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Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Saniyah Cabana Smocked Blouse

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Ted Baker London prints always make me happy, and who doesn’t need a little sunshine on a Monday morning? I like the peplum shape on this top, and the smocking just adds something a little different. A golden yellow like this one would look so pretty with navy. I would wear it with a navy pencil skirt to show off the shape, but it would also look great over a pair of dark-rinse jeans in a more casual office.

The top is $209 and available in Ted Baker sizes 0–5 (roughly 0–14). Saniyah Cabana Smocked Blouse

Two more affordable options are from 1.State for $89 (sizes S–XL) and Eloquii for $79.95 (sizes 14–28).

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Sales of note for 3/21/25:

  • Nordstrom – Spring sale, up to 50% off: Free People, AllSaints, AG, and more
  • Ann Taylor – 25% off suiting + 25% off tops & sweaters + extra 50% off sale
  • Banana Republic Factory – 40% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – $39+ dresses & jumpsuits + up to 50% off everything else
  • J.Crew – 25% off select linen & cashmere + up to 50% off select styles + extra 40% off sale
  • J.Crew Factory – Friends & Family Sale: Extra 15% off your purchase + extra 50% off clearance + 50-60% off spring faves
  • M.M.LaFleur – Flash Sale: Get the Ultimate Jardigan for $198 on sale; use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – Buy 1 get 1 50% off everything, includes markdowns

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

525 Comments

  1. This is a long shot, but I am a (mostly non-practicing) lawyer hoping to pivot from reproductive rights to maternal health. Does anyone have any experience in this field who could give me some guidance for how to make the switch or direct me to a career coach familiar with it?

      2. The other side of reproductive rights? Representing doctors on forced c-section cases, etc.?

      3. Sorry, I wasn’t clear. I would like to do maternal health advocacy with the ultimate goal of helping to develop programs in hospital systems that better support maternal health. I do a mix of advocacy and business operations now and occasionally advise health centers on compliance strategy.

          1. I don’t want to out myself, but I started out as a litigator and then moved over to a sort of “jack of all trades” position. It IS great, but I’m ready for something new now. Just not sure how to find a second unicorn!

  2. I am on the hunt for some summer t-shirts and other casual mostly cotton, breathable tops. This seems like it should be straightforward but all of my tees end up getting little tiny holes where they hit the top of my jeans, and then quickly fall apart. Recommendations? I’m tired of my shirts just lasting a couple of months before falling apart. I’m also hiding a bit of a postpartum (is it postpartum several years later?) tummy so non-clingy preferred. Thanks!

    1. Check the stitching on your jeans. I had the same thing and noticed the threads around the button area had snaggy ends that were catching on my shirts. (It looked like the thread ends were melted – perhaps the manufacturer cuts them with heat so they melt and don’t fray?)

      Anyhow, I took a nail file and smoothed those rough ends and my shirts last so much longer now.

    2. My favorite cotton t-shirts are the cuyana t-shirts. They are super soft, lightweight, hold their shape, and wash well.

    3. Also, how do you wash them? If you wash and throw t shirts in a hot dryer after every wearing, they’re not going to stay nice, no matter what quality you start with.

      Cold water wash and hang dry. I have t shirts from Old Navy that have lasted years.

      1. +1 on this. I wash all of my clothing in cold water & hang it in a drying rack. Only way that they don’t shrink for me or fade quickly.

      1. I have found that Old Navy is surprising durable for the $. Like I have passed items down to my older daughter now that she has gotten to be my height. I have yet to wear any of their stuff out and have a fleece from the mid-90s still.

    6. I like the ones from Banana Republic that are at least partially linen. They’re light but not clingy. I hang them to dry and they last pretty well.

    7. Responding late, but in case you are still reading, my favorite t-shirts are from ll bean. the pima cotton ones are very smooth, last through multiple washings (i wash cold and dry normal), and fit well. they come in different styles. i have 3 of them that i’ve been wearing for over 3 years.

        1. Hard to say because I live in a climate where it’s cold all the time, but they are made out of 100% cotton so breathable.

    8. late to the party, but Elegantees makes the best t shirts ever. So soft, not clingy at all, very put together for a t-shirt.

  3. good morning! Does anyone have recommendations for a graduation gift for a 24 year old woman graduating from a masters program? I’m thinking in the $200-300 range.

    1. Gift card to a store they could buy professional clothes + a nice leather padfolio.

      1. Caveat to this lovely idea is that padfolio use depends on the profession! In tech we don’t use them. I agree on a gift card for clothes, though make sure you tailor ‘professional clothes’ to the profession. (Mine are jeans and elevated tees.)

    2. if she has an iPhone, AirPods Pro — sooooo much more comfortable than the “regular” AirPods, and the noise cancelling vs. transparency option is really nice. I was enjoying them pre-lockdown but they’ve become quarantine MVPs thanks to all the conference calls.

      1. Yep – this would be a lovely gift. If she already has them, it’s still a nice gift she’ll appreciate, and she can always return them. Maybe buy them from Target or something so her store credit is more widely applicable if she has to return them.

    5. A Lo and Sons or another versatile, light bag if she doesn’t have a good work bag.
      AirPod Pros are another good idea- noise canceling is one of those things you don’t realize is amazing until you have it.
      A Kindle if she’s a reader.

  4. At the beginning of this crisis, I reconnected with a friend/crush and we’ve been emailing back and forth pretty frequently. It’s been mostly friendly, but slightly flirty, and always makes me feel better.

    Well, in his weekend email he shared a supposedly funny interaction with someone from a dating site, so I guess that’s how he’s spending his time in quarantine. I know this is a small drop in the ocean of real suffering, but I’m bummed, as hearing from him and hoping things might develop has been one of the only bright spots in my life right now. I guess when I write back I’ll just do so as if I always assumed we were strictly friends.

    1. I’m sorry, that sucks. This might be an unpopular opinion but I think you should stop talking to him. You wanted more than friendship and being friends with him is only going to cause you pain and make it harder to get over him.

      1. I agree with this. Trying to be friends with somebody with whom you really want to be more than friends is not something that leads to anything good.

    2. I personally would express my disappointment and be straightforward about having feelings for him. Because if you’re not going to be happy with just being friends, then why pretend? Are you going to keep talking to him at the same frequency while just being friends and listen to his dating stories? That seems like torture to me.

      1. It’s a good question. We do have really interesting conversations and he leads an interesting life and is supportive of the things I do in my life…all of which I appreciate and would be sad to lose. But yes, it might end up being torture…

      1. A couple years ago when we first met it was on a dating site…he ended up dating someone else, and then I did, but we kept in touch beyond the point where we were dating.

    4. Soooo he was supposed to know you were interested in him – even though all you’ve been doing is flirting over email – and stop dating other people? Girl, think about this logically. That doesn’t make sense. Why, if you’re not even officially dating this person, would he not date other people, even if he is interested in you?

      Most men are not like most women, who will drop the very idea of dating other people once they meet someone they are even moderately interested in who demonstrates some interest in them. I saw this so much when I was younger and my friends and I were dating: my friends and roommates would get interested in a guy and focus their energy and attention on them to the point that they were mentally planning weddings before they’d even gone on a date with the dude they were fixated on. What? Why? Until you are dating, you are just friends. Until you are officially exclusive, both of you should date other people. I have seen soooooo many women tank burgeoning relationships by acting after two dates like the proposal is just around the corner and it’s time to start picking out china patterns. No. Dating is all about staying loose; getting too invested too fast is a recipe for choking the life out of a relationship that could actually go somewhere if given some breathing room.

      Your friend was not going to sit around wondering whether you like him and hoping one day you would make a move. And honestly you should not have been doing that either. If you are interested in this guy and want to take things to the next level, make a move. Say something. See if the interest is reciprocated. His being on dating sites doesn’t mean he’s not interested in you, it means he is bored, or he is looking around to see what’s out there, or, or, or. Also, YOU should be on some dating sites talking to other people. When you lock yourself down to someone YOU ARE NOT EVEN DATING it is way too easy to get overly invested too soon and lose sight of the big picture. Which is that your interest in this man does not mean he will be a good partner for you. If you can’t get some appropriate perspective on this I would stop emailing him.

      1. No one is saying it’s a bad sign that he’s on dating sites. But he’s doing a lot more than just being on the sites – he’s telling her he’s on them and even sending her “funny” messages he’s exchanging with other women. I’m 35 and have dated quite a bit online and off and whenever a man has talked to me about other women he has romantic involvement with, it’s been a clear signal he has no interest in being anything other than friends with me. The one exception to this is that married men talk about their wives negatively to women they’re interested in, so the potential mistress won’t feel like she’s breaking up a marriage. But this is obviously not that.

    5. Did he say he’s dating this other person, or just that he went on a virtual date or something? If he’s spending quarantine looking for a person to date it seems like a great time . . .

      1. None of the above, just a screenshot of a chat with someone who said some weird stuff to him. Definitely not serious but if he were interested in me I doubt he’d be showing me chats he was having with other women. :(

        1. Your instincts are right. I think if this were an old college friend it would be possible that he was interested in you, and just too shy/unsure of your feelings to mention it directly, and sending you the chat from the dating site could be a (kind of immature) way of sussing out your feelings. But if this is someone you connected with initially on a dating site, he wouldn’t have any reason to hide his feelings, and I think sending you his chats with other women is a clear way of communicating that he’s not interested in more than friendship. I would move on. Sorry.

          1. I tend to agree with this. The context being that you initially met on a dating site means that there’s no taboo around the concept of you two dating. He’s more like an ex than an old friend in this sense.

        2. “Definitely not serious but if he were interested in me I doubt he’d be showing me chats he was having with other women. :(”

          Totally untrue. Think about this from his perspective, not just your own. He doesn’t even know if you’re interested in him! You two are not even dating! What motivation does he have NOT to be on dating sites? If he thinks you two are just friends, and you haven’t tried to move things forward, why wouldn’t he share something funny with you – even if it is something from a dating site?

          1. hmmmmm interesting. I guess since he was the first one to date someone else initially a couple years ago, maybe I still feel a little romantically rejected or am waiting for him to make the first move.

            I guess I feel like it should be obvious that I’m interested in him…but maybe it isn’t? Argh…

          2. “I guess I feel like it should be obvious that I’m interested in him…but maybe it isn’t? Argh…”

            I know it seems that way. But it’s not that way. Some people (it’s not just guys) are not good at reading between the lines. You have to more or less explicitly state your interest. Until you do that and either hear back, I’m into you also and you can progress from that point, or get outright rejected, you will stay in this nebulous friendzone space making yourself miserable. I agree with the other poster on the thread that sometimes people (again, it’s not just guys) will talk about dating other people to see if it prompts their friend to make a move. I think you need to make a move and see what happens.

          3. I think this could be true if he were actually an old platonic friend, but he isn’t. They met on a dating site. I wouldn’t really call someone I met on a dating site who rejected me romantically an “old friend” and I think OP’s use of that term is throwing people off.

          4. I disagree with anon at 10:04. In general, if A has never even thought about whether B might be interested in them, it’s because A is not interested in B and therefore doesn’t care to know. An interested person will be studiously looking for signs and dropping hints.

          5. I disagree with Monday, because I am one of the people described by anon at 10:04. For reasons, I have very low self confidence in the dating world, which isn’t obvious to people because I have self confidence in other contexts and hide it decently well. Unless I guy makes absolutely clear that he is interested with words, I can complete rationalize any actions on his part to be something else. There have been multiple times in my life when my friends were absolutely convinced that a male friend was interested in me, and I 100% was convinced the opposite despite my looking for signs. Turns out, my friends were right each of those times. But I didn’t feel it/believe it until the guy made a move by expressly stating that he liked me or by asking me out on a clear date.

          6. But were those guys telling you about the other women they were seeing? I get being shy, but shy guys who are crushing on their female friend aren’t telling her about their silly text exchanges with other women they’re dating. Also I think the fact that the guys did eventually make a clear move kind of proves our point – a guy who likes you WILL pursue you, no matter how shy and awkward he is.

        3. My personal view is that a guy who wants to date you will not share dating stories with you, but I know not everyone has that perspective.

          1. I thought that was a pretty universal perspective. I’m surprised to see people say otherwise. Don’t get me wrong, I tried to convince myself many times in my teens and 20s that guys who talked to me about other girls could still possibly be interested in me, but I was wrong every single time. Guys who are interested in you will show you they’re interested, and talking about dating other girls is the opposite of that. My husband is very shy and even he managed to make his interest clear pretty much immediately. This is the whole premise of He’s Just Not That Into You.

          2. I agree as well. If he’s dating other people and somehow tangentially mentions that, it’s a different beast than actually sending a screenshot of a conversation from a dating app, in my opinion. It’s fine for him to be dating, of course (as it’s fine for you to be dating!), but sending the screenshot would indicate to me that he’s not interested in dating right now. Or worse, that he was trying to make you jealous or something. Every guy who I have to analyze whether he is interested in me turns out to not be interested. Personally, I would stop talking to him because I’d also be bummed. It does hurt to find out that a guy isn’t interested or as interested.

          3. I agree. Somebody who wants to date you is going to move heaven and earth to date you, and there will be no room for uncertainty.

        4. Does he even know you’re an option? I mean shut it down now if you want, making a ton of assumptions you’ve done no work to verify. But I’d at least tell him you’ve got feelings for him.

    6. I am in the same situation, he expressed interest in being more than friends. We keep in touch regularly via video-calls and texts. If you have feelings for him, let him know and do not assume that he will figure it out magically. If he does not feel the same way, then at least you will know. You can decide whether you want friendship or not, in your case it seems friendship would hurt you.

    7. Some guys say stuff like this to test the waters. Maybe he’s unsure where you two stand and this was his (indirect and a little immature) way to see how you’d react. I’d probably shoot back with something like, Oh man dating sucks! If only we both knew someone fun and cool and cute that we like talking to (winky face).

      1. +1 – many years ago, I loved someone who it turned out had loved me too but thought I was “disinterested” because I was “always” seemingly dating someone else. We came to this realization too late for that particular romance, but give this one a shot! I think you’ve got to say something and I love the language above

        1. Eh I mean I’m all for being direct but you can ease into it with some flirtatiousness. More flies with honey, etc. You can’t come at a guy with, “I’m disappointed that you’re talking to me about other girls because I like you,” because that sounds negative, and who wants to date someone who’s already mad at them? You’re communicating a happy thing – you like him! – so you’ve got to find a happy way to pitch it.

          1. ?
            I just didn’t think this: “Oh man dating sucks! If only we both knew someone fun and cool and cute that we like talking to (winky face).” was direct enough, given what she wants and the long path this has gone down already. I could easily see him laughing that comment off – maybe acting like it was a joke, since there’s no real question or statement involved – and really not resolving anything.
            It’s not like the only alternative to this is to then go at it negative, which I agree would also not be good? There are a world of other options between those two things.

    8. Men who are interested in you let you know they are interested in dating you. They pursue you. They do not share funny dating messages with another girl with you. If he is immature enough to drop this to you as “testing the waters” conversation then GIRL, you don’t want this man. He is incapable of communicating like an adult. Just stop talking to him. You can spend your (even quarantine) time better than this.

        1. I got this from you SA, when I went through a terrible break up and had to do dating apps for the first time at age 30. You. are. so. right. I’m in a relationship now with someone who NEVER, from moment one, left me wondering if he wanted me.

      2. I think this really depends on the ages of the parties involved. If you’re 40? Yeah, no, this isn’t going to fly. I also think we need to be careful not to project expectations of older men onto 20 somethings.

        1. 20 somethings are adults. Adult men should be capable of communicating, just like adult women. There are adult relationships, not high school teenage stuff.

    9. I think your only choice here is to be direct. I don’t like how women “support” other women by coming up with a long list of reasons a guy may really be interested in you but is not taking any actions to communicate that. It just prolongs false hopes.

      Generally, if he’s interested, you will know it. But the only way to truly find out is to ask. The best way to ask is to tell him that you are interested in him and see if he reciprocates.

      1. I agree here. Some men are shy, but most are very likely to pursue you like a dog after a meaty bone if you give them any hint that you are interested and available. It does not pay, if you are interested in him, to be coy, as men will think that you are unavailable. You do NOT have to put yourself at risk by telling him that you will pull your panties down for him if he dates you. You do have to give him indications that if he pursues you, there will be light at the end of the tunnel for him. There’s a difference. That way, he knows to follow your lead, and if he plays his cards right, he will hit the jackpot (i.e. you). The men I know are very direct, and they go right for it, sometimes too fast. So if you are not interested in letting a schlub pursue you, just say so. Here, you are interested, so make sure to say so, but not in a way that makes you look to desperate.

    10. I wouldn’t assume he’s not interested. This sounds like something I would have done as a way of forcing a conversation/seeing how they would react. It’s helpful because it gives them a chance to express interest or define the relationship: “I thought I was your only tinder knight in shining armor *crying face*” and also gives me a chance to gauge their attachment style– are they unusually jealous/overprotective despite having no Relationship with me? Since we’re in lockdown, it is probably more difficult than usual to progress the relationship or force that kind of a conversation (since you can’t just kiss them goodnight at the end of a date to signify interest)

      I would respond with gentle flirting/teasing along the lines of “I’m not keeping you entertained enough?” <– signifies your interest in a lighthearted way.

    11. So, I love other people’s dating stories, including people I am interested in. I like hearing about the wacky stuff people encounter on dating sites even if I am in the early stages of dating them. Now, I suppose the difference is that I specifically ask about their bad experiences vs. having them volunteer it up, but I wouldn’t care if someone did unless we had a specific conversation about being exclusive. I assume we are dating other people or at least allowed to until there is a conversation about being exclusive.

    12. Sorry, He is just not that into you. Cut it off. If he wanted you he’d go after you. That’s what men do.

  5. The print of the blouse is lovely, but I’m not a big fan of the overall aesthetic. A high price point, but looks like it could easily have come from NY & Company/Express.

    It’s so hard to find nice work-appropriate blouses at a reasonable price point right now that don’t have poofed sleeves/are cropped/ruched in strange places. Sigh-small problems in the grand scheme of things.

    1. I think it would perhaps look good with something other than what looks like mom-jeans-cut khakis made out of tan sheeting material. Like I had those as “painters pants” in 1985 or so?

