Weekend Open Thread

189 Comments

1. Hi all – looking for recommendations for a Mother / Daughter getaway locale for over 4th of July weekend! She’s 60, I’m 30, both active but not super outdoorsy. We like good food, cute shops, and walkability as we both hate driving. In prior years (either separately or together) we’ve done Charleston, Sonoma, San Diego, Savannah, DC, Tahoe, NYC, Traverse City, Boston, and Nashville.
   Will be coming from Chicago so prefer direct flight if possible.

   TIA!

   1. Asheville.

      1. I went to Asheville (also from Chicago) last year and was incredibly disappointed in the food scene. It’s also not super walkable. My favorite day of the trip was when we left the city and drove into the Blue Ridge Mountains, but you need a car for that.

         1. I agree about both disappointment in the Nashville food scene and that it is not a particularly walkable place. I loved the hiking nearby but was not wowed by the town.

            1. Are you talking about Ashville or Nashville? I personally do not care for the atmosphere, as the men there are not bashful about their intentions and they are purely centered on immediate s-xueal gratification, at women’s expense. Why in the world would any self-respecting woman agree to go out to the back of the bar with some guy who you don’t even know to do any of that with him? Aside from the fact that they are only interested in themselves, you are at risk of almost anything if you do that with him. I say women need to stick together and not do anything alone with any man you don’t already know very well.

   2. Seattle, San Francisco, Montreal, Portland Maine?

      1. Or Quebec City — like a trip to Paris without the long flight!

      2. Another vote for Portland ME

   3. Portland or Bar Harbor, ME would both be nice at that time of year.

      1. Bar Harbor will be a madhouse that time of year. Last year was especially bad, and I imagine this year will be too.

         1. Really? I go to that part of Maine every year and I thought summer 2021 had noticeably light tourist traffic, I imagine due to the pandemic and some people still being hesitant to fly. 2022 will likely be closer to normal, but I have been there on July 4th several times and don’t think it’s any more crowded than other popular tourists destinations.

   4. What about New Orleans? There is a direct flight – we went from Nola to Chicago this summer and it was easy! You could stay at a bed and breakfast, go shopping on Magazine Street (there is a cute shop called the Shard Shop where you can make your own art), take a cooking class, Uber to the Art Museum and Botanical Garden at Ciry Park, have afternoon tea at the Windsor Court, and lots of great restaurants. There is also the WWII museum and Aquarium. Hope y’all have fun wherever you pick!

      1. In July though, if they are from Chicago? They may melt or get the vapors (need hotel with good bar and fainting couches).

         1. Lol true! I missed the part about July!

         2. It’s -20 wind chill in Chicago today. How do I get in on that heat-induced fainting couch action?

   5. Philly? Ann Arbor?

      1. If they hate driving, Ann Arbor’s really not the solution, as it makes no sense to fly there from Chicago.

         1. Maybe they could take the train? The Wolverine line takes about 4.5 hours from Union Station to AA.

      2. lol I live in Philly and GTFO of town for the 4th weekend as it is totally overrun.

         What about somewhere like Palm Beach? Pick a hotel close to Worth and you can walk to beach, shopping, dining.

         1. Yes, fly into PHL but go to Cape May?
            But book quickly – July 4th fills up.

      3. I like Ann Arbor a lot, but it’s a college town and kind of empty in the summers. It can also be pretty hot in July. You don’t have the lake breeze the way you do in Chicago.

      4. OP here – popping back to say that I actually went to UMich and while it won’t be our weekend getaway spot, I love that you suggested it :)

         Go Blue!

   6. Another vote for the Maine coast. Portland and Acadia are both great and lots of scenic coastal towns in between. July is going to be oppressively hot most places that aren’t New England or northeast Canada.

      1. Just as a note on this – it’s about a 3-4 hour drive between the two. Longer if you’re going to go up the coastal route.

         (I used to live in Castine, a cute little town about an hour from Acadia… and people were often shocked about how big Maine is.)

   7. Boulder could be interesting to consider? If you stay near Pearl Street you’re set.

   8. SF + Napa (w/a driver, so you can drink all the wine).

   9. Vegas? When I went it was so subterranean it was actually really walkable.

2. I’m considering an anniversary trip with my husband for early March. We’re between San Diego and Phoenix/Scottsdale. In San Diego, we would probably spend a couple of days around the Gaslamp Quarter, go to the zoo & sightsee, and then go to a resort slightly out of town for a few days. I’m not sure what we would do besides a resort and light hiking in Scottsdale. Any opinions on either of the two?

   We’re burnt out and need a break, but we aren’t great at totally doing nothing. We’re also pretty covid conscious. I know any trip is a risk but we’re hoping for warm weather so we can be outside and hopefully distance ourselves from others for the most part. We’re coming from an area where no one wears masks already, but it would be nice to see more. If things stay where they are now, we’re not going, but I’m trying to be optimistic.

   1. If you do San Diego and want to splurge, highly recommend the U.S. Grant Hotel. Also Little Italy is a fun walkable area for dining.

      1. + 1 to the US Grant, and a vote for the Hotel Del Coronado, amazing location on the beach.

         1. The hotel Coronado looks amazing – I’d vote for that and mostly just hang out eating/drinking/hitting the spa.

            1. After your spendy drinks at the Hotel Del, the main road in Coronado (Orange Avenue) is walkable and has lots of cute shops. Bay Books is a great bookstore.

               The (passenger only) ferry across the bay from downtown to Coronado is also kind of neat (15 minute ride, costs $5 one way). The ferry dock is about 1.5 miles from the Hotel Del.

            2. Also there’s a(n easy, flat) bike path all around Coronado Island and I’m sure you can rent bikes somewhere.

   2. Desert Botanical Garden in Phoenix; tennis pro lesson; is Cactus League still going on then?

   3. California will almost certainly be better from a covid-cautious perspective. I think there’s a good chance that the case rate will be much better by early March.

   4. Is there a reason you’re limiting yourself to Scottsdale in AZ? I would vote for AZ but Tucson or Sedona. AZ is generally less Covid cautious than CA but I’m not sure it really matters if your plan is to spend most of your time outdoors or in your own private rental car or hotel room.

      1. I follow the blogger Carolina Charm and she and her husband did a Sedona trip for their anniversary (4 or 5 days I think). They found plenty to fill their time though I suspect some of it may have been secretly free or sponsored – gorgeous, though!

      2. Similar to the comment below on San Diego, Sedona might be warm enough for what OP needs (I.e. warm enough to hike etc.) but would also likely not be particularly “warm” in early March, if that matters to OP.

