Weekend Open Thread

446 Comments

1. Any fellow skiers out there? I am having issues with my boots. The ski store says that I need to go down a size or two. I am worried that I will take the new boots on vacation and decide I hate them after having them on the slopes..then I am kinda stuck. Would you switch boots right before a big trip or make do with what you got (even though you are having issues)?

   1. It depends how bad the issue is. Why don’t you rent boots in the new size (and make you would want to buy) for the trip? Or wear a thicker pair of socks.

      1. Unfortunately, you can never rent boots that will fit you right. New boots will mold to your foot. Also, ski stores generally do not rent out newer model boots. The first thing I suggest to newbie skiers who are looking to continue with the sports is to go out and buy boots (skis can wait till they progress is skiing). The thicker sock trick also is a no go when it comes to skiing.

         1. Can you demo boots, like you can demo skis, once you get to your destination? I feel like I may have seen it, but I’ve only ever demoed skis. Doesn’t get around the molding to your foot issue, but then you could try out something you might actually want to buy, as opposed to whatever they’re using for daily rentals.

         2. Hmm, my experience is high end ski shops will rent out demo boots, but perhaps not for a long vacation. I’ve only done it for a weekend. You pay more, but it gives you a chance to really try out a brand or style before you buy them.

            Maybe you could try that once you get to your destination?

   2. I’ve been very happy with my ski boots since I bought them probably 6 years ago, so I’m speaking as someone who has never had issues with boots, really. I think that if you find a shop that is knowledgeable AND willing to spend a lot of time with you to make sure you get the right fit and size, you will end up being happy with a new pair. In my opinion, there’s nothing worse than having ill-fitting or uncomfortable ski boots. I would definitely take the chance on new boots rather than stick with old boots that have known issues!

   3. From my extremely limited experience (which includes being fitted for ski boots that I absolutely love love love), you can normally tell pretty quickly if you are wearing the right boots for you. When I was buying mine, I tried on lots of pairs before I finally put on a pair that just felt *right*, and they were so much better than what I was using before. If you are having serious issues with your old pair, you won’t enjoy skiing on your vacation so if you like your new pair, I think it is worth going with those. It isn’t really like ski boots need to be broken in like shoes. Just make sure you go to a fitter who knows what he is doing.

      1. I agree with those who say that you should go ahead and buy a new pair of boots. Nothing can ruin skiing faster than a problem with your boots. You definitely need to find something knowledgeable though. Since you say you are going on vacation, I am wondering if you live in a non-skiing area? If so, I might suggest waiting until you get to your destination and spending a few hours on the first day shopping for new boots there. I have had the WORST luck trying to find anyone knowledgable when trying to buy anything ski-related in the midwest (including a lady at REI who insisted that I could wear a pair of khakis skiing in January in Colorado. Seriously.).

         1. All of those snowboarders are wearing jeans on the slopes, so why not khakis? (ha ha, that is awful.)

   4. I’ve done it; fortunately, it worked out great for me. (But I live in a ski town now.)

      You probably know this already, but expect the linings to get packed down after a few days of wear, so don’t stress about them feeling too tight now. My advice is just make sure there aren’t any pressure points in your toes or shins.

   5. You just reminded me that I need new ski boots. Mine are the worst and I’ve had them since I was a teenager. I’m not going up skiing until the end of the month. But I think maybe I’ll tell my mom that this is the gift I want in place of something she gave me for xmas.

   6. I have never had good boot advice from any of the many ski stores I’ve been in. Google for a custom boot fitter in your area. Mine worked wonders with my badly-fitted boots, and when it was time to buy new, he measured my foot, gave me a short list, and told me to go buy one of *these* boots. Then he tweaked those a bit, and my feet have never been happier.

   7. Lydia,

      I am an expert skier. The best ski boot advice is that you should buy boots from an experienced bootfitter near the slopes (not that guy at Paragon, Sports Authority, REI in your hometown) because even though you will pay a premium, it’s worth it to have someone near the mountain that can help adjust things. But it sounds like you already have boots, so the next best thing to fit your boots (short of buying new ones, which you may not need at all) would be to get the liners modified to be custom fitted to you and to add custom footbeds…this can help a lot, and will set you back under $200. That might sound like a lot, but against the cost of lift tickets and foot pain–it’s worth it. Trust me.

      Most newer boots have “heatable” liners that can be molded to you. As someone above mentioned, most boot liners pack out with time, and it’s generally suggested that you get new liners about every 50-70 days on the hill. This makes a huge difference for comfort.

      Also, it is generally recommended to get boots that are smaller than your shoe size, so they should be very tight, and they might be uncomfortable for your first few days on the hill. However, they shouldn’t be so uncomfortable that your toes are curling or you are getting “hot spots.” This tight fit helps your boots (and by extension your skis) be very responsive as you flex your ankes and shins left and right and “push” with your toes, arch and heel as you move through a turn. But I don’t believe people that say they should be super-duper tight so that you cringe–that’s for ski racers, and you’re likely not a ski racer. You can ski fine if you’re not in agony, and remember that the salespeople are trying to convince you that you need to buy new boots, which are pricy.

      My fix would be to get custom footbeds and liners (and possibly add a riser). Custom footbeds can seriously improve the fit/comfort boots. Due to how women’s hips are, also adding custom risers under the liners (which are basically “lifts” which pitch you forward a half an inch to an inch) can really keep you out of the “back seat” (leaning back) when you ski and make a huge difference in how you ski. I always thought the footbeds were a ripoff and a manufactured “need” until I tried it. I am a huge convert and will preach this to anyone who listens. Spend the $200 at Surefoot to get custom footbed liners. Even cork ones are a step up from the ones that come with the boots.

      A really good bootfitter will take your liners out and “carve out” any tight spots (like around bunions) if they hurt you, or “pad out” spots that need to be tighter (like adding butterfly neoprene patches around your ankles) for a snugger fit. This is a WAY cheaper way to make your boots comfy than buying a new pair.

      All of this can add up to better fitting boots and more comfort to you.

      There are some things that cannot be fixed–like if the boots are flat dab not wide enough for you or boots that are too soft (too much flex–beginner boots do this). But just working on your liners and doing a custom footbed will mean a remarkable improvement. I will post a link to who you should see in another comment to avoid moderation.

      Enjoy the snow…very jealous that you have any at all. Ski season out west has been nonexistent thus far.

      1. America’s Best Bootfitters is a consortium of the best shops. These guys know their stuff. If there isn’t one near you, head to a Surefoot. However, Surefoot can be more of a ripoff–do not let them convince you that a $350 silicon-injection job on your liners is the way to go. They need to remove the liners from your boots, look at your feet and how they are “blistered/rubbed” at the end of the day of skiing, and fix the neoprene. Surefoot does have good liners though and they are worth the $200.

         Note that this is an interative process, so you should go back until the boots are comfy, and they should fix stuff. Don’t be bashful. Just bring the guy who’s working on you a six pack of beer and it should be all good.

         http://www.bootfitters.com/oldsite/FIND_SHOP.htm

      2. Agree completely with everything MJ said except Surefoot (I have not been impressed with them). One option is to take the boots you have and if they’re not working plan to buy a custom pair wherever your ski vacation is. You should be able to good and find a competent boot-fitter where you’re going.

         If you let us know where your headed, there might be a corporette who can recommend a local shop.

         ps – I live in a ski town and there is no snow right now.

         1. good=google. Ugh. Friday and still at work.

      3. Not to gloat… but I have been skiing powder for two solid months in AK… and there is another storm in the forecast for later this week… oh, and avalanche danger continues to be low to moderate.

   8. Thanks all for your advice. I have had my boots for a very long time. Probably 10 yrs. I know the liner is completely packed. I have heel rises already; got new footbeds last year. I love my boots because they are soooooo comfortable. I swore I would keep them forever. But I am suffering from shin splints right now from running and given the roominess of the boot, shin bang is quite painful. Therefore, smaller boots do make sense. I am in NYC; made an appointment where a friend’s significant other works. Highly rated ski shop/bootfitter…wish I had tried skiing earlier in the season.

      1. Ugh – forgot to put in my name.

   9. Do you trust the ski shop? If so, then buy the boots. If not, consider purchasing them at the shops where you’re skiing. I know you won’t get a break on price, but you’ll be working w/ people who are constantly dealing with your exact issues. I bought mine in Park City where they had a machine to make the footbed conform to your foot. My ski instructor took me to this store. I’m sure he got a nice commission out of it, but since he took me from greens to double blacks in a single day, I totally trusted him.

2. The thread from a few days ago discussing why women choose to stay at home, work full time, or find some other arrangement in between got me thinking: How many of you have partners who are (or are planning to be) stay at home dads? DH and I are anticipating that he will take some time off work to stay with our children when we have them while I keep working, which I really hope works out, but I don’t really have any experience with situations like this. How does this arrangement work in real life? What are some things you wish you would have known ahead of time? Were there any issues with your partner ending up not liking it, or resenting the situation? Does it cause any other problems with your family, either socially or internally? We live in a pretty traditional part of the country, where our kids will not likely have any friends that have the same situation (and none of our extended family members do this). Sometimes my husband wonders if it would bother us or our kids to have a relatively odd set-up like that.

   1. I think you should be VERY carful before letting DH be the stay at home person. There are alot of women out there that will seem very AVAILEABLE to him if he is around them all day while you are out at WORK.

      It is one thing to be in the MOVIES with MR MOM; it is another thing in REALITY.

      It may be best to do CHILD Care, and have DH continue to work to bring home the paycheck.

      Most peeple do NOT think about it, but God forbid if you ever split up, you do NOT want to have to pay HIM alimony! FOOEY on that!!!! FOOEY!!!

   2. I’m also interested in what others have to say.

      1. I’m also interested in what others say, particularly as to whether dads may face different issues than moms do as to “on-ramping” at a later date in a traditional field like law firms

      2. Do you think this is something most men ever think about? I doubt they ever debate how difficult it is for their wives/SOs to be at home, let alone how her career will never be the same. I never liked the double standard of women being “built” for childrearing and men having too fragile egos to deal with a career woman and the stigma of raising their own children. Total B.S. if you ask me. We’re in 2012 for crying out loud, not 1953.

         1. Well, my husband has been thinking about this a LOT lately. But because he’s really the only one he knows who has ever needed to think about it, he’s not really sure how it generally goes or what protocol is. There are a lot of support systems and resources for SAHMs as well as WOHMs, but fewer for dads making those decisions. I think he feels a little isolated, so asking the question here is one of the ways I want to help him find information.

            He grew up his whole life with the idea that the responsible thing to do would be to get ready to support a family, and now that framework is gone and he’s a little unsure.

         2. Yes, I think this is something men think about (at least my fiance offered to me his thoughts on how hard it would be for me to stay home, for the same reasons (ego etc) ). The women who are expressing concerns for their spouses are probably just being good spouses–not supporting a 1953 stereotype.

            1. My intent when I wrote this wasn’t that women shouldn’t be posting about this here. I’m all for that, and support it. What I meant was that I doubt men would be asking this on their own, among their peers. Apologies if I came off as abrupt, it’s just always bothered me how women spend so much time struggle with the balance between work, parenthood, and maintaining a marriage when men get to coast along easier when they should be shouldering half of these worries.

         3. Anon@ 4:03 –

            In a way, you are right, and I share your frustration. But we had to get from 1953 to 2012 somehow. One of those ways was by having intelligent, motivated women who wanted a different pathway work together, talk, and change things. Some things have changed, but as much as we wish they would go away and that the world would judge us for the quality of person we are, rather than our hip-to-waist ratio, many challenges still exist. I’m thrilled with the job that Corporette does of fostering a community that continues to change things – in the absence of discussions between us, it’s women on their own, not sure why, exactly, things are so hard, or if it’s their fault. Yesterday there was an incredible thread about a woman challenging her maternity policy, and suggestions from other members – something she might not be able to do were it not for this site. The world as it exists on paper doesn’t correspond with the world as it exists. These problems are not in our head, and they won’t just go away if we stopped talking about them.

            I found that when I just pretended that everything truly was equal and the same, my life was more difficult. While I think it’s important to define yourself, your relationship, and your career by their strong points, but acknowledging the challenges and working together to minimize them.

            1. Bravo with your last paragraph. I agree completely.

            2. I didn’t say that it would go away if we stopped talking about them. I know women discuss these types of things, but I don’t think men do. That’s all I meant, and I hardly think these problems are in our heads.

         4. My husband and I have dealt with/though about this for our entire marriage, and we have made several decisions based upon my career and not just his. If you married to a Neanderthal, then perhaps he doesn’t think about it, but if he is a decent guy, then your career is no less important than his.

      3. My husband works at home at his own business and makes less money than he would if he traveled and worked for other companies in his field. He also makes much less than I do. But, the trade off is that we only put our infant in daycare for a few hours each day. Now that our son is in middle school, hubby is home for afterschool play, homework, and dinner. I can’t imagine raising our son any other way. There have been times when my husband had to work out of town and having my son in daycare for ten hours a day was terrible.

   3. My husband was what we call an accidental SAHD when our kids were babies. He was laid off when our daughter was about 6 months old, and was still job hunting when we found out our son was on the way. At that point, we both decided it would make sense for him to stay home until the babies were old enough for preschool.

      I’m glad my kids had that time in their early childhoods to have a parent at home. However, it was not so great for my husband. While he looks back on it fondly now, I know at the time he was very frustrated not to be “contributing,” and to be honest, those three years at home really did set him back in his career quite a bit.

      For his own sanity, the last year he took a part-time job teaching evenings at a career college, and we had a babysitter to cover the overlap between our hours. (She worked 4-7PM Monday through Thursday.)

      My husband parented, and still parents, differently than I do, and so it was a little hard on our relationship. As the mom, I want some input on how my babies’ days are structured, and if I had a nanny, I could make certain demands. With a partner at home, and particularly since he was sensitive about me being the sole breadwinner and therefore somehow the “boss,” negotiations about the kids’ care were delicate and often resulted in us fighting.

      In terms of culture, we live in Berkeley, and if there’s any more progressive, liberal place, I’d like to hear about it. Still, he felt somewhat isolated as a stay at home dad. There are tons of stay at home moms, but they somewhat closed ranks and did not include him in much. The one stay at home mom who started to be friends with him pretty much started coming on to him within a few weeks, so there’s that too! The global recession might have changed all of this – we were in our mini-Bay Area tech recession when my husband was home – so maybe there are more SAHDs in more communities now.

      One good thing – my husband was in the best shape of his life. The local YMCA offers free 1 hour childcare so members can work out. Now, me, I would have felt guilty about putting my wee infant in childcare for “me” time (not that that’s necessarily a rational point of view) but my husband would seriously take any chance he could get for a break and felt absolutely no guilt. So he worked out for an hour plus EVERY DAY and man, he looked great. Also, he walked them to the gym in a double stroller every day. As a result, so many people in town – the childcare workers at the gym, the merchants along his walking route – have known my children since they were babies, they’re practically celebrities. :)

      Regarding my family and his family, they really never approve of anything we do (none of them live in Berkeley, and never would) so we’ve gotten used to ignoring their input. But yes, some older families disapproved and even worried that my husband was somehow taking advantage of me.

      Last, and this is true whether there’s a SAHM or a SAHD, if you’re the working parent, you come home to a partner who is stick-a-fork-in-me DONE and you have to be ready to assume all responsibility when you arrive home. It doesn’t matter that you worked all day. Your partner needs a break from the kids and should get one, for the sake of himself and your relationship.

      1. “My husband parented, and still parents, differently than I do, and so it was a little hard on our relationship. As the mom, I want some input on how my babies’ days are structured, and if I had a nanny, I could make certain demands.” This is so true, and goes to things like housekeeping as well. You must learn to step back and evaluate the big picture, pick your battles, and approach with respect. I advise every mother to watch out for playing an over-gatekeeping role on parenting, but it’s particularly important when you’ve got a very involved co-parent.

      2. That last paragraph is so true! There are days I get home and my husband practically runs out the door to go to the grocery store alone for things he “forgot” to get for dinner. He just needs a break from small children! He even told me he looks forward to going to the dentist now because he can sit quietly in a chair for longer than 5 minutes, haha!

         1. My hubby is also an accidental SAHD. He has been laid off for a while and it was too expensive to keep paying for childcare with only one income. At first it was horrible for both of us. He was not used to it, did not see himself as a SAHD, and he was so much worse at doing what I wanted than the nanny was (no laundry, no cooking, minimal cleanup)!! But once I let go and let him do it his way (and I do most of the shopping, cooking and laundry) it got better. He also figured out how to make it work for him. While he does get depressed about it sometimes he has also learned to see the upside. Interestingly, he is a totally different kind of SAH parent than I would be, probably far healthier. He takes time for himeself, doesn’t obsess about healthy meals or a clean house, and our kids are well cared for by a loving relaxed, (mostly) happy parent. I suspect if I was the SAH parent I’d be a stress case because I’d turn my type A tendencies towards my kids and obsess about not having the perfect house and the most wholesome muffins.

            1. ha! I think my kids had cheap chinese takeout for lunch at least three times a week. I wasn’t psyched about it at the time, to say the least. (It seems to have done them no long-term harm.)

   4. Not me, but my brother was a SAHD for a few years in a very conservative area (in south Florida). He enjoyed the time he did it, but originally was not his choice but did it because his wife had just gotten her MBA. They are now divorced (multiple reasons) but being a SAHD did add some stress.

      He did report some difficulty with playdates, as in more than one neighborhood mom told him “my husband will not let me be in the house alone with you (and the kids)”, which he found disturbing for a variety of reasons. Some neighbors also assumed that he was gay — why else would a tall, handsome, fit 35 year old man stay at home with his toddler? Besides that, there is the usual strains of being at home with small children and missing your career, as well as missed opportunities in his career and income.

      1. “He did report some difficulty with playdates, as in more than one neighborhood mom told him “my husband will not let me be in the house alone with you (and the kids)”, which he found disturbing for a variety of reasons.”

         Wow, really? There’s a whole lotta trust in those relationships! How ridiculous.

   5. I’m balancing trying to find a new job, actively trying to get pregnant, and dealing with the very traditional area my husband and I live in. Currently he owns his own business, but rather than continue to grow that he wants to make it part-time and instead get a master’s in teaching. We are really hoping to get pregnant in the next few months, but not give birth until least a few months into the new job I will hopefully get, because then he can stay home while getting his master’s degree for the next year.

      After that, and with subsequent children, our plan is for both of us to work at about 80% and focus on our family.

      I know our chances of things going according to ‘plan’ are tiny, but it gives you context –

      We are living relatively close to his family (they could drive over for dinner if they wanted), and we are keeping both his returning to school and our plans for him to stay home a secret from them until they happen. We expect that it will cause problems. His family is very, very, incredibly traditional – on several dates my MIL has openly questions how I’m ever going to be a mother and an attorney, and how any mother who loves her children wouldn’t let them take backseat to a job. My family is incredibly supportive (and live hours away).
      We also will be the only couple we know with a non-traditional setup. In fact, we’re currently the only couple in our circle of friends who haven’t had children, and all except one of those the woman has stayed home through the end of the first year.
      I’m very thankful to be married to an incredible person – I think a lot of men would be uncomfortable with this setup.
      We make strategies and lists for how to deal with issues as they arise. Our lists so far include:

      Dealing with comments from (1) family, (2) community, (3) strangers;
      Handling money issues and equality with money;
      Husband’s social life – all other baby caretakers are women;
      How I can support him and the services we need help with if he’s still going to work (very) part time.

      That last one is sort of a biggie – although he’s totally enthusiastic about it, he will be totally new to any sort of domestic/caretaking, and for reasons above, we’re not going to allow his family to get involved. I am totally, super okay with having a SAHD and also having a housekeeper come in once or twice a week.

      I can’t wait to hear what others say.

      I’m really open to learning in advance other issues we haven’t thought about yet.

   6. Great discussion.

      No experience for me right now yet, but my husband and I have expressed plans to do this for a long time. We live in a very, very conservative bible-belt state, and both of our parents are very traditional (moms never worked more than part-time and mostly not at all). And no one, I mean no one, has indicated that they think that this is a bad idea. Family’s all fine with it, other people seem fine (not that I’m particularly interested in how other people think that I should lead my life, of course).

      To tell you the truth, the only people who seem to give a negative reaction, in my experience, are professional women. I must admit that I’ve gotten less than positive responses a few times (a long time ago) on Corporette, for example, and some weird looks from my female classmates when I was in law school. I can’t explain why that is.

      That said, the financial aspect is looking less rosy than I had hoped. (thanks, recession!)

      1. Oh, I’ll add that there are probably more of them than you would think. When we first moved into our old subdivision, which was quite small, there were 3-4 families in the neighborhood directory with SAHD listed as the husband’s profession. This was still in the bible belt and back when the economy was booming. We never really met them, but he mentioned several times that he would look to hang out with them if we had kids while still living there. (I got a new job and we’ve moved to another city, but we’re not far and the cultures are similar.)

         Why not look for a meet-up group or something online, so that he can find some more non-female stay at home parents, when the time comes?

      2. Lyssa, I seriously can’t believe how similar we are sometimes. I could have written that same exact post – planning to have husband stay home, family fine with it, weird looks from professional women, etc. Don’t say anything risque, because I’m afraid my friends who read Corporette will think I am posting under your name. :)

         1. Also the Bible belt, conservative upbringing thing. I will say this on that note: Give people a chance. Most of the time, they will be a lot more open to it than you think.

         2. Also similar on the Bible belt, conservative upbringing thing. And on that note, I’ll say this: Give people a chance. Often they will be more open to it than you expect.

         3. b23, I smile everytime I see one of our oh so similar posts! You know, sometimes I actually feel like a bit of a loner out here in Corporette-land (not in a major city, in the South, married young, not making as much as a lot of gals here or working as much, a few different values), so sometimes it’s really nice to have someone I identify with.

            IIRC, though, I think that you’re a bit younger than me. Wanna be my internet-little sister? :)

            1. You two are not alone, I’m also in the South, not a lawyer (nowhere near lawyer salary!), conservative upbringing, a few different values, and married young.

               Speaking of which, we should plan a meet-up in the South sometime. Granted, “the South” is a big region, but I feel like there’s several Corporettes in the DFW metroplex.

            2. Late weekend reply, but I also smile every time Lyssa and b23 post because I, too, married (relatively) young and work in “the South” and often agree with everything Lyssa says.

               And would totes down with a DFW meet-up.

   7. My husband has been SAH full or part-time for about two years. It’s worked beautifully for us.

      It wasn’t the plan originally, but his field went in the toilet during the recession so it was “good timing.” We’d actually talked about how nice it would be for him to be able to stay home well before that, but we didn’t think we could afford it. LOL, how life teaches you things.

      I can’t stress enough how wonderful it is to have a stay at home parent. You’re fitting daycare drop off/pick up in to your commute, and kiddo can be on whatever sleep schedule they want. There’s someone home to do laundry, prep dinner, grocery shop, etc. We’ve had times where my husband needed to work full-time, and it’s terribly difficult on everyone.

      The most important factor is that both partners understand that SAH is a full-time job. Over my child’s life, we’ve both been SAH. Having that shared experience of knowing what it’s like to (a) be home with an infant/toddler all day and (b) go to work all day makes a world of difference in how we treat and support each other. We’re both tired by 5 pm and pointing fingers at who has it easier is a convenient but dangerous thing to do.

      There are times when my husband gets tired of the daily grind, just as anyone does in their job. Again, having experienced it myself helps me be empathic. During one particularly rough week, I took a day off work so that he could get some breathing space. Now that his hours are staring to pick up at work and we started to use part-time day care, that doesn’t happen. And every time he spends a couple of days out of his full-time dad life, he really misses it. So overall, he definitely likes it. We’re discussing making him officially SAH, regardless of the economy.

      Thankfully we live in an area with lots of SAHDs. Still, it was hard on my husband to adapt to not filling a traditional father role *in other people’s eyes.* He was always happy with the arrangement, but felt embarrassed at times. I would expect your husband to feel awkward at times, particularly if it’s not common where you are. But it absolutely won’t bother your kids – and you and your husband shouldn’t let it bother you. You know if you are doing the right thing for your family as a whole, and that’s all that matters. Connecting him with SAHD blogs and hopefully a dads group (check meetup dot com) can help.

      1. I’ll add that my husband is much more suited to being SAH than I am, personality wise. He can handle being away from adults and is comfortable doing housework/cooking. That does matter. Frankly, our house runs much more smoothly with him SAH than with me SAH. While I thought I wanted to be a SAHM, I was miserable and unproductive.

         He’s also an excellent father. It comes naturally to him, but I also think it’s because I wasn’t a “swoop in and take the baby because Dad’s not doing anything right” kind of mom. I resolved to not be anyway, but certainly being alone with our child all day let him develop his own routine, etc.

         1. Did you know ahead of time that he would take to staying at home so well? My husband thinks he would like it, but he doesn’t have a ton of experience with kids. He’s great with older kids (old enough to talk about Star Wars with) but doesn’t really like spending time with kids who don’t talk yet. Did you feel like you could “predict” that he would fit into the role well, or was it kind of a gamble?

            1. We had “daydreamed” about him being a SAHD well before having our first child. While we didn’t plan it because we didn’t think we live off my income alone (he makes a healthy income, well more than the cost of day care), we did predict that he would enjoy it and be good at it.

               But you’re instincts are correct that it can be a bit unpredictable. Based on personal observations, I’d say most people accurately know whether or not they would enjoy or be good as a SAHP but that maybe 10-20% are surprised one way or the other. So it’s always a bit of a gamble… but nothing you can’t change down the road.

      2. Still, it was hard on my husband to adapt to not filling a traditional father role *in other people’s eyes.*

         An SAHD needs to be a strong person with a very solid internal sense of self-worth. It’s not easy to go against most people’s expectations. I’m impressed.

