Suit of the Week: Talbots

175 Comments

1. Kat/Kate the link isn’t working.

2. I have a question of a family situation my fiancé is dealing with and what I could do to be supportive.

   My fiancé was not invited to his cousin’s wedding. He is the only one from his family who was not invited. He gets along well with his cousin but his cousin’s fiancée has the issue.

   My fiancé was convicted of a DUI. There was no accident, he was caught at a checkpoint. He was 1.5 times the legal limit. It was his first offense, he is remorseful, he attended all the classes and followed all the other requirements and he has cut back and is more mindful of his drinking.

   His cousin’s fiancée lost her brother to a drunk driver. She was also injured and almost died in the accident and lost her foot just below the ankle. She won’t associate with anyone who she knows has driven drunk or who has a DUI. For this reason my fiancé was not invited to their wedding. His parents were invited but they are not attending either. The rest of his family has no issues with him not being invited and they are going. My fiancé is really struggling with this and I want to be supportive but I’m not sure how.

   (Thanks to anyone who read this or offered any advice)

   1. I think you just have to respect cousin’s fiancee’s wishes here.

      I would encourage your fiance to reach out to his cousin to congratulate him, tell him they have your support and, if possible, to say that while he respects that cousin’s fiancee has strong feelings about DUI, he wishes he could be there to support their wedding in person.

      As far as supporting your fiance, remind him that what he did was a mistake and that he’s taking the right approach by attending classes and being more mindful of his own drinking. He can’t control how someone else will react to it, and hopefully, with time, his cousin’s fiancee/wife will come to see him for more than this particular mistake.

      1. I agree. And I think the more mature and reasonable your fiance is about the situation the more likely it will be that he will someday be able to have a friendly relationship with his cousin’s wife.

         1. Unfortunately his cousin told my fiancé that she had two relatives who separately got DUIs 12 years and 11 years ago and she cut them out of her life and doesn’t speak to them. They were not invited to the wedding either. She is very vocal about this and I know actions have consequences but I hate that my fiancé is hurting and left out.

            1. It can be very hard to watch the people we love experience the negative consequences of their actions, but I think it will be most helpful to your fiancé in the long run to help him acknowledge that this social reaction to his DUI is one of the negative consequences of his action. It may be a permanent consequence, many consequences of a DUI are permanent, as your cousin’s fiancée unfortunately knows first hand.

      2. +1 to every word of this.

      3. Yes, absolutely. Couples get to decide who to invite to their weddings. Unfortunately, one of the punishments of DUI is the social component of it. In many ways, this is part of the lesson.

         The best way for you to support him would be to love him and encourage him to say these things to his cousin – that he understands and accepts the reasons why he was not invited and sends his best wishes and love/support to his cousin and the new marriage. He should be mindful not to let it be about him (“I wish I could be there…”) because it would probably be interpreted as guilt-tripping by the bride and it is understandable that she would not want someone at her wedding that (however remorsefully) partook in the same type of activity that killed a loved one and permanently injured her.

   2. My first question is how does your fiance know all this. Did cousin’s fiancee tell him directly? If not, then people need to shut their d!mn mouths. Really unfair to both your fiance and cousin’s fiancee to create this kind of bad blood between them.

      Now that the cat’s out of the bag, though, your fiance should talk to his cousin. Cousin’s fiancee has been through something horrible and her position is understandable. But it’s going to be an awfully lonely life if she can’t ever associate with anyone who’s ever driven drunk (and is sorry for it). I guarantee you that a ton of her non-DUI convicted guests have driven drunk and just didn’t get caught. It’s unfair to punish your fiance. At the end of the day, though, it’s their wedding and their right to be illogical about their invite list. I would encourage your fiance to try his best to not take it personally and leave the door open to a better relationship in the future. Oh and def still invite them to your wedding, assuming you’re having a biggish shindig. Be the bigger people.

      1. The DUI happened on the way home from his aunt and uncle’s anniversary and several people including his family went through the checkpoint and they saw my fiancé get arrested. It’s known by everyone what happened.

         His fiancée already (apparently) told his cousin that she is free to attend our wedding if invited but that she won’t be. She is very vocal in her opposition to drunk driving and his cousin told my fiancé that she has cut contact with 2 of her own relatives because they drove drunk. Her accident was almost 14 years ago and she hasn’t spoken to either of her relatives in over a decade since their DUIs. I understand that actions have consequences but I hate seeing him so upset

         1. She is entitled to draw this line. You don’t try to fix it for him, but just support him like you would do anytime he encounters something that upsets him.

         2. I understand how upsetting it must be to see your fiance be hurt, but I just don’t think there’s anything *you* can do here. You should respect cousin’s fiancee’s wishes, at least for things like her own wedding.

         3. Yep, she is absolutely entitled to draw this line. And honestly, all he can do is suck it up like a man and all you can do is be quietly supportive and not try to fix it for him.

   3. I wasn’t invited to my cousin’s wedding because “there wasn’t space in the hall.” This seems like a better reason than that. Unless she’s specifically told you that she won’t associate with anyone who’s ever driven drunk I suspect it’s less that she doesn’t want to associate with him and more that alcohol is commonly served at weddings and she fears he’ll drive drunk and harm somebody and she doesn’t want to be responsible for that. It would be a concern of mine too, to be honest, no matter how much he seems to have reformed since the incident. Not inviting him seems to be a simpler solution than inviting him but refusing to serve him alcohol or asking him to take a Breathalyzer before he leaves. I think at the end of the day he just has to accept that it’s their wedding and they can invite whoever they want. The best way you can support him is by encouraging him to be kind and congratulate them anyway, and maybe planning something fun for that day to take his mind off it.

      1. They aren’t having alcohol at their wedding, they say because it cost too much for the venue to get a license and because alcohol through the carterer is too expensive. But she made it clear that it’s because of his DUI. She cut two relatives of hers out of her life over a decade ago and they were also not invited. I know that actions have consequences but I hate seeing my fiancé feeling so upset and left out.

