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Something on your mind? Chat about it here.
I wear my hair up a ton in the summer because of frizz and other craziness from my kinda-curly, kinda-wavy hair. Drop earrings always feel like a sexy, fun way to accentuate my neck and make my up-do look intentional for a date night (or any other outing not involving grabby toddlers because, well, OW.) These semiprecious stone drop earrings from Kendra Scott look gorgeous — I like the pictured amethyst ones the best, but that's me. They're $80 at Nordstrom. Kendra Scott ‘Caroline' Semiprecious Stone Drop Earrings
Two lower-priced options are here and here.
I've been playing around with using collages more on the site, so I thought I'd put together a whole weekend look for you guys — I might wear this look to a date night or possibly even a country wedding (with a more colorful wrap).
Pictured, clockwise: dress / earrings / up-do / gold clutch / beige cage sandals / bracelets
(L-4)Sales of note for 9.19.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September, and cardmembers earn 3x the points (ends 9/22)
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles — and 9/19 only, 50% off the cashmere wrap
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Anniversary event, 25% off your entire purchase — Free shipping, no minimum, 9/19 only
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- Tuckernuck – Friends & Family Sale – get 20%-30% off orders (ends 9/19).
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
lsw
Rampant political speculation – who do we think will be named as Clinton’s VP and when? Is Elizabeth Warren too good to be true?
PS Those earrings are GORGEOUS.
Anonymous
I hope it isn’t Elizabeth Warren. America is just barely ready (and may not be ready) to vote for ONE woman on the ticket. Adding a 2nd women — that’s like sinking the ship bc I see guys out there getting comfortable with HRC running with a man, not HRC and another woman.
Anonymous
I think Elizabeth Warren also torpedoes HRC’s appeal to the more moderate Repubs who don’t want to vote for Trump.
I don’t identify as Republican but have historically voted that way, and will probably vote Gary Johnson this election, but I am still open to HRC. Warren would close that door.
Anonymous
You know the VP does absolutely nothing, right? It’s a symbolic position. If you’re that turned off by Warren’s politics you should vote for a Clinton-Warren ticket to get her out of the Senate. She’s doing a lot more for the liberal agenda there than she would as VP.
Idea
I think Biden (and Gore, and even Cheney to some extent) were a big help wrangling the Senate, same -party and opposite-party into votes for their respective Presidential policies. So, I agree Warren is not a good choice. And also a good VP is more than just symbolic.
Anonymous
Biden didn’t do a very good job then, LOL. This has got to be the least cooperative Congress in history.
Anonymous
VP will matter, like Gerald Ford to Nixon. I see Trump getting successfully impeached and ousted if elected. Just saying.
L
Yes, I’m imagining it will be a man–likely with active duty military experience–for this reason
Anonymous
Totally disagree. I think Warren is definitely her best bet. Sexist people aren’t going to vote for HRC anyway and I think the choice of Warren would energize a lot of Sanders’ supporters who might not otherwise vote for Clinton. I’m actually not a huge Warren fan personally – she’s way more liberal than I am – but I think Clinton should pick her as VP because I think it give her the best chance of winning. I think it might be different if there were a male VP contender who was inspiring, especially to the more liberal wing of the party, but honestly the guys she’d be picking from – Tim Kaine? Sherrod Brown? – are pretty much no-names and don’t really bring anything to the table. I don’t think they’re going to energize the electorate anywhere near as much as Warren would. I guess I can see an argument for Biden but I don’t think he would do it again and I’m not sure they have the best personal relationship. And personally, I think we’re WAY overdue for two women in the White House. To paraphrase what RBG said about the Supreme Court, “Why not? There have been two men there for a long time.”
+1 on the earrings. I’m coveting them and I don’t even have pierced ears!
lsw
I agree with this. I mean, do you feel like people who wouldn’t have voted for Obama changed their mind because he had Biden on the ticket? I mean maybe, but I feel like people who don’t want a black president or don’t want a female president aren’t going to be all, “it’s okay, there’s a white man as VP” and vote for that candidate. The misogynists just aren’t going to vote for Clinton, period. Seems to me like the convergence of the Venn diagram of people who wouldn’t vote for her with a female VP but would with a male VP is small. But then I read a lot of stuff about Gamergate and posts that Jessica Valenti shares about people commenting on her columns and I feel like those misogynists aren’t going to be on board with any female candidate regardless of her ticket partner.
AlsoAPair
I think many people who voted for Obama would not have voted for an Obama/ Al Sharpton ticket. Biden is seen as a pretty neutral character while Warren/ Sharpton are both much further from the center and share the same non-whitemale attribute as the candidate contributing to an impression of clubbiness.
Engagement Ring Question
FWIW, I didn’t vote for McCain in 2008 because of Sarah Palin. The VP pick does matter.
For H’s VP, I would like to see someone who is more moderate and from the West Coast. Military experience and a business background would be a plus. I have no idea who this could be but I’m hoping. I think male/female doesn’t matter. A POC would be amazing.
Flaming Moderate
I was considering voting for McCain before he picked Palin too. I like both Obama and McCain for different reasons, but once he picked Palin, I knew that he was pandering to the Tea Party, and I voted for Obama.
Gail the Goldfish
I know multiple Republicans who didn’t vote for McCain because he picked Palin.
Idea
Did the Tea Party even exist pre-election 2008? I thought it was a reaction to the 2008 election?
bridget
Tea Party as we know it started in February of 2009.
The only time McCain lead Obama in the polls was from the day after he nominated Palin until the collapse a few weeks later.
Facts are helpful. Bashing Palin – an amazingly talented governor with a record of accomplishments far exceeding Obama’s – is sexist.
factchecking
@Idea. You’re right! According to the internet…
The catalyst for what would become known as the Tea Party movement came on February 19, 2009, when Rick Santelli, a commentator on the business-news network CNBC, referenced the Boston Tea Party (1773) in his response to Pres. Barack Obama’s mortgage relief plan.
anon
“Facts are helpful. Bashing Palin – an amazingly talented governor with a record of accomplishments far exceeding Obama’s – is sexist.”
Bahahahahahaha. Thanks. I needed a mid-afternoon laugh.
Anonymous
lol what? Srsly Bridget?
Little Red
Oh, bridget, you’re too funny! Sarah Palin, that half-term governor, and who can’t speak a single comprehensible sentence, has no record of accomplishments far exceeding Obama.
Little Red
anon@4:08 PM +100000000000!
Jen
I also would have voted for McCain but did not after he chose Palin. I voted Obama and that was the first and only election I’ve voted for a democratic president. FWIW I live in a rock solid blue state so my vote doesn’t matter anyway :-)
Anonymous
But I suspect a lot of these moderates who Warren would supposedly alienate are not people who voted for Obama in 2012, and he won that election very comfortably, especially in the electoral college. I can see a Clinton-Warren ticket turning off some 2008 Obama voters but you can lose a LOT of ’08 Obama voters and still win.
Anonymous
Can someone summarize what Warren’s deal is/what her ideology is? I am not liberal enough that I’ve looked into it myself.
For the person saying that sexists won’t vote for HRC anyway so 2 women don’t matter. I think it does. It’s not like people know and realize that they’re sexist. They’re just “uncomfortable” with a woman in office. As they see more and more of HRC and maybe see a few debates with Trump they may start to realize that she has some idea what she’s talking about while he doesn’t, so they make get over their discomfort. Add in a 2nd woman and that’s double the discomfort — and they may not be able to get over that.
I tend to agree — man with a military background is best bc it gets the republican leaning folks who just can’t bring themselves to vote for Trump. At the end of the day she doesn’t have to do much to get the Bernie voters — they will either not vote bc their candidate is out or they’ll vote democratic anyway bc Bernie will tell them to and they believe in liberal ideas.
Bonnie
Warren seems like the female Bernie and would probably bring in some of those votes. I think the people that would not vote for an all female ticket, are not going to vote for HRC anyway.
Anonymous
Not sure about that. I’ll vote for HRC but an all female ticket with a female who is THAT liberal gives me pause. That doesn’t mean I’ll run out and vote for DT instead — I just won’t vote. I can’t imagine I’m the only one in the country who thinks this — I lean Republican and am the kind of vote HRC needs.
Anonymous
It’s fair if Warren’s liberal politics give you pause, but why does an all female ticket give you pause but voting for a female president doesn’t? Saying you won’t vote for a presidential ticket because it has two women is sexist. Period. Full stop.
Second That
Thanks for typing this before I did. What is “an all female ticket with a female who is THAT liberal?” It’s like the poster this morning who said it’s fine to put a female on a speaking panel as long as the female is qualified. What???
Anonymous
Ok well then I’ll say it that way. I just wouldn’t vote for an all female ticket. I can’t explain to you why (so you’ll likely say sexism), but I wouldn’t.
Cc
There’s no possible explanation that’s not sexist. You’ll vote for an all male ticket (because surely you’ve voted before) but you won’t vote for an female ticket. I honestly tried to think of any way that’s not sexist and couldn’t because you clearly are saying you wouldn’t vote for any female ticket- not these particular two. Really sad that not only are some women sexist, but a woman on this particular web page.
Anonymous
That is, to paraphrase something the Republicans said a lot the last couple of weeks, “the textbook definition of a sexist comment.”
Anonymous
“I’m not sexist, but…”
Eyeroll.
Anonymous
I think a possible non-sexist (?) explanation is that she’s not allowed to by her husband. /snort
Anonymous
Yeah if you just wouldn’t vote for an all female ticket you are sexist. At least own it.
Sydney Bristow
I think Warren could bring back the Bernie or bust people. I’m voting for Clinton regardless of who her VP choice is but I’d love to see her pick Warren or Biden.
I know one person who is leaning towards Trump now that Clinton will be the nominee but I’m positive that picking Warren would change his mind.
jwalk
I think it might bring some back but might turn others against Warren. Bernie and Warren both agree on going after Wall Street, but then Clinton is so cozy with them that it could easily look like Warren is selling out if she’s Clinton’s VP.
Gail the Goldfish
It boggles my mind that picking Elizabeth Warren would make someone currently leaning towards Trump lean back to Clinton. I mean, aren’t Warren and Trump pretty much the polar opposites of each other?
Anonymous
I don’t know about people who actually like Trump, but there are a lot of left-wing Bernie supporters who feel that HRC is way too moderate, and are threatening to stay home, and they would be much more likely to vote for her if Warren were Veep. There’s a good chance many of those people would come around even with a more moderate VP pick though, especially if Trump keeps putting his foot in his mouth like he did with the judge.
Sydney Bristow
He’s opposed to Clinton solely on the basis of a single policy issue (NAFTA). As I understand it, he’d hope that Warren could influence things and that would make him feel ok voting for Clinton.
I don’t pretend to really understand his thinking though. I just assume that there could be other people out there who feel similarly.
tesyaa
Chances are that person (and similar-thinking people) are in NY or other blue states which are unlikely to go to Trump anyway. Remember, electoral college.
Anonymous
I would vote for an all female ticket. I would not vote for a ticket with Warren. Even if her position is only symbolic.
Anonymous
Same.
LawDawg
I liked the logic of this article from last month, http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/2016-elections-al-franken-vice-president-213756
Al Franken has name recognition, he’s a funny policy wonk, and he can stand toe to toe with Trump on an off-teleprompter debate. It seems ridiculous at first, but not after you read the article.
Anna
Yes, Al Franken would be great!
brokentoe
I heard this on NPR earlier this week and it also made sense from the standpoint that MN’s Democratic governor would appoint another D to take Franken’s Senate seat – which is an issue with Warren, Brown, etc. because of the R governors and the slim margin in the Senate.
Anonymous
Biden would make me happiest personally. I think Elizabeth Warren (would bring in all but the most misogynistic Bernie supporters) or Mark Warner (swing state, some name recognition, won’t be seen as a diversity pick) would probably be the smartest choice politically. I will vote for her no matter who she picks, although it would kill me if she picked Bernie (I don’t think that will happen though).
Anonymous
Biden is KILLING it this week First with his open letter to the Stanford rape survivor and then with his speech at the ACS convention. Bomb.com.
Anonymous
Can someone who is knowledgeable briefly summarize Warren’s position? I know she’s liberal but how liberal exactly — as in examples of what she believes? I haven’t cared enough to look into it but now that this is looking like a real possibility, I’m curious.
AnonJ
Very simply – finance reform. She makes no bones about calling out the larger banks/credit card companies for financial policies that are damaging to lower/middle class families.
Anonymous
Great. Another anti Wall Street and anti financial services type. Will not be voting for HRC if she’s on the ticket.
anon a mouse
I think you mean that she’s “anti financial services making gobs of money based on tiny print that lawyers can’t even understand.” Even she would be quick to say that credit cards aren’t inherently evil, but hiding the effect of one missed payment on page 17 of a 20 page agreement isn’t a fair playing field.