   8. no experience or thoughts on this but the lovely blogger behind wardrobe oxygen has a stay at home husband and has blogged about the topic a bit very thoughtfully — though you’d have to dig through her archives to find those posts.

   9. I am a lawyer and my husband stays home with our three children (one school age, a toddler and a baby). He also works part-time/contract basis that could ramp up to full-time if needed (he works mostly at night, sometimes during the weekends. He sets his own hours, so it works out for us that we don’t need childcare.) We have had this arrangment for the past three years. The first year he did not work at all, but then was offered this opportunity and we decided it was a good idea for him to keep current in his field (engineering).

      Anyways, he says he is typically one of two or three dads at all of the child events he takes the kids to (library, music, etc.). Everyone thinks its nice that he takes care of the kids. Some of our more old-fashioned family members think that our set up is “wrong” for whatever reason (men should take care of their families by working, and they are not meant to nurture children…) But we don’t let that bother us. I make more money than he does and he likes staying home with the kids, so it works out.

      There was an adjustment period initially where he had to learn to clean house (up to my standards, lol, not bachelor pad standards), grocery shop more efficiently, starting dinner at a time so it can be done at a reasonable hour, etc. I had done all of this stuff previously (we married while we were students.) But he is very open to suggestions and I try to say things in a helpful and non-condescending way.

      The key has really been communication. We are often re-evaluating and making sure that we are both happy with the arrangement. So far it has worked great!

   10. Well, my dh has been a SAHD off & on the last couple of years while he’s been in & out of work, and when our oldest ds was born I went back to work p/t, dh was still a student, so I set up my work hours to be when dh didn’t have classes.

       DH loves being home with our boys & developing that close relationship with them. It is not as socially acceptable in our city to be a SAHD, so lots of times he’d get strange or rude comments from people about our situation. We’ve had comments from our boys’ friends who thing its odd that I’m the f/t worker and dh was home f/t (he just started a new job mid Dec). I enjoyed having him home not only for all the household stuff he did (dinner, laundry, some of the cleaning) but it was also a huge support to me as I got a promotion & less than a month later my boss suddenly went on leave to be with her dh who is recovering from a brain aneurism. It’s also been really nice not to have to worry if one of the boys gets sick, or if they have a day (or week) off school.

       The down side to our situation is that most of the time dh’s position as a SAHD hasn’t been his choice, so he dealt with feeling bad that he wasn’t contributing to the family budget. He also sometimes let those comments others would make about him being at home get under his skin (a lady at McDonalds one day said to him in a snooty voice ‘must be nice to have the day off to spend with your kids.’ I told him he should have said ‘yes it is’ in a very nice voice). He was also dealing with all those negative feelings that go along with being unemployed. I think if he was a SAHD by choice, it would have been different.

   11. Mine is planning to do it while in grad school. We’ll see how long that lasts…

       1. I’m a lawyer in a financial services firm, my Hubby owns his own small business and we have three kids, 5th, 3rd and 2nd grades. I stayed home about 5 years after number 1 was born, then went back part time and then full. I take the kids to school in the am and then work later. Hubby goes into work insanely early and then picks the kids up at three and does the afternoon homework, practice hauling dinner making shift. It’s easier now that the kids are school age and the division of labor works for us.

   12. The concept of choice is an interesting one to me. I have never had the choice to not work even though at times I think this is what I would have most wanted to do. Women who have the choice not to work are part of an elite group. They are lucky enought to have husbands that can support them. I suspect that this is rare both now and historically. Now turn this around. Women now have the choice to support a husband who looks after the kids. Do women really want to do this? Of course, this is a personal decision, but what kind of life is this for either spouse? The New York Times Magazine had an interesting article awhile back suggesting that the ideal situation is two working spouses/parents each of whom work 3/4 time. The article also pointed out how difficult this is to accomplish. Look at the thread later on on this page about the young woman just out of lawschool struggling to support both herself and her boyfriend out of love. Is this choice?

       1. Just to play Devil’s Advocate. I work 3/4 time (32-35 hrs a week) and my husband works full time. He makes 5 times what I do. He is “supporting” me even though I work and do pay some of my own bills, but he pays the mortgage, the utilities, etc. I could, of course, always get a job paying more (I work a lower-paying, 3/4 time nonprofit job so I can have flexibility to drop off/pick up our son) but that same thing could be said of many of the SAHDs mentioned on this thread.

          I actually don’t know very many families with kids where the incomes are equal and the financial split is completely equal. I don’t think it’s weird at all. I also think things are more fluid now than they used to be – in our marriage, there have been times I have supported the family and times that my husband has, and that’s the new reality. And yes, I think this is “choice” and I’m glad we have the option to have men stay home now. A lot of moms love their kids and love being moms but are not suited to and would not be happy staying home full-time, and the dads are. Nothing wrong with that in the least. I actually am not well-suited to staying home full-time, and ended up doing it when my son was a baby/toddler only because my field pays less than my husband’s. Not because I am more nurturing, more suited to it, etc.

   13. My husband is a SAHD and I feel so lucky about our situation. We didn’t necessarily plan for this outcome when we got married, but once I headed to law school, and certainly once I entered big law, it became clear this was the obvious choice for us. I think the reason it works so well for us is all about our personalities and our strengths. I could never handle staying home full time – I am just not cut out for it. Even the 3 month maternity leave was hard on me. He, on the other hand, was already doing all the cooking and most of the household chores even when we were both working, so that aspect of being a SAHD wasn’t new to him. He’s also way more patient with kids than I am. He was a teacher, so from an economic perspective, with the cost of daycare, it was a pretty simple choice, esp. once you are talking about the cost of two kids in daycare.

       The reception I’ve received has been overwhelmingly supportive, and many female attorneys at my firm have expressed jealousy at my situation. It’s hard when I have other transactional female attorneys come to me and ask how it is having a baby and working in big law, because my response is that having a SAHD is the way to make it work, but most men aren’t really cut out for what that role entails. Not only do I feel entirely comfortable that my kids are getting the best care possible, I also have “a wife” at home to run errands and take care of all the little stuff that I don’t have time to do. This lets us have time on the weekends for family fun instead of always having to run errands.

       Things I have learned (and am continuing to learn) about how to make this work:
       1) you definitely have to pick and choose your battles on how the house is kept, how he takes care of the kids, etc.
       2) also as others have mentioned, your husband will need breaks. Being a SAHD is a very full time job, so when I come home, I try to help out with the kids, however, I often have more work to do once I get home if we’re during a busy phase. It is not sustainable for him to be in charge of kids both during the day and in the evening. Luckily, we have both sets of grandparents in the same city, so they try to give him days off, especially when I’m in a busy period.
       3) praise your husband often and thank him. it is so important for him to realize how much you value what he is doing.
       4) it’s really hard not to be jealous of your kids relationship with the stay at home parent. I know this is the best situation for us and I’m so thankful for it, but when my little guy goes to my husband instead of me when something’s wrong, it hurts. Same thing when he said dada months before he ever said mama. And when you have to miss a big event, or even just a fun outing, you do get jealous.

       Honestly, from a female deal lawyer’s perspective, I don’t see how you can be on a true partnership track with a full time working spouse unless you are ok with a nanny (either full time or on top of day care) and ok with not spending much time with your kids. It may be easier in other practice areas where you can plan for your busy times and set your own hours better. IF your husband has the right personality be a SAHD, it is an awesome solution, but there are a lot of guys out there who couldn’t handle it. Before having your husband become a SAHD, try to find others for him to talk and get advice from. Make sure he is aware of what the challenges will be and ok with not being a breadwinner.

       1. I am just curious, who decorated your house? Who buys the kids clothes? Who sorts through the clothes every six months to put clothes in storage/donate? Who makes sure there is always toilet paper, shampoo, and conditioner in the house? Who keeps track of the kids’ homework, music lessons, music practice, school events, etc.? Who plans the family vacations? Who keeps track of the doctor and dentist appointments? Who buys new sheets when the old ones tear? Who makes sure the kids go to bed on time? Who makes the kids do their chores? Who schedules the playdates? Who plans the birthday parties?

          1. House decor (and we’re currently building a house so all of those appointments and monitoring) is joint, I buy most of the clothes (but can send him to the mall with specifics if we just need basics and my mom buys a lot too), we’ve both done clothes sorting, he does grocery shopping, kids are just babies, joint vacation planning (we just booked one yesterday: we talked about general wants, he did preliminary research, I did final pricing and booking), i keep track of family calendar (although he often makes the appointments), he does most shopping (with specific instructions from me if necessary) or I buy stuff online, we usually put baby down together although he does the baths, he does playdates and other daytime activities, and we jointly do the birthday parties.

             1. O.k. I’m glad you have it worked out for now. Maybe most commenters in this thread are younger with younger kids. Mine are in elementary/middle and we are in our 40’s. Things change. Jobs change. Jobs disappear. People move away from family support systems unexpectedly. Children grow. Their needs change. What worked before may stop working. Can stay at home dad continue to do all of these things as children grow? Will breadwinner mom have to work full time and work her second job when she gets home? Will stay at home dad become obsolete in his former career? Will breadwinner mom take on the entire burden of supporting the family, paying for college, paying for the bar mitzvah, weddings, etc.? Will stay at home dad become depressed because he is with kids all day/not working/no colleagues/no bonuses/ not the breadwinner? What will stay at home dad do when the children are in school?

             2. This is such an interesting thread, thanks very much to B and others for sharing so candidly and generously ! My experience in financial services is the same in that it is not possible to be in or on track for senior client-facing roles without coming to terms with delegation of at least some parenting responsibilities.

             3. to A to Z,
                I am also in my 40s with kids in elementary school. Of course things change, but that’s no reason to say no one should try this. We did, and now my husband is back to being employed full-time.

                There is theory and then there is practice. A lot of times (judging from my own acquaintances and this thread) the stay at home parent thing isn’t planned, but comes about due to job loss of one of the partners, or because one partner earns so little it doesn’t make sense to pay for daycare, or just because one partner has a change of heart.

                In the meantime, I don’t think all of us worry about who is going to decorate the house.

             4. “What will stay at home dad do when the children are in school?”

                They will probably do what 90% of the SAHMs I know, including myself, did – get a job . I worked 15-20 hours a week when my son was a toddler/preschooler and he just started kindergarten this year. He is in full-day kinder, 9-3. I have no idea what I’d do with myself during the day, while he is in school, if I didn’t have a job. A lot of volunteer work? Clean the house to spotless condition every day? (I suck at that, BTW). I imagine that most of the SAHDs mentioned in this thread will do exactly what I did as a SAHM, and go back to work (at least part-time) when the kids are in school.

                A to Z, sorry to say this but I kind of get the sense from your comments that A. you are either old, or old-school and B. you’re a guy. It’s all good if the SAHD model wouldn’t work for your family, but it does work for a lot of families. Life is expensive and there’s a lot to do to keep a household running, as you point out. But, my husband – who is the primary breadwinner and as I mentioned upthread, makes 5 times what I do – did the last clothes clean-out and the last three birthday parties. My husband does a ton of stuff that are typical “mom jobs” and I do a lot of jobs that are typical “dad jobs” (like planning our upcoming major landscaping project). These roles may be rigidly-defined in your house, but they’re not in mine. It may not make sense to some but it makes sense to us. All families need to run their lives in a way that works for them, period.

             5. Of course things change and our situation will evolve as our kids get older – I’m certainly not naive enough to think it will always be like that. But once the kids are in school, then my husband has lots of options during the day. He can go back to teaching, he can tutor or do educational consulting or get a phd. As for expenses, yes kids get more expensive as they get older, but the point is that I am on partnership track so if we are successful and I make partner, our income level will be exponentially higher and certainly cover all of those costs equally. Plus I’ll have my law school loans paid off by then. And we have both agreed multiple times that if I ever decide to leave the firm, whether to go in house or because I don’t make partner or if I was laid off, that we would re-evaluate our current setup and that he may have to go back to work. However, with the cost of childcare, by the time you take a teacher’s salary and subtract out taxes, it would basically be a wash. Again, once the kids are in school, then childcare costs go down so the economic part of the decision changes. What I do know is that it would be close to impossible for me to put in the time required to truly be on partnership track if my husband was currently working, because at that point my little non-working time would be spent doing all the household stuff he currently does during the day so I’d lose out on the time with my kids that right now I still have time for. In a way, the loss of his income is a calculated gamble that our income will be significantly higher in a few years because I’ll be making bonuses that are more than his annual salary was. That may not be true if both spouses are in high paying jobs where you’re losing a lot more salary if one stays at home.

       2. I think you are absolutely right. And when I was last in Biglaw (about 8 years ago), probably half the women who had just made senior partner had a spouse who stayed home with the kids or what was essentially a work from home p/t job (another one of my friends who made partner, who is gay, also had his spouse stay home f/t to take care of their kids). Biglaw is set up for lawyers with a spouse who can play the supporting role. If you can make that work, and it sounds like you have, you are at a real advantage. It is much more of a struggle when you have two demanding jobs to struggle, and for me, the struggle simply wasn’t worth the sacrifices.

          1. Sorry, that should be two demanding jobs to juggle

   14. The plan for my husband and I has always been that he will be the stay-at-home Dad and down the road, possibly even home school our children. The job he wants to be in very shortly has the flexibility to allow this, and he would also be able to work from home. My job will allow me to work from home one day a week as well (on average). While we don’t have children yet, we do aspire to him being the primary care provider while I am at work.

       1. Oh, and I forgot to add to the list of expenses braces. One of our children will be needing them for the second time, and the other child will be needing them soon. Make sure as the sole breadwinner you are prepared to pay for all of that. Also, make sure you have ample life insurance. You never know. I would be interested in knowing how much life insurance breadwinner women have. And as for decorating, I use that term loosely. For me, furnishing and decorating a comfortable home for children to grow up in and in which to entertain friends and family is hard work. That has nothing to do with cleaning and maintenance. Just picking, buying, assembling, etc. appropriate furnishings in the first place. Then try moving into an older home that needs new carpeting, window treatments, updating, etc. Picking and arranging for all of that. Oh yeah, and the cost. Furnishing today’s average home can be $20-$50 grand. Be prepared to pay for all of that too.

          1. A to Z, I know you are trying to be helpful, and I am taking your comments in that spirit. All the things you list are difficult, but they are equally as difficult for me as for my husband, and we are both able to rise to the challenge.

             We don’t have kids yet, but my husband’s dad was a SAHD and he would like to be a SAHD too, now that we’re discussing children. This is great, because I don’t really want to be a SAHM and worry about window treatments. While I would of course prefer to have fewer (or no!) responsibilities, I’m prepared to, yes, pay for braces and bills and insurance and college.

             I appreciate your observation above that “what worked before may stop working,” and I think it’s important to have that reminder to stay flexible from someone with a little more experience.

             My parents both cycled between full-time/part-time/work-at-home schedules while I was growing up, and that’d be my ideal… it’s unfortunate that so many of the jobs I’m interested in don’t really allow that kind of flexibility.

          2. A to Z, both of my kids have or had braces and I earn enough to pay for them. Does it bother you in some way that there are women who earn enough by themselves to pay for such things?

          3. To answer one of your questions – I have independent $1M term insurance policies for each child, plus the 2x salary my work pays as a benefit, plus some whole life intended to be used for retirement, but would pay upon my death if earlier. Our estate would also inherit my 401Ks and vested pensions.

             You are right to bring up the financial planning, though. Any couple with children should have contingency plans such as life insurance in place.

             1. Mamabear, we probably have a lot in common, and obviously everyone’s personal circumstances are unique. My comments are intended to generate thought, and I don’t have the answers. First, the younger generation may not be aware of what lays ahead in terms of expenses and otherwise when they decide to have dad stop working to take care of the kids. So for those people, hopefully I have given them a few more things to think about. The second point is, and I know the words can be emotionally charged, is this why women have progressed in the workplace, to be the sole supporters of families and husbands? I guess in the end, it is a personal decision, but the younger generation should think this through before blindly taking on this burden.

          4. A to Z, your posts ignore the possibility that by one parent staying home, the other can focus more fully on their career and possibly have much greater career success than they would otherwise. If the working parent becomes partner at a law firm for example, and they would not have been able to travel or work the requisite hours without a stay at home parent to take care of all the other details, the family is monetarily much better off.

             Even in cases where the career trajectory of the working spouse isn’t altered by the other staying home, if one spouse is making six figures, the effect of higher taxes on the lower salary (due to the tax bracket of the higher salary) plus childcare costs may result in the family losing money by having both parents working.

             1. By the way, in case anyone is still reading this thread or if anyone cares, I am not a guy as one poster suggested, I am not terribly old (in my forties), I don’t know what old school means in this context as I support our family of four with my six-figure lawyer income, and so obviously the roles are not rigidly defined in our family, I come from a long line of professional women who were married with children including a Ph.D. college science professor, an ivy league educated lawyer, and a high level scientist, so I don’t think my comments should just be blown away or taken too lightly. We should actually be outraged that in this day and age and in this country we don’t have adequate child care for working women and that in order for women to succeed at a high level in big law they have to take on such family unfriendly roles.

             2. A to Z, I am still reading (I seem to have subscribed to comments, so I received ~400 emails this weekeend!)

                I didn’t think you were a man or a troll. I do think it’s important to think about the issues you raised (and even the issues Ellen raised, above. While my husband was a SAHD, I seriously thought every time we had a fight – and we had a lot – “omg, i’m going to end up paying this man alimony and child support!”)

                Your tone perhaps came across as a little combative, but as we know, tone is difficult to read over email and forums like this one. You seem to be somewhat resentful that you are the breadwinner in your family & I get that.

                But since we fought this hard to be equals in the workplace, and if everything gets to the point of being truly gender neutral and balanced, 50% of working women will make more than their male peers. Personally, that’s a problem I’m glad to have.

             3. A to Z – You raise good points all around, but why would the expenses and duties (braces to decorating) be any different for a SAHM? The other parent in that case has the same burdens, whether that working parent is male or female. I don’t think it’s any harder for a woman to take on paying for braces than it is for a man, or more difficult somehow for a man to plan the household furnishings. (In our case, my husband is the decorator, and I’m great with furniture assembling instructions. A hidden talent.)

   15. May be to late for you to see this, but we did it for one year. Was great for the kids, but not so great for our marriage. The change in dynamics was difficult for us. He was AWESOME with the kids, but he was miserable because he is not cut out for not working outside the home. It wasn’t permanent, just waiting for the next hiring cycle of his new career path, but as rewarding as being with the kids after school etc.. was, he felt very isolated, and it was very tiring for me to be his wife and his social life. I am still the primary income earner, but everyone is much happier now that he is working outside the home again.

   16. I’m really late with comments, but if beccavt is still reading, here goes. My husband was a WAHD when my first child was born. This was a huge benefit since he basically “wore” my son around all the time while I literally pumped 24-7. He ended not working so much during the day, but making up for it at night. It was really tough on him, but he wanted to help. I wasn’t working at the time but we also weren’t going out much and didn’t hire help (highly recommended after the fact), so while we weren’t saving, we didn’t spend as much as we usually did.
       There was a little curiosity from our traditional neighbors and a few dirty looks from a neighbor who assumed that DH was just loafing around. So when neighbor’s wife asked, DH explained he worked from home and didn’t have to travel as much. We didn’t let it bother us as we don’t care what our neighbors think of us and we didn’t tell my monster in laws about the arrangement.

       Fast forward a few years to after I had my second kid. i am still a SAHM but working part-time from home as an attorney. DH now working outside home, so we hired help as I’m not as domestic as DH who is more competent at cooking and cleaning. Future plan is I consult on a p/t basis as a writer/editor while DH goes full steam ahead in consulting. His dream is to retire early and spend more time with the kids. We are both in our upper 30s and what I wish i had done earlier is analyze my personality and suitability for staying at home. Frankly, I’m not as suited to it as my DH and wished I had continued working F/T. Regardless of who stays at home, we would hire a p/t housekeeper so we can focus on the kids. My advice is to do what’s best for your family regardless of the naysayers!

3. My husband was a SAHD when my girls were little, and now has been trying to turn a hobby into a business, so he’s really more of a WAHD. Our kids are now in elementary school, so, while he’s not making much (okay, any) money, at least we don’t have much in the way of child care costs (except in the summer). It’s generally worked out well for us; I always had a higher-earning career, whereas he was completely uninspired by his. If he really can turn the hobby into a supporting business, that would be awesome and inspiring, but, in truth, we’re getting beyond the years where I thought we’d be single-earning, so that can be a mental drain on me. Advice item number one: do talk up front about how long you anticipate the single-earning will last. It’s hard to return to the workforce, for all sorts of reasons, and will require a big commitment on his part. Also, as he’s worked more, obviously his home-care time has diminished. He still handles a lot of the interstitial child care – the odd school holiday from teacher in-service and such, the sick kids, the (many) times I have to work late – but he’s become a lot more slack on things like laundry and shopping. Which is frustrating to me, and we’ve had to work on the dynamics there.

   Also: it’s isolating for him. Extremely isolating. And this is sort of his nature anyway, he’s not an extrovert, at all. The years of SAHD’ing, now with the years of self-employed WAHD’ing, combined with a tendency to depression and isolation . . . it has had its low moments. This part is more about my husband, of course, but you might want to be on the lookout for it. There are a fair number of SAHDs in our community, or families where the dads are the more involved parent in school activities, etc. So if he were a different person, I think he would have been able to find support systems. But it takes putting yourself out there – as lots of SAHMs have discovered as well.

   1. Sorry, that was supposed to be a reply to beccavt. Woops!

   2. My husband stays at home with our toddler and we have another one on the way. We have a nanny 3 days a week and do a mothers day out program 2 days a week that we started when our son turned 1. Our nanny had leg surgery last month and is out for a few months so he has been full time lately with his school being closed. I have been trying to stay home a little later or come home earlier every day so my husband can go to the gym or just grab a coffee.

      He does a great job and was already doing all the cooking before we had a baby. I am fine with cereal for dinner so he decided early on to take over the cooking. He has recently started the grocery shopping too. We have a housekeeper that does the heavy lifting but I try to be helpful when I get home at night and not be too fussy if the toys are still all over the house. I also try to take over on weekends because it gives him a break and gives me a chance to catch up on the new things my son started doing that week.

      My husband worked a lot overseas before we had a baby but his earning power is less than mine now stateside. He does small amounts of contract work but basically he stays home. His biggest problem is other stay at home moms that won’t even talk to him at the park. He tried to join a moms club that meets at area parks for stroller rides and play dates but they wouldn’t let him join. He does story time a lot and I think there are a few other dads there so it’s becoming more common.

      It works for us and our families haven’t said too much about it. I read something before we even had a baby that said as long as what the other parent isn’t doing anything dangerous, then let them do it there way. I try really hard to stick to that. I don’t like that he lets him play so hard that he passes out in the floor instead of sticking to a nap schedule and I don’t like the way he dresses our son most days but it’s not the end of the

      1. “He tried to join a moms club that meets at area parks for stroller rides and play dates but they wouldn’t let him join.”

         Seriously? Why not? This makes no sense to me.

         1. I work and hubby is SAHD and this doesn’t surprise me. Some stay at home moms are very territorial about it , I guess maybe they are threatened that if a man can do the same job they are doing, that it’s not “magical womens business”? Some reactions I have had from other women at work have been along the same lines, very quizzical and thinking it’s a bit weird. Perhaps they are jealous becaue their kid is in daycare, but that’s their problem. The majority of people think it’s great and are really open minded. I find that if you present it to people like a positive thing, they generally take their cue from you.
            Their can be issues, because unlike a nanny you can’t quite tell hubby “follow this routine, this diet, baby wears these clothes” etc. That can be hard when hubby doesn’t have the same detail orientation as you. I have always dated pretty open minded men, and would not have gotten serious with someone who would have been opposed to being a SAHD. Having seen my mother suffer from staying home with kids when she wanted to have a career, that was pretty important to me.

4. That clutch goes on sample sale in NYC for $60 :)

5. Anyone out there have a good recommendation for an ergonomically helpful, and hopefully somewhat stylish/professional, bag? Between my distance running, handbags, heels, two trials last fall (one several hours of car driving away), and who knows what other bad influences, I’ve been having a lot of back pain over the last couple of months. I don’t want to give up the distance running and I don’t think mu firm will let me give up the trials, so I’m trying to change the shoes and bags. I don’t want to go to a backpack due to flashbacks to my student days. Has anyone tried the Healthy Back Bags? Other recommendations?
   Thanks in advance!

   1. “My” firm, not “mu” firm. Sigh. Clearly proofreading is not my strong suit today.

   2. You might look into Cross-body bags. Endless.com has a bunch in different price ranges right now.

   3. Do you have a rolling bag? If you’re bringing work or your laptop home, you could roll the heavy things and stick with a smaller and lighter handbag. Have you looked into massage therapy? I was having a lot of back pain for reasons similar to yours and finally got it to go away with therapy. I was pleasantly surprised that my health insurance covered the visits.

      1. I do have a massage therapist who is wonderful (not covered by insurance, though — I’m very jealous!), and try to use a rolling bag whenever I can. My purse/handbag really is a problem, though — no matter how little I put in it (I’m down to a wallet, three or four pens, phone, lip balm, business cards, and feminine products when necessary), it seems to exacerbate the pain.

         Now that I’ve written that list, maybe I should just switch to a wristlet?

         1. What about having an inside pocket sewn into your jackets for anything you can’t fit into your wallet? Then just get a nice wallet and carry that separately?

