Thursday’s Workwear Report: Kelsey Ponte Knit Trousers

294 Comments

1. I am 5’1″ and have sort of thick legs by nature, and am looking for some sneakers to do general exercise. My issue is that everything I try overwhelms my frame, is too wide (even for wide feet), and makes me look like I have duck or alien feet. I don’t understand why some look so good in athletic shoes and I do not. Does anyone else have this issue?

   1. Athletic shoes (real athletic shoes) are not meant to look good. They’re functional pieces of equipment that help you do whatever sport you wish to do. Get the shoes that fit your feet. One of the most common problems the folks who work at the running shoe store see are women cramming themselves into too-small shoes because of vanity. It makes the exercise hurt, leads to injury and nobody cares about what your feet-in-shoes look like anyway.

      1. +1 – I have never once looked at a woman working out and thought her shoes looked too big for her frame.

   2. What shoe size do you wear, and what types of pants/capris/shorts do you wear?

   3. I have duck feet. I balance it off with neutral sneakers and print workout pants to draw the eye off my feet or wider leg styles at the bottom (slight flare vs ankle pants) so the shoe is less duckish.

   4. This isn’t about looks. Athletic shoes are for working out. Get the shoes that fit your feet and are comfortable for “general exercise”.

      1. +1 – shoes for exercise are different than shoes for hanging out. That being said some shoes are definitely clunkier than others. A TON of people at my gym wear the On Cloud shoes and I think they just look SO clunky and weird. Brooks running shoes fit my feet well and despite having lots of super bright colors (I enjoy that for workouts, but others may not) are fairly slim/streamlined IMHO.

      2. Yep, in normal times I do a circuit training class with weightlifting and some cardio (step machines, elliptical, etc). I wear ASICS shoes, I think they are the all-purpose kind, not specifically running shoes. They are sort of shaped like pans, with a narrower heel and a wide toe box – not hugely flattering, but comfortable. I also get them from Kohl’s when they are on sale and I have a 30% off coupon so I often end up with weird colors. But they just get worn to the gym, or, lately, on walks around my neighborhood, so I don’t care what they look like.

         But I do have a couple of pairs of more “stylish” gym shoes. One is a softspun style from Target, and I just got a pair of slip on loafer type casual shoes from DSW, the Sofft brand. They are a pale snake print and I think they are quite cute. I have a black pair, too, and they were comfortable enough for a conference at which I walked about 5 miles over the day.

   5. I wore Nike Free’s for a bit, which were low-profile and stylish, but developed foot pain if I actually exercised while wearing them. Switched to a clunky, cushioned pair of ASICS and my feet are much happier. Have a pair of New Balance Fuel Core Nergize for weekend/casual wear.

   6. Used to wear Nike Free’s, and while my feet looked cute, they hurt. Switched to a cushy, bulky pair of ASICS and my feet are much happier. Have a pair of low-profile New Balance Fuel Cord Nergize for weekend/casual wear.

   7. This is absurd nonsense.

   8. This is just an issue that you don’t like how you look in supportive athletic shoes. It sounds like you might consider buying 2 pair of shoes – a slim profile style of sneakers (thinking maybe some retro asics or nikes? maybe a pair of tretorn sneakers?) and then do another pair of actual supportive athletic shoes. For the latter pair, I would suggest trying a few brands and researching what matches with your foot shape. If this can wait, a specialty running store could be really useful.

      1. +1 I always go to a (good, independent) specialty running store and basically buy what they tell me to. Unfortunately the selection they present me is always from the large-looking/crazy color shoe wall, not the svelte looking shoe wall, bc I work out hard, need support, and need the shoes that can support that. Oh well! Large-looking crazy colors it is!

         I also have separate “sneakers” for daily wear that I would never wear to work out in and that is maybe what you are seeing on other women and comparing your work our shoes to, even though they are not comparable?

      2. I agree that you can’t get both form and function in a single pair of sneakers. I have a pair of cute black Nike Frees for athleisure wear and walking around (I agree with Ruth above that they are not suitable for actual exercise), a pair of Vejas for fashion wear (absolutely no good for walking more than a couple of miles in a day), and some not-cute but comfortable running shoes for actual workouts.

         Also +1 to the running store recommendation. If you can’t wait, browse the blog section of Fleet Feet on the web for thorough reviews and suggestions for your foot type. Most people need to size up a half size in running shoes. Many people also like to add arch support inserts such as Superfeet.

         1. Inserts for all/most is a Fleet Feet thing… a way to upsell. They prefer to sell a neutral shoe and add inserts, when in many cases a stability or motion control shoe (ie. Brooks Adrenaline, Asics Gel Kayano, etc) would be more appropriate.
            On a related note, unless you have prescription inserts from an actual podiatrist, don’t add inserts to a stability shoe and if anyone at a running shoe store suggests adding their inserts, leave and go somewhere else.
            Source: former employee

      3. +1 to a specialty store. For running I need basically a pillowtop mattress in shoe form, which I would not have found out without their guidance and having me do laps around the parking lot in a few different pairs.

   9. I promise you, no one cares how your athletic shoes look. Get something comfortable and supportive.

   10. I can be pretty critical, but I have never seen a woman in sneakers and thought, “Those sneakers are totally flattering on her frame” or “Man, her shoes look terrible on her.”

       You just need something that works with your actual feet. Fleet Feet in Chicago is doing virtual shoe fittings, if you need help with recommendations.

   11. I echo others, get shoes that are comfortable and supportive.

   12. My teenager would say your clunky shoes are super fashionable. She just got new running shoes and is thrilled that they are gigantic all-white Hokas. I think they look like a hideous travesty from the ’90s.

   13. Not intending to pile on, but will report from a place of experience: doing any type of exercise in the wrong shoe for you, for an extended period of time, is a recipe for pain and lower joint/back problems. One of the best things I ever did was get fitted for the right kind of athletic shoe I needed. It turns out that while I don’t need a wide shoe for casual wear or work, I absolutely need one for exercising. Switching from regular-width to wide-width athletic shoes was a game-changer for me. Unless you are looking for an “athletic” shoe just for brunching in, forget about looks and get a shoe that works for you. Forget about looks.

   14. For what it’s worth, I totally have that issue as well. Like others, I don’t think I’ve ever consciously thought someone else’s shoes look wrong for their frame, but we all know that feeling like you look good in your workout clothes makes working out more enjoyable.

       I got trail running sneakers from a running shop, and those were less clunky. I was also teaching Zumba at the time (years ago) and they were actually what the shop recommended based on the type of movement I would be doing.

   15. I don’t have particularly wide feet, but I love my Altras for running. They aren’t the most fashionable shoe in the world because they are designed with an intentionally wide toe box. When I first started wearing them, I thought it looked like I was wearing clown shoes, but they are so comfy so I got over it. I get feeling self conscious in clunky shoes.
       I have “cute” athletic shoes for running around town like the Nike’s people have mentioned, but they are not my workout shoes.
       I second going to a local shoe store, especially for running shoes. They can fit you with the best option for your stride and foot. Also keep in mind, there are shoes designed for different activities. If you are pretty serious about it, you wouldn’t wear distance running shoes to lift weights. You can, but it’s not ideal.
       It all depends on what you are doing in the shoes, but I am a form over fashion person for my actual athletic shoes. Save the cute less comfortable shoes for other occasions.

   16. I agree that it doesn’t matter what they look like as long as they are comfortable and meet your needs….BUT

       My latest pair (ASICS, my preferred brand/fit) is solid black with just white/silver accents on the sides. I feel like those are less noticeable than a brightly colored pair, esp. since I tend to wear black bottoms.

   17. I tried to run in Nike free runs and lost a toenail. Go with the ugly ones with a wide toe box!

   18. I’m guessing you’re also just used to seeing yourself in shoes with a smaller profile and that sneakers aren’t as overwhelming on you as you think they might be. You’ll probably get used to the way they look and not think it’s as bad as you do now.

   19. Maybe try resetting your eye for what is “good” by going to the store and trying on/wearing for a while VERY chunky shoes. Then switch to ones that are apropriate for the planned task . Obviously they won’t be as sleek as your dress/non-atheletic shoes but you’ll have another point of comparison of how chunky shoes can be.

   20. Maybe try resetting your eye for what is “good” by going to the store and trying on/wearing for a while VERY chunky shoes. Then switch to ones that are apropriate for the planned task . Obviously they won’t be as sleek as your dress/non-atheletic shoes but you’ll have another point of comparison of how chunky shoes can be.

   21. Maybe try resetting your eye for what is “good” by going to the store and trying on/wearing for a while VERY chunky shoes. Then switch to ones that are apropriate for the planned task . Obviously they won’t be as sleek as your dress/non-atheletic shoes but you’ll have another point of comparison of how chunky shoes can be.

   22. How are you considering whether the shoes suit you? Because they look different from your viewpoint from above to what other people actually see from a distance.

       That being said, I cannot wear trainers with the clunky, sticky-out heels (like some Nike and Sketcher style shoes, e.g.) – I feel like I’m walking on bizarre rafts and that these massive planks have been added to my feet. Since there are plenty of other shape shoes that I enjoy, I don’t wear the massive, support in every direction stye shoe. :)

       But my feet are the most happy in a low drop, less support shoe for every kind of activity, including running.
       I quite like Inov-8 and Saucony, for specific brands.

   23. I should have added that my feet slide around in them and they are not comfortable, either. They seem very cheaply made as compared to old shoes I have. I feel like an old person. Ha.

       1. Athletic shoes aren’t meant to be “buy it for life” items. Once mine aren’t comfortable for running, I keep them for walking and then they eventually get demoted to mowing the yard, but I almost always wear them out for running before they look “worn out”.

   24. I’ll be the cheese that stands alone and say that I know exactly what you mean. Current athletic shoes are eye-searing. That said, they’re not for looks but for health, so get fitted into the best shoes for your body and sport, and just don’t look down:)

   25. Before the coronavirus, I went to an insanely expensive gym across the street from a movie studio. I would describe everyone in there as “25 and a model” which wasn’t really the case, but the clientele was pretty relentlessly goodlooking (myself excepted). What I noticed is that most of them wore relatively dark/neutral colors (a lot of Lululemon especially) and wore sneakers in similar colors OR very very wild/bright shoes. Get the shoes that are best for your feet, but buy the workout clothes you like the best.

