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Updated: Mar 29, 2021 280 Comments · by

Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Lloyd Easy Layered Jacket

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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If you’re tired of the basic black blazer that you’ve been keeping on hand for videoconferences, this slightly cropped jacket from BCBG might be a welcome wardrobe addition. I love the asymmetrical cut and origami pleats.

Blazers that hit at the natural waistline, like this one, are my favorites for pairing with dresses. I would mix up the colors and textures and wear this with a tweed or brightly-colored A-line dress. It would also look great on the weekend paired with some high-waisted jeans.

The jacket is $228 at BCBG Max Azria and comes in sizes XXS–XL.

This open-front blazer from Estelle is on sale for $111 at Nordstrom and is available in plus sizes (lucky sizes only, alas); this Calvin Klein blazer comes in sizes 0–16 and is on sale at Macy's for $74.89.

Sales of note for 8.30.24

  • Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
  • Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
  • Boden – 20% off
  • Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
  • Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
  • J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
  • J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
  • Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
  • Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
  • M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
  • Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
  • White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale

Sales of note for 8.30.24

  • Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
  • Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
  • Boden – 20% off
  • Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
  • Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
  • J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
  • J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
  • Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
  • Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
  • M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
  • Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
  • White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale

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About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Cb

    My UK citizenship got approved today! Now I just need to sing a funny song or pledge allegiance to the queen or something and it’s official.

  2. Annie

    What would your ideal day off be?

    I feel like I need a day off from work, and I can and will take it, but I also want to actually feel refreshed after it! I feel like I don’t always feel refreshed after the weekend, how are some staycation days doing to do that.

    • Cat

      Outdoors as much as possible. Dream world – crisp morning bike ride along the river, leisurely brunch on a sunny patio, walk around gardens in bloom, etc.

    • Anonymous

      I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if you want a staycation to actually feel relaxing, you have to do something interesting and fun and not just putter, do chores, or watch Netflix. Instead you should go take a surfing lesson or go rock climbing or take a painting class or run a half marathon or read a great novel in the park or anything out of the ordinary that will be a little bit memorable, a lot of fun, and ideally include a little risk-taking. Perhaps counterintuitively, having an active rest day is so much more restorative than a couch day.

      • Jeffiner

        This. My husband wants to just lay around, but that’s a recipe for ending up feeling like a slug at the end. We did a staycation for spring break, and while there was plenty of time to “do nothing” we also made plans to work in the garden, grill dinner outside at least 3 times, go for a hike, and go to the drive-in movies. We had such a great time, by Thursday we had the energy and enthusiasm to build a hanging daybed for our back porch.

    • No Face

      The weather is good right now, so I would take a good, long morning walk through the botanical gardens, then get takeout and eat while reading a book in my yard.

    • NYNY

      In the before times, I would have said my ideal day off had a nice chunk of unhurried time to myself, or time with my husband with no scheduled commitments weighing on us. But there has been *a lot* of that in the past year, so now the thing that refreshes me is an opportunity to safely socialize with friends. I had drinks last week with two friends, all of us fully vaccinated, and we still chose to do outdoors instead of indoors because the variants are hitting NYC hard. It was incredible. Such a normal thing to do before March 2020, and it felt life-changing in March 2021.

    • Clementine

      One of the best days off I can remember was me waking up, having a good cup of coffee and doing some (necessary but not annoying) errands. After that, I hopped on my bike and rode about 7 miles up a nice route to a cute little downtown with a great independent bookstore. I walked in the shop and asked someone for ‘The literary equivalent of a white wine spritzer’.

      I then took that book and went down to a restaurant with a big deck that overlooks the river and ordered a glass of white wine with ice cubes – with no shame and no judgement – and got my favorite appetizer as lunch. I lingered and had an iced tea, then tipped very generously (I recognize I sat there a while). I read through my whole meal, then biked back home. I got home and (remember, this was the before times)I think I might have also met a friend for a pedicure. At this point, my evening devolved into kids and bedtimes and all that, but it still sticks in my mind as one of the best days off I’ve taken.

    • Anon

      Bike ride on my favorite trail, having a drink in the park, getting a pedicure/massage, reading a book, meeting a friend for drinks

    • IL

      What’s working for me now that I have a car – drive to someplace that feels different: beach, waterfall, ferry ride, mill overlooking a river. Sit by the water, feel the humidity, hear the sounds. Don’t take any pictures or browse on my phone or read anything – just sit there and observe until I’m chilled to the bone.

      Then grab a hot coffee drink and drive home!

    • Allie

      My favorite thing to do is buy the actual physical paper (so I’m not tempted by apps on my phone) and sit and drink coffee outdoors somewhere and read the paper. Also, I find eating sushi for lunch alone to be very restful.

    • NY CPA

      Long walk, reading a book in the park, baking something, cook a great dinner, and end with a good movie

    • Marie

      Ohhhh man. Pregnancy brain must be real. I read this and was about to respond before I saw the other comments, “My ideal day off would be Wednesday or Thursday. You can get a break from the chaos of the work week and come back to work feeling so much closer to the weekend.”

      I feel like Cheryl from Ms. Congeniality (Q: Describe your perfect date. A: April 25th because it’s not too hot and not too cold. All you need is a light sweater.).

      • Curious

        Love this so much. And hard agree on Wednesday or Thursday as a fellow pregnant woman.

    • anon

      I took a Friday off last fall after finishing two big work projects. I’m in New Orleans, so I took a stroll through the French Quarter and had brunch in a beautiful courtyard restaurant. Then I drove to City Park, walked around the botanical garden, and sat on the bench swing under the oak trees in the garden (I’d always wanted to do that, but other people get their first on weekends).

    • CountC

      Winning the lottery so I could quit my job.

      But really, I will let you know when I figure it out …

  3. Frances Valentine

    Does anyone have any experience with this brand? It seems new. The stuff is lovely but very very pricey. And maybe a little too Palm Beachy, Lilly Pulitzer for me… but maybe only a little too.

    • Cat

      Frances Valentine is the rebirth of Kate Spade (IIRC the woman Kate Spade is no longer affiliated with the brand Kate Spade).

      • Cat

        omg – of course she’s no longer with either company any more. I had totally forgotten about her death.

        • Anon

          But you are correct that before her death she no longer was involved with Kate Spade the brand.

    • Lilau

      Sigh…I got excited by the description. Kate spade was playful but polished. This reads less sophisticated, more kindergarten art teacher to me but maybe it’s just my aging perspective on fashion?

      • Cat

        I like a handful of the pieces that are more subdued. The Circle slides (tortoise) look lovely. But most of the pieces are a little too “Look At Me Being Bright And Fun And Quirky” for my taste.

    • Anonymous

      I have a purse and tote; they are really well made, but a bit too casual for my work, so they are core leisure travel and weekend pieces.

  4. Anon

    I am getting a ton of swimwear catalogs and all seem to feature real life models, but they all seem to have this sort of job description “Lilia, San Diego, Aura Finder and Surfing Instructor” and the person is lovely, but has the sort of body fat % that I’d need a parasite to achieve (while also looking fit and yet a bit curvy). And there are plus-size models, but they are still models. Is it too much to ask to see a swimsuit on a late-30s office worker? Or is the world not really ready for that?

    I love that Rent the Runway lets people show pictures of themselves in the clothes (and if the item fits, it looks good to me regardless of the wearer’s size). Maybe there is no analog of this for people posing in pool attire? [Other than influencers?]

    • Anonymous

      I have been using Rent the Runway for a while and I love the photo element. It also makes it really easy to figure out what will look good on me/how to size items appropriately.

    • Cb

      Perhaps paradoxically, I’m unfussed with how flattering swimsuits are on me, as long as everything is covered. I’m not posing, standing in front of an audience etc, am unlikely to be photographed. I’m in and out of the water, building sandcastles with my kid, etc.

      • Blueberries

        Same. I got used to wearing a two piece swimsuit while pregnant (to accommodated my belly), then breastfeeding (to accommodate baby), and have just continued after.

        I wear a swimsuit either to play with my kids in the pool or exercise, and therefore swimsuits are just practical clothing for me. I might feel differently if I went to the pool to hang with friends.

    • Anonymous

      Bravissimo has customer posted images, both swimwear and bras.
      Look for #BRAVISSIMOGIRLSCAN.

