Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Haisley Sheath Dress

426 Comments

1. huh, I was all set to comment that the pictured dress looked more like a low-key party dress than a work dress… only for it to be a different dress when I clicked through! I love the sleeve length on this.

   1. (I mean the image on the c-tt- home page looks different than the one in the post, not that the actual product image on today’s post looks like a party dress.)

   2. Yeah, the dress on the home page is this cute flirty number!

   3. update – it’s fixed now, in case later posters wonder what the heck we’re talking about!

      1. Thanks! I WAS confused hehe.

   4. This may actually be the rare, perfect ‘I’m attending a conference but going straight out to dinner/drinks after’ dress. Take off your jacket and add some different heels and it would be great!

      1. My problem is my legs are always cold at conferences. Would you wear sheer black tights with this?

2. Has anyone tried shoes from the brand Poppy Barley? Specifically, the comeback oxford? I’m in need of new oxfords and like how these look, but never heard of this company. I saw them featured on an influencer’s page but hoping to get real life reviews.

   1. Poppy Barley stalked my Instagram successfully. I’ve got two pairs of the Eyelet Oxford and a pair of pointy loafers that aren’t on the website anymore. Just before Covid, I went to the store in Calgary specifically to try them on because I have small wide feet and the staff were really helpful. They’re true to size, comfortable, and the leather is really nice. One of my friends has the Two Point Five ankle boots, too, and says they’re her favourites. I think they’re available as a marketplace seller from thebay.ca but that may have changed.

   2. The Comeback oxfords are super cute in aubergine.

   3. I own a pair of Poppy Barley boots and the backpack and coincidentally also live in the same geographic area as the company so I was able to shop in store. Great quality, very comfortable. I have wide feet though and I would say that their shoes run small and a bit narrow.

3. Do Coach bags ever go on sale? I’m looking to replace my workhorse black crossbody and they have a couple that look beautiful but are out of my price range. Or is there something similar-ish that I should be looking at?

   1. Yes! I just bought a beautiful leather tote bag from them on sale a few months ago. Happy to see this Coach resurgence of late.

   2. There are tons on the Coach outlet website

      1. Like most outlets, almost all Coach outlet bags are “made for factory”, meaning they were never intended to be sold as full-price merchandise in the main stores. If the OP wants a bag from their full priced line, I would not suggest waiting until it’s discounted at the outlet because that is actually quite rare. I think their full price bags sometimes go on sale, but not as often as the outlet ones. Also, for sales on full price bags, check out department stores that sell Coach and also websites like farfetch or other luxury fashion sellers, as they sometimes have different sales than Coach offers themselves.

         1. I agree that the outlet bags are not the same as the regular bags. That said, I have one from the outlet website and I love it and get compliments all the time on it. I have carried it 3x a week for a year now and it still looks brand new. It has nice details like feet on the bottom of the bag. I don’t know if it will wear as well as my regular Coach bags, but I think it was worth it.

         2. I assume Kate Spade is the same way? Nevertheless, I am really excited about a spring bag that I ordered last week and should be in my hot little hands any day now.

            1. Yes Kate Spade is the same way.

               But I will say that I have some KS outlet bags I really enjoy using! They’re usually a bit simpler than the full price line designs, which I find sometimes comes across as more classic. Depends on the style though.

            2. I want to know if Kate Spade is ever *not* having a surprise flash sale. For awhile they felt truly inescapable. Guess that’s what I get for clicking into it once.

         3. Most bags in the Coach outlets are made for factory, but they do sometimes put unsold regular inventory in the outlet stores, or at least did 10 years ago. I used to be a big Coach aficionado back in the day and I got some real bags at amazing discounts from outlet malls.

   3. Nordstrom Rack has some that are marked down.

   4. Yes, I got a non factory tote for a huge discount on Black Friday a few years ago.

4. For those who work remote permanently, how do taxes work if your company is in another state? Husband is looking at a job with HQ in Conneticut however we reside in the Midwest. Wondering if he would pay taxes for both states? This company is enormous and hires people in all states.

   1. He should only be paying taxes in the state he lives in if he is not commuting back and forth to the other state. If it is truly a remote job, he is working from his home and that is where his work tax is located at. Signed, work remote and manage a payroll team and tax compliance.

      1. +1, it’s where remote work is ‘optional’ for your role that it tends to get more complicated for tax purposes.

   2. I work remotely in the SE for a company in the Midwest, and my company has physical locations in all 50 states. I have a formal remote work agreement with my company, so they only withhold taxes for the state I reside in. It’s my responsibility to keep my address on file updated for tax purposes.

      1. +1 same for me. Permanent WFH in a different state than the legal entity I am employed by.

   3. I live in the Midwest and my company headquarters is in Colorado. I file taxes for my state. Local taxes for my city are taken out of my paycheck. I still have to file with my city, but I don’t usually pay anything extra.

5. I really really want this dress:

   https://www.nordstrom.com/s/delavina-giraffe-print-wool-sheath-dress/7083498?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FClothing%2FDresses&color=001

   But I doubt it would fit in any size and even if it did I cannot spend $897 on a single dress. :(

   1. If it makes you feel better, the prints like up horribly along the back seam.

      1. Agree!

      2. That and the shoulder pads….

      3. Thank you all for talking me out of my dress lust!

   2. I love animal print, but if it helps I feel like this has potential to read “cow” rather than “giraffe”

      1. Yeah, this one is a no for me. Even with unlimited funds.

   3. I like the concept of this dress more than the execution, personally.

      1. This doesn’t look hard to sew, if you were interested in either trying yourself or asking a tailor or someone crafty to help you create something inspired by this dress.

         If you go that route you could even make sure the pattern lines up along the back seam!

         I don’t see myself wearing something like this, but it’s cool and I could appreciate it on someone else.

   4. I have a giraffe print dress from jcrew that I love. Maybe stalk poshmark?

6. new person at work. finally. except they give me a bad feeling. can’t tell if it’s then or me. someone else said something similar without provocation about new person. dunno.

   we’ve been so busy and so understaffed for so long that there’s parts of my projects that haven’t gotten done and I need to deal with that. I wish I had a a better idea of hows long it might take to get a new position to start planning.

   1. Hold on, are you the new person who’s getting a bad feeling abt the job, or is a new person at work giving you a bad feeling about your work?

      1. I think she’s been in the position for a while, has been overworked, and would be relieved about the new person except for a gut feeling that something is off.

         I just didn’t know if there was a question in there.

         1. you are correct.

            we’re too desperate for staff to not keep new person around unless they do something awful. right now they just give me the wig but since I’ve been trying to organize my own departure I’m just going to have to deal with it until I can leave.

            what even is exit planning lol

      2. I have been in my position almost 3 years. the new person weirds me out.

         there are things about the way we do things in my group I don’t like but they’re not like ethics concerns.

   2. Why do they give you a bad feeling? Sometimes people are different than what you’re used to, but it doesn’t meant that they’re bad.

      1. they have a bully vibe. maybe they’re neurodivrrgent, maybe they’re nervous, but the first impression was “I need to get away”

         1. Listen to that vibe.

            Are you managing this person? If so, keep careful tabs on how they treat others who are not in your level. Document interactions with them that are unusual.

            Do you want to leave your job anyway?

            1. I’m not a direct manager, but my role basically gets projects started and then transitions them into the team that will run them until closure. so I have to work with this person in that capacity, and we’re expected to be available for training and questions.

               I’ve been planning to leave. like thinking about it for ages.

            2. Ok but are you applying to jobs. And if not what excuses are you telling yourself to get out of doing it.

         2. Are they actually bullying anyone, though? You can still work with people despite not liking their personality.

            1. Sometimes I get a bad energy from a person and have to tell myself that they didn’t do anything wrong.

   3. It sounds like your employer has been trying to hire for this position for a long time, and is desperate? I think with that context, it’s fair to be skeptical. In some fields right now (like mine, health care) the bar is on the floor for hiring, and it shows.

7. Interested in professional opinions– I am 47 years old attorney and just took a new position in the GC’s office at a local university. I can take classes for free. Toying with getting an MBA. It is a local school and I am definitely not looking to make a major career change but I thought it might be useful and add a skill set to my resume. Assuming I want to stay in school administration type work– what concentration would be the most useful? definitely not doing accounting or finance (math is not a relative strength). Was thinking institutional leadership, marketing, or management? Is there any point to this other than my own intellectual growth (which is worthwhile certainly but separate from a career move)?

   1. I’m in a similar role and I would do institutional leadership. At my school it would have no immediate quantifiable impact. It would look good to be engaged with the University and it might help give you an edge in applying for a new role. I’d only do it if you are genuinely interested.

   2. IMO MBA math is not hard. Math finance math (like stochastic calculus) is more advanced but that is a separate degree path. IMO finance is helpful since you will have to deal with financing for things like dorms and get used to bond offering documents and dealing with vendor contracts, some of which involve numbers (cafeteria contracts, etc), awarding of aid, employee benefits. It may matter a lot more or less if you are private vs public as public stuff may be more standardized or you have fewer options. Private — you may have to do it all from scratch or review from time to time.

      1. Former public R1 uni finance person here. This is spot on.

   3. Personally I don’t think MBAs matter unless they’re from a school where you’ll network with other students and you’re young. Past a certain point, work experience is far more valuable and I’d say you’re there. If you’re looking for a career pivot and have access to a free education, what about something you really want to do for an act 2? I’m also a lawyer and for a realistic second career, I’d get a psychology/therapy degree, something where I could have my own practice in a less stressful way than law.

      1. Counterpoint — my in-house friend found that a lot of CG or nonprofit president roles were closed to her despite experience and went back to get an MBA because it showed that she could run the enterprise and not just the legal side. What is your promotion path like? It may not be on the legal side of the house.

         1. Except I think you actually need work experience for those roles typically. Perhaps an MBA helps you move internally, but it won’t do it on its own.

            1. Thanks all for your thoughts. Without going into too many specifics given my age and the specifics of my practice, I think the trajectory for me if i want to move forward would probably be going into more of a COO role. Things could change but as of now I don’t anticipate finding it worth the nominal increase (if there even would be one) to go to a more prestigious or larger university. I like school and am a good student; I think the school work piece should be manageable and it wouldn’t cost me anything but time so there isn’t a tremendous down.

            2. Makes sense. I would also not feel pressured to do it at all. There’s something wonderful about the freedom that comes from already having made it and getting to use your free time as you wish.

   4. Institutional leadership or management

   5. Why does this all seem so …. wrong to me…..

      With our educational crisis re: the cost of college and crushing loans, it depresses me to hear the popularity of working in higher ed on this board by lawyers, earning MBAs for free at these universities and looking to move up the corporate ladder in this schools making more and more money.

      This is part of the problem. We don’t need anymore institutional leadership, marketing or management.

      Do we? Is this leading to better educated students, with better quality university research and innovation?

      1. You can debate that schools need less leadership positions than they have (and I may agree with you), but they clearly need some leadership. You can’t just have a groups of professiors with no leadership or administrative support.

         Why shouldn’t the op be the person to fill one of those needed positions? And it doesn’t cost the school anything to let her take classes for free, which is the reason they often it as a benefit instead of higher pay

         1. If you look at how crazy NYU is (massive real estate portfolio, foreign operations, etc.), that is an enterprise that can’t just rely on professors overseeing does construction or visas or contract negotiations and lawsuits. Better to let the teachers teach and admins administrate. Yes, there is too much bloat. But you pay for that bloat with salaries or lower cost perks, and perks often win out. That MBA PT student won’t take some FT tuition paying kid’s slot at working at McKinsey, etc.

            1. NYU also doesn’t provide free tuition for an administrator to get an MBA just as an FYI.

            2. NYU presumably pays their staff better than a lot of schools, which is why they don’t have to offer perks like free tuition to attract talent.

         2. “And it doesn’t cost the school anything to let her take classes for free, which is the reason they often it as a benefit instead of higher pay”

            Yes, this! Universities don’t let employees earn free degrees out of the goodness of their heart. They use it as a benefit that lets them get away with paying well below market salaries at minimal additional cost to them.

      2. Ummm wut?

      3. I am all for cutting the exorbitant costs of college but there really are so many admin jobs needed! I’m an accountant and am trying to move from corporate to higher ed and obviously any enterprise needs accounting, finance, accounts payable, campus safety, communications, HR, facilities, etc positions.

         I started my career at a non profit and spent a lot of time explaining to friends that higher overhead at charities isn’t necessarily bad – it’s paying those support roles!

         I agree that there is absolutely administrative bloat and other areas where colleges can cut costs and pass those savings onto tuition laying students and parents but admin jobs are still needed!

         1. Look at the Murdaugh law firm. Lack of accounting controls let the murder guy embezzle millions of dollars. It is overhead but needed for compliance and to prevent theft and keep the light bills paid.

         2. I mean, were universities just really terrible back when these jobs didn’t exist? I think in some cases there are arguments that they were worse, but it doesn’t feel like the gains are really proportionate given the costs.

            1. These jobs have always existed. I’m not sure why you think it’s a new thing.

            2. There are more admin jobs now than there used to be; that’s what administrative bloat refers to.

            3. These jobs always existed but were performed by professors. Professors have enough on their plate without also having to do administrative work. But yeah, anyone talking about “administrative bloat” at colleges probably doesn’t know what they are talking about so….

      4. I’m the former finance person who replied above. The 6 years I spent in higher ed, making between $35 and $60k while taking prerequisites for my masters’ program, and getting to know faculty in my eventual department, is what enabled me to get a fellowship that’s paying for full time graduate school, and hopefully a better paying, more interesting job afterwards. None of those doors would have opened for me otherwise and it’s the first time in my life I’ve been able to study full time without a full time job.
         If the OP wants to get her MBA or any other degree, for any reason at all, it should be encouraged. We’ve so devalued education in this country. It can be so much more than a means to an end. Heck, get your MBA just for the sake of learning!