         2. If that small amount of stuff is causing you pain you probably have a pinched or damaged nerve. Skip the chiropractor/massage therapist for now and go to a joint doctor. If they don’t think it’s a nerve, have them check for bone spurs. (A swimmer I know recently went in for surgery for a torn labrum: she had a bone spur that was actually cutting her labrum. The doctor ground down the bone and expects her shoulder to heal on its own.) Swimmers get lots of shoulder injuries and you sound like you have a real injury and not just fatigue.
            And if your doctor suggests physical therapy: do it! It’s time consuming but you only get one body.

            Good luck!

   4. I love Osprey’s messenger bags. They’re so comfortable and thoughtfully constructed. Unfortunately, they are not very professional looking, unless you’re a professional bike messenger. Have you seen a chiropractor for your back? That might help as much if not more than a new bag.

   5. Crossbody and messenger bags give me severe back pain, I just can’t deal with it. I stick to totes that only go on one shoulder and a schoolbag if I absolutely can’t deal with a purse. I’m in a less formal industry, so it’s ok to have a schoolbag/backpack.

   6. is your desk/workstation set up correctly? If this hasn’t been checked for you, I would request it – there may be a tweak in there that could help you with relief.

6. As some of you may remember, I asked awhile ago about whether to travel or work the summer between first and second year of law school. I just booked the ticket – so excited! I’ll be travelling through Europe solo for three months. If anyone has any advice for solo travel, I would greatly appreciate it!

   1. There was a conversation about that in December, and thanks to reading all of the fancy search tips in this morning’s post, I successfully located it, and will post the link below.

      Other than that, I’m super excited for you! Do you know where in Europe you’ll be going yet?

      1. https://corporette.com/2011/12/15/thursdays-tps-report-short-sleeve-pique-modal-wrap-dress-with-woven-skirt/

         1. Thanks! I looked and couldn’t find that thread, lol. I was hoping to start in London and work my way around the continent – Paris – Brussels – Copenhagen – Amsterdam then through Prague and Vienna and down to Italy, and across southern France to Spain. :)

            1. That sounds amaaaazing! I’ve spent quite a bit of time in Italy, and a fair amount in Spain, so if you’d like any specific recommendations for those, I’d be happy to share :) just let me know!

            2. Specific recommendations for Spain would be wonderful, I seem to find a lot about France but not as much about Spain!

            3. 1L, if you want some rec for southern France, I may help (OK, my knowledge is limited and I’m not overly fond of the area but there are some nice places).
               I’d also say : don’t stress too much about looking like a tourist and how people judge you. Mostly they don’t care. As long as your are nice and polite, it’s all well. Just enjoy your trip! In Paris, people may sneer, but sneering is kind of a local hobby (been there and sneered as well – oh, to be young and snobby again !). And you’ll see local people in sneakers and tee-shirts as well :)

               My two favorite European cities are Berlin and London, and in both cities people were awesome despite my definite lack of style and poor accent :)

   2. I do remember :)

      I used the lonely plant’s “Europe on a shoestring” and they have sort of set-up plans for making it through Europe in various amounts of time- and more importantly (or at least I found), it gave a suggested daily budget for each country, which was really really useful for judging whether something was more than I needed to spend, etc.

      My biggest piece advice for travelling solo is to be open to making new friends, and doing new things. Some of my favourite sites were things that I thought would be boring (e.g. the Borghese Gardens in Rome). And also, just spend some days relaxing, don’t be constantly rushing through seeing things, it’s totally okay to be tired, and just spend the day lazing about at a cafe reading, etc.

      I’m so jealous, I really wish I was spending this summer gallivanting around Europe again. Though I guess being finished my articles will be good too, since I’m plan on going back for 3 weeks:)

   3. I travelled alone through Europe, Asia, and Latin America for months at a time, and I really enjoyed it. My best advice is to stay in youth hostels so you can pick up travel companions if/when you want company. Plus there is usually a communal dinner table so you can chat with people and not be too totally isolated. A lot of youth hostels also offer guided tours because sometimes, planning and executing a day’s sightseeing gets a bit tiresome.

      Pack even lighter than you think you need to! Take at least two pairs of some really comfortable shoes (cobblestones are MURDER on your feet) and switch them up so your feet don’t get too battered.

      Have a great time!

      1. agreed with the cobblestones. Charming for photos and looking at. The worst for walking. Worst.

         And don’t only pack light, but pack things that you can easily wash in a sink and hang to dry, if needed. I wore a lot of lululemon, which I get is so touristy, but honestly…so easy to deal with. And I packed a few of their summer dresses, which were easy to wash and toss back in my bag as needed, and good for the days when I wanted to look cuter.

         1. Oh, lulu sounds like a great idea! How much did you take with you? I plan on taking a large “backpacking” backpack full, but am considering taking a suitcase on wheels instead.

            1. Nix the suitcase on wheels….if cobblestones are bad for feet, it is even more difficult to pull around a wheeled suitcase on them. A backpack is the way to go.

            2. for Europe, I took an Eagle Creek backpack. My outfits were three pants/jeans, two pairs of shoes, a few tees and cardigans, two bras, about 10 pairs of socks and underpants, two pairs of yoga pants, and a couple of those bra-camis tops for sleeping. I would do laundry every week or so – either drop them off at a local laundrymat and pick up later, or use the laundry facilities at the youth hostel.
               I didn’t care too much about looking touristy either!

            3. I agree with Nonny. Plus, you will have both hands free with a backpack, which can be very important.

            4. Alright then – backpack it is :-)

            5. There are a few brands that sell rolling convertible travel backpacks in carry-on size. Osprey Meridian 22″ Wheeled Convertible is one that is supposed to be sized for women. Eagle Creek makes one. Check rei dot com or ebags dot com for options. Pricy but it’s what I’d get if I was doing that type of trip (having done similar Europe trips in the past).

            6. One point I would add re: clothing. This thread has great advice on some of the kinds of things to pack (breathable Ts, a cardigan, etc.), but I would also advise thinking about what you like to wear and bring that. You will be there three months and want to feel like yourself. I only say this because I followed advice the first time I went to Europe to buy all the comfy, easy-to-pack clothes and felt touristy and uncomfortable. I am more of a skirt and cardigan person on any given day, and that is actually a really easy (and stylish) way to travel. Just do what makes you feel comfortable. And if you didn’t pack just the right clothes, there will be lots of great shopping to fill out your travel wardrobe. Happy travels!

         2. Another nix on the rolling suitcase – in many train stations, you’ll end up carrying it up and down, which is a pain, even if it isn’t that heavy! It always ends up being easier for me to take a backpack.

   4. Congrats! Sounds like a great time.

      I have traveled alone twice in Mexico and Chile. One thing I really liked about it was shopping and art museums because I could stay as long as I wanted without worrying that I was holding people up.

      I would second the recommendation to stay in youth hostels. The one thing I don’t like about traveling alone is eating alone, and the hostels help you find people to go to dinner with or cook with. Maybe this isn’t an issue at all for you though… might be me being weird.

      In Chile I had the worst stroke of bad luck and managed to lose my debit card and credit card in separate incidents. I was pretty much hysterical, but called my dad and it turned out to be actually really easy for him to wire money. I’m sure nothing like this will happen to you, just sharing because that’s sort of a worst case scenario for a solo traveler, and it worked out just fine!

   5. Advice for Euro travel–you want comfy shoes, but not sneakers that scream “I am an American tourist.” Co-sign the “do not bring a rolling suitcase” advice–buy a backpack and keep it on the small side–you will fill it with shopping treasures, I promise. Also, it is hot, so think about bringing skirts and tank tops and a thin scarf to cover your shoulders. There are a lot of places in Europe (cathedrals) where baring shoulders is not allowed. If you are staying at a hostel, pack flip flops for the shower that are all rubber (no Reefs)–you want them to dry. Bring a small towel that is thin, so it dries overnight, even when humid. Think about silk or breathable synthetic tops that you can wash in a hostel sink and have dry overnight. Bring a longer lock (akin to a cable lock for a bike) so that you can doze on trains and not worry about your backpack being stolen (this is SO KEY!). Also bring a lock to lock your backpack shut if you go to the shower–not all hostels have lockers to lock your valuables in. You also want a small sweater, like a cardi, that’s warm–a lot of Europe outside is hot, but the museums are chilly, so you’ll want it. Bring a packable, lightweight raincoat–it does rain in the summer in Europe a lot. Last, and this is very Type-A, but bring a highlighter and stick a bunch of post-its on the inside of your guide book–you will want to reference certain sections again and again, and it’s nice to have them marked.

      Remember that Europe is not Antarctica–it’s civilization. You can buy drugstore items as you need them and borrow from people in hostels–no need to pack a 10 pound toiletry kit.

      You may want to consider buying a “pay as you go” unlocked phone with a SIM card (you can buy this in Europe). You will use this a lot for hostel reservation calls. Also, contact all your friends on Facebook and ask for recs on friends to meet up with in Europe–getting a guided tour or the lowdown by meeting a friend-of-a-friend for coffee.

      Find a “purse” or handback that fits the following for your daily bag: wallet, guidebook, small snack, small water bottle, room for a small purchase and scarf/sweater/raincoat. You will carry this every day, so test out whether it digs into your shoulder or not and whether it could be ripped off easily by a pickpocket (think zipper and sturdy straps).

      There will be a lot of junk about pickpockets in the guidebooks. Use common sense. I was “pickpocketed” on a long-distance bus in Spain–I was reading, my bag was at my feet, and the guys behind me stole my wallet. It can happen. Keep some money separate and get an Amex card–there are Amex offices all over Europe where you can get cash in an instant if you need it.

      Test your pin for your ATM card. If it’s 5 digits, it may not be compatible in Europe. Ask your bank if they offer “chip and pin” cards. Some US cards are hard to use at train stations/auto kiosks in Europe because we are on a magnetic strip system.

      Make your itinerary “loose” in that if you want to stay a few more days somewhere, you should. However, know that some places are harder to get same-day hostel reservations in, so you may want to book in certain cities in advance (Barcelona, etc.). Let’s Go will advise you of this.

      I like Let’s Go guides best for hostel travel. Consider buying a limited Eurorail pass–you need to buy in the US. Get an STA Travel Student ID card here before you go–big discounts for museum entry and some places will not accept US university IDs–only this card.

      Check out the forums on LonelyPlanet.com, the Frugal Traveler on the NYT and budgettravel.com for more places to pick up tips.

      1. One note about sturdy straps- you don’t want them to be too sturdy. I had an acquaintance who ended up in a hospital after being dragged probably 30 feet by a drive-by pickpocket. She ended up flying back home to complete her recovery. I read of a similar incident in my local paper over the holidays, so it is not than uncommon an occurrence. At the end of the day, it’s far better to be alive and healthy without your purse than to be in a hospital thousands of miles from home unsure of how you’ll be able to afford everything.

      2. Wow, thank you for all of the incredibly helpful advice, especially regarding the packing. I am currently looking for a money belt and a traveling backpack to buy!

         Also, I’m currently reading the lonelyplanet book and it’s helpful, as the Let’s Go book must have been, regarding reservations. I plan to reserve my first night in each city while on the road, and then book additional nights when I’m there depending on if I like the hostel I’m staying at.

         1. If you stay in one of the official youth hostels, they will call the next hostel to make reservations for you.
            I forgot about flip-flops and a thin cotton towel – very important! You can just hang the towel on the rail of your bed and it will be dry by the next time you have to use it.
            Also I forgot that you might want to take your own pillowcase. I packed an entire sheet set (cheap thin cotton twin sheet set) and used it a LOT.
            Have a wonderful time planning!

      3. Sounds weird, but consider going to a bathroom or other private place if you need to consult a map or guide book. Reading a map in public just invites attention and advertises the fact you are a tourist which may be not be super safe.

         1. To be fair, if she’s going to the touristy places in the summer, chances are 95% of the people where she’s going will be tourists. In my experience, a lot of the places that are targeted are budget hotels/hostels. I can’t tell you how many people I know who’ve had valuables stolen from their hotel rooms (me included), even from safes/lockers. I stayed in one hostel with construction on the exterior and someone had his valuables stolen from about 1′ from his face when he was sleeping!

      4. I second getting a pay-as-you-go phone. I’m not sure what frequencies the European countries work on, but I think if you get a dual-band phone, it will work in all of Europe (no need for tri-band). Just ask wherever you buy one. Whenever I travel, I just buy a cheap local phone to use while I’m there, and it’s so nice (I literally bought a phone for 3 pounds when I was in Britain). I’ve never done multiple countries on one trip, so I’m not sure about that, but it shouldn’t be too hard–assuming it’s the right frequency, you can probably just switch out SIM chips.

         And regarding chip atm/credit cards, I noticed at the airport that one of the major currency exchanges is now offering chip debit cards to load up so you don’t run into problems with american magnetic strip only credit cards. That might be something to look into.

7. Although I primarily lurk rather than comment, I don’t feel like I have anywhere else to go for advice/consolation about this situation. Frankly I feel so despondent that I don’t even know what kind of advice or help I’m looking for, but most of my friends either don’t have any financial difficulties at all or are in the camp of “well you’re a lawyer so you make a ton of money and it can’t be that bad.”

   My SO moved with me when I started law school in a new city, and at least financially, this has been a total disaster. He works in a creative field and has been unable to find steady work since moving–at this point it has been 2 years. He had both student loan and commercial debt, as well as savings when he came down that were exhausted within about 4 months. He went through about a 9 month period without any income at all, and his only work otherwise has been contract/temp work. I have paid most of his rent and food expenses this entire time, but this was a huge hardship while I was a law student, even with my parents’ help. He has no family financial support at all. So the combination of long-term lack of income and not having all of his basic expenses covered resulted in him falling severely behind on his debt payments.

   We had thought things were looking up a little bit. I started working at a firm a few months ago where I make in the low six-figures, and my salary will be increasing at the end of February to almost market. He was working at a long-term contract assignment that was at least covering most of his minimum payments. However, my student loans from law school are astronomical (the minimum payments are almost half of my takehome pay) and I am still paying his rent and for almost all food, so our budget is still horribly tight. This was particularly the case because we had been living on nothing for so long that a lot of our cheap crap has had to be replaced (hello, professional wardrobe), which adds up even if you’re looking for bargains.

   Today, his contract job abruptly ended and he has no other prospects. I don’t know what we are going to do. He is so behind on his debt that it has gotten to the point of default (I am pretty sure he already has on his student loans), and I don’t know how I can cover both my ridiculous loan payments, his payments, rent, food, and have any left for savings. He can’t really change careers to something where there are jobs available because he only has an associates in his specific field, and even if he wanted to go back to school he would be ineligible for more loans (as if we need any more debt). We already are on such a budget that I don’t know if there’s anything else we can really cut. To top it all off, he just digs the hole deeper by 1) not mentioning when he is unable to pay something because he doesn’t want me to worry more, and 2) not having as much budgeting discipline as I do. These things were improving a lot, but now it’s kind of moot since he lost his job today.

   I just get so frustrated and depressed about this. I love him to death and I’m not angry at him because he honestly has been trying really, really hard, but I just hate being the breadwinner. Frankly, I hate my job and the entire legal profession, and I resent the fact that I’ll never be able to quit and do something less stressful because 1) I can’t even pay my debt on a lower salary, much less his, 2) he will never make enough to make up the difference, and 3) we will never be able to put enough toward savings that I could quit. I get incredibly anxious because I am sure I will be laid off from my firm before we are financially stable because I can only hide how much I hate it for so long. I’m quickly learning that working at a firm makes it incredibly difficult to keep a tight budget because there’s no time to implement money-saving strategies.

   Obviously I’m grateful to have a lucrative job and a roof over our heads; I really hope I am not coming off as an entitled jerk. But even with a high-paying job, the money’s just not coming in fast enough, and it just feels awful that we have tried to do everything we’re “supposed” to and things just keep getting worse. I guess I don’t even know what kind of advice I’m seeking accept maybe just some commiseration or an inspiring story or two, or maybe just some ideas about proactive things that will at least make me feel like I’m doing SOMETHING. Incidentally, I had already been trying to muster up the courage to make a therapy appointment, so I think I will definitely do that in the coming week as I have been putting enough in my HSA to cover that.

   1. Sorry to hear about your struggles. Money and love can get complicated so quickly.

      For whatever it’s worth, this comment is really troubling, though: “To top it all off, he just digs the hole deeper by 1) not mentioning when he is unable to pay something because he doesn’t want me to worry more, and 2) not having as much budgeting discipline as I do.” I believe strongly that good relationships are ones that foster security–emotional security and all other types. I know that this is a tough situation and the temptation to hide things from you must be very strong, but mature adults deal with these sorts of things–they don’t hide them. And he owes it to you to commit to a budget, even if that doesn’t come naturally to him. By hiding bad news and not sticking to a budget, he’s clearly not helping you feel–or be–financially secure. (And probably not helping with trust issues.)

      I guess what I’m trying to say is that there is nothing wrong with wanting a partner who makes you feel–and helps you be–financially secure. I get the sense that you think it would be “wrong” or “bad” to hold these things against him. But if he conceals things (even to save your feelings) and doesn’t seem to be committed to making things work (like with the budgets), those are legitimate, fair concerns. You need to decide whether these issues are important to you and, if so, how important it is. (Maybe the therapist can help.) Best luck no matter what you do.

   2. First of all, major hugs. That whole situation sounds incredibly stressful and overwhelming, so I’m glad that you’re considering making an appointment with a therapist, just so that you have a neutral third party to talk to about everything you’re going through.

      Obviously, no one can offer you a magic wand solution to this, but one thing kind of jumped out at me–if your SO can’t find work in his field, why doesn’t he look for work outside of it? I’m not talking a job that would require him to go back to school; I mean retail, food service, anything to avoid another nine-month period where you’re the only person bringing in any kind of income.

      If I were in your position, I would also make the time to create a budget, even if it means taking a sick day or something. And make sure that your SO is committed to sticking to it.

      I’m sure other commenters will be able to give you more advice, so I just want to reiterate how impressed I am with your ability to handle that level of financial stress for so long. Good luck! Know that we’re all rootin’ for ya :)

   3. Sounds like you are having a rough time. Obviously I don’t know your bf personally, but i’ve known a few people and lived with one, who could “only” work in a limited field. Then I know other people who would work at mcdonalds to make sure they could pay the bills. It seems like your bf is the former. As you describe the relationship now, you are probably headed towards being the sole breadwinner always. I know you love him dearly, but sometimes love really isn’t enough. I hope this isn’t too harsh, but i’ve been there myself and known others who have as well and those of up who moved on ended up in much better financial positions and much happier in the long run while the struggling exes are still struggling.

      1. This. I did love my ex, but I knew his 6 figure debt for a liberal arts degree in an extremely specialized field (which, best case scenario, would result in a job he’d get paid maybe $50k tops in) just wasn’t going to ever be wiped away without major help on my part. And after a certain point, I got tired of assuming responsibility for a debt I didn’t create, especially when it meant I couldn’t save for myself, a home, retirement, etc. You love him, but it doesn’t mean you have to accept responsibility for his bad financial choices.
         It may sound harsh, but I’d seriously reevaluate whether or not you want to be in this relationship long term if it means not being able to do basic things like change careers, have a home, earn enough to support children, etc.

   4. Sorry to hear about your troubles. I remember being really stressed out about student loans and debt during my first few years out of law school when I had my student loan payments plus a husband in law school generating more student debt and tuition bills and bringing in no income. I similarly felt that we would never get ahead. It will get better.

      Here are some things I would think about doing so you can get on your feet and make a fresh start:

      1) Can he declare bankruptcy and get rid of his commercial debt?
      2) Can he get a forebearance on all of his non-dischargeable student debt at least until he has a job (scary I know but we had to do this with my student loans for 1 year, and it worked out just fine)?
      3) Can you consolidate your student loans and get them on a 30-year repayment plan? That should significantly reduce the monthly payment and give you some breathing room in your budget for now. You can always double up the payments later if you want to and can afford it.
      4) It sounds like you’re fairly new at your current job, but think about down the road looking for another one that doesn’t make you miserable. I worked at 2 biglaw jobs that I hated out of law school and then found a small firm position that I really really love. The culture of the office, the personalities of the people you work with/for and the quaility of mentors really make all the difference in whether you love or hate your job. And you don’t have to assume that non-biglaw work will not be as lucrative. I make as much per hour as my biglaw contemporaries (I work part time).

      Good luck!

   5. I can absolutely sympathize with making a salary that sounds gigantic to most people, but still living paycheck to paycheck. It’s a terrible feeling. And money issues in relationships are the worst.

      Without knowing you or him, obviously, reading this made me wonder what you are getting out of the relationship. You say you love him, so I assume you are emotionally fulfilled, enjoy spending time with him, etc. Presumably, he also gets the same things from you–but he also gets a lot more. You pay his loans, his rent, his food, it sounds like everything. What does he do to try and even the scale a bit? Does he keep the house clean, handle chores, that sort of thing? Honestly, it sounds like–rather than trying to provide in non-financial ways–he makes things worse by overspending somebody else’s money. This makes me wonder if you are being taken advantage of.

   6. I also hate to sound harsh, but unless you’re married or in a long-term commitment (I know some people don’t ever want to be married, so whatever the “lifetime” option is for you), I don’t think you have any obligation to pay any of his debts, rent, food, etc. If you are still inclined to pay for things, I think you need to take a hard line and set a monthly allowance. I can’t tell if you have separate bank accounts, but if you don’t, I strongly suggest getting a separate account, and only transferring the allowance into his account. Put the responsibility on him to keep a budget, and don’t let his poor budget choices affect your hard-earned money. I’m personally not a fan of living together before marriage, but if you don’t have a problem with it, I would advise against paying two rents, two utility bills, etc. If your life is so meshed together financially, I don’t understand why it wouldn’t also be meshed emotionally/commitment, etc. by marriage/co-habitation and other “striving together for the long-haul” marks of a relationship.
      Regarding the employment, he needs to suck it up and take any job that will pay him anything. Yes, that might be flipping burgers or delivering newspapers, but going 9 months without earning or contributing to your own life needs is ridiculous. I say this as someone with a shiny degree that had to become a barista because the market just wouldn’t have me for about a year and a half, and I darn-sure wasn’t going to stop contributing over an issue of pride.
      Also, this lack of ability to budget and the lame (in my harsh opinion) excuse for secrecy is a huge red flag in the relationship. You’re killing yourself to support another fully capable adult, and he’s… what? Too lazy? Too stupid? Too prideful? What character flaw does he have that makes him unable to contribute or be appreciative of your support by at least sticking to a reasonable budget?
      Finally, for some budget tips/hardcore money advice, check out Early Retirement Extreme blog by Jacob Fiskar, and Mr. Money Mustache (should find him via Google). Both have budget and investing strategies to get you on track. I’m sorry for a seemingly judgy and harsh reply, but this situation just sounds terrible for someone who is obviously bright and hard-working.

      1. A lot of people get overly hung up on the “moral issues” of living together outside of marriage. But I think that this post, and the response above, give a good explanation of why, in some (not all!) cases, it can be problematic practically speaking.

         I’m not saying don’t ever do it (I did, though it was with my now-husband after we already knew we were getting married), what I’m saying is that this is a not uncommon pitfall that a lot of people don’t appreciate before it’s too late. (This has nothing, really, to do with the OP, I guess – who I feel for but don’t know if I can offer much advice to – but I know that a lot of peole go around wondering about it, and I’m all about cautionary tales.)

         (And I totally agree that he needs to find something. There are table-waiting jobs all over that are tailor-made for someone who just needs to feed himself while he tries to get a real job. (Schedules are easily manipulatable.) If he won’t get one, there are bigger problems out here then just financial.)

         1. I don’t think the issue is living together before or after marriage. The problem is doing either of those things (co-habitating or marrying, in whatever order) before you have a serious discussion about finances.

            Plenty of people marry first, then move in, and still have major money issues to work out. And in the OP’s case, she would then be legally tied to her husband’s debts.

            The bottom line is – before it gets serious, talk about money.

            (And good luck to the OP. As I said below, he needs to get a job.)

            1. This. Marriage would only make that situation a whole lot worse.

            2. Oh, no, I’m definitely not saying that they should get or be married. More that folks should have worked this out before living together, and that one should look really think long and hard about living with someone (because your finances almost always DO get entangled eventually) that they are not willing, ready, and able to go all in with. (In other words, don’t think that you’re not ready to get married, so you’ll just live together for a while.)

         2. My sister never married her ex, and part of the reason she never did was that he could never get his finances together. She got a lot of flak for “living in sin” (they even had kids together) but in hindsight, it was a really smart decision not to marry him. She would have gotten sucked into some really bad “investments” that would have ended up making her a co-filer on bankruptcy. So one plus for living together rather than getting married.

            The downside is that now that they’re no longer together, he is also really good about evading child support. But that would have been the case whether they had gotten married or not.

      2. This is good advice.

         And if you let this continue–without setting boundaries to protect yourself and your future,–you’re going to set up the expectation that you will always be the ‘provider’ and that he will never have to take on that responsibility for himself or solve his own problems.

   7. You don’t sound like an entitled jerk. It sounds like you’re in a terribly stressful situation and have been managing the best you can. So, huge hugs to you.

      I hate to automatically jump on the boyfriend’s case, but it seems like he needs to be doing more to help out financially. He really needs to get a job — any job — ASAP even if it’s not in his desired field. I’m sure there will be a strong temptation to wallow in self-pity and retreat since he just lost his job … he just can’t right now. There’s no safety cushion.

      From the way you’ve phrased things, I’m worried that at best, the boyfriend doesn’t realize the severity of the situation, and at worst, is taking advantage of the fact that you earn a good living. Are your finances joint or separate? Have you worked on a household budget together, particularly if that isn’t his strong suit?

      I think seeking therapy is an excellent idea, even if it’s just to have a sounding board in during a tough transition time.

