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Updated: Oct 31, 2018 336 Comments · by

Weekend Open Thread

Weekend Open Thread

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Tervis mugSomething on your mind? Chat about it here. Readers turned me on to Tervis products a while ago, and while I like them for water glasses, I'm loving the new Tervis mug I just bought. I've been getting into drinking hot water with lemon (I am a total weirdo and can't stand tea), and wanted a large mug that was just for that. They're $9.99-$12.99 at Amazon (I got it in clear but am featuring the pretty green since it looks better on the screen). Tervis Mug Psst: Fun fact: when I started the Weekend Open Thread on Corporette, it almost exclusively featured mugs or other glasses — I had just gotten married and was obsessed with all the pretty china I'd seen while registering. The idea was that we were all getting together over coffee (or wine, or martinis) to chat. Cheers to you guys! P.P.S.: If you don't yet have nice champagne glasses, these Orrefors ones are on a nice sale at Nordstrom.

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Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. Aurora

    Vicarious shopping challenge, please! I saw a woman in the cutest, well-tailored green and navy plaid button down the other day, but haven’t been able to find anything like it online. It was a gorgeous kelly/emerald green, not sure if it was flannel or not.

    Also looking for a tweed jacket with some navy in it if you have any suggestions. Thanks, hive!

    • Anonymous

      Well-tailored probably means shirting fabric, and not flannel. Flannel always looks a little soft and fuzzy. Plaid doesn’t always mean flannel :)

      Jcrew has had some really pretty plaids in their perfect shirt cut. I got the large-ish scale Stewart plaid one over the holidays – I ended up taking it back because it was really a smidge too small to justify keeping. Totally bummed, as it had pretty much sold out of all other sizes.

    • Cat

      Brooks Brothers has a small-scale black watch plaid non-iron shirt — it has a v-neck collar with a ruffle edge. Seconding JCrew as a likely place to find cute plaids in general.

    • Doodles

      I got the Gibson Zip Pocket Blazer at Nordstrom this weekend. Love it! It’s a dark navy and white. Wore it to work with a navy pencil skirt and was complimented all day.

    • Anonymous

      I have a shirt very similar to that which came from the Tommy Hilfiger outlet. Don’t see much on their website just now though.

      • Aurora

        Oooh, Tommy Hilfiger is a brand I haven’t thought of since high school. Don’t see anything exactly what I’m looking for on the site at the moment, but they have some stuff that’s pretty close, plus tons of other cute stuff I’m now drooling over – thanks for the thought and for reintroducing me to the brand!

  2. Two Cents

    Anyone have recommendations for a black eyeliner that stays put and doesn’t cause raccoon eyes? I also have sensitive eyes (I wear contacts) so something that doesn’t irritate my eyes as well. TIA.

    • Minnie Beebe

      Blinc brand. It’s the only thing I can wear without it smudging. It’s a liquid eyeliner though, which may or may not be what you’re looking for. But once it’s dry, it does not come off until you want it to.

    • Coach Laura

      Almay liquid. With contacts and sensitive skin/eyes, I could never tolerate anything that wasn’t liquid and this gives good results every time.

    • Mindy

      MAC liquidliner. It paints on like acrylic paint and stays on.

      Not quite so severe = bobby brown shadow base + eyeliner

    • Eyeliner rec

      Sephora brand retractable waterproof eyeliner. Feels great going on, does not budge, and comes off easily with eye makeup remover at the end of the day. It’s even great for my inner lower lid/water line.

      • Anonymous

        Sephora’s house brand in general seems to be really good quality. I use the same eyeliner for my waterline, and I also love the Fine Line liquid liner they have – easiest way to get a subtle line. I think my favorite product from their house brand is the cream lip stain, though. I get compliments on that rich red (shade 01, I think) every single time I wear it. :D

    • Anonymous

      I have really sensitive eyes too and I love Bobbi Brown gel liner. You’ll want to go with a liquid or gel in general if you want long-lasting.

    • DC Anon

      The Stila waterproof liquid eyeliner pen! I have oily eyelids too and this stays put, doesn’t irritate my sensitive eyes, and comes off easily with makeup remover.

  3. Anon

    UGH I have to vent. Yet another friend is going through a vicious divorce with the same pattern.
    1) husband cheats on wife
    2) wife asks for divorce
    3) divorce proceedings become nasty and bitter because husband wants to stick it to the wife on custody and child support (mainly, goes for more custody not to spend time with kids, but to avoid paying child support. Hauls mom into court time after time after time over the most minor issues)

    I’m 50. This is the FIFTH friend of mine going through this same pattern.

    Those of you who are adult children of divorce, did any of your dads do this to your mom? How is your relationship with your mom?

    • Anonymous

      & this is why people should think pretty hard before leaning out or letting their spouse do that.

      • OP

        Yep, two were SAHMs. Really messed everything up. One of the dad went for full custody because his NEW wife was able to stay home full time and the kids mom now had to work full time.

          • OP

            He didn’t win full custody, thankfully, but in his negotiations with the panicked mom, he got his child support reduced, which was pretty clearly his goal.

        • VJ

          So sad. Men need to know that if they marry, they should only make love to their spouse. Till death do us part.

      • blue

        Yup. I was just about to comment how I know a few amicably divorced and super admirably co-parenting couples, so it doesn’t have to go down like that — then I realized the mom in both situations was always self-supporting financially.

        • Anonymous

          Yes — annecdata on this pattern also

          $ doesn’t fix anything, but it might fix this.

      • Anonymous

        Ugh, can we not start shaming SAHMs every time the subject of divorce comes up? I work and plan to continue working after I have kids, but the judgment about stay at home parents here really, really bothers me. Many people where both members of the couple work have horrible divorces. And many couples with a stay at home parent have long, happy marriages. In fact, if you want to get technical about it, studies actually show that marriages where one parent stays home are happier. I would understand it more if OP’s post was about women having trouble re-entering the workforce when they got divorced but the question had NOTHING to do with that, just about bitter divorces and custody battles, which is a subject that is totally unrelated to being a SAHM. I’m not sure why SAHM-judgment has to be thrown into every question about family life.

        • OP

          Hi, I’m not bashing SAHMs. I mentioned above that two of my five friends in this situation were SAHMs and they had to go back to work. (And in fact, it wasn’t easy for them to get back into the workforce)

          • Anonymous

            My sister is going through this and I can’t overstate how terrified she is that the word she knows is ending and her financial security along with it. Child support ends when the kid turns 18, but her bills will not and I have no idea how retirement will work for her. She let her professional licenses lapse and with kids and no help hasn’t been able to go to classes or get recertified. Plus, with working and a large family, will likely not be able to afford good child care.

            Again, it is terrifying to her. I’ve always worked and just cannot imagine losing my lifelihood. SAHM was her career path and she is getting fired and no one else is going to “hire” her.

          • Anonymous

            My comment was not directed at you OP. It was in reply to the Anon at 1:59

          • Anonymous

            I’m the anon below whose mom went back to school to become a teacher. We had some tighter times post-divorce while my siblings and I were still at home (luckily we were old enough that child care wasn’t a huge issue), but it is nothing compared to the retirement challenge my mom faces. It makes me really sad that she is essentially trapped in a job because she needs to stay in the same district in order to qualify for her pension/health benefits and have any hope of ever retiring. She makes the best of it, and I don’t think she regrets the divorce or the decision to be a SAHM, but she does point out that she would have been able to retire by now if she hadn’t gone the SAHM route.

            I don’t think anyone’s intending to shame or judge SAHMs, and I work because I enjoy having a career, not because I’m afraid of divorce. But it is a nice bit of security to have in my back pocket just in case things unexpectedly go south. It’s a fair point to make on the subject of divorce.

        • blue

          I am not intending to shame SAHMs — far from it — in situations like these, they are often the givers and get screwed for it. It is just a sad truth that if things go south in the marriage (not because of the SAHM status, but because any marriage is at risk), the division of $ is more likely to leave her in a crappy position.

        • anonymous

          I am not intending to shame SAHMs — far from it — in situations like these, they are often the givers and get screwed for it. It is just a sad truth that if things go south in the marriage (not because of the SAHM status, but because any marriage is at risk), the division of $ is more likely to leave her in a crappy position.

        • Brunchaholic

          Hmmmm….. how is this shaming?

          Husbands generally cannot afford to pay SAHMs what their true value is if you were reduce it economically. Naturally, when divorce comes knocking, ex-husbands don’t WANT to pay SAHMs what their true value is… so they try to game the system. OP is voicing frustration with that. It only supports SAHMs and points out reality. Determining what is “equitable” in a divorce is infinitely tougher when you compare apples and oranges versus apples and apples. No one said there was anything wrong with oranges…

          • Shopaholic

            +1 – one of the only things I retained from my property class in law school was that if you don’t work and get divorced, you could get infinitely scr3wed

        • SA

          I didn’t see any shaming on SAHMs it was noted as anecdata about the way the divorces went down.

          • Blame Canada

            Um, well, it is a site for professional women after all, so I think it is perfectly reasonable that it skews towards women who place a reasonable amount of emphasis on their careers. I think there is a lot of support for a variety of choices but there is a *big* difference between leaning out and dropping out. If dropping out it one’s choice, great, but everyone should understand that brings with it a host of vulnerabilities. Choices have consequences – why pretend otherwise?

        • needanewmoniker

          this study – do you have a link? are you saying ‘happy’ just because they aren’t divorced?

        • Baconpancakes

          Late in the weekend, but I’m not sure it’s “shaming” to say “hey, maybe you should consider the potential ramifications of putting all your financial eggs in someone else’s basket, even if you could never conceive of that person being a jerk and ending your marriage, and if you decide to go ahead with it, it’s of course your decision.”

          My SO’s mother was a stay-at-home mother, but just for kicks, decided to get her PhD while her kids were in high school. She loved being a SAHM and having time to ride her horses, but when her youngest was in 10th grade, her husband announced he wanted a divorce, completely out of the blue. With her fresh PhD as reentry into her field, she was able to get a position as a professor at the local college without too much trouble, and continue to support herself comfortably. Now she is adamant about her daughter having her own career and credentials, and she’s even encouraging me to get as much education as I possibly can and always keep up with my field.

    • Anonymous

      My dad cheated on my mom AFTER I had left the house (my brother was still living at home in his senior year of high school but was 18 by the time dad moved out).

      1) my dad cheated on my mom
      2) my dad asked for the divorce (they went to therapy, he ultimately decided he wanted to be with the other woman)
      3) cue nasty bitter embroiled divorce that is honestly still going on – they are finally legally divorced, just sold the house, but still in court with each other.

      I have a good friend in a bad custody situation (they were never married) – I could see how a third party would see him “just not wanting to pay child support” but he actually authentically does want to spend more time with his daughter. How do you know that’s what this is? Has the ex-husband/father told you?

      My relationship with my mother is bad. She leaned on me too heavily during the divorce, and I regularly go no-contact with her for long periods of time. Things are okay at the moment. My give a shit is super broken when it comes to her – and frankly, knowing her now I am impressed my father stayed as long as he did. (My dad paid for a good deal of my brother’s expenses while he was in school.)

      • Ellen

        Yay! Open thread’s! I love Open thread’s, and especialy this Thread, Kat, b/c it affects nearly all of us, at least those of us who are MARRIED!

        I say FOOEY to husband’s who cheat. And that is exactley why Mom and Dad told me to get a JD degree — so that I would NOT JUST have a BA and have no skills OTHER then to be a stay at home mom, in case my husband would no longer find me desireable when I was older. They all told me NOT to rely on my good looks, b/c those fade in time. Rosa did not listen, and she is a SAHM, and Ed already started lookeing at a stripper who sat on his lap. FOOEY, and Rosa is still young, and much cuter then I am, so I bet 20 years from now, she could even be in this situeation, with 3 grown children. Grandma Leyeh says that about 3/4 of all men cheat, if not physicaly, in their heart, and even President Carter, who she says was president when I was concieved, told the world that he even cheated in his heart. At least he kept his pant’s on, Grandma Leyeh said.

        So all of us in the HIVE have to be on the lookeout for TELL-TAIL sign’s of cheating. Rosa did and she realy gave it to Ed. He is on a VERY short leasch. If I ever find a guy to MARRY, I will follow Rosa’s lead, as my man will NOT be abel to go to bars at night, and will NOT be abel to have busness dinners with cleint’s where there are women who are exotic dancers. Grandma Leyeh warned me about men that want to do the Horizontal Hora with me, and those women will want to do that with my husband. DOUBEL FOOEY on that!

