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Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Cardigan without buttons
Help me shop? I need a black cardigan or jardigan that looks professional. Something I can wear with dresses at work. Here’s the catch – I’m hoping to find one without buttons.
anonymous
I would suggest checking Macy’s website. Look for an open drape cardigan. I think someone posted last week about a Karen Kane one from there. I also have a couple from the Alfani brand at Macy’s.
Anon
Search for open front or waterfall cardigans.
Triangle Pose
MM La Fleur Sant Ambroseus black jardigan. I think it runs large and needed and XS but others on here thought it ran small so I’d try it on first.
Anonymous
https://m.shop.nordstrom.com/s/eileen-fisher-merino-straight-long-cardigan-regular-petite/5448808/full?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FWomen%2FClothing%2FSweaters%2FCardigan&fashioncolor=Black&color=none
There are tons of options at Nordstrom.
In-House in Houston
This might work, no buttons. I posted about it last week and several readers bought it and love it too. And it’s even less expensive now…just $25! I’m going to buy it in another color. I have it in espresso roast and it’s a really pretty color.
https://www.macys.com/shop/product/karen-scott-open-front-cardigan-created-for-macys?ID=8944388&lid=pdp_details
Original Moonstone
I have this in navy and am getting one is espresso roast.
anon
I just bought this in black, espresso and gray based on a recommendation here and it’s a great piece.
Does anyone know if Macy’s does price adjustments? I bought three of this for $39 each just two weeks ago.
rosie
Anyone tried machine washing this yet?
Anonymous
Can anyone advise on the sizing of the Karen Scott open front cardigan? I’m 5’5″ and 125lbs, and am not sure if the xsmall or small would be appropriate.
Anonymous
I’m usually a size 8/medium and sized down to a small.
Anonymous
I love love love my Sophie open-front sweater-blazer from JCrew.
Panda Bear
+1 I was going to suggest looking at this too.
Anonymous
If time is not of the essence, figure out your size in MM La Fleur jardigans and order from Ebay or Poshmark
Anon
I HIGHLY recommend the MM Lafleur jardigans. I have a Woolf (slightly longer) and a St. Ambroseus (more cropped) and they are staples in my wardrobe. I did have to size up.
Anon
Yes, I am in love with the Woolf (the longer version).
Coach Laura
I love the MMLF Woolf but with some dresses/some body shapes, the The Sant Ambroeus Jardigan looks better. With MMLF, the best part is ordering and return shipping are free so you can try it out. I also second the idea of checking Poshmark.
Anon
Any recommendation for a good cookbook or nutrition book to ease into vegetarianism? I tried forgoing meat for about 6 months a few years ago and ended up getting B12 deficiency. So I’m interested in how to do it again without getting into the same troubles. While I don’t oppose supplements, I would still prefer to get B12 as naturally as possible.
Anon
Your options for non-animal B12 are limited and the solution is to really found in a cookbook. Either eat a lot of eggs and dairy, or go the supplement route – whether it be a multivitamin or fortified cereals.
I’m not a nutrionist, but I’ve been a vegetarian for over 20 years and my health is outstanding. Currently pregnant and my blood work is great. But I take a multivitamin every single day.
Anon
Ugh, solution is not found in a cookbook.
anon.
Yep. I’ve been a vegetarian for 25 years (since early middle school). I started taking B12 a few years ago. It’s not a given, but you may just need it.
Anon
Continue to eat eggs and you’ll be fine. Fish would be good too if you’ll do pescaterarian.
Anonymous
Eggs and dairy but you obviously just need to take supplements. You already tried this and it didn’t work.
Z
I am vegetarian and take B12, it is no big deal. Vegetarian sources include nutritional yeast, yogurt, and eggs. Vegans swear by nutritional yeast to get B12. Sprinkle it on pasta, make vegan cheeze sauce with it. But just take supplements, then you know you’re always getting what you need.
nona
Or develop a taste for Vegemite (b12 spreadable concentrate)
Anonymous
Or Marmite!
Anon
Eggs and milk contain b12. Certain foods like cereals are also fortified with b12.
Anon
This is not a question for Anon above, but I am wondering if fortified items like cereals are any different than just taking supplements
Anon
Not really. Hence my belief that it’s just easier to take a multivitamin. (I am the Anon at 9:03 am.)
Anon
I think B12 is just a common deficiency much like Vitamin D. I was told to just take a supplement, no big deal.
RinBos
Indian-ish by Priya Krishna
Cool fancy denim brands for pears
I never could afford the cool expensive jeans thing . . . until now where I have some splurge funds and an office dress code that is now denim-friendly. I have hips and an ex-sprinter’s thighs. What are good spendy denim brands to try first? And it used to be that I’d see women wearing them hemmed long and then very high pointy heels. What is current ideal length and footwear for looking cool in cool-girl jeans? [I either wear boot-cuts with western boots or skinnies with something like Rothys or other flat shoes/sandals.]
Cat
AG and rag & bone are my two favorites (pear here). I look for styles that have a relatively low % stretch, which may sound counterintuitive, but 98% cotton and 2% synthetic is my favorite for having enough stretch to be comfortable, but not so much that the jeans feel more like leggings than supportive, suck-it-in pants.
True cool girls are wearing, IMHO, wildly unflattering 90s mom jean type styles. For work, I still like trouser style jeans (these look best with heels IMHO and must be hemmed perfectly) or classic skinnies with flats or low block heels.
Anonymous
I do see that a lot: mom jeans (and mom jeans shorts that are terrifyingly short) with crop tops. And the cross-body fanny back (ahem: belt bag). Pretty soon, we’ll be getting perms again.
Anon
I second AG – I personally love the Farrah cut (high waisted, skinny), and agree that the 98% cotton/2% synthetic seem to fit and hold up the best.
LawyrChk
I have a similar body type and like both Joe’s Honey and Le Frame Skinny Jeanne.
Once I found my size and brand and wear tested a couple new pairs from Nordstrom for a while, I started buying them lightly used on Poshmark, usually around $30-40/pair.
Cookbooks
+1 to Joe’s Honey. They fit well, and they’ve lasted me quite a while.
Anonome
+2 to Joe’s Honey. I’m a short pear, and these jeans are the only ones that don’t gap at the lower back.
Anonymous
Try looking around your office to see what looks you admire on other people. As far as brands go, I suggest you try Madewell because it’s less expensive than true premium denim but has many style options that work well at my denim casual office. Admittedly, I’m not a pear, but I see women with a wide variety of body types shopping there. Twenty-something women in my office are still wearing skinnies with flats or ankle booties, but I live in Boston and none of my co-workers are particularly fashion-forward.
Z
I really like Madewell! I just bought my first 2 pairs a couple months ago and they’re favorites now. I also love that you can bring in old jeans to recycle and they give you $20 off a new pair. The old jeans get turned into insulation for Habitat for Humanity homes.
Veronica Mars
I have weirdly specific advice on this one. One of my aunts ran a denim-based boutique in the mid 2000s-2010s when premium denim first debuted and I worked there part time. At the time, the main differentiators for the big brands (Rock and Republic, Diesel, Seven for All Mankind, Citizens of Humanity, True Religion, Paige) were the washes, the cut, and the treatment of the denim itself. Usually “premium” denim was much thinner and treated than traditional brands (which also made it more prone to ripping and wearing through, but very comfortable and stylish). Nowadays, there’s really no “need” to get premium denim. The washes have trickled down to mainstream, and the treatment of the denim is much higher quality as an industry over all. You may find one brand’s cut fits you better, but that would be what I’d prioritize. I buy mine now from White House Black Market and they remind me of Seven for All Mankind (my favorite back in the day).
Anon
I think the current cool girl look is more like Madewell or Rag & Bone. The premium denim trend has kind of run its course, it’s now easy to find great jeans everywhere.
Anonanonanon
I’m pear-shaped even though I’m thin, and even though my size is small, I go for a curvy fit. Madewell curvy fit skinny jeans have been amazing for me.
Anonymous
There’s a very thoughtful and provocative article in the Atlantic. It’s a long read, bu worthwhile if you are interested in schools and education.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/10/when-the-culture-war-comes-for-the-kids/596668/
Anon
I was going to post this as well. The part about the bathroom policy insanity really stuck with me.
Anon
Also, so do this part: “At times the new progressivism, for all its up-to-the-minuteness, carries a whiff of the 17th century, with heresy hunts and denunciations of sin and displays of self-mortification. The atmosphere of mental constriction in progressive milieus, the self-censorship and fear of public shaming, the intolerance of dissent—these are qualities of an illiberal politics.”
Anon
Yup. This.
Anon
Good lord, makes me glad I’m not raising a kid in NYC.
Anonymous
+1 million
[Although: have any b-school types put together a business plan for a private preschool in NYC? If you’re turning away people when it costs $50K/year, maybe I need to be doing this?]
Anonymous
Uh yes this is being done constantly. Turning people away is what gives you the caché to charge 50k. It’s not about having enough spots.
Anon
+1. I’m in the Midwest. My kid goes to an amazing play-based daycare/preschool that I’m confident will adequately prepare her for kindergarten, but she didn’t have to interview for it and they don’t do anything academic with infants or young toddlers. Oh and it’s $18k/year for infants, about $10k/year for preschoolers. I started reading this but I felt like I was getting hives so I had to stop.
Anon
I thought it was horrific and narcisstic.
If you get to the point wherein your two-year-old is being interviewed for preschools, you have failed as a parent and a human. These people have the resources to move to almost any other city in America wherein this isn’t an issue, but choose to subject their family to this crazy. That’s not an indictment of America; they are choosing this so that they have (checks notes) access to Broadway shows…?
Anonymous
NYC is just extra insane.
But in my SEUS city, you can send your kid to TK that is 25K / year. In my state, K isn’t mandatory, let alone TK, so you have spent $50K for . . . I’m not sure what.
Our public schools are tolerable-to-good and they would have to be awful before I’d stop using them.
Anon
You *can,* but do you need to in order for your kid to get into a high school that is not failing?
Anonymous
In my city, the default is based on neighborhoods, so our default is a good school that is huge (3000?), maybe 25-30% free lunch, which is low for the city as a whole. There are some test-in high schools and programs that are far away (so not do-able when your mom works until you can drive yourself; not sure we’d be able to afford a nanny/driver), and some you audition for (performing arts).
The benefit of the local huge school is that you can take college credits by co-enrolling at our very good community college that abuts the neighborhood, getting transferrable credits (and do AP classes as a junior).
I mean, kids flunk out, others do fine (like full rides at Ivy schools / flagship state U), others founder and recover. But it’s not a bad preparation for how life or being an adult actually works.
Anonymous
There are literally 1 million children in NYC attending public schools, including mine. These articles are not about all New Yorkers, they are about a very small percent. Most of us cannot afford to and do not want to live that way.
