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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Happy Tuesday! What did everyone get during Cyber Monday sales? (One friend emailed me a screenshot of her buying a $150 dress at Anthro for $15, so I think she might win the day.) For today's featured work outfit, I like this fun dress for a desk to dinner look — paired with a classic set of pearls, simple pumps, and a blazer for the day it's totally workwear appropriate, but for night, add a clutch, some sparkly, dangly earrings, and fun heels, and out you go. It's $198 at Bloomingdale's. FRENCH CONNECTION Fast Nadine Stretch Dress Here's a few more affordable options (Nordstrom Rack, Neiman Marcus, Amazon), and here's a plus-size option at Nordstrom. Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail [email protected]. Psst: Staples is offering 20% off iTunes gift cards. (L-all)Sales of note for 8.30.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
- Boden – 20% off
- Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
- Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
- Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
- Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
- White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale
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good morning
This is a beautiful dress! I love the neckline, and it looks like it could totally be a great LBD for parties.
Happy rainy December! It’s pouring down rain here, and I am feeling uninspired in my outfit today: gray suiting separate trousers, pink button-up & maroon logo cardi.
What is your favorite thing about the holidays now that you’re an adult?
For me–it’s revisiting the excitement through my kids’ eyes. We put up the tree yesterday, but didn’t get a chance to decorate. Of course, the kids woke up early for school today, and before anyone even had breakfast, they wanted to put the “ordamets” on the tree.
I am also very much looking forward to this christmas in particular, as my husband and I have both come entirely into the faith after eschewing it for all of our previous lives. We (he, leading the way) found a church, and I’m excited about celebrating in a church again (it didn’t have meaning, when I was a kid, though we attended church on the regular growing up). I’m trying to find a nativity that is meaningful to our family, something that we’ll be proud of, and want to pass down. I’m excited about these things.
Wildkitten
This isn’t necessarily something you’d want to pass down, but you might find it fun depending on how old your kids are: http://www.starfromafar.com/
good morning
I saw that the other day, and didn’t get a chance to look into it! What a neat idea. They look like the Melissa & Doug nativity I saw the other day, which, while not “heirloom”, is still a nice, quality piece, and over time, could be.
Little People
We have the Little People nativity and it is not high art but it is used an awful lot (not just at Christmas). And it is indestructable.
KateMiddletown
+1 – the Little People Disney Princesses and Dwarfs found their way into the nativity scene this year.
Wildkitten
This is so cute I want it and I don’t even have kids.
Little People
It comes with an impossibly large black and white cat that makes no sense and is the same size as the shepherds. We all joke about the Holy Land cat. You can put any figure on top of the manger (including the cat) and if you press down on the peg, it plays Away in a Manger and lights up. We have the Little People Irish dancers in our nativity also.
hoola hoopa
It’s a sheep dog, not a cat. LOL at Holy Land Cat :)
We laugh because it’s so clearly an English sheepdog, which I’m 99% certain weren’t used by shepherds in Bethlehem in the year of Jesus’ birth. So it’s still silly.
hoola hoopa
+1000 to the LP nativity! We aren’t a religious family (it was gifted by a religious relative), but it’s still a HUGE win in our house with kids of all ages. …I might rearrange it occasionally, too.
It’s not really what you’re looking for by ‘heirloom’, but my husband and I were just talking today about how it’s definitely one of the few things we’ll hold onto for future grandchildren.
Anonymous
We have the LP Nativity, too. My son refers to it as the “Jesus festival.” Poor religious training and the light at the top are to blame. ;)
Maudie Atkinson
We’re a Fontanini family. My mom has a massive collection, and every year, my brother and I each got to pick out a piece to add. They’re great for kids, too, because they’re made of resin and therefore not fragile.
mascot
We also have a Fontanini set. Well made and lots of options. Try Amazon, Ebay or local religious stores to find pieces. Some of the prices on the web are really high so shop around. (we tend to stock up on fancy ornaments and nativity pieces in the post-Christmas sales)
DisenchantedinDC
My mom hand-painted a nativity before I was born. My parents are divorced now and I’m not religious… but I want that.
NOLA
My ex and I were given a hand-painted nativity when we were married. I gave it to him in the divorce because he was still going to be friends with the people who gave it to us, but I am absolutely certain he’s never displayed it. His new wife isn’t religious at all. One of the few things I wish I’d kept.
Lyssa
I realize that this is a completely personal question, so feel free to ignore, but if you wouldn’t mind sharing, would you tell a bit about how you came into your faith? It’s something that’s been on my mind a bit lately.
good morning
Without too much detail, husband calls himself a “recovering catholic” and I was raised episcopalian. I never really found faith or the meaning of faith in growing up, though felt (and still feel) moral obligations (for lack of a better word) and personal spirituality. My church was not a church of “feeling” or “living” it was more about the ritual. My parents didn’t practice god-faithful lives at home, god was not central to our upbringing–we just went to church. I believe fully in science, but I am beginning to see that I cannot control all aspects of our life, and there is something greater out there–I’ve always believed that. I was a counselor at an episcopal church camp years ago, and the pastor there described a more Deist ideology of God the Watch-maker. She said that he set everything up, and stepped away, allowing us to care for the earth that he had made. I embodied this for a long time, but as I think about it today, that’s not a very faithful way of life–it kind of supposes that we’re on our own.
Most recently, through a number of psych/mental issues, DH and I attended a seminar designed to confront the mental aspect of our lives. We work/exist in an industry/world that sees the worst of the worst, and we carry the burdens of our work with us, often in an unhealthy way. The seminar was held at a church camp, though it is non-denominational, but founded by religious clergy and leaders of our industry. DH made the most amazing transformation–coming out of the seminar, he was /is an entirely different person. He’s not professing being saved per se, but the seminar gave him tools to deal with the psych issue that was clouding his entire perspective, and he has since professed his faith to seemingly unlikely, but in the end, very fitting people.
At the seminar, there we found lots of like-minded people who had already been established in their faith, and they became signs for us. There were signs all around. After attending this seminar, DH and I both decided that it was our calling/is our calling to continue to help the others in our industry to deal with the same issues. We attended church that is pastored by one of those founding members, on occasion this summer, and every time we went, the message was entirely, creepily, exactly what we needed to hear. There were other signs as well–my oldest son (7), out of a clear blue sky, designed & cut out a cross with circle like you’d see on a steeple. He said it was the “thing at the top of the church”, and then went on to write on the circle: “I believe in god”. He had attended church with us on occasion, but he’d never made any kind of statement of faith before.
For example: another sign–during the seminar, there was a prayer session one evening. I told DH I wanted to go, to see if I could find some comfort in the words of my friends, and he tagged along somewhat begrudgingly. One of the pastors had a loaf of bread, and among the dozen or so of us in the room, he said to “tear off a piece of bread that represents your hunger for God, and pass it to the next person who needs it” I ended up receiving the loaf from the pastor of our church, 3/4 of the way through the exercise, and try though I did to tear a small piece, the piece that ended up breaking off was huge. Unintentionally huge. The parable that was read during our first trip to church following the seminar was the parable of our entire lives.
In the end, the signs we were seeing just kept coming, louder and bolder, and we just couldn’t ignore them. We continue to go to church (I think we’re up to 3 consecutive weeks, and probably a dozen or so total attendances since early summer), and again, the message always hits home. The pastor has a way of delivering the message in a way that is easy for us to hear. We just made a conscious decision to put our faith in god, to live our lives with him working through us, and trying to feel out the path that he has chosen for us.
KateMiddletown
Hey all – Slate’s Mom and Dad are Fighting podcast just touched on this topic. Adults coming back into some form of religion after becoming parents. I really enjoyed this last episode.
good morning
Oddly, our finding faith really didn’t have anything to do with our kids, it was more about us and our own personal life hang-ups. But, as an aside/side benefit, I am feeling much better about raising our kids in a god-centered family, than one that has little or no grounding. I will have to listen to this podcast–thanks for pointing it out.
Lyssa
It was interesting. I was thinking of trying to start a thread (maybe at the mom’s site) to discuss the article that it was based around, but hadn’t gotten around to it and was concerned about the potential contentiousness of the issue. Thanks for your response, good morning!
Anon
I am the opposite. I was a religious person it is liberating to let go of the idea of the God/miracles. I am agnostic at best. My future children will just decide for themselves if they want to believe in God or not. Given that, I am learning more about Buddhism and I agree with most of what it teaches and find it very powerful and freeing.
However, I do agree that going to Church will give you a sense of belonging to a community and life feels less lonely.
Runner 5
I’m also experiencing coming into faith. I’ve found a lovely church which makes meverything feel welcomed and supported. I’m still not entirely decided on the miracles bit but I really love the learning how to be a good person bit, and I really love that having faith makes me worry less about things that I can’t change.
Basically trash
I don’t have kids yet, but I have embraced the joy of giving. Don’t get me wrong, getting presents is great, although as an adult it’s tough for me to figure out what I want, but think it’s a lot of fun getting things for the people I care about and making them happy.
