Corporette.com

Updated: Oct 30, 2018 241 Comments · by

Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Kiki Short Sleeve Peplum Top

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

Black Cap Sleeve Peplum Top: Susana Monaco Kiki Short Sleeve Peplum Top Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. I thought I'd be getting sick of the peplum trend, but I kind of like the direction it's heading in. This top almost looks like it's the peplum trend intersecting with the cropped-shirt trend, but in a very feminine and flattering way that is totally work-appropriate as well as cute for the weekend with jeans or, you know, leather pants. This one is only available in limited sizes (boo), but this Ava top has a wider range in stock. The pictured top is $108 at Shopbop. Susana Monaco Kiki Short Sleeve Peplum Top Here's a top with more size options; two plus-size alternatives are here and here. Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-all)

Sales of note for 9.10.24

Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…

RSS Error: WP HTTP Error: cURL error 60: Issuer certificate is invalid.

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. AIMS

    Hmmm… Peplums usually look awful on me b/c I think they hit me too low (or too high? I don’t even know) but I like the deviation from the norm. I’ll have to try it on if I get a chance. Maybe it will work for me.

    • Amanda

      I think they look awful on me, too, but because my waist isn’t very well defined. Because the sides go straight down from my chest, I think it makes my waist look relatively large and then just adds width below my waistline. I do wonder why that doesn’t make my waist look more defined, though…

      This top is very cute on the model.

  2. Car talk

    I am considering buying my first car. Thoughts, considerations? I want something safe and reasonably comfortable (I am partial to volvo!). Where should I begin researching price, reputable seller, etc? Should I pay cash (in which case I will probably have to buy something old and used–is that safe?) or try to finance it? If the latter–through the dealer or through my credit union or through the bank where I have my credit card or?

    Basically…I have a lot of questions. Where do I start?

    • Anonymous

      What’s your budget? How long do you plan to keep this car? How much driving do you plan to do?

    • Anon

      Just one person’s view: First things first – Decide what your own priorities are. Reliability/ safety/ gas mileage? Are you doing primarily city or highway driving? Using the car to commute or mostly on the weekends? 4 doors or 2? Toting pets/kids/sports gear? You have to first decide what you want out of the car to narrow it down and answer some of the questions you have above.

      I can tell you that I primarily use my car back and forth to work, on bad city streets (so the car can take a beating), and ended up getting a relatively inexpensive car (Honda Fit if it matters) that is perfect for me. I thought about a few models that were more $$ or larger but ultimately decided (based on some of the concerns I outlined above) that the best thing to do for myself was to figure out my priorities and try to stick to them and not needlessly buy a more expensive car.

    • CountC

      If you can pay cash, you should, unless you can get a 0% interest loan on a new car. I have always bought used cars with no problem. I am for under 60k miles on a used vehicle and that has worked for me. Buying a car that has come off a lease can work well too – you know they have been maintained and, generally, have a reasonable amount of miles.

      If you buy used, you want to look for a certified used car. Generally, dealerships have some X number checkpoint inspection that they put cars through in order to say they are certified.

      If you want to do research on prices, Kelly Blue Book (kbb dot com) is a good place to start. I also like Car Gurus (cargurus dot com) as a research tool to see if the price being advertised is above, at, or below market value.

      Edmunds is also a good tool for reviews of a car once you narrow down to the models and years that you like and car afford.

      Test drive! Test drive as much as you can. I have a particular feel that I like in a car and I have also found that some cars have TERRIBLE sightlines for me because I am on the shorter side. Those are all things you want to find out BEFORE you buy, obviously.

      • CountC

        Okay, I will add that if you can only afford a really old and unsafe car paying cash, then go ahead and finance the car. I didn’t mean it to be that definitive of a statement. I financed my first car because I was young, stupid (too expensive for me = long loan), and broke, and paid cash for my recent one (no car payment = awesomesauce).

        • Anonymous

          Although, if your credit union will give you a low interest loan, and you dont buy more than you can afford, ontime loan payments are a great way to build your credit score. It can be a good strategy, depending on your situation of course, even if you could pay cash.

          • CountC

            You are right! I wasn’t thinking about the building credit aspect as I am pretty far removed from that these days! ;)

    • Anonymous

      Edmunds and Kelly Blue Book (KBB) websites will give you info on target values for different year/make/model/conditions of vehicles, if you have specific information to look up.

      Consumer Reports usually does a car buying guide – check you local library or bookstore for the most recent copy. You can probably access it online as well, but it may be behind a paywall.

      What are your must-have features? What are you nice-to-have features? What will are the costs of ownership (insurance, state registration/tabs, gas mileage, maintenance)?

      Cash vs financing – depends how you feel about debt and you ability to make payments on the loan.

    • lost academic

      These are a lot of questions and I think your next stop needs to be a place like cars.com so you can do some reading on everything and narrow down your scope. But in terms of financing, if this is your first car I am just guessing that you MIGHT not have had much to build your credit and so financing even if you can pay cash is going to be valuable to you – get a loan for some of the cost and pay it back early. You can shop around for good rates through places like a dealer or your bank.

      I see also that you’re partial to Volvo but I’d really recommend digging into overall costs for cars and the reality of both repairs and regular service for cars. I own a German car right now, for instance, and there are many more limits on the shops that can work on it, and it can take longer to get things done for those reasons. In my previous city I used the dealer for everything and they were great but we moved and the only reasonable dealer location is sketchy as heck.

    • jumpingjack

      Consumer Reports has great ratings on reliability, safety, driving experience, etc for new and used cars. They also offer a buying service (which I’ve never used, so I can’t vouch for it).

      • Moonstone

        I’ve used the buying service. You pay $14 dollars and get a “certificate” from some local dealers with a price — less than sticker. It’s a good start to the negotiations.

    • Anonymous

      I financed part of my first car to build credit, since at the time I was 22 and didn’t have much of a credit history. If you need to build credit, a small loan is a good way to do that.

    • Anonymous

      I would not finance it if you can buy a safe, reliable used car with cash. Car loans are at a relatively high interest rate so you’ll waste a lot of money and (unlike mortgages) car loans offer have penalties for paying early. There are plenty of other ways to build credit. Putting all your spending on a credit card that you pay off each month builds credit quickly.

      • Anonymous

        Well, at least ask about early-payment penalties on car loans. Not all have them that restriction (mine doesn’t, and I have 0.9% interest rate via a credit union).

        I would also say to make at least a partial cash payment on a vehicle, even if you finance, so that when the car depreciates while paying off the loan, you don’t end up underwater. Don’t do more than a 4-5 year loan.

      • Meg Murry

        Car loans aren’t necessarily that high of an interested rate – you’ll want to shop around first. We found what we thought was the best financing deal at a local credit union, but then the dealership offered us 1%, which was an even better deal. We technically could afford to buy a used car with cash, but it would have required dipping into our emergency fund, and then if there was a true major emergency we would have wound up financing that with a much higher rate credit card – so for us financing with a lower interest rate (and putting the extra, non-emergency fund money that we had in savings toward higher rate debt) made more sense.

        Be prepared for that the dealership to try to constantly talk “monthly payment” to you instead of total price -so if you are certain you are buying with cash, keep circling back around to total cost. Be sure to clarify whether the price you are talking about is the final “drive off the lot after handing you a check for $X”, or if not what else would be on top of that price (sales tax, additional fees to the DMV, will they try to talk you into a warranty that costs extra, etc).

    • H

      Research how to negotiate and what is negotiable. I bought a new car 2 years ago (after only buying used when I had a very low budget) and I still have buyer’s remorse. Not because of the car itself necessarily but because I hated the process and felt completely taken by the salesmen. I should have done much more research on negotiating and the tactics dealerships use and how to handle them.

      • The Woman Who Had a Lexus Freakout A Few Months Ago

        +1 to the process being awful and the salesman being a pain. I bought a car by myself for the first time fairly recently. I’ve always had someone come with me in the past and am not someone who goes car shopping frequently, so I didn’t really remember how the process went in the past. Maybe you can learn from my ignorance, @Car Talk.

        I did a bunch of consumer reports research ahead of time and was very clear on what I wanted and how much I wanted to pay for it. I could have paid cash for my (used) car, but chose to finance part of it, and the paperwork part of the process was terribly annoying. If I had it to do over again, I would have done two things differently:

        1. Eaten right before I went to the dealership because the process took hours and I was starving by the end of it.
        2. Been very up front about the fact that I was not interested in getting any of the warranties, that all I wanted was the car. I didn’t realize that the “pick your payment” thing had to do with them trying to sell me an insanely expensive warranty until I saw the final bill. I then had the guy take all that stuff off and he got mad at me and was just kind of condescending and rude and treated me like an idiot for not wanting an $8,000 warranty on a $20,000 car. Uh, sorry, no.

        Also, your insurance company may have a warranty option that is way cheaper than what the dealership can offer, so if you want to have a warranty, look into that option too. I have USAA, and while I dont have a warranty through them, I looked it up and it was much more reasonably priced.

    • Anon

      When you start approaching the end of the year dealers will want to clear inventory to make room for next year’s models, so deals and 0% interest financing is more available. I bought a Subaru Impreza at the end of 2014 with 0% financing for 48 months. I would normally not buy new, I would buy certified pre-owned (with warranty) but I got such a good deal on a new one it was better than buying used for that particular. Also, I would normally never finance a depreciating asset like that, but at 0% (and no fees) it definitely made sense.

    • Anna

      If you are going to get a loan, make sure to look at lenders besides the dealer. We ended up going with a dealer loan, but because we were pre-approved through our bank, they matched the terms and gave us a much better deal that they would have otherwise (1.5%). Ours definitely does not have a pre-payment penalty and we’ll probably pay it off early, but it was worth being able to keep cash on hand while dealing with a couple years of major life transitions.

    • Cj

      Consumer reports to start.

      Carmax to try a bunch of different makes/models, and confirm what you think you like.

      Then I often check out the dealers of the car I am interested in. I search online on dealer website, then I call to confirm a call of interest is still on site, then I go to talk about it. Best is to pay cash, pre-owned but certified vehicle still under warranty.