Anonymous
Yes exactly
Anon
YES. I am so tired of the outrage about “raising kids in NYC” based on how a tiny amount of extremely rich people perform that richness. I grew up in NYC and am raising my kid here, and about 75% of my friends are native New Yorkers raising kids here too. This article not representative, but no one is interested in an article about how I signed up my kid to attend kindergraten at her very good zoned school where all of her daycare/preschool friends are going to also go. That she can walk to from my apartment that I can afford as a single parent on my government employee salary.
Anonymous
Just want to say that I would love to read that article because after living in NYC (albeit child free, working with those who did perform that kind of richness), I would love a detailed look into more normal parenting / family life.
Anonymous
Yup. Its all woe is me my poor child but my dude you are the one doing this to your child.
Anonymous
Yes. But. If all of the other kids are getting XYZ early schooling, then do you really want your kid not to keep up with whatever the norm has would up being?
It’s so hard to know what to do, as a non-educator, to know if your kid is on track, especially when you hear nightly how bad our local public schools are (some in-school felony seems to lead off the late news), how dismal the results, etc.
It’s sort of like youth sports — everything tends to the extremes. There seems to be no market for doing a normal amount of things, normally and age-appropriately, to perfectly average kids. FWIW, I love New York, but I think having kids would be what would be the breaking point for moving far out or elsewhere.
Anonymous
They are not. It’s a myth.
Anonymous
I was always amazed at how my woke neighbors all send their kids to $25K/kid/year schools “because the public schools are awful and the kids would be so behind if we ever moved back to NYC / Boston / somewhere in the northeast.”
I am 55% sure they are wrong. But I do worry that there is some truth to their concerns. I truly don’t know.
As a parent, don’t a lot of people spring for organic grass-fed milk? Is this not the organic grass-fed milk of schooling?
At any rate, we go to the OK public schools b/c if I ever lost my job, I’d hate to also have to change my kids’ school b/c mommy lost her job. I spend some of what I’m saving on some supplementing in math, which I do feel is lacking, and paying a teacher with a master’s degree to pick them up from aftercare and take them to the library to get books and oversee homework twice a week. Because I really want to believe that it will be OK but I want some reassurance.
anon
“There seems to be no market for doing a normal amount of things, normally and age-appropriately, for perfectly average kids.” I think that’s because, at least in our culture, few people admit they have perfectly average kids.
I live in the suburb of a SEUS city. I’m a parent of a 4-year-old, and I actually believe my kid is pretty average. He performed about average on entrance tests for both private school and the public, “gifted” school, he’s not reading or doing math yet, he shows no particular athletic ability, he’s not advanced in any other specific skill or ability, and his attention span is pretty normal for a 4-year-old (short). Of course I love him and think he has a wonderful, unique personality. But, my goodness, suggest to any other parent that your own kid might be just normal or average, and they give you a horrified look as if you’ve suggested you may drop your kid off on the doorstep of an orphanage. Then they rush to reassure you that your kid is smart or whatever they think you want to hear.
We really try to do a normal amount of things in a normal, age-appropriate way. We try not to over-schedule ourselves, but even this far outside of NYC, there’s pressure to sign up for everything, to pay for extra tutoring, and to give your kid everything except your own time and attention.
Preach
OMG anon @ 11:35 – you are speaking to my soul. I have 2 lovely boys. They are sweet and fun and…average. When I say this, people feel bad for me. Or rush to assure me that they’ll find their particular gift. I am very happy with my children and their average-ness. We’re trying to raise to have a good work ethic and values, and honestly I feel optimistic about their future. I’m ok with a normal life. I have a normal life, and I’m satisfied with it.
Sarabeth
It’s totally the organic grass-free milk of schooling. That said, I have my own qualms about the realities of public school education. Both my kids attend public school in what is commonly regarded as a failing district. They are doing fine, so far, but there are 29 kids in my younger kid’s kindergarten class, and my older kid spends way more time looking at screens than is actually appropriate for a second grader. The schools are very much underfunded, and it shows up in all sorts of ways.
Anonymous
This was my take on it as well. My husband and I read the article and were basically like, why would anyone do this to themselves, and especially why would you do it to your children? I live in flyover America and very honestly, if our local schools did some of the stuff the school in the article did (see: changing to non-gendered bathrooms without telling parents) the school would end up on the nightly news and the school’s leadership would be fired. It wouldn’t be so much about the non-gendered bathrooms (we live in a fairly liberal area) as it would be about the fact that the school did something like that and didn’t let parents know in advance or even when it happened, and kids suffered as a result. I was so sad about the part where kids would race home to go to the bathroom after holding it all day because they couldn’t go to the bathroom where they didn’t feel safe. These are little kids! Don’t put adult stuff on little kids and make them suffer.
I also though the description of the “check your privilege” checklist in the school hallway (in a school the author’s son decided not to attend) was jaw-dropping. Talk about seeding division and sense of “otherness” in kids at a time when they are struggling with identity and trying to find their place in the world. I agree privilege needs to be discussed but shoving it in preteen/teenagers’ faces like that? That is 100% about the adults and 0% about what is really good for children.
I really agreed with the son’s assessment at the end of the article: school isn’t supposed to be about programming kids how to think. Yes, it’s important to talk about real un-whitewashed history, privilege, discrimination, slavery, institutional racism, etc. If it’s factual. When it steps from factual into opinion and some school decides they know better than parents about the moral values kids should hold, we might as well put prayer back into the schools because to me, there’s no difference. It’s all ideological indoctrination; people can just pick their poison. To me, it doesn’t belong in publicly-funded schools. I will take care of my child’s moral development; that’s my responsibility as a parent. I expect schools to leave that to me. My son needs to learn how to read, write, do math and understand science and history. Some context is okay but the ideological programming is inappropriate and unneeded.
Anon
This comment is wonderful.
Anon
Woohoo!
Anokha
It’s not just NY. We live in SF and also had to go through preschool interviews with our then 2.5 year old. It’s bananas.
Anonymous
I’m really over reading about the woes of privileged people navigating the NYC school system. This isn’t a surprise. You are actively choosing to live there. There are plenty of suburbs where you can have a reasonable commute and just sign your kid up for the local public kindergarten.
Anon09er
Do you consider over an hour each way a reasonable commute? How’s the air up there on your high horse?
Anonymous
He’s applying to schools that cost a fortune. Pre k in Jersey City is free, and public after care is $200 a month. Dude has loads of options.
Anonymous
Lol what? You do not have to move over an hour outside the city to have options.
Anonymous
Like it’s just really shocking to me to see someone right about the horror of rich parents looking down the social ladder at obesity and divorce. Newsflash y’all rich snobs get divorced and fat too.
There’s a lot to say on this topic and I have no interest in hearing this dude’s perspective.
Anon
And newsflash: plenty of middle class people cook dinner every night, go to the gym, and stay married. Their kids go to college and buy houses and get married.
Anon
Preach. +100
I couldn’t even get through the whole thing. I don’t care if this person has a point. This subculture is self inflicted and I seriously couldn’t care any less about it.
Anonymous
Yup. Like heyyyyu I went to public school and a great college and I have a good job but I’m fat so does that mean my life is a failure? No. No it does not.
Anon
I think one of the biggest problems with the story is that schools are clearly teaching kids what to think instead of how to think. That’s how you get adults parroting every progressive idea they hear instead of employing critical thinking skills to learn what they actually personally believe.
Anonymous
And I think you’re a tr011. Elite schools teach how to think. The adults you think of as parrots are people who have thought about things and decided apparently contrary to you.
Anon
Omg read the article before you name call. You might find that my point hits close to home. Not that it matters, but I’m on team Warren.
Anon
+1.
I couldn’t even hate – read it, it was so bad.
Anonymous
I guess that you can short-circuit all this by wearing your MAGA hat to the preschool intake interview?
In my city, there are a million sweet preschools run by churches who have no interest in the rat race. There are some posh ones, but most are pretty basic and aren’t competitive to get into.
Anonymous
Where I live the sweet church preschools also all run from 9 AM – 3 PM. Would LOVE to send my kid to one of those but it’s totally incompatible with two full time working parents. Spending a college tuition amount of money on preschool in our family is not driven by a desire to get our kids some advantage, just by a desire to get true full day coverage.
Anonymous
I never thought I’d be on Team Homeschooling, but I would just want to rather than do what is in the article re preschools. But with 2 kids, and $100K, couldn’t I hire a very good tutor and just let them do a lot more creative play and art and museum trips?
Anonymous
This is just so out of touch. Hardly any kids in NYC are doing this. The ones that are aren’t doing it for educational reasons they’re doing it for social caché.
anon
Yes, you could. There was another article recently about the market for nannies in Silicon Valley, and how certain parents were paying incredibly high salaries for “nannies” with masters degrees in child education to develop and implement a full preschool curriculum for their young children.
anon
G*d, I am so glad I live in flyover country. This lifestyle sounds miserable.
Anonymous
I live in flyover country. I know of kids homeschooling so they can devote more time to their sports careers (and these kids are elementary school age). And people going to Kumon 3x/week (so all they do is school and Kumon).
Crazy parents be everywhere.
Anon
Crazy parents are everywhere, but there’s much more of a competitive preschool culture in NYC than in the Midwest, especially if you’re talking about a smaller Midwestern city (ie, not Chicago). My SIL lives in NYC, I live in flyover country, trust me, the culture is world’s apart, even if there are crazy parents everywhere.
anon
“Only New York would force me to wake up early one Saturday morning in February, put on my parka and wool hat, and walk half a mile in the predawn darkness to register our son, then just 17 months old, for nursery school.”
^ New York didn’t “force” him to do any of this. I live in NYC and have two preschoolers. We applied to three preschools in our neighborhood. None required sleeping outside or interviews. They are not competitive to get into. They are lovely schools filled with lovely children, including mine.
Anon
YES. So much this.
Anon
Another good article touching on similar themes (including teaching kids WHAT to think instead of how to): https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/15/us/california-ethnic-studies.html
anon
I think he could have dropped the long initial section about applying to preschools, which is a story that’s already been written a number of time. The more interesting piece is about how his idealism about public school foundered on the rocks of actual experience (and not entirely for the reasons you’d expect).
Anonymous
We go to my city’s public schools and it is a struggle some days to say anything nice about it. But I don’t have $ for private school tuition or the ability to go somewhere where I’d have to drive across the city and back 2x/day.
anon
Surprised that no one has mentioned this yet, but I looked up the author and he’s a second generation Yale legacy, with Stanford professor parents and a Congressman grandfather. He’s obviously not representative of Americans, or even New Yorkers for that matter.
Anonymous
That you could know this suggests that he was in a Vows writeup in the NYT. Those people =/= the rest of us.