   5. It depends on what you consider warm, and how much of a deal breaker it would be if it wasn’t.
      I live in CA (though not San Diego) and I don’t consider San Diego a shoo in for a particularly warm place in early March. Google tells me highs of mid-60s. I know, I know, that’s significantly warmer than much of the country then, but it’s no Scottsdale. BUT if you only care so that it’s warm enough to do (fully dressed, non swimsuit) activities outside, you should be fine.

      1. I was going to say this as well. March can definitely be iffy weather in coastal ÇA areas. OP, it doesn’t sound like you’re counting on beach weather, so you’ll probably be fine. But know that it could be low 60s and overcast in the morning.

         1. And by low 60s, I meant that as a high temp all day, not just in the morning! Mornings could be upper 40s.

   6. I’m a San Diego native and live here currently. I would not stay in the Gaslamp. It is especially dirty now and has been really impacted by COVID and homelessness. Coronado is the best suggestion. Enjoy!

3. This is the year I’m making sourdough — but does anyone here have any tips on where to get the starter? Do I make it? Buy it? None of my local friends make sourdough. TIA!

   1. You should make it! They’re really easy, though it will take a couple of weeks to be ready. There are starter recipes on sites like Serious Eats, King Arthur Flour, and the Kitchn with lots of information. Tartine Bread is a fantastic book that also does a deep dive into the starter.

      Have fun!

   2. King Arthur sells it but it’s pretty easy to make. I’m sure a local bakery may also have some you can buy.

   3. you can make it! lots of tutorials online, but the first 5 days are sort of demanding. Demanding may not be the right word, but you have to feed it at the same time to get it to grow. After it’s established, it’s way easier. I forget about mine for weeks routinely. If you want, you can get some dehydrated starter shipped, but trying it yourself is pretty low stakes.

      https://www.feastingathome.com/sourdough-starter/

   4. Make it. It takes at least a week and closer to 2 to ferment fully, but then it’s good to go. It should smell yeasty when ready.

   5. Not to discourage you if you really want to make sourdough, but if you just want to get into bread baking, there’s no reason you can’t just use yeast. Sourdough can be really good, but I don’t always like the flavor and it can be easier to just make regular bread if you just want to improve your baking skills. King Arthur is a good resource either way.

      1. Ha, I love sourdough taste! We’re all different. Maybe because I’m a Bay Area native.

   6. Make it. It’s easy, just takes (unattended) time.

   7. I’ve made my own and I’ve used King Arthur’s, and I really like theirs. It’s a fun experiment to make your own, but if you’re more excited to get to work baking bread I think it’s nice to start with theirs.

   8. Make it. It’s easy. Use the waste for pizza dough, pancakes, etc until it’s nice and bubbly. Once you have a strong starter, it’s surprisingly resilient. I’ve pulled nasty gray stuff out of the fridge after a year or so’s rest and it was ready to bake with in <2 days.

      1. Wow! I was concerned about leaving mine for 6 weeks! Not anymore!

         1. Oh it looks disgusting at the get-go, but if I start with a small amount – say 25 g, by the time I’ve doubled it enough times to bake with, it’s in great, bubbly shape.

   9. There is someone on our neighborhood listserv that gives away starter… if you trust folks on yours ( or in your buy nothing group), that might be a way to get some.

   10. I bought my starter from Kensington Market Starter–it’s descended from a 150 year old San Francisco starter and really tangy.

4. I have a terrible time not feeling defensive when my DH says something that could be construed as a criticism and I’m seeing if anyone has any thoughts on how to reframe my thoughts or what to say in these moments. A couple of examples – we were visiting family over the holidays and for space reasons, my pre-teen kids slept at their cousin’s house but DH and I and DH’s parents slept at an AirBNB nearby, but we went over to the cousin’s house and spent all day until late just about every day during the break. One morning, I had some work to do and when I mentioned just staying at the AirBNB in the morning and joining the group for lunch and afterwards, DH says, “Don’t you want to see the kids? We haven’t seen them yet today.” It kind of stung at the moment, but I brushed it off (and then took my laptop and did my work at the cousin’s house). Another example, I was in the middle of listening to a podcast that I find engaging and when DH came home, I said “Hi” but then continued to listening to my podcast and then he said, “Don’t you even want to ask me how my day went?” I don’t think they are meant to be criticisms, more that DH just says stuff out loud and doesn’t mince words, but I feel bad about myself routinely (in general, low self-esteem from very critical parents and I’m also recovering from body issues/an eating disorder from my 20’s) so I’m starting to internalize these really small things. Anyone else feel like they are generally defensive/oversensitive and in that case, how do you improve on that?

   1. Those are literally just questions. What if you took them at face value and just answered them?

      Q: “Don’t you want to see the kids? We haven’t seen then yet today.”
      A: “Of course I do, but I have work to do this morning. You run along and I’ll see you at lunchtime.”
      Q: “Don’t you even want to ask me how my day went?”
      A: “I totally do but I’m in the middle of this amazing podcast — give me 15 minutes and I’ll be all yours.”

      Also: We say this all the time here, but… therapy can be great for stuff like this.

      1. Thanks SA – this is fantastic advice. I guess what I’m “hearing” from these questions is DH telling me I don’t care about the kids or I don’t care about him and that makes me get into a downward guilt spiral about being a working mom, not being a good wife/mom, not doing enough around the house, etc. Yes, therapy would be good for me. As would be growing a tougher skin of course.

         1. Have you used your words to say this to your husband?

   2. I think that parents are presumed to want to see their kids (so I would never bother mentioning), but if you have to work, you have to work. I’d shrug it off. Or be sarcastic (or do: no, I’ve seen them for all of lockdown, maybe they need some time without us).

      The quick “hi” with turning back to a podcast would bother me OTOH. Like there is a pause button for the podcast, but I’m a person. A few seconds of someone’s time and attention is validating (to me) vs the feeling like I’m ignorable or not preferred to a podcast. [I’m on my kids about this — if they beat me home from something and I walk into the house, look up and say hi and maybe exchange bland pleasantries or wait to hear if I need help bringing in groceries, etc. It’s endemic it seems, turning out others.]

      1. I agree, I’d be hurt (a little bit) if I were ignored for a podcast.

      2. Yeah, this would bug me a little too. I listen to a lot of podcasts and try really hard not to do this to my husband. It definitely bothers me when someone comes home or gets up in the morning and doesn’t acknowledge the people already there. It’s possible that he’s saying this in overly critical way, in which case I understand the feeling hurt, but I’d rather know that this is something that’s important to him than not know.

   3. I think your husband is being a little passive aggressive. Address it head on.

   4. Girl what? He’s being rude and critical.

      1. OMG no he’s not.

         1. My partner will say things like this to voice HIS feelings, oddly, by asking it as a question to me. Here, it looks like he cares about how he is seen by others or something. I’d give it a shrug if I needed to get work done.

