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Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Short-Sleeve Rib-Knit T-Shirt Dress

A light-skinned woman with long brown hair wearing a midi-length, short-sleeved, dark pink dress and sandals

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I have two of these dresses from Target and have been loving them for easy WFH outfits or very casual days in the office. For home, I just throw one on with a pair of earrings and my slippers, and I’m good to go for the day. For the office, I’ve been adding tights, boots, and a slouchy sweater blazer to add both structure and warmth.

I will note that they’re a bit more form-fitting than I was expecting, so I sized up and was happy with how it looked.

The dress is on sale for $14 at Target and comes in women’s sizes XS–XXL and plus sizes 1X–4X. It also comes in black, brown, heather gray, yellow, mint, and hot pink.

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Sales of note for 12.5

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241 Comments

  1. What do you think about the mass farewell emails employees send out before their last day of work? I’m leaving my first job soon and am wondering if I should send one. Would it be rude not to? I work at a large company, so I would limit the recipient list to colleagues I’ve actually worked with.

    FWIW, I’ve worked with staff across the company, but my resignation has only been announced within my own department. So, I’m not sure to what extent staff outside my department know I’m leaving. We are still all working from home, so in-person goodbyes are not an option.

    Do you think it’s advisable to send a farewell email? If so, any tips on what to say or not say? Alternatively, should I just send individual emails to the staff outside my department who I’ve worked with?

    1. I had a list of people I genuinely respected and enjoyed working with, and I drafted an e-mail asking them to keep in touch. My boss forced me to add another bunch of people I did NOT like or respect, because apparently that was the only way for them to find out I was leaving? (Makes no sense.) I really resented being forced to give them my contact info. Left a bad taste in my mouth.

      So I’d say to do it, assuming you can do it on your own terms. It isn’t your problem if the company is so dysfunctional that they act like resignations are a state secret.

      1. That’s so weird (and gross) that your boss forced you to add a bunch of people to your farewell email. I left a job last year at this same time, and I had a very clear list of the people I wanted to email and possibly keep in touch with, and the people I very much did not want to include in that list. I’m easily findable on LinkedIn so if someone really wanted to track me down, they could, but I definitely didn’t want to give my personal cell or email to some of the people I worked with, that seemed to be actively seeking opportunities to push colleagues off a bridge/over a cliff if they possibly could. Sorry to say but there were people I worked with whom I did not want to have my home phone number or know where I lived because they were so toxic.

        OP, my message last year was brief and essentially said, I’ve enjoyed working with all of you and I wish you all the best in the future, here’s my personal contact information if you want to stay in touch. A number of people connected with me on LinkedIn; some didn’t. I have been the recipient of several novel-length “goodbye” emails – sometimes from people I barely knew – and think it’s awkward. Shorter is better, of course positive/neutral is better (this isn’t the place to air any grievances you have). My experience is that after you leave a job, you will never see 85-95% of those people again. But I also live in a smaller city so the possibility of running into people in the community, at events, nonprofit boards, etc. is always non-zero, so I wanted to leave people with a positive parting impression.

    2. I left my job of 4 years last week. I sent 2 farewell emails – one email to my department with kind words and my contact information. I was close with probably 2/3 of my 35 person department and do plan on keeping in touch with several of them.

      I also sent a second email to partners – mostly in my agency but different departments and a few external folks letting them know I was leaving. That email
      Was pretty matter of fact, and did not include my contact info.

      I also reacted out directly to a few partners and coworkers to share some more personal kind words.

    3. yes, I’d send one to colleagues that might not be aware! Many people send on their last day but my personal recommendation is to do it a few days prior. The number of people who reply to your (soon-to-be-old) work address, even though you include your personal info in the email, is…. surprising.

    4. I am always glad to receive these, and often have occasion to dig them out 1-3 years later to reach out to the former colleague about something (often a business opportunity). I see no downside to a short and positive farewell: Dear colleagues, as many of you know Friday is my last day at Company X. I am so grateful for everything I learned during my time here. I will be transitioning to Job B in the new year. I can be reached at contact info. Happy holidays!

      Plus if it’s the norm to send them and you don’t, people will assume you left on bad terms or something weird happened.

    5. I’m so old that I remember when people sent out one-pagers on paper (and we kept those), and this was in a place with a severe up-or-out culture, so many departures were involuntary. Still, they were all pleasant and we kept them in part to remember co-workers past and their updated contact info. E-mail followed and they were very broad. I get firmwide ones now from people I’ve never heard of and it is still touching to get them. What I don’t like is sending someone an e-mail and getting a bounce-back that they are gone (and then I google). But if a person is going to a city or firm where I know someone, I usually volunteer that when I get the farewell e-mail, to help a person connect up in their new city / workplace.

      I err on the side of sending.

    6. I sent an email to a group composed of the colleagues I was sad to be leaving behind and for whom I would have given a reference in a heartbeat, basically to tell them exactly that.

    7. Depends on size of your company and culture. I had HR tell me in my exit interview specifically not to do this (company had a mass exodus going on and saw it as bad for morale). I think the smaller the company, the more reasonable.

    8. I always do, and I’d include a link to your LinkedIn, much easier way to stay connected.

    9. I send a short farewell message with my personal email address and cell phone, so people can contact me after I’m gone. I don’t think it is rude not send a farewell email message though.

    10. I’ve been getting a lot of these lately about retirements and I appreciate them all. Sometimes they are a mass email to many people announcing that they are leaving; some are more personal to select groups. I think it’s good practice to send them, especially if it’s to people that you’ve had a good working relationship with over the years and may not work directly with them now.

    11. If it’s the norm, I’d definitely do it. I found it so strange when I moved to my second law firm that folks would send emails to all ~1000 lawyers and ~4000 staff when they left, but if you didn’t, it would be weird.

      I would just thank them for the experience, maybe mention one nice thing, and include your personal contact info if you’re comfortable with it. People may call for references or with opportunities in the future.

    12. My farewell emails have always said, in a somewhat passive aggressive way, “Thank you to those of you who helped me. I will always be grateful for what I learned at X company.” I was happy not to thank those who weren’t helpful and what I learned may not have been what the job entailed but more likely who was not a good person and who could be counted on to be a rational human being.

  2. Anyone else just trying to push through to the end of today before going on holiday break?

    2. Push is relative, but yes I’m appearing busy enough and watching the clock for the most part. Come on holiday break!

    3. Yes except I am done with everything I have to do so am totally phoning it in. No RAGRETS

    4. I’m trying to push through to the end of Wednesday, but my family is off starting this afternoon. And I have the Willcocks descant to Hark the Herald Angels Sing stuck in my head. I just want to be done with work.

      1. That’s a great descant. It’s something I miss about singing in a choir – singing those fun, floating notes right at the end of midnight mass.

    6. Same. I have 1 meeting on my schedule today and am otherwise piddling around the house and cleaning my office

    7. I virtually appeared in court yesterday morning (posting a million comments here while waiting for my turn), and then went Christmas shopping.