        So I have a whole list of thing’s to look for, if the HIVE is interested. Please keep me in the loop on this, b/c I am NOT the smartest when it come’s to chooseing men. YAY!!!!

        • Anonymous

          I am so sick of this Ellen bullshit. This is my post and when you take the time to post something meaningful about your experiences, and somebody goes out of their way to mock it…

          Stick it where the sun don’t shine.

    • Anon

      Yup, this was the exact pattern of my parents divorce back in the 80s. Dad cheated on mom (multiple times with multiple women, ended up marrying and starting a family with the last one). Mom tried again and again to work on the relationship, but ultimately asked for a divorce. Dad tried to screw us over financially every way he could (including getting the house re-valued at an insane value that had no relation to reality, but mom had to buy him out at that amount since she was desperate to keep me and my brother in our childhood home and school where all our friends were. This was in the 80s so mortgage interest rates were 12%).

      My brother and I never wanted to see our dad, so he took my mom to court for not getting enough time with us (she was encouraging that we spend time with him, but I would run and hide when he came to pick us up for his weekends). Dad (wealthy doctor who married another wealthy doctor) didn’t pay child support so mom had to take him to court (which she couldn’t really afford). Dad didn’t to sh*t to help us out even though we were struggling financially and always on the brink of losing our house. Mom worked two jobs and was always exhausted and stressed, but a rock solid mom.

      Result:

      The good: Very good strong relationship with mom, learned the importance of never ever depending on a man financially, being very responsible with money and used to a frugal lifestyle. I’m financially independent as f*ck.
      The bad: Completely estranged from dad, never met half-siblings (and don’t want to), and I’m 36 years old and still single with a deep rooted mistrust in marriage. Dad basically screwed his first family (us) over completely but didn’t care so much as he got a second chance to start a new family.

      • Anonymous

        I hear you.

        My parent’s terrible marriage and separation and our financial struggles had the same, exact impact on me.

        I will never marry, I am fiercely independent, and financially very frugal.

        It’s so sad.

    • Anonymous

      That sucks. In my parents’ situation, us kids were all adults but it played out similarly except item #3 was just because my dad didn’t want to equitably divide up his assets (there were no custody issues). Honestly, it’s hard to have a relationship with my dad now on a personal level. I lost a lot of respect for him. I’ve always known that he was a selfish person, but to watch him behave so horribly towards his wife of 30+ years and the mother of his children… I just can’t look at him the same way. I have been working on forgiving him, because it will bring me peace, and watching him dote on my kid goes a long way towards that.

      I don’t know if it would be different if I had been a teenager through all of this (which I imagine your friends’ kids are).

      • Anon As Well

        This is pretty much my exact same situation. I always had a decent relationship with my father until my parents split up when I was in my early 20’s. My father behaved so disgracefully during and after the divorce proceedings that I still cannot fully forgive him, 8 years later. My parents go back to court every few years to argue about something else (usually assets that my dad hid from my former SAHM mother), so I keep seeing reminders of his awful behavior and it’s so hard to get over.

        I will hopefully have a baby in the next few years and maybe that will help mend our relationship, but I am honestly hesitant to even have my father around my kids at this point.

    • Anonymous

      No me, but sibling in this mess currently. BIL (caught cheating at work with coworker) wants 50-50 custody of 5 kids <12. He is a workaholic who relies on a SAH wife to accomodate his Very Important "Work" (see above) which he must do all the time / at his whim (so not if it conflicts with Favored Child's sports schedule). Favored Child is now calling his mother a gold digger and lashing out physically at her and younger siblings.

      • Blonde Lawyer

        My state’s family court is big on the 50/50 arrangement. I understand the desire for it but I wonder if it is worse for everyone. Mom and dad stay so intertwined that way. Neither party can move away and they usually end up in the same town to avoid commuting logistics. The kids are constantly going back and forth between houses. The lower income earner usually ends up with less child support in this arrangement. You need two households set up for the children. There’s the issue of trying to get expenses to fall during the other parent’s time. I really do see the good of it too and I’m not looking for the days where dad just got every other weekend. I just don’t know what the “best” solution is.

        • Anonymous

          I think 50-50 could work when each parent is 9-5. Most BigLaw / MD types have 1/5-2 FTE jobs, so doing childcare 50-50 on top of that is a joke. For me, I am lucky to leave in time to pick up my children from afterschool care and feed them dinner and I’m pretty much working .75 of the schedule I should be working. My husband couldn’t get that done 50% of the time and their hair / homework would never be done and they would never read a book / eat something not fast food (and I love him, but he is so awful at this).

        • SC

          +1 to ALL of this. DH’s parents divorced when he was a child. His parents had 50/50 custody. His dad ended up paying more child support than required by the divorce agreement so that he and their mom could maintain two nice, safe, separate homes for the kids. It was really hard on DH, who has organizational problems anyways, and his sister to go back and forth between the homes. And there were always arguments about who had to pay for what–DH’s mom would take him to get a haircut or buy him tennis shoes and then send a bill to his dad! I’m not sure what the best solution is, and I don’t think DH would have preferred every other weekend with one parent or anything. He might have preferred one week on/one week off, but I can see how that would be very difficult for working parents – it seems much easier to say, “I can’t work late Tuesdays and Thursdays” than to say “I can’t stay late every other week.”

    • Two Cents

      I’m a child of divorce but neither parent cheated. They just weren’t compatible and grew apart. Their divorce was initially full of drama but they later became very good friends and remain so today. They get along better now than they did when they were married, and we often go on family vacations together (with them sleeping in separate bedrooms, of course). I remember how much yelling and screaming went on when I was a kid and I’m thrilled with how well it worked out in the end. Not every divorce has a bad ending.

    • SA

      Ugh. I’m 39 and very surprised at the volume of cheating husbands recently in my friend group.

      • Anonattorney

        Do you think your friends saw it coming? Did you see it coming? Were these guys the type that you’d “expect” to cheat? Obviously this would all be anecdata, but as someone a few years behind you, I’m curious why you think it’s happening.

        • SA

          No! None of them. The one I found out about yesterday seems like such a good guy, apparently he had a thing for p0rn that I never would have known about but his wife did.

    • Anon

      I’d like to know who marries these guys knowing what they’ve done to their first wife and children. Like are these women so desperate for a husband they can excuse such horrible behaviors?

      • Anon for obvious reasons

        This is the exact question I’ve always wanted to ask my ex-husband’s new wife. If he can do when he did to me, he’s capable of ANYTHING.

        My divorce was finalized 3 days before I gave birth to our only child. Feel free to use your imagination to put the story together.

        • Anonymous

          I don’t know you, but I have a friend like this. The half-friends-age GF wound up getting pregnant and now she is wife #2 to a guy who has 3 kids <3 (one conceived during the marriage but born after dad walked out, another conceived before the divorce was final with GF). I am not sure he takes his other two kids to his new home now that child-bride is having to figure out a newborn and step-toddlers.

      • Seriously...

        I have had some friends that were the “other woman”…. and I just was repulsed by what I saw and how they deluded themselves. Finally, I distanced myself from these women.

        I honestly can’t believe how self-absorbed people can be in their own search for “happiness”, without thinking about the ramifications of their actions on others.

        Nevermind, then my friends would delude themselves that the man they are having an affair with will somehow change and now become devoted to them when they have shown a history of adultery. Just…. cray cary.

        • Anonymous

          The Dr. Phil quotation on this (am not otherwise a Dr. Phil fan) is:

          A man who marries his former mistress just creates a job opening.

        • Suburban

          Agreed. Fwiw dhs dad did something really reprehensible to his mom -left her after a brain aneurism nearly killed her with two kids under three. He married a younger woman and moved far away. Stepmom was mean and borderline abusive to dh. Dh didn’t talk to his dad for more than a decade. But he has three half brothers so they have reconnected. You know what? Dhs dad and stepmom are so sadly unhappy- their children seem miserable too. I wanted to hate these people but their lives are so sad. Maybe that’s karma, maybe coincidence, or maybe you build a life on shaky ground when you marry a jerk.

          Oh yeah-he was cheating on dhs mom too. Dh was contacted by a surprise half sister-the daughter of a neighbor of his mom and dad. She’s a well adjusted doctor whose mother plead ignorance on her paternity until recently. Dh thinks she was better off for it.

      • SA

        Honestly I think the husbands just lie. Once they found out the truth they are already invested/in love and think it would never happen to them. Not defending just what *I think*

      • SC

        Ha! I have an acquaintance who’s been divorced three times, definitely cheated on his first and third wives, and is now living with his girlfriend who’s the same age as his daughter. And, oh yeah, he has 3 children under 5, with 2 different women. What this 30-year-old woman sees in this 60-year-old man, who is neither attractive nor wealthy and has this much baggage, will always be a mystery to me.

      • Anon As Well

        It’s for this exact reason that I can’t develop anything more than a superficial relationship with my father’s new wife (who’s 20+ years younger than him and met him while he was married to my mom). I’m nice to her, but I don’t agree with her morals or values at all (nor with my father’s, in that case as well).

    • Anon

      My parents went through a two-year long divorce battle (war?) starting when I was 13. My dad cheated on my mom and moved in with a much younger woman. My mom was absolutely broken by it. We still saw my dad regularly and he paid child support and paid for whatever extras we needed/wanted. He let my mom keep the house. My mom had to go back to work as a teacher, but was also severely depressed during this time. She hated my dad and tried to get us to hate him too. It mostly worked with my sister, who was 2 years younger than me. My brother (4 years younger than me) felt very torn and started having nightmares. (poor guy, now thinking back on it. . . ) Like others have said, this left me feeling as though I always need to be able to take care of myself (I am a lawyer and have 3 kids and have always worked full-time, except while on maternity leave) and though I have been married for 10 years I am still paranoid my husband is going to cheat on me. (I realize it is irrational as he has never done anything to make me wonder, but I still worry.)

      My relationship with my father is great. He has always been supportive. My relationship with my mother is more damaged. It is really difficult because I feel badly for what she went though and completley think my father was wrong for cheating on her. However, even over 20 years later, she still lives as though it just happened and is still extremely resentful of the good relationship I have with my dad.

      • Anonymous

        I am really worried that my sister will end up like your mother. Her ongoing divorce has shattered her. SAHM was her chosen career and she was very good at it.

      • Sydney Bristow

        My experience was extremely similar. I didn’t know about the cheating until about 12 years after the divorce, but by that point my relationship with my mom was beyond repair and my relationship with my dad was incredibly strong. It was the opposite immediately following the divorce because my mom tried to pass her hate on to me but I eventually figured that out.

        I know cheating is horrible and I can’t imagine ever heating myself and would be devastated if my husband cheated on me. At the same time though, things really did work out well for my dad and the woman he cheated with who is now my stepmom who I’m also extremely close with. He definitely should have split with my mom first but I’m positive that everyone would have ended up just the same regardless of whether he cheated or just got divorced first.

      • Seriously...

        My heart breaks for your mother.

        I hope someday she can get the therapy she needs.

        • Anonymous

          Me too. Cant imagine a bigger blow than my husband cheating on me and leaving me for the adultress except the thought of my daughter thinking it was essentially okay and I am the bad guy.

          • Anon

            I specifically said I think my father was wrong for cheating on her. However, her actions for the last 20 years aimed at getting us to hate him– including explaining to me in detail what she caught him doing when I was only a teenager, saying her life would have been so much better if she never met him, referring to him “that @sshole”, and so much more–have made my relationship with my mother difficult. I had a good relationship with both of them prior to the divorce and wanted to continue having a good relationship with both of them. I take care of my mother now (she went through cancer treatment) so even though I think our relationship can be difficult I am still kind to her and have been a loyal daughter.

          • Honestly...

            I understand this Anon.

            My parents had a terrible marriage from the beginning. By the time I was 9 there was talk about divorce and they separated off and on for several years. They finally separated for good when all kids were out of college.

            The issues underlying this were complex. My father was mentally ill, and untreated, and there was a lot of financial instability. My mother worked, and was an amazing Mom/homemaker/good career. As children, we were fearful of my father and actually blamed him for everything, although my mother never spoke poorly of him.