   5. Voicing your upset and therapy…. this would aggravate me to no end, too, particularly if I said my piece and was ignored. Is he always passive aggressive (ie, a really annoyingly indirect communication style that some folks just have) or is it only directed at you?

   6. Both of those questions could be construed as neutral or as criticism depending on tone and facial expression, so I’m going to believe that you’re sensitive, but not oversensitive. I sometimes have to remind myself to assume the best of my husband, especially when one or both of us are stressed. But you may want to talk to him about how he expresses disappointment in your choices – it would be more constructive to say “can we talk for a few minutes?” than what he chose to say when he came home and you kept listening to your podcast.

      It has been a loooong couple of years, and everyone is a little (or a lot) on edge. It’s worth it to have a relationship tune-up talk from time to time.

      1. Amen for the tune-up. You wouldn’t tune out someone you were dating for a podcast, but a bad habit to slide into with a spouse (that I guess you find less engaging) who doesn’t like to be treated like that (and used his words to show his disappointment).

5. I posted anonymously a couple weeks ago about having a surprise pregnancy (with IUD AND c*ndom). It ended up being a true statistical fluke (my IUD was correctly placed, not recalled, not expired; and the c*ndoms were also fine). I had awful morning sickness that quickly abated and was replaced by bleeding. We thought it was implantation bleeding, when it kept coming we thought it was probably a miscarriage. It turns out it was actually ectopic, and I had to go on methotrexate (meant for leukemia, but keeps cells from multiplying) and then be monitored until it was gone. Phew.

   A couple takeaways:
   -check your IUD strings! Know that it’s in place and what feels normal, just in case. That wasn’t the problem here, but it seems like that’s where most pregnancies with IUDs come from is a misplaced or embedded IUD.
   -if you get pregnant with an IUD get it checked out soon, even if you want to keep the pregnancy to term.
   -consider midwives for well woman care if you haven’t! I exchanged literally 200+ texts over 6 days with her, and then another 5 or 10 phone calls.

   1. I am so glad you’re okay, and sorry that you went through that.

   2. That’s a lot to go through. Glad you’re doing ok. Thanks for sharing the advice and nice to know the midwife route was supportive.

   3. Because of your earlier post, I called my gyn to make a very past due annual appointment. Gotta get that IUD checked!

      I’m sorry you went through this.

   4. From what I’ve heard, methotrexate is really rough. Hope you’re feeling better. What a freaky experience!

   5. That’s awesome about the midwife! So sorry you had to go through that.

   6. Thanks for sharing this experience. I have had an IUD for a long time and have always worried about getting pregnant with it in. I’m sorry it happened to you and I appreciate you sharing your takeaways.

6. A colleague’s wife just had a baby and I’d like to get them an outfit. Baby was about 3 weeks premature. Would it still be best to get 0-3 month clothes if I want to make sure they fit? Or 3-6 months?

   1. I’d probably go for 3-6 months, unrelated to the prematurity, because often you get LOTS of newborn clothing, and in a month or two they may have way less.

      1. This. You could even go 6-9 and be ok!

   2. I know everyone says to go up a size but when my kids were born I actually hadn’t received any 0-3 month sixes as gifts and had to go buy some. The layette gowns and the all in one suits with feet are the best. My son had a super soft 0-3 month size velvety velour all in one that was so cozy I did laundry all the time so that he could wear it nearly every day.

   3. For my first child, I was all set for the first year with hand me downs. I most appreciated clothes in the 12 mos to 18 mos size range. Include a gift receipt with your gift. It’s too hard to predict someone else’s needs.

      1. This is true, too, because when baby starts crawling and walking/falling clothing gets worn through SO QUICKLY.

   4. For my son a colleague sent us a Patagonia snowsuit for his size that winter and I SO appreciated it – we were swimming in towels/blankets/0-6mo clothes, but had almost nothing in larger sizes and hadn’t thought about cold weather gear at all. I try to now make it a point to buy something like that – practical and slightly in a larger size – so a bathing suit set for a winter baby, their first needed winter jacket, etc.
      If you’re not sure what they need Gap is probably the easiest for ease of returns.

   5. So I’ll be the party pooper voice of dissent, but as someone with a three week old and a nursery positively overflowing with clothing/blanket/baby towel set gifts, we literally have more clothes than our kid can use before she’ll grow out of them. And the gifts of clothing for larger sizes are tricky if they’re at all seasonal, because the baby might not be that size once the weather is appropriate for said item (and it’s probably even harder to gauge future sizes for the right season with a premie, who might measure on the smaller size for awhile). I appreciate every gift, but I literally already have a box of brand new baby items that are going straight to donations :-/

      What we have gotten use out of is Doordash/Uber Eats and Target gift cards.

   6. My daughter was quite premature (10 1/2 weeks) and it was difficult to estimate when she was born what would fit when. If you give clothing that’s intended to fit sometime in the future, it would be a good idea to make sure that the style of the clothing is appropriate for the season it will likely be worn…and that it comes from a store that will be easy to return/exchange if it doesn’t work. (For example, if it has long sleeves or a heavier fabric, it may not work for summer….Sounds obvious but not everyone thinks through those details.)

   7. If you’re set on giving clothes, certainly do a gift receipt. But my very favorite gift as a new mom was a $100 Target gift card and/or the Costco pizza and ice cream bars someone brought over to the house.

      1. My team did a gigantic DoorDash team gift for them! I just want to get them something from me since I’m super close to the colleague.

         1. Check to see if they have a registry, there may be some items that haven’t been purchased yet!

         2. I think that’s really nice. To offer a different perspective, we just had a fourth and I’m still loving new outfits for her. It’s nice to have non-hand me downs sometimes! And I would say go 3-6 or 6-9 month sized. Or, like someone else said, a little patagonia puffer jacket for next year or something like that!

      2. +1 to gift receipt and if possible get the outfit from the same place she registered so she can return it easily.

         If you want to ignore that go for a graphic T onesie with her favorite book, band, tv show, etc – those were some of my favorite things for my sons.

7. Just learned that I’m getting an off-cycle bonus! I wasn’t expecting it, and know my boss had to fight to get it, so I’m thrilled.

   1. Yay you! And nice advocate in your boss.

   2. That’s awesome!

   3. Congratulations!

8. So I’m somewhat tech challenged and moreso just not interested so when I get a new phone I basically go to Apple, pick it out, and then ask them to set it up so that it’s functioning by the time I leave – contacts transferred over; all back-ups on etc. If I were to buy a phone on my own is this something I can do myself? I don’t recall if pics, voicemails, and texts go onto a new phone but I think they don’t. Apple stores in my area are closed and while I could buy from Verizon stores which are open, I just don’t want to stand in a store as this process always takes a half hr and with my luck there will be unmasked people coming and going the whole time. What do you think? Try it on my own or is it not worth the hassle and I should just wait until Feb/March when hopefully it feels more ok to be in stores? In the DC area – case rates are sky high.