    • Anonymous

      I would appreciate that as well. It’s hard to picture what the item might look like on my body type and it would be great to see some “regular” people wearing suits.

      • Anon

        I’m flat-chested and very hippy so bottoms always fit weird, so it would be helpful to know that “this rashguard will never work for you” and this bottom will hit you in a weird spot (or is so high-waisted it will likely roll down b/c I have no torso at all). I just hate mail-order roulette and in my city the only in-store suits are at Target and Old Navy, so likely aiming for teens / younger adults vs an old battle axe like me.

        • Anonymous

          There is no way that brands could ever show their clothes on a wide enough range of body types to enable every consumer to predict how the clothes will look on their own body. I am 5’6″ and size 0-2 with a straight figure, long torso, and short legs. Clothes look much different on me than they look on a 5’6″ size 0-2 person with an hourglass figure and a regular torso length. How many 5’6″ models do you want the brand to photograph in every item?

    • Anon

      No brand is ever going to want their products displayed in any way other than at their absolute most flattering, it just doesn’t meet their goals.

      • Happy

        I obviously can’t brag about this in real life. But I’ve been having a weird time with depression / ADHD and this morning I woke up on time, cleaned the stove, did the dishes, and packed half a suitcase (need to pack 2 by the weekend)

        • Anon

          That’s awesome. I struggle with the same and I totally understand what an accomplishment this is!

      • pugsnbourbon

        Eh, I think that’s changing, slowly. More brands are coming around to the idea that flattering =/ makes you look as thin as possible. I’m seeing clothes modeled this way on Aerie and Target, so even the larger brands are changing.

        • AnonATL

          I love how aerie and target both show a variety of body types and less retouched photos. I remember walking past the target swim section a couple years ago and remarking to my husband that it was nice to see models with cellulite on the displays.

    • Anonymous

      Modeling is a job. I love seeing plus size models. I am plus size. In no way do I need to see an actual plus size lawyer in a bathing suit ad just like I don’t need to see a size 2 lawyer in an ad.

      If you’re not looking just to complain Caralyn Mirand Koch has great bathing suit try ons on Instagram. But she is a model.

      • Anon

        It might work — my issue is that I’ve got a lot of body that is below the bathing suit bottom that sometimes I like a skirted bottom for and sometimes not. The trend for more cheek-showing bottoms is not helping in this regard. Also, if I can see how it looks, sometimes bottoms that cover a size 2 model’s front come up really low on me despite being labeled “mid-rise” — any lower and I’d need to wax!

        • Anonymous

          Wait do you really not wax on or other hair removal before you don a bathing suit?

          • Anonymous

            Not that poster but I only shave a smidge off the sides. I never remove anything off the top because I prefer not to wear bottoms that low. Which I think is what she’s getting at.

          • pugsnbourbon

            I assume not everyone was #blessed with my kudzu-like situation. Just because I’d want to do some landscaping doesn’t mean everyone would.

          • Bonnie Kate

            I think it’s great if you don’t have to wax or shave, but I’m a small size (2-4) and always have to shave prior to wearing any regular swimsuit bottom that wouldn’t be boy shorts or a skirted bottom. Just putting it out there because I don’t think this is a size thing, it’s a reality of swimsuit thing?

          • Anon

            I think that sides are normal but some items dip so low that top line hair removal or trimming may be needed. Not for me (if that low in front, risk of coin slot in the back).

          • Anon

            I don’t. One of my few “perfect” features is my small, very clearly defined triangle, and I am not messing with perfection!

    • Ribena

      Adidas have started showing photos of a number of items on cusp/plus size models – I don’t know if they do it for everything but I noticed (and appreciated) it when shopping the Peloton collection.

    • Anon

      Would love to see a swimsuit model with a FUPA because mine is a primary consideration when choosing swimwear! Even the plus size models have perfectly flat stomachs.

      • Anon

        This isn’t about swimsuits but you may like some of the current J-Crew factory line for pants and shorts. I had to send them back because they had a lot of extra material in the “fupa” area and I remember thinking this is a great addition for some people and could be really flattering on the right body type. I’m more of a muffin top girl so it was tight in the wrong place and loose in the wrong spot for me.

    • Anonymous

      They are selling a fantasy, not real life. I want to buy a swimsuit that makes me feel like a surfing instructor, not a lawyer.

      • anon

        Yeah, I’m much more likely to buy clothing on traditionally sized models. I find that the clothing on “real” body types just doesn’t look as good and I’m not interested in buying it.

        • Curious

          Oh you just haven’t seen clothing made to fit those bodies! Check out Wardrobe Oxygen’s latest feature for a counter example.

    • anon

      Yup, I feel this to my core. The plus-size models have hips and thighs like mine, which I appreciate, but they also are much curvier on top, so it’s not really a great comparison. I don’t expect to look like a model but it would be nice to know if anything is going to actually fit the way it’s intended to. The world is not ready for mom-bods, I guess.

    • Anon

      I fully get this sentiment but you can’t really expect a clothing wear brand to not feature models as models. That’s their literal job. We can ask for size and shape diversity, which I think more brands or giving. I’d love to see more straight, apple and pear models from sizes 4 to 24. But they will always be pretty, proportional, and somewhat in shape (even the plus sized models work out to maintain the exact size printed on their model sheet). Unless it’s an indie brand getting friends or volunteers off the street, you’re rarely going to see a truly average looking person. And then you guys would complain about model exploitation, so one can never win.

      • Bonnie Kate

        I agree with this. I think seeing what it looks like on real life people is what the pictures attached to online reviews are for (like Rent The Runway pictures mentioned above) but not magazines and advertising.

      • Anonymous

        Yeah, the plus-sized fitness models still look like fitness models. Because they are fitness models.

  5. Anon

    A couple of weeks ago there was a threadjack about eating fiber and someone mentioned having low motility issues in their GI. I had never heard of that but can relate to the symptoms. Poster, if you see this, would you mind sharing how you were diagnosed and how do you manage the symptoms? So, my colo-rectal doctor has advised me to eat fiber, drink water, take a stool softener and a muscle relaxer.

  6. Anonymous

    I could use suggestions for cute/stylish summer shoes that have real support. Last summer I developed some foot issues and need to wear actually supportive shoes (e.g., athletic sneakers, in the winter I’ve been wearing Naturalizer ankle boots – something like Allbirds/Rothys/Keds doesn’t cut it). I’m at a loss for what to wear this summer.

    I have Birkenstocks which I should be able sometimes, but could use another pair of shoes. I wear a lot of skirts and dresses. Most sandals are probably out, and the types of sneakers I see people wearing with skirts/dresses tend to have minimal support. Suggestions welcome.

  7. test run

    Anybody else house shopping right now? How’s it going? We just bought a new place in an absurdly booming MCOL market and I feel emotionally/financially hungover from the whole process. I feel like we actually got a decent deal for the market but seeing all the “DO NOT BUY right now!” headlines is tough to swallow, even though I feel confident it was the right call for us.

    • Anon

      Our MCOL city is overrun with people fleeing NY (mainly) and other higher-cost worse-weather states in the NEUS, so I feel that while there is a notable run-up, those people are likely here to stay (most are people realizing they can’t do long commutes in a HCOL city once they have kids and a set pick-up schedule and in a MCOL city one person can work PT or stay home and the other person isn’t living a nightmare of a commute). I feel also that if you are used to NYC/BOS prices, a MCOL city just gets bid up by the same people going after fewer close-in houses (vs outlying counties, which are where locals priced out of close-in areas tend to go). It’s great for my home price, but I am likely stuck where I am and don’t think my kids would be able to afford it unless they are very savy and very lucky with their $ as adults if they choose to stay here.

    • Cb

      We bought in December (as part of a city to country exodus) and gosh, I’m glad we didn’t wait. I have friends with no chain making 20% over offers in our village and not even getting a look-in. We’re in a 3 bed so that reduced the appeal, but suspect we’ve “made” a big chunk.

    • Vicky Austin

      We’ve had our house on the market since September. Since before Christmas absolutely nothing has moved in our area. More houses keep going on the market but nothing is selling. Our realtor just told us that some other realtor was asking her questions about our house, so I’m hoping that counts as some interest, but I’m really not holding my breath.

