Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Single Breasted Jacket

293 Comments

1. So how bout thrones last night? (Just kidding)

   1. Haha. (To be clear, this post contains no spoilers)

      But really, loved it. I like how even when I predict things that do happen, they normally happen with at least one twisty I did not see.

      I want to look back to the 2 truths and a lie game again (the one the actresses who play Sansa and Arya played on some show).

   2. I laughed. Thanks for cheering me up on a Monday!

   3. I want to talk about this for real. What are the rules for waiting? Are some people as slow to watch this as GRRM is in coming out with his next book?

      1. I’d give people a week before throwing out spoilers.

         1. Same. When I wait longer than that, I think it’s on me to avoid spoilers. Before that, it’s still on me but more aggravating when others don’t care.

            If you want to be kind, just put spoiler at the top and then space so they are warned.

2. I know this isn’t new, but I’m having a tough time dealing with stress right now. This isn’t something that’s been much of an issue for me in the past.

   I know I have to catch up on some things in my personal life (organizing, bills, medical, etc.) but tend to put myself last. I think my work stress leads to me not doing those things, which is not a good cycle.

   Worse/causing all this is my work stress. I’m having small scale anxiety attacks. There’s too much work, too little management, too little time. I work beyond what’s required (formally or informally) and still can’t do what they ask. To be clear, nobody here can, because what they are asking is literally impossible. Then we get punished for not achieving even though our department does more than any other – it’s just that our workload is too high. Before it was stressful but more rewarding but now they are pulling back on the rewarding areas. I care a LOT about my work, both in terms of it being important for clients and my putting out high quality product. I know I care too much but don’t know how to change that!

   I just don’t know what to do. I’ve done everything I could think of and nothing is working. I feel like I’m on the brink of breaking down. Leaving isn’t an option – I’m young in my career, planning a move in about a year (so don’t want two <1yr positions), and this is the top midlaw firm in the practice area in this region.

   1. Take it from someone who gained 50+ lbs in 2 years at a “top midlaw firm in the practice area in the region” and who is now dealing with serious health issues as a result… Nothing, NOTHING, about this job is worth sacrificing your health for. Leave. It’s ok to have a couple of short term positions on your resume early in your career. And it’s super unlikely your situation at this firm will ever get better now that they know you’re willing to go above and beyond and do more work with less resources.

      1. Thanks. I’m working out more and trying other stuff to combat the stress (and weight gain) but it’s good for me to hear this.

   2. Leaving is obviously an option. You talk about your job like you’re a social worker saving children’s lives. You are a junior associate in a mid-level firm. Call a recruiter today and say you want out.

      You’ve tried doing more and that obviously doesn’t work. Either way, all of the work isn’t getting done, and now you’re having panic attacks. Try doing less. Why are you working more than is even informally required? Again, you’re not saving lives here. Go home. Stop working. Triage. Do the most important things, document the rest.

      1. I appreciate your directness. I’m going to explain a little more in case that changes anything but really am thinking about what you said.

         I more so meant I’m trying to find solutions short of leaving. I also really love the work itself and my coworkers, which makes it tough to see myself leaving/working elsewhere. Something I need to get over, just not something I’ve felt in prior jobs. If things don’t get better, I agree that a job isn’t worth health and happiness, so I’ll need to get over that and search.

         The area I practice in does directly impact people’s welfare/ability to live, which is part of why it’s so important to and weighs heavily on me. It’s a really niche area, too, with all the pros and cons of that in a job search. I mean, I’m the type to care like this (as I think are many others on here), so I’d probably care too much in criminal or corporate work, too.

         I think I’m going to speak with the managing partner about things (there’s the typical lack of management causing miscommunication) but have to wait about a month for that (just timing of schedule and vacations). I don’t think much hiring happens in the summer anyway.

         Stupid question time: how do you go about finding a legal recruiter to work with? I’ve been told they find you once you’re at a point to move. I’ve only gotten the ones they seem to send to everyone, though, so I’m not sure. I’ve seen advice on how to pick, how to work with, etc but not how to find them! Searching online hasn’t really worked. (I was curious and just going through some searches and job postings.) Is LI a good place to find them? I know I’m connected with some there but, again, seems to be mass.

         I’ve tried doing less, I’ve tried doing more (which actually works for my commute better sometimes), nothing really works. Also, to be clear, I’m not the only one doing more – everyone at my level in my department (though a small group) is doing about the same at this point. We’re just all fed up. Clearly, this is not sustainable and something is going to happen.

         1. Even if your work REALLY matters, leaving is always an option. In the short term, take a random day off during the week to take care of all of the personal things that you have not been able to get done and to take a breather.

            1. +1 to this. Finding a good recruiter is going to be regional, but run a Google search for your area and see if some of the big shops have offices there. If you are not in the middle of nowhere, there will be plenty to pick from. Talk to several and see who you click with. You’ll want someone who has proven placements in your niche area, which shows that the in-firm recruiters will at least open their emails. If they don’t seem interested, that’s probably a sign that they don’t think a recruiter is the way to go for you. However, just because a recruiter isn’t interested DOES NOT mean that you aren’t marketable. It just means that for any number of reasons, usually the size of firm that works in your niche area, a firm doesn’t want to pay a head hunter for that level of experience/area of law.

               Start going to networking events also, it might be a little bit more fun than slaving away in your office. “Fun” being relative of course!

            2. Thanks, CountC. This is the kind of advice I was looking for on recruiters. I’m going to do this later.

               Also thanks for the information about if they aren’t interested. I would have taken it as not being particularly marketable!

            3. Thanks, Bonnie, I’m going to do this.

               I get that it’s an option, it’s just not something that I think is a good option right now for me. We’ll see, though. Looking at other options certainly can’t hurt.

            4. Oh, also, networking is one of the things that we’re not allowed to do anymore. So I just do it outside work hours but that doesn’t work for followups and such.

            5. I assume networking is always outside business hours these days as I am no longer in a traditional legal role! Why can’t you follow-up with a lunch or something like that? I get that it’s not something you can count towards billable hours (at least I think that is what you are saying), but it at least gets you out there and can help you identify other opportunities that wouldn’t be discovered through a recruiter or online job postings.

            6. Unfortunately, it’s not just that it doesn’t count towards billable time – they’ve told us absolutely no networking. They don’t want us to network outside of work, either, but they can’t really stop us. We rarely take lunches, but I’ve done so for networking and it didn’t go over well. Basically, there’s so much work they say they don’t want us doing anything else. (However, there’s confusion with this and that’s part of the management issues.) Though they still network. Because hypocrisy is fine.

               Believe me, I realize this is ridiculous (especially when they want is to elevate firm name/bring in business). It’s such a low part of what’s going on though since I’m working around it mostly that I’m not focused on it anymore.

               A lot of networking events also are during my official work hours, which makes it tougher.

               I’m going to work more on still networking whether or not I decide to leave. I hadn’t realized how little I’ve done lately.

         2. Especially if you are in a niche area, do you really need to work with a recruiter? Do you already know what employers do what it is you do? Can’t you just apply on your own? It removes the stress of having to deal with a third-party intermediary that you can’t really know if you trust or not. (I am in a niche area, really regretted working with a recruiter for a number of reasons, and I did a vetting process similar to what others here suggest.) Not saying to not use a recruiter, but I would at least consider the possibility.

            1. I’m not sure. I guess I’d look both ways. I know or can find most of the players, but it’s a lot of smaller places so tough to know whether or not they are hiring and I’m concerned about current employer finding out I’m looking. Would you mind telling me some of why you regret working with a recruiter or things you’d be wary of? I certainly understand if you don’t want to share here!

            2. With the warning that this is anecdotal, I regret it because I am in a niche area about knew/could easily find most of the players. And I did that through my own research, and I had a method of cutting out places that did not have a big enough group in my practice area.

               But I ended up using a recruiter at the urging of others, and he wasn’t really finding me the sort of opportunities I was looking for. Even after I would give him the names of firms I am interested in. This was also after meeting with half a dozen recruiters, mostly based on recommendations from colleagues, and going with him because he seemed the best (or the least bad). I ended up taking something that was less than optimal, but seemed OK. It wasn’t OK, and I left in a few months. I then went back to my own research, applied to a handful of more desirable places regardless of whether they had a job opening posted. I had several much better offers within a few months.

            3. Thanks so much for sharing. That’ll definitely make me think before relying on a recruiter.

               If I start looking, I’ll likely look on my own first and then speak to recruiters to see what they say just in case I’m missing anything. I’ll definitely keep your experience in mind, though, since I know my niche also works a little directly from the typical.

               On the plus side, I got some news today that might result in lightening the workload a little – something I absolutely did not expect to actually happen! So fingers crossed there.

   3. Do you work for my department? Seriously, I could have written this today. Just here to commiserate!

      1. I hope yours gets better soon! It’s so frustrating.

   4. I don’t work in law, so this advice might be totally non-applicable. However, I am in a high-stress job/situation that leaves me that what feels on the brink of a breakdown probably on a monthly basis. Which isn’t at all healthy, but I’m committed this job until the end of 2017. So I understand stress at a job that you feel like you can’t leave anytime soon. Last week it was really bad and I just took Wednesday off and it helped A TON. All of Monday and Tuesday I was on the verge of crying/crying (my stress/anger always manifests in crying, which is super annoying) in my office as I struggled to get stuff done. Sick day on Wednesday because I just couldn’t do it again. I did do some work on a big project on Wednesday, but just for a few hours and being home helped me to focus on just that. Thursday and Friday I felt much better, and got way more done. It didn’t feel like I had the time, but really my productivity was probably at about 10-15% on Monday/Tuesday, and back at about 95% on Thursday and Friday. If you give yourself space to recoup, you’ll be better at your job while you’re there.

      1. Man, I’m sorry you’re going through something similar as well. It’s so frustrating when work stress makes me less productive – I’m normally very productive but this whole situation turns into a bad cycle.

         Thanks for that advice. I think I do need a break – and not a weekend one (which is never really a break). I have a little spare vacation, so I might take a day next week to relax, catch up on personal stuff, etc. Hopefully it’ll help!

3. Just wanted to say everyone for your kind words Friday. I was a trainwreck and felt so guilty/awful.

   My husband has apologized and groveled–I think he was just so in shock–that little bird was his baby.

   Thank you for everyone being so understanding, and appreciating the grief associated with losing a pet

   1. *Just wanted to say thank you to everyone…I miss the edit feature

   2. I hope you’re feeling as much better as is possible. I’m sorry for your loss, but accidents happen and I hope you can internalize that.

      1. +1

   3. To add, I hope this is a good conversation starter about how each of you deals with emotions. It was really not OK for him to speak to you that way.

      1. Yeah, we have. To be honest, if the roles were reversed, I know I would have acted the same way initially. It was such a shock and so out of nowhere, I get it.

         But we did have a good conversation and are moving forward.

         This is the same guy who, on our first date, I got the phone call my brother died and I started sobbing/vomiting on the side of the road. Instead of ditching me like any normal human being would, he carried me home, held my hair and stayed with me the whole time and actually wanted to date me again so….he has plenty of goodwill stored :)

         1. Let’s hear it for a big balance in the Love Bank!

            I’m glad he came around! And I’m glad you’re feeling a bit better.

            Sending you more hugs on a Monday!!

   4. I missed your original post, but just wanted to add that I am a huge animal lover who works with multiple animal rescues. I have a pet rabbit who we often let hang out with us outside his cage. A few years ago I was sitting on the floor reading when he came up and bit my foot and I reflexively jerked my foot and because he was on top of my foot at the time I “kicked” him into a dresser. I had no idea he was even near me and I felt terrible. Thankfully he was fine (albeit a little shocked), but I could have easily been in your exact situation. To reiterate what everyone else said, you are not a monster. You had a normal, human reaction.

