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Suit of the Week: Joseph

Joseph Rocker wool-twill wide-leg pantsFor busy working women, the suit is often the easiest outfit to throw on in the morning. In general, this feature is not about interview suits for women, which should be as classic and basic as you get — instead, this feature is about the slightly different suit that is fashionable, yet professional. Here's the thing about women's suits: the pants are usually passable — but very rarely awesome. This is despite the fact that most women, like men, take off the suit jacket and wander the halls in just pants and top — so the pants really should be awesome. Still, I don't think I've ever found a suit that I stopped to look at just because the pants were so great. At least, not until this week, when I found these amazing navy pants. They're basic, sure, but you don't want fancy pants — just flattering, awesome pants, which these look like. Then, I noticed that Net-a-Porter said “coordinating item available.” So I clicked on over, and it turns out it's a suit. Hooray! Even though the suit is never pictured as a set (because apparently many Net-a-Porter customers like to guess when ordering $1000 worth of clothes online?), I'm featuring it this week anyway because the pants really do look amazing. The jacket (Joseph Sir wool-twill blazer) is $695, and the pants (Joseph Rocker wool-twill wide-leg pants) are $375.
Joseph Sir wool-twill blazer Joseph Rocker wool-twill wide-leg pants
(L-5)

Sales of note for 12.5

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

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207 Comments

  2. OK two things about this suit:

    1) Beautiful! I know this post isn’t generally about interview suits but this would be a great interview suit (at least on the West Coast).

    2) How much do y’all spend on work suits? Is this a normal price for a professional suit? If it helps, I’m about 7 years out of law school. I just bought a beautiful suit for a headshot and spent about this much. I don’t regret the purchase but wonder if maybe it was a little splurg-y? I am adding the suit as separates to my regular rotation–welcome to the Silicon Valley where I have an occasion to wear a suit once a year (if that).

    1. This is way more than I spend on a normal work suit. It could be my area, but most of the women around here seem to wear BR/Ann Taylor/J. Crew type suits, which are usually about $400 all together.

      Though I’d LOVE a spendier suit. They’re so beautiful.

      1. I’m a cheapskate, so take it with a grain of salt, but this would be way too much for my tastes. My top out is about $400, most are more like $200. But I’m a huge fan of The Limited, which I understand a lot of people around here sort of look down on. :) Probably all of my current suits are from there or BR.

        (I haven’t bought a suit in at least a year, probably more like 2, since we were first talking family planning and now gestating.)

      2. It’s a BOSS suit that my Nordie’s stylist picked out. So gorgeous!

    3. karenpadi, I think you did right buying one spendy suit. It sounds like you are a bit of a minimalist when it comes to your wardrobe, so having one really nice suit rather than several Ann Taylor level suits should be exactly right for your sensibilities (which I admire)

      1. yes at your(our) age, I think it makes sense for you to have 1-2 really high quality spendy suits in your wardrobe that are going to last for years, instead of AT/BR stuff that is going to fall apart after a year or two of wear (which is happening more and more).

        so, i approve ;o)

    4. most of my suits are theory-bought-on-sale – so actual cost between $400-500, depending on how deeply on sale the pieces were and whether i have just pants or pants and skirt, but sticker price closer to this featured suit.

      i would love a spendy/investment suit like this.

  5. Who has taken the Acela between DC and NYC? Is the quiet car really quiet? Is the wi-fi reliable? Also, do you show your ticket twice, to get on and then once again during the trip? I haven’t been on an Amtrak train since the 80s.

    1. I haven’t taken that route, but it is my understanding that the wifi is really just 3G service that is out through a router to people on the train via wifi. Your own 3G service is likely faster.

      At least in NYC, you typically flash your ticket to the person at the top of the stairs, then hand it to the conductor when he or she comes by. They punch something and leave a little slip above you. If you want to switch seats, you can just take the slip with you to your other seat. If the conductor comes back by a second time during the trip, he or she can see from that slip where you are going.

    2. Anecdotally, I know that some of the senior partners in my firm take it between DC and NYC regularly. They are pretty high maintenance people, so the ride can’t be unpleasant.

    3. Re Quiet Car- my experience with Amtrak on the NE corridor is that the Quiet Car is quiet and people Take. It. Seriously. I once was in the quiet car on a regular Amtrak train and had some classical music playing on my iPod- took the bud out of my ear for about 30 seconds and had the passenger next to me snark at me that I was in the quiet car and I should stop it with the noise (no joke). On the regular Amtrak those cars were silent as death for the most part, so I can’t imagine the Acela is different.

      Re wireless on the Acela, I have taken it a few times and it seems pretty reliable. My old company had a policy that if you were business traveling by train it had to be on the Acela so you could get work done with internet, so take that for what it’s worth that the internet was reliable enough for a big company to make a transit policy based on it.

      Re ticket- yes, your ticket will be checked once to get on the train (a conductor type will glance at your ticket as you go through the gate) and then while on the train, the conductor comes by and punches the ticket/puts a thing above your chair to say where you are going.

      Finally in general- not sure the price differential is worth it for a trip to NYC from DC. You won’t make up that much time. The one way Acela does have advantage is that is uses different tracks and gets prioritized, so in an event where the regular train is shut down/delayed, Acela may not be. But, if it’s just for a casual trip you’re paying for, I might suggest saving your money. But if your company is paying for it, it’s probably fine, just don’t expect to arrive to NYC in a vastly quicker amount of time.

      1. I would never scold you for 30 seconds of classical music, but I think that because the quiet car is *so* quiet, any noise at all can be really jarring. The quiet car requires a serious commitment to quietness.

        1. I have mixed feelings on the quiet car. Sure, it’s nice to have a quiet space, and I agree people should not be using cell phones or talking in a normal voice because those are pretty reasonable things explicitly not allowed. But I think somebody even snarked at me for sneezing once. I hated getting stuck in the quiet car (I took the NE Corridor train almost weekly for awhile) because I never knew when some overly uptight person would comment rudely at me for doing something like existing/breathing/shuffling around.

          1. Well, snarking for sneezing is just ridiculous. I just love the quiet car because I live and work in noisy urban areas and ride the metro all the time, and the idea of this calm, gently rocking oasis of quiet where I can read without interruption or just stare out the window is literally the greatest thing I can think of. I am actually disappointed when I reach my destination and have to leave the quiet car, so I can get a little overprotective of it sometimes, and it sounds like I’m not alone. I’m sorry you’ve encountered some cranky people though. A truly dedicated Quiet Car Enforcer weighs the ruckus caused by chastising someone against the noise the person is making and proceeds accordingly. Maybe I should write a handbook?

