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Is anyone else getting on board with the flare-leg pant trend? I’m rarely an early adopter when it comes to these things, but these trousers look so much more flattering than the low-rise flares of my youth that I may have to hop on this.
Be aware that when wearing pants like these, you’re going to want to pay very careful attention to hem length. Too long, and your shoes will completely disappear, too short, and you lose the leg-lengthening effect that comes with the flares. Kat put together a great set of photos here, and I agree with her assessment — you should just be able to see the toe of your shoe and roughly an inch of the heel. When you go to the tailor, make sure you bring the shoes that you want to wear with the pants, so you can get it just right.
These pants are $275 and come in sizes 0–12. They're also available in pacific blue. Isabella Pants
More affordable options are from BlankNYC (sizes 24–28, $68) and Halogen (18W–26W, marked down to $39.90 from $89).
Sales of note for 10.10.24
- Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
- Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
- Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
- White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles
Sales of note for 10.10.24
- Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
- Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
- Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
- White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Anonymous
I had a weird situation yesterday that I am kind over focusing on. I was driving on a two way, narrow street, and there was a car parked on my side. A truck was coming the other way at the same time, so I pulled over a bit and came to a stop to let the truck pass (we could not both fit). As he was passing he stopped and was desperately motioning for me to roll my window down , and I did thinking something was wrong. He then said “you need to learn the rules of the road young lady before you hurt someone!” I drove away but stupidly did not have a mask on when I rolled my window down and neither did he. I am just kind of furious about it? 1. I don’t know what he is even referencing if anything I was overly cautious and let him go? 2 I can’t believe he felt the need to both waste our time and expose both of us to covid! My town is an extreme red zone. Thanks for letting me vent
Anon
I would let this go, it doesn’t sound like you did anything wrong. Also your COVID exposure risk in this situation is near zero so don’t waste any more mental energy on this.
Anon
First, I regularly drive on a very narrow street and this is 100% what every one does when encountering oncoming traffic. If it’s a truck, one of us will usually stop as soon as we reach a wide spot and wait until the other vehicle comes. So he was clearly just in a mood and you didn’t do anything wrong!
Second, I think the covid risk from that short an encounter (and from within two different vehicles) is basically none. My workplace doesn’t require us to wear masks when pulling up the security guard to show our id to get through the gate and no one thinks anything of it being an excessive hazard. (We all wear masks once on the property.)
pugsnbourbon
+1. People park on both sides of the street we live on, so folks are always pulling over to let each other pass by. It’s always unsettling to get yelled at but you did nothing wrong.
Anonymous
You should go ahead and wear your mask at security too. Why not?
Ellen
Men do this as a power thing. When they see a pretty woman driving that would never look at them, let alone talk to them, they pretend there is something SO important that can’t wait, like this schlub. Of course when you acknoledge them and ask what the problem is, they say/do something to assert their dominance; much like a dog peeing on a fire hydrent. They then drive away and tell their schlubby freinds that they dominated a pretty woman. The freinds do not know what or how, but salute the first schlub for getting to do stuff like that to us. I say PTOOEY on all men that must do that kind of thing to us just b/c we are pretty and vulnerable women. If you have a boyfreind or husband, they will tell you to forget about it; but next time, just get the schlub’s license plate and report him to the DMV, b/c these are the same men that have no variety in their playbooks for women like us. DOUBEL PTOOEY!
OtterMom
He may have assumed (wrongly) that you were parking behind the car that was parked, not that you were letting him pass. I wouldn’t think anything about it.
Anon
Ok he was rude to say that (and I would have also pulled over) but I would not be worried in the least about the covid risk from that encounter.
Cat
Apparently this is “jacka$$ random encounters” week on Corpor-tt-. He s-cks. You acted like a reasonable driver.
Also, the odds of getting Covid from this encounter are not worth stressing about.
Anonymous
Thanks all. I know the odds are low (rationally). I think it was just the combo of being randomly chastised, confused about what he was complaining about and just the whole interaction. I really needed to hear “he s cks” .
Anonymous
Covid risk is exceptionally low.
Don’t doubt your driving skills because of one psycho dude.
No Face
He is just some moron. You did exactly what you were supposed to do. As you were both outside and only briefly spoke, the covid risk is very low. I say this as someone who lives in state where the covid numbers are terrrrrrrrible.
anon
The person who is driving uphill is the one who should be allowed to pass. Maybe that’s what he meant? But either way, rolling down his window to chastise you for being polite is such a d1ck move.
anon
I’ve actually never known that rule. Probably because I have spent 99% of my life driving in very flat places where we would have to get out of our cars with marbles to figure out which direction is uphill and even then they would probably just fall into a pothole.
anon
Are you from Houston???
anon
I am now, lol
S in Chicago
Midwesterner here. First time I’ve heart that as well. I always thought it is the car that is first that goes. And if you are going to be passing at nearly the same time, then it’s the car that doesn’t have any obstruction in its path that goes while the other pulls aside to let them pass (which is what OP did). Sounds like the guy is just rude.
I’m in a super hot zone right now, but I wouldn’t give that interaction any worry. I hear you though. I’m always a little jarred right now when someone even steps closer to me than I expect. And that can be even under good circumstances, not like the stressful interaction you had. I had a nice gentlemen hold the door for me when I went to vote and I’m still mad that I didn’t distance because in the moment I didn’t want to offend. Just such weird times right now.
Anon
I’m familiar with that rule fwiw, reminds me of driving in Manayunk.
Anonymous
Could he have thought the street was one way? And/or are you positive it was two way?
I 100% biked up a one way street the wrong way on vacation wondering why everyone was giving me a dirty look.
Oops.
Thanks, it has pockets!
Either one is possible. I live on an intersection where the road goes from two ways to just one way, and people headed towards the main road suddenly have to turn one way or the other; it’s absolutely possible to turn and still make it to the main road somewhat easily, but it can be confusing to people who don’t live here. They might not see the “do not enter” sign, they might not notice the parked cars all face the same way, or they might know it’s one-way but they don’t care, or they’d rather not risk getting lost in this maze of a neighborhood when the main road is just up ahead. Needless to say, we hear lots of honking.
Anon
Male privilege week on display. He was wrong. For covid, length of exposure matters. Yours was so short, you’re probably fine. F that guy
Anon
The country is filled with angry men. I don’t know why. But everyone needs to be safe and self-protective. I’m sorry this happened to you.
Anon
Right??? What do white men have to be so mad about??? It’s us women who should be mad all the time…..
Anon
They’ve been fed very specific propaganda that makes them this way.
Monday
I actually am mad much of the time as a woman. I just can’t afford to provoke strangers with my rage, especially not men!
Trixie
White men without college degrees cannot make a decent living anymore. Factory jobs are gone, etc etc. While there are opportunities (health care) if they were flexible and willing to be retrained, most are too proud and stubborn to bother. They remember when women were deferential, made dinner, etc., and now they have to compete and work with women. Men are just so angry now–they have lost a lot of privilege, and they just.cannot.adjust.
all about eevee
My father, my brother, and my husband all work in factories. Factories are not “gone”.
Anon
My husband is a white male without a college degree happily making bank in tech. We’re aware of others without college degree making fine livings in insurance, etc. So there are opportunities out there–they just look different than they used to. (And you’re right, many men won’t demean themselves to take the so called “pink collar” jobs in healthcare.) But women in the workplace is nothing new! I grew up with two working parents! How is this new? It’s f’ing 2020, not freaking 1979… Ugh, venting. But not to worry, white men, the Supreme Court is about to set us back to 1950…
Anon
I’m in management at a manufacturing company in Ohio. We offer a healthy starting wage, a crazy (and I’m mean crazy) good retirement plan, health benefits, etc. We’ve never done layoffs. We offer 3 different types of shifts. We cannot find people to work. Literally our HR manager is booking billboards and pounding the pavement, and we are barely scraping by on labor. So white men without college degrees have options and are choosing anger and false victimhood.
Anon
When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
anonymous
@Anon at 11:30 We’re in Ohio and my husband was laid off and is looking for work. Any way you could post what region – central, north, southern?
Anon
“When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.” – Anon at 11:54
Bingo! This is it.
Anon
Not the Anon above, but I’m aware that manufacturing companies are looking HARD for people in Ohio, my own included.
Anon
That’s why I cringed so hard at Biden’s closing in the last debate re: we just want everyone to have an equal opportunity. That TERRIFIES white men.
Anon @11:30
Anon @ 12:53 – we are located in central Ohio
Anon
The “nothing is ever good enough and I always deserve MORE” phenomenon manifests differently in men than in women. In men, it’s aggressive and terrifying, which is why it’s a problem.
Anonymous
Oh my goodness. You were not exposed to Covid. Pls get a grip. A mean man was rude to you. I agree that’s rough. But not worth dwelling over.
Anon
Go away. You’re as bad as the guy in this story.
Anon
She is not. Why the bullying?
Anon
I’m sorry, who do you think is being bullying here?
Anon
This tone sucks.
anonnnn
I definitely have wildly waved my hands at someone in this scenario who is doing something I don’t want them to do. Doesn’t make it right, but I say that to tell you I literally never think about it after it happens. You should take the same approach. I am a jerk sometimes. This dude was a jerk. Who cares?
Anon
He took special effort to get her to roll down her window and demean her. ( “young lady”) Men do that kind of thing all the time and it’s upsetting. Next man who calls me young lady is going to get me calling him an old a$$hole.
Anonymous
Thank you. I think this is what bothered me – the extra time he spent just to make me feel bad, and because I approached the interaction thinking he maybe was in distress or needed help. It was a tough month for me which I think made it stay with me longer than normal, but I appreciate the space to do a little vent and hearing hey it’s not you, some people are just rude.
Marie
If you need another person to say the problem is with him and not with you, consider it said. Life is already hard enough for everyone right now without idiots thinking they need to pull over and yell at random strangers for no reason. You did nothing wrong, so don’t let him spend any more time living rent-free in your head.
Anonymous
Thank you Marie!
Anonnn
Oh I absolutely throw that $hit right back at men who do this. I have an attitude when it comes to men talking down to me. They are usually too surprised to learn I have a backbone and a mouth to do anything other than stare when I respond to them in kind. I don’t disagree at all that this guy is a jacka$$, I was poorly trying to say that this guy isn’t worth the energy and time she has already spent on this bc I can assure you he has already forgotten about it.