   1. You can do it on your own and it’s pretty easy, but you need to make sure you’ve backed up your old phone before.

   2. It’s very easy to do yourself. I’d back up the old phone just to be safe, but the last phone I bought it didn’t even require that, it does it on its own.

   3. You can do it without making a backup, but if you make a backup on a computer using itunes (which is a little annoying) absolutely everything transfers without a hitch. I just did this with my son’s new phone last week. It’s the most reliable way and it only took a few minutes.

   4. You can totally do it yourself…the process is very easy. I just did this with AT&T and took less than 2 hours total to transfer over to new Iphone.

   5. It will literally sense that there is another apple product nearby (whether it’s your old phone or an iPad) and basically set up itself. It’s actually pretty fascinating.

      1. I think it is witchcraft and I am here for it.

         1. These days, the Apple transfer process is the only tech thing that is well designed and mostly works. I would still back up beforehand just in case of issues, but the transfer happens directly from device to device and is incredibly easy.

            I am actually mad because our IT department wants to end the practice of just handing the employee the new phone and letting them set it up. IT wants to provide “better service” by having the employee ship the old phone to them so they can handle the transfer. Seriously, exactly how helpless was the VP who complained because he couldn’t figure out how to hold the old phone next to the new one and enter his password once or twice? Oh, right. We all went to law school. That explains it.

            1. At Christmas, my firm issued new iPhone 13’s to everyone, including me, who really did not need or want one. The tech guy set up everyone’s but he messed mine up, as well as Lynn’s. I got her voicemails and emails and I am missing mine. She says she doesn’t have them. I asked the tech guy and he has no idea what happened, and he thinks we must have airdropped them ourselves?!? I thought you could only do that with photo’s. Any way, I am disgusted and told the manageing partner. He said he would talk to the tech guy, but it is tough to get anyone who knows anything about this. This is ridiculus.

   6. I bought a new iphone 13 last week at a Verizon store. I went right when the store opened, one other customers in the store the entire time, everyone was masked. I was in and out in maybe 25 minutes, everything transferred. My phone, trading in my iphone 6, was much, much cheaper than if I had gotten it at the Apple store, for what it’s worth.

   7. I just did this and it was so easy. I went to the Verizon store but they didn’t have any in stock so they ordered one for me. When it came in the mail I turned it on and setup instructions popped up. I literally only had to hold the new phone next to the old phone and follow a few prompts. Super easy. Just backup your old phone right beforehand and you’ll be all set.

9. Looking for long weekend trip recommendations for April. A girl friend and I are meeting up. She is coming from D.C. and I’m coming from Texas. We both prefer outdoor activities and , particularly hiking (hiking up an incline as opposed to flat trail walking). We also like the beach. Neither one of us cares very much about restaurants, shopping, or, for this trip, cultural attractions.
   We are open to all recommendations, but I was looking at Knoxville, TN and wondered if anyone had thoughts about it for a long weekend.

   1. Depending on how long of a weekend – USVI? St. John is great for beaches and hiking…

      1. Oh I like this idea!

   2. Native Knoxvillian…East Tennessee is fantastic! Knoxville itself doesn’t have that much in the way of outdoor activities (or much else, tbh), but there’s plenty of beautiful hiking within ~1 hour drive of the city.

      1. Thank you! We spent some time researching this weekend, and it appears Knoxville could be the perfect home base for the trip.

10. Anyone living someplace with high case rates and noticing some anxiety when they go out? IDK if this is a thing. I live in an apartment so getting out the door involves hallways and elevators and it’s luck of the draw whether others will be masked or not. So I don’t go out much. I know this was a point of contention during the original covid wave in spring 2020 with people calling elevator transmission crazy but it’s just what I think – a confined space where someone could get on unmasked isn’t the safest. Lately though I’ve noticed when I do go out – I’ll be in the car and say a half hour later, I’ll have noticeable GERD or tiredness or a headache and it’s like WTH?? If I continue on my way driving, listening to the radio, enjoying the sun if we have any and just being out [i.e. don’t say ok have to get home ASAP], the feeling passes in 5-10 min and then I’m fine whenever I head back home – not even worrying that much about the elevator ride back up. Is this anxiety?? It’s so random to feel physical symptoms a half hour after leaving home when the worry is the actual exiting??

    1. I almost always have a headache or feel tired after a high-stress situation is over. Is there a reason you are so anxious about catching Covid at this point – like are you high risk?

       1. OP here – yes. 3x vaccinated + wearing a kn95 but the risk factors are there.

          1. Then get an N95.

    2. I am vaxx’d and boosted but cases are high here and hospitals are full. Yes, I feel anxious when going out. So I have mostly stopped doing it, honestly.

       I can work exclusively from home. In order to avoid the exhaustion of risk calculations I am doing only curbside pickup for groceries and other items. I don’t see people in person right now (other than essential doctor visits, I have some issues going on) and I don’t go into buildings. We don’t have kids, and I have a rich Zoom life and a wife who is similarly covid cautious, so it works for us. I know many of you will think this is extreme but so many people around me are getting covid, even the boosted people, and I really want to avoid it if I can.

    3. Adrenaline let down?

    4. I feel like that after a stressful situation. And I’m having stress dreams about masks!

11. Sr. associate here. My deals closed by Christmas, so I got to coast for the rest of the year and even log off the last week of the year. I am having such a hard time getting motivated because nothing is on fire, but I’m starting to get a little behind, so I can’t just fully log off.

    How do you get motivated in the new year after a crazy biglaw year?

    1. I do biz dev and CLÉ.

    2. I am so with you. Haven’t figured out the answer. But I did not do well the past two weeks…

12. How much do you tip on Door Dash? Does it vary based on restaurant distance and/or order size? We place larger orders so their suggested tips (which I think are calculated using distance and $ value) often feel really high to me. It isn’t any more work for the driver to bring us $100 worth of food than $20 worth of food. But I’m curious what others do.

    1. Isn’t this the same as in a restaurant? If you order an expensive steak, the server doesn’t work harder than if you order a main course salad or a burger. You still tip on the cost of the meal.

       1. Right? Plus I have to imagine that’s such a crappy job and they are making your life so much easier — just suck it up and tip at least as much as suggested.

          To answer your question: I have been overtipping throughout the pandemic and plan to continue. At least 25% on an expensive order and as much as 50% on a low-cost order.

