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Updated: Feb 16, 2021 458 Comments · by

Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Agnes Pointelle Dress

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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I attended a Zoom baby shower recently (a total delight!), and as I was poking through my closet shortly before it started, I realized I didn’t have anything that I was excited about wearing for a festive occasion.

The utter lack of festivity over the last year has made clothes shopping a bit of a bore at times, so I’m on the lookout for some fun, but still comfy, dresses to make getting dressed a little more enjoyable.

This pointelle dress from Boden has great details at the sleeves and hem, but it’s made from 100% cotton for breathability and comfort. It will look great on your Zoom calls now and will still be fabulous to wear whenever we’re out celebrating again.

The dress is $160 and available in sizes 2–22.

Workwear sales of note for 12.1.23

Our favorites are in bold!

Kid- and Family-Related Sales

  • BabyJogger – 25% off 3 items with code
  • Crate & Kids – Toy & gift event: up to 50% off everything; save 10% off full price items
  • J.Crew Crewcuts – 50% off everything; extra 30% off sale styles
  • Ergobaby – 40% off Omni Breeze Carrier, 25% off Evolve 3-in-1 bouncer, $100 off Metro+ Strollers
  • Graco – Up to 30% off car seats
  • Strolleria – 25% off Wonderfold wagons, and additional deals on dadada, Cybex, and Peg Perego
  • Walmart – Savings on Maxi-Cosi car seats, adventure wagons, rocker recliners, security cameras and more!

Workwear sales of note for 12.1.23

Our favorites are in bold!

Kid- and Family-Related Sales

  • BabyJogger – 25% off 3 items with code
  • Crate & Kids – Toy & gift event: up to 50% off everything; save 10% off full price items
  • J.Crew Crewcuts – 50% off everything; extra 30% off sale styles
  • Ergobaby – 40% off Omni Breeze Carrier, 25% off Evolve 3-in-1 bouncer, $100 off Metro+ Strollers
  • Graco – Up to 30% off car seats
  • Strolleria – 25% off Wonderfold wagons, and additional deals on dadada, Cybex, and Peg Perego
  • Walmart – Savings on Maxi-Cosi car seats, adventure wagons, rocker recliners, security cameras and more!

Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  2. Anonymous

    I like this dress — sort of Missoni-on-a-budget.

    Speaking of budgets, we are doing a church project where we will buy a weekend of groceries for an extended family of 10-12 once a month for a year. My actual family is just 4 people, so we go to the closest grocery store vs Costco or Target or Walmart. For this recurring grocery order (and possibly our shopping too) would you switch to Costco? We have a 48 quart cooler for cold groceries and could box-bag the rest. Target is closest to my house and has some groceries, Walmart is next closest and has everything, then Costco (but I have heard that it gets mobbed on weekends and the only one I went to was the Pantagon city one decades ago). I’m leaning Walmart but feel that y’all probably know all of this micro-personal-finance stuff.

    • Anonymous

      I would do Costco for sure. Even as a family of 5 who host for my parents frequently in non- covid times (so 7 for dinner at least twice a week), I find Costco is a better value because it’s often either (1) cheaper or (2) better quality for the same price. Their store brand organic ground beef is the only ground beef DH likes.

      Either go on Thursday evening – less likely vs weekend, or order grocery delivery. Costco has pretty quick delivery in most areas.

    • NoVa shopper

      Good morning, DC area person! How kind of you to adopt this family!
      I understand why you would avoid the Costco in Pentagon City. Do you have a BJs Warehouse Club near you? The one on Wilson Blvd in Falls Church has easy parking and doesn’t get mobbed. It’s not as nice as Costco but you will still be able to buy beans, rice, etc. in bulk, and also yogurts, cheeses, meat if your budget stretches to that.

      • Anonymous

        Thanks! Pentagon City Costco is now about 8 hours from my current city, but I remember everyone shopping there for the DC party season. The frozen taqueria were excellent!

        Although for family shopping I don’t think they want us buying a lot of party appetizers. LOL. Also, I remember needing a lime and my only option was to buy a dozen. So I think of that as the Party Costco, like the Social Safeway. Good times!

    • Anonymous

      I would buy groceries at equal quality to what you purchase your own family. For me, my local grocery store and Costco are reasonably similar in quality. Walmart and Target are major steps down.

      • Anonymous

        Really? I think you may misunderstand how 90% of America lives, where Walmart is the grocery of choice. If you hand a family with food insecurity your high end fancy food, it is just going to look like tone deaf charity looking down on them. Go to a Costco, Sams Club or Walmart and call it a day.

        • Anonymous

          It’s not high end fancy food? Just normal grocery store food. Half my local shoppers use food stamps at this store. My Walmart quality is terrible. I wouldn’t feed it to my family or anyone else.

          • Anon in a small town

            my entire hometown shops exclusively at walmart. it’s the only grocery store in town. it’s the only grocery store in lots of towns. I guess everything everyone in our whole town eats is terrible

      • Anon

        I’m well enough off and do 50% of my grocery shopping at Target . I don’t think it’s a quality issue.

        • Anonymous

          Again, my local Target and Walmart are bad. I’m sure that’s not universal! I just would buy a family in need food the same quality as I feed my family.

      • Anonymous

        Our local Walmart has better quality food at better prices than the actual grocery store across the street.

      • Anon

        I would be surprised at the pushback to Anonymous at 9:32, except taking wildly uncharitable readings and then pushing back seems to be a hobby around here. (FYI: It’s toxic.)

        She specified that the food at her own Walmart and Target are much below the grocery store and Costco. The same is true here for us; the prices at Kroger are comparable to Walmart but the quality is so, so much better. We love Costco for the same reason: fantastic quality at prices rivalling Walmart.

        • Atlanta

          I think the pushback is looking down your nose at where most people eat from as not good enough for you and your family. The tone reeked of snobbery.
          You should give people what they want, not what you think they ought to have.

          • Anon

            I did not read snobbery in the tone; I read a suggestion to buy for those less fortunate that which you would buy for yourself. She’s saying to go to Costco, not some artisan bakeshop that sells $35/pound cheese.

      • LaurenB

        I don’t get how Walmart and Target are major steps down – a brand name is a brand name whether it’s at a grocery store, Costco (in bulk), Walmart or Target.

    • NY CPA

      First of all, that’s really nice of you. I like that idea.

      Does the extended family of 10-12 all live together in one house? Costco sells giant bottles/boxes of things that aren’t easily divisible, if they wanted to spread across, say, 3 houses. You could divide produce and meat pretty easily though.

      • Anonymous

        OP here — IDK that they will tell us. My sense is that these may be refugee families and often take a communal car from an apartment complex where people may live in proximity to other families to get settled in the US together, have some fellow-countrymen (if not outright kin) nearby. It’s a Lent project that will go until next year’s Lent and hopefully the acute need will be less by then.

        I’d be a Costco shopper for thrift, but for 6 years a Harris Teeter has been en route to my kids’ school, so I have gone with convenience + store brands for time savings vs $ savings. If it is that great, we may just move our shopping there now that kids aren’t going to school anywhere at the moment (and in food deserts if they ever do return).

    • Anonymous

      IDK if this is true, but a friend’s spouse insists that you can avoid the Costo joining expense and hassle factor (mobbed weekends, long lines) by just doubling or tripling down on sale items at your local grocery store. And that you are less likely to overbuy at a local grocery store vs place you go to only monthly.

      I was briefly a Costo member as a singleton and felt that he was right, but there may be a tipping point when you have very large grocery orders or a large family (or have a deep freeze, which I don’t, but a grandmother did).

      • Anon

        This is what I do. I find when I shop at Costco I waste more too. Grocery store sales and prices on non-brand items can be really competitive with Costco. I think Costco intentionally gives you that “I’m saving money by shopping in a warehouse” feeling, but it ain’t necessarily so. They have some loss leaders like gallons of milk sold in a two pack, but overall I believe it’s been shown more than once that you don’t save a lot of money shopping there.

        That said, I no longer have vision insurance and was thinking about joining Costco just for eyeglasses. Can anyone chime in as to whether the deals are worth it? (They look good, but there are so many add-ons once you start ordering eyeglasses, it’s hard to tell until you’re doing it.)

        • eye

          Yes, it is very good.

          The only place better is ordering online.

          Costco is amazing. Just the savings on gasoline ….. amazing.

      • Anon

        This is specific to the person and the type of shopper. The gas savings alone pays for our membership, and the convenience of always getting a very good price exceeds the hassle of sale shopping for a maybe-better price. This is especially true of staple items, such as formula (Kirkland brand mixed with Similac), diapers (Kirkland brand are the cheapest of the ones that work really well), eggs, vegetables, footie pajamas, kids’ clothing.

      • HangryJo

        My Costco membership pays for itself for Quinoa prices alone, not to mention savings on things like toilet paper, laundry detergent, etc., as long as you have the room to store bulk/back-stock.

    • Anonanonanon2

      If you have a walmart with a good grocery section (like, a big walmart), I would definitely use that route. They also tend to offer things more in semi-bulk than the regular grocery store. For example, larger bags of frozen biscuits,24 count box of eggos instead of 12, a box of eight easy macs instead of a thing of 4, etc. So not costco-level bulk, but easier for a large family.

  3. Anonymous

    I have gained weight in my tummy (perimenopausal, sigh; family history of fibroids may be at work). My waist is 29” and my hips are 39” but now there is a noticeable tummy in between and my clothes (already curvy cut) no longer fit. Are there any brands to try now? Or sizing hacks? I have actually thought of maternity pants with the stretchy waist and tummy panel. Maybe there are buzz words for a cut-for-tummy shape when you are still a pear and not an apple.

    • AnonMom

      I have a 34″ waist and 44″ hips with a tummy in between, and found that sizing bottoms to fit my hips and then getting the waist taken in makes a huge difference in how well things fit. Sort of a curvier version of a curvy cut. I sew, so generally I am comfortable with adding a couple of darts to the waist myself.

    • anon

      Are you looking for casual clothes, or work clothes? I recently found a pair of jeggings at Old Navy that has a lovely wide stretchy waist. I have hips and thighs, and most of ON’s pants run too narrow in those areas, but these seem made for the pears who are carrying more around the middle these days. (Thanks, covid 15!)

    • Anonymous

      Thanks for the wee dose of agism. A conservative cut is in most settings appropriate, not old.

          • anon

            It is both of those things. Which is why, like other frumpy hideous items such as mom jeans, it should only be worn by the very young who think frumpy = chic.

  6. Anon for this

    Trying to buy an inexpensive (under 10k or even under 5k) used car and am surprised how difficult it is, as it’s never been tough in the past 20 years of this process. Dealerships are charging about $3500 in random fees (a huge percentage of the process when buying a car at this price point) and private party sellers refuse to let the car be checked by a mechanic before purchase (never buying without an inspection first). Ugh!

    Also, what is happening with all of the cars and homes and property of people who are dying of covid? A morbid thought but wondering if things will all be sold cheap or donated, which may benefit those who are struggling right now. (I originally thought of this for myself about car shopping, then zoomed out and realized that it could be beneficial to so many in worse shape than I.)

    • Anon

      I would assume a large number of people dying of Covid were already in nursing homes or otherwise too elderly or infirm to drive, or else too poor to own a car : (

      In other words, there’s no reason to assume there’s a major glut of used cars on the market.

    • Anonymous

      I think COVID has increased the demand for cars, not the supply of used cars. People want to avoid public transit. There are also shortages of components for new cars, which decreases the supply of new cars and pushes people to substitute used cars.

    • anon

      Not covid related anecdata from my blue collar or retired, single family home owning neighborhood. I have lost several neighbors due to old age or them moving into a different living situation. I note the family comes in and takes all the practical, useable items. This means tools, cars, furniture, kitchen items, etc. Sometimes an estate sale team is hired to try to offload the unwanted items. From what I’ve seen this could be anything from the collection of Time magazines, to old toys, to china, costume jewelry, or other items that are interesting but not necessarily useful. The house is then either taken over by a family member, flipped, sold to a flipper, or rented after minimal upgrade work has been done. The practical used items in good repair, such as cars, aren’t available to the buying public because the family absorbs those items to meet their used car needs.
      The price point you list for your next car is going to be hard to find a good car and you may have to change your expectations on what type of car you’re going to get for 3-10K.
      Can you bring a mechanically minded friend with you when you test drive potential vehicles? Research the particular foibles of the year and make you are interested in, and ask very direct questions from the owners about the car and if it’s exhibited any of the issues you’ve learned about. You’ll get go, no go feeling from the seller pretty quickly depending on how they answer.

    • Anon

      We recently sold a small SUV, a 2010 that we purchased used in 2014 for $10,000. Just sold for $7,500–probably could have gotten a few thousand more based on comps, but we just took the CarMax price. I am sure that they are selling it for the $10,000 we paid for it 7 years ago. We did regular maintenance and replaced tires once, but no major repairs. I cannot make this make sense.

    • Anon

      The old lady who lived across the street from me died in December (not sure what of- she’d had full time caregivers for as long as I’ve lived here and I’ve only ever seen them, not her). Her family had an estate sale, with dozens of people in the very small house nonstop for two days, right at the time that covid cases in my area were skyrocketing. Almost all of the shoppers looked quite old. So they of rid of her stuff cheap, but probably sickened a few people along the way! I don’t think she had a car, though, and I agree with everyone else that most people dying of covid weren’t driving much while lots of people who didn’t need a car before want one now so that they can avoid public transit.

    • anon

      The used car market is really depleted at the moment. Last summer, my family bought a brand-new car for the first time ever simply because we could not find anything in the certified used category. I think the one vehicle in that category cost nearly as much as the new car, so we went with the new one.

    • Anon

      City and type of car? I’m good at finding these things and can offer some leads.

      In my experience, for that price point, expect to test-drive 5-10 to find one.

    • Minnie Beebe

      The used car market is nuts right now. New car supply is down — COVID restrictions are affecting factory capacity, in both component and assembly factories, not to mention the backlog which resulted in last spring’s shutdowns. Used cars are in high demand, and are selling at a premium as a result.

      Case in point: I recently sold my 8-yr old base model Forester (extremely low mileage, but stick shift and nothing remotely fancy about it.) I bought it new for ~$20k in 2012. Was planning to list on craigslist for $8-9k, but on a whim checked to see what Carvana would give me. Imagine my surprise when they offered me $14k no questions asked! And they came to pick it up the next day! So someone out there probably bought an 8-yr old Subaru for not a whole lot less than I bought it for new, which seems insane to me.

    • Anon

      I think the used car market is just tough right now. I bought a very old, but low mileage and in great shape Corolla three years ago for 3k (it belonged to a little old lady who died and I bought it from her son). My brother is now looking for a car in your price range and the supply just isn’t there now.

    • brit

      Do you have Nextdoor?

      From Nextdoor, I just bought a 2001 Acura SUV for $5500. Under 100k miles, new tires and other doo-dads, one-owner and garaged/babied its entire life. It looks brand new, almost like it has not been driven. The husband was retired military and gave me all the receipts with a general summary of who/what/where AND his cell phone number to text with questions or problems.

      Obviously anecdata but goes to show that shopping local can be worthwhile. You could even post “in search of” what you were looking for.

    • Thanks, it has pockets!

      I’d guess is that when someone dies, either of COVID or something else, their car ends up with their next of kin, and it’s eventually given to a young adult in the family who needs a car. For homes, it might be a similar story, but there’s also a lot of couples and families looking to buy homes outside the city, so that market is exploding right now.