I also like all the pretty, shiny decorations. And the food!
Senior Attorney
I used to do an Advent wreath and light the candles with my son when he was little and we were still churchgoers.
And on a secular note, in our house when Santa comes, one of the things he does is hang candy canes all over the Christmas tree.
Anon
We are firmly non religious but make a big deal out of Christmas anyway. It’s the tradition both my husband and I were raised with so we are also raising our kids with it. Most of what we like about it arises from pagan traditions anyway.
I have a set of Spode Christmas dishes. When I put away the thanksgiving China, I also put away our everyday dishes and bring out the Spode. We will eat exclusively on those dishes until the new year. My kids really look forward to this.
We also decorate quite a bit. We have boxes of Christmas decorations in the attic that we brought down over the weekend. We decorate the tree together, but the non ornament decor is usually placed around the house by my kids. Favorite items are those from my husband’s childhood. None from my childhood – we didn’t have many. This has imprinted on me the need to have some special Christmas items to pass to my kids to share with their eventual families.
good morning
This is how we operated through our married life–celebrate & make a big deal of Christmas & the aspect of giving. I am excited to add the other dimensions of the faith into our celebration, but I feel as non-religious folk in our previous life, we were doing it pretty well. We always give to food banks, we always pitch in during the school supply drives, and we make sure to include the kids in it, so that they understand and appreciate the gift of giving. We have a lot, and there are tons of folks in our local community who do not. I made it my goal to get the kids involved in giving locally, back to our community.
We have a pagan christmas tree, and it’s been entirely decorated with secular ornaments–I don’t expect that this year will be any different–just adding the nativity. We evolved an evening dinnertime tradition that we started this year, by asking the kids the best thing of the day. Then, just a few weeks ago, DH asked the kids to say grace at dinner. They love doing it. Right now, at 5 and 7, it’s very basic, “thanks for the food, our family and friends” from the kids. DH and I will sometimes throw in something more specific, like one evening when we went to friends’ house, we were thankful for those particular friends, sharing their food and home with us.
Wildkitten
I love the idea of saying something you are grateful for. I read about it in the new Gratitude book with the blue cover, about a family where the kids are all off to college and they still text what they are grateful for every day.
brokentoe
I hope this isn’t too late, but my former SIL had a lovely tradition they celebrated within their family that I thought was particularly meaningful amongst all the traditional Christmas trappings. Before everyone sat down to Christmas dinner, they brought out a birthday cake that had been made for baby Jesus and sang “Happy Birthday” to him. It was something even the youngest children understood and brought home the focus – even just for those few moments – on the reason for the day.
holidays
I am not a religious person. We went to a Unitarian church when I was a young child, but stopped as we got older. There are holiday traditions I really enjoy, and most are filled with family and bringing people together.
I detest the endless Xmas carols heard everywhere, but love the Charlie Brown Xmas jazz album. Strangely, I love classical music traditions including the seasonal Bach cantatas, Corelli’s Xmas concerto, and I used to perform in Handel’s Messiah in a beautiful church every year. My most meaningful Xmas experience was visiting the local nursing home on Xmas eve and walking room to room and playing a favorite Xmas carol to each resident in their room on my violin. Many tears that day…
I love the handmade ornaments that fill the tree instead of the store bought ones. When we were children, we made them every year, every one was saved, and the young generation continues this tradition. Most are just paper cut outs or scribbles, but many are charming they are precious…. each with the age/name of the child written on the back. I love the food traditions, which are often ethnic and once a year treats. And I love giving a present to someone I care about.
But I hate receiving gifts. My parents brought us up with much guilt and insecurity about money. So I feel a lot of shame about receiving any gift or celebration for myself. It makes me sad I inherited this… But fortunately I still love to give.
hoola hoopa
I’m a weirdo and love wrapping gifts. This year my older kids have been helping – truly helping, not “helping” – and it’s been so much fun to wrap together.
I also look forward to making Christmas ornaments with the kids for their teachers, and opening the advent calendars to see what shape the chocolate is (even though I don’t get the candy). I also probably expose my children to way more hot cocoa and holiday specials than is healthy :P
Anon0321
Atheist (grew up Catholic) and married to a semi religious conservative Jew- I love everything about Christmas and make no apologies for it. Fwiw I also celebrate Chanukah with the same vigor. Some of my favorite traditions – cutting down a fresh Christmas tree and donating one Chanukah night gift for each of us to a charity we support. I also love the music and extra focus on family time (both sides)- and now that we have a new born I’m doubly excited this year. :)
anon for this
Oh, wow, I want that Tahari option. and I have a Nordstrom gift card burning a hole in my pocket.
Thoughts on this: I accepted a contingent job offer now several months ago. The security process has been brutal. (note: I already work for the government and have a full clearance adjudicated by my agency) This is transitioning to a less-secure, non-government but tangent job. My investigator seems to not really care, was almost an hour late to my initial appointment, and he keeps asking me to be available in the middle of the work day for continuing appointments. I am still employed and billable on a client site so it’s not like I can just peace out whenever and make it up at night, so this is really hard.
All my interaction post-interview, to this point, has been with HR (very little) and mostly security. I was really excited about this position because it’s a raise, an improvement in commute and seemed like a great next step and a challenging and exciting opportunity. But my current-job work environment has improved a lot due to staffing changes and I am considering just asking for a raise from my current company instead because I am so frustrated with this process.
Thoughts? I was also thinking about calling and asking to talk to the hiring manager at the new position and finding out if this is par for the course, etc. I assume considering it’s a couple months later, they have cut loose the other candidates.
I want to make the best decision here and it is really challenging my idea of what that is. I turned down a job offer earlier this year because it seemed like a bad culture fit, and I was excited about this one when it happened…
anon a mouse
It’s not unusual for an investigator to need several appointments with you, but the punctuality would concern me. You can request, when the investigator calls to set something up, that you get a very early or a very late appointment, or over lunch. Make it clear that you have conflicts before and after and if he is late you’ll need to reschedule.
It’s probably worth a call to the hiring manager just to inquire about process, especially if you already have a clearance, you can contrast this process with that one. But I wouldn’t throw out an opportunity just because the clearance process is taking so long – that is outsourced to a different agency and likely is not a reflection on any specific aspect of your new job.
Anonymous
It sounds like you are applying for a contractor job with a different agency or the same agency with a different clearance, right? The process you described (aside from lateness) is normal and it really has nothing to do with your employer. Agencies each have their own processes and don’t share information, so if you have some kind of “clearance” from a civil agency it will be different than getting one from the DoD, and those will vary depending on which ones you are getting. The interview process you described sounds like the D0D and it’s par for the course – they will do a few interviews and at least one where they kind of show up and put you on the spot to talk to you and ask you find people to interview that day. They may do more depending on your risk factors, like if you are from an immigrant family. If you can’t randomly meet in the middle of the day don’t worry about it or stress, just tell the investigator when you can and feel free to ask the investigator about the process. They’re used to it and will wait around or reschedule – probably why the person was late that one day, actually. Honestly it sounds like you’re pretty far through it, so just relax and stop worrying about it. It’ll be fine. And if you don’t need a poly, you’re probably nearly done.
anon for this
Actually, I have a DoD clearance right now! I am going to what is the equivalent of a state/local agency. I also have a CBP background check, which I guess is kind of moot.
The investigator is pretty inflexible – very different from my OPM experiences (own investigation + having been a reference on multiple SF-86s). The time he was late he was just sitting in his office, where I was meeting him. And when I say middle of the day, I mean, they give me a few hours of a time frame that is literally right in the middle of my duty day to meet at THEIR office, which is ~45 minutes with traffic from my current location. I think asking if I can come in before my normal workday is totally reasonable, but I am wondering if I will need senior management intervention to get that to happen.
Anonymous
Yikes. I would ask your new manager for tips about what to expect.
Blonde Lawyer
Since you already have clearance, they may be assuming you have to disclose your job hunt to your current employer so leaving during the work day is less of a problem. I know that certain clearance jobs require some disclosure about job apps/interviews. Maybe if you give them a heads up that you aren’t required to disclose and are trying to keep it quiet they will be more accommodating.
Cream Tea
That Tahari dress is incredible – can anyone speak to the sizing? TTS?
BeenThatGuy
Tahari fits me true to size. I swear a size 12 and it’s always cut perfectly (I would call my body proportionately athletic/curvy)
AIMS
I have it. I’m 5’4-ish and probably it’s a teensy bit off on proportions (like the shoulder to bust area could be narrowed, etc.), and even though I’m fairly busty, it’s a bit loose on top (but was great at about 5-6 mos. pregnant). If I sized down to have a better fit up top, it would have been too va va voom on the bottom. The fabric is pretty flexible. I’d say this Tahari brand is good if you’re a bit broader/wider in your chest/shoulders. I’m an F cup but have narrow frame/shoulders and find the fit is always a bit off w/o alterations.