      5. Yeah, I didn’t think I would get much support for this.

         I think we need more self reflection than rationalization. But that’s not the American way.

         1. I mean I don’t come on here and attack you for getting paid for doing your job.

      6. The idea of professors running a university is making me laugh and laugh.

         1. Are there even professors? Or just endless canon fodder adjuncts and grad students?

            1. Yes. Don’t be silly.

      7. What on earth? You’re now mad at lawyers using benefits they have? Benefits designed to enable higher Ed to hire competitively with private industry even though the salaries are lower? You don’t want people running major businesses which is what universities are to have educations about that?

         Why are you so bitter?

      8. I worked in higher ed for nearly a decade an elite, private institution. Not an Ivy, but you would definitely know the name. This is such a dumb, uninformed take. Yes, the insitutional leadership, marketing and managment of that university made research an innovation (often life-saving innovation) possible. Yes, students with access to academic advising, counseling services, trained resident life staff, librarians, etc. recieve a better education. Professors aren’t trained, equipped, compensated, or interested in doing any of that.

         1. And that does not even get consider accounting, HR, supply chain, property maintenance, etc.

            My alma mater has almost 45 thousand students on 419 acres. It houses over 5,000 students. Who do you imagine is running all of that? Not to mention that their average expenditure per student has actually done down almost 20% over the past 30 years.

            Are there universities with “too many” administrators? Probably. But you are painting an entire industry with a very broad brush (and insulting the OP in the process). Her tuition waiver is a benefit she has earned.

   6. 1) you’re probably better at math than you think you are

      2) I’m a mathematician who helped my non-mathematician husband with a couple of his MBA classes. It was only two classes over the entire course of the degree – one was Econ, one was Stats (like stats 101) and it really wasn’t anything more difficult than rudimentary algebra.

8. Just caught up on the Joan Didion chat from yesterday afternoon’s post. What a gorgeous apartment!

   For other people who like dreaming and looking at beautiful homes I’d like to recommend two insta accounts – themodernhouse (mainly London but some UK wide) and ahouseupstate (Hudson Valley, NY)

   1. Also wanted to say thank you to the sudden influx of newsletter subscribers who I assume came from here! I hope you enjoy

      1. I really do love your newsletter!
         My UK house interiors rec is Mad About the House. I like how she really dissects rooms.

      2. circahouses on insta is my favorite for just enjoyably looking at houses.

         1. That’s a good one! I also like leavesomecharacter and cheapoldhouses.

            1. Oh and cheapirishhouses.

            2. S/o to cheapnordichouses if you too dream of moving to a little red wooden house in backwoods Sweden.

   2. OMG my insta feed was already mostly shelter porn and now you’re giving me more… ;)

9. Has anyone tried shoes from Margaux? Getting lots of SM ads for them and they look great. I have duck feet with high arches and my feet just don’t fit a lot of shoes well.

   1. I have, they’re really well made and have amazing customer service (they replaced a pair for me for free when it was stolen from my porch, and they only knew when I answered a survey question saying I couldn’t rate the shoes because they were stolen before they arrived). I have high arches but don’t really know what duck feet are. Some styles fit better than others for me, but they’re worth trying. I disliked the round toe pump in person, it looked a little dated but have some pointed toe flats I love.

   2. I love the City Sandal. It’s a block heel sandal and it’s comfortable enough to wear all night for a wedding, including dancing!

   3. I have sandals and sneakers from Margaux. They are both great. Well made and nice looking.

   4. I was influenced and bought some. I wanted to love them (classic style! comes in wide widths!) but they were super low cut all the way around the shoe to the point that they felt like they were falling off my heels when I tried walking around the house in them. Also the leather was super soft and smooth but it meant you could see the outlines of some of my toes which I thought looked weird. Sadly went back.

   5. Ordered a few. Beautiful. But they’re in European sizes, which sadly don’t fit my feet. (Which I don’t understand. Do human beings not have the equivalent of size 10 feet on the continent? How is that possible?)

   6. I just bought a pair of their Downtown Boots and I (narrow feet with high arches) love, love, love them. They are gorgeous and were comfortable for walking a mile right out of the box. The important tip I got from customer service was to buy the size equivalent in the listening. So my size 10 Narrow foot might be a 41 in one listing, a 40.5 in another, etc. It’s based on the shape of the shoe. I would contact them if you have concerns about fitting.

10. I know many of you struggle with relations with your parents, and I would be interested in perspectives (and also if the answer is to just get over it). My two young kids, 4 and 6, and I went to stay with my parents, at their request, at their second home in Florida. I find myself dealing with a lot of frustration and anger at my dad- he has always been lazy and selfish and somewhat of a narcissist, but it’s somehow worse seeing it through my kids eyes. My mom, who was the breadwinner while I was growing up, cooks and cleans up after him, and it’s so frustrating when I’m there because I am expected to as well- like I’ll go to clear the table of my kid’s stuff, which is fine, but also I have to get all of his stuff as well, because he can’t be bothered. I know in some ways it’s a generational thing, as my mom and aunts are always exclaiming over how much my husband does (he is an equal partner), but continually seeing it makes me so mad and not want to visit. But then I would be depriving my mom of her beloved grandkids. But if I send them on their own, she essentially has three children to look after which I think is more than she can handle- when they stayed on their own for more than a few nights she told me my dad said it was too long (I think because he didn’t like how she focused on the kids instead of him). But then they quickly walked it back when I started to change plans to reflect that request, and said they didn’t mean it. I suppose the answer is to just suck it up, but I would love any perspectives or advice.

    1. On some level it’s their marriage and they can do what works for them so that’s the “suck it up” part. If there is any money to throw at this problem, can you go out to eat a bit so there is nothing for your mom to clean up for at least some meals? Or even go to a hotel if that isn’t rocking the boat too much? I guess I wouldn’t worry too much about the kids’ POV – they will figure it out.

       1. A hotel is your answer. Bonus – the kids can have a sleep over one night at your parents and you have the hotel to yourself. Make up some fake excuse about why you need a hotel and just stick to it regardless of what your parents say.

          1. Yes, agree, my in-laws have a similar dynamic and it makes me too angry to stay with them. So we don’t.

    2. This seems like a very normal generational divide, which is meant not so much as an excuse, just as an explanation. Reminds me of my mother in law who was such a super smart, logical and creative person, but always made herself smaller to make her husband feel like the man. She resented the heck out of the place they (he) chose for retirement, but also side eyed her daughters in-law when we weren’t behaving wifey enough or she felt that her sons were making compromises. There was this blind spot where she insisted that a husband needs to make the decisions and a wife needs to follow, while at the same time this would lead to choices that made her unhappy again and again.
       Anyway, I totally get why it’s annoying!

    3. I think there are all kinds of ways that couples divide responsibilities at home. Some of them may be generational, but others play to each person’s strengths.

       For instance, my mom did the majority of the cooking when we were growing up (still does), but my dad did nearly all of the cleaning up after dinner. My mom spearheaded cleaning and dusting the downstairs of our house (with help from us kids), while my dad dusted and vacuumed their bedroom and the office upstairs. My dad mowed the lawn and snow blowed the driveway (tasks he really enjoyed, btw) and my mom did the hedge trimming and planted flowers. Dad was also the bug and spider squisher and did mouse patrol in the basement, and did all the legwork whenever they needed a plumber or electrician or whatever. I think they managed to divide and conquer household tasks in a manner that meant they kept out of each other’s way and probably got reasonably close to a 50/50 divide. TBH, as a kid I saw more of my mom’s contributions than my dad’s, but in retrospect my dad was doing a fair bit. Things have also shifted over the years (especially since their retirement) as they now have fewer constraints on their time.

       I’ve known a couple where the husband did 100% of the outdoor home maintenance and the wife did 100% of the interior home maintenance. I’m not sure that that’s anywhere close to a 50/50 split, but it worked for them because she had no interest in yard work and he had no interest in cooking or cleaning. Another couple is one where the wife does most of the cooking and cleaning, but the husband does a ton of research and planning for all house projects and new purchases. Again, it works for them because it’s what each of them loves to do and is good at.

       You haven’t mentioned whether your dad has other responsibilities around the house that could be less obvious or are not day-to-day things that a guest or kid would notice. Finances/paying bills, dealing with contractors, planning or researching, etc. may all be going on behind the scenes (or not!). Another thing to consider is whether your mom is bothered by any of this. Maybe her love language is acts of service, and in exchange she receives the quality time and companionship she wants. Or maybe she isn’t getting much at all in return, but she puts up with it anyway for her own reasons. So…maybe suck it up?

       1. I cannot with this. So many excuses for bad male behavior…

          1. Totally.

             I think the OP knows very well what her father’s behavior and contributions are.

             It’s only now that I truly appreciate what a superwoman my BigLaw mother was.

          2. Agreed. I’m a single parent, so I get to do 100% of the work. the division of labor described would be no where need 50-50 based on my experience

          3. Yeah that’s kind of re-stating the rationales that have kept women doing most of the work all these years.

    4. Eh, idk how old your dad is, but he may just be a cranky old man. My parents are in their early/mid 60s but DH’s parents are 75 and 83 and the difference is striking. My parents are still in “babysit the grandkids” phase of life, while MIL always has FIL + the kids to look after. FIL is somewhat like your dad, with a twist: he and MIL both worked, but FIL is older and got an early retirement package, which he took. He then “stayed home with DH” which in practice meant he was an adult in the home, drove carpool, and that’s it. MIL worked full time and did all the cooking and housework.

       But they are rich, and MIL retired for good at 55, so perhaps my view is colored by only knowing DH during the time his mom was working and his dad was not. FIL is certainly a cranky old man who could not deal with kids of any age, much less 4 & 6, in the home for more than a day or two.

    5. I think it’s likely a combo of both. There are certainly generational differences but he sounds lazy even compared to men of his generation. I agree with others the solution is getting a hotel. Or inviting just your mom to come visit? It might be a bit awkward but we’ve done that with my in-laws (FIL is awful, MIL is lovely) and it’s worked well.

    6. I hate to say it, but this is very much a generational thing in many respects. My dad is similar. It is frustrating but my parents have been married for 45 years and this is their deal, and it’s not going to change. My mom, arguably, is as helpless as he is, just in other ways. While I would never, ever sign onto a marriage with these dynamics, I also would not consider limiting my kids’ time with them.

    7. For the clean up example, get the kids and DH involved too? The 6 year old can certainly help set and clear the table, and even the 4 year old can do something to pitch in. If they ask why grandpa isn’t helping – let’s all be good guests and pitch in so our hosts have less to do, or his knee hurts, or whatever excuse he usually uses.

       If kids see their own father pulling his weight at home then that has a much bigger effect on them than whatever grandpa is or isn’t doing. I get why it bothers you though.

    8. I agree with all the above points, and I also relate to this with my parents’ marriage. However, are you upset on your mom’s behalf, or your own? If you are upset for you mom, I think you acknowledge that she is an adult making her own choices, and you don’t further punish her by not visiting. If you are upset that you have to do extra chores while you are there (eg cleaning up after your dad), then you have to decide if that’s a price of admission you’re willing to pay…but pitching in a little extra seems nbd as an occasional guest, and is a way to “repay” your parents’ hospitality.

       If you are concerned about what your children are noticing, I would let that go. They’ll learn far more about marriage and expectations from you and your husband’s example, and if something is really egregious you can address it head on with them later (“You probably noticed how grandpa always leaves his dishes for grandma. That didn’t seem very kind to me. I’m glad our whole family works together to keep our house clean.”)

       1. You said this better than I did. Yes, it’s annoying. No, I wouldn’t worry about this dynamic affecting your kids.

       2. Yeah I can’t imagine kids being seriously influenced by the grandparents’ marriage unless the grandparents are living with you or at least providing daily care, which isn’t your situation.

    9. I have read and re-read your post but what I do not see is any indication that your mother has a problem with the division of labor in her marriage. And whether she does it not, it is her life and her marriage and she gets to make her own choices about what price of admission (or maintenance as the case might be) is acceptable to her.

       My parents have been married 50 years and there is certainly nothing approaching equitable division of labor in their marriage (which is not to say my father does nothing – the cars, the yard and the finances are all within his purview) but in terms of time and effort, it does not match 90% of the housekeeping, all of the grocery shopping and all of the cooking. BUT – my mother does not have a problem with it. And frankly if he tried to take any of it over, she would not be happy because she likes controlling those things and wants them done her way.

       To quote the immortal Elsa, let it go. Absent actual abuse, their marriage is not more your business than yours is theirs. And honestly, clear the whole table if you did not cook the meal.

       And to be super clear, I understand your frustration. But I suspect that your issues with your father go a lot deeper than his failure to do housework.

11. I asked about where to travel with my dad, and we decided on Savannah! I’m overwhelmed with how many delicious restaurants are there, and our time is limited. Please let me know your favorite place to eat, and let me know any specific dishes you like! We lean towards vegetarian/pescatarian but are flexible. We love trying new restaurants!

    1. Collins quarter!

12. Does anyone have experience with Caraway cookware? Our current cookware is a cheap nonstick set from college that has miraculously lasted 15+ years. Any other recommendations? TIA?

    1. Lindsay at Pinch of Yum highly recommends them; I think she did an Insta story review that’s saved on her profile somewhere but you might have to dig to find it.

    2. I’m a broken record, but I make 90% of our meals in a le creuset braiser, the other 10% in a le creuset dutch oven, small sauce pan, sheet pan or frying pan. I’m convinced that’s all you really need and I’d go big on the braiser and dutch oven, Target for the other stuff.

       1. Ooh, this actually sounds like a great strategy. Little kids + two big jobs means I’m not making gourmet meals requiring a million pots and pans in this season of life. I’m just over the stickiness of these old nonstick tools. Do you know what size braiser you have?