      1. It’s so easy to forget how fragile little pets are! They’re so feisty and tough.

4. I have two girls. I hand clothes down from one to the other and they are usually in good shape to be donated again. I’ve gone to rashguards and tankinis for bathing suits (easier to change into and go to the bathroom and fewer sunburns) for them and have quite the arsenal (camp needs them every day and one set for babysitter’s car = at least 4 sets per child per year). I hand these down too but what do I do with the outgrown ones? Thrift stores don’t take swimwear and this haul is expensive (and it seems wasteful to just toss it). Would it be gross to ask if anyone I work with wants this for their kids? [This is for 5-6, 6X sizes, so no learning to potty train nastiness.]

   1. I mean, you wash the swimsuits/rashguards, right? Then it’s not gross. I would totally offer them at work, with the clear understanding that you don’t need them back.

   2. I assume you’re asking because there aren’t any cousins or friends’ kids that could benefit? I can’t picture offering kids’ wear at my office (not because it’s “gross” but because I’d feel super awkward) but perhaps you have a more cozy office (friendship-wise) than I do.

      1. +1

         Kids of friends.

         Basically all of my clothes growing up were hand-me-downs from my parent’s friends from grad school.

   3. You could offer them at work or if you’re in any community/mom’s groups, offer them there. I constantly see people in my neighbourhood posting on the FB group saying they have X things for X age, with a picture, and things always seem to go.

      1. Yeah this seems not work appropriate.

         Also 4 sets? Man they’re doing well! We got 2, and if they were damp oh well.

         1. Depends on your workplace. All our newborn clothes (and almost all up to a year) were hand me downs from one of my bosses, and then I passed them on to a coworker. But I would just ask people you know well, who have appropriately aged kids, if they’re interested in some swimsuits, rather than sending around a mass email. We also see this king of thing on our neighborhood parents’ listserve daily and things get snapped up really quick.

         2. As someone who made an impromptu stop at the park with my kids on Saturday, only to have them run into the splash pad with their clothes and I had no change of clothes with me . . . I am now firmly on the side of extra set of swim stuff for the car, for camp, for everywhere. Embrace summer!

   4. Go ahead and offer – I totally wouldn’t think it’s gross and would happily take them if I were your co-worker. I accepted used underwear for potty-training aged kids from my neighbor. Some people definitely wouldn’t use them, but they’re adults and can presumably just say “No thanks!”

      1. Thanks. There is a secretary here with a slightly younger daughter who I give things to all the time. Our other friends with younger kids have boys or the girls are so young that it would be years before the clothes were used (so I see that as a burden on people to warehouse stuff).

   5. Can you ask someone at the summer camp? If the camp requires kids to have this much stuff, they might have a program or know of a program to give families no- or low-cost summer camp gear.

   6. Could you take them to camp / after school programme for kids who forget theirs? Or put up a notice at the swimming pool?

   7. I always post things on:
      Nextdoor
      Freecycle
      Or special needs classrooms often take their student’s swimming and often have families who can’t afford swim suits/forgot to send it in and would LOVE to have some like you mentioned, for ease of changing and protection from sun!

   8. Call the women’s shelter – they often take gently used toys and clothes and things. It’s also possible that your immigration services branch would have families who could use them or the homeless shelter

5. Check out the sun runner crop from Lululemon. I keep getting ads for it and it looks like such a good running short alternative. It’s a crop (as suggested by the name) but the bottom part is all mesh so looks like it would be pretty cool.

6. I need to cancel a trip/meeting attendance with another firm to visit a mutual customer on short notice due to a family medical situation – the meeting is tomorrow morning. The other firm had arranged the meeting and my attendance was always at my discretion but appreciated; I’ll be able to call in instead.

   How would you all word the email? I don’t want to be too apologetic, too TMI, or too cavalier either.

   1. Just to add, this is the email to the other firm; I’m not concerned with how it comes across to the customer.

   2. I’d call. “Hey wanted to touch base about tomorrow. I’ve had a family emergency come up and I’m not going to be able to make it. Sorry for the last minute cancellation.”

   3. I’d email. “Due to extenuating circumstances, I will not be able to attend the meeting in person. I will join virtually.” etc.

   4. I’d hoped to be able to attend the meeting in person, but my schedule no longer allows it. I’ll plan to dial in to the call instead, and will look forward to seeing you in person next time.

7. Have any of you ever quit your job instead of returning from maternity leave? Or had an employee do so? Thoughts on how to make that a positive experience and not a bridge-burning one?

   I’ve already decided that I can’t do my time- intensive, stressful, long-commute job with an infant (I am already stretched thin doing the job with a toddler), so I will not be coming back from my upcoming maternity leave. But I wonder if I should make that clear before going out on leave (no, because they would just fire me, right?) or if I should ride it out and give two weeks’ notice while on leave? I think my boss suspects this might be my move (it’s an intense job and I am the only working mom on my team). I’m wondering how to get the maximum benefit both in terms of leave and goodwill but the alternatives seem to be working against one another.

   Special call-out to any HR professionals or employment attorneys with experience in pregnancy discrimination for advice on what I should do/ what they can or can’t do!

   1. My firm, and my previous firm, had policies that require moms to return from maternity leave for a certain amount of time or forfeit the benefits of leave. For example, 12 weeks paid and medical, but if you didn’t come back for 3 months, you had to repay your your 12 weeks of income (not sure about the medical part). You may want to read your company’s manual or ask for your company’s maternity leave policy so you don’t get caught unaware.

   2. Even with unpaid leave, if you are taking FMLA leave you may be required to pay back your benefits if you do not return. That may still be the best option for you, but do keep it in mind. If you give notice before you leave, you will very likely not qualify for any paid leave or benefits. You’d have to check your STD policy on that front.

   3. Haven’t done this myself, but have seen a few other women do it (Biglaw). They typically give notice no earlier than 3 months into their 16-week leave for the reasons you cite.

      It’s impossible to avoid some bridge burning here, and particularly irritating to the women you’re leaving behind, because as soon as any of them gets pregnant, they’ll be under suspicion of quitting (of course not openly or a way that can be “proven” because people are not stupid about employment law, just enough to sting).

   4. I’ve seen companies ask for employees that quit while on leave to pay back insurance premiums the company paid for the employee during the leave (especially if the leave went beyond the STD/FMLA period).

      Personally, I wouldn’t quit before you go out of leave, because you never know what will happen – your spouse could lose his job, you could decide you hate being at home, etc.

      Alternately, could you ask to go part time or work from home a couple of days a week to cut down on the commute?

      In a past job, I’ve seen an employee not burn bridges by giving notice toward the end of her leave that she would be coming back at the end of her leave to work her 2 weeks notice, where she would meet with people who were covering her work to transfer it and answer any further questions, clean out her office and files, etc. However, she had an excellent rapport with her manager, who was also a working mother, so that may have made some difference. She stayed in touch and the manager hired her to do a little bit of work from home (data crunching that she had done in the past) as a temp/hourly employee.

   5. If that’s what you’ve decided, it’s what you’ve decided. Own it. But don’t think for one moment that it DOESN’T burn a bridge or people won’t think less of you. And the “oh it’s hard for my family” arguments will get you no traction — bc you had the option of quitting BEFORE leave and thus NOT taking the firm’s money. I personally hate it when women do this, as it makes the rest of us look bad, but it’s your call so I wish you well.

      1. +1 – it’s always hard for your family.

         I would quit before you leave (if you’re absolutely sure). I think it’s unethical to enjoy the benefits of a job knowing you’re not going back.

         1. Also: you can be a big help by transitioning / training / even just putting people on notice that you’ll need to be permanently replaced. That is how you go out and don’t burn bridges.

            The only reasons to sit on a decision you’ve made is 1) fear that you’ll regret it and won’t know if you’ll still feel this way when the baby comes and don’t have to have been permanently replaced while it’s all unsettled and 2) just for the $ (so you could probably handle your exit to stay on your insurance through the birth, which may be quite important). #1 is very legitimate, IMO.

         2. I think you’ve earned those benefits already. The same way that if you got hit by a bus, you wouldn’t be expected to quit before disability benefits ran out.

            1. Seconded. If you’ve already earned the benefits, they’re yours. That’s not “taking the firm’s money” that using a benefit you’ve worked for.

            2. If you get hit by a bus, that’s unplanned.

               Unplanned here = you are 100% going to quit; the baby comes 2 months early before you’ve had time to put work on notice, etc. No one would begrudge you taking leave and then quitting here.

               Also OK: bonuses are paid 12/15; people hang around until then and quit after verifying that the direct deposit has landed. If you were hit by a bus on 12/14, I don’t think firms are obligated to pay your heirs your bonus (they may) since they are usually contingent on being employed by the firm on 12/15.

               Think Goldman Sachs: if you are long-term greedy, announce before; if you are short-term greedy, take the leave and then announce.

            3. If you get hit by a bus, and then decide you want to quit your job, it’s fine to quit while you’re out on disability leave. Similarly, if you have a baby and while you’re at home on maternity leave, decide you don’t want to return, then it’s ok to quit. People are objecting to an employee who KNOWS she wants to quit, but takes the leave anyway. There’s no analogy to that with disability leave, unless you are clairvoyant and know you’re going to get hit by a bus next week.

      2. +1 – It makes it awful for the rest of us.

         Signed,
         Coworker did this, I’m not pregnant, but people joke (read: really question) whether or not I’ll do this when I get pregnant

      3. I agree with how it makes “the rest of us look bad” but I think it’s important to question why it happens. It’s still the case that many law firms, companies, etc haven’t figured out a way to really help working moms of young children to manage childcare, personal health, work and everything else. Something has to give and I suspect many moms don’t make the decision to leave the workforce lightly and if they truly felt they had better options for working and “moming” they’d be less likely to exit.

   6. Not returning from maternity leave burns bridges in a big way. No two ways about it. If I were in your shoes I would plan to come back for at least three months, and quit then if you find it’s not working. That’s a pretty trivial amount of time in the big scheme of things and I think you can survive if you know you have an end date in sight. People may not be thrilled about you returning for such a short time, but at least you will have made a good faith effort to return, and you will have avoided the problems mentioned above with having to pay back benefits received while on leave. And you may surprise yourself by finding that you’re looking forward to going back at 12 weeks or finding that your job is more manageable than you thought it would be.
      If you’re really 100% sure you’re not coming back, you should give notice before going on leave, so you can get a positive reference. But that’s risky, because as has been discussed here many people don’t know they’re not cut out for stay-at-home-parenting until they’re doing it.

      1. +1

      2. I agree that if you are really concerned about the optics/bridge burning and you aren’t 100% sure you want to be a SAHP, it is probably a better plan to give it a go for a couple of months after your leave, and only make the final decision after you’ve been back a 2-3 months.

         However, I know it’s a lot of work (and potentially lost money) to arrange daycare or find a nanny, etc and possibly lose deposits or pay for daycare you won’t use. So financially it may be better for you to just quit. But mentally, for me at least, I think it would also be better to be able to say “I gave it a try and chose to leave” rather than me saying “what if I hadn’t quit?” when things got rough with being at home or finding another position – because I tend to be a what if/second guesser that beats myself up over the path not taken.

         IMO, if you aren’t 100% sure you will be coming back, and you think it won’t burn a bridge with your boss, you can say that. Or if you have a reasonable HR person, you may be able to approach it as a worst case hypothetical of “and what if there is a situation where I can’t come back from leave, what would happen?” But whatever you do, don’t tell a couple of co-workers (even if you think you trust them) that you aren’t coming back, while telling the bosses that you are coming back. Because once you announce you are leaving, word *will* get out that you had been planning this all along, and that will hurt your reputation. Of course, if you don’t come back, people will speculate that you had been planning it that way all along – but that isn’t as bad for your reputation as the word getting out that you had planned not to come back but kept it from the bosses.

   7. So, I did this. I had more or less planned to quit beforehand, but baby came unexpectedly early. Between the haze of the first weeks (during which time I also worked from home a bit to help transition my work, given my abrupt leave) I quit via phone after about 3-4 weeks…I personally didn’t feel right using the FMLA benefits without saying anything. Everyone I talked to was super gracious, and actually set my “last day” so that I would receive the remaining couple weeks paid. Who knows, this may have left a bit of bad taste for some coworkers, but I had always been a hard worker, with a positive attitude, etc etc and overall it went much better than I expected.