   8. Why is he making no money? You say he’s in a creative field, but even people in creative fields have to pay the rent. If he’s not getting enough work in his creative field, then he’s going to have to moonlight. Starbucks, teaching art/music/dance to children, bartending at the wine bar at Nordstroms… whatever… he needs to make some money and contribute his share. You can figure out an equitable distribution (like if you make 100K and he makes 30K, you can pay $1000 towards the rent and he can pay $300), but him paying no rent and nothing towards groceries is simply not fair.

      And don’t pay his debts for him. You simply don’t have enough money to cover it. If he defaults and ruins his credit and ends up bankrupt, too bad. He should get a second job to pay his bills, not expect his girlfriend to cover it until she’s so taxed that she’s on the brink of a meltdown.

      I know this all sounds harsh, but in my opinion, being in a low-paying, limited-work field is a luxury, not a right. If he can’t make enough money to pay his bills without putting enormous strain on you, he needs to rethink his career and either find a way to make more money in his chosen field or change into a field with enough work for him to pay for his basic expenses (food, rent, credit cards, etc).

      1. This.

      2. Ditto.

      3. This.

      4. They have a wine bar at Nordstroms? Wow!

         To the OP: He needs to declare bankruptcy and get rid of what debt he can. He then needs to get some job, any job, even if he thinks its beneath him, and start supporting himself. I’m sure you feel somewhat responsible for his situation, as he moved to be with you when you went to school, but I bet you didn’t agree to support him while he fussed around being picky about jobs and running up even more debt. Get him what professional help is available and if it doesn’t work cut him loose. It’s not your fault, and it’s not what you signed up for.

         1. random – Mrs. Tulkinghorn, is this a reference to Bleak House? if so, love it.

      5. “Why is he making no money? You say he’s in a creative field, but even people in creative fields have to pay the rent. If he’s not getting enough work in his creative field, then he’s going to have to moonlight. Starbucks, teaching art/music/dance to children, bartending at the wine bar at Nordstroms… whatever… he needs to make some money and contribute his share.”

         This. My husband graduated from school with a master’s in a not-practical or in-demand field and a lot of debt. He went to work at a Kinko’s, working the 2-10 pm shift as a copier jockey to pay his bills. Through that job at Kinko’s, he met a guy, who introduced him to some people who gave him a better job (that had nothing to do with his “field,” such as it was). Then he got a better job, and a better job, and a better job. In my experience, this is generally how it works for most people. This is the “networking” in careers that has nothing to do with cocktail parties; it has to do with actually being out of your pajamas and not sitting around watching Survivor reruns all day.

         Not working if the job is “not in your field” can be a real trap. Generally working at least gets people out there. When you’re working, you’re producing something, creating a work history, adding to your skill set (even if the new skills involve food service), meeting people, and making connections that generally lead to future jobs. Not to be harsh, but the OP’s significant other is going to have a better chance of getting his next “in-field” job working as a bartender at Nordstrom’s than he will sitting on his ass at home.

         It’s time for him to put on the big-kid underpants, swallow some pride, and go fill out some applications. In a tough financial situation there can be no waiting around for the perfect resume-building, reputation-enhancing, brag-at-cocktail-parties “in-field” job. He just needs a damn job. Having him be productive and putting some money in the kitty will help things tremendously. I also agree with the student-loan repayment restructuring and SO bankruptcy suggestions.

   9. Have you looked at extending out the repayment plan on your student loan. I understand that this generally is advisable. However, making yourself sick with worry over lack of money isn’t a better option.

      You say you have an “astronomical” student loan debt and pay half of your take home pay in debt payments.

      I make slightly less than you and have $150K in student loans. For my federal loans (the biggest chunk), I am on the extended repayment plan, which is 30 years. The private loans, I couldn’t do much about. But, with all my loans, I pay about $1,000 per month.

      In the long run, I’ll pay more interest and it will be FOREVER until I rid myself of student debt. But at least I have the cash now to 1) buy a professional wardrobe; and 2) build an emergency savings and I don’t have to feel like I’m living pay check to pay check.

      I’m sure others will disagree about this strategy, but it may cut your monthly payments now so you don’t feel so anxious about your financial situation.

      And, I agree, I think there are some issues you need to address with your SO about sticking to a budget, but that’s another issue altogether.

      1. This. I completely agree that this should be one of the first things you look into. As someone noted above, you can always double up and pay more down the road if you can afford it.

      2. This. It is a band-aid, not a solution, but this is where I’d start to get some breathing room. In fact, if you’re using 50% of take-home to pay loans, I would consider this even if you didn’t have the issues with the SO. You can overpay or get on a more aggressive plan down the road after you’ve saved and taken care of necessities.

         I’d also suggest that he look at putting his loans into forbearance status if at all possible. I think it definitely would be possible if he weren’t already behind. That may be the sticking point.

         Long-term, you and he need to think about his insistence on working only in his field, as others have mentioned. I have a sister who will only work in her very niche area of creative arts because **everything else ** is “too stressful” and it is infuriating when I get her debt collectors calling me at my office trying to smoke her out when I am billing my 224th hour for the month. (Sorry, personal rant over.)

   10. He needs to get over his pride and disappointment and get a job … as a waiter, as a security guard, a dog-walker, a house cleaner, cashier, pet-sitter, as whatever. It will obviously not be in his chosen field, and probably not anybody’s chosen field. But that’s life.

       Good luck to you.

   11. I am so, so sorry you are going through this. It sounds incredibly tough and I think you are completely normal for going through the range of emotions you are going through.

       I went through a really similar experience with my SO. We had a long-distance relationship and he moved to my state to be with me and we moved in together. I was in law school at the time and we figured I would use my student loans to cover our expenses for a few months until he found a job and then he would cover our expenses until I graduated and got a job. Well, the few months turned into over two years of him looking for a job and having ZERO income that entire time. It placed an enormous strain on our relationship, and on me personally. I cried literally every single day for over a year and felt very angry in addition to depressed. I kept telling myself not to be angry at him because he was trying so hard to get a job, but the truth is the depression he went into from the frustrating job search did affect his ability to put 100% of himself into anything, including our relationship, and I was angry at him and everything else despite my best efforts.

       When I graduated and started studying for the bar exam, and he still didn’t have a job, I was in a major panic, because I couldn’t get any more student loans and we just didn’t know what to do to afford basic day-to-day living expenses. I finally told him that if he didn’t find a job by the time I was finished with the bar exam, I would have no choice but to move back to my hometown to live with my parents and he would have to move back to his state where his family is and do the same. I didn’t want to break up with him, but it was simply of a matter of not having any other choice.

       He found a job a couple of weeks before I took the bar, and it is a dead-end job in a field he has no interest in. In any case, he is at least making enough money to cover rent and food and basic expenses, so we were narrowly able to avoid the disaster of moving out and essentially breaking up. It hasn’t been easy, and we are going to be in a really bad financial situation for a long time. Some days I still feel despondent. But the truly terrible days are over.

       My only advice is that sometimes, the only thing that makes the situation better is just…waiting for time to pass and eventually things do just get better. I know we were both angry that, like you, we did everything “right” and still ended up barely able to get by, with stress and anxiety and fear. But here we are, this is the life we have, and despite crying myself to sleep every day for a really long time, that passed and now I don’t cry anymore.

       If you think it’s worth it to stick out the relationship, know that relationships can survive defaulted loans, poverty, etc. I’m truly sorry you have to go through this and it’s certainly not your fault or “fair.” But you sound like a good person and at my core, I believe that if you continue to live your life right, eventually, eventually, eventually, you will get your due.

       1. OP here, I just wanted to thank you individually for your response because it is just so similar to how I am feeling. We were almost at the move-out point too my 3L year. Last summer when he got this long-term contract job that just ended, that was our light at the end of the tunnel because he was promised it would go through next year, giving him time to find something better and for me to start working. For him to be let go so much earlier than we anticipated and so early in my employment, before we’ve had time to save up some of my pay, is just so crushing because we had been so hopeful. It genuinely makes me feel better to know you have gone through this and gotten to a better place. Working in regional Biglaw makes you feel pretty alone if you’re having any financial distress, and all the non-law people we know are two-earner couples who have had steady work since their early twenties and are buying houses etc.

   12. Someone with only an associates should not be so picky as to “only work in their field”. Myself, and many law graduates are working non legal jobs to pay the bills. I knew someone who, while they were clerking, delivered pizza on the weekends so that they could pay their bills.

       it seems like you are way being taken advantage of, but we don’t know the whole story, as other people said….does he cook, clean, do laundry etc. I’m sure your job leaves you little time to do so.

       I hear that over half of divorces are over money. You need to put yourself first financially. However, I know many men who paid all the rent, food, utilities while they’re girlfriends lived with them while looking for work, finishing school etc. I would draw the line at paying any of his student loans or commercial debt though. You’d have the apartment anyway for yourself, so if it’s worth it to pay for his food for the companionship and emotional fulfillment, then that’s your personal decision.

   13. Oh my gosh hun… He is completely taking advantage of you. I don’t know how to phrase that less harsh. What would he do if you were not together. Would he honestly be homeless, living on the streets? I want to tell you about my situation- hopefully this doesn’t sound like I am going it to brag but I started law school six years ago. My bf came with me to a brand new city for both of us, no job in hand. He spent 4 months looking for a career job, and then took a part time job in food service because the economy was so bad. It became full time, then he was promoted to the corporate office. Did he want to work in that industry or that job? No. Did he because he needs to pull his own weight? Yes. Is he a hardworking man that succeeded? Yes. Now he has transitioned to a field he likes much better (and we’re married)

       You should not in anyway be paying your boyfriends debts. You should not be making his loan payments. The fact that he is unable to live within his means even with all this financial trouble is a severe red flag. I think its totally possible he loves you, but it is definately the case that he is taking advantage of you. Loving someone is different than loving someone in a way that makes you want to build a life with them. I loved my first college boyfriend. My first college boyfriend was also a bloodsucking leach who was stealing from me. You can love someone that is not a great person, and not a great person for you. Your boyfriend sounds like he is both of those things.

       Ah this sounds so harsh. I hope you can tell it is written in a really concerned way. I really feel for you.

       1. “Loving someone is different than loving someone in a way that makes you want to build a life with them. I loved my first college boyfriend. My first college boyfriend was also a bloodsucking leach who was stealing from me.”

          This x1000. From another woman who has been there.

   14. Excellent advice from everbody above. Just want to make sure you’re also thinking long term – do you want children? How are you going to afford them if you current BF cannot get his act together? Is he the future father of your children? I understand that you love him and you’ve obviously stuck it out a long time, giving him multiple chances. He doesn’t seem to have remedied the situtation despite ample opportunity to do so (at least 3 years since you finished law school). In my honest opinion, he either needs to start showing some motivation in his life or you need to get out. Harsh, but someone has to say it. I sincerely wish you the very best – please stop and think about what your future will be like with this BF and acknowledge the hardships your will face for the rest of your life if you stay together.

   15. OP here again. Thanks for the responses both here and below, and I’ll just say many of the various points about this situation being troublesome with regard to the viability of this relationship are things I have considered before. A little more context to address some issues raised in the reply, especially because without realizing it I think I made myself sound like more of an innocent party than I am:

       The concerns about him concealing things from me and him taking advantage of me are sort of interrelated. A big reason we went through his savings so fast was that he REALLY didn’t want me to pay any of his way. Like, at all. So he tried to pay me rent and pay for half the food for the first couple of months we were in the new city, and I was the one who put my foot down and said that this was ridiculous once I realized how long it looked like he would be unemployed. He actually wanted to file for personal bankruptcy last year rather than take my money, which I did not like, and this was when his concealing these problems was at its worst. Since then, even though I’ve paid for most of this stuff it has taken a lot of arm twisting on my part to get him to accept the money, and he continues to be really uncomfortable with me making any debt payments for him. I concede this all could be him putting on a show and I certainly agree it’s an issue of trust, but I think it’s unlikely because I did date him before he had any need for my money and I am pretty sure he’s not a con artist.

       Second, he definitely is not slacking in the jobs department and never has been. Even while employed he has sought out a ton of freelance work, and has taken contract jobs with like 2 hour commutes out of desperation. He was working part-time in retail until he was at this last contract job a few months and the retail jobs slowly stopped scheduling him because of his lack of availability. It took him months to even find retail work because he didn’t know many people in town when we moved, our city’s job market is even worse than most, and the city is also filled with underemployed grads who take all those crap moonlighting jobs. Already today he has already reached out to his temp agencies, some clients about taking on extra work and about collections, and has said he will look for a new retail job. Still, the problem always has been that this stuff just really never covered the amount of debt he has.

       His associate’s is in graphic design so it’s not so easy for him to just get an office job in a different field, and he isn’t just like painting in our basement and calling that a career lol. He is aware this wasn’t the most brilliant career choice to begin with, but at the time he went back to school he saw it as that or manual labor for life as he didn’t have the high school grades to go to “real” college. I majored in art in undergrad as well so I can’t really criticize.

       Also, I don’t know if it was clear that his debt wasn’t the result of crazily irresponsible spending habits or anything. He didn’t go to school until he was in his mid-20s so most of his commercial debt was accrued before that for basic stuff like medical expenses. When I say he has no family support, I mean like he moved out at 17 and hasn’t gotten a dollar from anything but work since.

       As for me, I definitely made a lot of errors along the way. I am mostly a cheapskate but then will spend when I feel flush, and the financial rollercoaster we have been on has resulted in me making a lot of purchases that I wouldn’t have if I knew another setback was right down the road (consider that a lesson learned). I also have not put my foot down as much as I should have. I really felt like his finances weren’t my business at first so I never sat down and looked over exactly what he owes to whom, or what income he had coming in. Obviously this was a huge mistake–it has become my business because it affects me when I am paying for stuff. But because that started happening so gradually, and I never–and still haven’t–completely taken over his debt payments, it didn’t occur to me until pretty recently that I need to really make it my business. Also, we haven’t had a strictly defined budget besides “we can’t afford anything at all” because we haven’t had the same income two months in a row until this November. So it wasn’t like he knew he could only spend $10 every day but was unable to control himself from spending $20; I just noticed him sometimes making discretionary purchases that I wouldn’t have made. I realize that we need to make an actual, hard-and-fast budget and that is on the calendar for this weekend, as well as him sitting down with me with all of his debt statements and coming up with a plan.

       To be clear, I DID NOT take out extra law school loans for him. I just stretched that and the parental support I got to cover both our needs. My parents were aware of his lack of income and that their money was partially supporting him, and obviously they are saints for being fine with that arrangement.

       We don’t want kids and are pretty, uh, progressive, so marriage really has never been a priority for us. For the two of us this is as serious as any relationship gets. And this is really the only problem in our relationship, although clearly a major one. That said, I wouldn’t want to marry him without getting this all resolved because I want to keep my finances legally separate for obvious reasons, although he has said that he would be totally comfortable with signing away all his rights in a prenup because he’s not interested in my money. You can take that for whatever it’s worth.

       I think you all are definitely right to point out that he isn’t good with money and we don’t have identical financial values. He was never totally profligate, though, and he has improved a lot. He grew up incredibly poor. I am inclined to cut him a little slack because he is light years ahead of his parents in terms of being financially responsible, although maybe I shouldn’t. I guess I also do feel like I owe this to him because I asked him to quit a stable job and move to a new city solely for my career, which has basically ruined his life. He has never complained about it once and mostly is critical of himself for not being able to contribute and not having made better choices years before he and I met.

       I realize I didn’t hit everything but I am exhausted after writing all that up. Thanks again for all of the advice, I really appreciate it and even just writing about this makes me feel like he and I will figure it out . . . it is just going to be a really long road and I think both of us just feel really beaten down right now because literally every time things are looking up something else goes horribly wrong.

       1. Hey OP anon,

          I don’t disagree with the other posters that it sounds like this is going to be a rough road. I had a very very good friend who was with a guy of I think similar ilk and it was tough for her because she had to come to terms with the fact that she was ALWAYS going to be the “responsible” one in the relationship. Always. You have to look at him as he is now and decide if this is a relationship that you want to make work.

          If it is (and as of now it sounds like it is), then there are probably a few concrete steps you could take. (1) You might consider speaking with a financial planner or a personal bankruptcy lawyer. Though personal bankruptcy isn’t the best, its also not the worst if things are really, really impossible. (2) You should put your student loans on a longer repayment plan. (3) He should defer his student loans. (4) You need to sit down and take a serious, cruel look at your current budget. How much are you spending on what and what can be cut. What is a “necessary” and what is “optional”. I know it sucks to be making as much as you do and feel broke, but that’s just reality for right now (but it probably won’t be reality forever).

          Finally — I think you need to see a therapist (and perhaps someone who specializes in relationship counseling) and he needs to maybe talk to someone in a “career coaching” type position.

          And also, just know that you aren’t alone. And you don’t sound entitled. Its hard right now but it will get better. (And your job will probably ALSO get better!)

          Good luck!

          1. I should clarify that I mean personal bankruptcy for him, since you’re not currently married and have no legal obligation to support him. :-)

          2. I think it is definitely the hardest thing to realize that I will always have to be the responsible one. It’s especially hard when a) I don’t feel like he’s unusually irresponsible, just unlucky in a lot of ways, and b) I am pretty disorganized and get stressed out easily so being the responsible one isn’t really a natural role for me. Really, in every other area of his and my relationship, the roles are the exact opposite–he’s generally a far more competent person than I.

             I addressed some of the bankruptcy thoughts below but it occurred to me that one of the reasons that I was initially opposed to bankruptcy was that the bulk of his debt is student loans, which as we all are painfully aware won’t go away if he files . . . sigh.

       2. Wow, OP, that is a lot to unload, and it makes me feel a little bit bad for my harsh response above. I understand that sometimes life gets away from you, and all the things you thought you knew turn out to be completely different. I do think that writing it out and getting some feedback will be helpful, and I wish you good luck in your conversations this weekend. One thing that was incredibly helpful during a career rough patch in my marriage, was instituting a “State of the Family”. Husband is very analytical, so putting numbers and facts into the document without “emotion” made it much more clear what steps were needed. Now, we both contribute to the document, which includes finances (good and bad) long and short-term goals, and current life satisfaction. I highly recommend writing things down, so that you can look back and see how far you’ve come!

       3. This isn’t exactly advice, more just commiseration — a close friend of mine is going through a relatively similar situation now where her partner quit his job and moved across the country to support a great career move for her, and has been very much struggling to find work ever since (also in a creative field). It’s been extremely hard for both of them because they didn’t realize how difficult it would be for him to re-establish his career when they relocated. I’m also in a similar situation to you right now as the “breadwinner” in my relationship because my husband is in the process of changing careers. It sucks to drop down to one income, and the stress of that leaks out in all kinds of unexpected places.

          I think you’re right that your next moves should be a financial plan of some kind, and therapy. If you’re in it for the long haul together, then it makes sense to stop planning individually and start planning as a unit. Get it all out in the open, make a plan that you can both stick with together. The therapy can be useful for getting out some of the frustration that you don’t want to direct at him but have to direct *somewhere*. I feel like I’m always shilling for therapy on here, but it has really helped me in so many more ways that I expected to have someone who is paid to listen to me and help me develop a rational game plan for problems that are otherwise just giant balls of stress.

       4. TCFKAG and I often post with the same comment. Personal Bankruptcy really isn’t as awful as it is made out to be. Yes there is a stigma. But, many people spend thousands of dollars and ruin many a relationship before they finally break down and decide to file – all wishing they did it years earlier. He should talk to an attorney now. If you post your state someone here might even be able to recommend someone. It sounds like he needs a fresh start and personal bankruptcy might just be it. That said, he should also get some financial counseling to figure out where to go from there. If you are not planning on getting married then you also have less to worry about with his bad credit from bankruptcy effected your ability to get joint credit. Best wishes.

          1. I’ll look into this, although I think I should get a better idea of the numbers I’m dealing with. But I think we fall into that category of people who sink too many resources into avoiding bankruptcy and it hurts them in the long term. At this point his credit is so bad it probably isn’t worth it to avoid anymore, and we have been operating under the assumption of “screw his credit, keep mine as good as possible” for awhile now so at least I can get a loan in the future. I do work at a law firm where people regularly send out requests for referrals for people they know, so I should be able to find a resource.

       5. I’m only adding this b/c I’m guessing there aren’t a lot of us here….I don’t think you should rule out him going back to school if he really wants to do graphic design. An associate’s degree is not enough! If he really wants to be in that field, he will be competing with BFAs (and even MFAs). And, if he goes back to school, his prior debt could be put in forbearance. But if he really regrets that career choice, maybe it doesn’t matter.

          1. We are definitely aware of this issue. He got the associate’s only because he had been working at a large company doing manual labor for a number of years, and because they liked him and knew about his artistic skills he was offered the opportunity to go into their in house design department if he got the degree at the same time. He stayed at that company in design for five years so he has plenty of experience but not the degree to back it up, which has made things more difficult because he’s overqualified for entry-level and underqualified for everything else. To him it seemed like he was saving money and time at the time, but in hindsight it didn’t work out so well. In addition, he does print and doesn’t have enough web experience to make the jump to a fulltime position doing web. I would love for him to finish his bachelor’s but we don’t think he’s eligible for federal aid because of his payment issues on his current student loans. Maybe I will request him to look into that in more detail.

             At this point he would much rather go into another field with a licensing requirement that would mean at least a year of working full time without income (I don’t want to say what because of the potential people who know us are reading–it is very specific) but that’s not financially feasible right now. I’d love for him to do this, though, because I think he’d be better suited for this field, he has a ton of contacts in this field, and it would likely be more lucrative than what he could reasonably expect to get in design at this point. At this point I almost think I should just bite the bullet and commit to a year of living with even crazier frugality, possibly have him declare bankruptcy, put my loans on the 30-year plan, and get him into this other field whatever it takes because what he’s doing just isn’t working. We had avoided this route because we’ve been pessimistic about a potentially risky career change that would necessitate us putting so many of our resources toward it, but things can’t get any worse than they already are.

             1. He should also look at Loan Rehabilitation if he has student loans. It’s a program of paying a certain amount each month fro 9-10-12 months (depending on the type of loan). If he makes the payments, the loans go out of default and, more importantly, the default goes off of his credit report. Less than ideal, and depending on the amount and interest he owes, it may be more than he can swing, but it is a viable solution for education debt.

             2. Consolidating will “rehab” defaulted federal loans- is that an option?

       6. OP, you are a prime candidate for Dave Ramsey’s “Financial Peace University.” It’s a 13-week (one evening a week) about how – and in what order – to pay your debt, prioritize your spending (hint: food, lights, water, shelter, car, minimal clothing, *then* debt), and communicate about money. If you can’t afford the ~$200 for the class, read his book “The Total Money Makeover.” I’ve always been pretty financially savvy, but there were a few key things that have made an incredible difference in my financial life.

          1. Second This.

             1. Just a quick thought on the OP’s subsequent comment – change the story, because it’s a work in progress. You haven’t ruined his life, both of you have made informed decisions, no one is dying tomorrow, so the rest is yet to be written. You and he have a bad stretch, and both of you are problem solving. This will pass. Assess, discuss, prepare and be alert so when those great opportunities come around, you’re ready. It’s the economy more than your job choice.

                Some faith communities have “sponsor couples” for marriage prep – which is a great concept for any couple who is struggling – befriending a mentor couple, or find a couple in your family/social group and have a regular time to talk about being a couple. I’m talking about actual face time, as sometimes all of those little nuances count.

          2. Glad you brought this up, Seattleite. My husband and I just took this class (for only $99 through a church). We’ve always felt pretty smug about the way we handle our finances, but this class helped put us on the same team and we’re now going in depth together in ways that we had been avoiding. And we’re not smug anymore.

             Also, to OP, it was really helpful for you to add more about your SO. He sounds like a really good guy, and it sounds like with the right help, you two can work through things and be on strong footing.

             Your situation is kind of a wakeup call for me. I quit my Biglaw job in 2009 to start my own business (being laid off helped with the nudge I needed), and my company is FAR from profitable even after 3 years. It stresses my husband out, but I haven’t been as sympathetic to the stress he’s feeling as I should be. His income is like a crutch to me. Things are tight but do-able for us, so I haven’t always focused on my business as much as I should. If he weren’t in the picture, I would definitely be working full time, most likely too exhausted at the end of the day to do anything towards making my business work. I owe it to him to carry my weight, and you’ve reminded me of this.

             One idea I had from reading your bigger-context post: try not standing in the way of his financial decisions. Don’t rescue him. It sounds like he doesn’t want to be rescued, and it likely hurts his pride. I know that’s a challenge because each of your decisions now affect the other. He sounds like he was always able to stand on his own two feet financially before he met you, and it sounds like you were, too. Seeing a therapist sounds like a great idea.

       7. To respond to the other issue in your original post (the job, not the guy), I think everyone who has ever been in BigLaw can commiserate with your feelings. It is a rough job, especially in the beginning. Even though I eventually left, it got much better as I learned who to work for–and who to avoid. It’s harder in the beginning, when you’re still learning the players and the game. So take heart! It can get better. In the meantime, focus on building good, transferable skills–even if you decide to stay where you are, knowing that you *could* make a change makes a big difference!

