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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
There’s nothing obviously remarkable about this cardigan from JM Collections, but let me and hundreds of five-star reviewers tell you: It is perfect. It’s warm, but not too heavy, super soft, and washes beautifully. The length is perfect for wearing with a pair of skinny or straight-leg pants at the office but also goes nicely with leggings at home. Overall, a total dream.
This pretty “indigo bunting” color is $23.80, marked down from $59.50 at Macy’s, and comes in sizes S–XXL. It also comes in black, white, pumpkin, and navy for full price, but keep an eye out for sales.
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Sales of note for 8.30.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
- Boden – 20% off
- Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
- Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
- Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
- Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
- White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale
Sales of note for 8.30.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off full-price purchase; $99 jackets, dresses & shoes; extra 50% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Final Days Designer Sale, up to 75% off; extra 20% off sale
- Boden – 20% off
- Brooks Brothers – Extra 25% off clearance
- Eloquii – Up to 60% off everything; extra 60% off all sale
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide; extra 60% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – Extra 20% off orders $125+; extra 60% off clearance; 60%-70% off 100s of styles
- Lo & Sons – Summer sale, up to 50% off (ends 9/2)
- Madewell – Extra 40% off sale; extra 50% off select denim; 25% off fall essentials
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Rothy's – End of season sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear in the big sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 25% off regular-price purchase; 70% off clearance
- White House Black Market – Up to 70% off sale
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Anon
I started a new job a month ago and the onboarding has been very underwhelming. I’ve met my team and got my laptop, but my boss hasn’t set up any meetings with stakeholders in the business or shared his strategy for the department. (Im in a director role in comms).
I couldn’t figure out why until I learned yesterday that he’s leaving the company, I’m getting a new boss in September, and we’ll have a new org structure in October. Obviously this complicates my onboarding,
What do I do? Just chill until the dust settles? Proactively try to set up meetings with people just to build a network? Start doing some strategic reviews or other short-term projects until new boss establishes a direction? Basically, is it smarter to act or stand by?
Anyone dealt with an onboarding curveball like this?
Cb
Oh no, no direct experiences but I had 6 bosses in 3 years in my pre-academic job, and I found it helpful to cultivate allies all over the place. I’d want to go to the new boss with a bit of a plan going forward, what are the key issue areas, what would you propose, etc?
Anon
I would stand by. No one will ding you for being unproductive, and the current people may be anxious about the reorg and may not appreciate you taking the lead. Networking is always a good idea and it can’t hurt to meet people and get the lay of the land.
Anon
Do NOT just stand by. I was in your exact position, down to being director of comms with a boss who left. You need to build your internal network, have some quick wins to show your worth and get some strategy ideas on paper to show you’re a self starter. You will need to be flexible and deferential to future new boss, but can project confidence and independence in the meantime. I didn’t do these things visibly enough and I got let go*. Don’t be me.
*There was also some sexual harassment and a good old boys network to deal with that contributed to my being let go.
Anonymous
Act. They aren’t paying you to do nothing for months.
Anonymous
In my past experiences/orgs, I would try and get on the calendar if your boss one level up to discuss these questions. How can you keep things moving until the new Boss /new structure are in place?
Come prepared with ideas, but know there may already be A Plan.
Cat
I had this happen too and co-sign this approach as effective (you come off looking proactive and organized!), but not sure where your role falls (do you have a “grand” boss?)
Lizbet
I’m also in the Comms world. Don’t wait for someone else to set up meetings with the stakeholders, do it yourself as a “get to know your group, what I should know, any gaps they see in comms and how I might help” conversation.
Nesprin
I’d go ask your skip level manager +/- your direct manager what they’d want to do- come with the list of “heres what I think I can do- what do you think”. There’s some organizations where self-starting is not appreciated and some where it is.
Replacing my favorite dress
I am looking to replace my two favorite dresses. They are probable 10 years old and from Dress Barn. They are a T-shirt style (shift?) and never wrinkle. They are both prints. They are made of 95% polyester and 5% spandex. The material is thin. The length is 35 inches long. I haven’t been able to find anything similar. Does anyone have any ideas?
Anon
Have you looked on EBay/Poshmark/Mercari to see if you can find the exact replacement?
OP
I’m actually looking to expand my collection of this type of dress. After 10 years the two I have are still going strong!
A + Fed
The J Jill wearever perfect t shirt dress is literally the perfect t shirt dress. Limited colors, however, and longer than you say — I’m pretty short and they reach my knee.
OP
I should add this is a dress for work, it just has a T shirt kind of style (maybe this is called a shift?)
Veronica Mars
It’s a T shirt style if there’s no seaming or support except down the sides (literally, a t shirt that’s extended to the knee). A shift dress may also have a similar shape but it would likely be of a heavier material, would likely be lined, and may have some kind of darting at the bust. The neckline might also be a bit more elaborate.
Anonymous
Yes, a t-shirt dress is just a t-shirt that is longer. It’s also made of casual knit fabric.
OP
Thank you! Okay, so it’s T-shirt style, just a bit dresser material than a T shirt.
OP
Thank you! Okay, it’s T shirt style. It’s just a bit dresser material.
Digby
Check out J McLaughlin – they have dresses that sound similar to what you’re describing. Some prints are too fun/casual for work, but they generally have a few work-appropriate colors/patterns each season. They have a couple of decent sales each year, and once you know your size, Poshmark and eBay can be good sources.
London (formerly NY) CPA
Was going to recommend exactly this. They’re great for stretchy patterned dresses in simple silhouettes.
Anonymous
Talbots has some print Jersey dresses that may work.
Senior Attorney
I’ve seen similar dresses at Old Navy.
OP
Thank you for the suggestions, I will check them out.
Anon
Recommendations for best sheer, your nails but better polish? Dior Nail Glow? Essie shades like Ballet Slippers?
anne-on
Are you painting your nails yourself? Or getting them done? I am a total mess when painting my own nails and adore Dior Nail Glow for being something I’m able to do myself that makes my nails look nice, and a step above just buffing. I can’t do even the sheer Essie shades myself without getting them smudged, and I would definitely notice if they chip. If you’re looking for the nail polish equivalent of tinted chapstick I’d go with the Dior.
Cat
Ballet Slippers gets chalky-streaky on me. I vastly prefer Mademoiselle or Sugar Daddy.
editor
Mademoiselle seconded. I don’t understand the fervor for the un-pretty Ballet Slippers, but to each her own.
Vicky Austin
I think it’s because it’s known to be Queen Elizabeth’s preferred shade.
Anonymous
Ballet Slippers used to be less yellow and more opaque. It was my go-to for a pale neutral pink like 2 decades ago until they changed the color.
Anon
OP here: I’ll be painting them myself.
I am a klutz with nail polish and don’t like to do it that often (I.e., I leave it in until it’s time to trim nails and start over again) and can’t keep up with colors of any sort so stick to neutrals/sheer. Thanks for the input-will order the Dior mail glow! Was bummed that Sephora & the Dior counter in Nordstrom’s/Macy’s didn’t have it.
anne-on
I had to order mine from Dior online because it was sold out everywhere else – bonus, it came with some nice samples and was packaged really nicely!
Anon
The packaging is amazing. I thought I accidentally ordered something more expensive!
Anon
Thanks! Just ordered it and am excited about the fancy packaging and free samples.
Anonymous
I’ve always been crap at painting my nails and have had good experiences with Olive & June. I like their polishes and the brush and the topcoat seems to cover a lot of sins. They have a collection of sheets and I like them all.
RR
Seconded. I cannot manage sheer at all except Olive & June.
JTM
Alison at Wardrobe Oxygen just posted about this product today, might be worth a try. She says it’s perfect for giving you natural looking nails. It’s the Londontown Illuminating Nail Concealer – https://www.ulta.com/p/illuminating-nail-concealer-pimprod2008243?sku=2550081&AID=164999&PID=116548&CID=af_164999_116548_&clickId=SVMRGiX4zxyLTLyUXIX76SH8UkBRVV1BMUyXWo0&SubID=&irgwc=1
Anonymous
Yes – this stuff is wonderful. My go to color!
Veronica Mars
Wet n Wild 2% Milk. Blows the more expensive polishes out of the water.
London (formerly NY) CPA
OPI samoan sand matches my hands perfectly. It’s more beige-y nude than pink-y.
Anonymous
I’m late to the party here but I love Londontown’s nail concealer. It’s a very light your nails but better shade and a clean brand. I really love their polishes and nail strengthened.
Deedee
Sally Hansen My Sheer is great for my coloring
Anonymous
Covid tests booked, vacation here I come!!’ Never thought this day would arrive
Anon
Woo hoo! Where to?
Anonymous
Mainly for the 50+ crowd, but has anyone has the shingles vaccine? It’s a series of 2 shots.
Anon
If you can get it, get it. I got shingles and it was the worst.
Anonymous
I got shingles at 25. It was THE WORST. If I could get the vaccine now, I would. 100%. Worth it.