          1. Ohhh I wish I was that detail oriented! If I had to guess, it’s the middle size if there’s 3 options or largest of there’s two. It’s definitely not the small one. My only caution is choose the color wisely because those things literally last forever.

             1. Just looked at their site and I think I actually have the largest, I routinely cook for 6+ in there so I don’t think it’s the smaller sizes.

             2. In mod, but revising to say I think I have the largest, 5qt

             3. https://www.lecreuset.com/braiser/LS2532.html

             4. Thank you!

       2. +1 to this. In general, I haven’t found direct to consumer brands being able to replace classics in quality when it comes to this realm.

          I also love the 2.5Q french oven (we got as a gift) and Balti dish for regular cooking; but I also love crockery. We keep a cast iron skillet on the stove which gets a lot of use. I haven’t ever got it to be “nonstick” like everywhere says I can.

          We have a set of stainless steel Paul Revere pots that DH got when he started college and grad school that we use, like, daily.

          $25 Faberware nonstick pan (Kenji Lopez-Alt recco) for eggs and those type of things.

          1. Yeah you really do need one nonstick pan for eggs.

             1. +1 and you just accept that you’ll have to replace it from time to time. I get the smallest one for this reason.

             2. Disagree, I don’t own any nonsticks and eat eggs often. The key is to properly heat the pan before adding the oil and then it is essentially nonstick.

             3. Okay, rephrase: *I* really do need one nonstick pan for eggs!

       3. I could have written this exact comment. Le Crueset braiser is what we use 5 nights out of 7.

       4. My LC braiser is the most stained LC in my arsenal, which just shows how much I love it. In addition to quick stovetop meals, I also use it for roasting – most often, roasting a whole chicken, something I do about weekly. Just the bottom part for this, but it’s the perfect size for a chicken.

    3. I had asked about this here before and someone pointed me to a blog review that was favorable, but the comments there were negative about it. Seemed like the blog review was paid and maybe not truthful? I will try to find it (maybe the Pinch of Yum one? Can’t remember.)

    4. When I asked about it before someone directed me to Kath Eats: https://www.katheats.com/caraway-cookware-review

       The comments weren’t great so I passed.

13. My kid’s b’nai mitzvah service and party are coming up in July. Most of my closet feels like pre-Covid ancient history/out-of-date. Any recommendations of what to wear or where to look? My style tends to be black and white geometric prints, no frills, Madewell/Everlane aesthetic if had to describe it. Am short and curvy. Thanks!

    1. Long dress or short? A quick search led me to this:

       https://www.nordstrom.com/s/stripe-cotton-blend-rib-dress/7301608?origin=keywordsearch-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FAll%20Results&color=001

    2. I would check out Rachel Comey, Cos, Mara Hoffman, or Marimekko for a special occasion dress like this.

    3. White House Black Market could be a good option. They have a rather large petite selection online. I am also short and curvy and have gotten many dresses from them over the years.

       Also: don’t forget that you can (and should!) get whatever you buy tailored if it doesn’t fit perfectly off the rack. Don’t be discouraged if something is too long or gaps somewhere but is otherwise great.

       Mazel tov to you and your kid.

    4. If it’s available where you live, I would make an appointment with a personal stylist at Nordstrom.

14. My spouse has had moderate depression for years and has done all of the standard things (therapist, trying different meds, etc).  It’s not worse but it’s not really better.  I don’t know what triggered it, but yesterday I just felt like I crumbled inside.  I am so, so tired of being the only adult in the house with energy and joy.  Spouse still makes the effort to do 50% of the work of running the household, which I know is truly huge, but … I just miss the interesting person I married.  As far as I can tell, spouse’s true preference at this point would be to do nothing except sit on the couch and play soothing phone games forever.  I miss the long hikes we used to do, I miss vacations where we were both excited to get out and see cool things, I miss the feeling of tackling hard problems together with vigor, I miss being with someone who enjoys life instead of slogs through it.  I’m tired of every date night turning into discussions of sadness and depression, I’m tired of trying to think of yet more (ultimately ineffective) things I can do help, I’m tired of taking the kids out all the time to provide “introvert time at home,” I’m tired of having to be a nag about going to bed on time (because otherwise the complaining about being tired is even worse), I’m tired of feeling lonely.  And the idea of doing this for decades more just feels overwhelming right now.  I’m just so sad.

    1. Please see a therapist to help you process your emotions. Caregiver burnout is real.

       May I also suggest going on some hikes with your spouse? It’s an introvert friendly activity and, in some circumstances, exercise is more effective than medication for treating depression. (British Journal of Sports Medicine, “Exercise as medicine for depressive symptoms? A systematic review and meta-analysis with meta-regression.”). This is not to suggest that he ditch his medication in favour of going for a hike; it’s to say that dragging him out for a hike every weekend may improve things for both of you.

    2. Get the divorce love. Live in a house full of joy. Enjoy your time with your kids. Being single is so much better than this.

       1. I am usually pro working it out, but I was with that guy for far too long before I met my now husband. Ex sucked the joy out of life for me eventually no matter how much therapy and support I had. No way to live. The kids will be okay. Get a divorce.

       2. “I’m tired of taking the kids out all the time to provide “introvert time at home,”
          Wow, that really resonated with me. I have been there. I send you a lot of love. It’s hard.

          Here’s my advice: You get one life. Just one. Love and care for yourself too.

          Being a happy, single mother was the best thing I ever did for me and my kids.

       3. +1

       4. My sister lived with her husband who was just like yours. He had an affair and she ended the marriage. In retrospect, as painful as it was, the affair was a gift because it provided her with the ability to leave a marriage that was worn down by depression. I have never seen her happier than she is now, 5 years later, but that was also clearly true by the 2d year after the split. She is back to her old, fun loving, fun seeking self.

       5. Yup. You are not required to do this for decades more and you are not required to be sad for the rest of your life.

    3. I could have written this post, with the exception of the “…effort to do 50% of the work..” (he does none). I miss everything we use to be and do. After about 8 years of this (I know, that is a long time), I finally told him we need to separate. And we did. Now that I have been by myself for about 6 months, I can see that I really, really do not want that life for myself anymore and I am going to tell him we need to divorce. Sorry you are going through this, but I am right there with you. Hugs.

       1. Proud of you. Sending strength

    4. No real advice, just solidarity. Being the only source of joy and positive energy is spiritually exhausting. It does help me to get a break from my partner sometimes. Any chance your kids could go stay with friends or a family member so that you could have a solo getaway?

    5. If I may, I will put in a plug for an organization I am affiliated with – the Well Spouse Association. We exist for exactly this reason – to provide a community and support for people in your situation. You can Google it to find our webpage.

       1. Not OP, but I have been looking for something like this, so thank you.

    6. Is there any possibility that he would do (and you can afford) a week or two in an in-patient facility? I know lots of people who have gone to these and come out feeling so much better.

       1. I ended up separating in this situation because by the time he ended up taking it seriously I was just done. That said, post-separation he started ketamine therapy with a psychiatrist and found it very helpful. I would be wary about in-patient (from my own experience) unless you are able to get a very good understanding in advance is what treatments will be available.

          1. Be very careful with talking about ketamine. The data supporting it is terrible, it isn’t covered by most insurance and is very expensive, and its positive effects to be very transient if any. And for profit Ketamine centers are popping up everywhere, eager to take the money of desperate people.

             I truly hate the for overwhelming influx of for profit, investment entities in our dysfunctional and cruel health care “system”. And don’t get me started about the for-profit dominance of Hospice companies …..

       2. That is totally not how the system works. These days inpatient hospitalization is only used to minimally stabilize people who are a danger to themselves or others. They send them home while still experiencing psychotic symptoms. A depressed person is only getting a hospital bed if he’s expressed an intention to harm himself or others, and if he does he’ll just be medicated out of his mind and forced to go to groups with a bunch of extremely sick people.

          1. There are private facilities. That’s what I was referencing. I’m well aware of how the hospital/public system work. Unfortunately, I’ve had to go through the 5150 hold process with my mother – and from law school in another state. It all s*cks.

             I did a nesting fail and responded to someone else and not the OP. :-(

    7. I may get in trouble for saying this, but: your husband needs to work harder at finding something that works for his depression, and not continue along in a low-functioning state for the rest of his life. Him staying depressed will not just affect you, it will also affect your kids. I don’t know what he’s done/tried but there are lots of options out there, including looking at psychedelic microdosing or ketamine therapy, electroshock (it’s way different than it was in the 1960s; I have a friend who did it and it was miraculous for her); intensive inpatient therapy as someone else mentioned, etc. Yes, I would say the same thing if this were a physical illness. It is not okay for an adult with responsibilities and a partnership to decide to live the rest of their lives coasting along in second gear, completely unhappy and only partially functioning. There’s research out there that says the act of trying to get better can help people get better; when people just give up on ever feeling or doing better, that’s when things can really slide downhill. To me, this is like if someone was slowly bleeding to death from a cut on their leg – we wouldn’t be like “oh, it’s okay that you’re bleeding; just sit there on the couch. Either you’ll get better or you won’t.” We would insist on getting the person some help.

       I think counseling for you alone is a good idea, but couples therapy could be useful so that you can, in front of a neutral third party, state your case and also talk about outcomes if he doesn’t make some efforts to try some thing he hasn’t already tried to get relief. I know this is a tough situation, and I feel for you. But you deserve better than this and if he doesn’t feel HE deserves better than living how he’s living – that’s a huge part of the problem.

       1. I don’t know that you’ll get in trouble for saying this. I agree that it’s usually not enough (for mental illness or physical illness!) to see some professionals and try out the things they suggest. Most providers stick with what’s good enough for 8/10 patients. Most patients will fall in the 2/10 for some issue sooner or later. (Made up numbers, but you get what I mean.)

          So there’s nearly always additional treatment options out there for someone who looks harder, seeks second opinions, or travels for the best care. Depression can be a primary psychiatric condition, but it can also be secondary to an undiagnosed medical issue. Sometimes integrative providers can investigate supportive therapies. For example, I know people make fun of this sometimes, but a lot of men don’t feel great when their testosterone levels are completely tanked. A lot of people don’t feel great if their vitamin D is in the gutter.

          Sometimes psych meds and even therapy can be counterproductive, though it’s scary to think about this possibility.

          So I agree that it’s possible that more could be being done. I do think it’s probably inconsistent with the symptoms of currently refractory depression to expect the depressed person to be the one to do it.

          At the same time, while I think that being completely unhappy is an issue, and that there’s often more that can be tried to address someone’s illness, it’s reality that people with serious conditions can’t always be restored to the point that they’re fully functioning. And I do think “partially functioning” is pretty basic to what “in sickness and in health” covers? (How many people are fully functioning when sick?)

          I also wouldn’t worry as much about it affecting kids unless I’m missing something? I’ve not experienced or observed that depressed people are inherently harmful to be around or a negative influence or anything like that, unless something else is wrong.

          1. “And I do think “partially functioning” is pretty basic to what “in sickness and in health” covers?”

             Speaking for myself, it would be 100% dependent on my partner’s attitude and outlook. One thing I cannot stand is self-pity and a “woe is me, look at how terrible everything is” attitude. If, let’s say, he lost a leg in a cycling accident or something (which has actually almost happened; he got tagged by a car on a ride a few years back), I would expect a period of grieving and a period of adjustment. I would anticipate he would need some therapy to help him cope with his situation, and I would expect him to get that therapy. I would also want him to go see a prosthetics specialist and see about getting a prosthetic leg, and go to physical therapy, and in general, want to move forward from the point of the accident and while understanding life will never be the same, have a perspective of – in my new life, I can still find beauty in this world and see things through a positive lens. People lose limbs, suffer TBIs, get cancer, get in terrible accidents, have all kinds of awful things happen to them, and the ones who do the emotional work to get mentally better as well as physically better go on to have rich, fulfilling lives. I know it is possible, and I would want him to at least explore that possibility.

             What I would not abide, and what I do not think is covered by “in sickness and in health,” is when people hit roadblocks or bumps in the road of life, and then they pull to the side of the road and get out of the car and sit by the side of the road moaning “ohhhhh WOE is MEEEE! Look at this, this is terrible! Things will never be the same and I just can’t go on! I guess I’ll just sit here like a lump and wait for someone to come along and either fix things for me, or take care of me for the rest of my life while I sit here passively with a terrible attitude and make everyone around me miserable.” HELL. NO. That’s not what I signed up for. I am here to walk with my spouse and support and help him through times of trouble. But he has to want to help himself, and do the work to get moved forward off the stuck place when he gets stuck. Walking the path of life with someone is completely different from dragging someone down the path of life behind you while they fight you the entire time. The latter is exhausting and no one should be asked to do that. Completely unfair. You’re basically asking someone to give up their entire life to cater to another person, and they get a chance to say “yes” or “no” to that. My answer would be “no.”

             “I also wouldn’t worry as much about it affecting kids unless I’m missing something? I’ve not experienced or observed that depressed people are inherently harmful to be around or a negative influence or anything like that, unless something else is wrong.”

             You obviously didn’t grow up with a depressed parent. It can be extremely harmful, if for no other reason than you don’t grow up with an idea that happiness is possible and that people have agency in their own lives. And possibly that it’s okay for someone to slave away and be codependent and cater to the depression instead of enabling the person to participate in their own mental health self-care. Ask me how I know.

             1. It honestly sounds like you’re talking about something that goes way beyond what I think of as depression (saying woe is me, I’ll just sit here like a lump, expecting people to slave away, be codependent, and cater to me). That’s not how the depressed people in my life have ever behaved. OP said her husband does his 50% of stuff around the house, so I wasn’t really picturing someone who isn’t trying at all.