       While I still have bad days, a lot of my anxiety about the way I look* is assuaged by doing a little extra dressing up (face powder, re-do lipstick, finding my nice jacket) even if I’m just going to the gym or the grocery store. If I feel like I look good leaving the house, I feel less bad when I go where all the pretty people are being pretty.

       *I’ve lived in LA for the past several decades, and while it’s not a real-time reality show, I do think people spend a higher-than-average amount of time trying to look nice *and* every pretty person from a small town seems to move here so the median prettiness seems pretty high.

   26. I agree that athletic shoes are not terribly flattering for us short and wider women. But function and fit is most important. And I’ve found that wearing capri leggingss is a better look for me and helps the dumpiness factor, except in the coldest weather.

       HOWEVER, I think my Asics are quite cute and flattering. I use them for running and walking. They don’t last forever but they are great until they wear down. I put a lot of miles on mine. I’ve been buying this brand for 3-4 years now..

2. Am I insane for considering a career switch from lawyer to nurse? I’m 5 years in to practice and I hate the law and frankly always have. I was one of those people who went to law school straight from college because I just didn’t know what else to do. I’d actually make more money nursing than in my current position, though the year of school and lost wages would cost about $100,000.
   I need something fast paced and meaningful and insurance defense ain’t that. I was previously a prosecutor and although it was fast paced and meaningful, I grew weary of the constant arguing and having to battle everything. I feel that way now too- I’m just sick of having to argue over everything. I have several family members who are nurses and they’ve made great lives for themselves with plenty of flexibility for their families. Am I nuts?

   1. No, not at all. Nursing does have a higher than you’d expect burn out rate, but I strongly believe that life is too short to be miserable.

      Also, I do know a couple of JD/BSN’s who work in compliance/hospital admin and they have an incredibly useful skillset.

      1. Agree with the last sentence — the minute people find out you are a lawyer, you will be the lawyer-nurse and not just a nurse.

         Your local uni may have BA-> RN programs for working adults and there is probably a staff person you can talk to about the application process and prerequisites. A lot of nursing stuff is in-person learning at the key points, so how they can deal with this (spring 2021 maybe) would be good to know for being able to finish what you start. Worth looking into. I know someone who left finance to go nursing at Hopkins and loved being an ER nurse. But I feel that you will get pushed into administration pretty fast (which can be fascinating, but a place of hard choices as soon as this mess clears).

   2. You are not nuts! But make sure you really think it through. It sounds like you’ve already talked to some nurses in your family, but if not, have some conversations with them about what they love and hate about their jobs. Think about what it will take to go back to school – the lifestyle change, the cost, etc. Think about what it means especially with respect to our current circumstances – nursing puts you at risk in ways that law might not. Think about other jobs that might also give you the same fast paced, meaningful experience you’re craving, and weigh which pathway makes the most sense. Best of luck! It’s exciting to contemplate a change like this.

      1. Do some shadowing first, as much as you can. As a floor nurse (and as a student doing clinical rotations) you would be on your feet 12+ hours a day, and a lot of the work is extremely not glamorous. Health care is a field you should go into because you love it and can’t be happy doing anything else, not because you don’t know what else to do.

   3. Is there another option where you stay in law and switch practice areas? I think you can find fast-paced and meaningful in a lot of practice areas (non-litigation perhaps).
      I’d also be realistic about what the early years of nursing may look like and what seniority and experience you need to get the preferred shifts/positions.

      1. OP here- That’s what I’m trying to figure out. I’ve spent the last few months combing job openings for legal positions that would be realistic for me to attain. It’s just that none of them sound interesting! Is there a good legal job or legal-adjacent job out there that would give me the work, salary, and lifestyle I want? I don’t know, and I’m really struggling with that. We save my whole salary and live off of my husband’s so although that $100,000 would certainly go a long way to our long-term financial goals (namely the forever house in 5-6 years), we won’t need to dip into savings for my lost year of salary. I would take out a loan for school though and pay it off ASAP. Husband makes in the low six figures so we are comfortable financially but the one year nursing program would still be a lot of money going out. I haven’t mentioned kids in my calculus because we are currently going through the infertility wringer, but hopefully a baby or two will be in the picture soon.
         Husband is on board. He gives me the whole “I want you to be happy” which is very sweet but I do hope that’s his true feeling. I know bedside nursing is not for me but I’ll likely have to do that for the first few years. I don’t mind weekend and night work because husband has odd hours as well. In my pro/con list, nursing is currently winning. I can’t shake the feeling that I’ll be wasting my law degree and the last five years though. Although, as PP mentioned, I could parlay the BSN/JD into a role that uses both. Ughhhh

         1. Why not health care law? It’s challenging and exciting and frustrating but it’s great to work side by side with clinical colleagues. Great job prospects as well. My concern is that if you are saying “I know bedside nursing is not for me” then you are not meant to be a nurse.

            1. Yes agreed 100%

            2. I have a nurse friend who will very frankly tell you she is not interested in caring for conscious patients (aka the bedside nurse thing). She basically works as a surgeon’s assistant, assisting during surgeries. Her particular niche is OB/GYN as she helps with C-sections, and any other ‘below the waist’ female surgeries. She is on call once a week and also a weekend or two a month and otherwise has a 3-8 hour day of surgeries each day during the week. Her work picks up significantly at the end of the year as people schedule surgeries once their deductible has been met for the care leading up to the surgery. She is her own business, contracting with the surgeons and travels to whichever hospital those Dr’s are working at.
               I don’t know how you get this sort of niche job. I do know she just has a bachelor’s degree. I would imagine her regular surgical work has taken a downturn in this COVID-19 environment. I don’t know how any version of universal health care would cut or reduce her earnings (I assume it would). She does NOT do bed side nursing and makes at least double what I do (engineering here).
               All that said, it’s possible to be a nurse and not clean out bed pans, or be spit on, or all the other perks of a bed side nursing.

         2. If you don’t want to do bedside nursing, what do you want to do? That’s the bread and butter of the profession! I would not recommend going into nursing if you already know you don’t want to do that.

            1. +1000000

            2. married to a nurse – bedside nursing is actually a relatively small part of the profession. there are MANY other things to do with a nursing degree other than work as a bedside nurse in a hospital setting.

         3. If you don’t want to do bedside nursing, it sounds like you don’t actually want to be a nurse.

            1. Yeah, I don’t get this.

            2. Yeah, my sister switched careers to become a nurse and as she puts it, there is no way you’re going to become a nurse without cleaning up someone else’s sh1t.

               In hindsight she thinks maybe she shouldn’t have done it. She likes the clinical stuff (the science) but hates the politics and pecking order among nurses at the large hospital where she works. She wanted to get out of office bureaucracy and corporate BS but has more of it now. She now thinks she should have become a PA.

            3. oh and one more thing. In nursing, there’s no such thing as a work from home day, and as a new nurse, you are likely to work the shifts no one else wants.

               In terms of the pecking order, your well-planned and thought out vacation days, already approved, can be suddenly dis-approved because a nurse senior to you made a last-minute decision that she wanted those days. In fact, she may want them precisely because you scheduled them, and she doesn’t like you (most likely due to you not “knowing your place” in the pecking order.)

   4. I know a few people who have done this and are happy. But talk to nurses about their workdays before making the switch; you do not want to trade one set of problems for another. Think about what tasks you enjoy doing and what you do not enjoy doing.

      1. I mentioned this to a nurse and she laughed at me. She was an ER nurse full of bitterness. I don’t know her well enough to know why (she is a friend of a friend brought to a happy hour). It dawned on me that the vision of nursing that I saw didn’t involve something common in every work environment — the bitter angry toxic co-worker. I’m still interested, but it dawned on me that I’d be low on the totem pole as a nurse in a health care environment and possibly have less control of my work circumstances than I do now.

         1. I am a lawyer. Some of my daughter’s friends parents are nurses, and some are doctors. The nurses have become my friends. The doctors are all horrible jerks who are used to ordering people around and getting their own way. They appear to have been trained to have an inappropriately high level of self-confidence and not to view other people as human beings. I would never want to work with these people, especially not in a subservient role.

            1. Huh, I’ve heard the same thing about lawyers :)

            2. First of all, people say the same thing about lawyers. So is this true about you? Second, my sister is an ICU doctor, and I can assure you that she views other people as human beings. She’s spent the last two months fighting with her administration to get proper PPE for herself and the nursing staff and everybody else she works with, putting her career at risk to do what’s right. GTFOH

            3. yeah man, doctors are the worsttt. don’t you just hate how they like try to help you and save your life? so annoying ugh

            4. Every profession that involves a lot of education or prestige has arrogant a**holes in it who put on airs about it. Then there’s everyone else!

            5. First off, what a rude thing to say! A lot of my friends are doctors who are wonderful people. I find it especially appalling to make such a statement in times where they are literally working around the clock, isolating from their families and risking their own health to save people, but yes, what selfish jerks!

               Second, people say the same thing about lawyers.

               Third, no matter what job you have, you always are going to have someone you are “subservient” to (although what a weird way to phrase that..), whether that’s a boss, a more senior partner, a doctor, a board of directors, shareholders, clients, customers, etc.

            6. That’s the person and not the profession. There are people who will get drunk on power in any area they work in, from dog catcher up through doctors. There are people who can’t just “turn off” work and behave normally in non-work settings.

               Want my horror stories about teachers? I stopped being friends with a few who thought that they were “in charge” of me because they are used to being in charge of everyone around them. But that’s a few individuals, and I’m sure if they would be obnoxious in any setting.

         2. I work in a medical-adjacent field and was raised by a nurse and let me tell you, workplace bullying is pretty rampant in many areas of nursing. They tend to eat their young.

            1. Plus a million times a million – see my post about my sister above.

      2. A friend of mine was a nurse and while she loved it, it was also very, very difficult. She worked nights, and so her schedule never aligned with anyone else’s. She was on a med-surg ward (surgical recovery) and often had patients who were delirious, who had mental illness, who had dementia, on top of pain and discomfort post surgery. She was one of the kindest, most compassionate people I know but even then, she had weeks or months of burnout.

         If she was still here while all of this was going on, I’d be worried sick about her. Proud as hell, because I know she’d be on the front lines, but frightened for her safety. Just something to consider- can you handle crises like this? What if you have kids?

   5. Explore it!

      I was never a lawyer, but in a past (academic) career I worked for large law firms twice. I am now a health care provider, having gone back for another degree. I recently passed the point in time where I’ve been in this second “career” longer than I was in my first one. I stopped looking back years ago and am so glad I did it, for (as you say) the sense of meaning. Before, I often felt like I was posturing, and rolling my eyes at my colleagues and myself.