            Years later, my parents reunited. Crazy. We were fearful. Things were relatively stable. Then my mother developed cancer, and was critically ill quickly. My father began to have a mental breakdown. During this breakdown he revealed a crazy litany of tales about my mother’s infidelities and horrific things from years ago that a daughter should never know about her parents…. true or not. I am relieved my mother passed away quickly, before understanding my father’s state.

            My father became a bitter, unstable, unhappy man who terrorized me anytime he got me alone with horrible things. Like you, I am caring for my father because he is now critically ill. Fortunately his mental illness is treated. But he will never get past his unhappy marriage with my mother. And now he has made sure that his children will never have any good memories of either of their parents, or happy relationships of their own.

          • Anon for this

            Me too. I have a daughter 3.5 yrs, and my ex is an insane jerk- I won’t even go into how and why- but honestly you may have no idea what your moms have been through. It’s taken years off my life, I live in fear of many things (more financial ruin etc.), my health has suffered immeasurably because I do 100% of everything and pay for it all (working, parenting, etc.). I try to date, it is tough with zero to give someone else because of how this person screwed me when and how he did. My worst nightmare is losing my daughter. Second worse: her being unhappy with ME when I’m the one who has done things beyond my abilities to care for her day in day out night after night while working full time since she was born, alone. He of course feeds her ice cream and all that nonsense. I don’t talk badly about him hardly at all but you can’t imagine the choices your mom might have had to make about that, or how truly difficult it is to lie and say nice things about someone who has been abusive to you mentally, financially, or otherwise. When my daughter asks why we can’t go visit my family at all in other states, I don’t tell her bc her asshole father doesn’t permit us to travel out of state or modify the schedule, and in fact has sued me over 8 times costing me more than several years of income, to accuse me of being a bad mother, illegally traveling with her, and tons of other horribly stressful made up stuff. These motions cost $40k a piece on average, just to defend myself, and I stay up all night preparing documents for them. It is a nightmare. Again you can NOT imagine the toll this can take on a person, and how deeply hard it is to hide and pretend that he is some kind of dad hero. These guys are often the best at being the fun guy. At others’ expense- and they get to be the fun guy, because someone else- mom- is doing everything and has given up her own life for you. Please consider opening your hearts to your moms to those of you who feel harshly towards them. Just by listening you may give her a ray of sunshine that is incredibly overdue. Life can be so heartbreaking- and it isn’t always possible to just bounce back as a a single parent, or keep it perfectly wrapped up- but I could never, never have imagined what it would be like til it happened to me by total surprise. I’m struggling big time, and don’t expect that to change any time soon despite my incredible efforts.

          • Sydney Bristow

            My relationship with my mother has virtually nothing to do with the divorce. I didn’t really make that clear. There were many other really extreme issues that ruined our relationship completely apart from the divorce. My dad was absolutely wrong for cheating on her. My mom was also wrong for trying to get me and my sisters to hate him.

            Fwiw, my dad and stepmom (the woman he cheated with) have been very happily married for 20 years. Honestly it’s like they should have been the ones to be married in the first place. I’d be completely floored if one of them cheated or if they ever divorced.

    • Anonymous

      My parents marriage started falling apart in earnest when I was in middle school and my dad lost his job. My dad cheated on my mom with his coworker when I was in high school, my parents got divorced and my mom (SAHM) was a mess for many years after. Dad married the other woman (who it turns out is actually lovely) and married her when I was in college. They had a daughter. I was generally ok the situation, as f’d up as it was, until he did the SAME THING AGAIN TO MY SISTER’S MOTHER. I couldn’t handle going through it again and have no relationship with him now at all, and am only facebook friends with my sister’s mother. I hear my dad is now married to the new lady. Good luck, lady.

      My #1 goal through my childhood was to get great grades in high school, go to a great college and get great grades, and go to grad school and get great grades so I could get a great job that made $$$$ because I never never never wanted to be financially dependent on a man like my mother was. It also means, as Mr. Anon has pointed out, I’m always looking for the other shoe to drop in our marriage and keeping exit strategies in my back pocket, which is not good for a marriage.

    • AIMS

      My parents divorced but not because my dad cheated and very amicably. I always had a good relationship with both of them. I have two friends who have already divorced now (early 30s). One because she cheated and the other because of other long standing problems, though it wouldn’t surprise me to learn he cheated on her too. Both divorces are/were very nasty. One friend is financially independent and hers turned nasty over custody (he genuinely wants kids in his life and she wants him to just disappear) and the other was a SAHM and he did everything he could to ensure she (and their kids) end up with as little as possible. My own view was always that you have to be able to provide for yourself, but that’s more a byproduct of some issues my mom had with my stepfather after my parents divorced. I’ve always thought that one of the keys to a happy partnership is the ability of either party to walk away at any time.

      Incidentally, speaking of cheating, I was talking to my mom recently and was shocked by how many (3/4?) of her friends/parents of my friends she knew growing up/random relatives all had affairs. Many are still married. I think maybe more people cheat than is commonly realized.

    • OP

      Hey thanks everyone for the stories. I am so upset on behalf of my friend. I know there are amicable divorces – I’m divorced myself but no kids so it was easy – and now married to my second husband.

      I love my husband and I love our son.

      I love men, but it’s hard to trust them sometimes after supporting all my friends through this crap which, no, the signs weren’t there. I liked the husbands. I would never have thought that the landscape would look like this at 50.

      One of my friends’ husbands cheated on her a handful of times, and they tried to work it out until he got the other woman pregnant. My friend asked for a divorce. He moved in with the pregnant mistress. He was amicable with my friend until she met and married someone new, then completely lost his mind (hypocrisy much?) and 10 years later custody/money battles still ongoing. 10 years. And the new wife / former mistress is bat s hit crazy anyway.

      One husband made $2mm selling his company, then claimed he was flat broke when he left his wife for another woman. Friend had to hire a forensic accountant to find the money.

      Another friend’s ex husband settled and gave her the family home, but she had so sell it to pay legal fees because he kept taking her to court over unbelievably minor issues. (Like his daughter trying out for cheerleading without his consent. Mom received a summons.)

      The moms I know try not to bad mouth the dad to the kids but I’m always saying, don’t worry, when they get old enough to understand, they’ll see who he is. But it’s cold comfort now.

      Thanks for the stories. It helps to read that many of you are better for it in at least some ways – independence & drive. That’s a good lesson.

      • Anonymous

        My parents divorced early in life, just married too soon. Mon’s second husband, who was a bipolar a**hole who was a big corporal punishment fan, cheated, left, came back, re-cheated, left again. Keeps trying to get me to talk to him which I will never ever do. Pretty much wrecked my mom, an attorney-lost her job, then the next, and her standard of living went way down. Meanwhile, husband’s parents divorced in their 60s as hubby was a control freak. No one in the family has much to do with him since then.

        I am pretty much the only one in the family who hasn’t divorced-also got two graduate degrees so I would be financially independent. Great career until two corporate job eliminations in my 40s, now own my own business so that never happens again. So grateful that my husband fully supports this career move (emotionally and financially) despite my bringing home a LOT less $. He says a less stressed wife makes it all worthwhile.

      • Anonymous

        So sorry to hear about your friends. I hope they come out of this as happy and healthy as possible under the circumstances and I wish them and their children well.

        I had this happen to me as a child, only in my case it was my mom who cheated on my dad. She married her affair partner after the divorce was final and has continued this pattern three further times. Despite her having custody in the eyes of the court I spent as much time as I could with my dad because my mom was horrible to live with and she only liked having me around when it was convenient for her.

        My dad paid her more child support than what was ordered as well as alimony through all my childhood and her marriages so I would want for nothing and my mom had no reason to complain. I moved out the day I turned 18 and I haven’t seen my mother since except for once when she ambushed me outside my new apartment. I can also count the number of times I have spoken to her on one hand.

        I was fortunate enough to attend college with a scholarship for tuition and books, and I worked as many hours as I could as a waitress so I could afford my rent and other expenses. My mom sure as heck did not save any money for my schooling and my dad paid her so much to keep the peace for my sake that asking him to help would have been a huge burden and I wouldn’t have felt right.

        The funniest part is that mom is so scandalized because my father’s girlfriend is 17 years younger than him. This is his first relationship since the divorce because he was so busy working to provide for me. His girlfriend is lovely, she has her own job and her own money and genuinely loves my dad. I have never seen my dad so happy. My mom actually calls his new girlfriend a gold digger even though she has a career and money of her own and my mom has never had a paying job a day in her life and has been through a bunch of marriages where she uses her husband for money.

        My mom also had the nerve to take my dad to court after I moved out because my dad stopped paying her alimony. He was the only husband that ever did because my mom was capable of working, she just chose not to. My dad was never ordered by the court to pay alimony but did it for 16 years to shut my mom up and so I would be provided for. The judge was so appalled with my mom that he ordered her to pat my dad’s legal fees because he wasted her time. She is hard up now because her latest husband left her and she has no source of income and is about to lose her house. She is seeking another man to look after her.

        The divorce made me realize even as a kid that I wanted to have a safety net and the ability to earn more money. My dad was friends with many other divorced parents, both men and women and I saw cheating on both sides. This and my dad’s work ethic were instrumental in giving me the drive and belief in always having work options and a safety net instead of being financially dependent on someone else.

      • bridget

        Question that I am not asking in a judgemental way: what did the women’s brothers, and your husband, think of the cheating husbands before they cheated?

        At this point in my life, I bluntly share my opinion of girlfriends and potential wives with man friends, and solicit the advice of men regarding my significant others. Most of the time, the same sex is way better at figuring out character.

        • OP

          I had mostly positive thoughts about these guys, as did my husband. In fact we just talked about one of the guys this weekend. My husband kind of misses him, believe it or not, but he says he misses the guy he used to be, not the guy he is now.

          The one who got the girlfriend pregnant was the most seemingly loving, romantic husband of the entire friend group. I guess we didn’t realize he wasn’t planning to limit it to one woman.

    • Anonymous

      My parents got divorced when I was 12 and my sisters were 14 and 11. It seemed like an absolute nightmare at the time, but it really worked out for the best.

      My mom stayed at home and asked for the divorce because she wanted her “freedom.” I think she was cheating on my dad, but my dad still won’t say. I also think she just wanted money (my dad was an i-banker turned hedge fund manager), out of being a parent, and the freedom to do with it what she pleased. My dad got sole custody of us three girls, and my mom got large alimony payments and our condo in an expensive part of Manhattan that had been in my dad’s family for generations (which she sold and moved away). My dad and my sisters and I moved into a much smaller apartment, but our home life ended up being happier with just the three of us.

      I don’t have a relationship with my mom, but I very close relationship with my dad and sisters. Once we were all out of the house, my dad met a terrific woman and they are married. I am close with my step-mom, too.

    • bridget

      Grown child of divorced parents. Have a great relationship with my dad, because he tried to do right by everyone involved.

      It is not always the dad’s fault that divorce happens. I would suggest, as the child of divorced parents, that children will form good relationships with the parents who do not use them as pawns, try to pit them against the other parent, etc. It is not always this way when the kids are young, but they figure it out eventually.

      • Anonymous

        Same here. My parents divorced when I was in middle school – not the result of an affair, my dad was a bit of a workaholic and I think my mom was just fed up that he wasn’t really present in her life. My mom had stopped working after I was born, so her professional certification had lapsed. She ended up getting another degree in education and teaching in our school district because she needed her schedule to roughly match ours, plus re-certifying would have been almost as much work because the technology had changed so much.

        I’m pretty sure my dad paid for her education degree. I wouldn’t say it was an amicable divorce, but they kept the kids out of it and tried to make sure our lifestyle didn’t radically change. My – and my siblings’ – relationship with my dad is good; we have never been super close because he always worked shifts (ER doctor) and wasn’t around a lot, plus he’s just not a very personable person. He tries, though, and I love him for that. I don’t blame either of them; it’s a perfect example of people who didn’t see eye to eye on their roles in a relationship and what they wanted out of life, and couldn’t find a way to reconcile it. I actually saw more of my dad after the divorce. Or at least it felt that way, because we got uninterrupted time one evening per week and every other weekend.

        • Sad anon

          I posted a few weekends ago that my husband wants to move out. We have a 18 month old.

          Just reading these posts make me sad, but feel less alone.

