Frugal Friday’s TPS Report: Juin Scoop Neck Stretch Cotton Tee

Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Juin Scoop Neck Stretch Cotton TeeI mentioned the Theory sale yesterday, but thought I’d use the Juin tee for today’s TPS — even though it’s $75 at full prie, readers have said numerous times that this was one of their top tees for wearing under suits. And at 95% pima cotton, 5% spandex, I can see why — it’s soft, opaque, and just a little bit stretchy. At the Theory sale it comes down to $37.50, too, in both black and white — not bad at all. Juin Scoop Neck Stretch Cotton Tee

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Comments

  1. Last night I finally got around to trying the Loreal knockoff version of the YSLTouche Eclat. Rave reviews! I might even like the Loreal version better, as it seems to go on more smoothly with less of a chalky feel to it. Though my SO was shocked it cost $14, and even more shocked when I said this was the “budget” version!

    • What name is their knockoff version sold as?

      • The Magic Lumi Highlighter Pen. I normally used the second lightest YSL shade, and the Light shade was a perfect match.

    • KansasAnalyst :

      I’m going to buy this then- my under eye circles have people constantly asking me if I’m tired… boo.

      TJ-

      ELLEN!
      Did anyone answer you about your question regarding the partner buy-in? If I can add my opinion this is what I would ask for before plopping down any money.

      1. I would ask to see the last three years (at least) of the company’s tax returns and company prepared financial statements. Also ask for the most recent interim statements. This is important in order to see how the company is doing financially.
      2. How are the partners compensated? I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know how managing partners are compensated vs. um regular lawyers? Do they get a set % share of the profits related to their membership equity or do they “keep what they kill?” meaning that they get a % of the business that THEY bring in.
      3. What kind of return on your investment would you require, given the risk?
      4. If you are going to be a managing partner, do you get to buy in a controlling portion, i.e. be able to make decisions? If you don’t get to be a controlling partner, demand a deep discount because you are giving them money that you have much less control over!

      Sorry if this question was already answered; I just have been thinking about it this week and wanted to follow up. Ellen, if you need help analyzing the numbers, I can set up a separate g-mail account and you can send me the numbers (feel free to redact the names and sensitive information of course!)

      • Wow! Thank you SOOOOO much for this insight!

        Unfortuneately, I do NOT know all the answer’s to these question’s JUST yet, but I am going to print out and show them to my dad. For #1 Frank prepare’s the finanecial statements with a CPA firm who’s name I do not have handy, but there’s a guy who comes around every year to do the taxes too. (He is always sweateing and sometime’s asks me where the pantry is b/c we have cold soda’s there).

        For #2, we get salaries and I think the partner’s get a draw and then a profit shareing that they have to pay taxe’s on. Roberta and Dad think I should negotieate to get a share of my own business, but I do not think the manageing partner is goieing to be happy if we ask for that, personaeally.

        For #3, I have to ask my dad. He says I am not getting alot in my 401K, but I think he said it is insured and exempt from taxes. My dad makes all my investment’s for me so he should tell me this.

        For #4, I am only goieing to be a JUNIOR partner, and I do not know what kind of vote I will get. No one has shown me anything yet, and that is why my dad keeps talking about do diliegeince.

        The manageing partner alway’s keeps everything closed to the vest, so I wonder if he is even goieing to share anything with me.

        Thank you again. It is great to know that I have good freind’s in the hive who know about these things. This way, I can tell my dad FOOEY when he asks if I shouldn’t get Alan involved here. He would NOT be of much help anyway, as he drink’s all the time. DOUBEL FOOEY!

        • KansasAnalyst :

          Ellen- if the managing partner won’t give you this information I would say DO NOT put any money in. If you wanted to invest in a company and they refused to provide you with their financial history, would you still give them money? I also spoke with my boss about this and he agreed. The partners may need some liquidity injected into the practice which is why they offered. Don’t take that the wrong way- I always am suspicious and assume the worst about deals. My boss has seen that happen before and the business closed down less than a year later.

          I think number crunching is fun so I would love to help. :)

      • Do you know Ellen is a fake personality?

        • This is a complex situation, because a substantial minority of my readers do believe Ellen’s posts track at least somewhat with a real person’s real experience (http://ellenwatch.blogspot.com/2012/08/results-of-poll-2.html). Thus, on some level, her question might be genuine. The prospect of her emailing KansasAnalyst, however, is still 3-alarm for me.

          I will hold off blogging this until the immensely generous KA has had a chance to respond.

          Love,
          ELLENWatch

          • Anne Shirley :

            @EllenWatch- this Ellen above sounds like an imposter to me

          • e_pontellier :

            Ditto to Anne Shirley. ELLEN always comments about many different topics in her posts, and rarely stays on the same topic for more than one paragraph.

          • Maybe I’m naive but I kind of thought Ellen was real. Exxagerated but definitely a real person.

        • It’s funny, this is the first time I’ve seen Ellen respond directly to someone. It’s almost like she’s real…

        • FOOEY! then who is typeing this, then?

          If I was a FAKE, then who is sitteing at the keyboard right now?

          The manageing partner (or Frank)? DOUBEL FOOEY! Of course not!

          They are both to busy stareing at my tuchus all day b/c I am very REAL!

          I can’t wait for our holiday party. Yay!

          • KansasAnalyst :

            I thought you were real… I hoped you were. @ Ellenwatch- Darn! I guess I didn’t get the joke? I just thought she was really funny but I didn’t know there were questions on if she was real or not..

          • I think it was very kind of you to respond and your advice was good.

      • lucy stone :

        Try the Clinique Dark Circle Corrector. It is amazing.

  2. Reposting: I need some shopping help! I’m looking for a two-tone watch in the $100-$150 range. Stylish, durable, not too big, not too small. GO! (Thanks!)

    • How about a Seiko SXE586 Women’s Le Grand Sport Two-tone Watch?