      I still get into arguments all the time, but they are internal debates about what we should be doing rather than advocating on behalf of a client or interest group or whatever.

   6. I considered this because I can see just how vital and necessary nurses are. The time and cost of additional education detered me. A local nursing school has a year long accelerated course for people with bachelor degrees, but I would need to take many prerequisites. I’m almost done paying off my student loans and when that burden is gone I’m not signing up for it again.

      I’ve decided to explore career/life options that don’t require additional education. You don’t need more formal education to change your life and make a difference.

   7. As someone who went the other way (nurse to lawyer), be very careful before you make too many changes. Nursing is physically and emotionally draining in a way that is hard to fully explain. I was a nurse in my 20’s and my back and legs ached for at least a day after every shift. Now in my late 30’s, it’s hard to imagine dealing with that. Nurses also take a ton of abuse from absolutely everyone – patients, families, and doctors. It was so, so hard.

      This probably isn’t possible now with COVID-19 but once it is an option, I’d strongly recommend shadowing someone to try to get a feel for what it is like. My first shift as a CNA I had to help with a bowel cleanout. I wish I had shadowed to know more what I was getting into. I somehow lasted 7 years and am happy to answer questions if you’d like.

      1. I am friends with doctors, nurses, and mid-level providers (CRNAs, NPs, PAs). I think, and my doctor friends agree, that mid-level providers are the happyiest and if the doctors (primary care and one specialist) had to do it over, in terms of time in school (substantial for these vs getting an RN) and debt and hours and happiness, they would be mid-level providers.

         1. Counterpoint, my husband has tried to talk several of our friends out of going to PA school and do medical instead. He’s still finishing residency, and also in a specialty so his residency is not as grueling as it could be, but I have a hard time seeing his opinion change as his career continues.

            1. No doubt — I think that it can be that med school is very hard to get into (not like law schools, sadly), so even PA and NP programs are very competitive now with people who are just trying to get into a program.

         2. I was just about to make the same suggestion about being a PA or NP. As an RN you will be taking orders from other people (MDs). At least if you’re a mid level provider (AKA APPs-advance practice providers) you have some degree of autonomy and can go into any field of medicine not just primary care. Not sure but might be faster to go the PA route than the NP route. Also I think being a CRNA (certified nurse anesthetist) is a pretty good gig as well, depending on where you practice.

         3. I think if you can get into a top med school and subsequently a top residency program and enjoy the research aspect of medicine, you’ll enjoy being a doctor. If you’re more interested in caring for patients and some science, totally agree a CRNA/NP/PA role would be more your speed. If you’re debating between doctor and nurse, go the mid-level role. Being a Doctor is a lot more science and research than most people get.

   8. What about being a public health nurse? You could still get the flexibility but it might not have quite as much workplace stress.

   9. I am a nurse practitioner. I don’t think this idea is crazy at all. If I couldn’t be a nurse practitioner I would be happy as an RN. Don’t worry about being low on the totem pole. A smart , professional competent nurse will move up quickly. In a big hospital system there are many, many opportunities. I would recommend considering a bachelors to masters RN program if it financially makes sense- you could get a pretty high level position with that plus the law degree. Also, people get dramatic about the toll on your body but I worked with many older fit nurses who were doing great. Also, in my area hospitals have sophisticated lifting equipment to help move patients and they really don’t want you to be doing heavy lifting.

      1. OP- This is good to hear. My best friend is a primary care NP and my sister in law is a CRNA. Both are very happy and both make enough money that the cost of the degrees (both are second careerists) was worth it. I think OR or trauma and then some kind of advanced practice or med/legal adjacent role would be my ideal. I’m glad you mentioned the “low on the totem pole” aspect because I have to admit is a concern of mine. I have autonomy and respect now, and sadly many RNs don’t.

   10. I say go for it! I have a friend who went back to school for nursing about 10 years out of college. I believe she had to do some additional coursework before actually doing the nursing program. She was the same as you – unhappy in her current career, wanted to do something meaningful, and had family members who are nurses so knew what she was getting into.

   11. Come join us in Marketing. There’s a 2 drink minimum.

   12. You’d only lose 100k? Adding up your lost salary PLUS the cost of tuition for nursing school? And you’d start at the bottom in nursing. And you’d still make more as a nurse? A few of my friends are in insurance defense, is it really this low paying? News to me.

       1. Yup. Pre-tax I made 52k as a prosecutor and I make 65k pre-tax doing insurance defense. My salary will be cut by 20% beginning this month due to covid, though supposedly that will be made up by the end of this year. I’m in a large city in the NE and I graduated from a T30 law school. I’m really tired of being underpaid and hating my job. Without any OT at all, nursing salaries start around 66-70k in my city. So figure my post-tax income is about 45k, and school would cost about 45k, I’m looking at around a 90k hit.

          1. Wow. As an insurance defence litigator, that sounds terribly low.

          2. How about non-litigation work? I work at a legal aid organization doing exclusively administrative law. I work 35 hours a week, rarely ever more. I make about $65K. My clients can be very difficult, but I am never in court and my only legal arguments occur on paper.

          3. I like being a lawyer, but I would also hate those jobs and would feel very underpaid. My tiny Midwestern firm pays more than that for brand new associates!

       2. I agree – this sounds really low! My former firm had an insurance defense group, and all of the associates were making over $100k. My firm now I’m in insurance coverage and am making more than I did at my former firm! I’m in a small-ish Southern market, too.

   13. I would say you have to know what you’re getting yourself into, and not just the idea of it. I’m neither in law nor nursing so I don’t have specific advices. I just know that I’ve contemplated a career change in the past and ended up not doing it because of the associated costs of starting over again. I didn’t love my job but the industry was a beast I knew. And I knew it well enough to figure out a better place to be without completely removing myself from the industry. Maybe there are other legal jobs where you’re not fighting all the time. Different specializations or employers. I don’t know, again, I’m not a lawyer. I just know every industry has its own crap and you may just be borrowing a other set of troubles.

   14. My wife went back to school for a second degree nursing career (definitely get a BSN, gives you more options). She later went on to get become an advanced practice provider which took an additional 2 years.

       In non-covid times, I will say her job is mostly awesome. She works three 12 hr shifts a week and is considered full time. No nights, weekends, holidays, or obligations to check email outside of work hours. She can pick up extra shifts easily for 1.5x pay. Is she works anything over 36 hours a week, she earns 1.5x pay for that additional time. Makes 200k+ a year in a large NE city.

       Two downsides –
       1) the hours are arduous. She is on her feet working for all 12 hours of those shifts.
       2) there is no flexibility with her work day. She can pretty easily trade days with people, but there is not coming in late/taking some time out during the day for doctor’s appointments or school meetings, etc. She needs to arrive at work on time and then work continuously during the day.

       I will say to the points above about being doctor’s being jerks – this is usually not a big deal in non-covid times. There are jerks in any profession, she just roles her eyes and keeps it moving.

       In covid times though, it has been really disappointing how docs in her blended practice (doc and NP) have behaved. They (and their national advocacy groups) are pushing care models that disproportionately put the risk of covid care to mid and lower level providers. (ie proposing staffing models that have nurses be in covid wards for 12+ hr shifts while docs spend much less time with actual patient care – while also advocating that docs have the best PPE.) This is in opposition to many established best practice models from hospitals on the front lines of covid care.

       From speaking with her friends in similar roles in other hospitals in our large NE (non_NYC) city, this dynamic seems to be consistent. Its honestly pretty disgusting and there is a lot of rage in her practice group. It will be interesting to see how this plays out after covid. Hard to work with people when they show such little respect for your life or that of your family. The nurse protest in DC yesterday I think was very interesting.

3. Current situation is making my skin look extra tired and on a fast-track aging course. What’s your skin care regimen? I’ve been haphazardly using Aveeno face wash, sheer moisturizer with SPF, Neutrogena Hydrogel eye cream then Neutrogena retinol face and eye cream at night. Neutrogena Hydrogel sunscreen is non-greasy and doesn’t cause breakout. Are vitamin C serums or another multivitamin serum worthwhile? Is a different inexpensive brand better?

   1. I’ve found that while my face tolerates all sorts of acids really well, vitamin C seems to inflame my face.
      For tired-looking skin, chemical exfoliation seems to be the way to go. I alternate between retinol (works deep down) and a Glycolic acid (works on the surface) each night with good results. Before, it felt like my face had a thin layer of dead skin over it, and moisturizer didn’t help and it made foundation look very aging.

      I’ve heard great things about the Ordinary. I have one product from there that mirrors a more expensive brand I use, and I’m pleased with the quality for the money. I may gradually transition my products to that brand

      1. The Ordinary and the higher end Deciem brands are all really great. The guides and skincare regimens have really helped me.

         1. +1 to Deciem and The Ordinary.

      2. Anyone have comments on retinol “purge”? I tried the ordinary’s product twice (like one night, twice) and both times ended up with huge deep zits. I’ve read that this is the “purge” that you have to fight through but it was truly truly awful. I trust the hive’s experiences more than random blogs – any advice?

   2. I use the loreal vitamin C serum and it is definitely worth it for brightening and hopefully wrinkle prevention ( I don’t have many yet). I use vitamin c twice a day and retinol at night. Prescription or prescription strength retinols are better.

   3. I upgraded to Kiehl’s calendula water cream with serum and really like it. I find Vitamin C products acidic and too drying.

      1. OP here: Thanks for the recs. My goal is to not have an excessive amount of products, but have enough of a regimen to be worthwhile. Does cleanser, moisturizer, serum and a retinol/glycolic acid sound sufficient? I’ve bought eye cream in the last but have read it’s unnecessary. Are more expensive products that much better than drugstore?

         1. Oh and sunscreen.

         2. Don’t forget, order matters! A general rule is to go least oily to most oily. I’m not a guru so someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think you’d want to go cleanser, retinol or acid, serum, moisturizer, sunscreen.
            I don’t do a serum, so I do cleanser, moisturizer, sunscreen in the morning and in the evening I do cleanser, acid, moisturizer.

   4. The Ordinary’s EUK is my go-to for skin brightening/evening. It’s an antioxidant which serves a similar purpose to Vitamin C but I got way better results with EUK than the Vitamin C serums I tried.