       8. I totally feel for you. This is not an easy situation and there are no easy answers. Everyone has given you really good advice and lots of food for thought. I just want to add that it sounds like there is a lot of history and maybe some guilt here and you need to just draw a line in the sand and deal with this situation as it is. Sometimes, it helps to think if you woke up & magically traded places with your best friend or maybe just a really with-it person you respect and this was her situation and not yours, what would she do or what would you tell her to do? It’s hard to be objective in your own life sometimes. It sounds like you feel responsible for his situation because he quit his job and moved to be with you. And I am not suggesting you shouldn’t take that into account, but at the same time, this was his decision and it has been made. You both need to deal with what is there now. Maybe that means him filing for bankruptcy, maybe it means he takes on a bunch of random work, but really there are always options out there. I know it’s easier to say it, but there are. And it shouldn’t be on you alone to shoulder them. Not to suggest this isn’t taking a toll on him, but it’s not as simple as ‘he’s using you for your money’ OR ‘he’s a victim of terrible circumstance’ — the truth is usually somewhere in between. And the fact that you didn’t look into his finances sooner should not be a weight on your conscience. If he’s been on his own since 17, he also needs to have learned to be responsible for himself. It only gets harder with age.

          Also, not to get all “the secret” on you (I swear I’ve never read it), but I really think sometimes when things are terrible and you have a bunch of bad stuff happening to you over and over, and it seems like you are just cursed, it’s important to just sort of say to yourself or to the universe, “this is happening, it is what it is, and I am just going to deal with it one thing at a time, and take it from there.” Or whatever works for you, but really make a conscious point about not letting this overwhelm you even though it is completely overwhelming, and decide right now that this is not how it will always be because you are not going to let it be like that, that you will just work on all of this as you can until it’s done and then you will be fine. I don’t know if that sounds hokey, but bad things have a way of leading to more bad things (e.g., stress at home –> problems at work –> now you’re out of a job, too) . Make a conscious effort not to let this defeat you because you will get through it all and it will get a lot better.

          Finally, just take a moment to be proud of yourself. You got through and graduated from law school despite being in a pretty stressful situation, you obviously did well enough to land a highly sought after job (even if you hate it, you know that lots of people would love to have it) in a terrible and highly competitive economy (if it’s hard for your BF to find a retail job in your city, I can’t imagine it was easy to find a legal job paying 6 figures) .. You should feel really good about that. It wasn’t easy. Give yourself some credit. A woman who can do all that will get past this problem.

       9. Wow that is a lot to deal with. Money pressure can be do awful. Everyone else has given you some excellent advice. I think that the first step you guys should take is to spend a day (or weekend) laying everything out financially. Pull out all the paperwork and have a straightforward completely honest discussion about all your bills and exactly how much debt you are each in. Lay it all out there. You should both pull your credit reports too in order to make sure you haven’t missed anything (and take this opportunity to dispute any inaccuracies). If you haven’t pulled them in over a year, they are free at annualcreditreport dot com, and if you got them more recently I think you can get them free at creditkarma dot com or quizzle dot com.

          Once it’s all out, categorize everything and look to see if there are any expenses you can cut. There might not be any, but it’s worth a fresh look. Then together you should lay out a budget. In my experience, I found it helpful to originally set out what I expected to spend in things and then track every single dollar for 1 month. That only takes a few minutes every night. At the end of that month, you’ll have a much more realistic idea of where exactly your money is going. I realized that I spend way more on groceries than I thought and that my electricity bill was cheaper than I expected. At this point, you might see new areas you can cut back on.

          You’ll need some sort of tracking system that you can both see. I only budget for myself, but in your situation, it might make sense to keep things in 2 or 3 categories. 1 for his expenses that you don’t have any obligations on (student loans, commercial debt, etc) 1 for yours and maybe a third for expenses you share (rent, food, etc). It sounds like it will be important for each of you to be completely honest with each other about where all your money is going.

          Obviously this won’t help with the fact that he is currently bringing in no money.. This should just help you both build good habits and have a better sense of where any money should be going when it does come in. I’m sorry the job market is so rough where you are. It’s good that he is out there seriously looking though. Aside from looking for retail and through temp agencies, has he considered other things like being a virtual assistant? Or getting in Task Rabbit or something to find freelance work? That’s probably not the traditional place to look, but it might be helpful.

          Finally, have you guys considered living apart for awhile so he could go live in a city where he could find regular work? You said you don’t like your job so maybe you guys live apart while you both get on your feet financially and then you look for work in the city where he is employed.

          I’ll leave it to others to recommend the bankruptcy stuff, but since you aren’t legally obligated to pay his loans and debt, I don’t think you should pay it. If his loans are already in default (which you’ll find out in the long honest talk), his credit is already falling. You shouldn’t risk sacrificing your own for something you aren’t legally obligated to do. It does sound like he has some emotional issues with money, which are definitely worth discussing.

          Good luck getting this handled. It can definitely be tough to dig out, but it is possible over time. It’s also possible that by doing this together in an open and honest way that your relationship will become even stronger.

       10. Wow, my heart goes out to the OP. You are going through one of the toughest situations ever. It’s even harder when emotions are all tangled up with money issues and both people are feeling guilty/depressed/angry/helpless. I sincerely hope things look up soon! Definitely go to therapy. Also, if you haven’t already, make a budget and look over it with your SO. Make a plan. List out your top goals and list out steps you are going to take together each week to make them happen. I think you should both reach out to whatever friends you have for emotional support. This isn’t easy! Be sure to schedule time for yourself just to relax with people you love so you can find some peaceful moments and a sense of connection and an identity outside of this mess.

   16. I’ve been in a similar situation, and we are only now (a year after the “OMG I can’t do this anymore!” conversation) fully getting our finances under control. It takes a lot of time and hard work, but if you are both equally dedicated to making things work it can happen.

       My BF was similar to yours in only wanting to do one thing (in his case, teaching) and nothing else was good enough. But with this economy, teaching never worked out so he started part-time coaching a debate team. Fun and fulfilling for him…but it only lasted for 3/4 of each school year and paid barely more than minimum wage. I got a job in a new city after graduation and we moved in together. I ended up paying my loans, rent, utilities, groceries, gas, and cell phones. His coaching salary only covered his student loan and car loan payments, if he didn’t spend any money the rest of the month to save for payments during school breaks. And like you, I got so tired of always struggling and never having enough and feeling like I was the only one who cared. So when the school didn’t offer him the coaching job for this season, we had one of the most awkward/awful conversations ever–either he gets a job that can pay his half of our household expenses, or he moves out because I’m not willing to do this forever.

       Before that conversation (it lasted hours and I cried a lot, but it needed to be done) he hadn’t realized just how tight our budget was–I tracked everything in Mint and an Excel document, but had never showed them to him. He didn’t realize how stressed the situation made me, or how I almost got panic attacks thinking about this being our life for the next 50+ years. The thought of money taking every good thing in our relationship away was what kicked his butt into gear. He has a job now, and while it isn’t teaching or a long-term career thing, getting us on financially solid ground was more important than the career he thought he wanted.

       But if your guy already knows how you feel, and still doesn’t want to change….I’d be looking for an exit plan. Your finances and peace of mind are more important than his lack of a budget.

   17. I am in the opposite position of you. I have an astronomical amount of student debt and am a poorly paid government lawyer. My husband is in a creative field, never went to college and makes more than double what I do. He is paying my student loans as well as our mortgage. I always feel so guilty because I am not pulling my weight and my debt is like a second mortgage payment. I would give anything to be the breadwinner. Or at least be able to pay my student loans on my own. Love and money are complicated things but when you truly love someone you support them and stand by them. I think therapy is a wise idea.

       1. Can you put your loans in IBR? After ten years of government service they’ll be forgiven.

          1. IBR takes your spouse’s income into account, so it may not be that helpful if he is making a lot of money.

   18. My spouse and I were in a similar situation out of law school and we both had horrid times of unemployment. And neither made close to 6 figures, in NYC. No way around it, they were difficult, depressing times. 10 years later we have it all- great higher paid jobs, switched cities, good relationship. It just took sucking it up and getting through those days and plugging away at taking steps to better our situation- taking the crap jobs we got, then inching up slightly. THen quitting everything and moving west with nothing- which worked out beautifully though we left just before the recession. KNow that it can get better, and it’s okay to support him if you are in life together. And it’s okay to admit how awful it all is- sugarcoating doesn’t help. That time period, I always had headachesa and exhaustion due to the stress. I’ll never forget the misery. Just break things into manageable steps to look for better employment etc. and plod away at those, it will pay off years later. (not days).

       1. just to reiterate again- as a counter to all the comments saying he’s using you- i don’t agree necessarily. my spouse got fired from a horrid legal job and i wondered if he was a dud… he tought kaplan courses and other odd jobs.. sometimes didn’t or couldn’t do anything- unemployment is depressing and can make it hard to do much all day even getting the mail- if you haven’t been through it you likely can’t imagine. we soldiered through those hard days. we weren’t married yet and now we are happily married and successful. sometimes commitment and love TAKE risking things for each other and carrying the load during others’ hard times. now i am pregnant, work really hard, and he does nearly everything around the house and feeds me all my meals. he will do more for the baby than i will (aside from physical stuff) and be a more hands-on dad. if you are in it for a lifetime, things even out and you both have ups and downs. i’m a little surprised no other commenters have allowed for this possibility- if people in younger relationships don’t understand compromise and that things aren’t equal every single day, they’ll have a hard time sustaining long-term relationships.

          1. just another memory- after his 9 months of having no job, the following year i lost my job, where he supported me.. things go/come around. one thing i learned: never to put ourselves in that situation again. we now make sure we have ample savings etc.

          2. “if people in younger relationships don’t understand compromise and that things aren’t equal every single day, they’ll have a hard time sustaining long-term relationships.”

             I’ve been with my husband 15 years, married 12. I totally agree with you and am living that reality every day, things are not financially equal between us in the least. BUT. There’s a difference between someone who has had bad luck and is trying to work his way through it with little success, and someone who is waiting for the world to hand him something and creates difficulties and stress and expects someone else to mommy him and solve his problems as a result. I don’t think the OP’s SO is the latter – at least not from what she said in her second post. But there’s a difference between chicken s**t and chicken salad and women need to understand it. There’s no need to stay with a guy, even if there’s mad love involved, if he does not and cannot understand the need to get with the program and contribute to the forward progress of the relationship and life in general.

8. The posts a couple weeks ago on how people perceive you based on how much makeup you wear really made me think about my makeup routine (or lack thereof). I’ve come to realize that I need to try to look a little more polished on a daily basis. My typical makeup routine is just a little sheer lipstick or tinted lip balm. Sometimes some blush and eye shadow. I don’t use mascara or eyeliner at all, as I’m not very good at applying them and tend to rub my eyes a lot.

   I would like to ask for the hive’s advice on foundation. I’m in my late 30’s and basically have never been successful with foundation. I have an olive complexion with yellow undertones (think Middle Eastern/Indian) and pronounced dark circles under my eyes. Mild pitting from acne as a teenager, and pretty uneven skintone. Oily but sensitive skin. I think a good foundation could really help me look better – in cutting down on shine and evening out my skintone. Problem is I’ve never found one.

   I’ve had my makeup professionally done a couple times (weddings, etc.) and thought I looked great, but everytime I’ve gone to makeup counters (e.g. Bobbi Brown, Clinique) to try foundtaion I’ve thought it looked terribly unnatural and mask-like. Bare Escentuals mineral powder purchased at Sephora (based on the salesperson’s recommendation) was way too yellow. Laura Mercier tinted moisturizer didn’t match well either. Basically, I’ve bought a series of differenct kinds of foundation over the years but never end up liking them.

   What I’d like is foundation that: 1) looks as natural as possible, 2) will match my complexion really well, 3) will even out my skintone and 4) cut down on on shine. Should I wear liquid or powder foundation? Are the mineral foundations more natural looking? Which brand has the most shades, or a better chance on being a good color match? I would appreciate any suggestions or advice! Sorry for the long post, but I really feel like a 15-year older trying to figure out makeup basics!

   1. Hi there, I recently went to Sephora and had a very informative makeup lesson there. I purchased NARS powder foundation and I’m wearing it today. It’s very natural looking and matches my complexion well (I have medium brown skin, but they have a range of colors). NARS gets rave reviews from lots of makeup gurus, so I think it was a good buy. Prior to this, I have always worn MAC. The guy at Sephora told me that MAC has good colors but they use a high percentage of talc, which is why sometimes my face looked somewhat whitish in pictures. So I would not recommend MAC, at least not for foundation. Hope that helps.

      1. I just went back and re-read your post. I am Indian so maybe we have the same coloring. I have oily skin as well, and I prefer powder to liquid foundation. I also think that if you don’t have the exact color right, liquid foundation can end up looking like a mask. Powder looks much more natural, but it won’t have the same coverage as liquid. To maximize coverage with powder foundation, I recommend using a sponge (not a big brush).

         I used to have pretty uneven skin tone as well (not acne, but just darker parts of my face), and what really helped me is prescription Retin-A. Just get a small percent dosage. It made a huge difference in evening out my complexion.

   2. Have you tried seeking out salespeople that have skin similar to your own? I’m a Causasian brunette and most department store salespeople have a really good idea of what will work on me, probably because I’m similar to a substantial part of the population. I wonder if the salespeople aren’t doing a good job with you because you have unusual skin.

   3. I have fair skin, but it sounds similar to yours other than the shade. I’ve also had terrible luck being color-matched at fancy makeup counters. Maybe it’s the store lighting or something, but they always give me something way too pink or orange. I’ve tried tons of foundations, and in my experience the expensive ones are not necessarily better. Here are the ones I like:

      1. Revlon Colorstay for oily/combination skin. Not sure how great the shade range is, but this gives a natural-looking medium coverage and stays put almost all day.

      2. Maybelline Dream Matte Mousse. This is better for me in summer than in winter because it emphasizes dry areas, but I love the texture and it wears well.

      3. Loreal True Match. Excellent shade range, light/medium coverage.

      I suggest buying a couple shades and trying them at home. You just can’t tell until you put it on in natural light. Many drugstores and I know Target will take back opened makeup that doesn’t work.

      The only mineral powder foundation I like is Neutrogena mineral sheers compact powder foundation. I wear that on the weekends. I dislike loose mineral powder foundation on my skin, it looks cakey and dated to me.

      Good luck! You just have to try lots of stuff until you find one that works.

   4. I’ve got an “olive” veering towards yellow in the winter complexion. I love the Bare Minerals, but blend one of the more yellow colors (golden medium) with one of the tan colors (medium tan, maybe) depending on the time of year.

      The people at Sephora weren’t very helpful when I went to find a color– the actual Bare Minerals store was much more useful, in case you have one of those near you. Also, I liked their newer matte product much more — it didn’t have the minerally shine I’d get with the original.

   5. I have olive/yellow tones, but I’m more medium, not super dark. Also have oily skin. I have used mac studio fix for years, which is a powder foundation, and as others are saying, I prefer powder. It’s more forgiving in terms of shade match, and helps mattify. Plus, to me it feels lighter on the skin than liquid.

   6. I’m also olive with yellow-ish undertones, about medium tan, and the lack of matching foundation is what sent me to indie mineral makeup companies (Bare Minerals is okay but has filler ingredients and limited color selection). You’ll have to do a bit of sampling to find what what works, but once you find something you like, you will wonder why you never tried minerals before.
      You might try Meow, Lumiere, Lucy, Silk Naturals, even Avon. Good luck!

   7. Bobbi Brown is good for yellow undertone skin. She has a foundation for oily skin that comes in a squared bottle that is really great.

   8. I have to recommend NARS Balanced foundation – or whatever their foundation formulated for oily skin is now called. I have oily skin also and don’t like the looks and feel of anything heavy. The NARS foundation is so light you can’t feel it but it evens my complexion and stays on all day. I haven’t found anything that works as well. It is expensive, I paid for $50, but well, well worth it. As they say you get what you pay for and I have found that to be especially true with makeup.

   9. Thanks for all the comments so far! So good to know I’m not the only one who’s had trouble getting a good foundation color match! Sounds like I have to just keep trying until I find something that works for me – or even mix a couple differernt shades. I should clarify that my skintone is medium with olive-yellow undertones. Bare Minerals “golden yellow” is the shade that I have, and it’s too yellow for me. I am hopeless at figuring out which colors to try based on just looking at the foundation, so I think I’d really do beter going somewhere where I can be matched. Please do keep the comments coming, this is really helpful!

      1. You could try tinted moisturiser which doesn’t have very strong colour pigments, so you don’t look too pasted on. You might also want to consider just using concealer on certain areas, maybe foundation on selective areas and then a light tinted powder on the rest.

      2. I have a similar complexion (dark circles and all) – I don’t like makeup but started wearing it for work to look more put together. I tried some of the department store brands like Clinique but everything looks too ashy on my warm skin. I also used Bare Minerals (medium tan) and thought it worked fine but didn’t give me the coverage I wanted and for someone who doesn’t wear makeup regularly, it felt like too much product. My next experiment was the new Maybelline Fit Me line and I think I have finally found a foundation that works for indian skin. I use number 310 and it’s great. I just walked into a CVS and picked out the color that seemed closest to my skin tone and it worked out well… if you have medium tone skin, the 300s range should work for you. It’s not too thick and won’t cover everything but it smoothens everything out and takes a minute to apply. I dust some loose staying powder on top to make it last longer. I love eyeliner and sometimes use a blush – no lipstick because I can’t get it to stay. By the way, if you want more ideas about which colors work for middle eastern/indian skin, check out indianmakeupdiva dot com – it’s fabulous!

   10. I can’t really help on the foundation colour question but if you prefer the low-makeup look, maybe you should go with a higher-coverage powder instead of foundation. Powder is definitely what you need if you have oily skin you want to matte, and I find my MAC Select Sheer powder makes my skintone look more even without giving you that my-skin-is-all-the-same-colour foundation face. There are less sheer powders, too, that will cover even more. If you do decide to wear foundation, blush is a must if you don’t want the mask look!

       1. Agree on the powder – tinted moisturiser followed by concealer, then translucent loose powder applied with a big brush, some blush, a little mascara and eye pencil/shadow can make a real difference but still look natural.

   11. I suggest going to a small cosmetics boutique that carries a number of brands. In DC we have a few, one great one is Blue Mercury (they have stores in other cities – Philly and I think I saw one in NYC). You could call up and explain your situation and make an appointment with someone who works there who is the “foundation expert” – at these types of places, there are people who specialize in different areas, i.e. makeup artist, skin care, etc. This way, you are served by a person who can sell you multiple lines, unlike if you go a department store, where you have to shop by brand. I get that Sephora has the multi-brand option, but I think the people who work there have a little knowledge about a lot of things, where as in a smaller boutique, you don’t have that problem.

       good luck!

   12. Thanks for all the wonderful suggestions! I think I may just try some powder first, to see how that works (perhaps with tinted moisturizer).

9. I’ve been there! Our relationship didn’t work out, but our vastly differing attitudes towards money were only one aspect of that. Hopefully my advise isn’t too pessimistic. First, if your attitudes towards money are different, that can be a stumbling block in a relationship. So that may be a conversation to have. If you can work out compromises, awesome. Our issues were more that he spent uncontrollably on “wants” while I took out student loans to cover our needs. Hopefully your situation is different and better.

   That being said, here is what I wish I had done differently. I wish I had paid our rent, food, etc (the bills that really have to be paid and that I’d be paying at some level anyway — you have to live somewhere and you have to eat), but not his debt payments. Also, my advice is never to get into any kind of joint debt until you are married. That was a total disaster.

   1. Well, that was supposed to be in response to Anon #22. But you probably guessed that.

10. Does anyone have any recs for a nice camera bag to hold a DSLR that don’t look like camera bags? I’m not keen on carrying anything that screams camera bag since I feel like it also screams, please steal me or my contents. I just got a new DSLR camera as a gift and I want to be able to take it out but have it protected, so I was hoping to find something that looks sort of like a purse? TYIA for any suggestions!

    1. Check out Emera

    2. I love my kelly moore bag!

    3. Check out Kelly Moore bags or Epiphanie bags. So cute. Also, you can always buy a camera/lens insert and just use one of your larger purses or totes.

    4. I have one of those canvas-like Kate Spade cross-body messenger bags. I got it at the outlet for a good deal and I feel it protects my camera pretty well. It’s also cute, easy to carry, and easy to get the camera in and out.

    5. Buy some Domke camera wraps for your camera and additional lenses and make any bag into a camera bag. I’ve never found a camera bag that was big enough for my needs, comfortable to carry, and looked right. So I found a messenger bag that was all of those things and I use Domke wraps to protect my gear. I swear by them.

    6. Check out the PacSafe bags (at ebags, REI, etc.). They are pretty cheap and look like plain handbags but are roomy and slashproof (just made it through huge cities in Asia with one as my camera bag, and I couldn’t be happier). You could use this one http://www.pacsafe.com/www/index.php?_room=3&_action=detail&id=24 but I got the size up and carried other stuff with it (http://www.pacsafe.com/www/index.php?_room=3&_action=detail&id=25). Still looks new, too.

    7. Epiphanie and Ona bags!

11. I’ve fallen in love withe the MZ Wallace Hayley handbag (link below to avoid moderation). It’ appears to be the perfect size, not to big not too small. The shoulder straps are long enough to be worn over a bulky coat. And I love that both the shoulder straps and the crossbody straps are removable – so you can use either or both at the same time. However, it’s way out of my budget. Can anyone suggest a cheap knockoff, or something similar, at about $150 instead of $350?

    1. This is it:

       http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/m-z-wallace-hayley-nylon-handbag/3249487?origin=shoppingbag

    2. The MZ Wallace website has a sale section with many bags in your price range.

12. Travel advice needed!

    My boyfriend was generously surprised me with a week-long vacation in Kauai in February as my Christmas gift! I’ve been to Mauai and the big island before, but never Kauai. We’ll be spending 4 days at the Sheraton in Poipu and then 3 days at the St. Regis in Princeville. Other than that, we haven’t planned anything else. Any tips, ideas, things to do or restaurants to go to while we’re there?

    1. The “Hawaii Revealed” guidebook series is really good. I can’t remember if the Kauai one is called “Kauai Revealed” or something else, but the books have a blue cover and are written by someone who actually lives on the island.

       Kauai is beautiful and with a week on the island you should be able to see a little of everything (it is quite small).

       The hike along the Napali coast was definitely a highlight of our trip there. And take a boat ride along the Napali coast too. It is the most spectacular part of the island IMO. Also, drive up the mountain/volcano to the state parks up there and check out some of those hikes that overlook Napali. Stunning.

       1. Fourthed. We went with not Blue Hawaiian (sorry, can’t recall), but they have landing rights to the Jurassic Park waterfall. AMAZING.

          Also, BEST Coconut Shrimp EVER at the Shrimp Hut (entrance to the Waiamea Canyon).

    2. The island of Kauai is pretty small so you can get around to wherever you want to when you’re there. Your bf picked good places to stay, as they are on opposite sides of the island. My recommendations: ATV (you go out in the sugar cane fields), helicopter ride (see the island from above) – goes out of the airport so do it when you’re in Poipu, it’s a shorter drive than from Princeville, ziplining. Try the local food, especially the pig – seek out the dive restaurants, there’s some good ones. Farmer’s market – offhand I know there’s one in Poipu and one in Lihue. Have fun!

       1. Second the helicopter ride. Best money we ever spent

          1. Thirded.

    3. You must go to Puka Dog! Google it – so delicious.

       1. yes. go to puka dog.

          1. Yes yes yes…puka dog rocks

    4. We went to Kauai on our honeymoon. My best piece of advice is be careful of boat tours. The company we went with had cancelled every tour that week due to the ocean being to choppy, but they sent out our boat. Huge mistake. At least a 3rd of the boat was sick and it lasted forever. Not exactly romantic. Neither of us were sick, but we felt off the rest of the day. On a positive note, the coastline was beautiful and we got to see lots of whales.

       1. This. Loved Kauai, but the memory that sticks out the most is throwing up on a boat tour to the Napali Coast. The waters were insanely choppy. I’ve never been sea-sick before or since, but the Napali Coast waters did me in. Make sure that the waters are calm if you’re going to go on a boat tour there – its a long ride.

    5. Have you seen The Descendants? Gorgeous shots of Kauai.

13. Hi Corporettes, I really need some help here. I just started a new job in-house at a financial firm this week and it’s a lot more responsibility than my prior gig. I definitely feel like I have a lot to prove, since they took a chance on me even though I’m still junior in my career.

    I’ve been plowing through docs all week trying to wrap my head around everything. Today my boss comes to me with my first official issue to address/answer, expecting an answer on the spot. Of course it was about an area I am not too strong on and I am really not good with being put on the spot. I mumbled something about whether he has docs concerning it that he can show me, but he automatically says to my neighbor, who is also his colleague, “oh no, she doesnt know anything!” I tried to recover and say we will need to document the issue in a log (which is true, albeit a generic response). I reallllly hope he was jk and ribbing me as the new gal, but I feel really paranoid that he thinks I’m not fully capable and bluffed on my experience (which I didn’t, it’s just a complex field and so many daily issues can pop up which I haven’t yet faced even if I’m generally familiar with them).

    Do you guys have any tips on how to recover from a similar situation like this or tips on how to deal with on-the-spot questions which you are unsure about? This isn’t quite a legal issue, so it would’ve been weird if I said “Let me research it and get back to you.” Plus, I think he was testing me a bit. TIA!

    1. I am in house and am senior to you (7 years in house counseling after 10+ litigating in BigLaw), but when I switched to in house after litigating for so long, I had similar experiences. I think you handled it well. I still get questions to which I do not know the answer. I usually ask for more information (either orally or documents) and then say I need to do some research. I may get a little more deference than you do because I am older/have been practicing longer, so my clients may assume that if I don’t know the answer off the top of my head, that is normal. Maybe you can recreate that deference for yourself by saying something along the lines of, “Last time I looked at this, xxxx, but I’d like to look at it again before I give you an answer.”

       1. This. I’ve been in-house for 15 years (and now I feel old!), and with the variety of different kinds of issues that can come up every day, I often ask for more information or double check the research before giving a response. Good luck in your new job!