  7. The Original ...

    For those 40 and older, would you please share one (or more) amazing thing(s) in your life that happened after you turned 40?

    It is so easy for under 40s to hear or assume that life stops getting better at 40 or everything is supposed to be figured out by 40, it’d be great to hear your best stories and experiences post-40. (Those wanting to note post-50, post-60, etc. stories, please do that too!)

      • Anonymous

        Completely this! It startled me how true this was for me at 40, maybe 41, and definitely during COVID. I’m just DONE giving a sh*t.

      • anon

        I have heard this from people I know irl as well. And they aren’t assholes, fwiw.

      • anon

        I turned 40 about six months ago, and this is becoming more true every day. I don’t know if it’s age, or the pandemic, but I’m turning a corner.

      • Formerly Lilly

        This. It’s liberating. I’m an Old, raised in the rural South in the 60’s and 70’s, which is a long way of saying I was raised to be a pleaser. 40 is no f*cks to give, and 50 is even better. Life doesn’t “settle” at 40, my youthful friends, that’s when you start to hit your stride.

      • Senior Attorney

        THIS! Especially stopped worrying about what people would think if I were *gasp* TWICE DIVORCED. Ditched that SOB and then everything got so much better.

        Seriously, except for having my son, EVERYTHING amazing in my life happened after 40. Most of it after 50.

      • Baby Weight

        Yes! I also have a button on my every day tote that says “stopped reading the comments.”

    • anon

      Ha ha love this as a clap back to the allegation yesterday that life is “settled” at 40!

      • Anon

        You all know what I meant and are just starting a Mean Girls war because you’re bored. Being frustrated with your life at 25 is nothing like being frustrated at 45.

        • Anon

          It tends to be the people who are frustrated at 45 were already frustrated at 25. I’m sorry if YOU are unhappy at 45, but you are not typical.

          • Anon

            I am quite happy with my life; however, I am aware that I cannot pull off again what I pulled off in my 20s and 30s to get here. There are only so many times you can move across the country for grad school, a job, and your husband before you’re just tired of setting your life on fire and making friends in a new place. You just need to sleep more than 5 hours a night and, in fact, feel like roadkill if you don’t get at least six hours of sleep. You eventually want to spend time with family and friends instead of working 80 hours a week because life is short.

            If you all have the energy at 45 that I did at 25, and the ability to make new friends at 45 that people have in their 20s, power to you. My hat is off to you. Sorry for being a mere mortal.

          • Anon

            Ah, I kinda see what’s going on here. You took a certain path, which worked for you, and naturally assume anyone unhappy who took a radically different path is doomed. The rest of us are here to remind people there are a LOT of different paths. There just are. If it’s bio kids with one’s own eggs (something the struggling poster yesterday did not specify), I grant that it’s unlikely after a certain age. Other things are more changeable.

        • anon

          Yeah, I have to say that while I didn’t agree with everything you said, I agreed with what I think was the overall point – that the types of frustrations you experience in your 20s are often different than those you experience later, and the advice is likely different too. For example, when I was 25 my friends were all in the long-term relationships and I was panicked about whether I would ever get married. What I needed was a reality check – that 25 is still very young, that being single at 25 is actually super common (even though my friend-group was coupled up), that notwithstanding the conservative norms of my community, I was actually very much in step with societal norms in other parts of the US. When I was single and upset at 38, what I needed was advice about how to envision a happy life without a spouse and kids, because at 38, there was a much stronger possibility that I’d never marry and never have kids. If someone had told me at 25 to get comfortable with the possibility I’d never get married, that wouldn’t have been advice I could really hear. At 38, it was.

          Similarly, when I had a career crisis at 30, I needed different advice than when I had one at 41. Yes, you can make huge career changes at 41, but your life situation is likely to be different – you’re more likely to have strong ties to the place where you live (in my case, a husband and child…knowing that was coming would have spared 38-year-old me some angst!), ageism is more likely to be an issue, the economic trade-off of going back to school is likely different (because you’re earning more money), and your time to save before retirement is shorter.

          My life changed massively between 38 and 41, so I’m definitely not one who says that life is over at 40. But different life stages often call for different advice. Basically, at 20, you don’t have a lot of cause to confront the fact that some things you wanted may never happen; when you’re in your 40s, realistically, you do have to come to terms with the possibility that not every dream you had as a teenager will be realized.

        • Formerly Lilly

          Truly not trying to be mean. I wish that when I was younger and concerned about having failed to hit the life landmarks that my friends were hitting, that someone had reassured me that it gets better, you feel better, and things are fine.

          • Senior Attorney

            I often think that the hard years would have been a lot easier if I’d known these amazing years were in my (admittedly) far future. But then I think 30-something-year-old me would probably have said something “pfft — who cares if I find great love in my mid-50s — I’ll be too old for it to matter!” HAHAHAHAHA!!!

        • anon

          You were mean yesterday and even tried to shut down those who called you out. I recall the word “enough” was used. Ironically, you were claiming OP couldn’t handle the hard truth, yet you are here again trying to stop folks from calling you on your mean behavior.

      • Ellen

        I am getting there quickly, and I will report to the HIVE after I hit 40 — the last year has been terrible for me trying to meet men — I can’t with a mask on anyway, and would not want to bring home anyone during COVID b/c most are just looking for s-x anyway.

        I do have good news–I got my Grandma Leyeh an appointment for a COVID shot at the Aqueduct Raceway in April. She lives in the Bronx, so we will have to take an UBER out there together. Dad also has appointments for him, Mom and Grandma Trudy out at Stoney Brook in April, so they are now happy. They just need to hanker down until then and Dad said they will all be getting the Pfyzer vaccine. I have to wait b/c I am not 65 and have no underlying conditions. Unfortunately, being unmarried with a larger tuchus does not qualify. FOOEY!

    • Anon

      I went back to work at age 40 after 9 years as a SAHM. I worked my way up to earning close to $200k/year within a few years.

        • Anon

          I’m in the actuarial field and I had worked in the field before having kids, full disclosure. Still feel pretty accomplished for having come back

          • Anon

            Hive five, fellow actuary! From an actuarial Fellow.

            And good for you for coming back.

      • Anon

        Same. Was a SAHM for 10 years and then came back and worked my way up to over $200k/yr by the grace of those around me and my refreshed enthusiasm for the work. My kids are proud of me and it feels so good to contribute financially to the family.

    • Anonymous

      You do realize that with this ageist attitude you are assuming that 2/3 of your life is going to be a barren hell. How silly!

      • anon

        The Original is responding to a commenter yesterday who claimed life was settled in your 40’s and that the “headwinds” against making any changes after that are very strong and inured against anyone successfully making any positive changes after that time. There was also a weird fixation on your life only being complete if you have bio kids, which completely perplexes me.

      • Anonymous

        No she isn’t. She’s responding to a poster yesterday who suggested life is hopeless after 40. Pretty sure The Original and most of us disagree!

      • Anon

        I suggest that you re-read what was written with a far more charitable eye. Charitable eyes come with age.

        • Anon

          Why do you feel bio kids is necessary for happiness? Plenty of people are unable to have them. If they want them, there is a grieving process, but it doesn’t usually last forever.

          Also, when people imagine their bio kids, they picture a happy healthy family. Please look at people who have children with special needs or other illnesses (more common than you think) and take off your rose colored glasses. Idealizing any dream is dangerous.

        • ANon

          Not one bit proven for many of us who are childfree by choice, but nice try… actually, not even nice nor really trying. just ugh. I’m sorry your day is so awful that this brings you joy and genuinely hope it gets better soon!

          • anon

            Anon at 11:09, my point proven meant that some folks around here have a fixation on bio kids being essential to one’s happiness. I couldn’t disagree more. Bio kids can be one source of happiness but having bio kids does not a fulfilling life make.

        • Anonymous

          Sad that you can’t accept that having children brings some people joy … just be happy for them. Who cares?

          • Anon

            Agree. It may not be a major milestone for you, which is fine (I fully believe people who don’t want children should not have them!) but there’s no denying it is one of the most major life changes anyone can undergo.

          • MWK

            If someone posted about running a marathon after 40, I would not feel the need to come in here with remarks about how I cannot imagine anything more like hell or talk about the dangers and difficulties of marathon running. I would think “good for them” (if not for me). Just because having a child brings some people joy is not a reason to go on off about people being fixated on “bio kids”. (And it makes you look super defensive.)

            In my case, my 40s were great. I will probably look back at them as my best years because my kids were old enough to travel and do things but still at home and my parents were young and healthy enough for us to make great memories as a family. My 50s have their benefits too – but my kids have left or are leaving home (as they should) and my parents are getting older.

            But as my Mom likes to say every age and stage has its good and its bad. The key is to appreciate each one for what it offers and not waste time holding on to what has passed.

            And yes – giving absolutely zero f**cks is a huge upside.

    • Anonymous

      I realized that there is no magic age where you feel all grown-up and have it all together.

    • Bonnie Kate

      I’m in my thirties, so don’t have a personal story to share. But a couple years ago I was at a birthday party for an older friend who had turned 80. I asked my friend which decade of their life had been the best so far. She thought about it a moment, and said that each decade just kept getting better. It wasn’t for lack of hardship or a boring life up until her older years – it is just this friend’s commitment to really making the most of her life and getting better and better at it as she ages. I totally draw inspiration from this when I think of life as a whole.

    • 55

      I’m 55. It wasn’t an event, but some shifts in attitude.
      I stopped caring whether random strangers found me attractive, and I dressed to suit my activity or my comfort.

      I figured out that other women my age are super fun to chat with and hang out with. I have some friendships that started after I turned 40 that really sustain me now. When I volunteer or do other things where I mix with strangers, I go find the women my age and they are the best company.

    • Greensleeves

      Running out of f*cks, as mentioned above, is amazing!
      Left my law firm for an in house job and no longer think about my entire life in terms of billable hours and whether I’m using every minute as productively as possible.
      Traveled to some amazing places and can’t wait to do more once it’s safe again!

    • Anon

      I got a breast reduction. It sounds silly but it has vastly improved my quality of life.

    • Anonymous

      I went to nursing school, began a new career, lived abroad in London and Paris, and got to see my kids successfully launched. Now I travel often.

    • Anon

      Yesterday’s commenter (not the OP) was fixated on the difficulty of having bio kids or getting married after 40, so any stories of success will likely be discounted if the person telling them is married or has kids. The weird thing is, getting married and having kids aren’t magical keys to happiness, which should be obvious just looking around at the world.

        • Anon

          Did she say “bio” kids? You started talking about cutoff for using one’s own eggs in IVF. She did not mention a fixation on using her own eggs.

      • Anonymous

        Reading here tells me that spouse and kids are the source of great misery, anger, and regret for many or most, at least at some point along the way.

    • anon

      My therapist is in her 60s, and she said it’s her favorite decade so far. I was freaking out about turning 37 on our last phone call and she was telling me that she feels like being with herself at this point is like wearing the best old comfortable clothes. She described the joy of understanding what wisdom feels like. And how her partnership with her husband is profound at this point. It made me really excited to see what the future holds.

    • Anon

      Speaking as a childfree woman, after 40-45 is when my mother friends started to “come back”. I have a close circle of fellow CFers, but the moms mostly disappeared into their own social groups for 10-15 years. Once the kids became relatively independent and settled, the adult friendships re-grew.

    • A Nonny Mouse

      I started and finished my PhD then moved to a new state by myself for an academic job. I lived by myself for the first time ever until I moved back to be with my husband and daughter due to COVID. Oh, and I liked myself for the first time.

    • Calico

      I wrote a novel. We’ll see if anything comes of it. Regardless, the experience was rewarding.

      • Anon

        Great job!! This is one of my big goals. I’ve been working on short stories during the pandemic but would love to be able to write a novel (I don’t feel ready yet). I’m 38 and have a big goal to complete a draft by 40.

    • Anon

      Let’s see,
      -met my husband and got married
      – got promoted to the c-suite
      – bought a second home
      – got a dog
      – got financial security
      – made peace with family
      – oh and as others said, ran outta Fs
      And I’m just getting started …..

        • Anon

          Thanks! Kind of made my day to write it out – my 20s and 30s had good moments but were filled with a lot of anxiety and stress. Kissed a lot of frogs and thought things were dire.

    • JustmeintheSouth

      My life has been so exciting after 40, after 50 and now in 60’s. After some hiccups, my career took off (finance) several promotions, managing a great team. Traveled to Europe/UK for first time in 40’s and then lots of other trips.
      Have made some wonderful new friends since 40. And I have lots to do before I am 90!! I think every decade has its challenges. If you take care of your basic “happiness factors” (positivity, exercise, sleep, be kind, gratitude, learning) each decade can be special.

    • Anonymous

      In my.mid-forties I bought my first house, made a big new group of friends, got in the best shape I’ve been in since high school, and met my BF of several years after not dating at all for a lot of years. The pandemic has made me really thrilled with all of these changes but also the other life choices I made along the way (living in a bustling city neighborhood instead of the ‘burbs, having no one to home school, etc). In my “road not taken” life– the one I mourned for a decade – I would be in an unhappy marriage to someone who might have voted for Trump or divorced, have two kids finishing high school or starting college and another in middle school, live in a suburban Florida town from.which I could never leave, and socialize with a big group of wealthy but basic b!+ches who just happened to marry my husband’s high school friends.

      • Anon

        You paint such a clear picture of that life you didn’t live. I can totally imagine that life, those people, and it sounds awful. Happy for you that you’ve gone after and found the life you want! Just turned 40 and inspired by you.

    • Anonymous

      I just read a cool story about a woman who skied every single day in her 90s. When she was around 95, she went out on a powder day, which also happened to be her birthday, and tried to get “first chair.” She got there in time for second chair, but everyone knew her and gave her first chair as a birthday present so she could be the first run ripping down the mountain on her 95th birthday. That’s how I want to be in my 90s if I’m lucky enough.

    • Anonymous

      Career really took on in my 50’s ; now in a C-suite role. In my 40’s, honestly, I was so overwhelmed/tired/whatever from raising kids, keeping house together – I used to feel like I was on a treadmill that just kept going faster all the time. So much happier now; LOVE my kids to death, and happy that they are living on their own not needing the same day to day attention that they did then. Much more time to spend with my husband, remembering why we liked each other; the stress of worrying about paying for college is over. Know my own truth now, with the fire of a hot sun, and just not willing to go back and question myself constantly over every decision I make. With age, if you are lucky, comes wisdom, and that has brought much happiness. I might have felt stuck at 45, to be honest, but spend a lot of time now (early 60’s) thinking about my next chapter.

    • ArenKay

      Adding to the choir on this. “Game changer” gets overused on this site a bit, I think (really? a desk organizer is a game changer?) but this truly was.

      • ArenKay

        Nesting fail, was meant for first reply. No longer giving An Eff has been transformative for me.

    • brit

      I am 40 now. Just before I turned 40, I bought a home that I feel proud to own and enjoy living in. My prior homes were not joyful purchases. They were very “this is all I can afford since DINKs are outbidding me on anything I’d actually want to live in.”

      Sometimes I cannot believe that the universe allows me to own a property this nice.

    • Pep

      I got divorced at 42, moved back to the state where my family lives, got a job in a completely different field from the one I left, bought a house on my own, met an amazing guy, went back to school, and got a big promotion. I’m 56 now.