      Curious also as to how this would look on someone who regularly enjoys her carbs (and can I just say: intuitive eating on me would likely be a cluster and then some; like “I’ll have the appetizer and an entre for lunch and dinner and that key lime pie looks lovely and how about a margarita?”

    2. Pretty pick! I don’t happen to fit into this brand, I found it short waisted. So if you fit into Biden, this might work.

  6. Construction/Lifestyle/Relationship question: Short version – asking about a screened porch.

    We have a screened in porch with a deck above that needs to be replaced. The screened porch is right off our living room and it’s been in bad shape for a couple years, so it’s mainly used to store kid backyard toys. The deck/balcony has access from the Master bedroom, but we’ve never really been able to use it because it wasn’t truly ‘finished’.

    Well, it’s happening… and now my husband and I are finalizing what to do. Caveat is that I’m married to an engineer and sometimes he asks me ‘what I want’ but it’s really ‘choose this thing that I’ve really researched and am super committed to’.

    Here’s what I know I want: I want a deck off my master bedroom where I can lay on a chaise lounge and listen to the peaceful sounds of silence at the end of the night. Other questions my spouse wants to know: Do we want full screened panels or just half panels with solid bottom? Do we want to be able to switch these out for glass (we live in the northeast, I don’t know how much we would use it?), what do we want for flooring on the lower level (currently it’s an old school flagstone), and do we want to switch out the access from the house to a french door (note: this would require a lot of brickwork, moving multiple doors and windows and I don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze).

    Has anyone done this and is just totally THRILLED with what they did? Conversely, anyone have something they hate about their screen porch setup?

    1. For screened in porch, IMO I would have full screen panels that could be switched out for glass (or just removed in the winter). I wouldn’t change the existing flooring unless you need to, I love the old flagstones! HOWEVER if you wanted to spend a ton of money, you could put in radiant heat under the porch floors which, with glass panels, would let you use it in the winter

      Do you mean the current access to the screened porch on the first floor is one door and you would have to blow out the brick wall in order to put in french doors? If so I agree, not worth it, just keep the one door.

      1. Yes! Access is a single door with glass panes, then there is a double set of windows that look out onto the screened area.

        I like the flagstones too… Husband doesn’t but I don’t even think we’ll notice once the other stuff is done.

    2. The one thing I would want is a truly old-fashioned screen door from the porch to the yard, the kind on a spring that swings open with a creak and shuts with a bang. That would make me happy.

      1. That’s what I have and it does make me happy! The sound of that door swinging shut always makes me smile.

        1. What a lovely sensory memory. Actually, the door is a Thing because literally 2 days after we spent all our $$ buying this lovely home, my husband broke the bottom panel off the door… and it’s never been able to be fully repaired and we’ve kept saying ‘Oh, we’re replacing that whole thing anyway’… and it has been annoying me for the 6? 7? years we’ve lived here.

    3. I’m not sure if this is what you’re describing exactly with the glass, but we have a porch/sunroom where the windows are glass and fully close but have a screened layer behind the glass. You can then go around and open up all the windows and it’s a screened porch. 100% I will never be without these again, if we buy a house with a regular screened porch, I’d look to convert. It is AMAZING! Basically, the #1 advantage is that you can close them when not in use and your porch doesn’t get filthily with dirt/dust/pollen (especially POLLEN!). It also means you can use more “regular” furniture out there instead of outdoor-only furniture. We put a daybed in with crisp white linen bedding so we can just throw it in the washer and wipe down the wooden frame. It’s perfect for lounging. As for the floor, we have porcelain faux-wood tile. It looks great. Ours is a weathered barn gray, but it looks amazing and the tile is really durable for the indoor/outdoor use (if our dog tracks in mud, it’s super easy to clean). And I think it’s not a super expensive option compared to a natural stone.

      1. May I ask what climate you’re in? I love the idea of that tile, but I worry the winters here might get too cold.

        1. I’m in the South, and with the climate here, there’s only a few months in the deepest winter we can’t use the room. Most of the time, it’s fine enough on it’s own, or even with the door open to the rest of the house for heating/cooling (I guess you’re not supposed to do that, but it works fine for me if I’m going to be out there). And of course, it’s lovely with the windows open when it’s everything except freezing cold or sweltering. I don’t notice the tile being a problem in the cooler weather, but you could always throw a rug on top of it.

      2. Do you have a link to a photo of what these windows look like? We have something similar, but I hate it because I feel like you don’t really get the breezy enjoyment of a screened porch and the windows are a pain to crank open and shut, but I’d love to see some examples of how this works well!

        1. I think my windows are OKNA Sliding Window (they’re definitely vinyl). They don’t crank, they slide left to right so one panel covers the other panel, and the window screen is fully exposed. I can open them with one hand, they’re very easy to operate. So I guess you’re technically only getting 1/2 screened porch because of how the panels overlap, but with an overhead fan, there’s plenty of airflow. Most of the time I’ll only open the windows at the front and back of the room to create a cross breeze.

    4. I am in the SEUS and am going with screens on the deck that is almost done being rebuilt. It can be cold/damp so we added a fire place (fire code was fun with figuring how to orient the fireplace & chimney). We know people who opted for electric heaters ($$$ power bill) but I refused to have a wood-burning fireplace inside the house and the deck was the compromise. Love the smell. Hate the particulates.

      1. That sounds lovely! I lobbied for a hot tub in there and was outvoted. Rather, I got ‘Engineered’ which involves being brought down to the basement, shown the circuit breaker and having somebody enthusiastically explain to you that we would need a huge electrical project to be done to accommodate the power draw, and at that point, should we just rewire half the house and… Yeah, I laughed and gave up.

        1. Deck is angled for run-off (b/c rainy) and so we can hose it off (b/c pollen). My guess is we won’t clean it as much as we should. Which is true for most things and not a design defect.

    5. For the porch, do you anticipate the kids banging on the bottom? That would make a difference to me. Our screened in porch is fully screened, but the bottom 3 feet or so still has vertical deck-type boards and a ledge going around the top of them. I’d say they’re 1×1 spaced about every three inches. It is practical and okay from an aesthetic perspective. It is a very common design in our area of the Midwest. Provides some safety but still feels open. Most screened in porches around here are elevated at least a few feet and sometimes above a walk out patio from the basement, so safety is an issue.

      1. This is a great point. Ours is about 6 inches off the ground, but… the kids banging is noted in terms of repairs.

    6. my parents’ house (the house i grew up in) had a screened in porch right off the family room that was fully screened, that was then connected to the larger deck. they live outside of DC in Maryland and depending on weather we would eat outside in the porch from April/May-October. a few years it was even warm enough to have Thanksgiving appetizers in there. we loved it! we had a ceiling fan so even when it got hot it was still pleasant to eat outdoors. and so much better to eat without bugs. It was already there when we moved in, and my parents like it so much that a few years ago they needed to update it and ended up making in larger. some of my parents friends like it so much, that they also had one built at their house.

    7. How about half a French door, i.e. a single, panel glass door. I did a reno several years ago and used a wooden French door to a back porch, and half of one for the kitchen entry. They were sold as indoor doors and were fully made of wood and glass. I painted them with exterior oil paint, several coats, and they were still in perfect shape when I sold the house ten years later. The kitchen one faced in the direction of the prevailing winds and was onto a small, entry-type porch, so it got the full brunt of wind and rain. It was fine.

    8. Definitely get both screens and windows that can be closed. I have a screened porch that is the best feature of my house, and I can use it a bit earlier in the spring and later in the fall (a few times as late as November, if it was sunny) with the windows up. Mine are old and difficult to move up and down, so I basically only move them twice a year, but new ones should be better.

      I would not have the screens go down to the floor, to keep kids and dogs or cats (if you have them) from pushing out or tearing up the screens. In fact, on my porch I have the windows opened at the top instead of the bottom of the window frames, so the first 1/3 is the frame of the porch, the middle 1/3 is glass/plexiglass and the top 1/3 is the screen – that way my son’s high-energy Belgian Malinois can watch dog TV without going through a screen to get after a squirrel or rabbit in the years.

    9. I would do half panels with solid bottom – seems safer with kids and pets (yours and in case you sell the house one day). That’s a dream porch project, enjoy!

    1. This is dark but that was exactly my thought, then I came here
      I’m preparing a wishlist

    2. They’re filing for chapter 11 bankruptcy, which allows them to restructure their debt. Chapter 7 would be going-out-business. They’ve already been having pretty good sales though!

    3. I confess I just did a Madewell stock up. I really like the current styles from them and after bankruptcy, assuming they emerge, there is no guarantee they will have the same design team.

    4. Prepare also for late shipping! Was going to order jeans from the Madewell sale but their ship date is 8/31/20.

  8. I posted last week about my brother and sister in law having a late term pregnancy loss. I am planning to have flowers delivered, but need a quick sanity check on my etiquette. The father (brother in law) is/was Jewish. The mother (sister in law) is not. They are not actively practicing and they raise their current child in a fairly secular manner. The baby’s funeral service will be performed by a Rabbi. From what I can tell, they really only passively celebrate high holidays with my parents in law.
    I know traditionally, you do not send flowers for a Jewish funeral, but because the mom is not Jewish and they are not really practicing, is it ok if I send them to their house in this case? I don’t want to offend anyone, but it feels like the right thing to do.
    We are having food sent as well, but the flowers are really for my sister in law.

    1. If they’re Jewish enough to have a rabbi doing the funeral, I would not send flowers. I’m sorry for your loss.

      1. I might consider sending flowers for mother’s day or the baby’s due date?

      2. At the risk of sounding ignorant, I didn’t know that sending flowers was not traditional for a Jewish funeral (I have Jewish friends, but have never been to a Jewish funeral). I learned something today. I do not intend to highjack this thread at all, but this spurred me to do some research online and I came across this: “There are some Jewish communities that believe the life cycle of flowers should not be interrupted or cut short in order to create floral arrangements for a funeral.” Rather beautiful sentiment.

        My sincere condolences again for your family’s loss OP. I wish you comfort and peace. I’m so sorry.

        1. I think it depends on the people. I agree that it’s not traditional to send flowers at Jewish funerals, but there are plenty of secular Jews who either don’t know that, or wouldn’t read anything into it other than “what a lovely gesture.” I think someone who would be offended is someone who is looking to be offended.

    3. I wouldn’t send flowers. Maybe send a plant at some point? The plant would theoretically be able to continue to grow/thrive vs. flowers which eventually wilt and die.

      1. (Wrote previous post about plant) That being said, I wouldn’t send any flowers/plants for the time being. Would only send a plant if you really felt compelled to send flowers, which aren’t appropriate in this circumstance (Jewish enough time have rabbi for funeral)

    4. I am so sorry for your family’s loss, OP.
      I would send food but not flowers now. But I would send “thinking of you” flowers in six weeks or so. After any loss, it is wonderful to know people are still thinking about you a bit down the road after the initial rush of sympathy.

      1. Flowers are really not something you send to grieving people in Jewish culture, even 6 weeks after the loss. It is a cultural thing, not a religious thing, so I don’t think the fact that they don’t go to temple very often is that relevant.

    5. In my experience, in situations like this – death or other major life events, people tend toward more religious, not less. Gently, if they’re Jewish enough to have a Rabbi officiating the funeral, I wouldn’t send flowers. I second another poster who suggested sending flowers on the due date – people tend to forget about tragedies and if I were them, I’d love knowing that you’re thinking about them and continuing to think of their baby.

    6. So different opinion, my husband is Jewish (raised conservative and we do high holy days and would have a Jewish funeral for his side), I’m not. His understanding is you don’t put flowers on the casket, and traditional gifts are food because of sitting Shiva. He wouldn’t be offended by getting a gift of flowers, especially where you’re not sitting Shiva, and as someone not raised with this tradition (ala your sister in law), I’d be really happiest to get flowers because they aren’t a hassle to deal with and they’ve always cheered me up. To play it safe, maybe wait a week so it’s not connected with the funeral, and all this with a “know your family/friends caveat.”

      1. PS – I’m coming at this from the perspective that two things are going on here, there’s the funeral for the baby and your SIL’s personal trauma from going through all that. For just a funeral, I’d be on team follow the tradition and skip the flowers, but for her own loss and pain that’s in addition to the loss, I think you can do something more/separate for her.

        1. +1

          I’m Jewish and fairly religious and agree with this reading of things. Even if I wouldn’t send flowers myself, receiving them would make me feel cared for, knowing the intent, and if she isn’t Jewish, then doubly so.

          Plus, in these times our regular options are even further limited and if anything we should err on the side of reaching out more, not less – take the opportunities you have, it is kind of you to be thinking of her.

      2. Right so this is why I’m so torn. I was not raised Jewish either, and if I were in my sister in law’s position, I would appreciate and expect them because it’s common for how I was raised. The service is this evening, and I’m sure we will have a better sense of things after that.
        My husband is very very lapsed-Jewish. As soon as he was old enough to make the decision, he completely left it all behind, so he is not helpful whatsoever in the etiquette and tradition advice.
        We are sending food, and I will probably leave the flowers alone for a bit. I think the due date was May 15 (though tbh I don’t remember exactly), so I’ll tentatively plan to send flowers then.
        My mother in law and I are fairly close, but of course she is grieving as well now, and I don’t want to bother her by asking if she thinks it is appropriate.
        Thanks for the advice everyone!

    7. my mother passed away in December. we are Jewish. some people sent flowers, more sent food. it is also very common to make a donation

    8. I’d skip the flowers regardless of religion and instead send a small item that she could keep. When I had my pregnancy loss, we weren’t in the mental space to care for them and then we had to throw them out when they died (both cut and potted). Did she name the baby? I’d send a bracelet with the initial(s) or a remembrance stone instead. Those are the types of items I appreciated then and continue to appreciate now.

      1. I didn’t comment the other day, but I lost a baby (stillborn at 40 weeks) and I do agree with this suggestion to send a small gift. A very small (fancy/expensive) stuffed animal is my go to. Some people gave me mementos I didn’t love and eventually tossed and some gave me things that became treasures, but somehow all those little physical pieces of evidence that my child existed meant the world to me.

    9. Hi- so sorry for your loss.

      FYI, the Jewish tradition is to plant a tree in Israel in memory of the deceased. The Jewish National Fund will send them a certificate. On jnf (dot) org, there is a link to plant trees.

    10. So sorry to hear this. If the mother is not Jewish, I see no issue with sending flowers. I’m mixed and the Jewish side of my family is fairly secular and we have received flowers and nobody has ever been offended. I would say it is more common to send a donation to a charity close to their heart (KinderMourn is a good option in this case) or send food, or a donation to plant a tree in Israel. But you are not going to go wrong by sending flowers.

  9. WWYD – Please help me settle this disagreement with my husband, or at least give me insights so that I can evaluate my own thoughts/feelings. Context: we live in the epicenter of COVID-19 – between Bergen and Essex counties in Northwest New Jersey.

    My MIL purchased two perishable items for me in her grocery delivery. I had intended to drive over and pick them up this past Sunday (contact-free, but my husband was like “oh maybe we’ll stand 10 feet apart and talk to her at the end of the driveway”). On Saturday (the night before), my BIL, SIL and their 4 children went to my MILs house and ate a meal together on backyard picnic table. The kids also ran around/played in the backyard for a few hours. I saw this documented on Instagram stories and pics.

    Here’s where my mind starts fictionalizing things – did anyone go inside to wash hands or use the bathroom? did they bring their own utensils? take their trash home? hug? Per Instagram, no one was wearing face coverings.

    BIL, SIL, and the four kids have not been social/physical distancing; three days prior to their outing at my MILs house, the kids all had pediatrician visits to test antibodies, and two days prior they had a camera crew over at their house to videotape a virtual dance retical for two of the kids. BIL has been going in to work twice weekly where he interfaces with school families around school technology support issues.

    I decided not to go to MILs to pick up perishable items. Husband deferred to me and we stayed home.

    Did I overreact?

    1. I would have gone, only because it seems like your BIL (etc.) have been doing this probably for a while and seem fine. Do they drive a bus / work in a nursing home? If not, picking up groceries seems to be no worse that going to the actual grocery store. You can mask and wash your hands, but this is basically picking up a to-go order from someone you know. I’d even add on distanced visiting.

    2. Is your concern that MIL may have caught something from BIL’s family? If so, I can’t see how she could pass it on to you during a no-contact pickup. You can go on her front porch, pick up the items, bring them back to your car, wipe them off/sanitize your hands if you’re extra concerned, and then just drive home, right? This doesn’t expose you in any way that I can see.

    3. Why are you still disagreeing with your husband about this? Decision is already made, you didn’t go. He can go if he still disagrees about this. I feel like you two are looking for a fight if you’re still fighting about this. Let it go. 2 perishable items are not worth this marital fight.

    4. I would have gone.

      whether you overreacted or not is really not for me to say. We’re all trying to find our way, and we’ll do it with different comfort levels.

      Probably the question you’ll need to ask is as your state moves into whatever phases of opening up it will move into, under whatever time schedule it will be, is under what circumstances will you again be OK being around your family, even from a distance? Is it merely time that will make the difference, or will you need to see some concrete indicators of some sort.

    5. Who cares what we think? You get to make your own choices. Personally I have never been worried about picking up items and would have done this no problem, worn a mask, and hand sanitized. If you’re not comfortable with it that’s also fine, you don’t have to! But I would avoid blaming anyone else.

    6. No, but don’t make this a thing. It’s already done and it’s not worth fighting over. You get to make your own choices and it was a reasonable one based on public guidance. Since you can’t control your family’s social distancing (or lack thereof), it might help you feel better to know that you and you alone are in control of your own adherence.

    7. In my opinion, yes, unless you or someone in your household is in a high-risk group. You say yourself that your mind was fictionalizing things. The kids were in the backyard. I don’t understand why you couldn’t pick up two grocery items on the other side of her house without making physical contact. How is this significantly more contact/exposure than having groceries delivered or going to the store yourself? We lost the containment battle months ago (before we even started really), and there is no way to reduce the risk of exposure to zero.

      That said, it doesn’t really matter if other people think you overreacted. You get to decide how much risk you want to take on.

      1. Info: Were the perishable items brought into her house, or were they left outside the house awaiting your pick-up from the moment that they were bought? It’s not clear to me, but perhaps I’m not following along properly.