          1. Agree with the first paragraph, and cheers to the second. They don’t have time to tell you anything about their work day, but trust it is hard. And of course no benefits or PTO in the gig economy.

          2. This. Please tip well. Those companies prey on workers without a lot of options, and times are really hard. I recall a quote from a couple of years ago “If you’re concerned about income inequality, tip better”. No, I’m not personally responsible for some of the sh*tty things about our economy, but I feel like the least I can do is reward someone whose labor allows me to sit home in my cozy house waiting for over-priced takeout to be delivered. To be honest, I really hope that the current labor shortage gives us an economy where there are enough better paying jobs that fewer people have to labor as low-wage minions for the convenience of those of us slightly higher on the economic ladder.

             1. This. Do the right thing. Because Door Dash won’t.

          3. Came here to say both these things. I really appreciate the convenience and have been tipping more than usual. The total bill can give you sticker shock though!

          4. I have WFH guilt, so I think of it as basically hazard pay.

    2. I’ve not used Doordash – we do pick-up, or order from a couple of neighborhood places that do their own delivery – but does it allow you to tip both the restaurant staff and the driver? I’d say that the restaurant staff should get a higher tip for a more expensive or complicated order but the driver should get the same (generous) tip notwithstanding the cost of the food.

       1. I order this way too. I tip when I place the order and also give the delivery driver a cash tip.

       2. DoorDash tips go 100% to the driver. There’s no way to tip restaurant staff through the app as far as I know.

    3. Omg cheapskate

       1. Dante’s new inferno includes a level for bad tippers.

       2. Name-calling, very mature. I’m not a bad tipper. I’ve tipped $10-15 on $20 orders before. I just think that for the driver, their effort is correlated to mileage not dollar value. When I go to a restaurant or get takeout, I tip based on dollar value, but it doesn’t make sense to me that for a driver, who might have to spend an hour bringing a cheap order across town, but only 10 minutes bringing an expensive order from down the street.

          1. You’re definitely a cheapskate. Why did you even ask this question?

             1. To get a sense of what others do? Why does anyone ask anything here? If you think someone who regularly tips >50% is a cheapskate, you are an incredibly generous person. Congrats on being perfect! ?

             2. Sweetie, just take your lumps and be quiet.

          2. Late to this thread, but you’re not being a cheapskate. In an expensive restaurant, three things happen which justify the higher tips:
             1. The server MUST tip out the kitchen, host stand, table bussers, and bartender. Your server keeps a smaller percentage of that tip.
             2. You are at the table for a longer period of time. If you spend 1.5 hours at the Capitol Grille but only 45 minutes at PF Chang’s, of course you tip more!
             3. The server is expected to be more attentive and knowledgeable. You’re getting wine suggestions, details on food preparation, etc., and far more frequent (and subtle) check-ins for water, wine, another cocktail.

             I’m not convinced that any of that carries over to DoorDash. Doordash tipping is about bow gross the weather is, how bad the traffic is, and how far they have to go.

    4. We tip on the value of the food. I was a more reluctant tipper in the past but recently I have been trying to recognize & be grateful for the privilege I have in my life (like being able to afford $$ food delivery).

       The extra $5 means WAY more to the driver/server/restaurant than it does to me.

    5. Also, OP, reframe — it isn’t any less work for the driver to bring you $20 worth of food than to bring you $100 worth of food. C’mon, now.

       1. Yes, and when I order $20 I frequently tip way more than they suggest. It’s not about wanting to tip less but more just that the suggested tip based on dollar value doesn’t seem to correlate to the driver’s effort, which is based on mileage. I think averaged out I probably tip more than they suggest.

    6. tip based on the spend, not the theoretical minimum order – if you can afford to have $100 takeout you can afford a corresponding tip.

    7. I tip as if I got restaurant service, but I do not use Door Dash. All of the restaurants I order from have asked their customers not to use Door Dash (or its equivalents), with whom they have no contract but get listed on the Door Dash site anyway, and instead to order directly from the restaurant’s website. Door Dash preys on not only their drivers but also the restaurants. I guess it is easier for me to avoid as I live somewhere chock full of nearby spots where I can pick up if I can’t get delivery from the restaurant itself. Frankly, once I get to the Door Dash checkout and see all the fees, etc., I always nope out anyway. It’s pick up or figure something out at home for me.

       1. Our city has an independent service that you pay for as an addition to the food bill and I totally support it b/c the restaurants get paid, the delivery service gets paid, and then you can tip the driver. It’s only open nights/weekends, but I try to use them weekly b/c when COVID comes (as it will), I intend to feed myself through them b/c I am going to suffer through it with a full belly.

          Maybe your city does this also?

    8. I try to avoid using Door Dash as much as possible. Those food delivery Apps are destroying restaurants by taking huge chunks of their profits. They often charge the restaurant like 30% of the cost of your meal.

       I check to see if the restaurant has their own delivery service, and call the restaurant directly to order and use their delivery service and tip well. They make so much more money when I order this way that they tend to remember me.

    9. Comments have been tallied, minus posts by OP.

       Tip based on the cost of the order, or more: 14
       Consider not using Door Dash: 3
       Tip lower than suggested based on the cost of the order: 0

    10. We do a minimum of at least 25% and sometimes as much as 50%. We tip a higher percentage for larger orders because there’s more for the driver to pick up, check, transport and unload.

        If you really don’t think the labor is worth the money you’re paying, why don’t you go pick your food up yourself?

13. Seriously trying not to cry right now. I had cancer surgery in November and got mixed opinions on doing chemo. Opted not to do chemo with the caveat we would do close monitoring. Now finding out my colonoscopy is delayed at least two months and likely will be more because the hospital doesn’t have the staff thanks to managing Covid (has to be done there because I have a health condition where the anesthesiologists won’t do it in office). I’m so sick of the whole “freedom” stuff with the unvaccinated. You are literally taking others down with you. That’s the exact opposite of freedom in my book.

    I know I should just be thankful I had the surgery when I did. I should be thankful I’m not one of the beleaguered healthcare workers on the front lines. I should be thankful I’m in a country where we even have vaccine access. I know I have a lot to be thankful for. There are so many others in worse shape. It’s not like I’m in pain needing a knee surgery or something. But man am I just so frustrated with my fellow man right now.

    1. Oh, I’m so sorry that you’re dealing with this.
       I think you get to be upset without trying to force yourself to be thankful. You’re dealing with a scary thing and probably hearing an “all clear” would be a huge weight off your mind. And now, partially due to other people’s choices, you have to wait an extra two months to hear that all-clear.
       No, you get to be angry and un-thankful. And you get to try to get pushed to a higher priority or find a spot at a different hospital if you can, without feeling like you should just be grateful that you’re alive or whatever.
       Wishing you a speedy and uneventful colonoscopy.