          I hope everything will be ok for my daughter. I hope I can be strong and always take the high road.

          • Calico

            Stay strong, Sad Anon! My parents divorced when I was three and I don’t remember any of it. Separate homes was my norm. Both parents did their best not to bad mouth each other. As an adult I can understand more about who was at fault, which in the end, was both of them. I have a wonderful relationship with my stepmother and I’m grateful she’s been in my life. I have a strong relationship with both mom and dad. It can turn out well for all!

          • Stormtrooper

            My ex husband decided he wanted a divorce when our bany was 14 months old. He moved out and virtually all responsibility fell on me. The first six months were brutal. Brutal. But after that everything got so much better. I realized it was actually less work having him around and I was happier. You’ll get through it

    • Lo

      Hi Ladies –

      So I read all your posts about divorce. This is something I have struggled with a whole lot…
      My parents had a nasty divorce almost 20 years ago, and they still hate and bad mouth each other like they just split up yesterday. Mother was a SAHM mom and dad cheated on her with his business partner. They are married now and have 2 daughters. Dad tries to have a relationship with me, not any of my other siblings, because i am the oldest and obvious favorite, (which i despise, think that is poor parenting to single out a child, but I have little to no interest in a relationship with his because when they were married he made six figures, we were very wealthy, he forced mother to give up her law career to be a SAHM… and when they divorced, he played dirty, got out of paying alimony, avoided child support for years, went years without talking to us kids, never paid a dime of my tuition, so I have thousands in debt, was missing my whole middle school and high school life and was generally always cruel to my mom… she’s no angel and like other women feels marrying him was the worst decision of her life. hates him with ever fiber of her being and she never remarried or was able to pick back up on her law career… met him young, didn’t take the bar etc…

      Am I wrong for 2 things:

      1. Not wanting a relationship with my dad at this point? (being a grown woman, married and not emotionally interested in a relationship with a parent I don’t feel I know and don’t want to know based on his character?

      2. I love DH with every fiber of my being but like many of you that nasty divorce taught me how to be frugal, financially independent and never ever ever be a SAHM… (NOT SHADE, just not for me), I’d love to, but my mistrust would never allow.

      3. I work full time but like another lady stated, I want an advanced degree like an MBA to future “secure” my job opportunities scope… I work full time though, Anyone know a LEGIT online program to receive this… like personally or can honestly say one is legit?? I’ve seen some but we all know some are regionally accredited but still suck.

      TIA!!!!! LOVE YOU LADIES.

      • Anon for this

        I totally support you not wanting a relationship with the dad who was a jerk. Person here who is struggling financially (though I work full time and always have) partly due to jerko ex who hid assets and doesn’t give us anything to help despite a well-off family. I don’t really understand it, why they don’t want the kid growing up more comfortably and with less stress, but they are content to put it all on me- and the stress is incredibly hard day in day out. So to people who leave and are jerks- why should you get to have loving close relationships? You don’t.

  4. Anonymous

    Bottega Veneta – does anyone have experience with how hardy their bags are? I want to buy one if their small bags, but I tend to be rough on my stuff… e.g., I routinely stuff my small bags into my work tote.

    Worried that I’ll kill the bag if it isn’t durable… Can anyone share their experience?

    • Cat

      As beautiful as the leather is — if you’re eyeing one of the small bags in the classic woven pattern, I’d be wary. Lots of little edges to eventually catch and fray if your usual routine involves cramming a clutch into an overflowing tote.

      • Anonymous

        Thanks… That’s why I asked. I thought it could go either way with the woven pattern, but it sounds like you’ve had issues with it catching.

        • Anonymous

          I haven’t had any issues with my two BV bags, but I’m generally pretty careful with my things.

    • Anonymous

      I own 2-3 BV hobos. They are very durable and get better with age. Just pick a medium-dark colour.

      • Anonymous

        Thanks – I think I might pick up one of the small bags… It has just want I want as far as size, features (all chain strap, card holder), and style.

        Good to hear they hold up!

  5. Katie M

    Shopping advice needed – My DH and I are going to Asia during the hot season and we are trying to do it “backpack” style by not bringing a traditional suitcase, but instead using a backpack and bringing only the essentials. Definitely planning on doing laundry/washing clothes in hotel sinks. I’ve got most of the clothing figured out but I’m having trouble finding the right bra to bring. I’m a c-cup so I do need support, but I want something that is really light weight and breathable, and will hopefully dry quickly. I’d prefer a racer-back style so I don’t have to worry about bra straps falling. I don’t need a true sports bra as the main activity will just be tons of walking.

    Thoughts or suggestions?

    • K120

      For trips like that I like to wear yoga bras. They provide enough support but are still super comfortable. As a bonus I find they are easy to pack.

    • Anon

      While sports bra may seem logical, they are the slowest drying bras I own. The quickest drying bras are unlined stretch lace. If you are ok with the potential for headlights (I have made peace with it – people have nipples, get over it) I think that’s the way to go. You can find them in racerback style. I think Wacoal makes one

      • Anon

        Just a caveat to this: while in certain parts of the world having “headlights” is no big deal, Asia is not one of them. Especially if you are traveling around parts of Southeast Asia it could bring unwanted attention.

    • Anonymous

      We will be doing the same type of trip in Southern Spain/Morocco this spring, traveling with backpacks to keep things light, washing in sinks as we go. I’m also a C cup and just picked up two of these: http://www.jcpenney.com/hanes-smooth-unlined-wireless-bra-hu04/prod.jump?ppId=pp5005690944

      After wearing molded cups so long it is strange to be a little ‘freer’, as they don’t have the support of cups, or sports bras. But they have enough support to look nice and be comfortable, and should hang dry in a reasonable time!

    • Anonymous

      I lived in SE Asia for a few years. Be careful on air drying if you are staying somewhere without strong AC/sun. With the humidity, things sometimes just don’t dry. I hung up a T-shirt once in my bathroom… and it never dried (I ended up throwing it out after a month). So, keep in mind that hand washing in some hotels may not work as well if they have a less modern AC system, or do not have a line to dry in the sun.

      I also just would wear whatever bra I wanted, often lined and always with cups. I never found breathability to be an issue.

      I’d suggest bring whatever bra you want, but be prepared to dry with a blow dryer to speed things up.

    • Beth

      Hi! When I backpacked in Asia last year, we sent our laundry out. In Vietnam, even hostels had laundry service for around $2.50-$4 for everything in my backpack. I’d buy a few cheaper bras, or a few at the end of their useful life that you won’t be upset putting through a dryer. We ran into the same problems discussed above that without a dryer or a drying room with A/C, our clothes never would have dried.

  6. TBK

    A Chinese-American friend is throwing a new year’s party this weekend. I’d like to bring a hostess gift. Is there anything traditional I should bring (or anything I definitely should not bring)?

    • BB

      No clocks. No knives. Preferably also nothing black or white. Red-colored things are generally good.

    • Brunchaholic

      You could bring oranges/tangerines! Great symbol of good luck for the new year, sweet and simple!

    • Anon100

      Lucky fruits like a box of oranges, Asian pears, or apples are traditional gifts that everyone can enjoy.

    • Anon

      Peanuts are traditional – I’ve even seen chocolate candies wrapped in gold foil to look like a peanut. That would be perfect. It is year of the monkey so something symbolizing that would be nice. A small kumquat tree would also be a nice hostess gift. Gong xi fa cai!

    • Anonymous

      Oranges (even number but not 4, 8 is best). Abalone. Chocs wrapped in gold, like choc coins.

  7. APC

    Ugh – my Amazon account got hacked last night. I worked it all out with Amazon and won’t be charged, and changed all PWs and everything, but what a rough start to my day. Got some good coffee and trying to use that ritual of restarting my day, but finding it hard to jump on the work bandwagon at this point. blahhhh is it 6pm yet?

    • Anonymous

      Wow-thanks for the heads up to look out for this. Hadn’t heard it could happen.

  8. SD attorney

    Firstly I would like to say that I love reading here. I don’t work with anyone else who is an attorney or any professional women in any other field, so I enjoy reading the questions and posts on this s i t e.

    Secondly I just wanted to ask if there is anyone here who isn’t located in a populous place like New York, San Francisco or D.C? I have always lived in South Dakota and I went to law school here. I live in a small town and I handle real estate and insurance law matters. It’s not very glamorous or exciting and I probably make less in a year than some of the Biglaw bonuses that I always hear about, but I am happy because my job is quiet and not stressful, it is rewarding to be a part of the process to help people who are buying a home and I get to be near my family. I know I can’t be the only one here who doesn’t live in a big city.

    • SD attorney

      (I didn’t mean to imply that there is anything wrong with living or working in the areas I mentioned or any other big city. I only asked because I am curious if there are any other non big city r e t t e s like me.)

    • Anon

      I live in a medium size city in the Southwest and really enjoy life here as well. I am a lawyer for our state government.

    • Anonymous

      East Coast BigLaw partner here, but I have family in South Dakota and I love visiting! Sioux Falls is so pretty and the people there are SO friendly! I love that kids can drive ATVs on streets! And y’all are fireworks-friendly!

      That said, I have never been there in winter. But when I go there, I can totally relax and breathe and that is very, very important.

    • LF

      I live in Vermont and find the practice of law to be very reasonable here. My firm is considered more “intense” than most around here – and yet, as an associate, I still manage to take an odd Friday afternoon off here or there to go snowboarding.

    • Killer Kitten Heels

      I’m in the outer-ring suburbs of NYC, and SD, your life sounds awesome to me. I’d relocate to a smaller place in a heartbeat, but H’s career is one of those “only in NY or LA” kind of industries, and our families are in NY, so here we are.

      Having worked in NYC Biglaw (I don’t anymore), the day-to-day isn’t really as glamorous or exciting, at least to me, as a lot of the people who are in it make it out to be – like, yes, my bonuses were insane, but also I was at or commuting to/from work for at least 15 hours every day and getting red-exclamation-point emails on Sunday nights and having my weekends ruined with 7:30am Saturday morning phone calls and honestly? The money was no comfort at all to me when my boss seemed to be trying to set the Guiness world record for how many days in a row he could make his associates work.

      To be clear, I’m not trying to knock people who genuinely enjoy that lifestyle, just reaffirming for any small(er) town r e t t e s that for some of us, “big city” living isn’t all fancy c*cktails and Burberry trench coats. Mostly, it’s really high property taxes (or rent) and a constant struggle to find a good parking spot. :-)

      • Suburban

        Hello fellow outer-ring ny suburbanite! My husband also can’t leave NYC due to work (and has a killer commute). I don’t think I could move back to the city for anything. The fancier suburbs (like the one I work in, 10 minutes from home) also make me nervous. I love our small (home) town turned suburb. There’s a sense of community and we can walk to lots of fun things- like the ice cream store my family owns! Op, I’m sure you’re not missing anything.

        • Killer Kitten Heels

          You’re so lucky to be in a walkable place! We’re in the awkward distance where we’re just far enough away from the city to not really have sidewalks or walkability, but still close enough to it that we deal with some of the standard spillover issues – population density, no small-town vibe, etc. I’d love to move either further away or closer in, but H’s job ensures that further away is not possible, and property taxes and prices ensure that closer in is similarly not possible!

          • Suburban

            I so hear you on those compromises. We are lucky and we love it here. But there’s trade-offs, it’s not for everyone: the schools aren’t great (decent but not award winning) and the yards are smaller (hello neighbors), our house is 1oo years old (so much charm, so little closet space). Its not paricularly prestigious. Lots of friends say they wish they could live here and when I point out they can, they admit they really don’t want to deal with these hassles. I totally get it.

    • SW

      Small town here too – population ~45,000. I work at a well-respected firm that is considered medium to large for the area but would definitely be considered small in other places. I grew up in a very large city and attended college in another currently very popular city that recently went through enormous growth. I moved to be closer to extended family, and it has been the best decision I ever made. I love my current hometown and the different but exciting opportunities it offers!

      • Anonymous

        I’m chuckling as the description of 45,000 as “small town”. Yes, small than LA/NYC and other cities. But then I’m a former resident of towns of 5,000 when that was the “big” town in the area.

        • SD Lawyer

          For me a town with 5000 would feel like the big city. I live and practice in an area that I don’t think has that many people in all the towns put together.