          1. I was asking to gauge the reasonable chance of exposure. Of course you don’t lick your groceries.

    8. Every decision is so stressful now. I would not second guess yourself, just try to make the best decisions you can.

      1. I agree here. Some men are shy, but most are very likely to pursue you like a dog after a meaty bone if you give them any hint that you are interested and available. It does not pay, if you are interested in him, to be coy, as men will think that you are unavailable. You do NOT have to put yourself at risk by telling him that you will pull your panties down for him if he dates you. You do have to give him indications that if he pursues you, there will be light at the end of the tunnel for him. There’s a difference. That way, he knows to follow your lead, and if he plays his cards right, he will hit the jackpot (i.e. you). The men I know are very direct, and they go right for it, sometimes too fast. So if you are not interested in letting a schlub pursue you, just say so. Here, you are interested, so make sure to say so, but not in a way that makes you look to desperate.

    9. Threadjack – sorry – went to the pediatrician to test for antibodies? Is this a thing that’s available to anyone in some dr’s offices now?!?! I know about the at-home kits that are of sketchy reliability at the moment, but I have not heard of folks being able to get antibody tests as they desire at the dr’s office.

      2. Quest and LabCorp have antibody testing, someone told me that you can schedule your own appointments online.

      3. I keep getting emails from CityMD and other urgent-care places I’ve visited in NYC that they have both (regular) COVID testing and coronavirus antibody testing available if you need/want it.

        1. Yes until you need it. You must get a doctor’s note to get tested, and even if you text negative, you can pick up the virus tomorrow. As for antibody’s that at least means you have had it, or something like it, so you can have antibody’s and you could be immune to it (or not). Personaly, I would wait for a vaccine, makeing sure to social distance from people who are going to get sick from not doing so. FOOEY!

      4. The antibody tests that are out now are NOT sufficiently specific or sensitive – in the 70% range.

    10. I would have gone and put the perishable items in the car, waved hello or chatted from 10′ away and left. I would have taken whatever precautions to sanitize the items once home (wipe down with wipes, wash, etc).

      I’m not sure why your MIL’s potential exposure has to do with the items and your hesitation to go–wouldn’t you assume she’s infected and take all necessary precautions regardless?

    11. I’m in Bergen County so I understand the level of fear and chaos that you are experiencing. For those not in our area or other hot zones, we are still under SIP and a curfew. I have stopped counting my friends loved ones that have died from COVID-19 because there are too many to count. That said, I think your BIL/SIL sound reckless by not social distancing. But you can only control you. I would have done the same thing by not getting the perishable items.

      1. Thanks for this. I’m in a hot zone but was wondering if I’m being overly cautious about staying home since my friends/family outside of the area have a much different attitude. Then I looked at the numbers here and was properly horrified.

    12. I live exactly where you do (where Bergen, Passaic and Essex Counties intersect. I don’t think the groceries could possibly infect you but I’m sorry your relatives aren’t taking proper precautions.

  10. I’m wondering how people feel about the recent allegations against Joe Biden (by Tara Reade). I know this could easily devolve into nastiness, but am honestly curious about people’s good faith thoughts.

    Personally, I find it totally believable. Reade made contemporaneous reports, and it seems pretty consistent with his conduct and attitude (very cavalier about women’s bodily autonomy, awful toward Anita Hill, zero apologies for anything ever). My understanding is also that he won’t allow a search for her name in his senate records, with the reasoning being that…nothing would be there, and that other irrelevant documents (that don’t include her name) are classified.

    I am committed to voting against Trump no matter what, but I’m disgusted that both candidates are likely s3x offenders with a real lack of respect for women. (No, I am not equating their histories–just saying it’s a commonality.) I hear Democrats trotting out all the same defenses of him that were used for Kavanaugh (and others), with very little reflection. I can’t imagine actively campaigning for Biden, and I can’t picture myself explaining to any other voter why this should be excused. Right now I just see myself holding my nose and voting for him, no more.

    1. I believe her. And, sadly, I’m not surprised that it’s convenient for many to make excuses for him.

      1. Yes, so many powerful men in Washington DC take liberties with younger women and their bodie’s; look at Clinton and what he did with poor Monica Lewinsky. I cannot even fathom someone so important doing that to me with a cigar. TRIPLE FOOEY!

    2. I believe her and I’m not sure how actively I can campaign for Biden anymore. I had planned to campaign enthusiastically, but how much can women be expected to shut up and accept? Trump, Kavanaugh, Biden…

    3. “My understanding is also that he won’t allow a search for her name in his senate records, with the reasoning being that…nothing would be there, and that other irrelevant documents (that don’t include her name) are classified.”

      Reporting I listened to says the exact opposite. He said it’s an open book, nothing will be there.

      To be clear, her contemporaneous reports, according to her, do not allege assault.

      1. Really? I read a transcript of his interview by Mika Brzezinski and she kept asking if he would give this permission, and he kept answering (the above responses). He did NOT appear to give consent, he wanted to avoid answering this yes or no question.

        1. Biden called on the secretary of the Senate to ask the National Archives to produce any record of a complaint by Reade. He expanded on that statement in an interview on MSNBC’s Morning Joe, telling Mika Brzezinski that he would be happy to open any public records about allegations.

          1. But aren’t those different from his personnel records at the University of Delaware? Seems like that’s where any complaint would likely be.

          2. What? No. UD has nothing to do with it? Reade said herself she filed a complaint with the Senate office (that office has changed names now).

          4. I think the transcript is ambiguous because Biden first says something to the effect that he does have personnel records at UD, then clarifies that his personal records are at UD. I am not sure why UD would have Senate personnel records, so I don’t think any complaint would actually be there. As for searching the records for her name, if the records haven’t been digitized yet, that would be way more time-consuming than journalists would want you to think.

    4. I believe her and if I have to choose between two sex offenders, I’ll go with Biden over Trump. This is like the worst game of “would you rather.” I hope he chooses a stellar female VP.

      1. +1. A report I read over the weekend said the allegations were related to conduct that made her uncomfortable, not assault, and therefore she didn’t report it. Attitudes towards what is and isn’t acceptable in the workplace have changed so much in the past 5 years, as have women’s perspectives on reporting harassment and assault. I think there are very few white men over 50 who have NOT made a woman uncomfortable at work at some point. We have to decide how far back the metoo movement should go as attitudes were very different in 1993 vs 2020.

        Finally, Biden has done a lot for women over the course of his career even if he has been handsy at times. What has Trump done to improve the lives of women?

        1. Agree with all this. I don’t think all men over a certain age have assaulted women, but I think all men over a certain age have made women uncomfortable in the workplace (that includes my dad, btw).

      2. The “stellar female VP” idea does not comfort me at all. This female candidate will be asked about the allegations more often than he is, I suspect, and expected to paper over them to theoretically reassure us. She will not be allowed to speak critically about his behavior and will discourage everyone else from doing so too. This will supposedly be more credible coming from a woman, similar to how often s3x offense defendants strategically hire female attorneys to represent them.

      3. Meanwhile, you’ve got the party of rational science where their worst sin is that they get too woke at times, and you’ve got the party of Bible-thumpin’ yee-haws waving AK-47s at governors, headed by a certified lunatic narcissist who communicates via Twitter. It’s really a clear choice. Heck, even the Republicans are saying “if there had been something to this Biden accusation, we would have been all over it.”

    5. I believe her, and have loathed Biden since Anita Hill. He should have let corroborating witnesses come forward. That said, I am going to hold my nose and vote for him because we need to get the gross incompetence out of the White House, it is literally killing us. I made a Biden donation and a donation in the same amount to Times Up in his name.

    6. all of you “vote blue no matter who” people are garbage people. the left’s hypocrisy is absolutely sickening and the tara reade case is just one more example of that.

      1. I mean, I’m still going to vote blue no matter whom. At least Biden has his mental faculties. I’d rather vote for a sex offender who is not demented than one who can barely speak at a fourth-grade level.

        (And yes, worst game of would you rather I’ve ever played).

          1. Yeah, he has a stutter, isn’t super eloquent, and is prone to gaffes. So what? At least he doesn’t want us all to inject bleach.

          3. Slowing from age is different than narcissistic, egomaniacal, bat sh!t crazy. I think the bat sh!t crazy one is also well into dementia. I had to observe a close relative’s descent into dementia and the president reminds me of her when she was starting into the middling years of it.

          4. Yeah, Trump has always been crazy and racist and misogynistic, but if you watch old interviews he sounds much more intelligent. He can actually put a coherent sentence together and has a normal vocabulary. Now he calls everything “beautiful” and pretty much everything he says is a sentence fragment or incomplete thought. It’s pretty clear he’s had significant age-related decline.

          5. Anonymous, you seriously cannot believe Trump has his mental faculties. His narcissistic personality disorder is on full shining display. He doesn’t have the mental capacity to offer condolences / comfort to the country, as ALL previous presidents on both sides have always done at times of national crisis. He doesn’t have the capacity to shut up and let the scientists talk. His tweets are full of misspellings and he capitalizes nouns as though he is writing in German. People who have dealt with him in business uniformly hate him, as he was well known for stiffing people (I personally know 5 people he has stiffed, and I’m not even in the commercial real estate world). What on earth makes you support this man?

          6. @11:13-Yea, I heard an old interview of Trump (but not from that long ago-maybe 10 years?) not too long ago and it was honestly shocking how much more coherent he was. Apparently he could, at one time, actually string together a comprehensible sentence.

      2. Why is one allegation of sexual assault worse than a dozen or more allegations of sexual assault (including rape), which is what Trump has? Nothing hypocritical about voting for the person who has fewer sexual assault allegations.

      3. Must be nice to be white and think that this issue is big enough to risk 4 more years of Trump.

        1. +1 million. If in general, people decide they would rather not vote than vote for Biden, I do not want to hear any complaining about how terrible Trump is and how badly things are going from 2020-2025. I do not want to see handwringing teary posts about the next misogynist neo-Nazi jerk who gets nominated for the Supreme Court or put in charge of a cabinet office. To me, if you weigh some allegations and off-color comments from Biden against the thousands of *actual* terrible decisions Trump has made and the hundreds of millions of people *actually impacted* by those decisions, and you decide you’d rather not vote than vote for Biden, I’m done with you. You’re dead to me. Go look at some pictures of migrant kids housed in steel cages for 20 minutes (20 FULL minutes, no cheating) and THEN sing me a song about how true you are to your values, how Me Too matters more than anything, and how you just can’t in good conscience vote for Biden. Go rewatch 20 minutes of Kavanaugh’s confirmation hearing and then tell me you’re okay with getting another COUPLE of justices just.like.him. on the Supreme Court. Go ahead, I’ll wait here.

          Bernie is out of the race, y’all. Everyone is out of the race except Joe. The party has unified around Biden, for better or worse. You can choose to do something responsible or you can choose to be unbelievably selfish and serve your own “peace of mind” (whatever that means) rather than the country.

          1. +1. Well said. Unifying behind Biden is just like wearing a mask. We do it for the good of everyone, even if it’s slightly itchy or uncomfortable or isn’t what we would have chosen to wear, because that’s how people of character behave.

        2. Yes, Trump is terrible. Most of us agree on that and I, for one, will never vote for Trump and as much as it pains me, I think I will ultimately go back to enthusiastically(ish) campaigning for Biden. I don’t, however, think it’s a good idea to downplay the seriousness of sexual assault. What kind of world do we live in where we’re forced to pretend like sexual assault is not a voting issue? It’s okay for people to pause and reflect on what it means for their voting choices. It’s okay for women to be very, very angry. Women are not a privileged class and being a white woman does not protect you from the risk of sexual assault (or the lingering trauma which may forever influence your willingness to vote for a sex offender).

          1. No one is saying that sexual assault is not serious. What people are saying is that even if we 100% believe Reade, one case of sexual assault candidate is running against multiple cases of sexual assault candidate who thinks science is garbage and people threatening governors with guns are ‘very good people’. Is it awful that these are the two people the country has put forward? Absolutely. But this is the reality we are in and one option is way way way worse than the other.

          2. Yeah, I agree with you, but I think we veer dangerously close to invalidating women’s experiences when we say things like “must be nice to be able to think this is a big issue…” There are better ways to phrase it, like you did.

        3. I think Biden could have done this; after all they were both much younger back then, she was innocent, and Biden probably fancied himself as a lady-killer, Dad says. Dad also reminded me that Biden lived in the era of the Kennedy’s, where they all routinely took young women back to their apartements and to bed with them, and not for sleeping. Some were very famous, like Marilyn Monroe; others, not so famous, like the woman who drowned when Ted Kennedy’s car went over a bridge in Cape Cod. But even so, between Biden and Trump, we are ready for a change, and even if Biden did do that stuff with her, the VP will be a woman, and we all need a woman as VP, and 4 years from now, she could be president!!!! RBG will be so proud to see that day! Grandma Trudy says lets hope she’s here to see it!!!!!! YAY!!!!!

      4. But what’s the alternative? I’m not a Dem & I despise Biden but Trump has got to go. So what options does that leave me with?

        To be perfectly honest (and please spare me the pearl clutching) I hope Biden picks an awesome VP then yeets the F off of this little blue marble. That is my best case scenario for this exceptionally sh*tty hand we’ve been dealt.

      5. So… we should vote for Trump? I don’t understand your point. I think people are choosing the lesser of two evils, which is what a lot of Trump voters said they were doing when they refused to vote for Hillary.

        1. Yup, this. And even if you’re a single issue voter solely on allegations of sexual misconduct, I don’t know how you chose Trump over Biden in this case…

          1. This. SO MUCH this. Even if sexual misconduct is your only issue then Biden is still your best vote.

            Trump has so many more credible accusations over a much longer period of time and has been caught on tape making deeply troubling remarks about this issue multiple times. It’s like people totally forgot about the Billy Busy incident.

      6. You sound like a Trump supporter getting a little nervous. I strongly believe you’re the same person posting about how the lockdown is violating her civil liberties and we need to just reopen the country already. I can tell because you never use caps or punctuation. You’re a real shining star example of contemporary conservative thought, my friend. Maybe use some free time during quarantine to take an English class online.

      7. So what’s your alternative? Please, share with the class. You obviously know better than the rest of us.

    7. I was distantly-socializing with friends last night and one of them said “I hate that I have to choose the less-rapey white man,” and yeah that sums it up.

      2. pugsnbourbon, your friend’s statement is going to be my answer to every political question.

    8. Her open support of Putin and the movement to disqualify Biden so Bernie can as the nominee makes me find the whole thing shady. So undecided but leaning towards not believing her in terms of assault. Slightly more likely to believe her on some inappropriate touching/harassment.

      But even if Biden did it, the choice is him or Trump. Trump is way way worse. Like astronomically worse in every single area.

      Starting to get worried that the Bernie or bust crowd will tank this election too. Bernie needs to come out harder in support of Biden.

    9. I don’t believe her…at least the way she says it happened. Could he have groped her? Possibly. We all know Joe can be handsy. And that fits with the people who said she told them at the time of “an issue” with a senator. Do I believe that Joe pushed her up against a wall and fingered her in a hallway? No, it seems too preposterously aggressive to me. Do I think that she thinks that’s what happened after building it up in her mind for 30 years? Maybe.

      Joe doesn’t have a history of sexual assault. Issues with personal space? Yes, established. But in my mind, it’s a long way from (what he sees as benign) shoulder rubs to (unquestionably assault, even in 1993) fingering. A long, long way.

      1. This. Something might have happened. But not what she is claiming 30 years later when she openly supports Bernie and Putin, neither of whom want Biden as the Nominee

        Why didn’t she come forward when Biden was the VP nominee?

        1. +1 or when he was campaigning for President last time…or earlier in this presidential campaign? I’m normally team women can decide when to come forward but so much of the alleged facts and the way this came forward makes me skeptical.

      3. I was coming in to say this and am glad not to be the only one. The short answer is no – I do not believe her. She has too many major inconsistencies, her story does not make a lot of sense given the layout of the area where she said it happened and the amount of traffic in that area, the dress code for the Senate during that time period required pantyhose (and that was enforced when the Senate was in session – although some senior people would overlook it during the summer when they were not), and she is just not a super credible person.

        And as an aside, her records would absolutely not be included in his personal archives. But I can guarantee that if he opens them, a team would go through his notes and find SOMETHING to be outraged about – all the while our President won’t even release his tax returns. If I were advising him, I would find a third party (preferably a Republican) with credibility and have them go through his personal documents for anything about Ms. Reade – but given the volume and the fact that they are not digitized that would take a really long time and be very expensive and I can understand why he won’t.

        It is essentially impossible to prove a negative – but while i think every claim of sexual assault/harassment should be taken seriously, that does not mean every one needs to be believed. And get ready for more because over the weekend an ABC reporter tweeted and then deleted an accusation that Biden made a crude sexual remark to a 14-year old girl at a dinner that he was demonstrably not at. He was just lucky it happened to be the year he was not in attendance because he had surgery or he would be trying to defend himself against yet another accusation.

        Biden was not my first choice – but come on guys. Until this campaign the worst thing he had ever been accused of was the sort of paternalistic touching that was incredibly common until quite recently. And he didn’t cheat on his wife with anyone much less a porn star while she was at home after giving birth.

        1. You know there are hose that don’t cover the crotch area, right? And that even those that do can be removed or ripped? On a fashion blog of all places, let’s not pretend pantyhose are some kind of chastity belt.

          1. But she apparently said she was not wearing hose – not the she was wearing thigh highs.

      4. Have you ever personally known men who have sexually assaulted women? Because I have, and they could all be described that way. “Yeah, he’s a little touchy feely/makes crass comments sometimes/pursues freshmen/offers spiritual direction to lots of the parish moms, but he would never actually assault anyone. And if he did, it’s not like power differences and his overall good reputation would stop the victim from speaking out to all the people who think he’s a great guy.”

        This is a textbook pattern of abuse. Just because he didn’t assault every woman he was creepy to doesn’t mean he didn’t assault anyone.

        1. I just want to push back on this line of thinking because I do know men who have sexually assaulted women and none of them have a pattern of this type of “creepy” behavior. The stereotype you described is what prevented their victims from coming forward because they felt that no one would believe them because “he’s such a good guy” and not just “some creep”.

    10. I supported other candidates in the primary. However, now our choice is Joe Biden or Donald Trump. We have no other real choice as to who will be president for the next four years.