      • I have a very similar Seiko and love it. I wear it every day because it can be dressed up or down.
        If you’re not in a rush to buy it, sample sale sites are a great place to find watches; my husband got me the Seiko on R–L-L- for about half off.

    • Seiko probably has several options in your price range. I’ve had a small (less than 1/2 inch) watch since 2004 and have only needed to change the battery one.

  3. springtime :

    From another blog I read, the sparkly top that was featured here awhile ago, styled three ways:

    http://cupcakesandcashmere.com/page/2/

  4. KansasAnalyst :

    I’m going to buy this then- my under eye circles have people constantly asking me if I’m tired… boo.

    TJ-

    ELLEN!
    Did anyone answer you about your question regarding the partner buy-in? If I can add my opinion this is what I would ask for before plopping down any money.

    1. I would ask to see the last three years (at least) of the company’s tax returns and company prepared financial statements. Also ask for the most recent interim statements. This is important in order to see how the company is doing financially.
    2. How are the partners compensated? I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know how managing partners are compensated vs. um regular lawyers? Do they get a set % share of the profits related to their membership equity or do they “keep what they kill?” meaning that they get a % of the business that THEY bring in.
    3. What kind of return on your investment would you require, given the risk?
    4. If you are going to be a managing partner, do you get to buy in a controlling portion, i.e. be able to make decisions? If you don’t get to be a controlling partner, demand a deep discount because you are giving them money that you have much less control over!

    Sorry if this question was already answered; I just have been thinking about it this week and wanted to follow up. Ellen, if you need help analyzing the numbers, I can set up a separate g-mail account and you can send me the numbers (feel free to redact the names and sensitive information of course!)

  5. Can’t believe such moronic judges still keep their jobs with a mere slap on the wrist.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/13/judge-derek-johnsons-rape_n_2297379.html

  6. I’m a lawyer who was recently laid off and I’ve been offered a new position. It’s in a new city, far enough away that I will be moving. Should I/can I ask for a relocation allowance? And any tips for meeting new friends? I’ve moved cities before but only for school, so, I’m worried about being lonely, especially since I tend toward introversion, so it will take a while before I really feel the need to make new friends.

    • Blonde Lawyer :

      It doesn’t hurt to ask. I received one for my first job. It was a max of 10% of my salary. I used it for movers, a trip to find a place to live, and the cost of getting a new license, registration, etc.

    • I asked for my job (moved 200 miles for it). They didn’t give it to me, but were not surprised I asked. In retrospect, I should have gently pushed a bit harder. Moving expenses for work may be tax deductible, so save your receipts!

    • Absolutely ask. They may not pay the whole thing but even a couple grand will put a dent in the expenses.

    • Woods-comma-Elle :

      If I were moving to a new city, I would tell people here where it is as there are readers everywhere and you might meet people that way :-)

      And yes, ask, even if they don’t give it to you at least you asked.

    • Finding friends in a new city :

      maybe join your university or law school alumni associations? Or meet-up groups for something you’re interested in? Knitting, hiking, vegetarian cooking, etc.

  7. My dad gave me his Christmas list for this year (yes, we still exchange lists) and on it he put the James Bond 007 cologne. Has anyone actually smelled this stuff? My dad’s been a James Bond fan since the 60s, so I think that’s a big part of way he’s asking for it.
    It seems to be getting good reviews, but it looks like not many places are carrying it so I’ll probably end up buying it online. I don’t mind getting it for him (maybe it’ll finally encourage him to start dating again *sigh*), just don’t want to spend the money if it doesn’t smell good.

    • No idea about the cologne but that’s adorable!

    • Middle Coast :

      Who cares what it smells like if it makes him feel good about himself? Hopefully it will put him in the right frame of mind (sexy older man) that he does start to think about dating.

      That said, there is a chemical reaction between the wearer’s body and the cologne. After the reaction a particular smell will be produced. This smell will differ from every individual, so even though it may smell good in the bottle, it will smell differently once its worn.

      • Also, he might just be asking for it for the novelty aspect. Even so, I agree with Middle Coast, if having it on his dresser makes him feel more Bond-like, I think it’s a great gift :)

  8. Is anyone having problems ordering from the BrooksBrothers web site (not to mention the fact that there is still no size chart!).

  9. Anon for this :

    I just want to thank the posters who candidly wrote on two separate threads that we should remember that not everyone is as smart, organized, capable, whatever, as us. It sounds really conceded and condescending to say that but it really resonated with me and is helping me deal with my staff. I was not one of the original posters asking for advice. I tend to get really annoyed (privately) with a couple people on my support staff because I feel like I always have to teach them something basic, or show them again, or it takes longer for them to do something than I think it should, or they aren’t as organized and I need to remind them to complete a task. It really really really helps to remember that “those tests were right” and just because I can pick something up like *that* doesn’t mean everyone is as equally capable. Instead of being annoyed with their questions I’m re-framing my thinking to remember that they may need more guidance. It is not that they don’t care, they just have different abilities. Instead I am happy they are asking and I can show them how I want it done. I may still be annoyed when it is not done the way I just showed them but again, I will remember the learning curve. I’ll also take more time explaining why something wasn’t exactly right instead of just fixing it myself. Otherwise, they won’t learn to do it right in the future. Your post was so eye opening for me.

    • Yeah, I agree. I thought that was a great point that we so often forget.

    • “It is not that they don’t care, they just have different abilities. Instead I am happy they are asking and I can show them how I want it done.” – I LOVE this way of thinking. Rock on.

    • Well said. It is tough not to get frustrated and just write people off, but I think your approach is the right one.

