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Frugal Friday’s TPS Report: Marker Stripe Cotton Cardigan

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Ann Taylor Marker Stripe Cotton Cardigan | CorporetteOur daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. There is just a teeny, tiny splash of mint here, which elevates this cardigan beyond your basic black and white. I always like mint with cobalt, as well as dark purple, but that's me — obviously neutrals like black, navy, gray, and beige would look great with this cardigan, as would pastels. It's $59.50 full price, but today is marked to $29.50. Loft Marker Stripe Cotton Cardigan A couple of plus-size alternatives are here (reversible) and here. Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-4)

Sales of note for 3/26/25:

  • Nordstrom – 15% off beauty (ends 3/30) + Nordy Club members earn 3X the points!
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale + additional 20% off + 30% off your purchase
  • Banana Republic Factory – Friends & Family Event: 50% off purchase + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 50% off select styles + extra 50% off all sale
  • J.Crew – 30% off tops, tees, dresses, accessories, sale styles + warm-weather styles
  • J.Crew Factory – Shorts under $30 + extra 60% off clearance + up to 60% off everything
  • M.M.LaFleur – 25% off travel favorites + use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – $64.50 spring cardigans + BOGO 50% off everything else

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

171 Comments

    3. I can never open the sponsored links. It may have something to do with my office’s security settings though.

  2. I’m looking for recommendations for a new toner, something that I can buy at a drug store/target. My skin is both acne prone and pretty sensitive. I just bought a clarisonic and really love it, and right now I’m thinking about switching my skin routine up a little bit to go with it. At this point, after years of struggling with it and a few rounds of medications, I rarely get breakouts any more, but I still feel like my skin is oily looking and my pores are big. I would really appreciate any thoughts about toners or skin care routines in general, thanks!

        1. Seconded. It’s recommend on Into The Gloss all the time, and I bought it based on those recs.

      1. I have oily, somewhat sensitive skin and get good results with the P.C. BHA exfoliant (2%). I also use the clairisonic a couple of mornings a week and the exfoliant most evenings.

      2. Second that. I use AHA and Vitamin C (Ole Henriksen) but I’ve found a few drugstore products in Europe as well. I love glycolic acid, but if your skin is really sensitive you may have better luck w products containing lactic acid.

      3. Do you know if its possible to buy something similar that is less expensive? This sounds interesting to me but its way out of my price range, especially after splurging on the clarisonic.

        2. I like Jan Marini cleanser. It’s $17 and is glycolic acid. I only use it twice per week because any more is too much. I have acne-prone, really sensitive skin, but it clears my skin and helps with clarity, evenness and pore size. You can get it on amazon.

          It’s not a toner though, but it definitely makes my skin baby soft. It has a bit of an odor when you use it (sour milk smell due to the acid), but it doesn’t smell once you rinse. HUGE FAN.

  3. I have recently come to realize that I am not great at meetings. I am a second-career associate and in my first career speaking at and being impressive at meetings were not valued skills and so were skills I did not develop. I would love some advice on how to shine/be more impressive at meetings where I have a brief moment to provide case updates or speak about marketing efforts.

      1. Yay! Fruegel Fridays! I love Fruegel Fridays AND Ann Taylor! Great Pick Kat, tho this is strictly NOT for work!

        As for the OP, Wildkitten is right. You do NOT have to swett the detail’s if you practice with videotapeing. When I was in Law School, I was PETRIFIED about standing up before a judge (even in MOOT court) and argueing my case. So we all got video taped and saw what we were doeing wrong. I was playing with my hair and saying UM and YOU KNOW alot more then I should. So I was told to 1) keep my hands away from my hair and 2) put my hair up (or back with a schrunchie) and 3) practice talkeing slower so that I would NOT have to fill time with UM or YOU KNOW.

        The teacher also told me to dress more conserveatively in court (which lesson I continue to practise). I even tried to teach Alan Sheketovits how to be more natural, but he NEVER took any of my advise to heart. FOOEY on men that refuse to take valueable advise from us profesional women!

        So at the end of the class, I took all of the advise and continue to use it, and today, I am told I am a natural both in court and in CLE presentation’s, which I am very natural. When I was at the Bar Association CLE with the manageing partner, his name was on the program, but all the attendees came up to ME afterwards to ask question’s, and none of them stared at my boobie’s, which is what Frank assumed. Of course, that is all he seem’s to think of each time I go in for reimbursement when I get clothe’s that Kat recomends on Corporete. I do not care b/c since comeing here, I have Kat’s implicit approval of all of the clotheing I put in for. If Kat recomends it, it is dificult for the manageing partner to say it is NOT apropriate. YAY KAT!!! And the manageing partner is hardley complaining b/c he also follow’s the judge’s taste and recomendation’s. Right now, I am busy lookeing for conservative suits WITH shorter skirt’s to wear when I have court appearenaces this SUMMER! DOUBEL YAY b/c I get nice clotheing and get reimburesement for most of it now! BTW, we found out from the Judge’s clerk that he was NOT in yesterday b/c he had the runs. I am sure it was the restrunt. FOOEY! We will NOT go back there even if we got the lunch special again! DOUBEL FOOEY on bad slimey chicken or any other food that you have to pay for.

        This weekend we have to come into work to pack, and I can wear jeans and my Nike Air’s. The judge say’s it is better if we pack then if we give it all over to the mover’s who he says’ often pocket thing’s and break things. I also do NOT want them goeing thru my shoe’s which I leave here. There are SO many men with foot fetishe’s in NYC. Even Alan liked to play with my shoe’s and my toes in bed. He was strange, Myrna says, and now that I meet other men, I agree. YAY!!!!!

    2. I’m not a natural public speaker, though have forced myself to improve. for me, I try to make a few well thought out points (and sometimes write out in bullet points/think ahead and practice in my head what I’m going to say.)

