Coffee Break: Varla Heels
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Marc Fisher LTD's Zala heel has been a reader favorite for years; this year in the NAS they're offering the Varla heel, which is very similar — I think the Varla primarily has a more almond-shaped toe (the Zala is more pointy). The Varla is also slightly higher than the Zala, clocking in at 3″ compared to the Zala's 2.75″ heel.
The shoes are available in burgundy, dark blue, dusty pink, and black, and beige (all suede), as well as a black leather version. The heels will be $89 in the sale, $150 after. (There are select colors and lucky sizes of Zala marked down as low as $60, also!)
Psst: here are ALL our favorite shoes for work in the 2023 Nordstrom Anniversary Sale!
Sales of note for 3/21/25:
- Nordstrom – Spring sale, up to 50% off: Free People, AllSaints, AG, and more
- Ann Taylor – 25% off suiting + 25% off tops & sweaters + extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 40% off everything + extra 20% off
- Eloquii – $39+ dresses & jumpsuits + up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – 25% off select linen & cashmere + up to 50% off select styles + extra 40% off sale
- J.Crew Factory – Friends & Family Sale: Extra 15% off your purchase + extra 50% off clearance + 50-60% off spring faves
- M.M.LaFleur – Flash Sale: Get the Ultimate Jardigan for $198 on sale; use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy 1 get 1 50% off everything, includes markdowns
I like a burgundy pump, too, but not in suede for me.
I love it in suede. It is one of my favorite colors that can cross all seasons, when you style it well. And it is unique.
My favorite is when I wear it with a longer skirt that has an interesting print/florals, and the burgundy pulls a color out of the print. Even in spring/summer, it works so well. Something about the darker color close to the ground works even when your overall look is lighter.
A friend asked for suggestions for non-fast fashion places to shop for her business casual job (librarian) and then offered this site as an example of clothes that she really, really likes. I’m at a loss — any suggestions that are similar? (We’re 45, fwiw.)
https://modernvagabondclothing.com/collections/ready-to-ship
Go away troll.
Op here – I swear to you this was a real question my friend asked on social media. She does circus/pole stuff in her free time so I can understand why she’s drawn to this, but… how she thinks it’s appropriate for a law school library is beyond me.
OMG stop.
Lololol
Wow! This is very not safe for work!
am I missing something? it just looks like ugly club clothes to me.
Send her to the FFA subreddit. The hyper niche/nonexistent fashion categories are a riot. “What’s the library-friendly biz casual version of electronica festival wear?”
I sometimes read that sub for entertainment because omg, where are these people going, and what are they doing?
Obvious spam is obvious
PLITK
Is she a librarian in a night club?
Pervert be gone!
To the woman who talks in her sleep… this is a medical issue but how much intervention you may need is a matter of degree. The short of it is that you most likely aren’t getting quality sleep. Before you shell out $1k in a sleep study, though, I’d recommend keeping a sleep journal. You can search what things to include but definitely include bed time, wake time, if you woke up at all (for me, I pretty much totally forgot about any night wakings the moment I got out of bed, that’s how fast you forget), how long it takes you to fall asleep, and I’d also include things like medication, food, water, alcohol, and even temperature. Are you falling asleep because you are SO exhausted — that may mask that you are stressed or handling something not well in waking life (like alcohol, certain foods, etc.) but you are dead tired that you fall asleep when your head hits the pillow. In a situation like that, meditating or clearing your mind even for 2 minutes before bed could help because your brain is possibly needing to sort out everything on your mind but isn’t getting deep enough sleep to accomplish that in deep REM so it’s coming out at a more surface level sleep to the point that you are talking.
I have been a sleep talker — and sleep walker — and my sleep study was inconclusive. Only after that did they recommend I keep a sleep diary for 30 days and I feel like that should have been the first step!
If you don’t want to go to the trouble of keeping a journal and are willing to shell out a few bucks, a Fitbit will keep track of your sleep for you.
your iphone can do this too.
My husband decided to track his sleep using the iphone. It can play back recordings of you snoring, so presumably it could do the same for sleep talking.