          2. DC Jenny you should! there are rules for riders and enforcers alike. I always give people 2 minutes before scolding. A sneeze, never! A phone call that says “hello? sorry i am on the quiet car i will call you back, bye” does not get a scold. A full phone call? two minutes and then you get the (polite) request to be quiet.

    4. The quiet car on the Acela is truly a quiet car. And the trip between NYC and DC takes about 3 hours. I find it much more comfortable than the regular non-Acela train, and it’s so much easier than flying.

    5. I haven’t taken the Acela, but the regular train from DC to NYC has a quiet car, and it’s my idea of heaven. Of course, occasionally someone gets on who flouts the quiet car regulations, and then I become The Quiet Car Enforcer and say something like, “You may not have noticed, but this is the quiet car. No cell phones allowed.” You do not mess with my quiet car.

      The last time I was on my way back from NY, a woman brought a small, shouty child onto the quiet car and was immediately called out by someone (not me). The mom got all huffy at the implication that the small child wouldn’t be quiet, and I was expecting a major showdown. But then, much to my amazement, he sat quietly the whole time. Even little kids can respect the quiet car, so I have high expectations for everyone else.

    6. Wifi goes in and out depending on location. I’d say I had it 85-90% of the time. the quiet car is pretty quiet, but get there early to hustle into that car. I didn’t make it in since it was a sold out train, but between my noise cancelling headphones and music I couldn’t hear anything in the regular car.

      The Acela isn’t that much faster, but my understanding is it guarantees you an actual seat. Regional trains apparently sometimes they oversell and you can get on but have to stand.

    7. I was on it yesterday and have traveled by Acela in the Northern direction many times.

      The quiet car is indeed quiet. The passengers and the conductors take it seriously and will scold anyone who is on the phone for too long or having a conversation with friends/colleagues. The wifi is acceptable, not perfect. The more difficult thing is trying to type on a laptop while the train rocks around. I also tend to get motion sick on the Acela (not on the NorthEast Regional), especially whent rying to work, so you may want to keep that in mind.

      The increase in price is worth it for me if I’m traveling for business because of the free wifi and the bigger seats. I use the regional train for personal travel if the prices are too high on Acela (eg, when booking last minute).

    8. Acela is great, quiet car is quiet, the wireless internet is terrible. It relies on towers from city to city, so the signal is non-existent most of the time. If you have a 3/4G device (iPhone, iPad), I would use it on the cell network instead of trying to get the wireless signal.

      1. I agree with this assessment. I take the Acela from NYC to DC a few times a year, and the wireless is awful. Do not assume that you will be able to connect to your firm’s network and maintain that connection long enough to do any work. Otherwise, the train is great.

    9. The quiet car is silent and don’t you forget it. Or they will give you the death stare. Seriously, don’t even chat with your seat mate. :-)

    10. It is expensive! The manageing partner perfers we wear skirt’s to be lady-like, but this would BE OK in the winter.

      And so is the ACCELLA train, very expensive! I think if you can get the firm to pay for it, FINE, but otherwise, it is not worth the money. I once took this TRAIN and was suposed to get a sunday paper, but there was NONE, and I paid about $50 more for the seat. I think I got a free cofffee which was not good. FOOEY!

      The manageing partner is very happy that I got a new cleint, but he does NOT like the idea of giving a discount on my HOURLEY’s to Roberta. He said to have her come in for LUNCH and he will take us all out to the Lamb’s Club (which has good salad’s). He also wanted to know which law firm is mishandeling these cases now. I said I did NOT know.

      If we get 100 cases from Roberta, I thought I could get an average of 20 hour’s on each case that just can be disposed of by MOTION. That is 2000 hour’s. His EYE’s lit up when I did the MATH for him! I am going to get a big BONUS if this work’s for us. Yay!

    11. This is very helpful. I plan to get there early and get on the quiet car. Thanks ladies.

    12. Took it about a dozen times when I had interviews, the wi-fi is ok–it is generally reliable but sometimes will get into spots where you have to keep re-signing in. I did not use it for work though–was a law student.

      The Acela is more reliable, because if there are delays, the Acela gets priority over regional trains at different stops. It is not actually much faster though (but guaranteed arrival time).

      The quiet car is super quiet.

    13. the Acela is great. The quiet car is QUIET. wifi is usually ok, but more for sending and receiveing emails than for streaming video or something.

      you have to have your ticket in view to get through the doors to the platform. And then have it ready to hand to the conductor when they come through collecting tickets.

      As folks said above, it’s not a ton faster, but i always took the Acela when I could afford it, it’s just nicer, i like the quiet car, and its usually less crowded. I think the train is the thing i miss THE MOST about the east coast, so have a nice trip!!

    14. I love the Acela! I have taken it from Boston to NYC numerous times.

      As most others have said, the quiet car truly is quiet.

      I find the wifi to be spotty at best, but maybe it is different on the NYC to DC leg.

    1. It was good. I’m sort of glad with this ending, I feel like it gives them license to explore both relationships (though I’m still on Team Wade. 4eva.)

    3. I agree that George is kind of boring but I did feel kinda sorry for him. I mean, doesn’t the fact that he called off his wedding etc. count for anything?

  7. Threadjack!

    By the end of the year, I’ll be down to about $5,500 in student loan debt. It’s consolidated at 3.125% interest, and I’ve been paying off the total slowly–about $200 per month–since I left college.

    About a year ago when I realized I had $47 to my name, I finally got serious about saving, and have put about $5,500 towards an emergency fund this year. I’d ideally like to get that total up to around $15,000 (I live in a really expensive metropolitan area).

    My question is thus: is it a good idea for me to use my year-end bonus this year to try and wipe out the student debt, or should I apply the majority towards my emergency fund? I anticipate receiving about $5,000 net for the bonus.

    This was never a conflict for me in past years when paying off the loans seemed much farther away, but now that it’s almost within reach, I am yearning to be debt-free. I could use some impartial advice on this. I’m also thinking about moving across the country next year–I would only do this if I could find a job first, but if I’m going to make such a big life change, maybe it makes more sense to boost the emergency fund as much as possible?

    What say you, hive?

