Thursday’s TPS Report: Silk Check Print Blouse

182 Comments

1. Reading through yesterday afternoon’s thread about waiting for BF to propose reminded me of a theory I’ve had for awhile: What our society needs is for women to be able to start proposing to men. The more I think about it, the whole traditional requirement that the man is the one to propose is so outdated. And I wonder if one of the effects of that ritual is that young women hope to be “chosen” by men, and so we spend inordinate amounts of time in our youth trying to look beautiful and be appealing at all times, so that we can catch a man. I hope that we change this custom and it becomes more routine for women to start proposing to men, too. It should be equal.

   1. I proposed to my partner. I even got him an engagement ring! We picked it out together. I think a lot of it has to do with fear, as marriage is a big step and it’s very easy for women to just go the route of “Well, I’ll wait for my SO to ask! That’s more traditional anyway.” So it puts the onus on the other person to take initiative, when, in my opinion, it is something that should be talked about a lot before a decision is made. Basically, by the time a relationship gets to the point of marriage, it shouldn’t be a risk to ask your partner to marry you.

      But, I have often been told that I never did anything normal.

      1. I agree with this – that the waiting for the man to propose is often born out of fear that if the woman asks, the man will say no. I also believe it is based on long-standing gender stereotypes, but duh there.

         I also agree that the will you marry me question should be mutual – it shouldn’t be one person asking the other, it should be both parties agreeing that is what they want. But I also am fairly nontraditional in that way.

         1. I was under the impression that in 2015 proposals are not surprises that come out of the blue but are an orchestrated event that is the culmination of many mutual conversations between partners. So yes, the ring, the knee, the surprise, that is all antiquated, but now that happens after a lot of co-equal dialogue.

            1. If it’s anticipated, then what’s the point of proposing? I’ve always felt it should just be a discussion and an agreement. Why do you need a proposal? But I’m also anti-engagement ring. I don’t see the point of them, other than to brand a woman prior to marriage.

               Also, I accidentally hit report, instead of reply. Sorry!

            2. So you have a story to tell and can Instagram/Facebook it, I guess. Nothing exciting about “Well, we’ve have several discussions about our feelings and how we see the rest of lives playing out, so we going to do this thing.”

            3. It’s a big gesture of romance. If that’s not something you’re into, you do you, but there’s something to be said for both going through a lot of trouble to make your partner feel super special, and being the partner on the receiving end of that.

            4. So I collect old etiquette books, and even back in the 1940s, Amy Vanderbilt stated that the surprise marriage proposal of yore was outdated. She actually even suggested that the couple should buy the ring together (although she did think the man should pay for it). And she dismissed the whole asking-for-permission thing as not appropriate given that adult women don’t need a parent’s permission for marriage, but she did think that the man and the woman’s father should have a conversation about his prospects so that her family would be comfortable with respect to her future security before the engagement was formalized.

            5. Why do you wrap Christmas presents and put them under the tree when you know December 25th comes the same day every year? Because it’s fun.

            6. Completely agree with baconpancakes and wildkitten. My now-DH and I had several conversations about getting married and then THE conversation where we decided to get married. We booked a venue the following week. A few months later he gave me a gorgeous ring and said amazing things about me while the two of us were standing alone on top of a mountain. Was it necessary? No. Did I absolutely love it? Yes. Maybe not everyone’s cup of tea, but I wouldn’t change a thing about how we went about it.

         2. As to the fear that the man will say no: there’s a feeling that since men know it’s traditionally their prerogative to propose, the received wisdom seems to be “if he wanted to get engaged, he’d ask. Don’t embarrass yourself.” I hate it, but I hear it often.

            One opinion I read once about the romantic male-initiated proposal ritual said that women feel they have two options, as prototypes for their relationships to men: annoying nag/ball and chain, or else enchanting princess for whom he will do knightly feats to win her love. The author argued that when these are your two alternatives, even if they’re both pretty inaccurate, the second will always hold more appeal. I get that.

            I can say, here, that I have a really hard time getting squealy with my friends when they tell me about receiving elaborate staged proposals. I know that everyone should do what she wants, it just makes me uncomfortable and I have trouble relating. Likewise, I’m sure they cringed when I told them (only when pressed) how I got “engaged:” through a somewhat drawn-out, practical conversation that lasted about a week.

            1. Elaborately staged proposals can be extremely manipulative if they aren’t preceded by a lot of mutual discussion.

            2. Yes, in regards to the commenter from yesterday – which is more important to you – that you and your SO are engaged and in serious discussion of when you will be married by your timeline, or whether you have received an elaborate proposal and ring by the end of that timeline? I think you need to have a discussion with your SO as to which is more important to you, and let him know that if it’s the part about being able to say “we’re engaged” or even just saying to each other “we plan to get married sometime in the next 1-3 years” then let him know that, in case what is holding him back is planning some elaborate proposal or shopping for an expensive ring. My husband knew loud and clear that I had no desire for a big splashy, public proposal and that a big ring was not a priority for me (and that I had no desire for us to start our marriage with a big debt due to a ring).
               On the other hand, if the commitment part is what’s holding the SO back, that needs to be a much bigger conversation.

            3. I am also not a fan of elaborate proposals. I think the decision to marry should be a conversation or several conversations between the couple. Once the decision is reached, a ring and romantic gesture are superfluous. The idea that a gendered ritual must be performed in which it’s the man’s role to propose and the woman’s to be proposed to also just feels kind of icky to me.

            4. I’m the poster from yesterday and I really appreciate everyone’s support. In response to Meg Murry’s comment (and I think someone yesterday said something along these lines too – I really don’t think it’s the ring or an elaborate proposal that’s the problem. I don’t want either. I hate the idea of an elaborate proposal. I hate the idea of him “proposing” period. I would love to just have a conversation, say “yup here we go!” and pop on my grandmother’s ring (which I have). I don’t really want a traditional wedding either, fwiw. I want to get married and I want the people who are there to have something to eat. That’s really about it.

               But he’s much more of a romantic than I am. His desire to do the whole proposal thing is greater than my desire to not have that happen at all. We’re going to have to negotiate on wedding size, but for the most part his desire for a big poofy wedding is greater than my apathy toward weddings.

         3. For heaven’s sake. It’s not “gender stereotypes,” but the reality that a woman has a very limited window of years in which to have children. The entire point is for men to NOT spend their youth wasting a woman’s youth, only to go and find some cute young thing with whom they want to spend the rest of their lives.

            I cannot fathom how anyone with a passing knowledge of human reproduction would suggest that what we really need is another way for the onus to be on women. “Propose or stop wasting my time” is a completely rational response to staring down at a vanishing fertility window. How about men actually get their heads out of their rear ends, treat the women around them with some respect, and stop wasting our time?

            Oh, no, let’s have “feminism” make something else our problem! Brilliant. Freaking BRILIANT.