                If someone is severely ill, they may despair of getting help and may seem to have just given up, but that’s really different from taking things for granted or taking advantage of people (in this position it’s hard not to be overwhelmed with gratitude, though that can be difficult too). And they still need help. This was me once, though depression wasn’t my issue. My spouse got me the help I needed (a much, much better medical team) at a time when I could barely string words together. I couldn’t have gotten myself that help on my own.

             2. Anon at 2:12 – you seem to really be personalizing this discussion to your own situation and looking at everything I’m saying through your own very narrow lens. I don’t know what to tell you or what you’re looking for me (or anyone) to say here. Your situation doesn’t sound all that similar to the OP’s husband’s situation, at all. I am glad, in your case, your husband was there to help you. Good for him and good for you for having that support. Literally being too physically incapacitated to seek help on your own is completely different from someone who is capable of doing 50% of the housework and playing games on his phone all night and just won’t try to get better. I still contend that no, spouses do not have the absolute responsibility to stick by the side of a sick (however they’re sick) person no matter what and no matter how long things go on. It’s a marriage vow, not a prison sentence. Josh Duggar supposedly has a “sex addiction” that made him want to download child pornography; I don’t think his wife is obligated to stick with him, now that his addiction has landed him in federal prison for a number of years (although she has anyway, sigh.

             3. I’ve known generous, giving, selfless people who suffered terribly from depression. It didn’t manifest as what sound more like character flaws. Maybe depression just means a lot of different things or has a lot of different symptoms? But for someone to need help is really different from someone needing to shape up and stop being enabled. Maybe it is hard to entangle if both are happening.

          2. Having a depressed parent is sometimes considered an adverse childhood experience. I know OP is shielding them as much as she can, but they probably have a sense that their dad doesn’t want to spend time with them.

          3. Speaking as the depressed spouse (no kids, I do 90% of the adulting and make half the income) expecting my spouse to act more like my parent and caregiver is not a reasonable expectation for the rest of our lives. I understand that depression is hard because the disease makes it hard to do all the behavior changes to treat the disease (like getting enough sleep.) But, that doesn’t mean OP just needs to live the rest of her life like this.

    8. I’m so, so, sorry. I completely understand what you mean and where you are coming from. My family is going through a mental health crisis right now and it seems like every last thing is about the individual’s needs and how no one is being supportive enough and yet we should still be practicing self-care, but don’t forget to be supportive. It’s all about the mental illness all the time. Stepping away to try to find joy is just one small moment in the day, and I feel so alone in even wanting it. I’ve tried to talk to my closest friends about how frustrating it feels to just be on the couch trying to be supportive and they try to say that the couch day feels nice. They just can’t hear me when I say it makes me want to scream to imagine doing this for the rest of my life.

       Like you, I want travel and adventure and joy, and it’s not a non-issue to lose those things. It’s so hard to be with someone you love who struggles with depression.

       1. Get out! You deserve joy. You are not responsible for another adults mental health.

          1. I do. I have fun hobbies and friends and I do things that I enjoy. It doesn’t make it easy to see someone you love unable to participate in life with you – especially when you remember what they used to be like. Nothing about it is easy.

             1. This is OP — this comment at 1:31 is exactly, exactly how I feel.

    9. Thank you all for your thoughtful comments – thank you especially for the empathy and sympathy from those of you who have been there. I do think spouse has made a genuine effort to treat the depression (including following the recommendations re exercise, etc), and I don’t underestimate the effort that’s been involved in remaining a meaningful contributor to a busy household while depressed. But still, it is obviously not working. Yesterday it hit me just how long it has been (eight years, like one of the other posters) and how lonely I am. I don’t think either of us has ever seriously considered more extreme options like electroshock therapy or separation, but maybe it’s time to think through at least some of those options. You’ve all given me a lot to ponder, thank you.

       1. I’m sorry you’re going through this, it sounds really rough.

          I have a family member who is in a not -the-same but similar situation — caregiving for someone where the need is just overwhelming. And like you, there’s no obvious better option, it’s no one’s “fault”, it just… is really really hard. For them, having some time when they are totally “off duty” for a couple days has been the difference between feeling like they’re whole life is caregiving vs they’re getting at least some of their own needs met. Planning and taking that person on long weekend adventures every couple of months is my role — is there anyone who can do that for you? Or as your kids get older, are there any travel adventures you could arrange as special time with just one of them — whatever lets you share your love of adventure and travel and tackling hard things, and build the opportunity to experience that for your kids as well?

    10. For me the meds were making things worse. I’m forever grateful to the people in my life who pulled me aside and expressed concerns about the effects of the meds on my personality. I kind of just sat around all the time when I was taking them.

    11. I’m surprised by all the advice to divorce. Ask yourself 1) would you feel comfortable with your husband getting 50% custody, or are you willing to fight him for less than that? Can you afford two sets of housing with enough rooms for the kids where you are currently or would you have to move, or do the “divorced couple who shares the house and a studio apartment” thing.

        2) what will change? you say he’s doing 50% of the work now… that will change. do you really want to start dating or looking for a new partner amidst all this?

        if it were me I’d just start focusing on things that bring me joy. go for long hikes by yourself or with friends. book a vacation. stop asking how he’s feeling and letting him wallow on date nights – book dinners at loud places or for movies or shows.

        1. I am one of the commenters who divorced in a similar situation. Dating or finding (or not finding) a new partner should be the absolute last thing to consider here. It doesn’t matter. Don’t stay with anyone because you’re not sure you can do better. There are way more important things to consider.

        2. I actually don’t wholly disagree with this advice – it’s similar to what I would probably try myself, in a similar situation – and I think the practical considerations around divorce/custody are definitely something to think about. I know I would have reservations on giving 50% custody to my spouse who doesn’t really want to engage with our kids when he is with them now.

           But I think it’s important to acknowledge that if OP does this, then OP is essentially engaging in a life that is parallel to her partner’s. Like running her own race on the same track as her partner but not really running *with* him. Is it a partnership if one person is living their best life on their own and the other person is sitting home depressed? I don’t know. I know for me, I want someone who *wants* to do things with me, and spend time with me, and wants to be an active and enthusiastic participant in our family life. I don’t expect activity and enthusiasm to be at the same level all the time (and sometimes it won’t be there at all) but it needs to be present – I dunno – more than 50% of the time? I don’t know whether the “I’ll do my thing and go have fun and you can do you” dynamic isn’t just giving OP’s husband a pass to continue being depressed and not work on himself?

    12. I, too, was married to that guy, except we had no kids (and he did 10% of the housework, at most). We were married a long time but it was the last six or seven years that he became like your spouse. He was willing to try medication but didn’t follow through on therapy and eventually gave up even on meds. I have never been so lonely as I was in the last part of our marriage. It was his giving up on making any more changes that led to me filing for divorce. (And I got valuable support here — thanks, Senior Attorney!) I felt such a weight come off me — I was able to care for myself for a chance instead of spending every spare waking minute worrying about and caring for him. I won’t claim that my life is perfect now, six years later, but it is so much better.

        1. Hugs, Anon For This! So happy you got out and things are better!

15. What do you tend to save/splurge on? I save on cars (Toyota is just fine for me), furniture (IKEA Hemnes dressers are serving me well though I’d like a nicer couch once kids are out of the house) clothing, makeup and food (I enjoy eating good food, but am not a “foodie.) Splurges are mostly travel and vacation-I live to travel, and want ti travel with my kids a lot while they’re still living at home and hope to do more with them once they’re young adults. Also hope to eventually buy a vacation condo/house and avoid major renovations on primary home to afford that.

    1. There’s literally nothing I try to save on that way. I personally find most “middle” choices to be great. So that means, for me, no to IKEA but yes to Pottery Barn and no to something super fancy (if we’re talking basic furniture, I also love antiques and family stuff). I will splurge on things that make a big difference to my enjoyment of something, like I have a great fancy-pants bed, will fly first or business for long flights, I’ll get great art, etc.

       1. I “save” on furniture by buying it all second or third hand, getting it for free off marketplace etc. And then when I’m missing “just the right piece” I have no problem dropping the required $$ from a high end place to pull the room together.

          Same goes for generics. I will use or eat generic just about anything except Tide, Tampax plastic tampons, and Cascade dishwasher powder.

       2. Similar. All my furniture is room & board or vintage, but I haven’t bought furniture in 5 years and have no plans to buy any. My clothes are mostly theory, sezane, everlane, but I buy maybe 10 items a year. I’m wearing a Patagonia winter coat for the 7th year and don’t feel like it’s time for a new one. I eat out at nicer places for date nights and get orchestra tickets to the theater. I drive a Honda accord hybrid with leather seats. I don’t spend money often but when I do, it’s rarely the cheapest option.

          I do fly coach though, but the “pick your seats” option. I got upgraded to business class once and it was incredible but I can’t afford it regularly.

    2. I don’t know if we splurge on anything. Maybe brunch? Which isn’t a necessary purchase but family brunch or brunch with friends is such a lovely luxury. I’ll also spend more on ethical or local food.

       1. I also have trouble thinking of splurges. I guess paying more for convenient flights and premium economy is definitely a splurge for me.
          I recently made myself splurge on vuori leggings because I was annoyed with how quickly cheap leggings wear out. Not sure yet if it was worth it.

    3. I save some n coffee, cosmetics, and cars and I mostly don’t travel because I can’t figure out how to plan something that doesn’t get spoiled/canceled by work I splurge on food and my social life (drinks, restaurants, Ubers, tickets, entertaining at home, etc ). The rest is somewhere in the middle. I try to have nice clothes and furniture but nothing fancy. My home is small and affordable and not highly decorated

    4. I splurge on experiences- not necessarily vacations, but daytrips around our city, theater/shows/sports, lots of ski weekends and ski gear (which TBH i buy all used for the kids except boots for my oldest who then passes them down to the other two).

    5. Similar to you… splurge on travel (our travel budget is eye-popping for our income) and education (kiddo goes to the most expensive daycare in town, but we love it and feel like it’s worth it), save on cars (we have a 24 year old Toyota and a 14 year old Toyota), clothes (rarely buy any, and only when I have a need because something’s worn out or doesn’t fit) and makeup/beauty (don’t do anything other than quarterly haircuts at a cheap place). Entertainment and food are kind of a mixed bag. I go to the theater every couple of months which is a significant expense but other than that don’t spend much much money “going out.” In our stage of life with a kid and living in a small city we don’t go to fancy restaurants anymore, but we do spend a lot of money on takeout and Doordash. So food is probably more in the splurge category even though we’re not doing anything fancy or “foodie.”

    6. Spend money on travel (to see people but also places), pets, food/coffee, healthcare, and shoes.

       Save on housing, clothes, household goods and furnishings, car, and personal products.

       For many years we had an IKEA bed and a futon mattress, but we aged out of that and finally got a nice bed (we got the tatami room bed that I think has been discussed here) and mattress. My husband is very chill and would “save” in every category but is definitely happy about that one upgrade!

       I need new window treatments (we have the dangerous kind in every window!), but have sticker shock right now, so we’ll see if I find a way to save!

    7. I save on almost everything (out of necessity). I’m naturally pretty thrifty but would enjoy a few splurges if I could afford it.

       I walk 95% of the places I go. Only Uber when it’s too late to walk safely. I drive a 23 year old Honda, but really only drive when visiting family.

       My clothes are 90% TJ Maxx, Old Navy or the thrift store. About once a year I splurge on something nice (Redwings boots, Patagonia jacket, Theory blazer).

       My technology is all older models: my phone is only 2 years old but is an SE. I have a refurbished MacBook Air that’s a decade old. I bought my iPad last year but it’s a 6th Gen.

       My skincare and makeup are all drugstore or Sephora brand.

       My one splurge is a Hand and Stone membership, so I get a monthly massage or facial. It’s $70/mo.

       I also splurge on my apartment, I “should” have roommates or a studio but pay $200 more for a one bedroom I love love love.

       My final splurge is travel in that I try to do it every year. I take a lot of road trips and fly Spirit/Frontier almost exclusively, but I try to fit in some sort of trip each year. I also end up sharing a bed with a friend on most trips – 3-4 to a hotel room or something similar. Mostly to go to National Parks, as I enjoy hiking. I occasionally will do a mid-winter beach trip to Florida instead.

       I eat almost all of my meals at home and have sworn off concerts until I pay off my student loans but I do go out for drinks with friends pretty often (3-4 days a week), but I only let myself get whatever is on happy hour special.

       My furniture is 90% family heirlooms. Nothing is valuable, but it’s all solid wood! The other 10% is IKEA or from Buy Nothing.

    8. I splurge on my time and my peace of mind. So, direct flights and car services when I travel (knowing that someone is there to pick me up at the airport at a specific predetermined spot is a huge help for my travel anxiety). I buy my child’s clothes new so that I don’t have to spend time going thru consignment stores and I have exactly the outfits and he needs. I pay more to get my nails done at the appointments only place so I don’t ever have to wait. I “splurge” on reservations for date nights and pay the $5 per person reservation fee to book it so we won’t have to wait to be seated. I save on my work clothes and shoes by not buying very many and on books and video services by utilizing the library. Also save by not having high end cars.

    9. Save on cars and clothes; cars I just don’t see the point in buying anything fancier than a Toyota, and for clothes, I am not good with clothes so don’t see much point on spending a lot on something I’m likely to stain or the cats are accidentally going to claw or whatever. And I hate shopping in person and have given up on getting clothes that fit well online, so I just naturally don’t buy a lot of clothes as a result (even when I probably should. My work wardrobe needs an overall, but the pants search is so discouraging).
       Splurge on vacations and my horse. Not that I necessarily “splurge” in terms of horse things (Though my husband may not believe me when he reads this (and he does read corporette-hi, dear!)–relative to a lot of horse people, I don’t spend that much; I don’t do fancy shows, I don’t own a truck and trailer, eg), just that owning a horse is by definition a splurge.

