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Updated: Nov 15, 2021 516 Comments · by

Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Lucie Tie-Dyed Silk Crepe de Chine Dress

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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A white, blonde woman in a tie-dye midi-length dress with long sleeves and carrying a yellow purse

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Tie-dye for work? Have I fully lost my mind? Maybe, but this dress from Altazurra is so gorgeous, it’s worth it. The tie-dyed pattern is meant to resemble “ocean waves lapping against a sandy shoreline,” and I think it really nails it.

I would wear it with chunky knee-high boots for an office with an artsy vibe or heels on a day when I had to attend an event after work.

The dress is $1,795 and comes in French sizes 34–44 (roughly US 0–12).

This Adelyn Rae dress is a more affordable option at $112.50; it's available in sizes XS–XL. Karen Kane has a tie-dye burnout dress in 1X–3X that is $71.75.

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Sales of note for 9.30.24

Sales of note for 9.30.24

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

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About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Diana Barry

    What is that extension/tool/s i t e that tells you when something goes on sale? I am hoping to snag a black friday sale for something one of my kids wants.

    • London (formerly NY) CPA

      For @maz0n I use the plug in called Camel Camel Camel. There was one other I know called Shoptagr but it’s now called Karma.

  2. Another COVID Q

    DH and I have been taking fairly significant COVID precautions because I may be immunocompromised. Late last week (after a large in person work gathering) I came down with a slightly sore throat, low grade fever, and fatigue. By yesterday I had body aches and chills. I would describe it as feeling like a very mild flu, if that. I seem to be improving, but DH is now showing the same early symptoms I had. We’ve both taken rapid COVID tests with negative results. He’s supposed to fly out for a conference tomorrow. That’s a no go right? And if he doesn’t go and we plan to quarantine either way, is there any reason to go get PCR tests?

    • Ribena

      I would get PCR tests. If you do test positive it gets you on your doctor’s radar and may help you access any further treatment you need.
      If you test negative but are still unwell, it will also help you access any treatment you need

    • Anon

      So you are seriously asking if your sick husband should fly to a conference and potentially expose everyone on the plane, in the airport, and at the conference to whatever he has?????

      • Anon

        What’s with the nasty tone from some lately?

        Someone doesn’t feel well and asked for advice. Apparently this poster has never had brain fog from not feeling well…. or compassion.

        Same guidance in nicer words?

        • Anonymous

          Yes it is! If I catch your cold, it becomes bronchitis. Or what if it’s strep?

          • Anon

            Everyone else in the universe is not obligated to sequester themselves forever because of your particular set of health problems! I don’t know why this is so difficult for some people to understand. It’s not like we shut down the peanut industry because a small number of people have peanut allergies. This is a society, we’re all living together for the COMMON good. No one person gets to prioritize their needs over the needs of literally everyone else! And a need to make a living is an important need.

          • Anonymous

            To the LOL anon: Found the person who gave me strep on my last flight before the pandemic!

          • Anon

            We quite literally stopped serving peanuts on flights; please keep your contagious pathogens to yourself!

          • Anon

            You got strep. That’s treatable with a visit to the Minute Clinic. We don’t serve peanuts on planes because of the risk of a problem in the sky; we do, however, serve them in a host of other areas and haven’t banned them from society.

            You’re more than welcome to move to a bunker in rural Montana if you want zero risk of harm from other humans. Otherwise, understand that living in a society means being exposed to the flu, colds, strep, chicken pox, and whatever else goes around.

          • Anon

            Why should we not achieve a society without flu, colds, strep, and chicken pox going around? “Why should we exterminate rats? Plague is a part of life!” We can do better.

    • Ses

      I would get the PCR test just to know, since it gives you information about your immunity and how you handle the virus… but yeah, he shouldn’t go to a conference with a mild fever regardless of whether it’s Covid.
      I think that’s one of those things where it’s an obvious answer when it’s someone else, but when it’s you, you find reasons to go anyways. I struggled with it myself when I had cold symptoms – I almost talked myself into going to a social event before I snapped out of it and took a rain check.

      • Anon

        This is not accurate at all. PCR tests do not give you info about how you handle the virus. Some results are only positive/negative. Some tests give you Ct values that loosely reflect the viral load, but that has nothing to do with immunity and how you handle the virus. The big advantage of a PCR test is the increased sensitivity and specificity compared to the rapid antigen tests.

        • Anon

          I think Ses means that a PCR is more accurate (though thought that was only true if asymptomatic?) and if OP gets a positive test then she can make decisions about her own immunity down the road (natural immunity + booster). I don’t think she meant to say the PCR gives you information about the virus itself.

          OP, he should stay put. Get a PCR today and hopefully he can fly out a day late. I’m in Mass and we have access to free PCR testing that is pretty consistently less than 24-hr turnaround. Hopefully you have access to similar resources.

          • OP

            Thanks I did not realize this was a thing and after looking the closest place that has this is about an hour and a half away. The local places say 2-3 days.

          • Anon at 8:33

            Our place says 24-48 hours, but it’s consistently at 3pm test and results before I wake up the next morning, like 5am. I’ll be interested to see how it gets backed up with the presumed thanksgiving rush this week and next, but clearly the test itself doesn’t need 24+ hours to process. It’s just about volumes and administrative stuff. Go get the test, regardless.

    • OP

      Just to clarify DH doesn’t have a fever, just a mild sore throat and light aches. In pre-COVID times it wouldn’t even be enough to stay home from work. I think that he shouldn’t go, but I wanted a gut check before I take that position since I suspect he’s going to face pressure from his boss to go anyway.

      • Anon

        Mild sore throat and light aches and he tested negative. It could simply be a cold virus that he recovers from in 24 hours with rest, chicken soup, drinking lots of fluids and taking Vitamin C. Can he leave for conference 1 day later? (Delay his departure?)

      • Anon

        Fwiw I’ve noticed a lot of us getting sick as we RTO. I still think staying home is the right move when not well but acknowledge that’s not always possible. Some people are don’t have that choice.

        Regardless of if you are feeling well or not (some people are carriers of flu cold covid without symptoms) Please practice good hygiene and general thoughtfulness.

        • Anonymous

          “Some people don’t have that choice.” There are many, many people who think they have no choice but to show up to work sick who actually do have a choice. Most of the people reading here fall into that category. White-collar workers with PTO have no excuse for exposing others to any sort of illness. It doesn’t matter whether you are a doctor, a litigator, a judge, a teacher, etc. If you are sick, you need to stay home. Period. No one is indispensable. If you’ve got clients in custody who need bail reviews, a colleague will just have to cancel her less urgent calendar and take over. Until the people at the top of the food chain start asserting themselves, the toxic and dangerous culture of presenteeism will continue.

          • Anon

            Define “sick.” If I break my leg, I’m going to work. If I have the sniffles, I’m going to work. Flu, chance of COVID, etc? My butt stays home.

          • Anon

            Sorry, I am never going to burn multiple PTO days because I have a slight sore throat and a sniffle I can treat with DayQuil, cough drops and a humidifier. What you are suggesting is completely unreasonable, and ridiculous on its face. As a species, we have always lived with circulating minor illness and we always will. Add in that with some illnesses you’re most contagious before you show significant symptoms and the argument that “even people with very minor symptoms should always stay home” becomes even more ludicrous. Please, I’m begging you – come out of your bubble (maybe literal?) and live in the reality the rest of us live in. You’re demanding that people understand you but you’ve made no effort to understand us, and that’s where the continued conflict is coming from.

          • Anon

            Your asinine argument that a cold should be the cause of staying home actually undermines those of us who would like to normalise staying home when you have the flu; it’s so stupid that it makes adjacent but not-stupid proposals looks stupid by association.

          • Anon4this

            I’m a lawyer and don’t have sick leave — its not a benefit my firm offers. We just get “unlimited” vacation. I can work from home and I do but we are also expected to be back in the office fulltime. I have a toddler so I basically nearly constantly have her sniffles. I can’t just not go to the office between November and March, I’ll lose my job.

      • Anonymous

        In DH’s shoes I would lie/fudge a little and say I had a fever in addition to sore throat and body aches. The right answer is he should not go. If his boss is not going to accept “I’m sick and it’s a pandemic so I can’t go” then he should feel free to exaggerate his symptoms.

        • Anonymous

          I have a sinus condition and also allergies to many things, so it takes a fever or a significant downward change in my normal symptoms to flag illness vs gunky. You’re not going to get gunky from me. You could catch an illness that I have.

    • Anon

      So rapid tests are very effective for symptomatic people. Given that, odds are decent that you don’t have COVID – but to the point others have made, you really shouldn’t expose other people on the plane to whatever you do have (eg flu, RSV, etc.). I’d probably see if a doctor can do the combine PCR/flu test for you guys, because the people for which you are contagious is not the same between COVID and flu.

      • Anon

        I thought OTC rapid tests were reliable for symptomatic people as well but we had a COVID outbreak in my small office. About 7 vaccinated people (5 double vaxxed) eventually tested positive on a PCR test but tested negative on rapid Binax tests. They were all symptomatic but mildly so. So I lost trust in the over-the-counter rapid tests.

        • Anon

          We’ve used them effectively in my family (they identified that we were positive when we had only mild symptoms).

      • London (formerly NY) CPA

        My friend recently tested negative twice while symptomatic followed by a positive 3rd result later in the week (all rapid tests). They give very few false positives (if you test positive, you’re positive), but lots of false negatives (if you test negative, you’re not NOT positive).

        • Anonymous

          Your friend is . . . Jen Psaki? This sounds like her almost: repeated negatives before popping positive. I think she had a family exposure but that is dedication to testing. Last year when I was exposed I waited and then got one test (I know it’s different now with more rapid testing that is also apparently better).

    • Anon

      I would get a PCR test and then decide based on how he would make the choice if it was a cold/flu/something else. I’ve noticed in my circles a lot of us have been coming down with colds/random other winter bugs that we’d avoided while not seeing many people. I wouldn’t go, if only because he’ll likely be miserable, and I think if you’re sick, you should stay home if you can, but I get that might not be possible in his work situation.

    • Anon

      Don’t go to the conference, but I’d just test again at home in a few days. The at home test false results generally happen only when you’re asymptomatic. Since you and your husband have symptoms, they’re probably correct that it’s not Covid. Colds are still going around.

      • Anon

        Test again and switch to a different test, to ensure that you are not getting a faulty reading from the same test batch.

    • Anonymous

      If your husband has a low-grade fever, sore throat, and fatigue, he shouldn’t be flying or attending a conference whether or not he tests positive for COVID. Good Lord. Have we learned nothing?

    • Anon

      I am so sorry to have read this thread and found out what a bunch of selfish a-holes a good percentage of you are.

      • Anon

        Every accusation is actually a confession.
        Also, no one’s forcing you to read or post here, just FYI.

      • Anon

        See, I come away from this with the observation that wow, there are a lot of people who can just take a sick day for minor symptoms without majorly inconveniencing others who would have to scramble to cover for them? Good for you!

        • Anonymous

          If people started staying home when they were sick, employers would be forced to come up with better plans for coverage.

          • Anon

            Yes, one of the many things the pandemic taught us is that it’s a good idea to have more people working fewer hours because then they can pinch hit in a crisis. For a long time even our hospitals have been trying to get by with as few staff working as many hours as possible, and it’s wrong what people who are trying to help have been put through as a result.

    • Anon

      Yes, it’s a no go and get PCR tests.

      Hope you feel better soon.

      Reading this thread (not your comment OP) makes me realise why there are so many deaths from Covid in the US. Sad.

      Please don’t travel while sick.

    • Jz

      Yes, I would. When I had Covid, I got a negative rapid result and positive PCR

    • Anon

      I like this. I love the teal/bluish color, and I really like the caplet back. It would have to be a lot less expensive for me to go for it though.

      • Anonymous

        +1 , I think it’s gorgeous. But Altazurra would need to add a size for it to work for me.

      • Anon

        This is gorgeous and I would be sorely tempted if it were $300, even though I never buy dresses that expensive.

      • Anon

        I think this dress is gorgeous! I would wear it to an evening event… if I had any to go to, which I don’t, haha.

    • AIMS

      I think the slits and the completely open back (under the capelet) disqualify it as office attire, putting aside any issues of tie dye appropriateness.

      I have to say I am sometimes surprised by the stuff that gets posted here. I understand office standards vary and I get that it’s impractical to actually see in person all the things that get recommended (although, boy, would that be better!) but I am always shocked when stuff like this slips by and isn’t even addressed. It just feels a little sloppy, like someone can’t even bother to zoom in before recommending a $1700 dress. At least say, “know your office, but maybe wear with black tights and a tissue thin turtleneck.”

      • Anonymous

        In my city, I think it’s a power job move to dress very creatively (like this dress maybe minus the back stuff). Like showing that they can do what we peons can’t. [Sigh. I miss suits. So easy.]

        • AIMS

          But then shouldn’t the featured dress be an actual power move? There are plenty of expensive dresses without thigh high slits and bare back flaps.

      • Anonymous

        Good catch – I didn’t watch the video and didn’t realize there was no back!

      • Anon

        Good catch – I didn’t watch the video and didn’t realize it was backless under the caplet. Whoops!

    • anon

      This is so beautiful, I love it. Not in my budget nor do I have anywhere to wear it right now, either, though.

  4. Bay area recommendations

    Hi hive, I’m going to be in the Bay Area for Thanksgiving without my kids. Suggestions on what to do and where to eat? Also really confused about what to wear as it seems cold but nobody seems to think it gets that cold!? Will it be too cold to go biking/hiking? I’m coming from the warm South so not great at being outdoors when cold.

    • Anon

      As someone wo has lived in North Carolina and California, I actually think November weather can be fairly similar. It’s usually fairly warm during the day (as long as it’s sunny- if it’s raining or foggy, it will be colder), but chilly at night, so you’ll want to be prepared for a range of temperatures. It’s perfect weather for hiking! Definitely bring a hat if you’ll be outside where it’s windy and a light puffy jacket for early morning or evening, but hiking during the day could be shorts weather, depending on where you are and how warm you run.

    • Anonymous

      Too cold to go biking/hiking isn’t a thing ? the colder the better!!

      Are you meeting friends or going solo? I’d probably go down the coast and add whale watching into the itinerary because they’re migrating. I can respond with a lot more specific recs if you want outdoorsy or historical stuff!

    • Anon

      Oh it’s cold! I do t know who you’re talking to! It’s not wear long underwear cold, though. My uniform of sort is jeans, booties or sneakers, layers on top of a sweater, fleece, blouse, and topped w a puffer (I’m partial to Uniqlo because they’re lightweight and pack easily. Take a scarf. But hiking and biking in this weather is sheer perfection – it’s naturally cool and you won’t overheat. For that, I just wear leggings, athletic top, and puffer vests. No need for gloves or a hat, you’ll roast.

    • Anonymous

      For hiking, you just need full length pants and a couple of top layers: shirt, windbreaker and a light puffer.

      • Anonymous

        Way too much – I see people hiking on the trails in the Bay Area when it’s 60 degrees out wearing everything you described and I don’t know how they’re not dripping sweat. A long-sleeved workout shirt or a T-shirt plus light workout hoodie is more than enough for active activities. A puffer can be nice if you’re doing a very slow walk along the beach on a 50-degree day, though.

        • Anonymous

          If she’s in the redwoods or at the coast, she will deeply regret dressing as you suggest.

          • Anonymous

            I don’t think so! I’m in the redwoods and on the coast ALL the time and perfectly comfortable in what I suggested.

      • LaurenB

        Agree. You’ll wind up taking the puffer on and off. Honestly whether it’s sunny vs cloudy or windy is more important than the actual temperature.

      • Anon

        Haha no. Leave the puffer. Most people hike in some sort of athletic top and a fleece layer that they end up tying around their waist as they get a sweat going.

        If it’s not raining, it will be perfect for cycling or hiking around thanksgiving.

        It doesn’t get COLD cold here. It has been mid 60s to low 70s during the day lately, just colder at night than it gets during the summer. But a freeze at night usually warrants a newspaper headline that says FREEZE, and it usually doesn’t happen every year (which is unfortunately why I can’t grow tulips except as an annual.)