      When you find your car, look up in Consumer’s reports to make sure that year’s model of your car of interest is still getting good reviews.

      Buy at the end of the month, when dealers are trying to make their monthly target.

      Ideally, buy at the end of the year, at the end of the month. Then you can get even better deals as practically new cars / floor models are shed.

      Trade in your old car, and know the blue book value going in, and what similar models are being sold for by other dealers (many dealers sell used cars of their brand). That’s where the real negotiating can happen. Clean it up well before you bring it in.

      For me the goals are reliability/durability, safety, and good gas mileage. Toyota/Honda.

    • Amanda

      I would definitely go to your credit union first. When I bought my first car, my credit union had agreements with dealers to have a set price (it was some % below MSRP), which was much lower than a price I could have likely negotiated. Additionally, the interest rate for car loans is generally much lower for new cars than used cars, which may make the all-in price of a new car actually cheaper, plus usually less repairs or repairs happening later down the line, which reduces your total cost of owning the car.

      I think if you can find a low interest rate loan (someone above mentioned 0.9%), that is probably worth using the loan and investing your cash elsewhere. But, definitely check on the term of the loan – prepayment penalties (credit union shouldn’t have this), required down payment, etc.

    • anon anon

      Finance through your bank for better rates and accessibility. Also gives you room to negotiate with the dealer.

      Check out and perhaps register with Consumer Reports.

      Test drive. (I’ve gone from Ford to Subaru and love it and the reliability is highly rated. Can’t afford Volvo.)

      Go on line to the make/model you want on the dealer’s page. Then figure out the model, features, extras you want.

      Go back to Consumer Reports and do it through their service.

      Take their quote and papers, go to the local dealer they suggest and present yourself and the papers.

      You go straight to purchase without negotiating.

      Easy.

      If you are buying NOW and plan on keeping this car for a long time, you can get a great deal this month on 2016 models. However, you won’t have alot of selection … and in that case, just go through the dealer and neogotiate.

      If you want a new year model, you can negotiate well in August bc the dealers want to get those new models on onto the streets.

      I used to work in fleet sales. Many moons/decades ago, long before the turn of the last century.

      • anon anon

        Also if you have a car show in your town, go to it. It’s an easy way to do some basic comparisons between different brands … otherwise you have to go to each dealership or hope that some place like CarMax has what is on your list.

    • Anon

      Try shift(dot)com if you do plan to go with the used option. They are relatively picky about the cars they sell once you book an appointment, the car is brought to wherever you request. Huge timesaver

    • ChiLaw

      Nicole Cliffe wrote a great article on The Toast about “How to Buy a Car Without Interacting with a Human.” It made me feel a bit less daunted.

      • Carvana

        In regards to this – I bought my car recently from Caravana. Super interesting business model – everything is done online. There are no salespeople. They only have “vending machines” in a few cities, but they’ll help you fly down to see the car if you want. I just picked one, bought it from my phone, and it was delivered a few days later. You have seven days to test drive and return if you don’t like it. They gave me a bunch of referral coupons for $500 off, so if you decide to go with them I’m happy to send you the code for one of those.

        FWIW, I got a Toyota Rav4 after being in a particularly nasty accident where I was driving a sedan and the person who hit me was in an SUV and would have done serious damage to my person if the timing/angle had been slightly different.

    • Walnut

      I separated the process of choosing my car from the process of buying my car. I spent a ridiculous amount of time looking at and test driving all sorts of models (I expedited some of this buy going to a car show to narrow my scope). Once I was set on exactly what make, model and year I was going to buy, I searched local dealer’s online stock. I proceeded to do all of the negotiations via email/phone and finalized the deal before I ever showed up at the dealership.

      • Trefoil

        +1 – I test drove to choose a car, then spent some time online finding a used version of the car I wanted, which ended up being in another city.

    • Rei Hino

      My car salesman brother-in-law recommended that I use truecar (a website) before I went into a dealership. It’ll show you what other people paid for the make and model you want in your area. It’ll give you a more accurate picture of what you should be negotiating for. Last time I bought a car I literally just showed the results of my search to the salesman.

  3. Anon

    I’m looking for advice on how to message my current work situation as I start to network to find a new job. I’m an attorney and started at a firm and left after three years for a government job, which essentially is an in-house position at a state agency. I really like the job, but the culture at my agency has turned out to not be a good fit, primarily because I feel like it doesn’t reward motivated people. So I’m now starting to look at private sector jobs and am fortunate to have a coffee meeting soon with a senior attorney at a large private company. But I’m unsure how to message why I’m looking to leave without sounding negative about my current job and agency. I’m not leaving for more money and I like the work. Would talking about lack of upward mobility be a good message? I’d appreciate any thoughts on how to message my current situation. Thanks!

    • Scarlett

      Be honest, don’t “message.” When I interview people and their reason for leaving is “messaged” I walk away wondering what the real deal is, and I’m way less inclined to hire that person because the interaction doesn’t feel authentic.. I don’t mean you should dump all the negative things you have to say like therapy in an interview, but be real.

      • Closet Redux

        I disagree about not messaging. No one likes a complainer and it can be read as externalizing blame behavior. When I left a job because I had a terrible boss, I said something about wanting to find an environment that provided good leadership and fostered growth. You can read between the lines, but it plays much better than “my boss is terrible.”

        I recently interviewed two people who were coming from similar situations of bad management. One messaged it as seeking to surround herself with people who challenged her to be better, the other said something about seeking an environment that was not so negative. The bottom line was not so different, but my interview team and I certainly reacted better to the person who identified what she wanted (the positive of our org) versus the person who framed it as what she wanted to leave (the negative of her current gig). Think about your messaging in that way– identifying what you want rather than what you want less of.

        • Sydney Bristow

          I’ve read that we have a cognitive bias where we associate qualities with a person that they describe others as having. So in your example, although the interviewer was describing the negativity of those around her, you now would associate her with negativity even if she’s the most positive person in the world.

          Weirdly this can be true even if you actually know the person who is doing the describing. Just another reason to focus on the positives that you’re looking for. Hopefully that image rubs off on you!

    • Ellen

      Yay Kat! I love this Peplum top — though I worry in the back that the frilly bottom will highight my tuchus? Do you have a view on this?

      Anyways, FINALLY, I can help an OP–trust me, NO ONE will fault you for telling people you are looking to leave the goverment job b/c you are looking for more oportunities and rewards. Everyone knows that the Goverment is Civil Service, and that means that everyone is carried along, like dad says, like floating sludge on the top of the water, with the good ones (like you) pulling the lazy one’s (like so many others).

      Dad says to tell them you have initieative, and seek recompense for your hard work, and that you ESCHEW haveing to carry along the bevy of losers bideing their time waiting for a goverment pension. You should tell them you are NOT interested in haveing to cow-tow to bosses who just read the paper’s all day and then go out for 2 hour lunches after stareing at (and ranking) pretty women on Constituion Avenue all day. FOOEY on that!

      Best of Luck–hopefuly they will NOT peenalize you for leaving the private sector in the first place for the goverment, as some peeople do that b/c it is very competetive out here in the private sector. YAY!!!

    • Anonymous

      The best way to avoid being negative about why you’re leaving is to be positive about what you’re looking for. Also, how long have you been at the state agency? Talking about upward mobility is fine/good, but that can be a challenge in private sector in house positions, too. If you’ve been at the agency for less than 2 years, I’d steer clear and focus on why you want to go to the private sector again.

  4. Anonymous

    What kinds of things can I say to a friend going through an awful situation (both her parents are terminally ill)? I’m really at a loss for words beyond “I’m so sorry, that’s awful.” She lives on a different continent, so showing up to help with daily life is not an option, otherwise I would definitely do that. Her parents live in my country, but not within driving distance of me so visiting them is not very practical either (and I’m not even sure they would want that). I’m planning to send her a care package but would love ideas for other things I could say or do that would make the situation better. I like to think I’m a good friend but I’m just really terrible at emotional stuff like this.

    • lawsuited

      Maybe remind her that she is strong, applaud her for the mental and emotional fortitude she’s shown so far (if that’s the case) or tell her it’s okay that she’s struggling (if that’s the case). Tell her you love her and support her, and will help her in anyway she needs and that you hope she will ask you if she does need something. Offer to assist her if there’s something that’s easier for you to do from within the country (if you’re okay with that). When my friends are going through a tough time, I just try to remind them that I’m in their corner – a text once a week saying “I’m thinking of you today”, a care package if I see something she might love, regular phone calls to check in.

    • Anonymous

      Do you have airline miles you’re not using? Maybe you could gift them to her so she can visit her parents?

      • OP

        That’s a good idea, I’ll ask about that. Although her parents are quite well off and I’m pretty sure they pay for all her trips home (she’s in a creative field and living paycheck-to-paycheck). But I know miles can be a really cost-effective way to buy a ticket in an emergency situation.

    • Wildkitten

      I know we normally don’t offer non-specific help to people in these situations (“Let me know if you need anything!”) but because of the country differences you might let her know that you’re willing to pitch in if there are things to be done you could more easily do in your country.

    • MJ

      Honestly, as someone who went through dealing with a terminally ill parent…just try to set up phone chats and text her more often to offer the chance to talk and to vent. Keep calling even if she doesn’t answer (not in an annoying way, but just to leave a text or to say that you really are here for her in terms of trying to talk). I would also send little fun cards (cheer up cards) that are not cheesy, but say, “Thinking of you, saw this and it made me think of you” etc. There are times that you have no energy for anyone but who you are dealing with. There are other times you want to rail about how unfair and awful all of it is.

      I would also say that the stages of grief are very real, and it starts with shock and not processing, and it tends to hit a lot later than the actual funeral or whatnot, so just understand that your friend will be fragile for a while. My very most awesome friends also text me on the anniversary of the death and tell me that they know it’s a rough time, and that they are thinking of me, and I cannot tell you how much I appreciate it.

  5. Opal

    Very best friend is having a horrible time transitioning back to work after maternity leave – her baby isn’t doing well at daycare, won’t eat, won’t sleep. She and her husband are a mess. I don’t have kids and she’s our first friend to have a baby.