            (Sorry, was that a rant? My boyfriend finally told me, as we are on the verge of breaking up because he won’t propose, that commitment scares him. Really wish I had moved on two or three years ago, back when I had five good child-bearing years left.)

            1. Whoa. I think that was kind of a rant, though I’ll say your last paragraph certainly makes me appreciate your anger. But I will say that feminism (not “feminism” — it’s a real movement, not a media caricature) in general wants to give women some sense of autonomy over the own lives. And given the history of marriage (men simply claiming women, women used as pawns in family or political battles, marriage-by-kidnap, which we’re still seeing around the world), that is not a bad thing. Even if it’s not your thing.

      2. The decision to get married is not the same as a proposal ritual. I had the “traditional” proposal. We’d had all of the discussions, we were both ready, we’d shopped for rings, both of us wanted the ritual. While it seemed like he was taking forever at the time, he later revealed the thought process. I’d said that I wanted to be working at the new job for a year before getting engaged. He respected that, hence the lag (even though he was ready). Plus, he liked the surprise element and I like jewelry. I’ve never felt that our preference for a traditional ritual was at odds with our respectful, equal partnership and our carefully considered decision.

         1. Yes, exactly. The problem with this premise that women should propose still doesn’t fix a situation wherein one party is ready and the other is not. Because if you just propose to a man who is not ready to be engaged (and you know this based on your discussions), then you can’t be surprised if he says no.

         2. I agree with this. I had a “traditional” proposal in the sense the he surprised me with a ring at a moment that I was not specifically expecting it, but we had already had many conversations about marriage, compatibility, life goals, etc. We had already decided that we wanted to get married and agreed that, since that was our goal, formal engagement sooner rather than later was what we both wanted.

      3. I also proposed to my husband. Made dinner reservations and one of our favorite restaurants, bought myself a new (awesome) dress, did everything but send him a letter saying I was going to propose (he was not really surprised, in other words), and even had a little speech in my head. Which I promptly forgot so the proposal ended up being more or less “I-love-you-will-you-marry-me” said really really fast. This followed months of conversations about the future, including a moment when we was listing names for our hypothetical children in front of his (now) MIL. Possibly outing myself: this all following conversations 2-3 years prior when he ranted that women want equality but won’t hold the door or always expect the men to be the ones asking for dates/to dance, and that if he ever got married, it would be to a woman who was willing to take a few of those risks in the relationship too. :)

   2. Yay! I LOVE TPS Thursday, and I especialy love Brook’s Brother’s! I am goieng to start wearling alot more Brook’s Brother’s b/c of this. YAY! Great Pick!

      I think the OP make’s some good point’s but ultimeately I disagree. We have to remember that we can NOT have it both way’s. Yes I agree we should “lean in” the way Sheryl Sandburg says we should, but we should EXPLOIT our femminity as much as we can for as long as we can. We are ONLEY young for mabye 40 year’s or so, and THAT is the time we have to do whatever we can in this society to get ahead. If that mean’s wearing skirt’s that mabye a littel to short to get a guy’s attention, what is the harm in that? I wear 4″ pump’s not b/c they are comforteabel (they are NOT), but b/c men love my leg’s and I get ahead in court by attracting attention. Is this fair to older women or men that are NOT abel to do this? Probabley not, but they have other atribute’s, like getting their JD’s from Harvard or Colombia law school, or goeing to prep school’s that Dad did NOT want me to go to b/c we had OK public school’s on LI. If I went to prep school’s who know’s? Mabye I could have gone to Harvard and NOT have to wear 4″ pump’s and pencil skirt’s that men ooogle over. But I did NOT, so I have to do whatever I can to be sucessful. And that goes over to the personal side. I have to find a guy who will be abel to support me and our children. That has NOT been easy with all of the looser’s out there. FOOEY!

      I do NOT think the quality guy’s out there are interested in me being to pushey. Instead, we have to learn NOT to give ourself to men. We have to hold back so that they are so hungry for more that they will MARRY us. That is how to retain a guy–Grandma Leyeh is right. We should NOT have sex with men just b/c they buy us dinner. I made that mistake early in my career, but I have learned that it is NOT worth it to have to put up with a doosh just b/c he has a winkie. He must be willing to take us as we are. They must understand that THEY have limitations (above and below the belt) and they should know that they will NEED to earn our respect and our bodies b/c we will NOT have sex with them until they EARN it. Does that mean we are not getting married as quick as we want? Possibley, but once we do get the RIGHT guy, we will keep them! YAY!!!

      I might be old fasheioned, but I hope the HIVE agrees with me!

   3. ” And I wonder if one of the effects of that ritual is that young women hope to be “chosen” by men, and so we spend inordinate amounts of time in our youth trying to look beautiful and be appealing at all times, so that we can catch a man”

      This idea–that women are chosen by men— is a feature of society’s views on hetero relationships that has existed for a very, very long time, and manifests in a variety of permutations. It’s this view that causes the proposal ritual, not the other way around (in my view). It’s all antiquated as f***.

      1. I love this “It’s all antiquated as f***.” I don’t love that it’s true, but it made me laugh.

         1. I’m glad :)

   4. Agree. I really think that engagement in this day and age is a joint decision, not something flying in out of left field that resides solely with the man, by virtue of his p*nis.

      I also think this whole conversation ties in with a thread I saw on FB yesterday. One of my more conservative acquaintances posted this: http://elitedaily.com/dating/motivate-ask-dude-on-date/1010222/ and asked for people’s thoughts. There was a lot of pearl-clutching and OMG NO-ing and “I’m a traditionalist”-ing and “Men must need to feel in charge of everything or they’re being emasculated”-ing. I refuse to think my boyfriend’s ego and male identity are so fragile that the fact that I asked him out instead of waiting for him to do it (the weekend was coming up and I needed to figure my schedule out!) is going to cause some kind of crisis for him. Ditto if we ever get to the marriage stage. IDK, I can bow to his desire to pick the time to hand me a ring or whatever (and he’s way better at romantic gestures than I am anyway) but the decision to get engaged is a joint one, not something that should be 100% by a man due to: man.

      1. Have you ever heard or read what goes in at those Harvest Festival things and what they tell the men about their “duty to lead the household?” A colleague went to one once and told me the next work day that his favorite part was when the speaker suggested that they each give their wife $50 and tell her “spend it however you want, on you, don’t spend it on the household budget, and don’t tell me what you use it for” because then their wives would be grateful to them for a taste of independence and would feel more “led by the leader of the household.” Truly. This was in a major metropolitan area in 1996.

         1. Shaking my damn head.

   5. I think these days a proposal involves many conversations about marriage, which are initiated by anyone, not just the man (in hetero relationships). The whole spontaneous proposal is not done among my peer group. The ritual is that the man usually formally proposes, though.