    • anon

      I’m 32 so can’t really share a meaningful personal story. That said, in my limited observation, I think the nature of our choices changes with age. A much broader range of possible futures was available to me at 18 than is available to me now (for example, I’m probably not going to become a doctor now without a TON more effort given than I’m in consulting), but there are upsides to that too (e.g., I’m high earning and get to travel a lot and lots of other things that were not at all foregone conclusions when I was that age.
      So my range of futures is getting narrower but it’s still exciting because I’ve built experience in certain areas and can go a lot deeper in some areas (I’m thinking of this from a career lens, but I think the same applies regardless. Like, you have to close some doors as you get older so you can open other ones. That doesn’t mean that those new doors you can open are any less cool or any less exciting, they’re just going to be different.

      I honestly think the biggest limitations in life are the ones we put on ourselves. If you’re unhappy with your life and want to radically change it, you totally can!! Incidentally, both of my parents’ lives changed radically in their early 40s (e.g., my dad went from being kind of an itinerant (single) soul to being a really dedicated suburban single father).

  8. Anon

    Any Chicagoans here? I just looked out my window and the amount of snow is insane. I can’t remember the last time we’ve had this much!

    • Anon

      I’m a couple hours from Chicago but we have an insane amount of snow here too. We have about 14″ on the ground although some of it was already there before yesterday’s storm.

    • Anonymous

      I’m Deerfield. I can’t even describe how hard it was to get our garbage cans to the curb. It’s insane! Took me 20 min just to shovel a little zone for my dog.

    • Monte

      Another Chicagoan here and I actually laughed out loud when I looked out of my mirror this morning. I love it and cannot wait to get out for a mid-afternoon walk!

    • AFT

      I am! My patio (and patio furniture, ugh!) have basically disappeared under the couple feet of snow that hasn’t melted at all .
      Tom Skilling posted that it’s not the snowiest winter, and it’s not the coldest winter, but the last ~2 weeks are in the top 5 for both measures (coldest and recorded snow fall) in recorded Chicago history. That made me feel like less of a wimp for thinking “OMG THIS IS THE WORST.”

    • Minnie Beebe

      I’m in Oak Park. We have at LEAST 2 ft now on the ground, probably more like 2.5, including snow that has compacted over time. It feels like it’s snowed every single day for like a month. My driveway is beginning to resemble a tunnel, and I’m so glad I no longer live in the city so that I don’t have to deal with the crazy unplowed alley situation at our old house.

      It feels like it’s never going to stop.

      • Carrie

        Hey Oak Parker!

        I am totally snowed in and can’t get out of my alley. But it is beautiful!!!! Classic Chicago winter day. Sunny and clear and freezing and snowy.

  9. Anon

    For those who grew up near the poverty line or below it, is there a point in which you stopped thinking like a broke person? (By that I mean watching every penny, not allowing yourself to spend much, feeling like any financial stability you have could be gone at any moment, etc… or however you define it.)

    I used to think it was a certain job level but then got laid off a year into that job, which made me not trust that benchmark. Then I thought it was bank account amount but every dollar amount set just moves the needle.

    Do we ever stop feeling this way or is this just too enmeshed in our understanding of the world due to our formative years?

    • Anon

      Nope. It doesn’t go away. If I’m going to be able to retire, it’ll be because luck breaks my way and I stay focused. I don’t have family to bail me out, so I gotta keep my eye on the bottom line.

    • Anonymous

      I don’t think so. My grandmother and mom were like this so I didn’t know we were mainly blue collar, I thought we were destitute. I default to quantity vs quality because you always need more pasta sauce, milk, socks, towels, detergent. Quality is a way to not meet your actual predictable needs. My husband buys Advil vs store brand and I totally don’t get that.

    • Anonymous

      Doesn’t go away for me. I have a good career and married someone who happens to be pretty wealthy and I still worry. Literally have dreams. I just don’t want to see the bottom fall out. And family obligations weigh heavy as well.

    • Dear+Summer

      I grew up working/middle class. Some folks here might think the difference is negligible but there is a substantial difference in the lifestyle between working-class folks and folks near the poverty line. Anyway, while I was never actually near poverty my parent grew up very poor and instilled a lot of that mentality in me. Some things that stuck – an avoidance of investing because I’m unwilling to “risk” losing money, quantity versus quality mentality, and a feeling that I MUST get the CHEAPEST working option for anything. The last point means I will spend hours/days researching and trying to save even a few bucks on any purchase over 20 dollars. I currently make 6 figures so this super frugality isn’t always necessary.

    • Anon

      It doesn’t always manifest the way you say, being afraid to spend. Some of us spend too much because after a life of deprivation we suddenly can buy things beyond what we absolutely need, we can buy things we want. That combined with about zero lessons on how to budget and spend wisely (poor parents do not always spend wisely themselves) leads to a chaotic time when we start earning a little money. I had no concept of saving. It took a long time.

      • Panda Bear

        +1 This was my experience, especially in my early 20’s when I was first starting to feel in control of my money and life. Growing up on food stamps made me want to spend $$$$ on fancy groceries, that I really couldn’t afford and when I should have been investing in savings. It wasn’t even so much wanting those particular items, but wanting to feel like I had finally become the kind of person who could afford them. It took a while to figure out a reasonable balance.

      • Anonymous

        Same. In addition to being excited to be able to buy things, I feel a strong pull to enjoy relative prosperity now while it lasts. I don’t truly believe that the $$$ we are plowing into retirement will actually be there when we retire–we are basically just throwing that money away because we are going to lose it all in a stock market crash or it will all get spent on catastrophic medical bills, and then we will have sacrificed for nothing.

    • Anon

      I don’t think it will ever go away. I’m in tech, so I also have the compounded issue of being laid off out of the blue multiple times. I trust absolutely nothing to stay calm and stable, and I can’t help but feel disdain for optimists.

      My least favorite part of this mindset is coming from a family that doesn’t trust banks. It’s really un-fun to deal with a dementia-riddled parent who can’t remember where he hid money. We can throw away literally nothing without doing a forensic examination for stray cash, and at this point I suspect we’re going to have to start bashing holes in the walls to check there.

      • Anonymous

        Wow — my inlaws are like this. We think my MIL has gold bars hidden somewhere in her house because her husband did not believe in banks (or safety deposit boxes, for that matter). The house is a tear down and she is a hoarder, so it will be wildly inefficient to do anything but light a match when she goes and see if any molten gold is found n the ashes.

    • Anon

      In my case, there’s some combination of getting past my childhood and lifetime impact. I am close to a food hoarder, with a full pantry and freezer. My family is not going to face hunger. I keep my thermostat low in the winter and high in the summer. I am incapable of ordering dinner in a restaurant without factoring in the prices for different selections. On the other hand, I live in a lovely home, drive a nice car, have nice clothes, contribute to charities and political causes important to me, and I am able to appreciate and relax into the enjoyment of those things. Being able to pull the plug and retire? That remains to be seen. I “know” that I should have enough, but it doesn’t “feel” that way.

    • Anonymous

      I was finally able to breathe once I had passed the probationary period at my Canadian government job and signed up for my pension. I’m basically unfireable and guaranteed financial stability at this point.

    • anon

      The thing that helped me the most was paying off my house. I feel “safe”-ish now. I still feel incredibly uncomfortable with luxury goods and buy most things on sale or at target or tj maxx even though our HHI is high and we live in a low cost area. There are certain things we could afford to do at this point that I would still never do because they make me so uncomfortable. I bought a lexus a few years ago and I kind of hate it. I think I’ll get a honda next time around.

    • Anon

      I grew up working class where there was frequently more month than money. I remember having “blanket parties” when we couldn’t pay the electric bill in the winter.

      And for me, yes, I finally feel financially secure after 5 years of earning $150k in the same job (where I get great reviews and have no fear of losing my job) and having no debt. So I’m 40 and it took 20 years to get here. It’s still wild to me to look at my checking account and see $4k or whatever in it – for so many years it only had a few hundred after paying the bills.

    • anon

      My husband and I both have this background, and despite being very financially stable for over a decade, we definitely still have this mindset. Being senior (I am VP level and was at my previous job as well) hasn’t helped, having a lot of money in the bank plus retirement savings hasn’t helped, I think this is just who we are. We joke about the ‘marshmallow test’ and how for us the issue is what to do with a hard, stale marshmallow you’ve been hoarding for years.

      That said, we really don’t have the family safety net that a lot of people in our positions would have, and we have had to build our own safety net. The upside to this mindset is that we’ve been able to do so, and now in our mid-40s are very close to hitting our retirement goals. We’ll keep working, because that’s still just who we are, but we’ve been able to be less anxious about money knowing that we don’t technically NEED to work.

      • anon for this

        LOL I totally feel your marshmallow test!
        We are similar, both came from families where finances were so precarious, always, and then put ourselves through college and graduate school. We are nearing 50 now and have an incredible amount saved (to me, at least). We still budget everything in detail and live very frugally compared to our peers, but it works for us. We recently had an aha moment when we realized if school went fully remote this year, DH could quit and oversee all the schooling, and we could live and still save on my salary. Despite all our budgeting somehow I didn’t realize we have been banking his salary for the last 3 years. It also made early retirement seem…. not crazy? Which is kind of insane to think about given our backgrounds.

      • Anon

        Yes to building your own safety net. It makes a huge difference when you’re contemplating things like “but what if I buy this house then lose my job?” and there’s no one to bail you out, ever. A lot of us have become the bail out person for the rest of our families.

    • Anon

      I want to push back against the idyllic notion of the Noble Poor. That wasn’t my experience at all. My parents were not paragons of virtue and my childhood was not one of yankee ingenuity and clever ways to be thrifty. It was full on dysfunction for a great deal of my childhood. Many people are poor because of being born into poor circumstances and then continuing to make the same mistakes the prior generations did.

      “OMG I still shop at TJ Maxx because I grew up poor” is such a distasteful humblebrag to me.

      • Anon

        Plenty of people are poor because they are dysfunctional. This is just logical: if you’re dysfunctional enough, you’re not going to be able to get ahead, and unless you have an incredible safety net, you’re going to suffer poverty.

        But plenty of people are poor because work that must be done only pays poverty wages. Plenty of people are poor because they are caretakers who have to work around unpaid caretaking responsibilities. Plenty of people are poor because they are disabled in a way that prevents them from working.

        • Anon

          I agree. I’m just pushing back on the assumption that there’s only one way to be poor.

          • Anon

            I understand now. I guess I wonder if one background is overrepresented here!

            My family was middle class but dysfunctional enough that they lost all the money and ended up deeply in debt back in 2007. And really it was just the breadwinner who had a middle class background and income; my other parent barely graduated high school and only ever worked service jobs. I definitely fall in the “debt averse millennial” category now and save way too much money without investing it and while sacrificing quality of life. Something I need to work on.

      • anon

        As the poster who said I still shop at TJ Maxx, why do you think that’s a “distasteful humblebrag” and what does it have to do with poor people making bad choices vs. being noble poor? I’m confused. There was plenty enough abuse/addiction/mental health issues/dysfunction, etc. in my home growing up, if that makes you feel better. I specifically made choices in my life to do things differently, which I’m very proud of.

        I’m not shopping at TJ Maxx to prove anything to anyone. I just have a hard time spending more money than I “have” to because I’m afraid I’ll be without because I know how scary it is. Yes, it’s objectively irrational at this point.

        • Seventh Sister

          I shop at TJ Maxx because the one near me (Santa Monica) has some amazing deals on $$$$$ clothing. I’m not economizing by buying stuff there, at all.

    • brit

      While I feel financially stable, I don’t think I’ll ever stop letting it influence my decisions. I chose engineering in college because it’s a 4 year degree (grad school not required, so less debt) that has good starting salaries and as a female, I could have a better shot at scholarships. I also don’t have an ounce of entrepreneurial spirit and I wonder how much of that is because I highly value having health care benefits through my employer (something my parents didn’t always have through work). I think I’ll be able to continue to feel stable, but always make the safer decisions

    • anon

      I don’t think so. I don’t feel the fear anymore because I made a conscious decision that I wouldn’t worry about money, and I also made a conscious decision to prioritize my own happiness in the moment (at least a little bit) so I’m not totally miserable in services of avoiding expenses that I can totally afford. That said, no I still feel like a broke person and I think I always will. I just exert a lot of control on the thoughts I allow my mind to dwell on and the choices I end up making as a result.

      I’ve decided that this isn’t a bad thing, as long as I don’t live in fear.

  10. Anonymous

    Ladies, why is my face so puffy in the morning? I never really noticed this before the pandemic, but staring at myself in morning Zoom meetings has made it apparent that I almost look swollen first thing in the morning. It seems to go away by mid-day, but I hate getting on a Zoom meeting at 8:30 and looking like I’ve been crying or that I haven’t fully woken up yet. What could be causing this / what can I do about it?

    • Anon

      Your body naturally retains fluids overnight and since you’re lying down it can show in your face more than it does during the day. Dehydrating things like alcohol, caffeine and sodium can make it worse. Putting a cold compress on your face can help but also it’s normal and not that big a deal.

    • Anon

      I’ve noticed this on my face, too. It seems a lot worse if I’ve eaten salty or processed foods the day before, so maybe cut back on those if you haven’t already? Drink lots of fluids like water and tea. I’ve noticed a significant decrease in puffiness when I’m more hydrated.

      But also, don’t worry about it too much. I promise no one notices it but you! I’m sure you look great.

    • Lilau

      I treat this with a sheet mask, some caffeine eyepatches, and a glass of ice water and while I lounge in my bed for five or ten minutes. Kind of indulgent, but a nice way to start the day.

      • Anon

        +1 to sheet masks. Making eye compresses out of tea bags soaked in cold water then squeezed out helps too. Please just use plain Lipton or generic black tea for this. No need to get fancy.

    • Anon

      Water retention can be a lot of things. I’ve had it from dehydration, from birth control pills, and after I developed a gluten intolerance, from being glutened.

    • BeenThatGuy

      I’ve mentioned before my love of a Jade Roller. I keep it in the fridge and use it after my morning serum routine. It feels great/refreshing and helps me de-puff.

  11. SEC Jobs

    I’ve done in-house securities and disclosure work for a decade after a few years in Biglaw. My dream job has always been to work for the SEC, specifically Corp Fin, but I live on the west coast and can’t relocate for family reasons. It appears that the SEC has several “telework” positions now. Does anyone know if full time telework for the SEC is really a thing if you live outside the DC area? Any suggestions to help ensure my application doesn’t fall into the black hole of USAJobs? Thanks!

    • Anon

      I work for the SEC, although not in Corp Fin. Although the SEC does allow some telework, I’ve not ever heard of hiring a new to the agency full time telework employee outside of the duty location, which for CF is Washington DC. If you want to stay where you are, your best bet is to try for a job in one of the regional offices, which would typically be in Enforcement or Examinations.

    • Anon

      I also work for the SEC and I am not in DC. The regional office that I am in is mostly a mix of Enforcement and Examinations. There are a scattering of other groups represented, but I feel like most of those are people who were already in the organization and then got a new job within the SEC. But even with internal position, I have seen some that say that they require relocation. And none that let you start as full-time telework. But I do think it is a great place to work. Good luck!

    • Seventh Sister

      I’m not sure if this is the area you want, but the LA office has periodic openings. It’s not my cup of tea, but I notice it because I have a search set for govt. jobs in the region.