    What can I do? What do I say? Going over/offering any physical assistance isn’t feasible. Just texts of support? Send something?

    • Manhattanite

      Texts of support and being an outlet for complaining. Validate that what she’s struggling with really is difficult.

    • Anonymous

      The first few weeks at daycare are usually a total mess for parents and kids, oh and going back to work at the same time? Emotions, guilt, everything at once! Direct her to CorporetteMoms, and find a few threads for her to read. It helps to read what others are going through.

      Send some meals over, call and text and just let her vent to you. Tell her that she’s doing her best and that is all the baby needs. Once they get a routine down, it’s going to get better for baby and parents.

    • H

      She is not alone! How long has she been back at work? For me, the first 2 weeks were the hardest (especially pumping). After that, we had a routine and got into a groove. Making dinner is definitely the most challenging so sending food (have takeout delivered, Blue Apron subscription, etc) would be super helpful.

  6. Anon

    Please tell me these shoes are interview appropriate for a public accounting firm in Denver? Link to follow. I wore them to an interview yesterday and I noticed the interviewer looking at them when I stood up. maybe it’s because I’m 5’9″ without heels so with an additional 3.5 I look really tall.

  7. Cb

    So I have an out of interview on Saturday morning at 11am, 150 miles from my house. What are the odds of being coherent / polished for an interview day that begins with catching a 5:30 train? Any tips beyond lots of tea?

    • Anonymous

      Can you stay nearby, if you’re very worried about being exhausted? Then you can sleep in.

      • Cb

        I’ve got a full on day the day before. Looking at buses though and they seem to buy me a few more minutes of sleep / a bit less stress as we’ve been having train strikes here. Not quite how I imagined my weekend shaping up but an interesting opportunity nonetheless.

        • Killer Kitten Heels

          You’d probably be better off taking a super-late train or bus to the location the night before and staying nearby. Even if it cuts into your sleep time, it’s better to have the cut in on the night side of things than the morning side.

    • lawsuited

      Unless your day usually starts at 4:30am, you will be just starting to crash at 11:30am after an early morning wake-up you’re not used to. And you’ll probably look pretty rumpled after a 150 mile train journey.

      • Wildkitten

        I’d put your interview suit in a garmet bag and change into it when you get to your destination.

      • Anonymous

        I know distances are relative — in the US (even the traffic-filled Northeast), 150 miles would be well short of 3 hours travel.

    • Anonymous

      I’d stay the night before just because I’d be worried about the train breaking down or getting delayed or something.

  8. Anonymous

    I’ve been job hunting/panicking for months. I was informed yesterday I’ve been screened in for a phone interview today. Yay! The window they gave me is 10-5. Um, okay then. I’ll wait around for 7 hours for you to call. Is this normal?

    • Anonymous

      Every phone interview I’ve ever had has been at a set time so, no, I would say this is not normal.

    • Wildkitten

      Not normal. Might it be that that is their window, and you can tell them a time within that window that works best for you?

    • ace

      Yeah, not normal. Is it an actual phone interview or a “we’ll give you a call to discuss sometime tomorrow.” If it’s #2, I would keep my phone near but not freak out too much if, e.g., the call went to VM when I went to the bathroom and I had to call back. if it is #1, that would be a red flag for me and I’d try to figure out what was going on.

  9. Going to the Big D(allas)

    TX ladies – reposting per good recommendation. Looks like I might be relocating to Dallas for a job! I’m married with no kiddos. Any recommendations for areas to live with less than a 30 minute commute to downtown? I found a great house in the Oak Cliff/ Wynnewood North area but I’m not sure if that’s a good part of town.
    I will probably need to rent a furnished apartment for a little while until I’m completely moved.
    Also, things to do?
    I’m in the northeast now but grew up in TX so I’m not too worried about culture shock or anything along those lines. Just trying to picture what life will be like and I’m so excited.

    • Dallasite

      Oak Cliff is generally a bad area of town with a fairly high crime rate, but I have heard good things about North Wynnewood and read that its crime rate is low “for Oak Cliff.” It does have easy access to downtown, but I personally would not feel comfortable living there. Lots of folks live in far North Dallas or the nearby suburbs and commute downtown. Richardson and Plano may give you the commute you are looking for, and have a lot to offer. Richardson has a lot of new development since State Farm moved in at 75/George Bush and has easy access to the main highways. The housing market is crazy right now due to businesses relocating their operations to DFW (houses are selling within 1-2 days of being listed, and some before they are ever listed), so it may be a little tough moving from out of state (I just did this myself, so commiseration). Housing prices in Dallas proper are much higher than you would get just a bit north in the Richardson/Plano area.

    • JayJay

      Ehhh….there are certainly parts of Oak Cliff that have been regentrified. If you’re looking, I’d recommend finding a place that’s close to Bishop Arts. I know a lot of people love living in Midway Hollow and around Lovers Lane/Inwood. It’s a short commute to downtown and you are close enough to the city core without the crazy housing prices. Lakewood and East Dallas is very popular with young professionals that work downtown, but the prices also reflect that.

    • Anonymous

      Ahh! No reccs but so excited for you. I just visited Dallas for the first time a few weeks ago because my sister moved down there. I just adored it. The food was fantastic and the city was lovely. There was a lot of traffic and construction through. She lives in Coppel with her two kids and her husband is a resident at a hospital downtown. She met a lot of super nice people through a running group and meetups.

      Congrats!

    • ElectricKatyland

      Welcome to the Big D! I second the suggestion about Bishop Arts and the Lovers Lane area. We live in East Dallas and find it to be affordable with a great commute to downtown (seriously – 20 minutes at the height of rush hour, 12 minutes any other time). However, East Dallas, especially around I-30, doesn’t have as many shops, restaurants, and grocery store options as areas on the other side of 75. It also depends on what you’re looking for. Richardson and Plano, etc., are great places to raise a family (schools, big yards, etc.) but I’m in my late 20s and would feel very isolated in the ‘burbs. I’m not a native Dallasite, but it’s been very welcoming. Junior League, a running group, a yoga studio, church, and chatting with my neighbors have helped me feel plugged in. Overall, I’ve found Dallas to be a great city for brunch, for being outside (White Rock Lake! Klyde Warren Park!), museums, boozing, shopping, and professional sports (I’m a big hockey and baseball fan). Good luck to you!

      • Tammy Two

        Might be too late for this one, but ElectricKatyland, mind sharing your thoughts on JL? I’ve been here almost a year and think it’d be a wonderful way to meet great ladies and get more involved in the community. However, I’m a bit nervous to put myself out there because I don’t know anyone involved in it. Would you mind terribly sharing (email works great if you’d prefer: tammy.two.swanson at the google mail)?

        OP – a few friends live in Oak Cliff and just love it. It is certainly a more interesting and eclectic place to live than, say, Uptown (where I am). Neat restaurants, cute shops, and much more affordable. It’s in the process of being gentrified so you’ll have to of course decide where you stand on that type of thing. Going to also say Lovers Lane area is a nice pick. It’s also easy and convenient to get to the airport! When are you moving? As luck would have it, I may have a lead on a furnished apartment for late August/September. Feel free to email me at the address above about that or if you want to chat more about Dallas. Welcome again!

  10. Carrots

    Ladies, looking for accommodation recommendations for Paris. Would like something fairly inexpensive and good for solo travelers. Will do either home rental (AirB&B or other companies) or hotel. Would like to stay under $100/night but would be willing to go up a little if necessary. TIA!

    • Terry

      Look in the Opera district. It’s still within walking distance of many tourist attractions but cheaper than staying right in the center of things. We stayed at Hotel Impérial Paris in December which was clean and quiet. I believe it was $115/night.

    • Aunt Jamesina

      Back in my post-college days, I stayed at the Hôtel de la cité Rougemont quite a few times. It’s in your price range, clean, and centrally located (in the 2nd arrondissement). They also had complimentary croissants and café au lait in the mornings.

      • Aunt Jamesina

        Thought of one more– Hôtel Michelet Odéon is also great and centrally located.

      • Carrots

        Hotel de la cité Rougemont looks perfect! I’m going to search around a little bit more, but I think it’s in the lead! Thank you!

    • Anonymous

      I had a great Airbnb in Le Marais for around that price- it was called Marais: Pied a Terre: Sunny, Airy. Small, but good location, good shower, easy to get around from, grocery stores around the area and walking distance for a lot of things. Check it out.

  11. REA

    I’ll be in Vail over Labor Day weekend. First time in Colorado. Any recs? I’m probably staying in a Starwood property so I can use points, so it looks like either the Sheraton or the Westin. I love mountain biking and hiking, could do some boating, and am a foodie/craft beer nerd. Would love your thoughts!

  12. Impatient

    Booo. I was told Monday that I got the promotion I’ve been working towards. I will be taking the place of someone who basically holds 80% of this particular program’s knowledge and is leaving our organization.

    In. Six. Business. Days.

    The plan, and what I was told yesterday, is for me to basically be 100% training with him every day until he leaves; however, my promotion hasn’t been officially announced, so I have to keep it quiet. So now I’m casually trying to learn everything I can/need to from this person without anyone knowing I’m his replacement… How does one do this? Seriously, how can I ‘act casual’?

    • Walnut

      I’ve been here. And my promotion didn’t come until a year later due to “politics”. And I found the salary of the person I replaced in email correspondence. SMILE!

      For what it is worth, when you’re in training with the person, make a habit of asking them to forward email correspondence on every issue you discuss. “Can you forward that” was my mantra.

      • Impatient

        Oh, I literally have a folder entitled ‘Critical Emails’ that the outgoing party saved (at my request) and transferred over to me.

    • Anonymous

      I’d focus on learning and not worry about how it looks. Just stop short of saying the job is yours. If asked, could say you’ve been encouraged go ahead and learn more about the role but are still waiting on a hiring decision?

      • WestCoast Lawyer

        Yeah, this reminds me of when I was a junior associate and would be working on an M&A transaction. Often, the target company didn’t want to send their records over to the potential buyer for review (before online data rooms became popular), so instead the buyer would have several lawyers go to the target’s offices to review things and take notes on anything that might raise issues. Usually only a handful of people at the target company would know at this point that the companies were in discussions, but suddenly there would be 2-5 junior lawyers in suits holed up in a conference room and running around the office for a week trying to look “inconspicuous.” It’s not on you to make sure no one figures things out. I’d just have a noncommittal answer ready in case anyone asks.