    10. I am presenting at an all-staff town hall this afternoon so I’m just waiting around until that and then I’m out for 2 weeks.

  3. My husband would like to get me a designer purse for a special occasion. I have enough work totes so I’d like a versatile but stylish going out handle purse, crossbody or clutch. Something that would hold keys, phone and lipstick when we do date nights. He says there’s no budget but realistically I don’t want to spend more than $1000 (finances are shared anyway). Anyone have suggestions? I want to pick out a few options and send him links. Also I was thinking of getting it from The Real Real or a similar site rather than brand new (any suggestions for others?) Thanks.

    1. I feel like All Saints does well with clutches (IMO nothing else is formal; they often have chain straps so you can wear xbody or over the shoulder anyway). Also Kate Spade / Frances Valentine. I wouldn’t go super-spendy b/c thsi bag isn’t a workhorse. It’s a little delicate flower (although All Saints will be a bit more “can thrive at the rave and not be ruined”). I bought a silly beaded number at a local shop for <$100 that I love, so a local place may have something very fun.

    2. I don’t know whether you’d consider this a “designer” purse, but I just ordered the Mansur Gavriel mini cloud clutch in metallic gold as a going-out bag. It is the size you’re looking for and converts between a clutch and a crossbody. I like the crossbody functionality for weddings, etc. where you don’t want to leave your bag lying around at the table when you get up to mingle and dance.

      1. I was going to recommend the bigger size. I have gotten SO much use out of it. It’s just as perfect to take to a wedding as it is to a casual night out. I had bought in the biscotti color to be practical and then nabbed a beautiful baby blue one on sale over the summer. The feel is so wonderful. I have a lot of bags that cost more (huge Chloe collection, one YSL, several Balenciaga, etc) But I get WAY more use from my MG clouds.

    4. I get bored of “going out” purses too quickly to drop $1000 on just one. I might ask for a few less-expensive pieces. Think a cork or straw clutch for summer, black suede for winter, and maybe a “millennial pink” or cognac leather for a year-round neutral?

    5. I like the Louis Vuitton Favorite bag– it’s dressy but versatile. I don’t recommend getting a bag from TRR; they’re known to have fakes slip through. Fashionphile or Yoogi’s Closet are much better. For a non flashy bag, consider the Fendi Peekaboo. Those come in a variety of sizes and strap options. YSL has the Kate Bag which is pretty but I don’t like the YSL leather as much as other top brands.

    6. I asked for a Polène crossbody from my husband for Christmas and can’t WAIT to get it.

        1. I got myself the No. 1 to celebrate an achievement. I am thinking I also need the tiny version for small-bag occasions.

    7. Aspinal of London is having a sale, if you enjoy a slightly retro style their bags are GORGEOUS and slightly unexpected.

    9. I like L.K. Bennett for evening clutches. They are really good quality and don’t have logos.

    10. I’d do a YSL LouLou camera bag (preferably the black on black since it makes the logo less in your face). It’s about $1200, a good roomy small size and is sooooo prettyyyyy. One of those bags you can wear as a shoulder bag or a crossbody and wouldn’t look bad with dressier clothes.

    11. It is going to be difficult to find something new that is nice under $1000 but I have had pretty good luck with “Like new – no damage” goods on RealReal so I would definitely start there.

    12. I’ve never seen enough of a discount on TRR to make it worth the secondhand aspect – I’d rather pay a few hundred more to know it’s actually real and to have some recourse if a strap breaks, etc., not to mention returns.

    13. Check out Polene. It is a French brand and they are not super expensive, but they make beautiful bags, including in small sizes.

  4. Is anyone here an ALJ or judge for a specialized court (like bankruptcy)? If so, how did you get there and any tips for interviewing? Do you find it engaging? How’s the work life balance?

    1. My friend’s parents are ALJs in our state’s child welfare agency. They love it and find it rewarding, but after doing this for 20+ years, friend’s mom can only sleep with the lights on and TV on loudly. So ALJ part — great — but be careful with subject area.

    2. I know a bunch of ALJs for Social Security disability claims. Good work life balance, but very sad stories to hear day in and day out. Typical byzantine application process for federal employment.

    3. Bankruptcy judges in my district practice bankruptcy law for decades, generally for large firms but very occasionally for well-known debtor firms, and make political and professional connections, as well. There is not another path into that job.

    4. I have a friend that is a judge for for immigration court (I think?). She loves it so much, and has worked part time since the beginning. She raised her kids as a judge, still loves it, and has amazing benefits. Lives in the Bay Area.

    5. I am. I got to know many on the bench and applied once I had sufficient support from the bench. If you get an interview, do practice interviews with those from the bench you support your application. They have been through it before and it will help, Those interviews are unique and they are looking for very different answers than other positions. The work gets emotional and can be very draining. For work life balance, I have a lot of rulings to write, which I usually have to do on the weekend because my days are spent almost entirely on the bench. Increases in pay and rare and government can be really annoying, especially in being slow to adopt new or good technology. Cases don’t stop for holidays and thus I am working all next week. Even with all this, best job I ever had.

    6. Yes. If you can post a burner email, I will reach out to connect offline. I had a mentor in the process and would be glad to pay it forward.

  5. I need dispassionate observers to weigh in on canceling my vacation. Planned to be away 2 weeks from East Coast to Hawaii beginning after xmas. Spouse & I were boosted about a month ago with our 3rd moderna shot and are both young. But, we live with a moderately immunocompromised family member. We were planning on only outdoor dining, wearing KN95s, and testing on our return.

    But with omicron I’m thinking we should cancel our trip… right? Things are moving so fast I basically have whiplash, so please don’t be too harsh on me.

    1. You are vaccinated, so and b’oosted, so I would go. Plus, since your married, you don’t have to worry about meeting and potentially bringing strange men back to your hotel at night. Just be carful not to kiss people even if that is customary in Hawaii. They will still give you a lei upon your arrival @ your hotel, and then you should still wear your mask, even if they ask if you want a photoshoot of it. I wish this pandemic was over already, b/c I have not met any decent men, and with Omicron, will not do so either until the spring. FOOEY !

    2. I wouldn’t. I canceled my trip (to the Keys) last winter but I’m not canceling my trip (to KY) this winter.

    3. Can you stay elsewhere (an Airbnb?) for 3-4 days on return and then test before seeing your family member?

      3. This is the answer. If you come back a couple days early, you can rely more on your test.

    4. I wouldn’t cancel personally. Flights are pretty safe with the mask mandate and you’ll be doing low risk stuff while there. We have an unvaxxed 3 year old and have been incredibly cautious this whole pandemic (she hasn’t been indoors around anyone not in a mask other than parents and grandparents since March 2020), but we went to Hawaii this summer and it felt so safe (they take the pandemic really seriously there!) and was the tiny glimpse of normalcy we needed to get us through another year of this. We’re booking 2022 travel the day she gets her vaccine.

    5. Can you quarantine when you return to stay separated from the family member until you can reasonably test negative?

    7. You don’t say who the family member is or if you could avoid them until you make sure it’s safe. I would go with the extra precautions suggested above.