    • momentsofabsurdity :

      I agree. I have a younger sibling who struggles a great deal in school. She will go on to college, but probably not to a high powered career that so many of you ladies excel in. My parents have tried to help her wherever possible, but sometimes, she just comes up against the limits of her own abilities. I see how frustrating that is for her, and how upset she gets, and how she feels like the stupidest person in the whole world. I see how incredibly hard she tries, but even when she tries, she sometimes just doesn’t have the capacity to succeed. Sometimes I worry, that when she graduates from college, she’ll have a boss that will expect things done a certain way that will just be beyond her. I worry that this will demoralize her further. I worry that she can’t embrace the wonderful things about herself – she’s incredibly kind, she can make a friend out of anyone, she’s the sweetest kid I know, she’s beautiful, she’s strong – because the world around her condemns her for not being able to excel academically and, eventually, professionally, and she may never be able to.

      My whole life, I’ve always been “smart.” When I did poorly in things, which I have, I could easily attribute it to the fact that I hadn’t really tried hard enough. I never doubted that if I *did* try hard enough, I could at least be “okay” if not extraordinary. I went to a well regarded college and will go to a well regarded graduate school, and am generally typically around my intellectual or professional “peers.” I think my younger sibling is often an incredible reality check for me – that there are people everywhere who struggle just as hard to be what I see as “okay” or “mediocre” as I do to “excel.” People for whom doing something I see as “easy” is an enormous feat. And they’re not bad people, or lazy people, or dumb people. They’re people that are doing the best they can with what they have. And that’s really all you can ask for out of the people in the world.

      • Great response, I so agree. My niece is this way, she’s sweet and kind and loving but just not gifted intellectually. She may go to community college, but that would probably be really challenging for her. She just got a job, and it’s challenging for her. We are all happy she was able to get something.
        It’s hard because when you talk about this people think you’re being snotty. But it really does help to remember that everyone doesn’t have the same abilities. And when you tend to have friends that have similar intellectual capabilities to your own, it’s easy to forget. When I find myself getting really annoyed with someone, and thinking to myself “OMG, is it really *that* hard to do X?!?” I try to remind myself that actually, for that person, maybe it IS, and I should just chill a little.

        • What works best for me is to think about the things that are seriously challenging for me. I’m not good at sports. At. All. Going out for a 3 mile run and keeping up a 10 min/mi pace is a real achievement. Meanwhile, I have a friend who can bang out 6 min mile after 6 min mile seemingly forever. For some people, doing intellectually challenging things is like what running is for me. Even with lots of hard training, a 6 min mile just ain’t happening for me.

      • I totally agree. I have a bil who frequently refers to himself as stupid, especially around dh (3 degrees) & I (degree & professional designation). However, he’s a house framer and has an amazing 3-D spacial ability. He’s the one you want helping you move because he can picture how the couch will fit through the door, or the best way to pack things in the truck. He also can look at a set of blueprints & see in his mind how it translates into a 3-D house. I get upset with him when he says stuff like that (I consider him my little brother as dh & I got married 18 years ago when he was 14, even though he’s 6’4″ and 280lbs) and remind him his talents lie elsewhere and not everyone can be book smart.

        We constantly talk to our boys (who have a really strange collection of giftedness, learning challenges & ADHD) about how different people have different strengths & weaknesses and how we shouldn’t look down on or be rude to those who may have challenges in school because they have something else in another part of their life that they are good at. We just might not know what it is.

        • MaggieLizer :

          Totally agree with your last paragraph, and it’s great that you talk to your kids about that. It’s really a shame that school places such a heavy emphasis only on a particular set of skills but more or less ignores other super important life skills (like emotional IQ or charisma) that are much more critical in the real world than being book smart. There are plenty of people that are way more successful than I will ever be who did not get straight As through school, and it’s sad and unfair that some of those people were made to feel “stupid” when they were kids because they didn’t understand fractions or weren’t good at spelling.

        • It always saddens me when my younger brother refers to himself as “stupid”. He’s actually quite smart but his reference point is his two older siblings who were both “book smart.” He has a high GPA, is athletic, and has several other amazing skills (can fix all sorts of things). I couldn’t do half the stuff he does on a daily basis, and I always end up telling him that.

      • SmartyPants :

        It’s so easy to filter “success”, “ability” and “intelligence” through the sharply focused lens of our intellectually challenging professional world. I have a relative who is not the sharpest tool in the shed. He does has extraordinarily good people skills and a good work ethic. By his late 30′s, he had worked his way to mid-level management in an international company. He travels internationally for work and has time and money to enjoy his hobbies of pleasure travel, motorcycles and flying his own plane. He recent turned down an even better position with his company in their home country because he didn’t even want to think about separating his children from his first marriage from their mother. As someone who is reasonably successful in the legal profession, and who is intellectually “gifted” enough to feel frustrated with the other 99% when they just don’t keep up with my thought process, I look as this relative and am reminded that smarts do not equal success and are not the measure of a person.

      • My brother struggled in school. He graduated from college with a bachelors degree in something I thought was kind of easy, I can’t even remember now what it was. Anyway, he’s always been the kind of person who had lots of friends, very creative, just a really nice guy. He worked for many years in a job that I thought was horrible, working for a company with a tyrant of a boss. But he learned the business, eventually struck out on his own, and has a very successful business of his own now. Makes a heck of a lot more than I do with my JD. People who struggle in school may turn out to be more successful than you think, sometimes it’s just a matter of finding their niche. And today’s receptionist may be tomorrow’s business owner. People move from lower jobs to higher jobs, and have different strengths. I try never to think someone is not as intelligent as I am, just because they don’t get the finer points of the law.

    • Sometimes when I read this blog and scoff at the women struggling with their weight I remind myself, “Not everyone is as beautiful as I am. I am naturally blessed with being the perfect specimen of the female human form. For some people…putting down a donut is difficult.”

      • I know you wrote this to be unkind and mock the OP – but I am one of those for whom putting down that donut *is* diffficult, and it’s not a bad comparison in some ways. Some people *are* either naturally blessed with great bodies or else have the discipline and motivation I lack to eat healthily and exercise regularly. I may admire them for that; they may admire me for my book smarts. We both have strengths and weaknesses.