  12. Vaccines

    Let’s talk vaccinations. I see epidemiologists are now spreading the message that “the best vaccine is the one you can get.” And they’re emphasizing that both the mRNA and J&J vaccines prevent hospitalization and death. Certainly, from a public health perspective, they want as many people to take as many vaccines as quickly as possible. But I WFH, no kids, grocery delivery, socialize only over zoom these days, and virtually never leave my house. In short, I’m someone who is extraordinarily unlikely to catch or spread covid. So I why wouldn’t I wait an extra month if it means getting a vaccine that is more likely to protect me from, say, long-haul covid symptoms?

    • Anon

      I’m in the exact same situation as you ( no kids/ delivered groceries/WFH/go nowhere). I agree — wait another month! You’re very likely not spreading COVID anyway so why not let others who have to be more externally-facing get their vaccines first.

      I don’t know how old you are, but if you are under 65 you can’t get a vaccine anyway in my state.

    • Hildy J.

      Which one do you think is more efficacious in that sense? Not only have I heard that there’s very little difference between the options out there now, I also understand the situation to be the very opposite of one-and-done. We are likely going to get a COVID vaccine every year in the same way we get a flu shot…

      • Anon

        The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines are fairly similar in effect. The Johnson and Johnson doesn’t appear to prevent disease but prevents bad cases needing hospitalization. I’d rather have one of the originals if I could choose.

        • Nesprin

          Please note that these have never been directly compared to each other, only to placebos at different times and in different populations. We don’t have the data to say one is better than the other, all we can say is that they all seem to be very efficacious.

    • Anon

      I want everyone who is able to get the vaccine to get it as soon as they can, even if it’s not their “preferred” vaccine. That is how we are getting out of this the quickest. And if that happens, hopefully we get to herd immunity quicker and therefore the subtle difference in % effectiveness (if the differences are even apples to apples true, the vaccines were tested at very different life points in the viruses cycle) will be a moot point.

      I hear you that you aren’t a likely spreader. And I don’t mean this comment *at* you specifically, I believe you, but unfortunately I think there are a lot of people that don’t think they do much but if they really were forced to think about it do…so if enough of those people push it off, then we’re in a pickle.

      We still don’t even know if these all require annual boosters, it is not unlikely, so if that’s the case maybe you can get your preferred one then!

      • AFT

        Ditto this. And I’ve had some personal reminders recently that the folks who are being conservative can still get the virus. Get whatever shot you can in your arm when you are entitled to do so, and if it makes sense to re-up with the better shot when supply is adequate, you can always do that. My understandng is that there is no medical reason that you couldn’t (for example) get J&J in March and once Pfizer/Moderna become available in September, get one of those too.

        • OP

          But wouldn’t that be more wasteful? By getting two vaccines instead of one, aren’t we just depriving other countries of vaccines that are sorely needed there?

          • Anon

            This is like eating the food on your plate because there are starving children in India. There are hardly any people who are going to demand a “better” vaccine, no it won’t move the needle

          • OP

            I’m not in public health, actually. That was a different commenter. Thanks for insulting my intelligence, but it’s a valid question to ask about vaccine waste. There are literally a million articles right now about vaccine hoarding by wealthy countries. If you have an explanation why giving some Americans two different vaccines when some people are going without isn’t vaccine hoarding, I’d love to hear it. But if you don’t, please spare me the condescension. If you’re so smart that this is an obvious question to you, perhaps use your brilliant mind to illuminate the rest of us.

            This board is becoming an impossible place to have a discussion. Some people seem to thrive on insulting others and it’s exhausting.

          • Anonymous

            Sorry for all the crap you dealt with on this post, OP. Your points were valid and should’ve led to a productive discussion, but I agree that some people just aren’t capable of that here these days. They refuse to thoughtfully engage AND refuse to collapse the thread, which is a toxic combination on any subject.

          • AFT

            It wouldn’t be wasteful once we’re no longer short of supply (which is expected to happen in the coming months – April if you’re as optimistic as Dr. Fauci, possibly Fall if you’re less optimistic.
            The analogy below about the food on your plate versus the food for kids in a developing country is spot-on for me – you giving up a vaccine that works (if not as well as you’d like) doesn’t mean that the vax will automatically go to someone who needs it more. It means that you will just have 0% immunity compared to the 70% immunity you’d get from J&J, and even if you’re very cautious the odds are higher that you could get sick and use hospital resources, or pass the infection to someone else, compared to being vaccinated with the J&J vax.

    • NY CPA

      Genuinely curious–do you have any sources you can site on J&J being more effective at protecting from long-haul symptoms? That isn’t something I had heard of associated with J&J.

      I’m ready to kill my 80-something-year-old former-nurse grandma who is insisting on waiting for the J&J vaccine because “it’ll be available next month” (~12M doses for the whole nation) and because “it’s only one shot”. I really don’t understand why people would want to wait for a less effective vaccine whose main benefit per my understanding is that it is easier to store, so will make it easier to distribute the vaccine to rural areas.

      • Ellen

        I understand. She probably does not like to get stuck with needles. It was all I could do to get my own Grandma Leyeh (also over 80) an appointment b/c she says she does not like vacinations. She has skinny arms and without alot of fat, they have to inject right into her muscels.

        Grandma Leyeh says Dad used to get injections right into his tuchus and thinks that would be better, but with s-xual abuse being so rampent nowadays, no one wants to pull their pants down in front of some guy with a needle any more, so you just get the shots in your arms. But she is going to do it b/c she wants to go out and see Mom & Dad on Long Island afterward.

      • Z

        Don’t think she meant that J&J is more effective at preventing long-haul. J&J will prevent hospitalization and death but not always mild to moderate symptoms, from which you sometimes get long-haul symptoms.
        Pfizer and Moderna prevent mild to moderate symptoms and therefore (likely) prevent long-haul symptoms.

        • Anon

          +1 which is why some of us would be disappointed to get the J& J rather than Moderna or Pfizer just due to our place in line.

        • anon

          Bingo. My biggest concern is long COVID, so I want the vaccine that is most effective at preventing disease, not just hospitalization.

          But I’m not sure that the efficacy stats for the three vaccines can be directly compared, as the trials were carried out in different places with different variants of the virus in circulation.

          Why is the comment form suddenly requiring a name and e-mail address?

    • Anonymous

      Omg just get the vaccine you can get. The idea that you can wait another month and get one of your preference is a silly fantasy.

      • Anon

        +1 like, are you able to track the mrna ones manufacturing lifecycle and subsequent distribution pattern to determine when it would be available to you when you are theoretically passing on the other one? The month you think you need to wait might turn into 6.

      • Anon

        +1000 The whole premise is just silly and entitled. Get the vaccine when you qualify.

    • Anon for this

      I am high risk, have barely done anything since March last year, and I get annoyed when people who Pfizer in the first wave tell me that I should settle for Johnson and Johnson when it’s my turn. I am in public health and I understand completely why getting any vaccine is important, but it doesn’t change my feelings. I am in a group that needs maximum protection from severe illness and I am also not a “spreader.”

        • Anon for this

          I really don’t care what you think. The opinion of someone who is delighting in running around the thread insulting everyone means nothing to me.

      • Anon

        The J&J vaccine is very effective. These vaccines are a blessing! A miracle! I don’t get this mentality at all – but maybe it’s for best. Somebody who is grateful for the vaccine will get it sooner.

        • Anonymous

          Yeah I find it incredibly disturbing to see posts like this. Declining an opportunity to be vaccinated out of baseless anxiety driven fears is a tragedy.

          • Anon

            Not everyone who has a different opinion than you has anxiety. The J&J vaccine is different than the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. If you spent more time educating yourself and less accusing anyone who is not you of being crazy, you’d know that. By the way, I’m not OP.

          • Anon

            Anon @ 10:15 – talk to *any* infectious disease physician and they will tell you the vaccines available are incredibly effective and should be taken when available. If by educating yourself, you mean reading stuff on the internet and not listening to public health experts, then no thanks. That’s anxiety and hubris.

          • Anonymous

            Of course they are different. And they are all effective and no one should be declining any of them.

          • Anon for this

            I never said I was going to decline it. I said I was annoyed when people who got Pfizer tell me that I should be satisfied with J&J. I’m allowed to feel that and if you guys disagree, I just don’t care. If you care so much about more people getting vaccinated, you should know that your strategy of belittling others and using armchair mental health diagnoses as weapons is extremely ineffective.

          • Anonymous

            If you want to go through life being annoyed at people have fun. Sharing a message that there is anything subpar about the J&J vaccine is dangerous anti-vaxxer nonsense and I will do my part to keep this page hostile to it.

          • Anon

            I very much enjoy you playing the victim, but if you spread vaccine disinformation on this board, you deserve push back. The public health experts (who actually know what they’re talking about) are very positive about the J&J vaccine and are encouraging people to get it if they qualify.

          • Anon

            The J&J prevents hospitalization, not getting COVID. It is less effective than Pfizer and Moderna at preventing disease altogether. Given what we are still learning about long-haul symptoms, I think any rational person would prefer the Pfizer or Moderna, and it’s not “crazy” to have that preference.

          • Anonymous

            Huh? Really unclear on how some of you reading “hey Pfizer and J&J are different and the latter is less efficacious” as “anti-vaxxer nonsense.” Maybe you think you’re being helpful, but you look anti-science yourself.

          • OP

            I’m the OP. Of *course* epidemiologists are saying they are the same, because from a public health perspective, it’s better for everyone to get vaccinated as soon as possible. But from an individual risk perspective, it’s unquestionably better to get the mRNA vaccine — and if you deny that, you’re doing exactly what the CDC did last March about masks: lying about science for the sake of the public good. And I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that, but it’s objectively true that mRNA vaccines are significantly better at protecting you from *getting* COVID (and also spreading COVID) — which comes with plenty of risks, even if you don’t die from it.

            I’m not suggesting refusing the vaccine altogether — that’s a complete red herring and not what I said at all. But the Biden administration just signed deals to get 600 million doses of the mRNA vaccines to Americans by July. So you can call me “silly” all you want, but still I don’t see how it’s not rational for me to wait for a better vaccine if I can get it, given my locked-down life. Given the widespread availability of mRNA vaccines for all Americans by summer, the difference in timing will be a matter of weeks, not six months.

          • Anon

            OP – if your mind is made up, and you didn’t want to hear other opinions, why even post? Here, I’ll fix it for you — You’re right! You’re so smart! Everything you said is correct!

          • Anonymous

            Have fun! Stop spreading your anti vaccine nonsense though please. Stay home unvaccinated and hush up about it.

          • Anon

            OP I agree with you. It doesn’t make you anti vaccine to have a preference. You want the vaccine! I am just going to assume the people calling you crazy are fully ignorant and don’t care to educate themselves about the differences.

          • Anonymous

            Are you saying the J&J vaccine is less effective because of the study results numbers? Because most of what I am.hearing is that those numbers probably look.worse because of the time frame and locations of the trials (I.e. J&J was tested when.and where there were new variants spreading). Just something to consider. Obvi I am not an expert any more than you.

    • Anonymous

      OP, I understand you completely and I think a lot of people are being deliberately obtuse. I think there is still an argument to be made for getting J&J earlier because even though you’re low-risk right now, that could change (what if you need to attend a bunch of medical appointments unexpectedly?) However, I completely get wanting to wait for the more efficacious vaccine and I’m sort of doing the same due to my own health conditions.

    • Anon

      I think it’s admirable to wait since there aren’t enough to go around, and there are people who need protection more since they can’t WFH. (I also am thankful to everyone who is getting vaccinated, since every shot counts. I think it’s okay for people to make different choices here.) If you benefit from the sacrifice of waiting by getting your vaccine of choice, then great. It’s unscientific to claim that the vaccines are equivalent, but some people here still think that lying to people’s faces is good public health policy. I know a lot of people who want the J&J vaccine because they don’t trust mRNA technology, and they are refusing to get the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines as they hold out for J&J. So it’s not as though there’s this huge problem of J&J vaccines sitting around unused because everyone wants the mRNA vaccines.

      • Anonymous

        “It’s unscientific to claim that the vaccines are equivalent, but some people here still think that lying to people’s faces is good public health policy.”

        I agree with this completely. IMO, it was a HUGE tactical error to claim that masks were ineffective in the early days of the pandemic while also (in the same breath) highlighting the urgent need for masks for medical providers. I understand why the decision was made, but I think it was the wrong decision and that it eroded trust at the exact worst time. We need to not repeat that mistake with the vaccines and we also need to not insult people who ask questions about the differences.

        • Vicky Austin

          I have to agree with you. I don’t know that it could have been prevented, because there was so much we didn’t know in those days and the panic-buying was out of control, but in hindsight that one thing has messed up a LOT of our response as a society.

      • Anon

        Literally nobody said they were equivalent. We said the J&J vaccine is effective. Not sure how that is lying but whatever.

        • Anon

          When someone is talking about how one vaccine is more effective than another, it’s obtuse to just keeping repeating that they are both effective. In any other context, this would be obvious.

          • Anon

            From a scientific point of view, you can’t compare one vaccine to another. The trials were not set up that one. You can’t extrapolate the efficacy of each trial and compare them. The trials were set up differently, looked at some different endpoints, and run under different conditions. You do not understand research if you think you can directly compare them as is being done by some in this thread.

          • Anon

            But is it likely that if we did such a trial, the conclusion would be that the vaccines are exactly equivalent in efficacy on every metric? If not, aren’t we allowed to talk about the differences between the two vaccines as we understand them based on the data that does exist?

            I’m frustrated when researchers take this “it’s impossible to so much as place bets on something without a trial” attitude. The trials were also not set up to demonstrate that any of these vaccines is safe or effective for patients with autoimmune conditions. And so I have to fight antivaxxers left and right who adopt this rhetoric of “we have to wait for a trial.”

          • Anon

            You can absolutely talk about it, but if you understand clinical research you would understand that the talk is only speculation. The conclusions are all likely to be the same – they are all very effective at preventing serious COVID and COVID-related death. Biostatastitions could (and likely will) analyze the data and draw some conclusions and determine if there is and significant (statistically) in the vaccines.

          • Anon

            The question wasn’t about death and hospitalization. The question was about long COVID and whether both types of vaccine could be expected, theoretically, to be equally effective at preventing the kinds of mild cases of COVID that are still associated with long COVID.

    • Nesprin

      Wow- I feel I need to reiterate that all the vaccines work extremely well, and there has not been a head to head test, which means that WE DO NOT HAVE DATA SHOWING ONE IS BETTER THAN ANOTHER!

      The J&J vaccine was tested later in the year when the more infectious British variant was circulating and when there were more cases in the US, whereas the mRNA vaccines were tested earlier on. So we cannot directly compare results from different clinical trials- that’s not how statistics works.

      It’s entirely possible that one is better than the others, but the difference is likely to be small and once again, we do not have data for one being superior to the others.

      In summary, please get whatever vaccine you can- the sooner that every eligible person gets their vaccines, the fewer cases we’ll have out in the world, reducing the chance of transmission and strain on our hospital systems, and the better for quashing this pandemic!

      • anon

        Except that the latest results from Israel shows that the Pfizer vaccine is virtually as effective at preventing symptomatic infection against the UK variant as was demonstrated in its phase three trial. So, I’m not sure that the argument that “Pfizer wasn’t tested against new variants” is very compelling. See:

        https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pfizer-vaccine-94-effective-at-preventing-symptomatic-infections-of-covid-19-israeli-study-shows/

        I wish public health experts would just be honest. The J&J vaccine is very good, and I’m grateful we have it. But the Pfizer vaccine is superb. “Get the J&J vaccine first because it’s the right thing to do” is a more compelling message than these attempts at obscuring the very real differences between the two vaccines. People can see through them. Perhaps the solution is to tell people “you can get J&J first and Pfizer later” but I’m worried about waste.