    1. I should add that, if I paid off the loans, I would likely just boost up my monthly savings by $200 per month.

    2. I would save the money. I just moved and even with relo assistance, moving is horribly expensive. Give yourself a cash cushion.

    3. You might consider using half to pay student loans and saving the other half?

    4. Most conventional wisdom is going to say pay off the loan first, then save. But if you don’t feel comfortable with your savings now (and I wouldn’t, in a metropolitan area, unless you have some other source of emergency funds), I would lean toward building the savings up. If you’re going to put a lump sum into your savings, maybe you’ll feel more comfortable paying something like $50 more a month on your loans.

    5. I would save it. Your loan rate is low. The extra security of bigger savings would be worth more to me than the interest you will have to pay on the loan.

    6. Remember that you can always split the amount. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing to your options. He many months of expenses is your $5500? I’d probably split it up to add 1 or 2 months of savings and then put the rest to the loans.

      Congrats on getting so close! The finish line is in sight!

    7. What is the wiggle room like in your budget? How far would your emergency savings go? If you can buckle down and save 5k in a year, you have more than enough time to be really aggressive with your student loan. If it were me, I would take the last two months of the year and cut anything frivolous out of your budget and hammer out that student loan. Put the money in savings – you can always pay it off at any time, but who knows when an emergency hits.

    8. I would save it. 3.125% is only moderately above inflation, so really, you’re not losing that much by paying it at the minimum amount each month. And you get the benefit of the positive effect on your credit score of paying your bill on time each month (especially since you live in a large metro area and therefore may not have a car or a mortgage for quite some time.) And increasing your savings buffer is kind of critical, especially in this economy where jobs are not what one would call completely reliable. So I’d save your bonus, or at least most of it. But that’s me.

    9. Another vote for save.

      The recommendation for an emergency fund is 3-6 months of expenses. $5000 wouldn’t do it for me.

      Plus, as someone else said, moving is expensive.

    10. I would wipe out the debt and be done with it, then put what used to be your debt payments into savings. But I don’t think that it’s likely to make a huge difference in the long run. Good luck on your move, if it winds up happening!

    11. Assuming this is your only debt… .

      How’s your job security and insurance? If good on both fronts, then pay off the student loan just to be done with it and then save aggressively. If job security is not so good or your insurance sucks, stash it.

      Also, typically for an emergency savings fund you should have 3-6 months of pay build up, depending on your job security. Again, if good I would go with the lower end and would instead max out 401K, invest into IRA, and then just invest, in that order.

    12. Thank you everyone! I know deep down that saving is probably the better option for me, but it’s really good to hear it externally.

  8. Let’s say you married your best friend and had a child, but came to realize after years together that you were not “in love” with this great person. You now are sure that you are gay and will never be attracted to your spouse. Personal and marriage counseling have not helped. Would you stay married?

    1. Assuming an open marriage is not an option that both parties are 1000% comfortable with, absolutely not. That’s totally unfair to the spouse, who deserves to be married to someone that actually wants to be married to them (or at least knowingly chooses to be married to a person who is LGBT), and also totally unfair to yourself. This situation happened to a friend of mine in high school – one of her parents realized s/he was LGBT and after much soul searching and sadness/anger, they divorced. My friend is fine (i.e. not “damaged”) and she has a great relationship with her LGBT parent and his/her partner. Unfortunately, in this particular situation, the divorcee did not take it well and has nursed a grudge ever since. However, I am certain it doesn’t have to be that way. Divorcees nurse grudges for all kinds of reasons, and other divorcees move on to positive things after facing the same kinds of reasons, too. Hugs and love to you.

      1. “Divorcees nurse grudges for all kinds of reasons, and other divorcees move on to positive things after facing the same kinds of reasons, too.”

        Actually, in my unfortunate experience, some divorcees nurse grudges BECAUSE the other partner moved on to positive things.

    3. No, absolutely not. It’s not fair to the other person if you are no longer attracted to him. That would be a pretty miserable life.

      1. And I should mention that I have a young gay male friend who, when he moved here, thought he could suppress the fact that he was gay and get married and have a family. Other friends and I told him very strongly that he should not do this – how awful would it feel to be married to someone who was not attracted to you and not know why? Not saying you did this. Sometimes it takes awhile to figure these things out.

      2. It’s also not fair to YOU. You deserve to be in a relationship with someone you love.

    4. No. Like SF Bay Associate said, unless both parties would be ok with an open marriage, neither party will be truly happy in a relationship that isn’t right for them.

    5. The really really short answer to this question is no. Because its not really fair to either you or your spouse, since you both deserve fulfilling, s*xually satisfying relationships — and if you’re not in one then, well, then its better for both parties to separate. And its better for the child[ren] as well because children are better off being raised by happy parents.

      The much longer answer is that I think its *possible* that you could theoretically stay married in a nonmonogomous marriage in which both of you were allowed to have serious, extra-marital relationships within pre-discussed guidelines (like the fact that you prioritize your family first). But, you’d have to decide WITH your husband that that was something you wanted to do — and it would take a lot of work and a lot of emotional honesty from both of you. And you’d probably have to find a therapist who was able to help you work through all this but wasn’t committed to helping you maintain a “traditional” marriage — really in that case you’d be more like married roommates. But…you’d have to decide, is that what you want? And is that what your husband would want? Maybe…he is your best friend. But — you can’t possibly live like you are (or maybe you can….but its unlikely to be happy, healthy, or particularly honest.)

      Anyway, that’s just my two cents. Maybe I’m full of it.

      1. I agree with TCFKAG, I have never been in this situation; it sounds agonizing, and I wish you the best, whatever you decide.

        For what its worth, I know a couple who is divorced with grown (30’s) children and dad has lived with his male partner for more than a decade. The parents have a very amicable relationship; they seem to be great friends (mom is friendly with the new partner as well, but she and dad are still very close), and the entire family happily spends time together for holidays and special occasions. I’m sure things don’t go that well for every marriage that ends for this reason, but it is possible.

      2. More background. Opening the marriage is not an option, but straight spouse is fully aware of the issue, there has been no inrentional dishonesty on part of gay spouse (just suppression and denial) and straight spouse says that a s*xless marriage is not a dealbreaker because the partnership is otherwise great.