Unfortunately, in my husband’s case, the snoring was coming from his bed partner, me, and I asked him to stop because I felt like I was being recorded without my consent haha.
She said it’s about once a year, though.
Has anyone successfully changed the way you sleep? My husband is trying to change from a side sleeper to a back sleeper.
Tell him he’s not allowed to sleep on his back.
Signed, when I was pregnant and not supposed to sleep on my back it was the only thing I wanted.
The old advice for snorers was to sew a golf ball (or something similarly uncomfortable) into the back collar of your pj’s.
Yes, I did. I used to sleep on my stomach or side and I now primarily sleep on my back. I knew sleeping on my back was better for me. I eventually had an illness where I had an infusion pump attached to me for a week at a time, once a month, for six months. The design of the pump prohibited me from sleeping in any other way but on my back, so it was a good retraining opportunity.
I probably sleep on my back most of the night, but when I really struggle to fall asleep I do still sleep on my stomach or side. I do normally switch to my back now even if I start on my stomach/side which is interesting.
Comment in mod which you should disregard because I got your question backwards. D’oh!
I’m in the process of doing this now. It’s hard! I just make myself start that way every night to get used to it. I got some new pillows to support the sides of my body and head which is helping.
I have no silver bullet, I’m just trying and it is maybe starting to work…
I had to be a back sleeper while recovering from surgery and found that a neck pillow was helpful (like a travel kind). I could support my cheeks the way I normally did when sleeping on my side, which “tricked” me.
Does anyone have a recommendation for a home health service that covers Albuquerque? I am on the other side of the country and all of these services seem to be very, very local. TIA!
I had a good experience with Compassus in Santa Fe last year. Different office, but same company.
Thank you!
Even if the care you’re looking for won’t be covered by Medicare, this is a helpful resource for clinical and satisfaction metrics: https://www.medicare.gov/care-compare/
Good luck!
Thanks! Very helpful.
Popping in after 8+ months away because a few people have emailed and asked me to say hello. I had to drop off after being here since the beginning because the mean rude stuff was really feeling impactful even though I know it’s just online and whatnot. Mental health protection has to come first, right?! As for the update, I turned 40, I put out my 4th book via my publisher, I just landed a job that’s a dream (though salary isn’t great, the role really is), and I’m dating someone who looks like he very well might stick indefinitely.
That said, since I know how many compare self to others… 40 happened with or without my approval so I decided to get on board with it and the 4th book took me 30+ years of writing every single day to earn contracts to write books. The dream job came after over 8 yrs and 350 applications and I’ll still need to work a 2nd and maybe 3rd job for a while. The guy came via an app when I was giving it one month paid before deciding to let dating go for at least a few years. We surprised one another. It’s not without growing pains though!
I really appreciate those who have chosen to stay in touch. I really do enjoy so much of this place, it’s just too hard for me to live in the world as brutal as it is for so many and then also have to worry about someone being hateful because I asked about shoes or because someone mentioned thinking of cutting their hair or something. I may pop in periodically, but if you want to stay in touch, I hope you will! IAmAnEpicWarrior@ g mail <3
PS For those who haven't seen the documentary "Below the Belt" (check on pbs website I think), you absolutely should, as should anyone with a uterus and anyone who loves someone with a uterus. Much of the story is identical to mine and I know to some others who are here. I hope it brings education and healing! <3
Been here for 13 years, though always Anon. Good to hear from you and glad you’re well :)
Oh my goodness, I was literally just thinking about you last night and wondering if you were still around as Anon. You might have not seen it but there was a lot of support for you after that nasty thread incident. Some people on here are nasty, but a lot of people on here love and support you! Thank you for the update and I am so glad to hear life is going well for you!! Yay!
So good to hear this update! You have been missed – you don’t “know” me because I am always anon, but I have always loved reading your kind and thoughtful comments on threads! Glad you are well!