      1. It’s my parent. They don’t need help with tasks of daily living, which is helpful. When delta was beginning to surge earlier this fall, our family discussed the idea of spouse & I staying staying mostly isolated on the upper level of our home and masking to use the kitchen while awaiting test results upon our return. Now given the extra-contagious nature of omicron (I’m reading 2x delta) that doesn’t seem like it would add any level of protection and we should consider an additional quarantine away from home. Thanks for your advice.

        2. You could do a version of test to stay (a school protocol for schoolchildren with known exposure). With kids, they do a test on days 1, 3, 5 and 7 after a known exposure. You could test counting from your day of return. If the test comes back positive you’d have to isolate from your parent more meaningfully but it would provide significant protection to them.

          1. Not sure how well test to stay will work in the Omicron era. Anecdotally, seems a lot of the Omicron outbreaks in Europe have been at parties where everyone in attendance had a negative test within 24 hours.

    8. I think it also depends on your level of concern or acceptance of COVID. Are you someone who will be anxious until 2 weeks or negative tests after the trip and/or feel guilty if you get it? Or are you someone who will say “oh well, I could have gotten it at the grocery store, this is part of life in a pandemic”? I don’t think what you’re planning is inherently more likely to introduce risk to you aside from the airports (where I would wear N95s the whole time to feel better). That said, I’m definitely in the former category so introducing risk from purely optional activities can sometimes be tough for me. If you yourself are healthy and unconcerned for your own health, I don’t think it’s that risky, but see the concern about the other family member. Do you have another place you could stay for a week upon your return, or the ability to quarantine in your own home?

      1. Very much anecdata, but my spouse is a commercial pilot who has had to fly throughout the entire pandemic. He wears a mask all through airports and until getting to his hotel room. In various cities, he will walk or dine outside, or order room service to eat in his room. Pre-Covid we got every virus in the country, and we were all very sick in Feb 2020 (when no one was testing for Covid). Since March, even with two kids in elementary, we have only gotten one cold.

        (We spend our risk dollars on his job and the kids in school. I now wfh permanently. Otherwise we don’t do indoor activities without a mask.)

        1. This is why I hope masks never fall completely out of use. I don’t ever want to get on an airplane or walk through an airport without a mask again. I used to get so sick every time I flew.

    9. This really depends on your risk tolerance and that of your immunocompromised family member. I live with a high risk person and we take no unnecessary risks (no indoor dining, no events, masked every time we step out of the house) but that is based on our comfort level. You have to do what you are comfortable with and no one else knows your comfort level. You also know to what level you need this vacation. Sometimes benefits outweigh risks but again, you are the only one who can answer these questions for your life.

      1. It’s a good point that my family member needs to be involved in deciding. My spouse is going to be very disinclined to cancel bc he needs the vacation even more than me. On the other hand, it’s my parent and I would be miserable if I infected them. Thanks for your thoughts, it’s helpful to prompt myself to think this through before we discuss as a family.

    10. If something goes wrong and you do need medical care, the Hawaii hospitals are likely to be overwhelmed with the likely case spike. I would check hospital capacity on your island before making this decision.

    11. I think it really depends on how immunocompromised the person is and what their doctor says? If the person is currently in chemo or something like that, you’ll probably need to find a way to isolate for a week after returning home. If you’re using immunocompromised as a synonym for higher risk (as many people here seem to) you can probably just go. My dad is 71, obese and has multiple co-morbidities including cancer (not being treated with chemo) and his doctor is practically begging him to travel because the odds of death for a triple vaxxed person are very low and my dad isn’t going to live forever, even without a pandemic.

      1. I guess no harm in saying on this forum: they have mild primary immune deficiency as well as COPD, asthma, and a history of stroke. More so than death, I worry about hospitalization, as they have a hard time navigating medical environments without me, are relatively young, and have a history of hospital-acquired infections. Writing this out I’m not sure whether I’m persuading myself it’s better or worse than I think… Thanks for your advice either way.

    12. I would still go. And maybe quarantine for a couple of days when you return and get a test before seeing your family member.

    13. I wouldn’t cancel. You still have to be masked in the airport and on the plane, and Hawaii still has a mask mandate in place (it is not just indoors; there are situations where you have to wear them outdoors as well). I don’t know where you’re going, but we were on the Big Island in October and it was very easy to find places for outdoor dining, or get groceries and have picnics (which is what we did a lot). The Big Island was having labor shortages, no different than a lot of places, but I think theirs are somewhat worse because there’s obviously a very limited labor supply to begin with (we also heard from a couple of business owners we talked to that a lot of young people had moved back to the mainland when travel was basically shut down because most of the jobs disappeared, and many of them haven’t moved back yet, or may not move back at all). So check and make sure anywhere you’re going to go is going to be open (since this is peak season for them, I imagine places are more likely to be open now than when we went in October, which is their off-season). Also, read through the Hawaii Travel website and make sure you fully understand what you have to do to be admitted to Hawaii as a vaccinated person. It is not hard to put the documentation together but it’s not the most intuitive process in the world, and you will have to quarantine (or leave) if you don’t follow the steps (bringing your proof of vaccination card is not enough).

      As for your family member, could you take rapid tests with you and test before you leave, and/or (as someone else suggested) go to an AirBNB for a few days before going back home?

    14. I would go, and test when you return.

      Also, does the family member have any thoughts? I worked hard to protect particular family members in 2020. Now that they are vaccinated, they have no problems with seeing me after travel, seeing my kids when they have colds, etc. They experienced a major threat to their lives at the start of the pandemic, and now that they are vaccinated they want to live them to the fullest.

      1. Thanks, No Face. I will need my family member to weigh in for sure but trying to get my own thoughts in order first. (Other than my main thought: AAHHHH!!)

        They have been fairly anxious throughout the pandemic–I would say objectively beyond what their health conditions warrant. On the other hand, they are relatively young and who am I to judge their fear of serious illness?

        1. Then they can go stay in a hotel on your return. Do not sacrifice your happiness and marriage.

          1. I love staying in hotels and would happily use this as an excuse to enjoy one for a few days when I returned.

        2. You are being very thoughtful in a crazy time. The idea of staying somewhere else for a few days when you return is a really good one.

        1. I’m 100% serious though. I’m in NYC and test positivity doubled in 3 days. It feels very March 13, 2020 here right now.

          1. Yeah, I think things look really different in NYC now than the rest of the country. Every single restaurant in my neighborhood has closed due to positive case among staff, and our restaurants require staff and guests to be vaccinated.

          2. Yup, also in NYC and so many people I know have been testing positive in the last few days. Totally anecdata, but everyone I personally know who tested positive this week did so because they had symptoms or a known exposure — none have learned of it because of routine or pre-travel testing. So far everyone is just mild-moderate sick, and I’m hoping it stays that way! I know that Covid can get more serious, or turn into long covid, well after diagnosis so it’s nerve racking. We tested yesterday evening just in case and are awaiting results. I agree with you, it feels very March 13, 2020 — and I’ve been semi-comfortable with being out and about from vaccination until this week. My family member who has no medical conditions but a lot of anxiety around covid is completely locked down again.

