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Updated: Nov 1, 2018 131 Comments · by

Coffee Break: Cameron Small Satchel Bag

Coffee Break

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Frye Cameron Small Satchel BagThis is a bit more rugged than I usually like for the office, but I'm kind of liking the antiqued vibe. I trust Frye to choose great leather (and have other smart details, like a solid turn-lock closure). I like the striped lining and the smart interior pockets, and at 8″Hx11″Wx2″D I think it's sized just right. It's $438 at CUSP. Frye Cameron Small Satchel Bag (L-2)

Sales of note for 9.30.24

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Comments

  1. home help economics

    Do any of you who hire people to clean your house/apartment a couple times a month do withholding for taxes? What are the rules for this?

    My father has a cleaning lady come twice a month for 4hrs. He pays her a lot because she does a good job and has become a family friend. $200 per visit. In my mind she is a self-employed contractor and should be reporting this income to taxes herself, but I have also gotten the impression from someone else that he should be paying more for her taxes. Honestly, I’m sure she doesn’t report it….

    Does the number of hours worked, or the income earned dictate this? I get the sense that Nanny’s working 40hrs a week are different from episodic home help, but I am ignorant.

      • home help economics

        Thanks. Yes, you are right … it is on point and clear. If you pay someone more then $1800 for home help like this (which the government doesn’t consider a private contractor), then you must pay withholding for SS, Medicare, and unemployment. We’ll need to start working with an accountant.

        Am I the only clueless one?

        • crock pot

          Some people think that the nanny tax applies only to nannies.

          Check out care dot com. They have a service / affiliated company that can do the withholdings and help with the tax filings.

          • preg anon

            We’re planning on hiring a CPA this year who will do our taxes and help with all of that stuff too. On that note, does anyone have a good CPA in Houston?

        • Blonde Lawyer

          I didn’t think the IRS thing was that clear. It isn’t just the amount of money. It depends on if the person is your employee. If the cleaning lady cleans other houses and brings her own supplies and all that fun stuff then she might not be his employee for tax purposes.

          • Anon

            Exactly. The first step is to determine whether this person is your employee. All other answers flow from there.

          • home help economics..

            Thanks for your additional opinions. Maybe I need to read some more….

            She works for a cleaning company full time, and cleans the occasional private home on the side for extra income. She told us what she likes to use for cleaning, and we purchase it so it is at the house for her to use.

    • Miss Behaved

      Me, too. I think this bag is gorgeous. And I don’t even need it to be laptop-size. I just can’t justify spending $400+.

      • CKB

        Me three. Love the bag, and I think it’s a great size for me (I don’t like big bags) but I just can’t afford it. Also, I have a similar looking Fossil bag that’s a little smaller, so I really can’t justify purchasing it anyway, but it’s totally my style!

    • zora

      Me too, i like the rugged, antiqued look. Unfortunately, I just don’t have a bag hole that this fills right now. sadface. Someday i will have real money and I will buy Everything Frye that exists.

      • AIMS

        My mom actually has/had this bag or one that is very similar. It looked like crap after about a year, maybe a year and a half. Didn’t hold its shape, leather looked crappy (surprising given the boots!), just terrible all around. She normally keeps bags for future use but I think she didn’t even donate this one – it was just a major disappointment. FYI for anyone considering.

        • CKB

          Wow! Anyone who likes this bag may want to check out Fossil, then. Similar look at a lower price point, and mine is 2 years old (not constant use, but regular use) and still looks pretty good.

  4. Lost purse help

    Ladies, I need help. Last Saturday I got WAY too drunk and lost my wristlet with my cell phone inside. So far I have cancelled all of my forms of payment, and locked my iphone with find my iphone. I called every local cab company and the bar where we were, but nothing has turned up. I filed a police report. Is there anything else I’m missing? Has anyone been in this situation before?

    • tesyaa

      You will need to replace documentation like your driver’s license, if you lost it. I guess this is obvious, but in my younger days, I carelessly lost my wallet more than once, and replacing my license was the major hassle.

      • Wildkitten

        You will need to replace documentation like your driver’s license, if you lost it. I guess this is obvious, but in my younger days, I carelessly lost my wallet more than once, and replacing my license was the major hassle.

    • Lost purse help

      Thanks for your advice, tesyaa and Wildkitten! I’m trying to go easy on myself and remind myself that these things happen…

      What I REALLY mean when asking if there’s anything I’m missing, though, is if there’s any other way to try and find my wristlet! I’m still holding out hope that someone will turn it in.

        • Lost purse help

          Unfortunately it won’t track if the phone is off. As soon as someone turns it on, I’ll know though! Which makes me paranoid that it’s sitting in some corner of a street never to be found…

          • Blair Waldorf

            That’s tough. Keep checking – if I found a purse and I would definitely turn the phone on to try and contact the owner.

            My friend lost her bag, tracked her phone, and found it at someone’s house. She got the local police involved to help escort her to retrieve it. You never know who you will find! But she got everything back.

            Keep checking the app to see if your phone is on. Good luck!!

          • rosie

            I once found a phone on the sidewalk while walking my dog. It was drizzling, but the phone was ok. The phone was locked, but I could see there was a missed call on it, so I used my own phone to call that number. I met the phone’s owner at a coffee shop. So, it can happen!

            I am not 100% sure if you can, but if you can set the phone to display a message on the locked screen, like call [your alternate #]?

          • zora

            on my phone, texts will show on the screen even if it is locked. Of course if it’s turned off this won’t work, but if you send a text asking whoever finds this phone to call the owner at [number] then when they turn it on they’ll see it?

            I also second the flyers up at the bar and nearby where you might have lost it.

          • Lost purse help

            I have it in lost mode, so that when it turns on it will say “This iPhone has been lost. Please call ______ to return” with my boyfriend’s phone number. I’m under the impression that lost mode is impossible to get rid of, so basically renders the phone useless to anyone who steals it :)

  5. Anon

    Divorced ladies with kiddos – How did you know it was time to pull the plug on your marriage? I’ve been married for 9 years and have two small kids. H is a good dad, but I’m struggling to be happy with him anymore. I’m hoping your stories might give me some perspective.