Aww thank you so much for the update! I am genuinely so happy you’re doing so well and it has made my day to know that so many things are working out for you! You are a wonderful, wise, super kind-hearted person and I want you to be in community that gives you energy and love (even if it’s not here!). Sending lots of love <3
Yay on all counts (except for the mean girls, obvs)!!
You deserve all the good things!!
I’m so glad to see you again! I’m sorry folks went after you. I’ll drop you a line. So glad the dream job finally came along!
I am so so happy to hear about the dream job!!! Congratulations!!!
Has anyone stopped drinking while a spouse continues to binge drink? I really, really need to quit, and have for 6 weeks, but it’s hard with him still drinking.
If not drinking is important to you, this may not be the relationship for you. But try Al Anon.
It’s so, so hard. I’ve been living this since 2020 when my husband’s drinking increased exponentially and while it’s gotten better I still think he drinks way too much. I don’t want to go cold turkey but wish we could support each other on a healthier lifestyle.
He cut back some while I was pregnant but mostly drank after I went to bed. Honestly separation in the evenings is the only way I can avoid the pressure to drink.
He has to be respectful. When DH wants to drink heavily on a night when I have to work the next day, he sleeps on the couch (or in another bedroom but he loves that couch). He’s up way later than I am anyway. And he recognizes that a drunk person coming to bed will be louder than they think they are. It’s not perfect but it mostly works. I can’t be around a very drunk person when I’m sober without being annoyed, so I usually go to bed early and enjoy some quiet time to myself.
By contrast, I had an ex who would habitually drink on weeknights and also get butthurt that I wouldn’t stay up with him and I wouldn’t let him in the bedroom. He snored badly on a good day, but it was really bad when he drank. He was also handsy when drunk. No sorry you’re not entitled to disrupt my sleep more nights than not because you wanted to drink.
I’m over a year sober and my spouse is a cyclical drinker (nothing for a bit, weeks of very reasonable drinking, eventually a week or two of way too much, repeat). I never asked them to stop, although they did for the first few weeks, and the only alcohol in the house is stuff I really do not like.
At this point, I almost never want a drink and seeing them very drunk just reinforces that. I did go cold turkey but never committed to no alcohol ever. At first I kept telling myself if I really wanted it that bad I could get a drink tomorrow, and then talked myself it to one more day. AA was not for me and I do better not focusing on it instead of ruminating on it and feeling deprived.
It’s irritating to babysit a drink spouse, but hardly a deal breaker. Spouse does not become mean or try to drive, we’re childfree, and it’s not causing employment issues or marital strife. It may become a problem later, and I am worried about future health issues, but I married a multifaceted person with flaws (just like they did) and there’s plenty of awesome in there to balance this out.
Many women are able to get sober with the help of AA no matter what their circumstances. If you are working a program, what your husband is doing will not be relevant. On the other hand, if he is drinking alcoholically and your lives revolved around getting drunk, then your marriage might not survive your sobriety. Just go to a meeting and get a sponsor!
I have no advice but want to offer you solidarity and props. It sounds like the situation you’re in lets you see why deciding to drink seems like a good idea, and the repercussions of that choice.
Help me think through this.
My elderly parents live a plane trip away. Due to some parental health issues, I will be flying in to spend maybe 5 days a month. Due to their issues, my guess is that I give the one who is more of a caregiver a break by going to any needed medical appointments for the parent who is actively ill (cancer), cleaning, shopping, and just providing company. Also maybe noting items that may be helpful to have: recent one was getting long charging cords for phones to use at chemo (and upgrading to an ipad for a larger screen).
What else? They live in a rural area, so just driving is a chore for older people. They no longer go to church, which they used to love due to not feeling well enough to sit though it (they watch on line) and be gone that long because they both tire easily.
I’d love it if they’d move to my city or someplace easier for them to live in, but one parent is likely terminal and the other won’t move, so I’m trying to keep them safe and comfortable for the next 2-3 (likely lifespan of the parent with cancer). I will make sure to meet the new neighbors on one side that I don’t know yet.
Would they have friends from church that they would like to visit but haven’t been able to due to the stress of driving?