Monday
But in situations like this, you’re not doing it for him. (He could care less and almost certainly won’t learn anything.) You’re doing it for yourself. This is my philosophy on any harassment from a man.
anonnnn
I don’t understand your point in response to my post, Monday. Of course I am doing it for me. I DGAF about that guy – I will never see him again and he is not even remotely important in my life. That’s my point. Who cares if a dude was a jerk to you? It happens a lot. It sucks. It’s wrong, but stewing over it and getting upset about it for longer than a minute or two is a waste of time and energy that such jerk doesn’t deserve.
Monday
She cares, hence her posting here. She is not choosing to stew or get upset because he somehow earned her time and effort. She’s processing and seeking input from people she suspects will be sympathetic (other women). I do this when I’m flustered by a jerk too.
Anonymous
Wouldn’t you have been more than 6 ft away in your respective vehicles anyway? It’s not like your vehicles were touching? There had to be at least a foot or more between them right? Plus when you sit in a car you don’t sit with your face on the window — there’s probably another foot between your face and the window and same for the trucker in his vehicle. That’s 3 ft right there. Wouldn’t there also be a height differential of a few feet between a big truck and a car? Unless I’m missing something it’s not like you were face to face unmasked within inches of each other like if he had gotten in your face at a grocery store or something.
But for future reference and to make yourself feel better, get used to NOT rolling down windows all the way. I live in a state where you can’t pump your own gas (NJ) — all of us here have gotten good at cracking our windows like a half inch to scream out what we want — because the employees there don’t tend to wear masks and often just don’t seem that aware and will get right up in your face even if they could’ve stood and heard your order from a foot away.
Anonymous
we live on one of these streets bc everyone parks on the street and i always pull over first to let the other person pass if there’s an easy space because i dont mind waiting a minute. what you SHOULD get is a big smile and a wave from the other driver as they’re passing!! you did nothing wrong, im annoyed for you. sorry this dude sucks.
Ellen
Elizabeth, Rosa loves flair-leg pants! She is taller and thinner then I am and looks great in these and the old bell bottom jeans I gave her when I came home from freshman year @ college. Dad says our legs will only look like an hourglass with these if we have smaller tuchuses (meaning her, but not me). The other consideration we must face is leg length. You do not want to buy to short, or you will look like you are wearing flaired Capri pants. On the other hand, if they are to long, they will get wet in the rain and will pick up poopie that wasn’t scraped up and other stuff in puddles on street corners. FOOEY!
College admissions counselor recs?
Can anyone recommend a college admissions counselor or service? We’re in NOVA / DC. Looking for help in finding colleges that are a good fit and navigating the application process rather than exam coaching. Thanks!
LaurenB
Hanna Stotland. She’s based in Chicago but it can all be done remotely.
Anonymous
Judy Levenfeld, based in New York but similarly can work remotely.
SSJD
Dina Epstein
Anonymous
At what point do you sign up with a college counselor? My daughter is a freshman and has already started talking about colleges she wants to visit. Her high school guidance counselor will not be able to assist with the types of colleges that interest her. I don’t want to push too much too soon, but on the other hand I don’t want to wait until all the good counselors are booked.
Now is Fine
I used to work in this field pre-law school. We start seeing folks around 7th/8th grade, particularly if they are making specialized school decisions. Some counselor/companies sell “packages” and some are hourly, but they will work with you in an age/grade appropriate way. It’s not too early if she’s already interested!
emeralds
I haven’t used the service, but Margaret Bolton Baudinet with College Solutions is a lovely, proactive, down-to-earth woman who I would trust to give a kid thoughtful–but realistic–guidance. She’s VA-based.
Anonymous
I am in the area and looked at her company’s page. There are so many typos and grammatical errors that I ruled it out immediately. If they can’t even get their web page right, how can they possibly advise my kid on essays?
LaurenB
The lady with quintuplets? She seems like she only would be useful if your goal is UVA.
kk
Former admisisons counselor here- just make sure that whoever you choose is a member of NACAC (National Association of College Admissions Counseling) – if you search NACAC IEC you’ll be able to find an Independent Educational Consultant who is likely to follow the group’s best practices.
In your area, I’ve had great experiences with Colleen Sheehan Ganjian.
OP
Thank you!
Since posting this this morning, I’ve had a recommendation from a friend for a counselor who worked with her daughter. Jay Bass at forwordconsulting
Good luck to anyone else in this situation!
Itchy from leggings
I am wearing leggings after a season in shorts. I don’t know if it is the really synthetic fabric, but my legs are just itching. It is like they don’t like fabric touching them at all (much less everywhere). It’s not all leggings (I wore some over the weekend, also synthetic, but likely a different fabric). Does this happen to anyone else? I put on aveeno lotion after I shower each morning, so why is this happening???
MagicUnicorn
Are you sensitive to your laundry detergent or fabric softener? Or could stubble be causing itchiness?
Ellen
Look what the leggings are made of. If they are 100% rayon, you will itch, even if your legs are not dry. Rayon does not breathe like cotton or even other polyester’s, so you should know this. Also, a full day’s wearing of rayon will cause you to sweat alot and you can get chafeing, and you will have to shower carefully before you go to sleep or it will be very unpleasant in the morning.
anne-on
Only when my skin is very dry, or if the detergent is bothering me. I also need to wash everything I wear before I wear it or I get hives from whatever it is companies use to treat their clothes. Yay for sensitive skin….
Cat
Could you previously wear the same leggings with no issue, or are you trying new brands? For whatever reason, JCrew leggings and tights make my legs itchy, but Zella leggings don’t.
Ribena
Could it be the aveeno? Either itself, or in combination with the leggings. Stress (such as going through a pandemic) makes my allergies and skin sensitivities worse.
Anonymous
OP here — ditched the leggings (joy of WFH). Content was 90% nylon, 10% spandex.
Am now wearing looser fitting trail pants that are 100% nylon with no issues. [So it probably isn’t the fabric but the . . . touching? I swear I have the leggings in a 7/8 version and they are find, but will wait to road-test my theories on another day.]
I’m allergy shots for environmental/animal allergies and on an antihistamine and don’t tend to have issues with clothing generally. Nothing like WFH and then the athleisure starts fighting you — that is so 2020!
Anon
Unscented detergent. No fabric softener sheets. I don’t know why these things bug me sometimes and don’t bug me other times, but I can always make it go away by going fragrance free and using dryer balls instead of fabric softener sheets.
Curious
My legs get really itchy in the winter unless I use a bath oil (e.g., Neutrogena) on them. Aveeno doesn’t cut it. Maybe consider a richer product?
AnonATL
I’m not judging what you do with your body hair, but I get this issue if I wait a certain amount of time between shaving. There’s this annoying spot where it’s itchy before it fully grows out or I shave again.
Vicky Austin
Same, and the first few days of winter are the worst for this because my skin is also like “ah yes, time to DRY RIGHT OUT.”
anon
Same here.
But also, I really don’t like wearing leggings as much as most people seem to. They feel very constricting and vaguely uncomfortable to me, and trust, I’ve tried many brands. I like them fine for working out, but for all-day wear? No thank you.
Anon
Yes this so much!
Anon
This. If I want to wear tight-to-skin leggings, I need to wax instead of shave. The blunt hair ends stick in the fabric and yank on my skin.
Anon
Same here. Grown out? Fine. Just shaved? Fine. Four days after shaving? Not fine.
Camp peeing
I have been camping a couple of times but am not a regular camper. A couple of times, at the end of a day of hiking, etc., we have a camp fire and maybe a beer or two. And then it feels like I spend the whole night peeing. It is a pain in good weather (find headlamp, put on boots, try not to wake people, remember where the potties are, trek, go, return, etc.). I am 1) so aware and 2) so annoyed at myself. Is this just how aging is, always wanting a closer bathroom? Wondering if Depends is the way to go (hey, it works for astronauts)? And don’t get me started if it is raining — I have never regretted beer so much in my life (but it would be no different when it has been water-caused (some state parks won’t let you bring in alcohol)). Ugh.
Anonymous
You can do pelvic floor physio for frequent urination. I’d say just avoid beer but if it’s an issue with water as well, it might be worth getting an assessment.
Anon
So, there’s this thing you can get called a female urination device (FUD) that are made by brands like Go Girl, Shewee, Freshette, etc. If you’re at a popualted campsite then don’t use it but at a more remote location it lets you pee like a man. I’m also a big proponent of not camping when it’s raining.
Anonymous
I stop drinking everything earlier than normal to avoid midnight trips to the bathroom while camping. But I typically get up once per overnight at home, so it’s nothing new.
Saguaro
+1
Cat
Is this only when camping or when you’re home, too?
In any event, bring it up with your dr- they can do a bladder ultrasound before and after urinating to make sure your bladder is actually empty when you think it’s empty, and refer you to PT if needed.
Anonymous
Is it possible it’s a slight unconscious anxiety? Since you know it’s such a hassle, that may be causing a little bit of anxiety, and anxiety always makes me have to go to the bathroom more.
Anonymous
I know some older women who insist it is part of aging (and maybe having had kids). I would guess they are all 50ish/50+, so menopause-aged and beyond. They petitioned and got their tennis club to build a bathroom out by the tennis courts b/c it was disruptive to their play to have to trek back to a club house (during a tennis game, often doubles). They were the sort of empty-nesters who play serious tennis for hours a couple of times weekly (my dream!). So maybe it is an age + possibly repurcussion of childbirth + hormone shifting thing? But I’d like some doctors somewhere to discuss this with me and not rely on chatting with people randomly. When I was younger, women’s magazines often had a female health column (often s*x stuff but not always) and that is how I really learned stuff like what a pap smear is for and why it matters, etc. and about melanomas, and now . . . where am I supposed to learn more now that I’m in my 40s?!
Anon
I’m 55 and have had three kids and can confirm. There are no more uninterrupted nights of sleep for me, and two beers after dinner would do me in
To OP, menopause or not, I always have to pee more urgently when it’s cold outside my bed. Could that be part of it?
Anon
Do you have your own tent? If it is just a number 1, you could bring a wide mouthed bottle to pee in. Either the ones they medically sell for bedsides or just an empty vitamin water bottle or something. Then just dump it out in the AM.
Trixie
I have a pee device, and I love it. I no longer go into restrooms on longer drives on highways, as Covid, but we pull to the back of a rest area and I pee in the woods/bushes, standing up, or hidden by the car doors, both opened. You can take a short walk from the fire, and pee in the woods, as the men would. No need to go find the potties.