Seventh Sister
My maternal grandmother got shingles, then the permanent nerve pain that sometimes happens called postherpetic neuralgia. She lived with that pain for about 4 years, it was a miserable way to go. I plan to get the vaccine the minute it’s approved for my age group.
Cat
my mom just had it, what’s your question? (Side effects? Hers were mild.)
Anonymous
OP here. Need caffeine. Yes — should I do on a Friday in case it blows the weekend? Or a light week at work (to preserve the weekend on a week I can get away with dialing it in)? Or is it your arm is a bit sore but NBD and just do whenever.
Cat
She had a sore arm, maybe a little worse than the flu shot, but obviously from the thread it varies by person!!
Anonymous
My husband and I both got the shingles vaccine two weeks ago. It was no big deal, the injection location was a tiny bit sore but didn’t interrupt our lives at all.
BeenThatGuy
I’m 45 and had to have it recently due to a medication I take. I had to pay out of pocket because I’m under the age requirement. Both shots were very painful for me. My arm was hot, red and hard for several days. For comparison, I had zero reaction to the covid vaccine and have never had a reaction to the flu vaccine.
Brunette Elle Woods
Can you get the shingles vaccine when you’re younger? I’m 36 but want it!
Anon
I’ve been turned away for being under 50, despite having had shingles twice in my 30s. The pharmacist sensed my seething about it and apologized, but still refused.
Anon
You need a doctor’s note to give to the pharmacy giving you the shot, and you can then send that to your insurance to try to get them to approve it, but from what I understand from my doctor, most won’t pay if you’re under 50. I have already had shingles and have a strong family history of people getting recurrent shingles, Bell’s Palsy, severe cold sore outbreaks (my aunt got one that went from her lip into her mouth and down to her throat), etc. My doctor wants me to get the shot but I will likely have to go out of pocket for it, which is fine. I have heard the shot side effects are not fun, anecdotally.
emeralds
I didn’t even know this was an option…do you know how much it costs out of pocket? I got shingles last year and it was miserable, plus I have some family history as well.
BeenThatGuy
I paid $183 per shot
emeralds
Thanks. I’ll talk to my doctor about it in my next appointment!
Anonymous
My husband got his first dose recently. I’ll get it as soon as I am eligible.
A + Fed
60s here. 1 shot done, will schedule the 2nd one next month. DH has had them both.
A + Fed
No side effects for either of us, except a sore arm the next day. I do know someone who was really sick, as in couldn’t get out of bed sick, for a week following the first shot. It was bad enough to make him really think about getting the 2nd shot. My sister said she was sleepy the day after her 2nd, but who knows if that’s a side effect or something else.
(Side note: I had no reaction to my Covid vaccines either, so maybe I just don’t react that way)
anon
Yes both of my parents got theirs.I didn’t remember hearing any complaints about side effects but YMMV. They got it in 2019 and there was a waitlist everywhere in our town. Hopefully that’s not an issue anymore.
Anon
I am 53 and currently getting over a case of shingles. It was not fun, but not as bad as it could have been because I got drugs within about 48 hours of the rash appearing. If you have pain that feels like a badly pulled muscle (or in my case, appendicitis except my abdomen didn’t hurt when I pressed it) and then a welt or two shows up, go immediately to an urgent care or even CVS Minute Clinic and get drugs. It will go much easier on you if you do. Within probably 24 hours of starting the drugs, my pain was nearly gone. The rash was ugly and I’ve had almost 2 weeks of kind of feeling like I have a sunburn around the area where the rash appeared, but it’s manageable with ibuprofen. I can’t imagine how much worse this could have been if I hadn’t gotten the drugs as soon as I did.
My boyfriend got the first dose of the vaccine and had a headache and some body aches for the first day or so, but wasn’t incapacitated. When I get it, I’ll probably aim for a light week at work, or maybe later in the week so if I need to, I can just take one day off.
Senior Attorney
I waited for a week to get treatment because I thought I had spider bites and it was horrible. My doctor says that’s quite common so pro tip: If you think you have spider bites, there’s a good chance you have shingles so get it checked out.
Anon
My shingles were on my neck and I also thought I had insect bites, and had that “pulled muscle” sensation someone else referenced. I noticed the welts forming on Sunday and made an appointment at my company’s employee wellness clinic for the next day, thankfully, because while I thought they were bites I also generally wasn’t feeling well, and was worried I had picked up West Nile or something from the bites. As soon as I turned my head to show the nurse, she said “that’s not bug bites, that’s shingles” and went to get the doctor, who gave me a prescription for Valtrex. I took the Valtrex for ten days and I never developed big blisters or the open sores/crusting some people describe. At first it felt like a bad sunburn, but after a couple of days I did develop shooting nerve pain that thankfully didn’t last too long. One of my friends has postherpetic neuralgia from shingles that is really debilitating for her, and apparently that’s more common to get when people don’t get on medication right away.
In my case, because I got diagnosed at work, they immediately sent me home and I had to stay home the rest of the week because the clinic doctor said when you have active shingles you are a risk to people who haven’t had chickenpox, and chickenpox in adults can be very serious. I had never heard that before. I found out later that a person I worked with closely had never had chickenpox so I was glad I wasn’t around her while I had active lesions.
Anonymous
My DH had a singles outbreak and kiddo, who had the chicken pox vaccine, had a mild chicken pox vaccine. Even getting her seen by a doctor was an ordeal (pre-covid) with seeing us outside at our car in what seemed to be full hazmat year. IIRC, we had to park in a far-away corner of the parking lot. Kiddo was fine, but I guess the chicken pox shot still gets breakthroughs (thankfully mild, <50 pox).
Anonymous
I just got it. About 4-5 days of a sore arm for each shot, and a day of not feeling well for the second one. I had a stronger reaction to this vaccine than to the covid one. But not remotely incapacitated, and I didn’t take time off work.
Anon
I had zostavax before shingrix was available. I then received shingrix. The first shot knocked me out with flu-like symptoms. My reaction to the second shot was minimal. I would have been glad for a day off with the first shingrix shot, because I pretty much ended up taking a day.
Senior Attorney
I got the first dose a couple of weeks ago. My arm was sore for 2-3 days but nothing compared to actually having shingles!!
Anon
Yes I got it. I had a reaction to both shots where I didn’t feel well for a day afterward but not as bad as my Pfizer covid vaccine reaction. Still better than getting shingles!
I actually got my Shingix shots at Safeway, my local grocery store.
Senior Attorney
I got mine at Target. Just walked right in with no appointment.
LaurenB
Yes, I got the shingles vaccine (Shingrix). FWIW I had the same exact reaction to shot #2 of Shingrix that I did to shot #2 of Pfizer — about 12 hours after the shot, uncontrollable shivering and tiredness and slight fever, but nothing that wasn’t handled by bundling up, sleeping and taking it easy for the next day.
Anonymous
I got both shingles 4 months apart from CVS. Had some mild aches the next 24 hours. My husband felt nothing. My father had shingles on his face and eye. Disfiguring , painful, and hurt his vision. Was not going to let that happen to me.
Jules
Got it at age 58 or 59; after both shots, my arm hurt a lot more than with most shots (def more than the COVID shots), but that was the only side effect. My law partner actually got shingles in his mid-60s and was utterly miserable. Get the shot.
Anonymous
I got it on a Friday and was glad to have Saturday to rest. Muscle aches and tiredness for 1st 24 hours.
Anon
I got it at age 58. I got very cold the evening after the first shot, was chilled all night long. But other than that, no side effects. My mom had two bouts with shingles that were fairly severe and I am so glad I could get the shot.
Anon
I got both shots this year (age 53). Very sore arm with both, worse than the COVID shot IMO, and some fatigue, but no other symptoms (unlike the COVID vaccine which gave me flu-like symptoms for a couple of days after shot #2). I try to do all vaccine shots on a Friday just in case and I’m always glad I did.
Coach Laura
Yes, had both. Arm was too sore to lift weights for 3-4 days but office job was ok.
Ginger
DH and I just got our second shot last Sunday. We had our first shot it February and delayed the 2nd shot as long as possible due to getting the COVID vaccine. The actual shot itself didn’t hurt as much as the first time. I had some muscle aches Sunday night. Took Tylenol Monday am and I was fine. My sister and my mother both had shingles twice and it ruined my mother’s summer one year.
Anonymous
I’d like to see cardigans with not such skin-tight sleeves. I am pretty skinny arms and feel like some are a struggle to get on. I can’t imagine wearing anything over anything but a tank. Sizing up often results in a larger body but still really-tight sleeves.
Anonymous
Right? I like to wear mine over short-sleeve shirts, but that is impossible without a line from the shirt these days.
Anon
I agree that more options/styles would be better, but it’s also not wrong to have a sleeve line showing through. People wear sleeves. We don’t always have to look as sleek as a fit model every time we live our lives.