        • Anon

          Yes, I totally agree! I’m going to get whatever vaccine is available to me whenever the general population can get it, but it’s frustrating to feel like I’m never being given accurate info, or even the best guess. It’s really patronizing to give incomplete information and just expect people to be find with that.

          • Anon

            Best guess =/= evidenced-based medicine. These vaccines were developed in record speed and are tremendously effective (the goal was >50% efficacy). The researchers in evolved have been working fast as possible, so maybe give them a break for not having all the answers. To collect all the info needed to answer these questions would involve massive, long, clinical trials. Do we really want to delay deploying these vaccines in order to answer every possible question?

  13. Anon

    I have saved a lot. Not enough to retire right now, but definitely enough to scale back and not deal with this grind of FT work. Do you ever reach a point where you look at your bank accounts and think, F it, life is short and I have too much saved to deal with this?!

    I like work, I really do. But maybe I liked it more on my own terms…? I do not like the constant push to add more, do more, achieve more with an artificial sense of urgency that’s just driven by the need to increase profits. I don’t do well with constant stress, 8 hours straight of Zooms, nonstop deadlines. The older I get, the less patience I have for this. Yes, I know that’s why they pay me a lot of money. But if I could make half as much and be half as stressed, I think I’d be happier…

    Does this mean I should go work for myself? Sorry, I’m all over the place today. Just feeling grumpy about meaningless deadlines and the general sense that everyone should be freaking out all the time about work.

    • anon

      No one can answer these questions but you. That said, I hope to reduce to PT (keep the health insurance) at my job as soon as I can. If you’re hitting the numbers you need or want for retirement and feel life is too short to keep after the grind, go live your best life and don’t be beholden to a job you don’t ‘need’ as much as you did when you first started your career. look into F.I.R.E. or Slow F.I.R.E.

    • Anonymous

      Grass always looks greener. Working for yourself may actually be a lot harder from what I’ve seen with friends. And less money doesn’t always mean less stress. You don’t say what age you are. When thinking about retirement, don’t underestimate what you may need for healthcare. I’d maybe research jobs that are more 9 to 5 that have medical benefits and see if there is something you enjoy before fully opting out of things. If that still doesn’t get you what you want, there’s very little that’s been risked. You may find you appreciate where you are more or else still make the opt-out you would have anyway but with more certainty. Or, you know, you might just end up happier.

    • anonshmanon

      Another option would be to use your skills for a different employer, one with a different mission than to increase profits. Civil service, public health, research institutions, non profits all need lawyers or business managers as well as for profit companies.

      • Anon

        Idk. I’m doing it. I have the comfort, like OP, of knowing I’ve already saved enough. Ive been self employed for a year and still loving it.

    • Anonymous

      I hit this at 35. I was laid off and pregnant. I ended up dabbling in consulting and picking up a part time (20 hours) job doing what I’d been doing before, at about twice the hourly rate. I was out of f*cks to give and worked my tail off in my 20s and early 30s and saved like a squirrel. I’m 40 now and still part time. Could I earn more? Sure. But I don’t need to and from a retirement standpoint Compound interest is really doing me a solid. I maxed out everything starting at 22.

    • CHL

      I recently read The 100 Year Life and I found it fascinating in terms of different ways of thinking about working and life phases. In the “traditional” way, you learn, then earn and burn yourself out and then retire. But that doesn’t match the way people want to live in some cases and if you live until you’re 100 (or 90 or whatever), there is time for lots of different types of work set ups and life set ups. Maybe check it out?

      • Bonnie Kate

        Not the OP but this sounds fascinating – going to go check it out right now.

    • Ellen

      I think that you should pull back now if you can afford to. I realise that I have been busting my tuchus for 10 years now and have NOT found a man who wants to marry me and have kids. Mabye if I was out there 10 years ago, I would have found a guy and moved out of the rat race like Rosa did. Now I am older, not as svelte and have no man. So what if I have a bank account. That will not keep me warm at night. I have made a resolution to find a man, get married, have kids and move to Chapaqua this year, and if I don’t, I will consider doing what you are thinking of doing! I say go for it and I will be right behind you! YAY!!!!

    • Lara

      Yes!! I went part time last year and it was such an amazing decision! I’m lucky and in a role where part time truly means part time (not a full time job squeezed into part time hours). I’m fairly young (33) and don’t have kids (yet! Number 1 is due this summer) but I just didn’t see why I wasn’t living the more balanced life I wanted NOW. I’m not sure working for yourself will give you the less stress you want, but I think it’s definitely worth exploring ways to get you what you want!

  14. Considering Invisalign

    Anyone who has done invisalign willing to share costs, pain, inconvenience? Other things to consider? Probably crazy at my point in life (60+), but this board has taught me I can still take care of myself, even if it feels a bit silly.

    • anon

      Make sure Invisalign is what you need. My ortho told me Invisalign moves the tips of your teeth and braces move the entire tooth, roots even. Braces are the longer term solution or the best depending on what your teeth alignment needs are.
      Taking care of your teeth is an important part of personal health. It’s worth the effort and money.

      • Anon

        Braces also move just the tips of your teeth. They’re not capable of moving the roots. I can squirt water out of a little triangular gap between the tops of my two upper front teeth because the roots remain where they were and the tips come together. I had traditional braces twice.

          • Anon

            So do I. And I have a daughter in braces right now and spoke with the orthodontist about this exact issue. if you have a natural gap between your teeth, the braces are not going to move the roots of your teeth closer all the way to the top of the roots. Don’t spread misinformation.

    • Anon

      I can’t speak to specifics as I’ve never used Invisalign, but my mom recently did it in her late 50’s and she has no regrets. She had always wanted to straighten her smile, and now her bite is much better too. I don’t think it’s crazy at all!

    • Anonymous

      Worst decision of my life. My teeth were pretty straight to start (had braces for about a year as a kid and just hadn’t kept up with retainers). Was in Invisalign for 3 years and braces for a year after when I finally threw a meltdown about how long it was taking. I came out with my jaw not looking as good on profile—I feel like I don’t have as strong of a chin. Worst is the cracking. I ended up having to see a TMJ specialist. It still cracks. I never had TMJ before . I literally would rank this as the top worst choice of my life. Age does make a difference—the orthodontist attributes the length of my case to that and my dentist said TMJ issues were also more likely with age. I did it late 30s. Also, I researched heavily. My orthodontist is someone who teaches and speaks nationally—so wasn’t just some rando (I can’t believe when I see those commercials about mail order!). I’ve had two coworkers do it around similar age. One was happy. The other also had about three years in treatment (though she doesn’t have TMJ, she expressed to me that she doesn’t think it looks much different and had them finally just stop her treatment). It’s not so much the money—it’s the huge time suck, discomfort and (for me) long-term disappointment and pain. I miss my old smile.

    • Anon

      I wanted Invisalign, but was not eligible. See a well-reviewed orthodontist to determine if you qualify. Based on what I learned, most people are better off with true braces. I had braces from 34-38 and wish I’d had the money to do it much younger.

      Note that adult teeth move MUCH slower than the usual braces demographic because you’ve finished growing and everything is solidified. My ortho estimated 2 years as the “usual” but warned me that the true time would be flexible based on how my teeth behaved. I ended up needing them for almost 4 years, my teeth just refused to move.

      Take your aftercare seriously. So many people don’t wear their trays long enough once the braces are off, and lose placement.

    • Editor

      I did it a year ago in my late 60s. There is/was no pain whatsoever. Insurance or spending account paid for most of it (that’s not very helpful, I know.) I would say out of pocket was well under $1000.

      My motivation was knowing one lady in her 90s who has “mesial drift” — the condition with lower teeth when they go “crooked picket fence”, if you will. That is something I did not want. I never had braces; my teeth were naturally straight and I wanted to keep them that way.

      I got the impression that the orthodontist was defending his practice against the mail-in or walk-in shops that are cheaper and simpler than professional practices like his. I think Smile Direct? Therefore they seemed to go overboard about “patient care,” requiring many and regular visits, many more than I, who had to arrange my work day around them, thought necessary. Naturally 95% of the patients were pre-teens. Maybe they needed the check-ups and encouragement, but I did not. If there were to be a next time, I would be more assertive about this. I would go for the new sets of braces, sure. (I think you get 12 all told, in increasing strength. Still, they never hurt!) ) But every month or so? No. Most of the time is spent waiting for the orthodontist to come in and make the same small talk. As an adult, I don’t need to talk about spring break and if there were a problem, I’d call and come in on my own.

      It’s been over a year. My regular dentist tells me that the biggest problem with the braces is non-compliance–that people stop wearing the retainers after a while. I’ve lost one or both for a day or so (they’re transparent : ), they’ve gone through the wash, they can be a bit icky and for sure, taking them out is the first thing I do upon awakening.

      So to me the only downside was the recurring visits in the middle of the afternoon.

    • CPA Lady

      My husband did it a couple years ago. His teeth were very crooked. It was supposed to take 18 months, but it ended up taking about 20 months because his bite still needed a bit of an adjustment at the end. The cosmetic part happened a lot faster than the bite part did. He had basically no pain.

      It is inconvenient if you follow the rules, because you have to brush and floss after every time you eat. This actually would be a lot easier to do now, but it was a hassle pre-covid (nothing like having to carry around a toothbrush and toothpaste and brushing your teeth in a disney world bathroom). I think it cost about $3,000 out of pocket and we paid for it out of our HSA. He has no regrets. I had traditional braces as a pre-teen and his experience was much better than mine.

    • Annony

      I did Invisalign about 3 years ago (late 40s). I had a retainer in my teens but I never finished the treatment (we moved away and stuff happened) so my teeth had always bothered me. My lower teeth were a bit crooked and my top tooth (#10, if you are looking at a chart … the one between the front tooth and the incisor) was set back quite a bit – very noticeable in photos. At the end of it all, I’m glad I did it, but I really regretted it during the process and I still have some lingering regrets

      The aligners themselves were not that big of a deal. Not painful for me, but I think I have a pretty high pain tolerance for teeth things (or very non-sensitive nerves) and I also had one of those vibrating things that helped both the discomfort and supposedly sped up the process. It was a little bit of a hassle to eat, but people really did not notice the aligners unless I mentioned it. It ended up being just over a year and I wear a retainer at night now.

      The things I did not like … I did not realize the impact it would have on my my bite – how it would feel when my mouth is closed and my teeth meet. It still doesn’t feel completely “normal.” My ortho also shaved down the tops of some of my teeth … some was necessary, some he felt were a cosmetic improvement. As a result of arguing with him about all of this, I ended up HATING him and resenting every visit I had to make. I tried to switch orthos partway through but couldn’t find one (recommended to me) willing to take me on as a patient since I was already so far through. My dentist (who is also a friend and someone I’ve known since we were in the same mommy group 10 years ago) recommended him and I hated him so much that it affected my relationship with her, as well.

      So my recommendation would be, be ready for the amount of time you’ll spend going to appointments and choose someone carefully. Talk to them about how your teeth will look, but also about the impact to your bite and jaw alignment. At my “last” appointment, the ortho’s assistant tried to explain that I’d need to come in for yearly checkups for the rest of my life and I was like, “Nope. I am never coming back here again.” My (new) dentist can make new retainers for me, or I can find a new ortho if I need to.

    • anon

      I did traditional braces in my 20s, not Invisalign, but I’d like to chime in that my teeth only look better, they do not feel better. I have to wear (removable) retainers probably for the rest of my life now because the teeth shift when I slack off on wearing them (gaps develop when I floss, gum issues in back molars). I have a harder time biting (can’t bite a thread loose anymore) because the sharp edges of my teeth no longer aligned. I drool in my sleep now, wasn’t a problem pre-braces. I love my smile now, but if I had known the trade offs I wouldn’t spend so much time and money getting braces.

      • Anon

        I don’t know which teeth shift, but I had this same problem. I finally got permanent retainers installed on the back of my teeth to prevent shifting. I like it a lot better than having to worry about wearing retainers every night.

        • Anon

          My permanent retainer behind my lower teeth unfortunately did not prevent them from moving. They want ot be where they want to be, I guess. Kind of like my cats.

  15. Anon

    What do you all think of the nursing home news on Cuomo? What would you like to see happen as a result? I’m really disappointed – I don’t live in NY (anymore) but I relied on his briefings early in the pandemic and looked to him as a source of leadership and calm when the federal government was doing nothing.

    • Anonymous

      I am just disgusted. NY acted like it had its ish together and it looks like that is just a willingness to seem that way vs letting loose the data showing it wasn’t the case.

      No nursing homes for me, probably ever if they are in NY. FLA gets a bad rap, but NY deserves a worse one. The worse thing is that he will be replaced by someone just like him, so voting the bums out won’t really happen. I get why people are moving out — expensive, high taxes going to get higher, and you can’t trust the government. I still hate DeBlasio more.

    • Anonymous

      It’s not news. This has been known since the early days. I think Cuomo overall did a great job, and this particular decision was a horrifically bad one. Those things can coexist in my mind.

    • Lilau

      Apologies! I just posted about this below- didn’t see your comment at the time. Great minds think alike, I guess. I have some thoughts below, but generally i was also a daily briefing watcher and I think I had a different take than the average viewer.

    • Anonymous

      I’m still not sure what he was supposed to do instead. There wasn’t room in the hospitals, and nursing home patients have to go somewhere. I say this is somebody with a family member in a nursing home long-term. None of the numbers should’ve been hidden, but he had no good options. And remember he was first in the nation to have to deal with the deluge. Later cities have the benefit of hindsight

      • Anonymous

        Yes. Hospitals do not have room to keep all patients with DNR orders and provide in hospital hospice. The options were discharge to home (the nursing home) or mobilize overnight to be able to discharge to hotels staffed as nursing homes would be or to mass military like hospital tents to die en masse. None of these options were good. I think he should have mobilized the national guard but that wouldn’t have been popular either.

          • Bon

            The hospital ship couldn’t be used because of federal restrictions on its use. It was needed to provide care but sadly rendered useless. That’s the federal governments’ fault for being so determined to do nothing. I think people forget what Cuomo was up against. This wasn’t a real option.

          • Anonymous

            The hospital ship was not initially ALLOWED to take any COVID patients. It was unused because the rules about who it could treat were so narrow no one qualified, and I think there also wasn’t a surfeit of ambulances available to transfer patients. A lot of the emergency field hospitals (e.g. the one at the US Open site and the one at the Javits Center) ended up being very underutilized due to bureaucratic and practical bottlenecks.

            OP – I guess I’m not that surprised. Cuomo is a vindictive political animal who is very very conscious of his image. I think he did a number of things right and also made mistakes. It was really important to my emotional state to trust him at the peak of the pandemic when everything was terrifying–I live in NYC–but since then his constant bickering with DeBlasio and a number of head scratching but mostly lower stakes decisions have reminded me he’s always been flawed. Remember, Rudy Giuliani was arguably a good mayor right after 9/11 – the skills needed to navigate a crisis aren’t necessarily the best skills to govern day to day.

          • Anonymous

            Here’s an excerpt from the Times article I linked to: “A tangle of military protocols and bureaucratic hurdles has prevented the Comfort from accepting many patients at all.

            On top of its strict rules preventing people infected with the virus from coming on board, the Navy is also refusing to treat a host of other conditions. Guidelines disseminated to hospitals included a list of 49 medical conditions that would exclude a patient from admittance to the ship.