        • Anon

          Haha…I’ve totally been there. I once was locked in a conference room on a Saturday at a publicly-traded company on a secret floor, and the company contact had to go. I had no access to a bathroom or food (except for a crushed granola bar at the bottom of my bag). I bailed after seven hours. Sorry! Even M&A attys need access to facilities.

          • Impatient

            HAH! This isn’t quite that bad. It won’t come as a surprise that I’m moving into this role, but still… I have new staffers who don’t realize that I’m about to be their boss and I’m trying to just be ‘helpful experienced colleague’.

            It’s not quite crushed granola bars and no facilities breaks…

  13. Anonymous

    I’m hosting a last minute thing tonight, any recipes for easy and fast nibbles? Not a dinner, but snacks

    • Emmer

      Raid the Trader Joe’s frozen app section. Also, slice a baguette, spread some goat cheese on it, toast in the oven, top with fresh basil and a roasted red pepper (use jarred if you don’t have time to roast them yourself).

    • CPA Lady

      For something fiddly, this is one I like:

      -dried apricots
      -herbed soft cheese (a mild goat cheese is good)
      -pecans toasted in the oven for a couple of minutes

      Put the apricots on a tray, put the cheese in a ziploc bag and clip off the corner, squeeze dollops of cheese on each apricot and top with a toasted pecan.

      For less fiddly, get frozen mini quiches and bake. Or clip up bunches of grapes and put next to some cheese and crackers. Or you can get those meat wrapped cheese sticks in the fancy meats and cheeses deli case. Or hummus in a bowl with pita chips arranged around it.

      I really miss throwing cocktail parties. Sigh.

    • Diana Barry

      Good cheeses, baguette, salami if you like it, fruit plate, olives, done.

    • Veronica Mars

      Wrap crescent roll dough around brie and bake. Serve with crackers and apple slices for dipping. You can also add any flavor of jam, or honey.

  15. Anonymous vent

    Does anyone else get discouraged about living in a high cost of living area?

    My fiancé and I met in our first year of undergrad. We have been together for nine years, engaged for four and are getting married on our 10th anniversary next year. We’re both getting discouraged about home ownership being years and years away for us (if we are lucky enough to ever be able to afford a home here at all).

    The place where we live has the highest cost of living in America. We both grew up in a different state in a place that has the lowest cost of living in America and our families still all live there. We don’t want to move, we like where we are now, we’ve both lived here since we started college and our jobs and friends are here. But we still feel discouraged.

    We both had partial scholarships for undergrad and law school and have good jobs now so our financial situation isn’t terrible, but I still get floored every time we go home to visit family. Our yearly bonuses are more than what most of our family members make in a year but they are all living comfortably and can easily afford things like home ownership. My fiancé’s sister is a SAHM and her husband makes about $35,000 a year and they are not struggling by any means. My cousin just bought a house that needs a bit of touch up work but is by no means dilapidated for under $100,000. Most of them have low stress jobs and no one has a commute of more than 25 minutes.

    Like I said we don’t want to move and I realize that this is a first world problem and that I’m being a bit of a baby. I recognize that my fiancé and I are fortunate to have our health, good jobs and an okay place to live (even if we are renting). Our financial situations are okay and our student loan payments are manageable. I just needed to vent. Thanks if you read it.

    • Anonymous

      Yeah, I was in your shoes a couple of years ago. We left and moved to the low cost of living area. There are definitely pros and cons to every area and there are many things we miss about the HCOL area, but I really can’t overstate how much we love our house and being homeowners and how much pride I feel in owning a house that is larger and nicer than the one I grew up in. Like your relatives, my DH and I each make less than a BigLaw senior associate bonus, but we are very comfortable and if either one of us lost our job, we would be completely fine financially. Feeling like I work because I enjoy my job and want to work (ok, and because I want the money for nice vacations) as opposed to feeling like I work because my salary is needed for half the rent has really done wonders for my mental health.
      This is not to say everyone has to own a house – I have plenty of friends who are happy in apartments or buying $1 million condos, and their lives are objectively great too. But if you are really feeling discouraged and sad about it, it might be a sign you should move to a L(ower)COL area. It doesn’t necessarily have to be the place you grew up – it sounds like you are in a place like NYC/SF and there are loads of places that are cheaper than those areas (but of course there are lots of benefits to having family nearby, especially if you want kids!)
      Totally unrelated to your post, but I just wanted to add that I think it’s so romantic that you’re getting married on your 10th anniversary!

      • Anon.

        Yeah, I agree.

        Lots of rambling thoughts here — My husband and I also grew up in LCOL cities, and moved to a HCOL city after college for jobs/friends. Every time we went to the LCOL cities where we grew up, we’d salivate over housing options, schedules that seemed slower, and having family close. But, we never quite got enough motivation to move. 10+ years later, and we are firmly (firmly!) entrenched in our HCOL city. My husband fell into a practice area that is only available in similarly sized cities. I love our life, and what we have here, but I still wonder if we made the correct choice. On one hand, we have tons of options and great schools for our kids, but the pace of life is frenetic here. I’d like to stay home with our two kids, but that’s really hard financially and viewed poorly in this city (so I’d worry about coming back). Husband works a ton of hours, and things that we grew up doing (spending lazy summers at the pool, traveling on longer trips) just aren’t feasible from a timing or financial perspective. Just this morning, I was lamenting that my kids have to spend the summers in daycare, and that spending a few weeks at our family’s lake (glorified camping) isn’t a reality for my kids, which is how I spent my summers.

        Objectively speaking, we do very well, and own a lovely and (relatively) expensive home. 10 years ago, I remember feeling like you do now, and thinking home ownership was out of the question for us in our HCOL city. But we made some smart decisions, and took “big” jobs when we were just out of law school, and eventually were able to buy a home. Still, our expensive home, the price range of which would be a mansion with tennis courts where we grew up, has one bathroom, a galley kitchen, and is on a busy road. My husband is in a field where he could do very, very, very well one day, but that’s a distant thought right now.

        If I’m being honest, I think we could have had everything we have now, but at a reduced pace, with more options for me to “lean out” while our kids are young in the midsize Midwest city where I grew up. I felt a lot of pride about being able to “make it” in this city without help from my parents, and we have a ton of really, really good friends in this city that actively discouraged us from leaving. I think that prevented us from ever really pulling the trigger on “going home.” Now that we are here likely for good (see, husband’s practice), I realize that was short-sided, and still fantasize about going back to my city, buying a house in cash, and slowing way, way down. So, I guess my advice is to figure out what you really want, and even if your friends side-eye you, make the change while you are still “young” enough to do so.

    • Anon for this

      I read it and I’m with you! I don’t live in America but in the HCOL city in Canada. Literally every damn day the media talks about how house values are rising by X extreme number per day etc. It makes me feel pretty helpless.

      • Trefoil

        Your city is our dream, but LCOL is keeping us in the rectangle, at least until student loans are paid off. urs terrifying.

    • Anon

      First of all, it sounds like you’re really romanticizing the way your family is living and conflating several different issues. Low stress jobs and short commutes are not necessarily a given in LCOL areas. Also, what happens when the HVAC unit goes out on that $100k house? Those are still $5,000 to replace. Not an easy pill to swallow on a $35,000 a year salary. Believe me.

      Second, would it help if you re-framed your living situation in your mind? I know the common wisdom is that buying is better than renting, but seriously, I don’t think that’s true at all. When you are renting you are not throwing money away. You are paying for flexibility, location, and for major emergencies to be someone else’s problem. What if you just came to peace with the fact that you may never be a homeowner? Maybe its not really even something that you want, you just assume it is because that’s how your family lives. And if it never stops being your dream, you dont have to stay in the VHCOL area your whole life. Maybe you can be a first time homeowner at age 50? You never know.

      I have the life in the LCOL area that you described, except my husband and I make about $150k combined. It’s wonderful and we feel like we live like kings. But there are a lot of things that are not available here that are where you live (presumably, otherwise why would you stay there?). My sister lives in the Bay Area, and just has a completely different lifestyle than I do. Cultural festivals, amazing restaurants, perfect weather year round, everything is just totally different.

      • A.non

        Oh, I assumed that people who do well on a $35K/yr salary in a LCOL area have an extended network to help with babysitting, home repairs, hand-me-down baby items, etc.

    • Dulcinea

      Thank carefully and examine your reasons for wanting to own a home. There has been a huge effort by government and mortgage industry to sell home-ownership as “the American dream” and to make it seem that everyone should be striving for it. In reality, economically, it does not always makes sense for people to own a home (and not just because they can’t “afford” it in the traditional sense), there are a lot of hidden costs and pitfalls and disadvantages. I am not saying you shouldn’t want it, I am just saying ask yourself if you want it for the right reasons and you might feel a bit less discouraged. I get the sense that a lot of people feel embarrassed if they haven’t “achieved” home ownership by a certain point in their lives but social pressure shouldn’t be a reason to make such a serious financial decision. Anyway, just give some more thought to it.

      • Love Being a Homeowner

        Just to counter this, I haven’t found there to be any hidden pitfalls or costs to home ownership. We bought a newer but not brand new (~15 years old when we moved into it) home with a newer roof, had a great inspector and in the four plus years we’ve lived here we have had zero surprise maintenance (knock on wood). Sure, the annual upkeep of a home is more than a condo or apartment (we have to pay to have our furnace & AC inspected annually, our gutters cleaned, etc.) and homeowner’s insurance costs more than renter’s insurance but these are expected costs and are fairly negligible in the big scheme of things. We don’t spend even close to 1% of our home’s value on annual maintenance and I doubt that will change even when big things that we need down the road (e.g., a new roof) are factored in, because the many years of almost no maintenance will average out.
        I don’t know… I just feel like it’s trendy now to say “home ownership is so overrated!” and I don’t think it’s overrated at all. It is not for everyone, perhaps, but for me it has been a fantastic experience and one I’ve been lucky to have. I feel like it’s doing the OP a disservice to just brush it off as “home ownership isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.” For some people, it is.