I didn’t know much about her, and then I read her autobiography. She makes a lot of very reasonable points about how the financial system is rigged against an average consumer.
Little Red
She’s also big on consumer protection. We all know about the fine legal print that is impossible to get through even for an intelligent, well-educated to slog their way through. She’s for simplifying so that ordinary people (AKA people without fancy MBAs or law degrees) can understand what they are signing up for.
Anonymous
I think Warren would be a mistake. For Warren, she’d be giving up a far more influential position in the Senate. For HRC, there’s a non-zero risk that Warren’s firebrand politics upstages HRC. Warren would struggle to reconcile some of her past critiques of HRC’s conduct and policy and would be forced to answer with “still better than Trump.” I don’t really have a problem with a two-woman ticket, but I don’t think she’s the right one.
Anonymous
I feel this same way. And I honestly don’t love that Warren is going toe to toe with Trump in the ugly rhetoric. I know some response is necessary, but she seems to have resorted to the same ugly name-calling he’s doing. I’d love HRC and her ticket to stay above that.
Anonymous
The Twitter bit was pretty embarassing.
Anonymous
Co-sign this 100%. This is my biggest problem with Warren. You shouldn’t match name-calling with name-calling.
cbackson
Warren verges on the demagogic, and sometimes more than verges. I appreciate her value as a firebrand, but I don’t want her in the White House (or one heartbeat away).
Cc
I’m surprised to see people even talking about warren as a possibility. I think there is zero percent chance of hrc picking her or warren accepting. Warren wants to be president – vp here would only hurt. She’d have to play second fiddle and give up a more influential less scrutinized position in the senate. That said she is a crucial ally for hrc.
Anonymous
The gambling sites have her as the second most likely pick, so it’s not definitely some crazy remote possibility.
Sydney Bristow
I don’t think Warren would actually accept it for all the reasons you mentioned.
Little Red
That’s my feeling as well. I think she’s far more influential in the Senate as a thorn in the GOP’s side. Also, MA has a GOP governor and he would put in a Republican as her replacement should she become VP. While MA is a reliably Democratic state, Republicans do manage to get in as evidenced by their current governor even if he isn’t a right-wing nutter.
Blonde Lawyer
I really like Warren but I do worry that Warren might torpedo her chances of winning. Not because it would be a dual woman ticket. The swing voters are socially liberal but fiscally conservative. Warren doesn’t speak to that crowd. Trump does.
Sarabeth
They really aren’t, though. The number of people with that set of politics is low, and they mostly live in big cities that are in non-swing states. Also, Trump does not speak to that crowd, at all; socially liberal voters are generally not on board with racism and xenophobia, and Trump’s economic plans are a mishmash of ultra-conservative (tax cuts) and not-at-all conservative (opposition to free trade).
Anonymous
I would agree that Warren does not speak to that crowd, but I don’t think Trump does either. He may not be as pro-life or homophobic as most Republicans, but I can’t imagine that all of his blatant racism, misogyny and anti-Muslim statements are going to appeal to anyone who identifies as “socially liberal.” I consider myself a member of that group, fwiw.
Blonde Lawyer
Immediately after I hit send I thought Trump really isn’t socially liberal either. I guess what I should have said is Warren alienates fiscally conservative democrats.
Emmer
I hope it’s not Elizabeth Warren. I am a regular old Democrat – not too far left or right (I align very closely with HRC’s policies and have been a long-time supporter). I think this election it is more important to try to sway moderate Republicans and Independents who hate Trump than it is to sway Bernie fans, who will likely vote for Clinton anyway (or were unlikely to vote to begin with).
Personally, I love Cory Booker, and think he could connect with a lot of people. He has an Obama-like charisma that a lot of people find lacking in HRC.
Anonymous
Cory Booker gave the commencement speech at Stanford the year my now-husband graduated and it was the most boring hour of my life. Charismatic, he is not.
Emmer
Cory Booker gave the commencement speech at Stanford the year my now-husband graduated and it was the most boring hour of my life. Charismatic, he is not.
Anonymous
Yeah, it was a few years ago. His commencement speech was mostly about himself and how great he was. I’m sure he can be charismatic on other subjects and even great speakers give bad speeches. I think plenty of other people in attendance enjoyed it too. I just found it really boring and kind of off-putting how self-centered it was.
EM
I think Warren would be tapped for a Cabinet position (like Treasury?) before VP. I don’t think Warren would add anything to HRC’s ticket. In fact, I think she would turn people away.
HRC is a bit of a lightening rod…and I would think her ticket would do better with someone more mellow.
Anon in NYC
Favorite weekender bag? I’m looking for something that is light and easy to carry, that I can use as a carry-on for me plus my LO or for an overnight stay. I’m looking at the Lo & Sons Catalina, but I’m wondering if there are other good ones out there. I’d like to spend less than $150. Thanks!
L
I adore Everyone’s duffel bags. Sturdy, affordable, and classic.
L
Sorry, that should have been Everlane
Sydney Bristow
Oohh good question. This description plus the strap thing that slides over the handle of my rolling suitcase is something I’ve been casually looking for as well.
Anonymous
Longchamp. Super light weight and they hold a ton.
Bonnie
I like LL Bean’s adventure duffle. Super lightweight and has a ton of pockets.
NOLA
I have the Vera Bradley weekender in the classic black and it’s a great size for a carry-on. I’m not a fan of the prints but the bag is great in black.
Elle
I don’t have it but I want the perfect bag from eBags for this exact reason. I gave others from them that I love. I have too many bags right now but that’s the one I’d purchase.
Engagement Ring Question
So…this is super pre-mature but my BF and I are talking engagement! Because of some goals I have (changing careers requiring school) and goals we have (moving in together, then building a house and moving to a different state), this won’t happen for at least another 2 years.
Thing is, I know what I want for an engagement ring. I want my paternal grandmother’s ring. A childless aunt inherited the ring when Grandma died and wears it regularly. I would never ask for the ring itself.
Would it be really gauche/rude/tacky to ask her to take pictures of the ring so I can have a replica made by a jeweler? It’s a traditional design but relatively uncommon. The closest ring I’ve found is the Cleopatra Ring at Brilliant Earth (it sold long ago but you can see it online). There are some difference but you’ll get the idea.
How do you go about asking someone to take a picture of their (beloved) ring? I don’t want to come off as being I-don’t-want-that-old-thing (I really would prefer the ring itself but I could never ask that my aunt give it up–she treasures it).
Thanks!
CountC
“Aunt, I know how much you cherish grandmother’s/your mother’s engagement ring. I think it’s absolutely beautiful and I would love to have a ring made in a similar style for my own engagement ring. I love the idea that I will be reminded of her every time I look at my hand. Would you mind taking a picture of it for me so that I can show it to a jeweler? Love, EGQ”
Engagement Ring Question
Thanks! That’s perfect!
L
Two points:
1. I don’t see why your list of goals precludes engagement/marriage. The conversation should be about lifetime commitment; commitment to shared goals, etc. Still being in school shouldn’t conflict–there’s no magic punchiest of things you need to achieve to be ready to marry. (Okay, there might be a magic punchlist, but of very intangible items, such as “maturity to put another’s needs above your own.)
2. Two years off? Let this one lie until no more than 6 months ahead. Or, even wait until you’re engaged–i.e., you’ve made the commitment to each other–and then worry about the ring! You will absolutely have to discuss this with your aunt; even if you had the ring replicated from memory, if it’s a unique piece, it will be just weird to show up wearing it without her having been given a heads up. Some sort of explanation of your long-term affection for the design and the person it brings to mind, and requesting permission to take pictures to deliver to a jeweller.
Senior Attorney
But yes… by all means cool your jets until it’s actually time to act on it.
Engagement Ring Question
Thanks! I’ll wait.
Yes, there is no magic punchlist–agreed! We’ve discussed the sequence in great detail and, for us, this is what works. It may all change and we are ready for that. But this is what works in our situation right now.
Iliana
My BF and I had a “list” of things we wanted to accomplish before we got engaged, but we knew we wanted to marry each other regardless. For both of us, the “accomplishments” were a sign of maturity in our eyes. For him, it was acceptance into his grad program and a move cross-country, and for me it was figuring out what I wanted to do for a career and making strides there.
We talked about rings about 1 year out, he put a lot of thought into it and wanted to shop around. I would say you’re probably fine talking about it, so long as you know not to expect it sooner than your timeline.
Engagement Ring Question
Thanks for the support! Our problem isn’t a lack of maturity so much as it is lots of “good” baggage–kids, elderly parents, businesses, and investments. My new career is less of an advancement and more of a “something I want to do” regardless of what it will pay.
We are working on simplifying what we can simplify and positioning ourselves for our next phase before getting lawyers involved and legally joining our obligations and assets.
Wildkitten
Same. I want us both to pay off our non-student loan debt. I want to have savings to throw a wedding. I don’t prioritize getting married above all other things – we could elope at the courthouse – but I’d rather wait. Marriage, to me, is a capstone not a cornerstone. I want to celebrate with all my friends and family when my ducks are in a more row-like formation.
Senior Attorney
That is a gorgeous ring (and not at all dissimilar to mine so I super love it!)!
I can’t imagine your aunt would be anything other than touched and happy to be asked! And you never know — maybe she’ll offer to give it to you once she knows how much it means to you!
Also, if you are in the LA area I can send you to the jeweler who made my ring and who would totally rock it.
ITDS
You can get your ring sooner: Why not make the lifetime commitment official and get engaged before making the financial commitment involved in building a house together official?
Anonymous
Right? Why on earth is “build a house” before “make a legally binding financial commitment to each other.”
That’s just dumb.
Sydney Bristow
I know nobody wants to plan for failure, but at least you can deal with the logistics of keeping or selling a house in a divorce decree. It can be so much harder to do if a non-legally binding relationship breaks up. Or so I’ve seen from the fallout of some breakups.
Anon
Yep. I had a case with this exact issue and our state has ZERO statutory or case law on it. The case was a complete disaster.
Wildkitten
I agree.
Engagement Ring Question
Ugh. Really?! What ever happened to “you do you”?
We are moving to a community property state and well aware of the potential legal issues. Because there are children from previous relationships involved, we want the house to be separate property. And yes, we know all about co-mingling and have experienced the dangers of marrying without a pre-nup.
Wildkitten
Don’t “Ugh.” The question was “why” – and you have a well-thought-out-reason that you hadn’t previously disclosed. You can also always do something like, get engaged now, build the house, get married later. You have a lot of options and you have the input and experience of smart women here.
Anonymous
I think the ugh was more about the tone, which was also my reaction – and I’m not the OP or in anything close to a similar situation.
Scarlett
FWIW, not weird at all – I have a couple of friends who’ve done that (copied an old ring that someone else in the family has the original) & other variants of that idea – everyone in the family uses a similar setting. And as an aunt, I’d be 100% into the idea if one of my nieces wanted to copy any of my rings. I’d be flattered.
L
I could use some advice from those with experience in the non-profit world, particularly as board members.
I am a relatively new employee at a small non-profit; other than the Director, I have the only C-level title. We have a handful of employees, and bring in another few handfuls of “grant-recipients-in-residence” each year.
My question regards what the unstated expectations are for my participation in the annual funds drive. The full list of donors, by donation size category, is published in our annual yearbook. Trustees are required to donate; and I see the Director’s name in the donor lists as well. There have been offhand comments about the Trustees desire to see past grant recipients also become donors. Am I expected to donate? And if so, how much? I would rather like the Trustees to see my name in the lists, but I feel weird getting the standard hand-written thank you note from my boss.
lsw
To be clear, you are a staff member, not a board member? It’s pretty unusual for staff members to be required or even expected to donate to their own organization. It’s not crazy to do so, but I would if you believe in the mission and would be doing it anyway. And I definitely don’t think it would be weird to get the handwritten thank you from your boss, that’s pretty standard.
L
Yes, I am a staff member. judging by the previous yearbook, I’m right at the seniority cutoff point, where people who outrank me donate, and people ranking below me do not. For any number of reasons (mostly putting some weight into that C-level title), I’d like the Trustees and other key people to see me as a member of the “high ranking” group
Anonymous
Actually this is completely wrong. It is considered best practice to donate to the non-profit you work at. The thinking is that if you don’t believe in the cause enough to donate yourself, why would you be asking other people for money or try to spread its message? Many foundations ask for what percentage of staff donates to the organization as well as how much the board donates. There should be 100% staff participation. You don’t have to give a lot, but you should give something. Most non-profits will allow you to donate money out of your paycheck to them. We have a once yearly staff drive and during the on-boarding process everyone is given a donation sheet. Most people give to their own departments or get a basic membership. Other places I have worked have similar requirements.
emeralds
Hell no. I have willingly worked for slave wages at two nonprofits that I believed in. I found it personally and professionally offensive every time they asked me for money. Like, you’re going to pay me $36,000 for a Masters-required, PhD-preferred position in a not-cheap area, AND THEN you’re going to hit me up for donations every quarter? It’s appalling that foundations even look at that. Seriously disgusting that this is somehow a norm.
