Thursday’s Workwear Report: Plaid Square Neck Sheath Dress

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I am absolutely loving this dark emerald sheath dress from Ann Taylor, in part because it doesn’t seem like an Ann Taylor dress at all. It’s more like the kind of thing I’d find at ModCloth or Unique Vintage and then ponder the quality of, and whether it would be too tight or not pretty or not flattering, and so on, but it’s from Ann Taylor, so those things aren’t really in question. You pretty much know what you’re going to get, quality-wise, at Ann Taylor. I think it’s a really cute dress, and it’s different and cool. I wish it had pockets (and who doesn’t?), but it’s machine washable, so it has that going for it. Note that it also comes in black. The dress is available in regular (0–18), petite (00–14), and tall (0–18) sizes and is $129–$139. Of course, with Ann Taylor, things are often 40% off, so keep an eye out for sales. Plaid Square Neck Sheath Dress

Amazon has a plus-size option.

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Comments

  1. Anonymous :

    I’ve decided to leave co-workers I love working with but so-so work for a challenging job I really want at a bigger firm. It’s going to come as a big surprise to my co-workers. When they ask why I’m leaving, is it offensive to say the opportunity is too good to pass up? Or is it better to say I really want to change practice areas?

    • “I’ve loved working here with you all, but I think it’s time for me to take on a bit of a professional challenge by moving. It was a tough decision, but I’m really excited about it.”

      This is almost exactly the script I had to repeat over and over when I left a similar situation 2 weeks ago. Repeat ad nauseum, and be sincere but enthusiastic for the new role: your excitement will be contagious, and co-workers you love will show that love back by being just as excited as you are. They won’t take it personally (and if they do, that’s on them).

    • I’ve done this exact thing before. Emphasize practice areas and that it’s a unique/good opportunity. They can connect the dots to it being too good to pass up. Say what Pompom suggests. If they’re reasonable people, they’ll understand. I still have a great relationship with the people at my former firm. They understand that people have interests and passions and want to follow them, and at the end of the day, it’s business not personal.

    • I honestly don’t think your coworkers are going to be offended by either of those. People leave jobs. It happens a lot. Nobody’s going to take it personally.

  2. A bird in the hand... :

    I need some career advice, and hope this isn’t too vague to make sense!
    I learned that a position will be opening up early next year at Dream Company where I used to work. Former Boss told me I’d be a perfect fit since I’ve worked at DC previously (and loved it, got rave employee reviews, only left because I stagnated because it’s the type of place people stay forever) and they need the experience I’ve gained since then.
    Earlier this week, I saw another job posted at DC. It’s not the one Former Boss told me about (from what I can tell this posting was the result of an unexpected departure), but it’s one I think I could enjoy and be good at. The difference is that this job is a stretch for me skill-wise, and the other would be a perfect fit. However, I think that long term, I’d be happier doing the job in this posting than I would be doing the job Former Boss originally told me about.
    I’d want to use Former Boss as a reference either way, since her word carries a lot of weight. Is it weird if I ask her to be a reference for this job, even though she told me about the other job coming up? Also, will it hurt my chances at Perfect Fit job if I apply for Current Posting and don’t get it?

    • Can you ask your Former Boss for her advice on which position would be best for you based on what you say here? Then Former Boss would feel like they contributed to your decision and will have more buy-in for the rec. And they know the company better, so will be able to give pretty solid advice either way.

    • Call up former boss and express interest in considering both. Get her behind you on both applications. It’s totally normal to be considered for a couple of different roles.

      • Wanderlust :

        I think you should apply for the posted position. You mentioned the original position will be opening up early next year, but it may not be a sure thing – company circumstances may change, etc.

  3. Great pick Kat! Especially love the neckline and the color.

    • Legally Brunette :

      I love this dress as well. I would just need to see how far the neckline went — I find the square neck very flattering but it also exposes a lot as well, on some dresses at least.

      • I had the same thought. During their next 40% off sale, I’m going to order it and find out. Hopefully, it’s not too low, especially since I’ve been looking for some new dresses that have interesting neck lines. I’ve realized that 90% of my work dresses are a crew neck, and I want to get away from that.

      • It looks like it could easily slide down the shoulders unless you’ve got a very square set of shoulders

    • I just got this dress in the mail yesterday from the 40% off sale over the weekend. I should have sized down. The neckline wasn’t too low (and I’m 30-DD) even in a size too big. The material was fairly thick and I liked the pattern, although the waist was a little high. I guess I have to wait for it to go back on sale so as to order the smaller size.

      • I’m surprised you can’t do an exchange and get the sale price on the right size. Call and ask if they will do that for you.

    • Drool. I love this!

    • It is gorgeous and makes my 7 month pregnant hormonal self sad that I can’t wear “normal” clothes, boo hoo

    • +1!

    • I haven’t bought an AT dress in years but I LOVE this so I just went ahead and bought it. Will be interested to see how it fits and the quality.

  4. Santa Barbara to Monterey :

    Hi, this is a long shot, but does anyone know where I could find out about options to boat (as a passenger) from Santa Barbara to Monterey? With the coastal highway still out, I wanted to see if there is a more fun wayto get to Big Sur than driving inland for 5 hours. Don’t care if it’s a ferry, sailboat or cruise…

    • Anonymous :

      The coastal highway reopened in July.

    • Anonymous :

      Are you sure it’s still out? I haven’t driven it lately but I live in the Bay Area and it was major news a couple months ago that it reopened.

    • Take the Amtrak! It’s super-scenic and you can drink on the DL in the all-windows car. It’s super-fun! It definitely leaves right from Santa Barbara! I don’t know if it goes exactly to Monterey, but you can get to San Jose and then rent a car there (Monterey is about an hour South). Swears–the train is so beautiful, esp. by SLO.

      • I did that as a kid and the train had an observation car and we saw whales. It was so cool!

      • Horse Crazy :

        I agree that Amtrak is wonderful, but just a heads-up that Monterey is more like 2 hours south of San Jose these days.
        Signed, I live in Santa Cruz and drive in this awful traffic every day.

      • Santa Barbarian :

        Agree that Amtrak is a great way to go. You can get off in Salinas, then it’s an easy 20-minute drive/uber/taxi over to Monterey.
        Also, yes, Highway 1 is open again.

    • I drove it mid-August. It’s open!

  5. Vicarious decorating/shopping needed! I need a desk for my home office. I work from home 95% of the time, so I need room for two monitors and somewhere to hid a laptop dock. The biggest hitch seems to be that I want to “float” the desk in the middle of the room, so the backside needs to be finished or have a way to hide all the cords. Extra points for something not boring since it is the center point of the room. Budget under $1500 preferably.

    • Anonymous :

      I bought an adjustable Uplift standing desk and have been satisfied. It has an option for a “privacy panel” that I assume would cover your wires. It’s maybe a little boring looking though…

    • https://theartifox.com – depending on your style this might be an option. It is adaptable so you can pick which ad ons you want.

    • I recently bought a desk from Room & Board that has outlets on the sides. So only one plug for the desk and most other things can be plugged into the desk itself eliminating running multiple cords along the floor.

  6. Has anyone sold clothes on poshmark? Was it worthwhile if you’re just trying to get rid of a dozen items and aren’t into social media? I am trying to clear out some closet space and have a few items that are basically new with tags or barely worn. My understanding is people don’t find thredup worthwhile. Is this better?

    • I’ve sold a few things on Poshmark but a lot of the time stuff just sits. I find it has to be particular brands – for instance, my Madewell stuff sells well, but older Marc Jacobs clothing seems to just be out of style and not as in demand. The newer (by season) the better – like a blouse from this year or last year is more likely to sell. Put as many details as you can, particularly with the name of the item the company uses (i.e. Madewell Central Shirt) or whatever.

    • Anonymous :

      ThredUp is terrible, they’ll pay you pennies for brand new items. I didn’t have luck with Poshmark either. I listed new with tags Joe’s Jeans for $50 and then dropped the price to $40 and then $30 with no luck. I talked to a few friends who have done it and it seems like you have to put a lot effort into the social media aspects of it to get your listings in front of people’s eyes.

    • If you itemize your taxes you’re better off donating to goodwill or disabled veterans and taking the full it’s deductible deduction on turbo tax.

    • KateMiddletown :

      Some people have also had luck with a listing here to any ‘r3tt3s that might want them. (I have two cute pairs of heels from someone here a few seasons back!)

    • Lately I’ve just been posting my stuff as “lots” in my local buy nothing group on Facebook and someone comes and gets it in an hour. It’s so much easier than any of the other hassle options. I just group “like” things together.

    • I’ve sold maybe 30 pieces on Poshmark – bags, shoes and plus size clothes. Honestly the best way I get things to move is to price it really low. I’m not looking to get rich or even make back what I spent on the item so I don’t mind posting things at a deep discount.

      If you’ve got stuff that is new with tags, definitely post “NWT” in your title and description of your item – that stuff moves faster for me.

      • Thanks everyone. JTM, do you do any social media outreach or just price low and that’s it? I’m fine with that, but just don’t want to leave stuff in limbo for too long.

        Scarlett, for the buy nothing group – its FB only? I’m not on FB and generally don’t want to deal with people, if i can help it, but wonder if there is some other way to get rid of stuff quickly. I’m in an apartment building so can’t exactly put things out on the curb and post on CL, and even just donating tends to take a while because I have to take it over myself and it’s heavy and hard to coordinate without a car.

        • Yes, it’s only on Facebook as far as I know, but if you’re on Nextdoor, that’s another option but it probably requires more messaging. Facebook is easy because people post “interested” and you DM in order of response. Craigslist can work too, but that’s gotten a little less reliable. I don’t have a place to leave stuff either, so I just text coordinate when the person is coming and the interaction is literallly seconds “here you go. Thanks” so it’s minimal dealing with people.

          • Thanks! I think I am just becoming way too socially awkward in my old age.

  7. Update: Neogiating :

    A few days ago I posted asking for what I should have on my ‘ask’ list prior to accepting an offer. I wanted to give everyone an update, just as a data point.

    When the ‘official’ offer came through, my soon to be boss was apologetic that there were perks that he wouldn’t be able to offer, e.g., the vacation amount was set and for now I will be in a cubicle rather than an office. He wanted to be able to say ‘yes’ to something I wanted as I was his candidate of choice. Understanding the dynamic here, I went with asking to have flexibility in stop/start times which he was happy to say yes to. I also added that I hoped we could discuss some possible remote work in the future but wanted to get my feet under me first. He responded positively and just overall was happy that I was accepting.

    I realize that this is different situation than the one last week (which truly sucked) – in this case, I had a boss who wanted to be able to say yes to my requests. Adding to this, I am essentially making a lateral move pay and seniority wise, but am moving specifically for work life balance. I also have a unique set of experiences and skills that make me highly qualified and have been working hand in hand with my new employer for the past 4 years.

    • Thanks for taking the time to update. It is helpful to hear the stories of others as we navigate our own matters. Your new position sounds like a win, doing the same work within reasonable hours. Enjoy!

    • Sounds like a good outcome. Good luck at the new job!

  8. Catcalling :

    I experience cat calling/street harassment/sexual jokes/unwanted sexual texts on a daily or near-daily basis. I commented this to a guy I’m seeing last night, and even showed him some texts, and he was blown away. He even apologized on behalf of men.

    It was prompted when the pizza guy hit on me last night, saying “nice dress. You can rock the polka dots. Not everyone can, but you can with that body.” I went upstairs with the pizza and went on a rant to my date.

    This morning, as I walked into my work, a random guy called out at me. I had my arms full of an Amazon package to return, my lunch box, and a bag with half and half. “Hey, sweetie, good morning. I’m talking to you! Have a good day! Sweetie!” with increasingly frantic tone of voice as I ignored him. I don’t care if you’re talking to me. I used to live in the South, where pleasantries are common. This is in the Northeast, in a big city, where everyone ignores you as a matter of course.

    Yesterday, a repair man needed the service elevator sent down. I saw the email requesting it and decided to do it as our admin, who usually takes care of it, was on vacation. I couldn’t figure out how to send it down without being physically in it. As the repair man got in, he made a gross comment about how nice I took a ride, and he gives free rides after work, and am I interested in that.

    I’m sure I could go on and on. I often have men text me suggestive comments even when I know they’re in a relationship.

    Is this really surprising to men? I’m shocked my date was so shocked!

    • Anonymous :

      Honestly, I’m shocked by these. I don’t know the difference. Maybe it’s a southern thing? I live in Houston and NEVER get comments like this. Never ever.

      • +1 it’s a maybe once a YEAR thing in my experience so maybe a strangely aggressive/forward culture in your neighborhood? :(

        • Karma: a man just gestured at my reflection and said “look at that pretty lady in the window!”

          • Anonymous :

            Makes me wonder if I’ll notice more of this nonsense just because we talked about it.

    • Anonymous :

      I’m shocked! I never get comments like this.

    • Anonymous :

      I’m not surprised by the catcalling or gross comments from strangers. But who are these people who are texting you and why haven’t you blocked them? Why do they have your number?

      • Typically acquaintances from networking events, conferences, etc. Believe me, they get blocked! I also get frequent messages from people I’m not connected with, but with whom I have many friends in common, on social media.

        Yesterday: hi
        few hours later: hi gorgeous (because my lack of response to the first hi was unclear)
        me: How’s your girlfriend?