    3. The most important is preparation – it’s one thing to know that you know the status of everything, it’s another to concisely update a group. Come to meetings with bullet points prepared and actually practice your updates once or twice out loud first, which will help you avoid awkward pauses, phrasing, or tangents.

      1. I also think part of preparing these bullet points is figuring out how much background you will need to give to the particular audience to get them to understand your update. Sometimes in the interest of being concise, I omit background details and then have to go back and start from the beginning/some earlier point for context.

    4. I think don’t focus on shining or being impressive. Focus on being prepared and being concise

    5. This book is a little pricy, but I cannot recommend it more highly. The author, Mary Munter, was my Management Communication prof in b-school, and while the book is thin, it is fantastic. Spring for it, and I also recommend her other book (also thin, slightly pricy), Guide to Managerial Communication. Alums would always come back and tell us it was the most important class they took in school, in terms of advancing their careers, and I would have to agree, now that I’ve been out for a few years.

      http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Meetings-Business-Communication-Series/dp/0130338567

        1. Another suggestion: The Confidence Code by Cara Hale Alter. Practical, very detailed hands-on tips for exactly this issue – appearing more authoritative/confident. Alter’s advice is gold, for any situation from chit-chat in the hallway to jury trials and in between.

  4. What are some of your favorite current/upcoming trends? Each year I try to add something new to my wardrobe that might be slightly outside of my comfort zone. Some of them stick around (skinny jeans are now a wardrobe staple), some of them don’t (the romper I wore several times and then gave away). Nothing has really jumped out at me yet for this year, so I’m looking for ideas.

    1. So this is definitely outside my comfort zone, but I’m going to give it a try: crop tops. I was persuaded at Madewell to try one on, and it seemed to be more like an overlayer than a super-short top that was ridiculous and I would never wear (which is what I had expected). I plan to wear it over a tank top. I was also somewhat inspired by a poster a number of weeks ago saying all the fashionable folks in Paris are wearing straight jeans rolled with crop tops.

    2. Does it have to be clothes or can it be shoes?

      If shoes, what about a mule? I bought some funky gold plates ones from Zara, thinking it’d be a one season thing….turns out I wore them all summer last year and will continue this year.

      Or some gold/silver espadrilles?

      1. Are you finding mules comfortable? I really like some of the heeled ones but I just don’t know if they’ll stay on my feet.

        I also want a longer crop top – I think it would look really cute over a high-waisted skirt.

        This isn’t a new trend but I’m also looking for white jeans.

        1. They were flats and they were moderately comfortable. Let’s say, an 8 hour walk though Paris was survivable but not super pleasant towards the end. But that might just have to do with that I never walk 8 hours in any shoes.

          White jeans => I’ve had surprising good luck w Mango in 2013 and they’re still in my closet.
          Especially curious since they were rather cheap.

          1. And a possible ammendment to my earlier comment and inspired by Diana Barry. I think browsing through Pinterest / fashion magazines often inspires me to re-shop my own closet and pair things in unexpected ways that feel fresher without breaking the bank.

            If that doesn’t work, I love this white leather pleated midi…

        2. I love my white jeans. An indispensable staple for summer. I had a pair in 1994/5, and then got rid of them (a shame, too–they were Gap white denim. Eyelet. I loved them). Then, for a while, I had a pair of white Gap chinos. They were awesome too. Wide-ish leg, crisp white stretch cotton. Then they got too big. I was white-pantsless for years.

          Found a pair at a thrift store last year, and can’t believe how empty my life was without them.

      2. If we’re talking shoes – I want to find a pair of loafers that work on my feet. (I have wide-ish metatarsals and an extremely thin heel, so it’s difficult)

          2. Basically I feel like all Born shoes work for my narrow heels, but have room in the toe box. Especially since most of their flats have a slightly higher vamp, so that helps them stay on. I really like the Adele flats, which are now called the Lilly I believe. My loafers from them are older, so not for sale anymore, but I tried on a pair, I think it was the Dinah loafer? And they fit great, I didn’t buy them because I didn’t need another loafer right now.

            I also have a couple pairs of Born oxfords that are super comfortable, the Mott.

    3. Things I have noticed this spring:

      – floral (large print) dresses
      – crop tops (know your age/trend level for this one!)
      – jumpsuits
      – oxfords
      – platform sandals with sneaker soles
      – all white outfits

    4. Overalls are coming back, apparently. Madewell has a good looking pair.

      I’m into the crop top thing but my boyfriend is uncomfortable with me wearing them around him because of the attention he thinks they receive. I’m kinda surprised by this position but it is what it is.

      2. I just saw a girl in black overalls. They had skinnier legs than the ones I wore as a pre-teen but still, I don’t think I’ll ever be ready to be go back there.

          3. Ugh, I know! Working on a university campus, I’m constantly confronted with weird and wonderful fashions.

        2. Excuse my while I hyperventilate into a paper bag. I can get on board with some trends from my youth, but no overalls. Ever.

        3. Same here. I’m also feeling bearish on the comeback of mules, mostly because of the won’t-stay-on-my-feet aspect.

          ETA: I am totally on-board with crop tops and rompers and jumpsuits. I bought two rompers and a jumpsuit this week for an upcoming vacation.

          1. Mules for me bring back memories of Candie’s with wooden bottoms circa 1978. Of all trends from the 70s, 80s and 90s those Candie’s were far from the worst. And unlike most mules, they sort of stayed on your foot too.