LiberalLady
+1 its super gross to ask employees who are often payed wages below the poverty line to donate. If you work at a non-profit you don’t have the disposable income to donate.
L
I totally agree with you, but fortunately, that’s not the situation I find myself in. I’m being paid similarly to the last position I held in the for-profit world, about about double what the staff i supervise earn. (Again, their wages are fair, compared to the for-profit world, but I have no expectations for them to donate.)
Anonymous
I have never seen this in all my time in non-profits. People certainly give their time when needed or attend events, but straight up giving a portion of your paycheck?? That doesn’t happen where I am.
Blonde Lawyer
Sadly, I agree that this is the norm. I dislike it. I’m on a non-profit board (volunteer position) and many of our grants require high to near all staff donation participation. That donation can be $5 but there has to be “full participation.” I wish that metric would change because I think it is dumb but it is the expectation at many non-profits.
Anon @ 3:03
Exactly what I was saying. I am not saying that a donation of $5k is required or even expected, but it is 100% the expectation that if you work at a non profit, you should be donating to that cause. Everyone can find $5 in their monthly budget to donate. When I first started in non-profit I was making peanuts and I think I gave something like $2 a paycheck, but how can I ask someone for money, when I myself aren’t giving. It isn’t “gross” to ask your employees to be financially invested as both a donor and an employee in the institution they work at. I’m not expecting a fresh out of college person who is barely making it to sacrifice thousands of dollars to the cause, I am expecting them to care enough about the cause to donate to us as much as they would donate to any other non profit they cared about.
Anonymous
I was diagnosed with PCOS about a year ago. When I was diagnosed, my gyno recommended me a endocrinologist to go see, but didn’t really say why I was supposed to go see her. I set up an appointment and she ran blood tests and told me to lose weight. I was supposed to have a follow up appointment which seemed essentially only to see if I had lost weight, but I canceled it because I really didn’t like her. She pretty much immediately was trying to sell me expensive food supplements (~$400 a month) and froze meals. I am aware of how fat I am, she didn’t really give me any tips on how to lose weight, and frankly reddit has been more helpful with telling me what I should or shouldn’t eat.
Am I missing something? Is there a reason to go to an endocrinologist? I don’t really feel like paying someone $60 a month to tell me I am fat and try to sell me some crash diet. Was this experience wildly different from anyone else who has been diagnosed with PCOS?
Anonymous
Anonymous, I think you may have posted in the wrong place, but I think you can probably get a prescription for metaformin or birth control, which could help you manage symptoms and make weight loss a lot easier If you’re talking to a bunch of women with PCOS on reddit I’m sure they can advise better than I, but I do know that metaformin helped one of my friends. I do think it’s worth it to go to the follow-up to see what medications she can recommend and ignore her diet advice.
L
For Anonymous:
I also have PCOS–it came up during fertility testing, and an endocrinologist was never mentioned. My limited understanding is that there are links between PCOS and insulin resistance, so it would be a smart long-term move to have someone–no reason it couldn’t be your PCP–do some blood work every several years and discuss with you your risks of type 2diabetes. But regular follow ups with an endocrinologist sound like overkill, and your particular endocrinologist definitely sounds sketchy
Anonymous
Anon @ 3:03 – your comment makes a lot of assumptions about how everyone starts in a NFP job. When I first started my salary was so low that a $10 donation would have been the cost of my happy hour beer (the single social thing I could afford each week). Many young people get out of college hugely in debt having been forced into unpaid internships together their professional start and don’t donate anywhere. To limit who works for your org to those who can afford to pay is bad feeling for the organisation and unfair. NFP staff are not volunteers, they are professionals hired for their skills.
bridget
I tend to think that donations (of any amount) are an expected part of those roles. If it’s an issue of finances, people understand when you donate $25 or so. No need for a big, splashy donation.
But it matters to other potential donors (with big money). And it just looks better if your name is on the list.
Anonymous
I work in fundraising at a nonprofit and we NEVER expect anyone on staff to contribute. That is crazy.
Anonymous
I agree that it is definitely considered a best practice/expectation for staff, especially senior staff, to donate, especially in larger non-profits (I work in non-profit fundraising and have been in both small and large orgs). You’ve answered your own question–if the people who are more senior than you do it, and you’d like others to view you as being in that group, then you have to make a donation. FWIW, I think this “best practice” is totally stupid and exploitative, especially at places where people are underpaid. But this is about playing the game–you sound like you have the rules figured out as re: your organization, so go play it and win it.
Susan Erickson
I have 30 years in non-profits under my belt, including work in fundraising, consulting, staff work, teaching, and more. I feel 100% correct in recommending that you donate a small sum–$50.00 would do the trick–so that you are on the list of supporters. People know roughly what you make, and do not expect you to contribute a large sum of money.
If you believe in the cause that your organization supports, making a small gift is a way of showing that you care, and is helpful to the organization in pursuing grants and corporate contributions.
It is annoying to be paid so little as is often the case in the non-profit world, and perhaps is not a wise choice for many people. But, it is always wise to play the game when you are on staff.
SummerAssociate
I’m a summer associate at a v100 firm and was under the impression I would be working with a particular practice based on my background and that I only interviewed with attorneys in that group. There is another summer interested in the same group with comparable experience level/interest. Projects are assigned through a free market system. I’m getting a lot of work and doing well (positive feedback, repeat assignments) but I haven’t had a single project from the practice group I want to work for. In contrast, the other summer has had all of his assignments from that group. I’ve tried networking for projects and attorneys have been friendly in response, but they have told me their group does not assign work to summers, a clear contradiction to what’s currently going on. I talked to recruiting and they advised I slow down for fear of seeming too aggressive or as though I have a single interest. Not that it matters but the summer getting the preferential treatment is a male that is not “aggressive,” but certainly assertive and has gotten coffee with everyone in the practice group and is not really hiding his single interest. I’m three weeks into the 10-week summer and I don’t know how to proceed, but it looks like I will not have the opportunity to work on a single project with the group I wanted to be in. I don’t know how to change it or if this should be a deciding factor for me when/if given an offer.
Anonymous
If they for some reason have decided they want the guy and/or don’t want you, reality is you can’t change their mind or force them to take you. I assume it’s a small enough group that they’ll only take 1 first yr? I honestly think you need to keep doing work for others groups really well so that you get an offer with the firm at the end. Sure it would be great if things were fair if you got the group selection you wanted and if recruiting weren’t being sexist by telling the female to slow down and not be aggressive while tacitly implying that the male can do that — BUT that’s not how the world works. Reality is at the end of this, you need an offer from the firm and then you can assess whether to take it or not take it bc it’s with the wrong group or do 3L recruiting. But I promise you 3L recruiting is HARD at all schools and nearly IMPOSSIBLE if you don’t go in with an offer in hand from your summer firm.
Anonymous
I think you should probably follow recruiting’s advice to back off. My experience is that if a summer tells recruiting that they’re not getting work they like, recruiting normally falls all over themselves trying to fix the problem. So if recruiting is basically doing the opposite, i.e. telling you that you’re the problem, my guess is you really do need to cool your jets. Work hard on what you’re given and do your best to get an offer for leverage, but yeah I doubt this is a place you want to work long term. It sounds like there’s some blatant sexism going on. Apply for clerkships and to other firms aggressively at the end of the summer/3L fall.
Anonymous
Impressions at firms are formed REALLY early and REALLY hard to change. Who knows. Maybe that group is sexist. Maybe the dude uncle’s best friend is a partner in that group. Maybe you annoyed them with your eagerness or your shoes or whatever. Maybe recruiting/the hiring committee is thinking — how DARE she complain about the work she’s getting, does she know how many 2Ls would LOVE to be summers here right now. This is one of those — keep your head down and work hard and appear grateful for everything you’re getting — situations, so that you get the offer at the end. Then you can leverage that offer into another one (hopefully) at another firm where you can work in your practice group of choice. But without that offer it will be a uphill climb bc you will have to be justifying in every interview why you summered at this firm but have no offer. And other firms automatically use that as license to assume that you did something wrong and pass on you. This was true back in my day when the economy was really good, so I imagine it’s doubly true now.
SummerAssociate
Replying to all 3 comments here, but I think you are all right, I’m definitely trying to keep my head down but enthusiasm up. This whole summer is an interview, and they’re judging my work product just as much as they’re judging how I respond to being told “no” here. I also recognize my position both in the situation and at the firm; even if I am justified in being upset, any attempt to fix it would come off as entitled. It’s just gotten to the point of awkwardness when my partner mentor told me about a project he wanted me to do at our one-on-one lunch and then gave it to the other summer outside of the project management system (so purposefully gave it to only him). I thought I was being dumb by still being enthusiastic with these pretty overt slights (also awkward HH chat between me, attorney who said they don’t assign projects to summers, and the other summer currently working on a project for him) but I’m thinking now that it can only look bad if I bring attention to it.
Anonymous
Yeah these people are being unfair and lying, but honestly that happens a LOT in biglaw. I mean wait until you get to senior associate level about to make partner (if you want to) — they have NOOOO problem saying to you privately “oh yes I am DEFINITELY supporting you for partner,” and then turning around the next day and saying in a partner meeting “eh — she’s ok for partnership but I’d rather not vote for her.” So if they can do that to an associate who has worked for them night and day for 8 yrs, they have ZERO problem being unfair to a summer associate who they have known for 8 min.
Get what you need here — an offer from the firm. Then make your decisions re whether you can live with another practice area or not.
anon 8th year in biglaw
Yep. Welcome to biglaw. Frankly, I find it rather ridiculous that the summer associates get so fixated on only one group because it’s “their passion” or something. Ours are making some comments on these lines too. To all of them and you, I say:
1) you have no idea what your passion is. You’ve never practiced law.
2) we don’t actually care what your passion is. The firm and its partners have certain needs and the only relevant question from the firm’s point of view is do you slot into where we have a need? That need includes not only resume qualifications but personality fit because happy partners are productive partners. This is a business.
3) Life is not fair. Get over it. This job, this salary, are a massive privilege. You should be treated with respect so this lying is bs (but not abnormal), but I don’t care what practice group you want to go into. They’re telling you what’s up without actually saying the words. Pay attention to what they’re trying to tell you.
The only exceptions are tax LLMs and patent-qualified litigators, who are directly slotted into their specialized areas. The rest of us are entirely fungible in the firm’s eyes.
Anonymous
This sounds like a really awful situation. There’s certainly a lot of sexism in large law firms but some of the things that have happened to you sound beyond the pale, especially being given a project over lunch and then having it taken away. I suspect there is more to this story than just run-of-the-mill sexism, like maybe the male summer has a family member who is really important to the firm. In the meantime keep your head down, work hard and think how good it will feel when you reject them instead of the other way around.
Anon A3
What area? I think you’re over reacting and one of the biggest traps I see is Summers trying to compete with each other.
Tetra
This varies by firm, of course, but I summered in one group, and now do about 80% of my work for a different group. Staffing needs change over the year-plus between being a 2L summer and beginning your first year of work, so the people you work for now may not be the people you work for forever. It could be that the group really likes the other guy, or it could be that his parent is a client, or some other reason you don’t know about. Continue to do good work and act professional and friendly, and as other commenters have said, try to keep your options open.
Anonymous
I think you’ve gotten good advice above. I would also suggest trying to work for as many groups as possible to see if any other types of practices appeal to you, and to ensure you get an offer. I am currently a senior associate at the firm where I summered. I ended up getting an offer from the group I wanted to work for, and for which I did most of my work during my summer. But then I graduated during the recession and was given the option of being deferred for a year and then joining my desired group or switching to another group (for which I had done one assignment as a summer than apparently impressed the managing partner of the practice group). I switched because of massive student loans, and it was the best decision I ever made. I love my group, love my practice, and am going to make partner next year. I occasionally do work with the group I wanted to join and hate it, and I certainly would not make partner if I were in that group due to rampant sexism. So that’s a long way of saying keep an open mind and keep your options open, and it may be for the best that you are learning about these issues now before you sign on the dotted line.