      But, all that said, if I were to do it again I still would have planned to quit ahead of time in person. It was actually quite stressful knowing I had to make that call while out on leave, and I wish I didn’t have to deal with that with a newborn. If it is your choice to leave (and/or stay home with baby), own it and let your boss know a couple weeks before your due date.

   8. Hmm, I didn’t come back from maternity leave and felt no guilt about it at all.

      Perhaps the situation is a bit different because my firm gave us NO benefits (not just no maternity benefits, no benefits at all — they were too small to have to provide healthcare etc), gave me “eight weeks of paid leave” except only at 1/2 pay, so really just 4 weeks, aggressively *reduced* my pay when I went from a temp to full-time, made it so I really couldn’t afford to work there and get child care, and was generally a terrible employer who treated lawyers like utterly replaceable cogs in a wheel (maybe we are! but now you have to replace me, buddy!) … and so perhaps I did women a disservice in the eyes of the men who ran that firm (but the fact that the managing partner brought his escorts to the office and gifted them company laptops* makes me think that perhaps there wasn’t a lot to be lost there) but the women I worked with understood. I had to do what made sense for me and my family, not Womanhood in general. :-/

      *Did I just out myself, or is this a common thing?

   9. My perspective is different. You’ve earned your paid leave by working hard during your employment. Maybe it will burn some bridges, but you have to do what is best for you and your family. Your situation is not ideal, but if this country/your company would figure out how to truly put families in the position of being able to return to work reasonably, this would be less of a problem. Don’t let guilt about work make you compromise on what is best for you and your new family.

      1. I don’t know. I agree 100% that this country needs to do more to make life better for working parents, especially working mothers. But generous paid leaves are a big part of that and when you take a leave knowing with complete certainty that you aren’t going to come back, you’re gaming the system and discouraging employers from offering these benefits that help so many others. It’s not clear what else her company could be doing to retain her. The job is time-intensive and stressful, which many high-paying jobs are, and the commute is long, which is in no way the employer’s fault. This doesn’t sound like a situation where her company is failing women and she’s justified in sticking it to them. A different type of job in a better location would be a better fit for OP’s lifestyle, which is totally fair, but not something to blame the employer for. The right thing to do in this circumstance is quit before going out on leave and not take advantage of a company’s efforts to retain women.

         1. Yes, we see things differently. I see maternity leave as something you have earned by working for a company. Most places require you to be there for a while before your are eligible. Others here see maternity leave as something needs to be repaid in some way when you come back. I can see the reasoning in both approaches, but I stand by my interpretation.

            Ideally, yes, you’d come back for a few months. But I am an employment lawyer and have never seen a return made mandatory by company policy. I’ve also never come across repayment being required if you don’t go back (other than health insurance premiums). I’ll agree that taking paid leave without returning is not the best policy, but people have to do what they have to do for themselves. A company will cut people loose when it makes financial sense–we are free to do the same.

   10. I’m pleased to see a lot of the posts here.

       Our group works under the auspices of a large organization. We regularly have 1-2 hires that are highly skilled, but must be trained extensively once they begin to work with us. I train one, and until they are up to speed, our work suffers, clients complain due to long waits, and work is even busier and high stakes. It easily requires a several extra hours a day of work for me when we don’t have a fully trained individual at this level. It usually takes about 9-12 months for them to be able to perform their job relatively consistently, and they still are required to have hourly oversight for safety/documentation purposes. They are compensated very well, and benefits are excellent… including paid and extensive maternity lave.

       These positions are predominantly filled by young women 25-40 years old. At least every 2-3 years, one will become pregnant. It is usually a dance of us begging to know if they are planning on returning, as our hiring process can take up to 1 year, and then the training…. But always, the employee states they are 100% coming back. We hire a temp while they are away, that cannot handle the job and the rest of our group really suffers. And then almost inevitably, the employee calls at the end of their leave to say they are sorry but they have changed their mind and they are not coming back.

       The effects on the group are brutal.

   11. I think the reason it burns bridges so badly is that people are “on hold” for a lot when someone goes out on leave. I’ve had several women on my team go on leave and there are projects we just freeze until she gets back. If we knew in advance that she wasn’t ever coming back, it would totally change the coverage plans we had. To broiling up “things for X to handle when she returns” only to find out after : months that X isn’t coming back would crush morale for the rest of the team pitching in to cover for her.

       1. This, plus not being able to really train someone new/offboard properly.

8. I’ve been disheartened lately by the prevalence of name-calling on this site. Just recently, I’ve seen “spoiled brat,” “jerk,” you’re insane,” and worse. This is never constructive (unnecessary cruelty isn’t tough love), but it doesn’t appear to be against the rules. Has anyone else been bothered by this?

   1. Yes – I’ve been reading the site for years, and I’ve been surprised recently at how quickly people move into attack mode. Not everyone, or even close to a majority — but noticeably more than I remember previously.

      1. Yes, I think that’s the major problem – people seem to be jumping to insults SO quickly and for no reason (i.e., never in response to some blatantly racist or offensive post or something). There is no need to call someone a princess for posting a question about a wedding preference or to call someone a a**hole for disagreeing with a coworker. I’m not sure what the solution is, but I’d personally prefer for blatant posts like that to be outright deleted.

   2. Yay Kat! I love this blazer, but I ONLEY look good with Veritcal Stripe’s. Dad says Horizontal Strip’es make my tuchus look too wide. FOOEY b/c as a child my favorite tee shirt was blue with white horizontal stripe’s! DOUBEL FOOEY!

      As for the OP, I agree. Civility has gone downhill EVERWHERE since the primaries and the Brexit. Peeople are so spoiled and self righteous, and if they do NOT get what they want, they get all sore and NASTY over everything. Dad says it is the MILLENEAL GENERATION (I am NOT a milenial, thank God!)

      I did go this weekend up to see a freind from college that lives in Florida, NY. It is NOTHING like Florida, Florida — it is just up the thruway, then out Route 17 and some road for miles. I ate a GREAT Pastrami Sandwich out there. Who knew they could do this outside of Manhattan? Anyway, my freind’s had a brother who is 40 that wanted me to go skinny dipping with him in a lake. I said why would I show him my body? Has anyone in the hive just gone skinny dipping with a guy they NEVER met before? Why would we do that? I am sure he would NOT want that to stop there. What is the HIVE’s experence with men who want to go skinny dipping? Is there ANYWAY this could be seen as acceptable? I say FOOEY to men who just want me to take my clotheing off, even to swim. It was hot out, but I did NOT want to do this. FOOEY!

   3. This happened a few years ago as well. It reached the point where I completely stopped using the site. I came back a few months ago to see if it changed and even now only read sometimes. It’s not as bad as then but it’s still beyond what is appropriate oftentimes.

      For some, I think it’s about tone online. For others, it’s because it’s behind a computer screen. Still others are probably just like that.

   4. I’ve been reading regularly since 2010 and notice no trend. There have always been nasty threads here and there, topics that tend to get ugly quickly, and a few provocative commenters (who come and go). It is also consistent that people seem to recall an earlier time when things were different. I don’t think there was such a time.

      1. +1

      2. THIS. I’ve been reading here since 2008, which I believe was the year it launched, and basically since the beginning people have been saying “it used to be so much nicer and more civil!”

      3. I think what changes is the focus of negativity. There will be times when the group mentality is that everyone is x or in y position or the proper response is z, which just grows and grows so the negative/overly harsh attitudes tend to come out more in those areas. Thus, people who read more of those comments or are more sensitive to those areas notice it more.

         I have noticed a lot of calling people insane lately, for example. A year ago, maybe the common thing was something else.

         It might also be more apparent to those of us who don’t read every post because we don’t see the full spectrum.

         I agree is not good but don’t know of anything to be done.

      4. +1 reader since 2008. The only trend I notice is that every few years someone says it used to be better before. A trend not unique to this site, of course.

   5. Agree- and I appreciate reading when fellow readers call out aggressive behavior. We are allowed to have differing values and opinions- let’s keep it at an intelligent and supportive community. I feel we are losing out on many voices because of this rude behavior.

   6. Yes, I have noticed this and been bothered by this as well. I’ve noticed that a lot of it is in response to posters who are guessed to be trolls. I personally think it’s best just to ignore a troll.

9. Hair coloring question: I have medium-dark brown, thin, fine, shoulder length brown hair. I’d like to dye/highlight it — no particular reason, just seems like a fun thing to try. However, I don’t want this to turn into a big money drain, so I’d like something that wouldn’t be too hard to maintain or could grow out naturally. I work in a conservative profession and office, so blue hair, etc are out. Any suggestions about what to do (or how to figure out what to do)? I know literally nothing about coloring hair. I’ll talk to my stylist about it too, but wanted to make sure I had some idea what the range of options is.

   1. If you want to do it professionally, I think highlights are the lowest maintenance option, esp. If you explain that you want natural ones that will grow out subtly vs. something that will leave clear roots. But you could also try an at home dye – it’s not hard. Just go for something within a shade or two of your natural color – darker hair is harder to lightened too much at home. If you’re just dipping your toe in, try a semi permanent hair color that will wash out in X number of washes.

      1. Balaynge is like highlights that grow out less awkwardly. FTW. So you can do it once and then decide if you want to do it again or not, on your own schedule.

         At home boxed dye is also totally legit.

   2. Balayage is more natural looking than traditional highlights. It’s a bit more pricey and more of a time commitment, but it’d be easier to grow out if you decided you didn’t like it. It also requires less maintenance if you decide to keep it up. I do balayage every 10ish weeks; I had to get highlights every 8 weeks.

      1. +1 to balayage. My stylist is fantastic with color, and it’s a really subtle change vs. ombre that is more abrupt. I have light/medium brown hair going to blonde ends, and my grow out is not at all noticeable since all the highlights at the bottom of my hair, not the base. I really love that I don’t have any lines and don’t have to get in on a regular basis. the only complaint I have is that sometimes my color blends too much into each other after a while, and I feel like I lose the effect. I last got mine done 13 weeks ago and am only thinking about going in again because I want to do something completely different (all over strawberry blonde :)).

         Also, for any highlights, use a purple shampoo weekly – I use Clairol Professional Shimmer Lights Shampoo blonde & silver. It helps keep the brassiness out.

   3. I color my hair myself when I just want some oomph. I use the Clairol semi-permanent color that only lasts about 20 shampoos and pick a shade similar to mine but more red, caramel, etc.

      1. Try the Aveda Clove conditioner. Very gentle and forgiving.

         1. Do you have a color safe conditioning/repairing mask that you would recommend that isn’t $$$$$?

   4. I have your exact hair color and I use L’Oreal Feria boxed hair color – medium auburn color. It’s exactly the same darkness as my natural hair color and just reddens it up a bit. Roots aren’t that obvious because there’s no huge dark/light difference in my natural vs. dyed hair.

   5. Thanks very much, everyone!

10. Another hair question: has anyone used an at home gloss they liked? I stopped dying my hair years ago but am getting the occasional gray strand now so was thinking I could blend it in a bit with a gloss treatment before graduating to full dye (and kind of want to wait and see if I’ll maybe get one of those awesome dramatic gray streaks)…

    1. AIMS, try the Clairol semi-permanent color. It conceals my grays and makes my hair look healthier (when I remember to do it!). Since it’s semi-permanent, there are no growout issues.

       1. I’ve been needing a solution for my grays, will give this a go, thanks.

    2. I bought a John Freida Brilliant Brunette Glaze (that has since been discontinued, but looks similar to the Color Deeping Treatment and the Ulta Color Enhance Glaze) and didn’t really find it did much for my hair. The first few times I used it, I didn’t feel like it really did anything at all except slightly stain my fingers. Then I tried using more and leaving it on longer and tried to focus on the grays around my face especially – and what it mainly did was stain my scalp (I had a bit brown blob in my part) and hairline so that I had to scrub my forehead and around my ears like crazy when I got out of the shower. My hair was maybe a tiny bit shinier, but it basically just made it so I felt greasy and like I needed a shampoo 12 hours earlier than usual (I can usually go 2 days between shampoos, sometimes 3 if I’m wearing my hair pulled back and haven’t been using products in it).