Anon
Eh, my parents, sibling, cousins and me all had our marriage announcements in the NYT (just the shorter form announcement, not the feature-length column where they send a reporter to the wedding – you have to have a really interesting story or be a bold-faced name for that). We all went to Ivy-type schools and have good careers but none of us are high society in the slightest and quite a few of us are in academia, which doesn’t pay all that well. I earn significantly less money than a lot of the people who post here, my salary is nothing like Big Law. I don’t think having your wedding announcement in the Times automatically equates with a fancy lifestyle.
Anon
I knew that about him. The fact that he sniffles and cries about the trials of American “meritocracy” is… nauseating.
Anonymous
Local floral shop recommendations that don’t charge an arm and a leg ($20!) for delivery? I live in the Midwest and there is a grocery chain here that has great flowers and $6 local delivery. Looking for something similar in:
Denver CO
Portland OR
Columbia SC
And Boston MA
Any ideas?
Anonymous
Nope. Not a thing.
Anon
Prime Now for delivery of Whole Foods flowers.
Maudie Atkinson
Blossom Shop in Columbia will deliver (local area, in-town Columbia) for $12.50.
Trixie
Busy Bee Florist in Newton–near Boston–does a great job with flowers, and is more affordable than most florists. You can be specific as to the arrangement, and be careful about the vases–some are too cute.
anon
Cherry Blossoms Florist in Westminster, CO does a very nice job, with delivery ranging $13-16ish. But as someone who used to work in at small florist, my recommendation would be to just search for a florist shop near the delivery destination. Any shop will be happy to take your order, but will take out fees for transfer to closer shops / farther delivery from the total paid, leaving less for the actual flowers. You’re generally going to get more and better flowers for the same money from a closer shop.
Anon Lawyer
I use Broadway Floral in Portland, Oregon. If you don’t need immediate delivery, it’s pretty cheap.
Katherine Vigneras
My trick for getting GOOD flowers, in cities where I don’t know anyone: call a local church and ask the church ladies. They see all the wedding and funeral flowers and know what’s up.
aBr
Never fails. Look on the Knot or Wedding Wire for highly rated florist in each area. See if they do normal floral deliveries. Tell them how much you want to spend and leave it to them on the arrangements. This is my go to for $50-80 all in floral arrangements.
Ginjury
Ladies, what are you wearing to the office these days? It’s finally getting cold here and I’m feeling super 2010 in my fitted sweater and slim ankle pants. Tips for modernizing my work wardrobe? It seems like looser silhouettes are definitely more current, but I struggle to translate that to fall/winter business casual, especially since I’m on the shorter, chubbier, curvier side so it feels like that look can easily read sloppy. Any suggestions for where to look for inspiration?
Housecounsel
I bet your slim ankle pants and fitted sweater look professional and not 2010. But yes, I am seeing looser silhouettes on the bottom. Can you pair your fitted sweaters with some gaucho-style or wide-leg pants, cinched at the waist so you aren’t drowning in fabric?
anonymous
Ff you are looking for looser silhouettes, you could try boot cut or flared dress pants with your fitted sweater. I think those look best with a bit of a heel.
Cap Hill Style just posted an outfit example yesterday and there was a link to an IG account called chickworkchick.
anon
It’s currently still the temperature of the surface of the sun where I live, but once it cools off, I’m planning to wear sloan pants, turtleneck sweaters, jcrew swackets and rothy’s loafers. It’s a classic look, imo. I’m classic type person. I’m also petite and look sloppy in baggy stuff. I’d rather look non-sloppy than trendy though.
Anonymous
Any good spots for dinner before a show at 7:30 at the Lincoln center? In a dream, something vegan friendly?
Anonymous
Or Marmite!
NYCer
My go to is Bar Boulud, but I wouldn’t say it’s particularly vegan friendly.
Anon
To the person that asked about for jewelry basics yday- also check out Vrai and Oro and AuRate. Both are simple fine jewelry brands but have a little bit of personality that makes it a joy to wear their stuff.
Cb
On this – I went to a silversmithing workshop recently and they had some absolutely gorgeous things at reasonable prices. I’m always a bit hesitant on Etsy but I’d feel confident working with the silversmith for something.
no
Thank you! and everyone else who commented yesterday! These sites are exactly what I was looking for.
Anon Traveler
Has anyone had any luck carrying on the Lo & Sons OMG on United as a personal item? The measurements are slightly big than those listed but i figured since it is soft-sided and I don’t plan on overpacking it it would fit fine under the seat?
Anon
I don’t have that bag but I’ve taken enormous totes as my personal item. I didn’t even know there were official size requirements. I can’t imagine you’re going to have a problem unless it doesn’t fit under your seat and you demand overhead bin space for two bags – that’s where the flight attendants will get involved.
HSAL
Ha, I have the same question about the Rowledge. It’s an inch or so wider than their dimensions.
Anon.
The Rowledge has been my personal item on 10 United flights in the last 2 months. Never had even a sideways glance. It fits just fine under the seat.
T
I take my OG all the time, you’re fine as long as it can fit under the seat.
Anonymous
Uh I regularly take the OG as my personal item and it never occurred to me to second guess that decision.
Anonymous
I have a Lo and Sons OG and I carry it onto planes all the time, United included. If it’s not overpacked it fits just fine under the seat in front of me – upright, I will add, so it doesn’t spill things all over when I try to get something out. It’s my go-to bag for flying. That and my rollaboard suitcase and I never have to check a bag, unless I’m going to be gone for a week or something.
Nylon girl
Hi! I carry the OMG on every United flight & put under seat, fits under every seat regardless of aircraft.
Anon Traveler
amazing, thank you!
Is it Friday yet?
I have without issue.
RR
I’ve taken the Lo & Sons OG on flights on United, Delta, and American as a personal item. I’ve never had an issue–either carrying it on or fitting it under the seat.
Aggie
I travel with the larger OG and a purse routinely on United. Both fit comfortably under the seat, even on regional jets.
Anonymous
I think the size matters more for rigid hard-shell wheelies vs something that you can squish under the seat (where my OG lives). Frequent flyer. Sometimes my smallest-size Away bag has to get gate-checked but never the OG.
Anonymous
I took an OG as my personal item on United yesterday. It fits under the seat.
Cb
I had an intake with my workplace counselling service today and the waitlist is 5 months long! Any recommendations for CBT and mindfulness apps or workbooks for stress? I’m functional but just feel like I’m wound up like a top.
Anonymous
Can you seek counseling outside your workplace?
Junior Associate
Hello, I was there six months ago! The Anxiety and Phobia Workbook (Bourne) has been recommended here a few times, and contain a few chapters on mindfulness and unwinding tactics that I’ve found helpful.
Anonymous
Do you have to use workplace counseling? Can you see a therapist outside that system?
Cb
I can, but NHS waitlists are even longer and private is really, really expensive. I get 5 free visits through workplace counselling (and it’s directly opposite my building) so as things aren’t urgent, I’d like to give this a go.
Anonymous
1. Headspace app
2. Massage therapy
3. Exercise – walking, yoga, anything to help release the physical tension
4. Nature bathing – get yourself outside in nature. Just sit in the park and watch the trees for 15 mins at lunch
5. Are you in the UK? Try mind dot org dot uk for help in finding resources available to you.
Anon
Dartnouth college health service has online mindfulness mp3s that I quite liked. I think Berkeley had something similar. Also, yoga (Down Dog is a great app for 10 minutes every morning).
lsw
So tough. Are there any teletherapy services you can take advantage of in the meantime?
Anon
palousemindfulness dot com has a free online stress class.
eertmeert
I love Glenn Harrold for relaxing meditation. His British accent is extra soothing. I downloaded his app, which has a variety of 20 – 60 minute guided meditations. I love Complete Relaxation, Mindfulness fo rSelf-Healing, Mindfulness for Relaxation, Beach Meditation, and more.
These helped me through some really anxious, strained times in my life. I used them to go to sleep, but also to relax and unwind. Highly recommend.
Coach Laura
For a good workbook, try “Retrain your Brain: Cognitive Behavioral Therapy in 7 Weeks: A Workbook for Managing Depression and Anxiety” by Seth Gillihan. I know you’re in UK so I didn’t check Amazon UK for availability but it’s on Kindle or you might be able to get it on your iPad via their reading app.
Anon
Here is a (hopefully) fun one. I’ve been for ideas about what is cool and hip (of which I am neither) for entertainment at parties. My mom is on the planning committee for a special Olympics banquet. Past ideas that have gone over well are a photo booth, smores bar/station, and balloon artist. Karaoke also happened which I was informed was loved by some attendees and loathed by others. There will be a dance with a DJ there, so the organizers are looking for activities in which guests can still mingle while participating (i.e. not something like a comedian where everyone needs to sit and pay attention). The only thing I can think of is a magician but not doing a stage show, more like walking around doing tricks for small groups. Any ideas?
anon
Live painter (painting the event), caricature artist for take home pictures of attendees, ice cream sundae bars, candy cars, hot chocolate bars
Anon
Will many participants in the special olympics be there as guests, or is this a donor only function? The past ideas you mention seem geared towards children so I’m not sure what you’re looking for. A banquet seems kind of out of sorts with the…to put it lightly, mild carnival you’re describing.
Anon
Sorry, this is for athletes and coaches.
Senior Attorney
We had a walking-around magician at my wedding reception and it was a big hit. Also I am doing a banquet now where we are getting celeb impersonators to mingle with the crowd. (It’s a 100th anniversary so we have a celeb from each of the past 10 decades. My fave is Jack Nicholson from the 1970s!)
anon
Ambient circus / variety performers – depending on the space: aerialist, contortionist, stilt walker, juggler, fire breathers, etc. Generally those performers have a range of acts appropriate for a variety of ages and events. You can google circus performers in your area, or contact local circus / aerial schools and ask if they have performers.
Anon
I’m trying to decide between NYU, Columbia, Chicago, Stanford, and U Penn for a master’s program. Assuming tuition and employment prospects are non issues (current employer is sponsoring), which would you choose? Any you would you advise against? For context I haven’t been to any of the cities as I don’t live in the US, so I would be landing in very foreign territory. Fwiw, I’m single, mid 30s, am used to cities and public transport and enjoy walking around, musicals, concerts, parks, exercise (jogging, yoga), travelling arounf and good food, and am not a big fan of partying. Budget outside of tuition is ~$4000/month including rent (willing to live on campus as long as I have my own bathroom), safety would be a priority. I’ve driven all of 20 hours total in my life if that’s relevant. Thanks in advance!
Anonymous
NYU.
Anon
Four of those schools are in cities, but Stanford is not. Palo Alto is 35 miles south of San Francisco, and extremely suburban with terrible public transportation options. If you live on campus, eat at campus restaurants/dining halls, and your entire social circle is on campus, you may not need a car, but if you want to live a more “adult” lifestyle (including shopping for groceries off-campus), life is going to be very difficult without a car. I’m also not sure Palo Alto would fit your lifestyle even if you had a car. It’s mostly undergrads and families – there isn’t the single 30-something professional scene that you’d have in NYC, Philly or Chicago.