IDK — their church is in a different county and they very much do not like to trouble people. Their peers are generally in the same boat. I will see if we can’t discuss at least now while it’s not sleeting / snowing, which are legitimate constraints starting in a few months.
I have one sibling, but in an in-person job further away, so I will be going more since I can work remotely (and have long wanted to be 3/4 time not a FTE) and am not changing planes or time zones.
Can you reach out to the church/pastor? There are likely volunteers/deacons who can visit or arrange for others to visit them.
+1 My church has a group of volunteers who do home visits.
This is my suggestion as well – pastors and/or our “healing prayer” team often do this kind of home visit for elderly parishioners who want it.
Just to clarify, we’re Episcopalians so all in on science, it’s just the (unwieldy) name of our church’s lay moni
Ministry, gah.
What we did for my grandma when someone came to visit about once every two months (everyone was a plane flight away). Bought all the big heavy things (e.g., birdseed, salt for winter) and the not heavy things (toilet paper, paper towels) – think your usual nesting at Costco as you are driving in. Make note of what they need and amazon stuff later.
Fixed everything that needed to be fixed around the house (we are all decently handy – just walk around and make note of the list). Decorated for the upcoming holidays / spruced up the garden for the upcoming season. Eventually, she just started making us honey-do lists for the visits.
Also, on the church side, call their church. Chances are there is an outreach program where someone (even the priest) can come visit every once and a while, and depending on their faith, you can get communion at home.
+1 call the church. I am not religious, however my parents and grandparents both are in different religions/churches – this is a situation where most churches will want to help. When they ask, “what can we do to help?” be ready with a list – they really mean it when they want to help but just need to know what is help, and what is not. Tell them that visits, meals, communion/sacrament at home, etc. would be very appreciated. People who live in rural areas are used to driving; the different county thing wouldn’t phase me.
Seconding this. Visiting and assisting shut is a significant part of what good churches do. A local, rural church that is quite small got rid of a priest a few years ago because he was lax on visiting and pastoring shut ins. It’s an important part of what (good) churches do.
Shut ins, bleh for no ability to edit.
First of all, I am so sorry that your family is going through this. You’re doing the right thing, but I want to remind you to keep checking in with how you’re feeling. It’s easy to get caught up in taking care of others and pushing down our own emotions, but that doesn’t make them go away. Make sure your circle of support knows what you’re going through and don’t hesitate to lean on them.
Medical stuff: When you’re there, have your sick parent sign off on the HIPAA paperwork allowing their doctors to share medical information with you. Make a contact list of all doctors and facilities involved in your parent’s treatment and make sure you’re introduced at all of them. Ask their doctor if home health might be indicated and, if it is, vet agencies for them.
Home stuff: If you cook, make large batches and stock the freezer with easy meals. If you don’t, shop for same. Make sure that your parent who isn’t ill is getting the care and support they need, from going to their own doctor’s appointments to getting a haircut or getting out to see friends. If you don’t know, find out if they have planned their estate, and if they haven’t, try to help get it done. It’s awful, but it’s even more awful dealing with it without a will in place.
Also on the medical front— make a list of all their meds and doses. If they don’t have this for themselves, make one for them to keep as well and ask them to get a nurse to update it if anything changes. This worked really well for both my parents, and we were thankful to have it several times.
If they live in an area with Lasagna Love volunteers, they can request (or you can request on their behalf) a hot ready to eat lasagna delivered to their door once a month. There’s a little coordinating with the volunteer to select the time and place of drop off (the meals are dropped at the residence, coordination for things like just leave it on the porch or please ring the door bell.
Hiring a health aide and/or housekeeper once a week? Someone who comes by weekly to take them shopping+ to appointments or to clean up + generally check in on?
Hiring a contractor (especially one that specializes in disability) to add a taller toilet seat+ grab bars rated for weight + possibly a roll in shower+ a stair lift if a wheelchair is in the future?
Consulting an eldercare attorney to make sure they have living will + DNR/DNI if they want that, and a financial person since getting old+ sick is expensive?
Bringing a puzzle or a scrap book project or a board game style thing to do?