      3. I like the overalls. I’ve been seeing them on fashion blogs for a while.

        I’m not so fond of the crop tops this time around. The longer crop with the higher waisted bottom leaves only a strip of exposed skin, so it is easier to wear than the early 2000s Britney Spears type crops that were very short and paired with low cut bottoms, but I just don’t find the current iteration of the crop to be flattering on anyone. The older version with more skin exposed is harder to pull off, but it looked sexy and athletic on people who had fairly toned midsections.

    5. Culottes, paper bag-waist pants, 70’s inspiration (including platforms), blouses that tie at the neck, and yes, marsala.

    6. Lots of great ideas here! I think a jumpsuit is the most appealing, so I’ll have to shop around!

  5. Am I blind? I cannot see mint. Oh no, is this another blue/black or white/gold dress situation?

    1. Did you click the link and then the magnifier? That’s the only way I see it.

    2. I can see the mint in the closeup picture on the s!te. I really like this cardigan but cannot justify another spring/summer cardigan {sighing sadly}

      ETA: Kat, I see from the link that this is Loft, not Ann Taylor flagship as the link sort of implies. Feeling slightly better about not buying because Loft doesn’t fit me as well as AT.

    3. I can’t see the mint either, even on the close-up. Maybe this is like that blue/gold/white dress that caused such a stir a few weeks back??

      1. It’s really hard to see – it’s like there are pale mint splotches in the background of the cardigan.

        2. Oh thank goodness. I can see the splotches, now that you mention that they’re pale splotches, and not the actual background color.

          1. I see it on the Zoom in magnifier, but mostly close to the bottom next to the black bottoms, so higher contrast. Very subtle…

  7. What is the difference between the Marisa and Julie fit in Loft? Either I am a complete idiot or they don’t have it listed on the website. I am not seeing a description of the fits. I haven’t bought anything from Loft in a long time (like, since before the rebranding) but I like those windowpane pants.

    1. Marisa is for ladies with a straighter figure, and Julie is for ladies with a curvier figure.

      ETA: the windowpane pants were really cute in the store. But they only had the Marisa fit, and I’m a Julie.

      1. FWIW, I’ve tried on Marisa suiting pants and they were not for my straight figure. The thighs and behind were very large and bagged on me, even though the waist fit. I think they would still work for a curvy figure, despite Loft’s claim.

    3. Loosely related: I have one pair of Loft pants in a “Zoe” fit, for straight figures. However, Loft seems to have pretty much discontinued this fit? Upsetting, because I think that’s the only pair of Loft pants that have ever fit me.

    4. Yeah, the Loft website is useless with regard to details between the two. I just tried on both fits last night. The main difference I noticed was that the Julie fit was more loose in the thighs. I’m 5’0″ around 125 lbs and the 6 petite was a bit snug also the rise felt short and was tight around the crotch. I prefer the Marisa because it was a bit more fitted in the thighs. Also, I’m an hourglass–is shape. I’m going to see how the 8 petite workd.

    1. Office No – the opaque portion is too short. Too bad the whole thing isn’t lined – otherwise that’s the most office appropriate lace I’ve seen!

      1. I think you’d have to try it on to see where the lining ends – might be closer to the knee IRL. Then you could have the lace portion hemmed to just a couple of inches, and this would be a gorgeous skirt…

    3. No, even in my business casual office. It looks like it has a fringe on it, and the lined part is too short.

      1. I’m wearing a denim-ish pencil skirt today, probably a no but that’s what it is.

        1. this. I’m wearing jeans today just because I feel like it. that’s what I love about being a lawyer. you can make your own hours/rules/etc. yesterday I worked from home, just because I felt like it. but earlier this week a wore a suit (with ankle pants) when I had to go to court. and every single day this week someone has told me how much the like my outfit (in fairness, yesterday it was my 4 year old.)

          2. “that’s what I love about being a lawyer. you can make your own hours/rules/etc. yesterday I worked from home”

            Lol.

          4. Since when do you get to decide your own court dates and what you want to wear in court? I’d like to wear yoga pants to court and have everything start in the afternoon so I can sleep in. Teach me your secrets.

          5. Not every lawyer gets to do it, but I too largely set my hours and choose what I wear. I don’t get to telecommute but nobody cares whether I come in at 8 or 10. I also set my own hearings and trials so get to tell the judge whether a date is good for me.

      1. I go gaga over the women’s fashion on “Suits!” Oh, to be a tv attorney.

        1. If I had the money, I would actually dress like Donna every day in my current life. But I wish I was bada$$ enough to be/dress like Jessica. Swoon. Plus Gina Torres is so amazingly gorgeous I just can’t even.

          Rachel has amazing clothes, too though.

  9. Grr. I had a bunch of things that I wanted to add to an amazon wishlist for future orders, and I was thinking about them last night. Should have added them when I was thinking about them, and now I have no idea what it was. I hate when this happens.

    How is your friday shaping up?

    Secondly, what apps do you use for grocery lists/coupons/etc?

    1. So we just got Google Express (it is only in limited areas for now) and I LOOOOOOOOOVE it. LOVE. IT has Costco *and* you can use a credit card for your Google Express purchases, whereas you can only use debit card if you buy at Costco stores. They also have Ulta (!) and Walgreens and some other stuff. I use it for all those errands that I forget – like face wash etc. – and TP and diapers and seltzer and all that stuff that is heavy/annoying to get yourself (esp if you are going to Costco with kids, like I always am!).

      1. I am sure this isn’t in my market–is it anything like Amazon prime pantry or subscribe & save? I’m curious!

    2. I have a tendency to scribble down notes in the middle of the night only to find they are illegible in the morning. I use evernote for most things, especially when I use the last of the flour or need cat food.

      I watched the solar eclipse from my office window, had lunch with an old colleague (who I hated for the first year and learned to like) and am trying to crank out a bit more work before home time.

    3. I used to use the stock Apple Reminders app for my grocery lists, but I’ve just moved to Android and had to find a new one. I picked Our Groceries, which has the new-to-me feature of being able to sort your list into categories. I really like it.