Anonymous
It’s not the sleeve line, it’s that half of the sleeves are ruffled, bracelet-length, or otherwise weird. Even vanilla LS tees are a pain to wrestle on if you get a chill (hello, A/C on full blast when it is 90+ and humid outside). I just want something I can throw on. I guess that garment is called a fleece, b/c cardigans and I are about done.
PolyB
I’ve stuffed socks into the sleeves of cardigans to try to stretch them out a little.
Anon
This is a long-term problem and it never seems to get any better, until batwing cuts come back in style and it swings too far in the other direction.
Layering under a sweater is not a foreign concept, they need to make room for the additional fabric.
Cat
OTOH, loose arms on a cardigan are a one-way ticket to frumpville, so I will continue to layer my cardigans over shells and thin silk blouses only.
pugsnbourbon
IDK – I had a 100% cotton cardigan from Loft that had looser sleeves up top and longer, tight cuffs. Almost like a leg-of-mutton sleeve (but less extreme). It was the platonic ideal of an office cardigan and I’m still mad I put a hole in it.
Anonymous
Yes! I hate having a lumpy line under too-tight sleeves. I prefer wearing a t-shirt or long sleeve shirt in the winter for warmth. Then I can wash my cardigan less frequently. I sweat too much to wear tanks/shells and not wash the cardigan each time.
Anon
I just ordered this cardigan. I hope it doesn’t have skin tight sleeves! I only needed like another dollar to free shipping so I found a hand sanitizer on their site for $1.80 (in case this tip helps someone else!)
LaurenB
Agree completely. I have well-developed shoulders because I work out, and so many cardigans are just ungodly tight on me, and then sizing up doesn’t work either as they look like muu-muus.
Anonymous
I know that Asheville is popular to people on this board. Has anyone been to the Cradle of Forestry since COVID hit? I’m not sure how “open” it is to be worth a trip now vs later.
Also, taking recommendations for any dog-friendly places in the Asheville area (like restaurants with outdoor patios, breweries with outdoor patios, etc.). I am recalling that Sierra Nevada has trails. Not sure how things are there now. Considering just being a hermit, but the last time I tried hiking around there a lot of trails were opened but bathrooms were closed (OMFG no no no), so we had to use grocery store bathrooms (which are generally good in western NC).
Sasha
I was there over MDW–pretty much everywhere has outside spaces and I recall seeing dogs everywhere. Sierra Nevada is still great–we didn’t walk any of the trails but sat out back for a few hours.
Anon
I was there a couple of years ago, with a dog, and every outdoor patio was dog friendly. Our hotel was awesome for dogs. I think it was Aloft Ashville. They had a shelter dog in the lobby each day so they would get outings. It was very cute. I think they had doggy treats for the doggy guests too. Their indoor bar may have also been dog friendly.
Anonymous
Highly recommend the Kimpton in downtown – it is SUPER dog friendly (they get treats, bowls and belly scratches)! There’s a ton outside to do in Asheville – basically all the breweries and most restaurants have an outdoor patio.
Anonymous
Ideas on what could be causing sudden onset sleepiness?
I’m an overworked mom of 3 young kids so I’m constantly tired BUT in the past week I’ve been going to bed by 8:30 and yawning all day long. It’s like I can’t wake up. After the first couple of days, I checked my coffee to make sure I hadn’t accidentally bought decaf.
I’m not pregnant, but it reminds me of early pregnancy when I would fall asleep standing up. It would be my first suspicion but I just finished my period and DH is snipped ;).
I have a physical on Monday and will bring it up if it hasn’t resolved…but I can’t for the life of me figure out what’s changed. I’m literally yawning as I type this after 3 cups of coffee.
Anonymous
1. Could you be pregnant? That was the only time I’ve had crushing exhaustion very early in the day.
2. Do all the thyroid bloodwork. Low thyroid runs in my family and I periodically get my levels checked.
Anon
Reading comprehension, it’s a thing.
Anonymous
Babies post snip it’s a thing
Anonymous
OP here. Not when he’s been tested and also not while I’ve got my period and also not when the last time we had s*x makes it literally impossible. Biology is tough but this would be a true scientific miracle.
Anonymous
Not in the morning.
Curious
Given that implantation bleeding and babies post snip are both things, I’d grab a pregnancy test. But my partner has also been headachy and exhausted to the point of lethargy this week (not COVID) — maybe some bug going around?
waffles
Have you had a covid vaccine recently? Both my husband and I have been feeling sleepy / loss of energy since our first shot in April (our first shot was AstraZeneca, fwiw).
Anonymous
Since I’ve had my COVID vaccine in January, I have aged 8 months and grown an additional white hair.
Anonymous
Ha! They wrote my birth year wrong, so I aged in reverse :)
Anonymous
Wow. That’s a great side effect of the Covid vaccine!
Anon
When I had similar symptoms my thyroid was out of whack. Checking TsH levels at a physical is pretty straight forward.
Anonymous
Covid
pugsnbourbon
Could be iron. Sometimes if my allergies are bad my sleep isn’t as restful as it usually is.
Cora
I was having this issue and it turned out that i was anemic. I’ve had low iron before but didn’t have symptoms back then. This time I was inexplicably tired, same issue with the coffee, sounds very similar. Also, my hair started falling out. Literally a week of iron pills has led to a lot of improvement, so its worth checking out.
Elle
+1 for getting your iron checked. I felt so much more alert once I got on iron supplements after being diagnosed with anemia.
anon
For me it’s normally two causes – realizing I haven’t been eating enough iron (… or enough overall) or DH (or pets honestly…) has an uptick in allergies or congestion, and I don’t realize how much the cacophony of snoring interrupts my sleep.
anne-on
I second the suggestion for iron pills and/or B12. I suppose it’s peri menopause but my periods at 40 are heavier and knock me out more than they have since I was a teen. I am not a fan but hormonal BC isn’t an option for me due to other underlying issues. I cope by taking a good multivitamin and other specific vitamins as needed (D/b12/fish oil/etc.)
Nylongirl
Check out an ablation procedure. I suffered the same & now literally have no periods. Best kept secret.
Anon
A friend of mine had an endometrial ablation and swears it is the best decision she ever made, no more periods ever, and no IUDs to replace.
Anon
My friend just went through this and it perncious anemia. I had similar symptoms when my thyroid was off and again when my B12 was off. In both instances they were just over the line into “normal” but given my symptoms and how close it was to “abnormal” my doc agreed to treat it.
Anonymous
OP here. Would thyroid or iron levels be sudden onset like this? I’ve flirted with anemia on and off (as a teen, while pregnant) so that did occur to me, but my diet is pretty high in iron these days. If it isn’t standard to check at my physical next week I will bring it up.
I’m COVID vaccinated but got it back in April. We have some OTC COVID tests from a recent scare so I took one of those just in case as well and it was negative. It does remind me of the days following my COVID vax, though!
Anonymous
Are you on any medication? I forgot my antidepressant for one day and felt like this for 3 days after. Of course in those 3 days I convinced myself I had cancer, but then I leveled up to normal again.
Anon
This made me laugh as I pretty much did the same. I forgot to pack it on a remote camping trip and missed two doses. Luckily, my husband was driving us home because I couldn’t stay awake for the life of me. I slept the 2 hour ride home, went straight to be, slept a few more hours and still slept all night. I couldn’t believe how much it hit me. This is a good reminder that I should keep a backup pill or two in my purse or office.
No Problem
Yes, the symptoms can be sudden onset, at least for thyroid insufficiency (can’t speak to anemia). I have an underactive thyroid and when I have needed a dose change I have had these symptoms start suddenly.
Anonymous
Could it be Long covid?
Anonymous
No, I do not have nor have I had COVID.
Anonymous
Could be lower testosterone, as well.
A-non
How do you back out of an interview process gracefully? I have been interviewing for this job but a few things have been concerning to me – one of the interviewers told me they were looking for new jobs bc they haven’t gotten a raise in 3 years and their internal clients are toxic; the manager told me no one has taken a vacation in two years; everyone has been up front that they work nights/weekends routinely (not a deal breaker given comp but not what I am looking for right now).
Do I wait for the offer and decline or should I back out before the next round? What should I say?
Cb
I’d back out now, so these already overstretched people don’t have to waste time. Sounds like a bullet dodged for you!
AugNon
If you wouldn’t accept the job if offered and there’s nothing the Co could say to change your mind, I agree it’s better to step away now. If you’re in discussions with an internal recruiter/HR, I’d send an email saying that you’ve decided to pursue other opportunities and have decided to withdraw from the recruiting process. If they ask for more detail, I’d probably still be very vague vague. If you’re talking to an external recruiter, you might be more direct, but I still would be careful and position it as “the work/life balance that the interviewers describing was not consistent with my goals.”
Anonia
“My circumstances have changed, and I am withdrawing from the interview process. Thank you for taking the time to speak with me; I greatly appreciated the chance to learn more about your company.” All true statements, no burned bridges, and you’re out.
anon
+1,000. I did this recently and it went fine.