(My husband went to Stanford for his PhD, I love the school and actually loved living in Palo Alto too except for the very high cost, I just think it’s a really poor fit for your lifestyle.)
blueberries
I agree that a city may be a better fit, but I disagree on the necessity of a car for Stanford students. I live in Palo Alto and rarely drive—campus and Palo Alto are extremely bike friendly.
Access to a rental car or Zipcar for the occasional hike would be sufficient. From campus, it’s easy to bike to the Dish and not that far for a skilled cyclist to bike to Arastradero, so you don’t even need a car for every hike.
I love Palo Alto.
Anonymous
I also think with schools, the Q is “where is it better to be FROM ” instead of “where is it better to be AT.” A degree is forever. Your time there is limited, even if you don’t love the city/town/climate.
Anon
Palo Alto is very doable with Caltrain, biking, walking, and Zipcars. It’s also a very pleasant place for exercising/outdoor opportunities and it feels safe.
Anonymous
Um, what program?
Anon
(Corporate) law. Not JD.
Anon
(Utterly useless in the US job market, I’m well aware.)
Anon
Are you doing an LLM? If so, I would highly consider NYU. It is a huge LLM program, so you will have a decent sized cohort of classmates who are specifically there for the LLM, has lots of international law and corporate classes, and has many LLM alumni who return to their home country. I don’t know as much about the other schools’ LLM programs, but my sense is that they are small and you might have a harder time establishing friends/networking.
Anon
I don’t know, I actually attended a smaller graduate program specifically because it was smaller and I think that probably helped making friends. We were in general a closer group.
anon
I’d do NYU for that.
PineapplePrincess
I’m a UPenn Law grad. I would HIGHLY recommend the law school there even if not for JD. The class size is small and the personality of the school is amazingly friendly and not at all competitive. It’s very easy to take classes in other schools at the University if you have interest in business, etc. Also that budget will go way further in Philly than in NYC for living, social activities, travel, etc. No car necessary. Penn every day of the week, without hesitation.
Anon
Unless the master’s is on a very weird schedule, you haven’t been accepted yet. Apply and get a decision first.
Access to yoga is not an issue. Your issue is how good the school is *in the particular area* that you are studying.
Anon OP
You’re right! They are all within the top 10 in my field and are more or less of equal prestige for internal purposes (which is how I will be using it – it’s more of a stepping stone for future growth). It’s just that my sponsor has a weird rule that you can’t apply to more than 2 programs of the 5 listed, so I’m trying to narrow down the choices before I apply.
Anonymous
In that case, I say Columbia and NYU given your preferred lifestyle and what the poster above said about Palo Alto (I have never been to Stanford). New York’s a great city to live in for grad school (full disclosure, I went to NYU). You really can’t go wrong with either, though I think NYU is in a more fun part of the city.
Anon
In that case, I would first consider what is important to you and try to research those items and get a feel for the schools. Is it important that the school have many international students? then NYU. Is there a particular student group you want to get involved with? search the schools websites and consider reaching out to a current student.
Is the school experience less important, since you already have job lined up, and you just want to have a US experience? What does that mean to you? NYU is in the heart of NYC. That is a very different experience from Stanford, which is basically is suburban.
Anonymous
Is the rule that you can’t apply for more than 2, or they will only pay application fees for 2? If the latter, I would apply to more and just pay the fees out of pocket.
Anonymous
How do you feel about winter? [matters especially for Chicago]
Are you coming from / likely to work in Asia [I’d go to Stanford then]
Otherwise, I see the world as Columbia > NYU (but if finance: Penn/Columbia > NYC); Chicago is not important to my life geography (but may be most important if you are coming from Canada and not afraid of windy cold weather); Stanford > all others if you will be coming from anywhere touching the Pacific.
hi hi hi
I went to undergrad at Columbia and graduate school at UChicago. I wish I were double Columbia.
Anon
This really depends on your field. Each school is better than the others in some fields, and worse in others. Also, it’s September. Unless this is some weird program, you haven’t actually been admitted yet. Wait to see where you get in and then decide.
anne-on
Without knowing the program this is difficult, but generally, why wouldn’t you prioritize the Ivies over the others? So Columbia, UPenn, and if you want to work west coast, Stanford over the others? Columbia>NYU if you want to be in NY and Chicago not at all unless you’re very ok with the winters.
SF Anon
If you’re talking about an LLM, then NYU, hands down. If you’re taking about some other grad program where Columbia might be better academically, then Columbia. I’ve lived in NYC, Philly, and SF, and based on what you said about your age and the things you like, I’d pick NYC hands down. I lived in Philly for two years as a mid-30s single woman and was miserable. It’s a very young city where most single people are in their early 20’s, and it’s not very cosmopolitan. I met almost zero people from other countries (the sole exception being people at Penn, so maybe it would be better for you?). Chicago is a great city but unless you’re used to frigid weather the cold will be a shock. And as others noted, Stanford is actually in the suburbs, over 30 minutes from SF. You may need a car to get around. Whereas NYC is… NYC. It’s an amazing city. Everyone should live there once.
Coach Laura
You should also look into housing options if doing NYC. I believe both NYU and Columbia have graduate-level housing provided but I’m not 100% sure. Because finding and paying for housing might be stressful otherwise.
anon
Got my peri0d this morning and we are trying. Not only is it disappointing but since being off hormonal BC, peri0ds are way worse than they used to be for me. Combine that with hating my job and BLAHHHH. Thinking I deserve to treat myself, so doing some shopping. So if you are having a rough day or rough start to the week, too, happy pity party to us both and hugs :)
Panda Bear
Ugh, commiseration and wishing you the best!
Anon
I’ve been there more times than I’d like to think about, and I know that it’s rough. Hugs.
Anon
It’s the worst, I’m on month 4 of trying. Every month it’s a punch to the gut that not only are you not pregnant, but now you get to have cramps and a period! Yay!
My periods have been weird… 2 days of spotting starting on day 21 of my cycle, then 3 days of nothing and then 5 days of a period, so bizarre. I’ve been on hormonal BC for about 20 years, but I was pretty regular at 28 days (I think) before BC
OP anon
OP here. Big hugs to you too, dear.
I am never late (either early or on time) and this month was 2 days late and started to get a little bit hopeful, but no dice. I’ve got the full suite of cramps, headaches, nausea… and just general rage at my all-male office. I think pizza is called for tonight, ha!
Anonanonanon
Some great advice I got was to pick a goal- such as an expensive flight to visit a friend across the country- and put aside a set amount of money every month you got your period while trying. After a year my plan was to visit a friend, but 9 months in I got pregnant and ended up having a decent chunk of savings for maternity clothes :)
Hang in there!
Anon
Drink some wine! That was my commiseration whenever I got my period. Boo – not pregnant, but yay – can now drink!
Coach Laura
It may have been my imagination but I think red wine works the best for cramps. Get some good wine!
Anon
Hugs to you.
Anon
So #millenialretirementplan is trending on Twitter this morning (not sure why). Reading it briefly, 99% of commenters are saying things along the lines of — I’ll never be able to retire, I’ll leave huge debt to my next of kin, etc. I’m assuming these are young millennials? Out of curiosity though – how many people here (millennial or not) feel they’ll never be able to retire or it’ll be a tough time?
Z
I’m fortunate enough that I make a good salary where I’m able to live, save for retirement, and pay my loans. I also plan on being in a DINK marriage, so I won’t have to worry about the money involved with kids.
I am extremely concerned that we’ll be in a climate crisis when it’s my time to retire in 40ish years, and everyone will have to fight for survival and not be able to actually “retire.”
Anon
That sounds — dramatic . . . . What does it even mean?? Places like India already have climate and related infrastructure problems. That means regular people deal with blackouts and water outages. Rich people live well as they have generators upon generators to keep their ACs running in 115 degree heat and have private wells for water. How comfortably people live depends on $$$ – yet they all retire, some more comfortably than others.
Anon
It sounds dramatic but it is obviously of great concern as the effects of climate change seem to be happening much faster than the middle of the road scientific predictions. You seem to assume that climate and infrastructure problems will occur in a nice country specific bubble. One of the big predicted issues is political instability due to lack of resources (talking major migrations of people across borders because a region can’t grow food) which may make the economy extremely volatile.
I think it’s extremely prudent to keep this in mind. Things change fast – 20 yrs ago we were living in a mostly optimistic economic boom time and now we live in a country with extreme social unrest, mass shootings everyday, coddled neo-Nazis, borderline pro-fascist regime, and politicians who flip the finger at even the appearance of democracy. 40 yrs from now you don’t know what life will look like.
SFAttorney
You are right. The effects of climate change don’t stop at borders. It is likely that there will be increased food insecurity, displaced people, and unstable governments.
Anonymous
This is factually untrue (US 20 years ago vs. today).
Anon
I generally love my millennial colleagues but this trope they all seem to believe that every generation before them, especially the boomers, had it super easy is ridiculous.
Ps im gen x, not a boomer.
Anon
I’m 34, so old millennial. I’d probably be more worried about it if I didn’t have a spouse who has a job he can’t be laid off from and from which he doesn’t plan to retire until 75+. I expect to retire by 65, possibly sooner, but I don’t think I’d be as confident in that choice if my husband didn’t intend to work well past that age. It’s really really important to me not to be a financial burden to our children, and I hope to have a minimum of $3M in our combined retirement savings before I retire. I think we’re on track to do that by 65. My parents are still working at 70 and 72, despite having a $5M+ net worth, so it isn’t only a millennial thing (they do enjoy their jobs and would quit if they were miserable, but I also think they feel like $5M isn’t enough to guarantee they won’t be a burden to their kids).
Anonymous
And what happens if at 62 he gets sick?
nona
+1 – you can plan to work until whatever age, but sometimes life doesn’t let you. And I’d be really skeptical of a “job you can’t get laid off from” – I wouldn’t expect most jobs (or economies) to look the same in 10-20-30 years, so I think that’s kind of dangerous mentality to lock yourself into.
Anon
I assume she means government. But if private sector – yeah – doesn’t matter how smooth it is or how much anyone loves you, you can be pushed out at 55 like anyone else.
Anon
He’s a tenured professor at an elite university. He could be fired for cause or the university could go bankrupt and shut down completely (although if this happens, I think the US and global economy would be so disrupted that most of us probably wouldn’t have jobs), but both of those scenarios are much less likely to happen than a regular old layoff at a for-profit company. He can’t get laid off in the “we’re going through a downturn, the company will be fine but we’re pink-slipping 50 perfectly competent employees” sense, which many people (including me) have or will experience at some point.
anon
I agree that you can’t assume your health will allow you to work indefinitely, but if it’s a gov’t job (like mine) it’s safe to assume that you will never be let go. I have seen some of the most incompetent people ever at my jobs (i’ve worked in both fed and state gov’t) and NO ONE gets fired. No one.