       So overall, I’d say I don’t recommend it, and agree with Bonnie that Clariol semi-permanent is a better way to go while I just have random gray sporadic strands- I use a slightly lighter shade and leave it on for the maximum time recommended by the package, and it makes the grays look more like sun lightened hairs than gray.

       Since I still have most of the bottle and the equipment, I’m going to try painting it on damp hair with a dye brush and cup instead of just applying blind post-shampoo like the bottle recommends – I think the problem is that it’s fairly thin, and applying it to wet hair means that it either doesn’t cover or you get too much and it drips on your skin. I was hoping the gloss would be easier (5 minutes 1-3 times a week instead of 30+ minutes once a month for semi-permanent dye), but it hasn’t been worth the trouble so far.

       1. +1 I tried the John Frieda glaze and it was awful. No change in color, and disgusting lank greasy-feeling hair.

       2. Sebastian Cellophane glaze is more pigmented that the John Freida glaze. (And comes in more colors.) It only very lightly tints my few stray silver hairs (I’m still primarily at the plucking stage), but definitely adds a nice shine.

    3. I’ve had really good results with using the Wella permanent dye that’s closest to my natural color, and brushing it mainly on the gray areas (and then some streaks through the surrounding hair to blend just in case). One bottle of dye has lasted me ~6 dyeing sessions, which I do once a month or so. It looks way more unnoticeable/natural, in my opinion, than all-over dye jobs. I tried some semi-permanent dyes or glosses first, but none of them touched the gray hairs, which seem pretty resistant to taking on color.

    4. I got highlights to camouflage my gray stragglers. I wasn’t ready to commit to a full dye job (and the maintenance that entails) and this turned out to be a good compromise solution.

    5. Are you willing to try henna? Depending on your coloring, it could be an elegant and easy solution. My tips would be NOT to buy the Lush stuff (it comes in a big ol’ block and is gross and hard to use, and you can get cheaper stuff on Amazon that’s already powdered) and to just mix it with conditioner to apply. On my dark brown, thin-but-lots-of-it hair, it turns my greys into shiny red highlights (there are only a few so it just looks pretty, not ridiculous) and then gives the rest of my hair an amazing shine (I look like a pantene commercial for a few days, no joke) and tiny tiny hint of red.

       My hair stylist isn’t crazy about it, because if/when I want to switch to dye, I’ll have to wait until it really wears off (henna doesn’t play nice with synthetic dyes), but because it does eventually wear off (I only apply it about every 3 months) it’ll just be a matter of eventually washing it all out. Also people tell me I have “mermaid hair” like weekly, so I really do think it must look nice.

       1. Is there a brand/seller on Amazon that you would recommend?

          1. Yes, I use “Hannah Natural 100% Pure Henna Powder” — link to follow.

             1. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009YSTOAG/

11. YAY WHOLE WOMENS HEALTH!

    1. ??

       1. Supreme Court struck down Texas abortion restrictions.

          1. Ugh I’m out of it today. Huge news!

    2. Can someone summarize what the Texas law is and what was held/overturned? I’m probably the only lawyer in the US who doesn’t follow Sup Ct jurisprudence and yet I feel like I should have some clue.

       1. The Supreme Court has previously said that you can regulate abortion providers, but you can’t do an undue burden. The Texas Law said stuff like – abortion clinics have to have 12 feet wide hallways – that is a totally crap regulation that has no real reason besides shutting down clinics. The regs would have also shut down almost all Texas clinics making it really hard for women to access care. States have been using TRAP laws (Targeted Regulation of Abortion Providers) to put burdensome regulation just on ab clinics to shut them down, and this ruling says you can’t do that, which is great.

       2. Texas law required clinics providing abortions to meet “hospital like standards” (which I believe only 4 in the state do) and required physicians providing abortions to have hospital admitting privileges at a hospital within 30 miles of the clinic where they practiced. The regulations prohibited almost every clinic in the state from providing abortions.

          1. And they don’t make women safer. Texas was saying we need these rules to protect women’s health, and SCOTUS is calling them out on the lie. YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.

       3. Essentially the Texas law (HB2) stated that the doctor preforming the abortion had to have admitting rights at near by hospitals and that abortion clinics had to meet the standards of outpatient surgical standards (which I believe regulates things such has the air filtration system and such). This meant that 21/40 clinics closed in Texas after the law went into effect. Many of the clinics that had to close were in poorer/ more remote areas of Texas meaning the number of women who lived more that 150 miles from a clinic grew from 1000,000 pre HB2 to 900,000 post HB2.

       4. I’m only at page 14 of the 104 page (!) opinion, but it seems well thought-out, thorough and fact-based. If the opinion continues to be this grounded in reality, I think it’s a really great precedent for protecting abortion rights!

          I’m relieved Kennedy didn’t write his case using his new “dignity” (SSM case) paradigm.

          1. It’s a good opinion and a thorough takedown of the TX regs, but I give it 30 seconds before other states argue that this finding was based on the specific facts in this evidentiary record, and on the district court’s specific findings of fact. Abortion opponents will argue this case should be limited to its facts.

    3. Absolutely!! And the Voisine decision is huge as well!! It is a good day to be a feminist!

       1. YAY!

       2. I am a feminist and I think abortion is pure evil. Look at the polls – barely half of women call themselves pro-choice.

          While I do not have animus towards those who disagree with me, I do resent the idea that the only way to be feminist is to be pro-choice. If you want it to be, know that you are espousing a position that treats well over 40% of women as not welcome in the club.

    4. I AM SO HAPPY/RELIEVED I COULD CRY.

       NOT EVEN KIDDING.

    5. It’s a great victory for access to safe abortion, but even if it had gone the other way, women would still continue to seek abortions (no pontificating males will ever change that). I encourage everyone to check out Women on Waves and Women on Web for examples of organizations that are REALLY doing great work to help all women access their right to choose.

    6. Is this the same bill that the representative from Austin (I’m blanking on her name) filibustered for some crazy amount of time to try to prevent?

       Also, one of my favorite lines from supporters of the bill: “90% of Texas women of reproductive age will live within 150 miles of an open abortion clinic.” I do not understand how you can say with a straight face, we’re not placing an undue burden on reproductive rights because most women are within a 6-hour round trip drive of an abortion clinic! That is not a good fact for you, how can you argue that it is???

       1. Yes, that was Wendy Davis.

       2. Wendy Davis, from Fort Worth (not Austin). And yes.

       3. Especially when waiting periods and counseling requirements make women drive that distance several times.

       4. And especially when the 150 miles is often into another state and you have to count on those state imposing lighter restrictions because if the neighboring states copied the TX law, many of the women would no longer live within 150 miles of an open clinic.

          1. Whoops I should have kept reading the comments below!

    7. The Texas SG gave this one away at oral argument. He conceded that there was no evidence in the record of any instance in which the regulations would have helped even one woman obtain better treatment. He also suggested that burdened women in West Texas could just go to New Mexico to get abortions, and got slapped down HARD by RBG who asked why, if these regs were so necessary to protect women’s health, it would be okay to send Texas residents to a state with no such protection.

       1. I don’t think there was a way to save it at oral argument either though. The record was bad because the regulations were bad. I did love RBG’s smackdown though!

          1. I agree with you, but he really left himself open to that smackdown by suggesting that a clinic in NM provided relief.

             1. Yeah that was just classic. Good Lord.

    8. I’m so relieved!

       Hopefully this will stop the other states that are pushing the same or similar BS laws.

    9. So glad to hear some good news on the reproductive rights front in the US. At these times, I am always left to wonder how two countries so geographically linked and similar in so many ways can differ so vastly when it comes to an issue like the health of half their freaking citizenry. I was only 13 years old when Canada’s Supreme Court struck down the existing abortion laws but that was pretty much the end of it. It is a medical decision, it is covered by universal healthcare and even our protestors (of which there are like 1 or 2 outside a clinic if any) just do not seem that committed or bothered. It remains a mystery to me. But I am so grateful to the people that fought for the rights of women in Canada, especially Dr. Morgentaler. That man was a hero.

       1. Agreed entirely on Dr. Morgentaler! They should do a heritage moment about him

       2. + 10000000

12. I’m trying to get onto a weekly cleaning schedule- DH and I both work long hours, but a cleaning person is not in the budget right now, so it’s really between us. In practice, DH does outside stuff, and so generally I do inside stuff, but it feels like so much to spend all day Saturday or Sunday cleaning, and then we can’t have anyone over on Friday, and the house is a mess by Thursday.

    I was thinking something like floors Monday, bathrooms Tuesday, sheets/towels/laundry Wednesday, deep clean kitchen Thursday, and other tidying as needed? Anyone have other schedules? Please tell me I’m not the only one terrified of having people stop by unexpectedly on a Friday.

    1. LOL at deep cleaning the kitchen once a week. Even when we had a cleaning service, they came every other week, so we never had a super clean house every single weekend. We tidy up after our every meal and wipe up spills but only “deep clean” when we have overnight visitors coming (once every couple of months, usually). We usually clean the bathrooms every other weekend and vacuum and dust on the alternate weekend. We each do our own laundry, no particular schedule, just when we need it done. I usually only do laundry about once a month, because I have a lot of underwear and most of my work clothes are dry clean only. Could our house be cleaner? Probably, yeah. But it’s liveable and life is too short to spend every evening cleaning.

    2. Here is my suggestion:
       Every Morning:
       -Make Beds, make sure no clothes are left on the floor
       -After shower take a rag and just wipe down all the counters
       -Empty Dishwasher
       -Start a load in the washer if necessary

       Every Evening:
       -put load of clothes in dryer and put away when dry
       -Load Dishwasher
       -wipe down counters
       -Sweep kitchen floor
       -Daily Extra Chore

       Extra Chore List:
       Sunday: Rotate every week between 1) clean mirrors and windows 2) wipe down doors and moldings 3) microwave/fridge wipe down 4) wipe down cabinets and furniture
       Monday: Dust
       Tuesday: Mop Floors
       Wednesday: Vacuum
       Thursday: In Depth Bathroom
       Friday: Free Day

       I would also have my husband help me with inside stuff. Also a clutter basket is key for our house. I keep one by the bottom of the stairs and the top of the stairs. When I notice something that belongs downstairs, and I am upstairs I put it in the basket. When I go down the stairs, I carry the basket down and then return things to their homes. Before I go to bed every night I walk around with the clutter basket and grab everything that doesn’t belong and put it in it, and then walk around returning things to their homes.

       1. +100 Clutter Basket.

       2. This is a great list! One question – do you leave wet laundry in the washer all day? Does it get mildew-y? I can delay start mine but was never sure about leaving things in it all day. I do theme laundry – about 5 loads a week (husband’s work clothes, my work clothes, clothes that go in dryer, sheets, towels) but it is often a struggle to get the dryer stuff done in the hours between getting home and wanted to take a shower / make the bed (50 minute cycle, 2h20 dry).

          1. I delay start mine so it’s ready to go in the dryer when I get home. Keep two sets of sheets and towels and that way you aren’t waiting on loads to finish?

          2. 2 sets of sheets and towels.

          3. So I live in London where I don’t have a dryer. Loads take FOREVER. I am usually fine coming home to hang things up to dry. I would delay start yours to finish right before you get home, and just transfer it to the dryer. But it can sit there for an hour or two thats not a huge issue. Also keep 2 sets of sheets/towels, than you always have a back up!

          4. +1 to 2 sets of sheets and towels (or at least enough towels to have one set for each person in the household to use when the rest are in the dryer). That way you can remake the bed as soon as you strip it.