          3. Honestly, it feels nothing like March 2020 to me. Doctors have so much more knowledge about how to treat covid, there are vaccines that are largely preventing hospitalization and death, many more people are wearing masks. I agree that is a bit unsettling (and annoying) to see cases rise so quickly, but in my mind, this feels nothing like March 2020.

          4. NYCer, I’m glad you feel that way and logically you are correct – there’s no question we’re in a much better place than we were in 2020. I think what is bringing it back for me is the feeling that my comfort level has changed dramatically in the span of a few days – it feels like things are just changing very fast. This is partially because I am supposed to see my elderly parents for Christmas next week and am suddenly questioning the safety of things I had started to take for granted again; I’m not super concerned about my own health as me, my husband and son already had breakthough COVID once in August.

      3. I agree. I think that if you make sure you’re negative when you leave you’re actually much safer doing all those activities in Hawaii than you would be doing them in NYC.

    16. I don’t think there is a right or wrong decision here. It’s very tough right now. *hugs*

    18. I would absolutely go. If this were me I’d test when I got back but otherwise enjoy the trip.

    19. I’m in a sort of similar situation. I live with my parent who has a primary immunodeficiency and is severely disabled. They could never be left alone, as they need around the clock care. When he is admitted to the hospital, I have to stay with him as a primary caregiver, or he would quickly develop complications (hospitals are very dangerous places for the severely disabled) and to manage his care (nursing/staff can’t manage it ).

      I am not traveling, but my two siblings are traveling from their cities, flying. They have been wearing masks everywhere — indoors with strangers all the time. They will do “rapid” PCR tests they day before they fly. When they arrive, they will retest on Day 1 and Day 3 with rapid antibody tests at home. We are debating whether they should stay at hotels/quarantine until the Day 3 tests come back negative. At a minimum, if they come to the house, they will wear masks (N95) the whole time, as will my parent, if they can tolerate it. But if all tests come back negative, and my Dad wants it, people will take off masks.

      In your situation, I would isolate for the first few days when you return, as it sounds like your family member can manage being alone, and I would do the testing regimen another poster recommended of retesting on Day 1/3/5/7 and if you every have ANY symptom, if you plan to re-enter the home early.

      There is no right/wrong way at this point. My parent doesn’t have a lot of time left, I fear, so he needs to see his family. He is triple vaxed, on IVIG, and I know I can go to the hospital with him if he gets sick.

  6. Golly, I love doing a year-end self-evaluation for a job in which I’ve only just completed a month of detailed training and have touched literally zero deliverables.

    3. So, it’s a check-the-box exercise, yes? Don’t spend a lot of time on it. No one will expect to see that in your first month of employment you moved mountains. They need to check the box that you participated in review; you need to check the box and put something in so they can check the box. Don’t overthink it.

    4. Have the confidence of a mediocre white man! Never more important than in self-evaluations.

  7. Does anyone work for a recruiting company? My younger brother just got an offer to be a recruiter and is excited about it. There was a connection there (who works in accounting, so different function than “recruiting”), so looking for any advice, particularly in an economy where there are jobs but no people to fill them with. He has a broad college network, so I’m imagine he will be hitting up his friends with job leads and he’s got good people skills, so I’m hoping it’s a good fit (or least a good fit for now).

    1. I was a legal recruiter for 6 months and I hated it. Until and even possibly after you are established it is a GRIND. People don’t love it when you cold call them and that for me was an incredible morale killer. If you haven’t been hired to be the exclusive firm for the search you also have to work really hard to establish relationships at companies/firms so anyone will open your emails. I really wanted to help people and find them good jobs and help companies/firms find good candidates! But I was one of a million recruiters with no fancy law degree so no one cared. You also need to be okay with interacting with a lot of people and also being a self-starter. I was basically left to do my own thing after some initial training.

      This was years ago and obviously the scenario is different now to some extent, but it wasn’t for me. You have to hustle HARD to be successful if it’s commission based which I suspect it will be after an initial probation period.

    2. Recruiters are working a ton right now – and have been for most of the last 1.5. He should be prepared for a ton of work as recruiters are currently working really hard to fill a lot of empty spots. he should definitely have a good handle of how his comp works, as some roles are commission/incentive heavy so he would get paid only when he is successful in placement.

  8. It’s not quite imposter syndrome, but I’m in BigLaw and realizing that wow, many families of origin are so different than mine (happy large poor rural family in flyover USA; OTOH, I can relate to having a place in the country to go to during COVID, but mine is a leeeeetle bit different than theirs). Like generations of a family go to Ivy League universities, all work in BigLaw, have no problem paying back loans (if they even have loans). My loans are larger than the cost of the houses my family lives in. I’m wondering if I can relate the NFL players who are grateful to get league minimum for 2-3 years and then go back home and be the gym teacher and the coach vs the Manning family that makes top football jobs a thing generation after generation and isn’t worried about dying broke or what they will do next. [So I’m busy planning for: how much can I save so when I’m doing real estate closings and wills and looking at selling a lot they will build a Publix on in 2-3 years, I will be able to make that math work]. I just feel very, very not from around here sometimes.

    1. Blue collar roots here as well. My Covid cabin is an old hunting cabin, not a place at Tahoe that looks like a Kimpton. I found other outsiders to the WASP life to be the best allies, and as a result have a vary diverse group of work friends.

    2. This sounds hard, and I think your feelings are completely understandable. You’re obviously a smart, capable person, otherwise, you wouldn’t have landed in your position. If you have any inkling of feeling “less than,” just remember that part.

    3. OP here — I don’t mean to throw any shade on the Mannings. I just wonder how it is for them, knowing a lot of their teammates come from poverty and were probably cheated out of a real college education, so they really may have nothing to fall back on when football inevitably ends. IDK if the NFL addresses that (so these kids likely don’t have loans the way new lawyers who have to borrow do, but in so many ways they are much, much worse off for being prepared for the next 50 years of their lives). For BigLaw, it’s just so much like oh, I’m never going to run into my parents and future kids at the Princeton reunion (which is fine, but seeing people where that happens is just jaw dropping still a bit) or the kid the parents were worried about (so mom stopped working to be more present during high school) got into Harvard (and I know there are legacy preferences, but I feel like they don’t go very far in the present day, especially if you have $ but not donate-a-building $).

      1. Please realize that there are a lot of people with backgrounds like you in biglaw, we just don’t tend to talk about it. You’ll notice it subtly over time – the people that pick up the tab for their parents vacation, the people that still go to AutoZone and change their car’s battery. So, yeah, give it time and you will realize there is more of your flock here. You will also realize that, more often than not, the generations of wealth come hand in hand with generations of trauma and not happy families. I know plenty of people that would trade their trust fund for a mom that would drive across three state lines when the stuff hits the fan.

        1. +1, I was one of these people. While I had an advantageous and privileged childhood – the whole world of country clubs and connections and legacies (that go back to attending the same private high school, oh Philly) and dad’s friend doing me a favor by sending some legal work to my firm, etc – is and remains a mystery. TBH I found that side of firm life and associated snobbery to be repellent, and is one reason I bailed.