        1. Fooey on that. Even if straight spouse is purportedly fine with a celibate marriage (for how long, I wonder?), gay spouse is not happy with celibate marriage, and is also being forced to live a lie. I, as a straight person, can’t imagine being celibately married to another woman, even if she was my very best friend. I love my BFF very very much, but I don’t want to be married to her. Gay spouse deserves to have a happy and fulfilling life, which means relationships with her preferred gender if she so chooses. Gay spouse cannot have that life in straight celibate marriage. If the partnership is so great, then the spouses will be a great team focused on their platonic love for each other and their child even after the divorce, which allows gay spouse to live an authentic life, however gay spouse chooses to define that life. Suppression and denial are not good ways to live a life, and set a terrible example for the child. You deserve to live your life honestly and openly.

          2. +1 to everything. Stated so beautifully too I might add.

            The parents can and should still have a partnership – raising their child. You don’t have to be married to each other to continue being best friends and building on a lifelong partnership.

          3. +1 and L is very right about how the partnership can continue, albeit without the s*x problem.

        2. I’m sorry, but one spouse doesn’t unilaterally get to decide that the other spouse in a marriage has to spend their entire life celibate. It doesn’t work that way. If opening up the marriage isn’t an option, I think you know what the only real solution is. Unfortunately. In the end though, I think everyone will be happier, though I’m sure it will take a little while.

          1. I’m sorry, but one spouse doesn’t unilaterally get to decide that the other spouse in a marriage has to spend their entire life celibate. It doesn’t work that way. If opening up the marriage isn’t an option, I think you know what the only real solution is. Unfortunately. In the end though, I think everyone will be happier, though I’m sure it will take a little while.

        3. A friend from high schools parents did this. As far as I knew, she was out, he was straight, they remained married and living together. If the marriage was open, it was not publicly open but she was public about the fact that she was lesbian. We never heard her talk about dating anyone or see anyone over the house besides her and the dad. No idea what the true arrangement was.

    6. I think the only scenario in which staying in the marriage is ethical is where the spouse is fully aware of the gay spouse’s orientation and has made a conscious decision to stay. After the truth is out, the rest is for you to decide together.

      1. Thanks for all of the very thoughtful responses. This is not an easy situation. All perspectives appreciated.

    7. I respectfully disagree with the majority. I would (or at least, would like to think that I would) accept that I had made my choices and have no right to put the kids through divorce because of my mistake. I do not agree that the parents’ fullfillment is as important to the children as having a stable household, barring situations where the parents are acting intolerably towards each other or the children, which, of course, can and should be avoided. I realize that many disagree with this, but I have witnessed enough examples on both sides that I am convinced.

      1. You’ve witnessed lots of examples of people staying with gay spouses for the sake of the kids and it working, and not of normal people divorcing and everything being fine? South must be more interesting that I knew!

        1. It sounded to me like Lyssa was saying she had seen examples of (i) parents who divorced, and (ii) parents who stayed together for the sake of maintaining a stable household for their children. I didn’t get that she was specifically saying she had seen married couples in which one spouse was gay.

        2. I live in the Midwest and I have witnessed this. Typically the reasoning is that “We made a promise ‘as long as we both shall live’ and we’re not dead yet!” I think it is admirable. I don’t know what private arrangements they’ve worked out (and it’s not my business) but my guess is celibacy.

        3. Are you saying this because you know Lyssa to be from the south or are you just being presumptuous?

      2. Lyssa, this would seem to be the minority opinion, but I agree with you. Married seems to be saying that the couple in question are happy in their partnership except that one of them thinks s/he might find more sexual fulfillment with a different partner. Once a couple has a child, I do not think they should dissolve the family for this reason, or at least they should try as hard as possible to stick it out. The search for total personal fulfillment shouldn’t trump all other commitments, and the commitment to raise a child is one of the most important ones we make in life.

    8. No. You’re gay. You deserve a love and a healthy sex life, and your spouse deserves a partner who can give hir the love and affection ze deserves. In the long run, your children will benefit more by having parents who aren’t living a lie.

  9. Former BigLaw lawyers: When do you know that it’s time to leave? How do you evaluate when you’re truly burned out, versus just tired and in need of a vacation?

    1. First, take a real vacation. Whatever you can manage. See how you feel after that. Then, make like Claudia in the Mixed Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler and make sure you are running TO something, not away from something. Really think about what you want and how to get it. This includes what kind of work you want (litigation, real estate, copyright, whatever), where you want to do it (which city, firm or in-house or government), financial issues (think about how much money you want to have saved for retirement when you leave BigLaw and save it before you leave while the saving is easy/ier) and what you want your life to look like in personal ways.

      Good luck.

    2. First, take a real vacation. Whatever you can manage. See how you feel after that. Then, make like Claudia in the Mixed Up Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler and make sure you are running TO something, not away from something. Really think about what you want and how to get it. This includes what kind of work you want (litigation, real estate, copyright, whatever), where you want to do it (which city, firm or in-house or government), financial issues (think about how much money you want to have saved for retirement when you leave BigLaw and save it before you leave while the saving is easy/ier) and what you want your life to look like in personal ways.

      Good luck.

    3. For me, it was:

      (a) when I found myself thinking that staying at work until 9:00pm was “normal”, and
      (b) when I looked ahead and decided I didn’t want to sell my soul to the firm to make partner.

      Plus, there was the fact that I was really badly depressed and figured out it was situational, so needed to get out of the situation for my own health.

    4. When you truly hate going to work every day…. That was my gauge at least (lasted almost 4 years), though in retrospect I think I actually stayed longer than I should have. I didn’t realize how much “life” I was missing out on.

      [This is of course my opinion. I still have many, many friends in big law who don’t feel like they are missing out on life. The environment/hours just weren’t sustainable for me.]

    5. Put an item on your Outlook calendar for 6 months from now. I called mine “DOES YOUR JOB STILL SUCK?” If this answer is yes, give yourself permission to start looking.

      1. Herbie, love this. I just got this pep talk from my personal mentor today, except that he said to give it a 1 year horizon.

        (and my job doesn’t suck. what my interesting and enjoyable job takes away from my personal life sucks)

    6. When I went to a conference and realized 99% of the people in my practice group were horrible human beings. And that the remaining 1% didn’t have enough work for me. It took me 2 years after that to get out in a non-career killing way. But the realization that I didn’t have to be perfect (because I didn’t want to make partner) helped me survive.

  10. If you’re planning a dinner with a group of friends, all of whom but one are coupled up, what do you do? I feel like it would be awkward to be the only non-coupled person there, but usually I would just bring it up and say, “this is awkward,” but I feel like by doing that you are sort of commenting that the person is a second-class citizen by not being coupled. And I obviously don’t want to exclude the person. What should I do?