4. I’m feeling very stressed today because I talked to my supervisor about a coworker who I believe to be committing fraud (via egregious lying on timesheets to our government clients – think billing 18 hours instead of 2 for a given assignment). I didn’t use the word fraud, but that’s what it is. I know of it because I am doing all the work on his project (which he directs), but he is billing even more hours despite having minimal to no involvement in the work product and skipping conference calls with the client. Now I feel like a snitch and a POS even though I know I’m technically obligated to report it per the terms of my employment. I don’t know if I would feel that way if we weren’t in the middle of COVID-19 (I don’t want him to lose his job right now, although I don’t have reason to believe my boss will act on this information – there have apparently been rumors and issues for years). Has anyone else ever had to do this? Am I the world’s worst person timing-wise right now?

   1. Ugh, that would not be a fun position to be in. But to help reframe it, whatever ends up happening is not your fault at all. It is entirely coworker’s fault for doing something unethical, which had the domino effect of forcing your hand in informing someone per your employment agreement. Coworker brought both of those things entirely on themselves.

      1. +1 this totally stinks to be in this position but none of this is your fault.

      2. +1 agree completely and I understand the feeling, but this is actually a criminal offense if gov’t funds are involved. I have had clients go to jail for knowingly overbilling hours on gov’t projects. It sucks right now but it might help to remember that this work situation is temporary, and you have to live with yourself forever. In the long term you will not regret speaking up, even if it leads to nothing. And if it leads to nothing and still bothers you, you can call the relevant agency’s fraud waste and abuse hotline and report there anonymously.

   2. As a taxpayer and government employee, I thank you for looking out for prudent management of government funds.

   3. You need to meet your own ethical obligation to report and then let it go. I once uncovered wholesale plagiarism of my own work that got the perpetrator terminated. I felt guilty over that. Then the person ended up getting an even better job and I got angry. The moral of this story is that paying attention to the results will only make you unhappy no matter which way it turns out. Just do what you need to do to keep your own conscience clear.

   4. You are a hero but will need to get out of there eventually. No one will ever trust you again,

      1. What a response.

      2. What a weird response. I don’t know why someone wouldn’t trust a coworker after that coworker reported government fraud….unless that person is also committing fraud

   5. Ugh, sounds like my old boss. Our clients weren’t government but I could not mentally handle the ethics and quit.

5. Yesterday’s poster re St. John pieces got me thinking re leather jackets. I’ve always wanted one (maybe with some moto detailing or quilted areas). People say they make an outfit. But where do you wear them? As outerwear (and then remove inside)? If it is outerwear, do you not have an outfit then once you are inside (99% of my life is inside, even without coronavirus)? Just wear it inside anyway as a blazer? Might it be too hot (I am always cold though — perhaps this is the fix)? Could it be tough to move your arms in an office job with a lot of typing?

   1. I loooove my leather jacket (was an early Xmas gift to myself) but it is definitely outerwear. I got the Mackage Baya in Berry – this but in a deep purple-y red:
      https://www.mackage.com/us/en/baya-classic-leather-moto-jacket/BAYA-R.html?dwvar_BAYA-R_color=COL640&cgid=womens-leather-jackets#start=2&cgid=womens-leather-jackets
      For inside wear I’d totally pick up one of the Blank NY ones – they seem to be heavily marked down at the moment:
      https://shop.nordstrom.com/brands/blanknyc–8779/women/clothing/filter/blazers-jackets~8000786_60202026?breadcrumb=Home%2FBrands%2FBLANKNYC–8779%2FWomen%2FClothing&flexi=8000786_60202026

   2. this is why I don’t own one. I feel like they are meant for someone else’s life. Beautiful officewear type leather jackets make me feel like I’m doing Suze Orman cosplay. “Cool” leather jackets are not only too cool for me (I have zero chill), but seem designed for, like, a 24yo who throws it on a crisp fall morning to walk the dog, then switches to something else to walk to meet friends for brunch (outside of course, the dog comes along), then window shops…

      Went anon because I’ve described this to people in real life, but my ultimate example is when we were flying home from Paris, a 20-something French passenger wearing the perfect jeans-tee-leather jacket combo waltzed – in slouchy devil-may-care fashion – onto the flight to NY literally carrying nothing other than her phone in her pocket and presumably a credit card stashed somewhere. Who cares if her luggage was delayed, she was dressed for anything that might await her that evening.

      1. I feel like if you DO buy one you also need to spend a decent amount of time finding one that fits your size/shape, and in which color suits you. I luuuurve the Mackage Baya (was my big black friday splurge) but it is fairly stripped down in terms of hardware, and I got it in the ‘Berry’ color which is more my style than a black one.

         1. Agreed. I’ve been looking for a good quality one in navy.

   3. I tried one in an office appropriate cut and ended up hating it. I tend to coat myself in ink during the day and the cleaning bills for the leather were astronomical. I was gifted another that’s an outerwear piece and the color wore off the cuffs and I ended up making bits of it into a sofa pillow. I would give leather a hard pass.

   4. I have a charcoal gray leather jacket that I love, and I treat it as a blazer.

      1. Mine is more of a biker style with a banded snap neck.

   5. I had one and got rid of it because it was literally never possible to wear for the reasons you describe. I think if I lived someplace where it doesn’t actually get cold it might have been useful? There are very few places where I don’t take off my outerwear and I could never get the elements right that looked good under the jacket and were sufficiently outfit + warm enough when the jacket came off.

   6. I saw a woman speak at an event wearing a flowy midi dress, booties and a leather moto jacket. I decided to copy this look and bought a Topshop leather jacket and Joie silk wrap dress and I feel amazing when I wear them. I feel like it’s a “look,” though, so I have never worn it twice in front of the same people. I also don’t think I could have pulled off the look when I was younger but I just turned 50 and feel like I can carry it off.

      1. That sounds amazing. I bet you look great!

   7. I have a beautiful, designer treat-myself leather jacket I wear (not in the office) that makes an outfit like you describe. I wear it outside at beer gardens or rooftop bars when you just need an extra layer but do not want to hang out with fancy drinks in a coat, I hate that look and feeling. It can go over dresses, jeans and ankle boots, so many things outfits. I also wear it inside at restaurants and bars and networking events, but again, not in the office.

      I have a more understated (and cheaper) BLANK NYC black suede moto skyle jacket that I can wear in the office, but not when I’m typing, just to meetings and walking around the office. It’s a great because I don’t love a lot of traditional blazers that I think look stuffy, but it’s pulled together so I have a good third piece when I meet with clients and tech and marketing people who tend to dress more fashion-y than lawyers, accountants, finance people.

   8. I have a collarless moto one from Reiss (from a few years ago, but picture here: https://www.selfridges.com/US/en/cat/reiss-anna-seam-detail-leather-bike-jacket_952-10025-176001ANNA/ ). I wear it literally everywhere (except work or the gym) as a light jacket spring and fall – I get more use out of it than probably anything else in my wardrobe, even in the limited time it’s seasonally appropriate. Leather jacket season is my favorite – I wear it outside, I wear it inside, and just layer underneath as appropriate. Like, if it’s warmer during the day, and cooling off later, I’ll wear it with a t-shirt, then throw a sweater in my bag to put under it later. Also great with dresses! I’m kind of obsessed with it.

6. I used to wear Tretorns as my white casual sneakers but I’m looking for something with a little more room in the toe-box area (wider there without being a wider width). Would Chuck Taylors work better? I have never had a pair before (and desperately wanted them as a teen, then somehow never got them). Any sizing advice? I hate not being able to try things on in a store — mail order roulette is not my thing.

   1. I have duck feet and sometimes my Chucks rub on my baby toes until they are broken in. I find this happens more with the ‘fashion’ ones than the standard lo-tops and going up a half size dos help. That said, once they are broken in, I love them. I know the lack of support isn’t for everyone but they are my standard spring/summer commuting and weekend shoe. I like that they look cute and I can toss them in the washing machine when they get mucky.

      1. Thanks — I have triangular duck feet, too. My little toes have busted through the fabric on many a previous pair of canvas sneakers (after lots of wear and many washings). Maybe they are just little rebel piggies?

         Since we are similar-footed, are they any shoes / brands that you love? My duck feet thank you!

         1. I hate shopping for/wearing shoes and work in a casual workplace where I can get away with most things. I love Chucks, like the Merrill trail runners and a pair of basic black leather boots, Sperry is great – I have booties and the duck boots, I like the knock-off Toms from Skechers. My basic work shoes are Cole Haan and Ecco ballet flats.
            I do prefer shoes I can throw in the washing machine – I live in Scotland where even the summers are quite wet so appreciate being able to toss them in.

   2. I love Supergas for a wider toe box.

      1. Yes, this. And this is from someone with six toes on each foot.

   3. Try Keen.

   4. I also have wide feet (bunions) and find supergas to be really accomodating. My Chuck Taylors would rub after long periods of wear.

   5. Chucks run narrow in the toe box. Try classic vans for a similar vibe but wider toe box.

7. I liked reading the all-clad discussion from yesterday! What are the hive’s recommendations good non-stick pan for eggs?

   1. I’ve been relatively happy with a Greenpan. Inexpensive, and claims to be less hazardous to health than a typical non-stick pan, FWIW.

      1. we swapped all our pots/pans out for greenpan and love them – they’re so easy to clean and a year in look brand new.

   2. I use the All-Clad for eggs. I didn’t like some of the greenwashing I was seeing from non-stick brands and I’ve had no problems. You just have to preheat the pan well.

      1. +1 I use the All-Clad for eggs. With proper pre-heating and oil never had an issue

   3. No non-stick pan lasts that long, so I wouldn’t spend tons of money on them. I’ve used Swiss Diamond and liked it, but after 4 or 5 years, things started to stick to it. We just bought a Calphalon nonstick pan on sale, and it’s been great, but I don’t expect it to last 10-20 years either. I’m sure All-Clad would be good too.

      I’ve heard suggestions of using a carbon steel pan. They’re cheap and lighter than cast iron, but you maintain them in basically the same way. Like cast iron, with a proper seasoning, they’re nonstick.

   4. I have 2 Calphalon non-stick pans that have lasted at least 6 years (I think longer) with no signs of dying. I use them often and just avoid using metal instruments in them. They are the kind with browning capability. I am very happy with them.

      1. +1 my Calphanon pans have lasted several years now and they are still working great.