    • Need to Improve :

      I was the original poster and I really appreciated all the advice. I am working hard to improve thanks to you ladies!

  10. Any tips for books, blogs, etc on running a law firm, making one more profitable, or anything related? My very small firm could use some improvements and is asking for ideas, so I thought that this could be a good thing to study up on while I’m on maternity leave, and hopefully this could improve my take as well.

    • Have you read Lawyerist? It’s a blog that often has articles dealing with sole practictioners, but I find some of the advice interesting, and probably applicable to a small firm.

  11. I am glad you conceded that you are unjustifiably conceited.

    conceded: to acknowledge as true, just, or proper; admit
    conceited: having an excessively favorable opinion of one’s abilities, appearance, etc.

    • I am glad that you managed to nitpick a heartfelt moment of growth. Nice job.

    • Susan (edna_mode_nyc) :

      I’m glad you’re so pedantic. And oh, bonus points for the dictionary condescension.

    • The post above essentially said “thanks for reminding me not everyone is as smart as I am”, so I thought the typo was funny

      • Anon for this :

        I wrote the original post and thought the typo was funny too. I also wasn’t trying to say I’m smarter than everyone. I was trying to say we all have different abilities and there are certain intellectual things I grasp quicker than others. I have my weaknesses and spelling and grammar are my biggest two challenges. I thank the Lord for technology daily.

        • Anonymous :

          I pointed out the typo. I meant it as a joke. I appreciate the fact that you got it and your humble response very much. You seem truly lovely as a person, and I hope you really did take it in this spirit and not as a jab.

    • dafuq?

      Seriously, I step away for a few days and everything goes right down the c r a p p e r?

  12. TJ…. re holiday party attire. So I am planning on attending my husband’s office holiday party this evening — from 5 to 7:30. So, cocktails, etc. Any wisdom on whether I should dress in a cocktail dress or go with something a little more “festive business”? FWIW, he’s in a biglaw firm (but kind of mid-law, in the grand scheme, since we’re in a smaller city), and I’m an attorney as well.

    I’ve brought 2 options with me to work: 1. A black velvet cocktail dress (has sort of a pretty, subtle floral design within the velvet); and 2. A burgundy peplum sweater, with a J.Crew teal wool skirt (super-120s). Both would be accessorized with sheer black hose, a small black beaded clutch and suede strappy pumps.

    Right now I’m tempted to go with the 2nd option for warmth. And since it’s right after work. Thoughts? Thanks!

    • I like the sound of option 2 personally – I feel like Friday after work parties are likely not that formal and while I like the sound of your velvet dress, you may feel more comfortable in the skirt and sweater.

      • Susan (edna_mode_nyc) :

        I’d go with option 2, as well. Between two generally appropriate options, I’ll always opt for comfort. But you may have a different tolerance level on that, so YMMV. :-)

    • Kontraktor :

      I like the second option.

    • momentsofabsurdity :

      I would wear #2. I’m sure many people will be coming straight from work and you will not be looked askance at.

      Also, warmth. Why aren’t party clothes warmer? I am so looking forward to my ugly sweater pub crawl because it finally means that while barhopping, I’m going to be WARM.

      • Amen! I am a perpetually cold person anyway, and at this time of year, I seriously consider being a shut-in! Add slinky party clothes to the mix, and I really am in he[ck].

    • Thanks, Everyone, for confirming my instincts…. I am always second-guessing myself with these kinds of things.

    • LLM in BsAs :

      To TJ your TJ…
      It’s my office’s holiday/year end c*cktail on Monday. Sadly, the dress code is “informal c*cktail attire” (WTH?) as in, men are not required jackets or ties. I am in the Southern hemisphere, so hot as h*ck. Open toed shoes and bear legs are usual at the office. Plus, it’s casual summer.
      Attire suggestions?
      I have two options:
      1) a Black short-is dress with thin spaghetti straps and a muted red and green floral print. The dress is older than me, since it was my grandmother’s.
      2) a Black Ann Taylor dress with a v-neck and an A-line pleated skirt (knee lengh or so) that is a couple of years old.

      Added to that, I had a baby about four months ago and am Bfeeding, so my b**bs are… ehem… “noticable”.
      Most people will be going straight from the office and won’t change (I am on a part time schedule so I get to go home, shower, change and leave).

      Ideas? Suggestions?
      (and yes, Monday c*ocktail party… never good).

      • I wouldn’t do anything with thin straps like that for a work function, so I vote for #2. Plus it will gover up the girls.

  13. Does the model have the shirt tucked in, or is it just that short? Us long-waisted ladies are always leery of shirts that ride short . . .

  14. Where do people buy knee-highs anymore? By knee-highs, I mean those stockingy socks that people wear with dress shoes. I tried at Target, TJMaxx, and Macy’s, but there were none to be found. Are they outdated? And if so, what do you wear in the winter so that your feet aren’t exposed to the elements?

    • Kontraktor :

      I’m surprised you couldn’t find them at those places because I have bought knee-highs at all those places, recently too. Maybe check a drug store (CVS, Walgreens, etc) because I find the cheap L’eggs type of knee-highs work fine. I find I don’t care as much about the color of them (since you only see the tiny bit of foot color), so I can buy cheaper varieties. I like knee-highs to wear with pants when it’s a bit colder outside, or sometimes my feet hurt a bit so I like to have the stockings between feet and shoes.

    • I order mine from One Hanes Place. I get the silk reflections ones in nude-for-me and also in their off-black color (which is like a sheer dark grey).

    • CVS and Target usually have them. Maybe try online?

    • I also get mine at CVS.

    • Backgrounder :

      CVS or Walgreens…the ones near me always have them

    • Mountain Girl :

      I get my solid navy and black socks from Lands End. They last forever and the toe seam doesn’t feel like you have a rock in your shoe.

    • Recently, I have found them at Target. They have fun patterns (fishnet, dots, etc) too.