Does their county offer much in the way of elder services? Some counties may have services to help transport them to appointments or provide services for their entertainment. I also second the comments about reaching out to the church. The priest / pastor can come visit themselves and can also set up an outreach so that members of the church come and visit them too.
Is there a meals on wheels or similar program in their area? That would help with meals and cooking when you’re not there.
Your parents seem pretty tech savvy, if Amazon or Walmart is a good option in their area, could you set up subscribe and save for household goods and non-perishable foods?
I have recently gotten a few older relatives set up on streaming services, downloading e books from the library and listening to podcasts, not sure if you’re parents would enjoy any of that when you’re not visiting.
Finally, is there anything you can set up now for a worst case scenario. We always joked that my grandparents were put together one healthy person; they could get on just fine when both of them were healthy but if one was out of commission, then everything fell apart. So, if your healthier parent gets the flu, how does your cancer patient parent get to chemo? If your healthier parent has something more seriously wrong (broken foot, heart attack, etc), how do things work at home (not just getting to chemo, but also how do they get to the hospital, how does your other parent visit them, who is cooking, who is making sure everyone gets their meds on schedule). It’s absolutely not a fun conversation, but it’s an important one.
RTO is coming for me in September, 3 days a week. I also have a trip coming up at the end of October, where I will be using a carry-on and personal item.
I’d like to find a backpack I could use for both the office and occasional travel. Office dress code is business casual/dress for your day (jeans are fine).
I’m looking at the Beis Backpack (a TikTok video put this on my radar) or one from Dagne Dover. I know DD is recommended a lot around here – anyone have any experience with Beis? I don’t have the budget (or desire, really) to spend Tumi money.
I’ll use this 3 days a week. Laptop, notebook, planner, pens. Water bottle. Maybe a sweater/layer for AC. I’ll have a lunch bag of some sort. Possibly a change of clothes if I decide to use the on-site gym at all.
For trips, it would hold kindle, liquids, small things like that.
I have a few Nordstrom gift cards (probably around $100) I’ve been hanging onto, so I’d like to buy there.
BEIS backpack (mesh) is cute but bad quality.
Osprey DayLite Plus is great for the list of stuff you mention.
Not at Nordstroms (though they carry a bunch of other backpacks by them), but I love my Timbuktu convertible backpack – https://www.timbuk2.com/collections/all-backpacks/products/3550-scheme-convertible-briefcase-backpack
I have had it since 2018 and it holds a ton, easily fits under a plane seat, and is easy to clean.
Hit enter too soon – it looks new. My husband has a Timbuk2 messenger bag for several years longer and it also looks great, and he is tough on bags.
Samsonie has a few cute women’s day backpacks (not big enough to pack for a whole trip). They are black nylon, very professional, dupes of bags that are hundreds of dollars more (like Tumi). They have thoughtful pockets and are not huge, hiker-looking outdoorsy packs. I love mine. You can often get them for 30% off at ebags. Recommend.
I’m starting to go camping with some camping friends. I am a stomach sleeper and the camping world seems to be for side sleepers. Should I try a hammock or is that going in the wrong direction? I am a side sleeper once it gets very cold, but a stomach sleeper when it is hot (in part because my hips can get sore from side sleeping — guess I’m getting old and creaky).
I still sleep on my stomach while camping. I’m not sure why you can’t do it unless you spread your legs and can’t fit in a sleeping bag? I car camp, so I usually inflate an air mattress using my car. I’ve also used a self-inflatable ground mat. In the summer, I never sleep inside of a sleeping bag (too hot). I just use a sheet.
No don’t do a hammock! Why can’t you sleep on your belly in a tent?
I’m a side sleeper who doesn’t sleep on my side while camping because my hip is bony and it’s too hard on my hip, even with a sleeping pad.
+1 from a side sleeper who can’t even sleep on my side on firm mattresses in hotels.
I just upgraded my sleeping pad to an Exped double, and it is amazing. I can sleep on my side with no issues, don’t fall off the pad during the night, can roll around, and all the sleeping things. Plus my dog fits on it with me.