            Ambulances cannot take patients directly to the Comfort; they must first deliver patients to a city hospital for a lengthy evaluation — including a test for the virus — and then pick them up again for transport to the ship.”

          • Anon

            Thank you to one of the Anonymous at 11:45 am. That is helpful.

            To the other: you’re everything that’s wrong with this site. If you assert a fact, you should be able to back it up, not be able to throw things out there (true or not – someone the other week tossed out the old canard about domestic violence and the Super Bowl) and have the other person prove a negative.

      • Anon

        There was room though. They were following this policy when there was room.

        Hindsight is irrelevant; I have a lot of family who work in nursing homes, and they were condemning this at the time and knew EXACTLY what would happen.

        • Anonymous

          Well, sure, we all knew what was likely to happen, but what should he have done differently that would have resulted in a different outcome? Even things like moving all COVID patients to one wing of a nursing home is not practical – nursing homes are generally full and frail elderly or confused patients can’t just be up and moved to other rooms easily. There were no good answers.

    • Anon

      I would like to see him gone from public life forever. A decent human being who makes this kind of mistake doesn’t try to cover it up and move on. But even if he has no human decency, the rest of the world should blacklist him.

    • Anon

      I bought his book and haven’t read it yet. I’m now wondering if it a) deserves a read, and b) deserves a spot on my bookshelf.

  16. Lilau

    Anyone care to discuss the cuomo covid nursing home scandal? I’m reading about it in NY times and elsewhere, but there’s a piece I don’t get. I followed the daily briefings pretty closely, and every day, he’s say, “there were x deaths, y number in nursing homes.” Since the nursing home deaths were rather low comparitivly, I had always assumed that if a nursing home resident died in a hospital, it wouldn’t be called a nursing home death in the briefing. My husband says I’m wrong, no one else was thinking that, and he was misleading the public daily.

    *I get that there’s a totally different component to this scandal where the gov’s office didn’t give stats to the legislature or the feds. And the question remains whether it was the right call to let a recovering covid patient back into a nursing home as a matter of policy. But I’m curious if anyone else following the briefings felt misled by the point I mentioned above.

    • Anon

      I mean, I knew about this over the summer. It was blatantly obvious that he was manipulating data.

      • covidkat

        Same, those of us paying attention were not surprised. I’m only surprised it ever came to the general public’s attention.

    • AIMS

      I didn’t but I assume that the numbers everywhere are somewhat misleading to begin with in that, for ex., in some countries if you have X disease and died from it but also had COVID they may count it as a non-COVID death whereas in the US it may be counted as a COVID death (or not). I guess my point is the numbers to me are always capable of manipulation but to some they appear more objective.

      I think this is more of a scandal because he pretended to be this great manager of the pandemic. The reality is he was slow to take it seriously, screwed up the nursing homes by sending people back from hospitals to them and did some good in the interim. It’s not a black and white thing but the media can only hail people as heroes or villains.

    • Anon

      I also figured that was probably the correct way to interpret the stats at the time, but that is (a) probably because I’m a lawyer, so use to parsing language, and (b) personally believe that governments very often report data in the way that makes them look better. That can be done in multiple ways, but parsing language and only reporting some relevant stats seem to be the two most often used. Also I’ve done some statically work in my past, and know how easy it is to pick your stats in since a way as to be literally accurate but very misleading. However, I assumed that most people heard the data is the number of people living in nursing homes who died, and totally understand why that is how they interpreted it.

    • Jess

      I knew last spring that he was discharging Covid positive elderly patients from hospitals to ordinary nursing homes because there was a news article about it as a scandal. But I didn’t follow his briefings that closely, but yes, I assume he was misleading you considering his policy choices.

      The policy choice to discharge covid positive patients may have been necessary from the hospitals perspective, but was morally repugnant. New York converted the Javits center to a Covid field hospital for a reason. The least they could’ve done is converted some nursing home into entirely Covid positive nursing homes until the patients’ 14 day quarantine was over.

      • covidkat

        this. it was totally preventable as the javits center and the ship were mostly empty.

        • Bon

          There’s plenty of info available on why the ship wasn’t used — blame the federal government for that one. Also the Javit’s Center didn’t exactly have rooms with bathroom facilities accessible for a senior who has to pee in the middle of the night or anything to inspire one to choose to go there vs going home, etc.

    • Bon

      Fwiw, my impression was the same as yours. And also that Cuomo was requiring that people be allowed to return to their legal residences after hospital discharge. I can’t see how it would have been acceptable not to allow people to return to their homes … (although it would have been great to be able to offer them an alternative). Also nursing home boards were pushing to have patients return. Obviously for monetary reasons but they didn’t exactly ask for this particular type of help at the time.

      • Lilau

        Right, I agree with this. Also, from what I’ve read,nursing homes were also ill-equipped to deal with covid patients for systematic reasons that existed prior to the pandemic.

        I recall cuomo stating *very* early on that his greatest failure would be hospitals getting overrun and turning away people who could have otherwise been saved. I agreed at the time, and I think I still do. It’s easy to forget that we didn’t know what the peak for hospitalization was until we got there.

        I tend to be more critical of the failure to disclose numbers than making the wrong call wrt nursing homes.

  17. Anonymous

    Re-posting since I got to the weekend thread very late. In response to the poster whose friend was a social worker who was eligible for the vaccine but felt like they didn’t deserve it yet … I am working on this issue in my state and we are counting on people who fit each category to show up and get vaccinated. When people take a pass, for whatever reason, it throws the numbers off. We are literally planning on you to get vaccinated so please just take an appointment when it becomes available to you. I am literally begging.

    • Anonymous

      Thank you. Similar position and yes. We want everyone eligible to get it as soon as they can. And we are working as hard as we can to get people in faster.

    • OP

      Was the OP. Friend got the vaccine over the weekend, as did numerous others who were struggling with the morality of access to it. They are all vocally encouraging peers to do the same.

      Thanks!

    • Anon

      That is how things work in your state. In my state and in many others, huge numbers of people are signed up and the wait lists are massive.

  18. Anon

    How is everyone else in Texas doing? Much (30-50% depending on where you live) has been without power for > 24 hours. Temps in Dallas are in the single digits and Houston is < 15 F. This has been handled so horribly.

    • Anonymous

      As a NE girl I don’t understand any of this, but I know what it’s like to not have power in the cold and I really hope it is fixed for you soon!

      • Anon

        And we don’t understand it either. And really are not getting any answers. This was not an unexpected event, but apparently, the electricity providers were not prepared and a lot of the plants went offline due to the cold. This kind of cold doesn’t happen often and our infrastructure is not built for it. Lots and lots of people with no power and frozen/burst pipes. And roads are largely still snowed/iced over.

    • Anon in the Midwest

      North of Texas here. Rolling blackouts during -25 degree air temps are unacceptable and we should be seriously analyzing this after the fact. I’m more than happy to pay extra every other day of the year to ensure we have reliable heat and electricity when we need it the most.

      • wish

        OK babe, your wish is Uncle Joe’s command. Prepare to pay more for fossil fuels ;)

        • Anon

          Texas’ wind farms aren’t weatherized any more than the gas-fired plants. This issue is a portfolio-wide failure for ERCOT, exacerbated by the structure of the power market there and, honestly, persistent climate change denial among leadership (and I use that term as broadly as possible to cover both public and private sector leaders).

          This event was *foreseeable.* The same thing nearly happened in 2011 and 2014.

  19. anon

    I have developed some bad habits since the beginning of the year. Probably the biggest one is that I’m blowing off my morning workout to sleep in … like every day. This is after three years of being committed to morning workouts, so this is a long-time ritual that I suddenly cannot force myself to do. My second biggest one is that I’m on my phone way too much, scrolling through social media. I have no place to be or go (WFH, pandemic), and it has not great for my mental health or overall ability to just keep myself together. I’m sure mild depression is part of the problem, but this winter has been long and brutal from a weather standpoint (-21 this morning, with 10+ inches of snow on the ground) and some of my normal coping mechanisms have gone out the window. I feel like I’m just existing and not really living.

    Any ideas for snapping out of this? I’m eating well enough — probably a few too many sweets, but still lots of fruits and veggies. I’m sleeping OK most nights, with occasional bouts of insomnia. My house is clean enough. I’m getting dressed for the day and doing hair and makeup. But I’m super unmotivated to do work or exercise or anything that requires mental and physical effort.

    • Anonymous

      This may be counterintuitive, but can you lean into this a little? It sounds like you’re being hard on yourself because you feel like you should be doing things differently, but that’s the depression talking. If sleeping in isn’t harming you, maybe it’s OK to be like this for now. Think of it as hibernating. A season for everything. You can always get exercise at a different time or in a different way.

      • anon

        You are probably right that leaning into this may be the best way to go. I love the concept of hibernating and trusting that my energy and creativity will come back at some point. It’s so hard to internalize, though!

        • Anonymous

          I’m with you. But I find I’m much less stressed out since I have started to embrace this hibernation point of you for my depression which can be mild at times and really debilitating at others. No need to add shame to the mix if we can help it.

      • Senior Attorney

        That’s what I’ve been doing, for good or ill. (Although not depressed, thank goodness.) The upside is that I’ve had a nagging and very painful shoulder injury and strangely, it seems to be healing with rest. Who knew?

    • Anon

      Honestly, I’ve accepted that I can’t “snap out of this.” Winter is hard. The pandemic is hard. And it’s okay that they are hard. It’s okay that we aren’t feeling normal – it would be absurd to expect everyone to carry on like usual given the circumstances because it just isn’t possible. So I’m letting myself sleep and play on my phone and binge TV and not feel productive.

      • Equestrian Attorney

        +1. I haven’t been working out, I get up late, I haven’t been eating healthy. It’s not great and I’m trying to focus on small improvements, but also accepting that this too shall pass and I’m doing my best given the circumstances.

    • Bonnie Kate

      Agree with above posters to give yourself grace during the winter, during a pandemic, to hibernate. I have a pretty solid habit to workout every day, and January is ALWAYS basically a throwaway month for me.

      I do think since you’re WFH and fighting a mild depression, movement will help. Can you switch when you do workouts? So you don’t workout at your normal time – the morning – but you workout in the evening instead? I’m biased, I hate morning workouts and my life got much much easier when I decided I’d workout after work instead of before and I do not feel guilty at all about not having the “ideal” morning schedule. You can always switch back when you feel like it.

      Also, I switched up my workouts. I was trying to force a workout program that worked well for my friend, but I realized I hated it and therefore wasn’t working out at all. I switched back to Peloton fun workouts and that’s way way easier now.

    • anna

      If your house is clean, you’re sleeping decently, and you’re doing your make up, you’re doing fantastic. I really feel the “just existing and not really living” – like going through the motions to make it through each day.
      I don’t think you have to exercise in the morning, but one thing I’ve been able to do is just go on walks. I tell my self its not exercise (its not that intense) but its just getting fresh air and listening to a music / podcast. It definitely has a positive effect.

      • anon

        This weekend is supposed to get into the 30s. I am very excited to go outdoors and walk again.

        • anon

          Ditto. The sub-zero daytime “highs” are killing me – I have still been walking, but just a mile or two a day instead of my normal 5 or 6 miles. I’m so excited for the higher temps this weekend!!

    • Z

      Are you me? I could have wrote this. I switched jobs and don’t have early morning meetings anymore, so I sleep as late as I can.

    • Shelle

      Right there with you. I bribed myself to work out yesterday by promising myself a winter themed cocktail afterward. Not a good recovery meal but screw it. At this point I’m negotiating with my inner 5 year old! A cocktail reward might not be ideal after a morning workout though ha. But then it might?

    • Anon

      I’ve been allowing myself to hyperfocus on one small aspect of larger issues.

      I’m exhausted and cannot manage to do an entire exercise regimen. Instead, I’ve been keeping dumbbells next to the couch, and faithfully working my triceps every time I watch TV.

      Instead of throwing my hands in the air about the fact that I’m not eating consistently healthy, I’m making sure all the spring mix gets eaten before it starts to get slimy, so I know I’m consuming at least one pound of greens per week.

      Just take little bites instead of worrying about the whole buffet.

  20. fa sd

    I finally got my hair cut after a while and remembered how much easier it is to look polished when your layers look nice. Every so often posters here ask about little tricks to quickly look polished, and the thing that definitely helps me the most is a good hair cut. Because I am very lazy, and it needs to be the definition of wash and go

    • Anonymous

      For me it is brows. I can let my hair go a while, but am religious about brow wax and tint (once our salons opened again). I go to a woman who rents a small studio in a building, works solo, and is even more cautious than me about Covid b/c of family health concerns.

  21. Westin Heavenly Bed

    I don’t recall who was asking about beds recently and queried the Westin Heavenly Bed. They are $500 off at the moment. I bought one recently and I’m happy with it, especially since I didn’t have to go shopping in a pandemic, in a part of the country the majority of people are maskless fools. It’s comfortable, and I’m pretty picky. I’ve done better picking in person, but I’ve also done much worse picking in person. They arranged delivery to my convenience, brought the bed in and put it on the bed frame, and removed the packaging and the old mattress. Mattress removal is no charge, but you have to request it. I can enthusiastically recommend the product and the process, and $500 off is a pretty good deal.

  22. Anonymous

    You guys, I’m so burned out of the pandemic and I think going through a little seasonal depression. I re-started meds, but it’s going to take a bit for them to kick in. In the meantime, I literally do not want to do any work at all and just want to lie in bed and sleep all day. And cry and sit here with the giant knot in my stomach about all the work I’m not doing. I’m fairly tempted to truly quit my job.

    Again, I know this is depression, and I’m taking meds already (started a week ago, so hoping they kick in soon). In the meantime, how do I hobble through the next month or two??? I just want to hide. Married, no kids, husband is worried about me :(

    • Curious

      This sucks. I just called to restart therapy appointments yesterday. Can you do the same?

      I have also restarted doing deep breathing meditations from the meditation podcast and find they are helping me to manage my mood.

    • Bonnie Kate

      Hold onto the fact that this is a temporary feeling. The pandemic and winter feel endless at this point, that is true. But they are not endless, just like these feeling are not endless. You will get through it. You’re already doing awesome by restarting meds. Now just one thing at a time.

      How about you schedule a therapy appointment? It only makes sense – I’m sure if a friend told you that they were really tempted to quit their job and going through some depression, you’d recommend them to talk with someone about it first.

      Also you’re not alone. This is a hard season for so many people.

    • anon

      What is the bare minimum you can do for the next 2-4 weeks while you wait for the medication to kick in? That’s what I would aim for. Give yourself the grace to lay in bed sometimes, but also give yourself the benefit of not being fired in the next few weeks and you can re-evaulate when it’s not the depression talking.

      Lean on things you can do to get you out of your current funk (as much as possible). For me, that’s 10-20 minute walks, hot baths, calling a friend, having a pastry, getting coffee from a local coffee shop, yoga?, etc. That may mean you do 20 minutes of work and reward yourself with a pastry. Survival mode, and know you can do this.

      • Curious

        Yes! “Chuck everything non-essential overboard” is my favorite coping strategy. Sometimes just the adrenaline rush from deleting meetings and saying no for things makes a lasting chemical change for me.