      • Also, I find that the fun patterned ones hold up better than the plain “nude” kind – they are a bit more substantial but not as bulky as trouser socks.

    • I’ve bought some recently at Nordstrom Rack and DSW. I’m pretty sure they also have them at Target, though — make sure to check both the hosiery section and the sock section.

    • Kohls, Target, DSW. I think I might have even seen some at the Gap recently. Did not know these were an endangered species, although perhaps you live someplace warm where people have less use for kneesocks?

    • Middle Coast :

      JC Penny’s has a store brand which are indestructible, I think its Worthington. They last forever with proper care. You might also want to look for trouser socks, which are a little thicker and warmer than knee highs.

    • Do knee-highs exist for those that are generous of calf? They squeeze the tops of my calves to the point of discomfort so I avoid wearing them. Maybe I need a different type?

      • I’ve seen them at the Hanes Leggs Bali outlet. I haven’t really looked elsewhere. Makes One Hanes Place online?

      • I, too, have fatted calves. Leggs sells boxes of knee highs in nude and black that come in “plus size”
        and I love them! Cheap enough to be disposable, but I usually get a few washes and wears out of them. They are so much more comfortable on my 16″ calves — I’m never going back. They are in the same bright pink box as the regular sized option; I’ve had luck finding them at CVS, Target, Rite Aid.

        • I have adopted the term fatted calves too. Though I probably should stop using it when SO asks why I’m still looking at zappos boots instead of just ordering something already.

  15. They usually have them at Banana Republic. I also have a multi-pack of Nine West ones I got at DSW.

  16. PSA – always remember to bring your emergency nice clothes back in from the dry cleaners. Says the woman who just had a meeting in jeans. TGIF

  17. Susan (edna_mode_nyc) :

    I know there are a number of folks here who prefer the quiet cars (if available), but every now and then, some of the folks who have “cell yell” on the train say unintentionally funny things and they make me glad I’m not in the quiet car.

    This morning, a guy in my train car was arguing with his girlfriend and one of the things he said was: ” Look! I’m just not that romantical! But you gotta believe I love you, baby, OK? OK?….”

    So, in honor of his cell-yell personality, I think I’ll write him a musical number to sing. The lyrics will be:

    “Baby, baby,
    I’m practical, not romantical,
    So the next time you have a birthday and you expect it to be magical,
    Please don’t hope for a sparkly gift metallurgical
    Don’t be skeptical,
    Don’t be quizzical,
    And certainly not hyper-critical,
    When I gift you a wastepaper receptacle!
    So, even if I’m not romantical,
    At least you know I’m poetical!”

    I want some Gilbert & Sullivanesque music to go with this, actually.

  18. e_pontellier :

    I need some hive hugs to get through today, the weekend, and my last 2 finals (early next week). Things have gone from great to terrible with DH and my family, I’m freaking exhausted and want to be done already, we have no holiday plans so DH will likely complain that I am so boring and I am holding him back from the fun and exciting things he wants to do, I tried really hard to find adorable affordable christmas gifts that I’m afraid he will find stupid, and I’m just f*cking exhausted. I’m hoping to get together with a friend next week to discuss how she got out of her marriage (also, anyone else want to discuss that with me?) and my heart is just so broken. I’m in the library trying to study but I’m a wreck. Sorry for the sad post.

    • Hugs and strength.

      I’m sorry you are so exhausted. Your situation sounds really rough, but it does sound like you are approaching everything with open eyes and an open mind, which I think is positive, no matter the outcome.

      I don’t really have any words of wisdom for you (and I’m not local) but I hope you find the peace and happiness you deserve!

      • Also? If your H (I dropped the D because he doesn’t sound like he’s earned it) wants “fun and exciting things” to do, then he can f’ing be a responsible adult and plan them. Complaining that your life isn’t what you want it to be, and then doing nothing to make it what you want it to be, and blaming someone else = not cool. Even, I may say, DOOSH-y.

        • This was my first thought, too.

          Hang in there! At this time next week when your finals are over and you can get a real night’s sleep you will feel SO much better.

    • momentsofabsurdity :

      I’m so sorry you’re going through this. If your H is complaining about the lack of holiday plans, I would respond with a calm, “I’m sorry. I assumed if you were hoping to do something, you would have made the plans.” If he thinks your Christmas gifts are dumb: “I thought these presents were cute, and it’s unfortunate you don’t agree. I hope you know that I did try hard to find you something you would like that is still in our budget.”

      I hope you are able to get together with your friend. If I remember right, you were also considering traveling to a friend’s home over the holidays (?) and I hope you’re able to do that, and get the break it sounds like you both need and deserve.

    • I am so so sorry. I have no great advice, but if you want a sympathetic ear, post an anon email and I’m happy to email you offline to help in any way I can. Can you go to a hotel for even just a night to recharge? Stay at a friend’s place?

      If your husband complains to you about being bored tell him he’s an adult and can go find something to do on his own. And then put on headphones and give him the silent treatment. Maybe not the most mature thing to do, but I feel like you’ve tried all those routes so maybe just focus on protecting yourself emotionally from now on.

    • I’m so sorry, this sounds like a really tough situation. For me it helps to break things down and focus on one thing at the time (e.g., first I get through finals, then I deal with my home situation, then I try to figure out the next thing). One step at a time. Sometimes you just have to repeat to yourself “left foot, right foot” to get through weeks like this. Be kind to yourself, get help where you can. Hugs.

      • Sending lots of hugs as well. Finals necessitates a sort of “survival mode”. Take care of yourself and prioritize your studying, that’s the most important right now. Try not to devote any mental energy to DH and his problems, as there’s little you can do besides cause yourself anguish. He’s an adult and can entertain himself while you focus on school – it’s not your problem if the holidays don’t live up to his expectations.