        This from a man I’ve met once or twice. I have privacy settings on my social media. My profile is private, and even among my friends, I make lists such that acquaintances I meet through networking cannot see my posts or photos. They can, however, send me messages, and I can see their profile and all their pics of date night with their girlfriend (as in this man’s case). Gross! I blocked him, but there’s no way to preemptively stop messages and texts. I can’t assume every man I meet is gross.

        • It sounds like your facebook friends are kind of sketchy then? I can’t imagine any of my facebook friends reaching out to my other facebook friends with such comments.

          If I were you I would stop giving my cell phone number out to random people you meet at conferences. Give them your office number if it’s a networking thing.

          • Men you meet at conferences — so presumably other professionals — are texting you inappropriate things? That’s super weird.

          • It happens. Overnight conferences in hotels, in particular. The number of men who want to have affairs when they’re away from their wives on business or who think it’s okay to flirt with women who are being nice to them because they’re professionals is staggering.

          • But why give out your cell?

          • Male colleagues should be able to manage having my cell without texting me inappropriate things.

            In my industry, we have at minimum an annual overnight conference. We have group dinners where we sign up by topic or cuisine, and we exchange cells.

            My cell isn’t on my current business card, but its been on previous ones. I do not find any of this weird.

          • You’re reading way too much into this- giving out a cell number is neither a n nefarious plot by women to entice men to hit on them or some naive gesture akin to wearing a meat suit in a lion den. Easy example: you’re at an out of town, muli-day conference. You meet people. You decide you want to meet up later in the conference to get dinner, discuss something, whatever.

            The last disgusting man who hit on me instead of his wife got my cell number because we were out of town, on a panel together, and needed to coordinate our presentation. The conference also had lots of social events, so people were coordinating dinners and things like that. Of all the people I gave my cell number to, only one hit on me. Gee, what do you think the proximate cause is there?

            Why don’t you just trust women and blame bad men for their poor behavior, instead of searching for a way to blame women for men’s poor behavior?

        • Why does someone you’ve met once or twice have your phone number for texting?

          • Um, because people give out their phone numbers to people they meet and think they might want to talk to again? Why is this confusing to you? Where did we lose you?

          • A lot of people put their cell on their business card. This is one of the reasons I don’t do that.

            And this is another one of those things that good men can’t understand – I once tried to explain this to a male partner who suggested I should put my personal cell phone number on my cards. He flat out didn’t believe that stuff like this happens.

          • Anonymous :

            I don’t put my cell phone number on my business card. Full stop. I’ve made my position on this clear to my firm, and as a result, I don’t get sketchy texts from business associates. There’s the ideal – “men should stop doing this” – and there’s the practical – “No one will watch out for me the way I can.”

      • Yes, this. I get lots of catcalls but I don’t get inappropriate texts.

    • God men are gross. I’m sorry you have to deal with that so frequently. Too bad most “good guys” will never stand up against it in any real way.

    • Some of these comments (and the texts!) are terrible, but if someone says good morning and hi sweetie to me, I will simply respond by saying good morning. I think it’s pretty extreme to just keep walking and saying nothing.

      • Senior Attorney :

        No. “Hi, Sweetie” does not get you a response from me. This kind of behavior should not be reinforced!

        • +millions. I am not any stranger’s sweetie. Nobody is entitled to my attention or time.

          • It bothers me even more when women do it. I was buying glasses the other week and the optician repeatedly referred to me as sweetie. She looked late fifties/early sixties. I am 29 and look my age. It really irritated me and I guarantee she thought nothing of it.

      • + 1 same. I don’t love the word sweetie but I also don’t think it merits getting in a huff and not responding.

    • I used to get similar comments from the security guard and valets across the street from my work (it was like walking a gauntlet every day) and part of me was like, dude, I’m 45 and at least 30 lbs overweight. But then i thought, maybe that’s why they think they can get away with it. They think I will be flattered. Or maybe the fact that they were all doing it down one long block gave them the guts to do it in a sort of mob mentality.

      I am sorry this is happening to you. I never took it as a compliment (even through the security guard regularly reminded me that he was complimenting me), I took it as a message – we can say these things to you and you can’t do anything about it.

      I am relieved to have moved buildings. In hindsight I wish I had figured out who these guys worked for and had reported it to their management. Is that an option for you?

      • A neighbor of mine used to frequently complain about catcalls on the street near our DC apartment. I was baffled because I didn’t know what she was talking about and clearly we were walking the same neighborhood streets to go about our daily lives. She dressed normally (business casual or casual – nothing that a man could say was provocative), and she was plus size. I’m not plus size and was regularly wearing more “buttoned-up” business attire like AIMS below describes. The men thought they could say whatever they wanted to her and never said a peep to me.

        • Yeah, I think some of it is this. I am on the curvier side and I get all kinds of terrible comments from men–in person, on dating apps, in professional settings. My slimmer friends do not. When I call men out for it, their response is often to tell me that, actually, I’m too fat for them. Seriously. This happens regularly.

    • I had this conversation with my boyfriend about a month ago. He was SHOCKED that this happens and that he has never known about it/seen it/noticed it. I pulled up a few Youtube videos (there’s a some where people watch their loved ones walking down the street in complete shock). He had no idea how often it happens. I have changed what I wear – fewer heels, shorter hair, less makeup – and rarely make eye contact with passerbys now (I live in the Midwest, where everyone says “hello” as you walk down the street, so this is weird here). Not saying that to start a fight…I STRONGLY believe women shouldn’t have to change anything about their appearance or behavior in order to avoid street harassment but made the personal decision that I would rather decrease it than feel unsafe on a regular basis. But it is amazing how many men have no idea this happens OR that it bothers women.

    • Do you ever shut these men down? I understand if you don’t feel comfortable doing that, but it might help.

      • I do. I don’t think it helps in the sense that any of them will stop doing it. But it helps in that I feel less outraged and helpless.

        “Hi Sweetie!”
        “I am definitely not your sweetie and never will be, f*ck off.”

        I just feel better venting the outrage at the proper target than internalizing it.

      • I posted below about reporting these guys – but I would not confront someone in person. I’ve been physically threatened too many times. These men have already demonstrated a willingness to overstep personal boundaries, I would expect that they might escalate to violence if you push back. Don’t engage, move on like you don’t hear them.

        Honestly this is why I’ve seriously considered getting a concealed carry license. I won’t do it, I know I would be more in danger with a weapon, but stuff like this makes it very tempting.

        • Never too many shoes... :

          Maybe it is just my Canadian naivete shining through, but carrying a concealed weapon in relation to this seems extreme.

          • It is your Canadian naivete. Women in the U.S. get killed, sometimes in the open in public, for rejecting a stranger’s advance. Being armed can save your life. The story of this poor girl made me feel ill. She was shot in the face for telling a guy not to dance on her in a parade, in the middle of the day: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3777279/Tiarah-Poyau-allegedly-killed-J-Ouvert-telling-man-stop-grinding-her.html

          • I agree with you. I’m from Texas. I would not point a gun at someone for catcalling me.

        • I carry mace, which doesn’t require any permit in my state. I’ve been followed by men before and felt extremely uncomfortable. I’ve never used it, but it makes me feel more safe (although disturbing I feel unsafe walking to and from work while going about my day).

    • I have never gotten comments like this. I will occasionally get a “hey beautiful” comment from a homeless person on the street asking for money but that’s literally it. I am also in a large NE city.

    • Ugh, so sorry to hear this is happening. I’ve never got the direct approach via text or from a professional colleague/contact (thankfully!) but I have been stopped by the police before under the guise of a ‘routine search’ which turned out to be an excuse to ask me out on a date.

      While I do buy it to a point that some people think they are being complimentary, if that is the case, then their internal dialogue has to change from ‘weird, I thought she’d be grateful people think she’s hot’ to ‘maybe this is making her feel uncomfortable and I shouldn’t do it’.

      • Stopped by police and asked out? That’s frightening. No one likes to be stopped by police. Incredible he thinks that would be conducive to setting up a date. It has likely worked before, which is sad and gross.

        • pugsnbourbon :

          OH HELL NO to the cop asking you out. I’d have probably been too flustered in the moment but I hope you got that asshole’s badge number, and then his job.

      • I don’t buy it anyone thinks they’re being complimentary. (I’ve received genuine compliments from strangers too; I can tell the difference!) Maybe the guy who asked you out on a date genuinely wanted to date you (although I can’t even wrap my head around how messed up it is to ask someone out on a date while in uniform and ARMED). It’s about putting women in their place and reminding them that they exist to please men. “Aren’t you flattered that you successfully pleased a man today?” No.

        • I’m the 45 year old 30lb overweight commenter from above.

          “Aren’t you flattered that you successfully pleased a man today?” is spot-on.

          No, I’m not. I don’t even want to please my husband every day!

        • That’s exactly how it feels. It absolutely does not feel like a genuine compliment and only serves to remind us that the only thing protecting us from unwanted s*xual intercourse is “civility”.

    • I’m in NYC. I used to experience this more in “civilian dress.” Now that I wear suits to work most of the time, I experience it a lot less (I’m also not 25 anymore so maybe that’s part of it), but one phenomenon I noticed is if I wear a tank top with a suit and leave the jacket at my desk to go to lunch, I am likely to encounter a comment. Jacket, not so much. Also, non-tank tops, not so much. It’s like the jacket intimidates but tank top somehow makes it ok? It’s f-ed up.
      I’ve been lucky insofar as my actual workplace that most men are exceedingly respectful. I did have some leering issues with one or two security people but I refused to be polite about it and they took the hint after a while. This is all obviously unacceptable. But I have to say that sometimes I do think that these creeps try to find their victims by looking for younger women or ones who are very polite, etc. I don’t try to be cute about what I perceive as harassment and just call it out as unacceptable. On the street, I either ignore it or tell them to f – off, whichever seems more fitting at the time. I’m sorry you’re dealing with it so much, OP.

      • Is it Friday yet? :

        I’ve noticed the same – in work clothes, I get left alone a lot more than if I’m in, say, workout clothes or more casual attire. I probably look older and more intimidating in work clothes? And I ignore, or give a dirty look.

        • True in my experience as well. I walk to the gym in work clothes- no comments. I leave the gym in workout clothes, ALL the comments.

          • Yep. And this happened even when I was obviously pregnant. Like hi, clearly, not in the market but that’s not really what this is about, right? Going home from prenatal yoga was honestly the most harassment that I have consistently experienced in the past few years.

          • Yes! One of my worst street harassment incidents was when I was six months pregnant. And some guy followed me through a parking lot in broad daylight shouting gross questions about whether or not I was going to “have a good time” later as I waddled quickly to my car. So gross.

          • BeenThatGuy :

            I had a similar incident when I was 7 months pregnant. The man said, “I’m really good with pregnant women…my wife was pregnant 3 times”.

      • My experience has been the opposite. I have been followed and verbally harassed by homeless men several times in work clothes (example: “Are you a lady cop? You are so pretty and you are wearing high heels. You must be a lady cop.”), but never in normal clothes.

    • This happens to me a lot as well (minus the texts – block those m*therf*ckers!) and yes, men really are surprised by it. I posted something about one incident on Facebook, and while all my female friends’ responses were “Oh yeah, I know what you’re talking about, I’m sorry, try headphones”, I had a male friend ask me at an event shortly thereafter, “I was really shocked by what you posted, does that happen often?” To which I and every woman in earshot replied “EVERY. DAMN. DAY.” I think men understand logically that this happens (from movies, TV, etc.) but don’t connect that with the women in their lives and the frequency with which we deal with it.

      • This! Men are aware it happens, but they don’t realize just how pervasive and frequent it is.

      • On a related note, my husband does not believe that gender bias exists in the modern workplace.

        • pugsnbourbon :

          #dealbreaker

        • Kindly tell him to f*ck right off.

        • I am honestly not trying to put you down, and I genuinely am curious. How can you be married to someone like this?

          • Anon at 11:37 :

            He genuinely doesn’t think it’s an issue in most ordinary workplaces in this day and age, just in entertainment and politics and other nontraditional work environments he hears about in the news. He believes this because he doesn’t observe it happening in his workplace. I can’t figure out whether it’s because he’s blind to it or because the culture of his organization doesn’t tolerate it. Probably some of both. He is really no different from the men who are surprised to learn that their wives or coworkers are subject to harassment on the street–these guys don’t do it so they are puzzled by the idea that other guys would.

          • Right, but he’s heard it from you enough by now that he should believe that it happens, yes?

            I can give guys a pass for thinking it’s a huge issue if they’ve never personally observed it but once it’s pointed out to them, I won’t give them a pass for containing to “not believe it” just because they don’t see it with their own eyes.

            I’ve never been to China. It was understandable of me not to know China existed for a while–when I was a little kid. I know China exists now. It is not reasonable of me to pretend China doesn’t exist.

        • Anonymous :

          My male boss told me, in all seriousness, that sexual harassment doesn’t really happen outside of big cities. I have wanted to quit every day since then.

    • Well I don’t get texts because the only people who contact me are friends but I do get catcalled a lot and just talked to in a certain way that has surprised the men I know – coworkers, friends, and my husband. Like you, I was surprised that they were surprised in part because this is so commonplace for me and in part because I thought there was awareness that this isn’t just something that happens at night when you are dressed “a certain way.” My (all male) coworkers even witnessed it once coming back from lunch when I was separated from our group and couldn’t believe “it happens just like that.” YUP. Just like that.

      Their reactions: “But you were just walking to the escalator!” “It’s lunchtime!” “You are obviously going to work!” “You weren’t even talking to him!” and “You wear a wedding ring!” YUP.