      • Anon

        i’m so curious as to where you live. here homes are flying off the market. those that are sitting are either wildly overpriced, or have some major issue (like the house flooded)

    • Anon

      so we are looking, but haven’t found anything we want to buy. and honestly, i don’t really care about the “do not buy” headlines. buying a house this year was kind of our plan pre covid. while yes, a house is an investment, i don’t really view it that way entirely – it is a place for us to live and enjoy as a family. i don’ think real estate is the type of investment like it used to be. i will be excited (i think) and scared and overwhelmed when we finally find a house bc it will be our first home and i get anxious when i spend a lot of money, but after living in apartments for many years, now with two small children, i’m looking forward to having a bit more space, though admittedly already overwhelmed at the thought of selecting paint colors and we haven’t even purchased a house yet

    • Ribena

      I’m vaguely looking but having to remind myself that I don’t actually dislike where I live, I just hate the pandemic.

    • No Problem

      I just bought a house too! Literally went under contract yesterday. I’ve been searching for a few months in the DC suburbs and the market is just insane. I lost out on several other offers before this. People are waiving all contingencies and paying $50-100k above the asking price on houses that will set new comps for their neighborhoods by at least $40k or more. To be fair I kind of did the same, but it was priced lower than it should have been and only exceeds the next highest comp by $20k. And it was a fair price compared to other similar houses I’ve seen in nearby neighborhoods. As someone with a stable income who is capable of qualifying for the lowest interest rate on the market, I’m not sure the “do not buy” warnings really apply to me.

      • Anon

        Interesting. Where did you buy? I was wondering if things could go higher and if the influx of Amazon people has really happened. A friend sold a house to a couple from CA, but there weren’t HQ2-related people moving. And I guess with the admin change, people are moving in/out of DC, but govt pays so little compared to shockingly high home values that IDK how people are affording it even if they are a couple of GS-14s with no kids. Never mind the large # of military people and people detailed to DC from various agencies.

        I can remember a friend who lived off of Walter Reed and her parents thought it was so rough they demanded that she live with male roommates even though they were very conservative and religious. Now, we probably could never afford that.

        • Anonymous

          There aren’t actually a ton of Amazon people moving to the DC area right now. Amazon already has 10,000 employees in the area including about 3000 corporate employees at various office locations in N Va — they’re going to be consolidated into the new HQ which right now has something like 1600-2000 employees there. Sure some people move but it’s not an influx of 25,000 people all at once — it’s like a 5-10 year plan.

        • No Problem

          There aren’t actually a ton of Amazon people moving to the DC area right now. Amazon already has 10,000 employees in the area including about 3000 corporate employees at various office locations in N Va — they’re going to be consolidated into the new HQ which right now has something like 1600-2000 employees there. Sure some people move but it’s not an influx of 25,000 people all at once — it’s like a 5-10 year plan.

      • Lilau

        “ As someone with a stable income who is capable of qualifying for the lowest interest rate on the market, I’m not sure the “do not buy” warnings really apply to me.”

        This is an important point. We house searched for YEARS (looking in a small radius for a renovation project, where inventory was low pre-pandemic) and closed a few weeks ago. I’m confident in the value for the price we paid, but the absurdly low mortgage rate made it really great deal. We’re also selling our house in the same market and stand to make money on it- so you really have to know your own situation.

      • anonnnn

        In my fantasy land, my parents sell their paid-off house in NoVA to move south as they have been threatening to do for years and give me enough money to pay off my student loans (they could still buy a house in the area they want to in cash after doing this). Don’t worry, I have not breathed a word of this to anyone, but I daydream about it A LOT.

    • Anonymous

      I bought earlier in the year/pandrmic and despite paying what I consider to be an offensive in sum of money my house has already appreciated over 100k, so I think I made a good call. The whole process was exhausting though, so many offers, viewing etc, it was like a second job.

    • Anonymous

      Do you need a house? Buy a house. If it’s a bad time, then consider it a cost of the whole endeavor right now.

    • Brit

      Hi, I’m in Northern NJ and my husband works in Manhattan and will be required to be in the office full time in the future. I really wish we could move farther away but its just not feasible.
      Like others, we’ve been saving and had 2020 as our goal to buy a house. We ended up having to wait till 2021 to save more so we could be competitive. It is really frustrating, we lost a 2b/1ba that went $120K over ask! The comps for houses with the same layout and on the same street sold in 2019 for $40-$60k under asking and our offers are usually +$50k over asking. We keep loosing to people who waive appraisals and inspections.

      In terms of “Do Not Buy”, in our area, there’s only so much inventory and there’s no space to build more houses. While we think prices may drop in the future, it won’t that much because there’s just too many people in this area that are at the home owning phases of life. My husband and I keep debating weighing building some equity verses renting another year. It’s tough to swallow this environment but we’ll see how long we’re looking

    • Anon

      Just got an offer accepted in a similarly tight market. I had been feeling anxious about about buying at the height of a market, but this place we found through a friend of a friend (so nobody is paying any commissions and the price reflects that) and it’s about $60k less than other places we’ve looked at, but is still a home we loved. I feel like the price we are paying is it’s true value.

    • Veronica Mars

      In our market, the housing market has been hot since 2017 and beyond. We were fortunate to buy in 2019, but even that was a very low inventory market, multiple offers, having to bid over asking, etc. We’re getting a huge influx of remote workers so I anticipate that the market won’t cool off for several years.

    • anon

      I’m trying to buy a simple 2 bedroom condo in a VHCOL area and keep getting outbid. People are paying insane prices. I am very particular about the neighborhood I want to be in and I am in no rush, but I am getting quite tired of it. People are supposedly leaving my city but the real estate market is still booming.

    • Anon

      I bought my first house in a hot market and it was discouraging to see the market price stagnate or even go down a bit after we got it. But it was our longer term home and the value increased really well over ten years. So don’t worry too much about moment to moment timing if you’re planning to be there for a long time. It’s like the stock market – just get in, don’t try to time your entry. Over a long horizon, this works best.

    • Anon

      We bought this past year and I so relate to the hangover. I avoided those articles completely and remind myself the interest rates are insane and help make it “worth it.” It gets better – enjoy your new home!

  8. Vacation Recs with Baby

    Good morning ladies. My husband and I are cautiously starting to plan a summer vacation (all assuming travel is safe). We have a baby who will be 10-11 months when we go, and would like a short flight (maybe 3 hours or less from DC area). We were thinking Bermuda but aren’t sure about international travel as our first trip post-covid/with a child, so also considering some spots in Florida. Any recommendations for particular hotels that would work well with a little one/where you have had a great experience? Budget is probably up to $500 or so a night.

    Thank you!

    • Anon

      Man, I would not go to Florida in the summer. It is lovely now. Greenbrier / Homestead where it won’t be so hot? We stayed in a cottage at the Greenbrier when I had a kid that old and the crib they put in for us was nicer than our one at home.

      • pugsnbourbon

        I grew up going to FL in the summer – if you stay on the coast it’ll be hot but not terrible. I think a ~1 yr old is too little for the parks, but old enough to have fun splashing on the beach.

        • Anon

          Depends on what you mean by terrible. I find 100% humidity combined with temps in the 90s to be terrible. It’s ok in the pool and it’s ok in an air conditioned building but that’s about it.

    • Anon

      Florida in the summer is miserable. Do not go there. I grew up in the DC are and it was a great place to grow up. What type of trip do you want? Like is a beach required, a pool? Your baby will likely be in the crawling stage, which depending on your child can be a bit tricky for travel (some babies around that age don’t really like to be held/contained anymore since they realize they can move and get very grumpy when you don’t let them move….but you cannot exactly crawl on cement, etc. also, anecdotally, every time we flew with our kids during the crawling stage they got sick. as they would crawl around the airport…and then stick their foot in their mouth), though was one of my favorite stages in parenting so far otherwise! i’d think about north or south carolina if you want beaches or go north to beaches there. there are also resorts in pennsylvania that will be a short drive.

      • Anonymous

        I will agree that FL is hot and humid in the summer, but DC is worse. We went to Miami Beach in July and August a couple of times, and yes it was hot, but if you are spending the day on the beach, you want hot! The evenings seemed cooler in FL than DC, too, maybe because of proximity to the ocean.

        I think there were a few days where the temperatures in DC were higher than in FL, and DC in summer is just gross. This was maybe 5-7 years ago, but we also got great rates on resort-type places right on the ocean. So we’d spend the day on the beach, pop over to the beachside bar for some beers and wings, then go back to the room, maybe take a nap, clean up, and go out to dinner.