    • anon

      Read Project: Happily Ever After (which addresses the kids issue in addition to an unhappy marriage) and/or Too Good To Leave, Too Bad To Stay. Good luck.

    • Anon for this

      I’m not in your shoes, but I think you need to ask yourself if you’ve done everything you could to make your marriage work. Talked to your husband, tried counseling, the whole nine yards. If the answer is yes and you’re still not happy, then I think if you choose divorce you should do so guilt-free.

      FWIW, my parents divorced when me and my siblings were adults, and it was hard. They should have divorced when we were kids (it seemed obvious to me that they didn’t really like each other). I imagine divorce is very difficult for kids too, for different reasons. But I really do believe that kids will benefit the most by seeing their parents happy.

      My aunt has decided to not divorce her husband (at least for now) for a number of reasons, including: 1) her kids are still young enough to live at home, 2) the family collectively could not maintain their standard of living if the parents divorced, 3) she’s never really held a consistent job and would have no real means of income and would be dependent on alimony, and 4) it would mean the kids would most likely have to leave their private schools because they couldn’t afford the tuition. I think all of these are valid reasons to stay. I think it helps that my uncle is generally a nice guy and they have fun together, even if they are not a good married couple.

      • Anon for this

        To clarify:
        When I said this – “But I really do believe that kids will benefit the most by seeing their parents happy” – I meant in any form (married, divorced, single). I think the paramount consideration is that if the parent is happy, the child will benefit.

        Also, when I said this, “I think you need to ask yourself if you’ve done everything you could to make your marriage work. Talked to your husband, tried counseling, the whole nine yards. If the answer is yes and you’re still not happy, then I think if you choose divorce you should do so guilt-free” – I did not mean to imply that if you haven’t done those things that you should feel guilty about choosing divorce. I just meant that I think you should consider those things before making such a big decision.

        Good luck.

        • Anon

          “I think the paramount consideration is that if the parent is happy, the child will benefit.”

          There is definitely a good chunk of psychological research that indicates this is not necessarily true. There are studies following long-term the children of divorce and the picture just isn’t this rosy. Does that mean you shouldn’t divorce? No, of course not. Sometimes it is the right decision. But counseling for kids can be critical even if you think they’re “fine”, and as adults who really want our own happiness it is far too easy to convince ourselves that happy parents will = happy kids and it just isn’t so.

          I would agree to get counseling, for yourself and as a couple if husband is willing. And if there’s nothing really “wrong” (i.e., no abuse, no rampant fighting, no drug/alcohol issues) but just a general feeling that it should be more or that you aren’t as happy as you could be, I would really think about what you could do in your own life outside your husband to bring that happiness to yourself.

          A lot of people feel like their partner is the problem, go through the trauma of a divorce (and make no mistake, it’s extremely traumatic to divorce with kids), and find out they still aren’t happy, because the problem was within them all along.

          I’m not telling you not to divorce, that is a question only you can answer. But divorcing won’t fix everything that is wrong in your life (like I said, absent things that actually endanger your physical or mental safety), and it brings a whole bunch of other issues. Being a single parent is HARD. No matter how little you think your spouse does, when he’s gone, you’ll be amazed at how much more there is to do. (Unless he’s a jerk and a slob who does nothing with the kids ever, but it didn’t sound like that’s the case.)

          • anon

            I think a lot of that “happy parent” stuff is a self-serving justification. Yes kids are probably happier when the parents are divorced if their parents were screaming and fighting. But if they mostly get along and just aren’t wow in love, then no, I doubt they will be happier splitting their time between two houses and losing their family unit. They would deal with it and be fine, but “happier”? No, probably not.

          • Senior Attorney

            The research re: children and divorce seems to indicate that it’s the conflict that’s hard on the kids. So if you and your husband fight a lot now, and you divorce and the conflict is lower, then the kids may be better off.

            On the other hand, an awful lot of high-conflict marriages turn into high-conflict divorces, complete with custody battles, and parents fighting when they exchange the kids for parenting time, and so on. And that, in my view, is really the worst of all worlds.

          • Anon

            OP here – I tend to agree with this as well. My parents divorced when I was young and I definitely think it would have been better if they had tried a bit harder to work out the issues. That is why I was wondering if anyone could share a “breaking point” sort of story. I’ve been working with my H for a year and a half to get past some infidelity on his part and it is just. so. hard. and I feel like he may have really broken my heart (at least w/r/t him) for good.

    • Marriage Rules

      Have you read “The Marriage Rules”? Check it out. I read it when I was feeling pretty down about my marriage, and I found it very helpful. It’s divided into many small chapters (each 1-5 pages long) each of which discusses a “rule.” I listed to the audio book during my commute.

    • Fromage

      I’m married, so no personal perspective, but you might check out the archives at askmoxie.org. The blogger divorced her kids’ dad (himself a popular dad blogger) a few years ago. I remember a few posts where commenters chimed in with their own stories of knowing when it was time to end the marriage.

    • Betrayed Spouse

      seeing your post downthread and I hope you get this message. check out the survivinginfidelity boards (add a .com in there). they are excellent. I’m going through the same right now and trying to decide. Also check out How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair, it is excellent. I’m reading it (as the betrayed spouse and then he is going to read it. it is so spot on it’s not funny).

      Given that infidelity is involved, it’s important that he become open, transparent, honest, tell you the full truth now instead of in drips and drabs, cut off all contact, be remorseful and be willing to submit to reconcilliation and all that entails.

      It’s hard and there are days I want to cry and scream and other days I want to rip his clothes off and have LGPs with him, I’m hoping we can make it through.

      As I told him last night “I played a part in the breakdown of our marriage, but I played no part in how you chose to handle that breakdown, by betraying me and my trust. You own that”.

    • Ducks in a row

      I have two kids, 9 and 11. I am meeting today with a lawyer to initiate divorce proceedings. I’ve been thinking seriously about it for, um 8 years or so. I just wasn’t ready I guess.
      I used to think I needed to stay with him for the kids so that I wouldn’t disrupt their lives and so that I wouldn’t only get to live with them half the time. But now I think the example I am setting for them (I do all the work at home and make all the money; its okay to be lied to and disrespected) is not worth it. The kicker was when he (who sort of works but doesnt really make money — not worth explaining) agreed to make dinner once a week and my daughter was like, “so you work, and you make dinner every night of the week week and he only has to make dinner one night?” and she looked at me like I was crazy. There are a bunch of other things (addiction) that I wont go into. I havent told him yet. Trying to get my ducks in a row. He comes home tonight after a 2 week trip away.