Anonymous
In addition to sexism (which is a very real thing in biglaw, I’m not discounting), it is possible that there is a business reason why this group MUST take this guy. It does happen more than you think that the guy’s parent or uncle or grandfather or someone is a GC or a higher up in some company that is a huge client of the firms or is a judge or something like that; then that guy makes an overture to the group and/or to recruiting that this is the ONLY group he wants and his parent/uncle/grandparent follows up with a “John is SO excited to be working in your energy group” and lo and behold the energy group dept head or sometimes even the chair of the law firm tells its partners that their 1 first yr associate spot MUST go to John whether they want him or not.
That may actually go along with their thinking of “we have no work for summers” — bc in their mind, they have no work for summers EXCEPT John.
Spent 8 yrs in biglaw and was actually naïve to how often it was the case that associates were connected to firms in indirect ways — i.e. they weren’t getting special treatment bc daddy worked there, but they WERE getting special treatment bc whatever daddy offered wherever he worked was VERY important to the firm.
MJ
I mean this kindly, but welcome to the wonderful and often unfair and political world of biglaw. This is not the greatest, but there will be plenty of time to see if things change this summer. In the meantime, I would work my tail off to get an offer, make sure you drop your resume for any 3L hiring, do some stealth reaching out to other firms that you had offers with but turned down and see if you can’t interview with them in August. If you are wholly committed to that practice area but are getting stonewalled, take the learning you can from a not perfect situation and stealthily try to set yourself up for success.
I agree that this is likely not sexism but much more likely to be a “friends and family” situation or even that the partner couldn’t distinguish between you and the other summer and that partner “mistakenly” gave the assignment to the other summer. I also know many practice groups that officially do not give summer assignments, but might give small assignments to kids that sit near them/on their floor or something like that. So it might be an “unofficial” thing outside the normal policy. Unfair assignments really do happen all the time in biglaw, and if you are not clicking with the group you had hoped to be in, well…take that for what it is and knock it out of the park with what you do get. You need an offer to show to other places, so get that offer.
Good luck…I know it is hard not to dwell on it, but really, you just gotta move to Plan B for now.
Anon
A question about character and fitness: would a history of clinical depression disqualify me? What if it’s been managed without incident for years? Would ADHD, similarly managed? What about being a recovering alcoholic with years of sobriety? This is specific to NY/NJ. Thanks.
Bonnie
No personal experience, but can’t imagine that it would. These are all very common conditions so should be fine so long as you answer all questions honestly and they’re truly managed.
anon
NOPE.
Dry laugh….that’s most of us.
Also, generally nothing “disqualifies” you… except lying on your C&F exam. Srsly.
Anon
I had no issues with character and fitness and I disclosed my DUI (even though it had been expunged) and that I was involuntarily committed. I was licensed in three states at one point in time. You’ll be fine.
Anon
VA admitted me with no issues, FWIW.
California
Gosh, if that was all it took to disqualify an attorney for character and fitness, there would be a lot fewer lawyers around. At least in CA, they are more worried about felonies and financial crimes like embezzlement and fraud.
Honestly, I’d call the bar association and ask. The CA bar is very helpful in this area and can tell you how to structure your concerns in the application. They might request a letter from your therapist/mental health provider or an AA sponsor.
Anon Pros
Not NY/NJ, but am licensed in two states, including VA which has similar character requirements.
I have a history of clinical depression and anxiety, and had to disclose it, but it presented no issues whatsoever. Like the situation you describe, my mental health had been managed without incident for several years.
No advice re: a history of alcoholism, but I would imagine it’s the same kind of deal as the mental health question.
OP
This makes me feel better, thanks for your responses. For those of you that experienced these things before attending law school, did you disclose any of this on your law school application? How detailed would such a disclosure be?
Anon
Anon at 2:45 p.m. here. I disclosed whatever was relevant to what they asked – it has been a while (12 years), so I don’t recall the exact details. I am 99% sure I disclosed my DUI. Now, I didn’t get into a super pretigious law school, but that was due to my LSAT scores, not my disclosures.
Anon Pros
My mental health diagnosis occurred at the start of college, and I’ve been able to manage well with meds and therapy as-needed.
I was not terribly detailed in my disclosures. IIRC, my disclosure was roughly six sentences long. I noted the approximate time in my life when the diagnosis was made, the treatment I was receiving currently, and that I had never suffered any effects professionally or scholastically due to the diagnosis. VA did request a note from my treating physician at the time to verify that I was presently stable and that there were no concerns regarding my ability to cope with typical work environments, etc.
I also have a friend who had a history of depression, but her diagnosis was related to a specific event in her life prior to law school, and she no longer required treatment. Her disclosure, from our conversations about it, was also short. She explained why she had received treatment without going into great detail, what the treatment had consisted of, and that she was released by her doctor/therapist after the root cause had resolved.
Hope that helps.
Anon
KY required a letter from my psychiatrist to similar effect – stable, treatment working, no concerns about ability to cope with practice of law, etc. Was admitted. Will possibly apply to another state bar soon, and noted that they have similar requirements.
SC
I don’t recall law school applications asking directly about a history of mental health or addiction. If that’s still true, I would not volunteer the information. If there is a question about mental health, I would say something extremely brief and factual. If you have previous misdemeanors, DUIs, etc., as a result of the mental health issues, do not lie on your law school application because you’ll have to disclose on character and fitness, and they should be consistent.
Anonymous
Recently went through the C&F process.
There are multiple instances of convicted felons, murderers, the like being admitted. Truly the issue is if you lie on your application. Even then, sometimes people get admitted.
The law school application question depends on your state. For states where it’s an issue, most schools let you amend your application.
I’d recommend contacting the lawyers help association in your state anonymously, then your school if applicable.
Good luck!
Sydney Bristow
I had a history of clinical depression and it wasn’t an issue at all with my character and fitness exam in NY.
Dulcinea
In my experience they are mainly looking for the types of crimes that suggest you would steal money from clients. There was a story a couple years ago about a lawyer who got caught snorting coke in the bathroom of the courthouse during recess in a trial he was working on, and all the Bar did was suspend him for a few months.
Anon for this
Lawyers Concerned for Lawyers can give you great confidential advice about this issue of disclosure, as they did for me many years ago when I was making almost exactly the same decision.
Wildkitten
Nope.
Anonymous
So admittedly it’s been a while since I looked at a bar application, and I’ve never applied to NY or NJ, but is this even something they can ask? I thought asking about medical history was a big no no?
Anon
Unfortunately, yes. It’s standard for most states because of the “of sound mind” and “competent representation” part of lawyering and it’s a huge issue in the legal profession. A lot of law students and young lawyers (myself included) will avoid getting help knowing that they will have to disclose it. There has been some movement to narrow the questions/make it more clear that a diagnosis or treatment won’t necessarily impact the applicant, but it’s not negating the stigma of having the question there.
Annonny
Am I terrible person for enjoying gawking at the FedSmith pay table that confirms I make more than my self-proclaimed-super-entitled-always-complaining male coworker? I hope not.
Anonymous
No way! Great job, lady.
Anonymous
Sometimes I wonder if there’s something wrong with me. I’m 31, never been in love, never been in a serious relationship. And I have no real desire to pursue those things. I’ve dated, had lots of s3x and fun, but when I think of slogging through online dating for the sake of finding a husband I just feel…completely meh. I have lots of friends, a job I enjoy, I’m not ugly, not socially awkward, I just feel like a freak for not dating anyone. I wish I was normal like my friends who are all engaged/married/pregnant. It seems to come so easily to them.
Anonymous
I don’t think it comes easily to anyone (I’m married with kids fwiw).
Is it a fear of rejection that is preventing you from putting yourself out there as open and available for long term commitment?
OP
Oh, probably. I admit there’s a lot of insecurity at play here. I’ve been rejected quite harshly in the past. But truthfully, I do very much enjoy my alone time and the thought of having to share my time/space with a boyfriend is a little overwhelming.
Anon
I love my alone time. My BF knows this. We have recently decided to live together. We’ll see how it goes when we move soon! haha. I would have never guessed this is what I wanted until I met him. I got more and more used to him as time went on “in my space” and now it feels totally normal and lovely. We are both very busy people though so he is often not around. I run a lot and that gives me alone time. It might just be you need time to adjust- no rushing needed.
I totally hear you on the going on 50 million bad dates in hopes of finding one. It’s terrible (I did it…although I only went on dates when I was excited, not when it felt like a chore). People who haven’t been through it don’t get it.
anon
“And I have no real desire to pursue those things.”
and
“I wish I was normal like my friends who are all engaged/married/pregnant.”
Wut? If you don’t want them, then why do you wish you were “normal like your friends?” These sentences don’t add up to me.
Are you worried about not fitting in? FOMO?
Or just being seen as “different?” If that’s the case, then rejoice! There is no normal, and it is more than totally cool not to be married or have kids.
Sydney Bristow
Nothing wrong with you. You’re not obligated to seek or even want a life partner.
I remember feeling weird that I was 28 and had never been in a serious relationship or fallen in love. The truth is that although I may have wanted that in the abstract, I really didn’t want that in the real day to day life sense. It’s really fine to feel that way though.
Ellen
Yay! Open Thread’s! I love Open thread’s and these earring’s! Great choice Kat and Kate!!!
As for the OP, there is nothing wrong with not being into dateing for a marrage partner UNLESS you are lookeing to have a BABY like me and do NOT want to have to work. THAT is the ONLEY reason to want to have a man. You can alway’s find a man to huff and puff but what is the big deal other then having to wash the sheet’s. NADA, thank you very much, I do NOT need a guy to soil my sheet’s and batheroom. FOOEY!
As I said, men are good for paying the bills, and that is IT. When my Alan proved useless in that regard, I tossed him and have NOT realy looked back. In your case, you sound well rounded and really do NOT need a man unless you want to have a FAMILY with him. Nowaday’s you can even buy some sperm from a bank and totally avoid haveing to deal with a guy slobbering all over the place after you go to bed with him. Isn’t tecknology GREAT? I am thinkeing of doeing this b/c my egg’s are not getting any fresher! But that is expensive. FOOEY!
Happy weekend to the entire HIVE, as well as Kat and Kate! YAY!!!!
CountC
Hi! *Waves*
I’m in my mid-30s, and while I have been in relationships that would be considered serious (living together), there is only one where I at the time I thought it was love. I realize now that it was more likely to have been lust – I can’t know for sure because doesn’t love feel and look different for everyone? Regardless, you are not alone! I’ve dated, I’ve had my fair share of $ex, but I have reached a point where I no longer desire to seek out a partner. I am not under any illusion that my friends relationships or family lives are easy though. They all have their struggles, even the good relationships between people who are very much in love! I have found that for me, the life I am living currently – running when I want and how long I want, riding when I want, having as many pets as I want, leaving my house however I want, vacationing by myself, etc – is really working for me! I am happy, relaxed, and calm. I may feel differently in the future, but I don’t feel any pressure to force myself to feel that way. It’s pretty liberating actually. FWIW, I am the only single one in my two main groups of close friends – the majority are seriously paired or married, and about 1/3 have kids at this point with several more trying.
OP
Thank you so much for chiming in. I largely feel the same way you do, very content. This summer is particularly bad in terms of bridal showers/bachelorettes/weddings though, so I guess attending all these events is making me a little sensitive. I keep asking myself, to quote Mindy Kaling, why not me?
emeralds
My mom has been happily flying solo since 1988. She says she realized she only ever wanted men that were disastrous for her, and that she was happiest focusing on herself, her immediate family, her career, her hobbies, and her pets. She’s a gorgeous, class-act lady who has not visibly aged since like…2000 (praying for her skin genes), and she gets asked out a fair amount, but always turns them down because she is just not interested. She has a full, happy, and well-lived life. You do you, ladies.
CountC
I’m late to respond, but to answer Mindy’s question for me personally, it’s because I have chosen the things that I KNOW make me happy instead of the things that, historically, have proved to be painful, exhausting, draining, etc. (relationships). I dated one really good guy, but he wasn’t the really good guy for me. Is it me? Maybe. Am I attracted to men who are bad for me like emeralds mom? Probably. Do I care that I am single? Nope. Is getting married something I feel like I have to do? Absolutely not.
January
Also, I think Mindy Kaling meant the question in a more positive way — why NOT me, instead of why not ME. I guess in the dating context, that could mean get back out there – but if you don’t want to, or you’re happy being single, then why shouldn’t you be happy just the way you are?
anonymous
I feel similarly to both of you about doing what I want when I want and not being inconvenienced by having someone else around. I am married, but I never really sought out a relationship-it kind of fell in my lap. We’ve actually built a marriage on each of us doing what we want with minimal input from the other person in most cases. Right now we’re living in different states. I think it’s possible that you could find someone where the having another person around is a minimal imposition on your life and you still get to enjoy all the fruits of having a relationship with someone. But if that doesn’t happen or if you don’t want it, it’s not weird at all. If this relationship hadn’t fallen in my lap, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t care one iota about men and dating.