        • Flats Only

          Thank you for posting this. I’ve always wondered if that would be the case with vacationing in South Florida from DC during the summer. Add in a Nats / Marlins game and it all sounds perfect!

        • Cat

          I agree with this… I suggested Kiawah above because it’s a super family-friendly island and you could get a room at the Sanctuary or rent a small villa (I think they’re mostly Sat-Sat rentals).

          But we’ve also been in the Palm Beach-Ft Lauderdale stretch mid-summer several times and yes, it’s hot, but so is home, and it’s way more fun to be in a lounger with sea breezes on a 90 degree day than it is to be running errands in Philly.

          I would probably avoid the southern Gulf area (Naples-Ft Myers stretch) in mid-summer because the water can get so bathtub-warm that it’s not refreshing, though.

    • Anonymous

      What parts of Florida? I wouldn’t go to South Florida in the summer. The heat and humidity is straight up brutal, and I say this as somehow who grew up in Georgia. North Florida/panhandle is more tolerable (though still can be unpleasant). If you just want to relax on a beach and not do much else, North Carolina has nice beaches (mostly rental houses rather than hotels)-you can fly to Wilmington and drive to a number of beaches quickly (I have been to and like Oak Island and Topsail. The Outer Banks are pretty far from an airport, on the other hand). I love the Golden Isles in Georgia and they have more non-beach activities (St. Simons, Jekyll, or if you have tons of money to stay at Greyfield Inn, Cumberland), but I will warn you that due to silt from the river that empties out into the sea there, the water tends to brownish, not nice and clear blue (this is particularly true of St. Simons, Jekyll and Cumberland have slightly nicer water), and again, heat/humidity can be a problem. St. Simons is mostly rental homes, but Jekyll has a couple of hotels right on the beach–Jekyll Island Resort Ocean Club has suites that would be good with kids (they have two properties, the historic buildings on the river side and the very new building on the ocean side). There’s also a Westin and a Hampton Inn on the beach which are both fine.

      • OP

        OP here – thanks for the thoughts already! We are actually coming from Richmond, VA (could drive to DC for a direct flight if needed). We’ve done the Homestead before and enjoyed it but were looking for something different. I’d just love a luxurious spot (leaning hotel) with good food, ideally a beach and pool that are somewhat baby friendly, but does not need to be the 100% focus. Also enjoy strolling through a cute town. Not super interested in Outer Banks or DE beaches for various reasons I won’t explain here. Really appreciate everyone weighing in.

        Anyone have thoughts on a Bermuda hotel?

        • pugsnbourbon

          What about New Smyrna? Cute little town, quiet beach. Hotels might not be as luxurious as you’d like tho.

        • Anonymous

          We live in Richmond and sometimes go to the Space Coast area of Florida in the summer. I don’t mind the heat and humidity nearly as much in FL as I do in VA because it’s the beach and it’s supposed to be hot and humid. If you can rent a place right on the beach, it’s a fun and relaxing vacation. FL beaches are far superior to VA Beach, the OBX, etc.

    • AIMS

      We went to Savannah with a baby but I wouldn’t do it in the middle of summer.
      Chiming in to say – look for a suite hotel room (which shouldn’t be a problem with your budget). It is so much easier with a baby! Ours went to bed at 7 and we hung in the living room or on our balcony drinking wine and chatting or people watching.

    • Anon

      I have found that with babies around that age, the beach is not fun. You have to worry about sunscreen, all of the other stuff you need to hang at the beach, they are too little to really play, mine didn’t like sand and once their hands got wet in the water, it was a nightmare if their hands got sandy or it got in their eyes etc. We always enjoyed pool time much more!

    • Anon

      I live within 30 min of the best Florida beaches…don’t come here during the summer. A one-year old is too young to enjoy the beach and their nap schedules will make you miserable packing up and unpacking your beach stuff every day. Go to a coastal town in Connecticut. I had an amazing day in Stonington, CT (near the Mass border) one August and still dream of renting there for a week one future summer.

    • Bonnie Kate

      Just another perspective – we lived in South Central Florida (basically right in the middle of the Everglades) for one year and loved the heat and humidity of the summer. I’m weird that I kind of love walking into a furnace. Hands down, the very best beach day I’ve ever had was in July on the gulf side. The ocean water is SO MUCH WARMER in the summer and it’s amazing to swim in. We kayaked with dolphins, saw tons of nature, it was overall just a glorious day and I will absolutely do it again. Plus in the summer you have so many less people. I wouldn’t do anything in land like Disney, but a beach vacation 100% yes.

      Also, for the $500/night you can get an awesome Airbnb all to yourself, which in my mind seems a lot easier with a child.

  9. still not April Whittier

    Folks with passion-project side gigs, how do you consider that income in terms of shared finances? I am waiting on the contract for my first book deal (!!!). Obviously that’s no guarantee that anyone will ever buy my book, and I have no aspirations of quitting my day job. Would you consider that personal fun money? Or treat it the same as income from your day job, that would be considered for shared expense allocation?

    • Anonymous

      We are married not roommates. All of our money is for both of us for the collective benefit of our family. If one of us gets a particularly awesome bonus, we make sure that person gets an extra treat.

      • Anonymous

        +1. 100% combined, no divisions whatsoever (including for gifts, family expenses, splurges, etc). Congratulations on your book deal!

      • anonshmanon

        now see, ‘that person gets an extra treat’ sounds totally grating to me. We are adults in an equal relationship, not a pet and a keeper. Just goes to show that every couple is different.

        • Anonymous

          Ummm in no way does it operate like a pet and keeper lol. We decide together how to spend a windfall and agree that the person who earns it gets first dibs on using a chunk of it on a personal want. For example I’ve done weekend getaways, he got a fancy electronic thing. It’s a joint decision.

        • Anonymous

          This. My husband gets a bonus every year because he works at a for-profit company. I will never get a bonus because we decided together that I would work in the nonprofit sector. Should he get a “treat” every year that I never get just because we jointly decided that his job was for $$$ and mine was to give back to the world on behalf of both of us?

          • Walnut

            I’d consider his bonus basically a variable component of the household’s annual compensation which would get dumped into the joint account and allocated based on joint goals (house projects, vacation, car replacement, etc.)

            I would perceive it different than OP’s situation.

          • Anon

            This comment was soliciting different ways of doing this, and I don’t think anonshmanon’s is trying to judge anybody’s specific relationship dynamic.

      • still not April Whittier

        Thanks! This is the philosophical question I was getting at in my post, which I maybe didn’t do a great job of articulating: is it joint money, or solo money?

    • Anon

      IDK — it’s likely non-recurring, so I’d throw at paying off student loans or car loans or putting in a retirement account. It would be great to have it as a recurring item, but I’d treat as a one-time windfall and invest it, not commit it to ongoing bills (which should be scaled to your day job).

      • still not April Whittier

        My only debt is our mortgage, and my husband has historically been resistant to me helping with his student loans. I guess it just feels so…boring?? to just stick it in a retirement account? I didn’t start this journey with any intention that I’d ever make money at it.

        • Walnut

          If you’re not quite sure what you want to do with it now, maybe the best answer is to drop it into an after tax brokerage account? It’s there for use when you figure out what would make the most impact. Personally, I would take some of the cash and buy a piece of jewelry/art/something tangible to celebrate the accomplishment.

    • AZCPA

      We treat windfall funds as separate, I guess with a nod to our joint situation? So depending on how much it was, I’d start with a reward/treat for myself, then tackle a debt or project that was mine or benefitted primarily me. And if there was still more, probably put it towards truly joint things.

      When I recently had a windfall, I finally (since I’d been wanting it for years) had our master closet redone by CA Closets. Technically it benefits him since he uses it, but he’d be fine using mismatched hangers and plastic bins to store his clothes, so the joy I feel daily from going in there is lost on him.

    • Anon

      I’m single, so no real opinion on how to allocate the money. But congratulations!!!!! Finishing a novel is a huge goal of mine, so you’re a billion steps ahead and it’s inspiring! What a wonderful outcome!!!