   6. As someone who was on the receiving end of a romance-novel-esque, out-of-the-blue, Tiffany-box-and-all marriage proposal, and whose marriage ended in in divorce four years later, I would much, much, much rather have a non-surprising, happy mutual conversation about our joint future, preferably in a private place so I’d feel free and not on display. I don’t care about having a story to tell anyone, other than “we’re so excited to tell you that we’re getting married!”

   7. Meh, the change has mostly happened. As others have said, a proposal is mostly the culmination of a series of conversations and not really a surprise. Should it be okay for women to ask the actual question? Sure. But I don’t think it really matters. I do think that women are often ready for marriage more quickly than men are, in part because men are told that marriage ties them down. Also, men don’t have the same time pressure if they’re planning children (even if they intellectually know “hey, if I want children with this particular woman, we need to get going by X date” it’s just not the same for them). So you wind up with women waiting around for men. But not always. My husband was ready for marriage way before I was. By the time he proposed, however, it was something we’d talked about and knew we were both on the same page. As for women thinking they need to be “chosen” I just don’t think that’s true. Studies have shown that it’s actually women who control courting behaviors. Even if men are the ones to ask for a date, it’s usually because the woman has indicated non-verbally that she’s interested. Don’t sell women short! We’re not now and never have been sitting around passively. And I do, truly think that men are biologically just more interested in appearance and so women who are interested in dating men do put effort into appearance. But men put effort into the things that tend to attract women. It’s not a one-way street. (Also, it’s not just women. My gay male friends put WAAAY more effort into their appearance than I ever have. So you can’t say it’s a function of women being socialized to wait around for men. If you want to appeal to men, looks are going to be a thing, whether you yourself are a man or a woman.)

      1. My problem with the notion that men simply value appearance more, while women value other things in men, is that these traits take opposite trajectories with age. Women become less and less conventionally beautiful as the decades go on, and lose the ability to bear children, where men tend to accrue greater wealth and status, and remain fertile for longer. Marriage is about making a life-long commitment, and so I don’t really buy the argument that women are in control.

         1. I don’t understand. Because women’s beauty fades with age, you think men hold all the cards in marriage? Or you don’t think men do value appearance? I’d say that appearance is just the beginning. A gorgeous woman with a terrible personality and no intelligence is not going to be very successful in dating or getting married. And a man may have been first attracted to his wife in their 20s because he thought she was pretty, but in their 50s he will likely both still see in her the 20something he first fell in love with, and will find that shared life experiences make her more appealing than some random but beautiful 20 year old.

            1. What you’re describing is certainly how it’s supposed to work. I’m married, so obviously I have a personal stake believing it’s at least possible! I’m just saying that if we think about marriage as a calculated decision–which on some level I believe it really is, even for the most romantic people–men have greater leverage if you’re talking about the traits typically desired in each party. I think men’s traditional status as the ones to propose reflects that, and that’s why I don’t like it.

            2. “A gorgeous woman with a terrible personality and no intelligence is not going to be very successful in dating or getting married.”

               I wish this were true, but where I live, they tend to be extremely successful in getting married (to be fair, I don’t know if I’d say their personalities are “terrible”–they play up that ditzy cute thing that guys seem to like; they’re just also mean girls and let their inner-crazy really fly once they’ve locked the guy down). Their husbands seem pretty miserable but put up with it for the physical benefits of being with a really hot woman. She has their kids, guy can’t understand why the kids aren’t that bright or disciplined, and several years later when wife has “lost” her appearance, he divorces her for the exact same woman, just 20 years younger.

   8. My fellow and I have talked about it. He knows I’m into it, but he’s not quite there yet. I told him, “If you ask me, I’m going to say yes.” I think that’s a decent middle ground. He doesn’t have to be afraid of rejection and I don’t have to be afraid that he doesn’t know what I want.

   9. I sort of agree, although I think we need to do away with “proposals” period. Whoever is ready to talk about marriage first should bring it up and then the decision to get married should be made together. If you don’t feel able to communicate about wanting to get married, then that’s a great signal that you’re not ready yet.

      In my case, I was the first one to bring up getting married. We spent a few months talking about it, figured out timing, and then we bought each other engagement jewelry to mark the occasion. Our actual selections were a surprise, but we did talk generally about what the other person would like.

      And I don’t think that there is anything inherently less romantic in the “mutual decision” model (vs. the “proposal” model). I think that our culture’s current definition of “romantic” is in flux as we recognize that, although we’ve been socialized to see grand, surprise proposals and expensive rings financed by the man as romantic, the cultural baggage that those gestures carry is decidedly problematic and inconsistent with otherwise progressive views.

   10. I have taught my son this about the new Muppets movie – the one where Amy Adams’ character is waiting for Jason Siegal to propose to her. I love the movie, and what it says about career comebacks (Go Kermit!) but not for what it says about feminism.

2. I’ve been busy at work and incommunicado for a while, and I wish I could say that’s going to change in the near future, but it’s probably not. However, I’ve just received a new assignment at work, and I could really use your wise advise. The new assignment requires me to keep the details of about 150 minor cases in my head, accessible on a moment’s notice at all times. I don’t have a particularly good memory for detail in the best of times, and I don’t know how I’m going to manage this. Does anyone have any particularly good tips they’ve used to help them remember all of this detail in a similar situation? FWIW, I’ll have access to a spreadsheet with a lot of the information, but I’ll be expected to recall it without referencing the spreadsheet.

   1. Your boss is being silly! Tell him so. Tell him I have about 250 active case’s and I use EXCEL also, which is OK, but with this # of case’s we also have MATTER MANAGMENT software. All of the cases are WC, so they are usueally the same–some schlub stops working and pretend’s to be hurt. Our job is to proove he is NOT injured. The matter managment software has field’s we fill in ONCE –age, height, weight, claime’d injury, special distincitive characteristic’s, company, etc.

      This way, if the cleint calls and you rembmeber the distinction for each schlub — i.e., a twisted ankel, you can just type in ankel and the relavant cases pop’s up. The same if you remember the schlub had a bald head. Type in “bald” and up pops all cases with a bald head. The rest is all right in front of you. You can then talk to the cleint off the top of your head even if you have NOT opened the file for MONTH’s! YAY!!!!!

      I would get this software b/c I have it on the IPHONE also! That is why everyone think’s I am so smart. It’s all in the software! But you HAVE to put the stuff in the software ONLEY once and then you are all set.

   2. I have some advice based on when I used to be a therapist, and found myself able to recall all sorts of details about many patients — it helps to have a picture. There’s no way that I could memorize all of that information just from words. I wonder if you can make up pictures / images in your head about the cases, so that you can “see” them mentally.

      I don’t know if that will work — it might depend on the nature of the cases. But for me, I have a much easier time recalling visuals. I can then fill in the details.