  23. Anonamoose

    I know there is an avid fan base for Peletons, but I would love to hear from anyone that was not into cycling/home exercising that got one and what they think. We weren’t gym people or home exercise people before COVID and generally got our exercise in by doing things outside in the city. We still do those things, but COVID has made them less frequent to where it’s not reliable as our only source of exercise. We’ve also tried home workout videos, but neither of us have gotten into a frequent routine.
    Since we are hitting the one year mark, we’re thinking of ordering a Peleton (but there’s a 2 month waiting list!). Our main concerns are will we actually use it and is it worth the space since we have a small condo. We’ve been try out a friend’s bike, but weather/scheduling has been difficult, so I’d love to get the hive’s thoughts while we wait. TIA!

    • Anonymous

      This is me! Turns out I really hate leaving my house to workout. What sold me was trying the app for a while and I’d recommend that. Obviously a dif experience without the bike but take the stretching and strength classes and you’ll get a good sense of whether the tone works for you. I love that I can hop on, do a 20 minute ride, get my heart rate up and get sweaty, and have fun.

    • Bonnie Kate

      I am one of the avid Peloton fans, and I don’t have the bike or tread. I use the app for the strength, yoga, and sometimes even the cardio classes . I’d recommend signing up today for the app trial and trying out some of the classes you don’t need the big equipment for to get a flavor for the classes and instructors. If you have free weights, Rebecca Kennedy 45 minute full body classes are GOLD.

      • Airplane

        Agree with all of this but dislike Rebecca Kennedy classes instead I recommend robin arzon and Jess sims for 45 min full body weight classes and Olivia Amato for core classes.

    • Ribena

      This is me! I was a morning gym person pre COVID and when I was doing home workouts I was really missing the ‘mindless’ element of jumping on a piece of cardio equipment and just rocking out to my music for half an hour or so. I bought a cheap stationary bike and put the Peloton app on my tablet and I love it. There’s a workout for every mood – I was in a real funk yesterday so I took Sam’s New Year’s Day Recovery Ride again instead of the tough 45 minute workout I had planned, for example.

      I was also doing EMKfit HIIT dance videos but was very self conscious about noise in the building – 130 year old apartment building here!

    • Anonymous

      Do you actually enjoy and look forward to using a stationary bike? The only workout programs that stick for me are those that are genuinely fun, not just ones that I can tolerate, and certainly not ones that are unpleasant. I tried spinning years ago and found it incredibly uncomfortable.

    • anon a mouse

      This is me! I have taken maybe 4 spin classes in my life and every time I wanted to die. And yet I LOVE the Peloton. I realized that the difference is the variety of classes — not just the type but the length. Turns out I am not (yet) built for a 50-minute spin class, but I can do a 20-minute one at high intensity, followed by a 5-minute cool down, and feel great. I also love the stretching and bodyweight strength classes.

      I think one of the reasons it’s so successful is that you can fit it to whatever you have/need — you have 10 minutes? Here’s a 10-minute class. If you want 90 minutes, you can do that too. DH also really likes it which has frankly surprised me, he’s never been a big exercise guy.

      • Leatty

        Same! I’ve had my bike for a month, and I love it. I don’t have much spare time, and it really helps that I can hop on the bike for a 15-20 minute class when I don’t have time for something longer.

        • Daffodil

          +1. I really only went to barre classes pre-Covid, and had only been to a few spin classes ever. I’ve had my bike for 2 months and I love it. As others have said, being able to do a quick 15-20 minute ride is key, and I often tack on a strength or yoga class afterwards.

    • Anon

      This is me. Refused home workouts in the past. I had dabbled in spinning, but maybe 1-2x/week at my boutique gym that offered running and bootcamp/crossfit-style classes. Those were so much more my jam. I was a “go hard for 6 months then don’t work out at all for 6 months” kind of person previously. I tend to be pretty all-or-nothing with fitness.

      That all said, I am 100%, all in, obsessed with my Peloton. I’m overweight, though an athlete at heart – there’s a really strong former athlete hiding under the weight, thanks kids and slowing metabolism and limited free time. I find the classes and instructors so motivating and refreshing. A number of my friends have the bike or app and it’s awesome to stay connected. Seriously, love. It’s my life line through a lot of recent chaos in my life, not even having to do with COVID.

    • Anon

      I’ll be the voice of dissent. I was not a home workout person. We got a Peloton a few years ago when the kids were young and it was hard to leave the house consistently. We used it regularly for maybe the first year, but then our use dropped off as the kids got more mobile and more activities happened. I thought we’d want to restart the app subscription during the pandemic but it hasn’t happened yet. I’m just not motivated to workout at home. We’re likely going to sell ours soon, given the long waitlists hopefully there’s someone nearby who would want it quickly and actually use it. Just need to fully give up on working out at home. :-)

      • MWK

        This is a great observation. Some people (me!) are work out at home people. Some people are not. And once the pandemic is open, Pelatons owned by people who do not like to work out at home are going to be expensive dust catchers.

        OP – one possibility is to buy a much less expensive bike that is smaller and most moveable given your space limitations and either use the Pelaton app or some other app (or just put together a couple of playlists of different lengths). If you like it and use is regularly for a year, you can upgrade and sell the old one. I bought a perfectly respectable bike for $250 rather than commit to a huge and expensive bike I might not use once the pandemic is over.

        • CHL

          Also an Oak Parker! It is so beautiful and I love my neighbors who organized a non stop snowblowing brigade so our sidewalks are pristine!

    • Anon.

      We got ours in November and I have used either the bike or the app every day except 2 since we’ve had it. My husband has missed exactly 1 day. I had tried at home workouts before and it never stuck – I’d use the Beachbody On Demand for a couple weeks and then something would happen and I would fall off the bandwagon. I had literally never taken a spin class in my life before buying the bike.

      Reasons I think it’s different for me: 1) I really enjoy the content – the instructors, the music choices etc do motivate me and there is enough variety of teaching style that I can find what I need that day. 2) The gamification of exercise works well for my personality. I am stupidly motivated to maintain my streak and find the next badge etc.

      I agree with the recommendation to try the app for a couple months to see if you enjoy the off-bike content if you’re hesitant to pull the trigger.

      I cannot speak to longevity – but a few months in I’m feeling very good about the investment. It’s helping both my physical and mental health right now.

    • anon

      Might be a little late, but if you are still reading responses – I am that avid fan who basically worked out zero before. I’d been to a couple of spin classes which I did enjoy, but for me I realized that it was the “class” element that worked. With a regular workout (go to the gym, go for a run) it was so easy to just..not go. And then even if I did get the motivation to do it, there wasn’t really a lot of motivation to keep going (ok I’m tired of running…I’m just going to stop). I think you have to like spin (I know I wouldn’t be successful with the tread, for example), but it has made me into a 5x week exerciser when my entire life it felt like a chore (that I didn’t do that regularly…). Bonus is that it really is fun, and there’s a class length/type/style for everyone and every level.

  24. Anonymous

    Any tips for finding a fancy hotel room in Atlantic City for cheap? Have to take a family member down there for the vaccine and I feel like I’m missing some tips and tricks.

    • NY CPA

      Well I think you can do cheap or you can do fancy. I stayed at the Borgata pre-pandemic and it was definitely the nicest place in the area, and I would recommend. However, it was also the most expensive (although everything is relative and “expensive” rooms in AC are still in the <$200 range, except maybe on Friday/Saturday nights.

  25. Curious

    Just for fun: my takeaway from yesterday’s threadjack from Lilau (baby names!) is that Corporette can definitely name my baby. We don’t have confirmation but suspect it will be a boy, but I want a name that would easily alter to gender neutral or female if the child is trans or genderqueer. We love classic names but husband has a thing about not wanting a single-syllable nickname (e.g., doesn’t like Joseph because of Joe). My favorite option so far is Neil (easily adapted to Nell). Any other ideas?

        • Anon

          Not the person you’re responding to, but last names used as first names (like Ryan, that’s where that name came from) are often good for this. You might look at your family tree to see if there’s a good one. Or if your kids have dad’s surname, maybe your maiden name.

          • Gail the Goldfish

            I had a lot of friends growing up with last-names-as-first-names (it’s kind of a southern thing). Other gender-neutral names in that vein: Grier/Greer, Ashley (now mostly a gir’s name, yes, but I know a few male Ashleys), Madison. And I had old female relatives named Dean and Eddy (pronounced like Eddie, not e-dee)

      • Anonymous

        I thought you were going to say Alexis and Blake, and then I’d have filled it in for you: Krystle, Sammi-Jo, Dominique, Dex, etc.

    • Anon

      Charles or Charlotte, because Charlie is the best name ever for either sex.

      Also names like Sage that are based on things that are neither female nor male (tree and plant names, bodies of water etc). These get pretty hippie pretty fast but only you know where you are on that spectrum. However, I’m the one who suggested botanical names like Ivy and Fern yesterday so I’m about there on the spectrum, not all the way to Rainbow, though.

      Also, to Lilau, I should have mentioned Rosemary , another great botanical name.

      • Anon

        I have a friend with a newborn Charlotte and she hates Charlie as a nickname and it makes me sad! I think it’s adorable. Though of course parents can’t control nicknames for that long, I think friends in school really determine a person’s nickname.

      • Lilau

        Aww thanks! Thanks again to everyone for the ideas yesterday!

        Op, two names from families I know who liked the same name for a boy or girl were drew and Dylan. Both are really nice names, in my opinion. Also, a judge I know named her kids Devin, Morgan and Cameron with the hope that they’d be gender ambiguous. I like all of those names.

        Desmond was a runner up for my little guy’s name and I want someone to use it!

        • Anon

          Lilau I was actually thinking to suggest Devon on your post yesterday.
          I ALSO love the name Desmond and would love for someone to use it.

        • Curious

          I love Desmond and hadn’t thought of it. Naming a child after Desmond Tutu is a win in my book. I’ll see what picky hubby thinks :) Morgan is lovely, as well. Thank you, Lilau!

    • Anon for this

      My sister and I have names that shortened to Alex and Chris. There’s several options for girls names with those, and a couple of boy’s names.

    • Anon

      Just wanted to say it’s really great that you’re thinking about a name that can work for a child no matter their gender identity…it seems most parents are so hung up on BLUE AND TRUCKS for boys and PINK AND PRINCESSES for girls even before birth.

      What about Jamie?

        • The Original ...

          Probably because they are just s3x reveals and really all they are is a party where adults guess about and find out the g3nitalia of a fetus and then ascribe gender norms onto it! Oh, and sometimes they cause forest fires.

      • Anon

        A year and a half ago, when I was pregnant, we chose to find out the sex of our baby (boy). Didn’t really change much about decorations (his nursery is done up in a circus theme), clothes (lean slightly ‘boy,’ because dark blue, but camo/sports squicks me out), or how we raise him. It’s far more important to raise a whole person, who understands his/her own interests, abilities, and limitations, than to pigeonhole the kid and hope that interests align with stereotypes.

    • Anonymous

      I mean, if the kid identifies other than kid’s given name, why go from bland to bland? Either go all out Henrietta / Sharla-Jo / Angelique but don’t use use a name like Taylor that could be anything. Be something, and if it doesn’t fit, let the kid decide to be something else (Jan-Michael).

      • Curious

        I was actually wondering if this was a better tactic! Thanks for sharing this view.

    • The Original ...

      There are reddits and other places where trans and queer people discuss their names, maybe look there for ideas?

      Or just look for gender neutral lists? Carter, Jules, Morgan, and Vaughn may all fit too!

    • Anonymous

      Names ending in -y or -ie are perfect for this kind of thing. Avery, Riley, Finley, Rory, Charley(Charlie), Jamie, Ellie(Elly, Elliot).

    • Anonymous

      You’ve gotten good suggestions. Just here to add:
      Frances
      Jacqueline
      Michael

    • Anonymous

      Cameron is my favorite gender neutral name. Also the world is super gendered these days. Years ago – baby clothes were often in neutral colors so they could be reused. There wasn’t a blue and pink version of every item from baby seats to bottles.

      We’re pretty expressly gender neutral about toys and media. We have twin boys who both love play in muddy puddles, jumping off everything, playing trains and trucks but also ask for doll cribs for Christmas, love Peppa and Dora and pull both princess dresses and pirate costumes from the costume box. Having both a girl and two boys, I can tell you that no one cares if a girl is wearing blue mittens but you will get looks if a boy is wearing pink ones – even if it’s just because they used to belong to his sister who he idolizes. It’s not hard to find a girls tshirt with pink dinos on it, but it is almost impossible to find blue sparkly sneakers or a blue tshirt with unicorns on it for boys. Boden is one of my favorites for fun kids clothes that’s not so gendered.

    • Names

      By the time your kid is old enough, I think we’re going to be back to how things used to be – where girls can like and do whatever they want without being told they’re actually boys and vice versa. I think there will be a lot fewer kids who feel the need to define themselves into a box.

      You could try Tegan, Mackenzie, Carter…

      • Anon

        I work on diversity and inclusion as a volunteer and I have been corrected about your line of thought, which I shared. I thought, if we were less binary in gender roles, we wouldn’t have gender issues to the degree we have. But I have learned from people who know a lot more than I do that gender is something more innate than being a person with boy parts who wants to play with dolls.

        • Names

          I thoroughly, 100% disagree. The entire system is socially constructed and designed to oppress women – it’s not “innate.” I understand that that is not a popular viewpoint nowadays, but acting like social models that prioritize stereotypically male behaviors and denigrate stereotypically female behaviors is natural/innate is a huge step backwards for feminism. We need to abolish stereotypes, not enshrine them.

          • Anon

            I think both things can be true, and I trust the trans people I work with on diversity and inclusion to be the experts on this.

            I also don’t like hard-line “100% disagree” stances on something so nuanced. I admit I have more to learn, and I think some humility here serves us all well.

          • Names

            I think it’s good to be open to learning, but it’s also OK to have stronger opinions. I have done a lot of research on this over many years and I feel confident in my opinions as a result. I don’t hold them because I’m unfamiliar with the issues or because I’m scared of change – I have in fact seen a lot of evolution in my views over time as more evidence has become available! I believe in what I think is correct, I haven’t arrived at a strong opinion lightly, and I respect your right to do the same.

      • The Original ...

        This isn’t about girls being allowed to play with trucks, this is about trans people who are actually dealing with dysphoria. Totally different. That said, I agree with the sentiment and I also hope everyone is someday soon allowed to be themselves without societal pressures!

        • Anon

          I know. I used a very simplified gender role example. It’s just that it goes beyond roles. Some people feel innately different than their assigned gender, and do so from the earliest age they remember. I understand that in my own context, as I am a cis woman and I have always felt innately like a woman, whether it was people forcing a role on me or not. The idea of feeling like a male is so foreign to me, I can’t imagine it. Through that lens, I can imagine if I were born with male genitals but felt like I do innately how very difficult that would be.

          We are all learning about this. I’m middle aged. One of my same aged friends was telling me that our kids are having to educate us on gender issues just like we had to educate our parents on sexual orientation issues. I have always believed that being LGBTQ+ was not a choice, but the way you are born. As I have learned more about gender, I think it’s the same. I continue to learn.

          I have more thoughts about gender specific spaces and gender reassignment surgery, but I feel I still need to evolve on that.

    • Anonymous

      My mother was going to be a John, after her grandfather. But she was a girl. John –> Jean in French –> Jeanne is the feminine version

    • Clementine

      Nolan for a boy, easily changed to Nola for a girl.

      (FWIW – most friends I have who transitioned or identify as something than other their birth assigned gender made a conscious choice to choose a new name, even if their previous name could be considered to be gender neutral or had an opposite gendered variation. For example, George didn’t change her name to Georgia… George became Anna.)