        • Anonymous

          You are in the minority. Unexpected costs happen, even in a newer house. Like when any number of fairly high ticket items stop working, like the garage door, water heater, HVAC, etc. Or there’s a hairline crack in the tile in your shower that’s been slowly leaking inside your wall and now you need mold specialists to come out before you can even start to get estimates to have a working shower again. Or you have a surprise hail storm in May that destroys the siding on 3 of the 4 exterior walls on your house, but your insurance company will only replace the siding on the damaged walls and the color is off just enough so that it’s noticeable but not enough that your mortgage company will go to bat for you with the insurance jerks.

          • Anonymous

            Why would your insurance company pay to replace a wall of siding that isn’t in any way damaged? That doesn’t seem like a jerk move at all to me. If you really can’t live with the slight color difference you can have it repainted for a pretty trivial amount of money or even do it yourself.

          • Anonymous

            What? You don’t paint siding. That’s kind of the point of siding. And in any event, painting an entire house is not a trivial amount of money, you’re talking several thousand.

          • Anonymous

            It’s a jerk move because insurance is supposed to put you back in the position you were before the covered event, i.e., in a house with uniform siding. Not having uniform siding can impact the value of the property, which is why you’d involve the mortgage company.

          • Anonymous

            Yes, you can paint vinyl siding. There are paints at all the big stores that are specifically designed to be used on vinyl siding and I have friends who hated the color of their house who repainted the siding rather than re-siding the house, because it was cheaper. And you should be able to choose your new siding to match one of the available vinyl paint colors so you only have to paint one wall, not an entire house. Having one exterior wall professionally painted is <$500 in my area.
            Not saying I would do this – I would personally just live with the difference and save the money and time spent figuring this out. But I think you're living on Mars if you think an insurance company is being unreasonable for not replacing something that is in perfectly good condition just because the color doesn't match other parts of your house perfectly. I've heard plenty of insurance company horror stories but this just isn't one of them.

          • Anonymous

            100% agree with this. Saying this is the kind of thing that almost always bites you in the karmic a**. $10 says you come home tonight to a leaking hot water heater (so no hot water, and maybe no water at all if you have to shut it off), that ruins some of your hardwood, and it’s only partially covered by insurance (because the hot water was just normal wear and tear). And while replacing it, they discover some random lead pipe you didn’t know existed, but now you have to have abated. How do I come up with this scenario? Because I’ve lived it.

          • Anonymous

            “It’s a jerk move because insurance is supposed to put you back in the position you were before the covered event, i.e., in a house with uniform siding.”

            Well – no. I would think this comes down to the wording in your coverage. You could also interpret the insurance company as restoring you to the point of having undamaged siding. Color match is cosmetic and does not affect the function of the siding. It could be as much the result of normal wear and tear (sun bleaching) as being different dye lots.

      • Dulcinea

        Aside from repairs, there are factors such as opportunity cost (makes moving for a great new job more challenging, plus is might not appreciate as quickly as stock market or other investment, plus is lowers you liquid assets). Now you might think “but we’ll never want to leave this city” and I say to you that you have no idea what your future might hold and you can’t be sure something you can’t even conceive of won’t change. Also, if one borrower dies or loses job it can be harder to get out from under house than to terminate a lease and move to a cheaper apartment, taxes can be unpredictable, they re-did the flood maps and suddenly your insurance goes way up AND it’s harder to sell the house. Or one of you becomes disabled and needs expensive accommodations built into the house.

        I work with people facing foreclosure so obviously I see a disproportionate number of people with bad situations, but the point is there are more risks then you are lead (by the government and lenders and popular culture) to believe.

        Again, all I am saying is, it absolutely can be great (it’s working so far for me and my partner) but it is not the be-all end-all that it is portrayed as, and there are far more advantages to renting than many people believe.

    • Snick

      Heading to Seattle for a family vacation next week! It’s our first time there. We’ll be staying in Queen Anne. Any recommendations for cafes, bakeries, chocolate, brew pubs, easy hikes, things we shouldn’t miss?

    • Mindy

      Also just wanted to add that if you’ve been together since undergrad, and relatively junior, you’re in the thick of things. Just a few short years ago I felt like you in NYC as as stared down my $180k in loans.

      Now that I’m on the flip side, with positive net worth, and most of my loans paid off, while fabulous home ownership is far off, between biglaw raises and diligent saving, moderate home ownership looks like a real possibility.

      Hang in there! Ask yourself what you really want. I too wondered why I had worked so hard in school to “achieve” and whether I really wanted to be a grunt litigator slaving away on 5th Avenue to pay off loans.

      5 years later, I love my career/work, enjoy my relatively short commute within manhattan and am saving up to buy.

      • Anonymous

        I agree with this. Just three-four years of a $150k salary (or a $300k salary if there are two of you) can make the difference between no savings and lots of student loan debt and enough for the down payment on a $1m+ home. You’ll get there. Three years ago (at 27), all my friends who weren’t millionaires were talking about leaving the bay area to buy homes in cheaper places. Now (at 30), most of my friends have bought townhouses in prime locations like Mountain View or single-family homes in slightly desirable locations like south San Jose. You WILL get there!

    • anon-oh-no

      yes, we were like this a number of years ago when DH and I lived in NYC, right out of law school. We were so frustrated that we couldn’t afford to buy anything in the city and couldn’t save much despite making what most people would consider lots and lots of money (he was BigLaw at the time and I was clerking, though it was 2003-2006, so starting salaries were less than now).

      We moved. Still live in a HCOL City (Chicago), but its so, so much less expensive than NYC. We own a 5,000 sf single family home in the city and paid less than we could buy a 2 bedroom condo in NYC.

        • anonymous

          When did you last live in Chicago? Rent prices have shot up since 2009 and it’s in the top 10 of expensive cities.

        • Aunt Jamesina

          I’d consider it LCOL for a major US city and its amenities, but it’s HCOL compared to most of the Midwest. It’s all relative!

          • Anonymous

            I don’t think Chicago is LCOL for a major US city. It is cheaper than SF, LA and NYC but more expensive than Houston, Atlanta and plenty of other “major” cities.

          • Aunt Jamesina

            @anonymous: I guess I think of it as a big-city metropolis experience (no need for a car due to extensive public transit, largely walkable, compact, mixed-zoning neighborhoods) in a way that cities like Houston and Atlanta generally aren’t. It’s also significantly larger than Atlanta.

        • anon-oh-no

          I guess its relative, but when talking about HCOL vs LCOL in the US, it’s considered HCOL. you’re right that it is a lot less expensive than NYC, LA, SF etc. But that is my point. There is a range of high cost, low cost, and everything in between.

          There is also a big, big range throughout the city itself. We live in a good neighborhood with a good public school. A comparable home in a more upscale neighborhood would be $2-2.5M. A comparable home in a less-upscale neighborhood would be $7-900k. We paid somewhere in between the two.

          Things like mani/pedis, dry cleaning, shoe repair are more expensive here than in NYC. So is gas and sales tax. Groceries are less expensive. High end restaurants are the same here as in NYC, but NYC basically has no range — a burger is gonna cost you $20 at least anywhere other than McDon@lds. There are many good restaurants in Chicago that wont cost $100 for two people. 10 years ago, I couldn’t say that in NYC.

    • Anonymous

      I know this is the kind of thing people don’t want to hear in your situation, but honestly, home ownership isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. Esp. if you can find a place you are happy to be renting. I seriously miss having other people be responsible for maintenance and repair. And I know that I would be making as much money in the stock market, if not more, just waiting on my house to appreciate. There’s is nothing wrong with renting!

    • Sydney Bristow

      I totally understand. We live in NYC and I have substantial student loans. When we last moved, we considered trying to buy but it’s out of reach. I try to focus on the flexibility we have. We love our current apartment but if either of our jobs moves our commutes could wind up being a disaster. If that happens, it’s much easier for us to move to a better location than if we owned.

      Unlike you, we are planning to move, but not for at least 10 years. So I can hold on to the fact that we’ll likely buy a home down the line. The downside is that the place we plan to move to be close to family has become a really hot location to move and we might be priced out there too…

    • Anonymous

      So with you! Im not sure how it came to be that as professional couple with no kids, no debt, graduate degrees, and full time jobs cant even afford to rent a one bedroom in the city we work in. Im not even sure i want to own a home, but im starting to get really angry that i cant even afford a bedroom door. But, also cant quite bring myself to leave. Not sure what the solution is, if you figure it out, let me know! Major commiseration though.

    • GCA

      I am with you; we are not rolling in dough by any means, but also live in a HCOL area and grew up in LCOL areas/ LCOL city in another country that became a HCOL one over the years. But imagine – it is worse for low-income workers. Restaurants and coffee shops still need service staff, who are priced clean out of the area and might have nightmare commutes just to stay afloat.

      I agree with PPs that if you are relatively junior, things WILL look up. Maybe sketch out a plan of where you’d like to be in five or ten years.

      Also, this: “So it turns out you can get richer simply by moving to where people are poorer. That is horrifying. And some might find it insensitive to praise the virtues of living a middle-class life in a region beset by deindustrialization and poverty, where the low cost of living is enabled, in part, by the difficulty so many have in scratching out a living.”- http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/low-overhead-life/480612/

      • Anonymous

        There is so much truth to your final paragraph and The Atlantic article. I grew up in a small town outside Pittsburgh. My father worked in manufacturing (blue collar) but had a steady job and was (for that area) miraculously non-union. My mom stayed home. But yet because the cost of living was so low, we lived in a really nice 5 bedroom house, I did lots of activities and we were country club members. But monthly country club dues were like the equivalent of what I now pay for a YMCA membership in my HCOL city. So it really is all relative.