Anon
Some people never feel romantic desires – look up aromanticism, it might be helpful
eyes
I’m you! EXCEPT….. I don’t feel like a freak, and I no longer wish I was “normal” like my other married friends. If some of them don’t feel comfortable with me, that’s their loss. Half of them are divorced, another half of the marrieds are unhappy. Who’s to say what makes a good life? I don’t want those lives….
You know, you don’t have to live like everyone else.
I am 46 now. When I was 35, I had more doubts/insecurities like you.
You’ll get through this. Just keep moving, and be open.
And btw…. to Anon @ 4:34. ?Aromanticism? Really…. Where the heck to you get that.
X
I’m 45 and I’m the same. I’m happy. I like being able to make plans on the spur of the moment. Friends invite me up skiing for the weekend? Sure, I’ll go. I have no interest in a boyfriend. I don’t want the drama. I have a social life, but I’m also an introvert and I like my alone time.
I do love kids, but I have nieces and nephews whom I adore and my friends have kids, too.
Anonymous
I’m younger, haven’t actually dated much beyond one relationship. I think I’d like to in the future, but honestly, my life is busy and fairly full already. We’ll see but I think it’s healthy! Better to be content on your own if that’s what you want than unhappy trying to fit into a mold you think you should.
Character, Not Health
Neither depression nor ADHD have anything to do with your character. Alocholism might be different, depending on the situation (if it ever resulted in harming someone, significant mismanagement of money, an arrest, etc).
More importantly, if you have suffered from depression and alcoholism, are you sure you want to practice law?
Character, Not Health
Sorry for this misplaced post!
OP
Alcoholism has nothing to do with character, it’s a disease that I’m treating. I understand where you’re coming from though. I have never physically harmed anyone while drunk, nor have I made any work related errors as a result. There haven’t been any professional consequences that I would have to explain.
Wildkitten
I hear you. But the character and fitness person doesn’t know you. That person knows their alcoholic cousin who stole, or their alcoholic neighbor who drove drunk, or their alcoholic roommate who lied. Their depressed cousin/neighbor/roommate slept all day. So the character person might ask you about alcoholism, and you should be prepared to answer, because they want to make sure you are not a problem, and it sounds like you have good answers. Character not health was giving you good insight even if it wasn’t ideally phrased.
Trish
You need to call an attorney who represents people in bar grievances and discuss this issue. Every state is different.
TOS
They can ask about items like depression and alcoholism, so they know that candidates are taking care of themselves. But do not discriminate because of an unsupported opinion. Most people with treated mental illnesses do just fine in their chosen careers, and when it comes to diagnosed disability, tend to be in more regular communication with health professionals than those who are not.
Live and let live.
Anon
Not everyone’s cut out to be married. That’s gotten lost in our society, but has always been true. Nothing wrong with it at all.
frizzy curly-ish hair
Happy Friday! Seeking advice from the hive, especially anyone with thick South Indian hair. I do not know anything about hair styling. Mine is frizzy/curly/wavy in the humidity, which I love, but I would like to learn how to tame it every once in a while to wear it straight or with an intentional wave. What drugstore products should I use, and what kind of hairdryer and/or straightener should I buy?
Currently use Head&Shoulders and a Wella leave-in conditioner. That’s it.
I’d like to get this down to a quick routine. One problem is that I prefer to shower at night, but if I go to bed with wet hair, I wake up with tight curls and it never looks right no matter how much I then try to brush it or restyle.
Arghh….
frizzy curly-ish hair
Sorry — also looking for tips on the actual process of drying/straightening. Hair stylists always seem to work magic, but I can never reproduce their results.
ELS
Do not brush your curly hair. I repeat: DO NOT BRUSH YOUR CURLY HAIR.
Dry brushing will result in a frizzy mess.
My hair is wavy/curly, and in the summer I do the following if I want to straighten, after washing and conditioning: towel dry hair so it is damp. Use a dime to quarter sized amount of an anti-humidity serum (I’m cheap, so I currently use a garnier milk). Then use a heat protectant (also Garnier for me). I then blow dry, sometimes with a round brush, otherwise with a paddle brush. This gets my hair mostly straight. I then use clips to flat iron in sections.
If I do this at night, i can usually sleep on my (dry, straight) hair and only need to touch up in the morning.
Anonymous
Oh my goodness. I don’t think anyone could possibly cover everything you need to know about hairstyling in a comment, but I’ll take a stab at it. Read beauty blogs, read magazines, ask hair stylists for advice. Do your research. Youtube tutorials are amazing resources for learning new techniques.
STOP using Head & Shoulders regularly!! I think I just had heart palpitations. That’s making your frizziness/dryness worse. I’m not a fan of drugstore shampoo/conditioner in general. They are full of harsh detergents, and silicones that leave residue on your hair. Unfortunately finding the best shampoo/conditioner is trial and error. I love buying products at Sephora because they have a great return policy – you can return something even if you’ve used it. Read the reviews on the Sephora website and other websites to help narrow down the best products for your hair type.
For wearing hair curly, you need a diffuser attachment for your blowdryer. That allows you to blowdry curls without messing them up.
CHI, GHD, and Babyliss all make great hair tools (dryers, flat irons, curling irons).
Anonymous
Also, you won’t be able to replicate a hair stylist’s results if you’re a complete newbie, and that’s okay. There’s no magic product or tool that will help you get salon-perfect hair, unfortunately. It simply takes a lot of practice.
ELS
Co-sign re: head and shoulders and a diffuser.
I do use silicones in the summer now, but like Anon, for a long, long time, when I was wearing my hair wavy (I don’t as much anymore b/c of the upkeep involved for my particular head of hair), I was silicone and sulfate-free.
Naturallycurly.com has some great boards for recommendations on styling your hair in its natural state. It’s called “CurlTalk”: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/ I was active there when I was first figuring out how to manage my hair, but haven’t really poked around there in years.
Anonymous
Never, ever, ever brush curly hair!!
Amberwitch
How do you untangle it, then? And even more important, how do you make it look neat and unfrizzy?
I have long wavy hair, which I’ve never learned how to manage – except for french braiding.
At this point I think that looking polished is relevant at work, but I really don’t know how to make my hair behave. When I brush it, it gets all fluffy, when I don’t, it is frizzy and looks kind of unkept.
Don’t blow dry or use product (except for conditioner when I wash it) and don’t know how to either – the blow drying isn’t really an option either, but product might be if I knew what and how.
Stormtrooper
Use a large tooth comb on towel dried wet hair. Then apply a product. If you’re just getting started try something simple and not too expensive like garnier curl cream. Then air dry or use a blow dryer with a diffuser attachment. Spray with hair spray or spray gel lightly after its dry to control frizz.
Do NOT brush your hair with a brush or comb it when it’s dry ever.
Do not wash your hair every day with shampoo. If you must get your hair wet, use conditioner only.
Do not use head and shoulders. Try to find something sulfate free but if you’re sticking with drug store products use something like Pantene or garnier products specific for curly hair.
Anonymous
Tresemme Botanique Nourish and Replenish conditioner is silicone free and available at the drugstore. It makes my curly hair smooth and shiny, although I still have frizz issues, especially in the summer.
In terms of brushing, I never brush my hair at all other than with my fingers in the shower. Even if I haven’t washed my hair in a few days its always easy to get my fingers through my hair with conditioner in the shower.
An
Some salons offer blowout classes – that may be something to look into. Even if it’s not on their regular service list, I imagine your hairstylist would be open to teaching you.
Anonymous
South Indian here, and my mum and sis have your hair type.
DO NOT BRUSH OR COMB IT.
Use curl cream ( I love L’oreal kerastase curl cream) and let it air dry. My mum and sis have lovely curls if they do this but they somehow cannot survive without brushing it.
You can do a curly updo if it’s long enough.
Anonymous
Highly recommend Moroccan Oil hair products or Living Proof.
Do not brush or comb your hair, ever. Maybe with wide tooth detangler in the shower.
Experiment with curl cream, lots of it.
– South Indian ( I have soft wavy hair but mum and sis have frizzy wavy/curly hair)
Mia
Does anyone watch the Good Wife? on Season 3 and so far its okay but *spoiler alert* the tension so far after Peter and Alicia seperated is infuriating!
I am so tempted to read spoilers!
Mia
OH and the guy that plays Peter.. Same guy as Big in Sex and the City……
*clears throat*
Yes.
TGW
I wouldn’t post here if you’re worried about spoilers given that season 7 (and the series) just ended!
Anonymous
Enjoy. Seasons 1-5 are so good and then it really went down the toilet.
Anon
YES. I faithfully watched seasons 1-5 and then fell from watching the show because I lost so much interest. Haven’t really heard or read how it turned out, so I may need to watch the final two seasons (or, hey binge watch the entire series)…
Anonymous
Don’t bother. It was awful. There was no more romantic tension surrounding Alicia despite the introduction of various male leads and the wonderful actors who played Kalinda, Diane and Cary were relegated to bit parts that were so far beneath them and a waste of their talents. It’s one of the worst declines of a once great show I’ve ever seen. I really think it was only partly due to the loss of a certain actor, although that certainly didn’t help. Julianna Margulies is a diva and her fixation on giving herself Emmy-worthy material (and her refusal to film with Archie Panjabi) destroyed the show.
MJ
Also due to the fact that the co-showrunner committed suicide by jumping off the Vincent Thomas Bridge in Long Beach, CA. :(
Little Red
Ooh, yes, that whole thing with Archie Panjabi was bizarre. It was so blatantly obvious that Margulies and Panjabi weren’t in the same room when they filmed Alicia and Kalinda’s final scene. Wonder what happened there?
Anonymous
Margulies was reportedly jealous of the critical attention Panjabi received. I think Panjabi won an Emmy first or won more Emmys or something. Margulies was a producer, so Panjabi got bad storylines and was eventually phased out and the two women didn’t film together.
I generally don’t give a lot of weight to tabloid gossip especially of the “these two women hate each other” variety but something was obviously up after they went so long without sharing a scene and then had an obviously green-screened scene. Plus, Margulies blamed the green screen on Panjabi’s schedule and commitment to another project but Panjabi responded on Twitter that she was available and willing to film the scene together, so it was pretty obviously Margulies who refused to film.
X
Yup. I stopped watching after Kalinda got the boot. She was my favorite character…
X
Sorry for posting twice. I miss the edit button…
But, seriously, suck it up! The rest of us have to work with people we don’t like and we do it every day – not just for 22 episodes. Plus, we don’t get paid nearly as much as Juliana Margulies!
Anonymous2
Loved 1-5. Loved Kalinda and Cary. Don’t read press so didn’t know about any diva issues but really sad that the good episodes had to end after 5.
Tipping for a hair correction
If you went back a few days after your initial appt to have your stylist fix your color, would you tip her again?
Anonymous
Nope.
NYNY
No, but I’d tip the assistant who shampoos me.
Tipping for a hair correction
It’s a small salon, the stylist shampoos me herself. Still no tip?
Wildkitten
You tipped her the first time? Not obligated.
anne-on
Since we were talking a while back about ways to keep on top of housework/life stuff, I thought I’d toot my own horn – ‘Future me’ (hungover Sunday morning me after a good friend’s wedding on Saturday) will super appreciate that ‘Current me’ has already done this weekend’s laundry so I can look forward to the partying with a clear conscience!
New Tampanian
Good job!
PBD
Hi all! Just found out we are pregnant with our first (yay!), and therefore soliciting any and all general pregnancy-related advice! I am still adjusting to the loss of sushi, my normal amounts of caffeine, and deli meat/unpasteurized cheese… I will be 34 at the time of our estimated due date. In particular I am pre-diabetic (due to genetics/family history on both sides) so that is an area of concern for me and I’m working closely with my endocrinologist. First appt/ultrasound with OB isn’t until July 7 so in the meantime I’m trying not to google myself into overanxiety and thought I would reach out to the wonderful ladies here for recommendations/advice. We are also starting to explore daycare options in the west LA/Culver City area, so if anyone has recos to share that would be wonderful (we will need to put the baby in daycare around 6-7 months). Thanks in advance!
L
Read “Expecting Better.” Definitely good for not panicking needlessly
Anonymous
I live in Culver City. When we moved here four years ago (with an 11 month old) we discovered there are very few daycare centers — most people use in-home day care or have a nanny. Not to scare you, but we were on waitlists for 2 years. We had used a daycare center in the city where we lived before and that was our preferred form of childcare. So, we ended up sending my child to a daycare center on the east side (where my spouse works) until preschool, and now go to a lovely preschool in Culver.
I did your a lovely in-home daycare near Century City and can dig up the name of that would interest you.
PBD
Oy — 2 years! That would be fabulous re the Century City daycare — thank you!