    • Anon.

      There’s no such thing as 50-70F being too cold for outdoor activities.
      Dress in layers, but not too many.

      Signed, a Midwesterner who went out in snow yesterday.

      • Anonymous

        Agreed. There is TRULY no such thing as 50 being too cold. If it’s 10 below zero, you have permission to go for a short walk instead of a long one – dressed appropriately, of course.

    • Anonymous

      On where to eat, I would hop on OpenTable. Most good places are already fully booked.

    • Nesprin

      It’ll be in the 40’s-60’s (colder on the peninsula, warmer elsewhere) and probably drizzly- we’ve had a wet year. Not too cold for outdoor stuff, but possibly too wet- depends on your tolerance.

    • TR Wexler

      Pre COVID Thanksgiving weekend was a great time to travel to San Francisco because a lot pf the city traveled out of town for the holiday. I would look through Eaters latest restaurant guide and see where you can snag a reservation Friday – Sunday.

    • Anon

      Note that for indoor dining in San Francisco, proof of vaccination will be required.

  5. Anon

    Help me find an item?

    I’m looking for v neck t shirts and turtlenecks size 14 to 18 depending on stomach (some medical issues, causes wide change in size) due to same medical issue I have the prednisone bump at top of my back and self conscious about it/ don’t want anything tight around throat.

    Appreciate the help!

  6. Gift Hater

    To those of you who give gifts against the recipients wishes, can I ask why? I want to understand why you don’t think those wishes should be respected? Or do you think they’re insincere?

    • Anon

      I suspect that some of it is that many of us are socialized so heavily to give gifts in particular circumstances that it becomes profoundly uncomfortable not to give a gift in those circumstances. The fact that the person has said they don’t want gifts wars with a perhaps lifelong socialization that arriving at a wedding/birthday/housewarming without a gift is deeply rude. That kind of programming is not easily undone.

    • Anonymous

      To those who refuse to participate in normal social conventions like allowing people to show their love and good will through gift giving at specific times, why? What is so hard about saying thank you and moving on with your life?

      • Gift Hater

        It’s mostly social and environmental. As I age I realize how consumerism has seeped into society and often acts as a proxy for genuine connection. I just don’t want goods produced through labour abuses and environmental damage to be purchased on my behalf.

        • Anonymous

          I mean I personally would get you nothing. But I think you are closing yourself off to people’s love and care because it is imperfect. “Genuine connection” isn’t a switch everyone can flip, and not being up for ten minutes of uninterrupted eye contact doesn’t mean there isn’t a value in that connection. If you don’t want goods bought for you, could you try identifying a) things you use up and that need to be replaced, b) things that come from organizations doing socially responsible work, c) experiences that matter to you (museum membership? Tickets to a show?), or d) a charity you really care about?

          Obviously yes some people are going to ignore all that and get you soap and yes we all agree that’s not great. But a “yes and” starts a connection in a way “no nothing” ends it.

          • Anon

            Exactly. I don’t need more “stuff,” so I ask for things like wine, whiskey, chocolate, fancy candles, products from Lush, compression socks for running, museum memberships, expensive hair clips (Ficcare), jewelry that my friend makes and sells on Etsy….

          • Senior Attorney

            Agree. And also, Gift Hater, you surely must realize that you are coming off pretty darned high and mighty here. I feel like shaming people who want to express their love for you isn’t the best look.

        • Anon

          I don’t need ‘stuff’. For so many reasons. At the same time, I will tell you that your response is something that – although factual – will be read by gift givers as ‘stuck-up’ or a ‘superiority complex’ or you being ‘difficult’. I agree with your point, but even I recoiled at your response here.

          Can you give them an alternative? “I truly don’t need or want anything – I am so lucky to have everything that I want. If you truly must, what would bring me great joy is giving school supplies to the local elementary school/donating dog clothes to the local shelter (helps get dogs adopted by making them look cute on the web/ I’m collecting socks and gloves for the local homeless shelter.’

          Give them a way to meet their need to give something physical (which I don’t get, but I recognize is a THING for some people) without compromising your personal needs. All my suggestions are things that add nothing to you and meet a need that already exists.

          • Anon

            I hate clutter and extra stuff, but I’m always ok with receiving gifts (even if more than half of them end up donated or returned).

            However, for those of you who “don’t need stuff” ; I’m sure there’s something you could use? Stuff gets used up or worn out. Could you clear out all of your old socks and ask for new ones this year? Stocking stuffers are a great way to replace toiletries, makeup and nail polish. Upgrade from the Target candle to a fancier one? Nice olive oil you wouldn’t buy for yourself?

            My Christmas list this year is exclusively replacing things I have that have worn out: a new black crossbody because mine is flaking, a new pair of joggers because my pair has a hole, a new sweater dress because mine no longer fits. I tell my mom exactly what type of toothpaste/deodorant /razors/makeup I use so she knows what to get for my stocking. My dad pays for the family Spotify subscription as a Christmas gift every year. My aunt usually gives me fancy tea, handmade soap, and fun spices. My other aunt gives me smart wool or darn tough socks.

            It’s all useful things that I need that I could buy myself, but it’s nice to have someone else buy! And, if it’s being purchased as a gift, its likely nicer than what I’ll buy myself (smart wool socks as a gift vs a multipack of Hanes for myself)

          • anon

            This. My MIL is a huge gift giver, and there have been times when I wish she just wouldn’t. But it’s important to her, and my relationship with her is more important than having a totally gift-free holiday. I have channeled her energy into purchasing things that I need to replace anyway or are consumable. Think calendars, notecards, dish towels, favorite coffees and treats, wool socks. She also asks for ideas for our kids, and I make sure to include a mix of fun things (because grandparents DO want to buy toys) and stuff that they really need, like a new winter-weight sweatshirt or backup gloves and mittens. When I learned to accept that gift-giving is how she rolls and stopped resenting it … well, my heart became a lot more grateful. I know that sounds trite and cheesy, but it’s true.

          • Cora

            Yes exactly, these are the types of gifts my family and I give each other. I think make up or skincare is a great gift if the recipient uses theirs up, as well as nicer versions of things that they use already. Crossbody bags, lululemon etc leggings, smartwool or other fancy socks are perfectly common gifts that I don’t think will be wasted.

          • Anon

            I also don’t like “stuff” gifts, but I try to accept them with the giver’s intent in mind, which is almost always just to express that they love me. My mom gifted me some pajamas and a workout t-shirt for my birthday that were not to my taste, but I knew instantly where she got the idea to give them: from things I had told her about during our talks. I don’t wear the items very often and likely they will get donated soon, but I’m not going to throw my mom’s gift back in her face and tell her to stop giving me things. Her feelings also matter and I feel like acknowledging her intent is the right move, vs. upholding any philosophical principles I have (or just my desire not to have “stuff”).

            I feel like this is another issue, like many on this board, where there is way too much overthinking going on. Someone gives a gift you don’t like. You don’t have to think intently for long periods about what the gift means or if it entails an obligation or how you communicate your deep philosophical commitment to the environment to the person so they won’t give you more gifts, etc. Just say “oh, thank you so much!” and move on with your life. If you can use the gift, use it. If you can’t, regift it, sell it or donate it. If someone asks you later “where’s the gift I gave you” you can say “oh, so sorry, it got lost/misplaced/broken/stained.” Absolute scrupulous honesty in every single situation is not necessary for human existence to continue, and actually our society was built on small courtesies and “little white lies” that often obscure the way we sometimes truly feel for the sake of sparing other’s feelings and smoothing over interactions that would otherwise become contentious. This is called “tact” and and I understand it seems like a dying concept but it’s actually pretty essential to our society continuing to function. I feel like it’s weird I have to say that on a board populated with educated women who have good jobs where ostensibly, etiquette, tact, judicious use of words, and good judgement have been required for people to be successful.

        • Anon

          So the thing about gifts is that you don’t control them. That’s what makes gifts different than obligations. You can indicate your wishes when offered an opportunity to do so, but ultimately gift giving is a relational activity, so it’s about both the giver and the recipient.

          If gift giving is not a means of genuine connection *for you*, that’s fine, but it is for many people.

        • anon

          +1 I don’t need or want more stuff and I find it incredibly wasteful. I’d be perfectly happy with a charitable donation made in my name but that doesn’t satisfy some people for a reason I cannot understand.

          • Gift Hater

            I often ask for charity donations too! Doesn’t work out often and I’m a terrible actress even though I try to give a good performance of ‘wow thank you’.

        • Cora

          It depends on the occasion. I definitely would find it rude to now show up to a housewarming, or to peoples house in general, without something. But I would also try and make it something they will really use or consumable, even if its not flashy. Picking out the gift and thinking of what the person wants is the genuine connection and love.
          Maybe you get and give a lot more gifts than me, but I’ve used most of the gifts given to me recently (birthday / housewarming, especially the housewarming ones), and I know that gifts I’ve given have been used too.

        • Anon

          How old are you? It sounds like you’re the kid in college who first realized there’s social injustice in the world, but you haven’t yet learned about what it actually means to be an emotionally intelligent person.

    • anne-on

      I don’t do this but my mom is infamous for it. In her mind she’s finding something ‘just as good’ and it’s ‘a much better deal’ (think subbing in thinner scratchy Macys merino wool for a requested cashmere sweater). Or she’ll see a toy/game that is on sale at Target and will grab it because its ‘close enough’ to what kiddo is interested in – like Marvel legos instead of Minecraft legos because ‘legos are legos’. In my case she’s both not interested in shopping and is a narcissist so thinking of others and putting them first are not her strength.

      • hair

        I remember when a “friend” told me not to buy her a Stanford sweatshirt as a gift for her unless I was going to buy her the$50 version when all I could afford was the $20 version. I felt terrible, and I avoided her from then on. We aren’t friends anymore.

        I assume there is a lot of backstory about your Mom/your relationship, but the substitutions you describe here are exactly the kind of “substitutions” mother would do. And she is a good, not narcissistic person, and is honestly trying her best.

      • Seventh Sister

        This kind of behavior is why I’ve completely stopped asking my MIL for anything specific for any family member. She can’t resist a “bargain,” even if it’s stained, stale, an objectively awful color, or incompatible with any current technological device. If you ever wondered who buys those stale prior-year Xmas cookies at TJ Maxx and Ross, it’s my MIL.

    • anon

      I can’t answer for myself but my mom claims it’s because she likes the tradition of Christmas gifts and wants us to open stuff together. I would be happier opening a card that says which charity she donated to but since she will at least stick to a list I have given up that fight.

      As an FYI, there are people who love giving gifts but who also respect when people say no gifts. I know, because I am one.

    • Anon

      People I know who do this usually do it as a means of control: they know you don’t like it but put you in a situation in which you look like a huge jerk for stating the exact same thing you’ve stated before.

      I went vegetarian about twenty years ago. My family did not like this, but I was an adult so there wasn’t much they could do. I can’t tell you how many “special birthday dinners” were to places that didn’t have vegetarian entrees. Which meant that my birthday was an opportunity to remind me how “high maintenance” my dietary restrictions are.

      • Anonymous

        Wow. Life is going to be difficult for you if you always ascribe ill intent to people this way.

      • Anonymous

        I think we might have the same family. So much constant malice for not confirming to their ideals.

      • LaurenB

        Oh please, you can get salads or pasta just about anywhere. You can be the kind of person who rolls with it or the kind of person that makes a fuss. It’s not like a food allergy.

    • Anonymous

      Because your widely broadcasted attitudes about being too good for our gifts, or about the holidays being too commercial, or you being more green than the rest of us can ruin the entire event for the rest of us. Just say thanks and donate the gift. Just like I say thanks to invites to dinner where they serve meat, have fun, and don’t try to turn everyone else vegetarian. A large social event should not turn around you.

      • Gift Hater

        That’s the thing I don’t care if OTHER people do gifts, I’m happy to sit around and watch people who want gifts open their gifts, just don’t give them to me too.

        • Anonymous

          Really? Or do you actually find it difficult to watch atrocities and human rights violations manifested in physical goods being passed between people you are supposed to love but can’t because they are immoral?

          • LaurenB

            Oh look! We’ve found the perfect person! Hope you walked to the Christmas gathering, sure hope you didn’t drive or worse yet fly.

      • Anon

        Yeah, I had this reaction too. Actually mine was “phew, I’m not friends with people who are this self righteous.”

        • Gift Hater

          Do you really think it’s self righteous to not want to hurt people in developing nations?

          • Anonymous

            I didn’t think you were excessively self righteous until this comment but clearly you don’t care to make this work and want to be difficult.

          • Anon

            I was sympathetic to you until this comment. Now I think people are giving you gifts specifically to spite you because you sound terrible.

          • anon

            Why not ask a local charity or shelter what tangible items they need – and they always need something – like women’s underwear, dish towels, soap, shampoo, etc., and make that your gift list? Then, the gift giver has something tangible to buy and hand to you, and you can say a genuine thank you upon opening and receipt, then immediately drive it over to the shelter and drop it off.

          • Anon

            I prefer that my kid have toys that are made in ethical factories, even if that means fewer toys. So **I** did the legwork to figure out which brands produce sustainably and ethically, then suggested those to the in-laws. They got to give Kiddo toys that are a hit (winning) and I feel good about the toys (winning). Cost: me living up to my own ideals and being willing to take an hour or two out of my day to do some research that I probably should be doing anyway.

          • Anonymous

            Do you really think cutting off commerce is the way to help people in developing nations?

          • Anon

            Do you use a bank account? Great, your money mingles with terrorist financing, drug trafficking, and money laundering. Do you use medicine or makeup or household cleaning products? Great, probably animal testing. Do you eat meat or eggs or dairy? Great, cows kept perpetually lactating, chickens in sad conditions, beef off to the slaughterhouse. Do you shop at major fashion retailer? Congrats, hard to know the provenance of cotton, it could be from Uzbekistan, where people are forced to pick cotton and local elites profit. Do you use an iphone? Anything with a lithium battery? Drink Almond Milk?

            It is basically not possible to live in this world and not be morally compromised. It is self-righteous (and naive) to think you are doing the world a favor by going all-in on not being polite and taking the gift someone just gave you and donating it to a women’s shelter or community center. Unless you are Amish, we’re all part of the problem in one way or another.

      • No Face

        I never want gifts, but if someone gives me a gift I say thank you and give it away. It’s not for any of the reasons you named either – we just have so much more stuff than I would like because young kids require a lot of stuff and I am tired of spending so much time and effort organizing and storing things.

        I think the question is directed towards people who give a gift after people explicitly asked them not to do so. If you know for a fact that someone doesn’t want something, why do it anyway?

          • Anon

            In your case, I honestly would not be surprised if people are doing it because they know it will upset you. If you’re as combative and self-involved with the people in your life giving you gifts as you have been in these comments, I would understand why people would move into an opposing obstinate position and continue to do something they know you don’t like just to get your goat. If that seems nonsensical, most of human behavior doesn’t make a ton of sense, but you aren’t going to change gifting culture (which goes back thousands of years in our evolution) because you, one person, does not like it.

    • Anonymous

      Viewing ALL gift giving as a respect issue is a good way to make yourself really unhappy. Don’t read in disrespect where someone is sincerely trying to show love in the way they know how.

      I hear you that gift giving can be a way to disrespect boundaries, though. Gifts given with strings – like here’s grandma’s Hummel collection that I expect you to display and will comment on every time I come to your house. Or putting yourself in the middle of a couple – I know you and my son are fighting over space in the garage so here’s a table saw and lots of other equipment that can’t be stored anywhere else so guess you’re finding somewhere else to park after all.

      • Senior Attorney

        Haha my paternal grandma had a Hummel collection and she loved them (“they’re just so adorable!”), and my mom HATED them (“they’re so ugly — she only likes them because they’re expensive!”). Good times, man. Good times.