    • Anonymous

      I empathize, and also disagree with people who say it gets better. We live in a very HCOL area. I am a biglaw senior associate and my husband also makes low 6 figures. We have one kid, no debt (our only debt ever was my law school loans, which were $160k that I paid off in 2 years). We are pretty frugal — we drive 15 year old cars, eat at home except for a couple of times a month, vacation rarely, don’t have cable, etc. — and save a lot. But I doubt we will ever buy a house as I can’t get comfortable with a $7500 a month mortgage, which is the going rate in our area for a 1000 square foot house that doesn’t need to be completely gutted. I fantasize about quitting my job and moving somewhere cheaper and buying a house for cash.

    • Canadienne

      I think its all relative. I live in a MCOL city. On my street in the trendy gentrified neighborhood a 1 bed condo equivalent to my apartment is about 450k+ then add on condo fees of 500-1000 a month. My rent is 1000 a month (due to getting a score and renter friendly laws in my city). Buying would triple my expenses. If I were looking at a free standing home I’d be well into 1 million +. Buying is really more of a status symbol than a good financial decision.

    • Solo

      Totally valid feelings. I went from Boston to NYC back to Boston in the span of ten years, and now live in a wonderful outdoorsy place with lots of culture (technically a small city), and I will finally pay off my loans next year without a second income. Then it’s on to savings and down payment for a house I’ll be able to afford.

    • Little Red

      Besides all that has been said, home ownership can tie you down to one place. Think of all the people who couldn’t move on to find other jobs because they are underwater in their home mortgages after this recession. Also, mass home ownership may become a thing of the past now that job security is a thing of the past. Back when, you could reasonably expect to spend your career with one employer in one place, it made sense to tie yourself down to one location via home ownership. But with job insecurity/outsourcing/gig economy, it’s not such a rational option anymore for many people.

    • Veronica Mars

      Not yet. I refuse to play until it cools down. I’m not going out in 100 degree weather. And I consider driving around to be cheating, so… I’ll get on the bandwagon in the wall.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      I’m playing and really enjoy it. Not sure if I would be considered obsessed. Compared to my friends that don’t play, I am. Compared to people playing on Reddit, I’m a novice. I’m level 15, highest CP is 1254 and I have caught/evolved/hatched 58 unique ones. (Pokedex). I’ve also become friends with a coworker through the game. She plays too so we walk at lunch.

      • Baconpancakes

        Man, this makes me so jealous of city Poké trainers. I just barely leveled to 14 but my highest CP is 895.

          • Baconpancakes

            Yep. I just caught enough Evees to evolve one yesterday, but otherwise, I’ve been powering up as much as possible based on the limitations of stardust (because there just aren’t enough to catch near me).

    • anon anon

      Try not to kill, injure yourself or anyone else. My neighbor had a car plow into her garage. Not good.

    • emeralds

      Yup. Love it. Such great motivation to get out for a walk on my lunch break, and I’ve even stumbled into some useful networking in the park by my campus. It’s also helped me and my BF explore new areas and go for walks/adventures after work, instead of parking on the couch with Netflix. We’re competitive with each other, too, so that adds a fun dynamic (I’m winning, obvi, but then I’m #pokeprivileged because my desk is in range of a Pokestop and the collegiate youths put lures on it at least two hours a day). I didn’t play or watch Pokemon growing up, so it’s been really cool to see all of the cute little critters. I’m level 19 and my highest CP is a 1296 Flareon, but I’m hoarding my big evolutions until I hit 21. 69 accomplished in the Pokedex.

    • Meg Murry

      No, but only because I am already to distracted by all the other things on the internet and my phone – I’m pretty sure I would have to give up sleeping to allow for another addiction. I’m also afraid I’d blow through all our shared data in a flash and my husband would be super ticked.

      I do enjoy driving around with my son (he’s 9) and listening to him comment every minute or so “People playing Pokemon Go, people playing Pokemon Go, person about to walk in front of our car because he’s not paying attention while playing Pokemon Go, person that just stepped in a giant puddle because he’s playing Pokemon Go and not looking where he’s going.” etc. We’ve seen some pretty funny people doing stupid things while staring at their phones.

      • emeralds

        I walked into a tree a few days ago. In my defense I’ve done that a few times pre-Pokemon.

      • Anon

        I was walking around a somewhat-busy area a few days ago and happened upon a mom and her two kids. One of them is about 7 or 8 and has what I assume was his mom’s phone, playing Pokemon Go. The other kid is an older toddler- maybe 2 and a half or 3? The older kid is not paying attention and the mom was trying to hold both of their hands and carry a diaper bag and toddler’s backpack. Toddler does a normal-toddler-thing and attempts to break free to run over to a puppy. Mom drops Pokemon-er’s hand to catch toddler (which she did) and older kid very nearly avoids walking into a stoplight pole.
        Mom saw this and, to her credit, responds by taking the phone, putting it in her bag, and telling him that if he can’t watch where he’s going himself, he can’t play Pokemon and that maybe it will be good for him to put the game down for seven seconds and actually engage. I felt bad for the mom, she seemed like it had been a very rough morning (it was pre-10 AM at the time).

    • Shopaholic

      I’m grumpy about Pokémon because people either walk insanely slow in front of me or walk into me because they’re not watching where they’re going (and then blame me) so I haven’t gotten into it yet but maybe I’ll have to start so I can be less grumpy about it…

      • lawsuited

        People have been doing this to me as long as there have been smart phones. I think people get as distracted by writing/reading a text or looking up something on the internet while they’re walking as they do by playing Pokemon Go.

    • anon prof

      Totally! It’s the first computer-type game I’ve ever really played, and it is so fun. I love how much it motivates me to walk, and it gives me something to talk about with my kiddo. I’m tempted to ask for my office to be a Pokestop.

  17. Baconpancakes

    Anyone try the Betabrand yoga trousers? For grad school, they seem pretty pro, but if they look schlumpy in real life or get ragged quickly I’m less interested.

    • Amanda

      I have the bootcut black dress pants, and I get tons of compliments when I wear them at work. My office is the upper end of business casual (e.g., men wear long sleeve button down shirts and slacks but no ties). I’ve worn them a handful of times without seeing a difference in quality – I handwash them with Dreft.

    • MKB

      I found that they snagged easily – one pair got a snag almost immediately from my cat, and the other got one within the first 5 wears at the inner thigh, where it rubs.

      • Anony

        Misread “first 5 wears” and thought you wrote “first 5 YEARS”, I was like “WOW those are some high standards for clothing!”

    • LAJen

      I tried them and they promptly went back. They’re far too curve hugging for my body type (hourglass, junk in the trunk).

    • Anonymous

      I love them but I’m also lanky and have a straight build. They do free returns, though.

  18. Snick

    Reposting as new comment – We are heading to Seattle for a family vacation next week! It’s our first time there. We’ll be staying in Queen Anne. Any recommendations for cafes, bakeries, chocolate, brew pubs, easy hikes, things we shouldn’t miss? Thank you!

    • BankrAtty

      I live in Seattle; some of my favorites:

      La Rev for pastries (Queen Anne)
      Macrina for more pastries (Queen Anne)
      Seattle cider/Two Beers Tasting Room (SODO)
      Hike at Discovery Park (Magnolia) and/or Carkeek Park (Ballard)
      Golden Gardens Beach is great at sunrise and sunset (tho crowded) (Ballard)
      Alki Beach (West Seattle)
      Sculpture Garden and waterfront park/walk (Queen Anne)
      Kerry Park (Queen Anne) followed by Betty Bowen Park and ice cream at Molly Moons
      Billy Beach for sushi (Ballard)
      Lots of breweries in Ballard and Fremont — Peddler (Ballard) is probably the most “family friendly” thanks to a large patio and patio games
      Canoe/Kayay/SUP rentals on Greenlake

    • Libby

      I have many recommendations! Most of mine are north of the Ship Canal, but easy to get to from Queen Anne. You’re picking a great time to visit!

      Bakeries:
      – Coyle’s Bakeshop in Greenwood
      – Cafe Besalu in Ballard

      Chocolate
      – Theo’s in Fremont. Go on the factory tour. The weekend ones book up, you can pre-reserve your spot. Go to the gift shop and try every kind of chocolate they have. Buy chocolate bars for everyone back home.

      Breweries
      – Reuben’s Brews (Ballard)
      – Stoup (Ballard)
      – Fremont Brewing

      Not breweries, but excellent beer
      – Brouwer’s
      – Chuck’s Hop Shop (in Greenwood and the Central District)

      Easy Hikes
      – Discovery Park has a wonderful 3 mile loop, and you can add on a couple miles to go down to the beach and see the lighthouse

    • RM

      Discovery Park is a great place to walk around for a longer urban hike environment. In Queen Anne, Kerry Park is small but has a playground and classic Seattle skyline views. El Diablo on Queen Anne Ave. has long hours and great coffee and coconut bread. Via Tribunali has good pizza. Top Pot Doughnuts is a classic Seattle stop, as is Molly Moon’s ice cream (the last three places are all within a block of each other, a few blocks off Queen Anne Ave on Galer St). There are a half dozen decent pubs on Queen Anne Ave also. If you venture down the hill to Pike Place, Pike Place Chowder is great (better than Ivars) and Lowell’s has good lunch. Beecher’s is also a good lunch place if you like grilled cheese and cheese in general.

    • Anon

      Another Seattleite checking in!

      Everyone else’s suggestions are great so far. The Annie’s Eats recommendations are good, except for that I’ve had meh food at Vios. Not bad, but I don’t think I would consider it a must-go Seattle location.

      Breakfast:
      All the pastry shops mentioned so far.
      Toulouse Petit for brunch- get the beignets. It’s on lower Queen Anne, just north of the Space Needle.
      Portage Bay Cafe- it’s in Annie’s Eats, but just want to throw in another recommendation for it, because it’s AWESOME. It’s near the University of Washington.
      Skillet has good breakfast food. There’s one in Seattle Center (near Queen Anne), not sure of the hours.
      Biscuit B**ch. It’s in Belltown, and the biscuit sandwiches are awesome. Don’t go if you’re opposed to excessive amounts of swearing. But do go if you like killer biscuits.