   3. That’s nuts. I do have a good memory and I have worked with a caseload of about 50 active cases (not as a lawyer) and been able to say: “Joe Smith, sure, he was the used-car salesman who lived in Wheaton who broke his leg at the train station” but I could not tell you what month the accident occurred or where his case was filed or his phone number (because I am not Erin Brockovich in the movies). I have worked with jerks who made noises if you could not immediately conjure up every detail, but they’re just jerks. You need an excellent spreadsheet and enough confidence to say, “I’ll check for that info.” They can wait 15 seconds. Now, more practically: After you create the spreadsheet, if you review it every morning you will be able to recall lots of it.

   4. Why can’t you access the spreadsheet at any given time? Depending on how many pages it is, could you either print it off and put it in a folder that you carry around or load it onto an iPad or similar?
      I’d much rather have someone say “the Jones-Smith case – one moment, let me check my notes, oh yes, that is dealing with ABCXYZ” and then get into details rather than either say “I think that is dealing with ABCXYZ or maybe LMNOP .blah blah details about both” or even worse get the details wrong. I have no problem waiting an extra 1-2 minutes while someone looks at well organized notes to make sure they are getting things right vs talking off the top of their head but possibly being completely wrong, or giving lots of caveats about how they might not even be talking about the right thing.

      If the spreadsheet is huge, I’m thinking you could make a 2-4 page cheat sheet of the spreadsheet, and the act of making the cheat sheet might help you learn the details, and then you refer to it as needed. Or are the cases similar enough that you could at least group them into categories, with one or two lines about what makes that case unique?

      ETA- I am not a lawyer. But I have no problem with people looking things up quickly.

   5. I think you start acquiring this skill ….. slowly, with reasonable expectations. You can’t suddenly memorize 150 cases at once. You improve your memory with each meeting/discussion of each case with others, and when you start adding new cases yourself (and are present from the beginning), then they will stick better.

      In medicine we have to essentially do this, but we still rely extensively on our computerized notes. There are some people who have crazy good memories, but most of us are human.

      Memory is helped by repeating things, using different sensory modalities. Write it down, so making a spread sheet is good, and possibly having a short running summary on each case in its “file”. Don’t start doing 150 summary sheets now…. perhaps create them as each case comes up. Some “summaries” may only be a couple sentences, or a short timeline. Have a similar “structure” to your summary sheets so that your brain knows quickly where to look to find the info you will need. Take notes while you have meetings with clients and update individual files (ideally, a running progress note/sheet?) as much as you can. Repeat important things by reading them out loud …. which is essentially what we do when we are on rounds.

      And give yourself a break. Your new assignment is actually not really possible. Getting to a basic/working comfort level with 150 cases is still very difficult. Get a system going for memorizing when you can, but I agree with others that you will ultimately still look most things up.

      1. +1. I read recently the human brain can only retain 7 things in active memory at any one time – think grocery lists, etc. So know that having facts for hundreds of things immediately at hand may just not be doable.

         1. +1 This is why writing was invented (and later, computers). You are basically being told to be a walking spreadsheet, instead of just being the access to the spreadsheet and someone (boss?) needs expectations adjusted.

   6. What level of detail on each case do you need to have committed to memory? If it’s just a short summary – jurisdiction, a sentence or two on each – I’d approach it like you were studying for the bar exam. Get flashcards, start quizzing yourself, and make a connection of how each relates to the broader assignment. But you can’t possibly be expected to know each case through and through. If that’s really the expectation, you need a bigger team to delegate to.

   7. wrong place

   8. I’m in finance not law but I have about 100-150 clients that I need to keep track of at any one time. On many of these, I’ve memorized loan numbers, phone numbers etc. For my top 10 clients, I can rattle off things like their phone numbers, loan numbers and corporate structure/key players. However, if someone is asking me something like leverage ratio or sales projections – even if I know the answer – I’m going to check my spreadsheet before answering. It’s just too much risk if I’m wrong on something so easily verified. I carry around an ActionDay planner and in that planner is a current copy of my “bible” with the relevant ratios, loan numbers, maturity dates, interest rate, foreclosure dates. Anyone who expects you to have perfect recall and memorize everything for 150 cases is unrealistic, and perhaps a jerk like Moonstone says above.

   9. If I were you, I’d categorize in some manner, then color code (so you have an associated image with each category of cases, if they are able to be categorized), and memorize key facts for each one – maybe even just a few words. But like others said, the more you interact with each case, the more you will remember them based on their name or number or whatever it is. Good luck.

3. My SO and I are looking for some new shows to watch together, now that Mad Men is ending. We’ve previously watched and liked The Office, 30 Rock, Parks and Rec and Top Chef (okay, that’s mostly me). We still watch Veep, OITNB and House of Cards, but we’re caught up on all of those. SO has loved pretty much everything on HBO (haven’t tried Girls) and Breaking Bad. I’m good with drama but not violence, which is why I never got into a lot of the HBO shows or Breaking Bad. We didn’t care for Scandal, and New Girl got boring for us halfway through season 3. We typically watch an episode or two at night a few nights a week. I’d love to hear what you ladies like watching!

   1. I’ve been enjoying Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt recently.

      1. Definitely Kimmy Schmidt if you liked 30 Rock & the other semi-goofy offices you like. It’s really well put together.

         Edited to Add: The Mindy Project and The New Girl also might be good, if you haven’t watched those, as they’re both quirky comedies with great ensemble casts (like Parks and Rec) <– Did I just turn myself into Netflix?

   2. Orphan Black? (I’m becoming a broken record on this but I just love it!) My SO and I really enjoy watching it together. Also I have gotten him pretty into Inside Amy Schumer.

      I don’t know if it’s your taste, but we LOVE The Flash on the CW.

   3. Not a new show, but I really enjoy Leverage (Netflix and Hulu, I think). It’s a mini-heist movie every episode.

      1. This, definitely, plus Burn Notice.

         1. And White Collar

   4. We really liked Better Call Saul, Bloodline, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt.

      1. Okay, Bloodline started with SO much promise and then it just. would. not. end! Am I the only one who felt like that? The story was great but could easily have been told in 6-7 episodes, not 13! By the time we got to episode 9, it was like running a marathon, but we were already committed, so we finished it off.

         1. I completely agree it dragged on, and yet at the same time I was disappointed when i finished the last episode and there was no more Bloodline to watch. I felt the same way about The Killing.

   5. The Americans is good.

      1. +1

   6. Party Down. It’s on Netflix, they only made 2 seasons, and i would pay money to watch it again for the first time.

      1. AGREE. It is absolutely hilarious.

      2. +a million

      3. + a million

   7. We’ve been watching Silicon Valley. I think it’s a very specific type of humor but I think it’s hilarious.

      1. I agree! I used to finance tech companies and work tech-adjacent now and some magazine pointed out that this show is frankly more documentary than comedy, and I think that’s true.

      2. My SO would agree with both of you! I really like it, but he absolutely loves it. I’ve only watched a few episodes, mostly when he has it on, but maybe I should catch up so we can watch together. Thanks!