    • Anonymous

      Like others have said, you can’t control the giver. All you can do is control what you ask for and how you respond. Try “I really don’t need any more ‘stuff’ this year – I actually have all I need! I would love a nice bottle of wine, though, or a gift certificate to the spa.” Then when someone gives you the wine AND a pair of cheap fuzzy socks from Target, you say “thank you, these are cute” and donate them if you don’t want them. Is it annoying? Yes. I don’t like being given an errand either and I understand not wanting more cheap crap that wasn’t produced in any ethical way. But you cannot control the giver without wrecking the day for everyone – what are you going to do, throw the socks down and say “I SAID I didn’t want these!???”

    • LaurenB

      Is there a reason you are addressing readers versus just having a convo with the person / people who bother you in this fashion?

      • Notagirl

        Spot on. I think OP is just venting, and the manner of their venting does not bode well for any real-life conversation on that topic.

        OP, what exactly is bothering you with the person or persons on your mind who do this? if it’s literally everyone in your life, the problem is you. If it’s a specific person or persons, the problem is likely way more than the gifts.

        • Anonymous

          I disagree that this is venting. I view it more as peacocking. Or educating. She doesn’t really want answers to her question. She wants all us “gifters” to know that no gifts is the morally superior position going forward.

      • Gift Hater

        I’m venting here because it’s not really appropriate to discuss irl beyond sending a polite no gifts email/text and I truly want to know why people will agree to no gifts then go back on their word. I was venting to my mom about my grandma (one of the biggest offenders) and my mom was absolutely horrified to know that I pre-plan fake reactions for comfort. My mom seemed to get it but that level of honesty is not appropriate for anyone but my mom.

        • LaurenB

          Omg. Ask for consumables (nice shampoo, makeup, fancy coffees) or experiences (museums, plays). Say thank you and move on. Life will be better once you change your mindset.

        • Notagirl

          Thank you for answering. From your reply it sounds like there are deeper issues at stake here. Don’t ignore your feelings, and dig into why it’s such an issue with your grandma (to the degree of even requiring pre-planned gushing reactions…) Gift-giving rituals are a notorious minefield when there is any family disfunction. For the rest of times when it’s just an inoffensive mismatch between your love language and theirs, there is a lot of great insight how to handle it on this thread.

          In a nutshell – why? Either because they love you or because they want to control you. If the former – it is not gracious to try to control how they expeess their love so suck it up. If the latter – listen to your gut and draw boundaries where the deeper issues are, the gifts are just a symptom.

          • Gift Hater

            I think it’s control to at least some extent. If I don’t have a gushing reaction AND send a gushing thank you card there are consequences. My one cousin was literally uninvited from this year’s Thanksgiving for offending grandma. (Cousin lives across country and obviously can not fly with huge gifts)

          • LaurenB

            Have you ever considered the script from grandma’s POV? Do you otherwise feel grandma loves you, cares for you, etc or is this just emblematic of a long standing beef with grandma?

    • Aunt Jamesina

      I think generally you just have to say thank you and move on. As a really picky person who isn’t into gifts and is trying to get away from buying stuff, I get the frustration. With close family, I make it known when asked that I’m not into gifts and try to steer them towards consumables and experiences, but it doesn’t always work.

      My mom especially will ask for what I want, then lose her mind over a “good deal” and I’ll end up with a bunch of junk that costs as much as (or even more than) what I suggested. She asked me what sort of clothes we wanted for our baby, and after I said we preferred gender neutral items made of cotton and that we were mostly set with enough newborn stuff, she got us… an enormous box of cheap poly newborn clothes. I don’t get it at all, but I dropped off nearly all of them at a donation center ASAP. I figure gifts like this have the best chance of being serviceable to someone else if I donate them new than if I keep them around for a few years out of obligation. Beyond thanking the giver and appreciating the spirit in which the gift was given, I don’t have any other obligation to them or the gift.

    • Anonymous

      Because you’re asking them to change their actions based on YOUR value system, and people don’t readily do that. Parents and grandparents, especially, don’t readily change what they do because their child ask/tells them to. It’s even more difficult if what you’re asking them to do (give money, don’t be generous, don’t give a gift) directly cuts across and violates their own value system. And it’s even more difficult still when your reasons (giving gifts oppresses people in undeveloped nations) don’t sound credible to them.

    • Anonymous

      If your relatives are anything like mine, you could just stop sending thank-you notes and that will decrease the volume of gifts substantially. Even better, send notes that contain subtle digs at the giver.

        • Anon

          Yeah, I think this commenter and the OP might want to exchange contact information and go bowling together or something.

        • Anon

          Gift giving and receiving are primal responses, Google it. Find a way to connect without stuff. Move on.

          Love that the next post is about a gift recommendation! : ) joy at work in the universe.

      • Anon

        Actually, the not-writing-a-thank-you-note worked for me. My mother badgered me (bullied me?) for an idea of what to get me while she was travelling in Europe. I kept saying I didn’t want anything. She persisted (!). I gave in and said X. She got me X. I failed to send a thank-you note –after all, I didn’t see it as a gift. She turned it in to a huge THING and stopped giving me any kind of gift ever after. What a relief!

    • Anon

      I mean, if I knew you really, really didn’t want a gift, I really wouldn’t get you one, and I wouldn’t expect one in return (please don’t do that.)

      But for every you, there’s someone who says “oh no, I don’t want a gift, I don’t need anything, seeing you will be plenty” but they really don’t mean it, and will give me a gift and then be hurt they didn’t get one back from me. It’s a trap.

      So I think that’s why a lot of people are cautious. If you are really serious about it, write a long form note to people who usually give you gifts explaining that you are serious – try to do it in a less judgmental way than your posts here though; if you don’t want a gift that’s fine, but it’s not an opportunity to get on your soapbox and insist no one gives gifts to anyone else – and then be extremely gracious about not receiving gifts.

      I would never force a gift on someone who truly doesn’t want one. It’s just hard to tell sometimes.

    • Anon

      I’m with you, Gift Hater. Why do someone else’s wishes to give you something (and cause environmental harm) take precedence over yours not to receive something.

      There’s also plenty of options for people who ‘need’ to give us something: locally made consumables, gift cards or something they have made themselves. I value local honey or eggs from the giver’s chickens much more than polluting polyester pajamas or yet another scented candle.

      My mother in law was the worst. White short sleeved blazer printed with huge red roses?! All bought on final sale.

  7. Anon

    Gift recs for 26 year old female for upcoming birthday and Christmas. Outgoing, likes to cook, loves modern farmhouse decor(think Magnolia), learning to cook, does some outdoor activities and goes to gym…loves lavender and candles so I’ve got L’Occitane lavender stuff, a Nest candle…other ideas?

    • anne-on

      Food52 has a nicely curated shop, I’d poke around there. Otherwise I’d suggest a NYT cooking subscription (or Americas test kitchen, but I think the NYT has better recipes). If you know her taste maybe a new cookbook? I use the two Smitten Kitchen ones constantly and also really like the new Ina Garten one.

    • London (formerly NY) CPA

      How much are you looking to spend? Seems like not much if you’re thinking candle. In that case, I’d get some good cooking tools from Oxo or another reputable brand or a fun apron/oven mitt set. If you’re willing to spend a bit more, Le Creuset cast iron skillets typically go on sale for about $100, and that’s something that feels very fancy to me. I love all my Le Creuset stuff.
      Also second the cookbook recommendation. I love the Cooks Illustrated cookbook. It’s huge and a great recipe reference for me. Agree with anne-on that Ina Garten are a classic as well. There’s also always loads of trendy cook books. A few that come to mind would be Chrissy Teigan’s, Yotam Ottolenghi. Also found this Buzzfeed article (which normally I dont care for their recommendations but they do “trendy” well): https://www.buzzfeed.com/melissaharrison/best-cookbook-gifts

      • Anon

        Essentials of Classic Italian Cooking by Marcella Hazan and How to Cook Everything by Mark Bittman (specifically the first edition) are the two cookbooks that have the most stains from frequent use in my kitchen – by a long shot.

        • Anon

          The same Hazan cookbook in my kitchen is falling apart at the spine after 30 years of very frequent usage. Excellent suggestion.

    • Anon

      OP here…great ideas on cookbooks! I just learned that she likes Asian cooking – stir fries, pad Thai….any recs?

      • Anonymous

        If she doesn’t have a nice set of reusable chop sticks that might be a good option?

      • Ribena

        I’d be tempted to go for one of Rukmini Iyer’s roasting tin books. She’s from a British Indian family so there are lots of flavours from her heritage throughout.

      • London (formerly NY) CPA

        Momofuku (pan-Asian), Jet Tila’s book (pan-Asian), Dishoom (Indian)

      • Anon

        If you’re into researching, look up common ingredients and head to a market, then make up a gift basket. Depending on what culture she’s into, something like Kewpie mayo, instant dashi, various S&B seasonings, pickled daikon, etc will get used and are SO much better than the overpriced, crappy stuff that’s available in western supermarkets. I used Japanese cooking as an example, but the same would apply to whatever culture’s cuisine she’s learning.
        I wouldn’t buy a wok, unless her stove has a wok burner.
        Likewise, chopsticks…. fancy, giftable chopsticks are often really slick and hard to use, especially if you’re serving on western flat plates. A big pack of convenience store chopsticks are cheap and can take up space in a gift-basket, though.

        • Anon

          This is an excellent idea and I’d love it. Ingredients are the way to go!

          Please stop giving everyone stinky candles, one third of people have breathing difficulties caused by artificial fragrances and I can’t come to your house if you have candles or reed stick diffusers.

      • Anonymous

        Tofu press
        Rice cooker
        Red Boat fish sauce
        Shaoxing rice wine (Chinese cooking wine)

      • Anonymous

        I really like my udon noodle bowls, a gift that was sourced from a local Asian market.

    • Ribena

      This sounds like me! Fun cooking tools (the Joseph Joseph spaghetti scoop is my hero tool in the kitchen), appealing cookbooks, or new gym socks are always going to go down well.

  8. Dallas?

    We are moving to Dallas for my husband’s job (coming from Boston – I can work equally well in either city). I know it will be a bit of a culture shock, but looking for recommendations for neighborhoods/schools. We have a pretty healthy budget (~$2.5m or so – definitely benefited from the appreciation in our Boston house) and are open to public or private schools, but want strong academics with diversity (racial, but also socioeconomic – so for a private school a high % of kids receiving aid). We’re moderate by Boston standards, but I’d imagine pretty liberal by Dallas standards and lightly religious (we attend service at an Episcopal church on major holidays, but no bible study or the like). I have a few MBA-era friends who live there to reconnect with, but none have kids, so looking for advice on the city generally and school/neighborhood specific recommendations as well. TIA!

    • Sunshine

      This is pretty specific, but if you have a high school age son, I suggest Jesuit High School. It has always been known for its diversity within the student body and generous financial aid. While it is Catholic, it’s Jesuit so much less so and the student body is not heavily Catholic. I don’t know much about the sister school, Ursuline Academy.

      • Re-booting

        I default to You Can’t Go Wrong with A Jesuit Education (and I’m a whiskeypalian). Also, would tilt politically in a way you’d like (or like better than elsewhere).

    • Anonymous

      If you want to live in Dallas proper, you’ll want private school. St. Marks, Greenhill, Hockaday are ones to look. Most of my family went to one of those. I grew up in the Preston/Royal area of Dallas but that has changed so much since I lived there–the home I grew up in was sold for 2M and razed for a 25,000sq ft mansion that sold for something like $10M last I saw.

      We spent some time living in Boston. Dallas is….sprawly. Huge. Everything really is bigger in Texas.

      Highland Park, where many of my childhood friends grew up, feels much more like New England, if you want to stick with that sort of housing. Real estate is out of control everywhere so

      • anonymous

        Why would she want private? I understand the Dallas public schools are highly diverse, which is the primary requirement OP mentioned…

        • Anon

          She also wants strong academics and many of the Dallas schools are not that highly rated. But a decent public school option would be Woodrow Wilson and like in Lakewood.

        • Anonymous

          I live in Boston but grew up in Dallas. Public school on Dallas proper is not the same as suburban Boston.
          Outside of Dallas there are excellent school districts. I would caution the OP that the sheer size of some of the public schools is worth checking out as it’s just so different from public schools in New England. The high school out in Allen is over 5k kids!

        • Anon

          I completely understand not wanting to deal with public school in TX, but I thought charter schools were a huge thing in TX, so I wondered why private and not charter.

          • Anonymous

            One thing is that a lot of the actual business/work in Dallas is not in Dallas proper. If OP’s husband is working north of dallas (where the sprawl is going), then there’s no reason to live in the city and deal with city/charter schools when you can live north of dallas where the public schools are good and the commute is shorter.

            Or if OP’s husband has to commute to Irving, no sense living anywhere in north dallas if you don’t have to.

            The DFW metroplex is enormous, so understanding where the job requires the OP’s husband to be physically may really impact suggestions on the move.

            I’m the poster living in Boston. It’s like saying “We are moving to Boston for work,” then finding out that the job is actually in the 1-95 loop, where living in the suburbs makes more sense. Or if the job is at BIDMC, no sense moving to North Andover.

      • txblue

        One more thing to add, HP is not diverse. so that is another vote for Lakewood

    • NYCer

      This is coming from someone who knows NOTHING about Dallas, so take it for what it is. A good friend of mine moved from Los Angeles to Dallas last year, and her elementary aged kids go to The Episcopal School of Dallas. They are happy with it. It sounds like they are about the same level of religious as you are FWIW.

      • anon

        Episcopalian schools are usually incredible academically. I went to one and have nothing but good things to say about the academic education AND the character/life/be a good person education I got. While my family is Episcopalian, most people were not (lots of Catholics, some other mainline Christian denominations, a handful of other religions, and a handful of non-religious families). The religious focus was more on being a good person than Church doctrine (though since you’re loosely Episcopalian, if there is more focus on doctrine that should be fine)

    • Elegant Giraffe

      Hi! Welcome! 2.5m should take you far in Dallas, so I don’t think you’ll be constrained geographically by your budget. If you’d like public, Highland Park would have excellent schools with limited diversity. Richardson ISD – particularly the JJ Pearce feeder pattern would work for you – and you’d still have a very reasonable commute into downtown. Plano ISD would also work; you’d find more racial diversity in the Plano East Senior High and Plano Senior High feeder patterns but the Plano West Senior High feeder pattern is also diversifying. PISD schools are excellent. The farther north you go, the less diversity you’ll see (Allen, Frisco). Southlake would have excellent schools but I would put up a strong red flag on diversity – listen to the Southlake podcast from NBC for more info. I saw someone else mentioned Woodrow Wilson in Dallas ISD – that’s another great feeder pattern for your criteria with some gorgeous historic homes. For private, Ursuline, Hockaday, Jesuit, Greenhill, ESD, St. Mark’s, and Lamplighter could all be great fits. Charters in DFW tend to be geared toward low-income families nearer downtown/south Dallas/west Dallas, but North Hills in north Irving would absolutely meet your criteria for excellent academics and diversity – not sure if you could get in mid-year though.

      Dallas is plenty blue. Less blue and more red the further north you go, but I think you’ll be fine.

      Happy to answer other questions! (I work in K-12 public ed here.)

    • txblue

      If you want publics, you can do highland park (which is in the middle of the city) and all the schools are excellent and 2.5M will get you a house but not a big house. Or you could do Lakewood, which is also in the city and is good. The thing about Dallas public schools is that there are good schools but you have to be ready to fight/work to make sure your kids end up in them. But, honestly, most kids that grow up in highland park are brats until they turn 25 so I would choose Lakewood.

      (this is all from a person who grew up in a school district that played HP in playoffs and had classist and racist stuff chanted at us every year about how we were all on welfare and going to end up cleaning their houses)

      • Anonnymouse

        Oh man! Totally had the same experience with HP growing up – so even when I meet perfectly nice people from there as an adult I have immediate bias, ha! They said nasty and racist things to our band/dance team and defaced our school and cars. (and this was in the 2000s – not 1960!)
        I mean, I would never live there, but is is a very beautiful neighborhood and conveniently located. But, yeah – it’s a no from me dawg.