   5. I like the Tramontina ones I bought from Costco. Threw out the ones I bought from TJ Maxx/Marshalls, name brand ones that I guess were seconds and really were secondary in quality.

   6. Just buy whatever cheap non-stick. They’re not going to last that long anyway.

   7. I got a Scanpan at Sur La Table for cooking eggs and it is AMAZING. It is truly nonstick. It’s fun, because you can play around with egg cooking a little bit more. I can even do this air flip with this pan! I’ve had cheaper pans before, and even when brand new they were nowhere near as awesome as the Scanpan.

   8. I love electric skillets for eggs.

8. for those of you who do not live in NYC but travel there frequently for work or personal reasons – when do you think you will be comfortable going there again? and does how you get there (plane, train, drive) impact your decision? are there any behaviors you would change once you are there?

   DH and I were discussing this last night – we live a plane ride away from NYC , but he used to travel there for work a lot and we have friends/family in the area, but flying with twin toddlers who touch everything we just aren’t sure what we think.

   1. Following. I used to travel a lot, including visiting NYC 3-4 times a year. I can’t imagine getting on a plane for a long time, but I’m interested to hear what others think.

   2. Realize you aren’t asking for perspective from NYC people but I live in NYC and I don’t think NYC will be any worse than any other large city and perhaps may even be slightly better if antibodies turn out to be a thing since it’s likely that a higher percentage of NYCers have had it. That said, I’ll be avoiding public transit and crowded places for a while and I wouldn’t personally go to another crowded city if not necessary until we have more information about this.

      1. +1. All cities seems less safe than rural areas due to the density of the population. But I think NYC is safer than other big cities because they’ve reached their peak and are coming down, while other cities haven’t peaked yet.

         1. This is a downer because I have little to no interest in visiting rural areas before all this and I don’t think that will change. At that point I’d rather just go on fewer trips but make them big international trips or long beach or cabin trips.

            1. Well rural doesn’t have to mean like a town of 1,000 people in Nebraska. All the national parks are relatively rural, especially since they will almost certainly be less crowded than normal for the foreseeable future m. There are plenty of beach destinations that have a lower population density than NYC too. “Rural” in this sense just means not staying in the heart of a major city – there are lots of amazing vacation destinations that aren’t major cities.

            2. I lol’d at this, because I’m evaluating when I can/should travel to my sub-1000 person Nebraska home town at the moment.

            3. You’re right. I guess I have an incorrectly narrow definition of rural US which is just farmland or one stoplight towns. I totally thing of national parks as something else. I guess I just categorize beach towns, national parks and tourist destinations separate and apart from “rural.”

            4. Ha, sorry, no offense to Nebraska! I live in the rural Midwest too. It is a nice place to live but I understand why people wouldn’t be champing at the bit to vacation here.

   3. Toddlers are a wild card in a plane — I think it is a testament to their health and robustness that kids who put their hands in their mouth every d*ng minute (mine) survive planes and airports.

      I go to NYC solo for work a lot (and am from NJ, so go there as a family, but usually via Allentown’s airport, b/c other airports are so big and dealing with rental car returns is LOVELY in Allentown but not elsewhere). I will go back probably in the fall, if my kids’ school reopens then. Clients are all working remotely now, so no one to see right now and it’s too complicated for me without childcare (possibly extending into the summer if camps are closed). Definitely fall — October?

      [I’d put $ on me having some antibodies due to my travel schedule prior to this, based on all of the California studies coming out now.]

   4. I won’t have any real problem going there once things calm down…at least not more than going anywhere else. I mean, I’d have the same questions about business/fun trips to Boston, Paris, London etc. This massive rate of infections will go down eventually and it will become like any other big city (and any other plane trip).

   5. My in-laws live in NYC. We were supposed to visit them (with our toddler) next month and will go if our both state’s stay at home orders have been lifted by then (which seems doubtful). We’d probably avoid public transit and indoor public places though. I know this is a minority opinion but planes don’t scare me at all. They have way better air filtration systems than the average restaurant, grocery store, etc.

      1. The air filtration doesn’t concern me about planes, but as someone else who has kids who constantly put their fingers in their mouths, planes/trains involve a lot more touching of public surfaces than driving in your own car.

         1. Most experts seem to think surface-to-person transmission is rare, and the overwhelming majority of transmission is through droplets (like if you get sneezed on) or through particles in the air. There was a recent study out of China about an asymptomatic person who made a bunch of people sick in a restaurant and they analyzed the pattern of where they were sitting and concluded that an air conditioning air flow made them all sick. And planes have air filtration systems that would prevent that. I am also just not that worried about getting the virus myself.

            1. +1 I’m not making any decisions soon but the data seems to be trending in this direction

            2. Whatever air filtration system is on planes never seems to prevent me from catching a cold or the flu or bronchitis.

            3. That’s interesting. I don’t thin of myself as having an excellent immune system, but I travel a ton normally and don’t believe I’ve ever picked up so much as a cold on a plane. Whenever I got a flu or cold, it could always be traced to an immediate contact (most often a household member) who was sick. My husband is a teacher who gets things from his students all the time, and I get pretty much everything he gets. But planes have never been a source of infection, as far as I can tell.

            4. Cold and flu do have pretty high surface-to-person transmission though, so the air filtration won’t necessarily help there.

   6. Also following. We were supposed to go there on a family trip this spring which obviously got canceled. We have credit with American Airlines and could rebook the trip but I am not sure how I feel about going there until at least 2021.

   7. It’s a city many of us live in and don’t have the luxury of avoiding. I wouldn’t recommend traveling here for fun just like I wouldn’t recommend traveling anywhere for fun

      I’d rather be here than Georgia.

   8. I’ve been thinking about this a lot, too. A few times a year I’ll take off a Friday morning, drive to NYC from DC and be there by lunch, telework the afternoon, have Friday evening and all day Saturday to do stuff, brunch Sunday morning, and leave NYC early afternoon Sunday to head home. I find driving and paying to park the car in Brooklyn over the weekend is cheaper than the train or flying, and it only takes about 4 or 4.5 hours to drive.

      All that to say, I don’t know when I’ll be comfortable going again. So much is still up in the air. I think, initially, I would go to visit/stay with a friend and probably not go anywhere I couldn’t access by walking. I would have to know more about the measures in place in cabs before making a judgement call on that, and it’s going to be a looong time before I’m comfortable getting on the subway! I also don’t know when I’ll feel comfortable with hotels anywhere in the country.

9. To the poster yesterday about being obese and struggling with losing weight – I made a comment yesterday about having your hormones checked. You responded that you had your thyroid checked, but you didn’t mention having your hormones checked (testosterone, estrogen?) If you haven’t had that checked, you might want to get them checked – very different from your thyroid function. Someone also asked me if inability to lose weight was my only symptom and at the time I thought it was, but now I know that my low libido was also a side effect. Now that I have my testosterone where it should be, my libido has drastically increased and my husband is certainly loving that. There are different ways to treat low testosterone (cream, shots, pellets) and there are a few side-effects. But once I got my levels where they should be, the side-effects went away. Just FYI ladies.

   1. Do I even dare ask what a pellet is?

      1. Probably like Norplant, but with testosterone.

   2. I don’t think that hormones/testosterone has been checked, but likely a visit to a primary care doctor is in order once this has all settled down and I’m able to make these appointments again.

10. Anyone has experience shopping from Cynthia Rowley’s website? I made a purchase recently, but several items were missing from my order when it arrived. I called and emailed customer service, but no one ever got back to me. Their Yelp review shows that the same thing happened to multiple customers recently. I’ve disputed the charge with my credit card company, but I doubt the company will respond appropriately. Anything else I can do?

11. Hey Ladies – Macy’s is having a flash sale today only -40-70% off basics like undies, bras, lounge-wear. Some pretty good deals. Just FYI. M

12. The medical thread above has me wondering about this:

    An inlaw graduated from medical school. I had been invited to go to the graduation weekend and went. I got to go to a dinner for spouses (largely female) and they all got awards for “putting him (or her) through” — their PHT degrees, as it were. This was about 15 years ago, so not ancient history. But I felt like I had been whisked away to the 1950s. I have female friends from college who are doctors and they never mentioned this but it felt weird to watch. I know that med school is more intense that law school (BigLaw partner now; mere associate at the time) and residence is no picnic (you get to work 80+ hours/week and be poorly paid in big expensive cities, so you debt skyrockets, never mind female doctors who have kids during this time AND have to add childcare on top of all other expenses). But being a “doctor’s wife” seems to be a thing (my husband never says he is a “lawyer’s wife” sober but might after a few drinks) and this seems to be a thing. But is medicine one of those things like biglaw where it can feel very current and meritocratic and then you round the corner and you’re back in the 1950s? I feel like maybe the medical people I know could be a very nonrepresentative slice and my view into this field is wildly off base.

    1. My sister in law is starting Med school soon and the school has multiple events and resources aimed at prepping the spouse/ family members for supporting the student through. Like they have a whole guidance department for this purpose. SILs wife has already attended some kind of info session on it.

    2. I am so fascinated by this! I worked biglaw for 3/4 of DH’s med school and attended match day, but no other official event, and there was nothing like that that I knew of. Mental health issues are real for med school and residency, so if those programs HFB mentioned above offer some real advice on navigating that, I am all for it (but I’m skeptical based on what I hear about how mental health issues are generally treated in the training part of the field).

    3. Get off it. I know women who were good students, went to top 10 law schools or b schools most to get the Mrs, found the law school guy, worked 2 years max in biglaw or banking if that and now are very much the “biglaw partners wife” as they accept how their husband just had a passion for partnership so they did everything possible to make that happen including sacrificing their own career. Lol IDK if 12-18 mos counts as a career but they have the guy and the new build in Bethesda which is what they wanted. So don’t act like lawyers (and I am one) are perfect but drs have wives from the 50s.

       1. This is a gross comment. I know women who opted out/stepped back in part to advance their husband’s degree but I don’t know anyone who took on 6 figures of debt to find a husband.

          1. And I am convinced that my husband is likely a cost center. Or would be b/c his preferred toys are $$$ and if I spend extra $ it is like on a pedicure or skein of acrylic yarn.