    10. Jewelry (allergic to a lot of alloys) and mid-priced but good quality shoes for my very fussy, aching feet.

        Some makeup but not all makeup – I have a mix of Bobbi Brown/Trish McEvoy/Laura Mercier + drug store brands. I’m transitioning my makeup to mostly Beauty Pie because I use them for my skincare, and that hits the quality vs price sweet spot for me. So far everything I’ve tried has been more or less equivalent to the fancy stuff.

        My cookware and knives are top-notch – LC, All Clad, and the top line of Henckels / Zwilling knives. I’ve had a lot of this stuff for 20+ years and it’s still going strong.

        My car is a 10 year old Volvo wagon (XC70) which I plan to drive into the ground. Fortunately my husband is handy and does a lot of the maintenance himself, and has even replaced a few trim parts that wore out.

        Cheap: I buy a lot of my clothing secondhand (focus on natural fibers from brands I know, like EF and Flax), I don’t eat organic for the most part, and I cook 95% of our meals. I am all about the store brands for things like detergent, paper products, cleaners, etc. I buy the majority of my warm winter clothing on sale after xmas. Annnnnd, I cut my own hair and my family’s hair, though I send them out to get a real cut from time to time to get the lines established again. I’m pretty decent at it, I just take longer than the salon people to get it perfect.

16. To what to degree are you considering climate change/rising sea levels when thinking about the near future and where to live? Was reading w piece about billionaires buying land in the midwestern US as climate change refuges and made me think. I’m in a landlocked part of the East coast, but kind of want to move to the coast because…YOLO? Not the wisest move most likely, but the ocean is what makes me happy. Trying to decide if I should aim to keep my affordable home that is more landlocked as a rental if I do make the move in case disaster strikes.

    1. Don’t buy in the 500 year floodplain period. Literally pull up the maps and make sure you’re not in it. Try to avoid a red state that isn’t spending on climate mitigation now. I don’t think you have to avoid the entire ocean but don’t buy oceanfront property.

       1. This. It would be simply dumb to buy beachfront property today, but you can be close enough to enjoy it (and hey, it might end up becoming beachfront property by the end of this century!)

          1. I don’t think you meant it this way, but this is insulting. President Obama, John Kerry, and Bill Gates have all recently purchased beach front property, and they have correct thoughts about global warming and policy. Climate policy and actions do/should not apply to the upper middle class who vote properly, which I assume OP does.

             1. Obama, Kerry, and Gates all have enough money that if their beachfront properties lost all their value their financial plans for the future wouldn’t be ruined. It’s a different decision process for the rest of us!

             2. Okay tr*ll.

             3. @Ribena, exactly!

                I don’t know what is insulting about it unless Anonymous @ 11 is a realtor specializing in beachfront properties.

    2. I would not buy coastal real estate, but that wouldn’t stop me from moving to a coastal city. Look at elevation maps and understand your flood risk (and buy flood insurance).

       1. I dunno, I would not move to Miami (already experiencing sunny-day flooding) and New Orleans (we all saw what happened with Katrina and NOLA is below sea level already).

          I’m not in a coastal area and have no plans to move to one or buy property in one. Just doesn’t seem like the move.

    3. Suspect old age would get us out of our house before sea levels would. (In a city rowhouse with steep stairs.) It’s a major but not main source of equity in the context of our assets overall, so if we don’t make as much money eventually selling in the future… shrug. Not going to give up living downtown for that.

       We enjoy variety of travel too much to be tempted by a vacation home purchase, plus figuring out whether or not it’s insurable.

    4. Personally, I am not willing to buy waterfront property because of climate change. If my lifestyle allowed, I would enjoy renting in a coastal city for a while though.

    5. There’s two different aspects to this for me:
       1) the rising sea levels piece – I wouldn’t buy a home next to the beach, beautiful as they are. (I would rent one though).
       2) the adaptation/ retrofitting piece. I’m in the market for flats, not houses, so they’re inherently a bit more difficult to decarbonise as you don’t have your own roof and control over your walls, etc. So I’m selling my 1890s flat this year and will wait to buy until I find a flat that’s already had the most complicated bits of decarbonisation done (i.e. probably with district heating, which lots of new builds are starting to have). NB though that this coincides with a geographic move – and one which I know I will regret in the future hot summers as it’s to a warmer part of the UK.

       I’m thinking about this more than my peers though because this is my day job.

    6. Not all coastal town are the same. I’m on the west coast, about a mile from the ocean and have zero concerns. But there are tons of places around here I’d never consider buying, either because of fire or flood risk, which is actually higher farther from the ocean in my particular town (as a general rule- you don’t want to be in a flood plain anywhere, obviously!). Geographic specifics matter a lot.

       1. Yes, geographic specifics are what I was trying to get at in my point ‘1’ above and then forgot where I was going with it! I’ve seen advice never to buy houses on roads called ‘Mill Lane’ or similar because that’s usually due to the presence of a stream with flooding potential.

          1. Agree -that’s why I said above that you should check the 500 year floodplain on the maps for a proxy of where it will flood in the future (not the 100 year one that requires flood insurance for where it will flood now).

    7. I would not buy too near the Coast, or in an area where hurricanes are likely to be more common and worse.

    8. the cover of Cleveland Magazine is all about how we’re supposedly sitting pretty for climate change.

    9. We’re selling our coastal waterfront home. It was supposed to be our forever house. The local news had a report last year about an important historic site nearby trying to raise $30M (not a typo) to repair the sea wall protecting it, and I realized that if it takes $30M just to protect one small historic site, there’s no way anything will be done for all the rest of us who live nearby. Federal maps confirmed that the land our house is on will be completely submerged. NOAA.gov/slr

       But – I guess good for us – we’re in a ruby red area of a purple state and people think climate change is as much of a hoax as COVID. We list in a couple weeks and our agent thinks we’ll have no problem selling.

       We’ve already bought our new forever house: 8 hours north (to escape the coming heat), 1 hour inland, and 700′ above sea level. We’ll at least be safe from sea rise there, but who knows about the rest of it.

    10. We plan to move back to my husband’s rural small town in the next ten years. It is in a hurricane zone and we’ve been through two rounds of cleanup. What that means for us is that we’ll build, rather than buy, a home that is engineered for maximum hurricane resistance and that is elevated.

        This may seem crazy to people, but he is from a special and economically important place; if everyone moves away, there won’t be anyone to advocate for it. We feel like we need to be there so that there is someone who can speak for it.

    11. OP here: thanks for the replies so far. Very helpful. Agree re: wouldn’t buy oceanfront, both because of risk factor and high cost. I’m looking primarily at the South Shore and North Shore or Cape of MA.

        1. Check the link for federal sea level maps I posted above at 11:37. You’ll be able to zoom in to each house you’re considering.

           1. The North Shore in particular has some low lying areas that won’t fare well in the future.

              1. Sorry for the spacey replies – I’m home sick today. But I’m 11:37 and we considered Mass, but ultimately went with northern CT.

              2. 11:27 🤦🏻‍♀️ All these replies are the same person – me – trying to be helpful.

        2. We live in Hingham. It’s awesome.

        3. Bostonian here. The Cape is incredibly vulnerable to climate change, both in terms of sea level/hurricanes, but also because there is so little connection to the rest of MA. It does not take a lot to knock out the infrastructure enough to make getting off the Cape (or getting supplies onto the Cape) difficult.
           I’d vote North Shore over South Shore for general quality of life and access to all the things I like about Boston, but I am also a kind of diversity to which the South Shore is not particularly hospitable.

    12. I’m in the Bay Area so we are increasingly dealing with smoky times of year and warmer temps than my home is built for (no AC) but when we look around at other places, they all have their own issues, like polar vortex and spring flooding and drought, so we are staying put for the forseeable future. Plus, family are here.

    13. I’m in NYC, live very close to the water but in an elevated and protected location. Sandy took out a few trees in our neighborhood but everything else was fine. This was absolutely a consideration in choosing a neighborhood — I love red hook for example, but it’s very prone to flooding in major storms.

17. My first comment disappeared so sorry if this double posts!!

    I previously asked about this here, and was pointed to a blog post that was favorable, but then the comments there were not. Seemed like maybe the blog post had been sponsored/paid and wasn’t entirely truthful. I’ll try to find my original post here and link it.

    1. Ok, clearly I’m having all the struggles this morning! This was for the Caraway question!

18. I moved to Arlington, VA late last year for work and I’m totally floored by all the armed carjackings. There was one on Saturday night, which made the 7th for this year and it’s only February. For context, there were 14 total last year. These have been happening to all kinds of vehicles and at early hours too, as early as 8-9pm. I don’t feel safe and I’m wondering if I made a mistake by moving here. Any other Arlington residents here who are exasperated?

    1. https://www.arlnow.com/2023/02/27/arlington-police-investigating-weekend-carjacking-near-courthouse/

    2. DMV resident — it’s definitely upsetting. What we’re doing: car locked at all times. Kids are NEVER left in the car without us physically inside. Don’t get gas at night. We wouldn’t consider moving over this. And it’s all over the DMV so I don’t think leaving Arlington for another town will help.

       1. “Car locked at all times” includes while you are pumping gas, while you are returning the grocery cart, while you are inside the car… I grew up in L.A. so out of habit I lock the car immediately upon entering or exiting it.

          1. What is locking the car door going to do when someone puts a gun to your head through the window?

             1. I mean, you could ask the same question about locking your front door at night and someone just taking a golf club to your living room window, so I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish by asking this.

             2. Come on. There isn’t a wave of people taking a golf club to living room windows like there is a wave of armed carjackings where people point their gun at the victim’s head.

             3. Carjackers will often try to pull the door open and then aim the gun at your head. An “armed” carjacking includes being armed with a knife, which doesn’t really work through a door.

             4. Have you read about the details of these carjackings? That’s generally not how it’s happened.

             5. They often try to open the door or get into the car. Anything that slows them down is helpful.

          2. Serious question, do all people not do this? I grew up in NYC so maybe it’s just force of habit but my family/friends all seem to get in, buckle seatbelts, and lock the doors. Ditto with locking the car while pumping gas/returning carts/after parking in a driveway. I was also taught to never roll down my window for a stranger and if I needed to stop to read a map/ask for directions to only do it in a brightly lit area (ideally a gas station/supermarket) close to the doors.

             1. I’ve literally never locked my car except when I was leaving it unattended. Never occurred to me to do this. I grew up in and currently live in very safe Midwest college towns, but I’ve also lived in some big cities/metro areas (Boston and Bay Area).

             2. Nope. I live in a very rich suburb/exurb of Boston. I don’t lock our cars at all. Usually they are in the garage but sometimes not. I lock our front door when I remember and our walk out basement doors because if I don’t they will blow open but there are other doors in my home that are often left unlocked for long periods of time.
                When I get gas or go to the grocery store I do not lock my car. I drive a minivan full of crackers and single mittens.

             3. Never have I locked my car doors while getting gas. In fact, the thought never even occurred to me until I read this thread? A definite “today years old” when I learned this type of thing. I also never lock my car when I return a grocery cart. I live in a mid-sized midwestern city now, but growing up in a small town in the south, we left the keys in the car ignition most nights. (And I am in my 30s so this wasn’t 4 eternities ago.) Never thought twice about it and it was never an issue, though I’d certainly never do that now.

             4. Anon at 11:43 – minivans can sometimes be a target for thieves because they can be used to steal bikes, motorcycles, etc with the back seats ripped out.
                Source – my wife’s hand-me-down minivan was stolen (in Springfield, not Arlington).

             5. Anonymous at 11:43 – every couple of years, there are a rash of thefts in Wellesley from people leaving their home and car doors unlocked.

             6. Another reason to lock cars: there was a case a few years ago, in Baltimore I believe, where a kid with autism got into an unlocked car, locked himself in, couldn’t figure out how to get out. He wasn’t found for a few days and it was summer, so… not a happy ending.

                I don’t understand not locking cars unless you are parked in a closed garage. Especially now with remote locks – beep beep, car is locked!

             7. I thought all people locked their car doors until I met my husband, who grew up on a farm in the middle of nowhere and thinks it is dangerous to lock car doors because you might not be able to exit the car after an accident. I settled the question by asking the police officer who taught my self defense-class. She said to lock the doors.

          3. Same! Minute you get in the car lock it. It’s never not locked.

    3. Damn — when I lived there it was so nicely boring. What is going on?!

    4. If it makes you feel any better, crime has increased where I live, NYC surrounding area. Cars are being vandalized, people are stealing catalytic converters, etc. I don’t think this is isolated to the DC area.

       1. Heck, people are stealing catalytic converters in my small city of 300k. Somebody was arrested for it this morning according to local facebook.

          1. Catalytic converter theft is everywhere

          2. My catalytic converter got stolen in my small suburb of 50k. It’s everywhere. 5 got stolen in my town in 1 week! A couple months ago, they stole them from all the school buses.

       2. Armed carjackings and violent crime has increased dramatically in Philly as well. It’s one of the reasons we moved out of the city last year

          1. Yes, sadly we moved out of Philly last year too. Didn’t feel safe anymore, even in a “very nice” neighborhood.

19. https://www.arlnow.com/2023/02/27/arlington-police-investigating-weekend-carjacking-near-courthouse/

    1. Nesting fail

20. Talk to me about Wellbutrin. We’re considering adding it to my mix largely because upping the dose of my existing meds barely moved the needle, and also because I’m constantly exhausted by the effort of pushing through anxiety and depression. I’ve got another few months in therapy before I think we’ll see resolution; right now, I’m right in the scary thick of it. I feel like this board has generally been pro-Wellbutrin. Any downsides I should consider?

    1. It didn’t work for me (no side effects, I just felt nothing), but I agree that this board seems to like it so the only thing you can do is try. Everyone’s bodies respond differently to that sort of thing.