      • Betrayed Spouse

        There is a great quote on the SI forum I mentioned earlier that is “never put up with behavior you wouldn’t want your daughter to put up with or behavior you wouldn’t want your son to emulate”

    • ML

      This one is easy! When the negative aspects outweigh the positive aspects of staying married, and the positive aspects of being a single mom outweigh the negative aspects of such, it is time to pull the plug! Good luck! :)

  6. Is this bananas?

    Threadjack, first time poster hoping you ladies can offer some advice: Long story short: Turning 30 this year, and work in the marketing space for biopharma. Thinking about law school with the end goal of going in house. Is it crazy to consider, with the state of the field? Would likely only go if I could get into HYS or UCB. Hesitance: Unclear on the cost benefit ratio, and I value work/life balance and am thinking about kids ~2 years or so. Any words of wisdom? Things you wish you’d known?

    • LeChouette

      A lot depends on your financial situation / amount of loans you’d need to take out / income ratio between you and your spouse/partner (if you have a spouse partner). HYS at full ticket price (i.e. no scholarships) = over $200k in debt by the end. That’s a lot.

      Setting finances aside, I’d think long and hard about why you want to be a lawyer and what you want out of a career v. life. My sole experience is NYC so this may well be different in other cities, but in NYC being a lawyer = working a lot. Any kind of lawyer. Sure biglaw is 80 hours and government is 65, but there’s no 9 to 5 that I know of, or at least that equates to an interesting job. If you really want to do it, then its worth it, but its an expensive, tough road. I went to a top law school, have always had great jobs, (just saying that to say I have what would maybe be considered a “best case scenario”) and between the debt and the hours I often wish I could take back my decision to go to LS.

      • LH

        Yep, I second all of this. Top schools don’t give much merit aid and the $200K+ is hard to pay off – you have to both land a well-paying job, which you have a good shot at coming from a top school, AND like the job well enough to stay in it for 5-10 years to pay off loans. Many, many people hate being lawyers and want to get out as soon as they can but when you have $200K in debt, you can’t just quit your job and go take a much lower-paying job in a non-law field. If you have the grades/LSAT scores to get into HYS, consider going to a slightly lower-ranked school with a significant scholarship – that’s what I did & it was 100% the correct decision (plus, its easier to get good grades/make law review, which counts a lot in interviews). Of course, I’m sure HYS open some doors and helps in ways I don’t know about. Whether its better to go to a top school or a lesser school for way less money probably depends on other factors too, like the quality of your undergrad institution, whether you have an advanced degree, etc. The more things that stand out on your resume the less you need the prestige of HYS (or so I would think).
        Also keep in mind that being in-house is likely a decade away – 3 years of school + 5 or more in a firm. I’ve 5 years out and have very few classmates in-house (far more have left the practice of law altogether than have gone in-house). If you want kids soon, that means you will most likely have young kids as a law firm associate working crazy hours. Plenty of people have done it, but its a huge factor to consider especially if you value work-life balance.

    • Anon for this

      If I had truly realized that I would have 200k+ in debt coming out of law school and what that would mean, I don’t know that I would have gone to law school. I went to law school to do something specific and chose to do something else because of finances. If I had less debt I might be more positive (probably because I would feel like I had more choices other than to simply keep earning).

      It’s not all negative – I did love law school. I went back at 28, and while I was older than a number of my classmates it wasn’t a big deal. And I think a lot of people here will tell you that having a kid while in law school is actually manageable.

    • Anne Shirley

      I’d ask yourself whether you really want to be a lawyer- what if you can’t get a job in house? Many of those positions require extensive experience- do you want to work for a firm for 7 years?

    • Lyssa

      In the nicest way possible, I’m going to have to go with bananas. I get the urge, having been there myself at 26, and I would say that I wish that I had known the state of the actual job market and how, well, cronyistic (is that a word?) it is. I went to a good (not great, but good) school and my grades were excellent – everyone raves over my resume, but I had a very difficult time getting a job. Very difficult, and any job. I had great plans to go into medical malpractice and health law, and thought that my grades and my clerkship would make that fairly easy, but instead, I floundered in tort and family law for 3 years. I’ve finally gotten a job at a real firm in health law (though I’ve had to give up my dream of litigation – and of paying off the loans quickly), so I’m good now, but it’s been a very hard road.

      It’s nearly impossible to go in house without substantial experience and connections. I had hoped that I could do it with the insurance company I’d worked at (with rave reviews), but I couldn’t even get an interview. At your age, you’ll likely be well into your 40s before you can get in-house. You’ll have student loans for years or decades. Re kids, some people have kids in law school and say it works, but frankly, I can’t imagine it (and I had an extremely easy pregnancy and infant). While a few males did, no females in my class did it.

      Before you make any plans, consider all of your options. One thing that I’ve kicked myself for every day is not having sat down with my manager(s) at said insurance company and told them how bored I was and that I wanted to move up and do something else. Good luck to you.

      • January

        So, I kind of agree with Lyssa… having had a tough road to getting settled in a legal career myself. Know what you are getting yourself into.

        That said, I hate to tell anyone they’re too old. I have a friend who went to law school at 39 and had twins her first year of law school, and she managed. I think she had a tough time getting herself situated in the profession, too, but she likes what she is doing now (small firm, not in-house).

        I guess my other thought is to be aware that what you end up doing may be far from what you thought you would be doing (or went to law school to do), so make sure you’re okay with that.

        • Lyssa

          I get what you’re saying about the “too old” thing, and hope that didn’t come across as mean sounding. :) I’m sure a lot of it is the type A in me, but I’d prefer to be really settled into my career by my 40s, not still trying to learn the ropes and figure out what direction to go to. In my mind, that just doesn’t give you (well, me) enough time to get really great before retirement. But that’s definitely a personal thing, and some people are more OK with making lots of changes throughout their lives and careers or not necessarily reaching that high level.