          1. I felt this way when I taught at an Ivy League university. Some stereotypes are well-deserved.

        2. Eh-trauma exists in families of any social status, more often than not. It’s just harder to criticize the trauma inflicted by poor and middle class parents who are struggling to make ends meet.

          1. Yeah I am still amazed at how different the families of most of my friends are from mine, but not in a generational wealth way: In an emotionally functional way. Like, some of my friends are real “Daddy’s girls,” and my dad never paid attention to me and doesn’t to this day. I still vividly remember him looking at me blankly when I was about 9, and asking “How old are you now?” And when I was grown up and married to somebody who was admittedly kind of horrible (gee, wonder why, given what I saw growing up), my mom and dad decided they would rather break up with me than deal with him. So, yeah. We’ve all got our trauma.

    4. I’m surprised so much inter-generational wealth exists in big law. My only familiarity with it was the decade my husband spent at a big NY firm. It seemed like a ton of people with middle class backgrounds working their tails off to pay down loans. The few rich kids (and one crypto currency recent millionaire) jumped ship very quickly. The partners were rich by my standards but not blue blood types, and they were definitely NOT encouraging their kids to work in big law. To put it another way, why would someone who didn’t need to work go into that industry? It’s such hard grueling stuff.

      1. Maybe if you grew up seeing people work 24/7, you figure that’s just what people do? And at least it’s the devil you know. I’m not sure I’d have survived med school, but I felt like (naive totally, small town court work is not all law jobs) I knew a bit about law. I see it with my co-workers. Or it’s like your dad is a fireman, so you do that (or be a police officer or join the Army)?

      2. Probably not so much “vacation home in Europe” wealth as “parents paid full tuition at Macalaster or Davidson” wealth. The idea is to go into a profession that enables you to also put your kids through private college and take nice vacations in your retirement.

    5. I get this. Are you on the East Coast? I had a better experience working in Biglaw in Chicago. It was much more “farm kids from Indiana” versus multi generation Ivy League lawyer families.

      1. +1 to this. OP’s background/situation sounds a lot like DH, and he also didn’t go to a T14 law school and is currently counsel in BigLaw. He did feel a lot more like OP when we lived in the DMV, and now we’re in Houston and there is more diversity of past socioeconomics among law firm colleagues.

    6. I get what you mean. I agree also with the comments about how the culture of Biglaw keeps those who are outsiders on the down low. I remember I felt uncomfortable sharing any personal information about how I spent my time (which in NYC means how you spend your money) because I was paying down (quickly) massively large student loans (that were greater than my parents house cost). Since I’ve left Biglaw, I feel so much more comfortable being who I am.

    7. I feel you. I come from a similar background – and just to dispel the idea of the noble poor vs the privately dysfunctional wealthy, there is PLENTY of dysfunction in poor families – and what I found over time is that I have assimilated enough to “pass.” My background still comes out in anxiety about money, especially around retirement savings. The WASPy managers I’ve worked with have said things like “that candidate led with money. That’s so distasteful” And my reaction was, “why do you think we’re all working here?”, which was not received. I still remember my first boss, who was only a couple of years ahead of me, saying the resort he and his wife had gone to over the weekend was “OK if you want to blow a couple grand” when I was literally bringing PB&Js to work to make the rent.

      Mostly I blend in, but the other day I said “surp” for “syrup” and my colleagues fell out laughing. You can take the girl out of the country but apparently you can’t completely take the country out of the girl.

      My knowledge of large animal veterinary issues and crop rotation has been less than helpful in my finance firm employment, though!

      1. At my BigLaw firm, people make plenty of $. But a lot of people send their kids to $$$ private school but still have parents / grandparents paying for it. My salary is to pay for retirement and to pay off loans and anything else — it’s not that I’m poor, but I don’t have those grandparents (so my kids aren’t at those schools — but for BigLaw, which surely won’t guarantee me 13 years’ employment per kid, I couldn’t pay on a regular legal job salary or governmetn lawyer pay scale).

  9. Seeking good record stores in the Bay Area so I can get a gift card for someone who lives there, any ideas appreciated!

  10. Today’s my last day in the office for 2021! Woohoo! I’m trying to clean up files and make sure my inbox is taken care of. What else do you do to close out the year and prepare for a fresh start in January? I have been thinking about goals and such, but I’m honestly not in a great headspace for that at the moment, so I’m kicking that can down the road.

    1. All I’m doing today is wrapping up what I can and turning on my autoresponder. The rest is January’s problem. I did buy a new planner for 2022.

    2. Just clean off your desk and get genuine loose ends tied up, then leave early. As long as you don’t leave anything horrible to come back to, or something confusing that you really should have made notes about, you’re golden. Go enjoy yourself.

    3. Make a to-do list of all the things you need to tackle on your first day/week back, so you can erase them from your mind during your holiday!

    4. Tedious but I make a list of projects that went “on pause” for after the holidays and a super brief description. Otherwise, come the 2nd week of January, it’s like “wait what where did this term sheet even COME from what is this deal again?”

    5. Y’all are ahead of me for even thinking about this. I do nothing! To me it’s just the start of Q2 which doesn’t really affect me much.

    6. Wash and dry any coffee mug or water bottle at your desk, dust the office, make sure to bring home any gym clothes.

    7. I just emailed myself a list of deliverables that I’m working on and where I am with each – “A123: at a roadblock; waiting for John’s team to respond with a list of blah blah” and so on… and then I’ll spend the today and Monday, cleaning up my inbox and whatnot. Most of my colleagues are already on PTO so I don’t think I’m getting much actual work done today or Monday.

  11. Looking for a light, fun read for a long flight that I can download on my phone. (Think Shopaholic or Crazy Rich Asians genres). I don’t usually watch movies when I fly, but if there’s anything light and fun, I’ll take those recommendations too. TIA!

    (I have a bunch of serious books I want to read, but since March 2020 I haven’t been able to do much serious reading, although I have been a serious reader my whole life)

      1. Agreed! I’m partway through the audiobook of The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo and really enjoying it

    2. Anything by Jenny Colgan – delightful British chick lit where the heroines typically run away from their big city lives, move to a small quaint town, and fall in love with the local farmer/fisherman/carpenter.

      2. Oh yes, Jenny Colgan! Got me through the grim early days of the pandemic.

        Sophie Kinsella, who wrote the Shopaholic books, wrote a lot of other light romances, too. I think they are pretty good – they are fluffy, but there’s usually a slightly more serious issue to resolve, and the heroine usually gets herself out of the problem. Like, she thinks she needs the guy to help her, but she can do it on her own.

        1. I like Sophie Kinsella’s standalone books way more than the Shopaholic series. Becky is too stupid to live.

          1. Yeah, I like that genre but Shopaholic is the worst! I like Marian Keyes for a similar feel yet with likable characters.