    • Audreycat

      If you want to live in central Dallas, I recommend Park Cities if property value appreciation and access to downtown culture is a high priority (highland and university parks). If you’re coming from Boston proper, you’ll find the houses very spacious, and the average value has tripled in recent years. There are truly exceptional public schools in that area (bubble district) but diversity will be nil. There are private options too, and I’d definitely go with the Jesuits. To be honest, the rich central Dallas set don’t like their kids to have diverse educational environments— all DISD public schools are set up to reinforce the racial and socioeconomic divisions left over from Dallas’ segregated past, not eliminate them. If diversity is truly a priority, you want to look at neighborhoods significantly below your top budget, or to the suburbs.

      • Anonnymouse

        As a Dallas native who attended public school – I would say this is spot on. I lived in the Preston Hollow area and 90% of white kids go to private school. As a white person who went to public school (Preston Hollow Elem./Franklin Middle/Hillcrest High) I was the minority. Did we have fancy facilities or much new stuff? No, but I wouldn’t trade that experience. My schools were very diverse and had a strong AP program. As a community we were really aware that many kids didn’t have lots of resources, so it was never assumed that folks could afford everything, and there was no bullying because of socioeconomic status.
        I mu humble opinion, you have to choose your “problems” with schools: will it be rich school problems (drugs/kids with money+boredom issues) or poorer school problems (no new everything, different family problems).
        I was fortunate for my diverse experience with solid academics and extracurriculars that made me aware of my privilege (before that was a thing) and made me comfortable around all kinds of people.
        So, I said all that to say that while everything said above may be true, I think I just felt like talking about my experience, and how I feel about it now 10+ years out. Happy to answer any questions.
        Hard agree that you really need to considered where work will be located, as the metroplex is indeed massive and commuting can really suck.

  9. Vicarious Shopping - Wool Coat

    I’d like a nice wool coat – something chic, polished that I can wear in lieu of my big winter parka between snow storms (I’m in Boston) to client meetings and whatnot, or on a date night this winter. I walked by Aritzia this weekend (never shopped there before) and loved the look of their Montage Coat in camel. Love the belt and the oversized lapel/collar.

    Can anyone recommend the brand or another similar type coat from another brand? Doesn’t have to be belted but I am attracted to that lapel look, I think. Would need a size L (possibly XL depending on the cut – I just have big hips…). Thanks in advanced!

    • Anon

      Mango! I love their coats and have been very happy with my wool Mango coat. Quality is good for the price, MIO. They do cut small in the shoulders (European-style).

    • Anon

      I got both of my long wool coats for around $100 each on Poshmark. Both are in great shape, 100% wool (increasingly harder to find now) have classic silhouettes and are heavier/warmer than anything currently available.

    • Party Animal

      Look at the Calvin Klein Women’s Asymmetrical Belted Wrap Coat at Macy’s. Looks pretty similar to the Aritzia coat and is on Black Friday sale for $98. No camel color but I like the “Oatmeal Twill”.

    • Anonymous

      I really like Cinzia Rocca, they are really good quality for the price and fit well over my hips. They have both wool and wool and cashmere blends. The blends are worth it.

    • Emma

      I have the Artizia cocoon coat and really like it – it’s warm and chic. I have the heather light gray, but they have a lot of colors.

  10. Anonymous

    Does anyone have recommendations for some kind of Thanksgiving food basket delivery in the Denver area? My relative is spending the holiday alone and I’d like to send her something since she doesn’t cook. Open to any ideas.

    • Anon

      This is a great idea. Piggybacking: does anyone have recommendations in the greater Chicago area?

    • Colorado

      Eataly, or Standard Market in Westmont (their website says their concierge desk could make something).

    • Jessica

      I am not sure about the whole Thanksgiving basket – but if they like pie or dessert check out SweetSweetz. You can order a piece of pie (obviously you should order single pieces of multiple pies) or a whole pie; they have a ton of other dessert options. It is owned by a black woman who is very kind and very involved in the community. And I have never had a bad dessert from there – and I go often as this is just a few hundred feet from my house.

    • roxie

      Check Marczyk’s – I don’t know if they are doing that but they’re the kind of place that would!

  11. Thanksgiving

    what is everyone cooking for thanksgiving this year? So far, I have committed to pioneer woman’s turkey brine but looking for turkey/side recipes

    • AIMS

      Smitten Kitchen recently had a kale pumpkin pasta bake that is delicious & makes a great veggie main if you have any non-meat eaters.

      The NYT has a really good recipe for Fennel-Apple Salad With Walnuts that I made last year and will make again – it’s addictively tangy and v. easy to make ahead (and unlike other salads, also keeps well). I am not big on fennel though so I definitely use a bit less than called for.

      Also, and always, mashed potatoes & fresh rolls.

      • No Problem

        Tell me more about this hot sauce mac and cheese!

        My mom still hosts Thanksgiving so I’m just a guest, but we are very traditional with sides: stuffing (I guess technically dressing since it doesn’t go in the bird), oven roasted potatoes, yams (not a food I like; I usually take a tiny polite spoonful), squash casserole (also not a food I like; polite spoonful), a green vegetable (usually steamed broccoli or sometimes roasted brussels sprouts), cranberry sauce out of the can, dessert is pumpkin pie from the grocery store (80-90% as good as homemade). We do usually start with a soup, which is generally either red lentil soup or carrot ginger soup. I guess that’s the least traditional part of the menu for us.

    • Anon

      I usually make a quiche as a vegetarian dish and a festive salad with pomegranate seeds. I have a bunch of home grown sugar pumpkins waiting to turn into a pie. Still need to decide on a recipe if anyone has any favorites.

    • Lyssa

      We’re going to sous vide the turkey, which I’m very excited/nervous about. Anyone tried it? We practiced on a chicken yesterday and it was fantastic, but turkeys are so much more unwieldy.

    • Lyssa

      We’re going to sous vide the turkey, which I’m very excited/nervous about. Anyone tried it? We practiced on a chicken yesterday and it was fantastic, but turkeys are so much more unwieldy.

    • Ribena

      Christmas rather than thanksgiving, but – we are taking inspiration from Kate Young’s Little Library Christmas book which contains a vegetarian wellington and a new way to cook Brussels sprouts (with soy sauce and sesame oil, yum)

    • Elegant Giraffe

      I’m switching up the cranberry sauce by adding chipotle peppers and orange zest & juice!

      • Senior Attorney

        I’m making jellied cranberry sauce and molding it in a can so my husband can have his beloved can-ridges. ;)

        • Anon

          You can’t take away people’s canned cranberry sauce. I have learned this the hard way.

          • Senior Attorney

            Boy, that is so true! They become enraged — ENRAGED!! — when you try to give them delicious homemade whole-berry spiced fruity goodness!

            Fortunately Hubby has agreed to the “homemade canned” experiment. We shall see…

          • LaurenB

            I was in my twenties before I knew that there was cranberry sauce other than the one with ridges from a can.

  12. Family Pictures

    Looking for advice on what to do with physical family pictures post-divorce. My kids’ dad and I split up about 2 years ago after being married 15 years. It was fairly amicable, kids have adjusted well, and everyone has moved on without much drama. We have 3 professionally-taken and framed family pictures that I don’t know what do with. Do I keep them in case the kids want them at some point? Do I just store them for a while then figure it out later? Part of me feels like I might regret getting rid of them since we didn’t buy the rights to the pictures, so if we get rid of the physical thing, we would never get it back if the kids decide they might want it later. For context, my kids are young teens so we were married for much of their childhood. They each have printed pictures from trips that we took together and I’ve kept family pictures on my social media accounts so they can go back and see those memories (and they do sometimes) and also because I don’t think I should scrub history just because the present is different. What have others done in this situation?

    • Anon

      My parents are divorced and I don’t have many pictures of my whole family and would really like them as an adult. Would it be possible to simply save the photos and reuse the frames?

      When my BIL got divorced, he replaced the photos with ones of just him + kids. My SIL is still in photos in their house which are like – whole extended family photos or weddings they were all in.

    • Anonymous

      could you take a photo of the photo? or take them out of the frames and box them up with childhood memory type stuff? I’m sure you have family photo albums, baby books, that sort of thing that is from your time as a family of (4?).

    • Anon

      Definitely keep them! But probably also scan them. I don’t think you should scan and get rid of the original, because that will never be the same for your kids. But good to have a backup.

    • Anon

      Keep them. My stepdaughter just now (about 4 years after her parents’ divorce) has asked for pictures of herself with her parents as a child, so your kids definitely might want them down the line.

    • Anonymous

      Keep them for sure. If they’re currently displayed in your house and you want to take them down, you can ask your kids if they’d rather have the pictures in their room.

      • Family Pictures

        Thanks. They both have pictures displayed in their rooms but I only have pictures of me and them displayed around the house. The nice pictures in question are currently down in the storage room in the basement that I’m cleaning out. I’m a ruthless tosser of items usually, so had to take a step back on these.

        • Anonymous

          If there’s wall/counter space in their room, I would probably ask them if they wanted to display them. If not then you can store them until they’re older. Idk about your kids but I loved looking through boxes of old stuff when I was a kid, it felt like a treasure hunt, so they might be more interested than you think.

        • Elegant Giraffe

          oh please keep them and ask the kids if they want to display them in their room now. They’ll be so grateful you did.

    • Anonymous

      Keep them. My folks split up when I was 13, and now that I’m in my 40s, I enjoy having the pictures… sort of in an archeological way!

    • Anon

      Reach out to the photographer and see if you can still get the images. You’d be surprised how long people actually keep them.

      • anonshmanon

        but if not, it’s really not that difficult to scan them, with a standard household scanner/printer, or with the big photocpy/printer at work, where you often can email yourself the scan. It may not be super high resolution to look good printed on a big canvas, but if your kids view them on a ipad/laptop screen later, it will be totally fine.

    • Cat

      Keep them, they are part of your kids’ history. Maybe you could store them with other childhood items from the year they were taken? (Like, my parents have one big Rubbermaid bin per life stage – 0-5, elementary, jr high, HS)

    • BeenThatGuy

      I’m team keep them. At least until you can offer them to your children once day. I got divorced while I was pregnant with my now teenage son. While we never had family pictures taken, I do make a point, on his birthday every year, to take a picture of the 3 of us together. I think one day, my son will like to look back on those.

    • anon

      Keep them! My husband’s parents are divorced, and they either didn’t keep these photos or lost them in Hurricane Katrina. At the time they had the photos taken, though, they gave copies of some of the photos to their parents or other older relatives. My husband’s aunt was tasked with cleaning out those older relatives’ houses as they passed away, and she saved a bunch of these pictures in a box with my husband’s name on it. She gave the box to my husband a couple of years ago, and it was very meaningful to him to have some photos of his entire nuclear family.

    • Anon

      Will just comment with this story. My high school/early college boyfriend’s parents had divorced when he was small. One day he went to lunch with his dad and later that day, I met him at his house and he was telling me about it. I said, I have never seen a picture of your dad, do you look like him? He said, let me find a picture and you can tell me what you think.

      He went into the photo albums and a tin of old photos and discovered that at some point his mom had either trashed all the pictures with his dad in them, or cut his dad’s face out of the pictures. He didn’t have one picture of his dad and she had basically ruined a lot of the other photos by cutting them up. He remembered some old family photos with his dad in them and some other family members that were just gone. It was shocking and upsetting to him. After I left that day, he confronted his mom about it and she said “he left, so we don’t need memories of him.” Obviously, that’s not how my boyfriend felt about the situation. His dad was still his dad, and he said he would have taken the pictures and hidden them rather than having his mom trash or destroy them.

      So, don’t do that. If there are pictures you don’t want to look at any more, I would just put them away for safekeeping. My FIL died early in our marriage and my MIL, who had been divorced from my FIL for many years, sent my husband a tin full of pictures of the three of them while MIL and FIL were still married. Those photos were a comfort to my husband when he was grieving as they captured moments he barely remembered, or showed things he couldn’t remember because he was too young. My MIL had tons of bitter feelings toward my FIL but she had enough consideration for her son to save the pictures, rather than destroying them. I always admired her for that.

      • Anon

        Hang on. Why wasn’t dad responsible for having pictures of himself? Why can’t mom keep albums the way she likes? Why is it on her and why is she the bad guy here?

        • Senior Attorney

          Thank you.

          Yes it would have been the “better” thing for mom to keep a few photos of Dad but it wasn’t her job.

        • Anon

          No one said the mom is the “bad guy.” Stop looking for offense against women where none is intended. I believe boyfriend’s dad did have some pictures also. But Boyfriend didn’t live with his dad, he lived with his mom (this was in the 1990s and 50/50 custody was not a thing; my boyfriend and his brother lived with his mom and had summer and holiday visitation with their dad, who lived in another city). And his mom didn’t even give Boyfriend or his brother the chance to keep the pictures, or give them to the dad (or her parents, or someone) to hang on to, or put them in a shoebox in the attic. She destroyed them, and this was in an era where if the pictures and the negatives got destroyed, there were no digital backups. These were pictures from the 1970s and early 1980s. So a lot of the memories of Boyfriend’s childhood were just gone.

          I don’t know where some folks on this board got the idea that in all situations, there is no way a woman could do anything wrong and anything bad that happens is always the man’s fault. But that’s an extremely juvenile, facile and reductionist point of view, and also, it’s gotten kind of old. You realize you don’t automatically have to defend a woman’s actions in every possible situation that is described here, yes? Women are capable of making bad decisions, acting selfishly, and being in the wrong. If you don’t believe that, that’s a “you” problem.

          • Anon

            There is a faction here that is either very large or very loud that seems to truly believe that women are blameless, that divorce happens only because of men, that fathers are useless, and that any parenting choice the dad makes that is different than the mom’s choice is wrong and damaging to the kids. I will admit that I’ve seen this viewpoint in real life, but only from women who are divorced and still in denial about their role in the breakdown of the marriage.

            I had a bad divorce and a successful second marriage, and I attribute the latter to the fact that at a certain point I was able to admit that even though my ex asked for the divorce, I was not a saintly put-upon victim but rather a human who didn’t always do my best.

        • Anon

          Once upon a time there were only hard copies of pictures that you got from the drugstore. If mom trashed the only version, that is on her.

        • Anon

          Yeah the cutting his face out seems a little dramatic and immature. But I don’t like the suggestion that the mom is responsible for saving photos of the kid’s dad. Dad should do that!

      • Anon

        Right after my husband and his ex separated, she apparently cut him out of or trashed all physical family pictures that he was in. Our then-8-year-old stepdaughter found a trash bag full of the crumpled up/cut up pictures when she was looking for something in the basement and it was super traumatic for her. Fortunately we have a huge number of digital photos and were able to reprint pictures for her to have in her room, but it was really upsetting.

          • Anon

            Why did the mom not have more self-control and self-restraint than to cut up a bunch of pictures and leave them where the 8-year-old could find them? Why is it that we expect men to have self-control and not act destructively, but it’s completely fine for a woman to do that if she feels like it helps her vent her emotions? This concept of “well, it’s really not up to the woman to act from a place of maturity and self-control” is super-infantilizing. It basically reinforces every BS point ever stated by an MRA/incel about how women are “over emotional” and “don’t take responsibility for their actions.” Grown adult women are capable of controlling themselves and not doing something that has long-term negative implications for those around them.

          • Anonymous

            Actually, the assumption that it was the mom’s responsibility to keep photos of her ex for the sake of the kids is what reinforces the incel perspective. Women aren’t people. We just exist to serve the needs of men and children.

          • Anon

            I mean, he had literally just moved out to a hotel with a suitcase – they weren’t even divorced yet and most of his stuff was still in the home. I don’t think he expected that her priority was going to be taking the shears to the wedding album and then leaving the mutilated scraps stuffed in a bag for their kid to find.

          • Anon

            If mom just lost them or something then you have a point, but she actively destroyed them so that’s absolutely on her.

          • Anon

            “Actually, the assumption that it was the mom’s responsibility to keep photos of her ex for the sake of the kids is what reinforces the incel perspective. Women aren’t people. We just exist to serve the needs of men and children.”

            LOL. No. Next time I recommend you stretch before you attempt that kind of leap.

            Also, I think your content plays better and has a more receptive audience over on r/FemaleDatingStrategy.

          • LaurenB

            Mom was an adult. I think it’s a classless thing to do.