      • Curious

        Thanks! Yes, I’ve seen lots of patterns (totally new names, like Josh becoming Wendy, or small changes like Mila becoming Miles, and also Alex staying Alex). I think it’s probably pretty personal to the kid but figured we should at least keep it in mind.

      • pugsnbourbon

        My wife’s case was similar. She chose a new first name and uses her birth name as a middle name.

      • Seventh Sister

        Very small sample, but the friends of mine who have transitioned have picked names that aren’t related to the name they were given at birth. Several picked new names that were gender neutral, but at least half picked names that were not (e.g., Francis became Madeleine).

    • Anon

      William can become Billie or Willow if you want to keep related name options. But honestly I think that if I was going to rename myself, I’d maybe want to pick something special that may not even sound like my original name.

  26. Leatty

    Tips for eating healthy when you have limited time? DH was recently diagnosed with diabetes, and we both need to eat better and lose weight. We have busy jobs and two small children (an infant and a preschooler), so we don’t exactly have the time and energy to cook every night.

    • Curious

      Are you able to throw money at the problem? Our tactics recently have included prepared salads from Whole Foods and meal kits from a local healthy restaurant that launched meal kits as a recent stream to make up for income lost in the pandemic.

    • Anonymous

      See a nutritionist- your insurance probably covers it. “Healthy” is a big amorphous goal. Get specifics of what his condition actually requires.

      For limited time, meal prep and routine. Cooking every night is way too hard. But spending time planning and prepping Sunday helps, as does having go to meals.

    • anon

      Think simple (not tons of ingredients) and healthy. We lean in hard to having a protein, a veggie, and a starch/grain. Having a formula takes the guesswork out of it. Doing some meal prep on the weekend is helpful, but I don’t go crazy with it. One hour is good enough. I usually cut up some veggies, which is the biggest time sink; boil some eggs for breakfasts/snacks; and sometimes make a baked oatmeal that can be reheated in the morning. If that seems like too much, there’s nothing wrong with relying on pre-cut fruits and veggies from the grocery store. And, get your partner involved however you can. I do more of the “winter cooking,” but he does a lot of grilling when the weather is better. Take turns watching the kids while the other cooks.

      We’re at our best when we plan four dinners for the week. That way if something comes up, we haven’t over-bought. I plan leftovers and “easy” nights, and don’t expect myself to cook something brand-new every time.

      What types of meals are you doing now? Can they be modified to be healthier? Would simply adding more fruits and veggies go a long way? I do think it would be helpful to meet with a dietician to get ideas and figure out what your priorities are.

      • Bon

        Do you have a good baked oatmeal recipe to share? I’ve been making the “healthy breakfast cookies” from a Family Fresh Meals recipe but could use some variety. Hoping for something with little sugar/flour.

        • anon

          Not OP, but a completely flour-free baked oatmeal is Budget Bytes. Specifically, I love the Banana Bread Baked Oatmeal, but there’s a bunch of them (peanut butter brownie, pumpkin pie, apple cherry, etc). They also don’t use a ton of sugar (1/3 – 1/4 cup) for 6 servings.

        • anon

          I like the one from Sally’s Baking Addiction. I use honey instead of maple syrup, though. One bowl, super easy.

    • Anon

      Do you have a few quick and easy healthy default meals?

      I make a number of scratch soups that only take as long as it takes to throw everything in a pot and heat through – using chopped frozen veggies/potatoes is a HUGE time saver.

      I also give myself permission to ignore extra steps in recipes, like sauteing onions before adding them to spaghetti sauce, for example. It’s a weeknight and I’m not a chef and I just need dinner on the table, ya know?

      For example, this soup sounds like a big undertaking, but with frozen veggies and store-bought bacon crumbles, it’s ready in minutes on the stove top. https://www.tasteofhome.com/recipes/hearty-manhattan-clam-chowder/

      And this slow cooker pot roast is great with instant mashed potatoes. https://www.tasteofhome.com/recipes/slow-cooker-pot-roast/ I like these instant baby reds – they fooled my husband’s grandmother who thought they were the real deal! https://idahoan.com/products/baby-reds-flavored-mashed-potatoes/

    • Anon

      The Fresh Market meal kits take about 20 minutes and some of them are pretty healthy.

    • Anon

      Read the Obesity Code before trying any diet. After reading the book, I found that works best for me is on work days skipping breakfast, eating between 11 and 1 pm (and I don’t really limit what I eat much in those hours, but aim to stop when full.) Then I eat again between 4 and 8. Same deal. The goal is that I have 4 hours between meals with no snacks to keep my body from producing more insulin.

      I also already eat low carb.

      On the weekends I tend to have a big breakfast instead and skip lunch.

      I also make exceptions for special occasions.

    • Anon

      Low carb is what makes it easy for me. Otherwise it’s a lot of fuss trying to figure out what does and doesn’t spike blood sugar and testing blood glucose all the time.

    • Anon

      I would check locally (maybe on parenting FB groups) to look for places that do bake at home meals or chefs that deliver. In my area we have a couple places that sell frozen home cooked meals (including one hotel now) but there’s also been a trend where underemployed chefs have started planning a weekly menu that you can order those types of meals from. They’re not crazy expensive or anything either. Some are not healthy but most are well-balanced meals.

  27. SSJD

    Need some clock recs and you guys have served me well in the past:

    My 9 year old daughter needs an alarm clock. She requested a “unicorn” alarm clock. Any ideas? Suggestions? Warnings? Will a 9 year old soon outgrow something unicorn-themed? (Seems better for a 6 year old.)

    We need a couple digital alarm clocks for guest rooms. (I know people have phones, but I like to provide a clock in a guest room.) Any suggestions?

  28. Anonymous

    Family in Fairfax County VA is old enough to get the vaccine but “no one has contacted them about it.” My guess is that they should be reaching out to the big hospitals (INOVA, etc.) and the county office on aging and their doctors with a hard press for a couple of days to get an appointment and then they will probably get an appointment. They are 80+ (but drive). I think they were expecting the shot fairy to just come to them and if that hasn’t happened yet, but best hustle and get busy on the computer and calling (maybe also Walgreens, CVS, etc.). I am familiar with the area but don’t live there.

  29. ANon

    I’ve discovered I have been p0isoning myself without realizing it- with mayo. I hadn’t realized (or thought to look) that H3llman’s is soy based and my body does not handle soy well at all (migraines, other hormone stuff). Went off mayo for a few weeks, no migraines, had some yesterday thinking I was probably wrong, migraine all night. I tried a soyfree amazon brand (365) but it tasted like salad dressing rather than H3llman’s. Any recommendations for something soy-free and not salad dressing flavor?

    Also, Entenmann’s are out due to soy preservatives and soy flour in most or all items- major bummer. Cheap dessert was such a luxury!

    • anon

      Can you make your own? It’s super easy, especially if you have an immersion blender.

    • Anonymous

      Sir Kensington’s avocado oil mayo is good, but pricey. For pretty much everything other than sandwiches (pasta salad, salad dressing, chicken salad), you can replace mayo with full-fat Greek yogurt or mashed avocado. Much healthier and more delicious.

    • Anon

      I’m kind of a die hard Hellman’s / Best Foods Original person, but their Canola Oil version is pretty, pretty, pretty good.

    • Senior Attorney

      Trader Joe’s mayo is basically just canola oil and eggs, and as a bonus it’s sugar free.

    • Clementine

      Anything saying it’s whole 30 compliant will not have soy as a quick hack.

  30. Anon for this

    Almost 40, single, no kids (both probably forever). After earning very little for my 20s and most of my 30s (due to medical things, being in school, and a chronic illness), I now earn about 50k per year with hopes of increasing it to closer to 80k in about 2 years when I finish my degree in progress. However, no amount of income is currently guaranteed and the job market is tough in my area, so I could be lesser employed or unemployed or overemployed at any time, with little or no warning. My monthly expenses are about 2500 per month.

    I had a couple of good years and cut costs way back to bulk up my savings. As such, I have a Roth (which means I can only put 6k in per year) which has about 60k in it. I have been squirreling money in my savings account which now has about 80k in it.

    I can contribute 12k for 2020 and 2021 but should I be doing something with the rest so it isn’t just sitting in my checking account or is it smarter to keep it where it is not at risk?

    Any other recommendations?

    • Bonnie Kate

      Do you have a high deductible health care plan? If you do, max out your HSA. It’s tax free money that stays forever in the account, and once you’re 65 you can take it out for anything. Also you can pay out of pocket for health care expenses and save receipts, and when you want to take out the money you can reimburse yourself for those past health care expenses.

    • Curious

      Congratulations! Holy cow. I would keep 6 months expenses in cash in a high-yield savings account (though yields are admittedly low right now) and then invest the rest. Start simple and cheap — maybe a Vanguard target date retirement fund. Seeing my money grow there helped me get more comfortable with the idea of investing and eventually diversify a bit (the target date funds are less global than I prefer). Congratulations and best of luck!!

    • Anonymous

      I think the rule of thumb is to have 6 month expenses in cash or CDs that you can access over time. If your condition may land you in a LTC facility, and you can obtain it through work without a physical, I would consider LTC insurance. If not, invest the rest in taxable accounts and consider it your LTC fund.

    • Anon for this

      First of all, having that much saved on a relatively limited salary is amazing. Go you!
      Having $80K in a savings account is 32 months of expenses, which is a lot. Most people say keep 6 months as an emergency fund. In your case, I might up it to 12 months given the uncertainty in the job market. The rest of the money, you should probably invest. Stick with low-fee ETFs that track the market. You should have some blend of stock investments and bond investments– I have money in a Vanguard target retirement date fund (determines expected retirement date based on my age) so it takes the guess work out of everything.
      Can you access a 401k through your employer? That has a $19.5K limit.

    • Anon personal finance

      In your shoes, I’d probably keep a really long runway of expenses readily available for emergencies, though I’m in a field where it can be hard to find a new job. Not all of it needs to be accessible immediately, though. One strategy is laddering CDs, so you can take advantage of higher interest rates for longer maturities.

      I’d also look into whether it made sense to use a traditional IRA/401k rather than a Roth for new contributions based on my specific circumstances. If you’re expecting your income in retirement to be less than your income now, it may make sense to defer income taxes and let that money grow tax-free until retirement.

  31. Cardiology problems

    I’m the person who posted about possible CNS fatigue last week — I’ve also started feeling faint during exercise. Called doc, we’re doing bloodwork (thyroid electrolytes etc). I also realized my resting heartrate is 54 bpm according to Apple Watch 7 day average. It’s likely I’ll be seeing a cardiologist.

    Anyone have any familiarity with cardiology tests? Trying to avoid unnecessary doctor appointments and unclear tests — what should I be advocating for for myself? Avoid tilt table?

    • Anon

      I have a cardiac issue (paroxysmal SVT) that is not the same as yours but finding a great cardiologist is my advice for all issues. Look at recommendations, ask people you know to ask people they know. Find a great clinic, even if it means waiting longer for an appointment. The last thing you want is a bad cardiologist!

      I see an electrophysiologist and prepare myself for appointments by reading the latest academic papers, or at least the summary, for my specific condition. Stay away from online boards and stick to the academic stuff. Steel yourself to read about mortality and not take it too personally.

      If you’re in the bay area, Stanford is the way to go for cardiac issues. They have offices all over, so you don’t always have to go to the peninsula. I was able to have my ablation surgery in Walnut Creek with a Stanford doc.

    • Anon

      One step at a time. A 54 bpm doesn’t necessarily mean anything is wrong. I have a very low bpm (45) and I don’t exercise excessively (4 times per week) although I run about 5 to 6 miles at a time.

    • Anon

      Tilt table clarified a lot of things for me, so I’m not sure why you’d avoid it. I would expect them to prescribe a medical heart rate monitor for you to wear for a few weeks so they can see what’s going on with a medically approved device. For me they also did an echocardiogram. I honestly wouldn’t try to pare down on testing when the testing is to rule out cardiological issues, unless you’ve had a cardiological workup before in your life.

  32. Anon

    I have my 2020 year-end performance review this afternoon. I have anxiety and my stomach is in knots today. I know it’s not going to be horrible, but it’s not going to be amazing either (like my 2019 review). I’m expecting an average review, and I’m already disappointed in myself. Last year was so hard, and I know that my work suffered. We worked from home the whole year and I know I did a lot of sitting around, depressed and unable to concentrate. I’m just dreading this conversation.

    • Anon

      When I am dreading something like this, I tend to tell myself two things – I can’t change it now, and by 3:00 (or whatever time) it will be over. Good luck and update us!

      • Bon

        Yes, maybe focus on your goals for next year & try to be enthusiastic about them.

  33. Anon

    My son is Everett which I think could be used as a feminine name if you really wanted to… Everette or the traditional spelling. Could even go with variations of Eve, Evie, etc

  34. Anon

    I may end up reposting on the afternoon thread, but please hit me with your best tips for cooking with frozen veggies. They are just the time saver I need right now, but I always get mushy dreadful results (and! I’m an experienced cook I swear). Tonight I want to try to make green curry but with frozen broccoli and frozen green beans. I’m worried if I add them frozen straight into the curry they’ll make it watery, so was going to microwave/sautee them to desired doneness and then add right at the end. What would you do? Any other general tips for making frozen veg delish?

    • Anon

      Add them frozen to the curry toward the end. Most modern frozen veg don’t have a lot of extra water so you’ll be fine. I do this all the time.

      Peas, including green peas and blackeyed peas, and corn are the best frozen veg in my experience. Fresh baby spinach lasts well in the fridge and can be added to anything if you need to use it up, so I don’t go frozen for that.

      • Marie

        I like using frozen vegetables in soups, chicken pot pie, and in casseroles.

        If you are looking for an interesting twist on chicken pot pie, I like to make it using roasted Classico red pepper alfredo sauce instead of chicken gravy.

        Also, easiest casserole of my life: https://www.spendwithpennies.com/chicken-stuffing-casserole/ Personal modifications are that I leave out the sour cream and replace with milk and that I sprinkle cheddar or pepper jack cheese between the chicken/soup/veggies bottom layer mixture and the top layer of stuffing. Not going to tell you that this is the healthiest recipe, but it is delicious, fast, and family friendly.

    • Senior Attorney

      Believe it or not, you can roast frozen vegetables. I have only done it with string beans, but I don’t know why you couldn’t do carrots or Brussels sprouts or whatever.

      I think your plan for adding your veg to the curry sounds good.

  35. Anon

    Add them straight to the curry when it’s almost done and heat until thawed. To be honest, though, I’m rarely happy with frozen broccoli or green beans because they are always too mushy. I cook a lot with frozen spinach, corn, and peas, and use a lot of frozen fruit, but that’s it. Fresh broccoli lasts for a decently long time in the fridge, and then another week or so after roasting, and is just much better than frozen.

  36. Madison Abigail Jones

    Just in case you haven’t already had your review…I delivered reviews for the first time this year and our overwhelming approach was kindness. We know 2020 was a tough year and everyone was doing the best they could. It didn’t mean that we didn’t discuss opportunities for growth, it meant that we acknowledged that there was so much going on that might have impacted where you have room to grow this year. Even the reviews for people with lower performance ratings were really gentle because there’s just no reason to pile on people as long as they did their best in their circumstances. This isn’t forever, and there’s no reason to evaluate people like this is the forever normal. (This is at a biglaw firm in a very busy group, too, so I’m hoping your team also led with compassion.) Whatever the result, celebrate that your review is over and you don’t have to fret anymore.

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