    3. Dial A for Aunties by Jesse Q. Sutanto if you’d like a slightly different take on the Crazy Rich Asians genre! It’s a delightful and fun read.

      1. A writing podcast I love talks about this one a lot, so I’m reading it now. The premise is so unbelievable that I’m having trouble with it! I love the writing style, and it’s really fun. I think to fully enjoy it, you need to be able to suspend disbelief completely and go everywhere the author wants to take you.

        1. Oh, absolutely. It requires suspension of disbelief and a willingness to along for the ride.

          1. And to be clear, I’m still reading it and am very curious what happens! So clearly the author is onto something, and I’d also recommend if you’re in a mood to read with your brain off.

    4. I’ve been reading Nancy Mitford’s novels, staring with The Pursuit of Love, and am finding them charming and funny and a nice, light read. They are available on Kindle.

    5. I get bogged down by heavy reading so like to throw something fun in to break it up. In general I think anything from Jennifer Weiner is great, because she’s breezy but with some substance. Jasmine Gillory is also similar to what you mentioned—try The Proposal. One-in-Million Boy starts out a little sad but is really lovely. Have fun on your flight!

    6. The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo
      Daisy Jones and the Six
      The Wife Between Us
      Girls Like Us
      Mademoiselle Chanel

      1. I liked Daisy Jones, but it was incredible as an audio book. Instead of a single narrator, they hired an entire cast. Including Judy Greer as a primary supporting character, a role that could have been written for her.

    7. Abbi Waxman’s books, or some Christina Lauren books (loved Josh and Hazel, liked The Unhoneymooners, didn’t like the one that seemed based on the Magnolia house reno people). Unlike another poster, I hate Jenny Colgan’s books with a passion – just to provide another perspective (the one where the protagonist walks around with a puffin on her shoulder, and the guy named Huckleberry? I’m still mad I read (most of) that).

      The Richard Osman Thursday Murder Club books are entertaining, and Robin Sloan’s Sourdough is great.

      Sonali Dev’s Jane Austen-inspired books are fun, too.

      1. Or the Beth Kendrick books – at least the first few Black Dog Bay books are cute; the last book or two in the series might peter out).

    9. (all romance)
      Anything Tessa Dare (especially When a Scot Ties a Knot)
      Hating Game
      The Royal We
      The Love Hypothesis
      Managed, by Callihan

    10. Anything by Elin Hildebrand could fit this!

      Seconding Jasmine Guillory; The Hating Game by Sally Thorne (movie just came out! I loved the book).

  12. Hi all! I am looking for a camping stove and see a quite a range listed in the usual places. My family (me, DH, and two young kids) go car camping 3 to 4 times when the weather is nice. We have always made a fire in the ring provided and put a pan or pot on top to cook and its a total pain: smoke in the eyes, burnt food, maintaining the fire, charred pots. It only occurred to me recently, that there is a better way! Camp stove!

    1. If you just want to boil water for coffee or instant meals/oatmeal/freezedried, highly recommend a jet boil. It’s more of a backpacking set up, and you can get them SUPER minimalist. It’s fine for a couple nights with me, my husband and the four year old, but it doesn’t give you a WHOLE lot of options for car camping. My BIL has a two-burner Coleman classic which is budget friendly and allows you to do more proper camping.

    3. You want a two burner Coleman stove. Get a cast iron griddle that fits for amazing camp breakfasts! Definitely the best for car camping with kids. Could also consider a jetboil or equivalent just for making coffee ASAP. Do not just get a jetboil or similar for cooking though until you are backpacking.

      1. + the Coleman two burner is a reliable workhorse.
        If you just want a simple single burner, i’d get a butane stove, and butane is easier to find where I am. I don’t have a brand or anything… we just picked one up at our local Asian market.

        1. Our Coleman is a hand me down from my in laws and is definitely older than me – still works! I bet the design hasn’t changed much since then.

          1. I am pretty sure our Coleman stove is identical to the one my parents had. It is great for car camping where we are actually cooking. When we don’t want to cook full meals, we bring a backpacking stove to boil water for coffee and oatmeal and then get dinner at the lodge.

    4. For car camping I would get a 2 burner propane stove. You don’t need something fancy or expensive or lightweight. We have a 70s era “Winchester” model from a garage sale that works great.

      And LOL re: the smoke – my husband also loves to cook on the fire and insisted on boiling water on a campfire to purify it. The pot lid somehow trapped the smoke in the water, and all of our water tasted deeply smokey. (I thought that was craft cocktail nonsense!). Then he topped off all of the various water containers with it so even water we had laboriously filtered through the purifier got contaminated with smoked water.

    5. I rented the Coleman one burner from REI/Dick’s for our camping trip and was super satisfied. They mail it to you, you pay rent per day and can return (drop off package at mail) in the enclosed envelope – so hassle free and easy.

    6. The coleman 2 burner camp stove is the answer for sure. BUT we also take a Blackstone flat top griddle that is amazing. Can do so much on it.

  13. I need to make a vegetable side dish for Christmas that:

    Is vegan
    Feeds 11
    Has no mushrooms.

    Suggestions? Thank you!

    2. Do you have access to the oven, or are you taking it somewhere? If the former, we typically do roasted asparagus. Drizzle on olive oil, top with salt and pepper, and roast at 400 for 15ish minutes depending on how done you like it.

    5. Tater tot casserole with vegan cheese?
      Bruschetta?
      Good pitas, roasted peppers, and hummus / homemade pesto

    6. Check out minimalistbaker.com. Lots of great recipes there. Her front page has a vegan cauliflower au gratin that looks fantastic. I’ve made a version of her brussel spouts with apples and dates that always goes over well, and there’s a vegan french onion soup that I’ve been meaning to try next.

      I also feel like a sweet potato dish would be a perfect Christmas side dish. Maybe search and see if anything looks good?

      1. I’ve done roasted sweet potatoes (peeled, and cubed relatively small) tossed with with coconut oil, a sprinkle of cinnamon and salt for a holiday side. You can also toss them with vanilla and honey (or maple syrup) when they’re hot out of the oven if you are going for more of a sweet side. If you want to mash or puree them I’ve done that too with a bit more melted coconut oil and applesauce. You could swap thyme in if you’d like them more savory and less sweet.

    7. Roasted root veggies with olive oil and herbs or spices. A fancy salad. Or are you looking for a more substantial side dish that would substitute as a main dish for the vegans?

      1. “Roasted root veggies with olive oil and herbs or spices.”
        This is the way. I do carrots, parsnips, sweet potatoes and purple potatoes. You can cook all of it together as long as you don’t cut all the pieces the same size – the parsnips and carrots need to be small chunks (like dice-size cubes) and then the sweet potatoes and purple potatoes can be larger (1-inch cubes). I like to make mine heavy on the spice – I have used different blends from Penzeys, or a go-to is za’atar. Also flake sea salt.
        My process is:
        Cut up the veggies, put in large bowl
        Microwave the bowl for 3 minutes (this starts the cooking process, so you don’t end up with veggies that are burnt outside and raw inside)
        Add to the bowl a generous amount of olive oil, the spices, and salt
        Toss to coat, with hands or large spoon
        Dump out onto oiled cookie sheet (with a rim), spread out on the cookie sheet
        Roast at 425 for 15-20 minutes, or until veggies are soft-ish inside but crispy outside. I usually give the veggies a stir/toss halfway through the cooking time.
        One caveat – I would not include beets in this as IMO, the beets bleed all over everything else and it’s not as pretty of a presentation when you go to serve. I love roasted beets but I feel they work best when served on their own.