    1. Invite the single person. Offer the information about who else will be there. Invite the single person to bring a guest.

    2. From experience, it is indeed somewhat awkward to be the only single person there, but even more awkward to have someone point it out in advance. Just invite the person, and if s/he wants to bring a date, fine.

      1. Thanks. That’s really what I was wondering; I’m definitely including the person because being excluded is the worst, but I was wondering whether to say something about it.

        1. I would only say something if one of the coupled- people make a stupid “smug marrieds” comment, and then it’d be a clue-by-four to the head of the person who made such a comment.

          Saying something pre-emptively would suggest that you thought there was something weird about the single person. I don’t see why it’s strange or awkward.

        2. Is this single person part of this group of friends? By that I mean, is it typically all of you as a group that hangs out? If so, then I’d bet they already know who else is invited.

          Either way, I’d just casually name the other people you invited. It doesn’t have to be a big deal.

    3. I recently had dinner that was single me and three couples. I didn’t think it was awkward, until they started demanding stories of my dating adventures, of which I really had none.

      1. The worst. My 3 closest local friends are married/engaged and one is expecting a baby. My dating life currently revolves around wondering if this one guy is into me irl, or if it’s only good because its convenient. I don’t think that is the kind of stuff they want to hear about.

        1. Yeah, I get it. Anything I could have said would have been boring and/or embarassing for me, so I tried to pass on that question.

    4. Assuming this isn’t a key/swap party, I can’t imagine why it’s even an issue. Invite the person. Don’t bring it up ahead of time. I was a professional third/fifth wheel for four years and it never bothered me a bit. I’ve never felt awkward, or compelled to have a date.

    5. Unless all the couples are planning to make out at the table or exchange inside jokes or compare wedding rings the entire time, I really don’t see why it would be awkward.

    6. Invite the single person. We don’t like to feel excluded just because we don’t have a relationship. It’s a double-blow to the ego.

    7. It’s not awkward though, the person is single — not you know, defective or infectious or something. Invite them. Don’t do something weird like leave an empty seat next to them. Don’t spend the whole evening talking about weddings or something — and I think you’ll be fine. Single people spend time with people in couples all the time….I mean, I know it’s hard to believe, but they learn to cope. ;-)

    8. I was constantly the only single person within my group of friends for a long time and I would have been really sad if I wasn’t invited to something because of that (unless it was some sort of couples only event like a triple Valentines day date or something). Invite the friend and leave it up to your friend whether or not it will feel too awkward to attend.

    9. Depends on the non-coupled person and the group. If all the coupled people and their spouses are genuinely friends with everyone else, why comment at all? You guys are all friends, some just happen to be coupled. My group of friends is genuinely all friends (i.e. my SO hangs out with them without me) and some of us are coupled, some not, it is never even something we address or think about. If it is a situation where you are 5 girlfriends, and 4 bring their boyfriends…maybe a joke about having to drag them along might be in order, particularly if you think the one friend would be sensitive to it. Honestly, I probably woulndn’t say anything.

    10. (1) Invite the single friend.

      (2) Watch Bridget Jones Diary ahead of time, if you haven’t already seen it.

      (3) At the dinner party, do NOT behave like the “smug marrieds” and quickly veer the conversation in a different direction if it looks as if any of your coupled guests are heading down that path.

    11. if at all possible, I invite 3 single people… that way it’s not couples + 1 or couples + 2, in which case (as a single person) I often felt like the host was trying to set me up with the other single person. But if you can’t invite 3 single people, then just invite the one :-)

    12. I don’t think you mean this, but it sounds like you’re saying that being single makes your friend a second class citizen.

    13. I agreed – it may be awkward to be the only single person there, but if your group of friends are all friends with one another, it shouldn’t matter. I’m very often the third or fifth or seventh wheel (both when I was single and because my SO lives in another city) and I don’t mind because I genuinely enjoy the company of my friends and their respective boyfriends and fiances. I do mind when it becomes pointed out and I’m made to feel “lesser” but luckily my friends no longer do that, even unintentionally.

    14. I’m late the the party, but I suggest seating couples separately for dinner. If it is a sit-down dinner, assign seats so people aren’t sitting next to their spouses. It lets people meet others, encourages varied conversation, and reduces the chances of couples huddling in their own conversations and/or lovey-doveyness.

  11. Can anyone recommend a good toiletry bag for travel? I am looking for something sturdy and that will hold all of my stuff, preferably hanging. When I travel, I feel like I have to bring 3 separate small bags to fit all of my makeup, shower stuff, face creams, contacts stuff, etc. Would really appreciate any suggestions!

    2. I have this (or similar) Eagle Creek one. I like it; it’s durable and has lots of space. But now that you have pack liquids and gels separately for air travel, I’m not getting as much of a benefit from an all-in-one toiletry bag—somehow I’m too lazy to consolidate once I reach my destination.

      http://shop.eaglecreek.com/packit-wallaby/d/1106

    4. not a hanging bag – but I love my train case. Can’t think of the brand, but you may want to consider those.

    6. Muji if you have access to a store (there’s one in downtown Manhattan I think). Big selection in all sorts of configurations including ones that hang up, sturdy, inexpensive.

    7. Ikea had a good sturdy hanging toiletry bag, but alas, it seems to be discontinued. Look in stores with outdoors/hiking/camping equipment, they usually have toiletry bags like this.

    1. Oh hon. My heart goes out to you.

      Do you have plans for wine, ice cream and trashy TV tonight?

      Hang in there. It hurts so so bad, but it also gets easier.

      1. And candy. And mac n cheese. And big hugs, Mrs. BEF! All that in reverse order!

      1. That was going to be my question.

        Take care of yourself, hon, and I second the wine and cookies.

    5. I’m so sorry; I hope you have a good friend around to whom you can cry, if that helps you, or just wine and cookies and a movie.

    6. Oh no! I’m sorry. You know we’ll be here for you when you need help picking out the best post-break-up awesome outfits to make you feel great. And the best cookies and wine that pair well together. And other such things. :-(

    7. I am so so sorry. Lots of hugs. and cocktails.

      If there is a positive note, at least you found out now instead of wasting anymore time with him. You are clearly an awesome woman and there is someone out there who will appreciate you to the fullest.

      More hugs!

      1. Damn mod

        Your comment is awaiting moderation.