Ellen
Yes, Grandma Trudy uses her device when whenever we go in the car, and she just empties it as she walks back to the car. Since the device is empty by the time she gets back in the car, she can use again if she has to in the car if we don’t have time to stop.
Full of ideas
You’re probably dehydrated. It seems counter intuitive, but when you are dehydrated your urine is more concentrated and irritates your bladder, making you have to pee. The beer is probably adding to this effect, so I suggest drinking more water (in-between each beer have a glass of water), and that might help. I learned this from pelvic floor PT. I used to stop drinking around 6 pm when I started having to pee a lot at night, and it was the absolute wrong thing to do!
KS IT Chick
I am trying to figure out what to do with my clothes, since my life has changed drastically.
I have a collection of suits, sheath dresses and blazers purchased for my former job. I spent 25 years in a career path that required it. In December, 2019, I changed jobs and employers, to a position that has a dress code of “smart casual”, jeans allowed and encouraged. In September, my manager announced that we are 100% WFH. I now live in jeans and t-shirts.
I look at the wall of formal work clothes and wonder if I will ever wear any of it again.
Should I donate or sell all of the clothes? Then, if I ever need business formal again, I can buy updated, current clothes.
Anonymous
I would keep a few of your favorite pieces, the more timeless the better. You may need them for a confrence, speaking occasion, personal event (funeral, networking, etc). Keep any tips that could work for date night or more smart casual with jeans at work.
You may also get laid off and get rehired in a more formal industry- though if you are in IT in KS as your user name implies, I think the likelihood is slimmer every day!
anne-on
Btw this happened to me – same industry (went to a direct competitor) but the group I was in went from business casual (and I was the odd one out by not having tattoos and wearing a t-shirt regularly) to just shy of business formal (dark jeans, only on Fridays, but worn with a blazer, jackets/dresses/suits regularly). I had to make an emergency trip to Brooks Brothers before my first week of work because all of my formal clothes were either out of date or barely fit. I really should have kept a few ’emergency’ blazers/shells/skirts.
Anonymous
Sell the stuff that’s in new or like new condition. But wait until next year if you have the space as no one is buying now. Assuming here that the clothes are higher value brands and not like JCrew/Banana etc.
Keep anything that can be repurposed to casual wear. I have a lot of cute shells in my work wardrobe that work with jeans for brunch with girlfriends. Also keep any favorite pieces you really love in case you have a business formal job in the future. I can think of two dresses immediately that I really love and are worth keeping space in my closet for.
Donate anything in good condition If you have the space, consider waiting until after the pandemic as thift stores are not likely selling much work clothes now. Check if there is a Dress for Success in your area. Consider offering anything usable by service industry people (e.g. black pants) for free on FB marketplace or freecycle groups in your town.
Trash anything that’s worn/holes etc.
Anon
Yes, sell/donate!! Keep a favorite or two (morbid, but make sure to keep a funeral-friendly peice or two as well).
Free your closet and buy updated if you ever need it!
anne-on
What is the price point and style of these clothes – like, do you have a collection of St John/Boss/Theory/etc.? Or is it a mix of price points/current and classic items? It sounds like this is a good opportunity to sort through and pick a smaller capsule wardrobe of pieces you like best (maybe 2-3 suits, 4-5 blazers, and 4-5 sheath dresses?) and donate the rest. I’d also think about other places you may want to wear/have these clothes – I’ll wear my more casual blazers as jackets (corduroy/JCrew going out blazers) and put them on for ‘important’ video Zoom calls. I also had personal events where I wore some of my more casual (and washable) work dresses – children’s school events, religious services, fundraising events, etc. I know all of those are virtual now but I’d be annoyed if I had to rebuy a whole bunch of clothes for next summer/fall when we (hopefully) do more things in person.
Anonie
It’s personal preference, really, as well as a matter of how quickly you need the money from clothing sales and/or how compelled you feel to donate these items to someone in need.
I personally would wait another year just because so much is in flux as we wait for a vaccine and businesses reassess priorities. Even if home is your daily base moving forward (my company is doing something similar for my team and adjacent roles) you may end up with semi-regular in-person meetings at some in 2021 or early 2022. I also think a nice, flattering wardrobe can take a long time to build and I wouldn’t want to lightly throw that away.
For me, the exception would be trendy items, items that worked when I was 25 that don’t work as well now that I am 30 and dress more conservatively, items that were looking a little worn away, etc…I would go ahead and donate those but keep at least 75% of my wardrobe.
Cat
+1, I just did this. For anything in my closet that I hadn’t worn in the last year, I tried it on. And that usually reminded me quickly of why I hadn’t worn it! Made it easier to part with probably 20% of my closet. I kept only items that I wasn’t wearing (1) because it doesn’t fit but I am within 10 pounds of fitting into properly, and (2) I am still excited to wear again, OR sentimental (this is only a handful of things).
TheElms
I’d probably keep my favorite suit (I’m assuming its a dark color), a few favorite sheath dresses (that cover different seasons) and a blazer or two that goes well with jeans and sell or donate the rest depending on your personal preference. I think its helpful to have a few business formal/business casual pieces in your wardrobe for unexpected things. But definitely agree that if you go back to needing a business casual or business formal wardrobe a few years down the road it would make sense to re-buy.
anne-on
To the poster who mentioned keeping things that are hard to find – I’d keep any professional dresses in good shape that are long sleeved OR washable (or both!!). They are like freaking unicorns to find and one of the rare things I will buy without waiting for a sale.
Katie
Agree with all the above. I’ve downsized my wardrobe and sold some things on Poshmark, but people aren’t buying the nicer workwear these days as we’re all in the same boat. If you have the space, I’d hold out until spring before paring down. Echoing anne-on, I kept nicer dresses with sleeves as they’re always hard to find, but sold the lower quality items that I didn’t mind parting with and felt were easily replaced. Keep your favorites and some classics.
Anon
This is me, too. Work remote even in normal times for a SF company but travel east for work sometimes, will probably travel a less in the future than I would have been previously. I donated some to cut clutter, though I’m keeping a lot because I’m not sure what size I’ll be next year/whenever we’re post-COVID. Will I have gained the COVID 19, or will the new Peloton get me back down to say, a 12? I don’t have a full wardrobe of both possibilities but kept nice pieces to cover both ends of the spectrum. I also have the space and have moved most of what I’m holding on to for now to a hanging rack downstairs in storage. I’ll try to Poshmark or make a Dress for Success donation when people are going back to the office/traveling in greater numbers.
Anon
If you’re not ready to pull the trigger on selling, I sent my professional clothes to a peer-to-peer rental site I found called WearWardrobe. There’s another one called Village Luxe that I looked at, but WW was easier. I’ve only had two rentals so far, but the clothes aren’t in my closet any more and in theory someone who has an occasion to wear them now has access to them.
Anonymous
When in a similar position I asked myself if I would even want a job in the future that required me to dress up. For me the answer was no. I saved one suit for interviews and a couple dresses and donated everything else.
Anonymous
I’m in the camp of not making any big changes right now even though your instinct that you won’t wear them again is probably right. I think there’s too much need to be feeling productive right now, like we’re “doing something “ instead of sitting in our homes all day, and it might be worth just taking a deep breath instead. And as others have said, there isn’t much demand for this kind of stuff right now.
Kitten
Similar situation, I tightly packed all of mine (save one suit) into a big plastic bin and slid it under my bed. Now all of my athleisure and “nice” tshirts get the prime real estate.
Anonymous
I would keep anything that you love or would be difficult to replace; for me that means sheath dresses (difficult to fit, invested $$$ in alterations), dress suits, and collarless blazers. Keep two interview outfits (first and second round) and one outfit appropriate for funerals. Get rid of anything that’s showing wear, is on its way out style-wise, will never fit again, or is a filler item you don’t love.
Anon
I’d love suggestions on where to sell clothes other than eBay or Poshmark (I don’t have time to individually photograph, list, package and ship everything) since ThredUp is barely processing bags any more – I have two that have been sitting since June waiting for processing – and when they do process bags, they offer literal pennies for what sells (I got a payout of 76 cents on one item recently). Consignment stores in my area are flat-out not taking formal business wear at all and actually have not been for some time.
Anon
I don’t think you have any other options.
Anonymous
There are other apps (Mercari comes to mind) but with all of them you have to photograph, list, and ship.
Cal
Clothes Mentor might be an option for selling to if you have one in your area
Anon
Really glad you posted this as I have been meaning to post the same question. Pre-Covid I needed a wide variety of professional clothes – from casual to formal – for my job, and I live in a four-season climate, so ended up with a lot of different pieces I could wear different ways and in different seasons. I am now going to be 100% remote from now on and I have no idea what to do with all my non-casual clothes. I have lived in leggings, jeans and t-shirts for the last 7.5 months and I don’t see that changing any time soon. Literally 80% of my closet is going to be useless to me in my new situation. In addition to being kind of overwhelmed at the idea of getting rid of almost everything, I also have some beautiful things I really love but know I should get rid of because if and when I ever had cause to wear them again, by that point they will likely be woefully out of fashion. And that makes me sad.
anon
Please consider donating the clothes you don’t keep to Dress for Success or a similar organization that helps women dress appropriately for their first office jobs.
Anonymous
I went from business to business casual to casual. I would go through and get rid of anything that is worn or never really fit right. I would keep and reimagine the rest. I wear my pretty silk shells in summer with casual linen sweaters for work and on weekends with shorts. My sheath dresses work with fun shoes and jewelry for things like the theater. I toss my jackets over fun tops with jeans and heels. I pair my tailored pants with chunky sweaters and boots.
Anonymous
Oh and I forgot holiday, my black skirts are good bases for work holiday and the silk blouses have been paired with velvet jeans and a black lace skirt. The pumps that seem dull are fun with patterned tights.
Anon
I had a similar situation. I started a new job last November that is 100% remote, and I previously had a position requiring frequent court appearances. I no longer need all my suits and blazers. It was surprisingly hard to part with them! I realized I had quite an emotional attachment to many pieces because of the events associated with them. This is the outfit I wore when X, Y, or Z happened. So I took photos of many of them (yes), and I offered some close friends first dibs. I then donated the rest to Dress for Success so that a woman job searching in this tough climate can make use of them. I wanted them to go to good use. I considered selling them, but frankly they were mostly pieces from Macys/Nordstroms/Lord and Taylor, I don’t know the resale value, and I don’t have the time to manage online sales.