       1. Good to know it’s not magic — that’s helpful.

          1. Well… you never know.

             It might be for you. That’s why your doctor is considering it.

             Everyone is different. Which is frustrating….

       2. What did work for you? My son is taking generic wellbutrin and not feeling the effects he’d like to feel. He just feels sort of dull.

    2. It can make anxiety worse. But it helped me so much with terrible fatigue from the SSRI I had tried previously. Since fatigue was my main symptom of depression, that really wasn’t helpful! I also lost about 20 pounds, which was fine for me, but could be a concern for some people.

    3. I loved it. You just need to make sure that your doctor does blood work 4-6 weeks after starting because sadly it didn’t agree with my liver at all and I had to stop.

    4. I liked it while I was taking it, but when I stopped, I realized that some issues I’d been having (sweating profusely very frequently, significant hair thinning) that I didn’t connect to the Wellbutrin becuase they came on graudally over time were actually side effects. The sweating stopped pretty quickly and the hair seems to be slowly starting to grow back in.

    5. So, take this with a grain of salt, I don’t have depression but my doctor prescribed it as a “it might work, let’s see” for low s*x drive with a potential added benefit of appetite suppression. I’ve been on it for a year (150 mg at first, now 300 mg) and to be honest have no idea if it does anything beyond mild appetite suppression. But I keep taking it because it’s cheap and I worry that my baseline mood has now changed and if I go off of it, I’ll feel less happy and gain weight. Not a great reason to keep taking it, I know.

       No negative side effects whatsoever as far as I can tell. Apparently it actually helps with REM sleep.

       My dad successfully used it 20 years ago to quit smoking, also.

    6. I’ve tried it twice in the past few years and both times quit taking it within a week because it gave me terrible insomnia. Maybe I didn’t give it enough of a chance, but whatever benefits it might have weren’t worth the side effects for me.

       1. This is me. I loved it except for the insomnia. It got so bad that it wasn’t worth it.

    7. I added it last year and have been weirdly sweaty since adding it. Not the worst side effect but just different enough to be annoying. I do feel better on it though!

       1. I commented above but had the same side effect. It was honestly pretty embarrassing how much I was sweating, especially on my head which of course is where it shows most…

          1. Yes!!! The face and head sweating is so annoying…one awkward conversation or a slightly strenuous walk and my face and head are definitely out of “glistening” territory and into “drops rolling down my face” territory…

    8. It has a long ramp up period (it can make symptoms of anxiety worse for the first six to eight weeks which can feel like forever; after that it can actually improve anxiety and is more calming).

       I’m pretty pro-Wellbutrin (especially as compared to SSRIs), but I definitely called my psychiatrist and my pharmacist during the ramp up to complain. I’m glad they talked me into sticking with it though since everything went just the way predicted, and it was like a different, better med after that.

    9. I think it depends on the mix of how well your anxiety vs depression are managed. It made my anxiety worse when it was already not well controlled. But if your anxiety is well controlled and you’re more concerned about depression/energy level, then I think it sounds like a good thing to try.

    10. My husband took it and it caused weight gain and didn’t really work so he went off it. But hey all work differently for different people!

        1. Wellbutrin is so unlikely to cause weight gain that it’s included as part of Contrave! I wonder what happened there. I would not expect this to happen.

           1. Well that’s what his doctor thought too, but it was a direct correlation and weight came off when he stopped. Doc said it can have that effect, just not common. YMMV.

              1. It is interesting; thank you for mentioning it! It really seems like many psych meds can cause the same symptoms they’re supposed to address a minority of the time (SSRIs causing depression and suicidality in a subset of patients; benzos causing panic attacks in a subset of patients, etc.). I guess it confirms that they’re definitely throwing a wrench into some relevant things, but occasionally in the wrong direction.

    11. Wellbutrin makes a huge difference for me and didn’t have any side effects. I’m on a fairly low dose of it but it’s been key for me. All of the therapy, exercise, sleep in the world is great but Wellbutrin is ultimately what makes the difference

    12. I took it to try to counteract some of the side effects from Prozac I was having. It didn’t make much a difference. I also had a seizure while I was on it and after a ton of testing, the only thing they could attribute the seizure to was the Wellbutrin.

        1. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was; Wellbutrin is pretty well understood to lower the seizure threshold.

    13. I would first ask your doctors about titrating off of one of your other meds. Unfortunately, some doctors will keep piling on meds to counteract symptoms from the other meds. Are you getting your prescriptions from a psychiatrist? If not, I highly recommend seeing one who is good with medication management.

        I’m currently on Venlafaxine (Effexor), Lamotrigine (Lamictal), Wellbutrin, Xanax (as needed – rare), and trazodone (for sleep). It’s just so much and I’m sure that there has been some positive impact (trazodone especially) but not enough. I’m seeing a new psychiatrist for a 2nd opinion on my meds and an adhd eval. There are 2 reasons: 1) it’s just so many and I’d like to figure out what will work with fewer meds; and 2) some technical/file management issues that keep happening at my current psychiatrist.

        For ramping up on Wellbutrin, there are a fair amount of symptoms that can arise in the first few weeks. It is very common for people to drop it during this period of time. If you really want to give it a go, stick it out until 8 weeks. That’s when you’ll really know if it’s working.

        1. Whew! That is a lot. I hope as you get up on the Welbutrin you can taper off the effexor or the lamictal. Good luck.

    14. I tried Contrave, which contains bupropion, and it gave me really crippling brain fog and anxiety. Since I was using it for a cosmetic reason (weight loss) I didn’t push through the ramp up period.

    15. Worked for me almost immediately and I’ve now been on it for about 4 years. I think I had weird dreams for a little bit when I first started but otherwise no side effects. Was hoping it would help with my ADHD too, but it didn’t. Either way, it has been massively helpful for my depression.

    16. Thanks, all. This actually made me wonder if upping the dose of current med might be why I’m so exhausted, and it turns out that’s a side effect. Lots to discuss when I see doctor next week.

    17. I loved Wellbutrin, it really worked for me (depression + ADHD). I was on 300mg for several years with no problems. I then went through a super stressful time so they bumped me up to max dosage (450mg) and after 6 months I had an extremely RARE side effect occur (seizure) so I had to go off completely forever :( Honestly, the worst part is knowing that my mental health and productivity CAN be that good, but only on the Forbidden medication….

21. Are any of you considering retiring to a different country? I’m in the process of being a dual EU citizen in addition to current US citizen, and am dreaming about the possibility of retiring to Portugal/Italy/Spain but wonder if I’m being hopelessly naive. Thinking about healthcare benefits, better weather, not as many guns etc.

    1. Doesn’t sound that crazy. Lots of Europeans do this, i.e. Germans or British spending retirement in Mallorca or elsewhere in Spain is a thing. Some British then were surprised that all kinds of barriers popped up for them after Brexit.

    2. I like this idea, though I’d more likely look at South America, but I can’t imagine leaving behind my entire social network. Perhaps I will feel differently in 20 years, but right now I can’t see it.

    3. My parents moved to Portugal. They are fine on permanent residence but my mom is doing language intensives to get her citizenship.

       They love it! Cost of living is great compared with the (far) Bay Area, it’s a bit cooler, medical care is great and affordable. They are north of Lisbon so not an expat area and that suits them. They didn’t want to be in the algarve which attracts a certain type of English retiree.

       There are tax advantages but they aren’t in that financial position.

    4. I love the idea, but realistically I’ll go where my child is and be involved in her family (assuming she wants that). My parents did that for us and it’s been wonderful.

       1. Yeah my parents’ move to Portugal was motivated by a desire to be closer (I moved from California to the UK in my late 20s)

    5. We know people who retired young and did that but as they aged, getting good medical care of the cancer / hip replacement sort brought them back. It was a fun 10 years for them but I suspect I will retire too late to have 10 easy years. So I expect I may not take this route.

       1. Even in the US, my parents in their 70s originally retired out on the Olympic Peninsula, but it’s an hours long drive to Seattle for specialty medical care after a few different things came up for them. They decided to move within easy driving distance of a major medical center as they felt it gets harder and harder to move as you get older.

    6. My problem is I really want to do this but spouse does not. I think this is going to be the first time that our age difference (he’s 17 years older) creates dramatically different perspectives.

       1. Oof… That’s a hard age difference/retirement difference.

          I’m going to hope for you that while he is in his first “phase” of retirement, taking care of the home and you while you are still working (!), he will be happy staying in place. But by the time you retire, he will be “ready” for a change and a life of travel that living in Europe may help facilitate!

          1. Yeah I think in this case the age difference might actually help? I think it would be harder if you were retiring at the same time and had very different ideas for how retirement would look.

22. Does anyone have a recommendation for a lighthearted, uplifting book that’s not a rom com? I could use a pick me up and reading a good, happy book before bed seems like it might help. Thanks!

    1. Remarkably Bright Creatures– Shelby Van Pelt

    2. I just finished Amazingly Bright Creatures by Shelby van Pelt, and think it could work for your purposes. The main character is a widower whose child died 30 years before the story takes place — so there is some dealing with grief — but, all the characters are likeable, the story itself is well-written but not deep, and the ending is satisfyingly happy.

    3. It’s older, but 84 Charing Cross Road is tremendously upliting. I also like the James Herriot books for this, he talks about meeting/marrying his wife but they mainly focus on his work as a rural vet and the hijinks that ensue.

       1. Oh, that reminds me — maybe along similar lines, what about the Peter Mayle books? About his and his wife’s retirement in the south of France, also with a healthy dose of hijinks. I read them a few years ago but remember them being laugh-out-loud funny.

       2. +1 million for James Herriot!

       3. These are both wonderful recommendations.

    4. I mentioned a couple on the book thread yesterday that you might like:
       To Say Nothing of the Dog by Connie Willis
       Bomb Shelter by Mary Laura Philpott (I laughed at half the book and highlighted the other half; it may make you cry but in a good, I-feel-seen way)
       I’ll also throw in a rec for Rosamunde Pilcher. Sometimes her books deal with heavy topics, but they are always full of rich, cozy detail and have a lovely hopeful attitude, and treat said heavy topics with a light hand that doesn’t attempt to take you on an emotional rollercoaster. My favorite is probably Winter Solstice.

       1. Also, hear me out on this one: Ina Garten cookbooks are excellent bedtime reading if you can’t handle the possibility of Big Feelings right before bed.

       2. Diary of a Bookseller by Shaun Blythell

    5. -Second the Remarkably Bright Creatures recommendation. Marcellus (the octopus) really made me chuckle when I listened to the audiobook.
       -Nothing to see here (really good audiobook)
       -Harry’s Trees (there is a grief element, but the story is uplifting)
       -Anxious People (good if you want quirky)

       1. Anxious People is ultimately uplifting but I wouldn’t call it light-hearted. It has some heavy themes and really destroyed me emotionally. I loved it! Just wouldn’t recommend it for someone who wants light-hearted reading.

          1. Good point, everyone has a different perspective. I thought it was light, I laughed a lot at the absurdity. “[A] witty, lighthearted romp…Backman charms.” —Publishers Weekly

    6. There is a little romance/ but wouldn’t call it a rom com: the very secret society of irregular witches. Random one to check out is A psalm for the wild-built by Becky chambers, just a lighthearted nature walk involving a robot. Before bed I also like anthologies, so you can finish one short story. Recent one i liked was The Anthropocene Reviewed by John Green.

       1. Second Becky Chambers. I like the Wayfarers series best. The Long Way to a Small Angry Planet and The Galaxy, and the Ground Within are the most uplifting. The other two books in the series are heavier but also ultimately life-affirming. The Monk and Robot books are nice, but there’s just not much to them and they end too soon.

       2. Second Very Secret Society of Irregular Witches as a super cute read but kind of disagree it’s not a romance? The romance plot is at least as important as the non-romance plot IMO.

    7. If you’re into fantasy stuff at all, I recommend any of the Terry Pratchett Discworld books. They’re all pretty self contained, so you can start anywhere. They’re humorous and uplifting and exciting enough to be page turners.

    8. Ok so this is odd but if you’re not opposed to YA, Stuart Gibbs’ Space Case and Last Musketeer series are actually really fun and engaging – no romance, just light-hearted adventure with IMO laugh-out-loud moments and witty writing.

23. Can you all shop for me? I want cute, fun sneakers!

    Not for serious exercise – more like taking my kids to the park, amusement parks, casual get togethers with friends. I wear size 11s, so they need to look cute on massive feet. Any recs?

    1. I have my eye on these: https://www.6pm.com/p/reebok-glide-ripple-white-pure-grey-porcelain-pink/product/9817375/color/1025806
       The colors remind me of the original My Little Ponies.

       1. These are cute but I feel like my giant feet would look like beluga whales in these.

          1. Totally! I hate the white sneaker trend (unless you are actually working out at the gym!), and stick with more simple/sleek/darker styles for my huge feet.

       2. I have the nike daybreak sneakers. Slightly retro, athletic shoe comfy, but still look like an outfit. Mine are red, which are also the same as the ones I had in third grade.

    2. I am an 11 and love my Vejas.

    3. I just got a pair of Ecco Soft 7 shoes (in Magnet) and love them! Sort of like Converse sneakers but nicer.

    4. Check out the New Balance WS327

24. How focused are you re: saving for retirement? I just made a likely unwise move of cashing out my modest retirement ($40k) savings in order to pay for a graduate degree that will hopefully enable me to have a higher quality of life and not feel miserable about the prospect of working another 20-30 years. I am 40, was in education before, so don’t have many social security credits and was not vested in the pension system. Degree will lead to mental health counselor licensure, and my plan is to go into private practice. Spouse earns a fairly high income ($150k) but also has fairly modest retirement savings m, yet many social security credits.