Cream Tea
Hmmm I’m smaller on the top than the bottom so this may not work for me. Thanks for the feedback!
Anonymous
I have this exact dress. I have a petite and it is slightly longer than other petite dresses – usually petite tahari are about two inches above my knee and this is right to my knee. I am 5’2. I actually bought this dress 4 years ago and I still get compliments almost every time I wear it.
Shopaholic
I’m looking for what appears to be the holy grail of work bags. Leather, zip top, handle (or handles) long enough to fit over my shoulder. That’s pretty much it. I would prefer for it to be a mid-level designer, up to a maximum budget of $500 for the perfect bag. I’m not even fussy about color now. Any suggestions?
Thanks ladies!
Diana Barry
I want this too! My current winter bag (kate spade from outlet) is looking tired and peeling at the corners (it is purple leather).
Wildkitten
How long have you had it? I had a lot of problems with my Kate Spade purple leather bag yellowing and they gave me a gift card for the cost.
Diana Barry
Um, not sure – 3 years maybe? I thought the warranty/whatever on the outlet stuff wasn’t as good though so I hadn’t thought about bringing it back (plus I don’t have receipt).
Pretty Primadonna
Um, not sure – 3 years maybe? I thought the warranty/whatever on the outlet stuff wasn’t as good though so I hadn’t thought about bringing it back (plus I don’t have receipt).
Anonymous
I’ve never had any luck returning or getting credit for KS outlet bags that have worn out.
BB
I haven’t received it yet so can’t speak to quality, but I just bought the Lo and Sons Seville, which seems to match all of your criteria except maybe on designer.
Little People
I want this one, too.
Wildkitten
It’s on sale today.
BB
That’s why I bought one yesterday! :) Pretty excited as my Brookline is close to done at this point (3 very rough years). Love that they have the soft sleeve because my one complaint was going to be that it didn’t have the suitcase handle sleeve.
Anon
Knomo maddox! Mine is black and a workhorse.
Knomo is 25% off today.
anon-oh-no
I have a coach bag that fits this description, but its from a number of years ago. It may be a good place to try though.
DisenchantedinDC
I have a saffiano leather Kate Spade that is a workhorse, but I am lusting over a Dagne Dover.
Anonattorney
I looked for this for a while, and eventually settled on the Tumi Tegan Business Tote. The Viera Business Tote is also great. They have a couple more color options than what is shown online if you go into one of their stores. I got a beautiful mustard yellow color. They aren’t leather, but a bit more durable (in my opinion).
lost academic
Recently picked up a black leather one that’s good for all that at a Wilsons Leather outlet. I got it for about $90 since it was at the outlet. It zips, has feet, has a laptop sleeve inside, a couple other zipped larger compartments inside (and of course fully zips on top).
https://www.wilsonsleather.com/product/wilsons+leather+top-zip+executive+leather+tote.do?sortby=ourPicks&from=fn
I don’t use the shoulder strap, I use the regular handles, and it is great even very full over my shoulder.
Runner 5
Radley should have something to suit,
Anon
How much do you think where you went to school for undergrad affected where you are today?
I sacrificed a lot to go to a top 20 undergrad with a big name factor, and while I got a great education, I question whether it was worth the (insane) price tag. Curious to hear other stories.
Anonymous
While I love big cities, I also like my medium-sized city (and would like to be in a smaller place some day). I think if I had had gone to the School of My (Impressionable Teenaged Mind’s) Dreams, I’d have had to borrow every penny. That debt would have followed me and may have kept me in a sort of wage slavery some place that would have clipped my wings in terms of options. I went to the School of My Dreams (after my parents had had The Talk with me re what they could afford), which was a very well regarded State U. I went to Big City afterwards (with Dream School #1 grads) and maybe it limited me somewhat (the schools interviewing on campus were different), but not terribly much and an at Medium City now (where State U is much more of a plus, even though it’s one state over now, and Dream School would maybe be a burden — if you do something dumb, it’s “hey, look at Dream School grad doing something dumb”).
I think that another burden of going to Dream School is that you are supposed to change the world and do Great Things. That’s what everyone has heard there their whole lives! And yet, who really does that? At State U, I think they say that and yet they prepare you a bit more for the real world where you make a living and a life and are happy (and it is not unrealistic to think that your children and grandchildren may attend), and that is changing the world and doing Great Things, just with a different focus.
a.k.
There are so many variables that affect personal success, and in my view, undergrad degree is a very small piece of that puzzle. I went to a large midwestern state school and graduated with no debt, turning down a fancy NE private school and 6 figures in debt to do it. Worked my butt off in UG and landed a policy internship in DC, which turned into a job. After a couple of years, went to grad school on a full scholarship.
Sometimes I wonder how different my life would be if I’d gone to that fancy school for undergrad. I’d probably have a better network, but I’d also have eaten ramen for years. And when I looked at grad schools, I was comfortable with taking out some debt because I wasn’t entering with a load of previous debt (though I was fortunate that I could do it without loans).
I’ll never be in a field where I’ll make a mint, so the financial aspect really made a difference to my quality of life now. If I were in law or medicine or finance, I suppose I might feel differently.
Anonymous
I agree with most of this. I went to a large midwestern state school, graduated at the top of my class, and went on a full scholarship to a very good law school in New England. I absolutely made the right choice, and I now work in BigLaw with people who went to my dream school(s) and got to the same end point as me. Maybe my life would be different/better, maybe it wouldn’t. But you’ll have to pry my state school pride, my love for college sports, and memories of four of the best years of my life at a quarter of the cost of my dream school from my cold, dead hands.
Sewanee Alum
Basically zero.
I went to a fancy pants private liberal arts college that was around $36k per year by the time I graduated. I think it’s closer to 50k per year now, which makes me want to throw up, especially when I think of kids taking on that much debt for a liberal arts degree. I got some scholarships and grants, had a work study job, and beyond that was very fortunate to have parents and grandparents who paid the rest.
The education I received was amazing and I’m grateful for it every day.
How much did it prepare me to get a job? Basically not at all. I had to go back to “state school” (I now laugh at my idiotic youthful snobbery) to get the classes I needed to actually do something useful, which for me was becoming a CPA. All the networking I did, all the job prep, all the on-campus interviews and recruiting were through this state school, which had a ton of local ties. The professors at state-u were much more career-focused than the professors at private-u, who were just focused on scholarship.
So I don’t regret how it all panned out for me, but I would definitely advise my own child to think long and hard before taking on a lot of debt to get an education.
Anonymous
Preach!
I am finding (looking for stepkid now) that the top tier is private schools, out of state state U is about 2/3 to 1/2 of that (so a bargain, now that my jaw has gotten used to dropping at sticker price), and our state U (good if you want to go to a super-huge school, but tougher to find “college” sized state U here) is an outright steal. We are thinking of funding a pot and pushing transfer in 1-2 years if you hate state U (and take a lot of community college transferable credits in the summer), but at least try it.
Anon for this
While I definitely agree that a child should think long and hard about how much debt to take on for college (and probably should come to the conclusion that they shouldn’t take on any), I am a strong proponent of kids looking at schools of Sewanee’s size over a large state U. I just don’t think the answer should always be go to your state school. Maybe for some people it should be, and there’s no doubt it’s cheaper, but huge state schools can be good places to get lost for certain kids. I did not go to Sewanee, but I went to a small liberal arts school of approximately the same size and same reputation. I am the only one of my generation in my family to have graduated in 4 years and I was just simply “tracked” more than everyone else who went to the huge state schools (in several different states – northern, southern and CA).
Sarabeth
Yes. I teach at a similar school. Some kids will be fine wherever, but some students do really benefit from that kind of close attention. I definitely have kids in my classes that I suspect wouldn’t have made it beyond the first year of college at a more impersonal institution.
Anonymous
I went to a top ranked public university in my state (commonwealth :)), and I believe it is hugely responsible for my achieving what I’ve been able to achieve so far. I’ve worked very hard, both in college and afterwards (especially early on) but I believe my degree opened doors that “punched above my weight” (at least in my own mind. . .thanks Imposter Syndrome). I feel amazingly blessed that it came with a reasonable price tag.
Anonymous
If I didn’t go to your school, I went to one that is similar.
At jobs, I found that when the same employer went to many schools, it got the tippy top at Random U, the top quarter maybe from Flagship State U, and some random people at Private Selective U. So you could get to the same place regardless of school if you hussled (and maybe would have gone to Private U but $ was an issue), but the hurdles were higher and the Private U people had more uniform outcomes (so if you were a finance major, you had lots of people to go to Happy Hour with in Manhattan, but not the case for Random U people and in between for Flagship State U people). You don’t go to the same weddings (or you have to travel further). It’s a bit like being an insider and an outsider.
Wildkitten
100%. I came from very little, went to a super fancy school, and now I’m a pretty fancy adult. I hardly paid anything for undergrad though. Law School is what screwed me with loans.