      • Anon for this

        I absolutely 100% agree that you should not go to law school if you’re simply bored with your life/career and are looking for a change.

        Seriously, student loan debt is out of control. On a 30-year repayment schedule, my minimum payments are in the $1,700/mo range. For me and my husband, that means that neither of us can ever stop working to be a stay-at-home parent and still pay all of our bills and contribute to our savings without making major lifestyle changes. And then when we have a kid we’ll have to add about 2,000/mo (NYC) to that burden for daycare costs for 5 years (more if we have more than 1 kid). And really, daycare costs in Boston, Palo Alto, Berkley, and New Haven won’t be that much different. So at an absolute minimum we have 3,700 added to our normal costs of simply living. I feel very constrained in the types of jobs I can do right now because I have to think about having enough cash to pay for those things.

        And I’ll agree with Anne Shirley – going in-house takes years.

    • jc

      Having just graduated this year, I’ll echo the other comments that I would not go unless you will come out with little debt. I went to a good, tier-1 school, and I still have many friends without permanent employment. My thought has always been that it might be worth it if you are passionate about an area of law (and can be certain you will be able to work in that field). The people I think when I think of this are those who are truly committed to public interest or maybe prosecutors/defense attorneys. Otherwise, I say it’s not worth the time, money, stress, etc. that it brings.

      If I had to do it over (and I did not have much debt), I don’t know if I would.

    • HYS Grad

      What is it about in-house that appeals to you? If it’s just the money, there are tons of easier/less-debt-ridden ways to make six figures at a corporation. If it’s something substantive about the job (or rather, what you perceive the job to be), try thinking about/seeking out other career options that would fill that same interest that wouldn’t involve $200K in debt.

      I’m an HYS grad. I was super-broke when I went, so qualified for some grants-for-the-poor, but there are no scholarships in the traditional sense to HYS-type schools (unless you’re a URM or you’re willing to dedicate the first 10 years of your career to public interest work, which, it sounds like, is not your planned path at all), and I still walked out in 2010 with $120K in debt. The debt – which law schools will minimize with promises of income-based repayment, forgiveness if you work for the public interest, etc. – is crippling, in ways I couldn’t have imagined when I made the choice to go to law school.

      My job choices have been largely driven by what’s going to allow me to maintain my standard of living (which is decidedly middle-class, nothing fancy) while making my $1700/month loan payment. I’m in NYC, which admittedly is a high COL area, but even on a Biglaw salary and renting in the suburbs (and with a spouse making six figures) we are not where we want to be financially. We literally cannot afford to have a child until my loans are paid off, because we’d either need a nanny if we both kept working our standard hours, or one of us would have to cut back significantly at work, which would seriously damage our income, and we can’t afford either option while putting 20% of our current take-home pay toward repaying my debt.

      If I could do it over again, I’d be a real estate agent/broker, or I would’ve stayed in public relations (where I worked before law school). The things that appealed to me about law – speaking/persuasion, research orientation, fast-paced & varied workload – are all things I could’ve found elsewhere, without taking on any debt (let alone $120K), and while it might’ve taken me a bit longer to reach my current salary level, my overall standard of living likely would be higher, both because I wouldn’t have the debt burden and because I wouldn’t have spent three years out of the workforce. Being three years “behind” my peers who entered the workforce at 22/23 seemed like no big deal when I was 22/23, but now that I’m closing in on 30 and nowhere near any of the things I hoped I’d have (an owned home, children, time/money for travel, solid retirement and savings accounts) while all of my peers have all of these things, the HYS degree just doesn’t feel worth it, especially not when I’m working 80 hours a week.

    • Anon

      So many of us go to law school with the end goal of going in-house. And then you wind up in a part of the country where there aren’t in house jobs in your industry . And you wind up in litigation bc when you graduated that was the only job available. And when you have a partner and a family, it’s not possible to move cities. And, as someone who started law school at 30 at one of the schools you mentioned, factoring in maternity leave(s) makes mobility in even more difficult.

      In other words, do. not. go. to. law. school.

      • anon

        So true. I didn’t find my dream in house job for fourteen years. Before that, I was ready to jump off a bridge– I didn’t want to be a litigator anymore, I didn’t want to bill a zillion hours, I didn’t want to hustle for business, or commute to downtown. And when I did find it, it was only by dumb luck.

        Also wanted to echo the other poster who said that even a Biglaw salary isn’t that much when you factor in debt and high COL. Yes you make decent money, but it’s not enough to get you a nice house, a nanny for your kids (which you need because there is no way in hell you’re getting out of the office to pick them up by 6pm, which is a rough life anyway, getting home with a toddler an hour before their bedtime), or any of the other things you thought you were signing up for.

    • Anon

      My perspective is a bit different.

      I did almost exactly what you are talking about doing–I was in marketing in the medical device field and went to one of the HYS schools. I did come out with approximately $200k debt, but I have not had trouble paying it down (I work in BigLaw) and will have paid it off entirely by the end of my fourth year. It has not been the crushing burden that many here have felt it to be, but that is likely because I adore my job and always wanted to be a lawyer. So for me, it was an investment well made. For others who don’t have the similar desire to be a lawyer, it can be a massive burden. It just depends on your situation. It also depends on where you land after law school. BigLaw on the west coast is not the soul-sucking, 80-hr/week job that it is on the east coast. Instead, it’s more like 50-60, and sometimes less or more, depending on case schedules. Do I work hard? Yes–more than I would if I had stayed in marketing. Do I wish I could have spent that $200k on something like a down payment on a house? Maybe. But my school gave me opportunities I would not have otherwise had. And I’m far happier now than before I went to law school because this is what I am meant to do.

      Just wanted to give a perspective that isn’t totally gloom and doom, on the offchance you’re someone like me who really wants to be a lawyer.

      • Anon

        And to be clear, I am paying the loans all on my own–I came from a lower middle class family with parents who could only help a little bit with college and not at all with grad school, so I didn’t have a cushion at all.