    4. I just use a Google keep widget on my phone (Android) for most of my checklist items – one is a running grocery/drugstore list, another is a to-do or to-pack list, another is a running Target/Amazon list, and a running presents to-buy/already purchased list.

      I also use Amazon wishlists as running lists of presents to buy, or things I want to buy myself and in order to share suggestions to my sister or mother-in-law – handy since you can also add blocks of text to say something like “Lego Technics” or “Lincoln Logs” or “The Magic Treehouse Series” instead of linking to a specific item.

      I also sometimes use Paprika’s grocery list feature, because I am migrating more and more of my dinnertime recipes there so I can just click “add to shopping list” and get all the ingredients added to my grocery list in one swoop, plus as long as I open it from the parking lot it still works in my grocery store, which is a cell phone dead spot for me.

      I’ve also started a “clothes for me” secret Pinterest board to keep track of items I either see online that I’m interested in, or that I try on in-store but I’m not willing to pay full price for so I can sale stalk them.

      1. Tell me more about Paprika…

        Do you have to pay for it separately for each device ($20 computer, $5 app, etc)?

    5. I forget those things all the time. I use Evernote too bc I can do it on my phone or on my computer if I think of something at work. altho when I’m at home and about to head to the store I still scribble a list on paper, and hope I actually put it in my pocket instead of leaving it on the counter.

    6. My husband and I use the outofmilk app. it syncs to our phones so we can both add to it and see the updated list.

    7. I use Wunderlist for all my lists, including groceries. You can share lists with other people, so my husband and I have a shared on for groceries. I like that it has apps on multiple platforms and you can add descriptions/notes and assign tasks to people.

    8. Well, it is being just a bit of a clusterfudge. First, clouds cover the solar eclipse. Then I wake up late and rush out of the door to get to work late… Only to discover I have no voice and I took the wrong laptop with me, and had to go back home for the right one (I have too many ThinkPads in use).

      And, turns out that if I cross my ankles, my new shoes squeak like whoa. D:

      I am gonna just… order in spicy japanese soup for lunch and hope today will be over soon. Mayube window shop a lot.

      (for groceries and other regular shopping stuff, I keep a gmail draft that I send to myself before I head to the shops. BC, lazy)

    9. To seek out deals/coupons, I use flipp – you can “clip” the coupons or ads you want and compare between stores side by side.

      For notes and to-do lists at home, I use Any.do (it reminds you every morning to go through your list and either postpone or say you’ll do it today). If i want to jot down something fast but don’t want to write it down, I’ll go to Google now, click the microphone, and say something like, “Remind me to pay rent tonight at 8” – she’ll ask to confirm and you just say yes and at 8 pm, a notification comes bugging you to pay your rent.

      For grocery lists, I use the safeway app, because that’s where I clip just for u coupons, and you can add custom items to the list as well. I always keep a physical list on the fridge though, so I can jot down something I need on the list when it runs out, and then just copy the list into the app when I get around to going to the store.

      There is a nice “food planner” app that lets you store items into a “pantry” and into a “grocery list” so you can choose which items you are out of stock on and need to buy. You can also make recipes and plan meals for weeks, and ingredients from the recipe are crossreferenced with the items in your pantry, and the recipes are crossreferenced with the meals you plan, so you can always have a set “menu” to pick from depending on what groceries you have.

  10. I need a black jacket / sweater to wear over a DVF dress (office is freezing). Cotton seems odd next to silk knit, as does worsted wool or any of my blazers in suiting fabrics. I’m thinking of some sort of fancier sweater or knit (or other fabric) jacket (so many something in a St. John vein, without the gold / buttons / overly St. John vibe). Does anyone have any recommendations? I have a merino Charming Cardi from Talbots that is worn to the point of being a weekend sweater and if it were in better shape would be about 65% of what I am looing for.

    1. I have a black cotton sateen jacket that I wear with a Tory Burch silk jersey dress, the sheen makes it work together.

  11. So, unfortunately I had to resign via email yesterday. I would have preferred to resign in person, but my boss and the HR person are both on vacation, so there was no one to speak to (my boss doesn’t have a boss, so I couldn’t have given my resignation to my boss’ boss). I have been under strict instructions since I started work here never to call my boss for any reason, and only to contact her via email, so resigning over a phone call was not an option. I couldn’t wait until they are back from vacation, because my employment contract requires 30 days notice, and I had to give notice yesterday in order to get my 30 days in before I start my new job.

    This morning I got a one-word response to my email: “Sorry?”

    I’m flummoxed on how to respond, or if I should respond at all. Help?

    1. “As I mentioned yesterday, I have accepted a new position and have given my 30 days notice. I would have preferred to do so in person but since you are out on vacation I needed to let you know ASAP. I’m happy to discuss further by phone any time today.”

      What did you say in your first email? When is this vacation done?

      1. Anon, you did exactly the correct thing and anonymous has the best answer – if either HR or your boss want more background, they can call you to discuss. Otherwise you met the terms of your contract.

      3. In my email I said I was providing notice of my resignation, my last day would be X, and I would be happy to do everything I could to ease the transition.

        The vacation is technically over on Monday, but my boss often doesn’t come into the office for days despite scheduled events and without explanation so I couldn’t be sure when she would be back in the office.

    2. Very passive aggressive reply designed to fluster you and make you feel guilty even though you haven’t done anything wrong.

    3. Anon at 10:48 gave the perfect response and based on your other comment, it sounds like this will be a healthy move for you, if this is how your boss is.

  12. Does anyone have the Lo & Sons TT bag?

    Almost ready to pull the trigger, would like to hear any negatives. I like the OG and OMG (have friends who have them), but TT is a better shape for commuting on public transit for me, and I need a new black, workhorse bag.