    • Hugs. Focus on studying as distraction (I know, ridiculous) and take each day as it comes. I agree that if he wants something fun to do, nothing stops him from planning those fun things. Also, try to stop with the parade of horribles that is going through your head. Don’t anticipate that he will be a butt/ say inconsiderate thing/ not like your presents until those things actually happen. You can’t be proactive about that type of thing and to spend time worrying about it now will drain you of the energy you need if those things do happen.

    • Blonde Lawyer :

      Hugs! I have no real advice but just remember everything is harder during law school finals. Be kind to yourself. If your home life isn’t stable enough for you to get rest there, tell hubby you need to get through finals and are staying with a friend until finals are over. You will deal with life after finals which should just be a week or two.

      You are in NYC right? Email me offline regarding a potential new friend I can introduce you to. [email protected]. The details would out me and this person.

    • Hugs and rawrs. You know my schedule for next week – let’s romp around the city.

    • Sydney Bristow :

      I’m so sorry EP. Your exhaustion completely comes through in this post. Is there any way that you can completely tune out the world with headphones and music so you can push through your last 2 finals? I sometimes find it helpful to wear headphones even if I’m home alone because it seems to cocoon me somehow and then listen to music that is really repetitive that I haven’t really heard much before so that I don’t start thinking about things that I associate with more popular songs. It sounds weird, but I found dubstep to be particularly helpful. Anything to prevent thinking about it all for awhile to get through something else that has to be done. Hugs.

    • Susan (edna_mode_nyc) :

      *hugs* *tea & sympathy*

      I know it’s hard to study when your world is reeling with so much unpleasantness, but I’d focus on you right now. Do well in your exams, pamper yourself, ignore your husband’s protests.

      Your husband’s not bedridden and comatose, right? So if he’s able to wiggle his fingers and he can see, he can get online, google for fun holiday activities, do them, and STFU already. It makes me sad for you that he’s behaving like a typical narcissist with all the typical displays of entitlement-fueled pique, nasty criticism, and other related nonsense.

      I think it’s a good idea that your’e exploring your life options. And, to put on my concerned auntie hat– I’ll just add a few things:

      (1) Is there some way you can have a stash of cash? And a place (maybe a law school locker?) where you can stow it plus a “bug out bag”? I don’t trust narcissists not to cross the line from verbal to physical abuse. Remember, it’s all about them and their perceived wounded vanity, so they can sometimes react very violently if the world is not arranged to their liking.

      (2) Is there some place you can stay? A “safe-house” that he doesn’t know about?

      (3) Does he have access to your passwords or computer while you’re not there? The latter is problematic, too, as he could install a keylogger. If you two have commonly shared passwords, I’d get a smartphone he doesn’t know about so you have internet access, and never let him know you have that.

      • I second 1 and 2 whole heatedly. Seriously, if it comes down to it I have a million hotel points that I’ll probably never use. Just be safe and if I remember you’re seeing a therapist – so definitely talk through all of this with them.

      • SF Bay Associate :

        Agreed 100% with Susan, ESPECIALLY the concerned auntie items. I’ll add (4) – PDF bank and credit card statements of all accounts that you know about on a regular basis and email them to yourself at a secret email that you created on a law school computer or a classmate’s laptop that he doesn’t have access to (or print out and scan to PDF) so that you can show that there was $x at this date and $y at that date just in case money suddenly disappears or suddenly you don’t have access to the accounts. Consider also taking your passport and other important identification information from home and putting them in a safe place as well.

        Love and hugs, e_p.

        • e_pontellier :

          Re: concerned auntie items 1 & 4: we haven’t combined finances; we don’t have access to each others’ accounts. Idk what else I should say about that.

          • Lady Enginerd :

            Yes, but he might know the passwords to your accounts and might monitor them. I don’t think concerned auntie advice is that far off here (and what’s the worst that might happen? You have a pre-made emergency kit for the next frankenstorm.) Cash in addition to an account (credit union from your univ?) he couldn’t find even if he had installed keystroke loggers on your computers really is safer than trusting he isn’t or won’t monitor you. And many smaller withdrawals are better than one big one.

    • Hugs. I’ll just echo what everyone else has said. Remember to take care of yourself during this time. And, you’re smart. Your exams are going to be fine.

    • My ex would refuse to ever tell me anything he wanted for Christmas, buy presents for himself and wrap them, and put them under the tree. He always turned his nose up at whatever I bought him, and made me feel stupid for buying it. It was hard to leave because of our son, but one day I just had enough, and told him I wanted a divorce. My life since then hasn’t been perfect, or even great, but it’s better than it was. When my son turned 18 last year, it got even better, because I basically never have to see or talk to my ex. He’s still a jerk.

    • Hugs. Many many hugs.

    • I’m glad you are at least considering not spending the rest of your life with this man. You deserve to have the happiness that he chases out of your life…

    • Oh hugs to you honey dear. You know my e-mail is always open to you!

    • Ugh, I’m sorry :( I had a very hard situation (grandmother decided to stop the treatments she was on, and we all flew home last minute to say goodbye; she passed away the day before my first final) the week after Thanksgiving, during reading week, and right before my very first law school ever. It was, and still is, very hard to not cry multiple times throughout the day because she was a big part of my life. But, what I’ve found helps is trying to focus on one thing at a time. For the past two weeks, it’s been – final 1, study for final 2, take final 2, etc. I can’t look too far ahead or I get distracted, and then sad, and then can’t focus. So, if I start to tear up, I give myself a few minutes, and then think, “just get through this next X time frame of studying, etc.” So just think – get through studying for final 1, then take final 1. Study for final 2, then take final 2. THEN see friend and fall apart. Also, from your past posts I know you’re concerned about money & on student loans, which I have, too. And it can be very easy with loans to either be the type who thinks, I’ll just enjoy myself and spend this loan money and pay it back later! Or be the other extreme (which I am, and sounds like you are) of, budget verrrrrry carefully because every dollar is about double. So I kind of freaked out about the cost of flying home last minute to my very remote small town (my dad was paying, but they’re not super wealthy by any means), and my dad said, “Hannita, this is what money is for. It’s just money.” So keep that in mind if you need to stay at a hotel this weekend to get away from your husband. It’s just money. You’ll pay it back someday, but being able to get yourself into a better space emotionally and mentally is probably something you’ll need in the next days and weeks if you are serious about getting out of your marriage. Best of luck with everything!!!