      Trump is so bad that I’m going to fully support Joe Biden, not just with my vote, but with my time and money. The alternative is to say I’m ok with another four years of Trump.

    11. The right has basically decided as a campaign strategy to accuse every Democrat of sexual assault so they can call the left Me Too hypocrites. I’ve heard Republicans I know basically joke about how this is a fullproof strategy to get the Dems to fight each other and prevent them from circling the wagons against Trump, and I seem to recall a Republican politician also saying this (although I can’t find a source for it now so maybe I’m remembering wrong). I am sure if Bernie or any other man had been the nominee, there would be an accusation against him too. In my perfect world, we would have nominated a woman, but we didn’t and any Democrat (even Bernie, whom I despise) is light years better than Trump. I don’t believe Biden sexually assaulted anyone, although I believe he was touchy and/or made remarks that are inappropriate by today’s standards (as I believe most men his age did).

      2. This is beyond untrue. The issue is that the Democrats throw around baseless accusations (Blasey Ford) and ignore the very real accusations against their own (Reade, Brodderick), which makes it seem like #metoo is about taking down Republicans and not actual principles against sexual assault.

        1. So you’ve decided Blasey Ford was “baseless” but the others are certainly true. Tell me again how you’re unbiased?

          1. There’s no point in arguing with people who hate Trump. It’s a waste of time.

        2. LOL at someone who calls Christine Blasey Ford’s accusations “baseless” accusing someone of not taking sexual assault seriously.

        3. Saying Ford’s claims were baseless makes it obvious you don’t care about listening to and hearing women, you just care about whether they’re accusing an R or a D. I watched Christine Blasey Ford testify and I would bet my childrens’ life she’s telling the truth. I don’t think I’ve ever believed a victim so strongly, regardless of politics.

      3. I’m sure there are some republican voters out there who think this, but as someone who works in DC in politics, I haven’t heard any Republican members or professional Republicans say this. I think the issue is that Democrats have a history of jumping on allegations against Republicans, whether there’s solid evidence or not (see: Kavanaugh) while ignoring it when it’s against one of their own and has substantial evidence (see: Reede). Whether you agree or disagree that there was substantial evidence against Kavanaugh, it’s pretty apparent there was less than there is against Biden, so you don’t get to say “believe all women except the ones who accuse people I support politically”. Republicans never say “Believe all women” so while their contact is gross, it’s not as hypocritical – they basically say women lie about this consistently. I’ve barely even heard them say they believe Reede, just that the Democrats are hypocrites.

        I’d generally consider myself a Democrat, but it does bother me. At least own up to what it is – choosing the less rape-y option.

      1. If your thought patterns are seriously this binary and reductionist, I don’t know what else to say to you. There is zero evidence Biden raped anyone. Calling someone a rapist is a serious allegation. Words mean things. If you don’t vote in the general election because “wHat aBoUt mY PrInciPles??” you deserve to live in the dystopian Trumpian world that will result. Have fun and get ready to suck it up, buttercup.

      2. Absolutely. and I will pick the single incident rapist over the multiple incident neoNazi rapist every single time.

    13. I think her comments about Putin are very strange, and I can’t get around the fact that she can’t recall what day or even month the assault happened in. I’ve never gone through anything similar so maybe I’m off base but my thought would be that you would definitely remember details like that of something that traumatic.

      The comment above about “must be nice to be white so you think this is worth 4 more years of Trump” pretty much sums it up for me. I see people on social media saying Biden would be no worse than Trump and all I can think is…that’s pretty much a dead giveaway that you have not been negatively affected by Trump’s presidency in any salient way.

      1. I was full-on raped, crying and screaming no in a hotel room and I would have to look at a calendar and try to figure out the order of my internships in college to figure out the year. No clue what the month was. Summer is the best I can do.

        I’m not commenting on the truthfulness of her accusations, just providing anecdata.

      2. Here’s another anecdota: I was full-on stranger-raped at knifepoint many many years ago, and I remember day of week, month, date, year.

        1. Clearly every case is different and people can have different mental reactions to it, whether it be not remembering, remembering exactly, or somewhere in between. I don’t think not remembering the exact time is something we should hold against her. The mind is weird about trauma sometimes.

      3. Her comments about Putin have nothing at all to do with the validity of her allegations against Biden. We’re not trying to determine if she’s worthy of not being assaulted, we’re just trying to determine if she was assaulted.

    14. Nope. I don’t believe her and she is not credible at all. Her fixation with Putin and her changing story have me convinced this is just an attempt to discredit Biden. For the people who claim to believe her, please do more digging and see that this is not a credible woman or story.

    15. Honestly the thing that makes me doubt her most is the she said she wasn’t wearing pantyhose. In 1993. While working for a senator. Back in those days, when it was too hot to commute in hose, I brought them with me and put them on at work. Bare legs were not acceptable in a business environment.

      1. I noticed that too. I worked in a less conservative area than DC and hose were still required.

        1. OK but in the summer, if I got a run, I would be all “OMG I got a run and haven’t gone to CVS yet” all day long to get out of them.

      2. I wore a lot of thigh-high hose then b/c I’d only get a run in one leg and they were just cooler and the guys digged them. So I actually don’t think that there is a smoking gun on this.

        And as someone who worked in 1993, I can also report that this was so, so, so common in DC then. It’s like every new girl was fresh meat. And we were all just “girls” — not people anyone important would GAF about. It was the cost of entry and you were expected to play along and not complain lest you ruin your reputation (!!!) and your ability to work again. You kept your mouth shut and didn’t leave a complaint; you just hoped that your next job wouldn’t be worse.

        1. Yeah, 1992 is when I was assaulted at a Bar Association event. Thank god for the pantyhose. My mentor said not to report it.

      3. This, right here, is why women don’t come forward when they’ve been assaulted.

      1. I guess I live in a world where anyone can be raped — a wife by her husband, a prostitute by a john, etc. Why does any of this article matter?

        The call to CSPAN was shocking to me. And shocking to me that it was found. And that sort of thing happened all the time then. It was just what one did if one did then if one were so inclined. Ugh.

    17. Honestly – she lost me when she said Vladimir Putin had an obvious reverence for women (anyone who does not follow Russian news should Google Russia’s domestic violence laws and the changes to those laws under Putin – it is like the anti-Violence Against Women Act). And talked about his “alluring combination of strength with gentleness.”

      Having read some of her posts, I think she might have some mental health issues (and I mean that seriously; I am not being catty.)

      1. Agree. I don’t get how turning DV into a speeding ticket type offence in Russia matches with ‘reverence for women’.

  11. After two months of wearing polo shirts and cargo pants and dealing with the boys club at work, I want to splurge on something frivolous and trendy. I don’t gave anything specific in mind, I just want a “frivolous” treat.

    Earlier this year I got Allbirds and Rothys, thinking something along those lines (in terms of brands – not necessarily shoes)

    3. My answer is bold earrings but that is always my answer.
      See also: killer lipstick, a “going out” top, hair/bath/skin product that smells amazing.

  12. I’m currently pregnant with my second daughter, due really soon. My husband made a comment yesterday about really wanting a third because he really wants a boy.

    In this case, we did ivf for both pregnancies and we only have male embryos left, so if we did have another kid it would be a boy. Our embryologist selected the embryo for each ivf round based on quality / likelihood of success, which is why the two girls went first. I think this makes the conversation harder because it’s just that you don’t know what your kids interests will be but it isn’t a 50/50 chance boy/girl.

    I’m torn. The farther I get into this pregnancy, the more I felt like I would be happy being done after this. Having one with ivf felt like a miracle, expecting a second was more than I had hoped for, and planning for a third seems greedy. We have two big jobs, two commutes, a live in nanny, and rely on help of extended family. Two feels like it’s going to be a big jump and I’m afraid of feeling overwhelmed and like I don’t have enough time for everyone if we have 3.

    I know that the most practical thing here is to wait and see how I feel after the second, but I also don’t want to give false hope or be misleading. There’s nothing I hate more than when someone says maybe or we’ll see to something they have no intention of doing! I don’t want to do that to my husband, who is a really involved great dad to our daughter.

    Any advice?

    1. Don’t borrow trouble. Right now the door is open to #3. You have plenty of time to get to know #2 before you will have to make a choice about your family and whether to walk through or close the door.

      1. This. Admittedly, i’m a parent of three. I thought you were going to say he wanted a boy and who knows if you’d have one. The fact that your next round of IVF would be a boy actually makes me pretty sympathetic to his position… it’s a unique problem to have! BUT i think you should see if he’d want a third even if it was going to be a girl. I think it’s always healthiest to have another kid because you want another kid, not because they’re going to fill a specific role in your family, if that makes sense.

        three is a lot. but if you already have a live-in, maybe it wouldn’t be such a huge strain. i hate being pregnant, but it’s amazing how much i’ve blocked that time out now that i’m on the other side!

    2. OP- should add that we had always talked about / hoped for two. We desperately wanted one and then wanted her to have a sibling, but had agreed that I would do no more than 1 additional round of ivf pursuing a second

    3. “There’s nothing I hate more than when someone says maybe or we’ll see to something they have no intention of doing!”
      I agree, I also hate it when people do this. But this isn’t someone agreeing to go to coffee with someone when they know they never will. This is a big life decision that you yourself say you are torn on, so you aren’t agreeing or disagreeing with NO intention of doing it, even if that ends up being the outcome. Just be honest and certainly don’t dwell on it for now, you have too much going on for that & have no idea what life will be like after 2. That might make this debate a moot point for both of you.

    4. Yes. Tell your husband that you don’t know if you want a third kid but do know for sure that you don’t want to discuss it now, whilst you are extremely pregnant.

    5. “Hey DH, there’s a strong chance that I’m not going to be physically and mentally willing to go through IVF again. I’d like if we could focus on this pregnancy for now and have that conversation in the future, but I don’t want you to get your hopes up in the meantime. Let’s stay neutral until we see where we’re at farther down the road.”

      That’s how I’d phrase it with my husband.

    6. Advice: Do not try to make this decision now, when you’re pregnant, when the virus situation has undoubtably put extra stress on you, and when you’re about to have an infant. Good grief . . . have your second child before you start deciding whether to have a third one. Just put the whole conversation on hold.

      1. ^This. I would even say this. “I don’t feel like I have the mental or emotional capacity to make a binding decision on this right now. Can we agree to table this discussion until after the baby is here and we see where everything stands?”

    7. I know several families, who after getting two kids of the same sex (either boys or girls) said “we’re going to have a third.” Once the second child arrived, attitudes changed significantly. Several of my friends have said that having another child doesn’t double your work, it multiplies it exponentially. Especially when they are under 5. My BFF has two and her husband was dead set on having a third until his brother had a third child who was hell on wheels, and they also realized how much work it is just to have two. My BFF’s husband got a vasectomy when their youngest was 4. So, OP, I would wait this out. Don’t borrow problems right now. I would tell your husband “we’ll revisit this when the new baby turns a year old,” and when that year rolls around see what he says. If he’s still dead set on a third, see how YOU feel then (you could feel great or you could feel like hammered you-know-what) and then make some decisions.

      1. Yeah, I remember a friend of mine who had two in thirteen months called me when the second was a newborn and said “There are NO economies of scale!”

      2. This. I also know people who were SURE that they wanted 4-5 kids and once the second was born decided they were perfectly happy with two.

    8. He doesn’t want a boy. He wants the fantasy of what he thinks raising a boy will be like. What does he plan to do if the boy wants to wear his sister’s dresses or take ballet instead of football.

      I have 5 year old twin boys. Does he want to parent the one who loves construction, biking, Paw Patrol, rainbows, unicorns, whose favourite colour is pink and fav pup is Skye? he ready to buy pink sneakers for his 5 year old son? Or does he only want the twin who loves blue, green, Thomas the Train and dinosaurs. My DH is pretty open minded and he has struggled. He is supportive but it is not easy. I’ve struggled myself. There is a lot more support out there for girls in this area – tons of pink leggings with dinosaurs – hardly any boys tshirts with rainbows and unicorns.

      1. My son loves trains, cars, trucks, planes, anything that rolls. His favorite color is yellow, but he also loves rainbows and unicorns and fairies.

        Last spring, we went to a unicorn-themed birthday party. The party favors were unicorn t-shirts. I can’t find the exact one online, but the shirt is black with a unicorn riding a motorcycle and a rainbow in there somewhere. Kiddo loved it so much, he chose to wear it for his own birthday party a few weeks later! It was too big for him and went down to his knees and made it look like he wasn’t wearing pants, but I wasn’t going to fight him on it.

        1. Perfect. Will totally try to find this.

          Twin #1 has zero interest in girls clothes. He wants boy clothes he just doesn’t want his paw patrol shirt to have chase or marshall, he wants skye. I wish they would just make gender neutral kids clothes.

          1. Primary.com is great for this. Clothes come in colors, not genders, so if you have a son who loves purple or a daughter who loves green, you are all good! Not a huge number of patterns, but not expensive and well made. I have a son and a daughter and like that this helps with hand me downs.

      2. It’s 2020, can we *please* put to rest the idea that boys who take ballet are effeminate and/or gay? My 9yo, who is taking ballet, would have nothing to do with it until kiddo had to sit through his sister’s recital and a pre-professional male student did a really amazing solo. Professional football players sometimes take ballet to improve flexibility.

    9. Tell him he’s carrying the next one.

      Only halfway kidding. That’s what I told my husband when he casually suggested “maybe we should have one more after this” when I was hugely pregnant with our youngest. I was like “who’s WE?? Your part takes 2 minutes. Mine takes 9 months. My body can’t take one more pregnancy.” And I kept repeating that. My body was done. Five pregnancies, three live births, two living children. Yeah, enough.

      You get to decide how many pregnancies you’re willing to carry. Tell him now. Lots of happy families have all girls – I’m from one, and my sisters and I turned out ok!

      1. “Five pregnancies, three live births, two living children. Yeah, enough.”

        That sounds brutal. Your body and your psyche are done by then.

    10. Advice is to wait and see. I have 3. I love having 3. We did not entertain the idea of 3 until after my second was born. I am a cranky grumpy pregnant person. It was not the time.

      You guys may feel complete after two. You may feel overwhelmed and need to revisit later. You may still feel like you want three. But do NOT borrow trouble.

      FWIW we’ve always wanted a bigger family, and we know when we had our 2nd that we might go for three. #2 was a TON of work and we ended up trying for our 3rd while still in the throes of babydom with #2 because I could tell that if I ever got out of the baby stage with #2 I’d never want a third!! So my first two are 4 years apart and my second two are just shy of 2 years apart and now that everyone is potty trained we are very happy with our choice. We had two very very tough years with essentially two babies.

    11. Do not take your husband’s relatively offhand comment as something you need to tear yourself up over. Table the discussion until your new baby is at least six months old.

    12. I have no advice except to say that I’m kind of your husband in this situation. I’m 8 months pregnant with our second boy and am already thinking about a third just to try again for a girl. We have no guarantees though since not IVF. My husband is being very practical and telling me that we’ll see how it goes with two. We never wanted 3. The plan was always 2 but now I’m so jealous of all friends with girls. Probably a combination of hormones and two close friends who are pregnant with girls now. I don’t know how I’d handle it if a third is a boy. Probably not well. Or how we’d even handle 3 kids since same as you – big jobs, one big commute, nanny, etc. It’s a tough situation, and at least in my case, I feel so guilty that these thoughts have consumed half of my current pregnancy.

    13. Definitely don’t borrow trouble. Neither you nor your husband really know how you’ll feel about a third child until you have your second. I would just say that – you’re not sure right now, but you worry you can’t do another. Let’s see how the second one goes and talk about it again in a year or two. I think that’s perfectly fair.

    14. The way I see it, I won’t know until I have a second if I’ll want a third. Pregnancy #1 was a fertility nightmare. #2 is so far failed, but also on hold because of COVID. You just don’t know until they’re here. I do think that if after baby #2 is here you feel strongly against #3, you should be direct with your husband about it but give yourself some time before borrowing that trouble.

    15. This sounds like an excellent question for 6-months or 1-year from now you to discuss with your husband.

    16. If it was my husband, I’d be very tempted to say something like, “sure thing, King Henry VIII,” or “did I miss the last royal proclamation and it turns out we need a male heir to secure the future of Westeros?” or some other smartass remark.

      I grew up in a place where it seem pretty common for people to have a number of girls in order to “try for a boy.” My dad is not a particular demonstratively person, but even he thought that was a little silly as someone with two daughters.

  13. Posted this late Friday, but based on the couple of responses I got, wanted to provide more information and see if there are other DC-rettes who could help!
    Talk to me about DC suburbs! My husband and I are looking at a relocation for his job – luckily my job has an office in DC. It’s also much closer to our family, so we’re looking at it as a long term move. We have two kids – 2 and 4 and are looking at one office downtown and another in Old Town. We’re pretty open to public or private schools, but understand the financial commitment private school would be, so schools aren’t make or break (though of course, we want to preserve resale value), but we want a community feel with a yard (even if small, though something on the hill or downtown would definitely be too small from what we’ve looked at) and the ability to walk to at least some things. We like the look of many of the North West DC suburbs – Wesley Heights, Spring Valley, etc, but also like the look of Del Ray, etc – with our commutes, one or the other doesn’t seem obvious from afar? One response flagged that NW DC can have an “elite” vibe, which we’d definitely prefer to avoid. We were drawn to the older houses that seem cheaper than what we looked at in Alexandria. This is all remote so far – we’re planning a trip to DC in early summer (hopefully) with a move happening in late summer. We’re coming from SF, so everything looks cheap to us comparatively right now, and will likely be working with a substantial budget – up to $2m or so. Does anyone have favorite suburbs? We also are so used to paying an arm and a leg for housing, we’d love to spend less, but we don’t have a good metric for even what’s a reasonable budget. TIA!

    1. If you live in DC, you have a HUUUUUGE likelihood of being called for jury duty (if you are not a criminal and not in law enforcement and not related to either). Like I know no one in DC who has not been called and no one in Arlington (where I live and have a lot of college friends) or Fairfax (friends) who has ever been called. DC = higher taxes and more crime per resident population. VA = lower taxes and not a ton of crime per resident. MD = mix of higher taxes but not heard the jury duty complaints.