Anonymous
It was Century City Kids Club — it is much nicer in person than it looks from the pics on Yelp — and was by far the cleanest in-home daycare I saw when I was looking (I am sure there are others that are good, but, as I mentioned we preferred a center so I stopped looking when a spot opened up).
The peachhead listserv the other poster mentioned is a good resource for getting feedback and recommendations from other parents on childcare. I’ve both gotten recommendations and respond to questions about our current school. There are also lots of nanny recs and sometimes people looking to arrange nanny shares.
MME
Hi, I live in West LA and there are a lot of supportive groups to join and to ask questions about daycare etc:
Online Communities:
Mommy2Mommy facebook group
http://www.peachheadfamilies.com/ (e-mail thread)
Places:
The Well Baby Center in Mar Vista has play groups, mom groups, and counseling for all family concerns (I think it was founded by the wife of Matt Groening, Simpsons cartoon)
http://www.wellbabycenter.org/mama-tent-well-baby-center-0#Mindful%20preg
The moving joint across the street has pre-natal yoga classes
http://themovingjoint.com/services/pre-post-natal-2/
Another place with prenatal yoga and new mom support groups in El Segundo:
http://www.happybabyla.com/
Yoga vista also has a great pre-natal yoga class in Playa Vista:
http://www.yogavista.com/classes–pricing.html
With the website Le Tote you can rent maternity clothes (three items and 2 accessories at a time, works the same way as Netflix)
I don’t know if you will give birth at UCLA or St Johns or somewhere else, but I do know that St Johns has a breastfeeding support group for new moms that gave birth there that meets on Fridays. That is a good way to meet moms in the West LA area and ask about daycare, form stroller walking groups, etc.
For advice: drink a lot of water, eat breakfast with protein in it, prenatal yoga helps with stress. When I was pregnant I became anemic a few months before the due date even though I took prenatal vitamins, so I took Mega Food Blood Builder supplements from Whole Foods along with magnesium citrate and the anemia went away.
I know someone who hired Giuditta Tornetta as a post-partum doula (someone who comes over after the birth to help/give tips on caring for a newborn and she also cooks) because she didn’t have any local family to help her. http://www.yelp.com/biz/joy-in-birthing-marina-del-rey
A family member is watching my one-year-old so I don’t have much advice about daycares. Congratulations!
PBD
Thank you for all this advice and specific recos!
Seventh Sister
Yay Culver City! Local Corporettes! Wish I could help more with daycares, but when I looked around, I couldn’t really find a daycare center in my (East CC) neighborhood, so I would up commuting with the kids to a center near my office. I have some friends that love New World Montessori but their kids started there as toddlers. Waitlists in general are pretty long, so it’s good you are looking now. There is more choice/availability for toddler care/preschool – I liked Village Tree when I toured it, but then my kid wound up getting into a public preK program. Also have friends whose kids adored Pacifica Montessori.
Personally, I don’t think Peachhead is very helpful – lots of meanies and weirdos and playing favorites. The Peachhead nanny group seems more helpful, but I had better luck finding sitters through friends and care dot com.
I delivered at Cedars once (which I didn’t really like) and once at Good Sam (which I loved).
Also, I had sushi at Masu and K-Zo when I was pregnant and my kids are totally fine.
Seventh Sister
The Culver-Palms Y has nice baby-swim classes in an indoor pool (the Plunge can be cold) which are not super-expensive.
I would not stress about elementary schools at all/yet. If you live within Culver City proper, all of the elementary schools are excellent, and many of the LAUSD elementary schools in the area are also excellent.
Not sure if they do it anymore, but I went to prenatal yoga at Yoga West in Pico Robertson. It was really nice and practically the only weekend prenatal yoga class I could find.
Implants
Has anyone ever gotten Bre*st implants?
I’m done pregnancy/nursing. I’ve always been on the smaller side and have thought about it for a long time but wanted to be finished having kids first. It seems like silicone gives a better result but is riskier. Any suggestions for reading to help make the decision for/against or saline/silicone? I’m a bit overwhelmed by all the information online. Would I really have to get them replaced every 10 years?
anon
I got silicone ones when I was 22. I’m 30 now and I assume they are fine (I think I’m supposed to get an MRI at some point to confirm, but my OBBYN didn’t seem concerned when I mentioned it to her last month). I went with silicone because surgeon said they were more natural. And they’re awesome. My plan is to have them replaced after I have kid(s) to kind of kill two birds with one stone (fresh implants, plus a lift if needed).
Implants
How did you decide on size and surgeon? So hard to know who to pick and worried I will end up too large.
Midwest Mama
I got saline implants about 10 1/2 years ago, so as to whether you have to replace them every 10 years, you don’t. You only have to replace them if one leaks or something else goes wrong with them. When I got mine, the trend seemed to be more towards saline and away from silicone but I think it’s shifted back to silicone these days. I’ve had a kid and bre@stfed with no problems with mine also, although that’s not a concern for you. The recovery time was no big deal and there wasn’t much pain, it was more like really bad soreness from working out across the chest area. The biggest drawback for me was the inability to wear a br@ for several weeks afterwards. Luckily it was wintertime when I got mine, so I could hide under sweaters at work. I had my surgery on a Tuesday and took the rest of the week off but was back to work the following Monday with no problems. I think the best advice is to go see a cosmetic surgeon. My office does free consultations, and my surgeon actually refused to operate on a friend of mine because her upper body is so small that he said implants would not look good on her. They will be able to give you the best advice as to what type, size, etc.
Implants
Thanks – this is really helpful. Did you visit more than one surgeon’s office to get opinions or get a surgeon recommendation from a friend? I don’t know anyone (that I know of) personally who has had it done.
Claire
I got cohesive silicone 3 years ago which was the general recommendation at the time (not sure if it’s changed since). I found my surgeon after reading a local PS forum for a few months, making a list, and visiting three to decide. The surgeon I went with specialises in reconstruction, lectures at the best university in my city, and operated out of a major private hospital, so while he was the most expensive option, I knew he prioritised a natural look and I felt like it was worth the extra few thousand dollars for someone I felt comfortable with.
I was told that while I should have a MRI after 10 years they shouldn’t need to be replaced for at least 15, but that’s based on older ‘technology’, and at this stage they don’t know how long implants can last, so they could theoretically last a lifetime.
For what it’s worth, I wish I went slightly bigger, as do most others I’ve spoken to. I got mine in my late 20s, no kids yet, and planning to have them redone if/when I finish breastfeeding and go bigger at that stage.
Implants
Thanks. This is very helpful especially on how to find a surgeon.
Emmabean
I’m the opposite – I went too big. I’m a 34D, which doesn’t sound too big but I’m a small person and when I see pictures of myself, I’m always surprised by how big I look. I told my surgeon I wanted Cs and she convinced me to go bigger bc she thought I didn’t really know what a C was. One day I will get them redone smaller. Otherwise have had them 8 years without any issues. silicon. So my biggest piece of advice is think hard about the size!
WWYD?
I work a small/medium-sized company. I’m widely regarded as one of the top performers (if not the top) on my team, and I have a great relationship with my boss, who oversees my entire group. I came on as a junior team member 4 years ago and have been promoted twice, so I’m now one of the more mid-level/senior team members (we’re a fairly flat organization) and I manage 4 more junior team members.
My boss was recently asked to come up with salary ranges for two more junior positions, since we’d never really had formal salary expectations in place before. As I manage these two more junior roles, he shared these ranges with me. As we were having this conversation, I mentally compared these ranges to what I made when I worked in those roles. I realized that I’m pretty underpaid, and that I’ve been underpaid for the last four years, despite getting multiple promotions and glowing performance reviews. For example, imagine the range for a position below mine is $10k-$50k, and I make $40k as the manager of that position.
I want to bring this up with my boss, but I don’t want to make him regret sharing this kind of compensation information with me (it’s new for him to do this). Also, I expressed disappointment with my compensation after my first promotion 3 years ago. He was able to get me a slightly higher raise after that, and he let me know that if I continued doing a good job and stuck with the company, my compensation would improve over time. It has (I make more than double what I made when I started four years ago), but I still believe that I’m not making what I should, given my level of responsibility and my performance relative to others on the team.
Any advice? How would you approach this?
Jen
What do salary ranges mean at your company? At mine, someone is extremely unlikely to ever make the top of the range. Our tiers also have a ton of overlap. So in your scenario, I could see it being:
Junior role: 10k-50k
Manage of junior role: 40-65k
Sr manager of junior role: 55-75k
If someone is coming in entry level, they’ll be at the bottom of the tier. Also, you’ve been out of the junior role 4 years, so make sure to mentally adjust for inflation- we do a 3% annual increase so starting base 4 years ago would be less than starting today.
WWYD?
At my firm, it’s definitely possible to be at the top of the range or even above that in rare instances, depending on experience/background/etc. I know this because I have direct reports who are at the top of the range for their respective roles.
Anonymous
Any thoughts on whether non-biglaw firms will raise salaries, in light of NY to 180k, even if they’re nowhere close to market? Any thoughts on the movement to 180k?
I think all biglaw will get to 180 by July 1.
Anonymous
No. I think the top end of biglaw will match and the rest will not. The money isn’t there.
Anonymous
+1 I doubt all Big Law firms will match and certainly don’t think it will affect small or mid-law comp at all.
I also think the whole thing is ridiculous. First years aren’t worth $160, let alone $180. And these insane numbers just contribute to the public’s misconception that all lawyers are rich. I also can’t believe how many people are crowing “Oh it’s long overdue, there hasn’t been a pay raise in 10 years!” There hasn’t been a *per year* pay raise in 10 years. Every single year, associates in Biglaw get pay raises of about 10%, which is waaaay more than most of the rest of the country (including in-house lawyers) gets.
Gail the Goldfish
It also surprises me some were matching for all their offices. It’s one thing for an associate in NYC to be making 180k, but in, say, Houston? (I’d also be mad if I was in NYC and making the same thing as an associate in Houston given the pretty dramatic cost of living difference)
Gail the Goldfish
(Yes, I realize they were all on the same scale before. I thought it was silly then, too)
Anonymous
Yeah matching it in Houston is crazy. When I was in Big Law our firm paid NY-scale for NY, Boston, DC, Chicago and all of our California offices but not the smaller cities that weren’t in CA. You’re always going to do better if you’re not in NY though. $160K goes way farther in Chicago or Boston than it does in NY, and someone making $120K in Minneapolis is probably doing better than any of the people making $160K.
I always found it so annoying when the smaller city people whined about how they were paid less. Like ok, you’re paid $20K a year less, which is $10K a year after taxes, and your house costs $300K and would cost $2 milliion in my city, so um, yeah, I think you’re doing ok.
Anon
+1. When I started in Atlanta, Atlanta was paying 145K and NYC/Chi/Bos/DC/Cali was paying 160K. The cost of living difference is not 15K.
DCR
I totally agree with your point about the salary scale and I’m in biglaw. Lawfirm associates get huge raises each year, a situation which is not normal for america.
My firm has’t matched yet, but I expect it will next week. I doubt the scale will spread to all biglaw, I think it will just create two separate salary scales for biglaw. It will be interesting to see where the break is
California
This. Clients aren’t paying huge bills without questions anymore. A good portion of BigLaw is struggling to make the $160k pay scale and some have even dropped below.
Sydney Bristow
Which is why some firms have switched the litigation grunt work to people like me (who graduated in 2009 or later) and others who were biglaw associates laid off during the crisis. Many of us are working crazy hours. I’m on track to bill almost 3000 hours this year. To be fair, I’m not switching tasks as much so the percentage of my hours in the office that are billed is higher, but 3000 is still crazy. If it hit 3000 I’ll wind up making about $120k. And I don’t get a real biglaw bonus. But my time is billed out cheaper so it benefits the firm.
Emmabean
3000?!? WOW
Wow
Wow. I’ve been out of the Biglaw game for years, and don’t keep tabs on the salary scale since it is irrelevant to me (I’m in-house). I was actually shocked to see this number. That is barely higher than what it was when I started (in 2006!). Apparently Biglaw hasn’t recovered from 2008 very well.
anon
Yup. Found old emails in my firm deciding they needed to go from 135k to 145k in 2007 (we are midlaw/regional biglaw, biglaw market for first years was/is 135k). Now I’m a 3rd year and I’m at 135k, and our first years start probably at 110k.
Anonymous
These numbers make me….. ill.
An early 20’s first year lawyer?!?!
A first year neurosurgeon makes…. 45-50K
Anonymous
It’s a debt, plus a high cost of living thing. Every first year lawyer I know without family money has $100,000-$250,000 of loans.