Anon
Well, he could get sick at 52 too. There are obviously no guarantees in life, and as I said I won’t even contemplate retirement until we have several million in savings (which I think is more than most people have when they retire, regardless of age). But the fact that he expects to keep working longer is something that makes me feel more comfortable about retiring at 65, because we will likely have his income for quite a few years beyond when I stop earning income. We also have life and long-term disability insurance.
AnonInHouse
Similar situation, right down to the 70+ yr old parents still working. I’m an old millennial at 37, husband is early 40s gen X, and we expect to be able to retire in our 60s. My husband has a job which will pay a large pension in retirement (mid-5 figures annually; military), so we’re counting on that as a substantial part of our retirement planning. Our retirement planning doesn’t take into account any social security at all.
Anon
Our organization is stuck with all these old people that have plenty to retire and live on, but continue to work (and not hard). I wish they would retire and get out of the way for some of us.
Ellen
I totally disagree with your comment about “old people that have plenty to retire and live on, but continue to work (and not hard).”
In my firm, other then me, all of the partners are over 60, some alot more, but they still work, and they do so b/c they love the law and the fact that they are making a difference (and earning money for the firm and the associates and support staff who owe their jobs to the partners who “bring home the bacon”.
Instead of looking at the senior partners as you do, think of yourself when you are a few years older. Will you be productive, or lazy–based on what you say, I would bet you may fall into the latter situeation. My manageing partner is 78 years old, but he is married to a woman over 40 years younger then him, and it is because he is young at heart. He loves the way I do my job, and he is not a horndog with me, b/c his wife gives him all of the $ex he wants, and he has a young son that is heading off to school every day now. Yes he had a second wife earlier, but was divorced many years ago.
The other partners also take an interest in me b/c I am to become the manageing partner in a few years and their retirement income will depend on me keeping the cleints happy, which I fully intend to do.
Since we will all become old and retire, we will have to plan for the future. You will get your chance, if not now where you are, then just go somewhere else if they will have you. Good luck to you! YAY!
However
Anonymous
Nice that these kids don’t understand how debt works. You can’t leave it to people. Yes, it reduces your net estate. But dying insolvent isn’t the worst thing.
Anon
Exactly.
emeralds
Unless your parents are co-signors on a private student loan, and the loan company comes after your estate.
Anonymous
How many parents do this? I am all about kids being OK to take on debt for needed schooling, but not about parental loans. To me, that would say “you can’t afford this.” But is it really an expectation of parents these days?
I went to state U and worked/scholarship/parental contributioned it, but I would have felt sick if my parents had also had to borrow for that. I paid for a second and third degree with loans.
Kids these days seem to be saddled with debt when they graduate — I can’t imagine that they’d also be expected to co-sign their kids’ loans (while their personal loans may take 30 years to pay off).
Ugh. There has got to be a breaking point. This may be it.
Anon
I mean it’s up to each family, but yeah I work with parents who are taking on the debt. These are people who are age 60+ themselves — so they don’t have school debt but they are trying to solidify their own retirements, pay of their homes before retirement plus paying off their kids’ college. I just learned this was a think recently. In my family it was clear that my debt was mine alone. Yet I’m talking to a 60 year old lawyer at work the other day and he says something about how he’s got 3 tuition bills right now (and this isn’t biglaw, this is government). I’m confused as I was like oh — I thought kid #1 and #2 were done and just kid #3 is at college? And he says — well they’re done but the loan payments don’t go away. So yeah some people do this . . . . IDK if our generation will — just depends on when they pay off their own loans. Sure if you get yours paid off in your 30s and have 2 decades to save for retirement aggressively, then maybe in your 50s you can consider taking on college/med/law debt for your kids. But if you yourself are on the 30 year plan and can’t expedite payment and don’t finish off yours until 55, are you really going to take on more debt at the point for your kid?? Time will tell.
emeralds
@Anonymous, from my experience (I work in higher ed and look at aid awards regularly, but I do not have actual numbers to back up my anecdata) it’s not super common, but it’s not THAT uncommon either. As demonstrated by the conversation about NYC schooling above, there are a lot of class and cultural factors intersecting around educational choices. So while you or I could see “needs a parent to co-sign on a private loan” as the red line for “you cannot afford this school,” many families are making a different calculation.
And yes this is all hugely problematic.
Anon
I don’t think this is as uncommon as you think. My parents took out a loan for my study abroad summer– I did not know they were doing this at the time or ask them to do this. I went to a state school on a full ride (tuition + housing + living stipend). My parents had always hyped up doing a study abroad trip and had told me that if I took the scholarship instead of going to a more prestigious school, they would pay for the study abroad. (My parents actually met on a study abroad trip, which is part of why they thought this was important.) Well, as it turns out, it was the middle of the recession, and they couldn’t pay for it, so they took out a loan.
I have heard of other friend’s parents doing this at state schools especially– the parents had always planned on paying for college at State U for their kids and weren’t able to for some reason, so they took out loans so their kid could go. These are in situations where the alternative would have been for the kid not to go to college at all– not where the choice was between an Ivy or somewhere cheaper.
Anon
Unless this has changed a lot since I was in college in the early 2000s, it is not unusual for your financial aid package to include parent loans. If the parents haven’t saved enough to cover the expected family contribution, it is how they are forced to contribute.
Anonymous
I wish the CFTC would weigh in on this — there is no mathematical reason that parents should be doing this. Especially now that parents are older, closer to retirement age, with less likelihood of paying these (presumably non-discharable) debts, all for a degree they won’t benefit from. It is financially abusive to expect parents to do this.
Borrowing should only be done in the name of the person getting the degree, be on their credit, etc. Unlike other loans, student debt isn’t dischargeable.
Maudie Atkinson
I suspect they realize this and are kidding.
anon
At 39, I’m on the Gen X/millennial cusp, and I think I’ll be OK. I’ve held stable jobs with good retirement plans and DH & I save and invest fairly aggressively. I’m also sticking it out in a fairly intense job now in order to keep building that nest egg and hope to take a less demanding job in 10-15 years. But, we’ll see. Nothing is certain, but I do feel bad for the current crop of newer workers that are dealing with establishing stability a gig economy.
Caveat: While I realize we’re in a much different economic situation now than 10-15-20 years ago, I also think people sometimes shoot themselves in the foot by hopping from job-to-job when they don’t *have* to. Part of the reason why I feel like I’m on solid footing is because I stuck it out during some rocky times and that stability is paying off as I head into middle age.
Anon
On your caveat, I feel like you’re being purposefully obtuse. Millenials aren’t hopping job to job for no reason. They are changing jobs because of lack of benefits, being laid off, refusal of companies to promote from within, etc. A large percentage of millenials are stuck in the gig/contractor economy because companies don’t want to carry the burden of benefit costs. Companies have no loyalty, and millenials have figured that out – you apparently adopted your parent’s generation on “stay in your lane and you will be rewarded” – that is simply not true anymore. I’m happy for you that you’ve had career stability, but you are an outlier – that simply isn’t the case for a lot of people.
Anonymous
Early 40s here–how is the idea that companies have no loyalty new? Can one of these millennial explain to me how this is different from what ALL THE OTHER GENERATIONS BEFORE YOU FACED AND WORKED THROUGH?? Young employees don’t really have much value. You need to stick it out, and maybe stick with a job that isn’t exactly what you want to do, or pays less than what you think you are worth. That is how you find financial stability–not by hopping around every single time your boss annoys you. And all of those student loans? NO ONE FORCED YOU TO TAKE THEM OUT. That was a choice, and frankly, a choice with some pretty serious consequences. I am maxed out with hearing millennial complain about their student loan payments. Y’all should have thought of that, BEFORE YOU SIGNED ON TO TAKE ON THAT LEVEL OF DEBT.
Anon
I’ll preface this with saying… I respect milennials and think they get a bad wrap. BUT as a manager, I have noticed that millenials do expect more frequent job promotions. And a lot of times, I want to give it to them, but it just can’t happen for Reasons. (We don’t have the budget, it doesn’t fit in our org structure, etc.) So they bounce. It’s not a bad thing. It just is. And I work in a place with full benefits, almost no contractors and generous retirement plans.
aNON
Lol triggered much?
1) neither of the two posts above yours mentioned student loans – you went on a weird rant there to the point I can tell a lot about you with just this one post
2) youth and value to a business are not completely correlated and shouldn’t be
3) sticking with a job that doesn’t pay your worth or is not in line with career goals is …just the most terrible advice ever. You are so pro-corporation I feel bad for how much you’ve been brainwashed. The fastest way to stability is earning as much money as you can because there is no loyalty.
In other words, GIRL BYE
Anon
And done what? Not gone to college?
I’m 34. When I was deciding between colleges, all of my options (public and private) would have ended up costing the same, although the tuition vs financial aid packages looked different on the surface. The only way not to take on a lot of debt was to not go to college.
I ended up living with a relative (cheap but not free) while attending a private university that offered me a large scholarship, working every semester and full time in the summer. Cost of state school + room and board there would have been the same. My loans were around 60k on graduation, and I think I got off easy. But paying them back on my first-job salary of $29k was painful. The job required my college degree, and I stayed there for several years and got promoted twice before moving on.
My older coworkers tell me that by working just as much as I did in college, they were able to bridge the gap between scholarships, tuition and cost of living and graduate debt free (similarly ranked private schools).
emeralds
Wow. Really don’t know how to respond to this, other than to point out that this is an amazingly surface-level take on a very complicated and consequential issue. I hope that you are able to develop some nuance around this–maybe read like, one article from one of the many economists talking about some of the generational differences we’re working with.
Said as a millennial who was privileged enough to 1) have parents who saved the cost of attendance at my in-state flagship, and 2) had parents who were wise enough around financial literacy to sit me down and have the realest conversation my 17-year-old self had ever had about money and the implications student loan debt would have for my future. I am grateful for those two things every single day, but to act like that’s an achievable standard to hold the vast majority of Americans to is…improbable.
Anon
You can’t “stick it out” because people aren’t retiring. You have to job hop for any advancement.
And me not being able to afford buying a house, a new car, or have children due to student loan payments is not complaining. It’s reality. And it’s me being responsible to not do any of those things when I have giant student loan payments.