      Like when I worked in BigLaw in DC it was disruptive b/c at least each year a deal had to restaff when someone was on jury duty and it would take a whole week of them being unavailable all day b/c they were actually on a jury hearing a felony. And this was for lawyers. They just weren’t on a pool that could call in every day; they got seated.

      1. I’ve heard this advice on here before, but this seems like a silly reason to pick a place to live. Do people in the DC metro really avoid living in the city because they might get called for jury duty?

        1. I’d just throw it into the mix, along with taxes and some known awful commutes. I think to be in DC means that you are school indifferent (definitely private schools or definitely no-kids-of-school-age-yet) and your commute is not displeasing to you. That commute would be displeasing.

          And as an attorney (90% of DC), I never would expected to be on a jury ever.

        2. Agreed. When I read this response I actually went back to read the original post to see what I missed about maybe her needing juries for her job or something?
          Also, fyi, she mentions she is coming from SF. I used to live in SF for a decade and you also get called to jury duty there every year like clock work. To be fair, often it is just to call & you don’t end up having to go in, so maybe it’s slightly different, but not totally unfamiliar.

          1. Yep, Berkeley here and I also get called every year on the dot, exactly one year since last time.

          2. I find that so funny. I live in Boston, I’m 35, registered voter since 18, and have never been called once in my life. I probably just jinxed myself into a grand jury seat…

        3. I agree that this really doesn’t make sense. I’m in DC and have never been called for jury duty. I have a couple colleagues who have, but not a significant number of them.

    2. I would not live in NW DC if one of the jobs is in Old Town unless there was a really strong reason for it. I love the AU Park area but that commute would be soul-sucking. Based on your jobs I would either live in Old Town itself — with your budget, you could find a townhouse with a yard — or somewhere in Alexandria, Del Ray, Rosemont or Beverley Hills, where the lots are bigger but you still have a nice community feel. That way the person going to OT will have a very short commute (even bikeable/walkable depending on where) and the downtown commuter will have a reasonable (30-45 min) commute by car. I love Belle Haven and the area further down the GW Parkway but we ruled it out because of the commute — it can take 15 minutes just to get through Old Town because of the way the traffic lights are timed.

      Your budget would probably also get you something in North Arlington if you wanted to look in the area that feeds in to Yorktown. You will pay a premium for schools, but there is a lot of heated debate in the area about how Alexandria’s schools perform worse on tests because there are so many more minorities. Arlington is far less diverse, if that matters to you. Many Alexandria parents are very happy with the publics at least through middle school. You are fortunate that you are coming from SF, in a way — the Amazon effect is having a very real effect on prices so be prepared for competition and a fast-moving market, but you are probably used to that.

      1. I currently live in Belle Haven. I previously lived in Old Town. My husband and I both work in DC. It is not a terrible commute but there are certainly better commutes into DC. What is your priority? Yard space? Single family home? Historic style? Great public schools? Great restaurants nearby? Generally, Old Town and Belle Haven have a more traditional vibe than Del Ray. Old Town has more restaurants and all the tourists. However, I think Del Ray has better restaurants. Generally the lot sizes in Belle Haven are bigger than around Del Ray. If you go closer to Quaker Lane in Alexandria, there are some beautiful houses on huge lots but I have no idea if there is much of a community.

        1. I would say we definitely want a single family home with a small yard, first and foremost. No strong feeling on schools. Otherwise, cute neighborhood (can be historic, can be eclectic) with at least decent restaurants and the ability to walk to some things. It sounds like Del Ray or Belle Haven are right up our alley from what you’re saying, and it sounds like we’ll want to avoid Old Town proper (the tourist thing would get to me for sure).

          1. I am the poster at 11:05. To clarify, most restaurants are in Del Ray and Old Town. I think it is close to 3 miles to Old Town. I am not as familiar with Rosemont and areas by the Masonic Temple but there is a lot more to Alexandria than the areas I mentioned.

      2. I live in an extra expensive Bay Area city and grew up in North Arlington. Your budget will go really far in North Arlington in a neighborhood with a great elementary school.

        I loved Arlington Public Schools and growing up in Arlington.

    3. I gave the elite comment. With your additional comments here, one thing I’d consider is whether those NW DC houses really are cheaper when you factor in $30k (x2) private school tuition to keep your kids out of DCPS.

      And yeah, strangely, the DC jury duty thing is real. Attorneys in my office are always complaining about it.

      I think you’ll see when you get here that Alexandria is just a really great place to raise a young family – it feels lively, even in the established neighborhoods. NW DC has a mature, sedate vibe. It always seems to me like kids squealing as they run through a sprinkler in the yard would be frowned upon in NW, while in Alex neighbor kids would come out to join in.

        1. Oh, ha, I just guessed at some number that seemed like more than I’d be willing to spend on first grade. OP, there ya go – do you want to spend way more than $60k per year to educate your kids?

      2. Ha – the elite thing makes more sense here. I couldn’t tell if it was meant to be a proxy for “pricey”. Yeah, I mean, ideally we’d at least have the option to go public – both my husband and I grew up in areas where private schools were cheaper and the public schools were worse, though we could definitely do the private school tuition (assuming $45k/year) if needed. It’d be nice to have the option to go public if that’s what makes sense for our family at the time, though.

        I love your example of the sprinkler in the yard – we would definitely prefer the place where other kids come over when that happens :)

      3. Private school tuition is more like 40-45k per kid. You should look in Virginia. The commute from NW DC to Old Town will be awful. It could easily be an hour each way, possibly longer. I’d look at North Arlington for nice houses, not to elitist, good commute for you both and excellent public schools if you decide you want to go that option. Its not super charming however. If you want charming, I’d look at Del Ray. There will be new builds in Arlington out of your price range at $2 million, but most everything else should be in price range. Del Ray is less expensive.

        1. I live in Del Ray and love it, but I think you’re looking for a more North Arlington vibe – Lyon Park area and similar. You could be happy in Rosemont (between Old Town and Del Ray), but I think North Arlington (around the orange line metro line) is a better fit for you.

          1. I highly recommend looking at Petworth in NW DC. Super kid-friendly, houses with yards, very close-knit community, and a pretty easy commute to Old Town. Yes, there is crime but a lot of that is changing.

          2. Could you elaborate? What is the vibe in North Arlington vs. Del Ray? Open to either – we’re just working off of things people have mentioned to us about DC and the vibe we get when searching Zillow.

    4. Current NW DC resident (Chevy Chase DC) – to me, I think it depends on where you go in NW in terms of snootiness. CCDC doesn’t seem all that snooty, but maybe that’s because I’m walking distance to two giant elementary schools so there’s lots of kids and families around by nature. The houses and lots are generally also smaller than what you would find in Spring Valley/Wesley Heights/as I drive down Foxhall Rd. And there’s definitely a community vibe here. But I agree with the other posters that it’s going to be muuuuuch easier to commute into the city from Del Ray (even via metro @ Braddock Rd.) or N. Arlington than it would be to commute to Old Town from CCDC. I can drive from my apt to my office in Metro Center in about 35 mins in rush hour, bus+metro takes about the same.

      And yeah, private school tuition is no joke. CCDC generally has good public schools if you choose not to do private.

    5. I personally wouldn’t do City of Alexandria schools, with the exception of maybe the Del Ray area. Also, a lot of addresses for homes will say “Alexandria” but are actually in Fairfax County, not the City of Alexandria, so that is something to pay attention to and verify if you think you’ve found a great deal in Alexandria.
      Shirlington/Fairlington area in South Arlington is nice and the public school does pretty well. The Village at Shirlington is walkable to parks, restaurants, grocery store, library, etc. No direct metro access but one bus stop from Pentagon Metro and not a horrible commute into DC because it’s so close to 395. VERY close to Alexandria. However, if your budget is $2M, you can probably do better.
      With a budget that high, I’d look in North Arlington. Rosslyn could be nice geographically but you’re going to have a condo, not a house. If you’re looking for a big house/yard situation for $2M, maybe McLean? I can’t speak to how the commute from there to Old Town will be during rush hour, though.

      1. We looked at McLean a bit online, but were really turned off by the McMansion vibe – seems like you get a lot for the money, but we’d rather have smaller if it means not living in something off the McMansion hell blog.

    6. This is late, but check out North Arlington! We love it. Public schools are great, and you could definitely find what you’re looking for in your budget. Check out 22207 – nice homes, but not crazy. A lot of lovely older homes that have been renovated – a few tear downs replaced by McMansions, but they don’t dominate. My only complaint is that it isn’t super walkable time restaurants, etc.

  14. Help me with my first-world problem. During normal times, I get Brazilian waxes every 6 weeks. I haven’t had one since the beginning of February, and the situation is…dire. Any suggestions for at-home waxing/other methods? I’ve tried using clippers once before and was very itchy and uncomfortable, but I may have not been using the right kind.

    1. I went to school in a rural area and basically taught myself with supplies you could get via delivery (wax, melter, muslin strips, some sort of oil for helping with cleanup). Start with a trim (down <1/2 ") and go in small areas. There may be youtube tutorials (on other areas). But I wouldn't attempt a full brazilian — too much can go wrong. I'd just aim for a tidy landing strip or at least symmetrical.

    2. I am running into the same issue. I’ve tried both shaving and Nair for maintenance – they work ok, but stubbling is much worse. Good luck!

    3. Trim it short with scissors and just shave the bikini line? I have a Tria home laser I use after shaving when I really want it to all look good and that tends to keep the razor burn at bay and makes the shave last longer.

    4. I routinely use a Schick TrimStyle razor with the guard removed to get a closer trim and it works well. Doesn’t pull or cause any razor burn. Bonus points that it has a regular razor on the other end so dual-purpose!

    5. I think I would stop trimming or any other activity that is going to give you blunt ends that will poke and itch and just wait it out. Go a naturel for a while and see if you like it, or part of it, and may want to change a bit going forward.

    6. I’ve waxed at home with warm wax and strips, which I think works the best. I don’t think you should diy though unless you have a high pain tolerance and nerves of steel.

    7. I always shave at home but I know that’s not always popular.

      Don’t do it immediately when you get in the shower – let the skin get warm and wet. Use lots of shaving cream and a new or definitely sharp razor. I like to put deodorant in it immediately after – there are other products made specifically for this. If it looks
      like there may be an ingrown hair or something don’t push it and try to shave over it – leave that particular spot alone.

    8. For me, the key to trimming is finding the right length – too long/short and it’s uncomfortable or I get ingrowns. I would suggest trying different lengths before at-home waxing, but I’m a sissy in that dept. I use a 3mm trimmer guard right now and that’s perfect for me.

  15. Does anyone know if there are articles / journal articles discussing coronavirus spread with any of these groups:

    college spring breakers
    Mardi Gras revelers
    St. Patrick’s Day revelers
    Easter stealth visitors

    It dawned on me that all of these are enough in the past that if there was significant spread, we should know about that now. Caveat that 1 and 3 are perhaps primarily younger people (vs 2 and 4, more representative among age groups with 4 skewing the oldest possibly). And if there is nothing out there, maybe all are more or less NBD (which is great, in a way, in showing where problems aren’t).

    I had some weekend FB rants visited upon the world from health care workers purporting that we are all killing people by merely venturing outside. I get it — if you are actually treating dying coronavirus people in hospitals, then that is what you’ve been doing 24/7 for a month and that probably is enough to be PTSD-inducing. And you see the sickest of the sick, likely mostly older people with substantial health issues.

    I wonder, though, if we aren’t all blind men seeing a different part of the elephant. They see one extreme. [Like I know a doctor who has ranted about car crashes for years, to the point where you can’t have a vanilla convo with him. All he sees is that cars crash and main and injury people in ways that they won’t recover from even if they survive. My neonatologist only sees sick babies. They never see car crashes that you walk away from. Or robust babies.] But I know people putting off needed medical procedures and when I think of reopening, I think of things like that — how can we care for the rest of people? The people who put their needs on pause for others, now want to make sure that they can get the care that they need now that ERs (in my state, city, and region) are managing with their loads (here: largely nursing home driven and definitely that is still of grave concern).

    1. have not heard, which i think is telling. if COVID was hitting these populations hard we would have an overflow of coverage on them. Some examples which would also be interesting: grocery store workers (are they all seemingly fine??) and prison populations (there is info on this but it does not fit the mainstream narrative).

      1. IIRC, prisons are having spread, but there are two populations there (younger prisoners and very old and sick prisoners) and then the guards. Generally the old/sick are housed separately and many I think have been paroled on medical grounds (this happens from time to time normally — life in prison means that you will have some people in their 70s with cancer or other conditions and even much older/sick people).

        1. This definitely depends on the state. In my state, no one has been medically paroled due to being high risk and old inmates are housed in general population. Our prisons are not doing wide-spread testing so we have no idea whether the virus has spread there.

      2. No, grocery store workers are not fine. Prison populations are not fine (including guards). Google is your friend here.

        The CDC has reported on how Mardi Gras accelerated COVID. Cell phone data shows how widely dispersed spring breakers became, which makes it hard to tie them to an “outbreak” in any one region, but you can pretty much guarantee they spread COVID far and wide.

        1. But were they actually ever sick? Those are the stories I am not seeing. And Mardi Gras revelers could be anyone traveling on a plane then (lots of work travelers, private school have winter breaks, etc.). I get that they could be vectors (we all could be; I was travelling for work then), but I am not seeing that they were getting sick.

          1. Yes, they are. I’m not sure where you’re looking, but this information is everywhere. I’ve seen countless headlines about sky-high infection rates in correctional facilities and how dozens of grocery store workers have died. Whole Foods employees were striking just this past Friday to try to get hazard pay and better PPE.

            Here’s one source I found for you just now: https://www.themarshallproject.org/2020/04/24/these-prisons-are-doing-mass-testing-for-covid-19-and-finding-mass-infections

            Again, Google is your friend.

          2. I thought we were talking about Mardi Gras and Spring Breakers and Easter visitors. I’m not seeing or hearing about any there there.

            Sadly, what I am hearing about is nursing home residents and workers and close-together factory workers.

          3. Basically an entire planeload of UT students who went to spring break together got COVID. It was widely reported.

      3. I don’t think grocery workers are fine. There have been outbreaks at several stores among workers. Google it.

    2. I don’t know about medical/academic journals, but, yes, absolutely Mardi Gras was a point of spread, and I think that’s well-known. New Orleans has been a hotspot for COVID-19, and our state is still on lockdown while others around us are starting to reopen. They’ve cancelled all of our other major festivals for the year, and are contemplating cancelling Mardi Gras 2021.

      1. I also want to say that for Mardi Gras – in addition to seeing a huge influx of visitors TO the city, many, many locals travel out of state (tons to Disney) and then return. So I think you have to add in not only how much spread occurred from people in New Orleans, but also from all of those carrying it back on flights from all of their vacations.

      2. New Orleans and Louisiana officials acknowledge that Mardi Gras was a known point of spread. Our St. Patrick’s events were canceled, but people gathered in large numbers anyways (ugh), and our first social distancing orders (not strict stay-at-home) were announced the day after the canceled St. Patrick’s Day parade.

        The mayor has basically said no “high risk” events until there’s herd immunity or a vaccine. Reading between the lines, I think it’s extremely unlikely New Orleans will have Mardi Gras next year.

        1. I agree. A friend of mine who is a lieutenant in a krewe put something on his Fb yesterday saying that they had lost some riders from his float, so they have openings, if people want to join. I thought that was optimistic… I, for one, am glad that our mayor has taken a hard line. There are already people here who are distrustful of government and won’t heed warnings, so she has to. She is also not willing to take any heat over Mardi Gras, which I think is totally fair. We had absolutely no idea at Mardi Gras that this was an issue at all. We were more concerned about people getting run over by floats.

      3. It’s been news for well over a month that Mardi Gras was a big “point of infection” for the NOLA area. It was compared to the 1918 Spanish flu reaction in Philadelphia and St Louis, where Philadelphia carried on with a scheduled parade and St Louis cancelled, and Philadelphia was hit harder than any other city. Mardi Gras was considered sort of the equivalent “big parade” event for this pandemic.

    3. My (admittedly limited) understanding is that the outbreak in New Orleans was consistent with spread at Mardi Gras. But otherwise I don’t think we have information available to reliably track these things. To write an article on spread from one of these events, you would need data showing who attended and whether they ended up with Covid.

      I agree that you’d think we would have this kind of information, but my understanding is that by and large we don’t.

      Someone tell me if I’m wrong.

      1. What I’m not seeing “ABC went to mardi gras, got sick, and spread it to their roommate, co-workers, and around their city.” No doubt some of that happened, but they would have been among my city’s first wave of cases and I’m sure that would have been reported had that been the case. My thinking is that since there are so many shuttles from my city to LGA each day, it was work travelers getting it on the subway in NYC and bringing it back with them.

        1. I live in a state that borders Louisiana, and this is literally how our first few confirmed cases happened and how it was reported. It was widely reported that the first confirmed case here was contracted at Mardi Gras, and the first handful of cases were reported as being connected to that person (they were spread across several counties, by the way). We also have a couple of prison outbreaks, and those occupy a significant portion of the governor’s press conference every day. So, yes, this reporting all exists.

        2. Yes, the news outlets in New Orleans reported that Mardi Gras was a probable source of infection because several different people came to New Orleans for Mardi Gras, returned to their various home states, and were the first reported cases in their areas.

          I haven’t seen this reported as much but have been following out of personal interest (and obviously, it’s being reported some, because I can find it if I look). This year, Disney had 6 cruises out of New Orleans during February and March. I went on the cruise 2 days after Mardi Gras. Several passengers from that cruise developed COVID symptoms within 14 days of disembarking, but there is no way to know for sure whether they were positive for the virus while on the ship. However, about a week later, the Disney ship left New Orleans for a 14-day repositioning cruise to San Diego. Several passengers had symptoms while on that ship and tested positive after that cruise, and dozens more tested positive afterwards. All but the first two ports were canceled. The timing suggests that at least some passengers were positive when they boarded in New Orleans, and that cruise was a source of spread to other passengers over 14 days.

    4. One of the biggest risks is that the spring breakers are asymptomatic and are spreading it to others. Do you see that national cases are rising now (excluding NY)? They have helped fuel that rise.

      And I don’t know how you say that grocery store workers are fine. Any front line workers are getting sick increasingly. We are going to be in a bad place when farm workers get sick (and are not easily replaced due to the border closure), and grocery store workers are sick in enough numbers that retail stores have to alter their operations.