      • still not April Whittier

        Thank you! It’s been a whirlwind and I’m still trying to wrap my head around it. I’ve always loved to read and write, but I was never someone who dreamed of being A Writer or had aspirations of being A Published Author, if that makes sense. But at the same time, I knew I wanted to write a novel to prove to myself that I could do it. I had no expectation when I started this process that things would end up going the way they have!

      • still not April Whittier

        Sure! It started with a come-to-Jesus conversation with myself in 2018. I wasn’t happy with how little I’d written in the last 6-7 years, and I wanted to prove to myself that I could finish something. I can’t sit down and write 6,000 words in a weekend, so I decided I was going to write for 20 minutes a day, every day, no exceptions, because waiting to feel inspired and motivated had gotten me exactly nowhere. I’m a morning person and my brain is fried by the end of the workday, so I started setting an alarm at 5:45 to get in my 20 minutes. That eventually got bumped back to 5:30, and now I aim for 40-60 minutes of writing, six days a week. If my brain quits after 20 though, I don’t beat myself up about it.

        Basically, I took a hard look at how my current behaviors were failing to serve my goals; brainstormed how to set myself up for success; and then did it until it became routine. That could look different for you than it does for me, though.

        I should also note, I work a steady 40ish hours a week, and don’t have kids. (Which was actually a major contributing factor in deciding to go all-in on getting the book done when I did, since we plan to start trying in the next year or so.)

    • Anon

      We have joint finances but each have a separate checking account we each get $200/month in. We put our birthday money and Christmas gift money in there. Bonuses go into the joint account but we will sometimes put a small amount into our private account from it. We use our individual accounts for no questions asked spending.

    • Anon

      We have had combined finances since we had kids but we also do some separate spending that we don’t have to have consensus on. I worked a grinding job that paid huge bonuses for a while and I would usually buy something for myself when I got one. My rule was spend 10% save 90%. So sometimes a piece of jewelry or something like that just for me.

      But sometimes a family trip to a place I liked (I’m a simp for Hawaii) using mostly miles and points accumulated from my daily grind, but the splurgey dinners or excursions were treats from my bonus.

    • NYNY

      If your family’s financial situation is secure, then I think this is your fun money. Unlike some other windfalls, like inheritances or settlements, you put yourself out for this one. All that changes if there are debts to be covered or savings to shore up. Congrats on the book deal!

      • still not April Whittier

        Thanks!

        Just going through the thought exercise of this thread, I’ve been surprised at how resistant I feel about putting it into retirement or treating it like I treat my salary. I’ve always been conservative with my personal finances and our situation is fine overall. So I don’t know what I/we will end up doing!

      • still not April Whittier

        Not yet. That’s in part because I’m 99% sure he’s going to tell me it’s all my money, and I wanted to see what other folks said to get a baseline first.

    • Anon

      We don’t count money made from our creative endeavors towards our budget at all. It’s too variable and uncertain. We each invest our earnings back into the projects. He’s a gigging musician who puts payments towards equipment, and I use money made from my writing towards writing-related stuff (maintaining my website, paying for software, hiring a graphic designer).

      • still not April Whittier

        This is a really great point that I hadn’t thought about, even though setting up a website is on my to-do list for this weekend. Thank you!

  10. Anonymous

    Anon for this — if you have a spouse with anxiety/depression I know this sounds unfeeling but is there a point at which you just ignore their complaints? For the last few years for like half a year husband complains about every physical symptom in the book — headache to chest pain etc. It has always worried me so we run dr to dr including specialists. All testing done and a number of drs. primary and specialist say it’s anxiety/depression. They’ve given meds. He’s tried 4 different ones, takes them ranging from 1 day to 10 days max and quits because he doesn’t like how they feel. Ok then drs suggest really working on lifestyle — exercise, yoga, meditation, stretching, therapy etc. (because they say it is mild anxiety/depression that doesn’t need meds). He’ll do the therapy but nothing else. Or he’ll work out for 3 days once every couple months and that’s it — which is not what drs. suggest, they suggest daily; they suggest going outside daily in the morning sun and he won’t bother. Then every few days/week, he’ll unload on me on how miserable he is, how nothing helps, how no one cares, no one even knows what will help etc. If I then say look you’ve been given things to do that you don’t do, how about yoga or whatever — he’ll fume — what yoga, there’s 50,000 types of yoga; or he’ll fume I did the deep breathing 3 whole times and it didn’t help. (And he’s been told that for lifestyle changes to help it has to be daily for about a month, not off and on here and there). But then he vents at me and feels better.

    But just looking at him, how can anyone feel well if their activities are — get out of bed, sit on couch (or work from couch but his job isn’t terribly taxing nor interactive with others), and then play on his phone for hours and hours and hours a day. He’ll sit there and go on about the vaccine rollout in Timbuktu and how efficient it is or not — but real participation in his own life or household — anything from errands to picking up the mail to taking out the garbage — nope can’t bother. This isn’t just related to the pandemic though, it was going on for a 1-2 yrs prior though I think the pandemic hasn’t helped as he’s been deeply scared to go out (but says he isn’t) and then when vaccines rolled out, I’m not exactly sure how but he got himself an appt ASAP months ago with no concern for me/when or how I’d get it, even though I’m the one who does 100% of our errands. I’m at the point where it’s like whatever dude — you’re a smart man. Many many drs have told you what to do but they can’t make you do it, if you don’t want to, fine but I’m not listening to this every 3 days . . . . Anyone else get to this point. (We’re also young married — so I’m now like uh wait where was all this when we were dating though admittedly we didn’t live together so holding it together for a few hours or a half day was probably not so hard.)

    • Anon

      I don’t know, sounds like he’s a selfish ass in addition to also having depression.

      • Anon

        Exactly. People can be both depressed and terrible people.

        OP I don’t understand why you’ve remained married to this guy.

        On a much smaller scale, my husband is a complainer. I have learned to turn a deaf ear to upwards of 50% of it. But he’s a complainer who probably does 75% of the household chores, if I’m being honest.

    • Anonymous

      Why are you still married? Yes. Def stop buying into his complaints. Def stop indulging and listening. Def stop doing 100% of the work of making your joint lives run.

      But also get out now before it gets even harder. He doesn’t care to fix his problems. Just get the divorce you know you need.

    • Anonymous

      My BF is suffering from some pretty severe depression/anxiety right now. I have to say that the one thing that keeps me hanging in is that he seems committed to treatment. He doesn’t do some of the lifestyle modifications that would help right now, but that is in large part because he travels several days a week (plus the loop of paralysis that depression sometimes creates). If he were just complaining without seeking and accepting help, I think I would have ended things. We are far from married, so that solution is not really a simple option for you — just saying I think the lack of trying is highly dispositive of how you react.

    • Anonymous

      He sounds very depressed and like he needs to STAY on medication. Most of the meds don’t do diddly squat after a week. I’m sorry you’re going through this and support whatever you need to do.

    • anon

      This sounds like a hard situation. You can’t help someone who isn’t willing to help themselves. It doesn’t sound like he’s SO debilitated that he has a good reason to leave everything to you. :( I would highly recommend counseling for YOU, to figure out how to live with this without drowning.

    • Anon

      As someone who has dealt with depression and also has several medical conditions that have required side effect ridden medications over the years, he really needs to try meds for longer. It’s really, really hard to deal with drugs that make you feel worse when you already feel bad, but every antidepressant needs a lot longer than that to work and many of them will make you feel lousy at first. I understand how frustrating this must be for you, and ultimately it’s up to you how much you’re willing to put up with, but I encourage you to push him harder on this and other things that might help and do what you can to make things more manageable. I know how ridiculous his excuses sound, but those are all classic examples of depression talking. Exercise with him, help him stick to a healthy sleep schedule, indulge him a little when he’s taking new meds to help the transition. Obviously you need to take care of your own wellbeing too, but most people with depression can get better, whether it’s with meds, lifestyle changes, or therapy, so if you want to stay with him, it’s worth giving this a real try instead of just deciding it’s hopeless (this is what someone with depression thinks).

      • anonnnn

        I feel differently, also as someone who manages anxiety and depression (and has for 20+ years) and is currently in a deep swing of crying every day depression.