         1. So your initial question was what you could do to support him and now that you’ve said three times that you hate to see him upset and being left out, I think my answer is that *you also* need to accept it.

            I think the bride is reasonable in her actions, but reasonable minds can differ. Trying to figure out if the bride is being unreasonable or not in not inviting him and cutting off contact from others who have received DUIs is pointless. You cannot control how people act, just how you act. In many ways, this is one of the ‘punishments’ of the DUI and whether fair or not, it is happening. You should be loving and supportive of him but I think you also need to accept what has happened and that this is one of the consequences, unfortunately.

            1. Spot on.

            2. +1

               I’m not sure I would refuse to speak to family members for over a decade for getting DUIs, but I’ve never lost a foot or a beloved family member to a drunk driver so I really couldn’t say. Point is, whether or not she’s being unreasonable, it’s her wedding, and her decision. All you can do is listen to and sympathize with your fiance and try to help him maintain a friendly relationship with his cousin despite this hiccup.

            3. +2

               Also know that there may be consequences to the fiance’s actions, as well. She has cut people out of her lives for their transgressions…but she may come to regret that. What if she has a child who needs an organ transplant and the errant relative is the only one with a match?

               Forgiveness is not always straightforward.

               Just be supportive and understanding.

            4. Yep. This was a horrible, horrible tragedy for her and I’m not sure she is required to be entirely rationale on the subject of drunk drivers.

               I think you and your fiance trying to minimize his behavior is counterproductive.

            5. I totally agree. Her actions are reasonable, and I’m very impressed with her for sticking to her guns so firmly. Your fiance just needs to suck it up and accept that his criminal action has social consequences.

   4. My heart goes out to the young lady who lost her brother and her foot. What a horrific situation.

      My heart also goes out to your husband, who must feel like he’s losing a cousin instead of gaining another family member.

      My general feeling is that weddings are not the place to force reconciliations. She’s entitled to her feelings (even if they are illogical and inconsistent). I think he should congratulate the couple, send a present, and continue to have a relationship with his cousin.

      She doesn’t have to be a part of that relationship, but she shouldn’t prevent it, either.

      She may come around in the years to come.

      1. Given that she lost her brother and her foot and almost died, how are her actions illogical and inconsistent?

         1. Because “emotions” and “logic” aren’t the same thing (duh).

            Because not all DUIs are created equal. Because plenty of people who are not functionally impaired get DUIs, and plenty of people who drive very impaired never get caught.

            Because if you cut “everyone who has ever driven drunk” out of your life, it will be a lot emptier than expected.

            Because unless this accident happened when she was young, SHE has likely gotten behind the wheel when she’s had too many.

            I say this as someone who limits herself to one drink if driving is involved.

            I made it clear that I ache for what she went through and (as random internet commenters do) agree that she’s entitled to her feelings.

            Maybe you need to get some perspective and not look to pick a fight.

            1. Thank you. I agree with this. The accident did happen when she was young (16) and she doesn’t drink but I do agree with everything else you said.

            2. Not the one who asked but I don’t think she was picking a fit. I find it logical actually- she was great hurt by someone who drives drunk. She would like to limit her interactions with people who do the same. She can’t know everyone who has ever driven drunk unless they self disclose, but you have proof here that he did so that is an easy cut to make. Also disagree that DUIs are different- a DUI is a DUI, its just chance that makes the consequences different. The decision making is the same.

               Also- I think yours is a unique experience that you think almost everyone has driven when too drunk- I know I haven’t and only a small percentage of my friends have at one time, and certainly over 30 now none of us do.

               We also don’t know how long ago OP’s finance’s DUI was- if it was just a year ago and he is still drinking, she may still be raw from it.

            3. Cousin’s fiancée has been pretty consistent about cutting those convicted of DUIs out of her life. And it seems pretty logical to draw the line at people whi she actually knows have been convicted rather than anyone who might or might not have driven while drunk, which as you point out would include every person that’s ever driven.

               Also, regardless of the age at which she was involved in the accident, there is absolutely no reason to assume that she has driven under the influence. I am 30 and have never done it.

         2. Because the OP’s husband made a mistake. One mistake. He wasn’t driving erratically, wasn’t obviously intoxicated, but got caught at a checkpoint. It wasn’t a habit, not an ongoing event.

            Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone has at least one situation where they can mutter, “There but for the grace of God.” The parent who leaves their baby in a hot car, forgets to close the garage door and lets an intruder in the house, doesn’t keep fresh batteries in the smoke alarm and leaves an oily rag too close to an open flame on the stove, the father who accidentally runs over his toddler with the lawn mower, etc etc. (The last was on the news, by the way.) Remember the movie, “Home Alone”? That situation was entirely plausible.

            The fiance certainly has a valid reason for her feelings. But they are rigid. Again, forgiveness is not straightforward.

            1. He blew one and a half times the limit. And all OP said was that he was caught at a checkpoint. She didn’t say anything about whether he was driving erratically or not.

               There is also a difference between accidentally leaving a baby in a car or the other things you mentioned, and CHOOSING to drink enough to put you at 1 and a half times the legal limit and CHOOSING to get behind the wheel of a car. He didn’t accidentally get drunk and drive.

            2. And most people who get caught driving drunk have driven many, many times before … under the influence.

               I was almost killed by a drunk driver who got off. When I went to give my victim’s impact statement, learning that the case was being quickly settled and the guilty party getting an expunged record, I was devastated. The assistat DA told me that they avoid taking these cases to jury trial, even when guilt is clear.

               Why?????

               Because most people who drink have driven when they shouldn’t. As a consequence, many people on the jury will sympathize with the drunk driver. They will think…..this could have been me. So they let him off.

               Your fiancé is so, so, so lucky he didn’t kill anyone. Or almost kill me. I hope one day he will realize how lucky he is.

            3. @Anonymous 7:07. Thats so disgusting, I typically think fairly poorly of humans but that really shocked me.

            4. We learned the same thing in law school. This applies to nearly all crimes involving a vehicle because the assumption is that nearly everyone on the jury knows they’ve done something stupid behind the wheel.