             For things that don’t won’t get wrinkled when left in the dryer (or that will come unwrinkled with just a 10-20 minute tumble), I load the washer and put it on delay start so it will finish in the early hours of the morning, and then set an alarm on my phone so I remember to throw it in the dryer in the morning before I leave for work.

             I’m surprised your dryer takes so long – is the towel or sheets load really full, and would it dry faster if you split that into 2 loads (or threw half the towels in to dry, then could shower, etc with them while the were in the dryer)? Do you have the option todo an additional spin cycle on your washer to get more of the water out before going in the dryer? Do you need to clean out your dryer vents so it works more effectively? While my front load washer has many faults, one of the best features is that clothes come out closer to damp than wet, so the time in the dryer is much closer to the time it takes to run the washer.

          5. Air-drying has the distinct advantage that you can put stuff up to dry and then go straight to bed without waiting up for the dryer to finish. (My parents put the dryer to run and then go to bed which I absolutely hate because it’s so risky). And yes, 2 or more sets of sheets and towels! It always surprises me that people don’t have that.

             1. Yes. I won’t ever run the dryer while we’re asleep or away from home. Dryer fires are a real thing.

       3. You must not have pets. You have to vacuum immediately before you mop! :)

    3. You clean your floors weekly? You might be holding yourself to a higher standard that your unexpected guests would expect. If you have in-unit laundry then throwing in laundry and running it during the week is pretty easy. I do all my kitchen chores (and sometimes bathroom) while watching my favorite programs. Can you pair cleaning with activities you already do during the week?

       The problem with inside/outside is that taking out the trash or mowing the lawn takes like 2 min/week 30 min/month and cleaning your whole house takes a heckuva lot longer. That is not a fair distribution.

       1. It really depends on the extent of the outside chores. We have an older house that needs a decent amount of maintence, lots of trees and a fairly large lot (large for an in town lot), so outdoor chores can take several hours a week, and/or all day on a weekend plus a couple hours during the week, more when there is a lot of snow or leaves to deal with, or we are doing something beyond the bare minimum of keeping the landscaping/plants from dying. But we knew that when we bought the place, and went it with the explicit agreement that my husband would be handling 90%+ of the outside work, plus a decent amount of the household chores as well, since he works very close to home and I have a longer commute and longer work hours.

          In a condo/townhouse/rental though, I agree that the inside/outside split isn’t really fair. Also, are you doing the bulk of the deep cleaning *and* daily chores like cooking/dishes *and* decluttering? Or does he help with the day to day and decluttering but you do the indoor heavy scrubbing while he does the outside stuff? Because both of you pitching in on the daily stuff and decluttering can go a long way.

          Also, +1 to keeping your standards lower. Can you streamline your “what if someone drops by” routine so it mostly involves running through with a laundry basket gathering up what doesn’t need to be laying around, closing doors to rooms guests won’t need to see, wiping off the counters and bathroom sink? I promise, you aren’t the only one tossing towels and miscellaneous clothes into the shower and then shutting the curtain, or shoving a laundry basket of clutter in the bedroom closet.

          In addition, if you have an outdoor area, can you set it up so Friday night guests can be there, and only need to go in the house to get to the bathroom? That’s what we do a lot. We also just embrace a certain amount of clutter, sometimes light coating of dust or less than spotless mirror or countertops, and admit we aren’t perfect.

          The other thing that helps is to admit that you own things, and they are going to be visible, but they can at least be arranged neatly. For instance, instead of trying to constantly haul shoes back to the bedroom closet, we just keep a couple of the most worn pairs neatly lined up next to the door, and try to pare it down when it gets out of hand (or when the snow boot are still sitting there in June, ahem). Your house doesn’t need to be constantly in a state where it could be ready for a magazine photo shoot or for a real estate open house – I promise that anything beyond “not filthy” is fine for the majority of your friends – and if not, are those people really your friends?

    4. Sounds like a lot of cleaning! Do floors every other week, ditto deep clean kitchen. Like a cleaning lady would.

    5. If I clean on the weekend and tidy as I go throughout the week, the house is generally in okay shape at the end of the week, but we don’t have any pets. When we had pets, I’d have had to vacuum and swiff literally every day to keep the house ready for drop-in visitors. I can’t do the “clean one room per night” thing. I barely have time to get dinner on the table and the dishes done before I collapse from exhaustion on weeknights. My problem is that it takes all weekend to do errands and clean the house, so if we have anything going on over the weekend then the house doesn’t get cleaned.

       1. Sincerely curious what errands you are doing?

          1. Half a day, minimum, per weekend involving at least two grocery stores because one is always out of something I need, Target, dry cleaning, haircuts, trips to Michael’s for school project supplies, Ulta for shampoo, etc. This is preceded by at least half an hour planning breakfasts, lunches, and dinners for the upcoming week, and followed by at least half an hour of putting everything away. If I have to take the kid shopping for shoes or swimsuits or whatever, it turns into a full day.

             1. Amazon.com does most of this for you…

       2. I understand completely on the errand front. I swear, it ate my entire weekends. I have no idea how such simple tasks like picking up prescriptions, going grocery shopping and doing simple meal prep CAN TAKE SO MUCH TIME.

          I couldn’t stand it, so now I have Shipt do my grocery shopping and Blue Apron for meal prep (and my husband is a chef, so he takes that over because I’m an appalling cook).

       3. I have lots of pets and a roomba is a lifesaver, but in my pre-roomba life I still didn’t clean the floors weekly.

          Also – KT – I get my prescriptions mailed to me by CVS. Picking up prescriptions was the most annoying errand for me.

          1. In my case it’s my dog’s Xanax which for some reason we cant get shipped to us (GRRRRRR)–and it’s rain season so there’s thunderstorms every day so she needs them constantly

    6. I deep clean never (seriously) and it’s been fine. What are you even thinking of for deep cleaning? If all you want is for your house to be more presentable each week, regular cleaning is probably fine and you don’t need to do it weekly.

       1. +1 What is this deep cleaning you speak of?? Haha. I have a 1500 sq foot house and I can sufficiently clean it on the weekend in 2.5 – 3 hours, which includes doing most of the laundry while I go. I live in the city so don’t have much outdoor stuff to do other than pulling weeds occaisionally, so that helps reduce weekend time. I got over caring whether my house was freshly cleaned if people stopped by randomly because uh hello, they stopped by randomly. I live a life and I don’t spend all my spare time preparing for their what if I stop by CountC’s house. Plus, everyone knows I have animals and almost all of my friends have animals and/or children – they get it.

          During the week I wipe down surfaces – kitchen, tables, bathroom counters – and may throw in a load of animal use towels. I’ll do spot vacuuming too if there is pet fluff or whatever on the floor or couch/chairs. On the weekend, I sweep/vaccum, clean floors, clean the bathrooms that get used (one and the powder room), and wipe down furniture, etc.

          1. Even that is more than I do – I’ll spot clean things as needed, but I never do it on a defined schedule other than vacuuming at least once a week (I leave shoes outside, have no pets, etc). If it’s not starting to get visibly dirty, I don’t clean it. I realize this probably makes me gross in the eyes of many, but I do think excessive cleaning is overkill and possibly bad for the immune system. Many cleaners are also very irritating to the skin, eyes, respiratory system, etc.

             1. Absolutely no judgment here! I only do the big cleaning chunk because it’s part of my routine, I am a creature of habit, and I feel better when it’s done. If I miss a week, NBD, life manages to go on! I leave shoes at the door which helps, but the dog tracks in some things. I keep a small rag by each door though to wipe paws/wipe the floor on a spot-clean basis.

                Re: commercial cleaners, I completely agree with you. I sneeze and have issues nonstop in my office (where commercial cleaners are used), but not in my own house. I use Dr. Bronner’s or a vinegar solution to clean, so no traditional chemical cleaners here.

    7. I clean the downstairs floors on Thursdays. I used to do it on Fridays, but I like to do other stuff Friday evening, haha. My husband and I do this together–one of us sweeps and the other follows behind and mops. We clean the downstairs bathroom at that time too.

       I do a pick up of clutter every night. I clean the kitchen counters and load the dishwasher every night too. I do other random things, like clean the shelves in the fridge, or clean the microwave or oven, whenever I look at them and think they need it. So probably not as often as I should.

       Every week we clean the upstairs toilets and counters. Now that my kids are a little older (5 and 7), I usually supervise as they sweep, mop, vacuum, and wipe down the counters. I do the floors upstairs every other week. The kids take their shoes off before going upstairs, so I tell myself the carpet doesn’t get too dirty, haha. The dog is not allowed upstairs either.

       I do laundry throughout the week, usually on Wednesday and Sunday, and my husband and I fold it while watching a show at night. My kids have to clean their rooms at night before bed.

       By going through and picking up clutter every night and keeping the kitchen mostly clean, I feel like we can be company-ready in about 10-15 minutes. But if someone just dropped by, I wouldn’t be embarrassed because things are mostly clean. The table may need to be wiped down, or there may be crumbs on the floor, but that’s real life and that’s what you get if you just drop by my house unannounced, haha!

    8. It sounds like you’re holding yourself to the standard of someone who has a regular (multiple hours 2x week) housekeeper or a stay-at-home spouse.

       I’m happiest when I keep things neat and the bathroom and kitchen clean, but I still don’t deep clean more than every other month. For me, that means tidying the bedroom every morning, making the bed, wiping down the bathroom every day (a la Fly Lady), tidying the kitchen and living room before bed, cleaning up after cooking and eating immediately, and sweeping 1-2x week. Mop 1x week. (We have a cat, and this plus brushing him regularly means I might find cat hair on my clothes but I don’t see tumblefurs rolling across the floor.

       If you’re seriously stressed out about keeping things clean, consider making your house a no-shoe house. Yeah, it might not be what you’re used to, but it will literally halve your cleaning time.

    9. There is a great book by Cheryl Mendelson called “Home Comforts” that goes into everything you want to know and more about house cleaning–and she provides “light” and “deep clean” weekly schedules. I always find Sunday or Monday to be good laundry days, and then you want to clean the house from top to bottom (not metaphorically–literally higher to lower) so you don’t get things you just cleaned dirty again. This means dusting first, then vacuuming, then mopping the floors (if you mop before you vacuum the dust, you just push the dust around the floor and it damages your floors over time).

       To me it is a non-negotiable that dusting, vacuuming, mopping, and bathrooms be done every single week, kitchen light cleaning every day (clean counters and stovetop, do dishes, etc.) and deep cleaning once a week (for me that is a more intensive counter scrubbing, wipe up the refrigerator, throw out all the food that has gone bad, scrub the sink, and clean other surfaces like appliance fronts), and keep up with the daily chores like bed-making, tidying, wiping off tablesetc. Ideally we’d do the floors twice a week but we just don’t have the time for that.

       A fuller deep cleaning is stuff you do only once or twice a year. For me this is stuff like taking all the books off the shelves and dusting them and cleaning off the books themselves, washing all of our textiles (throws, curtains, throw pillow covers, etc.), reorganizing kitchen shelves, washing windows, etc. and any maintenance treatments that need to be done like oiling wood, washing walls where needed, etc.

       I’m sure I’ll get shamed here for doing too much work but I’m only meeting about 50% of the standard of the house I grew up in (where mom was a Midlaw partner, so managed to make it work on a tight schedule) and note that my husband and I split this work fairly evenly (I probably do a bit more of the cleaning, but he does more cooking, so it balances out). I am horrified if a guest comes over and my house isn’t decently clean and I really dislike going to other people’s homes where it’s visibly dirty. Most importantly, I love having a clean house and it makes me feel more calm and collected in other areas of life. Also, FWIW I have pretty severe asthma and allergies, and cleaning to this level has really helped to keep them at bay, even with pets in the home.

       1. It has never occurred to me to clean books. That said, since being diagnosed with a dust mite allergy, I have been planning to get glass-fronted bookshelves.