        If you want to keep it even simpler, go to the store and buy a couple of bags of those tiny potatoes, the ones that are smaller than a ping-pong ball, cut them in half, and repeat the process above, making sure the potatoes are cut-side-down on the cookie sheet, and don’t toss them during cooking. I made potatoes this way for Thanksgiving and there was not one left over at the end of the meal.

        1. +1 to this whole post. I really like to use baharat seasoning on roasted veggies like this.

    8. Roasted brussel sprouts, sweet potatoes, and cranberries/craisins
      Roasted sweet potatoes with Granny Smith apples and pecans or walnuts (it’s better if you can caramelize the apples separately and toss them in at the end, maybe in coconut oil?)
      Balsamic glazed carrots

    10. Can you do something like green beans almondine (with olive oil instead of butter), or roasted brussels sprouts with lemon zest? A fancy salad would also be nice – beets/citrus fruits/apples/radicchio/endive are all really good at the moment.
      This is also delicious and could easily be doubled (skip the cheese obviously), very hearty and rewarms well – I make it a few times a month during the winter:
      https://smittenkitchen.com/2013/07/one-pan-farro-with-tomatoes/

    12. You could do something easy: roasted brussel sprouts, glazed carrots, or sauteed green beans with pearl onions.

      Or something slightly more involved: Tara Parker-Pope’s Panzanella of Plenty on the NYTimes Cooking website or Love and Lemons Twice Baked Sweet Potatoes?

    14. I made the NY Times Coconut Braised Collard Greens for Thanksgiving and it was SO good. Any greens would work (we did kale).

    15. French green beans blanched quickly, sauteed to still-crispy with salt, pepper, garlic and if you like, sliced almonds on top. Classic, easy to do at the last minute (chop the ends off the green beans in advance, prep garlic in advance), comes together in 10 mins. Always a hit.

    16. Winter crunch salad from Bon Appetit
      I like this because (1) it does not require you to cook other than toasting some sesame seeds and (2) it lightens up a typically heavy meal and stands out as an uncooked item.

  14. We had our dryer vent serviced for the first time ever this year. I never knew it was a thing. For those in the know, do you use a cleaning tool at home in between the annual servicing? Is there a tool you would recommend?

    1. I’m curious about this too, except that I’m a renter. Is this my responsibility? Our landlord is pretty hands off and we’re terrified to ask for anything because we live somewhere with a massive housing shortage and if we could find another place at all, it would be at least $1000-$1500 more per month.

      1. Your landlord can’t evict you for asking for something he should be doing. Would it be better if your house burned down because of a dryer fire?

        1. Obviously not, which is why I’m asking if this is something they should be doing or if I should (I have no idea if they’re even a person or some sort of trust- we’ve only dealt with the property manager). They can’t evict us, but we’re on a month to month lease, so they could ask us to leave or raise the rent massively at any time. It would be a great time for them to sell, so we wouldn’t be surprised if they do that and asking for more maintenance is exactly the kind of thing that could tip the balance.

      2. I would ask him if he’d like you to handle or if he would prefer to. if you have that sweet of deal, it’s worth it to eat that cost, but you don’t want to step on his toes.

    2. I have a brush thing from Home Depot – it honestly looks like a giant bottle brush and came as part of a 2-piece dryer vent / lint trap cleaning kit. I think it was only like $25 or so.

    3. I got a kit off Amazon that’s a brush and a bunch of flexible nylon rods that connect. You can attach it to a drill for easier cleaning, but it’s not necessary. Once you read the instructions, it’s pretty easy. Just make sure all the connections are really well attached–it’s worth using tape if necessary.

      The kit was cheaper than the cost of one service call, so it’s well worth it to learn to DIY.

    4. We have a cleaning kit that DH bought for our prior house. We are pretty sure that the vent hadn’t been cleaned in the life of the house. The kit came with the brush, a claw attachment and nearly 40 feet of flexible poles that attach to a drill to spin the attachments to clean the vent tube.

  15. Quick advice – I have a feeling I’m going to be asked for my opinion on this and I’m a lawyer but not this kind of lawyer…

    Employee of private club had an affair with a member. Employee is being terminated. Member is facing no disciplinary action. Is this:
    A) How the world works
    B) A recipe for a sexual harassment / hostile work environment / wrongful termination suit
    C) Problematic but a situation with little recourse if there’s an explicit rule prohibiting employees from relationships w members but not the reverse prohibiting members from relationships w employees?

    Employee is a young woman from another country; Member is a wealthy white man 25 years her senior. Makes me sad this is still so common.

      1. YES that is the only appropriate response.

        But… Yes, yes (because of inherent power differential), yes but that’s ridiculous and the rules should be updated asap.

    2. not this kind of lawyer either but my layman’s view is – cr-ppy but a combo of A and C.

    3. Gross. I’m not this kind of lawyer either and obviously it’ll depend on state law and the contracts but I suspect C. Someone should shake him down for a severance check for her.

      1. +1

        With like plus 1,000 to A. This is absolutely how the world works and I hate it here.

    5. In my state, there could potentially be a claim if the member was harassing her, she reported the harassment to the employer, and the employer did nothing to protect her from future harassment.

      If she was just voluntarily banging a married dude (an assumption based on the word “affair”), I don’t see how her termination is problematic.

    6. The answers are A-C (potentially B, or the situation creates a risk of staff on the menu that makes B possible another time) and I’m not that kind of lawyer. It is pretty common that clubs (and churches!) have rules that prohibit these relationships.

      1. In a church, it’s definitely a burden on the clergy. In a club, it may be easier to replace staff than members, so it’s definitely on the staff but I’ve seen members be expelled when they did things like get grabby with staff or otherwise violated rules.

        1. What do you mean by “a burden on the clergy”? As in it is properly the clergy’s burden to bear, or as in it unfairly burdens the clergy the way it does club staff? Depending on what denomination and the member’s role in the church, the power dynamic could favor either the clergyperson or the member. In most cases the clergyperson is in a more powerful position than the member, but I could imagine a situation in some protestant denominations where the lay leadership has some influence that a member of the church council or the staff-parish relations committee could have power over the clergyperson.

    7. Need more information.
      What does her employment contract say?
      What does his membership contract say?
      Would a male employee who is banging a female member be terminated?
      Was there an element of harassment or coercion in the relationship? Did she report his overtures to her supervisor? What did that person do?
      Is the guy married?
      Did the affair take place outside of work hours and off premises, or were they going at it when she was on the clock?

    8. There’s not enough information to really understand the hypothetical. I can very much imagine a set of facts in which an employee-side employment lawyer could make a good argument of B.