Anonymous
Right. About that. You realize the cost of tuition has risen dramatically, right? Let’s take my state’s flagship institution, UNC, as an example. They helpfully list their tuition every year from 1947 to 2017 on their website (https://blogs.lib.unc.edu/uarms/index.php/2017/03/annual-tuition-and-fees-at-unc-1947-2017/) In 1971, the year my parents started college, tuition for an instate resident was $225, plus $177 in mandatory fees, or $492 total. For the year. Plugging that into an inflation calculator tells you that’s the equivalent of $2,539.65 in 2017 dollars. Minimum wage in 1971 was $1.60, so you needed to work 307.5 hours to coverage cost of tuition (easily doable with a full-time job in a summer). Compare to 2003, when I started college. Tuition for an instate resident was 2,955, plus $1,117 ($4,072). Minimum wage was $5.15 an hour, so you’d need to work 775.6 hours at minimum wage to pay for that. In 2017, in-state tuition was $6,882, plus $1,953 in fees (total-$8835). Minimum wage is 7.25/hour, so you’d need to work 1,218.62 hours to cover tuition in 2017. And that’s the local public university. So yea, I get a little pissed off when people my parents’ generation (who are the ones who said “oh you have to go to college to get a good job”) say things like “don’t take on that level of debt” when they could go to the same college for 1/4 the price.
Anon
and to add on- As a woman, I have a limited window in procreation. If I want to pay student loan payments and have children, then I have to make more money. I don’t have a choice to sit around until someone decides I’m old enough to provide value that I’m already providing.
Worry about yourself
I thankfully didn’t need to take out loans, because my dad worked at a really good university I could go to. I was so, SO lucky, and had that not been the case I probably would have gone into debt like everyone else my age. Let’s remember that the people deciding where to go to school, what to study, whether to go at all, and figuring out how it’s all gonna be paid for are teenagers, and they’re making these decisions based on what their parents, teachers, guidance counselors, and other trusted adults are telling them. Adults need to be giving better guidance based on current realities, and we as a whole need to stop acting like a 4-year degree is the only path to gainful, lifelong employment.
Anonymous
Yes, to the poster above–an alternate option is to not go to college. Trade school is an option, a two year degree is an option, hairdresser school is an option. If you are academically inclined, there will be scholarships available. Or, get the four year degree but live at home. Or, make sure that the degree that you are getting will earn you enough to pay off those loans. No loans for a degree in art history.
And, to the question about a limited window for procreation–if you can’t afford to have kids, you don’t have kids. All of these things are choices and NO ONE is entitled to get everything that they want. All i hear from millennial is “I want it all, and I want it now, and if I don’t get it, I am just going to bounce to another job, or another degree, until i can get exactly what I think I am entitled to.” Please look up the meaning of the word “sacrifice” which all generations before you had to too.
Anon
I’m in my late 30s and you’re rather entitled, Anonymous at 11:54.
You are the last generation to have a chance. Even if you went to graduate school, you were established in your career before the 2008 recession hit. Even though college was expensive in the ’90s, people graduated with $10k or so in student loan debt – not $50k.
People who are a mere five years younger than you are got clobbered in a way you can never understand – graduating from law school or business school into the teeth of the recession, not being able to gain traction in employment via a series of temporary, hourly, or gig jobs, and astronomical student loans.
If you were ten years younger, you would be singing a different tune.
anon
“Yes, to the poster above–an alternate option is to not go to college. Trade school is an option, a two year degree is an option, hairdresser school is an option. If you are academically inclined, there will be scholarships available. Or, get the four year degree but live at home. Or, make sure that the degree that you are getting will earn you enough to pay off those loans. No loans for a degree in art history.”
This is just magical thinking. You know very well that not having a four year degree limits your options in life significantly. I doubt that the women on this board would be content (on many levels) with going to “hairdresser school” and career options that follow. You also assume without showing that living at home is an option for many or that there “will be scholarships available” to cover most tuition costs for the “academically inclined,” whatever that means. Quite honestly, you’re just a jerk who only hears what you want to hear.
Anon
To anon at 1:28 pm. It’s really clear that you think that those of us who are not privileged enough to have had a parent pay for school should curb our ambitions and stay in our station where we belong, instead of trying to rise to a higher level of achievement. We’re literally trying to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps and you are cutting the bootstraps and telling us to stop complaining about it.
Certainly plenty of people are happy as hairdressers or plumbers, but the decision to pursue those careers should be based on an individual’s abilities and preferences, not the socioeconomic status of their family of origin.
Anon
To anon at 1:28 p.m.- If I can bounce from job to job and get a $20k increase each time, why would I “sacrifice?” What is the upside?
“NO ONE is entitled to get everything they want.” Who is entitled just because they are seeking a better salary? They aren’t asking for you to give them free money. They are willing to work for it so they can pay for loans, houses, kids, whatever. That is not entitlement.
Anon
“And, to the question about a limited window for procreation–if you can’t afford to have kids, you don’t have kids. ”
That’s happening, and it will mean that we won’t be able to fund Social Security and Medicare going forward.
We need stable (financially and emotionally) people to have kids. It is a basic requirement of the modern life we have built – people who live until their old age, need a lot of care, and have expensive medical bills and long retirements.
I’m all on board with “Don’t go to your dream school and get a degree in Art History if you can’t afford it,” but my alternative is state school, working through school, taking some time off to save some money, online education, etc., not “Don’t ever go to college and don’t have kids, you entitled brat.” What the everloving f—.
Anon
If I stayed at my first job I would be making 20k less than I am now. There is no such thing as stability anymore.
Cat
Older millennial here. My biggest worry is family history of longevity. If I retire at 65, I run a real risk of needing 35 years’ worth of money.
Anonymous
Same here. The math of people living into their mid-90s is ugly. OTOH, my grandmother died at 94.5. The last .5 was very pricey (mini-strokes, hospital, stroke, skilled nursing facility). Prior to that, my mom paid for decades for a cleaning service, meals on wheels, and yard care and she and her husband had a paid-off house in a VLCOL area.
Em
I’m 33 and not confidant about our financial ability to retire based on what we currently have in retirement accounts and are currently contributing. That said, I have no desire to ever stop working (scale back or transition to something else, yes. Fully stop working, no), so I am not super stressed about it. The only debt we have is our mortgage ($170k and 25 years left on it) and about $5k on a zero interest credit card, so our debt isn’t a huge concern.
Panda Bear
Also an old millennial (36). I’m on track to retire at a reasonable age (65-ish). I would be much more worried if I was single, or had kids. As is, I’m married with no plans for children, and my (quite a bit older) partner is pretty financially secure. It kind of annoys me that to some extent I’m relying on a man financially, but here I am. I do worry about getting knocked off track should I have a long term job loss. And I’d be much further ahead if I wasn’t still paying off student loans. Overall, the situation could be better, but could much worse, so I’m grateful.
Anonome
There are very few ways debt can be passed on to your next of kin, so this sound like fear mongering more than anything else.
If they’re actually talking about having enough for elder care, most people won’t. It’s not feasible to save enough on an average middle-class salary to pay for that kind of care, even if you start scrimping fresh out of college. My in-laws worked for 35 years in well-paying pension jobs, and their huge pile of money was eaten by dementia care in less than three years. Organize your estate to ensure that your wishes are carried out in the event of your mental decline, and plan on needing Medicare.
anon
I’m 36 so older millennial. I absolutely feel like I won’t be able to retire completely. Hopefully I’ll be able to take a more “fun”, lower paying job, but I’ll probably still have to work. DH and I have decent salaries, but not biglaw salaries. We save for retirement (and 4 year old’s 529), have a general savings, and no school debt. But saving $100k+ (assuming house is paid off) per year that we’ll be retired? Probably not gonna happen.
Anonymous
I just don’t understand this attitude. It’s a fantasy that you’ll just be able to keep working until you die. You won’t.
Anon
Well, then she’ll deal. I don’t understand what the alternative is. It’s not like she’s saying “yeah, we travel to Europe four times a year…who needs retirement savings!” She IS saving as best she can, and she’s saying it’s not going to be able to save enough to fully quit. If she has to quit earlier than expected and her savings run out, then she’ll go on government assistance. All you can do is be frugal, save what you can, and hope for the best. What exactly are you proposing she do instead?
anonshmanon
If your house would be paid off, would you really need 100k or 8k/month? Is that assuming a lot of health care costs?
Anon
It is incredibly ridiculous and privileged to act like someone needs to save $100k for year of retirement in order to retire, especially when they have a paid off house. $100k is significantly more than the average US household income.
Anon
Who cares if it’s privileged? If I aspire to 100k/yr in retirement, that’s what I aspire to.
Anon
What if you live for 40 years after retiring? Unless you’re mega rich, I don’t see how that’s possible.
anonshmanon
I was not trying to be snarky, genuinely wondering whether you can share any particulars of how you arrived at this number. If I’m reading your post right, this is the savings goal for two people, but still curious.
anon at 10:42
Wow, I’m surprised my comment generated responses! I really have no basis on the 100k number, but I live in in an MCOL city with very high property taxes so I know we need more than the $35k per year the retirement calculators say we need. I want to still be able to do stuff in retirement and not just sit around my house.
I’m just trying to be realistic in my head about the fact that if I am physically and mentally able, I’ll probably have to keep working as long as possible to do the things I want to do.
Anon
We’re in the exact same boat and have the same attitude. It helps that both our sets of parents are past retirement age and still working, so we know 4 people who have done it this way. They’re still paying off their mortgages. We’ll just figure it out when time comes.
Anonymous
I don’t think I’ll never be able to retire, but I do assume I’m going to need a ton of money and likely never feel like I have “enough”because 1) I’m not counting on much from social security, 2) people are living far longer (my grandparents all died in their early 80s. Maybe I will, but I could also make it to 95), 3) healthcare costs are a massive question mark, and 4) because I’m an elder millennial, I’ve got pretty bad Great Recession PTSD and kind of just assume I’ll get screwed by another recession right about the time I want to retire.
Old Millennial
I’m 34 (old millennial), married, one kid and planning on another. Mortgage is only noteworthy debt.
We have $225k in retirement accounts. I’ve never adopted the “I’ll never retire” mentality but it does feel like we’re very far off. It’s so hard to know; things change. We are savings as best as we can, maxing out 401ks, investing retirement funds aggressively. We hired a financial planner this year and at least next to help make sure we’re on the right track and to make some sound decisions. I think we are doing the best we can, but the external validation is something I need for peace of mind. We’re also getting all of the right insurance in place – life, disability – because Things happen and you have to be prepared. I’m working an intense job to help build a reserve even in the face of expensive child care costs.
Still, I think at 22, or even 26, I would have said “I can never retire” but then I experienced life and realized yes, I can, I just need to be strategic and start planing now. I think some of this reaction from the younger end of my generation is just a lack of experience or critical thought. I was a mission driven employee of a non profit for my first 3 years out of school when 2009 hit. These topics were suddenly front of mind and I made some big decisions about my career path and overall approach to personal finances and adulthood in general.
Anon
225 at age 34 is a lot. I’m 5 years older than you and single so only 1 income — what I have in retirement at age 39 is 2.5x what I had at 34 — despite a 6 mo unemployment stint though then at 35 getting a job with a 8% match and of course it’s been a bull market in the last 5 years. I mean even if factors aren’t exactly the same for you, there’s a huge chance you go into age 40 at 500k — not bad.