          1. Yep, one of my allergies is dust mites. Cleaning the books has been HUGE for helping that. When you do it for the first time, you realize just how nasty they (and surprisingly, the bookshelves underneath them) get. Vacuum the tops of the books, shake them out, and dust the shelves. Also get the dust mite covers for your pillows and mattress, and wash as many textiles as is feasible in hot water on a weekly basis (bedspreads, quilts, blankets, etc.). All of the above are suggestions from my allergist and have been extremely helpful.

    10. Speaking of deep cleaning, does anyone have any tips for cleaning off black charred marks on a gas stove-top? I sadly let it get pretty bad (was SWAMPED at work the last six months and had many late nights) and I’m not sure of the best way to clean it. Also not sure if I need to turn the gas off…

        1. I make a paste with cream of tartar (yes the spice) and a very little water. Put it on anything burnt on (this works great for pots and pans too. Let it sit for a bit and then scrub off.

        2. Bar Keepers Friend. You’ll want to wear rubber gloves when using it though. It’s pretty harsh.

        3. Magic Eraser :)

           1. +1

13. I graduated Class of 2015 from a top-30 law school, not best in the state, but very very highly regarded state school. I moved to another state with a saturated legal market. I started doing Doc Review but I am really trying to secure a long term permanent legal position. I have an interview this week for a job I really really want. How should asdress my doc review experience? I know it is not highly regarded but I had to pay bills and it paid decent. Any suggestions in wording is greatly appreciated.

    1. It’s in your resume right? Don’t apologize or defend it. It’s solid work, required extreme attention to detail and diligence, and was a good foundation.

    2. Assuming this is a law firm, they’ve either written you off (unlikely, since they brought you for an interview) or they completely understand the bad economic climate and that someone would do doc review for ~1 year to pay the bills while finding a full-time position. The good news is you’re still relatively fresh out of law school, so they will be more likely to understand this was a temporary gig. Once you’ve been doing doc review for 2-3 years, people see you as a career doc reviewer and that comes with some stigma. Probably what you say in the interview won’t change their mind about the situation, so don’t stress about it too much. Put a positive spin on the doc review in terms of experience. Particularly if this is a litigation position, you have quite a bit more experience than someone straight out of law school, so play that up. But also emphasize that this was a temporary solution and your end goal has always been a position like the one you’re interviewing for. Good luck. My big law firm hired quite a few former doc reviewers in the 2011-2013 time frame, so it is possible to make the jump from doc review to a great attorney position.

    3. Have you been project manager on any doc review assignments? If so, play that up (but understand that, realistically, to many people at a firm, doc review is doc review is doc review).

    4. Thanks for the replies. I’ve been doing it for about 8 months- no project manager experience but QC and privilege review work. The interview is for a litigation position. I think I’ll just own it but not try to draw too much attention unless directly asked.

       1. Honestly, at the junior levels, you’re going to be doing doc review on litigation cases. I think you can absolutely spin it as “you know what you’re getting yourself into” and that you are familiar with how doc review works, but that you’re looking for a legal position where doc review is only one part of your role.

          1. And, I know that you want a job at a firm, but if a firm is going to look down on you for doing honest work and paying your bills, you don’t want to work there.

       2. Priv review would be a big help. A lot of juniors can recite the law on attorney-client privilege but have problems determining if the privilege applies to particular documents. As a mid-level, I would love to have a first year who has had a lot of experience doing privilege reviews.

14. What approach do you all take when giving out your number for online dating? When is a reasonable time to give it out and do you give out your actual number or use some kind of application or something?

    1. I would give out my real phone number pretty quick. I use Google Voice for pro bono DV if you that would make you feel safer, go for it!

    2. My general rule was that I didn’t give it out until meeting someone in person. However, if I clicked really well with someone and wanted to talk to them more frequently than was practical in-app messaging, I would give it out prior to meeting in person. That was rare though. I relied very much on my gut feeling in the latter situation. I never had any issue wtih guys getting fussed about me not giving it out. They ususally responded with something along the lines of, oh I totally get it, when I explained I didn’t give my number out prior to meeting someone.

       Everyone’s reasonable is different, so what works for me might not work for someone else. I would trust your gut and go from there.

    3. I give it out once we are talking about meeting up. I give out my real name. I see no issues with it- were someone to be weird I could always block him.

    4. I give it out when they ask for it. It’s not like they can use it to track my movements or look up my social security number. There is literally no downside or risk to giving it to them–if you don’t want to see them anymore, you say so and stop talking to them. If they continue to contact you, you block them.

       I had a co-worker who was super protective about giving out her phone number, but before even meeting a guy in person would freely give out info like our firm name (where they could’ve harassed her at work without the ability to block), her neighborhood (and let them pick her up on the first or second date), and various pieces of identity info that could be used by someone just on the app to phish. It made no sense.

    5. If I don’t get a weird vibe from the guy, I give out my number before a first date if he gives it out first (he usually does). I like being able to text like, “just got here and sitting by the window” or something if we’ve never met so he knows who to look for, or vice versa.

    6. I give out my GoogleVoice number. We stick with that until he’s boyfriend material.

    7. We usually exchanged it before the first date, when we had agreed to meet, and texted off the dating app.

15. I’m OP who was conflicted about pursuing federal clerkship mid-career in my home city. Update: Judge extended me an offer on the spot after my initial interview. I gave my two weeks notice on Friday and the sky hasn’t fallen. Thank you for everyone who encouraged me to pursue this opportunity.

    1. CONGRATULATIONS!

    2. Woo hoo! That’s great!!

16. Sorry for the long post, I need advice dealing with a difficult (for me) conversation. I posted about this a couple of years back, but the situation resolved itself and I didn’t have to talk anything at that time. So here is the story.

    I am working for a company for more than 7 years now and me and the manager who hired me have been going for a walk/lunch all these years. If it is rainy, then we would drive to some nearby restaurant for lunch. He goes for walk/lunch with other people other days of the week. He is no longer my manager and we don’t work together at all.

    I am happily married. Manager is 25 years senior to me. He divorced his first wife probably four years back and married another lady three years back. The new wife is very uncomfortable with me and him going for a walk. He has to promise her that he will never drive to a restaurant with me probably two years back. So from that time we have been only walking and eating in office cafeteria or nearby restaurants. When we stopped driving together, he made a proposal for me and my husband to go out for dinner with he and his new wife so that she feels more comfortable with me. I didn’t want to do it, neither my husband. Moreover, I don’t want to my husband to go to dinner to prove to some person that I have a husband and I am not a person with loose character. Overall, it was bizarre and I didn’t want to entertain it. That is when I asked for advice. But that dinner never materialized. He never spoke about it again and I never brought it up.

    Two weeks back, he remembered it and mailed me to suggest a date when we can meet for dinner. I was on a business trip and was very busy and never answered that mail. I still don’t want to do it. I am okay stopping walking/lunch with him . Though I enjoy having conversations about work and may benefit from some mentoring during these walks, I am not willing to prove to some one that I am not trying to snatch her husband.

    So, how shall I tell this nicely?

    1. I totally understand why you feel the way you do, but personally I would just $uck it up and go to dinner one time, just to avoid the chance of offending your former boss. (He might be offended that you don’t value his mentoring enough to go out to dinner with spouses one time). Otherwise, just tell him “we’re really busy for the next several weeks, let me get back to you when things settle down” and hope he doesn’t ask again.

    2. Just go to dinner. It’s completely normal to suggest. You’re not going to prove you aren’t after her husband, you’re going because you’ve had a social relationship with this man for 7 years and meeting each other’s spouses is par for the course.

       1. +1

          If I were the other wife, I would be even more suspicious if you refused to go.

          It is not at all unreasonable to have a dinner once with your boss and his wife, considering you have eaten lunch with him, alone, every day for 7 years.

          I really have to ask…. What is going on here that you are not stating? I sense you do have a vibe/relationship with your boss that you feel some sort of guilt about. Obviously you haven’t acted on it, and probably never will. But maybe it’s something you need to acknowledge?

          And I re-iterate…. you will make his wife even more suspicious if you refuse to go, and will make life difficult for your boss. Your lunches with him may stop for good as a result.

          1. What the heck…!!! I have nothing to acknowledge. I am asking suggestion about a difficult situation that I have and you are suspecting that I have something to acknowledge? This is crazy, at least for this site which is all about career oriented women who work in male dominated industries.

             1. I didn’t get that impression from what you wrote at all, just for what it’s worth. It’s a weird situation to be put in. And it’s unprofessional for your boss to (1) tell you his wife doesn’t want you to be alone with him and (2) put you in the uncomfortable position of having to prove to his wife in person you’re not a threat to their relationship.

          2. He is not her boss anymore, fwiw

    3. Be an adult and go to dinner.

       As I wrote to another poster last week who worries about a flirty woman, I view it as my job to help significant others to be comfortable with me, not their job to sit around guessing.

       She is the chosen wife of a person you respect and consider to be a friend. I have no clue why you should have any problem meeting her, and sincerely hope it is just immaturity.

       You are also putting *him* in a bad position. And honey, if it’s between you and the wife, you’re going to lose.

       Just go to dinner. With or without your husband.

       1. Just to offer a different perspective- it’s never my job to make sure significant others are comfortable with me. It’s the friend’s job to have a conversation with his significant other and manage his own relationship and her job to deal with her own insecurity and jealousy. I don’t owe the s.o. anything. If my boss’s wife is insecure about her husband being alone with women, that’s not an issue I can tackle and resolve simply by meeting her.

          That being said, I would go to the dinner, with or without my husband, depending on scheduling, but treat it strictly like a work dinner and not a personal dinner. If you’re very clear about that boundary and keep conversation very light and impersonal (focusing on hobbies, tv shows, sports), you’ll have a successful professional dinner with your superior (as opposed to a double date between friends).

          1. But it is the former boss’s job to make his wife be comfortable, and if OP doesn’t agree to dinner, which is what the FB needs for NW, OP will lose this mentor. Treat it like a work dinner, and I think the NW would feel SO MUCH BETTER if you brought your husband, so schedule it around his availability. Sometimes Mr. Kitten has to do things he would rather not do because it’s important to me/my life/my work/etc. Mr. Conversation needs to join this difficult one because he is on your team and this dinner is a team sport.

       2. And to reiterate: you are putting HIM in a bad position. He is now going to have to explain to his wife why this wonderful young woman, who is so deserving of his time and mentorship, is not willing to meet her for dinner.

          It’s a horrible, humiliating thing to do to him. Just… don’t put people whom you allegedly respect and care about in that position.

          Here’s the email you send back: “Hi, Mentor! So sorry for not getting back to you sooner. Hubby and I are busy up through the Fourth, but would Wednesday or Thursday next week work for you and your wife? I’m so looking forward to meeting her – you have always talked about what a lovely person she is.”

    4. If he doesn’t follow up, just let it die. If he does pursue it, I think you have to be up front: “Honestly, Colleague, this seems weird to me. You know and I know that we’re just good colleagues, and the idea of bringing my husband to dinner with your wife to somehow prove that I am not a loose woman just seems icky to me. So let’s just keep walking to the cafeteria and call it good, okay?”

       And if he says it’s a condition of your continued lunches, you can say “I guess we’re going to have to give up our lunches, then. It’s been great and I’ll miss them! But I just can’t ask my husband to present himself for inspection like that, you know?”

       Or you could be eternally busy…

       1. Or you could certainly suck it up. I agree that it’s perfectly normal to have a couples dinner with a longtime colleague.

          1. If you can get your head around treating it like a normal couples dinner with a longtime colleague, I think that’s your best outcome. If your former boss has made that impossible — for example, if he’s told you too many intimate details about his marriage, or you think he’s deriving some pleasure from playing you off of his wife — then perhaps it’s time to let this one go. But try, if you can, to just treat it like a regular work social event.

             1. Yeah, after reading the other responses I think that’s your best play.

    5. You do you, and certainly don’t go out if you don’t want to, but I’ve gotta say that I don’t think it’s that bizarre to suggest dinner with spouses with a co-worker who you’ve been going out to lunch once a week for 7 years. That’s a pretty long mentorship/friendship, and if I was the wife I’d be curious about this person who my husband goes out to eat with once a week for that long. And I’d think it’d be weird if they didn’t want to go. You’re cool with eating with him during the weekday, but not in the evening with spouses? That’s weird to me.