    TIA.

    1. I have it. It is definitely a good shape for commuting on public transportation. I found that the narrowness meant that it was sometimes hard to fit things (like my lunchbox, if I had multiple containers). The opening is not that big compared to how tall the bag is, so sometimes it is hard to find things that sink to the bottom, and it can be even harder if you have a laptop in there. If I travel with it and have my laptop in, I don’t count on being able to easily access things in the main compartment (it has a lot of nice pockets both in the main compartment and on the front, so not a big deal, but a consideration). It also does not stand up that well on its own (if you try to set it on the floor next to your chair, it will usually flop over, in my experience). So those are the negatives I can think of, but I don’t regret buying it. Don’t use it as an everyday bag anymore because of changes in my commuting habits, but definitely got good use out of it.

    2. I have the TT.

      My only complaint is that given the dimensions it doesn’t seem to hold that much stuff. Typically I carry the following and it is pretty full:

      14 inch ultalight laptop ( in the laptop section but without doing the little leather latch because it seems pointless)
      Computer wireless mouse and charger
      Wallet
      small bag of cosmetics
      small umbrella
      keys and key cards for work
      cell phone
      a couple of legal pads and a few documents to read – maybe 1-2 inches thick

    3. Thanks, guys! I was worried it was too thin bc it doesn’t have a gusset, and you confirmed my suspicions. Need to think on it before sale is over. I kinda want it in a fun color, and they don’t have any fun colors right now :(

      1. I have the TT and originally found the lack of gusset annoying, but got used to it after a while (or maybe the fabric softened up a bit and now it’s just easier to open the bag a little wider than before). I use it for taking stuff back and forth from work (laptop, mouse, files but not large binders). You can also close the bottom zipper on the sleeve that’s designed to slip over your rollerboard handle and use that as a pocket. For travel, I use an OG because it fits bulkier items like snacks, makeup, etc. better.

  13. What do you think about longer blouses just tucked in the front, hanging down in the back, with slim cut pants or skinny jeans (if okay in your office)? I find that look is very flattering, but not sure if its office appropriate. I’m thinking just Friday casual, but still.

  14. I have quite a bit of student loan debt ($70k left- I’ve paid off 40k in the last two years). I have savings as well, and no CC debt, and don’t live extravagantly.

    I was recently reading on reddit’s personal finance area about one guy who would have broken up with his girlfriend had he known about her student loans.

    How much do you judge a potential mate on their financial situation? When do you start discussing finances with someone you’re dating?

    1. My concern would be more about why the person has debt and what s/he is doing about it. Ran up the credit cards and ignoring it – pass, because that doesn’t match how I deal with money. Student loans and working to pay more than minimum – not a problem for me. So, more case-by-case for me, then “no to all debt”.

      And 40K in two years – that’s fantastic!

    2. I would judge a potential mate who had a lot of debt and wasn’t trying to reduce it. But otherwise I don’t think it would be important.

    3. I’ve read similar stories, the the dealbreaker was usually that the SO didn’t disclose the debt, rather than the fact that the debt existed in the first place. Full disclosure is key.

    4. When my fiancé and I started getting serious, meaning we were exclusive and clearly heading toward the point of moving in together even though we hadn’t started discussing it, I sat him down to disclose my debt details. I had mentioned having lots of student loans but never told him the number before that. He was shocked (it is over $200k) but it didn’t make him question our relationship. I think the key is to just be honest about it. Trying to hide it is bad for everyone involved.

      1. I am in the same boat as you (over $200k) and this is the correct response. My SO handled it the same way. He is not thrilled, but it is what it is and I am actively working to reduce it.

    5. This NYT article was a real eye opener for me. I though about it, and true, a lot of debt is not an attractive quality in a mate. However, if you really like someone, you get over and work through it as a couple. My brother married my now-SIL despite her underwater condo, student loans and 20K+ in CC debt (all acquired while a public defender). She became financially responsible once she left the public sector for a higher-paying job, and she aggressively paid down her debt. And he finally helped her sell the condo, despite a lot of cajoling.

      Here’s the article: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/04/your-money/04money.html?_r=0

    6. So I was the mate with about 30k in cc debt. When my then bf (now hub) and I started getting serious and talking about moving in, we sat down and had a conversation. Fortunately, I had already realized the error of my ways and was in the process of paying it back. We discussed it in terms of my budget and how it would impact us as a couple (moving in, nights out, etc). He is super frugal so he was a little blown away, but told me he felt good about it because I had identified the cause and was working to fix it. Student loans (have those too) were a bit different because those were a necessary evil, but we talked again about the impact on our budget etc. I’d say it was one of the things that brought us closer together and made us think about our long-term future, and we got to have the money conversation early on, which helped contribute to our success as a couple.

    7. I think of student loan debt and all other debt very differently. I don’t think having that amount of student loan debt, which paying down well, as a negative at all. Having substantial credit card debt would be a very different story.

      I think this is somewhat based on the era I graduated in & the fact that my spouse, most of my friends, and I all went to grad school and created our student loan debt when you could do so at low interest rates. Since I graduated in the mid-2000s and my current student loan interest rate is around 2% (I know, I am GD lucky), and DH is in a similar position, we’ve been paying off loans but never made it a huge priority since we know our potential gains on our money are larger than the interest rate.

      ETA: ITA with Brant’s post below, and even go so far as to say that as long as someone’s student loan debt came from a professional degree and is in a job field that will (eventually) allow them to pay it off, and they ARE paying it off, I consider it entirely neutral unless we’re talking about $150K+ of debt.