        I am so so sorry. Lots of hugs. and co**tails.

        If there is a positive note, at least you found out now instead of wasting anymore time with him. You are clearly an awesome woman and there is someone out there who will appreciate you to the fullest.

        More hugs!

    8. I’ve cried and am still crying. I have a friend who has offered me her guest bedroom, some homemade shrimp fired rice, and sake for the evening. So I’m set for tonight, it’s every minute after that I am wondering about.

      So, I’m trying to find the positive. One good thing is that I can see how much I have grown as a person since the last time everything happened because although there is some crying, I’m not immobilized because of it. This is not the end of my world. I did nothing wrong. I was the best person and girlfriend I could be, but he just was not the right person for me.

      1. Try to find the positive (of which I’m sure exists), but also give yourself permission to wallow for awhile. For now, the positive is that it sounds like you have a fantastic friend.

        2. Agree 100%. In my experience, the first 3 to 7 days is the worst. But you can get though that! Take advantage of all the nice things you’ve ever done for your parents, your siblings (if you have them), your friends, and start cashing in for phone calls and in-person dates. In a few months you can say, “thank you so much for letting me weep over the phone every night for two weeks,” but for now, just do it. Do whatever it takes to make yourself feel ok. And keep us posted.

      2. Oh my dear, I’m so sorry to hear this. Doing the right thing can be very painful sometimes. So I’m glad your friend is taking good care of you.

        People will come and go, and sadly, that includes some friends and some lovers. But I admire your strength and your vast internal resources to know that the future is still wide open, full of yet to be discovered possibilities.

        You will always have you, and you sound like a pretty fantastic person to me.

        *hugs*

      3. This is so fresh, it may be a little early for this, but is there anything you’ve wanted to do that you have avoided because of your relationship? For example, I have a friend who was in a long term relationship with a guy who was allergic to cats, but she always wanted one, so after they broke up she adopted two kittens*. If there is something you’ve put off like that, thinking about/planning to do it might help get you through.

        Note: *I do not advocate making a big decision like adopting a pet right after a breakup. Said friend started doing research about adoption after the breakup, but didn’t finalize the adoption until several months later.

      4. I’m so sorry. This must be hard. I hope that soon you can see some of the good in it, though. Like the fact that you’re doing what is best for you, and that you have just paved the way for something better and well deserved. Sending you good vibes.

      5. I’m so sorry. I’ve been thinking about you since your tj. I’m so glad you have a good friend to help you tonight. Please take care of yourself. I’m so glad you realize that you were an awesome friend and gf, and whenever you feel down, remind yourself of that. I love the note below about the future Mrs. BEK telling you you will be fine, because you will.

      6. You’re better off without him! And you have so much awesome life ahead of you! I am jealous about all the opportunities. :)

        Sending a virtual martini and some angry girl music your away.

      8. I recommend sparkling rose and macarons. My brother and his wife brought those back from Paris from me and I’ve been indulging all week.

      9. I’m so, so sorry. Please keep us updated and, if you’re comfortable, let us know your area – wish I could deliver cupcakes and wine! It will get better.

      10. I am so sorry. This moment sucks, but you can get through all of this. Take things one day at a time, one step at a time. Do all the things that you’ve been wanting to do – I mean it. DO THEM. Do something for yourself; be the best person that you can be to yourself. I promise that it will get better. And I don’t make promises that I can’t keep.

    9. So sorry! {{Hugs}}

      I hope this evening is full of whatever comforts you most (for me it would be comfort food for supper, then great ice cream/custard, lots of chocolate, and reading into the wee hours of the morning).

      Is he going to be at the apartment tonight, too? If so, is there anywhere else you can go to escape while things are newly raw?

    11. I’m so sorry. Hopefully this is for the best, and you will look back on this day as a milestone where your life improved. But even if that day comes, it doesn’t make it any easier right now.

      Give yourself some love and treats today. I also recommend creating a playlist of epic empowered break up songs. Sample tracks include I Can’t Believe What You Say by Ike and Tina Turner and Single Ladies by Beyonce.

      *Internet hugs.*

    12. I’m so sorry. How are you doing right now? Is there anything any of us can do to help? I don’t think you are in NYC, but if you are I’ll totally take you out for a drink.

      1. Yes, this. I’m pretty sure you’re not in Oklahoma, but I would buy you a drink (and a pink, sprinkle-covered cupcake) if you were here.

      2. I think you might be in Denver. If so, I’ll take you out for that drink tomorrow. AnonymousOdessa at gmail

    16. So very sorry to hear that. Please take care of yourself. And, from experience— after such a long relationship, you might be in shock about this for a couple days before you start processing it. The “shock” can sometimes be useful; it helps you get the logistics (moving?!?) out of the way before the grief kicks in. But once you plow through that stuff, try not to numb out. This is a big loss, and it deserves to be mourned.

      Also: the Ms. BEF from the future wants you to know that you WILL be fine.

      1. I like that last line, and I would add a quotation some other wise cretter posted a while back: “A year from now, you’ll wish you’d started today.” In other words, if this relationship wasn’t going to take you where you wanted to go, you now have a whole extra year (or two years, if you did the living-separately thing, or however long it otherwise would have taken for this to end) to seek out relationships, activities, etc., that will be fulfilling to you. You are young, you are starting a new phase of your life (job, school, SO changes), but you are also grounded (same city, same friends), and you can start finding the relationship that will take you where you want to go.

    17. It will get better. From what I read today you absolutely did the right thing. Hang in there.

    19. so sorry – hopefully this is for the best. lots of internet hugs, and be really good to yourself right now. you deserve it.

    20. True story. The [this site] meet up was born when one poster suddenly learned her husband was leaving her. She posted here. Another poster said “where are you, someone can buy you a drink.” They were in the same town and the rest is history.

      Come here for all the support you need and don’t feel bad about posting often. If you are comfortable, say what state or region you are in and maybe make a new friend!

      I’m sorry you are dealing with this. When I read your last post (too late to comment) I thought living apart was code for “I don’t want to break up while we live together.” So sorry.

      1. Actually, the original poster with the departing husband recently moved to Colorado. If you are in the same town, she’d probably buy you a drink.