      1. In my state (lots of farms), farmworker housing will be an issue when spread starts there. But that is at least a much younger/healthier population than we have in nursing homes (albeit still dense). I have read where we think that 10% of late crops could go unpicked, which will increase prices (esp. for food banks). “Gleaning” volunteers are those needed to pick harvestable crops that are unpicked — you may want to keep an eye out b/c many farmers would donate but not be able fund the labor for picking.

    7. My first post may have gotten eaten – look to the articles about church leaders who became ill or died after announced that they would not cancel in-person services.

      1. Easter family visiting though is not a story I’m reading about — I think that most people had been home for weeks and if they visited family members, they likely had no new germs to spread. I am thinking quick no-stop car trips, maybe a meal, then back home. I think that things really paused when schools closed and that is the crowd that likely visits for easter (grandparents want to see grandkids; my parents don’t want a visit from me the way they do from my sister who has kids).

        1. Our city didn’t have a post-Easter spike and our peak is pushed out sometime into the summer. I think that people are being lax now and the sky does not seem to be falling. I think that people loosened up a bit starting around Easter, so I don’t expect big spikes when we officially loosen (spikes, yes, for when the nursing home vector people go back to church, sadly; we’re big on churches here, which usually is such a good thing b/c they have been doing a lot of feeding of kids when schools are out in the summer).

        2. My county is now in the middle of a “surge” because case count nearly doubled over this weekend. Almost all of those cases started showing symptoms the week after Easter, but the official tests are just coming in now.

      3. Both my current city DC and my home state had spikes late last week and over this weekend, which is two weeks after Easter. I don’t think we are hearing about it because it’s hard to draw that direct connection on a mass scale, but I totally think it happened.

    8. If you want to think of this like a researcher would, then you have to be unbiased as to the outcome. You seem to be very invested in your (false) belief that there was no spread in these situations, just because you somehow haven’t heard about it. It’s very very easy to google this.

    9. This’d be extremely difficult to track because humans are messy. There are case reports (for spring breakers bringing home covid, and a coronavirus party that ended up being just that), but we just don’t have the data to accurately model this sort of event. The risk of acquiring covid is related to both the number of people you’re exposed to, your behavior, and the rate of covid in the population you’re exposed to. We have some handle on the first 2, but no clue on the latter, making any sort of modeling excess risk nigh on impossible. Furthermore, spread of the virus is exponential not linear, so small increases in early spread make a huge difference in final infected populations- all this makes quantitative analysis of this sort of thing extremely difficult.
      That being said, stay at home orders are showing effect: https://arxiv.org/abs/2004.06098

    11. In my state, testing is going up exponentially so, therefore, positive cases are going up. Percentage positive cases are going way down. Of course cases are going up as testing goes up. I don’t trust cases as a measure, nor deaths (because deaths have a two-four week lag time) I trust hospitalizations and ER visits for suspected covid. Both are way down in my state but is being ignored because “There are tons of new positive cases.” Duh.

  16. Good morning! This is my first spring owning a home, and I’m trying to think of what should go on the homeowner best-practices list for spring (and pretending that everything is up and running, given the circumstances). Our yard is a disaster, and there’s an impressive swarm of ants in the backyard who I can only assume are plotting their eventual siege of our house. What else should go on the list?

    Also, hi to those on the DC/Maryland line. If there are any recommendations for local lawn service companies or exterminators, I’d really appreciate them. Thanks!

    1. Make sure that any warranties or services that were under the previous owners name gets transferred to you if you have access to the paperwork.
      For example, our roof is under warranty still and we had to call the roofer and transfer the warranty to our name. Same for our crawlspace encapsulation which we have used multiple times already to have the dehumidifier serviced.
      I would also suggest some basic maintenance service on things like your HVAC if you don’t have record of that being done recently. I know we are all hunkered down now, but actually talk to the technician when they eventually come out. We learned a lot about invisible things in our house we would have never known about. It’s helpful to know what type of system you have, how frequently it should be serviced, etc.
      Depending on whether you want to do the work or not, landscaping and yard maintenance really isn’t that hard once you get it under control. I know there are plenty of people who hate it or don’t have time to mow their lawns, but I enjoy working in the yard.

      1. And keep a record of the maintenance or inspections you have done. It’ll be useful to you (in the event of an insurance or warranty claim) and to any future owners of your home.

      2. In addition to the hard work things – maybe add a few pots of your favourite flowers or herbs in the yard? Something to enjoy checking in on and puttering around a bit while you get used to things. It sounds silly, but it’s good to claim the space as yours. :)

    2. Check your gutters now, before they get clogged with fall leaves and back up. Also, anything that may cause trouble come winter should be inspected during nice weather, like outside spigots.

    3. Gutters!

      DC/Maryland on which side? We’re over by National Harbor and finally managed to find an amazing lawn company, but Bethesda’s probably too far for him.

      2. Try Gingko on Capitol Hill. I’m not sure they’ll go to Takoma, but they do serve DC and have done amazing work for me in the past.

    4. What are you doing for the ants in the yard? This is the first spring in our home. Part of our lawn seems to be an ant outpost for similar siege planning purposes. I know how to handle ants in the home but in the middle of our lanw is a little perplexing. I’d normally not bother but DD plays out there non stop, as does the dog, and the mound is quite large!

  17. Given everything going on in the world, this is going to be a really inane question, but eh well.
    For those of you that are super organized, what application or system do you use as the “home base” for all of your contact information (emails, cells, home addresses…), that then syncs with other things?
    I’m thinking of basing it all in my gmail account going forward, then having that sync to my iphone or whatever as needed, but before I went down that path just wanted to see if there are downsides to doing that I should consider. I could alternatively house it in my iphone/apple, or other suggestions…
    (I previously housed all of this in my work Outlook due to long ago historical reasons, but that stopped syncing with my iPhone randomly a longish time ago… time to redo my whole system anyway I think).
    Thanks!

  18. PSA for those having issues with looking up your stimulus payment status or entering bank account information on the IRS s!te: try entering your address in all caps.

  19. how exactly to antibodies work? My in-laws live in one of the Covid hot spots. They want to get the antibody test and then assuming they have antibodies, they want to hop on a plane to come and visit us (we have two young children). I know the verdict is still out as to whether someone with antibodies can’t get it again, but assuming that they cannot – is this how antibodies work? even if they came into contact with someone on the plane with the virus, they still could not carry it to us?
    [note: personally I think this is a terrible idea even if they do test positive, because from what i’ve read a lot of the antibody tests are unreliable and i know we are not yet sure about reinfection]

    1. There are serious questions about antibody test accuracy, and even if the test is accurate it’s not proven they’re immune from the disease, but theoretically if you have antibodies you have had the disease and if you’ve had the disease you can’t sick again. They would need to get sick to pass it on to you – if they’re exposed on the plane but don’t get sick, you won’t get sick.
      That said, children have a a microscopic chance of getting seriously ill from this (most estimates I’ve read have the fatality rate in children below .01% or 1 in 10,000; even with the plane trip and coming from NJ, I believe your children are a much greater threat to your in-laws than your in-laws are to your children. It’s your decision but I would be comfortable having them come if they were ok with the risks to their own health.

      1. *can’t get sick again in the near term, I should say. Immunity almost certainly doesn’t last forever, but most experts believe it should last at least a year.

      1. I wouldn’t say there’s “no evidence.” The fact that the virus has been circulating for about 5 months now and there’s no documented case of anyone getting it twice suggests immunity exists at least in the short term. It’s not absolutely proven (and would be difficult to prove without deliberately exposing people to virus, which can’t be done), but most virologists agree it would be extraordinary to get sick from an infectious disease, fully recover from it, have antibodies in your blood and not have at least short term immunity. And it’s known that recovery from SARS, a very similar coronavirus, gives you immunity for about 3 years. There are a lot of unknowns about COVID immunity, including how long immunity lasts and the level of antibodies required to confer immunity (asymptomatic or very mild cases may not give you enough antibodies), but that isn’t the same as there being no evidence for short term immunity.

        1. Haven’t there been people in Wuhan who tested positive, then negative (recovered), then positive again?

          1. Yes, but the current theory is that the tests were picking up on dead virus detritus – to the best of my knowledge, there have been no cases of people going symptomatic -> recovered -> symptomatic. Dead virus detritus is no risk to either the person who has it, or the people around them.

    3. I think I had covid in early March. Well, I sometimes think I had it, sometimes don’t. Which is why I want an antibody test. But from my research, I’m waiting until the medical and research community has decided which test is the best and antibody testing becomes widespread.

      The last thing I want is a false result and then go about basing my personal decisions on that.

      Your parents should do the same. They can wait a month or so to see you.

    4. This is another not enough data problem. There are many pathogens where you get them once, develop antigens and memory T-cells and those are able to clear out the bug the next time you catch it. Unfortunately, there’s also pathogens which you can catch multiple times despite antibody production, and other coronaviruses fall into this category, raising the specter that people could be infected multiple times. There’s also the worst possible case, where the antibodies you produce help reinfection. There are also case reports for recovered covid patients not developing antibodies, and other coronaviruses can induce antibody responses that fade rapidly (~2yrs). Furthermore, every test has error, so a positive antibody test could only indicate that you’ve had a coronavirus (which are endemic cold viruses) instead of Sars-cov2, which is the one we’re worried about. So, in summary, we do not have enough data on whether durable immune response is going to be a thing we can count on, nor is there evidence that a positive antibody test means you’ve had it, nor is there evidence that a positive antibody test means you’re immune.
      Antibody tests are very interesting to epidemiologists as positive antibody response indicates that you’ve probably had it, and help give information on the true prevalence in a population, but as a screening technique for who can travel, no not helpful.

      Recommended reading if you want the science behind my assertions: Derek Lowe’s blog titled in the pipeline, and also the anime show cells at work gives a very friendly and gentle intro to the immune system

    5. My husband thinks he had a mild version in early March (mild fever and suddenly severely short of breath and coughing for 10 days, but no other symptoms, and couldn’t get a test). He called his doc last week to ask whether he could have an antibody test and was told that the antibody tests are not reliable enough to make them worthwhile. It’s a very conservative, very evidence-based practice, FWIW.

    6. The tests are not reliable enough. I’m in a hot spot and my NP/ICU-nurse sister is getting one but advised me not to. I was sick with symptoms in late March, but my doc also said don’t bother until the tests are more reliable as having unreliable information (ie: false positive for the antibody) might inspire people to go back to “normal” based on bad information.

    7. My mother had covid (tested positive via nose swab and now fully recovered) and had the antibody test (it was also positive). My father (who we thought had a mild case of covid), tested negative for antibodies. They live in the same house, but were sleeping in separate rooms/using separate bathrooms once my Mom had symptoms. Either my Dad truly did not get it, or the antibody tests are not that accurate. They waited 3 weeks post my Mom’s last symptoms to get the antibody test, which should be enough time.

      1. It’s also possible that your father had it, but because he was asymptomatic, his immune system did not have a strong antibody response. It could be that asymptomatic carriers simply do not mount a strong antibody response.

        This is another reason why antibody tests for asymptomatic patients is not recommended outside of a research protocol.

  20. Need Summer Pajama Recommendations

    I’d love some summer pajamas, especially light crisp cotton pajama bottoms that are full length pants. With an accurate sizing chart, or maybe someone can tell me how the sizing runs at a particular store. (Target is out because the sizing varies so much and I don’t want to deal with returns right now.) Usually I’m a size small or medium and have a 30” inseam. I checked LL Bean and Lands End but they don’t seem to have spring/summer stock. I’m having trouble finding stores that do :(.

    4. J.Crew’s Vintage Pajama set is nice, crisp cotton. I’ve had my set for three years and it’s held up nicely. I have a 31″ inseam and usually wear a S or XS at J.Crew, and I bought the small to have a bit of room and they fit very nicely.

    6. I bought Boden’s, on the recommendation of someone here, and am in love. High quality poplin with pockets, and nice details like contrast lining. Very well made. They run true to size (same as J Crew pant sizes, for example). Second best, LL Bean, especially if you can find the seersucker fabric ones. J Crew is a distant third, the quality is much lower. Brooks Brothers were surprisingly not that high quality, and weirdly cut — I returned them. Can you tell that poplin pajamas are kind of my thing?

  21. Good morning! Can any of you shopping ninjas help me find a peacock blue dress shirt with buttons down the front (wording this request awkwardly due to that repetitive difficult poster…you know the one).

    My brother is organizing a “then and now” virtual collage via Photoshop for my mom’s birthday. We’re all trying to find outfits to match ones we wore for a Sears portrait back in the day. I’m finding plenty of shirts in white, pink, and French blue, but not much else.

    1. Check ThredUp and select “Teal” as the color you’re looking for in tops. Peacock blue is “my color” – every time I wear it, I get tons of compliments – but it’s not popular right now with manufacturers, and so everything I have in that color I have gotten from ThredUp. You can also check Poshmark but I find it’s harder to find specific colors in their search.

    3. I’m confused about the working awkwardly due to repetitive poster part and also intrigued due to lack of any social interaction!

      1. We had (maybe still have?) a creepy commenter who always wanted to talk about professional women in the type of shirt that has buttons in the front who was widely considered to be fetishist troll.

      2. There was someone posting about that style of shirt constantly for a while, who seemed to be doing it out of a less-than-appropriate fixation with them. Kat had to do a lot of comment-policing over it, and I didn’t want to attract that sort of nonsense.

        1. Thanks for explaining-so strange and understandable not to want that creep commenting!

    5. You can find several dark teal shirts at land’s end. If you need that particular feature that we’re not mentioning, have a look at the uniform shirts in “french blue”, could that work? Or there’s dark teal a man’s shirt with the feature in courduroy, and without in a chino material. Use blue in the colour filter.
      Also a man’s oxford at Everlane and a very dark green silk shirt at Arket. Navy at Uniqlo.

  22. Now that I’m working from home, possibly for a long time to come, I’m amazed at how annoying the street noise outside my building is. Any recommendations for white noise machines – or other sound-dampening strategies?

    2. You can look into ways to soundproof your windows – inserts, caulking, or even replacement.

      1. Do you have personal experience with that? My apartment building has outlawed outside contractors for the time being, which is why I was asking about smaller solutions. Of course, even ordering from amazon can be challenging now…

        1. Weatherproofing strips might help a little if you’ve got large gaps. They’re super easy.

    4. I had this issue too, but then realized aside from some minor construction, it wasn’t street noise but rather neighbors (a lovely combination of standing on their patio screaming into a speakerphone/Zoom call, repeatedly slamming their door many times an hour, blasting religious services and/or singing with all the doors and windows open, kids throwing balls against the side of my home, etc.). Talking to them helped somewhat. Worth investigating the source of the noise if you are not 100% sure.
      If it is really bad, I’ll use earplugs and/or a Homedics noise machine. I also put artificial hedges on my patio and they seem to absorb some of the noise and also prevent them from staring into my home like they apparently like to do if I have my shades up.

      1. Nope, definitely cars. And hedges in Midtown Manhattan would be tough : ) but I’ll investigate Homedics, thanks

    5. Try the White Noise app; it has a lot of different sounds (I use “brown noise” to sleep in a hotel room); I think there’s a free version with ads of some kind, but the pay version is only a few dollars.

    6. My neighbors are spending seemingly all day mowing grass that hasn’t grown, so I’m starting to think it’s to escape their spouses…earplugs are all that helps.

  23. Now is the time when I usually swap out my winter clothes in my closet for my summer ones (small closet – I store the offseason stuff in another space). I’m going to pack up my work clothes. I just want them out of my closet and my boss has said we’re probably not going back to office before October. This provides a weird sense of relief to me and I don’t know why.

    1. I just ordered some on sale machine washable Fall and Winter items to fill some of my cool weather casual wear gaps, which is an admission I think we will still be largely WFH.

  24. Any recs for a career counselor? When this is over, I’m finished with law. I want as close to a 9-5 job as I can get, but I don’t have any idea what I actually want to DO. I haven’t really thought about it since I was 6 years old and wanted to be Lois Lane (which obviously did not pan out).

    1. No recs, but I’m in the EXACT SAME BOAT (minus the Lois Lane lol), so following with interest!

    2. I can’t help with the counsellor but can recommend a book that I’ve found helped – Leap Year by Helen Russell. The first chapter especially, which is about work, has some great exercises.

    3. Try aptitude testing with Johnson O’Conor Research Foundation. I did this almost 35 years ago, when I was literally ready to quit my BigLaw job to become a mail carrier. The testing highlights strengths and weaknesses, but also provides information that is kind of, “our testing shows that individuals with a profile similar to yours are successful in these fields.” The testing helped me pivot from my very narrowly focused BigLaw position into a very different type of legal practice based on specific considerations. I like my work more than almost anyone I know, and I have been at it for a long time. I don’t know what the cost is these days, but the information I received from the testing really helped me.

    4. Long time lurker here. Ditto to what you said! Just ran into Leave the Law blog, which seems to offer this type of get out of law counseling. Pursuing their website lately. Keep us posted on any in roads you make please.

  25. Are people in your area giving up on social distancing? My area is still surprisingly quiet which I’m glad for. I’m in N Virginia in Clarendon and I had thought it would be younger folks hanging out 24-7 since they are so young that they’re lower risk. But it really hasn’t been that way at all. I think many went home initially to stay with parents esp when grad school ended and those that are around seem like they’re still home watching movies and playing video games because they really aren’t even outside that much — empty sidewalks.

    It’s more middle age/families in the suburbs that seem like they’re starting to say NBD as I keep hearing people tell me — oh we saw my brothers family for Easter but it’s ok we ate outside; or kids playing with neighbor kids while adults sit out by the fire pit. I realize they’re mostly doing 6 ft apart, staying outdoors etc so it’s fine. But as the weeks go by and the attitudes get more lax, I say in 1 more week people will be fine with the neighborhood kids playing basketball w one sweaty ball. This would be “fine” but for the fact that cases are still going up here.

    What are you seeing?

    1. Daily totals of new reported infections are still rising in VA, despite the fact that IMHE says we should have peaked weeks ago. I am in central VA. My neighbors, many of whom are health care workers, have never taken social distancing seriously. Since the stay-at-home order was imposed, kids have been roaming the streets in packs, teens have been openly hanging out with friends and romantic partners, people have been playing tennis and pickleball in groups, neighbors have been hosting overnight guests, people have had church services in their driveways, and there have been numerous large backyard and front-yard parties. I am beginning to despair that our state will ever be able to get this virus under control because people are just so stupid.