    2. I’m so sorry about this, it must be really hard. One of my parents had a semi-serious health emergency arise recently, and we were very incredibly lucky that it appears to have resolved with outpatient treatment and didn’t require hospitalization, because hospitals where they live were totally overwhelmed at the time. I’m also so grateful that my doctors have been able to keep treating my chronic pain condition with in person appointments throughout the pandemic, but I’m sure it’s taking a toll on them. I know everyone keeps saying that we have to learn to live with covid because it’s never going away entirely. That’s certainly true, but it’s really clear that we’re not at a point where there aren’t huge costs associated with that for anyone who happens to work in health care or need health care.

    3. I am so sorry. I am having gastronomy issues that are currently undiagnosed and I needed both an endoscopy and colonoscopy at the end of December. I am in an area where hospitals are full but thankfully I could have this done at our local gastro practice. I am sure you have considered this, but in case there are any other practices that your insurance covers that can do the procedure, try checking those other providers? Maybe you could deal with the out of network costs if you drove a few hours to have the procedure done elsewhere?

       I realize none of this may be feasible and I don’t mean to be insensitive if you have no other options. Mostly I am so sorry you are dealing with this.

    4. +1 that you get to feel angry and desperate about this. It’s not ok and not fair.

       1. +1. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.

    5. Our team’s admin has been waiting for hysterectomy (I haven’t pried but I was told it was possibly cancer) since August. It was postponed in her area because hospitals were overwhelmed with Delta. It was rescheduled for January 10th…she has been told it might not happen. That is a heck of long time to wait with a sword hanging over your head.

    6. Hugs. I am so sorry for you. But to those unvaxxinated people who are indirectly responsible for all of this by not getting their shots in the first place, I say two things:

       1) TRIPEL FOOEY ON ALL OF YOU!

       2) YOU SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO USE THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEMS UNTIL AFTER THE PANDEMIC IS OVER. NO EXCEPTIONS.

       WHAT A BUNCH OF A-wipes!

    7. Girl, I feel this anxiety in my bones. I have not opted for a colonoscopy without sedation, but it has been offered to me. Perhaps this is an option to accelerate your timeline?

       Another option might be to pursue scheduling through a different health system that may have more slack? I would push your doctor to make something happen.

14. NYC Rettes! If you are looking for something to do Saturday night, 8pm, I have one extra Orchestra level seat to HAMILTON! It’s a $500 plus ticket that I am basically offering for free (genuine Ticketmaster transfer) since one member of our party dropped out and I don’t think I can sell it before tomorrow. You have to comply with the NYC theater COVID protocols, and tbh, I would give a preference to anyone willing to pay a minimum amount-say $100? to cover dinner for my (adult but unemployed) son and his girlfriend, since otherwise I am paying for their theater tickets and dinner as well! Shoot me a text at 585.615.9191 if you are interested.

15. Posting again since I am in mod. NYC Rette’s! I have a HAMILTON ticket for tomorrow night (1/8) at 8pm that I cannot use. Email me at ashinaman at icloud dot com for details if you are interested. Orchestra center, row K. Must be able to comply with NYC theater covid protocols. Great show!

    1. Good luck selling! Shared with a friend in NYC!

    2. I just sent to my sister in NYC. If I were there, I would be all over this.

16. This is a bit of a stupid question, but here goes. I’m on the grad scheme at a (non-law) company, and I have a performance review coming up soon (about a month and a half). I’ve been asking for feedback and I’ve spoken to the person who’ll be doing it (not my manager funnily enough – it’s based partially on his feedback, but not completely).

    Anyway, I basically knocked it out of the park at the casual intro/practice review a few months back, and I’m kind of screwed, as nothing else I do seems as cool now compared to one v. cool project? I do more work now than what I did back then, but it’s not all of the incredibly flashy CV-boosting variety (which is fine! I was the most junior person there by miles and I’m not expecting much more work like that for a few years yet!).

    If I were to do my performance review now, I’d apparently get the maximum score in 3/5 categories and one below the maximum / the maximum depending on my manager’s feedback in 2/5. The thing is, I feel that I definitely have enough stuff to back it up? I’m just so stressed right now.

    I need the maximum score, for promotion reasons, and also because I know that I’ll get so demotivated if I don’t get it? I’ve done a ridiculous amount of extra work and gotten myself a nice bonus, so missing out because I’m an insecure idiot who couldn’t self-promote properly would be infuriating.

    Any advice? Or free hugs? I need a hug, but I’m scared of telling family/friends, as I know it’s ridiculous and I should just get a grip. But the thought of having done all that work for nothing / no recognition, just because I didn’t want to risk coming across as arrogant / confident sucks, you know? :(

    1. First, hugs. Second, I don’t understand your performance review process but is there anything left you can do? Like a chat with your manager? I am in a role where I no longer do super projects, but I do a ton of “keeping the business running” work. My manager is a fan and reflects that in his feedback to me.
       One other thing, if you’re having trouble articulating all you’ve done, I walk through my calendar week by weeks. It helps me remember a bunch of smaller, value-added things I do.

       1. Also, ask people for hugs. If you feel silly about the reason, just say you’re stressed and need a hug.

    2. I have no idea what you are asking/saying here. It sounds like you have a lot of anxiety about maybe not getting perfect ratings at work even though you think you deserve it. If you need a hug, I will send you one virtually. If you want to appear more confident, one way to do that is to speak and write declarative sentences with a period at the end instead of a question mark to confirm that you mean what you say and are not constantly questioning yourself.

    3. If your company has a performance review system that is based on how “cool” your projects are as opposed to how good you are at your job, which for most people will mainly be unglamorous, that’s incredibly stupid and not your fault.
       But if you’re the one feeling bad about your work because it isn’t “cool” that’s something to reflect on. And you should reach out to your friends and family – they’ll want to support you and presumably won’t understand the details of what you do anyway. Good luck.

17. Hi Ladies,
    I’m a long time reader of this site, rarely comment but love learning from all you wise women. I wanted to consult the legal members of the hive. I’m sure some of you will tell me this is a terrible ideas, but I’m a subspecialty surgeon getting burnt out and am flirting with the idea of going to law school. When I’m recruited to do expert witness I find talking to the lawyers and learning about cases very interesting, and it seems like there could be a career niche for someone with an MD/JD. I appreciate that I probably wouldn’t make more money practicing law than I do in medicine, and I know the hours would still be long, but I think it would be something new and different, less physically burdensome (I do 10+ hour surgeries, which is harder as I get older), and with less of the moral distress I am experiencing in our teetering health system. Like almost all the docs I know, I am looking for an exit strategy and this sounds like a fun and interesting one. I think I would have to do part- time law school and maintain a part time surgical practice, as I don’t want to have zero income for 3 years, and when I search programs it seems like those part time degrees are mostly from lower tier law schools (correct me if I am wrong)- will that be a big issue in terms of getting a job after? I have Ivy League surgical training for what it is worth, so I would still have those institutions on my resume…
    I’m in my late 30s. Does this sound like a silly dream?
    Thanks all for your thoughts and advice!