          2. You may not know them but they exist. To put a finer point on what the poster says, the women at my top 10 school who did this didn’t necessarily know or accept this was the plan. Good students before law school and in law school; often went to law school because they didn’t know what else to do (true of guys too). Did on campus recruiting, got the biglaw job and just melted down as they realized they were very very good at school but not good at or interested in client service. Luckily law school boyfriend was doing well at his firm, put a ring on it as junior associates and they were out of there before hitting the mid level years with all kinds of excuses of supporting husbands dreams. Reality is from the 2 that I know that are close friends, there were a LOT of sleepless nights because both they and their husbands knew it was precarious on one biglaw income with tons of combined debt + no 4th year is enough of a star to be guaranteed partnership. So it is not as easy as it looks.

             1. I definitely agree they exist, but I don’t think it’s as widespread as people make it sound (or maybe as widespread as it used to be?). I went to HYS for law, graduated 15 years ago, and of my female classmates, 90%+ are still working in law or law adjacent fields. 1/4 are law school faculty, about 20% are in house or doing compliance work, 10-15% in biglaw (some partners, some still counsel) and the remainder in government/nonprofit.

             2. This is not at all what the poster said, she said “most went” “to get the Mrs” which was the part I was objecting to. I totally know people like you described but I also don’t think it’s nearly as widespread as people think. I have plenty of law school friends who have opted out of biglaw (both men and women, it’s really not for most people) but know very few who have completely stopped working. A lot have prioritized their spouse’s career (sadly usually the man’s career) but very few stay home. They just chose a less demanding lower paying job (in house, compliance, government, nonprofit).

             3. “Did on campus recruiting, got the biglaw job and just melted down as they realized they were very very good at school but not good at or interested in client service.”

                This describes about half of the women in BigLaw that I’ve met. Problematically, they do not understand women who actually enjoy working.

             4. To Anon at 1:17, I think “did on campus recruiting, go the biglaw job and just melted down as they realized they were very very good at school but not good at or interested in client service” describes a huge chunk of male associates in BigLaw as well.

                -signed, BigLaw senior associate who is constantly fighting others on their obsession with grades in recruiting

             5. 1:17 — same here. And I think you’re being generous with 1/2. I find it isn’t even biglaw, it’s midlaw etc. too. Honestly I think it’s client service. There are people who are excellent at school — straight As, law review etc. But they just are in school mode; they aren’t interested in the on the job learning which is what law is because honestly how often are you going to use Marbury v Madison IRL, nor in just getting done whatever the client needs no matter how it’s done. To be fair there are guys like this too, but I have known 1-2 guys like this who then went off to be professors and career clerks, and many many more women like this.

    4. I think the whole thing is interesting. Even though doctors have more debt, they are not remotely likely to face unemployment (coronavirus shutting down primary care practices excepted) or employment not at doctor salaries except voluntarily. Law school . . . how do they prepare people for the fact that they are losing 3 years of income and have non-discharable student debt and will likely be employed for $ that may be lower than they had before law school. I feel that the bleakness of that math is never addressed and the mental health crises that that brings with it.

       I cannot imagine how stabby doctors would be if they had to go through the rate-setting and billing and collections that lawyers with big company clients have to deal with (one verb per time entry!).

       It’s not a misery contest. It’s just that the two big learned professions have become so wildly different.

       1. Ummmm

          Lol

          What

          Have you not heard of medical billing?

          1. Medical billing is totally a thing, but it’s generally not for doctors (yes for the doctor / MBA people who negotiate stuff). They have people who handle that.

             1. yes, this. My mom has her own medical insurance billing business and it is a nightmare – but she mostly deals with the receptionists/front office staff, not the doctors themselves.

          2. Yeah, actually I have heard of it because it is its entire own occupation.

       2. Yeah, that’s a pretty poor comparison. Lawyers lose income for three years, doctors for four, and then doctors have residency making $40k on top of that for up to six or eight years. So, yeah, a lot of doctors make more, but they also sacrifice more. And not all doctors make as much as you think. I know some who barely make six figures, which is crazy. Plus there is a lot of pressure because Medicare and insurance companies can just cut your reimbursements and there’s not much you can do about it.

          1. I don’t think you realize that most lawyers also don’t make 6 figures. The profession has a bimodal distribution on salaries. Lots of lawyers fall in the 45-65k range but the average gets skewed by the small number of lawyers in biglaw making a lot of money.

             1. To be clear I’m not saying doctors don’t sacrifice, just that law is probably objectively a worse choice economically

             2. Agree with law being a worse choice economically. I pointed out to stepkid that my admin makes more $ than the average lawyer and has no law loans to pay back and has been working FT with benefits since she was 20. It crushed his dreams, or adjusted them to reality, but better he get that now as an undergrad vs after 3 years of law school. Lawyer life =/= law school brochure life.

             3. I totally get that a lot of lawyers don’t make six figures, but I’m saying they dind’t give up as much as the doctors did to get there. My husband is a doctor, and he literally gave up his twenties. Like had very little fun for a whole decade, and a decade that is supposed to be when you have all the fun.

    5. My BIL is a doctor and my sister has said, with a straight face, no doubt from BIL, that patients are more comfortable when doctors call patients by their first name, but that patients should call doctors “Dr. Whatever.” Um, no. I don’t want anyone trying to feign familiarity with me when I am nekkid under a backless paper gown. I hope that med schools aren’t teaching that and that my BIL is just an idiot.

       1. I think all of my doctors have called by my first name. I didn’t realize it was weird – I would feel uncomfortable if my gyno called me “ms last name.”

    6. I think it is all in how it is done. I think it is fair to recognize the sacrifices spouses make in certain professions. Medical school and the crazy hours that is residency would be one of those. Another would be military and first responders that work crazy hours and put themselves in danger and often have to go through long academies and trainings away from home. I thanked a friend once for HER service as a military wife that had to move every few years and raise her kids alone while her husband was deployed. She cried. She said she feels so unappreciated by most people and it is all about his sacrifices and not hers.

       Likewise, being in big law your spouse gets less of your time than a 9-5 and I think it would be great if more places acknowledged that.

    7. I went to b school and my husband went to med school. Of the two, business school was the one stuck in the 1950s, despite the fact that I went to one of the schools with the highest female enrollment. There was a very active spouses group and almost everything they planned was in the middle of the day and geared around typically feminine activities. Formals and parties were often on Fridays rather than Saturdays which prevented the remote SOs from joining, largely impacting the female students who disproportionately were in long term relationships for those two years. A lot of the verbiage from the spouses was similar to the “Putting Him Through” message as well, to the point of being pretty disgusting to hear. In contrast, the med school programs were much more gender aware and much more inclusive towards and aware of dual career relationships. That has continued to be true in the jobs we’ve held since. Men in my field are much more likely to be married to homemakers than the other male doctors my husband works with (in both fields, our female colleagues are pretty much all dual career couples).

       That being said, I do occasionally get “doctor’s wife” comments clearly intended to be compliments, but these are always from people in their 60s or older, who I guess just haven’t thought through the fairly obvious fact that my career is far more lucrative than my husband’s…

    8. My SIL is a doctor. She’s a resident now and starting her fellowship next year. She met her husband while she was in medical school. From my observation, the last 2 years of medical school and residency requirements are very difficult for the student or resident to achieve any kind of work/life balance. The expectations have not changed much since the 1950s. My SIL had her daughter during her first year of residency, and she got no maternity leave–just used her 4 weeks of vacation for the year and was back at work. If she’d taken more than that, paid or unpaid, she would not have met training requirements and would have had to repeat her first year of residency. Each year, she rotates at several different clinics in 4-5 different cities, up to 3 hours away, so for several months of the year, she’s staying in an apartment during the week while her husband and daughter are home. She works hard and is on call all the time. When she’s not working, she’s studying for boards.

       Her husband works full-time but has a pretty flexible job. I think he makes between $80K and $100K. I would guess he does 90% of the childcare and 90% of the housework. He also handles all family logistics or what we might call “emotional labor”–scheduling, responding to texts, getting backup childcare, anything organizational. If gender roles were reversed, it would absolutely look like the 1950s. And when she finishes her fellowship, he deserves a dinner. More to the point, when she finishes fellowship and is earning $250K or more, I would not be at all surprised if he quits his job. They’ll still be making at least $100K more than they are now. I know they’re planning to have another baby–she told me they were going to TTC during her fellowship but are reconsidering due to COVID-19.

    9. My spouse graduated med school 30 years ago and it was pretty evenly split between men and women. I didn’t feel any difference between women who supported their husbands going through med school and men who supported their wives going through med school. (30 years ago, there were fewer “open” same-sex couples and I actually don’t remember any, but that may just be faulty memory.) I think in my MIL’s generation “being a doctor’s wife” had some cachet, but I have never felt it at all. He has cachet from being married to me :)

13. Of the many things I’ve noticed about working from home, it has dawned on me that my feet haven’t hurt. At all. I struggle so much with dress shoes of every kind; nothing dressy is kind for long to my long, bony duck feet. I’ve been in running shoes for weeks and exercising a ton, and I feel better than I ever do walking around my office building in dress shoes. This whole WFH situation confirmed how much I dislike dressing up. I’m not walking around my house in sloppy clothes, but I am a casual, practical person and am enjoying actually dressing for who I am.

    1. Good for you.

       By contrast, I might wear a ball gown and tiara to sit in my mostly empty office when they finally let me back in. I’m so sick of casual.

       1. Same. I’m dying to put on a pretty dress and lipstick and go to a restaurant for dinner.

          1. Yes. I’ve been walking into my closet and longingly petting my pretty sheath dresses and heels. I put on lipstick just to come downstairs and do laundry one day last week because I am just so sick of always feeling like a mom who happens to fit in some work in between school. My pretty pretty work/date night clothes are just for ME, not mom me, not parent me.

             1. Yes! My work clothes and date night clothes are for ME!! I miss having time to feel like an independent person out in the world.
                I bought such a pretty Alice and Olivia dress on sale in the winter, perfect for a lovely Spring or Summer date night somewhere, and I really hope I’ll get to wear it this year.

          2. I told my husband the first thing we are doing when restaurants we open where we live is go to our favorite fancy-schmancy place for date night. I am already planning my outfit in my head.

       2. Same. I’ve been looking longingly at my cute sheath dresses, pencil skirts, cardigans and blazers. And my houndstooth pumps. Maybe my boyfriend and I should dress up for a nice dinner at home, just so I have an excuse to put on a pretty dress.

       3. Wish I worked where you did because we could have lunch. I don’t have tiaras, but the nice dresses, shoes, and jewelry will come out!