Anonymous
To follow-up to yesterday’s Q re breakthrough infections, I now know of one. An elderly co-worker (vaccinated)’s also-elderly wife (also vaccinated) was feeling bad and got tested: she is positive and he is negative. She does not work; he still works a full schedule (and is full of joy and vigor) even though he was born in the 1930s. I hope she is OK — right now, she just feels mildly ill. He is a ray of sunshine and an office treasure and I am worried for him/them.
Anonymous
Oh no. I hope they get through this without serious symptoms.
I saw the thread late, but I know of two (and a half?) breakthrough cases.
One, a friend’s fellow gym-goer, fully vaccinated. I don’t know how severe the symptoms were or where they picked it up.
Two, a friend’s partner, they are both fully vaccinated. Partner seems to have been pretty sick, friend did not test positive. Not sure how they got it.
The half – an unfortunate colleague who got it between his first and second shots. He was out of commission for weeks.
I'll add
my spouse. full Pfizer got it in NYC.
had a man-cold for 7ish days. we wore masks/separated in the house and I (full Moderna) got nothing.
i’m pissed and annoyed and arghgghrrghg
Anon
Pissed and annoyed and arghgghrrghg are textbook symptoms of Wife of a Man Cold Sufferer
Curious
Y’all. This is my life this week.
anon
Why did you separate in the house? Do you do that for regular colds and stuff? Asking because covid while vaccinated seems to be essentially just a cold
I'll add
we both work for strict/careful companies and if I somehow managed to breakthrough too we were not interested in a collective 4-week household quarantine. I don’t follow covid-media/science on breakthrough to breakthrough — so we felt it better to revert to full covid protocol.
Anonymous
Randomly, does anyone have a Kia Telluride? It looks really, really nice and I’d have never thought that about a Kia. Now I find myself wanting one (it is all theoretical, as it seems that there are no cars to buy now at any price) as a replacement vehicle for my current decade-old minivan.
Anon
I do! Traded our minivan for one. I love it, and also never thought I would own a Kia. (In fact, I love it more than my Audi.) They are in HIGH demand, so start looking and getting on waitlists now. We managed to buy ours for MSRP by going to a dealership outside of our HCOL metro area (and I know someone else who did as well).
Anonymous
Ha! Same here. Bought a Kia SUV due to a life circumstance; now drive it more than my Audi :)
Anonanonanon
Ditto!
coffee
I do and love it. Very spacious and comfortable even for tall adults in the 3rd row seats. Would buy another in a heartbeat.
Anon
We rented one a couple months ago and LOVED it. Now I want one too!
Pep
This is the hot SUV right now. If you can even find one, you will pay well over MSRP.
Anonymous
I had one. At 52,000 miles it just turned off as I was driving 50 miles per hour on a highway. Full failure. No power steering, power braking, nothing. Brakes overrode all the systems and automatically stopped me as a built in safety feature. Good new that I wasn’t hit but it was frightening. Got rid of it soon after.
Anon
Woah that is terrifying! If you’re not attached to the Telluride, OP, I vote for a Highlander Hybrid. I love it and am happy to have a hybrid. Otherwise would feel irresponsible for but an SUV that gets terrible gas mileage.
Cb
Job update from yesterday – I got the job! The plan is to commute, leaving husband and kiddo in home city, while I rent a room and spend 3 nights there during term time in city B (and hopefully less May-August when there is no teaching). My parents have agreed to come once a month, and hopefully my MILs will do the same, so my husband has another set of hands. It’s a quick flight, 30 minutes. That’s the plan for a year or two, while we figure out what is going on politically, job-wise etc. A secondment for my husband might also be a possibility. It’s a bit of a tricky place, which has gotten trickier in recent years so I want to make sure we really get a feel for it before making any long-term decisions.
We love our current lives so it’s hard to consider leaving, but I’d be unemployed come January anyways. Any advice on organising life across two cities is very much welcome.
Ribena
My dad did this until the start of March last year (and still has a bag of stuff in the store room of the hotel he stays in in the other city!) and his advice to me when I was considering a similar thing was to make it as routine as possible – if you’re always in that city T-W-T and in your main city the rest of the time it’s a lot easier to plan travel, meetings, and your social life.
Cb
That’s really good advice and probably easier for kiddo as well, if I’m always home Thursday/Friday! And I will forever remember telling you over coffee”I will never leave this city!” before decamping to the suburbs a few weeks later. I could have at least moved toward the airport…
Ribena
Life takes us all to strange places! Last month I was strolling around the town my mum grew up in with her thinking I could definitely live there…
No Face
Congrats on the job!
I would have another set of stuff in the rented room (chargers, clothes, toiletries, etc) so that you can travel between the cities with just your purse. Maybe have a neighborhood teen come play with kiddo on the nights you are out of town so husband can make dinner and take care of home stuff. I would take advantage of nights away by networking, and grinding through the non-teaching work so that you can be more present at home. That’s all I can think of, never having that experience.
Cb
Going to put all the retirees in our neighbourhood to work. One day I went looking for my son and he was propped up on the fence having a chat with the lady next door :)
Anonymous
There is a 7am Monday morning flight that gets you there before 8. Unless your teaching days starts very early I’d take that if possible. If the block is you not being able to drive, learn how.
Ribena
If it’s the city I’m thinking of it’s awkward to get to any other way than by air, annoyingly.
Cb
I did check ferry times, it’s very cheap but takes an age, and I am notoriously seasick.
Ribena
Also the train doesn’t go to the ferry so it just feels very full of faff and likely to go wrong. Very different than when I go to the Isle of Wight – I step off a train at Lymington Pier and the ferry is right in front of me
Cb
I will eventually learn (but there is a 6 month waitlist for drivers tests). We are a one car household so it would leave my husband carless and cost a fortune in parking. Will see, once things are confirmed, about carpool options, maybe someone works at the airport.
blueberries
Congrats on the job! When I lived between cities, I liked having sets of as much as possible in each place (toiletries, meds, clothes, etc).
ArenKay
Cb, I’m stoked for you. My only basic advice, that you two may already be doing, is to have your kid participate a bunch in household chores at his level. Our kids did this from the time they were able to walk, which led to comedy (they’d empty the dishwasher by putting silverware into drawers above their heads, so they couldn’t see the slots). We just rolled with it and lived with a bit of chaos, and it’s led to them being really consistently participatory in household stuff (they do their own laundry and cook family meals now). That will take some pressure off your husband when he’s winging it solo.
On a separate note, I also hope you and your best work friend are ok. I remember she was a finalist too and you both thought it was awkward.
Cb
Aww, that is sweet of you to ask, he’s doing fine, shortlisted for a job in his hometown so we are keeping everything crossed.
Anon
I did a SFO to NYC commute for about five years when my kids were elementary school age. It was fine. It was hardest on me though I felt a lot of working mom guilt of course. I’d actually say my quality time with my kids increased because I was much more focused on it and not spending all weekend doing chores when I was home.
Weekends at home were mandatory – in all that time I only stayed in NYC over the weekend twice.
Good luck!!
Anonymous
Not sure where you are going to stay when at work, but if you can leave a wardrobe there, I would do that and throw some money at getting things laundered there while you are at home. Simplify any decisions you can — eat the same things while away, etc so you don’t have to worry about it.
Think about setting up a routine with your child — maybe buying some of your kids favourite books so you can have a copy at work town and read a bed time story with your little one over FaceTime.
Good luck!
Anon
I feel like I’m shedding more hair recently, and wonder if a change in BC could be to blame? I recently switched from a BC with estrogen to one without (Junel to Slynd), and am curious if the drop in estrogen could be to blame. If so, will the shedding eventually stop or slow down? Should I consider just going back to my previous BC with estrogen?
grants
How old are you?
Definitely possible. Check with your OB/GYN.
OP
Mid-30s
Anon
We are under contract for our first time and just got the inspection report. Is it normal for them to find something? How do you know if what they found is too much to deal with?
Veronica Mars
Your realtor helps you and tells you :) They will find things, but you just have to determine if it’s worth it.
Anonymous
Yes finding “something” is normal. Talk to your realtor.
No Problem
It would be abnormal NOT to find something. Every home has issues, both big and small. Not everything needs to be fixed, or fixed right away.
For determining whether something is too much to deal with, the report should provide some level of detail on the severity of an issue (if obvious) or the need to investigate further. Hopefully your inspector is available to talk through what’s in the report to give you a sense of how big a deal something is. Things like replacing old smoke detectors and installing GFIs in bathrooms? Not a big deal. Needing to rewire the entire house because it has knob and tube wiring? Big deal.
Anonnymouse
Exactly – there will be multiple things, but not all things are important to fix right away.