Inspired by this morning’s thread and because I wasn’t dressed for the day yet (west coast) I am now dressed in pieces I haven’t worn since 2019. A flowy top, a longer cardigan, a burgundy skirt from MM La Fleur and slingblack pumps. To work from home, but this was my everyday officewear in 2019 and prior in my business casual office.
I really wanted to ask myself why I’m holding on to some of my older pieces. I feel like a relic. I can repurpose the shoes and top but the rest goes to Goodwill.
Has anyone had to do DISC personality assessment for work? I know it’s probably not that big a deal but I’m feeling weirdly stressed about it.
Yep, a few years ago. I forgot I had to take it until about 10 minutes before the professional development session started – I did it so fast that it actually felt accurate (I usually overthink these things). It was mildly insightful. Are you doing this for your current role or is it part of an interview process?
I have. I don’t think it told me anything I didn’t already know about myself, but it did help me understand my teammates’ tendencies a little better.
Many years ago, that one is fun. It’s light Meyers Briggs.
Yep, I’m as hard a D as D’s can be. It’s basically a business horoscope with no wrong answers.
My entire team was D except for one poor guy who was a C. He left within a year.
You guys must be locking horns all the time! haha
We do it on our teams at work and new hires will do it as a group together. Highlighted some areas for me that I already knew about myself in some ways but wasnt fully recognizing. We mainly use it for teams to get to know one another and discuss working and communication styles. My immediate team skews heavily towards C vs a team we work closely with is I and D heavy. Makes sense for the work each team does…
I did it once. Thought it was fun.
I did it, but I don’t remember the results. You being stressed about it is probably part of the personality they’re trying to diagnose – doesn’t mean it’s bad, probably means you’re a careful person who is concerned with doing things correctly. These are good traits.
I took a free one today. Mine is Influence almost tied with Dominance. Here’s the blurb: “You are socially oriented. You have a strong self-motivation to get to know people in all walks of life and to nurture those relationships. You have a natural enthusiasm for all types of ideas and projects – your own and other people’s. People are likely to describe you as gregarious, persuasive and optimistic.”
I mean, these things are always flattering but I see myself in the enthusiasm and the relationships. This one didn’t mention my downfalls, which can sometimes be steamrolling over people and sometimes overpromising.
But in the old Meyers Briggs system I was an ENTP so this feels consistent with that one.
Does anyone here have Cushing’s disease? I have gained a ton of weight lately and have a lot of the symptoms for Cushings. I have a doctor appointment this week where I specifically said I want to be tested for this, so any ideas on how to make that happen would be helpful.
I feel very “off” and with the way healthcare is now, it’s so frustrating not having a definitive problem to point to and get fixed.
No, but I had a super rare different adrenal tumor that took forever to get diagnosed. Keep pushing! Sometimes people actually have the rare thing.
Can anyone recommend a good place to look for a well-constructed, classic leather bag for work?
About me: mid-to-late 30s lawyer in Northern VA. Not a litigator, but attend client meetings and government hearings. The ideal bag would be able to accommodate a large laptop and padfolio, and have some internal compartments.
I’m currently carrying a Kate Spade shopper style bag (purchased on deep discount when I was A government attorney) that is showing its age, and would be willing to spend more to get something quality that will last.
Thanks in advance – I moved into the private sector from government about 2.5 years ago, so this is all relatively new to me.
Cuyana tote is my go-to recommendation, but I don’t know that it will accommodate a large laptop. Especially not with the insert, which gives you some internal compartments. How large is your laptop? If it’s really big, I’m not sure you’re going to find what you’re looking for in a leather tote.
It’s about 14.5”. It looks like the Cuyana would be perfect – thanks! I’d never heard of the brand.
I used to recommend Cuyana, but find their quality could be better recently. I just got a bag from Mulberry (recommended here) and the quality is exceptional, though it’s a bit more expensive. The Lo and Sons Seville was also recommended and looked nice, but I couldn’t get past the gold hardware.
Thank you!