    1. Once you’re done with school, retirement savings will need to be priority 1 so you can take advantage of what time is left for compounding. Alternately, you’ll need to find a public sector job with a pension that vests in 20 and stick with it.

       1. This, absolutely. I was super lucky to get a government job with a penson, plus both 401(k) and 403(b) with match, when I was 42, and that’s what saved me after pretty much ignoring retirement savings up to that point. I feel like your 40s is when you need to get serious about retirement — I’m retiring this year at 65 and I’ll be fine but you can’t sleep through your 40s and expect things to work out by themselves.

    2. I don’t really understand cashing out your account when you make $150k. Can’t you pay for school out of that? Do you have no other savings? I wouldn’t say there are never reasons to take money out of retirement accounts, but this one does raise some red flags for me.

       1. We have two kids, so childcare/educational costs plus my spouse’s student loan payments eat up a lot of our income.

       2. Adding to clarify this. Our joint income is also a bit less than $150k. If we had a sudden $40k expense, it would come out of our emergency fund or we’d take out a loan if one was available at a decent interest rate (like for a car, though I know they’re higher these days than in the past). We’d also cut back on spending or saving if we had to. I would only take the money out of retirement if there were truly no other options. You’ll lose so much of it to penalties and taxes that it just doesn’t make sense.

    3. Less so than before the pandemic. Before the pandemic we were really focused on maxing out or getting as close to it as we could (we have higher limits than most people, so we never technically maxed out but we contributed a lot). Now I feel like there are so many things that might disrupt our retirement (pandemics, climate change, etc) and I want to enjoy our money now rather than waiting another 30+ years. We still put money into retirement, but less than before and we don’t have strict goals. I agree that completely cashing out your retirement at age 40 would give me pause though.

    4. Not particularly? I max out the match from my employer which takes me to a total of 21% of salary going into my pension pot (Uk equivalent to 401k) and beyond that I’m more concerned about my general prosperity. I won’t be retiring until 2060ish though.

    5. My short answer is this: I act like Social Security won’t exist by then and my husband’s assets will be absent and then try to make a plan around that picture. My goal is for the house to be paid off and my 401(k) to float a comfortable life here (no travel and no splurges). Given that I will probably have at least one of Social Security or husband’s retirement funds, the addition of one or both of those factors will take it from comfortable to very nice. But I plan for the worst case scenario where the factors I don’t control all go against me.

    6. DH and I really focused on retirement savings early in our life together (we dated for a while before we got married). We are just shy of 40 and have quite a bit stashed away (we currently have about 3x our combined incomes, and a good portion of that is post-tax dollars), so we’ve eased up a bit now that we have young kids that are in their prime traveling years. Money that we would have previously squirrelled away into retirement goes to fun vacations or to visit aging family in other states. We are saving for their education in parallel- our last is going to K next year and we will funnel most of the childcare costs into the 529s. We do max DH’s 401 and I have my own business so I throw every penny possible into my self employed 401k, which is quite a bit.

       The very best advice anyone ever gave me was to get in the habit of saving for retirement. My first job out of college paid $26k in 2005 and I still saved a bit for retirement despite having to live in Boston on that salary!

    7. I’m focused enough that I would not have made the move you just made.

       I am not trying to make you feel bad, legitimately and I realize the deed is done so no use crying over spilt milk. But there are a lot of alternatives to cashing out your 401k to pay for a grad degree, especially at your age. The opportunity cost on having that money vs. keeping it in the market is considerable. Not to mention the taxes and fees you’ll pay to get the money out.

       I also think you may be overly focusing on Social Security credits. Read about caps on Social Security payouts – high earners cannot earn anything close to what they made in salary via Social Security – and also, I am sure you’re aware that SS is going insolvent in the near future. We will still get payouts, but they’ll only be a percentage of what we could have gotten, unless someone gets enough political will and cooperation to fix the system. And I’m not betting the farm on that happening any time soon.

    8. I’m in my mid-40s and I feel behind with $253k currently in my retirement accounts, so more than some perhaps. I max out my 401k, HSA, and IRA accounts every year and have a healthy HY savings account balance.

    9. Not terribly focused. We’re late 30s with about $400k in retirement funds between us. We cumulatively save about $20k/year in voluntary contributions plus another $20k in mandatory contributions and employer contributions. We’ll be done paying for daycare in September and are planning to redirect most of that money to retirement, which would bump our voluntary contributions up to more like $30-35k. I also want some cash savings because my husband’s income is somewhat variable and he may take a substantial pay cut beginning in 2025 so for the last year or so we’ve trying to put $1-2k/month in a high interest rate savings account and short term CDs. Also my parents are pretty well off (net worth >$5M) so we’ll likely inherit some money from them. I’ll admit the prospective inheritance makes it harder to motivate myself to save.

25. Another coworker is leaving. I suspect there will be a meeting about it shortly. Is it a terrible idea to say (in better words) that I have felt underemployed and underutilized since being hired and would gladly just take on the responsibilities left by this person if it helps the company not to go through the wringer again trying to hire someone else?

    There are many issues with retention, delegation, management, etc., but this coworker is not leaving because of them. I’m pregnant and due in a month, which I realize can change the answer, but also means I’m not leaving right now regardless of the issues. Thoughts?

    1. Yes, but don’t say that in a big meeting. Offer it to your boss separately. Perhaps with more specifics on what your background is and what you can take on. And never leave before you leave – you’re there until day 1 of mat leave and hen when you come back.

       1. +1 to all of this.

       2. Great advice, thanks. Fortunately we’re part of a team where we all essentially have the same job title, it’s just a matter of sharing the work, so I’m not volunteering for anything I don’t need to know how to do anyway.

          The only thing that hangs me up is possibly being mommy-tracked. The partner who is effectively the boss is super traditional and I 100% see him saying, “Well, we don’t want to give you all that stuff when you’re about to go out on leave.”

          1. I’d probably personally follow up with a reality check in how long leave is (typically about the same time as finding someone else) and saying you can pick it up when you get back.

             1. Thank you, that’s a great point!

       3. I agree with all this! Would also encourage a lot of thought into the messaging before you speak to your boss. And also (privately) do you REALLY want to take these responsibilities on at this moment? The first months back from maternity leave were rocky for me and I was glad I had a stable job where I could slightly lean out until things got better.

          1. Honestly, I don’t know how post-leave is going to feel, but right now, I am UNBELIEVABLY BORED. And like I said above, we’re all essentially performing the same function, so I would just be forcing management’s hand to actually teach me more of what I need to know (something I feel has been lacking). I wouldn’t phrase it that way to them, of course, but that’s the answer to your question.

    2. A coworker leaving is an amazing time to take over your favorite work! I would say something to your boss about, “When I get back from leave, I’d love to take over so-and-so’s X, Y, and Z. I love those parts of my role / I always wanted to handle that /etc.” Keep it positive.

26. I want to treat my sister to a fun weekend away for her upcoming 40th birthday. We’re in Chicago so I was thinking southwest Michigan, but also open to something in the city or suburbs. Or a quick flight away!

    Thinking a combination of good food, shopping, and maybe some spa treatments at a cute boutique hotel. Otherwise totally open to destinations. Where would you go?

    1. I’ve always wanted to go to Mackinaw Island, which I think is close-ish to Chicago (the planes, trains and automobiles aspect of getting there has kept me from pursuing it). I believe it’s seasonal but open in May.

       1. Not that close. A 6-7 hour drive plus a ferry. Southeast MI is way closer.

    2. My friend owns garden grove B&B in union pier. It’s super cute and close to wineries, the distillery, etc. we’ve done a couple girls trips there.

    3. When are you traveling? Lots of easy flights from Chicago. AZ (Scottsdale?) Asheville? Savannah or Charleston? Palm Beach?

       1. +1 to all of these if you want to fly. Cancun is also only like a 3 hour flight from Chicago and usually pretty affordable. There are some fabulous adults only resorts there that won’t break the bank.

    4. I just celebrated my 40th at the Kohler spa in Wisconsin – highly recommend! (I’m also in Chicago and it’s a pretty quick drive).

       1. Interesting – I’m not the OP but I hadn’t heard of this and live in Chicago.

          I hate websites that don’t tell you prices. Can you share a vague range of costs/length of your stay?

          1. We went for two nights and stayed in the carriage house, which is the building where the spa is. If you get a spa treatment you can use the spa all day – everyone walks around the carriage house/spa in robes. It’s really, really nice. My stay was a gift but I think my partner got some kind of package that was about $1500 for the two nights, plus two spa treatments and maybe a good credit. Also included free classes at a nice nearby yoga studio. We didn’t get any shopping done but did have some good food on-site. (Lunch at the spa was actually very good). It’s not cheap but I thought it was a special/super nice experience for a milestone event.

             1. That’s not bad at all for such an experience. Sounds great. Thanks for sharing.

       2. I love the Kohler spa too. It is nearby and sooo relaxing and indulgent. Stay in the Carriage House and each room is unique with, obviously, amazing showers and baths.

27. I just want to talk about this and I’m not sure who to so here goes.

    Got my bonus today! 10%, which seems middle-high at my company. After taxes and about $1800 to my 401k that comes out to ~$5500. I feel very responsible because I’ve put $1k each in cash savings, investments (gotta invest it now!), and my Roth IRA. This does give me enough money to cover some more-expensive-than-expected trips too.

    1. Congratulations!

    2. Nice! Well done you.

    3. Congratulations! I got mine today too (or at least confirmation of the number, money to come over the next few months). Putting a chunk of mine in a savings pot for a 30th birthday trip and overpaying my student loan with the rest.

       1. Nice!

          I saw your comment upthread about not worrying too much about retirement and I’ve been thinking about that too. We’re the same age, not retiring anytime soon – but a pretty big chunk of this is going to retirement savings.

          I guess I feel like I don’t have much in loans and am not actively saving to buy a house/car, so why not? Trips are mainly what I’m saving for now.

          I have an emergency fund. I’m iffy on marriage and kids but if I do it’ll be good to have some savings for a wedding and just kids costs. Idk if I really would buy in NYC either but I guess good to save up for that just in case too.

          1. The main reason I don’t worry about retirement is that I’m saving a LOT into retirement already so there’s no need to worry. Plus as mentioned upthread I work in climate policy so it might all be a wash (literally) by my 2060 retirement date

    4. YAY!! Good job!!

    5. That’s awesome, good for you!!

    6. Hooray!! Congratulations!!

28. coach gift advice:

    My kiddo’s basketball team has 3 coaches.
    Coach 1- Dad of player on team (technically may be head coach- main point of communication)
    Coach 2- Mom of player on team
    Assistant Coach- High school girl, daughter of Coach 2, sister of player on team, gets school volunteer hours for coaching. She also is always driven by her mom, and isn’t always at every practice/game because of other conflicts, but i would say is at a good 80% of stuff.

    I have $150 to spend on end of season thank you gifts.
    Card + $50 gift card each (to starbucks, local sporting store, or amazon)?
    Card + token edible gift (special bakery type treat) + gift card each?
    Card + flowers for Coach 2, Card + edible type treat for Coach 1 and assistant coach + token GC for each?
    Bigger gifts for the adults and a token for the assistant coach?

    When I’ve done these in the past, I’ve either known the coaches a bit better, plus this is the first time there is a kid involved. I’ve done Craft Beer giftcards, wine + GC to a local brunch place, etc to other coaches when I know those would be used. I’ve also usually had a slightly higher budget as soccer and softball teams have more players than basketball teams :)

    1. If coach 1 is truly the head coach, I would probably do a card for each, plus a $75 gift card for coach 1, $50 for coach 2 and $25 for coach 3. There is a lot of extra admin work that is generally done by the head coach in my experience with youth sports. I don’t think baked goods or flowers are necessary.

       1. OP here; Coach 2 does all the admin as far as I can tell, including being super on the ball about grabbing extra gym time when slots pop up. I consider them equal. Coach 2 is a veteran youth sports coach and this is Coach 1’s first time coaching ever. They were both excellent.

          1. Oh got it. Then I would definitely give an equal amount to coach 1 and coach 2, and less (or a token gift) to coach 3.

       2. I would give the same amount to everyone. For the vast majority of adults, $50 isn’t going to be meaningful. It’s a sign of thanks and you are thankful for them all.

          When are the gifts being given? I would do small treats for the whole team so it feels party like, and then cards with a gc. I don’t like the idea of individual gifts unless you know them all enough to pick things they would like. Otherwise, it just comes off very gendered to me

    2. Don’t give any of them gifts this is so weird

       1. These sounds like team gifts, which are very normal ime

       2. It’s not weird in our town for youth sports, which are all parent coached. I already have all the contributions from other parents so I’m obviously getting a gift. It’s not from me personally!

       3. IME we haven’t done gifts for coaches

29. Talk to me about big law vs in-house. Im a second career lawyer, so 47 and still a big law associate. I can stay at my firm for probably another 5 years (?) bc I’m a specialist, but likely won’t get promoted. Or I can try to go in-house. If I go in-house, maybe I won’t feel so awkward at being so freaking old compared to the other associates. But it would also be a 25% (?) paycut? More than that? I’m at 75% part-time salary. Ugh, these golden handcuffs chafe… Not sure I could even get an in-house position due to my age/seniority.

    1. If it’s just the money, the in-house cut is temporary and often offset by much better benefits. Also much more career mobility. I left a firm 20 years ago for in-house and never looked back. I out-earned my law firm salary by year 5, am a GC now and far outpace my law firm peers. My advice, go in now, don’t wait. There are a lot of junior positions and we tend to prefer people with more experience in life (you play better with clients). You also get the benefit of being more junior, there’s room to go up and less pressure to do it quickly.

       1. I should add I’m an 11th year associate. But thank you for the thoughtful comment.

       2. GCs make more than Big Law partners? I’m not disputing that in-house lawyers, especially exec level ones, make plenty of money, but I don’t see how you could be outpacing your peers who stayed in private practice.