Anonymous
I think our inspection report ran to 20 pages for a house built in 1910. Look for things that are expensive to fix and decide if they are dealbreakers or if you want to ask for a discount on the price. A foundation problem would be a deal breaker for me. There was a broken burner on the stove, which we asked the sellers to fix. We asked for a discount because of a (fixable) problem with the roof.
anon
They’ll always find something. Depends on the age of the home, but things like non GFCI outlets are common in older homes and are easy fixes and minor enough that you’ll be haggling at that point. Tube and knob will be expensive to rewire and should be negotiated. From my experience, plumping is always expensive so should be negotiated. I’m kicking myself right now because I thought it would be petty to negotiate a leak here and there but they add up! Get estimates from a professional i.e. a plumber or electrician, not your realtor. Realtors always play down costs to get the sale moving.
Anon
Negotiating in a seller’s market seems pointless – there will be other buyers who won’t care about leaks
Anon
I think it’s worth asking. All they can do is say no to your request, right? If the seller says no they will not pay for a thing it still won’t cancel the agreement of sale – they buyer can choose to accept it or walk.
anon
That’s not true. Negotiating is always on the table. The seller doesn’t want the hassle of killing the deal and finding a new buyer all over again either. I lost a house where the winning offer was supposedly higher than mine with a larger appraisal gap to boot. But closing records show it being sold for 12k under what I offered, meaning there was negotiation involved after it went pending. This was in May. You won’t know until you ask. All of the things that would be “petty” added up to nearly 20k for me in the end.
waffles
I totally disagree with this. If it’s a hot market and the seller thinks it can re-list and sell for a higher price, he or she will use any negotiation as an opportunity to get out of a contract. It really depends on the market.
Anon
“The seller doesn’t want the hassle of killing the deal and finding a new buyer all over again either.” Not true at all. I agree with Waffles that they’ll use anything like this to get out of the contract completely.
Anon
The seller, at least per my state’s standard contract, doesn’t have the ability to get out of the contract if the buyer asks for things found in the home inspection. The seller doesn’t have to grant what the buyer asks for, of course. But you will absolutely not get anything that you don’t ask for and there are no consequences to asking so it’s kind of silly not to ask.
Anonymous
The seller can absolutely get out of the contract. The seller says, no, I won’t pay to fix those things, and the buyer walks.
anon
I negotiated and got seller concessions as someone who recently bought in this hot market. Of course it’s YMMV as with everything, but I don’t know why some of you would leave cash on the table based on some sweeping assumptions about what the seller would or wouldn’t do.
Anon
They should always find something. It really depends what they find – major issues (septic failure, big foundation issues, rampant termites) might be too much but things like minor electrical work or needing to vent a bathroom fan are generally not a big deal. What are the big things they found?
anne-on
They will 100% find something. Your realtor should have suggestions for local contractors/plumbers/electricians (or check NextDoor or something similar) to give you quotes. I’d pay more attention to plumbing and electrical as that speaks to stuff that could be wrong behind the walls.
Be aware that everyone is SUPER busy so it might be hard to GET it fixed. We’ve been working with our tradespeople for 9+ years (old house that we are slowly updating/fixing) and they’ve told me they are turning away work left and right and pretty much only working with their current clients and not taking on new people.
Cat
I would be shocked if there is a house anywhere where an inspector turned up empty handed. Whether and how much to negotiate depends on what they found. We have not had a great experience with realtors knowing how much stuff is in actual dollars as opposed to “whoa term-tes” but if you have a go-to contractor you could ask them.
Anonymous
It’s time to get a second inspector if they find nothing. No single rotten trim board or outdated code item?
Anon
Right, unless the house was built last month (and maybe not even then) I would expect them to find something. When we sold our house that was built in 1964, we had three inspections done (pre-listing, first offer that fell through when the buyers didn’t get their loan application approved, second offer that we closed on) and all three inspections found issues – some of which weren’t the same across the inspections! The house we bought that was built in 1989 also had some things show up on inspection. There’s a huge difference between an issue with the foundation that’s going to cost $50k to fix and a trim board that’s in need of replacement, which people can usually do themselves (or get repaired inexpensively).
OP, if this helps – I do remember when we got the pre-listing inspection on our old house, being overwhelmed at the number of issues the inspector found, before a Realtor friend went through the report with me and pointed out – this code issue is due to the age of the house but you’re grandfathered in and don’t have to fix it; this issue you guys can fix yourself in 30 minutes; this you’re going to need to call someone in to fix, etc. The last inspection we got called out an issue with the folding ladder in the attic access door that the previous two inspections didn’t mention at all, and my friend said, because you guys had addressed so much already the inspector may have been looking for things to call out to justify their fee. Which apparently does happen. In the case of the attic ladder, it was not an issue at all for the buyer and we did nothing about it. Your Realtor needs to go through the inspection with you in detail and give their input on what’s a big deal vs. not a big deal and then discuss what you want to do about it. If you’re in a hot market and there’s no negotiating on repairs, fine, but you should know before you close if there are major issues you’ll need to get fixed right away (electrical, plumbing, roof, foundation, HVAC would be what I would focus on) vs. more minor things you can fix yourself or get fixed later.
Anonymous
Even on a brand new house they are going to find something. The house was built by humans after all. I had an inspection on my new house that turned up some issues – most were minor but a few were roof issues that warranted a re-inspection.
Help Getting Dressed
Like many of you, I can’t figure out how to dress for a return to office in a new job in a few weeks. I’m 5’3″, size 12, in what I consider an athletic hourglass shape (broad shoulders, muscular arms and legs, large bust). My pre-covid attire consisted of slightly loose sheath dresses or black/navy pants with a blouse/sweater, all in dark or jewel-toned colors. I’ve been trying to buy new clothes since my old clothes are a little outdated, worn or not sized correctly anymore, but have had zero luck. I carry most of my stomach weight below my belly button, so I’ve found that all of the new higher rise pants just accentuate my belly in an unflattering way. And if I can find a mid-rise pant, I don’t know what length they should be – trouser or ankle length? And if we’re going with ankle length, will we need new pants in the winter time? Sheath dresses have been worse. Maybe after a year of sweatpants I just can’t tolerate anything form-fitting, but between the scratchy fabrics and clinging to my stomach, I’ve returned every dress I’ve bought. In addition to all my normal go-tos (Banana Republic, Ann Taylor, Nordstrom), I’ve been ordering a ton online from new-to-me places – Quince, Brooks Brothers, Ministry of Supply, Stitch Fix. Any other suggestions on either places to shop or ideas on what might be flattering for my body type?
Anonymous
You might try Basler and Hobbs, both available at Bloomingdales.
Curious
A friend with swimmer’s shoulders and strong thighs but perhaps a smaller bust likes Elizabeth and Clarke.
Anonymous
Maybe I am just getting older haha (I’m 38), but I just ordered a couple things from Talbots that I really liked. A cute, comfortable dress and a couple of pairs of pants. They are supposed to be ankle pants but I’m short and they fit like regular pants on me.
Anon
If you haven’t already, go to the mall and try on clothes. My trick is to grab the size I think I am, plus a size larger and maybe even a size larger than that and take it back to the dressing room. I generally start with trying on the largest size I brought back and work my way down especially on pants. It’s easier that way to figure out if this is something I could alter to fit or if I just needed a bigger size. My other trick is to just buy clothes with European sizes that I have to guess the size I need (can never remember the conversion) which generally (again) results in me grabbing the right size based on look. Another trick, is just to embrace the older lady (designer) brands. There is a reason why they’ve stayed in business so long.
Anonymous
Does anyone feel like they have a friend or family member that’s so negative that it gets to you? I don’t even mean about the pandemic as I know everyone’s feelings on that differ. So setting that aside, it’s just the non stop – nothing is good enough ever. You say A happened that’s good, she’ll say yeah but B didn’t happen that would’ve been better and A is somehow ALWAYS unfair to some aggrieved party. Ex – a donor to Morehouse paid off all the college debts for the entire graduating class — yeah but that’s unfair to the juniors, sophomores, people who last minute didn’t graduate. Uh yes I didn’t say it was perfect but what a huge gift to the seniors. That’s just one small example but it’s draining. Anyone else with friends/family like this? What do you do?
Cat
send them the link to the SNL Debbie Downer skit
grants
Yup, for sure.
It is their personality. You can’t change it. You have to try to let it slide off, and spend less time with them if you feel they are getting you down. And it often gets worse with age.
Sometimes I will just be like “WOW… you are so negative! I think it’s wonderful and will choose to be happy about it….” and then change the conversation, or walk away. Let them know that it had an effect on you.
But always keep in mind, if this is a person you care about especially…. could they be depressed? Depression often shows like this, especially in the elderly. The classic description of the cranky old man, isolated, shaking his kids at the kids… is the classic depressed and lonely old man.
Anon
Yes. I have a friend (former colleague) that is just so incredibly negative about everything. EVERYTHING. She can go on for hours. HOURS. I had to distance myself from her because complaining is conversation for her, and it can really bring you down. It’s one thing to commiserate about little work foibles. It’s another thing to think the whole world is awful and watch her detail all the ways, in excruciating detail. Being “too busy” to listen to all this made things better for me.