I kept 2 suits in case of funerals (and sadly had to wear 1 already), interviews (who knows in this economy), etc.
Anon
Considering what you have, would it be possible to put together a capsule wardrobe of business formal sufficient to get through a work week, just in case things change, and get rid of the rest?
Anon
I loooooooove pants like these, but I’m rarely in the office these days and when I am, anything so dressed up feels wrong — it’s slim pants, simple sweater, and flats. Also, having to hem them for a specific pair of pants is so incredibly annoying, and hard to manage with commuting — I don’t want to commute in heels. But I love the look and feel and am so glad they are coming back!
Cat
+1, they are flattering and elegant! I had picked up a few pairs last winter (along with flared jeans) and the leg-lengthening effect even with low heels was wonderful. Nice to alternate from skinny ankle styles although I have to safety-pin the hems for my walking commute.
Anonymous
Given that slim pants and ankle length pants both look absolutely terrible on my body type (I basically haven’t worn anything but dresses/skirts for the last few years for this reason), I’m so here for the wider pant legs and full length pants!
anon
Same girl, same. Slim pants are a disaster on my muscular legs and curvy hips. If I even manage to pull them over my knees and calves to begin with …
Anonymous
+1, I hated the low rise and the skinny eras and continued to wear the rare straight leg, wide leg or bootcut I could find throughout this era.
Anon
Finally, these are back in fashion. I’m an hourglass with muscular thighs (runner with a small waist and ample hips), so I’ve been rocking skirts for the last ten years.
Now my goal is to find pants like this in wool.
Anonymous
I think the fluctuating pants styles are a conspiracy to force us to replace all our shoes in addition to the pants.
anon
RIGHT?! It’s maddening.
Anon
I had a whole outfit look around pants like this in the early 2000s. It was very Katherine Hepburn -esque. I would probably wear the exact same outfit if I could find pants like this now, but honestly, tall lengths were a lot easier to find when I was on the larger end of the normal size range vs where I am now, the lower end of the plus size range. And nothing looks worse than a wide legged pant that is too short.
Gap Year for rising seniors (this year)?
I have heard from my friends that about 50% of their kids who’d be college freshmen are taking a gap year (but it has been hard to find meaningful experiences for that year, so it’s a combination of online community college classes + part time work like grocery stores, amazon delivery, amazon package sorting, refurbishing trails in parks, helping scout troops, delivering pizza, working at call centers, all PT, often volunteer jobs). They were thinking they’d be back on campus somewhere fall 2021. [The other 50% are living in apartments in their college’s town and are taking a combo of online and live classes; they refuse dorms b/c they don’t want to be risk being kicked out and sent home.]
This year, I have a nephew who is a HS senior. In my family, college is often just 2-years community college + 2-years commuting to state U. This kid was hoping to break out a bit and with a combo of good ACT scores and a state basketball ranking to go somewhere else (would probably get some sort of merit scholarship and would maybe get some need-based aid; could get a sport scholarship, but not relying solely on that except to gain interest in him where he can get it). He doesn’t want to mess up any NCAA stuff but is pretty sad that he may also need to plan a contingency year (I don’t see his family wanting to pay any real tuition money unless a school will be in-person in the fall and I can’t say that I blame them — it’s a significant expense). Any helpful annecdata or ideas percolating around out there?
Anonymous
I’m not sure I follow the question. He should do his best this year to get into the best college he can with the best aid package. He can’t plan for whether a year from now colleges will have resumed a more normal in person learning program- some are doing mostly in person now after all. If the time does come that it’s looking to be mostly virtual then it probably does make sense to take a gap year if he can. And then during that year he’ll find a job.
Anonymous
If you get say a 50% merit scholarship from State U, can you defer attending and keep the scholarship (and what happens if you take online transfer credits while deferring)? And decide that before your parents have to put $ down for deposits / and/or sign an apartment lease + find roommates?
I think for a lot of first-gen parents, they don’t think like this (and our community college has flexible registration, so no need to think in advance for how college goes in a lot of families). Stuff in advance is to keep Pell Grants and need-based stuff going I think or to line up things that need to transfer in things like nursing programs.
Anonymous
It depends on the school. He will need to get in and then have those conversations.
Anon
Yeah, I wouldn’t change plans. My college (small liberal arts in northwestern massachusetts – very highly ranked) is mostly in person with kids on campus – so maybe he can take data points like that to help him choose?
Anon
Amherst or Williams? :)
anon
From what I know about sports recruiting, doesn’t he have some idea of the schools that are interested in him by now? As as senior isn’t that a thing you know by the fall? And so can’t he figure out which of those schools are doing live classes? I can’t imagine any that are doing live classes now won’t be a year from now.
Anon
I have a LOT of opinions on this. Academic merit aid is substantially easier to get as a college freshman than as a transfer. It’s not impossible, but much harder, to get merit-based aid as a transfer.
You CANNOT look at the cost of any one year in isolation. Yes, community college might be cheaper and a better value than a year of virtual school at a 4-year university, but that might drive up the total cost. (Example: school gives merit scholarship such that the total COA for one year is $10k, provided he starts as a freshman. 10k x 4 = $40k. Other option is community college at $5k a year and then in-state at $25k a year. $5k x 2 + $25k x 2 = $60k. “Saving” $5,000 in freshman year actually would cost quite a bit of money.)
Moreover, this decision is not made hypothetically. He should apply to colleges, ask for interviews if offered (my alma mater is doing them virtually), apply for scholarships, and, when he has actual offers in hand on 01 April and is deciding between universities, make the decision then.
Anonymous
How important are interviews?
And tours?
During a pandemic?
We were planning on spring break 2020 that would have let us tour a few schools and skipped due to lockdown. Now that it looks like spring break 2021 has a huge asterisk on it already, do things matter less? Are the virtual options easy to find on websites (or done through local alumni / virtual alumni)?
I feel like there is no road map and our school is overwhelmed and not really jumping out in front of things (yet another reason I regret keeping my kids in public school — they were outgunned on services prior to the pandemic and now it is showing when a lot of kids’ lives are time-sensitive if they are juniors).
Anon
This really depends on the school.
I’m the chair for my state for alumni interviews for my alma mater (one of the “little Ivies”). We do not require interviews and students who do not interview are not harmed by that choice in the admissions process; however, many other schools operate differently. ALL of our interviews are virtual this year.
One of the reasons I say to take the interview, if offered, is precisely because touring is so difficult. It gives the student a chance to interact with someone from the university who can speak to the “feel” of the campus – are there laid-back, happy students, or is it more of a pressure cooker (some people thrive in different ones)? How political is it? Are students invested in extracurriculars? Do people go home on the weekends or to a nearby city such that the campus is a ghost town, or is it fun to be there on Saturdays? Do students studying, say, aeronautical engineering have time to play sports? Is the Greek culture healthy or unhealthy?
Anon
THIS. The vast majority of aid is for FTIC (First Time in College) students. He cannot do anything to mess up that status.
A high school kid who is dual-enrolled with his community college is still FTIC. A random person who decides to take a few gen eds, then go onto university is not.
I thought I was being responsible by taking CC classes when I was in the military (before the current GI Bill that covers everything – the old one wasn’t that good). All it did was make me a transfer student and shitcanned any possibility of merit aid (I had really good academics, extracurriculars, etc in HS, so otherwise would have been competitive), all for a few gen-eds that I knocked out while enlisted.
This radically changed the course of my college (and perhaps my life), since it meant I had to work several jobs to pay for school (parents have been out of the picture since graduating HS) and paid full freight to the university since the GI Bill didn’t cover that much. I graduated, but it wasn’t much of an experience and I wasn’t able to take advantage of any extracurriculars or networking type things.
Anonymous
Man, that s*cks. And is the kind of screwing over of non-rich non-traditional students that is shameful to read about. I am stabby mad on your behalf!
Anon
Yep. My alma mater will never get one cent from me for that. The post-9/11 GI bill addressed some of this, and many states also have since granted in-state tuition to veterans (I was blessed with OOS tuition, too. That was fun).
But yeah, the ramifications of FTIC vs transfer student were something that I wish someone had told me about. I would have been WAY better off not submitting my transcripts and retaking those classes. Naive me thought that the university had a way to find out if I had taken a course at Podunk CC and didn’t disclose.
Anon
Blame US News. They have long reported the high school class rank and test scores of ONLY entering freshman; ergo, schools put their merit aid towards increasing their rankings.
Someday, someone will be able to explain exactly the role that g-dforsaken magazine has played in the destruction of American higher ed, and there will be tar and feathers.
Financial Aid
You weren’t naive, they could have! Enrollment gets reported to the Student Clearinghouse, and many colleges do check that and/or the National Student Loan Database for other enrollments – not necessarily up front but often as part of finalizing your aid, so by the time they catch that you aren’t really a first year student it might be too late for you to change your plans. To be clear, I don’t think the time frame comes from a “gotcha” place, more that it’s a timing process related to other functions that has some unintended consequences.
I am glad to see people bringing up this issue, because I think there’s a lot of advice out there about saving money on college that doesn’t apply if you are high achieving, poor or especially if you are both. Colleges set up financial aid packages to serve their enrollment needs first and foremost. They know that transfer students are a more captive audience, so they don’t need to offer as much aid. I do wonder what is going to happen with colleges once the pandemic is under control – there will potentially be multiple high school classes of students looking to start at once and schools are very much not set up for the sort of major, but also temporary, population explosion that will come. I see that getting messy, so I understand why the OP is worried about her student who hopes to start school in fall ‘21, if we actually are back to normal by then. I also don’t think that many schools, especially outside of the elites, have the capacity to think forward to that problem right now so I imagine a lot of schools will be caught unprepared when their current pandemic under-enrollment turns into post pandemic overenrollment, especially if things get back to normal relatively quickly. Higher ed is not built to turn on a dime!
Flats Only
For your first paragraph, I would contend that all those low level menial jobs ARE “meaningful experiences” for their gap year. At the very least they’ll be motivated to work hard in college so they don’t have to go back to delivering packages, and hopefully they will give them a sense of empathy for that type of work. A few more people in the world who don’t regard menial workers as sub-human can only be a good thing, right?
Anon
menial? Really?
Flats Only
Yes, menial. Not meant as an insult to those jobs/workers, but as an accurate description of the work.
me·ni·al
/ˈmēnēəl/
adjective
(of work) not requiring much skill and lacking prestige.