            5. You can’t compare those mistakes you’ve listed, which are accidents, with a grown man drinking and then deciding to drive. That wasn’t a mistake: it was a deliberate choice.

            6. Hate to say this EM, but your mindset worries me that YOU would be one of those on the jury voting for acquittal, or perhaps drinking and driving yourself.

               This is a choice.

               The decreased reaction time and decreased attention with increasing blood alcohol content that happens BEFORE loss of muscle coordination is just as concerning.

               You know, designated drivers are not supposed to drink at all. Not at all. People do not judge their level of impairment correctly…especially chronic drinkers.

      2. …and let me be very clear: I have seen the havoc the drugs and alcohol wreck. In my old age, I save my “get out of my life” condemnation for deliberate wrongdoing. There’s enough “I was stupid and screwed up” to go around.

         1. I agree with you. She thinks that drinking and driving is a choice and not an accident and that’s why she is so opposed and cuts people out.

            1. It is a choice. You are in la la land if you think your fiancé didn’t do a morally and ethically reprehensible thing by drinking and driving

            2. No. It is a choice if he was told as he got into the car: Dude, you BAC is 1.5X the legal limit. It’s a choice if he was weaving as he got to his car and thought, “Oops! I’m drunk!” It’s a choice if a friend or relative said, “You’re smashed. Take a cab.”

               Otherwise, it was a stupid mistake with thankfully no tragic accidents, other than the present social cut, which was probably not predictable at the time.

            3. You consume alcohol. You get behind the wheel. I see no accident in that, both are conscious decisions. I’m thinking you must have a DUI or be a functioning alcoholic seeing how much you defend this guy. Really cabs aren’t hat expensive. Especially with the proliferation of Uber there is literally not one viable excuse to drink and drive.

            4. EM I am really surprised at your defense of him here. This is not a mistake- everyone knows it is illegal to drink and drive. He was 1.5 the legal limit. The choice is when he is drinking, not the fact that he didn’t realize he shouldn’t drive drunk? Why in the world would we expect other people to be the ones to have to tell someone they are too drunk to drive?

               Also the fact that the OP hasn’t been fully cut out for years makes it seem like his DUI just happened- so this is all very fresh.

         2. Here here.

            And FYI – 1.5x the legal limit for blood alcohol is a significant number of drinks. It’s not like he had one drink and got behind the wheel of a car (which is still wrong in my mind)…. if he is grown average man, here’s some info….

            For a 180 lbs man – the legal limit for intoxication is reached after ingestion of the equivalent of 4 drinks (blood alcohol content 0.08%). And he was 50% above that limit, so he had drunk sigificantly more than 4, as long as his liver is working properly. And we know that cognitive skills and driving skills are affected in a man of that weight drinking HALF that amount…. just 2 drinks. YOU THINK YOU ARE FINE, BUT YOU ARE NOT.

   5. Given her background, I completely understand why she wouldn’t associate with people including your fiance for having a DUI. It’s no small matter to have almost died and lost a foot. I know it’s hurtful to your fiance (and you, seemingly) but when you have gone through such a traumatic experience like that it has a life long impact. This is a painful lesson and a consequence of making stupid decisions. I would encourage your fiance to call or send a note of congratulations to the cousin, along with a small gift.

      1. Look at it this way: He is very, very, VERY lucky that the consequence of his drunk driving is that he doesn’t get to go to his cousin’s wedding. Instead of, you know, losing a sibling, a limb, and nearly his life.

         1. THIS!!!!

      2. Also remember that on big days, like weddings, the absence of people who should have been there is particularly acute. In the cousin’s fiancée’s case, that’s her brother. I can understand taking a hard line against people who remind her why he isn’t there. It may not mean no contact ever, either. It could just be for the wedding.

         1. I wish it was that way but unfortunately she has 2 family members who had DUIs and she cut them out 12 and 11 years ago and hasn’t budged according to his cousin. It’s not just for the wedding.

            1. Are the other relatives still drinkers? My guess is yes…

               Is your husband? Are you?

               I can’t even imagine planning my wedding day, trying to find my perfect dress and perfect shoes and have to worry about finding something that works with my artificial foot. No… I wouldn’t want any drunk driving relatives around me either. Certainly not at my wedding.

               I think you are being a supportive wife, but you also need to accept her decisions and not be so judgmental.

   6. OP, I feel for the bride here and I think you and your SO will just have to let this go. You can’t fix it for him. Obviously if she’s cut her own relatives out over this she’s probably not going to let your SO have an exception. I don’t know how I would act if my kid(s) or sibling(s) was killed by a drunk driver. I hope that instead of cutting out convicted DUI offenders out of my life (because it doesn’t do any good) I would work toward DUI prevention by speaking at schools and helping to fight DUI occurrences but maybe that is just hubris on my part.

   7. I have driven drunk. It terrified me that I did that. I also know it is wrong. The behavior is wrong whether you get a DUI at a check point or kill someone. Your fiancé is lucky he didn’t kill anyone.

   8. I wonder why it is a conscious decision to drive when you are too drunk to know what you are doing but you can’t consent to sex when you are too drunk to know what you are doing? Seems so inconsistent.

      1. Yeah, anonymous at 11:29pm, and that has now become a defense to drunk driving.

      2. Because in dring driving you are the actor and in assault you are being acted upon. Not even sort of similar

      3. Actually very consistent- you just have the wrong comparison. You are still held accountable when you get drunk and go out and rape someone(or the law says you should be anyway). The decision point is not in the moment it’s before- it’s why even when a drunk driver kills someone we don’t charge them with murder, because we aren’t saying the problem was with the moment you veered into the other lane- the problem was before when you chose to drink knowing you’d be driving.

   9. I think you have to tell your fiancee that he has to let this one go. He should make every effort to keep up his separate friendship with the cousin and if I were him, I would send a gift. His cousin may need him because it sounds like this woman is pretty rigid and unforgiving which may make for a very difficult marriage. She sees people by their worst act rather than as fallible humans. And someday, she may need the grace of others and maybe he can keep himself open to be there for that moment. Your fiancee needs to find peace with this and be aware that this woman’s perspective does not define him or his relationship with the rest of his family.