    • You have my commizeration, as it happen’s to me alot — not as much as it used to — but still alot, on the streets of NYC, no less. When I was just out of college, it was a foregone conclusion that I would be verbally propositioned at least 2x a day, and men in close spaces (elevator’s, on line at Starbucks) would rub up against me or worse, grab my tuchus. So the HIVE knows that this is a probelem nationwide, and as dad told me, even worse overseas. That is why we have the me too movement — to try and get men to put their you know what’s back into their pants and reserve it for their wives and steady girlfreinds. FOOEY on men that wont. They think they are some sort of Cazenova’s or someting, if they are sucessful in getting a woman to respond — trust me, we won’t, but it does NOT stop them from trying. Even boyfreinds are seedy. Look at the poor balerina in NYC whos boyfreind posted pictures of her haveing s-x with him. How awful is that? If men were neutered, they would be alot better for us, except they would NOT be abel to give us their sperm to have children. It’s a HOPSON’s Choice. DOUBEL FOOEY!

    • I got that a lot when I was in my mid-twenties. Ten years and ten pounds later, it’s much more rare, for which I am very thankful.

    • To answer your question, from my extremely unscientific study of the world there are two types of men: those who think women exist for their pleasure and those who have no idea that catcalling and harassment exist.

      I remember once explaining to my husband once that men will find ways to expose *themselves* to women and he was BAFFLED. He could not wrap his mind around it. He comes from a part of the world where catcalling is pretty aggressive (he warned me about it when we went to his hometown the first time) but he couldnt fathom something even grosser.

      I think that catcalling is the white dress/blue dress of straight men. Some men think it is fine and some are like “huh, what, this makes no sense.”

      • The Hubs fails to comprehend why someone would catcall a woman. That said, I made him have a talk with his dad about why teaching The Kid to wolf whistle at people is inappropriate (item number 173 in the list of things that we have had to explain to family members). How my husband turned out as a feminist coming out of that family still baffles me, but I am appreciative.

        This is high on my list right now. Yesterday I got called “honey” and “baby” before 9:30 a.m., both times by lawyers that I deal with professionally (I told the guy who called me “baby” that he needs to call me “Miss Jackson” – he did not get it, but a couple people on the elevator did and laughed). Followed later in the morning by having to explain to my law partner that the fact that he has daughters does not mean that he gets a pass on calling me “young lady” or that it is acceptable to tell me to smile or “be happy”. I am not in the office to light up his day, I am here to practice law, make money and hopefully keep the firm from getting sued by people who fail to think about their words.

        • “I am not in the office to light up his day, I am here to practice law, make money and hopefully keep the firm from getting sued by people who fail to think about their words.”

          Truth.

          I am also stealing this language.

    • Yesterday a guy asked me for directions and I honestly didn’t know where to direct him, so said “sorry I don’t know.” He passed me and asked the next group of people who told him which way to go. He then came back to me and said “YOU #$#@, You knew exactly where to send me! You women just want to keep men down.” And kept screaming and swearing at me as I walked along not making eye contact. Busy street no one stopped to help me. I am pregnant btw so I can’t move that fast. Totally messed with my afternoon.

      Not at this level, but minor cat calling happens at least once or twice a week.

      • In the spring I was walking down the sidewalknear my office building in the financial district of my major city in the middle of the day when a man approached me, yelled “bitch”, hit me in the side of the head, and walked away. I was so shocked I couldn’t even react. Bystanders saw the exchange and didn’t say or do anything. It’s a mad world.

      • What a schmuck! This guy sounds like he has BIG issues with women. He is like Alan, my ex. Remind me not to date him!

    • I’m not shocked by the street harassment but I’m shocked by the harassment from people in a service provider/professional exchange. I would make (and have made) a HUGE stink about it. Silence is why these guys get away with it. Yes it sucks to put more time and energy into it but man it can be cathartic.

      Report the pizza delivery guy to the delivery company and write a review about it on yelp. Report the repair man to the repair company, the building, and your employer/office manager (to put more pressure on the building to find a different repair company). Those texts from guys you met at networking events? I’d seriously consider screenshotting and emailing them to their employer and the hosts of the conference (if it’s an invite-only sort of thing), though I suppose that depends on context. At a minimum I would respond, this message is inappropriate and unprofessional. I hate that women are told to respond with the cutesy, would your GF like to see this? Idgaf about your relationship, this is about your interaction with ME; the fact that I deserve to be treated with respect has nothing to do with your relationship status.

      • Agree to all of this.

        Do it to document it, and do it because every woman should document this every time. No one wants to be inundated with calls about a particularly bad employee, and it is the same men doing this over and over.

    • People will hate this but it’s something you’re doing – clothes, how you interact or carry yourself. Across the board people are telling you this isn’t happening to them in similar cities. I have no reason to believe that the rest of us are hideous and you’re a super model — likely you’re putting it out there somehow that you’re wanting to. Exspoken to.

      • NO. THIS IS NEVER AN APPROPRIATE RESPONSE. It is nothing to do with her and you should be ashamed of yourself for suggesting that. Also, where are these people “across the board” telling her it isn’t happening to them? Almost everyone here agrees that we experience it as well. You are the problem.

        • Check out all the early responders to this thread saying they’ve never experienced it. I guess they’re all hideous? Give me a break – it’s something about her. Same way girls go to frat parties, get falling down drunk, things happen and then it’s OMG how could no one have protected me??

          • More like OMG why are there predators lurking in every nook and cranny of our society just waiting to pounce on innocent people? The people we need protection FROM are the ones doing something wrong.

          • OP here- I’m plus size and don’t think I’m a model by any stretch of the imagination.

            I was wearing a formal three quarter length sleeved dress walking into my firm when I was harassed this AM. I was wearing a polka dot dress with a black blazer when I answered the door for pizza yesterday. If you read the original post, I was in my office having a meeting with 2 colleagues, working late, so we ordered pizza around 7 PM. Clothing is NEVER a reason or an excuse for harassment.

            I’v never been to a frat party. My college had no Greek life.

            But clearly you think someone who is assaulted or harassed was asking for it, right? Wow. Shame on you.

          • Wow.

          • Don’t feed the victim blaming tr0ll, you guys. Probably a man who has or would [email protected] someone.

          • Anonymous :

            Found the lurker troll- he’s back!

        • +1

      • t r o l l l l l l l

        don’t feed it.

        (illiterate t r o l l as well, because people are saying it happens to them all over the place, too)

      • I call BS. I’m in my 30s, work in a law office, and wear business formal clothing. I am overweight. I get catcalled frequently. People of all shapes, sizes, and appearances experience this. Victim blaming much?

        • Anonymous :

          +1. I am middle aged dressed in business suits with low heels and get harassed constantly in SF, Philly, Baltimore and NY. I was walking with three male co counsel and had someone drive by and scream comments about my rear. I think it’s because I look successful and some men don’t appreciate that.

      • Unbelievable.

        It happens to me and it happened to me in front of my male coworkers who were shocked because they didn’t believe it happened and pointed out all the things I was “doing” right. That’s because it’s not something you do; it’s something done to you. As the direct object of the sentence with a passive verb, how could it be something the women are doing… other than merely existing in their lives? It it something certain men do. There may be something about some women that make them their target, but that’s still the man doing it.

        GTFO with this kind of attitude.

      • Is it Friday yet? :

        You and your victim blaming are horrible.

        Anecdotally, I went to undergrad in the PNW, and law school in Manhattan. I noticed a huge difference in the level of unwanted comments – almost never in the PNW, all the time in NYC. I’m pretty sure there’s a distinct cultural difference between some major cities, so maybe some of the posters live in places that it’s less of a thing (although male entitlement is everywhere, I find it takes different forms).

        • I got tons of these comments in NYC, and get basically none in ATL (and never got them in the PNW).

          • Anon in ATL :

            THIS but also there is more of a “street culture” in NYC and DC where I’ve been and ATL is way more driving so more distance between people.

        • Agreed. So happy to live in PNW now after San Fran. Even homeless and construction workers don’t catcall here (and there are SO many of both). Don’t know what it is about the Bay Area but it is the worst. I remember taking the train home from first day of high school at 13 and being so freaking scared. My school was towards downtown and I lived in the Sunset. Walking down Market to the Muni felt like the walk of shame or something – just random people shouting about wanting to have s*x. I can’t believe how quickly we all got used to it (all the teenage girls at my school). And shame on my parents for not taking a half day to meet me at school that day. I don’t think they have any clue at all, still. It’s crazy. We’re objectified from the day we hit puberty and then chastised for being “bitchy” and “overreacting” to “compliments”, and that “now a days, people can’t say anything that won’t offend women”. Maybe the rest of society can try being more aware of what it’s like to live in it as a woman?

      • So I kind of understand what you’re saying. I definitely don’t think OP is intentionally doing something, and in no way do I think it’s her fault, but it does seem like there’s something that makes men think it’s in any way appropriate. But I’m one of those people who almost never get catcalled or harassed. I have a big bosom that I’m not afraid to show off, so honestly I’m surprised (but pleased) I don’t get more gross comments. Maybe I don’t notice? Maybe it’s the environment. Again, 100% not saying it’s her fault. Just wonder what the common factors are with women who receive unwanted attention frequently versus those who don’t.

        • Right– I have a friend who’s like OP. She gets the weirdest, creepiest come-ons, way more than I or anyone else I know do. I think it’s partly that she’s nice, and looks nice, and responds flustered and politely. It doesn’t make it her fault, but creepy guys go expressly for women who can be made visably uncomfortable and that’s probably why OP’s experience isn’t universal. Doesn’t make it untrue, just not common either.

        • i read an interesting study that was on how psychopath’s select victims based on how they walk, maybe something similar here? I rarely get catcalled, and if i do it tends to be more on the complimentary/less rap3-y side despite wearing high heels, ridiculous outfits and a ton of makeup. i do however have a power walk… my only thought on the differentiator.

          Sorry this is happening OP. The times i have gotten disturbing comments have f’ed with my day and it’s horrible.

      • Men have all kinds of criteria when choosing victims of harassment. Not all of these are within any woman’s control. And not all of them are things we should stop doing in order to avoid harassment. Some harass women who look vulnerable. Some harass women who look powerful. Some harass women they think are out of their league. Some harass women they think aren’t good enough for them. Some avoid RBF and others target it. And on and on. It’s really not a sign of doing something right when you happen not to fall within a bunch of bad actor’s boxes. I personally have been in the “constant cat calling” box and the “literally never catcalled even when other women report they are constantly catcalled” box in different cities and countries. I didn’t change.

      • I don’t agree with this blanket statement and I am definitely not trying to victim blame (or start a fight!), but I have to admit that I do sometimes wonder why some women seem to get catcalled significantly more than others.

        I currently live in NYC and previously lived in Los Angeles and can count on one hand the number of times I have been catcalled (if ever? maybe when I was visiting Cuba?). I am tall and thin and what most people would consider conventionally attractive. I walk outside every day (to and from work, around the block at lunch, to and from the gym, running in the park, strolls around the neighborhood, etc.). Maybe I just look at the ground all the time and don’t notice? Or have serious RBF? Or am very lucky? I actually do feel very lucky not to have to experience what the OP has been through, but I am also genuinely a bit curious as to why some people experience such horrid behavior so much more than others.

        • Anonymous at 12:57 stated it well.

          I’m conventionally attractive. I don’t get catcalled terribly often but it does happen. Usually when I do it’s quieter, like a guy I walk within a few feet of murmuring “hey baby nice X” or “[email protected], girl”, rather than some guy yelling something obscene out of the side of his car. However, I get propositioned by married guys and hit on (or am the subject of s3xist remarks) in work contexts a lot. Maybe it’s because I happen to spend more time at work rather than walking on sidewalks.

          The reasons may vary, but I think all but the most simple-minded men and women, and the most victim-blamey people realize that whether someone is harassed or assaulted his nothing to do with whether they’re pretty enough for it. Sick of this nonsense.

        • What you are wearing is irrelevant. I was catcalled wearing a hiking rain coat, rain boots, sweat pants (the old school kind), no make up and hair a disaster. Clothes do not matter.

          I was so disturbed and shocked that I actually took a photo of myself and texted to a friend to validate the ridiculousness.

    • Well I must be ugly because no man has ever called out to me or looked at me even 10 years ago. I’d be flattered.

      • Can't relate to this t hread :

        I’m clearly the minority here. Personal texts and lewd comments about a woman’s body are unacceptable, but I feel good when I get complimented by men in a nice way — hi beautiful, love your dress, you have a beautiful smile, you’re so pretty, etc. I just don’t see why so many of you get so upset by this. I find it validating. Truth be told, if no guy made any comment to me for more than a few weeks I would start to wonder if I was looking shchlumpy. TO BE CLEAR, I’m not talking about vulgar comments, just the harmless ones I described above.

        • 1) I don’t get my validation from strange men’s approval of me.

          2) Some nice, reasonable looking regular guy in my coffee shop saying “love your dress” is different than some lecher on the street leering at me in saying “dang girl, love that dress, mhhhhhhmm.” A friend saying that is much better than a potential colleague saying that while looking at me up and down. Context clues determine whether they are harmless, and the posters here have been talking about inappropriate comments or comments that are inappropriate because of their context. No one is talking about being angry when they get complimented in a “nice way.” Come on.