Anonymous
I mean, I’d think so! But I can remember feeling very “less-than” when doing scholarship interviews where my work experience was working at a Jamesway as a cashier vs others who were teaching kids in poor countries to read and digging wells with them. I was not the bright shiny penny, and that was pretty clearly telegraphed. And I think that arms race has only gotten worse — local moms on facebook and insta are trumpeting all of the charities their kids started over the pandemic.
cbackson
FWIW, as someone who has done both scholarship interviews for my alma mater and hiring for my biglaw firm, I highly value real, actual work experience in non-s*xy jobs and garden variety volunteering in the local community. But I get what you’re describing. I once had an interviewee tell me that she had worked at an Arby’s for 15-20 hours a week all the way through college. I asked her why it wasn’t on her resume or in her cover letter and she said that her career services office told her not to include it because it wasn’t “career relevant.” Let me tell you, if you can stick with an unfulfilling fast food job for years, I am far more confident in your ability to grind through boring and unstimulating due diligence at 3 AM than if you spent your summers on expensive volunteer trips that were half vacation.
Quail
+1. When I’m interviewing for junior attorney positions, I always look for retail or restaurant (or whatever) work experience. I want you to have had a real boss, had to show up on time, dealt with customers, etc. Having worked with lots of interns/externs over the years who have never had real jobs – it shows, and not in a good way. I will make my kids work for this reason, even though it will almost assuredly not be in vogue in our social circles.
Anon
yup, i work in career services at a university and students will often tell me that they have ‘no’ experience…but they waited tables over the summer or worked in an ice cream shop — um, that is experience which demonstrates grit, customer service, communication skills, etc.
Anon
This This This!! I conduct interviews for my law firm too and I always ask people if they worked any job in high school / undergrad / summers. What they tell me is always enlightening to what type of employee they will be.
Anon
Absolutely– working as a cashier at a CVS was invaluable for learning to deal with difficult people at a law practice. I was also told by both employers at my college internships that the fact that I had had a job before was part of why I was hired to work for them during the summer. (I had less of a pedigree, but they felt like they wouldn’t have to supervise me as much and were right.)
Anon
This is refreshing. My BigLaw interviewers sometimes outright laughed – I kid you not – at my prior work experience.
cbackson
This. I know that in Normal Times people thought you needed to pay $$$$ to go save the whales in Mongolia* or intern for Miranda Priestly** to sell your gap year to colleges, given the insane state of college admissions. These are not Normal Times. It’s okay for kids to step off the achievement treadmill and get whatever job is available or do non-s*xy volunteer work in the local community.
*I know there are no whales in Mongolia.
**I know The Devil Wears Prada is fiction
Anon
My favorite experience during high school was volunteering at our local crisis nursery. I was also a babysitter/nanny for a couple of families, but my work at the crisis nursery taught me so much about the world.
LaurenB
Yes, menial. It’s a descriptor, not an insult.
Anon
I’m an alumna interviewer for Harvard applicants. I would potentially look favorably on an applicant who worked a “menial” minimum wage job, especially if it was to support their family. I certainly wouldn’t look down on it. I have indeed recommended many students who worked part time minimum wage jobs throughout HS. I did so myself.
LawDawg
I have two kids in college right now (freshman and senior). Based on my experiences, he should go ahead and apply/plan to attend. If he can get in and afford a good school, then he might have hybrid or in-person classes. Or the worst case scenario is that he works from home (like most of us are doing) for part of his college experience. It may be harder to justify paying for that, but it keeps him on track and his foot in the door. If it doesn’t work, he and his family can re-assess. But I think it will be much easier for him to go in that direction than to start out his college career by settling.
Anon
My son is a HS senior and also not excited about college but it’s not optional for us. Gap years rend to be a very privileged thing and we’re not able to fund a year of travel and adventure for him, even if we weren’t in COVID times. The reality is that we need him to finish in four years and get off our payroll. I don’t mean to sound heartless, but we have always let our kids know that this is how it’s going to be.
anon
Anon, why isn’t college for your son optional?
Anon
Not the Anon at 12:08. My guess is that there are plenty of high school kids who really do not have a firm grip on reality and the realities of budgets. Most parents cannot fund a gap year, and even those who can often do not want to (Kid 1 wants a gap year, then Kid 2 wants a summer abroad, then Kid 1 wants a summer abroad too, and it just doesn’t end). If your kid does not have a plan for the gap year and just wants to screw around, there’s not much reason to indulge that. If you are nearing retirement and want these bills paid sooner rather than later, that’s also a consideration.
anon
Right, but there are options other than college and gap year. It sounds like the original Anon is forcing college on her son not because it’s the best option for him, but she doesn’t want him to consider trades, the military, or other careers that don’t require college. That makes me sad for her son.
Anon
My son is an A+ student who is only happy when he’s challenged. He has a friend who went independent study for his senior year and is doing a trade, and my son knows that’s not for him. He needs to go to college. He’s just bummed about doing it in the time of COVID.
Anon
PS you should not assume parents don’t know their own children better than you do from reading a short paragraph.
Anonymous
Aren’t students who want to do a gap year typically advised to apply, be accepted, and defer? So no matter what, nephew should be going through the application process.
I am also mystified as to how he’d get an athletic scholarship if he isn’t already committed at this point, and as to why anyone is assuming community college is cheaper without seeing the financial aid offers first.
Anonymous
A lot of first-generation parents do not know this b/c who is there to tell them this? School counselors at many schools deal with homeless students, ESL students / parents, pregnant students, arrested students, student crime and aren’t able to devote a lot of bandwidth to kids who are doing fine. A lot of kids aren’t. Family often reaches out to family first, and if you’re the family member who went to a 4-year school and has a professional job, you are maybe the only person in your family like that if you are first-generation.
anon
I am mystified why you are mystified.
This child is almost certainly not in the kind of school that people move so their kids can attend. He’s in the kind of school I attended where such a high percentage of the school was under the federal poverty limits that the entire school was given free breakfast and lunch daily. The kind of school where 10-20% of the students drop out as soon as they turn 18 and their parents will no longer get into trouble for truancy so they can go work to support their family. At this type of school, the counselors have much much bigger problems to deal with than financial aid packages.
Anonymous
If someone calls you but doesn’t leave a message, do you call them back? My friends and I are split. In my view, missed calls do not require a callback. Maybe you butt dialed me, idk. If you don’t leave a message or send a follow up text/email, then it must not have been important. Doubly so if I don’t recognize your number; I’m def not calling back a number that was likely spam.
TheElms
oh heck no, I don’t call back people who don’t leave messages.
Ribena
If I don’t recognise the number, I do nothing.
If I do, I send an SMS apologising for missing the call and asking if it’s urgent.
Vicky Austin
Nah. I might text and say “sorry I missed you, everything ok?” if it was, like, my mom.
Anonymous
Nope
CountC
+1
Cat
Depends on who you are.
-Husband, parent, or best friend – call back
-Anyone else in my contacts – would expect a quick text for the reason for the call, and would text them to see what’s up before returning the call
-Any unknown number – ignore entirely
A text is vastly better than leaving a voicemail. If I don’t pick up because I can’t talk at the moment, I may very well be able to respond by text.
Anon
This. Not leaving a voicemail is only bad for my work number, and only if you don’t also email (or text). Anyone personal contact who calls my cell and misses me will either get a return call or a text from me. I thought we settled long ago that voicemails are typically less useful than text messages. A missed call from someone in my contacts (in my eyes) is a request for a call back.
Anonymous
I do if its a family member. Otherwise, hell no.
Anon100
Family or best friend, I would call back or text to followup. Otherwise I assume you accidentally dialed me somehow, because if it was important there would be a voicemail or text.
I’ve been getting way too many spam calls recently so I generally don’t pick up the phone if it’s not from a zipcode I recognize.
Monte
Only if I otherwise enjoy talking to you. So siblings, BFFs, closer work colleagues. Definitely not someone who isn’t already in my contacts. Friends and acquaintances won’t get a call back without a message or text.
Anon
I don’t. Honestly the only person I call at all is my mom.
Anon
I never check my voicemail. I’ll call back if I recognize the number. No callback if number is unfamiliar.
My friends all do the same. We do not leave voicemails because noone checks them.
Interestingly, we all use the voicenote feature on whatsapp!
Anon
Husband, mom, dad and managing partner: yes.
Clients, colleagues, sisters, and others: no, might send a “saw you called, whats up?” to sisters or close colleagues.
Anon
Only if it is someone I know. I think it’s a bit rude to not call back someone that didn’t leave a message. Soooo many people never check their message and because they called your cell, they know that you saw they called. It reads as ignoring them.
Pink
I agree with you 100%. I recently called a work contact who had a voicemail I enjoyed: “This is so-and-so. If you don’t leave a message, I won’t know why you called.”
Thanks, it has pockets!
Nope. If they need something, they can leave a message, text me, or send me a followup email. I’ll admit I Google numbers that are unfamiliar if I’m not expecting a call, but generally anyone who calls and doesn’t leave a message or follow up with an email is assumed to be spam. Or they’re phone banking.
Anon
If it’s family or a friend they get a text back from me asking if they meant to call me or if it was a butt dial.
Everyone else is ignored.
Anonymous
Are Moncler coats worth it? I run cold. I have the Eddie Bauer Sun Valley coat and it’s nice but it doesn’t cut it for the coldest days. I layer underneath but I cannot wear wool so it’s always a bit of a struggle for me to stay warm. I have a neighbor who walks outside a lot year round and swears by her Moncler coat. They seem obscenely expensive but I’m also tired of being cold all the time. Thoughts?
anne-on
Try Soia & Kyo. I was trying to keep my spend on this type of coat at or under $1k. In the before times I went to the big fancy department stores in Boston and tried on Canada Goose (in the freezer, ha), a few Moncler coats, Mackage Puffers, MooseKnuckles (I know) and Soia & Kyo. The Soia & Kyo Camellia was the warmest and had much nicer features (deep hood, inner fabric liner you could zip up for extra warmth or to keep the coat partially opened if you got too hot, fabric cuffs to hold the sleeves in place).
I will say, I ADORE the Moncler genius collaborations that made you look like a colorful walking Dalek, so if you can afford it I would totally go with one of those, or the fabulous daisy puffer!
NYCer
I was going to recommend Soia & Kyo as well. I got one last year after having Eddie Bauer previously, and I find it to be significantly warmer.
Anonie
I had never heard of Soia & Kyo, but my gosh are their coats gorgeous! Thanks for the recommendation.