Anon
Same here…Great advice!!!
Anon
Agree. In my case it was a (now thankfully former) coworker who latched onto me and wanted to hang out and complain all the time. I finally figured out I had to be way too busy and I also had to work with my office door shut quite a lot and point at the speakerphone – universal symbol for I’m on a call – if she tried to come in. A headset is also really good for faking this.
Anon
It may be that the person tries to take a contrarian position to whatever you are saying. So if you say something negative, do they point out the silver lining to the cloud?
I sometimes have this issue with a family member who always tries to take the opposite argument of whatever I’m saying. I have had to point it out since they thought they were just making conversation, and to me it was coming off as conflict/argumentative (and I hate arguments).
Anon
Yes. These folks have learned that they get attention by differing from the positive and calling out the negative, the exception, the victims etc. This tactic gets them some immediate listeners who think “maybe this person is right, what else does she know?” But smarter folks know better and tire easily of this tactic. Some people have to be center of attention and can’t stand easy, light conversation that everyone agrees. They get a big ignore from me..change subject and continue to highlight the positive.
Anon
I have a good friend who didn’t start out like this, but she’s gotten like this over the last several years, and as a result I’m distancing myself. I am cynical and sarcastic by nature, but I can’t deal with someone who absolutely has to find the negative side of anything and everything (and then fixate on the negative ad nauseum). It’s emotionally exhausting spending any amount of time talking to her. I limit time spent with her to a couple of hours or less and keep the frequency to maybe once every three months. I feel bad because we were once very close friends, and I don’t think she realizes she’s doing it. After a group happy hour a few months ago, another friend and I talked about trying to talk to her but aren’t certain what to say. I would prefer being up-front with her about why I (and a few other people) don’t want to hang out with her as much any more to doing this “slow fade” thing, but I don’t know how to tell someone “your negativity and pessimism are bringing people down and you need to change it.” It feels like I’m asking her to change a fundamental part of her personality, which doesn’t seem fair.
divorce
Honestly, I think it is more unfair to just slow fade. It would be a kindness to tell her, but try to tell her while asking some questions about her…. “is there something going on? Are you down/depressed? I’m worried about you, and your negative talk is really starting to have a bad effect on me.” It’s hard to do, but for someone who was a close friend, it’s a kindness to do this. And I say this as someone who cut out a negative long term friend who was stressing me out, and I still feel guilty about it.
anon
I had a friend like that in high school. It took me a while to realize the pattern, and that every time we hung out would leave me in a funk. Now I am better at realizing this in a new person I meet and immediately rule them out for any potential friendship.
I don’t have great advice for family, unfortunately.
Anon
So, that was me. I had learned that complaining was conversation growing up and didn’t realize its impact on others until someone who cared about me told me. I’m now much better. If you’re close, its worth saying something.
Seventh Sister
I have to call my husband on this a little bit because he had the same dynamic growing up and while my own family’s “let’s pretend everything is peachy!” has some drawbacks, sometimes faking being pleasant is better than just grumbling around because it’s Monday.
The friend I have who is super negative. I swear, she’d complain if her kid got a full ride to Yale but it didn’t cover airfare for study abroad. She can be lovely, but I don’t get in touch if I’m feeling super anxious or down on myself (or my kids since she looooves to compare). Also, I’ve known her long enough that even though she’ll complain and complain about something, it’s highly unlikely that she’ll actually seek to change that thing (e.g., school can’t do anything right but somehow she never switches her kids despite the opportunity).
Anon
Same! I noticed a friend/coworker doing this and was annoyed and then realized I do it myself. I made a new years resolution to stop (and asked here for advice!) and was able to, mostly, stop.
Anon
My mother is like this, and I can tell I tend toward negativity/cynicism as well, so I’ve been working on this in therapy and trying to call it out when she goes too far down that path. I noticed my dad calling her out on it, too. If it isn’t too bad, I just ignore it or commiserate. But I’ve found that the only way to get her to stop the negativity spiral is to call it out and ask questions about why she thinks that way.
So for your example, I might say, I think it’s great! Do you think the donor should have not given at all? Can you imagine how helpful it would have been if I had received such a gift? What do you think would have been a better way of distributing such a gift?
Anonymous
WWYD. I have a neighbor (70ish widow) who believes her property line to be somewhere other than where it is. It’s a little unclear, but when we moved in, we consulted with our real estate lawyer and we’ve since had a survey done. We have had the boundary staked in the past.
In any case, she’s normally a very easy neighbor. We recently planted a bush on our property and she’s now sent me two separate emails asking us to move the bush off her property (why this is even remotely an issue, I have no idea. It’s not even somewhere she can see from her back yard; I’m sure she only saw it on a walk and doesn’t like that we put something on what she thinks is her back woods property).
Do we:
1) Ignore this. We know it’s on our property, and I’m also 99% sure she won’t have her landscapers come dig it up
2) Send back (again, as we’ve done this every time some weird property line issue comes up) our survey and show her it’s not actually her lawn. It’s also not a plant that will grow over into her property.
I would normally do the second, but we’ve done this before and she still, for whatever reason*, thinks her property goes further than it does. I’m team “continue to ignore these emails, literally nothing good will come of responding” and DH is fed up wants to reply stating “this is our property, we will not be moving the plants. and also, your fence is 5″ on our property line.”
*I don’t know for sure, but we are guessing, that her husband believed this and got the former residents of our house to cooperate. Her husband died about 5 years ago. I’m pretty sure this is more of an emotional battle for her at this point than her actually caring where a small hydrangea at the back of a 1 acre lot goes.
Anonymous
The whole tone of this is pretty mean-spirited. “Her husband believed this and got the former residents of our house to cooperate.” In practice, people don’t really know where their property lines are. They rely on landmarks like fences and plants, which may be in the wrong place. Before we had a survey done as part of planning to put up a fence, both we and our next-door neighbors thought that about 6 feet of our yard actually belonged to the neighbors because that’s where the previous residents had stopped mowing. The neighbors might have been a little miffed when we showed them the survey, but they moved on. This woman is probably not trying to claim part of your yard through adverse possession. It’s likely that she, her husband, and the previous residents have always just assumed that the fence was on the property line, and 5 inches is hardly anything to worry about. If anything, she probably genuinely believes that you are trying to encroach on her property. Just nicely keep showing her the surveys and don’t get confrontational. “Oh, yes, we wanted to make sure that we were planting the tree in the right place so we looked at the survey. The property line is actually right here–see?”
Anonymous
It does sound mean spirited, but we’ve been through this several times in the 6 years we’ve lived here. She’s not being logical; she’s emotionally tied to whatever her husband told her was the edge of the lot. We’ve sent her the survey a bunch of times. I’m pretty sure she thinks we doctored it or something.
The Original ...
Well she’s a neighbor who isn’t being logical, which means there’s reason to calm her and logic won’t do it. I wonder if you might tell her that you’re thinking about adding to the area now that the survey shows where that line is and then say that you would love her opinion on what to add and ask her if her husband had a favorite color or if she does. I know it’s pandering and unnecessary, but you seem bothered by her repeated behaviors and they likely won’t stop because this seems to be her defending her husband or on behalf of him (in her own mind). Maybe appeasing her will work better? If it doesn’t, I’d just avoid her and ignore her.
grants
This is really kind, and I hope something I would do.
Anonymous
OP here. This was sort of my thinking. “Oh, not much grows there since the snow piles up in the winter. Your yard is so lovely. What would you suggest?” DH said that’s just poking the bear.
grants
I would choose the kinder approach, as this is likely a lonely older woman with too much time on her hands. And she lives next door to you and will for a long time.
I would send the survey to her again, and/or even go over there in person and maybe explain it to her while you walk the property line. Is it possible she doesn’t understand the survey? Has early dementia? Is depressed and forgetful?
I would also call the city/village and ask if they can send someone out to review with her her property line, and provide them a copy of the survey.. if your town has a government office for this. Ours does, but yours may not.
Anon
I would just think it’s important to establish for when she is no longer the owner of the property, and it passes to someone else. In my state, if that fence is on your property long enough, it becomes her property if you don’t do anything about it.
pugsnbourbon
I’d respond but keep it light and breezy. “Hi neighbor, based on our recent survey (attached for your reference) the bush is within our property line. Thanks!”
If she’s otherwise a good neighbor I wouldn’t bring up her fence. Honestly we have not-great neighbors and their fence is absolutely on our property line, but it’s not worth the fight to us. Neighbor stuff can get weird fast.
Anon
I would respond for records reasons, and reattached the survey, and be breezy about it.
She sounds actually like she is trying to create a record, which could come back to bite you regarding the fence and other things. Play the game, nicely.
If she wants to be a weirdo, she can be. But it’s not on you to control her feelings or reaction. She doesn’t sound hostile.
Anon
*reattach
Anon
+1 Respond and send the survey again, but make it no big deal.