      • KLG

        I absolutely agree that some people who really want to be lawyers love what they do. But some don’t. I worked at a law firm throughout college and assisted with a major ongoing case that involved 4 trials and 3 appeals to the state supreme court with the lawyers and support staff working 7 days per week and all hours of the day. I was sure I wanted to do that. I loved it. Until I was one of the lawyers responsible for the outcome of the case. It turned out that litigation was a terrible fit for me. I now enjoy my job but it’s a 40 hour a week job and I get paid commensurate with that. Thankfully I had merit scholarships and very little in student loans so it’s easy for me to do that. But it’s definitely not what I thought I’d be doing and I make much less than my college classmates who got jobs straight out of college and did not go to law school. If I had to do it over, I’m not sure I’d go to law school.

      • RR

        Similar to this. I want to throw out too that we often talk about law school like it’s not even worth it if you didn’t go to HYS, and that’s not really true. We also often talk about law like it only happens on the east or west coast, or maybe Chicago. Also not true. I went to a lower Tier 1 law school in the Midwestern state I grew up in. I graduated with roughly $60,000 in student loans. I live in a super reasonable COL suburb of a super reasonable COL city. My kids go to one of the best public schools in the state. I work in regional BigLaw as a junior partner at this point, make well into the six figures, and bill generally 1800-1900 hours a year (for which I am handsomely bonused). I do extremely interesting and complex IP litigation for major companies. I am happy. I love my job. I love being a lawyer. I could probably get a job in house if I wanted one, but I don’t because I love litigation.

        I know I graduated in a different era (early 2000s), with lower student loan interest rates. I know it’s tough for current grads. But there is a whole world of law out there that isn’t HYS and NYC and is incredibly rewarding (and potentially lucrative).

        • RR

          Particularly if you can do really well at a non-HYS school in a “flyover state” and are okay with staying in said state.

      • anon

        Another person posting to say that I always wanted to be a lawyer and am quite happy with my job 10 years out. I work for a small firm in an urban area, I put in approx 40 hours a week with a flexible schedule, and have meaningful case work that I generally enjoy. I also earn 5 figures, not 6. I work in a practice area where the majority of clients are low-income, so my earning potential is limited unless I change practice areas or start working significantly longer hours, neither of which interests me at this point. I second the advice that if you can get into HYS, don’t go there. Go elsewhere that will give you lots of money and come out with as little debt as possible.

        I had several classmates who had kids in law school, both male and female. I don’t have kids myself so take this for what it’s worth, but I did have a lot more free time and a more flexible schedule in law school than I do now, so if having kids was something that interested me, I imagine it would have been much less stressful to do in law school than while working full time. I also didn’t work while in law school (other than summers and as a teaching/research assnt), so if you will work while in school, that changes the equation.

        • bb

          Just want to add that HYS do have excellent loan-repayment programs; at my school it’s solely income-based, meaning you don’t even have to do public-interest work to qualify. So yes, I graduated with $120K of debt and started at a mid-5 figures salary, but my school paid back most of my debt until I started making enough to pay it back myself. I won’t say the debt isn’t on my mind, but I really did have the flexibility to take whatever job I wanted/could get.

          • bb

            (mid 5 figures salary by choice, because I work in a very interesting niche plaintiff’s field and work generally very reasonable hours)

      • LH

        I appreciate your perspective and I am also happy being a lawyer (but I don’t have debt so I think that factors into it for me). But I disagree with your characterization of Biglaw in NYC versus West Coast in terms of hours – I’m sure there is variation at different places & groups and in general people in NYC probably work slightly harder, but not 20-30 hours a week harder. I know many, MANY lawyers on the West Coast for whom 80 hours a week is common. So don’t assume you won’t have to work crazy hard in Biglaw just because you’re not in NYC.

        • Anon

          Certainly–was just speaking from my own perspective and those of the east coast vs. west coast lawyers I know (as well as the NYC lawyer who addressed working 80-hour weeks in her post). Everybody’s experiences are different! And I agree that you don’t have to go to HYS/Columbia/Chicago to do well. Was just relating my similar situation that of the OP.

          I was also just trying to convey that there are at least some people (myself and many of my friends) who truly love what we do, and don’t regret the investment we made or feel that it is a terrible burden. So many posters here repeatedly tell people not to go to law school without regard to whether that person might fall into a category similar to mine. It’s good advice for some, just not all.

    • Since we're anon...

      I was HYS for college and top 10 for law and have been happily employed in a firm job since graduation. I’m not doing any crushing hours in Biglaw (happy circumstance), but still making good money with long hours only when necessary.

      With that said, it took going to law school and becoming a lawyer to realize that in the end, what I really want in life didn’t really necessitate becoming a lawyer. I thought it did (dreams are 1. become a judge, 2. write a book, 3. not worry about money), but I realize now, only one of my dreams involved having to go to law school. It’s funny how all that “ambition” disappeared the moment I graduated from law school. Life is too short, do I really want to spend it chasing some fake prestige or spend it living a healthy, happy life??

      Since I loved law school and actually do like the practice of law and all that and still hope one day to be a judge (or even just be a court clerk for life!), if I could go back I’d take the generous scholarship to a Tier 1 but not T10 school. (I was admitted and matriculated in 2008, before the jobs disappeared).

      Since you sound like you have a science background, and my perception is that IP law is always looking for people, you’ll probably do okay job wise, and if you don’t want to take out loans, you don’t have to go HYS/boalt.

  7. What is the word...

    …I read it first on this site, and now I’m stumped. What is the word for inviting someone (whom you wouldn’t normally invite) to a celebration (e.g., wedding, birthday party, shower) only because you want extra gifts?

  8. kjoirishlastname

    i LOVE this bag. Usually don’t like colored bags. But this is gorgeous.

    And, I have a pair of Frye harness boots waiting at home for me. Happy Birthday to me, from my husband!

  9. Godzilla

    I sincerely have to ask. Do some women honestly believe that platonic relationships cannot exist between a woman and gender of s3xual interest? Or a man and gender of s3xual interest? Please, somebody explain this to me.

    • zora

      I can’t even let myself begin to write a response to that comment, because if I open that can, a Whole Giant Pile Of Flaming Worms And The Contents Of My Exploded Brain will come out…..