       4. Same, girl. Same.

       5. Haha this is essentially what I am doing: Dressing up every day to come and sit in my empty office.

          1. I thought about going casual today (it’s gotten hot all of a sudden) and I just couldn’t bring myself to do it.

       6. I’m now really tempted to wear my wedding dress to the grocery store…..

    2. My feet hurt and I’m convinced it is from standing while cooking (which I’m now doing 2x/day vs 1x/day).

       1. Same! Not to mention all the extra cleaning that goes with the extra cooking.

          1. We’ve gone through some stages in this regard. At first with all the nonstop cooking and baking, the kitchen got pretty cluttered and, yes, kinda dirty. Then a week or so ago I got home early and Hubby was still at his office and I went on a tear and cleaned and put everything away and now it looks more like an operating room. Hopefully that will last…

       2. I bought one of those padded chef mats from Costco and it makes standing on my ceramic tile kitchen floor much more pleasant.

    3. I’m in the same boat. I love being able to wear Nike tempo shorts (10 years old and counting – man these things are durable) and T-shirts to work. I feel like myself and like I can get things done better when I’m more comfortable. I am, however, fantasizing about buying new hiking boots in the hope I can go backpacking as planned this summer…

    4. I also have long bony low-profile feet (maybe not duck feet? Idk? I have high arches and low insteps, there’s just not much foot!) and I feel you! For smart shoes I almost exclusively go to Clarks. I walk straight past their ‘comfort’ shoes and go for the smart styles, mostly flat or with a half inch heel. Usually quite mannish styles on the basis that if men can wear them, so can I? I don’t know that anyone in a boardroom environment has ever noticed my feet but I feel comfortable in them and can stand my ground when presenting (quite literally!)

    5. Has anyone else noticed they “carry” their stress in their feet? Like as opposed to neck or back tension. I’ve noticed my feet have been hurting like crazy, and it seems to be related to stress. When this is over all I want is a foot massage.

       1. We have a foot massage ball, got ours from Gaiam I think. It’s a bumpy, hard plastic ball — highly recommend. Just thought I’d mention it because I didn’t even know they existed until I was looking for foot pain relief.

14. I recently started receiving unsolicited paper catalogs from brands like the Fold, Rothy’s, etc. and I’d like it to stop. While I like their products and have purchased from them in the past, I haaaaaaaate receiving paper mail. It’s so wasteful and I promptly drop everything in the recycling bin next to my mail room. Is there any way to opt out of this kind of stuff?

    1. The Direct Marketing Association has a website you can register for for a small fee that allows you to choose which catalogs to unsubscribe from and I think unsubscribe from all. It takes a month or two if I remember correctly but it is very effective in terms of cutting out this stuff.

       1. This is good to know, and I’m going to do this. I feel bad our mailworkers are putting themselves at risk delivering mail and it’s mostly catalogues I put straight in the recycling bin!!!

       2. And if that doesn’t work, you can always call the number on the back of the catalog and ask to be taken off their mailing list.

    2. I got one from Rothy’s the other day. That one particularly annoyed me given their constant bragging about sustainability.

15. Can anyone recommend a BB or CC cream or tinted moisturizer that gives a bit of color but doesn’t look made-up? I loved Bobbi Brown’s CC cream and she had the audactity to discontinue it.

    1. I used to use Bobbi Brown CC too, but switched to Dr Jart premium BB cream. I also like Coola Rossiliance for a lighter look.

    2. I like NARS oil-free tinted moisturizer. Laura Mercier’s wasn’t a fit for me.

       1. +1.

    3. Another plug for Coola, but for the unscented matte tint mineral sunscreen. I’m pretty pale, and I think it makes me look like me (I can still see my freckles) but slightly evened out.

    4. Drugstore – the Maybelline BB does a pretty good job. I’m not wasting $$$ makeup on days at home.

    5. I use The Ordinary Serum Foundation. It provides just enough coverage without looking like I am wearing make-up. It’s also cheap so if you hate it, not a huge loss.

    6. I have used Chanel’s CC cream and really love it!

16. Has anyone done this?

    I’d love to do it b/c I’m so curious to know.

    1. According to Doctor Mike, a lot of the tests out there aren’t very accurate right now. We also don’t know how many antibodies you’d need in order to be considered immune, so even if you get the test that tell you how many you have, that doesn’t really do any good. Simply put, it’s not worth it right now.

       1. But they are accepting plasma donations from people who test positive in some places. For that purpose, it’s worth it.

          1. They do, but it’s seen as an experimental treatment. As far as I know, it’s not proven that plasma donations help patients.

             1. There are some decent studies out of China that it helps and limited (basically anecdotal) evidence from EU and US. It also has basically no downside, unlike other experimental treatments. Personally, I would opt for that over hydroxychloroquine if I were hospitalized. Remdesivir appears to be the best, but isn’t widely available.

       2. Who tf is doctor mike?

          1. Pence?

          2. Dr Oz, but more telegenic.

             1. I’m cool with antibody testing, but disappointed that these kinds of Drs have an audience.

                I will just put some cinnamon on it but avoid petroleum jelly at all costs (because dr oz recs cinnamon for everything & thinks we should be worried about Vaseline because it’s a byproduct of fuel).

    2. It’s not available in my area yet but I want to do it as soon as I can. My kid (in daycare at the time) and I had a mild version of the symptoms in late February with a 5-6 day incubation time (which is too long to be cold or flu). I thought it couldn’t be Covid because the first confirmed case in my state was in mid March. But they just announced yesterday that there was actually a case in my county in early February! So I now think the odds I had it are at least like 10%. Since I was symptomatic (albeit mildly) I can safely assume I’m immune if I have antibodies. If my whole family has antibodies, I would be thrilled to be able to travel again as soon as it’s legal.

       1. I flew on planes basically all of February and assumed I’d wait until mid-March (still taking my temp every day). I am pretty willing to believe I’ve been exposed (but get that it’s unclear what the value of that is, except for antibody researchers).

          IIRC, smallpox survivors were used to treat the sick. I wonder if we would eventually be useful as volunteers (ditto all those college kids partying over spring break who now seem to have not gotten sick despite the passage of time). I certainly would.

          1. Yes they are doing that now. It’s called convalescent plasma and people who know they’ve survived Covid are already giving donations that are being used to treat the severely ill.

             1. To be exact, they are trying this out. It is not clear as of yet whether it is a viable treatment. Convalescent plasma has been useful in some illnesses, but not in all cases. IIRC, it doesn’t work for the original SARS, for example. Nevertheless, many hospitals are giving it a try, and so far, they seem to at least not be harmful.

             2. Right. I said that they’re giving it as a treatment, not that it’s proven to work. It’s one of the best treatments we have though, considering other drugs have worse side effects and limited availability, and there are slowly studies coming out that it is effective. My understanding Is that almost every major hospital in the US is now doing it, or at least soliciting plasma donations.

                Scientifically, you would expect convalescent plasma to be most effective if given early in the disease or even prophylactically, so even if it has limited efficacy in severely ill patients that doesn’t necessarily imply it’s a junk treatment that’s not effective against this virus. It was not a cure or anything but it was shown to be more effective than nothing against the original SARS.

       2. The National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease is launching a study to detect COVID antibodies in the general population. You can read more and sign up at the link.

          https://www.niaid.nih.gov/news-events/nih-begins-study-quantify-undetected-cases-coronavirus-infection

    3. I’m doing it on Friday. Will report back.

       1. Thanks!

          Can you share how you are getting tested? Doctor? Testing site? Study? I hope not unwelcome news of exposure.

          1. If you had exposure, you would get a Covid test, not an antibody test.

          2. My doctor is making it available. Both my husband and I had odd symptoms in early/late February (his two weeks after mine, hmmm) so we thought it would be interesting to check. We go to the office at the appointed time and they stick us and take our blood through the window.

             1. I read an article recently, and now I can’t find it, that basically said the crud you had in February was extremely unlikely to have been COVID, but I’m very curious how your test will turn out! I hope accurate antibody tests are widespread soon.

             2. I’m expecting it to be negative but you never know. There have been press reports that the first deaths in So Cal were in late January, so…

             3. Anon at 2:19 I read that previously but now the data from New York today seems to suggest that COVID was here much much earlier than we thought, which isn’t surprising especially in New York which has a ton of international travelers in and out each day. It’s pretty hard to imagine that there weren’t some cases in New York in January or possibly even December.

             4. Until just a few days ago the prevailing wisdom was indeed that it wasn’t anywhere in the US until January and wasn’t anywhere outside of Washington state until February at the earliest. But a whole bunch of states have recently announced cases and even deaths more than a month before their first previously confirmed case. How they are suddenly finding this out I have no idea (autopsies on people who died a few months ago??)

    4. My husband and I did the tests at a private local lab for $75 each (because I am still required to go to work every day and we were curious). I have the antibodies and he doesn’t — which seems incredibly unlikely since we live in tight quarters and are together a lot now that he is WFH and therefore always home. Neither of us have had any symptoms. I do not intend to ease up at all on staying home whenever possible and using masks in public. I don’t trust the test results and I don’t think we know enough about the immunity aspect.

17. As if being home with 3 kinds under 7 and 2 adults working full time and potty training the toddler weren’t enough…I am nearly positive I have poison ivy. But I’ve never had it before. I did yard work the weekend of 4/7 near what is probably poison ivy. On Monday 4/13, I got an itchy spot. It got bigger and itchier, but benedryl and rx strength hydrocortisone (that we have from the last time DH going poison ivy…) helped. It has been trending better. I have not been outside or near yard work since that first time- April 7th. Last night, I got a similarly itchy patch on my thigh. Any time I’ve been outside in the past 6 months I’ve been wearing long pants. There is no way my thigh could have brushed against poison ivy! From what I’ve read, it can’t spread except by contact with the actual chemical itself.

    Any idea what’s going on? I was thinking MAYBE I put on pants that went through the wash having been worn for yardwork and the chemical hadn’t washed off, but google says it washes off with soap and water. I haven’t used gloves or touched anything I can think of that might have poison ivy on it and most definitely not while wearing shorts!

    1. Doesn’t sound like poison ivy if it’s spreading that way…. could be hives, or shingles (depending on where the other patches are), or some other allergic reaction.

    2. Poison ivy does not take a long time to show up where you got it – more like overnight to a day or so. This sounds like something else.

    3. Eczema?

    4. I got something similar and took a course of prednisone.

    5. could it be impetigo?