Cat
I would continue to correct the record (nicely) for property ownership reasons, even though it feels petty.
anonshmanon
+1. Continue to correct the record, try not to read too much into this. If my (70ies, widowed) landlady is any indication, this could be chalked up to regular forgetfulness more than malice. She forms an opinion once and then will not really listen to a correction, or it doesn’t really stick. Next opportunity she will spout her previously formed opinion. For example, she was convinced that the previous tenants had no use for the fruit from the trees in the garden, so she encouraged neighbors and the gardener to help themselves. The previous tenant tried to correct that record many times, but eventually it just became a story of rolling his eyes over the stubborn landlady.
Anonymous
Of course reply
Anon
I’d say “Here’s a recent survey we had done. The bush is on our property. Also, your fence is on our property. However, we do not mind you keeping your fence where it is while you are the owner of the property” I also like the idea of giving her some say in what you plant there. It’s nice to do that generally for neighbors when you are on a property line. You could add “Are you not a fan of hydrangeas? I plan on planting some more plants along the property line and would be happy to plant one of your favorites too.”
Anon
I particularly like this because giving her permission to leave the fence there is a good way to negate any claims she may have for adverse possession. If she’s possessing with your permission, it isn’t really adverse!
Senior Attorney
+1
Anon
Same. And beware of casting her as a doddering old biddy because she’s 70. Most 70 year old I know are sharp as tacks.
Anon
+1
Anonymous
OP here- she is very sharp. And my parents are in their 70s and I can see them doing exactly this! I think others above have talked about dementia, etc. and that’s just not the case here.
anonshmanon
I wrote the comment with the landlady. She is a sharp, feisty old lady, but once she makes up her mind about a thing, it’s hard to get her to change it. There is a forgetfulness of unwelcome facts or stubbornly not listening to people telling you that you have it wrong, which is neither doddering nor demented.
anon
Because of her age… could she also have dementia? I’m only asking because you say you’ve had to repeat the information multiple times. In any case, I do agree to reply and keep a trail, and keep it succinct. It shouldn’t be, but squatters rights is a thing in my state so you should protect yourself if it ever reaches the court.
Anon
A lot of good advice here, but I wouldn’t ask for input on what you’re planting or planning to do. I understand the thought behind that as a gesture, but I think that opens the door for her to try to dictate what you do with your yard, and not just this one time.
Anon
Ok a fence 5” over your property line would be a RIDICULOUS fight to start over what sounds like a very large property. I would send her a very clear response, the fewest number of words as possible. “The bush is on our property. I’ve re-attached the property survey we had done” and then drop it.
Anonymous
I second this. And maybe put up a small decorative fence (there are “no dig” fences that are easily to put in and remove) and/or larger markers where the stakes are
Anonymous
+1
Anon
We’re telling my kids (8 and 6) that we are getting a divorce this weekend. While I think we will coparent successfully and peacefully, it’s the lowest point of my life. If you have any insights to share, particularly if you are a child of divorce parents, about how to handle this lovingly and gently, I would love to hear them.
Anonymous
No insight, but sending you lots of love.
Senior Attorney
Aw, hugs. You are right that this is the lowest point but the good news is it gets better from here.
I divorced my first husband when my son was 6, and he shocked us by being all perky: “Yay! I get to have two houses just like my friend Gabe!” And of course it was all an act. So be prepared for anything including a lot of denial. Much love to you and your family.
divorce
I’m so sorry.
I was around this age when my parents split up, for the first time, and they handled it poorly.
If you can, plan ahead of time who will speak first, exactly what you will say, to avoid blurting things out. They will remember those words forever. Do NOT ask them to make any decisions/choices. Just try to be calm, take turns speaking, reinforce how much you both love them. That this isn’t their fault. That you both will still be there for them always. If someone will be moving out soon, say who will and reinforce how they will still be close and you will see them often. If they ask questions, try to calm their fears. Don’t say too much, or talk too long. They will be sad, and overwhelmed. It is ok for you to cry too. Try to hide all anger.
When my parents split up, my Mom was so upset she couldn’t speak. So we sat there quietly wondering what the family meeting was all about. And then my Dad blurted out, angrily, “We’re splitting up!!”. And then he went on to say he was moving out, and asked us where he should live?!?! We just stared at him, not really understanding. Then get mad and hurt that we weren’t gushing that we want him close and that we would miss him etc.. We were kids. In shock. We didn’t understand.
Gifts to your children – never saying anything bad about your ex-husband, co-parenting peacefully with a mediated divorce, and getting your kids into counseling early if you sense they are acting out/having issues/isolating. Also, be very careful once you start dating again, about introducing new partners into your kids lives.
My parent’s poor relationship and divorce damaged me and my brothers tremendously, and we have never had normal relationships/marriages, despite counseling.
Anonymous
My parents divorced when I was 13 and my brother was 10. They told us together and held us while we cried, and then were really, really phenomenal for the next several years. I made all sorts of (wrong) assumptions that my mother never pushed back on, I was horrible to both of them (see being 13) and they both continued to be loving (and firm), and I never heard them say a word against each other. They would go for walks if they needed to discuss stuff, and they made it clear that they discussed every decision. I’m honestly in awe of how well it went, and the remainder of my time at home was much more pleasant than before they divorced.
BUT!!! once I was at college it was like a dam had broken and I heard every issue either had ever had with the other. While I think it was appropriate that I heard more about their relationship and how it dissolved as I got older, I didn’t need to hear all of the long term grudges. They do meet up occasionally now (without us kids) and seem to have a cordial relationship but after my 20s I made a hard and fast rule that I refuse to ever discuss the other parent. I truly wish they’d been able to maintain the façade that they built when I was still in Jr High/High School.
Anonymous
Asking these questions is a sign you’re going to do a good job!
Texas
I’m not a child of divorce and I am not divorced, but I am a step-parent. I see my step-daughter struggle with her parents’ failures to communicate clearly with her about where she is going to be when and what is going to happen when. For example, the parents may trade weekends, but she doesn’t find out until Friday at 6pm when her dad picks her up and she is confused why she is going with Dad this weekend. I imagine if I were your young kids getting this news, I would want to be told what happens next in a very simple way: Mom and the kids are going to continue living in the house, Dad is moving into a new apartment next week where you both will have your own rooms that you can decorate, you will continue going to the same school, you will see Mom and Dad regularly.
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I hope the other side of this part of your life is easier and you and your children and your to-be-ex all thrive.
Anon for this
Yes to this. I commented below re logistics. Have two sets of basics at both houses but obviously favorites can travel back and forth. Keep them updated on schedules and keep a basic, up to date calendar visible to them. This will only get more important as they get older and have more activities.
Anon for this
My parents divorced when my sibling and I were the same age(me 8, them 6). I have a few thoughts on short term and long term advice.
– it was very out of the blue for me, family meeting – that was fine. I do remember it, thirty years later. My parents talked calmly and gently and explained they didn’t love each other anymore. My mom moved out.
– I remember picking up on a lot of financial stress. If you foresee that being an issue, talk it through and keep talking. I don’t think my parents knew how much I worried about money (and I to this day don’t know if that worry was warranted).
-a lot of the kids literature/resources when I was that age focused on parents fighting. My parents never fought. I also never thought it was my fault as many assumed (I guess?) I would. So consider finding books that match your situation (fighting vs not, moving away vs not) to avoid introducing ideas/fears that aren’t relevant. And address
– therapy for all! I wish my parents had made us do more.
– at that age (I was 8) the main impact it had on me was logistics. As a kid, I was in charge of keeping my school stuff straight and going back and forth (parents lived close and had joint custody every other week) and it was too much to expect of me, even though I was a good student, etc. so consider that.
-long term – as your kids get older, and especially as they start dating, talk to them in an age appropriate way about what happened. Talk to them about healthy relationships. Read the book “ the unexpected legacy of divorce”. One thing I realized as an adult is that because my parents didn’t fight, I never saw a couples fight resolved. So any time I fought with my boyfriends I thought it was over. Or I’d do silent treatment or just let resentment grow and blow up, etc. I didn’t have good models to replace the one that didn’t work.
Hugs to you. In the end it was the right thing for my parents and they both found much better matches, and I have good relationships with all of them. Your kids will be just fine.
Anonymous
Are your kids familiar with divorce/blended families? DH and I are still married, but my parents are divorced and DH is the son of his dad’s second marriage. He’s an only child but also, my kids have aunts and uncles on that site. My daughter’s BFF is the daughter of a second marriage as well, so she has two older step sisters.
My 5 year old once asked when we were getting divorced so that she could get a new room.