    6. This man seems to be a very good mentor who has taken a genuine interest in your professional development. I think it would be gracious and good of you to agree to the dinner. If the wife continues to have issues with you, then you can curtail or stop the lunches then.

    7. I understand it is natural to meet his wife as I knew him for years. If he had invited us to meet her after his wedding, I would have had no issues meeting him and hie wife. That didn’t happen. He wanted us to meet her to make her feel secure which I absolutely didn’t like and don’t want to do.

       1. Just go. Seriously. If someone wrote on here about being worried about her husband’s relationship with someone at work we’d all be suggesting a couples dinner. This isn’t a personal insult to your morals. I don’t get why you are so defensive about it.

       2. I think this is a really important point. He’s asking you out to dinner specifically to make his wife comfortable with your relationship. He’s not asking you out to reward you for a job well done or because he’s genuinely interested in a couples’ dinner. And why did he even tell you about this in the first place? His personal relationship issues are not your problem!

       3. I’m anon @ 12:21 and I didn’t see this response before I posted below. But I want to say again – this isn’t information you should have. He should’ve extended the invitation for a couple’s dinner and that’s that. If you’re going to continue this professional relationship, and I’m all about not burning bridges, you need to tell him that you don’t want to hear anything negative about his wife. So, so inappropriate.

    8. I would suck it up and go to dinner if you value the professional relationship. I agree that it’s normal to do a couples dinner, and I would want to meet my husband’s colleagues and people he spends time with at work too, although not at all out of suspicion. I agree that the supposed reasoning behind it is icky. Maybe I’d reframe it this way- would you and your husband enjoy having dinner with the mentor (and I guess incidentally his wife?) If it’s just the wife that’s the sticking point, I’d go once, not to prove that you don’t have loose morals, but because that’s what you do with/for mentors. If he brings it up in the “making her comfortable with your morals” context, I’d verbally reframe it while accepting the invitation. Don’t let one person’s sour attitude spoil what could otherwise be enjoyable and a normal part of professional life.

       Plus maybe she’s insane and you and DH can go home and make fun of her. I find this to be a very effective coping mechanism.

       1. Yes, if he hadn’t mentioned the reasoning behind it and just said “hey, would you and H like to go to dinner sometime with my wife and I?” would you be so frustrated?

          Can you just pretend he never told you all that stuff about the wife not wanting you to be alone and her wanting to meet you and just go out to dinner once for the sake of your relationship with your mentor?

          I have to say, as much as I didn’t really love the company Christmas party where spouses were invited in the past, it was at least good for a neutral way to introduce your co-workers and spouse without being terrible since it was only once a year.

    9. I’m super surprised by the responses on this one…

       If OP was a female partner with a jealous husband, would we suggest she invite her male associate to dinner to make jealous husband feel better?

       It’s one thing to take out reports to dinner for a job well done, it’s another thing all together to suggest that your jealous significant other needs a dinner to make your relationship easier.

       1. Its one dinner he’s mentioned twice. It’s really NBD.

          1. But he’s also told her they can’t drive anywhere for lunches together? He’s definitely made this a “thing” in their working relationship.

       2. Maybe not, but if it was a women concerned about her husband’s relationship with a co-worker, we would totally recommend that they have a group dinner. How is this any different?

       3. I actually would but I am in the minority, looking at the comments.

    10. I agree you should just go to dinner but I also want to call you out on your bad feelings toward this woman. Presumably the only reason you know that she has any sort of problem with you is because your mentor told you, correct? That is seriously f*ed on his part. You never EVER throw your spouse under the bus, certainly not to work colleagues. He could’ve just as easily said, I’m too busy with work to drive or walk far to lunch, let’s go somewhere close. There was absolutely no reason for him to mention his wife’s jealousy. The fact that he did makes me wonder if he has a thing for you and wants to paint himself as the innocent victim who needs rescuing from an evil harpy.

        1. Yup. Absolutely.

        2. Yeah- and I know this op had posted more recently than a few years ago. It was almost this exact scenario relatively recently. There is a lot of animosity toward the wife here that I am not sure is warranted

           1. I’m not sure that’s fair. Being a little uncomfortable with a woman her husband works with is one thing, but imposing rules like no driving? That’s kind of crazy.

              1. Part of me suspects that wife said she wasn’t comfortable with these weekly lunch “dates”, and implied or asked that they stop. Then husband stops driving to lunch. Maybe husband doesn’t mention they still have lunch together, even though they aren’t “going out for lunch” anymore.

                 Remember the old adage…. There’s what he said, and there’s what she said, and then… there’s the truth!

                 The defensiveness of the OP is revealing too.

              2. I don’t know about the defensiveness you are talking about. Can you put yourself in my situation? Say You had a male colleague who you know and have a good relationship with from the time before he met his wife. His new wife feels insecure about you. You offer to stop going out for lunch. But your colleague says she will eventually understand. Colleague’s wife will not understand and colleague makes a suggestion to meet for couple’s dinner to alleviate her fears.

                 Do you think it is your responsibility to alleviate your colleague’s wife’s fears? Would you be willing to take part in a classic stereotypical role where you are a young woman who is being suspected of having some special relationship with an older boss/colleague? Would you not question that she doesn’t care about other colleagues (who, incidentally are all male) and they don’t need to have dinner with her to make her comfortable? Why should you go this extra(uncomfortable) mile to maintain a work relationship when other male colleagues don’t have to?

                 Also, I asked how to say that I don’t want to go for dinner or for lunches going further in a nice way. I don’t want to his mentorship at this level of discomfort. The interpretations, extrapolations that I am seeing here are just amazing.

              3. If you don’t want to go and are okay with losing the mentorship, then just let it go and don’t interact with him anymore. Next time he asks, just tell him you are really busy at work/at home and push it off until he gets the hint. There is no way to address it head on and not make it more weird (although I personally would just go). He already crossed the line IMO by telling you the reason, which is why this is weird for you.

              4. Or alternatively, say, “I have greatly enjoyed your mentorship over the years and I appreciate everything you have done for me. At this point, I am refocusing and dedicating time to [other things]. Thank you for the invite, but we must decline.”

        3. This bugs me too. Your mentor is making his wife out to be the bad guy unnessecarily when he should be keeping the details/struggles of his marital relationshi to himself. He’s put you on the defensive and IMO ensured that dinner will be akward if you decide to go. It’s weird that he wants to present her as the evil one to make sure that your relationship keeps going smoothly.

        4. I really have not thought about all these aspects at all..I am surprised by this kind of interpretation. I knew his first wife too who he divorced. He never said one bad word about her. I was super surprised about his divorce. He just said it was a long time coming. I didn’t ask any questions, he didn’t say anything more. I never ask anything about his current wife. He doesn’t say much other than this one thing which he attributes to the culture she comes from. It is not that often either. He mentioned before he got married to her that she doesn’t like him going out for lunches with me and she demanded that he should stop that. I offered to stop, but he felt it is just a lunch (he goes out with other colleagues on other days) and she will understand it was a no big deal. He mentioned it two years back and we stopped driving. He is mentioning it now. Honestly, I don’t think so much about what he says. I just took him for his word.

           1. OK. Having read all the explanations, it sounds like you should just go.

    11. He is your friend, right? Just go. You’re not going to prove something, you’re doing something for a friend / socializing.

17. For anyone needing a pick me up, check out Pegasus the Pony on Facebook.

    There’s a photo of him strolling into the rescue manager’s bedroom to wake her up and video of him playing with cats.

    (Also, know that he’s getting bold and teething and getting nippy since he doesn’t have a mom to discipline him. In another few weeks, he’ll be old enough to go out in the pasture with one or two of the other minis or donkeys, where hopefully he’ll learn little pony manners)

    1. I like to imagine someone told him he’s a Internet Celebrity and he’s become a tiny adorable prima donna!

       1. Oh, he KNOWS he’s something special. God help you if you walk by him without giving him attention, he screeches and pins his ears and stomps his baby hooves

18. I’m studying for the bar and could really use some advice/commiseration. I’m about a week behind the Themis schedule. Not super stressed about that, I’ve been working to catch up. However, I am STRESSED AS F about that I’m not scoring high enough on the MBE questions (averaging 60% across all subjects, with Property and Con Law being low-50s). I’ve been making outlines for each subject (which, holy hell, takes forever, but I haven’t figured out a way to memorize and understand all this stuff without them!) and tried (and hated) Critical Pass flash cards. I constantly feel anxious and I’m not sleeping very well.
    How did you memorize all this stuff? Any tips for memorization/MBE success? I know it’s just about doing the work, and I am, but I feel like it’s not paying off. I work for hours and hours on making outlines and memorizing and still screw up practice tests. I review the answers I got wrong. I just don’t know what to do and I’m freaked out.

    1. I did Barbri so I don’t know how Themis is set up, but do they not give you subject outlines? Making your own seems like a massive waste of time. I just watched the lecture video on 2x speed, filled in the blanks, and then did rounds and rounds of practice questions, reviewing what I missed.

       The only flash cards I made were for the Art. 9 essays. On multiple choice questions, you don’t need to memorize the elements. You just need to be able to spot them in the list of response choices. The best way to do that is just keep doing practice questions.

    2. What’s the underlying problem? Are you blanking on the correct answer, mis-remembering, mis-reading the choices, or encountering material you haven’t covered in studying?

    3. Keep doing practice questions. Are there consistent areas in con law that you’re struggling with (civil rights, search and seizure, takings)? If so, maybe outline just those issues.It’s normal to freak out, just keep plugging away.

    4. Oh Hai! Are you me? I think everyone I know is behind right now. The only way through is to keep on keeping on. We still have a month. Just think about how far you’ve come. I would also add that you need to sit down and spend time memorizing. Perhaps for you _making_ study aids is enough, but you also need to run through your outlines or flash cards, right?

       Also remember you don’t need to study to an A–you will need to know a lot of niggly details, but not to an A level. Just keep doing tons of probs and you will get there. Know that you’ve been a successful student and you will get there! And take breaks. No one can memorize and study 12 hours a day effectively. Take breaks when you need to and then be really “on” when you are on.

       GOOD LUCK!

    5. Wait it’s in a month right? Right. That’s what you do. The whole reason for prep is to get there by the end of July, not June. You’ll be fine.

    6. Relax. Breathe. You’re fine. I took the Feb 2016 bar. Less than two weeks before the bar, I was still getting 60% or so on most Barbri question sets and barely 50% on Con Law, which was my worst subject too. Closer to the test, I was pulling 65-70% or so on the questions, which is strong but not amazing. I ended up getting a 96th percentile score on the MBE (160 scaled). And you don’t have to do nearly that well! Oodles of people pass with waaay lower scores.

       For a lot of people, it really comes together in the last few days before the test, and the real questions are easier than the test prep. And honestly, even if you got a 120/200 on the MBE, you would still end up with a ~135ish scaled score, which is around the median and puts you in “very likely to pass” territory in most states. Sleep and take care of yourself. Study hard, but don’t work yourself into a panic about things you’re getting wrong. The people I know who failed the bar did so because they panicked and weren’t sleeping in the weeks leading up to the test.

       As far as substantive study tips, just do as many practice questions as you possibly can and make sure you understand what you got wrong. Making an outline or repeating lectures is a waste of time for most people.

    7. How have you studied successfully in the past for classes that required memorization? Things like language classes with vocab tests? Study that way for the bar.

       I found that I wasn’t learning much by making my own outlines, so I just made flashcards myself. They were not complicated flashcards. Something that would say “negligence” on the front and then just list the elements on the back. I’d do this with the materials that were assigned for review each day. I ended up with billions of flashcards, but even the act of making them was helpful. I’d take a handful and run through in line at the grocery store, etc. The most important thing is to keep plugging away. Take breaks when you need them.