          Our capital has a population of less than 15,000. The city where I attended law school has a population of roughly 10,000. These feel huge to me whenever I visit them and our largest city has less than 170,000 people and is the biggest city that I have ever visited. I can’t even imagine how big places like New York or D.C. are.

        • X

          My family lived for 7 years (from when I was 5 ’til when I was 12) in a town with a population of 200 in Western Mass. We had an hour bus ride down a mountain to school…

        • SW

          Maybe “small state” is a better description. I live in either the largest or second-largest city in my state, so I spend a lot of time in towns with pop. 5,000 or much, much less. Population decline is a significant state-wide struggle, but I love the sense of community that still exists.

    • emeralds

      I live in a Southern state capital that is a good-sized city, but nowhere near DC/Bay Area/etc. I have zero desire to ever live in any of those places–I like the quality of life, minimal traffic, slower pace, low cost, and work/life balance where I am! I was in a ~80,000-person small city before this, and a sub-10,000 town before that. I’d take all of them in a heartbeat over NYC and its brethren.

    • lucy stone

      I live in a small community in Wisconsin that you may have recently seen on Netflix. Born and raised in the suburbs of a larger city, went to school in Minneapolis, now I’m living la vida small town.

      • ANP

        This is super stalker-y of me but I’ve been reading for years and have long surmised that I live pretty close to you (between your community and the state line). Any other ‘Sconnie r e t t e s out there?

    • Anonymous

      I live in the west in a city with about 250,000 people. This site is fantastic because shopping options are extremely limited in my area so I order most of my work clothes online. I regularly work long hours, but my schedule is fairly flexible and I’m well paid for the region. I love knowing most of the attorneys and judges in my practice area, not dealing with traffic or high prices, and having easy access to outdoor activities.

    • Lyssa

      Mid-sized city in the Southeast. While there are certainly things that sound appealing about living in the major cities, I am constantly marveling over the fact that I seem to have a much, much higher standard of living than the norm for those folks, despite bringing in less money.

    • CKB

      I live in a big city but just wanted to pop on and say we are taking our 3 boys on a big road trip this summer from Calgary to Rapid City because I’ve always wanted to see Mount Rushmore. I’ve heard SD is beautiful & im started to get excited and get some real planning done. Any tips besides avoiding the first 2 weeks in August due to the Sturgis motorcycle rally? Boys are 10-16 and we all love hiking.

      • Anonymous

        I am planning to road trip from Sioux Falls to Mount Rushmore (and go by the Corn Palace) this summer. 2 minivans, 5 kids, 2 adults. Will be awesome and or a hot mess. July?

        Advice from the SD lady?

      • Anonymous

        It’s beautiful. Do you know where you’re staying? If camping or RV-ing Custer State Park is the best. Get reservations early. If you are staying somewhere else, still go to Custer and some of the nearby caves. Crazy Horse was interesting, but I found it pretty dilapidated and depressing too. I guess I’m glad we checked it out and learned the story though.

      • Sydney Bristow

        If you can, try to get to Rushmore right when it opens. There is hardly a crowd at all that early.

        South Dakota was awesome. I also really liked the Wind Caves. And if you are passing by, stop and go through Theodore Roosevelt National Park in North Dakota too. It is in 2 sections and they were very different but both beautiful.

        • Mpls

          TR Nat’l Park is one of my favorite. If you get that far, also consider visiting Medora, ND. It’s a little old-timey town founded by some random French vicomte who came out to visit.

          Also, I think the ND badlands are prettier than the SD ones. The ND area is also known as the Painted Badlands because the exposed layers are multicolored. I may be biased, from many (many) years of driving I-94 through ND.

      • SD Lawyer

        If you love hiking I recommend visiting the state parks such as Badlands State Park or Custer State Park. Crazy Horse Memorial and the Mammoth Site are interesting too. If your boys are interested in music the National Music Museum in Vermillion would be a place to consider stopping. You are right about planning to avoid the Sturgis rally, but no matter when you are visiting be sure to book any hotels, RV areas or other accommodations as early as possible because depending on the time of year they can fill up pretty quickly. Hope you enjoy your trip!

    • Anonymous

      I grew up in the Midwest and currently live in Indiana in a town of about 100,000 people. I also make less in a year than some Big Law bonuses but the cost of living here is very low, and it is a great place to live.

      • 'Non

        I love the Indy metro area – I’m on the East Coast but would die to live in Carmel!

    • Anonymous Atty

      I’m an attorney practicing in a VERY small town in Minnesota. There are literally 2 1/2 lawyers in my office. My practice is mostly real estate, estate planning, municipal work, and some litigation. I went to a great school in a big city, but was SO HAPPY to get out when I graduated a few years ago. You’re right that’s it not glamorous… but my job is not stressful, and every day when I go home (at 4 or 5) and sit on my deck by the lake, it’s like being on vacation. I don’t make a Biglaw salary, but with our seriously low COL, I have (I think) a better qualify of life than most of my classmates who went to bigger firms. Wouldn’t trade it for the world!

      • Anonymous Atty

        It occurs to me that there are not *literally* 2 1/2 lawyers in my office. Insert obligatory Archer joke here.

    • MU JD

      It occurs to me that there are not *literally* 2 1/2 lawyers in my office. Insert obligatory Archer joke here.

      • Miss Mollie

        MU JD, are you a Marquette University grad? I am a MU grad myself, currently working in Milwaukee in state government.

    • Elsbeth

      I was an attorney in South Dakota for several years! West River. Now I live in semi-rural southern Calufornia, working in government. Definitely a small town.

  9. Alarm Clock

    Can anyone recommend a good digital alarm clock? I don’t need anything fancy, the only real criteria are that the alarm not be too loud (my current clock wakes the kids in the other room whenever it goes off) and that it not emit too much light. Also, while I would love a clock that wakes up to light my husband (who wakes up later than I do) would not be happy with that option.

    Failing any recommendations, any suggestions where to go to buy an alarm clock that I can actually test the alarm? Every place I’ve been seems to have them all boxed up and I really don’t want to buy and return a bunch.

    • SA

      My fitbit has a silent alarm that vibrates on my wrist to wake me up. I wish my husband would use his in this fashion as he is the first to get up

    • Anonymous

      Hello. It’s me. I’ve been wondering if after all these years you’ve realized its 2016. Hello. Hello from the bedside.

      -xoxo, your phone.

      • Anonymous

        Ha, I knew someone would suggest that. Unfortunately, if I don’t leave my phone in my purse I inevitably forget to take it with me during the day, which would be causing a much bigger problem than it solved.

      • lost academic

        Ha, I knew someone would suggest that. Unfortunately, if I don’t leave my phone in my purse I inevitably forget to take it with me during the day, which would be causing a much bigger problem than it solved.

      • Baconpancakes

        This could’ve been too snarky but the Adele lyrics made it just hilarious. Well done.

    • Anon

      Look for a clock radio. If you set it to wake to radio (and an inoffensive radio station) you can adjust the volume to very low. My husband does this – I get up 1/2 hour later. Some have a dimmer for the brightness too.

      And Anonymous, I laughed out loud at the song.

    • ALX emily

      I’ve had the Sangean RCR-5 clock radio (available on amazon) for several years after looking for one that wasn’t too bright but also reasonably readable for me when I don’t have my contacts in. It’s not super intuitive to set it, but once you learn that, I’ve been really happy with it!

  10. Randi

    Looking for book recommendations. All genres appreciated. Preferably in the 200-300 page range though. Thanks.

    • jwalk

      The Martian. I’m not at all into science (French major in college, now work in business) but LOVED the book and flew through it.

      • Anonymous

        SO GOOD! (I’m also a French major, though I now practice law.) I listened to it on audiobook during a 12 hour drive and it occupied me the entire time. The book is significantly better than the movie.

      • 2 Cents

        I loved The Martian too. He explains the science in a way that a nonscientist can understand, plus it’s funny. (The movie was pretty good too.)

    • Killer Kitten Heels

      Edinburgh by Alexander Chee! It’s an older book, but it’s been on my mind because I’m reading his new book (Queen of the Night, it’s amazing and epic but it’s over 500 pages).

      • Killer Kitten Heels

        Also, anything by Jon Ronson – it’s all non-fiction, but everything he writes is excellent.

    • blue

      Daughters of the Samurai — very engrossing, even though I didn’t think it was a topic I would care about

    • Coco

      Beautiful ruins
      What Alice forgot
      Where’d you go Bernadette
      The orphan train
      The goldfinch
      Between the world and me

      • CKB

        I loved where’d you go Bernadette.

        I’ve also enjoyed any of Rainbow Rowell’s books I’ve read.

        • Randi

          Thanks to both of you for the Bernadette recommendation, it’s hilarious and perfect because I just came back from vacation. Not Antarctica but Iceland.

    • KateMiddletown

      Crazy Rich Asians. Waiting on my library hold for China Rich Girlfriend, the follow-up. SO good.

      • KinCA

        +1 to this. It’s an easy read (and have the tissues ready), but it’s an important book if you’re married/in a serious relationship. It made me start a “sweet things” list about my husband on my phone.

        Bel Canto by Ann Patchett is another good read, as is Dead Wake by Erik Larssen.

    • 2 Cents

      I just started reading The Man in the High Castle by Phillip K. Dick. It’s good so far.

      Longer than 300 pages, but I’ve enjoyed Robert Galbraith’s (aka J.K. Rowling) Cormoran Strike mysteries. The first one is The Cuckoo’s Calling.

    • 2 Cents

      And just remembered: Will Thomas, Some Danger Involved. His detective is a Sherlock Holmes-like man with a young Welsh assistant. I find them highly entertaining.

    • Anonymous

      If you’re looking for some zen reading,I’d recommend Tao of Pooh. Certainly, on appearance it looks like a children’s book, but really it’s a very good read and only has gotten positive reviews from coworkers at big firm as well. It reminds us, to take a step back and remember what’s important in life beyond the hustle.

  11. Snick

    My birthday is coming up and the family (spouse & kids) is asking for gift ideas. Drawing a blank. What do I want?

  12. BB

    Is it okay to respond to a recruiter’s message about a potential role even though I am pretty sure I don’t want to switch jobs? I’m curious about the role and how they picked my name.

  13. Stephanie

    I have a business school interview in the Midwest (not Kellogg, haha). It’s business professional, and since I had bariatric surgery four months ago, I’ve lost 60 pounds, and not much fits anymore. I don’t really want to spend hundreds on a new suit, since I won’t be able to wear it in a couple months.

    Are dresses & blazers considered business professional? I have a lovely, conservative houndstooth sheath dress, and I can borrow a black blazer from my roommate. Will that, paired with conservative jewelry, pantyhose, and black pumps work?

    • Randi

      I think that’s fine. When I interviewed, at a regionally and state ranked program, I think I did wear a suit, I was lucky cause it fit at the time but I had to skip hose because I bought the wrong type and it didn’t look right.(I was admitted-not that my wardrobe choice and a positive or negative effect).

      I’m also in Florida, so hose is just not a major thing here,

      Good luck!

  14. Anonymous

    Can anyone comment on pros/cons of living in Nashville TN as a recent college graduate (healthcare)?

    • Tri Stars

      Love Nashville! I have to move away this summer and I’m so sad about it.

      Pros:
      Super affordable
      Music everywhere
      New restaurants opening all the time
      Lots of young people (all of my friends join kickball when they move here)

      Cons:
      CONSTRUCTION ALL DAY EVERY DAY. Seriously, they start at 6am.

  15. Wedding dress

    How much did your wedding dress cost?

    I just set up my first appointment but, given that they just told me that dresses START at $2500, i am thinking of cancelling. I have no frame of reference but that seems like a lot.

    • Anonymous

      My wedding dress cost $800 in NYC. (I’m now divorced, so maybe spending more on a dress would have been good luck? HA kidding.)

    • Stephanie

      That is a lot. My dress was ~$1200 at Alfred Angelo. My best friend paid $1600 for a Maggie Sottero. We were at the higher end at our bridal salons, too. There are plenty of wonderful designers who make dresses for less than 2k.

    • Anonymous

      $5k for my dress.

      Where are you located? There are some great stores that sell once-worn dresses at discounted prices. If you’re near Alexandria, VA, check out Fabulous Frocks.

      • Anonymous

        Cosign Fabulous Frocks (they’re also online!!) – I have been there twice with friends and they are just the greatest. I love the staff and also the concept.