      1. You really have no idea.

3. Probably a stupid newbie lipstick wearing question, but can we talk about reapplying? When I put my lipstick on in the morning, it looks great and is nice and smooth. Several hours later I need to reapply because most of it has faded but a little bit of color still exists. It seems like every time I do this my lips become all peely and the lipstick sometimes starts to get a little flaky or develops tiny clumps. It also seems to transfer a lot more after reapplication. Do I need to try and remove the first layer before reapplying? I just did that this time using a Kleenex to wipe it off. Is that the best method? Should I be using some sort of primer (or the clear liner recommended this morning) to prevent this? Sorry about all the questions. I never really wear makeup other than special events but have been trying to add lipstick to my daily routine.

   1. Wipe your lips off with one of the paper towels in the bathroom and then reapply. It may be that you need to look at other brands of lipstick. I like Laura Mercier sheer lipsticks because they don’t do this.

      1. Adding this to my list of things to try out at Sephora. Thanks!

   2. Are you using one of the matte liquid lipsticks or a long-wear kind (usually has the two-step color then gloss/balm on top)? I only have this problem when the formula is one of these. In that case, yes, remove what was left over and start over fresh. I like keeping makeup remover wipes in my desk just in case I have problems like this. For cheap lipsticks that are comfortable & last a decent amount of time, I love NYX Matte lipsticks, the ones in the normal tubes, but their soft matte also don’t give me a problem. Good luck!

      1. Hmmm, perhaps that is the problem. I’ve been using either Buxom matte lipstick or some Maybeline 24 hour colorstay stain/balm thing. They both last a long time, which I like. I’ll look into other brands. Thanks!

         1. Might be too late for you to see this, but I think this is primarily a Maybelline issue – I love the colors but had to stop wearing them because they wore off so unevenly and unattractively. I like Kat Von D’s everlasting liquid lipstick.

   3. A lot of lipstick formulas are drying, so your lips may be drying out throughout the the day leaving them peely and cracked-looking. Preparing your lips for lipstick is the key – I recommend using the Bite Beauty lip scrub and then primer before applying lipstick. If you have to remove your lipstick I recommend using a wet wipe (I have some tiny makeup remover wipes I keep in my purse) because a dry tissue may leave fibres on your lips creating a new level of flaky texture.

      Lipliner all over your lips will extend the wear of your lipstick, but it will dry out your lips even more.

      1. Thanks so much! This is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for.

4. My husband’s brother is getting married. They are having the wedding on a cruise ship. It’s an adults only cruise ship, there are no children allowed on board. We have two sons who will be two and one at the time of the wedding.

   My husband’s family are not in a position to travel all the time. For them a trip somewhere in the same state is a big deal. Most of them don’t even go outside the state (and certainly not outside of America) for things like honeymoons and anniversaries. This trip is a big deal to his family and people have saved for a long time to be able to go. We didn’t know it was an adult only cruise ship until we tried to book tickets.

   It’s a 12 day cruise and with a day of traveling there and back we would be away for 2 weeks. Neither my husband nor I have ever left our sons overnight. Since its a cruise there is no option for us to bring our sons and just stay somewhere else.

   Would you go? Is it wrong for me to feel slighted. My husband isn’t big in talking about feelings so I’m not sure how he is feeling. I know that we can afford to travel whenever we want but I’m still pissed that our sons are being excluded and we have to choose between leaving them for almost 2 weeks or not going to the wedding. All of his other relatives (by blood and marriage) are going. My husband and I are the only ones who have kids.

   1. No idea whether this is even possible, but if the wedding itself will take place within the first few days of the cruise, could you book the cruise and stay on the ship for a few days then fly home from one of the ports? You’d still be leaving your kids overnight for the first time, but at least it wouldn’t be 2 weeks.

      1. They wedding is several days into the cruise and if we only got on the cruise, attended the wedding and went back home we would still be gone for 6.5 days.

         1. Can you fly directly to the port they’re getting married at?

            1. They are not getting married on a port or we would do this. The wedding is taking place on the ship.

         2. Plus you would almost certainly have to pay for the entire cruise. I’ve never seen a cruise line that will just let you pay for the first half.

      2. If it were me, I would send my husband alone. That way, you stay with the kids and he isn’t missing the wedding.

   2. No way would I leave kids that little for two weeks, especially for a trip I wasn’t super excited about. Don’t go, but don’t feel personally slighted either. They were probably just being thoughtless, not trying to screw you over.

      1. +1. Maybe your husband goes, and you stay with the kids. Although that sucks for you, and I’d be a little upset too.

         1. I agree. I’d at least offer this option to your husband. I’d probably also demand multiple spa days in return.

            My kids are much older and I still wouldn’t be comfortable leaving them for this long. But that’s my issue (and yours). I don’t think you should feel slighted. I think couples getting married should get married however they choose, and it is exhausting and impractical to take into account the schedules and feelings of everyone who might be invited. It’s not about you or your husband or your kids. If the bride’s dream wedding is on a cruise, let her have that dream.

   3. WHAT? This is crazy. Even if you’re the only couple to have kids, it seems crazy that they would not have mentioned this to you earlier or simply chosen a cruise that allows kids. You have every reason to feel slighted. It’s one thing to have the kids stay with a friend for a day or two, but I would never leave a 1 and 2 year old for 12 days. Absolutely no way.

      I can certainly respect those who choose to have an adults only wedding or reception, but that’s for one day or one evening. A 12 day cruise is a very different matter altogether.

      I am shocked that your in laws wouldn’t have a problem with this?

      I would not attend. I wouldn’t be huffy about it though. It’s their wedding and they can do what they please. But I would certainly mention that you don’t feel comfortable going away for 2 weeks with toddlers at home. And who the heck would you leave your kids with for 2 weeks??

      1. It’s their wedding. They were supposed to not have the wedding they wanted to accommodate two kids who definitely won’t remember attending?

         Don’t go, send a nice gift, don’t feel slighted.