Anonymous
I graduated with $200k in student loans. My monthly payment is around $3k. As a junior associate, I was expected to be able to come into the office within 20 minutes when called in the middle of the night with no prior notice. If you’re in NYC, that means you can’t live outside of Manhattan, so you’re paying probably $3k/mo for a studio apartment if you’re lucky.
So you’re talking $6k out of pocket before you pay for the lights, groceries, transportation, or any of the “luxuries” that are really necessities when you’re working 100 hour weeks, like takeout/grocery delivery, having a once a month cleaning person, a wash and fold service, or last minute pet sitting when you get shipped to the middle of nowhere for 3 weeks on a doc review.
At $180k, after taxes, insurance, and maxing out 401k, you’re taking home somewhere in the $8k/mo range. So that’s $2k/mp to pay the non-student loan/rent-related bills, luxuries-that-are-necessities, and put away in savings. Not that $2k/mo is terrible, it’s certainly comfortable, but it’s not, OMG SO MUCH MONEY either.
Anonymous
Med students have just as much debt if not more so, though.
Trish
Yeah, it is OMG SO MUCH MONEY. Look at the average salary of the population in this country.
Anonymous
First, the average American doesn’t have an advanced degree that required them to forego years of income to attain. Second, for the sake of argument, let’s walk through that. Median household income in the US was $52k according to the 2014 Census. Take the $2k/mo figure above and let’s add in another $1k/mo for rent since that was backed out. So $3k/mo after taxes = $36k/year after taxes. Let’s say 30% income tax rate to make the math easier, and you’re talking around a ~$51k/year salary. Add the pre-tax maxed out 401k contributions back into that, since they’re after tax, and you’re at $69k/year.
If you’re a first year associate working 2500 billable (not worked hours, mind you, BILLABLE hours) a year, making the equivalent of a $70k/year salary, you’re working for $27/hour. If you’re at a lifestyle firm and you only bill 2200 hours your first year – you’re making $31/hour. And remember, this salary level is the highest possible for a new lawyer, it’s hardly the average salary that new lawyers make. There simply is no argument that less than $30/hour for the tippy top of a profession that requires years of schooling is OMG SO MUCH MONEY that should make you “ill” to think about.
??
I’m not exactly sure why you’ve decided a $180k salary is equivalent to a $70k salary?
At any rate, $180k for someone in their mid 20s is a lot, no matter how much you try to justify it. It just is. Most people don’t make such a large yearly salary EVER, so the argument about opportunity cost also doesn’t really justify it. It’s not fun working those hours. But it is a lot of money. There are almost no other professions where a first year can even afford to live in a $3k/mo apt. Or max out 401k. Or have luxuries.
Cough*BS*Cough
“A survey by Allied Physicians found that surgeons specializing in neurosurgery earned $354,000 in their first and second years in practice. MedAccord sets the average starting salary even higher at about $500,000 annually. The highest reported starting salary was over $750,000 a year.”
What is the basis for your 45-50k a year?
salaries
You guys are talking about starting salaries, the first year out of law school (that takes 3 years), yes?
Doctors are in med school for 4 years and can graduate with 250k debt these days easy. And starting salaries for first year out of med school is often in the 50k range. 50k. Like young lawyers, young doctors are considered “trainee”s… and are called interns/residents/fellows as they advance. It takes 3-8+ years for this path before you earn better salaries. Neurosurgeons take 6+ years. The salaries have small increases each year of a few thousand. They work in NYC/SF/Boston/Chicago etc.. too. Stress/hours/responsibilities are rough.
I’m trying to give you guys some perspective.
These salaries just sound insane to some of us.
Of course, most doctors do not make anything near neurosurgeon’s salaries. And geez…. it is neurosurgery. It’s actual…. neurosurgery!
The Medicine equivalent to Big Law may be ?Big academic medicine and there…. salaries are actually lower with higher hours and more responsibilities (seeing patients, doing research, teaching, admin, service etc..). And like in law, salaries can vary widely depending upon where you live, what kind of clinic/hospital system. And the structures are changing dramatically each year.
Anonymous
The average lawyer does not make 100+ out of law school. The BigLaw salaries are insane to most people. But they are also a function of the market, which is determined by corporate money being available to pay. Healthcare economics have different constraints.
I would consider neurosurgeons more on par with something like a US Attorney – prestige and power, but as a public service/servant. It may pay off down the road, but won’t be as lucrative up front. BigLaw is more like cosmetic surgery or dermatology – lots of optional services that people are willing to pay for.
anon
Oh calm down. The vast majority of lawyers who start out in large firms making these salaries know their days are numbered. Most of them will only make 150k for 4-8 years, then for the rest of their careers make less. That may not have been the case (or not as frequently) pre-2008, but it sure is now.
So for the average neurosurgery resident who makes, say 50k for six years, then jumps to 400k+ for the rest of his career pretty much comes out better than the big law associate who makes 180k for 5 years then makes 120k in government for the rest of his career. So there’s your “perspective.”
Plus, salary distribution is very bi-modal. Very few graduates get these jobs.
Also, very few of these lawyers are in their “early 20s.”
Also, these lawyers are expected to work insane hours and be on call.
And, loans.
So yeah, it’s a lot of money, but I fail to see why it’s enough money to make someone “sick.” What are you doing, de-worming orphans in Somalia for free?
anon
Assuming equal job opportunities, talk to me about Dallas versus Austin. Which do you prefer for living and why?
Anonymous
Depends a lot on your politics and personality. I’m liberal (not left-wing, fwiw, said above Elizabeth Warren is too liberal for me) and I would move to Austin in a heartbeat. I wouldn’t move to Dallas if you offered to quadruple my salary. The cultures are totally different. A very educated, independent (mid-30s and single) friend who moved to Dallas has had a very hard time dealing with a culture where everyone is married by their mid-20s and almost no affluent women work. I’m sure there are some great people who live there, but my friend is miserable and is desperately trying to get out.
Anonymous
I’ll disagree with this. I am a late-30s Dallas lawyer who got married within the last year. Among my friend groups, I was not an odd duck. I have many female friends in their 30s who are not married and don’t have kids. They are professionals like me and are committed to their careers. I also have many friends in their 30s who are working moms. In fact, none of my friends opted to be SAHMs (not that I have anything against SAHM—my own mom is one). So as someone who works in regional BigLaw, went to college and law school in Dallas and therefore has a lot of friends in the area, I don’t think the characterization of Dallas as “a culture where everyone is married by their mid-20s and almost no affluent women work” is accurate. That was probably true 20 years ago, but it’s not my experience today.
I think Dallas is a great place to live. Reasonable cost of living, with options ranging from condos to huge starter mansions, great restaurant selection, well-educated population, excellent grocery stores (I love to grocery shop), very good clothing shopping, a major airport so you can fly nonstop almost anywhere domestically, and as many non-work activities as you may want. It used to be a very insular culture, but now so many people have moved here from other places, that it’s easy to fit in and find friends after moving here. My biggest complaints are that it’s not good for walking or biking and traffic is getting worse.
I haven’t spent much time in Austin so I cannot be helpful with Dallas v. Austin.
Blue Jay
I’ll disagree with this. I am a late-30s Dallas lawyer who got married within the last year. And I wasn’t unusual among my friend group. I have many female friends in their 30s who are not married and don’t have kids. They are professionals like me and are committed to their careers. I also have many friends in their 30s who are working moms. In fact, none of my friends opted to be SAHMs (not that I have anything against SAHM—my own mom is one). So as someone who works in regional BigLaw, went to college and law school in Dallas and therefore has a lot of friends in the area, I don’t think the characterization of Dallas as “a culture where everyone is married by their mid-20s and almost no affluent women work” is accurate. That was probably true 20 years ago, but it’s not my experience today.
I think Dallas is a great place to live. Reasonable cost of living, with options ranging from condos to huge starter mansions, great restaurant selection, well-educated population, excellent grocery stores (I love to grocery shop), very good clothing shopping, a major airport so you can fly nonstop almost anywhere domestically, and as many non-work activities as you may want. It used to be a very insular culture, but now so many people have moved here from other places, that it’s easy to fit in and find friends after moving here. My biggest complaints are that it’s not good for walking or biking and traffic is getting worse.
I haven’t spent much time in Austin so I cannot be helpful with Dallas v. Austin.
Blue Jay
I’ll disagree with this. I am a late-30s Dallas lawyer who got married within the last year. I have many female friends in their 30s who are not married and don’t have kids. They are professionals like me and are committed to their careers. I also have many friends in their 30s who are working moms. In fact, none of my friends opted to be SAHMs (not that I have anything against SAHM—my own mom is one). So as someone who works in regional BigLaw, went to college and law school in Dallas and therefore has a lot of friends in the area, I don’t think the characterization of Dallas as “a culture where everyone is married by their mid-20s and almost no affluent women work” is accurate. That was probably true 20 years ago, but it’s not my experience today.
I think Dallas is a great place to live. Reasonable cost of living, with options ranging from condos to huge starter mansions, great restaurant selection, well-educated population, excellent grocery stores (I love to grocery shop), very good clothing shopping, a major airport so you can fly nonstop almost anywhere domestically, and as many non-work activities as you may want. It used to be a very insular culture, but now so many people have moved here from other places, that it’s easy to fit in and find friends after moving here. My biggest complaints are that it’s not good for walking or biking and traffic is getting worse.
I haven’t spent much time in Austin so I cannot be helpful with Dallas v. Austin.
Anonymous
Austin has a huge party culture event for adults. Dallas is boring, but a really really great place to raise a family and kids. Austin is more hippy/liberal/small shops/ foodtrucks/bars whereas Dallas is a little more stiff. That being said there are more things to do in Dallas. The city as a whole is just bigger, so it has a better arts scene (well at least Fort Worth does), it has Sixs Flags and all the major sports. I feel like in Austin proper there isn’t much to do other than go to bars. That being said if you are outdoorsy, MOVE TO AUSTIN. It is so close to the hill country and has plentiful state parks nearby. From Dallas you really have to go to Oklahoma for good hiking and camping. I would say meeting people is probably harder in Dallas, but I would definitely rather have a family in Dallas than Austin. Austin is also like a mini Sillicon Valley, so if you have a tech job, I would move there just for more opportunities. This also means that business fashion as a whole skews more casual in Austin vs Dallas is more dressed up. FWIW I grew up in Dallas suburbs and live in Houston currently. My brother lives in Austin. I love visiting Austin for a weekend, but I wouldn’t want to live there full time.
anon
Thanks both for your thoughts! Much appreciated!
Anonymous
I’m late but I’ll +1 to both of the above comments. I live in Dallas now and went to grad school in Austin. I’m in my early 30s, single, one furkid (no human ones) and grew up solidly middle class. Dallas in theory has a lot to do, but the day to day lifestyle and making friends/trying to date can get really tedious if you’re not the married at 25 and having kids already type, and if you aren’t super into wealth status symbols. Even the people who aren’t married are all coupled up, so if you’re the kind of person who is fine being single in between relationships rather than dating someone eh just to have a partner, or even single all the time, people will look at you like you’re a leper.
If I had equal job opportunities in Austin and could afford to live close-in, I’d move back in a heartbeat.
LSC
I have lived in both cities. Dallas is more corporate and focused on shopping and aesthetics. Great upscale food scene. Austin has become more corporate over the years, but on the whole is more laid back, less formal, and more focused on nature and entertainment. Austin has several large music festivals and is known for tech and innovation. Great variety of good food at all price levels. Dallas has a great number of corporate headquarters and less green space. I will say that I think Dallas has more affordable options for housing just because of its size and the number of suburbs. I enjoyed both for different reasons. We’ve settled in Austin and are raising a family here because we like the priorities of the city (apart from the awful traffic issues). It really depends on what is a priority for you.
anon
Texan here. Everyone who has ever lived in Austin ever ever ever loves it. Everyone. People are obsessed with Austin. It is beautiful, happy, sunny, friendly, fun and cultured.
Dallas is … ok for some people, not for others.
Anonymous
I was diagnosed with PCOS about a year ago. When I was diagnosed, my gyno recommended me a endocrinologist to go see, but didn’t really say why I was supposed to go see her. I set up an appointment and she ran blood tests and told me to lose weight. I was supposed to have a follow up appointment which seemed essentially only to see if I had lost weight, but I canceled it because I really didn’t like her. She pretty much immediately was trying to sell me expensive food supplements (~$400 a month) and froze meals. I am aware of how fat I am, she didn’t really give me any tips on how to lose weight, and frankly reddit has been more helpful with telling me what I should or shouldn’t eat.
Am I missing something? Is there a reason to go to an endocrinologist? I don’t really feel like paying someone $60 a month to tell me I am fat and try to sell me some crash diet. Was this experience wildly different from anyone else who has been diagnosed with PCOS?