    • kjoirishlastname

      I sure hope not…probably half of my friendships are men. Including some that predate my DH (not knowing my DH, but dating him–I’ve known him as long as I have known anyone in my town, I met him on about day 3 of my arrival here, but we didn’t start dating till 4 years later)

    • k-padi

      I believe they can exist (because I have many platonic relationships with men). BUT , if there is a partner, significant other, curious coworkers, or other interested parties, appearances are very important. If it is a business lunch, carry a notebook. Be careful of body language. Tell your romantic partner about any incidents as soon as possible. Just be careful.

      • Godzilla

        Yeah, I’m not buying this. I’m not taking a notebook to lunch. And get food all over my notebook? Please. I need more than the potential gossip police.

      • Blonde Lawyer

        Godzilla – I think some of this depends on regions and religions. Where I live, I and most people I know just don’t care what other people think of them. Where a friend of mine lives, she would rather die than have someone *think* she was cheating on her spouse. I also know people whose religions care about “appearances” because when others think you are sinning, they are more likely to sin or something like that. I honestly don’t get it and the only person whose opinion I care about is my husband’s and vice versa.

        • Kanye East

          I live in a region where your friend’s mindset prevails, ostensibly for religious reasons.

          Personally, I think the attitude (not just about relationships, but also about traditional gender roles), insofar as it drives behavior, is destructive to women’s careers, and it undermines women in the workplace.

          Quite frankly, it shocks me. Interacting with my male colleagues and friends (including in offices behind closed doors and one-on-one lunches) is something I never thought twice about before I lived here.

          • Blonde Lawyer

            I agree with you 100%! I carpool with my (male) boss and go to lunch with (male) boss several times per month. It makes me sad to think that other people would eschew this type of professional relationship.

            Such attitudes will really hold women back. What about client development? Even internally, the key to success in most businesses is forming relationships with superiors. So long as the top is primarily male, that means women and men are going to have to spend some time alone together.

    • Baconpancakes

      It’s rarer than we’d like to admit, but it definitely happens. I have a few male friends I’m certain are going to drop me when I get married, a few male friends I’m very close with largely because we got the LGP tension out of the way early and we know we absolutely don’t want to be together and can just be friends forever, but also a few male friends who just never entered that realm of potential gardeners, for whom I also never entered the realm of potential garden, for various reasons. Those reasons include: met each other while happy with our respective partners since we’ve known each other, so there’s no frame of reference as a partner; absolutely no attraction; treat each other and think of each other like brother and sister; super incompatible in most situations and only enjoy the other’s company in certain situations (like bowling league partners); work friends. Some of my heteronormative female friends have a LOT more platonic heteronormative male friends than I do, so I can only speak for myself, though.

      It’s annoying to think about how many of my male friends will likely stop being friends with me once they realize it’s not going to happen, but I also think there’s something to be said for not expecting ourselves to ever be attracted to anyone other than our SO’s for ever and ever. I think it’s ok to have a friend you’re attracted to, as long as your behavior fits the agreed-upon strictures of your relationship (including emotional cheating, if that’s a thing for you). If the friendship starts damaging your relationship, and you want to stay in the relationship, then yes, it’s a problem, but everyone has crushes, and that’s normal.

      • really?

        Guys ditch their platonic friends-who-are-girls when they get married??? Do girls do the same? I didn’t realize that it was such an abnormal thing to be platonic friends with a male. Do you think that for some, some kind of tacit understanding exists between male and female friends about being “off limits”??

        Plus, what True Friend would try to further a relationship beyond platonics with a married person? Or any person who, for reasons you mentioned, was deemed inappropriate for a s3xual partner? That does not a True Friend make.

        Maybe I just don’t understand the implications, or the crux of Godzilla’s question. Am I that naive?

        • Blonde Lawyer

          I lost one male friend when I got married b/c he was apparently just hanging out w/ me hoping my fiance and I would break up and he could swing on in. I had no idea he was “into” me . When he dropped me like a hot potato I asked our mutual friends what I had done that had upset him since he wasn’t speaking with me. Apparently, it was that I actually got married. Guys like those are jerks.

        • Baconpancakes

          The difficulty is that you don’t always know (or admit to yourself) that someone might not be a True Friend.

          And unfortunately, yes, there are a lot of people who think this way, particularly straight men. Thanks to our competition-focused, highly-s3xualized gender divide, men are often socialized to think that women are pretty much only an end goal, and not a real person. Any friendship with a woman is only a means to an end. See: Nice Guys (of OK Cupid).

        • meow

          Its totally common. I work with all men and I know if I ever gave them leeway they would try to impress me and ditch their significant others. They also make prying inquiries into the state of my relationship, and I am sure it isn’t out of genuine concern. There are only so many unsolicited compliments and comments that can be taken without suspicion arising.

    • Anne Shirley

      Apparently, yes.

      I’m really grateful to my best guy friend’s wife. When they lived apart for a year due to her job moving, and he lived near single me, we had a Friday night routine down pat. He’d pick me up at work, we’d hit the liquor store, go out to dinner, and then go back to my place and drink. We never considered doing anything romantic or sexual. Just like how I hang out with my girlfriends and yet am not tempted. I am simply not attracted to everything with a penis, and I don’t believe all men who like me as a person want in my pants.

    • AIMS

      Yes. But I am of the mind that my SO should have female friends if for no other reason so they can suggest presents for him to get for me and otherwise be a good sounding board for helping him be a good guy (most of the great guys I know have female friends (and sometimes also sisters) to help be great guys).

      My ex was/is very close friends with a woman with whom I have also always been friendly. But we never hung out independently of the ex, whereas they would go to dinner, hang out at his house, go shopping, etc. I never had an issue with it, and she used to help him get me the most amazingly lovely gifts for holidays and my bday. Like all those things I’d say I liked in passing, she’d remember and mention to him around Xmas. I even remember when I was breaking up with him, I vaguely thought they might get together as she had also just gotten out of a relationship and I actually genuinely hoped they might be able to do that and be there for each other, but alas. No go.

      I also had a boyfriend once who ended up diddling his close female friend the same night we broke up but that had nothing to do with their being friends – he would have done that regardless, whether it was with her or with someone else hardly matters.