Unless you are a STEM student or professor, does it matter much of your school is R1 or R2? I went to a small college and loved the small science classes there (versus large lecture hall classes) but IDK that that is true anywhere outside of freshman seminars. I’m s friends with two professors who mention this a LOT but IDK what it really means.
I don’t think so unless you’re getting a phd in STEM.
It doesn’t matter unless you’re going for a STEM PhD. For undergrad, I’d recommend against an R1. At my R1, even upper division computer science classes sometimes had 100 students and seminar type classes had at least 30. As an undergrad in that environment, you really have to be assertive about advocating for yourself, which most 18-22 year olds aren’t.
Small liberal arts colleges (SLACs) that don’t award PhDs are in a different category. R2 is PhD-granting institutions that don’t have as much research $$ as R1s. They’re often relatively large institutions and aren’t particularly known for keeping class sizes down. Many State Us have campuses on both lists. E.g., the University of Texas has five R1 campuses, including Austin, and two R2 campuses.
But either way I don’t think it matters a whole lot outside of academia. I’m a professor’s wife and yes professors use these terms a lot, but it doesn’t really matter.
I’ve been married for 15 years. We have one child. She’s about five years away from graduating high school. Husband has long been lowkey annoyed with me as a person, for example, I’m too loud or not chatty enough or not social enough or not concerned enough with losing the (admittedly large) amount of weight I’ve gained over the years or too opinionated or weird or to bookish, etc. It sucks to be married to someone who maybe loves you but doesn’t necessarily like you. I don’t see divorce as an option solely because I don’t think I could possibly live without seeing my kid full time. I think about divorce once she’s older. Just need to hear if anyone else is dealing with this.
I think you should not waste 5 more years of your life with this person. But start with marriage counseling.
I divorced my first husband because everything was always my fault. It took a lot of years post-marriage to make me realize that not everything was in fact my fault. I still have a tendency to go there mentally. This stuff imprints on you.
I have a few friends whose parents divorced while they were in college and it was very hard. In some ways it’s harder than a divorce while you still live at home, because it’s obvious to the child they were the reason the divorce was delayed and that can feel like kind of a big burden. Just something to think about, that you’re potentially not making things easier on your child by delaying.
I have a good friend whose parents stayed together until he was just done with high school and he never really got over it because he felt so betrayed. I know it feels impossible but I think there are many ways to deal with this that don’t involve putting up with a marriage you don’t want to be in. Maybe counseling for yourself can be step one. Talking to your spouse about this at some point before graduation is going to be necessary.
Anecdotally, I’ve observed that the people who experienced parents’ divorce when they were in the age 17-22 range have fared far worse emotionally than the kids who had time to adjust to a changed reality while they were still living at home. They feel betrayed on a whole other level, and it affects how they feel about romantic relationships during a pivotal life stage.
If you’re in a miserable marriage, don’t wait until the kids have moved in. Sounds nice in theory but not in reality
Along with what others have said, don’t waste 5 years of your life being miserable. I’d look into couples therapy and if you still feel this way in a year, get divorced. Make it as easy as possible on your daughter as in try not to make her move and switch schools when she only has a few years left.
One of the best things you can do for your kids is figure out how to be happy yourself and sometimes this means getting divorced. My heart broke for you reading this, you don’t deserve to live this way.
Amen to this.
My parents stayed together “for the kids” and finally divorced after my little brother had left the house. It has had a direct, negative impact on my relationships. I would have much rather seen them apart and in happy, healthy relationships that I could model mine after. Yes, there are logistics and it is hard to be divorced parents. But consider the message you are sending to them. What I got was that you should tolerate unhappiness, verbal abuse, disrespect for the sake of other people and doing what is socially appropriate (at that time getting divorced was a much bigger deal than it is now). I feel like I have no idea what a normal healthy relationship looks like, and thus I have never found myself in one.
+1
This exactly. Unfortunately, this is a terrible example for your daughter. She hears.
I have never had a normal relationship.
My childhood experience taught me bad things.
Never trust anyone, and never get married.