I think all the advice above is excellent, but would just add thinking a bit before breaking the news about what your kids may or may not yet know about “divorce” and explain everything accordingly. The first question one of my kids would surely ask is when they are getting a new brother/sister.
joan wilder
My sister and I were also those ages when our parents divorced. I have a very blurry memory of being told (I was the 6 year old) and I recall being perky and matter of fact about it. But I also have memories from before the divorce of my mom being very angry and yelling at my dad and me being upset and scared about that and hiding. So I think 6 year old me welcomed it. Our reactions to it then, and in the coming years, centered around our personal receptivity to change. It may be harder if your kids struggle with change, as one of us did. My parents were amicable, shared custody in the same town, and we all came out ok. The biggest change for us was my mom needing to go back to work from being a SAHM, which was in a lot of ways, a bigger adjustment. We’re both decades past it now, and my sister and I agree, despite our very different views on each of our parents, that they did the right thing, and we were healthier for them each finding happiness later on (my dad by remarrying with a wonderful woman who makes him happy, and my mom for the independence she probably always wished for but never felt was an option when she was making life decisions in her 20s).
Anon
Child of divorce. I was about 11 my brother 13. Late 20s now. Our parents fought for years before separating. For background: my mom was the breadwinner, my dad was a stay at home dad. My dad kept the house and we lived with him full time. No custody agreement that I know of. My mom moved to an apartment about 45 minutes away, we stayed with her about every other weekend, split the holidays, and spend a couple weeks over summer breaks. The animosity was palatable for a long time, and the tension between them is still traumatic for me to experience.
Be prepared for behavioral and emotional changes, even if they seem to take things in stride at first – mixed with middle school and puberty I had a bad time. Really until junior year of high school I was a mess and would have benefited from intense therapy.
Advice I wish my parents had had:
– Keep the children out of your disagreements and issues. Meaning: venting about each other to the kids and getting into tense discussions/arguments in their presence if at all avoidable.
– When they get older a they will start having preferences about where they spend their time, who they celebrate certain holidays with, and things they do with each parent. Let them spend time/celebrate holidays the way they prefer without passing judgement or guilt tripping. My dad will still get pouty (asks why I don’t want to spend christmas/thanksgiving with him, why I don’t want to do xyz activity with him etc but will with my mom) if he feels like I’m not spending enough time with him compared to my mom. That makes me want to spend even less time with him.
– Don’t tell them not to tell anyone or talk about their home life. My parents did this. Divorce isn’t shameful and talking about my home life with a third part would have helped me so much with processing the situation.
– Include children in building a new home for yourself. If they’ll have their own rooms let them help decorate. Let them keep clothes, books, toys. Start a new holiday or ‘just for fun’ tradition together.
– If they’ll be travelling between homes, try not to give the impression that the pick up/drop off/transportation process between the two is a burden or inconvenience. I can count on 2 fingers the number of times my dad picked me up or dropped me off at my moms. She did all of the driving to come get me on a saturday morning and to drop me off on sunday afternoons for my weekends with her. A 45 minute drive each way. She never made it into a problem or complained in all those years. The two (2!!) times my dad had to he was grumpy, complained and was impatient.
There’s still only been 1 or 2 conversations that I’ve had where I’ve talked about the divorce with in any serious kind of way.
Anon
Sending you love. This is the hard part! I split with my ex when kid was 2.5, so not much advice on the telling part — we read a couple of books about kids having two homes and then kind of just told her and she clearly didn’t understand but wasn’t outwardly upset or anything, just maybe a bit confused once I actually moved out. Within a week she figured out that she has two homes now permanently and has been fine since then. Now at 6 she asks a lot of questions about it but has no memory of things being different and is overall a happy and well adjusted kid. I have a new partner whom she adores and she keeps telling us that we should get married.
I will second what everyone else said and add some general advice of my own on the same theme. Never ever say anything negative about your ex to or in front of the kids, don’t let anyone else do so either, communicate with the ex outside the hearing of the children if you cannot be friendly (we mostly use email and text), be friendly to ex when children can see/hear you (even if you are faking!), be clear to the child about logistical things like where they will be/school etc, clearly communicate to kids that you and ex discuss decisions and are on the same page with lots of we statements to show you are still a parenting team (“You want swimming lessons? I’ll talk to your dad.” “Your dad and I discussed and we thinking swimming lessons are a great idea. We are looking for a place and we’ll let you know when we set something up.”). Ex and I alternate Christmas/Thanksgiving and we have a tradition that the “other” parent comes over on Christmas morning when kid opens Santa presents. We also “cohost” the birthday party and are both present, along with both sets of grandparents.
Three years post divorce I am in the happiest place in my life, and my kid is happy and well adjusted. Hoping for the same for you!
Anone
I’m sorry, no direct experience but I think you’ve gotten a lot of good advice. I will keep you and your family in my thoughts.
Anon
I saw a funny skit once, but I have no idea where, on what NOT to do. You might be able to find it on YouTube. It was part of a state bar event on family law issues. It’s meant to be humorous but at the same time I found it powerful to show what messages you don’t want to send. The idea is after you watch it, you phrase things in a way that would dispel the thoughts that were said out loud in the “what not to do” skit.
I’m not going to do it justice but it was something like this – “so, we really shouldn’t have had children. We had a fun marriage until we had to try to parent together. You two were such hellions that we stopped loving each other. Your bad behavior is why we are getting divorced. Neither of us want to be in charge of you so we are still fighting over which one of us is stuck with you on school nights and which one of us is stuck with you on the weekend. Your activities cost so much money it’s going to be so hard to afford two households. You guys also eat way too much making our grocery bill astronomical. That’s why your mother has to work.”
So, a takeaway would be, when talking about parenting plans, if there is any disagreement they overhear, make sure they know it is because you BOTH want the same time with them as opposed to neither of you wanting the time with them. If they hear you discussing finances, it is about the expenses of life generally, not their expenses. Never let them hear the fight over who is going to pay for the dance lessons. You get the picture.
Elegant Giraffe
My parents did an awful job managing the divorce but I remember their delivery of the news as thoughtful and kind. We were 6 and 8. They sat us down on a weekend afternoon, told us clearly, were the kindest I had ever seen to each other, and then my dad promptly left the house. My mom had arranged for the three of us (mom, sister, me) to meet some family friends for a low key dinner that evening at somewhere we’d never been before – so no existing memories of that restaurant to deal with. I also vaguely remember later realizing that the parents of all my friends also knew which was helpful in some way (maybe I didn’t have to explain it all to my friends?). Also neither my sister nor I were surprised by the news that afternoon and in fact felt relief along with the sadness.
Anonymous
Any recommendations for a multivitamin that’s easy on the stomach? Number 1 criteria is that it not cause stomach upset. After that I’d want something with some iron (though it need not have tons of iron or be an iron only supplement; and if it’s impossible to get iron without stomach issues then I’d skip the iron) and also something that’s a major brand available at pharmacies/Target etc; I always see random reality tv people advertising vitamins on social media and it’s brands I’ve never heard of and someone I don’t trust those as much as I’d trust a brand that’s been around for decades.
Anonymous
When I was pregnant the only multivitamin with iron I could take without stomach upset was the Flinstones chewable. It stained my teeth, though.
divorce
In general, it is best to take iron separately, with your doctor following/advising on dosing. They purposefully remove iron from most MVI because you shouldn’t just take it without advice and monitoring when you are an adult. The most gentle on the stomach with less constipation I have found is VitronC. Then just get an easy MVI chewable for the rest or whatever is reasonably priced at COSTCO if you can swallow those monster pills.
Anonymous
They removed iron from most multivitamins to prevent people, especially children, from overdosing.
Anon
Rainbow Light prenatal one uses a different form of iron that is supposed to be more digestable – maybe look into that.
Anon
Thorne Basics 2 a day is gentlest for me (annoyingly, since they’re so expensive). Proferrin heme iron is the only iron that doesn’t bother my stomach. My doctor didn’t want me getting iron (a) totally unsupervised (b) from a multi.
For a Target/Walgreens brand, maybe try Garden of Life? They supposedly try to use the forms that we’d normally be getting from food, instead of the cheaper synthetics that can be harder on the stomach. So if you take them with food, the idea is that it goes along with and digests with the meal a bit better (I don’t know if this really works though, since I have mast cell issues and need hypoallergenic formulations rather than “full of real, healthy natural foods that will make you break out in hives” formulations personally!).
Essential+in+Texas
Smartypants…,it’s the only vitamin I have ever been able to take
Anonymous
OP here. Not when he’s been tested and also not while I’ve got my period and also not when the last time we had s*x makes it literally impossible. Biology is tough but this would be a true scientific miracle.
Anonymous
Waah. There was a Sue Sartor dress that I had really, really wanted and always had an excuse (when I lose weight! when it’s not so cold out! when it’s not so hot out! when I just didn’t get my rotors replaced on the car!). And now it’s sold out. Waah. TGIF at least!
Anon
Think of all the money you saved! Yay! (Positive Friday for the win.)
Anonymous
Same here! The Sue Sartor dress I was coveting was sold out when I finally went to buy it. Le sigh. I consoled myself by buying something from Poupette St. Barth instead, but I still want the Sue Sartor. And now we are deciding whether to cancel our vacation (thanks, Florida covidiots) and I may never get to wear it.