Anon
I went to the large State University near my hometown and graduated with no debt. Then I applied to the only law school in my state and was accepted and graduated with manageable amount of debt. Because this is the only law school and we are a fairly small state and certainly a small legal community, I made connections there that helped me get my first job. I have ended up really loving this job and am still here 7 years later.
Bonnie
It didn’t. I went to a big state school because it was decent but cheap and I knew that I would be going to grad school.
DisenchantedinDC
I went to the largest state school in my state (so, in-state tuition), with a large alumni chapter in my current city (DC). The network has been helpful and got me my first job (and the person who helped with that is still a much-beloved mentor!). But it hasn’t been OMG CRAZY LIFE CHANGING helpful.
The biggest thing for me was probably my professors helping guide me to where I wanted to go, and in my field, my school had professors who had been working professionals for years before teaching. And an awesome, awesome advisor. So, yes, it definitely impacted where I am.
DisenchantedinDC
Oh, and to add – most of what I know and am good at doing, I learned on the job, and a little from my master’s degree. School was mostly just checking a box. I did it as quickly as I good and graduated early – 3 years on campus, one extra semester was spent interning and taking a few classes in DC.
Me too
It helped me in this odd way. I went to Harvard undergrad, goofed off a lot and got only mediocre grades. I got rejected from all of the top Ivy law schools and instead went to a well regarded but not T-20 law school. I then worked my butt off in said law school and have done extremely well for myself and I am so, so fortunate for my law school experience.
I believe the Harvard name helped me get in the door of prestigious law firms/prestigious federal judges who were perhaps not as impressed with my law school, but who assumed that I was “smart” because of my undergrad pedigree.
My law school grades/extra curriculars are leaps and bounds more impressive than my undergrad record but so many people continue to be impressed that I went to Harvard, even my grades there were very average.
Anonymous
Were your parents OK with how undergrad went with you? I now see this from the parent side and would really weep if I were funding this (but as a former undergrad: I totally get it and we are not so different, including the later-in-life hussle).
Me too
I certainly didn’t fail or anything even close to that. I was just a very average, not exceptional in any way student. They were fine with my undergrad performance, but were disappointed originally that I couldn’t get into a higher ranked law school (now no one cares after seeing how going to the lower ranked school–debt free due to a scholarship–paid off).
Also, Harvard and other top schools highly inflate grades so even though my grades were mediocre for Harvard, my GPA looked decent on a resume.
Also, my family had very limited financial means so I essentially went to Harvard tuition free. My parents are fine with how things turned out. But I have a lot of regret for how much I wasted my undergrad experience. I don’t things necessarily would have turned out that much different in terms of “success” (I still got the top law firms/top clerkships, etc.) but I do think I should have savored and taken advantage of all of the amazing opportunities an institution like Harvard offers its students.
me too!
I am late to the game on this, but I could have written this same post. How I wish I could go back and do it all again now that I would appreciate it more!
Anonymous
I went to two Ivy League institutions, and found that they differed in how much pull you could get from them based on how much effort they put into the alumni network. The jobs I got right out of both institutions I got through the schools. I would say they made a difference for me.
In House Counsel
I could’ve written a lot of what you wrote above — went to a HYP/MIT/Stanford for college, did OK but was not stellar like before and then attended a top 25 law school which has set me up very well for my career trajectory but almost always in my legal interviews, they reference my undergrad degree which has almost no value in my legal career beyond sounding fancy/name recognition :)
Anonymous
Same.
Not American
I went to one of the best schools in the world in my nation’s capital and I loved it. Most of my professors had made amazing policy or done life changing research and being around such inspiring people really kept me going. I took on one very small loan to do it which took a year to pay off. More than worth it.
College
For me it was life transforming.
I grew up in a very dysfunctional house. I dreamed of escaping for years, and worked hard to get there. My teachers were all very supportive, and encouraged me to think big. But my parents didn’t want this, and wanted me to stay close. I was very shy, very insecure, intimidated by everything and an anxious little mouse due to my abusive upbringing. But I was smart and pretty good overall at an assortment of things.
I got a full scholarship to the best private in-state school. But that was where my parents both went, it was too close to home, and I had to escape… I had to escape…
I got in to Stanford – my dream school. No merit/full scholarships there, unless you are on the football team etc…. But I qualified for a package of good grants, some loan, and I would need to work every summer and throughout college to raise as much $$ as possible for room/board. While I don’t remember this….. my parents said I refused to go to college if I couldn’t go to Stanford. I can’t imagine I had the nerve to say that. I think I was so terrified at the time that I have blocked out that stressful time as I tried to escape.
I went to Stanford.
It was utterly transforming for me. Maybe any college would have been…. But it definitely helped my mood to be somewhere where the sun was shining every. single. day. And where the rich kids and the “poor” kids (like me) wore the same uniform of a T-shirt and shorts every day. Where kids where athletes and scholars and artists and I wasn’t the lone smart girl anymore. And where nothing in my field of vision reminded me of home.
My CV looked amazing by the time I finished college because of the opportunities I had there. Of course, I worked hard. I got in to the best grad school/prof schools and had full scholarships to those. I’m sure it was easier to get these scholarship awards because of my CV than if I had gone to my v. good state school. But honestly, who knows….
BUT, I was fortunate that despite my upbringing, my parents were willing to contribute to college. If they were not, I would not have gone to Stanford as I would have been terrified to take on all of that expense myself. I paid for grad schools 100% myself with scholarships and assistantships. I would have never gone to a grad/professional school that I would have had to pay for myself with loans.
I was lucky.
Fellow cardinal
I’m so glad it worked out for you. I went to Stanford as well and I just had a very very ok experience. I think some of this was my own fault (I was very shy/insecure/really intimidated by so many smart people and had a local boyfriend who took up way too much of my time). I always feel a little sad when I hear about people raving about Stanford because I don’t feel that way at all about my undergrad experience. Fortunately, I had a very positive and fulfilling grad school experience and my allegiance is definitely more with my grad school.
Anonymous
Hugely. Attending Wellesley was life changing for me. The women’s college experience, the name recognition, and the alumnae network have all made a big impact on my friendships, network, and professional success.
anonjrassociate
Agree with this 100%, though I went to Smith. I could never quantify or put a price on what the women’s college experience (and amazing network) meant to me, and I am incredibly grateful that my parents could and did make it possible for me to attend my dream undergrad, with minimal loans and a very doable work study schedule.
Anonymous
I went to a very prestigious undergrad (H/Y/P/S/MIT type place). In a lot of ways I feel like it was a huge waste of money. I had a lot of fun socially, but I didn’t study enough, didn’t get great grades and it generally kind of ruined my academic self-esteem and my interest in school and learning (I still read fiction for pleasure but I was majoring in sciences and undergrad completely killed my enjoyment of all things science/tech). However, I know for a fact (because I was told by the people involved) that I got two huge things directly as a result of having this school on my resume: 1) my significant law school merit scholarship (which has made my life infinitely better as anyone with large law school debt knows) and 2) my first full-time Big Law job, when I was unemployed after being no-offered by my 2L summer place during the recession. So I owe a lot to that degree, even if I feel like I could have made much better use of my four years there.
Anonymous
That’s the thing I wrestle with as a parent: if we are paying for an education vs buying a door-opening name and alumni network. I hate this! It feels so consumerist: paying for a result (which you may not even get).
I have one degree like this and it totally bothers me and I feel no loyalty to the school. Our relationship is quid-pro-quo that it makes me a bit ill (and when I went there, it was with the intention of pouring my heart and soul into it and yet I am just a product that they push (and they push it well)).
If we go the State U route, I fear that I will get what I pay for.
Anonymous
I’m anon at 11:25. I do think there were benefits to me beyond the doors the degree opened. I was a very shy, nerdy kid in high school and although I’m sure I would have had more fun at State U than I did in high school, I loved college socially and I think it was great for me personally to have the experiences of having lots of friends, going to parties, dating, etc. I came out of my shell a lot and became a lot more confident in all aspects of my life other than academics (and doing very well in law school restored a lot of the academic confidence). And being surrounded by very smart, passionate people was really enjoyable and inspiring. But yeah, in general I think the $200K+ is more for the name on the resume and the networking opportunities than the actual education you get.
Meg March
I went to a top undergrad, and had a professor tell us on the first day of class, you’re not paying $50k a year to get suuuuuuch a better education than you’d get at your local state school or because you’re soooo much smarter. You’re paying $50k a year to hang out with other people who are going to do well in life.
opinion
Interesting and timely question. There was just an article published about this recently — somewhere — but I don’t remember where. The conclusion: students who were accepted — but did not attend — elite institutions were as professionally successful as those who attended elite institutions.
Basically, if you’re hard-working and talented, you will make opportunities for yourself wherever you go. I believe that.