      1. I don’t think that these people are being stupid though. My guess is that the were hard-core distanced for a while, then loosened up a bit. And they are probably not where the spread is or even close to it.

        1. Our county has one of the higher per-capita infection rates. These people are exposed at work. And they have not been distancing at all, ever. They are stupid.

        2. Anonymous at 11:20 reported that they have not been social distancing at all. This isn’t hard to believe based on all the news reports we’ve all seen about people who believe that restrictions don’t apply to them.

      2. Do we live in the same neighborhood? Same story here. It’s infuriating. Look, I’m sick and tired of lockdown, too, but the more people don’t follow the rules, the longer we have to do this.

      3. The issue with VA is that we went from testing 2500 people per day to about 5400 people per day late last week, so I would absolutely expect the absolute case numbers to rise. Fairfax County (largest pop in the state) reported a record high total deaths this weekend…because they reclassified deaths from earlier in April. Meanwhile, hospitalizations are steady or down, and the numbers of those in ICU or on ventilators are both steadily down. Vent utilization is 20% of capacity now. So….I think we have no idea how many cases Virginia has or has ever had, but our hospitals are in good shape. FWIW. (And I’m still social distancing and mask wearing. In my ‘hood, it’s the older folk who I see congregating and not wearing masks.)

      4. I’m in CA in a relative hotbed, but same. It seems like people are either taking it seriously or not. Huge packs of kids/multiple families playing soccer or whatever in parks this past weekend. Some people will walk/run right past you and not even attempt to distance. I don’t get why this has to be so hard for people – I get we are bored and miss our friends and family, but the longer people are dumbos the longer are going to have restrictions on what we can do.

    2. My state lifted our stay at home order and said gatherings of up to 25 people are ok, which seems kind of crazy to me since cases in our state are still increasing if you look at the metrics on a weekly basis (we do have more testing every week, but % positive is staying the same, not going down). I’ve noticed a lot more people hanging out gradually over time, but there was a definite uptick once the stay at home order was lifted. Yesterday there were a bunch of teenagers in our neighborhood having reunions completely with screaming and hysterical sobbing. You’d think these people had gone 2 years without seeing their friends instead of 2 months.

    3. I’m in Berkeley and I feel like people are generally taking this seriously. But I still see groups of people taking walks together who I seriously doubt constitute one household. I think people are clinging to the idea that as long as they’re not together indoors they’re “social distancing.” These tend to be kids or young adults.

      There are also those handful of people who have decided that this is all BS and they’re going to do what they want, including standing right behind you at the grocery store rather than 6 feet away, refusing to wear a mask, etc. In my experience these tend to be older people, which upsets me more because at least for me, these are the people I’ve been trying to protect!!

    4. I’m in Scotland where we’re still in lockdown. In my neighbourhood, which is a mix of social housing (low income families and seniors) and homeowners (couples + young families), things are still pretty quiet. The weather has been uncharacteristically gorgeous and people are sitting outside in the gardens, going for walks, etc, but still seem to largely be maintaining distance. The parks have people walking through them and occasionally elderly people or those with young children stopping for a rest / a socially distanced hello, but nothing alarming. The local school is running a foodbank / school lunch programme and things get busier when the gates are open, but they are really good about reinforcing the give space message. The teenagers are not social distancing at all, but that’s not surprising. They also fairly regularly set fire to bins for fun, I don’t think they are particularly safety conscious.

      1. I’m in a different part of the same city. I saw a number of people sitting out in the park on Saturday including one couple on the older end of middle aged with coffees in reusable cups and croissants they’d brought from home to sit and eat looking at the cherry blossoms.
        I was on a video call with school friends yesterday and one of them who works in the ER in London had gone to visit her parents… her logic was that she hasn’t seen any patients at all for weeks (things are worse in NW England than in London now) and that both her parents are doing jobs requiring them to be out and about. The other doctor on our group chat (COVID ward in a university city you’ve definitely heard of in England) wrinkled her nose at that – so there are definitely some tensions.
        Word is that we’re going to be allowed to expand our bubbles soon to join together with another household – in my case that would be my friend 100 yards away who is also living solo and WFH. The ER doctor in my friend group yesterday was all about ‘you should just go ahead and do it anyway’ but we’re holding off until it’s actually allowed.

        1. Oh, and when I was out for a walk/groceries on Sunday I saw fewer than 10 people wearing masks, of which more than half were wearing them incorrectly. (Under the nose, completely hanging under the chin, whatever).

          1. Since wearing them on walks are optional, I see a lot of people wear it under the chin until they are going to pass others, then they pull it up where it belongs. That doesn’t seem crazy. Still protects the other people they are passing.

        2. Ah, the Edinburgh North/South divide. Red trousers versus trackies…I think because there aren’t local cafes or takeaways here, so there isn’t that temptation to go out for coffee.

    5. Eastern VA, only 4 cases here. Maybe half of people are wearing masks when they go out. Some store clerks are wearing masks, some aren’t. People are still keeping a decent amount of distance when they stop to chat. But traffic this Saturday was pretty heavy, so people are definitely moving around, even if they’re social distancing when they get wherever they’re going.

    6. IL here, where cases continue to rise. And this weekend it seems like everyone I know had parties. All were outside and “mostly” 6 feet but judging from the ones I could see from my backyard, kids and dogs were running around together and adults just had chairs 6 feet apart but didn’t worry about it when going to the grill.

      I don’t understand where people got the notion that this is okay, because I didn’t read about any loosening of social distancing guidelines in any guidance. It’s driving me nuts. Am I being too risk averse? I’m not normally that person, but I certainly would never dream of letting my young kids run around someone else’s yard at this point. And it seems like I’m in the tiny minority in this.

      1. No, you’re not too risk-averse. People are violating the guidelines and it’s frustrating because it means we all have to suffer for longer. In general, the guidelines have been very clear that the six-foot rule is for if you MUST be near others during essential errands like grocery shopping, not for all the parties you get to continue to have. I’m not sure how that thought process works – is it that people are well aware that they’re breaking the rules, but they don’t care? Do they think that their case is an exception and that they’re actually in full compliance still? Are they aware they’re breaking the rules and do care, but decided it’s worth it because reasons?

        1. Well since the restrictions are being lifted I’m not sure it means “we all have to suffer for longer.” It means more people will die though.

          2. Maybe, but I think people are getting fed up with it and after we’ve been “released” there’s going to be a lot more resistance to going back into lockdown, especially in areas that aren’t hotspots.

        2. Honestly I think it’s because many people are like — we’ve been doing this for a while, everyone is healthy in my family, I haven’t even heard of anyone getting this, so it’s not as big a deal as they say. I don’t think people really know how prevalent it is in every community even if you personally don’t know anyone.I think they are starting to see it as something that’s affecting NYC, factories/plants, nursing homes, prisons. So surely their 16 person outdoor BBQ is fine.

          2. I don’t think that they are wrong.

            Conversely, if you tell people you work in a meatpacking plant and/or nursing home, I bet people stay the F away from you and invite you to nothing. If it’s all healthcare people, I honestly would defer to them. They are dealing with this and either have gotten it or are sure that they aren’t bringing it home.

            Aren’t we all going to get it sooner or later anyway? And that will be in September when schools start or if camps start.

          3. I know some essential employees that hang out with their coworkers outside of work because they are all exposed at work anyway. So, if 3 people ride in an ambulance together all day, there is nothing wrong with those 3 people hanging out together at one person’s house. When you see people hanging out, you don’t know the story behind it.

        3. I mean literally many of us answered these questions for you last week and explained our reasoning and you just attacked us for it. You clearly don’t care to learn of understand people with different view points on this so maybe so posing your thoughts as questions.

        4. Pure Imagination, I’ve noticed that your posts lean heavily on “the rules,” as if all a mayor or governor has to do is say the word “rule” and an entire population will comply, even if it means a huge level of change and often very great personal hardship and damage. Perhaps some people — natural rule followers? — do operate like that. But many, many people don’t, particularly in the US, which ranks very high on the “individualistic” scale rather than the “communal” scale. I’m not at all surprised that people are disregarding the “rules.” I’m surprised by the fact that so many HAVE complied, for so long, to such a broad extent.

          1. Yeah, I use “rules” as shorthand for guidelines/laws/etc. The nuances vary depending on where you live. I agree that the U.S. is much higher on the individualistic scale and non-compliance with the “rules” makes sense when you look at it through that lens. It doesn’t really make sense when you consider how non-compliance will worsen the load of the virus for all of us, but as we all know, people aren’t always rational and it’s harder to think about consequences that aren’t immediate and personal.

          2. +1 to all of this, Anonymous at 12:47.

            I am truly touched by the folks who think that just because a mayor, governor, chief of police, etc. says something, that people will do it. Genuinely, I find it adorable. Those folks, like Pure Imagination, must not live where I do, where even in good times laws and regulations are regarded more as suggestions than rules. “It ain’t illegal if you don’t get caught” is something many of us grew up hearing in my part of the world. You think people who believe that are going to stay in lockdown forever because their governor says so? Think again. FYI, I am not one of those people, but I know plenty of them. Like Anonymous at 12:47, I am amazed this has lasted as long as it has.

          3. I think some people are also engaging in magical thinking, holding on to the idea that if we all follow the rules perfectly, everything will be okay.

            It won’t be. I mean by now, pretty much the only way to snuff this out (maybe) is for every single person in the US to stay completely inside for weeks, maybe have the National Guard deliver supplies or something. Healthcare workers are not allowed to go home. No carry out, no grocery shopping. And no one coming in from other countries for who knows how long.

            That’s not going to happen. I think we are going to have to get used to the idea of a higher level of risk in life, and do what we can to protect ourselves. Maybe we’ll have a good vaccine by this time next year. Maybe. But probably not enough for the whole country to be vaccinated, let alone the world.

            So worry about yourself, keep yourself safe. Handwashing and masks will help a lot. But don’t waste your time and energy keeping track of how other people aren’t doing it right. You can’t control them.

          5. “Those folks, like Pure Imagination, must not live where I do, where even in good times laws and regulations are regarded more as suggestions than rules. “It ain’t illegal if you don’t get caught” is something many of us grew up hearing in my part of the world.”

            I can’t speak for Pure Imagination, but no, I never grew up where “it ain’t illegal if you don’t get caught” was common. Can you clarify what part of the country that is / was?

      2. Whether or not you are too risk-averse is irrelevant: the lockdowns are ending one way or another this month. If you had paid any attention to the critics of the lockdowns back in March, many predicted that this would come to a de facto end in under two months. Here we are, right on schedule.

        IMHO, you cannot work against human nature. If people are going to give you about six weeks, then you better have a plan for the end of those six weeks. At this point, the question is if we can end the lockdowns in a way that still protects vulnerable populations, because the lockdowns are over within the next two weeks.

          1. How does a prediction of 3,000 daily deaths work though? I don’t understand mathematically how we could stay at that level for a sustained time, given the fact that we’ve been under 2,000 deaths per day for a while now. I feel like either R0 is around 1 or just under it now and we stay at roughly this level of illness/death for a long time, with perhaps a gradual decline, or R0 is above 1 and we will see exponential growth in new cases, meaning that if we’re having 3,000 deaths per day in June we’d be way above that by July.

          2. I agree with you, unfortunately. I didn’t take it as we will have a sustained level of 3,000 deaths per day — I took it as we’ll be up to 3,000 per day by June, and it will increase therafter.

          3. I realize this is late to the comments, but for late readers please see this quote from the Washington Post:

            “The White House and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention quickly disavowed the report, though the slides carry the CDC’s logo. The creator of the model said the numbers are unfinished projections shown to the CDC as a work in progress”

            If only the NYT and other sources didn’t have such a hair trigger for posting incomplete stories that then get repeated as the gospel truth but the internet commentariat.

        2. This is why we need a sensible, sustainable plan for a gradual easing of restrictions with targeted shutdowns and other containment measures. Unfortunately, the strategy of the federal government and most state governments seems to be “let people sit in quarantine until they’re sick of it and don’t care whether they die, then reopen everything and let them all die.”

          1. “Unfortunately, the strategy of the federal government and most state governments seems to be “let people sit in quarantine until they’re sick of it and don’t care whether they die, then reopen everything and let them all die.”

            Yes, this is the strategy currently being followed. Which is unfortunate, because things did not have to happen this way. There could have and should have been more discussion about: how long do we realistically think people WILL keep distancing, what happens when “quarantine fatigue” sets in and the restrictions no longer work to keep people apart, etc. Many public health experts apparently live in a magical world where people do what you tell them to do just because they were told by someone “in authority,” and will disregard their own self-interest, impulsivity, boredom, etc. (LOL, despite seeing people pointedly ignore decades of health advice about handwashing, avoiding soda and exercising 5 times a week). That magical world is not the world the rest of us are living in. Everyone I know is sick to death of quarantining. Some folks (myself included) are still doing it because we understand the big picture. Others have decided f-it, I’m done. Next week, more people will be done and will go do what they want…and then more people…and by mid-June regardless of what technical restrictions are still in place anywhere? The quarantine will be over. And I have not seen or heard any kind of plan for what we do then. Do we give up on restrictions entirely and let the chips fall? Do we send the National Guard into the streets against our own citizens?

          2. I don’t think this is the fault of public health authorities. I think it’s the fault of the political leaders who haven’t been listening to public health authorities, since before this pandemic began.

          3. THIS. I feel like lots of public health authorities are making proposals for a mythical population, not the actual population we have.

          4. It’s one extreme to another. There’s no concept of “things that we can do indefinitely” versus “things that are sustainable for only a short period of time.”

      3. I live in IL but borrowed a friend’s (empty) lake house for the weekend. I stopped in a grocery store in rural Wisconsin and it looked almost pre-pandemic. It was packed and very few people were wearing masks. It looked completely different from anything I have seen in IL. I think perceptions are completely different from city to suburb to country.

        1. +1. Was in Chicago yesterday – outdoors the entire time. I would say 75% of people had masks on and those who weren’t were typically running or biking. I didn’t see people walking in groups other than than what appeared to be family-groups (e.g., father/mother with a few children) and everyone easily stepped aside / social-distanced on the sidewalks, with a smile and a nod. Sorry, I am so embarrassed for the ignorant yahoos who think that social distancing and masks are such a big inconvenience. Grow up already.

    7. I’m in a suburb outside New Orleans, so definitely a hotspot. I see people beginning to relax.

      The governor has lifted some of the restrictions in our state, starting May 1. New Orleans continues to remain under a stricter stay-at-home order, but I live and work in the next parish over, which has just as many cases but is following the governor’s reopening and not implementing stricter measures.

      My boss scheduled an in-person meeting this afternoon, for the first time in about 6 weeks.

      For the past 2 weekends, my neighbors have hosted jazz fest parties, where people from multiple households (I can tell by the number of cars parked) gather in the driveway less than 6 feet apart and drink beers and listen to music.

      My in-laws have been gathering with other family members who have all been completely quarantined. Yesterday, they came over for a socially distanced visit, sitting about 8 feet away from us, outside. (We could not completely quarantine because of some medical issues that require in-person visits.)

      DH has been the person going out mostly, but he says there’s more traffic, and businesses seem more crowded, though everyone is wearing a mask.

      My parents live in another state, with a lower rate of infection. They stayed inside for about 2 or 3 weeks, but last weekend, while still under a stay at home order, they visited some friends for the weekend and had multiple social gatherings with their neighbors and friends. (ugh.) My mom is a doctor, so she knows the science, but she’s also a risk taker and a little cavalier with her health, in my opinion–she had me in medical school and hid her pregnancy so that she could do her infectious disease rotation and not get kicked out of medical school (which had happened to the pregnant woman before her).

    8. I live in the NYC tri-state area, so one that was a hard hit hot spot where cases and deaths are now declining. Most people are taking this seriously still. The only time I see people without masks (legally required) are runners in the early morning. These people are much more than 6 feet apart, so it’s fine.

      The biggest problem of non-compliance in our area is that the sports fields, tennis courts, etc. are closed and families with children or teens. are disregarding this and picnicking ,playing team sports, etc. Some go so far as to wait for the local police or town monitors to leave, and then they go on the fields. They are willingly putting other people at risk so that their kids can play on the fields with their friends.

      There will be some interesting conversations about taxes for school funding. Our taxes are very high, and 80% plus goes to the schools. Well, if teens and families and children can’t be bothered to protect the health of the taxpayers, I am far less interested in paying high taxes for their schooling.

      1. Literally what is this comment?

        First, I’m sure not every single teenager is disregarding the rules. Just like I’m sure not every taxpayer is obeying the rules. What a weird thing to suggest punishing an entire generation for the actions of a few.

        Second, glad you feel that now that your (and potentially your children if you have them) are educated that this isn’t something future generations are entitled to. Education is a right and shouldn’t be conditional. Note that if we had a more educated society we may have higher compliance because more people would understand the science. An educated society has benefits well beyond the person receiving the education.

        Third, it sounds like you don’t like your high taxes. But I’m really sick of people using this situation as an excuse to push whatever agenda they had pre pandemic.

        Fourth, we could also the tables and say that given the number of posters saying grandparents want to visit grandkids all people 65+ aren’t doing what they can to keep us all safe so the young healthy people should seriously reconsider the sacrifices we are making to protect a population that seems to not protect themselves. But that wouldn’t seem fair or reasonable.

        2. Well said! I have done some really dumb shit (I assume most people have). Just because you weren’t a teenager during a global pandemic, doesn’t mean that you would have behaved better than the kids you saw or that the current generation is somehow dumber and doesn’t deserve education.

      2. I don’t see that at all. I’ve seen people picnicking, but at great distance from one another, and clearly in family/household groups. Glad to live where I live.

    9. In my area, in the Midwest, people seem to be getting more lax. To be honest, I am one of those people. While I did wear a mask, I went to a home improvement store, Costco, and a grocery store over the weekend. The lockdown was sold to us as a short term solution to prevent a surge on hospitals, not as a long term solution until a vaccine or medicine was developed. I am in a low-risk group and have been going to work this entire time in a situation where socially distancing from co-workers is not possible, though there is less than 10 of us in this office. I am also meeting with clients, in person, on a case by case basis. I have not been totally isolated this entire time.