            My dad was in a brief, childless marriage before my mom. For his 50th birthday, we did an elaborate “look back at the life of ..” thing. We included a picture of him and first wife. Why the heck not? She was part of his life, just like when he was in the army, etc.

    • Anon

      I saved them but took them down from display. I remarried and it seemed a little rude to my new husband to have them hanging there.

      My mom was a harder sell on taking them down, actually. The first time he came for a weekend at my mom’s house she had all my old family pictures as well as a wedding picture displayed. Thanks mom.

  13. anon

    Interested in hearing from others who are mid- to late career. I’m in my early 40s and really struggling with what I want the rest of my career to be like. I’m at a director level currently and that’s as high as I want to go. Anything higher sounds like a huge time and energy drain that I’m not interested in. More than that, even though I’m in the public sector, I’m struggling to find any meaning in what I do. When I was in my 20s, I was fascinated by what I was learning. That was enough to fuel me. Then in my 30s, I started focusing on the mission, and that was enough. Also, my people-pleasing tendencies went into overdrive, which caused a lot of extra stress and overwork to prove myself. Now I just feel kind of cynical, like I’m just another cog in this massive machine. I have plenty of responsibility but not much real authority to change things. I’m definitely working for the paycheck and not personal gratification at this point. And that’s fine, except that it feels very soul-sucking and not a great way to get motivated about the day. If I knew what I wanted to do instead, I’d try to go out and do that. So how do I dig in and find a deeper purpose in this stage of life? It’s very possible that burnout is at play, but I also feel like it’s a life-stage problem. I’m busy professionally, I’m raising two kids, and DH has some elder-care responsibilities.

    • career change

      I’m in a similar position and am pivoting from private sector to government work with the belief that the mission will be more fulfilling. I totally get the feeling of just being there for the paycheck and not personal gratification, and lots of people take the approach that it’s just a job and you should find your personal fulfillment elsewhere. That may work for some, but for me, I couldn’t imagine spending 25 more years, 40+ hours/week, simply going through the motions…it makes me want to stab my eyes out. I had also pretty much “topped out” as far as responsibility and experiences – it would all just be more of the same and a constant pressure to do more of the same (boring to me) work. Is there another mission you can get excited about where you can apply your skills?

    • Anon

      I’ve never understood the personal gratification aspect of a job. I don’t want to hate my job but I do it for the paycheck and I’m also grateful for the friends I’ve made at previous jobs. Any real fulfillment comes outside of work (aside from good feedback/performance reviews). My job should pay me enough so that I can pursue my interests and hobbies outside of work while also having enough free time. For example, I started running during covid and set and reached my goal of running my first half marathon this year. You’re at the highest level you want to reach professionally so it sounds like you may benefit from pursing non-professional goals.

      • anon

        OP here. I really want to be this person and have tried, but I don’t think I’m wired to think of my job as a paycheck and nothing else. I spend 40+ hours a week doing it; there has to be more to it for me to stay happy and engaged.

    • Anon

      It’s a “is that all there is” problem hat can hit at 40. I’d reframe how you look at advancement. You’ve got a long time to go career-wise, like probably 20-25 more years, and deciding you’re done/gone as far as possible isn’t a way to get there. I’d instead look at your role now as a way to gain new skills (there’s always something to learn and new ways of doing things) while it suits your life, but think about next steps. Those could be moving up where you are, moving laterally to something new, etc. It’s okay to give yourself permission to sit still for a bit, but once you deprive yourself of thinking that anything else is possible, you’ll sink into a rut. And fwiw, moving up has a lot of perks that outweigh the hassles.

    • Anon

      I hear you! I think this is super super common and a lot of people don’t talk about it. I might recommend Ten Percent Happier’s recent podcasts on work, or Adam Grant’s work on languishing. I think it absolutely is the lifestage thing, plus a global pandemic, etc. You are not alone.

      • Anokha

        Only here for commiseration. I am also struggling with my “why” — turning 40 next year, and feeling the burnout/”is that all there is?”/”what comes next?” part of my career.

    • Anonymous

      I got a hobby. I make plenty of money and don’t want to work harder.

      I also joined a non profit board.

      • Anonymous

        +1 to having made a big commitment to a nonprofit that’s important to me (officer/Board) in my free time.

      • Senior Attorney

        Agree with this. I find my meaning elsewhere these days.

        If you are dead-set on finding fulfillment through your job, how about getting involved in professional education in your workplace? I’ve done some of that and although it didn’t really ring my bell, a lot of people really love it and find it very meaningful.

    • Anonymous

      I think this is common, and it’s up to you to either find different value in your current work, or shift things around in the rest of your life so you find value. I think volunteering is one way to do that, but can be too much if your other responsibilities are overwhelming.

    • Anon

      I made a decision that I had all that I could handle on my plate and coasted a bit while raising my kids. Once my youngest hit high school, I wanted more work-derived satisfaction. I have received 3 promotions since then and love the upper level decision making in which I am now immersed. I guess I am saying it is ok to pause to meet other needs, but step it up later if you want, so maybe it doesn’t need to be an “in or out” decision.

    • Sunshine71

      I feel this. Years ago, I always thought I would want to move up beyond director, but I’m not so sure now. My work is still interesting and I enjoy it well enough. I still have an opportunity learn new things. But it doesn’t take as much effort as it did when I was trying to climb the ladder through good work and always looking for the next big thing to jump into.
      Instead of leaning in to work, I’m leaning in to other things. I want to get more physically fit, so I’m committing to a focused 6-month nutrition and exercise plan with a personal trainer. We got two puppies, so I’m spending tons of time with them and training them like we were unable to with our first two, 16 years ago. I’m spending more time with my niece and nephew.
      It just feels like a different time in my life with different priorities. I can’t say for sure that I won’t change my mind about moving up at some point, but for now I’m happy doing what I’m doing.

  14. Anonymous

    Is it a thing for phones to flip out in cold (low 30s) weather? Mine has gone from fully-charged to black screen to either refusing to turn back on or turning on only to 15% battery. I never thought I’d be the woman who keeps her phone in her cleavage, but I am now the woman with a phone in her sports bra to keep it warm (a coat pocket hasn’t sufficiently re-warmed it once it has gone into dying mode).

    Also (randomly), is this when I should also just get a GPS (for hiking)? If so, recommendations to pass along to Santa? I am a map + compass person, and understand that GPSs can have tricky-to-use interfaces, so I’ve never bothered before.

    • Anon

      Yes, batteries on everything – not just phones – don’t perform well in cold weather.

    • Anon

      Yes, electronics batteries act weird/discharge at very cold temperatures. I’ve had this personally with laptops and my coworker had the same when she left hers in an unheated garage over the weekend.

    • Anon

      It should be fine in your pocket. It might be an issue with your particular phone.

      • Anon

        No, this isn’t true. A pocket generally isn’t enough if it’s really cold.

    • Cora

      Yes batteries don’t do well in cold weather. I try to keep it in an inside pocket or in a bag so it’s somewhat warmer

    • Cat

      yes, it’s a thing, when spending a long time outside in winter I usually keep my phone in my breast pocket or puffer’s well-insulated pocket.

    • Anon

      Yes, take it from someone who has done a fair amount of Northern Lights photography – batteries go to sh1t in cold weather.

    • IL

      Yes, the battery can unexpectedly die and even if it doesn’t, the screen can stop responding to touch. Signed, someone whose phone reliably quit during the ten minute walk to work every day during the polar vortex of 2014.

  15. Anonymous

    Do you blow your nose in a restaurant or other public place? It’s never occurred to me to go to a bathroom just to do that but there’s a syndicated columnist telling people it’s disgusting. I can see why, but I’ve never heard of that etiquette rule before. I think I’ve seen more on lipstick reapplication after meals…

    • Anonymous

      I have nasty sinus issues and yes, I go to the bathroom for at least the past 4 years. It’s several tissues and a sustained process and often it would be nasty to a viewer to see (and then wonder if any of that seeped through to my fingers).

      A mere swipe with a tissue? IDK with COVID but I have yet to get back to that.

      I know in health care settings and maybe daycares you are supposed to wash hands after blowing your nose.

    • Anonymous

      Yes, you go to the restroom so you can wash your hands afterwards. Unless you’re sure it’s allergies, you shouldn’t be out in public when you need to blow your nose anyway.

      • CircularS

        ^^^ Please follow direct above so that your hands can be washed after completing this task – yuck!

    • Anonymous

      I always go to the bathroom to blow my nose. It seems rude to force the sound and sight of my snot onto others.

    • Ribena

      Depends on the public place. A restaurant, yes, I would. But if I were in a shopping centre or something I’d just stand to the side and then sanitise my hands.
      (This view may be coloured by the fact that I have never been able to blow my nose due to the weird way my nose is built inside)

    • Anon

      My nose runs constantly. I’d literally never be allowed in public if I was following this rule. That said, I’m almost never noisily blowing my nose, really just wiping it. I’ve tried a million things to keep this under control, but this is life with nonallergic rhinitis, and unfortunately eating is actually one of my triggers, so if I want to eat, I have to either wipe my nose at the table or let it drip in my food and wiping my nose seems like the preferable option. Luckily, masks actually help a lot to prevent my nose from running, but I’m really glad I’m WFH right now.

      • PolyD

        That’s interesting – I find that wearing a mask makes my nose really runny!

        • Anon

          Some cloth masks do bother me, so I’ve been wearing only KN95s. Two of my big triggers are particles (dust, pollen, pollution, etc.) and temperature/humidity changes, so it makes sense that good masks reduce those a lot. It’s a very good thing, because I have no idea how you’re supposed to regularly wipe your nose while wearing a mask. I still have to do it sometimes, and it’s very awkward. It really does keep me from wanting to be out in public very much right now!

      • Anon

        I also have a constantly runny nose and have to dab at it a lot. (Yes I’ve seen an ENT.) in my case masks do not prevent it, but they hide it, which is great!!

      • anon

        My nose also runs constantly and yes, I try to unobtrusively dab at it in public. I do worry that one day I won’t be allowed or welcome in public anymore.

    • Anon

      Drippy nose? No, that can be handled discreetly at the table (though if it’s paper napkins, I always take it with me and dispose of it myself.)
      Anything that requires force to dislodge, I head to the ladies’ room.

    • Anon

      I realize this may not work for some people with bad allergies, but if I have a runny nose I stay home. I have seasonal allergies that give me itchy eyes and sneezing, but if my nose is truly running and/or needs to be blown, I am sick and I stay home.

      • Anonymous

        For you, this is fine. For me (2 sinus surgeries + 2 lesser procedures), I wouldn’t have left the house since 2017.

        • Anon

          +1
          I would need to be a shut-in for the rest of my life.

          I resolutely stay home when sick, and have done since before the pandemic. But a runny nose is just my normal.

      • Anon

        What if it’s cold and your nose starts running when you get inside? Or you’re eating spicy food?

    • Anon

      PLEASE go to the restroom so we don’t hear snot gargling and wash your hands after.

      I’ve lost my appetite often over this gross behavior in public and I’m not conservative about most things. Caring for any excretions should be done privately not publicly.

      Thank you for posting.

  16. anon for now

    Hive, I need help with a decision.

    DH and I have been putting off TTC due to some other life events (jobs, moving). We were sort of hoping to have started by now, but we’re settled and we can get started anytime. Except we have conflicting wishes about how much longer to wait. My sister is getting married next summer, and I’d prefer not to be pregnant at her wedding. (I expressed this as “I want to drink at her wedding,” which DH found somewhat frivolous.) But DH is coming up on an age milestone next summer that he had hoped to be a father by, so he wants to start now. We’re both young enough that in the grand scheme of things, waiting for the wedding will not hurt our chances (family history also in our favor here). DH’s big birthday would be about 1 month before the wedding, which is in June (so not really enough time to have a baby *before* the wedding, even if I got pregnant tomorrow).

    FWIW, I don’t want to tell DH, “I’m the one who has to be pregnant, you get to deal,” because I love him and what he wants is important to me, too. I do think that maybe saying, “I want to drink at my sister’s wedding” misled him into thinking that I just want to be able to get trashed, which I will need to clear up because I am also thinking of being able to enjoy it without being sick or uncomfortable, being fitted into a bridesmaids’ dress and not having my body morph into something else within weeks, etc. I could do it. I just don’t want to. I don’t know whose wants get prioritized here.

    Any thoughts for me?

    • Anonymous

      As a pregnant person, you’d be immunocompromised during a pandemic. Maybe healthier for you and eventual baby that baby comes on board once you are home and away from the non-alcohol risk?

      Also, you don’t want to spend the wedding in a bathroom throwing up all over the place b/c you are the sort of pregnant person who gets all-day morning sickness.

    • Anon

      So many questions. How old is he going to be that he’s anchoring around that date? That seems wildly immature to me. All that aside, having a kid with someone is going to create way more issues and put all kinds of stress on your relationship. If you can’t sit down and discuss how waiting 7 months to get started isn’t going to change things and have your feeling taken into consideration, do you want to have children with this person? Because that is permanent and if you’re struggling over minor issues, how are you going to handle the rest of your life with him.

      • SSJD

        This is an insane response.
        I don’t think your husband sounds immature at all.
        Waiting 7 months to start is actually a long time.

        • Anon

          It really depends on how old people are. I’m guessing the H is turning 30 because younger people tend to still live with a check off the boxes by X age mentality. In that case, 7 months is nothing and they really should think about whether they want kids, kids together or if they just think they should have them.

      • Anon

        What a crazy response. She’s the one who sounds immature. Having a baby is a major decision and planning it around one evening is ridiculous. TTC may take you three years. You’ll regret waiting that 7 months. Or it might happen next month and you’ll have an easy pregnancy. I’ve attended and been in weddings pregnant. It’s not that hard. Barring rare complications, pregnant people function in society for 9 months.

    • Anonymous

      I think delaying hours life plans for a one day event is silly. If what you actually mean is that you’re simply not ready yet, so that.

      • Anonymous

        IDK — it is sort of like wanting to finish school and then have a baby. I’d not have a problem if it were an agreement to pull the goalie at the wedding or when you return, b/c I only want to have one more child (have one already) and want to do a good job with that one (and not run into drama). In the pandemic, I would not want to be pregnant on a plane or in a crowded event if I could wait a bit and be past that and then hunker down until the baby comes. It’s like avoiding Zika places or avoiding being pregnant in Zika places when you know the risk and have the luxury of a bit of time.

        • Anonymous

          No, a one day wedding for someone else is absolutely nothing like wanting to finish school.

          • Anonymous

            Family weddings aren’t a one-day thing. If you are going to have your first baby, it’s a bit of a final hurrah during a pandemic. We had a family funeral this year and it felt very much like OMG this may be the last time we see each other and it was a weekend b/c people had travelled (vs all being local).

          • Anonymous

            I had a baby while doing a joint master’s/law degree. I have attended many family weddings, pre-baby, pregnant, and with kids. Trust me, a wedding is nothing like finishing school.

        • Saguaro

          Right! And, there will always be some thing or event that happens during the 9 month pregnancy that you would normally want to drink, so delaying because you want to drink is kind of an immature reason.

          • Anon

            I didn’t have anything nearly as important as a sibling’s wedding during either of my pregnancies. There will be social events with alcohol, sure, but a friend or colleague’s wedding is not the same as a sibling’s wedding.

          • Anon

            If you need to consume alcohol at your sibling’s wedding, you should probably examine your relationship with alcohol.

          • Anon

            She’s explained that it’s about more than just needing to drink. I actually don’t drink alcohol at all, but would not want to be pregnant at a sibling’s wedding if I could avoid it. It’s an important event and the odds you’ll have to miss it or not be fully present go way up if you’re pregnant due to all kinds of things like morning sickness, travel restrictions, sciatic pain, etc. And that’s without factoring in the pandemic. Obviously if I were already pregnant and my sibling announced their wedding, I would still plan to go and make the best of it. But if I knew about it in advance and could avoid being pregnant by delaying TTC a few months? Yeah I’d do that, and I’m surprised people think it’s so crazy. If she’s under 35 and has no known infertility the odds that delaying 7 months will permanently affect her ability to have children are very, very low.