    • e, I am coming to NYC in late January, and this is me personally offering to take you out for a drink, without any obligation to talk about your marriage unless you want to. I have no brilliant advice, but my heart just breaks for how unhappy you’ve been, and I feel like you really, really deserve some happiness away from this person who seems to be crushing all the joy in you.

      • e_pontellier :

        cbackson, I would love to have a drink with you!! I am so excited to hear you’re coming to NYC. Hopefully by 6 weeks from now, I can be in a bit of a better situation, but yes please let’s get together. I’m available at e.pontellier.r et te [at] gmail [dot] com. I’ll put it in my calendar now.

    • Silvercurls :

      Sending you moral support to stay focused to do well on finals. I’m not getting the worry-for-your-safety-vibe but if that’s something you need to monitor, by all means do so. Others have already given good advice re taking precautions re your personal & financial security. I’ll just add: Take good care of your physical health as well–eat and sleep and destress as well as possible. Step away/stay with a friend if you have to ensure a calm environment for getting enough study & sleep pre finals. Have in your back pocket (metaphorically) the name and contact info of a trusted friend or organization, and consider if there’s anything else that you need to safeguard (computer files, heirlooms, vital documents, prescriptions, treasured personal possessions?). I get the sense that you’ve been trying for a long time to make your marriage work. To echo cbackson, there may come a point when your sanity, soul or just plain everyday happiness demands an end to this situation.

    • e_p, no advice, just hugs. Hang in there.

    • Oh, e. So much hugs and tea and sympathy. Leaving is hardhardhard, but not as hard as a life of unhappiness and despair. I promise.

  19. Does anyone know why the iphone always autocorrects “so” into “do”? How does that make sense???

    • No idea.

      The first thing I did when I got my iPhone was to turn off Siri.

      The second was to turn off autocorrect/predictive text.

      • momentsofabsurdity :

        Siri hates me, I think. I feel like Siri could be useful for driving except that I have asked it to save things and it NEVER does. Siri and I are currently in the following heated exchange:

        “Siri, call my dad.”
        “What is your dad’s name?”
        “John Doe.”
        “Okay. Do you want me to remember that John Doe is your father?”
        “Yes”
        “Okay, I’ll remember that John Doe is your father.”

        Then, three days later,
        “Siri, call my father.”
        “Okay. What is your father’s name?”
        “John Doe.”
        “Do you want me to remember John Doe is your father?”
        “Yes.”
        “Okay, I’ll remember that.”

        Next day,
        “Siri, call my father.”
        “Okay. What is your father’s name?”
        “OMFG I HATE YOU SIRI.”

        Couple that with the fact that it can’t get service 30% of the time and me and Siri are probably breaking up.

        • Susan (edna_mode_nyc) :

          “Couple that with the fact that it can’t get service 30% of the time and me and Siri are probably breaking up.”

          Unresponsive and a poor listener? OMG! DTRFA! ;-)

          R= robot

          • momentsofabsurdity :

            I suppose I should take my own advice from above and accept that Siri may not have the intellectual capacity that I do, and be sensitive to its efforts…

            Nah. Siri and I are still breaking up.

          • Susan (edna_mode_nyc) :

            +1 I love this thread.

          • You guys are cracking me up. Keep up the good work.

          • In Siri’s defense, she has an excellent answer to whether Santa Clause is real. Quite diplomatic!

          • Susan (edna_mode_nyc) :

            @ AIMS – this thread is really fun.

            [insert fire & brimstone pulpit voice] Being wishy-washy about religious topics is a dealbreaker for those with strong religious conviction!

          • I love you all. Can’t stop giggling.

  20. going anon for this :

    I am not a frequent poster; but there are some facts in here that might ‘out’ me.

    Last night, my husband and I had a long talk, after months of shorter talks, and came to the conclusion: I have to stop practicing law. I’ve been a practicing attorney for three years and clerked before that. And I work with the most wonderful group of people in the world, seriously the best co-workers I have ever had. But I am miserable and have to give myself ridiculous incentives to get through every 30 minute period at work every day.

    Before I went to law school I worked in special education and I went to law school because I thought becoming a lawyer was a more effective way to work with and help people with disabilities. For very good reasons, we moved to an area of the country where it is difficult for me to have a full-time position in that area; but in additional to being a ‘general practitioner’ in a small firm, I do practice in the areas of special education and disability law and get all of the ‘regional’ business. And I have a decent reputation in the community as a good attorney. I endured law school because I thought practicing law would be different; and while it is so different, it is surprisingly unrewarding to me. My only reward is lowering the balance on our debts each month.

    This has been coming a long time – I’ve felt very guilty about my unhappiness, because I was raised in a lower-class home and ‘job satisfaction’ was not an issue – a job was what kept the electric on (sometimes in cash, in person, on the day it was scheduled to be cut off). I haven’t talked to anyone except my husband about this. I feel guilty about having a JD and not wanting to practice law at all. And I feel guilt that I would rather be in a helping profession than a business profession, and that I’m hurting other women by ‘dropping out’. But I can’t stand the thought of still doing this in ten years.

    We have ~2 years until I see myself quitting, because I will not morally be able to quit without having paid down the loans that we incurred for me to get a JD. That is about $55K right now, and we are living very frugally (pack our lunches, drive two 13-year old cars, etc…). I am able to stay because I have such great coworkers, but I feel like my soul is dying a little every day.

    On the plus side, this means I have ~ 2 years to make a plan for the future. Does anyone have recommendations, books on making a career transition change, especially to a ‘less prestigious’ position, or recommendations on what the first step is to take? I am terrified of making a wrong move and finding myself back in a similar situation. Having a JD feels like such narrow space, professionally, that I am squeezed in. I’m scared but also relieved that I’ve resolved to make a change.