         1. These are his brother’s and sister in law’s kids though. I would think that if I were inviting my whole family to my wedding and it was a big deal for everyone to be there, I wouldn’t purposely pick a place where two family members weren’t invited, and where it would be a significant hardship for my own brother and his wife to attend.

            I’d feel very differently if this were an adults only wedding on a single day. This is a 12 day cruise though.

            At the end of the day I agree it’s their wedding and they can do what they want, but if I were the OP I would feel slighted.

   4. I wouldn’t go. Even absent the kids thing, spending 2 weeks of my vacation on something I barely want to go to? No thank you.

      1. +1 but I’m very protective of my vacation time. I’m probably taking 1 or 2 days for my very much beloved sister’s wedding, but if she asked me to take 12 whole days I would definitely balk, and balk hard.

         That’s without considering anything to do with kids, because I don’t have any. It seems from what I know of having kids that 2 weeks of childcare expenses on top of the cruise is too much to ask.

   5. I travel for business, so I’m not opposed to leaving my toddler a few nights with DH. We’re also going away for a couple nights in December for the first time. That said, there is absolutely no way on earth I would leave my kid for 2 weeks, especially with BOTH parents gone, particularly to go on a cruise where I couldn’t immediately jump on a plane and fly home in an emergency. Once you’re on the boat, you’re hard to reach for communication, and you’re stuck until the next port, period. No flipping way. Plus it would be really tough on my toddler, emotionally, for us to be gone that long.

      You are allowed to sad and angry feelings, but I ultimately wouldn’t take it personally. People without kids often don’t understand the burdens and restrictions of having kids, and their wedding is about them and what they want, not about you and how it might not be convenient or even workable for you. Be a grown up, wish them a heartfelt congratulations, send a gift of a reasonable but modest amount, and let this one go.

      1. This is a good point. I’d be very iffy about leaving kids that age for two weeks to begin with, but you’re basically incommunicado on a cruise ship and have no way of getting home until the next port. NOT the thing to do for a first trip away from your kids.

      2. They are childless by choice and say they never want children, which is why they chose this cruise.

         The brochure had several cruises and it didn’t cross our minds that they would choose the one for adults only, especially since our two are the only kids in the family.

   6. I wouldn’t go at all. A destination wedding, ok, but a two week cruise is ridiculous, and it’s extra ridiculous that you couldn’t bring your kids or see them for two whole weeks. They could get married at the port and then depart on their cruise if they cared about people attending.

   7. I consider myself a laid back parent who has often left her kids home with DH or other family to go out with girlfriends, but no way, no how I would leave a 1 and 2 year old for 12 days, considering DH would also be gone. That’s absurd.

      Giving them the benefit of the doubt, do you think it’s possible that husband’s brother and the other family didn’t realize the cruise is adults only?

      1. They are childless by choice and are never having children. They chose this for that exact reason. The brochure had several cruises listed but we didn’t consider they would chose the adults only one.

         1. In that case I think you have even more of an out to graciously decline. You have little kids, they purposely chose a cruise that forbids kids. In so doing, they must have expected that you may not be able to attend.

            I admit I was fairly clueless about kids before having my own (what do you mean, you can’t go out for dinner at 8 pm??) but even my pre-kid self would know that it would be a tough sell for both parents to be away from a baby and a toddler for 2 weeks.

         2. I think it’s a little silly to make this into a breeder versus non-breeder issue. There are plenty of ways to have a child-free wedding without requiring people to go on a trip that would use up all my vacation days.

            1. I missed the part where people are being forced to go. I have children and I think it’s terribly rude to complain about an event that you are not paying for and not being forced to attend. What if the couple didn’t want an adults only wedding on land. It’s their day and they can have it wherever they want, adults only or not. No one is being forced to go and telling people where to have their wedding so it’s easier for you is lacking in manners.

            2. I am a mother and this statement is way off base. You are not required to go, and you certainly don’t get to tell other people to do anything regarding their wedding. Sheesh.

            3. Ok, how about “without requiring that people go on a trip … in order to attend.” That is, I don’t think the not inviting kids thing is the most complaint-worthy thing about this wedding (and no, don’t complain to the couple, but as long as we’re complaining on an anonymous internet board, that’s my two cents).

               Totally agree that people can do what they want for their wedding and no one is required to attend, but realistically, particularly with immediate family weddings, there is pressure to attend. As long as OP and her husband can graciously decline and have no hurt feelings from the couple or other family, great.

   8. I’m a big advocate both of traveling with kids, and of occasionally leaving kids home to travel. But this is beyond crazy, and there’s no way you should go. 12 days away from your toddlers, with no way to get back home in an emergency? Not possible, don’t even think about it, and don’t feel a second of guilt over it. Just politely decline, and send your best wishes and a nice present.

      1. This. I would never in a million years leave a baby and a toddler for 12 days.

   9. No, I absolutely would not leave a 1 and 2 year old with someone (who??) for two weeks. Not just because there might be an emergency. But because of all the normal daily grind stuff of kids that age. What if one of them gets sent home from daycare with a fever? I mean, maybe if you have two young, healthy, yet retired parents who your children know well I miiiiiight consider it (which since you’ve never left them overnight, I’m guessing you don’t), but still, probably no. I completely agree with “(was) due in june” that they probably just did not think about how hard it would be for y’all to make it work. It was thoughtlessness rather than malice, most likely, and I’d try to be gracious about it.

      Could your husband go by himself for part or all of the time? It sounds like a once in a lifetime trip for his family, and if I were in his situation I’d be sad to miss something like that. Or would it be possible for y’all to meet them at one of the ports? Probably not worth it, but I’m just trying to think of ideas.

      1. +1 husband going for part of the time. I definitely wouldn’t go, but if there is a way for husband to go for a few days and spend time with his family and be there for his brother, that would be great – considering that this such a big deal for his family. Not sure how I would feel though about having husband go away for 12 days though with such little ones at home, unless you had your parents come and help you out significantly during that time.