    • Anonymous

      Are you going to be comfortable going to a wedding during a pandemic while pregnant? Pregnant women are at higher risk for COVID complications (although being vaccinated helps a ton). Do you want to go to a large event where a lot of people are drinking, not wearing masks, etc while immunocompromised?

      • Anonymous

        This is why I’d be up for waiting since it seems to be the remember-it-for-a-lifetime event that you likely wouldn’t want to miss (stupid Pandemic; I wouldn’t say this otherwise). If you feel that you have the time. I can’t answer that. There are a few family events I wouldn’t have wanted to miss (like 5) and am so glad I could be carefree and attend. With the pandemic and what we know re breakthrough cases and COVID in pregnant women, I would avoid large crowd-y things and flying if I could.

        • Anonymous

          I think things are still too uncertain to put your own life on hold for someone else’s wedding. How do you know that there won’t be another variant surge that disrupts events this summer? Are you willing to wait two or three years if the wedding keeps getting postponed?

          • Anon

            This. As soon as my kids get fully vaccinated we’re doing ALL THE THINGS because I feel like in a year or two there’s going to be a variant that fully outsmarts the vaccines and vaccinated people will once again have a very substantial risk of death. It seems foolish to me to wait to be pregnant just because you don’t want to be pregnant at a wedding this summer.

    • No Face

      There’s no perfect time to have a baby and you have no idea how long it will take you to get pregnant or whatever curveballs life will throw you. My recommendation is stop trying to micromanage when baby comes and pull the goalie.

      • Senior Attorney

        Agree with this. Also I am Team Other People’s Weddings Shouldn’t Affect My Procreation Plans.

    • Anonymous

      Someone else’s milestone (your sister’s wedding) is not a good reason to put off your own plans. If you and your husband both want a baby and your sister’s wedding is the only reason you don’t want to TTC now, you are being selfish and unfair to your husband. Especially if you aren’t both 25.

      • Anonymous

        My money is that he is turning 40 and that neither is in their 20s. Pressure to be a dad at 25 is not for the people usually on this board.

        • Anonymous

          Exactly. Unless they’re in their 20s, they don’t have any time to waste.

        • anon for now

          As I wrote above, we are both young enough that waiting until after the wedding will not hurt our chances. He is not turning 40. This is just a random goal of his that I’m trying to be respectful of because I have a similar goal. I’m younger than he is, so mine is a few years out yet, so it’s reasonable to expect that we’ll make it, so I don’t want to ignore it because of a lack of understanding about how the looming deadline feels.

          Also, for everyone who is asking about the wedding: yes, I am comfortable attending it, even while pregnant, because my sister is being very careful, and yes, it is very important to me, because my sister and I had a rocky few years and are now very close to each other. Thanks for all the thoughts so far.

          • Anonymous

            I find the whole milestone/deadline thing kind of silly. If you are ready for a baby, you TTC. If you aren’t, you don’t. If you are not ready before it’s too late, then you didn’t really want kids.

          • Anon

            I’m going to say this as kindly as possible: if you’re over 30, you’re out of your mind. They make bridesmaid maternity dresses; they don’t make baby trees that you can pluck a perfect baby off of any time you want a child. TTC is rough. If you need fertility treatments, they work better (read: higher chance of success) when you are younger.

            You have no idea how fertile YOU are until you TTC. Anecdotal: my great-grandparents had a very easy time of fertility (maternal great-grandmothers had kids at almost-40 and 43); their children, my grandparents, were able to conceive exactly once and never past the age of 28. Lights out, game over before age 30 and their own mothers had babies late in life, especially considering the time period. You find out how fertile you are when you TTC, full stop.

            Pregnancy is harder the older you get. I know people who say that the difference between late 20s and early 30s was huge, even if it was only five years. As someone who was almost-40 when she was pregnant, words cannot express how much it took out of me – and I had a ridiculous amount of energy before I got pregnant. Ridiculous.

            If you want more than one kid, having an extra year to space out a kid is wonderful. Some people want them one right after another; others really want to recover physically and emotionally before having the second. You’re foreclosing options by waiting.

            And finally, what’s the next excuse? Your sister conceives next August and you don’t want to rain on her parade by being pregnant at the same time? A family member gets sick and you can’t possibly be pregnant while Uncle Marv is being treated for stomach cancer? Don’t announce your pregnancy at your sister’s wedding, but live your life.

          • Anon

            +1 to Anon at 11:32. Yes, you may foreclose the ability to have biological children by waiting. But if you’re not ready, it’s better to take that chance than to have kids before you’re ready.

          • Anon

            I agree. Life doesn’t operate on deadlines and what’s that expression about the make plans and god laughs? I don’t think there’s anything wrong with waiting, but in my experience when you really want something, you do it and things like a wedding to attend just don’t factor in. The fact that this is looming over the decision says you’re not really ready to have a kid. Which is fine. It’s fine to never have one, too.

      • NYCer

        I tend to agree with this. There is no perfect time to have a baby. If you both are ready to have a baby and have already been putting it off for a while due to other life events, I would just do it now.

    • anon

      You have no idea how long it will take to have a baby. As someone who waited 9 months to “start” so I’d look good in a bridesmaid dress and to be able to drink at a wedding, and is now 2.5 years (and counting) in to fertility treatments, I’d like to slap old me across the face.

      I don’t wish my experience on anyone, but you just gotta do you and don’t plan around anyone else. You legitimately have no control over this process. Start now or start later, but there’s no way you can time how this plays out.

      • Anon

        I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. I completely agree. TTC is not easy for a lot of women especially when we spend our 20’s and early 30’s focusing on our careers. I think it’s better to try now and then get fertility treatments in a year from now if necessary, rather than find out you need help in 2 years.

      • anon

        Coming back to add: The amount of control (down to the month?) you’re exerting over this process before it’s actually started – a process you essentially have no control over – tells me that you have some learning / unpacking to do around realistic expectations. I don’t know if it means your “not ready” as others have asserted, maybe I guess. But, you might find it helpful to do some reading on fertility and (lack of) control so that you’re not shell shocked if/when it doesn’t happen on your schedule.

          • anon

            I think there’s a book called Understanding your Fertility or Taking Control of your Fertility, or something like that. I didn’t read it (clearly). Hoping others might have some good recs.

            It’s a damn shame how little women are actually taught about their bodies and reproduction, so you’re definitely not the only one who has ever approached TTC the way you are. But, just as someone with a little bit of perspective, a lot of education up front would have saved me time and a boatload of emotional pain. Good luck to you.

            PS – make sure your husband ALSO reads the book. For as little as I was taught, my husband was taught that much less. It’s been learning for both of us all along the way and has helped inform the decision like they one you’re asking about today.

          • AnonATL

            Agree with starting now. We conceived #1 as soon as we started actively trying (tracking cycles and timing it). We’ve been at the same technique for over 6 months for #2 and no luck. Fertility is a weird thing, and there’s little way of knowing how it will turn out for you unless you already have a diagnosed condition like PCOS.
            Fwiw, I’m relatively young in gynecology standards and my husband is 7 years older so I understand the push to have a kid due to spouse’s age.

        • Anon

          +1 million or a billion.

          A lot of people have really unrealistic expectations re: pregnancy and fertility. That doesn’t make them right, no matter how self-reinforcing their little bubble is.

      • anon

        Yes, this. Sadly, family history of easy conceptions doesn’t always mean much when it comes to you personally. I would not postpone TTC for a wedding that’s many months away. In TTC terms, that’s actually a long time.

        • Anon

          My mom got pregnant by accident twice. My cousin got pregnant by accident while I was TTC.
          I had to do 2 years of trying on my own + 6 months of fertility treatment to get pregnant.
          Family history is no indicator whatsoever.

    • Anon

      this sounds extremely silly to me. you have absolutely no idea how long it will take to get pregnant. if you aren’t ready to get pregnant that is one thing, but if you are ready and the wedding is driving distance away*, i wouldn’t let that event impact your timeline. i would pregnancy is SO hard to time. if you were to get pregnant right now, you’d be in your second trimester at the wedding. if you are worried about not feeling well, you could decide to try until you reach the point where you would no longer be in the second trimester by the time of the wedding and would still be in the first trimester.

      *i say driving distance because it sounds like attending your sister’s wedding is very important to you and on the off chance you aren’t allowed to fly earlier than normal

    • Cat

      it sounds like you’re not actually ready, and using the wedding as something to pin it on, FWIW.

      • Anonymous

        To me this sounds like the whole upper-middle-class instagram life syndrome. No one feels “ready” to take steps in life until they can afford to have everything absolutely perfect. They wait to get engaged until they can afford a 2-carat ring, to get married until they can have a barn wedding with 200 guests and a live band and a bachelor3tt3 weekend and seven other events, to have a baby until they have a 4000-square-foot house that’s professionally decorated and can afford a Snoo, etc. They also demand that others arrange their own lives so that they can be bit players in the wedding pageant.

        • Anon

          Whoa, I think this is really unfair to OP who has given zero indication she’s obsessed with her image or material goods. There are lots of good reasons to not feel ready to have kids that don’t have to do with wanting an “Insta perfect” life. I did not feel ready to TTC until my mid-30s and it had nothing to do with wanting a 4,000 square foot house (I had one) or a Snoo (I never got one; seemed wildly overpriced to me). Having a baby is an enormous life change. It will change pretty much everything about your day to day life and will likely have a significant impact on your career, hobbies friendships and marriage (not necessarily for the worse, but still…any kind of change is scary). Even if you’re not a materialistic snob, it’s reasonable to not feel ready for that kind of sea change.

          • Anonymous

            It’s because she is willing to put her life on hold so she can wear a pretty dress and drink champagne at her sister’s wedding. It’s all part of the same complex.

          • Anon

            As multiple people have pointed out, this is likely not really about the dress and champagne but rather a subconscious feeling that she’s not ready for kids yet. And that’s a completely valid feeling and not a character flaw.

          • Anonymous

            I think it could be like I was dreaming of doing a Camino and have it booked for next summer and I’m doing it with people I don’t live near who’ve planned this for two years and . . . if I got in a car wreck, I wouldn’t go (out of my hands), but I’d not enjoy it nearly as much pregnant and might bail entirely (even if pregnant women could do it with maybe some modifications).

          • Cat

            Anon at 12:55, yes exactly that is what I meant. The wedding could be anything in the semi-distant future that buys another 6 months of time thinking about it.

    • Anon

      You’re going to get a lot of comments from people who struggled to conceive and will tell you to start ASAP because it may take you forever to conceive. That’s a valid perspective. The flip side is you may conceive immediately and be glad you waited until you really felt ready. We got married at 26 and didn’t try to conceive until 33. When we did we got pregnant on the first try. I’m so glad we waited. I don’t think I was really ready to be a mom in my 20s or early 30s, and having had almost a decade to be selfish DINKs with my husband made me a much happier, more relaxed mom because I was really ready to move into that stage of life where someone else’s needs are paramount to your own. I have a few friends who had kids in their 20s and definitely wish they’d waited. You can have regrets either way and unfortunately there’s really just no way to know how fast you’ll conceive until you try.

        • anon

          I’m anon at 10:51am above and agree with this perspective, too. My sister heard about my struggles, started and got pregnant instantly. They were absolutely not ready.

          You’re either ready or you’re not. When you start, you have to be ok with having a living, breathing child in 9 months. Don’t start now / too soon just for the runway to test and see if it works or not.

          As I said above, I don’t think your question suggests readiness or not, but you do need to do some reflection and be super darn sure if you do start TTC, that you’re good with a baby in your arms by end of summer 2022.

        • Anon

          Agree, people kept parroting at me that it takes time but I also got pregnant on the first try twice at an advanced maternal age. I think for many people infertility is hard and they warn you so that you don’t get disappointed like they were. It can even come off as kind of rude. When I conceived my second someone was laughing at me when I mentioned that I might be pregnant since I just started trying and was trying to convince me I’d have secondary infertility since they had it. If you look at the stats a majority of couples do not have fertility issues. You absolutely can get pregnant on the first try so if you’re really not ready or would rather have a baby later don’t start trying now. It may not happen right away, definitely be cognizant of fertility factors, but it’s also likely that it might happen. I may not have been glad that I waited if I had issues getting pregnant, but since it worked out for me I’m glad that I did wait.

          • anon for now

            Thank you. It’s funny – DH and I had a similar conversation about our wedding. He wanted to invite some family members he didn’t really see often so their feelings wouldn’t be hurt. We talked about how we could invite them but we had to be prepared for them to show up and calculate them into our costs, and we ended up sending most of those relatives announcements instead. We can “invite” the baby anytime, but we have to be prepared for the baby to decide to “attend.”

          • Anonymous

            So you are admitting that you, personally, are not ready for a baby even though your husband is.

          • anon for now

            There are lots of things that go into readiness. I am emotionally ready (and have felt so for a long time), but I want to enjoy my sister’s wedding freely first. I don’t think that’s shameful, and as I’ve said already on this thread, we are young enough that 7 months will not make or break anything.

          • Anon

            Correct. 25% of couples conceive the first month, and 80% within six months. The infertility voices are louder and I’m not trying to minimize how painful it is if you fall in that unlucky 20%, but statistically it happens pretty fast for the vast majority of people.

      • Anon

        Eh, I conceived at almost-40 the very first time we tried and firmly believe that the OP should either own up to not wanting kids or start trying now. Luck isn’t a life plan.

        • Anon

          I’m not saying you can assume you’ll conceive immediately. A woman who conceives on the first try at 38 is definitely lucky. But I also think it’s a valid choice to say you’re not ready for kids now, and you’re going to wait to conceive even knowing there is a small chance it will make conception harder or even impossible.

          I don’t think she’s said how old she is, but not feeling ready at 28 or 32 doesn’t mean you need to “own up to not wanting kids.” Some people are not ready at 30 and are ready at 34, and that’s ok. I’m a much happier mom because I waited until I was really ready. And unless she’s 35+, delaying by a few months or even a year should not have a huge impact on the odds she will eventually be able to conceive.

          • Anon

            But there’s more to having a kid than the ability to conceive. Especially if you are talking about multiple kids, even “just” two, the mere ability of gamete to meet gamete is hardly the only limiting factor.

            Pregnancy gets tough, fast, when you get older. People often want to space out their children because career + infant + pregnancy is impossible, or reasons such as a C-section mean that the best choice is to space them out. (Recommendation is to wait 18 months to conceive after a C-section.) Obviously, risks of genetic abnormalities increases as well. Not to mention that parenting can be rather exhausting, even if your kid is a good sleeper.

          • Anon

            Sure, the number of kids you want is relevant, as is the age you want to be done having kids, if you have a specific number in mind. But if she’s under 35 and doesn’t feel ready, my advice would be to wait and see. Particularly if you’re under 35 I don’t think not being ready is synonymous with not wanting kids. Sometimes you’re not ready and then you are, and that’s ok. There are advantages and disadvantages to every timing. Being an older mom may lead to more physical exhaustion or pressure to have kids closer together than you otherwise would have, but for many people it’s also correlated with increased financial stability (and throwing money at things can make parenthood a lot easier) and emotional peace about putting your selfish childfree days behind you.

    • Anonymous

      There will always be some event that will make it particularly inconvenient to be pregnant. Spoiler alert kids are pretty inconvenient too. If you’re waiting for 100% perfect timing then that means you’re not ready. Which is fine! But you have to talk with DH about that and not “I want to party and feel and look great on one day 7 months from now.”

    • Anon

      You might post this on the mom’s page, too, for more nuanced answers. I hated being pregnant for all the reasons you don’t want to be pregnant at your sister’s wedding–I was sick, uncomfortable, had an unrecognizable body, clothes didn’t fit, etc. Pregnancy required a huge shift in my bodily identity and caused a profound feeling of loss of bodily autonomy. Does your sister’s wedding represent a larger reckoning with what it means to be pregnant? And a parent?

      I agree that there’s no “perfect” time to have a baby that is scheduled around major life events. But the right time to get pregnant is when you’re ready–whatever that means to you!–to start the transition to parenthood. I don’t think either of you are silly or selfish for reflecting on the implications of a HUGE life change.