        He has to want to help himself. If he had tried and given up once, I would agree with the above advice, but this has gone on for quite some time and IMHO, it’s clear he doesn’t want to help himself and he also doesn’t have to as you are keeping the household going. I would NEVER expect a partner to shoulder the burden that he is contiuning to ask you to shoulder. Nope. This is what therapists are for. He needs one, but since he won’t, I would get one for you so that you can talk this out and get to the conclusion that is best for YOU. Depression SUCKs, but it isn’t a pass go collect $200 get out of jail free card. Especially after a long time of refusing to listen to professionals and using you as his therapist/punching bag.

        I’m sorry you are going through this – please focus on you and do what’s best for you.

        • Anon

          This. There’s an important distinction between a can-do person who’s battling anxiety and depression and a person who is lazy/whiny/needy with anxiety and depression. Anxiety and depression may keep you from feeling and/or being able to achieve things, but at least in my case, there’s always that awareness there that you’re not carrying your load, doing your best, etc, and you WANT to be able to. It’s the wanting that sounds like it’s missing here. Anxiety/depression does not mean a person needs a caretaker. Said another way, your partner was probably like this before the anxiety/depression and this exacerbated it.

      • Anon

        Anon at 11:34 here- I agree with all of you that she shouldn’t put up with it indefinitely if he refuses to try. But she doesn’t say she wants to leave him or that she’s not able to manage her own life and mental health, she just wants to ignore the situation, which sounds miserable. It also sounds like he hasn’t given any of the things that would help a serious try (taking meds for a week doesn’t count), and she hasn’t pushed him on it (plus it is a global pandemic, which clouds everyone’s situation right now and makes everything harder). Before she just up and leaves him, I think it is worth a serious effort to help him get better and see how things look up once the pandemic is over. If he still refuses to do make any effort at that point, then I think it is time to think about leaving, but I take my marriage vows seriously and would at least give it a real try before just ending things. The hopelessness about anything helping is one of the main symptoms of depression, not a personality trait, so he really needs support to think that he can get better.

        • Walnut

          On this note, I’d pick up a very time consuming hobby (or two) plus therapy on your own.

    • Anonymous

      I listened to a podcast yesterday with Dr David Burns, who has written a couple of books called FeelingGood and a new one FeelingGreat. He has a view on treating depression that was new to me. I don’t know anything more than what I heard in the podcast, but what made me think about it when I read your post is his process is one 2-3 hour session. It might be worth you or your husband looking him up as if it is credible, perhaps that would be a treatment option your husband could pursue.

    • Anon

      Oh honey. I’m so sorry. Do you have kids? It sounds like not. If not, I would seriously ask yourself if this is how you want to live the rest of your life. Because all indications point to he is not going to change. In fact, I would argue it is likely to get worse.

      It is not your job to fix this. And it is not your life sentence to have to put up with this forever in the name of compassion, especially when he has things he can do but is not.

      (The answer might be the same if you have kids, but more complicated).

    • Senior Attorney

      Yes I got to that point and I left. It’s 25 years later and he’s still about the same (no worse, interestingly) and I’m a heck of a lot happier.

      Pro tip: If you don’t have kids now, don’t have any unless you are 100% fine with carrying all the parenting weight.

      • Anonymous

        I’d say don’t have kids rn even if you can stomach doing all the work yourself. You’re going to resent him for not doing his fair share just like you resent him for not doing his share of household chores. There’s a world of difference between being a single parent because you’re actually single vs. doing everything on your own even though your husband and coparent is sitting on the couch doing nothing while also claiming that he doesn’t know what needs to be done or how to do it because you don’t communicate with him so really it’s your fault he’s useless. Also your community will show up for you if you have a baby on your own. People are a lot less willing to bail out a dead best dad though – which is how they’ll feel if you have to ask for their help because dad isn’t willing to lift a finger.

        • Anonymous

          +1 million. Don’t put yourself in the position of parenting children and a spouse.

        • Monday

          +1 to not having kids with this person, whether or not you’re up for doing all the work yourself. One more reason: Growing up with a parent with untreated mental illness can be just as bad for a kid as if the parent had an active addiction. Scary, unpredictable behavior, and/or emotional or physical neglect. And if you ever decided to divorce him down the road, he would then probably have the kids solo for his share of the time, and you couldn’t even monitor the situation.

    • Anonome

      Hey there – having a spouse with depression is so hard. I’m sorry you’re going through this. My spouse has treatment-resistant depression and 2018 and 2019 were really, really bad.

      You have to put on your own oxygen mask first. I recommend seeing a therapist on your own if you can swing it – mine helped me figure out if I wanted to stay or go. I decided that if things weren’t better in a year, I’d leave. My therapist also helped me figure out what I was going to say when my spouse started venting or ruminating. Even if someone is depressed, you’re not required to listen to every round of venting/fuming.

      I hope things get better for you soon.

    • anon

      My husband struggles with depression and anxiety. I’ve been on the edge of divorcing him several times, and the only reason I haven’t is that he’s sought treatment, both with meds and therapy, and they’ve helped. I agree that everything you describe sounds like a classic symptom of depression. One thing that’s really, really hard about it is that you can’t really see a way out, and no amount of willpower (to eat getter, to exercise, etc.) is going to help soon enough to make a difference. Even medication takes up to 6 weeks to make a difference. There are circumstantial things that have helped my husband maintain a state of not-totally-depressed, but they came after the meds and therapy started working, when there was less despair.

    • Anonymous

      I’m sorry, this sucks. You deserve better than living with somebody that treats you as his emotional dumpster, maid, and errand runner.

      What you describe, is a man who shows no respect for your well-being. You can absolutely ignore his complaints.

      The smart thing to do would probably be to start therapy for your own sake, but with the assumption that you also shortly will be preparing for a divorce. Based on the description of his behavior, it’s probably smart to have all your plans in order (including finances and living situation) before you tell him, because it’s very likely he’ll go for emotional blackmailing and reinforcing patterns of him suddenly getting “new” symptoms to try and make you invested in him and having to be driver/nurse to the ER again, suddenly needing a lot of all the support he’s leeching now.

      I say leaching because based on your description he is choosing to not follow the plans he gets because it’s more convenient for him not to. While depression and anxiety is terrible to live through and very much a reason for compassion from others, he has consistently shown you that he has no incentive to try in a meaningful way, and you get to protect yourself from that, and from being prisoner to his untreated illness any longer.

    • Anon

      This sounds a lot like my marriage that ended in divorce when I was 32 (married at 27). We also hadn’t lived together beforehand. For 3 years, he would try a little of everything (specialists for inexplicable back pain that seemed psychosomatic at best or a convenient excuse to do nothing at worst, therapy, exercise, meds) but always complaining and wanting sympathy while doing nothing at home, working a very menial job, and expecting me to support him. Scrolling endlessly on the phone is VERY familiar. Doing none of the errands or housework is VERY familiar. We finally ended it one day when he was glued to the couch scrolling and I was vacuuming. I asked if he could put down the phone and help me clean, and we got into a fight because I was “always nagging him”. Asking someone to contribute equally isn’t nagging. We split up. It wasn’t dramatic. We didn’t have kids. I still talk to him now and again. It has been 5 years, and nothing has changed. Still underemployed, still living with his mom who he returned to upon our divorce, still complaining about everything. You just can’t help people who won’t help themselves. That wasn’t the life I wanted for myself.

    • Anon

      Sorry, advice is to divorce him before you have kids or before he quits his job and you have to pay support.

    • Anon

      You just described my ex-husband. A part of it was anxiety and depression, willfully untreated, and the rest of it was being a lazy jerk who had no problem sitting there while others worked their tails off doing the chores that keep the household going. He did just fine at work, so he could function fine when he wanted to. Not only is my life much easier without him, I am rid of the resentment and anger that his behavior engendered and am in a much better place without him and all his bs. I have no advice, but you sure do have my sympathy.