Anonattorney
Pretty much this. I was accepted to an Ivy, but was too young/immature/foolish/shortsighted to take advantage of the opportunity and essentially flamed out after two years. I was in a very competitive and difficult program (sciences, not liberal arts) and it wasn’t for me. I took some time off and then ended up finishing undergrad at my state school. I graduated–literally–first in my class. I didn’t even realize that they tracked those things at large universities, but I guess they did? I got accepted to a decent law school on almost a full ride, graduated second in my class from said law school, and have been working in my chosen field since (bet-the-company business litigation).
BUT, I don’t work in a big market, and based on my undergrad degree and law school, I probably wouldn’t have been able to get a big-law job out of law school. I’m working at one of the most highly-reputable firms in my city and likely could transition that into a more prestigious job if I ever moved, but who knows? There are likely some very high-level doors that are closed to me because of my chosen educational institutions.
Wildkitten
They say this but I don’t think it would be true for me. At fancy school I was challenged by all of my peers and grew to be just as competent as them. At un-fancy school I wasn’t challenged and didn’t grow. (I transferred from un-fancy to fancy. Same price for each. Both private with lots of aid since I didn’t have money.)
opinion
You know, now that I think of it, I believe the article did state that students from low-income neighborhoods were the exception — for someone reason, kids from low-income areas benefit from prestigious schools more than others.
Wildkitten
The brand name gave me a leg up that I wouldn’t otherwise have had. I think rich kids have lots of other legs up and don’t benefit as much from yet another one. Just my theory…
Anon
Hope that’s true! I turned down a t-14 law school for a regional one in the market I wanted to be in. Some days I kick myself over it, but first year out I have a good job (not biglaw, but not biglaw hours either) and no debt. I hope I will be as professionally successful – but then I do wonder how exactly that is defined.
Amelia Bedelia
I am not sure whether I agree with this article. I am very happy where I am today (partner in a prestigious law firm that specializes in a niche field), and I would like to think I would have chosen this road regardless of where I attended university. That being said, I “fell” into this job after a number of years of struggle. I turned down a prestigious undergrad because of money. I graduated top of my class from a lesser school, but feel I was admitted into a lesser law school (and really only then because of my LSAT) because of the name on my degree.
My current firm would not have even glanced my way right out of law school. I spent years “rehabbing” my resume before meeting (and impressing) the right people (co-counsel from my current firm) on a case. I then received an offer and love it here. I generally think I am treated equally, but every once in a while, I am discouraged by the school name snobbery that exists — there is a presumption that you are lesser if you attended a lesser school. And, when hiring, we often will only consider top ten (not percent, actually ten) of a lower tier school while accepting almost middle of the road from an Ivy.
It makes a difference.
Brit
I think it played a big role frankly for me, but it was more about getting out. I went to a small private U in a medium city that left me with not insignificant debt, but a manageable amount. I think the biggest thing for me was getting out of the small town I was living in at the time and away from what my family and others I know from that area lovingly refer to as “mountain people.” The other 2 schools I was looking at were still too close to home and so chosen-U was a good option. I’m just starting to realize how much better I was for going to a small school though as opposed to the other larger, state schools I was looking at.
It also led to me getting my first job indirectly – apparently the director was on the fence about calling me in for an interview, but is BFFs with the division head at my school and he put in a good word for me.
bridget
I went to a well-regarded (non-Ivy) undergrad. It was incredible – being surrounded by such smart, accomplished people was great, and it forced me to work harder than I had ever worked. It helped me to appreciate the depth and breadth of talent out there. I made great friends that I have a lot in common with.
But those things aren’t worth substantial debt.
As for career, etc: yes, the name does help me, but I think I am more helped by my degree (chemical engineering).
My alma mater is an incredibly special place. I’ve been active in the alumni group since graduation and now sit on the council. I’m thankful that I have the opportunity to give back to the school that gave me so much and helped me grow as a person… but even I would counsel against going into more than nominal debt for it.
bridget
To add a bit: one of the best things was meeting people from all over the world, with radically different backgrounds than mine (white middle-class suburbs), who nevertheless all had a lot in common (love of learning, a lot of drive, a real desire to be involved, and so very talented).
Someone in my family commented that graduation sounded like “roll call at the United Nations.”
My professors loved to teach and were also stand-outs in their fields. That is great. Small classes were wonderful.
I cherish those four years.
Anonymous
This sounds like exactly how I would describe my alma mater (Mac?). Worth every penny to me, even though I am still paying for it….
Annie
You can get a fantastic, life-changing education at so many schools. Going to a T20 will probably help you with your first job or two.
After you’ve been out of school a few years, it doesn’t matter to anyone but you.
The one exception is Notre Dame or one of the military schools, because they have such strong cultures and networks. With them, it will keep mattering for the rest of your life.
Anonymous
Nonsense. There are tons of schools with alumni networks every bit as formidable as Notre Dame.
Amy H.
E.g., Wellesley!
Anonymous
I went to HYP undergrad, am more than 15 years out of college, and it is still the thing that people mention the most about my resume (I went to a T14 law school but not a super big name). I’m not saying that this is right, but my experience is that the “brand name” matters for much more than just your first job out of school.
Amelia Bedelia
agreed
Annie
Of course a lot of schools have huge alumni networks! The bigger the school, the bigger the network! But in terms of the bond people have to complete strangers based simply on undergrad? I’ve only seen it with ND and the military schools.
Similarly, those seem to be the schools that matter OUTSIDE of the scenario that someone is looking at your resume.
I personally went to a top public school in a Commonwealth. It was great! But to answer the OP’s question, I don’t those few schools are unique compared to the rest of the really excellent undergrads. For example, my big firm in a southern city has its own club of Notre Dame heads across the offices. My friend told me about it last week! Even my school -which should be considered top dog here- doesn’t have that.
cbackon
Hm, honestly, I’m also at a big firm in a southern city and I couldn’t name one person here who went to ND. And I’m on the hiring committee.
Amelia Bedelia
Again, I really disagree. We look at educational resumes of lateral partners. These are people who have practiced 20-30 years. unless they have some amazing government experience, the education factor is weighted far too heavily.
OP
I actually went to Notre Dame, so your point is an interesting one. In my experience, the name helps a lot in certain industries and majors, but not so much in others.
Em
I went to a top 5 school for undergrad – it was 100% worth it. I’ve learned that I’m a person who rises or falls to the level of the people around me, so being surrounded by extremely smart, interesting people had a tremendous impact on me. I also loved the intellectual atmosphere and the sense that people cared a great deal about ideas (I grew up in a midsized southern city that felt like a very large country club, and I felt like an outsider for most of my childhood). However, I was lucky to not have to take out any loans for school, and I think if I had debt I would be less thrilled with my experience.
Anonymous
I went to a fancy NESCAC school. I drank a lot, partied a lot, but graduated with somewhere above a 3.0 (but not much) in a hard science. I met my husband there, so consider it a win. He got his first job through an undergrad connection, so that’s a win. We both went to decent grad schools and are in great jobs.
If I went to my state school (top 10 in the country for state Us, and I had a full ride), my parents would have been happier because they funded most of undergrad. I left with $20k in debt and that actually drove my decision to go do grad school part time/ mostly free.
i’m now 11 years out of UGrad and truthfully the things that matter most that I got out of it are:
1. my husband and lifelong friends, many of whom have killer vacation properties
2. I can drink with the Big Boys at work. This has truthfully had a very positive impact on my career. It’s strange, but I’m in a male dominated field and I’m the only female that doesn’t go to be d or fall to pieces after 5 cocktails.
3. Peer pressure to get a real career. my sister went to State U for free and has really struggled to find her way. i think my college crowd all (or mostly all) got “real” jobs after graduating, or went to grad school. Her peers were all over the map and she’s now 8 years out and just now circling back to grad school.
I have friends that went the elitiest-of-the-Ivy route, and I think they had a different experience. That wasn’t an option for me, but i’d be in a different place, I think. But i like my place :)
Um
What is NESCAC?
Anonymous
New England Small College Athletics Conference. Elite liberal arts colleges in N.E. — Amherst, Bowdoin, Bates, etc.
Violet
Not very much. NYU liberal arts degree.
I worked hard and enjoyed school and was lucky to receive a significant merit scholarship so graduated with not too much debt. I found my first two jobs via job postings outside of the school and subsequent positions have been via the significant professional network I have built.
I credit NYU with making me independent but its a very expensive lesson paying full freight. Unfortunately there is no sense of alumni pride (at least within liberal arts, may be different for other programs). And while there are tons of NY financial services professionals with NYU degrees it never seems to be an area of common bonding
I would encourage my kids to do a well regarded public U unless they received a substantial scholarship to a private school.
Anonymous
Fellow Violet here (not undergrad).
I feel like the school was fast to find me when it was time to ask for alumni donations. It didn’t seem to care about me otherwise. Faculty really seemed to care about publishing and about doing important things (not teaching or advising). It’s so big that YMMV, but I would not pay to send my children there for a degree (but would like them to experience a summer there perhaps since being in the Village is transformative).