      • HSAL

        You may not see this, but which style did you get? I got the Verona and I loved it.

    • Killer Kitten Heels

      Got my dress 3 years ago, it was around $1200 at a suburban bridal boutique outside of NYC. I also had a super-strong “runner up” dress that was like $550 at the same store. I certainly wouldn’t judge anyone for spending more than I did, but if you’re at all uneasy about that $2500 starting price point, don’t believe the store’s hype about “this is just what a good dress costs,” and look for somewhere else with a bigger range of prices for your shopping needs.

      • NYCpg

        Same here! I’m in Manhattan but dress shopped in NJ (no sales tax on clothing!) and ended up at a cute boutique where I paid $1200 which included free alterations. Tons of my friends wanted to do Kleinfeld’s and a lot of the other NYC boutiques that start at $2500 if not higher, and I do have quite a number of friends who wore $5000+ dresses, but it wasn’t for me – even though I could have afforded it.

    • Anon

      $750 for my dress in the Midwest, but I know a lot of people that paid a lot more (like in the $2500-$5000 range). I am just one of those people who could never pay that much for a dress I wear one day, but if the dress is a priority for you and you can afford it, there’s nothing wrong with throwing your money there.

    • Scarlett

      2K, custom made at a local bridal salon in San Francisco. It was actually less than a lot of dresses at other bridal salons, but I couldn’t find anything off the rack I liked at even pretty expensive price points (e.g. less than that but more than I’ve ever spent on a dress). Check out Once Wed used dresses once you know what looks good on you – there’s a lot on there at better prices. BHLDN also has a lot of pretty things (I ordered and sent back tons from there).

        • Scarlett

          OH that’s gorgeous! Wish it had been around when I was looking. I had a hard time just because I can’t do strapless and so many things were strapless when I was looking. I thought the BHLDN quality was really great, so you might want to just start there & see if it works for you. They had a great return policy & shipped the dresses well – e.g. they were “stuffed” with tissue and not just thrown in a box like a lot of online things tend to be. Jcrew also has a more affordable wedding line & I tried one from there too, but it just didn’t work for me style-wise, but again, the quality was nice (much better than their clothes). I’d also recommend looking early. I didn’t have a lot of time – we eloped and had a really short engagement (about 4 months total), so that drove me into a higher priced dress than I otherwise would have chosen.

          • Anonymous

            Thanks for the insight! I also don’t want a strapless dress or a plunging neckline, and BHLDN seemed to have a few good options. We’re getting married in June, so I’m also aiming for something needing minimal alterations (I fit into “standard retail” sizes without alterations 99% of the time, but I understand wedding dresses are a whole other animal!).

      • Anonymous

        Was your dress from Amy Kuschel? That’s where I got mine. I spent about $1800 10 years ago, and justified it because I spend $250 on alterations for each of my suits, and figured that the cost of an off-the-rack plus wedding dress alterations (which I assumed were more than regular clothes alterations) would almost equal the cost of a custom dress that fit me perfectly.

        • Scarlett

          Yes it was! I actually loved the experience there, I just still gag a little at how much I spent!

    • SC

      My dress was about $8000, but my mom paid for it, not me. If you don’t want to spend $2500 or more, look elsewhere, and I’m sure you’ll find a gorgeous dress.

    • JP

      Mine was $1250, Boston suburbs (Platinum Bridal Boutique in Souhborough, highly recommend), can’t remember the brand. But it is a really nice salon and there were tons of dresses in my price range (I wanted to spend $2000 for everything including accessories and alterations, and it came in way below that).

    • Anonymous

      My wedding dress cost a little less than $1000 at a higher end salon in my Midwestern (non-Chicago) hometown. It’s fine if you want to spend $2500 or more, but don’t buy into the wedding hype machine that a beautiful gown has to cost that much.

    • KinCA

      Mine was a little under $2k (it was part of a lower-priced “spin-off” line from a designer boutique in Beverly Hills); it worked out to be $2,300 or so with alterations.

      I didn’t have a firm budget in mind when I was dress shopping and found dresses I really liked for $1k and dresses I really liked for $5k+.

    • Anonymama

      I spent $400. Unless you have a huge budget or a specific dress you know you want, I’d advise going somewhere with dresses that are more in the ballpark of what you expected to spend, and go from there if you can’t find anything you like. Rather than falling in love with a $5000 dress when you really don’t want to spend that much.

    • Spirograph

      $500, plus another couple hundred for alterations/cleaning. It was a sample.

    • Anonymous

      $750; I got it on rue la la though and had to spend $300 on alterations because I didn’t know to size down two sizes for wedding dresses. Oops.

      If you think the “start at” price is too high, I’d skip the appointment. There may only be a couple dresses at that level, and they are likely not to be the ones that catch your eye. If the same dresses were the expensive ones at a less expensive store, they’d likely look much nicer.

    • Anonymous

      I wore my mother’s wedding dress. Paid to have the sleeves altered. I still have it. Maybe you could borrow it? Wedding dresses are a big expense for one day’s wear.

    • Lo

      Mine was $4K, got it at a very high end boutique and honestly…… I feel like an idiot for spending so much on something that is STILL in my closet and I have had no luck selling.. I wore it for 6 hours max and while it was gorgeous, a cost effective dress for ME would’ve been smarter…..

      I’d say depending on your style, go with one from BHLDN, Alfred Angelo, Davids Bridal, etc. NO ONE will ever know where you got it because these places seriously have some GORGEOUS gowns and you could never tell the price. its about how you have it altered to your body and how you accessorize and honestly above else its about your DH and you :)

      If i could do it over I’d put that $4k to a crazy exotic honeymoon.

      My 2 cents;)

      • Blonde Lawyer

        Check out the DaVinci line. I saw my dress in a magazine and thought it would be super expensive. Turned out to be a low cost line. The dress was exactly what I was looking for, fit perfect and I think it was $350. This was 10 years ago.

    • Wedding dress

      Thanks everyone for weighing in! Appointment cancelled :) will look for places in line with my expectations

    • Anonymous

      $800 or so plus tailoring costs. It was off-white and marketed as a mother-of-the-bride dress, but it was gorgeous and flattering and totally my style (not puffy or blingy or lacy or flowery, shoulders, no train…). Purchased in a medium-sized Midwest city in 2011. I would look for white dresses/evening gowns, not necessarily bridal gowns, unless you need something really classic.

    • Sydney Bristow

      $350 for the dress and $250 for alterations. I had budgeted $1000 so I was pleasantly surprised. I got it at David’s Bridal in NYC. It was absolutely perfect and I’d pick the same one again in a heartbeat.

      I’d figure out what your overall wedding budget is and then pick a dress budget number that fits in with that.

    • 2 Cents

      David’s Bridal, 2010, $349 (with alterations, which was just making a bustle).

      A friend who got married in 2009 paid $499 for her David’s Bridal dress (it was originally $1,000).

      Another friend paid $1,000 for her dress, from a NYC wedding boutique (don’t know the name, sorry).

    • lawsuited

      $300, taxes and alterations in. I appliquéd some lace from my grandmother’s wedding dress onto my dress to make it more special.

  16. SoCalAtty

    Hi there ‘r e t t e s!
    I’m back!! Back from maternity leave, and the baby is now 5.5 months. Still at the same in-house place, things got a little weird here last year with CEO and GC leaving, but things are now looking up with them bringing in a new GC. So that’s exciting. I just finished up my third year here, which is a record for me.

    Being a mom is exhausting, but I’m surviving. Eventually I’ll sleep again. They aren’t this little forever. Good to “see” everyone here again!

    • Another anonymous judge

      Welcome back! It is lovely to think of you rocking motherhood and a legal career in SoCal. Congratulations!

  17. future law student

    Question for anyone here who has a law degree; How much do law school rankings really mean? I realize there is a difference between a school like Harvard and a school that was ranked 100th overall, but how much does of a difference does it make on terms of opportunities after graduation? I’m the first in my family to attend college and I don’t know anyone in real life who has gone to law school. I’m going to have to take finances and whether or not I get accepted of course, and I will speaking with prelate and academic advisors but if anyone here has any advice or wouldn’t mind sharing what rank their school was and what opportunities it gave them I would really appreciate it.

    • future law student

      So many typos! I posted this using my new tablet and I’m not used to the keyboard and autocorrect.

      My post should read “how much of a difference does it make in terms of opportunities after graduation?” and I meant “pre-law” advisor not “prelate” advisor. Also I will be taking finances into account. I swear I know how to spell in real life.

    • Harvard Law Anon

      I went to Harvard Law, and it definitely makes a difference – doors are open to me that wouldn’t be open to just any law student, and I get treated better than other, otherwise-similarly-qualified attorneys at my level because of the prestige of my degree (which is bullish!t, because I’m not any better of an attorney, but it’s reality for me).

      My experience is that outside of the top 8 or so schools (some people will say Top 14, but those people are saying that because they went to Georgetown), rankings don’t matter *all* that much, except within your target market. So, for example, if you know you want to work in NYC, and you’re not NYU/Columbia material, focus on the best school you can get into IN NYC – you’re better off going to, say, St. John’s or Fordham than you are going to, say, the College of William and Mary, even though William & Mary is technically the better-ranked school, because the local schools have stronger alumni networks and stronger name recognition within NYC. This is especially true if you’re weighing non-local-higher-ranked school against local-school-with-scholarship. In short, unless it’s a truly tip-top ranking school, do not waste your time going to a law school in a geographic area other than the one where you want to practice.

      Also, outside of the top schools, you should NEVER pay full price for law school – unless you perform extraordinarily well as a 1L, there’s a high probability your early jobs from anywhere other than the top schools won’t pay enough to justify $170K+ in loans. If the school is not (a) in the top 8ish; and/or (b) the highest-ranked law school in the geographic area where you want to practice, don’t pay full price.

      • Anonymous

        Ha! Such georgetown snark. You see why Harvard grads get their reputation :) GULC doesn’t have the name of harvard but it has opened way more doors to me than a lower ranked school.

    • AnonAttorney

      Outside a small handful of schools, my experience is that schools are highly regional. Also, in general, as you move down the rankings, the school has a smaller and smaller reach. So unless you’re going to a very top school (like Harvard), I’d say to go where you want to live. I knew I wanted to stay in the state where I grew up, so I went to the local law school, even though it’s a third-tier school. And I ended up with a job at the best firm in my mid-sized city. If I’d wanted to move to somewhere like NYC, there’s no way I would have gotten a job at a top firm.

      You’re right there’s a big difference between Harvard and a second- or third-tier school. Outside that, if you want to work in (for example) Nebraska, I’d think it would be better to go to a school ranked 120 in Nebraska rather than one in Vermont ranked 60.

      And also you’re smart to take finances into account. Graduate with as little debt as you can. I know so many people who have to stay in terrible jobs or even take second jobs to pay off their law school loans. And plenty of people who were never able to find a legal job and who still have to make that monthly payment.

      This is unsolicited advise, but also consider working for a year or two after college so you can enjoy your youth and use that time to decide whether you really want to be a lawyer.

    • Anonymous

      Big difference, sadly. I’m recently out and the hiring for my school was so much better than Georgetown, which was so much better than GW and American. Look into how many people are transferring away after 1L before you sign on to a place.

    • My experience...

      Law school rankings matter a lot. I’ll go anon for this and tell you my story (which is happy) and the story of most of my classmates (which is not so great). I have no lawyers in my family and was completely clueless about the entire law school process, so I think you’re similarly situated to where I was when I applied.

      I live in the Midwest. When I started law school in 2002, the options were a local school that is nationally ranked in the top 20 and two third tier local schools. I knew I wasn’t moving because my husband has a great job at a major company here, so that’s on me (especially when in retrospect I’ve realized he would have supported my decision to go elsewhere). I have a BS and MS in engineering (top of my class undergrad), worked for 5 years as an engineer at a major company, and scored in the 99th percentile on the LSAT. I got a full ride to the only school I applied to, which was one of the local third tier schools about which people routinely say “it’s well respected [regionally/locally/in the Upper Midwest/etc.]” all the time. I didn’t apply anywhere else because I wanted to go to law school at night so I didn’t have to quit my engineering job. (See generally posts above about divorced parents and financial security.) I have no doubt that I would have gotten into the local top-20 law school.