    8. I’m not sure what flash cards you were using, but I found it most helpful to make my own. The act of making them made it easier to memorize them.

       How did you learn best in law school, especially in classes like Civ Pro, Crim, or Evidence that required you to know lots of rules and factors? Do the same thing for the bar. Stick with the methods that worked best for you for the past 3 years.

    9. No advice, but I’ve taken two bar exams and passed both on my first attempt. Your feelings are completely normal!! I don’t know anyone who felt comfortable going into the bar exam. It is incredibly stressful and I felt exactly how you feel now. I wasn’t getting as many MBE questions right as I wanted and I had no idea how I was going to pass. I even saw a classmate on the lunch break during the exam and we joked about how we would meet up again for the February exam. I was so sure I would fail but I passed! You will too! Just do your best and you’ll be fine!

    10. I made my own flash cards on things I needed help memorizing.

        I remembered I had to pass, not get an A.

        Remember this is a marathon not a sprint. This is June, not bar exam time. Sounds like you know your weaknesses. Make flash cards and do them.

    11. When I was studying for the bar, everyone was behind schedule. Modify the schedule to fit your method of studying. I did barbri and did not watch a single essay lecture video after the first one; I used the books for essays and just watched lecture videos instead. For memorization, use the same techniques you did in law school to memorize law. I made my own flash cards and memorized them in sets of 7. Do as many practice problems as possible on the MBE and review the ones you get wrong and the ones you guess on. You’ll be fine! Also, if you need to take a break from studying, just take a day off to recuperate so you don’t burn out.

    12. The MBE is my mortal enemy. As in, I would take a foreign barzam before taking the MBE again.

        I agree with doing as many MBE questions as possible. What helped me was to read the call of the question and the responses first, instead of starting at the top of the fact pattern. It helped me focus and pull what I needed to out of the fact pattern first instead of going through the facts, getting to the question, going through the facts again, finding the answer, and then looking for the answer in the answer choices. Then, go back over what you did and really internalize what you did wrong and right.

    13. Xanax. Wine. Running. Puppies.

19. Great article on what not to do when you join a new company:

    http://link.fortune.com/click/7025431.20706/aHR0cDovL2ZvcnR1bmUuY29tLzIwMTYvMDYvMjYvYWJib3R0LW5ldy1qb2ItdGlwcy1zdWNjZXNzLz94aWQ9bmxfdGVybXNoZWV0/55243eba3b35d02b508bb226B3b01a76f

20. I just ordered something from amazon and a random gift card balance is in my account. My DH uses the account too, but I texted him about it and he said he didn’t know anything about it. Any ideas of where the heck it came from? I mean, I can certainly find $61 worth of stuff from my save for later section to order, so it’s not like it’s going to waste…:) But it’s just kinda random.

    1. Prob the kindle Ebooks settlement. It got added to your account last week.

    2. It’s from the Apple ebook lawsuit. You must have bought a lot of ebooks. Enjoy.

       1. Or 10. 10 NYT Bestsellers in the two year period could’ve gotten you $60.

    3. Sweeeeet. Thanks!

    4. My eBooks settlement is $177. I can’t decide if I’m psyched to have the credits or horrified at how much I must have been spending on eBooks!

       1. Mine was zero, which makes me sad, but I’m cheap. Five words or less: Public Library ebooks are awesome.

          1. Me too!! Part of me is just proud I didn’t buy any books during the class period

21. Question for those of you at biglaw firms: I am a rising 2L, and I’ve heard there is a trend to email firms before OCI to schedule interviews and callbacks. My summer job and school are in the city I am exclusively bidding for OCI. It’s not NYC.

    Should I be mailing firms that are coming to my school’s OCI? It makes sense for people who are in the city they will be bidding and whose school is not located there (to not have to worry about making a flight back later), but I can’t figure out if it makes sense when there are no travel considerations involved.

    If I don’t do pre-OCI mailing, will I be behind?

    Thanks!

    1. I’m a few years out, but I do not know anyone who did this who was looking in a major market where the firm came to OCI. People did it with small hometown firms to set something up when they’d be home for the summer.

       Also, YMMV, but my law school expressly banned us from attempting to set up interviews prior to OCI. If they found out (and with hyper competitive gunner classmates, I would not take the chance that this would go undetected), you could be completely barred from participating in OCI.

    2. What city are you in? If it’s in California, I am happy to swing by and ask our Recruiting Coordinator whether this is a good idea in this market.

       1. I am actually in DC. Career services seemed uncertain if we should be mailing firms in DC. Their advice was along the lines of “the trend is definitely to apply and interview early in NYC. It doesn’t seem like DC firms are following suit, but it’s hard to tell because legal hiring timelines tend to move earlier and earlier”

          Thanks so much for the offer, though!

          1. People at my law school were doing this for DC a couple years ago. Some got jobs from it.

             I would mail them early. Maybe late July but depends when the first oci is. I’ve heard they put a hold on mailings during oci. It’s very confusing.

             1. Thanks! I’ll look into when OCIs are for the firms I am most interested in and maybe just email those. I appreciate your help.

          2. They are moving early, even DC. I just graduated and my mentees who are gearing up for OCI have been doing, at the very least, informational interviews. It is not too early – this is the trend. Good luck!

    3. Not at a big firm but recently went through this process (ultimately, big firm wasn’t for me). Unless you hear something very specific about firms in your market, do this. Send the mailers in July. I had one of the largest firms tell me they would have hired me but for the fact that I applied later and didn’t have a compelling enough reason (honest reason was it wasn’t my target market, but I told them something else, obviously) in the initial interview.

       Good luck!

    4. What? I have never heard of people doing this (Philly Biglaw). If you don’t get an OCI spot at a firm you’re interested in (due to bidding needs), I’d reach out then. The entire process sucks up so much of people’s time at the firm that no one is interested in someone pre-seeking attention.

       Also, maybe your career services is reliable with up-to-date market information, but in my experience, on the whole they seemed to be interested in giving advice solely for the purpose of making themselves SEEM relevant.

       1. I’ll add that it’s true the timeframe keeps getting earlier and earlier, but I always thought that meant the OCI game — when I was a 2L, OCI was the week before classes in late August, and it keeps shifting earlier into the summer. The earlier your school’s OCI, the more remaining slots in the summer class. But my impression was that people still played by the OCI timing as opposed to trying to interview before OCI even started…

       2. I know friends who already have callbacks scheduled in NYC (crazy, I know!). I know pre-OCI interviewing is a thing. I just don’t know if it’s worth it to email early.

          On the one hand, I don’t want to miss out on opportunities because classes are starting to fill super early. On the other hand, I don’t want to have to ask off from my summer job for interviews if I can avoid it, and I don’t want to have to make a decision super early (since NALP says you have to accept/decline your offer within 28 days or something) when I haven’t even finished the process.

          1. Check the rules – NALP doesn’t let the clock start ticking until the first day of your OCI. (“If an employer makes an offer to a law student candidate not previously employed by that employer before the beginning of the law school’s on-campus interview program, that offer should not expire until at least 28 days following the first day of the law school’s on-campus interview program.”)

             1. Ooh, good to know! This makes me much more comfortable applying.

22. Recruiter protocol? I am going to be speaking to a recruiter for the first time ever, about a position I may actually be interested in — at what point do I ask which firm she represents? Right away (which is what I would want to do)?

    1. Right away.

23. I’m a junior associate moving to another firm, and the best offer I have, turns out, would mean I’m essentially working for my husband (another big law firm). On the one hand, this would hugely simplify our lives. We also work really well together and rarely fight. We were in the same law school class, technically competing at a very competitive school, but we never had any issues and always celebrated the other’s success even if it also meant our own failure.

    On the other…I don’t know. What do you all think?

    1. What do you mean you’d be working “for” your husband if you’re both the same class year and you’re both junior associates? Does the firm in question know about the relationship? There are probably nepotism and/or conflict of interest rules that apply.

       I’d say don’t do it, even if technically not “against the rules,” if you’ll be in the same practice group, because it will be too weird for your colleagues. If you’ll be in different areas, unusual but not unheard of.

       1. Same practice group. I’d come in a year younger than my husband because my experience is in a different area. There are nepotism rules but not hard and fast–they’re well aware we’re married, and it was actually their idea to hire me (I didn’t apply).

          1. Don’t do it. Absolutely not. It’s a terrible idea. It will always look like you got hired because of him. Maybe if we were talking a 500 lawyer office in different practice groups, but same group?!? No.

             1. Who cares what it looks like if she wants the job, will be happy there and gets good experience she can use to go elsewhere? I don’t think all of the partner’s sons hired by these firms worry one bit that people will know “why” he was hired. It’s the upper class perk. Why struggle to make it on your own when you are handed an awesome opportunity?

                I would worry more about having all of your eggs in one basket. If the firm/practice area tanks, all of your family money is tied up.

          2. My old law firm acquired a practice group that had a surprising number of couples (partner couple, and two associate couples). There were other folks who had met their spouses at the firm. If you think it will be fine, and they’re fine with it, go for it.

             1. We had two couples like this at my former firm and it was fine. I think it can work if you have the right kind of relationship. I can actually imagine working with Lovely Fiance, now that you mention it.

                And who cares if it looks like you got hired because of him?

    2. Confused as to how you’d be working FOR him if you are the same law school class year. Do you mean working with him? Assuming you’re say, a third year, I think joining a firm where your husband is a third year or even a fourth year is quite different than joining a firm where he’s a partner. That said, I think working so closely with him (I’m assuming you’re talking same group, possibly even same deals or cases) seems like a recipe for disaster even if you think you work well together. For one thing, I’m not sure it would simplify your lives. I’m in a couple where we both have demanding jobs but one of the great things is we’re rarely both slammed at the same moment, so whoever is less busy can shoulder the bulk of the home responsibility while the other works themselves to death and then we switch. Will it really be fun being slammed for three months on end at the same time with no one to cook or clean or take care of you? I also think people will probably be pretty gossipy and judgmental about it and chalk any success you have up to his influence, even if he really has none. Whether or not you care about that depends on your personality.

       I assume you’ve disclosed the relationship to the firm, but if you haven’t you obviously need to. Most employers have rules about spouses supervising one another.

    3. My guess is they will take care to never staff you on the same cases so you won’t be working with him as closely as you think and won’t really be competing with him until the partnership push (and even then, theoretically, he should make it a year before you). It’s still a situation I would not want to be in, though.

    4. Ooof, different practice areas and I wouldn’t blink. Same practice area and I think you need to think really hard about this. I don’t think I’d love it as another associate on a deal because what if y’all were discussing things over dinner and then I was behind on a deal point? (Or whatever) And if you are ever having a fight or stress at home, you need to make sure it stays there. TTC? Don’t let that be something that bleeds into life at the firm. Have young kids and one of you needs to get home to the nanny? Don’t let that be a discussion in the hall and don’t use your knowledge of each other’s case loads to make the argument. That sort of thing. I think it’s not just working together but having no separation that I would worry about.

24. How much do you censor the music you listen to at work? For the record, I have my own office and would listen on headphones (but on my work laptop) but some of my favorite music lately is something that my grandmother would probably find inappropriate.

    1. Not at all. I don’t listen at my desk (cause I have a singing issue), but I’ll blast Slipknot in the parking lot with my windows open.

    2. Minimally. I have my own office and put Pandora on lightly, music with not so nice language comes up at times. Only time I care is if someone is in my office and it’s louder but even then it’s nbd. I do usually pause or mute when certain people (manager, people easily distracted, people who speak softly, people outside my usual visitors/from other departments I don’t see often) come in but sometimes forget.

       I once worked in cubes where people played an odd assortment of (then competing) music. Nobody said anything there. Then again, I worked in a less formal place where someone complained about people in cubes talking to each other, so there’s a bit of know your office involved.

       I actually would be more put off by headphones than inappropriate music, because headphones make you unapproachable/so I can’t get your attention easily if needed. However, I work where people use the intercom and speak from the hallway often.

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