    • Duchess

      Yeah, I couldn’t believe some of the responses from earlier. I am currently single, and have guy friends in serious relationships. I have gone to concerts alone with them (and hugged them at the end because I had so much fun!) and dinners where we have gotten REALLY drunk. It makes me so sad to think that their girlfriends might want them to not see me if they think like some of the posters. I do know the girls fairly well and we’ve all hung out together and maybe that’s lead to them being fine with my friendship with their SOs. But man, that post bummed me out earlier.

    • TO Lawyer

      People do believe this. And it drives me up the wall. I think it’s really unfair but I also know that even with male friends who I thought were platonic, some of them have made a move after a few drinks. I still believe that we can be platonic friends after that – maybe that makes me crazy. Apparently though (I’ve talked to some very honest guys about this) – a lot of guys would make a move with their platonic friends given the opportunity.

      i STILL think that you can have platonic friendships though – it depends on the people but I don’t think you can make a categorical rule.

    • KLG

      So this is a loaded statement I’m making but I find this viewpoint to be common among those who grew up in areas where most people don’t get more than a high school degree. I say this as someone married to a person with a high school education and living in one of these areas. It boggles my mind how common this sentiment is.

    • RR

      Yes, people do believe this. I don’t get it at all. I don’t have any concerns at all that my husband would behave inappropriately, and I wouldn’t be with him if I did. If anyone ever even hinted at anything non-platonic, he would shut it down. Generally I know when he’s having lunch or something with a female friend, but I wouldn’t consider it to be a problem if he neglected to tell me, just like I wouldn’t consider it to be a problem if he didn’t tell me about having lunch with a male friend. And he feels the same about my male friends.

      I used to work with a guy who wouldn’t be seen riding in a car with a woman other than his wife, unless someone else was in the car. We were associates together. We worked on cases together. It led to us having to drive separately to client meetings hours away. It was utterly ridiculous and made me wonder whether his marriage was even worth worrying about if there was that little trust.

    • Joanna Toews

      Oh boy. This line of thinking is always a bit confusing for me, as it implies that, because I go both ways, I cannot have truly platonic friendships with either guys OR girls.

      And of course, some of my friendships ARE tinged with sexual interest/tension/chemistry (though possibly just in my head). That’s what makes them fun… as long as both parties are respectful of each others’ boundaries and romantic releationships.

      But most of my friendships with people of both genders are sexual tension-free. Which, by the logic of the “can’t be JUST friends” folks, should be be impossible.

      • Joanna Toews

        Having now read the thread in question…

        Mr. Toews and I tell each other about our days, including plans with friends. Not to prevent jealousy through timely disclosure, but out of… being married to each other? Having a relationship? Caring about how the other person’s day is going? Do people even HAVE relationships where they don’t talk to each other about evening plans…?

        Friendships are great! Hurrah for friendships!

    • Sammie

      All male friends I’ve ever had in my life–except one–have eventually ended up telling me they have feelings for me and it has ruined the friendship. I’m not particularly attractive so I can’t imagine this situation would be unique to something about me that makes men fall in love with me. I think a lot of men simply can’t be true platonic friends with women, so I actually am one of those people that believes straight men and straight women generally can’t be good, real friends. Can it happen? Yes. Do I think it’s likely? No.

    • Killer Kitten Heels

      I don’t think it’s impossible for men and women to have platonic friendships with people of the gender(s) to which they’re attracted, but at the same time, I think *some* partnered people use “platonic friendships are totally a thing, back off” as cover for “friendship” with people with whom they have decidedly non-platonic, mutual, pants-feelings. I also think there’s a certain strain of person who uses “oh we’re just friends, silly!” as cover for engaging in “friendships” with partnered people to whom they’re attracted, with the hope/goal of luring that partnered person into a liaison.

      If you’re partnered, I think you have a responsibility to your partner to pay close attention to attractive-gender-friendships, and to make sure that your friend is a true friend, and not a “I’d like to jump your bones so please let’s not talk about your partner ever because I don’t want to know or meet them because it will ruin my pantsfantasy about you” friend.

      Full disclosure: I’m saying this both as someone who had one of these we-totally-have-pants-feelings-but-we’ll-pretend-we’re-“just friends” friendships with a partnered person (not cool, I know, but I was young and eventually called the “friendship” off because I knew it wasn’t fair to his partner), and as someone whose current partner has one of these “friends” – I trust him, but I wish he’d exercise better judgment about/around pants-feelings-friend. (He has plenty of other female friends with whom I have no issues, so it’s not a me-being-irrationally-jealous thing, it’s her specific behaviors around him that make me skeptical of her allegedly platonic intentions, and his alleged obliviousness to her advances.)

      • Wildkitten

        Nope. It’s my boyfriends job not to cheat on me. It’s not my job to babysit his every interaction with a lady. I have too much other stuff to do for myself.

      • Wildkitten

        Oh! Never mind! You’re saying I should monitor my own relationships, not my BFs. I agree with that. And he monitors his. But we each have our own opposite gender friends. I agree with that.

        • Killer Kitten Heels

          Yes, yes, the second thing! In my quest to be gender nonspecific, I think it got a little confusing. What I meant was everyone gets their own friends, and gender of friends is mostly a non-issue, but if you’re in a relationship, it’s part of your job as a good partner to be on the lookout for “friends” and to deal with any would-be “friends” in a way that respects the boundaries of your primary romantic relationship, whatever those boundaries are.

    • baseballfan

      I assume this is at least partially in response to my comment. :)

      Short answer is, of course platonic friendships can exist regardless of gender. That’s not the point. The point is not putting yourself in a situation where something more could develop, and you never know when that could happen. The point is not to play with fire.

      The point is definitely not, to me at least, anything to do with avoiding “appearances” of something. I care not two figs what others think about what I do. (My mom totally does and it really amuses me because I am the exact opposite). Most people I know who consciously avoid alone time with the opposite sex for the same reasons as me, have similar views on the “appearances” issue. It’s totally beside the point.

      I understand the concerns about networking and people working together. I know that if you travel or something like that, it may be simply inevitable to go to dinner or whatnot. Everyone’s application of this concept can be different. I do have to say, though, that lunches really shouldn’t dictate whether someone gets good assignments. If that’s the case, the problem is with the supervisor/partner. There’s no reason people can’t interact in the office around others to get work done.