  16. For anyone looking for cozy, super-soft leggings to get through the rest of winter, I recently got the Old Navy High-Waisted Velour Leggings in black and maroon (they had some fancy names for the colors), and I am impressed. They are very, very soft inside and out, without being overly heavy/warm. I’m going to order additional pairs. Winter is my least-favorite season and especially after Christmas, I feel like what keeps me going until spring is having warm, comfy clothing so at least I’m not freezing or uncomfortable while I wait for spring.

    1. Tell me more:

      Are they like fleece on the inside at all?
      How is the stretch?
      Did you order your regular size?

      Some leggings have zero stretch, especially the cozier varieties. I don’t want anything I have to wrestle on.

      1. Are they like fleece on the inside at all? No, which I was worried about at first, but the smooth fabric interior is still very soft.
        How is the stretch? Excellent. I don’t “do” leggings that don’t stretch. These are plenty stretchy without getting baggy after a few hours of wear.
        Did you order your regular size? Yes, I am consistently an XL at Old Navy, and that size worked fine in this case too.

  17. Does anyone have good strategies for dating someone with a non-traditional, intense work schedule? I’m dating a chef. It’s all great, but we are constantly meeting at midnight because he works late. I’m tired! If you’ve been in that situation, do you have any advice to share? Right now, all I can think is that I just have to deal.

    1. Don’t be the only one compromising on the time you meet. It sounds like that’s happening. Insist on meeting at other times that work better for you.

      1. I’m sorry, but this just does not apply to a chef. If you are someone who demands this version of compromise, you are not a suitable match for a chef. (I’m not saying the industry wouldn’t benefit from change, just that it’s not going to happen in any foreseeable timeframe, might even get worse, and it is what it is.)

    2. and this is why my husband left the restaurant business…it is very tough on families

      1. +1 my husband is likewise a “retired” restaurant professional. Another option is to switch into a sector of food service with more traditional hours (medical, higher education, business dining on fancy corporate campuses).

    3. I haven’t dated a chef but I have known a lot. You just have to deal or this will just not work out, and maybe that is for the best. Chefs find it very difficult to make relationships outside the industry or with people who also have very flexible or non-traditional schedules work. That said, I know several chefs married to lawyers and their reality is that they just don’t see each other that much and deal (maybe prefer that) or eventually split up. This is one of several reasons chefs have very high divorce rates. They can be a ton of fun, though.

    4. I don’t think I could put up with this without getting very resentful. Is there an alternative that doesn’t lead to one or both of you being sleep deprived?

    5. My boyfriend was a chef when we started dating. Some strategies that worked for us— Meeting earlier on the days he had off, he would come to my place and go to bed, then we’d hang out in the morning before I went to work, I’d go to his restaurant sometimes for a later dinner or drinks, and he’d come see me for a few minutes.

      The schedule is rough, I’m not going to lie. I see the poster below who said to insist on times that work better for you— That is true for the days he’s off. But for the days he’s working, there’s really not always much you can do because it’s not like you can insist that you hang out on Friday at 7 p.m. when he’s in the middle of his work day (it would be like him saying that he wanted to hang out with me at 2 p.m. on a Wednesday).

      Good luck! My boyfriend has left the industry, but so many of the skills he learned there have made him a great partner.

      1. +1

        Good suggestions here.

        But OP, you have to be realistic. Certain careers have these sort of issues, and if his goal is to continue in this profession long term, it may be better for you to make a decision now if this is the right guy for you. I have had similar situations with dating medical/surgical residents. There is a reason why many relationships/marriages break up during residency. They can’t mold their schedule to yours, no matter how much you’d like them to. And the little free time they have can still change if they need to study or are too exhausted to get together or run late at the hospital. But at least there is a clear defined end point for the worst of the residency schedule. Not necessarily so for a chef.

      2. Thanks, this is helpful. For now, it’s worth accommodating the schedule, but it is rough. Sometimes people are just worth it.

        1. Your last sentence is key. If you’re not both crazy about each other, then it’s not worth it. Developing a bit of a routine and getting used to grabbing small slices of time are helpful, too.

          Not related to logistics, but just a tip. My boyfriend has a kitchen routine DOWN, so when he cooks, I don’t even bother trying to help or clean up because he’s so good at cleaning as he goes. If you haven’t experienced this, and your boyfriend is similar to mine in this regard, don’t feel guilty and just enjoy it!

        2. can you get creative with your date times? What about meeting for lunch or brunch? Mid morning coffee break for you = breakfast time for him?

    6. My boyfriend is a stand up comedian so I deal with this all the time. What’s helped is making room for together time in the mornings rather than staying up late–he’ll come over after work and let himself in and we’ll sleep in the same bed, then wake up early to hang out before I go to work. He usually stops by once I’m home from work to hang out before his “work day” starts around 7 or 8pm and on weekends he’ll join me and my friends after work if we’re out. He does a great job of really prioritizing time for me on his nights off and I see how hard he tries to make his schedule as non-disruptive for me as possible. It’s not easy but his effort is enough for me to be OK with being the one who often has to make the time sacrifices. I’m a night owl as well which makes things a little easier but it’s definitely a lot of communication and compromise.

    7. I dated a poker dealer for a hot minute. Like others here, he would let himself in when his shift was over and then we’d have breakfast together. He could do early happy hours too, but that rarely works for me. We would do fun things together during the day on the weekends. He did his best to get Saturday nights off when I had an event I really wanted to go to. I would pay for any Saturday night stuff because he’s already “paying” a lot for our date by losing the tips from his biggest shift of the week.

    8. Probably too late in the day, but in case you see this – my husband has a similar schedule (or at least what I’m guessing is a similar schedule – he’s basically unavailable Thursday night through Sunday early evening) and honestly I hate to say it but I echo other commenters (and your original post) that unfortunately the answer is kind of that you just deal. I did allow myself one pity party maybe three to six months in where I wallowed in the fact that I’d always have to go to Friday night concerts or Saturday wedding alone, and then I just sort of said “this is the deal – if you want to stay in this relationship, there’s no point in dwelling on this because there’s nothing you can do about it.” So unfortunately no real advice, but commiseration! I would say that it’s probably worth talking to him about what his long term career goals look like and whether or not he’ll ever have any sway over his schedule – for my husband, he still mostly works the above schedule, but now he’s senior enough in his role that he can every once in a while take days off other than when the business is closed to go to weddings, take vacation, etc. and I really appreciate that when it happens.

      Also, do you have any flexibility in your work schedule/location? One silver lining from COVID is that I can finally work from home (after being in a job that could have been remote for several years) and so now we get to at least hang out in the mornings/have lunch together when he’s off Mondays and Tuesdays.

  18. hi! I am working fully remotely and can’t pop in to the office. What is the best way to give my assistant a gift? In before Covid times I would give cash in a nice card and I would like to give money again this year—trying to figure out the best way to do so while not being present. Asking for her home address and mailing a check?

    1. you could send a cash-equivalent gift card by email – A-zon or Target make this very easy!

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