    8. Red Flag: “I have 110k in student debt and I am a barista”
      Yellow Flag: “I have 110k in student debt” OR “I have 70k in student debt”
      Huge Positive (to me): “I had 110k in student loan debt that i incurred to get [x degree]; it was a huge investment and I’m super anxious to get this monkey off my back- I’ve paid off 40k in the last two years and have a goal to be debt free by [date]”

      I actually see the 3rd as a positive- I value someone that makes an educated investment and is paying it off rapidly, recognizing that not all debt is bad, but shouldn’t be left to linger.

    9. When I met my now-fiance, he was 6 months out of business school and had close to $200k in student debt. We obviously weren’t discussing the nitty gritty of our financial situations early on in the dating process, but we spoke in generalities and he did let me know that he financed both his undergrad and graduate educations on his own and was paying off his student loans. He was fortunate to land a good job after graduation and was highly motivated to a) earn more money and b) be student loan debt free, so it didn’t concern me too much. If he didn’t have either of these qualities, or had paid $200k to get a graduate degree in a field like modern dance or basket-weaving, I would have been a lot more concerned. Now, four years later, his student loan debt is almost completely gone and he’ll be completely student loan free at year end, which is so exciting.

      It was also important to me that he wanted to tackle his debt on his own. I have no debt (thanks to my parents for paying for my education) and pretty significant savings, but he never once asked me for help paying it off. I offered to help out, as we got more serious, just so it would be completely gone, but what’s remaining is at such a low interest rate that it barely matters whether he pays it off now or in the next year or two, and he insists on doing it himself.

      Also, I view student loan debt much differently than credit card debt. If someone’s up to their eyeballs in CC debt, even if they have solid earnings/earning potential, that’s a huge turn-off.

  15. A few mornings ago, there was a long discussion on social anxiety, and it got me thinking about how anxiety starts. I’m curious whether people think that they were “born” anxious, or if certain things in childhood/young adulthood exacerbated anxiety? Or possibly both? I’m interested, as I can’t remember not being anxious about certain things – but I wonder if I would be better able to deal with it, had it been addressed as a child.

    1. That is a good question. I remember in kindergarten i was super anxious because we had to do these needlepoint projects… basically needlepoint a design onto a little plastic square using yarn. I would cry whenever it became time to work on our projects. To this day, I have no idea what caused that!

    2. I’ve been anxious as long as I can remember. I definitely think I was born anxious, and that my family situation exacerbated it– I had a harshly critical extremely high standards mother and an alcoholic father. By the time I was in high school, I was having multiple panic attacks a day, but I never told anyone about it because my mother doesn’t believe that mental illnesses are real.

      My sister was not born anxious, and though our situation growing up affected her, it didn’t make her anxious– in her it manifested in depression. Both she and I have gone through therapy as adults and both took medications for a year or two. We are both doing better, but I am still anxious.

      I don’t necessarily think I would not be anxious if I had a different situation growing up, but I think it would have been really helpful to have someone in my life I felt comfortable talking about my fears with. The book “How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk” has been enormously helpful to me, both as a parent and as a human being with friends and relationships. It basically talks about the fact that starting from childhood, anytime a child expresses a negative emotion (fear, anger, sadness), we as a culture try to deny and suppress it instead of doing the hard work of listening or talking it through.

      1. Thanks for mentioning this book. Ireally do believe it can be a game changer for many many people, not just those with anxiety disorders.

      2. That’s really interesting. I will definitely take a look at the book. I agree that it’s not really discussed. I can remember feeling what I now understand is anxiety, but never discussing it with anyone. I just sort of assumed that’s how everyone felt. I like the idea of learning how to start the conversation with children, as I want to equip my kids with the tools to deal with it (assuming they have it) or possibly prevent it from happening at all.

      3. Thank you for the book recommendation. Anxiety runs in my family, and while I seem to have not gotten an extreme dose of it, I can see many signs in my oldest daughter.

        1. If you don’t mind sharing (or others), I’d love to hear what signs you have noticed in your daughter. There seems to be a common theme that anxiety goes unnoticed in children, so I’d appreciate hearing how you’ve picked up on your daughter’s anxiety. My children are still young – but I sometimes wonder if my 2 year old’s near constant refrain of “I don’t want to go to school” is anxiety based? Asking the question “why not” or “does it make you sad?” just gets the response “I just don’t want to.” Teachers universally agree he is fine in the classroom, and he runs off to play without a second-glance at me once there.

          1. It definitely could be. No kids here, but I was an anxious child. Instead of “Why not?”, can you say, “tell me more.” One is less confrontational.

            PS – My teachers didn’t know or pick up on my anxiety either.

          2. She always had trouble warming up to and getting involved in activities (gymnastic classes etc.) but I didn’t think too much of that, more that she was very shy. She also has always been a very sensitive girl and takes things very critically. The signs I’m noticing are now that she has started kindergarten- she is doing tremendously well but she worries that she’s forgetting homework and that she’ll get answers wrong. Her teacher told me that she erases her correct school work numerous times in order to make sure her handwriting is perfect before handing it in. She has always been more serious than other kids her age, but now I see that she is worrying a lot more about these things and realizing that it is not normal for a child her age.

    3. I do think anxiety runs in some families, and circumstances can elicit or exacerbate it.

    4. I think it’s some of both. For me, and I don’t know how universal this is, my anxiety (GAD, OCD tendencies, panic) is over and over born from unexpressed feelings (particularly shame, anger, fear, and frustration) that flash through my mind and leave anxiety in their wake. When I can tune into these feelings, I do very well. I grew up in an environment that was not well tuned into how to deal with these emotions constructively and others have these same conditions. So I believe environment built on genetics.