        • It’s upsetting because I’m not a contestant in a beauty pageant and I haven’t submitted my photo on Hot or Not. My mere existence in the outside world is not validated by what men think of my appearance as I walk by. I am going into my office where I respect others and expect others to respect me. I am with my little niece who I want to enjoy her childhood innocent and free of the corrupt s3xual predatory eyes of men. I am practicing law where I have a duty to my client to represent their interests and am until someone decides I’m nothing but something nice to look at. An object in a museum. I am mourning terrible news that has permanently altered my life and a man decides he doesn’t like my sad face and tells me to smile. I am practicing to compete in state championships, about to puke my guts out because I’ve just PRed my best mile time, and a middle aged man driving by decides it’s fun to make a 16-year-old (as in, a minor, a child) uncomfortable and feel threatened by making kissy faces and shouting s3xual comments at her in front of her teammates. It is an act of control, meant to degrade. The men don’t expect me to stop and say, “OMG thank you, can we go on a date?” (At worst), it’s meant to demean me or (at best), it’s meant to make me appear how they want me to be in their world, a smiling pretty girl, not a sad one with a scowl on her face. Can you see how this is different than showing up to a friend’s house or a wedding and a friend compliments me by saying “you look really nice!” That is a compliment and I appreciate it. Same goes for my male friends, it’s perfectly nice to say “hey, great suit!” but would be inappropriate and weird if I said it to a stranger on his way to work.

        • Anonymous :

          These comments can quickly escalate to or include following, intimidation, leering, or other scary and violent actions. I’m glad it doesn’t happen to you, but I definitely can tell the difference between a stranger casually commenting “Nice dress!” (usually a woman, TBH) and a man’s “Nice dress” (often insinuating it’s attractive, highlights my figure, etc. Not wanted or needed attention.

      • I’m think I’m at least moderately attractive (not stunningly beautiful, but I’m tall and slim) and I’ve never experienced this except in Europe. I’ve lived in Boston, the bay area and now a mid-size Midwestern city.

        • my opinion :

          I actually think the more attractive you are, the less overt cat calls and lewd comments you will get. Instead, you’ll get compliments like hi beautiful and hi gorgeous or have men stare at you or open doors for you, etc. I think men feel less inhibited about catcalling those that are not as conventionally attractive — the men think they can get away with it more, or feel like the women should “appreciate” their advances because they’re not as pretty. It’s really messed up but I’ve seen this play out a number of times.

      • Anonymous :

        Let go of your assumption that catcalling has anything to do with attraction or attractiveness. It does not.

        • Anonymous :

          +1

        • Anonynony :

          It’s about power. These guys aren’t trying to pick us up. It happens to women across age barriers, weight, race, and “attractiveness”.

          Men don’t need to think there will be a positive response, they just need to think they can get away with it.

          SMH at this thread.

    • I have never in my life had comments like that, and I only had catcalling issues when I was studying abroad in Spain.

    • My DH was shocked too when I started telling him similar stories, and when other women he knew started sharing as well– particularly in the last oh 20 months or so. Part of the reason he was so shocked is because he’s a good man who comes from a good family/community where men don’t really act like that. That and because men are kind of blind to it until you point it out. So, take your date’s shock as a sign that he’s a good guy?

    • If it’s clothes or behavior that’s causing the problem, then why don’t legions of lesbians cat-call women? Oh wait, maybe it’s men that are the problem…

      • Burn.

        We haven’t much discussed the DM’s on social media from strangers. A guy I know told me that he, and all his friends (when they were in their 20’s), would DM any trashy looking women on social media. 2 out of 10 took the bait and would meet to hook up.

        This blog we post on is not filled with women who have social media pictures of their tongues hanging out suggestively , b r e a s t s out, our bums on full display. But there are plenty of women that seek out this type of attention and thrive on it.

        • Anonymous :

          If women seek out attention and get it, that’s fine. That’s attention, not harassment. In my peer group, my girl friends and I (all well educated professionals in our late 20s/early 30s, fully clothed in photos) have all received unsolicited DMs. We are have been called insults when we ignore messages or reply and try to shut the guy down. Guys have said I’m “not that hot anyway” or I even got accused of “thinking I’m too good” when I didn’t respond to 3 or 4 unsolicited DMs in a row. Its disturbing.

        • What on earth does that have to do with anything discussed here.

          Oh, and they didn’t stop on their 30th birthday, trust.

  9. LL Bean discount :

    I recently made a big purchase from LL Bean and received a $10 voucher, which expires on Oct 22. I don’t think it has any restrictions attached to it. I live in Canada and I’m not planning on another purchase from them in the time frame. If anyone wants the voucher, the code is: 2000228428199400646, pin number 6529.

    • THANK YOU!!

      My dog decided to rip the heck out of the tiny hole in her dog bed cover last night. Ordering her a replacement now. Oh dog, you’re lucky you’re cute…

    • That’s really nice of you! I have an LL Bean credit card, which I’ve used for daily purchases and paid off as they give $10 gift certificates. I’ve had it for…15+ years? Recently they announced they will no longer do this. Any suggestions for a good rewards card?

      • Airline miles. I haven’t paid for a plane ticket in a long time.

      • Love my Citi Double Cash card. 2% back on everything with no rotating categories to keep tabs on. Super simple to redeem, can just apply to statement balance.

      • Diana Barry :

        They replaced my LL Bean visa with an LL Bean mastercard and we are getting the same coupons as before – they just changed the name.

  10. Suit Q -- skirt length :

    Ladies who wear skirt suits — how long is your skirt? Ending @ knees? Covering the knees? Below the knees?

    I’m 5-4 and the regular skirt I ordered is 26″ and comes past my knees (not quite to Juniper Creek territory, but it’s a lot longer than I’m used to). The petite is 24″.

    I haven’t bought a skirt suit in about 4 years, so is a longer skirt current? Or do I just need to send back and go with the petite?

    • I’m 5’3 and I wear skirts at the top of my knee. Otherwise I look stumpy.

    • Top of my knees.

    • I’d say order the petite!

    • I think to the middle or the bottom of the knee is the current length. I’m guessing a 26” length hits you mid calf if you’re 5’4” as I’m 5’10” and 26” is knee length for me.

      I’d get it tailored.

    • Ending at or just above the knee. Even though I am tall, long skirts are not flattering on me.

    • Unless it’s truly a midi skirt, it should not be well past your knees. I like my skirts to hit about mid-knee or slightly above. I’m about 5’3″ and find that skirts that are about 22″ work well for me.

      • Anonymous :

        + 1 mid-knee or slightly above, especially as I get older (it just looks more age-appropriate at 40 than it did at 25).

    • I always have mine end right above my knee. I am short though. My tall co-worker has hers right to her knee.

    • Longer skirts aren’t necessarily the thing, but they maybe responding to taller customers who are tired of skirts that are too short for them.

      Personally I like at the knee or just below. Which is a challenge unless the skirt size is offered in a tall.

      • Yes, me too. It has nothing to do with what is trendy right now, but I personally like a 25′ inch skirt and I’m 5’5.

  11. For those of you who do some work after the kid/s go to bed, how do you do it? Do you reserve certain tasks for the evening when you have lower energy? I’m going to full-time in October but maintaining my 4 day a week schedule. I’m planning to work Sunday am but need to squeeze in a bit more time during the week. I’m an academic so working largely independently and nothing is super urgent.

    • Can you work 4 ten hour days?

    • I’m just impressed that you’re an academic who works ~40 hours/week. My husband works 70+ hour workweeks. And he has tenure, so it’s like he’s working because he fears his job is in jeopardy.

    • At times I’ve worked a similar schedule. I aimed to work for an hour three out of four evenings, Monday through Thursday, to give myself some flexibility. Friday night off. A half day on the weekend, wherever it fit best. I found I often worked more than an hour once I sat myself down.

      I’d say not to save “easy” tasks, but instead to avoid anything that requires great precision or could be ruined by an interruption. As an academic, for instance, you might plan to do reading, crunch data, or write, but avoid entering grades that could be lost in the university’s online system if a kid emergency arises, and you step away long enough to get automatically logged out! :-)

    • I do it because I have no choice. I lost the most productive hour of my day (5:30 p.m. to 6:30 p.m.) to pick up and have to make it up somewhere.

      YMMV, but I find it easier to do either research and writing at night (I write all my CLE and other speaking materials at night) or to do administrative/non-billable work (time, billing, associate reviews, etc.). I agree that detail-oriented things (reviewing client financials, editing agreements/pleadings, discovery objections) are better daytime tasks.

      What helps me most is to have a good playlist going to keep me motivated and a nice cup of hot or iced herbal tea. I also set up a firm stop time to help myself use the time for work instead of piddling around tidying up and give myself a reward at the end (usually the Colbert monologue).

    • I don’t know, I can’t do academic work after my kids are in bed, my brain is too fried. I do answer routine emails, etc., then. But I definitely can’t grade papers or do my own writing then.

    • lawsuited :

      I usually bring home briefs to review. I write paper notes or dictate notes as I go. I can do it in any spot that’s comfy, and I don’t have to stare at my computer screen right before bedtime (which negatively impacts my sleep).

  12. Can we talk about the anonymous op-Ed in the NYT? On the one hand, I’m glad this is out there, but on the other, it seems cowardly to be like “the president is totally unhinged and we are actively undermining him but we’re not talking impeachment or 25th amendment anytime soon!”

    Of course, Trump’s predictable autocratic response is just as alarming.

    • It’s so bonkers

    • I am sincerely curious what the anonymous person who wrote this was hoping to accomplish and who was their intended audience. As far as I can tell, no one on either side of the aisle is impressed right now.

      • Oh my brain :

        My brain can go to crazy places and when I heard about this, I thought Pence wrote it to stir up the crazy in Trump. The crazier Trump gets, the more the public wants him out, leaving Pence in control after an impeachment. Catfish 101.

        • Haha I love it, but don’t think the NYT would have let Pence publish anonymously. Pence was also elected, so Trump can’t just fire him and the article says the official reasonably fears losing his job.

          • It says that publishing his identity would “jeopardize his job” – I don’t think that means necessarily that he would lose his job, just that he wouldn’t be able to perform his job the same way.

        • Speechwriter circles are saying it was coded to look like it came from Pence (including the use of his pet word ‘lodestar’) as a red herring.

        • Pence was the first to issue an official statement denying he did it, and I always feel like the person who cries the loudest about not doing it probably did it.

      • Yeah, I was wondering this as well. It’s obvious that there are adults in the room when you look at how Trump talks vs. some of his government’s concrete actions–Russia is an obvious example. But I don’t see how waving that in front of anyone’s face is a good idea?

    • I think it’s Pence that wrote it and it’s not that he’s actually trying to save the country, he’s just trying to save his own hide. If Muller’s investigation ends in indictments for high-level administration officials, he will unmask himself as the author of this and say “see, I was a good guy all along.” But I grew up in Indiana, so I’m very cynical about Mike Pence.

    • Right? I don’t find it reassuring that there are unelected bureaucrats running the company.

      • I agree. It would be different, perhaps, if the op-ed writer alleged something illegal or unconstitutional, or they were talking 25th Amendment, since all federal employees pledge to uphold the constitution and defend the country. But the op-ed writer thinks Trump is immoral and doesn’t adhere to conservative policies/ideals. Well, the voters knew both of those things before the election, and Trump won because of it, not in spite of it. It doesn’t give me any comfort to think that an elected president’s administration is actively undermining him. If the President is doing something illegal or unconstitutional, or if he’s incompetent, there are channels for that (not that I have much optimism about those channels working, but this isn’t a good alternative).

        I also agree with OP that this move seems cowardly. If there’s something alarming you need to tell the public, sacrifice your job and say it.

      • Ditto. These resistors have no mandate to go about effectively running the country to maintain their own agendas.

        Talk about having your cake and eating it, too.

    • Yeah I mean I’m glad there are people who might prevent Trump from starting nuclear war, but otherwise I’m not impressed. Unless you are a complete idiot, it’s always been clear what kind of person Trump is. The fact that mainstream Republicans were willing to sell their soul and the country’s safety in exchange for achieving “conservative” policy goals is disgusting.

    • I read it as a self-congratulatory insurance policy to distance staffers from the bad deeds of the administration so they are not political pariahs when they leave. There is no noble motive, because if there were, they would either continue to do what the author says is being done without calling the practice to the President’s attention, or publicly call for official oversight.

    • i think anonymous op-ed’s are cowardly.

    • I don’t get it either. It wasn’t reassuring at all. We’re now openly acknowledging that there is a shadow government running this country? This is all too crazy. I really want the midterms to get here.

    • I’m liberal, and I find it disturbing on both sides. On the one hand, what kind of coward would actively undermine and disobey their boss while professing loyalty? On the other hand, this coward has accepted an amoral leader with an affinity for dictators because they get to pass some tax reform. So amorality isn’t a dealbreaker.

    • I’m always amazed at my ability to continue to be shocked by Trump’s responses to things. Demanding that journalists turn their sources over the government rang a very dystopian bell for me. He thinks national security is a magic wand he can wave that will let him do whatever he wants and violate any part of the constitution that doesn’t suit his personal interests at any given time. Freedom of the press is in danger right now and it legitimately scares me more than most of the other things he’s done.

    • Since Congress has proved pretty ineffective at doing anything – not the least of which is restraining or discussing the antics of POTUS in a meaningful way – I’m not surprised that this person decided going public didn’t make sense.

    • Could someone with more political savvy or con law knowledge explain why invoking the 25th would have caused a constitutional crisis? If his staff instigated the action, it seems like it would have been a bi-partisan action with only fringe opposition. What am I missing? Why was that option dismissed but it’s okay to undermine him on the regular?

      • Pretty sure they meant “constitutional crisis” in the broader sense – taking action to remove a sitting president.