      • anon for now

        These are great questions for me to ponder. Thank you for the kind words.

        • anon

          Keep in mind your pregnancy might be a piece of cake. I personally loved being pregnant. I felt great, had tons of energy, and attended five weddings, two when I was 37 weeks. Pregnancy isn’t always 9 months of misery. That being said, if you’re willing to put off pregnancy on account of a wedding, it sounds like having a baby is not a priority to you right now and it might be better to wait. My newborn has rocked my world and not always in a great way

          • Anon

            Agree with all this. I enjoyed being pregnant and would have had no issues attending a wedding except for the fact that I didn’t want to travel long distances in my third trimester for fear of delivering in a different city and being stuck there. But there’s basically no world in which a baby won’t change your entire life. I do think it’s something you need to be ready for and if both members aren’t enthusiastic “yes”es it’s better to wait.

    • SSJD

      My advice is this (in a nice tone): honey, you seem to think you can control something that you simply cannot. If you are ready to have children, it’s time to start ttc. There will never ever be a perfect time. As you have already seen, life events (jobs, moving, weddings, trips, pandemics, illness, and more) can and will get in your way.
      Most people who have babies would prefer not to be pregnant ever. Almost all of us have something mid-pregnancy that would be so much more fun if we were not pregnant. But it’s something you do to have a baby (biologically). You aren’t asking to delay for a week, you seem to be requesting a rather substantial delay to starting something you really cannot time or control.

      • Anon

        But you actually can time when you give birth – it’s not a guarantee that she’ll conceive but if she doesn’t want to be pregnant in 7 months that is absolutely preventable .

    • Anon

      Hey OP I agree with you. It’s your body. This is not a 50/50 decision between you two. All he has to do is ej-culate. Everything else is on you. You get like 99% of the say in this.

      You tying the date to a significant social event is no more ridiculous than him tying it to an arbitrary birthday.

      The last thing you want to be is pregnant and resentful. Pregnancy is hard enough. Do what works for you.

      • Anonymous

        +1. Do what works for you. Consider whether the timing works for your life and upcoming events and go with it. I think a lot of other readers are projecting their own experiences and trying to paint you as crazy or immature for thinking about the timing of a pregnancy, but I disagree with that approach and think the decision is between you and your husband. Just because you can’t predict everything doesn’t mean you throw your hands up and let fate take over – you’re still an active decision-maker in your own life.

        • Anon

          +1. I was shamed here for asking about timing a pregnancy. People called me an idiot, naive, told me no one actually times their pregnancies etc. We successfully timed to have our child born in a certain season for job-related reasons and it worked out really well and I’m glad I didn’t give up on trying to time it. You certainly can’t guarantee your baby is born in a certain month or season, but your odds are non-zero and if you’re just trying to hit a 3 month window probably higher than 50%, which is a lot higher than zero. +1 million to “Just because you can’t predict everything doesn’t mean you throw your hands up and let fate take over – you’re still an active decision-maker in your own life.”

        • AnonInfinity

          I totally agree! I’m kind of shocked by the tone of a lot of these responses. It seems reasonable to me that the OP has no reason to think she’s infertile and she wants to celebrate a very significant family event with the biggest chance of being able to be fully involved and present and get maximum enjoyment.

          I believe that your wishes regarding pregnancy win out 100% of the time. I don’t know if you want to say those words to him, but I don’t think you should start trying until you both are ready or wanting to. If I were you, I’d probably return to the conversation and say that I’d realized saying I wanted to drink at my sister’s wedding sounded flippant, but that what I was trying to express was that I wanted to make sure I was going to fully enjoy the event because it’s really important to me to be there and not sick or scared of being immunocompromised in the pandemic or worrying about whether to eat something on the buffet because of the pregnancy. This is completely valid. He doesn’t get to pick what happens to your body because he has an arbitrary age deadline.

          • Anon

            +1 to all of this. I agree “I want to drink at the wedding” sounds kind of frivolous but there are lots of reason to not want to be pregnant at a wedding (especially with the suppressed immune system in pregnancy and the pandemic). Yes there are some lucky ladies who are glowing all pregnancy, but the reality is that most women are pretty miserable in the first trimester and many are miserable for a large portion of the third trimester so unless you time this perfectly, the odds you’ll be able to fully enjoy your sister’s wedding while pregnant aren’t great. It’s much easier to just delay TTC until after the wedding than to count on timing it such that you’ll be in the magical second trimester at the wedding. I think a 7 month delay is no big deal unless you’re advanced maternal age.

      • Anon

        Sure she can say she doesn’t want to have kids now or any time soon, but he doesn’t have to be okay with that decision. Pregnancy is all on the women, but that’s 9 months out of a lifetime of parenthood.

        • AnonInfinity

          Right, of course. Each party in a relationship always gets to pick what is important to them and what’s a dealbreaker. In this instance, I question whether I’d be ok with my spouse having a dealbreaker that I must start trying to get pregnant in the next 7 months to meet an arbitrary age guideline he’s set. I probably, personally, would not want to reproduce with that person.

          I don’t really think that’s what the OP will encounter unless she’s left some major pieces out of the story.

    • Emma

      My only thought as someone who had made a whole plan surrounding TTC and has been trying for a year now is… TTC when you are with a person you actually want to have kids with, but don’t wait until all the stars are aligned and don’t put too much weight on a specific date because the timing may be more complicated than you expect.

    • anon

      I was a bridesmaid in a close family member’s wedding and thought I looked AMAZING (2nd trimester). My baby bump was really cute. I also had champagne. Had a ton of fun, and have great pictures of me pregnant and before having children.
      I really empathize with you, I was not sure at all about having kids and got pregnant right away. Before pulling the goalie, I had all sorts of reasons not to try just yet, including the above wedding, a vacation, Zika, etc. But you can’t predict the future either way, and you might find pregnancy and having a kid better than you would expect.
      Now, after 2 kids, I wish we had started earlier so I could have had longer with my oldest “alone”, and so I’d be a year younger contemplating my third.

      • Anon

        Ttc for 9 years now, through all the things we could do.

        We were shocked coming from large familes (defined a s 4 to 13 children)

        I wish you luck and think no one is ready until it happens. Wishing you the best!

    • Anon

      It sounds like maybe you don’t really want to be pregnant yet? It’s not that big a deal to figure out a bridesmaids dress that will work well for a changing body and if you’re in your second trimester you probably won’t be that sick or exhausted. One option is to try for a few months so you’d be in the second trimester by wedding time and if it doesn’t work out, hold off and try again after the wedding. It sounds like your husband is ready now to try, so I can understand why waiting seven months to even start – which means it will be a year and a half minimum before a baby is here – is a long time.

  17. AnonComp

    I have a professional and social problem that I’d love your help navigating. I’ve been unhappy at a big4 and my friend who is at a smaller firm suggested I apply to her firm because she loves it. She talked me up and I applied and I loved everyone I talked to until we talked comp. What they offered is about a 70% paycut. While I expected a paycut, I was thinking more a 50% paycut and honestly found it kind of uncompelling (and maybe insulting) given my experience. However, I thought maybe I have a self-inflated ego and maybe this is just the going rate at a smaller firm so I talked to a few friends and they really think what they offered is low and I should be getting at least 50% of what I’m making now. So first question is what do I tell the firm? While I do think there is some room to negotiate, I don’t think it’ll get me to 50% or near it. They’d probably give me $10K but think that’s tops. Is there a diplomatic way to say their offer is uncompelling and I don’t think I want to move forward but would love to stay in touch? And secondly, what do I tell my friend? What they offered is around what she is making there and I don’t want her to think I think too highly of myself or that her salary is low since in the grand scheme of things it is actually very good comp but we came from different starting points and I just don’t want to sell myself short.

    • Anonymous

      “I appreciate the offer. It’s been a pleasure learning about the firm a d meeting everyone. In terms of salary, my expectation was X [50%]. Is that something you can work with?”

    • Anon

      Perhaps it’s a feature of law, but I talk very openly with friends about compensation. I would start with your friend and find out from her experience how best to negotiate and also really dive into life there so you can assess the trade-off better (50-70% is a lot, so I would need to hear new place is amazing from someone who’d been at old place and do serious math). But new firm will not be shocked if you decline over a pay cut that big. It’s fine to say “loved meeting all of you, firm seems great, but I gotta eat and am not in a position to take a 70% or even a 50% pay cut to come here.”

      • Cora

        100% to this. Absolutely no place is surprised if a candidate says that they don’t want to take a pay cut and are rejecting a job because of that. That’s pretty normal. I was in a similar situation and they ended up going up high enough for me, but if they don’t, that’s that.

    • No Face

      Determine the amount of money you would accept and counter. If they can’t meet it, then graciously decline. Don’t assume there is no chance for agreement. Also don’t assume that your friend would be offended if you can’t come to terms on comp. I make less than many of my buddies from my former large firm and I have no regrets.

      I’m in law, but I am also at a small firm with a great culture. I told them my number, and they gave it to me even though it was higher than they would normally pay. Now the managing partner is recommending that I get a substantial raise a little over a year in because of my performance.

    • anon

      I would focus on whether the amount offered is consistent with market for smaller firms/experience level. If they aren’t offering market, then that’s your way out to your friend. Just tell her that the offer came in below market and you weren’t able to come to terms on a salary. To the firm, I would give it a round of negotiating and then let it be. And, yeah, I’ve been there in a similar situation where the offer comes in way below market with promises of a better life style. I said a hard no.

    • baseballfan

      I’m in Big 4 and have been for most of my career but a few times over the years, I explored other opportunities. While regional/local firms will not pay as much as Big 4, a 70% cut is absurd. 20% to 30% *maybe*, depending on the role and what level you are and will be.

      Also, there’s more difference among Big 4 firms now than there used to be, so if you’re unhappy where you are, maybe another Big 4 would solve some of your concerns while staying at a similar pay level.

        • baseballfan

          Well, to a great extent it’s culture related. Example: a year or so ago, EY went to “unlimited” vacation which many people did not appreciate because normally in those situations, people end up actually taking less time off, and if you leave, you don’t get paid what you have accrued.

          Another example that is recent and has generated some buzz: PwC announced they are allowing most all employees to opt into permanent remote work. I would not be surprised if other firms followed suit.

          There may be differences in vaccination requirements and other intangibles.

          And all the firms have lines of service that are better than others and vice versa. Depends on what area you work in or want to work in, and how strong the firm is in that type of work.

          • Anonymous

            How do you find out about all of the lines of work, especially the ones that are not strictly accounting (anything dealing with mortgage-backed bonds, etc.)?

      • anon

        Hard agree. I was at 2 of the 4 of the ‘Big 4’ before going to a McB and I was shocked at how different the pay bands/cultures can be among very direct competitors. In my totally unscientific opinion Deloitte and PwC are the worst in terms of work life balance/expectations, KPMG is probably the best though the prestige isn’t great and they know that and compensate with better $$ and benefits. Also no way in heck would I take a 70% paycut, you 20-30% max and I would negotiate hard for additional benefits like guaranteed wfh/etc.

    • anon

      I’m the lone government employee and almost all of my friends work for the Big 4. Obviously, I make a lot less than them and we all know it but it’s so funny to me to hear what they think I make. A few know I make less but think it’s that they make 100k so I probably make 90k. Others know I make 55k and think I’m impoverished (like one tries to buy my dinner every so often because she thinks I can’t afford to eat out. Another interviewed for a startup, but withdrew when he learned the salary was 65k because, in his words “that’s not a livable salary!”). All this to say – while a 70% paycut is huge and I wouldn’t recommend doing that – I think the Big 4’s understanding of other salaries is often unrealistic

    • Anon

      I handle salary negotiations a lot and this is easier than you think, I promise! To the firm, you counter with what you are willing to accept, and if they can’t match it, you politely thank them for their time and decline. To your friend, if you’re not able to negotiate successfully, you just let her know that you were excited for the opportunity but the salary cut was more than you were expecting and wasn’t something you could make work from a financial perspective. You’re assigning value judgments to this that your friend likely won’t (and the firm definitely won’t; this is just business for them).

      Do let go of the idea that the firm is “insulting” you with the offer. Again, this isn’t personal and making it personal will actually make you less effective in the negotiation process. I have to make people offers all the time that are big paycuts from their biglaw salaries – that’s just what we have to offer financially, it’s not a judgment on their inherent value as human beings or anything.

  18. Anonymous

    Plus size pick note: your plus size picks on splurge Monday tend to be really down market. 11 Honore has a gorgeous silk tie-dye dress from Ganni that is a real alternative, not some down market rag that reinforces the notion you can’t have nice things unless you are a 10 or under.

      • Monday

        Eh, I can understand the anger. Plus size shoppers are excluded and overlooked in so many ways, and this is a shopping/fashion blog.

        • pugsnbourbon

          Yeah it’s a good point. It makes sense to choose a comparatively-luxe plus-size item on Mondays.
          I found this brand via Instagram – all of their dresses are available up to a 6X. Not silk, but the styles and prints are pretty: https://wray.nyc/

      • Anon

        It’s kinda a shame it has to be said at all, frankly. Today’s plus size pick is really, really bad.

      • Anon

        I honestly didn’t read that as rude. But even if it were I get it. Plus size clothes so often are printed polyester granny-goes-to-church. If not that then super duper trendy. It is at best frustrating and at worst leads to some very negative emotions whenever that is nearly all you have to pick from.

      • anon

        Yeah I didn’t find the original comment rude. If the blog doesn’t want to actually put effort into finding a decent plus pick, then just don’t bother doing it at all. Don’t pick a crappy one just to say you did.

    • Anon

      The regular-sized cheaper alternative is basically a min dress, so not much better. Most of the alternative picks seem very low effort, google ‘tie-dye dress’ and post the first hit.

    • Anonymous

      +1 this plus size pick looks so cheap. The patterns on the back of the dress don’t even match/line up! How is this a splurge?

      It is so frustrating being plus size, and I acknowledge I’m “lucky” as a size 18. Sometimes I can wear straight sizes in an XL. I have money. I want to buy beautiful clothes. Why is this so hard? Why is plus size suiting always godawful polyester? Is it punishment for not having a particular type of body?

  19. Anokha

    I have a few things that I’m eyeing at Anthropologie. Do we think that they will have a Black Friday sale? If so: Can I buy the items now and ask them to price match when the prices drop? Or do they not do that?

    • Anon

      They rarely have sales. I’ve found that if I like something there I need to just get it because even if it does go on sale, the discount is minimal and inventory low or gone.

        • Anon

          I don’t know, they could, I’ve just found any time they do they’re sold out of everything I want.

    • Anonymous

      I have gotten price adjustments on recently purchased items in the past. Not sure what current policy is.

    • Cat

      I would buy now if you really want them, keep the tags on, and then either ask for a price adjustment or return and re-purchase if there’s a better deal within the return window.

  20. Anon

    My husband gets really stressed out around his parents. His parents are coming for the holidays for about a week, although they will not be staying with us. I like his parents, but he and his mother get into the biggest pssing matches and sometimes he takes his frustration out on me / at me. I’m going to talk to him about how he plans on handling his parents and his stress levels, but I want to set reasonable boundaries, too. How have you all dealt with similar things in your relationships? We have kids; I can’t ignore them the whole week, but part of me knows I’ll need to limit my time around them and recommend some daddy/children/grandparents time instead. I want to set expectations early, before they arrive. Please help!

    • Anon

      Are you ok with them taking your kids out without you and your husband? Maybe schedule an age appropriate activity one day with just the kids to give you both a break.

      How much time do they want to be with you if they aren’t staying with you? As my parents got older they loved having breakfast to themselves and seeing us later in the day, giving everyone more space.

    • Anon

      Absolutely communicate about it ahead of time.

      My husband has relatives who are “drop in” kind of people. Early in our marriage we had two occasions where we opened the door to people we weren’t expecting standing there with luggage. This stresses both of us out but he wasn’t dealing with it AND he was leaving me to entertain them.

      I once stormed upstairs and found him watching sports on our bedroom TV while I was stuck sitting in the living room awkwardly making chit chat with people I didn’t expect, much less invite. I did the closest thing I could to grabbing him by the ear and marching him downstairs. Basically, they’re your guests, you entertain them. Period. After that, he had to lay down the law with them, and I’m happy to say the drop in extended stays no longer happen.