Anon
It’s from the same people who make Mackage, their cheaper line.
Anonie
Nice!! About to go google Mackage :)
anne-on
FYI they do (or did anyway) offer at least 20-25% off for black Friday purchases, but a lot of the non-black options were sold out or not offered as part of it.
Anonymous
Try layering a thin down vest underneath your parka. That makes a huge difference for me. You can get some tunic length vests as well.
Monday
I run cold and live in a cold climate, and I do shell out for my coats. I have one short and one long Mackage, and I swear by them. I got both second-hand but would have paid full price if necessary. I definitely notice the difference in warmth and quality. If you’re like me, you wear a puffer every day for 6-7 months out of every year. I have never tried on any other ultra-expensive coats, so can’t speak to specific brands…just generally in support of paying $$$$ for the right one, I guess.
Anonymous
I have a Patagonia 3-in-one coat purchased on sale that is incredibly warm.
Anonymous
I can’t comment on Moncler but as a Chicagoan who is always cold I plan to purchase an Aritzia Super Puff for my next parka, replacing my Eddie Bauer (I can’t remember which EB coat I have). The Super Puff is incredibly warm, like Canada Goose warm, for a fraction of the price. Highly recommend checking it out if possible.
Kitten
+1 all the cool Canadians I know have this coat
Anonymous
How is the quality of Aritzia? The internet ads I keep seeing make the brand look sketchy, so I’d been ignoring it.
Kitten
it’s a solid step above Zara IMO
Lily
YMMV, I think Moncler jackets look ridiculous. The only person I’ve seen a Moncler coat look good on is a friend’s mom who’s in her early 70s and is fabulous and has a lot of plastic surgery – it just kind of goes with her whole vibe.
I also think Canada Goose jackets look ridiculous in most contexts (not to mention the ethical implications of the down).
Anonymous
Seriously don’t understand this hate, they are all visually indistinguishable puffers.
kk
I have a moncler coat (received it as a gift) and it’s not substantially warmer than any other similar coat. My pajar coat is the warmest one I have but brand aside- here’s how I stay warm.
1. wicking base layer (silk or wool against your skin) will keep moisture away from your skin, while holding heat in. Cotton will keep you cold.
2. Insulating layer – fleece, midweight wool, down, etc will hold the heat close to your body
3. an outer layer – a long coat that covers my butt and thighs, and stops the wind, a fur or faux fur hood stops wind around your face.
4. Wool socks
5. warm hat and gloves
6. When possible, continue moving and generating body heat!
Anon
You can also get sheepskin insoles from Ugg. They won’t fit in my hiking boots, but they fit in the insulated Bogs I wear on the coldest, messiest days. I’m a clinic escort and standing on cold concrete for four hours … sucks.
kk
thank you for the work that you do
Slippers
I need new slippers/house shoes. What are your favorites? I’ve had Minnetonka and LL Bean moccasin style, but with all the WFH I’d like something with more arch support for all day wear. Plus I’ve worn those two types out so I’m thinking something else might be sturdier. Birkenstock clogs? The Merrell clogs? I like a fuzzy inside but am otherwise agnostic as to how they look.
anon
Don’t judge, but I really want the shearling Birkenstocks. (I own and have the LLBean mocs and the Minnetonka ones you mentioned!)
Slippers
Not judging at all! They are definitely on my list. But I also wear Birks sandals in the summer without any pause, so… fuzzy Birk clogs are right in my wheelhouse. They are 2x the price of the Merrells though.
anon.
My super fashiony 70-year old MIL has the fuzzy Birks and I’m getting them this winter. They’re amazing. I’ve worn my non-fuzzy Birks every day since March though, so YMMV on Birks. I’m also considering the Teva Ember moc.
The original Scarlett
So I got those sterling birks, and sadly, they’re not comfortable – the soles are sooo stiff in a way that my regular ones aren’t. I love my regular Arizona ones and wear them all summer.
Anon
Is it because you didn’t break them in? Birks take time to break in, so it makes sense that the ones you wore all summer are more comfortable than the new ones.
Anon
The break-in schedule is 2-4-6-8, as in hours per day you should wear a new pair.
Anon
Those are mine – the Birkenstock ones. They honestly can’t be beat.
A.
I got UGG slippers as a Christmas gift in 2019 and they, along with my AirPods, have been the MVPs of 2020. I can’t speak to the support part but they definitely have some that are more “shoe” that “slipper.”
anon
+1 to my UGG slippers. They’d be the possession I’d save in a fire.
Anon
I have sciatica, and the Vionic Jackie are my favorite. Note that when it says the strap has a “hook and loop closure” that they’re just avoiding the copyrighted term “Velcro”. I was expecting actual old-fashioned hooks and eyes.
Back when I had the ability to slouch pain-free, I loved the Acorn Chinchilla Bootie (faux fur, despite the name). They were soft and flexible enough that I could either wear them as booties, or squash my heel on top of the the back and wear them as slides.
312
Love my Haflinger’s exactly for this.
brokentoe
The Merrell clogs are wonderful – I’m on my 3rd pair. Fuzzy inside with the support of Merrell shoes/boots. Super easy to slip into to grab the mail or take a dog walk as well. They are not the most stylish footgear, but they would definitely serve your purpose.
Hot Rollers?
I second Ugg slippers. They have a real sole, so they are supportive and so, so comfortable. One of my favorite possessions.
Anon
Third. The posters on here convinced me to get them and I’ve worn them every day since when I’m inside the house. I got the moccasin style with a hard sole.
Anne
Same. I am not an ugg person, but these are dreamy slippers.
AnonMPH
I tried to choose a new type of slipper with more support than the LL Bean ones…ordered a bunch, including Halflinger. Just none of them compare. I’m back to these https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/121223?page=womens-wicked-good-slipper-moccasin-originals-womens&csp=a&feat=23777-recsbottom.pdp and will probably just keep replacing them forever. I’m on my third pair since maybe 2005, so not exactly quick to wear out.
Slippers
Thank you all! Will check these all out.
Anonymous
I posted this exact question a few weeks ago and ended up with Birkenstock Boston clogs with shearling lining. Very happy with my choice but now I want a second pair for outside, since my feet get sad now when I slip on my Allbirds to go outside. I can’t believe I’m at a place, shoe-comfort wise, where Allbirds are the less-comfy shoe, lol.
anon
So the Covid 15 is real, and I’ve come to terms with the fact that many of my pants don’t fit. Thank goodness I’m only going to the office about once a week because I have exactly 2 pairs of work pants that button. I’m super frustrated because I’ve been working out 4-5 times a week the whole time, but it is what it is. (Coincidentally, I also started birth control about 2 weeks before the pandemic started, so maybe that’s part of it, too?) Until I can lose the weight, which is going to be a slow process, what can I do to feel more comfortable in my skin? Luckily athleisure is pretty forgiving in terms of fit, but I just … don’t feel great about how I look and feel right now.
PolyD
Focus on being strong? I miss working out a lot, mostly because I am pretty sure I am losing muscle and I’m not as strong as I was. It was fun to baffle people when I could lift those big water cooler jug things all by myself.
Go ahead and buy a few not-athleisure things that make you feel great in them? I don’t know what size you are now or were before, but maybe there are things that look better on you now that you are a little more substantial. This is hard to do in pandemic times, because best case is you would go to a store and try on a lot of things. As an example, when I was thinner, I did not look great in those swing style dresses that became so popular over the last couple of years. About 10-15 lbs later, those look pretty good on me and I wear them all summer long.
Anonymous
BC could very well be to blame. I gained 20 lbs on BC and lost it when I quit. I was heavier on BC than I was at nine months pregnant. My OB/GYN doesn’t believe me, but my PCP says progesterone does this to a small percentage of women.
anon
OP here. ^&^*#. I went on BC to help control my endometriosis, PMDD, and menstrual migraines. It has worked on those fronts, but my drive to garden is dead, and I’ve gained weight. I’m 40, done having kids, and wish I could find a solution that doesn’t have a major tradeoff. I only agreed to try BCP again after many other options didn’t work. I’m already on zoloft to help the PMDD but it obviously doesn’t work for the other stuff.
Anon
Apologies if this is beyond what you wanted to talk about, but have you looked into ablation? I’m considering a bisalp and ablation myself. I was thinking about it for a while, but the past few days has me thinking a lot harder about permanent BC.
anon
I had laparoscopic surgery for endo about 7 years ago. At the time, my dr. told me that it would be effective for 5-10 years, so I’m right in that window. I’m not sure if I totally understand the difference between ablation and endo removal.
Anon
What have you tried that hasn’t worked? From there, some commenters can give you advice.
anon
Dietary changes to reduce inflammation, and basically treating the symptoms as they arise. That … was not working. I’ve seen a couple of doctors, and it feels like all they offer is band-aid solutions. Zoloft for anxiety and depression. Migraine medication for the headaches, which actually increases my nausea. And now, birth control to even everything out so I’m less likely to experience the hormonal highs and lows. The BC, to be fair, is doing that — but my s3x drive has tanked and it may or may not be causing weight gain. I’ve been trying to avoid surgical intervention again, just because my recovery last time was rough.
edj3
Chiming in to say that when I went on the pill, I gained 30 pounds and had not only nausea very similar to morning sickness but also break through bleeding. I stuck w/ it for about a year and went I went off the pill, those 30 pounds magically vanished and the morning nausea went away. The pill works for lots of women, I am not one of them.
Anonymous
I had nausea and massive weight gain too.
Anon
Me three. Hated it.
Anon
It’s not progesterone; it’s progestin. They’re different enough that the effects can be very, very different.
Anon
Are you sure you gained fat not muscle? I started doing a lot more circuit training during quarantine and was feeling really good about myself– much stronger, etc., and was getting compliments for losing weight– until my work clothes didn’t fit. The size change seems to be mostly from better muscle tone, so I’ve just been trying to make myself feel better about that.
Anon
Muscle is very, very hard to gain. Especially for women. You would have to purposefully work at gaining 15 pounds of muscles in 6-8 months time. It is not going to happen by accident.
Anonymous
It’s not muscle if her pants are getting hard to button. Muscular abs get more toned not larger.
Anonymous
I am right there with you on the Covid 15 (despite working out more consistently than I have in the past 5 years) and started a “reset” for myself about 10 days ago that is really helping me feel better. Part of that is drinking tons of water (70-100 oz a day), including lots of herbal teas. I feel much less bloated and less likely to snack. I’ve also set aside an hour most days to go on a walk/run (walk uphill and run downhill) while listening to my favorite podcasts or music. I feel so much better physically and mentally. Hope this helps.