14. Yikes. Well, I don’t think you’re coming off as an entitled jerk, that’s the good news. The bad news is – seriously? You’ve been letting this guy mooch off of you for how long? He mooched off of you while you were a law student?! And he’s the one without an ability to stick to a budget? Hello, red flags. You mention that there’s no time to implement money-saving strategies, but if he’s only working off and on, why can’t he do the research and make the effort? Isn’t he taking any responsibility at all? It sounds like he is financially incapable, in addition to being incapable of facing the truth about his on-going situation and the position he’s put you in. I’d be more inclined to quit supporting him, focus only on paying off your own debts, and then moving into a field that you actually enjoy. Don’t let him drag you down. Maybe I’m being to harsh here, but it he could have a serious and lasting negative impact on your financial record, especially if you were to ever take on any of his debt. I wouldn’t be willing to sacrifice my own independence and financial well-being (and health – stress is a killer!) like you seem to have so readily done.

    1. This was my gut reaction as well. Maybe I’m old-fashioned, but if you’re not married, his money problems are not your problems. Dealing with law-school debt is enough of a burden for any human being.

    2. I agree with the harsher assessment of the situation. It’s entirely possible to deeply love someone who is financially irresponsible. And while bad things happen to good people, you have to start to wonder if some of the bad luck he’s been having is related to his own behaviors and irresponsibility. Let me ask this. If something were to happen that were to take you out of his life permanently, don’t you think he would go to any length to survive? I mean, he wouldn’t starve to death. He’d figure it out. So what is stopping him from taking care of himself right now? You. I’ve been in relationships in the past in which I was the stronger one, the one who was financially responsible (even with debt). When I moved past the relationship, guess what? The guy either took care of himself or found someone else to do it. I got tired of playing Mommy and Therapist. And now, I’m married to someone amazing who I know I can count on for anything. And guess what? I make considerably more money than he does, but it pretty much never crosses my mind (except when I need to illustrate something like this). He is reliable, dedicated to his career, supportive of my career, etc. But in order to free myself up to find that kind of guy – someone I actually deserved – I had to make some tough decisions about guys (and finally a specific guy) that was great in many respects but was never going to be a grownup.

       If you think this guy’s the one, then you really need to consider whether you need to take a break to get each of your lives together before starting again on a more balanced footing. That might mean him taking 2 menial jobs and finding a room to rent from someone for super cheap, and him eating noodles and PBJ for dinner every night. That’s okay. (Heck, I’ve sold blood platelets to buy groceries back in the day!) And you, take time for yourself, start managing YOUR bills in a way that minimizes your stress, and just take some time to think about what you want and deserve…. Maybe he needs to learn what it takes to survive and that he can survive for him to man up and be a worthwhile partner. And maybe he’ll value you, your relationship and your combined resources more if he lives without them for a while…

       1. I’m wondering if you guys read the OP’s second, clarifying email? I’m asking sincerely, not snarkily — I was feeling rather harshly towards him too, based on her initial post, but her second one put it in perspective and I have higher hopes for her and him now. Particularly given that he had a steady job, left only for her sake, and has never once made her feel guilty– I don’t think that should be discounted.

15. Would you consider talking to some sort of financial planner if you haven’t already? I know that there are some who seem to specialize in consolidating/helping you pay the lowest possible amount on student loans. It sounds like if you could pay a little less for awhile while he (hopefully) finds a real job, you would feel much less stressed out.

    It is nice for him and all that he is in a creative field, but he needs to start being financially responsible and making sure that he can contribute long-term. It isn’t fair that he decided to be some sort of starving artist while you foot the bill, and it sounds like his field has few viable options. I think that he should find a real, paying day-job, even if he has to go back to school to qualify for one, and continue his creative pursuits on the side.

    (My fiance is in a creative field and I’m a law student, so your situation really struck a cord with me.)

    1. This was supposed to be in reply to anon.

       I get the “posting too quickly” message, hit back, and hit “submit,” and it no longer replies for some reason.

16. Ok, so I posted a while back (anonymously) about being in a funk and wanting/needing to see a therapist. I’m about 3 months into therapy and I can honestly say that I feel so much better and have a good part of my anxiety in check (without meds). One of the things that my therapist encouraged was exercise. I’ve never really worked out before and I’m not in terrible shape, but the prospect was a little overwhelming because I have very little energy. Working out will change that, but changing my routine is hard for me. BUT I also know I need to do this for myself.

    I may have low blood sugar (getting tested) and I’m a few pounds heavier than I would like to be – so I know that I can’t continue to put this off. So I’d like to announce that I joined the local Y, got a health evaluation, and signed up for a few sessions with a personal trainer to learn how to use weights (in addition to doing cardio). I wanted to announce it here because I feel it will give me some accountability and because most of the ladies here are so supportive. I know I will be able to come here in the coming weeks and vent and hopefully share my success.

    So instead of getting any work done this afternoon ;-) I will be searching for a heart rate monitor and some basic workout clothes. Wish me luck!

    1. Best of luck! I’ve been trying to get in a better exercise routine and hearing your story might just be the thing to get me motivated to head to the gym on my way home tonight for the first time in a while :) Let us know how it goes!

    2. Good luck!! I always have to drag myself to workouts, but I never regret them afterwards and how much better they make me feel. Check out Champion C9 workout clothes at Target – I love their dri-fit shirts, pants, and shorts and they are so much cheaper than the alternatives.

    3. That’s awesome! Congratulations and good luck to you.

       In terms of basic (and affordable workout clothes), check out Target & Old Navy. I love their sports bras (Target) and workout pants – (Old Navy) – particularly their Compression line.

    4. Congratulations on taking such an important step! I’ve been there, done that with anxiety in the past year and agree that regular exercise can make a world of difference in keeping it under control.

       1. congrats! So heart rate monitor? I just want to put my recommendation in for Garmin anything – their products are great, because they all work together seamlessly and upload very well. I work at a running store, so I get a lot of ?’s about these things, and Garmin is by far the best.

    5. Good for you! I’ve signed up for a yoga beginners series since it’s been so long since I’ve practiced. Since it’s “scheduled,” I know I’ll feel more obligated to attend.

    6. Good luck! If your cardio is running, maybe consider getting new running shoes. That’s how I forced myself into the couch 2 5k thing, by buying expensive running shoes that adjusting my running so my ankle didn’t turn in (there’s some technical term, I’m sure the actual legit runners can tell you). I figured if I spent all this money, I had to use them. (mind you, I sort of stopped after thanksgiving when work got so crazy… but I’ll pick it back up as soon as the new year’s rush on the gym dies down)

    7. Good luck! I can totally attest to the vast, noticeable improvement that exercise has on my mood and energy level. The weight loss/toning is just a bonus. I’ll be here, rooting for you!

    8. Good luck! Regular exercise – even small activities – definitely improves my mood. Just give it a few weeks!

       1. Agreed! I was on anti-depressants for about a year. I decided to go off of them cold-turkey and I’ve been doing fine.

          However, I’ve noticed that if I go off my exercise routine for 1-2 weeks, I start to feel anxious again. Much better than popping a pill everyday!

    9. Good for you! I’ve made it a goal to get back to the gym and plan to start small. I’m a little concerned because the gym will be absolutely crazy with new years resolutions people (although i guess I’m one too), but I’m making the commitment to go on Monday. Post the cute gym clothes you find!

    10. Congratulations on your new resolve! I have always been into cardio but added weights this year and I love it. It’s a great idea to use a trainer to learn about proper form (I work out a lot with a friend who is a certified trainer and it’s made a huge difference). Don’t be freaked out if your weight goes up a bit after you’ve worked out with weights for a few months. As you build up muscle, you may see a little weight gain but just pay attention to how your clothes feel.

        And I second or third that Target is a great place for basic workout clothes although I prefer Danskin for bottoms.

    11. You might try TJMaxx / Marshalls for workout clothes. They have really good deals on some nice (although not super fancy stuff). I’m wearing my new running tights right now (and, er not running but I went for a really long walk) and they’re amazing. I think they are Avia?

    12. Thanks for the support! I’m going to venture out soon and see what kinds of good deals on workout clothes I can dig up – I will be certain to check out all the recommended locations.

        Both my doctor and my new trainer suggested cutting out prepared foods, added sugars and a lot of carbs. It sounded like a death sentence at the time. I have a pretty busy schedule, but I wanted to see what the hive thought. Any thoughts on quick and easy recipes? I like salads, so I want to look into doing interesting chopped salads too. I’m supposed to eat a lot more often now, so small meals would also be alright.

        Also, have any of you tried protein shakes and/or protein bars to replace meals and help with weight loss? If so, what kinds?

        1. taking up dance- salsa in particular- really helped me get out of an anxiety funk a few yrs ago!

        2. For food ideas, I’d recommend cutting up veggies for salad on Sunday so it’s easy to throw together a salad with bagged romaine. On the other hand, my favorite salad is romaine, chicken, strawberries, feta, with balsamic dressing. If I’m planning to eat a lot of salad during the week, I’ll cut up chicken breasts into small pieces and saute the pieces (with just salt and pepper) in a little olive oil until they’re brown, then I throw that in the fridge to eat on salad all week. Another good choice is soup, which is easy to make and heat up. I’m making soup tomorrow with chicken, carrots, mushrooms, and barley for this week.

           I was just at Target (in Metairie – not sure where you are in LA) and they had a lot of nice workout clothes on clearance. I’m looking for a zip jacket to wear to the gym when it’s cold. Not like today!

        3. I am also on a clean food/no prepared food/only food that remembers where it came from/fresh food — whatever you want to call it — regimen. No dairy. No grains. I end up eating the same few things day in and day out. And I am fine with that. Here are some:

           breakfast:

           *banana with a couple spoonfuls of almond butter (I like the TJs one with flaxseed).
           * scrambled eggs (2 whites, 1 yolk) — either alone or with spinach and/or tomatoes and/or black olives
           * hard core Blendtec blender + one grapefruit + one banana + seven ice cubes

           lunch:

           * large tupperware (size of a salad serving bowl) + handfuls of salad greens/spinach + cut up selection of cucumbers, bell peppers, hard boiled eggs, canned tuna, black olives, dates, hearts of palm, tomatoes + baby food jar with half olive oil and half balsamic (or raspberry or other) vinegar or lemon juice

           snack:

           * steamed spinach
           * baked round slices of eggplant
           * hard boiled eggs (I throw away the yolk b/c my cholesterol is on the edge)

           dinner:

           * fish broiled and served with salad or steamed spinach (could also do chicken — I don’t eat meat)
           * take those baked eggplants rounds, spray Pam in a shallow baking dish, place eggplant in dish, pour basic marinara sauce from jar (I use Kirkland/Costco), add spinach if desired, add small amount of crumbled feta or grated parmesan if desired, bake at 425 for 30 minutes

           I do have a terrible sweet tooth and eat plain, dark chocolate. When it all gets too much, I also make chocolate meringue cookies (no butter, no flour).

           1. Another one:

              * defrost and squeeze all water out of 3 10 oz boxes of frozen spinach. Combine in a big bowl with 1-2 eggs, chopped sundried tomatoes, chopped artichoke hearts. Spray shallow baking dish with Pam and put spinach mixture in. Bake at 400 for about 45 minutes or until cooked.

        4. Salads are really easy! You just start with bagged salad. Once a week (when I’m in serious salad mode) I chop up peppers, carrots, celery etc. and toss them in small tupperware. (Not cucumbers, because they get slimy – I just chop those on the spot.) I bake some chicken too. Then whatever I want a salad I buy a bag at the grocery store and mix in whatever I want!

           If I want to up my protein, I just add chickpeas or navy beans into the salad.

           Make sure you get music you love (or audiobooks or whatever). Music I love really helps push me at the gym.

           1. Lifehacker did this awesome thing about making salad in mason jars- they could apparently be made several days in advance without getting slimy. I’m kind of fascinated by it: http://lifehacker.com/5830602/enjoy-fresh-salads-all-week-with-a-vacuum-sealer-and-mason-jars

        5. Home made granola – takes me an hour on Sunday morning (mostly unsupervised baking time) and provides my household with breakfast for the rest of the week. Google David Lebovitz for a recipe which replaces oil & sweeteners with fruit puree.

        6. I’ve been eating no grains or sugars for a few months now, even though I used to be totally carb crazy. It doesn’t have to be a death sentence!

           One thing I can recommend is to check out the recipes on thestonesoup.com. She eats grains and potatoes, but is on a “slow carb” diet, so many of her recipes don’t use either. They all also can be made in 15 minutes with a small number of ingredients. My favourite salads from her site are her cherry tomato and almond salad and her roast beet and lentil salad (that one requires some weekend prep, though).

           Breakfast is the hardest. My go-to is to sautee a pile of greens and fry or poach an egg or two to go on top. I start it and let it cook while I’m throwing my lunch and snacks together in the morning and it’s done by the time I’m done.

           Snacks can also be hard. I usually eat fruit of some sort with cheese or nuts or yogurt.

        7. I used the Atkins protein shakes and bars. Honestly, they weren’t OMG yummy, but they were pretty good, and perfect for those times when I just needed fuel. I’ve also used Herbalife’s shakes and bars, if you happen to know a distributor. At the moment, I use whatever chocolate protein shake I can get at Costco.

           If you’re going to use shakes, get a ‘blender ball shaker’ for both home and work. They’re $6.50 from Amazon, and work amazingly well. Shakes are much more palatable when there aren’t any little chunks of powder in there. FWIW, I cut out carbs and sugar beginning Jan 1, have lost 8 lbs. so far, and the side effects from the highs/lows are diminishing quickly. Good luck to you!

        8. I love doing chicken or fish with a pan sauce. They can get fatty, but just monitor what you put in and you’ll be fine. You can just put it all over a bed of spinach – easy and delicious. Look at cooking light for some recipe ideas if you’re not a big improv cook.

    13. You are doing the right thing for you – good luck!

17. Hee. Boston.com just posted a list of time wasters on the web. So of course I read it and now have some new sites to get addicted to:
    http://www.boston.com/news/odd/gallery/time_wasters_12_08_11/?p1=Upbox_links

    1. Ahh, where was that two hours ago…at least I’ll have it for next week.

    2. Bunkster….sometimes you’re the worst.

       (I’m just kidding of course.)

       1. Oh, I am. There’s no doubt.

18. I have a question for all the transactional lawyers out there… I’m interested in corporate law and am trying to figure out what kind of job I should get for my 1L summer. I was a corporate paralegal before law school and really enjoyed it, but really only got to see what happened to deals once they were in the closing stage. What are the most important skills that I should be trying to develop this summer as a 1L to broaden my experience? Should I be looking to get a job in a big bank, in-house at a business or just looking to get experience doing some skill (ex: writing a lot)? I’m in the lucky position that I don’t need to be paid so I can cast a wide net. I feel like everything in my first semester has been more geared toward litigation so I feel like there are big gaps in my understanding about what steps I should be taking! TIA!

    1. I’ve said before on this forum that the summer after 1L, people should just do something they enjoy and not worry too much about doing something law-related. You have the rest of your life to do that – plus you say that you don’t *need* to be paid. I normally recommend that people simply travel or focus on a hobby or outside interest after 1L. But I don’t know what the norm is in your market, and if where you are, 1Ls regularly do *serious* work after their 1L year.

       If you know you are interested in transactional work, don’t worry about not learning about it in law school. You won’t – it will all be learnt on the job.

       If you have been a corporate paralegal before, you already know how law firms function and how to work in an office environment. You are unlikely to learn anything in your 1L summer that will teach you much about deals prior to the closing stage, so don’t worry about that. If you have the opportunity, you might find it interesting to see if you can find something in-house for the summer so that you can see “the other side” a bit.

       But my real advice? Travel.

       1. I’m going to have to disagree. True, you have your whole life to work, but with the job market the way it is, gaining legal experience is so important so employers won’t feel like they have to start from scratch with you. I would recommend looking for work with a small company, small firm, or solo practitioner in the area you’re interested in. You’ll be much more likely to actually get substantive work in a smaller setting, and will learn so much more.

          1. B – are you in the US or Canada? If you’re in the US, I concur Anon above – you need to make yourself comeptitive by gaining legal skills during your 1L summer. A couple of weeks ago a Canadian law school student wrote in with a similar question and the consensus was that in Canada its ok to travel your 1L summer.

             1. concur *with Anon

                *competitive

                I need spell check today.

          2. Agreed. Do something law-related. Get a writing sample. If you don’t need to make money and have an interest in doing so, working for a pro bono or other public-interest organization would be a great option.

       2. I agree with Nonny…I worked in finance for a few years before law school and now am a corporate lawyer in nyc biglaw. 1L summer I worked in the legal dept of a large university. It was incredibly interesting and I got a fantastic writing sample out of it. Plus I got to do a lot of different kinds of projects — some litigation centric and others more corporate like. This was definitely a positive for interviews…I think interviewers get really bored and it’s fun for them to engage with students about summer experiences that are a little different from what they do all day.

    2. I think that your goal after for your 1L summer should just be to have a good writing sample, if you don’t have one already, since you will be applying for jobs right after for 2L. I think being an R.A. is a great experience – you have lots of flexible time to enjoy (which you won’t once you graduate) and if you can find a professor in an area you’re interested in, it’s both relevant experience and a great reference.

       1. I was lucky enough to get a 1L corporate summer associate job, but looking back, if I hadn’t had that, I think an in-house position would have been a great experience. A lot of companies don’t have any sort of formal program, but if you can find an in, I think a lot of general counsels would love to have someone help out for a few months on random research projects and other items related to deals they’re working on, especially if they don’t have to pay very much. This could be especially useful if the company you work for is a client of a firm you’re hoping will hire you as a 2L.

    3. I worked for the in house legal department of a large company during my 1L summer. I found it was a great learning experience and I got to see what being in-house was like. I think any legal job would be fine for the summer, but since a lot of transactional lawyers go on house eventually, why not check it out now?

19. I read an article written by Ben Barres, a female-male transgendered scientist, discussing the differences in their experience as a scientist of each gender. This was in response to some other university science profs making a statement that women aren’t doing well in science because they are innately less capable/intelligent than men. Barres argued it was systemic bias that caused the gap.

    This launched a discussion between my husband and I about the difference between men and women: is it more body or more mind? I put it at probably 60-70% body and 30-40% mind, and husband put it at about 50%-50%. My logic was more about “instincts” vs. intelligence when it comes to differences in the mind. I think raw intellectual horsepower (as my husband terms it, he’s an engineer) is equal between the two, but it gets muddy when it comes to things like s3x drive. Is that hormonal and thus related to the body, or “hard-wired” and thus related to the mind? Is the stereotypical female ability to “nurture” a function of the mind or the body? How does it all change once you get into civilized society, where things like money and power can trump physical attributes related to attraction?

    Anyways, we had a really interesting discussion about issues in “the system” that hold women back vs. actual biological or mental issues that contribute to the discrepancies between men and women in society. Any thoughts?

    1. This is an interesting conversation. I think there are biological differences in men and women that affect learning. You see that the opposite is true now with younger students- young women are outperforming young men in almost all areas. I think this is partially a result of the decrease in recess/physical activity and the increase of quiet, desk learning. Reported rates of ADHD have also increased dramatically, and I don’t think that’s because more people necessarily have ADHD than before. I’ve taught in classrooms that were mostly male and others that were mostly female, and the boys needed a lot more activity than the girls to refrain from acting out in class. They also tended to be more enthusiastic about activities involving a lot of noise and movement.

       I think there are mental issues as well with respect to learning styles. I’ve seen a few studies (can’t remember them now) that women as a whole tend to be more concrete learners while men can do better with abstract learning situations. Ideally you’d have a class taps into all types of intelligence, but most of the college professors doing high-level science aren’t trained in teaching methods and are likely to teach in the way they learn and understand best. If you have a lot of people in a field who learn the same way, they’ll probably teach the same way and alienate others who might otherwise be talented but for the fact that they can’t learn that way. This can disproportionally affect one gender over another.

    2. There’s an interesting pair of books out by Dr. Louann Brizendine called The Female Brain and The Male Brain. I’ve only read the first, but it had some interesting insights regarding the biology that happens in the brain (much of which we still don’t understand) but how there are very real differences in how, on average, female and male brains work.

       I’m also of the opinion that, on average, there are certain skills that one gender is typically better at than the other. That being said, I don’t think those generalization ever carry to an individual. Just because women might generally be better at communication doesn’t mean that Mary is always going to be better than Joe at communication. And just because men might tend to be better at abstract spatial reasoning, doesn’t mean that Jill can’t be a better engineer than Mike.

       But, because the generalities exist (with some biological basis), the “system” tends to impose them more rigidly (but unconsciously) than it should.

       I say this as the only (and oldest) girl, with 3 younger brothers and a father who are all engineers. I was never told that I couldn’t do math or science, and was often encouraged in those subjects because my dad was also interested – and being the oldest, I was the first one to have the schooling to understand a lot of what he was interested in.

       1. Agreed.

          To say that the average female brain is exactly the same as a male brain (physically and physiologically) is false. To say that therefore women and men are inherently inclined or disinclined to certain areas is… likely. To say that an individual woman or man is therefore going to be good at one thing and bad at another is most certainly false.

          “The system” certainly applies pressure to women (and men, I would imagine) to follow certain paths. I elected to not take calculus in high school because “I was never going to use it” dispite always being top of my class (and doing better than most of the men in my future pre-engineering courses in college). I was literally laughed out of the room when I submitted the paperwork to declared my math focus in college. I ended up earning an advanced degree in epidemiology and biostatistics. And what used to be a very male-dominated filed is now nearly entirely female. So clearly “we” are capable. Although, I suspect that we may approach problems and solutions differently.

          I really don’t see what s*x drive has to do with it, though. Maybe you (OP) meant s*x hormones?

          1. OP here: I agree that there’s definitely a difference between the two brains (I gave it 30%-40%), and the comment on s3x was one area that I think can get a little muddy on whether or not it’s attributed to the mind, body, or both (the whole “men are visual creatures” and “women like to cuddle” thing). That point was brought up in our original discussion along with things like hunger, shelter, etc., since in civilized society, most of the lower needs are met (as related to Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs). So if things like physical strength are less necessary to survival, in theory, there’s no reason that women should fall behind men, since it’s a much more mental landscape now.

             I also wondered about being inclined to do something that is still science/math related, with the same prestige/mental rigor, but in a different area (maybe life sciences vs. chemical science, or structural engineering vs. software engineering). As it stands now, it seems that there are fewer women in most STEM areas, even though the capabilities may be there. Then it’s a question of desire, but I think there’s a lot of “nurture” in what we desire (like you being laughed out of the room, you had the confidence to keep going!).

             1. I have had it observed that even in the sciences there is a further gender differentiation. As in, women tend to go into the biological fields and men into the more math based abstract fields. My experience is with chemistry, so bio-chem, organic chem and analytical chem tended to have higher percentages of women, where as men where more dominant in the physical chem and inorganic.

    3. In terms of the working environment, remember who created it. I’ve mentioned it before but I’ll do so again — “The Male Factor: The Unwritten Rules, Misperceptions, and Secret Beliefs of Men in the Workplace” by Shaunti Feldhahn touched on these kinds of topics (i.e., how men and women think differently) and was very interesting.

    4. I’m currently reading Delusions of Gender by Cordelia Fine, which debunks the male/female brain “science” — in particular, the Brizendine “Female Brain” book. I highly recommend it — it’s sassy and fun, and it presents a refreshingly different argument than the usual “your gender completely determines how you think” narrative.

       [The book’s major premise is that women and men are NOT hardwired differently in their brains; rather, our hypercomplex brains constantly change and adapt based on societal gendered expectations and interpersonal interactions.]

    5. Thanks for the book recommendations, I’ll have to check them out. I’m sure it will spark more interesting discussions with my husband :)

       1. If you’re looking for some more lively reading on this topic, I highly recommend “the trouble with testosterone” by Robert Sapolsky. I use a chapter from that book in my introductory gender class, and I think he really does a nice job in complicating some of the biological fact that we think we know about men vs. women (for example, that men’s higher testosterone levels are the cause of their more aggressive behavior).

20. I know there have been discussions in the past of professional laser hair removal, but I’m wondering if anyone has any experience with at-home laser or pulsed light products (e.g., Tria, i-Light, Silk’n Flash & Go). I have very fair skin and dark (almost black) hair, which I believe is well suited to laser hair removal. This is something I’ve wanted to do for quite a while, but I have held off because of financial issues and unwillingness to disrobe in front of strangers (I want to address the bikini area).

    If it’s possible to get good results at home, that is definitely my preference – I’m just skeptical that these products actually work.

    TIA for your comments!

    1. no clue but if it helps, I’m having it done at a place and, though it was awkward for a moment with the person on my first visit, it’s so clearly just routine for the person (much like the gyno), that maybe it’s worth it to get through the discomfort?

       if it’s a no-go, try checking out the laser products on a website like amazon where there are user reviews. maybe you’ll get somewhere?

       would love to know the answer and your final choice though! if you think of it, email me? munchkin1616 at juno dot com

    2. I tried the Silk’n and ended up returning it. I found it frustrating to use, but I tend to pretty impatient with at-home maintenance, e.g., mani/pedis, exfoliating, etc. I did just purchase a Groupon for professional laser hair removal so I figure I’ll leave it to the pros.
       About ten years ago, I did the bikini area. I don’t think it worked – they say that happens if you don’t get enough treatments. But I was more prudish at the time and kept my underwear on. If I made the investment now, I would certainly get the whole area done.

21. My husband and I are relocating out to the Bay Area in about 8 weeks. We will be interviewing realtors to help us find rental properties, but I wanted to ask some questions/input.

    1) Our target area is somewhere between Berkley and Benicia (not on the SF proper side). Any neighborhoods/areas to absolutely avoid? Any to look into? Our budget is anywhere between $1400 and $2000/month for a rental.