    • Yeah, it got a huge ol’ eyeroll from me. I thought it kind of read like liberal fanfiction in some way (saying this as an angry liberal myself).

      What was it supposed to accomplish other than to fuel the outrage economy? It allows the president and his supporters to foam at the mouth about the dishonest media and Deep State conspiracies and it confirms the liberal position that, “Look, everyone knows he’s an autocratic nutjob.” Assuming that someone in the administration actually authored it, what are we supposed to do? Pat you on the back for half-*ssed undermining a bully in a way that keeps you entirely protected? You get no points from me, since it’s both cowardly and self aggrandizing. I guess I’m glad there are a few grownups theoretically still left but trying to get credit for really underhanded stuff is nonsense.

    • There’s an LA Times opinion called “No, anonymous Trump official, you’re not ‘part of the resistance.’ You’re a coward” that lays this out well. Also, Michael Barbaro said something interesting this morning on The Daily that perhaps this NYT op-ed was put out there to convince Republicans who don’t like to Trump not to vote for Democrats in the midterms.

    • Count me appalled. It’s incredibly self important to think you’re saving the world by keeping quiet. David Frum has a really terrific piece about the whole bit. As many people have noted, if the people who are truly concerned from within actually spoke out they would have a lot more impact, not to mention that an op ed like this is beyond reckless if you’re trying to accomplish anything moderating from the inside. I am really floored. This is the kind of thing that we used to get from “behind the iron curtain,” not from within an American administration.

      I’m also curious about how this plays out. It seems like POTUS – in this instance – would be justified in having the justice department or whoever open up an investigation and then does the NYT have to reveal the source? Aren’t free speech rights of gov’t employees limited? I haven’t thought this all through yet but it seems shortsighted to do this in more ways than one.

    • My guess is that they’re trying to prevent a democratic landslide in November.

      Sort of like Not All Men, it’s Not All Republicans.

      Vote blue.

    • I’m going to be really pissed if these Republicans truly have these grave concerns and then give Trump the nomination in 2020. The entire GOP is so cowardly these days.

      Also, any ideas on when we can expect more information from Mueller?

      • OTOH, who is Trump going to run against? It seems like there is no one out there. So whatever the amendment is that says no third term, yay for that.

        • Huh? There are a lot of Democratic candidates – Biden, Bernie, Elizabeth Warren, Eric Holder, etc. There will be a primary to determine who runs against Trump, but that’s normal.

          • I’m guessing Anon above means there’s no one in the GOP running against him.

          • None of them can pull off a win – maybe Biden but certainly none of the rest so nominating them is a waste. And IDK about you all but if it’s a socialist vs Trump, I’m voting Trump no questions asked. I don’t want a socialist at the helm of the economy because I have zero interest in 50% capital gains taxes or paying for anyone else’s college.

          • Pretty Primadonna :

            Anonymous @ 12:42. And therein lies the problem. *sighs*

          • Anonymous :

            I mean…you have to get Congress on board with either of those things, so maybe go with the guy who isn’t purposefully trying to start a trade war and then elect your Congressional delegates to keep the improbable tax hikes from happening?

    • Senior Attorney :

      I thought this pretty well summed it up: http://dearcoquette.com/on-the-resistance-inside-the-trump-administration/

  13. Reposting from yesterday, any good shopping recommendations for while in Washington DC?

    • literally no. shopping here is terrible. It’s overpriced old lady boutiques or the same mall stuff you can find anywhere. Sorry to be a downer, but it’s one of my least favorite things about my favorite city.

      • OP here. Its been ages since I was in DC and I was hoping they had some of the boutique clothes or accessories hops like NYC had but are lacking in middle country (MMLF, Everlane, Cuyana). Sounds like probably not…

        • BabyAssociate :

          There’s an MMLF, but no Everlane or Cuyana.

        • There are a few nice places in Georgetown that aren’t EVERYWHERE – Barney’s Co-Op, Cusp, Intermix, Karen Millen, Massimo Dutti. Also there are some very high-end places in City Center – Burberry, Carolina Herrera, Dior, Gucci, and Hermes.

        • There is an MMLF showroom, but I think you need to make an appointment.

        • They have MMLF. Don’t know about the others.

        • Aside from what has been mentioned here, you can also book an appointment at Trunk Club in Penn Quarter for personal styling.

    • BabyAssociate :

      What are you looking for? I don’t really think of DC as much of a shopping destination, but I suppose it depends on where you’re coming from.

    • Clothes shopping, I assume? Just walk around in Georgetown on M St, there’s plenty.

    • Tysons Corner?

      There’s not much in D.C. proper.

    • Yeah, DC’s not really a shopping destination. We have the same stores you find everywhere else.

      Gosh, what’s that one super high end, been around forever boutique that D.C.’s society ladies frequent? (I wouldn’t know since I’m a Talbots shopper.) It starts with an R, I think, maybe a Greek last name?

      Secondi is great for consignment if that’s your thing.

    • City Center DC now has some fancy shops that could make good window shopping. Other than that, there are various clothing stores around Georgetown and 14th St/ U St but nothing to go out of your way for.

    • FMMV, but the mix at Tyson’s is about 200% better for business formal wear than the choices in my Midwest City. So many suits!! Real pumps! Things made for women over 20 and under 75!

      I also confess to a fondness for the Leesburg outlet mall. It’s sort of a schlep, but I have gotten some epic deals at the Burberry and Williams-Sonoma stores there.

  14. Law School Professors :

    We just had the associates move up a year to the point where the two associates I supervise are 3rd and 5th years. This is more experience in private practice than most of my former colleagues who went into teaching had. I have been practicing way longer than them and in no way know it all (and have such deep/narrow experience sometimes that I like to do things like follow my clients (even if they are kids fresh out of school on their first job) for a couple of hours b/c I always learn something on the business side or appreciate things in a new light).

    I had some great adjuncts in law school and felt like I learned a ton from them. And some regular professors were good, too, but often (so often) school just doesn’t mesh at all with practicing law. And it is so expensive! I hope that med schools aren’t so abstract the way law school can be (and that med school profs aren’t doctors who practiced for 2 years and gave it up to teach).

    • I wonder if we’d come out of law school somewhat useful if more classes were taught by actual practicing lawyers. I got a ton out of a practical skills class taught by adjuncts who were partners at a major firm.

  15. Can we talk about the Burberry thing where they said they’d stop destroying unsold merchandise? To be honest, I didn’t really know this was happening until they announced they were ending the practice, but apparently it’s fairly widespread and companies do it to keep their “brand prestige” by not allowing their unsold clothing to go to discount stores or donating it.
    A lot of us here are willing to drop some significant $$$ on clothes and accessories. A lot of us also like a good discount. Does seeing a brand in a thrift store, or in a discounted outlet type place make you value the brand less? Does knowing that a brand is so wasteful make you less likely to buy from them?

    • They also just announced they are ending the use of fur.

      • This is a genuine question. I am not trying to start a pro vs. anti-fur debate (and for reference the only thing I own with fur is a coat with a fur collar from the 50’s I inherited from my grandmother).

        Why is using (farmed) fur worse then wearing leather?

    • I like a good sale, especially when the products themselves are overpriced relative to what you are buying ($300 for a standard size wool scarf that is not 100% cashmere or something similar is crazypants). At some point you are paying just for branding and not for any improvement in quality, fit, or design, so discounting is the logical result.

      And from a retail point of view, some discounting of “prestige” brands keeps stores like Nord Rack going and bring in new customers. The 25 year old who can only afford the Rack today and gets a pair of sale Tory Burches from last season probably is more likely to spring for full price at some point than someone who has never tried them.

    • I prioritize social responsibility over prestige, personally. If a brand is willing to donate their unsold merchandise to thrift stores (especially local, independent ones that do a lot of good for their communities) and shelters, I think I’d love them even more! And if I did see a high-end brand or designer in a thrift store, I’d be ecstatic.

    • One stitch at a time :

      Not an answer to your question, but an article (link below) about Eileen Fisher recycling old clothes.

    • One stitch at a time :

      https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/eileen-fisher-wants-those-clothes-back-when-youre-done/2018/08/31/cd873aea-ac58-11e8-b1da-ff7faa680710_story.html?utm_term=.879b0ff09ea1

    • I think you may be missing the point of destroying the clothes. It’s not that we won’t value it and buy it. It’s that we’ll be looking for it at the outlet mall or NWT at Goodwill instead of being sure that the main store has the lowest price on new items. It’s like deciding to buy from LOFT – I don’t think 95% of their customers ever shop full priced items. Just wait two days for a sale. By allowing much-lower priced options for the same merchandise, they are creating uneven competition for their main brand.

  16. Grateful for any thoughts about how to dress for an interview with colleagues for higher-ranked position in the same organization. I am the in-house candidate (and local favorite, I think) for an expanded version of my current role, with additional supervisory scope over a broader part of the organization. I am currently leading a project that will be a major focus of the position.

    This will be a half-day interview; one discussion will be with direct colleagues at the same rank. Others will be with my current supervisor and leaders 1, 2, and 3 steps up. The tricky part of the interview will be with peers and leaders in the new area. I had responsibilities there briefly (for about four months in 2017), so I am a known face and name, but the concerns and politics are rather different.

    I usually dress on the high end of business casual (often a jacket, but never a matched suit), possibly a notch more formal than most of my direct colleagues. Everyone knows very well how I usually look!

    So: should I carry on with a nice outfit of my usual type or would it be better to show up in formal interview attire? I assume any external candidates will wear suits.

    • I think you should definitely wear what the other candidates wear. Dressing less formally than them might send the message that you think you’re somehow special and don’t have to present yourself as carefully. If a suit is the standard, wear the suit.

    • I would wear a suit like other candidates. Even though you’re an internal candidate, it is still an interview. Good luck!

  17. Is late summer / fall a popular time for lawyers to quit their jobs? I have noticed several posts the last month or so. Maybe it’s still far enough from bonus time?

    • Some firms operate on a July 1-July 30 fiscal year, meaning annual performance bonuses are paid in the summer (and performance reviews are given in the same time frame).

    • It’s a more popular time for hiring than say, Nov- Jan, so that correlates with more quitting. Because lots of law firms (mostly biglaw) hire people to start in late summer/early fall, that’s when your class year (including compensation) change as well.

  18. For whom will you travel to an out-of-state wedding? Family only? BFFs? Regular friends?

    Someone I’d put in the regular friend category invited me to her wedding. It sounds like it’s going to be a small affair and that I was one of the early ones she told, so I’m touched, but I just really do not want to go through the hassle of air travel, rental car, hotel… Gosh, that sounds awful typing out. I want to decline and send a gift, but I feel guilty about not having a “real” reason to do so. If you had the time and the money, would you hop on a plane for a friend’s wedding?

    • Please just live your life. It’s not weird she invited you. It’s not awful to decline. Sometimes I travel to friends weddings, sometimes I don’t. Depending solely on whether I want to go.

      • Seriously!

        Also I think if you don’t have a really compelling reason to not go, you should! It will probably be fun and you’ll be happy you went.

    • Absolutely I’d travel for a friend. Being a good friend is showing up.

      • +1. I’m a big “showing up” person. I realize an invitation is not a summons, but I will admit that I was hurt that some people I considered fairly close friends didn’t attend my wedding (without an obvious conflict). If you aren’t willing to spend time and money to attend someone’s wedding, it says something about how you view the friendship. I naturally grew a lot closer to the people who did show up and distanced myself from the ones who didn’t — not because I was “punishing” them for not showing up, but I realized that they didn’t think we were as close as I did, and I wanted to focus time and energy on my friends who would show up for me.

    • Regular friends, unless it conflicts with pre-existing plans. I went to college in the Northeast and friends were from all over the country and scattered widely after graduation. I wouldn’t have attended any weddings if I only attended local weddings. I like weddings and I’ve only missed two weddings I was invited to – one we had already booked a vacation when we got the save-the-date and the other was in India and I was very pregnant and didn’t want to travel out of the country.
      But if you don’t want to go, don’t feel like you have to go.

    • BabyAssociate :

      An invitation is not a summons, don’t go if you don’t want to! I’ve moved a lot, so I have only been to out-of-state weddings, but I’m starting to skip more and more for the same reasons you mention. It absolutely does not sound awful.

    • Yes. I try to make it to as many weddings as I can, because I loved having my friends from all over the world attend mine. If I have a real conflict then thats one thing, but in general my husband and I will try to make it work.

      • +1. It meant so much to me that people came from all over the world for our wedding, including people that I didn’t think of as “BFFs” so I try to do the same. That said, cost isn’t a huge factor for us and if traveling to weddings meant we couldn’t take our own vacation, I’m not sure I’d have the same attitude. Fortunately we can afford to do both.

      • If you are not able to attend for whatever reason just send a gift and a thoughtful note. It sounds like she really values your friendship so maybe also send a text on the morning of her wedding day wishing her well (I had a friend who did this and it meant a lot). I live on one side of the country but got married in my hometown on the other side of the country. I had many friends who couldn’t make the trip for various reasons. Some handled it really well and made it a point to acknowledge that this was a big day in my life even though they couldn’t be there to celebrate with me. Others didn’t. Looking back I think a few felt embarrassed/guilty that they opted not to make the cross-country trip and instead of owning their choices elected not to acknowledge my wedding at all (to the point where I had to chase them for their RSVPs when I had to give final numbers to the caterers). Even several years down the road, their behavior still stings a bit. I’d make whatever choice is right for you, do your best to honor her day, and trust that all will be OK.