        1. Darn! I was just in CO 2 weeks ago hiking. Well, hugs wine and ice cream from me too!

    21. I’m so sorry for your pain right now. I do think that it is for the best, though. Take care.

    22. So sorry. Hugs. Shrimp fried rice and sake might just be the new wine and cookies.

    23. Major hugs. Like everyone else, I wish you all the best (and do believe that what happened was for the best.) I know we aren’t in the same region, but I’m also the same age and broke up a bit ago with the guy I was about 80% sure that I would marry (until sh!t really hit the fan in a similar way), so if you want to talk/commiserate/cry/vent with someone who knows neither of you, let me know!

    24. Oh, I’m so sorry, sweetie!! It is so so hard. I wish there was something I could say that would make you feel better, but I know from experience that there isn’t. Just sending you tons and tons of {{Internet Huggss}} and do as much wallowing as you want.

    27. Oh, m’dear, I’m sorry. Please do very nice things for yourself for the next few days.

    28. So sorry. But you should savor the feeling that you are strong and can handle this. If you have any vacation days, take a mini vacation in the next week or two… even a 1-2 day trip can be helpful in stepping away from all this physically and mentally

  13. My husband is on week 2 of a six week assignment far, far away. I am coming to the conclusion that I can’t be left alone. In the last week I have:

    – locked my keys in my car
    – lost the earrings he gave me for our wedding
    – not eaten any vegetables (he usually cooks)
    – not taken the garbage out (ditto)
    – broken? the toilet
    – forgotten my building keys
    – stayed up too late watching Grey’s Anatomy
    – been a total slouch at the gym

    I just ate a pumpkin donut because I felt awful and sleepy, and now, of course, I feel even more awful and sleepy. On the plus side, it is now totally obvious how much he takes care of me.

    When we dated I was always the more independent, capable person who traveled for work a lot and was fine when he was gone, but after three years of marriage I think I have let my living-by-myself skills slide…

    1. When my fiance and I started dating and, later, living together, I would never let him open doors, carry things for me etc. “because if I let you do it, then I will get out of practice and not be able to do it for myself.”

      I will admit that, over the years, I have relented. The first thing I relented on was the opening of doors. It clearly pained him not to be able to do for me what his mom had taught him to do. Now, we each have our house duties (his are dishes, trash, grocery shopping and spider/bug killing). When he travels for business, I revert to the way I lived as a single BigLaw partner before I met him: basically like a 25 year old bachelor. But I always clean the house, taking special pains with dishes and trash, before he comes home :)

      1. Same here. When Mr. Sr Atty is gone, I’m all about too much Trader Joe’s frozen mac n cheese, too much computer time, too much trashy TV, too many drinks dates with friends.

        But the joint always looks amazing when he gets home!

    2. story of the last year of my life. I lived alone fine before I lived with my boyfriend.

    3. I say this lovingly…but pull yourself together! If you were an independent woman when you got married, then that is what your husband was attracted to, not a helpless, dependent woman. I was the same way, but then I realized that my husband loves that I am independent and likes knowing that he can leave and the house (and I) will not fall apart while he is gone. I now take the time that he is gone to do all the girly things he doesn’t like, and enjoy my super clean house!

      1. ha, thanks. It just seems like all the things that would never otherwise happen (breaking things, losing things, etc) are happening all at once the moment he leaves. I’ve given myself one more night to not bother with dinner/gym, and then I’m going to recover my independent living skills.

    4. I, too, was competent before marriage. I have been utterly spoiled. I don’t want to think about the mess that I would be in if he left for 6 weeks!

      That’s a very funny list, though. Hopefully the mishaps slow down for you!

    5. Oh gosh, hugs to you! I experienced that in a big way when I got divorced and now I’m so independent that I have to make myself break out of my own little shell. But I did lock my keys in my trunk at the gym when my SO was out of town – so embarrassing. One of my friends had to go to my house and get my extra car key!

    6. Same. My husband even goes grocery shopping and leaves me a list of meals before he travels for work now. He was afraid I would just eat cereal and waffles otherwise. (Probably would have.) I also forget to go to bed when he’s not here. I will just watch tv and surf the net and the next thing I know it is 2 am. (Darn ADD hyperfocus). My dog also gets all out of sorts when he is gone which makes it so much more obvious that things aren’t normal. Maybe you can ask him to email you a list of meal ideas, recipes and ingredients. When I say my husband leaves me a list of meals, it isn’t like “chicken and rice” it is “pre-heat oven to 400, season chicken with ___, cook for x minutes, etc.” Yeah, I’m bad if left to my own devices.

      Back in the early days of our marriage, when my husband had first moved to a third shift rotation, I accidentally put a large butane lighter on the top of the woodstove after lighting it. It melted and I freaked out. Luckily, my dad talked be through prying it off with a spatula before it caught fire or blew up. If I had to call 911, he would have heard the call and neither of us would have ever heard the end of it. I lived up to my hair color that day. Sorry to all the other blondes. I try not to perpetuate the stereotype.

      1. Funny, I do the same re: forgetting to go to bed. I am a night owl and revert to my feral tendencies in the absence of my spouse’s moderating influence. I was up until 4 last night reading/watching tv. For a few days I revel in it, then I miss him.

        1. I do this but mostly because I sleep really poorly without hubs around. I just feel way calmer in bed with him. Otherwise my mind races a lot and I get anxious. I used to have a TV in my bedroom when I lived alone to help this problem, but we nixed TV in our joint bedroom. I try to put up Hulu, which is okay, I guess, but I much prefer having him around since I go to bed at a normal time, fall asleep easier, and am just plagued by less mopiness and misery (making me calmer, happier, and more apt to sleep).

    7. Don’t beat yourself up over this. I think it’s totally normal. As we love our spouses more each day, it becomes harder and harder to be apart from them, in my opinion. I thought being married to my husband and finally living with him would make his absenses and deployments easier, but it’s actually made it way worse. Everything reminds me of him and the things we do together, so it just makes my lonliness and solitude sting that much more. I get the same way when he goes away for a long period of time.

      I try to make lists and ‘schedule’ chores to get over the feeling of not wanting to do anything. So, I will write lists for myself on the chores I need to accomplish and reward myself with TV/a sweet/whatever after. Also sometimes I find just doing things helps the time go by faster, like I know the time between getting home and waiting for a call will just feel quicker if I am doing chores or walking or whatever rather than watching epis ad nauseum of Law and Order.

      Big hugs. I know it’s good to hear the ‘pick yourself up by your boot straps’ sometimes too, but it’s also okay to know that you are fine for missing your husband and feeling less motivation without him. Afterall our spouses often bring out the best in us, yes? So, it’s only natural that we would miss them and not be our 100% selves without them sometimes.