      • Emma

        oof, my inlaws are drop in people too. They are local, so no luggage, but a strong tendency to randomly show up at our door for a meal or whatnot. I am not at all from this kind of family and it’s been a major struggle for me. Lots of complicated conversations about this. But yes, talk to your husband and plan a few moments alone or alone with your kids.

    • nuqotw

      It sounds like a perfect time for you to schedule an outing with some friends! Or maybe an outing for just you! You will leave for the evening, there will be two extra adults to help out, his parents get time with just their kid and grandkids, and you get a night off! (How realistic this plan is depends I suppose on your spouse and ILs.)

      If they are not staying with you, I think it’s reasonable for you to have some hours before and after which you are off the clock. Also, a menu of kid-centric things to do it’s fine if the plan changes but have a plan so the default isn’t “hang around.” Maybe one lazy movie marathon at home with finger foods day. I think it’s reasonable for you get one evening off in the house, one evening off out of the house.

    • SSJD

      Therapy. Being mentally prepared for the stress and identifying triggers to avoid. Agreeing on code words between the partners to call attention (privately) to one person taking out frustration on the other.
      Good luck!

    • aBr

      This is why Thanksgiving 10ks were invented. At least that’s my theory as it gets you out of Wednesday evening and Thursday morning. All kidding aside, if you have a dog, take this as a chance to make sure that your dog gets all the walks they desire for the holidays. Highly recommend a good hour long walk in the park (with dog) to allow both of you to decompress from holiday stress. And, you can politely nod at all the other people you see on the way also deciding that their “dog” needs an extra long walk.

    • Anon

      Thanks, everyone, for your responses. I’m going to formulate a plan with my therapist on how to approach everything. I am totally down with dropping the ball and letting him manage his parents schedule and scheduling some time for myself, but I agree I need to do it now.

      Sadly, no dog to use as an excuse!

  21. anon

    In order to get my productivity moving (I’m so burnt out and therefore not very productive), I”m trying to get 1-2 things done before I go to work in the morning. I have pre-existing routines that cover things like doing Duolingo and reading (in bed before I get moving), working out (after work), and picking up the apartment for a few minutes (right before bed), so those types of things are already covered. I’m looking for a list of things I can do – today I finished repairing a side table, but obviously that’s a larger task that doesn’t come up very often. Looking for suggestions of things to do that will scratch that productivity itch

    • Anonymous

      If you can’t come up with anything else that needs to be done, aren’t you being plenty productive?

      • anon

        Well its half that my projects all feel daunting and so breaking them down into 5-10 min mini projects I can do to chip away at larger ones would be nice, and its half that I get NOTHING done during my work day and need a little kick in the rear to get productivity flowing in the AM

        • Anon

          If these are projects, can you spend those 10 minutes in the morning to (pick one per day):
          -Identify all the items you need for the project (paint, sanding equipment, glue, cleaning supplies, etc)
          -Gather the items from your house/garage into one place with the broken item
          -Purchase the missing items (home depot / lowes click and pickup)
          -Pick up the items from the click and pick up
          -Place time on your calendar at night/weekend to perform the project after you have all the items you need

          But also, pugsnbourbon has it right… address the burnout, don’t mask it with tasking.

    • pugsnbourbon

      Are you taking steps to fix the underlying burnout? Adding more to your plate sounds miserable if you’re already exhausted.
      That said, if you need a quick boost, you could do things like journal, read an in-depth news article, take out the trash, throw a load of laundry in the wash, load/empty the dishwasher, squeegee the shower, dry-mop the kitchen, etc.

      • anon

        aggressively job searching! Taking random long weekends. Starting therapy. I *think* I”m on the upswing (and certainly WAY better than where I was 6 months ago). I think that I even have a desire to be productive shows I’m doing much better.

        Sadly, I think working in public health for the last 2 years has ruined public health for me :(

        These are great ideas! Especially the shower/mopping – things I want to do but rarely get around to doing (unlike laundry, which I have to do regularly)

        • anon

          Honestly, it sounds like you are learning a language, reading, working out, doing chores, and working on projects. I don’t think you need to add tasks to your personal life to be productive at work.

          You’re burnt out after working in public health during a pandemic. You’re job searching. Be burnt out. Do the bare minimum at work. If you’re doing so little at work now that you risk losing your job (which I doubt), then I actually suggest (1) something at the beginning of your workday that puts you into a positive mindset, like a nice cup of coffee or a chat with a coworker or 5 minutes of a meditation app, and (2) leaving yourself a note at the end of the day of the first 2 things you want to accomplish the next day. They should be small or reasonable sized things, like returning a call, following up on an email, etc.

          If you really feel like doing something small before your workday starts, then I suggest doing 2 small tasks associated with your job search before work.

    • Ribena

      Do you know how to knit? On days when I feel like I’m not achieving much at work, stopping to knit a couple of rows of a sock (<5 minutes, like having a cigarette I guess) works as a bit of a brain cleanser and I am actually achieving something tangible

  22. Reintegration help

    DH just retired from the military. For various reasons, we have been essentially geo-baching/long distance relationship for the last few years. Needless to say, the transition to living together again has been hard. Any recommendations on resources on how to cope with this? I feel like it’s probably not super dissimilar to all the couples working from home suddenly during COVID, but I’m at a loss of finding anything online.

    • Anonymous

      Similar situation, DH is a year from retirement and we’re talking about what next year will look like. I think our living situation will have to change. The house definitely feels like my house not our house, we’re keeping an eye on the market so we can find something that will be “ours” when he’s out. If that’s not feasible for you right now, could you redecorate a room or two? Even a new paint color might help.

      One thing I’m struggling with is getting him to develop a plan for what comes next. He thinks he can get out and chill for a few months to a year and then wake up one day and walk into his next career. I would like there to be more of a plan. He’s starting his retirement “training” classes so I’m hoping they’ll guide him in the right direction. Did your DH develop a plan for what comes next? It might help if he’s getting out of the house and focused on something.

    • Anon

      No specific resources. It is similar to my husband retiring while I have a 100% WFH job. We needed to re-communicate daily life (lunches, interruptions, groceries, etc.). I think the military experience add other critical dimensions (my brother and dad were in military). They become so accustomed to schedule, hierarchy, and authority, that you have to allow for extra adjustment. Communication is huge during the transition as well as acknowledgement that this will take time. Go ahead and use language like “let’s see how this goes for a while and discuss it later” or “for now, let’s try this.” This is not typical military style, so labelling it is important for a new concept.

      • Anonymous

        I commented above but I read “retiring from the military” to mean he’s in his 40s and still has 20+ years of working years ahead of him. If he’s retiring for good then that changes the equation.

    • Anonnymouse

      No specific resources come to mind immediately, but I would recommend you both spend more time apart – either on hobbies, shopping, etc. Don’t feel like you have to be around each other all the time (if that’s the case). I find this helps with conflict and gives me the opportunity to “miss” my significant other.
      Also, appreciate what both you you have done – being in the military and a military spouse are roads that require a lot of sacrifice and difficulties that the rest of us don’t understand. Give yourselves some grace where you can. Best of luck!

  23. Anonymous

    Can a friendship like this be platonic or would you suspect something more? Single 50+ year old woman and next door neighbor couple age 45-50; no one has any kids. It started like a close friendship that sounded nice – lots of sitting around drinking wine on each other’s porch. Then it became exchanging keys, not just to water the plants when one is out of town but more like texting each other when running late so the other can let the dog out etc. And now it’s more of a – they come and go from each other’s homes non stop whether the home owner is there or not; they’ll go in to use each other’s home gym; have removed the fence between yards so entering thru the front and pack; most of the shopping is done together – either at the store together or more of a WE are out of apples and buying what either household needs – and then feeling free to go next door to get an apple; putting each other down on curbside orders so they pick up each other’s orders; at least 4-5 dinners per week are cooked and eaten together and holidays will be shared together.

    I stayed with the single woman for a few days last week (my cousin) and IDK something about this seemed so intense. In a way it’s nice because my cousin always wanted a family and these folks are nice (and while she has extended family like cousins, we live across the country so it’s not day to day interactions beyond text etc though she is certainly invited for all holidays). And yet it also feels like some kind of weird 3 person relationship. Like do the married couple never want to be alone? Not even for intimacy but sometimes you want to talk about your awful boss, finances, or family issues without sharing them with anyone else – who could barge in at any moment. Would you suspect they’re an actual couple? You’d keep quiet right? I want my cousin to be happy and she is but I also don’t want her hurt in any way/financially taken advantage of etc. but then I think – she’s an adult, certainly they’ve worked out some kind of cost sharing given that they’re eating dinner together 4 nights/week and grocery shopping for each other.

    • Anon

      My uncle is in a friendship/relationship like this, and guess what? I never think about it. He’s happy, they’re happy, and I emphatically do. not. want. to. know. what goes on in his bedroom. Kindly, stop being so nosy and let your cousin live her life.

    • Anonymous

      Why does it matter to you? If they’re in a relationship, or just good friends, who cares as long as she is happy? Did she indicate she isn’t?

    • Anon

      I barely know the names of my neighbors, but this sounds really nice to me and I think it’s weird that you’re so worked up about it. I have no idea why you’d assume there is something s3xual going on!? Can people not be close friends anymore?

      • Anonymous

        It does sound nice to me, kind of like the friendships you’d have in the college dorms but as 50 somethings with households, so people aren’t barging into each others dorm rooms but rather into kitchens and if they’re hungry, grabbing an apple. But IDK in 2021 VERY few people would just have this kind of set up with people who merely bought the house next door (as opposed to people who’ve been besties since age 3 in a small town) because they’re lonely and want a family structure. I think you have to assume there’s something more.

        • Anon

          If they’re all childfree and have hit it off, I don’t think it’s that weird. A lot of mid-life people without kids spend more effort trying to build a chosen family for themselves than people with kids do. If there were kids involved it would be weirder to me, because most parents of young kids are pretty consumed by their kids and don’t have time for this kind of intense friendship.

    • Anonymous

      I mean likely yes this is some kind of couple because no one wants to spend that much time with any FRIEND no matter how much of a family relationship you’ve established; all people like time apart from their friends, even extroverts and no one wants to be running and picking up Target orders for a friend on the regular – unless said friend is paying them which doesn’t sound like it here. But your instinct is right, she seems happy so ignore it and if you’re uncomfortable with it, maybe stay at a hotel next time so you don’t have to be in the middle of it.

    • Anonymous

      Sounds very sister wife; nothing wrong with that especially if all are happy, but yeah I’d be weirded out too.

    • Anon

      If all three of them are happy about the arrangement, whatever it is, good for them. For what it’s worth, I know several friends/neighbors like this. There’s one’s family they’re born into, and then there’s one’s family by choice.

    • Senior Attorney

      I have to admit I would be super intrigued, too, but obviously the one and only play here is to MYOB.

    • Anonymous

      Wow so your cousin generously hosted you and I’m exchange you’ve invented a whole scandalous back story for her?

    • Anonymous

      Would it be weird if the two women were sisters? Or if the single woman and the man were siblings? Could be sexual, but also could be golden girls, with a dude.

      • Natalie

        This is a good point. I don’t think this would be that unusual among siblings, and also a lot less unusual in countries other than the US. This arrangement sounds like it works and sounds lovely tbh. People living in extended families houses get private time, so if the couple wants that I’m sure they manage it.

    • Anon

      Why in gods name would you think your opinion on this matters? It’s not your business.

    • Anon

      They may be good friends. It may be a throuple or swinging situation. It may be that the husband and wife are bored with just each other’s company (I see this with my retired parents) and welcome having another person around to talk to. Whatever it is, this isn’t your business. The answer to your question about “you’d keep quiet, right?” is an emphatic YES. You will absolutely not contribute in a positive way to your relationship with your cousin if you start asking nosy questions. Let her live her life. If she wants to share something with you she will.

      FYI older people living in a throuple (or more) situation has become more and more common in my area (Southwest). I dunno if I’d be into it but there are definite advantages I can see from not having a relationship be 100% about a 1-1 dynamic all the time. Also older people are then able to share household costs, caregiving responsibilities, have built-in travel partners, have the security of living with or proximal to others, etc. It’s not actually all about sex and from a couple people I’ve talked to (who volunteered info about their situation) sex is really not any kind of central focus for these folks. More that the expanded relationship offers myriad benefits to them and they enjoy it. And for me there doesn’t need to be any additional justification or explanation.

  24. Kristina

    I am in-house counsel for a cannabis company. So tie-dye would be totally cool for me to wear to work.

  25. Vamisole colour under white

    What colour camisole is it more acceptable to wear under a slightly sheer white or cream blouse to work – white or close to your skintone? I haven’t had to make that choice for years but I recently bought a cream shitt I love thst isnslightly see-through… Enough that the silouette of even a skintone bra would show.

    • Camisole colour under white

      And clearly that should have been “camisole” not “vamisole”… ugh…

    • Cat

      I personally prefer a hint of contrast so that no one is wondering if it’s my skin they’re seeing or a cami. I find that light or medium gray works surprisingly well for underneath white – it’s clear there is a cami under there but it’s not as harsh of a line as a bright white or cream under-layer.

    • Anon

      One of the few times I saw a stylist she recommended matching cami to my pants. So black pants, sheer white top, black camisole. It creates a long, lean line. These days I do it more with navy blue, but it still works.

      • anon

        I’m having a hard time visualizing this. Is part of the cami visible at the top? I think that could look okay, but I am confused about how having a dark cami under a light top would create a long line; if anything, it seems it would be visually jarring.

        • Anon

          The jarring line is where the white top stops and the black pants end. So by having a black cami under the sheer white top, you have a black silhouette underneath that goes bascially from your chest to your ankles, which is the slimming column of color concept. It works. If the blouse is very sheer you can see the column. If the blouse is not all that sheer then you can’t see the cami anyway, but in n that case I’d pair it with lighter pants like grey in order not to cut the body in half. And I’d wear a gray cami.

    • anon

      Something close to my skin tone usually works better than stark white or cream.

    • Anonymous

      I usually go with white. If it’s thin enough that you need a cami, you want it to be obvious you’re wearing a cami; it looks odd if you look like you have nothing on underneath and just sort of lack definition. Like you’re a mannequin that’s come to life.

  26. Anon

    Prosecutor here looking to make a career pivot to somewhere out of criminal law. I’m a great investigator and great in the courtroom but just burned out dealing with so much violence (I’ve spent 10+ years working on DV and homicides). I want a job where no one cries in my office. How am I even supposed to know what other kind of work I might want to do? I keep reading job postings and nothing is calling to me, and there’s very little I feel qualified for because my experience is so specific. A number of colleagues have gone on to insurance litigation or fraud investigation/compliance at banks but that doesn’t appeal. I don’t really have other ideas. Does anyone have any advice or stories to share?

    • Anon

      Could you go white collar in a firm? Your trial experience would be a plus, knowledge of criminal code, but it would be a different type of offense and on the other side.

    • Anonymous

      Do you want to stay in litigation? It sounds like the roles you aren’t interested are in-house—does litigation at a firm or in a different government context appeal to you? In my state you would be a good candidate for a job in a number of state agencies or city attorney’s offices, and of course there are federal jobs as well.

    • Same

      tagging as I, too, am a burned out prosecutor considering a pivot – but to what?!

    • Anon

      How about doing criminal appellate work for your state? It doesn’t solve the violence upset, but you are far enough removed that no one will be crying in your office.

    • anon

      How about doing criminal appellate work for your state? It doesn’t solve the violence upset, but you are far enough removed that no one will be crying in your office.

    • Elsbeth

      In house police legal advisor? They’ve been around for years, but I’m seeing more and more cities have them. I do a lot of on the fly advice for officers in the field, written legal updates of case law and new legislation and in-service training. I also defend or manage outside counsel for civil litigation. I also have to review contracts and prepare resolutions but I think that’s somewhat less common for PLAs. Nobody cries in my office. My background is former prosecutor, former civil deputy AG.

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