Anonymous
I think you can probably get a prescription for metaformin or birth control, which could help you manage symptoms and make weight loss a lot easier If you’re talking to a bunch of women with PCOS on reddit I’m sure they can advise better than I, but I do know that metaformin helped one of my friends. I do think it’s worth it to go to the follow-up to see what medications she can recommend and ignore her diet advice.
Anon
Fellow PCOS-er here. Did all your blood work come back normal? My guess is that she wants to make sure you aren’t affected by insulin resistance issues since there is a high comorbidity with PCOS. Same with hypothyroidism. All that said, if you don’t like her, find someone else! A good endocrinologist will give you options and help you choose what is best for you.
Also, birth control definitely won’t make weight loss easier (the reverse is usually true). However, women with PCOS are at higher risk for ovarian cancer long-term so if you aren’t TTC getting on an oral contraceptive is usually a good idea.
Just some food for thought!
Anon
I also have PCOS and I am also over weight. I have hypothyroidism as well. So it is easy for me to gain weight. I am petite too…so any weight I gain is easily visible.
I am not on any PCOS related medication. What helped me was understanding that PCOS is a metabolic problem than reproductive (?) problem. Unfortunately losing weight is the only thing that helped me control symptoms, mainly regulate my periods. I have been maintaining my weight from last thirteen years. Sometimes, I do gain 20 pounds easily, but I try to lose it as soon as I can. It is always a struggle.
I lost weight mainly by drastically reducing complex carbs (mainly rice and wheat), reducing sugary processed food and increasing protein. I also eat a lot of vegetables. I eat fats in moderation, say for example, I eat whole fat cheese but don’t eat fried stuff like nachos or chips. I eat a lot of fruits and my everyday breakfast is fruit, protein powder and kale smoothie. So I am not on low carb diet by any means, though that may help some people. So my diet for a day has following structure:
1. Breakfast – Fruit smoothie with protein powder, yogurt and kale powder.
2. Lunch – beans soup or salad, a small bowl of fruits, salad greens mixed with olive oil, lemon juice, salt and pepper.
3. Evening Snack – 1 protein bar (around 200 calories, some protein bars are calorie dense. So you may want to be careful).
4. Dinner – Eggs/Chicken/Fish with vegetable curry on the side. Sometimes yogurt. A small dessert. May be a small piece of chocolate, small scoop of ice cream or whatever, but service size is strictly controlled. And dessert is always after dinner and never when I am hungry so that I don’t end up gorging desserts.
When I follow the above structure, I don’t have to count calories to lose weight. Also, I am a volume eater. I want to feel full when I eat. I have found the main culprit for my weight gain is rice and wheat products as I don’t feel full by eating small quantities of rice and bread, so to feel satiated, I end up eating a lot of it which ends up being more calories than what I need.
PCOS Lady
Hi – I have PCOS and have been working to manage for years. In January I went to a PCOS expert with a unique view of PCOS. He believes it’s the result of issues with insulin/blood sugar regulation and thus the treatment should be similar to diabetes treatment rather than focusing on regulating cycles/testosterone levels through birth control. Although I was not overweight when I went to see him, he indicated that if I continued down my current path, diabetes was likely to follow. I’m now in my fourth month of a somewhat aggressive treatment. It takes commitment to stick to, but it’s worked really well for me. I have a daily shot of victoza and am on spironolactone, metformin, and actos. I’ve lost about 20lbs but more importantly, feel healthier. Worked for me. Good luck!
PBD
I don’t have PCOS but began seeing an endocrinologist upon recommendation of my GP, and she put me on a low dose of metformin for pre-diabetes, and it has worked really well so far (knock on wood) for lowering my A1C (have been on it for a few months now). She does also tell me to watch what I eat and exercise regularly but she doesn’t make me feel bad about it or sell me nonsense. Seeing her has been very helpful as she specializes in this area and is very thorough. Is there another endo you can see instead? I would recommend finding someone else whom you feel comfortable with and trust.
The other anon
I could use some help for how people make it through burnout. I’ve called my insurance, I have 3 mental health providers, and they are just not giving me the “yay, progress” fuzzies.
I’m having a hard time staying home, though the LCSW recommends that I do – I feel that I need some sort of new diagnosis or something.
There is too much work. Our second search for the expansion position just failed. I blew a deadline, my boss has forgiven it, but he and I know that something needs to change, and the work keeps pouring in. I work with sexual assault survivors, so this week has been really intense with the Brock case (should be empowering, but other than a few small salvos, nothing. Some of this is coupled with complex grief with my dad dying after a long decline. I love him, though when he was diagnosed with cancer, surgery and removal went well, and then he promptly stopped eating regular food, never got out of the recovery bed, then slowly starved himself on minimal consumption of Ensure while under hospice care. He passed in January. My sister-in-law died of a freak brain infection (Mad Cow variant) A dear friend’s son committed suicide in February, and she is in crisis with the daugther – I’ve put some on that but feel terrible. Family drama through Dad’s memorial service in April, most of the planning and eulogy was on me. Add to that my dear husband went into a recovery program for his drinking (yay!) and got a performance improvement program two weeks in (going well), and my Aunt just got put on hospice.
I have, sum total, content for at LEAST 15 country sob songs. Humor is helpful. After this much death, our fridge (which was on the warning track) died, pressing us into kitchen renovation, so being home, with a contractor, and stuff in boxes everywhere, is difficult.
What I really need is help figuring my way out of burnout with all of this. I’m in a really odd spot that feels like Magical Thinking and it’s freaking me out. because Logic Brain knows that if Work Brain doesn’t revive, this just gets uglier.
Help! Have you taken a break to get yourself back together? How?
What has helped if you have been in any of the above situations?
Wildkitten
Exercise. Leave your blackberry at home. Meditation. Turn off your blackberry. Outsource anything you can – like your fridge, funerals, etc. Are you in a community? Do you believe in a higher power? Those can also help.
You need to take a break. You’ve had so much happen. Is your husband at recovery now? Take a week off while he is out. Go to a resort. Sleep. Don’t bring your phone.
Require time off. Demand it. Insist. Bring a doctor’s note. If you don’t get a break you won’t be of any use at all to your company.
I am sorry you are going through all of this.
Trish
Your counselor recommends that you stay at home? Then take some time off! You need to sleep for a long time. And watch mindless TV. And then sleep some more. After a week, you can start exercising, and getting better, maybe work part-time but you need a break.
Trial Wardrobe
Is a navy cotton suit with ankle pants (I also have the pencil skirt) too casual for a federal trial in a rural area in a southern state? I also have gray and black trouser/skirt suits, but I was hoping to only bring the gray and navy.
Julia
No, as long as they are truly ankle pants and not shorter. Cotton will be fine in the summer in the South.
anon for this
Dating question: met a terrific guy online about a month ago and we’ve been on four dates (he lives about 90 minutes away so we have only been able to see each other weekends so far). He’s studying for the bar next month and is super stressed about it, and has said that he hopes we can see each other more but it will probably be limited because of the study schedule. I really, really like him and he’s been amazing in all other respects – kind, sweet, super attentive (i.e. texts/calls every day, tells me he misses me), but i worry that we’ll lose momentum if we don’t keep hanging out. I think he even picked up on that and told me that he’s not interested in seeing anyone else – it’s just bad timing that we met right before the bar. My rational self is telling me he’s just being careful and prepared and i need to give him some leeway here, but my paranoid self worries that he’s not that into me. Any advice?? thx in advance :)
Anonymous
He’s either going to forget about with the stress of the bar, or you’ll get to see him a bunch more come August. Either way, only time will tell.
Tell your paranoid self to shut up and make a bunch of fun solo plans during July to distract you from obsessing about it. Check in occasionnally during the next month, but let him set the pace he wants to manage his stress.
Wildkitten
This is great advice.
Wildkitten
Give him the space he needs for the bar. The bar is terrible. It’s not about you.
Some ideas – Can you do stress-relieving activities together like exercise, instead of the normal early dating hours of chitchat? Can you bring over take-out and read a book while he studies? Can you plan something fun for a few days after the bar? Ask him what would work for him – everyone is different, but the bar exam is a very very abnormal experience that is so much more stressful than real life.
anon for this
thank you both, i know i need perspective. I’ve taken two bars but it’s been so long that i think i’ve forgotten how stressful it is. Plus my study style is to cram and he seems to be the opposite – study more intensely at the beginning so he can be more relaxed at the end (probably a better way to be lol). I’ll give him space and just let it play out. I also neglected to mention that i’m starting a three week trial next week so I will be crunched for time myself.
January
You know, I had a somewhat similar situation recently with a guy who was just really crunched for time (met online), and the big difference I see between my situation and yours is that your guy keeps in touch with you regularly, whereas the guy I was dating got flaky. I decided to stop seeing him (or maybe he decided to stop seeing me and I was just slow on the uptake? I’ll never know).
Honestly, I would not have tried to date someone who lived 90 minutes away when I was studying for the bar. I would have thought it was too stressful. I think your new relationship still shows promise, but I would consider continuing to date other people for now, for your own peace of mind. Or you can focus on work while you’re in trial, and maybe you’ll hardly notice you’re not seeing him! ;)
anon for this
thank you! i’m sort of sick of dating at the moment and setting up new dates while in trial seems dubious, so i think i will just focus on work for the next few weeks and see how things go. We already set up a date for next weekend when his schedule is lighter so i’m excited. :)
Senior Attorney
Great advice here. My motto is “somebody who is interested will make time to see you,” and it sounds like he’s doing that even though he’s stressed and far away.
Anon
Hi folks. Earlier this week somebody asked about a boring/unfulfilling job with extraordinary work-life balance. That person was TTC and it seemed like the general consensus was she should stay. I’m in the same boat (boring job, dysfunctional team, ineffective boss but great work/life balance) but not TTC. I’m wondering if that changes the advice at all.
I recently left a big law firm because the stress was killing me. The job I’m at now is in an area I’m interested in, but the work is incredibly dull and requires only about 5% of my brain power. I don’t have enough work to stay stimulated and engaged all day and the work I do have is boring (think, copying and pasting into templates, that kind of thing). There is also a big face-time expectation, so just disappearing for hours at a time for miscellaneous appointments isn’t an option.
I am so bored. It feels like my brain is atrophying. The hours are great, and my stress is generally better. I am also trying to enrich my non-working hours, but it is so difficult to not feel useful or engaged in what I spend 9 hours/day 5 days/week doing.
So … thoughts or suggestions? Do I stay in a job that is intellectually stifling but otherwise has a great work/life balance (when I’m not TTC)?
Hollis
This new job is not a good fit for you.
You need intellectual stimulation, challenges, and you need to feel useful. I was in the same boat as you and it made me depressed and anxious to feel like I was not doing anything interesting/worthwhile with my time and there was no opportunities for advancement either. So, I found another job in a midlaw position and it made a huge difference. Took a small pay cut only to work more hours (and I have 3 kids too) but I love my work and my colleagues and I enjoy going to work. I wish I could have relaxed and enjoyed all that time to surf the net or whatever, but I think I’m just happier when I’m more productive and it sounds like you are that way as well.
Anon
Thanks, that is really helpful to hear. It feels so strange to complain about such a thing (and I’m not sure a lot of people understand), but it actually is triggering my anxiety/depression to feel so bored and not useful. I’m happy to hear about somebody who faced something similar and made it out the other end. Thanks!
baseballfan
Three years ago I left public accounting for an in-house corporate tax job for several reasons, work-life balance among them. After the new wore off, I was pretty miserable. I wasn’t intellectually stimulated by my new job, although I was perfectly capable of doing it well and I was with a good company with solid job security. Quite simply, I was bored. I left every day at 4:30 and never worked weekends, and yet I pined for the old days with billable hours and travel and impossible-to-please clients.
I’m now back in Big 4 and wishing I’d never left.
baseballfan
Three years ago I left public accounting for an in-house corporate tax job for several reasons, work-life balance among them. After the new wore off, I was pretty miserable. I wasn’t intellectually stimulated by my new job, although I was perfectly capable of doing it well and I was with a good company with solid job security. Quite simply, I was bored. I left every day at 4:30 and never worked weekends, and yet I pined for the old days with billable hours and travel and impossible-to-please clients.
I’m now back in Big 4 and wishing I’d never left.
Anon
I’m nodding in agreement to so much here – leaving at 4:30 and never working weekends but being so miserable. And missing the days when I could come and go literally whenever I wanted and absolutely nobody cared as long as my work was done. And it does – it feels infantalizing. I’ve entertained thoughts about going back to my firm (they’ve already told me multiple times I can come back any time), but I want to be sure I’m being thoughtful about it and not just panicking. This thread is days old so I don’t expect you to see this, but if you do, I’m curious if you went back to your exact same position and how that felt.