    • e_pontellier :

      No advice but I want to say HUGE CONGRATULATIONS for taking control of and fixing a miserable situation. It sounds like you feel really low (hello, I’m down here too) but I think it’s so exciting that you’re about to make a timeline to get out of being so unhappy, so congratulations. Hivefive!

      • OP of going anon :

        Oh, e_p, I read your post, and have been following your story, for some time, and I also felt guilty about posting this when I have a loving husband and so many blessings in my life.

        You just seem like such a wonderful and giving person, and I was in your shoes, years ago, and I know that the pull-down I feel is nothing next to the pull-down you feel. Hang in there, lady. Nobody knows what a marriage looks like on the inside, and people judge you no matter what choices you make in life.

      • This! I supported my husband when he had to quit his job because of an unbearable situation. Even though things haven’t worked out the way we thought, and we had a couple really rough years financially, I’ve never regretted that decision.

        You deserve to be happy. I’m glad you have a timeline and hopefully the light at the end of your tunnel will help you survive the next couple of years.

        Good luck!

    • First, congratulations for taking the first steps to get out of a career you hate and for having a supportive husband.

      Second, the woman who graduated first in my law school class had been a teacher before going to law school. She then practiced for about two years and is now a teacher again. I haven’t kept up with her so I don’t know the reasons why she didn’t stay in practice, but I do know you’re not the only one who didn’t like law the way you thought you would.

      Third, I understand about your soul dying a little bit everyday. I used to have that problem too. After law school, I clerked for a federal judge for one year and loved it. I then went to a firm for five years where I loved the people I worked with but did not enjoy the work (and felt guilty that I had a job many people would kill to have, but I didn’t like). It was a personality problem; I was not made to be a commercial litigator and it wouldn’t have mattered which firm I was at, I wouldn’t have liked it (fortunately, I got one with awesome people—as it sounds like you have). Finally I left the firm and am now a career law clerk to a state court judge and again love my job. The process of figuring out what to do took awhile, but it was well worth the work. What I found to be most helpful was spending a lot of time thinking about what I liked about each job I’d ever had and what I didn’t like about each job I’d had, what those things said about my personality and job preferences, and then trying to find a position that more closely matched my likes.

      If you want to discuss this more offline, please feel free to email me: SunnyD6206 [at] aol [dot] com. (yes, aol). Good luck!

    • Anon on this :

      No recommendations. No advice. But,
      YOU ARE MY HERO

    • First, congratulations for having made the decision!

      And your two-year time is brilliant — you’ve got a ton of time to go around to anyone who will give you an informational interview and or just to go lunch with you. Go! Waste not a minute!

      I like that a career clerk chimed in — I know some folks who have just loved that. Did you like your clerkship? This is my go-to job for if I won the lottery.

      Also, a lot of court management types I know have JDs — chief probation officers, AOC people, etc. But there are a ton of options — in-house, JD-preferred jobs that aren’t practicing, and JD-helpful jobs (various things in HR come to mind, but education has so many laws governing it that people have to navigate it for schools and parents challenging things like IEPs, etc.).

      When I was in school, there was a “Guerrilla Guide to Getting the Legal Job of Your Dreams.” I found it to be very helpful and has an optimistic tone.

      GOOD LUCK! And keep us posted!

      • I have this and recommend it.

        • I keep adding:

          The Guerrilla Guide has a lot about non-firm jobs for people with JDs. It’s not so much about getting a lawyer job as it is for getting the job that’s right for you.

          Also: a lot of my friends have gone from practicing to state / fed govt jobs where the JD is very helpful (various licensing boards, children’s services where there are abuse / neglect issues, nursing review boards). Some have been in various government agencies 15+ years now, so maybe an option in your area? I know some school administrators have found JDs helpful b/c they have so many rules: union contracts, building new schools, vendor management, payroll, field trip liability waivers, discipline, etc.

    • Susan (edna_mode_nyc) :

      You have my admiration for so many reasons. *hugs*

    • This was me a year ago. I felt the same way (seriously, everything you mentioned) and it was really hard for me to finally admit that I had to leave the practice of law. I decided that I would try to stick it out for 1-2 years to make a big dent in my loans and to give me time to decide what to do next. I finally narrowed things down a bit and plan to make a transition in 6 months. The best thing I did to keep me sane was see a therapist. It started off as career counseling (which helped me clearly see what I really liked and hated about all of my past jobs) but I kept going because it helped me get through the soul crushing days of law firm life that I had to get through to be able to make a transition financially feasible. You deserve a lot of kuddos for having the courage to make a change!! Congratulations and best of luck!

    • Here are some things that former lawyers I know who were interested in working with children and education have done once quitting law:

      - Entered a teaching fellows program and become a teacher
      - Entered Teach for America and become a teacher
      - Taught civics/social studies at a private school that didn’t require a teacher’s license
      - Worked as the pro bono program coordinator for a nonprofit that uses volunteer lawyers to assist in a variety of cases involving children
      - Gotten a policy position in the government body that regulates education in their state
      - Worked in school administration
      - Entered a fellowship program to become a high school principal

      Hope this helps!

      • Silvercurls :

        Passing on advice I was given when feeling stuck in a job: Feed your soul, even if it’s just a tiny bit every day. How you do this is up to you but I recommend something that helps you connect with your deeper self, not just something to keep you busy. Possible ideas: Read poetry; start a garden (even indoors, even in winter, even on your desk); go to religious services if that works for you (and don’t go if it doesn’t)’ spend time outdoors; meditate; do yoga; play or listen to music.

        Also, take good care of yourself for the next two years since you’ll be living with the stress of a job that you already know you don’t enjoy. Hopefully your search for Whatever Comes Next will start to energize you and sustain you, especially as something begins to take shape.

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