   10. I definitely wouldn’t go.

       1. (And I have 2 kids, 2 & 4)

   11. Any chance they’re getting married at the port before the cruise takes off? My friend’s sister did this- got married on the boat on the departure day so that a number of people could attend. Then the boat sailed off for the cruise and only the people who had the time/money to join them stayed aboard the ship, while everyone else went home just like a normal wedding. Alternatively, if they’re getting married at one of the ports, fly to that port specifically for the wedding day (with the understanding that sometimes ships can’t dock because of wind/weather or that the ship might change its schedule mid-trip meaning your flights would be for the wrong day/port) and attend their wedding as if it were a weekend destination wedding.

       1. My husband asked them and they are getting married on the ship and not the port.

          1. Well, I think if that’s the case, you just have to say you won’t be able to make it. Arranging childcare for two young children for two weeks when all of your relatives will be out of the country with you is extremely difficult, and no one should blame you for not participating.

   12. I would absolutely not go on a vacation I wasn’t excited about. I’m very picky with my vacation time.

       While I agree they should have told you it was adults only from the beginning, I don’t think you should necessarily feel slighted. I’m of the mindset that a couple can do their wedding however they want. Guests do not have to attend.

   13. An invitation is not a summons and all that but… you say husband’s family have all been saving for this for a long time. They’re ALL making sacrifices to attend. If you two say you can’t attend because the kids are too little to be left along that long, I imagine the reaction might be, well why can’t OP just stay home with the kids?

       Ymmv, but I’m not sure it’s an option for husband to not attend unless you want to hear about it for the rest of your lives. I think your options are this: 1) As Sidney Bristow suggested, you both go for part of the cruise; 2) husband stays for the most/all of the cruise and you stay for part; 3) husband goes alone.

       1. +1.

       2. Given your points, I think OP’s husband should go and fly back after 1 week. OP should stay home w/ the kids. But I’m around people that travel frequently for business and solo parent due to their spouse’s business so it doesn’t seem that unusual. I know for other families, it is not seen as normal.

          1. I thought about your issue driving home and I change my mind. Neither of you should go if that’s the solution you guys want.

   14. You can’t go. 12 days away from your very young children is not do-able. It sounds awful anyway. I cannot get over the modern self-centeredness of people regarding their weddings. It’s ridiculous. I wish we could all go back to the days of a quiet ceremony in the chapel and a reception at the VFW hall or mom and dad’s house.

       1. Honestly, I don’t get how this is self-centered unless they expect people to go. Why is it a problem for people to do whatever they want in their own lives as long as they’re not imposing upon you?

          1. It sounds like they do expect people to go though, which is the problem. I basically agree with you that a couple can do whatever they want as long as they won’t be upset when people decline.

          2. I generally agree, but when you have a wedding on a ship in which the entire family is going and it’s a huge huge deal because no one has left the country and everyone has been saving up, it probably does feel like a summons to OP. Certainly OP would feel a lot of pressure to attend. I know I would.

             1. Oh, it’s totally thoughtless I agree. But it always seems like there’s a sense of “why can’t everyone else do what I did/what I want them to do” about weddings, as anona’s post suggests.

                I do get to be selfish about my life, because it’s MY LIFE. That doesn’t extend to ridiculous expectations of others or totally not being aware or not caring how your actions affect them. But yeah, I’m doing to have whatever wedding I want and if you can’t make it or don’t want to come, it’s cool. And I don’t think it has to change our friendship or whatever either. People get way too wound up about these things.

                That said, I’d be irritated if I were OP because it definitely seems like there’d be some social retribution for not going. That’s silly and it sucks.

             2. I think there can be some presumptuousness with these things, though. Not necessarily the case here, since it sounds like the whole rest of the family is on board. But you can register for whatever you want and no one has to get you a gift, but if you have a registry that only includes very expensive items, that might look a certain way to your guests, you know?

             3. I actually don’t think it’s thoughtless. Everyone in the extended family (minus OP and her family, which does suck) can hang out when they want, go see activities when they want, eat together when they want, no one has to cook or clean or worry about getting in each other’s space or figure out transportation or parking or anything because it’s a cruise and it’s all taken care of. And cruises are nice in that they are fixed costs and usually a good deal, and family members with more money can buy nicer cabins and drink and go to the spa and family members with tighter budgets can choose less expensive cabins, so everyone is comfortable, but still together. And a no-kids cruise because they don’t want to deal with anyone’s kids (including OP’s, which sucks).

                A cruise is a great way to get the entire (minus OP and her family, which sucks) family together, celebrate a wedding in the way that the couple clearly wants to do, and spend time together without actually being on top of each other.

                None of this is unreasonable for that couple. It’s their wedding, they get to do what they want. It just really sucks for OP and her husband, but I also don’t think the couple is in the wrong beyond the fact that they should have gracefully told OP directly that it’s an adults-only event and that they will really miss OP and her husband, but understand completely if they aren’t able to attend.

          3. It’s self centered because the family clearly all want to attend the wedding and can barely afford to do so, and because anyone who can’t afford to attend doesn’t get to be part of the event at all. Weddings are not just about the couple getting married, unless they elope. Weddings serve as family gatherings for most families, and it is literally the definition of self-centered to think about only what you want when planning one.

             1. + one million

             2. The OP clearly stated in her post that her and her husband travel often and can afford to, unlike the rest of his family (who for them this is a special trip) and that the issue is that it is an adults only cruise.

                Also it is the definition of self-centered to expect someone to plan their wedding around you, and for you to dictate where someone has their wedding (especially when you are not paying for it).

             3. I’m the OP. I apologize for any confusion or misunderstanding but I never mentioned anything about not being to afford it. As I said my husband and I can afford to travel often and we do. It’s not about that at all.

             4. op, I was speaking of the other family members who you said saved up to be able to attend.

          4. Because weddings are a celebration with family and friends. If you want them to celebrate with you, you don’t make it hard and expensive.

       2. I recently attended this exact wedding of chapel+VFW Hall. It was lovely and a good time was had by all. I did not think one thing more or less of it than other weddings at fancy schmancy locations.