    • anon

      This sounds a lot like my marriage….married at 26, divorced at 30. Hadn’t lived together beforehand, and did everything “right” according to the guidance of my religion. So I totally understand that you didn’t see this beforehand. I also think my ex deliberately tried to hide the symptoms of his depression beforehand. I eventually got to a point where I was fantasizing about things like running away if I found out I was pregnant, because I didn’t want him to be involved with raising my child. For me, and I realize this isn’t what you were initially asking, but it might be useful – there was a lot of struggle within me between my feeling of duty in marriage – what my obligations were, and what do do about the fact I was miserable and didn’t want to keep living life with him. “People’s” judgments REALLY didn’t help – I suspected half my social circle would judge me if I left, and the other half would judge me for staying and putting up with things, and that fear of what “people” would say left me paralyzed. In the end, I finally made peace with myself that I didn’t like him, I didn’t like the person I would need to be to make this marriage work (! huge!), and that I never wanted to raise kids in that environment. And when I did divorce, people were much kinder than I imagines (80% really didn’t care, 19% were amazingly supportive, and 1 annoying colleague said annoying colleague things that just made me hope his daughters never needed a divorce). So, in summary, I just want to let you know….if you don’t feel like he’s your friend and teammate, and has never been, I don’t think it’s likely that it will change. And, for me, I’m so so so glad I divorced. And I now am in another, wonder, relationship, with someone who makes every moment of my life better, and who I feel is a real partner who I respect and enjoy. Best of luck to you….I know it’s really hard.

  11. Carla

    What would you do in this situation?

    I’m in my mid-20s single, live in a VHCOL city. Both renting and buying a house is expensive here. I make about $150k a year. I like my career and industry but I’m not sure if I will be at my particular company for a long time. I always want to live in this city.
    My parents want to give me the money for a 20% downpayment on an apartment. I’ve found an apartment I like, its gorgeous, in a good neighborhood where I would like to live and with good resale value.
    The apartment is $600k, about average for apartments here it turns out. The mortgage would be about $2300 a month and fees etc would be $800 a month. I could rent an apartment around here for $2k – $2.4k per month, so I would be paying more with the mortgage + fees. However it is doable with my salary and would still allow me to save.
    Would you buy the apartment?

    • anon

      If this doesn’t bring down your monthly living expenses then I’m not sure it’s worth it. Would your parents consider giving you the money so you could invest it elsewhere?

      • Carla

        I don’t think they would give it to me to invest elsewhere, but they would probably give it for a down payment later on. Unfortunately in this area the apartments worth buying (good location, have resale value, etc) are around this price.

      • Anon

        I don’t live in an area where you buy a home to bring down your expenses. Buying a home brings up your expenses in the short term, but over time those expenses are fixed so while rents go up your housing costs stay the same.

        Plus a home is an investment. I don’t follow your logic at all.

        To OP do you want to live there? Are you ready to make that kind of investment and commitment? Do you want to own your own place? If so, go for it.

        • Carla

          Yes. Investment, yes. Commitment, not sure. It would be nice to own a place, decorate it as I like, etc.

        • Anon

          A home could potentially be a money pit, too. Sounds like she might already at the top end of her budget, in which case she’s better off putting that down payment money into a brokerage account.

      • Anonymous

        This. Free money for an apartment is amazing. But I wouldn’t let it nudge you into something you can’t really afford.

    • Hildy J.

      I’m a huge believer in buying vs. renting, building up equity, even in HCOL, which is not a popular opinion. Even when you’re young, which is also not a popular opinion. But even with parental money, it sounds to me like you’re aiming awfully high. I’d buy a starter home, not a near-forever home, in your 20s.

      • Clara

        The sad thing is this is a 1 bedroom apartment! Being sold by a woman who bought it 10 years ago, got married and still lived there, but is now having kids so she needs to sell it and get a bigger apartment.

      • Clara

        My parents are also big big big believers in that. I’m starting to think though that while I would love to buy a home, I’m not completely settled (no husband, no kids, still building career) and I could find other places to invest money that may have a higher return than buying and selling this apartment in several years.

        • Bonnie Kate

          I change my advice given just below based on this comment – We were posting at the same time and now my comment is just below yours…don’t buy if you really don’t want to! Reading between all the lines, it kind of sounds like your parents really want you to buy, but you don’t. I would not want to commit to such a big purchase without feeling fairly settled – not that you need husband and kids to feel settled.

      • Bonnie Kate

        Agree with most of this. DH and I have definitely built wealth through buying early; while there are other ways to do this, it is a way that works really well for us. One thing I’d think about and ask your parents is if you sell in five years, do they have any expectation that the downpayment goes back to them? If they don’t have that expectation, then you have 20% equity immediately in a strong resale market – that’s a pretty great return.

    • Anon B

      If you really like the apartment and location and indeed want to stay in the city indefinitely, then go for it! Over the potential decades you intend to live there, your income may increase, or you can always sell in a pinch. I’d argue that the weight of the calculation of monthly costs of buying vs. renting should be slightly different if you really intend to stay in the area and may wind up amortizing the place over multiple decades, during which your income may rise, a partner may move in, etc. In that situation, stretching a little bit initially isn’t a terrible idea.

    • FormerlyPhilly

      Just because it’s listed at 600k doesn’t mean it will sell for 600k — everything around me is selling for 100k over list price.

    • Senior Attorney

      Yes, I definitely would. Sounds like after taxes the cost would be about the same, depending on your tax bracket.

      • Clara

        Hmm I don’t follow this – An apartment would be say $2k rent with no additional taxes, this would be at least $3k with taxes included.

        • Senior Attorney

          I forget not everbody lives in a high tax state. I live in Calif. where the top marginal rate is 11.3%, on top of top marginal federal rate of 22%, for a total marginal rate of about 1/3. So it comes about about even in my state.

        • Anon

          That was my question. Your quoted mortgage amount doesn’t include insurance and taxes, right? I have a house I bought for $270k in an area w/ high property taxes. My 30 year mortgage w/ taxes and insurance are $2025/month. I can’t imagine you’d only pay $2200/month for a $480k mortgage.

          • Anon

            I would be very surprised if a mortgage broker didn’t tell her the monthly costs including taxes and insurance.

          • Anonymous

            I think when she says “fees” it includes taxes and insurance. I live in a neighborhood with very similar prices and am currently looking, and the math sounds about right to be for that price/mortgage/fees.

        • Anon

          You can deduct the mortgage interest you pay from your income taxes. Do an online tax calculator to see if it will be worth it to itemize and take the deduction. If so, then you really need to look at what your costs are net of taxes. It’s a huge savings for me.

    • Anonymous

      I did this recently in NYC (but with my own money). Same salary, similar though slightly higher purchase price and monthly maintenance fees. Make sure you are comfortable with the total monthly outlay. I can definitely afford it but every month it is a big chunk more than I was previously paying (granted my place is much nicer)…and it means I am unlikely to take a job less than $150K in the future even if it seems like an awesome job I’d like better than my current one.

      I’d also say make sure you’ll be happy in that apartment for 5 years.

    • Blueberries

      Do what works best for your personal situation.

      One thing to consider is that in my VHCOL city, rents/prices keep going up astronomically. For the past few decades, a person who has wanted to live here forever would have been much, much better off buying as soon as they could. Over time, people get priced out of buying or even continuing to rent. I don’t think everywhere is like this, but it’s a consideration.

    • Anon

      100% yes I would, and I did. It appreciated in my VHCOL city, I turned it into a duplex, became a landlord and continue to invest in real estate. Rent is just tossing money down the drain. Own and you build equity. You can sell later or keep it as a rental if you partner up. Best thing you can do for your personal wealth building I’d buy when you’re young.

  12. Anon Dream House or Job

    Tell me I’m nuts. I work in-house at a F50 company and have a good quality of life, flexible, good support being a working mom etc. However, I don’t feel I have upward mobility in my current role. How crazy is it to upend my family to take an in-house job in Asia? Kids are elementary/pre-elementary and assume spouse is fine with it but we live in a house we just remodeled and adore. I feel like the hardest thing for me to let go of is the house that we put so much love, effort and time into and have only lived in for a year and half. But I always wanted a chance to have my kids live abroad and have always been on the look-out for an intenational opportunity which is hard to find in my U.S focused specialty. My original timeline to move to a new job (which would still have meant a move out of town) was about 2 years from now. There are many other issues to sort out but the perfect house is a weird emotional stick for me to be tied to no?

    • Anon

      I don’t think it’s weird! It might be a sacrifice you have to make to do this, but it’s definitely not a weird thing to be sad about. For me, I would be really bummed but it would not be worth delaying the opportunity.

      • Anon Dream House or Job

        I don’t think we would ever move back to this city when we come back to the states so renting may be moot. The move is to a new company- Seoul, SK – if anyone has thoughts to add about life in the city please.

        • Senior Attorney

          Seoul is amazing. I have visited and seriously it is the best city I’ve ever been in. I have a friend who was stuck there when the pandemic hit and he had a fantastic experience. DO IT.