      3. I would agree about the specific type of humor. I watched it with my computer engineer brother, and I found it annoying and he found it boring. Shrug, wasn’t our cup tea.

   8. My and my husband got sucked into watching The Last Ship. I didn’t think I would like it and didn’t pay much attention at first (was doing dishes, straightening up, etc.) but then couldn’t wait to see what would happen!

   9. I second the recommendations for Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt and Party Down, but I’d also suggest giving Season 4 of New Girl a try. We also got super bored during season 3 but I’m glad we stuck with it – 4 has been a lot better.

   10. Sounds like you guys both like the comedies of a certain type, so I would recommend…

       Bored to death
       Girls
       Enlightened
       The Comeback

       1. Oh, The Comeback is so terrific. I completely missed the first season a decade ago and it holds up really well. And the recent return season was great. I have a whole new appreciation for Lisa Kudrow.

   11. We have similar taste to you and your SO and we have liked The Good Wife and Hell On Wheels.

   12. Six Feet Under!

   13. Thanks for all the great responses! I do better with comedies because they’re typically shorter (if you can’t tell, he’s more of a tv watcher than I am). You’re all reminding me of a lot of shows I’ve heard of but slipped my mind, so this is an awesome list–like the Americans! That’s been on my list for a while. Mascot, how do you watch it? It’s not on netflix.

       Now I’m off to look up and save the rest of these… keep the recs coming!

       ETA: same to Watch list, how do you watch The Good Wife? So many great shows aren’t on netflix.

       1. The Good Wife is on Amazon Prime.

       2. The Good Wife is also on Hulu.

       3. The Good Wife is on Canadian netflix… I know we sometimes spoof our location to borrow the US version, but maybe you can do the same ?

   14. My boyfriend and I are planning on starting Broad City soon. And probably The Wire once Mad Men ends. I love the Mindy Project and talked him into trying it and he loves it now too.

       I hated Girls – i hate-watched it for the first few seasons and then just gave it up.

       What about Suits?

       1. I will just chime in to say my SO and I really like Girls just so you don’t automatically dismiss it as something you think you wouldn’t like. I thought it would make me feel old and I would be rolling my eyes at the ridiculous non-problems of super-hip, early-20 somethings, but like all good shows I think the writing is good, the characters are well developed and interesting, and it’s entertaining.

          On the other hand, I don’t love Kimmy Schmidt but my SO really likes it.

          1. +1 to Girls

   15. –2nd the Leverage recommendation
       –The IT Crowd — British sitcom, only 24(?) 1/2-hour episodes. Hi-larious.
       –Arrested Development
       –Firefly (if you’ll do sci-fi. Like a Western in space. Joss Whedon. Only 13 episodes and a movie.)
       –Turn — spies in the American revolution, orig. on AMC

       1. If you watch Firefly via Netflix, note that the episodes are not in the same order as they are on the DVDs, but are instead in the order they were aired (or something). And the order they were aired was stupid. I would recommend doing the DVD order.

          1. I definitely second this recommendation.

          2. Ugh, really!? I’ve only watched the DVDs, so I didn’t know this. That’s part of the reason the show was canceled. (who can follow a show when the pilot isn’t aired first!)

             1. I was also shocked, and appalled. I think the first 4-5 episodes are the same order as the DVDs (the right order), but it’s all mix up on the back end.

                As I discovered one evening when I was too lazy to watch the DVDs I own, and used Netflix instead.

   16. Freaks and Geeks is the best show ever. Really.

       1. I loved Freaks and Geeks. Also, the Walking Dead.

   17. Very similar tastes in my house. We also watch:

       -Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt
       -Silicon Valley
       -Brooklyn 99

   18. Call the Midwife is amazing.

       1. +1. I LOVED this show!

   19. There is an extremely short list of shows that my husband and I both like, but we’ve been watching Friday Night Lights together and have just loved every single minute of it.

       A few other suggestions: Doctor Who on Netflix, Mozart in the Jungle on Amazon Prime, Transparent on Amazon Prime.

   20. Fresh Off the Boat

4. On the topic of marriage, in reading the oral arguments for the gay marriage cases, I thought there was an interesting question that neither side really articulated a good response to so I thought I’d throw it out for discussion– what is the state’s interest in encouraging marriage? People have an interest in being married because it conveys certain benefits from the government (tax status, default rules on healthcare decisions, etc. and so forth), but why is it in the interest of the government to encourage marriage by offering these benefits? (putting aside all politics on whether or not you think gay marriage should be legal, if that’s possible)

   1. Stability and community investment. While many people are having kids without getting married, their non-traditional decisions tend to accompany non-traditional lives that often do not include investing in real estate and being stable and invested community members who contribute to their community. This can come from financial or social reasons, but it is true. Citizens who get married are more likely to create a “family” atmosphere, whether they have children or not, and will be engaged citizens, invest in their community, and have someone to rely on to avoid needing government assistance. In essence, married people put down roots, singles don’t. Not saying this is a rule or that different individuals should be allowed to make decisions that are right for them, but that’s the trend. From a larger scale perspective, a more stable community is healthier, more prosperous, and happier, which is theoretically what a government wants for its people.

      1. I agree with Bacon Pancake’s. Gay people SHOULD be allowed to marry b/c it is for stability. I would LOVE to be abel to marry a Guy to be the father of my children, and I want to live like I do now, b/c dad will NOT be around forever. Grandma Trudy had an episode we thought was VERY serius, but fortunateley, it turned out ONLEY to be gas. We had to go out there and take her to LIJ hospital. We took her home and gave her fig’s after the CT scan revealed NOTHING in her digestive track and the MRI showed food.

         The lesson for me and the hive is to have a husband to take care of you and to eat alot of fig’s so that you will NOT get backed up like Grandma Trudy. YAY!!!

      2. If the interest is in having children raised by two-parent households, then I guess you have to outlaw divorce, too?

      3. Is there any evidence for any of these assertions whatsoever?

   2. Because children do better when they have a stable 2-parent household. The stats all prove this. I’m the successful product of a single-mother (by choice) household but even I can acknowledge that in general, 2 parents are best. Marriage is a commitment that people generally take more seriously than just living together.

      1. If the interest is in having children raised by two-parent households, then I guess you have to outlaw divorce, too?

         1. No because while a two parent household is generally better than a one parent household (more people to help out, more money to pay bills) a two parent household with rampant domestic violence for example isn’t better than a safe one parent household. There are many competing interests in relationships, that’s why they are so complicated.

      2. But you can have a stable, two-parent household without a marriage.

         1. +1000

   3. My .02 – it’s a more stable existence for the people in it, so two less people likely to need government services if things go sideways. The counter argument is you can get this by living with someone and marriage isn’t necessary, but it’s such a long standing societal construct that many people think it’s necessary to make a thick and thin commitment to each other.

      1. And if things do go south, the court can order support to avoid government assistance. They can’t do this for the partnered but not married.

