piece, reminded me of how we cut up shirts in high school.
Coach Laura
PolyD thanks, this is a great resource.
Anon
My niece before she was old enough to get a part time retail job made a killing buying tees like yours at thrift shops, cutting them to be cropped (no hem) and selling them on depop.
So if you have one that you feel you can experiment on (and no big loss if you don’t like it) maybe try just taking a pair of scissors to it. This way you can also figure out little by little what length you’re ultimately looking for.
Anonymous
My wonderfully well dressed guy friends at work used to have everything tailored, including plain white tees. They said the tailor was happy for the work.
Anonymous
Try the side ruching trick!
Take a needle and thread, and do a simple stitch at one side at the bottom and up to you waist. Take hold of start and end of thread and pull and ruche the side, tie a knot or fasten properly.
You’ll see that if one side is ruched and shows your waist, the over all effect is less boxy.
Half-tuck is also your friend.
If the sleeves are just that tiny bit too low (aka mid-full-bust), roll the sleeves twice and you’ll have a terrific fit. Stitch if you want, iron if you want, or just roll every time you wear.
Anom
Wow, those pants are high waisted!
Anone
Gift for an assistant whose husband was just hospitalized for emergency heart surgery in another country? Her husband travels back and forth between here and the other country for business. He had a known heart condition, but they were hoping to do the surgery in December, when my assistant planned to take time off to be with him. The situation became more dire and they need to operate now. My assistant does not have definite plans to travel there anytime soon. She has two adult sons, FWIW. Since she’s not directly providing care for him and he won’t be here, I am sort of at a loss on what kind of gift to give.
Anonymous
Flowers. Nice coffee or tea if she drinks it.
Peanut
Did anyone see the story “Overemployed” in the Wall Street Journal? Anyone know someone who did this? Of course, very tricky and impossible in some industries while possible in others. https://www.wsj.com/articles/these-people-who-work-from-home-have-a-secret-they-have-two-jobs-11628866529?page=1
https://www.businessinsider.com/two-jobs-overemployed-website-discord-2021-8
Anon
I had not seen that and I am fascinated. I go through slow and busy times at my job but I have never had a job where I only had “3-10 hours of work” every week consistently, where I could be like, “sure, let me get another full-time job on top of the one I already have.” I wonder about companies that have people working that little but don’t seem to have an awareness of it? That seems like an easy situation to analyze and redistribute job duties or collapse a position.
There are so many ways that situation could go awry, I am just amazed at the moxie some folks have in even attempting it. Good for them but I hope this does not become another reason to get rid of permanent WFH as some of us do it, love it and are very successful at it.
Anon
i did see the story. went to college with the author, but don’t know anyone doing that
Anon
I don’t think this is actually a thing. I think the author is forgetting that people on the internet like to boast about stuff they haven’t actually done.
To me, this is similar to people who claim to retire at 30. Like yes, maybe a handful are able to do it, and likely a good portion of those have other resources they aren’t disclosing, but the vast majority of people who claim to have done it are just posting aspirationally.
Most of the people claimed to make $200k/year/job, which seems unlikely to be the kind of jobs where you can “coast” and “just keep meetings to a minimum.”
Sometimes journalists forget you can’t believe everything you read on the internet, even if you “interview” a user of a niche website.
A
I know one person who kind of sort of did this for a short period of time ( I think it was like six weeks). This was a few years ago, so nothing COVID related about it. She’s always worked remotely, and basically a current job that she was leaving and a new job overlapped for a period of time. The current job she was leaving lost some clients (part of why she was leaving) so her workflow dried up considerably. Her husband is an employment lawyer and read through her employment contracts and non competes and disclosure requirements etc. for both companies. There wasn’t a conflict (which was a surprise to us all). So, for maybe 6 weeks she had two jobs. It did then, and still does, make me feel a bit icky that she did this, because it just doesn’t seem right.
anon
Talk to me about coping with embarrassment and shame. I lost my job this week, that I had only had for a few months after I was let go from my job before that earlier this year. The underlying cause is I’ve been dealing with really debilitating depression for the last ~2 years that is severely impacting my ability to perform at work. Before this depression I was a star performer (I suspect I was also depressed back then but more high-functioning). Anyway, my overwhelming feeling about the situation is embarrassment and shame. I was really open with my friends and family about the initial job I lost, I’m dreading telling them about the second. I know I don’t NEED to tell anyone, but I don’t like secrets. The other thing is when I opened up about my depression in the past it didn’t go over well, my Boomer generation family members do NOT understand mental health at all.
Blueberries
I’m sorry, this sounds really tough. Your job is not who you are, it’s a thing you do. Poor health is not a moral failing.
If it helps, I don’t look down on friends who can’t work because their health won’t let them, regardless of what kind of health problem it is. On the contrary, I admire people who pursue necessary treatment and take the time they need.