    5. I don’t know whether I’ve always been anxious, but I know that things in my childhood exacerbated it in measurable ways. I recently made a list in my journal of all the things I didn’t do because of things my (borderline abusive) brother said to me (singing, wearing form-fitting clothing, exercising…) and it was stunning how many things there were. My mother said it was my fault for being so sensitive in the first place, though. So I don’t know.

    6. I’m not sure about being born with it, but I do remember being anxious a lot as a very small child (pre-school age, some of my earliest memories are of fear in social situations). The post earlier this week prompted me to take some social anxiety assessments online. While I am managing it better now, if I answered the questions based on how I felt often as a child /teen it became very clear I had much worse social anxiety then. Made me feel a little frustrated that no adult in my life noticed or talked to me about it, or sought help. As a child I assumed it was normal to be terrified of everything. Turns out maybe it wasnt.

      1. My inlaws are anxious city, to the point where people who are hard-wired to have anxious tendencies are on an endless reinforcement loop (a child coughs: HE MUCH BE CHOKING; you struck out: OMG, EVERYONE IS SAYING BAD THINGS AND YOUR COOLNESS IS RUINED; you shouldn’t apply for a job unless you’re perfectly what they want b/c OMG THEY WILL THINK YOU ARE SO STUPID).

        This thinking has become completely normal to them and paralyzing (one sibling never leaves the house and has friendships only on the computer).

    7. Both. Definitely.

      Most medical/physiological changes are due to a combination of genetics and environment. Some of our genes increase our probability for developing certain traits/diseases/developmental pathways, and that probability can often be altered by our environment. “Environment” can be anything from the food/chemicals we eat and are exposed to, as well as the socio-economic-familial environment we live in and more.

      The classic example…. take identical seeds. Plant some in dry, shady soil with poor nutrients… and compare them with seeds planted in rich soil and different sun exposure. Compare the plants that grow. The differences can be stunning.

      I’m simplifying things, but its true.

      Ask your parents…. how much of my personality could you “see” when I was an infant/toddler? You may be surprised by what you hear….

      I freely admit that I am on the anxious range of the spectrum, like the poster from yesterday, and am very high achieving and very very hard on myself. Some of this I can trace to behaviors I remember in myself as a very young child, and wonder… how much was I born with? However, my childhood was very unstable… my parents had a terrible marriage and there was emotional/verbal abuse, daily instability, and many horrible things that my brothers and I experienced and suffered through that I am not comfortable sharing online. Add to that being a shy, not typically attractive girl with bad skin who was “smart”….. that then suffered additional sexual abuse as a young child…… I was scared of everything. Pain was common every day. How can that NOT effect your development?

      Some days I’m amazed I am as functional as I am, despite my childhood.

      I look back now and realize how damaging my childhood was in my development. Even though I “know” (assume?….) relationships, parents, friends should be different than I saw growing up …… how can you forget the experiences you lived through? It is very difficult for me to relate to some people who have never suffered through real hardship… who have no idea what it can be like to live in instability. It is also very sad to me when I see how some people who grow up in sheltered, “happy” homes/lives have no empathy for those that do not. They just have no idea, and cannot relate. Maybe I cannot blame them for that. It’s still too bad.

      One day at a time. If things are hard, try to reach out for help.

    8. I don’t feel like I had anxiety as a kid, I definitely felt it “come on” when I was older (30’s?) and started feeling anxious about things that didn’t bother me as much before.

      But I did learn a lot from the book the Highly Sensitive Person by a psychologist, Elaine Aron, about what she calls the sensitive personality, and a lot of that was manifesting in my childhood and the book helped me reframe many things. And my mom has also read it now and thinks it also resonates with her and what turned into anxiety for her as an adult as well. I think because my mom was also sensitive, she helped me when I was y0unger by validating my feelings and letting me ‘not like’ things even if I sometimes had to do them anyway. But I highly highly highly recommend those books, especially for parents.

    9. I was definitely anxious as a child and I worried about everything. Even things that were clearly not my responsibility. I think it got worse when my parents divorced and my mother became severely depressed. I was in middle school, but had to do most of the child care and household stuff for my younger siblings. I am still anxious but have a more stable life now, although everyone would describe me as a huge control freak.

      I can see similar “traits” (not sure what to call them. . .) in my six year old son. He gets nervous before any new activity and asks multiple times a day “what are we doing after this.” He really likes to know what to expect. He can handle changes in our routine if he knows what is happening. I hope that because our home life is different than mine as a child that things will not become harder for him, but rather he will just be the kid who doesn’t like surprises ;)

  16. Regular poster, anon for this… sorry in advance for the novel.

    I am not close to my dad at all. He and I had not spoken in over a year, but I got a phone message from him last night with news that his second wife had passed away earlier this week. My dad is not mentally well and is a currently sober alcoholic/rx pill addict. He is homebound because he is unable to drive anymore due to some medical problems. He and his second wife had separated prior to her death, but they were not divorced. He’s being cared for by a woman in the neighborhood, but I think most of his finances were being handled by his wife. The wife doesn’t have any children, and I don’t know about her extended family situation.

    My mom and my dad still own a house together, though my dad’s wife also owned a home, which he lived in until they separated and he moved back into my parents old house. From a legal standpoint, what does my mother need to think about, if she is going to step in and try to help my dad? And what, if anything, does she need to do to protect herself from him not being able to manage his finances? Basically, what I’m worried about is that in the divorce agreement, my dad agreed to eventually sell the house he’s living in to pay for my mom’s new house. We all expected that my dad would die first, and that mom, and the second wife would have to sort everything out. Now that this has happened, we are at a loss.

    Any general advice on how to handle a situation like this?

    1. Did Wife (will refer to her as Wife and your mom as Mom) have a will? What other assets did she have?

      If Wife owned her home AND THERE IS NO WILL, it will automatically pass to Dad on her death. Your dad needs to find out whether his wife had a will, since that will determine how Wife’s house passed. He also needs to find out whether there was a mortgage on that house and whether he can assume that mortgage or will sell the house.