         Technically, in my state, things don’t have to go south ie: divorce. A spouse can actually petition the court to order the other spouse to pay support while the parties are still married. This could occur where the parties keep money separate, one can’t access the other’s funds and has a need the spouse refuses to meet. I have never seen it in practice but I have heard it has been used to order payment for disputed medical care before.

         1. Two words: cohabitation agreement. If you can’t be thoughtful enough to do this, you probably shouldn’t be partnering in the first place.

            1. That’s a very privileged point of view you’ve got there.

            2. I think this is a really entitled and elitist viewpoint to think that the average person who is partnering even knows that cohabitation agreements are a thing, let alone how to put one in place. Many people who partner do so because marriage is financially out of reach, and those are not the people who can just call up their law school buddy to draft a quickie cohab agmt.

            3. +1 to Wildkitten & Anonymous.

   4. Default/next of kin presumptions free up government resource. For example, you don’t have to get permission from a court for all healthcare decisions. I also agree with some of the stability arguments stated above.

      1. Wow, I haven’t thought about all of this before. Thanks for your comments and the comments about marriage getting the government off the hook for many basic needs. Very interesting (and cynical!).

         1. Agreed, very interesting. I probably wouldn’t have thought of the defaults freeing up gov’t resources angle (and I’m extremely cynical usually), but I guess that is the point of having default rules on things.

      2. +1. Also, laws re: intestacy, distribution of property, etc., all depend on who the spouse is for legal purposes.

   5. IDK, but here is my interest:

      I used to work with a guy who, when asked if he was married, said “it’s complicated.” That meant: he had a wife, but he still dated. Another guy said “I’m separated,” which meant “still married” (there is no legal separation in some states, some of which have criminal conversation laws that angry spouses use).

      When you are married in state A but not in state B, do you have to get divorced? Or can you just remarry? Who inherits if you die intestate? Who can claim elective shares? What about (in my state): criminal conversation?

   6. It’s largely about the ownership and control of property. Ask a family lawyer.

      1. Yes! I bought a house when I was single. When I tried to sell it, my husband had to come to the closing (he wasn’t on the title and he wasn’t obligated under the loan; if I stopped paying, my credit would suffer but not his) to sign off on selling it.

         And I used to watch too much Big Love — that is an interesting question (more so than the first cousins thing).

         Also, one problem I see in elder law cases is widowers having capacity to marry (it is less than you might think) and “marrying” (secretly) their caregivers. I would think that this could open up widows to the same sort of abuse (not by design, just b/c the criminal mind is so creative and enterprising).

         1. +1. The bar for capacity is very low and the bar for undue influence is very high.

         2. When my husband bought an investment property with his parents, I had to come to the closing to sign my name one time, basically acknowledging that I knew he was entering into a mortgage. Apparently it is an old law in my state that says a husband can’t get a mortgage without his wife’s knowledge (hence my signature) but it isn’t technically the law in reverse, because at the time it was written no one thought about a married woman buying a house on her own.

            Which leads to an interesting question followup question – if a law actually uses the terms “husband” and “wife”, I wonder how this would relate if gay marriage is made legal in my state. Would a gay man have to have his husband’s acknowledgement? or would a gay woman need her wife’s? Both? Neither?

            1. I think all of those laws would be ruled unconstitutional and have to be updated to “spouse” if someone challenged them.

            2. Or there might just be a statute added that says he also means she and husband also means wife. I think a lot of states have taken that approach rather than reprinting all the books.

   7. None. The state has no business being involved in any aspect of marriage. Why should my taxes or my expected retirement or my access to health insurance or my primary residence deduction (or, in decades past, my ability to own property) depend on whether I am committed in my personal life to another human being? Answer: it should not.

      Having said that, if the state is going to get involved and distribute benefits and burdens based on whether a person has committed himself or herself to another human being, it should do so equally for everyone.

      But I still vote for no state involvement in marriage. You want a religious ceremony? Be my guest. You want a meaningful-to-you commitment ceremony? Via con dios. You want to quietly commit to each other and any children you may have, for decades, without any ceremony or paperwork? Excellent. Under each of these circumstances, you will still be meeting any legitimate purpose I can think of: building the community, providing stability, raising children together, devoting yourselves to each other. And all without the State breathing down your neck.

      I digress.

      BTW, I am listening to the oral arguments on the SCt website, and they are fascinating.

      1. You just touched on biggie I completely forgot about! Presumption of paternity. This is another outdated concept but if a woman is married and gets pregnant the husband is the automatic legal father unless he contests it. If an unwed woman is pregnant a man has to agree he is the father and sign the birth certificate. If he doesn’t agree then the woman has to go to court to prove paternity. This obviously is a whole different matter in same sex parent cases . In hetero marriages, however, it creates an automatic assumption of paternity for each child born.

         1. True. I had forgotten about that one, too.

            Frankly, though, if you make a child with a man who won’t even enthusiastically put his name on the birth certificate, wouldn’t you and the child be better off without him? He’s unlikely to provide either financial or emotional/developmental/dad-type support, and you can find other, better ways to provide that support without him.

            1. If you wind up on welfare, I think the state will seek to get a support order so daddy is paying some money and they state is less on the hook. They go after the person on the birth certificate.

               They also do this to make sure that the kid can get on the parent’s help insurance.

            2. This.

            3. Actually, not necessarily. I can understand a man wanting to verify paternity–and there are circumstances where it would be reasonable to question it–before committing to raising a child. It is a vast generalization to say someone who doesn’t “enthusiastically put his name on the birth certificate” is unlikely to provide any type of support. Your comment speaks of how things *should* be, but not always are.

               Also, what um said.

               ETA: this is Pretty Primadonna. Not sure why my comment is showing up as Anonymous.

      2. Don’t forget the marriage penalty. Seriously, I do understand the rationale that my partner’s income and mine should be taxed at the same rate because we are a single economic unit. But on the other hand, why do I have to pay more income tax married than I would single? And yet like a lemming, I still jumped over the marriage cliff.

      3. If you can’t be thoughtful enough to conjugate verbs correctly you probably shouldn’t speak Spanish. Or make sweeping judgements about whether other people are thoughtful enough. One or the other.

         1. Oh, give it a rest.

         2. If you can’t be thoughtful enough to use commas correctly, you probably shouldn’t criticize the grammar of others (in any language).

            1. My cohabitation agreement is a whole page of just commas.

      4. Same-sex couples who have not had the opportunity to marry would disagree. It takes a lot of work and expense for unmarried couples to set up similar legal protections for their relationship and property to those automatically conferred with marriage.

   8. Well, it costs the government to go after parents who miss child support payments.

5. My husband and I are planning a 5-day trip to Portland, Oregon with another couple in May. We will have a car and are planning a day trip to Cannon Beach and another to Mount St. Helens (with a stop in Vancouver). Other than going to Voodoo Donut, our plans are completely open. Anyone have any tips or “must see/eat” in Portland or the surrounding areas?