      • +1

        I always go to funerals and weddings are just as much of a reunion, but the are HAPPY ones. And my vacations are extravagant (sadly). Wedding travel to me is just business — usually a Hampton Inn (often not, sometimes someone’s couch, which can be fun and if it’s not, a really sweet gesture) in a place I might not have visited otherwise (Wheeling WVA, Akron, Oklahoma). I see it as a big adventure / sociology practicum if nothing else, but usually I am always glad I went.

        I turned down a wedding when I was 8 months pregnant and didn’t want to have a baby on someone’s wedding cruise or have a 5-hour drive turn into 15 b/c I was stopping every 30 miles for a rest stop or more Tums.

    • Yes, absolutely.

    • Don’t go and don’t feel guilty about it. Your money and time are yours to spend as you please. If you don’t want to do it then you don’t have to.

      I get on a plane for family, very dear friends, or good destinations (mostly because all but the coldest of cold-hearted partners view “attending a wedding” as one of the few reasonable excuses to not work extensively while on vacation). That calculus might change if I have a ton of weddings that year or if the wedding is very difficult/expensive to get to or there’s some other reason I don’t want to go (like sry I’m not going to your wedding in India in July I don’t care how close we are… schedule it in the winter and I’m there).

    • Okay, I love weddings, so I would. But I also think that, in our modern lives, having friends is a hassle in general? Attending a wedding–even with traveling–adds a lot to a friendship all at once, way out of proportion to what it costs (even though the hassle is also concentrated). And then you are off the hook for a while afterward too. I’m being a bit facetious, but I do believe that sharing in those memories can anchor a friendship in a special way.

    • Do you know other people at the wedding? Will you have fun? Is it a city you enjoy visiting?

    • I always try to make it work. I maximize my travel points through strategic credit card usage and early reservations to lessen the sting. I get that it’s annoying to go through the whole travel process, but weddings are almost always fun and it means a lot for your friend.

    • It’s fine either way. We had a destination-ish wedding (in the US, but in a tourist area where neither of us grew up). Some friends came, some friends didn’t, it didn’t really bother me either way. I will say that I found it a bit hurtful that one friend declined the invite and then went on vacation with her BF to our wedding destination the very next weekend. It wouldn’t have been hurtful if she said “hey, another friend’s getting married that weekend, sorry I can’t make it (or some other event that conflicted with our particular date)” But she just told me it was too long a drive for them, and then the next weekend there she was, posting photos at our wedding venue, so it seemed like she wanted to visit the destination and actively wanted to avoid our wedding, which definitely stung.

      • Yeah that friend is a b**ch. That honestly sounds like she meant to rub it in your face that she didn’t want to go. I’m shocked that you’re still friends with her. She could have even said “hey I already have plans to be there the weekend after and can’t move the dates, and can’t afford to do your wedding too.” But to say to your face its too long, then drive there the next weekend and take pics AT YOUR WEDDING VENUE! Dude, this woman hates you.

        • Anonymous :

          Ha, yeah we’re not really friends anymore. We were never super close and I mostly invited her because she was part of a friend group and I wanted to invite everyone else in the group and thought it would be cruel to exclude one person out of a group. I was definitely not surprised or upset that she didn’t come, but it was still hurtful that she basically lied to my face about it. Our wedding venue is the main hotel in town and she was staying there (as most people do), so I don’t think she went out of her way to go to our venue. But it was definitely odd to see photos of her at my wedding venue pop up on Facebook while I was still on my honeymoon when she didn’t attend the wedding.

    • Depends on finances, time off from work, and how easy it is to get there. I’m much more likely to go to weddings that have an in-town airport than those that do not, and much more likely to go if I know people besides the bride.

      I’ve let my out of town friends know who else is going to my wedding, so they can coordinate flights, rental cars, hotel rooms, etc. That means they can split things like parking at the home airport, the cost of the rental, a hotel suite or room, etc. So it’s still not cheap and it’s still a weekend away, but it does cut costs and stress.

    • For me it depends on how easily I can afford the cost, how important it is to me to go to that person’s wedding, whether the timing works with my other obligations, with bonus points if it’s somewhere I want to travel to anyway.

    • Totally up to you whether you want to go, and I don’t feel an obligation to go to every wedding I’m invited to. But don’t think it is weird at all to be invited. I have actually only gone to one wedding that I didn’t have to travel for – college friends got married in college city after I moved away, law school friends got married in law school city after I moved away, law school friends got married in their home towns, current city friends got married in home towns, etc.

    • Senior Attorney :

      Depends on a whole bunch of factors. It’s fine to go, it’s fine to not go: “Oh, I’d love to but I just can’t make it work! We will be thinking of you and raise a glass that night in your honor!”

    • Family and BFFs only. I decline invitations to out of town weddings with no remorse. It’s nice to be invited but flights and hotels are expensive and my funds are not limitless.

    • Yes, I always do if I possibly can! This season of life is fleeting – in ten years you’ll miss getting to catch up at weddings.

      • This is a good point. I know celebration fatigue is absolutely a thing, but as someone mentioned maybe a few months ago, at a certain point in your life you start attending more funerals, and the weddings and baby showers are few and far between, and you may start to miss them.

        But, the reality is, sometimes you just don’t have the time, money, or energy for every celebration you’re invited to, and that’s okay! I would just maybe try to reframe the situation before writing it off.

      • + 1 So true. I always make it a point to attend weddings (and funerals) if I possibly can. Don’t go if you can’t afford it, but if you can and would enjoy it I would absolutely go. It meant so much to me to have friends fly out of town for my wedding.

    • As someone who’s now 35 and mostly out of the wedding season of life, I say go! I really miss getting to catch up with my college and high school friends annually. Everyone’s having baby showers, but it’s not nearly as common to attend an out of town baby shower for a regular friend – I’ve only traveled to baby showers for BFFs. And I miss seeing my regular friends!!

    • Definitely for family, and for people I consider close friends. For everyone else, it depends on the location; if it would be a fun place to visit and I can afford the trip, a wedding is a great excuse to go there! If it’s kind of a “meh” place but lots of people I know and like to hang out with will be there, that could also be a draw for me; this past May I spent hours of driving and hundreds on a hotel in the middle of nowhere so I could attend the wedding of a really great person I hadn’t seen in years, and hang out with other people I hadn’t seen in years, so I felt the trip was well worth the travel and cost. But that’s my criteria, and your criteria can be different. If the trip sounds like more of a hassle than it’s worth, decline! As people say, an invitation is not a summons.

      Besides, weddings usually have a cost per plate. If you decline, they might be able to invite someone else who didn’t make the cut, or you’d be saving them money. Couples generally don’t want people to reluctantly drag themselves to their weddings out of obligation, they want guests who genuinely want to be there and were happy to make the trip.

  19. Architecture Books :

    Any recommendations for a book about residential architecture/home styles, etc. for the the layperson? I love reading McMansion Hell’s posts on the different names of things and why certain styles work. Not sure if such books exist, but would love anything that might inform me about the styles, as I would love to build a house in the next few years.

    • Tom Wolfe’s From Bauhaus to Our House?

    • Anonymous :

      As a place to start, I’ve noticed that public libraries will often hang on to good lay-audience architecture books (I think because it’s a common amateur interest that also ties in with local history in many parts of the country).

    • Anon architect :

      A Pattern Language is a bit hippy-ish, but totally the best!

    • Anonymous :

      Very late but I love “a field guide to American houses,” which breaks down by category and makes looking at houses more fun!

  20. I just received a rejection from my dream job. I am super sad about it. There is no happy ending here (and there likely wont be for another year minimum). This was the only thing getting me to work in the morning. I had my exit plan already made. Just venting, sorry.

    • Hey. Been there. It’s really hard. Take it easy today.

    • I’m really sorry. I’m in job search hell too and I’ve been rejected without an interview at a company I used to work at. Then I got a message from a friend saying she got an interview for that job and asking for tips. Did I mention it was also my dream job? Job searching f*cking sucks.

    • Sorry to hear. Be kind to yourself. We’ve all been there. You will find a great position!

    • Anonymous :

      My mom (who I promise is not a hippie or an Oprah fan, etc.) says that “rejection is nature’s protection.” These sayings make me cringe usually, but that one has proved consistently accurate. You will find something even better soon. Best wishes.

    • You will rise beyond this! :

      This happened to me, and I was devastated because it meant that I would have to spend the next 6 months working 80 hours a week on the terrible awful matter with the terrible awful colleagues and client.

      But you know what? I closed that matter. A month later, dream job called and offered me a newly created position. And I turned them down – because I had just received an even better offer that has only become more and more of a dream job since!

      I know it is so hard, and I am terrible at having faith. But keep your chin up. And treat yourself this weekend – massage, mani/pedi, sleeping in, fancy dinner out for one?

  21. Just a PSA for the poster who felt slighted when a friend said she was nervous about her son starting daycare at age 2 … I just inadvertently offended one of my close friends, because I told her we hired a nanny to take us from 6 months to 2 years. I said something about how it was expensive (this friend and I discuss finances fairly openly) but I thought it would be worth it for the individualized attention. My friend later told me she was very hurt and thought I was judging her choice to send her son to daycare at 6 months. I absolutely was not trying to. My friend is much wealthier than me and I know she could afford a nanny if she wanted one, so I thought she had made a determination that daycare was better for her son than a nanny – I know there are people that think kids benefit from the socialization at daycare and feel more comfortable with the fact that daycares are regulated by the state, so I can totally understand making either choice. I was just trying to say that a nanny felt right for us at all, but I sincerely wasn’t trying to judge her choices at all. I’m so glad she told me she was hurt so I could apologize and be more careful with my wording in the future. But I would really really try to assume good intentions with your friend – I feel like all the conversations around childcare are so loaded and it’s so easy for people to assume someone is judging you just because they’ve made a different choice. In reality, most of us think our choice is good but other choices are also good.

    • “In reality, most of us think our choice is good but other choices are also good.”

      So much this. How I chose to parent my child is not a commentary on how anyone else parents theirs.

  22. For the next two weeks or so, I have to do one of the most boring projects I’ve ever done. I’m an attorney, and I’m basically reviewing and documenting requirements in hundreds of contracts. This is not work I typically do but it’s a necessary step to do a more substantive analysis later on that should be interesting. It requires more focus than doc review (so I can’t have an interesting TV show or podcast on in the background) but it is otherwise pretty mindless. I am bored out of my mind, even with background music on, and I am having a really hard time maintaining focus. Any tips for improving focus and productivity?

    • I’ve done some similar projects where I was reviewing documents for compliance with regulatory requirements. I used a master matrix/spreadsheet/code structure to provide high level overview and flag problems. Break it up into chunks, then take a break. I also would pick a few favorite albums and play those straight through on repeat. I can handle music and lyrics while I work, I can’t handle any sort of dialogue so tv and podcasts are out.

    • I had to do a project like this once (deposition review of dozens of plaintiffs, tracking the property damage and personal injury that each plaintiff was claiming). One thing that helped me was changing venues often. I did this work at home, in coffee shops, by the pool, etc.

    • Anonymous :

      Can you have someone run searches and flag the provisions that use a key term, like Termination? Then you could speed up review on those, and spend more of your time on the provisions that have been heavily negotiated.

  23. I have this dress in black and on me the neckline feels huge and really open. Almost not appropriate for work. YMMV–I am pretty busty so maybe that’s why? Anyways, I was a little sad because the dress looks so cute but didn’t feel comfortable in it.

  24. Work question – developing a feedback form for a mentee to fill out about their mentor. So far I’ve got a question about communication/responsiveness, quality of feedback from mentor, feedback style, and setting expectations. I’m drawing a blank on other feedback I should include here (though I’m fine to acknowledge that may be a good range). Anything else I should be asking/you’d want to know as a mentor?

    • Without knowing the scope of the relationship, I would suggest maybe something about career development. Did the mentor help develop new skills or improve existing ones? Were there opportunities provided to network or otherwise build/expand a professional circle?

  25. I’ve been long distance for 2/3 of my 2 year relationship with my bf. We said we’d talk about the future when he got back local…which means now.

    In my mind this meant discussing of timing when we were going to get engaged, etc. But he told me yesterday he wanted to take a couple days to think about whether he wanted to get married or break up.

    I’m not sure how to deal with this. I guess the only thing I can do is give him the space to think…I mean, I can’t do anything to “convince” him, can I?

    My first reaction is that I can’t imagine being happy without him…and that if we were going to break up, why did we spend over a year of energy and money making it work during this LD period? I’ve been crying in my office all day and really don’t know how to move forward.

    • I can’t imagine moving forward with someone who can’t decide whether to break up or get married. Why is it his decision? I’d dump his sorry a55 now.

      • Horse Crazy :

        +1. If he is considering breaking up with you, do you really want to marry him?

      • Senior Attorney :

        This. As we discussed yesterday, if somebody wants to be with you, they will be with you. Don’t chase him. Let him chase you.

        I’m sorry, Anonymous. This is hard! Be kind to your sweet self!

    • Oh gosh. This is so difficult. But believe these words of experience: it is so much better to know now. And you wouldn’t want to convince someone who doesn’t want to be with you to be with you.

    • Of course you can be happy without this jerk. I’m sorry he wasted your time.

    • Man, he’s handling this in a cowardly way. After a two-year relationship, what difference will a “few more days” do to convince him either way? This is a guy who doesn’t know what he wants.