      Does the divorce agreement put a time frame on the sale of Dad’s house? (I assume Mom is no longer living there now?) Your mom is the one who would want enforcement of the divorce agreement to sell Dad’s house with the proceeds going to her – she can bring a contempt petition to force the sale of Dad’s house.

      If Dad can’t handle his finances/property, then you should become his POA. (Don’t let his caregiver be named his POA.) Then you will be able to make decisions re: Wife’s house, Dad’s house, etc., and help your mom out.

    2. In no particular order, and I have never done any of these, so FWIW:

      – Does Dad have long term care insurance?
      – Is Dad claiming Social Security yet? If so, how does he claim/should he claim: through himself? through a wife (which one)?
      – If Mom cares for Dad, can she get paid/reimbursed for doing so (by insurance? by SS? from Dad’s savings?)
      – Does Mom lose any benefits (govt, alimony, otherwise) by cohabiting with Dad?

      And, frankly, if I were Mom, what does Mom want? Because I can tell you, I would not want to be spending my golden years taking care of my former husband after his second wife died and he came back to me. Of course, I may lack compassion, so YMMV.

      1. Oh, no, she doesn’t want to help in a nursemaid kind of way– she lives 1,000+ miles away, and I don’t see her coming back to help him on a day to day basis. I meant help him get his finances in order.

  17. I’m going to have a conversation later today with my big boss to ask for a bigger raise. I just got promoted, and my raise was anemic. I’m still 10% below the next lowest paid person in our division with my title, and 20-25% below market rate.

    I appreciate any advice for countering arguments such as: we didn’t have a great year last year/the economy still isn’t that great (see above for market rate comparison); you’ll get bigger increases in the future to make up the difference between you and your colleagues (none of my colleagues started this low at this title, also my previous two annual raises have been <1% and 2%); any other nonsense he can throw at me about why I should be satisfied with what I got.

    1. I would check Ask a Manager for good ammo–you don’t have that much negotiating leverage if you accepted the job and payscale and budgets may be fixed for some time. Your boss can either promise to lobby harder for you or tell you that it’s out of his hands.

      I would also think of non-monetary ways to be better compensated–more comp/vacay/PTO/holiday, more leeway for professional development spending (conferences or whatever is common in your industry), promise to revisit the discussion in 6 months, etc.

      I would also focus on what you bring to the table and have the argument be more about market v. your other coworkers. It should be about how awesome you are, not that you feel underpaid relative to them, if that makes sense. Talk about your value, responsibilities, etc. GL!

      1. I’ve been at this company for 8 years. Started at the bottom and am now in middle management. So part of my argument (I probably will only hint at this) is that they’ve been lucky I’ve never objected to my pay in the past. I’ve always been at or very near the bottom of every pay band, and never said anything before.

          1. I was always within a couple (1-3) percent of someone in my title in my division. Now that gulf has widened to 10%, and that’s just way too much. They’re just taking advantage of me at this point.

        2. I think you can hint at that point, but it’s the wrong approach because, as the others have commented, this is about your value to them now, not rectifying some moral wrong from the past (even though it rightly feels that way to you). If you want to go there by implication, it should be that now that you are experienced, they should pay for that experience and institutional knowledge because that is value that they can’t get from any other stranger on LinkedIn. This also suggests that you have the experience to explore other options, which is what he should respond to if he doesn’t want to lose you.

          1. Completely agree, and well articulated. I was thinking of phrasing it along the lines of, I’ve worked on a lot of great stuff over the years, and am now moving into more substantive roles on projects. We’re just getting to the good stuff (i.e., using all of that institutional knowledge to now pay off in big ways).

    2. Are you awesome? List more reasons about being awesome than about comping to your internal and external peers. List your goals and what you’re doing to work towards them. Ask for a review in, say 2 months after this conversation.
      Feel free to job-search during those 2 months. But, once you have an offer from somewhere else, your boss will probably say, “Bye Felicia”. Is your name Felicia? It doesn’t matter in this case.

      1. I am awesome! I will definitely list the reasons.

        There is some precedent in my division for people (a) pointing out they’re way below market rate, and getting a bigger raise to partially make up the difference, and (b) going out and getting a competing offer, thus bringing up their salary here. But neither of those methods is foolproof. I’m currently exploring (a), and will move onto (b) if (a) doesn’t work.

    3. Best advice I have ever heard re: negotiating for a raise: “I was hoping for a salary increase in the neighborhood of X because of (1), (2), and (3).” And then stop talking. Do not fill the void. Say your position with confidence and be done. If your boss comes back with “the economy is poor,” I would respond with: “I believe I deserve the raise because of (1), (2) and (3).” And then stop talking. Good luck!!

      1. Likewise, the “stop talking” advice helped me a lot too (or, end the email, as the case may be). Make them either accept or give a concrete counter-offer.

        1. While I agree with this advice, I did this twice (at different jobs) and was surprised when the counteroffer was nominal (e.g., my request for $20,000 more a year was met with an increase in $2,000, and an argument about how it would not be fair to others if I were outside of the band of associate salaries).

          1. Yikes! That’s extremely disappointing. I’m looking for a raise (on top of the one I just got) of between $9k and 19k, but would likely settle for $6-8k for now because that would at least put me in line with a couple of my colleagues.

          2. I did this, and the response was “No.” When I asked why, the response was “Politics and optics.”

    4. “My salary is not anywhere near market rate. I need to be at a company that understands the value I bring and compensates me accordingly. What needs to happen to bring my compensation up to market rate ($X)” And if they don’t give you a raise, start looking. But know that this conversation may result with you needing to find another job to get to market rate.

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