Anon
Really? There was a numbers thread here and it seemed like most people had waaaaaay more around that age.
I’m another 34 year old with ~$200k in retirement accounts (between me and my husband). I feel behind, but our house is almost paid off so we’re going to up the retirement savings (planning to open IRAs for both of us this year).
Anon
11:14 here — there are people who have way more at 34. All I’m saying is that at 34 I had slightly less than both of you and yeah it felt like — wow only 200k, how will this come together. And then in the subsequent 5 years it did because I had a lot of capital in already (objectively, not relative to this board) + kept maxing out + got lucky with a match and bull market. All you need is a stretch in the market where it clicks for you and most people say that happens once you’ve hit 300k — simply because the absolute dollars made are higher once more is invested.
I also think that people who have a ton more at 34 are people who graduated into professional jobs at 22 — instead of 25-27. Can’t compare to those who got an earlier start. Plus what does comparing get you — you need to make sure YOU have enough.
Anon
How did you find your financial planner? This is what I want to do and cannot find someone not associated with a bank.
Old Millennial
Mine is Ameriprise affiliated, which I didn’t realize at first. I found her on my high school alumni FB group, of all places, on a thread seeking volunteers for Career Day. In school (early 2000s), she was three years older than me and I remembered her being this supremely awesome, super friendly, extraordinarily smart senior while I was this lowly freshman. On the FB thread she described herself as a “financial therapist” and that did it – that was exactly what I needed. I’m in finance, know more than enough to be dangers but can’t get out of my own personal investing way. We’ve had two meetings so far, and we’re getting all of our ducks in a row – everything from insurance to retirement to cash flow analysis to estate planning, etc.. I’m in greater Boston in case you’re in this neck of the woods and I’d be glad to recommend her.
Anon
I’m not particularly worried about it, since I’ve watched many family members retire with far less than $1M in the bank. With the exception of an aunt who retired at 70 with less than $50k in the bank, everyone else has managed to make it work. I may not be jet setting around the world in retirement, but I will be able to cover my living expenses (paid off house) and other necessities.
anon
I was going to respond and say, “doesn’t everyone feel this way?” but then I read the previous comments and I guess not…
I’m 37, married with two kids. We save 15% of gross for retirement (and also contribute to 529 accounts for the kids) but do not expect that to cover costs in our old age. My spouse plans to work until death or disability. I’d like to scale back but expect to work at least part time well into my 70s, if I am able to do so. My mom is 74 and works three days/week.
Anon
You’re saving 15% of gross and think it won’t be enough? Is your gross super low? How much is in retirement now?
Anon
Not the person you’re responding to, but 15% of my gross income is only $7k/year…that’s insanely low to me if that were my entire retirement savings. My lifestyle is modest and my house will definitely be paid off before I retire, but the real costs in retirement for most people are health care, and the nursing home doesn’t care if you earned $50k or $500k while you were working.
Anon
39 and single. My biggest worry is not saving for retirement but rather getting pushed out at 55 and having to tap into retirement way early. I’ve seen it happen to so many people in my family, family friends etc all in “good” industries like engineering. Honestly I feel like no one besides drs/healthcare fields are immune. Many were in the stage of life where it was like — oh good the kids just left home/graduated, NOW I’ll focus on maxing our retirement for the next 10-15 years, only to get laid off and take a long time to land a much lower paid job so instead of saving, they’re tapping into savings.
It’s why I’ve hustled hard in my 30s — including 4 years with a job I HATE because it has contributed a 55k match into my 401k in that time (my industry otherwise is 0 match). I can’t stay in this job forever as it’s affectubg my mental health but I’m holding on as long as I can because 55k invested now has the potential to be 235-300k at 65.
Anonymous
I think you are right and deserve a moment of recognition–staying at a job that you hated for years because of the financial benefits will definitely pay off in the long run.
Anon
Well I’m not a young millennial so it’s mor always about being happy RIGHT NOW. I’m also not like my Asian immigrant parents so unlike them I can’t fathom staying in a miserable situation forever just because of future financial benefits. I’m playing the in between— will stay in this job for a half decade or so for the financial benefits and then move on with that “extra” 60-65k invested for the next 2 decades.
Anon
I am an elder millennial and very doubtful about retirement. I started my “real” career later in life compared to my peers, and unlike most people here I’m not a lawyer and don’t make much money. The only savings I have are through my work pension. The biggest reason I won’t be able to retire, though, is that I’m single and probably staying that way. Without a second income, I can’t save the way I should. I will also never be able to buy a house. And no, I’m not spending my money on avocados. I get extremely depressed when I think about my future.
Anonymous
Yes, it is super hard when you are single. Nearly impossible. All of the success stories that you hear about on this board come from high earners with husbands. Even if you are a high earner, being single holds you back on the savings front.
Anon
I’m single and don’t necessarily but yeah as a single you kind of have to try to live on a % of your income not all of it – be it 50% or 80% or whatever. Obviously gross must be at a certain level to do that.
Monday
This is me as well (37). I work hard, but in a very low-paying field. I save as much as I can, but being single is a huge financial disadvantage that I’m having to plan around (can’t control whether that ever changes, really). Honestly, my greatest advantages going into retirement are 1) my divorce settlement from a few years ago, and 2) family members who keep telling me they will help (which I’d rather they not, but may be necessary). Both of these factors in my life are totally arbitrary, and that’s disturbing.
Anony
This is me also (36). Started my current career late (31) after 10 years of under-employment or unemployement and living paycheck to paycheck. Still digging out of credit card debt from that time period but did buy a house for my 30th birthday present (mortgage + utilities is less than rent in my area) and contribute 7% to my 401k with employer match. LT boyfriend is self employed and we do not share any finances; marriage/children are not in our future so I am really trying to be positive that I will be able to retire someday. I tell myself that I started all other life events later than my peers so hopefully, my financial windfall or high-paying job is coming soon. I am ready to lean in!
OP
We have very similar stories! I’m 34, started VERY entry level in my career at 30, following years of under-employment or unemployment, and I’m still dealing with the credit card debt from that time. My career is progressing – I’m making 2x what I did a few years ago, which sounds great on paper, but that only means that I’m finally able to pay the bills without going further into debt. I also struggle because I want to use my money to buy the things I missed out on in my twenties when I was broke, like traveling and nice clothes. Right now that seems more important than saving to buy a house or whatever. It’s hard.
Anon
Wow! I could have written this post! I left law at 32 and started from the bottom. Now I’m trying to save money and finally have fun, travel, go out more, but it’s stressful!!
anon
I feel this. It’s tough sometimes to watch my married friends start to surpass me substantially in wealth even though my salary isn’t necessarily lower (or not dramatically, anyway) as we get older. Wasn’t as obvious when the main expenses we were all budgeting for were Banana Republic and dinners out and first apartments, but now that we’re at the having kids, paying for weddings and big vacations, owning houses (and sometimes multiple houses) stage…
Anonymous
My husband and I are both government employees (state and fed, respectively). We are both 36, 3 kids, mortgage and student loan debt. I am on track to retire at age 50 with a defined-benefit pension. My husband plans to work until 65. I will probably work part-time/contract basis after retiring from my government job. We also have a fairly big (3 kids), expensive (so we could be in a good school district) house right now in an area that is growing so we hope to be able to sell and make a nice profit once the kids are grown. That’s the plan anyway. But who knows. My mother ended up getting cancer in her late 50’s and had to retire early really. She’s fully recovered and doing ok, but doesn’t have as much money as she anticipated.
Anonymous
Oops just re-read this. Other way around. I work for the state and have a pension. He works for the feds.
Worry about yourself
Yep. I’d rather not get into specifics about how much I have or how much I’m saving right now, but I’m 30, and I honestly don’t know if I’ll be able to fully retire until I’m 80. I’ll do my best, I’ll see what happens, and if my current boyfriend and I end up growing old together, we might be okay in the end.
Ellen
At least you have a boyfreind. I must do all of this on my own, b/c no man is willing to accede to my standards for a husband who I can bear children for in exchange for him supporting us and moving to Chapaqua. FOOEY!
Anonymous
My parents retired with a fraction of what the retirement calculators say you need, and nowhere near $1M, and they made it work (with social security). It can be done. It helps if you live in a LCOL area and have modest tastes, like they did. Then they both passed away within a few years of retiring. As a result, I’m taking a middle ground approach. I know firsthand that a long retirement is not guaranteed, so I’ve been saving aggressively up until now as a 30-something with a good job but also trying to travel and enjoy my life while I’ve got my health.
Ellen
Smart thinking. If we knew when our time was up, we could plan accordingly, but we don’t so we can’t and if we are not MARRIED, we must keep working on the assumption that we will have to support ourselves in retirement. So that is my story. No man, no kids, no house, so any nestegg is what I create, with help from my family. At least my sister has a husband to provide for her, but she is prettier then me with a small tuchus, and I can’t find a guy like she did.
Anon
34, single, divorced parent to one kid. I worry about this daily. I have no debt and good retirement savings (1.5x current salary) but I do not own a home in my VHCOL area and think almost daily about if I’m making the right or wrong choices about saving for a down payment or retirement. I will likely end up caring for or financially supporting a parent as well, and do not expect to inherit anything (other parent and all grandparents are dead). I don’t want to move because I grew up here and lived here my whole life; my entire social and professional network is here.
My plan is to have enough to buy a modest 1 bedroom apartment once my kid goes away to college and pay it off aggressively, then hope I die of a heart attack in my sleep so I don’t end up disabled enough to need long term care so I am not a burden to my child.
anon
I’m a young Gen Xer (or Xennial, if you will) at 41 and I’ve worked in gov’t for most of my career. Assuming I make it to 65 in my current job (entirely possible), I’ll have a defined benefit pension that will be in the six figures. Outside of that, I’ve saved about $250K in my 401(k). My husband is in private sector and has saved much more – about 600K in retirement accounts, but his job is less stable (though admittedly, his income is likely to only go up as the years pass, while mine will not). Priorities now are saving for kids’ college, so we’ll see.
Anonymous
Recommendations where to buy high quality, thick, warm cashmere? Uniqlo is great for the price but I want a workhorse to get me through the next 6 months of Chicago weather
Anonymous
Brora
poiu
Not a positive recommendation, but I got some Neiman Marcus cashmere last year (day after Christmas) and was very disappointed. Pilling after a few wears/ no washes.
midtown anon
ditto–mine fell apart at the elbows
anon
I’ve had good luck with Lands End cashmere when they are on sale.
And what is key for me is an under-layer – Cuddle Duds has been my go to for years.
MKB
It’s pricey, but I have an Eileen Fisher cashmere cardigan that is thick, soft, and lasted through a season of pretty heavy usage with no pilling. Would recommend.