          1. depends on how good of a rainmaker you are, I guess, but GCs of major companies are often well into 7 figures for comp.

          2. Stock grants my dear.

          3. I am a deputy GC at an F50 (so one level down from GC). I make more than I did as a non equity biglaw partner, by about 30k, and have much cheaper health insurance. That said, my husband is a big law equity partner (at the high end of his firm’s comp table) and he makes more than our GC.

    2. I don’t really understand your question – you seem to understand in-house typically pays less than Biglaw, but the drop varies by job, seniority, and market. If you want to go in-house you will be most marketable if you seek to broaden your skill set (e.g., if you’re an ERISA specialist, pick up some labor work so you have more experience for an HR support role).

    3. Listen, I made a million dollars in option comp three years out of law school because I joined a startup, and then they did a SPAC. If you know the right people in tech, and you know your stuff, and you get lucky…yes, even junior lawyers make way more than biglaw in tech. It can happen. (It will not happen for the next few years due to valuations and IPO markets being closed, but it can happen.)

       1. And by “made a million dollars” I mean–that’s not paper gains–it hit my bank account and then I paid an absurd tax bill.

30. I need something lightweight to put over a workout tank – I live in a warm climate (think NOLA).

    After exercising, if I am running errands, popping into a coffeeshop, taking kids places/doing school pick-up, want something that makes me look more pulled together and also protects from frigid A/C without overheating. Any suggestions? I feel like my current hoodies are too warm for this function.

    1. The Uniqlo thin hoodies with sunprotection.

    2. What about an oversized linen/cotton button up? I have a men’s stand collar white button up that I wear all the time in the summer over tank tops and sleeveless dresses.

    3. If you’re basic like me, Lululemon define jacket.

31. Which do you think is more versatile for ankle boots: suede or smooth leather? I have always bought leather but am thinking of mixing things up. However, new boots will be the only pair I have so they need to be versatile.

    1. Suede is a nice for wearing with lighter clothes in spring and summer, but you really need to weatherproof it for rain or snow.

       1. Suede is such a winter material in my mind, and leather is year-round versatile

          1. I bet we’re thinking of different colors!

    2. I have suede boots from Blondo that are waterproof and I really like them.

    3. I think it depends on what kind of versatility – like tan or cognac suede booties work for more seasons, but black leather ones can work for more levels of formality.
       Seconding the blondo rec — I have a cognac suede block heel pair that has survived several MN winters & still look fantastic (and I’ve done little to no maintenance on them).

    4. Well, of course having weather-proof boots makes them more versatile. If they aren’t waterproof, go with the smooth leather, and still “waterproof” them yourself.

       I love my black suede boots and booties from La Canadienne and Aquatalia, which are excellent quality and water/winter proof. I also have a deep burgundy/cranberry suede pair. But I still am very careful with them.. Every season, cleaning and re-treating with water protectant (you can do or bring to your local cobbler). Make sure they dry off after wearing. Always remove residual dirty snow/salt soon after wearing.

       But they can last for many many years if you care for them well. I wait for the sales (especially Black Friday and post Xmas) and then pounce on styles I have been coveting.

32. Does anyone read the Ask a Manager column? Someone wrote in today about what sounds like a BigLaw firm (or something operating on a similar model like Big 4 accounting). And boy, neither AAM nor most of the commenters get it.

    To be clear, I’m not saying the BigLaw model isn’t effed up in a million ways but the idea of just saying “sorry I can only work forty hours this week so let me know which deliverable I should work on. “. lol.

    1. Agreed. I work in healthcare and I don’t think the post is about healthcare, but we can’t just “set limits” and respect when others do. Patients will literally die. I truly don’t know the answer to this (our system is so, so broken) but geez.

       1. Also in health care, and assumed the LW was not.

          It’s true that people may literally die from our maintaining work-life boundaries. Hospitals/employers also exploit that fact by expecting us to give and give indefinitely.

          1. +1

             When I was working crazy hours in the hospital, and also getting frustrated how many mistakes were being made in the hospital because people were cutting corners and doing less, I remember that a senior doctor told me…… “well… it actually takes a lot to kill someone…..” A sad statement of that actually reflected a sense of despair.

             If the public really knew what was going on behind the scenes…..

             1. +10000. I’ve also heard terrible treatment described as “better than nothing” (ok? the bar we’re trying to clear is “nothing” in health care?). One time my supervisor also said she was having trouble keeping track of “the clinical piece” of our work (is actual patient care a “piece,” to be tacked on only after paperwork and insurance are given their due?)

       2. Yeah I work in security/intelligence so if sh!t is going down, it’s going down. I wish there were a better way to compensate or promote work-life balance in careers where we don’t have the luxury of just stepping away…

    2. I’ve read it. I wouldn’t say they don’t “get it.” I just don’t think AAM or the commenters think the expectations described are reasonable, even considering the pay, and accept the consequences of that–i.e. not working in such an industry and not making that kind of money.

       The LW themselves is saying they’re not ok with their working conditions. I guess AAM could have just advised quitting, or else not run the letter at all because there’s no point in trying to assert boundaries with this kind of employer…?

       1. They’re not wrong but yeah. You need to quit; it’s not going to work to say you’re not going to pick up the work the junior associates dropped and “management” will have to figure something else out.

       2. Agree – the existence of big law doesn’t mean AAM is wrong. AAM’s response is pretty standard and reasonable. The LW didn’t specify that they’re in big law, it could still be somewhere else, in which case this advice makes sense. If they are in big law thats a whole can of worms, but you can’t expect anyone to tell you that big law is reasonable, it just isn’t.

    3. I think a contingent of us here still read AAM for the ridiculousness of the commenters, because the advice AAM gives has been less and less in quality over the years.

       1. I think that’s because Alison hasn’t worked in an office for years.

    4. Yeah, you can draw and have to draw boundaries regardless of where you work, but in Big Law those boundaries are “I won’t answer 3 am emails immediately” not “I only work 40 hours/week.”

       1. This.

       2. Ha, yes, I worked at a Big4 and was part of a team norms meeting pre-pandemic. The planning meeting included setting out the team’s vacation/non-negotiable times off, etc. The ‘boundaries’ people set were things like ‘I have daycare pickup at 5, so I’ll only be able to take phone calls from 5-7, but will be back online after till midnight’ or ‘I’m pumping and I need 15 minutes breaks every 3 hours but I can review docs in the mother’s room’ and ‘my sister’s wedding is in June, so I’ll need off that F/S/S but can cover weekends the rest of the engagement’ not – I shut down at 6 and don’t open email till 9am the next day. It is very much an up or out environment. Like BigLaw they buy your time and expect you to pay to outsource most of your chores (there was in house dry cleaning, gyms, cafeterias, shoe repair, concierge services for appointments, etc in the big city offices to help with this). You learn a ton but it is not for everyone!

          1. I wonder if the LW on AAM had the “team norms” explained to her when she started at the job? This sounds like a great thing, all workplaces should have this kind of expectation-setting meeting with new people. But I know a lot of places don’t do this, and they just expect people to pick up on how to act and what boundaries are reasonable. I would also think that hopefully, if she was going into Big Law or Big Accounting or Big Consulting, someone at her school, in her life or in her job-search process would have explained the expectations to her? It’s a bad thing to figure out at this late date – yeah, this is the norm and either you get on board or you find another job.

       3. Yeah. Not just for big law – the environment is as it is because you sometimes get a 28 day or 14 day deadline of when something is going to be due. Some of those things are tremendously complex to put together and is going to require an all hands on deck effort.

          No judge anywhere is going to give you an extension on a court deadline because your associates refused to work after 5.

    5. I’ve just read the letter and I read it very differently from how you apparently read it. Leaving Alison’s response aside, the letter writer clearly says that multiple junior colleagues ARE setting boundaries. So while y’all are equating ‘I would never’ with ‘that could never happen in our industry’, it IS happening in the letter writer’s firm. Based on what I usually read here about BigLaw, I’d expect that these boundary-setting employees would be on thin ice employment wise, but if that were the case, would the letter writer be so conflicted and wouldn’t they mention this aspect?

       I find this part especially interesting “On the one hand, I completely applaud them for taking care of themselves and not blindly subscribing to unsustainable expectations. On the other hand, doing this independently on an individual level (instead of starting a broader conversation about work-life balance at the firm, which admittedly would go nowhere) sort of screws over other members of the team, such as myself…”

       Soooo fascinating that change in workplace norms may come about, not because leadership has seen the light and deigns to improve working conditions, but because workers just collectively stop buying into tradeoffs that no longer work for them…

       1. I read it this way too.

          1. I read it this way, too, but also, if you’re a Biglaw junior associate who checks out evenings and weekends, I don’t really see a need to be paying you like $200K plus bonus.

          2. The thing that seemed weird to me in the comments was the expectation that there was such a clear delineation between what’s my responsibility and what’s Newbie’s responsibility that I could just not pick up any of Newbie’s slack and that would have zero professional repercussions for me. I’m in tech, and maybe law is different, but most of the projects I’m on have a group of people responsible for a shared outcome. Everyone has a role, but there’s lots of stuff that falls in a grey area of “I could do more/less on this; which ultimately makes Colleague’s job easier/harder”

    6. Nobody who comments at AAM gets anything about the way the real world operates.

       1. Ha, harsh but true.

       2. It’s devolved into a terrible echo chamber.

33. I’m about to see a new psychiatrist in 30 minutes (same practice as usual but had to reschedule with new person because my old psychiatrist keeps cancelling on me). I am planning to advocate for myself like never before and I’m so nervous. My heart is in my throat. Good vibes please!

    1. Good vibes!

    2. Sending good vibes, nonny. I just sent an email advocating for myself to my new psychiatrist and am basically panicking so I feel you but also, yeah, I think it’s the right thing to do.

    3. Good vibes! And good luck!

34. Have any of you ever been in a push-pull dynamic with a significant other? Were you able to fix it? I’m anxious in relationships and it’s causing my boyfriend to pull away and retreat, which is making me even more anxious (alternating between being really stressed about seeing each other / overcontributing to the relationship / subjecting the relationship to too much analysis and trying to talk about things which stresses him out and makes him retreat more). I want it to stop but don’t know how.

    1. The fix is for you to get therapy to figure out why your internal anxiety is manifesting in behavior that causes your partners to pull away. You already know you need to stop behaving like this, but behavior you exhibit due to internal conflict or stress doesn’t just go away on its own. You’ve likely been in this pattern for a long time – it has deep roots in your early experiences – and so just “trying to be different” won’t work. You have to do the emotional work with a therapist to figure out why you’re anxious/what makes you anxious; how that anxiety creates the problematic behavior (actually do some linkages – when I feel X way, this is how I act or the reverse – when I act this way, it’s because I’m feeling X) and then talk about how to change your behavior patterns. Medication can be helpful also, for some people with anxiety, but that’s definitely a conversation to have with a medical professional.

       You can’t fix or control other people; you can only fix and control yourself. So work on yourself, and if you do that work and then it turns out your partner is just a jerk with commitment issues, you can dump him and find someone who’s a better match for you. But it’s not his job to “ride out” your anxious behavior without you doing some work to try to at least understand where it’s coming from, and try to change it.

       1. Yeah I would agree with all of this. It would also help to read about attachment styles and figure out which one you have so you can work on understanding yourself and the whys for your behavior. A therapist can also help with this.

          I am an anxious attachment person and really having a third party (therapist) to unload all my relationship anxiety on has been hugely helpful. She helps me talk about why I’m feeling anxious, how to mitigate it, talks me through all the worst case scenarios…it’s really beneficial.

       2. Cosign all this. I did this (therapy) when I was dating my husband and it was so helpful, and here we are happily and un-anxiously married years later!

    2. Have you read Attached by Levine and Heller? This sounds like a classic anxious and avoidant attachment pairing which is really challenging.

       TLDR; you need to figure out what would help make you feel more secure in your relationship (e.g. when you are out of town, I need you to check in with me once a day), ask for it, then let your partner figure out if they can meet that need for you. If they can’t or won’t, this is not the relationship for you. This goes both ways btw.

       You also need to identify your anxious reactive behaviors (e.g., stalking social media and calling relentlessly if you haven’t heard from your partner for X amount of time), and recognize this is your anxious attachment and figure out how you can manage it yourself and also the ask above for your needs from your partner. It’s combination work for both of you and won’t be easy.

       This is not a relationship that would be healthy for me – someone with anxious attachment style (although well managed currently after reading that book and doing some work in therapy and more).

    3. Therapy helped me immensely with this.

    4. Can you just make an internal pact to stop yourself from blurting out whatever you are thinking for the next two weeks and see how that goes for you, while you look for a therapist and begin working through the drivers for your anxiety? Think of some things to talk about that are not “status of our relationship” or “when can I see you next” and stick with those for a while. Let him initiate your get-togethers for two weeks and fall back on a list of ways to spend your time without him in the meantime. I am sure this is not easy, but sometimes if you pre-plan, implementing a behavioral change is possible.

    5. Slightly different perspective from above: in general, I’m a non-anxious person with stable relationships in my life, so whenever I was feeling anxious in a relationship it was a pretty big red flag that something was causing it. If you’re feeling unstable in a relationship make sure you’re not gaslighting yourself.

       My husband and I have different communication styles when it comes to arguing that can mirror anxious-avoidant relationships (I like to verbalize everything and talk through issues immediately, he needs time to process things before he can address them). Again, stability was a big key for us- as soon as it was clear we were in it for the long term and a fight wasn’t the end of the relationship I was able to give him the time and space he needed. He also realized he could express some (healthy) anger and frustration in the moment and I wouldn’t shut him down so was more willing to have discussions when emotions were still running high.

    6. Are u the same person who was worried her bf would break up with her? If so – you’re not the problem, he is.

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