Anonymous
That was my experience for NYU for law school. My undergrad, on the other hand, which is also highly-ranked, actually seems to care and has a crazy strong alumni network. Guess which school is getting my money (assuming I ever have any, since I’ll be paying off NYU forever).
cbackon
Man, that makes me sad to hear because I loved NYU law. Like, with a crazy love that still endures (and translates into donations and lots of outreach work on behalf of the school).
Anonymous
Oh, don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed law school and the people I met there. And NYU was somewhat helpful in terms of jobs right after graduation (ie, when it mattered for the 9-months-out employed statistic), but not really after that. Some of the faculty (mainly the younger ones not so far removed from actually being a practicing lawyer) were great. But overall, I got the impression they cared about their students a lot less than other schools of equal rank and basically saw us as dollar signs.
cbackon
See, and I felt like the faculty – especially senior faculty – were far more accessible to me than my HYS friends seemed to feel (and I wasn’t any sort of academic star). I’m still in touch with a couple of them almost ten years out, and I’m still really close with a lot of my NYU friends.
trefoil
I gave up a full scholarship to a big but not prestigious uni in Ontario to attend a small, top-ranked (according to Mcleans) undergrad school. While I often complain about the cost and how I’m still paying for it, i’m very happy I went there because I met my best friend there, the distance from home meant that I was forced to be independent and self sufficient. The biggest benefit was that I moved from rural, poor central Canada to the east coast, and attended – largely, i suspect, as a result of the undergrad school – a top-ranked national law school. That school and my background led to my first job, and while it wasn’t a good fit personally, professionally it was excellent experience and means that I’m now exactly where I wanted to be in my career.
young alum
Every time I take part in on campus recruiting (now working for my dream employer), I am so glad that I went to my H/Y/P school. At my firm in particular, I wouldn’t have had a shot coming from any of the other schools I considered. There have also been professional growth opportunities outside of my job that were otherwise closed to me where my alma mater made a difference. I’m expecting this impact to dull over time as I build my own track record, since I’m only ~5 years out.
The being said, my aspirations changed over college, so perhaps I would have been equally satisfied in a different career that another school would have led me to. :-)
Life-wise, it’s a different story, but luckily I’ve got close family and friends who can keep me grounded in way that many of my former classmates seem not to value.
anon
My first time hiring, I didn’t care what schools people went to and selected people for interviews based on their experience and qualifications… only to realize that the people I interviewed who went to not-so-good schools could not answer questions or solve problems that I considered pretty simple. After sitting through four or five hours of interviews with unqualified people, I hired someone from Harvard. Then I understood why people treat school name as a proxy for quality.
Anonymous
This is true. I worked in Boston and worked for a company that only did recruiting at Harvard and MIT. I went to BC, and Tufts for grad school, and would always argue that kids from those schools were just as capable as H/MIT. The hiring manager I was talking to (who went to UCLA and i then forget where for med school) told me, “yes, but with Harvard and MIT, it’s just a matter of fit and there is no need to filter for skill. With other schools, you have to spend energy figuring out if the person is skilled or not.”
opinion
Except that that’s totally not true! At my firm, we have hired Harvard Law grads who turned out to be complete duds.
Anonymous
I would agree. People who are told that they are brilliant don’t seem to have any hussle. People who may be brilliant but feel like they have to prove themselves seem to prove it in their acts.
You can filter for GPA / Honors college / merit scholarships pretty easily at most schools and then look for fit. And the lower-ranked the school, the more grateful people seem to be for an opportunity.
Signed,
Tired of exSCOTUS clerks coming in at the crack of 10 and working on their lunch plans and how to spend their clerkship bonus
anon a mouse
I am reminded of this excellent article from earlier this year about two people who took different paths:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/15/opinion/sunday/frank-bruni-how-to-survive-the-college-admissions-madness.html?_r=0
A lovely line from it: People bloom at various stages of life, and different individuals flourish in different climates.
Annie
It only makes a real difference after 5-10 years if you go to Notre Dame or one of the military institutes.
cbackon
I don’t disagree that you’ve observed that, but I don’t think that’s universally correct by a long shot.
I have no idea whom in my office went to Notre Dame, but I know which partners graduated from Duke/UNC/UGA/Vandy/Florida/Tennessee, because they’re still ALL ABOUT IT decades later, and definitely mention it when candidates from their schools turn up. I’m not sure where you live, but ND barely registers here.
Mary
The peer pressure element is huge. I grew up with means and those among my friends who went to state schools joined sororities and are now SAHMs. Which is totally fine and frankly a pretty awesome path. I went out of state to a top private school. My friends from there are all incredibly smart and motivated and career driven. Moved back to my home state and without that national network of smart women (thanks corporette too!) I think I’d be feeling a lot more alone in my choices. Keep in mind, I am in the south.
The alumni network has not been helpful because I went far away to school though name recognition is good. The moral support from my friend network? Priceless. My husband says my girlfriends from college frighten him, in a good way.
I could have gone to state school and killed it, but I kind of know what sorority I would have been in and who I would have hung out with there. Sometimes it’s good to get away.
Two Cents
My husband says my girlfriends from college frighten him, in a good way.
I LOVE this. :)
CountC
Not very much. Of course, there is always the argument to be made that any decision you make affects your life in some way, but I think I could have had the same experience at another state school. I went to a public university in the south. It was a culture shock and I was miserable my first year. Ended up finding a major that I liked and stayed. I was able to land a prestigious internship, but I can’t recall how much that was a result of my own personal connections or my university’s connections. I worked in the field in which I earned my degree for about three years after I graduated, then I went to law school. Nothing I am doing in law has anything to do with my undergrad degree/school and it didn’t help one way or another in regard to the (bad) school I got into. I have never used my undergrad alumni network and I haven’t been back on campus in 13 years.
All of that said, had I not gone where I did, I would never have met the man who I discovered 13 years later is the man I want to marry!
anon for this
I went to an Ivy League university for undergrad and don’t think I got a particularly great education there, nor was it the right fit for me in other ways. I think a public university honors college or a small liberal arts college would have been better for me and more worth the money. HOWEVER, I think the undergrad degree is what got me into a H/Y/S law school, which got me my current dream job. For better or worse, I am really not sure I would have been accepted even with the same grades, scores, activities, etc. out of a state school. Definitely would not have the current dream job without the fancypants law school degree — again, for better or worse.
Anonymous
I went to an undergrad that’s consistently ranked as top 10, if not top 5, by most national and international rankings. It has afforded me so many excellent opportunities and I know that I wouldn’t be nearly the same person today had I not had those opportunities afforded to me by either 1) the name of my undergrad or 2) the school going out of its way to find and create amazing opportunities for its students and alums.
Having paid full sticker for the undergrad, I stuck around for law school in part because I got a very substantial scholarship from a fund specifically set aside for alums of the college.
Baconpancakes
Would this type of dress work for holiday parties with some glitzy heels, clutch, and jewelry?
Jules
Yes, absolutely. I wore a less dressy Tahari sheath with dressy jewelry to a holiday dinner last week and got lots of compliments.
Monday
Heeeeelp! I’ve fallen into the vicious cycle of lips that are so dry they burn, needing lip balm, and the lip balm probably causing the dryness and leading to further spiraling dependence on it. This has happened to me before and I don’t remember how I got out of it! Exfoliation has not helped. I have Carmex and Blistex, so I know this isn’t unheard of. Any advice? Brands of lip balm that won’t do this, or actions I can take to extricate myself?
anon a mouse
Neosporin overnight lip therapy.
Also aquaphor during the day.
Carmex is very drying. You want something that will put the moisture back in.
Also, check out the Fresh Sugar lip balms for during the day when you need a hint of color.
Anonymous
You might want to find a store for nursing mothers (or amazon), but the Lansinoh lanolin cream (purple tube) was awesome for chapped lips. Very dense (and OK if it gets in your mouth, unlike other lanolins). And chapped everything (and feet). It would feel a bit weird for me to buy it now, but that stuff was magic.
mascot
Aquaphor is a mixture of lanolin and petroleum jelly. It goes on a little smoother than pure lanolin I think. You can get either one at drugstores though.
Diana Barry
Drink more water!
Also, yes the lansinoh cream, but try to get a smaller tube, the one on amazon is enormous. About 2-3 sample size tubes would do.
ArenKay
Second Anon a Mouse here. Carmex and Blistex are terribly drying. I was in your same position, and exfoliation (Fresh Sugar brand is great) DID work once I started following it up with non-drying balms. I also started using a humidifier at night.
Anonymous
Get a lip balm without menthol and without salicylic acid, which I think is what Carmex has.
BB
This is a pretty good explanation of how lip balms work and might help you figure out what’s going wrong.
http://vitals.lifehacker.com/can-you-be-addicted-to-your-lip-balm-1736727613
Anonymous
I live somewhere so dry that my skin will crack and bleed if I don’t take care of it in the winter.