    2) Are Vallejo and Richmond as bad as people say? What areas/pockets of these places are nicer/safe/etc.?

    3) Any recommendations for rental realtors/property management companies in that area?

    Thank you Bay Area corporettes… I know nothing about this area since we are relocating from the East Coast.

    1. I loved North Berkeley when I was out there for law school. I was in my early 30’s at the time, FWIW. Parts of Oakland are worth looking at too.

       1. Oakland may be a little far south for my husband’s commute. How much time would it add to drive from one of the more northern parts of Oakland to Berkley during the morning rush hour? Husband will be working in the Vacaville area.

          1. To drive from North Oakland to Berkeley? They share a border. ;) Vacaville from Oakland, or Berkeley, would be a pretty big drag, honestly. Will you be in downtown SF? In Richmond, the “good neighborhood” is Pt. Richmond. I’ve heard a lot of people say good things about Benicia.

             1. Thanks for the comment. I really know nothing about the whole area, so this is all helpful.

                I will be moving without work, so we are trying to live somewhere that will allow me to look for work in the widest variety of areas. We are worried that if we live in Vacaville, I will be limited to working mainly in SF. But, if we live a little farther south, I would have more flexibility to look for work in SF/Oakland/Alameda/even further south if necessary. Also, I would (in the ideal world) like to have the option of public transiting to work at least some of the time, and I think living further north wouldn’t really allow that. I’d have to drive to get to transit, which would make any commute of mine horribly long.

                It seems if we might be able to find a place in Pt. Richmond, that could be a good option. I’m also following a great apartment complex near Benicia, so it’s good to hear that might be a nice place too.

             2. Yeah, just double checked the time – Berkeley to Vacaville is 45 minutes *with no traffic*. Even with reverse-commute traffic, I’d think you’re looking at more like an hour drive. I know that’s normal for some people, but it would kill me.

             3. To ahh510. Yeah, it is very interesting how people perceive commute times. Hubs’ previous commute was about 50 minutes because he had to back back country roads- there was no direct way. My commute is currently on public transit and is similarly an hour and it seems it takes an hour to get anywhere in my current city. So… in the ideal world, I would wish for less than an hour commute, but that has never been my reality so I guess I perceive it as normal! :P I think that’s another reason we are hoping to live further south- even if his commute were an hour, perhaps with us living in Berkley/Richmond/etc., mine could end up being more like 35-40 minutes and allow at least one of us to have a slightly quicker transit time. UGH COMMUTING. :)

          2. My aunt and uncle live in Piedmont – it’s a really nice area with good schools. I grew up in Antioch while I was little – it was lovely at the time – but I haven’t been back recently so that might have changed. No idea on the other more northern areas.

          3. Also, if you’ll be downtown SF, you may want to focus your search around a transit hub that works for you — a BART station, a ferry terminal, etc.

             1. I wish I knew specifically where we would be. :( I’ve been searching for a job since August and am pretty resigned to needing to move out there first before any jobs will take me seriously.

          4. I live in SF and have never really considered Vacaville part of the “bay area”‘, the commute you’re considering for H is pretty awful from any part of the east bay close to SF as there is almost never the “no traffic” conditions google will tell you about. You are looking at close to 2 hours w your plan for him. You might want to consider Sacramento/roseville, Davis, etc., as that is all much closer to Vacaville. Ifyou want more of what this area is known for, maybe even napa. What line of work are you in? Unless just tech, you’ll probably have options in sac too.

             1. I’m worried that living in the areas you specify will limit my job search pretty much to just the Sacramento area. I am in consulting right now and would like a consulting job with a large firm/company ideally, but I will consider business analytics positions with smaller companies/boutique firms. Almost all the job postings I’ve seen (especially with smaller companies) are not really in the Davis/Sac area… most tend to be in SF proper, Oakland (and surrounding areas), and a few inland in the Walnut Creek area. I am paranoid to live between Sac and Vac because that would close off a lot of work options for me locale wise.

                Husband has some colleagues out that way who commute from Berkley to Vac and claim it’s about an hour’s commute/maybe a little more, so I hope it wouldn’t be 2 hours… but I guess you never know. But I guess to be honest, I’d rather have a job and have my husband have a kind of bad commute than give him a great commute but be out of work for a long time or not really find much of what I am looking for. Maybe that sounds bad, but I’m quitting my job and moving for him- perhaps he’ll need to compromise and put up with a less tha stellar drive to work so that I can find work as well. Kind of a mediocre situation… :(

             2. That makes sense, heart, good luck to you, that’s a hard commute you both may be looking at. The good news is that once you’re out here, perhaps your H could find something else that makes things easier. Lots of companies/jobs around. More companies out here are good with working from home a day or two a week too because of commutes so that’s also something to keep in mind.

    2. Richmond is pretty bad, but Point Richmond is a safe area. It’s very suburban though, so you’d have to drive everywhere. I second the North Berkeley recommendation. I also lived there while in law school.

       In my experience, you can find nicer rentals using Craigslist than a property management company.

       1. I was also going to chime in and recommend Point Richmond.

          I would not go further north than that if you want to be flexible about working anywhere in the Bay Area. Of course, people do commute to SF from Vallejo or even Vacaville, but I wouldn’t want to do it for long.

          The El Cerrito hills are also northward and beautiful.

       2. I lived in North Berkeley for law school too; I think it’s a lovely area, along with Kensington (basically N. Berkeley hills) and parts of the Albany and El Cerrito hills. Tilden Park and Wildcat Canyon are great for hiking. The neighborhood within walking distance of the North Berkeley BART station (on the flats) is very nice, but I don’t know how much it has available in the way of rentals. For Kensington, Albany or El Cerrito, you’ll likely want to be close to either the El Cerrito BART station or the El Cerrito Del Norte BART station.

    3. You know what might work well? Walnut Creek or Pleasant Hill. Puts you on the 680 corridor, which improves the trip to Vacaville; both have BART stations, so SF would be easy; and, the 680 corridor also puts you in good commuting distance to Dublin/Pleasanton, San Ramon, maybe even Milipitas.

       1. I agree with ahh510 on Walnut Creek, Pleasant Hill, or even Concord. They all have BART stations, which could get you to Oakland or SF fairly easily and to get to Vacaville you would avoid I-80 through Berkeley which pretty much always has horrible traffic both directions. There should be lots of rental options in those areas within your price range too.

       2. I have to disagree on the 680 improving the commute to Vacaville. I drive to Sacramento fairly often during commute hours, and there is a really big backup where 680 hits 80 at Cordelia. Usually much worse on the 680 side, and I’ve driven both ways.

    4. I own in Richmond, and have lived all over, and am happy to answer specific questions about neighborhoods by email. Richmond will be your cheapest option, and it’s got great neighborhoods and not so great ones, but its very suburbanish if that matters to you. My email is yes.i.can.0911 at gmail dot com.

    5. I live in the Pinole/Hercules corridor. Not the worst place ever to live–fairly middle class and fairly safe. I will say this though. The traffic SUCKS to SF. You will need to take public transportation, which will require BART if you are commuting into SF. The same really goes anywhere in the East Bay that you live. That said, live around the BART lines. The best BART line in my opinion (and safest) is generally the Pittsburg/Baypoint line that runs out through Rockridge/24/680 corridor. You can get a 45 min commute in from the Walnut Creek area (google it) on BART. Don’t live all the way out in N. Concord/Baypoint/Pittsburg–the commute is horrible. Likewise, the Richmond BART line isn’t extremely safe past El Cerrito. I took BART to El Cerrito Del Norte for years… not the greatest, though it was ok. The traffic on 80 should be avoided at all costs between SF and the Carquinez Bridge (Vallejo). DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT plan to live in Vacaville and commute to SF or anywhere between Vacaville and Hercules to commute to SF: the commute is unbearable. It’s long, tedious, and you’ll want to move after a short period of time.

       Just my two cents for what they’re worth.

       1. Thank you for this. I was suspecting this, but it’s good to hear from somebody who knows.

       2. Interesting, I commuted from Hercules to SF for years and never had an issue with the commute. However, I used the “casual carpool” option, where passengers are picked up for free by drivers and you get to go through the carpool lane on the Bay Bridge. Door to door, it was usually about 35-40 minutes. If you’re not in the carpool lane, I agree that the commute from Hercules to SF is terrible.

          If your husband is working in Vacaville and you’re trying to maximize job opps. , I fear that you will be limited in where you live. I’d recommend Hercules, Point Richmond, El Cerrito, and North Berkeley. Oakland is probably going to be way too far for your husband.

          Best of luck to you.

          1. Thanks, this is perfect. From our own research as well as comments here, it sounds like we will focus on these areas and pretty much only these areas. Our preliminary searches have turned up a few options, so I think we’ll be able to find a rental eventually when we move out in 8 weeks.

             We have a similar carpool system out here in my current city and a lot of people use it- good to know there is a similar system out west that works really well!

             1. Benicia wouldn’t be a terrible bet, but it is a pretty small town. There is a lovely Main Street, some good restaurants, and it’s close to good shopping in the surrounding towns, but I imagine it might be hard(er) to meet people (especially if you’re both commuting out of Benicia), and you have to cross a bridge to get to the nearest BART station. That said, it is close to Vallejo, which has the ferry to SF (if I recall correctly, it takes ~ 45 mins to an hour), and Vacaville — while not close — would be a lot more doable than from the other side of the Carquinez and Benicia Bridges (which is where a number of the other towns people have mentioned are located), not to mention your husband wouldn’t have to pay tolls every day.

       3. I agree that you should live neat BART. El Cerrito is a good option. Having grown up in urban areas where there is serious crime, I think BART is extremely safe no matter where you are. I have taken BART to and from Richmond at all hours. There are cameras all over the place, and that’s known, so you are not going to get mugged on the train. If anything, you should be araid of BART police, but that’s another story . . .

22. I posted about this on an older thread but I want to be sure someone saw it..

    I am curious about learning more about b-school and the opportunities afterward, specifically consulting. What schools are worth going to? Top 10? Top 25? Is there a point where it isn’t worth it? I am specifically looking to use B-school as a path to make a career change, not advance in my current role.

    Does anyone work as a consultant? What things do you like/dislike?

    1. 1) T5 consulting firms only hire from T5 schools, and so on and so forth.
       2) If your ambitions are very regional, go to a good regional school instead (preferably a state school). Cheaper, much easier.
       3) The cost of the T10 schools is not worth it unless you are planning to make a very healthy salary post-graduation – e.g. meaning you are focusing on the professional services industry, or executive positions at big companies.
       4) If you’re just looking to gain an edge on business skills and not aiming for McKinsey/Goldman/esque types of firms – consider a part-time MBA at a smaller institution.

       1. #1 is not true. T5 consulting firms will hire from T10 schools.

          1. maybe the magic number isn’t 5 but 10 or 12. my point is that consulting firms and b-schools are tiered in much the same way, and the system feeds off of itself via the intersection of networking, alumni contacts and recruiting. if you’re aiming for a top firm, you need to go to a top school.
             (probably very similar to law firms/schools.)

    2. Consulting loves:
       – a lot of responsibility early on
       – wide breadth of sectors, functions and regions
       – people are generally highly competent with a healthy culture that promotes collaboration. A lot of my close friends are from my consulting days (we suffered together and helped each other through difficult times)

       Un loves:
       – very steep learning curve, not just in terms of content (function, sector, region), but also working with new sets of people every so often
       – travelling is great for exposure, but can take a toll on other areas of life
       – what doesn’t k1ll you makes you stronger, but do you need to be so strong?

       But it’s probably one of those experiences that if you have early in your career, is generally one that won’t hurt your career prospects, even if you only stay for a year. Most employers probably understand how tough the lifestyle is and you probably get significant credit for the experience. However, how does this fit in with your longer term career plan (not many consultants, intend to stay as consultants in the very long term).

       1. Sorry steep learning curve is a double edge sword, so both a love and an unlove

          1. Hm, I don’t know if that sounds like something I would like…. I am working in a boring job in a location that I don’t like and I am trying find something else that would be a good fit for me. I am currently in a marketing role but I think that is my default since I am good at it but am not really excited about it. I really need a change.

             Any other types of firms/companies that commonly recruit MBA’s?

             1. Nearly every business school has a list of who recruits from their program, a history of internship placements, and average salary information.

    3. I went to MIT Sloan for my MBA 9 years ago and loved every minute of it. Prior to bschool, I had worked as a chemical engineer at a big company and was doing very well there, but could tell it was too slow for me. Coming out of bschool, I was recruited into strategy consulting. That was a perfect fit for me: challenging, fast-paced and exhausting. Each client/project was a fresh and new, forcing me to learn everything fast– industry dynamics, corporate structure, product lines, job functions, org charts, etc. I’ve never made so many PowerPoint slides in my life. Eventually, after 5 long years, I burned out, wanted to get off the road and have a family. What was really draining about the job were 1-2 paranoid partners. For them, no analysis or deliverable was ever good enough. Even though I was the one working hand-in-hand with the client 12 hours per day for weeks on end, the partner who swooped in once a month knew better and forced us to rework the deck until the wee hours of the morning. That said, consulting was a great experience and launched me directly into the current phase of my career, which is as an executive overseeing a nice big P&L. Had I not gone to bschool and done consulting afterwards, I wouldn’t be this far along.

       1. Jc thanks for your response! Would you be willing to talk to me a little more about your experience ? I’d like to know more about what type of projects a consultant works on. I you reach me at Jones (dot) blair1 @ ymail (dot) com

          Thanks again!

    4. I am a Tuck alum. (Highly recommend, if you’re into outdoorsy work-hard, play hard, two years of living somewhere rural.) I highly recommend you read “How to Get into the Top Business Schools” by Richard Montauk (that title is close). It’s a great guide. You may also want to go to Businessweek’s b-school forums or Accepted.com to ask more specifically about certain schools, certain firms, etc.

       I would say that certain schools (including some “top” schools) are more regional, so do your homework on where you want to end up geographically once you’re done. In b-school, they taught us that searches revolve around industry-function-and geography…think about that as you think where to apply next year.
       Good luck!

23. Thoughts on work showers for second babies?

    A coworker/friend has repeatedly offered to plan one, but I’m not sure what typical protocol is these days. It’d be a “sprinkle” rather than full shower (brief cake and well-wishes, no gifts, no games). Oddly enough, in my 10+ years of employment, I’ve never had a coworker have a second baby. My company has had many first babies this year, all with a shower. I’ve tried subtly feeling out my direct coworkers, but haven’t gotten anything. It’s hard to bring up without sounding like I’m asking for one.

    Also, is it odd/unacceptable for someone outside of my department and project teams to organize the shower? My coworker/friend works in a completely unrelated department of the same company and is unknown to the people who would likely attend the shower. (We are friends from when we worked together for another company a few years ago).

    1. If there are no gifts, don’t call it a shower. Call it “cake and well-wishes for Jane” or something like that. Also, do you want this event to happen? You don’t have to say yes just b/c your friend is offering to plan it.

       If it’s a simple 20 minute gathering to eat cake and drink cider and wish you well, I can’t imagine that people would be bothered by it. Maybe not typical, but perfectly fine otherwise.

       1. Oh, excellent points about the label.

          And I should have mentioned that I would appreciate such an event, assuming it wasn’t awkward. I am fortunate to like my coworkers and would enjoy a little fete before leaving for my 12 weeks.

    2. Can you call it a ‘meet the baby’ thing, and bring baby in for a visit midway through your maternity leave?

    3. We just had a shower for a coworker’s second baby yesterday! Since she knew she was having a second girl and already had most of the requisite baby paraphanalia, we had a “Dipes & Wipes” theme and gave her a bunch diapers, wipes, baby poweder, etc. …not cute but very practical!

       1. paraphernalia*

       2. I think this is a good way to do it. At my work, when there are second and third and even fourth babies, we do necessities showers, and that seems to go over very well.

    4. I repeatedly told my co-workers I didn’t want anything for my 2nd (we had 2 girls in less than 2 years and needed nothing). They threw me a little lunch party with just the necessities-diapers, wipes, etc. It was LOVELY. A nice way to recognize the baby without all the stuff.

    5. Here’s my belated response.

       For my son, who is just 1 1/2 years younger than my daughter, my colleagues wanted to throw me a work shower. I felt weird about it because I had also read that you aren’t supposed to shower the second baby. I had two really nice showers with my daughter and I didn’t like the idea of asking the same people to shell out again. And we did already have all the necessities, other than boy clothes.

       However, as it happened at the time, most of my female colleagues were 5 – 10 years older than me and done having babies. They really wanted to buy cute little baby things and celebrate. So I gratefully relented. It was much smaller in scale than the showers for my daughter, was held at work in the early evening, and I only received clothing. Boy clothing.

       But the boy clothing was so cute, and so much nicer than anything I would have bought. These women went all out. And now I have photos of showers for each child to show them, and believe it or not, they are interested.

       1. We had a favorite-children’s-book shower for a co-worker which went well. Chewable (board) books work well for new babies AND big sibs :)

    6. Thanks, all!

       I was anticipating some scathing “no!” responses, so apparently my worries are unfounded. I appreciate your input.

       Thanks for the gift ideas, if there’s interest. I like the idea of the book shower. The ones from my first child are pretty well eaten. (The necessity shower is an excellent idea, but we typically cloth diaper and can reuse from my first child. And this baby is the same gender, so we’re more than set with clothing). I’d also been thinking of take-out, delivered, or frozen meal service gift cards. That is something we very much need!

24. In what city are you guys planning to work? The Bay Area traffic can be horrible, and I’d highly recommend living within a 30 minute commute to your work if at all possible. I’m from an area near Richmond/Vallejo and it’s not as bad as people say, although some parts of Richmond are extremely dangerous. On the other hand, Point Richmond and Hercules are very nice (but very suburban, not much to do but not far from Berkeley/Oakland/SF). For the prices you list, I think large pockets of Berkeley may be out of your price range unless you’re ok with a 1 bedroom (I haven’t lived in the Bay for 5 years though, so someone correct me if I’m wrong).

    If you’re looking for a fun city with things to do (and not SF), I highly recommend parts of Oakland like the Rockridge area or Lake Merritt. A lot of the other areas in the Bay Area are pretty sleepy suburbs, and I frankly couldn’t imagine living there. I have a friend who lives in Oakley (near Benicia) and absolutely hates it because there is nothing at all to do there.

    1. Thanks for the long response. Husband will be working in the Vacaville area. I will be moving without work, so we are trying to position ourselves in an area that will allow for me to consider work in the widest variety of areas. We figure looking between North Berkley and Benicia will make my husband commute doable/reasonable while allowing me to look for work anywhere in SF proper/Oakland/Alameda/etc. We are afraid living in Vacaville will limit my job hunting options to SF itself, due to long commute times.

       I have heard that Pt. Richmond/Hercules are pretty okay places from various sources, so I will keep those in mind for sure.

       We hadn’t necessarily considered areas of Oakland because we assumed that would be too far a drive to Vacaville- do you think this is the case? Or is it really not that much farther to go from Berkley to Vacaville vs. Oakland to Vacaville?

       1. Specifically, between Oakland and Berkeley, there’s the MacArthur Maze, which I navigate every morning, and it would make a big difference in your husband’s commute if you lived north of there and he didn’t have to cross it. The particular curve where you transition from 24 or 580 to 80 toward Vacaville is always backed up.

          In your earlier posting I recommended you also consider the El Cerrito hills. If you don’t have kids, no worries about schools, and the views are gorgeous from up there.

25. Just bought the Olivia Harris Jackie Satchel on sale at Neiman Marcus. I am trying to replace my LV Speedy as Corporette has made me self-conscious about carrying my logo bags. Any info on the quality of Olivia Harris?

    1. I don’t know anything about the brand, but I just wanted to say what a lovely bag I think it is! I hope it’s a keeper!

    2. I bought an Olivia Harris off Gilt a few years ago, and one of the fasteners popped off within the first 5 wearings. I’ve probably worn it 30-40 times, and the leather is getting this weird plasticky see-through effect (not a patina). I hope your experience is better.

26. I have an unusual wardrobe situation that I need help with. DH & I are going on a cruise at the end of February. There is a cocktail reception that we have to attend. Some of his coworkers will be present, as will potential donors to an organization he’s involved with. (Geesh, this is sounding somewhat shady as I type it out, but I swear everything’s legit and this isn’t a junket of any kind!)

    Can I get away with a cocktail dress that isn’t black? I know that’s the foolproof option but I seriously loathe wearing all black. And on a cruise, I’d like to think there’s some leeway. Specifically, could I wear this dress — in any of those colors except black? Or would I look too much like a little girl in her Easter dress?

    http://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/product.do?cid=69887&vid=1&pid=450173&scid=450173032

    1. It’s just going to the main BR page so can’t see the color but you can definitely do a non-black cocktail dress, esp on a cruise. And there is no rule that says cocktail dresses have to be black… that’s the safe option sure, but I think jewel tones are more appropriate for cocktail. Otherwise it’s going to look like everyone is at a funeral. Think purple, navy, emerald, metallics, even a nice tangerine or yellow. I personally don’t like pastel Easter colors for evening events but if you add some shine or bling, you might event pull that off.

    2. I think that dress is lovely and perfectly appropriate for a cruise cocktail reception. Since it is often overly air conditioned on ships, you’ll want a cover up of some sort, like a dressy shawl. A darker color, perhaps to coordinate with your shoes, would tone down the bright color a bit if you felt you needed to.

       As the page was loading and I couldn’t see the photo but could read the color as “geranium pink,” I thought it sounded too sweet, but once I could see, thought it really is a very pretty color. One of those pinks that makes many complexions just glow!

       Have fun on your cruise. Are you going to the Caribbean?

    3. Link isn’t working for me (just goes to the BR homepage), but I don’t think there’s any reason why you can’t wear color. Just make sure the shape and cut of the dress is formal enough for a cocktail event and you should be fine. I’d go for a statement-making jewel tone — it’ll still look formal but might feel more festive than black.

    4. I can’t seem to make the link work (it just goes to Banana’s homepage), but in response to the question: I think you can certainly get away with a non-black cocktail dress for the situation you’re describing. I’ve cruised several times, and it was a great time to break out some of my favorite jewel-toned dresses.

       1. Oh, okay, now that I can see the dress (thanks to Laura #2)… it looks fine to me!

    5. I think the cruise location is really the telling thing, as is the restaurant. If it’s a more formal event/location, stick with black and maybe some fun jewelry to acknowledge that you’re on a cruise. If it’s a tropical trip and you’re meeting at a buffet type setting or the like, something cute and fun with more formal jewelry should be fine!

    6. I think it’s a lovely dress, but I’m not sure it’s enough to be a cocktail dress. I don’t think your dress needs to be all black, but those colors do scream spring and easter. A deeper color would be lovely, particularly for that time of the year. (Think forest green, navy, or burgundy) I think the cut of this dress is fine, but I don’t think the colors are quite there.

       As an aside, for the formal evening on the cruise I was on, there was just about every type of dress imaginable. I wore a floor length cream and black dress from H&M and it was gorgeous, but one of the “classier” dresses. Quite a few of the other patrons were not dressed remotely close to cocktail or formal. A few still had swimsuits on under their dresses. The point of this anecdote is that anything will fly for cruise standards. But if you’re trying to make an impression, I would go with something more classic. Bring a few things with you as well, so you can get an indication of what others are wearing.

    7. I can see what you mean about the Easter vibe, but I notice that more with the lavendar and green than I do with the pink. I think it’s a lovely dress!

       Just an FYI to those who had trouble with the link: if you copy and paste it onto a new tab, you’ll be directed to the right page. For some reason, clicking the link only directs you to the homepage.

27. Has anyone taken voice lessons or used a speech or vocal coach for work? I speak well when I’m prepared, but I’ve been in a lot of situations lately where I feel tongue tied. I find it hard to verbalize on the spot and I tend to mumble, lower my volume, speak too fast, and add annoying filler words. I want to work on some things like on breathing techniques, pacing, or enunciation. I used to sing in a chorus ages ago- maybe taking it up again would help too Any suggestions? I’m in the Philly area

    1. No suggestions but this is something I have also thought about. Especially since I read somewhere that Margaret Thatcher used a voice coach to gain more authority in Parliament. I don’t think I have trouble speaking or even public speaking but I do think I could be better and that being better would ultimately be a big boon to one’s career (and life generally).

    2. I’ve been considering joining Toastmasters because I don’t like public speaking. Do they address the issues that you are having? Does anyone have any experience with Toastmasters?

       1. No personal experience with Toastmasters, but my lawyer daughter likes it. She tried several different groups before finding the right one. Some clubs, or whatever they’re called, will have more educated and professional members than others. Daughter feels she’s getting real help with public speaking, as well as some mentoring and exposure to some interesting people.

    3. No specific suggestions for Philly (nor have I ever done Toastmasters), but a speech/drama coach worked with a small group of us for 1-2 hours as part of the week-long NITA trial skills class I took when I was still doing litigation. We were each videotaped as well, and it was incredibly helpful to have this woman’s coaching and even more helpful to watch and hear one’s self in playback.

       I know there are different speech and presentation coaches that have given similar workshops and held seminars through the SF Bar Association, so perhaps you could start by asking the local bar group?

    4. No, but this is what my brother-in-law (a former speech coach and professor, and now a lawyer) is thinking about starting a new business in (mostly for lawyers)! But he hasn’t, yet.

    5. I could be wrong but I think a speech/drama coach would be better than voice lessons. I am a singer and a confident speaker but never thought about them being related.

28. Anyone know any great hetero single guys in the 25-40ish age range? I work in an almost all female field and someone mentioned how many great single guys are in the legal field because they’re working too often to date…

    Forget paying for match.com (never worked for me, nor has okcupid), I figured I’d ask here! :)

    1. I dated one of those great single guys – except he was always too busy. I only saw him on the weekends, and work often came first. If they really wanted to be dating, they’d make time for it.