      Coffee:
      If you want Starbucks because of the original Starbucks: Original Starbucks itself (in Pike Place) is overrated- go take the photo outside with a million other people and then walk south a half block and east a block and there’s another Starbucks with outdoor seating just east of the Pike Place market sign. Get a picture of the fish-throwers on the way.
      Stumptown Coffee is okay coffee, and it’s served all over Seattle, but there are a couple of actual Stumptown locations.
      Cupcake Royale has excellent ice cream, coffee, /and/ cupcakes. There’s one just northeast of Pike Place Market. There’s probably also one on Queen Anne.

      Breweries:
      Fremont Brewing, as others have said. I can’t drink anymore (meds), but when I could, it was my favorite.
      Elysian Fields is down near the stadiums, which is kind of a boring area, but Pioneer Square, near there, is a cool place to walk around. Elysian has good food and good beer.

      Other Places I Love:
      If you like pho, there are three recommendations I have. One of them looks kind of grungy but is my favorite place in Seattle, one is on Queen Anne, and one is the “best pho” in Seattle. They’re all super cheap, too. And pho in Seattle is better than anywhere else I’ve tried (I assume it’s better in Vietnam. I wouldn’t know).
      1. Thanh Vi- right near the UW campus, on “The Ave,” which is essentially the street right off campus. If you’re there already (the campus itself is beautiful and there are killer shots of Mt. Rainier, plus the Hogwarts library) and want pho, recommend, but otherwise not worth going just for that.
      2. Pho Viet Anh- This also comes up if you search “best pho”, but it’s got excellent reviews. It’s on lower Queen Anne.
      3. Pho Bac- there’s on in the International District in a boat-shaped building, and one on Minor, which is more near Queen Anne.
      West Seattle, generally, including Alki Beach- it feels like a whole different world. Go during the middle of a weekday if you can swing it or take the water taxi from downtown and a bus. I would get an Orca card for the week and rely on the bus system. We have a lightrail now that can get you from the airport to UW pretty quickly, with a lot of stops in between.
      Columbia Tower 40th floor Starbucks- not for the coffee, but the views are amazing and it’s only the price of a coffee, not the price of the observation deck or the Space Needle.
      Taking the ferry to Bainbridge is fun. I don’t know much of what to do on Bainbridge, but the ferry is really nice to ride on a summer day, and I’m sure Google can help you find good stuff to do once you’re on the island. :)
      Get a Seattle Dog from one of the street vendors at night. It’s a hot dog with cream cheese and green onions. Don’t knock it ’til you’ve tried it, it’s amazing.

      Have fun!

    • Bensonrabble

      Great recs from the group. Have fun!

      Might be too late for anyone to see this but there seems to be a lot of Seattle folk here. Any interest in a meet up?

  19. Closet Redux

    Context-free poll: do you think it is appropriate to hold a daytime, mandatory staff event at a racetrack (i.e., focused on a gambling activity)? So far as I understand, there is nothing else to do at the track besides bet and/or watch the races (and drink and eat, I suppose).

    • Anonymous

      Not really, but it’s the animal abuse involved in horse racing that bothers me more than the gambling. But I do think a mandatory event at any kind of gambling venue is problematic.

    • MNF

      Yes. I live near a racetrack and this is super common (work events, networking events, etc.)

    • anonymous

      Quite typical for my industry (tech/finance). We’ve had them at casino resorts or similar. Many people won’t be interested in gambling. The point is to socialize (and/or do whatever other activities are planned) and have something “extra” to make it a little more fun for those who enjoy gambling or want to try something new.

      • Closet Redux

        Casino resorts seem different to me for the reason you mention– there are other things to do (sit by the pool, see a show, etc.)

    • Anonymous

      If it’s a company event, then you absolutely have something to do – mingle with your coworkers. We have summer associate events at baseball games, no one actually watches the game. I think it would be inappropriate if you were required to actually bet on the races, but I have a hard time thinking that that’s what the event would entail.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      I’m having trouble articulating my answer so I’ll just be blunt. During less PC times, this was considered totally normal. Now that we are becoming more PC (which I think is a GOOD thing) this is not acceptable in PC circles because of religious restrictions, recognizing some people have had gambling problems, animal abuse, etc. I don’t think we have become PC enough yet that it is an obvious no though, like a strip club. Depending on where you live, your employer can likely get away with it for at least a few more years but there will certainly be some employees that don’t want to be there and are uncomfortable and will suck it up because that’s what they are supposed to do in your company culture.

      • anonshmanon

        I agree with you, but as a sidenote: In my impression, PC has become an entirely pejorative term used by parties that oppose societal change. In trying to avoid using this term, I’ve found that it is entirely superfluous. When I want to express that it’s nice how today we respect the needs of minorities more than in the past, I can say exactly that.

        • Blonde Lawyer

          Thanks! The “trouble articulating my answer” part was trying to find a way to say what I wanted to say without using the phrase “PC” but I was having a hard time coming up with something. There are too issues, being voluntarily inclusive and being legally inclusive. I was trying to reference both. Also, in some regions it is really frowned upon to have a non-inclusive event. In other regions, no one really cares or – worse – is annoyed when accompany tries hard to be accommodating of everyone.

    • Anonymous

      An event that people are strongly encouraged to go to (like a summer associate event in a law firm)? I don’t think it’s great and would definitely encourage people to hold it elsewhere if I were asked for my input, but I also don’t think it’s the end of the world. But an event that’s literally mandatory, like an employee training? I’d say that’s a no-go.

    • emeralds

      You’re missing the point of horse racing if you think the only point is to gamble…the point is to watch the horses!

      Although I will not argue that horse racing (flat racing in particular since it’s where the big money is) has plenty of reckoning to do with animal abuse. But then pretty much every sport in the world has its own abusive and unethical practices.

      • GCA

        Like the Olympics. I want to like the Olympics. I want to watch the Olympics. But the IOC and other national sporting bodies make it so hard to support them. I tell myself I’m watching and supporting the athletes but then that is a tacit signal that I support the whole enterprise…

      • Anonymous

        The only big money in flat racing is at the televised and well-known events. I can assure you there is no big money at the piddly tracks in WV, etc.

        • emeralds

          Thanks, I know that. My dad is in the horse business and has owned, trained, and ridden jump horses (and grew up jockeying for his parents’ even more serious operation–his mother sold a horse that won the Virginia Gold Cup), so I’ve been around racing and racehorses as long as I’ve been alive. He rescued two of the best riding horses we’ve had from really appalling conditions from people running them at Charlestown so believe me, I’m the last person in the world that’s going to say there are no abuse issues in racing. But in my experience, the *potential* for more money is what causes the preponderance of issues with flat racing. I’m not saying jump racing has no problems, because it does. But its problems are legions of scale smaller than flat racing, because flat racing is a bigger industry with more potential payouts.

    • lawsuited

      Yes, the activity is networking/mingling. I think any location with food and drink that is safe and doesn’t amount to sexual or other harassment (strip club, religious event) is fine.

    • Susan

      I don’t know which track you’re referring to and I can certainly understand your hesitation (and depending on the context, I’d say maybe not the best venue choice) but … I LOVE going to the races! Santa Anita Racetrack is a beautiful place to spend the day and there’s so much history there. On the weekends, they have lots of activities in the infield, so there’s “more to do.” As for the gambling … I love the low-stakes thrill of it. $2 on a race … a win pays for your next beer. Even if I lost every race, it’s still a crazy cheap outing. I also understand that racing is problematic from an animal rights perspective and now I feel lots of guilt.

  20. Moving tips?

    Moving this weekend and I’m struggling with how to pack up all those little odds and ends that always hang around until moving day. I’m almost 100% packed but I feel like I always forget to pack a bunch of random items and then spend a good chunk of moving day running after bits and bobs!

    Suggestions for how to avoid that problem? I’m not moving anywhere far (from one corner of DC to the other!) so I can probably just save a few of those reusable shopping bags to carry misc items but I’m open to other ideas

    • jwalk

      You could try packing one kind of item at a time so you hopefully avoid this situation. For instance, run around your apartment and grab every single knick knack you see, and pack them. Then dish towels. Then CDs. And so on and so on. The other option is to just leave a couple boxes mostly empty and open so you can throw those miscellaneous items in as you come across them on moving day.

    • anonshmanon

      when you pack an area of your home (hallway cabinet, bathroom cabinet), empty it completely. If something from there can not yet be packed, place it on a surface where you can see it. then the cabinet doors and drawers can be taped shut and you know the item is really ready to go.
      If all those little items that can’t be tucked away till moving are crowding, you can also pre-pack them in a designated box, laundry bucket or reusable shopping bag. So they are out of the way, but can be retrieved.

    • Parfait

      The last few boxes are always made up of all the miscellaneous awkward items that wouldn’t fit in the other boxes.

    • Anon

      Buy a six-pack of file boxes and Staples. Dump odds and ends in them as you leave. Sorted.

      Label the boxes “odds n ends.” Done.

    • lost academic

      I put everything where it is really supposed to go and then pack by room. At least things stay together that way. I also work to label the boxes exhaustively so at least I am not surprised when I open the box. But it’s that pre-packing work that really pays off. It seems silly initially – why spend all that time organizing and cleaning just to pack – but you pay for not doing so later.

  21. Tammy Two

    HALP! Looking for advice on how to do a graceful final interview rejection because I want to apply again later. Here’s the short version: I’m three phone interviews in for a lateral position and absolutely adore the firm and have been invited to fly out for a callback. For various reasons, I’ve accepted another job offer which is a better fit, but it will certainly be short term (about 2 years – similar to a clerkship but it’s not a “normal” thing like a clerkship). I’d like to keep the door open with this dream firm and I was up front that this 2 year gig was a possibility (they won’t be blind sighted). Please help me approach this rejection without closing the door forever? My ideal situation is to go to this firm after my two year stint. I’d happily do the interview but I don’t want them to “waste” a bunch of money flying me out, putting me up, etc.

    • Anonymous

      Say exactly what you mean.

      Dear recruiter person:

      Unfortunately, because I have accepted another position, I have to withdraw my application with dream firm. In doing so, I wanted to reiterate that I was very impressed with dream firm during the interview process and would welcome the opportunity to be considered for employment with your firm in the future. Thank you for taking your valuable time interview me.

      Sincerely,
      Tammy Two

      No need to mention where you’re going. No need to mention for how long.