My secrets are- Drink more water, eat more healthy fats (nuts, seeds, coconut oil, olive oil, oily fish, eggs, etc.), get a humidifier, and I use coconut oil on my lips every morning and night. No need to force exfoliation with a sugar scrub if they’re already chapped and rough, that sounds like a recipe for my lips feeling even more raw and sore, ouch.
Anonymous
How are you exfoliating? The best thing I have found for chapped lips is drinking a gallon of water a day, and exfoliating with sugar mixed with olive oil.
Anon
I have perpetually chapped lips also. I know you’ve said that exfoliating hasn’t helped, but have you tried this Sugar Lip Polish? http://www.sephora.com/sugar-lip-polish-P274001?skuId=1297183&om_mmc=ppc-GG&mkwid=s6Ou5k4uE&pcrid=50233218639&pdv=c&site=_search&country_switch=&lang=en&gclid=CLi32_WAu8kCFYeRHwodHKUCzQ
I’ve found that it somehow exfoliates and moisturizes at the same time and really works for me. It’s expensive, but it lasts a long time.
Anonymous
Cortibalm. Recommended here and the only thing that saved my lips during Accutane treatment (which for me was about as bad as chapped lips can get).
ALN
+1000. This stuff works. Period.
opinion
I hate to say this, because I love both, but try giving up coffee and alcohol for a week — the difference in your lips will be amazing.
Basically Trash
Try the “My Favorite Lip Balm” from Bath and Body Works, it really is the best balm I’ve ever used.
Anonymous
Carmex and Blistex are the worst! I love Neutrogena’s Norwegian formula. And I would consider getting a humidifier!
cover letter help
I’m applying for an internship that’s normally done through campus recruiting, but for various reasons that boil down to me not being a traditional candidate, my school has advised me to apply directly to the company’s website. The employer profiles on career services has nearly 20 recruiting contacts listed for my school, so to whom do I address the cover letter? Or should I even pick a person since I’m not applying through school?
Sus
Is there an option to send your submission to a human resources person at the company? Our HR will distribute to the right person/department in the company based on your interests/major. For example, I hire interns who are primarily English or Communications majors, so those submissions would come straight to me from HR.
Batgirl
(Cross-posted on the moms site)
Does anyone have any cute ideas for a pregnancy announcement (on Facebook) that incorporates both Christmas and Hanukkah?
College
How about skip the Xmas/Hanukkah reference, and go right to the New Year celebration?
Batgirl
That’s a good idea, though I was hoping to do it sooner since we’re already pretty far along. But I guess the holidays are also a ways away still (despite mall displays!).
Anonymous
Just a photo of you + bump in front of the menorah and tree? Or a reference to the baby being “the best Christmas and Hanukkah gift ever” (I’ve seen that one done a lot).
SF in House
this page has cute ideas: https://www.pinterest.com/explore/holiday-birth-announcement/
Batgirl
Thanks!
Anonymous
A photo of you and the bump in front of a menorah and tree? A comment about baby being the best Hanukkah/Christmas gift you’ve ever received?
Anonymous
A photo of you and b u m p (is this word seriously sending me to moderation) in front of the menorah/tree? A comment about baby being the best Christmas/Hanukkah gift ever?
Batgirl
Thanks, that’s a very cute idea!
AIMS
Just wanted to post a thank you – I ended up getting the camel Lo&Sons bag last night. Still very much want the navy and was undecided to the end. I think I made the decision just tallying your votes. Maybe Santa will bring me the navy for the holidays….
Anonymous
Has anyone with not-alabaster skin done laser hair removal? Has it worked? Any tips for laser hair removal generally? I am SO sick of waxing and shaving gives me terrible ingrown hair
I have really dark hair, but my skin is more tan (e.g for laura mercier, the shade “sand” matches my skin perfectly)
Little Red
I did and it worked very well for me. I’m South Asian and fairly average in coloring.
Anon
No, but am fairly well-versed on the topic. Make 100% sure that the doctor or business regularly removes hair from people with your skin tone. In this case, paying more for a well-respected dermatologist is very much worth the money.
Amelia Earhart
I just started treatment for full leg. I’m pale but not alabaster, and I had noticeably thinner leg hair after the first treatment. I only shaved 3 weeks after treatment because I had a work event. It’s been another 3 weeks and I really have no reason to shave again except my second treatment is this week and you have to shave beforehand.
Anon0321
Olive skin (although tend to wear pants and my legs are on the pale side), very dark and course hair…. LOVED laser. I did this when I was broke post law school with a bunch of groupons and found that every single place had a different type of machine and this made a huge difference with results… But I couldn’t figure out what the different machines were called.
2 Cents
Wow, the plus-size option couldn’t have more zippers! (I’m not insulting Kat, just what are some designers thinking!?)
Wedding April
I want to get my Pilates teacher a small holiday gift. She teaches in my gym and has been so patient and helpful as I am new at this.
Any suggestions?
anon for this
Do you know if this is a side thing for her, or her main occupation?
If it is a side thing, a gift card for a place like lululemon or athleta, for new gear to work out and instruct in.
If this is her main job, I’d do a gift card for a food place (chipotle, whole foods). Honestly, my friends who are fitness professionals also really appreciate visa gift cards/cash because it is not the most lucrative of professions, especially when you are mostly teaching group classes.
Regardless of what you go with, a card with a meaningful note about how she has impacted your life would probably be the most appreciated.
Famouscait
Does anyone have any experience working with police to tackle crime in their neighborhood? My neighborhood is having a meeting with police after a gang-related shooting took place this weekend. I’m having a hard time imagining what kinds of reasonable requests we, as residents, can make besides having the police also take up residence on our street…
anonymous
You can push for fair policing. People who get undue police attention would appreciate that, if you know what I mean.
Anon
Oh come on. OP is having a meeting because of a gang that is jeopardizing her safety, not to talk about the news topic of the day.
anonymous
If I lived in her neighborhood, I wouldn’t want to be stopped an followed more because everyone finds it justified because of the recent gang activity. This has nothing to do with it being the news topic of the day. This is a real concern for some of us.
oy
Dude, we understand that yours is a legitimate concern. But you’ve hijacked her reasonable question to make a political point. That’s why you’re getting pushback.
Pretty Primadonna
I agree with this.
Wildkitten
I think she made a reasonable point in response to a reasonable question.
anonymous
No, I’m not doing it to make a political point. I’m pointing it out because something similar happened where I used to live several years ago, and people in the neighborhood were similarly worried. My boyfriend and I ended up getting a lot of harassment in the weeks that followed on the assumption that we must be up to no good and/or didn’t belong. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been searched for drugs, and I’ve literally never been drunk in my life. There are legitimate safety concerns that I share too, but there must be a better way to solve them than this.
rosie
Someone’s reality =/= a political point
anon
No one is denying this is your reality or that the concern is legitimate. But she asked for things she could request, and you gave a great “what not to ask for.” What is irksome is that there is certainly no reason to assume that she was about to ask for increased racial profiling, and certainly no reason to assume that “everyone finds it justified.” You’re making a lot of assumptions.
anonymama
Actually, community policing, as implemented in some particularly crime-ridden areas of Los Angeles, is a strategy that can reduce crime and also reduce racial profiling. It relies on police officers building relationships with the people who live in a community, with improved communication going both ways to prevent crime and also catch perpetrators. Maybe you could suggest the neighborhood hold community events where people can get to know both their neighbors and their local police officers?
http://www.latimes.com/local/crime/la-me-warrior-guardians-20150821-story.html
safety
My apartment was burglarized recently and there has been a string of crime in my neighborhood. Tons of burglaries, some muggings, and more involving weapons including guns. Our building had a meeting with our beat cop.
Honestly, I’m not sure you are going to get anywhere by trying to advise the police on how to do their job. You want to go into these meetings being ready to state your fears/concerns, to have questions about their plan of action, and to ask what you can do to help. Figure out how you can work with the police as allies, and they are more likely to try to reach you part way. Otherwise in turns into a ranting session that accomplishes nothing.
In our community, and in many communities unfortunately, one of the big problems is neighbors not looking out for each other. People see crimes in action and don’t call the police, don’t intervene (even when safety isn’t an issue), don’t get involved in any way. And I’m not in the hood here…. it is shocking how uninvolved people want to be until they get mugged/robbed themselves.
And as a side note, the person who broke into my apartment was seen by multiple people trying to get in. Not a single person said anything, called me, or called the cops. I live in an extremely progressive urban suburb close to a huge metropolitan city, and I am very liberal. When I spoke to one of the witnesses later, he described the criminal in detail to me, and admitted that he didn’t want to be presumptuous based on the person’s race that he didn’t belong there….. so he did nothing… even though he didn’t recognize the person. My building wing of 6 apartments has caucasians, african americans, asians, and middle eastern decent residents. So interestingly, my neighbor’s politics of not wanting to profile the intruder actually discouraged him from doing anything. He admitted this.