    • Break up vs get married are very drastic opposites. I can see him saying he needs time to decide if he wants to get married now or wait a year. But if a breakup is even an option that’s being contemplated, doesn’t that tell you he’s not ready for marriage? I’m sorry. He sounds like a doosh.

    • Just here to say I’m sorry. THIS. SUCKS. Go with your instincts in this situation; no one can tell you what is right.

    • You should give him and yourself a lot of space. That seems like a terrible thing to present to you. Out of consideration for YOU, he should have made his decision before telling you this. Looking in from the outside, I would say that he is not worth your time. B

    • Do you want to get married to someone where the option to planning to get married now is to break up now? Have you asked him what the basis of his thoughts are? It’s really common to want to live in the same vicinity for a while after a long period of long distance to see if it strengthens the relationship or weakens it. Why is his option to break up instead of seeing how things go living in the same city?

    • Did he say why he was considering breaking up? It strikes me as cruel to tell someone you’re thinking about breaking up with them unless there’s a specific thing that you want to talk with them about. If it’s generally, oh I’m not sure yet… just say that and keep the rest to yourself. Like, he could have said, “I just got back to town and I’m not ready to talk engagement yet. Let’s just enjoy being in the same place for a while.” And if there are specific things he’s concerned about then he should tell you that. Unless there’s a lot more to the story (which there might be!) his response seems really immature. Maybe he’s doing you a favor.

    • I’m very sorry that sounds very hard. I don’t think you can marry him after this- I think he strung you along and is now going to break up with you. I don’t possibly see how you can be happy marrying him after this- youll always have this in the back of your mind

    • This power dynamic suck$. He wants to take a few days to himself, to make a unilateral decision about whether to marry or break up? I’m sure it hurts deeply after all this time, but he’s a terrible partner for doing this to you. This isn’t any kind of relationship I’d want a part of.

    • Ugh. Hug?

      I disagree with most of the above commenters. It’s extremely important to not waste someone’s time – especially if you want kids and he knows that. Unless you are very young (ie some of the distance is because of college), he knows that it’s time to fish or cut bait.

      Perhaps you both did long distance because you thought it could work. Perhaps he’s getting cold feet. Perhaps he hasn’t thought about it and wasn’t trying to hurt you, but was being selfish.

      Let him think about it. Call up your friends and schedule drinks and dinner tonight and tomorrow night. Cuddle your pet, if you have one.

    • Virtual hugs from an internet stranger! You’re right – you cannot convince someone to stay if they do not want to…. but then everyone deserves someone that couldn’t imagine being without you. From experience I can tell you that you do not want to be in a relationship where the other person’s heart isn’t in it.

      All I can add is that if it doesn’t work out then yes it will hurt (if only we could skip that part!) but you will absolutely, 100% be able to lead an amazing life without him even if it doesn’t feel like that right now. I promise. Keep your head high and be kind to yourself.

    • That sucks. Can you go get a drink with a colleague instead? Or take a walk? Maybe pick up a cupcake or ice cream? Just do something nice for yourself. If I were you, I would suggest you guys talk over dinner, and ask him why he thinks these are the options, you just listen, and then ask for a break yourself to figure out whether this is a guy you really want to marry.

    • Anonymous :

      I don’t understand why breaking up is even on the table. Unless he’s having some kind of crisis over whether he wants to get married AT ALL, and this crisis is somehow understandable? (In line for the papacy? About to live on a space station? I can’t even think of anything.)

      I would not want to continue with someone who just hasn’t decided whether to marry me or hold out for someone else. I would be upset, confused, and crushed. I’m really sorry.

    • Anonymous :

      I wouldn’t entirely freak out. I was going to break up with my husband the night he proposed. It had nothing to do with me not loving him. I wanted to move forward with our relationship and he didn’t so I wasn’t going to waste my time anymore. It was a hard month or two though because I had emotionally checked out in order to muster the courage to dump him so the proposal was an emotional roller coaster.

      • Anonymous :

        I married the guy who sort of put me through this (we were young, we came from different cultures, we had both been prioritizing careers that would lead us in different directions, getting together was going to radically change both of our lives, neither of us had previously included getting married as part of our life plans, etc.). In part it was a sign that we would be working on communication for a while! It helped that he was as emotionally invested as I was, and I’m glad we worked through it. There was never any doubt about what we meant to each other though–just about how to make a shared life possible.

    • lawsuited :

      There’s a really wide spectrum of Committed Relationship between “getting married” and “breaking up “. I would say that if breaking up now is even on the table, getting married probably isn’t. If he was really considering marrying you, the other alternatives would be “keep dating locally and revisit in 6 months” or “move in together” or “agree that we’re working towards marriage but not quite ready yet” and NOT breaking up. Similarly, if he is considering breaking up now, then the other alternative is probably “continue dating for a few months while I see what else is out there” and that seriously whomps.

      I’m really sorry he wasted your time.

      • Vicky Austin :

        Yes. If you are trying to decide between getting married and breaking up, you might want to ask yourself if you are actually a sitcom character.

    • Don’t try to convince him. He has all the data. Hopefully you live separately so you can give him space. I may consider telling him that you appreciate his honesty but would find it painful to be together while he makes this decision. Then disengage completely. Do not go to dinner with him, have sex with him, run errands with or for him, etc. He needs to know what it is like without you. Then, get yourself together to the extent possible and live your life. Be sure to continue or start to exercise. You need the endorphins and peace of mind it will deliver.

      Honestly, unlike others, I do not think this is a bad omen. And he does not sound like a terrible person to me. Tactless, perhaps. I’m older and many of my friends became engaged after breakups, periods of cooling off, etc. At the time, I was horrified and felt the same sentiments of the “if he doesn’t know, do you really want to marry him?” but I no longer feel that way. Instead, it seems to be a natural pattern of many men. Commitments can feel terrifying, and men can have a tendency to pull back before moving forward.

      Wishing you all the best. I hope things work out exactly the way you want!

      • Anonymous :

        +1. My now-husband and I started dating when we were very young. Before we got engaged, my husband struggled a little bit with the idea of not having “explored” more, having only dated one person seriously, etc. Although I understand open relationships work for some people, it wouldn’t work for either of us. We had been together for 6 years, and had lived together for 4, and I figured that if this was his deal-breaker, there wasn’t much reason to stay together until we were “ready” for marriage. So, the choice was to break up or get engaged. He ultimately decided he wanted to be together, and he could live without having dated other people. We got married, and we’ve been happy, and there’s never been a problem with cheating, monogamy, etc. (I honestly believe he would not cheat, and he understood that marriage was a final decision on whether he’d be with someone else.)

        It s*cked at the time. But I understand the general feeling that you should date multiple people, etc. Hypothetically, I’d probably be concerned if my own child married the person they met in high school or freshman year of college, and I’d probably encourage them to make sure they were OK with that.

      • Anonymous :

        Agree, agree, agree. I’ve seen this happen in my friends. They recognize the point is coming where they have to REALLY commit or get out, and they take a step back and assess what they really want. Whether they should do it or not, and whether they should tell the other person what’s going on…it seems like no uncommon behavior.

        Until he was back in town, he didn’t really have to decide anything. Now the time is here, and he knows a decision is on the table in a way it wasn’t before.

    • I am so sorry–this sounds so stressful and disappointing. I want to gently suggest to you that you really consider whether you were in a position to know him well enough to be deciding now whether you want to get married. I was long distance with someone for approximately the same ratio as you describe, and I thought I wanted to marry him. It turns out that the honeymoon feeling of long distance dating was masking some deep incompatibilities, and in retrospect I am deeply, deeply thankful that he broke it off after we moved in together and before we got engaged. I am not saying your situation is the same, but I am saying that this is a (painful) opportunity for you to consider, too, whether this person is actually your right match, whether you need more time to decide, and whether you want to stay together. Sending big hugs.

    • Anonymous :

      I was in a similar situation, and I say this kindly, but it may be that this is not the man for you. At the bare minimum, you deserve someone who isn’t considering breaking up with you. You should be with someone who has no reserviations, who is enthusiastic and all in. I didn’t really get that until I found someone who felt that way about me, and then I realized how much easier it was. Don’t settle.

  26. Glare Coating :

    Folks with glasses, any strong opinions about glare coatings? My new eye doc has several options, from the pricey Crizal stuff to cheap generics, and it’s not the sort of thing I can easily comparison shop.

    • I’ve never been given any options, other than coating or no coating. I think they do help, so I’d definitely pick one. Maybe the middle option, pricing-wise?

    • When I wore glasses, I always regretted not getting the nicer options. Usually I’m a middle of road person with things, but I would go huh end on glasses. They’re uncomfortable in the best of times, and those little upgrades made a big difference for me.

    • Anonymous :

      I wear my glasses a lot (allergy season lasts a long time where I live), so I always budget for all the upgrades. It not only helps me see, but it helps other people see me, and this makes me feel better about wearing glasses as much as I do.

    • I wear glasses every day and have a super strong prescription. I pay for the highest version of everything. It’s so, so awesome. Glasses technology is light years away from where it was even 15 years ago. Never regretted it. Anti-glare, hyperlenses (or whatever they are calling the thinner lenses these days), polished edges – all the way.

  27. I saw the post yesterday on jogger pants late, and for polished-looking pants that are great for running around but don’t look like you are in pajamas, I highly recommend the UA Storm Woven Pants. I have a pair in black and they are perfect for watching my kids’ soccer games and a good alternative to jeans: https://www.underarmour.com/en-us/womens-ua-storm-woven-pants/pcid1315116.

    If you want something more stretchy and breathable, but don’t care if it’s more relaxed looking, I also love these mesh joggers, which I wear at home most evenings: https://www.underarmour.com/en-us/favorite-mesh-jogger/pid1311381.

    • Ooh, thanks for the recommendations! I don’t find leggings all that comfortable (sorry, it’s true) and I’m always searching for stylish alternatives for running around to kid activities.

  28. I’m working with a junior associate who has a very casual, friendly style, but I’ve heard from some partners that it is getting on their nerves and they think he is not serious. How should I convey this to him in a helpful way?

  29. Was it important to your parents that you be as financially successful at them or ideally better off? Is it important to you for your kids?

    Have gotten to know a new friend in the last 2-3 years as we started in biglaw together though she left within 2 years for a social justice type of job. Hung out with her this weekend at a wedding and it was interesting that she was telling me when she got her biglaw job, her parents were telling her – you are NOT going to live in one of those $2400 midtown apartments, you need to live where you grew up within your community. And that they were SUPER disappointed that she even went to biglaw because in their opinions you get the big degrees and then go help people even if it means paycheck to paycheck yourself.

    I’ve honestly never heard this kind of thinking and esp not in an expensive city like NYC. Who would want to be paycheck to paycheck if they didn’t have to be and who’d aspire to that for their kids? Her parents are the same way so it’s not like they are handing her family money. And things seem tight for her now — tighter than they need to be if she had just stayed where she could make money — as she lamented that she needed to take a cab for the wedding and it was $50.

    Would you ever sell your own kids on this kind of life?

    • Anonymous :

      “Was it important to your parents that you be as financially successful at them or ideally better off? Is it important to you for your kids?”

      No. It was important to my parents that I be able to pay my own bills and not need money from them post-college, but beyond that they felt that I should choose what lifestyle I wanted and find a job that funded that lifestyle. I feel the same way about my kids.

    • Anonymous :

      Wouldn’t want my kids to live pay check to paycheck but would be super disappointed if they were wealthy and shallow a la Kardashians. My kids happiness is more important than prestige/money so that would be the main focus, and helping others secondary to that. Don’t care if they are a plumber or the president as long as they are happy and help others.

      ‘To those whom much is given, much is expected’ was pretty much how my Dad raised us. I was lucky to have an upper middle class family and I have an obligation to help others whether through the job I chose, or how I spend my money or how I spend my time (funding or volunteering with charities). I hope to raise my kids with the same values.

      • +1

        Lots of families value service and giving back. Mine does. My parents care that I am safe, secure, happy, fulfilled, and living an ethical life. Plus, living pay check to pay check is different for people with a safety net-nest egg from biglaw, parents who can help out of absolutely necessary, or people with advanced degrees who could make more money if they chose. Different than someone who has limited skills and has no choice but to live on the edge.

        OP, sometimes people choose careers for reasons other than the dollar amount on the checks. Just because you haven’t ever realized that doesn’t mean it’s not true. Also, just because it hurts your head to think that someone may not be as materialistic as you are doesn’t mean it’s not a valid choice.

    • Anonymous :

      Her family sounds like mine. My parents’ expectation of me was never that I would make a lot of money or even be particularly successful, but that I did something for my career that would help people. That’s as specific as they’ve ever been, just “help people.” I got fancy degrees and ended up in higher ed, where I’m very happy to be. I think they see this as fulfilling their goals for me, but not as much as my sister, who also got fancy degrees but lives paycheck to paycheck working for a nonprofit in a big city. From their perspective, I’m slumming it enough and helping people enough to be acceptable (I make 50k in a MCOL area and I’m part of several initiatives geared toward low income and first gen college students), but I’m still considered the wealthy child because I’m comfortable instead of struggling.

    • Senior Attorney :

      Honestly it never came up with my parents because I was always pretty driven to have a good income.

      My son is a psychotherapist and although I’d love for him to be as well-off as my husband and I are, I honestly don’t see it happening for a number of reasons, not least of which is that money isn’t a big motivator for him.

      The most important thing is to give back to the community in some way, which is a big deal in our family in every generation.