       1. sometimes I wonder if it’s be ok to have a partner who’s really busy because it’d mean independence that comes with being single plus a mate, but maybe I’m wrong?

          1. No no, I concur. Having your own life, friends, and activities is great and makes you a better person. I couldn’t handle a 24-7 relationshop.

          2. It’s not for everyone but it works for me. I was married for a long time and didn’t realize how suffocating it was until after the divorce. Now, with my current (wonderful) SO, we only see each other a couple of times a week but when we do, it’s great. I have enjoyed having my own independent life while having the support of a partner in my life.

    2. I’m a lawyer and I never meet any great single guys who are lawyers so I fear this might be a myth!

       1. I would ALSO like to meet a good one who is NOT a alchoholic. FOOEY! Alan was an almost total ZERO, tho I did enjoy alot THINGS about the relationeship while it lasted.

          1. Ellen, you mentioned that you gave your DIGIT’S to two guys at a party over the holidays. I had assumed that they both called early the next morning to ask you out. Did you find out their salaries were inadequate?

             1. No. I want a guy who does NOT just want to sleep with me. To many guys just want sex, not a relationshep. These guys did call but they did not want to get to know me slowly. I want a lawyer. FOOEY.

    3. Every male associate in my office is either married or in a very long-term relationship. There are, however, many gorgeous, talented, funny single women (including, if I do say so myself, me), SIGH.

29. Oh gosh, that poor designer’s last name is Merkin? Did that jump out at anyone else?

    1. Yes. :)

    2. I thought I was the only one!

30. Just bought a pretty new wallet from that sale! It’s my present to myself during this super boring bar prep!

31. Along the same lines as the thread about the voice coach, has anyone had an “assertiveness” coach? I’ve been told by one of the partners at my old firm that I need to sound more assertive on the phone (i.e. less mousy, high pitched, and quite). When it comes to handling cases by pushing motions and discovery, I’m pretty aggressive but when it comes to face to face dealings and conversations with opposing counsel on the phone, I’m afraid I come off less confident and even intimidated sounding in my body language as well as in my voice and how I say/word things. I’ve been thinking that there has to be some kind of coaching/training program for targeting these issues? Any ideas?

    1. I am a therapist but have also taught in specific areas of life, including this one. Some people (more often women) need some training on assertive words, vocal choices, and presentations. Often this work can be done via phone or skype.

       If you want to chat more, email me on my private account: munchkin1616 at juno dot com

    2. Hehe I have the opposite- met a tall, old German guy last year in person after many phone meetings and he said “you sound much bigger on the phone than you are in person”- kind of a rude thing to say but I thought it was funny- I am petite, freckled, thin and look younger than 35. I am assertive with a deeper voice. WHere I could use help is being more polished/formal perhaps, or things I don’t know I do. I just started communications media training at my company which may be helpful- they film you in a group and critique your mannerisms etc. Not for executive purposes but for media, but it all flows together.

32. Ladies,
    You’ve always been so great, and I really need you now. How do you support a close friend and be strong through a terminal diagnosis? Any books, tips, words of encouragement (for me or for her)? The patient is like my “fake mom”–she is 69 to my, shall we say, much younger. But we are very close and this diagnosis is an enormous shock. Doc says 6 months to a year, dependng on progression, andwe just found out on Thursday. (Not cancer, buta degenerative lung disease). called idiopahtic pulmonary fibrosis. nary

    1. Very sorry for her and you. I think this is important – if your friend wants to talk about death and dying, let her. She knows she will die, you know too, and it is terrifying at some level. If she can talk about that with you it will help so much. Crying in front of your friend is ok, and telling her how much you love her. Depending on where things are time-wise, reminiscing about events in her life, is good, especially if there are some funny events you can think of. Also bringing your friend some of her favorite things, like her favorite foods, magazines, flowers etc.

    2. There’s no right answer, so know that. If your heart is in the right place and you establish a situation where she knows she can tell you if something you’re doing isn’t helping, you’re in the best position.

       Just follow her lead. If she wants to cry, let her. If she wants to be treated like she was before this, take her to the movies or on go-karts or whatever. Don’t pretend this isn’t happening but don’t treat her as if this diagnosis is all she is.

       In addition, make sure you have plans in place for your own support. You’ll need it too!

33. Hey ladies –

    I just got my hair cut, and am now in need of a flat iron to prevent it from getting too poofy. If anyone has any recommendations (I think it was discussed on a thread a couple weeks ago but I can’t find it!) I’d really appreciate it. I have fairly thick hair, so I’m not sure what size to get.

    1. I love my “Remington Wet 2 Straight 2″ Wide Plate Wet/Dry Ceramic Hair Straightening Iron with Tourmaline.” It works on damp hair pretty well

       1. I use the same one! I love that I don’t have to blow dry it first. I also have a ton of hair!

          1. I use this too! But I never use it on wet hair, that just seems so wrong to me. Mine has lasted 5 years!! Great for the price!

    2. I have two different HAI flat irons. What I like about them is the fact that the temperature is adjustable, so I can change how “flat” my hair gets. I have one that is a really skinny one and a 1.5 ” one (standard). The skinny one is good when I just want to do the front face-framing part.

34. Since when did bank tellers stop putting all the bills facing in the same direction when they give you your cash? Really, it would be too much trouble to put all the faces in the same direction? Really?

    1. As someone who used to be a bank teller back in the dark ages, I agree wholeheartedly!!

35. Does anyone else struggle with the fiscal implications of professional choices?

    I left a BigLaw partnership a few years ago for a government position. Most of the time, I am very happy with my choice. My work is fabulously interesting. I work literally M-F 9-5. Before I left I paid all debt except my mortgage and saved roughly $500K. I make enough to pay all my expenses, plus save 20% of gross for retirement, plus travel (although not as luxuriously as when I was in private practice). I now have to save for things like replacing the carpet in the house or replacing the car when it comes time, whereas before that would have been something I paid for out of cash flow. But in general I have what I need and a lot of what I want. I estimate that by my late 40s, I will have $1M in non-house assets. I have a very modest mortgage that will be paid off when I am 65 (I currently have $550K equity in a $775K house). Compared to most of the country (world) and even many lawwyers, I am just fine.

    But sometimes, when I think about what my peers are making, and about the way my neighbors live, I feel regret. My peers make 5x to 7x what I make (and I know that is where I would be if I were still at the firm). I live in a county known for conspicuous wealth and consumption. (Perhaps one difference: I actually own everything I have.) I think maybe, maybe if Ihad just stayed five more years. I could have saved another $3M. Then I could do anything I wanted.

    Does anyone struggle with this?

    1. Are you married? Do you have kids?

       You sound like you have a lot of free time… ;-)

       1. Living with partner and his teenager. His other slightly older kid lives nearby and is a less-frequent but regular part of our household. Single the entire time I was in private practice (2,500 – 3,000 hour years, you know). I also adjunct.

          In addition to the time I devote to my relationship (partner + me) and the family (partner + kids + me), the time I have now that I didn’t have then is spent: sleeping (not excessively, but a regular 8 hours), shopping/cooking/eating healthy food, exercising, being on top of my personal paperwork (bank statements, insurance, etc).

          1. Also: reading, keeping up with friends and family — none of which I could do in private practice.

    2. Yes, I kick myself weekly for not going into investment banking.
       MJ kindly pointed out once that that was probably a smart move but I still wish I had those big, sweet bonuses.

    3. You may not be ungrateful, but you are annoying. You sound enormously privileged and you made a thought-out decision. Live with it, or get back to corporate life, but don’t b*tch on an online forum.

       1. Have to agree-this is a complaint I just can’t deal with. Right now I’m stuck under huge student loans, will rent for a long time, and am worried about having enough money when our first baby arrives in June. Go back to corporate life or make peace with your inability to match the material consumption of your peers. Also, I have PLENTY of friends that make more than I do (work for govn’t as well). I’m a lot happier than they are. And I’m not jealous of their money.

          1. @ Anon & (to a lesser degree) stc:
             I think this response is totally uncalled for. Everyone’s problems/concerns are different. This is actually exactly the kind of thing I think you should discuss in an online forum like this one because it’s the kind of thing that can be enormously difficult to say out loud to your friends and peers. Whether you think it’s a valid problem is irrelevant. The OP is simply acknowledging something she feels.

             To the OP, I think you made a conscious decision. Life is about trade offs. It’s normal to sometimes miss the things you gave up, but try to remember why you gave them up in the first place — no time, no sleep, no personal life. Also, while I don’t think you sound ungrateful, per se, it is important to consciously remember to be grateful. Maybe you should use some of your free time to volunteer in a different county. Or, maybe you should go back to private practice. But then, of course, you’d be giving some other kinds of luxuries up, too.

       2. My first thought was that this was a #humblebrag, but I’m trying to be charitable, so here goes:

          OP, it sounds as if you’re measuring your life relative to others. While that can be a useful benchmark at times, as an ongoing strategy it’s a sure way to add constant dissatisfaction to your life. I find it much more useful to ask this: If I were the only person on the planet but still in this situation, would I be happy with it? (Yes, I know it’s a logical fallacy given that there are other people in your scenario, but work with me here.)

          Also, because we can’t help but compare ourselves to others, it sounds like your sample is skewed. It might help if you spend more time thinking about those less privileged than you rather than more. I dislike volunteering-as-a-zoo-exhibit, so suggest lots of reading about people who haven’t your blessings. Third-world countries, up-from-nothing stories (“A Girl Named Zippy,” etc.)

          Finally, because I understand that wistfulness you have: I had to stop reading Vanity Fair and the other glossies. The constant barrage of “look what you could have had if only…” seriously skewed my thinking of what “normal” was.

          1. I love this response. I too have sworn off certain glossies, including Vogue (although I still read Vanity Fair for certain articles while attempting to ignore the celebrity worship).

    4. I think about this quite a bit too. Financial security is a real concern, and everyone’s “number” is slightly different. I went to school with many who are now bankers and lawyers, but I chose a different route, and it’s quite obvious how much more harder I have to be conscious of my spending in order to save for the future, and my “number” is quite high in order for me to feel financially secure.

       Are you able to return to Big Law? I think such thoughts are an opportunity to change your life if possible. I realized last year that decent, not great pay + uninteresting work isn’t the best equation, so I’m taking steps to return to school and get credentialed for a better career.

    5. Your feelings are a natural result of having too much free time and not enough perspective. Unless you want to return to work to make that last $3M, I’d get busy with some activities that benefit others less fortunate than you, and make a conscious effort to stop feeling sorry for yourself.

       Also, if this is a troll, nice effort. You really do have too much free time.

    6. We all make trade-offs in our lives. I am an academic and my brother is a corporate VP. I have a much better education than he does, but as you might expect, he makes a lot more than I do. We were both lucky enough, with parental help, not to have much education debt. That said, when I think about how I want to live my life, I love my job, I like the hours and my time off. He works hard for the money and he is also, at age 50, going back to school to get an MBA to make himself more marketable in the future. So you have to decide if job satisfaction and having more free time are enough to counterbalance the money you could be making.

    7. I’m surprised that you would build a $775,000 house under a bridge.

    8. weigh the costs… you’re not getting more money in this job but you’re getting more free time, more personal life, etc. etc. There’s no right answer here but not only should you figure out which has the perks that make you happier, you should also remind yourself of how many of those wealthier peers have tons more debt, health issues, and no social life.

       also, some time spent volunteering for low-income or no-income folks might do you well in helping you with prioritizing!

    9. So sorry it seems you’re having a hard time getting a sensible response to your post. The fact is that most folks are failing to keep up with the 1% (the recent Congress statistics showing expansion of US income inequality in the last 10 years) and I don’t think you are alone in the next 2 – 3% wondering whether if you’ve somehow missed out.

       It’s good that you know where your personal finances stand and that they are pleasingly solid. On the other stuff, it may help to recognise that you and your neighbours are part of a bigger story of change in America. You may or may not like it but either way, you shouldn’t take it too personally.

       1. I actually think the responses, both the harsh ones and the not-so harsh ones, are all reasonable and sensible reactions to her original post, which asks “Am I ungrateful?” The OP obviously has a very comfortable life that she both worked hard for and enjoys very much – as evidenced by the details of her financial situation and all the things she now has free time for.

          Is she ungrateful? Yes, a bit. Is that a normal human instinct? Again, yes. She is in a situation that 97% of the country would envy. Maybe 99%. The mix of responses, ranging from empathy to disgust, simply serve to put some context around her situation (and it sounds like context is hard to come by in her neighborhood).

          Frankly, it would be foolish to post something like this in a public online forum and expect only sympathy and feel-good comments. Hopefully, the OP is not here looking for validation but for honest discussion.

          1. I’m so glad you said this. It’s annoying for folks to respond to negative but authentic responses with, “This is enormously uncalled for.”

    10. You see how your neighbors live, but you don’t have any idea what goes on behind closed doors. I have a friend who is a banker who works with a lot of clients in one of those counties known for conspicuous wealth. He says very few of them buy anything outright, and when they go into default, it is it just for $225K. It’s for millions.

        There’s a lot to be said for owning everything you have and being in a stable situation where your salary isn’t going to change much based on business. It sounds like you may have left biglaw a few years ago before the economy tanked. I know in my area, a lot of biglaw partners were struggling because they had lost the bulk of their big clients. I think you are probably optimistic in thinking you could have saved another $3 million in just a few years.

    11. You’re comfortably upper class, and you had the chance to become wealthy, but you passed it up and you have some regrets. That’s normal. Everyone wonders about the road not taken. I don’t know why you got so many harsh responses.

        If you’d stayed at biglaw, you’d have other regrets. Millions of dollars don’t do you much good if you don’t have family and friends to share them with.

    12. You need to stop paying attention to other people (i.e. your neighbors/peers/etc). Who cares? But you were in BigLaw for a long time and you probably lived most of your life in a way where you were defined by comparing your position/status/achievements to others in your peer group. It can be hard to get out of that mindset. But you need to- it is a warped perspective and winning that contest is not a path to happiness. Live your life with blinders on. The only life you need to pay attention to is your own. Think about it this way- fast forward to your funeral, who will be there? What will they say about you? what do you want them to say about you? I suspect it’s not all your rich friends talking about the 70k car you did or didn’t drive. But I don’t know your life. If you can’t get past it and you must win at this keeping-up-with-the-joneses ridiculousness, then quit your job and go back to private practice. Otherwise, you need to get over it. And you will be a happier and better person when you do.

    13. The good news is that you realize your regrets are ridiculous. My advice is the same as if you were someone ridiculously worried that her boyfriend was cheating on her despite any evidence suggesting that is, or someone whose kids are pulling straight A’s but is upset because one of those was an A-: take a deep breath, stop legitimizing ridiculous anxieties, and do whatever you need to do to get some perspective (have a conversation with a non-rich person, get therapy, find something else to occupy your headtime).

    14. It’s common to have regrets about the road not taken. If you’d stayed on as a partner at your firm, maybe you’d still be single and regretting all of the years you’d wasted billing 2500 hours per year instead of finding a balanced life and a loving relationship.

        I’m a mid-level associate, so it feels a bit odd to be giving advice to someone at your level, but I’ll give you the same speech I gave to a friend of mine who was agonizing over quitting her 3000-hour-per-year biglaw job: the job doesn’t go home with you at night. It doesn’t hold you when you’re crying; it doesn’t laugh with you; it doesn’t remember you when you’ve died. People do those things.

        I’m a young and very healthy woman, and earlier this year I found myself dying on an emergency room table. Since then, everything I do is directed at finding a way to leave my soul-destroying biglaw job and have a life where I can love, and be with friends, and remember who I am again.

        Is it natural to wonder about the road not taken? Yes. Is it a bit unreasonable to regret your particular choices? Yes. I think you’ve lost sight of why you made them and you need to remember that. Take it from me: life can change in an instant. Joy and friendship and love are pearls without price. Your neighbors’ vacation in Gstaad isn’t.

        1. Cbackson, either I missed the ER report or you kept it hush-hush (no expectation that you would share it) but I’m so happy you’re among the living…which sounds funny since we’ve never met. Take care!

           1. Aw, thanks! I appreciate it. I don’t remember if I said anything about it – I went into hypoglycemic shock/heat stroke at a marathon, and ended up going into cardiac arrest. I’m fine now, but it was a pretty rough (and eye-opening) couple of days for me.

              1. Oh my goodness! This is terrifying! I am so glad you’re okay now. As someone who is training for her first half marathon in two months, do you have any advice?

    15. I came from a family that had very little money, and at times not enough, so I don’t think it’s ungrateful or spoiled to think about what would happen if you made more.

        I work for a large company in a well regarded field with good stability and security, and I work fairly regular hours most of the year. We do have a busy season, when we all work really long days, but it’s only two months out of the year vs. every day all year long.

        I have friends in the same field who went out and started their own businesses or became partners at consulting firms. These friends have a lot more money now than I do – or at least the ones who were successful do – and I don’t exactly envy them, because I know I made the choice to have stability and security by working for a large company. But I am aware that they now have more options than I do, including retiring any time they wish to.

        However, I remind myself that these guys (and they are mostly guys) will not retire early, because they are the type that will work work work until they die, not retire, which is what made them the types to get on that partnership track or start their own firms.

        I sometimes struggle with whether I should make a change to something more risky and potentially more rewarding now, in my prime earning years. But my kids are young, and I guess I have decided that I’ll work until I’m 67 in order to have more time with my kids while they’re still interested in being with me. :)

    16. You are quite fortunate. As you well know, choices have consequences. You can choose differently if saving another $3M is that important to you. You are fortunate to have this choice at all.

        If envy/jealousy is your struggle, perhaps pro bono legal work or some other volunteering for the financially struggling would help you increase your gratitude.

    17. I’m going to be anonymous for this.

        I’m in Biglaw and enjoy it, including the money, to be candid. I grew up with very little, so I would have had difficulty choosing any job that did not have a financial payoff (and now I can take care of my parents, give away $ to good causes, indulge in hobbies, etc.). I understand why you posted this question here, bc you really cannot ask this from people you work with and this site, which showcases $2K+ purses, is probably the only forum where you could get someone to respond beyond “I could be so lucky.”

        I also understand your regret, bc if you had stayed in Biglaw, by this point you could have retired from law altogether and traveled around the world, paid for vaccines in Africa, taken care of elderly family members, etc. So, if you’re really looking for advice, I would say this: Do Not Regret sunk costs. You can’t go back in time, so what can you do now? If you think that that kind of money would mean something to you now, then make a plan to go back in to Biglaw. If you were a partner before, and you sound like you have some relevant experience (and if you’re in the DC area, I imagine that your govt experience would translate to a number of biglaw firms), then you should be able to flip back.

        So, ask yourself: Do you want to go back to that? Or was it so soulcrushing that you can’t imagine another minute? If you can’t go back, do the things that you always imagined you would while you were at the firm (learn guitar, help teach people to read, etc.). You will feel better, knowing that you made the right decision, either way.

36. Hey guys,

    Looking for a recommendation for a website where I can plan all of my meals and store recipes. The idea would be to use this as part of a diet plan. Lots of stuff around but not sure what’s best. Any recommendations would be great.

    1. I used relish relish for a while, where you choose 4 or 5 meals for the week and you print out both grocery lists and recipes. It worked well, but I am a fairly imaginative cook and I found it limiting. If I were just learning to cook, I would have liked it better, I think. It did seem to save time.

       1. http://www.relishrelish.com/homepage.aspx#

       2. “It worked well, but I am a fairly imaginative cook and I found it limiting. If I were just learning to cook, I would have liked it better, I think.”

          Is exactly the problem I had with Relish and similar sites. I currently use pinterest to mark the recipes I think look good, and just plan the rest on paper.

    2. http://savingdinner.com/ – her recipes are pretty good and she has crockpot recipes also. I think you can download a sample menu.

37. My husband, who is an engineer and doesn’t shop, would like me to get him a pair of pants for his birthday. He is 27 years old, 6-1, quite athletic, but he has extremely skinny legs and butt. He told me his pants size is 31 or 32. He’s not looking for jeans, but something just marginally dressier (like cords or khakis). Does anyone here have a man in their life with those measurements and have suggestions for brands or stores that carry pants that fit tall and skinny men?

    1. Sorry, he’s 31×32. I haven’t bought enough men’s clothes lately!

       1. My DH is the same measurements and build. I’ve had good luck with Eddie khakis for him. I get him the plain front style, usually a darker color (dark tan, grey, or green), never the light tan. Also, Levi’s makes cords that fit him well.

    2. BR fits my tall but slender husband without too much extra fabric. If you want to go upscale from that, head toward good European lines. Avoid BB unless he is average t0 wide in the rear.

    3. My 45 y.o. cousin and 19 y.o. nephew are both tall and lanky and they love lands end pants because you can order them to your exact inseam. For a more modern fit, you can check out the lands end canvas line.

       1. Just beware that the Canvas line may not have inseams to order – if the men’s clothing is anything like the women’s clothing, they only seem to have the one inseam length.

    4. Was just shopping with my boyfriend, who has a slightly larger waist size, but virtually the same stats (age, height, etc.). We both loved how JCrew stuff fit him (Vintage Slim / 484 Slim http://www.jcrew.com/mens_category/pantsbyfit.jsp) He got jeans and chinos, but there are a number of fabric options available that all looked great. Like another commenter said, he also usually wears Boss, Drykorn, Zara, etc.

       1. Also, not sure if your boyfriend is as into clothes as mine, but if you have to PRY him away the displays of flimsy looking overpriced Chukka/McAlister boots at JCrew, Clarks has sturdier alternatives in multiple colors that were available at DSW.

    5. My guy is 6’1″ and wears a 32×34. his go to pants are the dockers classic fit. (they’re pleated too.) He’s 27 and this cut of pants has been his go-to since private high school. Also if your guy is an odd size you can look online for more sizes than you’ll find in stores. My husband’s mom used to order his pants from the jc penny catalog too.

38. drats. I mean Eddie Bauer. :)

39. I meant to post yesterday. My nutra sonic travel arrived yesterday. I’d tried my sister-in-law’s clarisonic Mia. I think mine actually might be better. The nutra sonic has 2 speeds (one for sensitive skin and one for regular skin). It also comes with 2 brushes.

    Per the WSJ and Amazon.com reviews, it’s just as good, but about $50 cheaper.

    1. Ooh, fun! I cheaped out and got the Olay one and really love it. After only a few uses, my skin looks amazing! I had some blotchy, bumpy skin on the sides of my face and it is nearly all cleared up.

40. Fiance and I are looking at an Alaska cruise for our honeymoon. Does anyone have any recommendations, either good or bad?

    1. I’m booked on Holland America for July, so I can tell you then my experience. Also, timing wise – because of the weather, you can only go on cruises to Alaska in late spring – summer – early fall.

    2. Cruise lines have different feels based on the clientele. Holland America is more for elderly people, so it tends to be quieter and won’t have as much going on the evenings. I have a friend who just got back from a Thanksgiving cruise on Holland and said it was really dead after 10pm.

       Norwegian and Royal Caribbean have the most going on in terms of entertainment and dining options, but they also seem to include less- Norwegian especially is known for nickel and diming people. If you want to see shows, you will probably have to book in advance.

       Carnival is more of a budget line with a lot of kids. They don’t nickel and dime you that much, but the ships themselves aren’t quite as nice as some of the others. I haven’t had a bad experience with the clientele, but have heard from others that it can sometimes get pretty rowdy/crazy. It has decent entertainment options, but there aren’t as many common areas as you’ll find in other ships. This makes it feel pretty crowded most of the time.

       Princess is kind of middle of the road in terms of clientele. The ships themselves are fairly nice and there’s a decent amount of common space to be able to find a place to sit in a lounge even when the weather is bad. The food is comparable to Holland and Carnival (they are all owned by the same people) and the entertainment is only a step above Holland. The prices are usually comparable to Carnival on the cheaper end though.

       Celebrity is a little pricier (in the Royal Caribbean range) and I think it has the best food in the bunch. Even crew raves about the food options on Celebrity cruises. The quality of ingredients is much higher and you’ll actually see fresh fruit (the rules for Carnival et al are ridiculous in this respect) at the end of the cruise that appears to be edible. The lounges are also very nice, but the entertainment is not the strong area.

       I recommend going on cruisecritic to read the reviews there. They can be very enlightening and can give you lots of insider views on a particular ship.

    3. My family went on an Alaska Cruise in August 2010 on Princess, and it was really lovely. We were on the Diamond Princeton ship. The food was quite good, although you have to book ahead to get the special dining room for dinner (which had pretty good food, especially good fish, and really excellent service).

       The best part of the cruises are going into Alaska itself, obviously, particularly the tours there. We actually flew into Anchorage and did some on-land tours before embarking on the ship seeing McKinley and Denali National Parks before heading out from Whittier. My favorite tours are definitely those centered on seeing the wildlife in Alaska. On the cruise ship, there were shows every night, but the crowd definitely skews older, I think this is probably true of all cruises except maybe Disney, where it must skew very young.

       After getting off from the cruise in Vancouver, I would recommend staying there for a day or two before heading home. (Sorry to all the Seattle-ites on this board, but I liked Vancouver *much* better than Seattle itself, although I have heard good things about the national parks near Seattle).

    4. I’ve been on Royal Caribbean and on Norwegian… and the service on Royal Caribbean blows Norwegian’s out of the water (no pun intended). Norwegian’s food was also unimpressive (and especially difficult if you had dietary restrictions), so I’d recommend Royal Caribbean if at all possible.

       I’ve also had friends/family who preferred Carnival over Norwegian, but I’ve never been on Carnival myself.

Comments are closed.