    6. Sounds like eczema to me. It is worsened by stress. Hydrocortisone cream works but it may recur. Try drinking a ton of water and managing stress. I had it for a period of 2 years (toddler, long commute, stressful job) and managed it ok, but it cleared up after that (kid got easier, job change to less stressful with short car drive commute).

18. Need some virtual escapes, ladies? Here’s a few virtual tours — national parks, aquariums, and some interesting places (the White House, the Paris Catacombs, Winchester Mystery House, etc.) to either cure or pique your shelter-at-home wanderlust….

    If anyone’s looking for me, I’ll be in Alaska. Or the Catacombs. Or at a wine tasting…. :)

    Enjoy, wonderful ladies!

    https://www.bhg.com/syndication/virtual-national-parks-tours/?did=515671-20200422&cmp=hac_042220&utm_campaign=home-holidays-and-celebrations_newsletter&utm_source=bhg.com&utm_medium=email&utm_content=042220&cid=515671&mid=32692672377

    https://www.bhg.com/news/costco-healthcare-workers-coronavirus/?did=515671-20200422&cmp=hac_042220&utm_campaign=home-holidays-and-celebrations_newsletter&utm_source=bhg.com&utm_medium=email&utm_content=042220&cid=515671&mid=32692672377

    https://www.realsimple.com/work-life/entertainment/arts-culture/best-virtual-tours?did=515660-20200422&utm_campaign=rs-weekly-tips_newsletter&utm_source=realsimple.com&utm_medium=email&utm_content=042220&cid=515660&mid=32677541770

    1. Ignore the Costco link — two stories on the page and the wrong one got picked up when I copied/pasted. The correct link (for zoos/aquariums) is farther down the thread.

    2. Thank you!!!

    3. https://artsandculture.google.com
       has tons of museums, some high resolution photos of artwork, and when you click the little streetview yellow person, you can walk through the actual museums. I used the Musee D’Orsay streetview to look at some statues and Van Gogh paintings when I did the ‘Trip to Paris’.

19. For those of you that work in education- or have older kids- is it at all appropriate for me to send kudos to my kids’ teachers? And if so, is it better (or way out of line) to copy the principal?

    I’ve managed staff for almost two decades. When I thank someone and want to make sure it goes in their file, I copy their boss. Does it work like that at schools, too? My daughter (7) has a few teachers that are going above and beyond to make learning happen in these crazy times. I want to make sure I can recognize the teachers without it looking like I am trying to do anything to curry favor.

    I am thinking of doing the following– let me know if this is silly or inappropriate.

    – To the school wide math coach, sending a note this week sharing how excited/happy my kid is about math, and how much she looks forward to the new unit that comes out each week. It’s comical how much she likes math these days and it’s 100% because they make it fun/easy/achievable/cool (chess club is the most popular club at school). She told me today “the night before the new math work comes out feels like christmas eve.” (WHO IS THIS KID?)
    – at the end of year, maybe even over the summer, emailing the principal letting her know what a killer job I thought the K teacher did during the pandemic. At this point, grades will be in so hopefully it isn’t taken the wrong way.

    Thoughts?

    1. Yes, I am a school counselor and it would be 100% appropriate and appreciated to send that note to the teacher and cc the principal.

       1. I think it would be especially appreciated right now, as educators and districts are truly in unchartered territory and many are balancing their own childcare while instructing remotely.

    2. I’m in HR for a public school district. I can 100% say that teachers and their principals would love this. Please do.

    3. I’m not a teacher but volunteer at our local elementary school. Teachers would be very appreciative of this, and it’s not at all inappropriate.

    4. no clue, but I’m curious about the same thing

    5. I can’t imagine this would be taken as “currying favor” rather than the honest appreciation it is! (Plus, it’s not like a math teacher can “go easy” on a kid when grading, as math is wonderfully objective at that age – either they got the right answer or they didn’t.)

    6. I’m a teacher. Yes, please do this! It is definitely noticed and so appreciated!

    7. My husband is a teacher. He would absolutely appreciate this. Particularly given your child’s young age, I don’t think currying favor would not be a major concern. Grades just are not that important at age 7.

    8. I think this is a lovely idea! Not an educator, but I once did this for a daycare teacher who went above and beyond. I got a really nice note back from her supervisor telling me how it made the teacher’s day, so obviously the supervisor noted it too.

    9. If it’s wrong, I don’t want to be right.

    10. Update: I sent the note to the math coach and she got back to me saying how much it meant to her, and she’s going to share it with the greater district math team (they all collaborate on the weekly units now). Worst case I’ve just fast-tracked my 1st grader to being a mathlete ;)

20. Sorry, about the wrong link for the aquarium tours…. It went to link to the next story down on that page for me…. THIS should be the correct link:

    https://www.bhg.com/news/zoos-aquariums-videos-coronavirus/

    1. Original post is in mod…. I posted links to some cool virtual tours…. Hopefully it comes up soon!

21. For those of you who do intuitive eating but pack a lunch (assuming that at some point we’ll be back in the office), what do you do to cut yourself off from eating when you’re actually done? I’m very much an if-it’s-there-I’m-eating-it sort of person, and I’m interested in how you do it. I’m eating less now that I’m making every meal, but that doesn’t sync with having to pack a lunch.

    1. I tend to eat the same amount every day (I pack things like sandwiches or pre-made salads from the store) so I haven’t really had that problem. I pack the amount that I know I’ll want to eat. Sometimes I might overshoot it a little bit (or undershoot), but it’s usually not a big deal and I don’t feel totally stuffed or starving. Can you aim for the average that you think you’ll need and see how that works out?

       1. Basically, same. I tend to make a lot of the same types of recipes – usually some kind of non lettuce based “salad” with a bunch of grains, vegetables, protein, and fat all tossed in a bowl. I have tupperware containers that hold a certain amount and at this point I know that amount should fill me up for lunch most days, so that’s what I pack.

    2. I do best at cutting myself off when I’m actually physically hungry before I begin eating. Then it’s a matter of eating more slowly and paying attention to what’s happening in my body. This is, of course, harder to do when you’re eating at your desk and/or distracted by work.

       If I’m not hungry when I start eating, there’s no real signal except for portion size, to tell me to stop. Simple answer is: pack a small lunch.

    3. I know this won’t sound helpful, but I decided I am no longer an “if it’s there I will eat it” person but rather an “I stop eating when I am 80% full” person. Cold turkey. (It’s at this point perhaps a bit compulsive, as I have, when eating alone, spit out food upon realizing i just don’t want one more bite.) And believe me, I was very.much a person who put too much on a plate and then ate all of it no matter what until last year. I prepare smaller portions now, know and accept and expect that food will be left on a plate and maybe discarded, eat more slowly, and pay a lot of attention to how I am feeling in the process. I also prepare more healthful foods and generally eat the most nutritious parts of the meal first (unless it’s all about combining flavors– I am still a foodie!). I also find exercise helps.me moderate the intake volume and crave more healthful foods but I don’t know at all if that is a mindset/ psychological thing or a metabolic thing.

    4. I pack less lunch than need and rely on a back up snack that I only enjoy if I’m actually hungry. For example, you won’t catch me eating raw unsalted almonds if I’m not hungry, but they’re totally palatable if I am.

    5. Thanks for the replies! I think I’m going to have to start eating away from my desk and/or actually focus on what I’m eating. WFH has really helped me not snack (I just don’t get the urge), eat smaller amounts, and cut down on sugar/caffeine, and I’m hoping to keep at least some of these habits when life edges back to normal.

22. My law firm has a referral bonus program for attorney hiring. You fill out a form and then get paid 50% of the bonus when the hire has been there for 6 months, 50% after 1 year. I referred a few people in 2019 and never filled out the forms because I was so busy and then when I remembered I felt like it was too late? Would it be really weird if I did it now? None of my referrals have been there for 1 year, but they have been there over 6 months.

    1. Do it, man.

    2. I think you can try but I wouldn’t be surprised if you don’t get anything given the amount of time that has passed, particularly if your firm is struggling financially. If your firm has had layoffs, furloughs or salary reductions/suspension of partner draws, I personally wouldn’t submit this.

       1. We are not struggling yet but things could change (somewhat countercyclical practice, but we need the court’s to be open to generate $)

23. IDK if this has been raised before as I can’t read daily anymore but two questions. How will you ladies handle networking going forward if you’re seeking a new job. While everything is shut now, I can’t imagine that even 3 or 6 months from now, inviting a stranger/someone you met at a conference 2 years ago to coffee will be cool. Would you just ask for a call?

    More important question — if you are higher risk (or maybe share a home with a higher risk person), would that “prevent” you from switching jobs in a few months — say anytime between July and next spring? I’m in a situation where I really do not like my job substantively but I will give them credit — they shut it down early, aren’t rushing the return, and it’s not the type of place where you’d be pressured to do something risky. I see value in that as I know from friends that there are managing partners etc out there eye rolling and the day the state opens you’re back or else watch out for a lay-off. So I see value in how my employer is doing this esp as someone who is “only” 40 but has another condition that adds risk. But the thought of doing what I do for 2+ more years (or even 6 more months) because it’s safe makes me want to cry. Would you pursue another opportunity if you could get it (big if given the economy)? Would you ask said opportunity how they handle covid/telework? Basically WWYD.

    1. On your first, I think just ask for a call or send a note. Weirdly, I think it’s less awkward to reach out to loose connections right now because everyone is so socially starved, you’re more likely to get a response. It also doesn’t feel forced if you get a “hey – saw, this and thought of you, crazy times we’re living in” right now (not that it’s normally strange to do that to begin with). I think people are more likely to respond to those types of emails right now because it’s nice to talk to someone who isn’t your roommate/spouse/whoever you’re SAH-ing with.

24. I bought eyebrow razors based on comments here. I liked them the first time I used them but after about a day, I had “eyebrow stubble.” (I have very thick, dark hair and very pale skin so unfortunately stubble is very visible.) For people who use eyebrow razors, do you shave every day? It’s hard for me to use the razors on stubble/very short hair because it requires a lot more finesse than shaving your legs.

    1. To be honest, I don’t really used them for the thick, dark hairs (I tweeze those), but use it for the fine hair that you don’t notice till it grows out a bit…

       1. Same here.

       2. Hmm ok I’m not even sure I have any hairs like that. I think all the hairs on my body are thick and dark except for the peach fuzz on my cheeks. :) Thanks tho.

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