      I’ve had a happy post-law school experience (so far!). I was first in my class every semester, graduated valedictorian and summa, did law review, published articles at other law reviews, did moot court–basically checked all the boxes. I got a summer associate position at my “big” law firm and am now a partner at that firm. I have no debt, I love my practice and my colleagues, and I’m still happily married to my wonderful husband who rocks my success. I practice with (and am opposing counsel to) many, many lawyers who went to Harvard, Michigan, Yale, etc., and sometimes think “here we are, me with my ‘inferior’ law school JD, in the same room, doing the same thing…”

      But the fact that I graduated from a third tier school (no matter how well-respected regionally) limits my opportunities. I got a local district court federal clerkship (awesome experience, love my judge). But by year two of law school, I really wanted to go the appellate and then US Supreme Court clerkship route. My professors were doing all they could for me. But after the one appellate judge who hired from our school died, that door was shut (and I tried). I really wanted to become a law school professor. Good luck with that when 1/3rd of ALL law school professors graduate from Harvard or Yale (and I think none from my school). (Have to say that turned out to be a good thing given the plight of law schools these days.). If you’re not in the top 5 (not 5%, top 5 students) at my school, my firm will not call you back during OCI. I have federal judicial aspirations (my practice is exclusively federal), and while locally we have a reasonable number of judges who went to the aforementioned local third tier schools, the more recent ones . . . didn’t. And probably most important for my practice, the fact that I did not go to a nationally recognized school limits my ability and my firm’s ability to market me as an attorney to national clients. The GC at Major Company Headquartered in Silicon Valley has never heard of my law school, probably questions whether it’s accredited, and doesn’t care that it has a solid “regional” reputation in the Midwest. So while I ended up with most (but not quite all) of the things a Harvard Law grad who moved back here would have had, it’s been a lot more difficult for me to get those things, and I will always have to overcome that initial reaction to my law school.

      It’s not great for most of my classmates. I think in 2002 tuition at my law school was in the $32,000/year range. My friends/classmates have crushing debt – at least $150,000. They went to law school thinking they would be at the top of their class, or at least in the top 10% of their class. Obviously, 90% of them did not meet that goal. Their starting salaries in 2005/2006 were nowhere near the $100,000 that the “big” firms in our area were paying at that time. Many of them are no longer practicing law. One of them was an amazing family law attorney, but is also a single mother and has returned to her former IP paralegal job because you can’t stay afloat financially with $200,000 in student loans, 2 kids, and no assistance when you’re making $40,000/year. (I think she’s happier, too.). I think the stories get worse as tuition went up and job opportunities went down, especially since 2008/2009. Would their stories have been better if they went to the top-20 school (or Harvard)? Probably (assuming they could get in).

      Here’s my unsolicited advice after that rambling response to your question. Think really hard about why you want to go to law school, where you want to practice, and how you might react when you realize that there is a whole world of opportunities out there that are unobtainable or almost unobtainable if you go to one of those regionally-respected but lower ranked schools. Do not go to law school immediately after graduation. Work for a year or two. You’ll be a much more attractive law school candidate if you’ve done SOMETHING (and a much more attractive lawyer candidate as well). Find lawyers who do what you think you might want to do and talk with them frankly about their jobs. And if you still think you want to go to law school after all that, take an LSAT prep class and study hard for the LSAT, because you’ll want to maximize your opportunities for admission and scholarships. Apply to the best schools you think you have a shot at and some safe schools where you expect to practice. Once you have your admissions and scholarship offers, then you can make your final decision–after looking at your expected law school debt and what those payments will look like once you graduate.

      Sorry this is so long and probably full of typos. Good luck!

      • AnonAttorney

        Just to supplement my response above, I totally agree with this. If you have several law schools in your area, you should absolutely go to the one with the highest ranking. I was thinking about my personal experience, where I went to the only school in the area. The equation changes when you have several schools to choose from in the area.

        And if you go to a lower ranked school, you’ll likely be tied to the area for at least a while unless you have connections elsewhere.

      • Sunflower

        I’m going to copy this response and save it so I can give it to prospective law students who ask my advice. It says everything I’d say.

      • Mindy

        This was so very well put! Down to the part where while you have achieved great success, certain doors are still closed.

        I graduated 2011 from a “top 8” (haha, no actual flak for the t14!) law school and while it hit my classmates and me hard (OCI ended up being a joke and 50% of the class didn’t have a job at graduation, and I ended up not in big law) Because I still had the right undergrad and law school on my resume, I was able to transition to a big law job that I actually love after a few years of practice.

        Some of my colleagues at my prior job were super great at their job but because they went to St. John and not a top 8 their options are somewhat limited even if they are great legal minds and practitioners. Not fair, but it’s the unfortunate reality.

    • Wildkitten

      http://lawlemmings.tumblr.com/research
      http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/04/the-jobs-crisis-at-our-best-law-schools-is-much-much-worse-than-you-think/274795/
      http://www.salon.com/2013/04/06/law_school_is_a_sham/
      http://abovethelaw.com/2012/09/if-law-graduates-had-it-to-do-over-again-they-wouldnt-be-so-stupid/#more-191144
      http://abovethelaw.com/2013/10/deciding-to-go-to-law-school-in-one-epic-flowchart/
      http://abovethelaw.com/2010/04/the-hubris-of-would-be-lawyers/

    • SD lawyer

      I live in South Dakota. I attended the only law school in the state. I’m not a hundred percent sure but I believe that in the last round of US news rankings it was tied for #150 and was the last school ranked with a number.

      I was born here and have never lived anywhere else. I knew I never wanted to leave for school or for my career. I don’t ever remember having left my state before.

      I have never worked at a firm, or gone to court (besides when I was in law school) and I knew that would be the case going in and I was fine with that. I knew I wasn’t going to make a Biglaw salary or ever argue a case before the Supreme Court. I have an office in an insurance broker’s building and I occasionally do consultations for them, but mostly I do real estate stuff. I own one suit and can’t remember the last time I wore it to work.

      If you plan to have a career similar to mine I echo the advice of those above who suggested attending the best/only school in your area. If you want the prestige that comes with working in biglaw and making partner you should consider a top school instead.

  18. Lo

    Also – anyone into Minimalism now? I get a thrill from being frugal and having certain go – to pieces…. I sell a ton of my clothes on Poshmark… so I have made some spare change to go back into buying on durable items. I only buy designer bags that are super durable, like Celine Luggage and then no other bags for like 2 years. Same for shoes. Only super sturdy jeans or shoes. I like AG jeans or wang tees or staples from Banana Republic, I think their clothes are extremely well made and versatile. I also wear ALOT of black and grey.

    • LSC

      I am! Every time I am thinking of buying something I ask myself if I really need it or if I just want it. Then I think about early retirement or travel, and usually I put it back. I find it oddly satisfying. I am buying (or not buying, as it may be) my freedom!

      • Lo

        Same way I think!!! It’s so satisfying. I fill up a whole week cart on Nordstrom and then I exit the browser and feel SO empowered!!!

    • Suburban

      Yes! But pregnacy is killing me on this front. I finally broke down and ordered some cheapo clothes to hold me over. It’s killing me that they are not near -perfect, wear for years, ethically made stuff that fits my strict color scheme. Grrrrr. On the plus side, as my belly grows, my outfit options shrink. Getting dressed is easier when you have two dresses that fit. Crazy how having less feels like a luxury right?

  19. Anonymous

    I am not happy in my relationship, but I am being a coward about it. I am ashamed that I am not standing up for myself and I am ashamed that I am letting this person affect how I feel about myself. I wish he would break up with me so I didn’t have to do it. Perfect example of a coward. I think his kids will hate me since they see their dad happy for the first time in a while and that makes me feel worse than if he hates me. I am sick of fighting. I am exhausted. I am sick of being reminded what I am bad at and how I am not meeting his needs. But I am a coward.

    • SwElle

      This sounds to me like you are a kind person, putting others ahead of yourself. However, in this situation, you might be the only one hurting for a while (which is already a problem) but it’ll most likely compound until everyone ends up worse off in the end.

      Also, I think you need the same reminder I constantly need: put yourself first here.

      • Anonymous

        That is very kind of you, thank you.

        I have fought back on occaision, when I was told I ruined XYZ or that I did this which caused him to be upset by whatever or that how I am acting is unreasonable (and it wasn’t). I get the after the fact apologies, of course.

        It makes it worse that he is extremely well regarded professionally and that all of his friends love his no nonsense, take no prisoners, brash personality, and I am some pretty younger woman who has little to no professional acclaim, which for the record I am COMPLETELY fine with. I like my life, I like my work, and I like that I have a life outside work. I am financially independent, so I don’t need him in any way and we aren’t married.

        I am, however, a coward. I am so afraid of failing at yet another relationship, but I keep picking men who are not right for me. I was broken up with out of the blue the last two times I dated. I just want to be alone with my cats. Lol. Really.

        Aye yi yi. I know what the right thing to do is, bu doing it is much harder than knowing sometimes.

        • SwElle

          <3 I'm cheering you on in spirit. That's a tough situation, but you sound like you know what's best, just need a support system away from him. If we were offline, I'd bring you out for drinks and help you plan!

        • Anonymous BigLaw Associate

          Maybe this is a reach, but is he possible emotionally abuse? I see so many red flags in what you write. Examples:
          -I am sick of being reminded what I am bad at and how I am not meeting his needs.
          -I was told I ruined XYZ.
          -I did this which caused him to be upset by whatever.
          -how I am acting is unreasonable

          This isn’t how adults should be treating each other….if it is a pattern of behavior, you gotta get out….

          • SuziStockbroker

            That sounds emotionally abusive to me too. Very similar to my sister’s soon-to-be ex-husband.

          • Anonymous

            Thank you all for taking the time to read and respond. I am so afraid that maybe I AM the one that is overreacting and being unreasonable. He doesn’t like that when I ge t upset I “shut down” and need time to gather myself and that he has to wait for me to indicate when I am back to normal. Is it unreasonable for me to do this?

            We spoke this morning over the phone at his request because I got very angry at an email he sent me last night, which caused me to want to have the night to do my own thing and not engage. He wanted to know what I was feeling etc. I said that the email made me mad and I wasn’t sure what his intent was by sending it. At some point, I was told I was being psychotic about something. I told him that type of thing wasn’t nice and he said he would use different words to talk to me. Am I the crazy one? Am I making a big deal out of things that are no big deal? I know couples fight, but what is acceptable and what is not?

            It’s interesting because my therapist told me that she thinks I would be a great mediator because I am able to see other people’s points of view and am able to fairly assess what others needs are. How does her thought on that square with what I feel is my partner thinking the way that he does? He wants me to put things in context – to be able to think about all the times he says he loves me and why, to remember that he talks about me with his kids and brags about me, to let all of that give me positive warm feelings when he says something that upsets me. How do you all deal with that sort of thing? I understand that it’s probably important to think of things in context, but I don’t think being annoyed about something like continually leaving socks on the floor (which should be put in context) is the same as putting being told I am being psychotic about something in context. Am I off base here?

            My therapist has told me that he needs to back off and that some of the things he has said are not okay. I have told him that he is not nice and that it’s not okay to say certain things, which causes him to apologize and say he will change how he talks to me. She doesn’t know all of this most recent stuff, but I am going in a couple of weeks so will bring all of it up.

            I am so struggling with whether I am overreacting or acting reasonably. I know you can’t hear his side of the story, so I don’t know if maybe I am painting it to be worse than it is? UGH.

          • S

            If you’re shutting down something is causing you to shut down and whatever that is (his behavior, your past), your partner needs to be kind and understanding and give you the space you need to come back to a place of comfort and safety BEFORE discussing the underlying issue. Full stop. Period. I’d recommend asking him for a week apart, no contact, to clear your head. See how you feel. Try really hard to listen to the little voice inside of you, and if there is a whisper that you feel better, try another week no contact. Something serious is going on here, whatever it is, and he needs to support you in you figuring out for yourself what’s best for you. Trust yourself.

          • Anonymous

            In response to your question “how do you deal with that sort of thing,” I think the answer is you don’t. I share your instinct to always see the other perspective too, and I think it can make us more willing to tolerate bad or abusive behavior. I’m not sure what’s going on here, and only you can know whether you need to get out of this relationship, but from what you’ve said, there are some major red flags, and you don’t “deal” with those. You remove yourself from the situation.