    1. I’m in health care too, and totally agree on the “moral distress.” However, I’m not sure you’d be in a better situation as a lawyer. Do you intend to take high-paying legal work to pay back your law school tuition? Biglaw is not known for its moral rectitude. If not, and you plan to do public interest law, I suspect there’s a lot of moral distress there as well, of the kind that generally shows up in nonprofits.

       I can’t speak to the physical demands, but I’d be concerned that this is an expensive and very laborious way to end up in a similar moral situation.

       1. Thanks for your comment and its great to hear from someone else in heath care! I’m in the lucky situation that law school tuition wouldn’t be a big deal for me to eat that cost with my savings and wouldn’t put me in any debt, as I’ve been in practice for a while in a highly compensated specialty and paid back my med school debt a long time ago by working very insane hours for my first couple of years. I was envisioning something like legal counsel to a hospital… not big-law firm life.

          Although I know everyone is dealing with burnout right now, I do think its a bit different for administrators and people like our hospital lawyers, who aren’t having to actually having to see patients every day and tell them they can’t have optimal cancer care because all the resources are being dedicated to COVID care.. its a different world on the front-line in terms of being able to sleep at night, I think. But perhaps I am wrong and would love to hear from any lawyers not in the big-law life if this is an issue for them as well!

          1. Not sure this is 100% on point, but my sister got an associate’s degree in medical technology, and she made Dad happy, but she immediately abandoned all of that training as soon as she met Ed, and she bird-dogged him for 3 months until he asked her to marry her. Within the year, they had their first child, got married and moved to Chapaqua. Talk about a whirlwind change, but it worked out. They still live in Chapaqua, and have 4 kids, a dog, and a housekeeper / aupair. It can work out for you too!

    2. So, I am not a lawyer myself but a friend’s spouse is a Physics PhD from a Ivy who decided he was interested in law. He was able to get hired by a law firm without a law degree first as a “patent agent” and then after a year or two he transitioned to a second firm as a “scientific advisor.” He then went to law school part-time while working for the second firm (the firm afforded him the flexibility to do that since they wanted someone with his specialty knowledge so bad). Once he graduated from his law program he transitioned to being an associate at the same firm. His law school wasn’t a top tier school, but it was a solid one in his city that specialized in his niche of intellectual property/patent law, and the name of the school didn’t really mater that much anyway since he knew he was pretty much guaranteed a job at his firm upon graduation.

       I of course realize physics and medicine are different fields so I don’t know if there are niche areas of law where medical knowledge would be an asset. But this may be a route you could look into at least.

    3. Rather than going for the JD – because what you see as an expert witness is the fun & challenging tip of the iceberg, most of using a law degree is behind-the-scenes slogging – have you considered taking your MD to the business world? For example insurance companies have clinical departments that hire MDs. YMMV on whether the morality of that is better or worse but you’d be at a desk job rather than on your feet.

       1. Thanks Cat! That makes sense that the expert witness stuff I see might be more of the interesting stuff. It’s so interesting to delve into and understand the relevant laws and I always enjoy talking to the lawyers and they always make it sound so interesting and exciting! But I appreciate what you are saying, that maybe I’m not really seeing what the actual day-to-day is like.

          I have thought about the business world and have searched for opportunities at biotech and medical device companies, but I haven’t found an opportunity that seems like a good fit for a surgeon- I’m not sure a lot of the time how applicable my skills really are. For example, they always seem to be looking for MD lab directors, but I don’t actually have the skill set to run a lab. Lots of companies seem to want an MD to basically sell to other MDs, and that doesn’t interest me- I’m definitely not a salesperson. There are some exec type roles that I have skills for (managing teams/divisions, etc)- although I’m not sure how successful I would be since I wouldn’t really be using my medical degree, so I might just be an older and less experienced version of someone they could get from industry. I guess I should try and see! If anyone has a story of moving from medicine to a business career please share, I would love to hear what you do!!

          I do know an MD who is working for an insurance company, and that is just endless doc review all day, which doesn’t sound very appealing to me- I guess I was thinking of law as a new challenge and some new skills to learn, which is a major part of the appeal. Plus I hate insurance companies when they refuse to pay for things my patients need, so I don’t think I could bear to be the person making those denials!

          I appreciate your thought about looking into biotech/business stuff and I will delve into that a bit more and maybe reach out to some recruiters! Thanks for taking the time to comment and share your thoughts!

          1. I know three MD/JDs and one DDS/MD. Two MDs work on medical malpractice matters, one from the defense side and one from the plaintiff side. The other MD works on products liability matters associated with biotech, medical device and pharmaceutical concerns. The DDS works in forensic dentistry. I don’t know if this information is helpful but you might find it interesting.

          2. “Endless doc review all day” is pretty much the common denominator of legal jobs, broken up by conference calls :) Unless you’re planning on an academic career or perhaps one as a judge, most legal jobs are way more about being content to read and write by yourself than delve into interesting theoretical questions.

             1. I read that and laughed. I appreciate that the OP wants to make a change. I get it! I am trying to pivot too – out of traditional law. But law is a LOT of document review. I look at various documents all day long, and I can spin my job to sound super exciting to someone who isn’t in the industry!

                For the OP, you also need to keep in mind that if you are going to be a traditional lawyer, you are going to have to deal with clients and every single lawyer I know has difficult clients. You as the lawyer generally don’t get to make the decisions. They decisions are the clients’ and they are going to make bad ones and ones you don’t agree with but you still need to represent them “zealously.”

       2. I have business, no medical background and work in a pharma company. I confirm that we often struggle to recruit Medical Advisors (people with medical knowledge to prepare communication strategy of our products to healthcare professionals, preparing argumentations based on available studies etc) and we pay well. With your surgical background, I could imagine you working in a medtech company as you have first hand experience with HCP needs and requirements for that equipment – so a career in R&D or marketing or sales could be an option.