OP
Forgot to mention, I’m working really hard to treat my depression. CBT therapy, meds, mindfulness, exercise, diet… all the things. It’s definitely slowly improving, but I’ve got a ways to go. Open to any and all advice on this front too.
Anon
For me, I’ve found that some anti-depressants make me really unable to tolerate even one alcoholic drink, to the point where I have a mental (not physical) “hangover” of low mood for the next 36 hours. Don’t drink if you can help it. It really is a depressant.
Also for me, it never takes 4-6 weeks or whatever it is they say for an anti-depressant to start working. It’s working within the first couple weeks or it’s not gonna. Don’t be afraid to go back to your doctor and say you’re not feeling a difference. I know for me I feel embarrassed that a drug isn’t working, because they want/expect it to work – and heck knows I do! – but it might work at first or it might not work enough – just be open with your doctor. It’s ok to ask for more “firepower.”
No Face
That stinks. You have my permission to not discuss the issue at all with people who did not respond in a helpful way last time. Maybe ghost them for a while and focus on spending meaningful time with people who understand and support your mental health journey.
Even without pre-existing mental health issues, this has been a very difficult time for many people for many people. Some of us are just lucky in having roles where our inability to perform to our pre-pandemic standards does not result being let go. (Ahem, me so far).
AnonForThis
Sorry for the essay, but I can relate so hard! Hopefully some of this helps.
I started graduate school that I’d been working towards for 10 years in 2018, but I struggled academically (after having always been a super high performer) and had to take a leave of absence and restart the curriculum in 2019. Then, after I restarted, I eventually failed out earlier this year. My depression and mental health played a HUGE role in all of that, greatly impacting, well, everything.
Like you said, lots of feelings of shame and embarrassment both by myself and when talking with others. For most conversations, I’ve found a script to be helpful: “it just wasn’t working out,” said in such a way that it pretty clearly closes the discussion. If there are people that I want to be more open to, I can be, but that’s my go-to line. It’ll be hard to let people know, but if you want people to stick around in your life they’ll eventually have to find out and letting them know quickly bypasses the whole “but why were you keeping it a secret?”
It’s also important to do the work and be able to move forward. That is, continuing do the work to figure out what went wrong and how your depression can be treated and mitigated in the future (easier said than done, I know), but also realizing that dwelling on the shame and embarrassment just makes the depression worse and is going to prevent you from moving forward. Evenings when I’m trying the fall asleep are the worst times for me, personally, but visualizations and other therapy techniques have been somewhat helpful.
And the most important part: having people you can freely talk to about this and who will accept you for where you are. A therapist is supposed to always show “unconditional positive regard” and not be judgemental, but help you accept what happened and figure out how to help you move forward (not all therapists are like that, I know, but find one that is). If you have a supportive partner, they might be able to help, as well as friends, but you need to be around people who are supportive, not judgemental. 100% agree with NoFace “You have my permission to not discuss the issue at all with people who did not respond in a helpful way last time. Maybe ghost them for a while and focus on spending meaningful time with people who understand and support your mental health journey.”
One thing that helped me was asking my dad (who is very supportive) to have that first conversation with his siblings (not supportive) letting them know what was going on and that it was not up for discussion. YMMV based on family dynamics, of course, but I found that first conversation updating people to be the hardest, so this was one thing that helped me.
Sorry for the ramble, but I hope you are able to find healing and peace, and move forward to a wonderfully happy life!!!
Senior Attorney
You know, you can tell people “it turned out not to be a good fit and staying turned out not to be a realistic option,” and that would be true.
Hugs from this Boomer who totally understands mental health!
Senior Attorney
AnonForThis puts it even better: “It just wasn’t working out” in a tone that does not invite follow up discussion.
Anonymous
Hugs, so many hugs. You are not alone. My husband basically flamed out of his college teaching career due to depression. He is now happily employed as a high school teacher, making about the same amount of money and with better benefits. I’ve been lucky that my depression responded fairly quickly to medication and also conveniently arrived when I was in school, but I could have been there too. If you lost your job due to an injury or other kind of illness, would you feel embarrassed? What if you had schizophrenia or another mental illness? Would you judge a friend for this? You are worth more than your ability to perform. You have intrinsic value as a person.
Re: treatment – be sure your doctor understands how much this is impacting your life (e.g. your job). It’s possible that they may need to be more aggressive with the medication. It is really common for depression to be undermedicated, especially if you are working with a primary care provider rather than a psychologist.
Other ideas to consider – I’ve found DBSA support groups helpful in the past. You would be with a group of people all struggling with the same thing, which can help put your problems in perspective.
OP
Thanks Senior Attorney. For the record I did not mean Boomer in a derogatory way! Just that there seems to be a generational stigma with mental health (or maybe that just my parents…)