    • Anonymous

      Since you were upfront about the other opportunity, I would specifically cite it. As hiring manager, I would appreciate knowing it was what I knew about rather than a third option never mentioned (ie, you just got a better offer elsewhere for a similar position as I was interviewing).

      “I have been offered and accepted The Cool Opportunity which I mentioned in the first interview. Therefore, I unfortunately have to withdraw my application with Dream Firm. In doing so, I wanted to reiterate that I was very impressed with Dream Firm during the interview process and would welcome the opportunity to be considered for employment with your firm in the future. I plan to be in touch after completing my two-year commitment.

      Thank you for taking your valuable time to interview me.”

    • Anonymous

      Response lost to moderation – but short version is that I would definitely cite the other opportunity as your reason for withdrawing since you have already mentioned it. As hiring manager, I would want to know that it was that opportunity rather than a third undisclosed one (ie, a similar position as to what I am hiring).

    • Anonymous

      This is first reply anon. I overlooked that you had previously mentioned the other job to them. Given that, it is ok to mention it by name. It wasn’t an issue to begin with—I just generally prefer simple to complicated when it comes to the job searching dance.

  22. Anonymous

    Recs for Portland, Maine? I’ve spent plenty of time in the Bar Harbor/Acadia area (which I love!) but don’t have much familiarity with Portland. Looking specifically for food recs at all price points (we are big into food but not food snobs; we love everything from In-N-Out to Michelin-starred restaurants) and romantic places to stay in the area, preferably hotels and not B&Bs (my husband doesn’t like B&Bs and since a major goal of the trip is eating, paying for a place with breakfast included seems wasteful).

    • GCA

      Oh! We passed through Portland twice this weekend on the way to points north/ south. Becky’s Diner on Commercial Street is good (at 6am on a Saturday – heaps of parking). Gelato Fiasco in Old Port is amazing (3pm on Sunday, parking was impossible).

  23. BarreBlond

    A friend of mine started calling peplums “gut curtains” and completely ruined them for me. :P

  24. Anon

    Ann Taylor really angers me. Just sent this to their customer service. I really like their clothing but their price adjustment policies are terrible.

    On 7/26 I placed an order for a blazer (order #3954925029) for total invoice of $95.40. Three days later on 7/29 the same jacket went on sale. I called your customer support line and requested a price adjustment. The person I spoke with said that my item was not eligible for price adjustment even though the same exact jacket was available on-line in my size at the discounted price. She suggested that I purchase the same exact jacket online and then return the first one I purchased. I did as she suggested and placed order #3969223849 for total invoice of $69.17. I received an email regarding my second order that says that the website was wrong and that my item is no longer in stock. I would like to request a price adjustment on my original order #3954925029 to bring it down to the sale price. I don’t understand why you would inconvenience your loyal customers by making them place orders for the same item rather than just price adjusting when it’s only been 3 day since the item was purchased. I will seriously think twice before purchasing from Ann Taylor in the future because I don’t have time for this pricing run around.

    • BankrAtty

      I’m done with AT too thanks to their horrible customer service. A sales associate recently refused to honor a $20 coupon I received via email because “I didn’t have the post card.” The email included a bar code and said it could be used in store. The sales associate insisted that she could not scan the bar code or otherwise apply the discount because I didn’t have the equivalent coupon on a piece of paper. She told me that the email was just a reminder to use the physical coupon. No thanks. I will take my money else where.

      • Anon

        I have to buy tall stuff and AT has a pretty wide assortment. If it wasn’t for that I would only spend my money at Nordstrom. They know how to keep people loyal.

    • Cc

      Ann Taylor has terrible customer service. One time I bought two bikinis final sale. 8 days later they let me know that the tops wouldn’t be coming, but it took about 7 emails and 2 phone calls for them to finally relent and let me return the bottoms and they were rude about it the whole time. They’ve also told me things are final sale in the store when I go to return it, even though I have all my receipts and paper work and none of it says final sale

    • Opal

      File it with the BBB. I’ve had a lot of success on thins like that when they go against their stated policy. If the price adjustment language in their policy (not sure if it is…) give syou 48 hrs or doesn’t apply to online, then it might not be helpful. But they respond FAST to BBB claims, and it only takes 2 seconds to submit one.

      That, and Twitter!

  25. Anon

    What is your opinion on this situation:

    Work at large well known firm for 1.5 years before getting recruited out by client for a lot more money, better hours, etc. 9 month later laid off from client. Call up previous large well known firm and ask for job back knowing that you’re 4 months pregnant. Do not let the firm know that you’re 4 months pregnant until you’re back in your old role.

    Some people are saying that you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do. Others are saying this is deceptively shady.

    • cbackson

      Eh, I don’t think it’s shady, but I wouldn’t love her taking a 6-month mat leave five months after starting, just because of the significant inconvenience associated with having to cover her workload for an extended period within short order, particularly because I’d expect her to be looking for another job and probably not to return from leave, given that she was unhappy at the firm job and is only coming back as a last resort. But I wouldn’t have hired her back, for that reason.

      • cbackson

        To be clear – her being pregnant wouldn’t cause me not to hire her back. The fact that she didn’t like the job would (because the job is still the same).

      • Anonymous

        I can understand why any job is wary of hiring someone who has left once before, but I definitely think characterizing it as she was unhappy at the firm job is unfair. Just because she pursued this opportunity (which is a dream job for many lawyers) doesn’t mean she doesn’t like working in a firm. I’m curious if you would see it differently if she had left for a different firm and that firm wasn’t a fit and she wanted to come back to her original firm. I don’t see a huge difference here because I don’t see the choice to go in-house as a rejection of firm life, just a chance to pursue a different job opportunity.

        • cbackson

          I should have been a bit clearer about this, but the issue here isn’t just leaving, but that she’s coming back because she doesn’t have another option. I would feel differently if she tried the in-house job and it wasn’t for her (or tried another firm and it wasn’t for her).

          But assuming that this has already happened and the hypothetical person is back in her former job, I think that she needs to make a commitment to proving wrong the people (like me!) who will expect her to bail. The maternity leave makes that harder, but not impossible – she should be as engaged as she possibly can in the months leading up to her leave, check in during leave (NOT DO WORK, but stay in regular touch with her colleagues), and schedule a meeting/lunch/call about a month before she intends to return to talk with the partners she works with about when she intends to return, how the ramp up will work, what matters she’ll come back to, etc. And come back from leave.

    • Wildkitten

      Instead of “ask for old job back” I’d view it as someone who worked in the firm, got additional outside experience with a client, and is coming back to the firm with the value add of outside experience. Isn’t that a common thing for firms to do, to lend staff to clients so they learn more and come back better firm staff? That’s not shady at all.

      • cbackson

        Yeah, but she didn’t leave to get outside experience…she left because she didn’t like the hours and was offered more money. I think that’s different than a secondment to a client.

        • Wildkitten

          Yeah, but she didn’t leave to get outside experience…she left because she didn’t like the hours and was offered more money. I think that’s different than a secondment to a client.

          • cbackson

            Yeah, I just don’t see it the same way. If you left the firm for the reasons she described above, I’d assume you’d be looking to leave again as soon as you got the chance (especially if you jumped early in your career, as she did).

          • cbackson

            Also, I would feel differently if she decided that the in-house life wasn’t for her and wanted to come back for that reason. But here, where she’s only coming back because she has to, I’d not want to take a chance on re-hiring.

      • Referee

        I’m going to award this point to cbackson.

        OP – cbackson is a partner at a biglaw firm and involved in the hiring process. Wildkitten is not. Without intending disrespect to Wildkitten’s opinion, I would trust the perspective of a hiring partner in this matter.

        • Anonymous

          But I think cbackson isn’t really answering the question. OP isn’t asking whether the firm will hire her back. They will or they won’t and it’s not her decision. cbackson said she wouldn’t hire OP, regardless of pregnancy status, but maybe other hiring partners would. Who knows. OP’s question is not about whether the firm will be ok with her wanting to come back after leaving for an in-house job, but about whether not disclosing that she’s pregnant is shady. And I don’t think it is, assuming she intends to stay there for a while.

          • cbackson

            I do agree that she doesn’t need to disclose the pregnancy during the hiring process (actually, I’ll go even stronger – please don’t! that shouldn’t be relevant to the decision-making).

          • Wildkitten

            I was trying to frame the situation for the applicant, not the hiring committee.

    • Anonymous

      Fine. People start jobs four months pregnant without disclosing the pregnancy all the time. I’m not sure why this siuatuon is different. (This is assuming you intend to come back from leave. Obviously not ok to just use them for five months of salary if you have no intention to be there long term.)

    • Anonymous

      If she had been a friend asking for advice, I think everyone on earth (including people calling it shady now) would have told her to not disclose.

      In a typical situation, in the long term a maternity leave is an insignificant blip. I don’t think it’s a big deal to start a job pregnant, disclosed or not, since a couple of years down the road it really doesn’t matter. And if someone is looking to have children, that time will be ‘lost’ no matter what. Six months after hire date or tw years past hire date is (typically) not earth shattering.

      That said, I’d be a bit annoyed not so much because of the pregnancy itself but because I would have already thought that she wouldn’t be sticking around for long the second time and now she’ll be missing some additional time. The root of that annoyance is really the idea of a short term tenure, not the pregnancy.

    • Blueberries

      Absolutely appropriate. Disclosing the pregnancy earlier might put the employer in the awkward position of appearing to unlawfully discriminate on the basis of pregnancy if they turned her down. Its bad enough for society that it’s hard for women to get a job while showing–no need to compound this.

  26. Antiperspirant Recommendations

    I think my beloved dove antiperspirant is giving me eczema :( anyone have another recommendation?

    • Anonymous

      My husband has the world’s most sensitive armpits and Herbal Magic is working really, really well. (He wears the herbal scent which is very different but nice).

    • Anonymous

      My armpits break out in an itchy red rash for all anti-antiperspirants/deoderants except for Dri Idea. This rash runs in my family and none of us break out from Dri Idea.

Back to Top

About

Work with Corporette®

Serious Stuff

work fashion blog press mentions