        • Senior Attorney

          Don’t know why my comment is in mod but check back — I’ve been to Seoul and I am two thumbs up.

    • Anon

      Do it. You won’t be able to upend your children like this as they get older, so the time is now.

      (I mean, plenty of people do upend older children but it is rarely in the best interest of the kids)

    • Anon

      I think this sounds like an opportunity you will really regret not taking if you choose the house. Especially given that you’ve always wanted to live abroad with your kids. Anecdotally I know a family that did this same thing but in Europe for a few years and all of the now adult children absolutely loved the experience.

      • Cb

        Do it! It sounds so cool. Rent out your house and if it doesn’t work out, you’ve got a soft landing.

    • BB

      It’s not nuts to want to move internationally (I’ve done it, loved it, and want to do it again), but make sure you know what you’re getting into in terms of the role and work life balance. To generalize, Asian companies and Asian parts of US companies tend to expect much longer work hours and being “on” all the time. You will also have to deal with evening calls from the US if you are working in a cross-border company. You also say that your current company is very supportive of you being a working mom…this may also be up for debate in your new company (which to be fair, is also true if you go to another US company). Seoul is a nice city, but attitudes towards working moms are a step behind the US.

    • Anon

      so it is nuts to me, but i don’t have any desire to live abroad with my kids. your situation sounds different. you say you’e only lived in the house for 1.5 years, but were planning on moving in 2 years anyway, so while it is less time in the house, you did not exactly plan on staying there forever?

  13. Sloan Sabbith

    What makes your morning better? For me, it’s waking up to music (Shuffling The Beatles is my current #1 pick), having time to make a homemade latte and eat breakfast, and a bit of outdoors time before the day starts. Outdoors time was a lot easier pre-COVID because it was built into my schedule-dog walk and/or walk to and from the bus to work.

    • Anonymous

      Not commuting. Now I can actually enjoy coffee and breakfast and not be scrambling out the door and worrying that the caffeine is going to make me have to pee before I’m to my office an hour away. I don’t have to coordinate an outfit and wear an uncomfortable bra and make sure I didn’t forget my keys and everything else that goes along with rushing out the door in the dark. It’s absolutely transformational, especially on days when I have GI issues or I’m on my cycle and need a little more time in the morning. I never realized before how much harder it is to manage medical problems when you’re dealing with a rough commute.

    • Marie

      Watching a funny or cute video on YouTube can be a good mood booster, but just be careful you don’t fall down the rabbit hole and get sucked into a loop of similar videos and suddenly an hour has gone by!

    • anonymous

      One particular song that just sets my mood right, followed by NPR while I make coffee and get ready. My puppy’s look of joy on her heart-meltingly cute face when I release her from her crate and she demands snuggles on the floor until I take her out.

      From a practical perspective, at least 90% of my clothing and belongings being where they are supposed to be located so I don’t have to scurry around looking for something at the last minute which of course only destroys my house further.

    • CountC

      Now that I am WFH, every morning I sit on the couch with the pets, drink coffee, and do the NYT crossword, followed by 10 minutes of meditation on the Calm app. It’s fab.

    • Anon

      I usually roll out of bed to have tea and a light breakfast in my PJs, check email and make a game plan for the day, then shower and dress for the day. Now that we have a newly adopted dog, that structures the morning even more. He needs some outside time in the morning as he sleeps in a crate, so I’ve been sitting on my back steps with him for a while with a cup of tea. It’s very nice.

    • Bonnie Kate

      At home immediately:
      Warm water with sea salt and lemon
      Meditating for 5-10 minutes

      Once at work – which starts at 7am, so early, standard for my industry unfortunately –
      Coffee with the new Starbucks almond/oat milk caramel macchiato creamer.
      Low productivity expectations for the morning. I get most of my work done in the afternoon.

      Also – I am not a morning workout person and my life got so much better and easier when I gave up the idea that I needed to workout in the morning (and then be mad every morning when it didn’t happen).

    • Anon

      I bike to work every day. I love getting some fresh air and exercise before I get to work.

      • Cb

        My April goal is to give myself a fake commute – 30-40 minutes on the bike or walking before work. I did it accidentally the other day and my day was so much better.

    • Anonymous

      No new emails when I wake up. Waking up in plenty of time to get to a gym appointment and pleasant weather for the walk there. Not having anything scheduled before 10 am so I can also walk my dogs and enjoy a cup of coffee and a light breakfast before getting down to business.

    • Anonymous

      My ideal morning is

      -coffee in bed
      -workout
      -walk dog to the lake
      -homemade muffin and latte on the deck
      -shower

      This whole process takes 3 hours.

  14. anon

    Talk to be about becoming a “dress person.” As a pear shape, I think it would solve many of my summer wardrobe dilemmas. I just happen to be really into my separates for ease and for fear of flashing everyone. Having the right underthings would probably help matters, though. What do ya’ll wear under casual and/or sporty dresses to reduce sweating and chafing? I have tried the Jockies skimmies and find them stifling hot. My 6-year-old daughter wears Primary cotton/spandex undershorts under her dresses. If there’s an adult option that’s similar, I’d be all-in, haha.

    • ollie

      Girlfriend Collective just released a dress that has built-in shorts underneath and it’s super cute. Mine hasn’t arrived yet but I love all of my other stuff from them.

    • Anonymous

      I wear underwear and don’t flash people. I use mega babe chub rub for thigh rubbing issues.

      • shananana

        second this. Once it is hot, this is my answer. That stuff saves me once its sweaty season. I do occasionally still wear skimmies when I want some smoothing and its not super hot out.

    • Ribena

      I used to wear cotton/Lycra cycle shorts under skirts and dresses until Forever 21 first discontinued the ones I like and then exited the UK! I have started buying what Snag Tights brand as ‘chub rub’ shorts – essentially shorts made out of tights – and they are perfect for this.
      I also wear hose for anything formal in the summer. Much more comfortable for me!

    • PolyD

      I buy Spanx/Assets (available at Kohl’s) one size up from what the chart on the package says. They are the only undershorts I’ve found where the legs don’t roll up. The ones I get also have enough cotton (like, they are more like an Ace bandage in texture than smooth shiny satin) that they breathe enough for summer. They are certainly fine for being inside in an office, and I even wear them when it’s hella hot, because they prevent chub rub and just general skin-on-skin sweatiness, which I hate.

    • No Problem

      Body Glide for the chafing, and I prefer to wear boyshort style underwear under skirts and dresses. They cover a bit more of my hip/leg and reduce the VPL and wedgie risk. As long as your dress is long enough, you won’t flash anyone.

    • Anon

      I wear champion cotton bike shorts. I don’t like skimmies. The cotton bike shorts are way better for me in terms of comfort.

      • Anon

        I should mention I’m pretty much the hottest person alive and live in NOLA, so anything stifling that makes me hotter or sweatier is a no go. I have the “original” and the “cooling” and I like them both a lot. The cooling ones are super thin – like as thin as underwear but just prevents the thigh rub and is a lifesaver for me. I wear dresses 99% of the time, so I wear these year round.

        • anon

          You said: “I should mention I’m pretty much the hottest person alive…” when I read that I thought: “wow – isn’t she just full of herself?!” But then I read the context and understood. Sorry, I couldn’t resist. ???

    • Anon

      I wear short under armor spandex shorts. This is a holdover from my days of wearing a kilt as part of my school uniform for 14 years. I never ever wear dresses without spandex.

      • Anon

        My daughter played varsity and club field hockey and she calls them spandex too! To me, spandex is a fabric. But to her and her friends, when you say spandex you mean spandex shorts.

      • NY CPA

        Same! Although I wear Jockey Skimmies now. But it all started with Under Armor under kilts.

      • Anon

        I just had a flashback to wearing boy’s cotton boxers under our kilts in school!

    • Anon

      I like Skimmies, but if it’s hot I just wear regular underwear and use deodorant on my thighs to prevent rubbing. If you sit properly you won’t flash anyone?

    • Curious

      Pregnancy has made me a dress person. I had to get over my fear of leggings and accept that sometimes I didn’t like how shoes looked at the bottom of skinny legs vs skinny jeans and that would be okay. The pandemic helped because I could experiment without being in the office where people would see below the waist.

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