   15. I would say no. There is simply no way I would ever leave my children for two weeks for a cruise. Send a nice gift, arrange for champagne in their room, and call it a day.

   16. Not to be snarky, but please name this magical cruise line that does adults only cruises. I am very interested in booking with them.

       1. Me too. That would be lovely.

       2. I think Carnival has cruises that are adults-only. Also, they’re not officially kid-free, but my parents have done probably 10 cruises on Silversea, and I think they’ve seen one kid across all those trips. Taking kids is Just. Not. Done. The other luxury lines (Oceania, Regent Seven Seas etc) are similar from what I’ve heard.

   17. Don’t go, but don’t take it personally. I really doubt they were thinking, “How can we screw over Anon and her husband the most?”

   18. My parents left me when I was 2 with some family friends for two weeks. It was no big deal and I barely remember it.

       1. But were they on a cruise? When you cruise there are frequently 2-3 day stretches where you have no cell service and no way of getting off the boat. I’m not sure I’d do this with a kid of any age, because it’s so difficult to get home in case of an emergency.

          1. Well, considering that this was more than 25 years ago and they went to a foreign country, I am assuming they did not call very much. Also there are no cell phones in 1989.

       2. I got left with family friends a ton as a kid, also in the 80’s before cell phones, and at least once for a solid month while my (single) mother had a job thing.

          But that was a special situation, not everyone has that kind of support network where it’s not a burden to take a friend’s kid for weeks at at time.

   19. Lol at all the parents here who leave their kid(s) in daycare and/or with a nanny all day, and who work long hours and barely see their kid(s) being all high and mighty and saying I would NEVER leave my kids. It’s sad really. Why be a father or a mother if you aren’t even going to bother raising or spending time with the kid?

       1. Seriously what stupid replies. Stupid stupid stupid everyone.

       2. Um, what? Most people HAVE to work in this country. Going on a 12 day cruise is entirely elective. Your post makes no sense.

       3. This is trolling and you’re obviously just annoyed that everyone told you to accept that a DUI is actually a big freaking deal, but whatever I’ll respond anyway. There is a huge difference between leaving your kid with a nanny while you WORK and leaving your children completely for two whole weeks while you vacation. If you honestly can’t see a difference between those two things you need your head examined.
          And nobody is even saying that the latter is wrong or bad parenting, they are just telling the OP that she’s well within her rights to refuse to go on this stupid trip she doesn’t even want to go on, and her young kids are one good reason she shouldn’t feel guilty about declining.

5. What shoes are the kids wearing with leggings and jeans these days? My daughter has blundstone boots and birkenstocks (which she wears socks with quite often – shudder) but is looking for closed toe shoes that are neither boots nor sneakers to wear on colder days. She’s 16 and we’re on the west coast. I’m Christmas shopping. I welcome all suggestions!

   1. Birkenstock clogs, maybe?

      1. She went and looked at birkenstock clogs but her boyfriend was along and said they looked like smurf shoes. Full disclosure, I don’t love the look of most birkenstocks, but I have the shearling lined clogs that I wear as slippers, and I don’t think they look smurfy!

         1. Ha, I am wearing those right now and I love them, but they are kind of hideous. I think it is all about boots or sneakers these days, not sure what else kids wear – Toms? Ballet flats? I think clogs may be coming back into style, maybe the kind with the wooden heel like Kork Ease that are kind of crunchy, since she seems to like Birks.

   2. Oxford shoes.

   3. I’m in Illinois, and the classic Converse sneakers are very popular with the high school and college students here.

      1. I am also in Illinois. My teen daughters wear Timberlands when it’s cold and Birks (can’t stand them but OK) when it isn’t. Also popular are classic Adidas sneakers. I don’t think you can ever go wrong with Converse for teens.

   4. I see a lot of high schools girls wearing classic Converses and casual low-heel booties. I’m in ATL.

   5. Sperries.

      1. Unless you’re somewhere ultra-preppy, the kids are not wearing Sperries.

         1. In the southeast they are at that age. It’s not a preppy thing for the girls. It is a little bit more for the guys.

   6. +1 I have a 16-year-old sister who wears Blundstones and birkenstocks (sometimes with socks, just like your daughter – reciprocal shudder) but is also very into lace-up oxfords and lace-up ankle boots for fall/winter.

   7. Look up “shootie.” Basically a bootie that doesn’t cover the ankle. My 15 year old is on her third pair. They come in flat, wedge, heel, whatever.

   8. Seconding oxfords — maybe in a cool color (bronze?) with perforations or other patterning / texture?

   9. Converse, bean boots

6. My husband and I had a fight last night and I need some perspective from the Hive.

   I told him he was being disrespectful by cutting me off when I say anything related to the election. Despite also being a Democrat , he also makes statements like “your party needs to…” but I’m mostly offended by his “I don’t want to have that kind of talk in my house” and “I’m not going to talk about that with you and you need to stop talking about it.” I feel like he is disrespecting my need to process and share my feelings, even if it is on a topic he has decided to stick his head in the sand about. Now he’s all like “so now Donald Trump is a problem in our marriage” and I said “no, your treating me like my opinion isn’t worth as much of yours is a problem in our marriage.” He has monologued about the election and the events but the moment I try to engage in a dialogue, he acts like I didn’t hear what he said when I was just trying to engage in a conversation with my spouse.

   He’s now stopped watching the news (CNN) because of the election results despite the fact that I’d repeatedly ask him to change the station when our children were in the room because he’d leave CNN on from the time he got home to the time we ate dinner, while one of us cooked and/or played with the kids. I

   1. (sorry, hit “post” early)

      I feel like his preference to watch or not watch echoes his desire to monologue but not engage in conversation. Basically that his wife should listen to him say whatever, but he won’t validate my need for emotional support by listening to what I have to say.

      So I don’t know how to resolve our fight, which occurred over dinner when he started making these comments in response to something I was saying to his mother. She told us to stop fighting, he volunteered to go eat dinner elsewhere, and we’ve communicated on “bare essentials only” since.

   2. Maybe you should just stop talking about the election with each other. It sounds like a frustrating and unpleasant conversation where perhaps both of you are beating a dead horse.