Anon
Maybe not what you want to hear, but accept your body for the size it is now and buy some nice things to wear in your current size. You’ll feel better if you wear things that fit.
Anonymous
I am so tired of hearing people say that you should just accept your body when there is something clearly wrong happening. OP just went on BC and gained a bunch of weight at the same time. That is a clear signal that she needs to be investigating what’s going on with the BC, not accepting her new weight.
Anon
I agree. Health issues can cause weight gain, and the additional weight can cause more problems. “Accept your new weight” is what you tell someone who is 35 and does not fit into the clothes they bought at age 27, not someone who has weight gain that is likely caused by endocrine disorders.
Anon
And she should buy some clothes that fit until she figures it out. There is no sense going around feeling miserable in too-tight clothes while investigating a problem that will take months at a minimum to solve.
Anonymous
Litigators who have transitioned to Zoom proceedings for court and depositions, what are some of your go to outfits for these events? Do you ever “dress down”, and to what extent? Unfortunately I do not have enough female opposing counsel to get a feel for what new norms are. I can tell there are certain depositions that, due to the witnesses relationship to the case, my male colleagues REALLY dress down for, which was true in the before times as well. FWIW, my go-to outfit for all Zoom appearances is a niceish mockneck sweater, like the Montpellier sweater from Aritzia. Since you can only see from shouldersish up it seems to transcend formality.
Anonymous
I dress down, but dressing down to me means J Crew going out blazer (or similarly stretchy not-wool blazer) over a shell or, if I’m feeling really casual, a black t-shirt. Leggings on the bottom. A sweater is too casual for a court appearance, imho, but could be ok for a dep.
Anon
Sweater or blazer over a solid toned shell is my go-to for zoom hearings/meetings/depos. For familiar clients, I may just wear a solid colored sweater. If it is a hearing before a judge, blazer instead of sweater and over a dress in case I need to stand up suddenly because I know I will look put together. I can’t see the utility of wearing a suit, as I do not think anyone can tell the difference over video, particularly as everyone mostly remains seated.
Anon
So.. I do not really look less formal than I did before, but I definitely wear different things. I have very dark brown hair, and a black jacket looks about the same color as my hair on Zoom, so I no longer wear black blazers. I also do not wear my traditional suiting (very nice wool) because you can’t see that on Zoom, and it doesn’t pop as well on screen. Also, many of my shells for my suiting hit a little lower, so you can’t see them on Zoom and it looks odd. And– no reason to wear anything “dry clean only” right now.
I tend to wear light-colored, mostly tweed blazers over a neutral top. Sometimes these tops are something I would normally wear with a blazer, sometimes they are less formal (but no one can tell on Zoom). My tweed blazers hit higher, so it always clearly looks like I’m wearing suiting on Zoom and don’t wash me out.
Anonymous
For court proceedings, I am wearing a suit. So are my colleagues. Yes, I am sitting at home.9n my couch, but the judges seem to expect a jacket.
For depositions, I am also wearing what I used to wear — either a comfortable dress or a business casual long-sleeved shirt of some kind. For things in the middle, like mediation, I am wearing a brightly colored jacket and coordinating shirt that pops on screen.
Anon
I once signed on to a proceeding a few minutes early and overheard the Judge and clerk complaining about how some of the attorneys aren’t wearing suits/jackets for appearances. I keep a black blazer on the back of my chair and throw it on, with a thin layer of lipstick, over whatever else I’m otherwise wearing. My appearances so far have just been 10-15 minute status conferences though, 80% of which are pleasantries and how-are-yous.
Anon
I wear a suit on top for every zoom appearance.
Full of ideas
I did a series of remote depos last week and opposing counsel wore a hooded sweatshirt once, a golf shirt, and a soccer jersey t shirt… He obviously is all for dressing down. I wore what I usually wear, a colorful blouse and a blazer. It’s still comfortable to me. Honestly, no one but those present see you, but I think the witness (especially if you are taking) appreciates that you look professional.
Anon
this post is likely going to stir the pot, but that is not my intention. i am truly just trying to understand and figure out where the line should be. i was watching a webinar where students are talking about their experience as black students and one student was talking about how he has family in nigeria and is worried about them so emailed a TA to say he couldn’t complete an assignment in time because he can’t focus, etc. bc of what’s going on in the world. i myself had a very sick parent at one point in college and also received some accommodations once with an assignment (not trying to compare this to being a black person in America, realize it is not the same) i know he is only 20, but in two years he will be at a full-time job and if you are a nurse, doctor, lawyer, investment banker, etc. i suppose you can take a sick day, but you can’t just not do your work on time? or should you be able to? like if you perform heart transplants and a heart is available, you can’t just not show up?
Anon
For the most part, instructors are encouraged to accommodate where they are able. Students are also coached (not by the university, but by other students, parents, etc) that it never hurts to ask.
It’s different than how it was when I was coming up, but I’m not sure that’s bad. Most folks aren’t going to be heart surgeons and learning to discern when you should gut it out and when you shouldn’t is itself an acquired skill.
I was raised by a “go to school/work unless you are dead” parent, and acquiring that skill from the opposite direction is tough, too.
anon
My knee-jerk reaction is like yours, but I guess if this student were in the “real world,” so to speak, he or she would have sick or vacation time to take for a mental health break. But yeah, part of me feels like: this situation isn’t going away anytime soon, so figure out how to manage your anxiety and get the assignment done.
Anon
You received accommodations for a task when your daily was sick. For future tasks were you not able to judge the urgency of each task and know whether or not you needed to suck it up and get it done, despite everything else happening in your life? Why would this kid be any different?
Ribena
My last remaining grandparent had pretty bad health for my first couple of years in the workforce and every manager I had was understanding when I was worried about him. When he passed away I had over a week of compassionate leave (plus some contiguous annual leave that had been booked for months).
AnonInfinity
A couple of things:
1. The situation in Nigeria is really scary right now, and I would compare it to having a seriously ill family member (especially because it sounds like his family members are actually there). This isn’t the same as general malaise or just “everthing sucks,” and you yourself apparently received a one-time accommodation for a sick family member. It sounds like he’s asked for a delay for one assignment, not for the whole year or the whole semester, and not in a way that affects anyone else.
2. You’re right that the heart transplant can’t wait. But I assume that wasn’t the assignment in his law school class. I think sick days should be used for any kind of health issue, including mental health. I guess I draw the line at whether the person is being productive at work in a way that matters– i.e., that it doesn’t cause undue burdens on other people at work. I do not consider using even the maximum number of sick days provided to be causing an undue burden because presumably others at work will also be using their sick days and the burden will shift around from time to time. I know it doesn’t always work this way in practice, but the facts you presented are really far away from that scenario.
cbackson
When I was teaching at a law school, I had several students who had family members affected by the 2011 Japan tsunami. Although no one lost a family member, their hometowns were devastated, communication was severely limited, and they were experiencing terrifying aftershocks. I had an affected student scheduled to be on call that day and allowed her to reschedule by her request.
Because school assignments aren’t heart surgery, and whether flexibility is offered in school or in work should be based on the actual facts and circumstances, not on some kind of principle about the importance of hard work.
And also, I don’t really want my heart transplant done by a surgeon who is distracted because he can’t reach his family overseas and fears they may have been arrested/caught up in rioting/killed in a tsunami/etc.
Anon
Honestly, very few 22 year olds are doing anything critical at most jobs. It’s a very long road to performing heart transplants from that age. Was the request ridiculous, maybe, idk the story. But ultimately it doesn’t really matter. I was always thankful when I was granted extensions.
Anon
It really depends. My colleague is a star performer who struggles with depression. Our management definitely offers her grace during difficult periods when she is managing her mental illness.
Anonymous
Do you realize how bad the situation is in Nigeria specifically right now? It’s not just a sick grandparent level of stress if his family is in the affected areas.
anon
+1 I don’t think OP understands that this is not about “being Black in America.”
Anon
Yeah, I’m pretty worried/distraught about the situation there and my only connection to the country is having read some novels by Nigerian writers. If I was 22 and had family there, I would have a hard time concentrating on schoolwork right now.
Anonymous
agree with the comments already posted that the person can take PTO/sick time frequently if he or she were an adult. also, he isn’t an adult yet! he’s still in college! i think it’s okay to give college “kids” some accommodations because they are not yet in the “real world” with all the weights and responsibilities, isn’t okay that they have some more time and space to grow and feel their feelings for a few years? does the extra time for him to finish his homework really hurt him, or others? there’s such a difference between school life and working life, i eprsonally wouldn’t be worried that he can’t tell the difference later on. i think softer approaches in this case are compassionate
pugsnbourbon
+1. If there was ever a time for compassion it’s now. I can’t imagine having family in danger halfway across the world when I cannot get to them.
Anonymous
If you can’t understand the difference between a college assignment and open heart surgery you’re clearly not worth anyone’s time explaining this.
Anonymous
I don’t think it’s fair to compare a run of the mill college assignment to a heart transplant. I don’t think you train students to be good workers – and eventual managers, CEOs, and politicians – by expecting them to treat every assignment as if it should be priority #1 and everything in life comes last. I don’t think you train young people to be functioning adults by treating them as if they are children who cannot possibly be trusted to gauge whether they need to care for their health (and yes mental health is health) more than they need to turn in this week’s journal entry. There will be times that the work comes first, but this is not one of them. Teaching kids to take care of themselves is just as important as teaching them to meet deadlines.
A Nonny Mouse
As a professor, I give extensions for heavy life things for a few reasons. One, my goal for the class is for students to learn, not check off a box of course completed. People don’t learn well under pressure. I went to a high pressure, STEM-oriented undergrad, and not once did a professor’s unwillingness to bend on a due date help me learn the material. When my nephew died during my Masters, and I was given room to grieve, including extensions and an incomplete, I was able to continue learning. Two, I am modeling good teaching to students, and that involves compassion for students’ messy, complicated, and sometimes stressful lives outside of class. Three, I want to “be the change” – I want to make the academic world, and the extended work world, a place where it is okay to be human. When I was late on handing back an assignment and explained it was because I had to leave on short notice for a friend’s funeral in another state, my students returned that compassion and empathy. Yes, I have had many tight deadlines that couldn’t be moved, and I met them. But there many other times where there could have been slack and there wasn’t just because there hadn’t been before. Do we really want students and the people we mentor to be treated poorly just because that was how we came up?