   1. Can I ask why the stop in Vancouver? It’s a perfectly nice little town, but not any place I’d make a point of stopping unless I had family to visit or something. Mt. St. Helens is a long drive (totally worth it), so I wouldn’t add to it by stopping in Vancouver (which is also right outside of Portland).

      Driving up the Columbia Gorge is awesome – the Bonneville Dam has a fantastic visitor center that lets you go inside the power house and actually walk on the turbines, there are lots of beautiful waterfalls, and Hood River is a great turnaround point/lunch spot.

      (For the uninitiated: Vancouver, WA and Vancouver, BC = not the same thing.)

      1. Really, it was on the way to Mount St. Helens so we figured eh, might as well stop there. Good to know it probably isn’t worth it .

         1. second: Vancouver, WA it’s just a sort of suburban-ish small city, not worth a stop.

   2. The Willamette Valley is about an hour drive south of Portland. If you are into wine, you can easily spend a day there.

      I’d also second the drive around the Columbia Gorge. It was one of the most beautiful places I’ve ever seen in the U.S., and Hood River is a really cute town.

      1. Also, great wine and charming wineries along the Columbia River.

      2. If you’re going to drive out the Gorge, you might as well hike Multnomah Falls.

         For must-dos in Portland: Saturday Market (which is on Saturdays and Sundays) and Portland Farmer’s Market (on Saturdays). Checking out the various shopping districts like NW 23rd, the Pearl, Hawthorne/Belmont, and Mississippi/Williams. Going to the International Rose Test Garden is fun, and the Chinese Garden in Old Town is beautiful. OMSI After Dark can be pretty fun but I don’t know if that’s weekly or monthly.

         For restaurants and bars: Pok Pok, Apizza Scholls, Departure, Veritable Quandary, Apex, The Box Social, Lardo, Kenny and Zukes, Tilt. Just a random list with a variety of locations, food, and prices.

         1. FOOOOD! Just eat food. The whole time. Don’t go to Voodoo Donuts – go to Blue Star Donuts, or Coco Donuts, or get pie at Lauretta Jeans, or ice cream at Salt and Straw. Go to St. Honore Boulangerie and sit and people watch while drinking mimosas, listening to Edith Piaf, and eating a variety of French pastries. Get amazing sushi at Bamboo Sushi. Go meat-tastic at Beast, Ox, or Laurelhurst Market. Get awesome Thai at Pok Pok or Langbaan. I would honestly just eat the whole time.

            Another fun thing – go to the food cart pod on SE 28th Place and Division. Outdoor music and beer garden with a firepit and a variety of food carts.

            Otherwise, people watch while drinking wine outside in the Pearl District (where Powell’s Books is and lots of other shopping), or on NW 23rd Avenue. Walk down N. Mississippi Avenue and shop, eat and drink. Go to Laurelhurst Park after getting picnic fare and take a blanket and sit and relax.

            I suppose all of this is dependent on having good weather, but things are looking good right now. (Currently sunny and about 70 degrees outside).

   3. Powell’s Book Store is awesome, I could spend all day there. If you’re into beer, there is a plethora of breweries there. Laurelwood and Lompoc are my favorite bigger ones, but there are lots of smaller to tiny ones.

      Since you’re driving out to Cannon Beach, get coffee at Sleepy Monk Coffee, it is great! Also, Astoria is cool if you want a view of the mouth of the Columbia River (from the Astoria Column).

      1. +1 to Powell’s.

      2. +1 to beer and other alcohol options. Cascade Brewing has an amazing menu of sour beers – they are SO good and fun to drink. Other good breweries: Burnside Brewing, Hair of the Dog, Tugboat and Rogue. The Commons Brewery is new and has a cheese bar. There’s also Cooper’s Hall which is an urban winery with tons of wine on tap. Multnomah Whiskey Bar is really fun for whiskey and scotch.

   4. Thank you all for the suggestions!

6. Ever since my husband and I moved to our new house, I have been waking up feeling utterly exhausted and I can’t figure out why. At first, I actually wasn’t getting enough sleep because of all the stress of unpacking and such. But it’s been 2 weeks and I’m back to my regular sleep schedule, yet I still wake up feeling like I want to sleep for several more hours. I’m able to shake the feeling after about an hour and a cup of coffee, but it’s completely preventing me from working out in the morning now. Any thoughts on what could be the issue or how to fix it?

   1. Have you taken a pregnancy test?

      Complaints like this is how my mother first thought I was pregnant (she didn’t say anything, but I was so sincerely confused about why I was so tired all the time).

   2. Total guesses:

      – different building materials than the old house, and maybe they affect your breathing/sleeping even though you don’t know it?

      – different window exposure, which affects which rooms in the house get sunlight when?

      – different noise?

   3. When I first moved into my house I was tired and sore from the hardwood floors. I didn’t realize how much harder they were than fake wood laminate and obviously they were much harder than carpet. I had always lived places w/ a mix of carpet and laminate and my legs were just done after walking on hard wood only. I also have hard wood only at work so between the two my feet never got a break. I eventually got used to it and toughened up lol.

   4. Is there anything interrupting your sleep cycles without fully waking you (so you’re never quite getting the deep phase of sleep)? Noises or something? Or maybe just because you’re unconsciously on edge being in a new environment. How do you sleep in new places generally? Is there anything about the set up of the room that makes you uneasy? I had a bedroom once that was sort of more like a large hallway (it was in a converted old house and I think my bedroom had been the dining room). I slept poorly there because the open pass-through set-up made me subconsciously uneasy.

   5. Pregnant.

   6. Could you be allergic to something in your new house or neighborhood? If something in the new house set off allergies it could definitely impact your sleep quality even if you aren’t experiencing many symptoms. We moved from the city to the suburbs (with farmland right behind out house) and I went from minor seasonal allergies to horrific allergies that require me to take OTC allergy meds year-round or I end up with debilitating allergy symptom (face covered in hives, hacking cough, violent sneezing). I am assuming you would have mentioned if you had any other issues, but from what I’ve researched, allergens in the bedroom are a huge problem.

   7. Did anyone mention carbon monoxide? It’s a long shot but worth checking out.

      1. Woah. This is such a good and scary suggestion.

         1. Or Radon! It’s also colourless and odourless

   8. Thanks for the responses, all! So many things that I hadn’t even thought about (well, except the pregnancy thing, but I don’t think that’s it…). When I first moved in I had a stuffy nose a lot too, but I chalked that up to it being cherry blossom season in DC, and it’s since subsided. The noise thing though could definitely be it. We live on a generally quiet street but our room faces the street and you can definitely hear easily when cars do go by. I didn’t think anything of it since I wasn’t actually waking up, but perhaps my deep sleep is getting disrupted by it. Will try some earplugs!