Now, we all make an effort of saying hello to our neighbors, so we learn to recognize their faces and are a little bit more invested in taking care of each other. We let our neighbors know when we are going out of town, and if we are moving.
And the cops told us….. we have to call them when we see something suspicious.
Famouscait
Great points. Thanks very much.
Blonde Lawyer
A few thoughts. What are they doing to discourage gang activity? Do they have an anti-graffiti squad? My city decided to invest some money into immediately painting over graffiti and removing other gang symbols (shoes on electric lines, etc.) They get labor from those sentenced to community service I believe but it is coordinated by actual city employees. Local schools don’t allow bandannas in back pockets and other gang symbols. It has cut down on a lot of the turf wars over perceived slights. I’m not talking about harassing people that are hanging out on the streets.
For robberies/burglaries/muggings, do you have a drug epidemic? If so, what is your local gov’t doing for prevention and treatment? Do you have a methodone/suboxane program? Are their beds available to those that want rehab? Can they call a number and someone will come pick them up? Does the local hospital and PD tell people about the resources available to them? Do you have a drug court? (intensive probation focused on rehab instead of incarceration). Do your incarcerated get treatment or just housed?
Famouscait
Thanks, I appreciate your response. Yes, there is a drug problem as well. We have a known drug-dealer on the street (identified to me by a police offer at another time) and lots of folks who come to the neighborhood, but don’t live there… possibly to buy drugs, dump trash, or who knows what else. I feel strongly that the trash dumping issue is related (as is excessive speeding/reckless driving), so I appreciate your similar point about cleaning up graffiti. As for gang symbols, I have no idea what those would be, or how to discover them.
Anonymous
It’s holiday tips/bonus season!
What do you usually give/tip/bonus for the following – landlord? hair dresser? housecleaner? nanny? assistant at work? anyone else I’m missing? Is it based on a portion of their salary? Or a set amount?
cbackson
Why the heck would you tip your landlord?
anon
LOL, in no universe will I tip my landlord, good grief.
Tipping has officially gotten out of control.
Cream Tea
This reminds me of something I was wondering about the other day. Do you tip your building manager?
Diana Barry
Nanny, I think we are giving $2K.
My assistant, $100 (she is awesome).
Hairdresser – just a bigger tip, maybe 30% instead of 20%.
SuziStockbroker
Oh my lord, my nanny better not be expecting $2K. I think we usually did about $350 when she worked for us full time. I pay $2 an hour over the going wage now that she is part time..
My assistant, $200, plus a few little things that show I listen to her (she says her hands get really dry in the winter, and she writes – personal- things she doesn’t want to forget down on yellow sticky notes, so I will get her some really good hand cream, and a small moleskin notebook).
Hair dresser, same as always, I tip her 20% even though she is the owner of the salon.
Anonattorney
What about parking garage attendants at my office? Seriously asking. Same guys every day, they are very friendly. They valet, but I don’t use the service unless the garage is full and I need to get the car into a blocked-in spot. There are five regular guys, with a couple other alternates on off-hours. For some background, my firm pays for my parking, so I’m not really sure how much it even is on a monthly basis. Maybe $250?
mascot
Do you tip them when you use them like a regular valet? I don’t think you need to do a holiday tip.
KittyKat
Even at big fancy places those jobs pay at most 15/h which is below the poverty line for a major city. So I’d tip them each a 20
Anon
For people that do weekly work our practice has been to tip one week’s pay – house cleaner, gardener, babysitter (who works 2hrs/day). For our babysitter we also buy a gift in addition to the cash.
Hairdresser will get a $40 tip next time I go (normal tip is $15-$20). We don’t usually tip our mail carrier. It’s not the same person regularly, and I’m not sure how we would handle that.
We used to get the newspaper delivered daily. Our delivery person put it right on our welcome mat every morning. when he left his once per year solicitation for tips (a Christmas card with his home address – hint hint) you’d better believe we sent him $50.
Anonymous
Looking to buy life insurance – is there any benefit to going direct to the life insurance provider, versus using a SelectQuote or the like? Better service, pricing, etc.?
Diana Barry
You want an independent insurance agent – they will get quotes from all the providers. Not a product person or someone who works for only one insurance company.
SuziStockbroker
^^^This, absolutely.
Digby
I would say it depends on how much life insurance you want, why you want it, and whether you have any extenuating circumstances (health issues or high-risk occupation/hobbies).
If you want plain-vanilla term insurance just to provide a safety net until (for example) your child graduates from college, SelectQuote could be fine.
If you want more complex life insurance products as part of an overall financial plan, and if you have or find an agent you trust, an agent could be a good resource. But sellers sell. And sell. And sell.
Bone Marrow Registry
I wouldn’t normally post something like this but a friend of mine from high school has informed us all that her cancer (lymphoma) is back and this time in the brain. She went through a few rounds of chemo when she was pregnant and it appeared to have been eradicated. Unfortunately, that is not the case. They will start chemo again and look into Bone Marrow donations.
I registered a long while back to be a bone marrow donor but this caused me to double check to make sure my info is up to date since I’ve moved.
For any of you who are a registered bone marrow donor, can you please do the same? You never know when they might be trying to reach you.
For those of you who aren’t registered bone marrow donors, would you please consider becoming one? You can register online and have the cheek swab kit sent to your home. Info is here: https://bethematch.org/Support-the-Cause/Donate-bone-marrow/Join-the-marrow-registry/
Thank you so much!
anon
Thanks for the reminder! I will do that today.
Amanda
Thanks for the reminder! I just updated my info as well.
safety
Great post. Thank you for this and good luck to your friend.
Anon
Thank you so much for posting this. My mom’s life was saved by her bone marrow donor when she got cancer and had to have a bone marrow transplant.
Walnut
I was recently contacted as a potential donor match for someone and am looking forward to following up as soon as I wrap up nursing in January. I’ve been on the registry about ten years after a friend of mine’s life was saved by registry donor.
Anonymous
My best friend had her life saved by a donor. For her wedding, all she asked was that people that are willing and able sign up to be donors. One of the wedding guests did, and matched 6 months later. It was a really, really great story.
Onlyworkingmomintulsa
Thank you for the reminder! I went inactive last year when I was pregnant, but had the baby and am no longer nursing so I reactivated today.
Anonymous
I signed up! Does anybody know how this works with time off from work, though? I don’t have sick leave. Will they reimburse my lost wages?
I am a pretty weird racial mix, so guessing it’s unlikely I’ll be called, but definitely willing to throw sample in the mix!
Wildkitten
They need more people of color in the donor pool, so it’s awesome that you joined up. My sister has been registered for over 10 years and was just called for the first time (not even sure if she’s really a match yet) so I wouldn’t worry too much about your current employment benefits. You can figure that out when you get called.
(Former) Clueless Summer
Christmas gift ideas for a early 40’s couple (sister and brother-in-law). We’re not close but we are friendly. Limit is $50. They have tweenage kids. Not sure what they’re into – they are super healthy eaters, spend a ton of time carting their kids around for sports and hanging out with other hockey parents. I am just totally drawing a blank.
Cream Tea
What about some nice salt and pepper grinders?
Walnut
On this note, I’ve gifted Penzey’s spices for various occasions and they’re always a hit.
KittyKat
Hockey parents seem to like fancy coffee mugs. That way their drink doesn’t get cold at rink and then they can get a refill at the closest tims ect. There are vacuum sealed mugs with a button to open that are awesome and mitten friendly, a 2 pack is like 25 at Costco
SuziStockbroker
I have a pad to sit on at the rink that I heat the insert up in the microwave before I leave the house and it stays warm for hours. It is AWESOME, and it is even decent when I haven’t heated it up (there is a good cushion between me and the freezing cold benches). if I am coming from somewhere else.
It cost me $25 at Canadian Tire, so you could get 2.
I haven’t seen anyone else with one, although some of them do have regular cushions or blankets that they bring to sit on.
Another idea is reusable gel handwarmers to put inside their mitts at the rink, or Smartwool socks (they seem to run between $16-30 a pair, so they are nice to get as a gift if they wouldn’t spent that much on socks for themselves).
Yeah, as you can tell, I hate being cold at the rink and have bought myself all those things.
NOLA
To answer Kat’s question, my only Cyber Monday purchases were gifts for my brother and nephew. On Black Friday, I bought a scratching post for my cat because she had shredded the old one. And I ordered wine glasses for a friend for Christmas from Macy’s. I drooled over boots from Nordstrom all weekend and didn’t pull the trigger. They were sold out by Monday and I don’t have any regrets. I could replace some I have that aren’t perfect, but whatever. I’m kinda meh on the whole Christmas shopping thing. I asked my brother to buy me cross-trainer shoes for the gym as mine are somewhat worn out. I need some clothes (new tank tops to go under cardigans) but need to try on and see them on, so I’ll probably go shopping when I’m at my brother’s house since we don’t have that store here.