      1. thanks Kontraktor, that’s exactly how I feel. I think instead of eating another (!) donut I’ll schedule vegetable-cooking in my calendar… and also getting another set of car keys made.

        1. The other thing you should do is fill up your calendar with seeing friends! I always feel better when I fill up my schedule while my husband is away–being busy actually keeps me more organized. Plus you get the (obvious) bonus of revitalizing those friendships.

          But yeah, totally familiar with this phenomenon (“Oh my gosh I have to change a lightbulb?!?!? How can I do this all on my own?”–keeping in mind that I regularly change the lightbulbs when he IS around). Also remember that a few dinners of crackers and cheese won’t actually hurt you. :)

    8. I’m about to move away from my fiance for a year. This made me think of all the things that we help each other do….and made me want to cry :(

    10. Thanks for cracking me up! I’m stuck at the office late and needed the laugh.

      I love that this is the perfect reversal of old school gender roles and the stereotype of the hapless man. In a silly way, maybe that’s how we know we’re finally getting a little equality in the world.

    11. Cheer up! Once when Mr. gov anon was gone, I called him, in a shrieking panic, in the middle of the night because the cat brought a bird in. And I was helpless to handle the crisis.

      Skipping veggies and staying up too late sounds more like your just enjoying serious “I can do what I want because I don’t need to worry about anyone else” time. The others are all just accidents and likely would have happened whether Mr. Leone were there or not.

    12. Ha! I can relate. I am independent to a fault, but, when DH is away I get all discombobulated. This is despite the fact that I lived by myself, out in the sticks, without even having neighbors within sight for thirteen years before I met and married DH. It is despite the fact that on a day to day basis, I am the one in our relationship who copes with the details. This is depsite the fact tht with him gone, the house is quiet, supper doesnt have to equal >meat<, and things are a little bit easier. It's now us and the dogs, with close neighbors, yet I'm scatterbrained and edgy when he's gone on a trip.

      We make fun of our dogs due to the fact tht they get all worked up when we deviate from our daily routine, and I eventually realized that is sort of what I do as well. So here's my theory on otherwise competent, independent people going a bit weird when their partner isn't around: we are creatures of habit, just like the furry critters, and when our routine or norm is disrupted, there is stress and it shows.

  14. I am men’s clothing challenged: H is a groomsman in a wedding in a couple weeks. He will be wearing, khaki colored dress pants, a white shirt, brown suspenders and a bow tie. Sadly, I am fairly certain that this semi-hipster outfit is not going to flatter his physique, but that aside… What is the proper type of collared shirt to wear with a bow tie? And, if there are multiple kinds, what type of collar is most likely to flatter a more muscle-bound guy? I just want him to feel handsome for his brother’s wedding and not feel like a goof. (Which may not be avoidable considering the suspenders and the orange bow tie… but a girl can make an attempt, right??)

    1. I think the combination of bow ties are often worn with regular collared shirts. The winged shirts are worn with tuxedos. I’ve never seen one worn any other way, so any white button down shirt would work.

      I would pay attention to the weight of the fabric when he’s choosing shirts. That will make the difference about whether he’s comfortable or not. These guys are all wearing different white shirts:

      http://ellielaveer.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/wedding-groomsmenme.jpg

      See the rest of the site for other bow tie ideas

    2. My former husband was a clothes horse. (For context: the day the NYT declared that cordovan shoes could be worn with navy suits, that made news in our household.) If I recall correctly, the kind of dress shirt he wore with a bow tie was called a “spread collar.”

      If I needed to be sure today, I would call Brooks Brothers and the Men’s suit department at Saks. They will tell you the truth.

    3. My husband is of similar physique, and I HIGHLY recommend using a personal stylist at Nordstroms. For the first time in his life, he looks amazing in well-fitting button-up and slacks. I’m not sure what they did differently, but it worked and my husband is comfortable and confident.My husband is of similar physique, and I highly recommend getting a personal stylist from Nordstroms.

      1. Sigh. We don’t live anywhere near a Nordstrom. He has the whole outfit already, all of which will be fine, but I just want to be sure about the shirt. I am going to have to go to the men’s clothing boutique here and hope they can assist me.

        1. You should be good if you go anywhere where they can do a proper fitting and tailoring, and a boutique is probably even better than a Nordies, its just that Nordies personal shoppers are free. ;o)

          And honestly, I would recommend taking all the pieces of the outfit to the boutique when looking at the shirt and get their advice/tailoring help on the whole outfit. Really, fitting and tailoring makes All. The. Difference.

          And, i live on the West coast, so take this with a grain of salt, but i have totally seen pics of guys at weddings and other things, and i’ve seen bigger guys in outfits like you describe, and they look Totes Adorable! So, it’s not true that it will inherently look bad on bigger guys. I wish I could find pictures to show you, but try to help him feel positive that he will look great and it iwll be fun, kind of like dressing up for Halloween or something and being someone else for the day ;o)

          good luck!!

  15. I want polka dot nails for my upcoming vacation time. Tacky? Juvenile? Cute? Depends on the color combo?

    1. Go Yankees! I can’t believe this is coming down to the last game of the season. And the Yankees almost NEVER win a game the day after an extra inning game. Last night was awesome. All of the sports talk shows were nuts about the fact that there are still so many races undecided on the last day. And they were also talking about the fact that Texas tanked while the A’s rose.

      The game is about to start and I have to go to choir but at least we’re getting out early

  17. What do you all think of this dress (link to follow)? I like it but I’m not sure how to wear it because I don’t like exposing my upper arms. Could I possibly wear a thin long sleeved shirt underneath? I bought this exact same dress in plum.

      1. I see a lot of shirts and jackets with different colored sleeves in the shops right now so I think this could work… I could see it with a tissue thin long sleeved tee underneath. But unless you get a tee in the exact same color as the dress, I’d repeat the color elsewhere in the outfit so it looks intentional. E.g. a mustard tee and a mustard belt.

    2. Totally! I would do a nice charcoal gray t-shirt with plum. I have a sweater dress with short sleeves, and I always wear a thin long-sleeved t-shirt underneath.

      1. Thank you for your thoughts on this. I’m thinking I’d wear it with tights and black knee high boots. Would a black thin shirt be too much black?

        1. It would depend on how dark the plum color is, but probably not. Although, my wardrobe has a lot of black and dark charcoal, so perhaps I’m not the best judge.

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