      • PhD in the mental health field :

        Indeed. A huge issue for those of us in mental health – even with a PhD as myself – is that there are a limited number of clients/patients we can see per day. Consequently, the only way to earn “more” or keep up with rising overhead is to raise my hourly fees. It’s simply not like other “doctor offices” who have other people who can add to billable hours for the doctor/owner/head. Nor is it similar to those who can see multiple clients/patients an hour (e.g., M.D., DDS., etc.).

    • Never too many shoes... :

      It might be my cultural upbringing that informs my thoughts on this (Greek, father immigrated to Canada, mother’s father also an immigrant) but my entire family (and all of their friends) were all about sacrificing their own comfort so that their kids could have better lives than they did. I had zero responsibilities at home and through school apart from studying and was not allowed to get a job during the school year, because it would detract from studies. My parents paid for undergrad away from home and, again, I did not have to work. They also paid for almost all of law school. Everything was so that I could have whatever in later life with no struggle.

      So the idea that someone’s parents would want *less* for them is completely alien to me, even if it was for the supposed betterment of others. That seems like a lot of baggage to foist onto your children – now this woman who clearly had the capacity to succeed in a very competitive and lucrative environment has to worry about cab fare? No thanks.

      • Anonymous :

        Omg – this. This is exactly how I grew up – Indian immigrant home. My parents did fine but wanted much more for their kids — one kid ended up in NYC finance, other in biglaw. Yeah sorry but if I want to grab a $50 cab or drop $100 on shopping or whatever, I’ve worked long and hard to have earned that right. And that’s what my parents want for me too — not sacrificing for some cause while depriving myself of the nicer things because to them – THEY worked hard to get us to these places and want to see us enjoy the fruits.

    • Anonymous :

      I am appalled that the poster and most of the commenters seem to perceive a “social justice” job as not being successful. This is what’s wrong with this country – we care about money, possessions, and prestige above all else.

      I work in a doing-good job and keep my lifestyle in a place where I don’t have to be paycheck to paycheck on my reasonably modest salary so that I can keep doing this work. I would honestly be disappointed in my child if she grew up to value salary/prestige over important and challenging work. If the field she loves happens to be lucrative (e.g. surgery), awesome, but if it’s all about the bottom line for her then I will feel like I have failed as a parent. I immigrated as an older child and grew up in an immigrant community FWIW.

    • Anonymous :

      My parents were both special education teachers at inner-city public schools. They always stressed the importance of education and of service to others. They never said they expected us to take public service jobs and certainly want us to be able to pay our bills, etc. Now I am a career public defender and my sister is a special education teacher. Probably not a coincidence.

    • Coach Laura :

      I have always wanted my kids to be successful *by their own definition* and would never tell them either as kids or now as adults how I think they should live their lives. When they were growing up, I only said that they needed to live up to their potential and was happy to give advice but not dictate. Both will probably be doctors and high-earners but it’s more important to me that they are happy and doing things that they think are important and be contributing members of society.

      “Was it important to your parents that you be as financially successful at them or ideally better off? Is it important to you for your kids?” I’ve known people whose parents wanted them to be better off and it made the kids feel like failures when they didn’t become doctors or lawyers. It seriously messed them up.

    • I would lay out the pros and cons of various paths to my children. I would also explain the “pros” they grew up with and would not have if they took different routes (eg., an academic parent home every summer), or “cons” that they might prefer to avoid.

      The decision-making process is more important to me than the specific end result.

  30. Tell me if I’m being unreasonable. My newish BF starts and finishes work several hours later than I do, such that the only time we can see each other during the week is for breakfast. BF will come over after I’ve gone to bed and spend the night. He wants me to wake him up in the morning so we can have breakfast together. He’s a heavy sleeper and sleeps right through my alarm.

    I don’t want to wake him up in the morning. It makes me uncomfortable (it feels mean to wake someone out of a deep sleep), it’s frustrating and time consuming, and I’m not his freaking mother it’s not my job to get him up. I told him if he wants to have breakfast together then he needs to get himself out of bed. He thinks I’m being ridiculous; he’s told me it’s ok so I shouldn’t feel uncomfortable, and while it’s not my job I should be willing to help him with this — that’s what a relationship is about. Now I’m feeling a little uncertain. Am I being unreasonably selfish here?

    • Anonymous :

      I don’t think it’s mothering him if he’s coming over to spend time with you and you give him a nudge when you wake up and tell him you’re getting up for breakfast.

      • One-nudge :

        +1 to one nudge or try a loving gentle wake-up– when I was a kid, i would love it when my dad would wake me up because he would gently rub my earlobe. It was such a sweet way of being woken up (especially compared to my mom’s yelling).

        I would not waste than a minute on attempting this and give you permission to continue on with your day after the one attempt

        • Are you me? I used to love my dad’s rubbing my back vs my mom’s yelling. Then I grew up and realized Dad woke me up once in a blue moon, usually on vacations or when he had a free morning in the summer, so of course he could take his time and have fun and let us leisurely wake up. Mom had to wake us up in the middle of winter while she screamed “If you miss the bus again so help me you will WALK to school!!!” while also getting herself ready for work and my siblings ready, fed, and on the bus. As a kid I never appreciated the difference.

          Anyway need to go call my Mom and say thanks again…

      • I guess I should’ve specified – when I finish getting ready, I’ll give him a peck on the cheek and tell him I’m going to have breakfast. He does. not. budge. I tried rubbing his back once and he still didn’t get up. He told me I should shake him and be a little louder.

        • Anonymous :

          Is he awake though? I would definitely sleep through a kiss on the cheek or a light rub and not notice.

          Unless you are finished getting ready at the exact same time everyday, I can see why setting an alarm doesn’t make sense. Maybe just be a bit louder? Are you using your normal speaking voice or more quietly saying good morning? Or if you are consistently ready at 7:45am or whatever, just ask him to set an alarm as it’s not working currently for you to wake him.

    • Anonymous :

      No you’re not being unreasonable. He’s being a child.

    • If he is sleeping at your place I don’t see the big deal in waking him in the morning. It can be more pleasant to be woken by a person than an alarm. I prefer when DH wakes me in the morning (assuming I’ve told him in advance that it’s ok to wake me at a certain time….i am NOT ok when he wakes me up earlier than he was supposed to). Personally i find it odd that this bothers you SO much, but you’re allowed to feel how you feel about it

    • Anonymous :

      I don’t think it’s unreasonable for him to expect you give him a little shake and say “hey, I’m having breakfast now.” You absolutely should not be standing over him for 10 minutes, cajoling him to get out of bed like a parent.

    • I can't even :

      You’re being ridiculous. He’s asking you to wake him up so you can eat/spend time together before you go to work. He’s trying to make your different schedules work. Of course he sleeps through YOUR alarm. Why does he need to be awake while you are showering and getting ready? He only needs to get up for breakfast with you. So wake him up at that point. Pour out some cereal bowls and enjoy the moment. Lord, some women want every.damn.thing.

      • Anonymous :

        That is amazingly rude to say that. If he’s there to be with her, He can get his own rear out of bed. She shouldn’t have to spend significant time doing so. If he needs a louder/different alarm clock, he can say so and bring it over.

        If she can tap him on the shoulder and say, hey, I’m having breakfast, great. But it sounds like he need major labor to get him our of bed if he can sleep through an alarm.

        • Anonymous :

          I think there must be people here who wake up differently. I can wake up at the usual time, but it is very hard to wake me up earlier than that (friends and family tell me; I don’t usually even form memories until after I’ve been dragged out of bed). Is this healthy or normal? Me and my sleep neurologist doubt it. Is it something that modern medicine cares about or is capable of treating? Also not really. But the kind of alarm that would wake me up would also wake up half the street, so it’s a pros/cons decision. It has definitely really annoyed my partner before.

    • Stop being difficult. How much effort for you really is it to poke him and say “hey, I’m eating breakfast, you wanna join?” If he then doesn’t get up, not your problem. He’s trying and you’re pushing him away because spending time with him involves the tiniest little effort from you? Don’t be a princess or you’ll be single real quick.

      • I’ve tried that but he doesn’t wake up. He said I should shake him and raise my voice and grab his… garden hose… because that’s sure to wake him up! I don’t feel comfortable doing all these things and I really don’t have the patience for it even if I could somehow get over my discomfort.

        Thanks for the condescension, though.

      • Anonymous :

        Really? You think it’s unreasonable for an adult woman to not want to have to drag an adult man out of bed in the mornings?? I don’t think I’m super picky about men and I don’t have many dealbreakers, but I would 100% dump a manchild who needed me to wake him up every morning like I’m his mommy. This man is presumably out of college, he needs to set an alarm and wake up on his own.

    • Anonymous :

      I’m surprised by some of these comments. I think it’s very weird that your “newish BF” is asking you to wake him up when he presumably knows he is a deep sleeper and that’s not an easy task. I would lay down the line and just say that I plan to have breakfast at X:00 and if you want to have breakfast with me get up then. Since you’ve already tried the gentle taps to wake him up and that’s not working, I think you’ve already been generous enough.

      • +1. I would resent having the responsibility to wake someone up. Is he cooking any of the breakfast? If you were relying on him to cook, would it still be your responsibility to wake him up so he can pull his end? Yeah, no. I also think it’s odd that this is being phrased as an ultimatum, i.e. if you want to eat with me, you have to put in the work of waking me up. It seems very manipulative. All the nice stories about dad waking people up – yes this is nice, but he was your DAD. It’s his job. It’s not the OP’s job to get an adult human out of bed on time for an activity he presumably wants to participate it. This is BS, OP, you should go with your gut.

    • Here’s the problem.

      Most adults don’t need “help with” waking up. I’m sure you’re not just chaffing at having to tap him on the shoulder, but why is this such an endeavor? That’s the problem.

  31. Paging Celia + Senior Attorney :

    Hosting that open-house in LA:

    Can you send me your email address or a burner email so I can send you the invite?
    Would love to meet you guys

  32. Anonymous :

    Ugh. I’ve always been an average to slightly chubby build. I recently lost a fairly dramatic amount of weight (25+ pounds) due to a serious medical condition and am now very slender. People won’t stop commenting on it. And I don’t meant an occasional “wow, you look great!” People are asking me all kinds of invasive questions about my diet and exercise routine and how I’ve lost the weight. My co-worker asked me this morning how often I go to the gym and when I said that I don’t really she said “Wow, I hate you.” Can we not?? I don’t want to discuss my health with my co-workers, but I really really want to say PLEASE don’t hate me, I have a serious health issue and I’m probably going to be on medication with intense side effects for the rest of my life.

    • anon for this. :

      I am so sorry. I went through a period where I lost weight due to severe depression when I wasn’t eating or sleeping for several months. It was absolutely awful but I was the thinnest I’ve ever been and a lot of people asked about it. With people I knew well enough I would wryly answer that if they wanted to stop eating and sleeping they could have the same results. It made a bad situation worse. You have my complete sympathy. It has made me basically never ask about anyone’s weight change unless they specifically bring it up with me. S*cks that some people (like me) needed to have a personal experience to really drive that home. Hugs.

    • It’s pretty normal for people to ask for fitness and health tips from someone who appears to have really had successful results. I wouldn’t stress about it too much, just say “yeah, recent health issues”, and most people will understand its a private issue and won’t pry. You can’t snap at people for asking a relatively innocuous question if they don’t know the background. If they pry once you clarify, then you can let them know its none of their business.

      • Anonymous :

        “It’s pretty normal for people to ask for fitness and health tips from someone who appears to have really had successful results.”
        It is? I wouldn’t ask anyone this unless they were talking about their weight loss like an accomplishment.

    • With you on hating people discussing my weight/body. If anyone has tips on how to politely shut down that kind of talk with very kind, well-meaning people, i’d love to hear it.

    • KonMari Addict :

      I’ve been very thin my whole life and people ask me about my eating habits and exercise all the time and when I eat something “unhealthy” or admit to being a couch potato, I get lots of the “I hate yous.” Excuse me? This kind of commentary just needs to stop. Being skinny is not an accomplishment, just as being fat is not a failure.

    • Yeah, this has happened to me so many times because I have a serious GI condition. It actually has made me much more aware of not commenting on people’s weight unless I *know* they’re trying to lose weight.

      I find it stops the comments to say “yes, it wasn’t intentional” or “yes, I’ve been very sick lately” or something along those lines. I only use this on people who say it more than once.

      But you will not believe how many people will say to me “wow, I wish I could have THAT diet” when I’ve lost significant amount of weight from being in the hospital NPO. SMH

  33. Things have been really stressful these past few weeks/months. Sometimes I can’t seem to calm down and get a grip. I have hours where I can’t focus and get so stressed out over work or the new man I’m seeing. I’m very impatient and get anxious about the future. Anyone relate or have any suggestions on how to calm down, focus, and not let things get to me so much?

    • Anonynony :

      Have you tried therapy? I think that would be really help you deal with the anxiety (and what sound like invasive thoughts). If that’s not a possibility, I’d read some articles about CBT and mindfulness and maybe download a couple apps that help you meditate (or relax – there are a lot of different versions depending on what works best for you).

      I’ve had PTSD and anxiety from medical trauma and it was therapy and then med mj (if that’s legal where you live and I’ve heard CBD oil helps too) that have helped. I’d talk to your regular doctor about this as well, they might be able to prescribe an anxiety or anti-depressant (or both) medication that could help.

      Don’t feel like you just have to cope with it though. I feel like when you’re going through periods like this, your brain will also tell you that there’s nothing you can do about it, but it’s not true. Sometimes you just need some outside perspective to help figure out how to manage it.

      Hope things improve though. Hugs.

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