          • Amanda

            I agree with what everyone else has said. You have the right to feel how you feel. He doesn’t have the right to call you psychotic for that. You are not overreacting, it is how you feel, it can’t be wrong. You can do this! I promise that you will feel so much better once you tell him you are not happy.

            I wish I had done exactly this with my soon-to-be ex-husband, instead of shutting down my inner voice. Like you, he also convinced me that I was crazy and was over-reacting to everything. I wasn’t, and when we split, he actually apologized for making me feel that way – he did it to make himself feel better about his actions.

  20. Anon

    I was recently accepted to both Minnesota and Notre Dame for law school with 50% scholarship. Thanks to some savings I set aside for graduate school, my debt will be pretty manageable after graduation. My biggest consideration is getting a job after school of course – ideally a mid size firm in Chicago. What things should I be thinking about when evaluating these two schools? Anyone have experience with either? Is a Notre Dame degree more portable than Minnesota? Just looking to get more perspectives to chew on as I make my decision. Thanks!

    • Anonymous

      Both are very good schools but I think ND has stronger alum networks, especially in Chicago.

    • ANP

      No law school experience here but I grew up in South Bend and have definitely run into ND alumni all over the world. Tons of them in Chicago but I imagine lots of MN alumni too. Still, ND Irish blood runs deep. Good luck making your choice!

    • Ekaterin Nile

      My firm has offices in Minneapolis, Chicago, and Indiana. If you think you want to work in Chicago, go to Notre Dame. We hire ND grads for Minneapolis regularly, but I’m not sure firms in Chicago hire MN grads at the same rate. Plus, that ND network is insanely powerful.

      • Mpls

        +1 – the ND alumni network will be stronger than the U of M (assuming that is the one you are talking about).

        However, the U of M law students put on a full-on musical year. Don’t know if it competes with a stronger network in the long-term, but still pretty awesome :)

    • Beth

      As a U of M grad, I liked the school but if you aren’t okay with the idea of at least starting your career in Minneapolis, look elsewhere. A U of M degree is portable (I have friends in BigLaw in NYC, Chicago and DC), but does not have the same alumni network, and I would guess, the same career center support. The U of M career center is focused on Minneapolis and students who want to leave are sort of on their own.

  21. Northeast Girls Trip Suggestions?

    I’m trying to put together an inexpensive overnight or weekend trip with my best friend. We’ve had trouble getting together and spending time alone lately, so we both really want to go away for a nice trip.

    We’re in Boston, and somewhere not too far of a drive is ideal. Something not particularly expensive is also ideal! We both like traveling and exploring, but I think something relaxing and open to long nights of talking over wine would be great. I had been thinking maybe some small town with easy hikes or a less expensive spa of some sort? I don’t have any ideas right now, though. :(

    Any suggestions? TIA!

  22. Lo

    Anyone tried the Isola Banner Bootie before??

    Or Isola shoes? How do they run? I’m a size 10.5. Not sure if I should go with a 10 or 11, they finally went down to $54 for a calf hair Bootie.

    • Anonymous

      I got a pair of isola shoes from zappos that I loved… Unfortunately, zappos sent the wrong size and they were out of the right one. I was really impressed with the shoes, and super-bummed that right size wasn’t available.

  23. JSE

    My husband and I are planning to spend a long weekend in NYC in April after he finishes a trial. We’d like to bring our daughter (10 mos.), too. Any suggestions for family friendly activities during the day? Any suggestions for how to find a good babysitter for a date night? Restuarant suggestions? Thanks in advance!

    • anon prof

      My Hue leggings and my Jag jeans. I love how I look in the, errr, 6 Eileen Fisher tunics I own that are all same style but different colors, but I’m very sad about how much they have pilled. Admittedly, it’s been one year of near-weekly wear.

    • NOLA

      I bought the Franco Sarto Artisan boots in two colors and I’ve worn them to death. My other faves are probably my Steve Madden Liliane combat boots with multiple straps and studs. Hue Ultra leggings are wonderful. And Blue Q socks.

  25. Sydney Bristow

    What colors or items would you pair with a pale pink blazer? I just ordered the Hazelbury blazer from Boden in rose quartz. It’s backordered until the end of May but I’d like to fill in some wardrobe gaps before it arrives.

      • Lucy

        I really like that. I had a pale pink Talbots blazer and found it remarkably versatile. It can go with many colors- black, navy, tan, olive, burgundy. But my very favorite is a flat (not heathered) medium to light grey.

        • Anonymous

          I have a pink blazer from talbots and wore it with light gray pants, navy and white striped shirt, equestrian style square scarf with pink, navy and gray, and navy flats.

    • Anonymous

      I wear mine over black, grey, and a heathered purple sheath dress, for the days I want to feel girly.

    • Sydney Bristow

      Navy and gray are totally possible. Burgundy is a great idea I wouldn’t have thought of. Thanks all!

    • NOLA

      I took my friend out to lunch on her birthday and she wore gray pants, a white top, pink blazer, and layered pink enamel and silver necklaces. She looked great! Her blazer was a little peachier pink but I like the pink and gray.

  26. Randi

    Can we talk breast reductions (please go anon if needed)?

    I’m overweight and have big boobs. I even had big boons before I was overweight just not as big.

    I feel the size they are now is making it impossible for me to really workout at the intensity I need to to lose the weight.

    Has anyone been in a similar situation or have any advice?

    • 2 Cents

      I can commiserate. I have big boobs (42F), and they were big even when my band size was smaller. The best bras I’ve bought to combat bounce are Enell and Champion from the Hanes(?) outlet store. And if I’m really running, then I double up. Seems like sports bra manufacturers can’t fathom a large-breasted woman working out!

      • Anonymous

        Even as a fairly small-chested runner, I double up too! One sports bra is just not enough IMO for anything where you’re seriously going to be bouncing (e.g. running, tennis, etc.).

        • Anonymous

          *for my personal comfort level at least, I’m sure it’s a very individual thing.

    • Baconpancakes

      Yep, I went to a size 36G 14 years ago while on the crew team in high school – so super active and fit and still honking huge boobs. It was not working for me, so I had a breast reduction down to a size C, and it was a fantastic decision. Even though I’ve gained weight and I’m now at a size 36E again, they’re more manageable, rounder, and I think overall more attractive, and when I do lose weight and go back down to a DD, they don’t look deflated, just less huge.

      BUT I will say that if it’s just the bra that’s the problem, and you don’t dislike the size of your boobs overall, don’t get an unnecessary surgery. There are bras out there for you – they’re just expensive and hard to find. You need a “cupping” bra, not a “squashing” bra like most sports bras that only go up to size C or D. I’ll post a link below.

    • Bethany

      I had a reduction 5 years ago….and was overweight, it was the smartest thing I ever did. To this day, my husband and I are both surprised at the lack of scars and the recovery process. I took a week off of work to do this surgery and that was plenty of time. Doing this gave me the energy to workout and I am now a healthy weight. It took me about two years post surgery to get there, but I got there. I am not an advocate of surgery for surgery sake and took this decision very seriously. I met with four doctors because I selected one..,,and then I waited about three months before I scheduled the surgery to make sure I wasn’t crazy. I wish I would have done it ten years before. I’m happier, healthier, and shopping for clothing is fun again. It was simply a chore and everything required alterations. I should also mention that my insurance paid for 100% of this surgery because my breasts were so large it was hurting my back, neck, shoulders, hips….everything.

    • kag

      Such a surgery is quite invasive, so try good bra first: I’d recommend Panache or Freya (for both sport and regular bras).

    • mascot

      I had one 20 years ago . It was great and I’m glad I did it, but the results don’t last forever (weight fluctuations, pregnancy, etc). Yes, my shape is better even though they have mostly returned to their larger size. If I had to do it again, I would have asked to go really small (like size B) to allow for my body’s natural tendency to fill those things out.
      I like Moving Comfort sports bras.

  28. Sociology?

    Are any of you alum from the Chicago school? It’s the gold standard for sociology, though it would require uprooting my entire life. I am just wondering if it’s as amazing from someone on the inside. I’d be going there to get my Masters. One thing that’s a little concerning is that it’s a MA, does the Art distinction matter since it’s the best school?

    • Wildkitten

      Why are you getting an MA in sociology? My favorite professor in undergrad got her PHD from WJW at Harvard, right after he left Chicago, and she was amazing, but I don’t know the benefit of uprooting your life for a Soc MA.

      • Seriously

        Again, you don’t have to comment on anything. You are a lawyer. She is taking a different path. Let people who have taken that path give her advice.

        • Wildkitten

          I’m not going to respond to you again, but I do see what a lovely shade of black you are today, pot.

      • Sociology?

        I was going to dignify this with an answer as to why the degree would be advantageous, but instead… I’m younger than you, make more money than you, have no credit card debt and no school loans. While you might find inherent value in law the social sciences are treating me much better than law is treating you.

        • Wildkitten

          I’m sorry – my answer came across completely different than I intended it. I think Sociology is a great field and definitely not worth less than law. I discourage folks from going to law school, based primary on my my personal experience.

          What I am trying to say is – is a terminal Masters in Sociology something that would serve you well? Or, does that school’s reputation and worth come across in the PhD program? Uprooting your life to go to a life-changing program is totally worthwhile, but are you trying to get a Masters to be less disruptive when a PhD would actually serve you better?

          • Wildkitten

            And I’d genuinely love to know a terminal masters in soc can be beneficial. It was my favorite subject in college – partially due to the subject and partially due to my amazing professor who I adored. I’m currently reading a sociology/anthropology book just for fun because I love the subject so much.

          • Sociology?

            The job advancement I’m going after would either require more experience or a master’s. I would never need a PhD for a job and I’d never want to be a professor. The only way I’d even want a master’s would be if it was from the best school. Otherwise experience would serve me just as well as a master’s from a non prestigious school.

          • Wildkitten

            Ah – if your job is just as valuable as school but pays handsomely I think you know your answer.

        • Anonymous

          This seems unnecessarily mean. You should have gone with your first instinct.

  29. Camla

    My ex-husband cheated on me with a woman who was also married. When they eventually married, a friend who does needlepoint made me 2 pillows to give them as wedding gifts. One said “What do you get when you marry a man who cheats on his wife? A man who cheats on his wife”. The other said “What do you get when you marry a woman who cheats on her husband? A woman who cheats on her husband”. I applauded the sentiment (Ann Landers originally, I believe) but, since they both had children, elected not to give them. To this day, I wish I had given them those pillows. They divorced after 10 years and my children still hate her.

  30. Boarding School

    So I was talking with my mom yesterday about our experiences at boarding school after Friday’s discussion. And I agree that my school today has changed. I had a “Get off my lawn” reaction when I learned the students wear jeans (“They don’t have to wear coat and tie!”) and the sixth form dance was held at the ICA with the after party on a boat in Boston Harbor. “It’s always in the dining room!”

    I went to boarding school in the 80’s and my mother went to an all-girls’ school in the 60’s and we were definitely not coddled.

    I thought I’d tell you all about my sadistic biology teacher, Miss P. My parents tried like he!! to get me out of that class, but no dice. Our first project was to take our own blood. I couldn’t get blood out of any of my fingers. I stabbed them multiple times and ended up having to draw blood each day from my thighs. It’s no wonder needles freak me out.

    But the next project was a nightmare. For a week, we kept mice and had to give them daily pap smears. At the end of the week, we had to break their necks and then dissect them.

    This, by the way, was sophomore year. I was 14.

    I was a wreck. I could not kill my mouse. I asked if I could use ether. My parents called the school. Miss P. refused to let me get out of it. She finally came up behind me, had me put my hand on the mouse and slammed her hand down on top of it so that we crushed the mouse’s neck.

    I will tell you, though, that in one of the other sections – the Brown section (our classes were color-coded) – Bob B’s mouse was male so all the mice in that section got pregnant.

    Anyway, there was no hand-holding or coddling at my east coast boarding school at least in the 80’s…

  31. AggieGirl

    I’m looking for a blazer that looks flattering over dresses. I have boyfriend blazers of every kind, but think more of a drapey/open front would be better. TIA

    • Anonymous

      I either wear a slightly cropped blazer (hem slightly above the sleeve length, or a jacket of about the same length. For me, a like it when the tops are slightly boxy… but that may be what is best for my body type.

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