Lounge Wear and PJs
A thread from yesterday inspired me to shop for cuter lounging clothes and pajamas. I need something to wear after work that is presentable but also comfortable. I also want to get some nicer PJs for when it gets a bit colder. What are your favorites right now?
anon
I recommended that! These are my very favorite lounge and sleeping leggings and I’m psyched that they are back! Ordering a 2nd (and maybe 3rd) pair tonight. They are on the thinner side so YMMV if you need, thicker, warmer ones.
https://www.gap.com/browse/product.do?pid=419656012&cid=38126&pcid=29504&vid=1&grid=pds_91_278_1#pdp-page-content
Anonymous
For pyjamas, I just ordered a pair of pyjamagrams from amazon and I really like them. Used to buy Karen Neuberger but found quality of that brand has really diminished.
Ms B
I am just shattered by Cokie Roberts’ death. She was part of my morning for so many years.
Trixie
Me too, and so young. To me, 75 is young for a death. Godspeed, Cokie Roberts.
January
Me too. I was so sad when that alert popped up on my phone.
NOLA
I was lucky enough to have met her more than once. She was absolutely lovely and gracious and inspiring.
Anon
Need help from the Hive. My great aunt is downsizing from her place to a retirement home. She lived in China and Taiwan. She has two qipaos (cheongsams) that are silk, handmade, with beautiful embroidery – much too small for anyone in my family. She also has three sheets of silk hand-embroidery, kind like size of a bedsheet. Where’s the best place to sell this? Or re-purpose for something that’s more useful? I’m struggling because the material is so delicate – it’s just not useful. My mom is like – no, we can’t use these as sheets or curtains. It’s too precious! Well, it’s already dirty because it’s been sitting in a closet for 20 twenty years.
Anon
I would get some kind of skilled craftsperson to cut the sheet-size pieces into smaller pieces that can be framed. An arrangement of three pieces could look nice.
Anonymous
This. Sounds like it would be beautiful framed.
Anon
Can you frame them or part of the embroidery and hang them up? Donate to culture-specific museums if there is one in the area? Have them made into party clutches/totes for special occasions?
Rainbow Hair
I would take them to a reputable cleaner and get them set up to store like they do with wedding gowns… they sound gorgeous and meaningful, and also like they don’t take up a ton of space — I can just imagine someone who is a kid in your family now growing up to be super into fashion or fabric or family history and absolutely treasuring them.
MagicUnicorn
Silk deteriorates in direct light, so curtains are definitely not a good idea. I like the idea of donating the qipaos to a museum or cultural institution and having the sheet-sized pieces sewn into something her family will use. A duvet and throw pillows? Skirts & ties for family photos?
anon
My recommendation would be to either frame it or have it made into pillows. That way your great-aunt can enjoy it, rather than being in the closet.
Lots to Learn
We have two heirloom christening gowns framed in our dining room and love them. They’re in ornate gold frames with a velvet background. So nice…
Anon
We just gave away an unused kimono set that someone gave to my (Japanese American) wife in the 1970s. We listed it on Craigslist, offered it for free. Gave it to a young woman who was absolutely ecstatic to have it. She is studying Japanese. She made herself a kimono of black crushed velvet, with embroidered red roses, for prom(!!). She has a husband who is also studying Japanese, with the plan they will visit or live in Japan someday. We also got calls from other people we would have been delighted to give the kimono pieces to. Don’t overlook Craigslist, if you don’t need to continue to own it.
Family pictures
I’m looking to transfer some old family slides to digital. I don’t have anybody that does it locally. Has anyone used an online service that they’d recommend?
Anon
Costco. Decent prices and very convenient.
Telco Lady JD
+1 We’ve used them for this, and it worked great.
DC fed
I had a good experience with Legacybox – but definitely wait for a 50% off sale or groupon.
San Fran advice
My SO and I have and evening and morning free to make our way to SFO from Big Sur.
He would like to pike around, take pics at Facebook/Google HQ area.
So my questions for the hive:
– is there much to see in the evening if we drive up from Big Sur (will be early Nov)
– hotel prices look insane in that area, would you just stay in San Jose for the evening and drive to SFO the following day?
Anon
There isn’t really anything to see at Google and Facebook, unless you have a friend on campus who can give you a tour. Maybe a sign to take a quick picture with or something, but you can’t just wander around campus, security will escort you off.
Are you trying to reach SFO the airport or SF the city? If the airport (which is quite a bit south of the city), yes definitely stay somewhere between San Jose and Burlingame where the airport is, no need to go any further north.
The sunset is early in November, probably around 6 pm. If you’re driving from Big Sur I’d definitely recommend doing that in the day time so you can enjoy the coastal scenery. SF is a city, so there’s plenty to do after dark (bars, restaurants, etc.) but it seems a shame to do the drive after dark and miss all the scenery.
Kara
What colors do you wear with very dark brown pants? I found a very comfy pair of pants in that color in the back of my closet, but don’t usually wear it and a lot of my clothes were selected to wear with black.
Cat
Icy pastels — blue is my favorite — look great with dark brown. Think flowering trees in spring against dark bark.
NOLA
When I wore brown, I either wore rust or light blue with it.
Senior Attorney
I also like navy (especially the brighter shades of navy) with brown. Also certain shades of gray. And, you know, leopard. Which is a neutral.
Vicky Austin
I have a brown pencil skirt whose most frequent companions are a pink blouse, a pale blue sweater, or a big chunky ivory sweater (that plus nude patent heels that are ostensibly way out of date, but I hardly live in the fashion capital of the world).
Anon
I wouldn’t wear pastels with dark brown – that screams outdated to me, like a suit I had in the 90s. I would wear them with a cream blouse and maybe a leopard accent like shoes or scarf. Keep it neutral.
Anon
+1
Flats Only
Peach or coral shades. Also ice blue as above.
Go for it
I love oyster or baby pink with brown. I’m also a weirdo :))
Anonymous
Does anyone have any techniques for limiting intrusive thoughts? Yesterday I accidentally saw very disturbing images and with even more disturbing explanation of the images, and I cannot get them out of my head. I wish I could erase the memory.
Anonymous
Google RAIN – recognize, allow, invesitgate, nurture. In short, don’t try to fight the thoughts. When you have them, just tell yourself “oh, there are those thoughts again.” Allow them to happen, investigate why you’re thinking of them in a nonjudgmental way and nurture/be gentle with yourself — essentially tell yourself “ugh this sucks that I’m thinking about this, but these thoughts won’t last forever” and think about how you can be kind to yourself during the process.
Trying to push them out may not work for you, but allowing them to take place and recognizing them as just thoughts might.
Anon
I don’t have tips but you might want to look into vicarious trauma resources for people that work investigating and prosecuting things that involve disturbing images.
Seamless
Find something else to intrude, or to focus your attention. My mother uses Baby Shark, because it may be annoying as all get-out but it’s not traumatic. I read – there’s some books I keep on my phone that are good at rinsing my brain out, but that’s going to be very personal.
(I am not a qualified professional, but I do have intrusive thoughts sometimes, and this is how I deal with them.)
Anon
First of all, I LOVE this blouse and wish I had a budget to spend $200 on it. That color is gorgeous and so are the buttons.
But my real question — do refrigerators with freezers on the bottom generally have more freezer room? I live alone and have a very moderate sized refrigerator. The fridge part itself is totally fine and meets my needs. The freezer is always stuffed full. The motor on the whole thing seems to be going (or something; it makes a lot of noise a lot of the time) so I’m considering replacing it. Or maybe I just need to get in the habit of cleaning out my freezer more often.
Anonymous
I think they generally have more room because you’re not losing freezer space to the ice maker like a side by side. Or maybe that’s just ours, Grr.
Anon
Oh, I should say, my current fridge is freezer on top, not side-by-side. I don’t think I have the space for one of those. Also, yeah, I don’t need an ice maker.
MagicUnicorn
The bottom freezers that I have encountered seem to have less useful space than top freezers in a comparably-sized fridge. They all have drawers/slide mechanisms that take up room and make it harder to pack things in.
Anon
I’ve always found top freezers are better than bottom freezers as you can see better and things are less prone to being stacked and hard to access (and you can buy or it comes with shelving inside). Bottom freezers seem to end up a hodgepodge and remind me of a kid’s toy chest just full of food – you can only see the top layer and things get pushed around as you search.
Alternatively – don’t get a side freezer. We can’t fit anything in there and it drives me crazy.
Anon
On the blouse issue, Express has a shirt that very similar called the ruffle portofino that’s $30.
Anon
Ditto the others on bottom freezers not being useful IRL. My ILs have one and you can’t see what’s in there and stuff gets buried… I’d rather just go with a side-by-side, even with the lost ice maker space.
Overthinking References
How many references is too few? I’m interviewing for a position on Friday, and I have 2 super-relevant references and a personal reference. Based on the below, how will that look to the employer/hiring manager?
I entered this industry two jobs ago – and have 2 very relevant, fantastic references from that first job; one moved on to do independent development work within the industry, the other is a nationally known expert in the somewhat niche area I work in, both of which the job I’m interviewing for entails. Both led many projects I worked on, are mentors to me, and I still occasionally consult on projects for both. One of them has consulted with Interviewing Company and already reached out to his contacts there after I applied.
The personal reference is someone I’ve served in leadership roles with, who knows me well and can speak to my strengths and passion for my industry. Additionally, I also have an advocate on the inside of Interviewing Company, someone I am well acquainted with through industry events but have never worked directly with (he is in an adjacent team to the one I’ve applied to work on). He is at the same level/same title as the person I would report to in this role. Not someone I can list as a reference, but he already made them aware of me.
I have not told my current job about interviewing for this position, so I hesitate to list anyone I’m currently working with, even though I would have a solid couple references to chose from here. Before entering this industry, I worked for 4 years in a family business, running a company with my dad. I feel I absolutely cannot list my dad on my reference sheet, even though with his background, he’d be an excellent reference for anyone else to have. If necessary, I could list a manager who was my direct report from that job who I still have a good relationship with, but it’s a different position and industry and I’m not sure entirely relevant. Previous to that job, I have a few people who would gladly give a reference but I feel like I’d really be stretching, as I haven’t worked with those folks for ~10 years.
Anon
Assuming that they do not specify a number, 2 references if fine and three is good. But, I would not use a personal reference. If I’m hiring, I assume you are interested in the area and want to speak to someone who can speak to your job skills. If the person who are calling a personal reference is someone who have served with on industry boards or in other leadership capacities in relevant groups, that is a professional reference. If they are someone who just knows you as a person because they are a friend or family friend, I don’t care about their opinion and would side-eye it when hiring.
Overthinking OP
Thank you – no requirement, I was worried 2 was too few, but they really are the right ones. I’ll remove the 3rd/personal reference – we have served on boards and in a leadership org together in the past, but have become friends and are not currently serving together, so perhaps that’s a blurry line.