      I said at the outset that this was my unpopular opinion. Again, it’s fine with me if others don’t agree/don’t understand. My goal is to look after my own marriage, not anyone else’s.

  10. Another tax question

    Tax newbie here – hoping someone will know the answer. Note that this is not my actual situation for this tax return, just something I’m likely to do next year and I like to plan ahead, at least mentally.

    If I am employed by an employer i CA, but I live and work remotely (telecommute) in another state, which state’s income taxes do I pay? Is there a simple answer or does this depend on state where I end up living?

    • Mpls

      Generally, you owe state income tax in the state in which you reside, because your tax status depends on residency. Your employer may withhold taxes for the state in which the employer exist, depending on reciprocity agreements they have with other states, which is something your HR/Payroll department may know something about. In which case you file Employer State Non-Resident form to get the withholding back and file Your State Resident form to assess and pay the tax.

      Some of it is getting murkier, so I would visit your state tax website, and consider consulting with an accountant that is familiar with the states you are dealing with for specifics.

    • Anon

      and a lot of times you have to pay taxes in both states, so i’d talk to someone

      • Mpls

        Yup – that’s what’s getting murkier. Tax codes were written before telecommuting was an option.

      • Another tax question

        So you would get double taxed? Then why would anyone want to telecommute? The tax in the state where I’ll will likely be lower (since most states are lower than CA), but I definitely don’t want the double whammy.

        • Anonymous

          I live in one state and work in another (I regular-commute, not telecommute). I do have to pay taxes in both states, but they take into account that you are paying in two states (you deduct the amount of tax you are paying in state A from what you owe to state B), so I don’t think it really increases my overall tax burden. I imagine that it depends on the particular states involved though, and states that broder one another are more likely to have some type of mechanism for accounting for people who live in one state and work in the other. So yes, I would talk to someone.

        • Anonymous

          If your employer is doing your payroll correcting they would be withholding tax and paying it to the state you live in. I don’t believe you should have to file a tax return in the state the corporation resides in.

          • Mpls

            This only happens if the states have a reciprocity agreement. MN used to withhold WI taxes for WI residents. And then there was a big dust up and the reciprocity agreement was revoked, so WI residents that work in MN get MN taxes withheld.

            And even if there IS a reciprocity agreement, you may still have to fill out paperwork to request that the taxes for your state of residence are taken out, rather than the state of the Employer. It isn’t always automatic.

    • baseballfan

      CPA here. Depends on facts but the answer is probably both. I have filed in numerous states due to work related travel and my usual situation with the nonresident states is that I allocate a portion of my income based on the time I spent working in that state (# of days in the state/# of total working days in the year).

      I’d definitely consult a professional for your specific situation.

  11. Cimorene

    Home repair problem – we woke up to a leaky roof and drywall on the floor. The area of damage on the ceiling is probably about 18″ square, and we put a tarp over the problem area on the roof to hopefully contain the leak. My question is – should I go ahead and file a home insurance claim now, or wait and get the estimates from the roofer and drywall contractor first to see if the total will be more or less than our deductible? We’ve been homeowners for almost six years and this is the first time we’ve had anything happen that is a potential home insurance issue. Would appreciate tips from those who have been there.

    Thanks.

    • tesyaa

      I haven’t filed a homeowners’ claim in a really long time, but I have heard stories that even a single claim can raise your rates or make your company decide not to renew your policy.

      Also, depending on the age of the roof, the roof itself might be a maintenance issue and not covered by homeowners’ insurance? Others can weigh in.

      • Cimorene

        I know – if it’s not much more than the deductible, I’m not sure if it’s worth it.
        The roof itself is in decent shape – recently inspected, should last another 15-20 years. There was just some basic, minor maintenance that we should have had done and avoided all this…

    • Bonnie

      Wait for the estimate. If it’s anywhere close to the deductible but file a claim if it’s significantly higher. We filed our first claim in 9 years after a burglary and had no problems.

  12. Man

    Can I vent? Someone in my office visiting from another office has largely kept her office door closed – but has taken multiple calls on speaker and has opened her door for those.
    Why would someone do this? Sorry if I sound petty – it’s just so distracting and annoying.

    • Mpls

      If she’s on speaker, I’d go over and quietly close her door with a smile and friendly wave. If she calls you on it later, you can tell her that “generally we close our doors when on speakerphone around here. Just trying to help out.” In the most friendly, innocent voice possible (like how would she possibly even take offense).

  13. Most Anonymous

    Desperate threadjack: I am looking to leave Biglaw and move in-house. A position that sounds absolutely perfect for me was just posted at a company where a former colleague works. When we worked together, we were friendly but never really crossed the line into being actual friends. Since she left, we’ve been in touch sporadically, and she knows I’ve been considering making the leap to her company (and even recommended that I apply for a position that wound up getting filled internally).

    Ordinarily I’d send her my resume tonight without any hesitation, but the problem is that she’s been on maternity leave for the past couple of months, and I don’t think she’ll be back until after the position is closed. I would feel absolutely terrible about bothering her at this point, but I am relatively certain that if I don’t, my resume won’t even be looked at. And I don’ t have a personal email or phone number – just her work info and Facebook (which she’s never been very active on, at least that I can see).

    Thoughts on what to do? I’m honestly pretty stumped at this point – it seems horribly insensitive to bother her about this, but this sounds like a huge missed opportunity if I don’t.

    • Anon

      Contact her. You said she’s been on leave for a few months so it’s not like she’s immediately post-birth. After a few months, she might even welcome some outside contact (I did!). But, make sure you make it really clear that you understand she isn’t at work, has no obligation to help, etc. Good luck!

      • viv

        I agree. I don’t think it would be horribly insensitive to reach out now. From what I’ve experienced, people are often happy to help former colleagues apply to jobs at a new company. People want good people working with them, and it’s often hard to find good people. Personal referrals are valuable and can save everyone time and frustration. It’s a possible win-win for both of you. Don’t feel like you are imposing on her so much. She can ignore your note if the timing is off, but she will probably be glad to hear from you.

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