      1. Did you used to wake up to sunlight coming in your window and now you don’t? Getting exposed to morning sun is the fastest way to make me feel more awake.
         Alternately, is there too much light from streetlights coming in your windows keeping you from getting good sleep? Do you need new window treatments that block light better?
         Did you repaint or put in new carpeting right before you moved in? There could still be VOCs that are off-gassing contributing to that foggy-headed feeling.

         Last, have you been skipping your regular workouts for the past two weeks? When I finally get a workout routine established, skipping them gets me out of whack sleep wise for the next few days. Can you sleep in as late as you want on Saturday and/or Sunday and then workout those days to see if that helps jump start you back into routine?

   9. I’m allergic to new carpet and the allergies from that make me feel more tired. I found this out when we moved into an apartment with new carpet. You may have some sort of unknown-to -you allergy to something in the new house that is making you more drowsy in the morning. Just an idea.

   10. you also might consider trying to track your sleep with an app like Sleep Cycle. It’s probably not terribly accurate, but it should give an indication of how deep you are sleeping/for how long/how often, and it might give you clues. I believe it is based on the accelerometer/motion detector in your phone. I find it helpful in a general sense to see how rested I feel v. how restful my sleep cycle appears to be.

   11. It’s haunted.

   12. Is it actually a new building? I moved into an apartment block where I was the first tenant and the out gases caused sleeves and exhaustion. Good luck!

7. Got a job offer and I am ecstatic about the team, the work and the long-term potential, things I do not have at my current job. I am not easily scared, but the conversation I need to have with my current boss is going to be tougher. She has no idea it’s coming because I viewed this role as my acting debut, and I might deserve an Oscar at this point. Any advice or your own stories?

   I plan to keep it short, sweet and non-personal, but the boss will expect more. Dreading it…

   1. Who cares what the boss expects? You’re f ing quitting!

      Hey boss, I’m leaving the company. It’s been a pleasure working here but I’m excited for a new opportunity. My last day will be x, which will give me time to wrap things up by doing y and z.

      Then stop talking. If she pushes, repeat yourself. If she’s nasty “I can see this has come as a shock. Let’s talk later when you’ve had a chance to adjust”. And walk out

      1. +1, people leave jobs all the time.

   2. No experience, but I’m hoping (dreading) being in the same situation. My plan would be to focus on the positives for your own career, thank boss for the opportunities of the current role and regret the inconvenience leaving will cause.

      Maybe time it so that you can’t stay for more than 5-10 minutes (another meeting, meeting some for lunch, boss has a meeting to get to…)

      1. thanks for the insights – my situation is a bit more unique and akin to being a family member leaving the family-run company. So she’s going to take it personally and focusing too much on the positives for my career will just remind her I’m leaving her at a pivotal time for the company, but I can’t stay. There’s never a real “off-season” to this job, part of my reason for going.

   3. When I left my old job, I knew that my boss was going to take it very, very hard and be very surprised (similar to you, I did an excellent job of acting happy). In preparation for quitting, I committed to memory a few sound bites about why I was choosing this new opportunity. I had a sound bite to respond with if he was mad (“I’m sorry you are upset. I am so appreciative for all of the mentoring you provided me with”), a sound bite for if he was sad, etc. Although my actual “speech” giving my notice was short, I prepared a response for his possible reactions. As it turned out, he went through the entire cycle of emotions (including nasty) when I told him I was leaving and I used every single one of the sound bites I had come up with. Your Oscar worthy acting may not be finished yet :) When I saw my boss a few months after I left, he gave me a big hug and told me that he appreciated how professional I was when I gave my notice and that I would always have a place there if I ever wanted to go back (never). Although I have no interest in ever going back, my field is small and I run into people from that company all the time. Sometimes it pays to act :) Congratulations on the new opportunity!!!

      1. Sometimes it helps to tell people how to respond, or to semi-lie:

         “I know you’ll be happy for me, because I will be leaving, but I’ll still be sorry to have to set my last date as 2 weeks from now…”

8. I posted about three weeks ago about the traumatic end to a relationship. I wanted to say thank you again for all the kind words and encouragement I received. Thank you so much, MegB, Wildkitten, Nutella, August, Count C, Anon in NYC, Zelda, ErinF, anon, espresso bean, DC Anon, Sacha, Jen, A Naan, & NavyLawyer!!! Knowing others had experienced something similar and lived to tell was helpful. I don’t think I’m “over things,” but every day is a little better.

   I didn’t mention this before, but I’ve been trying to finalize a thesis during this time, too. The first week was really rough, and I was worried that I’d be able to complete it on time. I was angry at myself for letting that stupid person affect my concentration. I kept reading your words and then got to work. I’m just about to click “submit” now, and I feel like it’s a great end to what seemed like a rather lousy April! Tomorrow one of my best friends is coming to visit, and I have a large bottle of sangria & “The Other Woman.” :-)

   I’ve scheduled all sorts of activities for the month of May to keep myself busy and enjoying life. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

   1. Yay, you! Good work! Congrats! Champagne! Happiness!

   2. I’m so glad you’re doing okay! Awesome job on your thesis, and enjoy your friend and sangria!

   3. Great success!!!

   4. Thanks for updating us! I’m so glad to hear you’re taking care of yourself and moving forward. And congrats on finishing your thesis!

   5. Congrats! ALL THE wine, cheese, cookies, whatever your thing is for you!!

9. If I usually wear a 12/size L skirt most places, but a 14 at Banana Republic and like stores, should I go for the L or XL at Brooks Brothers?

10. Hope this is not too late for this thread!
    Heading to Portland for the weekend and debating (bordering on obsessing…) about whether to bring knee high boots. As noted in some discussion earlier this week, here in the SF bay we wear them all year round – I have a pair of patagonia boots that are super comfy for walking around, but not sure if it will be too warm for the boots-leggings-dress combo this weekend.

    Portland ladies – what are you wearing these days?

    Thanks!!

    1. Boots might be a bit warm. I haven’t worn my boots in weeks, but then I’m more of a pants girl anyways. And it’s supposed to be high 60s to low 70s this weekend, so that would be too warm for me. I’ve been wearing ballet flats and Keds.

    2. Portland summers are warmer than SF. I’d do ankle boots or comfy sneakers.

    3. I was in Portland last weekend and I really wished I would have brought my boots. So my vote is bring them. :)

    4. This weekend is going to be AWESOME weather. I would not bring the boots, personally. A lot of people here will probably be going full-bore summer clothes this weekend because it’s going to be sunny and 70 degrees.

       Right now, on the weekends, wearing Toms, flip flops, sperrys, colorful sneakers, or ankle boots.

       But, if they’re comfortable and you love them, bring them. One of the best things about Portland is its utter lack of dress code at all times and all places. People just wear whatever. 80 degrees and sunny? You will see people in wool beanies and black leather jackets, because hipsters.

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