      At some point we must dip our toe in the waters of a return to normalcy, albeit a new version. While I am not yet comfortable flying or visiting at risk relatives, I am comfortable going into stores with a mask and trying to go about my life. I think this is the case with a lot of people. I am personally not comfortable with getting the vaccine, even if one is developed, so I am not holding out hope and waiting for that option. (FWIW, I am not an anti-vaxxer by any means, just concerned about the speed the vaccine is being developed and the possibility there are going to be unknown side effects for women of childbearing age.)

      1. How many times does this have to be explained? Lockdown was not only intended to prevent a short-term surge that overwhelmed hospitals. It was also intended to give us time to ramp up testing, contact tracing, and containment, which would prevent and not just delay many infections. We have failed to do that prep work, so it’s too soon to ease up on restrictions.

        1. “It was also intended to give us time to ramp up testing, contact tracing, and containment, which would prevent and not just delay many infections. We have failed to do that prep work, so it’s too soon to ease up on restrictions.”

          This was not the message sent out in my community and it is still not the message that is being put forth.

          At this point there’s no use in continuing to argue this. Sorry, toots: people are not going to stay in lockdown. They’re just not. End of story. Debate is over. The pro-lockdown people lost. I said this before and I’ll say it again: in regards to politicians, health experts and law enforcement, there are more of us than there are of them. The police can’t be everywhere at once. So the quarantine is effectively over; all that’s left is the technical lifting of restrictions. That’s reality. After you’re done crying in your beer about how everyone is going to diiiiie…what’s your next idea?

          1. Wow, you sound like a sociopath. Don’t come here complaining when it’s your family that might “diiiiiie” from the selfish actions of others.

          2. My next idea? I’m staying stocked up on food and toiletries so my family can stay home for another couple of months while all of you go out and spread the virus to each other. Then when someone you know dies or suffers a terrible illness with a long recovery and you get scared, you will start taking some precautions or maybe state governments will start coming up with some realistic plans to actually protect us all.

          3. She’s not a sociopath for expressing reality. People are done. Lockdowns have a clock and that clock is running out.

            My suggestion is to work with that natural end and not against it.

          4. I like to think this is Darwinism at its best — survival of the fittest. People who believe in science will stay home and not die.

            My heart goes out to the workers who will only have the choice whether to work or resign, and not even get unemployment. That’s where the $ is coming from for the stupid rallies and things; they’re organized by interests who don’t want to pay unemployment.

          6. Science is a process. One does not “believe in science” unless they have a liberal arts degree but like to play at being all scientific.

        2. People have responded many times that this was not really discussed at the beginning of lockdown. Everything was flatten the curve, flatten the curve. People are understandably getting tired of lockdown and see numbers suggesting the curve was flattened.

          1. “This was not really discussed at the beginning of lockdown.” Public health authorities were in fact discussing this topic in the responsible media. It’s just that our irresponsible political leaders were ignoring it.

          2. +1 The message from the federal government, as well as my state and local government, was absolutely that we needed to flatten the curve so as not to overwhelm hospitals. The graph with the horizontal lines for hospital and ICU capacity was shared everywhere (and is still being shared everywhere in the much-cited IHME model). There was minimal discussion of testing as a reason for the initial lockdown, and there’s been ZERO mentioning of testing during the reopening process – the justifications given have been entirely related to # of new cases and deaths and how our state’s hospital systems are doing. Maybe the attitude that testing doesn’t matter is wrong from a public health perspective, I don’t necessarily disagree, but it’s unfair to say that individual citizens are dumb for not getting a message that was never delivered.

          3. Also then blame the media, doctors and everyone else pushing the #flattenthecurve memo. I wasn’t burying my head in the sand and it wasn’t until weeks into lockdown that I heard people (including my friends who are doctors) talking about anything other than flattening the curve. Please feel free to link an article during early lockdown to prove me wrong

          4. To quote Matt Yglesias: “It’s wild to me that while a bunch of countries appear to have successfully suppressed the virus, America is just going to give up.”

            I mean, you don’t want to do lock downs anymore because “no one told you” that the purpose of the lockdowns is to suppress the virus? Are you five?

          5. No anon at 2:47 I’m responding to the posters here who are calling the general population stupid for calling for ending the lockdown now that the goal of the lockdown appears to have been accomplished and are acting as though they are somehow superior for having read medical journals on this subject rather than following reputable news sources when this started? Look, I’ll probably continue to WFH and socially distance well beyond whatever the government tells me to do but as others have pointed out, you can feel that this lockdown is going to end soon whether its sanctioned or not. Also, calling people stupid or childish is really never an effective way to bring them to your side. This general elitist attitude has me worried we’re getting four more years of the cheeto because people feel like they can talk down to people who don’t agree with them 100%

          6. “To quote Matt Yglesias: “It’s wild to me that while a bunch of countries appear to have successfully suppressed the virus, America is just going to give up.”

            I mean, you don’t want to do lock downs anymore because “no one told you” that the purpose of the lockdowns is to suppress the virus? Are you five?”

            Those countries are not the USA. We need solutions that work for the USA, for the population we have, with all our myriad quirks and subcultures and beliefs and values. Absolutely, what works elsewhere may not work here and I am surprised you, or anyone actually, is so culturally incompetent as to believe that. Are *you* five years old? Or have you just never traveled anywhere and don’t realize that yes, in fact, US citizens sure are different than people elsewhere?

        3. I agree we need sufficient testing, contact tracing, and containment. Makes perfect sense to me. However, our federal and local governments seem totally incapable of doing such a thing. They certainly didn’t take advantage of the last 4-6 weeks. So it’s hard to tell people that is what we are waiting for when there are no signs of it happening. When people hear that, it’s like they’re hearing just plan on staying in lockdown until there is a vaccine or herd immunity, which is absolutely never going to happen.

          1. The problem with this … “We need solutions that work for the USA, for the population we have, with all our myriad quirks and subcultures and beliefs and values” … is that not all subcultures in the US are equally worthy. Some of the subcultures in this country pride themselves on ignorance and on not caring about their fellow man, and we should shun and shame them, not shrug and give into them. The subcultures of people waving Confederate flags and AK-47s in Michigan, people having 100+ house parties in Chicago, and people in rural grocery stores who couldn’t be bothered to wear a mask aren’t subcultures worthy of praise.

    10. Same divide in my area. Everyone thought the young SINKs/DINKs/grad students in apartments and townhomes would be the ones flaunting the orders and the suburban families would take it seriously because gosh darn there are kids to protect. Nope. The apartment/townhome part of town is still totally quiet. It was a nice weekend and at no time did I see more than 10 people outside — spread across 5 streets so they were several hundred feet from each other. And yet in the SFH areas, it’s kids running house to house, parents set up in the driveways etc. People are having family members over at which point the visits are not strictly outdoors — if for no other reason that at some point someone who has driven 2 hrs to get to you and is spending 3 hrs at your home and has a return drive, they’ll likely use the restroom.

      My parents in NJ report the same — the families with kids age 2-13 are out socializing. The retirees are staying indoors. I think it’s just become an entertain the kids thing.

      1. Agreed. I’m in Westchester, NY, and am shocked by the number of neighbors who have completely given up with the onset of nice weather, and are standing in groups of 8 parents on a sidewalk, no more than two or three feet from each other, without masks, while their 14 kids run around together in a big group. No one is wearing masks in my little neighborhood right now, except a few 65+ year old people. It’s really bad.

  26. Does anyone have a recommendation for a bra brand for small-busted women? I’m a 32AA and cannot for the life of me find one that doesn’t cap in the cup. I prefer seamless but will take what I can get at this point.

    3. I’m a 34AA and get all my bras from aerie. They hold up for years and often have 40% off sales.

    4. Try r/abrathatfits to make sure you’re really an AA, if you haven’t done so already. A gapping cup can indicate a lot more than “too big” – it can be wrong shape or wrong size – either too big or too small!

  27. Similar to the post about grandparents and antibodies and visiting, how are people generally handling restless grandparents who want to visit ASAP? We have a six month old, and our retired in-laws who are a day’s drive away have been asking us when we would feel comfortable having them come for a couple weeks to visit. Our state just extended the stay at home order to May 30th, so our initial response was not until then. We’re also not sure if the next phase of orders will allow visits like what they are proposing.

    1. My parents live a ~6 hour drive away and are visiting next week. Our state’s stay at home order was just lifted, but even if it hadn’t been lifted, we were comfortable with them coming because my parents will be providing childcare and that was an essential purpose under the order. None of us have gone anywhere with other people in 8 weeks (we get grocery pickup and food delivery), so we’re all comfortable with the risks of mixing our families at this point and the childcare help is badly needed.

    2. Is your concern that they have the virus and don’t know it and will give it to you, that they will contract it during travel, or that you and your family are infected and will give it to them?

      Quantifying your exact concerns will help you know what to ask for from them before or while they visit.

      1. We’re not as concerned that they would give it to us since we are relatively young and healthy. However, they are coming from a state where the SIP order has been lifted, and even before then they were not exactly SIP (regular visits with immediate family mostly and some “social distancing” dinners with friends), and I wouldn’t want them to come here and possibly infect other people. And they will need to stay in an AirBnB since we live in a small apartment. I guess we could shop for them and make sure they are only interacting with us to lower that risk. We have been sheltering in place for the past 8 weeks, only leaving to go to the grocery store 2x a month and walks in our neighborhood park, so I don’t think we are infected.

        1. I would not allow them to visit since they haven’t been properly quarantined. I also wouldn’t let them come from such a distance, as they will have to visit public restrooms and probably restaurants during the trip.

          1. i was the OP in the above post. My in-laws sound like yours, but worse. Mine think social distancing is annoying, they had another couple over for dinner the other week, are going to stores more than once a week, and let my 22 year old BIL go visit his gf and then come back. and they live in NJ! we live in a state where things have started to open up, and they want to come visit and go to a restaurant. would your inlaws be willing to strictly social distance for a week, drive to you, strictly social distance at an airbnb for another week, and then see you?

          2. Our in-laws are very much alike:) Though they at least have not mentioned any plans of going to a restaurant. We are thinking of telling them that if they want to visit on 6/1, then they will need to strictly social distance for 2 weeks prior and then drive to us. We’re not as worried about the drive to us since it is through a pretty remote area, and they can limit their stops. When they get here, we may just have my husband bring them groceries and make sure they only leave their place to visit us and go nowhere else.

    4. None of us are at all happy with it, but my grandparents will not be coming to visit for Memorial Day this year. They’re in their 60s and my grandfather already has health problems related to a stroke he had about twenty years ago. We do not need them for essential purposes; the youngest of my siblings turns 16 on Sunday, and we’re getting along okay as it is. They’re in a low-spread area. We’re in a major hotspot. They usually fly, and the alternative is driving through another major hotspot. It’s just not safe. We are hoping to be able to visit them for Thanksgiving, but there’s no telling what it’ll be like then.

      They’re not fans of social distancing (who is?) but they also really don’t want to die. My grandfather worked in law enforcement and is very aware of mortality. I think that’s helping.

  28. Just a rant. I work in an essential business. A lot of people have been working from home for the past six weeks, but the office has stayed open. We’re in one of those states that is rushing to reopen everything.

    On Friday we got an email with a very lengthy (well thought out, IMO, other than the whole “this is all irrelevant as long as schools and daycares are closed” thing, but ya know, otherwise well thought out) plan regarding bringing people back into the office in waves. This process began today. The email had a ton of rules and suggestions regarding safety measures. The building is set up with offices around the perimeter and cubes in the middle. There was a whole section on wearing masks, especially for the employees who work in the cubes. I came in this morning and I was the only person on my entire floor with a mask, and people were staring at me like I had three heads for wearing it. And half of everyone on my floor was in the office, including a lot of the people who work in cubes. And people are standing close to each other talking, completely ignoring the section of the email that said to call or use messenger to talk to people. What is wrong with people???? GAH. This is why we can’t have nice things. Because apparently even the most basic safety precautions are too hard.

    1. Ugh, I’m sorry. So frustrating! I read an article in the NYT this morning about how some offices are exploring plastic partitions and things like that to reduce infectious disease risk at work, but how others might decide it’s not worth it to spend money like that when they can just let employees continue to stay home. The latter seems preferable for the time being given that (as you’ve clearly described), even well-thought-out measures may not be applied correctly.

    2. I’m on the other side of this type of policy — writing and enforcement — for my company. The top leaders need to walk around and tell people to comply or go home. It becomes a weird machismo thing for some people.

      1. I’m betting that top leadership at OP’s company buy into the weird machismo thing themselves. That’s what’s happening at my employer.

    4. This is why I want my company to keep us home as long as possible. My department doesn’t need to be in the office, we can WFH indefinitely. If they’re gonna have everyone wear masks, put up partitions,and still have people communicate over IM and email, just keep us home. It isn’t worth the trouble.

      1. This. We looked at what we would have to do to safely work in the office and we would effectively be working the same as WFH. Luckily, my boss is taking this very seriously and we are at least WFH through June at this point. Also, we are going to return in waves and those of us like myself who has an essential employee spouse that still goes in people’s homes will be the last to return as we have the highest risk of exposing others.

    5. Without in any way discounting your concerns (I share them and am following CDC recommendations), I have talked to a fair number of people whose attitude is “we are all going to get it . . . the point of social distancing and flattening the curve was not to overwhelm the health care system.” And who figure that the phased re-opening is a way to space out who gets it. Their attitude is “now it is my turn.” And honestly – since we cannot shut the whole country down until there is a vaccine and I think that the containment fight in the US is lost, I cannot say they are wrong.

      I was talking to my Dad yesterday (early 70’s and pretty healthy) and he essentially said that at his age he is not going to hole up for years “because I only have so many good, active years left.” HIs attitude is pretty fatalistic that 60-80% of the population is going to get infected and anyone who believes otherwise is living in dream world. My Mom has managed to keep him inside by saying that they will come up with better treatment options but I do not think that will survive the summer.

      1. I agree that the US is not living in complete lockdown until there’s a vaccine and I fully understand that elderly people don’t want to lose years of good quality life (my parents are the same way). That said, I think it’s very possible, if not probable, there will be emergency authorization for a vaccine for the elderly by the end of 2020. I am encouraging my parents to do their best to stay home at least through this winter. I think widespread vaccination of everyone will be harder to achieve, both because of the difficulties in producing at volume and because for a 20 year old or even a 40 year old you have to make damn sure the vaccine is 100% safe before the risk-benefit analysis tips in favor of vaccinating. But for a 70 year, the risk calculus looks a lot different, and it’s a much smaller number of people to vaccinate. Honestly, I’d be surprised if we don’t have an emergency vaccine for the elderly by late 2020/early 2021. And I’ve been a pessimist about everything virus-related in general.

        2. We have never successfully made a vaccine for a coronavirus, and this is not the first time we’ve tried.

          1. That’s kind of a tangent because we’ve never put anywhere near this much effort and money into making a coronavirus vaccine. In terms of effort, the only comparable disease is HIV, but that virus is completely different. Theoretically at least, a COVID vaccine will be much easier than an HIV vaccine.

      2. You know you can get it multiple times right? It’s not clear that you can build immunity to it right now

        In addition to spreading out the impact on the healthcare system the idea is to provide fewer opportunities for the virus to transfer. Each person has to transmit it to 1 person or “fewer” for this virus to go away.

  29. We have a pretty large outdoor area that is all pavers. The weeds that grow between them are nuuuuts.

    I 100% intended to re-sanded between the pavers before the current spring growth, but I swear it went from zero to jungle in about 7 days while I wasn’t looking. Pulling them up by hand would take hours I just don’t have. Do I just hire a local kid for like $10/hr? Anyone have pro tips for this kind of home maintenance?

    1. I have a weed torch and burn them all. Yeah it doesn’t get the roots if you have stubborn perennial weeds, but it sounds like these are new weeds for you and it’s quick and fun to use.

      2. Was going to say the same. I actually got one of these for my dad a few years ago as a Father’s Day present, and he LOOOOVES it. I don’t need one, but if I did, his enthusiasm would have sold me on it for sure.

    2. Herbicide, then pull them out by hand? Herbicide isn’t great when you have weeds growing among plants you like, but it works when you have weeds growing where you don’t want any plants.

      1. I’m usually pro whatever help you can get in a garden, but the herbicide you’re talking about us Roundup and it’s a proven carcinogen, mainly for the person applying it. I wouldn’t use it. Check the giant tort award given to a landscaper in the last couple of years.

    3. Boiling water works really well. You might need a fair amount if you have a large area, but it’s pretty easy.

    4. Pull them out by hand then put mulch (the chunky woody kind, not the partially soil kind) about two to three inches thick on the ground to prevent sprouts (new seeds won’t reach the soil and any sprouted seeds will be choked out by darkness). This has kept my garden largely weed free for years.

    5. Pour salt on the weeds! (As long as you are sure you will never want anything to grow in that area ever again.)

  30. Live in an apartment. They just called. They need to come in and look in my utility closet because there is a leak somewhere in my line of apartments. They wear a mask and gloves but are obviously going apartment to apartment. I feel sick to my stomach. Higher risk. I go out once in 3 wks for groceries and now this. It’s a 1 bed. All I can do is open the door, scurry into my kitchen, they walk thru the living room to the sun room, do their thing, and then all I can so Lysol off what they touch + generally spray Lysol on the carpet not that it assures it’s where they stepped. And then open sunroom windows to circulate the air. Anything else I can do?

    I feel ridiculous because I know people in houses having to have repair people in and this is life but it’s so hard to be so scared all the time.

    1. Gently, living in quarantine is not a choice, but choosing to live in this much fear is absolutely a choice. I think you’ve posted here several times expressing similar concerns and gotten some really good suggestions and advice for dealing with anxiety. Have you tried any of those suggestions?

    3. If they are wearing gloves and mask the risk of contamination is low. If it makes you feel better, let them in to do their thing, then go out and walk in the fresh air at a distance from people for an hour – or more you seem like you need to get outside (so that any lingering virus in the air will fall to the ground) and sanitize any items they may have touched when you come back

    4. If having them come in causes you anxiety, you could offer to FaceTime the closet for them first. If they just need a quick look that might be enough to rule out an actual visit.

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