      1. +1, thats what we’re doing- its just too disturbing and upsetting. Trump is a problem for everyone! And turning off CNN is a good thing- you can find better news sources.

   3. I feel like part of what you need is for someone to validate your feelings by telling you your husband is being a d 1 ck. So, I’m going to tell you that I agree, he’s being a d 1 ck. Hopefully he has some redeeming qualities. In your place I’d stop talking about the election, but abso-f**in-lutely cut him off when he decides to lecture you about his views.

      I personally wouldn’t feel inclined to sleep with such a jackas, either.

   4. My husband and I have different political beliefs so we refrain from talking about politics, generally. I have my friends I can talk to about politics and he has his. But we refrain not just because we know it’s a sensitive spot between us but because we have mutual respect for one another. The problem for y’all isn’t politics, it’s respect.

   5. I understand that you want validation, but you should also respect his desire not to talk about the election.

      1. But it seems like he does want to talk about the election- he just doesn’t want her to.

   6. “We can either not talk about politics or both talk about it, but the rule can’t possibly be that only YOU get to talk about it.”

      If he claims he needs to occasionally vent, say fine, but you get venting time too. Limit it to a time period (5 minutes? 20 minutes?) that makes sense for both of your lives.

      1. +1

   7. Is the election a sensitive topic for him like it is for you? Right now there are moments I do want to talk about it (and mostly vent) and other moments I just don’t want to hear about it anymore and stick my head in the sand. I wonder if he is feeling the same way. Those times that he monologues, are you two in agreement on the topic? If so, I don’t think he’s necessarily being disrespectful he’s just limiting when he can hear / talk about it. I think a no politics in general rule is a good one for you two. Talking about the issues between the two of you isn’t going to change anything going on in the world.

   8. I hear you. I’m debating breaking up my engagement because my fiance has been keeping Fox News on whenever he isn’t watching a movie or westworld and he likes to keep TV on as background. He didn’t do this before the election, so I wonder if it’s part of the since trump got elected, it’s now okay to be openly racist and sexist movement, with his personal version being, it’s now okay to not respect the fact that I find Fox News deplorable.

      1. Maybe this is extreme but I absolutely would feel the same way. Have you talked to him about it?

      2. ugh. as was already said above, it is not about politics or trump, it is about mutual respect. If you have hesitations about marrying this guy, listen to your gut. & don’t let him gaslight you or anyone else tell you it is ridiculous to break up over something “silly.” it is not silly & may only get worse.

      3. Girl, listen to what he’s telling you. It’s not going to get better later with the pressures of careers and kids

   9. I’m pretty interested in the election aftermath- I’ve been following appointments closely and was interested in talking to DH about his thoughts.

      We are both Fiscal conservatives/social liberals-to-libertarians. We both voted begrudgingly for HRC and were disgusted with trump.

      To my surprise, my normally super non political DH told me he “just can’t talk about Trump.” It’s evoking this visceral reaction.

7. Can anyone who’s made radical moves to pursue a dream career later in life offer encouragement? I am in my late 20s and have finally admitted to myself and to those close to me that I do have a calling and that what I’m doing right now, as great as it is, isn’t it. I’ve moved from great job to great job in search of satisfaction but there’s always something missing and I’ve been stuffing down some gut feelings for a long time, only to have them keep resurfacing. I need to fulfill a few prerequisites to apply for the professional school of my dreams, so am literally brushing up on grade 10 chemistry. It feels strangely liberating and terrifying and demoralizing at the same time. Any encouragement or stories would be appreciated!

   1. I’d also like to acknowledge up front that I realize how privileged I am to be able to consider what I’m doing an option.

   2. I think it’s great you’re pursuing your dream career, and just want to point out you’re not doing it later in life! Being in your late 20’s, you could go to school, graduate, begin working, and still work for 30-40 years in that career! I’m a bit of a hippy, but life is just too short to not be following your bliss!

   3. I say go for it! Late 20s is so young. And what’s your dream career?

   4. Your late 20s are not later in life.

      1. I know, right?? I think half my law school entering class was 28 or older. It’s incredibly common to do something for 2-5 years before pursuing a more ‘serious’ career.

         1. Thanks – I guess I just feel like it’s later in life compared to all of my friends who have pursued this path as 20 and 21 year-olds.

            1. You have a lot to learn!

               I am 47 and am mid drastic career change #2.

               You should have seen how many people I met going to medical school at your age. And the oldest was near my age….

   5. I’m 36 and just finishing my bachelor’s after a radical change, and fully intend to get my doctorate, even though I’ll be 41 or so by the time I finish. Any time I feel weird or demoralized, I think about what it would be like to just tread water until retirement instead.

      1. I’m 36 and starting the pre-reqs for a 2nd Bachelors program. It’s a radically different career (also involving 10th grade chemistry) but I am so excited to NOT be a lawyer. Whenever I start second guessing myself, I remember that even if my 2nd career doesn’t pan out, at least I won’t be lawyer. :-)

   6. I may be a bit late to post but I went to grad school at 28 to change careers from marketing to education. Best decision I ever made! I love teaching and I think I enjoy it more now than if I had started in my early 20s because I have the perspective of having worked in a field I did not like for six years.

   7. My sister went back for a masters. She started the pre reqs at 28 and entered the program at 29. She’s going full time and will graduate at 31. She dabbled in a few areas but didn’t really leave a “career.” She’s very happy.

      My cousin left Big 4 accounting at 29 to go to law school. She graduated at 32, did her time in big law and is now a professor, a part time corporate att’y and a “trailing spouse” to her husband who has a career hat requires international moves every 2-3 years (she physically follows him but much of her work is remote). They have 3 kids.

      1. I’ll also be graduating grad school at 32. Not law, but I will say that late 20’s is absolutely not too late to change careers. Every day I work with clients on projects I am also grateful I had a lot of “nope!” in my previous career because it reaffirms how right this path is for me.

         1. I am 79 and finishing off a Ph.D. and I love it (most of the time)!

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