Anon
That’s such a great way to phrase it. Students are in college to learn. It’s not vocational school. It’s not job training. Job skills are taught on the job.
pugsnbourbon
This makes me happy to read. I’m glad you’re a professor.
Cb
My university has a blanket 7 day extension policy which removes a lot of the discretion from individual lecturers. It is annoying to get huge numbers of late assignments but I actually really like it, it isn’t up to me to judge whose mental or physical health crisis is worthy of additional time, and whose isn’t.
And honestly, with the exception of heart transplants, what percentage of real world deadlines are completely set in stone? Most jobs can, will, and should accommodate the fact that their employees may experience physical, family, mental, and logistical issues.
anonshmanon
I would encourage you to approach this situation from the other perspective. We as a society could always use more empathy and grace with one another – if everyone did that, there surely would be a net positive. The cons of giving a student some accommodation are very small, but the pros in terms of this student’s well-being are huge. And (in an ideal world) it might also be better to accommodate the heart surgeon, so that he or she doesn’t perform this operation while is severe distress. I am aware that this is not fantasyland, but the world is shaped by our collective decisions.
Thanks, it has pockets!
I think most students are smart enough to know there’s a difference between school and the workplace, and giving someone an accommodation on an assignment isn’t going to send the wrong message, or leave them unprepared for tight deadlines in the workplace. Just like how you receiving accommodations when you were in school didn’t set you up for failure in your career. I think he’ll be fine. If he’s studying to be a doctor, med school will prepare him for that life, same with law school if he wants to be a lawyer. Internships can play a role in that too.
It’s also worth mentioning that in a lot of jobs – not all! And maybe not yours, but in a lot of jobs – if you’re suddenly unable to do your thing, there’s often someone else that can cover for you, or things can be rescheduled.
Tl;DR, yes, the role of college is to prepare students for their careers, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that all professors need to be super strict and inflexible to achieve that goal. A little empathy can go a long way.
Anon
You develop a lot of coping skills between the ages of 20 and 30. I fell apart a lot when I was 20 and 21, but by 25, could hold it together much better.
Ideally, college should provide a stepping stone: give slack and reasonable deadlines. “Turn in your assignment tomorrow” is not the same as “you don’t have to turn in this assignment, ever” or “this must be turned in today or you fail.”
Context matters
Yeah, I don’t think you have proper context for what he’s asking. That request wasn’t a “it’s stressful to be black in America and I just can’t today”. It’s a “my Nigerian family is in imminent danger by an escalating civil war between citizens and a state sanctioned gang that indiscriminately murders and steals from people for things like having an iphone.”
Think of it closer to someone’s home being destroyed by a hurricane or family is recently displaced in a refugee camp in Syria. Situations like that require compassion and not a “you’ll be expected to do the work in the real world so no sympathy for you on this random unimportant assignment.” And you’d often get compassion in a real work place (at least a decently moral workplace).
Anonymous
I would just like to add my own anecdote at a large state university, where my ADA accommodation due to a chronic illness was required attendance flexibility, meaning I had a standing excused absence from required class attendance. I was very shy and only used the accommodation one time that I can recall, which was the day a term paper was due in class. I was extremely ill, and emailed the paper on time (which was also required), but did not come to class with a hard copy. My professor, who did not know me (it was a giant lecture style class) and had no reason to suspect anything untoward was happening, gave me a zero on the paper. I failed the class as a result. I had to retroactively drop the class and have a permanent W on my transcript. I am a litigator and have never found the “real world” to be nearly this arbitrary and capricious, not even the nastiest judges and law firm partners.
Anonymous
I’m sorry that happened to you, that’s awful. I’ll share my story. At the end of one semester, my then-husband tried to kill me, I escaped to a shelter, and was unable to attend my final exams because he stalked me at school. All professors but one gave me some accommodation to finish the semester. In that one class, I had a 100% on every assignment all year and the final counted for less than 25% of the grade, so even with a 0 on the final I would’ve had a C in the class. The professor refused to allow me to finish the class, so I had a permanent incomplete on my record, which is counted as an F for law school application purposes. As a result, my 4.0 GPA looked more like a 3.5 or something, I forget exactly, but I had to explain the situation in every single application, which made me have to relive a period of my life that I really wanted to forget. Also the advisor who helped me with my law school applications asked me to rewrite my explanation several times because I came off as “whiny.”
can posts here be deleted?
I have a question I’d like to ask the Hive but would hate for it to be identified/recognized in the future. On a site like reddit obviously I could delete my post when done but can’t do that here…will mods delete a post afterward if requested? And if so how do you ask?
Basically…could really use the advice, don’t want the question/situation hanging around for posterity
Anonymous
They can delete it but someone could screenshot it before that happens. Don’t write anything on the internet that you can’t live with being tied back to you.
Anon
And this is also true for reddit or anywhere else.
Anonie
Could you write your story in a way that changes a few unimportant but identifiable details? A friend from high school you had a fight with becomes a friend from college whom you had a fight with? A guy you dated who works in medical device sales becomes a pharmaceutical sales rep?
Also, staying broad is good! I have sporadically skimmed this site off and on for years, but only in WFH times have become a regular commenter. I try to be cautious when writing by referencing the region of the country I live in versus my state, calling relatives “relatives” instead of specifying the relationship, referring to my field versus my exact job title, etc.
Good luck! I hope you are able to get the support/answers you need :)
Anon
This, exactly.
Let’s say you live in Idaho and are having problems finding work in your chosen field of oil engineering; you are considering moving to Texas but you would be leaving your family and college friends. Culturally, Texas would be quite different. You’re 32 and are wondering what the scene in DFW is for people your age, especially those from rural areas.
Here’s your question that you write her: You’re 30, from not-Detroit Michigan, are working in finance, and are considering a move to Texas for a job at JP Morgan or similar. Advice, please.
Anon
+1 this is what I do. I write out everything as is, then go back and change any detail not actually important to the question — including people’s gender.
anon
If you do want to post it on reddit instead maybe just post the nature of your question (relationship / career /health issues) and commentators here can probably point you to a subreddit that would work as well.
Anonymous
Made a big donation to Planned Parenthood today to exercise my frustration with ofMitch’s appointment. Very cathartic.
oil in houston
what a lovely idea. will do that too
anon
There are some professions, like medicine, that require a large capacity to compartmentalize and work perfectly, no matter what’s going on around you or inside you. Medical training is largely about developing this characteristic in those who will make it and weeding out those who won’t. There are also certain jobs, like Big Law, that value this type of work-through-all-circumstances grit.
Regular office jobs, it’s normal for employers to recognize their employees’ humanity. There’s PTO, and it’s becoming more acceptable to use it for mental health or to at least be vague about the nature of your illness. Co-workers cover if you’re sick. Life goes on without you for a day or two. You develop some skills to get better at making sure work is done on time, or prioritizing what absolutely has to be done, on days when it’s tough to focus. DH and I were seniors in college when Hurricane Katrina hit. He went through a period of depression and needed some accommodations, like you’re describing. So did almost everyone else who was actually in New Orleans. Yes, there were heroic doctors and nurses who stayed through horrific circumstances (see above), but from what I’ve been told, regular employers understood what people were going through for a while.
There’s also a huge number of people who find ways to work on their own flexible schedules.
Anon
Statistically, physician suicide is one way that medicine weeds people out currently. So even there we could be doing better at recognizing and supporting people’s humanity (and we could be addressing the physician shortage so there’s more back-up available for physicians).
anon@12:24
Oh, I agree 100%! I have so many stories and so many feelings about this topic.
Anon
Same with pilots, law enforcement and lawyers!
Anonymous
Book suggestions please! I’m not even sure what I’m looking for, so even a genre to search would be great. I really enjoy books set around the 40s with a mystery element but that are more ‘light’ than too focused on the war. Sort of Famous 5 for adults or along the lines of Foyles War in book form? Thanks
Cb
The Maisie Dobbs series is a great one for this. I also really enjoyed The Alice Network and Transcription, but these are a bit heavier.
Anonymous
Check out Patricia Highsmith’s work.
anon
I’m reading one right now that fits this – it’s set in the last 30s in London and is exactly the sort of brain candy i needed this week. Rhys Bowen – Her Royal Spyness
Eager Beaver
The one I recommended below (In Fairleigh Field) is also by Rhys Bowen.
Anon
I think the Royal Spyness books are exactly what you’re looking for, though like the poster above says, set in the 30s not 40s. The Maggie Hope books are set during the war and little heavier, though I don’t think they’re TOO dark. I also love the Maisie Dobbs series, which isn’t light, but is fundamentally optimistic and good hearted. It starts in WWI and is now up to WWII.
Anonymous
Outlander? Time travel from the 1940’s to the 1750’s, then the 1960’s. Set in Scotland with a fair bit of history and romance.
Eager Beaver
The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society and In Farleigh Field both fit this description.
Sloan Sabbith
Widows of Malabar Hill is set in the 1920s in Bombay, but it has some of the same feel as a lot of the WWII historical fiction books I’ve read and certainly has a mystery element.
Next few have less of a mystery element but are historical fiction during or just after war without a distinct focus on the war: Call the Midwife is set just after the war in London and I enjoyed them (haven’t watched the show). Transcription by Kate Atkinson might also fit the bill. The Lost Vintage goes back and forth from WWII to modern day Burgundy and has a bit of a mystery element. The Girl You Left Behind is set in WWI but I’d also recommend it.
Last recommendation, because its excellent WWII historical fiction with a ton of different intertwined stories is Winds of War. One of the main plotlines is about an American woman and her husband who get trapped in Nazi Germany. Getting them out becomes a years-long struggle, and I could not stop reading. There’s also a sequel. One of my all time favorite books- it’s LONG, but incredible.
The Lone Ranger
There was a mini-series of that book way back.
There is also a book (or a series of books) called Fortunes of War about a man and his wife who lived in Bucharest at the beginning of the war and their travels and adventures to return to England. It was also a mini-series back in the day, with Emma Thomson and Kenneth Branagh.
ArenKay
Ellie Griffiths’ series The Magic Men sounds right up your alley.
Anon
Have you read City of Girls? Set in 1940s NYC
Anonymous
By the Rivers of Brooklyn by Trudy Morgan-Cole
Anon
I forget what the series is called but look up Girl Waits With Gun.