OMG I was married to somebody like that and I have also been a less-than-full-custody parent of a much-loved child, and believe me when I tell you from the bottom of my heart that the former was MUCH worse than the latter. I PROMISE.
My kid is almost 17 and he’s seeing some of his friends’ parents split up now, and more where his friends freely admit that they don’t think their parents will stay together once all the kids are out of the house. Kids are more perceptive than people give them credit for and I don’t know that all kids whose parents divorce when the kid is in college are blindsided by it.
I know people will say “go to counseling” but to me, there’s a question I would ask my spouse before I even broached the idea of counseling, which is: are you still in this with me; do you want to stay married or not? Because if you’re basically done and he’s basically done, just get a divorce. Things will not get any better if you wait. (And FYI, you’re getting to a stage where your kid will not want to spend as much time with you anyway, or will be busy with their own stuff. And at this age I believe courts take into consideration who the child wants to live with, moreso than when kids are younger, so now might be a good time. It may get messier if you get into a particularly challenging teenage stage.)
If he does want to stay married, then both of you need to work on the marriage, which may not have received attention in some time. Then that’s when you can say, I think we should go to counseling. Because counseling will only work if each person is still at least somewhat committed to continuing the marriage, and from what I’m hearing, that’s not where you’re at (and I don’t blame you). And I say all this as someone who, at one point, had to ask my own husband this question. He was shocked, FYI, that I was even thinking about divorce, even though things had not been great for awhile. We went to counseling and got back on track and we’re good now, but that’s my story and I don’t know enough about yours to posit whether that outcome is viable for you.
My blunt $.02: I think sometimes people tell themselves “I’m staying in this for my kid(s)” when in actuality, they are scared of getting divorced, living on their own, going through the split, etc. But that’s going to be a band-aid rip whether you do it now or later. So just rip it off now. There is basically no such thing as a divorce that doesn’t affect a kid, but there’s also no such thing as a bad marriage that doesn’t affect a kid, one way or another. You’re in a crappy situation where the only way out is through, as SA says. So figure out the best way through.
Not the OP, but this comment inspired me to ask my husband that very question yesterday. It needed to be asked and I was putting it off. Your comment and brief explanation of your story gave me the courage to ask. Thank you.
Put an event in your calendar called “Deadline” for 3 to 6 months from now. Be direct and honest with your husband about the state of your marriage. Read books about marriage and divorce. Go to marriage counseling or individual therapy or both. Learn how to take care of yourself and voice your own needs. If your husband seriously tries to improve the marriage and himself by that deadline, decide whether you want to keep working on the marriage. If he does not, meet with a divorce lawyer and start that process.
Show your daughter how to value herself and make hard choices before she goes off to college and repeats this dynamic in her relationships.
In many ways, I think it’s better to divorce when the kids are in middle school/high school than after graduation. The kid gets a few years being welcomed at both homes. Divorcing the moment the high school diploma is in hand feels like saying to the kid that they are now an adult with no need for their family of origin, and can send really warped messages about how welcome they are to live at either home.
I have been the parent, and I have been the child, in this situation. Some facts:
* Your kid sees this happening and knows all about it. So don’t think that you are somehow preserving her innocence/childhood by waiting. She already knows the marriage is bad.
* Similarly, you are modeling marital behavior for her. Do you want her to learn that this is OK, or do you want her to learn that there are healthy marriages and unhealthy marriages and that she deserves a healthy one?
* She is 13. I promise you that she has developed object constancy and can go several days/a week without seeing one parent. I would recommend week on/week off (transferring via school on either Monday or Friday – one parent drops off that day and the other parent picks up that day until she is old enough to drive herself or take public transportation herself) with a mid-week dinner with the off parent. 2-2-5-5 is a nightmare for everyone involved.
I’m not sure there’s a recommended age-of-children for a divorce. I agree with others – please think about your kid here and what kind of stuff you are modeling for her. She deserves relationships with people who like and respect her, and so do you.
I think the best time is under age 5 or so; the child will really have no memories of the parents ever being together. Elementary school is apparently the “worst time”but anecdotally middle/high school and early adulthood are tough too.