    4. As a lawyer, this sounds like a terrible idea, honestly. Can you ramp up your work as an expert witness? You would probably make more with less effort that way, unless you are thinking of suing doctors yourself and winning big contingency med mal cases. (Would you be good at the trial/appealing to the jury and judge part? Drumming up clients?) If you do pursue the law school path, you might be better served seeking a scholarship to attend full-time and finishing in three years than spending 5 or 6 working part-time as a surgeon while also going to law school. That seems unsustainable and like too much of a delay if what you really want is to get away from surgery and into the law (esp. if you are feeling your age, as stamina is a factor in law, as well, even though you are seated most of the time). Another option, if you want to get a basic law background for some kind of business job for which your M.D. is helpful, is to attend a one-year law certificate program. You wouldn’t be a lawyer, but you’d get a feel for legal concepts and how to research and interpret law, which you could then apply to be successful at that other job. But I would be shocked if you couldn’t get a full scholarship to a decent law school. Tell them in your essays and calls to admissions that you want to save the world, thought you could do it through medicine but now see how immoral medicine has become, and see now that the law is the light and you can’t help yourself but pursue justice through becoming a lawyer. They’ll eat that up, give you a full ride to diversify the class (they just need people over 25, doctor is major icing), use your photo and story to fundraise on, and you won’t have any actual obligation to go into public service of any kind after, so you can go be counsel to a hospital or biotech company or whatever no problem.

    5. It strikes me as a little inconsistent to leave medicine due to moral concerns about denying patients care. One fewer practicing surgeon results in more scarcity: higher demand for fewer resources, more patients denied care.
       Since it sounds like you have significant savings (law school tuition is no joke, so if you can float that out of savings there’s probably a pretty wild range of things you could do), if denying care is your concern, would it be possible to change jobs into something more public service oriented? What about practicing in another country? If you’re looking for new things to learn, that could really broaden your skills and challenge you with cases that are less common in your current location.

    6. I’m not sure if my previous reply from hours ago is still stuck in mod or if it just disappeared into the ether (so, sorry if this is a duplicate post), but here’s the cliffs notes version: I know an Ivy League Physics PhD who started at a law firm as a “science advisor” and then after a year or two when to law school part time while still working at the firm. Once he graduated from law school he became an associate at the same firm. They specifically recruited him to the firm for his specialized science knowledge and he now practices intellectual property and patent law. So, maybe look for a “science advisor” type position (medical advisor?) at a firm to see how you like the legal world before diving into law school.

       1. Thank you all for the thoughtful comments! This was very helpful!

       2. For OP’s sake, it’s worth noting that those advisor positions pay less than or around $100k. While a good salary, you may find that a hard adjustment. You may also struggle with how little respect the non-lawyer staff receive (think: being assigned a cubicle because offices are for attorneys, being excluded from department lunches for attorneys, etc).

          I would echo others suggesting that law school may not be the solution you are looking for. As a law student and junior lawyer, you will not be treated with deference and respect and your prior experience will be discounted. It’s why traditional firms largely struggle to retain mature junior attorneys – it’s a decade long slog in obscurity. Private legal practice is not for people who want to make a difference.

    7. Have you looked into/considered working at a pharmaceutical company in a medical director role? There are jobs for MDs on the “commercial” side of pharma, not only R&D/clinical side. I am on the consulting side, but work with many MD and PharmD clients who have made this transition after years of practice.

    8. Would it be possible to instead scale up your expert witness work and scale back your medical practice?
       Expert witnesses are given the good star treatment with lots of extra support to make sure things go smoothly, they have a good experience, and they can focus on the big picture thinking. Would you want to be the associate on the other side who is coordinating review of millions of documents to make sure you get the best ones, or staying up all night to be sure the formatting of your report is perfect? A challenge for career switchers is that even if they have extraordinary subject-matter expertise there isn’t usually a way to skip over the early years that are a huge grind. I wonder if some sort of exec MBA might be an easier way to pivot?

    9. Are you internationally mobile? Would you be interested at all in practicing as a physician but not a surgeon? If so, might check out joining the Foreign Service as an MD. Pay is six figures, though of course much lower than private practice, the challenges can be interesting (since it changes from country to country and you move throughout your career), and I can say that from my years in the FS I really really counted on our medical practitioners in very difficult situations (a toddler hospitalized with suspected malaria in rural Europe while we were on R&R from our South Asia post? done it; getting an IV from our medical staff at 3 a.m. in my living room when I’m violently ill with some parasite while 6 months pregnant? done it; dealing with kidney stones in a war zone? done it). Just a left field suggestion you might want to consider.

18. Thanks for your comment and its great to hear from someone else in heath care! I’m in the lucky situation that law school tuition wouldn’t be a big deal for me to eat that cost with my savings and wouldn’t put me in any debt, as I’ve been in practice for a while in a highly compensated specialty and paid back my med school debt a long time ago by working very insane hours for my first couple of years. I was envisioning something like legal counsel to a hospital… not big-law firm life.

    Although I know everyone is dealing with burnout right now, I do think its a bit different for administrators and people like our hospital lawyers, who aren’t having to actually having to see patients every day and tell them they can’t have optimal cancer care because all the resources are being dedicated to COVID care.. its a different world on the front-line in terms of being able to sleep at night, I think. But perhaps I am wrong and would love to hear from any lawyers not in the big-law life if this is an issue for them as well!

19. Thanks Cat! That makes sense that the expert witness stuff I see might be more of the interesting stuff. It’s so interesting to delve into and understand the relevant laws and I always enjoy talking to the lawyers and they always make it sound so interesting and exciting! But I appreciate what you are saying, that maybe I’m not really seeing what the actual day-to-day is like.

    I have thought about the business world and have searched for opportunities at biotech and medical device companies, but I haven’t found an opportunity that seems like a good fit for a surgeon- I’m not sure a lot of the time how applicable my skills really are. For example, they always seem to be looking for MD lab directors, but I don’t actually have the skill set to run a lab. Lots of companies seem to want an MD to basically sell to other MDs, and that doesn’t interest me- I’m definitely not a salesperson. There are some exec type roles that I have skills for (managing teams/divisions, etc)- although I’m not sure how successful I would be since I wouldn’t really be using my medical degree, so I might just be an older and less experienced version of someone they could get from industry. I guess I should try and see! If anyone has a story of moving from medicine to a business career please share, I would love to hear what you do!!

    I do know an MD who is working for an insurance company, and that is just endless doc review all day, which doesn’t sound very appealing to me- I guess I was thinking of law as a new challenge and some new skills to learn, which is a major part of the appeal. Plus I hate insurance companies when they refuse to pay for things my patients need, so I don’t think I could bear to be the person making those denials!

    I appreciate your thought about looking into biotech/business stuff and I will delve into that a bit more and maybe reach out to some recruiters! Thanks for taking the time to comment and share your thoughts!

20. Thank you all for the thoughtful comments! This was very helpful!

    1. I recommend reaching out to MD/JDs on LinkedIn or via email and asking for their advice specifically and taking a look at their career paths.

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